The short version
Posted on
January 16, 2023 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Saw this on Twitter this morning. It’s pleasingly concise.
One day, even the diehards will see the pattern.
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I’m spotting a pattern here…
Yup 100% SNP were a different proposition under Alex Salmond. Under Nicolas leadership they have broken my heart and any hope that we could one day be independent
“Phil, a self-centred weatherman, goes to the town of Punxsutawney for an assignment. He is later shocked when he wakes up the next morning and realises that he is reliving the same day over and over.”
Very simple and easy to read.
This should be on every blog and twitter in the country.
On posters hung up across the whole country.
On leaflets, brochures as handouts at every stall or meeting of the YES movement.
ALBA should use it as much as possible when out on the streets.
If you want independence you WILL have to FIGHT for it, they will NOT give it to you.
Very simple and easy to read.
This should be on every blog and twitter in the country.
On posters hung up across the whole country.
On leaflets, brochures as handouts at every stall or meeting of the YES movement.
ALBA should use it as much as possible when out on the streets.
If you want independence you WILL have to FIGHT for it, they will NOT give it to you.
Its as plain & simple as that.
Mind boggling how so many still defend the SNP (lifelong member till 2019) …. but then I’m not religious either so ?
And the dangling carrot continues…
I gave up on posting on all social media over a couple of years ago. Being jumped on by the cult was becoming tedious and tiresome. You see, thats mostly what is left, especially on facebook, all these jumped up little diddys (yes, i’m looking at you too Peter Bell) who revel in their own wee echo chambers finally getting the attention they have sought all their lives and now have little interest in anything other than continuing their ill perceived positions of importance. Well they have learned from the best after all in the current shower of SNP MP & MSP shysters.
I doubt whether those f*ckers will ever give a shit about that pattern.
Aye …. that & a’ Eddie !
There is a very simple question to be asked of the SNP.
What is more important – Independence or Your Career?
If it’s Independence then every avenue must be taken to obtain Independence including collapsing the Scottish Parliament to have an Election as a defacto referendum.
If it’s not Independence then it’s their Career and thus they should resign from the SNP which is supposed to be the vehicle to Indy.
If they refuse to answer or give an “it’s complicated” or say one thing and their actions don’t support it…..
They don’t deserve a vote from independence supporters.
It’s just ONE simple question and we should ask this every day of everyone elected into office or in the management of the party.
“What is more important Independence or your Career”
No doubt the author of the above post was set upon by St Nicla’s attack dogs who’d just completely ignore the content of the message. The SNP are so like a cult that it’s scary.
“The more you ignore me
The smaller I get..
I’m wasting their time”
Wee song for Nicola there.
Is there any actual escape from this Hell?
No Indy championing credible competition ( or even avenues of contention) within the SNP Party, especially from the Westminster comfy crew.
We are probably looking at at least 3 Elections before any chance of SNP losing power in Scotland, and even worse, when they do, its back to square one.
Then again, as Fight Club Tyler tells us
‘..maybe self-destruction is the answer’
and
‘It is only after we’ve lost everything that we’re free to do anything.’
“One day, even the diehards will see the pattern”
Nope, I have no belief that they will, or want to. If you’re a true diehard indy supporter then the SNP’s intransigence, never mind what they did to Big Eck, will have been obvious long before now. Those remaining are soft supporters or career politicians who see the SNP as a path to a cushy job and pension.
Stephen OBrien says:
16 January, 2023 at 11:30 am
Yup 100% SNP were a different proposition under Alex Salmond. Under Nicolas leadership they have broken my heart and any hope that we could one day be independent
Couldn’t agree more Stephen, I now view the SNP leadership as anti-indy as Labour and the Tories, but are far more sleekit and conniving about it since they claim to still pursue independence. Anything the SNP do against furthering independence is deliberate and not accidental or due to incompetence.
Just imagine what might have been achieved if the SNP had used all those wasted years to improve all of the services they are responsible for in Scotland, and to demonstrate how Scotland could be a success as an independent nation.
Many of the people I have worked and campaigned with for indy will be gone by 2026 (I might well be gone myself, going by the longevity on one side of my family) – and they still can’t see through this.
How come they can see through the brainwashing of the Union but not recgnise the same tactics here?
Looks like there’s a 15min+ delay on posting comments here Stu.
Anybody left in the SNP is there because they consider the Party to be of greater importance than country and/or have quietly given up on Independence and regard politics as a means of making a living or a vehicle for driving forward minority issues.
Sturgeon & Co. in cooperation with the British State have quietly and deliberately led us to a new realpolitik, whereby the status quo is considered by both governments to be mutually sustainable and desirable. Neither will admit to it publicly however – it wouldn’t be in their interest to do so.
So, what’s your point?
Starkly succinct.
Honestly, at this point, I think the ‘diehards’ are unreachable. They’ve willingly abandoned all critical faculties. Supporting independence, & more specifically the SNP, has become more of an identity, like being in a gang for them. If you’re in the gang, you must accept unquestioningly everything & anything the leaders tell you. If you’re not in the gang, then you’re against us. If you dare to deviate – never mind criticise – from the leaders’ word, it’s a moral right, that you must be othered, ignored, or, vilified, particularly if that criticism stems from what they see as an influential source.
Of course the diehards will never admit it, it’s maoism in action
We are all Stephen OBrien…heartbroken.
Stephen OBrien says:
16 January, 2023 at 11:30 am
Yup 100% SNP were a different proposition under Alex Salmond. Under Nicolas leadership they have broken my heart and any hope that we could one day be independent
Somewhere on Sturgeons desk since she took over, is a rubber stamp used to print every election campaign.
This election will guarantee Independence.
It’s all nonsense and Scots are being led by the carrot on a stick.
You can indeed fool some of the people all the time.
Caroline Wilson @ 12:02 pm
“the SNP, has become more of an identity, like being in a gang for them”
Postcolonial theory confirms that, in the colonial environment the compromised national party “behaves like a gang” (Fanon). The party elites therefore uses denial as a psychological defence mechanism when faced with facts that are too uncomfortable to accept and which it rejects. What condemns the party is that the denials become more and more unbelievable.
A colonial administration thus “behaves like a gang”, tending to over-specify on procurements at inflated prices (e.g. ferries), funding its ‘friends and relatives’ (MSM, quangos, select party members etc), maintains relationships with external capitalism to continue to exploit the colony (e.g. renewables, oil & gas, energy, freeports etc), it builds up its pensions, it introduces laws (HCB, GRR) which ‘oppress the people’ (Mandela), becoming ‘an instrument of coercion’, attacks real independence supporters (Salmond, Murray, Wings, Grouse Beater etc), its task being to delay and even prevent independence (as per this WoS article), taking the people up successive ‘blind alleys’.
Which means we are reminded that fascism lies ‘at the root of colonialism’ and that a colonial administration will always look to apply ‘its punishment’ (Cesaire), remembering that fascism is ‘like a cancer’ and will seek to spread further if it is not removed.
Scotland is not in a good place folks, but at least we now know the ‘condition’ and therefore we also know the ‘cure’:
link to bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com
Simply Groundhog day again and again and again and again etc
link to youtube.com
Sturgeon is more astute than many people give her credit for. If a 2nd referendum was held she knows that NO would win again.
What sane, educated Scot would vote for Independence with the SNP in charge, given their track record over the past 8 years?
It is unclear if she would ever fall on her sword as Salmond did but a 2nd NO vote would signal the demise of the SNP and the end of the lucrative ‘jobs’ for the troughers. Far better for them to continually dangle the carrots for the benefit of the brain dead.
Scotland and the UK will not prosper until the Tories and the SNP are ousted. The prospect of Independence is at least a decade away, if at all. Of course, the BPHB would have it tomorrow, even with the SNP/Greens in charge. Thankfully they are in the minority.
The remaining SNP members may pretend that summary means nothing but more and more voters are starting to see through her lies. Keep shining the light on them. The old Political slogan still remains true…..”When you are sick of saying something, that is the point when people are just starting to listen”
link to youtube.com
They have a mandate or one of many. I held my nose by voting SNP for that mandate I won’t do it again under any circumstances in 2024.
They need to see in 2024 that they can’t keep procrastinating & lying to the electorate the Yes movement has to be firm & give them nothing in 2024 or they’ll just keep ripping the piss.
I’m wondering if it’s possible that, working on the adage that people get the govt. that they vote for, the dark truth is that most Scottish voters are actually happy with the immenence of the possibility of independence, but not independence itself.
Hear me out. Scotland returned Labour MPs for decades, even though it was self evident that no actual real change or differentiation of govt. was achieved. We’re living in a political groundhog day. Sturgeon et al and whomsoever is supporting/advising them (they are definitely not smart enough for this) are clearly working on this model…and sadly it seems to work.
Maybe an under considered part of Salmond’s genius was not just the rehabiklitation and socializing of the idea of Scottish independence, but the idea that it is necessary, desirable and actionable.
Who else in Scottish/British history has lied so much and achieved nothing for the electorate and has broken every manifesto pledge without having to resign or being asked to resign by her own party?
The MSPs, MPs are the only winners, the loser is Scotland and its people, no sane person can say that Westminster is denying democracy when it’s Nicola Sturgeon, no attempt has ever been made by her so say sorry or give a reason for lying to the electorate and failing to delivery any of her manifesto pledges or Independence.
We now know from the appointment of Mr Flynn as leader to the Westminster group he’s now a yes man and its about time the SNP membership started doing what’s right for country before leader, or else Sturgeon destroys it all.
Could the pattern be a contemporary take on the spider analogy – the wee thing happily swinging hypnotically back and forth on its metaphorical wrecking ball whilst the aragog macDonalds approach from the rear with new world menus and giant carrots?
If so the obvious solution might be to go further back for inspiration and embrace Alexander’s approach to the Gordian problem – fears of the neighbours and topsy turvy skippy types singing suggestively about tying down kangaroos and getting Bruce vaxed, boosted and fully ****** before coming out notwithstanding.
She is apparently miffed that Westminster may interfere in ‘Scotland’s Gender Recognition Bill’ – perhaps somebody should remind her that it is the SNPs and Greens recognition bill , I very much doubt that people of Scotland would want to own it.
Well, you all know what to do. Get this put on to Sturgeon’s social media accounts and on the accounts of *every* SNP politician and councillor. Let’s make sure they’re not allowed to forget how they are using and abusing our indy vote. Factual articles such as this sorely tempt me to re-join social media just to make sure it gets spread far and wide. Let there be no escape from the truth, folks.
Chas @ 1:05pm:
There’s a slight logical fail in your post, although I can see the general thrust of what you are saying.
However, if she was that astute, could she not have tried NOT having a shitty track record in the last eight years, and see how that had gone down?
Or could she just not be arsed with all that?
Could the pattern be a contemporary take on the spider analogy – the wee thing happily swinging hypnotically back and forth on its metaphorical wrecking ball whilst the aragog macDonalds approach from the rear with new world menus and giant carrots?
If so the obvious solution might be to go further back for inspiration and embrace Alexander’s approach to the Gordian problem – fears of the neighbours and topsy turvy skippy types singing suggestively about tying down kangaroos and getting Bruce vaxed, boosted and fully ****** before coming out notwithstanding.
link to youtube.com
As others have said, a wonderfully concise and accurate analysis of the last few years.
Sturgeon and the career SNP MSP’s and MP’s will always put their taxpayer funded careers first.
The harsh truth is that Sturgeon’s SNP are not interested in Independence and have no desire to bring it about.
Being against independence is a perfectly legitimate position but one would have expected those against independence to be in the Labour, Tory or Lib Dem’s rather than in the SNP.
JUST THIS:
Graf Midgehunter says on 16 January 2023 at 11:40 am:
“This should be on every blog and twitter in the country.
On posters hung up across the whole country. On leaflets, brochures as handouts at every stall or meeting of the YES movement. ALBA should use it as much as possible when out on the streets.”
I’d go one further and add: On A5-size card and put through every door in the country. And possibly with some other important article on the reverse. Or better still, cover the reverse side with all those indy-imminent type headlines from the SNP’s partners in crime, The National.
Caroline Wilson @12:02pm
> Honestly, at this point, I think the ‘diehards’ are unreachable.
If you can get trans-continental scale group-think on gender identity then the “I’m with Nicola” crowd don’t present a particular challenge. You will however notice that with each iteration the process gets more convoluted which no doubt adds more layers insulation between the issue and the Dear Leader. Now we have special conferences. Up next will be investigative committees, legal deliberations on the constitutional question, etc. etc. ad nauseum. All of which will present bales of straw for the faithful to grab hold of.
Sturgeon isn’t the only one using Independence as a means of making a living out of Independence and if it never happens that’s just fine as long as suckers out there keep donating to bloggers and buying a certain newspaper.
Nicola seems to have a new champion here comes Brian Cox he’s also a champion for a federal state.
We haven’t heard from lesley riddoch about the New SNP plan, I bet she and others who right in the rag are just fine with what’s on offer from the woman who said Independence isn’t about one person.
She’s a real Nowhere Man
Sitting in her Nowhere Land
Making all her nowhere plans for nobody
Doesn’t have a point of view
Knows not where she’s going to
Isn’t she a bit like you and me?
Nowhere Man, please listen
You don’t know what you’re missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command
She’s as blind as she can be
Just sees what she wants to see
Nowhere Man, can you see me at all?
Nowhere Man, don’t worry
Take your time, don’t hurry
Leave it all ’til somebody else lends you a hand…
This is so true, the SNP and the Greens have been dangling the indy carrot under our noses for years now with absolutely no intentions of ever achieving independence.
A vote for the SNP or the Greens is a vote to remain trapped in this onesided prison of a union. If you are still voting for these two parties then you are not interested in Scottish independence.
We must vote for the Alba party, the only major party that wants Scottish independence.
Vote Alba, Join Alba, get the SNP/Greens out of office.
For those who still support the ‘softly, softly [never] catchee monkey’ brigade, this pattern will be just another red rag. They are quite prepared to sacrifice everything and everyone to maintain the fiction that independence is coming through the SNP/Greens. Neither party is now in favour of independence except as the clarion call. Both are devolutionist parties, and the sum total of their ambition for Scotland is to turn it into the ‘woman facing’ capital of the UK, where a GRC can be had for a mere statement of intent – rather like those two parties themselves. Yes, I promise to be a good ‘girl’ and live as a ‘girl’ my whole life – or just as long as it takes for me to finish my sentence for r**e in the female prison estate. False promises and no one to police them. These two parties know how to con people and are extending the invitation to do the same to their (pretend) TQ pals. Help yourselves, the Scots are as dumb as they come and we should know, we’ve been conning them for years.
Here is another interesting piece of legislation passed that has gone over Scots heads.
The independent bank of England was solely the bank of England as a private corporation, even in the Treaty of the Union and had direct connections to the british Westminster governments chancellor of the exchequer and treasury until the bank of England was nationalised in 1946.
So any monies raised in Scotland were not in a union bank nor in joint British Bank.
So while the bank of England was not a Union or Great british bank until nationalised in 1946 I wondered what the Scotlands share of national debt was, or was to a private corporation bank acting as a bank only?
HC Deb 1888,
Banking-Scotland and Ireland.
MR Caldwell. Speaking, addressing Mr Goshen, Chancellor of the Exchequer,
“The English Bank of England was separate in debts owing to that of Scottish banks and notes issued, With Scottish, had no better security for repayment than any ordinary creditor of the bank, Thus Scotch banks have adopted the principle limited liability.
See: Bank Act 1844.
Government Debt, to the private Bank of England corporation in 1844 was £11, 015,100, while Nothing to do the Scottish banking system of limited liability.
@alfbaird I’m glad you post this info.
My question is, how long do you think it will take before the compromised party are removed and do you think it’s going to get much worse, ie you mention fascism, before it happens
Are ALBA planning to stand candidates for Westminster in 2024.
Will Kenny and Neale be able to keep their seats?
Breeks,
Alf Baird,
Have you ever wondered or researched in UK legislation why Scotland would owe debt to a private corporation bank of England that which was not in the treaty of the union, nor was it nationalised as British under legislation until much later in Westminster parliament of Great Britain,
Where does Scottish debt begin and end if we were to become a independent Country to the Bank of England and the Treasurary?
Scotlands National debt?
To Whom ?
If they don’t use the 2024 Westminster elections as a defacto referendum, and we have to wait for the 2026 Scottish elections for one, what’s the point in voting for them at all in 2024? To get another pretendy mandate for a 2nd indyref that they have no hope, legally, of ever delivering? Aye right.
There would be absolutely no point in having even a single MP in westminster apart from keeping the gravy train trundling down the tracks to bonanza pension land. We’d be nothing more than voting fodder to keep them in their useless, lucrative lifestyles.
Sod that, if they don’t use the 2024 GE as a defacto indyref lets teach them a lesson and vote them out. Every single one of them. We’d have nothing to lose and it might just get Sturgeon the betrayer to stand down if we’re lucky.
Johnny @ 1:30pm,
I’m not sure anyone can take Chas seriously, he’s continually on here complaining that nobody should vote for independence in the current circumstances, he pokes fun at the people who believe Scotland would make better decisions than Westminster, he calls these people the BPHB.
He distorts and misrepresents their view of an independent Scotland as some kind of Utopia and dismisses them as fantasists.
He pretends to be an independence supporter and suggests that the fantasists that believe in a Utopian independent Scotland are wrong, his logic for this dismissal is that votes for independence should only be considered when and only when there is already an active Scottish Utopia.
ScotsRenewables,
That’s a good question, would you like them to keep their seats?
It boils down to either being a supporter of independence or a supporter of the SNP. The two choices are becoming mutually exclusive.
@Liz
Hi Liz, as you may already know: there’s a real wealth of writing out-there on the subject of colonialism (Eric Williams’s Capitalism and Slavery, is highly accessible). If you haven’t already done so: go to Amazon and buy yourself a copy of Alf Baird’s: Doun Hauden, and find-out how colonialism works and is perpetuated here in Scotland. All the best.
Liz @ 2:25 pm
“how long do you think it will take before the compromised party are removed and do you think it’s going to get much worse, ie you mention fascism, before it happens”
This perhaps depends on how long the masses take to figure things out, according to postcolonial theory. A problem is that the peoples understanding of their situation often ‘remains rudimentary’ in part because the nationalist leaders have never undertaken ‘a reasoned study of colonialism’. And here ‘the colonized must start with his oppression, the deficiencies of his group’.
There is always ‘a drama’ to unfold with events such as national independence; but the fact remains that ‘only the complete liquidation of colonization permits the colonized to be freed’. Failing which, oppression in all its various guises will continue, much as it has done since 1707, if not before.
I personally think Sturgeon is stunning and brave…
…using the same old formula to repeatedly win!
James che @ 2:29 pm
“Where does Scottish debt begin and end if we were to become a independent Country to the Bank of England and the Treasurary?”
They would make things up, which is what they do; the UK ‘union’ itself is a ‘cultural illusion’, and a political deceit. Colonial reparations might reasonably be on the negotiations agenda. What is the cost of the damage the ‘union’ has caused to Scotland and its people? And what has been the ‘opportunity cost’? A colonial balance sheet can be drawn up. That might even be considered the responsibility of a ‘nationalist’ government!
This was written by me (same twitter handle). Thanks for sharing and for the feedback.
We must not forget Scotland’s entitlement of 8.4% of all UK Assets
Four Trident Submarines
Six Astute Class Submarines
200 Nuclear Warheads
An array of Surface vessels including Two Aircraft Carriers with very expensive Aircraft.
The entire RAF fleet of Aircraft
How much are all those Challenger tanks, Troop Carriers and missiles worth.
HS2
CrossRail
Channel Tunnel
The Falklands and Gibraltar
The Gold Reserves, Bank of England Cash Reserves etc etc
I reckon we will be due Several Billion Pounds for the buy out of our “share” after all it always appears on GERs.
Then we get to the Assets such as Oil & Gas stolen from our waters plus the 300 years of theft marked down in the accounts ledger as “In support of the Empire”.
Will we be due 8.4% of the £45 BILLION stolen from India?
I think the Norwegian National Fund equivalent would be a dreadful under estimate of what was stolen from Scotland just in Oil and Gas.
I do think many Scots are comfortable are voting ‘against’ the English electorate knowing sub-consciously that it amounts to nothing. It is a protest vote but with no real consequences.
Voting Labour for 60 years blindly, knowing usually England would overrule us by weight of numbers at Westminster, where the real power lies.
And now we are back in the same political comfort zone, only we replaced Labour with Sturgeon’s watered-down, go-nowhere SNP. Imagining that we are being ‘rebellious’, but deep down knowing absolutely nothing of consequence will change.
The idea of actually achieving independence and there being real and very direct consequences of the parties you elect I think scares the average SNP voter shitless these days.
“There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.”
It is their will. They don’t want to see.
I realized this during the gradual uncovering of the Salmond stitch-up. It does not matter how much evidence and information comes to light they will never acknowledge it. Their egos are too ‘invested in it’. Even when it is staring them in the face…
I think Scotland’s electorate in general is a case of ‘arrested development’. It never mattered who we voted for (and doesn’t again) so in a sense we never matured politically, we never grew up.
We just latch on to one Scottish Peter Pan Party after another.
Act rebellious with a typically Tory Westminster government, talk tough, but achieve and do nothing, dangle the same old mouldy carrots every election. It is exactly the same pattern that Scottish Labour did for decades.
Given the control over the media at all levels it is perhaps miraculous we even have this pitiful situation. It is hard to see how we break this grip, this spell they have over people, the lights are on but there is nobody home.
So Sturgeon the Judas had a cosy wee meal in Inverness the other night with Scotland’s Governor General Alister Jack, and the English PM Rishi Sunak.
No doubt those three b*stards were deciding best how to keep Scotland under the Westminster thumb, with Sturgeon the Judas playing her part in Scotland.
Was the special conference deliberately timed so that there wouldn’t be enough time to collapse Holyrood and have a May plebiscite, they could have held their pretendy indy conference in January (like ALBA) and got this all done and dusted within a few weeks. There is no passion for indy within the party and supporters really do need to start looking critically at the SNP and all the baggage they have acquired since AS left.
The majority of Scots don’t want it, and Sturgeon the Judas had no mandate for it, and it wasn’t in their most recent Holyrood elections manifesto.
Sturgeon the Judas never got this fired up when the UKSC blocked Holyrood from holding an indyref. The Judas didn’t send her GRRB to the UKSC to see if her treacherous government/party had the competence to implement it, but she did do it with the indy bill.
“FIRST Minister Nicola Sturgeon has said it would be an “outrage” if the UK Government blocks Scotland’s gender reforms from becoming law.”
link to 12ft.io
Vote Alba, Join Alba, get the SNP/Greens out of office and tell them where to shove their carrots.
Given how useless the MPs are (even if they WERE Pro-independence), we’d be better giving the SNP a bloody nose at Westminster if the subsequent Holyrood elections providing a majority is a strong enough case for independence without the SNP MPs as a bulwark against Westminster (as if).
Over to Salvo / Liberation?
Scotsrenewables says:
16 January, 2023 at 2:25 pm
Are ALBA planning to stand candidates for Westminster in 2024.
Will Kenny and Neale be able to keep their seats?
I suspect it will be very difficult for them. It will be interesting to see the opposition. Who will the SNP put up. SLAB and CON too for that matter. A split indy vote will probably allow a Lab/con/libdem in. How vigorous will the SNP campaign be? Several ways to read it.My suspicion is that SNP will see ALBA as a greater threat than the Tories/Lab and fight with full venom.
How about the UK media reporting on a real scandal going on right now under the orders of the UKGov? Folk on ‘PIP’ and other benefits are being assessed via phonecalls by personnel who have no history with the claimant. As a result folk are having their benefits cut.
True what they say, what they give you in one hand they take away from the other hand. UKGov give out “cost-of-living” payments then sneakily claw it back by cutting the benefits of the sick.
UK media scumbags, sweeping scandals under the carpet. Shame on the UKGov and their DWP. Filthy rotten scum!
You see what I mean about a broadcasting network that gives a weekly public broadcast slot on health matters to the Scot Gov and then spends the time speaking about political matters like GRRB. The Scot Gov have not declared a major critical incident for the SNHS or any health board. They have actively disassociated themselves from the decision making process preferring to devolve that responsibility to health boards. Convenient. Meanwhile report from the front line. The number of avoidable deaths has stayed the same last week. It’s only 65 thankful for small mercies.
Douglas Leighton says: at 4:36 pm
I suspect it will be very difficult for them. It will be interesting to see the opposition. Who will the SNP put up. SLAB and CON too for that matter. A split indy vote will probably allow a Lab/con/libdem in. How vigorous will the SNP campaign be? Several ways to read it.My suspicion is that SNP will see ALBA as a greater threat than the Tories/Lab and fight with full venom.
Indeed, no doubt a difficult task to hold their seats. But due to the circumstances of MacAskill and Hanvey becoming Alba MPs, are all the staffers in their respective constituency offices truly aligned and onboard with Alba, or do some still hold SNP sympathetic views… I see strangers…
I do wonder what the likes of Wishart and his coterie of do-nothing SNP MPs think when they see this. It is clear as day. Their is no doubting it, at all.
Their is now, we know, without any doubt whatsoever, an absolute mechanism for Nicola Sturgeon to dissolve parliament and call a Scottiah election as a de facto referendum, THIS YEAR, within just a few weeks.
Nicola Sturgeon, who claims to want independence, chooses not to do so.
We COULD be independent THIS YEAR. Just think about that, yet the SNP CHOOSE not to.
I have little faith that the current membership will notice or, even if they do, care.
One of the most depressing aspects of having moved from a broad-church Independence movement to a mass-membership political party is the change in focus and loss of direction. These new members had to come from somewhere and most came from a unionist background, bringing that particular approach to politics with them.
Winning elections at all costs is all that matters. Nuance out. It is impossible to be a nationalist without being an intersectionalist. Scottish Independence is no more important than any f the other aggressions and micro aggressions perceived or real in society and the pursuit of it cannot be progressed until all others are equally attended to also.
The concept that a branch/CA/party could accommodate both blue-rinse conservatives of the Scottish variety and the reincarnation of Red Clydesiders is beyond their ken. The idea that it is the cause that matters and not merely the pursuit of power beyond them. That people can be brought together in the pursuit in an overarching goal, accepting that they will disperse on achieving it to pursue their other fliers, anathema.
It is hardly surprising that the party itself would then change to mirror this new cohort in some way: though quite how willingly that change gas been adopted by the leadership is both shocking and disappointing to see. Independence in the nuSNP is as much a chimera as Clause 4 is to nuLabour. At best it has become an ‘underpinning principle’. in reality it has become a carrot to be dangled. Nothing more.
It can only be hoped that Alba or some equally prominent alternative can last until the next HR election. It has made mistakes, it’s unpolished, its bloody unfocussed and ‘unprofessional’ in parts, but it’s unclear what a supporter Scottish Independence will be able to vote for without something other than the SNP
…and more to the point, let’s suppose Sturgeon really does want a section 30, but London keeps saying NO. Well, here you have a rock solid way to force London’s hand. Give us a section 30, or we dissolve parliament, and hold a de facto referendum.
But, she won’t.
@ George Ferguson at 5:13 pm
Well you may recall this article which highlights some of the issues.
link to robinmcalpine.org
Two or three times now, I’ve heard from different people, ‘aye well, if we had won a referendum / do win a majority vote for Indy… then Westminster will not honour it, and it will provoke Scots to terrorism type activities like in Northern Ireland’.
Each time said with a kind of detatched philisophical attitude, as if recalling old history. A complete capitulation handed over, and with which they have made their peace. They being so much more intelligent than us plebs, that we don’t even get a say, never mind a chance to resist.
But here’s the rub, they would never, ever see themselves as anything other than the staunchest of Indy supporters.
They are most assuredly the block in the neck of the bottle now, as far as Indy is concerned. ‘Tis nothing more than a comfortable club for them to dream about what the perfect Indy Scot would look like… A green and socialist utopia where everyone is nice and kind and it never rains on your days off.
My perception of the currently laughable situation with SNP and NS is a bit like the Jeremy Corbyn Labour leadership.No socialist, however benign will be permitted to prosper.The might of the assembled brit/ USA/ Israeli/media establishment was brought to bear on Corbyn. He didn’t have a chance. Starmer has been (painfully slowly) somehow ‘shaped’ to look credible despite him having the charisma and gumption of a plate of carefully broiled and seasoned donkey turds. No doubt the British public will tuck in heartily as they reflect on the options of Tory slime mucous soup, and libdem shifty shitsniffers.
I suspect Scottish Independence faces the same implacable opposition that Corbyn faced.
In the event of Scottish independence it would break the foundations of the entire current UK democracy sham. An outbreak of democracy is not really an option. If the UK, one pillar of ‘western civilisation’ authority alliance, that holds up the global order, were to fall, it would cause an earthquake that might interrupt the march of military technology. But let’s not worry. It wont happen.That’s the point.
@Dan 5:39pm
Hi Dan yes I recall this article. And whether we gain Independence or not. The structural and process difficulties of Holyrood cannot be ignored. I filled out my profile on my membership of Alba today. I said Independence, Anti GRRB and the creation of a Public Energy Company. I should have added the reform of Holyrood as a functioning Parliament. I can always update my profile.
Just heard on the radio that the UK Government has decided to block the GRRA, preventing the Act from getting Royal Assent. This was apparently done under a Section 35 Order. Sturgeon had said this would be an outrage, and that she will seek a judicial review of the legality of such an Order. The Section 35 Order is foreseen, apparently, in the Act that brought the Scottish Parliament into existence, but has never been used before.
Alastair Jack says that if the Scottish Government brings an amended version of the GRRA, there could be a compromise worked out which would be acceptable to the UK Government.
Radio commentators are saying this will cause a crisis of a constitutional nature. My comment would be that that will lead us into very strange territory. Strange, but interesting. The way Sturgeon has been talking, she is actually showing her total ignorance and indeed denial of the fundamental and long-established principle of the constitutional tradition of Scotland, according to which the people are sovereign.
She has argued vociferously that the reason why use of the Section 35 possibility by the UK would be an outrage is because the Holyrood parliament passed the GRRA with a clear majority. In other words, she is arguing that Scotland’s parliament is sovereign in Scotland, and NOT Scotland’s people. And that is what she has always thought and presumed, not only because she is ignorant of the real tradition, and of the reality of it, but also because she is at bottom a very British politician. And not a authentically Scottish one at all! Her assumptions are typically and parochially British – not Scottish and, to boot, albeit incidentally, not European either.
So, granted that public opinion in Scotland is overwhelmingly opposed the GRRA, and presuming that that opposition will be maintained once all the issues are more widely known – actually, my view is that such opposition will grow when people become more aware of what has been going on – we will be in the position we have already foreseen according to which the Tory Government will be (unwittingly, of course) in line with the Scottish constitution while the Holyrood Executive will be opposing it.
All this may be surreal when we think about it. But beyond mere thinking, how will it pan out in practice? I don’t know, but I imagine it will bring all the constitutional questions out, moreover – at least potentially – with consequences that neither N S nor her minions ever imagined. And the Tories won’t have imagined either.
In that regard, could this be the trigger that really lets the genie out the bottle? Is it going to be game on?
Ha ha! Westmonster blocking the GRR. GIRFUY STURGEON. Shame on you for not listening to women.
I wonder if she will “respect” this decision like she did over court of session.
Here’s the SNP resolution choice 1 – what am I missing; where does it state they will request a s.30 after the 2024 GE (Choice 1 only)?
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CHOICE 1
In the absence of an agreement having been reached with the UK government to enable the Scottish Parliament to legislate for an independence referendum, the SNP will contest the next UK General Election as a de facto referendum.
The SNP will make clear that it is asking people to vote SNP in that election to indicate that their answer to the question “Should Scotland be an independent country” is Yes – and that it will interpret votes for the SNP on that basis.
The SNP will set out – in advance of and during the election campaign – the inextricable link between that question and the issues that will be central to the election – the economy, public services and Scotland’s place in Europe and the world – in that independence is essential for Scotland to address these issues and build a fair and prosperous country.
If a majority of those voting in the election vote SNP – or if the combined votes for the SNP and any other party with which it has reached a pro independence agreement in advance of the election constitute a majority of votes cast – we will consider that a mandate to enter negotiations with the UK government to secure independence.
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It is the alternative motion below that goes down the s.30 route – the SNP ‘special’ conference in March presumably gets to choose.
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ALTERNATIVE
(as an alternative for the above 4 paragraphs, substitute:
In the absence of an agreement already having been reached with the UK government – and given the UK government’s ability to call a General Election at a time of its choosing – the SNP will contest the next UK General Election, on whichever date it is called, on the issue of securing agreement for a transfer of power to enable the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a referendum.
The SNP will make clear that it is asking people to vote SNP in that election to indicate support for a referendum.
If the SNP wins a majority of Scottish seats, it will take the demand for the necessary transfer of power to the UK government.
Should that demand – backed by the Scottish people – be denied again, the SNP will contest the Scottish Parliament election in 2026 as a de facto referendum.
The SNP will make clear that it is asking people to vote SNP in that election to indicate that their answer to the question “Should Scotland be an independent country” is Yes – and that it will interpret votes for the SNP on that basis.
The SNP will set out – in advance of and during the election campaign – the inextricable link between that question and the issues that will be central to the election – the economy, public services and Scotland’s place in Europe and the world – in that independence is essential for Scotland to address these issues and build a fair and prosperous country.
If a majority of those voting in the election vote SNP – or if the combined votes for the SNP and any other party with which it has reached a pro independence agreement in advance constitute a majority of votes cast – we will consider that a mandate to enter negotiations with the UK government to secure independence.)
—————————————————-
Clearly, I don’t like the Alternative, and I am hugely pissed they have not gone for a Scottish election in 2023. However, the option for the SNP membership is to vote for Choice 1 above and force Sturgeon’s hand on a GE de facto referendum in 2024.
Choice 1 isn’t good either BTW – it needs to be a Scottish election for a better chance to win. I don’t know what it is I’m missing – has Sturgeon already dictated that the Alternative is the one to be taken?
WTF is going on? I simply can’t work out her logic at all; I’m clearly missing something.
TransCult in meltdown on Twitter…..good news. Any muppet who tries to tell me this is bad for Holyrood rule can FO.
Ya fkn beauty! GRRB to be blocked. Ha ha ha. No more needs said
Breastplate
Who are these people that will make better decisions for Scotland? Can you enlighten me? Names would be helpful.
In front of the Scottish electorate is a big door marked ‘Independence’. Nobody really knows what is on the other side. Some people are quite happy to walk through that door irrespective of any possible horrors when it is opened. Of course, Sturgeon and the SNP, however much they decry them, would be in charge of EVERYTHING in the brave new Scotland.
Other individuals are a bit more circumspect and would like at least some detail of what may lie beyond. I have stated umpteen times, things I would prefer to have some inkling on. I know that issues such as MONEY, currency, borrowings are of no real interest to the BPHB, but strangely, others in Scotland have a more than a passing concern.
Guess which camp the BPHB is in? Of course, anyone who is not a fully fledged member of the ‘happy clappy’ club is simply a Unionist!
I can only assume that YOU would vote for Independence tomorrow, with all the uncertainties, knowing that Sturgeon/The SNP/The Loons in the Greens would be in total control? Thankfully you are in the minority. The sane and sensible Scots will continue to look after the interests of you, your kids and grandkids.
No thanks are necessary to us.
“Who are these people that will make better decisions for Scotland? Can you enlighten me? Names would be helpful.”
They’re called Scots.
While your demanding every little detail about a future Scotland why not provide the details of a future UK.
What about the next financial meltdown?
How will the UK deal with the next pandemic?
When will the government cryptocurrency be unveiled?
How big will the National Debt be?
No?
How about the lottery numbers then?
Trotters Independent Traders.
That’s my GRC application feked ( well done Mr Jack ) ah didnae really want tae be ah double wardrobe loL .
There wont be a referendum any time soon Sturgeon will be to busy fighting the section 35 order & another lost cause F her .
I will share this on social media, but I just want to check that it is correct. Is it? Has anyone checked it?
@ Chas says on 16 January 2023 at 6:54 pm
What’s wrong? Morris dancing classes cancelled this week?
Either give it a rest with the trolling of threads and personal insults of others on here or get to fuck. You’ve been warned, as one of a group on here, umpteen times by Stuart and you think you’re clever still referring to the ‘Bonny Purple Heather Brigade’ as soon as he’s warned Yous.
You’re also a hypocrite. Demanding detail on certain situations yet when asked questions you body-swerve them in a variety of ways. Show me one single country on this globe of ours that hasn’t committed some kind of atrocity or operates some seriously questionable law(s).
You can’t, so fuck right off with your constant shit of trying to associate Skanky Sturgeon’s hobby-horse with the merits of our right to self-determination. I notice too, since Ellis’ self-imposed time-out, you’ve become more active. Aye! It’s a funny old world, isn’t it! Now back off to your Red Tory hovel.
If you want genuine answers to your questions then learn to ask others properly, without the condescending superiority attitude and closet racism on show.
They could close Holyrood.
Look at all the shit bills they’ve written (& failed to pass with legal costs).
All the court cases.
All the agents to find shit on Salmond.
All the man-hours wasted talking absolute shite in parliament.
It’d suit Sturgeon. She’d rather torch it than see someone else take over from her.
Narcissistic shite biter!
We’ll have her running back to her broom cupboard now to do a televised address to YouTube.
This one goes out to all the Lola’s out there..
Vote for us to introduce this again in 2026, 2031, 2036, 2041 & 2046. Sometime never. 😀
As a Kitled Kiwi I have the option of pissing off to NZ. After 2018 I vowed that would not be before Indy. I want a Scots Passport before I go.
Now I’m 57 and planning my retirement. I will almost certainly retire to NZ. I’m now in the position of all this twisting about that I will go come what may now.
If the voters do not wake up over the GRR etc and the lack of progress to Independence and vote ISP or Alba then fuck it. Scotland doesn’t deserve or want to be independent.
Breastplate-Stoker
No answers to any questions I posed. No surprise there! I will ask again-who are the Scots who will make better decisions for Scotland? Names please.
I have never body-swerved any sensible questions asked of me. What the members of the BPHB continually fail to grasp is that the majority of sane, educated Scots have to be convinced to want/vote for Independence. With some detail around what it could/would be like. In that respect, too many on here are not too different from the SNP Cult supporters who simply accept the Supreme Leader’s dictates.
If you are going to berate me for ‘personal insults’ it is probably best if you refrain from doing it yourself.
If there is an Alba candidate standing in my constituency at the next election, I will probably vote for them. Providing that the individual is personally worthy of my vote. It is not and should never be guaranteed.
It is very easy for the members of the BPHB, when faced with something/someone they disagree with, to trot out the tired old line-They are a Unionist/Tory/whatever. All this does is reveal their total lack of critical thinking.