The news that could be
Posted on
November 07, 2018 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
What can I say. Beats BBC any day.
The Jurassic Park banjo did me in.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The news that could be Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland The […]
The Reporting Scotland section was great. Would love to have called it a parody, but it was too accurate.
Didn’t enjoy the last one, buy this is back on form. Well done lads.
The reporter on the Scottish edition was hilarious.
O/T
Happy Birthday Wings over Scotland (again!). Will you be celebrating tonight Stu? Have one on me (us) X
link to thenational.scot
Needed bigger poppies
Bbc 10 pm national news Brexit coverage failed to mention Scots Parl passing Peoples Vote and Labour abstention. Propaganda is often in the form of omissions.
Sinky @ 22:18,
Whit? Another resolute do-nothin’ by the Peoples’ =ahem= Party? What is the matter with them?
Beats me why we are still paying these idle wasters handsomely out of the public purse to sit on their fat bums as history passes them by and we are dragged ever closer to the precipice…
Excellent stuff Dateline 2018, see you Wednesday.
Regards the poppy, ahm surprised it’s not been britified as yet, ye ken like with red, white and blue poppy petals, nae disrepect tae awe the deid.
o/t the long awaited new Giffnock Lidl opens tomorrow… it’s we got wee saltire Love hearts on the windows.
Ah walked by earlier… they’re queuing outside, the plebs in the tents and the posh in their yurts and campervans.
Opens at 8am.
Good fertile campaigning ground Cactus and a possible bargain deal at the end of it!
How come I keep reading on here that the European Court of Justice case involves the issue of Scottish sovereignty?
From all that I’ve read, the issue is not about Scotland’s sovereignty at all or the Claim of Right; it’s about the process of cancelling Brexit: would the UK require the agreement of the other 27 EU countries to withdraw their resignation from the EU club or could the UK do that unilaterally?
Dateline 2018 could form part of Scotland’s independent broadcasting network, in an independent Scotland. Think of all the other programs that iScotland’s network could broadcast and show to the world!
o/t went to see new movie “Bohemian Rhapsody” ra night, review is that it’s worth a watch, good flick and they kept it to the music.
Hey Lanarkist, sounds like a good idea…
Ah’ll pop around in the morning with me Yes saltire flag. 🙂
For those who dinnae ken, Lidl replaces the previous Whole Foods SS.
Television provides viewers with a myriad of new channels the bulk of which are readily available through WIFI or Ethernet streaming, many hundreds are free of charge. All that is required is the purchase of a ROKU device, (available from all high street and internet vendors).
Installation and set-up is easy. Simply plug the device into a USB port on the television and follow the instructions on the television screen.
There are over 8 million ROKU’s installed and in operation and their use removes the power over the consumer enjoyed and abused by the BBC and ITV television monoliths.
Scottish media is absent from ROKU, but this can easily be corrected. Setting up a programme, for delivery, free of charge, to 8 million viewers costs around £50.
Those who support a Scotland independent from Westminster should lobby our media people to get onto ROKU without delay.
Lol I loved the roving Dateline Scotland reporter!
In case you missed it, lol.
‘Kezia Dugdale withdraws Wings Over Scotland court battle appeal.’
link to thenational.scot
……………………………………………………………..
‘Holyrood backs ‘People’s Vote’ referendum on final Brexit deal.’
..”The SNP and Greens backed the LibDems in the face of Tory opposition, with Labour abstaining.”..
..”Labour’s Iain Gray said Brexit had been a “chaotic and catastrophic process”, but Kezia Dugdale and Daniel Johnson were the only members of the party not to abstain.”..
link to thenational.scot
………………………………………………….
‘Unification ‘the only Brexit win’ for Northern Ireland, report claims.’
link to thenational.scot
…………………………………………………
‘£435,000 ‘Scottish’ donation to DUP ‘permissible under UK law’.’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
………………………………………………………………………..
‘Major reductions in anti-social behaviour in Scotland at Hallowe-en and on Bonfire Night with no officers injured.’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
………………………………………………………
‘A tidal surge for Scottish energy?’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
……………………………………………………
‘Emerging Decommissioning Boom for Aberdeen.’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
………………………………………………………….
It might just be me here but, I think it’s a load o shite.
It’s not even good in a satirical sense. Sorry if that goes against the common consensus but, it’s just not that funny.
Pretty sure some of the contributors on wings could come up with something better with ten minutes prep and five minutes of recorded material.
Maybe it’s just my sense of humour.
‘NHS Scotland delayed discharges holding steady despite massive increase in demand.’
..”There was an 8% increase on the September 2017 figure, in September 2018. The increase in demand for inpatient appointments rose 11.9% in the same period and had risen 34.9% in three years.”..
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
……………………………………….
‘Fewer operations cancelled in NHS Scotland again with only 1.6% due to lack of resources.’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
……………………………………………………….
‘The only poll that matters.’
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
…………………………………………………………….
‘Papers on the Stuarts and Jacobites published online for the first time.’
….”245,000 papers”..
link to thenational.scot
Links
link to gov.scot
link to tarffadvertiser.blogspot.com
Drew Hendry MP – Brexit Public Meeting Nairn 6th November 2018
link to youtube.com
link to grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com
link to randompublicjournal.com
Tesco and the Union jackery only applies to Scotland, or so it seems
link to twitter.com
link to theferret.scot
Foodbank figures for the UK keep going up & up
link to twitter.com
Scottish Rural Action has said the voices of those in rural Scotland must be heard, after a high level of response to a Brexit consultation
link to thirdforcenews.org.uk
link to evolvepolitics.com
link to irishcentral.com
link to rt.com
How John Bercow keeps Keith Vaz’s secrets
link to archive.is
May’s crunch cabinet meeting over Brexit deal delayed amid row
link to archive.is
link to thecanary.co
link to evolvepolitics.com
link to devdiscourse.com
link to theneweuropean.co.uk
Northern Irish DUP – We’re not afraid of UK election if Brexit deal falls short
link to archive.is
link to businessgreen.com
On Tuesday, French Sénat approved bill giving the French government emergency powers to pass laws in the event of a no-deal #Brexit to deal with trade, transport, visa, residency and work issues among other issues. Law now goes to Assemblée Nationale in December.
link to twitter.com
Brexit: retreat to the bunker?
link to eureferendum.com
link to bloomberg.com
Japan’s Toshiba to withdraw from UK nuclear power project
link to archive.is
For as far back as I can remember I have always bought a poppy and worn it, as the phrase goes, with pride.
This year I won’t be doing that.
link to archive.is
link to irishtimes.com
link to zerohedge.com
Next March the Child Sexual Abuse inquiry will look again at Elm Guest House
link to byline.com
Nana the ZeroHedge link Ha ha sumbudies been reading Wings we’ve been up to our armpits in Disinformation & Misinformation for donkeys years .
Nana and Ronnie , does that Zerohedge link mean they’ll be shutting down the BBBC ? STV? All newspapers?? After all they are the disinformers and misinformers to which the public is so readily exposed.
The child abuse is a suppurating evil that needs thoroughly , no matter which of the ‘great and good’ are involved.
‘investigating’ vanished.
Nana says
” Thus, in a mere three paragraphs of a media report, we have “customs agreement”, “customs union” and “single market”, all being used more or less interchangeably, with neither definitions nor distinctions made between the terms. “
Indeed. That has been really really pissing me off. Customs union/agreement is a long way short of single market. Turkey is in customs union, for heaven’s sakes. They wish they were in the single market, of course.
This continual confusion is either intentional or perhaps not. It is subterfuge or it is perhaps a sign that the Tories involved don’t have any in depth understanding.
Either way, worrying!
Dorothy Devine The constellations full of them chist pick wan lol
link to youtube.com
Question prompted by a tweet on WoS Twitter.
Does Tesco et al also put union flags on their produce in Northern Ireland? Anyone know?
Political satire lives! Great tonic – thx for skewering the News where You Are.
Thanks Nana, Tesco history in this hoose!
link to spice-spotlight.scot
link to randompublicjournal.com
link to pharmaceutical-journal.com
link to ukandeu.ac.uk
Much hilarity in Brussels about the Raab/Robbins double act.
link to twitter.com
Raab doing his ‘I’m stupid’ routine
link to twitter.com
link to theneweuropean.co.uk
Tory mp celebrates the opening of a German owned supermarket!
link to twitter.com
Dateline have nailed Reporting Scotland 🙂
A Lidl in GIFFNOCK? Ahahahahahaha!
Sorry but my uncle used to live in Giffnock & I find it hugely amusing given the demographics of the area (ie rich tory bastards).
link to indyref2.scot
Latest from T Connelly
link to twitter.com
Scroll down to the bottom
link to twitter.com
link to blogs.lse.ac.uk
That’s all for now
Ronnie , childhood memories there of wonder and fear!
The Government’s last ditch effort to block our attempt to empower Parliament to act in the national interest has failed. Application for permission to appeal refused – and the end of the line for the Government.
link to twitter.com
So will there-won’t there be a #brexit breakthrough summit in November?
link to twitter.com
That’s definitely all from this public service announcer 🙂
PS Morning Ronnie, Dorothy and Fred and anyone else I’ve missed
Re: Giffnock “rich Tory bastards” – there’s a Yes Giffnock.
Just because they’re rich doesn’t mean they don’t support an independent Scotland.
@ A Bruce 11:56 am :
“Re: Giffnock “rich Tory bastards” – there’s a Yes Giffnock.
Just because they’re rich doesn’t mean they don’t support an independent Scotland.”
WTF does that have to do with a Lidl opening there?
Take your whataboutery BS & shove it.
O/T
Joanna Cherry QC MP
?
Verified account
Delighted to advise Scotland’s Supreme Court has refused UK Govt leave to appeal to U.K. Supreme Court so case on unilateral revocability of #Article50 case will proceed before #CJEU in #Luxembourg on 27 November.
You “shove it” asshole
As BBC refused to cover Scottish Parliament “peoples Vote” and Labour’s abstention perhaps they will cover news that Scotland’s Supreme Court has refused UK Govt leave to appeal to U.K. Supreme Court so case on unilateral revocability of #Article50 case will proceed before #CJEU in #Luxembourg on 27 November
Scotland’s Supreme Court Judgement.
I expect this to be rather under reported in the media, the real significance of this judgement will certainly not be explained, though perhaps used to ferment outrage amongst the rabid brexiteers.
I’m pretty sure I’ve played a couple of open mic nights in Dunfermline with Bozey Bozenket…
Could someone please explain to me what is this all about the Scotland’s Supreme Court refusal to allow the uk government to appeal to the uk Supreme Court I honestly do not have a clue ???
I think Raab’s surprisingly honest admission of ignorance about the scale of Dover business will be very typical of ignorance among other Leave key figures!
I also think it’s clear that the promoters of Brexit must have given no forethought to the extensive UK/EU land border and how the Good Friday Agreement could be honoured. It would surprise me if it ever entered Gove, Johnson, Farage, or Mogg’s vacuous heads prior to 2017.
Then the backstop which was agreed last December…. We keep reading that the Tories initially failed to see the obvious implications that a hard Brexit meant an Irish Sea border.
The want a hard Brexit, but seem unaware of what that must lead to.
With all ignorance comes poor judgement and decision making. If they aren’t aware of much of the background information or are incapable of understanding it, then a chaotic mess seems inevitable.
No lawyer Blair Paterson, but the headline news I see is that Scotland’s Supreme Court just declared itself a bigger dog than the UK’ s Supreme Court.
It’s a Constitutional Sovereignty thing….
Blair Paterson says
A cross party group of folks asked for a legal ruling on whether WM could unilaterally cancel Article 50 and Brexit. They knew the Scottish courts would need to send it the the European Court of Justice for a decision.
He Tories tried to have this stopped, but their appeal has just been rejected.
The ECJ is expected to report on the 27th Nov, I think.
If they say Yes, then it changes everything at WM.
@Blair Pater son,
The case revolves around what article 50 means. The issue is can it be revoked by the UK and will the other 27 accept that revocation. Meaning the UK remains in the EU.
This is a fallback position for MPS in the Commons should we be heading over a Brexit cliff.
Today the UK government sent the Attorney General and two top QCS to have the Scottish Law Lords overturn their decision to send the case to EU courts. They wanted it instead heard at the Supreme Court in England.
The Scottish Law Lords refused and the case goes to the EU court.
The Scottish Law Lords at last standing up for the rights of Scotland.
There’s nothing on the BBC website about the Scottish Supreme Court judgement, so we all must be imagining it.
134,712 men and women who died in World War One.
link to archive.is
Out of 4.7million that equals 2.87%
From Wiki ….
UK total 867,829 to 1,011,687
UK population 45.4million
Equals 1.91% to 2.23%
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Did a look online and learned there was a protest held outside the previous foodstore, before it had even closed.
Aye now quote what one of their banners said:
(see search>>> giffnock+lidl+protest images)
A howde there friendly Lovely neighbours, nice to know of you.
Welcome tae Giffnock:
link to youtube.com
~ Independent Scottish Broadcasting Network ~
Let’s hear it for the Scottish Law Lords – at last standing up for Scotland.
@Nana
Good lord, I see on the Maugham QC thead that the desperate Brexiteers are still quoting “The Five Presidents’ Report: Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union”.
It’s from 2015, and an enormous amount of things have changed since then.
Good news about the Scottish court’s decision. Anything that makes rabid britnats froth even more is good news.
If it’s being non-reported in the media, then this alone indicates that the establishment are bricking it!!
Great, thanks Scottish Law Lords.
A quick google
“Brexit case to continue to European court after appeal bid rejected” (Morningstar 1 hour ago + News and Star 2 hours ago + Belfast Telegraph 2 hours ago)
“” (BBC)
So BBC News Twitter tell us about some England football (?) thing, England rugby thing, some Edinburgh street sign, poppies, David Davis blah, nothing about something way more important. But nothing about the A50 ECJ thing.
Either THE BBC ARE INCOMPETENT or suppressing news. Your choice.
yesindyref2 says:
“Either THE BBC ARE INCOMPETENT or suppressing news.”
OR
THE BBC ARE HIGHLY COMPETENT AT suppressing news. 🙂
All depends on whose side you are on!
@ Breeks.
” it’s a Constitutional Sovereignty thing “. Absolutely bang on.
Scottish Parliament TV Today.
FIRST MINISTER’S QUESTIONS.
Scottish Parliament YouTube:
link to tinyurl.com
Re rejected appeal and ECJ ruling on Article50.
It’s it funny how the MSM, particularly the more venomous right wing gutter press, were all over previous ‘attempts’ to ‘thwart Brexit’, like the Miller case. However, they are silent about something much more fundamental and probably more important.
Personally, I think the ECJ will decide that WM can unilaterally revoke Article 50. If the UK parliament, still a full member of the EU, did show by majority that it wanted Brexit to stop, I cannot imagine the EU27 saying, “nope, you’ve got to go”.
So it they do come back with a YES, the whole dynamic at WM changes. No one can claim the only alternative to a negotiated Withdrawal Agreement is ‘No Deal’.
That eventuality is presumably what the hard Brexiteers are terrified of! And they don’t want wider discussion of Brexit revolving around it. So shhhh, don’t mention the Scottish court’s request for ECJ clarity.
What a surprise……
There’s nothing on the British State Broadcaster’s website about the rejected appeal……
Suppressing the news again?
@Breeks says:8 November, 2018 at 1:37 pm:
” … I see is that Scotland’s Supreme Court just declared itself a bigger dog than the UK’ s Supreme Court.
It’s a Constitutional Sovereignty thing…”
More like a sovereignty thing and several Wingers have been commenting upon it for some time now.
Here’s |a couple of links:-
link to ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk
link to theguardian.com
“UK Gov defeated in Scotland’s Supreme Court” is not a headline that would ever play well with the BBC in Scotland’s agenda to put Scotland down at every possible opportunity.
Hence its omission.
And here’s another couple of Links:-
link to scottishlegal.com
link to hansard.parliament.uk
…or for Scots to actually be made aware (regardless of what WM thinks) that we DO actually hold some power in this accursed ‘Union’.
Can’t have us Scots knowing our real power and getting uppity – must keep us in our place.
Sorry I have I been out but I would like to say thank you to you all who took the time to reply to my post regarding the Scottish Supreme Court thank you
“Spoof billboards celebrating Russian President Vladimir Putin’s “contribution” to Brexit have been put up in London by a satirical group which says it wants to secure recognition for the role Russian military intelligence played in the referendum.”
link to reuters.com
Yes movement needs to pull stunts like this, perhaps!
@Albert Herring says: 8 November, 2018 at 1:50 pm:
” … There’s nothing on the BBC website about the Scottish Supreme Court judgement, so we all must be imagining it.”
I commented upon this when it first broke and, if memory serves, I finished the comment with this in quotes and in italics:-
“But they don’t want you to know that”.
I had jaloused that the MSM. SMSM and the unionist broadcasters would not be reporting it.
The Lord Advocate quoted. “The Scottish Claim of Right”, and Westminster did not contest it. Now that could be from either complete ignorance of what it entailed or from knowing what it entailed but terrified to contest it in the hope that it could just be ignored.
The, “Scottish Claim of Right” – See here:-
link to en.wikipedia.org
Garry Henderson @ 14:06,
Yes, Garry, all credit due, both to the court and to the merry band of protagonists who stood up to be counted.
Which is more than can be said for know-nothing do-nothing NorthBritLab, who once again funked it in Holyrood.
galamcennalath @ 15:12,
You could well be right. Makes perfect sense. That would then be the cat well and truly among the Brexiteer pigeons.
Oh dear. Heh, heh.
@Robert Peffers,
I think some know Robert, blissful ignorance for the rest.
The Treaty of Union has always been the key.
@ Robert Peffers
Thank you for the links Robert.
As I continue to understand it: it is the Continuity Bill case at the Supreme Court, currently awaiting the Court’s ruling.
So, there’s arguments about UK parliamentary sovereignty / Scottish sovereignty/ devolution settlement.
It’s a separate legal principle from the case going to the ECJ.
Though both linked with Brexit.
@Garry Henderson says: 8 November, 2018 at 2:06 pm:
” … Let’s hear it for the Scottish Law Lords – at last standing up for Scotland.”
Oh! Get a grip!
The Scottish Law Lords had the very same problem the SNP had, and more so after they gained power at Holyrood or became the major Scottish party at Westminster.
None of them had a hope in hell of winning any legal challenges in courts of law or in either parliament without the weight of a large number of the Scottish electorate behind them. As long as there was no public demand for independence any move in either parliament or in the law courts would have been thrown out and independence gone forever.
That’s how Scots law works – it has to be backed by the legally sovereign people of THE KINGDOM Of Scotland.
Not so in the 3 country Kingdom of England. Where the Queen of England is legally sovereign but has legally delegated her sovereign powers to the Kingdom of England Parliament.
However, as there has NOT been an elected parliament of The Kingdom of England since 30 April 1707 Westminster really has had no actual legal sovereignty over the Kingdom of Scotland excepting by the implied consent of the legally sovereign people of Scotland.
It is only implied and there is nothing legally says that Westminster has sovereignty over Scotland.
The thing is that The United Kingdom is just that – a united kingdom – It is NOT a country. Furthermore, Westminster is not the actual parliament of England and the Treaty of Union is a legal agreement between two equally sovereign KINGDOMS. Yet Westminster has never treated Scotland as an equally sovereign partner.
There really is no Parliament of the Kingdom of England and that is what is now in the hands of the ECJ, (The World Court).
I’ll leave you to contemplate the significance of that decision if the ECJ finds in Scotland’s favour.
NO daft….
@Colin Alexander says: 8 November, 2018 at 4:09 pm:
” … It’s a separate legal principle from the case going to the ECJ.”
Oh! Get real.
The Scottish Claim of Right is without doubt the Scottish claim of the legal Sovereignty of the people of Scotland.
If the ECJ finds in favour of Scotland then they are finding that the people of Scotland have sovereignty over Scotland and you cannot have more than one sovereign power over a nation.
Proud Cybernat, brilliant and so true!
@Jack Murphy
Thanks for that link. No mention on the Auntie with a kilt site so a slow news day.
James Kelly asks a Question on football. What’s he like? 🙁
FM gave him a straight reply no sniping. Good for her.
Still no BBC mention of ECJ / Court of Session / WM appeal thrown out.
IMO the BBC is moving away from fake news and obvious bias, and more towards simple omission.
If they are, then pressure from being called out continually might be having some effect. It would be nice to believe so!
Back to the Dateline video here, as I am living in nearby Grangemouth, i can confirm the picture use in the Skinflats story is actually of 2 real shoos in Skinflats…
Which makes Dateline 2018 MORE REPUTABLE and accurate than both BBC Scotland and STV news.
How crazy is it that a spoof news channel is more truthful than the ‘real’ thing ?
Thats the position we find ourselves in today.
Extract from the BBC charter:-
6. The Public Purposes
The Public Purposes of the BBC are as follows.
(1) To provide impartial news and information to help people understand and engage with the world around them: the BBC should provide duly accurate and impartial news, current affairs and factual programming to build people’s understanding of all parts of the United Kingdom and of the wider world. Its content
should be provided to the highest editorial standards. It should offer a range and depth of analysis and content not widely available from other United Kingdom news providers, using the highest calibre presenters and journalists, and championing
freedom of expression, so that all audiences can engage fully with major local,regional, national, United Kingdom and global issues and participate in the democratic process, at all levels, as active and informed citizens.
It is apparent that they fail to meet their obligations in every aspect.
Are they liable for a legal case against them ?. Any legal eagles about that could clarify?
galancennalath @ 1.50 pm
I think if you adjust the UK figures to exclude Scottish deaths and population you will get a different % for rUK. I make it 1.8%. Hence Scottish deaths were 60% higher.
galamcennalath@4.56.
Regarding the BBC.
I normally wake up to GM Shortbread, just to listen to which SNP baaad story they will run with for the gullible.
I have noticed reference to “The Sun” being used daily as a source of news.
That describes the “Quality!?” of the depths to which the BBC have sunk.
A Total Embarrassment.
Robert Peffers, thanks for the link to Hansard, was on holiday when that debate took place, sounds like it was a cracker! One thing I am not sure of, if you can explain, does the fact that the SNP did not sign the claim of right make any difference to its legality?
I would like to thank you for your ‘history lessons’, as a non Scot married to a Scot, I have found them very illuminating.
Also Nana, for all the links , though breakfast is extending nearly to lunchtimes now!
For clarity.
The case going to the ECJ is nothing to do with sovereignty.
Andy Wightman raised the case to ensure that UK MPS could have the possibility to rescind article 50. The ECJ will be ruling on the legality of this and for the other 27 EU members to allow that rescinding.
The Supreme Court in London are ruling on the Continuity Bill which would determine the Rights of the Scottish people who rejected Brexit.
These are unrelated cases, but a lawyer friend proposed to me today that the ECJ ruling could be enacted by Holywrood in isolation, if the SNP have the will to have it challenged in court yet again. It would further delay Brexit
Galamcennalath 9.33am. I doubt it,they dont put put their butchers aprons on driving licences. They know what the backlash would be. But the sweaties will accept any old sh**e.
They’re now Dateline 2018 no longer Dateline Scotland. Further satire on the Britishization currently being attempted by UK government
“Europe’s top court will consider whether Britain can unilaterally stop Brexit, after the U.K. government’s bid to halt the case failed.” … says the New York Times.
Come on BBC, try to keep up with events!
Item on the guardian website re the Scottish court judgement today
link to theguardian.com
Ya dancer!
The ECJ decision is due in November 27th.
If we have to believe the ‘leaked memo’ on Nov.6th the ‘meaningful vote’ will take place in WM that very evening…. it’s all getting incredibly close.
Did anyone hear the Scottish news at lunchtime- blink and you would have missed it but it now seems that the 4 cows that were culled in Aberdeenshire a couple of weeks ago
DID NOT HAVE BSE………
Let’s hope this news gets front page headline news like the initial reports did and that everyone will rejoice because Scottish beef is once again a premium product – or is it?
Nothing on the BBC website
Is the damage done?
Proud Cybernat @4.09
I like that, that is really good message is loud and clear even to the most befuddled.
Well worth a crowd funder.
Apologies – Re the minuscule announcement on the Scottish news at lunchtime about BSE:
I have found an article tucked away on the NE, Orkney and Shetland section of the BBC Scotland web site. My mistake, seems there was one confirmed case of BSE initially but the four other culled cows did not have the disease. Tests have come back negative.
Still good news for our beef farmers but I don’t imagine it will be widely publicised.
@Bob Mack.
The Supreme court is doing nothing of the sort. It is being asked to rule on the competence of the Scottish Parliament to pass a bill which Westminster considers a reserved matter.
Watched Bbc 6 pm national news not a word about Scottish Supreme Court decision but plenty about Wayne Rooney and some 70 year old on state benefits
@Golf nut,
Waken up. Holywood only has the power to legislate by virtue of the Sovereign will of the Scottish people. Have you not heard that? Therefore it follows if the Supreme Court decide Scotland and her people have sovereignty then they must allow the case to succeed.
It is more than the powers of a devolved parliament,because that case already failed early last year when the judges noted the will of the Scottish people was expressed through their representatives in Westminster. Remember when Mr Wolfe and the Welsh Attorney General challenged in tandem with Gina Miller?
From Leo Varadkar
Have paid back all we borrowed from @IMFNews plus interest & early. Ireland has no budget deficit now and we have a Rainy Day Fund. Happy to do same for UK and help them out financially in the future if they need it for some reason…
Re court judgement- news blackout from BBC and pretendy STV.. Not a busy news night as we have still have football, an American trying to mimic a “Scattish accent” – I thot their wis mair than wan tae.
Quite deliberate. No free press or media in Scotland
The real juicy thing about the BBC not carrying the story is that unlike the UK’s version of “democracy”, hoodwinking the people or keeping them uninformed will have no bearing on the course of these events.
Hide the story under the bed if you like BBC, it isn’t going save you. Scotland’s Constitution is stronger than you are, and it will look after the Nation of Scotland much better than you ever did.
@ Bob Mack.
Well you got one bit right, the Supreme court ruled that the Scottish people’s Sovereignty is invested in her elected MP’S, as UK law makers. It had no choice in that decision. The UK Parliament acknowledged the people of Scotland’s sovereignty when it passed without contention the motion on the Scottish claim of rights. It had no choice regards that decision either. The only sovereignty under the spotlight ‘re the Continuity Bill is Westminsters.
@Bob Mack.
Sorry, posted before I had finished.
If the Supreme court rules against the Scottish Parliament, then we have a Constitutional crisis. If it rules against Westminster we have a Constitutional crisis.
@Golf nut,
The whole point is this. Nowhere only any literature pertaining to any of the court cases we have had so far,does it acknowledge the Sovereignty of the Scottish people. The claim of Right means nothing in legal terms as it was authorised by Westminster.
This Continuity case means the judges either have to publicly accept ,he sovereign right of Scots or reject it. They will have to do so in full public view. I see no room for fudges.
Holywood represents that or it doesn’t. We the Scottish people elected them . They made decisions on our behalf with that power of sovereignty.
What can the judges make ot that if the Sovereign will of Scots is recognised?
Channel 4 news had a brief item on the judgement announced today, that the UK Gov had lost and case will be decided by the European Court later this month.
At least Prince Charles won’t interfere in Constitutional matters just like his moth..e.r
oops they Royals do … why because they are tories Class 1 establishment.
@Bob Mack, Golf nut
The UK Supreme Court has already in previous cases e.g. AXA v The Lord Advocate (2011), accepted the sovereignty of the Scottish people.
Tory MSP Annie Wells gets suspended from the Scottish parliament for a week on full pay. A weeks paid holiday for doing something wrong. Some punishment. Well seeing it was the Britnat Labour Party that designed the Scottish parliament. Mind you who is going to even notice she is not there.
Just got round to watching the Lesley Riddoch film on Norway. If you haven’t seen it yet, it’s the best yet from Phantom Power. It makes me so envious of the Norwegians and their self-determination. What a contrast to the poverty of means and political freedom which hobbles Scotland. 59 mins:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@Albert Herring,
No Albert ,they did not accept that at all. What they rejected from the insurance companies was that the legislation used to prosecute the case was not “irrational” which is the legal term for unreasonable. The Judges found the legislation appropriate in the circumstances, even though it was created in Holyrood. This among several other factors.
They at no time suggested the legislation was anything to do with Scottish Sovereignty.
A good piece here:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Worth reading.
@Macart
Yes & some well remembered commentators on that thread too.
Some I have not heard of for a while.
If anything, Scotland’s pretendy “Supreme Court” is doing the dirty work in the name of the UK establishment.
It would never, ever unambigously make a ruling which would harm Westminster’s stranglehold on Scotland.
If any “pleb” needs reminding, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.
@ Bob Mack.
I get your reasoning as far as it goes, but I beg to differ on the acknowledgment of Scottish Sovereignty.
The Papal Courts acceptance of the ” Declaration of Arbroath. The Treaty of Union enshrined our right as well as Scottish Constitutional law which protects it. Lord Cooper referenced it in 1953, Axa verses The Lord Advocate 2011.
Today the Scottish Court refused the UK gov permission to appeal to the so called UK Supreme court in England, the authority to do so is enshrined in the Treat of Union.
In 2014 we decided not to make our Parliament sovereign, if we had, we wouldn’t be having this conversation now. We didn’t vote to make Westminster Sovereign either, so they need our permission, or the permission of the only representative elected body in Scotland. Both have refused.
Although our Parliament can’t claim sovereignty, it has a duty to act to protect our interests as does the law.
@galamcennalath “IMO the BBC is moving away from fake news and obvious bias, and more towards simple omission.
If they are, then pressure from being called out continually might be having some effect. It would be nice to believe so!”
It’s why I’m calling THE BBC ARE INCOMPETENT – that might be more effective than accusing them of bias. Not reporting major news would be seen by everyone as incompetence, and why?
Because the BBC are indeed, incompetent.
@Golfnut,
Sorry. Your wrong. The court made it very clear in their judgement on Axxa, that devolved bodies are not sovereign and never addressed the principle of individual sovereignty held by Scots. You can check that for yourself.
This same principle was held last year v Gina Miller et Al, and in fact Axxa was used as a citation.
Damn, posted on the wrong tab.
@Bob Mack “For clarity.
The case going to the ECJ is nothing to do with sovereignty.”
The case itself isn’t, no. It’s the getting there is about the sovereignty of the Scottish Courts though (to make it short), hence the UK Gov sending their top guy, Keen, who, to be fair, was bound to fail.
@Jock McDonnell
BTP and Strathedin still pop in to WGD and Peter still blogs over on Tarff Adv. But yes, a few there that bring back memories. 🙂
Bob Mack at 8.01
“The claim of Right means nothing in legal terms as it was authorised by Westminster.”
Find that remark confusing. .
Bob Mack at 8.01
“The claim of Right means nothing in legal terms as it was authorised by Westminster.”
Find that remark confusing.
@galamcennalath who said:
8 November, 2018 at 3:12 pm
Re rejected appeal and ECJ ruling on Article50.
“I think the ECJ will decide that WM can unilaterally revoke Article 50. If the UK parliament, still a full member of the EU, did show by majority that it wanted Brexit to stop, I cannot imagine the EU27 saying, “nope, you’ve got to go”
I beg to differ – if the ECJ agrees a country can unilaterally revoke Art 50 – nothing can stop that country initiating a cycle of “trigger it, revoke it and after a bit trigger it again”.
And any EU country could do it.
The EU would be bogged down forever in the the type of Brexit negotiations that are now on-going, – maybe even at diverse stages on several fronts – in a never-ending vicious circle.
Together with all the associated costs of wo/man power, intellectual committment, meetings etc so that it would hardly have time to do anything else.
I honestly don’t see this passing – if revocationis accepted as possible, it would need to be sanctioned by all other EU Countries and subjected to stringent rules about any ideas of triggering Art 50 in the future as well as hefty fines for “time, money and manpower wasting etc
Correction to last paragraph
” I honestly don’t see this passing.
BUT if revocation is accepted as possible, it would need to be approved and sanctioned by all other EU Countries and subjected to
1)stringent rules about any ideas of triggering Art 50 in the future
2) the bill for EU costs to the date of revocation approval by the other EU members and
3) hefty fines for wasting “time, money and manpower etc
@ben madigan
No, that’s what the ECJ court case is all about – whether the UK can unilaterally revoke A50 and doesn’t need the EU-27 consent.
@ yesindyref2
yes I did understand that was what the ECJ court case was about.
I gave you practical reasons why I don’t think it will succeed.
They can all be dressed up in EU jurisprudence
Article 50 says nothing as to whether or not a member state can withdraw or revoke the original notification to the Union of it’s intention to leave the EU.
No doubt that it is why the ECJ will be required to give a ruling since this is a unique situation that has never occurred and was never anticipated.
Article 50
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
link to lisbon-treaty.org
If the ECJ rules that the UK can revoke their notification to leave then no doubt that part of the treaty would be amended in future to make sure it was clearer.
It probably will be amended whatever the outcome just so that it is clear. I think we could toss a coin here as to which way this will go and it will have more to do with politics than law is my view.
@Boudicca says: 8 November, 2018 at 5:30 pm:
” … thanks for the link to Hansard, was on holiday when that debate took place, sounds like it was a cracker! One thing I am not sure of, if you can explain, does the fact that the SNP did not sign the claim of right make any difference to its legality?”
Ah! Perhaps I just assumed folks know a bit of the history. I was lucky to have had a lady teacher. A born teacher from a family of teachers. I had her brother as my primary teacher. The lady made history live for her pupils and, in the age of the Lochgelly Tawse, I never witnessed her or her brother ever need to punish a pupil.
But I digress – The SNP had very valid reasons to not sign that declaration but it made no difference to the legality of it. The reason being that the original, “Scottish Claim of Right”, was the 1320, “Declaration of Arbroath”.
Those that followed were thus only affirmations of The Declaration of Arbroath. That is the basis of the Scottish people’s legal sovereignty.
There is an interesting link here:-
link to parliament.scot
To further explain my particular interest in the subject of the Scottish People’s sovereignty. As a secondary schoolboy in Edinburgh my usual Saturday was to explore around the many pawnbrokers, second-hand book stores in the old town. Then, before going to the football to watch either Hibs or Hearts, and if the weather was good, I’d retire to the peaceful Greyfrier’s Churchyard to read any books I had bought.
There I struck up a conversation with an old man who also always had his nose in a book. We shared a love of Scottish history. It transpired that he was a semi-retired King’s Council and I learned a great deal of the legalities involved in Scottish history from him.
Here’s a couple of little known Scots laws that stem from The Declaration of Arbroath. Scots have legal right to roam anywhere in Scotland except on Railways, MOD property and in close proximity of private dwellings. There is no English style law of Trespass in Scotland because, as legally sovereign, the people own Scotland. The exception being near dwellings is a sort of Peeping Tom Act.
Also, no one except the police or Traffic Wardens can clamp, or tow away vehicles parker on private land and demand payment to release the vehicle back to the owner for the same reason. The police/wardens can do so but only for safety reasons.
So there you go – sound evidence that Scots law is not only independent but the people are legally sovereign.
See:-
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to theyworkforyou.com
I hope Rev Stu doesn’t moderate this post for too many links.
I don’t think this is going to go down well.
‘Scotland to lead the way with world first LGBTI school curriculum.’
link to thenational.scot
O/T but saw someone online saying there had been a riot in Belfast tonight (Larne) and the UDA/DUP were being blamed. Guardia injured. Seems to be right as BBC website and other news outlets are reporting it.
Not good.
The Telegraph tomorrow is headlining a story that the EU is demanding that a deal must include continuing fishing rights for EU boats in U.K. waters.
Watch the Tories once again sell out the dopey fishermen who voted for them in the North East.
Fool me once ………………
TMay’s idea of a UK wide customs union is meeting with resistance because without a lot of small print it will give the UK an unfair advantage. And a lot of small print takes time to formulate.
And on and on it goes. The Tories have left all this a year too late!
link to irishtimes.com
@Petra –
Ach, let’s just wait and see how it pans out.
First-yr in Secondary we all got wound-up by our elder siblings that we’d get the special class from Dr. D***e (just in case his relatives may read this) where he’d explain the reproductive process using a very ‘interesting’ slide show. We all imagined there would be some actual explicit material. People with none clothes on an aw that…
These special ‘health’ classes didn’t appear on the timetable, but were half of what, ostensibly, was a double-period of Art, Tech, or whatever else. We didn’t know when this class or slide-show would happen. A bit like the guy waiting to be hanged, sitting there in the cell, doesn’t realise that the wall in front of him is false and will be drawn apart, the noose is right there etc, afore ye know it, bam, that’s it…
So the day arrived, halfway through Latin or somesuch boredom, and we were ushered into a dimly lit class and Dr. D***e was there and he told us it was time we knew certain things that some people would prefer that we didn’t, whereupon we had to watch a whole stack of dodgy hair-infested old slides about frog spawn.
I celebrate modern debates, arguments about sex, gender an aw that jazz. Compared to forty years ago, it’s a different world altogether, certainly if you were a teenager who happened to have been born into a not-that-bothered-about-it-all Catholic family in Glasgow. Aye, there’s total belters who push it all too far and get themselves and others in bother by being selfish, but in general it’s a much healthier scene than it was back then.
Let the youngsters work it out for themselves!
That’s what I say!
More power to them!
That’s what I say!
No more slideshows about frogspawn!
🙂
A big Oops!
The European Union wants a customs border in the Irish Sea, between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, in the event of a no-deal Brexit, a letter from Theresa May seen by the London Times newspaper suggested.
link to archive.fo
Seems ridiculous to me as in the event of a no-deal then there surely would be no border in the Irish Sea between NI and UK as we’d both be out and out for good. A hard border in Ireland and between the Republic and the UK would be inevitable.
Scare tactic by May possibly to get the DUP onside for the vote in Westminster to get her “deal” through?
The EU might “want” a border in the Irish Sea in the vent of no deal but if the UK leaves with no deal they can insist on nothing from the UK. It’s bullshit by May and the EU in an attempt to scare the DUP into supporting her in a vote in parliament.
Pretty pathetic really, thought they’d be better than that.
@Dave McEwan Hill,
You know the claim of right originates from the dispute between King James and England who offered the throne to William of Orange as James had fled when William invaded Scotland deliberated on this choice and produced the Claim of Right Act to dethrone James.
The last referendum 2014 had to have the assent of Parliament even though SNP had a majority in Holyrood. Thus we had the Referendum Act in 2013 approved by Westminster.
Bob Mack at 12.02
Indeed, but the Westminster Parliament a few weeks ago voted assent for the Scottish Claim of Right
Thepnr @ 11.55
Can the EU no insist that any goods from them to the UK be checked there?
Don’t get me wrong I agree that May is playing with the DUP,but I can’t see why the EU aren’t able to say ” good come this far and then are checked or they don’t continue “?
After Rabb informs his government that the UK is indeed an island they might see the need to import EU goods and then the EU get to say where they are to be checked!
The people are sovereign.
Night.
@Liz g
This border in the Irish Sea between NI and the UK that the Times are claiming the EU “wants” is in the event of a No Deal.
It surely means nothing as with “no deal” the EU can no longer dictate anything to the UK. It’s a load of bull being spun by May in a 5 page letter apparently to the DUP.
With no deal there will be a hard border in Ireland it’s as simple as that.
Shameless so the are hahaha.
@Liz g
All change next stop, get off the bus!
Reuters appear to have gotten their headline just a wee bit wrong. Theirs stated:
EU wants customs border in Irish Sea in case of no-deal Brexit – Times
link to archive.fo
Now though we are hearing something that may be more accurate from the Irish Times.
Theresa May faces a fresh Brexit headache after a letter to the DUP on the backstop risked a rift with her unionist allies.
Following receipt of the letter, DUP leader Arlene Foster said the prime minister appeared “wedded to the idea of a border down the Irish Sea” despite Downing Street’s assurances to the contrary.
The letter suggests the EU’s fallback proposal aimed at avoiding a hard Border between the North and the Republic, regardless of whether the UK and the EU reach a Brexit deal, would effectively keep Northern Ireland aligned with Brussels’s customs union and single market.
link to irishtimes.com
Just the usual games being played, they will keep this going to the very end even beyond the December Summit planned. It will all come down to some kind of breakthrough at the very last minute and Parliament when it comes to a vote better like it or lump it with no deal.
Nobody with half a brain will fall for this crap or will they?
The people who are being played here are us, the general public. It doesn’t matter whether your a Tory or SNP, DUP voter. It doesn’t matter whether you voted Leave or Remain.
This is all just about manipulating public opinion so that the majority will take whatever they can get. After all aren’t they just totally sick of the whole carry on anyway?
They’ll be glad it’s all over and the UK proved triumphant in the end once again. Won’t they?
Without drawing any conclusions, it is worth reflecting on the complete change of circumstances in which the issue of Scottish Independence finds itself.
In the period up to September 2014, and afterwards, Independence and a referendum were almost inseparable.
Now, since the EU referendum in June 2016, the question of Independence is now located in issues legal and constitutional. A referendum has almost slipped out of sight, perhaps to return but certainly not right now.
I suspect from this change, that gaining Independence is more organic and evolutionary than we first thought back in 2012 when the Indy2014 Campaign began. This is obviously important, if only because it influences the Yes strategy by making us all think about the current reality about Brexit and its relationship with Independence.
There is a lot to be decided between now and 11pm on March 29th next year. But at the very least, some of it will be decided in the European Court of Justice, but, in addition and of necessity, it will also involve the EU on how Brexit is resolved. Whatever is concluded thereby, will inevitably play a huge role in the advancement of Scotland’s independence.
Such a development was not foreseen in 2014, yet here we are, and who could argue against Scotland’s position now being much stronger than back in 2014, when the only way forward that everyone could see was a Referendum.
The political forces in play through the Brexit Referendum are very considerable indeed. Somehow, we must hope that through the current Brexit crisis, a force for change to the constitutional structure of the UK will emerge to Scotland’s satisfaction.
Amazingly in a separate second story on Brexit from the Irish Times an EU official has this to say.
“There are going to be divergent and possibly contradictory narratives about this but if the British want to deceive their public about what it means, that’s up to them. Maybe that’s what it takes,” a senior EU source said.
link to irishtimes.com
Played like fiddles, the sleepwalkers that go around with their eyes closed. Not Scotland’s problem enough of us have our eyes open and we have a way out of this deceit.
Who wants to be governed by a bunch of liars, spivs and chancers? No thanks.
@ben madigan
Sorry, I replied to your second post without having seen the first. But the problem is that the ECJ will rule on Law, not politics – it’s made up of senior Law people from different member states of the EU, and I don’t see them “corrupting” the Law for the sake of politics.
But yet, A50 would have to be changed, and urgently as well in future, which all EU-27 would have to agree to unanimously.
@yesindyref2
The law unless written down in language that can be clearly understood has a tendency to evolve only after judgements are made can things become clearer.
Then a precedent is set and the law can be amended, that’s the issue here. There is nothing in Article 50 that says that a state that said it wanted to leave could not subsequently change it’s mind before it had actually left the EU.
So right now there is no law and the judges will have to make up their minds as to what they think the “law” meant to imply. In other words they will be writing the law on making their judgement and that’s where politics could play it’s part.
I’m not 100% sure revoking Article 50 is the primary objective here. I see it as a “test case of convenience” to establish whether the whole UK parliament, not just the minority Government ostensibly in office, can arbitrarily make such a weighty decision.
As a parallel, consider whether the Captain of a ship can be relieved of command by the second in command if the captain becomes unstable and rendered unfit to command. By prevailing definition, it is the Westminster Parliament which is sovereign, not the Conservative party in minority government.
As I understand it, it is the ascendancy of the whole Parliament over an incumbent Government which is being tested in law, and that in turn opens the can of worms for Westminster about what physically constitutes the UK Parliament. Therein lies the big problem for Westminster, because it’s Constitution is about to go under the microscope, and we all know it’s claim over Scotland’s Sovereignty is “tenuous” to say the least.
As I understand it, the case before the ECJ will require the UK Parliament to define and articulate it’s Constitutional DNA to prove the will of Parliament superior to the will of its Governing party, and it will be in defining itself Constitutionally that the concept of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty will come unstuck, because the actual Constitution of the UK Parliament is, and has been for the last 300 years, a monumental fudge which has never given appropriate and due regard to Scotland’s own and distinct sovereign Constitution.
The ECJ case will examine the UK Constitution to determine who can overrule Article 50, but it is that rigorous disassembly of Westminster’s Constitution which will bring Scotland’s popular Sovereignty to the fore.
I am not a lawyer, but the law is a stickler for detail in determining legal legitimacy, and the Concept of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty is going before the scrutiny of the European Court of Justice, and everybody knows there is a great big hole in the bottom of its boat. – Nevermind Article 50, the process will, we must hope, unpick the wrongfully subjugated Constitutionally Sovereign integrity of Scotland.
In essence, we must hope that the ECJ recognises UK Parliament is the superior of the UK Government, which it is, but that the UK Parliament is the bibartite composition of two Constitutional Sovereignties, – which it is. The “Union of Equals”, where one Sovereignty cannot subjugate the other should prevail, and UK’s bastardised interpretation of sovereignty will finally come unstuck.
Excellent article from Lesley Riddoch. Why are the SNP dragging their heels? Waiting until we are independent to avoid massive lawsuits?
Lesley Riddoch: ‘Animal activists and land reformers must team up to get results.’
link to thenational.scot
……………………………………………………………………
‘Terror de-radicalisation referral rate in Scotland less than one third per capita of that in England.’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
…………………………………………………………………………….
‘Harris Tweed wins Union Jackery fight after British label scandal.’
link to thenational.scot
……………………………………………………………………………
@ Ian Brotherhood says at 11:10 pm …. ”Petra – Ach, let’s just wait and see how it pans out.”…
Thanks for your reply Ian. It’ll be interesting to see how the MSM ”construes” this, in line with the smacking of children ban, named person scheme and so on. More than anything how will it go down, pan out, with parents and teachers who are currently complaining bitterly about their work load?
‘Scotland to lead the way with world first LGBTI school curriculum.’
link to thenational.scot
Links
link to gov.scot
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
Nicola Sturgeon has said she will reject any Brexit deal from the UK Government short of retaining permanent membership of the single market and the customs union.
link to archive.is
Nicola Sturgeon urges EU to retain Edinburgh office after Brexit
link to archive.is
Cattle culled after Aberdeenshire BSE case clear of disease
link to archive.is
link to rbs.postach.io
The greatest naval disaster in British history is largely forgotten and better remembered in Brittany than at home. In two special programmes for #RemembranceDay, the Alex Salmond Show examines why the loss of #TheLancastria is the unknown disaster.
link to facebook.com
link to scottishhousingnews.com
link to holyrood.com
link to theorkneynews.scot
link to thehub.scot
link to welfareweekly.com
link to scottishconstructionnow.com
The Tories bring poverty and despair to the vulnerable
link to lbc.co.uk
link to taxresearch.org.uk
link to rte.ie
link to irishtimes.com
link to chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com
Canada’s Bombardier plans to cut 5,000 jobs, including an unknown number in the UK, as it grapples with a multi-billion pound debt incurred during the development of aircraft.
link to archive.is
Tory Brexiters planning to reject deal even with backstop exit clause
link to archive.is
Brexit: ferries across the Channel
link to eureferendum.com
link to thecanary.co
link to independent.co.uk
In this EXPLOSIVE episode of #3Blokes In A Pub, we chat with Mike Galsworthy of Scientists for EU and NHS Against Brexit about the sickening insanity of what our once-sensible nation is doing to itself by cutting ourselves off from international medical and scientific research… and the effects that will have on the NHS which we hold dear.
link to facebook.com
Bob Mack at 1202am
Nope, sorry what you have stated whilst technically accurate, is wholly misleading. Their was no NECESSITY for westminster approval, That is what the claim of right asserts, that Scotland has the right to determine its now form of government. It doesn’t say, ‘Scotland has the right to determine its own form of government after asking Westminster for permission’.
If you recall, initially, Westminster and its media puppets were shouting that Scotland could not decide by itself, and that any referendum MUST be of the entire UK on whether Scotland can be independent.
What Westminster says or asserts to be true, is never usually a reflection of the actual situation. The Edinburgh agreement merely made matters easier, and set out formal terms for the referendum. Alex Samond has made it clear a referendum would have been held either way. Think about it, what would London have done? send in English troops to stop the referendum? Then people say, ‘ah, but London would have refused to accept a YES vote. Really? Just consider that for one minute, Would that increase or decrease the desire for Scottish independence?
You cannot on the one hand assert the claim of right which allows for Scotland to determine its own form of government, then on the other hand state that it must ask permission from London first. Just because pig ignorant idiots in London say such things, does not make them true. Recently the Scottish claim of right went unopposed in the house of commons. It is real, and Westminster knows it. Everything else is a pretence.
Seems events (and the bluster of London) of 2011 are being forgotten.
@Fireproofjim says: 8 November, 2018 at 11:01 pm:
” … The Telegraph tomorrow is headlining a story that the EU is demanding that a deal must include continuing fishing rights for EU boats in U.K. waters.”
Yes! I commented on that days ago. The Telegraph is a bit late with the news. If memory serves the item I commented upon reported that, I think it was 12, EU member states that fish in, “UK waters”, (probably means Scottish), were threatening to veto and deal that prevented them getting access to those UK, (Scottish), waters.
That translates as 12 EU member states could have one of two different ways of looking at the Scottish independence movement. One is that they want the UK to remain in the EU so support a Brexit deal that keeps freedom of access in the deal.
The other is that they will support the deal I’ve suggested for a long time. That is that the EU tells the United KINGDOM it is not a country but a bipartite kingdom and one partner, Scotland, has voted to remain while the other, England, voted to leave.
So those 12 members, each with a veto, could vote for Scotland to remain as the legacy member while England gets what England voted for – to leave.
Thing is that legally the United Kingdom is indeed not a country but is a two kingdom partnership with two, equally sovereign, partner kingdoms.
Here’s a September article on the subject of EU fishing in UK waters:-
link to independent.co.uk
link to indyref2.scot
link to randompublicjournal.com
link to politico.eu
link to irishtimes.com
Here’s a brief take on the leaked letter from Theresa May to the DUP courtesy of the @SamCoatesTimes story.
link to twitter.com
link to uk.businessinsider.com
From Brexit experts to Grenfell inspectors, non-government organisations are being told not to create ‘adverse publicity’
link to archive.is
On the Rev’s twitter feed, someone described Wings as: “indy fer sun readers.” (sic)
What a terrific compliment, because, and I speak as an experienced journalist of nearly 50-years’ standing, while the Sun isn’t perfect, and I don’t agree with a lot of what it says – the bottom line is, the Sun is still run by journalists. Rupert Murdoch is a journalist at heart.
As a freelance, if you punt a story to the Sun, they double-check it before they use it. The Record does not, indeed, the Record is more-likely to put their own spin on the story without consulting you, the original author.
I will admit here, one or two of the top guns in the Sun in Scotland, I worked with at local papers when they were on the way up – they are thoroughly professional.
Notice how seldom the Rev has to debunk Sun stories, compared to the frequency with which he has to debunk stories from the “better” papers, such as the Herald, Scotsman, Mail, etc.
The Sun is successful, so too is Wings. Because, at the end of the day, they get the basics right.
PM promising all things to all people on Brexit – Nicola Sturgeon
link to archive.is
Retailers shut 2,700 shops in first half of the year
link to archive.is
link to peterabell.blog
Don’t forget, Outlaw King released today
link to netflix.com
The greens will muck up Independence. The most unpopular Party with the most unpopular policies. A minority pressure group. They renege on green policies. Waste public money like there is no tomorrow. Enabling their unionist sychophants. Their constant (unelected) illogical, irrational attacks on the SNP will cost Independence support. FIfth columnists? A total irrelevant nuisance. They talk the talk but do not walk the walk. Ideologically blinkered.
From a Green prospective. Norway wealth based on Oil. A sovereign fund fleecing poorer places. Ideologically incompatable with Green politics but championing it.
Percentage of Muslims in population. 5% England. 1.5% Scotland. 1.25%? Wales. NI 0.25% (the DUP repressionists minority).
UK 4.5% of the population. 1/3 of a % proportion in Scotland compared to rest of the UK. Muslims do not smoke or drink/drug. Healthier and happier. Less criminal.
The Tory/unionists Westminster farce will continue on wrecking and ruining the UK/world economy until there is a GE (soon). To get them out of their mess. A GE they can lose.
The Labour unionists and LibDem equally useless, totally, ignorant incompetents. Do not have a clue. They obviously do not want the poison chalice. Supporting the Tories at every opportunity or abstaining, They could have voted the evel Tories down in September 2017. The LibDems did not even turn up and Labour incompetents (now getting deselected) voted with the Tories. Field, Hoey etc. Having reneged they are now complaining about the Tories measures. ie Sanctioning and starving people worldwide. Total hypocrites.
The Tories supported by Labour/LibDems cut £13Billion a year from essential services. NHS/Education welfare from 2015 intended till 2020. The tax revenue take is up £95Billion. From 2016 – £533Billion to 2017 – £628Billion (+ £92Billion other revenues is that included?). There was absolutely no need for ‘Austerity’. None at all. It cost more.
‘Austerity’ costs more for other services. The £Billions being wasted on Brexit is extraordinary. A complete and utter indefensible policy. Beyond belief. The totally ignorant incompetent Tories cost more.
Scottish Law is separate forever under the terms of the Act of Union. Break that Law without agreement. The Terms are broken. Scotland was supposed to be treated equally under the Terms? Iraq, Lockerbie and Dunblane kept secret for 100 years, under the Official Secrets. The Westminster unionists try to hide their criminality.
.
More total bollox from SNP depute FM Swinney. Social liberal, virtue signaling sentimental stuff like this is getting in the way of the very serious and arduous business of acquiring knowledge and intellectual skills. An independent Scotland needs people with sophisticated intellect and the imagination to use it.
The current SNP leadership is plainly fiddling while the city burns. We need much more than this tendentious social tinkering.
link to thenational.scot
@Socratese MacSporran
‘indy for Sun readers’
Which is exactly what it is, though I’m sure whoever said that intended it as an insult. Along the lines of a Leask ‘types’ thing. The aim though is to be popular with purpose. Y’know, without the dumbing down bit and PHWOOAAAR factor. Wings is intelligent, professional, easily digested and thoroughly researched. That’s all folk ever asked for and Wings hits the spot.
Seems all sorts of folk out there love to pigeonhole people. In my experience that’s a bad idea and really doesn’t win you friends or indeed a friendly ear. Mind you, yer average Britnat really isn’t looking to make friends with Wings. Merely eradicate the very thought of it and the author.
As for those folk in the indy movement who don’t like Wings? Well they don’t have to like the author, but they should appreciate and respect the product, the effort and the readership. Or maybe their indy Scotland isn’t for us ‘sun readers’?
Worth a thought.
Is anybody else having problems with archived articles? For the past few days I get a “DNS Resolution Error” each time I try to open an archived link.
@ Tatu 3 archive is working fine for me.
Macart
Excellent comment.
I feel a guid few of Wings’ detractors in the independenc movement are our 21st century version of Burns’ “Unco Guid.”
‘Holy Willie’ lives, convinced his version of independence is the right one; they are: “A burning and a shining light tae a’ this place.” Praying that, when Independence comes the Lord will remember them: “wi’ mercies temporal and divine, that I for grace and gear may shine.”
Over slept ah bit but Lorraine hud There Will Be Blue Shy’s Over playing on tv Oh goody good ah hiv a couple of washes tae dey, ah hope there’s nae Spitfires buzzin the sky’s .
Morning All .
Ottomanboi says:
9 November, 2018 at 8:43 am
More total bollox from SNP depute FM Swinney. Social liberal, virtue signaling sentimental stuff like this is getting in the way of the very serious and arduous business of acquiring knowledge and intellectual skills. An independent Scotland needs people with sophisticated intellect and the imagination to use it.
Don’t bother applying . . .
Brexit is a total, f.cking catastrophe, talking about it damaging the economy is like saying the Titanic was damaged.
@Ottomanboi says: 9 November, 2018 at 8:43 am:
” … More total bollox from SNP depute FM Swinney. Social liberal, virtue signaling sentimental stuff like this is getting in the way of the very serious and arduous business of acquiring knowledge and intellectual skills.”
Aye!
Richt!
Yon SNP is muckle BAAAAAAAAD! So they are. Mibbies wi sud aa vote Tory or mibbies extreme left wing or jist yon afu guid Labour lot?
Aye!
Richt!
Yon SNP wull no get us aa intil independence.
Aye!
Richt!
Nana says
May in letter to foster … “I am clear that I could not accept there being any circumstances or conditions in which that ‘backstop to the backstop’, which would break up the UK customs territory, could come in to force. “
I agree, the wording is probably significant. May is not rejecting the real backstop, just saying she would not accept it effectively breaking up the UK.
The real backstop as agreed in December is an essential for the EU. The EU might accept some wholly shite about temp UK wide customs union which the Tories try to call a backstop. However, the real one must stand.
So, when trade talks (full of attempted cherry picking) get stuck in two years time, the Tory ‘kid on’ backstop will kick in for a short time after the transition period. And after that the real EU permanent backstop kicks in. At that point there will be a border in the Irish Sea.
DUP fears are well founded (from their perspective). Something has to be thrown under the bus! The Tories (from their own perspective) will sacrifice the DUP and NI will move every closer to the Rep,,
Does May really believe this can be avoided by achieving a wonderful trade deal with single market access but no regulatory compliance? Well, so far they have tried to say that is what they will achieve, even when the EU says no, repeatedly. Foster knows this and holds little hope the UK will get such a deal. Then it’s backstop and a mid sea border.
Does it matter? Only in the sense May has to get her Withdrawal Agreement through WM!
Tatu @8;51am
Depends on your error message.
Change DNS settings on router?
Archive.is doesn’t play nice with Cloudflare DNS servers (deliberately – they don’t like Cloudflare for reasons) so if you or you ISP uses them, that could be the issue.
Failing that PC maybe cached a bad lookup. Use “flushdns” and try again (you may get better mileage release/renew your ip. address before restart also)
See here:
link to bit.ly
@ScotsRenewables says: 9 November, 2018 at 9:15 am:
… Ottomanboi says:
9 November, 2018 at 8:43 am
More total bollox from SNP depute FM Swinney. Social liberal, virtue signaling sentimental stuff like this is getting in the way of the very serious and arduous business of acquiring knowledge and intellectual skills. An independent Scotland needs people with sophisticated intellect and the imagination to use it.”
Don’t bother applying . . .
Nail!- Head! – Whack!
When it is time to vote on Brexit, the decisive factor will be bribery.
Such is democracy in the UK in the 21st century.
link to bloomberg.com
@ Ronnie Anderson, the shelters were Anderson inspired tae!
Cue, the “All Clear!” siren!
Annie Wells MSP – Exclusion from Holyrood Statement:-
link to youtube.com
Robert, thanks for the explanation and the links. I imagine there are quite a few non native Scots residents who read Wings, and while familiar with some of the basic history of Scotland, do not know the finer details.
The National
I went into a BP garage this morning about 8.45am to get some petrol and pick up a Copy of the National. No National to seen anywhere. There was of course a choice of approx a dozen Britnat papers. I asked at the counter are you sold out to be told that “we do not stock the National”. I asked why to be told “no idea”. I pointed out that my local BP garage stocks it as I often get a copy there – (but most of the time if I do not go in early in the morning there are none left). At this point the atmosphere from behind the counter went sub zero.
I then went in to a newsagent about 15 mins later from which I have bought a National previously. No Nationals.
Two thoughts come to mind.
1. It can be bloody annoying and difficult to get a copy.
2. Britnats seem to be going out their way to prevent people seeing the National. They want complete control of the media. SO MUCH FOR A FREE PRESS.
I am so sick of Britnats.
A UK Government spokeswoman said: “We are confident that we will secure a deal with the EU that works for all parts of the UK, including Scotland.”
“We have been clear that the whole of the UK will be leaving the single market and the customs union.”
How many times a day does this same guff get peddled in the papers?
It’s all getting very monotonous.
Breeks 5.15 am
Agree.
I cannot imagine that the legal heads ( at least two QC’s and other lawyers plus our Law Lords) involved in our challenge to the notion of establishing whether Article 50 can be withdrawn are chasing after a win purely to turn round and say – ‘ok that’s that stopped, so what do we do now, we’ve effectively removed the SNP’s reason to call Indy ref 2, have a good Christmas see you in 2019.’
There are no N.Irish or Welsh voices in this fight because they are part of the Kingdom of England and cannot ‘rebel’ – their fate is sealed as England is making their decisions.
Surely the only argument we can use at the ECJ is – Scotland voted to Remain. Scotland is one half of the Treaty that created the United Kingdom. We are being dragged out against our will and we come to the ECJ because our Scots judiciary, whose legality and superiority is enshrined in the said Treaty of Union ( it’s superiority to the so-called UK Supreme Court has just been demonstrated), have said this requires clarification.
The Treaty of Union is an International Treaty and as such we are turning to the accepted EU arbiter to adjudicate.
If we win this case there could be utter turmoil and carnage at WM and I imagine Nicola will then have proven that the WM attitude to Scotland is so domineering that it constitutes a material change of great gravity such that may annul the Treaty….fingers crossed.
Meanwhile PM May is desperately trying to shovel all this through before Nov 27th so that the Article 50 decision is redundant. Let’s hope the selfish Brexiteers create such a stooshie that May’s plans are derailed or at least significantly delayed.
Only 18 sleeps to go!
Cubby
I went into a local shop where I often buy the weekday National, hoping to get the Sunday National – nada. When i asked if they were sold out they said, we don’t get it on a Sunday.They will now!
Big shout out to Ahmed at Craig’s Newsagents in Strathaven – always stocks enough copies of The National so that those of us who don’t get into town till afternoon still get our copy.
manandboy says:
I must confess I was surprised how few BritNat party MPs actually have a position on Brexit based on firmly held views and principles! The vast majority are just voting fodder.
The MSM spend a lot of time focusing on those who have a position, but that seems to be no more than a few dozen each way among Lab and Con!
If May can get a Withdrawal Agreement through WM, it will be with Labour rebel assistance or abstention.
From an IndyRef2 standpoint, if Labour are seen to have failed to stop a hard or blind Brexit, then that weakens their status in Scotland even further. BT1 was almost completely fronted by Labour. BT2 might end up being little more than dodgy Facebook advertisers!
@Robert Louis,
Sorry to be pedantic Robert ,but legally you are wrong.
The 2014 referendum was held because the government’s of Westminster and Scotland agreed to it. The appropriate legislation was then passed at Westminster to let the referendum proceed.
Now we come to the crux of the matter. Nicola has already asked for a section 30 order to hold a further referendum, which May has refused. Nicola has perused May about this to no avail.
Every legal expert in the land knows what the problem is, and the only way to solve it. It must go to court to establish the rights and LEGAL entitlements of the Scottish people, because although we all know our rights,it is not legally documented anywhere.
This whole business must have a legal basis on which we proceed. The SNP are laying the groundwork for just such a decision with the Continuity Bill and the article 50 case in the ECJ.
It has long been disputed about Scotland and the difference in Sovereignty between us and England. Perhaps we are now heading to a place that very issue will come to a head.
Bob Mack says:
Was it not Michael Forsyth who argued that devolution was a threat to the Union because at some point a case could be put forward that if the people of Scotland say Holyrood is their chosen sovereign representation then that would stand up? For him it was a danger, for us it may be THE opportunity.
Re the Article 50 reversal.
Nana’s link to this
link to archive.is
indicates more layers of motivation.
Not only would a legal revocation be easier than a negotiated revocation.
The government of the day at Westminster would be able to call it – if they had a majority.
In theory they could make it a free vote – Parliament superceding government and all that – but that’s surely unlikely.
I wonder if the government opposed this in court to appease the brexiteers while secretly hoping it succeeds!
@Galamcennalath,
Precisely. Scotland has always been run by Unionist compliant serfs of one type or another. I think Forsyth foresaw the possible rise of the SNP who were not as compliant.
He knew this would eventually create a Constitutional crisis at some point as the SNP would question things meekly accepted for hundreds of years. That has come to pass. The final hurdle is exposing our rights as a people,and Sovereignty of individual Scots is the most powerful of those.
Even if the SNP fail in another referendum, the fact that it is made legal and public that the two Kingdoms have different Sovereignty gives Westminster all sorts of problems. This is why Westminster has not challenged in court about issues of Sovereignty. Even in the verdict last year re Gina Miller et Al the judges expressed the belief that the Sovereign will of Scots was expressed at Westminster,but they studiously avoided mentioning the Sovereignty of individual scots, Telling!!
The UK in fact becomes ungovernable if Scotland makes different choices from England.
Imagine a scenario where Westminster proposes a law and the Scottish people reject it.Sound familiar?
Mike cassidy. I think this has been may’s agenda all along. Then she can blame the Scots .
Anent, nae Nationals, there’s a bit concerning this very problem in today’s National, if U can get hold of one!
This is what the Court of Session in Scotland are asking the ECJ to rule on:
The full “Order” to be put in front of the ECJ can be read here:
link to curia.europa.eu
The arguments that the petitioners will use in court were made available yesterday and a link to the pdf can be found on the page below:
link to goodlawproject.org
Meg merrilees says:
9 November, 2018 at 10:20 am
‘Meanwhile PM May is desperately trying to shovel all this through before Nov 27th so that the Article 50 decision is redundant’
Possibly May’s withdrawal vote timetable could be delayed beyond the ECJ verdict date by MPs using arcane HoC procedures to waste time and disrupt?
Ottomanboi
It is, as they say, nice to be nice. It makes the world go round.
Those whose world view eschews niceness don’t make the world go round and more and more people are weary of it which is why the time is right to lead from the front. Other countries will follow.
Apparently, the Brexiteers are already labelling May’s shady deal to be announced on 19th November as “BRINO”.
Brexit In Name Only
Oh Dear, Mrs May.
This can’t end well, can it?
@ Thepnr @ 10.18am
Yep Thepnr, currently we have journalists , politicians , Yoons who are consistently rolled out like a tag team of tits.
They are invited to comment on not only Brexit but Scottish independence. They are effectively deployed to display their ignorance , lies and bias against the very topic they are there to supposedly discuss or write about .
Their lack of integrity and knowledge is so evident it is embarrassing to even contemplate that anyone could accept the credibility in their arguments and support their reasoning as being both honest and objective.
Like opinion polls the above mentioned people are not there to inform but to influence opinion which is why they rely on the fear , ignorance and prejudice of certain sections of society as the main factors in their arguments.
These arguments and tactics they use time and time again is something they are confident will resonate with the very people they target. The fact that they are never challenged properly is why we, in Scotland, now find ourselves not an independent country AND a country being dragged out of the EU against our will.
The tag team of tits work together to ensure that it is most definitely NOT the so called ‘democratic will of the people’ that prevails but the tag team of tits undemocratic will that prevails.
Their control and manipulation of those in society who are willing to be influenced and manipulated by them ensures their continuing success in controlling and dictating the destiny of us all.
However irrespective of the arguments they present we all know on here that Scotland does have a way to escape the madness perpetrated by the tag team of the tits who rally against us…….as does the tag team of tits…..and that’s what really really worries them.
Brexit in whatever form us going to displease a lot of people. Remain is probably the only option that could muster a majority now.
A vote to unify the Tory party is likely to have the knives out for years.
Surprise Surprise – sound problems on BBC when Nicola gets to speak at IoM conference.
Also – the caption bills her as SNP Party Leader and not Scottish First Minister.
Brino – Brexit in name only
to be supported by
Lino – Labour in name only
What way will Ian Murray vote? – or will he duck the issue and abstain?
Last word from me on the ruling by the ECJ on Article 50.
The hearing is scheduled for 9 am on 27 November 2018 and the Good Law Project website says it is “expecting a decision before Christmas”.
How long will the expedited procedure take?
link to researchbriefings.parliament.uk
Which all makes it highly unlikely that the ruling will come soon enough to make any difference to the “meaningful vote”.
Unless of course that vote doesn’t take place until after the ruling has been made and before the deadline for a vote of 21st Jan 2019 that is written into the Withdrawal Bill as being the last day that Parliament must have a vote, deal or no deal.
For the first time ever, I will attend an armistice memorial service this year – I will even wear a poppy.
Dedication of the Poppies
Cross of Sacrifice
Morningside Cemetery
Saturday 10th November at 2pm
But from next year – no more. A hundred years of memorials is enough: at some point, history is as much about forgetting as it is remembering.
@Gus 1940,
Yes,saw that Gus. Every other member of the panel no problem, but all the electrics fail when Nicola speaks. BBC are enemies of Scotland, without doubt. They will silence the SNP by hook or crook.
Brexit!
Britnats-
Ridiculous
Empire
Xenophobes
Initiating
Tragedy
We saw what Gus 1940 seen on BBC news 15 mins ago , Nicola starts to speak and the line goes wonky and is abandoned. That was blatant , they are denying us the oxygen of publicity whenever and wherever they can. I hope that someone can capture those moments and let the rest of the Indy movement see for themselves how disgraceful they are becoming..
Meg Merrilees@10.22am
Well done you.
What I didn’t say in my previous post is that it clearly isn’t BP policy not to stock the national so based on the guy behind the counters attitude I suspected that he was not putting them out for sale on the newstands. Won’t be getting my petrol from that garage again.
Cubby says:
“The National”
———————–
I can remember in the good old days when the papers used to have private sellers on the streets.
A sandwich board with the headline of the day/hour beside them and then a dozen papers over the arm. You gave them the price (keep the change pal..), took one and went your merry way.
If the distributors are being choosy (shall we say obstructing) which outlets get how many papers, if at all, then the National should start getting folk to sell directly on the streets. As well as over the YES groups etc.
Would be interesting to see how many would then be sold when it’s on open view to the public.
Do they still do this in Scotland..? (I’m a foreigner..) 🙂
David P says:
9 November, 2018 at 12:58 pm
For the first time ever, I will attend an armistice memorial service this year – I will even wear a poppy.
Dedication of the Poppies
Cross of Sacrifice
Morningside Cemetery
Saturday 10th November at 2pm
But from next year – no more. A hundred years of memorials is enough: at some point, history is as much about forgetting as it is remembering.
Well said. 🙂
Some twerp last night was having a go at the REV on twitter.
– everyone talks a good pagger. Then the fists fly.
Some years ago, about 2012, I started to notice 2 things
1 – the appalling bullshit being written in the papers about Scotland, the SNP and Independence (I stopped reading the MSM about then)
2 – 90% of it was relatively easy to REBUT if you simply read the full story, or checked basic facts. Sometimes you needed elementary logic, mostly not.
I started to keep my own little personal journal of “news bullshit” – and as it started to grow I thought – “should I elevate it to a blog?” – this could be a service to independence.
Then I discovered WINGS and thought
– this guy seems to have it covered!
Being a lazy git, realising what an all-encompassing, on-it-every day thing this could become, I stepped back and sighed a long relief.
I WOULDN’T WANT THE REVS JOB
– certainly I am glad I don’t do social media as it takes over your life. I would probably be banned from twitter anyway as I am, in natural state, quite nasty. I play nice on WINGS, relatively speaking.
They hate the REV because he is not a full-on advocate of identity politics (- didya see yesterdays story about the “trans-age” guy? FFS!) – he is liberal and tolerant, but he is not a mad zealot and puts it in perspective. His article – the buckaroo principle – possibly his best.
If Scottish Independence becomes a wholly-captured ground of the far/fake/pseudo/PC/identity “left” then there will NEVER be independence because in the world of real people, not a twitter or byres road coffee-shop echo chamber, these idiots would be lucky to poll 10% of the vote. (Feels a 1000 word rant coming on … no, stop … calm down)
Thanks again REV – you’ve saved me a lot of wasted time over the years.
The bickering about the REV reminds me a lot of how the art snobs sneer at Jack Vettriano – he’s a self-taught guy who just did it, became successful on his own and made a lot of dough, thus puncturing their notions of elitism and intellectual snobbery – he is not kosher, no RSA or St Martins.
The professional journalists who support Independence (allegedly) see themeselves as a “salon” – but they are really just pseuds and makeweights – the 105 IQ people with a copy of “L’Etranger” on the bookshelf, never read nor opened, the spine carefully creased to make adequate impression – there is much more brainpower on WINGS BTL comments, so again, thanks boys and girls, for all your “notes in the margins”.
@Socratese Macsporran
Well quoted. 🙂
The sooner some folk grasp the idea that an indy Scotland’s population is made up of many threads of opinion, the better.
All of us together isn’t a serving suggestion. It’s what it takes to make that population.
Just watched the Outlaw King.
It struck me that not that much has changed politically.
Still bribes available for those who’d profess their fealty
and banishment, exclusion and persecution (in all its forms) for those who don’t.
At this time, the English campaign in Europe is not going well and we as a colonised peoples are just to accept what the will of our feudal masters is for the sake of ‘the country’. (what country’s that?)
The film critic, Peter Bradshaw gave it a thumbs up (believe me, that is saying something)
and this serf here says worth a looksee. (while doffing cap)
From the Introduction by the Petitioners to the ECJ:
“Under Scots law, a declarator is a remedy whereby a right or a legal status can be judicially ascertained and declared. Since the question raise before the national court was one of EU law, the Petitiners asked the Scottish court to make a reference to this Court under Article 267 TFEU. This Court’s answer is necessary to allow the Scottish court to pronounce an appropriate declarator under national law.”
I don’t really know what it is but the above passage from the Petition to the ECJ gives me the feeling that the whole Scots sovereignty issue is about to unravel and hit WM’s assumed sovereignty over Scots right on the whatsems.
Just a feeling.
Can we just end this debate about sovereignty once and for all?
Here is the dictionary definition:-
The bolding is by me. The point is there are no degrees of sovereignty – you either are sovereign or you are not sovereign.
Under the independent laws of Scotland the people of Scotland are legally sovereign.
The concept of the monarch of Scots or the monarch of England, or indeed of the Monarch of the kingdom of England’s legally delegated Parliament of England has no concept in Scots law.
If we thus elect as our representatives in parliament of Scotland and a majority of us declare anything we want them to do then they must do so because we are legally sovereign and they are our subjects.
Unlike Westminster where the Monarch of England is legally sovereign but was made to delegate the Royal sovereignty to the Parliament of the Kingdom of England. Which parliament was permanently dissolved in 1707 and replaced at Westminster by the spanking new parliament of the bipartite United Kingdom.
That United Kingdom parliament is not, though, the Parliament of the Kingdom of England. It is the Parliament of the bipartite United Kingdom that is supposedly shared by the only two kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union, 1706/7.
Yet although there is no legally elected Parliament of the country, or the kingdom, of England, Westminster rules as if it were the de facto Parliament of the country of England that has devolved English sovereign powers to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
It really is an illegal set-up.
“Can we just end this debate about sovereignty once and for all?”
What debate?
Just watched Outlaw King on Netflix.
SPOILER … WE WON !
Oh Jeez! You really couldn’t make this stuff up.
On the one hand you have the hard brexiteers pusshing for the hardest of no deal scenarios and all for the obvious reasons. On the other you have the Europhiles who, whilst accepting that ‘brexit means brexit’, would happily do any deal that keeps the UK in (at the very least) the CU. You also have the EU itself who really don’t need the imposed headache of the Irish border problem, but will do what they have to do in order to support their member state the Republic of Ireland.
Oh, and let’s not forget the constitutional shitstorm Scotland’s population can and will bring to bear when we know just how bad the outcomes from this epic bout of self harm really are.
Then, just for the laffs and waiting in the wings for whatever outcome, you have a whole load of nations the UK have either pissed off or hope to deal with, looking for their pound of flesh and using their pull with the WTO to rain on May’s parade.
There is literally NOT ENOUGH POPCORN.
@Robert Peffers,
Knowing we are sovereign and having it legally proven are two different things. I accept all your knowledgeable postings,but having it proved beyond doubt in a recognised international court of law is surely desirable.
That inflicts enormous damage on Westminster. Legally recognised damage.
Completely o/t
One motorway bridge, one hand held sparkly new style YES flag on a pole, one fantastic reception!
Don’t want to give the whereabouts as I try to keep it low level and random, suffice to say it was over the M90. Grins!
Wear our badges, fly our flags, normalise YES. If we don’t believe no one else will!
@Socrates MacSporran
Thanks for that about the Sun, for some odd reason it’s really cheered me up. Been one of those weeks, starts off excellently with a 9 year old Corsa D MOT failure corroded subframe being replaced for nought by the Vauxhall dealer thanks to a tip from my excellent local garage who did themselves out of business to provide excellent customer service to me, then went to the other extreme with a decision to move from the current business dedicated server which would have expired at midnight, giving myself all sorts of stupid pressure for the sake of trying to save a 1 month renewal on the old one, so I decided to renew for 1 month to give myself a month to do it and stop myself getting a heart attack or worse (!). The things we do to complicate our own lives. Jings, it’s complicated enough.
I’m now taking the rest of the day off 🙂
Maybe I should get the Sun – is it still 10p?
Confused @ 13:37:
Damn right. Except they would likely get no more than 0.1% of the vote.
But if this kind of PC do-goodery from the existing powers-that-be gives people the impression that an independent Scotland is going to be an interfering nanny state, we’ll also never get independence.
Bob Mack at 1112am,
Yes, all well and good. The point is however, that Westminster’s approval was NOT essential. Yes, it made things easier, but it was not essential.
@ Robert J Sutherland, Confused
Agreed, we and those who seek a lefty liberal agenda don’t have our battles to pick so why give our opponents high calibre ammunition?
Education, especially sex education is a minefield. Indy is close, these issues can wait. We need kids who can write, read, count and express themselves fluently. Give them equal opportunity to do that and they will be given the life skills to express their own individuality.
Children are usually pretty savvy when it comes to matters of mind and body. They don’t need bearded hippy’s telling them what to think, neither do they need ‘ outraged of Milton Keynes telling them what’s right and proper.
Sky News: breaking
Jo Johnson resigns as transport minister with call for new Brexit referendum.
Transport minister, Jo Johnson, resigns over ‘vassalage or chaos’
My God! There’s two of them!
Seeing how this Indy Ref / S30 is coming out again, here’s a post by Gavin Anderson and others:
link to ukconstitutionallaw.org
Note these three names who co-signed
Tom Mullen, Professor of Law, University of Glasgow
Stephen Tierney, Professor of Constitutional Theory, University of Edinburgh
Neil Walker, Regius Professor of Public Law and the Law of Nature and Nations, University of Edinburgh. Their word is good enough for me.
Also one about the Edinburgh agreement from Christine Bell who Salmond quoted in Holyrood (she was uncommitted at the time but became a YESser):
link to scottishconstitutionalfutures.org
Outlaw King
link to thepiratebay.online
Proud cybernat@2.50pm
Totally agree.
Stop cringing people. Robert the Bruce didn’t have endless discussions about it. Scots knew they were sovereign.
Galamcennalath @3.04 Outlaw King – a good watch with the added benefit that the Britnats will hate it and get all wound up.
“To present the nation with a choice between two deeply unattractive outcomes, vassalage and chaos, is a failure of British statecraft on a scale unseen since the Suez crisis.” … Jo Johnson
Fair comment, from a Tory English Nationalist perspective.
If ‘leave’ and ‘get back control’ meant leave the single market and all that goes with it, then that means ‘Canada’. However, that also means NI taking a different route to allow the GFA to be honoured.
If ‘leave’ meant hang on to as much of the single market as they can, then that means being a satellite state on the edge of the EU. From a Brexiteer’s viewpoint Malay do vassal state is about right.
Better would be to just forget the whole thing and stay a full member with influence and power, of course.
Cubby says:
The definitely won’t like it.
@galamcennalath
Just read the piece and he didn’t miss the mark tbf. How and ever, given the nature of the UK government’s statements, legislative actions and negotiating position over the past two years?
They’re kinda backed into a byre of their own making.
A strong element of UK gov have actively pursued a no deal hard brexit since before day 1. An equally strong element, though pro EU, sought political home advantage from the same legislative acts believing that no one would be stupid enough to enact the hard brexit scenario. As for the return to empire delusions and rhetoric of both factions? 🙄
Both ends working against the middle as it were.
So many factions within government itself and each attempting to gather support by promising everything and nothing to yet further factions. The result? A hopeless boorach fit for none of them.
Then of course, you have the other parties of parliament and their fractures, swiftly followed by a hopelessly divided, ill informed and ill served society.
It’s a pickle for them right enough.
Happily, some folk have options.
Dear Macart, I don’t like popcorn. Could you suggest an acceptable alternative I can binge on?
@Bill Hume: 5.30
Crisps are OK, but I can recommend Jacobs Mini Cheddars. However, if you want to go full frontal Outlaw King then try sucking on a Carolina Reaper, the world’s hottest pepper.
@Bill Hume
I’m partial to nachos or chocolate raisins myself. 🙂
I see that the fragrant Arlene was on the news this afternoon saying that the DUP won’t support the UKGov in the upcoming Bexit HoC vote. The DUP have been thrown under a bus for the sake of a deal, and they know it.
May is surely relying on Labour support to see off the DUP and any hardline rebel Brexiteers to get this dirty deed done. One wonders if it’s desperate do-or-die from May or if she’s had private assurances. Will the abstentionist “Better Together” collaborators help the Tories out?
I buy an wear a poppy every year but only for the gulable volunteers
Who were tricked and bullied by Westminster to sacrafice their lives
In order to use up one German bullet.
For pity sake these guys were ordered to run at a bank of machine gunners
And riflemen who had clear close range sight of them.
It would be called suicide if they had made the decision themselves.
I call it murder when they are told that they will be shot by their officers
If they don’t use up German bullets aimed at them.
I’m sad and mournfull for those lives thrown away by Westminster and the devistation left behind in their homes with grieving Mothers, Wives, and Children left with no means of support.
I also remember and respect those who were mentally ill, shell shocked or concientious objectors
Who were put in front of firing squads.
There is no way on earth I’d fight a war for Westminster or England.
What did those lost lives in WW1 gain for anyone?
The Great Depresion, The Resession, Austerity, Food Banks,
Universal Discredit., 50 straight years of the rich getting richer?
It’s getting weird around here, I’d refreshed and end page comment was asking Macart what snack to binge on apart from popcorn, immediately thought: chocolate raisins and was about to just post that, refreshed the page and there was himsel’ saying just that!
Dorritos and humous is another one…if yer a byres toad type. Smirk. (cannot recommend Waitrose duchy organic humous…enough!) 😉
O/T
This week we have seen revised figures for the number of Scottish WW1 Deaths.
Over the last few years our Britnat pals have frequently tried to downplay the disparity in death rates between Scotland and the rest of the UK.
In reporting the latest figures our wonderful media have stressed the fact that the figures will include English soldiers serving in Scottish regiments.
What they omit to mention is that Scottish soldiers served in English regiments and there must be many of those not included in the figures for Scottish deaths.
It’s amazing how for the msm some things only apply in one direction.
@Robert J. Sutherland
If May does pull off a deal with the EU and Parliament vote on whatever that deal is before Xmas then I think she will lose that vote.
The Xmas recess will then be upon them from 20th Dec until 7th Jan 2019. That gives them two weeks before the deadline on the 21st Jan of a final vote on what to do in the event of a no deal Brexit.
Maybe May will be ousted in those two weeks or maybe even the government will fall and a request made for an extension to article 50 to allow for a General Election to be held.
Lots of “maybes” but I do believe that there is every chance it will all come down to that date before anything close to the way forward is decided. I’ve long given up on trying to understand what is actually going on. I don’t think anyone knows and decision time or crunch time will just keep rolling over at Westminster until forced by their own legislation to stop the ball rolling and make a decision.
The can will have hit the brick wall at the end of the alley. Only then might all the uncertainty start all over again as they turn around and start kicking the can in the opposite direction to that which brought them there in the first place.
All I’m hoping is that however this pans out then it is bad for May and her incompetent cabinet and good for those that seek Independence for Scotland. I have my fingers crossed and am comforted by the thought that even if things don’t pan out how I might hope, in the long run we will be the winners here.
@K1
Chocolate and dried fruit for the health conscious. Match made in wossiname. It’s made the shape I am today.
And round is a shape. 😎
Can any of the hive mind answer a niggling question I have regarding our Sovereignty and the supposed holding of it by the Windsors. As I understand it Elizabeth II, so styled, was neither crowned, nor anointed in the Cathedral of St Giles, merely touching the Honours of Scotland, if that is indeed the case can she or her heirs claim any right to the title King or Queen of Scots?
gus1940 @6.08pm
I remember seeing a similar report(might have been the same one) and the same comment was made about English soldiers in Scot regiments. I immediately thought the same – were no Scots in English regiments then. Nothing said by the reporter. The point just ignored. A proper report would have considered the number of English in Scots regiments and the number of Scots in English regiments.
Conclusion: incompetent report or propaganda. Take your pick.
@Alisdair
Betty Windsor was NOT even allowed to touch the Honours of Scotland.
I have posted at least twice previously on this site the Pathe newsreel of her visit to Scotland after her coronation in London.
Best to view the newsreel with sound off. Vomit inducing commentary!
link to britishpathe.com
I think what is really upsetting WM is the refusal of Scotsgov to make a mistake on timing.
WM keep kicking the can down the road, expecting pro indy supporters to scream at the Scotsgov to “get on with it”, and getting increasingly desperate when that does not happen.
Our resolve has really seemed to harden in the last couple of months, there is less and less ‘outrage’ about the SNP not calling indyref “immediately..just because”.
Folk seem to finally get it on timing.
The indy gods are smiling.
@Robert Louis,
Yes it was I’m afraid. We could bat this back and forward all night, but that would be pointless. I suggest you read the facts direct from Scotgov website at the time.
Alyn Smith’s weekly update on Brexit …
link to alynsmith.eu
Macart Hoola Hoops £2 in B&Ms 4ft for the more rotund size lol.
Snack food. Our favourite is a few oatcakes by themselves, but flavoured like cheese or black pepper.
Healthier than most things.
Need washing down. Tea to be healthy, a wee malt to be happy.
Thanks Robert, so is she? Can she? Are we missing a trick here? I am genuinely interested.
@Alisdair
Honest answer is I don’t know. I am a mere Engineer.
I think on balance she is not a “Queen of Scots”.
Lest we forget. Elizabeth Tudor got rid of “Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots”. That was the Judicial murder of an anointed Queen! Anticipate the new movie to be released in January!
Wiki gives the following
“The present Sovereign’s full style and title is “Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith” no mention of Scots there then.
One of the great unanswered questions about Brexit is what Boris Johnson’s mother thinks about it.
We’ve heard more than enough from Boris himself, both pro and anti Brexit of course, and we’ve heard from Boris’s father, we’ve heard from Boris’s sister, tonight we’re treated to Boris’s brother, and Boris’s father again… So what’s the deal with Boris’s ma?
Why the media fascination with these Bohemian architects of chaos and catastrophe?
The Johnson family, complete with media love-in, is the grotesque personification of everything that is rotten and broken with UK Establishment, from obscene privilege, inbred education, and crass Victorian Imperialist delusion, to visceral incompetence devoid of morality, which just doesn’t know when to stop…
Christmas in the Johnson household must be fraught with bickering and desperate argument trying to decide who gets to cut the turkey, and briefly be allowed to hold on to something sharp.
Thanks again Robert. I would contend that there is no such thing as a ‘mere Engineer’. As you are an Engineer, and asking of your professional knowledge, would I be wrong in thinking there has to be process for a ‘thing’ to be brought into existence and that from design through to manufacture? If so, then is the weasel words ‘…of the United Kingdom’ the crux? No process was undertaken regarding the Scots as a separate people and therefore on the dissolution of the union we become defacto a Republic?
Alisdair says:
9 November, 2018 at 6:37 pm
Can any of the hive mind answer a niggling question I have regarding our Sovereignty and the supposed holding of it by the Windsors. As I understand it Elizabeth II, so styled, was neither crowned, nor anointed in the Cathedral of St Giles, merely touching the Honours of Scotland, if that is indeed the case can she or her heirs claim any right to the title King or Queen of Scots?
Oh Alistair.. Six of the best I think…lol . Mr Peffers will be along any minute I am quite sure..
But allow me to respectfully suggest that the Windsors do not hold Scottish Sovereignty, never have, never will, indeed Lizzie herself is only monarch at all at the behest of the Sovereign people.
To quote from the Declaration of Arbroath..
“..Yet if he (King Robert) should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule.”
We Scots do not serve our monarch but instead we choose them, and our “Monarchs” serve us, and Scotland, or they face being deposed.
On this centenary commemoration of the end of WW1,we are hearing again that we should remember the sacrifice of those who fought in that war. Sacrifice it certainly was, of a generation ill-served by their supposed leaders.
We are also hearing that they died for their country, although when the survivors returned home, they found that their country did not repay them with conditions fit for those who had been through hell in such warfare. No consideration for those survivors who still suffered the effects, both physical and mental of their hideous ordeal. No homes fit for heroes.
There has been much sanctimonious cant expressed about how the young must learn of this sacrifice. Are the young being shown the poetry and the memoirs of the war poets? Are they being told the real story of that war and the generation sent to it? They are hearing the same justification for war that sent many young and unsuspecting men to war, some of them schoolboys who had lied about their age in order to go off to a great adventure.
There seems to have been some sly revisionism going on which does not refer to that ghastly war and the generational effect that it had on the society to which they returned . Distance seems to have had a nullifying effect and one hundred years later, the attitude towards war that Wilfred Owen wrote against so bitterly, which played up the idea of heroism and ignored the horror of war is beginning to surface again.
It is not a sweet and comely thing to die for one’s native land. Those who want to take their country to war should not be allowed to get away with manipulating the narrative again. As well as eliding over the real story of WW1 – the supposed war to end all wars – there is also the attempt to appropriate the feelings about WW2 which many people hold, that it was an unavoidable war, and present all subsequent military adventures, intent on regime change, as unavoidable humanitarian wars.
Sorry for ranting on to people who already know all this, but I’m getting somewhat irritated at the same old emerging attitudes from the last century being aired again.
Just finished watching Outlaw King, an enjoyable film that was a bit slow in the middle but the end made up for it. Well worth my Netflix subscription as an alternative to the telly tax.
Thought I’d check out the reviews on IMDB to see what others thought, mostly positive and the majority posted today. Some were not happy though LOL. Wonder why?
3/10
Scotland Good, England Bad
Another overly simplistic, heavily one-sided view of history. Guess the english are destined to be cinematic history’s bad guys, regardless of the truth.
Quite typically when the English use underhanded tactics it’s treachery, when the scots use underhanded tactics it’s ‘clever strategy’.
In a time where few people seem to really read their history movies have a greater responsibility to the truth, but hey, to hell with that. Let’s romanticise scottish independence!
Smells of what one might expect from a Scotland In union review 🙂
Hi Alisdair at 8:03 pm.
You typed,
“I would contend that there is no such thing as a ‘mere Engineer’.”
Thank you. As someone who was scrapped by Timex in 1993, killing my electronic engineering career, I still carry in my wallet my “Engineering Technician” card, issued by the Engineering Council.
Mind you, I have been out of it so long I wouldn’t know which end of the solder to lick.
8=)
Hi Breeks, thanks for replying. Yes I hope to hear from Mr Peffers too, my question though is not really about whether herself holds Sovereignty on our behalf of ourselves, it is more about the process whereby it is assumed she does? Can she and her supporters claim she does if she was not crowned or anointed?
Hi Brian, For a wee while I built car washes and used a solder stick, I always found that not licking the hot end was key, mind you even though it was a long time ago I like to think to myself its like riding a bike you never forget 🙂
@JGedd
I think you are absolutely not ranting on, you speak for me when you say
“the attitude towards war that Wilfred Owen wrote against so bitterly, which played up the idea of heroism and ignored the horror of war is beginning to surface again.”
Well yes it is and has been for quite a few years now, for whatever purpose other than nationalistic jingoism I do not know.
What has amazed me with just days left to remembrance Sunday though is how little it has featured in the media compared with what took centre stage throughout 2014.
Truly astonishing that the start of the great war should receive so much media coverage than the end of it on the 100th anniversary. We should of course commemorate the end of war and never the beginning.
O/T
All BBC licence payers in Scotland who love their football, stop what you’re doing now and read this. It’s that time of year again. BBC2 has a live game on right now – such a novelty in Scotland.
What team can you watch, I hear you ask. The exciting Haringey Borough FC no less – in a game of undoubted ‘national’ significance you will no doubt agree.
This really is taking the p….! I complained to the BBC about this kind of thing last year and was told there is a ‘demand’ for such FA Cup matches in Scotland!
(PS I’m still working on my powers of persuasion domestically regarding payment of the licence fee!)
I used to ride a bike; mine is a Raleigh Banana racer. With crappy mudguards. One day I will fix it. Another project for my impending retirement (if I can give up the protestant work ethic).
@Thepnr
Haven’t watched it yet, but “Quite typically when the English use underhanded tactics it’s treachery, when the scots use underhanded tactics it’s ‘clever strategy’.”
Well, they started it!
Greetings from Fiji. Hols for me.
This is choice. Enjoy. DUP going under the bus.
link to threadreaderapp.com
@
Bob Mack says:
9 November, 2018 at 3:14 pm
… but having it proved beyond doubt in a recognised international court of law is surely desirable.”
We do not have to prove it Bob Mack, as it is a recognised part of Scots law.
Furthermore, it is a recognised tenet of the United Nations that any recognisable group of people have the human right of self determination. It is also a tenet of the EU and the ECJ human rights court of justice and all members of the EU and the UN including Westminster are signed up to those two organisations.
You cannot get a more identifiable people than the Scots who are one of Europe’s oldest recognisable kingdoms/countries.
So that isn’t the problem we needs solve. The first being a verifiable majority of the people of Scotland wanting Scotland recognised as one of the only two kingdoms in the bipartite United Kingdom.
Legally, and in spite of the Westminster Establishments centuries of adverse propaganda, the United kingdom is exactly how it is described, “on the tin”. it is factually a monarchy composed of two distinct kingdoms – and only two distinct kingdoms.
That Westminster propaganda has been to describe the set-up as variously, a single country, a unified single kingdom, an empire and even as just England.
However, it is and has remained since 1 May 1707, A united kingdom named originally, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain”, and after what is erroneously called, “The Anglo-Irish Treaty of Union”, which is actually NOT a treaty of Union and in any case the term, “Anglo”, means only England – not either Britain or the United Kingdom.
However, I agree with you that the task is to convince the World’s powers that the United Kingdom is not a country called the United Kingdom.
Nor is it a country called Britain. It shouldn’t prove overly difficult as the very title it gave itself includes the description, “Kingdom”, and historically even England itself was at one time composed of many smaller kingdoms.
Similarly Britain is a geographic term for an archipelago and all the islands within it are not parts of the United Kingdom, (except for the monarch her self’s personal kingdom which includes Jersey, Guernsey and Man). Britain also contains the partitioned country of Ireland where only the northern part is part of the United Kingdom.
Anyway, the SG and the Scottish legal system are already working on getting the matter into the World Court, (ECJ), and that before even an indyref2 or a formal declaration that the Treaty of Union is over. Now all we need is a proven majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland to make it all happen.
BTW O/T: any of you guys seen this?
Click the ‘minus’ button (zoom out) for context. It was in ‘The National’ earlier this week.
link to google.co.uk!3m1!1e3
Given the Hanoverians were offered the UK throne, following Queen Anne’s death, on the basis that George I was the son of the first Protestant Stewart they could find, it had surely – once the unpleasantness of 1715 and 1745 had been got out of the way and the Scots were a conquered people – that whatever Hanoverian succeeded to the throne of England, well, he or she would be acceptable to the now cowed Scots.
It almost-certainly never occured to the English or the Germans to think, maybe the Scots do things differently.
Certainly, given the make-up of the Scottish MPs in 1952, when the Queen ascended the throne – 28 Conservatives, 5 Conservative and National Liberal, 1 Liberal and Conservative and 33 Labour, it would never occur to them not to have HM accepted as Queen of Scots.
Although, we should remember, the Establishment thinking back then was of one sovereign, crowned at Westminster, and, if the Jocks wanted some kind of ceremony, well, she can be offered the Scottish crown, nod in acceptance and that’s that – the Jocks don’t really matter, till the next time we need them to sort out some particularly sticky situations in the next war.
@yesindyref2
Yeah, two can play at that game!
Well I must type, that’s the first time I have posted a Google Maps link that has screwed up.
If you click on the link, go to the lower left and click on the satellite view, then zoom in.
@Brian Doonthetoon
It hasn’t screwed up, just click satellite and a big picture of a plane appears in the centre os the screen that looks as if it’s underwater just off Portobello Beach lol.
It’s a reflection of a plane flying above the water that the satellite took from an angle NOT directly above the plane therefore it didn’t pick up the plane. Just my guess 🙂
@Brian Doonthetoon
I suppose I am to see a submerged two engine jet?
Shurley a google techy mishtake…. peculiar though.
I heard a few students talk about similar things on google a few years ago but never pondered much on it.
Hi Thepnr.
I thought the explanation of the plane being caught by the satellite in flight was a decent explanation.
It’s a lot clearer in Google Maps using Safari than it is in Firefox.
@Brian Doonthetoon
I wonder if these Google satellite images are enhanced in some way by computer before being uploaded. I’m using Firefox and the image isn’t that clear because it shows the wave patterns over the top of the plane which is why I thought it was a reflection.
Not necessarily true then, you can’t always believe what you might see with your own eyes, I should have known that 🙂
@Thepnr
it isnt a b52…………..its a b17
link to google.fr:
Robert Kerr No mention of England either but the UK includes both England and Scotland and of course the Queen is a direct descendant of Mary Queen of Scots anyway through her ancestor Sophia Electress of Hanover whose mother was the daughter of James VI of Scotland and 1st of England whose mother in turn was Mary Queen of Scots
Robert Peffers 55% of Scottish voters endorsed Scotland remaining in the Union in 2014, indeed Scottish voters are the only voters of the 3 nations of the UK and the province of Northern Ireland to have ever directly endorsed remaining part of the UK and voted against becoming independent
link to christina-mckelvie.org
Diabolical choices on Renewable energy by Westminster, revealing their hostile and vindictive attitude toward Scotland.
Hail Alba
Without fanfare, the era of Theresa May is over. The voters now know that her every word is a lie, in one form or another, and that every question is casually ignored in favour of a scripted message.
May is dressed from head to toe in dishonesty and banal incompetence, and is no longer of use.
So also the rest of the British Establishment.
Oh dear. It looks as though the Tory government can kiss goodbye to any hopes of a November EU Summit.
New blow to Theresa May as EU leaders demand scrutiny of Brexit deal
The development makes it less likely that a November Brexit summit could be convened. EU officials have privately said that 25 November is the last possible date for a summit, and that it would need to be called early next week to allow preparations in EU capitals. May’s chief Brexit adviser, Olly Robbins, is expected to visit Brussels on Sunday given the lack of time to find agreement.
link to archive.fo
@HYUFD says: 9 November, 2018 at 9:53 pm:
” … indeed Scottish voters are the only voters of the 3 nations of the UK and the province of Northern Ireland to have ever directly endorsed remaining part of the UK and voted against becoming independent.”</i?
Awa and learn some proper geography, HYUFD.
There are not three nations in the United Kingdom. There are four. Northern Ireland is part of the politically partitioned nation/country of Ireland and the whole nation/country of Ireland first of all had the Holy Roman See appoint the King of the Kingdom of England as Lord of Ireland. Then, after the Holy Roman See fell out with the English monarchy, the English monarch forced the Parliament of Ireland to pass the Crown of Ireland Act in 1542:-
Furthermore, Wales was also annexed by the Monarch of England after defeating the last native Prince of Wales. This was done by a Royal Proclamation – The Stature of Rhuddlan 1284.
The United Kingdom is just that – a two party treaty of union between two equally sovereign kingdoms and, as such, when a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland decide they have had enough of Westminster’s underhanded cheating then the Treaty of Union will be rescinded and the union will end.
It will end with the Status Quo Ante of a return to being The two independent kingdoms that signed the Treaty of Union.
Scotland will NOT be leaving the United Kingdom – Scotland will be ending the United Kingdom and that leaves the Kingdom of England, not the rUnited Kingdom.
@HYUFD
“No mention of England either”. indeed and no mention of Scotland.
The discussion was about Scots as in “Queen of Scots”. You conflate people with countries. How sad!
I usually scroll past your crap but i noticed my name and read on.
Do you have a name?
Yes, Dick.
Robert Peffers No, the Republic of Ireland is a nation and majority Catholic, Northern Ireland is a province of the UK and majority Protestant and Unionist with a majority of its inhabitants descended from Presbyterian Scottish settlers.
Wales has had MPs at Westminster since the Laws of Wales Acts in the 15th century and the Principality of Wales is still represented in Wales by the Prince of Wales ie King Charles. Wales has always had a Unionist First Minister ever since the Welsh Assembly was created in 1999 but only a bare majority of Welsh backed that Assembly anyway in the 1997 referendum, 50.3% to 49.7% opposed. 55% of Scots gave a clear endorsement of Scotland being a part of the UK despite the attempts of you and other Yes voting Nats to push independence
Robert Kerr Yes, the Queen is a direct descendant of Mary ‘Queen of Scots’
ie the future King Charles
It only gets worse for May and her cronies in the cabinet. Last weekend we were told “a deal was imminent”. Turns out not to be the case and if anything we are even further away away from a deal now than we were then.
May’s Brexit Deal Suffers Major Setback After EU ‘Rejects’ UK Arbitration Mechanism
link to huffingtonpost.co.uk
On and on it goes, YOU the general public are being strung along for as long as they can. Their aim is to make you sick of the whole Brexit clusterfuck. Then they want you to forget all about it and “get back to normal”.
Get back in your box in other words. I’ve got news for them, forget it. You’re well sussed in Scotland and we’re breaking out the box. No more of your bullshit.
Had enough!
@Thepnr: 11.19
The box has been burnt. No babies were endangered during the process
thepnr @8.23 pm
Outlaw King
So the person that posted that review saying “Scotland good England bad” missed all the Scots fighting Scots in the film. Sounds like someone who had the review ready before the film was actually released.
I saw a review by Mark Kermode. He didn’t care much for Outlaw King. Good acting by a number of the cast. It did nothing for him. Couldn’t get in to it. He didn’t think much of Braveheart either. He couldn’t understand why although these films had a lot of drama he could not relate to them. Too used to the English being the heroes in movies – perhaps.
I’ll bet he loved Dunkirk.
Self awareness is not a major strength of a lot of English..
Of course let’s never forget the actual real name of the windsors is saxe coburg gotha. A German name (hastily changed to ‘windsor’ during the first world war).
Lizzie saxe-coburg gotha. Hmmm..
Anyway, back in the real world, it now looks like the whole brexit charade is going seriously off-piste – the rats are jumping ship. People like Joe Johnson just do not want to go down in history as being one of those responsible for one of the biggest self inflicted f*ck ups in any countries history. I personally hope England goes through with it, so Scotland can once again be independent, free of English colonial control.
Agree with PNR about the Outlaw King film.
Worth watching . Well done Netflix. Would never see this as a drama/film on the BBC.
How many versions of the English Kings have we seen over the years produced by the bbc– too many.
Still has wetted my appetite to get my kindle and read The Bruce Trilogy by Nigel Tranter. He wrote a better Wallace novel too.
The majority of the population of Northern Ireland are not protestants. They numbered 48% in the 2011 census, while the catholic population numbered 45%. Presbyterians made up 19% of the population in the same census. There may already be more catholics than protestants. Given demographic trends, there will be in the near future.
Bob Mack says:
9 November, 2018 at 11:12 am
“Now we come to the crux of the matter. Nicola has already asked for a section 30 order to hold a further referendum, which May has refused. Nicola has perused May about this to no avail.”
Don’t you worry.
Everything is going to be sorted out in 2640 AD, in my humble opinion.
Any esteemed posters here able to predict a date earlier than that?
Scottish History would indicate a summit before Nov is out & the ECJ can rule on the CoS referral, because Scotland never, ever, gets a lucky break.
The lesson is & always has been – take responsibility yourself .. or get shafted.
Rockshit right enough.
Nostradamus is back.
Davie Oga There are still more Protestants than Catholics in Northern Ireland but of course if Catholics do ultimately become a majority and vote for a United Ireland given most of those Protestants are of Scottish heritage and do not want to be part of a United Ireland where would they go? Quite probably their ancestral homeland of Scotland and 500 000+ staunch Unionist Protestants moving to Scotland would guarantee a Unionist majority in Scotland for ever more so be careful what you wish for!
hyfud and rock in the same place. Who would have guessed how unlucky we can be.
Don’t waste your time responding to the waste of pixels on a screen that is the FUDs scribblings he will only end up wasting more of your time and everybody else’s too.
Cubby ‘Too used to the English being the heroes in the movies’? Presume you also have not seen Mel Gibson’s the Patriot in which an English commander supposedly ordered the burning down of a church containing American colonists in the US War of Independence (something actually perpetrated by the Nazis).
Hollywood loves English villains, from Jeremy Irons in the Lion King to Alan Rickman in Robin Hood and both in Die Hard if Hollywood wants a bad guy the first person they call is an Englishman!
Last link of the night, if I was a tory I’d be worried.
Ahead of a conference of the Eurosceptic Bruges Group on Saturday, Tory MP Mark Francois said further ministerial resignations could not be ruled out.
He told the BBC: “When we get the final deal, and it feels like that’s not very far away, Cabinet ministers will have to look into their hearts and see whether or not they feel they can support it.
“And, if they can’t, because they believe it’s a bad deal for the country, then, honourably, they would have to resign.”
link to archive.fo
For May the game is up, she’s gone. What happens after is up to Corbyn.
We’re night clubbin’ honda south side…
Just come and join us citizens…
Cairnstoon is a cumin’..
Make a curry.
NOW!
@ Thepnr – watched Outlaw King tonight and it was a tonic. Great script, acting and locations. The music was particularly apt. Bonnie at Morn, Blackbird, and two versions of Scots Wha Hae which suggest the older song was a well known classic before Burns wrote his memorable lyrics.
But the unionists will be incandescent. Not only does it portray a vital part of our history, but it ends at the battle at Louden Hill. So a sequel is clrearly in the making.
And Amazon has Outlander 4 starting this week. What luxury.
@Capella
Seems like someone is paying attention and we’re no longer being ignored as we normally might expect. All for the good.
Thepnr @ 18:21,
You could be right, lots of self-made bear traps still in wait for the blind leading the blind. Any one of which could lead to consequences, a forced UKGE included.
As a consequence the SG is still having to wait to see if any of those get sprung, giving them full opportunity to do it, and hoping that the consequences will finally open the eyes of enough people still in denial.
With all the reported ups and downs it’s hard to predict any timetable. The latest rumblings speak of a potential agreement in the making, but perhaps the biggest uncertainty of all is how Labour will react to it when it reaches HoC. Their latest abdication in Holyrood though over the “Peoples’ Vote” would seem to indicate a continuing inclination to support some kind of likely CU Brexit, and polling doesn’t offer any encouragement to them to precipitate a crisis and go to the country.
But if you’re right and end January finally sees a climax of the crisis, and there is no GE as a consequence, it will thereafter be a straight run through to March, so I could see the SG finally precipitate IR2, one way or another, to take place before that month’s end.
It would seem necessary, right & proper to allow us to exercise our sovereignty while we still have a real choice. Being right on the cusp on an exit would focus minds wonderfully.
In Scotland we are very fortunate to live in a land of beauty with no major natural disasters occurring like earthquakes, volcanos, tsunamis, wildfire, major flooding. A multitude of natural reassures. But ……..there is always a but. We have these bloody Britnats. A bunch of fanatical, flat earthers. Walking talking human disasters.
I tend to think that there are two categories of Britnats.
Cat 1. The Britnats who tell the lies and know they are lies.
Cat 2. The Britnats who don’t know or refuse to accept they are being lied to by other Britnats.
I always feel total contempt for Cat 1 Britnats.
Cat 2 Britnats can be amusing at times, irritating at times but ultimately I just feel sorry for them. I pity them.
Burpity fuckin’ burp free peeps…..
Challenge yerselves!
Learn.
To.
Can’t wait for indyref2 or the SNPs capitulation on holding an indyref.
Either way, hopefully it will mean the end for the SNP, preferably because we go independent and no longer need a so-called independence party.
Considering all eventualities: What’s the YES movement’s plan B if the SNP capitulate on holding an indyref before 2021: capitulate with them, I presume?
When will it be the SNP supporting YES, instead of YES always supporting the SNP?
Breeks 8.06pm
Spot on Breeks. There is a brief moment in Outlaw King when Bruce says he is the people’s king he is there to serve them. The writers must be logging onto Wings or they really did their research about Scotlands sovereignty. It’s just a pity that so many others that live in the British Isles are ignorant of this fact.
Cubby@12.24am
Scotland had an earthquake in 2015, a political one, which involved a tsunami of votes, flooding to the SNP.
We in Scotland lit a wildfire under unionism and WM which Guy Fawkes would have been proud of.
Ah’l get ma coat…!
Robert Kerr @7.00pm
Major cringing going on all over Edinburgh in that embarrassing pathe(tic) news report of the Queen arriving to kindly let her subjects take a keek at her. I ain’t no subject and never will be. A subject to me is geography or chemistry.
She could’nt even be bothered to put the Scottish crown on her head. If we have to have a Scottish King/Queen it should be one that respects Scotland, has the best interests of Scotland at heart and knows their place – to serve Scots – not to subject them.
Geeo@12.59am
Love your comment. Take your coat off and keep your comment coming.
Yer maw!
Ahm fae Glasgow.
An ahm walikn’ intae it…
Ahm discoverin’!
Call.
Hey Glasgow…
Ah’ve just walked over the Glasgow Bridge.
The river is fine… ra river is good.
Operation go fun!
BBC and Sky News websites still missing a rather important news story i see..
Its like this never happened..
……..
Scotland’s highest court has refused the UK government leave to appeal its referral of a case to the European court of justice that seeks to establish whether the UK can unilaterally stop Brexit. This paves the way for the case to be heard in Luxembourg later this month.
At the court of session in Edinburgh on Thursday, Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, rejected the arguments put by the advocate general, Lord Keen, on behalf of the UK government to appeal the decision before the supreme court in London.
…………….
No news yet on the EU Continuity case yet…WM’s Supreme Court not been told what to do yet perhaps?
Or they have been told to wait as long as possible before releasing the verdict ?
We hold some pretty major cards here, brilliantly engineered by Scotsgov and the SNP.
The continuity bill case is a slam dunk either way.
Find with Scotsgov, and brexit is dead in the water from a Scots perspective.
Any attempt to continue taking us out against our expressed sovereign will = illegal subjugation of our Sovereign will = Treaty of Union over.
Find with WM and the SC has ruled that Scots Law CAN be subjugated, but Scots Law is protected forever, as agreed in the Treaty of Union, so that would require the SC to also rule that the Treaty of Union has been set aside to allow that to happen.
Slam dunk either way.
A ruling in Scotsgov favour throws up another fur-ball for WM.
WM would forego the assumed right to negotiate any EU trade deal using any aspect amongst those returning 111 devolved powers, particularly say, access to fishing grounds in Scottish waters.
A SC verdict in our favour, would mean fishing would be devolved to Holyrood, so the EU would need to negotiate directly with Scotland surely ?
Access to our waters would not be in the WM gift.
WM, and their propagandist media by lies and ommission can stick their collective fingers in their ears and sing ah la lah di dah all they like, but that will not change the legal statuses of the above scenarios.
All this and we have not even got our official campaign started yet.
Now that is what you call doing due diligence and groundwork in advance of the battle to come.
It is almost over before it begins.
Great work, SNP Scotsgov.
Good tae see ye on it geeo, ahm in it…
Whitesnake is playin’
Sweet HOME.
@Gus
Yes I noticed that.
Wouldn’t mind betting that if John Robertson or some other bod analysed the incidence of ‘technical difficulties’ for the BBC (which are genuinely very rare these days) over the last few years they might find that they are all (or nearly all) in relation to SNP speakers, usually the leaders.
We live in evel times.
Cactus,
Can you please give layman’s interpretations to your (cryptic) contributions as a post script below each entry?
HYFUD,
Div ye ken whit FUD means in Scots?
Aweright sandy, be U a boy orra girl Winger…?
We are getting on it.
Cryptosicity.
Be the cat.
Miaow.
We’re getting SO close to iScotland, sandy.
Taste it!
Sandy…
You have mon attention…
St Andrewz day is the end of Novembre 2018…
Hey there Love.
27/30.
Cookies operation pakora calling…
There is hope on Hope Street.
Chuckin oot time.
Veritas.
@ sandy says at 2:28 am ….”Cactus, can you please give layman’s interpretations to your (cryptic) contributions as a post script below each entry.”
Sandy are you a ”newbie” on here? If so for Gods sake forget it. Why Stu continues to go along with this ”cryptic garbage” is beyond me. It’s clearly not helping him … Cactus. No friend to him, sad to say.
Meanwhile Cactus continues to ruin this site, imo, ”I’m here and vomiting there”, in the main for people visiting from abroad overnight, imo. Great role model for Scotland…. NOT.
And yes I have proof that he’s totally undermining this site with his ”cryptic contributions”.
Cactus proclaiming to support Independence for Scotland and all of that? Just another anti-independence strategy being deployed, imo. The doo-lally bl**dy act.
Aye right. It takes all types and should makes you wonder. Waken up.
Hey Petra…
What urr ye still daeing up at this naughty oor.
Dance with me…
Aye Love Petra…
Don’t ye ever forget dat ma’am.
Ah’ve no even begun Queen Petra.
Just waking up Lady P.
Nice links P.
Ah think Petra has a crush on me…
Whaddya reckon Scotland…
Love U babe xx.
Mwah.
One is HAMEWARD bound honda taxi Petra…
Ah’ve no even read whit ye’ve written..
But aye will… laters.
There is thyme for everything.
We shall.
Hey lil lady, don’t go shy on me now and Wings.
Stand up for your insinuations.
Ahm HAME now.
FLY!
Anybuddy got any plans for St Andrews day…
It’s good to be free.
XX DRTGo.
30/11/18.
Petra is right, ahm pure ruining it awe, hey Petra if you are for real… dinnae get me wrang, but Nana does the groovy morning links…
Get yer own kettle.
Aussi just needed tae say at this early hour honda Sunday morning…
Cheers Winger confused.
Yer every word.
Excellent. 🙂
That’ll be a Sunday morning… where ahm aye like.
Tis a Cairnstoon marnin’.
Ra Eagles on ears.
Fuck!
4’s.
Saturday.
X2.
Now is the time for independence.
Heh! And the rhetoric toward May’s handling of Brexit negotiation ramps up, both from her own party and the DUP. Accused of betrayal no less. Huh!
This from folk who couldn’t describe to the populations of the UK what Brexit entailed before or during the referendum and had no exit strategy or planning in place for their victory. There was no settled or agreed picture of brexit for people to vote upon. No answer to a great many breeches of standing constitutional agreements and their repercussions for the populations. Likewise no idea of the UK’s constitutional and legal landscape after attempting to unravel four decades of joint legislation. No thought given to the costs involved, the lines of supply, trade agreements… nothing.
Yet with so many differing views of what Brexit meant or entailed to so many different people, Ms May is betraying what vision or whom in their eyes? Just, their version would be somehow magically better and involve no discomfort whatsoever for the populations of the UK? That’s what they’re selling? It’s all going to be awful because May’s not doing it right and reasons.
Mibbies just me but, I’d say Brexit is a galactofeck for all the populations of these islands regardless of deal or no deal. It will NOT matter what PM May does or does not do. The outcome for massive demographics across the UK is going to be catastrophic and they know it. They also know those voters are going to be looking for someone to blame.
Their response? Again mibbies just me, but I’d say it’s about scapegoating. Who carries the can for the shitstorm brewing. Those who are attempting to polish the turd and those who dropped it in the first place. I’m guessing they know folk are going to be a tad grumpy toward someone and they’d rather the grumpiness wasn’t directed toward them.
Most folk would be forgiven at this stage for thinking they’re ALL responsible.
They’d be right.
Potted, hough well, since ahm still here…
Hey Elmac!
Everybuddy getting excited about being FREE again.
What does Chris have for us laters…?
A very good morning to you Sam.
Feeling real good about being iScotland again. 🙂
Can almost taste it…
What you said.
You take care Cactus and yeah, it’s coming to the boil right enough. 🙂
🙂
We’re awe good peeps, ahm just stirring the potage.
Best wishes independent people.
It’s Saturday…
Again.
Important article in The National yesterday I missed:
link to thenational.scot
“YES DIY: How your group can boost The National’s circulation”
DMcE-H’s idea really taking off it seems. Please repost the link later to give it wide exposure – there are no comments on the article yet …
Hi Cactus and Macart, you still up? I’m off to bed!
Brexit shambles continues a pace. The Tory unionists shambles. It is the unionists way, They could not make a bigger mess of an economy. Ignorant incompetent bastards. The greens bleating on like sheep as usual about building a few roads. It will help the sheep get up the hill. What a bunch of ignorant incompetents.
People are being sanctioned and starved. Left lying on the streets or in prison. The political incompetents causing it. Most of the Westminster unionist liars and their associates should be in jail for lying fraud, breaking the Law, tax evasion and killing millions of people. Lying hypocrites. The most divided place with the biggest wealth gap in the world. The Johnston double act of liars.
Oxbridge financed 2000 to 1 of all universities with absolutely no diversity or equality So out of touch conceited cretins can ruin the world. These liars got their privilege education free. To kill other people in miserable unnecessary wars. .
The extravagant poppy wearers and tax evading sychophants. They have not shame. Supporting illegal wars and mass invasions. Killing other folk. They should be apologising. They are not commemorating, they are celebrating. War. war, war. They are at odds with their own people. Covering up their criminality under the Official Secrets Act. Iraq, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.
A GE coming soon to put the Tories out of the misery. To let another bunch of incoherent, incompetent unionists wasters in to power at Westminster. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. To get away from the useless shower, for proper governance. The only thing that makes sense. Scotland really has so much going for it. A great potential.
The dissenters should just abandon ship. There is no other way out of it. Some fishermen get their comeuppance. Serves them right for voting Tory. Destroying their own industry. Some people never learn. A bunch of half wits.
Tesco vans have poppies on the front. Just indecent advertising. Trying to get in in the act. The are trying to make money out of lying. A desperate miserable act. Give some money to Erskine and leave it at that. Glorying gory War for political advantage. Killing millions of people on lies. Trying to make money out of killing. Some are never out of the Church. ‘Thou shalt no kill’. Head of the Church. They haven’t learnt much. The total and complete hypocrisy. The over consuming bloody fest of lies and hypocrisy.
The Brexit shambles of indecency. The EU was founded to stop starvation and war, after the 11WW. The Westminster liars trying to destroy the consensus. They will not succeed despite their miserable actions.
‘The most divides place with the biggest wealth gap on the world’? Tell that to Saudi Arabia or Russia or India or Brazil which all have bigger wealth gaps and inequality has actually fallen since 2008 as has unemployment which is now lower in the UK than most western countries.
link to bbc.co.uk
‘The EU was founded to stop starvatiom.and war’ but tell that to Greece with mass poverty and over 20% unemployment due to EU imposed austerity and high taxes
Northern Ireland is not a province of anywhere, it is six counties of the nine county province of Ulster. A referendum in NI would probably only leave two counties still occupied!
More BBC Fake News:-
According to their Breakfast Sports Expert on this morning’s program ‘Scotland were brushed aside by Wales last week’.
Aye Right.
Macart says:
Indeed. Any referendum run in the manner of EURef cannot claim to have decided anything, far less the will of the people!
Cameron renegotiated terms of membership. That should have been put as a Yes or No to those changes. No should have meant status quo.
If the far right wanted to actually Leave, then they should have presented a thought through plan, and had a different referendum.
Fred Northern Ireland is a province of the UK and those 2 counties which are Protestant majority are the most populous in Northern Ireland. If there ever was a United Ireland the staunchly Protestant Unionists of Antrim and Down would likely return to their ancestral home of Scotland, which would likely guarantee Scotland’s support for the Union for ever
HYUFD – you’re having a wee joke. When Ireland unites the dinosaurs will move to their natural home built on the class system, deference, exceptionalism, racism and where bigotry is enshrined in law – England!
oh an I nearly forgot – love of Empire. The people I feel most sympathy for in these islands are the English – ruled by backward looking twerps for centuries!
@galamcennalath
It was an appalling campaign. People were sold a bill of goods in the shape of slogans, soundbites, marketing. Some folk weren’t given an option about voting or not, even when they had warned the then PM about the threat to standing constitutional settlements. The political class of Westminster weren’t concerned about those agreements though. They were yesterday’s agreements apparently. I want them to remember that in the near future. Yesterday’s agreements. What’s good for goose kinda thing.
We are where we are because of a perfect storm of ignorance, arrogance and blind party politicking. It’s going to run its course at this stage.
No they will mainly move to Scotland home of the Presbyterian Church so many belong to and where they have family ties. They will happily join the Orange Order in
Glasgow and go to Rangers matches
@HYUFD says: 9 November, 2018 at 10:48 pm
” … No, the Republic of Ireland is a nation and majority Catholic, Northern Ireland is a province of the UK and majority Protestant and Unionist with a majority of its inhabitants descended from Presbyterian Scottish settlers.”
Rubbish! All Ireland was an established kingdom and conformed to a very similar one in Wales. With many minor monarchies or principalities and one all Ireland monarchy. The Norman Conquest of Ireland began the process of, “Plantation”, in an effort to colonise Ireland. Thus those Scots, Welsh and English planted in Ireland were invaders and the English ones were the Norman Aristocracy. BTW: There is no longer a Protestant majority in the ENGLISH province of Northern Ireland.
Of which English plans a certain Gideon, (George), Osborne’s family is one. Osborne is part of the old Anglo-Irish aristocracy, known in Ireland as the Ascendancy. He is the heir to the two Osborne baronetcies (of Ballentaylor, in County Tipperary, and Ballylemon, in County Waterford).
Ireland is a politically partitioned country and is almost certain to reunify in the not too distant future. As usual Westminster is directly responsible for centuries of, “The Troubles”.
” … Wales has had MPs at Westminster since the Laws of Wales Acts in the 15th century and the Principality of Wales is still represented in Wales by the Prince of Wales.”
And the Prince of Wales is always the first born male child of the Monarch of The Kingdom of England. This for Westminster to keep Wales tied to England. You blether English re-written history that is proven to be lies.
As for Scotland – The United Kingdom is exactly that – a united kingdom formed by only the two kingdoms who are signatories to the Treaty of Union. The United Kingdom is legally a Kingdom. It is not, and never has been, a unified country. The Scottish, “Claim of Right”, predates the Treaty of Union and has since been re-affirmed several times since.
The Kingdoms of Scotland and the, (3 country), Kingdom of England are legally equally sovereign partners as signatory kingdoms of the Treaty of Union and that treaty is an extant international treaty and, as such, will be subject to the ECJ as are all International Treaties.
The United Kingdom has never complied with the terms of the articles of union as set out in the Treaty of Union. It is thus subject to being challenged in the World Court. This Challenge is getting closer by the day and indeed there are certain challenges being considered by the ECJ right now.
The days of Westminster intransigence are numbered and their time is running out fast.
The Union has been dead for some time now – it just lacks the insight to lie down and decompose.
HYUFD – clearly subtlety is lost on you!
Bill McLean@9.47
Especially if as expected Scotland is Independent before there is a united Ireland .
There will be no place left for them to go but England .
Saying that I would not wish these Dinosaurs on my worst enemy
Silverytay – HYUFD seemed to miss that possibility in his learned post but of course you are right. The dinosaurs will go to England when Scotland is independent. Again I agree – why should the people of England put up with them? But as you sow ………
@HYUFD says: 9 November, 2018 at 11:56 pm:
” … Protestants are of Scottish heritage and do not want to be part of a United Ireland where would they go?”
In the first place the Northern Ireland Protestants were/are not all descendants of Scots. “The Plantations”, of Ireland were not all from Scotland but actually began with Welsh immigrants but the leadership was the, “Ascendancy”, and these were/are all English.
… Quite probably their ancestral homeland of Scotland and 500 000+ staunch Unionist Protestants moving to Scotland would guarantee a Unionist majority in Scotland for ever more so be careful what you wish for!”
What pish do they teach you unionists, HYUFD?
Do you understand the derogatory term, “Hillbilly”, as used in the United States?
The, “Hillbillies”, (who incidentally had a past great influence on the USA), were the so called Scotch/Irish immigrants to the USA from Ireland. Historically, therefore, the Protestants of Scottish descent who became disillusioned went to the USA and were the supporters of King Billy and hence them being called Hillbillies.
As examples of their influence on USA life let me enlighten you.
The USA/World music scene as been greatly influenced by those hillbillies. The USA Country & Western music was based originally upon traditional Scottish and Irish folk music. Then came the original traditional jazz and blues music that incorporated the Afro-American freed slave music and that drew upon the Scottish and Irish folk music too.
The great Jazz classic, “Saint James Infirmary Blues”, has references right back to the United Kingdom. There is/was no St James Infirmary in the USA – but there was in London and it treated sexually transmitted diseases. The Jazz Classic is based upon an old British folk number. Then, of course Rock & Roll was influenced by both Country & Western and Jazz/Blues.
So there you go. The Billy Boys from N.I. did not return to Scotland – they became the Hillbillies of the USA.
Go learn some real history, HYUFD.
Your, “Precious Union”, is dead and will soon have to lie down and accept its fate.
@Yesindyref2
I’ve put out a call to activists on OT.
From the National Torys prepared to “sell out Scottish fishing industry” .
Shockarooney! Who would have suspected that would have happened.
Someone should have warned the fisherfolk not to trust the Tories….
@Hyufd,
The majority of the population in N Ireland is officially republican. Has been for the last ten years.
Robert Peffers No, I was absolutely right. Northern Ireland is now a province of the UK and of course it was James VIth of Scotland and 1st of England who began the process of settling mainly Scottish Presbyterian in Northern Ireland to reduce the Catholic majority. Northern Ireland also still has more Protestants than Catholics and a Unionist First Minister.
There are more Scottish Presbyterian Unionists in Northern Ireland who tend to be DUP voters than descendants of Anglo Irish landlords who tend to be more moderate Ulster Unionist voters
Wales is very Unionist, it also has a Unionist First Minister and Plaid trailed both Labour and the Tories in Wales at the last general election. Wales also voted Leave just like England.
As for the people of Scotland they affirmed their belief in the Union when 55% of them voted to stay part of the UK in the 2014 referendum
Silveratay Nothing to stop them even then going to an independent Scotland and turning it back to the UK again. Though of course even in the even of No Deal Brexit one poll has No still beating Yes in Scotland 52% to 48% from Panelbase even if Survation has Yes ahead by the same margin
Robert Peffers The driver for the plantations of Scotland was James VIth of Scotland who took the throne of England when Elizabeth Ist died without children.
Some Scotch Irish along with Native Irish went to America yes but many stayed in Ireland and in Ulster and their descendants are still there
Bob Mack No there are still more Protestants than Unionists in NI and the DUP has more MPs thsn Sinn Fein and the DUP and UUP more Northern Irish Assembly members than Sinn Fein and the SDLP
Jason Smoothpiece Most Scottish fishermen voted to Leave the EU, so to support them are Scottish Nationalists now backing a No Deal hard Brexit then and no compromise with the EU?
Robert Peffers The driver for the plantations of northern Ireland was James VIth of Scotland who took the throne of England when Elizabeth 1st died without children
The driver for the plantations was to stop border war fare between Scotland and England. You will find there were as many sent from England as Scotland. Armstrongs and Grahams from both sides, riddles, Reids/Reeds, Scott’s and Nixon are prominent names in Ulster. A fair number of them Catholics and Church of England.
Their are about 8 Continental countries bordering the North Sea that have historical rights to fish in Scottish and English waters dating back to the Hanseatic league. They will continue to do so.
The largest number of those sent by James VIth of Scotland and 1st of England to settle in Ulster were Scottish and few of the settlers were Catholic as the aim was to reduce the Gaelic Catholic influence there and ensure the settlers were Protestant and loyal to the King.
Great to see Nats fully behind the fishing rights of continental fishermen even at the expense of Scottish fishermen, though I suggest you do not try and sell that on the doorstep without being prepared for an earful next time you go canvassing for the SNP in Moray
If the UK or Scottish Government tried to prevent these countries from exercising their historic right( it predates the EU) they would end up in the International courts. Just one the ramifications would be the vetoing trade deals with the UK.
The following quotes are from:-
link to bbc.co.uk
published on 19 April 2018.
“Dr Paul Nolan, who specialises in monitoring the peace process and social trends, told BBC News NI that there could be more Catholics than Protestants in Northern Ireland by the centenary of the foundation of the state.
The last census in 2011 put the Protestant population at 48%, just 3% more than Catholics at 45%.
More recent figures from 2016 show that among those of working age 44% are now Catholic and 40% Protestant.
The difference is even more marked among schoolchildren with 51% Catholic, 37% Protestant.
Only among the over 60s is there a majority of Protestants with 57%, compared to Catholics on 35%.
Dr Nolan said: “Three years from now we will end up, I think, in the ironic situation on the centenary of the state where we actually have a state that has a Catholic majority.””
So there are still more Protestants than Catholics now then as I said.
Even if Northern Ireland has a Catholic majority Antrim, the largest county where every seat is DUP held and probably Down too will still be majority Protestant
But if there is a referendum in NI, will the result be for reunification, or for NI to remain a subsidiary part of England?
As long as there is a Protestant majority in Northern to stay part of the UK, if there is a Catholic majority depends on whether a hard border is avoided in Ireland or not