The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


The Slightly Tubby Quiz Of The Year

Posted on December 29, 2015 by

It’s time to find out just how alert you really are, readers.

jcarr

The answers to each of the 24 questions below about Scottish politics in 2015 can be found in Wings articles. But no Googling – we’ll know.

[WpProQuiz 1]

Print Friendly

    567 to “The Slightly Tubby Quiz Of The Year”

    1. David Martin says:

      45%? Quite appropriate really. Shall do better next time.

    2. Marcia says:

      Only half alert this year as I only got 12 out of 24.

    3. Johnny says:

      62.5% Not quite alert enough, though I found myself doing a lot better with questions from April/May onwards.

    4. Anne Bruce says:

      Just over 58%.

      My excuse is I don’t read/watch BUM.

      Thankfully.

    5. Jake Gittes says:

      54% Weak start, but stronger finish.

    6. jim watson says:

      I got more right than Kezia did on Universally Challenged…

    7. Tony Little says:

      Polled 50%. I was obviously not paying sufficient attention!

      Have a good 2016 everyone

    8. Cuilean says:

      54.7%.

      I’ll take that.

    9. No no no...Yes says:

      50% Could do better!

    10. Anagach says:

      Some of the questions had too many of the all too usual suspects as answers…thats my excuse for not doing better.

    11. Wulls says:

      i didn’t do very well 🙂
      Mainly because I didn’t remember which honking troll was responsible for which, toys out the pram, outburst of verbal diaorea…….
      When they all run into one stream it’s difficult to seperate it into identifyable lumps.

    12. carjamtic says:

      FFS….33%…..my only defence….reading the questions..I was hot under the collar,fist clenching,teeth grinding,over confident,under prepared,delusional….let the WoS site down,let rev down,worse let myself down,need a pint,slange ;-))

    13. Andrew Davidson says:

      Surprisingly tough. 13/24 for me.

      So much toothache inducing reminders in those questions though. What a year for unionist drivel it has been.

    14. Dougie Bee says:

      Bottom of the class for me..a piss poor 33.33%

      Old age don’t come on its own

      but still SNP X 2 in May…….

    15. starlaw says:

      29 Gave up on media years ago.

    16. Effijy says:

      I got most of the questions right but the scary thing is that without the Rev’s web pages, I’d be lucky to get 2 correct answers.

      Thanks for all your hard work Rev.
      Investigative Journalist of the Year, Decade and 21st Century!

      Shouldn’t you get some form of funding from Education Scotland?

    17. Dan Huil says:

      Jings, only 41%. But I hope you all realize I was being cool and sarcastic in my answers.

    18. chic thomson says:

      Great fun, thanks Stu.

    19. Kenzie says:

      Did anyone else notice that on Universally Challenged they had Nicky Campbell as en ex-Aberdeen alumni? Shome Mishtake Shurely, Miss Monneypenny. Wasn’t Campbell a graduate of St Andrews? Don’t tell me the BBC is reduced to this sort of barrel-scraping…..not that it did any good.

    20. katherine hamilton says:

      I got 54.17%. Suits me. I reckon a poll would show that as the pro indy number at the moment. And rising!
      Happy New Year.

    21. Capella says:

      Like the leaderboard!
      I got 13 right which was 54% or an overwhelming majority as the Unionists would say.

    22. scottieDog says:

      50% – about where we are at!

    23. Andy MacNicol says:

      I thought my 62.5% was rubbish……until I looked at the rest of you. Chuffed!

    24. handclapping says:

      You’d have thought Jim Murphy would have been more scunnered at Scottish politics than to be taking a quiz on the WoS view but credit to the guy for 23 out of 24 right. 😀

    25. orraloon says:

      Jim Murphy got 96%. Very good.

      I only got 64.5%, which I don’t quite understand. Must have got one question half right?

    26. Effijy says:

      The First Minister’s petition to stop bombing innocents in Syria is still 144 signatures awaY from its 100,000 target.

      The numbers isn’t increasing now yet we are so close.

      We must show our support for Nicola, the Party, and the people of Syria.

      If you have a Granny in Grenada, or an Uncle in Ulaanbaatar who hasn’t yet signed this petition, Please send them the Link below!

      http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria?mc_cid=86a2a6caac&mc_eid=2ca6f3edb9

    27. Smallaxe says:

      33.33%, but Kezia says that’s 99% in real terms!

      I’ll get ma coat.

    28. donnywho says:

      Yup 50% for me… scraped a pass. Very difficult as almost every answer could be true… difficult to separate the chaff from the guff as that is all you get from Unionistas.
      Will try harder promise.

    29. X_Sticks says:

      54.17% Just scraped home there. Not too bad for my addled memory!

    30. Heather McLean says:

      58.33% 14 out of 24 better than I expected!! Lol!

    31. George S Gordon says:

      Oh dear, 45.83%. As someone with a scientific background, I’m used to working things out from principles and the Yoons don’t have any, so that’s my excuse.

    32. Lanarkist says:

      62.5%.

      My only excuse is only having had one coffee so far.

      Thanks Stu, great quiz!

    33. Glamaig says:

      66.7%, despite being an avid student I have a really crap memory so surprised to get as much as that.

    34. lumilumi says:

      14/24 (=58.33%)

      Some of those questions were tough, those yoon zoomers are so intrchangeable…

    35. mr thms says:

      I’m happy with 66.67%.. 16/24

    36. bugger (the Panda) says:

      48%

      Started crap and picked up towards end and romped in.

      Naw, I was shite, but only 52% shite

    37. Ishbel says:

      45.8% – need to do better… Thanks Rev, I really need to pay more attention!

    38. David Smith says:

      50%er! Only half alert but not bad for a half-dead SAD sufferer! ?

    39. heedtracker says:

      2 right/answered. Dugdale, Aberdeen.

      Latest SLab leader didn’t exactly set the university challenge show heather alight last night.

      Whats Uni of Aberdeen teaching their law under grads anyway and should we expect more, from the latest SLabour boss?

      Its worth watching iplayer of Paxo and his Dugdale sum up CV of UKOK greatness last night , who the UKOK propaganda machine keep explaining how Kezia’s all new and exciting SLab, a fresh SLabface, a new SLab broom, she’s been a UKOK SLabour unionista apparatchik for over a decade at least.

      And probably you wouldn’t pick nice but dim Kezia for your quizz team either.

    40. galamcennalath says:

      “You have reached 10 of 24 points, (41.67%)”

      January seems a long long time ago 🙁

    41. Scott says:

      33.33%Very poor show but it won’t stop me voting SNP 2at the election.
      Thanks to you Rev as without you I would have got none right.

    42. Thepnr says:

      Apologies folks for O/T so soon. Stuck this on the the last thread where it will now be little read.

      I’m only writing this because I think it is very important.

      We can moan as much as we like about the pathetic attempts of the media in Scotland to shape peoples thoughts and minds. Brainwashing and propaganda is the real word. We need more presence.

      The reality is we have a minuscule media presence and it’s mainly here on the internet, social media and word of mouth.

      We do have something though that is totally different and extraordinary compared with the SCUM. Due to the referendum we now have live broadcasting where we can interact and ask questions of global leaders.

      Who’d have thought Yanis Vorooufakis or Noam Chomsky would find themselves being interviewed LIVE by ordinary Scots like us for ordinary Scots like us to listen to if we so choose!

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/independence-live-xmas-crowdfunder#/

      Those that can’t afford anymore please ignore this post, there are though those that can afford a bit extra and it is you who I am asking to dig deeper to support our fledgling media. Sean Connery mibbee 🙂

      We the ordinary punter have all dug as deep as we could the last few years. Many times we expressed disgust at the old media and wished for something new.

      Well you got it in the shape of Independence Live, now support it or it will surely be gone before the job is done.

      You won’t get another chance, this is it. We care, if you can afford it then put a bit in the kitty, it will make a difference.

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/independence-live-xmas-crowdfunder#/

    43. Macart says:

      14 out of 24.

      Same story of poor start, better finish.

      Has it really been so many events? Seems to have flown in this year.

    44. GallusEffie says:

      Woo-hoo! 75% I’m a Wings Beast!

    45. Bevrijdingsdag says:

      75% well chuffed.

    46. Bob Mack says:

      Found I could have answered “all the above” to nearly every question.

    47. Golfnut says:

      62.5% help ma boab, got some homework to do.

    48. Lollysmum says:

      45% for me. Not too bad for an indy supporter in England. Will do better next time-promise 🙂

    49. Rob says:

      Fractionally better than 45%. My big (newbie) mistake was being slow to the party – WOS.

    50. Rob James says:

      A surprisingly high 54.17% (13/24) considering there were only two answers that I was sure about. I would have preferred an option ‘e’ – all of the above, but the old close your eyes and stick the pin in seemed to work for me.

    51. Arabs for Independence says:

      58.33% which is good given that none of the questions were in Dundonian

    52. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Quite pleased with 13/24. A 50% +1 majority. Sufficient for independence.
      (Or 53.7% in real money.)

    53. James Brownell says:

      54.17%, not too shabby. Did take 36 minutes though, took a shower inbetween the questions, honest! World’s worst cheat otherwise… 😉

    54. Hugh McBrien says:

      “Show Leaderboard – No.1 Jim Murphy” – getting all but one – Priceless!

    55. Lollysmum says:

      O/T
      Thanks for the nudge Thepnr 🙂

      Yet another reminder Orkney 4 still need £6724 to get them to £208k target. Chip in if you can. We’ll never hear the last of it if we don’t get them over the line.

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/funders

    56. Clootie says:

      Using the Jackie Baillie financial calculator I scored 138 percent.

    57. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Actually 54.17% in real money.
      Temporary brain slip…

      8=(

    58. Rick Guthrie says:

      Have a better 2016 than I did here.

    59. Proud Cybernat says:

      O%.

      Only joking. 13/24 (54.17%).

      Good fun, Rev.

    60. rongorongo says:

      Most fiendishly tricky question: which, out of Murphy; Bailie; Carmichael or Mundell, apparently has redeeming qualities?

    61. Thepnr says:

      Well just shows my ignorance. 12 from 24, must admit I’m very disappointed but not at much as I really am at putting my appeal to help grow and make our OWN media prosper.

      I was going to say sorry for spoiling the thread but I’m not.

    62. ClanDonald says:

      Only 58.3%. Do I have to give my alert reader badge back?

    63. CanWeHAveOurDemocracyBack says:

      I was quite pleased with my 58%. I’m much more aware of the truth than I would be if I only had the MSM/BBC liars as a source of information

      By the way, the Daily Mail is, I’m told, also running a political quiz of the year.

      There are 28 questions but intriguingly, only four answers…

      1)Illegal Immigrants
      2)Benefits Scroungers
      3)Benefit Scrounging Braveheart quoting, drunken, “Scotch” Cybernats
      4)Bloody Foreigners

    64. Old Dotch says:

      62.5%. That’s 17.5 % more than David Martin and he calls himself a yesman.

    65. Ben Donald says:

      70.83%
      More luck than alertness, possibly.

    66. grahamlive says:

      62.5%, 15/24. Reasonably happy with that. Though a “could do better” is called for I think.

    67. Esteban Fuertes says:

      54.17% – a decisive result which settles the quiz of the year issue for at least a generation (or next year’s quiz, which ever is sooner).

    68. Takeourblueback says:

      Dissapointing 71% – some I had to guess …. #NoShit!

    69. Hugh Kirk says:

      45%, not bad for sheer guess work.

    70. sometimesoon says:

      Got a whopping 50%. I’m surprised at how much mince the unionists produced over the year. Truly awful bile.

    71. louis.b.argyll says:

      Great Quiz Rev, thankyou.
      50% wrong, but hey, 50% right.

      Must do better at knowing which lie was which.

      Would have been easier but for the SNP being a fair and trusted political party, and therefore forcing it’s opponents to lie.

    72. bjsalba says:

      Only 33.33%. My excuse is that I prefer to remember policy and performance facts not which numpty (Slab/SLib-Dem/STory/MSM or BBC Churnalist – take your pick) spouted which fantasy notion.

      In fact only this morning I had to go and look up David Torrance to remind me which numpty he was. Ah! Yes! That one. I probably should make myself a quick reference list with their nadirs listed.

      I do, by the way enjoy Fantasy Fiction but that doesn’t pretend to be real.

    73. Hugh Barclay says:

      33% :-0 that’s bollocks but good fun.

    74. NiallD says:

      14/24. Pretty pleased with that, considering I was laughing loudly throughout at the comments and idiocy of the UKOK Zoomers.

      Great stuff Rev!

    75. Finlay says:

      Ya bugger, reading some of the correct answers I’m kicking myself!

    76. Thepnr says:

      The questions are true but loaded in that there may be another answer that you remember to be true.

      Just making excuses now for my poor showing.

    77. Socrates MacSporran says:

      41.67% – terrible result.

      I am sticking to fitba quizzes from now on. At least there, I know who the bad guys are.

    78. blackhack says:

      A poor showing of only 41%…..but some of the answers/statements could have been made by any of the braying unionists.

    79. HeehawBaws says:

      I must be one of the 50% who leave school unable to read.

    80. Neil Anderson says:

      A risible 50%. My only excuse is having to drown my sorrows after each breathtaking piece of Onionist b******t. Hic!

    81. Ken McColl says:

      Nine! Never mind ?

    82. potter says:

      87.5% Nae bad

    83. snode1965 says:

      70.83% well happy with that score! Although I seem to have serious long term memory issues.lol.
      Jim Murphy is leading with 95%….respect.:-)

    84. Karmanaut says:

      75%

      Quite pleased with that. Although I reckon it was the “who said what” type questions that lost me points. It’s hard to keep track of which zoomer said what nonsense.

    85. Ian Brotherhood says:

      41.67, so I’m making that 42…

      🙁

    86. Skooshbag says:

      10/24. My politics pop quiz game is off point

    87. steve says:

      75%…..say no more

    88. Lord Pug says:

      66.6%. I need to pay more attention.. Must do better.

    89. Thepnr says:

      Well done everybody scoring more than 50%.

      That is as much as I could achieve so you done a damn site better than me. Nice one.

    90. Craig MachAonghais says:

      45.83%…only excuse was that so many of the answers could have been all and any of them.?

    91. osakisushi says:

      50% – ashamed. Makes me understand why SNP folks being interviewed as careful not to call the opposition lying sods as remembering ‘facts’ is not an exact science.

      Okay, I was crap!

    92. Angry Weegie says:

      66.67%. I thought that was quite good till I saw all the class swots

    93. Suzanne says:

      Hmmm. 45.83% *picks out tasteful hair shirt*

      I blame my short term memory. That and usually being unable to distinguish between Yoons.

    94. Jimbo says:

      Only 50% correct I’m afraid. Just shows how little I absorb or pay heed to re anything the Unionists have to say.

    95. K1 says:

      62.5%, wisnae too bad, considering we wurny allowed tae revise. Is naebdy puting their name on the leaderboard?

      Put it on the last thread by mistake…doh.

    96. DENNIS says:

      Started of bad and fell away to fxck.

    97. Doug Daniel says:

      75%, I’m pretty chuffed with that. Was pretty close to giving the right answer to a couple more as well.

    98. Thepnr says:

      So far, so good. Good game, good fun.

      I felt the same, it’s not a game though is it? Ignorance is bliss for those that want to remain ignorant.

      If we are serious, then we have to up our game and rid Scotland of ignorance.

    99. Suzanne K says:

      70.83%! Only 7 questions incorrect in 2 minutes can’t be bad? 😉
      I’m left wondering which ones I got wrong now…

    100. Joemcg says:

      Leaderboard?! Good yin! 58.33% no bad. Enough to to win Indy 2 anyway!

    101. Richardinho says:

      Good quiz Rev, but why no snearing at foreign people or Jocky Thistle for that matter; isn’t this the BBC?

    102. Alison Rollo says:

      Pretty poor!! Just over 45% — did enjoy it though!! Many thanks Rev!!

    103. Paul says:

      50%. No bad considering I don’t pay any attention to the meeja these days!

    104. The Man in the Jar says:

      58% or 14/24 not as good as I would like. Best scores are from later in the year so I am putting it down to lack of mental storage space. There is a limit to how much bullshit a human brain can manage. Nothing at all to do with age!

    105. Patrick Roden says:

      Well I suppose 75% is not bad.

      …I wonder if Magnus Gardham has tried it?

    106. John Sm. says:

      58.33%.

      Would have been higher but for my shocking memory.

    107. Lenny Hartley says:

      41.67% poor but I was in Hospital for nearly six weeks and too ill to take in info for a while so not too bad.

    108. John Sm. says:

      58.33%.

      Would have been higher but for my shocking memory.

      😉

    109. MolliBlum says:

      Oh dear. Only 54%. Still — better than the indyref result, I guess.

    110. call me dave says:

      Less than 50%. 🙁 As the man said

      Because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
      We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
      But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know.

      And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.

    111. scunner says:

      Rattled through in under 2 mins – nae cheating.
      70.83% and 2 I got wrong after picking the right answer, swithered then changed my mind!

    112. Marie Clark says:

      Aye well, am away tae sit in the corner wae the dunces hat oan. 33%, dearie me.

      Mind you, us auld yins dinnae aye remember some o the crap.In fairness, I suppose some of the answers could have been all of the above.

      Right madam, intae the corner wi ye. Must try harder.

    113. kininvie says:

      I got 95% – but as I compiled it, it should have been 100%

    114. Jon D says:

      Good God… Only 54%

      Only one explanation…SNP BAD

    115. skozra says:

      I’m terrible at quizzes I admit but at least I know how to vote properly lol

    116. John H. says:

      45.8%. They all talk such nonsense it was hard to remember who said what.

    117. bookie from hell says:

      50%

      I’m estatic

    118. katsoft says:

      50% My only excuse. I was out the country for 3 months. Must do better lol

    119. Ian Grant says:

      Quite pleased with my 62.5%. I think that performance merits unblocking on Twitter! Excellent year on Wings especially the series on the Forth Bridge and on Magnus Gardham’s nonsense in the Herald. Will keep on reading in 2016, whether Twitter block continues or not.

    120. Cherry says:

      It appears I might be spending too much time on Wings!! I got 75% with 18/24 … great fun thanks Stu

    121. Thepnr says:

      kininvie says:

      “I got 95%” Yah bam 🙂 Cheating eh! lol

      Marie Clark

      “Aye well, am away tae sit in the corner wae the dunces hat oan. 33%”

      Well I’ll sit wie you Marie just ignore that bam that wrote the questions :). He’s no gonna beat us. That’s a fact!

    122. Petra says:

      Jings to hang and help ma boab ………. 45.83% Excuse (red face)! I haven’t slept since Sunday. Off to get some sleep now and recharge my batteries …….. short term memory.

    123. Almannysbunnet says:

      Only 50% and I changed my mind on one answer then again I guessed 3 correct answers so I suppose I got off light.

      OK for bonus points which Max Wall lookalike said:-
      “I didn’t get any questions wrong, although there were some serious tactics deployed in that regard as to who answered what.

    124. Skip_NC says:

      Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. I got 58.33% but I must point out a glaring error. I am pretty sure I got the first question for June correct, but it was marked incorrect. I checked all four boxes.

    125. ArtyHetty says:

      I got an appallingly low score of, 25%! I swithered quite a bit and chopped and changed, ever the indecisive, not good if being chased by a lion, so lucky to have survived this long!

      Jings, never had a good memory but should have done better. I hear that Coconut is excellent for brain power, so I must get some of that.

      The quiz over at Scotgoespop is good fun too.

    126. maureen says:

      As a relative newbie to politics and learning what’s what on WOS, I was happy to get 45.83%. Played it like pin the tail on the donkey!

    127. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      62.5 which is ok.
      Poor start but came good in the end with one wrong in the last 6 months.
      Must be that aging memory thing. 🙂

    128. Thepnr says:

      I’m really sorry to come across as a complete arsehole again.

      We have started a job that is only yet half done, I’m asking for the readers of Wings to support Independence Live, see post above at 11:37.

      I’ll be honest, Independence Live has a way to go yet to be top quality but FFS what has anyone else done?

      The truth is nothing, there is nothing like it and if allowed to die I don’t see why anything like it may ever again rise in the future. You know that 70p or a £1 you stopped giving to the the SCUM?

      Remember why then that you stopped paying for their crap, consider donating a couple of quid to these guys who are the vanguard!

      To win though we will need more than the just the REV. I’m really sorry to have to be seen to be pushing this, it’s only my my opinion, yours are yours.

      Please support if you can afford too.

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/independence-live-xmas-crowdfunder#/

    129. RogueCoder says:

      54%. I hang my head in shame.

    130. Lollysmum says:

      That’ll teach me not to read instructions properly-all answered off the top of my head & no peeking at articles. Saw the “no googling-we’ll know.”

      Dohhh!!!!!

    131. The Rough Bounds. says:

      58.33% I surprised myself. I must be a bit of a political drudge.

    132. Grouse Beater says:

      Good quiz, and a great reminder of the liars and nutcases out there looking for knighthoods and peerages, mentality locked into the imperial 19th century, who think Scotland is North England and should be kept servile and docile!!!

      Quick quiz here: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2X4

    133. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah dont dey ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s,an ah dont like that smarmy git in the photy,an a hiv nae Elert Reader Badge tae lose abody keeps purloining them fur the longterm,an a need whit grey cells ah hiv fur mair serious issues.

    134. frogesque says:

      13/24 must do better!

      So much loonery and yoonery to keep track of and we’ve not even reached 2016 yet

    135. Thepnr says:

      I just wrote in the same post “the the” and “my my”

      Oops, shite happens my my LOL

    136. Skooshcase says:

      “You have reached 16 of 24 points, (66.67%)”

      That’ll do pig. That’ll do.

    137. Blackford Wheeler says:

      Thanks for the great quiz Andrew.

      I’ll, try it out on my brother and his pals when I visit his local this afternoon.

      How do I see the correct answers?

      Got 66.67% 🙂

    138. Elizabeth Sutherland says:

      Oh dear, 54% must be getting old, never mind,
      onward and upward. Thanks for the quiz, it was good fun.

    139. Duncan says:

      only 50%, poor. must do better on my report card.

      Like the format, inc source for answers. Was thinking this would be a good way to get the uninformed engaged.
      You’d have to offer prizes, with participation in quiz entering you into a lottery for said prize, the more correct one’s answers buys them more tickets for entry therefore more chances of winning.

      If Nye Bevan had to stuff doctor’s mouths with gold to get NHS through then maybe we need to offer something material to get people engaged. A 1st,2nd, and 3rd prize could be really good; family holiday, electric bike, free electricity for a year, etc, something emotive and relevant at the time.

      If prizes cost £5k Im sure we could do one every couple of months with a crowdfund,…thoughts? Either that or we could just be talking to ourselves

    140. Gordon Innes says:

      Happy to get over 50%

      But looks like I was totally asleep before June – either that or applying the Scottish Labour bullshit filter meant nothing they said had any impact and was not worth wasting any memory space on.

    141. Gary45% says:

      I am tooooo embarrassed to say my score, the main thing is,
      SNP x Twa in May.
      I will get that right.

    142. A poor 33.3 but it seems a surprisingly common score.

    143. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Thepnr . I normaly give Kev or Delboy in person but I,ll no be seeing them fur a while so,s £20 will be donated shortly,give as you can afford people,s.

    144. woosie says:

      So the leader is Jim Murphy!

      I can only assume that this is a unionist plot, WOS has been infiltrated or coerced, and that postal submissions are involved!

    145. Ian Grant says:

      I got 62.5% but my wife, who rarely reads Wings, got only 25%. Clear demonstration of Rev Stu’s educational value.

    146. Neil Cook says:

      Pathetic score but I can take solace in that I don’t watch the msm news and don’t buy papers. Cant get away from putting a liebour ("Tractor" - Ed) against every answer didn’t help!!

      £680 for a coffee maker !! How much for the beans ? Lol I put the top price and couldn’t decide of which Alexander Brothers to go for !!

      Who is Jackson Carlaw ?? Is it a car showroom franchise?

      snp x 2 for me

    147. Thepnr says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Nice one ronnie, we’re not doing anything for them. They’re doing it for us.

    148. Ian says:

      OK for some often trivial fun but who really cares what hot air some bought and paid for puppet said. Maybe have a more substantive quiz that include factors that possibly more than a few of the NO voters didn’t/don’t know about and which just might help convince them to drop the No support

      – eg according to McCrone what would Scotland’s position have been if it became independent – 40% poorer, 20% poorer, no change, 20% richer.

      Which UK party added an amendment to the 1979 Devolution Referendum that raised the pass mark to 40% of the total electorate turning a yes vote into a no vote – Tory, Liberals, Labour.

      Which UK economic policy was made possible by North Sea oil – productive investment, no change, financial speculation.

      What did Margaret Thatcher say was her greatest achievement – Falklands War, Privatisation, New Labour.

      Which UK political party refused to take part in the 2014 Independence Referendum live TV debates – Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, Conservative.

      Which UK country in 2015 had the highest level of NHS operations carried out on time – England, Scotland, Wales, NI.

      Without a balanced MSM it’s hard to avoid having to address the bombardment of trivial negative hot air diversionary tactics from sucking up too much time. Without anything constructive to say, that’s pretty much all the UK parties can do because their track record is by far their weakest point. Forget their “we will” and keep reminding folk about ‘they didn’t’. It’d be interesting to find out what Labour, Tories, LibDems & SNP would say their top three achievements have been when they were in power during the last 10 years. Something constructive from the first three? That’ll be the day.

    149. Grouse Beater says:

      The trap in these quizzes is the amount of comments and opinions from loon Yoons interchangeable one with another.

    150. ronnie anderson says:

      45.83% aff the tap o ma heid, noo whit kinda score wid ah hud wie some revision lol.

    151. MerkinScot says:

      Too embarrassed to say what I scored.

    152. msean says:

      50%. Oh well.

    153. john king says:

      Interesting how many of us (including me) got 50%. 🙂

    154. ronnie anderson says:

      @ John King aw rite smart erse 50% diz that make me the poor relation ,jist because you git up earlier LoL

    155. Fergus Green says:

      Glass half full at 50%

    156. Broch Landers says:

      45.83% off the bat. Just need a 5% swing…

    157. Aww man…

      Ah made a hoor ae that, neeber. Oanyways, mon an geez yer votes ya bastards. Ye ken it makes sense. Im no intae haein tae get back up at 6am tae tak the 55 up tae kelty likes.

      Mon the herts.

    158. Dorothy Devine says:

      I thought I was a shameful failure until I realised I scored the same as Ian Brotherhood and Lenny – fair cheered me up to know that.

      Then I discovered someone ( no names!) had scored 25% and I felt positively brilliant!

    159. Dcanmore says:

      54.17% or 13/24.

      Must do better 🙂

      Well I suppose Jim Murphy has had a bit of time on his hands since May ;P

    160. handclapping says:

      That does it I’m never reading the BtL comments no more. You’ve all just shewn you’re a bunch of ferking idiots and you don’t pay any attention to what the Rev says anyway.

      Now you’ve gone and published it for the Yoons to laugh at us 😀

    161. ronnie anderson says:

      @ handclapping ah dont want tae be a smart arse anyhows, so,s there & the Yoons will be laughing on the ither side of their faces lol.

    162. Rookiescot says:

      I got 333.3% right 🙂

      Although I may have used a unionist calculator in that calculation.

    163. Gregg Adams says:

      Generally satisfied with my mediocrity 50%

    164. Clarinda says:

      I sent my answers in on a postal voting form – so I’ll await my result once Miss Davidson is able to tell me.

    165. Jamie Arriere says:

      17/24 70.83% in old money, that would be an A at school.

      Tho’ I can’t remember the fuss in February about a nurse? Was that the nurse-slash-actress? – thought that was pre-Referendum. Gonna have to go back & look

    166. Morva Wortley says:

      I suppose 17 out of 24 isn’t too bad. I could use the excuse that I live in England, but that reason isn’t really going to fly on this site.

      Have a Guid New Year one and all.

    167. Smallaxe says:

      Whatch out! It’s a trick quiz.

      The answer is SNP X 2

    168. Jean says:

      Surprised my self with 58.33%

      Thanks Stu, enjoyed that

    169. yesindyref2 says:

      Good grief, 13 out of 24. I expected the average – 6. Now I’m getting worried 🙁

    170. yesindyref2 says:

      Do I get a prize for noticing the quiz was done by Andrew Leslie, not the Rev? Thanks!

      OT
      Cliff, a poster in the Herald made a point I’d never thought of in an article by Leask about the unemployable ex-Labour MPs. That the media is starved of sources of quotes.

      Very true. They might have to start talking to SNP MPs!

    171. Alistair Grapevine says:

      58.33%,

      Obviously must have been on holiday and missed the blogs where i got the questions wrong,

      Good fun Andrew.

    172. Proud Cybernat says:

      Ah… Nicola’s coffee machine. I remember that…

      http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/GE2015/coffee-dreams.png

    173. Lesley M says:

      I got 12 right, 50%. But I was guessing most of the way through, I really had no idea on most questions. There were probably only 4 questions that I actually had any idea about. Fun quiz, but my knowledge was poor.

    174. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindyref2 points deducted for not being an alert reader!

      Kininvie mentioned way back that he got only 95% which was bad as he had compiled the quiz!!!

    175. Tam Jardine says:

      66.67%… Some tough questions in there. Was scanning to see how some of our malign wingers got on…those bridge sub-residents who devour every post. They are on this site more than anyone- I’m expecting top marks, boys!

    176. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny Hartley
      But but but … ah well!

    177. annie says:

      62.5% not bad considering I’m just out of bed after nightshift.

    178. Albaman says:

      Bloody awful,
      All the three’s, Stew, give us another, so l can use my “postal vote”!.

    179. yesindyref2 says:

      Taking up my own (Cliff’s) point about starved of Labour sources for anti-indy and anti-SNP articles, I guess it explains why our own dear Jackie Baillie is quoted so much, and why the media has gone even further down the plug hole.

      May 2015 elections may well be seen as the tipping point for the next Ref, but does need to be accompanied by wiping out as many Labour MSPs as possible, whereas before for me, all I really cared about was a substantial SNP majority at Holyrood to make sure of Indy Ref 2.

      With the EU referendum looking as though it’ll be sooner than later, and a very likely major stramash about the Scotland Act 2016, I can’t wait for Indy Ref 2 in 2017.

    180. Taranaich says:

      83.33%, a significant sub-percentage of which was through sheer dumb luck – though a few stories are still clear as day to me. I usually don’t do very well in quizzes – I have a horrible habit of second-guessing myself when I feel “sure” of an answer – but I’m quite happy with 20/24.

    181. Murray McCallum says:

      I think A_LordDarling has a lot to answer for.

      His excellent promotion of gifted writers like Alex Cochrane, Magnus Torrance, etc and the cutting insights from Chris Martin at CrapX have made all these geniuses merge into one, frankly!

    182. al urquhar says:

      37% THIRTY SEVEN PER CENT !

      and that’s a total mandate to screw you Jock bastards.

      D. Cameron P.F.

    183. drawdeaddave says:

      I’m happy with 58% if you factor in the scores from the deceased folks & use the Jackie Baillie math formula, then i reckon i’m top of the leader board. Hey i’m ex Labour old habits die hard n all that…

    184. ThereWasACoo says:

      A measly 54.17% for me.

    185. HandandShrimp says:

      54%

      Not too awful as I recover from the compulsory Xmas lurgy

    186. Bob Mack says:

      O/T,

      I see Tadcaster bridge has collapsed. What are the Westminster Government going to do about it?. Will there be the same hoo ha as was demonstrable up here in the provinces?

      I got 50%. Must do better

    187. Chic McGregor says:

      58.33%

    188. Croompenstein says:

      67% not too bad considering I spotted Murph the Smurph out with the family today in Braehead, felt like reminding him he was going to be FM in five months… LOL

    189. Moleskin Joe says:

      45%……..uncanny!

    190. handclapping says:

      If it hadn’t been for Labour’s fairer economy I’d have done it. Bugger 🙁

    191. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr
      I’ve chipped in £10 – my limit at the moment. They are only asking for £4,500 and have nearly £3,000 now with only 4 days to go. Seems a small amount to ask for considering how much time they’ve contributed to bringing us video of events the CorpMedia won’t touch. They could do with better equipment too.

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/independence-live-xmas-crowdfunder#/

    192. Capella says:

      O/T again
      Some good video clips for Independence Live from the usual suspects.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-vRHh-VOY&list=PLxc3IWpJ3vJbJLuE8AT7X9LHpMScPB3AS&index=6

    193. theMadMurph says:

      62.5%! I must do better! Mind you, I have the memory of a goldfish!

    194. Andrew Morton says:

      Ah’ll get mah coat.

    195. mogabee says:

      62.5%

      Try harder next time 😀 😀

    196. call me dave says:

      Snippet from an article in Herald. First time I’ve seen that information since the Summer where it was rumoured to be about 104,000

      ————————————————————
      Meantime, the SNP membership, which was some 25,000 before the 2014 independence referendum, is now around 115,000.
      ————————————————————-

    197. dakk says:

      Only 45.83% and didn’t know it was timed.

      I took 5 hours 29 mins to complete due to interruption at work.

      I’m sure if I had been allowed to concentrate properly I would have been top quartile 🙂

      I could a been a contender I tell you !

      Or maybe I’m just thick as mince right enough.

    198. Conan the Librarian™ says:

      45% …Oh the shame…

    199. Scoatch says:

      70.83% is what lurking gets ye.

    200. galamcennalath says:

      OT WGD’s predictions for 2016 are undoubtedly more accurate than most!

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/12/29/the-mystic-mutts-predictions-for-2016/

    201. Fireproofjim says:

      My quiz is as follows:
      1/. How many days of his promised Christmas break did one Stuart Campbell, spinster of this parish, take?

      Was it (a) None,(couldn’t get a caring rat-sitter)
      (b) Seven, (But meanwhile WOS was ghost-written by Magnus Gardham.)
      ( c). Ten, (But, as heavy fighting broke out throughout WOS, the UN called him back)
      (d) Fourteen, (No! That is unthinkable!)

      Answers to vilecybernat.com

    202. handclapping says:

      @Fireproofjim
      That’s one question as needs an
      (e) all of the above
      or
      (f) most

    203. smithie says:

      Well, i got every one correct of the ones i knew.

      Oh, look, a Squirrel/

    204. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi yesindyref2.

      Re indyref2 timing.

      I did a post on 21st December (which went uncommented) where I typed,

      “Typing about important dates…
      6th April, 2020, will be the 700th anniversary of The Declaration Of Arbroath. Wouldn’t that be the most appropriate, highly significant and historic date for Scotland’s ‘Independence Day’?

      All we need is IndyRef2 in late summer 2017 or late spring/early summer 2018, to provide a reasonable timescale for negotiations to the 2020 date.”

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/shocking-incredible-news/#comment-2096511

      We get the 2017 council elections done and dusted, then the road is a clearway…

    205. r esquierdo says:

      Pass the dunce hat 25%.

    206. yesindyref2 says:

      @BDTT
      I’d forgotten the council elections. Yes, good idea to get them over first.

    207. Archie Hamilton says:

      like a good politician I think 54.17% sounds better than 13/24 so my result can only be declared as a percentage.
      No excuses will be accepted from SNP.

    208. Simon Chadwick says:

      I tried to cheat by ticking all 4 boxes for each answer, but the leaderboard gave me 0%. I think that’s a wee bit unfair.

    209. Iain says:

      Brian Doonthetoon, that would be a great day to be independent on, but if it comes sooner all the better.

    210. Craig says:

      62.5%, I got 15/24, some of those questions weren’t fair as all suspects for some of the questions was possible, good of you link the source Quizmaster 😉

      Seeing we are near the end of 2015 and soon be welcoming 2016.

      I want to wish my fellow wingers and Rev a very happy new year when it comes and hope that it will be an even better year than 2015.

    211. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      In indyref1, the no side got 13.272 out of 24…

    212. Robert Kerr says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      First things first people

      SNP/SNP for May 2016
      Get Police Scotland sorted.
      SNP for councils May 2017.
      Forensic analysis of the “books” of the usual SLAP suspects, Glasgow, N Lanarkshire, etc etc.
      Call in the cops and arrest SLAB ex-councillors.
      Cleanse the Augean stables of SLAB and “arms length” affiliates.
      Agitate for iRef2.
      Go for it.
      2020 vision (6th April)

    213. gordoz says:

      Dejected & downtrodden Scot – Scored 45%

      Wife Score 68% (and she wusnae even tryin’)

      Feel totally useless – probably best if I tried for NorBrit Corbynista ‘truth team’ !

      Gettin’ ma coat noo!

    214. oldteuchter says:

      45 but with so much cac raining down day by day I don’t try to remember it.

    215. Robert Louis says:

      Oh good a quiz. This’ll be easy..

    216. John Sm. says:

      58.33%.

      Would have been higher but for my shocking memory.

      🙂

    217. Douglas Macdonald says:

      Having given up on listening to anything Unionist politicians had to say over the past year, I feel justifiably proud of my 7/24 score. However, to be truly successful, my aim for the 2016 Quiz is to score 0/24!! Given that a monkey should score 6/24 in this multiple choice test, it is going to be a tough ask.

    218. Adam says:

      75% without Googling. No bad, considering I mostly stopped paying attention after May. Will be more attentive in 2016.

    219. Naeidea says:

      I’ve really nae idea. Got 41 point something. I’ve only been reading the site since May.

    220. Effijy says:

      Please don’t feel dejected if you didn’t gain a pass mark!

      I’m sure that the lowest scorer on this site would still have
      the ability to become leader of the North British Accounting Unit.

      The most important thing is that you visit this site and know how
      the Corrupt Unionist Politicians and Media hold back you and your country!

    221. Capella says:

      O/T for older anoraks.
      Once you’ve done the quiz, you can take a wee trip down memory lane and listen to Keith Richards talking about music on R2:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06s7dwk

    222. @Robert Louis says:

      Oh good a quiz. This’ll be easy..

      If that one is to difficult try this one it’s easier.

      https://www.justpark.com/creative/reaction-time-test/

    223. Chic McGregor says:

      If your feeling bad just remember Kezia only got (I think) two questions for her team on UC.

      Mind you, I failed on that episode as well since I only got 17 right and I have a personal target of 20. Haven’t made 20 for about a few weeks now, might need to lower my target, tempus fugit and all that.

    224. Graf Midgehunter says:

      I don’t think I’m in line for a coconut this time. 🙁

      We had a singing budgie when I was a kid so I come from a culture orientated family, non-political…!?#*

      That’s my excuse an I’m sticking to it…! 😉

      9/24 – 37.5% (Lowers eyes)

    225. ahundredthidiot says:

      66.7% in bang on 8 minutes!

      Speed points next year Rev?

    226. Effijy says:

      The First Minister’s petition to stop bombing innocents in Syria is still 104 signatures away from its 100,000 target.

      The numbers isn’t increasing now yet we are so close.

      We must show our support for Nicola, the Party, and the people of Syria.

      If you have a Grand Dad in Baghdad, a Sister in Bicester, or a Niece in Nice who hasn’t yet signed this petition, Please send them the Link below!

      http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria?mc_cid=86a2a6caac&mc_eid=2ca6f3edb9

    227. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      O/T

      gunsandbutter.snappages.com/transcript-visas-for-al-qaeda

      Deeply worrying,but if true not completely surprising

    228. jdman says:

      Graf Midgehunter
      “We had a singing budgie when I was a kid so I come from a culture orientated family, non-political…!?#* ”

      Ach dont be so hard on yourself, just remember the words of a far more intelligent peroson than we.

      “We are not genetically programmed in Scotland to make political decisions.”

    229. K1 says:

      That’s it Chic, embarrass me wi yer high scoring Uni challenge…I thought my 9 would have got me the branch leader, yiv jist gied me a shown’ up, kin a be deputy? 🙂

    230. jdman says:

      Great one Cynicalhighlander

      Apparently I have the reactions of a 20year old 314 milliseconds cock-o-the- walk soinumur

    231. schrodingers cat says:

      HandandShrimp
      54%
      Not too awful as I recover from the compulsory Xmas lurgy

      snap, score and lurgy, face like a green candle factory at the mo

    232. K1 says:

      Hoy! Andrew, where’s the leader board?

    233. Bob W says:

      @cynicalHighlander

      Your test seemed easier. This 64 year old has the reactions of a 36 year old (449ms)

      Must be related to my predilection for video gaming. 🙂

    234. Morgatron says:

      Oh darn 48.5%. Need to pay more attention in 16. Initialy I thought it was the result of guess Jackie (the honker) Bailies weight competition.Thanks Stu, for a good wee bit of festive fun.

    235. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Rev, being one to avoid controversy, has never had WOS host any kind of annual awards. Wise man.

      Anyone fancy doing an ‘unofficial’ Yoonbag of 2015 poll?

      Obviously, nominees would have to be Scottish, or directly involved in Scottish politics, and have demonstrated unswerving loyalty to the maintenance of the UK and, preferably, apparent obliviousness as to the outcome of the May 2015 election. (If they also feign any form of optimism as to the outcome of the 2016 GE then they should be credited accordingly.)

      With none of that in mind, I nominate the Norman Wisdom of Scottish Politics, Willie Rennie, for, er, well, ehm, for just being Willie Rennie. It’s likely to be the only award he will ever be nominated for. (Which is not to say that he’d win it anyway…)

      The contenders are too obvious and numerous to mention, but it would be fun doing it, eh?

    236. smithie says:

      Ah one wee flaw there Ian, see there’s, “only one wullie rennie, one wullie rennie” soz got carried away there

    237. @jdman says:

      Great one Cynicalhighlander

      Apparently I have the reactions of a 20year old 314 milliseconds cock-o-the- walk soinumur

      @Bob W says:

      @cynicalHighlander

      Your test seemed easier. This 64 year old has the reactions of a 36 year old (449ms)

      I am classed as a 67 year old alien at 281ms.

    238. Finnz says:

      With 66.67% I just wish I could sit my maths multiple choice again…the force must be with me…

    239. @Ian Brotherhood

      Iain Gray and his questioning of where an oil fund would come from in an indy Scotland has to be a classic.

    240. Bob W says:

      @cynicalHighlander

      My excuses for being so much slower:-

      Using a mobile phone
      Over a wireless network
      You must have been closer to the server

    241. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @cynicalHighlander (10.19) –

      Your nomination *Iain Gray* is hereby officially recorded as the second nomination for the Unofficial WOS BTL ‘Yoonbag 2015’ Award.

      The shortlist is now 100% bigger than it was a wee while ago:

      1. Willie Rennie
      2. Iain Gray

      (Please do not reply to this message. The results will be communicated to you, or someone close to you, within 14 days of receiving this notification. Thank you.)

    242. lumilumi says:

      @cynicalHighlander

      That test shaved more than two decades off my age on first try (20-yr-old at 316 millisecs) and on my next try I got “We’re not sure if you’re an actual human being” 🙁 (277 millisecs)

      😀

    243. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Interesting column by Cat Boyd in the National, and this comment: “Whatever your views on the SNP, for the moment Scotland feels like a liberated country.”

      I think at last she’s got the SNP angle about right. There’s a certain sympathy for RISE and Cat, but not if they try to trash the SNP. Rsaising a question mark though I think is acceptable for a competing but fellow pro-Indy party.

    244. CynicalHighlander says:

      @lumilumi

      Nice to meet fellow alien.

    245. Richard Greig says:

      Only got 9/24.
      Very poor show but I reckon I wouldn’t have got even that if I only had the enemy media as the source of my info.
      Thanks to wings for all the informative posts.
      I’ll try to study a wee bit harder for future interactions with non Indy types I encounter.
      Regards
      Richard

    246. Still Positive. says:

      Feel positive about Cat Boyd but still voting SNP x 2 in May as I have always done. Been voting SNP in general elections since Oct 1974: voted Jimmy Reid in February that year when he stood as a Communist.

      No regrets.

    247. Gary45% says:

      A certain note of caution, regarding RISE etc.
      It has taken decades for the SNP to get to where they are, there are a vast number of the Scottish electorate, who have taken the SNP to heart, and having yet another party vying for the same vote will be counter productive.
      I mean no disrespect to any party going against the SNP who are genuinely standing up for Scotland’s interests, but when push comes to shove, it has to be SNPx2, to send a clear message to Westminster “their time is up”.
      The irony would be if the Scottish electorate, “shafted itself yet again” much to the glee of the unionist masters.
      When we reach the utopia of an Independent Scotland, we can have as many parties as we like trying to gain control, but it will be our parties and our control.
      At this moment in time nothing else matters.

      Lemmy,RIP man. “My ears are still ringing from the 80s”

    248. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s how David Torrance has been funding his onslaught against Cybernattery. (Fuck knows it’s not via book sales…)

      He broke Hollywood, years ago…(minus the specs)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnPWJOJYVKc

    249. Grouse Beater says:

      I keep telling English friends and associates their government cares little about putting anything into Scotland, more about what they can get out of us. They are always sceptical because they can’t get their mind around Westminster dogma. But here’s another lump of evidence:

      A former minister in David Cameron’s coalition government argued “pampered Scots” should face deep cuts in public spending when he advised Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s.

      David Willetts, who served as universities minister until the general election in May, had told the then prime minister that Scotland was the “only juicy target” that had escaped her spending axe.

      Working as a young Downing Street policy adviser, Willetts told Thatcher in 1986 that £900m more was spent on Scots than people living in England.

      Downing Street papers released by the National Archives on Wednesday show that he tried to win Thatcher’s backing by telling her that her “wider economic philosophy” was not fully applied in Scotland, where public agencies such as the Scottish Development Agency and the Highlands and Islands Development Board continued to flourish.

      Never forget, the colonial mentality is a gene English power elite cannot eradicate.

    250. Still Positive. says:

      Couldn’t agree more Gary 45%.

      Hope it is more than that now. Especially as the Devo Max is a no-go area. I really hope they have gone to indy now.

    251. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Grouse Beater (12.08) –

      re ‘Pampered Scots’

      Your English friends and associates will almost certainly NOT find this image of interest:

      ‘Evicted family, Lochmaddy, Outer Hebrides, 1895’ –

      http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/jacobitesenlightenmentclearances/clearances/index.asp

    252. dakk says:

      GB 12.08

      ‘the colonial mentality is a gene English power elite cannot eradicate’

      Scotland is to them what Kurdish people are to the Turkish state.No more ,no less.

      It’s an Imperial thing.

    253. Bill Steele says:

      I got 100% no cheating, but a lot of guessing. I’m amazed!

    254. K1 says:

      Well Bill ‘that’ must qualify for an ‘the alertest reader’ on Wings, badge!

      BDTT and Petethecamera get that man a badge made ( 😉

    255. stephen says:

      Was out tonight with friends/in laws etc ,since the referendum in 2014 its been a bit strained between us due to the fact that they voted NO .Tonight having a chin wag about life in general ,f*ck me they announced that they now wished they had voted YES.Do I laugh or cry ??????

    256. K1 says:

      Laugh at the irony and weep for the lost opportunity.

      It’s good though, people ‘are’ waking up. We are getting there.

    257. K1 says:

      Letwin and Willets, two of the biggest Tory pricks that we ever had the misfortune … ach fuck it, what’s the point, let’s fucking destroy them in May, not one Tory left in Scotland’s parliament. Let’s see how they tackle their Scotland cash cow then, shower of utter bastards.

      (yes I just read the guardian articles)

    258. Paul says:

      Seriously, anyone who genuinely got 100% on their first try deserves a medal!

      I was happy to score 75%, and then on reading the actual answers to the others was struck with that ‘oh yeah’ feeling… all except question 1.

      Merry Christmas to all Wingers and a Happy New Year when it comes.
      Stay safe folks and I’ll catch you all in the New Year!

    259. Onwards says:

      Gary45% says:
      29 December, 2015 at 11:48 pm

      “A certain note of caution, regarding RISE etc.
      It has taken decades for the SNP to get to where they are, there are a vast number of the Scottish electorate, who have taken the SNP to heart, and having yet another party vying for the same vote will be counter productive.”

      I agree 100%
      An SNP majority in 2016 is the only realistic way to keep independence on the agenda within the next 5 years.
      They are ahead in the polls right now, but there is no room for complacency, and a bunch of SNP list seats will likely be needed for that majority.

      Several hundred RISE votes in each region could be enough to stop that, and still wouldn’t be enough to achieve a single RISE MSP

      So independence supporters splitting the pro-indy vote could be a disaster. No majority = No chance of a second referendum, and Scotland will be treated like shit by the Tories in London, knowing there is nothing we can do about it.

    260. osakisushi says:

      How about a Big Fat Liar of 2015 Quiz

    261. yesindyref2 says:

      I agree totally, SNP + SNP.

      Got an email from the Donald Trump petition – 565,171 signatures, quickly looking at the map, quite even over the UK considering population densities. For some reason it doesn’t have NI on the map!

    262. Ken500 says:

      The tax evading criminal comedians

      Heard the one about the ‘pampered’ Scots. The joke of the Tories in Scotland. Thatcher who offshored the equivalent of £Billions of Oil revenues and spent it on London S/E. Taken right out of the equation. Illegally and secretly kept off the books. ‘This must be kept secret’, written on the documents. Cancelled a pipe line wasting the equivalent of £Billions of Gas. Destroyed the UK’s industrial base. .

      Thatcher had over 3million unemployed and interest rates at 15%. Demutualisied the Building Societies owned by the members. Dangerously deregulated the world banking sector. De-leveraged from 25% reserves to 13% of collateral. Led to the Banking crash. Sold off utilities now governed and managed by foreign state owned utility companies.

      Governer’s wealth has increased by £1/2Billion. The equivalent of the intended ‘Welfare’ cuts, to starve the vulnerable, women and children.

      Labour kept the McCrone Report secret for thirty years. The illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Foreign banks and multinationals are tax evading through the City of London with impunity and the collusion of Westminster M.P’s. Putting overseas losses against British business. Totally illegally HMRC is not fit fo purpose. Blair and Brown should be out in jail.

      The Tories have destroyed the Oil sector (75% take), stopped coal production (no CCS), banned wind turbines, and are overspending £Billions on nuclear and exporting the toxic waste. More fuel and energy has to be imported putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt. Spending £70Billion on a ‘white elephant’ train line which will make journey’s longer. Drowning the economy, while the Chairman of the Environment Agency holidays in Barbados. Rory should have built some flood defences, instead of a cairn. £170Billion+ being spent on Trident.

      Fire, famine and floods. Illegal bombing, starving the vulnerable and flooding the economy. Tory cuts to public spending and tax breaks for the wealthy and death to the vulnerable. Cuts to the NHS and the vulnerable and increases for the illegal tax evaders.

    263. Ken500 says:

      The Green vote = Coburn MEP (20,000) UKIP

    264. Ghillie says:

      67% =) Was eating chocolates at the time which had to help!

    265. Iain McGlade says:

      Chuffed with 58%. Not bad for someone living in England.

    266. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ken500 says: 30 December, 2015 at 7:09 am:

      “The tax evading criminal comedians”

      But! But! But!

      That cannot be correct, Ken500, – everyone in the media sectors knows it’s the SNP that’s BAAAD.

    267. gerry parker says:

      Effijy @ 8:22.

      circulated the petition link to all my contacts, it’s slowly creeping toward 100,000.

      regards and best wishes for the new year.

    268. Fi says:

      Sorry – a dismal 25% – I was optimistic I might have fluked a higher score but apparently I still can’t tell one Unionist troll/journalist from another, or Labour from Conservative. Great quiz, looking forward to lots more from Wings in 2016 – yours is the only news I read – full of common sense and backed up by facts. No matter what is thrown at this country by the mindless drones, my family & I will always favour an Independent Scotland 🙂

    269. Macart says:

      @K1

      Ayup, read that historical piece on Willets. They haven’t changed a jot in all those years.

      There is no pooling and sharing and never was. It was a fabrication and misrepresentation of the worst sort. A sound bite which sounds good for a campaign. The reality as we are well aware and most especially the poor and working class, is that ‘What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine’. The mantra of establishment the world over. The treaty of union isn’t about effective government. Its not about popular representation or reflecting the popular will of the electorate and for a certainty it isn’t about pooling and sharing. Its about retaining and managing a system, an order, control of resources and only then for a specific small percentage of the population of these islands.

      In May we remove their self serving stain on our parliament and move one step closer to full self government.

    270. Robert Louis says:

      Shockerooni, I only just managed over 50%. Clearly there is something wrong with this quiz.

    271. AAD says:

      29.7%. My excuse? The brains in my auld grey heid are addled from butting heads at bus stops, in supermarket queues and on doorsteps with people who have been brain washed and frightened by Unionists.

      Will start my revision of old Wings articles in January in preparation for the Holyrood election.

    272. Dr Jim says:

      Until Scotland is liberated other apprentice political parties are a distraction and would steal votes from the objective (Greens=Mundell) that turned out well
      Every vote not for the SNP gives the Yoons a chance or at the very least lowers the SNP vote giving the Yoons hope

      I wouldn’t give a Yoon the matter out my eye

      But that’s just me

    273. frogesque says:

      @ WGD

      2016, the year of the yumyum, and SNP/SNP!

    274. Glamaig says:

      Grousebeater 12:08

      Well whaddaya know. Both R4 and Radio ‘Scotland’ news bulletins report the Letwin memo this morning but neither mention the Willets one, which is you know, kinda relevant to Scotland.

      ‘Radio Scotland’ come on what a joke. Its Radio Northern Colony Region, and its mission is to pull the wool over the eyes of those stupid Jocks.

    275. Sinky says:

      Economist Jim Cuthbert updates his analysis of the Tory Tax Trap over Scotland;s future fiscal framework.

      http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/12/27/fiscal-settlement-flawed-ifs-report-bad-news-for-scotland/

      Well worth a read by all pro indy supporters

    276. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says: 30 December, 2015 at 12:35 am:

      “Your English friends and associates will almost certainly NOT find this image of interest:

      ‘Evicted family, Lochmaddy, Outer Hebrides, 1895’ –

      http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/jacobitesenlightenmentclearances/clearances/index.asp.

      Sadly, Ian, most Scots who know about the Highland Clearances, are totally ignorant that the Lowlands and Southern Uplands were also just as ruthlessly cleared.

      There was, perhaps, less violence but it was equally traumatic for those non-Highlander Scots. Their deaths were often actually slower and crueller.

      Outside the Highlands the system in force in the, still mainly agricultural Scotland, was that the workers fee’d on at annual Feeing on Markets. The workers never owned a home as there living quarters were tied to their employment.

      Each worker’s belongings were just what they could pack into their, “Pluckie’s Kist”, (Ploughman’s Chest), (My Grandparents, who brought me up in my early years, still had their Pluckies Kists).

      Once each year the landowner, or farmer, would take their entire workforce with their kists to the local Feeing Oan Merkat, even if they intended to fee them on again. If a worker was not Fee’d Oan then that worker had no job, no income and no home.

      In the eyes of the law they were classed as, “Without visible means of Support”, and this made them officially Vagrants under the Vagrancy Acts. This was a criminal offence and the lucky ones were sent to the Work-House, Poor-House, got hard labour or were flogged.

      The rest were deportation to the colonies. There to be, “Apprenticed”, for the period of their sentence. This was basically enslavement by a land owning person in the colonies. This included, (mainly), females serving several years in the sex trade. Otherwise unpaid workers of all kinds. Cruelty and deaths were rife.

      At the end of their, “Apprenticeship”, the, “Criminal”, could stake a claim to a bit of land. To either mine or farm it. If they built a dwelling upon the claim they could then own the claim.

      One way out of serving the Apprenticeship was to sign on as a warder on the prison ship. This spell on the voyage was counted as having served your sentence and on arrival you could immediately stake a claim.

      The Vagrancy Act has not yet been fully repealed by Westminster but big changes were made in the late 1990s.

      The legal term still being used right into the 1990s was, “Having been found without visible means of support”, and the usual sentence was 30 days in prison or £30.00.

      So the actual convict who were the backbone of Canada, Australia and New Zealand had in fact been guilty of nothing more than being unemployed and homeless.

    277. galamcennalath says:

      Glamaig says:

      “Radio ‘Scotland’ news bulletins report the Letwin memo this morning but neither mention the Willets one ….. mission is to pull the wool over the eyes of those stupid Jocks.”

      There’s probably a good story for the Rev in this. England gets England relevant news while Scotland gets … England relevant news. Again.

      “In a briefing to Mrs Thatcher written while he [Letwin] was a Downing Street aide in 1985, he claimed that white people were not prone to disorder and suggested that a scheme to encourage black entrepreneurs would only result in them investing “discos and drugs”. ” …. Relevant to Scots? Not much.

      “In January 1986, Lord Willetts wrote a letter to Mrs Thatcher describing Scotland as the “only juicy” target left over” … Ignored, or suppressed?

      Thing is … Do you give the BBC the benefit of the doubt and say it is just ignorance, arrogance and stupidity? Or, is it a malicious campaign to undermine democracy, basically sedition.

    278. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert Peffers

      As always interesting, I recall about ten years ago when I still read the Herald a snippet in the 25,50,100,200 years ago feature about an “aliens act” which deemed that any “scotchman” living in England who lost their job was to be transported at their own cost back to Scotland.

      Their was an example of a family who had lived in England for 20 years or more where the main breadwinner had a good job and when he lost the job the family were transported to Glasgow and dumped there. I think they came from the West Higlands and they had to make there own way to the ancestral home. I may be wrong about them having to pick up the charges for transportation to Scotland but that’s what I recall, I presume if the could not pay they would become vagrants and be transported to the Colonies as per your post.

      I still have that “snippet” will try and find it.

    279. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert Peffers

      As always interesting, I recall about ten years ago when I still read the Herald a snippet in the 25,50,100,200 years ago feature about an “aliens act” which deemed that any “scotchman” living in England who lost their job was to be transported at their own cost back to Scotland.

      Their was an example of a family who had lived in England for 20 years or more where the main breadwinner had a good job and when he lost the job the family were transported to Glasgow and dumped there. I think they came from the West Higlands and they had to make there own way to the ancestral home. I may be wrong about them having to pick up the charges for transportation to Scotland but that’s what I recall, I presume if the could not pay they would become vagrants and be transported to the Colonies as per your post.

      I still have that “snippet” will try and find it.

    280. louis.b.argyll says:

      Indeed Robert, many are ignorant that the clearances are just part of the abuse…

      Legalised brutality built the British Empire- and the Working Poor throughout these islands were the first to suffer.

      It is very concerning that GREED, RACISM, SEXISM AND THEIR DENIAL CAN ALL BE SEEN TODAY-AT THE HEART OF CONSERVATIVE POLICY.

      Westminster and parliaments in general- exist to cover past mistakes and organise the next mistakes, to make sure that all those being exploited are POWERLESS at the appropriate time.

      Did slavery repeal itself? No.

    281. Roddy nicoll says:

      I scored under 50% and I visit this site everyday, I read every article and the majority of the comments.

      If on balance the average score on here is sub 50% what does it say about the fantastic work the Rev does on this site? Most readers are avid supporters and even we fall down when put to the test on the morass of propaganda we have to decipher

      What chance does that elusive 10-15% of the floating or soft no vote have, lean they are the ones we have to convince

      I know this quiz is a light hearted bit of end of year tomfoolery , but it does highlight a problem that needs to be address.

      I love the depth, the research, the reasoned argument, the presentation of fact, the critical comments et al. But when I start to repeat them to even yes voters I watch the mist of confusion descend and I know I’ve lost them, not the argument

      Much as I would never want to dumb down the content, perhaps it’s time for an easily digestible sound bite type approach with perhaps a mobile site and an app?

      An i100 for scots with hyper links to more in depth comment. Some of that 15% just need a few facts to hang onto and repeat in the canteen or the office , they just need the reposte to the unionist sound bite .

      Just a thought

    282. Glamaig says:

      @galamcennelath 9:59

      Thing is … Do you give the BBC the benefit of the doubt and say it is just ignorance, arrogance and stupidity? Or, is it a malicious campaign to undermine democracy, basically sedition.

      Good question. It would take an insider to answer that. A journalist I was talking to told me that the BBC employ lots of young graduates on minimum wage who are desperate to ‘make it’ then ditch them after a few years and take on new hopefuls, so they get a stream of highly motivated youngsters for a pittance. If the BBC recruit mainly from S. England and move people around the different ‘regions’ of the UK, inside Plantation Quay could be young, inexperienced people who know fcuk all about Scotland.

      On the other hand, before the referendum I favoured ‘cock up’ over ‘conspiracy’ in general, but since the referendum, as a result of what I saw with my own eyes, and from reading Ponsonby’s book, I’m not so sure. I think we all know how the Establishment works now – a quiet word with a chap here, a convivial dinner and a chat with a chap there. The motivation to be ‘a good chap’ within ones social circle is a strong one. That’s all ‘conspiracy’ is probably, the fear of exclusion from a social group, which is a really desirable group to be in.

      Luckily in Scotland we are now growing an alternative social group called the people and the SNP, that is what is putting the shits up the UK Establishment.

    283. ronnie anderson says:

      Letwin letter Thank fuck he was writing about the Broadwater (lower class white residents)living in Slums. I would be offended if he was reffering to us Scots of NO class ( nothings changed there).

      Anybody got a handle on the David Willets letter or has that got a 100 yrs release date.

      SNP 1×2.

    284. louis.b.argyll says:

      Yes folks, SLAVERY IS alive and well..

      .. AND ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED
      (on behalf of business)

      ..OR DENIED
      (on behalf of politicians)

      BY THE LEGAL PROFESSION…

      .. WHO HAVE FAILED TO ‘STAND UP’ FOR THE LAWS AND VALUES WE PRESUME THEY PROTECT.

      And we have failed as an electorate to

      ‘see through’ the lies and laws that our

      ‘statesmen’ used, and still use to

      (officially) create wealth..but

      (in reality to) suppress the

      ………… REAL human spirit..

      … lest it rejects their status quo.

    285. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers & Lenny Hartley –

      Good stuff.

      I have a friend in the SSP (in his early sixties) whose father, as a child, was ‘sold’ for summer work in the manner Robert describes, and that was in Ireland, perhaps Fermanagh.

      There’s no doubt the Tories would happily take us all back to that feudal shite in a heartbeat. We won’t let them.

    286. galamcennalath says:

      @ronnie anderson

      As always, I wish these barstards in the CorpMedia would reference sources. We don’t want their interpretation and spin, we want to read the original. Anyhows …

      Snippets everywhere, but not overall detail. From Independent …

      Thatcher was told to cut Scottish budget to win support from ‘the envious north of England’

      As a Downing Street policy advisor, David Willetts told Margaret Thatcher that £900m more was being spent on Scots than on people in England.

      Mr Willetts, who served as science minister under the 2010 Coalition, said in January 1986 that Scotland was “the only juicy target” for further cuts.

      He argued that inflicting cuts on Scotland would win favour with “envious” people in the North of England.

      “Your economic policies stop at the English border,” he said.

      “Ultimately, the question is a political one. The position of the Conservative party in Scotland is so bad that it might not deteriorate any further.

      “And the envious north of England might even welcome an attack on the pampered Scots over the border.”

    287. louis.b.argyll says:

      glamaig,

      Understand your perception, but as a

      50%-er,

      I knew most answers were, for example

      ‘one of these two numpties for sure’

      “Plumping for the wrong numptie” isn’t

      really failure on our part.

    288. louis.b.argyll says:

      As said, but to Roddy above, sry

    289. steveasaneilean says:

      41.67% – clearly Scottish Government must be to blame for my poor performance.

    290. Glamaig says:

      That Willets stuff could have been written yesterday. Its a safe bet that right now, similar emails are flying around deep in Whitehall and the Treasury working out how to cut Scotlands funding, increase privatisation north of the border, and whip up Barnett envy in England.

    291. louis.b.argyll says:

      Thing is..41.67%.
      ..the Rev could have made it easier…

    292. ronnie anderson says:

      I,ll no be buying a Bottle this New Year ,so,s both Crowdfunders got £20 each Orkney 4, Indy Livestream.
      ( Indycamp will be effter me ,they only got two Jars of Coffee & a bag of Sugar ( weil it wiz Nescafe & a 1kg bag lol ).

      Remember Folks A Little means A Lot,give as you,s can afford to give.

      And a Guid New Year tae ALL WINGERS & LURKERS.

      And a Very Guid New Year tae the MAN that got us all thegither Stuart Campbell & his Helpers.

    293. Dorothy Devine says:

      ooohh! Steveasaneilean , I didn’t think of that one – excellent !

      Obviously my performance is also to be blamed on the SNP government.

    294. K1 says:

      Whether we got 25% or 75%, or Bill got 100%, we still know more about what these bastards are up to than ‘they’ want us to notice.

      It’s not about whether we can match exactly the who and what they said when, it’s that we have between us ‘all’ the information: we have the complete ‘picture’ and together we represent the opposition to the entire corpmedia and unionist establishment. And there’s nothing they can do to stop us seeing and knowing exactly what they are about: self serving lying bastards.

      So, as the many pieces that make up the jigsaw that when correctly joined form the completed picture, we all bring our unique ‘piece’ to the table.

      We are all the difference we want to see, in action, thank fuck we all found each other!

      And thank the moon and the stars for Stu, for providing a ‘home’ fur us aw wi Wings!

    295. dunx says:

      @ Lenny Hartley 10.14

      That rings a bell, sounds like the old poor relief acts prior to the ” New PoorLaw” 1834 (which established the workhouses)
      Prior to that under the old acts you had to “go on the parish”
      But note this was your parish of origin!
      NOT the parish you happened to live in/ be employed in.

      I noticed that the new poor laws didn’t come to Scotland until 1845 and might have been even later in Ireland.

      Hope this helps it is the “Settlement and REMOVAL Act” of 1662. One of the acts which comprised the old poor laws.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_Relief_Act_1662.

    296. K1 says:

      Glamaig, it’s in the public domain now, they don’t even make a secret about it, just need to watch uk parliament and how our reps were treated throughout the amendments fiasco, with utter contempt. They mean us harm, from the bone to flesh…they will cut us, ‘if’ we let them.

      Which we won’t.

      SNP/SNP to save ourselves and our future generations.

    297. Ian Brotherhood says:

      After our wee discussion t’other nicht about Orwell, I went back and re-read a lot of the essays, and this one could be useful for anyone who has to listen to annoying cousins, in-laws or neighbours at Hogmanay bashes, banging on about SNP-Bad/NHS-related bollocks.

      If anyone starts bawbagging about the NHS in Scotland, hand them a copy of this and tell them not to open their gubs again until they’ve read it – it’s no more than an accident of birth that we don’t have to endure what he describes here;

      Orwell, ‘How The Poor Die’ (1946) –

      http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/Poor_Die/english/e_pdie

    298. gordoz says:

      DON’T BOMB SYRIA PETITION

      Only 80 signatures req’d to complete folks.

      http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria

      Can we get a few more from Wings readers to make this happen ?

    299. Jack Murphy says:

      Deserves a re-post:-
      galamcennalath said at 9:59 am
      Glamaig says:
      “England gets England relevant news while Scotland gets … England relevant news. Again.

      “In a briefing to Mrs Thatcher written while he [Letwin] was a Downing Street aide in 1985, he claimed that white people were not prone to disorder and suggested that a scheme to encourage black entrepreneurs would only result in them investing “discos and drugs”. ” …. Relevant to Scots? Not much.

      “In January 1986, Lord Willetts wrote a letter to Mrs Thatcher describing Scotland as the “only juicy” target left over” … Ignored, or suppressed?” !!

      Thing is … Do you give the BBC the benefit of the doubt and say it is just ignorance, arrogance and stupidity? Or, is it a malicious campaign to undermine democracy?”

      Come on Radio/TV Scotland get your finger out and REPORT THE NEWS!!!
      I suggest BBC Scotchland Branch has a second read of their National Union of Journalists Code of Conduct!!! 🙁

    300. Glamaig says:

      @K1
      yes, its in the public domain if you watch geeky stuff like Parliament Channel. The media equivalent of the bottom drawer of a filing cabinet in the basement.

      Meanwhile, the mainstream narrative for the masses is, the vow delivered, most powerful devolved etc etc utter shite.

      Its the UKOK way, propaganda by omission.

      I only got 16/24 cos I read Wings and all the others. Otherwise I would get 6/24 by guesswork, probably.

    301. Great Quiz Andrew Leslie,

      is their any link to see a list of scores?

      Anyone buying a New Year bottle remember William Grant & Sons donated £185,000 to the campaign to stop Scotland becoming an Independent country,

      one of their main reasons for supporting rule from Westminster was the fear of an in/out referendum on the EU,

      so choose your usquabae wisely.

      http://tinyurl.com/jrt5dx8

    302. Grouse Beater says:

      Ian:“our wee discussion t’other nicht about Orwell”

      I wonder what Orwell would have thought about the internet holding the contents of books and essays but the actual books no longer published?

      I own and cherish his entire essays in their original hardback publication. An authoritarian government could, with the right contrived law, block access to his ideas and opinions by internet access.

      We already have that in the terrorist laws that can have a person arrested for having material on his premises that could incite, as happens in China with their ‘dissident.’

      Next stage is a knock on the door in the night from the thought police saying a neighbour contacted them because I’m reading or holding banned books and am duly arrested.

      Just a thought…

    303. ronnie anderson says:

      @ galamcennalath 11.05. Thanks gala jist in case the Rev springs anither quick quiz on us LoL.

    304. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dunx

      If I remember correctly it was a post Union act specifically targeting the Scots and Irish , therefore was more than likely post 1820. I’ve googled and can’t find it, but will persevere.

    305. Jim Mitchell says:

      Hmm, time for me to go for a walk in the garden, with a fine cigar and a loaded revolver.

      Bye folks.

    306. Ken500 says:

      Embargo on ‘pampered’ Scots ‘news’? No mention in MSM.

      Thatcher was getting the equivalent of £24Billion+ a year in Oil revenues and spending it in London and the S/E of England.

      £10Billion is being taken from Scotland a year by Westminster Gov policies.

      Total taxes raised in the UK. £515Billion. Total raised in Scotland £54Billion. Take £54Billion from £515Billion = £461Billion. Divide by 11 (UK 11/12 of pop) = £42Billion. Rest of the UK borrows and spends £90Billion? more.

      Scotland gets back £46Billion – £30Block Grant + £16Billion (UK) pensions/benefits. £4Billion for Defence. (Trident/illegal wars) £4Billion on debt repayments Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend = £54Billion. Scotland could put a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink and land. Invest in renewables and cut Oil sector taxation making it viable. £10Billion+ could be better spent.

    307. K1 says:

      Glamaig, we’re winning, and as other commenters have noted, ‘on the doorstep’ it’s making no difference how much shit they fling. A little positivity: it’s looking good for May, let’s not bemoan how far we have come…irrespective of the onslaught, if anything it’s changing the mind’s of those who voted No last year.

      Or at least sowing the seeds of doubt, they’re doing the work for us in that regard wi the relentless SNPBad schtick. It’s backfiring, and will continue to do so.

      There’s mair o’ us than them. You’ll see.

    308. call me dave says:

      Hark the Herald!

      Davidson says the cry of ‘pish’ was predictable but some were surprised.

      Then it goes onto say he lost some weight…aah!

      https://archive.is/Ia5QV

    309. call me dave says:

      @Jim

      Let us know how you got on… 🙂

    310. K1 says:

      Och Jim don’t shoot yersel’ wi that cigar and put that smokin’ gun doon, it’s bad fur yer health1 🙂

    311. Fred says:

      Kezia says of her University Challenge performance, “At least I never disgraced myself!” something she does effortlessly at Holyrood!

    312. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @GB –

      Indeed. Good points.

      I don’t know if your hardback includes this one – it was written as the introduction for Animal Farm but has never been published as Orwell anticipated. (It did appear, curiously enough, as an ‘afterword’ in a recent Penguin edition!)

      Some of our BTUKOK chums would do well to read this, then settle down in front of a mirror to take a long hard look at themselves before formulating resolutions for 2016.

      Orwell, ‘Freedom Of The Press’ –

      http://orwell.ru/library/novels/Animal_Farm/english/efp_go

    313. K1 says:

      Macart

      ‘In May we remove their self serving stain on our parliament and move one step closer to full self government.’

      Ayep, hand them their earse’s on a plate.

    314. Glamaig says:

      Nope, nothing on the BBC website about that Willets chap. Letwin is headlines in the UK politics section. Wales section has a very short piece about Wales-relevant Home Office docs.

      The Scotland pages have not a peep. But ‘SNP hitting poor’ (in quotes of course) in the What the Papers say section.

      So the only places Ive seen that Willets story so far are the Guardian and Independent – where most Scots wont see it.

    315. ronnie anderson says:

      @ call me dave Davidson reading the Runes from a long way out, he must hiv seen the Bayonets reversed ,the ruins of Slab will last long into the future lol.

    316. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Letwin is a jaded fop who ended up here via a wormhole connected to an eighteenth-century coffee-house, and no-one should be surprised or distracted by shite he said three decades ago – the outraged should exercise their critical faculties on more recent statements from the likes of IDS, May and The Pigpesterer General.

    317. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood For those of us that lived through the Thatcher years its a insight to the NO VOTERS of the Contempt the Tories hold the Citizens of this Country & more so our Older Scottish NO VOTING Residents & our Younger Generation will see the contempt Scottish People are held in by Westminster,its all grist to the mill,however late.

    318. Legerwood says:

      Dunx @ 11.35 and Lenny Hartley @ 12.25

      From the 1560s until the early 19th Century poor relief was the responsibility of the Church of Scotland working through the individual parishes. The First Book of Discipline set out the system which was designed to support those in need so that they could stay in their own parishes and homes.

      The weekly offerings, and in times of extreme hardship, the application of the assessment rate formed the basis of the poor funds.

      Generally the funds were used to support the elderly and infirm and pay for the education of orphans and, when times were hard such as the recession of 1772-3 payments would be made to families, particularly farmworkers, who had lost their jobs and probably their homes. There was as with most things a degree of variability in the system and its application but it did provide a safety net of sorts when nothing else existed.

      As to the Act referred to by Dunx and the re-location of people back to their parish of origin this did not apply in Scotland. It was an Act of the English parliament. Also, in Scotland, when people moved Parishes they would, as often as not, join the local church of Scotland and so become members of that Parish and able to access the poor funds if at some point they fell on hard times.

      The closest the Church of Scotland came to anything resembling relocation was the licensing of the poor in the parishes. This allowed them to beg within their own parish but not to go to other parishes to do so. One way of stopping economic migrants if you like.

      The First Statistical Account of Scotland published in the 1790s covers all of the parishes in Scotland and their poor relief amongst other things.

    319. ArtyHetty says:

      I see today RT news has a main story in their yookay bit, ‘Scotland, 51% rise in kids going to school hungry, stealing food’. Does anyone know more on this and where the story originated? I noticed it on fb yesterday.

      Great posts all, and fab links thanks, lots to read next couple of days.

    320. Effijy says:

      On holiday with dreadful weather outside, I watched this morning’s Movie Waterloo. (Napoleon Vs Wellington),

      What an eyeopener with the director trying to show the battle in its true and realistic form with blow by blow accounts of the tactics used by the 2 leaders.

      The horrors of war, death and mutilation, were well depicted, but my attention was taken by the actions of the Scottish Soldiers.

      When the French first broke through the “British” lines, the General of the Gordon Highlanders was instructed to “Take your Bastards and block this breech”.

      A later action seen Wellington direct the First Cavalry Charge
      at the French Canons.
      You guessed it-he sent in the Scots Greys to be blown to pieces.
      He did instruct his bugler to sound the retreat to save some of them, but the noise of the Bugle disturbed his concentration and so he stopped the call.

      A further episode revealed that the Gordon’s were the first regiment to report that they were almost out of ammunition, only 5 rounds per man? It seems that they were at the front firing at the French while the English Soldiers took shelter behind them, yet ready to advance once the Scots were wiped out.

      As the battle turned away from the French to the British, one of the young English Officers stepped forward to lead his infantry
      with the cry of “Glory for England”.

      Some of you may be aware that many of the Scots soldiers were
      there as an alternative to death by destitution or deportation, or potentially the eviction of their parents from the farms they worked for their English Lairds.

      All of that was supposed to be a long time ago, but I thought it very strange that almost all peaking parts belonged to those
      fighting in the English and Welsh regiments while the Scots seemed to be leading the most relevant actions?

      Were you aware that in WW11 the Scottish Regiments made up over 25% of the UK casualties, while they didn’t have 10% of the UK population?

      Could England still have been using Scots soldiers as canon fodder 100 years after Waterloo.

      Of course England would treat the Scots that way in the modern eara, Well perhaps if we look at their Lies regarding McCrone report and our oil revenues making us capable of being the 3rd richest country in the world. or perhaps Mr Willets comments
      from 30 years ago showing the Scots to be a “Jucie source for further cuts”.

      Of course this was all in the past, just like the Poll Tax.

      Could the abuse of the English using the UK Central Fund to furnish new London Sewers, Airports, High Speed Trains be considered as a contemporary form of disdain for our own little corner of their empire?

      Yes, you had better believe it is!
      Make ready for a complete kicking from your English Masters in the run up to May’s elections.

    321. Skip_NC says:

      callmedave, that is a fascinating link. I may be missing something from 3,000 miles away, but is Ian Davidson the sane voice of the Labour Party in Scotland?

    322. call me dave says:

      Hootsman must be finding it hard to fill the paper but reheats the festive leftovers for our political edification.
      Nice pic of Sturgeon though.

      https://archive.is/9Isnn

    323. Glamaig says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      agreed – but it is an interesting wee illustration of how the BBC reports, or doesnt.

    324. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ledger wood @ 1.32

      The act was an English act enabling the transportation of Scots and Irish who had no means of support back to the country of origin. What happened when they were dumped in a port often a distance from whence they hailed and they were not a member of a Parrish I know not.

      What I’m pointing out is that in this so called Union apartheid was practised, there was no similiar Act for English people becoming destitute in Scotland and Ireland being forceably transported back to England.

    325. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ronnie Anderson –

      You are a forgiving and charitable sort, but not all of us are.

      I’m way past the point of trying to ‘persuade’ any BTUKOK types that they are wrong. If they still can’t see that they were duped in Sep 2014 then no amount of factual evidence is going to sway them. They’re selfish, stupid and arrogant in equal measure, and there’s no way I’m wasting a minute on any of them.

      Just out of interest – can anyone remember even ONE ‘No’ voter coming on here to publicly state that they’ve changed their mind and regret voting as they did? Seriously – no-one can read all the comments and I may have missed it happening, but have we had any since the indyref?

      It’s one thing to be charitable, patient and forgiving (or is that three things?!) but it’s another to keep wasting valuable time and energy on folk who are as smug as they are dense. I’ve noted some commenters referring to ‘No’-voting friends. I don’t, and won’t have any such people as ‘friends’ – I don’t want anything to do with any of them. Basic civility? Aye, but nothing more.

      Good luck to those who keep trying, but some of us gave up a long time ago.

    326. schrodingers cat says:

      Just out of interest – can anyone remember even ONE ‘No’ voter coming on here to publicly state that they’ve changed their mind and regret voting as they did?

      ian, wrt hard ukok supporters, I take your point but not all 55% you voted no fit into that category, how many soft nos there are, I don’t know but if the polls are to be believed, support for indy has increased in the last 14months and is probably about 50/50 now. whether they come on here and say they have changed their mind doesn’t change the fact that many have indeed changed their mind.

      I find that comforting

    327. Naeidea says:

      Took the test yesterday and found refuge in strong drink. I fell in to the 41.67% camp. Nae idea right enough. Mind you, I think I’ve only been a Wings addict since May.

    328. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says:

      “Letwin is a jaded fop who ended up here via a wormhole connected to an eighteenth-century coffee-house, and no-one should be surprised or distracted by shite he said three decades ago”

      Very eloquently put Ian Brotherhood as only a Scot could.

    329. Glamaig says:

      @ArtyHetty
      A more recent example – everybody’s heard of Dunkirk right?
      St Valery? – not so much. 51st Highland Division sacrificed, as a gesture of support to the French while the rest of the BEF evacuated. Fought to the bitter end, 10000 prisoners, salt mines for them.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a1120861.shtml

    330. TD says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 1:50 p.m.

      Your position is one of despair for those of us who support independence. Unless we persuade at least some of those who voted No to vote Yes next time, we will get the same result. The demographics might change, but to get independence we would need a significant majority of new voters – those too young to vote the last time but eligible to vote the next time – to support independence. That would be nice if it happened, but I don’t think we should rely on it. Persuasion of No voters last time to vote Yes next time has to be the way forward – and that means engaging with them.

    331. Proud Cybernat says:

      Come on folks.

      99,923 Don’t Bomb Sysria Petition. If we can get it to 100,000 then it gets heard in the HoC.

      Only 77 more needed. Surely we can find 77 more signatures among our merry band? Let’s get our First Minister’s petition over the line.

      Sign here:
      http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria

    332. Tam Jardine says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      Having a wee keek at the archive release pertinent to Scotland. Some pretty boring stuff. Then something interesting turned up.

      An instructive and fascinating wee passage from a Scottish Office and Treasury officials entitled ‘Territorial Expenditure’ which I found fairly revealing. The cover letter is dated 23rd July 1986.

      Thatcher had requested the sec of state for Scotland and the Chief sec of the treasury to prepare a note on “how to achieve in practice a substantial real terms cut in Scottish provision, and how any such change could be presented so as to minimise adverse political reaction.”

      One passage stood out from what I have read so far:

      “The Scottish Office also consider that the adverse publicity, which changes of the order being examined will attract, particularly when no comparable changes were being made to English programmes or those of the other territories, would be likely to intensify public and expert scrutiny of the Scottish block and increase the risk of detection of the non-formula reductions which have already been made since 1980.

      The effect of these secret reductions has been to reduce the Scottish block baseline by about £70m in each of the next 3 years ie by percentage amounts greater than the percentage fall in Scotland’s population, although less than the change in relative population would indicate.

      If, as seems not unlikely, this comes to light it would be extremely difficult to explain not only why the earlier changes had not been announced but also why Scotland was being penalised for its fall in population twice over.

      We have been unable to identify convincing arguments which could be used publicly to justify the earlier cuts.”

      Worth bearing in mind the 2 protagonists here: Chief Secretary of the Treasury was one John MacGregor, Baron MacGregor of Pulham Market and the Secretary of State for Scotland was Rt Hon Sir Malcolm Rifkind.

      2 Scots discussing ways to slash spending in Scotland but wary of doing so as it might reveal previous secret budget cuts over and above the percentage fall in population to Scotland hidden from the public. The note was written in 1986 discussing secret budget cuts since 1980 and talking about the effects over the next 3 years. So 9 years of hidden budget cuts.

      Better Together, eh! Will see what else turns up- am about 1% through it.

      Wishing all Wingers a very happy new year when it comes round.

    333. Colmat says:

      41.67 % Tsk,tsk,
      I blame Nicola Sturgeon for the coffee machine question fail….not once in her regular emails did she mention it, not once..
      I should have been told…

    334. Capella says:

      @ Tam Jardine
      interesting snippet. Shows the lying, thieving nature at heart of those politicians. Like thd Willets remarks, these would never see the light of day in the CorpMedia. Good find.

    335. rabthecab says:

      Would you believe I got bang on 50%? And me on an official warning an all 🙂

      See Rev, I do read most of your posts before shooting my mouth off! 😉

    336. Petra says:

      @ gordoz says at 11:50 am …. ”DON’T BOMB SYRIA PETITION ….. Only 80 signatures req’d to complete folks. Can we get a few more from Wings readers to make this happen?” http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria

      Just got another friend to sign Gordoz. Down to 73 signatures required. C’mon folks ….

      Great article from weegingerdug …. will give you a laugh.

      ‘The mystic mutt’s predictions for 2016’

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/12/29/the-mystic-mutts-predictions-for-2016/

    337. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TD (2.28) –

      I hear you and understand what you, Ronnie A and others are saying, but I’m trying hard to be honest, and if that comes across as ‘despair’ then so be it.

      Some people are good at persuading others to listen to reason. But the ‘No’ voters I know personally are – and I may just be unlucky in this regard – the most pig-ignorant self-satisfied dunderheids imaginable. The type of people who ‘secretly’ voted Tory in the Thatcher years and got a real kick out of it too.

      In a healthy, sane Scotland there would never be any need to even mention the name of a character like Letwin, and I’m not persuaded that the release of this ‘gaffe’ will do anything to change the minds of those who simply cannot and will not countenance any change to the status quo – they’re about as likely to vote for independence as I am to vote Tory. It’ll never happen.

      Please don’t get me wrong – I admire Ronnie A, Thepnr, and so many others I’ve come to know who can keep the heid, count-to-ten for the millionth time, and try to explain, in wee short sentences, why this union is killing us. I’m just pointing out that some of us have tried it with our nearest and dearest and it didn’t work – if we can’t even convince them then we should consider contributing to the cause in other ways.

    338. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Skip_NC.

      Ian Davidson is, probably, most infamous for his “bayonet the wounded’ comment in 2013.

      http://action4equalityscotland.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/bayonet-wounded.html

      And here’s the satirical slant on it:-

      http://www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/city-news/565-chairchoob-wounded-by-cybernat-character-assassination.html

    339. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood Never give up & never give in I,ve met quite a few non voters & no voters who regret their decission,the wee guy 43yrs a labour member (Vale Bar)& tore up his membership Bdtt/Ptc/P/rose were there.

    340. Scott says:

      Margaret Thatcher archives: Scots were ‘pampered’ and a ‘juicy’ target for cuts

      Why no mention of this on BBC Scotland lunch time news??

    341. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Tam Jardine no suprise Rifking, Maggie,s arse wipe in Scotland,but keep digging Tam, nae date stamp on LIES or LIERS.

    342. Macart says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Understand perfectly.

      Being a persuader isn’t for everyone, just human nature. Some folk are natural campaigners and activists, like yersel’, others are great diggers looking for information and facts and yet others are good at the meet n’ greet.

      How and ever, right now those who can persuade, talk, explain are the very folks needed. They need to hold out that hand and let those who voted no reluctantly that they’re wanted and their input and change of heart appreciated. More importantly that their contribution, that in fact THEY are needed.

      Each to their own fella. 🙂

    343. Gary45% says:

      O/T
      Just had a wee look at Dipity on Uni challenge.
      Going by her facial expression she should have been on Blankety Blank.
      The wife answered more questions than her, so did I, and I didnae go tae Uni.( my wife did).

    344. The Rough Bounds. says:

      A lot of good comments here today, but several people are still having strange difficulty in understanding the difference between ‘there’ and ‘their’.

      Shall we get this fixed before 2016? The word ‘there’ is used when a sense of direction is involved. You only have to remember that it’s spelled the same as the word ‘where’. So, ‘Where?’ ‘It’s over THERE.’

      ‘Their’ is used when a sense of ownership is involved. It’s their dog. It’s their car. It’s THEIR BAD GRAMMAR that spoils an otherwise coherent comment and makes it difficult to understand. Try this: Imagine that the dot over the letter i is a ball. ‘Who owns that ball?’ ‘It’s THEIR ball’.

      Lastly ‘they’re’. It’s merely a contraction of ‘they are’.

      Onywey, Guid Yule, and a Happy New Year when it comes. Bliadhna Mhath Ur Dhuibh Uile.

    345. Helena Brown says:

      Ian Brotherhood, I can talk for Scotland but as a persuader I am rotten, I am not any good for canvassing but what I can and try to do is contribute money wise.
      I have one awful temper, and No people, and unfortunately I do know them, are as you say self satisfied and completely in agreement with the Establishment. I am sure some have voted Tory as well considering it is Sir this and important person that.
      I am sure we all have our place.

    346. Thepnr says:

      I’ve been beating this drum for a while but to get over the line we do NOT need to persuade the No voters to change their mind.

      The biggest Yes vote was in Dundee, yet even then 21% couldn’t be arsed voting. Second biggest Yes vote, Glasgow where still more than 15% couldn’t be arsed voting.

      I’m guessing you all know who these people are, I certainly can. Concentrate your energies on the Non voters who are without allegiance. They surely will be more open to persuasion than the staunch No.

      Soft No’s and if you know any should be befriended too, as for the rest. Then don’t waste your breath.

    347. North chiel says:

      An interesting post by “effigy” at 0139 pm .I did get the
      strong impression in the preceding 2-3 years prior to the referendum
      that “Scottish troops” appeared to have been “withdrawn” from
      “Frontline” operations in various “hotspots” eg.Afganistan .It appeared to myself
      that most “British casualties” during this period was sustained
      by “RUK units”. I wonder why?

    348. Jack Murphy says:

      From MSN on-line News,quoting from ‘The Independent’ newspaper today:
      “Thatcher was told to cut Scottish budget to win support from ‘the envious north of England’
      As a Downing Street policy advisor, David Willetts told Margaret Thatcher that £900m more was being spent on Scots than on people in England.

      Mr Willetts, who served as science minister under the 2010 Coalition, said in January 1986 that Scotland was “the only juicy target” for further cuts.

      He argued that inflicting cuts on Scotland would win favour with “envious” people in the North of England.

      “Your economic policies stop at the English border,” he said.

      “Ultimately, the question is a political one. The position of the Conservative party in Scotland is so bad that it might not deteriorate any further.

      “And the envious north of England might even welcome an attack on the pampered Scots over the border.” !!! 🙁

      What’s the Leader of the Scottish Conservatives,Ruth Davidson MSP,and her Scottish Labour Bettertogether friends got to say about this?

      I’ll go to BBC Scotland News tonight to find out.

    349. Thepnr says:

      Scottish referendum turnout 2014 84.5%

      Result 55% No 45% Yes

      Quebec referendum turnout 1980 84.6%

      Result 60% No 40% Yes

      Quebec referendum turnout 1995 93.5%

      Result 50.5% No 49.5% Yes

      The Quebec referendum turnout was the highest in Canada history, if Scotland gets a similar turnout next time I believe we can replicate the increase in support for a Yes vote.

      Unlike Quebec II I also believe that Scotland II will not fail.

      Prediction

      Scottish referendum turnout 20?? 95%

      Result No 45% Yes 55%

      Let’s make it happen good people, we are capable of doing so.

    350. Thepnr says:

      By increasing the turnout by 10% the Yes vote in Quebec second time around went up by 10% and the No down by 10%.

      We can do the same. Next time we’ll get it right.

    351. Tam Jardine says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      Further to my last post there is an interesting exchange between the Scottish Office and the Treasury on the proposed substantial cuts to the Scottish block grant and the presentation of these cuts to the public.

      The Scottish Office’s case, annotated as “This is the Scottish Office case why cuts are impossible” paints an honest and damning picture of why slashing the block grant to Scotland would be impossible.

      It is worth reminding anyone who is reading that we are in the middle of the 1980s and the North Sea oil and gas tax revenues are at their peak- £28 billion in 1984-85 and £25 billion in 1985-1986 according to the Scottish Government’s figures in 2014.

      The Scottish Office points out:

      “-hospital waiting lists in Scotland are 12% longer than in England

      -morbidity and mortality rates are much higher in Scotland- Glagsow has the highest incidence of lung cancer in the world

      -27% of Scotttish children leave school with no qualifications against 10% in England

      -pupil-teacher ratios in nursery schools are 25% lower in Scotland than England

      -Scotland’s land area is 60% of that in England, resulting in much higher requirements (based on relative population sizes) for roads, police, general medical practitioners etc

      -Scotland’s housing – both public and private- is generally older than England’s there is a large backlog of improvement grant claims approved but unpaid”

      So the oil revenues from the North Sea are at their peak and the Scottish health service, mortality rates, morbidity rates, education and housing standards are all lagging behind England using key indicators. Plus it is much more expensive providing services to Scotland due to the large land mass and relatively small population.

      No cuts then? The treasury rebuttal is amazing- it actually ignores all of the points above, picks out some stats which show public spending is higher in Scotland… and that is it.

      According to the treasury, slashing the Scottish block grant would be fair and not difficult to achieve even though oil revenues are fuelling the 80’s boom and Scotland has already been getting secretly fucked over by hidden cuts disproportionate to population decreases over the previous 6 years.

      The Scottish Office understanding of the issues faced by Scotland reads as a plea not to slash the budget as it would be inequitable to make a bad situation worse in Scotland. But that bad situation was a blessing for Westminster.

      They were secretly slashing the budget in Scotland already- it appears that the population decrease, high mortality and morbidity in Scotland in the 80s was a desirable circumstance that allowed them to go some way (just some way, mind) towards justifying ideological spending cuts.

    352. gerry parker says:

      The Rough Bounds.@ 3:37

      I see you used it’s correctly.

      🙂

      Best wishes for the new year, Although I should add that I think this time of the year is one big con perpetrated by people who do not have our best interests at heart, it’s just like a virus, few are immune.

      I celebrate the shortest day, it’s enough for me.

    353. Thepnr says:

      @Tam Jardine

      Amazing revelations, all in the name of ideology.

      I fucking hate the word ideology:

      a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.

    354. Robert Peffers says:

      For those who found the article on the Vagrancy Acts may find this this reference of interest :-

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo4/5/83/contents

      The language used in the Act is, in itself, hair-raising.

    355. Petra says:

      @ ArtyHetty says at 1:34 pm ”I see today RT news has a main story in their yookay bit, ‘Scotland, 51% rise in kids going to school hungry, stealing food’. Does anyone know more on this and where the story originated?”

      Artyhetty The National has this on their front page today (and two page spread inside).

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/the-hunger-games-austerity-is-leaving-pupils-so-hungry-they-steal-from-classmates.11773

      Scotland one of the richest countries in the World and our children are having to resort to asking other children for food or actually stealing food. Absolutely heart-breaking.

      Teachers (three quarters surveyed by the EIS – no overall number given) also reporting that ”there has been an increase in the number of children displaying signs of anxiety, stress and other mental health problems”. Just over half said that ”they had noticed an increase in physical health problems including headaches, lethargy and weight issues”.

      Increase in the number of children that don’t have a winter jacket or coat to wear. Teachers making toast and providing fruit in classrooms. More and more children not having a ‘play piece’. It goes on and on and is a damning indictment of what it’s like for Scottish children living in the Better Together UK and that’s just a survey of schoolchildren. What about the babies and toddlers .. the 0-5 year olds … some starving (and freezing), no doubt, during the most crucial (holistic) developmental period of their lives. Research findings show that damage done during these critical years, physical and psychological, is practically totally irreversible. How are they all fairing?

      So thanks (NOT) to the Corrupt Unionist Media, the Johann Lamonts, Kezia Dugdales, Jackie Baillies, Ruth Davidsons, Jim Murphys, Willie Rennies, Magrit Currans, Alistair Darlings, Gordon Browns and JK Rowlings (et al) of the World ….. hundreds of thousands of Scots are living in abject poverty …. with UK Government research findings / statistics predicting that there’s even worse to come.

      Labour the party that wants us all to be part of a Country, a Union, that is in the top four of the most inequitable countries in the civilised World. Very telling, eh? Labour that has clearly turned its back on the poor with a plethora of evidence to support this statement: Far too much ‘data’ to post on here.

      They influenced (and continue to attempt to influence) people to vote NO, through lying, coercion and fear-mongering, whilst they all carry regardless stuffing their faces and bank accounts. No empty food cupboards, coat hangers or freezing beds where they come from. They should all be hanging their heads in shame.

      Something for them to watch at the ‘Bells’ whilst toasting their Better Together Union and remember that the situation has worsened dramatically since this was first produced.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZQT3-dHM84

    356. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Tam Jardine –

      🙂 Soo-perb.

      That’s the meat (‘juicy’!) of a great article, and precisely the type of thing non-persuaders like me need – I can just stick it in front of their big gormless BTUKOK coupons without having to say a single word.

    357. galamcennalath says:

      Thepnr says:

      “… turnout next time I believe we can replicate the increase in support for a Yes vote.”

      I agree completely. The biggest potential gain in Yes is to get turn out in Yes voting areas up to the levels of No voting areas.

      Next time, we are aware of our strengths and weaknesses, and both need built on. Turnout among those most likely to vote Yes, was a weakness.

      A BIG weakness for NO was that a quarter of NO voters gave their primary reason as being “extra powers” would be delivered and they could have the “best of both worlds”. WM has left themselves wide open to attack on this, and these NO voters are low hanging fruit for conversion.

      The area which both Yes and No voters gave as important to their decision was the NHS. I would wager those who voted Yes because of the NHS realised it is already Scottish controlled but threatened by WM cutbacks, while No voters thought it was a UK wide institution and therefore could be lost by Indy.

      A concerted campaign to ensure everyone understands the status of the SHS and where threats actually lie, would reinforce Yes support and gain more No conversion.

      Targeting of specific groups will lead to an overall swing big enough to win.

    358. TD says:

      Thepnr 3:43 p.m.

      Let’s just take your point about non-voters last time to its logical conclusion. We need to make assumptions of course and these are open to challenge. But for the moment, indulge me.
      The turnout nationally was 84.6%, so 15.4% did not vote. Let’s make the first assumption – that we can get half of these non-voters to turn out the next time so the turnout would be 92.3%. I think that is optimistic, because those who did not vote despite the energy and passion of the referendum are really just not interested, but let’s run with it. 50% of 15.4% is 7.7%. Then we need to make another assumption about how many of these will vote the way we want them to, i.e. Yes. Let’s assume 75%, which is again optimistic. So 75% of 7.7% is 5.78%. That gives Yes an additional 247,000 votes. The rest of the new voters would vote No giving No about 82400 extra votes. So taking the 2014 result as a base and ignoring population and demographic changes the result in Indyref 2 would be:

      Yes 2014 1,617,989 plus New Votes 247,104 Total 1,865,093

      No 2014 2,001,926 plus New Votes 82,368 Total 2,084,294

      We would still lose. Now you could of course make even more optimistic assumptions about how many of the 15.4% you can get to vote and how many of them would vote Yes. But I think that would be stretching things. The truth of the matter is that to win a future independence referendum, we need to persuade large numbers of those who voted No to vote Yes. We should not regard 2014 No voters as the enemy – instead we should regard them as potential Yes voters. We need to sell them the idea of a progressive independent Scotland and we will not do that by attacking them, insulting them or ignoring them. Attack the unionist politicians and their lackeys in the media by all means, but the No voters are the people we need to persuade.

    359. Scott says:

      Just saw this.

      Serious road collapse on @A93_Scotland Braemar to Ballater road.

      This is the fault of the SNP and Jackie Baillie is calling on our First Minister for a full investigation and why maintenance has not been carried out and what about the HGV who will be hard hit with this failure,it has also been said that the same JB has emailed the Queen for her reaction.All tongue in cheek
      Serious I hope they get it fixed soon

    360. Legerwood says:

      Lenny Hartley @1.48

      I know it was an Act passed by the English Parliament before the Act of Union in 1707.

      Was it still enforced after the Act of Union? Probably given the number of other discriminatory Acts passed by the English Parliament prior to The Act of Union that remained in place after 1707 despite the fact they were supposed to be repealed.

      But the main point I was making, or trying to make, was that Scotland had a system in place to support the poor and those in need long before the 1707 and one that remained in place long after the Union took place.

    361. Tam Jardine says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      The archive seems to be just randomly scanned documents so you don’t get a proper flavour of the timeline.

      What becomes clear is:

      -the treasury were secretly reducing the block grant set by the Barnet formula throughout the 80’s

      -every official (outside of the Scottish Office) was very keen (some like Willets were desperate) to reduce the Scottish block grant over and above the reduction already secretly implemented

      -they found it difficult to justify as the baseline had already been cut and any further cuts would be in full knowledge of the higher relative need (for higher expenditure to provide services) and in full knowledge of the health and educational attainment problems in Scotland.

      -the other UK ‘regions or ‘territories’ are barely mentioned- there is no driving force for cuts to Wales, Northern Ireland or regions of England.

      -as the conclusion had been reached already that the Scottish block grant needed further cuts, a study on the needs of Scotland was not desirable as it may not come to the ‘right’ conclusions.

      -they toyed with a one off readjustment of the block grant justified by relative population decreases in Scotland but we’re worried that if they did that the public would find out that the block grant had already been cut along these lines in secret.

    362. Effijy says:

      My apologies for this earlier post were a typing error showed the Scottish Fatalities of World War One as WW11. Sorry!

      On holiday with dreadful weather outside, I watched this morning’s Movie Waterloo. (Napoleon Vs Wellington),

      What an eyeopener with the director trying to show the battle in its true and realistic form with blow by blow accounts of the tactics used by the 2 leaders.

      The horrors of war, death and mutilation, were well depicted, but my attention was taken by the actions of the Scottish Soldiers.

      When the French first broke through the “British” lines, the General of the Gordon Highlanders was instructed to “Take your Bastards and block this breech”.

      A later action seen Wellington direct the First Cavalry Charge
      at the French Canons.
      You guessed it-he sent in the Scots Greys to be blown to pieces.
      He did instruct his bugler to sound the retreat to save some of them, but the noise of the Bugle disturbed his concentration and so he stopped the call.

      A further episode revealed that the Gordon’s were the first regiment to report that they were almost out of ammunition, only 5 rounds per man? It seems that they were at the front firing at the French while the English Soldiers took shelter behind them, yet ready to advance once the Scots were wiped out.

      As the battle turned away from the French to the British, one of the young English Officers stepped forward to lead his infantry
      with the cry of “Glory for England”.

      Some of you may be aware that many of the Scots soldiers were
      there as an alternative to death by destitution or deportation, or potentially the eviction of their parents from the farms they worked for their English Lairds.

      All of that was supposed to be a long time ago, but I thought it very strange that almost all peaking parts belonged to those
      fighting in the English and Welsh regiments while the Scots seemed to be leading the most relevant actions?

      Were you aware that in WW1 the Scottish Regiments made up over 25% of the UK casualties, while they didn’t have 10% of the UK population?

    363. Effijy says:

      Many Thanks to everyone who has helped to add new names to the
      First Minister’s petition below. We are now only 65 signatures
      away from the 100,000 target with one day of the year remaining.

      So if you have a Brother in Anstruther, or a Friend in Lands End, who hasn’t signed, please send the link below to them!

      The First Minister’s petition to stop bombing innocents in Syria is still 104 signatures away from its 100,000 target.

      The numbers isn’t increasing now yet we are so close.

      We must show our support for Nicola, the Party, and the people of Syria.

      If you have a Grand Dad in Baghdad, a Sister in Bicester, or a Niece in Nice who hasn’t yet signed this petition, Please send them the Link below!

      http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria?mc_cid=86a2a6caac&mc_eid=2ca6f3edb9

    364. Glamaig says:

      Shock – ‘Scotland a juicy target for cuts’ just reported on Radio Scotland news.

      So maybe in this case they were just dozy and slow off the mark. Or shamed into it by Wings.

      @Tam
      Impressive work – lets see if Radio Scotland report that. Think what Wings could do if it had BBC Scotlands budget.

    365. jdman says:

      Low Moss Prison maks breed, looks guid anaw, dae they deliver?

    366. handclapping says:

      @John DeMan
      Thats an odd question, I thought Lochgelly was already part of the prison estate.

    367. jdman says:

      Flooding, what part of, we need to plant more trees is hard to understand? we need to really start a campaign to get those idiots in Westminster and Brussels to understand, dredging rivers only sends the problem downstream, get trees planted on the high ground problem solved!

    368. Papadox says:

      Cooncilor Colly Smyth (Dumfries) SLAB DUFFER

      Scottish Government (SNP) bad, very very Bad NAE money. Scottish Government (SNP) very very very Bad. What about David Cameron PM. (SNP) very very very bad. What about Cameron???
      SNP BAAAAAD!

      EBC ANTI SCOTS PROPAGANDA

    369. jdman says:

      Handclapping
      Hahaha a news report on tv showed in Low Moss prison in Bishopbriggs is rehabilitating prisoners by giving them a trade and they are working in a bakery in the prison and making bread and sundry fancies for local eateries and I have to say the produce looked good enough to eat.

    370. jdman says:

      Oh, and Im a trusty,
      Aa get tae leave logelly when Aa waant.

    371. Kennedy says:

      Only 54.7%

      Must admit I guessed some of them. I used logic and intelligence. That was a mistake.

      Should have cheated.

    372. Thepnr says:

      @TD

      No disagreement from me on doing what we can to convert the soft No voter, in fact I said so at the end of my post you were quoting from, “Soft No’s and if you know any should be befriended too”

      Did you though read my later posts that show evidence (the only evidence their is to my knowledge) that an increase in turnout of x% resulted in a similar increase of x% for a Yes vote?

      Just saying like.

    373. handclapping says:

      @John
      I dunno about these new fangled ways. Its traditional for a file to be passed into prison in baked goods. I’d be wondering if there was a broken tooth to be had in the files passed out of prison in their baked goods. Maybe not too bad with a nail file in a roll but I’d pass on their baguettes.

    374. thomaspotter2014 says:

      Thepnr@6.59

      Call me para Thepnr but I believe the highest turnout figures(90+% aye right?) were manufactured to accommodate the fraudulent fix that was the NO vote.Plus all the dodgy postal votes.

      Pelters expected.But there you go

    375. jdman says:

      Don’t be so judgemental Hanclapping
      here’s one they made earlier
      http://tinyurl.com/gtf4q92
      for…eh Stu?

    376. Thepnr says:

      @thomaspotter2014

      No pelters from me 🙂

      You can though only work with the numbers that are available, I still believe that 1+1=2

    377. Dr Jim says:

      The Tories are forced to apologise to black people for their racism but not to Scots because although we were a “juicy target for cuts” lazy drunks, subsidy junkies and extremists

      That’s all just a bit of banter, a joke, a whimsy,

      Can’t you Bastard moaning Jocks take a joke!!

      If we were black we’d have won the Referendum hands down
      with the EU supporting us and condemning the English for their Racism

    378. TD says:

      Thepnr @ 6:59 p.m.

      I think the statement that sent me off into a spreadsheet to calculate the effect of relying on persuading non-voters to vote next time was this one:

      “but to get over the line we do NOT need to persuade the No voters to change their mind.”

      That is what I took issue with because it is patently untrue. And no I did not read your later posts because I had disappeared into Excel and posted my comment as soon as I had done the calculations. Will go back and read them now.

    379. schrodingers cat says:

      Thepnr
      I still believe that 1+1=2

      1+1=3

      but only for large values of one 🙂

    380. Thepnr says:

      @TD

      Just to clarify my statement of “but to get over the line we do NOT need to persuade the No voters to change their mind.”

      My intent was to highlight the fact that if we persuaded even half the 15% of voters that didn’t vote to join the Yes side then that would be enough to win without having changed any No voters minds.

    381. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ledgerwood 5.35pm

      yes it was enacted after the Union, and given that the Irish were also included points to it being after 1800. I spend several hours this afternoon searching the Herald Online Archives and could not find the feature. I did cut it out at the time so I will have it somewhere, it may take some time before it surfaces 🙂

    382. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      thomaspotter2014 at 7.09

      Exactly right. Five areas achieved over 95% on postal votes which was virtually impossible(and over 90% nearly everywhere else).
      This gets pooh poohed all the time but not by anybody explaining sensibly how it was achieved.
      Obviously nobody died from the time applications were applied for, nobody went to hospital and forgot about their postal vote, nobody just decided to go down to the polls physically (which normally is about 15% of postal vote applications).Nobody just decided not to vote.
      The Russians (who had offered to help supervise)went away shaking their heads
      Utter bollocks.

      Thankfully the Scottish Government has decided we will supervise the next referendum

    383. thomaspotter2014 says:

      Dave McEwan Hill@7.49

      Amen to that Dave.

    384. thomaspotter2014 says:

      By the way got 54% in the quiz but hoping for 74% YES in the next true run referendum.

      That’ll do nicely.

    385. crazycat says:

      @ Dave McEwan Hill

      nobody just decided to go down to the polls physically (which normally is about 15% of postal vote applications)

      If you have applied for a postal vote, you cannot vote in person, except by handing your postal ballot in at the polling station, in its envelope, where it will still be regarded as a postal vote and included in the percentage.

      You can vote in person if you have appointed a proxy, however, provided you reach the polling station before they do.

    386. crazycat says:

      Further to my last post, it’s obvious why someone registered for a postal vote can’t just turn up and vote “normally” – there’s no way for the polling clerk to know whether or not the voter has already submitted a vote by post.

    387. jim watson says:

      jdman says:

      Low Moss Prison maks breed, looks guid anaw, dae they deliver?

      Get in touch with them on twitter @freedom_bakery or with the main man @fountain_matt.

      You can also look at their website http://www.freedombakery.org/

      or do that facebook thingy

      https://www.facebook.com/thefreedombakery

    388. Petra says:

      @ Effijy says at 6:05 pm .. ”Many Thanks to everyone who has helped to add new names to the First Minister’s petition below. We are now only 65 signatures away from the 100,000 target with one day of the year remaining. So if you have a Brother in Anstruther, or a Friend in Lands End, who hasn’t signed, please send the link below to them! The First Minister’s petition to stop bombing innocents in Syria is still 104 signatures away from its 100,000 target. The numbers isn’t increasing now yet we are so close. We must show our support for Nicola, the Party, and the people of Syria. If you have a Grand Dad in Baghdad, a Sister in Bicester, or a Niece in Nice who hasn’t yet signed this petition, Please send them the Link below!

      http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria?mc_cid=86a2a6caac&mc_eid=2ca6f3edb9

      FIFTY THREE signatures required now to get to the 100,000 before the Bells. C’mon!!!!!!

    389. Thepnr says:

      @Petra

      Seconded.

    390. TD says:

      Thepnr @ 7:47 p.m.

      Sorry Thepnr, but it still does not work. Non-voters last time were 658,944. Half of that is 329,472. Yes votes last time were 1,617,989. If we add 329,472 we get 1,947,461. No were 2,001,926 so they would still win.

      The idea that you could get half of the non-voters to vote and that all who did would vote Yes is verging on fantasy, but even then it is not enough. Whether we like it or not (and actually I don’t like it) those who voted No last time are the key to winning next time. We need to convince them. Until we do we will not win. I wish it were not so, but we need to know what we are up against and pretending that we can win without convincing them is delusional.

    391. lumilumi says:

      @ The Rough Bounds @ 3.37pm
      I feel your pain. It also really irks me that native English speakers can’t differentiate between there/their/they’re… Yet I understand why. The’re homophones (=sound exactly the same, mean different) and you need grammar and context to know how to spell them.

      English is a foreign language to me and I learned English spelling differently from any native speaker. I knew I was finally fluent in English when I began to make the same kind of spelling mistakes as native speakers (their/there…)

      On a more serious note. Over the Christmas holidays, I saw my extended family, all of whom I’d say are intelligent, well-educated, well-read, interested in history, society, politics, that type of thing. Even the teenagers. Most of us are sort of lefty-greenies, except my oldest brother is a full-on neolib. (We let him rant, and roll eyes behind his back.)

      They’re all a bit indulgent about my “Scottish obsession” but don’t quite believe me when I explain the facts of what’s going on in Scotland and the UK right now. They cannot believe the MSM press could be as bad as it is and most of all, they cannot believe that the BBC would lie, distort, mislead, and supress the truth.

      My family is concerned about the media in Putin’s Russia but I try to tell them that the UK/”Scottish” media and the BBC is just as bad.

      T-Tip (or whatever that free trade agreement being negotiated between the EU and the US is called) is a threat to democracy, all my family agree on it (except the neolib brother), but they don’t realise what a threat to democracy concentrated media ownership is. Scotland is just a blatant example but they don’t know about it (well, they do now, ha ha!)

      I’ve told them all to have a look at WoS to get an idea. It’s not our fight but if they want to call themselves well-informed…

      On a lighter note. Miniature flags strung along string are a typical/popular Christmas tree decoration in Finland. Mostly people do just Finnish flags, as it originally started about 100 years ago.

      My family have been more inclusive and made all kinds of flags, a few more every year, and now the grandkids take it as a Christmas tradition to draw miniature flags for the tree. We’ve got a string of Finnish flags, a string of EU flags, a sting of American (North and South) flags, a string of Oceanic (incl. Australia and NZ) flags, a string of “subversive” flags (Scotland, Catalonia, Shetland, Orkeny, Cornwall, Bretogne, various Netherlands/Belgian provinces, Greenland, Nunavut, the Sami flag – I even made a prospective rUK flag without the saltire but Wales included).

      This year, I made my favourite for the prospective new NZ flag (black, silver fern, blue, with southern cross) and my brother (the non-neolib one) and the kids made some flags of well-established countries that were still missing.

      My cheeky little brother toyed with the idea of making an ISIS flag. Team it with North Korea and a Nazi flag, the Japanese imperial flag from WW II, Pol Pot’s flag etc. The baddies string of flags. Er… maybe not on our Christmas tree.

      It’s bad enough that we eat “nazi-pies” at Christmas… Traditional Swedish and Finnish Christmas pastries are made of puff pastry with a dollop of plum jam in the middle and then folded into a star shape. Last year some uber-PC worrier in Sweden noticed that if you look at the pastry in a certain way, there’s a swastika there = nazi pies. ha ha.

    392. Tam Jardine says:

      Interesting letter from SOS Scotland Malcolm Rifkind to Thatcher on the 19th February 1986- bear in mind he is one month into the job having replaced George Younger in January. Forgive the long post- the press are not going into any depth so I think it is worth recording this somewhere.

      “George Younger minuted to you on 6th January on whether it would make sense, at this stage to initiate a needs assessment study covering the constituent parts of the United Kingdom. I thought that it would be useful to let you, and colleagues, have my own views, coming fresh to this issue which we are now to discuss on Thursday, 20 February.

      As far as I am aware, the only reason why we are being asked to agree to a new needs assessment study is that it is supposed that there is at present overprovision in Scotland and that, accordingly, the Scotland programme should be subjected to even larger reductions in public expenditure than were agreed in the 1985, and even earlier, surveys.

      There seems to me, however, to be no conclusive evidence either way to show that, when account is taken of relative need, Scotland receives either a disproportionately large or small share of public funding.

      For the reasons George Younger pointed out in his minute of 6 January it would be reasonable for us to base any decisions on the type or quality of information contained in the paper which the Chief Secretary circulated on 20 December.

      So long as needs vary in different parts of the UK so must the level of provision and I fully endorse George Younger’s judgement that the Scotland programme does not represent expenditure in excess of need.

      I must say that I have been struck very forcibly by the magnitude of the contributtions from the Scotland programme which George Younger repeatedly made to assist colleagues in meeting expenditure targets.

      As you will appreciate, most of the savings detailed in the Annex to George’s minute were not known to me previously and I fully share my predecessor’s concern about the political damage that would result if the invisible reductions already made to the Scottish block were ever to become more widely known.

      The effects of these reductions are already very clear. Under our present expenditure plans the Scotland programme’s percentage share of the UK planning total in 1988-89 will have fallen by about 10% compared to 1985-1986 and by no means less than 15% compared to 1978-79.

      These reductions are much greater than could possibly be justified on grounds of change in need.

      The general economix climate in Scotland is not at all encouraging.

      The Chief Secretary refers in his paper to Scotland’s relatively good position but the latest unemployment figures show our unemployment figures show our unemployment rate rising again to 15%. The gap between that rate and the English rate has increased to 1.8%. Average earnings in Scotland continue to run below the GB average contrary to the Chief Secretary’s paper.

      The latest economic trends have tended to exacerbate our political problems in Scotland.

      The deep-felt and widespread concern about the future of our heavy industry has come to a head with the closure of the Gartcosh steel rolling mill which is perceived in many quarters as threatening the survival of the Ravenscraig plant and thus of steel manufacturing in Scotland.

      Burroughs, one of the sunrise industries which we are relying on to provide replacement jobs for those lost in traditional heavy industries, has recently announced major redundancies.

      The recent announcement of the go-ahead for the Channel Tunnel, with all its implications for the relative future prosperity of the different parts of Great Britain, has done nothing to reduce the sense of injustice felt by many in Scotland.

      The recent placing of MOD orders with Vickers at Barrow rather than the Clyde, the proposed privatisation of the management of Rosyth Dockyard and associated fears of the employment consequences and the payment of cold weather supplements to claimants in parts of England when they are being refused in colder parts of Scotland are just some of the additional factors which are influencing the political climate in Scotland at present.

      I consider that our supporters in Scotland, faced shortly with local authority elections where we will have to fight hard even to maintain our existing positions, would judge it a major political blunder for us to announce the setting up of a new needs assessment study.

      Such a study would inevitably be regarded as a device to cut expenditure provision in Scotland. Nor would it be possible, as George Younger earlier made clear, to avoid any public announcement.”

      The letter continues to discuss the pointlessness of such a study – I won’t transcribe the rest of it but he basically points out that if Scotland or any other country within the UK were found to be under-provided the public would expect the treasury to make up the shortfall. If the study found Scotland or any other country within the UK to be over-provided there would be enormous practical and political difficulties in cutting services.

      He asks Thatcher “Are we collectively willing to face the consequences of sacking nurse, closing hospitals and reducing the size of the police force merely because there are fewer somewhere else?”

      I would be interested to hear what others think- I was struck by Rifkind’s stance that Scotland was not over-provisioned which is at odds with everything coming out of the tory party on this issue for the last few decades. Also ‘the magnitude of contributions from the Scotland programme’ made by Younger ie generous cuts already made to help balance the UK books.

      Rifkind’s fear at the invisible reductions already made to the Scottish block grant becoming public is palpable- the spending had been slashed by 15% since the tories got in in 1979.

      Never mentioned but always in my mind when reading this stuff is backdrop of the UK exchequer benefiting from oil revenues- £25 billion during the year in question. To put it in some sort of context the Scottish block grant being discussed appears to be £7 billion.

    393. Thepnr says:

      @TD

      Thanks, I appreciate the exact figures, so half of the non voters leaves us shy by 55,000 or so.

      Fair point, we need then to convince slightly more than half and any soft No’s we get will be a welcome bonus.

      My whole point at the end of the day is that those that chose not to vote at all are mainly in the poorest areas and good targets for persuasion.

      Unlike a certain other, now bereaved Reverend that was well known for crying NEVER NEVER WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN. We have a better chance of persuading the former rather than the latter.

      One is ignorant of the facts, the other just plain ignorant.

    394. Tam Jardine says:

      Before I switch off to watch Screenwipe 2015, I just want to point out that the David Willetts stuff seems fairly innocuous compared with the other material released in the archive. If we rely on the Guardian to tell us what is and is not pertinent we will miss out on getting a much clearer picture of the situation.

      We are being fed a load of shit. I would be surprised if a cast iron case for independence isn’t right there in the documentation released over the years.

    395. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Tam Jardine –

      Always did say Malcolm R was one of the good guys! 😉

    396. K1 says:

      Tam…my fury is just rising and rising, they utter despicable bastards, this is ‘news’, this should be on the front page of every fucking paper in Scotland.

      They destroyed a generation…a whole fucking generation of people’s lives…for what?

      For nothing but spite, nothing but sheer fucking racist spite, I could learn to hate at this stage of my life with every fibre of my being.

      This is the proof, writ large of a nation oppressed economically, culturally and more saliently deliberately by the English government. They have never told a truth about Scotland economically – ever.

      It’s been nothing but black propaganda, they shafted us whilst stealing all the revenues from the oil for themselves.

      I have tears of rage in my eyes. Utter fucking bastards…

    397. Petra says:

      @ TD at 5:11pm ……”The truth of the matter is that to win a future independence referendum, we need to persuade large numbers of those who voted No to vote Yes. We should not regard 2014 No voters as the enemy – instead we should regard them as potential Yes voters. We need to sell them the idea of a progressive independent Scotland and we will not do that by attacking them, insulting them or ignoring them. Attack the unionist politicians and their lackeys in the media by all means, but the No voters are the people we need to persuade.”

      Spot on TD. Many of these NO voters were duped by the Corrupt Unionist Media. Some of course will always have an allegiance with Westminster however we don’t have a clear idea as to who is who. We, on these sites, are acting as role-models for the Independence cause and castigating the very people we NEED to get our Independence doesn’t make sense. I’ve referred no voters to this site in the past and then been horrified to see that someone has been calling NO voters every bad name under the sun. How on earth is that helping our cause?

      All we can do, imo, is enlighten ourselves on sites like this and in turn hope to enlighten others by disseminating data all over the Internet. Phone in / e-mail valid complaints to the BBC, STV, newspapers and so on. Knock on doors, stand in the streets with placards and support newspapers such as the Sunday Herald and The National (other real sources of relevant knowledge).

      I see, for example, that Aldis is doing so well in Scotland that they’re planning to open 8 more stores. I reckon that’s not just because money is short but because many of us are avoiding Tesco etc and shopping there and in Lidls instead. They don’t sell the National so we should email them requesting that they do so, as I and many others did in relation to Morrisons.

      Just starting a conversation in a pub, shop or whatever can make a real difference. I was standing in a VERY long queue in Matalan recently and struck up a conversation with the elderly woman behind me. We got round to talking politics and she said ”Ach one party is as bad as the other”. I mentioned a couple of key facts and the young girl (teenager) in front of me started smiling, butt in and said ”Aye and do you know that they could dissolve Holyrood tomorrow”. I nearly fell on my back! By the time we had split up there was no doubt she was having second thoughts. The same thing happened today when I was buying The National. I turned to the woman beside me, held up the front page …. starving children stealing food, and said isn’t that a disgrace. We then started talking about Trident, bombing Syria and children starving.

      A few days ago I managed to convert a NO voter (lifelong Labour supporter), a mechanic (friend of a relative) who came to my house to have a look at my car. He was working alongside my husband for hours so when they eventually came into the house I made them ham and eggs etc. We started discussing the Referendum (as I’m inclined to do, lol) and he reckoned that we had got it wrong due to the current oil situation. I started listing our resources, tax we pay etc, etc. Eventually I said Jimmy would you do something for me? Just take a look at these three very short videos. I showed him a High Pay Centre video, the McCrone Report and Stolen Seas.

      The High Pay video highlights the type of inequitable country the LABOUR Party want us to be part of.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ4tlswbLww

      The McCrone Report highlights that we could have been as rich as Switzerland or Norway. Tories and LABOUR hid this from us …. made sure that it didn’t happen.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La56n0tX5Gk

      Stolen Seas highlights how LABOUR, Dewar and Blair, stole 6000sq mls of Scottish Seas and 7 oil wells (behind our backs) and handed them over to England.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfbfldSrJ-0

      Now we’ve seen them all before but he hadn’t seen them at all. He was absolutely flabbergasted after watching them and couldn’t stop talking about how he had been conned. He was raging in fact especially about our stolen seas and Donald Dewar. He said he’d vote yes next time round and that if these three videos were common knowledge no one would ever vote for Labour again. He has a lot of contacts so will no doubt be passing this information around now too.

    398. Lollysmum says:

      Tam Jardine @ 9pm

      You are doing a sterling job Tam in researching the released papers. I have no doubt that your final statement is absolutely true.

      ” I would be surprised if a cast iron case for independence isn’t right there in the documentation released over the years.”

      There is much to be discovered in those old documents-that’s why it’s called ‘Taking out the trash’. Releasing hundreds of documents in one go & assuming that no one has the time to go through them. Wasn’t that how the McCrone Report was released?

      We could really do with a dedicated researcher tasked with going through all documents released to National Archives. A job like that would take possibly several months but it would be worth it.

    399. Dafydd Williams says:

      Hmmm, 25 per cent. Will being a Plaid Cymru member living in Wales count as mitigating circumstances?

    400. lumilumi says:

      @ Tam Jardine

      Thanks for your posts. Makes pretty grim reading. When will people wake up?

      Or, rather, we shouldn’t blame the people but the UKOK state and the MSM for hiding all this.

      The UK is not a democracy, one reason (there are others but I won’t get into it now) is because there’s no free press or press scrutiny – except of one particular party #SNPbad – that tries to challenge the establishment status quo.

    401. Legerwood says:

      Petra,

      I agree with you 100%.

      Making sweeping generalisations about those who voted No and insulting them at every turn will not convert anyone to the cause of Independence and may be counterproductive in that it may cause some Yes voters to have second thoughts when they see the way No voters are treated.

    402. Proud Cybernat says:

      Come on Wingers! Only 46 more signatures needed to get the ‘Don’t Bomb Syria’ petition heard in the House of Commons. Why the hell are we bombing these people? What the hell good will it do short or long term? We shouldn’t be there. Let’s send London a LOUD message from Scotland.

      Come one people – only 46 (aye, 46) more signatures needed to get this into the House of Commons. COME ON! Hundreds of thousands of people read WoS – surely we can find 46 who have not yet added their names to this important petition.

      Add your signture here:

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-slightly-tubby-quiz-of-the-year/

      We need to do this for the people of Syria.

    403. Thepnr says:

      @Tam Jardine

      That last post was brilliant, talk about having your eyes opened!

      Yes, even we here on WoS are ignorant of the facts and truth. Where’s our fucking Scottish media?

      Oh forgot, right here in Wings Over Scotland.

    404. heedtracker says:

      They destroyed a generation…a whole fucking generation of people’s lives…for what?

      Rancid the Graun retells Willets/Snatcher thatcher world

      “The previous year Willetts and senior figures in the Treasury had unsuccessfully argued to scrap the Barnett formula that still guarantees Scotland’s share of public spending. He referred to Scottish “snouts firmly being in the trough”.

      Willets had the whole of the BBC r4 channel to himself again today at 13.45. Pure unadulterated toryboy UKOK propaganda, a whole day of BBC party political broadcasts on behalf of the UKOK BBC tory party. That whole creep show gave up being nothing but tory propaganda a long time but its still shock to listen to it in full tory boy UKOK is the only way for us. Their whole morning was a hagiographical grovel fest to Thatcherism which they probably don’t even know they’re doing, or the creeps just fart out what r4 audience likes to hear.

      Scottish snouts being in their trough, to be more BBC accurate.

      Xmas quiz bonus Q, Is the above toryboy malice 1986 or 2016?

      Bettertogether with these guys, oink oink?

    405. Tam Jardine says:

      … if anyone is getting really pissed off by my posts on the archive docs: have no fear. Paul, Leasky and Magnus are pulling an all nighter going through the archive release with a fine tooth comb in order to put a comprehensive expose in the Herald the morn. When they get wind of a big story there is no stopping them.

      Benstein and Woodward have got nothing on our intrepid trio.

      If you’re reading this boys- don’t go at it too hard!

    406. cirsium says:

      @dave mcewan hill, 7.49

      Was it the Russian Government which offered to monitor? When was the offer made?

    407. One_Scot says:

      Now ’45’ Sigs needed

      http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria

    408. Tam Jardine says:

      Thepnr and others

      Thanks for your kind words. This link is the one I have been looking at but this is just one of the many categories within the Prime Minister’s Office Files 1986-1988 and I am about one third through it.

      http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C15189606

      The wider archive covering key events and cabinet changes during this period are in there too: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/news/newly-released-files-from-1986-88/http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C15189606

      Fire in- I am scratching the surface of one document from one sub-category from one category from this latest archive.

    409. One_Scot says:

      Scrub that.

    410. garles says:

      Papadox says:
      30 December, 2015 at 6:56 pm

      Cooncilor Colly Smyth (Dumfries) SLAB DUFFER

      Aye one of the cooncilors wasting £16M on a bloody swimining pool not fit for purpose.But nae money for Mark Franklands food bank.Hopefully we can get rid of Dr E Murray next year

    411. Lollysmum says:

      Tam Jardine at 8.54pm

      Tam-your post refers to George Younger’s minute of 6th January 1986 & also to an annex document. Has the annex been released as well as the minute? Figures tend to be hidden away in an annex or appendix & are rarely looked at. Most people just read the summary of the main document & the truly revelatory stuff is missed completely.

      I also wouldn’t trust the Herald to report on anything they may find. It’s just so not what they do-they hide important things from Scots. Or was that a wee tongue in cheek comment on your part?

      Rev -how about a section on released govt documents in your Reference section? Tam’s doing a great job & I’m sure none of us would want to see these particular posts just get lost in the 500,000 comments made on this site.

      Tam-I for one won’t get fed up with your posts-they are fascinating to read & will answer questions that I’m sure many of us have. Are you able to get copies of the documents i.e. as .pdf downloads? I’ve no idea where you are reading them from but I’d be happy to help out for a few days if I can.

    412. Footsoldier says:

      Thought I was an expert, yet only 37.5%.

    413. Kenny says:

      While I am not sure that there is a case for independence in the documents, I have always maintained that there is certainly material for an international court case — stolen waters, deliberate asset stripping from 1980s, concealment of McCrone Report and UK civil service non-neutrality in indyref1 (remember, those civil servants were 8-10% paid for by Scottish money).

      I also think people should start to be VERY alert now. Diplomats, spies and all the rest know things well in advance, they know what is in the water… Does anyone really think Scotland will NOT be independent by 2030? I can imagine the insiders have all come out at a figure of 2022-25 (personally, I would put the outside figure at 2020 and still say 2017).

      If Westminster believed that there was a case for turning the tide, converting YES voters to NO, you can believe we would be showered in fake gifts, a big PR campaign and maybe even a few REAL crumbs from the table.

      But there is NONE of that. It now looks as if Westminster is planning to try and devastate our clean-energy industry before it even takes off (we have all the natural resources to be the European leader by a mile).

      Couple this with the fact that a future indy Scotland would pursue social-democratic policies backed up by all the wealth of these said natural resources, oil, food, water and whisky exports. England is a net importer with a horrific current account imbalance. This would get even worse without us, while they will implement Daily Mail type neoliberal policies, foreign wars, Osborne’s crooked privatisation deals, selling the remaining family silver to China, City corruption, more bank bailouts…

      So it is vital that Scotland is not allowed to succeed. How would it look to the north of England if we took our proper place among such similar-minded nations as Iceland, Norway, Sweden, while the good people of north England become the new “Jocks” to be frozen out of everything good happening in the SE England?

      I think now is the time for some sort of new “People’s Covenant” or “Declaration of Intent”. Under the Treaty of Union and the UK constitiution, the 56 SNP MPs are actually the legitimate voice of the people of Scotland. They could declare UDI and it would be constitutionally legal. So now I think is the time for them — or maybe the YES movement, as long as we had 50% of the people of Scotland, in an online petition — to publicly state to Westminster:

      “If you have information or intelligence that Scotland is likely to be independent soon, and you do not tell us, but you know this information and then proceed to use our circa 8-10% contributions to deliberately strip our country of her resources and otherwise hold us back, you should be aware that all this can be taken down and used in evidence against you in a future ‘The Sovereign People of Scotland v Ms. B. Windsor’ international court case….”

    414. Robert Peffers says:

      @Petra says: 30 December, 2015 at 9:15 pm:

      ” … We should not regard 2014 No voters as the enemy – instead we should regard them as potential Yes voters.”

      Right on the button, Petra.

      I leave no doubt in anyone’s mind that I am a YES voter. My campervan has YES stickers, My Cottage window has YES stickers and My woolly hat has YES Badges.

      I have always been someone who speaks to everyone in the passing and my wee Papillon Bitch is a trained Therapet, (befriender), who goes to as many people as she can manage to say hello and welcome them.

      The combined effect is that most folk remark on the YES statement being made and that starts a conversation.

      Just honestly answering people’s questions, or even honestly rebutting Unionist accusations, can work wonders. Sometimes not even with the person you are interacting with.

      A surprising number of by-standers will often later approach you with questions but were too shy to speak up at the time they heard you interact with someone else.

      It’s all done very quietly and without rancour – political argument is loved by some of the politically aware but others shy away from confrontation – these are the ones we can win over.

      The trick is in first breaking the ice.

    415. Lollysmum says:

      Tam at 9.47pm
      Your second link just gets me to an Error page. Looking at the makeup of the filename it looks like two web addresses combined-the latter half being your 1st link in the same post

    416. Rock says:

      Ken500,

      “The Green vote = Coburn MEP (20,000) UKIP”

      The Green vote = Mundell, MP, Tory Viceroy of Scotland.

      Vote SNP+SNP for independence.

      Don’t trust the Greens or anyone else.

    417. Kininvie says:

      Since September, I’ve probably spoken personally to a couple of hundred voters and seen the canvass returns for many more.

      There are many entrenched No voters for whom no argument is sufficient to change their minds. Their loyalty is to the UK, full stop. It’s an emotional thing, just as much as an independent Scotland is mostly an emotional thing for us. We need to leave these people alone….time will work its own pressures on them. Insulting them will merely harden their stance.

      But there are still many who remain uncertain, and remain to be convinced. The numbers are probably very close to that 15% who voted No, but went on to give the SNP their vote in 2015. I’m hearing all the same doubts and fears that I heard during indyref…currency, oil, economy, pensions.

      These voters are potentially ours for the taking. But we are not going to do it by continually pointing out the flaws of Westminster without a clear practical vision of what to put in its place. And that’s where we are not measuring up at the moment.

      Common Space is doing its very best to fill that gap. But we need more. I hope that Wings will maybe source some serious new work on the positives for an independent Scotland in the coming year.

    418. Grouse Beater says:

      Am working on an essay tearing strips off tattered Torrance. Can’t think of a better way to begin 2016.

    419. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Yam Jardine

      Brilliant stuff, Tam. Excellent data mining.

      You write:

      “To put it in some sort of context the Scottish block grant being discussed appears to be £7 billion.”

      And that £7 billion would have been money spent in Scotland by Scotland’s (then) Unitary Authorities (Councils). Right?

      As such, these councils would have been responsible ONLY for local services such as health, education, roads, fire, police etc. In short, this Scottish ‘budget’ is for all expenditure actually being made in Scotland and is most likely to exlude spending on what is now called ‘reserved mtters’ i.e. Trident/Defense, FCO, HoL, Pensions, Welfare etc.

      Now, £1 today was worth £0.37p in 1986. So, Scotland’s budget of £7billion in 1986 would be £18.9 billion today. Add on pensions of £16 billion then to run Scotland (excluding Trident/UK Defense, Debt, FCO) would be around £34.9 billion.

      We supposedly send £46 billion in tax to Westminster. So, where has the other £11.1 billion (each year) of Scotland’s money gone (£46bn – £34.9bn)?

      (I know – crude figures used here but I hope you get my drift with this particular perspective. I am simply trying to extrapolate £7bn forward to 2015 and add on Penson costs etc to see what ot would cost Scotland to run the country without all the WM expenditure).

    420. Proud Cybernat says:

      <b?@ Kininvie</b?

      “I’m hearing all the same doubts and fears that I heard during indyref…currency, oil, economy, pensions.”

      World’s wealthiest countries by GDP (PPP):

      1. Qatar.
      2. Macau – N.O.
      3. Luxembourg – N.O.
      4. Singapore – N.O.
      5. Kuwait
      6. Brunei
      7. Norway
      8. United Arab Emirates
      9. Switzerland – N.O.
      10. Hong Kong – N.O.
      .
      .
      .
      24. United Kingdom

      (Source: Wiki.)

      The above countries have THREE things in common.

      1) They are all in the TOP TEN wealthiest nations in the world.

      2) Their population is smaller than Scotland’s or on a par with ours. None of them are large countries.

      3) FIVE of them (those marked N.O. have NO OIL).

      In short then, the political/economic Union of 1707 i.e. the UK, is holding Scotland back, preventing us from achieving our true potential. You only have to look to see how well these other small nations in the list above are doing WITHOUT OIL to imagine a much better future for Scotland.

    421. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      crazycat at 8.07

      Yes.Correct.

    422. Rock says:

      Thepnr,

      “Prediction

      Scottish referendum turnout 20?? 95%”

      The biased unionist Electoral Commission and Labour councils would never allow that sort of turnout in Scotland.

      Except to include those who died during the last 100 years to vote No.

      If we want to win next time, the whole referendum process must be beyond the clutches of the British establishment.

    423. Tam Jardine says:

      Lollysmum

      Hopefully you can get into the archive through the links above at 9.47pm. I haven’t reached the George Younger letter but will hae a look.

      Re the Herald boys- aye… I was just having a wee laugh. They’ll be too busy trying to find an angle to attack the Scottish Government for the bad weather.

      K1

      You make some good points. The truth is I don’t know what else is in there but I do know that we are being misdirected. We are told what is controversial, what is relevant and its bullshit.

      There is too much in your post for me to get into but I like your People’s Covenant or some other form of statement of intent. My feeling is that we need to build the next referendum on a constitution. I also think that whilst the positive case for the union was absent, so too was the negative case for independence. That, perhaps is what we can find.

      What strikes me from what I have read today is that one of the first acts of the new tory government must have been to implement these invisible budget cuts. The tory backbenchers must have been unaware of this (as Malcolm Rifkind was) hence there was a chorus of guys like Willetts and Michael Fallon asking for the Scottish block grant to be slashed unaware that it had already been.

    424. Fred says:

      Same auld, same auld, that frightful auld waxwork Jackie Bird is being wheeled out yet again for your Hogmanay delight!

    425. And the Hogmanay show headline act is…wait for it…the Bay City Rollers.

      BBC Scotland has totally lost the plot.

    426. cearc says:

      Well done Tam, fascinating stuff.

      Your trawling is much appreciated.

    427. Thepnr says:

      @Kininvie

      I totally agree with you re spelling out what we put in place regarding currency and pensions in particular.

      A Scottish pound for me right off the top of my head, regarding pensions the SG needs to make it absolutely clear that that “commitment” is a UK government one and would be part of the negotiations following a Yes vote.

      Our share of the debt would reduce by the amount they are due our national pension fund. Better brains than me could work out the right wording but you get my point.

      By the way, calling you a bam for bragging about your 95% score as the quizmaster was tongue in cheek 🙂

    428. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If you Google ‘Oliver Letwin Scotland’, and get past all the extremely dodgy-looking stuff about him and ‘Scotland Yard’ investigations (blimey, what’s that all about?!) then you get the link below. It’s only had 53 views, and has one of those annoying computer-generated voice-overs. It was ‘published’ almost exactly one year ago.

      Curious, though, that it involves Letwin, Willets, and even drags in oor ain Mags Curran and Stuart Hosie, as well as the late, hugely lamented George Younger:

      ‘Secret papers reveal push to ‘trailblaze’ poll tax in Scotland’:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmqUlV2Mpxw

    429. Kenny says:

      I agree that we have to make a positive case which is completely watertight. Getting a YES vote next time is not like a football match, when you have to be ahead when the ref blows his whistle, even if it is with a jammy goal.

      We need to have the majority of the country yonboard and we need to have a very clear blueprint, because we really will be standing on our own two feet (thank the Lord). I think the YES movement needs to start addressing the main concerns — which I personally think NO voters are quite right to have!

      Currency – Scotland must have its own independent currency. Whether we want to peg it to the rUK £ or even have an informal agreement to accept BofE £ notes is another thing (I don’t see why not), but an independent Scotland must have its own independent currency. How can we be independent and let a foreign central bank set our interest rates??

      [I hope that in a few years’ time, digital currencies and the blockchain will have taken off a bit more. A move by some countries towards a commodities-based system (you can bet Russia and the Saudis would love this) would be an absolute bonus for us, can you imagine if quantity of oil reserves were to be a factor here…!]

      Interest rates were also a problem during indyref1, many voted NO because they had mortgages. This needs to be addressed.

      Pensions — need to seek a legal ruling from Parliament, get Alex Salmond to ask the Work and Pensions secretary in Parliament, explicitly, to state that all UK pensions will be honoured 100%. I also think the SNP should bring in a policy that a certain percentage of proceeds from oil exports will go towards a fund which will pay to keep the Scottish pension always 10% above the rUK pension (not hard when it is so miserable in the first place).

      NHS — Similar ruling from Parliament, Philippa Whitford is the one to get it, that the NHS is already independent in Scotland and so will remain the same as before, in public hands in an indy Scotland, but with reciprocal agreements with rUK NHS boards, as is the case with Eire.

      Oil — Just a bonus. Clean energy is where we need to go anyway. Remember! SCOTLAND WITH ONLY 1% OF EUROPE’S POPULATION HAS:
      25% of the tidal energy
      25% of the wind power
      10% of the wave energy
      That is before we mention over 60% of EU oil production (largest oil reserve in the EU) and 33% of EU total hydrocarbon production.

      So very important: we need to get legal rulings on the likes of pensions and the NHS so that flyweight politicos like Broon, Darling and Lamont can no longer lie and get away with it.

    430. Lenny Hartley says:

      Thepnr

      Best to let them pay existing pensions as they do for pensioners living in Spain etc.
      you would need a huge crystal ball to try and figure out how long everybody was going to live and as standard of living in Indy Scotland would be far better, life expectancy would increase.

      You could do a calculation on what the worth of pension contributions was for those not
      Yet reached retirement age and barter that or even put it into a pension fund.

    431. Tam Jardine says:

      Proud Cybernat

      There is a breakdown explanation of the £7 billion figure- it does indeed include all council spending, it excludes reserved matters like defence and foreign affairs.

      Industry, energy, trade, tourism, transport, housing, environment, law and order, housing, education, arts, health and PSS?, Other PS? within the block grant and Agriculture, fisheries, food, industry and EFL’s? from outwith the block grant classed as ‘non-block’.

      Total for SoS 1985/86: £7008M. The figure I lifted from the Scottish Government website for oil and gas tax revenue was £25000M for that year but there was a note about that amount being adjusted so maybe I am not comparing the correct 2 figures. The UK site I am looking at right now states £12173M for that same tax year.

      The year in question was the third highest year for oil revenues and the tax fluctuates significantly. Of course this revenue excludes the small matter of any other tax revenue for Scotland that year!!

      I think it is beyond doubt, from what I have gleaned that Scotland was injecting enormous amounts of money into the UK exchequer at that time and an independent Scotland with the same costs (£7billion plus cost of government, defence and foreign affairs) would have had a ludicrous budget surplus.

      At the same time we were in the midst of a decade long invisible budget cut and all the tories except Malcolm Rifkind want the pampered Scots to take a one off readjustment to our budget to account for the reduction in population since 1979.

      At the same time our industry is being destroyed, utilities privatised and everything is for sale.

      The stuff Rifkind mentions in the letter I posted earlier- so many of the problems were the same as we have now. The steel industry being destroyed, money being spent on massive infrastructure projects down south of no benefit to us and navy contracts being taken from the Clyde and awarded elsewhere.

    432. Reviresco says:

      The yoonies are screaming already. Tweeting “why isn’t queen nic up here in the Dee with her wellies?”

    433. Onwards says:

      @Kininvie

      “There are many entrenched No voters for whom no argument is sufficient to change their minds. Their loyalty is to the UK, full stop. It’s an emotional thing, just as much as an independent Scotland is mostly an emotional thing for us. We need to leave these people alone….time will work its own pressures on them. Insulting them will merely harden their stance.”

      This is one of the biggest obstacles.
      Many older folks especially still have a UK first loyalty – perhaps a nostalgia thing.. memories of the war etc.
      And before the internet, they had a lifetime of one-sided unionist media to brainwash them.

      The argument surely has to be that we don’t need to be ruled by London to keep any British identity that anyone has. In fact, independence can bring about far BETTER political relationships within Britain as we lose the grudge and grievance about who is subsidising who.

      The argument shouldn’t just be about a better Scotland, but a better Britain comprised of a confederation of normal nation states working together.

      The ‘BEST OF BOTH WORLDS’ should be our argument.

      We co-operate on the issues we have in common, yet Scotland also has its own seat at the UN, in Europe, participation in international events such as the Olympics etc.. a far highest international profile as a normal country.

    434. Petra says:

      @ Tam Jardine at 8:54pm re. Westminster been robbing Scotland blind for decades, if not Centuries now, and additionally penalising, punishing, us at every turn.

      Tam thanks very much indeed for taking the time to look at this information and post on here. It, the theft and skullduggery, probably doesn’t come as a surprise to many of us at all but great to have some proof: And of course there’s lots more to come.

      Wings has become such a source of valid information. A haven of truth and enlightenment amidst so much Unionist corruption and propaganda lies.

      Let’s hope that the job of scrutinising so much data is being carried out by SNP researchers at Holyrood and Westminster too.

    435. louis.b.argyll says:

      But it (a future currency) would not- following negotiation, be tied to a ‘foreign’ central bank..

      It would be a devolved committee within our own ‘former’ central bank..

      And anyway, the B of E, is independent of the Westminster cabinet, so there is no democratic contradiction.

    436. uno mas says:

      @Tam Jardine 8.45

      Burroughs, one of the sunrise industries which we are relying on to provide replacement jobs for those lost in traditional heavy industries, has recently announced major redundancies.

      Aye “sunrise industries” whatever happened to them?

    437. Onwards says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      30 December, 2015 at 11:22 pm
      Thepnr

      “Best to let them pay existing pensions as they do for pensioners living in Spain etc.”

      I think, as Thepnr mentioned earlier, it’s a good idea to subtract pensions and other obligations from our share of the debt, and reduce our annual debt payment cost.

      Then we don’t have to deal with any people doubting whether the UK government would pay out or not.
      Future payments can be estimated from life expectancy tables, such as the insurance industry uses.

      The debt is something that is a huge bargaining chip in negotiations. And there is a good argument we wouldn’t have built up that level of debt on our own.

      But first things first.
      We need an SNP majority in May 5, or any strategy for a second referendum is a moot point. It’s just over 4 months away now.

    438. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Loads of heavy stuff going on this evening, eh?

      Question – can YOU tell the difference between ‘mutual masturbation’ and ‘democracy in action’?

      *Eh? What?*

      Please take two minutes out to view a classic – Oliver Letwin (for it is he…) and oor very ain wee Danny Alexander ‘rapping’ about their Coalition – towards the end of it, Letwin actually utters the phrase ‘power to the people’.

      Soo-fucking-perb!

      🙂

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO4xZ4E4QyQ

    439. Gary45% says:

      Thatcher and the Tories will and always will be the CANCER of Scotland.
      When the miners strike happened,(I was still at school) I had close family who were involved in it, luckily for us my mum was still working, so we had an income coming in, along with other aunties, etc.
      If I remember correctly the Castle Hill colliery in Fife could easily have been pumped out after the strike, and would have been totally operational after about 2 weeks, (my step father said something along those lines back then).
      Thanks to the Fuc*ing Parasite that was Thatcher and her blind vision for a nation that was the end of Industrial Britain.
      Round about the early eighties, I realised then that Thatcher’s/Tories main goal in life was to wreck manufacturing and heavy industries in the UK, and make it a land of easy money commerce, like the “City” and the south east.
      They produce nothing but greed and self interest and have absolutely NO IDEA what the genuine citizens of the UK are about.

      The UK had its chance in May 2015 and SHAT it.

      That is one of the many reasons why I believe in an Independent Scotland, the Unionist parties are not worthy of licking the dirt from the shoes of SNP politicians..
      I was proud to dance the day the Parasite died and I will celebrate her demise till the day I die.
      So when any Tory (Blue,Red or Yellow) tell you how bad the SNP are doing, laugh in their faces and tell them to FUCK OFF. simples
      If you want to make Scotland an Industrial producer again, vote SNP x2 and start the wheels on the revolution turning.

    440. Effijy says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      30 December, 2015 at 10:37 pm

      <b?@ Kininvie</b?

      “I’m hearing all the same doubts and fears that I heard during indyref…currency, oil, economy, pensions.”

      World’s wealthiest countries by GDP (PPP):

      1. Qatar.
      2. Macau – N.O.
      3. Luxembourg – N.O.
      4. Singapore – N.O.
      5. Kuwait

      I recently returned from a trip to Singapore, who are now celebrating 50 years of Independence.

      I had a false impression that they would be a poor country with poor technologies and infrastructure.
      I could not have been more wrong!

      The country is covered in high speed broadband, no potholes anywhere, not one broken pavement slab in the entire city, every street tree lines with bushes and parks immaculately groomed.

      The people's party ensure that their buses are modern, clean, and run on time, with car numbers strictly limited
      to ensure air quality and free flowing traffic.

      There is great investment in new buildings that sees the city accommodating more active construction cranes than London or New York.

      The Multi-racial community integrate and work well with each other. The People's Party ensures that there are many free local activities for the citizens and tourists to interact with each other. A major investment is currently creating several leisure areas with Beaches and safe swim sections of the sea where families can enjoy their environment without cost other tan a cheap bus fare.

      There is a happy feel to the country, even though they have no oil what so ever.
      Should the Westminster government not advise them that they are too wee and to stupid, as dark skinned foreigners, to create such a fast growing healthy economy without the help of corrupt Etonian politicians and bankers?

      I'd be very happy to think that Scotland could be their equal in 25 years time.

      PS Some 25% of their limited land mass has been reclaimed from the sea.

      Thanks to their government, the People's Party, they don't suffer from the flooding that plagues this country due to the incompetence of the Red & Blue Tories!

    441. ArtyHetty says:

      re;legerwood@9.36pm

      So you think that YES voters might be turned to the darkside and vote no because their comrades have, allegedly, been horrid to the no voters.

      What a load of twaddle man!

    442. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Gary45 –

      🙂

      More power to ye mister!

    443. mike cassidy says:

      Singapore!

      Of course!

      The same party in power for half a century.

      A perfect model for an aspiring Scotland!

    444. Tam Jardine says:

      Lollysmum

      Finally got the to letter from George Younger and the Annex you were asking about. To summarise:

      George was switched from Secretary of State for Scotland to Defence almost immediately after the letter dated 6th of January was received by the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher.

      I can see why he was moved on. Its funny, what I have read makes me despise the man but he is a guy at the end of his tether.

      Here is a guy who has been complicit in absolutely shafting Scotland for his entire period of office, implementing invisible cuts the people of Scotland will never know about for 30 years. The accumulated cuts year on year have been destroying growth in Scotland throughout the eighties leaving us sitting at a growth rate of half the rest of the UK. He explicitly concedes this as being the direct result of his actions.

      He has cut as far as he could without being detected. He even secretly (get this) refused an estimated £100 million pounds worth of Barnet consequentials ever year from 85/86 to 88/89 which should have come to Scotland due to overspending by English council authorities.

      He did everything he could (again, during peak oil and gas tax revenues) to reduce the Scottish block grant to serve his masters in the treasury and the Prime Minister. And then letters start floating about demanding the Scottish over-provision is examined in a Needs Assessment designed specifically to provide evidence of overspending in Scotland.

      Will sit down and put some of George’s letter down… its long and there are tables that would be better if someone knows how to link to specific pages of a PDF. It is pages 155-165 of this document PREM-19-1922_1.pdf accessed via http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C15189606

      It is mind blowing stuff.

    445. Lenny Hartley says:

      Onwards

      There is a difference between Pensions and other assets , Pensions are a deal done between an individual and the government in this case the U.K. The pound is an asset as they would not let us have our share we have no obligation to pay off the U.K. Debt as we did not contribute to it.

      What’s happens with the tens of thousands English born pensioners pensions, say the Scots government does make an agreement with the U.K. Govt on pensions and a sizeable porportion of English pensioners move back to England as they don’t like a left leaning Scots Government – who pays their pension now?

    446. Thepnr says:

      FUCKING EXTRODINARY!

      It starts with Letwin stating:

      “We took the unusual step of asking people what they actually thought about it”

      Then finishes with Letwin stating:

      “That’s right we can give some real power to the people and make things open”

      Hahaha Fucking ha “”ask the people” “real power” make things open”

      You can FUCK OFF

    447. ArtyHetty says:

      Re;Onwards@11.24pm

      Not sure where you get the idea that ‘Scotland being independent is mostly an emotional thing for us’. Might be for you, but for most of us it’s about rejecting a negative, corrupt, thieving regime in London, and making our own decisions on a practical basis. This is perfectly rational and is about survival, which yes is subjective, but not based on the emotional at all.

      The rest of your post about making this about rBritannia, well it’s a two way street that. Scotland is silenced, blanked, ridiculed and treated with utter contempt mostly, by rBritannia, so your sharing, caring, all in this together stuff, just doesn’t wash.

    448. Thepnr says:

      Talking of the Ian Brotherhood link in case your wondering.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO4xZ4E4QyQ

    449. ArtyHetty says:

      Tam, thats incredible and what an eye opener.
      Thanks for all your time on this.

    450. Macart says:

      @Tam Jardine

      Great posts Tam.

    451. Thepnr says:

      Don’t forget to take that tit Danny Alexander with you.

    452. Petra says:

      @ Effijy at 11:53pm

      Effijy I’ve been to Singapore too and like you thought I would find a most run-down country indeed. Thanks for outlining so well a true picture of the place. Another thing that sticks in my mind is the lack of litter and bubble gum on pavements as there are heavy fines for littering / despoiling the environment. The place is spotless and absolutely thriving.

      Roll on Scottish Independence Day.

    453. kininvie says:

      @artyhetty: The phrase about Scottish independence being a mostly emotional thing for us was mine, so it’s me you need to direct your argument at. I accept your point, but I’d say that our drive for an independent Scotland is fuelled as much by a sense of our own history and culture as by practicalities. The two go hand in hand.

      @tam jardine It has long been my impression that both George Younger and Ian Lang fought a desperate rearguard action (within the limitations of the Scottish Office brief) against Thatcher’s attacks on Scotland – maybe because they half sensed what they would lead to (ie where we are now). Do you think that was the case – or do you conclude otherwise?

    454. Tam Jardine says:

      Letter from George Younger, Sec of State for Scotland to the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher dated 6th January 1986. Heseltine resigned apparently at the cabinet meeting on the 9th January 2 days after the letter would have been received by Thatcher.

      So George was conveniently moved on to Defence after having written this letter. He has been Secretary of State for Scotland for almost 6.5 years, since Thatcher and the tories were elected in ’79.

      “SCOTTISH BLOCK

      We are due to meet on 9 January to discuss the proposal for a fresh assessment of the need for public expenditure in each part of the United Kingdom following the consideration by Cabinet on 7 November of the 1985 Public Expenditure Survey. The Chief Secretary circulated a note of alleged over-provision in the Scottish block.

      The Scottish block has been the subject of sustained attack by the Treasury for the past six years on the grounds of alleged overprovision. The Treasury case was originally founded upon the results of an interdepartmental study, prepared in the context of devolution in 1977-78 and published in 1979, of the relative public expenditure needs in the constituent parts of the United Kingdom.

      In spite of the substantial resources allocated to the work the published report acknowledged that the study was deficient in a number of important respects. It certainly could never have supported overt cuts on the basis that Scotland was doing too well.

      About a year ago you, the Lord President, the then Chief Secretary and the territorial Secretaries of State looked very carefully at the case for embarking on a new study. We decided not to proceed: you doubted whether such a study would achieve much and you accepted that it presented real political dangers for the Government.

      Nevertheless in order to further our policy of reducing public expenditure, I agreed that officials from the Treasury and the Scottish Office should conduct a detailed study of the extent to which further invisible cuts might be made from my programmes. This was completed by the summer but when the results proved to be not to their liking, the Treasury revived the idea of a Needs Assessment Study.

      This proposal, set in the context of a highly prejudicial presentation of my position, appeared in C(85)26, circulated immediately prior to the Cabinet meeting on 7 November.

      The paper which the Chief Secretary circulated on 20 December is similar in tone. It seems to suggest that public expenditure provision in different parts of the UK should be in inverse proportion to various indices of prosperity. I know of no such relationship: it certainly does not apply to public transport in the south east of England. If Glasgow does have the highest urban motorway mileage in Europe then this is a mere quirk of definition.

      The structure of the Scottish Office and the number of NDPBs in Scotland are irrelevant to a demonstration of need or lack of need for public services in Scotland. Again I do not understand the reference to an “uncovenanted bonus” for local authority current expenditure unless it is intended to suggest that any increase in my block, even if attributable to the workings of the formula, must by definition be wrong. In general I hope the issue can be considered without such prejudicial overtones.
      (to be continued)

    455. call me dave says:

      A wee Herald cameo on Tom Harris ex MP. Spending more time with his family, rating Kezia’s prospects as zero.

      https://archive.is/avBrS

      Meanwhile Nicola looks forward.
      https://archive.is/0wccV

    456. Chic McGregor says:

      @Tam Jardine

      Some years ago I watched a HoL debate on the Barnett Formula, hot issue of the day being the Treasury designation of the proposed London Crossrail being exempt due to it allegedly being of national benefit.

      The then SOSfS, Seamus Murphy, indicated he was happy with the present system – that it was up to the Treasury, but MF spoke out strongly against that and against crossrail being exempt from Barnett.

      I sometimes wondered if he was a closet nat. However, he has made it clear on several occasions that he is a unionist.

      I have therefore concluded that he is a unionist but rather unusually, one who is actually prepared to defend Scotland’s corner.

    457. cearc says:

      I think a wee PDF booklet of Tam’s trawling with precis of the key points would be handy to print out and pass about.

    458. Tam Jardine says:

      SCOTTISH BLOCK (continued)

      “Under most programme heads, expenditure per head of population in Scotland is greater than England. This is no new phenomenon; it existed prior to the introduction of the block and formula arrangements.

      It is no surprise therefore that the Needs Assessment Study concluded that Scotland’s needs were greater than England’s; but there was no agreement on how these needs could be assessed objectively nor on how they ought properly to be reflected in the relative sizes of expenditure programmes.

      In my judgement the “Scotland” programme does not represent expenditure in excess of need. The selection of statistics circulated by the Chief Secretary does not constitute a basis for action. The fact that for example, there is one policeman to every 390 people in Scotland compared to only 1 for every 409 in England proves nothing – certainly not that Scotland has too many policemen.

      Similarly it would be indefensible to close hospitals in Scotland and make nurses redundant simply on the grounds that – there is greater NHS provision in Scotland than in England while taking no account of the relative levels of alternative provision and the special costs of medical education.

      To make overt cuts in the Scottish programmes on no better basis than an assertion that Scotland is receiving too big a share of public expenditure, would unite all Scottish opinion – including that of our own supporters – against the Government.

      Far from handing on “uncovenanted bonuses” to local authorities, etc, I have in fact taken very substantial and successful measures to keep a tight rein on public spending in Scotland.”

      (at this point GY details cuts to local authority expenditure, preventing overspends: at this point he mentions “enormous overspends in England, and points to lower increases in NHS spending but I won’t reproduce it all)

      “In addition to the consequences to my programmes which, by the working of the formula, flow from the changes agreed to comparable English programmes, I have also made substantial invisible and visible reductions to my block.

      The overall effect of these concessions on the baselines in my prgrammes, when due allowance is made for the consequences of capital overspending by English local authorities and the effects of “invisible” savings made in earlier years, is to produce the following reductions:

      86-87 -£228.6M
      87-88 -£265.2M
      88-89 -£225.7M

      The details are in the Annex. They include a number of concessions leading to visible cuts where I have agreed to make changes quite outwith the normal rules on the application of the formula or even the normal rules for aligning funding responsibilities with Ministerial responsibilities.

      The position following the 1985 survey (based on the figures in the Autumn Statement) is as follows:-

      a. over the next 3 years total Government expenditure for the UK as a whole is planned to increase by 10.8% whilst, over the same period, expenditure on my programme is planned to increase by 0.3%. The Times has already published a table (copy attached) which highlights the difference in treatment between the “Scotland” programme and the rest of Government;

      b. if we confine our attention simply to figures I have announced for the Scottish block (and our political opponents exercise no such restraint) expenditure is planned to increase over the next 3 years by 7.9% compared to the 10.8% for all Government expenditure as noted above.

      c. Scotland of course shares in some of the other programmes which are growing faster but there is a growing gap between planned changes in the Scottish block and changes in cmparable English programmes because of all the visible reductions I made during the 1985 survey and the consequential effects of the “invisible” cuts which i have accepted in this and previous surveys.

      d. over the next 3 years public expenditure on the Northern Ireland programme is set to increase by 12.1% on the Welsh programmes by 7.1% and on the Scottish programmes by 0.3%.

      On the basis of the outturn data for 1985-86 in the Autumn Statement, for every £1000 of public expenditure in the UK, £55.10 will be spent on my programmes. By 1988-89, under present planning, for every £1000 of public expenditure in the UK, £49.9 will be spent on my programmes. In other words the Scotland programmes percentage share of the UK cake will have fallen by 10% over this period. By any reckoning that is a very substantial change, much greater than could possibly be justified on grounds of changes in need; it is virtually 10 times larger than the relative population change since the 1970s cited in the Chief Secretary’s paper.

      (continued)

    459. kininvie says:

      @ Chic McGregor

      The Scottish Office, (as was) was in some ways the last bastion of the ‘one nation’ ‘wet’ Tories – and I have respect for those who recognised what Thatcher’s anti-Scotland policies might lead to, and who did their best to undermine them. They were inevitably purged and replaced by the arch-Thatcherite Michael Forsyth….

      It is, in some respects, to our advantage that once again we have a Tory government which simply doesn’t understand Scotland. Circumstances have changed, and Fluffy has neither the influence or intellect to defend Scotland against Cameron (and gives no appearance of wishing to do so).

      We can defend ourselves now….

    460. K1 says:

      Jeezuz wept Tam, they were really out to destroy Scotland, 0.3% increase over 3 years for Scotland, compared wi 12.1% and 7.9% increase for NI and Wales respectively over the same period.

      A 10% reduction in less than 4 years…to our Block grant. This is dynamite, set against the back drop of the oil revenues: an abundance pouring into the exchequer, they are for hammering us relentlessly.

      This is purely ideological, in its motive, I can’t see any other reason for this attack, for surely that is what this reveals, a complete assault on the Scottish electorate. Why?

    461. Tam Jardine says:

      SCOTTISH BLOCK (part 3)

      (Continued)

      In the light of these facts, I can see no justification for launching a new Needs Assessment Study because of alleged overprovision for Scotland. If, however, colleagues are minded to have a study they should be aware of what would be involved.

      The existence of the study will have to be disclosed from the outset and its results published like those of its predecessor. Any attempt to conceal the study would be doubly damaging if the concealment did not succeed (and that seems a very real risk given the number of Departments which will have to be involved).

      My responsibilities parallel those of at least nine departments and with the contributions required from the central departments as well, the resource committments will be substantial and costly. The study will have to be comprehensive and the methodology soundly based so that the results can be publicly defensible; it will inevitably take a considerable time to complete.

      To achieve greater credibility than the earlier exercise, the study cannot simply be based on statistical indicators alone but must take into account of the social, historical and institutional differences amongst the countries involved.

      No matter how we seek to present it, the study will be universally recognised as a cost-cutting exercise since why else would any Government embark upon it?

      We will therefore be pressed from the outset about our intentions on implementing its findings. If they show that some or all of the territorial departments are under-funded the Government will be expected to make good the shortfall with all the embarrassments that will cause; if they show that the territorial departments are over-provided the Government will be pressed to say whether or not it intends to face the political and practical consequences of redistributing provision away from these departments.

      I conclude therefore that if colleagues insist upon a further Needs Assessment Study it will be a stick for all our backs. The political damage could far outweigh any benefits which might accrue from departing from the existing process for determining Scotland’s share of public expenditure.”

      To follow (the morn) George Younger’s Annex where the cuts, visible and invisible are spelled out, where the hundreds of millions of Barnet consequentials refused fit into the total secret programme of spending cuts and what the abysmal effect on Scottish growth was.

      G’night all

    462. K1 says:

      “No matter how we seek to present it, the study will be universally recognised as a cost-cutting exercise since why else would any Government embark upon it?”

      For racist anti Scottish motives. Give me one other reason?

    463. Tam Jardine says:

      K1

      I have been turning this over in my mind- George Younger was destroying the economic growth of Scotland by cutting for the entire decade during this period when Scotland was propping up the rest of the UK. Its is pretty painful reading- I feel a wee bit ashamed thinking about it.

      How can you secretly kneecap the economy of your own country?

      Anyway- enough. Will get a better handle on it in the morning.

    464. Thepnr says:

      @Tam Jardine

      Thanks for bringing us all that information, it truly is revealing. Been played before here on Wings before the referendum, not enough people seen it not knew it’s meaning but it basically backs up everything you have told us tonight.

      Spitting Image got it right and knew the score 30 years ago.

      Scotland the Testing Ground – Nov 27, 1987

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nljGymA7siw

    465. Thepnr says:

      @Tam Jardine

      These amazing posts that you have posted tonight are not that amazing when you open your mind to the fact we have forever been a poor relation of England, (though I applaud you for doing so) they are just more evidence of something I have long suspected.

      Scotland under Westminster rule has been shafted in every which way for decades even centuries. Nothing will ever change until WE take our country back under our own political control.

      This is proven by a wee clip from Spitting Image I played here on Wings Over Scotland Off Topic before the Referendum.

      Not enough saw it nor believed it. Next time, next time!

      Scotland the Testing Ground – Nov 27, 1987

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nljGymA7siw

    466. Thepnr says:

      Shit! How did that happen?

      I thought my first post didn’t appear because of the Youtube link I typed again but had forgotten exactly what I wrote the first time. Anyway worth watching or reading twice LOL

    467. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tam
      Great work. Having downloaded the 2 pdfs, I had a scan through the second one for interest. Inner tier being automatic support, outer tier not so much. A snippet:

      Robert Young to Mr Turnbull 25 Oct 1984 page 42 of 70 of the 2nd pdf:

      For your information, I should point out that some of the new adjustments are much less than objective, the Scottish ones particularly so. Girvan, Newton Stewart and Alloa ought to be in the inner tier on any objective criteria – they are among the neediest areas as defined for purposes of the Regional Policy review. Conversely, Dundee falls well outside the inner tier. Nevertheless, the decisions reached are more or less those which Mr Younger wanted. Dundee, I understand, was given to him as a tranquiliser when he was denied assisted status for the whole of the HIDB area.

    468. yesindyref2 says:

      That above snippet from Tam’s link:
      http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C15189606

      “Add to basket” – it’s free.
      “Continue to basket”
      “Checkout”

      In spite of what it says you’ll have to register but all it wants is an email address, I didn’t need the email as once I’d bought or whatever (I’m not on that page), it gave me a download link for the 2 pdfs.

      OCR would be useful, any I’ve got probably wouldn’t handle it, so I just typed that snippet by hand into a .txt file alongside the pdf in half screen.

      – – – – – – –

      I’ll try to help a bit, but after a lazy Christmas I’ve a fair amount of work to do!

    469. yesindyref2 says:

      Feckin parcel of rogues, the whole lot of them. I ran through the 2nd pdf because it was a quarter the download so presumably smaller, one other thing I saw was that the South-West was being screwed. No wonder there was some sort of Independence for Cornwall movement.

      Thing is this is the way they worked, and I doubt it’s change much. So as well as Mundell screwing Scotland over poor old Scotland Bill, there’s little doubt he’s being screwed over as well. He wouldn’t notice the difference.

    470. yesindyref2 says:

      And one last thing before I try to get a couple of hours sleep I’m wide awake now (cup of tea and mince pie):

      Fuck ’em.

    471. jdman says:

      Skip NC
      “callmedave, that is a fascinating link. I may be missing something from 3,000 miles away, but is Ian Davidson the sane voice of the Labour Party in Scotland?”

      Nope,
      He’s as mad as a bag of rats!
      isn’t it amazing that when you have no dog in the race how reasonable one can become,eg:Michael Portillo,

      Ian Davidson is Labours Michael Portillo
      stick tae yer colouring in books Ian.
      ___________________________________________________
      re above
      Peter Piper/yesinderef2 might want to extend the hand of friendship to the likes of Ian Davidson but he doesn’t speak for me,

      may he rot in hell, I’ll reserve my magnanimity for the poor deluded fools who believed those SCUM!
      happy new colouring in book Ian.
      ________________________________________________________
      Scott

      Margaret Thatcher archives: Scots were ‘pampered’ and a ‘juicy’ target for cuts

      Why no mention of this on BBC Scotland lunch time news??”

      The BBC would turn that into proof positive that we are indeed subsidised, that one’s best left on the shelf when you consider Ian’s post
      “I’m way past the point of trying to ‘persuade’ any BTUKOK types that they are wrong. If they still can’t see that they were duped in Sep 2014 then no amount of factual evidence is going to sway them. They’re selfish, stupid and arrogant in equal measure, and there’s no way I’m wasting a minute on any of them.”

      He does have a point, there are people out there who really are JUST THAT STUPID!
      _________________________________________________________
      Footsoldier
      “Thought I was an expert, yet only 37.5%.”

      Which really proves that we, with our almost relentless attention to the actions of those people, can only get 37% (Aa goat 50%masel like) just how little your average punter actually knows, Scary huh?
      ______________________________________________________
      Kenny says
      “If Westminster believed that there was a case for turning the tide, converting YES voters to NO, you can believe we would be showered in fake gifts, a big PR campaign and maybe even a few REAL crumbs from the table.

      But there is NONE of that. It now looks as if Westminster is planning to try and devastate our clean-energy industry before it even takes off (we have all the natural resources to be the European leader by a mile).”

      And I’ll tell you when that “asset stripping” started shall I?

      It started with John Majors bizarre decision to take the nuclear submarine refit contract from Rosyth and hand it to Devonport in spite of the howls of protest from the MOD the Scottish office, and for Devonport to fulfil the mandate he had to spend 100million pounds of taxpayers money to provide a drydock which Rosyth already possessed,

      All the no vote achieved was to give those bastards an extension to allow them to destroy this country before we finally wake up and kick them the fuck out for good,

      I know it’s not popular with many people here to criticise no voters but,
      GAUN YERSEL no voters you have helped our enemies to destroy our country, well done.
      __________________________________________________
      uno mas
      “Aye “sunrise industries” whatever happened to them?”

      Well…
      http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/hyundai-freescale-semiconductor-plant-dunfermline-march-2010.t48551
      ____________________________________________________
      Fred
      “Same auld, same auld, that frightful auld waxwork Jackie Bird is being wheeled out yet again for your Hogmanay delight!”

      Same auld, same auld, that frightful auld waxwork Jackie stringy auld Bird is being wheeled out yet again for your Hogmanay delight!

      Fixed that for you. 🙂
      ______________________________________________________
      K1
      “This is purely ideological, in its motive, I can’t see any other reason for this attack, for surely that is what this reveals, a complete assault on the Scottish electorate. Why?”

      Heres why

      A turtle was happily swimming along a river when a scorpion hailed it from the shore.

      A scorpion, being a very poor swimmer, asked a turtle to carry him on his back across a river. “Are you mad?” exclaimed the turtle. “You’ll sting me while I’m swimming and I’ll drown.”

      “My dear turtle,” laughed the scorpion, “if I were to sting you, you would drown and I would go down with you, and drown as well. Now where is the logic in that?”

      The turtle thought this over, and saw the logic of the scorpion’s statement. “You’re right!” cried the turtle. “Hop on!” The scorpion climbed aboard and halfway across the river the scorpion gave the turtle a mighty sting. As they both sank to the bottom, the turtle resignedly said:

      “Do you mind if I ask you something? You said there’d be no logic in your stinging me. Why did you do it?”

      “It has nothing to do with logic,” the drowning scorpion sadly replied. “It’s just my character.”
      _____________________________________________________
      A happy new year tae ane and aj

    472. jdman says:

      j? where’d that come from?

    473. Ken500 says:

      Scotland pays it’s own (UK) Pensions. £16Billion for (UK) Pensions/Benefits. Scotland raises £54Billion. It gets back £30Billion block Grant, £16Billion (UK) Pensions/Benefits. This is from taxes raised in Scotland, Pays £4Billion Defence – Trident/illegal wars. £4Billion of debt repayments for money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. £54Billion. It then gets a % ratio of the money borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK added to it’s accounts. The ‘so called’ deficit.

      Scotland pays it’s own (UK) Pensions – £6Billion (Less pro rata, because people die younger) Rest of UK Pensions is £72Billion.

      Why is anyone surprised by the latest revelations? Thatcher had the cheek to come to Scotland and say,’We the English are generous to you Scots’, at the General Assembly. She was taking the equivalent of £25-30Billion in Oil revenues a year, and secretly and illegally south and spending it in London S/E. Scotland never saw any of it.

      Unemployment was higher in Scotland than in the rest of the UK because of Westminster policies. 4% in London S/E, 7% in the NE of England, 10% in Scotland. The highest in the UK because of Westminster centralist economic policies. ‘Unemployment in the North was a price worth paying for jobs and prosperity in the South’. Depopulated. Yet the claims were that Scotland was subsidised. Still is?

      This led to industrial decline in Scotland in the 1980’s until the year 2000 and Devolution.The Tories are still at it. Scotland gets policies for which it didn’t vote. The SNP can do their best to protect Scotland from Cameron. The Labour/Unionists are just as bad. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Destabilising the world economy. Trillions were wasted. Blair and Brown should be in jail.

      Younger, Lang, Forsyth were her henchmen. They are still at it. One Scottish Minister resigned.
      200,000 voters were taken in again by the lying Tory/Unionists at the Referendum. Some people never learn, especially those who lived under Thatcher.

      Scotland would have £10Billion that could be better spent, if Scotland was Independent. No Trident/illegal wars, a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink to lower consumption, a land tax, lower Oil sector taxation to make it viable. No debt repayments on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland.

      Cameron is cutting the NHS and increasing the debt. Cameron was elected to protect the NHS and cut the debt. Cameron is attacking the vulnerable and rewarding the wealthy who caused the increased debt by major tax evasion. HMRC is not fit for purpose.

    474. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tam
      Sorry to cut in, I made the mistake of starting to glance over the 1st pdf and this snippet caught my ee:

      Page 22 From Unwin to Wicks at no 10:

      6. … There may well, for example, be circumstances in which it might be neccessary to ask the Scottish Secretary either to forego provision (eg to deny himself the Scottish consequentials of decisions affecting England and Wales) or to be willing, as in other cases over the past year, to contribute from the Scottish Block to other items of expenditure.

      (my bold) – so it was already being done, taking money from the Scottish Block – presumably to pay for England and Wales expenditure. So much for Barnett – it was dishonoured. In other words, STOLEN from Scotland in 1986 – what about other years?

    475. yesindyref2 says:

      @jdman
      No I don’t speak for you, I don’t go “baaaaaaa” in the night either, I speak for myself. And I said nothing about “friendship” in that posting, but about using him for the benefit of Scotland.

    476. Ken500 says:

      Will any of this be reported in the MSM? NO. Cameron and the rest of the liars will see to that. The tax evading Non Dom Press.The same way as the £200Billion+ Oil Fund went south.

    477. yesindyref2 says:

      pdf1 page 27: “Secret” – to Wicks (PPS no 10). Note from Scottish Office and Treasury officials – 22 July 1986

      “6. …………..would be likely to intensify public and expert scrutiny of the non-formula reductions which have already been made since 1980. The effect of these secret reductions has been to reduce the Scottish block baseline by about £70m in each of the next 3 years ie by percentage amounts greater than the precentage fall in Scotland’s population, alhtough less than the change in relative population would indicate. If, as seems not unlikely, this comes to light it would be extremely difficult to explain not only why the earlier changes had not been announced but also why Scotland was being penalised for its fall in population twice over. We have been unable to identify convincing arguments which could be used publicly to justify the earlier cuts.

      ——————-

      So the Tories robbed Scotland blind from 1980 to at least 1986.

      It also occurs to me – has this reduced Scottish block baseline ever been corrected back since 1986, or does the current Scottish Block have an accumulation of underpayments in it, year to year, including the current one?

    478. galamcennalath says:

      The value of these 30 year old revelations is in helping to dispel the believe among many Scots that UK is really OK.

      It never has been! Isn’t! And, certainly never will be!

      These documents aren’t a matter of party political opinion. They are black and white evidence of facts.

      Getting the message out that we get ripped off will convert some more NOs.

      A percent here, and a percent there – mony a meikle maks muckle.

    479. McBoxheid says:

      When I did this yesterday, I got just above 58%. Piss poor I thought, but I never looked anything up and took just over 4 mins. I looked at the leader board and there was one entry. Someone got 100%. Looking at comments below the line this morning, I don’t feel so bad anymore.

      If 58+% can retain the same amount of info given by the Rev Stu and his alert readers, then there is hope for indyref2.

      Guten Rutsch into 2016.

    480. Tam Jardine says:

      yesindyref2

      In the George Younger letter (page 155 of the PDF… or I copied in 3 seperate posts titled SCOTTISH BLOCK) he details the invisible savings made since 1979 when the tories and Younger got in.

      His zeal to make savings in order to satisfy his masters seemed to be incredible- including refusing Barnet consequentials for the 3 years 86/87 – 88/89 entitled “Consequentials of capital overspending by English local authorities (Estimated).

      George Younger counted this as a loss to the Scottish block grant of £100 million each year.

      I wonder if a FOI enquiry could tell us the years in which Scottish Office ministers refused Barnet consequentials and the amounts? That the practice took place is now a matter of the public record although it is only an estimated figure and George Younger would move to defence before the period described.

      I will post the Annex to George Younger’s letter with some figures in a while.

    481. jdman says:

      yesindyref2
      As far as I’m concerned Ian Davidson has performed the highest service he can for Scotland by losing his seat, and I don’t go baaa in the middle of the night either.
      A happy new year.

    482. X_Sticks says:

      Independence Live Xmas Crowdfunder

      £420 short of the goal and 46 hours to go.

      I make no excuse for continually pushing the IndyLive crowdfunder. They have been are *will* be a influential and necessary resource if we want to achieve independence.

      They deserve all the support we can give them. I support them on a monthly basis so they have some ongoing funding, please contribute if you possibly can. Thanks.

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/independence-live-xmas-crowdfunder#/

    483. Calum McKay says:

      Good new year to one all, let’s make it a good one for Scotland and a bad one for unionism!

      My hope for 2016 is the press and state broadcaster treat Scotland’s Government with fairness and respect. By all means probe and disclose short comings, but do it with an even hand and stop the invention of bad news stories designed not only to undermine the Goverment, but to sap the confidence of the Scottish people.

    484. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lenny Hartley says: 31 December, 2015 at 12:14 am:

      ” … What’s happens with the tens of thousands English born pensioners pensions, say the Scots government does make an agreement with the U.K. Govt on pensions and a sizeable porportion of English pensioners move back to England as they don’t like a left leaning Scots Government – who pays their pension now?”

      All pensions are legal contracts between the pensioner and the pension provider. It doesn’t matter whether the provider is a government, a company or an individual, they have a duty to provide the pensioner with the agreed pension – with this proviso – That the pension fund still exists.

      The provider can, like any other business, be taken over, sold or go bust.

      However, the contract signed up to by the pensioner is legally with pension funder. I would speculate that pensioners who had paid into the UK pension fund would go on being paid by the UK government.

      In the case of those still not fully paid up the pension would be paid on a percentage basis by the UK Government and only the ongoing percentage made up by the Scottish Government.

      New pensioners would be paid by whatever country’s government they remained in as citizens. Obviously, as time passed the pension payments from The UK Government would reduce.

      It is like how people can have a works pension continued to be paid after they change their employer who has a different pension setup.

      My parents emigrated to Australia in 1962. They each received both their UK state pension and their works pensions, (in both cases from several different employers pension schemes), until their deaths in Australia.

    485. Sinky says:

      Excellent work by those examining the 30 year old secret government papers and when finished the main findings should be collated into a concise article on Wings.

      In the meantime it is worth re reading Scotland’s century of lost wealth on Business for Scotland web site.

      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/scotlands-century-of-lost-wealth/

    486. Capella says:

      @ Tam Jardine and Thepnr and Indyref2 – excellent links. I’ve downloaded copies of the archive. Nice New Year reading!

      It’s not that we don’t know they are bastards, it’s seeing their brazen mendacity in black and white. This needs to go viral. Is there really NO journalist out there who considers this important enough to report?

    487. Lenny Hartley says:

      Effigy/Petra re Singapore , having travelled several times to Singapore from 82 to 2001 , I have seen major changes with the population doubling in that time. Lee Kuan Yew was a beneficial dictator but it was a bit Orwellian for me. He took the soul of Singapore , I came to dislike it so much that the last time I was there for several weeks , I would fly up to Kuala Lumper for the weekend to get away from the place. the Malaysians didn’t like the Singaporeans as they thought them arrogant, something I never noticed, but I certainly would not hold up Singapore as a society we should aspire.

      Also it’s a bit overcrowded larger population than Scotland (5.5 million) with an island about the same size as Arran ( population 5.5 thousand) I know where I would rather live.

    488. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tam
      It really paints a different picture of George Younger. In those days of course the SNP were splitting, infighting, down to 2 MPs, with the Devo Ref aftermath, and Labour were doing the same. For the Tories it was open season on Scotland, and the rest of the UK bar the South-east, with nobody to be bothered checking it out or keeping tabs.

      I found a letter in the 1st PDF about the “myth” of the North-South Divide where Norman Blackwell asked (about Manchester) “Why not also locate the UK end of EEC Comission activities there, and use the city as an alternative to London for international government meetings?”

      The note scrawled in the margin (Thatcher?) just said “Because the Comiision activities don’t want to go to Manchester”. Says it all. Elsewhere unemployment statistics showing much of the UK having much more, nearly double, that of London and East Anglia, dismissed because London and East Anglia had one-quarter of the population.

      The file you found is dynamite.

    489. Golfnut says:

      @Tam Jardine and others.

      Great sleuthing and potentially a big can of worms being opened up.

      That HMG manipulates Scotland’s finances down,sideways,round corners and under the carpets to remove revenue and generally create a stick to beat us separatists, comes as no surprise.

      Those Gers figures just get dodgier by the minute.

    490. Hugh Barclay says:

      Well what a year, highlight has to be the 56, seeing all those Unionists being quite rightly booted out on their arse was joyous and will never be forgotten.
      That was Unionist wipe-out part 1.

      Part 2 of course comes at the Holyrood elections next year, has to be SNP 1+2, do not take a chance on letting a Unionist in, 1+2

      Part 3 will see the final Unionist clear-out coming in local council elections 2017.

      This is the wee 5 min vid I made for GE15, I’ll bang it up on here for the last time as its the end of the year, enjoy.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UckAXbyxqc

      Happy new year to all when it comes.

    491. yesindyref2 says:

      @jdman
      Remember all the stuff about not building the Type 26 on the Clyde in iScotland? One of the reasons used was that if the rUK wanted to build them in Scotland they’d have to tender them to all EU countries because of TFEU 346.

      It was Davidson in an SAC grilled Murrison, defence minister, until finally he admitted that TFEU 346 meant no such thing, and that the rUK could easily build the T26 in iScotland by choice without tendering.

      He’d also earlier had constitutional witnesses discussing the legalities of Scotland “leaving” the UK, and established the three options, secession, separation and dissolution, which Crawford & Boyle were later forced to discuss in their first UK white paper Annex where they came to the surprising conclusion that Scotland have been absorbed into an enlarged England as the Treaty of Union was meaningless and S******* had been extinguished.

      There was a lot of good stuff came out in the witness examinations in SAC, for some odd reason none of it made its way into the media, except below the line in forums.

      Yes, Happy New Year! Bed for me, finally I’m calming down from those National Archive letters.

    492. Hugh Barclay says:

      Sorry Stu, I deleted the HTTP bit at the start of that URL and it’s somehow back, I know you hate that, sorry Dude, feel free to delete :-0

    493. Ken500 says:

      Singapore is a tax haven. Rivals London as a tax haven. Multinationals tax evade through the City of London, damaging British business and the UK economy. Thatcher set up tax havens.

    494. yesindyref2 says:

      @Capella
      I did just happen to mention it on a Herald article by John McLellan, ex Conservative something or other, and current director of some Scottish press association. Along with a choice snippet. “John McLellan: The Tories who fought Scotland’s corner”

      Postings still there – will they last the day? Will some investigative eager beaver reporter pick up the ball and run with it?

      What’s the winning numbers for tomorrow night’s lottery?



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top