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Wings Over Scotland

The end of the beginning

Posted on October 01, 2014 by

Wings stats for September, for those keeping score.


Things should be interesting from here.

The big number on that chart is the 911,054 unique readers. That’s a massive 354,154 extra compared to August – a 61% increase –  and well over 650,000 more than July. (And that’s despite averaging under two posts a day for the last couple of weeks.) Pageviews have more than doubled in two months.

Where we go from here remains to be seen. It seems inevitable that numbers will fall significantly (especially as we’re still on holiday for a week and a half), but how far? The Yes movement shows no signs of dying off. There’s a very plausible three-year scenario for a second bite at the cherry. The mainstream media and the main political parties have never been more discredited and despised.

It’s going to be fun finding out.

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    1. 01 10 14 12:07

      The end of the beginning | FreeScotland

    205 to “The end of the beginning”

    1. Brian Powell says:

      A stronger Yes movement is emerging, we still need the information and try harder to get it out there. Focused on specific issues now. Highlighting the lies, getting the alternative mainstream media out their, getting to older voters.

      Many No voters now have no reason not to support maximum powers for Scotland.

    2. Morag says:

      The depth of the betrayal of Scotland is mindboggling, and should be clear to everyone less than two weeks on from the referendum. Brown goes from guaranteeing something described as devo-max or near-federalism, to suggesting people might like to sign someone else’s internet petition that was started 10 days before he mentioned it. I still can’t quite believe he did that.

      Voters should be looking out their pitchforks and getting the claymores out of the thatch by this time. But they’ll only do that if the situation is explained to them by the media, and you get one guess whether that will happen.

    3. Doug Daniel says:

      At the Radical Independence Aberdeen meeting last night, I was asked what the future plans for Wings were, so you’d better not be thinking we’re letting go of you yet, Stu!

    4. Scots Renewables says:

      We need Wings – and you – to carry on, and I am sure plenty of us will be prepared to fund that so you can keep the rats in the style to which they have become accustomed.

      . . . but we also need some sort of new media initiative that incorporates TV and print.

      Any news on anything like this happening?

    5. Bobby McPherson says:

      Love Wings. Hope you’re having a fabulous holiday. Come back refreshed invigorated and ready to smash whatever is left of the horrid union.

    6. Mosstrooper says:

      Hi Stu,

      Do you need more cash for wages, expenses etc? The struggle’s nowhere near over so let us know what is needed. There’s a good chap.

    7. David O'Neill says:

      Isnt it possible to plan a series of public meetings like the 12th Oct Tommy Sheridan event. He has been reinstated in the eyes of the public who want reassurance from him and others like Robin who kept the energy and hope alive within us all. Even now we want to continue the fight!

    8. Kev says:

      Startling figures Stu. I don’t think they’l dip too much tho – plenty of folk out there have cancelled or are planning to cancel their TV licenses and will never read a newspaper again – they’l need a new news source so Wings etc. will remain an essential part of that for the years ahead…

    9. Seamie shamrock says:

      One main group of voters we missed as a group were OAPS we had iwomen for Indy we had. Genx and many more seems we ignores our OAPS . Big error can we amend our ways and now include them may alter the 45%+ in our favour

    10. galamcennalath says:

      I’m certain Wings has a big, and ultimately successful, future ahead of it.

      I note the petition is now at 8687 and increasing nicely.

      Everyone who feels strongly should sign it and send the right message to those who have sold out their country.

    11. Calum Craig says:

      We have paid you until at least February, haven’t we?

    12. Alex Clark says:

      @Calum Craig

      LOL I think we got our moneys worth even if he quit tomorrow.

      I think in the past month or two those who were active all felt the pressure and the stress. Well imagine that tenfold and that might not even come close to the pressure the Rev must have felt.

      Great stats, no doubt there will be a drop off, what will be left though will be a real hard core support. They will be many.

    13. One_Scot says:

      I am convinced there has to be another vote soon. It is just plain wrong that a referendum as important as Scottish Independence can be manipulated and won by lying to the voters about the outcome of a No vote.

      The more I think about it, the more unbelievable it seems. It’s almost Matrix like.

    14. One_Scot says:

      I’m almost beginning to wish I had taken the Red pill, or was it the Blue one. I can never remember.

    15. Murray McCallum says:

      Has any of the usual suspects speculated that Stuart has set himself up as 900,000 users and looks at 10 pages through each individual user?

    16. crisiscult says:

      I don’t often say this but ‘just tell me where to send the money!’

      As additional motivation, as if you need it: think it was Sec of State for Defence on Radio Scotland today, getting the interview treatment from Gary Robertson as was appropriate for such a person i.e. forelock tugging deference (contrast with interview technique for Nicola Sturgeon or Alex Salmond – eh, sorry, Sturgeon and Salmond). Anyway, on topic of Trident and making contingencies, a confident response was that this was a once in a generation decision already clearly stating that [read between lines here] Scots have endorsed trident and should belt up cos you had your chance. Sorry Sir, but many of us will not be belting up. You may have scared some pensioners and mobilised your 20% or whatever of people in Scotland that are Brit nats and would probably support you bombing just about any country, but how many of us are going to do anything within the law to see your Imperial dreams proceed without Scotland?

    17. Dcanmore says:


      Problem is if you have another one soon then those forces of manipulation will win again. By soon, if you mean within five years, then yes, but new approaches have to made to gain a majority for YES and I believe that can be done within a five-year timeframe. But first I think we need to perform a hat trick of major gains with GE2015, SE2016 and SLA2017 and then mandate for a snap referendum (no more than six weeks campaigning this time), but for us independence supporters the new campaign starts now.

    18. Morag says:

      Stu did include running costs through to the New Year in the last fundraiser, and he got over £6,000 from the Scotsman. I believe the £10,000 donation that was also mentioned might kick in about now too.

      But really, it’s all irrelevant. I know Stu said he spent half the Scotsman’s involuntary donation on the Wee Blue Book. If more money is needed, I can’t imagine there will be a problem.

    19. Training Day says:

      ‘The mainstream media and the main political parties have never been more discredited and despised.’

      Precisely why your continued presence is a must. And once they see Wings, the overwhelming majority of readers tend to stay..and there will be more coming besides..

    20. A.N.Surgent says:

      Looks like you are on a busmans holiday Stu.

      Borrowing from Japans imperial empire in WW 2.

      We now live in “The Great North Britain Co-Poverty Sphere”

    21. crisiscult says:

      I’d also like to fund a redesign of the site, if Rev is not opposed. For example, many of us still like to get information from MSM at least to see what’s going on, but by clicking on their sites we are generating income for them. An ‘in the news today’ section with archived texts or links to pages that are not the newspaper’s webiste would be great. Also, as someone suggested, perhaps a forum that seperates out general chit chat from stuff that is really useful to be linked to, petitions, group causes, etc.

    22. Grizzle McPuss says:

      Could we please have a running update with progress re: Independent Scottish Broadcasting campaigns…and other forms of new independent media?

    23. JBS says:


      Wish fewer people had taken the Better Together pill. You know, the sedative, the one that lulls people into believing that the UK really is the best of all worlds.

    24. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      You know what, events dear boy.

      Somehow I just know these donkeys will take their eye of Scotland, something will occur which will open the door for us and we will flood past their defences into the dark heart of Kingdom, like evolved but still bloodthirsty, Orks.

      I give it 18 to 24 months.

    25. Cumoangerraff says:

      One simple way of keeping the campaign in the public eye would be for us all to replace our car tax discs with Yes discs. As of today the tax disc is redundant, so what better to place in the bottom corner of our windscreens? Onless someone can come up with a ‘don’t blame me, I voted yes’ roundel.

    26. Dr Ew says:

      We’d have been buried back in the spring if it hadn’t been for Wings and other pro-independence sites. You’re creating a new model for news media in this part of the world, Stu and as the print media crumbles over the coming years you will only grow stronger.

      Best wishes for future success.

    27. Haggis Hunter says:

      Many people are now questioning mainstream media, especially the BBC and tabloids.
      Wings has a very important, if not more important than ever, the purpose of media watch

    28. ecruden says:


      agreed, it’d be awesome to be able to comment on MSM internet sites without generating revenue for them.

    29. Colin says:

      The figures will inevitably slip, but that is alright because nearly 1,000,000 people know they can come back anytime they want or are needed, dipping in and out as they wish.
      A readership of nearly a million is a mighty political force in Scotland.

    30. Les Wilson says:

      Great stats, the future is likely to move stats down for a wee while until we get something to motivate and inspire us again.

      O/T listening to the ” call Kaye” show for a wee while this morning, there is a potential hornets nest opening up. Councils are going after people who had not registered before.

      Seeking unpaid poll tax from 25 years ago, people who have unpaid bills on almost anything are likely to be pursued.
      My problem here is our information can be passed on to third parties for any reason. They get from the electoral roll, either getting the info free or paying for it.

      So those who registerd simply because of the Referendum are now to be punished, some will be the poorest people others will be objecters, and there were many of them in Scotland from that time.

      However, also annoying that once companies have this info they can target you in many ways over and above chasing debts. More spam mail will be dropping through letter boxes etc.
      I do not thing a democratic process should be used as a debt recovery vehicle, it should not be available for this misuse. It is anti democratic, and those who registered, are sure to not do so again.

      Is it a coincidence that many will be YES supporters?
      I do not think so, this is a punishment, against which we must be heard. Where’s Tommy Sheridan……..

    31. Midgehunter says:

      These stats highlight the massive deficit that the YES Alliance has had and still has in communication.

      For lack of any credible news source in the MSM/broadcasters, (SH the exception), many people have turned to the internet medien for information. WOS, Bella, B for Scot. etc. have done a fantastic job, in spite of restricted resources and ways, in getting facts out to those seeking the truth. 🙂

      IMHO, one fact is absolutely clear for the next three years (till Indy!), our no. 1 priority is the creation of a 24/7 TV + radio broadcaster which is available at the touch of a button in every household. Collaboration..!

      Parallel we need a daily (7 day) newspaper + SH. This probably the financially cheaper way to get information distributed. Sponsors..!

      This will also vastly improve the speed in which we can get Info out to the mass of people.

      A potential 1.6 mill. and more Yessers + DKs + disappointed are hungry for genuine info.

      Everything else is content, in other words WHAT do we want to say but we have to get the how sorted out.

    32. Calum Craig says:

      I *was* jesting BTW, I’m not that much of a dick!

    33. Papadox says:

      Where is Cameron getting all the money for enriching London & ENGERLAND. AS Andrew Niel said where is all this money coming from that Cameran is going to be spraying about.

      Cameron was in shetland to see where the massive amounts of money are coming from.

      For all the NOs “ITS OUR OIL THAT THEY ARE GETTING THE MONEY FROM” and we won’t get much back. We are not to stupid, WELL 1600000 ar’nt .

      Let’s see how this ends up?

    34. Morag says:

      The trouble with setting up new media outlets is getting people to access them. People don’t buy the Daily Record for its political analysis, they buy it for its dumbed-down celebrity gossip and the football. Similarly, people are watching TV for the entertainment programmes and then the news comes on.

      Concentrating purely on news journalism isn’t enough. Indeed I don’t know what could be enough to tempt the average white van driver away from his red-top tabloid of choice. Or to persuade the average unengaged viewer to switch to a different channel for his news input.

    35. AnnieMac says:

      Wings Over Scotland has been an inspiration to so many people throughout the Yes campaign. It must continue in some form. I would never have navigated the MSM lies and obfuscation if I hadn’t found Wings and Stu’s deadly intellect.

      There are a number of moves afoot to start up ‘clean’ newspapers, a radio station and TV channel. Given the success of past Wings Over Scotland crowd funding and the present high level of interest in the site it seems likely that it could evolve into a major news source. Interesting times indeed!

    36. Robert Louis says:

      In the spirit of making life easier for all of us, and also enhancing to a considerable degree, the prospects for active participation in ‘events’, could people who post on here, mentioning planned ‘events’, please include the relevant details, links etc.

      As I keep pointing out, there are lots and lots of people not on facebook or twitter. We bemoan the fact that many voters voted NO because they didn’t have access to the information, well I’m a YES campaigner, and voted YES, yet I cannot find the information on ‘events’.

      I keep seeing mention of a 45 group, yet I know nothing about it, the demos in Glasgow and Edinburgh last weekend, again I knew nothing about. Somebody above has mentioned an event with Tommy Sheridan on 12th Oct, but where? (not picking on you btw)

      Let’s all try to help each other, and if we know of an important event, or talk about it here, include a link or some details. 🙂

      In other news, David Cameron has promised that if elected, the Tories will scrap the human rights act (we’ll be just like Iran, N.Korea and China), and introduce a new British Bill of rights – of course completely missing the fact that the original ‘bill of rights’ of 1689, was an English only bill.

      There has never been a Scottish bill of rights. Perhaps in their pig ignorance of Scotland, Westminster are thinking of the Scottish claim of right of 1689 – a document which has been repeatedly updated, and is a very different beastie to the English bill of rights.

      And to think we could be shot of ALL this crap, if enough had voted YES..(sighs)

    37. Robert Louis says:

      In the spirit of making life easier for all of us, and also enhancing to a considerable degree, the prospects for active participation in ‘events’, could people who post on here, mentioning planned ‘events’, please include the relevant details, links etc.

      As I keep pointing out, there are many, many people not on facebook or twitter. We bemoan the fact that many voters voted NO because they didn’t have access to the information, well I’m a YES campaigner, and voted YES, yet I cannot find the information on ‘events’.

      I keep seeing mention of a 45 group, yet I know nothing about it, the demos in Glasgow and Edinburgh last weekend, again I knew nothing about. Somebody above has mentioned an event with Tommy Sheridan on 12th Oct, but where? (not picking on you btw)

      Let’s all try to help each other, and if we know of an important event, or talk about it here, include a link or some details. 🙂

      In other news, David Cameron has promised that if elected, the Tories will scrap the human rights act (we’ll be just like Iran, N.Korea and China), and introduce a new British Bill of rights – of course completely missing the fact that the original ‘bill of rights’ of 1689, was an English only bill.

      There has never been a Scottish bill of rights. Perhaps in their pig ignorance of Scotland, Westminster are thinking of the Scottish claim of right of 1689 – a document which has been repeatedly updated, and is a very different beastie to the English bill of rights.

      And to think we could be shot of ALL this crap, if enough had voted YES..(sighs)

    38. HandandShrimp says:

      The next 6 months are going to be pretty busy. The Smith Commission will produce materially pretty quickly and we need to analyse and lobby to make sure that we don’t get completely screwed over. If there are strands of gold in the proposals then we need to tease them out and make sure they are delivered, all the while with a full eye on the election and a clear vision as to what we do if we are sold short. In the process we may see Catalonia secure a Yes vote and watch the EU spin in the wind.

    39. Robert Louis says:

      Les Wilson,

      Companies do NOT have an automatic right to access the electoral register and use it for marketing. That is optional, when you fill in the registration form.

      As regards these councils chasing things from 25 years ago, they are deliberately trying to interfere with the democratic process. Would not surprise me, if most were Labour councils.

    40. Graeme Doig says:


      Not surprised in the least at the figures. People are hungry for the kind of info this site provides by you and all the learned wingers. I have learned much on this journey from all you good folks. Thank you.

      Like a previous poster mentioned, just tell us what you need to continue the fight.

      We’re right with you mate.


      The NNS petition still only sitting at just over 800. What’s that all about? I know folk have talked about the point of signing petitions re the ‘vow’ but i still think we should be supporting this. We need to use every outlet to show that we have not gone away IMHO.

      (first time IMHO user. Not sure i’ll do it again)

    41. Calgacus says:

      Congratulations Rev.Stu. This website is really taking off.At this rate of expansion I really don’t think that we have to worry about setting up alternatives as soon we’ll all be Wingers.

      Please do let us know when you require more crowdfunding as this blog is absolutely essential reading.

    42. DrewSword says:

      One year ago the decimation of the Labor Party in Australia by the Murdoch press was replicated in Scotland by the MSM and the BBC. Downright lies and smear were the order of the day
      My take on the future of the independence movement in Scotland is that the MSM are not going away or going to change its tune. The BBC certainly will not let up on its denigration of the Scots and the Scottish people which is quite evident even here in Australia where the ABC are just a clone of the BBC.
      Getting up a mainstream newspaper to challenge the DR, The Scotsman and their like will take years and pots of money.
      Why not consider community newspapers. WOS to build a template for use by the yes communities the length and breadth of Scotland to print and circulate, taking their news from WOS, NNS, Bella Caledonia and the like. Local news they gather themselves. I note that there are plans for a monthly magazine to be produced by Bella and other worthies However I am concerned at the possibility of talking down to the ordinary folk. Sad to say the news I’m thinking of has to be in short pithy bites along the lines of ‘Go F**k yourself Gordon.=

    43. Graeme Doig says:

      Robert Louis

      Totally agree. We really need some mechanism for effective info re events/demos.

      Like most folk i have lots of family commitments but really want to get involved in as much as i can. I need the info so i can negotiate with my good lady (she’s very supportive of the cause so that’s not a big issue :)) and sort out work commitments.

    44. liz says:

      @Morag I know Rupert Murdoch’s name is mud to some people but he said that ages ago.

      I remember an interview with David Dimbleby when Dave was criticising page 3 and Murdoch said – u know how it works, the BBC puts on popular progs just before the news.

      Dimbleby’s face was a picture.

      BTW I’m not suggesting page 3, although some of the younger ones on twitter kept posting the sexy Salmond photo – pink sunglasses and saying things like – hello ladies!1

    45. Fiona says:

      I do not agree with the rather patronising comments about the tabloid readership which are in evidence here. I would argue the opposite, in fact. It seems perfectly clear to me that there is a hunger for good, factual journalism as evidenced by the very stats we are considering. There is evidence from the success of the campaign itself in engaging enormous numbers of people.

      Where people perceive themselves powerless then they do disengage and seek entertainment; for perfectly rational reasons. But that is not true where they feel they can make a difference and that their views have a platform.

      There are a lot of people who do not use the internet and they have not had the experience of a representative media: but even they are turning from the MSM, judging by the decline in newspaper sales.

      Some folk here criticise other posters for “turning off” certain sections of the electorate through aiming at a left wing vote or failing to target the elderly, for example. But for me the elitist attitudes betrayed by the condescension towards those with no access to social media is far worse than any of those.

    46. iheartScotland says:

      There are 1.6 million potential buyers for a pro indy ‘traditional’ newspaper. Online and paper, surely there is a business case for such a thing.It won’t be easy, but I’m first in line to buy a copy…

    47. fred blogger says:

      imo yes is a movement for social justice, and our focus towards the MSM should be on achieving it.
      ie “The Chancellor’s hidden blow to disabled people.

      The Chancellor’s Conference speech contained a statement about disabled people and benefits which was misleading, but went largely unchallenged by the mainstream media. Mr Osborne promised a two year freeze on working age benefits if the Conservatives are re-elected but made a point of saying, “disability benefits will be excluded”. Is that true?

      Well, it all depends on what you consider to be a disability benefit. Included in the proposed freeze are people who receive Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) and are part of the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG). These are people who the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) have decided are not fit for work at the moment, but are required to undertake work related activity, with a view to returning to work in future.

      The public would probably assume that this group was for people who had had an accident or injury from which they would soon recover, or an illness which was expected to get better. No doubt that’s what most of the audience in the conference hall who applauded the Chancellor’s speech would think, if they thought about it at all.”
      many people with incurable deteriorating sicknesses and disabilities are placed in WRAG.
      the insane mantra that is used is “focus on what you can do rather than what you can’t do.”
      it’s like saying that one is able reach the bedroom light switch in a house from down stair’s!?
      like to do most things one does not have to move about and get there, where ever there is.
      there is no provision for having to get oneself in position, to carry out a task.

    48. Grizzle McPuss says:

      History does teach us that through perseverance and belief in ourselves, we can achieve.

      The sooner we streamline the various grass-root YES groups, protest campaigns and bloggers into a coherent unified voice the better.

      Surely we can organise into a movement that progresses forward with a single voice, one that can be negotiated with and absorbed by the leading Independence parties as being reflective of what the everyday man & woman on the street desires?

      (I more than often loose faith in political parties whereby they do tend to take their eye off ‘our ball’ and follow their own pre-set agenda. They have their place, but so too do the various minions still out there screaming to be heard)

      Right now, the internet is just a huge mash up of ‘noise’…a fractured, dis-jointed, but well-intentioned movement that is heading, haphazardly, in the same direction.

      The YES campaign and its leader are now being mentioned in septic tones, held up as having not quite put the message across that everyone wanted and not in a manner that hit hard enough.

      The huge grass root support that has arisen needs to become better organised, disciplined and above all, clear in it’s objectives for the next 2 years+. I’d say we are ‘Better Together’, but fear choking on one of my own fur-balls at the thought.

      Perhaps WoS could take on the task of instigating the task that is required? From my short time on this site I have noticed that there are a hell of a lot of very sussed folks who could help make it happen.

      I’ll go back to playing with my dead mouse while you all peruse these thoughts.

    49. Robert Louis says:

      As regards setting up new media, there is of course the new partnership between Bateman and Newsnet Scotland, which should be good. Then there is the dateline Scotland guys.

      My main suggestion however, relates to all the main pro indy sites working together. For example, say Bateman/Newsnet started doing radio (which a lot of people DO listen to), then it would be great to have input from all the sources. Newsnet Scotland did a thing during the referendum campaign, whereby they made their articles freely available to be reproduced on other sites. I like that.

      Perhaps when we are all digging into our pockets to provide funding, we should ensure, that whoever it is, makes a firm commitment to work with other pro indy sites, and have a genuine commitment to share content across media platforms – not just vague assertions of a willingness to co-operate. So far only Newsnet seems to have made such a firm commitment. Time for others to follow suit – if they want my dosh, anyway.

      I do look forward to having the ability to switch on a radio in the morning to listen to a genuine Scottish news broadcast, instead of the utter pro Britannia pish we get from the blatantly biased BBC in Scotland. Just imagine, a genuine Scottish six, with no BBC involvement whatsoever.

    50. FergusMac says:


      I was just thinking about the fitba in the context of a new Scottish media. The problem is that BBC Scotland and the MSM actually do have decent coverage.

      It must surely be the case that there are Yes people at every game in the country, so we could get match reports without any problem.

      We would need press credentials for someone to interview managers, attend press conferences and write background articles. This may well involve paying one or two experienced people to do the job, at least on a part-time basis.

      This point would also be relevant to political correspondents, who would need access to Holyrood and possibly Westminster. I wonder how difficult it would be to get press passes for some of our bloggers?

    51. HandandShrimp says:

      Given the tax give away that Dave is promising I think George will up at nights trying to work out what else he can cut to pay for it.

    52. A.N.Surgent says:

      Robert Louis

      Quite a few on here. Hope over fear rally 12-3 PM George Square
      12 oct

    53. A.N.Surgent says:

      Having sooo much trouble posting.

    54. Illy says:

      Might be time to switch that graph to a log scale.

    55. Onwards says:


      The trouble with setting up new media outlets is getting people to access them. People don’t buy the Daily Record for its political analysis, they buy it for its dumbed-down celebrity gossip and the football. Similarly, people are watching TV for the entertainment programmes and then the news comes on.

      This is a good point.
      And perhaps why this site should concentrate on is facebook page more.

      Like it or not, FAcebook is the nearest internet equivalent to a daily tabloid newspaper.

      Importantly, it has a ‘push’ format.

    56. Graeme Doig says:


      Thanks for that link.

    57. Robert Louis says:

      A.N. Surgent.

      You illustrate the problem entirely, by posting a link to a facebook page, full of links to other facebook accounts.

      Many, many people do not use facebook. Posting info on facebook, helps people on facebook, and nobody else. If that is what those people wish to achieve, then that’s ok.

      What’s wrong with using the grown up proper internet?? Like here?

    58. HandandShrimp says:


      I would tend to agree, Facebook Timeline feeds trundle a hell of lot before my weary vision…oft times whether I will or no….thank the heavens those disturbing adverts for body building tablets (body distortion?) seem to have disappeared.

    59. A.N.Surgent says:

      To get into tory blab fest accredited journalists had to pay £800.
      Hows that for free speech. Got a half hour time lag when posting.

    60. ClanDonald says:

      Oh look, what do we have here: it’s John McTernan claiming that the tories are destroying the UK pension system.

      I thought pensions were safe in the UK, John?


    61. Illy says:

      Robert Louis:

      Totally agree. I’m very tech-savvy, and I can’t *stand* facebook. (Or G+, or Twitter, for that matter, the only difference between them is who sells your details, and that Google has competent engineers)

      Network effects *suck*. (They sucked for Betamax as well)

    62. Valerie says:

      How utterly disgusting, Cameron wants to abolish Human Rights legislation, that will be because so many have used it against this Govt.

    63. Kevin evans says:

      The only thing that worrys me is the longer this goes on the more folk will forget – that was there tactic – to buy time – mainstream media bias broadcasting and the lack of anything less than Devomax from the vow must be keep in people’s minds.

    64. Re print media the SH editor might be able/willing to assist in providing a pullout supplement or some other assistance.

      Re Tommy. He’s on tomorrow talking with Livestream.

    65. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Remind me please who was it who wrote the EU HR legislation?

      Something in the back of mind says it was the British but, were they Tories?

    66. Tîm Criced i Gymru says:

      So…PM DC says (recovering from a rather uncomfortable little cold sweat): “…referendum ‘was nerve-wracking’…” !!! Well, we Celts have a response to that…”You ain’t seen NOTHING yet !!!”.
      By the time this campaign has finished with the british state, he’ll be in a straight jacket, next bed to ‘Ally, Darling’ and Big Brown Bear …and being spoon-fed by Nursey Ruthie, Matron of the ‘Imperial Home of Fame & Failure’. I’ve heard so much tripe spewed out by all ‘n sundry on the unionist side these last months , but this morning’s words of wisdom from Cammy-wrong regarding Ruth Davidson are by far the most incredible uttered – I am now rendered speechless by having given myself lock-jaw with the hyper-extension of my gape!

    67. Robert Louis says:

      You know, I was thinking about Scottish broadcasting, and it occurred to me, that once we have our own proper Scottish broadcasting, the news will just be called ‘The News’. There will be no need to call it ‘Scottish news’ or ‘News from Scotland’. If you visit any other country, say Sapin, the main news bulletin is not called reporting Spain, or Spanish news, it is just called News (Las noticias, I think). So, if we eventually do set up proper Scottish news broadcasting (radio or TV), then it will simply be called ‘THE NEWS’. The word ‘Scotland’ will become redundant in that context.

      We have become so used to the parochial, colonial, biased trash from the BBC in Scotland, that the notion of our own genuine Scottish news from a Scottish perspective, seems and sounds almost alien.

    68. These Stats are Stunning.

      Thanks to WoS I forfeited my Daily and Sunday Broadsheet, but I seem to be less informed than before, not surprisingly.
      Have bought Sunday Herald only – in past few months.

      I also totally refuse to Fund access to MSM Websites.

      Therefore, most of us RELY totally upon “Wingers” or Rev Stu to fill the void.
      (Allowing for the fact he needs a brek).

      BamCam never once mentioned his “Boundary Change Legislation” – nor did anyone at Conf.?
      Can anyone enlighten me – OR – Is this another discarded “Pledge” from a lying bastard Tory PM.?

      When the Spanish Govt can INSTRUCT the Spanish Courts to REFUSE the Catalans their Indy Ref – it sets an invidious precedent versus a regions right – to”Self Determination” within a democracy – and opposes their Human Rights.
      WHILE the EU stays stoically – SILENT.?

      BLAB Politicians like Jack Straw MP demands WM Legislation to BAR Scots from ever again holding an Indy Ref.
      So much for his form of “DEMOCRACY”.?

      Gandhi and Mandela wid be proud of Straw who eulogised both. In a healthier political clime.

      Scots need to watch Straw and the events in Spain with ALARM.

    69. Robert Louis says:

      A.N Surgent,

      The posting time lag is caused when the data has to be read, collated and checked by GCHQ in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England, who then pass the details over to the CIA in Langley, Virginia, USA, who then feed it back to the wordpress servers. All of that takes time. 🙂

    70. Robert Peffers says:

      @Morag says:1 October, 2014 at 1:06 pm:

      “Concentrating purely on news journalism isn’t enough. Indeed I don’t know what could be enough to tempt the average white van driver away from his red-top tabloid of choice. Or to persuade the average engaged viewer to switch to a different channel for his news input”

      Well Morag, I’ll give you a couple of clues. I used to love Scottish football and even after actually going to a Saturday match would look forward to the Scottish Sport on a Saturday Evening TV. If I couldn’t make it to a match I would listen to a favourite team’s game on Radio Scotland, (or the Home Service as they once called it. Then it got that the game would be a foreign match from England so now I neither attend matches not bother to view or watch foreign teams.

      Carry that fact over to entertainment and with few exceptions it became entertainment from England, pop music, classical, rock, whatever – it is all from England. With only minor exceptions even the soaps are from England but notice the obligatory disabled, coloured, sexual orientated, Scottish, Irish or Welsh character is present in all such English based shows. The exceptions rather than the rule. Good grief we have more Australian soaps than Scottish. I was told that some channel had even started a new version of the old Aussie Cell Block H again. All probably good but not Scottish. Even out languages and dialects are being eroded. My native Lallans is becoming rarer and I find fewer people to speak with in the language I think in as every year passes.

      Before I chucked in watching TV altogether I was watching mostly Channel 8, BBC ALBA, and I do not speak a word of the Gaelic. The Radio is just about as bad with endless pop-stations that all seem to be playing the exact same tune all day and all night, (they all sound the same to me anyhow). Scottish Culture has been sneered at and downplayed for as long as I can remember and I have an excellent memory.

      So something like BBC Caesar! but with more Lallans, Doric and plain English rather than regional English culture and Scottish News by real Scottish people and not Westminster lackeys. With everything including adverts relevant to Scotland. You would think we have no Scottish writers, musicians or actors in Scotland. Think I’m kidding? What the hell was John Barrowman doing being a leading figure in the Glasgow Games?

      Here’s a typical example. The regularly advertise kitchen/bathroom/dishwasher/laundry products that include lime scale busting ingredients – we have soft water in Scotland that needs no lime scale busting ingredients.

    71. scotsbob says:

      I shall be donating the money saved from my TV license to the next fundraiser for this site. Perhaps others may like to make the same commitment.

    72. A.N.Surgent says:

      Robert Louis

      Im not on facebook either but you can access the links anyway

    73. Robert Louis says:


      I’m not criticising you, just the people who obsess over facebook, and refuse to consider people who don’t use it. If we want to spead our message, then using excelusively facebook to advertise meetings is possibly the dumbest thing that could be done.

      I don’t use it because of the way it harvests personal data for marketeers and the US intelligence agencies – it isn’t really ‘free’ you know.

      So, I rarely click on links that are on facebook either.

    74. yerkitbreeks says:

      Politically – I feel we need a robust inde orientated addition to the SNP at Holyrood ( can the Greens ever supply this ? )

      Radio – for the thinkers we need a news outlet to rival Radio 4 and what little comes out of Radio Scotland. The rest can have the likes of Radio Borders.

      Newsprint – we need something to satisfy Chomsky’s 80% ie with the footie, titillations, and crappy horror stories, but the rest of the production needs to be for Scotland.

      …and then there’s the internet.

    75. A.N.Surgent says:

      Should have known that GCHQ and NSA were involved, especially with my name tag. 🙂

    76. A.N.Surgent says:

      Robert Louis

      Should have known that GCHQ and NSA involved, especially with my name tag. 🙂

    77. manandboy says:


      The future prize which is Independence is SO GREAT

      there is none bigger.

      Everyone surely knows that – at least 1.6 million + do.

      But the TIMELINE IS KEY.

      May 2015 General Election
      May 2016 Holyrood Elections
      ? 2017 EU Referendum

      There is universal recognition that in this period
      which is 3 years maximum
      almost anything can happen
      north and south of the border.
      And if anything can happen, then Independence can too.

      So the Yes campaign with all the new IndyParty members on board
      HAS REAL HOPE of the BIG PRIZE in the next three years.

      This is no time for giving up and people know that.

      Wings has become an institution over one event.

      With three more ballots to come in quick succession

      Stu is going to be busier than ever, for longer than ever.

    78. Colin says:

      We know that cameron and his chums in the labour party will renege on their promises for after a no vote, they are already doing it, that gives us a legitimate case for another referendum, with or without westminsters blessing.
      The only way to achieve another referendum is to get behind the SNP in 2015 and again in 2016 but with a mandate to hold another referendum, which we will win because everyone will remember what lying scumbags are running still westminster.

    79. ross says:

      I have not previously posted on ‘wings’, but have followed the YES campaign avidly from exile in the home counties and have seen a real mixed bag of reactions and recriminations in the aftermath of the NO vote…None more so than this sites assertion that the vote was fair and not subject to any acts of tampering or endemic rigging.

      Ignoring the infamous but inconclusive clips doing the rounds on Youtube, there were many anomalous regional results on the night and large variances in the what was generally a high turnout, Glasgow and Dundee being an example of that variance, close to 10% lower than the average.

      Given that Westminster made no contingency for Trident, along with oil perhaps the biggest strategic issue facing London in the face of a YES vote, it seemed somewhat strange to defence commentators and the likes of Andrew Neil that no contingency was defined…Therefore my question to you is; What made you so sure and you asserted your view pretty early on the 19th of Sept that the vote was fair and just, leaving out the obvious media imbalance etc in the run up, why are you at odds with Rally for a revote? What evidence did you employ to make such a bold assertion so at odds with many of the YESSERS?

      I am genuinely interested, as there seems to be a very strong movement driving a message contrary to this site, a site which has been seen as the real champion of the disenfranchised YES campaign.

    80. msean says:

      Keep it going,well needed.

    81. Andy-B says:

      I was disgusted to read that during the Tory conference Ruth Davidson referred to YES voters who still seek independence as “Referendum Deniers” was/is she trying to imply something more sinister with that slur.

    82. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Louis says: 1 October, 2014 at 1:17 pm:

      ” … and introduce a new British Bill of rights – of course completely missing the fact that the original ‘bill of rights’ of 1689, was an English only bill.

      There has never been a Scottish bill of rights. Perhaps in their pig ignorance of Scotland, Westminster are thinking of the Scottish claim of right of 1689 – a document which has been repeatedly updated, and is a very different beastie to the English bill of rights.

      Ah! Yes, Robert Louis, The wee, “s”, on the end that makes the difference between, “Claim of Right”, (that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign), and a, “Bill of Rights”, which, for a sovereign people should be legally totally unnercessary. This though has always been the case. The Establishment re-write of history. The claim that 1603 was a Union of the crowns when it was just both crowns ening upon the same head but both Kingdoms still independent. The English claim that by them deposing James II as the king of England it also deposed him as King of Scotland and the subsequent uprising, they still call a rebellion, of the Jacobites from 1688 to 1745. How could Scots rebel against a king who was not their own?

      We also did indeed have the first Claim of Right ignored and there are several more modern instances too. The 1688 Glorious Revolution made only the three country Kingdom of England a Constitutional Monarchy. The statement by David Mundell, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England The United Kingdom. The assumption that the Treaty of Union was not between two equally sovereign Kingdoms. That uniting two kingdoms made the resultant UK a country. That the sharing of assets and debits is based upon the current population ratios. That the English Magna Carta applies to Scotland, That upon the UK disuniting the Kingdom of England will continue as the rUK. That England retains the membership of NATO, UN and EU. That Scottish Teritorial WatersBelong to the United Kingdom et al.

    83. ewen says:

      I agree with the FB comments. I am not and will never be a FB user so a lot of links mean nothing to me.

    84. flux_capacitor says:

      @Les Wilson 12:59pm

      Some poll tax arrears may be limited by the 20 year prescription. It is explained in more detail here:

    85. chalks says:

      £38 billion of cuts coming, yet people are happy with getting an extra £2k in their pocket!? Not realising that the money WILL be getting spent on the services that are being privatised and which will be higher than currently.

      This country is a fucking joke, don’t go on the bbc website you’ll kill yourself.

    86. Nana Smith says:


      Just received this petition if anyone wants to sign it…

    87. crazycat says:

      @ cumoangerraff at 12.50

      I’ve just ordered a sew-on badge with “Don’t blame me, I voted YES” embroidered on it (there was a link on an earlier thread – it only seems to be possible to buy one at a time, which is mildly annoying), and I was wondering what to do with it, since I probably won’t sew it onto my clothes.

      It’s a little larger than a tax disc, I think, but it might be possible to display it as such – so thank you for the idea!

    88. What constitutes a “CONFERENCE”.

      My OED defines a Conference as :-
      “A Meeting for Consultation”. end quote.

      BLAB and Tory Conferences – consulted NO-ONE.

      This afternoon we see BamCam`s Arithmetic blown out the water by Andra Neill when it was revealed that the tory giveaway to Low Pay and Middle Class =
      £3.2 billion + £8 billion = £11.2 billion in 2018 (Maybe).
      Providing over £100 billion deficit is Cleared.?

      Meanwhile, UK National Debt will Rise to £1.6 Trillion.
      From the £1.46 Trillion left by BLAB in 2010.

    89. Nana Smith says:






      Get Involved

      .Share RSS

      Cameron delivers blow to Scotland’s pensioners

      Wed, 01/10/2014 – 14:30

      The SNP has today accused David Cameron of delivering ‘a blow to pensioners’ following the Prime Minister’s Tory party conference speech.

      Mr Cameron said that a single tier pension would be £142-per-week – which is significantly lower than the UK government previously indicated it would be (in 2012-13 prices) and is less than the £160-per-week that the SNP pledged in Scotland’s Future.

      Commenting, Jamie Hepburn MSP, a member of the Welfare Reform Committee, said:

      “This is a major blow to pensioners in Scotland and represents a betrayal by David Cameron and the Westminster government.

      “It is typical of this Tory government in Westminster – if they stick with Mr Cameron’s £142 then this falls significantly short of what they had previously suggested and is far below the Scottish Government proposal of what our older people need to live comfortably on.

      “Scotland is a rich country which can afford pension payments and the Scottish Parliament needs the powers to deliver for pensions and pensioners where Westminster continually fails.”



      The UK Government White Paper used an illustrative full single-tier rate of £144 per week in 2012-13 prices

      Scottish Government pledged £160 per week

    90. chalks says:

      I’m not signing the fracking petition, I couldn’t give a fk about it, majority voted no, so they can suffer for their ignorance.

      In short, fuck them.

      (apologies to anyone it affects)

    91. manandboy says:



      Already the unionist parties fill the headlines

      and the news broadcasts, from what I hear.

      Already, all those who live with their TV on all day,

      many of them elderly,

      with News Bulletins every hour,

      are being brainwashed by the Unionists

      in preparation for the GE in 2015

      in which, in Scotland, the plan now,

      having saved the Union,


      Enter John McTernan and his team of PR sewer rats.

    92. Robert Louis says:

      Robert Peffers,

      Ahhh, I thought the bit about the claim of right would interest you. Thanks for the extra information.

      I do get quite angry when the BBC talk glibly about a new British bill of rights or (even worse) a new British Magna Carta (both exclusively English documents).

      Of course Mundell, is talking pish when he says the treaty of union extinguished Scotland. If that were true, then QED, so too was England extinguished. Try telling that to the Tory party faithful in Birmingham. What a moron.

      Honestly, I really could get violent. And I’m not a violent person. 😉

    93. yesindyref2 says:

      Quote from someone who signed the NNS petition about the vows for federal / Devo-max to be delivered:

      My four grandparents and my neighbour voted no because they believed we would have Devo Max in a matter of months. They have pledged to vote yes in another referendum if Devo Max not delivered.

      The Smith Commission and keeping the pressure for delivery of very substantial powers (not the crap promised by Labour or the others earlier this year), is vital, which is why the SNP will be co-operating fully.

      It is indeed win-win. If not delivered, then the 45% YES are re-united with at least 14% No who wanted Devo-Max, and according to Curtice, a large part of the 26% (Ashcroft 47% of 55%) who were afraid we weren’t ready or able for Indy. It appears now that the status quo element is down to 20%, or even less. Scotland wants change.

      If delivered in full which is Devo-Max, then Scotland will have all the ministries, all the powers and revenue collecting, but also many of the Regulatory powers, another cudgel used by e.g. the financial sector, in place. We would of course also have the oil revenues, and the regulatory agency to go with them (Aberdeen or Aberdeen / Glasgow). Oh, and fracking regulatory powers too.

      Some at least of us pro-indy posters talked about a transitional phase after Indy, lasting up to 10 years. Including Trident to be gone by 2026. Well, implementing Devo-Max doesn’t affect that timetable, it starts it. It means that after say a referendum in 2021, it would need only a 3 year transitional phase, and Trident could still begone by 2026.

      I analysed (full) Devo-Max over 2 years ago, and it’s unstable, not so much for Scotland, as the rUK. It’s the next stage to full Indy, and a far quicker one than from Devo 1999 to Indyref 2014, IMHO.

      This broadcast came to you courtesy of the “take what the f*** you can as a step on the way”, same as I was for the 1979 Devo ref.

    94. manandboy says:

      David Cameron, with a new PR Campaign for GE15 in his pocket,

      laying it on thick in the final speech

      of the Tory party Conference today.

      Tax threshold up to £12,500

      and 40% rate up to £50,000 from £40,000.

      So higher earners get FOUR TIMES THE TAX BREAK

      of the low paid.

      Then he says:”Let the message go out that with the Conservatives if you work hard, do the right thing, we say you should keep more of your own money to spend as you choose. That is what our long term economic plan means for you.”
      i.e. long term, there will be no welfare; no social services; we’ll be just like the Americans.

      In other words, in the future,under the Tories,


      Lose your job? find another one.

      Fall ill? pay to get better, or die.

      This is what No in Indyref means.

      It could have been SO different.


    95. heedtracker says:

      Uk debt’s now £1.4 trillion, deficit highest ever, even higher than Crash and the Fliipper managed to widdle away. So let’s all have more teamGB tax cuts…

    96. Robert Louis says:


      You mean this newsnet petition;

      What is good about it, is that it is from a reputable pro indy source (, and it really gets to the key point, that it is Devo max (everything except Foreign affairs and defence) that we were promised. It also makes it clear the legislation needs enacted prior to the 2015 election.

      I agree with you point, that should devo max not now be delivered there will be even more angry Scots. The NNS petition makes it clear that such an outcome will make the referendum result null and void.

      I would urge everyone to sign it, if possible. It is a very meaningful petition.

    97. Dcanmore says:

      @manandboy …

      Not just America the Tories ape but Republican America, specifically Texas. What they eventually worked out in the Lone Star State is you pay no income tax and ergo no tax dollars for public services, if you want it pay for it yourself.

    98. Nana Smith says:

      Has someone put that newsnet petition on facebook and twitter. It seems to be very slow moving so needs a bigger audience.

      I don’t do twitter or facebook so unable to help.

    99. galamcennalath says:

      9412 telling Broon what to do with himself!

      Everyone should sign, if they are angry about his antics!

    100. manandboy says:

      David Cameron, today;

      This is a straight fight.
      It doesn’t matter whether Parliament
      is hung, drawn or quartered,
      there is only one real choice –
      the Conservatives or Labour.
      Me in Downing Street or Ed Miliband in Downing Street.

      “If you vote Ukip, that is really a vote for Labour.

      “Here’s a thought for you: on May 7
      you could go to bed with Nigel Farage
      and wake up with Ed Miliband.”

      As the audience laughed, Mr Cameron joked: “I don’t know about you, but not one bit of that works for me.”

      The Prime Minister added:
      “So this is the big question for that election.
      On the things that matter in your life,
      who do you really trust?

      And for the people of Scotland WHO DO YOU REALLY TRUST


      LET’S GET AT THEM !!

    101. Onwards says:

      Posting info on facebook, helps people on facebook, and nobody else. If that is what those people wish to achieve, then that’s ok.

      We could have both.

      I don’t particularly like the fact that facebook is so powerful, but that is just the way it is now.
      There is a wide reach among all age groups, and so many people have the mobile app too.

      For some people, facebook is pretty much the only site they use now. Twitter is not as big, and more geeky in comparison.

      A pro-Scottish daily newspaper would be great, but that’s not going to happen unless Brian Soutar or the Weirs for example, splash out and pay millions to start one up.

      The main point is Facebook is the nearest online equivalent to ‘normal’ people getting political news from a tabloid.
      It is PUSHED towards people, in amongst friends posts, entertainment, photos, gossip etc.. had high readership for September, but inevitably interest will drop now.
      People have to go out their way to visit a web page, even if it is bookmarked.

      But if these readers were all subscribed to a facebook page, they would still be receiving content from Wings, delivered directly to them every day.
      Even if they just glance at the post, and don’t visit the main page, it is still taken note of.

      There is also a couple of other advantages, in that articles are easily ‘shared’, and it is less vulnerable to hackers and DOS attacks.

      The ‘Scottish Banter’ facebook page has 750,000 subscribers.
      YES Scotland has 360,000 but posting seems to have stopped – a big mistake.
      That is more than the Scottish Sun or Daily Record.

    102. Capella says:

      Fantastic figures for WoS. With these circulation rates this site is the place to go for Indyref information. I said on a previous thread that I would love a media tab where video, podcasts and radio streams can be accessed. If there is a radio news service then that would be great too. With all the above information from Tory Conf and MSM, it is obvious that a newspaper collating all this for people not online (or even online who like hard copy to read) is essential. My preference would be for a Saturday news digest with op ed, arts and (OK sports) coverage too. Plus cartoons, book and theatre reviews, outdoor and environment news, photos, what’s on etc etc. 1.6m potential buyers.

    103. Muscleguy says:

      @Robert Louis

      Are you unable to use a web search engine for some reason? That is how I found the 45%’s facebook page for eg. If you are truly interested you would surely have gone looking. This is after all the information age even if we don’t have enough silver surfers yet.

    104. yesindyref2 says:

      Robert Louis / Robert Peffers
      What Crawford & Boyle totally didn’t bother explaining is how the Treaty of Union itself could be extinguished in modern times, when it’s specifically referenced in the Scotland Act 1998 Section 37 only (then) 14 years before:

      “The Union with Scotland Act 1706 and the Union with England Act 1707 have effect subject to this Act.”

    105. EdinScot says:

      @ Robert Louis

      Totally agree with you re facebook. I was only able to attend last saturdays ‘voice of the people’ rally in Edinburgh due to a friend who does facebook (i dont). Dont get me wrong, it was a great day but, if we want to add thousands to the attendance say from 3000-4000 we could easily be looking at anywhere upwards from 10,000 thousand and much higher. Surely the whole purpose is to give these demos/rallys maximum exposure thus getting as many of us to attend as possible, so it kind of defeats the purpose and all the hard work in organising these events if lots of people are oblivious to what is happening. They should be spread across all the internet especially so on our indy sites such such as here at wings.

      Brilliant stats for wings. It demonstrates perfectly why this site and Stu is playing a crucial part in our fight with the British State to win our independence. This site has never stopped opening peoples eyes to the duplicity, misinformation, collusion and sheer lies of the British unionist establishment and presenting us all with the truth proven with verified links to the relevant statsitics.

    106. Capella says:

      Also agree on “hold their feet to the fire” on Devo Max/Home Rule/Federalism promises. We have a timetable of iconic events to gather round, Halloween, St Andrews Day, Burns Night! Lets make these nights to remember.
      If no delivery, then GE 2016 sees the unionists parties evicted.
      Re Councils persecuting people who registered to vote. Maybe Kenny McAskill could introduce a bill to stop that anti-democratic practice. This is the kind of issue that Tommy Sheridan could fight.

    107. galamcennalath says:


      Totally agree. We need to get stuck into the Unionists in WM 2015. As many Lab seats as possible, mop up some Liberal ones and make the Tories extinct.

      Labour in particular are playing silly buggers to try to keep Scottish Lab MPs available to help them govern England. Well let’s remove that idea from Milliband!

    108. Capella says:

      RE Facebook I set up a folder in my bookmarks for Facebook pages that get listed here. that way, ou can go back t them and get the most recent version. For instance, I just clicked on the woen for Independence Facebook and got todays post. They’ve been invited to submit evidence to the Smith Commission.

    109. Capella says:

      Sorry about typos. Should be GE 2015 above at 3.40 and numerous at 3.44. Keypad getting worn!

    110. heraldnomore says:

      Interesting summary article on The Vow by James Cook:

      “But this is not over yet. Not by a long way”. His closing words. We’re watching, all of us.

    111. Colin Church says:

      Can we tell what it is yet? Doesn’t sound like DEVO MAX to me.

    112. north chiel says:

      Agree with both “Morag” and “Robert Peffers”, EBC Scotland and the London owned newspapers delivered the “NO” vote for the Westminster establishment. These “twin midwives” need to be tackled head on now, as they will marginalise the “SNP/YES” possible alliance in the run up to the 2015 GE and Holyrood election beyond.
      Perhaps, as a counter to daily newspapers a “free” (advertising revenue ?business for Scotland ??? ) newspaper along the lines of METRO ( another unionist mouthpiece during the campaign) could be a possibility ?

    113. manandboy says:

      Waiting now for the knock on the door.

      ” Hello. I’m from Capita. It’s about your TV Licence.”

      My reply will be:-

      “Hi. Hang on a minute till I get my tablet – it’s got a video camera in it. You don’t mind do you ? “

    114. yesindyref2 says:

      Robert Louis
      Yes, that’s the one, NNS one! It’s got teeth and sphericals.

      The 38degrees is just saying “please give us a little, pretty please”. For some reason though, Sturgeon seems to support it. Shrug. I presume she knows what she’s doing. Personally I won’t sign it though, I wouldn’t want to put my name to something like that which could easily backfire: (Cameron) “We received a petition from all the people of Scotland, and are pleased to grant it. Out of the kindness of our hearts we’ll put another 2p on your already existing 1998 / 2012 tax-raising powers. My kindness breaks my heart and I’m going to sob now uncontrollably.”.

    115. Schrödinger's cat says:

      Windows 8 laptop unable to post
      iPad, Linux,Mac better
      Re, where is the sponsorship for this page?, lidl aldi anyone

    116. muttley79 says:

      Where and when did Nicola Sturgeon urge people to sign a petition?

    117. Helena Brown says:

      Wow and I do mean wow, we are still on the boil and I think it will only go from strength to strength as people realise how they were cheated. As others have said Stuart if you need more money let us know, where on earth do we, the disenfranchised go for information. I tried doing without and landed back here.

    118. Betty Boop says:

      @ Robert Louis, 1:17pm

      Re Events – Try Facebook
      Scottish Independence Live Events and another page is: Independence 2.0: We’re still here

    119. bookie from hell says:

      letter to speaker House of Commons full debate VOW,oct 16th

    120. liz says:

      @north chiel -the metro is still at it. My hubby brought one home today and it has 3 post indy letters – all No – move on etc.

      A ‘free’ newspaper is a good idea, the metro gets by on advertising revenue – Lidl, Aldi, BfS, and the Clyde Blowers group – Jim McColl is supposed to be extremely wealthy and is an indy supporter – could all provide revenue.

      I suppose BfS might have the knowledge to get something up and running and there are plenty of media studies students out there.

    121. Graeme Doig says:

      I’m fair perplexed by all this devo max/plus, federalism stuff as I’m sure others are. To be honest I’m not sure what we’re supposed to be holding them to.

      Would be great if we, as a movement could define exactly what powers we expect from ‘the vow’ to measure how far short these bastards sell us.

      Is it just me. Have I missed something ?

    122. Schrödinger's cat says:

      Saw a program on bbc, ugh, about the physiology of vote in the referendum, they interviewed a top political guru in the us and asked him to review the tv broadcasts from both sides, he was scathing of the no stuff, where as he gushed at yes, kirsty video and said that the black leaflet with the hand with a blue spark between the thumb and fore finger was one of the best leaflets he had ever seen. This was before the patronizing bt lady video. Which was a gift to us, as we’re most of the vote no borders pish.who would you prefer running yer campaign, Blair Jenkins or macdougall. Jenkins was in a different league. Btw, he distance the yes camp from wings, did that stop anyone distributing and funding the wbb? No, it didn’t. Had Jenkins supported wings then every negative comment on this thread would have been thrown in his and AS face. The only logo missing from every leaflet was the snp,s, that is because it was the no strategy to paint this movement as the snp. Nicola and the snp. Are the acceptable nice face of this campaign, they make leaflets extolling the virtues of their candidates in this coming election. It is our job to make leaflets highlighting the failings of our opponents. Nicola is appealing to the 55% at the mo, she is ruling out independence as an option , in the coming GE, but not after. We now have 2 bites at the FFA cherry in the next 6months, the commission and the GE. Who needs someone with a loud voice to run a campaign when people like Sheridan were coming out of the wood work all over the place. The no camp stopped putting folk up to speak in town halls, they didn’t have anyone worthy, we on the other hand are not short of talent. So bear in mind that Jenkins is was working to a strategy, the correct one in my view, and so now are the snp. Don’t expect any public aknowledgement of wings anytime soon, indeed I hope not, it would clip all of your wings

    123. desimond says:


      Forum…there is the Off Topic thread on Wings were folk often throw up interesting topics for discussion

      Doesnt quite get publicity it deserves granted

    124. Morag says:

      If Jenkins was merely not mentioning Wings, for strategic reasons, I think we’d have understood that. It wasn’t quite like that though.

    125. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      We’re fine for money for now, thanks, folks.

    126. G H Graham says:

      Further good news. This time for MPs.

      Next year, they will be receiving an 11.6% pay raise taking their miserable, basic salary of just £66,300 to £74,000 per year.

      This is an attempt to further distance themselves from the rest of us as the new figure puts them within touching distance of 3 x the average UK wage.

      Looks like there’s plenty of gravy left before the next wave of savage public cost cutting washes over the great unwashed.

    127. west_lothian_questioner says:

      Stu… for next months stats could you maybe make it a horizontal graph instead of vertical please? Scrolling to get to the base line loses the impact of the last couple of months staggering performance.

      Onward & upward!!…

    128. Robert Louis says:

      Graham Doig,

      Devo max – all powers except foreign affairs and defence. Not complicated.

      Westminster parties try to complicate it with all kinds of machinations, to mask the fact they have bugger all intention of giving devo max powers to Scotland.

      We hold them to their promise, when they fail, all bets are off.

    129. Schrödinger's cat says:

      How do you know Morag?, how do you know there are not snp mp’s on this thread, how do you no what is discussed with stu behind closed doors with the snp and the yes camp, stu hasn’t indulged in character assassination of anyone in the yes camp?
      In case you hadn’t noticed, the officials have been whiter than white during this campaign and have still been slated as nazis etc, they can’t afford the freedom to speak freely, AS said as much in his resignation speach.
      We lost because we didn’t control the traditional media, not because of Jenkins, what the fuck do you think all of the crowd funding this last week was for?
      I just as devastated at losing as you AS and Blair, difference is we have the freedom to express that loss, AS and Blair do not. The only people who should carry the can is the bbc and the MSM,
      I’m in holland at the mo, just so as you know, Blair Jenkins has been responsible not just for the loss of yes, but also of being at the head of the greatest grass roots political organization in the whole of Europe in the past 5 decades.

    130. Graham says:

      Re events, put them here.

      I’m in it for the long haul.

    131. Robert Louis says:

      Betty boop,

      I know you are trying to help, but my point is and has been, lots of people don’t do facebook. Ever.

      So, if you are on facebook, you get informed of events and changes as they happen, if you are not you don’t.

      Considering we have all bemoaned the inability to get our message out to some Scots, I would have thought the very least we could do, is realise not everybody uses facebook.

      If it’s on facebook I (and many, many others) don’t see it.

    132. yesindyref2 says:

      It was the Record claimed Sturgeon supported the petition, in a quote it attributed to her.

      So far I’ve found no supporting evidence anywhere else, including on the snp media centre. Shrug. Would the Record lie, I mean, accidetnally misattribute a quote?

    133. cirsium says:

      I’m not signing the fracking petition, I couldn’t give a fk about it, majority voted no, so they can suffer for their ignorance.

      @chalks – understandable reaction. However, if the fracking chemicals or waste fracking water leaches into aquifers, we all have a problem, given that Scotland’s central belt is densely populated. Here are some articles (I hope the URLs hyperlink)

      Clean water is one of our most precious resources. We need to defend it.

    134. Joe Swan says:

      @Scots Renewables 11.34am

      On the subject of new media, I’ve ham-fistedly stubbled on this.

      It seems to be a collection of news items, articles and media from various sources, put together in one place and claims to be updated twice daily.

      Don’t know how long it’s been going but it looks like the start of a good idea.

    135. SquareHaggis says:

      MSM eerily quiet on subjects releted to Scotland especially when you consider the full on barrage of the past few months.

      Anyone know if there have been any legal challenges yet?

      What was is again, 6 week window of opportunity?

      My feeling is they’ll await the 6 weeks passing before dishing out the real goodies, once they’re safely in the clear that is.

    136. muttley79 says:

      I just cannot think of a reason why Nicola Sturgeon would ask people to sign a petition for more powers given she was campaigning so hard for independence just a few weeks ago. NS never made the promises, so I cannot understand why she would want people to sign a petition. I think the DR are at it again.

    137. cirsium says:

      my comments are disappearing into the ether. This is a second attempt.

      I’m not signing the fracking petition, I couldn’t give a fk about it, majority voted no, so they can suffer for their ignorance.

      @chalks – understandable reaction. However, if fracking chemicals or fracking waste water leach into aquifers, we all have a problem, given the densely populated nature of the central belt. Water is one of our most precious resources. We need to defend it. Here are some articles

    138. G H Graham says:

      The reason we lost the referendum is due to the British Establishment using everything in its favour & disposal to undermine the campaign for independence.

      Thus, with exception of the Sunday herald, every single newspaper, TV channel & radio station was openly against Scottish independence.

      Furthermore, Whitehall & the Foreign Office agitated businesses here and governments abroad to advise against independence.

      And the Cabinet in Westminster, with the full backing of Labour, LibDems & UKIP, encouraged many large corporations & businesses to threaten Scots if they considered voting for independence.

      Yet, despite all of this, 45% of those that voted, still ticked the YES box.

      It seems reasonable therefore that a majority would have chosen independence if there was at least some balance of propaganda during the campaign.

      Regrettably, the growing impact of social media was insufficient in Scotland to overcome this industrial scale coersion & bribery.

    139. Robert Louis says:


      How do you publicise an event? Put it on an exclusive commercial platform, which many people do not use, ever, then when said people complain tell them they should have googled for said event. Really?? That’ll get lots of new people interested. What a daft attitude.

      The whole way through the campaign, people moaned that many Scots still hadn’t been given the facts, and they were ‘hard to reach’, so why now do we wish to restrict events to those who use facebook, or those who with the skills of a soothsayer, who somehow magically tell an event is coming up, and then google it, magically finding the untitled event in an unknown location, at an unknown time, with their very first click.

      To publicise an event you make it easy for people to know about it. Marketing 1.01 FFS!

    140. Robert Peffers says:

      @crazycat says: 1 October, 2014 at 2:49 pm:

      “It’s a little larger than a tax disc, I think, but it might be possible to display it as such – so thank you for the idea!

      You might try to sew it on a cap or hat. I’ve got a large pin on badge on the wooley hat, flanked by a small YES badge to one side and a small YES KELTY on the other side. Only managed to collect several new friends with it so far and not started any fights or made any new enemy contacts with it yet.

    141. yesindyref2 says:

      Your earlier post also appeared. I have the same problem, refereshes only work about every 25 minutes. Tried different browsers, and even a different internet connection on my laptop, same problem. Perhaps some kind of cache refresh limiting.

      Facebook / Twitter
      I don’t and won’t use them, and you hear of people banning their parents from access as well. Older generation is probably less likely to be on them, than the plain vanilla Internet / www and ebay / amazon.

    142. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      Water in Scotland does not come up, it comes down.

      Our water will be privatised and used for fracking in England, where they have a water shortage.

    143. Graeme Doig says:

      Thanks RL. I know I ask some basic questions here but I hope I’m not the only one who needs a bit of clarity sometimes.

    144. Helena Brown says:

      Square Haggis, they have put Scotland back into the Shortbread tin, therefore nothing more to say.
      We all know it is not finished, but hopefully they will ignore us whilst we start the fight again. Better they get caught out.

    145. Helena Brown says:

      I see Gordon has a motion up for the 16th of October re: UK Government’s relationship with Scotland. Well that will be interesting, do you think he knows the road to Westminster after all this time?

    146. @Bugger (the Panda)

      Concerns over new tap water in Badenoch and Strathspey

      The water is now being taken from a massive underground reservoir using boreholes rather than Loch Einich in the Cairngorms.

      If it only snowed in the region!

    147. @Bugger (the Panda)

      Concerns over new tap water in Badenoch and Strathspey

      The water is now being taken from a massive underground reservoir using boreholes rather than Loch Einich in the Cairngorms.

      If it only snowed in the region!

    148. Iain Brown, says:

      If you need some cash just ask and I’ll send what I can afford. We need to keep pushing, and come back from the tragedy of “no”. Keep up the good work.

    149. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      CH that is amazing.

      I never knew that any water in Scotland came from underground resevoirs.

      What is wrong with all the rainwater and snow melt?

      Just does not make sense unless the cost of the infrastructure to capture and store the rain and snow was greater than the boreholes.

      You would think they would have tested the borehole quality, and monitored it extensively.

    150. Capella says:

      @Joe Swan
      That Scotland Yes site look interesting and does handily collate a variety of info sources. It would be good if there was some information on who has set it up and manages it! “about” and “contact” tabs for example.

    151. john king says:

      Heres something to think about folks,
      since ASDA decided to cut their own throats in Scotland and put themselves beyond the Pale,

      The wife and I have been shopping in ALDI’s for the full weeks grocery shop, and she just sat and did a price comparison on the trolly load of goods we bought and found,

      Aldi pomegranates 4 pack £1.09
      Asda pomegranates 3 pack £1.50

      Aldi 400g minced lamb £1.99
      Asda 500g minced lamb £4.00

      Aldi long grain rice 1kg .40p
      Asda chosen by you long grain rice 1k £1.38

      Aldi dry cure back back bacon 200g £1.49
      Asda dry cure back bacon 240g £3.00

      Aldi pork sausages 454g £1.29
      Asda pork sausages 454g £1.55

      Aldi free range eggs (large) £1.39
      Asda free range eggs (large) £1.80

      Aldi fresh cream 300ml £0.79
      Asda fresh cream 300ml £0.85

      Aldi French garlic sausage 100g 0.39
      Asda french garlic sausage 100g £1.00

      everything listed other that pomegranates garlic, sausage and rice is labelled SCOTTISH
      and the suppliers appear to be small producers so not only are we supporting small local producers but were saving a small fortune doing it,

      And the big bonus is we get to stick it to ASDA while were doing it. what’s not to like? 🙂

      ps the total shop my wife bought cost £31.00

      Asda comparison £43.28

    152. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      anyhoos, I don’t think that they will be fracking anytime in the next millenia in the Cairngorms.

      But under kelvinside, Morningside and East Renfrewshire are a certainty.

      Retaliate first.

    153. NewportDee says:

      The way forward is for all pro independence “media” groups like Wings; Newsnet; Bateman: Dateline etc to come together to produce one outlet to provide news – with coverage via paper, radio and online. In addition coverage of sport, entertainment etc should be included. An approach to wealthy supporters of independence (Weirs, Soutar etc) could be approached to help the initial funding along with crowdfunding.

    154. SquareHaggis says:


      95,000 odd people crammed into a shortbread tin and counting.

      Sure, some asoects can be discounted but others need review IMO.

    155. AuldA says:


      Rain water is basically almost pure. It lack minerals, that are dissolved as the drops seep through the ground.

      Melted now is the same. You can drink it once, but not on a daily basis.

    156. @Bugger (the Panda)

      There was a report done by Friends of the Earth and some areas of Scotland are not as well of for drinking water as the media portrays. Population growth and sustainability are not comfy bedfellows.

    157. @Bugger (the Panda)

      There was a report done by Friends of the Earth and some areas of Scotland are not as well of for drinking water as the media portrays. Population growth and sustainability are not comfy bedfellows.

    158. Joe Swan says:


      I agree about the details. I just liked the ‘all under one umbrella’ concept.

    159. SquareHaggis says:

      Wouldn’t do any harm would it?

    160. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      Yes I know but water percolating through granite tends to be demineralised and acidic, like most of the drinking water in Scotland.

    161. Capella says:

      @ Joe Swan
      Yes it’s good. I’m so glad I watched this video they have on the site. Robin McAlpine at his inspirational best with Brian Cox in the last few minutes on the future. “Out by Xmas 2020”. 17mins

    162. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      Soft water is a problem for brewing and bas to be remineralised, called burtonisation.

    163. AuldA says:

      French perception of the issue of the referendum: was bantering with a friend of mine in a conference in Versailles. Discussion lands on the Scottish vote. Guy: “Those f** bastards. I thought they were more clever than the English, but no! Blast them!”

      Conclusion: you failed us, guys!

    164. G H Graham says:

      The reason the water in the kettle turns black is due to the presence of both chlorine and heavy metals such as iron, copper, zinc, cobalt & manganese.

      Chlorine is a powerful oxidizer & readily causes these metals to rust. Thus if both are in the water & in sufficent quantity, the colour of the water will change to a brown or black, accelarated by the heat & agitation as the kettle boils.

      The heavy metals either occur naturally or more likely are exposed in the kettle. Most likely the source is the copper shrouded heating element.

    165. AuldA says:


      Didn’t know that. Thanks.
      Was Burton a man changed in a salt statue?

    166. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      from Burton on Trent which was judged to be the best for ales, thus Burton became synonymous with ales in England.

    167. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      A propos votre ami AultA, lui dire que les Ecossais ne quittent jamais le champ de bataille.

    168. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      That was Lot, who changed into salt.

      He was from the Lot et Garonne.

    169. AuldA says:

      God turned Lot’s wife into salt.
      That’s what we call a salt ire.

    170. Forbes says:

      Video: police probe bizarre poll conspiracy

      Daniel Sanderson
      Police have confirmed they are investigating a bizarre independence referendum conspiracy theory in which an internet blogger claims to have come into possession of a bag of discarded Yes votes.
      Police have confirmed they are investigating a bizarre independence referendum conspiracy theory in which an internet blogger claims to have come into possession of a bag of discarded Yes votes.
      The man in questions claims he was asked to uplift a sack full of yes votes which were left in duke street and he still has them in his possession allegedly. Police continue to investigate the matter.

    171. yesindyref2 says:

      A lot of rural areas are on boreholes or wells even. Water quality is tested, at least for such as hotels. I know of one big one had to shut because the quality was deemed too poor, and they were unable to connect to the public supply about 500 metres away because the puirification plant (not water supply) didn’t have enough capacity. Others have been waiting well, decades, to be connected for similar reasons in some places.

    172. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ yesindyref2

      Thanks for that.

    173. BOB MACK says:

      I absolutely love this site as it tells me that Scots passion is alive and well, and I am reassured that my fellow citizens ,like me, will not easily give up the struggle to one day be responsible for our own destiny. Every disappointment thrown our way from Westminster will become a dagger for its own heart if I know my fellow Scots, so we must try to look on these negatives as positives for our movement. Tough to do, but we are a tough people and can endure for as long as it takes.

    174. Graeme Doig says:

      John King

      My wife did first weekly shop in aldi this week. Don’t know if we saved any money but to be honest I would pay more ss long as it’s not going to asda.
      Might bump into you in one of our shopping trips in the kingdom.

    175. Rory says:

      Has anyone thought that a large chunk of those unique readers this time will be unionists et al, having a cheeky gander ?

    176. Gary says:

      Its taken only a few days for Gordon Brown, the man who was personally ‘guaranteeing’ more powers to admit the proposal to be a trap. The agreement has fallen apart and we also see that voters who registered are now being chased for very old ‘community charge’ debts. Chasing debt is what councils SHOULD be doing so why publicise it? To discourage these folk from voting, that’s why! As a former debt collector I know the one thing you DON’T do is give away your techniques. So, less than a fortnight after the vote, the lies fall apart, the punishment begins, the cuts are made public and the war starts. These are all the things we warned of, exactly as we said – there’s no satisfaction in being right…

    177. yesindyref2 says:

      That hotel is the Machrie on Islay. I looked it up and 2012 it said water connection was going ahead, but they must have then found the purification plant in Bowmore wasn’t up to it. Seems to me the obvious solution is to build another one in Port Eleen – but it’s cost I expect.

      Mmm, I’d better shut up. More money going into Holyrood, more money to invest around Scotland. Help! I’m getting mad about that NO again …

    178. SquareHaggis says:

      ALDI punts the Daily Record.

      Just sayin…

    179. AuldA says:


      Yet another golf…

      As Oscar Wilde would have put it: “Yet another wonderful landscape wasted because of a small ball.”

    180. Alex Clark says:

      @john king

      Hmmmm I’ll be over your place soon. Tell Irene to get the mince on!

    181. Tackety Beets says:

      @Les Wilson 12:59pm

      Tommy S was on GMS with an Ex Tory Coosiller today 7.45/8.15 cant remember exactly . Think about 7.45 had a good shout so be worth a listen .

    182. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 1 October, 2014 at 3:38 pm:

      “What Crawford & Boyle totally didn’t bother explaining is how the Treaty of Union itself could be extinguished in modern times, when it’s specifically referenced in the Scotland Act 1998 Section 37 only (then) 14 years before.”

      Well that, of course, is the actual point being made, yesindyref2. The Westminster Establishments assumptions that trample all over facts they don’t like but which are totally illegal and ignore the real facts. At no time had the sovereign people of Scotland ever been consulted and thus cannot have given up their legal sovereignty under Scotland’s independent legal system. As pointed out already the 1688, “Glorious Revolution”, happened while the three country Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland were still independent. It could thus make only that independent Kingdom of England’s three countries into a, “Constitutional Monarchy”. Let me explain as it is very important.

      Until the end of the reign of James II the Kingdom of England’s law was based upon, “The Divine Right of Kings”, and English Monarchs were, and still are, legally sovereign. It was, and still is legally, Her/His Majesty’s Government, as are all other things in that Kingdom, including the people who remain, “Her Majesty’s Subjects”. That situation anly changed after the English Parliament removed from their imported joint monarchs, King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange, their royal veto over the Parliament of England. This left the monarchy still sovereign but delegated, or deputised, parliament with sovereignty over the three Kingdom of England’s countries.

      As Scotland’s legal status had been confirmed by the then leader of all Christendom, (The Pope in Rome), by his acceptance of the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath that not only made Scotland an independent Kingdom but made clear the status of the Monarch as, “Protector of the People’s Sovereignty”, and who could be driven out if not deemed suitable by the people. : –

      “Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.”.

      The subsequent Edinburgh-Northhampton Treaty : –
      “The treaty was signed in Edinburgh by Robert the Bruce, King of Scotland, on 17 March 1328, and was ratified by the English Parliament at Northampton on 1 May. The terms of the treaty stipulated that, in exchange for £100,000 sterling, the English Crown would recognise: –
      1 – The Kingdom of Scotland as fully independent;
      2 – Robert the Bruce, and his heirs and successors, as the rightful rulers;
      3 – The border between Scotland and England as that recognised under the reign of Alexander III (1249-1286).

      So while the Jacobite uprisings, (disputing the English claim that King Billy & Mary had also been sovereign over the Kingdom of Scotland), still raged until 1745), the English Kingdom forced the Scots into The Treaty of Union 1706/7.

      Which is why the Treaty agrees that the Scottish Legal system remains independent as does the Scottish Education System and that no monarch of England should be head of a Scottish religion.
      So how can Westminster assume to be sovereign over the sovereign people of Scotland without their specific consent?

    183. Nana Smith says:


      YouGov poll of Scottish voting intentions for general election:

      SNP 43%
      Labour 23%
      Conservative 17%
      Green 5%
      UKIP 5%
      Lib dem 5%

    184. Betty Boop says:

      @ Robert Louis and EdinScot

      Here is a link to a website which advertises events:

      It was started by a guy during the referendum campaign who had to seek out events or be informed by organisers. The page is now titled The 45.

      During the campaign, I, many other individuals and groups, printed out or bought in leaflets advertising events and distributed them as widely as possible. I also produced a sheet full of weblinks to sites which I distributed when canvassing. In the face of hostile media, most of us had to rely on social media such as Facebook, Twitter, Youtube where information is exchanged freely.

      If it had not been for those sites, many would never have known about Wings, Bellacaledonia, NNS, etc., etc. and we most probably would not have had a 45% yes. I thoroughly appreciate Wings, but, I also appreciate the exchange of information on FB and the myriad debates and discussions posted on Youtube.

      I am sure you didn’t Google it in the first instance, so how did you find out about Wings?

      Perhaps it might just be because others have exchanged information on FB or other sites and passed that information to you either personally or via an Aye Right card.

      When and independent media is up and running there will probably be provision for advertising events or maybe one of the current news sites will start promoting events. Until then, perhaps you might think about organising an events promotion page site or supporting the site mentioned above by contacting individual groups and asking them to submit their events information to them.

    185. Midgehunter says:

      Aldi had an increase in sales of 36% in 2013 compared to 2012. They are looking to have a similar increase for 2014.

      They have at present 470 stores in the UK and are investing to bring the number up to 600.

      They are also quite big in the USA..!

      Read it all in the German “Handelsblatt” business newspaper. (Very similar to the Financial Times).

    186. Midgehunter says:

      The numbers are for the UK, sorry. 🙁

    187. Graeme Doig says:

      Just worked out I’ve given the best part of 5 grand a year to asda for a good few years (Mrs d what you been buying).

      Has to make a wee dent in their pocket money injust Scotland if enough of us are voting with our feet.

      Just a wee part of the rebellion 🙂

    188. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ yesindyref2

      I knew Bowmore quite well as I had a relation who worked at Bunnahabhain, I think it was, overlooking Jura.

      My aunt is buried in the cemetery beside the round kirk.

      So money is the problem for the necessary infrastructure. I would guess that the distilleries would need their own boreholes, to comply with Appelation rules.

    189. The Rough Bounds says:

      I get the distinct feeling that we in the independence movement have all just taken off our boxing gloves. It’s bare knuckle from now on.

    190. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ The Rough Bounds

      Retaliate First!

    191. yesindyref2 says:

      45 or the45 or even 45 plus, really is static and stupid. Apart from its connection with the Jacobites uprising (failed), or even a Colt 45, the name itself is going nowhere, and excludes the 55 who will be needed to get 50 plus. Reactive, good for a grieving and angry week, time to move on.

    192. Alex Clark says:

      @Bugger (the Panda)

      Quite right. Attack is the best form of defence.

    193. yesindyref2 says:

      Local issues. Not sure how much of that there would have been mentioned during the campaign, but perhaps there should have been more.

      A list of projects that need money, water purification plant in Port Ellen £xxx, resumption of daily flight between Stornoway and Benbecula (business and e.g. hospital visits) as a lifeline £xxx, daily ferry between Castlebay / Lochbosdale and Mallaig – in Summer not just winter, new ferry £xx million, annual cost £xxx. Full-scale RET £xxx. Better ferries Shetland / Orkney £xxx, later ferries everywhere. Upgrade A82 / A9 / A76 £xxx. Dualling of rail track £xxx and more services, electrication of the missing bits, etc. etc.

      I don’t think the Scottish Government were prepared to admit they couldn’t afford what they really wanted to do! Maybe too embarrassed. Too afraid of being accused of spending the oil revenue 10 times over.

    194. William Duguid says:

      O/T, folks, but a statement of position, plus a challenge and invitation going forward!

    195. Jim Graham says:

      Yes Stuart – “It is going to be fun finding out” and even more fun winning. Bring it on!

    196. Robert Peffers says:

      @Graeme Doig says: 1 October, 2014 at 9:06 pm:

      “Just worked out I’ve given the best part of 5 grand a year to asda for a good few years (Mrs d what you been buying).

      Has to make a wee dent in their pocket money injust Scotland if enough of us are voting with our feet.

      Just a wee part of the rebellion”

      Funny you should say that – I had, (yesterday), done the same and I’m on my own now, (‘cept for the wee Papillon bitch).
      I bought my entire shopping at ASDA including groceries, bread, meat, frozen food, clothes, utensils, white goods, even electronics and computer consumables and a fair old batch of regular prescriptions filled plus around £100 of Diesel every week. A conservative £9,000 -£9,500 Pa. Can’t get it all at Aldi but will get none of it from ASDA now. Then I have accounts with Halifax & BOS that will all go elsewhere but needs time to sort out Standing Orders and power & gas bill payments by bank transfers. Oh! And I don’t eat teacakes or certin ice cream anyway. B&Q is another regular shop that is getting a miss now too.

    197. C Turner says:

      Can you good folks explain why we believe we will get another referendum and if so, why should I campaign for shitebags.

      I don’t think we will ever get another shot at it, even after a Euro referendum as rUK will be bombarded with similar MSM scaremongering about leaving Europe and also shite it.

      I need reinvigorating!

    198. Paul Walker says:

      Encourage people to bookmark the site, put in their signatures on forums and emails, share on social media. Then you will keep decent numbers. September will not be topped until the next referendum but if you keep up the good work, the numbers will be good

    199. Johnboy says:

      Has anyone thought about setting up an Internet discussion forum affiliated to this site?.

    200. Votadini Jeannie says:

      Is it possible to include an “Events” section where folks can post about upcoming Yes events?

      Then those who don’t do twitter or Facebook would have a central point to see all the rallies, marches etc that are coming up.

    201. David Lyon says:

      For anyone unaware, Newsnet set up a forum on some time ago which was not heavily used or advertised.

      It’s still online at the moment should anyone wish to use it.

    202. Col says:

      Lets replace the red tops with a new blue top. A peoples paper with true journalist`s and truth printed instead of what we currently put up with.

    203. Kevin Lynch says:

      Keep your blog going. Your commentary on the media and press is priceless.

    204. Gary45% says:

      Hi, Just watched a bit of Aljazeera tv, There are two interesting programmes on tonight. Saturday 4th october
      People+Power, its about fracking in the USA, 5.30 – 6pm.

      Listening Post, its about the use of political satire, I saw a wee bit of it this morning and they were talking about how the Spanish have woken up to their STATE RUN tv, and have produced a satirical magazine with serious journalism, 8.30-9pm Its worth a look.

    205. Steuart says:

      Excellent heading for this article…I was actually brought in mind of this quote by Winston Churchill when considering the Independance Campaign in the days after the Referendum result.

      Incidentally, I was also brought in mind of this quote when I read that you would be continuing with the site!…Which Im absolutely delighted to see by the way!

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