The mask slips, part 476
Posted on
November 19, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Remember how the No camp is conducting a positive campaign, and definitely NOT saying that Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to thrive as an independent country, and that only evil cybernats ever suggest that they’re saying that?
Here’s Danny Alexander on Sky News this morning. We’re not sure he got the memo.
Feel that positivity and pride gushing out all over the screen, readers.
He also seems not to have got the memo telling them to pull back on the creepy “proud Scot” mantra.
Decoded as: I am a proud & patriotic Scot and I am telling you that its shite to be Scottish. Vote No so we can hide how shite we are by calling ourselves British.
Oh yeah you can feel the pride he takes in being thought of as a worthless shit.
He IS a worthless shit.
Better Together Anthem
There’s bad times roon the corner
There’s bad times in the glen
Yi cannea run yir country
Yur nea guid yi ken
Nibdea’s gonny want us
Oor oil’s nea worth a shit
Wi hivnea gotta chance
Yur nea guid ya git
Yi see thur’s no a hope
Yi see thur’s no but or ben
Proud Scots get back in yur kennel
Yur nea guid yi ken
I think that Scotland staying in the UK would be pretty catastrophic economically (& culturally & linguistically) for Scotland…I’m making that argument as a Scot.
Wow, proud AND patriotic? Oh well, he MUST be telling the truth, then.
If Scotland was truly as shite as folk like Danny Alexander make out, what on earth would there to be proud of?
“They’ve looked at all the possible scenarios”.
Wow – an economic forecast of biblical proportions. Unfortunately for the separatists it seems to be strictly old testament stuff.
Quite a number of bare-faced lies for such a short statement. The worst of these, though, is surely, “someone who’s a proud and patriotic Scot”. Quisling liar.
Wait a minute, the IFS report looked at ALL the possible scenarios did it? I thought one of the main drawbacks of the report was that it didn’t look at the various ways an Independent Scotland could handle its finances differently than rUK.
Someone correct me if that’s not the case.
Otherwise Mr Alexander….there’s the exit. Try and let the door hit you more than once on the way out.
This is what they really think. Despite Scotland having abundant natural resources, they think that under independence we would be an economic disaster. This is because Unionism, by its very nature, has to put down Scotland constantly, particularly its ability to govern itself. Alexander is a wretched individual.
People are buying this shite though. And that is a big, big problem.
I hate this “proud and patriotic Scot” nonsense they come away with. It’s almost as if they are using it to somehow legitimatise what they are saying!
I feel sick.
A “proud scot” is really an extremely proud British nationalist who was born north of Hadrian’s Wall (bad luck, old chap).
London is, and always will be, the centre of the proud scot’s universe.
Danny Alexander a man with the charisma of a week old cowpat and the political acumen of a mentally retarded Gerbil has spoken, so it must be true – my arse. He has nothing credible to say just like the rest of the evil cockwombles.
How sweet of him to take time out of his busy schedule of throwing people in wheelchairs out their homes to tell us that.
How about this for a T-shirt slogan:
I’m not a proud scot,
I’m an independent scot!
Oh my God… we’re DOOOOMED!
I challenge this worthless piece and his ilk to stand up in front of a Scottish audience and debate/justify his views openly why he as a “proud Scot” and can align himself to why he thinks that his acclaimed country is better governed by another country….He will never do it as that takes balls and manhood and he ain’t got any.
‘Shakes head in despair’ Beaker should get back to his lab in the Muppets.
Top work!
I thought they had agreed we could make it on our own and official party line was ‘We could be succesful, but better as in the UK’.
Mask slips indeed. They are bricking it! There’s not been a sea change, but the wheels are certainly turning and the likes of Mosson, Gray and even the lads from Frightened Rabbit, who are one of Scotland’s biggest bands.
Can almost predict the white paper – there will be some similar report with ‘billions’ and ‘black holes’. Maybe even they’ll get a poll with indy at 18% or something!
Liugi, that tshirt sounds fantastic.
Yep, here Mr Alexander is doing his immediate boss a favour…by playing up the usual Scotland is subsidised rule, should play well in middle england.
Their arguments don’t change folks, you may not believe it, but people can see past this or just don’t give a toss about it. This is the last hurrah of the no campaign, before the concerted effort of the yes campaign and the release of the white paper.
It’ll be an interesting contrast….this week and next week. Out with the old and in the with the new.
Keep the faith.
The Sky presenter was quite correct to highlight the key principle Danny was pedaling – English taxpayers subsidise Scotland and it’s going to get worse in the coming years. It always seems to come back to this with better together fundamental economics.
Looks like Simon Heffer at the Daily Mosley has some competition from Danny.
Unbelievable how brainwashed some people have become.sixty countries in the past one hundred years have gained independence from the British empire and not one has begged to come back. Only Scotland is incapable apparently.
“Their arguments don’t change folks, you may not believe it, but people can see past this or just don’t give a toss about it.”
Agreed. I’m not sure people are buying into it at all. Darling’s hysteria tells its own story. The man is on the verge of being sectioned.
LibDems! The little scamps!
I couldn’t stomach reading or reading too much about the IFS report. But it did make me smile that in all of them the unionists were practically screaming at us over and over that the IFS is repected and independent an not biased AT ALL. Hmmm…
“People are buying this shite though. And that is a big, big problem.”
Yes exactly. And the problem is when you’re debating with an “undecided” now who only gets their information from the media, you’re faced with a whole string of nonsense that’s been disproved over and over – we couldnae bail out our banks if they failed, we willnae be allowed tae use the pound, we’ll be kicked out of the EU, and they folk on the news say we’ll be fucked, and if we vote No we’ll have federalism in a few years anyway.
Sadly people do believe all this tripe. And it’s very hard to debate with someone (worse with 3 or 4 people) who’re firing all this kind of stuff at you, especially as mostly people don’t want to debate it so kill the conversation pretty fast as well.
As long as we have wall to wall biased media to this extent, and people not willing to look past it, there’s a danger we will end up with a no vote next year based on lies and ignorance. I’m not sure where that leaves any of us.
muttley79 says:
This is what they really think. Despite Scotland having abundant natural resources, they think that under independence we would be an economic disaster.
I think you need to turn that statement on it’s head.
They KNOW that without Scotlands abundant resources after Independence the rUK would be an economic disaster.
Just what is it about Scotland that these people are proud of?
Danny Alexander thinks self government would be a catastrophy because a London think tank told him so.London says we’re too stupid to run our own country properly and he believes them.London says me and my countrymen are a bunch of losers…and Danny Alexander agrees.Aye.A patriotic Scot.A 21st century William Wallace.
I think that Scotland leaving the UK would be pretty catastrophic economically for Scotland… I’m making that argument as someone who’s a proud and patriotic Scot.”
Of course what he meant to say was: …. “I’m making that argument as someone who would lose my job and entitlements at Westminster.”
BusinessBusiness for Scotland’s Gordon MacKintyre Kemp has already dealt with this IFS bullshit
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/ifs-is-out-of-touch-with-the-reality-of-an-independent-scotland/
@Cath
I hear you, but the trick is to remain calm ; )
If they are so happy with Westminster, ask them why…..I don’t think anyone is, so whatever info they give out on this, should lead you into the next question for them.
No one said it was going to be easy, we have time on our side….these things DO take time to manifest once the seed has been planted.
Just had another person in the office ‘come out’ for Yes last friday, I mentioned one thing months ago and he has been researching things ever since.
He is now asking the no voters why they are voting no….LOL
And if he is a proud Scot I’d like to know what he’s proud of? Presumably the classic English image of a Jock with a begging bowl?
If you think back to the singing of the Edinburgh Agreement, the key feature was the Unionist triumphalism at denying a second question in the referendum. They kept going on about it being Salmond’s insurance card and such like. They were jubilant at this. However, the fact that there is only one question, a straight Yes/No to independence, meant that they had no choice but to be negative. This was a stroke of genius from Salmond and co. The law of diminishing returns on the scare stories would soon set in. Here we are just over a year later and the scaremongering is continuing, but people have become so used to them that they will soon, if they have not already started too, look for a positive case for the Union from the No campaign. It simply is not there. No wonder Darling and co appear angry and panicky.
Baxter, probably he’s proud of the fact that up until now, he’s managed to fool enough dafties to vote for him. Hopefully the next GE will see him – any many other “proud Scots” with their greedy snouts in the Westminster expenses trough -out on their collective ears!
But Cameron, Darling et al, have already stated we could be a viable and successful independent country. Did they lie?
Sorry O/T but Henry McLeish getting involved in the debate again.
“Exclusive: Former First Minister Henry McLeish says the Prime Minister is more hated than Margaret Thatcher and will add 5 per cent to support for independence unless he steps back from the campaign”
http://archive.is/2F4TG
If the London / SE centric housing bubble bursts in 2014 I wonder how Danny and his mates will play out that scenario?
Never have so many been promoted above their capabilities.
Elected to protect education/NHS cut both £3Billion a year.
Increased Oil tax revenues 11% to 61% leading to a cut in investment/production.
Privatising NHS, the despicable, disgraceful ‘Bedroom Tax’.
The LibDems are toast.
Cath, never try to persuade more than one person at a time. Take them one at a time. Listen to what they say, keep calm and counter it with the truth. If you don’t know the answer to a question acknowledge their concern and get back to them later with an answer. Don’t forget!Back up everything you say with some kind of third party reference eg this web site. The people around me are moving to YES. I’m convinced of that. Don’t give up. Wear them down. Don’t get depressed or angry with the media. Just get even by talking to people about what’s going on. They can’t stop you talking to people (yet!).
Pity about the audio quality but I did pick this out “That independence would be bad for Scotland but it would also be bad for the UK” which just does not make any sense.
I caught a news item on the cost of living rises in the UK last night. Interesting that the biggest single chunk of the increase was down to a significant rise in the cost of … … education.
Something about tuition fees.
So who introduced these tuition fees and what muppets trebled them?
I reckon that this referndum has surpassed Cameron and his Tory government, it’s now getting down to the crucial and real debate for the Independence for the nation of Scotland.
@Cath
I agree. One of my biggest fears is that enough people will believe the MSM’s propaganda for the Union. However, we can’t do anything about that. What we can do is ask people questions such as: if the Union is so great why is life expectancy in parts of Scotland so low? If the Union is so great, why is a energy rich nation, such as Scotland, so comparatively poor at the moment? Surely if the Union was the success its supporters claim it is, why is it that Scotland is so uniquely incapable of running its own affairs? Why was the McCrone Report kept secret if Scotland was and is the economic basket case that the No campaign says it is? Also, we can also support Wings, Bella Caledonia, National Collective, Newsnet Scotland etc. The MSM is a lost cause I am afraid.
Will there be the death penalty for treason in an independant Scotland?
I think it is still in force doon sooth?
There seems to be a concerted effort to impress upon us that the IFS is a respected think tank. The BBC, ITV and every Unionist politician have told us so during yesterday’s scare-fest. If one was of a cynical nature, one would think that they are trying to build up a reputation for this Unionist body in order that any future scaremongering it comes up with is taken seriously.
I’m getting really sickened by their constant barrage of ‘Scots cannae dae it’ – ‘Scots are useless’ – ‘Scots are incapable’. I find it most insulting and offensive – especially when a great deal of it is coming from Scottish collaborators.
Danny Alexander and his ilk remind me of this ditty:
Canny Danny and Dinnae Ken
are twa our maist kenspeckle men.
Danny Canny dae withoot
and Dinnae Ken whit it’s aboot
For their respective orthodox
of failure: infects like a pox
their minds. In soil rich they flourish but
in soil Scots they sour much.
Canny Danny, Dinnae Ken:
oor twa, respected, gentlemen.
Dear Sir,
I am a very proud and patriotic Scot.
Yours faithfully,
Menteith.
Carmichael allowed to lie unchallenged regards the Scot gov taxation paper today on news 24 He said he did not know where the SNP got the figures that showed we paid more tax over the last 30 years and suggested it was just made up. Still waiting for details from swiinney and Salmond.
Oh Oh, comments are open on the BBC website….good lord.
Let me rephrase that for him -‘ I’m making this arguement as someone who is a lying bastard.’
Whilst some people might believe all of this, the counter arguement has to be if we are such an economic basket case then why is the most right wing government in our history so keen to hang on to us?
Why is a government whose only interest is in money not getting rid of us sponging jocks?
Do you really want to be in a partnership with folk who despise you so much?
And BTW Danny Alexander is a busted flush after swinging right behind the Cons.
To use a favourite unionist cliche:
Well, they would say that, wouldn’t they?
I suspect from the people I know on this forum, that we represent a wide cross section of Scotland.
Age range, Education, Industry Sector, Occupation and nationality.
This heartens me. We are not crazy or eccentric. We are not deluded. We are not unrealistic. We are not wrong in wanting away from this corrupt political arrangement.
When I see someone like Alexander lecturing us from his Westminster perspective, I know that there is something ‘out-of-kilter’.
Is he smarter than all of us collectively? Perhaps a better Scot? Is he better informed? Maybe he cares about Scotland more than us? Or is does he have more common sense?
The answer is clearly none of these.
Collectively the people on Wings are more savvy, more intelligent, more experienced, more visionary and more caring of Scotland than any politician or political party.
This is a one dimensional man. He is bereft of vision for Scotland of which he claims to be so proud.
The answer is in his salary and career. Power corrupts. He dreams of roles or positions in the Political arena that are only available in the British Establishment as it is now. Who knows, perhaps he has dreamed all his life to become the next LibDem Prime Minister.
Whatever ambition he has for himself. Two things are clear. It conflicts with Scotland’s interests and (like so may others) he has no ambition for Scotland.
Does any one disagree with that analysis?
I think it is now clear beyond doubt that the Scottish cringe never really went away among a sizable proportion of the population here. Even after the establishment of the Scottish Parliament, and the success of progressive policies, it remains. I am not sure whether a lot of people are even aware that it is used by Unionist politicians to protect their own status and privileges. The No campaign are cynically using it, even their own name “Project Fear” shows this. It could so easily be Project Scottish cringe.
Aye, its like these people who say I am not racist but…
Here’s a good one you could try.
When you’re walking in a public place, hold your mobile to your ear and say something like, “Yes, you’re absolutely right, all they ever do is talk Scotland down on the TV…….No, I don’t believe a thing I hear on the TV or radio about Scotland either.”
You can try all sorts of variations on that theme. Try it. It’s fun!
“I’m making that argument as some-one who’s a proud and patriotic Scot.”
I’m sure it’s the case that ("Tractor" - Ed)s will always profess how patriotic they are while they’re in the process of selling out their country and countrymen for their own advantage.
Just been watching the BBC news channel at lunchtime: the headline is that “a paper” by the Scottish government today says Scots would have been better off with independence. Compare to yesterday’s report from a “well respected” independent body, which points out how awful independence would be for Scotland, pensions, welfare, higher taxes etc. And that’s about it.
Presenter lobs it to Secretary of State for Scotland. Cue five minute monologue of rubbishing “this paper” and the SNP, SNP, SNP… SNP, more SNP…Salmond, SNP, SNP, Swinney, SNP SNP… And that’s about it.
What is “this paper” called?
What are its contents?
What are its figures based on?
What else does it have to say apart from that one thing?
Where is any attempt at discussion?
Where is anyone to give us any view but a UK government anti-party-political broadcast?
@Wingman2000:
Eh me! you forgot to state he was a worthless piece of shit…other than that you are spot on IMO.
Swinney just gave a good account of himself on politics show despite the sniggering and sneering from the burd.
Appropriately enough, today is World Toilet Day… seriously. I think that explains a lot of the stuff the unionists are spouting.
I am completely relaxed about this onslaught. They’re going to sink under the weight of their own negativity. People will recognise the same old lies being repeated again and again and again.
Poor old Darling is headed for meltdown now, and quite soon I think.
Trust the people, they wont let us down.
@ Cal
“When you’re walking in a public place, hold your mobile to your ear and say something like, “Yes, you’re absolutely right, all they ever do is talk Scotland down on the TV…….No, I don’t believe a thing I hear on the TV or radio about Scotland either.”
You can try all sorts of variations on that theme. Try it. It’s fun!”
That’s a smashing idea.. There is a shopping center round the corner, I think I might go out for my lunch today 🙂
@ wee e
Aye the difference is night and day regards the coverage today given to the Scots gov paper compared to the ifs yesterday . There must have been 20 different bbc correspondents alone covering the ifs.
Luigi @ 12:29
That was a quotation from Mandy Rice Davis, quite another whore.
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/ifs-is-out-of-touch-with-the-reality-of-an-independent-scotland/
A proud and patriotic Scot?
That is one of the most demeaning interviews regarding Scotland I have heard!
Were the UK general election to be held tomorrow, Danny Alexander and his Liberal-Democrat colleagues in Scotland would be out on their ear! The only faintly possible exception would be Carmichael.
The LD’s would be reduced to one MP in Scotland, the same as the Tories.
They have sold the Jerseys, their Liberal-Democrat one and their Scottish one.
Shame on you Alexander. And to think I used to quite like the Liberal-Democrats!
Lets accept for a moment that the IFS have incredible skill at predicting the future, hedgehogs and crystal balls notwithstanding.
Their report, as they admit, takes no account of the variation in circumstances which the actions of an independent government might take and assumes the continuation of current UK economic policy applied, like for like, to Scotland.
What they are predicting is the dire straits we would find ourselves in WITHIN the UK. they are making the case FOR independence. Like the Ghost of Cristmas Future – they are describing what will happen if we don’t change.
“The IFS has constructed an enviable reputation for objectivity. Chancellors tremble at its verdicts. So should Alex Salmond and the yes campaign”
Believe it or not, that is the official opinion of the Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/18/scottish-independence-counting-the-cost
Come on Danny, no need to hold back – wave your flag.
What are you?
“I am a Highlander, a proud Scot, a patriotic Brit and a European.”
Embradon
Exactly the point J Swinney made on air the day the report was published. Disappeared after the afternoon news break to be replace by a few seconds describing the report as fatally flawed (er that’s it) and a recorded polemic from from Darling.
The IFS has NO credibility whatsoever. It’s base ‘forecast’ for the Scottish economy uses the forecasts produced by the OBR which could not forecast today’s weather if it looked through the window. The IFS then uses the ‘worst case’ OBR forecasts for oil to come to its most doom laden conclusion about Scotland’s economy 50 years into the future. Is the IFS stupid? YES! It is totally discredited.
I did like the way Alexander’s balls were caught in a vice when the reporter told him that if Scotland would be such a basket case then surely the English taxpayer would have to fund it. Cue DA struggling to find a way out of the bollocks while riding two horses at the same time. Pure gobbledegook.
Said this on the last thread, but it’s more apt here.
Are Darling et al saying that public sector spending in/for Scotland can continue to be higher than elsewhere even if we get to the point where we are no longer considered to be a net contributor in terms of tax and spending?
In the event of a NO vote we can expect the spending for Scotland budget to brought into line with UK wide spending at a rapid pace.
We will continue to pay our share of and be told we recieve the benefits of massive investments and civil service budgets centred on the South East.
On paper it will look balanced and fair but the spending available to actually spend in Scotland will be slashed.
The flatlining economy, temporarily paused by the threat of independence, will become a downward spriral, then we’ll really know our place.
I think everybody else here has said it. I just hope this clown gets voted out one way or another.
I can never forgive him, as he smiled away like a Cheshire cat in that photo, when opening up a Food Bank – http://wingsoverscotland.com/please-give-generously/
“Proud Scot”, his arse, my wife is more a proud Scot and she was born in Rhodesia.
Right …now that I’ve heard complete and inane drivel from Danny (after listening to Alistair Darling this morning during breaks between painting (I’m now trying to reseal a shower …hate it!)) …I’m away to breathe some more turpentine to see if I can cheer myself up!
1.I wish McLeish would “come out ” for independence and give us another 5% from Labour NOES. What about it Henry?
2. I wish Yes Scotland would print little business cards giving the economic truth, such cards to be distributed to friends, workmates, family, and left on buses, in stores and anywhere else that people might grasp a different story from the one on BBC/ unionist papers.
Update: half an hour after Carmichael’s invitation to a rubbishing monologue, we have another report on the SG’s “paper”: over to junior reporter – “our Scottish correspondent” who sounds as if she’s worked hard to prepare for this by using the Bumper Brownie Book of Economics for Big Girls.
Swinney is cogent and courteous: notably refrains from rubbishing anyone (including the semi-literate reporter, who’s taken “50% increase in food & drinks exports” to mean “50% increase in (all) exports”.)
Well now we know it. in the eyes of the unionist parties Scotland is officially a basket case and we cannot survive without the munificence of Westminter and the southern taxpaying public. It makes this Scot so grateful to them for knowing how charitable it has been of them to take all of the oil revenue for the past 35 years, as we’d only have done something really stupid with it – like thinking we could put the very few pennies from it into a sovereign oil reserve fund – just like those daft Norwegians! Those crazy Scots! They’ve just got to be protected from themselves for their own good!
Derek Bateman on the IFS report
http://drderekbateman.wordpress.com/2013/11/19/mediabollox-2/
Hang them High,WE are taking your names ("Tractor" - Ed)s,see you soon.Just wondering how you can be proud of a shithole,well thats what they keep saying,proud scots,Scotlands shite lol their a joke.
Danny Alexander, feed him to the Pandas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLf7Oq0hK1M
people like Alexander etc know they are spouting lies which in my opinion takes them to another level and I for one will not be forgiving or forgetting .
Danny boy forgot to tell us what benefits the Union is bringing/will bring to us. Great things we can’t do without like:
Illegal wars – Proudly bombing weaker countries back to the stone age – Nuclear bombs parked next to our most populated area – Severe austerity measures for years to come – Bedroom tax – Workfare – Atos – Means tests for pensioners – Tuition fees – Creeping privatisation of the NHS – Scrap free care for the elderly – Scrap bus passes – Prescription charges – The demonisation of people for being being unemployed – corrupt Unionist politicians – self serving lying arses like him, etc, etc.
A wee reminder of what’s going on elsewhere from Scotland Yet and good luck to them and us.
A total of 511 people donated to this campaign and we want to thank each and every one of you. We’re proud to have been able to build up support in a way that is truly grassroots and that reflects the spirit of the wider Yes movement. It is highly encouraging to know that there are so many generous and committed people on side in this campaign. With over £100,000 raised for IndyRef projects through crowd funding over the past year, we can’t think of a better advert for the strength of our cause and the kind of country that we could build once next year’s vote is won.
Henry McLeish should be asked the only pertinent question: if, as you say, you are still in the No camp, please tell us what are the aspects of the Union from which Scotland benefits? Specifics, please.
As for the Guardian, it might as well be the Daily Mail. It repeats the same mantras, displays the same ignorance of Scotland, and regards Westminster as the centre of the Universe. Pravda with a frilly dress.
The Guardian supports the LiBDems and gives Blair a voice. That doesn’t go down well with the former readership.
Most of the comments support Scottish gov policies and understand the reasons for quest for Independence in Scotland.
The readership is liberal. The editorial is hypocritical. Pity.
SG Economic report online at
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/11/2439
Vincent McDee
“The IFS has constructed an enviable reputation for objectivity. Chancellors tremble at its verdicts. So should Alex Salmond and the yes campaign”
Strangely enough – also from the Grauniad:
Richard Murphy described the IFS as having “a bias towards the neoliberal view that suggests that labour should be heavily taxed whilst capital is left virtually tax free”. He added: “Whatever the motive, the IFS’s claim to be unbiased appears to me shaky.”
Scottish patriotism is telling yourself that your are proud that Scotland is shit at everything.
The big London one o’clock news seems rather uninterested in today’s scot gov paper. Looks like they are leaving it to the wee pretendy northern outpost to misreport.
Don’t tell us what WE can’t do,tell us what YOU will do ffs.Why should we stay with those who disrespect us,rob us and generally treat us with disdain?
Danny Alexander: “I think that Scotland leaving the UK would be pretty catastrophic economically for Scotland…”
… says the MP that recently opened a food bank in his constituency.
Dear Danny,
We are already living with the consequences of an economic castastrophe (hint: it happened in 2008).
yours
Dcanmore
Proud and Patriotic Scot?
Scottish best case worse than UK worst case?
Didn’t Vince Cable’s Department pay for this report?
Alexander is many things but proud and patriotic isn’t amongst them
You know, I think I’ve figured out *why* all this “I’m a proud Scot”ing is so grating:
They’re thinking that the motivations behind the Scottish Nationalists are similar to those behind the BNP and English Nationalists. Rooted in history, family, tradition… Rooted very firmly in the *past*. That’s why they keep bringing up Wallace, they think that’s seriously part of our motivation.
Trouble is, mainstream Scottish Nationalism isn’t anything like that. It’s forward-looking, based on the idea that “we can do better than this”.
Given the choice of holding onto the past, or building towards the future, most people will choose the future if they aren’t scared off it for fear of their own livelyhoods.
Now it’s unfortunate for the people who make them, but sometimes buggy whips stop being needed. But whips are still needed today, just not for buggies 😉
(And if I was going to put a song to the Scottish Independance movement, it might be this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eolh0NJ5q2o )
He is nothing like a Scot. He isn’t even proud. He claims expenses for his children and lies about his own country. I think that’s all I need to know about him.
He says: ” I’m a proud and patriotic Scot”…….what he doesn’t say is: But I’m making a super career and loads of money out of playing the British Card so if you don’t mind let’s forget all this Independence nonsense at least until my political career is over. Thanks…….I’m not the only one BTW – big cheesy grin.
@Bugger (the Panda)
Danny Alexander, feed him to the Pandas.
Very appropriate.
@Gillie
Scottish patriotism is telling yourself that your are proud that Scotland is shit at everything.
No, the Unionists are the ones that are “talking shite”
Not for the under 16’s or those with a weak disposition.
The tactic for them is to win the referendum at all costs. Nothing they say is off the cuff – a minister as senior as Alexander will have his minders making sure he stays on-message; so to them the message of a basket case Scotland is one that they think will play well with the undecided Scots. Even the proud Scot thing is political spin. But is it working? Well it may be with some of my agricultural students. About nine of them were talking in class today about voting no in the referendum and when I asked them why it all came out – the Alexander message; to quote – ’15 years down the line we’ll be broke and then what will we do?’; ‘We could never be a successful nation – we just don’t have it in us’; ‘What does Scotland produce? We don’t have anything’; ‘What’ll we do when the oil runs out – no we need England to survive’ and so on. Now these students are sons and daughters of Scottish farmers some coming from farms which have roots going back hundreds of years – they come from the Highlands, Lowlands, Borders, Orkney – all parts of Scotland. And if you met them you couldn’t help but feel proud that they are the sons and daughters of our Scotland. So where does the negativity and lack of confidence about their country come from? I must admit I was non-plussed and we had a bit of a discussion about where their ideas and thoughts were coming from. They couldn’t say how they had formed the opinions about Scotland so I concluded it must come down to year after year of hearing politicians like the proud Scot Alexander pour scorn on our nation and its ability to detach itself from the apron strings of mother England.
So what then is he to be proud of?
… a proud and patriotic Scot.
Liar.
How about a wee bit cheery news?
Six months ago a friend was a no.
Four months later was a doubtful mibees aye mibees naw.
Today during a conversation she was a committed yes and is now converting her friends and family.
Result!
@ Hewitt83
People are buying this shite though. And that is a big, big problem.
Got to disagree with you bud. If the media bias was as powerful at swaying Scots as a few wings commenters thought, the SNP would never ever had won that landslide election.
In order for people to have voted the SNP into parliament they had to ignore huge amounts of media nonsense the likes of which we are seeing now.
As a nation, Scotland is probably the most badly served in the western world by its media. It has a media that is wholly owned by people who have no interest in her peoples wellbeing, and a media that can lie through its teeth without fear of challenge in court or by any standards body.
This has been noticed by the people of Scotland and has resulted in unprecedented numbers of people who are turning away from the MSM and turning to the ‘on-line media’.
If you look at the numbers involved, and consider that for England to have a similar media outlet it would need to attract ten times the numbers of Scottish outlets in the same time frame, it begins to indicate just how people are being tuned in to the bias.
Just keep asking any undecided if they have ever heard of Wings or Newsnet etc, and if they say no just suggest that they give it a try.
the increase in monthly figures of people who are turning to the Nationalist On Line sites, as well as the month on month fall in readership numbers that are reported by the MSM, is testimony to the fact that more people are becoming fed up with our MSM.
So don’t let them get you down mate, just print off some of the advertising materials and post them through some doors or leave them on buses etc. with thousands doing this all over Scotland the message will eventually get ‘out there’
We know that when people get the message they turn from No straight to Yes. (several recent debates has saw this happen)
So don’t get mad, get even! 🙂
Mosstrooper – oh no, she’s spreading the virus!! 🙂
Jopparocks, pick them off one at a time. Why not try my method of convincing them:
First, I explain to them how the powers that be have been lying to them since the day they were born – McCrone report, HMRC tax return figures etc. Try to get them angry about that.
Next, show them how they and their country have suffered as a consequence – missed opportunities, personal loss of wealth and so on.
Get them annoyed about media bias. How these things you’ve just told them are never/hardly shown in the papers or on TV.
Say “Isn’t it boring how all we ever get is doom and gloom from the news?”
Explain how we have achieved so much so far with the Scottish Parliament – free personal care, no tuition fees, no bridge tolls, public owned health service, no prescription charges, etc,etc.. Say how you think it’s so important that we don’t LOSE these things and go back to the bad old days.
Finally, give them the idea that with independence we could build on these things and make our country better yet. ie give them HOPE
I don’t always go through these steps in one sitting. Sometimes it takes weeks. Everyone has got one or two things they are most interested/concerned about. Find out what that is and concentrate on it. Use it to pull them forward to a YES.
Once one myth is debunked then they start to doubt the others. I find most people really don’t like being lied to. Once one or two of your colleagues are converted the others will follow.
Don’t be put off by their negative attitudes to Scotland, it comes from ignorance only. Look upon it as challenge for you to enlighten them.
Have fun!
Sorry Rev, That last post was a bit of a mess.
Cal – great advice – thats what I call a positive attitude.
Danny boy really is a worthless individual – as put earlier, at least Mandy Rice-Davis was an honest-to-goodness whore, whereas oor Danny boy has more faces than the toon clock and his self-aggrandizing is purely wretched.
His is one political head (Scots) that I look forward to seeing totally humbled – but even as I write ‘humbled’ – it strikes me a being an incapability, since a degree of self-respect is needed to function such emotion and poor Danny has ditched that value long ago for the ‘offishul mondeo’. The total wipe-out of these shocking Lib-Dems has to be on the cards and not before time. Is there a more appropriate collective term for a ‘pain of political prostitutes’?
Barontorc
A Bordello?
A Disorderly House?
It looks like Alexander’s policy of defrauding taxpayers out of their welfare benefits and opening up foodbanks to feed them instead isn’t working –
Number of people suffering malnutrition surges
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/11/18/number-of-people-suffering-malnutrition-surges
Inclusion Scotland says on its Facebook that despite malnutrition doubling, we should look on the bright side, executive pay is up 14% –
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/18/executive-pay-up-14-percent
Hewitt83 at 11.43
I don’t think people are buying this shit at all. Even the much maligned “Scottish” press (except the Beano aka the Express) isn’t buying it. Inside page in the Record, inside page in the Herald, virtually no mention at all in the Sun. This IFS report is so flawed it has already bombed execept with those that believed all that guff already.
Only the doggedly determined BBC is headlining it. This is the “respected” IFS think tank that missed our present economic catastrophe completely
If I recall correctly his previous job was as PR manager for Loch Lomond National Park so he is obviously well qualified to pontificate on matters economic and fiscal.
What the IFS report appears to say is that if we went independent and continued to let Westminster decide how it should be spent we would not do very well.
Usually when these arses describe themselves as “proud Scot’s” they neglect to mention that they are also “WEALTHY” under the present wastemonster system and will say anything to keep their snouts in the trough!
As a proud and patriotic Latvian, I would like to say that I as an individual am too thick to understand anything. In addition, I can’t actually do anything, and all my family, relatives, friends, neighbours and acquaintances are the same. I dread to think what would happen if the Soviet Union stopped looking after our best interests, because we surely couldn’t. NO to Estonian independence. Better Together. SU:OK.Yours in unity,Daniels Alexanders
Other similar statements of inherent and congenital incapacity available upon request from proud and patriotic Norwegians, Finns, Estonians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Croatians, Slovenians, Montenegrins, Slovaks, Czechs, Poles, Serbians, Bosnians, Kosovars et al.
If Scotland’s economic outlook is so bad then why does Westminster not want us to vote yes and get rid of the sponging Scotts and again if it is correct, do we want to live in a country which will, in a number of years, rely on handouts from Westminster to keep us going!
Their biggest fear is that we vote YES, find out whats really been going on and manage to do things better, providing a catalyst for an overthrough of the Westminster gravy train by Ruk!
Just listened to BBC Scotland radio news reporting on the white paper. A few words then full rein to Alistair Carmichael to attack it and reference the “hugely respected” IFS again. No person from the Scottish Government features
We need to learn that since the evolution of the industrial revolution, the names of Scottish people are enshrined in inventions that make up today’s modern world. We are an innovative nation that would strive, and make a success of anything we put our minds to. We also need to know that Scots are among the people who are developing oil platforms to drill deeper into the North Sea, to reach the abundant oil fields we know are there, but the technology to reach them hasn’t. But we are nearly there. It would also be of benefit of the doubters to realise that the oil revenue in an independent Scotland, the billions it would bring in would be shared by 6 million people, not the 70 million as it is the now.
Is saying “the UK prediction is better” really any different from saying “the independent Scotland prediction is worse”?
I’m somewhat on the fence here, but this obsession with negative campaigning, from both sides, is completely besides the point. A negative argument is just as valid as a positive one, the only thing that matters is how accurate it is.
I think the long game has become a lot shorter. This crap has influenced a hell of a lot of people. Can it be reversed in 302 Days ?
Vidkun Quisling was a proud Norwegian before he was hanged for treason. He was also awarded a CBE for services to the UK, would you believe. Good old Danny – stood as a Scottish Liberal, sits with the English Tories. Seems to have forgotten that he did his own economic survey of an independent Scotland and decided that we would each be a pound a year worse off.
“I’m somewhat on the fence here, but this obsession with negative campaigning, from both sides, is completely besides the point.”
It’s nothing to do with negative campaigning per se. It’s about campaigning negatively while screaming from the rooftops that you’re not. It’s about saying you’re a “proud Scot” in the same breath as saying Scotland’s a piece of shite that couldn’t possibly survive without being bailed out by the generous UK.
Question for Danny Alexander:
Is 5 years in a ministerial mondeo worth 40 subsequent years of contempt from your fellow Scots?
Edit: 20 years of contempt – Scots age faster and die younger.
Edit: 40 years of contempt. You are not a Scot, proud or otherwise, you are a British Nationalist.
He and his side-kick Darling made me quite ill with their manipulations and gleeful faces yesterday. disgusting horrible men!
They have fear for their own future not for ours.With them I fear for our future.All these pieces of humanity are interested in is the gongs and self gratification lining their own pockets and how big a lie that they can convince some people to believe.
When are we all going to learn that this is all a play-on-words game?
Independence does NOT mean Scotland “leaving the UK”. The UK will still exist post-independence. Scotland will have an independent parliament WITHIN the realm known as the UK (United KIngdom). Not the sovereign state of the UK… but the realm!
What Alexander, Cameron, Darling and their cohorts are saying is: If Scotland takes the ultimate step to republicanism, it may very well suffer economically and in a range of other big constitutional matters like security, naval contracts etc. And I for one agree!
What they are taking about is another matter entirely from what a Yes vote on September 18th will deliver. They are scaremongering on the possible outcomes of leaving the UK after a referendum on republicanism. And the issues they raise are worth consideration from that perspective…. but NOT from the perspective of regaining our parliamentary sovereignty, which is an absolute must!
The whole benefit of independence is that we will be governed via an independent sovereign parliament, yet remain within the security umbrella that is the UK realm and commonwealth and so will benefit from that combination of unifying factors.
What we need to be rid of is the UK sovereign state, of which Westminster retains control.
We need to fight this battle from the perspective of retention of the UK realm, because of we don’t, the NO lot will outflank us with this talk of republicanism…. and we NEED the votes of those who believe in Scotland as a Kingdom, as well as a nation, country and sovereign state.
JOCK – You assume too much in respect of their intelligence to work that way. None of he “realm” stuff is considered in their continual insults to the people of Scotland!
I don’t believe a word out that ginger pricks mouth!
He obviously wasn’t listening when his party colleague from the Northern Isles, (another proud and patriotic Scot, strangely enough), delivered the homily on patronising lectures and scare stories without any basis in fact whatsoever. Neither was he listening when David Cameron said it would be wrong to suggest Scotland could be anything other than a very prosperous and successful nation. Either that or it was just flannel on the part of both of the aforementioned. Or both. What does anyone think?
Imagine being proud of a country that you believe, despite being oil rich, couldn’t run itself without going broke and running to England (yeah, broke England) for help.
Imagine a Norwegian having that little faith in himself.
Still Danny is doing his best to get himself a nice safe English Tory seat for 2015 when his proud and patriotic Scottish constituents tell him to sod off. You can’t blame him. He must have got very used to that massive salary, expenses and the chauffeured car.
It’s all true , and we are shit, he is only telling us all this because he loves us and he dose not want us to get hurt. “That will be right” it’s all lies and they are shitting it
big time.. if it’s all going to go pear shaped why would Westminster give a toss, they would never bail us out any way, so I’am pretty sure it’s all about what they are going to lose …££££££££££££ AND NOT TO MENTION THERE JOBS AT WESTMINSTER.
Bill, I appreciate many might like to believe that, but there is no end to the skullduggery, sophistry, trickery and deviousness our establishment will go to to confuse and befuddle the electorate and ensnare the unwary.
But these people are in office and are duty-bound to tell their version of the truth, so that leaves us with scope to contextualise their words. Once you look at it from the point of view of potential republicanism… their words are not that far from being right.
What we must all realise is, they’re not talking about post-referendum independence and all the economic comment is based on external sources (“think tanks”), not published government figures!
Over at Munguin’s republic, Braveheart wants us to give him reasons why we want out of the union. He has apparently been living in Mrs Lamont’s bunker for the last 2 years as doesn’t know.
The wee liberal is a ("Quizmaster" - Ed)…. Like so many of his ilk…..will jump into bed with anyone who can pay his going rate…. BUT….. Sky news obviously invited him along to give his views ….. So… The answer is to boycott Sky news…. as they are so far up the unionist camp that the soles of their slippers are the only part visible”…….
Beaker is out on his arse come the next general election so his only hope is that Scotland votes no & the LibDems parachute him into some English constituency.
No shortage of dodgy (in sexual & financial matters) LibDems to choose from, bound to be one of those need booting out during the next (Westminster) parliament.
Can anybody else remember the young Liberal MP from Fife who had some discussions with the police following some incident in a public toilet
I can’t see this video. It says it’s not available in my location. They haven’t taken it off cos it was so embarrassing have they?
I have become concerned with any politician who begins by defending a “study” before making a point. I now find myself searching the internet when “think tank” is mentioned to find names and associates of such a report. Giving that this muppet is part of the Treasury does he really need “think tanks” as in good ole USA because no one believes a feckin word anymore!?