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Wings Over Scotland


The Thursday Papers

Posted on December 13, 2012 by

    28 to “The Thursday Papers”

    1. Doug Daniel says:

      I thought you were waiting until after the 21st to be on the safe side?

    2. MajorBloodnok says:

      Good article by Macwhirter (and some useful comments on it, present company included).

    3. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I thought you were waiting until after the 21st to be on the safe side?”

      Your “spend it all now and count on the end of the world arriving before the credit card bill” argument convinced me.

    4. Doug Daniel says:

      “Your “spend it all now and count on the end of the world arriving before the credit card bill” argument convinced me.”

      Excellent. May I suggest your first purchase being a new state-of-the-art server for the blog? 😛 

    5. Training Day says:

      I clicked on ‘Tavish Scott offers his view of independence campaign funding’.  Although semi-comatose, there are 16 people in the picture, suggesting that 16 people, although ultimately to be disappointed in the cogitations of Tavish, turned up to hear it in the first place.  16!

      You’ve taken that too far Stu.

    6. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      Oh dear!  Dr Kenealy is yet another person to state the factual postion that adopting the Euro is dependant upon joining the ERM. Joining the ERM is optional. 

      The rotter! As the Major would say. It gives the impression that the NO side have been scaremongering. That cannot be true. I mean anybody with any sense knows that an Independent Scotland will have to adopt the Euro, will have our airports bombed, not to mention become a financial basketcase.         

    7. balgayboy says:

      yup, we are all doomed if Scotland decides to vote for the option that  we will run our own country. Just watched FMQ and it was a wipeout for the First Minister against a disgrace of a representation of MSP’s who claim to be the voice of their electorate of their wards of Scotland.

    8. muttley79 says:

      I listened to FMQ.  I noticed that Lamont’s ‘tactics’ rarely change.  She basically says Salmond is a liar, he asserts things is another favourite.  Lamont never mentions what she actually supports in terms of policies.  It  seems as if she has learned absolutely nothing from the past five years, which is remarkable in itself. 

    9. Cuphook says:

      A good article from Iain MacWhirter. It’s pretty much the same as my position: Barraso was talking about Scotland and there is no use pretending otherwise. The Scottish Government need to take this issue in hand and speak up for the 5.2M EU citizens who are being played like political pawns.

    10. Doug Daniel says:

      Muttley – to be fair, they’ve learned one thing. They’ve learned that Alex Salmond is a popular guy and folk trust him to look after the best interests of Scotland. Hence the strategy to try and undermine that trust by painting him to be a liar at every opportunity, because they think this is the way to “save the union”.

      It’s funny in a way. The SNP have always been accused of being “obsessed with their narrow separation agenda”, yet the unionists are the ones whose every waking thought is consumed with trying to ward off independence. Perhaps if they’d concentrate on just taking the government to task over devolved issues, rather than this scorched earth policy, folk might listen to them more often.

    11. muttley79 says:

      @Cuphook
       
      Maybe the SG have something up their sleeve?

    12. Aplinal says:

      I have to agree with the comments about the SNP taking a ‘firm’ stand following Barosso’s political intervention in the internal functioning of a member state.  I do wonder whether we are seeing that the SNP have taken their eyes off the ball, of if this is just another ploy of giving people more rope.

      Of course, what it DOES mean, is that IF Barosso refuses to at least talk to Nicola, the SNP can (as MacWhirter suggests) call a press conference and act the ‘aggrieved’ plucky under-dog to the overweening political EU.   It would give them a European, if not a world stage, to get their message across about Scottish Independence.  (Surely Barosso is NOT an Independence mole?  After all he retires in 2014, so would not personally oversee or be ‘responsible’ for the Independence of Scotland, Catalonia, Flanders et al?)

    13. Cuphook says:

      @muttley79

      Maybe they do. There’s still two years to go and the NO campaign’s negativity is going to run itself into the ground by the time the YES campaign really kicks off. However, I still think that this issue should have been handled more firmly. People would have been impressed if Salmond and Sturgeon had stood up for Scotland against some jumped up EU politician.

    14. scottish_skier says:

      Well, Scottish unemployment lower than the rUK again. Was not so long ago I was reading how Scotland was lagging behind and facing a clear unemployment disaster whilst the rUK surged ahead productively in its general amazingness. Yawn.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-20693069

    15. scottish_skier says:

      Hold on a minute. See this whole EU hokey cokey thingy. Is that actually all the pro-union campaign have?

      Given the focus on it, it would seem so. Cripes that’s not much to work with, particularly now that the imaginary Jubilee and Olympics fervour is but a fading memory.  

    16. muttley79 says:

      @Aplinal
       
      I remember when the banking crisis occurred in 2007-2008, the media in Scotland were gleefully saying Salmond was finished because of his promotion of the ‘Arc of insolvency.’  However, at the next Scottish elections the SNP got a majority and we are where we are today.  The glee quickly turned to silence as the situation for the British state became clearer. 
       
      @Doug Daniel
       
      The problem for Scottish Labour is that they are faced with major dilemmas.  Firstly, they want to win the referendum, then they want to regain power at Westminster, and then beat the SNP at Holyrood.  The problem is that even if there is a No vote in the referendum, there is still no guarantee that they will win a general election (as the result is decided in the south of England).  To win there they have to become more and more right-wing.  This is not acceptable to the electorate in Scotland.  They are losing more and more support as they get increasingly negative and bitter about the SNP.  Scottish Labour seems oblivious to the fact that the scorched earth policy cannot work.  You cannot be as negative as them and offer a genuine alternative to the SNP at the same time.  You need to have talent and ideas.

    17. Arbroath1320 says:

      I haven’t read the articles yet but I did watch this video of Max Keiser, courtesy of http://www.auldacquaintance.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/what-are-they-hiding-apocalypse-now/
       
      I know Max can be a bit of an acquired taste but I don’t think there is any doubt that he does cut through the bull and get to the core of the problem. In this episode he certainly, in my view, does that. Let’s just say he will NOT be getting a Christmas card from either Cameron or Osborne after this progroamme. 😀
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9qdVBlKwq4&list=FLBIwq18tUFrujiPd3HLPaGw&index=9

    18. Marcia says:

      If commentators like Joyce McMillan are now saying ( on Radio 4 yesterday) that the No campaign are far too negative and it is counter productive, will they listen? I doubt it and hope they continue their negativity until polling day. The No camp seem to think they are running a positive campaign!?!

    19. scottish_skier says:

      @Marcia
      ” doubt it and hope they continue their negativity until polling day”

      I think you can rest assured this will be the case. The reason is that there’s no positive case for the union. That’s actually the case, I’m not just saying it. It’s why people keep talking about it yet nobody seems to know what it is.

      If smaller countries handing over complete control of themselves/their resources to larger neighbouring ones was a really beneficial thing, everyone would be at it. Switzerland would be dividing itself up between Germany, France and Italy. Denmark would be making frantic appeals to Berlin, Portugal would be enthusiastic about adding itself to Spain…

      Now if you were back in the early 18th century, the neighbour was about to start a huge empire and you’d lost quite a bit of dosh on a poorly thought out project, some might be persuaded to jump on board if the price was right. In today’s world? Na, sounds stupid. Certainly no obvious positives anyway.

    20. Fightback. says:

      Just read the stuff in the Auld Acquaintance site. Very informative. From what I can make out of it all Britain is in really soapy bubble. Everyone in the southern counties of England has been too complacent for far too long. They look smugly at the Greeks and feel instinctively that it couldn’t happen to them. Well it looks pretty much like it IS going to happen to them.
      Only a Yes vote can save Scotland. England IS finished. Culturally, spiritually, socially and financially.
      Check mate. Game set and match. Kaput. Fecked. Buggered. Out the door.
      ”So long, it hasn’t been particularly good to know you.”
       
      ‘Cuir a mach an Sasunnach, is thoir a staigh an cu.’
      (Put out the Englishman, and bring in the dog.) 17th century Lochaber saying.

    21. Marcia says:

      Catalan Referendum to be held in 2014.

      Report in English from El Pais.

      http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/12/12/inenglish/1355341763_404278.html
       

    22. muttley79 says:

      O/T.  I see there is a book coming out called Unstated: Writers on Scottish Independence.  Also, has anyone read Stephen Maxwell’s book?  If so, was it good?

    23. sneddon says:

      fightback
      ‘England IS finished. Culturally, spiritually, socially and financially.’  I find that offensive- proof please.  If someone  wrote that about Scotland  you’d go mental.  I lived in Suffolk for 20 years until last year and thery’re as pissed off as us with westminster.  So please less of the broadbrush anti english shite,  the enemy is westminster and those of your fellow scots who believe in this dammed union who are part of the westminster set up.  

    24. scottish_skier says:

      @sneddon
      Quite. It’s Imperial Great Britain that’s finished. The last death throes of an empire.

      Best favour we could do those south of the border is vote for independence. Hopefully will bring the Westminster system crashing down, bringing democracy back to the neighbours.

      Here, might be an idea for Scotland, England, Wales and NI to declare themselves colonies of Great Britain, vote for independence from the latter, and walk away debt free. Just a thought.

    25. sneddon says:

      S S  good idea I’ve a few froends down south who’d be up for that.  The sooner they get it together for an alternative to the status quo the better.  Because once we’re gone  it’ll be a tougher place for the poorer down there.   At least we’ve got a future to aspire to.  If anyone needs a really good analysis of the current financial mess I can recommend Golem XIV blog and also his book ‘Debt Generation’  Some of it’s fairly heavy going but who said economics was light reading, but fairly on the ball.  Warning some of the posters are *cough* ‘original’  Not as simplistic as the Money Week article linked by Rod but offers a few solutions to the current mess .

    26. AndrewFraeGovan says:

      Sounds good. Independent Scotland, England, Cornwall, Wales and Northern Ireland, while the remaining United Kingdom of London and the South East keep all the debt they generated.

    27. David Smith says:

      Well, an independent north of England would be great too. The only investment that ever comes into the Cumbrian part is in connection with Sellafield. There really is nothing else there now and that’s probably because the Norman Overlords don’t want something so potentially hazardous in their precious ‘Home Counties’, Faced with an alternative of economic oblivion, the working folk of west Cumbria have grabbed the vast number f jobs at Sellafield with open arms.
      A bit like Coulport in those respects I suppose.
      When you see the state of the North East of England and the lack of serious investment in infrastructure to give but one example, it’s clear that Westminster views the people of northern England as some kind of Untermenschen too. 
      A YES victory will open up huge opportunities for ordinary folk far beyond our own border in addition to generating an enormous amount of goodwill throughout the world on a number of levels. 
      I recently saw a slogan showing a map of Scotland bearing the slogan; “The overhaul of the West starts here”. I really like that sentiment! 



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