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The Stoned Roses

Posted on December 08, 2018 by

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    1. 08 12 18 07:56

      The Stoned Roses | speymouth

    577 to “The Stoned Roses”

    1. Ian McCubbin says:

      I am looking for the get out clause lols

    2. Cactus says:

      That’s deep, will take some time…

    3. starlaw says:

      Do you start in the middle and work your way out. Will have to think about it !

    4. gerry parker says:

      Excruciating detail!
      Well done Chris.

    5. Clootie says:

      Chris

      You have options within a limited frame….or does it have an inbuilt shredder?

    6. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      From Ghandi(ish)

      First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they attacked you, then you take the pish out of them then they blow themselves up and you win

    7. cearc says:

      Bbbbut.. Scotland voted for ‘Monarch of the Glen’.

    8. Morgatron says:

      Hehe,superb as always Chris.More routes than the London underground all leading to dead ends. May is more a Smoked Haddie than a Pollock now.

    9. Hamish100 says:

      Looks more like a blown up photograph of Corbyns bed pan.

      Tape worms are nasty things. Diarrohea is a natural consequence of which he has plenty off.

      (apologies for anyone having breakfast)

    10. Abulhaq says:

      Wee ‘Scottish’ item on Today prog. Hooper swans on ‘lock’ ie loch in nature reserve in Aberdeenshire. Warden is English, of course.
      Scots need not apply for jobs anent national culture and natural patrimony etc.

    11. Muscleguy says:

      Douglas Adams taught us the answer is 42, they’re looking at the wrong picture!

    12. Donald anderson says:

      You start from the outside and expect the centre to follow you.

    13. starlaw says:

      Oh what a tangled web we weave ….

    14. Abulhaq says:

      And Pollock’s life ended in a car crash….

    15. Stan Moore says:

      Jeezo, it’s been a few years since i dabbled with level 6 “SSAD” data flow diagrams, but this is beyond comprehension, those external entities seem a bit obvious, iffy and too close for comfort, gonna give my good mate Ron Jeremy a quick call and get him to exlain this spurt of a mess, this is the kinda mess he thrives on….

    16. Kenny says:

      Theresa says ‘This is the one’, Nicola says ‘ I Am The Resurrection ‘ and I’m gonna ‘Shoot you down’.

    17. Stan Moore says:

      Jeezo, it’s been a few years since i dabbled with level 6 “SSAD” data flow diagrams, but this is beyond comprehension, those external entities seem a bit obvious, iffy and too close for comfort, gonna give my good mate Ron Jeremy a quick call and get him to exlain this spurt of a mess, this is his line of work, he thrives on it….

    18. Golfnut says:

      Is the plan May is using, we need to know.

    19. Stan Moore says:

      Please excuse the accidental copy post, got a crap cold plus moby had a wee brain freeze, p.s excellent analysis Chris…. cheers

    20. Street Andrew says:

      Aye,but there’s no frame. Somebody must have had that away as being more valuable than the picture.

    21. wull2 says:

      Just to make it clear to everyone, you have a copy of our plan B.

    22. yesindyref2 says:

      Good Heavens!

      That’s Kevin Hague’s finest work yet!

    23. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Stan Moore @ 8.56 and 8.58

      Another messy screen from splittered coffee.

      Ron Jeremy, you can always rely on Ron for a messy conclusion, but, to be fair, he times his to perfection (allegedly). How unlike our Imperial Masters.

    24. Kenno says:

      Turner prize winner Chris

    25. auld highlander says:

      Is that the best option?

    26. Famous15 says:

      “There is no sanity clause”

      Marx (no not Karl)

    27. DerekM says:

      No 46 hmm was that the one where they all ran around screaming because Bojo had just insulted most of the world?

      or was that the one about them having a plan but not having a plan but definitely having a plan that they did not have and not wanting to tell anybody what the plan they definitely had was in case anybody found out about the plan that they did not have?

      lol

    28. Gary45% says:

      Classic Chris, Nice one as always.

    29. David Innes says:

      Re: Ian McCubbin at 7.06.. More chance of finding Santa Clause than a ‘get-out’ clause

    30. galamcennalath says:

      A brave attempt, Chris, but you’re missing one outcome on the bottom right. The scenario where Liam Fox negotiates 51st state status with Trump. 🙁

    31. Capella says:

      I think you’ve rather over-simplified the issues here, Chris. A few red lines would clarify. 😉

    32. Frank Gillougley says:

      Yes, Chris, Pollock was quite mad wae it, ye know?

      I tried to listen to Newsnight last night. It just struck me listening to these four people babbling on and arguing and talking over one another that it was as if right there was the state of the Unionist delusion/empire in its death throes.

      They too were quite mad wae it and they still lack any form of self-awareness, such is the extent of their disease.

      I fear it’ll go on interminably for a very long, long time. The prognosis is terminal.

      Its time we left the room, Nicola. Leave them to it.

    33. Breeks says:

      There’s a plan? Huzza! Progress!

      I thought we were just running blindly at the brick wall and shouting “Open Sesame” right at the last second.

      It troubled me very deeply that JK Rowling might sue Theresa May for plagiarism.

    34. `The Stoned Roses`

      anyone not sure of the title reference,

      “As with most Stone Roses releases, the cover displays a work by John Squire, in this case a Jackson Pollock-influenced piece titled “Bye Bye Badman”, which makes reference to the May 1968 riots in Paris. The cover was named by Q magazine as one of “The 100 Best Record Covers of All Time.”

    35. ronnie anderson says:

      Chris your supposed to be ah cartoonist no ah Tate Modernist lol .

    36. Kenno says:

      England is becoming more and more distant by the day.

      It is becoming more and more Foreign in every sense of the word.

      From the outside looking in it looks like a country that is heading for a major slump and if we don’t detach ourselves from them then we are heading the same way.

    37. ronnie anderson says:

      Aw Ffs Amber Rudd promoting plan B = Norway + , ah’ve set ma phaser tae Severe Malky an it hiz ah hair trigger so’s ah might no be here by Monday .

    38. Golfnut says:

      So that’s what an Eton mess looks like.

    39. Mike says:

      G4S security firm have informed their workforce IN THE UK ONLY that from next year they will be entitled to 8 days LESS paid leave per annum due to the NEW UK GOVERNMENT guidelines and workers legislation.
      This is what the Tory right mean by taking back control from Brussels.
      So to all of those G4S employees who voted for Brexit enjoy your consequences you fucking imbeciles.

    40. jfngw says:

      In my view the SNP are currently taking a sensible position Brexit and trying to keep the whole UK in the EU. It is not a good idea to have a land border with a state that looks like it will be in turmoil for some time if Brexit happens with no deals. It will affect us no matter how much we would rather it didn’t, we just need to look at history to see this.

      What it has done, no matter what the Brexit outcome, has proven that the Union is a sham and needs to be ended as soon as possible.

      Meanwhile Tompkins in the Herald crows about what a privilege it is to be a rule taker from Westminster, a scenario that has only arisen because of the shambles there and the removal of powers. It is a sort of blackmail of course, since not approving some of the legislation will directly affect people badly. It’s how Tories work of course, and currently being used by May to try to blackmail MP’s to vote for her terrible deal.

    41. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I think the Tories are now at the stage where Baldrick will sidle-up to the Maybot, somewhere around Tuesday morning, to say: “Prime Minister, I have a cunning plan.”

    42. Kenno says:

      The only real option on the table is No Deal.

      All other options cancel each other out because Labour and Tory alike don’t want to be the ones who sanction a second Brexit Referendum.

      They know a second vote would lead to major riots around England.

    43. galamcennalath says:

      Everything associated with Brexit looks a bit like that painting … chaotic.

      Apparently the Home Office Brexit app is having problems.

      “They’ve basically put out an app that isn’t ready to put into beta testing, never mind ready for Brexit,” said one German national

      …. a metaphor for Brexit itself!

      http://archive.is/oDeHm

    44. Proud Cybernat says:

      Pretty sure String Theory is much simpler in comparison.

      Nice one, Chris.

    45. Grouse Beater says:

      Art on art, Chris. Creatively Pollock painted himself into a corner and had nowhere to go, so to speak, thus your latest cartoon is a great analogy. Spot on. Many thanks.

      Your essential weekend reading:

      England as a Colony: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-ndV
      The English Nationalist: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-nbC

    46. Kenno says:

      Tommy Robinson has his eyes set on becoming the next UKIP leader, which will legitimise his far right thugs and he could even become an MP one day.

      We must leave these English lunatics behind and let them devour themselves with their built in fascism and racism.

    47. galamcennalath says:

      I hope this gynaecologist makes better medical decisions than political ones!

      http://archive.is/b5w5W

      Many lessons are to be learnt from the times we live in. Especially for Scotland! However, in a wider sense, so much has been laid bare. Our liberal society relies on trusting others – politicians, media, institutions, professionals, and academics. Few have come out of this well.

      Anyone who wasn’t a sceptic before should be now!

    48. Capella says:

      @ Mike – on G4S reducing staff paid leave by 8 days (which must be almost the entire annual leave entitlement in the UK). Is the Tory Government actively inciting civic unrest?

      They remind me of the Bill Hicks sketch of Jack Palance “Pick Up the Gun”:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IZfpGG2cBE

    49. blackhack says:

      Looks like a snakes and ladders board without the ladders….:)

    50. Valerie says:

      @ ronnie

      I like how Rudd is at least 24 hours behind the news cycle. Ciaran Jenkins C4, stuck a short vid clip on Twitter, interving Norwegian Minister Lunde.

      It’s very funny, but basically, when asked about Britain joining EFTA, her response is “Fuck off, you’re not wanted. We watched you shit the bed”

      Great toon Mr C.

    51. Colin Alexander says:

      If it’s decided by UK Parliament that we are leaving full EU membership, it’s nonsense to say we must wait to see what the UK decides will be the alternative to EU membership, so people know the choices.

      We were promised: NO = Scotland is guaranteed to remain in the EU.

      One thing we learned from 2014 is many fear change -especially the older someone gets – and Scotland has an ageing population. Also, those that feel satisfied with THEIR life, don’t want ANY change: “I’m alright (Union) Jack”.

      Project Fear was the winner in 2014.

      This time everyone would know: YES or NO would be a vote for uncertainty.

      YES would be a vote where we can choose our path in an uncertain world.

      If UK Parliament confirms any flavour of “Brexit”, Indyref MUST be announced.

    52. Brilliant cartoon Chris. I think every Tory/Labour MP should be given one of these drawings and asked to find the way through. They are all fighting for the top spot now. Tuesday will be the day of the lemmings.

      Re Amber Rudd’s proposal – A sort of Norway option

      As is said on the previous post – Norway does’t want the UK. How far behind the curve are these Tories. When interviewed this morning she was at pains to point out that it would involve freedom of movement which would go against the PM’s red lines but she categorically denied that T May was dead in the water if she loses the vote on tuesday – a case of Keep calm and carry on.

      I think she will have to be prised out of the job like a limpet and sadly Corbyn will be no replacement.

      If not time to man the lifeboats it’s long past the time to make sure they are stowed and ready to launch.

    53. Luigi says:

      Quite a constitutional Gordian Knot, this Brexit shambles. Good luck to the BBC in selling this bute to the Scottish public. Well, as history fans will know, there is only one way to “solve” the Gordian Knot problem. And it ai t for the faint-hearted. 🙂

    54. Maybe it’s time for the Queen of Scots and England to knock some Politicians’ heads together and instruct them that she will form a government of National Representation in these unusual times, led by Nicola Sturgeon.
      Could be a Christmas speech with a difference?

    55. Dan Huil says:

      That’s not a Jackson Pollock. That’s a copy of Ross Thomson’s signature.

    56. galamcennalath says:

      Apparently there’s to be a Brexit Betrayal march by the far right.

      I can only assume they are ‘fearful’ that a ‘real’ Brexit, as they would see it, might not happen.

      They will blame politicians for not delivering.

      Has it actually occurred to ordinary Brexiteers that the betrayal is not in the delivery but in the impossible promises made before EURef?

      If a salesman promises free beer and pizza for life with every flatscreen TV, does it make sense down the line to march in protest that your beer and pizza aren’t being delivered?

      The reality if the situation is two fold – firstly, why did you allow yourself to be so ill informed that you believed the promises, and secondly, why are those who made ridiculous promises not being pilloried?

    57. @Valerie,

      watched that interview with the Norwegian politician ,Heidi Nordby Lunde, and thought it was a spoof (still not 100% sure),

      comparing the UK Gov to an abusive partner that spiked the drinks before a Christmas party,not to sure about the analogy but you get the sentiment,

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYOOiOF4IVE

      and her opinion of UK joining the European Free Trade Association (EFTA),

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOyHBUk_rGs

      “i think you would mess it up for us like you have messed it up for yourselves”,

      `O wad some Power the giftie gie us. To see oursels as ithers see us! It wad frae mony a blunder free us, An’ foolish notion:).

    58. ALAN GERRISH says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      8 December, 2018 at 12:16 pm
      @Valerie,

      watched that interview with the Norwegian politician ,Heidi Nordby Lunde, and thought it was a spoof (still not 100% sure)

      This might help to make it 100% sure:

      Heidi Nordby Lunde is a Norwegian politician for the Conservative Party. She was elected as deputy to the Parliament of Norway from Oslo in 2013. She meets as deputy for Ine Marie Eriksen Søreide, and is member of the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs. Wikipedia

    59. HandandShrimp says:

      While I never thought Brexit would be simple it is a source of constant amazement to me just how much of an arse May and Co have made of it. From her weird and wobbly election bid to the inability of her cabinet to agree on anything for even 5 minutes everything they touch turns to merde.

    60. cynicalHighlander says:

      It’s a map of the galaxy free trade area.

    61. Josef Ó Luain says:

      @ Kenno

      I can’t see English pro-Leave rioters taking-to-the-streets. Where’s the upper-class, chinless eejit they’d need to inspire, lead and “legitimise” their actions?

      I can, however, see a handful kicking their ingrained Tory-voting habit and dropping-out of the political process altogether.

      You don’t have to watch Question Time to know that the English public has never really managed to get-to-grips with things political/democratic. Unfortunately, many here in Scotland aren’t far ahead of them, as was revealed in 2014.

    62. Shug says:

      Given we are headed to a brexit disaster and an indy ref2 with the yes starting at over 50% WHO do you think england will start a war with to divert attention
      Spain over gibraltar
      Argentina over falklands
      Russia for something
      Ireland
      Anyone offering odds

    63. wull2 says:

      The EU can follow the route supplied by WM to give the people of Scotland there answer.

    64. Bob Mack says:

      Perfect descriptor for Brexit Chris.

      “It’s only when I lose contact with a painting that everything is a mess. Otherwise there is pure harmony”

      Jackson Pollock.

      I think the Tories lost contact with Brexit and reality long ago.

    65. uno mas says:

      “Art for art sakes”

      “Vote yes for fcuk sakes”

      Has quite a catchy ring to it, do you not think?

    66. wull2 says:

      Its like a picture where everybody sees a different thing, what do you see, to be honest I just see a mess.

    67. galamcennalath says:

      Josef Ó Luain says:

      a handful kicking their ingrained Tory-voting habit and dropping-out of the political process altogether

      Indeed. In particular, I hope a lot of Tories in Scotland don’t vote!

      However, in a general sense, it’s never good when democracy fails.

      It has been said that Tony Blair’s biggest achievement was to put millions off voting altogether. Rev Stu once pointed this out in an article, I believe.

      This Brexit episode has been a total failure of democracy because power and influence have been abused, again. I agree, a lot of Tories and Brexiteers are going to be left disenchanted and disenfranchised.

    68. Capella says:

      OT – for those appalled and/or baffled by how far the trans gender debate has departed from reality, here’s an excellent twitter thread on the scientific basis, via Stu’s twitter:

      https://twitter.com/mrkhtake2/status/1036307008318779395

    69. Artyhetty says:

      Hah ha, gave me a chuckle thanks Chris. An art collector friend of mine often quotes this, ‘the saying goes, the best career move for an artist is when they shuffle off this mortal coil’.

      Pollock’s work sells for millions, I am sure that Brexit one would be worth a very large fortune. Shame Brexit is going to make most people just that much poorer. Notice food prices creeping up in the shops anyone? 10p here, 30p there.

    70. Giving Goose says:

      Re Shug.

      Scotland?

    71. handclapping says:

      The man’s a genius! He’s got us all believing its a Pollock and its nothing like a Pollock; I now understand what they mean by con-artist! Cairns, you’re good, very good 🙂

      But seriously that looks like someone just lost their way. One thing Pollock did was go over the edge of his canvas and thats just like us on March 29th. May is running the clock down in the hopes of getting her way on the grounds of TINA but Brexiteers will prefer the edge.

      I’m old enough to remember our struggles to get in in the 70s, our industries were a mess we didn’t have the management. 40 years of employment and increasing GDP came from inward investment but it all came with flown in management too so we still dont have managers. Any Brexit will be a disaster

    72. Dr Jim says:

      Everybody says we’re going to die without question but it’s OK because we get to make the rules for our own death

      We want to leave the EU because they’re bad, then we want to join up with them again without any rules because they’re our friends, but our friends in the bad EU say no we must follow the rules to join up, we say we’ll make other rules that are better rules and then we’ll join up, our bad EU friends say then we’ll have to pay in to the club, we say listen bad friends in the EU you Bastirts aren’t listening we’re British so are entitled to do what we want, our bad friends in the EU say would you British just do one we’re busy now

      Meanwhile elsewhere in Europe our Norwegian friends are saying no no no we don’t want you British lot here yer too much trouble and you can’t be trusted

      Across the pond in America the land of lots of swimming pool chickens our friend the President says *I really don’t think so* either

      Thank God though here in *Britain* we have the Labour party who say *We will mblmpf and then we will definitely negotiate a new swnplmph with everyone and after we lose a General election we’ll say it again*

      In Scotland (which is a country in the UK) the position is completely different the SNP governing and largest party and choice of the electorate say *We can leave the UK and be in the EU club again exactly as we voted for problem solved* but the branch offices of the London parties say NO if England dies Scotland must die along with them because we’re *British*

      We shouldn’t need Compare the market.com for this

      Hands up for not being British? a free cuddly toy, free tickets to the pictures and cheap dining out for all the family…..now that’s a good deal and nobody dies

      In Scotland that is!

    73. galamcennalath says:

      Me @ 12:14pm

      I see the Brexit Betrayal rally is by the far far right, not just the elected far right.

      http://archive.is/opPL7

      They might still get what they want, in the form of a no deal cliff jump Brexit!

      However, that wasn’t exactly what Leave offered. It was a wonderful vision of English Independence which retained all those good bits of the EU relationship. And it was all to be so easy!

      They were sold a crock of shite but told it was finest double cream. Yes, a lot of Brexiteers are justified in feeling angry. However, they need to look at who actually betrayed them, and why they themselves were so susceptible to being duped?

    74. Abulhaq says:

      @DrJim
      Millions emigrated and hundreds of thousands died for the dubious privilege of being British.
      We must end this morbid ‘masochism’. 300years of national self-harming is quite enough.

    75. Clootie says:

      Colin Alexander trying to be “on our side”.
      They must be getting worried at HQ.

    76. HandandShrimp says:

      I saw a piece on line covering a claim that Trump’s anti media stance was first struck by Alex Salmond. Article is in the Scotsman, I think, but original claim is unsurprisingly by that exponent of fake news Torrance. Thought it had been a while since anyone had entertained his made up nonsense and pro Tory propaganda.

    77. Jack Murphy says:

      OT. The May/Mundell Tories strike again.—- EU Citizens in Scotland.

      “The UK Government will not allow Holyrood ministers to pay £65 settled status fees for European citizens who are working in Scotland’s public services, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

      The First Minister has already promised her government would pick up the cost for NHS staff and other public-sector workers who have come to live in Scotland from other parts of the European Union.

      But she told the Health and Social Care Scotland conference in Glasgow the “UK Government will not allow third-party payments, thereby forcing EU citizens to pay it upfront”.” 🙁

      STV on-line yesterday.

    78. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 14:46,

      It all seems to be part of a move by Leavers across the spectrum, clearly worried about an escalating shift in public opinion even in England (as the realities begin to intrude upon the fantasies), to hypocritically claim that they monopolistically represent the will of the people whilst simultaneously hinting at violence if the people dare get another say.

      We had Alison Pearson on R4 midday news the other day punting this line. Never mind that the more people learn about this megaguddle, the less they like it. But I wonder if she, or her BBC megaphone, have thought of the potential consequences of this kind of threatening behaviour on the body politic?

      Or the special dispensations now being offered to NI because of its own bloody history, but not available to peaceful, constitutional, law-abiding Scotland, despite its clear preference.

      Are we then supposed to conclude that the only way we can get what we want is to up the ante in an extremely nasty way…?

    79. ronnie anderson says:

      Valerie Rudd is like the coracle rudderless . Labour & Tories up shit creek withoot ah paddle .

    80. Cactus says:

      Funny how the red rose is the emblem of both, the UK Labour (Scotland) and that of our neighbouring country of England…

      Anyway what in the world are they (England and their politicians) to do with their hellofahullabaloo… ah think they think they are the resurrection like, maybee’s they just want tae be adored like and now looking back to a previous Cairnstoon like… we see they are now only lonely islands in the stream, about to head over their Brexit waterfall of their own making.

      SO therefore vote for your own Scottish thistle.

      Say Yes fur yer ain flower.

      Mon the Jags!

      NB aye relaxed me eyes further and had another look thru Jackson’s landscape… aye can now see in 3D a large ship going down by the head, aye aye captain

    81. Confused says:

      Now what we want is for all the SNP MPS to turn up at Westminster and cover everyone in paint.

    82. Iain mhor says:

      @Shug 12:40pm

      Was thinking the same thing today, there’s a military crisis missing so far – so it must be pending.
      Always the default for a government in soapy.

    83. gus1940 says:

      Jack M @3.17

      Surprise Surp.rise – BBC NonReporting Scotland have ignored this

    84. Bobp says:

      Abulhaq 8.36am. “Warden is english,of course scots need not apply”. Now now you be careful Abulhaq, down with that sort of talk, you’ll be accused of being a bigoted racist by certain others on here. I know your only stating a fact.

    85. Cactus says:

      GOAL! Storey follows Spittal.

      Scenario 47 coming soon.

      COYJ.

    86. Arthur Thomson says:

      I’m sure the brains of the 77th have got that little enigma sussed. Very soon they will have devised an algorithm to guide their Brit masters in finding the right exit strategy.

      We all know how good the Brits are at exit strategies.

      Maybe not. Lol.

    87. I would like to say why is it all wrong for England to set our laws Etc.,but alright for the e.u.to do so I,mean getting rid of 1 master to then get 27 other ones is not independence I do not want to be in the U.K. Or tha E.U or NATO or the U.N.Or a special relationship with the U.S. I want independence to mean mean just that no one else telling or advising us what to do this unity is strength is a myth it means outsiders having a say in your affairs and no one will look after your affairs better than you will the word independence means freedom not tied to any one else

    88. Golfnut says:

      I can’t be absolutely certain, but I suggest every law introduced into Scots law and has benefited the People of Scotland has come from the EU. Can’t think of any originating in Westminster that can make that claim.

    89. frogesque says:

      @Blair Patterson 4.29

      Bollocks!

      I think you will find that the EU has the RoI’s back in this Brexit malarkey.

      Westminster is the pariah, or piranha of you prefer. Feeding off the flesh of others.

    90. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Blair Paterson @ 16:29,

      Why am I not surprised at your latest ignorant outburst? It comes as a complete bigot packet, I suppose.

      The Leaver lie that we get “27 bosses” is manifestly self-contradictory for starters, since the same wierd logic would have to apply individually to each of the rest as well. A club of mutual bullies? Ridiculous! =mocking laugh=

      (Unless your paranoia is reaching clinical proportions. In which case, best get medical advice.)

      It’s a collective of sovereign nation states, you dummy. Why are people like you still wasting our time with laughable self-evident nonsense like this?

      Just look at Ireland right now. With the force multiplier that the EU is providing them right now, are people there entertaining drivel like this? Take a wild guess…!

    91. galamcennalath says:

      Some rich eejits, who don’t care about the rest of us, aren’t happy. Their money has not been well spent!

      “Donors say the Leave victory has been “squandered” by “cowards” as they vow to bankroll a Brexit political party.”

      http://archive.is/5Xntw

      Brexit, or the pursuit of it, will never go away. Even if it doesn’t happen this time, the EU will have a partner who isn’t committed to the relationship.

      In a twisted sort of a way, it has that in common with Indy! We won’t be giving up either.

      Still, the people of England voted for their ‘independence’ and if tested again they might well confirm that result. They need to be allowed to sail off into their mid Atlantic sunset. They just shouldn’t be demanding the rest of us follow.

    92. Thepnr says:

      @Blair Paterson

      You want to be an isolationist then, that’s not how to run an independent country unless you want it to be run exactly as North Korea is.

      Why don’t you move there?

    93. Robert Peffers says:

      Apparently Jackson Pollock himself doubted that it was a painting, (according to his wife).

      I’m going to have to agree with him – I’ve never got to grips with impressionism. At least that’s my impression of the situation.

    94. galamcennalath says:

      Golfnut @4:38pm

      I tend to thing nothing useful or positive has come out of WM since devolution began. And before that was grudgingly set up, not much for a long ways back.

      WM is a negative for Scotland, continually. A millstone round the neck of our aspirations dragging us under. And now threatening to take us off a cliff!

      The EU, by contrast, has done a lot of good things for us.

    95. K1 says:

      No one has stated there is not overwhelming English/Anglo bias in our political set up…that’s a fact…people like you bobp are campaigning to exclude English voters living in Scotland from voting in our referenda…you are conflating ‘facts’ with your own bias…instead of being against the political set up, which we are all against, not because ‘they are English’, but because it is simply unfair. You are against the English people who live here and want therm to be disenfranchised simply because they come from the country that happens to house the government who are creating all the unfairness.

      Why don’t you think before you type and not assume that we are all stupid and don’t see how you are ‘sidling’ up to posters who ‘you’ think are saying the same thing as you?

      You are centred on the aspect of our English residents as ‘foreign’ i.e. not Scottish and therefore to be barred from voting in our constitutional status. You fail to realise or even understand that your views are an anathema to the whole independence movement in Scotland and will never gain traction. We are civic nationalists, not blood and soil and either you are wilfully obscuring this or are too stupid to know the difference.

      Either way your snide little comments are noted for what they are, a man desperately masking his own insecurities and incapable of mustering the arguments to convert those who hold differing views thereby resorting to casting out those he perceives as the ’cause’ rather than the political set up itself being the essential cause with which to engage those who are against the proposition.

      Give. It. A. Fucking. Rest.

      No on is buying what you are selling on here…nor what your compatriots espouse either.

    96. K1 says:

      Patersons’ a ‘little Scotlander’ nae difference a’tween him and his counterparts down south…ignorant.

    97. Alba woman says:

      Looks like the inside of Big Teresa’s brain on a good day.

    98. Albaman says:

      Hey Rev,
      What’s this I read in the internet. I will not buy nor read The Scotsman, but apparently that well know numpty D.Torrance has a book out, in which he asserts that A.Salmond was the first to use /or attract the press for printing “fake news”, and that Donald Trump was just following suit.
      (I do remember he claimed to be A.Salmonds biographer, to which the said A.Salmond had a very suitable reply, along with that withering look!.

    99. K1 says:

      If your premises are false

      Your conclusions are false

      No one has fallen off the planet because the earth isn’t flat. Flat earthers have a hard time with this because their premise that the earth is flat is false, therefore instead of changing their premise in light of factual observations they steadfastly refuse to change their premise and claim everyone else has been taken in by the factual observations and it is everyone else who is therefore holding the false premise that the earth is a globe.

      Flat earthers ironically are really good at circular arguments.

    100. Graeme says:

      @ Blair Patterson

      This why would you want to break away from the UK just to be ruled by the EU 27 mantra is getting really fucking tedious, if you are really that fucking thick that you don’t know the difference you shouldn’t be posting on here

    101. Cubby says:

      Blair Paterson@4.29pm

      I’m getting really fed up reading your mince. Give it a rest.

    102. Dr Jim says:

      Gene Roddenberry wiz right:

      See thae Romulans ye jist cannae trust them no tae start wars and trouble wae everybody else wae their no keepin tae their bargains and cheatin on peace deals

      Federation of Planets? but naw the Romulans stay oot shoutin and bawlin and go aboot killin folk and causin bother wae aw the good guys

      Then then eventually the good guys end up batterin the Romulans stupit for bein a bunch of Arsholes

      Who’d want tae be a Romulan eh

      Wiz that too deep?

    103. Cactus says:

      One wiz having a further look thru Jackson’s landscape… Clickonit.

      Sure, ye can all see the bow and starboard side of HMS Titanic UK under their own political baggage on the waves at the bottom rhs of the tapestry yeah yeah..

      But can anybuddy see (in 3D) the bus/coach going from right to left about to go over the cliff off of the springboard.. the Dover Express! Nice work Mr C.

      Once you see it, you can’t unsee what you’ve seen now. 😉

      Hauf time an the fitba’s finished 2.

      FT @92, Jags 2 at HOME, Maryhill G20:
      https://ptfc.co.uk/jagzone/

    104. K1 says:

      The trouble wi the Romulans is their fucking cloaking device…them Labour wans are what Wings has been great at uncloaking…fortunately for Scotland.

    105. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Clootie

      I’m on the side of the ordinary sovereign people of Scotland. That’s why I support independence for Scotland.

      why? I believe that’s the best choice for the ordinary people of Scotland.

    106. Dr Jim says:

      Romulans might “not normally” use their cloaking device unless there’s a “Spectrum” of possibilities and then “It may well be possible” they definitely might for sure depending on “circumstances at the time”

    107. Simon Curran says:

      @Blair Paterson
      Personally I’d like to remain in the EU. The point is though that, as always, Scotland gets no say in her future. Under the status quo Scotland is utterly powerless however many people vote contrary to England or however many SNP MPS are elected. There is only one way out of this hegemony, dissolve the union and let voters in Scotland decide Scotland’s future.

    108. Great cartoon. Are you sure it’s not Derek McInnes’s tactic board, vs Saints today?

    109. Cactus says:

      Well whaddya know… Next fixture:

      D day the 10th Dec 2018.

      COYJ vs COYR.

      2pm KO.

      BREAKING…
      Now less than 24 days remaining to go till iHogmanay!

    110. yesindyref2 says:

      Just for interest, therere’s a paper “Advice by the Legal Adviser to the European Union Committee—The UK’s obligations under the EU Budget on withdrawal from the EU without a withdrawal agreement”

      https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldeucom/125/12511.htm

      which argues that the A50 invocation was in the terms of the Vienna Convention on the laws of Treaties, and mentions Article 3 of the Lisbon Treaty

      “5. … shall contribute to [ … ] the strict observance and the development of international law”

      and then this from that HoL paper:

      “6.Importantly, the CJEU has in the past relied on the Vienna Convention to interpret EU law.”. And even UKIP quoted the Vienna Convention as a reason the UK could withdraw immediately!

    111. Terence callachan says:

      K1…cubby…Graeme…Robert Sutherland…thepnr…

      Hey guys…bollocks…how do you lot feel when that is aimed at you….
      Patterson and others have an opinion, valid opinions, opinions they are allowed to put forth, if you don’t like them or disagree with them go ahead and have a grown up mature comment but save us the bullying nonsense and pressure that you impart on people who have every bit as much of a right to say what they think on this site.
      I could swear and use foul language and bullying tactics like you lot but have a wider view of the World you see.
      Get a grip
      Everyone or just about everyone that comes on here wants Scottish independence and there are many routes suggested, what we don’t need are asses hee hawing and kicking up their hind legs every time someone says something that doesn’t fit their narrow view of the world.
      I’m pro EU but I’m not thick enough to ridicule a Scottish independence supporter who is against being in the EU.
      Look yourself in the mirror
      Read comments on here
      Respond to them if you wish
      But do so mannerably for all our sakes
      Your aggression trying to close down arguments and limit opinions is out of order

    112. yesindyref2 says:

      And for the anoraks, an interestng article here discussing that Article 50 and its reasons for being:

      http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

    113. Iain mhor says:

      @Blair Paterson
      Ever run a company, know anyone who does?
      You can operate a wee company without being part of any buying/trade association at all. Until a company who does operates on your doorstep, then your business is doomed.
      If you start to pay into trade collectives to benefit from collective buying powers and slightly better discount structures, you might just survive.
      When your margins are in the small percentages you must, or you are doomed to lose trade to the business next door, doing the same product 10p or a pound cheaper.
      Funnily enough those collectives operate under rules and regs your company must abide by.

      You are a toley if you think any country does not have to abide by any rules and regulations set by such organisations. The trick is having a voice as a stakeholder to influence them.
      Where small business individually might be at the mercy of a larger groups rules, they might form or join a ‘Small Business Collective’ whose rules and regs you have more say in and which then operates within the larger trade collectives with a stronger voice. You’re now paying into and taking rules from two organisations ad-infinitum – But funnily enough, you’re still trading and still run your business your way and get to influence the rules and regs affecting it.

      You away and have a word with a business or a schoolchild who will explain it and don’t peddle arrant fantasy, isolationist nonsense.

    114. Abulhaq says:

      @Bobp
      With my background I abhore the noxious rhetoric of primitive racism. Nevertheless, it is not a good idea to put ones national culture and patrimony in the hands of ‘others’, however well intentioned. In Scotland there has been rather too much of that. Years ago, I note, the venerable Neil Asherson lamented the fact that Scots seemed to care little for perceived ‘effete’ issues, issues that are in fact the very stuff of national identity. Such identity is a rather delicate flower, easily crushed or worse, appropriated, in the wrong hands.

    115. Thepnr says:

      @Terence callachan

      You’re the one that need to “get a grip”.

      How many times have your lies over the number of English born people living in Scotland needed to be pointed out to you yet still you choose to ignore the official figures from the 2011 census.

      You callachan are poisonous to the Yes movement and so are all your “friends” that want to make Independence for Scotland all about being anti-English and blood and soil Nationalism.

      YOU ARE WRONG and it’s you and your pals that think the same that need to get a fucking grip!

    116. Cactus says:

      Saturday night with Wings… here we fortuitously go!

      Sum’day PLAY a song like.

      iScotland rising.

      Hats on.

      TSR.

    117. Terence callachan says:

      To Blair Patterson…
      Hello..

      I like being in the EU
      I like the idea that it is possible to opt out of certain things which is in my view what makes being in EU different from UK
      I like free movement I think people moving around the various countries in EU has increased , I like that, I reckon it helps us to see that people are people no matter where they are, be it France Spain North Korea Scotland or china, we are all humans trying to have a good healthy life.
      I have reservations about NATO but initially I think it would be a good idea for Scotland to be in it, we hold a vitally strategic position on the map and for many countries it is important that USA and Russia are not imbalanced so a change in the near future would in my opinion be a risky business.I would prefer a discussion within NATO that keeps USA and Russia in friendly communication because it would not gain Scotland anything to have warships all around our coast escalating distrust.
      It would be nice if NATO was not necessary, in fact I would say right now, is it necessary ?
      Russia and China are teaming up USA are stupidly posting war ships in the China sea ,it’s a dangerous situation, I’m glad it’s on the other side of the world but it could have easily have been here on this side, all it takes is fear, fear of another countries intentions.
      I’m not in favour of an EU army etc, where will that lead ?
      I’m an ordinary guy ,with thoughts and opinions, I’m no expert but I read and try to keep up, I hate war and bullying behaviour which UK USA are famous for, if you look at most of the wars in my lifetime , I’m 63, it has been UK and USA at the heart of it, I’m sick of it.
      I long for a peaceful welcoming independent Scotland that doesn’t send troops to another country , EVER, in any circumstances.

    118. Ghillie says:

      What a guddle.

      Probably the clearest representation of brexit so far.

      Cactus, I think I see a Saltire in the middle of it…

      Breeks @ 10.00am You win 🙂

    119. Terence callachan says:

      The pnr…
      hello…narrow mindedness is often accompanied by threatening and abusive behaviour and language, it’s not necessary.
      You can disagree with someone politely or you can swear at them and ridicule them and insult them.
      The former encourages more discussion.
      The latter stops it in its tracks
      You can do better if you try.

    120. Gary45% says:

      A Wee O/T
      Anyone else noticed “MEGA” graffiti appearing on buildings? I have noticed a few in the highlands, lets hope its not Make England Great Again, wouldn’t surprise me with the wee britnats.

      Cactus@7.08
      You tube Shittyflutes Christmas songs, it will make you laugh.

    121. Cactus says:

      Hey howdy hey Ghillie, aye can see it 2 now.

      Hopefully others do too xx.

      “What time is Love?”

      Saltire.

    122. Chang Sha says:

      O/T – Apologies if this has been posted already – but it may be of interest

      Fintan O’Toole: The 1918 election was an amazing moment for Ireland:

      https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/fintan-o-toole-the-1918-election-was-an-amazing-moment-for-ireland-1.3719853

    123. Bobp says:

      Abulhaq 6.55 pm.Thank you for an honest reply.

    124. Cactus says:

      Evening Gary45% howde ye do, thx for your recommendation but ahm on my moby ra now with limited allowance, need to upgrade.

      Mibees some groovy Winger could post up your suggestion for now and laters.

      Working week commencing 10/12/18 is gonna be awesome!

      Tune in here.

    125. yesindyref2 says:

      And on the odd chance anyone’s wondering why I’m bothering with this, apart from a debate with someone who thinks the ECJ AG’s opinion is wrong, it’s this.

      I don’t think the EU is a signator to the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, but both those papers make it clear the CJEU / ECJ do pay attention to it – even though not signed up to it.

      I’ve also in my long history of rambling bye-ways, noticed courts paying attention to Conventions even if the parties aren’t signed up to them, for the reason they make sense I guess.

      That Vienna Convention isn’t retrospective, so any Treaty before 1969 doesn’t come under its auspice. The Treaty of Union was back in 1706, but it’s possible any court action could similarly, use the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties as a guideline.

      I got there in the end 🙂

    126. Thepnr says:

      @Terence callachan

      You accuse me of “narrow mindedness” hahaha. You are a proven liar that refuses to believe the proof when it is offered instead carrying on with your arguments that have already been proven to be false.

      You are a shallow minded bigot with an anti-English agenda that does not sit well with me nor the majority that are in the Yes movement as again proven by the Wings article the other day proving just who’s side the bigots are on and it’s not The Yes side.

      We do have them though and YOU are proof of the pudding and it’s you that is in the wrong. Get a fucking grip!

    127. Cactus says:

      Everything changes at and from midnight.

    128. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 8 December, 2018 at 11:31 am:

      ” … If UK Parliament confirms any flavour of “Brexit”, Indyref MUST be announced.”

      Weel! Yon’s Nivola Sturgeon telt then.

      Aye!
      Richt!

    129. call me dave says:

      @Chang Sha

      Thanks for that bit of Irish history. 🙂

    130. galamcennalath says:

      Chang Sha says:

      Fintan O’Toole: The 1918 election was an amazing moment for Ireland

      From the article … “Sinn Féin benefited hugely from the Westminster first-past-the-post electoral system “

      Something to bear in mind about Ireland, as it moved towards dominion status as the Free State, was that independence was not backed by an overwhelming majority. Just a modest majority.

      In the 1918 GE Sinn Féin got 48% of votes cast. Additionally, they were unopposed in many constituencies. So it’s impossible to give an exact level of support. I’ve seen percentage estimates of mid 50s.

      Everything in 1918 was based of seats, of course, and they won almost three quarters of those.

      I am wary of parallels between Ireland 100years ago and Scotland now. However, modest backing for independence in 1918 was enough to move forward without question. And, support was measured in WM seats taken. Worth bearing in mind.

    131. TheBuchanLoony says:

      Blair Paterson
      In the UK Scotland does not have a veto. An independent Scotland in the EU would have a veto. In Belgium even the regions have a veto…in October 2016…
      “Walloon parliament rejects CETA deal…Under Belgian laws, all five regional governments must approve the trade deals before the federal government can give consent. The Walloon parliament Friday voted by a large majority to reject the CETA deal, adding to the threat that the EU’s landmark agreement with Canada will be killed and undermining Brussels’ ability to steer the world’s biggest trade bloc.
      Lawmakers who represent Belgium’s French-speaking community of Wallonia voted by 46-16 in favor of action that would prevent Belgium’s federal government from having full powers to sign the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement.
      The vote took place two days after another regional assembly, the Federation of Wallonia-Brussels parliament voted to shoot down CETA in part because of worries that the deal could allow multinationals to sue governments.
      Under Belgian laws, all five regional governments must approve trade deals like CETA before the federal government can give consent.”
      When independent we could be like Belgium if we wish and even regions of Scotland could have a veto…I wonder if the fishermen of Peterhead and Fraserburgh would like their own veto on the CFP just like Wallonia?

    132. Bobp says:

      K1 5.07pm. “” but because it is simply unfair” Exactly! Nobody wants any english people living in Scotland ‘disenfranchised’. Vote in any elections etc. Just not in a Scottish independence referendum unless resident for at least 5 yrs. You or your pals in here dont like that fine. That does’snt make me a bigot only a realist.

    133. Tinto Chiel says:

      Another night of desperation as 77 Brigaders are reduced to talking to each other.

      Thepnr has always been one of the most inclusive and democratic of posters on Wings, opposed even to a simple WM majority of SNP seats rather than 50+% as a determinant of independence.

      The impostors on here dangling synthetic anti-English bait really should give up ‘cos they just won’t get a bite.

      Potentially a week of legal and constitutional Armageddon for Tories and WM. Not a popcorn fan but chocolate-coated cranberries can hit the spot (and the hips, dagnabbit).

    134. Cactus says:

      “Are ye all ‘ready’ for Brexmas…”

    135. Thepnr says:

      One of Govan and Drumchapel’s finest writers didn’t mind a sweary word or two when describing what he thought. It even won him a Booker Prize.

      Thing is see, lots of Scots speak exactly like that and in many circumstances there are is better way other than to say it like it is.

      The window. Sammy opened it. He breathed deep. Wind and pelting rain. No the best of times to hit the road. Ye blunder on but ye blunder on. That’s what you do. What else is there man know what I’m talking about what else is there? fuck the suicide rates and statistics, Sammy was never a huffy bastard, that’s one thing. Know what he felt like? A can of fucking superlager. Aye no danger. He had a drouth. a drouth. Know what that means it means he’s fucking thirsty. Fuck yer coffee and fuck yer tea and fuck yer fucking milk if yer fucking lucky enough to fucking have fucking any of the fucking stuff man know what I’m saying. Plus nay tobacco.

      Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    136. Bobp says:

      I now realise who the trolls are on this site. Speak out against FPTP, postal voting, holiday home owners. Thats ok. Even the word incomers/unionist is ok. But mention the E word and residency limits and your a troll and a racist, or a blood and soil nationalist Now at least we know why the pretendy scots patriots on this site want to retain the status quo.Indy ref2 same as Indyref1.

    137. Cactus says:

      🙂 Thepnr

      Quality.

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      @Bobp
      The thing is your comment at 8.08 pm marks YOU as a troll.

      And yet your 7.45 post was more reasonable, wanting a residency requirement, whether 1 year, 2 years or 5, is quite a snesible idea, as long as it’s regardless of nationality, which is what that post seemed to accept.

    139. Cactus says:

      Puta!

    140. Cactus says:

      Welcome to the end of the calm before the storm…

    141. Cactus says:

      We will soon be outwith the eye of their UK storm.

      Mon the Blue Bonnets!

      Primer.

      Aye.

    142. Bobp says:

      Yesindyref2. How does my comment at 8.08 make me a troll ffs. Ive always advocated a residency limit for other uk nationals.EU nationals have no mother country to pull on their heart strings and place them in a dilema ,against, other than their rights to live here. So they are a given guaranteed indy vote. Jeezus i’m giving up.

    143. K1 says:

      TCallaghan…we’ve been dealing with Paterson’s opinion since 2014 on here…we had the debates, for hours and hours and days and days on end. He would not take anything on.

      He has literally said the exact verbatim splurge over and over again on here for over 4 years…you Johny come lately haven’t read these threads for that long clearly to see that we have all attempted many many hours of ‘debate’. People like you don’t debate, you make false allegations of ‘bullying’…when you have absolutely no idea how many times we have gone over this on here.

      I’ll say it again for people like you who simply do not get it…it’s not a matter of ‘opinion’, there will be no removing of English voters from our constitutional referenda. It doesn’t matter how many times you dress this up as a ‘debating’ point, it’s not up for debate.

      You and your ilk will never get your way on this and I could give one flying fuck what you think about this and how much time you are committing to spewing the same garbage day in and day out, it amounts to disenfranchising a sections (any section) of our population to achieve a ‘desired outcome’.

      What precedent would that set up? Where would it stop? Who’s next?

      You sir are a fool and are out to deceive others with your rhetoric on this matter, you are treating those who object and have done eloquently on here a thousand times before your little name arrived on our screens, as if we have just arrived en masse to ‘bully’ your ilk.

      No we haven’t, we have made the salient points, we have provided links that prove the lie of ‘numbers’ in your case regarding the voters in this group you want banned. We have explained and exposed the express/daily mail/telegraph lies a thousand times to those who come on here blustering about the EU and how they are out to get us etc etc.

      You are witnessing the ‘short hand’ version, because some of us spent days going over this with people just like you…to no avail, because you are not here to debate, you are here to tell us how wrong we and to make out those of us who have posted for years are suddenly all ‘trolls’.

      It’s fucking laughable, because you don’t have an answer to the debating points that have been raised, you just attack those who actually engage with you cause they disagree vehemently with the same tired old tropes masquerading as worthy points of debate?

      The Scottish government will never change the franchise to allow for your take on this, they will never ever ever ever ever go along with what you advocate. That is a fact. It’s not bullying, it’s not getting at ‘you’. By all means have your stupid opinions, by all means make an absolute arse of yourself on here.

      But don’t expect us to just sit back and watch your huffy little tactics of attempting to make out it is we who largely agree with our elected government on these matters, that are in the ‘wrong’ on this one.

    144. David P says:

      As complete a demolition job as you’ll ever read… Enjoy!

      http://politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/12/07/week-in-review-all-may-s-faults-come-home-to-roost

    145. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Aye aye, I think JSW who might be Bankster is back on The National forum.

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      @Bobp
      Because of this comment “Now at least we know why the pretendy scots patriots on this site want to retain the status quo.Indy ref2 same as Indyref1.“.

      Try to not be so reactive – keep the heid!

    147. Robert Peffers says:

      @Blair Paterson says: 8 December, 2018 at 4:29 pm:

      ” … I would like to say why is it all wrong for England to set our laws Etc.,but alright for the e.u.to do so I,mean getting rid of 1 master to then get 27 other ones is not independence”

      Well now that you have exposed the fact that you don’t know anything about the EU can we expect you to be quiet now?

      There is an old saying that it is best to keep quiet when people believe you to be an idiot than to speak out and prove them right.

      You obviously have no idea of how the EU and UK are very different in the way they work.

      Ignorance, so they say, is bliss.

    148. Cactus says:

      Planet Rock, dat was some song dare, never heard Jim Jones n co before, a very catchy swelling leccy guitar riff like.

      Neil Y was on now there…

      One singer one song.

      She bangs a drum.

      Learny

    149. Bobp says:

      K1 8.34 for Scotlands sake i hope to god you are right.but the next indyref will prove who was right,and who was wrong. But Scotland wont forgive or forget those who would sell us out in the next referendum.

    150. yesindyref2 says:

      Or should I say, keep the fucking heid 🙂 😎

    151. Bobp says:

      Ps. We wont vote liebor.lol

    152. sandy says:

      Blair Patterson’s ideology is as disjointed as his punctuation, a garbled mess.

    153. yesindyref2 says:

      Regarding residence. If someone can hop off a plane from outer martonia, flick along to the council, register to vote, and vote in a referendum the same day, I doubt there’d be anyone n the whole of Scotland who would support such stupidity of the franchise. Same if it took even 2 weeks to do that. So acceptable length of residency is just a question of “how long”.

      Anyway, no point in discussing this, there was a consulation in 2017 and the decisions still aren’t out as the results are only just out (October), the next consultation is unlikely to be before 2022 at the very earliers – these things cost money, and money means nurses on the street or in the classroom 🙂

    154. uno mas says:

      I don´t know about stockpiling food and medicines but personally
      i´m getting myself up the Barras tomorrow and buy up all the giletes juanes I can lay my hands on.

      Could be a bit of a run on those in the not too distant future.

    155. yesindyref2 says:

      “liebor”

      LOL

    156. Thepnr says:

      @uno mas

      Sounds sensible, worth checking if bog roll is on special offer too.

    157. Bobp says:

      Indyref2. Common sense still has to prevail surely. We cannot stack the dice against ourselves.

    158. Cactus says:

      Evening yesindyref2, just thought I’d say cheers.

      Tonight should be fun! 🙂

      Almost the watershed.

      2 posts to go WOS.

    159. Bobp says:

      Uno mas 8.51pm. Glad no one knows my address. I’ve already stockpiled jim beam £16 and JD a litre. Along with paracetamol, dried pasta and rice for brexit.lol.

    160. Cactus says:

      It’s after nine now…

      Taps aff everybuddy!

      Do it Scotland.

      Do it.

    161. Bobp says:

      I’m aff tae dae it noo cactus. Talk tae yae in the morening.

    162. yesindyref2 says:

      Good grief, what’s the world coming to.

      I’m even watching a bit of “Celebrity” 🙁

      Ouch, my brian hurts.

    163. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 8 December, 2018 at 5:43 pm:

      ” … I’m on the side of the ordinary sovereign people of Scotland. That’s why I support independence for Scotland.
      why? I believe that’s the best choice for the ordinary people of Scotland.”

      Then, Colin, why is it that you constantly attempt to belittle the FM, SG and SNP who are the only ones that can gain that independence you claim to espouse?

    164. Kenno says:

      Wings should be an open Forum,,,not one with strict guidelines that says thou shalt not deviate.

      If England has had their boot on our neck for over 300 years, then in the dying days of this Union it is only natural for Scots to lash out at our Colonial Masters.

      Too many om here “play to the crowd”,,,it looks pathetic.

      Freedom of speech is essential.

      Because if we reject freedom of speech then we are no better than the Tory bastards who through out journalists from the National at a recent Tory press conference.

    165. Terence callachan says:

      To peffers…
      Who are you…to say to anyone commenting on here…be quiet ?
      Bluster….
      Anyone on here can say what they want to say …it’s not your call wee man ..

    166. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan @6.48pm

      I have no problem with someone saying they are not a supporter of the EU. That is a reasonable position to hold. If somone says they base that position on a statement of facts that are just plain made up rubbish then that means they are talking a lot of mince. Got it.

      Why are they talking mince – ignorant of the facts or deliberately posting misleading information.

      For someone to complain about intemperate words to start it of by saying bollocks to you kinda undermines your position.

      In summary it is you who need to look in the mirror and say Terence you need to get a grip and a really strong grip at that.

    167. Kenno says:

      It should of course be, threw out…

    168. Cactus says:

      Cheers tae ye Bobp, ahm jist about tae head back out now, somewhere in Scotland, Glasgow.

      Saturday night Scotland!

      Confidence rising i.

      Bur…

    169. Terence callachan says:

      The pnr…
      Swearing, foul language,
      Here is some advice
      People don’t see it as smart, hip, cool,
      It makes you look daft,
      People think you just can’t find a better word and that why every second word is “F” this ” F” that
      Really , give yourself some credit, speak properly with respect
      You will be taken more seriously
      You do want people to listen to what you say don’t you ?
      You do actually have some great points of view in my humble opinion but insulting people is not favourable

    170. Dr Jim says:

      It’s amazing what you find out when you’re browsing the Interweb like did you know that most of the world’s toothpaste is made NOT in the UK but all comes through the European Union, or Toilet paper while wrapped around the cardboard right here in lil old UK again comes from everywhere else

      So Brexit looks like good business for Dentists and Proctologists

      Wait till folk realise exactly what’s going to be part of the shortages

      Back to salt and dock leaves again….Oooh salt? forgot about that

    171. Kenno says:

      Too many post on here complaining of what other contributors have posted,instead of posting information on how to defeat our true enemy,,,the English Establishment.

    172. Terence callachan says:

      To bobp…..
      I reckon you are the most reasonable contributor on this site today….well done man …

    173. Kenno says:

      The priority must be enlightening our fellow Scots and whoever else has a vote in IndyRef2 .

      Not trying to close down the opinions of others.

    174. cynicalHighlander says:

      The biography of the UK PM makes an interesting read .

      https://theswamp.media/theresa-may-s-father

    175. Terence callachan says:

      To keno…
      I agree with you …to a point…
      The problem is there are a few on here that think they run it, they are on every day,pally , and group together to try and shut people down,
      I aggravate them…..I’m not for shutting down….
      We are all after Scottish independence so we should all keep it calm, if someone says something you don’t agree with ,discuss, contribute, but don’t insult and try and rid them , they are aiming for what you are aiming for, so what if they want to do it a different way or have hopes and dreams of the future that don’t match yours
      Don’t chuck the baby out with the bath water….

    176. Terence callachan says:

      To cubby….
      Hello
      Careful what you represent as fact
      Your facts might not be facts to others,interpretation of facts is so difficult that lawyers discuss it day in day out.
      Assuming that your facts are the be all and end all is folly, ……but you know that…..right ?

    177. call me dave says:

      Déjà vu all over and over again on here sometimes. 🙂

      @Dr Jim

      What?

      Salt that was the (last) thing on my mind.
      Tell me more about salt and..(docken leaves which I understand).

      Were the two connected in ablutions?

    178. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Kenno at 9:34 pm.

      You typed,
      “Too many post on here complaining of what other contributors have posted,instead of posting information on how to defeat our true enemy,,,the English Establishment.”

      Well, apart from me using the term “British Establishment” below, your comment was strangely coincidental with something I posted on my Facebook page an hour or so ago. I paste it here…
      ———————————————–

      Once you get your head round this, you have a better understanding of how politics work in the UK.

      Most people think there is a handful of “big” political parties, like the Tories, Labour, Lib-Dems and so on. This is where the actual facts are hidden, by something (the three party system) that we plebs can take on board and understand.

      The truth is that the UK is run by the “British Establishment” for its own benefit – not for the benefit of the people of the UK. The British Establishment wields its power through its political wing, known as the British Unionist Movement (BUM).

      This BUM has two components; the left cheek is represented by the Labour Party and the right cheek is represented by the Tories. The Lib-Dems are the useless dangleberry, sitting between the other two cheeks.

      Once you get your head round that, you can understand why the left cheek abstained on the proposals for ‘welfare reform’ put forward by the right cheek. The reforms removed wealth from the plebs and transferred it to the British Establishment. The dangle berry has to go with whatever makes it feel most comfortable.

      So, when you vote for any of those three parties, you are voting for the BUM, whose job is to preserve the authority of the British Establishment.

      When you vote for a different party, like the Greens or the SNP or the Monster Raving Loonies, or whatever, the BUM starts quivering, because that’s not how things are supposed to be. So, to upset the BUM, you now know how to vote in any future election!

    179. call me dave says:

      Too the tune of ‘an English country garden.

      What do you do if you want to have a poo
      In an English country ga-ar-den?
      Pick a dock leaf and wipe your underneath
      In an English country ga-ar-den…

      No salt mentioned.

    180. Terence callachan says:

      To sandy….
      Punctuation is unacceptable eh ?
      Butmfould and abusive language. . ..? What abou that ? Isn’t it more important ?
      Who cares about pattersons punctuation,I’m sure if yours or mine was checked a few faults would be found right?
      Patterson has his views, he is as entitled to make them known on here as you me or anyone else you don’t have to agree with them but he has the right to say them without insults foul language and bullying abuse.
      I will challenge the bullies every time, free speech is essential
      A few on here are pally and think they’ve got it all sewn up, tough, they aint, I might not agree with a particular comment but I will definitely support the right to make it.
      It is in our interest to hear the comments we disagree with, it broadens our minds and enlightens us as to what others are thinking, it’s the touchpaper for progress.
      Roll on Scottish independence
      Roll on the first general election in Scotland for an independent Scottish government

    181. Rock says:

      Golfnut says:
      8 December, 2018 at 4:38 pm

      “I can’t be absolutely certain, but I suggest every law introduced into Scots law and has benefited the People of Scotland has come from the EU. Can’t think of any originating in Westminster that can make that claim.”

      The “sovereign” “plebs” of Scotland were given the right to vote by Westminster.

      How a “pleb” can be “sovereign” without having the right to vote, only God and Robert Peffers know.

    182. ronnie anderson says:

      K1 Your to courteous in your comments to Callahan ( whits happened tae the Auld K1 ) but your correct they Trolls come on WoS mouthing their Yes supporters & think they can take us on with their nonsense comments & the many fake names ( bring back the auld K1 ) & give them laldy .

    183. Bobp says:

      Cactus 9.04pm. Cactus im back, the wife widnae let me dae it.

    184. Terence callachan says:

      We…supporters of Scottish independence ….ARE all in this together…
      We all know we have to do this
      This IS the time

      If you disagree with someone
      And you cannot debate politely and honourably
      Just say ” I don’t agree” or say nothing

      We don’t need the swearing abuse ,bullying ,intimidation , ganging up on individuals, that’s all weak and counteractive behaviour….
      Positive encouragement and reasonable discussion is what we should be about
      Ever wondered why fewer and fewer people post ?
      Ever wondered why some people post thirty forty messages a day ?
      We don’t really benefit from thirty forty posts from the same person
      We will get a better idea of what we are up against by encouraging more people to comment not fewer!!

    185. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Also, picked this up from my FaceBook news feed…

      “The break-up of Britain is not something that may or may not happen as the result of a second referendum, but is already upon us. The confrontation between English and Scottish nationalism is not going to moderate or evaporate. The one certainty is that “The Scottish Question” and Brexit have come together to destabilise Britain for years to come.”

      But this earlier comment in the article rang bells with me:-

      “Strident assertions by Ulster Protestants about their “Britishness” sounded foreign and rather embarrassing to people in the rest of the UK.”

      I remember being at a party in a house, right on the seafront in Broughty Ferry back in the mid-80s. We were all quaffing and blethering, when I detected an Irish accent in a group of half a dozen or so, adjacent to us.

      Having worked with a 3 parts Irish/2 parts Scottish showband during my DJ residency in The Palais in Dundee in the early 70s (and being told I could do a great Dundalk accent!), I was interested in where he came from.

      During a lull in their conversation, I asked the guy, “What part of Ireland are you from?”
      His reply? “OI’M NOT OIRISH – OI’M BRUHTISH!”

      Well, within 30 seconds, that guy was left standing on his own, as his ‘colleagues’ removed themselves elsewhere.

      Kinda sums up the situation in Northern Ireland, iye?

      Quotes are from:-
      https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-scottish-referendum-english-nationalism-damaged-union-for-good-a7635796.html

    186. Cactus says:

      Hey Scotland, sea by this time next week we’ll all be laughing our heads off… don’t cha think those whom that they call perceived trolls 😉

      Somebuddy just turned da lights on!

    187. Terence callachan says:

      Hey Ronnie Anderson…..
      Hello..

      No fake name here , my name is Terence callachan
      Willing to discuss
      Scottish independence is what we all want
      But we don’t all agree on the small print

    188. Cactus says:

      Welcome back to Wings Bobp…

      How’s yer craic? all G 🙂

      Love tae yer Lovely.

    189. McDuff says:

      Kenno
      Terence Callachan

      I agree entirely.
      There are regular posters on here who believe this site belongs exclusively to them and its only their opinion that counts.

    190. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Bobp @ 20:08,

      The other day I challenged you to back up one of your off-the-wall assertions with facts, a challenge which you ducked. Just as predicted.

      Nobody can object to a presentation of “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” (in the well-tested formulation), but as has also been well said, one is entitled to one’s own opinions – and we have a rich variety of those on here – but one is not entitled to one’s own facts.

      It is the spreading of “alt-facts” and other such distortions, frequently accompanied by the scapegoating of minority groups and other such vile hate-mongering, to which we object.

      And rightly so.

    191. Rock says:

      Bobp says:
      8 December, 2018 at 8:42 pm

      “but the next indyref will prove who was right,and who was wrong.”

      We will know by the end of March 2019 who was right and who was wrong.

      I say again with 100% confidence that Westminster is not going to grant a Section 30 order for a legally binding independence referendum before 2640 AD.

      I can again say with 100% confidence that Establishment lawyer Nicola will not dare call an independence referendum without a Section 30 order.

      It was the ultimate in stupidity and gutlessness for Nicola to stand “shoulder to shoulder” with “Tory scum” Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.

      She had no reason to open her mouth – she should have dismissed it as a reserved matter. That would have shut up the unionists. Instead she is now hostage to what she said.

      Nicola has fully backed the dishonest unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond.

      The British Establishment has ZERO fear of Nicola but it is terrified of Alex Salmond.

    192. yesindyref2 says:

      Scottish independence is what we all want

      Including many “English” residents and other “foreigners”.

    193. Cactus says:

      Yet there is definitely a mixture…

      Nae doubt like now aye.

      Whom be like us?

    194. Bobp says:

      TC 9.37pm cheers terence, I might live in dorset but my (English wife who loves Scotland) and myself travel back home 4/5 times a year visiting family ( try to coincide with indy marches). Obviously i do get frustrated at times, but i know we are all on the same road and want Scottish independence.

    195. Rock says:

      McDuff says:
      8 December, 2018 at 10:17 pm

      “There are regular posters on here who believe this site belongs exclusively to them and its only their opinion that counts.”

      Some of us post here by the grace of the owner of this site.

      Certain more esteemed posters believe they have a God given right to post here and to use the “t” word against anyone who has a different opinion to theirs.

    196. Rock says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      8 December, 2018 at 10:19 pm

      ““Scottish independence is what we all want”

      Including many “English” residents and other “foreigners”.”

      The vast majority of the English settlers voted No at the last referendum.

      You would me more accurate saying “Including SOME “English” residents”

    197. sandy says:

      Terrence Callaghan.

      Re Paterson’s diatribes:-
      It’s difficult enough to understand the context of his argument & the punctuation accentuates this.

    198. Bobp says:

      Rjs 10.17pm . Remind me avain, what was the ‘off the was wall assertion you ‘challenged me to?.

    199. Cactus says:

      Yes means Yes, iScotland Love.

    200. Bobp says:

      Of the wall assertion.?

    201. Rock says:

      For the record, I have nothing against English settlers in Scotland and find it quite natural that the vast majority of them would prefer Scotland to remain “in union with England”.

      But it is the ultimate in stupidity to give English settlers the right to vote in a referendum on Scottish independence from England.

      Everywhere else in the world, they were unceremoniously kicked out.

      But the most stupid people on earth are happy to let them have a say on whether their country should be their colony or not.

      I don’t give a damn if any poster calls me racist.

    202. Terence callachan says:

      Hi ..brian doonthetoon
      How’s it goin…

      The palais…those were the days, and Samantha’s …

      I lived in Northern Ireland during the troubles, late sixties ,Lisburn just outside Belfast ,three years, tar and feather car bomb, pub bomb , infact everything was blown up , I have my mums ornaments that she bought in the after bomb sales ,things that were blackened and sold in the sale.
      I went to school on school bus with a soldier in the front with a SMG, lisnegarvy school.
      I was a milk boy delivering to the army camps they used car wing mirrors on the end of a broom stick to check for bombs under the milk float and other vehicles entering the camp, it was normal life ,everyone was affected ,H Block , Bobby sands, Bernadette devlin, my dad was royal signals up and down to the so called sangars Londonderry and shankhill road they often laid bombs to explode under the land rovers ,saracens and pigs.
      We don’t want those times to return

    203. Terence callachan says:

      Robert Sutherland…
      Hello

      And you will decide what the truth is . Yeah ?

    204. jfngw says:

      Brexit at least provides some amusement, listening to the Brit Nats complaining (some employed by the BBC) that the EU is holding them to ransom (expecting them to obey the club rules). These are the self same people that used currency, trade and pension threats in 2014 against Scotland.

    205. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Rock @ 22:24,

      All of us post here by the grace of the owner of this site.

      There, sorted.

      With your faux humility you contrive to imply you are somehow privileged, you tosser.

      The empty barrel made manifest.

    206. Terence callachan says:

      Sandy….
      Hello

      It’s not….

    207. Rock says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      8 December, 2018 at 10:17 pm

      “Bobp @ 20:08,

      The other day I challenged you to back up one of your off-the-wall assertions with facts, a challenge which you ducked. Just as predicted.”

      The other day I challenged Robert J. Sutherland but he ducked. Just as predicted:

      Robert J. Sutherland (31 October – “Now featuring Scotland”):

      “the day before we get our independence, you’ll still be whinging on about your “622 years”,”

      Rock (31 October – “Now featuring Scotland”):

      “Give a date before 622 years when you think the next independence referendum will be held.

      That is before 2640 AD.”

      I predict that Robert J. Sutherland will duck again.

    208. Terence callachan says:

      Robert Sutherland……

      Ahhh you just can’t help it….insult insult insult rather than discuss
      It makes you look daft….I’m sure you are not

      Rock has his views….know what ? He’s allowed them , he’s allowed to voice them on here too
      You can’t stop him doing so
      Try discussion
      If that fails
      Don’t say anything ,insults don’t change his mind or anyone else’s
      Use your words ,your energy better

    209. Bobp says:

      Rjs 10.17pm. Think i know what your assertion barb at me meant. Dont have the links , but i’m sure if you google. Scottish referendum english influence, you’ll get all the “assertion” you need .

    210. Cactus says:

      *** THIS IS AN INTERMISSION ***

    211. Rock says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      8 December, 2018 at 10:37 pm

      “Rock @ 22:24,

      All of us post here by the grace of the owner of this site.”

      No, the usual suspects believe they have a God given right to post here and to use the “t” word against anyone who has a different opinion to theirs, and don’t give a damn about the wishes of the owner of this site:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says: (By hook or by Cook)
      25 January, 2018 at 12:03 pm

      “I’m getting really increasingly tired of this.

      IF YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE TROLLING, IGNORE THEM. NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, GETS RID OF TROLLS FASTER THAN FAILING TO HAVE PEOPLE BITE.

      Not everyone who disagrees with you on something is a troll or an MI5 agent. I’m going to start shutting threads down without warning if people keep getting into this bollocks.”

      yesindyref2 says:
      8 December, 2018 at 8:12 pm

      “@Bobp
      The thing is your comment at 8.08 pm marks YOU as a troll.”

    212. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan @9.47pm.

      I can recognise a flat earther and that’s a fact.

    213. Kenno says:

      EU Remainers are screaming out for a second Brexit vote, yet whenever IndyRef2 is mentioned they have the utter temerity to tell us that we had our vote in 2014,,,get over it Scotland,, you are not getting another vote.

      Enough to drive ye tae drink.

      The hypocrisy of the English is breathtaking.

    214. cynicalHighlander says:

      The racist bogots are bombarding this site with their zenophobic coments.

    215. Cactus says:

      Now it’s time fur “yer maws yer maw”

      What is ur understanding of.

      Aye know, do U?

      Radio says, “SO this is Christmas and what have ye done…”

      Ahhhhh ha ha ha, take it puta.

      Should aye goto ra casino, deal or no deal.

      When is the time like?

    216. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Terence callachan @ 22:36,

      When somebody makes a claim that they can’t prove, the whole wide world can see who the scam merchant is. People don’t need any telling, they just have to have their eyes wide open and their little grey cells functioning.

      As has rightly been said of Trump, that master of the disreputable trade, but applies equally well to lesser specimens of the species, if you don’t realise he is a con-man, you are his mark.

      Well, we here ain’t marks, bud. Much though the likes of your miserable wee handful of pitchfork-wavers might wish it.

    217. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      8 December, 2018 at 8:40 pm

      “Well now that you have exposed the fact that you don’t know anything about the EU can we expect you to be quiet now?”

      Didn’t you kill the EU some time back? What is there to know about the dead EU?

      Robert Peffers says:
      25 March, 2018 at 1:22 pm (The winds of change):

      “If Germany has thrown in its lot with Spain they are, between them, signing the death warrant of the European Union and killing it off.”

      “RIP the European Union, for except for now lying down, you are now declaring yourself dead.”

    218. Cactus says:

      To share…

      Aye’ve promised myself aye won’t say a sweary word until midnight, that’s my feel, was gonna say something else but until then.

      Funny laughs (or not)

      Almost 11.

    219. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan@9.59pm

      Do you think it is interesting to hear Rockshits comments. Are they of value? Does it broaden your mind and enlighten you?

    220. Cubby says:

      The Britnats are getting worried very very worried. More and more phoney independence supporters posting on Wings. Britnats just can’t help giving themselves away. It always seeps out no matter how much training they have had.

    221. Cactus says:

      Ahm surrounded by something right now…

      Ra energy is alive!

    222. Cactus says:

      One just did the the BIGGEST pee pee of mons life…

      Two minutes et seventeen seconds like.

      Aye timed it to a T.

    223. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Peffers asked:

      Robert, it’s up to us, the sovereign people of Scotland to make sure the Scot Govt / Scot Parliament and all politicians respect the electoral mandate of indyref if Scotland is being dragged out the EU.

      The time for devolution is over.

      The time Scotland’s independence has come.

    224. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I’m fine, Terence callachan, and a tad pro-active in my comments tonight, here and elsewhere, for “others”, y’ken “others” who don’t inhabit the Wings’ pages but stick to that FaceBook phenomenon.

      I don’t think they’re reading my input though. One can at least try; and I have been told I can be trying.

    225. Cactus says:

      This time by next year Scotland!!!

      We will be creating new.

      Be excitable Scotland.

      Taxi pour moi tae ra city, MAINTENANT!

    226. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      From Chang Sha’s referencing Fintan O’Toole’s piece (at 7.17 PM) this remakable and interesting piece of information

      In 1918 Ireland (bar a small area in the North) voted largely for Sinn Féinn and independence (over 65% of the vote)

      “The remnants of the socialist Citizen Army had been swept up into Sinn Féin – and Labour’s decision to stand aside and give Sinn Féin a clear run was a crucial contributor to its victory.”

      Is Labour in Scotland ever likely to do the same?
      Labour in Scotland – not the Tories – is the major impediment to independence

    227. Just been listening to Sarah Smith’s programme about ‘Borders’ … funny how it was a discussion about how Brexit would affect life in the borders between Scotland and England but it kept ending up being a discussion about Scottish Independence and how it would be bad for the border area.

      A hard border from Berwick to Carlisle would be terrible.
      Interestingly, she managed to get a Leave voting SNP supporter to pipe up about not wanting to be in any Union.

      People agreed that Scotland would be at a disadvantage to N. Ireland because of the Deal and also resented the way Scotland had been ignored.

      Not an entirely neutral programme but possibly not too biased – after all it is a Tory area.

      Not much support for Michael Gove’s plan to make payments for environmental custodianship whilst not making payments for food production.

    228. Dr Jim says:

      @call me dave

      The salt’s for your teeth Dave, I was brought up poor never had toothpaste till I was about 10 years old

    229. Cactus says:

      Blazing Paddles!

      Scotland NOW knows its oars.

      SCREAM fur ur freedom.

      Make a sound.

      PULL!

    230. Dr Jim says:

      Apparently if BMW withdraws from the UK they only have to increase the price of every car they sell worldwide by 7Euros
      to make the same profit as they do now to make up the UK loss

      Kinda puts the big UK market bletherers into context

    231. Cactus says:

      Scream if ya wanna go faster Scotland.

      Gimme a call gorgeous.

      Tis a Bill Hicks rollercoaster ride…

      Pick up the FUN!

      X.

    232. Cactus says:

      Evenin Dr J, heading intae town.

      See yees innabit…

      To learn 42.

      Hehe 🙂

      17!

    233. Cactus says:

      Islands in their stream, that is what THEY are.

      We are Scotland.

      Reality check!

    234. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Cactus –

      Your mention of Bill Hicks made me remember another American great who totally changed my way of thinking via this one clip.

      George Carlin:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ

    235. Cactus says:

      A fine evening tae ye Brother B, Bill knows likel.

      Did ye ever cheque out Dwight Slade?

      Diggin the same tang.

      5 mins tae swear 🙂

      Tis a game.

    236. Cactus says:

      Twas the night before the verdict, when all thru the HoC, not a Tory was stirring, not even a louse…

      00.

    237. Cactus says:

      And fuck.

      Deep breathe, ah needed that fuck.

      Did you need that fuck.

      Many more fucks to come.

      Ahm gaun gambling eventually.

      Maybe.

      Three cheers for fuck!!!

      Fuck Fuck Fuck.

      Hooray!!!

      iScotland!!!

      Ahhh that’s better.

    238. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Cactus –

      Fare thee well on yer wanderings Big Yin!

      Please stay away from that casino – by the sounds of it they’ve marked your card!

      😉

    239. Norway,which is listed as the most Democratic country in the world,

      limits who can vote in her elections,

      `Only Norwegian citizens can vote in the Parliamentary elections, but foreigners who have lived in Norway for three years continuously can vote in the local elections.`

    240. mike cassidy says:

      Just realised.

      Cairns has put 2640 points in that Pollock painting.

    241. call me dave says:

      Grave uncertainty for the Nation says the PM and it could result in the UK not leaving the UK at all.

      Radio 5 Live reporting an interview which will be in the papers in the morning.

      PS:
      Salt in place of toothpaste… Aye? Jings…we chewed rhubarb 🙂

      Off to Radio 4 extra DAB… its ghost story time soon…

      Vincent Price Waah! 🙂 🙂

    242. Cactus says:

      Cheers Ian B, ken what yer saying… when yer winning it’s like whit’s yer name ye winner ye.

      Ahm back in the Catty.

      Come & join us!

    243. Cactus says:

      Fuck the British Nationalistic politicians!

      They know NOW.

    244. Cactus says:

      Make a noise!!!

      Take it.

    245. Cactus says:

      Here we are here and we find ourselves…

      We could have been born intae an internationally iScotland or any other beautiful place in this place.

      The People of Scotland…

      and enjoying it.

      That’s good.

      SO!

    246. Cactus says:

      Fucking Glasgow…

      Fuckin’ Scotland.

      Upper case.

      Always.

    247. Hamish100 says:

      oh dear. Folk on the ran dan.

      Sadly this blog is becoming boring rather than more interesting.

    248. Cactus says:

      Let’s go Hamish100…

      Second gear..

      3rd comin.

      FUCK is still an expressive and expensive noun.

      Whenst used in proper context.

      Choose yer verb.

      Marnin Rev.

    249. Cactus says:

      Who is on the breakfasts oor BnB’s aroon Scotland…

      Care for the People.

      Drink.

    250. Cactus says:

      Independent Love comin right up yer street.

      Love something…

      Music.

    251. Cactus says:

      What time is Love like…?

      Love time is 02:17.

      Europe kens.

      Learnage.

    252. Cactus says:

      Fuckin’ Scotland!

      Exit light, enter night take ma haun babe.

      All ra 2’s.

    253. Cactus says:

      Metallica calling…

      Just like the symphony of… Dave Mustain like…

      Nemesis baby.

      The D day of deconstruction is coming sooner than you think.

      Scotland will be cool.

      Cause we just are.

    254. Cactus says:

      Almost a full scoreboard fur me…

      Scotland callin’

      Who is up?

      Don’t be shy show us yer aye…

      Revvin cool.

    255. Cactus says:

      Haha hey you perceived trolls you have nae chance when ahm on it… whom is who, nice hat.

      Sixpence none the richer.

      You say.

    256. Cactus says:

      3% remaining to go…

      Night night smilers..

      Iyxiyxitxitsjtxjtxitdiyxktxitditditsitsitsutsjts o5sjgsitsitditditdkydkyxoyxkyxoyxoydiyd8yd8yd8yd8ydmydkyxkgxmgx.gxntwu5sutsjtant zjtzitsigzktzitzitay3jgsjtskyxkyx

      Tent

    257. Cactus says:

      Can anybuddy find me Somebuddy tae pump…

      2%.

    258. Cactus says:

      0% allegedly…

      LOVE LOVE.

      Night.

    259. Graeme says:

      @ Terence callachan

      There’s a lot you’ve posted on this site Terence I actually agree with to some extent but if you’re gonna come on here and defend someone for suggesting Scotland being a colonial region of England is somehow equitable to being a member state of the european union makes you as big a fuckwit as he is and if you don’t like my language too fucking bad

      Graeme

    260. K1 says:

      Och Ronnie…ahm saving ma laldy fur when it matters…y’know when they are defending pebble brain that there’s a waant wi them, no worth extending any polemical wrath fur sma fry… 😉

    261. K1 says:

      *waving at global branches of flat earthers everywhere*

      😉

    262. Kenno says:

      Too many STILL playing to the galleries,,,makes you look like a sad pathetic clown.

    263. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Between roughly 9pm on Saturday night and 3am on Sunday, approimately half of the posts on this thread were absolute pish from Cactus.

      I honestly reckon he must be the daft laddie of the 77th Brigade, charged with pissing-off the rest of us with his inane drivel.

      Somebody take his phone, tablet and computers off him -PLEASE.

    264. Robert Peffers says:

      @Scot Finlayson says: 9 December, 2018 at 12:26 am:

      … Norway,which is listed as the most Democratic country in the world,
      limits who can vote in her elections,
      `Only Norwegian citizens can vote in the Parliamentary elections, but foreigners who have lived in Norway for three years continuously can vote in the local elections.`”

      AND?

      In the first place the legal sovereignty of Norway differs from that of the Kingdom of Scotland. Are you advocating that Scotland should convert to the Norwegian legal system or are you attempting to say that Scotland’s legal system, that set Scottish legal sovereignty before 1320 is wrong?

      The independent Scottish legal system not only states that the people, and not either the monarch or the state, are legally sovereign but it also stipulates what constitutes, “The People of Scotland”.

      Here’s a wee hint for you – it isn’t based upon either ethnicity, race or religious beliefs.

      It would be against the laws of Scotland to disenfranchise people on the grounds of country of birth – is that clear enough for you?

      Scotland is not legally a racist kingdom/country.

      Anyone who is mainly resident in Scotland, is registered to vote in Scottish elections and pays their tax as a Scot is one of the people of Scotland. Get over your racism.

    265. Cactus says:

      Just recharging now…

      Awe Socrates dude, dinnae dinghy me, aye mean well, me 77 haha, now that is funny, you are cool dude, Love yer stuff!

      Hey Socrates, what’s weigh the ‘absolute pish’ like?

      There is something for everyone on Wings.

      Question me afore ye accuse me.

      There are ways n means.

      Easy laddie!

    266. Cactus says:

      Hey Nana, help me oot here, did aye do wrong?

      Ur links…

      😉

      Hehe all day long Socrates… watch Bill n Ted mon ami.

      The answers are there.

    267. Cactus says:

      Ye know it gets to that point where you say hey and fuck it, let’s get Scotland sorted, back tae normal Socrates.

      Cheers for your challenge mate.

      Aye fucking Love it! 🙂

      Endorphins!

    268. Cactus says:

      Did you all see the 3D thru picture Wingers of December ’18.

      Bus / coach / cliff / springboard.

      Peekaboo aye can see you SMcS.

      17 it is.

    269. Cactus says:

      That’s me restimulated for the morning and wayyyyy beyond…

      Cheers Socrates, keep posting.

      Ahm on the trigger now…

    270. wull2 says:

      Last nights bed thoughts.

      What if the EU says tomorrow, WM cant speak for the people of Scotland, therefore that part of the A50 letter is automatically reversed, the rest stands and once sent it cannot be reversed.

    271. Sinky says:

      Front page of Sunday Times new poll finds Scottish Independence better than Brexit biy covered over by perfume wrap a round advert.

    272. Cactus says:

      Good morning wull2 and Sinky, wishin’ yee’s well.

      Today is the holy sabbath.

      Praise be.

    273. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cactus , time for beddie bys- you lovely nutcase you!

      Picked up on the slave labour article , totally shocking . Was there not a ‘newspaper’ crusade to name and shame those employers who did not pay the minimum wage ?

      I look forward to a crusade by our ‘newspapers’ to expose the employers and government policies which allow for slave labour – I will no doubt wait a looong time.

    274. Cactus says:

      Socrates dude, ah didnae expect that frae you bud, we need to talk.

      Hey ghillie mwah xx.

      Anything goes NOW.

    275. Cactus says:

      Hey Dorothy, cool and you called it… thx and that’s all it takes to say.

      Laters y’all xx.

      2 to go.

    276. Ken500 says:

      Tory brains unwired. Tory/unionist DNA master plan get into power and make the biggest mess they can. A recurring nightmare. What an absolute shambles.

      Winter of discontent, illegal wars, banking fraud, tax evasion, sanctionig and starving people, supporting absolute monarchy and absolute despot monarchies. The sythophantic Westminster controlled Press lying all the time. On and in it goes.

      Scotland’s monies and resources illegally and secretly taken. Paying repayments
      on loans not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Paying more for Trident and Defence. Scotland can’t borrow to grow the economy. Tax evasion. UK Laws not enforced by HMRC. Oil sector highly taxed when prices were low. Losing 120,000 jobs. Fishing sector not run properly. Farming £Millions taken from CAP intended for Scotland. The illegal unionist coalitions. On and in it goes.

      They are warned and warned again not to do it, but on and on they go. May and the imbeciles.

      Independence can’t come soon enough.

    277. Golfnut says:

      I notice up thread some clowns assertion that Westminster gave us the vote. It didn’t, it took from the 1819 Peterloo massacre to 1918 and the fear of a million trained soldiers returning from the trenches to force, yes force Westminster to pass legislation on voting. Only fear of revolution made it happen.
      Westminster gives nothing, certainly not devolution, the EU forced that particular legislation, certainly not the NHS and social care and a population not fit for war in 1914 forced that legislation.

      There’s nothing benign or compassionate or democratic in the Westminster gene pool, you need look no furher than universal credit for proof of that.

    278. Cactus says:

      Infact no, the Scottish sun is shining thru my kitchen window and it’s fucking beautiful. 🙂

      Everything is changing.

    279. Shinty says:

      Cactus, I’ve never met you but for anyone to accuse you, of all people on here, of being part of the 77th brigade is indeed laughable.

    280. Cactus says:

      Fucking Farage is on the radio ra now, fucking LBC.

      Hands up if you are offended by moi?

      Take a democratic vote like.

      One will always push.

    281. Cactus says:

      Cheers Shinty, would Love to meet you. 🙂

      Let’s see how Scotland is this time next week…

      And let’s get rocked!

    282. Cactus says:

      Just because aye can nine seventeen.

      It is very important.

      Kind regards,
      Burp.

    283. Ghillie says:

      Sinky @ 7.28 am Yes! Isn’t that great! Onwards =)

      Hey there Cactus xxx

      New Panelbase poll shows a majority of Scots think Independence for Scotland would be better than staying in the UK after Brexit 🙂

    284. Ghillie says:

      Oops. Sinky @ 8.27 am

    285. ronnie anderson says:

      Socretes Macsporran As we’ve come to expect of Cactus at the weekend he’s oan the Swally but 77th brigade Nae Chancety , there’s nae Crown badges oan Cactus’s stetson be assured of that .

    286. Shinty says:

      Maybe the indy camp should start our own REAL fear stories.

      Vote NO means, no more free medical prescriptions
      Vote No means, no more free NHS
      Vote NO means, no more free bus passes for over 60’s
      Vote NO means, the worst pensions in the developed world.
      Vote NO means, no more free University education.
      Vote NO means, fracking under a house near you.
      Vote No means, GM foods and crops in abundance.
      Vote NO means, reduction in our high food standards.
      Vote No means, reduction in agricultural animal welfare.

      These are just a few of the realities of anyone thinking of Voting No in our next indyref.

    287. Dorothy Devine says:

      Shinty dead right!

    288. Hamish100 says:

      the National raising issue of bbc QT only inviting the SNP only 6 times. BBC SCOTLAND reviews the papers with David Clegg Dairy Record and Penny Taylor.

      unelected britnat Clegg has been on the radio more times than the snp on QT.

      state broadcaster at work

    289. Gerry says:

      @Shinty – 100% agree. When the date is announced we should embark on a “project reality” that will make project fear look like a bedtime story.

    290. Shinty says:

      Gerry ‘project reality’, I like that.

      Please everyone, feel free to add to the list. I’m going to make a BIG list tomorrow and make up a leaflet/poster.

    291. robertknight says:

      So, 53% think Scotland will be better off as an Independent EU member state, than remain in a UK, outside the EU, run by a bunch of right wing, xenophobic little-Englanders.

      But only 47% would vote for the former, and 53% for the latter!

      Scotland…

      Too wee? Nope!
      Too poor? Nope!
      Too stupid? Abso-bloody-lutely!

    292. Hamish100 says:

      Cactus

      FUCK is still an expressive and expensive noun.
      Whenst used in proper context.

      Yes, this may or not be be true. Could be a verb

      Unfortunately you repeatedly use it the context wrong .

      Do you believe your vernacular might encourage people onto WoS?

      I think not, which is a pity don’t you think as we approach a possible independence vote in 2019?

      Peace and Love.

    293. Proud Cybernat says:

      2 x carrot, 1 x stick.

      And we’ll win. No question.

    294. manandboy says:

      Scotland largely remains a colonial dog which has been well trained to walk at the heel of its Imperial Master. No lead required. The dog training is all that is needed.

      BritNat indoctrination – we’re up to our eyes in it.

    295. Ghillie says:

      Hamish 100 Peace and love to you too =)

      Cactus’s lovely heart and unsinkable belief in and love for the folk of Scotland and Indy Scotland WILL and does encourage folk onto WOS 🙂

      Different strokes for different folks =)

      (AND oor Cactus introduced a watershed for sweary words! Not sure I’ll remember that when my dander is next up!)

    296. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      If you have vouched for Cactus that’s good enough for me.

      Cactus, my good man, my apologies – I think all this waiting around or the starting gun to be fired is getting to me, and I am seeing conspiracies where none exist.

    297. galamcennalath says:

      Latest poll. 59% say Indy better than no deal Brexit.

      What that confirms to me is that there is a sizeable majority open to persuasion.

      That is against a background where there is very little pro Indy campaigning against a deluge of anti SG/SNP/Indy propaganda. Just wait until we get started!

    298. manandboy says:

      The ‘F’ word is like rust on a blog like this.

      It is unsightly, as well as weakening the standing and credibility of both the blog and the Independence movement.

      Its use never improves either explanation or information and is a barrier therefore to understanding.

      Bad enough when spoken, it is self-defeating in print.

      If Scotland can only express its desire for Independence through the use of the ‘F’ word, then it’s a sad day.

    299. @Robert Peffers,

      pish,

      so you are saying the Norwegian electoral system is fundamentally racist,

      and most other countries that (UK ,GE and Brexit, elections don`t allow EU citizens the vote)have qualifications on who can vote in their main elections are all racist,

      pish.

    300. Liz g says:

      Well done Cactus….
      You’ve drawn the fire AGAIN after quite a shitty day on Wings.
      Respect xx

    301. manandboy says:

      NI – Cash for Ash

      Tweet by Dr Duncan Morrow

      The final impression in RHI is of a culture of only telling the truth when caught. Worse it includes leaders, Ministers, SPADs, 2 parties and civil servants. The lack of honesty or shame on this watch has done deep damage to politics. Demoralising.

      https://t.co/WTYPdPBHS3

      https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/foster-accepts-some-of-her-sworn-rhi-evidence-may-have-been-wrong-1-8731804/amp?__twitter_impression=true

      Arlene Foster, playing with fire in get-rich-quick scam which has ignited a scandal.

    302. Lenny Hartley says:

      Socrates Having met Cactus i know he is a good loon, but sometimes Cactus Mate your postings do deflect from the jist of the thread. Gonna do them in O/T Cactus?
      Cheers Pal.

    303. remo says:

      @manandboy
      I believe there have been studies to show that people who swear do not have a limited vocabulary, are considered to be more trustworthy and honest and, wait for it, are more intelligent. I swear a lot.

    304. Liz g says:

      manandboy @ 10.18
      It’s life in the Union that causes it manandboy!
      In sure it will recalibrate once we # dissolve the Treaty, we will be all out of Fucks to give for Westminster’s antics!
      And working to be the happiest Country in the world list!

    305. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Come friendly bombs and fall on Kelty

    306. ronnie anderson says:

      Socretes MacSporran Knowing Cactus as many of us do he would readily except your apology , none of use are immune from getting confuddled re the Trolls/77th brigade , I myself through frustration of T Callahan giving succour to a well known Troll called him the same ( I apologise for that ) .

      As Matt Mc Ginn would say Cactus is Hermless ( git the guitar oot Cactus )

    307. Ghillie says:

      Hey there Liz G =)

      Cactus’s deluge of Cactusy stuff certainly did draw the fire!

      Brave lad. His hat will be properly peppered with buckshot! Including some friendly fire.

      The trolls are getting very very agitated and jickering amongst themselves frantically. Good sign =) but tiresome.

      Cactus’s INTERMISSION was most welcome. And effective.

      The day I stop using the word Fuck to express my depth of feeling, mostly horror, at all things unionist, is the day Scotland declares Independence 🙂

    308. TonyH says:

      Long time lurker, but have supported indy all my life. I recently came to the conclusion that just supporting wasn’t enough,so I joined the SNP. I don’t agree with all the policies but see it along with the wider Yes movement as the path to a better society. I put my trust 100% in the FM,who is in my eyes the outstanding politician on the UK stage by a distance.
      We can’t afford to lose again and feel a “sweetener ” to largely increase pensions to a level equivalent to other EU countries,could get the older voters onside as well as being an appropriate course to follow.
      In NS I trust.

    309. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Just watched Barmy Boris, the man who planted the lies about the NHS on the side of a bus, on Marr.

      My first thought was of Eric Morecambe and his great stock line: “This boy is a fool.”

      Mind you, if the case for Independence can have a better friend in Number Ten than the Maybot, it is probably Barmy Boris.

      He is the epitome of the Arrogant Englishman who completely believes in English exceptionalism. To use an old Scottish saying: “They’re awe oot o’ step but oor John Bull.”

    310. ronnie anderson says:

      remo Given that analogy ah must be ah fucking member of Mensa LoL

    311. Abulhaq says:

      @Manandboy
      The Fexpletive in common with the T for troll word is suggestive of frustration with counter arguments, never a good basis for serious discourse. A count to ten before commenting ought to fix it. Unfortunately, some people are just verbal bullies.

    312. Famous15 says:

      Gordon Brewer interviews who? Who but his pal Fudully Mundelly. Perhaps we are to be somatised. FGS this is our future. Wee McIver reckons Mundell has it right now!

      I want to comment with some gravitas but Mundell is just such a rat I cannot comment on him in a temperate manner. How do Unionists get to be such fools.

    313. ronnie anderson says:

      Socretes MacSporran There must be ah discount on haircuts this week Boris on Marr noo Fluffy oan Brewster , ah could give both ah good trim wie ah cut throat razor .

    314. Liz g says:

      Hi Ghillie @ 10.53
      Well said…. and he did it with style don’t ye think? LOL
      And yes if there’s one thing that draws it out of ye it’s Westminster.
      If we didn’t have a word “ like “ Fuck to describe them… we’d need to invent one…. LOL!!!

    315. Capella says:

      Cactus’ posts usually record his rake’s progress through the midnight streets of Glasgow, which can only annoy insomniacs.
      I thought his stetson was cute and not a sign he was the sheriff though he might have shot the sheriff (but not the deputy).

      Keep on posting Cactus, your brief love letters to Bonnie Scotland are welcome to some of us.

    316. Gerry says:

      Getting closer….

      “It’s hard to know whether to laugh or cry. These idiots are actually revelling in the idea that they’re characters in a fantasy world. Scotland, we don’t have to stay in Narnia with them – we can opt to stay in the real world with #independence” ~ Nicola Sturgeon, 10 minutes ago on twitter.

    317. Robert Peffers says:

      @Scot Finlayson says: 9 December, 2018 at 10:24 am:

      ” … pish

      Nut then you would say that, wouldn’t you?

      ” … so you are saying the Norwegian electoral system is fundamentally racist,”

      No. If I wants to say that then that is what I would have said/ However, I didn’t say that,

      ” … and most other countries that (UK ,GE and Brexit, elections don`t allow EU citizens the vote)have qualifications on who can vote in their main elections are all racist,
      pish.”

      Nope! I didn’t say that either. Now while you may be able to read the words your comprehension of what the words say is somewhat lacking.

      I said the Norwegian, and those other states you dredged up, have different legal system not only to Scotland but to each other. Thus there is no way to base assumptions of one legal system upon the laws of any other different legal system

      Scotland and Scottish laws are thus fundamentally different, even with English laws and much of the problems that Westminster now finds itself in are due to Westminster, since 1 May 1707, applying English law to Scotland, and remember there is no such legal system as United Kingdom Law. Westminster applies English law to the United Kingdom just as it assumes the United Kingdom is Greater England.

      I have been making these points for years here on Wings.

      The United Kingdom is exactly that – two only kingdoms in partnership that have two irreconcilable independent legal systems. It is actually all written down in the Treaty of Union and the differences are why, in 1703, the Scottish King’s inheritance of the crowns of England, Wales and Ireland did not, under the then English laws, (Divine Right of Kings), did not result in the monarch’s own personal United Kingdom all becoming parts of the Kingdom of Scotland.

      It also resulted in the English Crown/parliament claiming that the Jacobites who supported the Scottish Stewart Monarchy were rebels in 1688 – but you cannot against a foreign monarch and Scotland was still independent in 1688.

      That legal system difference caused problems then and is still causing problems today.

      Did not David Mundell make the Westminster claim on national TV, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom.”

      Trouble is that the Treaty of Union did no such thing but that is how Westminster has always interpreted it. Which is why the current actual Westminster set-up is Westminster acting as the de facto parliament of England that devolves a few powers of the de- facto parliament of the country of England down to what it treats as three subservient dominion countries of the United Kingdom.

      Trouble is the United Kingdom is not a quadratic union of countries it is a bipartite union on only two kingdoms and Scotland is legally a fully equal sovereign partner in the United Kingdom not a subservient country conquered and subsumed into the Kingdom of England renamed as the United Kingdom.

      The Treaty of Union says something quite different and almost every Article of Union say so. That means almost every article of union has been broken by Westminster.

      So yes you are spouting racist pish.

    318. Socrates MacSporran says:

      In the “day job,” or at least the few days per week during which I still work, I get very, very frustrated at the hauf-wits and heid cases who are doing their best to f***-up Scottish fitba and rugby – which isn’t really important in the grand scheme of things.

      So, just imagine how angry I get at the Little Englanders of the blue, red and yellow Tories, who are intent on dragging Scotland out of Europe. Then think how even angrier I am at their (metaphorically) kilted cousins up here, who would far rather see Scotland ruled by England, or the even greater anger-inducing antics of the likes of Fluffy and the currently absent Colonel.

      We really MUST get out of this ungodly Union, SOON.

    319. galamcennalath says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:

      We really MUST get out of this ungodly Union, SOON.

      Definitely!

      We need something positive to focus our pent up frustration, impatience, aspirations, anger, and hope on – we need a full blown Indy campaign.

      Our heads are awash with a cocktail of emotions which need venting before they explode!

      Soon …….

    320. Dr Jim says:

      Willie Rennie epitomises the British politician in all its ugly forms

      The First Minister must compromise compromise compromise but I will not, I will stand on the deck of this burning ship and down to my death I will go taking all those on this ship with me but I shall remain British above all always

      Scotland’s FM says you can still be British Willie I’m just offering you a seat in my lifeboat

      Willie says NAW! death before dishonour!

    321. Tom Busza says:

      OT
      Scotland drawn in same group as England, Argentina and Japan for 2019 Women’s World Cup.
      A quick glance at BBC’s article and appended comments shows the usual English anti-Scotland attitude (and I don’t accept it’s banter). Those comments have degenerated into general misogyny.

    322. HandandShrimp says:

      The Times Panel Base poll will have our SiU chooooms up to their wrists in green ink.

      A beautiful day and and an encouraging poll.

      Live long and prosper 🙂

    323. Marcia says:

      HandandShrimp

      Let us see what the trend is in these polls over the next few weeks. A less happier Christmas for the green ink set.

    324. Dr Jim says:

      Labour’s policy on Brexit is now clear

      If the Tories are going to win we don’t want it, if the Tories are going to lose we do want it and we’ll keep telling everyone that because tests, polling, u-turn, sensible, pragmatic, let us be clear, tests, eh more tests and we have said that quite clearly

      So in a nutshell folks Labour aren’t telling you, which actually makes them worse than the bloody Tories as if they’re not bad enough

    325. Jack Murphy says:

      OT. BREXIT. Concerns EU staff will leave Scottish universities.

      “Academics and researchers from the EU may be leaving their jobs because of Brexit, according to the Scottish Funding Council (SFC).

      The body, which helps fund colleges and universities, says there is “anecdotal evidence” EU staff are finding or considering new roles.

      More than a fifth of teaching and research staff are EU nationals…….”

      BBC:
      http://archive.is/xEo8h

    326. galamcennalath says:

      @Dr Jim

      Tory versus Labour

      It’s like two different species of venomous snake. One stands up in front of you showing itself and the threat it poses. The other hides in the long grass pretending to be benign. They are both as dangerous as one another.

    327. Referendum1707 says:

      At last finally some half decent news for once re the Panelbase poll, though I do think that a degree of caution about polls, whatever they’re saying, is in order. (Though why a poll generally favourable to indy would be “fixed” I couldn’t say).

      59% support indy over brexit, 53% support indy even with some kind of brexit “deal”, whatever that is.

      Then it goes on to say while that’s what they support they wouldn’t actually vote for it. WTF is that all about???

      Did they ask the question then ask them again “well you’ve expressed your preference but would you actually vote for it?”

      How did they arrive at the conclusion that the preference expressed wouldn’t nevertheless be voted for? I have no idea what’s going on there, does anyone else?

    328. wull2 says:

      If the EU tomorrow says WM cannot speak for the people of Scotland, and Scotland stays in the EU, does that mean England who wants to leave the EU also wants to leave Scotland.

    329. Lenny Hartley says:

      Referendum1707 Its quite smple, people generally dont react until about six mnths after something has happened, its the general direction that is important and its only going one way.
      During the andy ref2 campaign is when those who think they will be better off financially in a Indy Scotland are converted to Yes from No, if the Snp change its stance to membership of EFTA we hoover up a lot of the former yes voters who changed to no over Brexit.

    330. GrahamB says:

      Jack Murphy at 1:14
      Typical BBC reporting, promoting the Brexiteers’ them and us agenda. Honest journalism would have stated that more than 90% of academics and researchers are EU nationals but around 20% of them come from other parts of Europe outwith the UK. I used to work in research and I’m still an EU national although only until 29 March at least.

    331. jfngw says:

      We are one simple choice away from this Brexit madness. We can be a member of the EU/EEA/EFTA, I suspect they will all welcome us with open arms. After this if the rUK want to trade with these organisations they need to trade with Scotland, In the EU we would have the full power of them behind our trade agreements.

      The alternative is to let Westminster decide what our trade agreements will be, along with the majority of our social policy, our energy policy, our environmental policy and our fishing , etc.

      It’s a simple choice and it’s time to take it!

      Time for us to get off our knees, 300 hundred years of the Union has left Scotland in its current state.

    332. Cubby says:

      Manandboy @9.59am

      The Maybots fluffy poodle Mundell is a prime example of your description. Was this guy ever Scottish at some point in his life or was he always a Britnat poodle. This poodle will lick its masters shoes no matter how dirty.

      Just another Britnat selling out Scotland for a place in the House of Lords.

    333. Cubby says:

      It must be bloody sore being a Britnat crawling about on your knees all the time before Westminster. If we can get them to stand up and be Scottish then the Scottish health service will save a fortune in future knee replacements.

    334. starlaw says:

      As can be seen from the Brexit madness that an Independent Scotland will have a very very, nasty neighbour. It will be in Scotlands best interest to be a full member of the EU. for our own protection.

    335. Dr Jim says:

      Don’t worry about YES going up, watch NO going down

    336. robertknight says:

      I suspect the skewed poll, where the majority favour Indy Scotland in the EU but wouldn’t vote for it, is down to people associating a vote for Indy as a vote for the SNP.

      Plenty who see the benefits of Indy simply can’t bring themselves to vote for it as they see it as being solely the brainchild of the SNP and its leadership.

      So long as the Yoon press portray the Yes movement and the SNP as conjoined twins, the popularity of the former will always be hindered by the hostility shown towards the latter.

      Can’t think of any other reason for the discrepancy between the poll results.

      The SNP still remains a toxic brand for many in Scotland – mostly down to the unending MSM diet of SNPBad.

      Sort that problem and the rest will follow…

    337. schrodingers cat says:

      being back in the sm/cu is a must, the damage done to scotland by leaving will be considerable and efta/eea membership offers us the fastest way back in.

      remainer polls in scotland are at 69%, and of the other 31%, not all support no deal or treezas deal, this would put support for a Norway type deal at perhaps 80%

      I know many would prefer full eu membership, myself included, but, by definition, pro eu folk support being sm/cu (you cant be pro eu but anti sm/cu)

      a norway type deal for an indy scotland already has support from norway and iceland.

      problems with tying indyref2 to efta membership is our mandate calls for us to rejoin the eu.the unionists will make a big issue of this

      i’m not certain how efta countries will like the idea of us being temporary members on route to eu membership.

      the 62% who voted remain, did so for the agreement that the uk had. this is now gone, even for the uk should it decide to stay. Nicola has a mandate to sign up for efta/eea, but not for whatever deal the eu will offer an indy scotland. eg, she could not take scotland into the euro zone on the strength of the 62%. the unionists are already putting this forward as an argument (even tho’ it isnt true) that we would have to join the euro.

      btw, a promise to join the euro at a future time would be required but it isnt enforcable. It could be argued that the 62% remain vote doesnt mandate nicola to make such a promise

      the main reason i prefer etfa/eea is that it isnt in our power to promise eu membership in indyref2, we did that in indyref1 and the unionists dug up (bribed) barrossa to say on prime time tv that a yes vote would mean we would be out of the eu. they would do this again.

      more importantly, the eu have said publicly that we would need to rejoin a a new state under article 49.

      just some of the reasons why i think efta/eea is a better option for indyref2

      we can also turn some of the unionists propaganda back on themselves when they ask why not eu membership

      eg,

      andra neil said we would need to join a queue

      andrew marr said spain would veto us

      dimbilby said europe would say no to us cos of their own issues with separatists
      🙂

    338. Cactus says:

      Good afternoon beautiful people, hey Socrates, all is good in the neighbourhood, different strokes fur different folks it is, there is indeed method to the madness 🙂

      Many thanks for all your kind words Wingers.

      Everybuddy feeling motivated yeah.

      Ahm a naughty rascal hehe.

    339. Sarah says:

      @ Ronnie Anderson at 10.53.

      Don’t you mean Michael Marra “Hermless”?

      “And now I’ll go hame for ma tea..”

    340. Sarah says:

      @Ronnie Anderson – anent my previous comment, not intended to be pedantic, I just love Michael Marra’s song! I expect Matt McGinn is good, too.

    341. Brian Powell says:

      I wonder what the result would be if folk were asked, “Would you support Independence if the Tories were in power in Scotland?”, because to a very large extent that is what is happening.

    342. Rev., may I suggest that those fonts of all knowledge on here are made to give their full names and not be allowed to hide behind all these non de plumes what have they got to hide ??? They love to
      Critise but are not honest enough to tell us who they are to me it tells me to ignore their views

    343. Legerwood says:

      O/T but not by much

      I have posted a couple of times recently on the likely devastating effect of Brexit on the shell fishing industry on the West Coast of Scotland – those fisherman were in the main Remainers. Meg merilees has also drawn people’s attention to this little discussed aspect of the fishing sector.

      But there is also a thriving shellfishing sector on the east coast based on Eyemouth. This is an excellent article on that industry in Eyemouth from Newsnet – a must read
      https://newsnet.scot/news-analysis/is-eyemouth-facing-a-brexit-employment-tsumani/

      Lots of detail. While centred on Eyemouth many of the points it makes also apply to the West Coast shellfish industry

    344. Robert Peffers says:

      @robertknight says: 9 December, 2018 at 3:16 pm:

      ” … I suspect the skewed poll, where the majority favour Indy Scotland in the EU but wouldn’t vote for it, is down to people associating a vote for Indy as a vote for the SNP.”

      I suspect it is the result of the usual suspected idiots.

      I am still surprised at the large percentage of people who quite obviously cannot actually figure, even the simplest things, out for themselves.

      I’ll quote you an example of how the, Westminster owned/controlled media brainwash a large proportion of the population, (and not just in the Kingdom of England).

      I have never met an English person that doesn’t just accept that When Scotland leaves what remains will be just be the United Kingdom minus the country of Scotland and, what is more, they just blindly accept that the United Kingdom is, “A country”.

      Even most of the EU thought that way too until fairly recently. They did after all accept the United Kingdom as a member, “country”.

      However, the truth is that the United Kingdom is exactly that – a kingdom of two partner kingdoms and one of them signed up as a three country kingdom.

      The treaty that formed The United Kingdom has only got two signatory kingdoms and the status quo ante of that arrangement is a return to being two independent kingdoms.

      Furthermore. there is no elected as such parliament of either the country or the kingdom of England.

      When the Scottish and English kingdoms part company the Westminster Parliament is no longer legally the United Kingdom Parliament and there is no one elected as a member of the parliament of the Kingdom of England.

      So guess who will be legally in charge?

      The Queen of England who is also Queen of Scots and is duty bound to protect the sovereignty of the legally sovereign people of Scotland. So who do you fancy as the new monarch of Scots?

      Personally I favour an elected president and declaring the kingdom a republic but I suppose, if it has to be a royal, Princess Margaret is the obvious choice as she at least supports Scottish Rugby.

    345. ScottieDog says:

      @schrodingers cat
      “being back in the sm/cu is a must, the damage done to scotland by leaving will be considerable and efta/eea membership offers us the fastest way back in.”

      That’s my preference over EU to be honest although I know many folk would disagree.

      The stability growth pact was a crazy rule and that amongst other things turned a portion of the left against EU membership. This enforcement of a certain deficit and debt level (which suited Germany with its massive trade surplus) is my main bug bear. Also This ‘non-enforceable promise to join the Eurozone’ game just sews the seeds of uncertainty and let’s face it no matter which option we we go for the unionists will ramp up project fear anyway.

      More and more in the unionist media are mentioning the Norway option for the U.K. although they would be blocked by Norway and labour and the tories will vote it down anyway. So this option is now in the public psyche and there’s a good chance scotland would be accepted.

    346. Dan Huil says:

      Fluffy Mundane now saying he would not “serve” under a Boris Johnson premiership.

      So that means he will. He loves the role of lapdog lickspittle.

    347. Shinty says:

      @ Blair Paterson, I would say it doesn’t matter a damn what handle you use. The content of comments is far more important.

      My friend for example cannot post pro indy comments under her own name due to her pro union employer, who would make her life so miserable that she would be forced to resign.

      So, post away as you wish under your given name, but please respect others in their choice not to.

    348. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Dan Huil

      Fluffy is probably well aware, he will not be asked to serve in any Boris J led government, since Ross Thompson has already claimed the patronising and annoying the Jocks gig.

    349. Tom Busza says:

      @ Robert Peffers says: if it has to be a royal, Princess Margaret is the obvious choice as she at least supports Scottish Rugby.

      Without wishing to be pedantic, surely you mean Princess Anne. Maggie’s been dead some now.

    350. Dr Jim says:

      So Theresa May is the ultimate sacrificial goody making the Brexit deal so unpalatable for everybody that a second referendum takes place and remain wins which is what she planned all along for the good of r precious union

      It will say in her biography written by David Torrance

    351. geeo says:

      To those folks still fussing over an Indy Scotland’s relationship with the EU, i would gently remind them that without a YES vote, without independence by any other means, the relationship with the EU is very simple.

      OUT the EU 100%.

      Lets exit the Union and get our independence, then take it from there.

    352. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      Perfect Sunday-sloth-time reading.

      That includes you, Cactus.

      Isn’t this the guide that we’ve all been praying for?

    353. Capella says:

      @ Blair Paterson – is that your real name?

    354. Proud Cybernat says:

      The Maybot insists that her ‘deal’ is the only ‘deal’ on the table. Well, come tomorrow, it may be the only ‘deal’ but, hopefully, it will no longer be the only option.

    355. Luigi says:

      Referendum1707 says:
      9 December, 2018 at 1:20 pm
      At last finally some half decent news for once re the Panelbase poll, though I do think that a degree of caution about polls, whatever they’re saying, is in order. (Though why a poll generally favourable to indy would be “fixed” I couldn’t say).
      59% support indy over brexit, 53% support indy even with some kind of brexit “deal”, whatever that is.
      Then it goes on to say while that’s what they support they wouldn’t actually vote for it. WTF is that all about???
      Did they ask the question then ask them again “well you’ve expressed your preference but would you actually vote for it?”
      How did they arrive at the conclusion that the preference expressed wouldn’t nevertheless be voted for? I have no idea what’s going on there, does anyone else?

      Don’t be fooled by this poll, folks. The timing stinks to high heaven. It’s a clever ploy to scare tories into supporting the Brexit deal. WM is desperate, and they know the EU will not budge one more inch, so they have to scare the tories into supporting the “deal”.

      Two scare tactics, remind people of the likelihood of:

      1) Corbyn as PM.
      2) Scotch independence

      Funny how these scarey indy polls appear at very opportune moments (remember 2014). 🙂

    356. galamcennalath says:

      59% indy rather than no deal
      53% Indy rather than an orderly Brexit
      47% YES

      My guess of what we are seeing here is that 47% Yes / 53% No is a manifestation of folks who wish / hope Brexit won’t happen at all. Same as 2014 – people in denial about the change coming down the tracks. They want things to just stay as they are because they are coping with the status quo at least adequately, perhaps better. They just don’t want change.

      As soon as folks appreciate change within the UK is coming, and it won’t be for the better, then the 53-59% is our starting point.

    357. frogesque says:

      For anyone interested, frogesque has been froggy for probably longer than either froggy or myself can remember, (which btw is sometime after breakfast)

      Anyone doesn’t like it? Tough, suck it up or scroll on by.

      Buried in the mists, froggy first saw light of day in a poyem written as a satorial reply to a lady looking for a soulmate who said “frogs need not apply”. Online I’ve been froggy or frogesque (a word I invented: in the manner of statuesque, Romanesque, picturesque etc.) It’s self mocking yet proud at the same time. I’m completely comfortable with it.

      Others use nomdeplumes for their own reasons, some are descriptive, some funny and some political.

      Others use their real name.

      Content is everything, the ‘handle’ irrelevant so long as it isn’t illegal then anything goes.

    358. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      schrodingers cat at 3.22

      “more importantly, the eu have said publicly that we would need to rejoin a a new state under article 49.”

      The EU said no such thing.

    359. frogesque says:

      Re Fluffy serving under Boris.

      Boris maybe a foolish nincompoop but he is NOT stupid. Fluffy won’t even get a Christmas card never mind an invite to the party.

      Think the loyal May lapdog will settle for the dead rodent just to underline his own sence of unimportance.

    360. KOF says:

      @Robert Peffers 16:25

      “So who do you fancy as the new monarch of Scots?”

      Me! 🙂

      Seriously, why stick with any part of the “British” line? I think you meant Princess Anne, rather than Margaret. Why not put the franchise up for competition, as it were? The monarch is merely the chief of chiefs. The job of the chief to protect and lead the clan, the people. Anyone who can trace a descent from any Scottish chief could potentially be monarch. If we’re going to have a kingdom, lets not do it the way everybody else does it. Let’s do it our way.

    361. Abulhaq says:

      @RobertPeffers
      Indeed! Minus Scotland there ain’t no United Kingdom. Eventually, as events work themselves out, the coin will drop among the purblind Unionist faithful. An end to talk of the ‘youkay’ is something devoutly to be wished.

    362. dakk says:

      robertknight says:
      9 December, 2018 at 9:46 am
      So, 53% think Scotland will be better off as an Independent EU member state….
      But only 47% would vote for the former, and 53% for the latter!

      There are those who know that Scotland would be better off independent(in or out of the EU),but they don’t really care about Scotland or it’s people,so will vote against it’s interests.

      They will have some perceived or vested interest in the Yoonion .They attribute their livelihood and well being to UK gov in some way or other and will just look the other way where their own country is concerned.

    363. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT I see the glorious greens are threatening to vote against the Scottish budget – Labour , Tory and the lovely liberals are set to vote against it as usual , I wonder if they have studied it???

      I’m truly pissed off with this shower of non thinking cretins.

    364. Golfnut says:

      We should remain a Kingdom, the oldest surviving Kingdom in Europe. We have an alternative to a reigning monarch, we can elect a Gaurdian to represent the crown. The Crown is just to big a negotiating cudgel to give up before all negotiations are finalised.

    365. schrodingers cat says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      you keep saying this, i am genuinely perplexed,
      i am not trolling, i believe this to be the eu’s official position for an indyscot, ie rejoining as a new member via article 49

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-eu-independence-referendum-scotland-join-queue-membership-apply-a7627201.html

      At a briefing in Brussels, Margaritis Schinas, the spokesman for the European Commission (EC) said Scotland would not be granted automatic access to the EU if it split from the rest of the UK.

      the Government in Holyrood would have to apply for EU membership under Article 49 of the Treaty on European Union.

      Jacqueline Minor, the European commission’s head of representation in the UK, said Scotland would need to formally apply after leaving the UK,

      —————————
      i have no doubt we would be welcomed and fastracked by other eu member states but the point still remains, we would still need to join as a new state under a49.

      as such, saying to voters we would automatically be granted eu members status isnt correct and not in our power to grant to the people.

      I am genuinely interested on what information or statements you have heard which infer something different

      btw
      https://www.snp.org/3-important-takeaways-from-nicola-sturgeons-scotland-in-europe-speech/

      this also appears to be nicola’s take on the subject

      “short of continued EU membership – should, in future, Scotland choose to be independent and seek to rejoin the EU.

    366. Iain mhor says:

      Aye…
      Now who has been mentioning 47% for a while?
      Huffs nails, polishes on lapel.

      Licks pencil, returns to the forms…
      Thinks *Can ye no stoat up a Yankee studying the cuddies instead? Meh, Indy is my jackpot.

    367. schrodingers cat says:

      galamcennalath says:

      59% indy rather than no deal
      53% Indy rather than an orderly Brexit
      47% YES

      this is very heartening and it was always pretty obvious that brexit would push some nos to yes, but 59%!!!!

      i’ll take that

    368. schrodingers cat says:

      geeo says:

      To those folks still fussing over an Indy Scotland’s relationship with the EU, i would gently remind them that without a YES vote, without independence by any other means, the relationship with the EU is very simple.

      OUT the EU 100%.

      _____________

      this is true, but we cant go into indyref2 without giving any thought to our eu position.? refusing to answer questions on the subject

      indeed, not only isnt our position clear, it is isnt clear to many even on this thread, what the eu’s position regarding an indy scotland after the 29/03/19

    369. geeo says:

      Again, the cart is being put before the horse.

      No indy = pointless discussion over article 1 to 1 Million.

      But here is my tuppence, since we insist.

      If the EU said something like this…
      …….

      At a briefing in Brussels, Margaritis Schinas, the spokesman for the European Commission (EC) said Scotland would not be granted automatic access to the EU if it split from the rest of the UK.
      …………

      ….then they have shown a complete misunderstanding of the legal status of the United Kingdom.

      “If it split from the rest of the Uk”

      That is NOT a remotely accurate reflection of the United Kingdom’s legal status, as patiently explain hundreds of times by Mr Peffers.

      We will not be splitting FROM the REST of the Uk, we are seeking to DISSOLVE the United Kingdom, as legally equal PARTNER kingdom with ONE OTHER signatory.

      So, anyone saying “If it split from the rest of the Uk”, is clearly not qualified to make such a statement as it completely misrepresents the Legal Facts of the matter.

      But as i said, none of this matters if we are not independent.

      Independence 1st, EVERYTHING after that are mere details.

    370. ronnie anderson says:

      Sarah sorry just back online & noticed your comments at 3.35pm lol ma mistook wie the confuddlement ah meant M Marra but ah like baith McGinn & Marra .

    371. ronnie anderson says:

      Sarah sorry just back online & noticed your comments at 3.35pm lol ma mistook wie the confuddlement ah meant M Marra but ah like baith McGinn & Marra .

    372. Sarah says:

      @ Ronnie (: !!

    373. Breeks says:

      Wow. Channel 4 having a Brexit debate with 1 Green, 1 Labour, and 2 Tories…

      Fk off Channel 4.

      Best regards, Scotland.

    374. Cubby says:

      Blair Paterson@4.15pm

      You really really like mince.

    375. Lenny Hartley says:

      Luigi, agree with you regarding timing of Poll. However as somebody who took part in it I can advise that the questions seemed to be neutral and there were no leading questions etc. So as polls go it was legit as any.
      Indont read the dead tree scrolls apart from the National now and then , so I dont know if the Sunday Times just reported the “Brexit”;questions. If so there are Hollyrood and Westminster Voting intentions to come.
      Regarding Aa post that Socrates posted earlier , think you have got it wrong pal, the mandate says “ the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is “clear and sustained evidence” that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a “significant and material” change in circumstances, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will.” Nothing about having to rejoin the EU!

    376. Phronesis says:

      What value does the UK Parliament place on a person’s life-not much according to its political choices.

      ‘What value does the UK Parliament place on a person’s life? There is no single answer. People are not treated as equals. Public policy, notably in relation to the differential impact of taxation on the population, divides the population into two classes. Parliament accords priority treatment to owners of rent-generating assets, discriminating against those who are asset-poor’

      https://landresearchtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Bulletin-1-Life-Chances-Act.pdf

      ‘Fixing the health crisis is a choice for politicians, not people…Decades of increasing life expectancy in the UK have ceased; infant mortality is now rising and life expectancy is declining for many age groups, and for the most deprived groups of women. Furthermore, a recent study in the Lancet found the life expectancy gap between the most affluent and most deprived deciles increased between 2001 and 2016 for both men (from 9.0 years to 9.7 years) and women (6.1 years to 7.9 years)… In the European infant mortality rankings, the UK fell from seventh in 1990 to 19th in 2015. Finally, the repeated concerns from experts that the rise in infant mortality reflected worsening socioeconomic conditions11 were echoed in a recent United Nations report, which says 40% of all UK children are predicted to be living in poverty by 2022…

      The recent UN report detailed the groups most affected by austerity—older people, children, women, those living with disabilities, asylum seekers, and migrants.11 Many of these groups have seen their health outcomes worsen. The evidence is becoming indisputable: austerity is linked to worsening mental health and suicide rates, worse child health outcomes, and higher mortality among older people…The current unprecedented worsening in health outcomes—specifically, life expectancy and infant mortality—is also a political choice’

      http://www.dannydorling.org/?p=7004

      The ‘One Nation Conservatives’ seem a bit stuck. They blame and shame everyone else for their own failings by not taking responsibility for their deliberate political choices. Rhetorical hostility to any vulnerable societal group, rhetorical hostility to the European project and a greater use of British nationalist sentiment to define their position (in tandem with UKIP).They don’t seem very family orientated within the family of Nations.

      Scotland has grown up and no longer need listen to the rhetoric of WM nor look to WM for guidance. This is exactly the time to be thinking about independence.

    377. ronnie anderson says:

      KOF I’ve read a few proposed Scottish Constitutions , 1st things 1st we need to be Independent . And in that Independence we dont need to import any would be heads of state and incur huge financial expenses for a Fake Royalty after all we’re paying Scotland’s share of the £40billion for refurbishment of that Sovereignty witch rests with Westminster , we need to expunge all pretence of royalty in a Independent Scotland ie crown estates ect ownership of the Seabed & the shores .

    378. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The EU is constained by its founding principles and cannot comment on the internal affairs of any member state except in entirely non controversial manner.
      It can wink at us however which lots are presently doing. The alomst universal distaste for the behaviour of the UK means the winking is becoming rather more obvious.

      Should the UK be dissolved there is no reason why Scotland and the rUK should not be described in the same constitutional position as succeeding states.

      There is no EU mechanism for throwing a member out and it could be logically and sensibly argued that an independent Scotland as a 40 year member of the EU should just remain in – just like rUK would (unless it continues with its present insanity).

      The notion that the expansionist EU would seek to throw out the country with much of the EU fishing grounds, most of its oil and gas and a strategic command of the North Atlantic is absurd.

    379. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      How pathetic is Channel 4 ?

    380. PacMan says:

      I see Corbyn is on the new again trying to bring down the Tory government with a possible no confidence vote.

      Ok, most non politically interested people only see his actions through lens of the Tory media but considering how many times he has shot himself in the foot with u-turn after u-turn, not to mention members of his cabinet contradicting him, can any one actually take him serious to be a credible alternative to the shower that is in government now?

      Take that in contrast to Nicola Sturgeon and the members of the Scottish government who have taken a disciplined and consistent approach to Brexit throughout even though at times it is diametrically opposed to what their beliefs are considering the opportunities presented if they were to do nothing.

      I know a lot of people feel frustrated about this and think it is another wasted opportunity that will be looked upon in the near future as something to be regretted. However, given how incompetent and fractured both the main UK parties are, not to mention that on Brexit they can’t ignore their support in England, especially Labour in the Brexit voting heartlands, the short term pain of the SNP doing the correct thing now will bring them the right thing of the prize of independence when it will be plain to see to the Scottish public that it is the only course for them to take if they want to be in Europe.

    381. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Ronnie,my late father who was the harbour secretary, along with the help of Alex Salmond proved that the crown did not own the seabed of the harbour or indeed the harbour in my village.

      The crown at that time wanted to triple mooring dues without putting a penny into the upkeep of the infrastructure.

      Alex found documents in the House of Lords archive showing that James XI had given the seabed to the village.

      A lovely victory started by an English born man helped by a brilliant Scottish born politician.

      The village will be better off from the greed of the English crown forever.

      A small victory perhaps but one I cherish.

    382. galamcennalath says:

      Guardian authoritatively tell us in their live feed of updates …. “All-party panel set out stances in Channel 4’s Brexit debate – Politics live”

      Aye, all the ENGLISH parties! If the UK has ceased to exist, can someone announce it officially!?

      The parties at WM are …

      Con 317 *
      Lab 262 *
      SNP 35
      LibD 12 *
      DUP 10
      SF 7
      PC 4
      Eng Greens 1 *

      Four ENGLISH parties appear
      Four NON ENGLISH parties excluded

      How more blatant can you get!?

      {fumin’}

    383. Shinty says:

      In 2014, when the people of Scotland voted NO to independence, they voted for a continuation of the Treaty of the Union.

      The vote did not change the Treaty, nor did it in anyway allow England to follow a rule of domination over Scotland.

      The rubbish constantly brought up by (mainly) the tory party,(we voted NO in 2014, so suck it up) actually holds no weight whatsoever. The 1707 Treaty still stands – equal partners between the Kingdom of Scotland & the Kingdom of England.

      What I am trying to say here is – this ‘UK vote’ is completely meaningless. The sovereign people of the Kingdom of Scotland says fuck you, we voted to remain in the EU.

      What say you Betty – cat got your tongue?

    384. ben madigan says:

      with regards to Scotland’s EU status -In my view we would automatically be granted eu members status as long as we declared independence and the wish to remain within the EU (the latter has already been done) before Brexit Day (29th march 2019).

      We would not be leaving and would not have to re-apply for membership.

      After that date – who knows?

    385. Effijy says:

      I watched Fluffy the Beard Eater Mundane, Mundell on the Brewer Unionist show.

      As we all know hew Vowed, there goes that word again that Westminster thinks means lie, to resign if N Ireland got a deal preferential to Scotland’s, but that Vow is superseded by him Number One Priority to lick his tory master’s boots and do their biding for them.

      It doesn’t matter one jot that Scotland is treated unfairly when compared to N Ireland and we risk Scottish Companies relocating to Ulster to stay in the EU Trading Block.

      Future companies looking to expand would always see Scotland loosing out due to superior trading opportunities across the sea

      So Fluffy’s ultimate objective is to keep Westminster’s hand in Scotland’s Pocket and its heel on our throats.

      This should ensure that he gets a wee ermine robe and a lovely pension for his services to the murderous Empire.

      Channel 4 No More!
      How dare they attempt to suggest that they are having a Brexit Debate with some of Westminster’s politicians yet no one there from Scotland, the SNP or from the 3rd Largest Party in parliament.

      2 x Tories out of 4 seems fair?????????????????

    386. ronnie anderson says:

      Dorothy Devine Hud the bus there Dorothy is that newspaper talk , its not unexpected that the greens Wee Harvey to object to something after all it his best chance of Grandstanding .

    387. schrodingers cat says:

      the uk is presently the member state of the eu

      if we vote indy then the uk ceases to exist

      the kingdom of england or scots would be considered new states to the eu, or both would be successor states

      we can only remain if we become indy before 29/03/19. this is unlikely

      in such a case, the semantics of joining or rejoining is irrelevant. both england and scotland would need to join/rejoin via a49
      ————-

      The EU is constained by its founding principles and cannot comment on the internal affairs of any member state except in entirely non controversial manner.
      ————

      it didnt stop barrossa doing exactly that during indyref1 and it was given front page headlines for weeks. the eu is constraint in what it officially says, but individual eu politicians can always be bribed
      —————-

      It can wink at us however which lots are presently doing. The alomst universal distaste for the behaviour of the UK means the winking is becoming rather more obvious
      ——————–

      the fact nicola met 2 of the 3 eu presidents in the wake of the euref, which was not welcomed by everyone in the eu, the french were very annoyed, suggests the eu is more than just winking.

      but that doesnt change the eu’s position, which we will need to deal with during indyref2. we would need to rejoin/join via a49

      once indy, the eu’s attitude to scotland will change immediately, why wouldnt it? we have most of their fish, oil and gas.

      what i am going to do is to see if i can get a reply regarding the eus position from the snp.

    388. schrodingers cat says:

      There is no EU mechanism for throwing a member out

      if we are not indy by 29/03/19, they wont have to, we will have left along with the ruk

    389. sandy says:

      OT.
      Remember, a NO to YES is worth two more votes. Everybody, keep working on the “don’t knows”. Then, when the real promotion starts —

    390. Dr Jim says:

      Labour have run out of faces and directions to face
      They’re just screaming loudly just vote for us now and we’ll invent a face for that honest we will

      At least the May Tories are being honest about their incompetence , they’re saying don’t worry further on down the line we’ll trick somebody and win that way, after all we did it to Scotland

      The Jacob Rees Moggs Tories are just positively deadly

      The Greens: Why do we even bother it’s just high pitched whining from folk who will never even implement a lettuce for their lunch, that’s not to say they’re wrong, they’re just rubbish at arguing a case because everyone knows they’re ineffective so nobody listens

      Liberal Democrats: nothing whatsoever to offer because they’re proven opportunists and nobody likes that

      SNP: Absolutely correct in everything they’ve said but demonised so much in the media that Brits North and South don’t want to listen to them because of the secret hidden terror that da da da daaah Independence is sure to bring because for years the media has told them that, so even though not very many folk believe what they read in the papers, for some reason they believe that

      After Independence the SNP will immediately do eh something , don’t know what but It’ll be something that’s eh bad because they just want to be Baad for some reason because they wont want anybody to vote for them again because all they want is to destroy the country, again don’t know why but defo they do, my mate in the pub said so and that’s good enough for me

      My country of Scotland is becoming mentally irregular because of a lunatic media intent on filling peoples heads with unpleasantness about the only political movement that can save it the SNP

      If we don’t let the SNP save us what will we have, NOTHING
      What happens if we do nothing, we’ll end up with NOTHING
      In all my life the SNP has never gassed me, drunk my blood or shoved me up a chimney, so what’s holding you back unbelievers

    391. Effijy says:

      For those who voted for Brexit and knew exactly what it was they were voting for, can they answer what they knew about:

      * Special Deal For N Ireland?

      * By What percentage will that UK Standard of living drop in the first 5 years?

      * How many thousand European Citizens working in the NHS and our Educational facilities have left thru Brexit and how many thousand has Westminster deterred from applying?

      * How much more expensive will fuel be as oil is sold in $Dollars?

      * How many Items that we use daily that comes over from Europe will we not be able to source and how many no longer affordable?

      * Does Scotland become independent through Brexit?

      * By what percentage will European Holidays become more expensive with Fuel Increases, E11 Health Card’s demise,
      and spending money not going so far?

      * How much longer will it take to pass people through EU Passport Control and how long for goods transfers to pass
      through border controls with the appropriate tariffs?

      * How many £Billion has to be spend on legal fees to facilitate Brexit and set up any future trade agreements, if every they get one.

      * How many hundred thousand jobs will be lost by Brexit?

      * Will the new trade free UK increase the pension age to 70?

    392. schrodingers cat says:

      ben madigan says:
      9 December, 2018 at 8:28 pm
      with regards to Scotland’s EU status -In my view we would automatically be granted eu members status as long as we declared independence and the wish to remain within the EU (the latter has already been done) before Brexit Day (29th march 2019).

      We would not be leaving and would not have to re-apply for membership.

      After that date – who knows?

      im, not sure we would but since i doubt we will be indy before 29/03/19, it is academical

      after that point, my understanding is we would need to apply as a new member state via s49

      this needs clarification

    393. Legerwood says:

      ronnie anderson says:
      9 December, 2018 at 8:41 pm
      “”Dorothy Devine Hud the bus there Dorothy is that newspaper talk ,…””

      Nope, it was the man himself saying it on STV news. Seemed very pleased with himself too.

      ….

      Effijy @ 8.28pm

      The Guardian billed it as an ‘All party debate…’

      They really can’t help themselves can they?

    394. Rock says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      9 December, 2018 at 12:26 am

      “Norway,which is listed as the most Democratic country in the world,”

      According to Robert Peffers, Norway is not a democratic country.

      Robert Peffers (28 November – “Braveheart or somethingsays”):

      “Well, besides the point that kingdom’s are all monarchies and all monarchies are diametrically opposites of democracies. You cannot have a democracy when the monarchy is sovereign.”

      Rock (28 November – “Braveheart or somethingsays”):

      “Where did you learn that shite from?

      Is the Kingdom of Norway not a democracy?”

    395. Rock says:

      Hello Elizabeth.

      Have you decided whether your right to vote is more important than Scottish independence?

      Rock (5th December – “In different times”):

      “By the way Elizabeth, no hurry but don’t forget to make up your mind as what you value more:

      a better chance for Scottish independence by denying the vote to English settlers

      or a lesser chance by allowing the vast majority of English settlers to vote No again.”

    396. Rock says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      9 December, 2018 at 8:54 pm

      “There is no EU mechanism for throwing a member out

      if we are not indy by 29/03/19, they wont have to, we will have left along with the ruk”

      Do you think Scotland will be independent by 29/03/19?

      When do you think Nicola will call an independence referendum?

      I say again with 100% confidence that Westminster is not going to grant a Section 30 order for a legally binding independence referendum before 2640 AD.

      I can again say with 100% confidence that Establishment lawyer Nicola will not dare call an independence referendum without a Section 30 order.

    397. manandboy says:

      remo says:
      “I believe there have been studies to show that people who swear do not have a limited vocabulary, are considered to be more trustworthy and honest and, wait for it, are more intelligent. I swear a lot.”

      In the absence of links to the studies you refer to, remo, I stand by my position on the negative impact of the ‘F’ word on Wings.

      Try swearing to a traffic policeman, a doctor in A&E, or a bouncer outside a club, and see how far it gets you.

    398. From RT on line.

      Labour politicians are outraged and calling for a probe after a report that a McCarthy style charity has received £2 million in government money and targeted Jeremy Corbyn.

      The institute for Statecraft based in Scotland claims to counter Russian propaganda using journalists and influencers using social media.

      Leaked documents show the organisation is funded by foreign office cash and run by British military intelligence specialists.

      No shit really?

      Is it just me or is this familiar to anyone on here?

      How long has this been going on, with attacks on Scotland without a sound from Labour?

    399. remo says:

      @manandboy

      Google it. It’s easy to find the research. You may not have noticed but we are not talking to policemen here and if you are not a swearer – draw your own conclusions.

    400. @Robert Peffers,

      i posted,

      Norway,which is listed as the most Democratic country in the world, (True)

      limits who can vote in her elections,(True)

      `Only Norwegian citizens can vote in the Parliamentary elections, but foreigners who have lived in Norway for three years continuously can vote in the local elections.` (True)

      a direct quote from Wiki,

      Elections in Norway,

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Norway

      why does Norway`s electoral system make me a racist,

      totally baffled.

    401. sassenach says:

      Oh no!!
      Rock’s back for his usual evening disruption.

    402. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Hello Rock, you are rather like Mrs.May. Give two perverse positions & demand one choice.

      It will never happen. Don’t you get bored being so repetitive?

      Also,why should I answer you just because you demand it?

    403. Terence callachan says:

      Dr.jim….effijy….rock….well done people your posts are magnificent…I’m loving the Scottish independence vibe as it should be, cleverly put ..ahhhhh

    404. orri says:

      Suspect that the only two parties not considered Enemies of the State as far as the security services of the UK are considered are the Conservatives and the Lib Dems although the later are probably on a shoogly peg due to their merger with refugees from the Labour party in the form of the SDLP.

      Of course Labour might have been taken off the watch list if they knew it existed but doubt they’ve been informed so as to avoid their legal authority being denied when they do. Easy to avoid refusing and order when the people who should be able to give said order don’t know they can give it.

      Conveniently these same security services have input into the BBC, and probably Channel Four, whilst at the same time the charter has been changed so blatantly demand an institutional bias against anything deemed to undermine the UK.

    405. jfngw says:

      Why can I not read a Richard Leonard tweet without bobbing my head up and down. I’ve got to stop watching him, he’s making me into a freak.

    406. Some labour politician being interviews on R4 just now about Brexit and what happens next.

      The BBC Interviewer suggested that if the ECJ ruling tomorrow morning states that we can revoke Article 50 then surely that opens up another option to Deal/No Deal.

      Labour woman replies : Oh absolutely not because we’ve always known that Article 50 could be revoked. You heard it on the BBC….

    407. Liz g says:

      manandboy @ 9.41
      That an apples and oranges comparison!
      That no one should be spoken to in an abusive way when doing their job of work,is no in dispute!In that situation the Word Fuck is used in an abusive manner almost without exception.

      No one has to be here and no one’s livelihood requires them to be here… (Rev expected obviously).
      Also the word (and it is only a word) when used here is usually used as emphasis.Which is a generally accepted use currently.That it wasn’t always so,is of course,not in dispute either,but language’s evolve!
      Therefore …. It seem to me to be a matter of taste..
      So if you really don’t like it..the word not the deed obviously!!! Don’t use it.
      But the freedom to comment is one of the reasons this site is so successful….undeniably successful.
      Sooo… It would be fair to say that NOT telling other adults how they should be expressing themselves is the general consensus… Don’t ye think?
      After all fairs fair… Nobody is making you use it now are they….. AKA leave the fuckers tae fuck…. otherwise someone is sure to come along and tell ye tae get tae… well ye know!

    408. call me dave says:

      A couple of Tories on Radio 5 Live now stuttering & stammering about Brexit and the ‘backstop’ in NI.

      Trying to justify the deal which they say works for the whole UK economy. The ‘British’ folk just want to get on with it not just a political navel gazing exercise.

      Corbyn is just playing party politics wanting a GE. Also the stock markets deliberately going up and down playing silly buggers.

      Also by the way the ‘British people’ knew what they were voting for right from the start… 🙂 Aye!

      The vote to go ahead as planned next week they say.

      One says a peoples vote (referendum) may be, at the end, an option but there are lots of possible questions maybe 8 that might / should be on the ballot. Too difficult.. also maybe setting winning % vote margin.

      Not enough popcorn in! 🙂

    409. K1 says:

      ‘If someone’s ever accused you of sounding less intelligent because you swear too much, don’t worry – science has got your back. A 2015 study found that those who have a healthy repertoire of curse words at their disposal are more likely to have a richer vocabulary than those who don’t.

      This challenges the long-held stereotype that people swear because they can’t find more intelligent words with which to express themselves.

      As Stephen Fry once said, “The sort of twee person who thinks swearing is in any way a sign of a lack of education or a lack of verbal interest is just f*cking lunatic.”

      Psychologists Kristin Jay and Timothy Jay of Marist College and the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts (not clear if related) came up with the hypothesis that people who are well-versed in curse words are more likely to have greater overall language fluency too.

      For the first experiment, they gathered 43 participants (30 women) aged between 18 and 22 years, and first asked them to rattle off as many swear or taboo words as they could in 60 seconds.

      Next, they had to recite as many animal names as they could in 60 seconds. The researchers used animal names as an indication of a person’s overall vocabulary and interest in language.

      As any intelligible American English taboo word or phrase was considered fair game, the participants ended up generating a total of 533 taboo words, including the rather obscure “cum dumpster” and “ass pirate”.
      The participants also submitted to so-called FAS tasks, which are standardised verbal fluency tests.

      In a second experiment, another 49 participants (34 women) aged between 18 and 22 were asked to perform a similar task – this time they were asked to write down as many curse words and animal names starting with the letter “a” as they could.

      They also completed FAS tasks to assess their overall language fluency.

      Publishing in the journal Language Sciences, the researchers also found that expressive curse words were generated at higher rates than slurs, and there was little difference between what the female and male participants could come up with.

      “[C]onsistent with findings that do not show a sex difference in taboo lexicon size, no overall sex difference in taboo word generation was obtained,” they reported.

      They found that the ability to generate curse words was not an index of overall language poverty – in fact, they found that taboo fluency is positively correlated with other measures of verbal fluency.

      “That is, a voluminous taboo lexicon may better be considered an indicator of healthy verbal abilities rather than a cover for their deficiencies,” the researchers concluded.

      https://www.sciencealert.com/people-who-swearing-cursing-rude-words-better-vocabulary-science

      ______________________________________________________-

      Context is everything. By all means have yer opinions about it…but what I want to know to those who claim it’s not good ‘for Wings’ is why haven’t you pulled the swear trooping master up on this ever on here? Why haven’t any of you offended people ever called the Rev out on his swearing…you wouldn’t fuckin’ dare that’s why.

      So get aff yer high horses, you don’t like what a commenter posts, scroll on.

      Simple, don’t fucking lecture people just cause you don’t like hearing a word inside your own head when you read it on a page. Cause that is insanity. So tired of this holier than thou pish and before anyone reacts with the usual ‘what does your comment have to to with independence’…everything…because that is the number one reason most who are lecturing others’ use of language on here cite repeatedly ‘this isn’t good for independence’, this doesn’t ‘look good on Wings’ et al as their reason for objecting to ‘words ah don’t like tae hear inside ma ain heid’.

      It’s not for you to decide and even know whether a swear word will ‘put someone off’ and if that is what ‘puts them off’, let me assure you…they were never fucking on!

      As for false equivalences Mandandboy…neat tactic, but intellectually poor. Just because I pepper my language with expletives…doesn’t mean I’m out swearing at the polis, if I’m swearing or utilising language that best fits the point I’m making, that’s up to me.

      There is no ban on swearing on Wings and no one moderates this, so why the fuck do people think it’s okay for them to moderate other posters’ language on here. Don’t ‘like’ it, which is entirely different and if I may say a more ‘honest’ opinion because people have been raised to believe it’s ‘bad to swear’ etc then fine, scroll on. But don’t make out with tired old tropes that it shows ‘a lack of education’ or ‘lack of intelligence’ et al, again you wouldn’t open yer fucking mouth to spout that pish to the Rev?

      Get over it. People swear. End.

      Stephen Fry…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM&feature=youtu.be

    410. manandboy says:

      David Cameron, remember him? He is like a guy casually throwing his fag end out his car window, only to start a fire which consumes half the State.
      These Tories are certainly the natural party of government all right! They are certainly good at running a country – into the ground!

    411. Terence callachan says:

      In an independent Scotland we can have a referendum as often as we like
      Without having to ask permission from England
      We can have a referendum any time we want on things like

      Do we we wish to continue being in EU
      Do we wish to be in NATO
      Shall we return the trident missiles and nuclear warheads and nuclear submarines to England
      Shall we allow people from England to travel freely across the border to Scotland without a visa
      Shall we grant Scottish citizenship if they want it ,automatically ,to all English Welsh and Irish people living in Scotland
      Shall we extend Scottish citizenship to all EU citizens living in Scotland ,automatically, if they
      want it
      Shall we increase spending on NHS ,education, housing, and shall we increase spending to dramatically reduce the number of people stricken by alcohol dependency and gambling and drug addiction
      Shall we end austerity
      Shall we nationalise the railways
      Shall we end private care homes and residential homes and nationalise it as part of NHS so people don’t have to sell their homes to pay for their care
      Shall we reduce the pension age for men and women

      It will be wonderful having a society that cares about everyone but cares especially about those who have the least and those who need the most help a society that says it will not reward greed and uncaring attitudes, it’s not socialism it’s simple decency.
      I’m lucky I have a lot, I’m happy to pay more tax, I’m certain there are many many others like me, the one thing we object to is our tax going to those already wealthy .
      Giving child benefit to rich people is ludicrous
      Giving winter heating allowances to rich people is ludicrous
      Giving winter heating allowances to people who live in Spain or Italy etc all year round, just because they get a state pension, is ludicrous
      With a smaller population than uk population ,Scotland can make big improvements and eradicate British wastefulness

    412. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      K1,What a fucking wonderful post!

    413. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @K1 –

      Hear fuckin hear.

      😉

    414. Rock says:

      Elizabeth Stanley says:
      9 December, 2018 at 10:12 pm

      “Also,why should I answer you just because you demand it?”

      I make no demands, but I know you wouldn’t dare answer because you are a pretendy “independence supporter” who pops up to dupe gullible independence supporters whenever the question of the right for English settlers in Scotland to vote in an independence referendum on Scottish independence from England comes up.

    415. Lenny Hartley says:

      Misreporting UK tonight says that the ECJ Judgement tomorrow is to find out if the Parliament can put Brexit on Hold! Think revoked is the word they were looking for. More fake news from the BBC

    416. Rock says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      9 December, 2018 at 10:05 pm

      “@Robert Peffers,

      why does Norway`s electoral system make me a racist,

      totally baffled.”

      Talking about racists:

      Robert Peffers (18th February 2017 – “Here comes a surprise”)

      “The fact is that a little common sense will show that the immigrants mainly come to find work. Elderly English cadgers excepted, these who sell up expensive city homes for cheaper, or better, Scottish accommodation, free bus passes and the benefits of such as free prescriptions, care at home and cheaper Council Tax. These are often the ones most prone to call scots subsidy junkies.”

    417. Rock says:

      K1 says:
      9 December, 2018 at 10:40 pm

      “There is no ban on swearing on Wings and no one moderates this, so why the fuck do people think it’s okay for them to moderate other posters’ language on here.”

      Elizabeth Stanley says:
      9 December, 2018 at 10:47 pm

      “K1,What a fucking wonderful post!”

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      9 December, 2018 at 10:53 pm

      “@K1 –

      Hear fuckin hear.”

      The usual suspects wanting to drag down the best blog in the country (UK) into the gutter with them.

    418. Dr Jim says:

      Scottish swearing is punctuation

    419. galamcennalath says:

      manandboy says:

      David Cameron, remember him?

      Aye, the one that Gordon Brown’s ego allowed to become PM.

      2010 election. Tories got 306. Lab + LibDem got 315 together.

      Nick Clegg’s preferred outcome was to have a coalition with Labour but the condition was Brown was not to be PM. He refused to step aside. Thus Cameron became PM. The LibDems wanted PR voting and inexplicably screwed it up completely. And we are where we are.

      This sad episode in UK politics goes back three general elections ago.

    420. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Rock,what the hell are you talking about.

      Your pretendy two choices are rubbish & you know it.

      If you hate me having a vote go change the electoral legislation law & give us all a break reading your whining posts.

      I will vote for Scottish independence despite your desire to prevent me.

      Why are you hiding your real name? Are you English/Chinese/American?Do you live in Alaska? Do you vote for Trump?

      I can ask very stupid questions too.

      Trump?

    421. manandboy says:

      It would appear the Government has a decision to make over EU citizens who work in the Civil Service.

      And what about members of the Tory-UDA-DUP Party who are EU citizens?

      Anyone who is waiting for things to return to ‘normal’ in the UK is destined to be disappointed for the very foreseeable future.

    422. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      After hours of English football on BBC last night I find myself waiting tonight after hours of English football again to watch my Scottish football at nearly midnight.

      Why do we put up with this?

    423. Ian Brotherhood says:

      FFS, yon fekker’s so fuckin easy tae wind-up, it’s no fuckin real man…seriously!

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    424. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 10.40
      Well said K1… You nailed the point with class and mair tae the point with grit…
      Fuck me I’m glad ye oan oor side… LOL

    425. Cubby says:

      Rockshit

      Rockshit is having his nightly dump on Wings. Rockshit fair stinks the place out.

    426. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s something which may be of interest to those engaged in the ‘bad language’ debate…

      😉

      https://twitter.com/buchanan_jamie/status/1071895416952758275

    427. jfngw says:

      It’s understandable why the LibDemm’s can’t understand SNP commitment to independence. After all this is the party that dropped all opposition to tuition fees for a couple of limos and being able to stand shoulder to shoulder with David Cameron.

      In 2014 all they were interested in was what was the SNP plan B, now they complain that they should not even contemplate a Brexit plan B. They are already at eleven on the Mundell integrity scale.

    428. Breeks says:

      8:00am Tomorrow for the ECJ.

      Come on Europe. Don’t let us down.

    429. mr thms says:

      Lenny Hartley @ 10:55 pm

      “Misreporting UK tonight says that the ECJ Judgement tomorrow is to find out if the Parliament can put Brexit on Hold! Think revoked is the word they were looking for. More fake news from the BBC”

      The PM sent a letter to the European Council invoking Article 50.

      Not sure if it will be Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn that sends a second letter to the European Council to revoke the first letter.

      But, it would put Brexit on hold under Article 50 –

      “3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.”

      I have thought for a long, long time Article 50 was an integral part of the Treaty of Lisbon’s processes for the internal enlargement of the European Union.

      Thinking ahead, delaying Brexit until after the elections for the European Parliament would mean the elections taking place in the UK!

      (The elections for the European Parliament begins on Thursday, 23 May 2019 and ends on Sunday, 26 May 2019?)

      We will soon find out.

      Should part 3 transpire, what does parts four and five hold in store?

      “4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

      A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

      5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.”

      Part 4 is obvious.

      Part 5 less so, but it is the most interesting.

    430. manandboy says:

      “The ‘F’ word is like rust on a blog like this.

      It is unsightly, as well as weakening the standing and credibility of both the blog and the Independence movement.

      Its use never improves either explanation or information and is a barrier therefore to understanding.

      Bad enough when spoken, it is self-defeating in print.

      If Scotland can only express its desire for Independence through the use of the ‘F’ word, then it’s a sad day.”

      Contrary to what others mistakenly think, this is what I actually said in the first instance.

      Later, I said, “I stand by my position on the negative impact of the ‘F’ word on Wings.”

      It remains my opinion that Wings’ appeal will not be enhanced by the regular use of the ‘F’ word.
      I have little interest in any correlation between its use and intelligence, and have not made any reference to that whatsoever.
      Nor am I ‘lecturing’ anyone on any subject, nor criticising anyone who uses the ‘F’ word, though I do understand that criticism may be felt as implied. Insofar as that is the case, then apology given.

      I cannot defend what I have not written, but what I have written, out of concern for the blog, is that IN MY VIEW the blog will not be enhanced by the introduction of the regular use of the ‘F’ word. That’s all I’m saying.

    431. Gary45% says:

      Just noticed on Ya Tube “channel 4s” real brexit bollocks.
      Channel4, once a true leader in alternative broadcasting, now just the same old shite as the rest.
      Indy Scotland TV, surely we can do MUCH BETTER than this.

      Rock, either jump on the life raft, or just go, its up to you, the hand is reaching out, but hey if you cant open your eyes? its a long way down.

    432. Gary45% says:

      manandboy@11.55
      “The F word”,
      I agree the F word can sometimes be offensive but so is Falkirk, but not as bad as Fishcross(the city on the bend)
      You choose.
      Flibirtygiblits.

    433. OT

      Just played a country and western song backwards…. got my car back, got my wife back and my dog came home.

    434. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Donald,that really made me laugh.

      Hope you got your trousers back too.

    435. remo says:

      @manandboy

      Did you miss the bit about sweary people being seen as more honest and trustworthy by others? A new reader on this site is likely to trust the opinion of someone who does a bit of swearing rather than a mealy-mouthed individual who as my granda said “would not say shite for a shilling”.

    436. sandy says:

      The use of the “F” word in an offensive manner is, I believe, punishable by law, breach of the peace or something like that.

    437. manandboy says:

      Shite.

    438. Patrick Roden says:

      @ Jason Moothpiece

      Yes and one of the journalists who have been exposed as a member of this shady group, is none other than…

      Crazy…

      Davy…

      Leask!!!

      I’m sure Labour Politicians will be so incensed about these ‘dark forces’ that they will boycott the Herald from now on?

      Unless they have been part of these dark forces?

    439. Liz g says:

      manandboy @ 11.55
      In so far as having and holding an opinion… we are on the same page.
      Which is why I said what I did!
      I am actually ambivalent around that word or any other’s.
      I also understand that some don’t like it.
      But for me the matter is simply that ….
      In an adult environment,no one should be … shall we say ” indicating ” how other adults should speak/post!
      There is (as K1 demonstrated) a school of thought that such expressions are actually expanding vocabulary!
      You needn’t accept that.. Of course you needn’t..
      But surly you can accept that the freedom of speech is not a concept adopted to protect approved speech,but rather to protect speech that is disapproved of?
      In which case,I’m sure you will agree…we should all just post in our own way,and keep our eyes on the prize
      It was decent of you to apologise to anyone who may have felt criticised,and to point out that it was not your intent to do so!
      I also apologise if you felt attacked,and like yourself still hold my position on the matter..
      Now that everyone has had their say… I propose we all move on to the real reason we are all here..
      And caution that we are all careful not to be bated over the issue!
      What say you manandboy?

    440. Ian Brotherhood says:

      No matter how ‘objectionable’ the language used by me and others may be to some fellow travellers, at least our movement has never ever resorted to carrying replicas of gallows on our marches.

      If the revamped UKIP can gain traction in England it’ll certainly make its presence felt in Scotland. That’s the real ‘enemy’.

      So, let’s get a bit of perspective, eh?

    441. Proud Cybernat says:

      Swearing is simply Scottish emojis.

    442. Chick McGregor says:

      A rare typo by Chris. Should have been ‘Jackson Carlaw Bollox’.

    443. yesindyref2 says:

      If anyone’s interested, I am indeed yesindyref2 and I was born around September 2014, though I have had previous lives.

      I am just over 4 years old, but that makes ne Methuselah in terms of the lifetimes of midgies. I bite and I suck up your blood, even though I’m a male midgie – why should the women have all the fun, eh?

    444. sandy says:

      Manandboy @ 12.28 am.

      Wonderful typical bar-room response.

    445. Thepnr says:

      You can’t lower the tone of debate on Wings by using words that others may object to. The tone of the debate on Wings is made up of many voices and all have the right to make theirs heard, at least that’s how I’ve always saw it.

      Some are unemployed and others might be company directors, some are religious and some are humanists, some are rich and some are poor, some have PHD’s and others without a standard grade to their name etc etc etc.

      If there is a tone then it is made from all these many voices none of whom are right or wrong. That’s a good thing surely and I think the beauty of Wings and it’s comment policy.

      Abuse though is not debate no matter the words used as abuse can come in many forms and doesn’t need swear words and no one should get the two mixed up.

      Abuse is the antithesis of debate and should always be condemned.

    446. sandy says:

      Liz @ 12.32 am.

      Who decides to approve or disapprove any word? We have been inundated with words which, when used, can feel the heavy hand of the law.
      Now, if the powers that be should disapprove the “F” word, many, including a few on this blog, would be at a loss.
      End of.
      Anyway, I agree with what you say & that this blog should be used solely for discussion/debate on & for the future of our Country, not individual petty/trivial differences.

      Certainly, if some posters decide to be obnoxious, it’s human nature to object & these persons should expect to be pulled up & blithely be put in their place.

    447. K1 says:

      I agree that ‘abuse’ is ‘the antithesis of debate’, and with that in mind, could it be fairly stated that Rock’s input on here is in fact a form of abuse?

      He copy’s people’s comments from months and years ago and then deploy’s them on current threads, out of there original context. This is his way of ‘attacking’ any particular poster that he ‘deems’ beneath him. He regularly ‘assaults’ us all wi these copied and pasted posts, he is not debating, he is berating…is berating others for their comments in the past and continually ‘bringing them up’ debating?

      So yes he’s a ‘better than thou’ type as he thinks ‘not swearing’ means he’s not reducing this blog to the gutter.

      I take issue with this because contrarily I think that Rock’s contribution on these threads is the very definition of gutter scraping dredging shit that fulfils his insecure need to ‘be right’ and to ‘other’ everyone else in the way that he feels ‘othered’ by those he complains are in some sort of ‘group’ that ‘he feels not part of’.

      Not because he isn’t, but because he wants to be viewed as ‘above’ others. So his tone and content is hectoring, getting at, oneupmanship and he gives not one fuck how ‘that’ looks on this site:

      He abuses this site to fulfil his need for revenge on those he has deemed so unimportant that he constantly refers to their previous comments as a means of reducing their importance?

      That’s pretty screwed up stuff right there. And it is an abuse of others comments from the past to use their words to continually ‘attack’ them. And then he has the fuckin’ cheek to criticise any other posters on here for reaching genuine consensus…jealous much?

    448. yesindyref2 says:

      Rock’s sole purpose does seem to be to abuse other posters, but the irony is that by attacking people who at times have been attacking each other, those people kind of unite in a common purpose again and – eh voila – Rock is the perfect ambassador of peace!

    449. sandy says:

      Slightly OT but seeing as it’s quiet now, here is a little story alluding to the above.

      Some years ago in my youthful days (1960s), whilst playing in an amateur football match, one of my church-going team-mates was pulled up for rather crudely fouling an opponent. On being warned by the somewhat strict referee, he utter the word, “fiddlesticks” & was promptly booked. On asking why, he was told, “use of abusive language”. “Why, he pleaded, I didn’t swear”. “No, said the ref, but I know what you meant”.
      In the report in the local paper, the headline read, “Church elder booked for swearing at referee”.

      Ah, those were the days.

    450. K1 says:

      No one on planet earth is going to stop swearing. Ffs. Swearing has utility too…it’s well understood it is better to swear when you hit your finger or thumb wi a hammer for example than to somewhat suppress the urge or choose a ‘nice’ word to replace the swear word with.

      Pain tolerance is increased when this happens. There has been quite a bit of work done on the subject, swearing has been around for as long as we have as a species. Unfortunately so has propaganda in the form of religion, politics and in general population control through our media. It is not ‘inherently bad’ to swear and those who think it is have some pretty powerful conditioning at play.

      https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/why-swearing-makes-you-stronger

    451. yesindyref2 says:

      Your posting shows that you are the opposite of being a nice person and that you are incapable of rational thought, your intentions are not genuine, many people share your posting account and you manage several, your visage when gazed upon would turn anyone to stone, several breweries and distilleries would go out of business if you ceased to exist, likewise all the cake and chocolate shops in your area, your sexual proclivities would raise eyebrows in even the most liberal society and the animals would head for the hills.

      You are incapable of holding a debate with a snail, your speed of thought is that of a dead sloth, many people rejoiced when you slunk away from your previous residence with your actual tail between your legs and your new neighbours promptly vacated their houses and flats because of the intensely disgusting odour that followed your every footstep, the pigs have complained that your manners are compared to theirs, and in short I am surprised you even get up every day for an hour or two in your sublimely lazy existence, which is to be thanked as at least it limits the length of time people have to put up with you.

      Jings, I’m out of practice 🙁

    452. yesindyref2 says:

      That wasn’t addressed to anyone by the way 🙂 🙂

    453. yesindyref2 says:

      Personally I think fuck off is short and to the point, and way nicer. It’s actually an instruction to go and have some fun, what’s not to like about that?

    454. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 1.26
      After having “some” experience of one..
      Let me tell ya..
      You have Rock down to a T.
      He is a Narcissist and as such cannot conceive of being wrong.
      Paid to Troll or just wanting to is neither here nor there with them, the only truth is “their “ truth and they will swear upside down and in and out black is white and white is black.
      In fact Narcissistic Personality Disorder would render someone a perfect recruit for the Brit Nats, but who knows.. or really cares?

      He is finding some sort of hit being here ( it’s called supply and is addictive to the Narc) so he will be compelled to keep at it.
      On the upside… we don’t have to worry that “ that’s what’s coming home to us” so in reality,we are the ones in actual control.

      Once you see him through that prism.. the Gaslighting just doesn’t work …
      I do have a crumb of pity because it’s a compulsion… but it comes and goes.. I wouldn’t trust it!!

    455. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 2.01
      Well … I’ll have you know that Sloths are wonderful animals and are by the way
      As cute as Fuck..
      So can ye just keep yer Slothism tae yer self
      Thank You!!!!!!!!

    456. yesindyref2 says:

      @Liz g
      Did I fucking say sloths weren’t fucking wonderful, well, did I fuck?

      LOL 🙂

    457. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @
      You in-fucking-ferd it you fucker…. LO even Ler.

      Let me be clear Sloths are precious…
      They are part of our family of mammals..
      I will never agree to Sloths….

      I can’t keep this up… LOL
      Good night Yesindyref2…

    458. yesindyref2 says:

      Night Liz g, not long till 8am.

    459. manandboy says:

      When proper diagnosis of the UK’s Brexit disease requires a stethoscope to listen to the heart and lungs, Theresa May carries a pair of plastic binoculars.

      Meanwhile, some diagnosis on the French reveals that the underlying causes of the disease is Europe wide.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/09/fear-cultural-loss-fuelling-anger-with-elites-across-europe

      “The French protests show, though, that the relationship between the economic and the cultural is more complicated. The immediate cause of the protests was economic – fuel tax rises. It was one expression of the anger at the erosion of working-class living standards endured across Europe.

      What worries people, though, is not just stagnating wages or cuts to public services, but their loss of power in influencing policies that shape their lives. Material hardship is viewed through the prism of political voicelessness.”

    460. Iain says:

      Indy must be close, judging by the activity levels of the trolls.

    461. manandboy says:

      After two and a half years of Maybotics on Brexit, it may appear that we are, this week, close to the finish. But in fact, in the style of Grand National starts, we are only getting into position for the start of a political, economic and cultural ordeal, involving many difficult fences, over which there are bound to be fallers, including the Union, as well as the political parties at the core of the British Empire.

      “One thing, though, seems obvious: that we are in the midst of things we have only just begun to understand, and the deafening noise (from Westminster) is only the start.” John Harris in the Guardian. (Brackets mine)

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/10/brexit-divides-tensions-political-vote

    462. Shinty says:

      re: ‘swearie words’ – usually the first words you learn in a foreign language (outwith the class room, obviously).

    463. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Shinty @ 7.17am

      Good point sir. I can still hear, when I think back, Ukranian Sergei Baltacha desribing, in English, what it was like to mark Diego Maradona.

      Every second word seemed to being with f, c or b – a priceless lesson in English as a second language. But, those of us listening knew exactly what Sergei meant.

    464. Socrates MacSporran says:

      A report in The Guardian that, should the Maybot totally malfunction, Boris Johnson, Esther McVey and Dominic Raab would all be candidates to succeed her.

      FFS, that’s like Dopey, Bashful and Sneezy each trying to usurp Snow White’s Wicked Stepmother.

    465. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, and there’s a large full capacity crowd in Court 1, and you could hear a pin drop.

      WHO DID THAT?

    466. wull2 says:

      I spent over 30 years in a factory environment, although I don’t use the F word often, I am so used to it from certain people, I just take it that is the way they speak.

    467. Shinty says:

      Let’s not forget, in Weegie it is often a compliment.
      ie. How’s it going ya old f, b or c.

    468. Kangaroo says:

      Socrates @7:40am

      Loved the Snow White analogy split my sides.
      Looking forward To The A50 decision

    469. Golfnut says:

      @ Socrates MacSporran.

      The bar is obviously set very low on great British functional intelligence when Johnson, McVey and Rabb are considered for PM.

    470. Ghillie says:

      ECJ UK can revoke Article 50 =)

    471. Breeks says:

      Waiting to hear about ECJ, but meantime, with regards swearing, I’m ambivalent, but I would say routine profanity loses its potency, where the impact of a swear word from a non-potty mouth can be profound.

      Imagine Jimmy Osmond not saying “Gosh” but the F word instead.

    472. yesindyref2 says:

      Hahahahahahaha

      hahahahahaha

      Ha!

    473. Breeks says:

      Yeayyyyyyyy!

      Now, about that UK Parliamentary Sovereignty thing….

    474. yesindyref2 says:

      Nope, Nana beat me 😎
      Couldn’t have been done by a better person 🙂

    475. Nana says:

      Statement from @GoodLawProject on the Article 50 case.

      https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1072039929415376896

    476. yesindyref2 says:

      Oops, and Ghillie. Shame on you Ghillie!

      Well, that’s another step forward. A case sent by the Court of Sessions to the ECJ, which the UKSC decided it had no competence to hear an appeal over.

    477. Nana says:

      https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/12/crisis-deepens-for-tyrannical-theresa.html

      On this week’s Full Scottish, Corri Wilson’s guests are Jim Todd, Provost of East Ayrshire, Councillor Brian McGinley from South Ayrshire Council and Disability Rights campaigner, Jamie Szymkowiak.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykhxHbLy0w8&feature=youtu.be

      http://ruthwishart.scot/blog/indyref2-a-tipping-point

      https://www.alynsmith.eu/scotland_in_europe_update_7th_december_2018

    478. Nana says:

      https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/12/07/scotland-really-is-another-country/

      https://newsnet.scot/news-analysis/is-eyemouth-facing-a-brexit-employment-tsumani/

      What have a drum, a sign and a door knocker got to do with land ownership in Scotland? All is revealed in the next film in our Collecting the Present series, which explores objects that document community buyouts in the islands of Eigg and Ulva.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70tc1l2o7dc&feature=youtu.be

      59% Of Scots would back independence if there’s a no deal brexit.
      https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/1111549382303048/?t=4

    479. Nana says:

      https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/12/08/environment-agency-pollution-inspections-cuts-rivers/

      Motability charity boss to go after extra bonus revealed
      http://archive.is/4YKjY

      Corbyn is largely right about May’s deal, but his alternative plan is just total fantasy. A solid bar cast of purest Unobtainium.
      https://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/status/1070859040660443136

      https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/brexit-is-the-final-tory-implosion-now-just-days-away/

    480. Nana says:

      https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/1207/1015924-brexit-backstop-uk/

      Analysis and annotation of the political declaration on the UK/EU future relationsh
      Very long read
      http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com/2018/12/to-boldly-go-euuk-future-relationship.html

      https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/integrity-initiative-look-deep-state

      Heading down to No 10 to do a turn in the 10pm & 11pm bulletins on the eve of a huge week. Told decision on whether to press ahead with #meaningfulvote will be made tomorrow night by May & chief whip…. various plan Bs being worked up 1/
      https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1071875280476749831

    481. Luigi says:

      Shit.

      Fan.

      Splat!

      And so it begins. One of the maddest weeks in politics ever experienced, folks. Man, what a time to be alive. 🙂

    482. yesindyref2 says:

      There will be wailing and Nash-ing of teeth in the office of the Advocate General for Scotland, Keen won’t be so keen any more to challenge Scotland, Scots or our elected Government.

      Though he’ll probably try 🙂

      Bring it on!

    483. Nana says:

      https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-can-withdraw-brexit-notification-ecj-rules-2/

      One of worst crimes against humanity of our time: #China has detained over a million #Muslims in concentration camps — and no one is doing anything about it even Muslim countries tho @amnesty & @hrw have raised alarm
      https://twitter.com/RonanLTynan/status/1071784586340900866

      https://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/uk-support-allows-israel-commit-crimes-impunity-734227517

    484. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh, and Scots Courts and Scots Law …

    485. Macart says:

      @Nana

      Nearly there Nana. 😉 (winky thing)

    486. Luigi says:

      Toodle the Noo not sounding so smug on BBC this morning. Sounded like he was labouring to spit out the news.

      Don’t worry, Brian, a big week ahead – it can only get worse. 🙂

    487. Breeks says:

      Speaking of swear words…. over to our outside broadcast with Theresa May’s breakfast at No 10….

    488. Macart says:

      Oh, and by the way? Mibbies hold onto something. This week’s going to get bumpy. Also? Stock up on snackage. 🙂

    489. Ghillie says:

      Looks like a new herd of cats has just be let loose in Westminster 🙂

      Thank you our Scottish MSPs, MPs and MEPs, our legal representatives and our own Scottish Court of Session and the ECJ 🙂

    490. Breeks says:


      yesindyref2 says:
      10 December, 2018 at 8:20 am

      Keen won’t be so keen any more to challenge Scotland, Scots or our elected Government.

      Though he’ll probably try ?….

      I rather hope this will mark the watershed whereafter we start challenging him.



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