Things can’t only get better
The Labour Party’s current state of euphoric hubris about losing another election is at least partly explicable. Jeremy Corbyn increased his party’s 2015 vote in England and Wales by a thumping 40%, took the highest vote share of any Labour leader since 2001 (beating Tony Blair’s 2005 victory by five points), the highest actual vote since Blair’s 1997 landslide, and deprived the Tories of their overall majority.
Those achievements are tempered by the fact that while Corbyn vastly overperformed expectations and certainly gave Theresa May a bloody nose (and might well end up depriving her of the Prime Ministership once her party gets a challenger together), the morning-after reality is that Tory rule has been extended to at least 2022 – by which time Corbyn will be 73 – with the nasty hangover of the empowerment of the DUP.
(With both Labour and Corbyn personally now leading in the polls it’s pretty much impossible to see the Tories losing a vote of confidence which would trigger another exemption to the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act. Any new election would very likely lead not only to a Labour government but to a Jeremy Corbyn Labour government, a prospect to chill even the most rebellious Tory into meek and sober compliance.)
But it would be churlish to dispute that Corbyn has put Labour in its best position for nearly 20 years. The same is emphatically NOT true of Scottish Labour, which hasn’t stopped the Scottish media from desperately trying to pretend otherwise.
Because in Scotland, the Corbyn resurgence simply didn’t happen. While Labour did gain six seats, none of them were due to a massive rise in its vote. In fact, despite starting from the most cataclysmically disastrous result in its history, Scottish Labour managed by several measures to LOSE ground – finishing third in a Westminster election, and coming behind the modern Conservative Party, for the first time ever.
Whereas Labour votes had increased by 40% in England and Wales, the figure in Scotland was a feeble 1%. (And 70% of those extra votes came in a single seat, Edinburgh South, which the party already held.) As we’ve noted previously, for every FIFTY votes the SNP lost this year Scottish Labour collected just ONE.
But none of that has stopped an incredible outpouring of hubris from both Kezia Dugdale’s branch office and a Scottish media unable to control its bitter resentment of the SNP’s decade-long dominance.
Dugdale herself penned an extraordinary article for the Edinburgh Evening News about her “success” in coming third and the “message” she’d sent to Nicola Sturgeon.
“We won seven seats because we offered a vision for hope and change”, she trilled, overlooking the fact that (a) that was out of 59, and (b) Labour actually won the seats because of how far the SNP’s vote fell rather than how much Labour’s went up – its total combined net gain in the six seats it captured was just 4000 votes, and in none of the six did the gain amount to even a third of the SNP’s 2015 majority.
But Dugdale’s fanfare on her own trumpet was echoed and amplified by a willing press. Julia Rampen of the New Statesman rushed to her defence with a piece about her “quiet victory” that had readers all over Scotland rubbing their eyes and trying to decide which of its claims was the most outlandish.
(Wings readers, spoiled for choice, eventually plumped for the phrase “Scottish Labour and its leader are poised to win once more”.)
But Rampen wasn’t done yet. She followed the article up with a pair of hagiographies of new Scottish Labour MPs – we suspect more may be in the pipeline – starting with Midlothian’s Danielle Rowley (daughter of the branch office’s deputy leader Alex Rowley) and new shadow Scottish Secretary Lesley Laird.
Rowley offered the thought that her victory was down to Corbyn’s manifesto, telling Rampen “Whenever we had younger voters on the doorstep, they were excited about the manifesto. Even some of my friends who hadn’t voted were excited about it.”
That excitement presumably explained the 1,864 extra votes Rowley managed to get Labour, which would have still left the SNP with a majority of 8000 had it not shed 6000 to the Tories and 3000 more to voters who simply stayed at home, letting Rowley creep in by just 885. (Labour’s 2010 majority in the seat was over 10,000.)
Rampen’s glowing tribute to Laird, meanwhile, managed to entirely overlook the fact that she actually LOST 638 votes on Labour’s 2015 catastrophe, but thanks to an SNP collapse to the Tories and stay-at-homes snuck in by 259 in a seat that used to have a Labour majority of almost 100 times that (23,009 for Gordon Brown in 2010).
Laird and Rampen’s assessment that “former Labour supporters who voted SNP in 2015 have come back because they felt the policies articulated in the manifesto resonated with Labour’s core values” simply didn’t trouble itself with the inconvenient reality that every Labour supporter who walked away in the seat in 2015 seems in fact to have stayed away, and hundreds more have joined them. NOBODY “came back”.
The Guardian wasn’t about to be left out of all this fun either, producing an analysis of the result in another former Labour fortress, Glasgow East – a seat that the SNP actually retained. But the paper wasn’t letting such a minor triviality get in the way.
The story began with a tale of underdog heroism.
The only problem was that if a tide was turned in Glasgow East, it wasn’t Scottish Labour who were pulling off the King Canute act. The party gained just 220 votes in the seat – barely 1/20th as many as the Tories picked up from the implosion of scandal-hit former SNP MP Natalie McGarry, and only 1/50th of what it would have needed to overturn her 2015 majority.
But the Guardian piles on the breathless hyperbole anyway. The piece throbs with talk of “resurgence” and “the Labour surge” before coming up with its piéce de resistance:
The launch of the party’s manifesto appeared to be the gamechanger.”
The manifesto was a “gamechanger” in the sense that a last-minute-of-injury-time goal for a football side losing a cup final 2-0 is a “gamechanger” – that is, it didn’t actually change the game in any meaningful way, shape or form. Of the 6,068 votes Labour lost in Glasgow East in 2015, the gamechanging surge won it back less than 4%.
In other words, for every 25 voters Scottish Labour lost in Glasgow East two years ago, more than 24 of them stayed lost in 2017 and just one came back. For the whole of Scotland, the party won back one vote out of every 33. For the whole of Scotland excluding Edinburgh South, the figure is one out of every 113.
The three examples described in the New Statesman and Guardian articles are a pretty fair representation of the nationwide picture for Scottish Labour. They show one tiny vote gain (that failed to win the seat), one modest vote gain and one vote loss, which is the same pattern as in the rest of the country.
Yet each of the pieces portrays some sort of Lazarusesque, odds-defying comeback, when the reality was a massive swing to the Tories (and to the None Of The Above Party) that turned freshly-minted SNP majorities which hadn’t had time to bed in to rubble, and left dozens of seats vulnerable to whoever happened to be passing.
But as far as the media is concerned, and as Yes supporters have known for years, there is only one Unionist party in Scotland now. It simply goes by a set of different names according to the occasion.
Scottish Labour (aka UK Labour, aka Aberdeen Labour, etc) and its new cheerleaders ought to know how that works, and might be advised to reflect on what a meaningless charade it is, before they get too carried away with their own hype.
Corbyn has done well but he is in his seventies. The labour people who oppose him are still there – waiting
Well Ruth D believed all her own spin and crowned herself queen of the may. Why shouldn’t Kezia believe she is the real corbyn and is leading a labour revival. She is spinning so fast she will take off hopefully to a place far away from us.
When you believe your own spin and have no one telling it like it is you should know you are in serious trouble – as for the bbc and the msm they too are spinning out of control and heading to oblivion. They are incapable of investigating or reporting on anything.
I hope you have copied in our dear Scottish media
Yes, The Guardian is just about the lowest you can go in modern UKOK journalism these days. Hypocritical liars just doesn’t come close to the faux progressive lib liggers o the Graun.
Corbyn did well but in Scotland folk switched because they believed the hype about snp bad.
Now the bottom has been reached for SNP from high of 2015. Reflections have been done riget through party. We will see what comes out.
The other big issue is the swing of voters.
That has been away fron SNP for a belief in not sure what.
Brexit shambles and DUP bribe is really going to polarised situation.
Al?eady have heard of folk who switched votes to Tories from SNP regret that now.
Worth reflecting that after 7 years of Tories and the damaging austerity they brought, plus Brexit, that Labour lost in England too.
Corbyn is seen as the one to save all, but there are a huge number of Blairite Lab MPs in Westminster, though his chances of carrying the PLP was increased because we got rid of 40 Blairites in Scotland.
I understand in England there are no other choices but for Scotland we can choose to not get back on the rusting, damaged, ConLab seesaw in Westminster.
I puzzled over the lack of reaction from Scottish Labour when the DUP deal came up, the utter contempt this deal showed to electorate of Scotland: FM Sturgeon and the SNP stand alone when speaking up for Scotland.
The only conclusion I can come up with is that Slab have the same contempt for Scottish constituents, their party is not in power and the people don’t matter.
Timing is everything.for next GE
Slab benefited from positive MSM friends in the newspapers .
The Corbyn bounce will be felt next vote if the SNP don’t shake out their apathy and get the stay at home vote out.
But the Tories will do anything to cling to power but will come unstuck with the DUP . Will they turn up at every vote? They will come back for more cash. May will be held over her porkbarrel because they have previous on this. Will the Tory gay MPs rebel will the Tory catholic continue to support the bigoted DUP.
Events dear boy events .
You couldn’t resist using that for a title. 😉
On topic. Pyrrhic victory springs to mind. Look what all the tactical voting has won them. Those ‘Labour’ folk who celebrated as Tories took SNP seats, those good socialists. What you’re seeing today in the UK?
You did your bit to bring that about. Well done you.
This is what tactical voting on a single policy has brought the people of Scotland. Right now we could have been looking at a Labour/SNP supply and confidence deal. A deal which would have genuinely had the potential to bridge chasms and give the UK a progressive alliance.
As an added bonus, it may even have had the potential to give Labour in Scotland a much needed boost and a fresh coat of paint. It certainly had the potential to open up genuine dialogue over a more civilized approach to constitutional resolution on these islands.
But no. No, let’s put tribalism and hatred before the needs of the electorate. Let’s stick it to our opponents and if we have to work with Conservatives and sing from their hymn sheet? How bad could the fallout be?
Well? The catastrophuk of government and politics across the UK we’re looking at today seems to be the answer to that question.
Central government dealing with the DUP. Probably breaking international law and certainly compromising their agreed position of neutrality. Brexit settlement turning the UK into an international laughing stock. The economy STILL on a cliff edge and the societies of the UK a tinderbox.
Anyone who wondered just what use 56 SNP MPs were for the past two years, just had that question answered too. Whilst we are still part of the UK, who do you think would have benefitted from that hung parliament scenario most had Scotland returned the same number? Just a thought.
As for the thirteen Tory MPs and their cammo clad leader in Scotland? How many will be heard complaining or standing against yesterday’s decision I wonder?
If any of you are reading this article and following this thread…
What have you done?
Just look in the mirror and ask yourself that question would you?
Would the rats leaving the SNP just do it quietly instead of publicly attacking the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon??
The absolute appalling behaviour of the unionists in Scotland. The Labour/Unionists troughers have let Scotland down for nearly 100 years. The Tory/LibDems are the same. Fifty years of unionistd illegally mismanaging and misuseing public funds. Illegally and secretly taking £Billions out of Scotland. Lying abuse. They are a total disgrace. Break the Law at every opportunity. An abuse of political power. An appalling way to behave. Most of them should be in jail.
Vote SNP, SNP. Vote for Independence in Scotland. Stand up for Scotland,
I’m glad I gave up on the Graun’s Scottish coverage some months ago. Looks like things have not got better since. I dropped into their Scottish section on Sunday for the first time in ages, not even Kevin McKenna’s latest rant.
I tend to hang out in the Indy now. They are not rabid Yessers but they report Scotland with a pretty even hand. SNP positive stories get reported in the Indy occasionally.
Wasn’t so long ago that Kezia Dugdale and Ian Murray were singing a different tune. Hypocrites that will say anything to further their own carreers.
KEZIA Dugdale has launched a scathing attack on the frontrunner for the UK Labour leadership race, saying Jeremy Corbyn would leave Scottish Labour “carping from the sidelines” for years.
Dugdale, the favourite to be next Scottish Labour leader, said she was not convinced Corbyn could be prime minister.
Although unwilling to divulge which of the four candidates for the national leadership she would back, Dugdale was happy to criticise the frontrunner.
“There are loads of people [in the Labour party] who are quite prepared to say ‘Och, it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t look like a prime minister, there’s someone who’s authentic and says what they believe’.” she said.
“But I want there to be a Labour government; otherwise I’m wasting my time. I don’t want to spend my whole life just carping from the sidelines.”
It was a strange comment given that it surely would be Dugdale herself responsible for taking Scottish Labour from “the sidelines” and into government.
She then attacked Corbyn for not supporting the policies of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
“You have to convince me that he can be [prime minister],” she said. “Here’s a guy that’s broken the whip 500 times. So how can the leader of the party enforce discipline with that record?”
link to archive.is
Shadow Scottish Secretary Ian Murray has explained his resignation on live TV with a devastating swipe at Jeremy Corbyn ’s leadership.
In a frank interview he accused Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour of only “talking to itself” and said the leader “has to look at himself seriously in the mirror”…
He added: “I just don’t think Jeremy Corbyn ’s able to lead us to be Prime Minister. And I’m not just doing this in public, I raised this at Shadow Cabinet on Friday.
“I did say to the Shadow Cabinet and to Jeremy directly that I didn’t think at this moment in time that he could be Prime Minister and if he thought he could be Prime Minister then he’s taking to the wrong people and needs to change.
“His change seems to be to have sacked Hilary Benn. I think that’s the wrong way to go and and I think that’s the final straw for many people in the Shadow Cabinet who served for unity.”
He added: “I think Jeremy Corbyn has to look at himself seriously in the mirror and see if he sees himself walking down Downing Street as being Prime Minister, whether or not there’s a general election in six months or in May 2020.
“I think he’s going to find it very difficult to answer yes to those questions. Regrettably he’s a decent human being, a lovely man who I got on incredibly well with but he just can’t lead the Labour party and I don’t think the public think he can be Prime Minister.”
link to archive.is
O/T Quelle Surprise… Call Kaye ignoring the DUP deal and concentrating on Broadband speeds.. hopefully pointing out this is a UK government responsibility.
@donald anderson says: 27 June, 2017 at 8:47 am:
“Would the rats leaving the SNP just do it quietly instead of publicly attacking the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon??”
What Donald Anderson said with bells on and flags waving.
‘Aberdeen Labour’ lost half their seats, including the ‘financial something’ Willy Young. The few that are left have gone in an illegal coalition with the Tories, now cutting jobs. The City is 130 teachers short. Now teachers can take redundancy.
The Labour/Unionists wasted £200Million on a groteque monstrosity of no value ruling the City Centre and causing traffic chaos. They borrow and wasted £1.2Million. Sold the City off on the stock exchange. Now £1.2Million in debt. On groteque non mandated projects of no value. An appalling mess. Misappropriating abd spending public money. They are above the Law.
Ross Thomson was implicated in this. A 74 year old Tory who has a holiday home in Inverness and like sailing is now going to Holyrood on the list. (Unekdcted) Refusing to give up the council post.
The sooner FPTP is brought in. The better. These unionists are acting criminals. Most of them should be in jail.
With all the boot licking earse kissing being done by the unionist media over wee Kez it is understandable that they all seem to overlooked one itsy bitsy teeny weeny little problem for Kez. She is no longer Labour leader. In fact she is no longer a member of Labour. Well that WOULD be the case if Labour actually followed their own rules of course.
Everyone remembers the day Kezia broke the rules as stated by Chapter 2,Clause 1, Paragraph 4 B. don’t they? 😉
link to youtube.com
Here is a wee article that puts this into simple language that even Labour in Scotland and oor Kez can understand.
link to martinkeatings.com
So, in simple terms, I fully expect to see oor Kez sitting at the back of the chamber on Thursday, as an INDEPENDENT M.S.P., during FMQ’s and Alex Rowley to be asking Labour’s questions. Of course in reality we all know no such thing will happen because Labour being LABOUR nothing will happen because they are all too busy snorting from the money trough!
Alternative reality usually lands with a heavy lump of gravitas attached to it, Kezia’s other career awaits…..
The reverend seems obsessed by Labour and The Unionist Press. He should spend a bit of time analysing the SNPs car crash general election campaign and the golden opportunity it offered missed.
Missed is not really accurate, ‘avoided’ better describes it. The SNP could have, should have, staked everything on that general election, as in one manifesto statement, ‘vote SNP for the Scottish government to negotiate independence with the next Westminster government’. Instead they played it safe and put The Party before The Cause. And not a word from the Rev.
When the next UK general election lumbers into view is there actually any point in the SNP bothering to stand?
I’ve said it before and I’m saying it again: reason and rational argument have taken the nationalist movement as far as it’s going to. Now it’s time to appeal to emotion and to force people to choose sides. You could, for instance, call on school leavers to boycott civil service entrance exams, denude the civil service of Scottish entrants and gradually force the imposition of English civil servants on Scotland, thus forcing people to confront the reality of what it actually means to be ruled from England in their daily lives. Ditto the police and the army, withdrawing the authority of these forces to represent Scotland. Make no mistake, this will lead to huge bitterness and division, but that’s the point. I’m afraid nationalists are kidding themselves if they think they’re going to advance any further without this happening.
Voters in Scotland regret voting No.
Voters in Scotland regret voting for the Conservatives.
Shame they can’t spend some time before they vote thinking about the consequences.
Have a feeling they’re embarrassed but don’t regret anything.
Just sayin BBC, Broadband is totally Westminster. Listen up rural areas. the Tories are letting you down and have forgotten the day job!
Isn’t it strange that a wee former mining village in the Kingdom of Fife, once at the heart of the real left wing Labour movement, has produced the LibDem leader in Scotland, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Scottish Accountancy unit and the Labour MP for Midlothian?
Perhaps there is something in the Kelty air that produces such totally useless numpties. There used to be a burning coal bing in Kelty that pervaded the air with acrid fumes but we got rid of that years ago.
Corbyn policies are totally incompatible. If people believe Corbyn is a messiah. They will be disappointed. The SNP already have in place many of the policies. They also support EU membership which the majority in Scotland support. Including the young folk. Some young folk in Scotland voted Corbyn. ‘Without doing any research’. They did not realise they would let the Tories in. They are now regret their choice.
Corbyn/Labour could have taken down Cameron. They voted through or abstained every Tory policy. Some Tories would have voted to take down May. Corbyn was reportedly refused to support them. If May does not go soon it will take down the world economy. UK already in decline. The psycho bastards killing vulnerable people. Blaming 5% of migrants in the UK for what the Unionists have done. Illegally. Bombing the Middle East to bits for years. They are criminals ruling the world economy.
Corbyn/Labour/LibDems are part of the problem.
I think the SNP lost a lot of votes because many folk believed the Unionist propaganda spouted by the media about our NHS, education, police and the First Minister focusing more on independence than on the day job..
A great many of Scotland’s people forget how the SNP government have cushioned them from the worst of the policies coming out of Westminster. A great many more forget that they receive benefits in Scotland that are not available to folk in England.
Remember, Johann Lamont’s “Something for nothing culture” remark and her “Nothing is off the table” comment about cuts in Scotland that would bring us into line with England.
We should be constantly reminding voters what the SNP government continues to give them – and make sure they’re aware what a Unionist Party would most likely do if one ever gets into power in Scotland.
Bring back prescription charges
Stop mitigating Tory’s bedroom tax
Bring back tuition fees
Sell off Scottish water
Cancel free bus passes for OAPs
Cancel winter fuel allowance for OAPs
Bring back bridge tolls
Bring back hospital car park charges
Cut funding for Scottish NHS
Start privatising the Scottish NHS
Cancel free bowel & cancer screening for all
Cancel free care for the elderly
Cancel free childcare
Cancel social housing programme
Stop funding for Scottish veterans
Cancel free school meals
Stop freezing council tax
Increase council tax to same level as England
Cancel community land buying assistance
Cancel council tax aid for Scotland’s small businesses
Stop sibsidising ferries to Scottish islands
Stop subsidising the building of affordable homes
Cancel Baby Boxes for new borns
Agree to impose benefit cuts
Agree to remove third child benefits in Scotland
Agree to impose Rape Clause in Scotland
Agree to impose the Dementia Tax in Scotland
Sell pensioners houses to pay their care bill
Return Stamp duty to UK levels
Kick migrants out of Scotland
Reduce the number of refugees coming into the country
Agree to spend over £200 billion replacing Trident
Reduce nurses & doctors wages to same as in England
Cut police numbers on streets by 20%
Cut fire brigade numbers
Sell arms to terrorist states
Build nuclear power stations in Scotland to bail out England’s energy shortage
Stop subsidising air fares for residents of Caithness and north-west Sutherland, Colonsay, Islay, Jura, Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles
The UK improve broadband contract was exclusively given to BT. It was believed they had the knowledge to carry out the contract. £2Billion.
The work was substandard and not carried out properly. Shoddy work. They were numerous mistakes and complains. Leading to BT eventually being fined £Millions Paid for by the taxpayer customers.
BT was involved in business in Italy. A loss making subsidy. Losing £Billions. Of taxpayers customers money. BT was fined and the CEO was censored. More waste of taxpayers customers money. The CEO is still in place and has not been replaced. Not fit for purpose. Tory/Unionists
It was very clear during Ed Miliband’s brief period as leader of the Labour Party the extent to which Labour, certainly at the level of the parliamentary members, is embarrassed to be associated with the Trades Unions.
Tony Blair established that breach with the removal of Clause 4 and even Jeremy Corbyn is showing little enthusiasm for repairing the breach. Labour is still well stacked with Blairites who seeing Corbyn as a possible passport to government will stay in line and keep quiet. Until they get onto the government benches or get hammered at which point Corbyn will be toast.
I don’t believe for one moment that he can deliver a radical left wing agenda for change in England with a PLP which is so heavily socially and economically conservative and shot through with Thatcher’s children.
The young voters JC has attracted are not particularly leftist in their outlook either, they are predominantly proto-Conservatives who feel they are being left out by Tories who have neglected them shamefully and excluded them from the benefits of home ownership and free-ish university education that has served the older generation so well with social mobility ladders. Whilst making the most of these opportunities this Thatcherite generation has completely screwed the entire UK economy and built a pile of national, private and corporate debt that is eye watering except by comparison with US and EU and Chinese debt.
Support for either of the two main UK parties by Scottish voters in WM elections merely increases the chances that when the UK goes down in the next major financial crash it will drag Scotland with it. As the current Tory/DUP deal makes clear Scottish interests don’t rank very highly on the Westminster agenda.
Currently the only sensible Scottish vote is for the only party which represents Scottish interests in Westminster. A repeat of the 2015 SNP dominance would have given Scotland a very strong voice in Westminster now. Instead we have ceded control to Ulster, and then only one faction of Ulster.
It is not only Treeza and Co. that shot themselves in the foot with a Snap GE17. Scottish voters have shot a leg off.
Scottish party differences of political opinion should be reserved for Holyrood elections where PR will deliver a fair reflection and representation of voter choices.
Robert Peffers at 0903am,
And if their are legitimate concerns? ‘SSSSh! just keep schtum and b*gger off’.
Calling long term members with concerns at the SNP direction, ‘rats’. hmmm…sounds like a vote winning strategy.
O/T:
I note from this mornings news reports that the Queen of England is to receive a an 8% pay increase from public funds after the Crown Estates profits rose by £24 Million.
Last year’s official accounts showed the Queen’s expenditure increased by £2 Million to £42 Million.
The Sovereign Grant, is to increase by over £6 million in 2018/19. This on top of the money from the public purse to renovate her humble abode of Buck House.
So the, “all in this together”, austerity seem not to apply for some people in the society of the united Kingdom.
The decline in turnout hit the SNP hard and a mixture weariness and the relentless anti-SNP message had an impact. If that 5% had turned out a lot of seats would have been retained.
We are back in three party politics for the moment but if anyone believes that the Blairites have given up then they are deluded. What is more the Tories can barely get a positive line outside of the Daily Hate…changed days for them. We are at a crossroads and all the paths are uncertain. Nevertheless, the SNP are in poll position in Council seats, MPs and most importantly, Holyrood and, baring a Tory meltdown, no elections for 4 years.
I know which leader’s hat I would prefer to be wearing (sorry Paula, those pointy shoes are not comfy).
As an aside, how Kezia can take comfort in coming third again beggars belief. The limits of their ambitions is something I never expected to see.
Paula Rose at 0911am,
I have often thought that myself.
@Macart
Great post.
I wager the Irish gov’t have started legal processes about the DUP deal. It’s our only consolation, that they will be as horrified as we are.
The EU also have a role in the GFA, and you can imagine what they are thinking right now.
First minister to make statement later today
Ken500: “The sooner FPTP is brought in. The better.”
FPTP is an awful system. Just because it’s worked in our favour a couple of times recently doesn’t mean it’s suddenly stopped being an undemocratic anachronism (hence why it’s favoured by the British state and its two main defenders.)
The Corbyn factor is an illusion. In power, he would prove as disastrous as Gordon Brown was. I hope that those in Scotland who changed from SNP to voting for Labour, and I know a couple, realise that they were voting for Dugdale too. Another disaster waiting to happen.
Too often have I seen this phenomenon of “giving Labour one more chance”. It has never worked for Scotland, and it won’t work now. All that has happened is that the SNP are being depicted as losing by the usual suspects.
I hope and pray that N.S. has a plan in place for IndyRef2. I’m growing impatient
If the SNP and yes movement is to recover it must refresh its approach.
Launch a programme of improving broadband across the country along the lines of the Balquhidder community. Get the people on board with self help programmes. Salmond did a great job with the renewable energy competition
The Irish were inspired by the phrase “by our own hands” and this is as true for the Scots.
London is not going to look after you – you need to rise up and take responsibility for your own future. The Labour based dependency culture of focusing on benefits is a dead end.
@Robert Louis says: 27 June, 2017 at 9:32 am:
“And if their are legitimate concerns? ‘SSSSh! just keep schtum and b*gger off’.
Calling long term members with concerns at the SNP direction, ‘rats’. hmmm…sounds like a vote winning strategy.”
There is quite some disparity between what are, “legitimate concerns”, and the shit that is being thrown around by the usual suspects in the hope that some of it might stick to the SNP.
Not for the first time have I been critical of the party and have at time fallen out with the leadership over various issues but some of the stuff certain commenters on Wings are accusing the leadership of being guilty of are utter claptrap and most certainly lack any semblance of reasoned thought by people who quite obviously have not taken the trouble to follow anything other than the Unionist propaganda.
Such comments as, “The SNP needs to up its game”, without any details of what the commenter is referring to are obvious to those of us who actually follow other than PMs Questions at Westminster or FMs questions at Holyrood.
The fact that these goings on are totally absent from the MSM or state controlled broadcasters is no excuse. The SNP faction at Westminster are the best attenders in the chamber and are very outspoken while fighting for Scotland.
The same applies at Holyrood but neither parliamentary matters are reported in the press or broadcasts. It is hardly the fault of these hard working elected people that their hard work is deliberately ignored by the mainstream media or worse still spun into, “SNP BAAAD”.
Thus most of the critical comments on Wings are either deliberate Westminster propaganda or from sheer ignorance of what is really going on.
You will note that the complainers never explain just how they expect the SNP to get what they are doing published and broadcast. Yet there is:-
link to scottishparliament.tv
That shows all the action in the Holyrood Chamber and in every Holyrood committee room session live.
There is also :-
link to parliamentlive.tv
That covers all that goes on at Westminster.
Now no one expects the members of the general public to follow these events in the parliaments but Wings is not the general public but people who are supposedly more politically aware.
I just came from Westminster TV coverage where Scottish Questions were just beginning to be shown. BTW: Both on-line TV channels have recorded sessions that can be accessed.
In short it is rather counter productive to blame the SNP elected members for the sins of omission of the MSM and state controlled media.
I believe a lot of people (including me) voted SNP in 2015 because they thought it would give a stronger voice to Scotland especially with the Smith Commission powers about to be debated, ammended and voted on at Westminster. If nothing else, the last two years have proven that sending SNP mps to London achieves nothing of any great substance and only provides mps from rUK with an opportunity to humiliate Scotland’s mps and by extension the people who vote for them i.e. us. What therefore would have been the point of doing it all again in 2017? The point has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that the idea of Scots having any democratic power at Westminster is a bogus one. The logical and, I admit, very brave thing for the SNP to have done would have been to point out the futility of Scotland sending any mps to Westminster at all and cited as proof the experience of the last two years. In short, the SNP should have done a Sinn Fein and boycotted the whole charade.
So where are we now? Well we’ve got 24 provincial minded mps devoid of any vision or ambition for their country now actively working against Scotland and her people attempting to weaken its parliament in Edinburgh and thus the tiny level of autonomy that it currently enjoys. In addition, we have another 35 cannon fodder SNP mps waiting to be ridiculed all over again by not only rUK mps but this time around also by some new “Scottish” mps.
If all this wasn’t sad enough, we’re about to leave the EU (62% of us didn’t want to do that) in the most acrimonious circumstances AND we’ve got a Tory government for at least another 5 years (72% didn’t want that) and possibly a lot longer.
The only silver lining for me is that the UK has been (and will be) greatly diminished. That’s got to be good news for the rest of the world. Think how many people will live out their lives in peace now as a direct result of a weakened UK being unable to attack them!
Macart 8.47am. Ah but the people of England didn’t want Corbyn getting into bed with the snp,and have those scrounging sweaties making policies at Westminster. So they get the bigots from n’ireland instead.laughable if it wasn’t so tragic. But you know what? F**k everyone who voted for this demonic alliance. I hope you suffer in spades.
Not exactly O/T but Journey 17’s out, Grayling (A C, not Chris). Watching now.
”
shug says:
Launch a programme of improving broadband across the country along the lines of the Balquhidder community.”
Broadband isn’t a devolved issue. Probably why its so poor in Scotland and according to the tables out today most of the worst areas are here.
The GE was in fact a disaster for Labour in Scotland, just not as bad as they expected, hence they claim a victory
To all those aghast at the ‘puppy dog tails hyperbole event’, including Dugdale, I can only hope you are all vegetarians since what we do to other animals seems somewhat more dramatic than trimming their tails. Turn the hypocrite dial up to eleven.
“If any of you are reading this article and following this thread…
What have you done?”
Those 13 blue STories will do exactly the same as their red STory predecessors – sit on their hands, keep their mouths zipped and do as their English bosses damn well tell them to do. We saw that perfectly exemplified yesterday with the Barnett-busting DUP deal. Not a peep from the blue or red STories.
I think it was Glenn Campbell who asked the FM what’s the point in sending SNP MPs to WM when they don’t have any power there – something like that. Well Glenn Campbell – are you paying attention?
Notwithstanding the obvious point that your question effectively articulated the case for independence, what’s the effing point in Scotland sending red or blue Tories to WM when all they ever do is what their English bosses tell them and dare not speak a single syllable in Scotland’s defense or favour? What’s the bloody point in having Scottish MPs who behave like THAT?
Had Kamikezi Dugdale not instructed her supporters to vote Tory in certain seats then there is every likelihood that today we would have been looking at Corbyn in #10 and an SNP/Labour/LD progressive alliance across the UK. Dugdale prevented that and Davidson is now intent in exploiting it.
Slow hand clap Dugdale/Davidson. Between the pair of you, you have f#cked Scotland over big time. And just so long as it helps keep your noses in the WM trough and helps secure that piece of ermine at the end of your careers. Hope you’re so very proud of yourselves.
The people of Scotland have now seen what happens with one-trick ponies, “Say NO to a 2nd Referendum” and all the tactical voting that went along with it.
We end up in the pocket of a bunch of right-wing bigoted, xenophobic, homophobic, god-squad zealots. Good work.
There will be a backlash.
Transfer fees, for context:
Pogba, £89m
Bale, £85m
Ronaldo, £80m
Nigel Dodds, £100m
Ian Paisley Jr, £100m
Jeffrey Donaldson, £100m
🙁
From Financial Times journalist Jim Pickard.
Richard MacKinnon at 9.09
Rather unkind, Richard. This was a GE pulled out of a hat without notice to which the SNP had no immediate organised reaction. A holding action was sensibly decided which was OK but assumed lots of erstwhile Labour supporters were going to vote SNP which didn’t they didn’t.
I am still puzzled by the massive turnover of LibDem votes to Tory in some seats as detailed by Rev recently (but not to toryish SNP voters in SNP rural seats seeing an SNP designed overmuch to appeal to Labour voters not voting SNP). Joint unionist targetting must have been heavily organised for some time and a serious look needs to be had at this. And the phenomenal sums of money spent on postage of unionist propaganda into those seats, none of which was funded by those parties’ Scottish branches.
One nil indeed to the unionists and I have no doubt whatsoever that it was planned for some time.
Be that as it may the party response was inadequate and I think wrong and I have never known an election at which it was so difficult indeed to get activists to do any work.
The fact is that the dedicated SNP base is only enthused by a independence message that unites all members behind a unifying theme. No matter what other issue or issues dominates at any time unless the SNP promotes independence as the answer the activity seeps away.
We ended that election campaign playing into the Tory/Labour choice and huge numbers of our supporters didn’t bother voting. Even some of our branch members couldn’t be bothered.
We need a continuous independence campaign.
Are we any wiser? First lesson is to stop blaming and to react to the very hard lesson we have hopefully learned.
It is however now clearly the nationalists against the joint unionists which clears up lots of things and is to our benefit.
Let them think they won. Keep us informed on hiw mental they are.
They will, hopefully, be in for a shock in the future.
O/T
Nicola Sturgeon?Verified account @NicolaSturgeon
1h1 hour ago
More
“I’ll be seeking agreement of @ScotParl to make a statement later today on the way forward for Scotland after the General Election.”
There is another aspect to voting patterns which makes it worse for Labour in terms of effect and influence.
A lot of Scots clearly float among two or three voting choices – NONE (they stay at home), SNP, and Labour.
I would suggest this is a bigger problem for Labour than for the SNP, because the SNP fairs better at Holyrood where it can have real influence.
SNP influence at Westminster is questionable. If they don’t hold the balance of power, then they hold no power.
Labour Scottish MPs at Westminster very rarely make the difference either.
Scottish MPs winning at Westminster basically doesn’t matter. Who wins Holyrood matters.
2010 General
SNP 491,386 (19.9%)
Labour 1,035,528 (42.0%)
2011 Holyrood Constituency
SNP 902,915 (45.4%)
Labour 630,461 (31.7%)
2015 General
SNP 1,454,436 (50.0%)
Labour 707,147 (24.3%)
2016 Holyrood Constituency
SNP 1,059,897 (46.5%)
Labour 514,261 (22.6%)
2017 General
SNP 977,569 (36.9%)
Labour 717,007 (27.1%)
Labour gets more votes in GEs. Both in absolute numbers because of higher turnout and in % terms.
(Also, the LibDems collapsed after 2011, adding to other parties’ votes)
SNP vote now hovers around a million, with the anomaly of 2015. We now know what happened to the SNP’s 2015 vote, courtesy of YouGov.
Those who did vote, chose …
SNP 71%
Labour 15%
Tories 11%
LibDems 2%
link to tinyurl.com
On past record, that 15% who switched to Labour for the recent General Election are quite likely IMO to switch back the the SNP in Holyrood. Where arguably, votes for the SNP count for more.
Also, what should also concern Labour more than the SNP is that although they gained 15% of the 2015 SNP vote, to standstill they must have also lost the same number to the Tories!
The temporary Ruth Davidson Brexit No Indy Party will lose it’s veneer soon to reveal London Tories hiding inside. The shine will go soon and some votes will return to the main three options Stay At Home, SNP, and Labour.
The UK general election has nothing to do with independence – if there is another one soon the SNP would be better off not standing and make it a straightforward vote on a progressive or regressive future.
I find it very difficult to believe that SNP MPs will be taken seriously in Westminster but found to be no more than a nuisance or an inconvenience.
There was a train of thought that having a majority of SNP MPs was enough to reboot Scotland to an independent nation again but alas, no more it seems.
On the subject of criticism of the SNP, well, I believe that will diminish the instant Nicola Fires the starting pistol for Indyref2 (hopefully this very day).
Nicola statement at 2.20pm
Apparently she cancelled a talk in London, she was going to give this morning.
Daniel: “FPTP is an awful system. Just because it’s worked in our favour a couple of times recently…”
The issue uppermost is the embarrassingly useless MSPs essentially rejected by voters yet sitting in Parliament and living off taxpayer’s money.
What system exists that dumps deadheads? Sooner or later that issue has to be addressed.
Simply put, British Unionism is evil. This relic of that other pernicious, monstrous, exploitative, racist evil the British Empire has to be destroyed. It surprises me that with all the evidence we have on this system the SNP leadership is so inept at exposing its true face to the Scottish public.
There appear to be just too many pro-Brit ‘nats’ around. Time we had a clear out.
@Grouse Beater
I don’t think there is any system that can get rid of deadheads. Even with the STV system people will vote for a party no matter the quality of the candidate. We have some prime examples of this peoples choice at Westminster, Mundell is an outstanding example but I expect some of the new NE contingent to make a play for this top spot.
Heedtracker – just because Stuart quotes a Guardian article it doesn’t justify your introverted comment.
You are mis-describing an internationally respected newspaper. It happens to be English – is that it ?
I have a sneaky feeling that Mundell is on his way out and the linesman Douglas Ross will take over as he is a favourite of the Colonel Ruth.
A great analysis, Rev, and much needed. BLiS______d are truly beyond parody.
In a tactical masterstroke, Kezia took the saying “Vote Labour, get Tory” and refined it to “Vote Tory to Whack the SNP”, thus pulling the rug from under Jeremy’s feet. Sheer genius, and could you get two more implacable opponents of JC than she and Angry Murray? I don’t think the MSM are dwelling on these fine points, somehow.
As several posters have said, the Blairites are still there and they still hate Corbyn. Even if he were fit for office, what cabinet could he form and how long before the knives would be out for him, particularly if he were lumbered with trying to deal with leaving the EU?
Perhaps the strange switch by the BBC to bolster Corbyn during the last weeks of the GE was so that the Tories could avoid having to deal with Brexit and its dire consequences and could then watch Labour implode under the pressures of office.
Please, SNP, focus on Independence and remain committed to the mandate for Indyref2. The alternatives don’t bear thinking about.
Well, today is reportedly the big day:
Nicola Sturgeon is supposed to be making an announcement on Indyref2.
I’ve made my views clear:
A Scottish Sovereignty Within The Union referendum ASAP.
If won, Scotland would have the mandate to decide Scotland’s role within the UK Union and the EU / Single Market; so we’d decide which powers Holyrood would have and so much more.
If Westminster Govt refuses that Scottish democratic mandate, it’s a kick in the teeth for all of Scotland, including those that have believed in the Union till now.
As this wouldn’t be about independence v The Union, but addressing the problems of the Union – the democratic deficit, within the Union.
I don’t suggest an indyref should be forgotten. Hold one when it’s most likely YES would win. We wouldn’t win if the EU issue is presented as the main reason for an indyref.
The EU is a divisive issue for YES supporters and the Project Fear campaign would just reverse their previous mince:
It would go from vote No to stay in the EU, to vote No to stay OUT the EU.
Attempting to assert Scottish Sovereignty within the UK is the way forward.
If that is killed off by Westminster, I think that will drive many former No voters to the side of independence.
Could it be that the overall figures are a little deceptive. That there was indeed a Corbyn Effect in Scotland, drawing ‘traditional socialists’ back to Labour from the SNP, but at the same time as many Scottish Lab. supporters who were Unionists at heart, switched to the Tories, who they saw as the most reliable defenders of the Union, Brexit etc. ???
@Yerkitbreeks
The Guardian is a London based Unionist newspaper. Surely that’s enough? It does not require our ‘protection’.
As for respected, online ‘below the line’ comments indicate that even its readership have issues with that and its editorial political integrity.
The “Scottish” Daily Fail is leading with the notion that the SNP are hypocrites over the DUP “bung” as Scotland is greedily swallowing a £15B deficit “gift” every year. Words fail me.
@Proud Cybernat
Have been discussing the same notion that a lot of SNP voters have gone back to the old idea of not voting for the party (or at all) as there’s no point in SNP in Westminster. Best we can hope for there is a Confidence & Supply (aka Tories “coalition of chaos”) if the numbers miraculously work. Otherwise it’s a term of being ignored or having the piss taken.
@Dave McEwan Hill
I floated the idea that the Tories have spent a large chunk of the last year planning a total electoral stitch-up in Scotland. Got told to put my tinfoil hat away.
This is the UK – we don’t do such things – beacon of democracy!
I suspect the FM’s announcement will be more cute that people expect. I suspect she will say that if Scotland retains single market membership there will be no need for a referendum. This would put the ball in Ruthies court to secure single market for Scotland or force the Tories totell Scotland that a hard brexit is a certainty.
I was intending never again to vote in a general election as I thought there was no point especially as the SNP ministers were mostly ridiculed and treated with contempt in Westminster.I did change my mind though as I new how it would be reported if we lost to many seats.I think the unionists will try to drag out the brexit deal as long as possible so as to not leave enough time for indref2 during thve life of this Scottish parliament. However this might not go down to well as a suggestion of mine as I would like an all or nothing vote in the next independence ref. Ie.independence or scrap Hollywood all together,maybe this would focus the electorate on what’s really important to them and also a lot of sitting MP’S who were against indy would be voting themselves out of a job if it was a no vote. No need for a long campaign just put it to the voters who do you trust the most to run Scotland Hollywood or Westminster.
O/T
Google Fined 2.4 billion:
link to theverge.com
Peace Always
@Paula Rose and Robert Louis 9.35
If the SNP didn’t stand in General Elections the field would be left clear to Labour and Conservative parties to continue their destruction of our democracy and social welfare system. The SNP did manage to get one bill through, after all – Eilidh Whiteford’s bill about domestic violence.
I know that they don’t wield power [tho’ they could have done if a few more seats had stayed SNP this time]BUT their mere presence is a demonstration that there is a substantial block of the populace who belong to a different country and hold different views.
There is also the force of example. English etc MPs must be impressed by the calibre of the SNP MPs and over time the arguments in favour of Scotland’s right to regain status as a self-governing state must filter through. They can’t all be pigheaded.
I’m speaking as a virtually English person who didn’t think about Scotland’s demeaning position until the independence referendum campaign, despite having lived here for some years. I was hopelessly ignorant and even a bit irritated by the SNP! Now I couldn’t be more fervent for independence. So some MPs may begin to see the light too.
Am I the only person not to remember the Stephen Berry song, “Every Loser Wins”??
Laukat,
If that is the case then the FM would be of the opinion that the Scottish People shouldn’t decide on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations which would be at odds with what she had said previously.
I do hope you’re wrong, it would be highly damaging to the SNP and independence if you are correct.
Am looking forward to Nicola’s statement later on today.
Events are moving quickly.
And I know who I trust to guide Scotland forward and eventualy to Independence.
Keep the faith =)
Grouse Beater @ 10.44
Out of all three voting systems imposed on Scotland,the Holyrood one is, I think, the best!
Except for,as you say, not being able to get rid of the seat warmers from the list.
The solution I would have said is pretty simple, and I was surprised (cause I’m an optimist) that it’s wasn’t addressed in the recent report recommending “improvements” to our Parliament.
All that really needs to happen is that,just like the American President’s,..an unelected list MSP can only serve in two Parliament’s as an unelected member.
That’s more than enough time for anyone the parties think has talents and would be beneficial to Scotland,to show the electorate what they’ve got,and get themselves elected in their own right.
If after serving twice unelected, they cannot then get themselves elected, clearly the people don’t want them in the Parliament,and the parties must then choose someone else.
“London is not going to look after you – you need to rise up and take responsibility for your own future. The Labour based dependency culture of focusing on benefits is a dead end.”
Shug at 9.58
Good last paragraph.
I think the first sentence is a great slogan for the future campaigns involving the Scottish people.
@Liz g
Great solution.
@K.A.Mylchreest:
You are correct — it’s more complicated than @revstu is making out. The latest YouGov data suggests that the SNP lost more votes to Labour than they did to the Tories. I agree with your inclination that pro-union Scottish Labour voters switched to the Tories as well. Overall, Scottish Labour seemed to lose roughly as many votes to the Tories as they gained from the SNP (which gives the illusion that voters went directly from the SNP to the Tories).
“it’s more complicated than @revstu is making out. The latest YouGov data suggests that the SNP lost more votes to Labour than they did to the Tories”
This is YouGov’s own actual chart.
Nicola to issue a statement on indi2 will give the msm an excuse not to forget about the bung to NI.
The BBC have come to an agreement with the United Kingdom of England Government that they will report fairly and impartially on the Dangers, Threats, Doom Laden prospects, Nazi tendencies and links to generally Baad things that the SNP represent for only 23 out of the 24 hours a day rolling news in the future
In Scotland Jackie Bird is to be cloned many times over so that the BBC where you are can project all their usual fairness into every home regarding all these aforementioned Baad things the SNP represent
Last call is to be returned to our screens featuring clergymen from the Orange Lodge and DUP to give us a wee talk on the subject of God and what would have been his contempt for the SNP if he were among us today just before we go to bed
So remember to switch off the television just in case the SNP try to indoctrinate you in your sleep with their cybernatic warriors abilities to steal into your internet band wavy things because once your brain has been reprogrammed it’s incredibly difficult for the state truth papers like the Daily Mail and others to bring you back to the enlightened path of the total Fukcedupness of Unionism
God Bless Treeza and may she shine a light on all things dead good about Unionism (that last part was humour)
The rest is true!
this is all vacuous havers, if sturgeon comes out and says,
“the sg will do an about u turn and park indyref2 off the table until we see the results of the brexit negotiations. treeza must be given a free run to get the best deal for britain. we sincerely hope that she manages to secure the uk’s or at very least scotlands place within the single market. Should treeza succeed in this, then it is most likely that indyref2 will stay off the table for the forseeable future. the sg will review its position once the details of brexit are known”
the yoons will love this, the 12th of july will go with a swing this year,…..etc.
except this is also vacuous havers.
1. the eu has already dismissed the idea of a differentiated deal for scotland, where the ruk leaves the single market and we stay in.
2. the eu has already vetoede the uk staying in the single market.
3. the uk has already told the eu it is leaving the single market.
nicola should take this line, the msm will switch its attention to the fall out from brexit. good. that is what the focus should be, indyref2 is a distraction at the moment.
once it becomes known that scotland is leaving the single market, nicola should launch the white paper, scotlands future2 and declare indyref2 is back on the table, about autumn 2018, or sooner depending on the clusterfukc the tories make of brexit.
which, if you read this blog regularly, is when most of us think indyref2 will happen anyway.
nicola’s speech gives her an opportunity to spin this in the press, i hope she takes this opportunity to give the yoon media the sound bites it wants
It’s sad to see seemingly intelligent people falling for the same “this time it’s different” trick over and over again.
Do you think if Corbyn was the genuine article and a real threat to “them” he would have been allowed to have got this far?
Money to burn…
link to imgur.com
Time to read again the article on dark arts in voter manipulation:
“Cambridge Analytica worked on campaigns in several key states for a Republican political action committee. Its key objective, according to a memo the Observer has seen, was “voter disengagement” and “to persuade Democrat voters to stay at home”: a profoundly disquieting tactic. It has previously been claimed that suppression tactics were used in the campaign, but this document provides the first actual evidence.”
link to archive.is
Possible explanation for SNP voters staying at home?
Well Kezia Dugdale’s claim to fame seems to be one of losing the UK Labour Party the Election. She knows it, we know, Corbyn knows it, English Labour (All) politicians know it, many enlightened English voters know it and the MSM knows it. In other words Dugdale will go down in history as being a complete and utter totally ignorant, vindictive erseh*le (excuse the language) who has made herself not only a laughing stock but a load of enemies.
The bald facts are that SLab, with the Corbyn surge, has just regained 7 of the 41 seats that they lost 2 elections ago and Davidson has managed to obtain 28.6% of votes (peak STory no doubt) which is less than Thatcher ever won north of the border, bar one election where she had minimally less votes. Maggie didn’t get there either by using ‘dark money’ (maybe? – just used our oil revenue), hoovering up the variegated Unionist / Orange Order votes and going out of her way to avoid mentioning her policies. Bottom line is that neither Labour nor Tory has made much headway over the last 10 / 37 years.
Meanwhile the SNP after 10 years in office have more seats than the 3 Unionist parties put together and is the 3rd party at Westminster. No mean feat especially when you take into account that they have control of a miserable 17.5% of piecemeal powers (7% up until 2016) and have been subjected to one of the worst ever MSM propaganda onslaughts.
Personally I hope that the Tories remain in power. If another Election is called I reckon Corbyn would win and we’d lose more seats. On the otherhand instead of asking Corbyn for £1bn we could have demanded broadcasting be devolved.
No let’s hope that the Tories stay in place and continue to scunner even more Scots into supporting Independence. Meanwhile let’s get moving. Continue to get the word out there hook or by crook.
……………………..
@ Street Andrew says at 9:31 am ….. ”Tony Blair established that breach with the removal of Clause 4 and even Jeremy Corbyn is showing little enthusiasm for repairing the breach. Labour is still well stacked with Blairites who seeing Corbyn as a possible passport to government will stay in line and keep quiet. Until they get onto the government benches or get hammered at which point Corbyn will be toast….”
Excellent post, Street Andrew.
The coverage all election long by that Unionist troll Severin Carroll and his idiotic sidekick Lisa O’Carroll who did all those pieces on Glasgow East and found it remarkably difficult to find an SNP supporter anywhere were comedic gold. It’s shite coverage like that that makes me all the more determined to see us break free and kick that nonsense well behind us. It borders on conspiracy.
As the Tories hand over £1.5 billion to bigots, racists and terrorist supporters i receive a begging letter through my door asking me to help support Erskine Veterans Home.
I wonder if the suited and booted Colonel Gadaftie has anything to say on the matter or has the divvy done a runner with her bivvy?
Aye Capella, fits with less snp voters coming out whilst the unionists come out in force in the areas they target, also do we think these bastards were only targeting marginal seats in England and Wales?:
‘An undercover reporter working for Channel 4 News secured work at Blue Telecoms, a firm in Neath, South Wales.
In an area plagued by unemployment and low wages, the call centre hired up to a hundred people on zero-hours contracts. For weeks, they contacted thousands of potential voters in marginal seats across the UK.’
link to channel4.com
STV is the best system we have, although it needs tweaked. The alphabet should not play such a huge role in deciding who gets elected, so we need to introduce Robson Rotation. Also, STV by-elections make no sense as they ruin the proportionality. By-elections are a hangover from FPTP – other countries that use STV don’t have by-elections.
FPTP may have helped us in 2015, but it’s also contributed to making the 2017 result look far worse than it actually was. The SNP lost about 40% of our MPs, even though our vote-share only went down by 13% (or 26% depending on how you look at it). Just because an unfair system suddenly worked in our favour doesn’t mean we should now support it. There’s a reason proper democratic countries don’t use FPTP.
FPTP is also what leads to people saying list votes in the AMS system at Holyrood are “wasted”. If you removed the FPTP element from Holyrood and just made it a list vote, there’d be no argument for giving Party X your “second” vote, so we’d all have to find something else to argue about on the various pro-indy Facebook groups.
And the list element of AMS is what leads to the likes of Murdo Fraser and Anas Sarwar being elected, which people dislike. At least with STV, those chancers would need to get the backing of the voters, rather than their party.
@Lizg, 11.38am
Very good idea.
O/T – this post about fraud and UK banking gives another example of the state broadcaster in action
link to uti.is
Mr Mundell or Ms Davidson weren’t available for comment today. Sadly, they’ll be back.
Saw a helpful comment on Independent Fbook site ‘England is done.’
What a telling insight…
Ian Duncan Smith, for Tory leader, standing in for Jeremy Vine on Propaganda Station Radio 2.
“The £ billion for the DUP. Is it a bribe? Or would anybody else have done the same?”
So if everybody would have done it, it wouldn’t be bribe??? Sounds that something straight out the Tory Handbook, broadcast on BBC propaganda channel.
Wake the feck up Scotland.
It’s not about Nicola, it’s not about Europe, it’s not about Dugdale, it’s not about Davidson in DPMs. We have a hostile media of occupation telling us what to think counterintuitively, and influencing what our people are free to think. Propaganda is steadily turning “one of us” into “one of them” and they already get more votes than we do.
Media, media, media.
It is ALL about the media. We broadcast? We win. No broadcasting? Then I very much fear we are resolutely courting defeat.
“Oh dear, but what can we do?” Well you could have listen to me four years ago and worn black and white ribbons during BBC interviews to protest at them turning black into white. You could have listened to me on 19th September 2014 when I called for a plebiscite to have the population of Scotland choose precisely which additional powers the Vow should deliver; the principle power being broadcasting. If you don’t want to listen to me. Listen G A Ponsonby. Or Professor Robertson. Or Craig Murray. Or the protests a Pacific quay. You could start to listen now. We are a whisker short of too late, but there is still a chance.
Don’t vex yourselves about Nicola being held to account for distorted accounts of devolved issues, vex yourselves over who it is who is doing the “holding to account”. Oh my word Petunia! It’s the BBC and the media!
Is the penny dropping yet?
I don’t know. Fate has been a bastard to Scotland these passed three centuries, and maybe fate has another knife in the back for Scotland at ScotRef, but freedom for Scotland means destroying the Propagandists. And that’s a fight we currently run and hide from.
Does a tree falling in the forest make any sound if there is nobody there to Listen?
Does an SNP politician with deliverance for Scotland serve any purpose if there no medium to spread the word?
link to caltonjock.com
The aims of the SNP are to obtain independence for Scotland and to further the interests of the Scottish people. Anyone, including commenters on this site, who feels that these aims are not being achieved is entitled to say so.
I suspect many of those SNP voters who voted Tory, did so because they supported leaving the EU.
OT I see in today’s courier that Alex Rowley attended a rally to unite the ‘pro indy left’, he told the Scottish Socialist party that a breakaway from the UK would lead to more austerity.
Also Lynton Crosby’s plans to call Nicola Sturgeon’s bluff by calling a snap second independence referendum was dumped.
@K1 – that’s another example of some determined journalists shining a light into the darkness that is UK elections. Carole Cadwalladr is working away at the Guardian.
So before we agonise over suggested loss of enthusiasm among SNP voters, we need to collect as much information on who voted what and why.
Let’s not forget the fragrant Arlene of the DUP and her pre-election visit to Glasgow, the secret DUP funding of the Leave campaign, their £450,000 donation from a Scottish Tory and his shell companies.
Arlene now has an extra £1 billion to save the Union.
link to archive.is
@proud cybernat.
Not sure if it was the interview in question you quoted below or not, but Nicola answered someone who threw it at her with, “if there is no point sending Scottish representatives to WM then you make a good case for Scottish Independence”.
………….
“I think it was Glenn Campbell who asked the FM what’s the point in sending SNP MPs to WM when they don’t have any power there” – something like that. Well Glenn Campbell – are you paying attention.
…………
“Breeks @ 1235 ” couldn’t agree more . Trying to win Independence with ” one hand tied behind our back” .
The clichéd elephant in the room is Britishness. Historically the term British, for our Union ‘partner’, has been a synonym of English. Unionist Scots adopted it as a blurring supra-nationality but if you read the literature of the 300 years of the Union it has never actually, functionally meant that. Sadly, many Scots were often proud to call themselves Englishmen, for the English always played a straight bat, didn’t they? Well revisionist history, not the stuff often dished up by unionist broadcasters and their favoured historians, tells a different story.
Many Scots, even those styling themselves ‘nationalist’ still manifest admiration for Britain and Britishness. The myth that Britain was a different and more humane imperialist is common; that British exception. Stuff like the Brits gave India railways, Africa schools etc circulates without there being any questioning of the imperialist premise itself. History reveals that Britishness led to the Anglicisation of Scotland. For half the period of the union our country was effectively under military occupation and our population subjected to the predations of an alien system which divided and ruled. Scotland is not a romantic place, except in the bowdlerized pages of unionist history books and the tartan images for tourist consumption. Unless we are a nation of masochists, Britishness, along with its ‘kith and kin’ nonsense, has no place in modern Scotland.
In September 1,617,989 voted Yes.
~100,000 new members joined the SNP
In the May 2015 1,454,436 voted SNP. Continued momentum and general discontent at EVEL and Vow failures.
Nicola’s job is to set the heather on fire and get voter levels of engagement and enthusiasm back up.
IMO she only stands a chance of that by getting Indy firmly back on the timetable. The SNP’s input to the Brexit process will be bu99er all.
Pretending to be engaged in Brexit so that the SNP can then show grievance at being ignored was a fair enough tactic. We’ve now been there done that.
I await Nicola’s announcement in a slightly downbeat and disillusioned state of mind.
Scotland simply must continue to send as many SNP MPs to WM as it possibly can.
Why?
Because ONLY SNP MPs ask the difficult questions the red and blue STories will NEVER ask in parliament, questions that show just how much a sham WM is and how much it is robbing Scotland blind.
For example, had Alex Salmond never doggedly chased William Waldergrave, we would never have had this admission:
link to archive.is
And we would never have known about it because it is not in the interest of Slbour or Story MPs to pursue such matters because that would be rocking the WM boat and they’d be deselected next time and their nose at the trough ended.
The SNP care about Scotland and its people – NOT a WM money trough. Slabour and STory care about themselves FIRST, party SECOND and the people a very poor third. So, the more SNP MPs we have in that WM midden digging around, the better the chance we have of uncovering the real facts about how much the UK is actually damaging to Scotland.
We need to dig out the truth. We won’t ever do that if we do not send as many SNP MPs to Scotland each and every GE.
“…from Scotland each and ever GE.”
Is Nicola’ speech live anywhere?
I am curious to discover how Ms Rowley managed to speak to young voters on the doorsteps. I’ve been knocking doors for years and it is very rare to get a young person answering the door other than infants.
I suspect that is just spin. They are trying to imply that Scottish youth is as enthusiastic as southern youth for Corbyn. Forgetting all the while that in England the cut and paste SNP manifesto he offers is already available here in its original SNP form, and is already known to Scottish young people.
@ Breeks at 12:35pm …. ”Oh dear, but what can we do?” Well you could have listen to me four years ago and worn black and white ribbons during BBC interviews to protest at them turning black into white. You could have listened to me on 19th September 2014 when I called for a plebiscite to have the population of Scotland choose precisely which additional powers the Vow should deliver; the principle power being broadcasting ….. You could start to listen now. We are a whisker short of too late, but there is still a chance. Don’t vex yourselves about Nicola being held to account for distorted accounts of devolved issues, vex yourselves over who it is who is doing the “holding to account”. Oh my word Petunia! It’s the BBC and the media! Is the penny dropping yet?”
I think we’re all VERY well aware Breeks that the only thing holding us back is the propaganda machine, hence Stu (Kavanah, Ponsonby, Robertson, Murray et al) working his butt off on this site. If we had control over broadcasting support would have been well over 70% long ago and we would all be resting on our laurels now. More to the point we would have won the last Referendum.
I’m sure too that many of us did request that broadcasting be devolved in the lead up to Smith but do you really think that Westminster paid any heed to that? If there’s one thing we’ve all learned is that they don’t give a toss for Scotland (rejected every Scotland Bill amendment) and suppressing the truth is ABSOLUTELY crucial to them keeping us in our box hence broadcasting’s the last thing they would have devolved to Scotland: Ever will as long as the Tories, in particular, are in power.
Don’t think that I (and MANY others no doubt) don’t feel your pain, frustration and anger because I do. I could tear my hair out witnessing the constant propaganda strategies that are being used every minute of every day on the Internet, BBC, STV, radio and in all newspapers bar the National. The drip, drip drip of overt out and out lying and covert lying through cherrypicking and omission in an attempt to continue to brainwash the Scots (and rUK). Knowing too that big bucks, which we and the SNP don’t have, are being spent mobilising the might of the whole Establishment against us such as GCHQ and outwith the UK, US and Saudi billionaires.
Time is running out and some of us have made suggestions in relation to circumventing the propaganda machine. At least trying to. Whether they’ll be taken on board is something else. Meanwhile we have to remind ourselves that support for Independence stood at 25% in 2013. It’s now standing at, at least, 45% and polls also show that 92% of Scots who voted for Brexit want to stay in the single market. All we need is another 6% to get us over the line. At the moment many people are basically sitting in limbo-land waiting on the starting whistle to blow. When it does we’ll see renewed vigour and determination taking us right over that winning post and the Unionists know it hence the almighty fight that they are putting up. Have faith Breeks. We’ll get there.
2.20pm is the FM’s speech. I am watching channel 131 (BBC parliament) and it states that the speech will be coming up soon.
Chunky Mark not holding back, as per usual:
link to youtube.com
You know what I’d like to hear in ten minutes or so – SNP holding firm on IndyRef for after Brexit, but Yes Scotland re-forming for a major cross-party role over the next two years, bringing together the Yes groups, headed by Angus Robertson.
FM imminent:
link to scottishparliament.tv
Heh. Neatly done by the FM. 😉
Oh here’s Kez, whining from the sidelines, reading something she wrote earlier, unable to think on her feet, again, ad nauseum.
The SNP have not lost any of their core supporters, i cannot see any other party ruling scotland unless we get independence, and i cannot see how any other party could get back the supporters they have lost because, we as voters have long memories about what the Tories, Labour and Liberals are doing now with all their lies, would i trust any of them, not in a million years, i am over 40 years voting SNP in every election whether it be national or local
I will never change, i am and allways will be for The Socialist Democratic Part called the SNP
YouGov have issued internals data.
Had a look at it today.
It is not Scotland specific, so what can be reliably drawn from it is limited but the SNP data is, of course, Scotland specific and is a large enough sample size to be statistically significant.
According to Yougov and not knowing when? if? or how? weightings have been applied but just accepting the percentages given then:
They say that 23% of those who voted SNP in 2015 did not vote in 2017. If true, that would mean that
1,454,436 (2015 SNP) * 0.77 = 1,120,000 who voted SNP in 2015 also voted for somebody in 2017.
Then they claim that only 71% of those still voted SNP. Which is 795,140 who voted SNP in 2015 and 2017.
Which means that around 325,000 votes from 2015 SNP voters this time went instead to other parties.
Well they have breakdown percentages for that, which gives
Labour – about 174,000
Tory – about 127,000
Libdem – about 23,000
[Aside note. If the Yougov figures are true then because the SNP actually got around 978,000 votes in 2017 then about 142,000 2017 SNP voters did not vote SNP in 2015 i.e. they were either new voters in 2017 or voted for another party in 2015.]
More than half of defections went to Labour, which is not good news (see previous posts) since, barring a rapid reinstatement of Blairite toryism, they will be very hard to win back.
The defectors to the Tories, one presumes hard brexiteers, are a bit higher than I expected but, if Brexit goes visibly wrong they may well be retrievable.
The silver lining is that SLAB now has at least about 25% newly ex SNP (and presumably still pro indy) voters amongst its voting support – plus an X amount.
Assuming the X amount was about the 10% indicated in previous internals, then around 35%ish, but in truth it is probably even more than the that because those who defected from Labour to parties other than the SNP are likely to be hard core unionists further raising the value of X.
While it is clear that defections from SLAB to other parties must have been significant, there is insufficient Scottish specific data to say much about that since for UK wide parties the table only displays UK wide percentages.
Annoyingly, they will have the data which could produce those Scottish specific shifts should they choose to do so.
UK wide 17% of those who voted Labour in 2015 and who voted in 2017 went to other parties, the majority of them to the Tories. But again, one cannot assume similar for Scotland.
However, noting that turn out only dropped by 9% in Scotland and even allowing for a significant increase in new voters that 23% of SNP 2015 voters didn’t vote in 2017 has to be of some concern.
Why were they not motivated?
Pick choose or add to the list:
Complacency?
Traditional non voters temporarily activated by Indyref1 reverting to type? (Let me know when indyref2 is on)
Medium strength Brexiteers but unwilling to vote Lab or Tory?
Westminster? WGAF? types.
@Cal says: 27 June, 2017 at 10:11 am:
” … If nothing else, the last two years have proven that sending SNP mps to London achieves nothing of any great substance and only provides mps from rUK with an opportunity to humiliate Scotland’s mps and by extension the people who vote for them i.e. us. What therefore would have been the point of doing it all again in 2017?
And there you go. Robert Louis, there’s the proof of what I was saying. This person is blaming the SNP MPs for having done nothing while at Westminster and thinks that makes them, the SNP, the voters and Scotland a laughing stock.
This person has either soaked up all the Westminster Establishment propaganda from the MSM and the state controlled broadcasters and firmly believes that independence for Scotland is a lost cause or is actually part of that propaganda.
The SNP MPs are working their socks off but this person believes the propaganda and is right here on Wings doing Westminster’s dirty work for them. Whether by being brainwashed or as a Westminster plant.
How many times has the Rev Stu Campbell shown that you should never take what the MSM or UK broadcasters say as being truth unless they can prove it?
Yet here is just one more person blaming the SNP because of what the propaganda says about them and not what the Hansard records or the actual performance shown on the two parliamentary on-line TV channels shows.
The trouble with that graph Stuart, is that the Scottish vote swings are a tiny portion on the UK scale so are very thin plus the choice of light yellow against white does not help either.
Looking at it, I think I can see an offshoot from the SNP heading off in the direction of Labour but cannot see it at all at the Labour end.
Perhaps they inadvertently buried it under the Green line?
Might be my imagination but the Labour total red bar on the right seems to extend down a little beyond the apparent multi-coloured sum of the others. Perhaps the SNP line might account for that little overlap but for whatever reason, is not visible.
I did some basic calculations based on the percentage shift calculations Yougov provided in their data tables (see a couple of posts up).
Nice graph Rev,
We can see now that the Tory’s ‘snap’-election victory relied on apathy, switching many voters off AND gaining satisfied Ukippers.