We’ve had no answer from the BBC’s Andrew Neil to the question we asked him at the weekend. There has, however, been an interesting development in the debate over whether there have been severe real-terms cuts to the Scottish Government’s budget since the Conservatives came to power in 2010.
The extremely highly-respected economic analysts Jim and Margaret Cuthbert (the former of whom was Chief Statistician for the Scotland Office) have today written an article for Bella Caledonia seeking to establish the truth of the argument between Mr Neil and ourselves. Their conclusions are expert, detailed and very clear.
The short version is that they find the Scottish Government budget to have suffered real-terms cumulative cuts of around 6%. There now follow some highly selective quotes from their report that we’ve cherry-picked to make ourselves look good:
“We can now see the basis of the respective claims made by Andrew Neil and Wings. Both are quoting figures produced by the Scottish Government, (or by the Scottish Parliament, based on Scottish Government figures). But Neil is quoting TME, and Wings is quoting fiscal DEL – both are quite open about this.
The real questions then are: which of these two measures is the better or more informative to use? Or is there some other indicator that is even more appropriate than the two indicators quoted in the Table?
The answer on the first of these questions depends, of course, on what you are trying to do. But it seems to us that an indicator which is telling you about the scale of the resources which the Scottish Government can actually plan and control, and which leaves out non-cash elements which are not directly related to the funding of public services on the ground, is by far the more relevant indicator to consider.
In that sense, it is much more important to be looking at fiscal DEL, (the Wings choice), rather than TME (the Andrew Neil option).
It is quite wrong that a BBC programme, funded by the licence payer, should be advancing the position that TME is the appropriate measure to take for Scotland’s budgetary resources, without explaining there are large non-cash elements within TME which are outwith the Scottish Government’s control.
It is ridiculous to be arguing about whether the Scottish budget has gone down or not: in the sense that matters, it clearly has gone down.“
(Our emphases.) Clicking on the link will, of course, let you read the article in its slightly more nuanced fullness. But the Cuthberts’ findings unequivocally leave us in the position where the opposing teams in the debate are these:
THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERE CUTS TO THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT BUDGET SINCE THE CONSERVATIVES CAME TO POWER
– Wings Over Scotland
– Audit Scotland
– Fiscal Affairs Scotland
– Jim and Margaret Cuthbert
THERE HAVE BEEN NO CUTS TO THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT BUDGET
– Andrew Neil
Readers can decide for themselves which to support.
Hook the charlatan up to a lie detector – one which gives shocks when the liar is found to be lying. Make his teeth rattle and his brillo pad glow brightly.
On another note, Dugdale is appearing on The Daily Potlicks within the hour…
Neil is paid BeebTroll whose job is to deflect and derail debate away from anything which is critical of Establishment.
I like to support the plucky underdog, who deep down I know is never going to win, but lets me feel smug about not just being a glory-hunter and gives me that familiar feeling of disappointment in the end.
‘MON THE BRILLO-PAD!!!
“Hook the charlatan up to a lie detector ”
I would hook him up to a gibbet!
Correction
THERE HAVE BEEN NO CUTS TO THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT BUDGET
– Andrew Neil
– the BBC who tirelessly promote the erroneous views of A Neil and many others
Well I’ve always been a fan of accurately sourced information.
Devastating news for Mental Kev the pet shop boy. Has he written a blog debunking the Cuthberts yet so the Twitter Britnats have some straws to grasp?
O/T. Kesia has just stated on BBC Daily Politics that SLAB
have now got 30,000 members..Aye Right.
Hmm, first four or Andrew Neil, that’s a tough call!
Why do I get this picture of the all-powerful Wings sitting stroking his Emergency Kitten with the cowering Neil, Alex Neil unshaken before him? How did that turn out?
Macart
They don’t come much more accurate than the Cuthberts. Guess Neil won’t be answering Stu’s tweet with a date then
O/T but talking of Stu I posted this at the end of the last thread.
Severin Carrell this morning tweeted that Wings has been fined £750 by Electoral Commission for failing to follow their rules.
Do we need a crowdfunder to cover this Rev?
Andra, twit
Increased population and no growth. Things are on the slide. Westminster stagnation. QE = a fall in living standards.
Game,set and match to the Guy fae Bath.
I think Stu owns the rights to the book title: “Andrew Neil – My Part in his Downfall.”
Andrew Kneel will now scupper away back under his stone while they try to distract the sheeple with some froth in their peripheral vision so they don’t notice.
Probably use Eleanor of Ache-‘n-pain with another NHS tap dance, she hasn’t been given the ‘come by’ command for a wee while.
Jist cannae get they sheeple back in yon pen.
I think I had it correct in the previous thread when I implored history to judge Andrew Neil as the obsequious little lickspittle that he is.
Ach well, he seems content looking up to his “betters”.
The silence from Brillo Heid, and Propaganda TV is deafening!
They cannot come out to face you as they are able to avoid the truth by crawling under their UKOK rock.
On Propaganda Radio this morning George Foulkes was confronted about Labour not voting to totally prevent
the Welfare Cuts. He suggested the listener was a Nationalist for raising the point that they have in effect
proposed that the cuts can hit new claimants right away
and delay them for 3 years until the greater Universal Cuts come into effect.
This is something that the Labour Party seems to be boasting about?
They wonder why they get tagged Red Tories.
Ridiculous, without explaining, quite wrong, funded by the licence payer BBC…so how did Neil reply then?
Wings Over S******d Retweeted
Andrew Neil ?@afneil Oct 24
@WingsScotland Still clinging to the bollocks by little WingsTroll over Bath?
View conversation 74 retweets 83 favorites
Classy bunch.
It’s pretty obvious that the Rev has given Andrew Neil a jolly good threshing on this one.I can’t help but wonder though,if the Rev could have beaten him so comfortably back in the day,when Andrew Neil was at the top of his game ….before age took its toll on his faculties.
Well done, Rev. although there was never any doubt.
When I read the article last night, I skipped to the bits that made Brillo look bad, so you are quite right to highlight the bits that make you look good
Itchybiscuit – when you connect him up I would suggest an HT line say 300,000volts – that should make his hair stand on end, LOL.
Auld Rock
R4 @ 12.46pm, Now that 30,000 is a familiar number to me, I am positive that was the amount of new members to join the entire Labour Party or at least the Southern Branch when Jeremy Corbyn became leader. So I am interested to see oor Kezia, a lassie who should be at least put on the naughty step for lying, quoting this.
Leaving aside the economic win for Wings for a moment, let’s look at Andrew “Pantone Orange 021 U” Neil’s claim in summary in paraphrase style:-
“The English are such a generous nation that they are quite happy to allow the maintenance of Scotland’s budget while their own is savagely cut as a consequence of George Osborne’s budget deficit reduction plan.”
Really?
This belongs in a filing cabinet at the Mitchell Library marked “Names of people who claimed that Elvis Presley worked in a chip shop in Arbroath.”
If it was Nigel Owens refereeing it, I guess Andrew Neil would be getting an early Bath, but if it was Joubert, Neil would be given a last-minute penalty.
As Neil has currently slithered under a rock, to avoid a ‘veracity’ showdown with Wings, let’s invite slippery Neil to give an after dinner Wings charity speech?
Neil only charges £10 – £15K for his political munificence.
We could all chip in.
Worth every penny – not.
You’ll end up on a slab with a laser scoring it’s way towards your nether regions or he’ll send Odd Job after you
The BBC will camp outside your house rifling your bins and photographing your cat to find proof you’re an Agent and paid employee of Nicola Sturgeons private and secret agents against the great state….Or
Andrew Neill will just burst break down and cry
But I’ll bet he still says everybody else is wrong (Bluster Bluster Harrumph BBC Gobbledygook Nationalist Bastirt)
elvis
sharp intake of breath
I have it on good authority he is trying to keep a low profile while branching out into smokies…..or red herring etc
BBC Journalist caught telling porkies! Yep.
Interesting to hear Gary Robertson turn around todays story about the Tax Credits on GMS. Instead of asking Hosie about why the Tories were wrong. He continually tries to say the SNP were hypocrites, in backing the HOL. He forgets that the SNP want reform, and an elected second chamber. An elected chamber may also have voted down the Tories bill. But apparently the SNP standing up for the poor whatever way they can in a corrupt system is BAD!
this is better rev
I thought the twitter scenario question you posted in 3 tweets was a bit clunky and was not surprised brillo never answered
this on the otherhand is far more succinct and biting
its also from a respected 3rd party source
The stated mission of the BBC is “to inform, educate and entertain”. CUE: cheers,brava and applause.
As laid down by the Westminster Parliament in the BBC Charter.
Mr Venloufakis was on Neils show Daily Politics.
Mr Venloufakis stated his Socialist principles ,then turned to Neil and said ” From what I know and have heard about you Andrew ,you are far more right wing”.
Cue Neil “Don’t be too sure”
Mr Venloufakis is a very good judge of character.
If it’s true that Wings has a fine to pay then I for one have £50 ready to go to crowdfunder.
Since Rev can hardly propose setting one up its down to us to demand it of him.
@Rev
I put this question on the Cuthberts’ article but am unlikely to get the answer.
Can you do an article on “Block Grant”, exactly what it is (not vaguely), where to find out what last year’s block grant was, with .gov.uk or .gov.scot references, the BG for 2011, how DEL relates to it – or the other way around.
To be honest I can’t even form a competent question about the block grant, whereas I could about DEL / TME / AME. I did find this:
link to gov.uk
so, for instance, how would we find out what the block grant was for 2012-2013 onwards, and what the proposed UK Gov one was / is for next / current year?
I hope you’ll find it easy, I suspect you won’t!
All stand up and clap your hands, it’s the Revs birthday today.
Happy birthday!
Please be fair to Andrew Neil — he is paid to make the Scottish government look as bad as possible. Their catch phrase ‘SNP bad’ has to be seen to be true. His problem will be getting employment in an independent Scotland and he knows it!!
Thanks for this he he, it’s a belter.
Andrew Neil’s ambition always was to become a gadgee. He was ahead of his time.
Graf Midgehunter says:
27 October, 2015 at 1:54 pm
All stand up and clap your hands, it’s the Revs birthday today.
Happy birthday!
Happy Birthday dear Stu Stuart,
Happy Birthday to you!
Well, that seems pretty unequivocal. I guess then the wee vid I made earlier is on topic:
link to tinyurl.com
Spread it far ‘n’ wide folks.
Might be wrong, but did the EBC not run a workshop prior to the referendum with some of its more bitter employees explaining how bad SNP are and how to put the boot in. Believe they were pumping up the peasant part time employees of PQ.
Was,
Big Brian and old Brillo not two of the lecturers?
Well done Stu,taking names and kicking ass.
Bored with the easy game of debunking the pigmy hacks and grotesque political commentators of the Scottish MSM,
You take on the unionist dinosaurs of her majesties propaganda wing english bbc,
and through facts and Due diligence,you discredit and damage the reputation of one of the most blinkered unionists in the establishments payroll.
Yes, Yes that’s all very well Rev, but has anyone run this by
UKOK’s Kevin Hague ? (Surely a top Trump? )
R4 says
Eh it was 17,000 at their conference ?
@Gordoz,
Kevin Hague was last seen swinging back and forth ,pecking at a mirror, and repeating “who’s a clever boy then”.
No doubt he has Trill for dinner.Wonder who changes the sandpaper at the bottom of his cage? It must pay more than minimum wage as there is a lot of shit to collect.
O/T Thought this was quite amusing – sort of comedy hour reporting; read on and LOL
Gary Smith ‘from UK BBC Central’ (New head of BBC Northland News)
“The story of Scotland in a devolved UK is one of the most important themes of this decade.
“Reporting and analysing this with insight, accuracy and impartiality for audiences both in Scotland and the rest of the UK is one of the biggest challenges faced by the BBC now and in the coming years.”
Mr MacQuarrie said: “We had a top class field to choose from but Gary’s vision and ambition for where he wants to take BBC Scotland News in future was crystal clear.
“I’m delighted he’s heading back to Scotland and I know he’ll be a valued colleague.”
Just what they needed – more parachutes anyone ?
“If it’s true that Wings has a fine to pay then I for one have £50 ready to go to crowdfunder.
Since Rev can hardly propose setting one up its down to us to demand it of him.”
Much as it’d be tempting to put one up for fun and see how many minutes it took to hit the target, (a) we’re more than fine for cash at the mo, and (b) we’ll very likely appeal the decision anyway.
Has Crazy Jill started tweeting about the “discredited Cuthberts” yet?
Now that Andrew has been proven categorically wrong across the board. I hope he takes the time to seek out everyone he made out to be a liar and apologises to them. It makes you think though if he has gotten this so wrong who else has he smeared with his half baked figures.
Dear Rev
Happy Birthday, link to epichappybirthdaysongs.com
If we ever meet I will buy you a drink, promise!
Andrew
Ha, Ha, Ha, loved this little line in respect of the BBC’s usual introductory guff “The extremely highly-respected economic analysts”, had me grinning from ear to ear, you naughty birthday boy you!
Andra – a quiet “hands up” appears in order for you.
@Lollysmum
Heh, its not looking good for Mr Neil’s argument (as if it ever did). That’s a fair old range of sources and expert testimony.
Now seein’ as how this is a reasonably public slap, it’ll be interesting to see what Mr Neil comes back with. You’d think he almost has to.
..
“@WingsScotland Still clinging to the bollocks by little WingsTroll over Bath?”
I’m pretty surprised to see a veteran presenter spouting out such puerile remarks. You would still expect a bit more professionalism, even on social media. Maybe he was under the influence.
—
“It is quite wrong that a BBC programme, funded by the licence payer, should be advancing the position that TME is the appropriate measure..”
Ouch. I expect there will be a public apology and clarification on his next show. Not holding my breath though.
OK, Andrew Neil is trying to catch a politician out by deliberately using misleading measurements.
At best, that’s ego-trippery to make himself look clever.
At worst, he is deliberately giving a false impression to viewers.
Surely for a public broadcaster, it’s more important to be neutral and get the facts right ??
link to telegraph.co.uk
Ligger grade ProjectFearing of the day from this bunch of toryboy bullshiters. You have to UKOK wonder if any of these gimps grinding on about future Scottish tax dodging know that we know that they work for a couple of the finest taxpayers NOT, in teamGB?
link to bbc.co.uk
The brothers also own mail order firm Littlewoods, bought in 2002 for £750m. That purchase brought controversy after they ended the firm’s tradition of giving 1% of profits to charities.
And then they got knighthoods. Its only fackin money England.
Ah, ref my question to Rev I found this:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
“(It’s surprisingly hard to actually find out the size of the block grant, as it doesn’t appear to be published openly”
Indeed.
O/T more insight on ‘New’ BBC Northland head of news here
link to derekbateman.co.uk
good stuff
Happy Birthday!
I was just about to post more or less the same, Gordoz.
My own tuppence worth poses the question of Gary Smith, new head of BBC Scotland News, will he pass this first test of reporting the Andrew Neil v Rev Stuart Campbell with “a passion and commitment for providing accurate, clear, informative, honest journalism with integrity and impartiality”?
No, Gary Smith will be a complete failure by the standard he has set himself, from the word go. The man has picked up a poisoned chalice and he has no choice but to drink from it. He’s just got the job from hell.
Happy birthday Rev! Xxx
Another year older and a damned sight wiser than the non-believers and eejits on the other side will ever be
Hope you’ve got something nice planned for the rest of your day xxx
Absolutely great, the Rev has been a stalwart in such matters, but this is particularly sweet. Kudos.
One of the most cringeworthy things I remember About Neill was when he was sent up to Edinburgh to do a late night cabaret act to a selected audience a week or so prior to the referendum.
It was terrible to watch, what an a/s hole. Yet he was so full of himself it made me feel sick.
Latest from England
Cuts 6 – 0 No Cuts
scorers
WOS Campbell
Audit Scotland
Fiscal Affairs Scotland
Jim and Margaret Cuthbert
Andrew Neil (og)
Another giant killing act from The Scottish Political Arena.
Don’t you just love the romance of a cup final.
O/T – on the Vanessa Phelps show on R2 at lunchtime Jacob Rees Mogg used the following to explain what the HoL did last night.
“If you put it in cricketing terms it’s like the bowler running out the batsman when he’s backing up”.
Jesus Christ just who are these people? They are totally loony tunes.
Happy Birthday Stu.
Yea old Brillo is a grade A fud.
Hey whats this about you getting fined from those upstanding EC people(not),and does this mean the Daily Record,Tory,Labour and lib dems will be fined for breaking purdah or is this just more team GB rules for everybody else except team GB.
WOW!
It’s yer birthday Stu … you kept that one quiet!
Many happy returns and lang may yer lum reek for many many more of them!
@Onwards
That Andrew Neil tweet showed that he knew he was in the wrong.
@heedtracker
It’s GOOD for Scotland that the HMRC will crack down on this border-flipping, otherwise the ScotGov will lose income tax revenue. If they work in Scotland, they pay tax in Scotland.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone still pay Andrew Neil’s wages.
Its the Rev’s birthday?
Doesn’t look a day over 21.
I see you have made the Herald now they will all be on this story.
Happy Birthday Rev.
Yes campaigner Wings Over Scotland fined by referendum watchdog
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
27 October, 2015 at 2:33 pm
“If it’s true that Wings has a fine to pay then I for one have £50 ready to go to crowdfunder.
Since Rev can hardly propose setting one up its down to us to demand it of him.”
Much as it’d be tempting to put one up for fun and see how many minutes it took to hit the target, (a) we’re more than fine for cash at the mo, and (b) we’ll very likely appeal the fine anyway.
Can’t wait to see whatsisnames wee greetin face when you win the appeal Stu. Also dying to see what whatsisname tweets after you win the appeal … I’m betting “sorry” will NOT be in the tweet!
Those nice people at the Guardian have helpfully put a direct link to the Wings ‘donate’ page in their online article, so their readers can help out with the fine
The Scotsman NOT HAPPY with Kezia Dugdale plans
link to scotsman.com
Oh Dear
The Guardian’s chinless wonder Scottish Editor, Sererin Carrell (who in their right mind would punish their kid with the name Severin, by the way) used the last line in Stu`s missing ScotRail ticket receipts shock-horror to put the suede loafer in.
Guys called Severin don`t wear boots.
His opponents accuse him of distorting data, of being unjustifiably abusive, and repeatedly misrepresenting their views and the media’s reporting.
None of this little tirade is actually stood up with a quote from one of these allegedly victimized opponents. I guess editors don`t have to follow standard journalistic practices.
That`s pretty well got the Rev hiding with the dust bunnies under his cot, then.
What a vindictive little turd.
Neil was perfectly correct in saying that the overall budget was basically the same. What he refuses to say is that the part of that budget actually under the control of Holyrood is down in both real and absolute terms. In other word it’s a form of Chewbacca Defence.
In the inaccurate household analogy favoured in these cases it’s like arguing you’re just as well off now as you were years ago despite the bills you can’t avoid having risen leaving you with less disposable income. Never mind that that even if that hadn’t fallen it might still not go as far due to inflation.
Jim McIntosh
If you know anything about cricket, and some of us in Scotland do, what Master Rees-Mogg said makes sense.
To translate: “If you put it in cricketing terms it’s like the bowler running out the batsman when he’s backing up”. – this means, what the HoL did was legal, but, simply against the spirit of the game, and not done in polite company.
How I long for the day when our English “cousins” who work in the oil industry offshore and in Aberdeen have to pay tax in the country of their employ.
Some of the rigs I was on were as much as 80/20 in favour of guys from the NE of England in the numbers game. Think of a ball park figure of 50k a head salary and you have an idea of just how much Scotland stood to gain in tax from these guys if we had gone independent.
The Aberdeen onshore oil industry pretty much loses a large % of their “Engineers” on a weekly basis as they go back to Teeside etc. for the weekend. Guarenteed most of them took advantage to vote NO last year.
If you think the old Eton Tory boys are nepotic, they have nothing on these guys – one of the reasons I ended up in the Middle East was that I got sick of these chancers freezing good lads out of work because they did not have a TS1, NE or HU postcode.
Socrates MacSporran.
Thanks for clearing that up,
Not sure that I’d consider a house which condones Arsonists,(alleged) Child molesters serial flippers and failed business tycoons “polite company”
link to bbc.co.uk
Does anybody know this guy? Can we expect a difference?
Doug McG says:
link to bbc.co.uk
Does anybody know this guy? nope
Can we expect a difference? don’t hold yer breath
If somebody starts a crowdfunder to pay Rev’s fine it will obviously be hugely oversubscribed.
Can I suggest that any or some of the surplus be used to buy a few shares in each of the companies who own our wonderfully unbiased MSM starting with Johnston Press.
This would enable Stu to attend shareholders’ meetings and ask some nice awkward questions in his own inimitable way.
THIS IS A MUST WATCH if you want to know what is going on in the chess game of global finance.
Max Kaiser is not so much a financial commentator, more a surveillance satellite monitoring global finance.
link to rt.com
link to derekbateman.co.uk
Have just read the above and looks like normal service will be continued, will he have the balls to go native?
@Doug McG
Bateman says this dipshitz is going to phone it in from London.
The missus apparently doesn’t want to move to oh-so-tacky Glasgow so he’s going to commute.
Just keep on doin’ what cher doin’.
Tut! Posting about sport without the warning
This post is about sport
is just not cricket!
Totally brilliant!
Some very complimentary comments on the Herald EC fine article.
Does the Herald have a blogger of the Year award?
ifwe do need to crowd fund the revs fine, can excess be directed to this project?
link to indiegogo.com
if this were picked up by c4 or stv, the howls of outrage could be heard from here.
if these guys do this correctly, it could become a grenade in the arsenal and helpful at educating the no voters about the bias we complain about
if really successful, we could follow up with
how the record stole the referendum, ?
how the civil service stole the referendum, ?
the list is endless
On Gary Smith new head of BBC Scotland quoted in Press Gazette:
From the turn of the century, he has led teams on stories ranging from the Pope’s visit to the UK, the hunt for Raoul Moat, and the Scottish Independence Referendum last year.
“The story of Scotland in a devolved UK is one of the most important themes of this decade. Reporting and analysing this with insight, accuracy and impartiality for audiences both in Scotland and the rest of the UK is one of the biggest challenges faced by the BBC now and in the coming years,” Gary Smith added.
Derek Bateman says his family doesn’t want to move to Glasgow so he will commute from London.
Stu
That’s what I like to see -make them do some work for their fine.
If we did crowdfund it I would suggest 20 mins to reach target
Happy birthday Stu!
Celebrate by having a slice of Magnus Gardham washed down by a cheeky little appeal!
@Socrates – having played cricket many moons ago, if the bowler never ever threatened a batsman who was backing up with running him out, then there would be nothing to stop the batting side taking ridiculous liberties. Sound familiar?
Socrates, we’re no aw familiar wi cricket parlance, so thanks for the clarification.
I too wish Rees Mogg and his ilk would just speak proper.
@Rev (happy birthday), you really ought to read the Herald article and its comments – I think it’s another birthday pressie!
Maybe iScotland should have no taxes. Just get the Rev to crowdfund the Scottish economy. Gifts per level of contribution, mugs with “I funded a hospital bed”, “I paid for a school”.
Mmmm.
manandboy
Interesting video. Max Keiser doesn’t think much of Mark Carney.
Debt Resistance UK is very interesting.
link to thenewputneydebates.com
I listen to one of the videos talking about Pay Day lenders.
‘People go to Pay Day lenders because they are not paid enough.’
Pay day lenders are making huge profits.
Obviously these pay day lenders would not want to see people being paid more and the question is how much influence do they have over the UK Gov.
Looks like nothing is about to improve at the blatantly biased, propagandist, lying BBC jocklandshire at pathetic quay, with the appointment of its new head of news.
Apparently, having lived for 20 years in London, he doesn’t want to actually live in Scotland, so will commute.
Soon it will be hard to discern clear differences between BBC Scotland and this;
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
Got him by the short an curlies Stew, that is if indeed he has any, by the time he finishes reading your piece, which indeed he will.
Please respond to the ‘Cat’s plea for money for this documentary. It’s based on GA Ponsonby’s book which forensically deconstructed the BBC’s propaganda onslaught during the REF and MUST get made and put out there.This is the kind of film that will be seen by soft ‘NO’s and will change thousands over to our side.
link to indiegogo.com
my fave dads
James G Anderson
3:48pm
If Wings and Stuart Campbell did not exist Scotland would need to event him. He ain’t the cure but is as close to an antidote we have for the corporate print and visual media, which does not print or report facts but interpretations of fact masquerading as definitive view or received wisdom. Those interpretations themselves are based upon Editorial on Proprietorial ‘preference’ (that’s bias in the real world).
Here is a challenge to Dave McDonald, Ben Ashton, and Peter Maitland who were the first Unionists to accept the click-bait. Visit the WoS website. At your own discretion select one from, lets say, the last 25 articles…no make that the last 50 articles…review it and return to this forum and provide us partisans and non alike with substantiated evidence that (a) WoS is any MORE ‘propaganda’ than one or more of your own preferred news outlets (b) that Stu presents selective versions of the truth on any current lead story by comparison to those he is critiquing (c) that his articles are inconsistent, inaccurate or ignorant by comparison, say, to the writings of Clegg, Gardham, or Whitaker (d) that his print vocabulary is MORE unacceptable by comparison to, say, Massie, Cochrane, Wilson, Hodges, or Heffer.
He is excoriating, he doesn’t miss the target, he is unashamedly polemic. However, his articles are meticulously researched and his presentation of fact and sourcing is second-to-none. If he quotes qualitative or quantitative research he provides all relevant links or citations. And whilst he isn’t slow to offer and opinion he more often than not presents STRAIGHT intel and invites the reader to draw their own conclusion.
WoS is many things: it is neither ignorant nor lacking in intelligence. Same goes for the majority of posters on the WoS forum; where you will often find meticulously composed polemic or counter-point to mainstream thought. The sheer level of detail carried by that site combined with its repository of source material, provides an invaluable and user-friendly resource for anyone not requiring their political reportage to be filtered through the corporate media alternative-view extraction machine.
Half a million+ regular site visitors aren’t wrong. And remember this: if our country’s media was in any way representative of real-time, fluid political opinion in Scotland that need to event Stu would cease to be the case.
Andrew has merely adopted the proven tactic of pissing on your leg and telling you it’s raining.
…of course the budget has been cut!
Ruby
One thousand apologies dear lady. I considered my post deciphering Master Rees-Mogg’s point was about explaining colloquial upper class English language, rather than cricket.
In any case, to paraphrase the great Wullie Shankly: “cricket is not about life and death, it’s more important than that.
The post was only slightly about sport
Why is Rev Stu getting fined?
How can BT spend £4.5Million. (plus what UK Gov spent). YES campaign spend £1.5Million. The agreed spending limit was £1.5Million each. Yet BT doesn’t get fined.
Why is Rev Stu getting fined?
why isn’t the bbc?
In the light of Wings having a fine imposed on it for, I’m not sure what for
I bought badges,Tee shirts, re-printed the Wee Blue Book and campaigned for a YES vote in the Referendum
My wrists are outstretched ready for arrest and I freely admit my guilt by association. I did not charge for my time but it must have been worth something and if an hourly rate could be quantified, I donated it
I stand ready to accept my punishment for voting YES
hear hear
another post sticking it to cardham on the herald
Frank Wright
3:09pm Tue 27 Oct 15
..
I welcome the fact that this newspaper now allows a certain website to be discussed.
The article notes that it produced “a campaign booklet”.
Indeed it did… Here is some background on that, courtesy of the main author on that website that we can now freely name…
The Wee Blue Book, 300,000 printed copies and 800,000 downloads, was the major contribution to the Referendum Campaign. Wings has been almost entirely airbrushed out of the story of the campaign in the past year, as it always was expected it be not reported on – history is written by the media, and the media really hates being the subject of scrutiny rather than the scrutineer.
But it’s just laughably, embarrassingly petty on a basic journalistic level that not a single feature was written anywhere about the astonishing achievement of a thrown-together team of grassroots volunteers funding and then distributing a 72-page book of detailed, sourced arguments to every corner of Scotland in a few short weeks.
Those people got boxes and vanloads of books to every island, up every remote farm track in the Borders, every city and town and village, and the lack of coverage and credit they got for it is a disgrace to anyone calling themselves a reporter.
Rancid The Graun reportage on WoS outrage
“Describing himself as a former Lib Dem voter, Campbell raised more than £330,000 through online crowdfunding – more than any other yes campaign achieved from such appeals – for his own opinion polling, pro-independence advertising, his Wee Blue Book of pro-independence analysis and economic data, and to pay himself a wage to run the site.
But he has also divided opinion in the yes movement, with senior figures in the Scottish Green party and radical left openly and privately critical of his aggressive style and views. His opponents accuse him of distorting data, of being unjustifiably abusive, and repeatedly misrepresenting their views and the media’s reporting.”
So YES isn’t an actual cult then.
Thats nice of them, the malice dripping, lying hypocrites.
Libby Carrell adds that WoS has shown The Guardian up for what it actually is, reactionary red tory britnat, tooth and claw, but protecting silly YES sweaties from themselves too.
He’s doesn’t really. Honest The Grauniad? lol
I’m not that great at the old sums but listening to the economy figures on the news at various times today it would appear that England can’t afford to feed itself without reliance on the city of London Financial services paying for it as the whole of that country’s economy is in minus except for the Money Dealers and the Banks
AGAIN….
Andrew Neil is certainly a hard man I hear he wipes his backside with sandpaper !
Re: crowdfunding the fine.
How’s this for an interesting experiment? Start the crowdfunder BUT make the only contribution possible 50p.
How long would it take to reach £750?
@schrodingers cat
Mr Anderson pretty much nailed it.
Happy Birthday to
the ‘little Wings Troll over Bath’ !
Have a nice one Stuart
@R4 says: 27 October, 2015 at 12:46 pm:
“O/T. Kesia has just stated on BBC Daily Politics that SLAB have now got 30,000 members.”
Aye! and most of them are members of the Associated Scottish Labour Clubs.
cat –
good publicity for the Rev, I’m surprised Gardham went for that.
heed
good publicity from the Guardian too!
There ain’t no such thing as bad publicity in showbusiness.
Does himself no favours does Andrew Neil. Half of Scotland detest him because he is perceived to be one of the Beeb’s pitbull interviewers when it comes to belittling any form of Scottish nationalism.
No doubt privately, he’ll be spitting blood over the Cuthbert’s analysis, conclusions and condemnation of his point of view
…and yet at the same time, he’ll be thanking the gods that no media outlet will ever pick him up over his error.
The British State Media …so wonderfully impartial.
Ken500 says:
27 October, 2015 at 5:36 pm
Why is Rev Stu getting fined?
“The elections watchdog said Stuart Campbell, who runs the website from his home in Bath, south-west England, failed to submit the necessary invoices and receipts after registering as an official yes campaigner during last year’s independence referendum.”
Rancid Graun says.
Y’see its like this. Who knows who, and who knows how many activists stood around referendum postal ballot boxes day after day last year and they all watched as who knows who opened each referendum postal vote and examined the ballot paper.
Why the above took place, we’ll never know. What the above activists did with the results they saw on each ballot paper we do know partly, because Ruth Davidson announced the referendum result and how she was told the result by her activists who had been recording each postal ballot paper.
But all that’s fine according the EC. As is their historic The Vow fraud, or the farce of their purdah and the devo-max option that UK.gov banned from the ballot, or BBC paying its huge subs to hard core vote NO or else CBI. Everyone had their own WTF is the EC actually for and you can do this all day but its all about the power and who rules Britannia and ofcourse the Electoral Commission.
I have a postal vote. Never again though.
Hope you are having the best birthday Rev or the birthday cat!
You’re becoming famous! We all knew you would.
Good day to thank you for all you’re hard work.
O/T
If you want a laugh, then have a read at this.
The Glasgow Evening Times.
“Labour announces team charged with defeating the SNP for control of Glasgow in 2017.”
link to eveningtimes.co.uk
BDtT SAYS
“make the only contribution possible 50p.”
Cumon make it interesting make it a penny!
Oh happy birthday Stu
I see there is a big article in the Guardian (by Severin naturally)
I think Severin is gutted that it isn’t a £750,000 fine followed by hanging and drawing.
Livestream just announced that the Catalan Parliament is to cut ties with Spain and move to Independence! Should interest us.
Interview in an hour with Mark Mcnaught and someone else to discuss the issues.
On the O/T subject
This might explain why my teenage son received an email to vote on Labour leadership contest. He had been getting emails, but put it down to spam, until the vote link came through. He swears he has never joined, but has a vague recollection of something from school.
Incidentally, he is a member of the SNP since the 14ref.
Maybe their 30k membership requires investigation.
So all of this about Wings is in preparation for future Referendum and for all the issues debunked on a daily basis, so they can attempt to discredit.
A well know tactic, and it’s all the Unionist cabal has now, tactics, no substance.
@mealer says: 27 October, 2015 at 1:13 pm:
” … I can’t help but wonder though,if the Rev could have beaten him so comfortably back in the day,when Andrew Neil was at the top of his game ….before age took its toll on his faculties.”
Wasn’t it Mark Twian you said :-
I think Severin is gutted that it isn’t a £750,000 fine followed by hanging and drawing.
Or what that UKOK shill’s done to The Graun reputation and revenues.
At 8.00pm Catalan.
link to livestream.com
At 7.30pm Holyrood voting system
link to livestream.com
Kezia is even the talk of the Steamie “down under”.
Business Insider Australia:
“Jeremy Corbyn just found a way to get Scotland to vote for Labour again.”
link to businessinsider.com.au
@Big Jock says: 27 October, 2015 at 1:27 pm
“Interesting to hear Gary Robertson turn around todays story about the Tax Credits on GMS.”
Garry Robinson is, (arguably), the most idiotic, jumped up, self opinionated, useless waste of broadcasting bandwidth on any audio or video station in the entire broadcasting spectrum – and, wow!, does that encompass a very large number of useless rectums.
Mmmm, that little stint on the Herald was fun.
Why is it NO activists can’t back up their claims? Like ever?
O/T
Derek Bateman’s opinion of Gary Smith, the new head of “news and current affairs” at BBC Scotland.
“I’m afraid the evidence is that, Scottish or not, time spent wallowing in Westminster is no preparation for the nuances and tribal subtleties of a completely different culture.”
link to newsnet.scot
If today is Stu’s birthday that makes him a Scorpio. That’s the one with the sting in the tail.
Happy birthday Reverend of Bath.
Happy Birthday Rev, wishing you all the best.
As a famous Scotsman once said.
“Lang may yer lum reek”.
Caz-m @ 7.39
I concur.
“Lang may yer feet reek”
Happy Birthday.
Gesture politics:- even if Wings has funds from previous crowdfunders, lets crowdfund this “fine” to stick up two fingers.
Its all kicking off in Catalan online tonight –
Moving towards UDI
link to livestream.com
@Joe says: 27 October, 2015 at 2:40 pm:
” … It makes you think though if he has gotten this so wrong who else has he smeared with his half baked figures.”
Oh! That!
At a rough guess I’d say about 99.99999999999999999% of all the non-English Establishment guests who have had the sheer misfortune to have been close enough to experienced his halitosis.
@Dr Jim says: 27 October, 2015 at 5:42 pm:
” … Those people got boxes and vanloads of books to every island, up every remote farm track in the Borders, every city and town and village, and the lack of coverage and credit they got for it is a disgrace to anyone calling themselves a reporter.”
Ach! Weel! Dr Jim, They have to, “Call themselves reporters”, fir naebody else in Scotland maun dae sae
Um – it’s the kitten’s birthday, she gets to stay with the Rev as a special treat – cos he’s so sweet and strokey.
Happy birthday Stew,
And indeed it should be a happy one, ’cause you’ve got the unionist spluttering in their beer, or shorts, depending on which party you look at.
O/T
The conversation on Livestream with Simon Harris from Catalunya was fascinating. They are experiencing all the things Scotland did & still does.
Making the campaign out to be undemocratic, discrediting different figures, threatening military action (as Spanish govt said recently). They also said they’d been hit by a massive cyber attack from Russia, China & other countries.
The European press including UK is talking down their campaign-sounds so very familiar but they are ploughing onward.
@Alastair says: 27 October, 2015 at 8:16 pm:
““Lang may yer feet reek”
Happy Birthday.
“
Just as long as its not, “Lang may yer Rum Leak”.
Aye, the truth will out.. eventually.
It sounds like many of us are keen to crowd-fund “something” again, that’s a really positive thing and should only be encouraged.
If people want to make it a regular thing, somebuddy could always nominate a good indiegogo cause for the end of each month.. maybe even raise a modest monthly 4-figure sum.. if the boss is cool with it.. did someone suggest a Wingsathon idea previously?
Jist anither notion.
By the way, liked the recent ‘Readers’ Question Time’ article. Yeah, we like answers to questions and providing questions for answer, some moresome please.. RQT2.
Merry bday.
as I said last week, as a Chartered Accountant of >30 years experience.
Andrew Neil has brought the BBC into public disrepute in a manner that (this time) that cannot be dressed up as pure opinion, error or bad research blameable on someone else.
There is nothing new in this with him or at the BBC generally, and there are many others at the BBC doing it, especially in Scotland – but his arrogance and lack of insight into how others will see his out and out bias and propaganda this makes it particularly bad.
Of course the Corporate Media and BBC will not cover this scandal
Thank god for the new democratic media
Just out of interest ,has anyone seen the story about NHS Scotland meeting the waiting time target of 95%. In fact they exceeded it by .3%. Even the new hospital brought in over 90% of target.
It must have been plastered all over the papers surely.?
No ? Thought not.
Just out of interest ,has anyone seen the story about NHS Scotland meeting the waiting time target of 95%.
There was gentle sobbing heard from the BBC health correspondent’s office if that counts.
When the so called news media are getting so upset at the Rev and calling him all sorts while decrying every word he’s ever said, written or likely to write in his lifetime
It kinda shows that they’re in trouble when a bunch of us horrible fiendish yet gullible (all at the same time ) Nats are pissing them off big time
It amazes me how Extremist yet Stupid but Diabolical and clever I’ve become in such a short space of time and it’s all the fault of that evil mind bending manipulator
Rev Stuart Campbell,
How did he achieve such skill with him being more stupid than me
Bob Mack & Hand & Shrimp
You two should be a double act
Just out of interest ,has anyone seen the story about NHS Scotland meeting the waiting time target of 95%.
Its maybe hat the rolling monstering they get from BBC Scotland is a moral booster for everyone involved. Pretty bizarre way to flex UKOK BBC power though.
Nice to see another Libby Carrell tantrum tonight on WoS with accompanying crazy UKOK CiF. Quite bitchy for such a big girls blouse/red tory whopper teller of the millennium-
“His opponents(Libbs/Sevey) accuse him of distorting data, of being unjustifiably abusive, and repeatedly misrepresenting their views and the media’s reporting.”
Neil: no integrity, no accountability, what’s new.
Unfortunately had some CM exposure tonight, British sucking up to Iran now.
ITN: they want our mg cars! Yippee. Are they not made in India
G H Graham says:
27 October, 2015 at 1:17 pm
Leaving aside the economic win for Wings for a moment, let’s look at Andrew “Pantone Orange 021 U” Neil’s claim in summary in paraphrase style:-
Sir I correct you!
Pantone Orange 021 U, is so last year!
Brillo Heid’s colouring is “Rust”.
I have yet to hear Andrew Neil say any thing whatever in Scotland’s favor when discussing the economics of Scotland.He is a totally biased unionist.
Happy Birthday Stu.
Am up fur joining the Queue tae pay the Electoral Comm fine if needs be, £20 in PENNIES, an nain o thaim fae heaven lol.
Andrew Neil, the only man that has two weetabix for his breakfast , he eats one and sticks the other on his head.
Boom Boom
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday Rev.Stu
Keep on rattlin’ them bastards
Happy birthday to you.
Ah, happy birthday to the Rev’s emergency kitten.
As well
[unionist mode] Strange they share the same birthday.
I thought from the twitter that it was the Emergency Kitten’s birthday.
well whoever’s birthday is it (apart from A. Neil, of course), Happy Birthday.
Morgatron,
Ha-ha!
@ Handandshrimp Aw the Bbc urna sobbin that much on the 95% waiting times, they hud a backup NHS Grampain underfunded, SNP BAAD.
There should be a investigation into how Grampain NHS is run.
Cearc,
Thanks , it should have been shreddies , but his heads to big!!
Happy birthday, Puss, Rev whoever it is today! And tomorrow. And the next day!!
Libras are well-balanced, concerned about justice, weigh things up, love scales, like balances and detest waitie individuals who throw their weight around !!
@Wuffing Dug,
MG was sold to —wait for it——–CHINA.
I am the proud owner of am MG which is being restored.
Fortunately parts still available via clubs,enthusiasts etc.
Someone from the Herald posted a link to kevverage’s blog, and I made the mistake of having a quick look. Looks like he’s spilt some ink on paper, and neglected to check out GERS, for instance I checked 2009-10 Scotland deficit 10.6%, UK 11.1% (and that includes 100% of oil, whereas it should include about 10% oil). Don’t know where keverage got his ink, he makes Scotland worse off than the UK. Silly me, everyone knows 10.6% is a higher deficit than 11.1%.
Oh, it’s not the fist one, the pensions one, it’s kevrages own one underneath. I daresay Rev might have a bit of fun …
There was also a posting on the Herald proudly quoting Brian Ashcroft saying that in 32 years since 1980 Scotland would have run up a deficit of £15 billion to refute a WBB claim.
Umm, in that time the UK increased it’s debt from £100 billion to £1.3 trillion, a cool £1,200 billion.
Do NOers have no understanding at all of figures? Are they numerically deficit?
Another SG catastrophe- boosting the GP workforce and forging ahead with plans to integrate health and social care to address the demands of providing care in the community to an aging multi morbid population. What a calamity of biblical proportions-planning ahead, anticipating the future challenges and collaborating with the medical profession and SG determined to maintain a nationalised health service.
link to news.scotland.gov.uk
The Pavlovian MSM response will contort that into something that is problematic and retrogressive.
Social media is transforming the public sphere where a politically autonomous public of citizens can form and debate opinion in human community and solidarity. The MSM is being challenged to adjust to this new progressive politicisation of society that no longer looks to that medium for credible information. The truth is becoming an elusive concept for the MSM but not for the engaged and educated YES movement that has created its own matrix of accessible information and moves further towards the ultimate independence goal.
I’m inclined to believe that Neil is not lying as such – I think he’s probably smart enough to realise that’s a risky thing to do – I think he’s just been badly briefed. I wouldn’t put a retraction by him out of the question.
It’s very easy for Andrew Neil & all the other ‘UKOK Better Together Hate Preaching Con Artists’ to manipulate the electorate because:
You need a lot of spare time in order to be politically aware and to be able to spot the con.
You have to know the difference between DEL & TME, devolved & reserved matters & a whole host of other things.
For example to have an opinion on the ‘Tax Credits Cuts’ you need to know what tax credits actually are and that requires spending quite a lot of time doing research.
I’m finding that trying to become politically aware is proving to be very bad for my health. The more time I spend trying to get to grips with what is going on the less time I spend on sport
It’s a bit of a problem. Do I take a taxi to the polling station to cast my vote knowing exactly what I’m voting for or do I jog to the polling station and just vote for the candidate with the nicest smile?
I suppose if things get really bad and I’m suffering from deep vein thrombosis, obesity, diabetes and a whole host of other ailments brought on due to not participating in any sport I could apply for a postal vote.
@
Richardinho says: 28 October, 2015 at 7:47 am:
” … I think he’s just been badly briefed. I wouldn’t put a retraction by him out of the question.”
Nah! He’s just a hate filled “tractor”, who imagines himself far more clever than he actually is. If only he had the gift, “tae see himsel iz ithirs see him”.
In his line of business any really clever person would already know the true figures and if not would be smart enough to check them before broadcasting them.
His TV show has slipped from sharp political comment to be more a political sit-com. It has all the signs with the main character made to look clever by the same setup stooges in every episode. Neil tries far harder to be a stand-up political comic than he does a sit-down political commenter.
I meant to post this yesterday:”And if the SNP’s scarecrow division of the semi-deluded can cope with the idea that the party is not above criticism and that the media are not part of a sinister unionist command structure then we can all have a jolly nice time together on the journey.” Kevin McKenna.
Kevin you completely missed he point. Noone ever said the SNP were above criticism. What you did with the Michelle Thomson case, was jump on media contrived witch hunt. This was not about criticising the party on policy. It was gutter journalism questioning the ethics of an individual, because someone decided to dig the dirt. It’s the lowest form of gutter journalism, and it tainted peoples feelings about you.
We thought you were better than that,we were disappointed.
When you join in with the MSM you become part of them, like it or not. It was a conspired and coordinated attempt to unseat an MP, without any evidence. To date we still await any actual evidence!
Think before you join in next time Kevin! We are not Scarecrows. We care about Scotland, and by default we stick up for the members of the SNP, when targetted by a hateful media.
Je Suis Michelle Thomson.
Thanks Stu, it is one thing for us all to know that Andrew Neil is not neutral enough or balanced enough to be reporting for the BBC but it’s a much bigger task to conclusively publish the evidence that proves this to be the case. I don’t always like it when you shoot from the hip but I know we need you to provide properly evidenced challenges to mainstream media reporting. Thanks for doing what you do or at least most of what you do.
The Paisley grammer boy wants to be a sit down comedian.
I say “don’t give up yer day job” and STOP DYING YOUR HAIR!!.