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Wings Over Scotland

The law is what we say it is

Posted on March 19, 2013 by

This article* puts our feelings about the actions of the three London parties in the House Of Commons today better (or at the very least, more concisely and with considerably more restraint) than we could ourselves.

The SNP, Plaid Cymru, the sole Green and about 40 of 258 Labour MPs opposed the motion, which was only able to be rushed through because of Labour’s co-operation with the government. Everyone else either voted for it or abstained. The rule of law means nothing any more, and neither does democracy. Better together, right?

*The link now points to a saved version. The original has been mysteriously replaced.

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60 to “The law is what we say it is”

  1. dundee bloke says:

    I’m clutching at straws here I know, but were any of the 40 lab MP’s Slab ?

  2. Baheid says:

    These parasites are out of control.

  3. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I’m clutching at straws here I know, but were any of the 40 lab MPs Slab?”

    Haven’t had the full breakdown yet. Ones said to have rebelled include Grahame Morris (Co. Durham, not to be confused with the useless Graeme Morrice from Livingston), Fiona MacTaggart (Slough, despite the name), Ian Mearns (Gateshead) and John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington).

  4. Yesitis says:

    Another benefit of the union?

  5. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran, recently seen in our Bedroom Tax coverage) now saying she voted against.

  6. cath says:

    List for and against here
    Looks like the Chairchoob voted against at least. Don’t see Tom Harris, Alistair Darling, Brown et al.

  7. AnneDon says:

    Do we assume the Willie Bain principle doesn’t hold where the Labour Front Bench are concerned?
    Or just where the SNP are not concerned?

  8. cath says:

    Beat me to it Rev!

  9. Marcia says:

    I’ve posted a full list of the Noes from Hansard but it says Your comment is awaiting moderation.

  10. CameronB says:

    So its clear the gloves are now off, lets see what happens when the sleeves get rolled up.

  11. JLT says:

    Shock, horror, surprise from the Westminster Cartels. 
    First of all, shame on the people who have rammed this new law through. Seriously …what the f*** has happened to this country since 1979 ?
    Secondly, the Labour politicians who have backed this new amendment should be utterly ashamed of themselves. How far to the right does Ed want to go, and secondly, when are the Unions going to turn around and tell the Labour Party that they no longer back them, nor will they fund them.
    I also saw on Reporting Scotland that the Scottish Parliament voted something like 70 to 10 in condemning the decision on going to war with Iraq 10 years ago. The Labour party (shock, horror, surprise again) abstained from voting. Yet another matter in which Labour will neither agree, nor disagree on. This can also be added to the growing list on which Labour hold no certain views on; a list that already holds the Bedroom Tax and Trident.
    On another note – while watching the BBC News at 6, they returned to their weekly report on ‘Iraq today’ (10 year anniversary of the war). As the Reporter talked about how Iraq was slowly transforming into a much better society, they happened to mention that a good reason for it was due to the $100 Billion entering the Iraqi economy from the oil that it produces. As the Reporter said matter of factly to the camera…’With 100 Billion dollars and a population of 30 million, well you only have to do the math to understand why the country is improving’.
    So…a $100 Billion split between 30 million people is a bloody good thing, but £60 Billion split between 5 million is a drain on Scotland. WTF !!!! Do these B******* not realise that we are listening ????
    Hopefully, Alex will ram that little stat about Iraq down the ‘Bitter Together’ mob on Thursday when he announces the Referendum date.
    Absolutely shocking. Not a good day for the Unionists as far as I am concerned.

  12. muttley79 says:

    Mark Lazarowicz, Ian Davidson, Jim Sheridan and Michael Connarty from Scottish Labour voted against (I can’t see any more).  A good few Northern Ireland and Scottish MPs voted against it.  As did what the right-wing media refer to disparagingly as the ‘usual suspects’ (Corbyn. Skinner, Meacher, McDonnell, Lucas etc).

  13. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Seven in total, in fact – after mentioning Clark I forgot to count her, missed Jim Sheridan and had never heard of Sandra Osborne.

  14. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I’ve posted a full list of the Noes from Hansard but it says Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

    Sorry, Marcia – Akismet objected to all the links (I’m exempt :D) and I’d posted myself before I saw yours in the mod queue. Due props to you.

  15. Marcia says:

    Muttley 79
    Also Jim McGovern Dundee West and Ian Davidson with Caty Clark who was a teller for the Noes

  16. muttley79 says:

    Yes, I missed 3 Scottish Labour MPs who voted against.  What were the others doing?  Why is Darling not voting in the Commons against this shit?  I take it Brown has swanned off somewhere again?  

  17. Frazer Allan Whyte says:

    No surprise at what the labor-o-tory rats have “legally” worked up. I read the following in the Guardian online  Sunday: “The inquest into the death of a prisoner jailed for stealing a gingerbread man during the riots in 2011 opens in London on Monday. The man had a history of mental illness and physical problems, which his foster family say were not addressed by the prison.” Apparently the heinous crime took place after the bakery had been raided and he got the leftovers as it were. It seems that for being a person with a history of mental problems and self-harm who lifts a gingerbread man no punishment can be too severe. Imagine what the Libor embezzlers and other banking cheats must have coming to them, and those magpie MPs and ….

  18. The Man in the Jar says:

    Utterly utterly disgusting.
    I am so glad that I am Scottish because I would be extremely embarrassed to be British

  19. Marcia says:

    Sad day for the poor, they now have a good option for something better in 2014.
    A good well produced video on Scottish Independence: Top 10 Unionist Myths – DEBUNKED

  20. CameronB says:

    I’m so glad I’m Scottish, because I have the chance to vote this kind of shit into dark pages of history. Assuming our new constitution will outlaw such acts.

  21. Davy says:

    “Shame, bloody shame and tories”, and all those disgraceful MPs from other parties who voted either for this motion or abstained. How can you sleep at night after you have stuffed the rights of the people of this country who had legally won their case against the government. You Bastards.
    The quicker we are away from that craphouse called Westminster the better.
    Vote YES, for all our sakes.
    OT, I have finally gotten someone from Labour hame to start answering back on their forum, dont know who just ‘admin’, any ideas ???

  22. muttley79 says:

    OT, I have finally gotten someone from Labour hame to start answering back on their forum, dont know who just ‘admin’, any ideas ???
    The Janny?  😀

  23. Marcia says:

    It used to be Tom Harris.

  24. The Man in the Jar says:

    I genuinely feel very sorry for people living in England. Imagine going into the poling booth, looking at you ballot paper and looking at your viable choices. (With apologies to the Greens.)
    Lib Dem.
    Only one answer. NONE OF THE ABOVE

  25. Inbhir Anainn says:

    Dosesn’t the House of Commons ever list abstention votes?

  26. CameronB says:

    @ The Man in the Jar
    Not much of a choice really. (Again, apologies to the Greens)

  27. JLT says:

    The Man in the Jar / Cameron,
    I agree with you both. I believe that is why Scotland must become independent. I’m hoping that the rest of the UK will in time, see what Scotland has got (free education, free prescription, sensible spending on defence, no daft wars) and go, ‘That is the way things should be. That is the democracy that we want. We are seriously pissed that we were fed that neo-con liberarilism garbage while the Scots got it right!’
    That is when I hope that England moves back towards the center, and away from the right / far-right.
    I also believe that if Scotland does achieve Independence then a lot of English will emigrate north of the border; to live in a country that they wished they could live in …if they lived in England. Expect our population to swell post-indy!!!

  28. The Man in the Jar says:

    Up until quite recently I used to attend functions in Kendal. The format was normally a dinner. The usual chat after dinned would turn to Scotland and independence. There were, as you would expect some quite pro union views. On the other hand I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of folk (mostly farmers) Who thought it would be an excellent idea if Cumbria came with Scotland and they were only half joking.

  29. Tamson says:

    Why is anyone surprised? We surely all know by now that Labour politicians have long cherished their Marxist principles – Groucho, that is…

  30. Jeannie says:

    O/T Just noticed one of the twitter names listed on the side panel is @badgers arse.  Do you think his first name is Rufus?

  31. CameronB says:

    @ Tamson
    If you don’t like their principles, they have other ones they’d be happy to stand by to get your vote? I just watched a load of their films, but can’t remember which one that was in.

    @ Jeannie
    That deserves a boom boom.

  32. The Man in the Jar says:

    OT a wee bit.
    Labour in Holyrood now backing Celtic and Rangers fans against the anti sectarian laws. First time that I have ever seen my MSP (McMahon) on TV. You wouldn’t expect any more would you?
    Oh Newsnicht is covering this as well. Would you credit it!

  33. Jiggsbro says:

    The government have officially jumped the shark. If we don’t vote Yes in 2014, I’ll be at the border with a pickaxe and shovel, enacting a unilateral declaration of separation.

  34. Yesitis says:

    @The Man in the Jar
    “Oh Newsnicht is covering this as well. Would you credit it!”
    Probably Labour/BBC co-ordinated in the first place. Very suspect anyway.

  35. Jimbo says:

    We must assume that those such as Margaret Curran, Alistair Darling, Gordon Brown et al., by refusing to vote against it, are for it.

  36. The Man in the Jar says:

    I would be very careful. Crush injuries can be very dangerous.

  37. Caroline Corfield says:

    @The Man in the Jar
    when did you see my ballot paper! No kidding, if it wasn’t for the Greens that is exactly the choice I’d have here in the Labour heartlands of SE Northumberland, home of Ronnie Campbell well known rebel and abstainer.

  38. The Man in the Jar says:

    Oh now it is Alex Salmonds fault that the Celtic fans cant march around the streets of Glasgow like a hoard of barbarians chanting sectarian songs.
    This according to “academic” (didn’t get his name) on Newsnicht!

  39. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Caroline Corfield
    With luck an independent Scotland will lead the way in reversing this slide into utter shit that Westminster insists on enforcing on us.
    If not immigrate to Scotland. Don’t hang about though, might be a bit of a rush.

  40. Linda's back says:

    @ The Man in the Jar
    The Dundee “academic” is a long standing critic of the SNPs attempt to tackle football sectarianism who seems to be a right wing anti regulations type and unlike me  doesn’t come from the West of Scotland.
    The Green Brigade needed permission from Glasgow City Council which they didn’t apply for.

  41. LisaR says:

    Once again my MP abstains from voting against something that harms people. Was he running around the world doing his free UN work to get all children into education………one heart for others and none for the people of Kirkcaldy. Thank god we have managed to get Labour for Indy through to Kirkcaldy to give them hope that if they vote Indy they can see the return of the old and social Labour that cared a damn for Scotland. Kirkcaldy is deep Labour heartlands as many places in Fife,we have to break the hold Gordon has over his town. Owing to the comments on the letters page each week in local papers there is more and more discontentment about Gordon who one minute you see him and next he is gone. I personally do not think his heart lies with his position as MP anymore,he has found his niche in life but at the cost of not standing up for those that have voted him loyally for decades..if you are in Fife come along to the Yes Kirkcaldy Launch to lend support. Denis Canavan and Allan Grogan speaking.

  42. Richie says:

    A good well produced video on Scottish Independence: Top 10 Unionist Myths – DEBUNKED 

    You can’t watch that video any more. Better together have had it banned from Youtube due to copyright infringement.
    You can watch it here for now at least

  43. Tamson says:

    @The Man in The Jar:
    this stuff about the anti-sectarian laws has all the hallmarks of a desperate distraction tactic.

  44. Stevie Cosmic says:
    New URL for the Unionist Myths debunked video.
    Better Together had the one on Youtube removed for ‘Copyright Infringement’…
    EDIT> Richie beat me to it 😉

  45. dundee bloke says:

    REV, if I’m seeing this properly IAN (FORKING) Davidson, the head of the anti Scotland committee actually voted AGAINST a TORY and with the SNP ———-this does not compute——this cannot compute—–of anyone in the slab ——I would have picked him (and UNCLE Tom Clarke) to be the last or least likely to have a spine. He’s an old slab thug, a bully. In Nazi Germany, towards the end of the war, there were several prominent Nazi’s, Goerbles, Goring to mis spell two, who tried to save their own skin. Is Davidson backing out of his part in new slab   

  46. CameronB says:

    @ Tamson
    I meant it was funny when Goucho delivered a similar line, but I can’t remember in which film. I didn’t think I was too clear what I meant the first time.
    Anyway, carry on.

  47. Tris says:

    Do you know, if I were trying to sell a union, this is most certainly NOT how I would go about it.

  48. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Linda’s back
    I’m from west central and know all about tribalism.
    The march/demo by the green brigade on Saturday was obviously provocative.
    Difficult to say regarding orchestration / distraction. I would have thought that the video footage would have been better. Polis guy was quite good. He has been on TV a couple of times lately. Strait talker. Makes a change.

  49. annie says:

    Don’t be fooled by Davidson every now and again he realises who actually sends him to Westminster and votes accordingly – dosn’t happen that often.

  50. dundee bloke says:

    REV, this may be topic for another time. BUT regarding my last post at 11;40pm. what should happen post Independence, should we have a truth and reconciliation what ever, or just carry on and ignore that which has happened on the road to Independence? in the spirit of least said, best forgotten.
    In light of today’s and other recent political events, (re the collapse of socialism in the labour party) we can be reasonably sure of the, (maybe) not outright support of the trades unions, (though early signs are that none have come out against Independence though none are supporting the union, while a few of the smaller ones actively support independence) then at least of their not working against the socialist, inclusive, principles of an Independent Scotland;and if for no other reason than the FACT that it is the only the right wing (politically) that supports the union, then the case for an Independent Scotland is proven if not yet won. 
    So back to my point, should we have a truth and reconciliation committee or just say ya lost get it up ya

  51. Barontorc says:

    The really good question is, why do many Old Firm supporters keep voting for the Union, which is demonstrably anti-working class and they are steeped in that tradition.
    It is understandable that Unionist and loyal Rangers supporters will always vote for GB/UK, but for the other half of the Old Firm, it is simply beyond any logic, history or understanding to want to keep close to it.
    Do they recall that the leader of Glasgow City Council, Gordon Mathieson, ran to the Orange Order to get their votes and keep Labour in power in Glasgow with the promise that he would overturn a restriction on Orange parades in the city, just last year?
    Does the fact that these core Labour supporters who will generally be working class and proud of it, descendants of Irish immigrants, mostly Catholic and certainly not of an Orange persuasion, but siding with them, not register – just a tad?
    It’s like a brain-dead state, with no reasoning left but acceptance of the ‘normal’ and that’s a  state that will absolutely produce nothing but hard times for them and their families. They would be guaranteed something a huge lot better, future wise, if they but stepped towards the YES light. Does it not mean anything – are they so hooked on the lies and propaganda – to be so afeared of striding out , the status quo is a better place to be?
    If they’re interested in figures, it’s sitting at 30 – 40 – 30. They have to be in the 40 group or just plain bonkers to be declaring as unionists – take that step, find out the truth of it all! 
    Vote YES for your families.

  52. BillyBigbaws says:

    dundee bloke said: “So back to my point, should we have a truth and reconciliation committee or just say ya lost get it up ya”

    I’m not happy at all with the way Scotland has been treated under the Union, and the continuing lies and feeble attempts at partition are extremely grating, but I don’t think we’ll ever need a TRC-style process.

    The UK’s not great, but it’s hardly Apartheid South Africa. We’ve been ripped off and deceived, that’s all – which is pretty standard treatment whenever a powerful system knows it can get away with it – but we haven’t been routinely murdered or had chemical and biological weapons tested on us!

    As many members of the Green Brigade might say: “Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.”

    As far as I’ve heard, the Green Brigade “officially” support independence, so if there’s some kind of co-ordinated attempt between the BBC and Labour to (once again) portray the Scottish Government as dangerously authoritarian they’re unlikely to be in on it.

  53. JLT says:

    The Man in the Jar says:
    On the other hand I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of folk (mostly farmers) Who thought it would be an excellent idea if Cumbria came with Scotland and they were only half joking.
    I car share with a Geordie, and he says if it was possible, he would want Yorkshire to split away from England and go with Scotland too. He also sees no real future in England, let alone the north of England.

  54. Aplinal says:

    re the Geordie – you do know that’s someone from Newcastle, don’t you?  So although he may want Yorkshire to join Scotland (that would be a “Tyke”), he probably wants Northumberland [and the “Tyne and Wear bit with Newcastle]as well 😉
    I think there are many in the north of England that would happily join Scotland.  They have been as poorly served by Westminster as Scotland.  (And they don’t have a get out of jail card!)

  55. Bruce says:

    The vote is just what you would expect from the scum who are supposed to be our elected representatives now but what has equally shocked me has been the total lack of coverage on the news, papers etc. A government backed by the ‘ alleged ‘ opposition have just said that the if they don’t like a court decision they will change the law to ammend it. Sorry but we are now into very dangerous waters, how far right will these people go and how far are we going to allow them.

  56. Macart says:

    There is no Conservative, Labour or Liberal, there is only Westminster.

  57. mrbfaethedee says:

    Has the Civitas article changed?
    I opened it but didn’t read it last night. From here I opened it again and it looks a lot smaller and different, but maybe I’m misremembering.

  58. Aplinal says:

    I think you are right,  the page seems a lot shorter now.  What was that site that tracked articles and changes?

  59. mrbfaethedee says:

    The Rev responded on the next thread – I think he has a cached copy that he’ll put up.
    Seems a shame that Civitas saw fit to pull back like that – although i guess it wouldn’t take too much of a lean to make them pull the article, given that nobody in the msm has the balls to bring home the ramifications of these actions to the law and the relationship between state and citizen.

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