The other one’s got bells on
An alert reader drew our attention to a piece in the Telegraph on Monday.
Lordy, where to start?
Firstly, ARE there 500,000 undecided women? Most polls are putting the undecided figure at around 10-15% now, which would mean that of a 4m-strong electorate there’d be a MAXIMUM of 600,000 undecideds altogether, assuming a 100% turnout. At least 83% of undecideds being women seems a bit of a stretch.
We haven’t even the heart to mock the “25,000 activists” line again.
So that leaves us with contacting every household in Scotland “at least three times” between now and the referendum, which by our sums is 28 campaigning days away. Let’s crunch some numbers on that, shall we?
There are 2,372,780 households in Scotland, according to the last census in 2011. The number is increasing so it’s probably more now – let’s up it just a tiny bit to 2.4m to keep the figures neat.
For “at least three times”, let’s just say exactly three times, which gives us 7.2 million individual contacts. By far the quickest and most efficient way to contact people is by telephone, so for the sake of calculations let’s say all the contacts will be phone ones.
A mindbogglingly generous estimate of the highest number of phonebank operators “Better Together” could deploy at any one time would be 1,000. (In fact we’d be amazed if they could get a thousand people out at a time on ANYTHING, on the streets or on phones or both. The most they’ve ever been able to verifiably muster is a couple of hundred, with half of those being shipped in from Manchester or Newcastle.)
Which means each operator would have to make at least 7,200 phonecalls in 28 days. That’s just over 257 calls per person per day. In reality it’s far more, as lots of people will be out or engaged and you’ll have to try them more than once, but some will also be committed No voters who won’t take up much time, so let’s allow an average of a tight three minutes per voter.
That means every phonebank operator would have to work 13 hours a day, not including lunch or toilet breaks, seven days a week from now until September 18.
Except that most people aren’t in for 13 hours a day – they have to go to work, or college, or shopping, or whatever – so that’s a waste of time. Realistically your window for catching most people at home, assuming you don’t want to harass them at 11 o’clock at night, is more like three hours – say 7pm to 10pm.
257 calls a day in three hours takes the time per call down to 42 seconds, including dialling and ringing time – perhaps 30 seconds max of actual conversation. That’s barely enough time to introduce yourself and either find out the person is already a No voter or be told to go and take a running jump, let alone change a Don’t Know’s mind with compelling arguments about invasion from North Korea and whatnot.
But wait – as we see from the image above, BT’s phonebanks are only actually operating Mondays to Thursdays. So those 42 seconds plummet to 24, leaving the conversation time, optimistically, at 12 seconds per call.
“Hello, I’m from ‘Better Together No Surrender Thanks’ and I’m just ringing you up about the independence referendum. I have to go now, bye!”
We’re going to stop there before it gets any sillier. But bless them. It’s nice that they’ve still got the energy and imagination to make up completely laughable cobblers for the media to print unchallenged after all this time. We look forward to the next one.
It’s the million postal votes that worry me. At’s an affa lot.
Hahahahaha! Brilliant!
Stu, has your calculator got any buttons left working? It must be worn out by now.
Don’t worry, I’ve volunteered, its why I don’t have time to comment here.
I had a call last week, told them we were all undecided, was asked what the problem was and told them I couldn’t understand why anyone would want their own country to be ruled by another one.
Strangely they couldn’t provide me with an answer but hopefully they will call back to have a chat with the wife and daughter. They would love to tell them where to stick it????
Jim Murphy on Stv tonight. Get intae the walloper
all frightened animals try to make themselves look big when they feel threatened.
they are simply overwhelmed by the scale and composure of the yes campaign.
It’s the video The Torygraph made for NBUTKOKNOBT,from Shetland,that gets me.That and the “million” postal votes.
I would reckon there is no way any organisation can reach more than 50% of all households by phone unless they have illegally obtained mobile number lists.
The Better togethers don’t canvass up here in Western Isles. They don’t have an information Hub. They have a stall every Saturday for a couple of hours at the most. You may subtract the number of households in Western Isles from your calculations.
Could I boast a little and say that our canvass is over 60% Yes up here, in Barra it is over 70% for Yes.
If they phone me im saying NO
all the better come sept 18th
If they phone me (which they wont) I fully intend on keeping them on the blower for as long as possible. This should hopefully save some other poor person having to hear their nonsense.
Massive oil finds,NHS, Stiglitz,3 positive polls ffs get them on the back foot, get the big guns out NOW. Get the A team in the studio NOW.
Postal votes start soon, Get the finger out.
We’ve won, if I can’t get one undecided woman ( the wife ) to make up her mind 99% of the time what bloody chance do they think they have got with 500,000.
PS, she is voting YES, she’s not that undecided.
Keep them on the phone if they ring you.
NBUTKOKNOBT have not been anywhere near my street as yet… they better t’ get ter skates on if they still want to chat with me 3 of 4 times. 🙂
I’m waiting for my call … blunderbuss at the ready.
Good luck with the reception folk.
Trying to annoy folk never achieves very much.
They will probably get converted to YES
Obviously the MSM/No campaign made this is all up, just like almost everything they come out with. They make it up because essentially they are trying to protect their own interests and careers. Self preservation is their name of the game. What a self serving, duplicitous, mendacious lot they are. They have no positive case for the Union. Instead they are reduced to arguing on the currency question, and the old chestnut about the oil running out.
You’ll never run out of content for the 10pm comedy slot with this lot, Rev. Thanks for the laugh.
I hope they phone me, I’m really going to enjoy that!
Prize for the first person that converts one of the callers to a Yes?
Don’t want to blaw but one area is 80% YES
No one ever calls me 🙁 Clicked on link to BT site, their pleadings for volunteers made me sad very sad 🙁 then again most of the comments seem to be from YES supporters and that made me very happy 🙂
Ravelin… lol.
No one ever calls me 🙁 Clicked on link to BT Renfrewshire site, their pleadings for volunteers made me sad very sad 🙁 then again most of the comments seem to be from YES supporters and that made me very happy 🙂 If this comment appears twice I don’t know what went wrong but I get the ‘looks like a duplicate comment’ message
Do’h
They never write… They never call…
Oh I simply CANNOT WAIT for my call. One doesn’t like to blow one’s own trumpet but I reckon I could keep one on the line for at least a hour with my deeply confused, slightly no-leaning undecided act. We should offer a prize of some description to whoever keeps them on the phone the longest.
Okay–I’m going to go out a bit left field here and say, Rev., I think maybe you are missing the trick.
This will, of course, be all over the compliant media. Those, diligent, hard working, dedicated BT canvassers–working all hours of the day and night.
That’s how it woz won, they will proclaim on 19th September.
The opinion polls are also part of the strategy. Imagine, for example, if YES had been ahead in all or most of the polls that have been published by the unionist press–and then the result is NO.
Wait a minute…. something not right there… I smell a rat… steward’s inquiry…. I demand a recount, etc, etc. Where did THOSE boxes come from? There was 10 boxes from that ward, not 8.. etc, etc–you get the picture.
Imagine YES actually was ahead in most of these unionist opinion polls–and then the result was a No victory. Wouldn’t we all smell a rat? But, of course, if No are made to APPEAR as though they are winning then, when the final result comes in, and it’s a No win, few will bat an eye-lid.
“Well, that’s what the polls said. And it’s down to all those hard working BT telephoners in them call-centres phoning four people a minute what won it for them.”
I see this is all part of a script for when there is a No victory. And I see that No victory being achieved by whatever means the British State has to deploy to ensure it–and that includes boxes being substituted in vans between the polling station and the count, all being stuffed with No papers.
I know, I am way out there. But this is the British State we are taking on. They won’t go down without a dirty fight.
OMG wall to wall Murphy bbc and stv. Proud scotbut creep
They really do have numeracy problems! They never seem to get it right.
If you lie with words, you have the defence of opinion. If you lie with numbers, they need to add up.
I would pretend to be undecided so that they would have to phone me again (assuming on the minuscule chance that this is not all bullshit of course). In the unlikely event of getting a call I would urge all other Yessers to do the same, and BT would have to spunk up their own dirty cash against a wall.
Stewart fae Stoney
Don’t go there. YES is a positive message and we dont need underhand tactics. BT can quite comfortably supply their own idiots.
The Scottish Rock Band “Gun” has a song they wrote many years ago and listening to the lyrics I believe it was a foresight about what we are fighting for now, the song is “taking on the world” get it on youtube and listen to it
If I get a call, I’ll say I was a No but am erring to Yes. I’ll open WOS on my iPhone or iPad and use it to generate doubt after doubt about NO. But not let on that is my source. Bog them down for as long as I can be bothered.
funny how hecklers who argue against jim murphy are portrade as drunks
A million postal votes. Very very dodgy
Stewart, go to your bed.
Stewart fae stoney
False flag opps not the Yes way my friend.
I emailed them fishing for a fee (to expose this illegal BT practice) and to the lassie’s credit she said they BT Edinburgh did not pay canvassers.
I would say volunteer then try and convert or simply demoralise BT staff but the public will be doing that all the way up to September 18th!
Honestly, anyone who thinks their job is shite should try traipsing round Scotland telling people they should give up on making their country better – canny imagine it’s much fun.
When they phone you and identify themselves, just put them ON HOLD.. a bit like the way our beautiful Scotland has been for the past 300 odd years ~ The 18th Century!!
Scotland is willing to go into conference call mode, but alas, the Westminster communication is all one way traffic (similar to a salesperson not listening and trying to talk over the top of you).
Welcome to your 21st Century.. let’s hear it for your country, let’s hear it for Scotland! X
Naebody likes me cause Naebody calls, Naebody visits and Naebody polls.
I am the Anti-Nae, “project fear me”.
Pin says:
“A million postal votes. Very very dodgy”
While I do also worry about the potential to cheat with postal voting, I suspect they have got this number wrong, like every other figure they quote.
@Proud Cybernat
You are right. This is all part of the construction of an ersatz narrative which says that No was always ahead, enjoyed a huge advantage in resourcing etc.
For example, remember until recently BT/MSM were bleating about Yes having more money via the evil Weirs and others? That story was recently supplanted by the narrative that BT was ‘inundated’ by donations after the recent debate, to the extent that they had to ask them to stop.
Thus BT enjoy the greater finances, ‘majority’ support, and the ‘polls’ confirm this. If this narrative were to be constructed in Saddam’s Iraq ‘our’ media would be traducing it.
Jim Murphy on BBC.
Oh look, an advantageous crowd shot on Byres Road which looks impressive to some but was only a crowd jacking exercise, outside the Hillhead Underground, which I mentioned on a previous post.
Worrying for me is that, if I’m starting to think like them, what is my IQ down to now?
@Tam Jardine
Hey! Did you tell your manager you thought your job was shite before your sent him the Wee Blue Book?
Were you secretly hoping to be sacked and changed your mind after he became a Yes! 🙂
Joe, they certainly portrayed a sanitised version of a typical Jim Murphy soap box tirade…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJmWOLlI–E&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop
Like everything, what they say is nonsense. But they’ll spout new, different nonsense tomorrow hoping no ones noticed.
Ah’m wan ae yon postal votes, and I will tell you this!. Ah canny wait tae hear fae thum. They stull huvnae even hud a meeting oot here. Yes did and invited thum, but they never came. If they want tae waste thur time phonin’ me they better bliddy hurry up. Ma ballot paper’ll be here & back in nae time.
The No campaign have not darkened either our door or our telephone. Nobody I know or have been canvassing for RIC has been either. Nobody on the doorstep has mentioned being contacted though a few have noted the lack of it. RIC seem to be the most likely group most people will have knock on their doors. Several people noted we were the first to do so.
Lots have had quite a bit of literature but of course much of that has been delivered by the postman or woman.
BTW the house of Yessers we found today with Severin Carrel in tow took a set of Yes posters off us with glee and one was up in their window before we had finished talking and taken away yet another filled in voting registration form (there is till time).
I was out Tues night, this lunchtime, will be tomorrow lunctime (stall manning) and tomorrow evening canvassing before more canvassing at the weekend. At today’s lunchtime canvass we had 10 people out knocking doors en mass. Having to screen out the conversation next door for your one. Where is No? Nowhere.
Switched on Scotland2014 and could not believe that this was the bbc in the unbiased pre referendum period.
Honestly I really thought it was a better together ukok no surrender thanks party political broadcast. Murphy was allowed to spout forth unopposed for what seemed an eternity.
The only consolation is knowing that my fellow Scots see right through this travesty of the democratic process.
OT – stairheed rammy on BBC radio scotland V Blair jenkins right now.
I don’t have a phone. they won’t call on me personally, will they? I’ll no be in.
When they say ‘contact’ I bet we’re all just going to get another 3 leaflets through the door
@Proud Cybernat- the type of jiggery-pokery with ballot boxes that you’re talking about will be pretty well impossible, such is the securty surrounding the transport of the boxes. You can read about it here: http://aceproject.org/main/english/vc/vcc01.htm
It will be far easier to fiddle the postal ballots – just sign up a few dozen care homes full of confused old folk and hepfully fill in the ballots for them.
Why would they do phonecalls?
You’ve just shown how stupid that would be.
They’ll just send 7.2m leaflets out. That won’t take them long, lol.
Thepnr
What do you mean? I love my job! It beats calling people up and being told to GTF within the allocated 12 seconds. That hardly ever happens where I work.
Kudos to the well heeled that are getting behind this thing – they are people I have plenty of respect for.
O/T comments on this weekend if yer free mate
One of my blogs has gone ‘viral,’ – weird. No accounting for its choice unless people are choosing something relevant to the final days of the Referendum debate.
The Fantasy of British Democracy grousebeater
I’ve never had a call but glad to hear I’m not alone as I was beginning to think it was my after-shave. As for their numeracy skills, they’ve probably borrowed the Office for Bollocks and Rubbish’s computer, it never gets anything correct either, LOL.
Auld Rock
2,539,865 dwellings in Scotland as at 20th August 2014
http://www.saa.gov.uk/general_statistics.php?&REPORT_NAME=ct_band#report_list
Mrs Grimble
Good point. When I go to my maw’s care home tomorrow, I’m going to ask where her polling card is and if any arrangements have been made re. the other residents and voting.
OT Newsnet have a story about Blair McDougall and John Birt blocking a Scottish Six news programme because it would lead to Independence. Oh, and would be parochial.
http://tinyurl.com/p3tlzdt
I’m 54. NEVER, in my life, have I been asked how I will vote! I don’t expect things will change in the near future.
Aye whore Jim can pick his spot for a audence The Royal Mile,people gathered round thinking he was a Fringe act,an they wur they Furriners.
Why don’t Better Together stop blocking and deleting people on Facebook then we can all contact them instead and save them all the trouble?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204718207943133&set=a.2210154981449.2134776.1474714031&type=1&permPage=1
How those unionist politicians squeal and squirm when they realise their careers and jobs are at stake.
There is nothing more obnoxious than the politician who would lay down his country for his life.
new.livestream.com/accounts/6163639/events/3263360
I found this tonight. This is what I want from independence the Scottish imagination given it’s head. All different ideas coming forth what an exciting time we can have.
My thought for the day . After a YES ,an call me Dave is being difficult , just give Putin a phone > ” here cov , foo lang will it tak ye t collect some scrap oot o the Clyde ? We wint a good price noo ! An we’ll throw in some mackeral is weel ” Get it up ye DC , GO an Beaker ! N.B. I never said I’d give him the Ammo as well !
@Tam Jardine
Apologies for my mistake, oops. Just misread your post.
As for this weekend I am fully booked on Wings business, banners to deliver and conversations to be had regarding the election.
I think our free time is becoming more limited and we have to make as best use of it as we can. Looking forward though to the BIG Wings night out after the 18th.
We should volunteer, call DK’s and tell them crazy shit to freak them out, like their family members in England will be foreigners, they won’t have any money on the 19th Sept, they’ll never find a cure for cancer, the BBC wont let them see Doctor Who or Eastenders ever again, they’ll drive on the right hand side of the one road left in Scotland, all banks will leave Scotland and move to London 19th Sept, their pensions will be used by AlixSamin for golf fees at Trump Golf, wind turbines will cover the whole of Scotland and the noise will be louder than Severin Carrell shrieking rule Britannia ya bastards over and over, Glasgow university will be so angry it’ll lift off completely like in UP and float away, any Scot seen on the European mainland will be either shot or sold to the white slave trade, also, the forces of darkness will rise up and take over Australia because its very hot there and forces of darkness like surfing, barbies, tinnies and chicks in bikinis, then President Obama and the Pope and the prime minister of Sweden, Blair Macdougal and Flipper Darling will all say, we told you so. That should swing a few more suckers to No.
How can these numpties hope that anyone will think them credible?
@ Jim Murphy
Get this right up you and your Labour Friends of Israel, ya pseudo socialist.
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/worldwide-protest-israeli.html
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/new-research-iscotlands-eu-membership-is-not-in-real-doubt.1408564041
Ho hum !
BT/UKOK/No Thanks/UK Gov or whatever they are this week still haven’t managed to get that leaflet to me that we were all threatened with so they should be safe
Better Together obviously consider Royal Mail postal workers as Activists.
Anybody else freaked out by that soft, creepy tone Apartheid Jim adopted for BBC Scotland 2014’s Murphy political love-fest tonight? My wife says it will give right-thinking women everywhere the horrurs, ah hope she’s correct. 😉
Certainly gave me the horrurs…
Well I did say a couple of days ago that the people they need to speak to cannot afford land line phones and mostly use pay-as-you-go mobiles. Then there are people like me, I have hearing problems and voices on the phone are garbled. I have an Answer-Phone-FAX machine and sometimes it can be weeks before a family member can translate the recorded calls for me. My personal message gives my FAX number, my mobile number, (for texts), and an e-mail addy that I only check now and again.
So a couple of weeks ago I turned on the missed call function on my mobile and there were several calls waiting. None of them identified who they were, so they got deleted uncalled. Anyone who knows me texts me and identifies themselves. So how are the Nos going to contact me several times? You wouldn’t believe the number of calls I get after the answer phone tells the caller I cannot hear the phone and how to contact me. I mean, how bloody stupid can you get? I give my name and say I cannot hear phones. If you want to contact me use … and I give my FAX/TEXT data and an email address and the idiots still leave a message?
All I can say is the NO lot must live in a different World if they imagine everyone has a phone and can hear it.
@Proud Cybernat says:
I see this is all part of a script for when there is a No victory. And I see that No victory being achieved by whatever means the British State has to deploy to ensure it–and that includes boxes being substituted in vans between the polling station and the count, all being stuffed with No papers.
If anything, I see this as more of a script for when there’s a YES victory. I have no doubt that the UK government will try to cheat in the vote itself, but, when yes eventually wins, I’m also sure that they will try everything they can to weasel out of it “We had so much grassroots support, the polls were all in our favour, etc. etc. This Yes victory is very suspicious, so there must have been something shady going on. The referendum doesn’t count!”
I don’t pay the propaganda tax so don’t watch BBC or live broadcasts.
But I’m wondering why anyone would deliberately choose to watch The Jim Murphy Show.
Is this the same uneasy audience for Hitler’s Henchmen, Hitler’s Secret Bunker, Hitler’s Generals, Hitler’s Favourite Pyjamas etc?
My wife says it will give right-thinking women everywhere the horrurs,
It’s difficult to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.
Off topic call for help….
I am trying to find a link to the Alastair Darling election leaflet from 2010 where he warns about the Tories cutting hospitals in Scotland. I am positive I linked to it from Wings, but with so many threads, I can’t find my way back.
Can anyone assist?
@Joe Swan 11.02 on Murphy
Yeah, the shot of the Big Murph was on Byres Rd but the cutaway shot of a less than an attentive crowd with Yes regalia was actually taken from his ‘performance’ in Shawlands. Sneaky eh?
As for BTs Britathon, at least we won’t be getting nuisance calls trying to sell us new boilers, solar panels or conservatories for the next four weeks. New priorities, chaps!
Watched Murphy and Pat Kane on 2014. Thought Kane should have turned the tables by saying that it’s the UK that is non-pluralist and suspicious of other cultures: UKIP & BNP, elite schooling, anti-EU, class snobbery, stiff upper lips still fighting Jerry on the Yesterday channel etc.
The subtext of his ‘piece’ was that the independent movement is inherently intolerant, if not racist.
Listening to Jim Murphy speak sounds like a large dump of wet dough dropped onto concrete.
“It’s difficult to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.”
It’s impossible to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.
I hope you don’t mind me revising your statement slightly, Grouse Beater? 🙂
O/T – apologies.
There was an interesting discussion at the Edinburgh Book Festival this evening on maintaining democratic dialogue in the media – panel Iain Macwhirter, Niki Seth-Smith of opendemocracy.net and Stephen Khan of The Conversation, with Ruth Wishart chairing. There was widespread pessimism about the future of the Scottish print media and lots of references to Wings, Bella Caledonia and similar sites. These were widely praised for their diversity and innovation but there were doubts about their long-term financial future and ability to resource serious investigative journalism. All very-provoking.
The first contributor from the floor started by attacking Wings: its editor is a very bad man. He rather spoiled his point by going on say it was regrettable that the Sunday Herald had come out in favour of independence at a time when every other paper and broadcaster had maintained scrupulous neutrality. The rest of his comments were lost in incredulous laughter.
I think the US is lined up for another Iraq invasion.Cameron will be on his tailcoats.Time for Scotland to bail out!Its always sad when a hostage is murdered.But what’s really sad is the thousands being killed by Israelies armed by the US.Not a tear shed for these people whos lives are just as precious.Go to hell Obama.
“The subtext of his ‘piece’ was that the independent movement is inherently intolerant, if not racist.”
It’s always puzzled me how the celebration of the multi-cultural and diverse population, that Jim wrongly puts forward as a No Thanks strength, fits in with the insistence that everyone will become “foreigners” on a Yes vote. #cognitivedissonance
I hope they call me, I’m going to act like I have no clue about any of it and see how many clangers they can tell in 42 seconds.
Apologies – should read “all very thought-provoking”
I really wish i was in Scptland at the moment. i would absolutely love to infiltrate them and use their campaign against them to promote Yes.
@ Dennis Smith, not sure maintaining democratic dialogue in the media is right in the here and now. Maybe building one to start with as it feels like a media dark age for Scotland that will only getting darker with a No win.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9621-better-together-chief-linked-to-moves-to-block-scottish-focused-news-on-bbc
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/crime-courts/scotsman-business-editor-is-fined-for-stalking.25082825
The first contributor from the floor started by attacking Wings:
Scottish democracy – it’s got wings on it.
Jim Murphy’s ill-conceived ‘100 Towns/100 Days’ Roadshow will, fifty years hence, be the subject of derisory folk songs. His name will be immortalised. (Just not quite how he hoped it would be…)
Plus all it would take would be one of their activists to go rogue and promote yes for the entire campaign leadership to have a complete nervous breakdown and lose trust in all of its activists
Well, nobody’s ever polled me and I’m 100% Yes.
I wonder what the high heid yins think they’re going to get out of this. What, am I supposed to vote No so that Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown can get seats in the Lords and see out the rest of their days in ermined decrepitude?
Vote Yes on September 18 and deny the buggers their mangy prize.
I had a giggle at Rhona on Scotland Tonight, “We had Mr Salmond on and had hope to have Mr Darling on tonight but were told he was not available”. I had a wee mental picture of Darling dressed as Greata Garbo saying in a huskey voice, “I vant to be alone”.
A young-English-educated-sounding lass rang me on Monday, asked for my partner by name and when I told the lass she wisnae at home, can I take a message, she asked if I was me – again by name – and said she was calling from Better Together.
I confess I lost my composure. I challenged her, asked if she was being paid, she said no, I said where are you, she said Galashiels. At this point, in hindsight, I could have asked some local knowledge questions. She mentioned solidarity, I told her she was asking for a suicide pact. I mentioned the WBB – she had never heard of it…
Mirksome.
@Stewart Black
“It’s difficult to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.”
“It’s impossible to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.”
There isn’t any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.
Fixed that for you.
MP Jim Murphy’s Labour Party, as well as being to the right of the Tories on welfare policy, is to the right of the Tories on immigration policy. So much for Labour’s international socialism –
Labour outflanks the Tories on immigrant benefits
New Statesman
03 Aug 2014
In your extract it doesn’t say they are going to call us. Just contact. In marketing speak that could be contact by post.
Contact 1 – already sent ma postal voting card
Contact 2 – will be sending me a postal voting pack
Contact 3 – …… An automated recorded call, automatic dialling? Could be done from overseas
Easy – 3 contacts have been achieved
That Jim Murphy gies me the heebie jeebies so he does.
thoughtsofascot… if you were here, you would truely understand that we are so thankful that the YES campaign is the exact polar opposite of the sinister ‘infiltrating’ dirty politics of the establishment NO campaign, perfectly reflecting of course, the aspirations of a better Scotland.
@ Patrician: Ocht, I don’t think it needed fixing, my friend. 🙂
“It’s impossible to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.”
Coz there urny any!
I recently went back to my home town for a wee break and an annual pilgrimage to see family. There is a YES presence about the place, some saltire flags, stickers in windows but overall low key. However there is a sizeable YES shop in the heart of the town which doubles as a meeting place for canvassers (it’s pretty big). There is no Better Together/No Thanks equivalent, zero, zilch. The local Labour MP doesn’t even have a NO Thanks poster in his constituency office window.
Recently there was a visit by Tommy Sheridan and Alan Bisset which had a massive turnout at the local theatre, next up it’s Jim Sillars in a couple of weeks. There is no pro-union gathering taking place anytime soon. The town has around 12,000 population and I spoke to some YES volunteers at the shop who reported they were optimistic, the locals are very quiet (typical though, same as just before 1997 Parly vote) and the only dissenting voices they’ve come across have been from rather unhinged incoherent individuals that support a certain football club.
Upshot is that Better Together have no presence in the area and have to rely on the media and the Royal Mail in making their case for them. On the local newspaper Facebook page where many locals comment on issues there are some No Thanks twibbons but they are far outnumbered by Yessers.
When the Better Together No Surrender Thanks mob start going on about solidarity just remember they are threatening to attack and damage the interests of working class people in an independent Scotland because they dared to vote in a fair and free referendum for the future system of government of their choice.
That’s how much they care about international socialism and how much they care about democracy which they are more than willing to use intimidation and threats against in order to get their way.
if the B Together or whatever they are called this week are going to call all Scottish house holders 3 or 4 times who I was wondering is going to pay for the cost of the calls will it b a freebie fae B T british telecom
@Matt Seattle
I think you handled that well…considering. 🙂
Actually, thinking of it, there must be a doctoral thesis here for someone, investigating how this bunch of wimps, pimps, comic singers, banjo players, and Jackie Baillie, ever attracted the vote of anyone whomsoever? Bonkers.
Stairheid Rammy, Lamont, the Murph, et al, a more sleazily unattractive bunch would be hard to imagine. *shudders*
https://www.youdecide2014.uk/
Who pays for this? A lot of Bettertogether facebook ads and this is a new one selling a facebook Q&A with Danny Alexander live tomorrow, all usual stuff, Scotland gets given 10% more UKOK spending etc.
Meanwhile over on labourhame Tom Harris breaks their year long new ebargo to defend Margaret Thatcher! https://archive.today/UbaFV
Do you think they know what they are doing? Do the Labour party not understand that whatever the outcome they are finished in Scotland? You can’t defend the tories in the referendum and then attack them in the General Election. Not all of the public have the memories of goldfish.
Jim Murphy the big smoothy. I was hit with the vomiting bug!
Curran and the BBC? I lost count of how many lies she tells per minute.
Robert Peffers @12.03
Or maybe Alistair was over at Yvonne’s for a ‘wee perty’ to celebrate the Bears humping Clyde?
@Patrician says: 21 August, 2014 at 12:05 am:
“It’s difficult to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.”
“It’s impossible to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.”
Well don’t try to do it then.
Remember the, “Doctor! Doctor!”, joke.
Woman: Doctor! Doctor every time I this with my arm it hurts.
Doctor: Well, Mrs, Don’t do it then. Next!
UK dividend for Scots £1400 a year! https://www.youdecide2014.uk/
They really have no scruples when it comes to keeping a grip of Scotland.
Deep, gravelly, sensuous trailer voice:
He thought he could tame a nation, he thought it would take only a 100 days and a soap box, he thought Brown, Darling, Lamont and Baillie his invincible buddies. Jim Murphy knew what he had to do to be a man but tragedy called – he couldn’t make it interesting.
The Expendables – in a cinema near you – now.
@heedtracker says: 21 August, 2014 at 12:23 am:
“UK dividend for Scots £1400 a year! https://www.youdecide2014.uk/
They really have no scruples when it comes to keeping a grip of Scotland.
They really need a refresher course in both logic and arithmetic.
They devolved us more powers and that £1400 per head is ALL they are allowing as funding for all those devolved functions that used to be paid for by Westminster. By my calculations they are selling us a long way short
Here is MP Anne Begg who is standing shoulder to shoulder in solidarity with IDS and Esther McVey in the Better Together campaign –
What does a yes or no vote mean for disabled people in Scotland?
19 Aug 2014
ps
In case you missed it, Anne’s Better Together comrades in charge of the DWP are under investigation by the UN for human rights abuses against disabled people. This is the first ever investigation of its kind and we only know of its existence because of a public slip up. It seems Labour will stand together with anyone in public, no matter how vile their views, just as long as they support the Westminster gravy train –
UK ‘is first country to face UN inquiry into disability rights violations’
Disability News Service
15 Aug 2014
Hmmm…
http://www.cityam.com/1408563019/how-independent-scotland-can-keep-pound-and-have-more-stable-banks
If they decide to phone me, I will keep asking the question “If I vote no, will I still be able to use the pound?” This will be asked every two or three minutes, in between other questions such as blood transfusions, organ donations, piano donations, electric keyboard donations, oil fields, grass fields, embassies, benson & hedges, trident replacement, garden forks, etc.
We’ve been sick having to repeat it over and over that an independent Scotland will be using the pound, and sick having to debunk their misinformation, so turning the tables on them is bound to annoy them.
I posted this on the FB thread, but posting here as well in the hope of some guidance/assistance.
So, the gung-ho and sarcasm thing is great and all that, but here’s what I’m hearing from the undecided (mainly) women I’m chatting to: Uncertainty (so I explain how that cuts both ways); Salmond/SNP (so I explain how it’s not about that/him/them etc); fear of change/happy as things are, so I talk about foodbanks and NHS and education … and I hit the brick wall that says, yeah, but I’ve worked hard, my family has worked hard, we’re doing well and I don’t want to risk that for anything that’s unguaranteed.
So, I keep trying, calmly, to get the message across. But I know I’m failing.
So, without sarcasm and calling people idiots, any helpful suggestions?
I have, obviously, touted The Wee Blue Book, I’m doing my own blog, I’m refusing to get into the name calling stuff. I always come clean on sources – never pretend anything is from an independent source if it isn’t. What else can I do?
(Incidentally, current tally of undecideds/nos to yes stands at 10, so I’m doing my bit here – I just need help)
Another point worth mentioning, I put a Yes sticker on the car last Thursday, and added a second sticker on Monday. Since then, for the first time in 16 years of car ownership, my car has been damaged, with the aerial ripped off. Coincidence? Methinks not.
Soooo looking forward to that call. Or maybe it’ll be a visit from one of their 25K activists (chuckle). If I set my stall out right I could keep one of them confused for hours. 😀
“Hello, I’m from ‘Better Together No Surrender Thanks’ and I’m just ringing you up about the independence referendum. I have to go now, bye!”
Thanks for that! Best laugh of the day (week?).
Laughing again just copying it…
Car stickers? I just put big white Yes decals on bonnet, tailgate and both driver and passenger doors of my dark blue car. I have photos to prove it. It looks fantastic.
I hope it doesn’t get damaged but it has a number of scratches already and I’m prepared to get everything seen to as a job lot after the referendum.
Meanwhile, on planet Earth, tonight’s canvassing in Aberdeen had around a dozen of us real-life campaigners chapping doors on a bit of a wet evening. My ninth session in 14 days, and I think I’m right in saying that every single one of them has had more Yes than No.
I don’t know where all these No voters are hiding, but it’s not in Aberdeen.
Doug, sweetheart, it’s very pleasant in the Borders at this time of year, and this leafleter who got shingles last week (cause, tired and stressed) needs all the help she can get.
@Betsy
“We should offer a prize of some description to whoever keeps them on the phone the longest.”
A year’s supply of ice cream?
Free drinks at the independence day celebration?
A date with Paula Rose?
O/T
If anyone fancies some zany comedy relief, check out Referendum TV on YouTube for 20/8/14.
The Rev Stu’s very own Twitter stalker – Duncan Hothersall – is on near the end giving it big licks for No.
I’ll give credit to the guy & say that at least he had the balls to go before a hostile audience. But it was still one vacuous utterance after another : “what it’s all about for me is cooperating together, working together, being stronger together….”
And his t-shirt is a complete disaster. Everything about Duncan cries out ‘look at me!’. He’ll go far in the modern Labour Party.
According to Crick ‘the derogatory rhyming slang’ on C4 news BT/No wanks mob sorry my enforced dyslexia are going to contact every houshold in Scotland 3 times. Seems a bit Dickensian like Joseph Marley. Looking forward to it don’t know how to kick it off, sold out socialists, tory apologists, protectors of WM sleaze and scandal, banging the drum for the orange order, peado parliament. Such diversity within their campaign.
O/T but relevant
The 21st Century Nuclear Arsenal – A Report by the American Security Project
The policy of the United States is clear. The, “Nuclear Weapons Umbrella” maintained by the USA, serves not only to deter attack on the USA, but also to protect their allies’ security. The deterrent covers NATO, Japan, the Republic of Korea, and Australia.
Rethinking and Reshaping the American Nuclear Deterrent and its Forces for the 21st Century
1. Nuclear weapons have been a bulwark of the U.S. national security strategy for nearly seven decades. The
thinking surrounding the employment of these weapons is nearly as old. The international system has changed
greatly since that time, and consequently, America’s nuclear strategy must change to adapt to this new system
or risk fading into ineffectiveness and irrelevancy.
2. Massive arsenals of politically unusable weapons simply no longer fit the deterrent needs of the United
States — and the size of the U.S. arsenal is an irrelevant factor in deterring proliferation. Therefore, U.S.
national security is better served by diverting resources toward strategies, weapons, and equipment that are
designed to address the challenges it faces today.
3. To move toward a new effective strategy, the U.S. should develop a three-tiered strategy for deterrence; reduce
the size of its nuclear arsenal; reanalyze and better coordinate its counter-proliferation efforts; and ratify the
Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. Lawmakers and the media should address these issues with the breadth and
seriousness they deserve.
Summary; Major change is beyond the talking stage. The USA nuclear arsenal is to be much reduced. The cost of maintaining it is prohibitive. Nuclear weapons require a nations available finance to be diverted away from conventional forces, (witness the massive reductions in the UK armed forces in the last year or so). The USA will increase their conventional forces, finance being diverted away from nuclear weapons that will never be used.
http://www.americansecurityproject.org/the-21st-century-nuclear-arsenal/
The issue i have with nukes is that even if all nations agreed to Scrap them, that sounds great and good, but how do you scrap the knowledge and ability to produce them at a later date?
In a twisted way, you could argue that if the uk scrapped nukes they would embark on a massive build up of conventional weapons which would then be sent on missions to actually kill people, rather than a ‘threat’ to kill that nobody believes.
Scrapping nukes is fine as long as the savings are used for good purposes as the SG states the savings would be.
Can anyone say the same of the WM government ?
That is the Trident argument in a nutshell for me.
And Finally, a bit late but Colleta’s telling some truths.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28869991
From StevieMcB link above..
…
“pro-Union campaigners have pressed First Minister Alex Salmond to set out a “Plan B”, such as joining the euro or using sterling without the Bank of England as lender of last resort”.
……………
Did AS not dismiss the Euro as an option about a dozen times during and since the tv ‘debate’ with flipper mc blinky ?
….heavy nasal breathing….hullo….heavy nasal breathing…I’m from Better….Together…heavy nasal breathing….things are gonna get…VERY scary….heavy nasal breathing….silence……………BOO!
Yep, 12secs seems about right.
@Brian Mchugh
You make it sound like its such a terribly devious idea. Think about it though. You wouldn’t even have to lie and use it to spread the Yes message. You could just tell people on the phone some of the more ridiculous scare stories the no camp have produced, which are sure to offend. It’s hardly a dirty tactic if you are merely reminding people of the Bitters past statements that they’d like to forget these days.
As an East Renfrewshire constituent I want a face to face with Skeletor aka J Murphy ,sans ginger crate :).
Having caller display weeds out all the ‘undesirables’.
Grouse Beater says
“I’m waiting for my call … blunderbuss at the ready.”
And I’ve got my ear trumpet,
what? what?
Ravelin says
“Prize for the first person that converts one of the callers to a Yes?”
I’m afraid if they get my wife she’ll convert them into a gibbering wreck,
just look at me. 🙁
Brian McHugh says
“They never write… They never call…”
What?
like this you mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3oUkiOezZA
O/T
Moves afoot,
BBC weather report @5.55 this morning
weather girl announces (pointedly) the weather report for NI, England, and wales, no mention made of Scotland, hmmm getting their retaliation in first methinks.
Grouse Beater says
“There is nothing more obnoxious than the politician who would lay down his country for his life.”
Stolen!
Tackity Beets says (worth repeating)
My thought for the day . After a YES ,an call me Dave is being difficult , just give Putin a phone > ” here cov , foo lang will it tak ye t collect some scrap oot o the Clyde ? We wint a good price noo ! An we’ll throw in some mackeral is weel ” Get it up ye DC , GO an Beaker ! N.B. I never said I’d give him the Ammo as well !”
EH?
like this you mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2p-SVuUaYs
Heedtracker says
“We should volunteer, call DK’s and tell them crazy shit to freak them out, ”
Im not getting your reasoning here Heedtracker?
so you would volunteer to read the BT script word for word, why?
Ephemeral Deception says
“Better Together obviously consider Royal Mail postal workers as Activists”
Haven’t met my postie have you?
active? not so much!
JBS says
“Well, nobody’s ever polled me and I’m 100% Yes.”
Why do you think they only have 6 activists, theres no point in talking to people who are already committed to the opposite cause! 🙂
Stuart Black says
“It’s impossible to think of any Scottish Labour politician who is charismatic.”
Ha, you didnt see Mags Curran on yewchoobs video!
grrrrr, now I know how heedtracker feels about his Slovenian Girlfreind.
Geoff Huijer says
““Hello, I’m from ‘Better Together No Surrender Thanks’ and I’m just ringing you up about the independence referendum. I have to go now, bye!”
Too long
“HelloI’mfrombetterTogetherNoSurrenderThanksandI’mjustringingyouupabouttheindependencereferendumIhavetogonowbye!”
there, thats shaved another three seconds off that call! 🙂
I met the local area organiser for better together? no thanks! last night. we normally get on quite well and if it wasnt for his politics we might even have been friends so I asked him hey where is my promised phone calls you bying lastard(as you do). Ah yes they will be coming its just a question of getting the troops together to do it ah said I so your bringing in the military ? no they are all civvies and they are all eager to save the union. So there you are! we are going to have 20,000 orange men marching through Edinburgh drumming away , blowing their flutes and pressing speed dial on their mobiles. used to think that Paul merton could come away with some obscure lines in comedy but the older I get and the more outragous the claims of better together get the more i feel … well you know
First Report of the Deep Cuts Commission – Preparing for Deep Cuts: Options for Enhancing Euro-Atlantic and International Security – April 2014
http://www.deepcuts.org/files/pdf/First_Report_of_the_Deep_Cuts_Commission_English.pdf
1. Four years ago, the United States and the Russian Federation concluded the New START Treaty. Even after New START, however, both nations will still possess nuclear arsenals that far exceed reasonable deterrence requirements. Both continue to rely on nuclear weapons employment strategies that are based on traditional Cold War planning assumptions, with hundreds of nuclear arms assigned to targets in each other’s territory and available for prompt launch.
2. Achieving further nuclear reductions could enhance national, Euro-Atlantic, and international security to the benefit of all states. This first report by the trilateral German-Russian-U.S. Deep Cuts Commission examines a number of obstacles impeding progress and it offers practical options that would enable the key parties to make headway. While the current environment does not promise an early breakthrough on further nuclear reductions, this report recommends that all sides should pursue a more energetic dialogue and explore a range of options to overcome and resolve key obstacles.
3. Even before Washington and Moscow agree to begin formal negotiations on a New START follow-on agreement, measures can be taken to achieve further strategic reductions within the current treaty framework. One option is for the United States to accelerate the pace of planned reductions so that nuclear force levels reach or fall below the New START limits ahead of the 2018 implementation deadline for the Treaty.
4. This measure could be accomplished through executive action by the U.S. President. Russia is already below two of the three numerical limits in the Treaty. The United States could also commit itself to continue reducing below New START limits toward the levels of Russian forces, which would be consistent with the results of the Nuclear Posture Review conducted by the Obama administration. Such reductions could improve the political landscape.
The Role of the USA & Russia
1. Russia and the United States should initiate talks on a New START follow-on agreement mandating additional significant and stabilizing cuts — for example, establishing limits of 500 deployed strategic delivery vehicles and 1,000 deployed strategic warheads for each side.
2. In order to enhance prospects for achieving a follow-on agreement, the United States should accelerate New START-mandated reductions ahead of the 2018 implementation deadline; the United States and Russia could consider further independent, reciprocal force reductions below New START ceilings.
3. Russia and the United States should reinvigorate bilateral strategic stability talks with the goal of pursuing confidence-building initiatives that help to address concerns relating to missile defense, tactical nuclear weapons, conventional precision-guided weapons, and outer space weapons. They should at the same time engage other nuclear-weapon states and encourage them to improve transparency and eventually to freeze or reduce their arsenals, using any useful precedents from the U.S.-Russian experience.
The Role of Germany
1. Germany has a role in addressing European security issues. It is a responsible NATO ally and participates in the alliance’s nuclear sharing arrangement. Through these arrangements, Berlin is involved in discussions on the future of U.S. nuclear weapons in Europe and the planned deployment of missile defense systems by NATO.
2. Germany is a reliable long-term cooperation partner of Russia and its second largest trading partner. Germany is also a champion of cooperative arms control in Europe.
3. The future of the OSCE and the CFE Treaty are important vertices of German foreign and security policy. Berlin has always been interested in a cooperative U.S.-Russian relationship. The benefits of cooperation have helped Germany, together with its allies and partners, to shape a peaceful Europe.
4. Germany has emerged as a vocal proponent of international disarmament. Under the frame-work of the Non-Proliferation and Disarmament Initiative—a group of 12 middle powers—Berlin advances policies and concepts for multilateral nuclear disarmament and non-proliferation.
Addressing Tactical Nuclear Weapons
1. The United States and Russia should reconfirm their mutual commitment to the 1991 and 1992 PNIs, undertaking confidence-building measures such as exchanging data on the total number of nuclear warheads destroyed over the past twenty years, and conducting site visits to former but now empty storage facilities.
2. The United States and Russia should resume the U.S.-Russian dialogue of nuclear experts in order to develop non-intrusive measures to provide for verifiable and irreversible elimination of nuclear weapons. Germany should take the lead within NATO to formulate a coherent NATO policy on the role of TNWs in Europe and terms for their withdrawal.
3. The CAI provides for a system of air-space monitoring between Norway and Russia, Poland and Russia, and between Turkey and Russia and concurrently connects (through data transmission) two coordination centers (one in Warsaw and one in Moscow) with data collection units. The CAI’s mandate and facilities could be expanded to include the BMD function as well.
4. In addition, the parties Russia and the United States should intensify efforts to make their BMD capabilities more transparent, considering the options of data exchanges on certain technical criteria and joint annual exercises on the tactical and theater BMD level. NATO should make more explicit the connection between Iran’s nuclear and missile threats and the pace and scope of NATO’s EPAA deployments.
5. NATO and Russia should initiate discussions about long-term options for a joint NATO-Russian BMD study center and/or a center for NATO-Russian surveillance and monitoring of missile threats and space objects, possibly building on the NATO-Russia Cooperative Air-space Initiative
You’re too useless to run your own country.Vote NO.
In the unlikely event that BitterTogether/UKOK/NoThanks )or whatever they are calling themselves this week) call me, I plan to keep them on the phone for as long as possible, thus reducing the time they have to call others.
twas alic sammin wot done it gov . never gets old that one
Its easy to rip the piss out off the Jim Murphy soap box rants, especially when the average crowd seems to be a few passers-by and their dogs.
But that’s not the point.
Its all about the media attention. The photo spreads and articles in local newspapers of the politician in town, doing the old fashioned campaigning.
Of course it probably helps that they are pro-NO owned, just looking for an excuse to print some propaganda under the guise of local news.
@Doug Daniel
Elderly women living alone are far more likely to be No in my experience chapping doors. It is certainly not absolute but unless they are lying No seems to have a majority of single elderly women. I’m not sure they form a sufficient constituency for an overall majority though.
One did completely decline to answer, telling us her vote was a secret between her and the returning officer. We said we understood completely and thanked her for her time. In every other election if anyone had asked me which party/person I was voting for I would have told them the same. I similarly refuse to co-operate with people who lurk outside polling places with clipboards.
Oh good grief!
http://www.spectator.co.uk/arts/arts-feature/9292112/salmond-has-already-lost-if-the-edinburgh-festival-is-anything-to-go-by/
Perhaps its being outsourced tae furriners?
How are Better Together going to phone voters without a landline, do they have everyone’s mobile phone numbers?
Like thousands of other people, I got rid of my landline phone, in fact this is a good time to remind others they are better off without a landline.
I found I was paying a fortune every year on line rental alone, I hardly used the landline, so I got rid of it, along with a monthly bill that was getting more expensive.
In times of financial difficulties, a landline bill is a luxury you can do without.
So thanks Better Together for reminding me to put up this plea for more people to cancel there landline and cut the profits of British Telecom.
Give yourself that feel good factor, and
CANCEL YOUR LANDLINE TODAY!
Difficult to choose – keep the BTNT chatting or complain about nuisance call as unlisted tel number? Both I think!
How do I give them my number. Oh please let them call me. Please. What fun I could have.
The bit about 1,000,000 postal votes worries me
Muscleguy – aye, it’s reached the point where I get a bit of a surprise if a single elderly woman isn’t a No. Usually with the reasoning “why can’t things just stay as they are? Why do we have to separate?” But thankfully, there’s also some that say “oh aye, I’ve been waiting for this all my life”.
If someone says they don’t want to say, I usually take that to mean they’re a No. Although there are some who genuinely just think it’s nobody’s business but theirs.
Morag – I would volunteer to help, but it’s a bit of a trek from Aberdeen to the Borders!
Interesting slant on indy currency.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/21/scottish-independence-pound-thinktank-thrive-currency
Just remember that ‘up to a million’ clearly includes the number 0.
Had five no thanks campaigners in my area last night. One was Jackie baillie’s personal assistant, the others were three English women and a German man, and the latter admitted they had been bussed up from England even though the women denied denied denied. None of them could say where they lived though.
BBC Scotland in conjunction Better Together have managed to take the future of the Scottish NHS off the agenda.
We are all falling for this con trick. This morning they are talking again about the currency and oil.
They have achieved their goal.
Get the future of the Scottish NHS back onto the headlines.
Blair McDougall has already emailed me on the address I use specifically for spam, though how he managed to get hold of it is anyone’s guess.
Will he be calling up my ex-directory number…
NHS privatisation…
http://www.buzzfeed.com/anotherangryvoice/12-things-you-should-know-about-the-tories-and-the-wyf2
I’ll tell them I’m undecided, let them waffle their pooling & sharing, best of both worlds, honk for hours, let them keep on ringing for days and days. Tell me more about best of both worlds.
Horrible thought but just thinking, what if BT were mobilising all activists from all unionist parties from all across the UK, even paying them to make calls from their own homes…..might get closer to 10,000 operators that way! It would be totally underhand and undemocratic….just what you’d expect from BT.
I hope some of you caught the discussion with Stewart Hosie and Iain Grey after eight this morning on GMS
It was comedy gold, with Grey coming out with gems, that were that bad, you could (due to the wonder of digital) hear Stewart Hosie exasperation coming over clear (there might have been some other sounds off from others in the studio)
Grey waffling the tired Better Together mantra on Scotland being like Panama, he even threw in a couple of other central American countries for good measure.
Grey also came out with the line that Scottish Banks would be keeping their money in a small wooden box as they did in the 17th century (I think he was getting confused with the Darien project).
Hopefully Labour will continue to wheel out Grey and to think he is their Shadow Finance person, god help Scotland if this idiot gets back into government as it really will be no laughing matter, so another reason to vote YES
The first poster had it, but I’ll say it again. It’s the claim of 1 million postal voters that worries me. I hope the Scottish Government has contingency plans in place to prevent fraud. If it doesn’t, that’s a serious dereliction of duty. I wrote to SNP headquarters on this issue about a year ago and got a mingbogglingly stupid response from some civil servant in the SG going on about the Edinburgh Agreement and the Electoral Commission. I was not reassured then, and I’m not reassured now.
The No campaign’s strategy has always been uncomplicated: if an argument fails to win support throw in the opposite case to cause confusion and uncertainty in the public mind.
So, when one practicing medical expert says Scotland’s NHS is under threat, the No Campaign get their own ‘expert,’ in this case retired, to say the opposite, leaving the public to wonder who is telling the truth.
In the end deliberate obfuscation wins the day.
PS: Could somebody please tell Dr Anna Gregor, ‘leading clinician’ – we would not expect her to be a nonentity – that it is very sad a career spent working in Scotland’s NHS leaves her ignorant of how it is funded and run.
PPS: She speaks as if from pages of the ludicrous Albiesalba.
and the cost of said phone calls , Is there any proof that the £m’s they have in the coffers and the money allowed to be spent is not being abused???
I agree with caz-m @08:31
The Unionists cannot handle the NHS Privatisation issue hence rolling out Sir Tom Wood to contradict himself.
Keep bashing away that the NHS will be privatised if we vote No
Muscleguy says:
“The No campaign have not darkened either our door or our telephone. Nobody I know or have been canvassing for RIC has been either. Nobody on the doorstep has mentioned being contacted though a few have noted the lack of it. RIC seem to be the most likely group most people will have knock on their doors. Several people noted we were the first to do so.
Lots have had quite a bit of literature but of course much of that has been delivered by the postman or woman.
BTW the house of Yessers we found today with Severin Carrel in tow took a set of Yes posters off us with glee and one was up in their window before we had finished talking and taken away yet another filled in voting registration form (there is till time).
I was out Tues night, this lunchtime, will be tomorrow lunctime (stall manning) and tomorrow evening canvassing before more canvassing at the weekend. At today’s lunchtime canvass we had 10 people out knocking doors en mass. Having to screen out the conversation next door for your one. Where is No? Nowhere”
That’s what it was like at the Glenrothes by-election a few years ago. I know; I was there. And what was the outcome? I fully expect fraud. I hope I’m wrong, but the British State is not run by nice people. Nor are they stupid.
@Edward
Yes, Gray predicted disaster for schools, calamity for hospitals, apocalypse in the streets and a breakdown of all computer systems. The remaining survivors in an independent Scotland would fight over ‘the wooden box’ which contained the banks’ money.
All this before breakfast. By lunchtime, I dread to think what horrors might have befallen the wooden box in BT’s narrative.
I’ve registered for a postal vote because there’s a small chance of me being out of the country on the 18th. However because the stakes for the Union are so high I’m beginning to worry about – what would you call it- interference in the postal voting system by the Westminster government. Is there a system for telling how many people have registered for postal votes and how many are actually counted?
Is it not time for the Yes campaign to mention vast gas reserves that can be tapped from North Sea Coal beds which will be enough to power Scotland hundreds of years.
Underground coal gasification (UCG) means gas can be produced from the massive North Sea Coal fields and be the next energy bonanza for an independent Scotland
http://www.iii.co.uk/articles/179627/algy-cluff-predicts-north-sea-coal-bonanza
or
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10518072/UKs-next-offshore-energy-fortune-lies-in-coal.html
It seems that the No campaign, having lied to everyone else for the last 2 years, are now lying to themselves. I feel most encouraged by this
BT are probably going to hire that nice lady robot that phones me every evening at 6pm and starts to tell me something about payment protection insurance, before I hang up.
Call lasts less than 12 secs, but I have been ‘contacted’.
@Brian Fleming. 9.11am.
Aye, if we lose this thing it’ll be the fiddled postal votes that win it for BT.
That and nobody from Yes Scotland taking the threat seriously.
They certainly talk a good game.
Their sponsors will be really proud knowing that their money is being well spent. And of course there’s always the big box of excuses they can pull out when they fail.
The money’s been spent by then of course.
🙂
Johannah Buchan & Brian Fleming says:
“It’s the claim of 1 million postal voters that worries me”
All the Wings Referendum Agents (including me) are looking for volunteers to oversee the postal votes counts. We will need a considerable number of people. For Aberdeenshire I will need at least 20 people (two per day for 10 days) to be able to do this.
If it matters to you please get in touch and let us know you are prepared to help. Contact me here:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/comment-page-9/#comment-1814399
http://www.energyvoice.com/2014/08/snp-launch-blistering-attack-mismanagement-north-sea/
Never understood the need for bringing all votes to one central location for the count. Surely counting and verification officers could be deployed to individual polling stations to do the count in situ.
I understand that both campaings will have people on the ground at these polling stations throughout the day, why not stay for the count to help verify the results?
@ joe kane, thats a sad display from my MP Anne Begg but they are all keeping a very low profile certainly up here in the north east. Probably not wanting to upset too many Yes votes and keep that labour in Scotland job for life going, or this is Begg’s battle cry. Feed on their fear Anne, fear is the key.
“She finished by saying that a yes vote is a gamble and often when gambling it’s those who have the least that lose out which means that disabled people will lose out.”
http://annebegg.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/what-does-a-yes-or-no-vote-mean-for-disabled-people-in-scotland/
Why has Begg not said who she’s sharing the stage with, what does this mean and another UKOK con artist gets busy
“She also pointed out that welfare is currently distributed based on need rather than a postcode lottery and, therefore, being part of the UK has benefited Scotland as it has allowed resources to be pooled and shared leading to higher public spending in Scotland.”
Is there any country that isn’t plagued by shyster politicians?
What usually happens even with charities is that they hire out a call center with upwards of 2000 people these guys do this all the time. I wonder if the center will come out of their campaign spending though??
Better half and I are also registered for a postal vote..hangover from a couple of years ago when we were out of the country. We have never bothered stopping it as I never had any concerns before that it could be fiddled with. Now I am starting to worry. We will be here for the vote..we apparently have until 3rd Sept to de-register but what if they mess up that process and we end up with no vote! If you were us what would you do?!
Have just read the card again..I can hand the postal vote into any polling station in my area on the day itself…would this be safer?!
@Milady de Winter
I’m not too sure to be honest but you could ask wings and I’m sure Stu will know.
Ask wings button top right hand side of page.
@ Milady de Winter, me too so I cancelled mine and am coming back to Aberdeen to vote in a booth. There’s a giant wall of lying fraudsters going no thanks and the only round them is voting.
eg
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/20/snp-accused-exaggerating-north-sea-oil-reserves
Ian Wood billionaire liar in action completely contradicting his very own Scots oil 24+bn barrel estimates but he says he’s doing for Scots children, won’t someone think of the children Sir Ian.
Ian Wood has a North Sea oil pension fund of one and half billion quid, Scotland has none.
Lets get a couple of things right, shall we? Here is a list of the World’s top 10 Economies.
Ranking: the top 10 best performing economies in the world
01. Switzerland.
02. Singapore.
03. Finland.
04. Sweden.
05. The Netherlands.
06. Germany.
07. United States.
08. United Kingdom.
09. Hong Kong.
10. Japan.
Source : – World Economic Forum
http://forumblog.org/2012/09/the-global-competitiveness-report/
Now here’s the logical argument from that list –
Scotland’s current economy is on a par with the rest of the United Kingdom but the Westminster creative accounting skews the real figures. There are several glaring examples and a damn site more convoluted accountancy rip-offs.
Here are a few of the more obvious ones : –
The Oil & Gas revenues are grabbed as from Extra-Regio Territory, (an invented UK country that lies mainly off Scotland’s shores). This is a geographic designation.. That area is factually 95% Scottish Territorial waters. Then the Treasury shares that revenue between the four UK countries on a per capita basis. (This is a population ratio basis. So Scotland actually contributes 91.5% of the revenue but is only credited with having contributed 8.5% of the revenue. (Note that the 91.5% is NOT allocated as on an individual country basis but as Scotland 8.5% – rest of the United Kingdom 91.5%).
Scotland exported over 26% of the power she generated to the rest of the UK. Yet the National Grid charges Northern Scottish providers of power £20 per kW for a grid connection but subsidises Southern providers £3 per Kilowatt that they add to the grid. This costs Scotland £100 Million more every year. Yet Scotland is the country in surplus and the rest of the UK are the ones in need of the power.
All fines collected by Scottish courts and on-the-spot-fines goes directly to the UK treasury but Scottish law is independent.
The Scottish Crown Estate incomes are rolled in with that of, “the Three country,’Kingdom of England’, yet the oil & gas & renewable installations are mainly in Scottish waters.
So the conclusion is that upon independence Scotland’s economy is on a par with the Kingdom of England and the above creative accounting will be removed from the Kingdom of England and returned to where it is derived Scotland
Is it any wonder they are so intent upon continuing to thieve Scottish assets?
John J “… A system for finding the number of postal votes sent out…” The Electoral Commission do not have this information. An approach to your local Electoral Registration officer asking for
1 Number of postals sent out
2 increase since last election (due to referendum)
3 Number of applications which have been refused by the ERO
4 Number of checks made on existing i.e. pre-referendum postal voters
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/darling-challenged-on-no-vote-effect-on-nhs-177074n.25104176
Nana
Also interesting article there about Labour in Scotland once upon a time being the party of home rule.
Now just a bunch of hangers on to their London bosses (career politicians) and in the pockets of the union establishment and middle class electorate in England.
Yes the postal vote is open to fraud. The safest is to register dummy people to vote and then to ask for a postal vote for them so they don’t have to physically appear at a polling station. The only check is that the signature and date of birth on the ballot paper envelope “match” those on the application for a postal vote.
Fife uses machines for “matching” which are developments of the ones banks use for checking signatures. Any that don’t “match” are passed to CO staff to adjudicate on a split computer screen with the campaign observers on the other side who can agree or object.
The instruction to the CO staff is that they should make every endeavour to allow the voters ballot to be passed.
Every postal pack that is sent out has a reference on it so that the machines can match the signatures to the applications and after the election just as the campaigns can get a marked register of those who voted in person so also there is a “marked register” of those who voted by post.
If you are concerned that your vote might get lost in the post when you get your postal pack you will find that there is a tracking number that you can put on your CO website to see if your vote has been processed.
One of the problems with this system from a fraud point of view is that there is no check for application and signature matching exactly, ie spirographs or transfers
‘Contacting every household at least three times’ = three mail drops telling us Scotland’s shite, paid for by millionaire Tory buddies of war criminals.
‘25,000 activists’ = the unwilling co-operation of the Royal Mail.
Guys,
Think we really need to stop worrying about the postal votes being rigged and votes getting tampered with etc.
There will be campaign officials from both sides in huge numbers.
I just can’t see it happening or it being able to be pulled off to such a grand scale it would affect the outcome.
Concentrate your efforts on these final few weeks of campaigning and put the paranoia to one side.
Re: postal votes. If we have an 81% genuine turnout, plus 20% fraudulent postal votes, could we be the first modern democracy with a 101% turnout?? 😉
Concentrate your efforts on these final few weeks of campaigning and put the paranoia to one side
Its not paranoid if its actually happening, even the Daily Heil no likee
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578776/Scrap-postal-votes-elections-fixed-says-judge-warns-ballot-rigging-probability-parts-Britain.html
Vote early, vote often
O/T
Another scare story debunked.
http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/scots-eu-membership-not-in-doubt-1.533894
Better Together’s response to this is utterly appalling, however. I truly loathe this organisation, they will read from the script no matter what information they’re given.
If they phone you, pretend to be very interested and just need convincing. That should keep them going for about 15 to 20 minutes. Then, just before they ring off, tell them that the conversation has actually convinced you that voting YES is the only meaningful choice for you and your very large family of grown-up sons and daughters.
Mind folks the Punch & Judy show starts at 11.40 & 12.00 for the main event Hollyrood Parliament, & dare I say Bbc democrecy live. Alex Salmond will be on song as will the rest of the Cabinet ah wunner if John Swinney has a wooden box handy, sure as hell the Grey man of labour will ask a question on Finance.
“So, I keep trying, calmly, to get the message across. But I know I’m failing.
So, without sarcasm and calling people idiots, any helpful suggestions?”
The key is getting people to understand that it’s the “status quo” that is the risk. We’re not even halfway through austerity and there are already foodbanks on every street. More cuts are coming. Interest rates, and therefore mortgages, are about to start rising. Wages are falling further and further behind inflation and house prices.
How will independence fix that? Because an independent Scotland will be richer than it is as part of the UK – partly because it’s inherently richer as a country thanks to its wealth of natural resources and low population, partly because we can make policy decisions designed for the benefit of Scotland rather than the SE of England, whose problems and opportunities are very different from ours.
But if we vote No, we’ll get a lot poorer. Most of yesterday’s papers explained why. We’ll have given up our only bargaining chip. Our budget WILL be cut, OVER AND ABOVE the austerity cuts that are coming. Free prescriptions will go. Free tuition will go. Free personal care will go. The pension age will keep increasing above our life expectancy, so we won’t live long enough to see one.
And if we hit hard times – which can happen to anyone, through redundancy or illness or accident – we’ll be cast into the abyss of a destroyed welfare system from which there’s no escape.
None of the above is a positive case. But for those whose argument is “I’m doing fine, I’m scared of risk” it’s the one they need to hear.
“In your extract it doesn’t say they are going to call us. Just contact. In marketing speak that could be contact by post.
Contact 1 – already sent ma postal voting card
Contact 2 – will be sending me a postal voting pack
Contact 3 – …… An automated recorded call, automatic dialling? Could be done from overseas
Easy – 3 contacts have been achieved”
They say specifically “between now and the referendum”. They’ve had their free mailshot, so any contact by mail to 2.4m households would almost totally use up their £1.5m spending limit by itself. And nobody was ever persuaded by a robot calling them while they’re having their tea, only enraged. Even Blair McDougall, by a narrow margin, isn’t THAT stupid.
I.m a postal voter as i’ll be offshore, but I look forward to one of their calls!!!!
I think it was a terrible error of the Yes campaign to not insist on an outright ban on postal votes for this referendum. This I think should have been a far greater priority than extending suffrage to 16-18 year olds. Everyone knows Labour abuses them to high heavens at every election. There’s far too much at stake to allow the Labour machine to diddle things as it always does.
I’ve never had a thing from Better Together. I received the official UK Government leaflets but that is it. I do have one of those phones that block international and withheld numbers so I suppose they may have phoned, I would just never know.
It might be me being stupid, but the Telegraph’s article second paragraph starts with “Up to a million postal voters will be contacted.”
How do the know who these people are? Is there a link on Wings or elsewhere?
Thanks for the response. I’ll just keep plugging away and making those points.
A problem with phone canvassing is that only landline numbers are phoned,and certainly many younger people aged 16-30 do not even have a land line(they prefer mobile phones)
And that is the issue we have as YES canvassers,most people with land lines are older and our canvass returns from them tend to be slightly more NOs.
We much prefer door to door canvassing as we get a good mix of public opinion,and i very much doubt Better together could possibly get all these houses canvassed between now and Sept.18th.
Unless they have super powers I suppose!
Thanks all. I am now decided I don’t like the thought of my vote going astray or being tampered with so have written and asked for a normal vote. Will be posting my request recorded delivery too! Extraordinary though that I am living in the UK yet cannot trust the voting system to be fair..how desperately sad.
I look forward to any visits, myself and my mother…I spotted a helicopter hovering just beyond the house the other day, I thought it might be my first visit, but then again perhaps the 8ft x 5 ft Saltire flying outside may have discouraged them! I feel undervalued, with only two tawdry pieces of paper through the door…then again here in the Highlands even the Postie has a 4×4. I would welcome a visit, I always enjoyed the challenge posed by the Jehovahs! It gets lonely out here sometimes and if they need a wee blether, its nice to take them ben the house to sit below the Claymore, Targe and Ballock Dirk. Offer them some Highland hospitality, some Tea, Dundee cake perhaps, and reminisce how ye might offer them a bed, but ye remember a wee issue in 1690 something, something about what happened to the MacDonalds!
Unfamiliar numbers showing on my caller display are currently being answered by me saying clearly and firmly, “YES?”
Surely the top line in the picture should read, “Better together FOOD banks near you”?
Stu should be doing math classes for BT and UK Gov after the referendum. After a few lessons you might find many of them go “oooooh, I see…” and realise why they should have been Yes from the start.;)
I hope the lack of mails today reflects the fact that yyou’re all out on the street talking to people. I can’t as I live abroad.
If anyone from the naw mob plans on coming to my door then they better walk up the stairs backwards so i can kick their arses straight back down.
Why cant Salmond ask Darling in front of the nation/BBC debate cameras for each to take a lie test to see who has Scotland at heart.
The refusal from better together would sway a lot of people
Also on a side note i contacted yes scotland with this front page in the press and journal last week and they said they had seen it but why have they not used it
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvECWV7IUAA2Pia.png
This is the same story here
http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/1004/bentley-field-biggest-discovery-in-decades/
Interesting take on things but wrong. Your ‘statistics’ are flawed. You count the households in Scotland but don’t count the phonelines and then proceed to produce a farcical long winded puff piece based on your false numbers. I could go on and tear some meaty holes in much of the rest of your ‘calculations’ but to be fair you are all as bad as each other when it comes to extrapolating false and flawed data from broad strokes comments and that, my friends, is the cause of such confusion amongst undecided people who have no ‘passion’ bias one way or the other and as such are purely concerned about their future, the future of their friends and family at home and abroad and the future for their children. Stop picking up flippant and ultimately pointless quotes about largely unimportant aspects of a very important question and demanding that they speak to the character of the opposition as this is purile tit for tat nonsense and drives knowledge and meaningful debate not a jot.
“Your ‘statistics’ are flawed. You count the households in Scotland but don’t count the phonelines”
What’s your point, caller?
My point is fairly obvious I thought… This whole spiel is predicated on an assumption about false claims concerning the ability of volounteers to contact people in Scotland by telephone based on population and number of households. In the first instance, not every household has a phone line these days. Mobile phones are far more prevalent. Other issues abound such as not classifying the population into voting eligibility etc.. my point sir, is that if you wish to pick apart numbers to make a point, make sure your numbers are correct first or, even better, find a better source of debate than picking apart semantics in newspaper articles.
Surely the BT spiel is to impress undecided voters with their overwhelming support as per the poll company results?
And the point of this article is to suggest that that support is not impressive in the slightest and that maybe an undecided voter might like to question not just the claim on level of support by BT but some of their other statistical claims and also question how a campaign in the lead amongst the electorate is failing to motivate said majority into supporting their position with on the ground, out campaigning.
Surely it suggests that those answering the poll with a No vote intention are not voting that way because they believe in the campaign, or anything that BetterTogether No thanks UKOK have said? But in the hope that a No vote might make all the nasty decision stuff go away, returning them to the idyll of the coalition austerity cuts and dismantling of the Welfare System, which they can then moan about safe in the knowledge there is nothing they can do about it anymore. Truly the best of both worlds is to be able to moan without taking responsibility for the situation ?