Today In Parliament
Posted on
June 13, 2018 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
What happened at PMQs this afternoon:
As you can see, the Speaker offers Ian Blackford MP, who was protesting about last night’s silencing of Scottish MPs, a choice of when to hold a vote under Parliamentary standing orders, but then improperly refuses his choice and orders Blackford from the chamber, at which point the rest of the SNP’s MPs followed him.
(Full 8m 41s version below.)
Finally we seem to standing up to this travesty of democracy.
We are now in a tory dictatorship that has no respect for the constituent parts that make up the UK.
The question is what now?
Do they return and keep fighting this injustice or just come home and call a referendum?
We live in interesting times.
This is just the beginning I’d say.
Summer’s going to be toasty right enough.
And so it continues…..Westminster continues to sideline and diminish Scottish participation in parliament….Time for that referendum I think.
It is quite clear to me who should have been evicted from the House of Commons today … and it was NOT Ian Blackford!
What an utter disgrace the Speaker is over this matter.
Ian Blackford was quite right in asking for an IMMEDIATE vote in the chamber and the Speaker even offered him that particular choice!
https://twitter.com/DougChapmanSNP/status/1006880660714393600
Speaker: “Ye’ll have had your 15 minutes, then…?”
What a travesty of democracy. The game’s up. Westminster isn’t worth a wet fart.
No more Mr. Nice SNP. They should hinder and obstruct everything in WM from now on.
@X_Sticks
I believe they have to stay.
See here
https://twitter.com/RobynLStewart/status/1006643647981506561
Part of me wants them to keep walking and just come home. This is crisis point and we need to make it clear to every right thinking person exactly what is going down.
They should do this every day in parliament. Doing that may make the press report the power grab properly.
The Tory bullies. Notice the little squealer in the front handing Bercow the documents. All ready and available. Mundell smirking in the background.
Total chaos. They actually voted for people not to have a vote on any Brexit ‘deal’. Corruption and abuse of power.
Consider this…
https://twitter.com/HelenArmet/status/1006835530577973248/photo/1
Use the Law!
@Nana
Yes. I suspect they will too. Though I doubt Westminster will welcome the news. A point was made today and PMQs disrupted. That won’t be the last point made either.
He only asked them to wait until PMQ’S was finished, it was hardly an unreasonable request.
SNP must build on this. Please, DO NOT go back in to the House tomorrow. Be strong, not weak.
Make demands, issue ultimatums,… this is the beginning of the end. Make the asking price of returning to Westminster a price that Westminster won’t dare pay.
“He only asked them to wait until PMQ’S was finished, it was hardly an unreasonable request.”
What matters is that it was an improper request. Standing orders clearly stipulate that if sought by a member, the vote must be held “forthwith”, which means “immediately”, not “in a while, when I feel like it”.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmproced/188/18808.htm
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/forthwith
Lol Dave, epic fail mate.
Brewer trying to kid on he did not know one of the Tories shouted ‘suicide’ at the SNP. Supposed to be a political commentator. Pathetic.
Given that it is obvious that our WM Tory Dictators are set on at least emasculating Holyrood and at worst destroying devolution completely can I suggest that now that the gloves are off Ian Blackford aand his fellow members do everything possible to continually disrupt procedings at WM both by using its traditonal procedures and if necessary by using what can be termed mischievous non-traditional behaviour.
@Macart
Disruptions are what’s needed, certainly gets the attention of the media even though they spin everything into snpbaad. If what I’m seeing online right now is anything to go by, the population are waking up.
It was a wise winger who said “let the Tories do the heavy lifting for us” 🙂 and that’s exactly what they are doing.
A wee message from Lesley Riddoch watching events from Iceland
https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1006889520871235584
laura bbcdp defended the amount of time scottish mps had yesterday to debate Scottish devo Brexit
said ” 9 interventions was reasonable”
my jaw dropped
The Speaker screwed up. We all make mistakes. I trust he will apologise before the day is over.
“Order, order”
Looking forward to the day it is ‘last orders’
FMQs should be good tomorrow. I expect Wee Willie Rennie to have a fight on his hands to hold-onto his Holyrood Village Idiot title as the contenders: Small Dick Leonard, Mad Murdo WTP Fraser, the Jackson One, James Kelly, Annie Wells, Big Jacqui, Alex Cole Blimey and of course, Colonel Yadaftie line-up for a go.
My money is still on an angry Nippy Sweetie seeing them all off – again.
Angela Eagle wanting Ian Blackford’s pay docked. She supported the illegal wars and Trident. Causing the worst migration crisis in Europe leading to Brexit. Westminster is a shambles.A Scottish LibDem MP who votes for Wales. What the heck.
I wont be holding my breath for people in Scotland to wake up and smell the coffee. The hard work still lays ahead.
Stand by for media stranglehold and inevitable SNPbad stories.
Lesley Laird. Waste of space. What the feck a LibDem voted for Wales. Christine Jardine. Useless. Labour says they should not let the Tories off the hook. They abstain or support them at every opportunity.
David, using the word “only” in your comment does not diminish what happened in the HoC today. Also the SNP we’re not “asked” to wait until the end of PMQs
Is that the “Shovel-faced!” Angela Eagle?
should read “were” not we’re
Just possible that I will see this through two thoughts on recent events, 1. suicide is that all on lonesome, murder suicide, strap a bomb suicide, machine gun suicide which one was he advocating and 2. Can Hollyrood be disolved and an election called. Sorry if I have upset anyone ref item 1 but it is a genuine thought.
Don’t get mad—get even. Every tactic in the book and beyond to disrupt Westminster. That is the way.
Did you notice that the whole tone and facial expressions of the MP’s changed ,especially the Tory front bench when the SNP walked out.? It was very noticeable indeed.
Also ,they did the classic trying to hide their embarrassment and confusion by trying to make jokes about it. They are worried. If you check you will find the Tory Chief Whip has issued a three line whip to ensure Tories are available to vote in case of opposition actions. This means the SNP.
They cannot handle disruption ,especially when it makes them look bad,
Reminds me of the scene is Star wars III Revenge of the Sith where Senator Palpatine turns the Senate into the Empire, Bercow was Senator Palpatines doppelganger, Scottish Mps and MSPS only have one choice now to prevent Holyrood from becoming the vaunted parish council that unionist commentators called it in comments pages all over MSM back in 2014. Rip up that piece of shit they call the Act of Union and dissolve the union, no it’s and no buts, it has as much truth as the vow did
Baillie. Dugdale told people to vote Tory. Labour have abstained or supported the Tories. Corbyn is useless. Lie after lie. The Tory thinks it’s funny.
Now SNP need to abandon WM conventions like pairing to bring the place grinding to a halt. They don’t need to break written rules, just stop sticking to silly traditions.
Kurdish women sentanced to 50 lashes by Iranian court for suppporting last years indy ref for Kurdistan.
Looks like Ian Blackford knows the Westminster procedures better than bully Bercow.
Fluffy Mundell should be treated how the Lady Grange was back in 1732 when she threatened her Jacobite supporting husband of being uncovered when he refused to leave his lover, except replace St Kilda with Flannen Isles as to many visitors would find him too fast in Village Bay, and off topic, met a fellow Winger fae Dundee on the passenger vessel I skipper out to Hirta last week, had a great crack on the voyage out. And back
Remember Alex Salmond managed to stall the budget reading one year?
We need some more disruption of that magnitude.
Gloves off. Popcorn ready. 🙂
Yoons be raging…stunt..stunt…I hear them cry…..ah but suddenly ….and not before time….oxygen is being given to the SNP’s argument re power grab.
The yoons are in Corporal Jones ‘Don’t panic…Don’t panic’ mode as SNP are trending and thus giving SNP MP’s many opportunities on MSM platform for them to tell the sorry tale of last night’s non debate on Devolution….with no unionist spin or omissions…the yoons be like crazy…..they be like….Nooooooooooooo we do not want the truth to be publicised…..
Eaun Mccolm….he be mad….wahahaha…shoe on other foot Euan…you ain’t in charge of this one…..truth will out etc etc .
This is rather delicious….I mean before walk out there was nada …zilch….a drought…..of information and significance given to this power grab by MSM…..well now let’s get facts out and especially please Fluffy’s part in this great betrayal….a betrayal backed by ALL BT parties last night at WM……also highlights piss on tap spewed by Gordie Broon…Devo max my a**e.
“Now is the time” that SNP showed some u know what……need to keep up the momentum…..now over to you BBC Rep Scot and Scotland Tonight…..hold…hold… hold… on negative spin cause your credibility just might be challenged by some of the people who actually believed, before today, that you were impartial…yeh I mean where the fcuk have you been all this time….the ‘Scottish’ news to be taken with a pinch of salt hmmm.
Im surprised anyone here still believes in the Westminster circus show.
Dissolution of the Union and UDI now …. we will never be equal partners in the UK
Why have Pete Wishart, Stewart Hosie and Stephen Gethins gone back into the chamber? Surely they could have sat on their egos just for a day.
It’s strange that yesterday and earlier today everybody here was more than a wee bit upset….even incediary (myself for one) but there seems to be a change in the wind. Now we seem to be saying well hell mend westminster, they are bringing this on themselves and we will exploit it.
This is good because there can be no Wingers who ever doubted the power grab would happen……it hardly came as a shock to us.
So, lets use the fact that the government and westminster elite are making these mistakes (I believe in panic).
It’s kind of the equivalent of the old “I spy strangers”.
Bob Mack @3:11 pm
You wrote: “They cannot handle disruption ,especially when it makes them look bad,”
Agreed but there is more. They (the Tory Government) also will find it very, very hard to cope with well planned and executed disruption in the HoC, even within the rules of the House.
Remember: they need the DUP for a certain majority, a DUP that may well smell an opportunity for greater leverage from a weak government; they have fractious backbenches and Cabinet; a nuisance game of pingpong with the HoL; a very busy programme both within the HoC and in negotiations, all on Brexit; plus rapidly approaching Brexit deadlines; and now a bubbling constitutional crisis over Scotland. Plus all the other known stuff and ‘events’ that may arise.
If there was ever a few months to stress test the arcane Westminster system and this Tory government to braking point, the coming months must surely be it. No wonder they will hold to ‘now is not the time’ for an IndyRef2!
(What a pity that the people of England lack an effective official opposition to the Tories.)
Clapper57 @ 15:22,
Indeed, a sorry but necessary lesson to be learnt. Be nice (like yesterday) and be ignored. Get stroppy (like today) and get attention.
Much more of the latter, please. Bring all the trouble right to where it truly belongs, Westminster.
Guerilla tactics from now on. Wreck the joint. Give it out instead of taking it. Stay, make them truly regret it, and get the English to really wish us gone from their little talking shop.
And now children – Today’s word is Stunt.
From the moment Ian Blackford and his MPs left the chamber we have been subjected to a media torrent of ‘Stunt’diaorrhea starting with The Daily Politics, New Bulletins and and now as I watch it Politics Scotland.
I wish I had started to count how many times Brewer used the word and then we had 3 out of 4 female MPs spouting it continuously on College Green followed by Toodleoo at Holyrood with gorgeous pouting Jackie Baillie and some Tory doing the same.
And we still have the evening news bulletins and the late night political programs to go.
Some sort of world record must be in the process of being set for the mis-use of a word.
They are in the Chambers because that’s their job.
Now it was just a stunt. The unionists were going to do this and going to do that. They do absolutely nothing at all. Just cause absolute chaos.
Hearing there could be a debate on devolution tomorrow?
Action speaks louder than words eh ? Perhaps they now realise how damaging their actions and arrogance were potentially.
At last the Scottish elephant in the room gets noticed. Shoo! Shoo! You awkward beast!
Today proves the union does not work. Regardless of how many SNP MPs we send to Westminster they will be out voted 10 to 1. The Unionists control the HofL, the legal systems final determination is under their control, the media serves them, they dominate the civil service and the treasury, The so called independence of the Bank of England is a farce.
What other nation in the World wo accept this insulting treatment day after day.
Clapper: “oxygen is being given to the SNP’s argument re power grab.”
Yes, it is. And some of us have been arguing that the more instability and upheaval the SNP cause in regards to the injustices of Brexit and other issues (such as the “not at this time” insult), the better.
I understand the ‘gently gently’ approach that the SNP tends towards, but when the MSM and anti-SNP politcians are rigging the whole debate it makes no sense at all to tiptoe nicely.
And if it is now official that we are in the middle of a constitutional crisis, as Blackford said, then that’s great. Better a constitutional crisis that another slap in the face.
You know, one of the reasons nobody wants to upset the DUP and people like that is because they know that DUP voters would cause mayhem if they were disrespected the way we have been.
It’s time for all of us to reconsider our approach to the way Westminster, the Media, and others have treated us of late and if that means acting like DUP crackpots and taking matters into our own hands then what have we got to lose?
The SNP should be looking to call a day of national protests and a strike — if the 45% go on strike for a few days, I guarantee Westminster will change its tune and there’d be no shortage of oxygen.
Anyone who has studied civil liberty struggles in history will know that you need to create momentum through action. Pandering to these morons, their rigged media narratives, polls, and procedures will get us nowhere.
ScotsRenewables @ 3:34 pm
You write: “Why have Pete Wishart, Stewart Hosie and Stephen Gethins gone back into the chamber? Surely they could have sat on their egos just for a day.”
Perhaps all part of plan to max out on the media attention? This is from Robert Peston on Twitter c. 10 minutes ago:
“Absolute uproar from government benches when SNP’s @StephenGethins speaks in EU Withdrawal debate, after mass SNP walkout during #PMQs. Frankly not great look for Commons. Tory MPs doing SNP a huge favour.”
All good – achieved huge media profile from walk out; selected few return to contribute to the debate (doing their job) and to cap it all then getting more media attention because of the antics from the Tory benches. Win, win, win!
Ian was asked by the yoon
Are ye just no gonnae “sit doon”
He’d asked for a motion tae be pit
And the speaker sez ‘naw, gaun, git’
The troops awe decided tae walk oot
Getting pelters, but no gein a toot
We’re no an Ian , we’re a we
It’s a good day cos we made the BBC.
And poor Nicola had a rough day
The ITV caused much dismay
The UK is in a right mess eh!
And they’d the cheek to talk about Nessie
She shoulda been polite an sed feckit
Why don’t ye ask aboot smash n grab Brexit
Bit Nicola n ian are there for the kill
Determined to carry the Scottish will.
Just had an email from Nicola with the subject ‘Enough is Enough’
I opened it eagerly expecting a call to arms, but instead it was a request to sign a petition. Yet another bloody petition!
It is time for a little more than that. I repeat my question of earlier, why did Wishart, Gethinhs and Hosie return to the chamber?
ScotsRenewables at 3:34
Because the Tories and the Speaker will be shiting themselves waiting for the next ‘stunt’ to be pulled on them.
stewartb says:
13 June, 2018 at 3:52 pm
Perhaps all part of plan to max out on the media attention? This is from Robert Peston on Twitter c. 10 minutes ago:
OK, good answer.
OK stewartb & GrahamB
Good answers
I know one message that gets through…a 100,000 at bannockburn. I keep being told that it is useless to March. I strongly disagree. A unity of support surrounded by like minded souls lifts me and that is how to build momentum.
I look forward to a clear message under one banner 🙂
Bob @ 15:49:
Yup, although I hope this will not be taken by the SNP for the tokenism that it is and not a reason to go ‘they gave us a debate, so kind, now let’s fall silent again’.
Sorry… ‘WILL be taken for the tokenism that it is’!
Start playing by Irish rules as in days of yore , filibuster and contempt is now the way forward for Scottish MP’s in Westminster.
To be a Scottish independentist is to be a ‘revolutionary subversive’. Wear the label with pride. The British state was never our country. Our democracy was never its democracy. Adieu Britannia!
…Henceforth, gob for hire & all round careerist Jo Swinson should be referred to as the theoretical MP for East Dumbartonshire.
That is all…
BBC Radio 4 News at 3.00 0’clock:- Ian Blackford was ‘thrown out’ of the House.
The plummy of plummy BBC Radio outfits resorts to Daily Star vocabulary.
Drip drip drip framing. He had to be ‘thrown out’ did he?
No more Mr and Mrs Nice Guy.
Bercow wore a patronising smirk throughout. Troublesome Scots indeed.
The firing gun was fired today.
Its an absolute affront to democracy what the Tories and the speaker did at Westminster.
Though none of us should be surprised given what’s happened in the past
Maybe it will finally sink into skulls of those voters in Scotland who continue to support the Westminster British nationalist parties, that their votes don’t matter and that Westminster cares even less about their opinions too.
As for those weasels (apologies to Weasels) in the Labour party in Scotland, let there be no hiding place for them given their role in better together with the Tories and the so called vow.
Hopefully we will now see HQ will take the gloves off.
Well done the SNP MPs
What a message….. They certainly let Scotland see,a bit of the Westminster shit that the media don’t report!
I’m hoping for more of the same.
The message is clearly “we behaved, because of the 2014 vote, till they messed with Holyrood”.
Now we mess with Westminster and Scotland can watch till we’ve had enough!
Just wondering how much disruption they could cause ( live on TV too)to the working of Westminster, enough to hold up Brexit?
They’re already down to the wire with it…and we have a get out…
Bercow pulled the stunt. Told Ian Blackford to go. Westminster is a total shambles. Corruption and abuse.
ScotsRenewables said at 3:34 pm:
“Why have Pete Wishart, Stewart Hosie and Stephen Gethins gone back into the chamber? Surely they could have sat on their egos just for a day.”
They probably have Questions and Amendments in today’s debate sent into the Speaker’s Office.
i don’t have time to check.
I look forward to the day when we have NO Scottish MPs in Westminster.
For the record it took the events of Easter 1916 to kickstart the languishing cause of Irish independence. No more ‘nice guy’.
Looking at the footage again…
There was nae bowing to the Mace as they left either…
They walked out like citizens no subjects…
Dear any SNP MP/MSP or any Indy supporting individual
Note if interviewed today by ANYONE in MSM and they have audacity to give validity to any weak points made today by Ruth D then :
HIGHLIGHT that NOTHING..NADA…ZILCH…was mentioned by her last night re the great Scottish betrayal courtesy of HER party at WM….also she tweeted a LIE today…now being deleted by some journalists who retweeted it….mention that PLEASE.
Oh and same goes for Willie and Richard…who obvs had other plans last night.
Oh and if ‘stunt’ mentioned …advise them biggest stunt pulled off by Tories last night together with BT partners aka Scottish Labour , Scottish Lib Dem and Scottish Tory MP’s.
I am but one voice but get the feeling many would feel same.
Stay STRONG and STABLE as you are representing the MANY not just the FEW.
ps. Don’t forget to call for Fluffy’s resignation as not fit for purpose….which THEY, the media, will know already but no harm making Scottish public aware….perhaps may even get public to research WHY if not already blatantly obvious.
Kind Regards from
Eyes Wide Open
pps Robert J Sutherland….with you 100% my friend.
Just watched sky news coverage of the so called stunt. Not once did they mention that it was breaking the Scotland devolution act voted for in a referendum by the Scottish people. Can’t trust the media to give any sort of fair coverage. Just shameful. Never mentioned Bercows about turn. Gave a full interview to a Mundell who blamed labour and the snp. Dirty barstewards.
So in summary Westminster is using the Euro referendum ( we must deliver the democratic wishes of the people) to change the referendum of 97 the democratic wishes of the Scottish people. Where in the euro referendum does it say anything about overturning this Scottish referendum. There is absolutely no need for this. The Tories/ Labour the lot of them are saying Scottish referendums do not count – any old future UK referendum on any subject can overrule your second class Scottish referendum.
Any Scot who accepts this is pathetic and spineless or a Britnat.
Forthwith – I will be mostly respecting Rev for pointing out the meaning of forthwith.
Bercow did not know what to do, he chastised someone for telling him what to do but it was clear he had to resort to help from his cronies sitting beside him for guidance.
All his smiling and blustered authority shouting order order in that funny accent doesn’t work when it is clear he is out of his depth .
I’ve seen him do this before when confronted with people who openly call out his sidestepping of house rules but he is surrounded by England, make no mistake this house exists for the power and betterment of England , not Wales not Ireland not Scotland .
Walking out was good, bercow can’t offer opportunity to vote now and then when accepted say sit down be quiet and wait til the end for the vote and expect members to accept being treated that way.
There will be repercussions.
SNP MP,s will return, they have to, they will see it through til the end.
The Scottish independence referendum will be announced by January ….roll on.
England controls Scotland
Scottish people want independence
English people should not be allowed to vote for England to continue controlling Scotland
Its undemocratic
Scottish votes for Scottish questions
Scotland would now be independent if English people had not been allowed to vote in the last Scottish independence referendum
It does not matter where English people live
English people should not be allowed to vote in a Scottish independence referendum because it is England we want to break free from
This morning I was very down about the way yesterday had panned out. Today and at last we’re taking the fight to them – and getting the headlines. I see Mundell has been summoned to Holyrood to explain his (in)actions. Meantime the tank commander is messing about wth Grievomax tweets. They really don’t like it, do they? Not such fun when your tactics backfire, is it? Well done our Scottish MPs APART from Scottish Labour, the Scottish LibDems (who bizarrely are Welsh supporting), and, not forgetting (wish I could) the Standing up for Scotland (not) Tories.
Watched indy car Gordon Ross and as he said , all cooking along nicely all we need now is for the engerlish sc to rule against the continuity bill then that is a TOTAL BREACH of the treaty where as RP always tells us Scots Law is binding in perpetuity
It is also clarified in the link NANA put up (thanks NANA for ALL you do for us bairns , yer a bright shining STAR )
I 99% usually agree with you breeks but I think in this instance we need to give Nicola a wee bit more time , I like many of us were spittin nails yesterday but hopefully today is only a foretaste of what’s to come , and hopefully the tories in their usual denigrating demeaning attitude will continue on eto bltheir arrogant dismissive way
Saw a link that the SCUK continuity bill determination will begin 24th July 2018. Not long to wait but too long
Cubby @ 16:26,
Interestingly, the last regime which elevated the principle that “the will of the people” triumphs all was the late-unlamented National Socialist government of Germany. As I recall, democracy didn’t exactly prosper whilst they were in charge.
Tricky times indeed (and not just for Scotland in this damned UK either).
Mik put up a link to this on the previous article twathater but here it is again.
For as much as I keep going on about convening an assembly etc this does seem to be a way, not too far distant, that could will rip up the Treaty of Union in fairly short order and negate, in m y view, any need for another indy ref.
In the meantime, anyone who is in and around Edinburgh tomorrow between 11:00 and 14:00 there is a flash protest outside Holyrood.
https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/2128648170497831/?hc_ref=ARTukqUHUdeod79Wz_dEyZUiGfSFcY0H0c2co5IeO3YtKZO-P45R3djZyk4j_AfpkuA&fref=nf
Can we organise a petition looking at Mundell’s job description?
The main role of the Scottish Secretary is to promote and protect the devolution settlement.
Other responsibilities include promoting partnership between the UK government and the Scottish government, and relations between the 2 Parliaments.
IMHO it would appear to me that he hasn’t done the job he’s paid for (by us through our taxes). A petition might provide an opportunity to consider if he is fulfilling his job remit – and whether we should be paying for him and his staff?
So it’s now clear. Independence or colony. Devolution is finished and worthless. We now have a clear focus. It’s one or the other. Contact all the Indy groups gone by and bring them back. Build new, grassroots movements, shout til your throat is red raw. This is where we stand or fall.
Movy @ 16:39,
From now on, the obvious response to any appeal in Scotland to support Labour is simply: “A vote for Labour is a wasted vote”.
Or: “Neither for the many or the few (just themselves)”.
With that abject capitulation in the HoC, Labour have just killed off any hope for a revival of their NorthBritLab outpost in Scotland. It is history now.
Woo – Hoo!
The BritNats are still in their classic: “Don’t panic, don’t panic – everything is under control!” mode.
However, under that polished red white and blue veneer, they are seriously rattled.
Just keep the pressure on now and they will lose the plot big time. Good move SNP , but keep the pressure on and leave WM to be WM. Sparks will fly. We live in interesting times. 🙂
It strikes me that what we need now is a large funeral procession through the streets of Edinburgh, ending down the High Street, led by bearers carrying a coffin clearly marked “devolution”.
Its independence or English domination. There is no “middle way” now.
I believe the SNP membership site is going like a fairground. People were piling in last night but since the walkout it has been birling.
I am always proud of the SNP MPs, who lets face it, having to sit in WM day after day being treated like shit from the “Establishment”, must be soul destroying.
For me, today was the tide turning. If the SNP sit in WM tomorrow, Mr Blackford should stand up and demand an apology from Bercow and the immediate resignation of Fluff Mundell, if neither happens the party walks out again.
Its time to play the bastards at their own game.
Simples.
Apparently the SNP had lodged a request for an emergency motion tomorrow to discuss devolution but after they left en masse there was no-one to move that motion so – perhaps that’s why Pete Wishart and co went back into the Chamber.
Hearing that 1,000 new members of the SNP this afternoon since Ian Blackford walked out.
Now Sarah Smith twisting it on R4, quoting (t)Ruthless who is calling it Grievomax apparently; Labour think it is a stunt according to Sarah Smith but what do Scottish Labour think of it, funnily enough she left that hanging in the air?
They have admitted on the BBC that SLAB, SLib Dem and the Greens supported the SNP view that it was a power grab, only the Scottish tories voted against it and some reporter has interviewed Blackford and said they she has absolutely ‘no doubt’ that the SNP is deadly serious about this scenario.
RJS
maybe we can carry the Devolution Coffin on the Bannockburn march?
@gus1940
If the news told me that the LibDems had walked out of the House of Commons and described it as a stunt, it would get my attention and I’d look for more detail. Most might not, but some will, it’s a drip drip drip of the MSM committing Hari-Kari, and the SNP have nicely cleaned, polished and sharpened the blade for them. The problem the MSM has is they’re incestuous and can;t see outisee their own little twitter and bar circle. They dont talk to actual punters, and don’t have a clue what people think.
And yesterday wasn’t the time I think, it would have detracted from what publicity the power grab got, today is perfect, reinforces whatever people may have gleaned.
Apparently, accord the National, people joining the SNP today after the pwoer grab.
The old British divide and continue to rule tactic will be dusted down just for us. Expect the unionist puppets of left and right to ape the Scotland desparaging rhetoric of the colonial master.
Rev Stuart Campell 2.42pm. David 2.40pm
Spot on when Bercow asked Blackford to leave immediately which means the same as forthwith he didn’t give Blackford the option of leaving it until later. The Tories making up the rules as they go along. The Tories changing the definition of words to suit themselves.
A corrupt and dysfunctional Westminster parliament.
Don’t be surprised if (t)Ruthless walks out tomorrow at FMQ’s – they’ll be mad and want to get all the coverage they can… bet Nicola, Born of Dragons will be on fire tomorrow – get the popcorn in.
Alex’s show too – bet he’ll have plenty to say and will it make QT ?
Agree with others, Nicola’s petition is a total waste of time, surely something a bit more is needed?
@Nana
Absolutely, they have to stay, and, as they obviously have done, read up on the rules that the Speaker clearly doesn;t understand – and use them in full.
The 35 SNP MPs need to practive filibustering …
Strange when I watched the BBC I had no idea that The Speaker had asked IF he wished the vote NOW or later. NOW was Blackfords response AND I move. It was then overturned after the tory henchmen huckled the “independent speaker”
Democracy —aint that what the brexiteers are always on about.
If interviewed every MP or MSP should ask why they have censored out the full point of order.
The focus shouldn’t be on the Scottish MPs who walked out in response to the events of the last 24hours, the focus should be on the Scottish MPs who DIDN’T walk out!
About the only reason I haven’t joined the SNP is that I know I am an embarrassing arsehole who talks a lot of shite. I always though the best thing was to at least make sure anything really idiotic I did would not have ” an SNP member ” attached to the story.
But compared to the Conservative and Unionist Party members and that craven remnant of the Labour part in Scotland etc, I am a thoughtful civil speaker.
Since most of what I need to do is shut up and post leaflets I think I can manage that without causing a scene. Perhaps I might be useful or at least help someone who is.
Time to be an adult.
@Willie B says: 13 June, 2018 at 3:12 pm:
” … Rip up that piece of shit they call the Act of Union and dissolve the union, no it’s and no buts, it has as much truth as the vow did.
Nah! Willie B, there is a Scottish Act of Union and an English Act of Union and neither of them has the slightest legal power to either continue or end the United Kingdom.
The document that agrees the union is the Treaty of Union itself. Let me explain – The two equally sovereign kingdoms, (and there are only two in the United Kingdom), agreed and signed a Treaty of Union.
Then each kingdom’s representatives that had signed the Treaty of Union went back to their respective, (still independent), parliaments and presented the Treaty of Union for their respective parliaments to accept.
So the English Parliament passed an English Act of Union and then sat and dissolved the Parliament of The Kingdom of England permanently. No parliament of the Kingdom of England has sat again since 30 April 1707.
In Scotland the legally sovereign people of Scotland were rioting in the streets and their parliamentarians were running for their lives. It is claimed that the final signature on the Kingdom’s of Scotland’s Act of Union was signed it what was, (when I lived in Edinburgh), a ladies toilet in the cellar of a restaurant on the opposite side of the Royal Mile from the Old Scottish Parliament.
So the legal document is “The Treaty of Union”, and each Act of union is the agreement of the individual kingdoms parliaments to agree to adopt the Treaty.
But there is a twist to the tale – The old parliament of England officially put itself into permeant recess and has never sat again and Westminster IS NOT the legal parliament of either the country or the kingdom of England.
But as the Scots parliamentarians were running for their lives the Act of Union was never officially put into recess by parliament but was proclaimed as over by town criers around the Streets of Edinburgh. This was not an official recess. Thus the old Scots parliament was what is known as, “Prorogued”.
Thus when Winnie Ewing opened the new, devolved, Parliament of Scotland, the lady was very wise and “reconvened”, the Old Scots Parliament”, and as this was an official sitting of the parliament it was not only much recorder on tape and film but recorded in the minutes of the Parliament:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiottF-df3Y
So when the Union ends there will be no United Kingdom so Westminster is no longer legal and there is no elected parliament of the Kingdom of England as that ended on 30 April 1707.
Gary 45% 5.16pm
Spot on great ideas.
Time to rough them up.
1000 new members of SNP this afternoon. Not shabby.
Thomas valentine. No, you are a patriot sir and Scotland needs more people like your good self.
I’m recording STV news and watching BBC News to see if STV tells the news Honestly.
You are being watched, in more ways than one.
Well done Ian Blackford and all the SNP MP’s.
“A stunt”! More like a live televised ambush. (And i think they’re doing it deliberately). A Salmond was renown for his expert knowledge of Westminster’s arcane procedures. I wonder if he’s had a hand in this. I believe he’s had a bit more spare time of his hands than usual :-).
They have to go back. Same time, same place and same stuff EVERY week.
This is the highlight of the week, so far.
Can SNP do this every week.
Cubby
Aye and people were piling in last night and this morning too. Almost certainly not the sort of reaction Mundell and Co were hoping for.
Maybe Bercow is in on it. The knives are out for him from the Tories and Labour too I think, and he is very pally with Alex Salmond …
Labour & Tory – twa cheeks o’ the same airse!
Never a truer word spoken.
Come next HE you can bet SLabour’s new campaign slogan will be “Vote Labour to Return Devolution to the Scottish Parliament”.
Never mind that the buggers abstained last night. That’s the kerd they’ll be trying to play.
And our reply. “Why? So’s another Tory Gov can come along in 5 years time and trash it again!”
Devo is Dead.
It was NEVER the answer to Scotland’s democratic deficit. Time to move on.
And Nicola is timing things just nicely from what I’ve been seeing.
Douglas Ross and Ian Murray in HOC, post SNP walk out , via a video on channel 4 news Twitter actually saying ” want to represent constituents” wah wah wah wah SNPBAD….if it wasn’t for those pesky SNP MP’s we would have gotten away with it….away with NOT representing constituents that is… as opposed to their spin….
Ha Bloody Ha….Carry on Spinning starring Charles Hawtrey as Douglas Ross and Kenneth Williams as Ian Murray….ooh they’ve got it infamy…infamy….those SNP MP’s who are really representing their constituents have got it in for me.
Representing constituents Doug and Ian ? Well you may SAY you WANT to but you are FAILING to BIG TIME….nudge nudge wink wink….turn a blind eye…blind eye ? oops not anymore cause SNP and Power grab it be trending.
Both of you voted with HQ…one of you with your party to destroy devolution and the other abstained…..obvs a STUNT ….hey guys your constituents in your constituency voted….big drum roll….REMAIN…..REMAIN…REMAIN…REMAIN….Party before country …tut tut….Not again.
Starter for 10….which Scottish MP’s last night represented their constituents and country ?…Not Ross and Murray …..correct NOT Ross and Murray.
@Ken500 says: 13 June, 2018 at 3:17 pm:
“Looks like Ian Blackford knows the Westminster procedures better than bully Bercow.”
That is a tradition of Scottish MPs, Ken500. Winnie Ewing knew her stuff as did Margo McDonald. Alex Salmond was an real expert too. Note that Joanna Cherry QC MP led the walk out after the sending off incident. I’d risk a tenner on a bet that Joanna Cherry QC MP had more than a hand it the whole event. She is, after all a Queen’s Councillor and obviously has a keen legal brain.
@ HandAndShrimp 5:09
I swore I would NEVER rejoin the SNP until they put a firm date on another referendum.
I rejoined this afternoon. I must stop swearing…
I will not join the SNP again, I will not, I refuse. I will not join …
… I suppose I could always join and NOT GO TO MEETINGS. That’d teach them.
Westminster does not have a clue what they are doing. Total chaos. A complete shambles. Amendments on amendments on amendment. What an absolute waste of money. All they are doing is ruling the economy. Des anyone have a clue what they are doing? It just gives people a headache. What a bunch of complete fools. Dangerous.
Guardian comments appear to be blocked. They are all supporting the SNP actions.
I suspect we won’t be leaving the HoC until the Establishment detonate this under their arrogant, sorry arses, as both Nana and BDTT have already pointed out:
https://twitter.com/RobynLStewart/status/1006643647981506561
Historical declarations, acts, Papal bulls,treaties und so weiter have consequences, pop-pickers.
On a personal note, delighted to say that we can now add “The Perpetual Abstention Party” and “Treeza’s Little Helpers” to the titles owned by Britnat Labour, aka BLiS______d.
FMQs tomorrow should be interesting: Whack a mole for Nicola, I expect.
Terence callachan.4.38pm i’m inclined to agree with you here.And just so we cant be accused of being anti english, no eu citizens allowed to vote on it either.just like they done with the brexit vote. And after we get our independence the world and his wife who live in Scotland can then vote for any political party of their choice.this is what any other country would do.otherwise we will get shafted again. Sorry but thats my opinion.
yesindyref2 @ 17:29,
With that particular comparison, how on earth would you know? =grin=
Watching that baying mob of politicians jeer chant and yell as the SNP MP’s exited on principle, really drives home to me that we cannot sway or affect anything in politics in the HoC, we are powerless.
We really do need to be a independent nation.
Mmm, senior member, 60+ £5. Mmm, money is short but …
Bobp @ 17:49,
Throw away some guaranteed 150k+ votes for yes?
Are you really that stunningly cretinous (or something else entirely)…?
Re my.last post , And i certainly dont mean any disrespect to the fine people of ‘ english scots for yes who have made scotland their home.but unfortunately they must see for themselves that they are outnumbered by their own compatriots by at least 10 to two.
Rjs.as opposed to 350.000 for no. No, i’m not the stupid one.
Today is nothing more than English parliamentary theatre if the SNP turn up after the summer recess.
No more SNP MPs wasting their time there, take the money and use it in the SNP seats, just like SF does.
Playing the game by Westminster rules means we lose.
Every single time.
RJS as opposed to 350.000 plus votes for no.No i’m not the stupid one.
The Rev in an old investigation discovered that Scottish Labour had only a few thousand real members. The Tories must have less than this. The SNP have over 100K and after today it will be rolling on …
– but here’s a thought – the SNP probably have “too many” members – so, the next 5-6000 people who are thinking of joining … join Scottish Labour instead, then at the next party conference …
VOTE IT OUT OF EXISTENCE
– and split any assets among the members.
If anyone tries to kick the new members out – point out to them that old poster with Keir Hardie and “Home Rule” on it – ask them just who-the-fuck is “real labour”?
Now, this is just “not cricket” – but I fucking hate cricket – and we can even beat them at that …
Everyone needs to get out their Macchiavelli, Art of War, Go No Rin Sho, How we won the War etc … then mix it up with Hansard and the HOC procedures book. Time for some unconventional, low intensity warfare.
Years ago, didn’t Big Lexo put together a quite serious bid to get Blair impeached for war crimes? We need his dark arts once again.
yesindyref2 says:
13 June, 2018 at 5:22 pm
@Nana
Absolutely, they have to stay, and, as they obviously have done, read up on the rules that the Speaker clearly doesn;t understand – and use them in full.
The 35 SNP MPs need to practive filibustering
Indeed. Give em a taste of their own medicine. WM’s great strength (arcane rules and regs) is also its great weakness. Time to use these silly rules against them. They won’t like it up em. 🙂
Ian should have left on his own with an applause from the other snp MPs. Then another should have done the same one after the other to maximise the disruption.
Bobp @ 18:00,
It’s funny how you and Callachan always seem to pop up at interesting moments, like mushrooms after the rain, with your familiar “othering” message. “Some of my best friends are English but…”, etc., giveaway.
What we need more than anything now is cohesion among everyone who has Scotland’s interests at heart, irrespective of origin, not narrow-minded division by self-appointed blood-and-soil merchants.
Miserable diversion artists, the pair of you.
Keep disrupting. Keep getting thrown out of WM. The british nationalist media will quickly run out of excuses and BAD SNP mouthing.
And people will start searching for the truth themselves. 🙂
Not a bad day.
SNP rediscover their cohonies, find out how to grab media attention (by the bollocks). Walkout praised even by some Brit reporters. Reported all over the world. Big news item on the screens tonight. And 1000 new SNP members to provide a bit of icing n the cake.
I wonder of that tory filibuster git is still smirking now?
Can’t wait to read Rocks take on it. Should be a laugh. 🙂
If the SNP are looking for ways to disrupt business: it took 4 hours to vote on 11 amendments yesterday. There will be safeguards in place to prevent it no doubt, but if not the entire business of the House of Commons could be brought to a shuddering halt by passing 100 amendments a week. There would be no time for anything except voting.
We need more of this radical opposition from our MPs in London and our parliament!
Well done today, time to get stuck in!
Tories of every hue screeching about being grown up and representing their constituents. You have to laugh – one set of rule for them and another for the rest of us. Well if they dish it out they have to learn to take it.
I hope the best brains in the SNP are scrutinising the rule books to use every Parliamentary trick therein to use against them. We have to play by their rules for now but we don’t have to play nicely.
Fun times huh ?
I do not do twitter, but my comments seem to have travelled far from humble FB origins.
I’ve just had a look at the on-line Express. it’s like landing in another world..
I lost count of the number of articles on Stuntgate including one where that balloon Alberto Costa spouted his usual nonsense.
It would appear that today’s events have upset our lords and Masters.
Let’s have more of the same.
Mmm, that’s quite satisfying, the BBC contradicted itself on Reporting Scotland, making Bird look daft. She said “walkout” it was clear from Blackford and the clip that he was thrown out.
Richard Leonard is playing a good hand, good for him. It’s about Devolution. Stick with it Richard, for the sake of Scotland.
Brian Taylor: “David Mundell will now spend an hour tomorrow explaining why they couldn’t allocate an hour yesterday“.
Class.
@Bobp says: 13 June, 2018 at 6:00 pm:
“Rjs.as opposed to 350.000 for no. No, i’m not the stupid one.”
No, you’re xenophobic one – I think we all got that.
Oh, and Jackie Bird now saying Blackford was thrown out, change from how she started off. A voice in her ear I daresay. Doncha just lurrv Auntie?
@Vestas says: 13 June, 2018 at 6:02 pm:
“Today is nothing more than English parliamentary theatre if the SNP turn up after the summer recess.
No more SNP MPs wasting their time there, take the money and use it in the SNP seats, just like SF does.
Playing the game by Westminster rules means we lose.
Every single time.”
So it’s SNP BAAAD! as usual then, Vestas?
Here’s footage of Ian Blackford (from Ross Colquoun’s twitter feed) being interviewed by the BBC just after the walkout…note the disdain on the BBC’s reporter’s stance and in his questioning of Ian. They ‘had’ to interview them but my guess is they did not ‘want’ to do it. English broadcasting for English viewers…fuck them all…
Ian was on fire in this, to the point eloquent and fighting talk.
https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1006876466007691264
Now contrast with Sky’s interview with Tommy Shepard…note the entirely different initial tone and stance…again Tommy was articulate, concise and totally sincere.
https://twitter.com/TommySheppard/status/1006897378576629760
More and more one begins to really realise how utterly thick these reporters are, the Tommy Shepard interviewer doesn’t even understand that this is a legislative issue that needs addressing not a committee backroom issue that needs tweaking. Sigh.
They got it onto to the world stage, more of this and more in their faces that the SNP are representing the making waves…they have an army of support here in Scotland and it is they who speak for us on this matter.
I see R Davidson has a new clever soundbite “Grievomax” quite clever really although I doubt she has the wit to have come up with it herself, perhaps we should respond it by referring to their power grab as Thievomax
BBC Scotland. I counted 5 times they said Scotland would not be going to the World Cup in their report on the football. They did of course find a guy in Edinburgh who said he would be supporting England.
Reporting Scotland should issue a health warning before their programme starts.
“Scots self esteem will be rubbished and will be rubbished relentlously. Detrimental to your self confidence. Only being British can save you from being a Scottish diddy”.
I hope The First Minister continues the approach and gives the Tories hell at Holyrood tomorrow. No more Mrs Nice Woman.
I note RT news has 1000 new SNP members statement. Well done!
Am down in Englandshire this week and hard at work all day so knew nothing.
Came out of work and Portuguese taxi driver when he clocked I was Scottish said, did you hear what happened today in parliament?
I said no, he said SNP walked out! Turns out he’s a massive fan of SNP, they look after the ordinary people, Nicola is wonderful, best politician etc etc!
Says he loves Scotland and hopes we get independence. I was fair chuffed. I told him the situation with the media in Scotland and how if they told the truth there would be at least 60% support for independence.
Missed a trick though, should have told him he could join the SNP even though living in England!
Ma heart fair jumped when he said SNP walked out, am still on a high!
The day our MPs leave that wretched Parliament to come home to an independent Scotland will be the proudest day in our nation’s history. Let’s hope it comes soon.
Over 1000 new members of the SNP today apparently.
I hope one of them is Kezia D
So long as she doesnae try to talk!!
Someone told me it’s all happening at the zoo
I do believe it
I do believe it’s true
The SNP stand for honesty
Tories are insincere
And the Labour are kindly but they’re dumb
LibDems are skeptical
Of changes in their wages
And the Speaker is very fond of rum
SiU are reactionaries
Us MMT are missionaries
Media plots in secrecy
And politicos turn on frequently
What a gas, you gotta come and see
At the zoo
At the zoo
At the zoo
At the zoo
At the zoo
At the zoo
At the zoo
At the zoo
Despotism by proxy.
We could put an extra row of chairs in at Holyrood for the MPs, work from home, so they’ll have to disrespect us by Skype.
The Tories, shamefully ruling BOTH NATIONS OF THE UK for themselves alone.
When Labour get in, if you remember, they pretend to be different, at first, then coming over all Tory-like towards an election.
Just been told that 1000 new members is now 3000
Robert
I think it is over 1100 now and that is just this afternoon. People were joining last night and this morning too.
I have to say I am impressed by how much coverage the SNP have got from a simple walk out…one generated by the Speaker getting his procedure wrong too rather than planned. The Yoonisphere appears to be in meltdown with various zoomers claiming that new members are fake news. I particularly liked the claim that “it wouldn’t matter how many new members the SNP got they will fail”. Call me picky but I think if the SNP get 2 million new members the Union is bust and Holyrood would have 129 SNP MPs. Why do people write such gibberish?
Cubby,
Really, 5 times? They really hate themselves.
@Luigi says: 13 June, 2018 at 3:22 pm:
“Remember Alex Salmond managed to stall the budget reading one year?
We need some more disruption of that magnitude.
Gloves off. Popcorn ready. ?”
Alex was a master of that art, Luigi.
His very best one came right out of the blue and has been mostly suppressed by the media ever since but here is a cut & paste taken from the Guardian
Alex Caught out Waldegrave and forced the truth from him by the use of Westminster’s rather idiotic procedures. Waldegrave later wrote some very bitter and totally lying stuff supposedly rubbishing Salmon’s claims but the truth was Salmond forced Waldegrave to read out official figures. Incidentally this was when those of us in the party got to know about the McCrone Report,
You will note that back then the BBC/STV and the MSM were suppressing information but we had a great deal of trouble getting any information out to a Scottish electorate. Much, much harder than it is today.
Robert peffers 6.52pm. So stating a fact makes me xenophobic? Aye right!.
louis.b.argyll
why? carlton hill is available ad we could do with an upper house.
Not too concerned about this being called a ‘stunt’. The SNP group had to do something to get airtime for this issue, as the BBC were determined to ignore yesterday’s shenanigans. The speaker actually played right into the SNP’s hands by bungling his response and triggering a legitimate walk-out.
The democratic outrage is now headline news, which it should have been yesterday. If this is what it takes, let’s have more of the same.
@yesindyref2
Time it was
And what a time it was
A time of innocence
A time of consequences
Long ago, it must
I have a vow to share
Preserve your sovereignty
It’s all that’s left you.
How many of us are old enough to remember this album.
Rjs .i’m not a blood and soil merchant, i’m merely stating a known fact. Stick your head in the sand if you want.
This whole Brexit negotiation between WM and Holyrood has been a farce all along. WM never intended to compromise on the key powers. Why since we have managed fishing and farming since 1908 we suddenly cannot. Its all crap and is a power grab.
I hope that the Scottish Government somehow manages to keep this pressure on the twats down south by the Thames. I am very angry at the moment about all this.
I take heart however that we the YES movement are getting better prepared and that the social trends are moving our way.
This was real politics with SNP taking the inly action available in a non democratic instituation so now outdated it would be better in a museum.
No decisons are made in WM which are for the people in their masses.
A government of 33% of a 70% of electorate which is a first past the post system.
How undemoctatic can one get?
Brian Taylor got it right on the 6.30pm news today. He said that “If the Government at Westminster cared about Scotland they would have found the time”
@jfngw
Just some old friends sitting on a park bench like bookends.
HandandShrimp says:
“3 June, 2018 at 7:38 pm
Robert
I think it is over 1100 now and that is just this afternoon. People were joining last night and this morning too.
I have to say I am impressed by how much coverage the SNP have got from a simple walk out”
Handshrimp.
Imagine what they and we could do with fair and proper media coverage. That’s why we’ll never get it in this dying union.
@Bobp
Yer arse. Here’s a bold prediction – it’ll be the English in Scotland who win Independence for Scotland.
Yesindyref2. Well i’ll be the first to hold my hands up and say (hopefully) i was wrong.but i wont hold my breath.
The SNP walkout not listed among the 5 or so stories listed in the introduction of Channel 4 News. You would think the biggest walkout from the Commons in decades might have been mentioned in what claims to be the serious news programme.
7:52pm
Brian Taylor got it right on the 6.30pm news today. He said that “If the Government at Westminster cared about Scotland they would have found the time”
Serial rapist rescues cat from burning building. Too little, too late, toodle doo.
Interesting that the walk out gets onto BBC front page, which means they break down what the ‘power grab’ is.
Probably just BBC bias eh?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44470777
Where’s that Rentokil number?
Mmm, great picture of the Long Arm of the Law.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44470777
@Robert J. Sutherland says: 13 June, 2018 at 3:41 pm:
” … Indeed, a sorry but necessary lesson to be learnt. Be nice (like yesterday) and be ignored. Get stroppy (like today) and get attention.
Much more of the latter, please.”
Oh! Give it a rest for a bit, Robert, and use your head for a bit.
If the Westminster faction were to be consistently on this, “attack mode you keep urging them to adopt it would soon become a useless and unworkable ploy.
The reason that such things are so very effective is because they are surprise attacks upon a Westminster full of its own piss and importance. I quote, up-thread an old example where Alex Salmond caught out Sir William Waldegrave when the latter was in full anti-Scottish flow. As a result we found out about the real figures and about the existence of the Gavin McCrone report.
In point of fact it didn’t have nearly as much of an impact as it should have had. If you really cannot work out why I’ll spell it out for you.
First of all the Westminster Establishment Propaganda Wing gave the matter very short shrift. In and other union in the World it would have ended that union but not in the United Kingdom. In a couple or so days they were rubbishing what is still recorder by Hansard and making out Salmond was making up the figures. They were official Government figures.
I’ll quote you another item that in any other union of any sort in the World would have seen the end of that union but not in the United Kingdom. Now I’m only going as far back as indy1 here.
Westminster commissions a pair of what they claimed to be, “Constitutional Experts”, and besides a real load of utter bollox they made the claim that, “The Treaty of Union, extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.
Now just consider that for a moment –
In the first place there is no evidence to that effect contained in the Treaty of Union. It simple does not exist in the text of the Treaty of Union. The Treaty is a straightforward agreement between two equally sovereign independent kingdoms, who just happened have their crowns end up on the same person’s head, and the actual treaty states exactly the opposite to what these so called experts were claiming it said.
The Treaty specifically states that the two kingdoms must forever remain independent in respect of their legal systems, their education systems and their individual religious relationships to their Christian Church systems. Nothing in the treaty even suggests that Westminster will be the Parliament of the Country of England with the Kingdom of Scotland as a dominion of England.
Did this really horrendous claim raise any ripples in the minds of the Scottish General public in the middle of a Scottish referendum about Scottish independence?
Did it hell – it should have set Scotland on fire with an urge to get out of the union with England – but it did no such thing.
That is exactly what will happen if the SNP get stroppy on a regular basis – the media will ignore it, the BBC will make it seem the SNP are BAAD and in the Wrong and it will be all the Nicola Sturgeon’s fault as usual.
Just thing about it – would any other country stand by and see its natural resources finance another country as did the UK classing all oil & gas as United Kingdom extra regio revenue?
Would any other country allow the Ponzi scheme that is the Barnett Formula pass without a fight?
Would any other country allow another country to make them pay more to add power to a grid to feed into London and at the same time subsidise the English power producers?
Devolution isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. It’s technically irrelevant,as Scottish sovereignty has always existed without having to be granted.
In a sense we are finally starting realise this. Devolution is for unionists. It’s not for nationalists.
Surprised no one has mention how bad Scotland Today was tonight, capped off by Harry Smith’s report when he showed a bizarre clip of Bercow praising a baby in the public gallery for it’s impeccable behaviour. Hmmm, what could they have been alluding to I wonder? Reporting Scotland, for once, was excellent especially Brian Taylor.
What a great day. The media conspired to keep it quiet about the power grab, but today’s excellent actions by theSNP have changed all that. Let’s see more of this. Tie Westminster in knots by its own frankly ridiculous procedures. If they need any advice, I am sure Mr. Salmond will happily oblige – I can only assume he would have been laughing his socks off today.
Time to stop making it easy for Westminster. Time to obstruct, disrupt and hold up procedures until they get so sick of it, they decide it would be easier to stop treating Scotland like sh*t. Westminster has no idea just how difficult things are about to become.
Let’s make the march in stirling on the 23rd the very biggest yet. Time to teach Westminster a very big lesson.
Glad to see Iain Blackford in fighting form today. The time for being nice and for negotiations is long gone. Time to stand up for Scotland and our parliament.
NS needs to really nail this at FMQ’s tomorrow.
As for Labour, well they are finished in Scotland.
Anyone live in Ian Liddell-Grainger constituency ?
Bridgewater and Somerset….
I emailed the baw-bag to politely ask for comment about his ‘suicide heckle’. But they only reply to constituents.
http://liddellgrainger.org.uk/contact-ian/
@Scott Harrison
Yes, STV was shite. Just watching the ITV one, and it’s STV on laxatives.
I admire you guys that can still persevere with the TV news. I can’t thole the sods for more than a couple of minutes on any topic on any part of the world let alone Scotland.
@ doug 8:46
Do you realise that he was actually born in Edinburgh ?
This escapade highlights that fact that the establishment shows that they use the rules and regulations they created in order to keep control. If you are not put off by the verbal abuse then you are silenced by the bureaucracy.
I see that posters in here suggest using these rules and regulations against the establishment. That does sound fair especially with the complete media blackout against the SNP MP’s. However, that may be counter-productive if done excessively as it could be spun that the SNP’s only desire is to disrupt and seen by the reporting of the MSM today.
There is also the fact that it does looks it is heading to the point that either the Scottish parliament holds a referendum to protect itself or else face eventual extinction through a cut of a thousand slices with Westminster clawing back powers. If a referendum is to take place, it can only hold validity if every other avenue that is humanly possible is taken and exhausted. If it is seen that the SNP is accused of continually disrupting the political process and therefore shown to be participating this showdown, then can the referendum be won?
I’m not suggesting that the SNP Westminster contingent should be nice boys and girls and sheepily get back in their box but use the tactics shown today sparingly in order to gain maximum effect.
One for the Rev if he (hint) does a follow-up, about Dewar’s walkout
https://twitter.com/AddictedToTweed/status/1006928492615950337
Last night I wrote that Nicola and the SNP MPs and MSPs stopped being so fuckin nice and start fighting back. As had many other over the last couple of days.
For some unknown reason THEPNR picked me out for special attention
Thepnr says:
13 June, 2018 at 12:02 am
@Indy2
“Either your a nutjob or just not very good at the trolling.”
Can you explain why you posted that about me THEPNR???
Considering the SNP had been getting attacked by many of its members for days before I posted my opinion.
And am I not allowed an opinion on here???
Bobp @ 19:47,
Indyref electoral 101 for dummies:
1. The current electorate will be the electorate at the next indyref, whatever dubious voices-off may whine about it. So our “350,000” will all be there, every one of them, like it or lump it. Deal with it.
2. The only exception may be the 150,000 or more EU residents, who will be disenfranchised if we wait beyond 29.March next year.
3. The more anyone with more mouth than sense disrespects these “others” among us and treats them as “untermenchen”, the less likely they are going to vote for a new country supposedly promoted by these loudmouths. Why on earth would anyone do otherwise?
4. The “othering” affects more than just the target group. People from very different backgrounds (Asian, Chinese, etc., etc.) will deduce that if English people can be singled-out and targeted, so can they. Same result as (3) but with knobs on.
It’s so stunningly clear to all but the very obviously prejudiced. RP makes the equally clear and correct deduction.
As Ben Franklin said well in a previous era, we hang together – no exceptions – or we hang apart.
I want to win, and I want the most possible votes that will be delivered – as delivered they certainly will be, one way or the other – to be delivered for “yes”.
Divide-and-conquer, the old cynical BritNat trick. Still on show, still being tried by Knaves and Fools United.
Well, the EU Withdrawal Bill has yet to pass in its entirety, but this is still another nail in the coffin of the “Precious Union” (presuming it’s true) from an hour ago:
“BREAKING: MPs vote 327-126 against EEA membership after Brexit.”
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1006975243762720768
There’s still a few dominoes to go before the double blank.
That’s me joining SNP now.
Today did it for me after years of swithering.
Looking forward to hearing the number of new members from Nicola Sturgeon tomorrow as she gives Davidson the proper skelping she deserves.
😉
@IanB
Jings, I need a fag! You did WHAT?
In My Opinion Nicola should name the date for IndyRef2 in the Autumn and go for Spring 2019.
Get us as far away from those English bastards as possible as quickly as possible.
The sight of Mundell sitting in amongst those english MPs laughing at the SNP MPs walking out fuckin sickened me.
Fuck England and their Parliament.
Yesterday would be too late for me to be leaving the English Pricks.
I am just so totally pissed off with England, their Parliament and their people.
And this is not trollin’,,this is me talking from the heart.
Bobp
I was born in England and im a member of snp.
Yer a bawheid numpty racist b@sterd.
We dont need people like you, ye dae westminsters work for them.
Yesindiref2 – dangerous game to play, there are a few quotes on parliamentary stunts out there
The Scottish National Party MSP John Swinney said: “All this crowd are interested in doing is performing stunts and disrupting parliament.
“They’ve got a privileged position, they’re members of a democratic parliament.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4635959.stm
Aye interesting that it took the SNP to walk out before the BBC’ had’ to report on the ongoing power grab that we’ve all been on about for months eh? Gfgftb. And even in that report they are ‘reality checking’ a known fact. Pfft!
Nicola Sturgeon just tweeted
“Number of new @theSNP members since noon today is now 1,500…and rising. Welcome to all. If you haven’t signed up yet, you can do so here”
1500 SINCE NOON
@Indy2: “Get us as far away from those English bastards as possible as quickly as possible.”
That anti-English sentiment is PRECISELY why Thepnr had a go at you. You’re a troll with the sole purpose of tryinhg to stir up anti-Eglishness, while at times saying things that look like supporting Indy.
Many of us marked your card a long time ago, you’re a flag troll.
Now fuck off.
IB im gobsmacked 🙂 joined myself today , or should say rejoined been a member since early eighties but never renewed last year as was unhappy with a few things.
Actually watched the disreporting Scotland news tonight, thought Toodle the noo got it spot on, first time I have seen Leonard , my goodness he is useless, I thought Lamont was scraping the bottom the the accounting unit barrel, but she looks like a Stateswoman compared to those that followed her.
Arbroath 1320 4.26pm Thanks for that I subscribe to indycar Gordon Ross so i get his youtube videos in my inbox , I think he comes up with lots of good ideas .
I think it was Ronnie Anderson ( sorry if it wasn’t you Ronnie ) who didn’t like his idea about forming another indy party called GRIP ( Grass Roots Independence Party ) to fight the combined unionist parties at Holyrood and give independists the opperchancity to elect list candidates to support the SNP .
Quite honestly I and I am sure many others could think of a few posters on here who would be perfect in a GRIP party to assist and augment the SNP in their endeavours to constrain the brit nat parties and build our independent country for our children and grandchildren
For Ian to stand up for Scotland in the snake pit of Brutish Unionism with 600 of the most vile humans (man and woman) on this planet yelping,screaming,jeering insults and abuse and not be cowed or bullied was inspirational,
Ross,Skye and Lochaber must be very proud of him.
How much is yearly membership @SNP? I’m ready to join.
YES!!!!
@Ian B
Shit just got serious. You need a Lambrini and quick. The SNP will never be the same again. 😀
I hope they know what they’re in for. LOL
@Yesindyref2
That’s number two. 😉
Undeadshaun.9.27pm. Fair play to you son.my daughter was born in england as well, and my wife.
@Yesindyref 2
Damn it! Forgot to reference your post on the dominoes. Doh!
But yes, that’s number 2.
Well, that’s the voting over, so the destruction of anything like our Rights can proceed unhindered.
Like most, I disagree with an unelected body such as HoL, BUT, on this occasion, they tried their best to tell HoC, don’t throw everything out, keep the good stuff from EU. The stuff that little people benefit from.
Tory response, fuck that.
So, no EEA, no SM, no CU, consumer rights, environmental protection, employment rights and no appeal to ECJ.
Anyone who fell for chat about taking EU laws and improving them are sadly deluded. It’s the next part of the jigsaw to removing Holyrood powers too.
I’ve been saying for a while that I can’t see anything other than No deal. Ripping up standards allows Tories so much freedom to encourage sweat shops in the hope of trade deals outwith EU, which has been debunked time and again.
The Scottish National Party MSP John Swinney said: “All this crowd are interested in doing is performing stunts and disrupting parliament.
“They’ve got a privileged position, they’re members of a democratic parliament.”
You are totally right Gftb as that report is about the Scottish Parliament which is a truly democratic institution whereas our brave SNP MP’s have to endure the most undemocratic and arcane parliament so cheers for that 🙂
@Macart
They should fall thick and fast now, the landlord has called “Last Orders”.
@Terence callachan says: 13 June, 2018 at 4:38 pm:
” … English people should not be allowed to vote in a Scottish independence referendum because it is England we want to break free from.”
Utter pish, Terence, I’m getting really sick of reading these totally wrong claims. The Kingdom of Scotland is NOT leaving either the country or the Kingdom of England.
Neither is the Kingdom of Scotland leaving the United Kingdom – The Kingdom of Scotland will be ending the United Kingdom.
It is really just as simple as that.
The truth is that the Treaty of Union is, (not was), a two party agreement between two equally sovereign Kingdoms but was forced upon Scotland by the Kingdom, (not the country), of England and that is why the resultant union is called The United KINGDOM.
It is a, still in force today, international treaty. If it were not in force today we would already have returned to being an independent kingdom.
That is the exact legal set of facts.
When the Treaty of Union comes to an end it is not Scotland leaving anything it is the Kingdom of Scotland ending the United Kingdom and what is left behind is going to be in BIG, BIG trouble. That is because there hasn’t been a Kingdom of England Parliament since 30 April 1707. Westminster is legally the United Kingdom Parliament and when the two Kingdoms split up there is no United Kingdom Parliament and the Kingdom of England has no more right to be a NATO, UN, EU or Commonwealth member than has her former equally sovereign partner Kingdom of Scotland.
These organisations were are also all international treaties and thus both former United Kingdom Partners have equally valid legal claims to retain their memberships in these international bodies. The international bodies have two choices – one is to retain both kingdoms as member states or retain neither as member states.
That will be except for the EU as the Kingdom of Scotland voted to remain an EU member but the Kingdom of England voted to leave. Oh! and by the way, The Kingdom of Scotland not only owns part of the Palace of Westminster but a part of the so called Bank of England and parts of the United Kingdoms other assets.
I cannot understand the people of Scotland blindly accepting the Westminster take on things as being correct.
Brexit and all associated constitutional chaos could be sorted out quickly and easily!
England (and Wales) voted to leave the EU. There was no plan, but there are clear indicators of what this meant – no freedom of movement, no ongoing payments to the EU, move away from EU regulation. That dictates the style of post Brexit relationship – something akin to the Canada goods trade deal with perhaps some accommodations of services. The EU should readily agree to this.
Ireland and Scotland are equally easy to sort out. Two referendums, one for reunification one for independence. England and Westminster, along with their agencies i.e. BBC, should remain neutral. The decisions should be up to Scots and Irish. If they choose to dissolve the existing UK this should be done promptly and smoothly.
If Ireland (North and / or South) rejects reunification then there will be an EU border in Ireland. That will be explicit in their decision.
If Scotland chooses to retain the UK, then we leave the EU with England and accept the ‘new order’.
Then everyone can get on with living with the futures they have chosen.
Only one thing stands in the way of this plan – Greater English Nationalism.
@YIR2, Lenny H, Macart –
Hoots all.
Bit shocked meself, but it feels like there’s really nowhere else for the likes of me to go now. And in any case, it was the ‘action’ that did it for me – the simple fact that they got up and walked out in that atmosphere was, as someone said above, inspirational. Best thing I’ve seen on telly since Archie Gemmell’s goal.
😉
Domino number 1 fell neatly last night.
It took Blackfords ejection and the ‘walkout’ in solidarity to highlight the fall of Domino 1 (and the inability of the FibDems and BritNat Labour to defend Scotland) to the electorate by the MSM/BritNat Broadcasting Corporation.
Domino 2 has just fallen:
http://archive.is/RNFd9
Now Soft Nos, Remainers, Democrats regardless of Party can see that ONLY the SNP put the needs of Scotland and her people first.
BritNat Labstainers didn’t defend Devolution OR our Vote to remain in the EU.
End of the BritNat Red Tory Story in Scotland.
@Yesindyref2
Eyes on the SC and the Bexit deal once the voting hoohah is out of the way this week and then the fireworks should really start. 😉
If Westminster think folk’re not aware and not watching, they’d better think again.
Today the SNP ruined Englands weekly TV Brexit fest, the usual TV people couldn’t cope as they made stuff up on the spot mostly about how wrong or stunty or sheepy or badly behaved the SNP were in exercising their democratic and perfectly legal right to do what they did..and why
The British TV have their weekly schedule for PMQs and their wee guests all lined up to deliver their sermons from mount SKY or the incredibly biased and ill informed BBC and the SNP stole the show but in doing so they gave interviews to the waiting foreign press from around the world and laid bare and highly visible the democratic deficit in The United Kingdom of Englands filthy grubby self interested political system and exposed the House of Commons as the elitist club for English nationalism for all to see
Newspapers worldwide are circulating this offensive behaviour by the *English* government because now everyone can see clearly it does not represent the British except for those in England who think British and English are the same thing
German TV French TV and others are running this story with pictures and translations right across Europe right now and my my how our great British media must be running around working up the new plan of smash the SNP front pages but let’s make it look genuine stories
They’re behind the story now because they’ve stupidly and unwittingly become the story of the great English cover up of hostile environmental politics of the subjugation of a nation and the SNP have played an absolute and total blinder on behalf of the people of Scotland, if only some of them did but know it
Tonight the Scottish branch of the Labour party will be on the phone on facetime on everything to work up a plan for tomorrows FMQs that’ll not make them look even more stupid than this weeks branch manager already does and if he listens to Obi wan Corbyn he’ll screw it up even more
The Ruth Davidson sectarian DUP party will make a great deal of noise through spittle flecked gnashing teeth and gesticulate threateningly because they can’t help what they are, the superior breed ra peepel the Queens 11
but tomorrow they’ll go down hard when they do it and the watching world will see it all again
Ian Brotherhood,
Welcome aboard brother, grab an oar.
🙂
The outrageously undemocratic and disrespectful way England’s MPs have stolen power away from Holyrood to give it to themselves without giving Scotland, in the form of its democratically elected representatives even the opportunity to argue the case for its own Parliament, and the disgusting way in what Bercow dismissed Mr Blackford, who in my view, was pushing the boat to indirectly force him out to shut him up (his smile at the end gives it away for me), clearly states that this is not longer the Parliament of the Uk if it ever was. In fact it is not even attempting to look like the Parliament of the UK anymore. This is England’s parliament in all but in name and asserting its power. There is no place for Scotland’s democratically elected representatives in England’s parliament, where Scotland will never be an equal.
I honestly think it is time for Scotland’s MPs to consider withdraw from Westminster. Because frankly, where do we go from here, after England MPs have stolen our devolved powers? Are they seriously going to continue playing their game so England’s MPs can stole even more powers from us until leaving our Parliament without any meaningful power?
Can I suggest that in future every time an SNP MP gets up to speak there should be a ‘spontaneous’ outbreak of thunderous applause which, of course, according to Bercow is against the rules.
It’s a start and I’m sure other Wingers can suggest plenty of other ways in which our colonial masters can be made to regret their treatment of Scotland.
Dr jim 10.03 great post as usual.
@Bobp
Thank you sir I’m a slave to my keyboard even though I’m a doddery old grandad
@
Juan says:
13 June, 2018 at 5:31 pm
” … A Salmond was renown for his expert knowledge of Westminster’s arcane procedures. I wonder if he’s had a hand in this”.
There is another renowned for an expert knowledge of the Westminster (unwritten), arcane Rule book. A certain Joanna Cherry. The lady is a Queen’s Council and obviously has given up much legal work to be an MP. She has been known to rattle more than a few Westminster cages including a certain Bercow character’s cage. Do not underestimate that lady and note that she was to the fore in the walk out. A very clever lady indeed.
Robert Peffers @ 20:33,
It all depends, Robert, on how it plays with the public, and not just in Scotland either. As many others upthread have also already observed, now we’re being covered instead of routinely ignored in the media. Issues aired for people who previously had no inkling whatever of what was really going on.
Up until now, I grant you, the SNP have – quite correctly – been behaving scrupulously, observing the rules, playing the game and demonstrating responsibility, even when it has been manifestly to their disadvantage. I for one believe that’s one of the main reasons why they took a dip in the last UKGE. They looked like they were running seriously out of “fire in the belly”.
But there comes a time surely when the SNP’s famous gradualism will become a liability instead of an asset? Look at the public response already to the walkout. The BritNats may be huffing and puffing, but they are also looking shifty and unsettled by it.
We really do need to win people over now to the fundamental realisation that devo has run its course, become a dead end that if anything will in future be steadily retrenched, and the HoC will never deliver us the necessary fair solution.
Timed right, near a potential tipping point, righteous direct action wins converts and transforms a situation. The HoC has become a trap (maybe even a honey trap for some) that must now be sprung.
With people increasingly affronted by our mistreatment in the HoC, the more we disrespect it in return, the more popular we become in Scotland and the less popular in England. Both very desirable ends.
It’s all about timing. When is the right time to move onto the front foot, and – most importantly – be able to carry public opinion in Scotland with us. Then we will (at last!) be unstoppable.
Dr.jim .that makes two of us (grandads) lol.
Commenting on the general display of delight and amusement in the house at the SNP exit, Bercow said:
” I recognise that the House is in a state of some excitement—even Mr Hollinrake, who is normally a model of solemnity, is looking as though Christmas has come early—but I beseech the House to try to resume calm,”
New policy, not EVEL but EVENT – English Votes for English Nationalist Turkeys
I said I wouldn’t ever but well I took Ian Brotherhoods lead and also joined.
@ Dr Jim
Good post. The more you think about it, the more the timing was perfect. Ian stood planted against that wall of zoo noise.
They must have gamed out all the possibilities, and just been ready for either the vote, or being refused. It was win-win in terms of disrupting the news cycle, carefully controlled by msm.
They have earned much respect for walking out, a lot from the south.
@ Terence callachan & Bobp
Can you possibly define ‘English’ for me please – in terms of whom in Scotland you would wish to deny a vote on Independence?
Born in England to English parents?
Born in England to Scottish parents?
Born in Scotland with English Parents/Grandparents?
Identifying mainly as English?
White middle class ABC1 Scottish Tory?
Whilst I understand the sentiment of your comments, the idea of restricting a vote to only ‘Scottish’ people is not actually possible.
I once worked with a chap who had never really been out of Scotland all his days, yet he was officially Chinese!! His parents and grandparents were completely Scottish, yet he entered the world at 40,000 feet in Chinese airspace. You would deny him a vote?
Furthermore, I was at a local YES meeting yesterday where a significant portion of the SNP membership had very English accents! You would deny them a vote?
Be careful who you seek to alienate in your quest for a pseudo blood-and-soil referendum.
Spoke to my sister in Scotland today, she voted no in 2014 believing bt’s lies. She’s absolutely fuming and as she said, she’s had her eyes opened today.A big admission from her as she’s never been politically minded.
Does anybody know if the SNP plan to take their seats tomorrow? Or has “it” begun? Is this the end-game now finally unfolding?
I fear that the SNP will take their seats in London, perhaps they may have to, but personally, I’d much rather see them assemble here in Scotland, and sit in Council with our Holyrood MSP’s as our first fully sovereign Scottish parliament in over 300 years, and as the Parliament of Scotland’s Sovereign people, petition the UN for International recognition and personality, and petition the EU for Interlocutor status since Scotland formally disputes Westminster’s authority and mandate to speak for Scotland or negotiate Scotland’s interests.
I do take note of the thoroughly heartening comment earlier in day written by Gordon Blackhall, whereby the Union is defunct the moment when attempted subjugation is irrefutable, but didn’t we cross that threshold last night?
@Indy2
“Can you explain why you posted that about me THEPNR???”
No problem, here’s a couple of quotes from you in this thread.
“Get us as far away from those English bastards as possible as quickly as possible.”
“Fuck England and their Parliament.”
You have fallen into the trap that support for Independence is dependent upon anti-English sentiment which is utter bullshit.
I have no time for your so called support as that kind of attitude does the Independence cause more harm than good. You stirred the shit with your very first posts on Wings and are continuing in the same vein.
That’s why I pulled you up.
The duly elected Scottish First Minister has sent the link below to the Scottish People asking them to sign this petition to show the undemocratic and draconian parliament of Westminster that we will never accept the insulting behaviour doled out to Scotland’s representatives by the fascist Tory party and their house boy speaker.
Please sign this and send it on to everyone that you can think of who wants to see Scotland continue as a respected Sovereign Nation and not a English whipping boy Colony ripe for raping.
: http://www.snp.org/powergrab?recruiter_id=400277
John clark 10.21pm I would insist on a 5 yr residency in Scotland before allowed a vote .this would thwart the daily mail reading tory economic retirees. Or do you and rjs have a problem with that as well?
Replying to Graeme at 7.03
Excellent. Thievomax it is!
@ Bobp says: 13 June, 2018 at 7:41 pm:
“Robert peffers 6.52pm. So stating a fact makes me xenophobic? Aye right!.”
Now where did you get the idea I had said or claimed such a thing?
What makes you xenophobic is you suggesting/claiming that ANY of the peoples of Scotland, no matter what colour, creed or country of origin, should be prevented from voting in a Scottish election.
To prevent legitimate person from voting is undemocratic and if based upon country of origin, colour of skin, religious creed or ethnic origin is xenophobic.
@Valerie
With a bit of luck we should get the next thrilling installment of truth justice and the new Scottish way from the FM @12 High Noon tomorrow
How long have we been waiting for some action eh and it all comes at once (goosebumps)
For new Wingers.
Sign the petition and pass it on –
http://www.snp.org/powergrab?recruiter_id=691077
And no absent holiday home owners voting either.
Legally the articles of union have to be broken before the union can be dissolved. Once the bill is passed, once the Supreme Court overrule the continuity bill and finally once the EU deal is agreed then legally the terms of union can be proven to have been breached.
So it appears timing is now everything. WM are hoping we go too soon and they can deny the breach. If we dissolve the union then we must wait until September.
VIDEO THREAD – tonight at Westminster, MPs from @theSNP have expressed their thoughts about the #SNPWalkOut earlier today in a series of videos produced by our livestreamer in the group
https://twitter.com/liveIndyScot/status/1006998972446232576
Ruth Wishart’s blog also included, it’s worth a read.
Protest to save the Scottish Parliament in front of the statue of Donald Dewar on Friday
Details here
https://www.facebook.com/events/2115317215370316/
Breeks can you link to the comment from Gordon Blackhall, as it chimes with much of Mr Peffers has stated over the years on here and is relevant today of all days, cheers.
John Clark @ 22:21,
Hi John, and welcome if you’re new. We have been round this particular circle many times before, oft times with the selfsame individuals, alas. It doesn’t achieve anything but potential alienation of support, as you say, and also delivers quotes for others to misuse against indy in general and this site in particular.
@ RJS, Chinese are Asians. You mean pakistanis? Both relatively insignificant groups who look out for themselves. Couldn’t give a flying fuck about what they think. The fact of the matter is that most of the English up here will buckle and vote ‘no’ on the day, no matter how welcome they’re made to feel, so it doesn’t make a difference how much you try to smother natural resentment of them.
But whatever floats your boat.
@Big Jock says: 13 June, 2018 at 8:38 pm:
“Devolution isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. It’s technically irrelevant,as Scottish sovereignty has always existed without having to be granted.”
Very well put, Big Jock and Oh! so true.
Robert J. Sutherland says:
13 June, 2018 at 10:31 pm
[i]Hi John, and welcome if you’re new.[/i]
Hi Robert. I’m certainly not new! Been here every day for many years. I just posted using my real name rather than my moniker! Was a Wings referendum agent and have a couple of gold wings in my collection too! But thanks for the welcome!! 😉
Been an SNP supporter all my life but never actually joined as true member. Today, I did. Enough is enough!
Indeed, at the current rate, the SNP will soon be the 2nd largest party with membership.
Ironic, then, we are ruled by a party who’ll likely be 3rd placed soon…an has no interest whatsoever with all things Scotland…unless it suits them.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05125
@Bobp
Residency is a fair issue, but that applies to all voters, even for people born, brought up in Scotland, but moved elsewhere, as so many did.
Length of residency is difficult, some people move here and intend to stay here forever, so maybe 6 months is right for them, we’ve seen a few post on Wings. Whereas students can [1] be here for 4 or even 5 years but intend going home afterwards, wherever that is in the world.
[1] At the same time it’s clearly good to attract degree students to stay and live in Scotland, and quite a lot do, so that’s a difficult one too. Scotland needs to be incusive, and that includes the right to vote.
Basically there are pros and cons for any period of residency, be it 6 months or 6 years.
@ Hatuey says:
Well said…..re DUP…watch what you say…apparently they fine their MP’s £1000 if they give an interview to the media without their consent…so Christ knows what they could do to you or I for making a comment about them LOL….might need to have lunch with them on HOC terrace restaurant or something awful like that …that’s akin to corporal punishment….now personally I would prefer to opt for 50 lashes ….with a cheese roll afterwards……… in a cubicle made for one.
ps cheese roll is not a euphemism for something sordid.Literally cheese roll as in food..eat..LOL
Never seen you comment on here before…please continue.
Cheers
@K1
It’s at the top of the comments…
ayemachrihanish says:
13 June, 2018 at 2:39 pm
Consider this…
https://twitter.com/HelenArmet/status/1006835530577973248/photo/1
Use the Law!
boph
Stop your Diversionary tactics. So obvious. The discussion is over the Speaker in the HoC offered a vote now or later. When the motion was moved to now. Bercow reneged and threw Ian Blackford out.
Welsh Sion
http://www.snp.org/powergrab?recruiter_id=691077
repasting your link to the SNP petition.
I now some people tonight have said that they think a petition is pointless and they haven’t signed up. We discussed this at our branch meeting tonight and the point was made that for some people, signing a petition is the only way they can be active. So please sign up anyway, you might be able to attend marches, canvass, leaflet or go out and vote but some people are not able to do that and if we don’t all sign up then the effect is lessened.
Yes, a petition might not achieve much just now but we are playing a waiting game and dramatic reactions can only be used sparingly.
Yesindyref2 10.38pm agree, but some sort of residency plan nèeds implemented before any indy referendum.for all newcomers.
I certainly hope that the last 48 hours has lifted the scales off the eyes of many of your compatriots in Scotland.
Where is the lurve that was supposed to issue forth when Scotland had the temerity to think of becoming independent?
Where was the vow to strengthen devolution and make Holyrood a powerhouse Parliament – the best devolved legislature in the world?
Where was the promise to have Scotland lead this most Disunited of Kingdumbs? Or the recognition as an equal partner in the shaping of these island’s peoples?
Where is the belief that devolution would kill nationalism stone dead, when in fact, it is British nationalism which is killing devolution stone dead?
Where is the media interrogating the murderers of this Scottish democracy as opposed to slating those who are attempting to maintain it as “stunt artists”?
We always knew democracy to be a weak plant. It has had even less roots since the various annexations and “Acts of Union” which have rendered these assembled rocks in the North Atlantic as nothing more than Greater England, or better yet, Wetminster rule, north, south, east, west.
I salute the SNP MPs for making their stand today – a stand made sincerely, bravely and honestly against the shamocracy that makes up the current UK politic. I urge my compatriots and fellow Members of Plaid Cymru to draw lessons from today and see (maybe for the first time) the true nature of the snarling, undemocratic, sneery Westminster Leviathan.
We’ve had our fill of their thieving, dishonest, undemocratic, hypocritical ways.
Basta! And may this be a sign that this Disunited Kingdumb will (finally) crumble to dust – it will not be mourned in this, or many another household.
Hey all , reeling from today and yesterday.
At the risk of changing the tempo a little bit.
Yesterday they took some important powers.
What were the powers, what subjects, what departments, what areas, where are their offices, how many are employed there, who are the managers, what are the budgets and (at least for now) who controls them.
By Monday all those ‘power grab areas’ suffering the grab, will start to feel and see a change in staff and managerial policy. Nothing surer.
We’re going to need a plan.
I’m as made up as anyone about the walk out, and the 1500 members joining the SNP in one day… but keep the other eye on the above… follow the money. Lets get a plan.
It has long been suggested that there exists an organisation which rules the roost over the UK’s broadcast and print medias.
Today we have evidence that this is the case:-
Is it not the case that from the moment Ian Blackford and his MPs left the chamber every media outlet in the country spontaneously branded the action as a stunt – what a coincidence.
Worm-tongue Mundell is at the back of this fiasco right up to his scrawny neck & shitey wee tartan tie!
I do have two conditions for voting in a referendum, you are resident in Scotland and you have a Scottish income tax code. Anyone not wanting to pay their tax to Scotland would suggest to me they are not likely to be fully committed to Scotland.
I’m currently on holiday in England but when I visit any tourist sites classed as charities I decline gift aid as this seems to be sending tax income for resources like the SNHS elsewhere. Gift aid is often used by the well off to divert income tax money to keep them living in the style they have become accustomed to, whilst effectively depriving essential services of cash. Use gift aid cautiously, not all charities are as deserving as others.
Last night I said I wasn’t sure if the SNP should walk out or not. I was thinking of permanently walking out and that doesn’t appear to be what has happened considering that they all voted tonight.
Anyway today’s walkout certainly brought the power grab to the top of the MSM agenda and that is most welcome. I doubt they could have ignored it so has worked out great.
What’s next?
Guess we’ll just have to wait and see what Westminster’s plans are and after today I’m more positive that walking out for good might be the start of something. It would certainly bring Independence into focus and could not be ignored by the MSM.
It’s a big weapon but with only one missile and needs to be used wisely. Maybe just as the second referendum is announced. All or nothing, the equivalent of going all in at poker. Call my bluff!
@John Clark
Hi Tartantory 🙂
The ironic words of Willian Hague circa 1997 whose party has undergone a fundamental transformation from the fresh future agenda to a stale past. The compassion is gone, freedom and democracy stops at the postcode boundaries of EC1, EC2, EC3, EC4, principles are dust, repeating past mistakes and it is most certainly not leading Europe.
Today has been an excellent day for the ‘brawlers’ –more ‘stunts’ please in Scotland’s aspirational journey to autonomy and self- determination- it’s the only way now to deal with narcissistic bullying.
‘Too often in the past, we gave the impression that we didn’t care enough about local government…
Today I’d like to tell you about an open Conservatism, that is tolerant, that believes freedom is about much more than economics, that believes freedom doesn’t stop at the shop counter.
I’d like to tell you about a democratic, popular Conservatism that listens, that has compassion at its core. I want to tell you about a changing Conservatism that acknowledges its mistakes. I also want to tell you about a proud Conservatism that has served this nation well and will do so again. But we won’t just be a party of power: we will be a party of principle too…
And I believe in a Europe of nation states… All Conservatives want to see a strong and prosperous Europe in which Britain plays a leading part…Remember, we believe in democracy. And a democracy that stretched from Crete to the Orkneys could not be sustained…’
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/1997/oct/11/conservatives2003.conservatives
And a democracy that cannot be stretched beyond the WM bubble cannot be sustained.
Reluctant Nationalist @ 22:35,
It’s not about me. I’m not proud anyway, I’ll cheer any vote for indy from anybody for any reason. Especially the one that takes us over the line.
You reluctant about that too, maybe, then…?
And the award for best eyrolling goes to SNPs Wee Kirsty Blackman for her outstanding performances in such TV moments as
*Listen to the state of this Numpty* *Do we have to hear more Tory shite* and the all time classic *Does anybody on earth really believe THIS GUY!*
The awards for wanker of the day were given to Tory MP Alberto Costa for his role in *Eye matter* and Labours Paul Sweeney for *What have I said*, in abstentia, coz he never turned up
Very impressed with SNP actions today. Woke up this morning and there was nothing about the power grab – not the case now! Where are the hard questions to Labour and Liberal Democrats whose MPS and MSPs are at odds?
On a different note the utter contempt for Scotland’s elected representatives and the people they represent led to a hefty donation to the Scottish Independence Foundation. Turn the anger into energy for change.
Thepnr says:
13 June, 2018 at 10:58 pm
Hi Tartantory ?
Hi Alex!! 🙂 Were you’re ears burning last night? We were half expecting to see you in Brechin! 😉
Another great front page in The National to-morrow and they have tweeted:
We’ve put thousands of extra copies out … so don’t let us down!
Buy an extra copy and leave on buses, waiting rooms etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party
Showing 19500 as of now-UP 1500 from b4 noon. Hopefully it will surpass those Tory scum by tomorrow sitting at 124,000 dobbers.
But where is Labour in Scotland today? I suspect we have just seen the final hole in the hull though with media assistance it will probably appear to take a while to sink. A bit like the fake LibDems. Labour in Scotland is the final impediment to independence.
FMQs will be interesting tomorrow.The Labour Party is of course in the wrong position on the Constitutional question. Below is James Maxton’s vision for Scotland. I know where Maxton and Keir Hardie would be standing today.
“Give us our parliament in Scotland. We will start with no traditions. We will start with ideals. We will start with purpose, with courage. We will start with the aim and the object that there will be 134 men and women pledged to 134 Scottish constituencies, to spend their whole brain power, their whole courage and their whole soul in making Scotland into a country in which we can take people from all the nations of the earth and say : this is our land, this is our Scotland ,these are our men, our works, our women and children: can you beat it?”
Down South the attack on Jeremy Corbyn intensifies, lots of it now coming from his own party. This has dangers for us. The establishment that controls the UK will never allow Corbyn to be PM. But a tame Blairite would be OK. If Corbyn goes we might see General Election. If there is we should fight it on the single issue of assuming independence if we achieve a Scottish majority. If we threaten that there probably wont be an Election!
There is talk of petitions, how quaint, like some comfy old armchair. Bullies eat petitioners for breakfast.
People in the streets, bringing cities and towns to a standstill, occupying media offices and hqs and generally provoking the system to do its worst. People forcefully demonstrating to the smug anglo-unionist hierarchy that their country will not be treated like some third-rate colony might just be more on message.
Like most there was a sigh when I watched the votes being passed and the 19 minutes blocked and not allowed to be discussed.
Then today happened and in one step showed that we’re not going to take this lying down. The Scottish people voted for a government to stand up for what is right and just they did it for everyone who thinks that this is wrong.
It will live long in the memory of those who will remember this day as one where we watched those elected take a stand against a dictatorship at Westminster.
What happens now will be interesting and we’ll see that in the coming days and weeks ahead.
This is the begining…
@Bobp
Length of residency was question 18 on the consultation:
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/12/4043/349118
No idea what the implementation timescale would be, it is bound to take time so as to be legally watertight, including human rights and equalities.
Cheers Breeks, didn’t catch it early in the thread, too many tabs everywhere right now and so much btl to catch up on 😉
I’ve transposed that entire link for anyone who hasn’t clicked on it and read it…this I think was originally from an FB post by that linked name: Helen Armet:
‘Copy of post from Gordon Blackhall to Ian Blackford (not sure of the relationship though) which is most interesting albeit, I’m no legal expert ref The Act of Union.
—————————————————————————————————
“The Act and Treaties of Union is a Union of 2 EQUAL PARTNERS.
It is also a condition of Union that one partner cannot subjugate the will of the other. (That would mean they are NOT equal, which is clearly the opposite of the Act’s wording.)
That’s before we factor in Scots Law and Sovereignty of the People of Scotland, both of which are legally protected by the very Act of Treaties of Union itself.
Any breach of those 2 aspects is also a breach of the Union, ending it.
So why, you may ask, has Scotsgov not invoked these breaches of the Act?
Simply put, because, technically, they have not happened yet.
The Continuity Bill has not yet been legally challenged as yet (a lawyers letter stating possible intent, is NOT an advancement of legal action, it is merely at this stage posturing) so there has been no subjugation of Scots Law as yet.
This will change with the passing of the Brexit Bill without Scottish Legislative Consent Motion (subjugation of the Sovereign Scots People’s express desire re: devolution, voted for by plebiscite) or by an ACTUAL court case challenging the Holyrood Continuity Bill (Subjugation of Scots Law by way over writing it, contrary to the terms of the Act and Treaties of Union, which specifically protect Scots Law “in perpetuity” (forever).
The Brexit Bill has yet to passed as yet either, but the legal intent, will be known by the time it is required to be sent to the EU for ratification, by EU27.
That legally approved statement of intent is also a reasonable legal trigger for Scottish action to claim that WM has breached the terms of the Act and Treaties of Union by means of Subjugation of Scots Law, in respect of Wm not having Legislative Consent from Holyrood, and Wm over writing Scots Law with WM law, in respect to the Holyrood Continuity Bill regarding the 111 powers under dispute, which the Continuity Bill lays legal claim to under Scots Law, based on the principle of Devolution, “what is not specifically reserved is Devolved”.
Because Devolution is the Expressed will of Sovereign Scots by plebiscite, any over ruling of the Continuity bill is both subjugation of Scots people’s sovereignty AND subjugation of Scots Law which wrote the Continuity Bill, claiming legal rights over the 111 powers which clearly fall under the Devolved powers remit.
The above is all about TIMING, go to early, and a legal challenge will fail.
This is why WM have tried to provoke the Scotsgov into a mistake on timing so they can claim legal incompetence.
The Scotsgov are on the ball with this, hence the WM desperation.”
https://twitter.com/HelenArmet/status/1006835530577973248/photo/1
yesindyref2
Who are you tellin to “Fuck Off”
Ya fuckin wanker, if you don’t like what I post then don’t fuckin read ya fuckin idiot.
Same goes for you THEPNR.
Who the fuck do you two think you are.
If I have an opinion about the English then I have the same right as anybody else to say what I think. And not be censored by a couple of wankers like you two.
Are you two English by any chance???
If so, pack your bags and head south back to your homeland.
WANKERS !!!
Fuck,,next you’ll be tellin me to get my England top on for the World Cup.
You can fuck right off!!!
The unity displayed by the parliamentary SNP members is a delight to see. May & Corbyn’s fellow MP’s would as soon sack them as back them!
Warm welcome to all new SNP members.
You can get heavily involved in the work of the party or if you are not able to commit to that there are plenty of less demanding rolls.
The main thing is you are a member of the only party which can drive independence.
Being a member sends a strong message to the enemies of Scotland especially at a time like this.
@Dave McEwan Hill
“The Labour Party is of course in the wrong position on the Constitutional question”
Not really Dave, not from their point of view. The MPs are doing as well as Corbyn, which isn’t great, but the MSPs are backing the SNP over Devolution, and still are. They are steering a difficult path because most of their members are NO voters (currently), some very strongly so. I hope the FM goes easy on them tomorrow, today’s friends (as far as Devo goes) are tomorrow’s allies.
Labour are not a party of Independence, but they are a party of Devolution. They should be judged on that alone.
@Indy2
Your losing it now yah daftie. If you’d any self respect you would GO TO BED!
Just catching up with events. Good for Ian Blackford and the SNP MPs for walking out on that farce of a democracy.
There is no point in carrying on with this charade. Let’s draw, regretfully perhaps, to the conclusion, that the only option is an independent state empowered to make our own laws and treaties.
Farewell UK. It wasn’t a good experience but, as everything is, it was a learning experience.
Hurrah for Ian and the SNP.
After being so dejected they didn’t walk out yesterday look at today. Smart move all round and maximum publicity. Couldnt have been better.
Can’t wait for Bannockburn.
May will not want to have a snap election now.
yes indy 2
Labour are not a party of Independence, but they are a party of Devolution. They should be judged on that alone.
Cobblers- with the greatest of respect
Judge them on the vow, on the plans for federalism (joke), on their cowardice on abstaining on any major vote to keep May and her tories in. They walk with the tories against Scotland
indy 2
Try some mindfulness training and a swear box!
Come back when you have something worthy of reading.
Cheers
Sweet dreams
The pretendy “sovereignty” of the Scots, exposed as the fraud it has always been.
Is Nicola going to rise to assert it?
As I have been saying, Scotland can forget about independence for the next 622 years at least.
yesindy2ref, you should know by now there is no Scottish Labour Party, they will do what their bosses tell them. You forgotten what Lamont said? from an article in the Independent in august 2014
quote
Ed Miliband’s leadership faced further turmoil yesterday when two former Labour first ministers accused him of contributing to the resignation of Johann Lamont.
The leader of Scottish Labour dramatically resigned on Friday with a thinly veiled attack on Mr Miliband by saying that some in Westminster regarded her party as a “branch office”. In a stepping-up of pressure on the Labour leader, former first minister Lord McConnell said that Mr Miliband had questions to answer, while his predecessor, Henry McLeish, said that the party faced a problem of “historic, epic proportions”.
Ms Lamont’s resignation sparked calls for a heavy hitter to take her place, with one Labour MP calling for Gordon Brown to stand because he was a “towering figure”. Mr Miliband also faced embarrassment yesterday with a report that Tony Blair believes the current Labour leader will not win the election. The former PM denied the story in The Daily Telegraph but the report served to heighten concerns among Labour MPs over Mr Miliband’s leadership. Senior Labour figures are also concerned at the role of Douglas Alexander, Labour’s election co-ordinator, whom they blame for an ineffective campaign from the party during the referendum.
Announcing her resignation in an interview with the Daily Record, Ms Lamont said: “Just as the SNP must embrace that devolution is the settled will of the Scottish people, the Labour Party must recognise that the Scottish party has to be autonomous and not just a branch office of a party based in London.
“Scotland has chosen to remain in partnership with our neighbours in the UK. But Scotland is distinct and colleagues must recognise that. There is a danger of Scottish politics being between two sets of dinosaurs – the Nationalists who can’t accept they were rejected by the people and some colleagues at Westminster who think nothing has changed.”
unquote
Rock (8th October 2017 – “The shoogly peg”):
“I can say with 100% confidence that Saint Theresa is not going to give permission to Nicola to hold another referendum before Brexit has been completed.
I can say with 99% confidence that Nicola will not dare defy Saint Theresa.
If she does, the recent events in Catalonia will look like a picnic in comparison.
The fascist British state is far far worse than the fascist Spanish state.
The worst part of it, more than half of Scots will be on the side of the fascist British state.
After all the Irish and Scots will remain “British” until judgement day and beyond.”
@Rock
Hahhaha You’re good for a laugh you absolutely ridiculous little man.
@Hamish100 / @Lenny Hartley
Well, we’ll see, but one step at a time, and the first is for Labour to continue to support the Continuity Bill, which they are doing. Unlike the Tories who oppose it, oppose any changes to clause 11, oppose farmers and fishers, and opposed devolution though they pay it lip service. At the moment the Tories stick out like a sore thumb.
Nurse! Doctor! Vet!
Lenny, did you get a 10 second power cut a few minutes ago? It was like the world went out!
Ah the smell of coprolite is strong with this one.
(Coprolite is a noun meaning fossilised animal faeces. The word literally means “dung stone” and comes from the Greek kopros (dung) and lithikos (stone). Usually coprolites are animal manure and, between 1860 and 1890, were mined commercially in Cambridgeshire England and processed to be used as a fertiliser. When you think of it, it’s not that much of a surprise, after all it is fossilised shit. What is also not too surprising is that the word has also come to describe a person who is old, set in their ways and a thoroughly disagreeable arsehole as well. So if you have a boss, teacher or acquaintance who fits that description, congratulations, you know a coprolite.)
Aren’t we lucky.
Yesindy ref2 no power cut here, we getbour leccy from Argyll. Just got out of bed to email Manx Radio, they read out the front page of the National for the first time, off course they to say it supports Indy but they never mention the other papers are anti Indy. They usually read out the Scotsmans front page but not tohis morning, hope it continues.
Rock r u sure its no 621 years.past your bedtime or have you changed shifts?
@Thepnr
I don’t think his program got updated with the Westminster walkout and Sturgeon’s response.
Malfunction! Need input! No disassemble!
So Murray Foote (Mr Vowman of the Record) now supports independence for Scotland, apparently the power grab’s really ruffling unionist feathers eh…as the Rev just tweeted…Ha ha ha…but of course…also…welcome aboard.
https://twitter.com/magnusllewellin/status/1007039502509015040
Rev’s tweeted a section of the paywalled Times article where Foote is declaring his new position:
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland
@K1
Now that Murray Foote is onside the world really doesn’t need to tilt much further in our direction. Come post on Wings Mr Foote and get some real discussion.
Welcome to those who have changed their minds.
Certainly hit the news in other countries and stuff, though Nana might ahve better links:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/uk-government-faces-more-bruising-brexit-debate-in-commons/2018/06/13/4074fc6c-6f06-11e8-b4d8-eaf78d4c544c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.dcca5ccd661a
https://www.zeit.de/news/2018-06/13/grossbritannien-wirbel-im-britischen-parlament-wegen-brexit-streit-zwischen-london-und-edinburgh-13181402
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/all-snp-mps-walk-out-during-pmqs-after-ian-blackford-expelled-by-speaker_uk_5b2100a5e4b0adfb826fc2bb?guccounter=1
@Lenny
Ah, that makes sense, much shorter distance.
Now we await the crossing of the floor for Labour MSP’s in our parliament. Get of board or get to fuck. It’s simple. You either support Scotland or you don’t. We will not be shafted and destroyed by the Tories either here or down south.
You side with the WM Tories you are against Scotland. End.
Aye Mr P Joanna Cherry is one of the many talented people on the SNP benches at Westminster. They’re too good to be in Westmidden. I did notice how animated JCherry was before and during the walk out. She was quite the cheerleader. Good on her.
Always had a soft spot for Philippa Whitford. I saw her at an early 2014 meeting. Once she spoke about the dangers to Scotland’s NHS of not being independent, she truly shone. She, Jonna and others have sacrificed lucrative and successful careers to dedicate themselves for Scots and Scotland.
The longer their likes are at Westminster their talents are not being used to Scotland’s best advantage. Much better for them to be in Scotland’s own parliament shaping our Kingdom, country and Nation for all who choose to live here.
Enjoyed today. Well done to SNP MP’s, the only MP’s that stood up for Scotland last night and today. Looks like they had a plan after all.
Yup, you don’t feck with Scotland.
http://archive.is/C2bxx
“THE SNP leadership has signalled it will engage in guerrilla tactics at Westminster to “frustrate” Theresa May’s Government as another constitutional clash between Edinburgh and London looms on the forthcoming Brexit Trade Bill. ”
and read on, it’s worth it.
I’m lovin’ it!
Further on in that article (Blackford):
“The Nationalists, he said, would use Commons procedures to oppose Government in every conceivable way and have an impact on its business on a “day to day and week by week basis”.”
But … but … we’re better together!
Yes Thpnr, let’s have Mr Foote become a nasty cybernat and post btl… 😉
@Indy2 says: 13 June, 2018 at 11:34 pm:
“Fuck,,next you’ll be tellin me to get my England top on for the World Cup.
You can fuck right off!!!”
You are well across the line of what is classed under the law as racial abuse. If your object is to stir up Wingers to support such abuse you will fail here on Wings.
Such abuse is not welcome here. Independence for Scotland is nothing whatsoever to do with hate for the people of England, or indeed for the people of any other country.
It isn’t even about separation from England, (either country or Kingdom), it is about ending the union with the Kingdom of England that is supposedly presently the Kingdom of Scotland’s only partner kingdom in the United Kingdom.
hat doesn’t mean we must separate because we hate each other. Most families have children who grow up and leave the home but they do not leave the family when they do so. They grow up and lead independent lives.
The object of splitting with the Kingdom of England is to end the United Kingdom and that means the Kingdom of Scotland is neither leaving the country of England nor the Kingdom of England. It is ending the union between the two kingdoms and here’s a point for you to consider.
In 1834 the Palace of Westminster burned to the Ground. The present Parliament building, including the Elizabeth Tower that contains the clock & the bell known as Big Ben, (Aye! that’s right – the clock is NOT named Big Ben the biggest bell in the tower is named Big Ben). Were commissioned to be designed and built as part of the Union and that means both Kingdoms own both the building including the Elizabeth clock tower and the peal of bells, (I may be wrong but memory say the peal of bells are called The Westminster Chimes).
Not only that but many of the other buildings in Whitehall and Westminster are ministries that belong to both Kingdoms so Scotland owns a share of the most of the joint resources.
What Scotland does NOT own is a share of the so called National Debt that Isn’t a national debt as it is 100% run up by Westminster and Westminster is now the de facto parliament of the country of England and Scotland is not allowed to borrow so cannot be responsible for the debts run up.
Most Wingers do not hate either England or the English – many though hate being in an abusive partnership/marriage with the Westminster Establishment. Like many other Wingers I have many English friends and relations. My first wife was English, (and in case you wondered we were separated by her death and not by a divorce). So I have a 50% English son.
You can take your hatred with you when you go and you will find little support for it here on Wings. Mind you I cannot speak for everyone.
@ K1
Foote has taken pelters on Twitter for every Tory injury, as Indy suppport just bring up The Vow constantly.
I see Stu is saying if he can move on, so can others and welcomes Foote.
A proper Rev underneath that hairy exterior?
These last couple of days have been strange to say the least. However, I’m not complaining. We live in interesting and exciting times. If Murray, JK Rowling even Gordon Brown, draw a line and say the circumstances have changed and a Scotland embedded in Europe is a better prospect than Tories telling us to commit suicide then I am happy to let bygones be bygones. We need as many as possible to pull together to make the future work. The past cannot be changed.
We need all and everyone from any side now Valerie, I’m with the Rev, we can cast up afterwards if we’ve a mind to. But right now, Scotland has to become ‘One’ voice.
We don’t have to forgive the likes of Foote, we just need him to vote Yes and fight on our side on the lead up. He will be getting hell from his own side on this too…he will not be alone as all those ‘devolutionists’ now have to choose and face the consequences if they do not alter their positions.
Let’s maintain the high ground here. There will be no Vow 2…now eh? They could never pull it off again if the original Vowman has now disavowed his former stance. 😉
(A proper strategist ah think 😉 )
@ Peffers: “It isn’t even about separation from England”
In reality, away from semantic blurs, of course it is. Stop being such an obsequious little amateur stasi.
@Valerie / @K1
He’s a good man the Rev, and right too. I hope we see Murray Foote on the “Journey to YES” series on Wings, AND that we give him a good welcome.
A lot of people are down on the Record, well, I used to read it and it was fine, I also knew people from the Record in olden days when I was single and spent most of my time in the pub, and they were straight up and down. Liked a drink too 🙂
McWhirter was a Devo-Maxer but I think realised it would never happen, and perhaps that it wouldn’t work. Many others didn’t. and in 2012 one-third wanted DevoMax or at least more powers, with less for Indy, about the same for NO, and around 8% abolish Holyrood.
Well, that 8% to abolish is still there, and perhaps represent half the “Unionist” posters we see around, but the Devo-Maxers and some NOes are thinking again.
Welcome to YES, whoever you are.
@Indy2
My old dear’s English. She raised 4 kids, mostly on her own. My Scottish dad wasnae around much when i grew up.
My English old dear voted Yes in Indy Ref1, she’ll be voting Yes in Indy ref2.
She’s lived in Scotland 70% of her life, still has a Cumbrian twang, mixed with a lovely Fife lilt.
I find your comments insulting and distasteful and harmful. Your artificial intelligence is dated and wants re-booting.
Indy2, of course you have a right to speak your mind but when you meander off into insulting language and making up lists of who you think are ….the devil in your mind… you have to accept that others will take you to task…it is after all an open forum
@ YIR2
The words “Mon Then” spring to mind :). Westmonster has poked us in the chest one time too many and for the last time. The fightback has finally begun. If they want to f*** with our parliament then let’s **** with theirs.
Aye.
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1007047193763680256
Seriously, I’m frightened to go to bed in case we become Independent overnight and I miss it.
@ YIR2
That response was to your 1:12 and 1:14 posts obviously although I do agree with the final sentence of your post at 1:53 in its entirety. Warm welcome to YES whoever you are and whatever you held true in the past. It requires an inner strength to confront your beliefs and be prepared to change your mind. Welcome aboard.
yesindyref2 says:
14 June, 2018 at 2:10 am
Aye.
yes the pieces seem to be coming together, not long now i hope
@William Wallace
I’m going to have to go to bed, I’m getting all emotional.
46 years supporting Independence and I can smell it.
Smell it? I’m sitting in it 😎
@ YIR2
It’s comin yet for a’ that. We are so close. 🙂 GN 😉
@Bobp says: 13 June, 2018 at 10:26 pm:
“John clark 10.21pm I would insist on a 5 yr residency in Scotland before allowed a vote .this would thwart the daily mail reading tory economic retirees. Or do you and rjs have a problem with that as well?”
Perhaps they may have no problems with it but I do. There is already, and has been for years, a laid down stipulation that anyone from anywhere who is Mainly Resident in Scotland and is registered to vote in Scottish elections is considered to be One of the people of Scotland.
That is more than sufficient for the purpose. Now remember that it is a criminal offence to vote if you are registered to vote elsewhere. Thus the problem is NOT to attempt to prevent genuine Scottish Residents from voting but to make checks to prevent illegal voters.
In these days of massive computer power it is not beyond they authorities of the two kingdoms of the Union to cross-check the respective voters rolls and reject or void voters registered to vote in more than one country and to fine them heavily.
here is far bigger problems than immigrant people from England. The postal voting system was once restricted to only those able to prove their need. Now a postal vote is given for the asking and another loophole I have witnessed often as I did volunteer work almost all my life in homes, hospitals and hospices. I saw local councillors I knew well and local activists a knew well (cough!),helping people to fill in their voting slips and then saying just leave it with me and I’ll post it for you.
They obviously thus knew which ones to post and which to scrap. Not only that but they knew the names and addresses of those inmates/patients who said they were not going to vote. I also saw a Labour activist get a list of unoccupied council houses from a housing department Council official.
@Yesindyref2
Well whodathunk?
Shame he’s no longer an editor, but that still took courage. Well said and here’s to more taking the same tack.
Every vote counts.
@yesindyref2 says: 14 June, 2018 at 2:15 am:
“Seriously, I’m frightened to go to bed in case we become Independent overnight and I miss it.”
Think yourself bloody lucky. Earlier yesterday evening we suffered a power outage and I then fell asleep in the big chair and only awoke when the power returned when my radio came back on.
So I’m sitting here commenting at just after 03:05 AM and now so wide awake I can’t sleep. But I’m off to attempt to sleep now.
That was only the second power outage we have suffered here since I bough this cottage way back in 1970. Jings! 1970? It feels like only yesterday. The older you live the faster the years seem to hurry by.
Shouted out Yes! when aye heard the news on the wireless. 🙂
Wanna do something symbolic… consider wearing a black arm-band.. into both of the parliaments later today, excellent SNP politicians.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Ruth Davidson and her supporters do ‘stage’ an actual walkout of Holyrood at some point, they do seem to mimic and engage in rather tit-for-tat politics (plus steal all of our good bits).
Congratulations also goes to WingsScotland twitter, which has now passed 55K Followers, look upon that figure as 55% Yes!
This was and is the turning point.
But something touched me deep inside, the day, our devolution died…
And we go marching.
Something for folks to consider.
Respect is earned, NOT demanded. Scotland’s electorate, our parliament, our representation, our popular will, were all treated with utter contempt and consummate arrogance by the membership of Westminster.
15 minutes, 1 speaker and no debate on Brexit, devolved powers and legislative representation. The members of that howf on the Thames took from YOU without asking your permission. That is theft. It is stealing. It is a criminal act whatever way you look at it. When someone dared to complain? When your representation (those who had the courage) stood up in your name? They were treated with similar contempt by the house.
So, no. No I don’t feel we owe Westminster parliament any respect today, nor any of those who support its behaviour and that includes Scotland’s party of serial abstention, Labour. (clearly no longer the party of devolution) Oh, and it most certainly includes Scotland’s conservatives. The Libdems? They lost any respect I had for them a long time ago.
Not one of them stood up to defend THEIR devolution. It took a party of independence to do it for them.
Just to be crystal? I’m pretty certain Scotland’s electorate know how to hold a thing in utter contempt with equal conviction. After the past twenty four hours, I know I certainly do.
After the scenes we’ve witnessed in the past few days? It IS just about that time. Just a little longer (no too much you understand)
Scotland’s representation, our parliament, our democracy and our will weren’t just treated poorly. The were treated with contempt, arrogance and ignorance.
The constitutional ground in the UK has shifted seismically.Westminster itself has stated quite clearly that there is no partnership of equals. No pooling and sharing. No leading with… No broad shouldered bonhomie and clearly no Better Togetherness. That’s not how Westminster government works. Westminster is jealous of its power and entitlement, doesn’t play well with others and is prone to extremes of baby and bathwater syndrome when challenged.
Just to be clear? There’s no point in saying ‘I told you so’ people. No recriminations. No ‘why didn’t you see this coming’? We hold out our hand in friendship to new YES voters. No ifs, buts or mibbies. We need them and they need to know there’s a warm welcome and someone they can count on. Someone and something that won’t leave them out in the cold and alone.
For many, the past few days will have seen their worldview ripped out from under them. They’re going to be hurt, angry and feeling lost. They believed in something that betrayed them on a profoundly personal level. Something I think most folk in the indy movement can relate to, yes?
We can put this wrong to rights, but it’s going to take ALL of us together. We put rosettes and notions of indy pigeonholing in the drawer. There is only the principle of independence. The protection of our inalienable human and civil rights.
Scotland’s future in Scotland’s hands.
All Scots. Old and new Scots alike.
That’s kinda what makes us a grown up population.
Hear Hear (or is it clap clap) Macart.
Morning Cactus 😉
Bobp @ 22:26,
FYI, I have consistently supported the necessity for a robust process of voter registration, including a requirement for a residency period, exactly for the reasons that others have given.
I made a formal submission in that regard (among other matters) to the SG consultation on electoral reform earlier this year. In my own name, not hiding behind any pseudonym. I presume it will be in the public record if you or anyone else cares to check.
Did you, by any chance?
All of which has nothing to do with the insupportable blanket disenfranchisement you started blowing off about, and which is never going to happen. Read the SG’s own position on that if you don’t believe me.
Meanwhile, I suggest trying to focus on real issues for a credible way to win in the actual prevalent circumstances, and quit wasting everyone’s time on counter-productive fantasies.
Morning William, aye liked yer laces, gotta keen aye 😉
What’s for lunch…?
#fmqs
And the lovely Nana for breakfast… gonna be yummy x
There’s a storm a coming in.
Listen to the wind blow…
Devolution is a Dodo.
K1 @ 23:33, and following,
(Just catching up on the thread again after a wee break. What a day!)
That’s a stonkingly good quote there. It really gave me heart. Somebody certainly seems to know what they’re doing there. Rings all the right bells for me.
Thanks also for all your subsequent postings. The cracks in the devolutionist camp are now really beginning to appear. And little wonder!
Yup, I’ll take any and all converts. Each person in the public eye who shifts may well take many more with them.
But no-man’s land is shrinking as we watch, and everyone will have to take a side. So I think we may well soon reach the mercy distance.
yesindyref2 @ 23:49:
Fair enough. But I find it hard to see how NorthBritLab can possibly maintain that position with any credibility given what their London masters have just (not) done. The Northern Branch will be attempting to take political cognitive dissonance to a new stratospheric high. Not a convincing look.
Unless they do their own UDI. Can’t see it myself, though.
So I’m with DMH on this one, for exactly the reason you state! =grin=
yesindyref2 @ 01:12,01:14,
=laugh= Pure dead brilliant!
John Clark @ 22:38
I stand suitably corrected, John. Heh, heh. Glad though you took it in the same spirit with which it was intended.
Yiv a keen aye yirsel Cactus (spotted me nae bather). Would hate to take you on in a poker game wi yir coolness and ultimate poker face.
Lunch? FMQ BBQ. Roasted Tory with Labour cheese and a side helping o Rennie Sauce and a snide portion o Greens. 🙂
I was so sickened by the media calling this a ‘stunt’, I too joined the SNP. I also made up a DIY bumper sticker for my car ‘#DissolveTheUnion – Big Enough, Rich Enough, Smart Enough and Had Enough.
If the word hasn’t already gone out from party HQ every SNP branch should be out on every High St this weekend signing up new members and handing out leaflets, badges etc.
RN @1:05
You ok RN did Auld Bob hit a nerve… 🙂
Links
https://news.gov.scot/news/recommendations-to-strengthen-progress-on-foi-handling
https://tarffadvertiser.blogspot.com/2018/06/all-fur-coat-and-nae-knickers.html
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/06/120618-day-calling-of-pre-2021.html
Watch from 11am
https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/HOOP2?t=1528869424566&t=1528902040360
Dissolve the union
http://www.barrheadboy.com/?p=999
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/06/13/the-sixth-circle-of-devolution-hell/
http://rbs.postach.io/post/stay-or-walk
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2018/06/13/why-this-good-news-on-the-scottish-economy-is-reported-but-other-examples-are-not/
http://newsnet.scot/commentary/the-westminster-crone/
Meet @TheMorayCouncil’s new @theSNP minority administration. Here’s what you need to know:
https://twitter.com/moraysnp/status/1006862786297769984
Mundell summoned to Holyrood
http://www.parliament.scot/S5_Finance/General%20Documents/20180613_Convener_to_Secretary_of_State_for_Scotland.pdf
‘Glen’ signifies Scottish whisky only, EU court advises
https://euobserver.com/tickers/142027
https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2018/06/13/watch-the-despicable-behaviour-of-a-tory-mp-as-the-snp-fights-against-a-power-grab-in-parliament/
https://policyandpoliticsblog.com/2018/06/13/how-majoritarianism-endures-in-the-structures-of-the-uks-devolved-institutions/
https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/06/13/brexit-the-end-of-the-beginning/
May in fresh standoff with Tory rebels over Brexit demands
http://archive.is/Cy9IO
As an ex bouncer I can assure you that did not look like a “pub brawl”.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/brexit/news/95969/jeremy-corbyn-suffers-biggest-brexit-rebellion-and
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-investment-vehicle-linked-to-hardline-brexiteer-rees-mogg-warns-of-brexit-risks-1.3529280
https://evolvepolitics.com/nhs-chiefs-are-needlessly-handing-tax-avoidance-advisors-millions-in-vital-nhs-funding/
It would be nice to hear Michel Barnier’s comments on that Gordon Blackhall advice about the Treaties of Union.
If events do follow that path, and I think they will, it could come upon us very quickly. There will be no transition, the Union will simply cease to exist. There will need to be some transition of course, but it will be liaison between two distinct sovereign nations without any Union.
All the EU Membership speculation about whether Scotland is a new Nation, Continuer Nation, or somewhere in between will cease to be speculation and conjecture. There will be a reality to deal with.
We were quick off the mark with impact assessments for Brexit, and I’d like to think we have impact assessments ready for these events. Not least of which should be having Europe fully up to speed with what is heading in their direction.
BTW, reading the thread just now as I was too busy last night.
Some of you need to calm down and now this the time to support each other.
Sometimes this sites commentators owing to longevity and “weight” can create a closed group and jump on opinions that they don’t agree with.
Those that have been around since the beginning will recall that I was rounded on for days for asserting Trident can’t be moved. Wings nearly banned me and some of you called me a Unionist plant.
Turns out I was right, your welcome.
Anyway, rant over.
Good morning, Nana,
Thank you, for your links. Kettle’s on!
🙂
DaveMcEwanHill. that is a great quote from Maxton and Hardie , it would be superb to fulfil that statement.
I have a certain sympathy with a five year residency required for the next referendum . There are many foreign students in Scotland who would have the right to vote and then return to their own country which for me would leave Scotland in a similar situation to now with another country / countries having undue influence.
May I raise a glass, actually a cup of coffee, to all the doddery old Grandads and Grannies and all the young whipper snappers who can’t tell night from day – I’m looking at you Cactus – in thanks for adding their best efforts to keeping me sane and optimistic in the face of all the obstacles.
Well aren’t things turning well. Now we have Murray Foote agreeing with Scottish independence, and HE IS MOST WELCOME. I don’t care what people previously thought, the indy movement is a broad kirk, and we welcome all people who have come to realise what an utter depraved corrupt cesspit Westminster is.
This is a good sign, when diehard unionists start to wake up to independence and why Scotland NEEDS it, then we are on the right path. 2014 was a long time ago, Scotland is moving on, and welcomes all who support independence
If you are reading this and have just joined the indy side, then come to the next indy march in Bannockburn/Stirling on the 23rd. This will be a great day, and nothing will scare the willies oot of unionists and the westminster apparatchiks than a huge turnout. If you are not sure, just come along, as everybody is friendly and has a great time. Bring yer dug, yer kids and even yer granny too.
Not long now. It’s coming yet.
Macart @3.19am
Agree with every word. You have put into words exactly where we’re at.
Waking up this morning that seismic shift is clearer to me than it was yesterday. We’ve hit the buffers at last and now it gets interesting.
@Shinty – Love that bumper sticker. No copyright I hope!
Englands parliament is Westminster
It routinely ignores and insults Scotland and Ireland
It had ten times as many English MP,s there as Scottish and Irish so it outvotes Scotland Ireland Wales combined
Its Englands parliament
Through that parliament Scotland is controlled by England
In Scotland we are controlled by English people who vote against Scottish independence they make up a third of the NO vote
It is England that Scotland wants independence from so England should not have a vote on Scottish independence
The response I always get from them is ” you hate English people”
Let me be clear I have English people as friends I lived in England for decades I like England and my friends many of them say they are amazed that they are allowed to vote on Scottish independence because they are voting for Scotlands future and not their own country’s future some done even vote because they think it is not for the, to decide.
I often get English people saying so if English people cannot vote in a Scottish independence referendum how do you define being English ? My response is that being English or Scottish or Irish is already defined…look it up…check what it is to be a British citizen or conditions for getting a British passport and apply the same rules it’s not rocket science.
I also hear the term blood and soil but that is an old Nazi term and I’m not a Nazi nor do I wish to be one.
It is undemocratic for England to decide in Westminster that Scotland shall not have a say in its own affairs and it is undemocratic for English people living in Scotland to prevent Scotland from controlling its own affairs.
In 2014 it was the third of the NO vote that is English people that swung it to victory for the NO side.
If English people did not vote in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum the YES side would have won easily ,that is a FACT
A tiny proportion of English people in Scotland voted for Scottish independence , tiny, some are partners of Scottish people some have lived in Scotland a long time some are socialists who get a voice here but all of them have one thing in common they are English people and will always be English people unless after independence they change their nationality and that is unlikely you can see every day how patriotic English people are and how they take over areas of other countries they inhabit ,the same as any other peoples I might add .
They have their own country’s interest at heart…Englands…not Scotlands.
english people living in Scotland can vote in all other elections but they have no place voting in a Scottish independence referendum ,they are not Scottish they are English.
I am not English I am Scottish
Even during the two decades I lived in England I was Scottish not English
It’s simple democracy
I second what Robert Louis says about the Indy march. Glasgow was my first ever march and I was very apprehensive about it but I travelled with a fantastic bunch of people from Yes Perth City and had a brilliant day. Meeting Wingers at the Wings stall was the icing on the cake.
So if you’d like to be at Bannockburn but feeling unsure I’d say go for it. You’ll never regret it.
And when you tell your grandchildren the story of Scottish independence you’ll be able to say “I was there.”
Terrence callachan at 0753,
Away and b*gger off with your racist p*sh, you’ll not find any takers here.
Important point to counter some statements on here
It is England that Scotland wants independence from and for that reason alone English people no matter where they live be it England Scotland or elsewhere should not be able to vote in a Scottish independence referendum
REFERENDUM I repeat , that does not include elections, of course people who are English can vote in elections in Scotland if they live in Scotland, they do not and should not have to require a tax code or pat tax in Scotland all they should require to vote in elections in Scotland is to reside here.
But a referendum is different from an election,nobody is being elected in a referendum ,a referendum is to determine one important matter and in this discussions context it is Scottish independence that is relevant
Brilliant SNP getting plenty coverage now from BBC.
Terence Callaghan, awa an’ bile yer head, Scotland wants nae racist pish.
Macart 3.19 am. If i was previously a no voter (which i was’t) I certainly wouldnt be one after reading that post. Illuminating and thoughtful.
Cheers Nana
The dug’s on a roll these past few days. Clearly the break agreed with him. 🙂
Some people have changed their tune.
People voted NO because of a pack of Westminster lies. Just the same since 1928. Liars always get found out.
The mess that Westminster are making is just appalling. Amendment on amemdent on amendment. They haven’t got a clue what they are trying to do. Neither has anyone else. Just chaos. A total waste of time and money. Their fake haverings. Voting away people’s rights. They are trying to ruin the world economy. They are tanking the UK economy. They haven’t got a clue. Sanctioning and starving people. The citizens they are supposed to protect.
A shower of Tory/unionist bastards. They are only interested in themselves and lining their own pockets. People just need to look at them. They are so out of touch. The psycho bastards at Westminster are trying to destroy the Scottish economy. They have been milking Scotland for £Billions. To pay for their fraud and criminality. Disgusting people. Keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Most of them should be in jail. They will try anything if they think they can get away with it. They can’t.
Labour, LibDems are useless. Imagine a Scottish MP voting for Wales. They voted for Brexit. What planet are these people on?
Will people have to wait until the Tories do enough damage to bring them down. Like Thatcher. Labour are useless. Abstaining.
Andrew Barrie MP for West Aberdeenshire has just spluttered his way through an interview on Radio Shortbread.
He was saddened that Westminster just ran out of time for Scotland yesterday and we should not feel angry about this. I hope the people of West Aberdeenshire feel the same about him.
Remember folks Westminster really loves Scotland but has no time for the place.
Good morning Smallaxe, nice and windy here today 🙂
Morning Macart, not just the dug. You’re doing rather well yourself 🙂
Morning Cactus 🙂
From the massive surge in membership seems the SNPs actions over the past couple of days have hit the right chord.
It brought the the betrayal of the devolution settlement to the fore in broadcast news and highlighted the contempt and arrogance held for Scotland’s benches by the house. Most folk won’t watch parliamentary TV, but they will watch mainstream news. No matter what spin the pundits and policy gonks put on it, a picture is worth a thousand words.
People saw.
Conservatives, Labour and Libdem in Scotland have every right to feel nervous today. Their actions and their votes marked them as surely as paint. They betrayed their OWN devolution settlement and left it to a party of independence to defend it. They saw a house act with appalling disdain toward its partner’s representation and the wishes of a population they represent.
Just for once they saw what happens to their representatives day in and day out in the mother of parliaments and clearly the did NOT like what they saw. They are right not to. They’ve been lied to, abused and derided by those they thought friends and partners. They’ve just found out what that partnership means to those … people.
Hands out people. Oh, and Tick tock Ms May.
To all who have just joined the SNP or the cause for Scotland’s independence.
*** A THOUSAND WELCOMES ***
The surge in support for the SNP these past couple of days shows that the people of Scotland (and beyond) WANT the SNP to stand up and be counted, to mention independence, to be brave and controversial.
There have been questions asked – why has support for SNP falling recently? It looks like it was maybe because of their lack of standing up for what we thought they believed in!?
THIS is what we’ve been waiting for. No more wishy-washing about.
THIS is what SNP members and voters NEED.
And we need MORE of it
It all feels like getting a second wind. Time to focus. I also think many proud Scots who voted No in 2014 will be wrangling with their thoughts over recent developments.
We need to be welcoming to anyone who changes their mind and all get together as a team, for Scotland, if we are going to carve a better future for our friends, families and generations to come.
Mistakes are in the past and not worth worrying about (all of us make them). It’s the future which counts now and what we do about it.
A few questions for today:-
What will Davidson, Leonard and Rennie go on today’s FMQs?
With tonight’s QT coming from a Plaid stronghold will Stuntgate be allowed to feature?
What if anything will Brillo and his mates have to say re Stuntgate on tonight’s This Week? What will there moment of the week be? and who will be the guests?
SNP walk out being discussed on Radio Scotland at 9 am.
Being discussed on BBC Radio Scotland Morning Call at 9 a.m.
Contact details
Phone 0500 92 95 00
Sms 80295
Email morningcallscotland@bbc.co.uk
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/bbcradioscotland
Twitter @bbcradioscot
Peffers 10.14,
Indeed indeed. There are some smart folk in the SNP, unmatched by any other party at Westminster.
I’m in my 50’s but counting sleeps until the Bannockburn AUOB.
Call Kaye sub to discuss SNP kicked out sorry walk out of Commons.Could some more controlled person than myself get on and explain the reality.
Stop dwelling on how people vote in 2014 IndtRef. Done and dusted. People have to get out and vote SNP now and give support. At every election.
A residential qualification would be acceptable in the next IndyRef. If that is manageable. Administration. The way things are going it might not be necessary. 2nd home owners should not be voting in any case. In the UK people can only vote from a main residential address. Although students were claiming otherwise. The electoral process in Scotland has been tightened up. The electoral rolls up date.
@Robert Kerr (10.17) –
😉
The big Heilanman done good so he did!
Who is the harpy currently on Radio Shortbread ranting on ‘absolute disgrace’ etc? Am I right, did I hear she lives in Sheffield??
ahundredthidiot says:
14 June, 2018 at 8:40 am
It all feels like getting a second wind. Time to focus. I also think many proud Scots who voted No in 2014 will be wrangling with their thoughts over recent developments.
Some of them have been wrangling their thoughts since 19th September 2014.
Coming soon: A big chance to redeem themselves, wash away that guilt. 🙂
It’s a very bad stunt . . . .
Says some daft old stunt.
Now some daft old bat is claiming the SNP is spending all our money on battlefield monuments.
I am astounded that these people can actually operate a telephone.
I have the impression that, since the shenanigans after 2014, with the great betrayal, BREXIT etc etc, Scotland is now poised like a coiled spring. All that pent up energy waiting to explode. Folk have had enough.
Folks, if you thought the last IndyRef campaign was amazing, just wait until you see the next one. 🙂
A wee comment about Foote.
I hated the Vow when it was published, recognising it’s illegality ( purdah ) and it’s inherent dishonesty. It was never going to be converted from platitude into legislation. You only have to watch decades of committees to realise that all would be discarded or diluted.
So for Foote to Repudiate his own creation is a massive “road to Damascus “ moment.
Do not underestimate the pain and heartache that such an act takes.
He will be seen as a ("Tractor" - Ed) to his own ranks, we know how unionist poster can be so I am guessing that he will be well and truly being flamed and trolled by his former supporters!
So welcome to a man who has had a hard road to travel. And if I am honest a certain amount of admiration for a man who must have known what doing so would entail.
So happy for you to join our ranks. I hope you have a thick skin for your twitter account is going to be full of Unionist bile… Your image will soon be adorning those icons of unionism the Belfast Bonfires.
OMG just heard daft woman on GMS blaming SNP for doing nothing but putting up monuments to battles and a waste of £9 billion on Scottish Parliament.
Fast thinking there should be an IQ test on politics before getting a vote.
Thanks to Dave McEwan Hill for posting the James Maxton quotation because I came across it months ago and forgot to note it:
“Give us our parliament in Scotland. We will start with no traditions. We will start with ideals. We will start with purpose, with courage. We will start with the aim and the object that there will be 134 men and women pledged to 134 Scottish constituencies, to spend their whole brain power, their whole courage and their whole soul in making Scotland into a country in which we can take people from all the nations of the earth and say : this is our land, this is our Scotland ,these are our men, our works, our women and children: can you beat it?”
Hard to think of anyone in BLiS______d today who believes such stirring stuff. If they truly are the “party of devolution”, now that the Tories have killed their baby, what are they going to do?
Over to Tricky Dickie Leonard *tries not to laugh* .
All former Nos welcome, though Mr Foote is a big surprise. Any one can make a mistake: I bought a pair of tartan trews once but they just weren’t me 😛 .
A lot of angry people posting and that includes myself. One thing we all can do is go to the Bannockburn march and persuade other yes voters to go.
If you are angry enough get to Stirling no matter the weather. Tell the world devolution is dead. Independence or continue to be treated like a colony.
To anybody slagging off Murray Foote or any other former no voter: I give you the olden days example of Thomas Randolph.
For a time Randolph opposed Robert the Bruce, he felt Bruce’s guerrilla tactics were unchivalrous and not how real knights conducted warfare.
Yet Randolph became one of Bruce’s most loyal lieutenants, capturing Edinburgh castle through the very kind of sneaky stratagem he had despised when in opposition.
So welcome all, and here’s to Foote doing a Bateman and spilling the beans on the Daily Record. (Unless of course the Record is planning to switch too…!)
Recent events show us what Devolution really was, and what it was actually meant to achieve.
It was sold as a mechanism to bring power and accountability closer to the Scottish people in response to calls for greater autonomy.
Some of those driving devolution might have even believed that. Others genuinely believed it wasn’t fixed but should evolve, which meant further powers would flow out from Westminster.
The last few years (Smith and all) exposes the reality that devolution was to be strictly limited. It was never going to develop to its maximum (DevoMax) and result in an Indy-lite, a short step away from full Indy.
The Tories were never keen, Labour more so because they saw devolution as a means of securing their fiefdom in Scotland.
Devolution was intended as a mechanism of thwart independence. That has clearly failed. Labour lost its fiefdom. An unthinkable and unlikely IndyRef1 only failed because of underhand tactics.
Now Westminster know that devolution has become a threat to the UK rather than a tool to be used to support it. I have little doubt far right hard Brexit Tories would cancel the whole devolution project now, if they could.
The last few days have revealed something else. When the Tories do attack devolution, there is a backlash they probably didn’t expect. If they remove/reduce/neuter the middle option and force Scots to choose Brexit UK or Indy hope, folks who previously wouldn’t have are now looking at Indy as the best option.
Never thought I’d every be reduced to tears by, of all people, Murray Foote.
Not just maybe’s aye, maybe’s naw. Full on Yes
holy shit.
Michael Foote…. really. Wow. And his mustash too. How did that song go…
Michael Foote’s Tash, now they’re both on the Yasss
Michael Foote’s Tash
superb
Who’s next, Torquil Crichton?
`Murray Foote for Independence`
Fáiltíonn míle.
I can scratch him of my long list of Yoons that are going to get booted out of our country after Independence,
I welcome everyone and anyone to New Scotland,
`Non Solum Cunts`
Does my head in this division about competencies and EU powers, there is a REASON these powers were devolved to the EU, because the collective power of 28 Nation’s standing up for regulations and standards. You have the amalgamated solidarity of 28 Nations to defend your interests rather than one.
How does one country the size of Scotland, or even the UK stand up to aggressive US or Chinese marketing muscle and hunger for deregulation?
On the whole, Europe adopts the highest standards of performance, production, and social responsibility, and these standards are only possible because of the collective strength of Europe.
These powers removed from Europe are neither served well by Westminster or Holyrood. The best place for them to remain is in Europe, where our interests are protected and we benefit from the bargaining power of a collective organisation.
In the EU, the collective protect our interests. Out of the EU, we become the people which the EU protects itself from.
The great uninformed and deliberately uninformable and the closed mind bad tempered folk are all dialling their wee phones this morning to call the BBCs *not call Kaye* program
to mount their campaign of hate against a political party who have just put Scotland the above unhappy people are complaining about on the world map
The world now knows what’s going on even if half of Scotland doesn’t want them to know, but it’s too late unhappy people Scotland just got listened to and there’s nothing you can do about that now
Westminster and the Unionists have been exposed for the liars and cheats that they are, they can squeal stunt they can moan no more referendums they can scream no surrender but sorry kids you’ve been found out
And it’s lovely
Well, at least the pretence of being interested in scotlands welfare is well and truly over. Scottish Tories voting to rob Scotland of its ability to make decisions in spite of all the Roothy promises to back Scotland. Not when push came to shove she didn’t.
Scottish Labour again sitting on their fat erchies rather than vote for the people of Scotlands welfare. Lib Dem ditto.
All pretence is over. The Emperor is revealed as being naked after all, bereft of even his clothes and now for all to see.
Only one party has concern for all of Scotland and all its people, regardless of colour creed or background. Many are joining as we speak.
History often turns on small unexpected events. Yesterday was such a day. Another nail in the coffin of the Union. As Brexit progresses, further nails will be driven home.
The pretence is over. The real battle begins now. Today.
Where’s wee Henry? Still got his arse stuck on the fence?
Stuart, whatever you do today, do not allow yourself to get distracted (bears, cats, squirrels, sunshine or whatever), do not leave the house (dentist, crisps, irn bru, lawyers, etc) and set your alarm and whatever else it takes to make sure that you do not miss todays FMQ’s. Hate for you to miss anything important!!
The Daily Record MUST now come out for YES.
Either that or die quicker than the dead trees it’s printed on
Some right bunch of zoomers on Call Not Kay(with an E), pretty sure many are bowler hat and sash wearing individuals who couldn’t give a fig about Scotland as long as the 12th is unhindered in Project Yoon
“Stop the world Scotland wants to get on” said Winnie Ewing famously.
The SNP MPs leaving the Commons chamber was symbolic of that. Not leaving the centre of the action, but leaving to find it for Scotland. Westminster is not the world and there’s nothing there for Scotland except a modern form of chains and slavery.
The 35 MPs’ dignified stroll out was not a stunt. It was to go and find the world for Scotland. The world walk.
I see the press are in full on zoom this morning. Metro commentariat waxing lyrical on all things Scotchland. Like they have a Scooby. 😀
Well played Mr Blackford.
If people didn’t know about the power grab and the UK government’s betrayal of the devolution settlement before? They do now.
The State of Westminster. Absolutely appalling. Just listen to them. Just disgraceful. They have not got a clue what they are doing. They are disgusting. That bastard Davis.They think it is funny. Liars. What a waste of time, space and money. Clear as mud.
Don’t worry about the Scottish offshore industry. Scotland will be taking care of it. After the Tory illegal taxes ruined it. 40% tax since Jan 2016.
David Duguid what about the £Millions in CAP money the Tories stole from the Scottish farmers. Clueless.
Terence callachan 7.53am
Absolutely nailed it regarding the English.
My feelings exactly.
The sooner we wake up to what is holding us back the better.
It is the English, their Parliament, their Establishment and their people.
How any Independence minded Scot can’t see that is truly astonishing.
Fuck England, simple as that.
I honestly believe that the relationship between some Scots and the Union is wonderfully depicted in the Blackadder series in the relationship between Blackadder and Baldrick.
Constantly abused. Inanely dim, but servile to the last. Obedience without thought or awareness of self.
Perhaps we should call such Yoons “Baldricks”
Galamcennalath
Devomax really is Thievomax with velvet gloves on. ( another poster created the word ‘Thievomax’ yesterday – I think it is really apt)
Listened to Radio Shortbread this morning – rarely do that- what a truly shocking exposure of the inaccurate understanding some fellow Scots have of what is really going on in Scotland/the UK and the impact all these different changes will have on life as we know it in Scotland.
Sad that people have been SO misled, obviously some choose to believe their version for other reasons but the media has created a huge ignorance across Britain and especially in Scotland.
For once Brian Taylor redeemed himself on BBC R4 and genuinely defended Scotland, the SNP stance and Devolution.
Sky news now going with the danger of attack from nasty foreigners on the delicate flowers that are the England supporters because the world for some unknown reason doesn’t like England politically
Now I’ve heard these kind of statements before from the mamagement of a more local team in Scotland, they even have a chant for it *nobody likes us we don’t care* but here’s the problem with that point of view why don’t England as a country moderate its political behaviour in co-operation with other countries and maybe things like this might not be something to worry about and might not even take place
Play nice and fair with other people in all aspects of life and those people will be a lot less likely to want to punch you in the face
FMQs on BBC1 at 11.45am. Is that normal?
It was all about England guys, trust the colonial scales have now fallen from our eyes.
Ciao Britannia!
Davis goes red every time he lies.
Just back from the shops. listened to the first couple of callers on Radio shortbreads moan in. Are they asking me to believe that a Lady in Sheffield was ardently listening to their programme and got the second call in. As was Edwina Curry a couple of weeks ago. How thick does Shortbread think we are.
So here wi ar at the pedestrian crossin
Some relaxed an some fair bossin
Wan knows the rules but wants tae go
Anither has the pavement richt up tae thir toe
Ane is nae sure, a micht go or coulda
Wan sees a gap, michtie we shoulda
A neebour shouts oot tae us frae behind
“Wi cood cross the morn if ye dinnae mind”
Twa r in a hurry, they’ll mak a dash
Gonnae no dae that, we could have a smash
O this side o the road am nae a great fan
But am happy tae wait for Nicola’s green man
Welcome aboard Mr Foote you are most welcome.
O/T
Craig P
Re Randolph, 1st Earl of Moray:
Central Scotland Police Headquarters are situated in Randolphfield – the place where Randolph and Lord Clifford are reputed to have had a skirmish on the eve of the Battle of Bannockburn. the location is marked by two standing stones.
Thomas Randolph played a significant part in the War of Independence in 1314.
Well said, Mosstrooper.
I was thinking the same yesterday.
There is no longer a fence for Henry and his like to sit on, it’s time to except servitude for or ever or grow a set and be Independent.
Now IS the time.
No more waiting around for Brexit, Indyref2 should be called today!!!!
@Daisy Walker
Was that no the English hack, Michael White, that had the tash.
It’s only Englands politics that are wrong:
Blaming the English for the system the UK operates is like blaming a monkey for throwing it’s faeces at you, that’s how it communicates, the folk in England know no better than the Unionists in Scotland except for the more rabid types of course
The folk in England believe England is the only place that’s important and right in all things, they’ve been educated imprinted and had it pumped into them from their media all their lives so change for them is a mountainess upheaval in their lives and they have a great deal of difficulty accepting it
English folk who have come to live in Scotland after a while begin to see and understand the UK is not what they thought it was from the perspective of where they lived down south and that’s why English Scots for YES is a growing movement and I would add they work as hard for Scotland if not harder than many of us born here
Try not to judge too harshly given that Scotland has plenty of home grown racist bigoted sectarian clown footed idiots as it is
Enemies are easy to make, friends might take longer but are more worthwhile
@Terence callachan
“In 2014 it was the third of the NO vote that is English people that swung it to victory for the NO side.”
Still spreading your anti-English lies? You have also repeatedly claimed that 18% of the population in Scotland was born in England. That’s another lie and it has been pointed out to you more than once.
The absolute fact is that 8% of the Scottish electorate old enough to vote were born in England, not all of them even voted and neither did they all vote NO. Yet you insist on trying to peddle the myth that 18% of the 55% that voted NO were English.
The most recent Census figures from 2011 show that 459,486 people living in Scotland were born in England from a total population of 5,295,403 That’s 8.7% NOT 18% and 37,000 are under 16 and not old enough to vote leaving just 8% absolute maximum that could have voted NO which NEVER happened.
I’ve no idea what your agenda is but you are wasting your time posting bullshit on Wings.
http://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/ods-analyser/jsf/tableView/tableView.xhtml
@ One_Scot : 10.46
It was heavily trailed yesterday that Nicola would be making a statement in Holyrood before FMQs so maybe the earlier start is to cover it.
No, fuck you Indy2. It’s not the English, stupid, it’s the British Establishment.
@Dr Jim
In my short life i have met loads of English. They all think they’re exceptional in some particular way. You are always the exotic, weird, odd one out….the rest of the world that is. Boff, les anglais sont fous, mais dangereux! As a wise uncle used to say.
FILM. TV. Back On Topic for the Newbies to Wings who may have missed the Ian Blackford MP interview from Westminster on Sky News.
He manages to get everything across without too many interruptions from the Sky News journalist.
Well worth a watch:
https://tinyurl.com/ydy5elgd
Husband and I living in Englandshire (temporarily) for babysitting duties. Thought there was no point in having an actual SNP membership while stuck here. Yesterday’s shenanigans from the Unionist parties changed our attitudes. Both now card-carrying members of vile separatist party. Decided to come home to Scotland asap and the babysitting can do something anatomically impossible. Mon the SNP!
What a surprise, Murray Foote will now vote yes. Blimey! That’s a fair old turn around. Noo whit about Henry? Still picking skelfs oot yer erse?
Never mind Mr Foote, and any other former no voter who have changed their minds, welcome. The hand of friendship should be offered to all of these people.
As for all of the anti English nonsense, gie’s peace, you’ll no get ony takers here.
CORRECTION… 🙁 Re my post at 11:28 the TV broadcaster was not Sky News.
It’s BBC:
Well worth a watch:
https://tinyurl.com/ydy5elgd
@ Scot Findlayson
Yes your right, got that one wrong. Sorry.
Still good on Murray Foote for coming out for Indy. Best Foote forward from now on.
O/T
There was a tween on the Rev’s sight yesterday or the day before stating that Oil amounted to 30% of all UK exports in 2015.
Can anyone verify/find this. If true a really good one to let folk know. Thanks in advance.
What’s happened to the Rev’s eyes, Daisy?
Only joking, nice typos.
As others have said, the ignorant and insulting comments the Rev has listed are pretty much the norm down south, not the exception, and they tend to surface pretty quickly if you enter into a conversation ablaw the dyke once they hear your accent.
Recently I was innocently looking at some YT footage of a highland games event somewhere in the USA and someone had commented btl that he loved the pipes and was proud of being Scottish. Some intellectual had commented further down, “We own you, Scotland, get over it” which, tbf, is pretty much in line with the insults above.
Off on your hols, Rev? Is this a two-week bender with Cairns in Magaluf or what? For shame!
Oh dear.
Wrong thread…
Good turnout at Holyrood for flash Hoop 2. So glad I stayed in Edinburgh an extra day or I would have missed it. Very blustery which didn’t help microphone problems but well done everyone who got up to speak. People are definitely angry.
Blackford secures emergency debate on Sewell Convention.