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Wings Over Scotland

The Red Face Gang

Posted on November 29, 2013 by

We saw this graphic on the “Better Together” website yesterday, but we dismissed it as uninteresting even by their playground-propaganda standards, amounting as it does to nothing more than some startlingly feeble carping along the lines of “These are their forecasts, but we’ve made different forecasts so theirs must be wrong!”


But an alert reader observed that it was MUCH stupider than that. Can you spot why?

Give yourself full marks if you answered “Because the table is entitled ‘Estimates UNDER CURRENT CONSTITUTIONAL ARRANGEMENTS‘, of course”.

Yep, astonishing as it seems, the No campaign has based its attack on projections for a Scotland that’s still in the UK. It would, obviously, be in the SNP’s interests to make those figures look as bad as possible, so that the ones for independence would be good by comparison. Yet the blundering boffins in Blair McDougall’s crack “war room” have bungled spectacularly by mistaking the “Scotland in the UK” figures for the “independent Scotland” ones.

It’s not their only epic howler of recent times. A couple of weeks ago they put out a graphic of a new research centre at Dundee University, trumpeting how the “top 3 floors” had been funded by the UK government with just the “bottom 2 floors” paid for by the Scottish Government.


The whole enterprise was beset by a gigantic fundamental flaw anyway, but we were still a bit baffled when the graphic vanished from the “Better Together” Facebook page and Twitter feed within an hour, until we did a bit of research of our own and found the image they’d based the graphic on.


To save you clicking it to see the tiny text at the bottom, it reads “laboratories and associated office and meeting space over four storeys. Yes, the maths-checking geniuses of the “Better Together” war room had been outfoxed by a job of counting that didn’t even need both hands, never mind taking their shoes and socks off.

They tried to cover their tracks by hastily issuing a press release with the correct number of floors, audaciously titled “Red faces for Salmond and Swinney”, but by then alert Yes supporters had retrieved the original graphic and distributed it far and wide.


You’d need a heart of stone not to laugh yourself breathless.

But in all seriousness, the Scottish electorate deserves better than this. The official No campaign has a track record of arithmetical incompetence – let’s be generous and call it a long series of unfortunate errors, rather than the deliberate and systematic misinformation it more likely is – that’s as long as your arm, but none of it is ever picked up by the media, and so their clownish lies will inevitably be taken as truth by a proportion of people who don’t have the time to verify them.

Without an alert reader, today’s example might have slipped past even us. We’re only human, we have to sleep sometimes, and there are only so many hours in the day to check every last piece of bilge the BT Black Ops department belches out.


So keep ’em peeled, folks. And remember, undecided voters – any time you see any sort of statistic or figure in a “Better Together” graphic, blog post etc, the only safe approach is to assume it’s almost certainly a big fat lie until proven otherwise.

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93 to “The Red Face Gang”

  1. Ekindy says:

    Well looks like we see where a NO vote takes us now. Thanks BT.

  2. Ray says:

    A good example today when Gordon Aikman of Better Together quoted a Prof John Kay interview from yesterday (which was followed by retweets from the usual suspects as well as a blog by their main site) but of course slashed the quote and made it sound worse than it was for (guess who) Alex Salmond.

    They, again, of course, missed out all the bits in the interview by Prof Kay saying all the issues in the media regarding Scotland’s place in the EU would be “quickly” and “easily” sorted out by all involved, because it’s in everyone’s best interests.

    Same old shit.

  3. MajorBloodnok says:

    I think that’s Alistair Darling’s handwriting on the first one.  But that can’t be!  He must be good at sums, I mean he was once the …er… Chancellor of the Exchequer.  Oh.

  4. Dan Watt says:

    “None of Better Together were available for comment at the time of printing”
    Maybe you should try giving them a call every now and then, Stu 😀

  5. Tearlach says:

    Alert reader indeed – Full credit to Grave Scot Lodge from the Black Isle in picking this one up – shows what you can do when you crowdsource both cash and information.

  6. HulloHulot says:

    It’s the
    “F — Must try harder.”
    That really makes this so fucking wonderful.

  7. mogabee says:

    Man, just can’t get the staff these days…….

  8. HighlandMart says:

    Good spot that man Garve!

  9. Horacesaysyes says:

    Brilliant – we’ve now got them pointing out that they think things will be even worse than the Yes campaign’s view of how bad they would be after a no vote!
    Someone needs to ask Blair M about these figures at the next BT shin-dig he pops up at. 🙂

  10. cath says:

    How dare the stupid SNP not put “transition costs” in a forecast for not transintioning to anything. And basing a figure on being in the UK not independent when, er, that’s what it’s for.

  11. Simon says:

    “No budget is allocated here for transitional costs” – they clearly think it is an independence budget.

  12. Wayne says:

    I would just love to see Salmond or Sturgeon waving this in front of JL, Darling et al and thanking them for doing such a wonderful job on pointing out the benefits of remaining in the Union!
    They are so driven by fear, negativity, and looking for any opportunity to belittle the YES campaign that whatever intellectual capacities they have are subordinated and blinded by base rage…

  13. Simon says:

    Oops sorry Cath great minds and all that…

  14. Mary Bruce says:

    Brilliant, how long till they remove it from their facebook page?
    This has cheered me up no end (this and Humza Yousaf defeating Johan “debater of the Year” Lamont at St Paul’s High).  Hurrah!

  15. cath says:

    Was just going to say it’s still on their Facebook. Anyone who hasn’t been banned yet fancy going and letting them know?

  16. bannock hussler says:

    And that lady in blue on BTC’s QT last night just sweetly wanting facts. For the benefit of the 16-17 year olds. 
    It’ll be impossible to find out, I suppose, but I’ve been wondering what were the facts, or arguments, that the Nairn pupils were relying upon recently, when they decided to vote so emphatically No.

  17. You know the worst thing about all this misinformation is they are taking the Scottish public for clowns, and, they don’t care what so ever, whatever it takes, even if it means treating your own people like dumb, pathetic, retched, gullible, uneducated, backward idiots.
    Thankfully us Scots are much smarter than that and I’m sure we will show them next year the error of their ways. 🙂

  18. tartanfever says:

    Ok, which smart arse sent the comedy calculator to BT headquarters ?
    I think we’re all due you a drink.

  19. Taranaich says:

    I noticed that BT cite how the paper’s stats are different from the OBR’s, implying that SNP are ignoring them. Yet in the small print at the bottom the OBR is cited AS ONE OF THEIR SOURCES.

  20. gerry parker says:

    Buster – aye, they’ll sow the wind – and reap the whirlwind.  Roll on the day.

  21. Tim says:

    According to their twitter, they’re sending the same table out on the back of an envelope (literally) as a mail shot, without the silly “must try harder” marking crap and titled “SNP Economic Plans in Full”.

  22. Dcanmore says:

    .. and what rating did Alistair Darling get for his disastrous over-promoted stint at being Chancellor of the Exchequer, oh that’s right ‘F'(uck off Darling) you useless twat.

  23. Murray McCallum says:

    I am actually quite impressed at the amazingly stupid critical thought that has gone into that better together “SNP’s maths” graphic.
    I’m giving them an A* – can’t do better.

  24. beachthistle says:

    Just posted a comment pointing out the footshoot on the cringe-fest which is the BT facebook page (not recommended if you suffer from high blood pressure!). The comment has got quite a few likes already -will be interesting to see how long it is visible…
    “Has anybody noticed (because the ones who marked this homework didnt!) that the table is entitled ‘Estimates UNDER CURRENT CONSTITUTIONAL ARRANGEMENTS‘.These figures are projections for a Scotland that’s voted No and is still in the UK. Seems the bright sparks who did this have bungled spectacularly by mistaking the “Scotland in the UK” figures for the “independent Scotland” ones. F doesn’t even come close – unless it stands for ‘footshoot’!”

  25. Iain says:

    It’s a bit dangerous to use of Grade F without setting out the assessment criteria.
    When SLab launched the 10-14, followed by their 5-14, followed by their 3-18 ‘a policy for the Nineties’ to Scottish Schools, the gold standard of achievement was Level F.
    All pupils were expected to reach Level E by the end of P7 but Level F was designed for ‘very clever’ P7s or as somewhere to aim for in Secondary 1/2.  So educationally in Scotland Grade F was highly desirable.
    Although to be fair to them they also used Grade 1 as the highest Grade at end of S4 for Standard Grade, and changed it away from numbers all together with the highest level of achievement at Int2, Higher and Advanced Higher being A, although their A-C (and latterly A-D) grading system was also accompanied with a 1-6 (latterly 1-7) sub grading level.
    So maybe Grade F is bad, but maybe it’s good. With such a complicated system used for their education grading maybe it would be best to ask Alastair Darling which grading system his pals are using in this graphic.

  26. Jingly Jangly says:

    o/t Helicopter crash in Glasgow multiple casualties

  27. Jingly Jangly says:

    Chopper crashed into Clutha pub
    Reported to be the police helicopter

  28. Linda's back says:

    Worth reminding unionists of this
     “Brazen” MPs have given themselves an extra week’s holiday to campaign in the run up to the Scottish referendum contest and that they will only work for 145 days at Westminster next year.
    No wonder Westminster MPs are hostile to independence as they will be out of a job after independence and their cushy retirement part time job at £300 a day in House of Lords will no longer be available to augment their generous pension.
    Sunday Times reported that each Westminster MP costs the taxpayer £600,000 a year and the total cost of House of Commons and House of Lords comes to £480 million a year.

    So that’s another £40 million pounds a year we will save after independence.

  29. squarego says:

    This is hilarious. Are they actually posting these envelopes out? I hope I get one. I’ll have it framed and hung on my wall in my home in an Independent Scotland.

  30. clochoderic says:

     Helicopter crashed int Clutha bar in Glasgow!
     Check the news….

  31. Truth says:

    A helicopter has just crashed into the Clutha Vaults pub in Glasgow.
    I’m just off the phone to my brother who is in Glasgow city centre. There are 15 fire engines on scene. Apparently people trapped inside.
    No word of casualties as yet.
    Shocking 🙁

  32. beachthistle says:

    Facebook comment still there, starting to get some attention (9 likes) and follow up comments, e.g.
    “I give it 30 minutes before this picture is removed, 31 minutes till you’re blocked from this page Andy, and 32 minutes till I am lol.”
    The envelope sending out angle is hilarious, an added bonus. Very pleased that my  latest comment is juxtapositioned with their dismal “urgent product recall’ spoof posting, which I have pointed to those reading my comments:
    “I think they have envelopes printed with this same “UNDER CURRENT CONSTITUTIONAL ARRANGEMENTS” table on it – hopefully (and ironically, considering their dreadful ‘urgent product recall’ pastiche below) BT have already sent some out!”

  33. Garve says:

    I first tweeted about this last night, including @UK_Together in. They must know their error by now and have had the opportunity to correct their article.
    If Tim’s correct about this mailshot then it either means astonishing incompetence, or that they just don’t care whether what they publish makes any sense or not.

  34. Adam Davidson says:

    I thought the Better Together politicians had all said do course Scotland could do well on our own? They don’t seem very sure?

  35. clochoderic says:

    Can someone who is facebook savvy please link some pics or information about the Clutha news?

  36. Hetty says:

    Ok as things are looking pretty grim tonight in Glasgow, and normal posts may be understandably O/T. 
    I have a concern, I do not watch tv, ie non. This evening I was visiting my 93 year old friend who watches tv, and he seems to be spouting crap about Cameron saving the planet! Ie on foreign visits etc.
     I would have thought its his age but my right leaning ( to be polite) neighbour was this week praising said tory leader for socially beneficial visit to Africa. Are the masses being brainwashed? I mean, more than usual? Just interested and those with tv reception might have an inkling? 

  37. westie7 says:

    Someone care to clue me in as to why Murphy is the sound bite politician for the BeeB tonight

  38. clochoderic says:

    Andrew Kerr on the BBC has just twice said live on tv that the Clutha is in the south of Glasgow.

  39. TJenny says:

    Westie 7 – he saw the helicopter comng down and he’s been part of a human chain, formed by passers by who rushed to the scene to help evacute people through clouds of dust and he apparently has blood on him. We’ve also had the Scot Sun editor who was just leaving his office when the crash happened. We now have Andrew Kerr on BBC and Jamie McIvor too. All seem to be praising the quick response from Scottish Emergency sevices. And even Anas Sarwar is now being interviewed. (by phone)

  40. clochoderic says:

    Anas being given another  15 minutes of fame by the BBC.

  41. Jingly Jangly says:

    your out of order

  42. Truth says:

    I’m not sure it’s helpful to speculate on why certain people are being asked to comment. Now is not the time.
    If anything untoward is going on, the truth will out and the damage will be done that way.
    Remember project fear are looking for anything they can use against us.

  43. Early Ball says:

    Jim, to my knowledge has been on BBC, ITV, Sky News and Radio 5 and stated I think on at least two of them that he is shaken. I would hope that they phoned him after his tweet. I took it that he was passing saw the crowd and stopped and helped. Good for him. I am ashamed,  given his apparent lack of political integrity, that I did wonder who was making the phone calls. That says more about me I suppose.  Just hope the casualties are not as serious as it certainly looks.

  44. clochoderic says:

    Jingly Jangly, I am not the one out of order, it is the BBC.
     If you fail to appreciate that basic point then maybe you should scroll up to the point by TJenny – who makes the case more eloquently than me.

  45. clochoderic says:

    At one point in his telephone diatribe Anas seemed to suggest that thank fuck the chopper did not crash into a more expensive property than an auld fashioned glesga boozer full of fucking socialists.

  46. MochaChoca says:

    I think as the MP for Central Glasgow you’d fully expect Sarwar to be interviewed. Let’s not look for bias in a situation where none exists.

  47. kendomacaroonbar says:

    I don’t have a lot of time for Jim Murphy at the best of times, however I’ve just heard his emotional and genuinely concerned Sky News report after he witnessed the incident. I’ve changed my opinion of Murphy. Sarwar on the other hand came across as an inarticulate knob.

    My thoughts are with all those affected, and sincerely wish for miracles tonight.

  48. Jamie Arriere says:

    Murphy was passing seconds after the impact, and helped to get folk out. Nothing more to it than that.

  49. TJenny says:

    Elizabeth Ferris has tweeted that the reason there was now explosion or fire is because of this article
    To be fair Jim Murphy sounded in shock about it all as did the Scot Sun editor.  All praising the spirit of Glaswegians and Scots to rush to help as best they can.

  50. TJenny says:

    That should have read No explosion – not quick enough to edit 🙁

  51. Jamie Arriere says:

    At this precise moment, I’m thinking only about the chopper crew, their families and the shocked folk in the pub. I gently suggest you do the same.

  52. kendomacaroonbar says:

    @ Jamie
    I said I changed my opinion of him as a human being, NOT a Labour politician.. Anas on the otherhand spewed out mechanical soundbites IMO. and he is still a Knob.

  53. MochaChoca says:

    Tjenny, hope it was that system which prevented an explosion, my first thought was it could have run out of fuel (reason for it coming down and reason for no fire/explosion thereafter)

  54. The Man in the Jar says:

    Terrible news from Glasgow lets hope that casualties are low. Thankfully it looks like there are a lot of lucky survivors. 
    This seems very close to home as hardly a day passes without the same helicopter passing over my house on its way to the M74 / E. Kilbride expressway. I reckon that the helicopter was making an emergency landing.

  55. Truth says:

    Wow, I never knew of such technology. It looks like it may have saved many lives tonight. It doesn’t bear thinking about if this had turned into a fireball.
    As for the BBC, I have just witnessed a BBC journalist fishing for an interview on Esperanza’s (the band playing in the Clutha tonight) facebook page. I feel slightly sick.

  56. TJenny says:

    Truth – James Cook on BBC has just asked one of the Police Scotland guys on the scene if he could give him an update and was firmly told NO (in a can’t you see I’m busy tone) – you’ll get an update later.
    Apparently the rudders weren’t moving and it wasn’t making any sound before falling.

  57. Jingly Jangly says:

    Russian TV News reporting several fatalities and 10 injured

  58. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Search and Rescue dogs on the scene now

  59. clochoderic says:

    Jamie – that was my first thought – it does not look good as the situation emerges. My beef is with the prominence given to SLAB by the BBC right now – they are being given carte blanche to front up all the coverage.
     This is media manipulation.

  60. Taranaich says:

    With all the disillusionment I have about Labour, I’m really proud that Jim Murphy’s inherent humanity broke out. It makes me feel good that even someone who I disagree with profoundly, who supports policies I despise, can still show that basic desire to help others in need when in a fight-or-flight moment.

  61. clochoderic says:

    Somebody record the words of Andy Dickson at 01.42 on the bbc he is asking some hard questions.


  62. clochoderic says:

    Andrew Kerr talking utter shite on the BBC – does  someone pay this moron for the banalities he babbles so readily?
     Jim Murphy is a hero. of the rescue.
     Anas thanks fuck it did not drop on more expensive property.
    Glasgow Labour to the rescue of the errant socialists in the Clutha.
      BBC Scotland headlines.

  63. kendomacaroonbar says:

    With the greatest respect Clochoderic, I don’t really see it that way. IMHO, Murphy comes across as human, is sincere and genuine…. I honestly believe this, on the otherhand Sarwar comes across as a rookie politician overwhelmed by his opportunity to say the rights thing.. he thanked many of the services attending tonight, but never mentioned those affected.

    However in all fairness I guess tonight of all nights is neither the time nor place to play the politics henceforth mah geggy is shut.

  64. squarego says:

    Can we leave the points scoring for political debate? I’m just glad that there were people there willing to help and that this incident wasn’t worse, as it could well have been.

  65. Macart says:

    Should’ve gone to specsavers. 😀

  66. clochoderic says:

    I am making  political point, I am am pointing out the prominence given by the BBC to Anas Sarwar and Jim Murphy is deliberate and calculated. In contrast they have mentioned in passing that Salmond and Sturgeon have tweeted on this serious matter.

    Kendo you are obviously in the market to buy a bridge.

  67. kendomacaroonbar says:

    I am on the frontline the same as you…I just think tonight there is no target.I hoped you would have respected my opinion on that,however I’m kinda dissapointed about the the dig in the ribs as I proffered an honest opinion.

  68. Macart says:

    Just catching up on the news. Dear God what a tragedy.
    Thoughts go out to all those involved.

  69. clochoderic says:

    How obtuse does one need to be unaware of the BBC coverage tonight?
     Their waffle and lack of hard news is padded with tales of bravery by Murphy and pious platitudes by Sarwar, they have nobody asking any hard questions about why the fuck this happened.
    I really do not believe the BBC tonight.

  70. Macart says:

    Still unconfirmed on fatalities, but possibly three according to the Guardian.

    Nothing in the Herald as yet and no updates on numbers on the Record site.

    Apparently the people present formed a human chain to aid the injured and Mr Murphy by accounts to date did well.

  71. Macart says:

    Hopefully needless to say, my first post was based on the thread article.

  72. Seasick Dave says:

    There are more pictures and a report over on Russia Today although many of the comments are disgraceful.

  73. Famous15 says:

    Glad you clarified your specsaver remark was on the topic and not the terrible crash.One insensitive person was too much for me…time and place etc.

    my thoughts are with those who suffered and those who grieve. Jim Murphy and the other Glasgow passers by who selflessly rushed to help, I thank you!

  74. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    OT but
    Talking of the innumerate, illiterate, incompetent and unspeakably useless, Ana’s Sarwar is on Radio 2 News as The Glaswow MP for where the helicopter crashed.
    He had a brain fart of a statement trying to sound as though he knew what what the fuck he was talking about. Sound bites spliced together in a random fashion as though his real brain (Spad ) had read him a list of examples of things  to say in such a situation. Still, some Labour core voters would have thought it “statesmanlike”
    i just found it embarrassing.

    Wonder who would have been given the Andy Warhol moment if it had been an SNP local MP.

    Come to think of it, who is the local MSP? Fire, Polis and the NHS, the real heroes on the ground all fall under Hollyrood.

    BBC Londonshire showing how we are better controlled from London or woefully unaware about the democratic and administrative reality in Scotland?

  75. Ken500 says:

    Unionists have never been good at Maths. It’s the Darling way.

    They never mention the £12Billion going to the UK Treasury (unaccounted) including £4Billion in debt repayments, while Westminster borrows an spends what it likes in the rest of the UK. Scotland raises more and spends less (pro rata).

    The Scottish budget is totally affordable by different policies and spending allocation in Scotland.

    Total revenues raised in Scoland £57Billion+ (including £17Billion for Pensions/Benefits Total spending in Scotland £65Billion including £12Billion (unaccounted) going to Westminster, including £4Billion in debt repayments.

    Total taxes raised in the UK £572Billion. Total Gov spending in the UK £693Billion. A difference of £121Billion in the rest of the UK. Scotland more than pays it’s way. Westminster keeps the Scottish Budget under strict control, while over borrowing and over spending in the rest of the UK.

    The only reason people know what’s going on is because the SNP gov are in power in Holyrood, otherwise the UK gov would have been trying to conceal the figures. The UK gov says it cannot publish separate figures. Why?

    Scotland received the lowest CAP payment in the EU as part of the UK. The EU gave extra funds to Scotland, the UK Treasury has allocated the funding to the rest of the UK. Westminster wanted the CAP payments reduced and then took the extra funding allocated to Scotland to increase payments in the rest of the UK. Carmichael agreed with this policy.

    Scotland could have been in a better position in the Banking crash. Scotland had borrowed half as much (pro rata) than the rest of the UK. Historically UK Treasury has taken £Billions from Scotland. The BoE was not the lender of last resort. It did not have the reserves. China and the Saudi were the lender of last resort.

    The Unionists can’t count, that is why the UK has £1.2Trillion debt and unequal distribution of wealth.

  76. Ken500 says:

    Visitors to Glasgow were surprised to hear a Helicoptor close over head in the City Centre. They imagined a terrorist attack or similar. It was a Police helicopter monitoring an Old Firm game.

  77. castle hills chavie says:

    Very, Very O/T The BBC are celebrating St Andrews day,…….on cbeebies. Top class telly, don’t knock it.

  78. Ken500 says:

    It is the same helicopter type that has crashed in the North Sea, relatively new. Time for an Inquiry?. It is being resisted by the UK gov.

  79. Edward says:

    Just reading that Cameron has had discussions with Rajoy on how to explain ‘to citizens the consequences secession would have” – namely, independence for Scotland or Catalonia would result in their “automatic expulsion from the EU”.’
    The article in today’s Herald show how disgraceful Cameron is
    Cameron was the one who ran away from debating with Alex Salmond under the  pretext that he would not interfere

  80. Morag says:

    Anas thanks fuck it did not drop on more expensive property.
    Surely, surely not?
    It’s the most appalling tragedy the helicopter landed on a building packed with people.  In that area at that time in the evening, there was surely a good chance it might have hit something unoccupied.  Or even the road.  Or even a building strong enough to withstand the crash.
    It landed in about the worst place possible, and surely Anas can see that no matter how big an idiot he is.  Please tell me he didn’t say that.

  81. Macart says:

    @Famous 15
    Aye, I’d commented on the article and started to read the comments. Just shocked and didn’t want anyone to get the wrong end of the stick.
    Still glued to incoming reports.

  82. Macart says:

    Mr Cameron has nowhere to hide. I was agin it originally, but really he’s kind of in that hole and continuing to dig. Time to get his erse in front of the public view with the FM and hear what he has to say. The ploy of using Rajoy won’t wash, all he’ll achieve is getting one man’s personal view. If he’s going to approach anyone, it should be Brussels direct to ask for a ruling. But clearly the man has neither shame nor courage.

  83. john king says:

    Clochoderic says
    “Jim Murphy is deliberate and calculated. “

    Yup of course its calculated, in the way as a reporter you would calculate that someone actually witness to the event would have something of importance to say.

    in other words 
    wind your neck in your making us look like twats.

  84. Juteman says:

    When folk have just died, it should never be used as a political football. Ever.

  85. john king says:

    Clochoderic says
    “How obtuse does one need to be unaware of the BBC coverage tonight?”

    Jesus,and I thought I was paranoid,
     I would stop now if I were you. 

  86. Tattie-Bogle says:

    Jim Murphy was clearly in a state of shock.

  87. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “When folk have just died, it should never be used as a political football. Ever.”

    It’s not the case today, but what if they’ve died as the result of politics?

  88. Juteman says:

    When folk have just died as the result of a terrible accident, it should never be used as a political football. Ever.

  89. Midgehunter says:

    1. RESCUE is the absolute priority and nothing else. Anyone who mucks in and helps regardless of who they are – very well done.
    2. As for the political batsh*t squackers, listen and record what they say, we’ll soon have plenty of opportunities to nail these individuals and organisations and show them up for what they are. Let them first make idiots of themselves.
    RESCUE ….

  90. Juteman says:

    When folk have just died as the result of a terrible accident, it should never be used as a political football. Ever.
    Any recrimination should come later, if needed.
    Even better?

  91. john king says:

    Edward says
    “The article in today’s Herald show how disgraceful Cameron is
    Cameron was the one who ran away from debating with Alex Salmond under the  pretext that he would not interfere”
    If Edwina Currie’s remarks are to be believed it’s because debating with Salmond is beneath him but it would seem not beneath the dignity of the office of prime minister to deal with the political wing of the IRA

  92. John Lyons says:

    I’ve said all along all the forecasts from Better together are based on continuing to do what Britain does. Scotland needs to save money! They shout, How much does Trident cost? I reply….. We won’t waste money the way Britain does.
    Another of thier favourite arguments is we’re better off as part of something bigger and have more influence on the world stage. If that’s thier true desire, why aren’t they campaigning for Scotland to be ruled from Washington or Beijing? Being part of China would make us the biggest most influential country on the planet. (Not to mention get us into the space race!) so why aren’t they campaigning for that?

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