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The Lord Ignoble

Posted on January 27, 2018 by

(In case you missed this particular twist.)

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    1. 27 01 18 07:56

      The Lord Ignoble | speymouth

    132 to “The Lord Ignoble”

    1. Croompenstein says:

      For Foulkes sake Chris.. brilliant 🙂

    2. Lollysmum says:

      Impossible to argue with that Chris. It’s exactly the way the FM is treated by the media, has-been & never will be politicians.

    3. heedtracker says:

      Tragicomic. Ultimate yoon dream, although Spain’s fascists are living that UKOK yoon dream.

    4. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Responses such as that from the noble Lord, plus what is currently the most-read story in the Herald this morning, clearly indicate how esperate the Yoons are becoming.

      They know they are losing. They are well-aware the stumblebums in the Tory government are making Independence more-inevitable, sooner, and they are in a blind panic.

      But, desperate people, do desperate things – we in the Independence movement need to be ever more-vigilant, we need to up our game even more, and victory will be ours – then the real battle will start: turning around 300-years of misrule and neglect and getting Scotland moving forward.

    5. Dorothy Devine says:

      Yep! Perfectly sums up our “media’ and ‘judiciary’ – shameful/shameless ( never could sort those two out , maybe they’re both)

      That said , this cartoon didn’t even give me a wry smile just a sad acknowledgement of the way things are.

    6. Scott says:

      A brilliant cartoon. Sums up the politics of the situation with laser-like accuracy.

    7. Jim Morris says:

      In England the Union Jack is flown when the Queen is not there. When she is, they fly the Royal Standard.. Why all the fuss that the Scottish Royal Standard is fit for purpose in Scotland?

    8. Grouse Beater says:

      That’s about it, Chris. compose a fabrication, publish the lie, cause a controversy, hope mud sticks. There’s no smoke with out fire, et cetera. (Actually, there is.)

      This week provided the perfect example of a press out to undermine an elected government. Here’s a timely warning:

      Your essential weekend reading:

      The Scottish press – What price integrity?:
      Those Bloody Cyclists – time to pay:

    9. Valerie says:

      The disgusting creature, given numerous platforms to spout his hatred.

      What kind of life have you lived in your twilight years, when its spent in bitter, bitter hatred, and pedling lies?

      I would ask to be euthanised first.

    10. Bob Mack says:

      Yes Chris. That is exactly the situation. Many Unionists come to the table with preconceived ,prepacked ideas of what the SNP are trying to achieve. If they only spent a little time challenging their own preconceptions they would find differently.
      Of course many are unable to do that for a variety of reasons.

      Comparing the Government’s of England and Scotland leaves little doubt about who is actually better, and that is their problem. To actually examine the facts would destroy their view of the world and they would have to admit that fact.

      Even in the face of the harshest realities they still try to avoid facing these truths.

      I believe that is why politics in Scotland eventually turns to hating personalities rather than focus on is all they have left to hold up their ever crumbling facade.

    11. Macart says:

      Neatly done Chris.

      He really does tick all the boxes doesn’t he?

    12. louis.b.argyll says:

      George Foulkes! (Shudders)

      Gets his red nose by spending so many years at the ‘bar’.

    13. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Oh, it’s Liar Carmichael redux…

      (The sententious mind-reader twins.)

    14. heedtracker says:

      The Scottish press – What price integrity?

      Great read GB. Completely impossible to even imagine it all today, here in Scotland at least, as BBC Scotland are going to get the SNP out eventually. Its what professional liars are for.

      BBC led tory press gimps in Scotland are Scotland region tory king/queen makers but its been an interesting week listening beeb r4 gimp network, Orange Hitler wise in Davos.

      It’s all great, Trump’s great, Trump loves the UK, Mrs May is huge, Mrs May loves Trump explain the BBC and chums but they forgot to mention the mass rolling anti Trump protests in Zurich too.

    15. Conan the Librarian says:

      From the Herald, 1993

      “LABOUR MP George Foulkes was yesterday charged with assaulting a

      police officer and being drunk and disorderly after an incident last

      month outside the House of Commons. The issue could threaten his future [hah!]

      on the Front Bench.

      Mr Foulkes, 51, was bailed by police to appear before Bow Street

      magistrates on September 9. The MP for Carrick, Cumnock, and Doon Valley

      arrived at Charing Cross police station on the back of a motor cycle.

      A Scotland Yard spokesman said the MP was charged with being drunk and

      disorderly, contrary to the Criminal Justice Act, and with assaulting Mr

      John Williams, a constable in the Metropolitan Police, in the execution

      of his duty, contrary to the Police Act of 1951.

      Mr Foulkes could not be reached for comment yesterday. A woman

      answering the telephone at his home in Ayr said: ”I’m afraid there is

      no comment on that.” He is married with two sons and a daughter.

      He was arrested on July 21 after attending a Westminster reception

      held by the Scotch Whisky Association. He was returning on foot to the

      Commons with other MPs when the incident occurred. An elderly woman

      involved in the incident was taken to hospital

      The day after his arrest, Mr Foulkes, a member of Labour’s Front Bench

      defence team, was missing from defence questions in the House,

      There has been speculation that the issue could jeopardise Mr

      Foulkes’s chances of promotion to the Shadow Cabinet.

      * Any MP convicted of an offence may be expelled from the Commons if the House so decides.”

    16. dave Stewart says:

      Maybe the rough script for the next SNP broadcast.

      Theresa May promises

      1 Oct 2017 – The government will find an extra £10bn for the Help to Buy scheme to let another 135,000 people get on the property ladder, Theresa May has said. The extra cash will help buyers get a mortgage with a deposit of as little as 5% to buy newly built homes.

      18 Dec 2017 – LONDON — Theresa May has promised MPs she will make “rapid” progress on a Brexit transition deal, as she set out the UK government’s plans for the next phase of Brexit negotiations

      7 Jan 2018 – UK prime minister Theresa May has promised to make “some changes” to her cabinet, in a move designed to show her commitment to promoting new faces within the Conservative party.

      4 Oct 2017 – Housing groups are welcoming the PM’s announcement

      Theresa May’s promises to Northern Ireland. Letter pledges to ‘uphold and support Northern Ireland’s status as an integral part of the United Kingdom.

      4 Oct 2017 – Theresa May has promised to put a price cap on “rip-off” energy bills, reversing the U-turn that saw her abandon the idea just a few months ago

      15 Nov 2017 – Theresa May will promise to take “personal charge” of solving the housing crisis
      16 Nov 2017 – Theresa May will promise to take “personal charge” of solving the housing crisis
      22 Nov 2017 – Theresa May has promised to “maintain and improve” animal welfare standards in the UK
      Theresa May promises free vote in bid to overturn fox hunting ban.
      Theresa May promises ‘strong and stable leadership’.

      Theresa May unveiled plans for a ‘generation of new council houses’.

      9 Oct 2017 – THERESA May has reiterated her desire to create a bespoke new economic relationship with the European Union (EU) after Brexit and says Britain will be prepared for ‘every eventuality.

      22 Sep 2017 – THERESA May this afternoon offered to continue paying Brussels cash for two more years AFTER the Brexit deadline in a bold £20bn bid

      4 Oct 2017 – The Prime Minister Theresa May has promised to publish a new draft bill setting out plans for an energy price cap which applies to standard variable tariffs. In her keynote address to the Conservative party conference in Manchester, the Prime Minister said the bill would be published next week

      30 Sep 2017 – The Prime Minister has promised German Chancellor Angela Merkel that any exit treaty will enshrine the rights of EU nationals living in the UK

      29 Sep 2017 – THERESA May has told supporters that this year’s party conference will bring a fairer deal for Britain.

      19 Jan 2018 – Theresa May has agreed to fast-track asylum claims from Calais migrants as part of a deal to keep British border posts on French soil. Extra £44m to France for fencing.

      6 Dec 2017 – Theresa May has pledged to protect the “constitutional integrity” of the UK

      8 Dec 2017 – Theresa May promises to uphold Northern Ireland peace process as Brexit impasse ends

      17 Jan 2018 – Theresa May made a vow to the children of murdered MP Jo Cox to wipe out loneliness in her memory

      Theresa May pledges to help schools and companies deal with the “injustice” of mental illness.

      18 May 2017 – Theresa May declared “there is no Mayism” today as she broke with the Tory past.

      17 Jan 2017 – Britain will leave the European Union’s single market and seek a new free trade deal with the bloc

      10 Jul 2017 – A lot has changed since Theresa May delivered her first speech as prime minister a year ago. After seeing off the prospect of a Tory contest, the newly-coronated leader pledged to put the families who were ‘just about managing’ at the centre of everything her government did

      12 Jun 2017 – Theresa May has reportedly promised to get the Tories ‘out of the mess she created’

      9 Jan 2017 – Prime Minister Theresa May will today promise to eradicate the “completely unacceptable stigma” surrounding mental illness,

      17 Jan 2017 – The UK will not be “half in, half out” of the EU after Brexit, the Prime Minister will say today in a speech promising “certainty and clarity”

      (3 September 2016). “Theresa May promises a golden era of relations between Britain and China after Brexit

      Mrs May took office as the UK’s second female Prime Minister with the promise to create “a country that works for everyone”

      prime minister Theresa May has vowed to put worker representatives on boards of major companies and to impose stricter limits on executive pay.

      The Prime Minister has said she’ll get rid of human rights laws which stop her from tackling terrorism

      ‘Theresa May promises life sentences for gun suppliers’, Mrs May said those supplying guns were ‘as guilty’ as those using them

      Theresa May promises no fight over Gibraltar

      Theresa May promised voters a Brexit boost of billions of pounds in state investment to support business, transport and housing

      Theresa May promised on Sunday to challenge any “unacceptable” talk when she meets President Donald Trump

      Theresa May Promises Economic Uncertainty and a Hard Brexit.

      04 December 2013 Theresa May, Promises To “Address The Gaps” In The Government’s Response To Extremism

      14 May 2017 – A PLEDGE to raise the national living wage in line with average earnings over the next five years

      “Theresa May Promises ‘Significant’ Reform of Counter-Terror Law,

      Theresa May promises ‘strong leadership’ in the face of Brexit

      Theresa May promised to listen more closely to business concerns about Britain leaving the European Union

      Prime Minister Theresa May has promised to set out in detail for the first time her government’s plan for leaving the European Union.

      Britain’s Brexit plans will put science and innovation first, Prime Minister Theresa May has pledged

      Theresa May promised on Wednesday to listen more to businesses’ concerns about Brexit

      Theresa May is promising what she says would be the biggest expansion of workers’ rights by any Conservative government in history

      Prime Minister Theresa May has promised a “proper investigation” following the Grenfell Tower fire

      Theresa May Promises Child Abuse Inquiry with “Maximum Transparency”

      Theresa May made a pitch for the political centre ground. Addressing the nation on the steps of Number 10, she praised David Cameron’s achievements in the field of social justice and vowed to stand up for the many against “the privileged few”

      Theresa May has promised that her party will abolish internet access in the UK, replacing it with a government-monitored internet where privacy tools are banned and online services will be required to vet all users.

      Theresa May promised over and over again that there would be no General Election before 2020. So we know that she doesn’t feel she needs to keep her word – even though keeping her word was supposed to be part of her personal brand.

      Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe

      Or as my old Mum says You’ll get your reward later.

    17. HandandShrimp says:

      The conceit is that the Lords is a good thing because it is above party politics and is populated by the brightest and best.

      The truth is rather more Foulkes shaped. An old soak driven purely by party jealousy and willing to believe any old guff if it confirms his prejudices.

    18. One_Scot says:

      In all honesty, just imagine Scotland just missing out on Independence and having to suffer this for the rest of your life. No seriously, try it, it will break your heart.

    19. Morgatron says:

      Spot on Chris, even down to the old pissers quarter gill snib. Im now getting to the opinion that the elections for Holyrood MSPs should be 1st past the post and bin PR. Half of these arses should be in a position of any kind- Fraser – Leonard – Tank Girl- oh man the list is endless.

    20. In true Hogarth tradition there is absolutely nothing funny in this sketch.
      This former drunk sits down in England, a greasy spot on the History of Scotland..
      With your sublime craft you plot the death rattle of Tony Blair’s/ Gordon Brown’s ‘Harlot’, New Labour, Cool Fucking Britannia.
      The Harlot’s Progress, to the House of Lairds, £300 a day, red bras and £200 a night white powdered ‘sex trade workers’ cocaine debauchery, Dolphin Square paedophile cover ups, drunken arsonists destroying hotel rooms, fiddling expenses, flipping houses, and laughing at anybody in the last 50 years that voted Labour.
      The Last Days of the English Empire.
      There is no going back. The Union is dead.
      We shall not be moved. We have overcome.
      Sheer brilliance, Chris.

    21. PictAtRandom says:

      Meanwhile, in The Herald, Fluffy says
      “It beggars belief that, at a time when children’s hospital wards are being closed, educational standards are falling and Police Scotland is in chaos, the priority of the First Minister of Scotland is flags.”

      Elsewhere in The Herald one Martin Williams ‘Senior News Reporter’ asks “Why did it take eight years for Scots ministers to confirm Union flag curb?”

      Devilishly difficult to deal with that sort of pincer movement,

    22. Clootie says:

      …so why do the Scottish Government keep playing to the MSM rules?

      They are not journalists. They are the propaganda agents of London. To follow the protocols for media access continues to massage their self importance. The myth that a newspaper can be trusted because of its age is nonsense and on a par with the BBCs “trusted reputation” pitch.

      Who decided that the MSM provided the truth….they did!

      The entire “Fake News” arguement has been taken over by the MSM with relish. They will argue that they are the beacon of light and the Internet can produce only lies. The reality when you look at Newspaper stories / Pathe news / Radio broadcasts / TV news reports from 40/50/60 years ago we have been lied to for years.

      If you are a journalist with integrity then you will be an unemployed journalist. The media is controlled by the state or a few wealthy individuals.
      The UK government will set up or encourage “extreme blogs” to discredit the Internet to keep you tied to the controlled outlets.

      Find Internet sites you trust, look for evidence links and make up your own mind.

      If you must read the rags remember the Revs rule ….. Read past the headline, do the contents reflect the banner and does the story have an identified source.

    23. Socrates MacSporran says:

      PictAtRandom @9.28am

      To answer Martin Williams’ question, albeit from a different angle: Because it took the Yoons eight years to realise they were so-devoid of further scare stories. They didn’t previously need to use this one to try to scare the Scots into staying with England.

    24. heedtracker says:

      Jack collatin

      Awe, dont leave out this clown.

      Never forget, Lady Mone of Mayfair has far more power in her Scotland region today than any Scot in Scotland.

    25. Ken500 says:

      The criminal, thieving unelected ‘Lords’ who sold Scotland down the river. The Thatcher corruption, the Barnet Formula The McCrone Report. Iraq, Lockerbie, Dunblane kept hidden for 100 years. Guilty as charged. Still at it. Most of them should be in jail. Just disgusting. They should hang their heads in shame. Miserable liars. £Billions wasted on these miserable specimens, whose only purpose is to deceive. Warmongering liars. The HoL should have been abolished long ago. Not full of unelected clones..

    26. Craig P says:

      A great opportunity to reprise the cracker about Lord Foulkes walking down Westminster’s pavements ‘undulating like the sea’ – anybody got a copy?

    27. Helena Brown says:

      Now is the description Labour Lord not some thing of a misnomer?
      Strange that they seem today to support the political system and the part they were supposed to oppose. Methinks that they are all, those in the Commons and those in the Lords,too fond of what the Establishment can give them.
      An excellent cartoon Chris, they never miss.

    28. colin alexander says:

      Poor Nicola, I know the feeling, hen. Falsely accused all the time.

      I have repeatedly said: I think independence would be the best option for Scotland. If there were an indyref, I would vote YES to independence.

      If there were an election where the SNP sought a mandate from the sovereign people of Scotland to dissolve the Union and re-establish an independent Scotland, they would get my vote, without a shadow of doubt. In 2014 much of what was written in the was based around the SOVEREIGN PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND.

      This exact phrase “sovereign people” is mentioned twice.

      Well, this sovereign people voted Remain. ( But we all know the whole EU-Ref was only advisory. MPs made the decision to leave the EU, not the people of the UK).

      Any indyref would be advisory too, unless Westminster legislated by statute – an act of parliament – that the result will be LEGALLY BINDING on all parties before the indyref is held. There’s no chance that’s going to happen.

      It appears the legal action to try and stop Brexit is regarding the meaning of Article 50. Whether, the UK can unilaterally stop the Brexit process started by Article 50 being triggered or whether it requires approval from all the EU members.

      If the SNP et al can take court action to establish the courts’ interpretation of Article 50, why not court action to establish the meaning of the Treaties and Acts of Union and Claim of Right and how they apply to Scottish sovereignty within the UK.

      Whether Westminster ( including unelected Lords) can legally claim sovereignty over Scotland’s people or whether that is also a political convention that has no legal basis?

      The answers would establish the right or not to hold a LEGALLY BINDING indyref.

      Or whether Westminster sovereignty can legally overrule everything, including the democratic will of the people.

      The clock is ticking. If the SNP wait till they WIN an indyref and the Unionists make a legal challenge then or just refuse to recognise what they would insist is an advisory indyref, it would cause turmoil, leaving Scotland in limbo.

    29. handclapping says:

      Its not like you to get your colouring wrong Chris. The nose, way out!

      There’s a real sting in that tale; we’ve got to get out of this place

    30. PictAtRandom says:

      I think it must be the Court of Sessions.


    31. Bob Mack says:

      I am sitting here chortling away at the Herald. “Why oh why did it take 8 years for the Scottish government to tell the public about the flags we pass everyday.

      Might like to address the question to..

      Buckingham Palace

      The real question is “Why oh why did you let us make fools of ourselves by not telling us something we were not really interested in the first place”

    32. galamcennalath says:

      Another great Saturday cartoon!

      Foulkes claimed that the flag story was believed because, like the French ambassador story, it was believable.

      Doh, no. Neither story was believable, well not by anyone with a functioning brain.

      Nicola is not perfect, however compared to the likes of Foulkes she is in a whole different league. She is far more careful and measured in her speech and actions. She may not be beyond mistakes, but she won’t make the cockups expected from the likes of Foulkes and cronies!

      Foulkes judges Nicola by the low standards he sees around himself.

    33. Bob Mack says:


      I like that, The Court of Bevvysessions” One assize fits all.

    34. Ken500 says:

      John McDonnell reported at Davos lecturing another country about squandering Oil revenues. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Fifty years of lying Labour. A bunch of hypocrites,

    35. Les Roches says:

      This week has seen some exceptional work published on Wings and I will definitely up my monthly contribution when the new fund raiser is due.
      Keep up the great and important work of pressuring the liars and my very best regards and thanks to all that contribute to site.

    36. Clydebuilt says:

      Haggardty. . . . . The BBC’s favourite representative of (supposed) Indy media is once again on the Shareen . Nanjiani’s mornin Radio program.

    37. Calum McKay says:

      So true!

      Hopefully this is the start of the Scottish Govermment taking the press and bbc to task ober the lies they publish, state and restate.

      A bruiser needs to be put up to face the press down, Keith Brown has been excellent at this role on the limited occasions he has been unleashed.

      Every government needs someone to do this job, labour in past have used John Reid, Frank Dobson and Alastair Campbell, the tories use multiple senior mps.

      Nicola, in football terms, we need to get stuck right into them!

    38. headtracker @9.39, as they say, ‘the list is not exhaustive’.
      There is no going back.
      The last helicopter is on the St. Andrew’s House Roof.
      Mundell’s Press Corps led by the Michty Magnus and supervised by Lord Ian Duncan is busily shredding documents and stealing packs of A4 copy paper.
      It feels like the Fall of the Corrupt Hanoi Government.
      They write about flags and clog up Parliamentary Business making it legal once again for the endomorphs to Fuck The Pope and the Queen once more, and Lord Reid and Brian Wilson, good international Socialists that they never were, sit up in The Emperor’s Box surveying the Circus Maximus full to bursting as the Christians are torn to shred by the Yoon Lions.
      Which one was hired as the Minister’s new PPS? The one with the big tits.

    39. jfngw says:

      If there was any doubt that the majority of the MSM are working hand in hand with the Tories to bring down an elected government then this week has washed away any of these doubts. This includes the two broadcasters in Scotland, willing to be the messengers of any Tory propaganda.

    40. heedtracker says:

      Jack collatin

      It feels like the Fall of the Corrupt Hanoi Government.

      Maybe Jack, maybe. BBC Scotland is going to take down SNP Scots gov though. Its always been the way here in their UK. Tory beeb led media gimps really are the power deciders.

      To be fair though, beeb Scotland gimps are really just a wing of a vast BBC tory propaganda machine, in cahoots with all the local and national professional liar networks, dripping off their newsstands at the front door of all the supermarkets, everywhere.

      Look at how Strong and Stable Teresa’s UK gov has cycled through an endless parade of sacked, quit, disappeared ministers since Brexit. Its all a rolling catastrofuck and yet, as per, their beeb gimp network is mute.

      And across the pond, Orange Hitler’s got all kinds of sex scandals pouring out now, porn star shagger Orange Hitler’s the latest, today.

      Here in teamGB, beeb gimp network, mute.

    41. ronnie anderson says:

      Aye Lordy Foulkes has long since been called to the bar ( at TaxPayers expense ) & not because of his legal acumen .

      Brillian Toon Chris , that will keep the pot boiling I hope Wingers share on every medium , this story has the potential to do much damage to Mundell & Tereza . ( Misinforming Parliament ) I hope Nicola has sent a letter to Westminster demanding a apology & have that backed up by the SNP MPs demanding the same from the benches .

    42. Ian McCubbin says:

      Totally agree with Socrates McSporran.
      Can I just add stir here.
      I think WM should pay the £30M needed for a tunnel through Birnam Hill to get that part of A9 duelling resolved and gie the folk o Birnam and Dunkeld peace.

    43. Bill McLean says:

      Jim Morris 8.08am. For info Union Jack is only flown on ships. On land it is called the “Union Flag”. I’d rather never see it again no matter what they call it!

    44. Ken500 says:

      The Tory liars are reportedly to be secretly extending the Brexit transition period to three years. When they will be out of office? Leaving their mess behind them for others to pick up. As per usual. Trying to get away with it. The Brexit mess they have created. Wasting £Billions. Getting away with murder to line their own pockets. People dying on the streets.

      The Defence secretary who replaced the groping Defence Secretary has been groping as well. The Tory way. The ‘families’? Cabinet member with £25Million offshored. Shamed at the groping Dinner.

    45. Fred says:

      Drunk & pished himself I believe!

    46. gus1940 says:

      Surely ‘Corrupt Saigon Government’ NOT ‘Hanoi’ and ‘Last Helicopter From The Roof Of Dover House’ NOT ‘St. Andrew House’.

    47. Jim Morris says:

      Thanks Bill, as a land-locked lanarkshire person I did know the difference and apologise for talking down to those who don’t.

    48. winifred mccartney says:

      Haggerty on BBC again this morning, twice on politics shows last week – is she the go to indy person because she is at the very most middle of the road and never says anything that will remotely annoy labour but snp is fair game. That is why she is on so much, it allows the bbc to pretend it is not biased.

      Poor tories so busy doing the day job in slow motion since it took them 8 years to notice the flag change. RD deliberately going for OO vote and JK going for the sectarian vote – neither give a toss for the majority but only for their ‘party’. Well now we have a jackiebaillie for a lie and a jameskelly for a sectarian rant and the volume will surely be turned up.

      Why not just take the word ‘football’ out of the act and let it cover behaviour all large events sporting or not.

    49. Sunshine says:

      I seem to remember, about ten years ago, that the SNP were going to change the law that forced councils to put notices in newspapers about road changes etc. There was such a furore about it from the newspaper owners, because of the advertising revenue loss, that it was dropped. Maybe in this time of austerity and online use, this should be looked at again. Maybe someone else can remember the exact details, but why does the government keep helping to enable the funding of these newspapers?

    50. jfngw says:

      Did I see a Green MSP claiming how proud he was to give a voice to free speech by making bigotry at football perfectly legal. I hope he has the same opinion in all free speech then, so when will he be putting forward a proposal to remove hate speech laws, or is he just a hypocritical show-boater.

    51. gus1940 says:

      There is some confusion re Flaggate.

      The Royal Standard has nothing to do with this week’s nonsense.

      The quartered flag which has English and Scottish versions is flown above whatever building she graces with her presence to indicate the presence of the Monarch.

      This week’s nonsense is about which flag to fly on Government Buildings and when.

      The clarified rules are that except for Remembrance Day when The Union Flag will be flown it will be the Scotiish Royal Flag i.e. The Lion Rampant.

      If you cast your mind back 20 years remember the stushie when Diana was killed and the Queen was at Balmoral – there was no flag flying at Buck House to be lowered to Half Mast as the norm at that time was that the only flag there was The Royal Standard when she was in residence.

      It was hurriedly decided to placate public outrage and run up The Union Flag at Half Mast until she returned from Balmoral.

      That became the normal situation re HMs presence.

      It does raise the following question – ‘What flag flies at Holyrood Palace and Balmoral when she is not in residence?’.

      Is it The Union Flag or is it The Lion Rampant?

    52. Bill McLean says:

      No problem Jim and no intent to embarrass. I’ve been involved with ships and boats and lived near the sea most of my life. Sorry for being pedantic. I just think if you have the facts, about any topic, it gives you a good basis for making your point. Have a great weekend!

    53. galamcennalath says:

      Independence will bring many possibilities and opportunities. We can begin to make Scotland into the country it could have become decades ago.

      However, as well as all the positive changes, I look forward to the removal of many negatives. Just imagine, the only place we will ever see a Union Flag will be in old books and film! It will cease to exist and no one will fly it ever again.

      Exactly what England, and any remain areas it controls, flies as their national flag is up to them. We no doubt will see one flying outside their embassy in Edinburgh in due course. 🙂

    54. Grouse Beater says:

      MacMillan the half-shilling – the rebuttal:

    55. jfngw says:


      Some refer to the Lion Rampant as the Royal Standard of Scotland. The wiki page seems to refer to it with four different names.

      What was apparent was lots seem to think it was the Saltire that was being flown instead, not surprised as reports like Rep Scot only had Saltires in the background of the story. Even the current Herald story doesn’t use the Lion Rampant but the Saltire photo.

    56. Brian Powell says:

      winifred mccartney

      If Independence was off the table then Haggerty, Sillars etc would never be heard of again, their ‘careers’ in the BBC would disappear in an instant.

    57. Scott says:

      I don’t see this reported on BBC if it was the SNP they would be all over it.

      The Courier

      Greg Jamieson, who now works for Conservative MSP Liam Kerr, narrowly escaped jail after he was convicted of touching the the breast of a female police officer.

      The married father also assaulted the woman by repeatedly touching her hair against her will.

    58. Is there any more anyone can add that can be said about Foulkes which we don’t already know.

      Incidently has anyone checked out the national online to see the offensive tweet that Labour ignoramous Neil Findlay has tweeted?

      Defender of the working class yeah right!

    59. The Isolator says:

      The fact that this odious cretin supports the same football team as me is a complete embarrassment.

      Sheeeesh .Spot on as per Chris.

    60. Glamaig says:

      galamcennalath says:
      27 January, 2018 at 11:21 am

      ‘Just imagine, the only place we will ever see a Union Flag will be in old books and film! It will cease to exist and no one will fly it ever again.’

      The Isle of Man is an interesting place to visit – not a UJ in sight anywhere, only their own flag. As I write this, I wonder if their supermarkets are being flooded with UJs, like ours are, and if so, what they think of it.

    61. Dr Jim says:

      And still the Unionist “journalists” “blame” Alex Salmond and are now questioning his conversation with the person who actually approved of the Royal Standard being the flag of choice to be flown on these occasions

      The Bloody Queen of England

      They’ve had the FMs answer, they’ve had Alex Salmonds answer

      Now get the bloody Queen of Englands answer, but even if they did and she said she was over the moon with the idea they’d still say Alex threatened her with a haggis or a mealy puddin

      Of course there are some of these same “journalists” who repeated all this guff now backtracking by stating the whole issue should be not mentioned anymore, move on even though it’s still all the SNPs fault

      I listened to one of those this A.M who when taliking about the musical group The Fall and how wonderfully irreverent they were and how they hated London but that’s a normal traditional thing in the North of England and “””cultural””” yet if anyone in Scotland says they hate London it becomes treasonous and anti English

      Yes we all live under the same rules but in Scotlands case they must be
      applied differently

    62. galamcennalath says:

      It appears that Parliament normally flies three flags. The Saltire is in the middle as our national flag. On each side it is flanked by an EU flag and a Union Flag, signifying the two unions Scotland is currently in. I can only assume a Lion Rampart is flown on royal days too/instead.

      With regard to other buildings where only one flag is to be flown, a question arises when not showing a Scottish flag. There is a choice of two unions, which one?

      The BritNats clearly assume their flag should be shown. However, with backing for EU membership considerably higher than UK membership among the Scots population, we should be showing the EU flag as our preferred union (small u )?

      Of course, this is all about to change. Half want to break the UK Union and banish the Union Flag. A third want to break the EU Union. And some what both, or neither!

    63. mr thms says:

      Great cartoon..

      Going off topic for a moment. Sorry, but it is a ‘What if’

      What if the ‘No’ result in the Scottish referendum, and the ‘Leave’ result of the EU referendum were both part of a necessary process towards achieving a desired outcome?

      In his speech on the same day the Scottish referendum result, David Cameron announced English votes for English laws. This announcement made Westminster the de facto parliament of England.

      Next came the Scotland Act 2016 with its tranche of new powers, including tax and benefits, that Scotland would have needed in place before it became an independent country

      During the Scottish referendum, the UK government made the claim the rest of the UK would become the successor state and Scotland would become a new state, should there be a Yes vote.

      But if you think about it, the UK is making a clean break with every EU Treaty. That is the clearest indication yet that there would be two successor states following the dissolution of the UK. It means the purpose of having a Brexit ‘transition period’ is to facilitate the successor countries of the UK in their negotiations of new treaties with each other, and with the EU.

      Presumably, the Scottish Office would have a role in both negotiations, which could be an explanation for the increase in staffing.

    64. Fred says:

      The last time I was at the Linlithgow “Merches!” the UJ was conspicuous by its absence! Well done Lithgae!

    65. Dan Huil says:

      Brilliant, Chris. Perfectly sums up Britnat duplicity and hypocrisy, backed up by the anti-Scottish Britnat media. Foulkes is a tractor; a despicable wee nyaff too drunk on his own ignorance.

    66. starlaw says:

      mr thms 11.41

      The EU will decide who the successor state is.

    67. colin alexander says:

      In 2014 P363 of Scotland’s Future said:

      “Around 300 public bodies currently act for Scotland at the
      UK level.

      ? around 30 per cent are proposed to continue to be based on
      a shared services approach, but with shared accountability
      to Scotland and the rest of the UK. Around 40 per cent of
      such bodies are small advisory or technical committees in
      highly specialised areas

      The UK Govt torpedoed much of this. They said: independent is independent, so nae chance with cooperation.

      Yet, the time-frame to become “independent” was 18 months AFTER a YES vote.

      This time around it’s very likely there would be legal arguments about the legal validity of an indyref vote, even if YES won.

      UK Govt is now arguably more extreme right-wing British Nationalistic than under Mr Cameron.

      The FM won’t announce an indyref until at least Autumn 2018.
      It would be held between May to September 2019 AT THE EARLIEST.
      That’s AFTER BREXIT day.

      Then there will be the legal cases on the validity of a YES vote. Even if YES won that case,

      The SNP MSPs step down in Spring 2021. Nobody knows the composition of the Scottish Parliament after that.

      The UK Govt now have a mandate till May 2022. They can just drag their heels. Wait it out.

      Even if there were another UK GE, it’s clear, where Labour loyalties lie: Rule Britannia.

      Already it seems there simply isn’t time to achieve anything substantial.

      As things stand currently, it now seems clear why the SNP is desperate to keep the UK in the Single Market: independence won’t happen during the lifetime of this Scottish Parliament.

      And nobody can predict if the electorate would give an indyref electoral mandate in the next one.

      Nobody knows if “sovereign” Westminster ( Commons and Lords)would ever vote to change the Union and allow Scotland to be independent – if we continue to foolishly accept the principle that WM is sovereign without challenge.

      The good news is: Stu, looks like you’re gonnae be in business for a long time to come, discussing how Scotland gets a raw deal as part of the UK.

    68. ronnie anderson says:

      galamacennalath ( We no doubt will see one flying outside their embassy in Edinburgh in due course. ? ) .

      A bit presumptuous is it not . They’ll be hoping that Scotland will be retained under the CommonWealth & pay into their fund & retain Queenies status like the rest of the Ex Empire countries Raped & Pillaged for the upkeep of good old England .

      Hows yer cocoa GIRUT.

    69. Tinto Chiel says:

      Chris: have a grave complaint to make. Foulksie’s hooter is much redder than that. Unfortunately my weed diddy team season ticket places me just in front of the visiting directors’ box and I get an excellent if disturbing view of the Noble Lord at least once a season.

      Those like Bill McLean who have maritime connections might like to consider this little beauty:

      I think you’ll find that will hit the Yoon Froth-Spot very nicely.

      Away to build my coracle…..

    70. Les Wilson says:

      Great cartoon as ever Chris, a master of your trade.

      We are hearing a lot of Jacob-Rees Mogg these days, this is a belter, just pay attention to the kind of people he interviews.
      Upper class twat. An odd Yes. Odder no’s.
      Welcome to “England needs you Scotland” Just prior to Indy1.

    71. Dan Huil says:

      Irish “Government departments have been asked to provide contingency plans, including possible emergency legislation, in the event that the EU and UK do not conclude a deal on Brexit.

      The plans are being sought to prepare for a worst-case scenario ahead of the start of the second-phase of negotiations between London and Brussels on the UK’s withdrawal from the EU in March 2019.”

      A no-deal brexit will change the timetable immeasurably.

    72. Gary45% says:

      Nice one Chris “classic”
      Foulkes “the ermine clad jaikie”, who sups at the tax payers subsidised Westminster bar with the rest of the Foulkers, while claiming 300 smackeroos per day + expenses for the privilege of being a wasting trougher, who took the gullible sheep for granted for decades, got found out for being incompetent and this was his reward.
      HoL can go and “Do One”

    73. colin alexander says:

      There’s no way the EU would willingly politically agree a break up of any member state creates two member states, both of which are automatically EU members based on their previous membership as one state.

      It would be a green light to Catalonia etc, Scotland etc, so Spain, UK (for as long as it’s a member) et al would vote it down.

    74. Scott says:

      One of your best yet Chris.

      I wonder what Douglas Ross MP for Moray would back the SG or his Tory council on this.

    75. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      An EU state breaks up by mutual agreement into two states, one of which is hell-bent on leaving the EU, and the other which clearly wishes to remain. Now which is the successor state, as far as the EU is concerned?

      Tricky one that. (But only for the agenda-hustlers and diversion merchants.)

    76. ronnie anderson says:

      Tinto Cheil ( Away to build my coracle….)

      Haw U ur U tryin tae cut intae ma business building coricle’s ( smilies )

    77. Macart says:

      Seems to me that the usual suspects in UK politics and the media are hell bent on stirring up the natives. For their own benefit of course.

      Fleggate? Seriously? Measured against the Brexit galactofeck, austerity legislation and collapse of UK politics which they have visited upon the populations of these islands, it’s a piece of coloured cloth which gets their knickers knotted?

      I think it was aptly summed up in one of our host’s graphics in yesterday’s posting… BOLLOCKS! I think that was the word. Yes. BOLLOCKS!

      They want and need the natives at each other’s throats and no, I don’t reckon they give a shit about the incalculable harm this causes to our society. They are, after all, who and what they are.

      So rather than play their childish and, let’s face it, sociopathic game. What say we respond in the usual manner? What say we keep it calm. Keep it sarcastic and above all treat the whole idiocy with the contempt it deserves. Staying calm about now strikes me as THE thing which will screw up their day most.

      Don’t buy into the narrative they set. Don’t buy their media at all (and it is THEIR media). Walk away and discuss grown up stuff while they have a rant in their sandpit.

      We’ve got better things to do and a whole lot of their mess to clean up elsewhere. You know, actually helping people in need. That kind of thing.

    78. ronnie anderson says:

      Robert J.Sutherland Same argument applies to the UK or not UK , the baws in their court but when Scotland gains Independence there is NO UK . Its all change & who in Scotland would care what the Westminster Goc decide to call themselves .

    79. Legerwood says:

      Sunshine says:
      27 January, 2018 at 11:11 am
      I seem to remember, about ten years ago, that the SNP were going to change the law that forced councils to put notices in newspapers about road changes etc. There was such a furore about it from the newspaper owners, because of the advertising revenue loss, that it was dropped. Maybe in this time of austerity and online use, this should be looked at again. Maybe someone else can remember the exact details, but why does the government keep helping to enable the funding of these newspapers?

      The proposal to place public notices online rather than in newspapers was made by the Scottish Government during its first term in office when it was a minority government.

      The proposal would have saved the SG and local councils several million pounds each year.Cue outrage from the newspapers over the considerable loss of income to them although they did not couch their argument in those terms of course.

      The unionist parties supported the newspapers’ case- attack on the press, freedom of speech, attempt to hide info etc – and, since it was a minority government, essentially blocked the legislation that would have been required to make the change.

      Cue gratitude on the part of the newspapers towards the unionist parties. Gratitude which they display every day in so many ways.

      No idea why the SG did not revisit the idea when it became a majority government. Probably dropped off the radar or thought not to be worth the hassle.

    80. Bob Mack says:

      Scotland is a nation state. It is not a region. We just happen to be in a Union with another nation state. Legally important.

    81. colin alexander says:

      Robert J. Sutherland

      As things currently are: Brexit day is March 29, 2019.

      After that day there will be no part of the current UK in the EU.

      There will be no EU successor.

      If anyone thinks an announcement in Autumn 2018 of the intention to hold an indyref, holding an indyref and the legal end of the Union can take place in less than 6 months is kidding themselves.

      Let’s hear your explanation of how it could be achieved? C’moan Robert geeze a laugh.

    82. gus1940@ 11.02a.m.
      Of course it’s Saigon, not Hanoi. I need an editor. My excuse, Saturday morning, being rushed out the know the drill.
      I thought of St Andrews House as a helicopter pad because, if memory serves it has a flat roof.
      Sometimes my flights of fancy fly too close to the sun, the wax melts, my wings fall off and I plummet ignominiously to the earth.
      They don’t call me Icarus Jack for nothing.
      If only I could discipline myself to check my facts, just like our MSM do.
      Thanks for putting me right, Gus.

    83. Ottomanboi says:

      @Grouse Beater
      The piece is a very ill disguised anti-Catholic, below-the-line Guardianesque, rant not so different in tone from MacMillan’s crazy outpourings.
      As a Catholic and a nationalist I’d lock you both in the same room and throw away the key.
      Prejudice is the vilest of things. Scotland can well do without it.

    84. ALANM says:

      The media in Scotland has destroyed its own credibility and signed its own death warrant as a result of its increasingly desperate attempts to influence voter opinion.

      Not having time to waste being brainwashed by UK state propaganda masquerading as news, I no longer buy a newspaper or watch the tv news. I’m sure I’m not alone.

      When the liquidators are eventually called in and the printing presses sold off, it will all be the fault of the SNP. If they weren’t so popular and didn’t represent such a threat to the UK establishment, then the newspapers and the BBC would’ve been free to carry on with their day job – reporting the news.

    85. Socrates MacSporran says:

      This if Off-Topic but, worth posting I think.

      I have just completed a pop-up survey on The Scotsman’s website.

      Why am I not surprised that “Scotland” is not an option in the section: “in which country do you live?” If you live in Scotland, your only Scotsman option is “United Kingdom”.

      Nae wonder the paper is gaun doon the stand, quickly.

    86. Bob Mack says:

      Ha ha ha. You know ,the unusual thing about getting divorced at 3.00pm on a Friday, is that you can be married again by 3.30 pm on the same Friday. No doubt somebody might object,but there you go.

    87. Bob Mack says:

      @ Ottomanboi,

      Tend to agree. Rather sweeping generalisations going on in that piece by Grouse beater. Not up to his usual standard at all.
      To categorise the many for the actions of a few is very short sighted indeed.

    88. colin alexander says:

      Bob Mack

      The floor is yours Bob, let’s hear your explanation of how from an announcement of intention in Autumn 2018, the indyref can be held, legal challenges seen off, the dissolution of the Union be achieved ( including WM approval ( Commons and Lords) to avoid accusations of UDI from Yesindyref2), all within 6 months, so Scotland is free to “marry” or “just look for friends with benefits”

      all before Brexit day in March 2019.

    89. Bob Mack says:

      Correct me if I am wrong anybody,but is there not a lot of talk about a transition period after Brexit ranging from two to three years.

      That seems ample time to sort out who keeps the cat and who takes the furniture. Anybody ?

    90. Chris Kilby says:

      He started early.


    91. I’m getting blocked on WGD. Problem with my google a/c Testing testing.

    92. Oh please tell me that GCHQ are after me!

    93. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Truly Scottish TV has added a ‘History’ channel today, looks good.—history.html

    94. Gary45% says:

      Catalonia is NOT A COUNTRY.( or have your imperial masters not explained that one to you?)

    95. colin alexander says:

      Bob Mack

      Transition is about remaining compliant with EU regulations, WITHOUT being a member. It’s compliance AFTER EU membership has ended.

    96. Dan Huil says:

      The brexit bourach continues to throw up new rules amidst broken rules amidst new proposed rules over and over again like a deranged political big bang.

      It’s right the Scottish government holds its fire till the time is prescient to use the confused mess to our own advantage. We are, however, rightly seeing a more determined attitude towards Britnat media lies by ScotGov and we’ll soon have the vote on the constitutional/devolutional issue concerning brexit.

      The right time to hold Indyref2, regardless of Westminster’s broken order, will be well before the next Holyrood election.

      Let’s make the most of Westminster’s mess.

    97. Bill McLean says:

      Tinto-chiel at 1209am. Nice wee flag but for me i’d put the Saltire in the middle with a white background. Why copy the style our masters use on the “Red duster” (Merchant navy flag)?

    98. Dan Huil says:

      Jack collatin 1:21pm

      I’m on firefox and I’ve had problems with their “safe search” thingy – not being able to reach sites after I’ve used the search engine. Maybe something similar to you? I just deleted firefox’s “safe search” and things got back to normal.

    99. Bob Mack says:

      @ Colin Alexander.

      So knowledgeable NOT.

      I think you will find Spain had a five year Transition arrangement PRIOR to obtaining full membership of the EU. Do you research anything or do you just bump your gums for fun ?

    100. Proud Cybernat says:

      Sums it up perfectly, Chris.

      I hear Tom Cruise has been sent out today to arrest Nicola Sturgeon because on Friday, 30th November 2018 (Saint Andrew’s Day) she will declare Scotland, once more, an independent nation (after a YES victory in the Referendum of Thurs, 29th November).

      Lord Foulkesake will pass sentence on Monday.

    101. artyhetty says:

      Love the flags there Chris.

      George, George! now it’s time for your medicine, no, not that! (whisky bottle) Yes we know you were a ‘hero for teamGB’, ( giggles) now, here we go, aeroplanes here you go…Phew.

      Britnats be terrified of losing their gravy train, and what with Nicola Sturgeon doing great work for Scotland while all around, ie, south of the border and their minions at Holyrood, are dodging and ducking and diving to keep the plebs from asking serious questions about what the heck is going on at WM and how the heck can they be running a country when they are messing up big style their Brexit vanity project.

      All while homeless people are actually freezing to death in cities like Bournemouth, because the nice PC plod took away their only means of keeping warm. England, where someone has to be taken to hospital in a police car having a heart attack, no ambulances available. All in yoon UKOK. Splendid, it’s all going to UKOK and their dodgy pals around the globe plan, then.

      Jack collatin@1.21

      That does happen, try signing in on a different device if you have one. I had probs with that for a while, depends which device but it seemed I had been logged out.

    102. Glamaig says:

      Bill McLean at 1:40 pm

      Seems it was used by the Scottish Navy pre-1707

      Not sure about pre 1603 though.

    103. mr thms says:

      starlaw @ 11:54 am

      I think it is important to remember when UK leaves the EU in March 2019 it is making a clean break from all of its EU treaties, and there would be no EU treaties with the EU during the ‘transition period’.

      The UK government’s claim during the Scottish referendum of a ‘rest of the UK’ continuing state remaining in the EU, can never be proven now.

      This scenario fits the bill.

      “An example of a universal state succession is the dissolution of Czechoslovakia. Neither part claimed any continuity: both the Czech Republic and Slovakia were new successor states.”

      If the UK does go the same way as Czechoslovakia, it would be during the ‘transition period’ following Brexit.

      England, Scotland and Wales already meet the requirements to be members of the EU and all of them would therefore be fast-tracked as ‘new’ member states.

      In fact, this solution might help Spain revisit its constitutional arrangements.

      Seems to me Scotland would be welcomed because everything I’ve read about Scotland as a member of the EU, is that it would be a ‘contributer’ state.

    104. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Saw Foulkes once, in Edinburgh, near the castle. It was a damp dreich evening and we were looking for somewhere to get dinner. He was alone, collar raised against the wind, but wore no hat. He was walking briskly, between candy-striped scaffolding poles, close to the building. As he neared us he looked right at me, wee eyes wary. He knew I recognised him. He lowered his face between hunched shoulders and continued scurrying through the shadow of the dark tenement.

      The man looks and behaves guilty.

    105. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      mr thms @ 14:12,

      When interviewed by John MacKay about state succession, Toom Tabard Mundell took great pains, unasked, to specifically dismiss the Czechoslovakia precedent, because for him it was clearly the most salient and awkward point of all.

      Most people though missed it because they got hung up on the historical “Scotland extinguished” trope, when in fact Fluffy had merely mumbled a vague acquiescence to what MacKay had put to him.

      Luckily for the EU bureaucrats, the CZ “velvet divorce” happened before either part joined the EU. Each also had to adjust to very different social and economic circumstances from their recent past. That wouldn’t apply to a splitting UK.

      In the wake of Scottish independence (which is looking all the more likely now, hence the increasingly hysterical BritNat outbursts of late), whether a shocked England+ would wish to re-negotiate a stay is doubtful, at least as things stand, although of course it’s their business alone. I would wish them well with it whatever. They are the ones who have to live with the consequences of their own free choice.

      Just as we should be able to do with ours. What’s not to like?

    106. Joe Middleton says:

      What I find funny is that none of the yoons noticed the new flag policy even though it’s been going on since 2010! Very clever move from Alex Salmond. By the way his chat show is great, always interesting and about serious grown up politics, a stark contrast to the drivel on newsnight or Question Time.

    107. colin alexander says:

      Bob Mack

      Currently, the UK will exit membership of the EU, before Scotland can leave – or dissolve – the UK Union.

      I’m not talking compliance with EU regulations during transition, I’m talking actual membership of the EU.

      If you’re oot you’re oot, even if complying with EU regulations.

    108. colin alexander says:

      mr thms

      “The crucial difference with Scottish independence is that the extinction of Czechoslovakia was effected by the consent of both new states”, said the UK Govt in 2013.

      The UK Govt also claimed, in contrast the UK would be a successor state. Indy-Scotland a new state. (That was the UK Govt’s position then. It’s not my view.)

      Whether the EU would vote to fast-track indy-Scotland’s EU membership – or whether Scotland would want EU membership after indy is the unknown future. I can’t predict that.

    109. Fred says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood, I was just getting into that wee story, a nice bit of writing, M.R.James, what!

      Guilt? probably pished himself again!

    110. Bob Mack says:

      @Colin Alexander,

      Spain provisionally joined the EU in 1981, due to sorting out commercial and industrial and political differences it did not have full membership till 1986. It still had the benefits of provisional membership therefore your point in senseless.

      Why are you so determined to find barriers that have been clearly overcome before. ? Why ?

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      @mr thms
      EU total budget around £260 billion 2017. UK contribution after £4 billion rebate = £13 billion = 5%. So UK leaving means the EU-27 have to pay 5% more for the next 2021-27 budget period. I’m getting there!

      The UK contributes nett around £8.6 billion, as it receives around £4.5 billion from the EU. Scotland actually gets more of this pro rata. Scotland wouldn’t get the rebate, and we’re roughly around the UK in terms of economy, so our total gross contribution would be £17 billion / 12 = £1.5 billion.

      But we get around £400 million from the EU as part of the UK, and we SHOULD be receiving more for CAP1 and CAP2 convergence uplift which Carmichael gave instead to the rest of the UK, so an extra perhaps £300 million. So our nett contribution at today’s prices would be around £800 million, maybe less. But Scotland would be able to apply for more grants the UK is too late for, or just doesn’t bother with, so it’d end up being around £700 million, maybe even £600 million a year (I worked out before this £500 million so I’m erring on the side of safety). It’d be easier to apply for major infrastructure funding.

      As part of the UK, Scotland is “charged” for £13.1 billion / 12 = £1.1 billion and receives £400 million, so currently we get charged “nett” for around £0.7 billion.

      So basically speaking, being part of the EU in our own right is EXACTLY the same price as currently, but of course qw actually have influence, rather than virtually none as part of the UK.

      Oh – that 5% when the rUK laves. Well, it’s slightly less because of our contribution, but anyway it means an extra £75 million a year from Scotland – so much for the jeering unionists and brexiteers taunts.

      E&OE – I did this off the top of my head.

    112. Bob Mack says:


      Just to remind you that the EU played a pivotal role in the separation of the Czechs and Slovaks, just as they are doing with Ireland. It is in their interests you see.

    113. yesindyref2 says:

      Newton Stewart and those parts of D&G and the Borders that voted NO and then voted Tory, by the way, are a classic example of turkeys voting for Christmas.

      Had Scotland been Independent and a member of the EU in our own right, very substantial EU grants and funding would have been available from the EU because of the flooding there.

      Silly buggers.

    114. yesindyref2 says:

      @Bob Mack
      I did explore the Velvet Divorce, and there were pros and cons as to whether it would be a model for Scotland. All the UK papers of course were very one-sided, and it was the first paper of all that set the background for the rest. It was vital for the rUK that it be considered the cUK so it could keep all memberships, including the UN Security Council.

      The actual remit of the 2 profs was to do this, they say so in the preamble of the Annex A. From taht point of view they are like Advocates / QCs, arguing the rUK’s case. Clearly therefore there are Advocates for the other side, and indeed debate from people in the UK considered this.

      I’m up to my eyes at the moment, but places to look for fair discussions are LSE, Manchester University, University of Sussex I think – and even Oxford Uni.

      Here’s a quick one I found, mostly anti the idea of continuing EU membership back in 2014, but note this as therefore it’s given more import in a largely negative paper:

      The Scottish Government’s White Paper accepts that a treaty amendment is needed for Scotland to remain within the European Union. She cannot, however, make a formal application to join the European Union until she has become independent. This will mean a period during which she is independent but outside the European Union. She would therefore have to negotiate to secure access to the European Union’s internal market during the interim period. She might have to pay an economic price for this benefit.

      There’s also an interesting bit in the next pragaraph – remember, this is a largely negative view for Scotland, so positives in it are always of more significance.

      (about Spain and France) “An attempt at a veto would be unlikely to succeed, since an independent Scotland would easily meet the criteria –

      In general it is FUD quoting from the UK papers, particularly the first one which some legal and constitutional people thought was foolhardy in the extreme as it gave away the UK’s negotiatong position and allowed counters to be made ready. But in the light of Brexit, I’m not convinced this line of FUD attack will have much importance in Indy Ref 2. Best to be ready for it though!

    115. colin alexander says:

      Bob Mack

      The history of the European Union – 1981. No mention of Spain.

      12 June 1985 – Signature of the Accession Treaties of Spain and Portugal.

      1986- Spain joins the EC ( as it was then).

      Membership of the EU

      How does it work?

      The process has 3 stages (all subject to approval by all existing EU countries):

      a country is offered the prospect of membership

      the country becomes an official candidate for membership

      the candidate moves on to formal membership negotiations, a process that usually involves reforms to adopt established EU law.

      When the negotiations and accompanying reforms have been completed to the satisfaction of both sides, the country can join the EU – again, if all existing EU countries agree.

    116. Bob Mack says:


      Spain actually first applied around 1971, but as you can imagine the French were rather reluctant to allow a then fascist State to join. Though Franco died in I think 1975, the French wanted Spain to settle into a Democracy before consenting to full approval. Spain applied again in 1981 and we’re granted partial membership on agricultural trade and other aspects which gave the EU time to assess their application politically and commercially for full membership. This wS granted in 1986.

      You will find this on specialist papers written by good authors, not on Wikipedia.

    117. Bob Mack says:

      @Yes indy ref,

      Yes I agree, but I know that the EU does not like friction on their borders. When the Czechs split it was evident that there was a growing right wing movement, primarily aimed at Slovakia. It was not by any means a velvet separation.

      The Slovaks were much more laid back and we’re very multicultural and open. They were more prosperous in any event. This is why the EU got involved. Basically to nip any trouble in the bud.

    118. Bob Mack says:

      @Yes indy ref2,

      Just a point. EU law and regulations are already incorporated into Scots law. Fairly easy transition.

    119. Robert Peffers says:

      Must be the only time in the history of the Kingdom of England’s legal system that an objection against the due process of the law came from his Lordship on the bench himself.

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bob Mack says: 27 January, 2018 at 8:26 am:

      ” … Of course many are unable to do that for a variety of reasons.”

      Indeed so, Bob Mack, but by far the main reason is they just too bloody thick.

    121. mr thms says:

      #Robert J. Sutherland @ 2:49 pm

      Thank you for your reply.

      I like that David Mundell blurted an unprompted dismissal of the Velvet Divorce for not being comparable.

      Smokescreen and mirrors perhaps?

      The dissolution of Czechoslovakia took place before the Czech Republic and Slovakia joined the EU. I can’t believe it is a coincidence.

      Think of the consequences. Had Czechoslovakia already been a member of the EU, the country would have had to leave the EU before a split.

      This is because the constitution of the EU does not allow for the internal enlargement of the EU.

      Suppose it had happened, Czechoslovakia and the EU could have re-written the EU rule book for others to follow.

      For example, as part of negotiations, the EU could have amended the original Treaty of Rome, (It is now called the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. So watch out for it being amended as part of the UK and EU negotiations).

      I’ve read both countries agreed to the treaties of the old by Czechoslovakia remain in force. Something that Scotland and England could agree for the former UK.

      The Treaty of Utrecht, which mentions Catalonia and Gibraltar, might be amended before any dissolution takes place.

    122. colin alexander says:

      EU membership will be a matter for the sovereign people of Scotland to decide before any application.

      Oh wait, the sovereign people of Scotland already voted to Remain part of the EU.

      WM however, just ignores this and the Scottish Govt branch office has now gone along with their WM bosses and acquiesced on this matter.

      So, both the UK and Scottish branch office are now ignoring the will of the sovereign people.

      As is the EU.

      The SNP – credit to them here – have repeatedly asserted the people are sovereign. Thus, they should continue to defend the democratically decided will of the sovereign people.

      Remain in the EU.

    123. yesindyref2 says:

      FUD – Gibberish.

    124. Bob Mack says:

      Colin, you keep changing your mind and the goalposts. What the devil do you want.? You semi to have nothing but barriers and no solutions.

    125. colin alexander says:

      Bob Mack

      The SNP and the Scottish Govt both said the people of Scotland are sovereign and they have the Claim of Right 1689 to prove it.

      I agree. Do you?

      I believe the legal position of the Claim of Right 1689 relating to Scotland’s people’s sovereignty should be argued in court to try and prevent Scotland’s exit from the EU.

      It’s also highly pertinent to Scotland’s process in becoming independent. Are unelected Lords and non-Scotland MPs – that the people of Scotland did not elect – sovereign over the people of Scotland?

      What’s the legal answer?

      We should be getting the answers to these questions before asking new ones.

    126. Ghillie says:

      Will Mr Foulkes be a gentleman and apologise ?

    127. Bob Mack says:

      @ Colin Alexander.

      The Gina Miller supreme Court ruling decreed that the Scottish case hung on the Sewell Convention, in that the UK parliament ultimately created it and could therefore overides it . It was not created in Scotland by the Scottish government.

      Where I believe the true case for Scotland lies and is is in the Treaty of Union itself. It was established that Scots law related to the private individual would remain rather than come under the jurisdiction of English law after the Treaty In short the rights of private citizens is and always has been a Scottish matter. Or at least should have been so,

      Now that Scots law has incorporated EU citizens rights, I believe that the UK parliament is directly infringing on Scots law illegally. This has never been tested as yeT.

      Law and education were two matters in which the Treaty of Union decreed as being separate. Citing the Sewell convention was an error .

    128. Old Pete says:

      Foulkes and gentleman in the same sentence, no chance they just have never ever gone together. Foulkes is an arse and always has been, when I lived in Cumnock he was useless and nothing has changed.
      In East Ayrshire Labour have always favoured the O/O with some degree of electoral success. The first and winning councillor elected for Cumnock in the last council elections has the O/O as one of his named interests, sad so very sad.

    129. mr thms says:

      yesindyref2 @ 5:00 pm

      Thanks for your reply.

      Amazing how you worked all that out.

      I recall Westminster holding back on a substantial some of money from the EU that was intended for Scottish farmers.

      Another overlooked issue is how much Scotland would have received as an independent country. It could be similar to the EU countries of a similar size. Those countries get actual payments tharare several times higher than that the current payment Scotland receives.

      Also, with the system as it stands, Scotland will soon be tthe bottom ranked country in EU for farm payments.

      Amazed Scottish farmers do not complain more about the anomoly.

    130. yesindyref2 says:

      Details on that CAP robbery by the UK Gov with Carmichael saying it was great to share Scotland’s money around the rest of the UK after all we’re better together and the broad shoulders of the UK need everything Scotland can give the rest of it or the rUK develops a stoop, or something like that.

      First November 12th 2013:

      and later 27 November 2014:

      We’re better together being robbed stupid shut up and eat your cereal but we’re not giving you any of your money to grow it vote tory to get more of the same for ever and a day thanks very much you elected 13 useless tory mps hahahaha fooled you yet again you stupid jocks now go and pay attention to all that FUD being directed at you because you can’t go it alone in the world you’re stupid scots and need us to keep dicking turpining you hahaha

    131. Cactus says:

      SO true Chris. They would have our First Minister up on the dock at any given opportunity, just for fabricating their latest fake news story. Let’s see the other Scottish party leaders up on the dock, answering a few party related questions.

      “…Nicola Sturgeon because on Friday, 30th November 2018 (Saint Andrew’s Day) she will declare Scotland, once more, an independent nation (after a YES victory in the Referendum of Thurs, 29th November).”

      Likey likey, nice timin’ Proud Cybernat 🙂

      We should know well by then.

      Lookin’ good Nicola xx.

    132. Cactus says:

      Take out the text and turn them tables.

      Someday soon, we will have the upper hand to call.

      Nicola knows… update to follow.

      Lookin’ good Nicola xx.

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