The filth and the fury
It seems safe to say that the SNP’s de facto defeat of the fox-torturing lobby today has riled the right-wing commentariat beyond their endurance. Unable to get their way and inflict a prolonged, agonising death on small animals for “sport”, Tory columnists have instead descended howling and bloodthirsty at pack strength on their readers.
Here’s just a small sample.
“So now we all know what we’re dealing with. This SNP malice against the English and our democracy is no joke.” (Melissa Kite, The Spectator)
“Is ‘little cranky’ Sturgeon the modern Judas?” (Emer Martin, The Sun)
“The thugs who take it upon themselves to ‘police’ hunting say they are animal lovers. One glance at their faces contorted with hatred is enough to tell the real story. They are not animal lovers; they are people haters.” (Louise Guinness, The Telegraph)
“The SNP has indicated a desire to play an ever closer role in British politics. The good news is that this must make more certain a regime under which it cannot.” (Simon Jenkins, The Guardian)
“Tuesday is Emmeline Pankhurst Day, and whilst I am not going to throw myself in front of a horse to make my point about British democracy on this occasion, this is a vitally important constitutional matter and perhaps we should throw Sturgeon in front of a hunt horse as part of the commemorations.” (Paul Nuttall, UKIP deputy leader, in the Huffington Post)
“This is absolutely not about animal welfare. It is a cynical bid by the separatists, who know full well that them dictating to England will generate fury south of the Border” (Leader, The Scottish Daily Mail)
We must say, we’re not absolutely sure that these are the best people to make SNP supporters doubt that their party made the right choice, but hey, what would we know about it? We’re just the sort of simple-minded plebs who don’t see the fun and jollity in watching a living creature have its limbs ripped off by frenzied dogs so that we can smear its blood on our children’s faces and then enjoy a nice glass of sherry.
Why are Tories so keen to tear brutally apart small furry animals?
It’s a classic symptom of psychopathic behaviour
Another nail gets hammered in to the union coffin lid.
My preference is to cut straight to the sherry.
These are the responses of fear. They are afraid that their elitist class system, with its war against poor people, and even small animals, and those who defend them and seek their well-being, are going to bring down their system and increase justice in our neighbouring, English nation.
These are seriously sick people, they need to be seeking professional help.
Foxes know no borders
Louise Guinness – spoof columnist, right? Every line of that is hysterical Daily Mash-esque perfection. That Simon Jenkins one is hilarious too. Who on earth gave the British-based SNP the right to participate in British politics, eh? Mind-blowing stuff.
Watching millionaire animal-killers squeal about UK democracy failing them today has been beautiful, especially combined with the Mhairi Black maiden speech and SNP 56% poll. The next five years of austerity will be brutal for a lot of us, but as long as the UK media keep making fools of themselves with these demented racist rants, it becomes more obvious who’s likely to win the next referendum. 😀
Feudal overlords. Strangers to democracy. But we have the numbers.
well said
James Kelly article on Cameron’s surrender and without the SNP voting on an ‘English’ matter.
https://archive.is/4gDTA
Jeez.. What are the chances of all those journo’s completing the same creative writing course..
I think they need to attend the equality and diversity course.
A+ for creativity, hysteria & Nat bashing
D- for factual content and failing to care for the natural world – see me after school tut tut.
What these presstitutes fear more than anything else is the truth.
I quite fancy a sherry…
‘Crack in the Union Jack’ by Suede – my soundtrack for today
So the love-bombing campaign is over, then?
Is the BBC not reporting this as a disaster for chickens and rabbits yet? Is JK Rowling not moaning about a Scot nationalist fox eating her next novel yet?
They are a bad joke! People who are paid to write pieces to support a morally corrupt government don’t deserve to be taken seriously.Pens for hire-that’s all!
And they wonder at the decline of their industry-does it never occur to them that they might actually be part of the cause of that decline?
Is that photo for real? It is pretty sick if it is!
Charlie Brooks the Telegraph! Surely not Charlie husband of Rebecca, hunting friend of Prime Ministers and concealer of laptops?
“flat on their faces at the first hurdle”?
“such is their bigotry”? Wrong on both counts!
“After a couple of weeks creeping around the corridors of Westminster” What a strange assertion! Methinks I know who the bigot is and it is now time we put him and his kind behind us! We have a younger generation who will see the job to completion.
All the comments betray a sense that both the SNP and Scotland represent ‘the other’. They are clearly both positioned by the commentators as outside their vision of what constitutes parliamentary democracy. It is this view that leads to their protestations that the views and participation of the SNP on behalf of Scotland within Westminster come from outside the realm of the acceptable and are consequently invalid.
If not for our representative voice in Westminster then, what reason could England have for wishing to perpetuate the Union.
Didnt you preempt all this faux outrage the other day Stu?
Nobody could let this go ahead,its cruel and barbaric. The right decision has been made.
This is only the start of years and years of Tory rule. Two months in and they have already robbed millions of people,preparing to sell off a bank that was bailed out for a huge amount at a loss,(an amount the government said the nation would get back in full,mind you) made more Lords,and appointed unelected Tory advisors in Scotland.
They have attempted to hog tie the Scottish Parliament by repeatedly watering down the miserable and unworkable smith commission and tried to bring about evel by manipulating parliament(undermining their own Parliament in the process)and now they want to rip apart animals.
Two months in so far,what is it going to be like in a couple of years in the 3rd or 4th budget one can only guess.Better together? No thanks!
What is annoying is that it is all framed as an attack in the English, which of course it isn’t.
It is an attack on the Tories, and an overwhelming majority of Englsih did not vote Tory.
Also,can overwhelming majority of English want to keep the ban on fox hunting.
Perhaps therein lies the problem for the gutter press …. the SNP are standing up for the majority of English voters, rather than their minority backed Tory government fulfilling that role. That will offend the right!
Yes, it’s very telling that they begged us to stay not that long ago but are now shocked and dismayed that we mean to have a say within the “Union”. When they said, “Stay” they meant it like you would say to a dog; sit and don’t move until we tell you to. The fact that we’re speaking up for ourselves wasn’t their intention at all.
Anyway, as others have said, the rage they’re showing about animals NOT being brutally slaughtered is frightening. Coupled with the silence from them about people’s financial life-lines being cut, having to use foodbanks to survive and generally being financially and emotionally crushed into the ground, it’s just horrific.
Ernekid at 9:04 pm
You wrote: “Why are Tories so keen to tear brutally apart small furry animals? It’s a classic symptom of psychopathic behaviour”
Even after everything that has gone on over the last couple of days, I find it absolutely astonishing that someone can still demonstrate that they haven’t a clue about what has happened!
Ernekid, killing foxes with hounds is illegal and has been for over 10 years. Hounds killing foxes was never on the agenda.
Given your demonstrated inability to grasp basic concepts, let me explain again. The proposed bill in England relaxed the rules so that they were nearer (but not as relaxed) as the laws in Scotland.
So whatever views, anger and distaste you may have about governments that allow Fox hunting to the degree allowed in England – you need to increase that anger and distaste somewhat and direct it at your SNP government – who have a majority – and who could have changed the law any time they wanted – but didnt!!!
Being partisan is one thing – being a complete one-eyed hypocrite is quite something else.
I once heard it described by Oscar wilde as
“The unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable”
That kind of sums up the “sport” of fox hunting
OT – Drove past Turnberry tonight and they have the biggest Saltire I have seen flying proudly for the forthcoming Women’s Open Championship… The local batshits have demanded it be taken down and replaced by the UJ 🙂
Should be able to see it from Arran..
http://imgur.com/a/HtivI#3t4DYHi
Is it not becoming all too apparent that psychopaths and sociopaths are just a bit too common among the tory columnists? It’s uncanny.
Wot a bunch of nutters.
The Unspeakable in pursuit of the Unbeatable.
The Unionist campaigned for a win, and they got it.
However we can now see that their idea of a win was for Scotland to go back to being seen and not heard. We were meant to be out of sight, out of mind from inside the London bubble.
Presumably the SNP was to go away, and we were to continue to elect Unionist clone place holders.
They certainly did not want or expect a politically energised and aware Scotland to suddenly want to exercise a say in the running of the UK.
This is turning into the biggest political shock to the establishment and their cosy order of things since …. well, since long before living memory.
PS last post before I read the OW quote above.
@ sensibledave
So, pray tell, what are your thoughts on the great macaroni pie debate?
MY FAVOURITE
“The SNP has indicated a desire to play an ever closer role in British politics. The good news is that this must make more certain a regime under which it cannot.” (Simon Jenkins, The Guardian)
If it annoys so many of these people then it was clearly the right choice.
In fact, let’s do it again 🙂
@ SensitiveDave
“Being partisan is one thing – being a complete one-eyed hypocrite is quite something else.”
Away and play wi’ the buses. Nicola Sturgeon, on COUNTLESS occasions throughout GE2015 campaign said in no uncertain terms that her intention was to lock Cameron out of Downing St., to deny the blue Tories power. That is EXACTLY what she did today. And it is a promise she will continue to keep at ANY opportunity that arises.
Get over it.
It’s kind of liberating to see how the unionist press, typically over reacts, when they get a taste of their own medicine.
Now they must know how it feels, to feel powerless as we do in Scotland, as Westminster tightens the austerity noose, and its one Tory MP, gleefully rubs his grubby little hands in delight.
Imagine the bile that will be printed when the SNP help block, something the Tories have their heart truly set on, I do hope it happens sooner than later.
When angry columnists start losing the plot so completely, you just know they are very worried indeed.
Sweet.
In the best circles….in which, naturally, I mix….it is sloe gin, rather than sherry.
” our democracy ” says melissa kite.
What about OUR democracy….
sensibledave at 9.51
Ho ho ho
It’s politics. Haven’t you heard of that?
suck it up unionists
I’m sure Nicola, Mhairi et al feel truly dwarfed by the sight of Charlie Brooks on the moral high ground. I know I do.
For fox sake,
What are the parasites Dan Saf getting so worked up about.
The last time I was at Primrose Hill ( that well known mountain landscape in Londerland)
there weren’t any hunts going on.
I think Nigel and Clarisa are getting worked up at the fact, they will have to crack one off at pictures of land Rovers rather than pictures of foxes being torn apart.
Mon the Foxes.
3 winners..the Foxes…the SNP and ultimately The Tories.
Labour are sitting sulking alone in a pub muttering ‘but we opposed it too..hmph’
@ Croompenstein Diz Thump the Trump know the Onionist will be E Mailing him tae get it doon.
Ran out of things to say to these fools but I do like ‘presstitutes. …’Then thanks did you coin?
Ran out of things to say to these fools but I do like ‘presstitutes. …’Thepnr thanks, did you coin?
Everyone seems to miss the point here, it’s comfortable to see this as tory toffs wanting to fox hunt when in actual fact the proposal was to have the same rules as Scotland ,if anything it would have been more stringent. Cameron was looking for something to strengthen the calls for EVEL and now that the SNP have shown they will vote on matters in England and Wales that are devolved to Scotland, he has got it . He will now use it to push EVEl through.If anyone thinks all this was really about foxhunting they are kidding themselves.
I know the guy who designed and oversaw the renovation of that hotel and I can tell you he’ll be well pleased by the sight of the saltire flying.
Leslie Riddoch ripping Alex Massie to bits on Scotland tonight just now. Go on girl ! Brilliant.
After another fine display today of brotherly love from the msm, cameron and some so called drunken history teacher or perhaps it was woodwork? I wish to thank you all from the bottom of my heart for making it all a little easier for us to go our seperate ways. Please keep the good work up , we really do feel your love and your sentiments really do keep us going up here.
PS MB , your maiden speech was sublime – thanks.
Ah the righteous commentariat, vanity publishing at its finest. Gary Gibbon’s assault on the FM tonight on C4 News was another afront IMO.
O/T, the funniest bit of spontaneous graffiti I came across was scrawled on a Missing Cat flyer, posted on a lamp-post on a quiet suburban West London street where I was living at the time. Complete with cute photo and offer of reward (Waitrose vouchers maybe), it pleaded with the general public for the gentle safe return of the timid kitty to her owner. A black permanent marker had been used on top of the laminated poster. It said, “A fox ate your cat.”
John king says:
14 July, 2015 at 9:18 pm
These are seriously sick people, they need to be seeking professional help
John have look at the picture on the link below and your own picture of Eccles in your post at 9.18 pm. Great Likeness,e
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/08/11/254124AA00000578-0-image-m-14_1428490468657.jpg
sensibledave says:
@9:51 pm
“So whatever views, anger and distaste you may have about governments that allow Fox hunting to the degree allowed in England – you need to increase that anger and distaste somewhat and direct it at your SNP government – who have a majority – and who could have changed the law any time they wanted – but didnt!!!!”
Yes, they could have changed it at any time, but hey, they didn’t – they have now ‘tho,so suck it up. Personally, I would have said nothing prior to the vote and made it a nice wee surprise for the Tories et al who love ripping animals apart for fun. Those peskie nats!, eh?
But it’s not about the foxes, is it Sensibledave? I think you are somewhat peed off that SNP dared vote on an ‘English issue’. Where is all the love gone? I thought we were wanted in the Union? no?
What’s your views on the disgusting unionist abuse being hurled at our SNP MP’s? And at the incitement of hatred and harm towards our FM?
So people who don’t like blood sports are enemies of democracy?
Then i don’t think you understand democracy. And I don’t want to be part of what you mean by democracy.
The hunting legislation would not have been defeated by SNP votes nor Labour nor Libdem but because Cameron could not rely on all of his Tory MPs.
Or is my arithmetic faulty ?
Sounds to me the English and Scottish press ( Daily mail) are running scared. But its also worrying that when when the deputy leader of UKIP calls for Nicola Sturgeon to be murdered it’s a worrying sign. I am greatly concerned by those comments.
Independence must come quickly or it will get messy.
“The SNP has indicated a desire to play an ever closer role in British politics. The good news is that this must make more certain a regime under which it cannot.” (Simon Jenkins, The Guardian)
I squandered 30 fcuking years of newspaper reading life on those rancid Graun red tory rotters but its still nice to know that the nastiest and creepiest of that whole pile of tory gits is The Guardian twerp.
Talk about brand loyalty.
What will make them give up Scotland though and flounce back to the south east? When all the oil’s been siphoned away probably.
Given your demonstrated inability to grasp basic concepts, let me explain again.
Denigrating other posters as of lesser intelligence or plain stupid is a troll hallmark. (I’m next.)
Leslie Riddoch ripping Alex Massie to bits on Scotland tonight
If only she had. She was her usual level-headed sensible self. She doesn’t do brutal ripostes. I wish she did.
That they see nothing wrong with a gaggle of English MPs swilling cheap booze in the Westminster bar ignoring the Scotland Bill debate then trooping in to vote against says so much.
And yet the SNP decide to vote against their fox-hunting wheeze and instantly become all the bastards under the sun.
Hopefully some who had/have faith in Westminster will start to see the duplicity of it all.
@ronnie – aye Ronnie I dunno how the EBC are going to get round not showing the Big flag when they are filming the golf. Should be funny watching them try. The photies don’t actually do it justice it is huge 🙂
Grouse Beater says:
14 July, 2015 at 11:31 pm
Given your demonstrated inability to grasp basic concepts, let me explain again.
Dave’s not a troll, he just doesn’t want Scotland to be an independent nation state, as a lot of English toryboys dont.
But this may change as Scotland’s 56-57 MP’s begin to dictate UK policy to the toryboys themselves.
Dave’s a Scotland lover, obsessively controlling, creepy and demented with anger at Scottish democracy but England’s domination of Scotland is nearly over.
Of course, Charlie Brooks is a credible commentator what with hom being married to Rebekah Brooks, personal friend of David Cameron (and supporter of the Heythrop hunt in Chipping Norton).
Top marks to Melissa Kite of The Spectator, for suggesting that two famous people who are vocally opposed to animal cruelty presumably must hypocritically approve of killing animals for food. Except that Brian May and Ricky Gervais are both vegetarians, which kind of defeats the ideology-driven point being made by the shoddy journo and shows that the aforementioned celebs have pretty clear convictions on animal cruelty. You tried, though.
Dave’s a Scotland lover, obsessively controlling, creepy and demented with anger at Scottish democracy
He’ll not teach you anything you don’t already know.
Empty headed oiks used to get their kicks scaring people by throwing stones at bus windows and laughing. Now they get their kicks scaring people by throwing stones at internet windows and laughing.
Count me out, as they say. I’ve work to get through.
Good to see The Guardian acknowledge that the Tory Government at Westminster can now be referred to as a regime…David Cameron, Britain’s first Mugabe, Gaddafi, Saddam…..
Never heard about this on Reporting Scotland tonight.
The National:
“1,500 civil servants bringing in Universal Credit to strike over ‘oppressive working conditions’.”
http://www.thenational.scot/news/1500-civil-servants-bringing-in-universal-credit-to-strike-over-oppressive-working-conditions.5139?utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_term=Autofeed#link_time=1436874078
All this fake outrage from unionist politicians & journos & yet not a single vote was cast!
You couldn’t make it up but here it is for all to see 🙂
From the fox’s perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaTmBp6Q4Qk
I do not think that many people have grasped the irony of what has happened here. The SNP did not even vote but the Toerags have had to kick their proposed change into the long grass. I am literally ROFLMAO.
SNP 1 Tories 0
And various members of the commentariat have gone down in my estimation and I guess in others. The continual leach to the right and the westminster agenda is just fuckin depressing. Hey ho. Nice one Mhairi btw
Charlie
Just shows what a political party on the side of the plebs can achieve.
Well done the SNP.
Now let Scottish votes keep the UK in the EU.
It will be great fun to see them begging us to leave.
We can have our own EU referendum after independence if they start causing problems.
The hatred that is flowing from down south towards the Scottish border has one upside.
It will be the last time we will see dicks like Dan Snow filling Trafalgar Sq in London with luvvies and getting them all to tell us not to leave and how much they love us.
He would get lynched now for attempting a similar stunt.
And do you think “Dave” still loves us and wants us to stay?
It was a good day at Westminster for Scotland and it moved us a step closer to Independence.
Also my MP Mhairi Black done us proud today. It was a pleasure to campaign with her and I was at the count to witness that wee tool Alexander lose his seat to this wee Scottish diamond. She is a good person to have on your side.
Go Mhairi!
If it had been 56 Slab MPs who had helped defeat this,there would only have been wry commentaries about Mr Cameron suffering the first defeat of his new Gov.
The BritNat media would not attack Scottish Lab MPs because they know Slab are assimilated Uncle Jocks and cut them some slack.They know they own them.
Well they don’t own SNP and that is why they are foaming at the mouth,especially Jenkins of the Grauniad lol
What’s up with Jakey R
Harry Potter tried to save his uncle the werewolf, the Elf Dobby, A big Bird Thing, Hermione had a cat for god’s sake
even Ron Weasley had a Rat
Jakey writes childrens books!!!!
I’m appalled at her uncaring attitude towards Ickwle Cudwly Animuwls
Not that I’ve ever read any of that shit
OT – Breaking News.
Ho deary me it appears the Labour Party are about to get Steam Rolled. It couldn’t happen to a nicer party.
I wonder what Harman’s thoughts are on this issue?
As said already, if this is the mad panic reaction to the SNP not even actually voting, imagine the reaction when they ACTUALLY VOTE !!!
Cameron’s erse must be twitching at the thought of anything Europe being voted on….????????????
“Today I saw the two distinct faces of Scottish politics.
One of them was youthful and energetic, with eyes that burned with conviction and hope, and who’s mouth spoke the words of justice, fairness and a better world.
The other face was contorted with anger, and the twisted mouth on that sneering puss dribbled envy, spite and disgusting self-regard.
I know which one I prefer. I know which one Scotland prefers.”
http://www.commentisntfree.com/a-glimpse-of-the-future/
Hi charlie.
I think it’s actually SNP 3, Tories Nil – Human Rights, EVEL and Foxes.
And, as others have typed, without a vote being cast!
“Oh we’ll fight for what is right and the dawning of the day…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoZZVkDVZ0c
Roll_0n_2015 @ 1.11
Oh Jeez, didn’t even need to read all of that to see how Draconian it is. As if we need confirmation this lot are 100 times worse than Thatcher.
The SNP had a form for members to fill in to ensure their union would not give any part of their dues to the Labour Party but to fund their political fund. So I think they would have been screwed in Scotland, at least.
Don’t ell anyone, but I regularly feed foxes in my wee gerden in Kelvindale. I have built a fort to keep the redcoats oot.
Did Labour, when they had 40+ MPs refrain from voting on English only matters? Did the Scottish Tories, the Lid/Dems. Is this EVEL nonsense only directed at the SNP?
If so,then, if brought to fruition, our MPs should board the first flight home.
Do English MEPs only vote in Europe when there is an item pertaining to England?
If our MPs are legitimately elected to Westminster then nothing that goes on there can be outwith their interest.
Former Labour cabinet minister Jack Straw has strongly criticised a letter sent out to two million Scottish households during the referendum campaign.
“That letter without any question breached purdah rules and it probably breached normal rules of public spending as well”.
https://archive.is/zJS5Y
David Hammond
It may have been about fox hunting but between Mhairi Blacks speech and the threat of the SNP vote today, it doesn’t half put pressure on their compadres sitting along from them.
The SNP have stepped up to form an alliance and show a majority opposition, will Labour respond /step up at the next vote? EVEL or whit ?
O/T
My Drivers licence is due for renewal, I don’t want a Union Flag plastered on it. Can I have a Saltire please and how much more will that cost me?
So, to the English hard-right, their psychopathic need to tear animals apart for sport has been quite shockingly put on hold because 56 democratically elected SNP MPs said they would vote against it. Not ‘Her Majesty’s Opposition’ the Labour party, then, or the rebels within the Conservative government that are causing all the furore? Ohhhhh no. It was/was going to be/is/will be the SNP’s fault, those ‘others’…
Ha-ha-ha!
GIRFUY Cameron and your Conservative ‘values’.
GIRFUYz Labour, useless Conservative-lite no-marks.
GIRFUYz Lib Dems for being the Conservatives in short pants.
GIRFUYz the British Establishment, your days of riding roughshod over Scotland and its people are over.
GIRFUYz Better Together, you got your wish through dishonesty so here we are in ‘your’ parliament – suck it up!
GIRFUYz the corrupt UKs MSM and your pathetic fraudsters calling themselves ‘journalists, you’ll never beat us, your days are numbered, and when we get our independence back we’ll be dancing on your dead industry’s grave.
Oh, and what’s that? There’s some kind of sound coming from a foxhole in Middle England… It sounds like… singing… Let’s listen in… “We love you SNP, oh yes we do, we love you SNP, oh yes we do. We love you SNP, we do, ohhhhh SNP we love you!” “Listen here everyone, I’m the Alpha Fox here, by the way, and what I say goes: From now on, we only communicate with our best friends, the SNP. The rest of that lot in Westminster can GTF and go do one. All agree howl aye – “Aye!” And again, all agree howl aye – “Aye!””
Aye well, it’s understandable, animals know who their friends are, and it sure as hell isn’t the majority of those in Westminster and its environs…
Quentin Quale says
“So the love-bombing campaign is over, then?”
What… eh… when…?
did I miss it?
______________________________________________________________
effigy
John have look at the picture on the link below and your own picture of Eccles in your post at 9.18 pm. Great Likeness,e”
Thats it,
Im changing my avatar. 😉
_____________________________________________________________
Donald Anderson
“Don’t ell anyone, but I regularly feed foxes in my wee gerden in Kelvindale. I have built a fort to keep the redcoats oot.”
I had a cat called Kodak who was a total nutcase, (I swear he had a turn in his eye) who would go for anything that had the temerity to enter his garden, I got the shock of my life when one day he appeared from the side of our house in hot pursuit of a fox and chased it across the road into a neighbours garden and out of sight I heard the most god awful noise and thought oh no he’s going to be eaten, as soon as I thought that he reappeared sauntering back to his own garden spitting red fur from his mouth, I never turned my back on Kodak after that, a fucking nutjob, and I miss him every day.
Donald Anderson 1.50am
Very good,but isn’t it Alan Breck you need to keep out?
Just the other day I read a comment along the lines of ‘Why do they [the Scotch] hate us [the sainted English] so much. We’re the most tolerant nation on the planet.’
I couldn’t decide if it demonstrated a tragic lack of self awareness or a sublime taste in satire.
Either way, the answer is the same. We don’t hate you, we lament the fact that you have allowed these unhinged, spittle-flecked ranters to represent the voice of the mainstream. Perhaps you have been a little too tolerant after all.
Peter Craig 2.39
I can imagine lots of independence supporting young folks getting their first driving license and having their resolve hardened by this foolish move.
Scott Borthwick 6.45
Oh,I like that.Very sharp.
Proud Cybernat Wrote at 10:09 pm
“Nicola Sturgeon, on COUNTLESS occasions throughout GE2015 campaign said in no uncertain terms that her intention was to lock Cameron out of Downing St., to deny the blue Tories power. That is EXACTLY what she did today. And it is a promise she will continue to keep at ANY opportunity that arises.”
Ha Ha! Indeed The Sainted Nicola did indeed say that her intention was to lock Cameron out of Downing Street. The strategy failed to the extent that we ended up with the most unlikely outcome – a Tory majority!
She also said that the SNP wouldn’t vote on matters that only affected England. She lied – to both Scottish and English voters. We will all take note and remind her, and you, regularly and often.
We witnessed the spectre of Scottish MPs potentially voting against a bill that included more stringent controls on fox hunting than exist in Scotland – It is difficult to imagine a more obvious example of opportunist hypocrisy.
Please don’t get me wrong. I completely accept that Ms Sturgeon and the SNP were entitled, under the rules of Parliament, to do what they did, or were going to do. I have absolutely no complaints about that.
However, we can now see, and all accept, that Ms Sturgeon and the SNP are just another bunch of lying, scheming, duplicitous politicians that will do anything for political expediency. They, just like so many other politicians, will lie to the electorate and then lie further with their faux justifications for the deeds after the fact.
I can’t work out yet whether the SNP policy is to ensure EVEL is introduced as quickly as possible (by acting in such a manner) because they think it will quicken the pace towards indyref2 – or whether they are just totally inept?
@Ernekid says: 14 July, 2015 at 9:04 pm:
“Why are Tories so keen to tear brutally apart small furry animals? It’s a classic symptom of psychopathic behaviour.”
Technically, Ernekid, foxes aren’t wee furry animals they are wee hairy animals and, while I’m not at all sure if the ones doing the hunting and killing are actually human, I’m quite certain they are inhumane.
Is it just me, or does EVEL spell too close to EVIL? Surely, the worst choice of an abbreviation.
The Brit media showing its true colours, a Plutocratic clique, verbally lynching individuals in their media, pouring hate on anyone not supporting The LabServativeDem and BBC unionist and media party.
SNP are their greatest enemy. Guessing we have past the stages of being ignored and ridiculed?
Sensible dave. You appear to be very upset. Here is why the SNP have changed their policy on voting on such issues. What created it is the duplicity and sneering that passes for debate in the HOC and the hyjacking of the VOW by Camerons EVEL.
Please take the time to read what The Wee Ginger Dug has to say, and see if you can begin to comprehend reality, here is your starter for 10.
“Davie Cameron is upset because Scotland’s MPs shouldn’t be allowed to overrule England’s MPs, this comes after the single Scottish Tory overruled every single amendment to the Scotland Bill made by the 58 non-Tory Scottish MPs. Paddington Mundell doesn’t have 59 votes all by himself, but he does count on the support of a whole load of English MPs who will vote down what Scotland wants. Cameron doesn’t do irony where Scotland is concerned, or indeed fairness or democracy. “
sensibledave
If you are unaware of the levels of trust and popularity the SNP can boast, I’ll assume you are a comparative newcomer to Scottish politics. Also, you don’t follow the news much.
I’m not sure if you’ll get much traction here with your pretty woeful efforts to undermine the SNP’s reputation for competence. However, I think you are correct with the first of your alternative. I’d like to think there was also a bit of GIRUY, for the atrocious treatment of the Scotland Bill.
Andy Burnham (if you can’t run a hospital, you can’t run a country), supports the ‘White elephant’ no business case, unaffordable HS2 £50-70Billion which will make journey’s to the North and Scotland even longer. The Tories have just cut £38Billion funding for the essential electrification of the rail lines to connect the Northern Cities and cut journey times. In Scotland the rail lines have not even been electrified making journey’s to and through Scotland up to an hour longer.
If the rail service in the North was improved, it would improve the economy and make rail journey’s comparable with flights to Heathrow. The worst airport in the world.
The Scottish Gov build a state of the art hospital any country would be proud. They would be showing off the fabulous facilities and the first class dedicated staff. Instead in Scotland all the MSM does is complain and moan. They are a disgrace.
The Fox that broke the Union’s back.
LBC Radio going mad on this.
A commentator suggesting that Nicola should be arrested!
Another suggesting that there now needs to be an English Parliament, with the Lords turned into the Federal part to deal with foreign affairs etc.
What the intervention of the SNP has done is shake up public opinion in England and some are now talking about changes to the constitution. About time.
Keep it up SNP.
I would recommend that Wingers keep an ear open on LBC as it is a litmus check of what is being talked about by the layer of public opinion that lays below Westminster. There’s an opportunity to participate in debate when Scotland is the subject.
If we can assist in kick starting the good people of England into talking about constitutional matters that will benefit Scotland then please contribute.
What I have noticed is that the MSM contributors are very resistant to change. No surprise there and I suggest that the debate and battle against the influence of the MSM needs to be taken into Westminster home territory, i.e. London Radio phone in. They won’t like that!
The tories have an outright mandate at Westminster, why didn’t they use it. The SNP are being blamed for the shortcomings of the tories and their inability to get their own act together. Cameron and the MSM desperate for a scapegoat when the blame is on their own doorstop.
I think the main reason for the fury is the realisation that they are powerless when it comes to the SNP. Labour, for example, was always worried about the right-wing press, and is currently demonstrated again, could be bullied.
But the London press can froth all it likes, the SNP constituency in Scotland is not listening.
@nick says: 14 July, 2015 at 9:22 pm:
“Foxes know no borders”
Neither do English Unionists, Nick. It cannot be acceptable to the non-English people in the United Kingdom that Westminster continues as the de facto parliament of England and that is even without this idiocy of their supremacist plans for EVEL.
idioticdave: I completely accept that Ms Sturgeon and the SNP were entitled, under the rules of Parliament, to do what they did, or were going to do. I have absolutely no complaints about that.
Says he, having spent screeds arguing Sturgeon and the SNP are idiots.
Exactly the sort of grandstanding crapology lowers standards and turns people away from contributing.
O/T but already mentioned. The Butcher’s Apron on the Driving Licenses. I have my new one but it only lasts three years. It has the Blue of the EU with “UK” in centre surrounded by the gold stars. It has my photograph and signature I submitted for my passport replacement to the British Embassy in Kuwait.
Fair enough.
The replacement with the BA is not a good idea. It is part of the plot to move us away from the EU at Cameron’s referendum. They don’t play fair do they?
The BA is not to be used on driving licenses in Northern Ireland! What price our Unitary State?
If I was sympathetic to the OO I would be very very displeased. Perhaps a petition by those stalwarts is required?
Hmm Robert Peffers, when I was a kid, it was fashionable for ladies to wear fox furs round their necks, not fox hairs. Horrible glassy eyed things, and very furry.
Regarding BBC Scotland and powers being reserved to Holyrood.
Why cant we have our own breakfast news programme shown on BBC Scotland.
From 6am until 9am the BBC have a breakfast programme and about 90% of it is on England only topics. Absolutely no relevance in Scotland.
We have a similar programme seven days a week, but it is on the radio. It’s called Good Morning Scotland. Why cant this format be changed over to the television studio.
Transfer the radio programme into the television studio every morning, seven days a week, from 6am until 9am.
I will be contacting my MP Mhairi Black and see if she can take this a bit further for me.
It would be good to get more people involved in this idea, so please ask your MP/MSP, BBC Scotland. Or even a petition.
Those out there with more savvy than me on this subject will hopefully take this on.
And they even have a ready made name for this new programme,
Good Morning Scotland!
Hmm Robert Peffers, when I was a kid, it was fashionable for ladies to wear fox furs around their necks, not fox hairs. Horrible glassy eyed things, but very furry.
Christian @8:14
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The MSM hate Scotland and the SNP because we don’t give a flying fuck what they say. Lousy press didn’t stop the 56 being elected, did it? They’ve insulted us so long and so badly that they have destroyed any power they might have had over us whereas Labour are so scared of the press that they have become totally impotent weathervanes (thanks MB).
That’s the bit I don’t get – what are they afraid of? The editor of the Guardian is not going to come round their house and beat them up. The worst the press can do is tell readers not to vote for Labour. If they’ve got decent policies and honest representatatives then voters will just ignore the papers and….. Oh
What they’re really afraid of is losing their place on the gravy train because that, ultimately, is all that most of them care about. That is why the MSM have power over them and not over the SNP and, like bullies everywhere, the media hate anyone who is not willing to be their victim.
From Previous Thread yesterday ref voting on the Fox.
I appreciate Ken500’s point/advice to SNP “don’t do it !”
Well Ken , maybe the SNP decision to proclaim their intention to vote against the Fox legislation and it’s consequecial withdrawal by the Tories was maybe a very , very good calculated decision by the SNP ?
It now annoys me that All this MSM crap is total pants as the SNP have not actually ,as yet , Voted on an English only matter.
Have the MSM Beeb etc asked the LabConLib parties on their Scottish constituent MP voting records on English matters ….. Now that is hypocracy as we all know a LabConLib MP voting was accepted.
@Giving Goose says:
“The Fox that broke the Union’s back.
LBC Radio going mad on this.
A commentator suggesting that Nicola should be arrested!
I would recommend that Wingers keep an ear open on LBC as it is a litmus check of what is being talked about by the layer of public opinion that lays below Westminster. There’s an opportunity to participate in debate when Scotland is the subject.”
ABSOLUTELY. I know it’s tough but it’s worth listening to sometimes – as Burns would say, “to see ourselves as others see us.” Sometimes the misinformation down there is shocking – so much so that I’ve phoned in myself to attempt to put a more accurate side across.
O/T On the subject of the riots a couple of years ago – I’m convinced that they never occurred in Scotland due to the fact we still had the EMA educational maintenance allowance. (I remember some young rioters were asked their reasons and they said it was because they took away their EMA). Young people need hope and our govt – depite being under the cosh – gives them that. I wonder what the saved costs on this was?
When I listen to Mhairi Black discussing real life and death issues like 1 in 5 children in her constituency going to bed hungry, and all Cameron and his Eton cronies are interested in is fox hunting, then I realise how little Scotland has in common with Westminster’s priorities.
Help ma boab! EVEL debate on radio scotland now
@Iain More says: 14 July, 2015 at 9:40 pm:
“Is that photo for real? It is pretty sick if it is!”
There is nothing about fox hunting that isn’t sick, Iain. Some of the old traditions these people follow are far more sick than that photograph.
They practice, “Blooding”, youngsters. This involves smearing the face of a young child with a piece of the first fox the youngster has witnessed being torn asunder by the hounds. How sick is that?
Then there is the bit they don’t talk about. If the fox makes it to ground in, for example an old badger set, the hunters have finished and this is where the, “Terrier Men”, come in. These come equipped with terriers, spades and guns.
They will fire their guns into the set and, if the terriers cannot reach the fox, they will dig the fox out and allow the terriers to dispose of the, probably injured by gunfire, fox. It wouldn’t even be sport if the foxes had guns to shoot back.
@sensibledave says: 14 July, 2015 at 9:51 pm:
Ernekid at 9:04 pm
“Even after everything that has gone on over the last couple of days, I find it absolutely astonishing that someone can still demonstrate that they haven’t a clue about what has happened!”
PISH! No further comment requires.
@thedogphilosopher says: 14 July, 2015 at 10:07 pm:
“So, pray tell, what are your thoughts on the great macaroni pie debate?”
Dave, the insensible, doesn’t think, Thedogphilosither.
He does exactly what his masters order him to do without question.
The UK Press is right wing thanks to Thatcher. She illegally and secretly handed the Press over to the right right wing, who supported her. Thatcher broke the Ministerial code and alllowed Murdoch to buy up Sun, News of the World and the Times. The Press was already owned/controlled right wing barons. Thatcher denied it at the time. Papers released under the ’30 year rule of secrecy’, officals secrets Act show she was lying. Harold Evans ex Times editor did an article in the Guardian recently. Westminster control the Press.The Guardian is the only paper with any independence of editorial because of it’s constitution. Cameron and Clegg put in Robocops to destroy the Print room and threaten the Editor. The Editor was promoted out of the way. Seems to have gone a bit barmy wanting to save the world.
Murdoch is crook who bribed public officials. He should be in jail. Under US Law companies can’t bride public officials, anywhere in the world.
Murdoch, Barclay Bros, Johnstone Press Murdoch, Desmond. dominated the Market, with a right wing agenda. Thatcher and her associates evaded tax and embezzle public money to make themselves incredibly wealthy. Thatcher was a crook and a liar, who secretly and illegally embezzled the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland, and swore her ministers to secrecy. The papers are there to prove it. Released under the 30 years Secrets Act, last year.
Without a free fair and balance Press/MSM there is no democracy.
I’m glad the SNP decided to vote on this matter, I hope the proposed changes to the Scottish hunting bill get fast-tracked to at least bring us into line with the rest of the UK. When stuck between a point of principle (not voting on English matters) and a point of morality (to never, not even tacitly, condone animal cruelty) then I’m glad the moral principle won out.
I’m curious though, if the Scottish GE results had been identical to that of the last parliamentary term, would the 52 Scottish Labour & Lib Dem MPs have voted against this proposal? I’m afraid I don’t know what their stance was on “English Only” matters. If they had voted against and defeated the bill, would we have the same outrage in the press?
@Cadogan Enright says: 14 July, 2015 at 10:07 pm:
““The SNP has indicated a desire to play an ever closer role in British politics. The good news is that this must make more certain a regime under which it cannot.” (Simon Jenkins, The Guardian)”
Anyone who knows me well knows that my main disagreement with the SNP’s policy has always been that they did chose not vote, on what the SNP Members, chose to designate as English only matters.
I have always held that as we, the electorate, elected them to represent us as Members of the United Kingdom Parliament, they are duty bound to take part in every matter, in that UK parliament. If it is being debated in a UK parliament it is, by definition, a United Kingdom matter.
I have no problems whatsoever with English Votes for English People. In fact I’ve always stood for English votes for, not just the English, per se, but for all people resident in England and registered to vote in English elections.
Just as long as they do so by voting in their own English Parliament exists outside of our United Kingdom Parliament.”
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The MSM hate Scotland and the SNP because we don’t give a flying fuck what they say.
The MSM merely reflect back at its readers what they believe, love, hate, lech over, vote for, worship.
Look at sensibledave up there, seething with tabloid fury at Scotland.
But he’s the usual toryboy’s toryboy that cant work out WTF is going in Scotland because he’s a rule britannia English man and Scotland is a different country, no matter how hard they love it and it hate and want to own it forever and ever and for the good of the sweaties too, who really do need England so much, so very very much, it hurts their feelings when some horrid sweaties tell them to get tae fudge.
Nearly there.
UK Government was supposed to consult the Scottish Government on the changes to the BBC coming up, and on the board that would oversee the BBC.
They haven’t and there are no Scots on the board.
@thedogphilosopher at 10:07 pm
Robert Puffers at 10.07
Sadly, I have never had the opportunity to partake of a macaroni pie. I like macaroni, and a I like pie – so I am, absolutely, definitely, pro-macaroni pie.
However, if it becomes politically advantageous for me to change my views on macaroni pies in the future, be assured I will do a “Sturgeon 180” then I will happily pretend otherwise. Particularly if 650 Italians write to me about cruelty to macaroni in Italy and plead for my help in stopping it.
sensibledave @ 10:02
If you are thinking of becoming a stand-up comic, my advice is don’t give up the day job.
‘The Fox that broke the ‘union’s’ back’
That is a class way to put it.
I wonder how long it will be before the papers completely lose the absolute plot? How long before cries of ‘kick the SNP out of Westminster’ or ‘shutdown the Scottish Parliament’ (which would have echoes of what happened in Ireland in 1919).
EVEL must be an almost Tory certainty now. After receiving at least 2 bloody noses from the SNP, the Tories must be ready to unleash Boris on the backbenchers and have them told to follow the ‘party line’. The PM has been bitch-slapped back into reality twice now in so many days, and therefore, not only is he being made to look weak, but so are the Tories …and that will just not do. To be made to look foolish so soon after the GE will not be tolerated.
So, this could get very interesting over the next few days if not weeks. I have no doubt now, that the Tory strategists will be studying their next move carefully. To lose a possible 3rd time could be potentially damaging.
And with a right wing media now frothing at the bit, it appears that they will now try to provoke the English Electorate into demanding ‘English Votes for English Legislation’. With a daily tsunami of SNP ‘outrage’, it might not take long before the English people demand their own laws; even if those laws (such as fox-hunting) actually go against the majority of what the people want. We may end up having people condemning the SNP, and thus become so blinded at what they are condemning, that they lose sight of what it was that they condemned against initially, and instead, find themselves voting for something that weakens their own position (by demanding the SNP not vote on English Legislation) and receive something that they didn’t want in the first place (a Tory government finally able to vote through things such as fox-hunting).
For the English Electorate, in there lies the trap that they have to be truly aware of!
Hilarious discussion on EVEL on GMS today (paraphrased):
Tory spokesperson:
” Yes of course it’s a fudge, but there is no hunger in England for an English parliament. Think of the expense, House of Lords is great, blah bla blah. Besides, what is so wrong with Scottish MPs staying in the tea room very occasionally?”
Caller:
“That’s what the English MPs are doing already – they go to the tea room then they come back and vote against the Scottish amendments!”
Yes another lie, like it was the SNP that downed the Labour Government and let Maggie Thatcher in, no doubt we will hear this one again and again and again 🙁
I would be interested to know the story behind the photograph?
MajorBloodnok says:
14 July, 2015 at 9:08 pm
🙂
You made my day!
Ah, I see, if you click on the image it takes you to a newspaper article with the full story.
How can we make more Scottish people aware of this level of hate towards us? The Scottish people need to be aware of what the RUK actually think of us. Newspapers that currently support independence (Herald, National to name 2) need to change their ‘subscription-only’ online presence and they need to publish these stories too. You’re doing a grand job, but I fear that not enough people see this site.
To those who advocate the SNP packing up and coming home.
As Mhari said yesterday, she has been listening intently to all the debates in WM.
This is absolutely crucial.
Anyone watching Parliament on a daily basis cannot fail to notice the SNP benches have had a decent sized presence in chamber from day one. No wonder the tories are getting irritated, wondering why the SNP are sitting in on everything!
They’re doing a grand job.
They’re not there to hang around the tea-rooms as so stringently put by stammering, stuttering Henry Hill, asst editor of Cons Home as per Call Kay (e) this morning. there’s no hunger for an English parliament says he, but can’t counter when asked what EVEL signifies if not a call for said parliament.
It’s turning into English Votes for Elephants Legs and all the SNP has to do is watch and wait till the increasingly cumbersome beast trips over it’s big flat feet.
Robert Peffers @ 9.43
Robert one of your, and many others here, oft repeated themes is that it is absolutely outrageous that a situation might be created where Scottish Constituency MPs are barred from voting in Westminster on matters pertaining only to England that this makes them second class MPs – yes?
Can you take a mo’ to explain to me why, as a for instance, Tommy Sheppard might be outraged that he wouldn’t be allowed to vote on say, fox hunting England (under EVEL) but, I assume, is perfectly content that he can’t vote on the same issue in Scotland because he is a second class MP?
Can you spare the lecture on 300 year old grievances BTW. But if you insist on raising them, could you advise us English on how whether we should bomb Scandinavia and Italy for atrocities committed by the Vikings and Romans – because its still a running sore with me.
EVEL will mean another big step towards independence for Scotland, and it will be unionists you’ll be instigating that step.
EVEL can only exist in a devolved English parliament and until such time as one exists they should concede that in successfully campaigning for Scotland to to stay in Union with England they must allow Scottish MPs their proper voice in Westminster which is after all the parliament for the whole of the UK.
The SNP or any elected Scottish MP of whatever flavour has every right to vote on any issue debated in Westmister and throwing the Unionist toys out of the pram shows how completely discombobulated they are in trying to deal with this cognitive dissonance they are currently suffering from.
Why the fuck we are creating a mountain out of a mole hill in giving creedence to the desires of the tiny minority of blood thirsty upper class twats that want to participate in the hunting of a wee animal I do not know; fuck you, you are not doing it, end of.
We know that George Osbourne et al are trying to recreate the halcyon days of a bygone age where the plebs knew their place and they are slowly eroding everything they see as a stumbling block to achieving that which is their ultimate goal.
We can never go back, we must never go back.
Murdoch, Barclay Bros, Johnstone Press Murdoch, Desmond. dominated the Market, with a right wing agenda.
Its just business Ken, always business. Its also a pain in the arse watching handwringing over the neo fascist UKOK press creep show. People buy it because they like it.
News of the Screws was the biggest Sunday seller. The socio economic history of England’s not changed since the days of their empire. In the 30’s great depression, middle class England broke strikes, driving buses and tube trains, manned factories, neo fascism and racism was and is part of life.
Tory Middle England creeps back fore from right to hard right but they do the voting and they are doing just fine under Westminster. SNP and Scotland is making them extremely sensitive to any real economic change in their country and Scotland is theirs.
Watch how Lab leader candidate Corbyn is routinely annihilated in every newspaper and tv studio. Middle England no likee.
Just received the book London Calling How the BBC stole the referendum. Have read several pages at different parts of the book and I remember each and every example of bias as if it were yesterday. Sickening to read considering that the BBC was the main voice in which project fear was delivered relentlessly whilst anything positive towards the YES campaign was either given mere seconds of a mention or completely ignored.
May I suggest that everyone who can obtain a copy do so. It can be bought in paperback or kindle form. The more folk who read it and probably especially soft YES or NO voters the better because we still face the same hurdle and lets face it the BBC was our greatest hurdle during the campaign for Scotland`s future! It never was the NO campaign.
Project fear didn`t start with the referendum campaign and it didn`t stop after either. The past couple of days have been interesting, I hope that we can continue to shake up the establishment in the same way and drive the debate forward in every part of the UK.
Still interesting times!
“The good news is that this must make more certain a regime under which it cannot”. (Simon Jenkins The Guardian)
So we Scots must be put down and kept down by a regime, whereby, our duly elected MP’s cannot vote against the Govts wishes or desires, irrespective of consequence?
Surely the Fracking debacle already proves that we ALREADY live under this regime, and this kind of vitriolic, colonialist, incitable journalism shows exactly what Unionist MSM is doing south of the border.
Given England has the majority of the population of the UK, it makes complete sense to try and use that majority to your best advantage. Incite hatred against anyone who opposes you.
I have been watching over the last 3 yrs where this is going and I fear it will not end well…no matter which part of the UK you reside in.
EVEL exists already. Scottish rep in Westminster is 10%. They can be outvoted every time. There is no West Lothian question. It’s a myth. Scottish votes at Westminster do not count. Scottish votes have only affect the outcome 0.6%. Not even 10%. There has been no Democracy in Scotland until 2000 Holyrood with limited powers. No taxation without representation. People in Scotland are taxed without full spending powers in line with majority wishes.
The National has it today. “Outfoxed” (Also page 2 in the Sun).
As sensible dave rabbits on to our increasing amusement he might like to reflect that in politics what matters is the result.
The SNP, as a genuine offer of respect, decided not to vote on “English only” issues. In response they have been rewarded with continuous insult and a level of derision that is unacceptable in any parliament far less the claimed “mother of democracy”.
GIRUY I say
JLT 10.09
… I was sort of with you all the way until you wrote…
“and instead, find themselves voting for something that weakens their own position (by demanding the SNP not vote on English Legislation) and receive something that they didn’t want in the first place (a Tory government finally able to vote through things such as fox-hunting). For the English Electorate, in there lies the trap that they have to be truly aware of!
In England, the centre right voted 41% Tory and and 14% UKIP i.e. 55% (its that number again). God forbid that the English electorate might end up with a centre right government when only a 55% majority voted for it.
The Tories can’t bring in these changes suggested. 20+ Tory/Unionists are against it. Some Tory/Unionsts do not want to break the Law. It breaks the Union terms of agreement of Scotland being treated equally. It was a PR stunt by Cameron to win the GE.
I just posted this on the previous thread, but as there’s a new thread up and Robert Peffers alluded to similar at 9:43am.
sensibledave
Apologies if I missed the focus of your discontent.
Indeed it’s a moot point, though I’m not certain this was an English only matter. I reckon it may have made it harder to tighten up Scotland’s legislation if the Tories had won a vote yesterday? I’m not suggesting this had anything to do with events, btw.
I agree that independence will be won through persuading No voters to change allegiance, but I think you may be underestimating us up here. We suffered Project Fear and so know a good scare story when we hear one. Sorry, but yours isn’t up to much, IMHO.
sensibledave says: SNP Bad.
Which is your usual daily spam. The sensible remains firmly locked into the name.
As to not voting on English only matters, no one made any cast iron promises its a guideline, a policy, and those change. Especially when all the amendments to the Scotland Bill are voted down by English MPs that dont even bother to turn up and debate them.
EVEL is a guaranteed upping of the stakes, its the very antithesis of better together, its an insistence that the UK is England plus some second class plebs, and that Westminster is England’s Parliament first and the UK second.
Its not going to help the Union.
post by “PrimitiveThouhts, Nowhere City, United Kingdom, 2 minutes ago” on Daily Mail website referring to Nicola Sturgeon. I have replied saying it is disgusting and the moderator should be criticised for allowing it.
Surely just one of these photographers can swap his long lens for a sniper rifle…
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3161704/Hypocritical-shameless-unprincipled-Sturgeon-s-stance-hunting-just-start-war-England-writes-CHRIS-DEERIN.html#ixzz3fx6kwpgg
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I’d say that was a pretty successful job done and exactly the outcome and reaction I’d hoped for. Westminster and the media has lost a huge part of Scotland and they don’t like it. No matter the howls of protest and onslaught of criticism, our representatives will do as they see fit and half of Scotland is now immune to the attacks.
I laughed at the Tories claiming this was a mistake by Sturgeon and had done the SNP damage. In whose eyes exactly? Sensibledave maybe….
For what it’s worth, not a single person in my London office has mentioned the situation and these are people who are quite actively interested in politics and know my views re: independence. In my personal experience, I don’t see many here who care about the subject or the fact the SNP would have voted on it. The biggest laugh being they didn’t actually have to.
If I was one of the 28 rebel Tory MPs determined to vote in line with the desires of the majority of my constituency and the UK I’d tell Boris to fuck right of and take his EVEL with him. Labour and the SNP don’t have the numbers to consistently vote down the government. Then again that’s just those opposed to the government in a free vote on this particular issue. If the government want to impose the whip then let them.
I seriously doubt that EVEL will be passed after this if the backbenchers have anything to do about it and exactly why Cameron wants it introduced. It’s not just the opposition from NI and Scotland he want’s neutralised, it’s his own party he wants to keep in line.
Reply to sensibledave
“Robert one of your, and many others here, oft repeated themes is that it is absolutely outrageous that a situation might be created where Scottish Constituency MPs are barred from voting in Westminster on matters pertaining only to England that this makes them second class MPs – yes?
Can you take a mo’ to explain to me why, as a for instance, Tommy Sheppard might be outraged that he wouldn’t be allowed to vote on say, fox hunting England (under EVEL) but, I assume, is perfectly content that he can’t vote on the same issue in Scotland because he is a second class MP?
Can you spare the lecture on 300 year old grievances BTW. But if you insist on raising them, could you advise us English on how whether we should bomb Scandinavia and Italy for atrocities committed by the Vikings and Romans – because its still a running sore with me.”
Romans, Danes, Norskies? It’s all ancient history and they are not constantly making up legal arguments to continue plundering us:0uUnlike the Anglo Normans with a strong feudal based class deference to the same ruling class since 1066.
I heard Radio EBC Scotland brackets discussing their Wet Loathing Question just now. One solution they put was a separate assembly for Engerland. England already have a Parliament. It is called Westminster and they are allowed to vote us going to war on peoples we have no quarrel with and being a nuclear target for their obsolete nuclear subs.
SensibleDave
You miss the point.
If the English Electorate finally do demand that EVEL is followed through, then by having Scottish MP’s barred from voting, then it means the Tories can vote through all their policies without real opposition.
This in effect means that policies such as fox-hunting, which is opposed by the English Electorate to what I believe to be 4 to 1 against, suddenly find the policy forced upon them because there in now no real opposition to the Tory agenda once the SNP are removed.
Hence my point that the English Electorate have to be very careful on EVEL. By suddenly being told to clamour for EVEL, they could blindside themselves by not realising that it is a Tory trap in which the English Electorate suddenly find themselves getting policies lumped on them without any opposition.
I don’t doubt that England voted for a right wing party …but do they truly understand what it is that they have voted for? If it was to keep the SNP out of government (SNP-Labour coalition), then in one sense, they sold their souls to prevent the outcome of something else. For half of Scotland, that left us not only perturbed (as well as disturbed), but it clearly ratified that Scotland will never get the government that it wants, unless England decides to go the same way. And that might not happen now …ever …since Harman, Burnett and Co are clearly ratifying a right wing agenda for Labour from this point on.
If EVEL is voted in, it really will be the beginning of the end. Even a good portion of ‘No’ voters from last years referendum will be distinctly disturbed should they suddenly realise the new political landscape and the complete realisation that they are now 2nd class citizens in a very unfair and unbalanced Union.
Quoted from David Cameron in today’s Dundee Courier :
“What we are proposing is relatively modest, it really is that you should not be able to legislate in the United Kingdom parliament against the wishes of English MPs.” (My bolding.)
That is about as bald a declaration of English Nationalism as you could get.
The UK parliament is the parliament of the United Kingdom, not of England. If other UK MPs manage to outvote some English UK MPs in the House of Commons on rare occasions (significantly less than 1% of the time) then that is ordinary UK parliamentary democracy in action; you win some, you lose some. More than 99% of the time English MPs get their own way in every matter that is presented in the HoC, so suck it up.
I didn’t notice English MPs holding back during the Scotland Bill divisions, they used their votes when and however it suited them, and they have no legitimate beef whatsoever against any other MPs in the HoC doing exactly the same thing.
@fionan says: 15 July, 2015 at 8:37 am:
“Hmm Robert Peffers, when I was a kid, it was fashionable for ladies to wear fox furs round their necks, not fox hairs. Horrible glassy eyed things, and very furry.”
Ah! Yes! Fionan, those with the wee plasticky clip thing as the fox mouth to fasten the thingy round the neck.
Do not follow this link unless you have a strong stomach. You have been warned.
The article is about China but there are Fox Fur Farms in Southern Ireland and they do as they like there as S. Ireland has no legal licencing system for Fox Fur Farms: –
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/381117/Animals-electrocuted-strangled-and-skinned-alive-The-true-face-of-China-s-fur-farms
Here’s a couple of wee facts – Most fox furs are from foxes reared in Fox Fur Farms. So as not to damage the fur the animals are slaughtered in a particularly cruel manner with an electric prod inserting up the animal’s rectum and this without and prior anaesthetics.
They are kept in tiny cages and these inside large barns
May I make a suggestion on EVEL?
As a simple step, the situation would be improved if there was a ring fenced England block grant.
The definition of an EVEL issue would become one where English MPs are spending their money.
The problem with current EVEL proposals is that they can do nothing other than relate to issues which will be financed out of the UK purse. All English expenditure is currently from UK funds. Scots must always have a say on UK money being spent.
If England had a block grant, many of the problems would disappear.
Xaracen says:
15 July, 2015 at 11:18 am
Quoted from David Cameron in today’s Dundee Courier :
“What we are proposing is relatively modest, it really is that you should not be able to legislate in the United Kingdom parliament against the wishes of English MPs.” (My bolding.)
______________
There is no English parliament, ergo there can be no English MPs, Nada, Nil, Zilch, fuck all!
@sensibledave says: 15 July, 2015 at 10:24 am:
“Robert one of your, and many others here, oft repeated themes is that it is absolutely outrageous that a situation might be created where Scottish Constituency MPs are barred from voting in Westminster on matters pertaining only to England that this makes them second class MPs – yes?
More utter pish, Dave, and if you paid attention and read more, instead of spouting ignorant pish, you would not only know far more truths but know the answers to the idiot’s questions you ask.
and still no sign of the ” wear the fox hat.”joke.
What’s the surprise? Everybody knows Fox News is biased.
Hat, coat anat.
I just wonder who has actually out-foxed who in relation to this EVEL stand-off?
We can say what we like about him but Cameron aint no mug and often comes across as a man who’s ten steps ahead of his opponent in a chess game such as winning the Election, exposing divisions in the Labour ranks / decimating Labour and proposing a resolution of EVEL on the day after the Referendum.
I would like to see foxhunting banned, in totality, north and south of the border as would most other normal thinking human(e) beings, however we know that this wasn’t about fox hunting per se and I’m just trying to figure out where the SNP are going with this …… a backlash for every SB amendment being voted down, ‘locking Cameron out of Downing Street’ by showing him that he can’t rely on his so-called majority, getting additional support from the anti-fox-hunting brigade or what?
Did David Cameron actually bring this fox-hunting issue up at this very opportune time (EVEL) knowing exactly what would happen or that no matter which way it went he would come out as a winner …. be willing to lose a battle to win the war?
If the SNP MPs had abstained the Bill would have gone through and many would then have castigated the SNP, especially their members, for being callous and uncaring or on the otherhand if they did exactly as they have done Nicola Sturgeon would be exposed as a liar (stated categorically that the SNP wouldn’t vote on EOLaws) and a hypocrite (not dealing with fox-hunting in Scotland) in particular with the many Scottish voters who have been sitting on the fence. Will this also impact on her popularity ratings down south which seem to have related to her, in the main, being seen to be totally above-board and honest?
If this was done to draw attention to the despicable way that the SNP MPs (Scotland in general) have been treated in the Commons in relation to for example the SB amendments being voted down / vetoes in place I don’t think it’ll work for no other reason than we know that the MSM will continue to suppress this information whereas they’ll have a field day with this fox-hunting issue which in turn will generate even greater support for their proposed EVEL plans.
Yes Petra, the suspicion that Cameron may have deliberately set that fox running occurred to me also.
I’m a Scot but not SNP, afraid they’re too arrogant and obsessed with themselves
Save the foxes!, ALSO. Stop game bird shooting, Deer stalking and Salmon Fishing. Oh, but that would effect Scotland. Can’t do that then. I support independence, but not with SNP running the country. Yes, they have pulled the Tories up short, but have done a lot of damage to the reputation of Scotland and Scots by their double standards. While we’re at it, why don’t we stop all the Anti English Rhetoric, which ironically, makes Scots sound like “little Englanders” We don’t need to be racists, it doesn’t become us.
“I’m a Scot but not SNP, afraid they’re too arrogant and obsessed with themselves”
That’s nice, dear.
“I support independence, but not with SNP running the country.”
Then after independence, vote for someone else.
AUNTIE STU’S AGONY PAGE – PROBLEMS SOLVED WHILE YOU WAIT.
Hi Bill Mcreadie.
You typed,
“While we’re at it, why don’t we stop all the Anti English Rhetoric”
Please, don’t just come on this site and muck spread. You need to back up your assertion with hard facts.
Would you care to furnish us with a link or three that supports your accusation?
Petra & Chic , agreed .
The Fox Bill was raced forward.
My only counter to that thought is that with the SNP bluff on their intention to vote ? DC pulled the fox off the table to avoid defeat . Perhalps defeat would have given his case for EVEL more strength .
Removing the Fox bill then prevented SNP actually voting on an EO matter.
Doubt we will ever know.
Technically the SNP can still claim they have NOT voted on EOM .
Meantime MSM etc are going bla bla bla about the 180 deg U turn of Sturgeon.
SNP are not in WM to make up the Numbers. In fact I’d go so far as to suggest they are the majority in most debates. The Chamber is very devoid of MPs in general and has been as far back as I can recall.
Go Nicola, Just loving the stramash that this is causing. But is not funny how we never heard anything when Westmonster mps went out their way to block proposals put forward for further devolved Powers to Scotland. Get used to it because there is way more to come. And remember we are better together lol
McReadie: why don’t we stop all the Anti English Rhetoric,
If that’s all you hear you should get new friends.