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Wings Over Scotland

The imperfect kiss

Posted on June 22, 2019 by

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417 to “The imperfect kiss”

  1. Craig Evans says:

    Absolutely brilliant Chris!

  2. Frank Gillougley says:

    Ruth who?

  3. jimnarlene says:

    The bluff and bluster summed up superbly.

  4. Sharny Dubs says:

    The flip flop queen

  5. Tackety Beets says:

    As we used to say

    “Changed her mind more often than she changed her drawers”

  6. starlaw says:

    Totally failing to read the situation, with National and Scottish politics, time for a career change.

  7. manandboy says:

    Excellent, Chris. Love the slip note.

    Not quite Brutus backing Caesar. But then, Ruth is much smaller fry than Scotland’s Unionist media make her out to be.

  8. Cubby says:

    Great toon. Truthless Davidson like her Better Together partner Dugdale and Wendy Alexander and Douglas Alexander and Jim Murphy and on and on……. is on her way to political obscurity. Like the UK she represents she is a fraud.

  9. Effijy says:

    Wee Ruth is right behind her own behind.

    Of course UK Media don’t want this exposed or
    The two faced immoral liar would be seen in her
    True nasty blue colours

  10. Greannach says:

    What a horrible wee jobbie Colonel Flipflop is.

  11. Breeks says:

    All the tickets in the sweepstake bar one, and still loses.

  12. Colonel Ruthie lives by the words of that great thinker Marx,

    `These are my principles. If you don’t like them I have others`.

  13. Hamish100 says:

    Nice one…… Just for the record is Mundell away packing his bags to make way for a so called part time referee o something similar?

  14. manandboy says:

    Ruth Davidson MSP, two-faced calculating, manipulating, flip-flopping, smearing, Scotland-hating, bullying, self-serving, lying leader of the former English Conservative & Unionist Party, Scotland Branch, – now just the Tories.

    And that’s just the stuff we know about. Election expenses, Cambridge Analytica and dark money? For another time. Still waiting to be brought to light.

    It will be interesting to see if Boris Johnson MP as PM will back Ruth Davidson.

  15. Frank Gillougley says:

    Effijy 8.08

    Yes, with reference to the Wizard of Oz, now the transparent curtain of zero media scrutiny is drawn back, it reveals ruth (who) has actually been talking to no other than herself!

    A beautifully illuminating cartoon, Chris.

  16. Ken500 says:

    One of the best ever. Cairns not failure Davidson. The Tories into oblivion. In self destruct button mode as per usual. Maybe two years to go before this farce ends. For even more chaos. What an absolute mess and shambles the Westminster unionists get in. Time and time again.

    Boris or Hunt will be a disaster. The usual Tory comedians who are no joke. Can anyone believe it the dope on a rope. He will not last until October. Then they will have another ‘leadership’ election. Elect a handful of muppets. No a ounce of ‘talent’ between them. Westminster unionist the world embarrassment. 124,000 members continue with the farce.

  17. Flower of Scotland says:

    Ruth Davidson , Alex Cole Hamilton and the Bettertogether mob were at the Royal Highland show together and taking selfies. They proudly put them up on Twitter.

    Losers all of them!

  18. Capella says:

    What does the FM do all day? Well here she is at the RHS, campaigning for Independence.

    Of course, for balance, the BBC have to interview TWO Tories to contradict the FM. Not Ruth though, surprisingly. Perhaps she didn’t want to be asked if she is now supporting Boris Johnston, who is now all over the front pages for a “domestic”.

    Hunt and Johnson ‘out of touch’ with Scotland, Sturgeon says –

  19. Socrates MacSporran says:

    If I was Sarah Smith, I’d be worried. Even BBC London must now realise, Labour in Scotland is finished, but, they will need someone with London’s best interests at heart as Scotland Editor.

    With BoJo in Downing Street, Ruth is yesterday’s burnt toast as far as the Tories are concerned – so, a return to Pacific Quay, as a replacement for Smith, would seem like the best, next move for the good Colonel.

    She’s a chancer, looking after Number One. Sarah, be afraid, be very afraid. I can see the next big BBC Shortbread production: Ruth’s Return.

  20. Abulhaq says:

    As an ardent nationalist ‘fundamentalist’, every nanosecond Scotland remains shackled to England, stuck in the shade and not in the sun, is a pain.
    That there are Scots like Davidson seemingly content with such a marginal, inconsequential status for their country and its people is in the current political environment beyond comprehension.
    We may mock these people but their influence is way beyond a joke.
    They are dirty players.
    On the subject of dirty, Iran is not to be ‘taken out’, at least not yet.

  21. Terry callachan says:

    Proud of the renewables industry in Scotland ?
    I was , until I read this !

  22. Terry callachan says:

    Biggest wind farm yet off the coast of Angus sold to a Chinese company
    Can’t Scotland do this itself ?


  23. Terry callachan says:

    Biggest wind farm yet off the coast of Angus sold to a Chinese company
    Can’t Scotland do this itself ?

    I live in Dundee , heard nothing about it until reading this report on common space

  24. manandboy says:

    We could become Independent only to find that Scotland is already almost completely foreign-owned. What’s the point of that!

  25. Capella says:

    BBC still hasn’t got the Scottish Front pages up so, of course, one checks The National to see why.

    Here it is. Today they start their Independence Campaign. Buy a copy and use it to persuade one other person of the merits of Independence – which should be easy now!

  26. Robert Peffers says:

    Right on the button, Chris, as usual.

  27. Morgatron says:

    Hahaha, her wee fat gerbil face is gonna blow up. Poor Dierdrie Mundell must be shittin a brick too – his fading star burnt out all too soon, oh my sides!

  28. manandboy says:

    Perhaps too many SNP politicians in long-term cushy jobs, living the good life, have forgotten what it was like before they were elected. Money changes people. The more money, the more change.

    Are our leaders now insulated from, and out of touch with, the reality of the vast majority of Scotland’s people?

    Are they still motivated for Independence – or motivated just to keep their jobs and their seat on the Holyrood gravy train? Such a big temptation, as can be seen elsewhere.

    Right now, it’s hard to tell. With some, like Nicola, it is clear to see she is putting in a shift every day, but what about the rest whom we rarely hear about.

    All the while we remain under Colonial rule from Westminster. And suffer as a result. Now we’re told everything has or is being sold off.

  29. galamcennalath says:

    A one trick cuddie whose only real interest is preserving her precious union.

    On other politics she says what she feels best for her union at that moment, but will u-turn on anything and everything.

    Mind you, if she were ever to u-turn on the union, we know it’s definitely all over!

  30. Capella says:

    Oh look – the BBC has managed to get the front pages up 12 minutes ago. The British front pages are normally up before midnight the day before (as I’ve pointed out any times).

  31. robert alexander harrison says:

    Now you see why the english conservatives dont listern to the likes of davidson thats why they pulled out the vow when she said not to as if they went her way we’d of won in 2014 and been shot of England and its london dictatorship.

  32. Alex Smith says:

    Is that Daphne Broon?

  33. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Alex Smith @ 10.00am

    You Sir are a cad and a bounder; to malign the fair Miss Daphne Broon, of 10 Glebe Street – by suggesting she bears a resemblance to Colonel Yadaftie.

    Miss Broon is a lot fairer, and with a far-nicer personality.

  34. auld highlander says:

    Daphnie Broon looks a hell of a lot better than that sack of .

  35. Eppy says:

    I think that there is lots more potentially bad press about Boris, and too many people know about various things in his background that will upset even the Boris supporting Conservative electorate. Comments in the last few days about how Boris was spending fathers day and how many children does he actually have may be irrelevant to people prepared to forgive him as “a bit of a lad”. But the comments of “would you trust him with your wife?” may highlight issues of disloyalty which all but the most ardent brexiteers may not be willing to dismiss.

    In June 2013, the press covered rumours which had reportedly shocked David Cameron about an affair between two senior members of the Conservative party. An announcement was then made that neither was a member of the cabinet and the matter was then swept under the carpet rather rapidly.

    At that time, Boris was not in the cabinet as he was the Mayor of London. The question remains if it was Boris, who the other party to the affair might be, and why was Cameron so shocked?

    The British press, constrained by fears over Levinson did not take the matter further but other countries had their own spin. The Jerusalem Post of June 19 2013 was able to speculate away.

    Gove declared his cocaine use to avoid situations in the future coming back to bite him. I suspect he at least knew a bit of Boris’s past that could be highly damaging with the party faithful.

  36. Dr Jim says:

    In Scotland we say *As long as there’s one hundred of us alive we’ll fight for Independence*

    In England they say *As long as there’s one hundred of us voting Tory in Scotland we rule Scotland*

    One of these statements is dictatorial

    In England they say *We voted for Brexit and won*
    In Scotland supporters of England say *Quite a lot of us voted for Brexit and we lost but in Tory democratic law we won*
    In England they say the Tories have a mandate to rule no matter what the percentage of victory
    In Scotland the Tories say the SNP have no mandate to rule because we decide on how much of a percentage is enough

    In the first referendum for a Scottish parliament my father counted as a NO voter because he was dead

    These are the kind of rules that Tories will always invent in order to keep themselves in power
    Tories in Scotland know and understand perfectly well they are wrong and unpopular so why do they still remain wrong and unpopular, why do they never change their minds when faced with the truth

    Tory ideology is that they are superior to the rest and must rule regardless of truth opinion or fact

    Just because a Tory woman wears a twin set and pearls or a Tory man wears a smart dark suit and lives in Perth makes it no less the uniform we know them by

    Who are the foreigners the Tories keep complaining about
    Well in Scotland, it’s them, it’s the Tories who are the foreigners because every other colour creed and religion vote against them yet they still insist it’s their God given right to rule over every person of every type even if all those persons oppose them

    Who are the people who are really a cult? It’s them, Tories,
    whose ideology is and will always be 1+1 will only ever equal what we say it does and we reserve the right to change our minds should that rule unfavour us

  37. Paul Newton says:

    I met Ruth and her lovely baby in a restaurant a few weeks ago, we didn’t discuss politics, just the baby but she could see I was wearing a pro independence T shirt.
    We don’t need to be personally insulting about her appearance, sexual orientation or even her personality, we just need to keep up the wonderful work on campaigning, persuading and convincing voters to back self determination.
    Ruth probably already knows she on the wrong horse, sure it brought a narrow victory in 2014, and a Tory improvement in 2017, but she knows the handicapper has caught up and she’s now on the same horse that finished Johanne, Jim, Kezia, Blair and many others political careers.
    She has her reasons for trying to defend the indefensible, if we keep working hard and feeding her out more rope….then we’ll all get what we want.
    (i’m more worried about Arlene moving over here after Ireland votes to become united)

  38. Brian McGowan says:

    the changes in her facial expression through those 6 pics is brilliant

  39. Doug says:

    But, but, but, the British nationalist media, especially the BBC, think she’s infallible.

  40. kapelmeister says:

    The third picture never actually happened. She only supported Mick Gove for 3 hours and never got to stand at a microphone and endorse him.

  41. Dr Jim says:

    Norway has a Trillion dollars surplus in the bank in case of shocks to their country’s system and the world applauds their prudence

    Scotland has a few million left over from their budget and Unionists in Scotland and England scream slush fund

    Unionists scream Scotland must have a deficit to prove Scotland’s useless, but when the SNP don’t have that deficit they’re con artists rogues and don’t care about the poor

    Labour Tory and Liberal Democrats all agree with each other on this yet when former Labour FM Jack McConnell returned hundreds of millions to Westminster unspent because he claimed he couldn’t think of anything to spend it on, these same parties supported that decision

    The Tory party, all inclusively open to the other Unionist parties in Scotland who are all just as Tory as the blue one’s but they call themselves different names so you’ll think you’re voting for something else

    You’re not!

  42. Josef Ó Luain says:

    @ manandboy

    You’ve answered, if obliquely, your own questions.The dearth of ambition amongst the Scottish middle-classes/politicians has stymied the country’s development for generations. Witness: Davidson and Mundell.

  43. “Aw forget it” indeed.
    That should be Colonel flip-flop on the way out now.
    Her reading to this whole pantomime has been very poor.
    As former “Darling of the Party” she could make sweeping statements and be the talk of the Tory steamy. Cute wee Ruth telling it as she saw fit, slagging May’s rivals, towing the party line every time – and the great Tory hope of installing one of their number as FM of Scotland.
    Well, good luck with that last ambition.
    As for the rest of it, the Colonel is now experiencing a rebellion in the ranks – her position as party mascot has evaporated and her “wise” council is irrelevant.
    What is it they say…
    Live by the sword, die by the sword.

  44. Joe says:

    @Dr jim

    Good posts. The Tories like to frame themselves as merely ‘conservative’. They are not. They are the party of an utterly corrupt, self serving classist establishment of high profile, generational criminals. Thats why I could never be one despite being no fan of the left.

  45. kapelmeister says:

    Tory MP Antoinette Sandbach has revealed she was sent messages by a male Tory MP saying she is a disgrace who should quit the party. All because she had supported Rory Stewart in the leadership contest.

    This, along with the video clip of Mark Field shows the new ever nastier Tory Party that is locked in a race to the right with the Brexit Party. All to win the votes of the reactionary hordes in England.

    We don’t need a Yes version of Project Fear to win independence. We just need to say “look”.

  46. Pete says:

    Must say, I thought Mark Field was quite in order in what he did.
    I think we’re all far too soft nowadays.
    If someone came into my house uninvited I know what I’d do to them.
    Time to toughen up!

  47. Auld Rock says:

    Brilliant but I forlornly hope she would ‘FORGET IT’ in fact, I wish she’d get lost.

  48. TheBuchanLoony says:

    Re Boris, this bit caught my attention…’When contacted by the Guardian on Friday, police initially said they had no record of a domestic incident at the address. But when given the case number and reference number, as well as identification markings of the vehicles that were called out, police issued a statement saying: “At 00:24hrs on Friday, 21 June, police responded to a call from a local resident in [south London]. The caller was concerned for the welfare of a female neighbour.’…met police involved in a political cover up??

  49. Cubby says:


    Like a bit of violence do you?

    In case you hadn’t noticed it was not Mark Fields house. The protestors just walked in – no one stopped them – through an open door.

    So your analogy of them breaking into someone’s house is just mince.

    Try and get your facts correct before advocating violence. Mr Hard man.

  50. Welsh Sion says:

    TheBuchanLoony @ 11.25 am

    Re: the ‘Boris altercation w/ partner allegation’.

    Puts you in mind (for those of us of longer memories) of that episode of Yes Minister when Jim Hacker is elevated to the Premiership.

    Do you recall that prior to being the winning candidate – and coming through the middle, threatening to destroy the credentials of the last two candidates – he was stopped for drink-driving? Nothing came of that, of course, (for the sake of the plot), and Hacker swept into Number 10 on the ‘patriotic ticket’ of ‘saving the British sausage.’

    With the current situation in the Tory Party, the episode is well worth a re-visit.

  51. Cubby says:


    “We just need to say look”

    Great point.

  52. Footsoldier says:

    “Tory tensions and keeping the UK intact” article on BBC Scotland website by Glen Campbell.

    Campbell always refers to Scottish nationalists but never British nationalists – doesn’t see how biased that looks within Scotland.

  53. ahundredthidiot says:

    I am sure Mark Field will have wee Ruthies full support.

  54. kapelmeister says:

    Boris Johnson at the centre of shouting and screaming and pandemonium and police called to the house.

    That’s not a report. It’s a prediction of when he’s PM and “the house” being the House of Commons.

  55. manandboy says:

    Gaby Hinsliff flags up the Lynton Crosby/Tory strategy under Boris Johnson for the next GE

    “At a debate hosted by the Policy Exchange thinktank last week, the strategist Lynton Crosby, widely expected to run Johnson’s first general election campaign if he becomes leader, sketched out how he thought the Tories might win again. The model is Scott Morrison, the Australian politician who confounded pollsters, bookies and pundits by winning a surprise re-election victory shortly after assuming the leadership of the governing Liberal party. Morrison had, Crosby explained, pitched himself as the man for “quiet Australians” – people who don’t follow politics closely, aren’t active on social media, and just want to be left to get on with life – and won by aligning himself with their gut values. The next Tory leader should also pitch themselves as being on the side of what the Australian prime minister Robert Menzies famously called the “forgotten people”, better known here as John Major’s “silent majority”, Tony Blair’s “hardworking families”, and David Cameron’s middle income “strivers”. It may seem an oddly retro approach for the unpredictable times we’re living through, but Crosby clearly still believes elections all come down in the end to telling a story of shared, broadly socially conservative values.

    And that’s why the Mansion House incident matters; it’s a perfect litmus test of where people stand on those values.”

    Whether such a strategy will be able to override the all-dominating and deep Brexit divide between Leavers and Remainers, must be in serious doubt. We shall see. But at least we have been warned.

    By then, Ruth Davidson’s ‘booming bully’ profile, may have been reduced somewhat to something approaching a pip squeak. Here’s hoping.

  56. Scotspatriot says:

    The Tory week just gets worse. HMRC name the head Tory Fundraising honcho as a Tax Cheat.
    This shouldn’t come as any surprise to anyone outside Tory Circles !
    I think it surprised The Herald, who’s got the story up, right now.
    Sorry, don’t know how to do archive !

  57. Republicofscotland says:

    Good one Chris, however Davidson will squirm and contort into any shape or pose needed to back Johnson in the long run.

  58. jfngw says:

    If this cartoon was expanded to include every Ruth Davidson U-Turn Chris Cairns would have his next book wrapped up within the day.

  59. donnywho says:

    Tories and violence against women.

    The incident at the Dinner, the Protester and the Solidarity shown by those attending by “table thumping” their delight! Thus expressing their support for the assault and man handling of the lady in red.

    Put together they made me flashback to scenes in “The Handmaidens Tale”.

    They shows the same contempt for women, human rights, common decency and humane conduct as their fictional counterparts.

    But like their fictional counterparts they then applauded violence against those who would question their god given privileges. And justify it as upholding the law and protection against “potential” terrorism

  60. Robert Peffers says:

    @manandboy says:22 June, 2019 at 9:32 am:

    … Perhaps too many SNP politicians in long-term cushy jobs, living the good life, have forgotten what it was like before they were elected. Money changes people. The more money, the more change.”

    Yes, manandboy, and perhaps they have not, but I suppose that perhaps there are unionists who would perhaps want others to believe that perhaps they have.

    ” … Are our leaders now insulated from, and out of touch with, the reality of the vast majority of Scotland’s people?
    Are they still motivated for Independence – or motivated just to keep their jobs and their seat on the Holyrood gravy train? Such a big temptation, as can be seen elsewhere.”

    Indeed and despotism can also be seen elsewhere, dictatorship and warmongering also. Even those who were ready to attack and kill innocent people over a shot down unmanned drone.

    ” … Right now, it’s hard to tell. With some, like Nicola, it is clear to see she is putting in a shift every day, but what about the rest whom we rarely hear about.”

    Well I not only hear about many of them working their socks off all the time but I post links to videos showing them doing so. Just the other day I posted a link to an Ian Blackford meeting on the Northern Isles. A very well attended meeting and an obviously well informed group of attendees.

    Of course if you rely upon the SMSM, both dead tree and broadcasting, you are not going to know what these SNP councillors, MSPs, MPs and MEPs are doing, but then, perhaps you really do not want to know nor want others to know.

    Now before you go crying like a baby because someone casts doubts upon your motives on an open independence supporting forum, manandboy, consider this – it works like this, if you perceive it is all right for you to cast aspersions about people not here to defend themselves then is it less all right to cast aspersions at you who is here to defend yourself.

    Are you, perhaps a desperate sleeper now coming out of the woodwork to attempt to damage the only political party, or indeed the only actual path to independence, that exists in Scotland simply because you personally, “never hear”, about what they are doing?

  61. galamcennalath says:

    Tories only manage to get into power by hiding their true attitudes, opinions and objectives. They wear a veneer of acceptability.

    However recently, with the rise of the far right especially in England and increasing public acceptability of expressing nasty views, the Tories are letting their veils slip with increasing frequency.

    In certain quarters, being seen as nasty is now an asset!

    Scotland isn’t immune and Tories politicians here have some particularly nasty streaks – look at their WM voting record.

    I know Tory voters who definitely aren’t nasty in their everyday lives. IMO those ones have to be gullible to not see true nature of their chosen party. Perhaps others remember a different type of Tory – ones willing to bring investment to Scotland. Or maybe Tories-of-old were just better at keeping their guards up – I remember the 60s Support Rhodesia stickers.

    I do wonder if within the ranks of Tory voters, some might be offended by the ‘new nasty right’? I wonder how many are comfortable with a PM who has the sexual morals of a feral cat? Just how much lying does it take before some Tory voters see liars before them?

    Clearly a lot of Tory voters don’t care as long as their wealth and privilege is protected. However, they aren’t all quite so callous.

  62. Bob Mack says:

    She genuinely does want to keep the Union intact.

    Where else could she get such a job with so few skills?

    Self serving. In an independent Scotland she would disappear into obscurity as she deserves. This is not about principle or a precious Union. It is about being able to pay her bills.

  63. manandboy says:

    Glenn Campbell, any excuse to feature Ruth ‘Booming Bully’ Davidson in the BBC’s headlines, reminds Scotland of the inconsistencies and contradictions in Ms Davidson’s policy statements. She wants to stay in the Union in preference to
    leaving the EU, a minority view in her party.
    She also seems to want to ban Divorce altogether as if the Marriage between Scotland and England was agreed as being in perpetuity. Silly lassie.

    “In response to the YouGov poll she said: “There are a number of people in the Conservative Party that need to take a long hard look at themselves.

    “Of course we’ve got to deliver Brexit but not at the expense of breaking up the United Kingdom”.
    She should brush up on her reading skills – the writing has been on the wall for ages. You can’t do both, Ruthie.

    The Brexit avalanche continues to rumble and crash its way downhill sweeping away everything in its path.

    Including the Union.

  64. call me dave says:

    Hark the Herald story archived.

    The BBC thought Ruthie was infallible!

    I read that as inflatable at first… 🙂 Almost correct.

  65. Petra says:

    Spot on Chris. And, eh, Ruth actually agrees with you. Next up Ruth’s kiss of death for the Tories in Scotland. Bury them along with their Better Together Labour mates.

    ‘Tory leadership: Ruth Davidson apologises for Michael Gove ‘kiss of death”

    ..”Immediately after the result was announced, Ms Davidson tweeted an apology to Mr Gove for giving him the “kiss of death”.”..


    Flip Flop Davidson video.

  66. Frank Gillougley says:

    Here’s what i think is an illuminating view to shed some light on the smokescreen of justifications on the Mark Field fracas.

    Bear with me here – this incident reminded me (and long forgotten about til the other day) when as a boy being in church, one rare hot Sunday, a dog walked into the church while mass was going on as the doors were open. To my astonishment, the priest actually stopped whatever he was doing or reading and he went over and grabbed the dog by the scruff of its neck and flung it outside.

    Now, the point I am trying to make is obviously not to compare the woman in question to a dog, but that to me, from an anthropological viewpoint (concerning human societal cultural relationships) Mark Field’s choice of action was clearly demonstrative in grabbing her neck, in that he wanted it to be seen by his peers that this ‘other’ human being, was to be accorded no more respect than that given by a huntsman throwing a fox to the hounds. That the neck was chosen to show that he had the power of life or death over this person. And that for me, was his crime. He had zero honour and zero respect for his own.

    Just shocking. There was no need for that behaviour. Clearly, he was also grandstanding to his collected ‘conservative’ peers. These people are not ‘conservative’ by any stretch of the meaning of the word. They are literally beyond description.

    Just see how sharp those teeth are, beneath the veneer of respectability.

  67. Capella says:

    @ Welsh Sion – how to archive:
    1 Right click on the link and click “copy link address”
    2 Open archive today –
    3 Paste your copied link into the red text box “my url is alive…
    4 Click “save”.
    5 If the link is already archived a notice will pop up and tell you so. Just accept that and use the already archived link
    6 If it hasn’t been archived, archive today will start the process of archiving. May take a few minutes.
    7 When complete you will have a link in the address bar like this: which is your archived link.
    8 Bookmark Archive today for future reference.


  68. manandboy says:

    Robert Peffers says:at 12:15 pm re @manandboy at 9:32 am:

    “Now before you go crying like a baby because someone casts doubts upon your motives on an open independence supporting forum, manandboy, consider this – it works like this, if you perceive it is all right for you to cast aspersions about people not here to defend themselves then is it less all right to cast aspersions at you who is here to defend yourself.”

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, Robert. Your assumptions, like your logic, are flawed. But hey, we’re all human. As for ‘crying like a baby’, well I haven’t done that since, let me think, since in fact I was a baby, and that was just after the War.
    Sure, I’m a bit nippy today, set off by the Robin McAlpine piece on, among other things, the sale of some of Scotland’s renewable assets to the Chinese, and I know it’s not devolved, but ScotGov could and should have kept us abreast of such activity and made a noise about it. Not even the outstanding Ian Blackford MP, to my knowledge, has made any public comment about it. I await information to the contrary.

    Ps. I trust you are reasonably well, and glad of it that being the case.

  69. jfngw says:

    Ruth Davidson and her MSP’s are actually now a sideshow, they hoped to make her FM so that Holyrood’s powers would be given up with consent. They have abandoned that plan and plan B is now in operation, this is to transfer most of Holyrood’s powers to David Mundell (or whoever replaces him). They have already started the process, even having their MSP’s calling Holyrood dysfunctional.

    They are making it plain, there will be no independence through the democratic route. If you want it you will need to take it, Westminster has never given up its possessions voluntarily.

    Maybe they will claim they are taking over to protect the majority they claim are calling for intervention, think Sudetenland.

  70. manandboy says:

    Frank Gillougley says:

    “To my astonishment, the priest actually stopped whatever he was doing or reading and he went over and grabbed the dog by the scruff of its neck and flung it outside.”

    Good story, Frank, but did he do it with a smile on his face. In his shoes, or those of any butcher, baker or restaurant owner, in the same circumstances, I suspect most people would do something similar. BTW, was the creature a Catholic dog, in which case my sympathy lies with the dog.

  71. Dr Jim says:

    Tories now complaining the FM is *hoovering* up voters from Irish Republicans, Muslims,Unemployed, Unemployable scroungers,Illegals,Sectarian bigots,Paedophiles,Thieves and Sex offenders which adds up to their 45% of the electorate, they say

    I’m just amazed at the competence of the SNP to keep crime at a 43 year low considering the Tories say almost half the population of Scotland according to them are terrible people

    It seems to reinforce the truth of who Tories think they are that being an Irish Republican, or a Muslim should be seen by them as criminal and or unworthy and as far as sectarian bigots is concerned I think the Tories have cornered the market in that regard, as for the unemployable category that sounds like a set of people who probably require assistance of some kind, ie: folk suffering from mental or physical health problems which again says everything about Tory compassion for the weak or vulnerable

    As far as the *scroungers* are concerned, given that Scotland has only 3.4% unemployed, which is the lowest unemployment in the British Isles well there just aren’t very many of those folk in Scotland

    We come to the last section of people the Tories complain about, the actual criminals, which once again brings us back to the crime figures in Scotland which are lower than any other country region territory of the British Isles, and those are not just SNP figures, those are Police Scotland figures

    So by highlighting all of these people the Tories have once again demonstrated clearly to anyone who can read words and has a functioning brain that they are in fact a seriously set of very bad people who tell seriously bad lies and are prepared to lie seriously about anything that pops into their lying heads at any given time then share these lies with their sister parties the Lib Dems and Labour to spout all over again

    One more thing must be pointed out, the Tories by these statements, feel that if you are NOT one of them you must therefore be ready to be hoovered up by the SNP making you, whoever you are and whatever you support *Unworthy*

    So how do you like being *Unworthy* Scotland, because the Tories say you are

  72. jfngw says:

    Another unionist mantra, the oil should be left in the ground if Scotland is independent but obviously utilised to the full if we remain in the UK.

    It’s a neat idea, you can discount the assets of an independent Scotland but use the same assets to enhance the UK GDP, hence prove how difficult independence will be without the encompassing hands of the UK.

  73. Petra says:

    C’mon folks. Support the only newspaper that supports us. Buy it or subscribe (£1.53 a week).


    ‘Let’s have 10,000 conversations about independence in Scotland today.’

    …”The National asks readers to pick up an extra copy to share our eight-page special feature with friends, family and colleagues over a conversation about the future. It is hoped that these 10,000 conversations will help address the questions voters might have about why they should choose independence, and that the fact-filled spreads we’ve created will deliver plenty to talk about.”..


    ‘Question Time woman praised for comments on knife crime in Scotland.’


    QT Programme.

    You tell them Missus. 45 mins in.

  74. Mac says:

    Never kiss anyone with a 5 O’Clock shadow

  75. robertknight says:

    Mooth Davidson… more faces than a deck of cards.

  76. Welsh Sion says:

    Thanks, Capella.

    Copying and pasting your info. for future use! 🙂

  77. Frank Gillougley says:

    Manandboy 1:12

    It being a surreal kinda day, I remember talking to the dog in question afterwards. He explained that he tended more toward the Amish approach to life, eschewing all matters technological.

    Ah now, i replied, ‘That would be an ecumenical matter, Duke.’

  78. Ken500 says:

    One of the best ever. Cairns. Not Davidson The Tories are toast. Johnstone the dope in a rope another altercation. He would not last until October for another leadership’ election. The Tory/unionist imbeciles not a worthwhile ‘candidate’ between them. Only two years to go into oblivion. What an absolute mess and shambles. The Westminster unionists a total world embarrassment.

  79. Ken500 says:

    Subscribe to the National (reluctantly the Herald Groundhog Day).

    Also buy it wherever it is available. One of the only Indy supporting MSM.

    Wings is genius. Beats them every time.

  80. Petra says:

    The Union (England) without Scotland has nought to offer anyone at all. Jim Rodgers:- ”Without Scottish oil, little England won’t have much to sell to the outside world anymore.”

    Posting this again for new visitors to the site.

  81. Ken500 says:

    The wheel chair tennis really is amazing. What a speed they go at. The strength and skill. So entertaining.

  82. Ken500 says:

    It is only because of SNP wise policy and investment that they are surplus renewables to sell off (to the Chinese) in an open market. The monies and profits raised can be set against further future investment. A win win situation. Good SNP investment policies. Taxes etc still raised agin it. Alex Salmond/SNP investment being realised for cheaper power for consumers. The turbines turning for cheaper clean power and fuel in Scotland. It could raise even£Billions more come Independence. One of the reasons for it.

  83. HandandShrimp says:

    Boris looked to have this sewn up. I wonder if his stairheid rammy is going to scupper him?

    His hope will be that Hunt is seen as Maybot MkII. Still it does beg some interesting questions. What will no 10 be like with those two lobbing plates at each other. Posh Eastenders?

    Ruth is out on a limb regardless. She didn’t back either of them at any point in the race until it was too late to be credible.

  84. Ken500 says:

    More Tory/unionists tax dodgers. Illegal donations a total waste of monies. The Tory/unionist money wasters are facing oblivion. What a waste of time, space and money. GE election will wipe them out
    Good riddance.

  85. Ken500 says:

    Common Weal just do not understand business. In a green space paradise nonentity. Not in the real world. The cheap fuel and power, taxes and profits realised will outwith any concerns about about ownership. A great investment into Scotland. A win, win. Great clean low cost energy. A great investment in.

  86. Dr Jim says:

    All the political commentators and news presenters when they talk about Scotland make the exact same brainwashed propagandised mistake whether deliberately or by accident

    And it’s this …..

    Scotland cannot leave the UK because Scotland IS the UK ergo you can’t leave yourself

    Whenever the commentators make this *mistake* what they’re doing is making the assumption that England and it’s properties are the UK…….that’s 100% wrong, inaccurate, untruthful and tosh

    When Scotland decides not to continue to participate in the continuation of the UK, that title does not revert to England or anywhere else, that title vanishes, gone disappeared, meets it’s maker,dissolved, a dead parrot if you will

    Scotland on Independence day terminates the UK

    If they’re going to continue calling us names I would rather enjoy the title of *Terminator* it kinda makes me feel more Swartz Svarts Swartsineggery

    Oh Big Arnie like!

  87. Marcia says:

    Farage’s propaganda leaflet arrived today with the usual junk leaflets. Returned to the printer who printed it with a note.

  88. Cubby says:

    Dr Jim

    A series of excellent posts. Back on form today.

  89. schrodingers cat says:

    asked who i’d support, bojo or mike hunt……….. in truth, i dont care but it is very clear that the unionits here dont want bojo, ergo……..

    also, the scottish conservative and unionist party but in england it wa only ever called the conservative part. recently i heard it frequently called the conservative and unionist party

  90. schrodingers cat says:

    vicious rumour about bojo shagging keunsberg…….

    cant retweet this often enough 🙂

  91. Ottomanboi says:

    If Johnson is PM I think the SNP may well have to change tack, if not upgrade the ‘craft’. He is an erratically manoeuvring HP power boat, enjoys making waves and does not care about the backwash. There are benefits to be had here. Readiness for attack, is always the best form of defence.

  92. Scott says:

    Why is Davidson shouting about this is it because she knows its a lot of 8rap.

    Scotland set to get hundreds of millions of pounds more in ‘direct funding’ under new Tory PM.

  93. call me dave says:


    Because their latest is to by-pass the SG and Sottish parliament to sow money into areas / projects that benefit the unionist agenda.

    That is in Unionist voting areas where the have a foothold

    It is called pork bellied politics (American name).

    It is getting down to their last beezer ideas in the Tory bag of tricks.

  94. Phil says:

    BBC Shortbread Sat, 22 June 2019 : GMS, Izzy Fraser squeezes in Iain McWhirter for his sage analysis. Listen at about 08:27 +/- a minute or so. His theme of Scotland having been given the resounding message “NO” is used to reinterpret the latest You Gov poll which reported
    “60% of Tory members/voters prefer Brexit to keeping Scotland within the Union”
    which Iain analyses out to mean 60% of Tories say no to another Scottish Indy Ref.
    But there is no time to discuss this further – of course!
    So, the Rev’s post of 18,June 2019 was all wrong. Was it?
    McWhirter’s view of Scotland’s shackled position is changing. Methinks Iain supports Scotland less and less.

  95. Proud Cybernat says:


    Changes to franchise rights with regards to residency:

  96. Dr Jim says:

    Ian McWhirter is a firm and lifelong supporter of his wages and whoever pays them

  97. Terry callachan says:

    To Ken500..your post at 2.51 pm

    You said

    “ It is only because of SNP wise policy and investment that they are surplus renewables to sell off (to the Chinese) in an open market. The monies and profits raised can be set against further future investment. A win win situation. Good SNP investment policies. “

    Honestly Ken , did you even read the common space report about this by Kenneth MacAlpine ?
    I guess you didn’t because what you say just does not make sense

    Here is the report

    What robin MacAlpine is saying is that Scotland’s resources continue to be sold to the highest bidder the most recent being renewables which he says could be built engineered and owned by Scottish business but instead of that it is being sold off to China who will obviously give all the best well paid jobs to their own and will then sell our energy back to us making a hefty profit and forcing us to pay higher prices for what should be cheaper energy on our doorstep.

    I love what the SNP do and think Nicola Sturgeon is absolutely wonderful
    I do not know if they could stop this happening , I doubt it because it’s not devolved but they should be making a huge noise about it in Holyrood and Westminster

    selling the rights to build renewables off the coast of Angus to a Chinese business , no less than the actual Chinese government owned company by the way , is absolutely crazy for the simple and obvious reason that Scotland loses control of how it’s done ,who is employed and that includes losing the ability to train local people and award jobs to them as well as the skilled people we already have.
    Scotland is a world leader in this industry so giving it over to another country to develop what will be the biggest wind power and wave power plant in Scotland is just so wrong.

    Sure let’s build up SNP and Nicola Sturgeon but let’s not make out that somehow the bad has to be good so we can praise them for something that they have little control over

    Our oil and gas is sold to private business and we have no control
    Now the same is happening with wind and wave power
    As Robert MacAlpine says Scottish people might think they are socially minded
    but our country is the most capitalist privately owned country in the world

    Anyone but us owns our oil and gas
    Anyone but us own our land
    Anyone but us owns our wind and wave power
    Same for many many other wealth producing assets

    Get angry for heavens sake it’s the future of our children and grandchildren that is being stripped away

  98. Ottomanboi says:

    @Terry Callachan
    Sturgeon & the SNP are a means to end. You don’t have to “love” either of them. It’s politics.
    If the goods are delivered, they’ve done the job, but until then curb the sentiment.

  99. bjsalba says:

    Read a piece from the Express today. They are griping that the EU is not democratic again. They want an EU wide vote for the President of the Commission. What they mean of course is one they can buy with dirty money and Facebook ads and ”news”feeds. We see how well that has worked out in the USA.

    Wouldn’t it be great to have a President of the Commission at odds with both the EU27 council and the Parliament. Now that would really be democracy in action ~~~ NOT.

  100. Inverclyder says:

    The 6 faces of Unionism.

  101. Abulhaq says:

    Give ‘em an inch and they’ll want a mile.
    Some people are just never satisfied.
    We could do better without the socalled Greens and their social engineering.
    A collection of odd balls, misfits and weirdos.

  102. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ottomanboi says: 22 June, 2019 at 6:53 pm:

    … If the goods are delivered, they’ve done the job, but until then curb the sentiment.”

    Where did you get that daft idea?

    The name of the party is, “The Scottish NATIONAL Party”. It is not the Scottish Nationalist Party. That is it is the party of the nation of Scotland. Which is why, in government, they do their level best for the Nation of Scotland.

    They will not disband on day one of independence. What will happen is that those who only became SNP members to gain independence will slowly drift off to whatever right left and centre parties replace the Labour, Tory and LibDem English Nationalist parties but we have no indications what these new Scottish Parties will be as yet.

  103. mike cassidy says:


    Its a Saturday night.

    So enjoy this young Fifer who has spent the last decade establishing his standup credentials.

    I remember him starting out as a schoolboy.

    Shared a stage or two but that’s another story

  104. geeo says:

    Callachan on full on concern troll mode today, i see !

    Flogging the usual essenpee are crap mantra.

    Fooling nobody with at least 2 functioning brain cells.

  105. Welsh Sion says:

    Elsewhere in this shamocracy of the Disunited Kingdumb …

    7% more in favour of independence for Wales

    22 June 2019 at 12:20 Updated at 15:04

    There has been a 7% increase in the number of people in favour of independence for Wales between 2017 and 2019, according to a new YouGov survey.

    The 2017 questionnaire was commissioned by Yes Wales, an organization for the independence for Wales.

    This time, 1,133 people were questioned, and they were asked to rate how strong they are for independence for Wales – with 0 making them totally opposed, and 10 meaning they are fully supportive.

    0-4 is counted as opposition, 5 as neither supportive nor opposed, and 6-10 supportive.

    There is no record of those who said that they do not know either way.

    The questionnaire was completed online between May 10 and 15 this year, and only people over the age of 18 were asked.


    14% stated that they were very strongly in favour of independence (10 on the scale), compared to 10% two years ago.

    4% stated that they were number 9 on the scale, compared to 2% in 2017.

    5% had identified number eight, while 6% had stated that number two years ago.

    6% had identified number seven in both instances …

    while 7% had indicated number six this time compared to 5% in 2017.

    Overall, therefore, 36% put themselves between 6-10, compared to 29% two years ago.

    Only 47% say they oppose independence (0-5 on the scale), compared to 53% in 2017.


    Translation: Welsh Sion and Google Translate

  106. CameronB Brodie says:

    What is the purpose of principles and why would anyone look for them in a Tory? Principles make life easier as they define a set of values and moral logic that have been tested through time. Subsequently, we don’t have to rely on our individual moral intuition to guide our actions, when we face a conflict of interest. It’s just a pity that British nationalist like (t)Ruthless, appear ignorant of basic principles of moral democracy and the rule-of-law. Then again, British nationalism is the practice of Tory ethos and tradition.

    (t)Ruthless is a media construct designed specifically to maintain the Union, she has no concern for Scotland’s well-being, IMHO.

    The Phenomenology of Democracy


    Human beings originate votes, and democracy constitutes decisions. This is the essence of democracy. A phenomenological analysis of the vote and of the decision reveals for us the inherent strength of democracy and its deficiencies. Alexis de Tocqueville pioneered this form of enquiry into democracy and produced positive results from it. Unfortunately, his phenomenological method was inadequate and he missed the essential core of his ‘associative art’. The frequent association of democracy with rationality misleads us about its nature and its requirements. The phenomenology of democracy aligns with the governance concept of democracy. Many attempts to reform democracy, or impose it on others, are misplaced because they do not attend to the essence of democracy.

  107. HYUFD says:

    Welsh Sion So still an 11% lead for No to independence in Wales then and only 14% strongly in favour of independence. Remember too Wales voted Leave by almost exactly the same margin as the UK as a whole

  108. Ken500 says:

    The wind farm would not be built without Chinese investment. It is investment that will bring unfathomable gains to Scotland. £Billions of clean cheap energy. Scotland is the best place in the world to invest in renewable energy. Wind and wave because of geographical conditions. Without the Chinese it would not be build. The monies needed to build and construction and being put up by the Chinese, it is Scotland that will benefit in billions when the cheap energy is harvested and sold, A combined effort, Either the Chinese put up he investment or it would not be built, That is the point.

    The Scottish Gov does not have the necessary funding to invest, Either the Chinese funds help with the investment and funding. Or Scotland loses all the associate benefits, Loads and loads of benefit of cheap clean energy at the disposal. Providing jobs and profits in Scotland.. International investment. The way of the world for improved investment in loads of cheaper clean energy.

    The greens should be delighted. Instead they find a way to turn the success into a negative, Do they not want Scotland producing loads of clean cheaper energy to the benefit. Just like Norwegian world investment. Clean cheaper energy production benefits Scotland and the whole world, The green negative arguments are suspect, The usual suspect negativity. Cutting off their nose to spite their face as usual. Total lack of business acumen. Trading and investment in good beneficial project. A win win all round. A success story. Inward investment into Scotland for a quality project, Creating monetary gain all round.

  109. Ken500 says:

    Andy back in form

  110. Lenny Hartley says:

    For anybody watching your cheatin heart im on in a min heid banging to a tune ???

  111. Ken500 says:

    Gas & Oil, fuel and energy ar taxed to the hilt. The taxes on profits goes to Gov. £Billions depending on world price,

  112. Ken500 says:

    Scotland has a right to roam. Anyone can roam where they like. The Scottish people are socially minded and care about others. Especially the SNP Scottish Gov. Especially when compared to others. The Scottish economy Gov raises £60Billion in revenues to disposed, it could be even more if Independent and the monies put to better use. £80Billion like Norway,

    The Chinese buy plenty of salmon and whisky Scottish products, All 1.3Billion of them. International trade and investment. Direct flights. Plenty of Chinese tourists and students handing over their investment and monies. Scotland pro rata one of the most visited place in the world. Brings in £Billions.

  113. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s one for those still uncertain whether they are Scottish patriots or British nationalists.

    In Our Name: The Ethics of Democracy

    When we find ourselves appalled by our representatives’ actions, should we feel responsible for their behavior? What can we do to reduce our complicity with the actions that the government putatively takes on our behalf? These are the questions that animate Eric Beerbohm’s thoughtful and expansive book. Though group intention and collective responsibility constitute themes of major import within moral philosophy, political theorists have not regularly turned to this literature to explain democratic commitments. Beerbohm does so with elegance and verve, helping us to assess our obligations as citizens, and to understand the consequences when we, or our representatives, fall short….

  114. Lenny Hartley says:

    Bugger after thirty years ended up on the cutting roam floor, was in the original honest!

  115. Ken500 says:

    Nothing is being sold off to the Chinese. The Chinese are investing in producing billions of cheaper renewable energy in Scotland. The best place in the world to produce it. To bring benefits to Scotland. Either used or the surplus sold off. For profits in Scotland, Cheaper in comparison all round than other destructive fuel. Scotland gets the profits, taxes and benefits, in cheaper fuel and energy and jobs. For everyone’s grandchildren. It is not a protectionist market. Worldwide,

  116. Terry callachan says:

    Geeo ..really you shouldn’t post when you’re drunk
    Drink and tablets together not a good thing
    Keep taking your medicine
    Lay off the sauce
    I hope you get well soon

  117. Terry callachan says:


    Get real Otto.
    Scottish independence is all about sentiment
    If you don’t have it , you’re in the wrong place my friend

  118. Terry callachan says:

    Geeo…trying to be anonymous , failed

    Scottish independence is coming geeo you try and try to put people off but it’s pointless , only those who really care about Scottish independence come on to wings ,you accuse so many who come on to wings of being British nationalists you are such a busy bee for the britnat cause trying to put people off Scottish independence.

    It doesn’t work

    Our will to succeed is too strong for you

  119. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m getting back into practice, so here’s some Social Psychology on when sentiment becomes good, old-fashioned, prejudice. Full text.

    The motivation to express prejudice


    Contemporary prejudice research focuses primarily on people who are motivated to respond without prejudice and the ways in which unintentional bias can cause these people to act inconsistent with this motivation. However, some real-world phenomena (e.g., hate speech, hate crimes) and experimental findings (e.g., Plant & Devine, 2001; 2009) suggest that some expressions of prejudice are intentional.

    These phenomena and findings are difficult to explain solely from the motivations to respond without prejudice. We argue that some people are motivated to express prejudice, and we develop the motivation to express prejudice (MP) scale to measure this motivation. In seven studies involving more than 6,000 participants, we demonstrate that, across scale versions targeted at Black people and gay men, the MP scale has good reliability and convergent, discriminant, and predictive validity. In normative climates that prohibit prejudice, the internal and external motivations to express prejudice are functionally non-independent, but they become more independent when normative climates permit more prejudice toward a target group.

    People high in the motivation to express prejudice are relatively likely to resist pressure to support programs promoting intergroup contact and vote for political candidates who support oppressive policies. The motivation to express prejudice predicted these outcomes even when controlling for attitudes and the motivations to respond without prejudice. This work encourages contemporary prejudice researchers to broaden the range of samples, target groups, and phenomena that they study, and more generally to consider the intentional aspects of negative intergroup behavior.

  120. Dan says:

    Ken500 say: at 9:41 pm

    Scotland has a right to roam. Anyone can roam where they like. The Scottish people are socially minded and care about others.

    Technically the right to roam is now covered in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code.
    It’s not carte blanche to do as you want though, as there are responsibilities to adhere to when accessing the land.

    Mountain biking is a great example of one of the benefits we have in Scotland with access to explore our amazing land and scenery.
    Most folk are responsible but we still get the odd group of arseholes that dump their rubbish along the trails.
    My local mtb groups organise trail maintenance days and occasional litter picks to keep the area neat and tidy.

  121. Iain mhor says:

    Value for money cartoonery as ever.
    Was just thinking, Ruth is as isolated as she can possibly be really.
    The mother church Conservative party doesn’t want her, the DUP, (as Unionist as got oot) thinks she and her ilk are anathema, Near half of Scotland doesn’t want her and (wait for it) most of the other half doesn’t want the Conservatives or her either.

    She must have no sense of smell whatsoever.
    Roses all around and every morning she wakes up and only smells shite, and just smiles, but why?*

    Perhaps she must be surrounded by sycophants whispering in her ear continually and is deaf to reason – in which case she’s now rapidly running out of senses; as her backing of every failed English Tory candidate shows daily that she is out of touch. That just leaves her sight and only half at that.
    She has no insight meaning she can only have single vision – that is the crux of the matter – she “sees” a myopic and megalomaniacal vision of herself as some saviour of Scotland & the Union; hoist aloft by adoring crowds, nodding left and right, a wave of the hand and crowned Princess of Everything.

    Delusional. She is delusional isn’t she?*

    *Sentences end with question mark, hammer falls repeatedly, exit pursued by a bear…

  122. Petra says:

    Let’s show our appreciation for Paul Kavanagh, one of the most hardworking and influential of independence activists. If you can afford to please donate to his annual crowdfunder.

    WGD:- ‘Bent bananas in the ears.’

  123. Petra says:

    The latest news from Professor John Robertson. News items that you won’t hear about on the BBC / STV or read about in the Unionist controlled newspapers.

  124. TJenny says:

    OK, wwaaay O/T here – can any computer folk tell me why I have a Hewlet Packard security update dialogue box suddenly appear on my Toshiba pc screen? There seems no way to get rid of it other than click OK, which I haven’t yet. Would it be safe to click OK?

  125. Capella says:

    Is it for printer software?

  126. TJenny says:

    Capella – says it’s for my hp255g2 nottebook pc. don’t hhave one.

  127. Capella says:

    Sometimes pressing alt + F4 closes a window without clicking.

  128. Capella says:

    Sorry – Fn + F4

  129. shug says:

    what really astonishes me is the degree to which the BBC protect Ruth by not asking pertinent questions

  130. TJenny says:

    Capella – Fn + F4, brought up a project menu, but dialogue box still there. Haven’t got a printer but I did used to have an HP pc and a printer, does system maybe not know I haven’t for about 6 years?

  131. Capella says:

    If still a problem try task manager – Ctrl Alt Del.

  132. Dr Jim says:

    @ T Jenny


  133. Capella says:

    It might still have you on a database but sounds dodgy. I think it is Alt + F4. I’m on a tablet and so no keyboard to jog memory!
    I’d try the task manager and see if its listed. Failing that I’d probably just close down without clicking OK.

  134. TJenny says:

    Dr Jim – yippeee, restart removed it. A big thanks to you and Capella for your help. Everday’s a learning day on WOS. 🙂

  135. Camz says:

    Chris for national political cartoonist!

  136. Capella says:

    Great. You should probably check your programs list and uninstall any old hp software if you have it. Tomorrow!

  137. TJenny says:

    Capella – will do. (try)

    Night, night.

  138. TJenny says:

    Capella, thanks, will do.

  139. schrodingers cat says:


    UK, YouGov poll:

    Wales independence referendum

    Pro independence: 41% (+8)
    Against independence: 59% (-8)

    This excludes 29% (+2) undecided.

    Fieldwork: 10-15 May 2019
    Sample size: 1,133

  140. Dr Jim says:

    @ T Jenny

    If you’ve uninstalled the programme previously you might have bits of broken registry left over so you need to look in your programme list and uninstall again, if you can’t find it to get rid of it then you need to clean the PC

    If you don’t have a cleaner there are plenty of free ones online that’ll give you a free trial, these will remove some of what you want then you uninstall that once you’ve used it then find anothe free one and do it again otherwise you have to pay loads of dosh for the McAfees and the Nortons and to be honest they’re a lot of money for not very much protection when you can get Avast or something for free

    Hope you get sorted before you throw it out the window
    Computers eh!

  141. Breeks says:


    Shame on you America.

    “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

    What price do you put on the Statue of Liberty? For scrap metal I mean, since it seems that’s all it’s worth.

    I would remind you too America, you are a nation of uninvited immigrants.

  142. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT from the Rev.’s twitter, re. Deborah Roseman and “It is impossible to overstate how inhumane and terrifying this is. The Trump administration simply doesn’t believe migrants are people.” That’s Anglo-American neo-liberalism that is, which is the domination of financial markets over humanity. Plus some good, old-fashioned, prejudice, I’ve no doubt.

    This one isn’t for viewers in Scotland, our civil society is shaped by English Tories (see the full-English Brexit). We don’t really have a democratic say in the matter, frankly.

    Launch of final findings – Inquiry into the Future of Civil Society

    This two-year Inquiry has published its final reports into the state and future of civil society in England today.

    Where is change most needed and how do we get there?

    How can we put power in the hands of people and communities? How can we prevent an ‘us and them’ future, connect us better and humanise the way we do things?

  143. brian lucey says:

    forgive me, but have I missed a whole pile of opinion polls that suggest that there is decisive majority now pulling for Scottish independence?

  144. Effijy says:

    Laughing at Tory on BBC news trying to defend Boris the Mistress Beater.

    He is outraged that a neighbour contacted the Guardian to report the story. Why would someone do that he squeals?
    They and the Guardian are just anti-Tory and Boris.

    I think the neighbour had a few reasons for selling the story to the Guardian. First one is like the Tories money is everything and morality nothing. Secondly they may feel that the country deserves to know about the despicable character of the next English Prime Minister and thirdly who the hell would want to live next to Bojo The Clown?
    Perhaps he will relocate to the country to hide his failings.

    Many Tories claiming we have no right to ask Bojo personal questions about his personal life?
    What even if he a violent thug?

    I still laugh at the Tory Daily Hail condemning Scotland’s duly elected First Minister for having the funds to buy her own home coffee maker. Its her own purchase for her own pleasure and not a Tory Expenses fiddle but how dare she spend a couple of hundred pounds on a kitchen appliance when the money could be spent negating Westminster Austerity cuts. lol

    Pathetic 2 faced B*****ds!

  145. Ken500 says:

    Dealing with rubbish is everyone’s responsibility. Not exporting it to other countries. Banning some plastic except for medical or urgent use. Water is now being sold in cartons at the same price. Or take a reusable container. Simple. Anyone can go into a cafe and ask for a glass of water. In a reusable vessel. Often at little or no cost. Scotland has good drinking water. Unlike some countries where it has to be bought (in) or recycled. With some unhealthy effects.

  146. Ken500 says:

    Johnstone caught out again. What a disaster. Wait until all the other lies come out of the closet. The Tories are toast. Into oblivion. They could not make a bigger mess. Shameless. An international embarrassment.

  147. Breeks says:

    brian lucey says:
    23 June, 2019 at 7:42 am
    forgive me, but have I missed a whole pile of opinion polls that suggest that there is decisive majority now pulling for Scottish independence?

    Dunno Brian. Did I miss a surge in Unionists who would try to actually settle a referendum by winning it fairly, rather than just suppress Scotland’s democracy to prevent it happening?

    Didn’t think so.

    I’m with WGD on the subject. I’ll respect the 2014 result once the Unionists respect the promises they made to win it.

  148. Capella says:

    What does the First Minister do all day?
    Well here she is out campaigning for Independence and in a sing-a-long “Caledonia”:

  149. Terry callachan says:

    CameronB Brodie..your post 1016hrs 22nd

    Now that’s interesting , I had to read it twice , well most of it twice , reading it encourages self examination but that in itself is not necessarily going to lead to accurate results is it as this study shows.

  150. Cubby says:

    Brian Lucey@7.42am

    “Decisive majority”

    There you have it the raising of the bar. Not a majority but decisive. Shades of 1979. The Britnat idea of democracy:

    52/48 EU ref = the will of the people.

    52/48 Scottish ref for devolution = not the will of the people

    There is only a faux democracy in Scotland as long as the UK exists.

  151. Terry callachan says:

    To Ken500 your post of 7.55 am

    Well said , I’m amazed at just how widespread the use of bottled water has become in the younger population , one of my sons and many of the young people I know drink nothing but bottled water , imagine it ? crazy , bottles and bottles at great cost.
    When I tell them that Scotland has the cleanest healthiest tap water around they say they don’t like it because it tastes metallic .
    The plastic from these bottles is waste, let’s face it bottled water is totally unnecessary we can all buy a reusable water bottle such as one would use at the gym and just keep refilling it, hey presto huge cut in plastic bottles kicking around our streets and floating in our rivers and seas

  152. Terry callachan says:

    To effijy..your post at 7.46am..

    Do we know for sure that Boris is a mistress beater ?

    Now , I don’t like his politics , the thought of him being PM is bewilderment that such a person could be PM .
    But as I understand it a neighbour called the police who visited but made no charges.
    I believe Boris has five children .,!
    Left his wife last year and moved in with this new woman who used to work for the conservative press office.

    Let’s face it we don’t really know much about his private life apart from this kind of thing.
    We don’t know he is a mistress beater for sure , do we ?
    Maybe I’ve missed something

  153. Terry callachan says:

    Scotland’s economy growing despite the threat of brexit

  154. McBoxheid says:

    Welsh Sion says:
    22 June, 2019 at 9:16 pm

    Elsewhere in this shamocracy of the Disunited Kingdumb …

    schrodingers cat says:
    23 June, 2019 at 1:58 am

    Wales independence referendum

    This excludes 29% (+2) undecided.
    Seems to suggest the independence for Wales campaign is also gaining new adhereers because of unionist party failure and incompetence. The increase of the undecided might suggest that more are starting to think about the possibility and have dropped the automatic support of the union and are starting to think about the possibilty of an iWales.

    Automatic voting because the family always voted a particular party is slowly dying out. Possibly due to the imformation age, internet and bloggers for and against independence succeeding or failing, as appropriate, to offer alternate choices to the younger generation and opening the eyes of the older generation to the sham that is Westminster.

    A positive trend either way. England, without the other three nations, would probably not be able to wage war on all and sundry for profit as a stand alone country. We shall see sooner than later I hope.

  155. Abulhaq says:
    Rather pathetic Mr B. Has the SNP run out of ideas? Curtain twitching, old maidish ‘Holy Than Thouism’ all that’s left in the armoury? Do grow up man!

  156. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Anent Boris’s private life, referred to in posts by Effijy and Terry Callachan.

    I recall the press outrage at HRH The Duke of Rothesay’s conduct in marrying the then Mrs Parker Bowles; one media commentator wrote: “When one marries one’s mistress, it immediately creates a vacancy.”

    By moving-in with his “bit on the side,” Boris, a man once described in another newspaper article as: “A man who hasn’t required to have a wank since he left Eton,” will almost certainly already be looking for another.

    “Once a shagger – always a shagger,” another popular belief.

    He should maybe join the Lib-Dems, such conduct is more David Lloyd George than Winston Spencer Churchill.

  157. Dr Jim says:

    Sky TVs Sophy Ridge just interviewed Nicola Sturgeon
    An excellent interview with no badgering nonsense and the FM given time to answer the questions, she came across very real and rounded unlike every single one of the opposition fakes we normally see being interviewed

  158. Dan says:

    @Ken and Terry

    Re. Plastic rubbish

    The cynic in me is just waiting on it being large scale monetised by the powers that be with subsidies being paid by the people to large plastic recycling corporations marketed as “cleaning up our world” who will then profit from processing what is actually a very valuable resource.
    TBH I can’t believe it hasn’t happened already Black Mirror style…
    It’d be easier to just collect a plastic tax at source from the companies that produce the stuff in the first place with that money going towards setting up the infrastructure to efficiently process the end source waste they originally created.
    1p per item isn’t going to stop people buying a product.
    There’s 5.5 million folk in Scotland so if we conservatively say we use just one item per day that’s 55,000 raised daily towards the running costs of a processing plant, which could ultimately be self fueled as it processes the waste.

    Plastic packaging is something like 40 MJ/Kg calorific value which is pretty much the same as heating oil which as we know is expensive. Modern home oil boilers are efficeient in converting oil to heat, but they still pump out emissions without the exhaust passing through a catalyst.

    People can have a word with their butchers and fishmongers and ask if they would consider adopting more environmentally friendly packaging.
    I was chuffed to see and have a chat with my local butcher that has made the switch. Good on them for taking the initiative. Shame on others who continue to use un-recyclable packaging when alternatives are available.

  159. Ottomanboi says:

    @Terry Callachan
    Plastics leach estrogens into food which may well be carcinogenic and cause low sperm count and ‘feminization’ ie boobs in males. As to environmental consequences people just need to look around them.
    The water bottle thing is an expensive, consumerist ‘health’ fad. Virtually all tap water is safe but trace estogens are almost impossible to remove. . The bottled stuff has had periodic problems with toxins.

  160. galamcennalath says:

    A question which has arisen in interviews with Johnson is, how many children does he have?

    He never answers.

    4-5-6? Perhaps he doesn’t actually know!

  161. McBoxheid says:

    CameronB Brodie says:
    23 June, 2019 at 6:12 am

    That’s Anglo-American neo-liberalism that is, which is the domination of financial markets over humanity. Plus some good, old-fashioned, prejudice, I’ve no doubt.


    In my opinion, Anglo-American neo-liberalism is starting to fail. As people globaly become poorer and more aware of environmental concerns, that failure is quickening. Hence the emergence and advancement of the extremism of right wing politics over the last decade.
    In parts of Kwazulu Natal (KZN), tourism agencencies have started to work with the local community in a symbiotic arrangement. A local community provides labour to a lodge and gains mains electricity, tapped water and job security. Additionally, the local Zulu people are changing the way they treat their environment. Litter is being picked up instead of being dropped, environmental awareness is growing due to Ramsar status and inproved education. They know that unless more environmental protection is aspired to, then they will lose their Ramsar status.

    Eucalyptus farming is being reduced, because people are starting to realise that the largest fresh water lake in South Africa is disappearing. No lake, no Ramsar status, no tourism. The latter does not like rubbish everywhere and South Africans are starting to collect their litter. Not only in KZN.

    In my example, the Zulu people have seen that working with ecotourism agencies for profit to both themselves and the lodge provider, brings them both wealth, a cleaner, more sustainable environment and a more comfotable way of life than selling land for short term profit (to the king) for monoculture that is causing a great water loss to lake Sibaya, potentially leading to the loss of Ramsar status and a consequential collapse in tourism and therefore a loss of job security and wealth.

    Sustainable eco friendly economy will always out last environmentally damaging short term gain. The biggest pronlem is that politicians mainly look as far as the next election and to their own personal wealth. If only they would realise that long term planning and a sustainable and ecofriendly environment for all people would bring them more wealth in the long run, as the would be reelectable as everyone would gain. (Even if it just a cleaner environment.)

  162. McBoxheid says:

    Sorry about the typos. I think my post at 10:16 is still just readable though.

  163. Marcia says:

    According to twitter the Sunday Times has Yes ahead by 6% in their latest Panelbase poll.

  164. Fergus Green says:

    From the Times – MPs plan to oust Johnston after 24 hours:

    Boris Johnson has been warned that he is at high risk of being prime minister for just one day as Tory MPs launched a secret plot to stop the Queen asking him to replace Theresa May.

    The Conservative chief whip, Julian Smith, told Johnson campaign chiefs Gavin Williamson and James Wharton on Thursday that there was a high likelihood he would lose a vote of no confidence within 24 hours of taking the job.

    Smith revealed that two Tory MPs were on a “high-risk” watch list to defect from the party, destroying its majority in parliament and that a “handful” could jump ship to bring him down.

    Key aides of Johnson and Jeremy Hunt were summoned to a meeting at Conservative campaign headquarters (CCHQ) on Thursday where Smith and the party chairman, Brandon Lewis, outlined plans for May to tender her resignation to the Queen after a final appearance at prime minister’s questions on Wednesday, July 24.

    Smith explained that Labour MPs had been placed on a “hard three-line whip” for the following day, when Jeremy Corbyn is expected to table a motion of no confidence in the new government — and warned that it could easily be lost.

    Former ministers Guto Bebb and Phillip Lee are on Smith’s high-risk watch list. After the Tory MP Chris Davies was removed on Friday for expenses fraud, the Tories have a working majority of just four.

    If they lose next month’s Brecon and Radnorshire by-election, caused by Davies’s demise, that will go down to three — meaning just two MPs switching votes could bring Johnson down.

    Chief whip Julian Smith said two Tory MPs were on a ‘high-risk’ watch list to defect
    In one “doomsday” scenario, party bosses fear Bebb, who holds another Welsh seat, could defect to the Liberal Democrats in order run in the by-election against the Tories.

    Johnson is facing five plots to derail his premiership before it has even started:

    ? Tory MPs plan to write to May saying they will not vote for Johnson in a motion of no confidence, making it difficult for her to recommend that the Queen invites him to form a government because he will not be able to command a majority in the House of Commons.

    ? Dominic Grieve, the former attorney- general, yesterday confirmed that even if this does not work, a sizeable group of Tory MPs is prepared to vote with Labour to bring down the government if Johnson persists with his plan to leave the EU by October 31 come what may. He said another Tory could be summoned to the palace instead.

    ? A cross-party group of MPs is planning a second attempt to seize control of the parliamentary timetable to force a binding vote that could stop no-deal in its tracks. A previous attempt failed because the motion was proposed by the Labour front bench. “We won’t make that mistake again,” said one plotter.

    ? In an effort to press Johnson towards keeping a version of May’s Brexit deal, a group of 26 Labour MPs in leave seats, who say Brexit must happen, have held secret talks about bringing forward their own Brexit motion in order to show that Labour leavers would support leaving the EU with a deal over no-deal.

    ? Leading Brexiteer hardliners, headed by former Brexit minister Steve Baker, are warning Johnson that they are prepared to force a no-confidence vote of their own in the autumn if Johnson does not stick to his pledge to take the UK out of the EU at the end of October. “We made him and we can break him,” said one MP. “If Boris reneges on his promises, he’ll be out quicker than May was.”

    The most serious immediate threat is a no-confidence motion in the final week of July. The Sunday Times has spoken to several MPs involved in the plot who claim they are prepared to risk a Corbyn government to stop a no-deal Brexit.

    Remain-supporting MPs, including Lee, Grieve, Sam Gyimah, Richard Harrington and Antoinette Sandbach, were seen plotting in Portcullis House on Thursday afternoon.

    A former minister said: “There comes a time when you believe something will be so damaging for the country that you come to the decision that the only way forward is to lie in front of the tanks.”

    Another former minister said he would prefer to sit as an independent than continue to represent a party that has been “taken over by extremists”.

    Johnson is being urged by his allies to reach out to the rebel remainers and vow to protect them from deselection if they promise to support him in motions of no confidence in the Commons.

    This weekend, Johnson finds himself at the heart of a tug-of-love over his Brexit policy. Members of the European Research Group group of hardliners, who want a no-deal departure from the EU, are demanding that two of their number — Baker and Marcus Fysh — join the negotiating team, along with trade experts Crawford Falconer and Shanker Singham.

    However, Johnson allies say the job of chief negotiator is more likely to be taken by David Frost, a former diplomat and businessman who was Johnson’s special adviser when he was foreign secretary.

    At the same time, The Sunday Times can reveal that EU diplomats have launched a secret outreach effort to Johnson.

    A senior European diplomat last week used an intermediary to tell the Tory leadership frontrunner that EU leaders in German, France, Holland and the European Commission are prepared to do business with him.

    Both commission president Jean-Claude Juncker and Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, have signalled that they want to get Brexit finalised “on their watch” before the autumn and both are prepared to break off their summer holidays to meet him.

    While the EU remains resistant to reopening the withdrawal agreement, Johnson has been told that they could add to it, will rewrite the political declaration on a future relationship and could wrap the whole thing up in a new “umbrella” deal.

    That is unlikely to go far enough for Brexiteer hardliners whom Johnson has had to woo to help him secure the leadership.

  165. chicmac says:

    You’re dreaming Chris. There is no ebb low enough.

  166. Dr Jim says:

    Actually I think the FM didn’t answer the question of which team she’d support now that Scotland’s out, because she doesn’t care that much about football in general, she just cares about Scotland football, that’s different

    I’ll be supporting ABE as will many of us I guess
    They still don’t take that wee hint do they, how much bigger do we need to make it

  167. Robert Peffers says:

    @Terry callachan says: 22 June, 2019 at 9:49 pm:

    ” … Geeo ..really you shouldn’t post when you’re drunk
    Drink and tablets together not a good thing
    Keep taking your medicine
    Lay off the sauce
    I hope you get well soon”

    Terry, if you continue with these unsubstantiated claims that certain Wingers are drug and alcohol abusers you will be formally complained about.

    This type of abuse is unwarranted.

  168. chicmac says:

    Besides, I’ve a feeling Hunt will get it. A month’s a long enough time for a reality check, even for Tories.
    + hustings = BoJo has to say stuff.

    Hunt for Red October GE in the Spring.

  169. Fergus Green says:

    @Marcia 10.31

    The Times says ‘Boris Victory will end Union’

    Boris Johnson could be the midwife of Scottish independence, according to an exclusive Sunday Times poll that suggests a majority of Scots would vote to leave the UK if he becomes prime minister.

    The Panelbase survey of 1,024 voters, conducted last week, confirms the worst fears of close allies of Scots Tory leader Ruth Davidson — pointing to a six-point lead for the “yes” campaign if, as expected, the former London mayor succeeds Theresa May.

    Today’s poll suggests that Johnson, with a personal approval rating in Scotland of minus 37, is even less popular north of the border than Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage, who shares an approval rating of minus 24 with Johnson’s leadership rival Jeremy Hunt.

    The most popular Tory leadership candidate by far is international development secretary Rory Stewart, who was voted out last week after what was widely considered a poor performance in the TV debate with the other contenders.

    His Scottish approval rating, at minus 4 (representing the difference between those who think he does a good or bad job), is just behind Nicola Sturgeon (whose rating is neutral) and Davidson on minus 1.

    In recent days the SNP leadership has sought to exploit unease among many Scots over Johnson, with Westminster leader Ian Blackford labelling him “racist” and accusing him of being unfit to govern.

    Nationalist strategists are hopeful that a significant number of socially liberal voters in Scotland who helped secure a 55%-45% vote against independence in the 2014 referendum and have had second thoughts since the UK voted for Brexit may be tipped into their camp by his premiership.

    As things stand the poll puts support for Scottish independence at 49% (up one point since last month), and opposition at 51% (—1). But when asked how they would vote in the event of Johnson leading the UK government 53% say they would back independence, with 47% opposed.

    Last week senior Tories confirmed privately that they are anxious that Johnson could prove catastrophic for the Union, driving Scottish voters towards independence. They are also alarmed at a lack of support for the Union among grassroots Tory members in England. It comes after a YouGov poll indicated that a majority of Conservative members would be willing to consent to independence for Scotland, which voted against Brexit, if it means the rest of the UK leaving the EU.

    Speaking at a political festival yesterday Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard warned: “We need to take on the English nationalism of Boris Johnson. Because we are witnessing the abandonment of Conservatism and unionism and the rise of a new and dangerous nationalism.”

    John Curtice, professor of politics at Strathclyde University, said: “The attraction to Conservative members south of the border of electing Boris Johnson as their leader is clear.

    “Polling consistently suggests the figurehead of the ‘leave’ campaign is best placed to win back the many voters the Tories have lost to Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party in the wake of the failure to deliver Brexit.

    “But [this] poll today reveals that the calculation facing Tory members north of the border looks very different. Boris Johnson seems unlikely to bring the party much electoral dividend while he could put at risk its hopes of keeping Scotland in the Union.”

    But while SNP MPs have cheered publicly over Johnson’s success in the Tory leadership contest, some senior figures close to Sturgeon are concerned that he may yet prove less unpopular among Scots than he currently seems, particularly if he shows sensitivity in his dealings with Scotland.

    May, Hunt and Johnson have all set their faces against a second independence referendum any time soon, suggesting that the nationalists do not currently have a mandate for one.

    The jump in support for independence is likely to lead to that position being underlined but our poll indicates that the SNP and Greens may be able to force the issue at the next Holyrood election by winning an “independence majority” of three seats.

    Based on the findings, Curtice calculates that the SNP would win 61 of the Scottish parliament’s 129 seats and the Greens 5 with the Tories returning 24 MSPs, Labour 19, the Liberal Democrats 13 – and the Brexit party winning seven seats.

    In the event of a Westminster general election the SNP are poised to make large gains, winning 50 of the 59 Scottish seats (up from 35), which would also help keep independence on the agenda. The Tories would fall from 13 to three, Labour from seven to one, while the Liberals would win five seats (up one).

    Davidson can take some comfort from Panelbase’s finding that a Johnson leadership does not appear to signal a fall in support for the Scottish Tories whose ratings have already tumbled in recent weeks as the Brexit crisis continues.

  170. Cubby says:

    Reporting Scotland last night

    Three marches were reported on:

    1. An orange order march being re routed.

    2. An actual march taking place in Edinburgh yesterday for LGBT.

    3. An actual service veterans march taking place yesterday in Edinburgh.

    So Reporting Scotland do cover marches.

    However, NO mention of the Bannockburn march that took place yesterday. The place where Scotland regained its freedom. Propaganda by omission.

  171. galamcennalath says:

    Are we about to see politics in Scotland move into a totally new environment?

    Sunday Times poll say Yes 53% No 47% with Johnson as PM.

    Johnson will almost certainly become PM.

    There seems a real possibility that support for independence will go positive and stay that was as Johnson, the Tories, and WM proceed to destroy their Union.

    Everything changes when support gets positive. No longer can BritNats claim we don’t want Indy. The media may remain biased pro UK but they can’t avoid clear public opinion. Psychologically, more folks want to be seen on the winning side. The wider world (especially the EU) will take more interest. And the SG and Holyrood with their clear mandate can’t continue to prevaricate!

    Also, rather interestingly, the net approval rating for Johnson was minus 37 while that of Corbyn was worse at minus 44. Good to see that Scots are now dismissing Labour and Corbyn as an antidote for the Tories.

  172. HYUFD says:

    That Panelbase poll was conducted by Yes Scotland and including Don’t Knows Yes is still under 50% so no certainty.

    Also interesting as you say despite supposedly being less popular than Edward IInd in Scotland Boris is still more popular with Scots than Corbyn is

  173. chicmac says:

    Of course if there is no Brexit at halloween then the main GE combatants will be the Brexit party and the Fibbies.

    Joe Swinson as PM and Wullie Renege as Governer Corporal disnae bear thinkin aboot.

  174. Abulhaq says:

    @Socrates MacSporran
    Private life ought to be private, even for so called public figures. The Anglo-saxon media culture is puritanical and prurient about sex, particularly about the sex lives of others. What people get up to in their space is their business. In the public space cool circumspection ought to be normative but with self obsessed people including politicians exposing themselves, literally, on very public social media platforms the art of circumspection and discretion has gone out of fashion.
    People who expect politicians to be saints patently do not understand human nature. First stones etc.
    Johnson does not chat about his private life, a commendable and mature approach. He should be judged solely on his public politics not his personal antics. Ad hominem ‘critique’ is always a bad move.

  175. HYUFD says:

    As reported recently Boris actually wants a FTA for GB and let Northern Ireland voters decide on the backstop in a referendum rather than No Deal

  176. chicmac says:

    Erm JO Swinson apologies

  177. Dr Jim says:

    Liam Fox point blank lies on Marr

    When asked by Andrew Marr about the 63% of Tories who would rather see an English Brexit concluded to their satisfaction and to hell with Scotland, Liam Fox said..

    *I am a Unionist and the Union is not a Union of countries it’s a Union of people who move around and are better together and happier together*

    I’d be interested to see this different historical document treaty agreement of people

  178. chicmac says:

    Dr Jim

    Well they were different countries when he claimed English troops were braver than Scots. AFAIR.

  179. ronnie anderson says:

    AUOB has updated its rules concerning caterers after an ‘incident’ at Oban. It requests 20% of *takings* – not profits – from commercial caters and 10% of *takings* from non-profit outfits. Bear in mind that this is public land.

    Please Share . Auob have no rights to demand monies from any stallholders , they dont hire the park , anyone intending to attend the Ayr march dont contribute to the bucket collections .

  180. Abulhaq says:

    The alternative to Johnson is this.
    Hunt is a clockwork BritState apparatchik, imagination, insight blah blah…forget it.
    He could propel independence into the 70s….

  181. Dr Jim says:

    Michael Portillo says Boris Johnson wants rid of Northern Ireland because it’s a burden and a problem he does’nt want, so a referendum gets them out of the way and Boris can forge ahead with any kind of Brexit he wants

    Phillip Hammond has already stated quite clearly that Brexit is unaffordable without Scotlands assets

    But we already knew that didn’t we

  182. McBoxheid says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    23 June, 2019 at 10:40 am

    @Terry callachan says: 22 June, 2019 at 9:49 pm:

    ” … Geeo ..really you shouldn’t post when you’re drunk
    Drink and tablets together not a good thing
    Keep taking your medicine
    Lay off the sauce
    I hope you get well soon”

    Terry, if you continue with these unsubstantiated claims that certain Wingers are drug and alcohol abusers you will be formally complained about.

    This type of abuse is unwarranted.
    A bit hypocritical, Robert. Anyone who uses words that you diagree with gets preached at, then accused of being a troll when they defend themselves.
    It is your ilk that is preventing real discussion on this website.
    ATL, this website is very eyeopening.
    BTL, not so much. In the main, people that discuss isues you don’t agree with as branded trolls and worse. Not everyone of course. Some people prefer discussions to be multifaceted. This leads to healthy debate from which opinion is formed. Your kind of opposition to healthy debate, intentional or otherwise, is making the BTL comment a closed bubble. Everyone is encouraged to comment. You and your ilk are not moderators as far as I know. So go ahead and report if it makes you feel better. I am pretty sure the Rev Stuart does read the comments and he will hit people with hammers if they are breaking his forum rules.

  183. Effijy says:

    Terry callachan says:
    23 June, 2019 at 9:17 am
    To effijy..your post at 7.46am..

    Yes Terry with this latest Mistress having to screen to get Boris off of her,
    As heard and recorded by neighbours I’d say there is no doubt he used
    Physical restraint to try and stop her screening.

    If there was an explanation to the events that the public would swallow
    He would then be willing to present it to the many who have asked.

    A descent man would explain their actions and apologise to all for his actions
    And pledge never to let this be repeated.

    Again I’d like to compare our First Minister denying French Gate to the entire UK Media
    And they called her a liar throughout and to this day the Spectator doesn’t accept that Unionist
    Carmichael was the liar and he let £1 Million be wasted on an enquiry.

    So yes Boris uses physical force against an innocent woman in her own home!

    I have no doubt his Eaton Chums could make the neighbours disappear or tag them as Iranian Secret service insurgents.


    Scotland’s next not voted for prime minister wants Scots put in a ghetto and eliminated
    Insults Muslims and Blacks of Africa’s Decent.
    A man who states he would always invest in England over Scotland.

    Yes I’m guilty of doing my utmost to stop this clown from ruling over Scotland

  184. Cubby says:

    Police numbers.

    Scotland – 32 officers per 10k population.

    England and Wales – 21 officers per 10k population.

  185. Dr Jim says:

    @chicmac 11:02am

    What kind of person says a thing like that about servicemen of any country in a war

    Liam Fox is an appalling excuse for a human being

  186. Abulhaq says:

    @Dr Jim
    “Better together and happier together”…..positively Orwellian slogan from the Doc.

  187. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Re BoJo:

  188. Petra says:

    Oh FGS first up on Brewers is Ross Groper Thomson supporting Nutter Johnston. Did anyone ever hear if an investigation was carried out in relation to his, Thomson’s, behaviour at the Commons booze up and if so what was the outcome? He says that, “Boris would be the SNP’s worse nightmare and that Boris is going to set up a “Union Unit” in London to strengthen the Union.

  189. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dan says:22 June, 2019 at 10:34 pm:

    ” … Technically the right to roam is now covered in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code.
    It’s not carte blanche to do as you want though, as there are responsibilities to adhere to when accessing the land.”

    It never ever was carte blanche, Dan. There was no English style trespass law in Scotland but there always was laws to protect the privacy of residents in the close vicinity of dwellings and the right to claim damages from people on, “private”, property if they caused damage.

    ” … Most folk are responsible but we still get the odd group of arseholes that dump their rubbish along the trails.”.

    I can remember reports in the media of such things as a piano and a model T ford car among a long list of other junk having to be removed from the peak of Ben Nevis. If memory serves that was back in the 1950s.

    The original Right to Roam laws implied that both owners and those who roamed respected each other. The new laws only emphasised that respect. BTW: there are exceptions to the Trespass laws but these were mainly for the safety of those who would roam in dangerous places such as Railway lines, MOD property, (such as bombing ranges), and I believe also motorways.

    It was always an offence to intrude close to dwellings unless invited or, in the absence of a notice (like, “No Hawkers”, or, “No cold callers”, to go by marked paths to main entrance in order to contact the legal occupier(s).

    Furthermore certain providers of services, such as water, sewerage, telephones, gas and electricity could,(can), go into close proximity to dwellings.

    However, even the police are restricted in doing so unless they have firm evidence of criminal activity actually taking place on the premises or when in actual pursuit of a criminal. Police can only gain access to a dwelling by invite or with a properly issued search warrant.

    And in case anyone wonders – that also applies to BBC Licensing, “investigators”, who have no legal right to be even close to private dwellings without a warrant than any other member of the public.

  190. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    As I understand it, mobile caterers are licenced by a local council (for which they probably pay a licence fee), to operate on a public land within the council’s remit.

    This seems to be a can of worms opening up. Note below, “AUOB charges a levy of 20% of takings”.

    It seems to read that AUOB are adopting a position above the local council who, presumably, are happy with the hygiene regime of mobile caterers or else they wouldn’t licence them.

    From AUOB’s Facebook page:-

    “All Under One Banner
    Yesterday at 08:54


    All Caterers who wish to be considered for permission to do Catering at Ayr on 6th July must make direct contact with us by Friday 28th June.

    Please email your application to-

    Please attach scanned copies of all of your relevant certificates and outline the nature of your catering outlet.

    AUOB charges a levy of 20% of takings for commercial caterers and 10% of takings for not-for-profit organisation caterers, made payable to AUOB on the 6th July after making evident a note of your takings.

    Funds we receive from catering is one of 4 revenue streams for AUOB which is itself a not-for-profit voluntary run community led organisation, and as such all proceeds help to fund this year’s 8 massive marches & rallies across Scotland and beyond.

    As Organisers we value the health and hygiene of every single participant who attends AUOB demos and so should any caterers not fully comply with our application process and operational terms then we retain the right, in the interests of public safety, to stop any such rogue caterers setting up and serving potentially lethal food to the public, and to this effect we would liase with local authorities and Police Scotland to ensure any such rogue caterers are not allowed to operate on the event days.

    As event organisers our level of duty of care towards all participants must come first and this is why we are outlining this.

    We hope everyone has a great weekend in sunny ? Scotland and is gearing up towards our next massive Demonstration at #AUOBAyr in only 2 weeks time.”

    This is from Lindsay Bruce’s (AyeMail) Twitter.

    “Lindsay Bruce
    They have no legal authority to do this. It’s public land. This is just the latest draconian edict from AUOB regarding stallholders. It’s why ayeMail doesn’t do their marches any more.”

    This is from Jason Michael McCann’s Twitter:-

    “Jason Michael
    AUOB has updated its rules concerning caterers after an ‘incident’ at Oban. It requests 20% of *takings* – not profits – from commercial caters and 10% of *takings* from non-profit outfits. Bear in mind that this is public land.

    Jason Michael
    11 hours ago
    Just in case any ‘rogue traders’ – those who refuse to cough up their share of their takings – don’t comply, there is a wee threat included. I will be speaking to Ayr Council through the week to clear a few things up.”

    Friends of Wings Over Scotland will have a stall at Ayr but it will probably be the last one.

  191. Marcia says:

    The Panelbase poll is an exclusive Sunday Times poll and not a Yes Scotland poll as claimed by one of our resident cynics.

  192. Scott says:

    Brewers show,has anyone else noticed that the Lib Margaret Smith always seem to be on his show Wen and Sun is she being grounded to take over.

  193. Dawn in NL says:

    This article by Fintan o’Toole is quite long, but worth reading. Having lived in the Rep of Ireland (before the property bubble) I recognise his point about having to take responsibility for ourselves after independence. “National freedom isn’t another word for nothing left to lose. It is another word for no one left to blame – that is, except yourself. If you make your own choices, you become responsible for their consequences.”

  194. Dr Jim says:

    Jeremy Hunt say there’d be chaos in the UK if Scotland became Independent

    Chaos in England yes, but the party fun in Scotland would defo be chaotic

    That’s better!

  195. Cubby says:


    You are championing healthy debate in your post. I fail to see how Callachans comments can be classified as such. In the spirit of healthy debate care to enlighten me.

  196. Scott says:

    I see that Hunt is coming to Scotland just to see his faithful and will get an easy ride from the MSM I bet no one will ash him about this.
    Jeremy Hunt refuses Foreign Office support for Nicola Sturgeon Brussels visit ‘to talk up independence’
    Or this.

    Jamal Khashoggi killing: Saudi crown prince ‘should face investigation’
    There is credible evidence that Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and other high-level officials are individually liable for the killing of Jamal Khashoggi, a UN expert says.

  197. Abulhaq says:

    Johnson’s musings on the Union. Essentially England would be cut down to size.
    I don’t believe he is a genuine unionist at heart. Maybe the reason Davidson keeps her distance.
    The better together mantra is sentimental not logical. It recalls nostalgic ‘past glories’ not present realties.

  198. Petra says:

    @ Dr Jim at 11:06am …”Hammond / Scotland’s assets.”

    Interesting Dr Jim. Do you have a link for that?


    Brewer’s Sunday Politics:-

    OO Clegg, Daily Rag political editor, actually admitting that Johnston as PM would push up support for Independence. Looked as though he knows it’s coming (yet for a’ that). Also came out with a fairly complimentary comment about Nicola Sturgeon. No “SNP Baad” guff for a change.

    Margaret Smith, former Libdem MSP, in making comparison with (vile) Johnston stated that she trusts Nicola Sturgeon, such as when visiting Brussels / the UN, and knows that “she’ll not let Scotland down.” Wee Wullie will be beiling this morning, just as Brewer surely was.

  199. McBoxheid says:

    Cubby says:
    23 June, 2019 at 11:35 am


    You are championing healthy debate in your post. I fail to see how Callachans comments can be classified as such. In the spirit of healthy debate care to enlighten me.
    Callachan’s comments can not be classified as such I was pointing out Robert’s hypocricy.

  200. Petra says:

    @ Brian at 11:03 ….”AUOB.”

    Amazing to see that Mr Singh, who sticks up two fingers at Police Scotland when trying to control him to safeguard the public, will look to them for support in controlling the caterers. The latter being dealt with by the Council, surely?

    They’ve to fork out 20% of their takings!!!!! And what if that is less than the profit made? Daylight bl**dy robbery. “Robbery” being the key word. Time for them to afford the public access to their accounts. In saying that there’s no paper trail when you’re also using buckets to collect money. They should have stuck to crowdfunding and publicised, in detail, what they’ve made and what they’ve spent. Keep it simple and above board.

  201. kapelmeister says:

    The Tories will be moving ahead after brexit with their dismantling of devolution. Their plans are in place. Jeremy Hunt agrees with that every bit as much as Boris Johnson.

    Hunt can no more save the union than Johnson can.

  202. galamcennalath says:

    kapelmeister says:

    Hunt can no more save the union than Johnson can.

    Indeed. Both men, their politics, their party, and their undemocratic parliament, are catalysts driving the cause of Scottish independence. They aren’t a solution, they are the problem.

    All the BritNats won in 2014 was a delay – that became obvious within months. The question moved from ‘IF’, to ‘WHEN’.

    At some point soon Scottish public opinion will move to pro Indy, with help in no little part by the Tories themselves. Tories clearly fantasise about many things, throwing more petrol onto a fire to put it out is one of them.

  203. admiral says:

    Petra says:
    23 June, 2019 at 11:15 am
    Boris is going to set up a “Union Unit” in London to strengthen the Union.

    I believe they had one of these before. It was called the Colonial Office.

  204. Breeks says:

    Rather than going for your guns, (and conscious I’m perhaps rushing in where angels fear to tread), isn’t this 20% levy on caterers at AUOB marches described as an income stream for AUOB?

    If people don’t like the levy, and who could blame them, isn’t it a more constructive idea to discuss an alternative funding strategy which covers costs but doesn’t step on peoples’ toes?

    I’m thinking crowd funding… Many hands makes YES work.

  205. Cubby says:


    I agree with you that Callachan ‘s comments cannot be classified as healthy debate. How would you describe/classify them? Do you find them acceptable?

    You say Peffers is being a bit hypocritical. I don’t think I have ever seen him post using the type of language used by Callachan. Like many I have had Peffers saying a post of mine is tosh, balderdash etc etc etc. Didn’t offend me at all – part of healthy debate.

    I personally have never reported anyone for them to be removed as I believe in free speech. But that is Peffers right to do so as he is following the site rules.

    Peffers has been of immense service in providing info to readers. Callachan on the other hand parades his bigotry, refuses to answer questions when challenged and then spouts offensive comments. I know which party IMO is more worthy of criticism and it ain’t Peffers.

  206. galamcennalath says:

    The Tories have ignored everything Scotland’s duly elected representatives have said, proposed, or requested. Completely blanked out the will of folks here. Sidelined at every occasion. Hunt even stopped the FO giving The FM assistance when visiting the EU – a FO we help pay for!

    And yet they say they want to maintain their union!

    There is only one conclusion – it’s only ScotLAND they want, and they don’t give a rat’s arse about the Scots themselves.

  207. Jack Murphy says:

    Dr Jim said at 9:51 am:

    ” Sky TVs Sophy Ridge just interviewed Nicola Sturgeon

    An excellent interview with no badgering nonsense and the FM given time to answer the questions, she came across very real and rounded unlike every single one of the opposition fakes we normally see being interviewed ”

    Here it is, uploaded on YouTube:

  208. ronnie anderson says:

    Petra AUOB have never published Tax Returns in the last 4 years there is more to them than meets the eye . Bruno Cellini put up a crowdfunder as week before Galasheilds for a van repair £ 3.100 , the van was sitting at Galasheilds . Their scaming the Yes movement they have £ 22K from previous crowdfunders .

    Dont give them a penny Wingers I will put up the Wings Stall at Ayr & they wont be getting a penny from that venture

  209. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Petra at 11.51

    As I have been saying for some time the Record is on the turn. It might be a purely commercial move as about half their readership are now yessers. Sister paper Sunday Mail gives full page to Nicola today (and good cover on other pages). Virtually no cover for Labour in either paper anytime.

    Sign of the times.

    Must read article by Fintan O’Toole in today’s Sunday National (Seven Days section).

  210. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Interesting comment from James O’Brien on the recent poll of Conservative members.

  211. Petra says:

    @ Abulhaq says at 11:41am …. “Essentially England would be cut down to size.”…

    Aye in more ways than one Abulhaq, especially when Trident gets returned to sender. England, sad to say, will become a poor little nonenity breeding and fostering racism and of course social unrest. Divided forevermore. I was just reading that of the ten key right wing Nazi-type activists in the World five of them are British. English? The legacy of propaganda that has promoted their despicable Empire and so-called “past glories” has just led to their current false sense of entitlement and superiority: And of course for blaming “others” and the EU for the absolute, overall, mess that England is experiencing in relation to everything that their politicians touch on.

    Johnston, to my mind, doesn’t give a toss for the Union either, his party or the country in general. It’s all about finding himself in a position to receive as much attention as possible (for being a good or bad boy). Get his massive ego massaged. Davidson doesn’t like him because he shows up the Tories for the charlatans that they truly are but in the main, like her, try to hide from the public.

    And then there’s Brexit. A majority in England voted for it to regain, they said, their sovereignty, ability to control immigration and form trade deals. What we see now is that their sovereignty is going to be controlled by right wing nutters such as Johnston and Farage, immigration is rising with immigrants coming in from, for example, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh to compensate for kicking out EU Nationals and they basically have nought to export, in particular when they lose our oil, as per Jim Rodgers. Most of this delusion that they suffer from, including the myth that the Scots are subsidy junkies, has been brought about by MSM propaganda which is now going to backfire on them …. big time …. and not before time, imo.

  212. Robert Peffers says:

    @chicmac says: 23 June, 2019 at 11:02 am:

    ” … Well they were different countries when he claimed English troops were braver than Scots. AFAIR.”

    Far as I recall, chicmac, the last time I looked the union was still titled, “The United Kingdom”, and the United Kingdom resulted from an international treaty between two independent kingdoms.

    Has someone changed that in the last two seconds?

  213. Joe says:

    Just taking a break and seeing a lot of nonsense on social media. Not much new on here either. I will make 2 points:

    – Anybody that thinks the worst thing about Boris Johnson is his lack of solid positioning, lies, incompetence, lack of finesse, bigotry etc need to expand their horizons on their sources of information because there’s worse hidden in there.

    – The left/democrats using dead kids as a political weapon on the border issues in the U.S are quite possibly the most repulsive, politically conniving and vomit-inducing hypocrites I have yet come across in the cesspool that is social media. If any of you find yourself getting all teary about it consider this: 30% +/- of kids crossing with ‘parents’ are discovered not to be related to the adults they are crossing with. Let the potentialities of that sink in and then ask yourself what is the only option to cut human trafficking in this way? A period of detention to sort out details. Full stop. Are we seeing names and faces of kids who have died under the drug smugglers, pedophile rings and other criminal organisations while crossing the border? Does anybody care if its not politically expedient at this moment in time?

    The same with people dying in the Mediterranean on old boats – its not them to blame. Its not the people who argue for upholding immigration laws either (me). Its the people who have destabilised their countries (big capital) and the do-gooders/NGO’s who encourage them to make the trip. Yes, ive been to borders and seen whats in leaflets NGO’s give potential illegal immigrants. Its criminal lies.

    Its like living in a parallel dimension where people have squeezed their brains out along with their morning dump and the only thing that counts is having a 3 year olds perception of ‘good intentions’ and fluffy wishes for the future. Ive heard beauty pageant contestants have more realistic and clear goals on curing the worlds ills than the shite im seeing being posted with the ‘utmost emotion’. The use of 3 tearful emoticons is so indicative of deep heart wrenching feeling.
    Oh well, a few sips of their sugarfee, fair-trade, whipped, fluffed, creamy, double skinny latte will get them back into mental shape for finding the next thing to show their social media mates on how woke they are.

  214. Capella says:

    Hi Dawn in NL 11:26 am – nice to see a new face posting. Welcome to WoS comments. Fintan O’Toole always has something insightful to say. I’m glad to see The National has him on board.
    Archive version :

  215. Abulhaq says:

    @Jack Murphy
    Sturgeon is not saying anything new. Still banging on about ‘progressives’ banding together to keep the Tories out, essentially a UK Westminster concern. In the Scottish context of doubtful benefit.
    Her opinion on the burqah, not a requirement in Islamic ‘dress code’ and banned or discouraged in some Islamic states ie Morocco as a security risk, is rather mealy mouthed.
    Burqah wearing has actually been satyrized in sections of the Arabic press in terms similar to that of the mail box.

  216. Abulhaq says:

    The prob for Tories with Johnson is that he is a wild card, predictably unpredictable and too wayward for many Tory tastes who’d find Hunt safer hands.
    Either way an interesting development to be relished and exploited to the full.

  217. Ken500 says:

    It cost a fortune to hold marches and rallies and fees etc. £Thousands. It would be difficult to compile records of accounts of all Marches and Rallies as people give time and monies voluntarily. The funds raised would not even cover that. People’s free time and varied funding arrangement.

    The Councils take £Thousands of Funds in permits, insurance, steward requirements etc. Trying to put obstacles in the way.

    One of the first Edinburgh Yes Marches Rallies in Edinburgh 2013? All organised and advertised, with people coming from far and wide.With hotels, transport booked etc. It nearly had to be cancelled. At the last minute the Council started to demand £Thousands for insurance fees. Somebody in the know managed to get an entertainment licence for £10. Otherwise the March would have had to be cancelled with all the ensuring disappointment and expense for many people. A blott on the YES movement.

    Always support the YES Rallies with funding and help if people can manage and are able.

  218. Ken500 says:

    Stop going on about people’s National dress. It is their choice to keep off the sun in excessive climates.

  219. Ken500 says:

    The English population, of those who vote, voted almost 50/50. There are many remain supporters, some of whom did not vote. Electorate 45million. A just over a third (1/3) voted Brexit. Not an overall majority. Remain support is increasing.

  220. Ken500 says:

    Morocco is secular

  221. Ken500 says:

    All caterers pay a fee for a stance, everywhere, to cover expenses. Either to the organisers (to pay the council authorities). Or to the Council direct. Depends on the permit and H&S regulations etc. It is the Council/local authorities covering expenses. For clean up and route administration/changes etc. It take weeks/months of organisation to support a Rally/March depending on size and scale.

  222. Terence callachan says:

    To effijy…your post at 1110am about Boris

    You could be correct but the police were called
    They did not take any action against Boris
    Neighbours saying they heard things and taped things , sorry but that would not be ignored by the police who would have talked to the neighbours as well as Boris and his partner.

    I think we can conclude that the partner said there was not a problem
    Perhaps she was too frightened to say there was a problem

    The thing is we don’t know the facts of what happened
    Most of what has been printed is assumption

    I’m not saying Boris didn’t do anything wrong but keeping things in perspective is helpful

    I don’t like the man at all for all the other reasons you have mentioned but that doesn’t mean I will accuse him of things he is not guilty of

  223. Capella says:

    Clip of Steve Bannon speaking to Front Nationale supporters about their plans to take over the world. Now advising Boris Johnston:

  224. Ken500 says:

    It is 20% a (1/5) on profits. Same as corporation tax after expenses. No profits no payment. A small amount after expenses. Minimal. Hardly anything.

  225. Ken500 says:

    Brewer struggles to get anyone to come on ‘his’ show. It is of such low standard. No one watches it. No viewers. No programme.

  226. Cubby says:

    Sunday Politics Scotland

    The usual Britnat chat show at the end of the programme. Brewer, Clegg and former Lib Dem MSP Margaret Smith. Well knock me over with a feather. They were very positive about Sturgeon and independence on its way. They seem to be accepting independence as inevitable.

    Things are changing when Clegg looks like he has had enough and is giving up.

    The penny is finally dropping for a lot of people in Scotland – the union is not important for most people down south. In addition a growing number resent Scots as they see Scots as subsidy junkies spending English tax revenues.

    Independence is coming to a place near you soon.

  227. Ken500 says:

    £22,000 for eight Marches/Rallies is cheap. Average cost spent £2.500+ Many would cost much more than that to fund. When all expenses are added in and added up. Many people are giving their time and money voluntarily at no cost. Otherwise the Marches/Rallies could not be held. Bands, Speakers, Organisation, stewarding, fees, transport etc.

  228. Robert Peffers says:

    @McBoxheid says: 23 June, 2019 at 11:08 am:

    ” … A bit hypocritical, Robert. Anyone who uses words that you diagree with gets preached at, then accused of being a troll when they defend themselves.”

    I’ll be generous and just say you seem to be rather mixed up, McBoxheid.

    I have never since I began posting to Wings ever accused anyone of being a Troll.

    ” … It is your ilk that is preventing real discussion on this website.”

    That too is claptrap. How can holding and stating a different point of view from someone else be preventing, “real discussion”? If everyone agreed with each other there would be no, “discussion”.

    ” … ATL, this website is very eyeopening.
    BTL, not so much. In the main, people that discuss isues you don’t agree with as branded trolls and worse.”

    o.k Can you quote even a single instance where I accused anyone of being a troll, McBoxheid?

    You will be unable to do so because I have never done so. I have, and will continue to do so, accuse those who so of being anti- FM, SG or SNP and I will not just accuse I will indicate how they do so and will accuse them, and rightly so, of acting against the best interests of the independence movement.

    Furthermore, not even once have I said people should not hold different views from the FM/SG/SNP, heaven knows I have frequently done so. What I have done, and will continue to do so, is tell these people, who are harming the independence movement, to take their complaints directly to those they disagree with.

    If they are SNP members that place is their local branch where they can argue to their heart’s content about whatever it is the disagree with – that is what branches are for. What’s more their point of view may stand a chance of making a difference. It won’t do so here on Wings where it will only benefit the unionist cause.

    If they are not SNP members there are SNP, Holyrood and Westminster websites that will pass emails onto the person you disagree with and again will perhaps influence the person concerned. Then the Holyrood Parliament has ways to communicate directly with any and all MSP as does the European Parliament.

    It is only common sense that complaining to the person you disagree with is going to have an effect. This could have more than one effect – it could get the complainant to understand the other persons POV or could influence the other person’s POV.

    Just what do you expect dripping your differences of opinion on Wings will do? I’ll tell you a couple of things it will most certainly do. It will encourage unionists – where the hell else do you think all those stories in the SMSM and broadcasters about SNP civil war come from?

    The other certain effect will be to encourage ever more unionist activists both openly unionist, and false-flaggers who claim to be independence supporters ever ready to encourage dissent among indy supporters.

    ” … Not everyone of course. Some people prefer discussions to be multifaceted. This leads to healthy debate from which opinion is formed. Your kind of opposition to healthy debate, intentional or otherwise, is making the BTL comment a closed bubble.”

    Absolute piffle. How can disagreeing with someone who disagrees with you be discouraging disagreement and debate?

    ” … Everyone is encouraged to comment. You and your ilk are not moderators as far as I know.”

    Are you for real? You cannot quote a single instance where I have called anyone a Troll. You cannot quote a single instance of where I have said no one should disagree with the FM/SG/SNP.

    Yet what you are defending here, right now, is that I’m wrong in telling someone they are overstepping the mark of decency by consistently and frequently accusing another poster of being under the influence of both drugs and alcohol.

    I’m not telling anyone not to comment, I’m only warning someone that their attacks upon another commenter grossly exceed basic decency. These accusations of being under the influence of drugs and alcohol are very personal attacks and have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any topic under debate.

    ” … So go ahead and report if it makes you feel better. I am pretty sure the Rev Stuart does read the comments and he will hit people with hammers if they are breaking his forum rules.”

    It isn’t to do with making me feel better, and it is laughable that you say Stu reads all the comments and if he did and found mine to be objectionable he would take action but not take action about this stream of accusations of someone commenting under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Are you aware of what your comment here amounts to?

    Here you are objecting to my comments and accusing me of several things you imagine I have done but which I never have done. I don’t call people trolls, I don’t tell people not to comment, I don’t tell anyone not to disagree with the FM/SG or SNP and I don’t attempt to moderate anyone’s comments. Then you complain I stop people disagreeing because I disagree with them. How illogical is that?

    Now I’m not even telling you not to comment, nor to disagree with anything I have said, or will say. By all means let rip if you feel like it – that’s debate or argument even.

    Thing is, keep it within the bounds of common decency and not like telling someone they are drunk & drugged. Now get it right I was warning someone that they were going over the score.

    Hell insults are one thing but those comments were well below the belt and I’d guess I am not alone in finding them to be so.

  229. Iain mhor says:

    Re: Scottish tap water.
    Indeed it is of high quality, nontheless most tap water requires treatment – effectively disinfecting.
    Previously chlorine treatment was used. The “chlorinated water” can most certainly be tasted and wasn’t particularly pleasant straight from the tap. However, the simple expedient of leaving open bottles (or other receptacles) overnight allowed for evaporation of the ‘unpleasant chlorines’ – the resulting water was exceptionally good with no “taste”, on a par with any bottled water. I used to do this frequently.

    However, Scottish Water is moving to a new process of “Chloramination” (chlorine and ammonia) this new process is an improvement on the old Chlorination. However it has a drawback – The new compound does not allow chlorine to evaporate in the same way, which means the ‘chlorine taste’ can remain in the tap water for some time.
    I have noticed it does take significantly longer to evaporate and still leaves a trace taste; for that reason tap water is unlikely to taste quite as neutral as bottled water.

    My reasons for drinking bottled water, when I do, are various: I don’t like sweet fizzy drinks, I’m not near a source of tap water. I may be near a source of tap water but don’t have a receptacle for it. I might distrust the tap water not per-se, but the hardware and/or establishment providing it.

    Generally I try and solve this eco conundrum by carrying a litre of my own as often as I can – “Hydrate or die” as the old maxim runs – but that’s not always possible, in which case I must resort to ‘bottled water’. I’d rather see it in cardboard or glass though, or much like the German Pfand system with a deposit/return – I believe the Scottish government is looking at introducing such a system.

    From experience abroad, I jest that Scotland’s streets and hedgerows would be cleaned of discarded plastic bottles overnight – there’s fair bit of dosh in them. I once carried a couple of bottles to France and back to Germany because no way was I chucking 50 cents in a bin!

  230. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ken500 at 3:03 pm.

    You typed,
    “It is 20% a (1/5) on profits. Same as corporation tax after expenses. No profits no payment. A small amount after expenses. Minimal. Hardly anything.”

    I don’t believe you read and understood the AUOB statement correctly. It says,
    “AUOB charges a levy of 20% of takings”, not PROFITS.

  231. Ken500 says:

    Plastic. There are already changes. It is possible to buy cartons (paper) of water at the same price or cheaper than plastic bottles. Recyclable? People can go in any cafe outlet and get a vessel of water in a cup (china ) cup for nought or a small sum. Tap water. Or use a reusable container. There are plenty available at low cost. Even a jar with a lid. Depending on glass considerations.

  232. Ken500 says:

    Taking levy includes taking off expenses. Any takings take account of taking off expenses. It would be minimal. The taking is a term for profit. Minimal depending on trade. It goes to the Council/authorities directly or indirectly. There is nothing unusual of caterers paying a fee or contribution. Some of them make heaps of money from the event/stance. Vast queues at big rallies. People often go outside the event for refreshments, at regular established premises. Especially at big events because of the queues. The ice cream and burger queues are massive. Caterers making loads of money. They should make a contribution. It is a normal activity.

  233. Ken500 says:

    Bottled water includes the same as tap water. That has been established scientifically. Just relabelled for the gullible.

  234. Iain mhor says:

    Re AUOB

    I may be wrong but I thought the “levy” was specifically for ‘Caterers’ and not all stall holders and specifically for those catering to AUOB and not general street catering stalls covered under general council application/licence for street vendors.
    Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I gleaned at a quick perusal of statements online. I don’t have an iasue with any agreement AUOB had with their own caterers, that’s entirely up to them. However, if it’s an attempt to skim independent vendors who hold a council licence, or similarly to other street traders with no direct agreement with AUOB – that’s another issue.

  235. Confused says:

    great writers say devastating things in short spaces – alasdair gray is one, then irvine welsh – his long “renton rant” – “its shite being scottish” is a deception, and an unforgivable crime for which he will never be let off – the punchline is at the end (he calls the english out), we are :


    just read a long article by simon kuper in the FT weekend magazine – it’s all about johnson, gove, hunt – the whole damn lot of them during their oxford days (kuper had also been a student there at the time) – there’s a few good tidbits in it, but I provide a precis for you

    (after carlin) : “it’s a club and you aint in it”
    (after welsh) : (they are just a bunch of) “WANKERS”


    – and now a poll comes out that gives YES 53-47 if boris is PM
    – and then we had a +5% gain for YES -IF- a hard brexit in other polling … hmmm

    to me, it looks like BORIS AND A HARD BREXIT, because he’s just a thick toff (- a lot of them get “firsts”, but no one ever does maths, physics, science etc – stuff you cannot bullshit) – who doesn’t do practical stuff – bluffing your way thru a debate, an essay, a tutorial, a few glib jokes – doesn’t cut it in the real world

    circumstances seem to be conspiring to make our victory inevitable – if the real lead is something like 62-38, then the other guys are in trouble, because THERE’S NOT ENOUGH POSTAL VOTES TO FLIP … oy vey !

    – which means the only thing they have in their bag is :

    REFUSE TO “ALLOW” INDYREF2 or delegitimise it in some way (dirty tricks)

    this is the issue which must be forced in the real world, fascinating though they are these internal debates about the sovereignty of the scottish people …

    deal or no deal, on one hand
    – THE BIGGEST LOTTERY WIN OF ALL TIME, trillions of real wealth to be disposed at our will
    – we can go to the pride parade, then the gay disco and argue about terfs, trannies, lesbos. while the wankers club enjoy our money

    (- where are my high heels?!)

  236. Ken500 says:

    Or just understate taking. Simple.

  237. Ken500 says:

    There will never be Brexit. There will be a GE. The Tories will be out. There majority is now likely to be down to single figures with possible defectors. Just ignore them for sanity. They will be gone soon. They could not make a bigger mess. Shambles.

    Independence support going up. A winnable Indy/Ref 2020. Everything to look forward to. Many gains. Demographics shifting.

  238. galamcennalath says:

    ” Sturgeon recalled last week that after a recent second world war commemoration event, Johnson told her: “So Nicola, full fiscal autonomy. Does that buy you guys off?””

    I hope Nicola told him where to shove it!

    Wouldn’t surprise me if Johnson’s ploy for Scotland is Vow2 complete with the deceit and broken promise of Vow1!

  239. naina tal says:

    Iain Mhor at 3:22
    Agree entirely re chloramine. As a professional brewer, I filter all water that I use. Then I have to add back the trace elements the filter removes.
    After having a wee taste of the filtered water, the tap water tastes horrible! So I understand why some people would rather drink bottled water. Answer is probably to get a water filter and refill the bottles.
    The beer tastes fine though!

  240. CameronB Brodie says:

    Most of the literature I’ve looked at suggests that neo-liberalism is a zombie ideology with no future. It encourages social polarisation and delivers little community benefit.

    Human rights and environmental quality are intrinsically linked, with strong, internal, structural bonds. Undermine human rights and the environment suffers. Destroy the environment and the potential for global rights is diminished.

    Anglo-American neo-liberalism is intensely illiberal and environmentally destructive, replacing human values and the potential for emotional reason, with financial value and the ‘logic’ of the market. Eco-tourism is a worthwhile response to neo-liberalism but it is also a neo-liberal responce, to an extent.

    In a neo-liberal world, policies are considered worthwhile if they are financially self-sustaining. As such, a neo-liberal political economy structures policy development that is not necessarily the best solution to real-world problems (see austerity).

    Neoliberalism and the End
    of Liberal Democracy

    Economic Liberalism, Political Liberalism,
    and What Is the Neo in Neoliberalism

    In ordinary parlance, neoliberalism refers to the repudiation of Keynesian welfare state economics and the ascendance of the Chicago School of political economy – von Hayek, Friedman, and others. In popular usage, neoliberalism is equated with a radically free market: maximized competition and free trade achieved through economic deregulation, elimination of tariffs, and a range of monetary and social policies favorable to business and indifferent toward poverty, social deracination, cultural decimation, long-term resource depletion, and environmental destruction.

    Neoliberalism is most often invoked in relation to the Third World, referring either to NAFTA-like schemes that increase the vulnerability of poor nations to the vicissitudes of globalization or to International Monetary Fund and World Bank policies that, through financing packages attached to “restructuring” requirements, yank the chains of every aspect of Third World existence, including political institutions and social formations. For progressives, neoliberalism is thus a pejorative not only because it conjures economic policies that sustain or deepen local poverty and the subordination of peripheral to core nations, but also because it is compatible with, and sometimes even productive of, authoritarian, despotic, paramilitaristic, and corrupt state forms as well as agents within civil society….

  241. call me dave says:

    Speaking in Peterhead, Jeremy Hunt told local Conservatives that he would fight to preserve the United Kingdom.

  242. galamcennalath says:

    Jeremy Hunt won’t have a vote in IndyRef2. So is he saying he will oppose Scottish independence by only undemocratic means?

  243. geeo says:

    Ian Mhor@3.22pm

    My generation already did the whole recycling of glass bottles.

    Cash back Barrs Bottles ensured parks, hedges etc were cleared regularly, there were even well kent ‘hot spots’ where a lot of empties could be found.

    Into a crate (50p back for that) and along the road straight to Barrs factory for a free couple of bottles of juice, then back to the collections.

    Ironically, our parents recycled as well, when doing the shopping, there were masses of boxes behind the checkouts to pack shopping in.

    When returning to shop, the boxes were returned flatpacked, and someone used to ‘rebuild’ them to stick behind the tills.

    A bag was never even considered for most folk.

    So arguably, supermarkets drive to recycle themselves, has actually driven the use of plastic bags as customers lost access to boxes.

  244. Robert Peffers says:

    @McBoxheid says: 23 June, 2019 at 12:07 pm:

    ” … Callachan’s comments can not be classified as such I was pointing out Robert’s hypocricy.”

    On that accusation of hypocrisy, McBoxheid. I have answered you at length in a reply directly to you. I look forward to your retort to that post. Failing your reply apologising for the lies you told, can I assume you now realise just why the hypocrisy is coming from and it sure as hell isn’t me.

  245. Effijy says:

    Terrance Calachan
    To effijy…your post at 1110am about Boris

    Sorry Terrance I say again the Mistress Screamed with enough
    Distress and emotion to concern everyone in the building.

    WhenI screaming get off and get out of my house it means he is holding her
    Against her will and he never left as ordered.

    Now you think that the police would cover up to again favours
    From the next president me minister and possibly from MI5 your
    Head buttons up the back.

    You do know that Thatcher was informed by her police body guard
    On his suspicions of young boys and Tory Politicians meeting at private
    Parties and that she was told about Cyril Smith’s meetings with young boys
    Before she put him forward for a Knighthood.

    Key thing here is how the police are completely controlled by the government.
    Miners Strike Please police cover up, Hillsbourgh police cover up,
    Dunblane Police Cover up, the Rev being set up by the Police and I have no doubt
    About Alex Salmond being set up by the police.

    You may remember a Tory Controlled lady originally from DUP controlled Ulster
    See about illegally changing the laws to go after Alex Salmond.
    Thanks to Alex and our crowd funding she and the Tories didn’t get away with it,
    But did the Police take action against her, No, did she lose her job, No, was she
    Reprimanded or demoted, No.

    Don’t suggest to me we can rely on the Police, the Westminster Government , or the
    Courts to operate with truth and integrity when their promotions depend on England
    Keeping Scotland’s resources for themselves.

    Saville and Smith were never convicted of anything.
    Neither will Boris but don’t tell me they are all innocent.

  246. ronnie anderson says:

    Ken 500 3.13 Many people give there time & money to these Auob marches but many make £s from expense’s such as Manny Singh ( who submitted a parking ticket for Kelvingrove Park 2015 ) ,Bill McKinnon was in charge of the bank account at that time & refused to pay it .

    Bruno Cellini gets payed for providing the P/A system + travel + accommodation McKay/Kelly/ ect all get travel expenses + food drink ect .

    Auob have registered several companies & to date have never produced accounts .

    Nobody on the Wings stall gets expenses , we pay our own way & give all profits to worthy causes ( not for glory ect ect ) .

  247. carjamtic says:

    Aye I think we already know, civic society will be our voice and you lot at WoS shut the fukc up,you wouldn’t know reality if served you a pint of slops and told you it was freshly poured (their idea of civic society continues to be Uncle Jocks,masculine,conservative,hedonistic and let’s not hear any of your nonsense about austerity or purity.

    I think we have enough repeated experience of this to allow us to believe that the same slops will served up in the future, unless we draw the line (it is fair to say that line has been drawn) and it is not just scarred onto the landscape, but onto the faces of most Scots (even, if over time some have acquired a liking for the taste) and it is time to find a new watering hole.

    Once Scotland’s Independence is restored, natural selfishness,without disappearing will be joined by enlightened self-interest…..and an approval of what is good for the community is also good for you and me (morality) and all the not so boringly ordinary, everyday stuff like modern manufacturing, commerce and international trade.

    There is no denying the past, during the days of empire some in Scotland did very well,but it’s gone, it’s over,finito, so please stop telling the same old lies… ‘it’s really a beautiful swan gliding along the top of the water and what you not seeing is….’ .when it’s really an emancipated polar bear cub clinging onto some empty plastic bottles that have been blown out of an overfilled skip, by previously unheard of, hurricane force winds, floating in a gigantic puddle of acidic rain.

    Adam Smith insisted that National wealth consists in the sum total of productive activities, recognition that national wealth is created by the entire population.In an independent Scotland that wealth will not be hoarded away by the elite but be used for the benefit of all, for a fairer society.

    So no matter what the London elites or their Red/BlueTories enablers or for that matter the Uncle Jocks of civic society spout on their friendly state propaganda tv channels, nothing will change in the future except perhaps, for the forever deteriorating taste of their slops.

    It is time for a second modern Scottish Enlightenment, for a truly democratic Scotland to re-emerge from the shadows, where every citizen has a voice, where true equality is the new reality, where you can still call someone a cunt, without it necessarily being an insult, where the national football stadium is named after an actual Scot, now that would be enlightening and a start.

  248. Iain mhor says:

    @geeo 4:31pm

    I do recall doing that myself, your mention of crates reminds of the Alpine man coming round the doors (the American Cream Soda was about the only thing not rank, the limeade was horrendous) So unfortunately that ages me ha! But yeah kids hoovered up anything with a deposit. Same would happen with deposit on plastic.
    Get enough and your squad could buy a chip roll each and a big bottle of Irn Bru to pass around (replete with chippy floaters the lower it got) Happy days.

  249. Iain mhor says: I nearly forgot Alpine Dandelion & Burdock.
    God, that would be illegal nowadays!

  250. ronnie anderson says:

    Iain mhor 3.39 The statement Auob put out is Caterers pay 20% Stalls pay 10% . I’ve had more dealings with Auob than most ( McGuinness & myself represented Auob at GCC ) . All people see is a successful march but dont see the abuse dished out to long time Independence promoters by Manny/McKay/Kelly/Cellini/McDonald/Steel & the many associates.

    ( if they had answered legitimate questions in the 1st place re collection buckets ect there wouldn’t be so much distrust ).

    They thrive on controversy to get people noised up to attend when there is no need ..

  251. Robert Peffers says:

    @bjsalba says:22 June, 2019 at 6:55 pm:

    ” … Read a piece from the Express today. They are griping that the EU is not democratic again. They want an EU wide vote for the President of the Commission.”

    Now, bsjalba, are you not aware by this time that the Express story is absolute bollox?

    The President of the EU Commission is exactly what his or her title describes them as, “Commissioners”, are commissioned, (a.k.a. paid), Civil Servants of the European Union Parliament and Civil Servants are not elected to their jobs. The President of the EC is the EU appointed head of the EU civil service but an employee none the less.

    The whole thing is no more than the same kind of Red Herring as the daft story about bent bananas. When is it going to sink into people that The European Parliament makes the decisions and the EU Civil Service, (a.k.a. the EC or European Commission), carries out the orders of the European Union.

    There is, of course, another function carrier out by civil servants – they can be asked to advise the EU and to do research at the behest of the EU Parliament.

    The Westminster propaganda machine has long, first fostered this confusion, and then ever after used it to confuse the public even more.

  252. Cubby says:


    Callachan defending an Englishman. A day of surprises. The other big surprise is he is defending an Englishman called Boris Johnson. Wow you make a lot of good choices Terry old boy. Bojo and Terry a couple of racists in union – oops meant to say unison. Both with short tempers as well.

    If this post annoys you I would recommend counting to ten before spouting more of your personal and silly abuse. No I have not been taking any drugs or drink and I am feeling well.

  253. CameronB Brodie says:

    Terrance Calachan
    “Now that’s interesting , I had to read it twice , well most of it twice”

    Wow, now that’s enthusiasm. 🙂

    re. self-reflection and social empowerment. Here’s one with an eye on Scotland’s future in Brexitania. Scots may be the same colour as the English (mostly white), but is that reflected in our political relations? Full text.

    Anti-racism beyond empathy: Transformations in the knowing and governing of racial difference


    This article applies Michel Foucault’s provocative treatment of racism to a critique of contemporary forms of White anti-racism. From Foucault’s reflections, it is possible to extrapolate two key functions: racism as a mode of knowledge aimed at destabilizing sovereign power, and racism as a mode of government aimed at establishing divisions within society.

    These functions are reproduced across the program of White anti-racism, which aims at the cultivation of empathy for racial minorities. Moreover, this article examines racism and anti-racism in terms of their functioning within the economy of a social/racial contract, in which anti-racism is understood as an obligation to return to the other that which racism has taken away.

    Alternative modes of White anti-racism are proposed that, drawing on Foucault’s notion of an ethics of the self, imagine alternative practices of White anti-racism beyond the terms of a moral economy of anti-racism.

    Foucault, racism, anti-racism, empathy, biopower, necropower

  254. schrodingers cat says:

    anyone got the actual poll results, including the dks?

  255. Scott says:

    Who the hell does he thinks he is.

    Conservative leadership candidate Jeremy Hunt has said he would never allow the break up of the United Kingdom if he becomes prime minister.

  256. Gary45% says:

    Iain Mhor@5.03
    The Alpine van used to come past the “big school” on a Thursday lunchtime. (early-mid 70s)
    It was always a case of school dinner or a bottle of skoosh? especially on a warm day, looking back it was probably a case of “pass the floaters”.
    If only I had known then, what problems/cost, missing teeth would cause in later life.
    Happy “Daze”.

  257. Marcia says:

    schrodingers cat

    Panelbase haven’t released them so far. Maybe tomorrow we shall see the full data-sets.

  258. Ken500 says:

    Dissing YES movements on an Independence supporting website. Kettle black. It just undermines the movement. Folk having mud slung at them unnecessarily. Should not be throwing mud back. Everyone is doing their best. Great Rallies, Marches and support. Nit picking. There is an expense to be covered. Many volunteers etc give up their time and monies. Without any recompense. If they get expenses. They deserve it. What is the problem? A storm in a teacup. Just understate ‘takings’ if there is any problem. The commercial enterprises should be making a contribution from credible profit.

  259. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Abulhaq

    Sturgeon’s torn face when the interviewer asked if she really thought Boris was a racist. It was like she was silently screaming at the interviewer: “Didn’t you get the memo? This is the narrative we’ve been building for years with a little help from our friends (of whom I thought you were one), about how N’Gland = Ku Klux Klan country, and Scotland = multicultural school disco. Don’t be blowing on this house of cards, bitch. We’ve almost got folk convinced, and it’s all I’m good for outside selling books to woke wimmin.”

  260. call me dave says:

    A taster on the polls.

  261. Ken500 says:

    In other countries they issue strong paper bags for which there is not a charge. Ireland, US and many others. When plastic bags were surcharged/taxed in Scotland. The firms should have been allowed to issue paper bags without charge. The firms in Scotland still charge (5p+) for paper bags. The provision should have been these bags were free. They can be recycled more effectively. Firms will supply tissue, newspaper or cardboard boxes free. Not paper carriers. To cut down even more on plastic bags. If people forget or are unable to take a recycle bag with them.

  262. kapelmeister says:

    Some acronyms for Boris Johnson.

    He’s got;

    The addictive sex life of a JFK
    The unscrupulousness of an LBJ
    The racism of the BNP
    The subtlety of a KFC
    The honesty of the BBC

    And he’ll be governing with the votes of the DUP.

  263. Proud Cybernat says:


    I’ve found where ‘Britain’ is:

  264. Robert Peffers says:

    @Cubby says:23 June, 2019 at 1:09 pm:

    … I personally have never reported anyone for them to be removed as I believe in free speech. But that is Peffers right to do so as he is following the site rules.

    Now I don’t want to interrupt, Cubby, but if you re-read my post I didn’t say I would report anyone, it isn’t my style, I said he would be reported. I base what I say upon the fact that the constant harping on of the aspersion that anyone is both drunk and drugged when there is no basis for claiming so will most certainly get up other noses than my own.

    I only said that if he continued to do so he, ” … would be reported”. Such behaviour always gets to a point when someone, often the abused person, reports the behaviour.

    Next up I’m getting all sorts of totally wrong, (I’ve no idea if it is deliberate), accusation made against me. For example that I called people trolls. A thing I’ve never ever done.

    Anyway, I’m very well able to stand my ground, in any form of debate or argument, without complaint to the authority on a blog.

  265. CameronB Brodie says:

    So what exactly is illiberal about neo-liberalism?

    Freedom after Neoliberalism

    Over the last four decades, the rise of the socio-political formation widely referred to as neoliberalism has seen a particular model of freedom – the freedom of free markets, property rights, and entrepreneurial self-ownership – gain prominence in a variety of ways around the globe. More recently, there has been a surge in critical activity around neoliberalism, which has led to the emergence of an increasingly settled understanding of its political, economic, and cultural mechanics.

    Most critiques, however, have proven reluctant to engage neoliberalism on the territory that it has conspicuously made its own: namely, freedom. This special collection aims to rethink, re-evaluate, and renovate the many meanings of freedom beyond its limited economic function in neoliberal theory and practice, and to imagine what freedom might look like in a world beyond neoliberalism.

    The introduction provides an overview of the current conjuncture, in which there is a growing realisation that neoliberal governance has failed to deliver on its promises of freedom. We argue that this realisation has made possible, and necessary, the exploration of new histories and new futures of freedom. The introduction concludes with a brief summary of the articles that comprise this special collection.

  266. geeo says:

    Ian Mhor @5.03pm

    Sadly, i remember Alpine ‘juice’

    Big bottles of fecking primary colours and other rainbow selections !!

    Agree about American Cream Soda, especially used in conjunction with big dollop of ice cream !!

  267. Robert Peffers says:

    @:Joe says: 23 June, 2019 at 1:48 pm:

    ” … Just taking a break and seeing a lot of nonsense on social media. Not much new on here either. I will make 2 points:”


    No need for further comment.

  268. geeo says:

    @robert p

    I think ‘Joe’ means that he is taking a break from posting nonsense on social media, and since there is not much nonsense on here, he will just throw some in.

    Thats how i read it anyhoo…*(winky thang)*

  269. Footsoldier says:

    BBC appear to have closed down HYS everywhere. I suppose that is inevitable if the people don’t favour the BBC viewpoint.

  270. Liz g says:

    geeo @ 7.00
    Alpine…. Well werent you the posh one!!
    Some of us had to slum it wi Bon Acord 🙂

  271. Capella says:

    A sentence I never expected to type. Here’s a thoughtful and truthful article from Stephen Daisley. There, I’ve said it.

    Holyrood’s trans rights pause is a good thing
    Via Stu’ twitter.

  272. galamcennalath says:

    @Ian Mhor

    Ayrshire it was Turner and Ewing from Kilmarnock, and Currys from Cumnock (I believe).

    Hideous bright colours marked out the ‘fruit’ ones. My mother never trusted the colours and thought it best to stick to lemonade and American Cream Soda. Our of her sight, of course, I thought the brighter the colour the more the flavour.

    Most kids referred to all flavours as ‘ginger’ … orangeade was ‘orange ginger’.

  273. call me dave says:

    Shurley cant blow 6 match points…. LOL 🙂

  274. galamcennalath says:

    @Ian Mhor

    🙂 memories!

  275. Petra says:

    @ Capella at 7:24pm …… “Stephen Daisley.”

    Well who would have thought it? Excellent article right enough and well done to Joan McAlpine et all.

  276. Cubby says:

    Andy Murray wins on his comeback.

  277. Liz g says:

    I’m seeing a Facebook post sayin that all the Union Jackory from last year’s Highland Show has gone… Yay…
    Apparently there’s only the usual amount of Butchers Aprons!
    Hopefully the ” Keep Scotland the Brand Campaign ” has been having an impact….
    Let’s keep up the pressure!
    If it’s got a Jack then put it back!!
    If it’s not your Flag don’t put it in yer Bag 🙂

  278. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. Joan McAlpine and the ongoing defense of womanhood, from the forces of structural misogyny. I reckon a good portion of the hostility currently directed towards lesbians, is simply down to the fact that lesbians tend to reject dick. As such, the only way that misogynists can empower themselves over lesbians, is by defining the lesbian sexual preference as being trans-phobic. Which is bollocks, of course. Time for some scientific steel-toecaps?

    Reclaiming reality and redefining realism: the challenging case of transgenderism


    Recently an acrimonious debate has emerged about transgenderism. Trans-activists defending the full spectrum of the latter have advocated a form of identity politics based upon individual self-definition. However, gender-critical feminists (within another current of identity politics) have disputed the legitimacy of these bids for self-determination, especially when considering men who are claiming to be women.

    These contrasting positions are examined and their political implications explored. The focus of the paper is on the intransitive aspects of sex and the transitive aspects of gender. The former, with rare exceptions, is a binary whereas the latter is open to social negotiation and variation. The article argues that the gender-critical position is broadly aligned with critical realist philosophy, though the counter view is represented in order to clarify this point of reflection. It ends with a discussion of the ‘trans debate’ and the public policy development emerging in its wake.

    KEYWORDS: Sex, gender, transgenderism, gender re-assignment

  279. starlaw says:

    Apparently there were Unicorns at the Highland show, heard it getting spoken about on Radio Shortbred.

  280. Iain mhor says:

    @ronnie anderson 5:15pm

    Thanks for the correction, obviously more intelligence than I am privy to. I will reconsider.

  281. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Iain Mhor @ 17:03
    Gary45% @ 17:34
    geeo @ 19:00
    galamcennalath @ 19:30

    In Aberdeen it was Hays. For whatever reason (finances included, no doubt) we never got any at home, just a very occasional glass of Cremola Foam in the summertime, but our gran (mum’s mum) always kept a bottle in the press for visiting kin.

    It wasn’t just the bottles that were recycled, it was also the stoppers, which were solid black things with a coarse thread and the maker’s mark embossed on the top.

    Those bottles were also great for an Archimedean diver (aka Cartesian diver), just an invisible hint of a turn one way or the other on the stopper and up or down it would go.

  282. Petra says:

    Jeremy Hunt thinks that if he makes a fleeting visit to Scotland, eats a fish supper, holds a can of Irn Bru and tells us that he spent two years here he can then inform us that he won’t “allow” Scotland to become Independent.

    Who do these jumped up ar*eholes think they are? Scots NOT that’s for sure. If he was he would know that the worst thing you can do, especially if you are English, is to tell the Scots what they can and cannot do.

    The Scots (majority) haven’t voted for the Tories since 1955 but we’re still being subjected to the bl**dy Tory Colonial superior attitude from people like corrupt Hunt the dictatorial Runt …… Johnson et al. Keep your beak out of Scotland, rather focus on getting on with the day job in England boys. Cleaning up the mess that you’ve made should keep you busy 24×7 for years to come.

  283. CameronB Brodie says:

    And some more stuff to consider when considering appeasement of misogynistic entry-ism into womanhood, through the woke back-door. That is definitely a lifestyle ‘kink’ that would have far reaching social implications, beyond the bedroom. Such is the effect of neo-liberalism on the female body.

    Using Feminist Critical Policy Analysis in
    the Realm of Higher Education
    The Case of Welfare Reform as Gendered Educational

    Policy analysis is never value-neutral. However, it is often silent on the issue of gender. As a result, traditional policy analysis results in “partial and perverse understandings” of the ways in which women’s lives are affected by policy (Harding, 1986). In a recent critique of educational policy research, Catherine Marshall (1999) makes the argument that educational policy analysis systematically “has ignored or marginalized the feminist critique” (p. 1). Yet, as Marshall goes on to point out, gender is not an afterthought in the formation of policy itself.

    In fact, the state has a clear role in gender politics even when it is not overtly discussed in official documents (Apple, 1994). This critique is also directly applicable to research on higher education policy and practice. Many higher education policies, such as those regarding tuition, degree programs, and transfer policies, would appear to be gender neutral if analyzed within a relatively narrow framework that does not acknowledge broader economic, social, and political factors.

    Yet large-scale shifts in the global economy, along with major changes in national social policy, can have distinct and far-reaching effects on the practices and policies of colleges and universities, and in turn on the lives of the women who work in them and/or attend them.

    Recently, several researchers have provided evidence to support the argument that broad economic and political factors do indeed intersect with institutions of higher education and that they have a clear and consistent effect on women (Slaughter, 1999; Glazer, 1999)….

  284. galamcennalath says:

    Re olde world drinks.

    My Granny would encourage me to have a glass of Japp’s Health Salts. It came from a square tin and I thought it was an alternative to Creamola Foam. Wasn’t till years later I realised it was laxative. My Granny was somewhat obsessed with bowel regularity.

  285. Iain mhor says:


    Yer dead right about Turner and Ewing and Curries (ta for reminding me about T&E) You still get Curries and their Curries Red Cola – I’d say is their signature luggy.
    Alpine did scoot aboot Ayrshire as well though, from what I recall. I don’t remember the delights of ‘Bon Accord’ though.

    Aye, fizzy juice had many handles – everything being flavours of ‘ginger’ was pretty much what I recall, though “luggy bottles” as well, maybe that was a Glasgow connection ?
    What has this to do with Indy? I dunno, maybe home grown industries might thrive or something. Our teeth certainly wouldn’t. And as @geeo reminded me – if you’ve never rolled about holding your belly in agony after an American cream soda “float” – ye’ve never lived. Anyway, just a wee distraction from misery.
    “Right, enough of that – back to awful politics!” *sigh

    Y’know as a wean, still enjoying the delights of chip rolls and ginger, I saw a slogan “Free Scotland” painted on the side of an old shed while on a car trip and asked my folks what it meant…
    That’s why I’m here today.

  286. galamcennalath says:

    Hunt and Johnson’s anti Scottish democracy pronouncements.

    There are 8000 Tory Party members in Scotland. ~7% of the UK total. You can bet that almost all of them are über say NO to Indy fanatics. Both leadership candidates will be playing to that group.

    Also, the English members will be impressed (they both hope) by the hard man act. The nasty people want a nasty leader for their nasty party.

    The one who wins takes home a poisoned chalice as the prize! Economic disaster, destruction of their party, the end of the UK – all in play. Being a hard barstad won’t help much.

  287. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Bob Accord was the other big bottle home delivery fizz … almost as vile as Alpine.

    Dunnsade, Solripe Red Kola and Tizer(before Barrs takeover) were my favorites, honorable mentions to Skoosh and Koola-Pop because they only cost 10d a bottle.

  288. galamcennalath says:

    Iain mhor says:

    What has this to do with Indy? I dunno

    Maybe all these historical bits and pieces help make us different and unique as Scots. We drank ginger, made sugar ally watter, played huntygowk, plunked the skool, got the Lochgelly etc etc.. Recent decades folks found different way to be different as Scots. Oor popular culture, nae yin else oan the planet’s.

  289. Phronesis says:

    The charismatic language of BoJo- a prophetic not a conventional political leader, his personality cult based on certainty and aggression invoking the spirit of Churchill, Thatcher, Britain’s Empire . The horror –remembering the 70s- BoJo was forced to eat only boiled food and witnessed folks being forced into scuzzy pubs and fleeing to Essex.

    ‘I remember what it was like and how this country was seen. Our food was boiled and our teeth were awful and our cars wouldn’t work and our politicians were so hopeless that they couldn’t even keep the lights on because the coal miners were constantly out on strike, as were the train drivers and the grave-diggers, and the man who was really in charge seemed to be called Jack Jones. I remember how deserted London seemed, as people fled to Essex or elsewhere, and the stringy grass and the spangles wrappers and the bleached white dog turds in the park, and the gust of Watneys pale ale from the scuzzy pubs’

    BoJo will guide us to Empire 2- a grand industrial expansion of biscuits and jam because there are no other commodities -the conservative party aka the Brexit Party is tanking the economy, devastating inward investment and growth.

    Conservatives have always struggled to deliver their one nation conservatism to all their citizens especially those uppity Jocks in Jockland. Their largesse only extends to the top cornflakes- of which BoJo is one- having crushed all the lower IQ cornflakes on his elevation to messiah. He really is a top cornflake, we lesser cornflakes should marvel at his intellect, his talent, honed over many years by greed, privilege and entitlement with very little effort on his part other than spending time penning offensive rhyming couplets for publication.

    ‘No one can ignore the harshness of that competition, or the inequality that it inevitably accentuates; and I am afraid that violent economic centrifuge is operating on human beings who are already very far from equal in raw ability, if not spiritual worth. Whatever you may think of the value of IQ tests, it is surely relevant to a conversation about equality that as many as 16 per cent of our species have an IQ below 85, while about 2 per cent have an IQ above 130. The harder you shake the pack, the easier it will be for some cornflakes to get to the top. And for one reason or another – boardroom greed or, as I am assured, the natural and god given talent of boardroom inhabitants – the income gap between the top cornflakes and the bottom cornflakes is getting wider than ever. I stress: I don’t believe that economic equality is possible; indeed, some measure of inequality is essential for the spirit of envy and keeping up with the Joneses that is, like greed, a valuable spur to economic activity’

  290. Dr Jim says:

    Kieran Andrews on Sky news reminding us that there’s no appetite for Scottish Independence in the near future because his newspaper’s (the English Times one of the most hostile rags towards Independence) opinion poll says so

    Once again no matter what the elected government by the people of Scotland wants or is entitled to by democratic mandated vote, *journalists* representing the country that Scotland wants to be Independent from invent a lie to tell the folk of England that nobody in Scotland wants Independence because they say so

    How many people does it take to march in the streets of Scotland and how many reporters refuse to report those numbers will it take, perhaps if Scotland took a look at what’s happening in Hong Kong right now and how when you put a million people on the street they can’t ignore you because you shut down an entire city

    If we can put 100,000 people on the street in Glasgow or Edinburgh each one of us can bring a few more and make them take notice because they’ll have to

    The Extinction rebellion folk got more publicity and they couldn’t put a tenth of what we can, Pride march was the same, the news media cover what they want to cover, it’s about time we made them report our position by using overwhelmingly massive numbers exactly the way they’re doing in Hong Kong to make their point

    Oh by the way Andy Murray is a wonderful guy a hero a champion and back to being British again today

  291. Col.Blimp IV says:

    ain mhor says

    “a slogan “Free Scotland” painted on the side of an old shed”

    That same slogan was painted in six foot high letters on the side of an old ruined castle near Linlithgow, visible from the road to Edinburgh, it was there for decades.

    Till some nobs decided to convert the old pile into house or something … it has been surrounded by scaffolding for about twenty years and the building has shrunk to about a third of its original size.

    If there was any justice in the world, Scottish Heritage would make them re-instate the ruin and re-paint the Slogan.

  292. call me dave says:

    Plumbers at Somerville Street next door to my Uncle Ernie’s riveter etc at the shipyard. Spent most of my summer holidays there for the ‘Burntisland Games’ 🙂

    Green ‘still lime’ 🙂

    Also Woodrows in Nethertown Broad Street Dunfermline
    American cream soda and more delivered to your door 1950’s Hill of Beath.

    Anyone remember 1p ‘vantesse’? local chippy made & sold them purple watery stuff tasted like parma violet. 🙁

    Thanks for reminding me:

    I had a wee frogman you put in the bottle. Up and down when you turned the bottle top … wee touch of washing soda required.

  293. CameronB Brodie says:

    You’re heading in the direction of cultural anthropology and the ‘social history’ view, which is a helpful tool for assessing the amount of AGENCY a community possess. From this perspective, it is clear that Scotland’s public lack any political AGENCY. Subsequently, we are not “free”, in the traditional meaning of the word (see the full English Brexit, for example). 😉

    History from Below, the History of Everyday Life, and Microhistory


    ‘People’s history’ focuses on the lives of ordinary people, with an eye to their struggles, everyday practices, beliefs, values, and mentalities. In?uenced by the Annales School and cultural anthropology, but reacting against traditional social history ’s emphasis on social structures and serial trends, its practitioners emphasize the importance of individual agency while trying to demonstrate the complexity of lived experience, the ?uidity of identity, and the subjective nature of meaning. Important types of ‘people’s history’ include ‘history from below,’ Alltagsgeschichte (the ‘history of everyday life’), and ‘microhistory,’ all of which involve a dramatic reduction of historical scale, focusing on a single individual, community, or spectacular event.

  294. Capella says:

    Bon Accord is Aberdeen’s motto. My granny kept a bottle of Dazzle for us kids when we visited. I used to imagine that it was like beer. I was deeply disappointed when I eventually tasted beer.

    We had Cremola Foam too. Cherry phosphate flavour.

  295. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Petra @ 20:31,

    The thing is, the Tories are even more grasping at straws in Scotland than elsewhere, because they know that post-indy they will be marginalised, and no longer able to rely on their ideas and policies being forced upon the rest of us anyway thanks to long English Tory sojourns in WM.

    Ironic really, since post-indy they will have to sink or swim on their merits just like the rest of us. You would think that would be something they would enthusiastically embrace, all that “taking responsibility for your life” they are always preaching about.

    There’s hypocrisy, and there’s Scottish Tory hypocrisy.

  296. Cubby says:

    Robert Peffers@6.30 pm

    Fair comment. However, I never meant to imply you would ( but I can see how it can seen that way), just that it was your right to do so if you wanted to. I had no idea if you had ever reported someone or not.

    Frankly, I’m not really bothered one way or another if some posters want to report people or not. It’s just not my thing.

  297. Cubby says:

    call me dave @9.14pm

    Nice golf course at Burntisland with cracking views along the Forth.

  298. Effijy says:

    Asking Scotland to chose between Bojo and Hunt
    Is akin to deciding whether you want Saville or Cyril
    Smith to baby sit for you!

  299. Iain mhor says:

    @Col. Blimp IV

    So there is an origin for “A bottle o’ Skoosh”
    I’m familiar with that used as a generic like ‘ginger & luggy’
    Must have been a legacy from a shade before my time then!

  300. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert J. Sutherland
    “Ironic really, since post-indy they will have to sink or swim on their merits just like the rest of us. You would think that would be something they would enthusiastically embrace, all that “taking responsibility for your life” they are always preaching about.

    There’s hypocrisy, and there’s Scottish Tory hypocrisy.”

    Spot on Robert. The essence of neo-liberalism is individualism and self-reliance. Not being treated as legally subordinate to the politics on another nation. 😉

  301. Iain mhor says:

    An aside on the subject of painted slogans:

    Though they were few and far between decades ago, they obviously had an impact. One wee boy saw it and questioned it all those years ago. How many others saw it? How many did they perhaps influence in turn? Who knows, but if something as small as that had lasting influence and kept a guttering flame alive; how much more so the high profile “YES” campaigns of today.
    Keep the faith people, your small contributions may yet fan the flame which will never be extinguished. Even if some of us may fade without seeing Scotland Independent in our lifetimes, perhaps another child will, just because they asked “Dad, what does YES mean?”

  302. call me dave says:


    Indeed it is, played it often with my father and his pals as a pre-teeny (all miners). I was not bad at the gowf at that age first handicap of 10… got better too as I grew older!

    Just watch it now…follow Laird and opportunity Knox in USA.

    They’re like the ‘artesian frogman’ this week up and down the leader board today hovering in the top twenty.
    Watching Laird now. 🙁

  303. Robert Peffers says:


    Sorry couldn’t remind about Full Scottish as I had to go out but it can still be w3atched on YouTube:-

    Three nice and very bright ladies tonight:

  304. Cubby says:

    Liz g@8.06pm

    It’s getting bloody annoying the amount of stuff with the union flag on it these days. Some even sneaks into my cupboard by having the flag at the side or back and it is missed.

    It’s adding about 15 mins to my shop putting stuff back all the time. These Britnats have a lot to answer for.

  305. CageyBee says:

    THe Globe juice factory in lower london road did far better stuff than alpine or bon accord

  306. Cubby says:

    call me dave@9.50 pm

    “Just watch it now” – that’s too bad. Hope you got to play some courses on the west coast – best views IMO in Scotland – eg Millport/Rothesay.

  307. Welsh Sion says:

    Not sure if already posted … but a useful link. (And my attempt at archiving).

  308. Lenny Hartley says:

    Call me Dave and Cubby. Come to Arran seven courses, stunning views and great courses.

  309. Liz g says:

    Cubby @ 9.52
    Well.. When the history of this is written…
    How pathetic is this going to look?
    They are sticking a fleg on everything that stands still!
    That’s it???
    That’s all they’ve got???
    And the delicious thing Cubby,is that,Independence will not only remove that fleg from Scotland…
    It will remove that fleg, or at the very least, the legitimacy of that fleg, to fly anywhere!!
    They may choose to still fly it,as is their right..
    But little ole us are going to put that Flegs beyond any legitimate use.. 🙂 🙂
    And Union…. Nae Jack…

  310. Gary45% says:

    Old drinks.
    I remember an old pal of my granny who lived in one of the pensioners bungalows in the street.
    She was a lovely old lady who used to works for the Royals.
    One winter she gave my gran a recipe for some “winter wonder potion” she used to make for the young Royals, ( might have been Charlie and Anne). If memory serves me, it was a concoction of eggs, sugar and cod liver oil.
    My gran made about half a dozen bottles of this stuff, it was rank rotten, eventually it must have fermented as we had a small “explosion” under the kitchen sink, much to my relief.

  311. Capella says:

    @ Welsh Sion
    Yes you have archived the article. Well done! Now, when you want to copy and paste the URL, click into the URL in the address bar, right click, select copy. Then paste into the Wings comment box. You should get the address with the http:// included. That makes it a live link.

  312. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Iain mhor

    My memory of it dates from the mid 60’s, it came in bottles about the same size as the 500ml ones popular today, I have no idea where it was made.

    You might find this interesting.

  313. Cubby says:

    Lenny Hartley@10.52pm

    Played quite a few of them. Bumped into a few Cleggs when Ive been to Arran. And I don’t mean Lib dem supporters. Views are good there as well.

  314. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. cultural anthropology and the social history view. This insight is helpful in understanding and developing a “psychological sense of connected-ness” with the local community. This is good voodoo and would help straighten out the likes of bat-shit history academics. 😉

    Community Assessment
    Chapter 3. Assessing Community Needs and Resources
    Section 2. Understanding and Describing the Community

  315. Hamish100 says:

    Re Flags.

    Is the flying of flags a “reserved power”?

    If not could the Scots Parliament not just degree that in any public building the saltire flies the highest!

  316. Hamish100 says:

    Sorry – decree

  317. Liz g says:

    Hamish 100 @ 12.50
    I don’t really know about flying flags Hamish!!
    Or truth be told about why the Butchers Apron is becoming ubiquitous…
    But it is IMHO a side issue,as in, not a big deal.
    ( Not withstanding “Scotland the Brand ” )
    I’d hate to think that we would “actually fight over it”!!
    It’s a bit of cloth,worthy and useful on an ancient battlefield,but now only symbolic…. And certainly not worth a life!!!
    We shouldn’t let Westminster make it more than what it is…
    As much as they try.
    They did it in Ireland ( they have demonstrations about it )
    We should, I think, learn from this…
    We will h Eave our flag,one way or another,and we must campaign to make it so…
    But we,as I’m sure you’ll agree try t always.. raise it with pride and not aggression….

  318. Cactus says:

    Ruth (Dave) Davidson is at the top-right of the panel

    “A Giant Meteor is headed right for…”

    Celebrity Melinda knows

  319. Cactus says:

    Oopsy, Celebrity Belinda at the Bottom rhs knows, that is

  320. Cactus says:

    40 Years of Fun Channel 0 / Ten network (indy Australian tv)

    Featuring Perfect Match. Daryl & Ossie Show, Blankety Blanks

    “Dave” makes another appearance

  321. Petra says:

    The Boris row is top of the bill once again. Anybody else wondering if this is a bit of a coincidence? Timely? I can’t stand the man, however I’ve never heard of him being abusive towards women previously. In fact his breakup with his wife seemed to be quite amicable with them still remaining friends. Anyway just a thought.

  322. Terry callachan says:

    To geeo and cubby, behave

    I’m going to be absent from wings for two weeks , too busy.
    Remember what I told you, there are NO regular posters on wings who are British nationalists
    ALL the people you accuse of being British nationalists are quite obviously Scottish independence supporters
    So behave yourselves

    By the way if any real British nationalists do happen to comment on wings ,welcome them and debate with them in a reasonable manner
    There is a need for all points of view to be heard

    The more we Scottish independence supporters know about what makes so many people in Scotland reluctant to support an independent Scotland the better
    The best way to find out is to listen to what they say and try and alleviate their fears
    In a nice way
    Shouting abuse at people being rude and insulting never ever changed anyone’s point of view
    Especially in politics so behave yourselves

  323. McBoxheid says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    23 June, 2019 at 3:14 pm

    @McBoxheid says: 23 June, 2019 at 11:08 am:

    I have never since I began posting to Wings ever accused anyone of being a Troll.

    o.k Can you quote even a single instance where I accused anyone of being a troll, McBoxheid?
    Yes indeed I can

    Robert Peffers says:
    30 May, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    @McBoxheid says: 29 May, 2019 at 12:33 pm:

    Either you are at best a troll and at worse a unionist plant in Wings.

  324. McBoxheid says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    23 June, 2019 at 10:40 am

    @Terry callachan says: 22 June, 2019 at 9:49 pm:

    Terry, if you continue with these unsubstantiated claims that certain Wingers are drug and alcohol abusers you will be formally complained about.
    Robert Peffers says:
    23 June, 2019 at 6:30 pm

    @Cubby says:23 June, 2019 at 1:09 pm:

    Now I don’t want to interrupt, Cubby, but if you re-read my post I didn’t say I would report anyone, it isn’t my style, I said he would be reported.

    No, you are too sleekit for that, you stir up others to do it for you

    Next up I’m getting all sorts of totally wrong, (I’ve no idea if it is deliberate), accusation made against me. For example that I called people trolls. A thing I’ve never ever done.
    In my last post I quoted you accusing me. Here it is again:

    Robert Peffers says:
    30 May, 2019 at 12:16 pm
    Either you are at best a troll and at worse a unionist plant in Wings.

  325. Bobp says:

    Petra 6.18am. My thoughts, the powers that be realise that boris being elected pm is a boost for Scottish independence, so therefore have decided to put a spoke in his wheel. Their precious union comes first.

  326. Bobp says:

    Mibbees all this ginger and skoosh that was drank in the late 60’s 70’s was all part of a forward thinking plan by the establishment to rot some ‘Scots’ brains (along with their teeth) to make them in johannas words…..not politically aware.

  327. admiral says:

    Petra says:
    24 June, 2019 at 6:18 am
    The Boris row is top of the bill once again. Anybody else wondering if this is a bit of a coincidence? Timely? I can’t stand the man, however I’ve never heard of him being abusive towards women previously

    He forced one of his many mistresses to have an abortion, did he not? Is that not abusive?

    He has cheated on his wife and children many, many times. Is that not abusive?

  328. starlaw says:

    I doubt Boris will ever be PM. I doubt if he wants the job, this is all fun and games to the egotistic buffoon, he knows the PM will have to do some work and that is not how Boris wants to live, as mayor of London, he paid others to do his job whilst he played himself, wont happen as PM . Boris will withdraw but not until he has had all the fun he can get. Boris will not be seen as a loser but will hang on until its impossible for Gove to step in.

  329. I thought it was a joke when someone said that Jeremy H would appear in Scotland with an IRN BRU: then he did, – with chips. Oh so Scottish. These folk have no shame and a brass neck.

  330. Clootie says:

    The next PM!

    Remember what is happening in Scotland due to Tory austerity cuts. Remember the wealth of a Nation has been stolen to benefit the South of England. Remember the focus of the Union on WMD, Bankers, weapons of Force Projection, promoting American Right Wing policies….It doesn’t matter who the PM is. It doesn’t even matter which Party is in Government…the puppet masters will ensure the same road is followed…we need to get out of this toxic Union.

  331. frogesque says:

    Irn Bru has history, it should have a restraint order against it being anywhere near politicians.

    .Remember Jim Murphy!

    Or perhaps you would rather forget.

  332. Abulhaq says:

    A prime minister has ministers to do the hard stuff. It is what Cameron did. He, like Cameron, would be after an easy non confrontational time. He’d possibly be compliant on more executive powers for the SP. He could go for a GE even. Hunt certainly wouldn’t. He’s extra hard line.
    Both would be ‘useful’ in their respective ways. Opportunities gu leòr.

  333. Iain mhor says:

    Who’s in charge while Mr Callachan is away?
    I hope it’s no the Heedie, he draws it hard! Mibbe we’ll get sumdy on supply we can rip the pish ootie til the holidays next week.

  334. Dr Jim says:

    The SNP are failing on everything Health Education Rail says Telegraph Tory Alan Cochrane and the BBC just allows him to rant a whole bunch of unsubstantiated claims then leaves them unquestioned as they allow Cochrane to splurge his vomit all over our radios by telling us *Jeremy Hunt had a great day in Scotland yesterday* when the truth is Mr Hunt stood on the end of a Peterhead pier and had his photy taken holding a bag of chips, proving to us all inconclusively he’s a man of the people (just in truth not our people)

    Because all Mr Hunt missed was the rest of the Ruth Davidson approach to campaigning which is to sit on the back of the nearest large animal or perch on a stonkingly big machine with a Union flag on it, job done and home for champaigne and oysters leaving the bulk of his poor mans chips in the closest Peterhead bin for the Gulls to munch

    Mr Hunt did manage to squeeze a few words out of his mouth inbetween faking chip scoffing that Boris Johnson was bad and that he Jeremy was better because he doen’t beat his wife (not that that was what he wanted to talk about of course because Jeremy’s better than that)

    Mr Telegraph Tory Alan Cochrane did go on to inform us of how Boris Johnson would be a disaster for Ruth Davidson, and therein tells you the nature of this particular Scottish *journalist* to not mention Mr Johnson would be a disaster for Scotland just bad for Ruth Davidson and her ongoing obsession with Nicola Sturgeon’s shoes and how to get into them

    Scotland means nothing to Tories and never has except for one thing, how much can they take from Scotland while not upsetting their own party too much so they can still manage to look like a political party instead of the robbing Bastirts that they actually are and maintaining an air of not really being sectarianists which is the sole reason for their opposition to Independence and control of their own country because the Kaffliks’ll be in control and her Majesty the Queen God bless her and Rangers football club will have been failed because the government the people actually vote for would be in charge in Scotland and heaven forfend that should ever be allowed to happen

  335. starlaw says:

    Jeremy hunt at Peterhead with fish and chips plus can of Irn Bru … Bru had not been opened and not a seagull in sight, were the fish and chips fake.

  336. Breeks says:

    I’m seeing two express steam trains hurtling towards each other on the same track. One is Scotland’s Sovereign will to remain in Europe, the other is Scotland’s subjugation and removal from Europe. Timetable suggests there will be a head on collision in October, and a helluva bang on current predictions.

    Frankly, I’m more than a little underwhelmed by promises of a referendum in 2020. It feels for all the world like our cowardly acquiescence to be subjugated in October, merely 128 days from now.

    When we’re all done fretting about the Tory leadership freakshow, can we get back to the business of defending Scotland’s Constitutional integrity and staying in Europe as decreed by our people? Time is short.

  337. Cubby says:


    I don’t like being lumped in with anyone else. You know that. Direct any comments to me that are for me to me only. You continue to do this so I take that as insulting behaviour.

    “Shouting abuse at people being rude and insulting never ever changed anyone’s point of view”

    Perhaps you should follow your own advice Callachan because you are the one who directs the personal abuse at me. You post anti English bigot comments. Have done for a long time and do not deny it.

    I know what that makes you and it ain’t pretty.

    Finally, how do you know there are no regular Britnats posting on Wings. You really are full of yourself.

  338. Dr Jim says:

    Patrick Harvie’s speach at the Pride gathering was the most shameful exercise in grubby populist vote grabbing I’ve seen for a long time

    By attacking the parliament he works in and blaming everything on everybody else as if he has no say in the proceedings that take place in that building was not only pathetic it was harmful to the parliament because he wasn’t siding with a particular group he was demonstrating against his own parliament on behalf of anybody who was listening for not doing something about something he never took a definite side on because it’s complicated, but the SNP should fix it so he can complain about that not being good enough

    Mr Harvie was sure of one thing, he was on everybody’s side and nobody else was

    Bad parliament! !*vote for me*! Patrick’s the name, Yaay!!

  339. Welsh Sion says:


    I’ll get there in the end! (Hope after all that the article was interesting/useful … 🙂 )

  340. Abulhaq says:

    Sooner the SNP is free of the flaky Green menace the better.

  341. bjsalba says:

    @Robert Peffers 23 June, 2019 at 5:18 pm

    But it isn’t absolutely bollocks, Robert.
    It is what the populist parties (including the Brexit Party) are now going after.

    The double A4 glossy leaflet put in my mail box this weekend was from the Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy Group in the EU Parliament – with the smirking face of their President – one Nigel Farage.

    They don’t seem to be able to break up the EU with Brexit, so now they are trying to change the institutions in such a way that it will become dysfunctional. That is what the Direct Democracy bit in the name is all about,

    This is not the first time I have caught populist parties touting this line. Only the other week in his podcast, Tony Connolly of RTE interviewed a populist MEP who said explicitly that he wanted the position of President of the Commission to be an elected one, with an EU wide vote.

    I would disagree that the Commissioners are Civil Servants – they are more akin to the political appointees in the Administrative Branch of the USA Federal Government. The big difference is in how they are selected, and what powers they have – and how much power both the Council and Parliament have over them.

  342. McBoxheid says:

    Iain mhor says:
    24 June, 2019 at 8:49 am

    Who’s in charge while Mr Callachan is away?
    I hope it’s no the Heedie, he draws it hard! Mibbe we’ll get sumdy on supply we can rip the pish ootie til the holidays next week.
    Thats a helpful attitude to healthy debate you got there Iain.

  343. Clootie says:

    Patrick Harvie has hit a new low with that disgraceful speech. It is typical of him unfortunately. Thankfully I doubt that his leadership skills will ever be tested as I doubt many are fooled by his approach.

  344. David P says:

    An astute observation from starlaw re the Hunt and the bru. If questioned on this in future, we might expect him to plead

    “I held the can, but I didn’t drink from it.”

    Or, re the tasting of the bru, was it a case of kicking the can down the road?

  345. Dan says:

    I notice Sir David Clegg in “the news”.

    There is “absolutely no evidence” that Russia influenced the EU referendum result using Facebook, the tech giant’s vice-president, Sir Nick Clegg, has said.

    The former deputy prime minister, who started working for the company last October, also dismissed claims that Cambridge Analytica swayed people’s decision to vote Leave in 2016.

    Up to 87 million people are believed to have had their data harvested by the political consultancy via a personality quiz app.

    Sir Nick told the BBC that Facebook had carried out analyses of its data and found no “significant attempt” by outside forces to influence the referendum result.

    Looks like another case of “We’ve investigated ourselves and found we’ve done nothing wrong”… Quelle surprise!

    If there was no significant attempt by outside forces to influence the (EU) referendum result, does that just mean it was all done internally by FB then, what with all those specific tailored ads that only certain people got to see in their FB feeds.

  346. Dan says:

    And further to my previous post, a related tweet just appeared on Rev’s twitter feed.

  347. Dr Jim says:

    Nobody likes Frankensteins Monster so….

    The great British media in its annoyance at Boris Johnson’s lack of co-operation with them have decided to become the stupid town Mayor in the village of Carlsbaad and whip the mob into grabbing their pitchforks and flaming torches to burn down and kill kill kill the monster

    If this were football we’d be complaining about bad refereeing or VAR and screaming *We wuz robbed*
    The Referee, in this case the police, looked at the *offence* checked with VAR and decided No penalty

    So what does the media want from this story, the end of Boris Johnson? of course not,do they care whether he had a row with his partner on *moral grounds* the media, care?!, a change in the law over domestic abuse, don’t think so, a fairer competition to be PM, Nah,

    The media as always want one thing and one thing only, not content with their own interference and control of the direction of politics in the UK, they want total control and they’re using the public just as they always do to justify what they want by telling the public it’s important to them and that they, the guardians of truth and righteousness are working for justice on our behalf

    Most of us don’t like Boris Johnson and know how bad he’ll likely prove to be as a Prime Minister but none of us is unaware the man’s a proven liar so the media want what the media want, and we dear friends are only the tools they use to those ends

  348. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Re Patrick Harvie.

    I never have had much time for the Greens, but, that small, lingering sense of let them be within me vanished when Harvie backed the ending of OBFA – the Offensive Behaviour At Football Act.

    Yes, it was bad law, hastily and sloppily drafted, but, it was a law which was needed. He played a big part in supporting that tube James Kelly and others in getting rid of it – without being willing to put better law in its place.

    That was the final straw for me. Harvie is a chancer, and he has had his final chance from me.

  349. Abulhaq says:

    Compared to the promoters of the scandalous great lie, ‘The Vow’ he’s a neophyte.
    I have a soft spot for the rogue, like me he’s a mash up ‘cosmopolitan’ and I suspect that in his premiership there’d be few dull moments. The possibility of his setting the cat among the Whitehall pigeons seems likely. Sit back, gloat, enjoy the show and collect the political dividends.
    An encounter between Salmond and Johnson would be rather cool.

  350. Scott says:

    Revs twitter feed.everyone should read it.

  351. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT. That Patrick Harvie really is an ignorant little misogynistic scrotum. He obviously hasn’t a clue about diversity nor sustainability. Opportunist wank.

    A step in the right direction, towards a feminist policy analysis

  352. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Patrick Harvie
    You’re already a busted-flush but the green movement can still be saved in Scotland, but only if opportunist fannies like you fuck right off.

    Integrating gender and social equality into sustainable development research
    A guidance note

  353. Dr Jim says:

    There won’t be a no deal Brexit say all the *journalists* because the parliament will hold a vote of no confidence and sack the next guy whoever that is or have a general election

    But that’s not quite correct though is it because whoever the next Prime Minister is (Boris) could offer the people of Northern Ireland after consultation with the Republic a reunification vote and if that resulted in Irish reunification the backstop problem fades away into obscurity and no deal could go ahead

    Some might say that sets a precedent for Scotland having the same option but no it doesn’t because we don’t live in a democracy, because if we did Scotland’s parliament wouldn’t need to obtain a permissive agreement from Westminster to pursue actual democracy and the Tories of whatever colour can go on saying NO till the end of time unless we go to court and have Scotland’s rights arbitrated upon by the rest of the world

    Other than that we send in the drones they’re so terrified of and bring England’s economy to a halt by bringing England to a halt, then we’ll be in Northern Ireland’s position and they’ll end up wanting rid of us too because we’re such a nuisance

    So where is this going, well I think in order to gain democracy in Scotland we have to find a way of being such a bloody nuisance the good people of England will end up voting to be rid of us pronto

  354. Luigi says:

    starlaw says:
    24 June, 2019 at 9:01 am
    Jeremy hunt at Peterhead with fish and chips plus can of Irn Bru … Bru had not been opened and not a seagull in sight, were the fish and chips fake.

    We need to better train the seagulls up there. They are normally pretty effective at targeting smartly dressed politicians. 🙂

  355. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Patrick Harvie
    Sex is not the same as gender, it is extremely unhelpful that you appear to conflate the two. Undermining womanhood, as you appear to want to do, undermines the potential for an inclusive, sustainable society. Your virtue-signaling only serves to undermine your stated objective and will hollow-out female support from the Green party.

    A Feminist Policy Analysis Framework


    Most policy analysis models, both inside and outside of social work, approach policy in a gender-neutral manner. This fact belies the many ways our society is organized around gender, which is often regulated through policy. This article outlines a model for looking at policies through a gendered lens by framing a set of questions to be asked in a feminist policy analysis. The complexities and underlying issues inherent in such a model are discussed, as well as the model’s implicit goals and values. The model provides an important framework for policy analysts and teaching students about policy.

    Key Words: Gender, feminist policy analysis, policy frameworks, gender lens, women and policy, policy analysis, women’s issues

  356. Bill Cochrane says:

    @Scott says 10:29

    Had just finished reading then moved to WOS and saw your post. What an excellent piece of writing and I commented as such.

    All points succinctly put and when reading I sensed a person in total control of his writing. I might wonder if this is a person who could (should) be at the front of the YES movement.

    Undoubtedly, a piece to get out there to be read by the more reasonable NO voters.

  357. Dr Jim says:

    Has anyone ever noticed that nearly all *Causes* attract professional activists from all over the place to join in these *Causes* whether they believe in them or not, and with these professional activists almost always comes some sort of physical or violent activity invariably involving the police lifting and laying and arresting people

    I could make quite a list of these *Causes* but we all know who and what they are and what they represent so I’ll not be insulting anyone’s intelligence by doing that

    There’s only one *Cause* that does not do this, nor does it attract unpleasant *followers* and it can put hundreds of thousand on our streets in support of it, and it’s Scottish Independence where no one ever gets arrested or lifted or moved on by the police ever, yet Scottish Independence is demonised the most as bad and divisive

  358. starlaw says:

    Luigi 11;10

    He widnae hae goat awawe wie yon in Ainster

  359. call me dave says:


    That Orkney News article is a good read.
    Brightened up a dour wet Monday in Glenrothes… add a touch of Murray/Lopez to the mixture and it makes a difference.

    Is the sun shining in the West yet?


    Radio 5 live Jacob. R. Mogg and the curtain twitcher neighbours wie the tumbler held up against the wall and the recorder going …is one way of saying… nothing to see here move along. 🙂

  360. jfngw says:

    Imagine a nation state where the government financed broadcaster spends time promoting and giving a platform to potential leaders of that nation, even giving them a platform to spout whatever lie they choose, that can only be selected by the party faithful.

    The choice for Scotland is the one that will ‘swat us out’ or the one that ‘will slap us down’. They talk to the Scots who like being in a box and squealing with delight that both potential leaders have longer nails to hammer into the box lid.

    To quote Neil Findlay ‘This would make make a pig vomit’, maybe he was having a Cameron moment. Labour and Tory ‘Like Sister And Brother’ (The Drifters).

  361. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Patrick Harvie
    Clue yourself up and stop undermining womanhood and the potential for social sustainability.

    Beyond Sex and Gender …?


    This article addresses the challenge that feminist critiques of sex and gender present for an ecofeminist strategy of affirming the materiality of bodies and earth. As a starting point for thinking about human embodiment, earth is taken to be a community of interconnected constituents, both human and other-than-human.

    The article presents an understanding of the material givenness of earth and bodies as at any moment in transformation: as the matter of interrelationships between a plurality of earth constituents. It is argued that a notion of the agency of the material given can underpin an ecological feminist thinking of sexed embodiment that need not be essentialist.

    Read critically both science and certain traditions of spirituality suggest modes of knowing that offer only partial access to the material given. The emphasis on the material given is not a return to a pre-feminist understanding of the ‘naturalness’ of sex and gender, justly criticized by many feminist theorists. Rather it is a turn towards earth necessary for an ecological feminist politics engaged with the mutual flourishing of women and earth. This ‘turn’ affirms a feminist deconstruction of the categories of sex and gender in the context of a reaffirmation of sexed bodies produced as part of the material given.

  362. call me dave says:

    Back again:

    I don’t like cricket , I love it! (good song that)

    I like Geoffrey Boycott too when he’s talking cricket and he is pretty blunt in his criticism when it’s due to the players.

    On other matters … what a Brit Nat English plonker and did he not have a Boris problem with an acquaintance too… 🙁
    The Independent: 11th November 1998:

    GEOFFREY BOYCOTT was found guilty of assault for a second time yesterday when a French judge decided that the former England opening batsman had made a brutal attack on his girlfriend in an Antibes hotel two years ago. He was fined pounds 5,300 and given a three months suspended jail sentence.

  363. Cubby says:


    As you are obviously keen on healthy debate. I wonder why in a post upthread I asked you did you find Callachans comments acceptable and how would you describe them you chose not to respond. Cubby@23 June1.09pm

    Mr McBoxheid you are in danger of being seen as a Callachan minion.

  364. Cubby says:



    50% of Scots are out of the box that Westminster wants to keep firmly closed.

    Now that the box is open more Scots are peeking out over the top of the box to see what it is like outside the box ( it’s great by the way).

    The hardcore Britnats are shouting close the lid of the box I love it in the dark.

  365. Dan says:

    @call me dave at 11:51 am

    Scotland would be best to boycott the Union, then Geoff would be liberated from the complexities of discussing politics.
    He can then go back to concentrating on his England (aka Wazzockstan) cricket team, in the hope that from their 50 million population they can find better players than they can politicians…

  366. galamcennalath says:

    heraldnomore says:

    Quoting from above …

    ” Mundell …. announced the opening of new offices for the UK in Scotland, with the proposal to hire 2900 civil servants. “

    To put that number in context I found this ….

    ” In Q1 2018, there were 42,300 people employed as civil servants in Scotland. This is made up of 17,400 (41.1%) people working in the devolved civil service and 24,900 (58.9%) working in UK government departments. “

    ( )

    2900 is a large number, especially since they are apparently to be located in one building. That implies a ‘central function’. It’s a large number compared to those who are in the devolved sections.

    This is something we should be hearing a lot more about!

  367. John H. says:

    Scott says:
    24 June, 2019 at 10:49 am


    If Scotland were independent now, would you vote to join in a union with England.

    I asked that question constantly when canvassing in 2014. Not once was I told that Scotland should give up her freedom.

  368. Welsh Sion says:

    callmedave @ 11.51 am

    Re: Boycs.

    He was also cited as a hero by the Maybot. (Mulish perseverance and intransigence in the face of impossible odds whilst getting colleagues out, was the usual comment.)

  369. call me dave says:

    @Welsh Sion

    Aye! Many times it was yes…err..No! Other player run out as
    Geoffrey grinds out another 100. 🙂 Looking out for No1.

    Saw all the ‘tests’ on the black and white TV in the day starting off as far back as Keith Millar etal….all the way through till the 1980s. Radio 4 on at work then a pleasure to listen to. 🙂

    Now…can’t be ars*d.

  370. geeo says:

    Breeks @9.05am.

    Is that you started another ‘countdown’ to doom ?

    March 29th passed without ukexit, the Sky never fell down and Chicken Licken was reportedly unharmed.

    October 31st is the new false dawn.

    Unless the Buffoon (if he wins) calls an election and wins a majority of No dealer MP’s by deselecting the tory remainers, then the chances are WM will seek another extension.

    Of course, the real reason for such an extension, is likelier to be to compress the window for indyref 2 before the next Holyrood Election.

    That is the over riding concern about ukexit for WM, losing Scotlands vast resources.

    The People darn sarf might be happy to lose the union to ensure ukexit, but the tory WM Government, (and labour) KNOW the catastrophic damage of losing Scots revenues will be.

    And that is more important to them than ukexit in such a way that makes ending the Union Treaty inevitable.

    Delays to ukexit are more about the Scottish indy issue than anything else in my opinion.

    If Oct 31st is a set in stone leave date by ‘legal default’ as we are being told, then why was March 29th not afforded the same default status ?

    Why did the WM gov not leave in March ?

    Boris Johnson of Hunt in charge will make no difference considering the Parliamentary arithmetic, compared to March.

    Even a new EU ref will serve no purpose, as, if the vote is Leave again, there will STILL not be the numbers to vote it through parliament without a deal.

    Which leaves a GE if they can engineer that (fixed term parliament Act restrictions).

    What if said GE returns another hung parliament ?

    The only 2 clear paths to no deal, are obvious.

    1. A GE returning a Tory majority with remain tories deselected before said GE.

    2. The EU decide enough is enough and veto any further extension. (France were against the current extension but conceded the point after intensive talks within the EU leaders, so it may be a tough ask expecting France to agree to a further extension.

    Oct 31st is certainly not the end of the road, not by any means.

    As a wee footnote, in the referendum framework Bill recently presented at Holyrood, there was provision to advance legislation expediently should circumstances dictate the need to do so.

    A bill can be whizzed through Holyrood pretty sharpish if required.

    A point made on here in retort to ‘Rock’ (remember him) when he used to rinse repeat his “snap brexit catching out Nicola Sturgeon” patter.

    Oct 31 is only the end of the road if the EU say enough is enough, as i doubt there is time for an engineered GE before then.

    I have said for some time now, when things indy related need to move, they will move very quickly.

    I stand by that view, and includes how things will move in relation to Scotland and the EU.

  371. McBoxheid says:

    Cubby says:
    24 June, 2019 at 12:07 pm


    As you are obviously keen on healthy debate. I wonder why in a post upthread I asked you did you find Callachans comments acceptable and how would you describe them you chose not to respond. Cubby@23 June1.09pm

    Mr McBoxheid you are in danger of being seen as a Callachan minion.

    I thought I had made myself clear in my earlier reply to you and missed your further post.
    I do not think that Callachans comments are acceptable as they stand.
    I would describe them as unacceptable without evidence to the contrary.
    Cubby, I missed your post, but you think that makes me in danger of being seen as a Callachan minion, whatever that is. It seems that you are playing childish games and resorting to name calling. If I see another case which backs my argument I will mention it to back that argument.

    I do not know Terry Callachan personally and I never even knew he had a collection of minions. Its bad enough being subjugated to Westminster rule. I don’t need to seek out others to subjugate myself to, thanks very much.

  372. geeo says:


    What evidence do you think would ever make Callachans anti english bigotry ‘acceptable’ ?

    Do you believe it is unacceptable or not ?

    For clarity, unacceptable in this context means IN ANY circumstances.

    When you condemn something then immediately add caveats, you are not actually condemning it, you are merely waiting to defend it later.

    Cubby is right to press you for a definitive condemnation of Callachans anti english bigotry.

    No caveats, do you unequivically denounce it ?

  373. Dorothy Devine says:

    weather forecast from Glasgow dinging doon and unlikely to stop.

  374. McBoxheid says:

    geeo says:
    24 June, 2019 at 2:22 pm


    What evidence do you think would ever make Callachans anti english bigotry ‘acceptable’ ?

    Do you believe it is unacceptable or not ?

    For clarity, unacceptable in this context means IN ANY circumstances.

    When you condemn something then immediately add caveats, you are not actually condemning it, you are merely waiting to defend it later.

    Cubby is right to press you for a definitive condemnation of Callachans anti english bigotry.

    No caveats, do you unequivically denounce it ?
    As far as I know, Geeo, Callachan was calling someone a drug and alcohol abuser. Of cause that is not acceptable, unless he has proof. Do you know that he doesn’t? Nothing I saw in the example I quoted even mentioned anti-englishness AFAIK. I was merely using as an example. I don’t read every post on here. I don’t know why I should answer for his percieved predjudices to you or anyone else. I personally find racial, religious or any other type of abuse out of order. Including the badgering that seems to come from certain quarters, of anyone that is of a different opinion of how independence is to be achieved.
    You have obviously not understood my posts in the slightest. That’s not my fault.

  375. geeo says:


    “As far as I know, Geeo, Callachan was calling someone a drug and alcohol abuser. Of cause that is not acceptable, unless he has proof. Do you know that he doesn’t”?

    Wow…so you think it is acceptable for someone on here to publically berate a poster for drug and alcohol abuse issues, as long as they have proof ?

    And there is your caveat again.

    Well, that says all we need know about YOU.

    And YES i absolutely know for 100% fact he has NO PROOF of his claims.

    He was talking about me.

    He does not know me in any way so any assertions made are invented for the sole purpose to be abusive.

    His abuse was reported along with reasons why it was highly offensive, for the blog owner to deal with as he felt fit.

    People like callachan always fuck up in the end.

    Many abusive posters have found out they are not beyond reproach on here.

    Many thought they were clever, just staying on the right side of the line, (Rock being best example) but they will always try push the abuse to far and then are warned then banned if they do not take heed of the warning.

    Stu has banned several regular posters on here as well, even if they were ‘only’ reacting badly to idiots winding them up, but if you are patient, take your punishment, Stu will give you a 2nd chance to continue posting.

    Most likely flounce off butthurt at being banned, others take their medicine, wait then return once Stu is convinced they will behave in future.

    How do i know this is the case ?

    I got a (deserved) short ban a while ago for losing my temper with some folk, served my punishment and returned.

    If anyone does not like my posts, feel free to report them, but that is a 2 way street.

    There is a huge difference between telling someone tgey are talking shite, and accusing them of being drug and alcohol abusers which crosses the line into personal abuse.

    On a blog where the owner has taken legal action against a politician making untrue and defamatory slurs on his character, it seems unwise for posters btl to indulge in similair behaviours and making potentially actionable smears against folk.

  376. Cubby says:


    The film, primarily aimed at children but also enjoyed by adults, called Despicable Me and subsequent follow up films, features a despicable character who is supported by his minions. Therefore you are correct it is a childish comment since it refers to a children’s film. I thought most people would understand the joke but sometimes it doesn’t work.

    Anyway glad to have helped increase your knowledge of popular culture. Also pleased to hear that you are not a supporter of Callachan’s anti English bigotry, do not like any personal abuse or name calling and are all for healthy debate.

    I do notice that you have attracted Geeo’s attention. He also likes healthy debate but probably in a more direct way than yourself. Good luck.

  377. Col.Blimp IV says:


    “.Remember Jim Murphy!”

    How could we forget?

  378. Brian Doonthetoon says:


    This judging of other commenters input is becoming tedious.

    T. Callachan has one opinion. He feels that immigrants in Scotland who moved from England shouldn’t be allowed to vote in an independence referendum, because their loyalty to their adopted residence, or their birth home, can be questioned.

    I don’t agree with his opinion. I’ve met many “English Scots for Yes” at various rallies.

    However, we are btl here, and opinions should be debated without scattering the “bigotry” word all over the page.

    It seems to raise its head on every page, after 18 hours or so.

    From the Oxford Dictionary:-

    mass noun
    Intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.

    So, we have to ask, who is displaying “bigotry”? Who is displaying “Intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself”?

  379. geeo says:

    @BDDT 7.51pm

    Thats an odd argument

    Is it REALLY being bigoted if you are calling out what could be construed as Hate Speech ?

    I also have a dictionary.

    hate speech


    abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

    Kinda hard to call out potentially ILLEGAL behaviour (hate speech) if doing so is construed as bigotry.

  380. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    OK, geeo.

    Paste some examples of “hate speech” that you have come across btl.

  381. Cubby says:


    Sorry Brian he has said all English born should not be allowed to vote. In previous posts he has also extended it to others not born in Scotland. Blood and soil nationalism. My son according to Callachan who was born in England, lived there for 2 years and the rest of his life in Scotland would not be allowed a vote if Callachan had his way. He is as Scottish as anyone and wants Scottish independence.

    This has been ” debated” with Callachan some time ago. He also fabricates figures to try and boost his POV. Had enough of lying from Britnats. If he is an independence supporter then he is just doing what the Britnats do – lie to try and get their own way. I will call it out. If that bothers you then sorry. I provided a definition of racism and Callachan fits the bill. So, if you want, I will stop calling him a bigot and stick to racist. Callachan’s approach takes us down a dark road. It also fits perfectly well for the media to claim independence supporters are all anti English.

    It is not a POV it is racism. No better than anti Irish or anti Scots or anti Welsh racism. He does a disservice to the cause of creating a decent independent Scotland.

    Happy to hold my hand up to acknowledge my intolerance to racism from any source – particularly independence supporters because I expect better from them. Inclusion not exclusion.

  382. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Cubby + geeeo.

    I have stuck on my “pedant hat” here.

    geeo mentioned “abusive or threatening speech or writing” so I checked the definitions.


    Extremely offensive and insulting.

    Engaging in or characterized by habitual violence and cruelty.

    Involving injustice or illegality.”



    Having a hostile or deliberately frightening quality or manner.

    Law (of behaviour) showing an intention to cause bodily harm.
    Causing someone to feel vulnerable or at risk.”

    I don’t believe T. Callachan has posted anything that could be construed as either of these definitions.

    Some contributors on here have a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION with T. Callachan.
    Either debate that DIFFERENCE OF OPINION or bow out.

    Don’t just repeat the same accusations of “bigotry”.

  383. geeo says:


    Callachan has posted anti english bigotry numerous times on here, which everyone knows about.

    Why the fuck would i indulge your demand for me to provide quotes ?

    I have nothing to prove to you, its all out there.

    Did you know Terry Callachan used to post as Terence Callachan, can you guess what ‘Terence’ was reported and blocked for ?

    Always like a good laugh at people who will do ANYTHING, even defend RACIST BIGOTS just because they dislike the people calling it out.

    Its pretty pathetic.

  384. geeo says:

    BDDT @ 8.46pm

    Thats not being pedantic, that is a sad and tragic attempt to justify racism, bigotry and hate speech.

    Dont waste your time being ‘more pedantic’ you bigot sympathiser.

  385. Dan says:

    @BDTT at 7.51pm

    Aye, its becoming suspiciously relentless and if you try to point out the tedious nature of what they are doing just one solitary time, they’ll virtually instantly engage and try to tarnish you with being an apologists for something or other.
    Both geeo and Cubby have tried to have a go at me for incorrect reasons and assumptions. Both are imo far too easily triggered and reactionary, often jumping to conclusions too quickly then covering it off when rebuked by saying they are debating, but “the debate” just drags the thread to an OCD ping pong someone claiming the last word victory, when the reality is most folk with any self awareness bow out early because they realise it doesn’t read well to folk reading in.
    Ha ha, a quick page refresh and in the time it has taken me to write this post we’re into the second set of ping pong…

  386. Cubby says:


    I have mentioned on a fair number of occasions that I do not like being lumped in a post with other posters. Please respect this. You are treating Geeo and I as if we are one and the same person – conflating our comments.

    I have nothing against Geeo but we are different people. I believe your post at 8.46pm should have been addressed to Geeo alone. I did not post anything about threatening.

    Callachan started the offensive personal comments to me. I have previously said that a failing I have is that I hold grudges if people post personally abusive comments to me and do not apologise. I hold my hands up to that.

    Just as Callachan has the free speech to peddle his racism I have free speech to call him out on it.

    I won’t be following your demand to bow out. I am sorry you feel you have the right to tell me to bow out.

    I think I explained my position in my post to you of 8.30pm above.

  387. Cubby says:


    sorry Dan but I had no contact with you until you had a go at me in the first instance. I asked some pertinent questions and you disappeared. Now you have another go at me while at the same time lumping me in with Geeo.

    Your approach is – jump in – criticise and then disappear. Yeh that’s really debating.

  388. geeo says:

    @Dan @9.06pm.

    Looks like you are jumping in to have a go at other posters to me.

    Also looks like you are conflating comments from Me and Cubby as if we are the same person.

    As Cubby just said, we may not suffer fools gladly and call out bullshitters and bigots, amongst other nasty insidious stuff, but that does not make us as one.

    I personally would love you or anyone else to point to ANY post where i am stating someone is posting abusive, racist, bigoted etc pish, that i claim to be “debating” with them ?

    Not sure who you are thinking of, but sure ain’t me.

    Now to you, Dan.

    You jump into a discussion to berate 2 posters for voicing their views, and instantly act as if they have no right to voice said views.

    Me and Cubby may indeed be too forthright for your clearly tender sensibilities (except you like to fire back with unwarranted, off topic accusations) and i am absolutely more forthcoming with my rather more blunt approach, but we never indulge in Racist, Bigoted, Sectarian language on Wings, not ever.

    Yet here YOU are, and BDDT, attacking 2 posters who call out a known racist bigot while at the same time, attempting to justify his behaviour.

    You then have the cheek to try play the victim.

    Away shite pal.

  389. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Och, eh gie up.

    There are some on here want to promote the “bigotry” argument ad infitum. Some of us are content to discuss the opinions.

    If you can’t see the difference between “bigotry” and “difference of opinion” then there’s no point in carrying on the debate.

    Eh thank you, good night.

  390. Cubby says:


    I think you can now see that Geeo and I have different styles of posting. If you want to criticise me or even praise me please address it to me. I will do the same for you as I NEVER want to attribute someone else comments to you. That would not be fair would it.

  391. Cubby says:


    Brian, I was sorry to read your post. It has reduced my respect for you. I took the trouble once again to lay out my thoughts at 8.30pm and 9.08pm after you once again raised the subject but you then studiously ignored what I said.

  392. Cubby says:


    No offence to you but I am getting really pissed of at posters referring to both of us as if we are one. Similarly posters lumping me in with a range of other posters in a comment.

    More importantly I am saddened by the fact that some Independence supporters seem not to care about Callachan and his blood and soil nationalism. On a personal level not one has ever explained specifically why my son should be deprived of a vote just because he spent his first 2 years of his life in England.

    Very very disappointing.

  393. geeo says:

    @Cubby, no offence taken, why would there be ?

    You cannot get an answer, because those people have no answers to even the simplest of questions.

    I am equally saddened to see the existence of blood and soil nationalists in the indy movement, although statistically, it is inevitable.

    Maybe more disappointing to see it on here.

  394. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Cubby.

    I obviously missed the post where T. Callachan mentioned extending the ban on referendum voting to other nationalities.

    This wee exchange got me thinking though; are all the commenters on here, who advocate a 5 year residency qualification, guilty of displaying ‘blood and soil nationalism’?

  395. Cubby says:



    I do not have a problem with an agreed residency time limit that is reasonable. In fact I have often also posted agreeing that there are problems with election fraud that should be tightened up.

    I do not have a problem with answering your question but I have posed many questions above that you and others have chosen to blank. The main one – why should my son not get a vote under Callachans laws. My son is now an adult, the first 2 years of his life in England the remainder in Scotland. He is Scottish. Under Callachan’s only getting a vote if born in Scotland he does not get to vote for Scotland’s independence.

    IMO a residency qualification time period is not the same as a complete permanent ban on English born or not born in Scotland. So therefore 5 year residency is not IMO blood and soil nationalism. Please note that I am not saying I agree with a 5 year period but I understand some of the reasons behind it. I certainly think 10 years is too long. Also does it have to be 5 years continuous?

    I think I addressed your question. Care to reciprocate?

  396. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Cubby.

    I don’t think “Callachans laws” have any chance of being adopted. After all, they’re only one person’s opinion. I agree with what you typed last night – to single out “English born” smells of racism, rather than bigotry.

  397. Dan says:

    Cubby says: at 9:21 pm

    Your approach is – jump in – criticise and then disappear.

    geeo says: at 9:30 pm

    Looks like you are jumping in to have a go at other posters to me.

    Yawn, I wrote one solitary post a couple of weeks or so back to point out that rather than the two of you dragging nearly every other thread into the same tedious narrow and repetitive discussion, you could just report the offending posts to Stu and let him decide if action is required, which would resolve the situation rather than the perpetual situation we seem to be stuck with.
    That’s not “having a go” at either of you, It was merely a suggestion but you’re both so quick to flip from being the site’s tough SJWs to thin skinned victims that you try to pathetically make it out as a personal attack.

    There was a SG consultation on the future voting franchise which one has to presume was held because there are indeed a range of different opinions on the subject that needed heard and considered.
    And give up with yer pish trying to sleekitly infer some folks on here are ethnic nationalists, racists, bigoted hate speakers, or apologists for them, step up and name the specific people you are aiming those accusations at so they as individuals can respond to your baiting.
    And FYI I’ve worked my butt off attending meetings and going round the numerous EU Nationals in my area to help inform them of settlement status scheme and getting them registered to vote. I had to do that on an individual level because none of the local political parties seem bothered enough to do it.

  398. Cubby says:


    Brian thanks for the curtesy of a reply. I do try to be civil in my communications. Particularly if people are civil in return.

    I agree Callachans preference will not be implemented. I am sure he knows that as well. The only way (I can think of) would be for everyone to take along their birth certificate and this would also affect the practicalities of postal voting.

    So the question that remains is why does he KEEP posting this POV? He has expressed his opinion – good for him – I believe it is a racist opinion. Why post false/ inflated figures for the number of English born people resident in Scotland? Why post that the numbers are growing higher at an increasing rate? Now all this plays into the Britnat media proposition that independence supporters are all English haters. If you are an independence supporter why do all this? What is to be gained? Therein lies the suspicion he is a phoney independence supporter. Why conflate a period of residency with English/foreign born. The two are completely different.

    These points have been put to Callachan in the past and he first of all ignored them and then after being asked again he got abusive.

    I am glad that you agree that my son should not be deprived of his vote in an independence referendum.

    Excluding people from voting because you don’t like how they vote is a road to disaster.( ps I am not saying that is your opinion – just a general point).

  399. geeo says:

    Now we have a Scottish tax code, surely anyone resident in Scotland and eligible to pay Scottish income tax, has the right to vote in Scotland ?

    Its a hard circle to square telling people we will be taxing them but not allowing them to decide WHO taxes them and how they will be taxed.

    Also, although obviously hoping indy overtakes this point, immigration can fairly easily be devolved to Holyrood, by giving migrants a Scottish tax code only, they couldn’t simply rush south to work as their Scottish tax code would preclude them from doing so, coupled with other methods to avoid abuses of such a system.

    With an impending indy Scotland, it would be in WM’s interests to hand over control of immigration to Holyrood now, as post Yes vote, and taking control of immigration anyway, better to have at least some cross border immigration control already in place.

    The idea of no taxation without representation is a strong ideal in my opinion.

    Unless of course, we tell migrants that because they cannot vote for a period of time, they will not be (income) taxed during that period.

    That would be a reasonable compromise in my view.

  400. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi geeo at 1:26 pm.

    You typed,

    Now we have a Scottish tax code, surely anyone resident in Scotland and eligible to pay Scottish income tax, has the right to vote in Scotland ?

    Also, although obviously hoping indy overtakes this point, immigration can fairly easily be devolved to Holyrood, by giving migrants a Scottish tax code only, they couldn’t simply rush south to work as their Scottish tax code would preclude them from doing so, coupled with other methods to avoid abuses of such a system.

    The idea of no taxation without representation is a strong ideal in my opinion.

    Those are a couple of good points, geeo.

  401. geeo says:

    Thanks BDDT, i have my moments 🙂

  402. Cubby says:


    Dan Dan where to start.

    1. I’ll start on a positive note. I commend you for your stated actions at the end of your post re foreign nationals.

    2. Cubby @24 June 9.41pm in this post I politely asked you if you would not post comments that include me and others as it conflates things. I also said I find it annoying and insulting. Once again your post does exactly what I asked you not to do as a matter of curtesy and clarity. Therefore you have jumbled up comments made by myself and Geeo and confused who you are referring to.

    3. ” sleekitly infer that some folk on here are ethnic Nationalists ” I did no such thing. Perhaps you were referring to Geeo. Who knows in your confusing post. I have said quite clearly on numerous occasions that Callachan is a racist and a blood and soil Nationalist. Nothing sleekitly about it. He in turn has responded.

    4. ” the sites tough SJWs” no idea what this means but based on the rest of the paragraph it is part of I very much doubt it is complimentary. So another attack on me. Dan all you have done is attack me from your first post.

    5. You in your first post wanted me to desist from attacking Callachan and just report him. Fiirst of all Geeo said in a post he had already been banned as Terence Callachan and had now resurfaced as Terry Callachan. So other people have done that previously. I responded to you and said I do not report people. That is my approach. Nothing stopping you Reporting Callachan is there Dan. So perhaps instead of telling me what to do you could have reported Callachan yourself.

    In summary, I do not see why you have gone down this road Dan. The option for you to take the matter to the site owner was always there. No need to attack me twice. As I said before, as a matter of manners and avoiding confusion, I would be grateful if you did not conflate my posts with others.

  403. Cubby says:


    Good post. That is part of the reason I am not in favour of a lengthy residency period before bring allowed to vote.

  404. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. “settled status” and the human rights of resident nationals. All those who live permanently in Scotland enjoy a legal identity particular to the EU, which provides protection for a range of rights. These rights will most probably vanish for all of us, along with their constitutional legal (EU) protection, thanks to the full-English Brexit.

    Briefing: Brexit, settled status and citizens’ rights – what has been agreed?

    On 19 March the European Union and the UK published the impressively named Draft Agreement on the Withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community. In other words, a draft Brexit divorce agreement.

    This blog post will focus on Part Two of the “Draft Agreement” (the shortened, and less intimidating, term I’m going to use) which concerns the protection of EU citizens in the UK and reciprocal rights for UK nationals living in the EU. All of this text is highlighted in green in the document issued by the negotiating teams, meaning that it has been fully agreed.

    As we are constantly being told, “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”, but the Draft Agreement does at least give us the best clarity on EU citizens’ rights that we have had to date. This deal confirms what EU citizens in the UK should expect now and throughout the transitional phase beginning on 29 March 2019, and what they will be required to do to ensure they can continue to lawfully reside in the UK after transition ends on 31 December 2020….

  405. Cactus says:

    Q. Will Cairnstoon be back later this here Saturday morning…

    Here’s a perfect one


  406. Cactus says:

    Looking forward to today everybuddy, ahm gonane be heading back into the Indy Live Radio studios later to link up with the groovyness in fair ye be fine Ayr

    If ye fancy a song, come yerself on and say hi

    The game remains the same:

    Hear ye at high noon folks

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