The formerly bonnie banks
Posted on
July 29, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
There’s been a small furore this week over fracking, and the possibility that the UK government could grant licences for drilling in some of Scotland’s most beautiful locations, including – astonishingly – Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National Park.
But in fairness, we can’t say that we weren’t warned.
Dear Mr Cameron.
Frack Off!
Was this not one of Ian Taylors alleged benefits for a cheeky wee donation?
It would run completely contrary to the Conservative’s ethics and worldview to oppose fracking. The Greenpeace mash up is not so far from the truth. Everything is exploitable so everything should be exploited for the benefit of the elite.
My own anecdotal evidence points me to think there are vast untapped reserves of Scots believed previously by the Yes campaign to be hard to reach for whom the idea of fracking is absolutely abhorrent and with a little effort and the right technology could be extracted from their previously unreachable strata.
Time for Alex to rule it out and tap this rich seam of Yes support. I could get all passionate about it but in an oil and gas rich country like ours, it is a no – brainer.
Scots in general hate fracking- it feels like the worst kind of short termism and a betrayal of the land. The French have ruled it out and with good reason.
Eh! a bit too close to the imperialists toys for comfort, bit too near Faslane and Coulport for my liking!
WOW!
I never knew David Cameron cared so much about those less deserving than himself. I’m now having serious doubts about voting YES. I mean with a man like this at the helm of this great country of ours where can we possibly go wrong? 😀
The anxiety is our SNP administration might not be as set against fracking as the rest of us. Pylon lines, windfarms in beauty spots don’t offer much comfort.
The hope must be that they delay any fracking projects for later debate, soon as a Yes vote is recorded as signed and sealed.
Scots in general hate fracking- it feels like the worst kind of short termism and a betrayal of the land. The French have ruled it out and with good reason.
Not this one. National parks mean nothing to these guys but fracking drilling and production is safe, unless you know of any dangers and it doesn’t cause earth quakes either. There’s two Fracking issues that matter, green house gas pollution and who gets the profits?
They can all frack aff. We don’t want or need it. Pollution and earthquakes, so as to make Cameron and his cronies wealthier, no thanks.
Also the snide git has been up to more shenanigans…
Cameron nuclear deal behind parliaments back
theguardian.com/world/defence-and-security-blog/2014/jul/29/nuclear-weapons-us-uk-cooperation
Fracking in Scotland could be the start of a Norwegian style Scots oil fund, if it’s Yes. Who owns Scotland’s mineral rights now and who will own it after independence.
Energy security is any western governments prime concern. This comes as no surprise and it’s not just Scotland that will feel it. Westminster considers the UK landmass to be theirs to plunder in the name of the national good. The ‘national good’ is a term used to hide the fact that the politicians don’t care a jot where the enery comes from, so long as it’s theirs to tax. There is a palpable worry in the corridors of power that rUK could be left without an oil industry after September. Fracking is the next cash cow and it’s being taken a lot more seriously now.
Will Scotland’s future energy requirement demand fracking? Some how I doubt it.
Ian Taylor, its chief executive, who has donated around £550,000 to the Conservatives, was a guest at an intimate dinner party with David Cameron in his Downing Street flat last November. Weeks after the private dinner – for people who had donated more than £50,000 to the Tories – it emerged that Vitol had supplied oil to rebels in Libya. The revelation prompted suggestions the deal had been brokered by the Foreign Office, a claim comprehensively rejected by Vito.
link to theguardian.com
Despite knowing how awful the Tories are, I really didn’t see this dictatorial attitude coming.
I believe that now would be a good time to tighten the planning laws!
You got to wonder how far ordinary folk can be pushed.
This will backfire big time, I was speaking with two people today who up until the fracking announcement were certain no’s, now they are reconsidering and starting to ask a few more questions than they had been before. YES needs to go big on this, I think this might be a ‘red line’ issue for a lot of people.
Stellar bit of editing by the GP media team! I did some work with them a few years back, great bunch of people.
SNP seem a bit relaxed about Fracking. I’m not. If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend watching the film “Gasland” – it’s about the experience of small farmers and landowners in the US who were initially very keen to take the energy companies money, but whose lives turned into nightmares when gas and fracking chemicals polluted their water supplies. It’s literally killing them, but the contracts they signed give them no recourse. The politicians have all been bought off by the oil and gas companies.
Are there not different laws in Scotland compared to England and Wales over who owns the land (and whats under it). Also in Scotland do we have more rights to petition the council/government etc to not permit fracking near where you live? Or is that just something I’ve made up. If anyone knows it’d be a great help.
Cheers
I was looking for a bio of Ian Taylor, that I posted some months back. Unfortunately I couldn’t find it, but it was linked to the site of an international fossil fuels convention earlier this year. Vitol were all over the three day event, much of which was concerned with the future for unconventional extraction, such as fracking.
Talking about energy security, where are rUK’s uranium mines?
This is worth watching it’s called gasland.#
link to tinyurl.com
Murdoch clan on BBC 1
Superb!
O/T I see on Scotland 2014, currently running out a Scottish guilt trip regarding Scotland’s part in the slave trade
Completely ignoring of course the lesser known fact that Scot’s themselves were sold into slavery by English courts!
Scot’s POW’s captured during Cromwell and later the 1715 and 1745 uprisings were sentenced mostly at Preston goal to servitude in the colonies (source : Ancestry & ‘Red Legs of Barbados’)
Heedtracker
Regardless of my views or yours on fracking, it is something which resonates with many in the public outwith your traditional green voters. My colleague at work today was speaking to his parents, previously staunch No having serious doubts where none had existed before over fracking.
I don’t think any Yes voter would turn to No because of a strong SNP opposition to fracking. It would turn these 2 No voters to Yes and a good many other voters besides. Regardless of the morality, effectiveness, pollution of our water or need for fracking; ignoring the debate on it I think it is an area the SNP should be using to pick up Yes votes.
There’s a lot of oil and gas fracking done already out at sea. Perhaps that’s the best place for it.
I’m not saying this as a pro-fracking argument, or anything …. but it is worth noting we in Scotland get our drinking water from the clouds, while in the US they often get it from boreholes. Boring for drinkwater and gas in the same general areas seems nuts!
Vote NO and it will happen. You may delay it but that is all.
Vote YES and heaven help a Scottish government that tries to push cracking through.
This example highlights the difference in governance with Independence. Why would a nation with 25percent of Europe’s renewable potential put it’s citizens at risk?
Fracking bloody auto correct
We are getting Fracked whatever way the referendum vote swings, question is will the future Scottish Gov stop it or jump on the ££ wagon, personally i think we will get Fracked either way, they will be on the ££ wagon.
Nicola said we would be a Whole £70 better of with our fuel bills yearly, ppft a quid odds per week, SNP need to up their game, quick
Tan Jardine, I totally agree with you, although I heard AS say last year that our energy rich country does not need fracking. Can’t find the actual quote though but I think the Scottish government are against it.
@heedtracker says: 29 July, 2014 at 10:30 pm:
“Unless you know of any dangers and it doesn’t cause earth quakes either.”
Well it does cause earthquakes and there’s that little matter of poisoning the groundwater with the chemicals used. A danger certainly proven to be very real in the USA.
Furthermore, the Scottish seams are broken and tilted in every which way. That was the reasaon the pits at Glenrithes were a white Elephant and the reason for the mines under the Forth flooding. No one is quite sure where all the fractures and faults are.
Coulport is being sized up as a nuclear dump so a wee bit of fracking here or there when I’m sitting on my throne which straddles the highland fault line will not cause the Unionists any sleepless nights.
One day there is going to be an amazing fireworks display in Helensburgh. Pity none of the locals will see it.
Bruce Wallace
I have no knowledge of the Scottish Government making any supportive statement about fracking. Perhaps you can provide something
SG’s view:
link to snp.org
[…] « The formerly bonnie banks […]
“In considering such proposals it is important that the views of the local communities, and the impact on the environment are given due consideration in the planning process. Today’s announcement of a strengthening of the planning rules in relation to unconventional oil and gas, through provision of buffer zones, highlights that this government listens to local communities and the those calling for stronger environmental protection…..
“There are no environmental permissions which would allow hydraulic fracturing (fracking) in Scotland at this time.”
link to news.scotland.gov.uk
The only way to continue and possibly enhance such protection, is to vote Yes. I am normally pro-development, but I just don’t see the compelling need to develop an experimental technology (onshore).
The fracking centre of the UK is based in the North and especially the NE.
This reserve could possibly also extend out into the North Sea, quite conveniently the area which was given to England by Donald Dewar?
Scottish Skier might know more?
In view of our oil and gas supplies plus renewables, I doubt whether a future Scottish Government would be in any great hurry to push fracking. It seems obvious to me that Cameron’s move is based on two simple things……first, he will no longer have Scottish oil and second, he might have to face the consequences of economic sanctions on Russia ie their ability to hurt gas supplies.
Tam Jardine, I’m public too you know. Fracking is as dangerous as coal mining was to the central belt, subsidence maybe.
Alarmist public perceptions over fracking are way over the top but again, the real issues are who owns fracking energy and what about greenhouse gas emissions. I watched William Rees Mogg on C4 news yesterday bullshit the fracking opposition that fracking means cheaper energy for you and me but it wont.
Scots fracked gas prices will be controlled by dudes like Ian Taylor and Vitol. Its cheap to produce but they’ll make us pay just as much as we pay for gas now and all because he has Westminster in his donor pockets. So its up to Scotland and then Holyrood, if we win.
Very funny editing,but on the fracking,why do they announce the info right before the referendum?
I think it means to say, “Scotland,this is your chance to get out now,because this is what IS going to happen after a no victory.
Don’t bleat that we never told you about it,we keep the Trident system in the same place,so you can see we don’t care what happens there. Its no oor backyard.”
Scotland won’t see a penny of any revenues from this. The licencing fees will go to Westminster and the taxes on production will go to Westminster. All Scotland will get is more cuts to the Block grant. Poison our nation for eff all in return. Shut up Scotland and do as you’re told.
Commneteer Bruce Wallace above, made the same comment yesterday on WOS claiming Nicola Sturgeon had said at her excellent appearance at the GLO Centre in Motherwell YES meeting that fracking would take place in an independent Scotland. Nicola said no such thing and she has no power whatsoever to decide what will happen in an independent Scotland. It will be up to the electorate to decide government policy, not someone at a YES Scotland public meeting.
There’s a great caption competition on Cameron’s expression in the video still. My take on it is – “……..shit, my BT campaign is running out of lies….every time I come up with a new one, they fucking find out…….my pals in the press are bloody useless….”
Mark J
I emailed all my MSPs as part of a general anti fracking campaign.
Alison Johnstone of the Greens had filed a motion in parliament against it and Neil Findlay of labour had signed the motion. The conservative guy wrote a long pro fracking piece back to me which I thought was incredibly well informed, until I discovered he had lifted it wholesale from the DEFRA website. I called him on it and he never got back in touch!
I think the SNP response was noncommittal but can’t find my email back. Was fired up about it then the referendum took over.
Funny thing about it – I started getting Gmail adverts for drilling contractors as if I were considering doing a bit of the ol’ fracking myself. Don’t think the neighbours would be too happy!
link to secure.greenpeace.org.uk
galamcennalath said:There’s a lot of oil and gas fracking done already out at sea. Perhaps that’s the best place for it.
There a lot of fracking been done inland too. Of the 2000 or so onshore oil and gas wells in the UK about 200 have already been fracked.
Has anyone noticed?
You can check whether the constituency you live in has had a license issued for oil and gas exploration – link to greenpeace.org.uk
“Last year Mayor of London Boris Johnson said: “if reserves of shale can be exploited in London we should leave no stone unturned, or unfracked, in the cause of keeping the lights on.”
if
Wonder why INEOS wanted large holding tank and processing facilities for Grangemouth? They intend paying a lot of money to ship this stuff over from the US, when all they need to do is run a pipeline from Grangemouth to the west coast (think there is one already finnart to Grangemouth) extend it down through ayrshire (wee spur to the oil off Arran).
Wonder why INEOS bought a “pig in a poke” like they were telling us when they gutted their unions by holding a gun to their head. They told us oil throughput was diving, the gas in the North Sea was all but gone and they would need to spend hundreds of millions to handle the frac gas from the US. And need docking facilities for large gas tankers. Which can also take gas away as well as bring it in.
JEEZE how unlucky can one company get. Now if we could just get a note of all the lords and MPs who have involvement in any of the companies or land involved in this huge con we might just understand why all these co incidences occurred and why the UNIONIST politicians are shitting themselves about independence. (Won’t be allowed to happen)
Should Scotland have control of its own destiny the Holyrood might just say NAW tae fracking, that would put the baw on the slates. Whereas London ,lords, MPs Westminster has already been taken care of, they’ve already been paid, not a very good position for the shakers and movers in London if Scotland votes yes. This is just my humble opinion.
Heedtracker
You are part of the public – and I agree with everything you say on the beneficiaries of fracking being guys like Ian Taylor.
There are 3 main issues as far as I can tell. The debate on fracking which is one that should be for a future Holyrood parliament, the question over how this can be foisted on people with zero consultation and what stance the SNP should take. It is beyond the scope of the Yes campaign but I believe it (ruling out fracking) will or rather could have a big impact as a populist policy.
I’m dead against it but more than that I believe it is a strong card to play to win independence. It reinforces how out of step Westminster is with Scotland.
Christ, there are going to be Scots living here for centuries to come. Let’s not consume every possible resource at breakneck speed!
joe kane. Nicola said this at the GLO last night,
The licenses where granted from Westminster and are enshrined in law there’s nothing we can do about that.
Why, she said words to the effect of we could make it difficult, she didn’t say, No way its happening. I’m with yous but fracking is a red rag.
very upsetting news about the dangers of fracking in Scotland.
Fracking is also being threatened in Co Fermanagh, Northern ireland.
You can find some information on the pros, cons and health and ecological risks, a comment from a researcher in ireland and a list of references for further stud at link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
@Bruce Wallace
It is seriously starting to look like GCHQ has a shift change at about 11pm.
@Edward says: 29 July, 2014 at 10:56 pm:
“Completely ignoring of course the lesser known fact that Scot’s themselves were sold into slavery by English courts!”
Edward, When the Highland clearances were taking place the Westminster Government were also clearing the Lowlands & Borders. They did this by use of, “The Vagrancy Acts”. At that time Scotland was mainly a rural/farming nation and the workers owned nothing they could not pack into their Pluckies Kists, (Ploughman’s Chests).
The landowners or farmers would attend, “Feein Merkats”, (Feeing on Markets), and fee on the workers they needed with a silver coin. Married couples got a very basic hovel in a, “Pluckies Raw”, (Ploughman’s Row”. Single men were billeted in a bothie and Kitchies,(single females), were billeted in, “The Big Hoose”.
When the Highlands were being cleared for sheep so also were the Lowlands and Southern Uplands. This was done by the law. If no one feed on a worker then the worker was arrested for, “Having no Visible Means of Support”, tried and sentenced to either, The Poor House, The Work House or transported to the colonies where they were, “Apprenticed”, for the length of their sentence. Females often found themselves apprenticed into prostitution or as domestic slaves plus bed warmers . Ass were young children. Both Males and females served as unpaid labour. If they survived their apprenticeship, (and many did not), their sentence was over and they could legally stake a claim to either farm or mine. That is how Westminster colonised Australia, New Zealand, The American colonies, including Canada.
The Vagrancy Acts were only abolished in Scotland in 1990. Mind you by then the usual sentence was £30 or 30 days in klink. Do not also forget National Service was very close to forced labour or even death. I had a Skilled Labourer get 30 days for calling a local Councillor, “A rotten dirty bastard”, but when he was found to be skint and couldn’t pay the fine the charged him with, “Having no visible means of Support”, and sent him to Saughton Hotel. Old Sam said afterwards that it was better than his lodgings in a Model Lodging House.
I was born in a very basic Pluckie’s Raw. I kid you not.
Night all!
@ Tam Jardine, can’t argue with any of that but no energy production is risk free to say the least, Chernobyl, Piper Alpha. Its just tricky assuming that people will go apeshit over fracking like on tv down south, when they see a fracking production plant maybe an acre in size in a field from a road. There have been incidents of gas in human water supplies over in the USA but its a huge industry.
Fracking Fracking Fracking Frak!
An important issue, no doubt of that due to the uncertainty regarding safety of the water supple etc. However, lets make our mind up after Independence.
Right now however I believe there are more pressing issues that we should be raising with those with little knowledge of the positive effect that a vote for Yes would bring to their lives.
Here’s the link to the Livestream video of the Motherwell Q&A with Nicola in Mtherwell. You can find Nicola’s answer to the fracking question around 1hr 31 minutes in.
link to tinyurl.com
Tam Jardine – Yikes, There’s a licence to frack in Edinburgh North and Leith! Where exactly, it’s a hugely built up area?
Westminster has no legitimacy after passing surveillance laws without debate.
We should be at liberty to disregard any diktat this cowboy legislature passes from that point on.
I don’t know if this will help or hinder you T Jenny. 😉
link to tinyurl.com
Thanks Lesley-Anne.
I notice Bruce Wallace is now back-tracking from claiming that Nicola had said fracking was going to take place in an independent Scotland, implying there was no way anyone could do anything to stop it which is rubbish. If the electorate don’t want fracking in an independent Scotland then it won’t take place.
Thanks L-A, so it’s going to be in the Forth, from that map. What about the wild life in the Forth not to mention the safety of the cruise liners coming into Ocean Terminal, doesn’t sound like a good mix.
After Indy, we can surely tell them to frack off, as how could any contract signed by a (now defunct) UK govt still be recognised as legitimate?
Given that the resources to be fracked in Scotland rest underneath densely populated (aka voter) areas I think any political party in an independent Scotland advocating mass production would be unelectable.
The Central belt population is critical for elections to the Scottish parliament, unlike Westminster. Who is going to pay most attention to what voters are concerned about?
TJenny
Maybe on the site they wanted to put that big biomass plant? Leith has had to put up with the strench from having the city’s sewerage works for so long it would not surprise me.
Plenty other constituencies on the list in Edinburgh and beyond. The engine will be running on the 18th September ready for the fracking revolution to take off if we say No. We say Yes and it’s OUR call.
G’night
Thing is TJ the current SG is doing things the sensible way, in my opinion. (not that that ever counts for much 😀 )I always believe in the old adage of slowly slowly catchee monkey. For me this works equally well when we’re talking about the polls or about future SG plans. Let’s take one step at a time and we’ll all get to an end result that is acceptable. The most important point I think that Nicola Sturgeon made concerning fracking was not about the actual licences but that an awful lot of other stuff was involved as well not least of which is the planning stage. Just because a company has a licence there is no guarantee they will end up being able to start fracking. 🙂
This will be happening here soon if we don’t watch out, what effect would this have on our water and Whisky industry?
link to rt.com
Sorry for going O/T but thought folks would love to see this photo of our gymnasts and a *cough* Saltire. You’ll see why I had to cough once you look at the picture. 😉
link to tinyurl.com
L-A, I agree that our SG will be doing all it can at the moment especially as planning is devolved. However, if WM play the ‘Security of the Nation’ card, when we’re not independent, that overrules our planning laws.
However, being fully confident of a YES vote, I don’t think I’ll really worry about this. It’s more the bare faced cheek to be selling licenses for fracking in Scotland before indy that I find irritating, to say the least. but it could be useful in getting current NOs to get onboard the YES train.
agree with the other TJ, Tam Jardine, that very little helps get folk onto the YES side, and everyone has different ‘last straws’ that’ll make them change their mind. Fracking could be one of them.
Oops – that should read ‘every’ little helps. 🙁
I think you could be right TJ if we end up with a NO vote. However, as you say there are a significant number of folks who are either NO voters or undecideds who will see the possibility of fracking on their doorstep or under their house as the one thing that will turn them more than anything else to voting YES! 😀
Is Cameron in the Picture up top saying to Himself. Fcuk what am I going to do now that Flipper has pulled out of the Debate with Alex Salmond. Vote Yes.
Michael McCabe says:
Is Cameron in the Picture up top saying to Himself. Fcuk what am I going to do now that Flipper has pulled out of the Debate with Alex Salmond. Vote Yes.
Funnily enough I have always thought that was Cameron’s plan for day 1 Michael. 😀 I think this explains why he doesn’t want to debate with Alex Salmond, cause his desire to vote YES would be out in a second! 😛
Well boys ‘n’ girls it’s only 50 days to go. Five-zero.
Butterflies anyone?
The ‘lull’ with the CWG is, I think, the calm before the storm. I have a suspicion there is going to be a shit-storm coming our way as ‘they’ increasingly find themselves in a corner and have to resort to – well, anything to protect their privilege. Any ideas what they wouldn’t resort to?
Enjoy the break and take a deep breath, it’ll be all hands on deck after the CWG. We need enough of a win to scotch any cheating.
I’ve heard X_Sticks, via the grapevine you understand, that if we vote YES then Noah will NOT visit Scotland when the great flood comes along! 😀
Lesley-Anne
Your twitter link re gymnasts and Saltire isn’t working?
You’ve been listening to Darling again Lesley-Anne; haven’t you? You naughty girl 😉
Strange, I don’t know what’s happened there sfl. Try this one. It looks like the original one has been taken down, wonder if they think the picture is photo shopped or something. I’m no expert. 😉
link to tinyurl.com
X_Sticks says:
You’ve been listening to Darling again Lesley-Anne; haven’t you? You naughty girl 😉
Who?
Me?
Whatever makes you think that X_Sticks? 😉 😀
L-A – according to the twitter thread you linked to, apparently it was photoshopped although the guy who copied from the fb page wasn’t aware and thought it was real. So it’ll have been taken down. Wish it had been real, though.
Thanks for that TJ. Apologies to all. I also thought the picture looked real. Wish it was but hey ho there you go you live and learn. 🙁
I have heard Noah is coming Before the great Flood. As the only place in the UK to get his new Ark built is on the Clyde. And that he is a Yes Man.
Work tomorrow. Boiiingg – nicht a’
Good to hear Michael. Stick that in yer pipe and smoke it Darling. Noah is getting his Ark built on the Clyde. None of your “can’t be built in a foreign country” garbage with Noah! He knows a great deal when he sees one! 😀
Night all. Sweet dreams (of an indy Scotland 🙂
Night all time for beddie byes! 😉
Never mind Noah missing out Scotland with his Ark, where was he when Somerset needed him ?
Or Cameron, etc ?
Have just watched the film ‘Gaslands’ mentioned above.
After independence, we really need to stop this happening in Scotland. I don’t expect the EBC to broadcast it any time soon…really scary stuff and will be carried out by whichever government rUK gets.
They are shitting themselves at the inevitability of Scottish Independence and want this started as soon as possible to keep the money flowing in, f–k all to do with ‘energy security’ or whatever other words suit them. They are proven lying barstewards. The film is an education
Decades of oil left in North Sea, 100 years potential in Western waters realised, if true, factor in expansive renewable energy industry with the time to develop and perfect it, fracking in Scotland may never actually be required, ever.
In addition to the above, say the oil runs out in 50 years in the North sea, who knows what the world might be like then ?
Any reserves like on west coast side may not ever be exploited.
Look at technology 50 years ago compared to now.
No matter what age you are, think back to being a kid growing up, think what has changed from then till now, internet coming into being for example, mobile phones as another.
Not exactly 50 years tech gap either.
@geeo
where’s my jet pack?
Britain has a debt it cannot hope to repay.
Sitting, as we are, on an ocean of oil and gas, it is understandable that any desperate government would wish to extract as much as possible, and as quickly as possible.
We already KNOW that the current right-wing agenda has no empathy for the people.
The biggest reserve of onshore shale gas/oil is to be found right next to London, in the Tory heartlands. They should start there, but they won’t.
Why should they, when they can ride rough-shod over lower populated areas?
The crown, I believe, owns the mineral rights to the ground underneath your house. Her Majesty must have approved their plans.
Vote Yes for an indy Scotland and free ourselves from this tyranny.
Hi all,
I wrote to Gordon Brown (my local MP) a month or so ago to get his views on trespass laws and fracking.
This was the gist of his reply (page 1 was just blah blah robust measures blah).
pic.twitter.com/mftEDOgtyD
They have fracked Scotland enough.
The small minded BBC Luvies have tried to spoil the Games.
Westminster parasites.
Leaked document re TTIP
link to iatp.org
@ Tjenny 12.37am
My worry is that it’s more than “Bare Faced Cheek” selling licenses before Indy.
But rather that it leaves a future SG open to
being sued by companies if that treaty in Europe is in place having been signed for us.
As Nicola said in Motherwell agreements would be binding that’s how international law works.
As I also think that’s how the “the fracker’s” will get around protected areas in rUK.
But hopefully that won’t be our problem in only 49 DAY’S.
The issue of fracking licences are under Westminster who hold the reins on energy full stop.Therefore there is nothing the SNP can do to stop the issuing of these.
However, the SNP do hold the say on planning, and despite what others have said they are NOT fracking friendly.
I suspect that any fracking planning may take an extended time, with considerable problems getting through the said planning.
Nana Smith says:
This is an important post by Nana, it is heavy reading but what essentially means is that America wants to have the EU (and every country they can persuade)sign up to what is a means for huge American companies to control everything over peoples lives to the benefit of those companies.
If the companies refuse to carry out what they have signed up to, they will be sued for billions by those American companies.( they have already started suing in Australia for example) They will dictate every aspect of our life and there will be no escape after being signed up.
Every country would be totally nuts to sign up to this little highlighted growing threat to enslave the world.
While there will be some benefits, looking over the longer term it is decidedly scary and should be rejected as it will have consequences for everyone, and the way we expect to live in the future. Expect the elites, who will quickly buy shares in the US companies that will benefit the most, to sign us up to it.
I have a question,
When we’re independent,
does anyone think we should continue to give rUK handouts?
in the interests of good neighbourliness ye unnerstaun?
@Les Wilson
As you say Les, the whole concept is truly scary.
The US will hold the rest of the world to ransom if they succeed with TTIP.
John King
No fucking way…..eh well maybe a few crumbs….just like they’ve been doing to us for 300 years!!!
@ les Wilson 7.28am
Could not agree more [thank you nana smith]
We have to get out of this union and make sure that our constitution bind’s Holyrood to our will,so much so, that they could not sign up to an agreement that,give’s companies so much power.
It is surely not beyond our ken to lead the world with a progressive 21st century Constitution that for once puts the people ahead of the game.
@John King
Hmmmm, that depends on how neighbourly and friendly they are I’d say. I mean the opening offer on the table is already there from the SG and its pretty bloody generous. CTA, Sterling Zone in exchange for £160bn debt, open free trade, and a certain degree of access and cooperation over north sea oil according to George Kerevan.
No, I’d say we’ve been more than generous enough to be getting on with. There’s going to need to be some reciprocity and a show of willing at some point from HMG and to date, they’ve shown eff all but petulant dummy spitting and naked threat. Doesn’t really inspire good will.
Wonder how many lies he told the folks at the coffee morning.
link to cumbernauld-news.co.uk
@galamcennalath
The US’s and other countries’ abstraction of aquifers is another major environmental time bomb waiting to hit. A lot of the aquifers being tapped for agriculture are fossil waters with little or no chance of replacement in anything other than geologic time. Even the rain replenishable aquifers are being over abstracted.
Much of the US midwest grain belt could become a dust bowl due to lack of water they are using too much of it.
In Southern Australia there are big problems with salination from over irrigation, it raises the water table and brings up salt from metres down.
Then there are the aquifers being tapped on the coasts that are salinating because the negative pressures from abstraction are sucking in seawater.
Much of the SE of England relies on borehole water. A possible use of the oil fund would be building a big pipe to the border just above Kielder Water, with a valve and a gauge so we can charge for it. It would be up to rUK to get it from Kielder to where it would be useful.
As global warming increases much of the South of England will need water. With most of our major rivers already under control for power generation effecting this would be fairly trivial.
An investment for either when the oil runs out or it becomes better or internationally less outrageous to leave in the ground for the future. Add it to becoming a net green energy exporter and just occupying the land will reap riches, hopefully for all.
@ nana smith
Wouldn’t worry to much about cumbernauld
Walking the dog all I see is more and more window’s with yes posters.
Haven’t seen a no so far.
The local shop keepers are really pro Indy one telling me his whole family about 17 of them are all for Yes
@a2
That is a spurious spoiler of a very relevant point made by geeo.
There is no need for fracking in Scotland right now or likely to be one any time henceforth.
New technologies shall evolve. Fracking is a “quick and dirty technology” driven by Dick Cheyney and Halliburton.
@Robert Kerr
And fueled by cheap money because of low interest rates.
Osborns face.
Looks like a wee dug that’s shat on the floor and been caught.
john king says:
“does anyone think we should continue to give rUK handouts?”
Foreign aid?
Possibly a good idea as long as the aid doesn’t go to westminster, but went directly to deprived areas in northern England,Wales or northern Ireland.
With a Yes vote Scotland will control what happens with fracking, right now and with a No vote we don’t, and would not.
So with a No vote we would be reduced to demonstrating against fracking sites and exploration.
If these went ahead, we would not get the benefit of the revenue.
We couldn’t fit this extraction into a energy policy because we wouldn’t make the energy policies.
Nana Smith , Thanks for linking that about TTIP. My concern is ,if certain Unions are promoting the ‘we are all just one big NHS’ in their haste to support the Union ( UK). Once more would Scotland ( and Wales/NI) be signed up to something we would not have any control over.
This is important not just because of the implications for trade, working conditions etc but because after independence Scotland would have the option of EU or Shengen.
It looks like the SG have been bypassed regarding the fracking licences being issued, so where has the debate been re TTIP with the SG?
Far less any issue raised in our media
The Scottish Gov SNP can issue a statement on Fracking that all licences granted prior to Independence by the UK Gov would be subject to Recall,would you invest in Fracking in Scotland with that knowledge, UkGov FuKed again.
I note that Labour stalwarts, Douglas Alexander, MP for Paisley and Renfrewshire South, and Anne McGuire, MP for Stirling, are both in the pro-fracking lobby. How long will it take for them to change their tune, once their respective electorates realise this? Expect a U-turn sometime soon.
Patrician, joe kane.
I am no troll and my point about fracking is valid, I come here for Stu’s articles and only those, not to read some of the follow the leader comments from yourselves.
This is a good site and is my daily pilgrimage, dont expect people to follow every word said here, some people have their own minds.
I will Not be accepting fracking, it angers me at the thought of it, I’m no troll, just angry that this issue has only came about and yous are trying to shift the whole responsibility onto wesminster.
If fracking affects the gas market here like it did in the USA, it will likely cause the wholesale price of UK gas to fall.
While this may be good for manufacturers & possibly home owners/renters who use gas to heat their houses, it may make a lot of drilling in the North Sea economically unsustainable.
It is hugely more expensive to drill off shore than onshore so there will be a penalty to pay if the on-shore drilling/fracking business takes off.
I’m deliberately leaving aside the argument about it being allowed on national park land. That’s a moral/social argument.
But from an economic perspective there are always winners & losers in any market when the fundamentals change dramatically.
I’m quite happy for fracking to take place under my home, as long as two conditions are met first.
1.) Westminster and Buck house must have been “mined out” by the process previously.
2.) The homes of all who support fracking must have undergone the same treatment also.
Sorry if I’m repeating comments made by others above, I just can’t read thro’ 100 plus comments.
FM Alex Salmond stated during FM Question Time a few weeks past, that Scotland produces seven times its domestic hydrocarbon requirements. And yes, the income from the other six sevenths goes to Westminster Treasury. So fracking would be an additional income stream for rUK and of no financial benefit to a Scotland that votes No in the referendum, and so continues to be ruled from Westminster.
Papdox astutely notes that the gas storage facility planned by INEOS is likely for the unstated storage of tracked gas in Scotland.Imports from the USA a short-term screen?
Just as an incoming UK government declares it cannot be bound by the future planned activities of an outgoing government, so the incoming government of newly independent Scotland cannot be bound by the agreements of the outgoing rUK, agreements struck in the full knowledge of likely political change following the referendum.
Companies would do well to ponder on this.
Bruce Wallace please quote me were I called you a troll?
Don’t accuse me of anti-social behaviour just because I pointed out your comments on WOS about Nicola Sturgeon’s diplomatic circumlocutions on fracking at Motherwell misrepresented what she said.
Announcement in, at a quiet time. Fracking sliding headlong from the news agenda, into the memory hole.
I’ve rattled on about ‘energy security’, and the lack of any threat to the continuity of supply from nasty foreigners, particularly our currently non existent Russian supplies. (the BBBC thought it fine to mention “Putins Stopcock” yesterday though)
BBBC mission accomplished.
But the thought just came to me.
Maybe it’s really a post Yes Scotland Stopcock they are feart of. The current 40% ish of rUKs ‘own’ supply will need to come from foreigners, of one sort or another.
A nice looking pie chart.
@bruce wallace
Please reread your comments about fracking on this site, and keep in mind all the concern trolls we have had visiting. Please remember that undecided voters read this site and this debate is not about the SNPs stance on anything, this is about what happens if we don’t achieve independence. Your statements imply that political parties are all the same whether before or after independence and nothing will really change. Vote Green Party, SSP, LFI or any other party in 2016 if you don’t agree with SNP policies, personally I haven’t found a party yet that meets all my criteria for a vote in 2016.
Aye John we can take over (i mean help out) their media so we can remind them of the good old days when team gb ruled the CWG and everything else in this region of theirs. It’s only fair after all they’ve done for us.
FFS canny watch any of it. Completely spoiled by EBC.
Here is GL part two 2013.
link to tinyurl.com