The emperor’s old cloaks
To his credit, Ed Miliband seems to have noticed that his party is crumbling beneath his feet. The rot is spreading down from Scotland, and Labour’s vote in Rochester & Strood – a seat it held, with slightly different boundaries, as recently as 2010 – has plummeted to just 16% despite voters in the constituency naming the NHS (usually Labour’s strongest field) as their top priority.
And when modern-day Labour panics, it reaches for a little hammer and smashes the glass on a box marked “IN CASE OF ABSOLUTE EMERGENCY TRY SOCIALISM”, in which it keeps a very old, moth-eaten piece of paper titled “House of Lords reform”.
So today Miliband suddenly pulled what seems to be a brand-new box-fresh policy out of – well, let’s be polite and say “the ether”.
The Lords is to be abolished, we’re told, and replaced with a new elected “Senate”, which will conveniently also serve as some form of regional devolution, though its specific responsibilities and powers have – readers will doubtless be quite astonished to hear – not been laid out.
Mr Miliband’s only problem will be getting anyone to believe it.
Because Labour has been promising House Of Lords reform and/or abolition pretty much for as long as Labour has existed, and it never seems to get round to doing a great deal about it. The last time it was in government it brought forward a bill, in March 2007, to make the Lords a fully-elected chamber. The bill passed by 113 votes, but Labour then sat on it for three more years until it was kicked out in 2010.
What’s more, almost 100 of Labour’s own MPs had rebelled and voted AGAINST making the Lords a democratically-elected House, and our more cynical readers might conclude that – with 217 current Labour Lords sitting on the red benches – the honourable members of the people’s party were just a little too fond of having a cushy retirement home right next door to their workplace, where they can trouser £300 a day just for clocking in for a quick nap.
Then in 2012 Labour sabotaged the coalition government’s plans for an 80%-elected Lords by refusing to back the reform in the face of a likely Tory backbench rebellion, because it knew that if the proposals were enacted the Lib Dems would support Tory moves to redraw election boundaries and eliminate the sizeable unfair advantage that Labour currently enjoys in Westminster elections.
Whoever proposes major and fundamental Lords reform, then (rather than cosmetic twiddling like abolishing hereditary peers), it’s never in Labour’s interests to actually follow through on it. The Lords is ultimately a minor inconvenience to the government of the day, and in emergencies can simply be over-ruled. But being able to dangle peerages and knighthoods in front of wealthy business donors, and offer a lucrative, high-status twilight to loyal party servants, is a very useful tool.
That Miliband apparently expects voters to swallow yet ANOTHER promise to do away with the world’s largest unelected parliamentary chamber, then, is a measure of the fear gripping the Labour leader as he senses next year’s election sliding away. It’ll be interesting to see what Hail Mary pledges the party comes up with next.
The House of Somnambulists
He will never get this through the Lords
😉
Do I smell that this so-called “Senate” might, maybe, just could, perhaps, if you really want, established in Scotland, if the Tories, UKIP, Libdums and SNP really want it and give all this Labour flailing?
Sorted by John McTernan.
Spud to be labeled as “not wanted on voyage,” as part of the deal, mibbes.
What I seen that on the news I thought that’s pretty radical he must be getting worried.
It’ll be interesting to see what Hail Mary pledges the party comes up with next.
“Voting Labour will protect you from the Tories”?
Deceit comes second nature to Labour. They take the meaning of the word to new levels.
When the chips are down, as they are, they will decide that deception is an acceptable tool to deploy.
One day, and it may be sooner than they think, their decision to deceive may very well lead to their ultimate decline,when, as appears to be taking place, the electorate decide that Labour deception can no longer go unpunished.
@ HANDCLAPPING
Spacemonster attacks?
Oh dearie me. Milliband has hit the panic button … AGAIN! (YAWN!)
At what point will Milliband actually realise, if at all, that the people he and his cohorts constantly lie to no longer believe a word any of them spout. He and his earse licking supporters have had their day in Scotland and increasingly so it appears in England as well.
I think we are now fast approaching the point where when asked by a pollster if you are voting Labour the expected response will be “who?” 😛
The Lords to be Abolished awe Cmon noo Rev gie Milliband the benifit of doupt,ask him for a signed decleration( VOW ) I,m sure he can get Cameron & Clegg tae sign it.
Regarding hereditary peers, it’s a common misconception that they have been abolished. We still have 95 of them, thanks to Blair’s half-baked reforms of the 90s. Astonishing, but true.
But, but , but Stu….. has anyone asked the blessed Lords McConnell, Foulkes, Robertson & Lady Helen Liddell what they think of Ed’s bold ‘new’ policy?
@ ronnie anderson
I ken you have a big tongue in yer cheek, but the idea on ClegCam and all the gravy train fellow travelers agreeing to that are beyond negative statistical probability.
Go and and make a bigger hut thanks, if you believe that keich, which I know well you do not.
Aye right ! Sure we believe you BLabour
All manner of wonderful things beyond your wildest dreams will fall at your feet……if you just sign here!
Why not try it. It worked in Scotland.
It still hurts when I think how far we could already be on the journey to a fairer nation.
Why would anyone trust Milliband / Balls / Murphy/ Alexander / Curran etc.
I still have hope that some Labour MSPs will look at gap between word and deed of London Labour and breakaway.
I cannot begin to describe how much I hate the House of Rewards. With independence, we would have seen the back of them. Definately their best pofile.
link to bild.me
I know that care in the community is meant to be better for the recipients but honestly, defenestrated Lords e.g. Watson, Martin, Wallace of Tonkatown, Stephen, Baron Forsyth of Drumlean et al. Can it be good for the community that we should have them thrust upon us when they have been institutionalised in that pimply looking building overlooking the Thames?
Why are real people always last in the considerations of politicians? Why won’t anybody think of the voters? For Foulkes sake!
PS If fifi becomes Deputy Dawg, does she become Foulkes’ boss? Karma. 😉
Is this a burning issue?
It must be true – I read it on the Daily Record website.
Surely this has to be called the ‘House of Max Senate’ ?
“Then in 2012 Labour sabotaged the coalition government’s plans for an 80%-elected Lords by refusing to back the reform in the face of a likely Tory backbench rebellion, because it knew that if the proposals were enacted the Lib Dems would support Tory moves to redraw election boundaries and eliminate the sizeable unfair advantage that Labour currently enjoys in Westminster elections.”
It’s funny how Labour only backs reforms that don’t remove undemocratic practices that help them, isn’t it? It’s almost like they don’t really believe in democracy…
@Paula Is this a burning issue?
I hadn’t thought of that but with the popularity of tattoos, I suppose branding might come back into fashion too.
‘LORD’ on the forehead perhaps?
Labour abolish the House of Lords?
Labour?
Erimine loving Labour?
Aye, right.
DAYS YA VOOO
Just in from GCHQ … transcript of the conversation
JM ….. Ed WTF with this HoL stunt? I though I was to be doing the Cunning Stunt?
EM ….. did you just call me a Stunning Cunt Again Jim?
JM…… not me Ed you are the expurt in dreaming up Cunning Stunts and back stabbing.
EM……. you Scotch Cunt CLIK!!!!
They really must be in the doo doo if they’re bringing out this hoary old chestnut again. Yawn.
@ Bugger the Panda, um ah wrang or are they no awe bum chums.
ok scratch the 1st comment Millibands taking British Politics & Politicians tae a new low lower than the last time, still couple hours of daylight left,an ah think theres still a 24 hour clock um ah rite.
In the top 10 of issues concerning voters, Lords reform probably comes in at number 15.
You’d be amazed though how the current unelected chamber has its supporters amongst so-called ‘progressives’. In November 2010 there was a public debate in London on the issue. The motion was “An elected House of Lords will be bad for British democracy”. Speaking in FAVOUR of the motion? One Shami Chakrabarti….. Director of ‘Liberty’.
I would have thought this might actually be a vote winner, but reading the BBC comments, most voters in England seem to actually like the House of Cronies.
Don’t know how representative they are, but that seems surprising.
Of course, Miliband and Labour are called out on being desperate and hypocritical which is of course true.
And this could just be another way to pretend that power and influence is devolved to Scotland and the English regions, without actually meaning much.
Anybody wie any spare cash under the mattress, think about a Financialy secure investmemt TOILET PAPER the price is sure to rise.
@Grousebeater
And narcoleptics perhaps?
Under the Parliament Act the Commons can over-rule the Lords on a money bill. For any other bill, the Lords can only delay it for a maximum of a year if they don’t like it.
The Parliament Act was a purely temporary fudged compromise, pending replacement of the Lords by an elected chamber, which was meant to be coming some time soon.
It was passed in 1911.
I won’t be holding my breath.
You know what? I am sick of it! Totally sick of the lies, the deceit, the false promises made time after time.
It never STOPS and it won’t ever stop until we kick them out on their arse. We need to finish this for good. Don’t expect anyone else to do it for you.
YOU have to step up to the plate and say No More.
Trying to vote Labour these days is reminiscent of my childhood when I used to go into stores like Hargreaves in Open all Hours. They sold everything under one roof. Labour are like those shops. Would you care for a little bit of Socialism sir? No? we could do you a nice bit of neo fascist or even Liberal if you require. Labour is now officially an emporium with too much to sell, with customers who are too shrewd to buy.
Yeah, the cheque is in the post and pigs do indeed fly.
Labour is a socialist, democratic movement?
Since when?
Where do i sign? Quick, get me in on this
Just what we need, elected drooling idiots who were failures in the job, who are now not in the job, to be elected to not be in yet other meaningless jobs that are to be created by a meaningless party who wont get the job.
“Job Done” i think that’s what i mean…
it looks like the labour party are intent on abolishing themselves.
they’ll be offering to increase tea cake and 2p coin production next.
“But being able to dangle peerages and knighthoods in front of IT’S OWN MP’s – ie Jim Murphy et al and offer a lucrative, high-status twilight to loyal party servants, is a very useful tool.
Poor Jim Murphy – all set to give up his Westminster seat, take on the poisoned chalice as leader of the Scottish Labour branch and not even the promise of a Lordship at the end of it!
The job just gets less attractive as the week goes on!
Of course, Ed Milliband has as much intention of keeping that promise as he did the infamous “Vow” ! If people don’t realise it yet, it’s about time they woke up to the fact that Labour will do and say ANYTHING to get elected!!
The imperial senate? 😉
It is easy to see in Labour’s performances of late,
that there is simply no part of what they do is honest and true.
Any wonder then that the entire Labour movement is dependent on a blind army of deprived, under educated and intellectually challenged individuals, the majority of whom are both brainwashed and then trained to vote for just two colours, red and yellow.
I googled ‘synonyms of corrupt’ – here’s what I got:-
dishonest, dishonourable, unscrupulous,
unprincipled, amoral, untrustworthy,
underhand, deceitful, double-dealing,
disreputable, discreditable, shameful,
scandalous; corruptible, bribable,
buyable, venal, fraudulent,
swindling, grafting, criminal,
lawless, felonious, villainous,
nefarious, iniquitous; malfeasant;
crooked, shady, tricky,
dirty, low-down, rascally,
scoundrelly; bent, dodgy;
Is there anyone of fair mind and sound of eye and ear, would not say that every word above can be rightly applied to the Labour Party.
And also to Jim Murphy.
Alex Clark, absolutely agree. That an odious person like Murphy is now being cynically promoted by the media and the BBC, surely for God’s sake will cause the feeble NOs to realise they are but “impoverished pawns in the game”.
Ed Miliband’s attempt to create clear red water between himself and his big rival Jim Murphy.
Lordies this nite I lay down to sleep,I pray your reply can wait a week am struggling tae get ma heid roon these policy changes, have mercy.
[…] The emperor’s old cloaks […]
In short, Ed — very few in Scotland believe a fecking word you or anyone else in Labour says anymore. You’re finished.
Narcokleptics.
From his performance at the Labour Party conference, through the fiasco that has been the ‘branch office’ saga and now to looking ahead to the GE2015; Milliband puts me in mind of one of those old fashioned second rate musical hall acts.
You know, the incompetent magician whose act falls into disarray with each new illusion that he seeks to entertain the audience with. Meanwhile, the tired out orchestra tries to keep the mood alive.
Alas, I fear the pigeons have flown his cape and there is no rabbit in the hat for his last gasp HoL trick.
I think it’s time to bring the curtain down on this performance.
@BtP & @Ronnie I’ve been measuring that tear in the UJ on Ronnies hut over the past few weeks and, ah’m certain it’s getting wider 😛
I get the feeling that David Milliband is beginning to pace around the back room getting cold feet about his return to the ring.
I always figured that Ed was sent in to take the punches but things have got so unravelled that it’s hard to see David want to come back in to the fray.
I genuinely believe that Labour chose self destruct when they stood against Yes.
How can the principles of conflicted Slab realign with the genuine needs of people after all that’s happened.
Even outside Scotland labour words seem empty.
Ed droning on about stuff makes me switch off.
It didn’t used to be the case but the media machine has now turned on Labour.
It must be exhausting playing the underdog.
6 figure sums are being paid out to the new Labour campaign strategist. If I have this correct he’s a protégé of the American dude employed by the Conservatives to do their saddles.
So I guess this must be a back to core values play for Ed. It just seems hollow and late, hasn’t Clegg been murmerring about this for ages and it gets sat on yet again.
Labour had the chance to reinvent themselves north and south, had they supported indy.
I hope labour supporters get some bang for their bucks with this new radical approach, but somebody had it correct earlier – yawn.
The House of Lords is a bold symbol of English/British nationalism, keeping alive the notion of an aristocratic tier of elite people who are born/fit to rule not only GB but a global empire that although diminished still exists as an idea which is disseminated through the spread of language, culture, literature, war campaigns etc and dovetails with a peculiar notion expressed in Blake’s poem/hymn Jerusalem, that England will somehow be the place where an eventual ‘second coming’ will one day materialise.
Such notions of being divinely chosen still haunts England’s idea of itself as being a ‘special people’, and explains their obsession with pomp and circumstance, military expeditions, as well as the retention of the Royals and the aristocratic tiers of their class system.
Scrap the HoL? Let’s not be too silly, Mr Ed. Not unless you fancy a visit from those who protect and police that system.
@AuldA rickshaw for Imperial Senate on board sterio system.
@manandboy 4:37pm
I thought that JM had been added to that list of synonyms but was disappointed to see it was in a separate sentence.
This will have been on an email sent by a junior official or office aide, who will not have had the authority, and ED was out of the office at the time, and there was a misunderstanding; if things go wrong.
@ Jim Thomson by the end of this farce the UJ will be no more
Grand Canyons taking its place or Cheddar Gorge,pass the crackers popcorns finnished.
A written constitution would be a damn sight cheaper than having a second upper chamber and would in fact fulfil much of the same constitutional safety net function.
RE; The Eggman, the unions are backing the other guy, and given his enormous and obvious popularity with the “Naw we have spoken” brigade, he could embarrassingly lose to a “wummin” fae the branch office
“OH THE IRONY”
We had the opportunity to rid ourselves of the HoL, permanently, unfortunately we didn’t take it. Next time we will, as for Blabour promising anything; too many lies, too many snouts in the trough. Cheerio Labour and good riddance.
@ Tamson
92 hereditary peers now I think. But, when one dies, they elect another one to take his place. So the total won’t reduce over time either.
Further, I think they can now also get elected as MPs and sit in the cabinet. Some reform!
It’s actually quite difficultto get clear information on this.
link to parliament.uk
@ David 1 November,2014 at 4.06pm
Haha
: – )
If it’s a choice between the elected idiots at Westminster and the Lords, I can see why some people aren’t rushing to abolish it.
Some of the Lords actually read the bills they’re voting on, and are rather less inclined to rush through bad law in response to tabloid headlines. The good ones are outvoted by the party placemen and placewomen, though, of course.
An elected second chamber is pointless. My vote is to appoint Lords for a few years at a time by random selection from the electoral roll, similar to jury duty.
If we’re talking electoral reform, getting rid of first past the post is much more important.
Great title. Imagine the likes of Lord Foulkes actually agreeing to being kicked off the entirely unelected, unaccountable gravy train? Another con from our imperial masters. There’s dozens of bishop lords too, so God won’t like it. English Gothic farce and very embarrassing listening to same troughers that argued against, now not just fighting to keep it but boosting it to 2000 seats.
link to electoral-reform.org.uk
I can mind Betty Boothroyd incredibly hypocritical, with Jim Naughty groveling hard to her when she was desperate to jump in the trough but thats Naughtie style groveling to our imperial masters.
Last week Naughtie was groveling to that Westminster peado judge and how she simply had to stay in the post and how she was so marvelous and so brilliant and so what if she had dinner with such and such hero of Britishness, according to the buffoon. What happened, judge quit.
The BBC, groveling lick spittles to teamGB establishment, since ever
link to theguardian.com
DON’T PANIC!
Have no fear peeps. Never forget that however black it appears on the horizon it is always blacker the next day! 😀
No matter what we think about RED Ed and his pathetic attempts to destroy the Labour party we all love and adore always remember that we do have a saviour of universal proportions sitting in the wings just waiting for the call. I refer of course to the one … the only … the saviour of the world … Gordon Brown! 😛
Yes that’s right Foulkes is on twitter saying he has always wanted the HoL abolished.
Judge a wo/man by his/her actions not words as folk say to Foulkes why don’t you all resign on mass to prove your point – tumbleweed.
I’m also sick of it all but a huge number of Brits have always been in thrall to their ‘lords and masters’ especially in England and those Scots that George Orwell despised who want deep down to be English eg Naughtie.
The fact that the UK is deep in poverty and the Royals still swan about and get an INCREASE in their allowance makes no sense to me.
So dear old Millipede wants to get rid of the £300 a day hangers on does he?
Maybe that was what he was thinking about when he *ahem* donated to a homeless woman the other day. The man is an absolute DISGRACE! There again I’ve always found that those who come from the millionaire background and are born with the old silver spoon in their gob are always the same ones who give the LEAST to charities and the homeless.
This is from the Daily Mail.
link to archive.today
@liz
but, but , but, if they resign en-masse, that means those nasty Tories will simply steamroller through all their terrible laws. oh … hang on …
BBC MURPHY UPDATE
BBC Scotland News,5.30pm, 01/11/2014
90% coverage
[…] but there’s reasons why this isn’t going to happen as Wings Over Scotland explains here. And here’s where we are now; Labour are desperate to get anything to connect to anyone of […]
Halloween, witches and warlocks, scary.
Ed Miliband being handed any power whatsoever, terrifying.
A handy timeline
link to parliament.uk
Begins
“18th century: A single UK Parliament is established.”
Doesn’t mention fact that Scottish Lords were limited to 16 ( I think) and no Scottish church reps allowed although English bishops still are.
Need more popcorn (burp)
The talk in Fife at the moment is that Gordon Brown, seemingly, has changed his mind and is NOT stepping down as MP for Kirkcaldy!
I’m sure this was in his speech at the Party Conference, but he just forgot to mention it.
Wonder what it will be next month? Probably some vague commitment to “renationalise rail services”, which can also be dropped quickly or changed to mean “ticket services” or something like that…
Does anyone remember the 1980s and Margaret Thatcher and Norman Tebbitt? Does no one else think that Jim Murphy is actually to the right of them? Even worse, he is completely rabid and would sell his country/party/grandmother at the drop of a hat.
I have heard the unions have not got the script (which has one word on it and that word is Murphy) and are not playing ball. Don’t they know the BBC has spoken? Will be interesting to see the unionists direct “Project Fear” at their own kind now. Rats in a sack doesn’t begin to describe them…
Oh, while I long for indy for so many reasons, one of the main ones is being forever free of the BBC. Let that rancid organisation stay on in rUKOK and stew in their own juices as they find someone else to demonise (Greens?) and someone else to praise to the skies (UKIP?).
If you go down to the woods today!
BBC Reporting Scotland News tonight, I thought they were showing clips from Hitler’s Nuremburg Rallies.
But a closer look showed it was only the end of Jim Murphy’s speech in Edinburgh today.
Get ready for BBC Scotland to give 100% unashamed support for Murphy. Similar to the way they hailed UKIP in the run up to the Euro elections, which gave us a UKIP MEP who is wired up to the planet Zorg.
The good old Beeb, putting Scotland first.
@Onwards says: 1 November, 2014 at 4:14 pm:
“And this could just be another way to pretend that power and influence is devolved to Scotland and the English regions, without actually meaning much.”
Nah! This is the old, old story of opening a back door method of classing the country & Kingdom of Scotland as just another, but more distant, region of the Sovereign Country & Kingdom of England. You will note that none of the Unionist Parties ever comes up with the one and only real way of dividing up the bipartite United Kingdom with a reasonable chance of it both working & being acceptable.
Getting the parliament of the country of England out of the United Kingdom Parliament and thus having a real federal system.
Thought I’d post the timeline so you can appreciate the blistering rate of reform over the centuries ending in 3rd SEP 2012.
3 September 2012: Deputy prime minister makes a statement announcing the withdrawal of the House of Lords Reform Bill.
6 August 2012: Deputy prime minister announces that legislation to reform the House of Lords has been dropped.
July 2012: Lords library publishes note on public attitudes on Lords reform on 3 July. House of Commons debates Lords Reform Bill on 10 July and the bill is given a second reading by 462 to 124 votes. Catch up on the Commons debate on the bill.
2012: The Joint Committee on the Draft House of Lords Reform Bill publishes its report on 23 April recommending an electoral mandate and that 80 per of members should be elected and 20 per cent nominated. Members follow the report with a debate on 30 April. The House of Lords Reform Bill is introduced in the Commons on Wednesday 27 June.
2011: Deputy Prime Minister presents Parliament with the House of Lords Reform Draft Bill in May. Read report from May 2011.
2007: The Government published its White Paper, The House of Lords: Reform, setting out the policy for a hybrid House of Lords with 50 per cent elected members and 50 per cent appointed members. In March, the House of Commons votes on the options for composition supporting an elected House of Lords. A week later the House of Lords votes on composition favouring a fully appointed House.
2002: A joint committee is appointed to consider House of Lords reform in May 2002 and reappointed at the start of the new session in November 2002. It publishes House of Lords Reform: First Report in December.
2001: The Queen confirms her intention to create 15 new non party-political House of Lords members.
2000: The independent House of Lords Appointments Commission is established to recommend and approve suitable candidates for membership.
1999: The House of Lords Act receives Royal Assent, reducing the number of hereditary peers by more than 600 and freezing the number which remains at 92 until further reform.
1997: After the general election, the Labour government announces a bill to remove the automatic right of hereditary peers to sit and vote in the House as ‘the first stage in a process of reform’.
1978: A committee chaired by Lord Home of the Hirsel proposes a chamber in which two-thirds of members would ultimately be elected and one-third appointed, but reform is not pursued.
1968 and 1969: A White Paper, House of Lords Reform and a Parliament (No.2) Bill proposing new roles for members are abandoned by the prime minister after debate in both Houses.
1963: The Peerages Act is introduced making it possible for hereditary peeresses and all Scottish peers to sit in the House and for Lords to surrender their peerages.
1958: Peers who do not or are unable to attend the House can apply for ‘leave of absence’ from this date. The Macmillan government initiates the Life Peerages Act 1958, giving the crown authority to create life peers (including women members for the first time), who can sit and vote in the House and whose peerages expire on death.
1949: The Parliament Act, dealing with the powers of the Lords, becomes law and updates the terms of the 1911 Act with regards to vetoing bills.
1929-1935: Various private members bills covering life peerage are introduced and withdrawn.
Early 1920s: The King mentions reform in three consecutive speeches. The government then puts forward resolutions including that ‘hereditary peers be elected by their own order’ in 1922. The debate is adjourned and never resumed. Similar proposals are put forward and rejected in 1927.
1918: The Bryce Report outlines proposals for functions and structure of the House, including the examination and revision of bills and general questions of policy. No action is taken as the government is preoccupied with World War I at the time.
1911: The Leader of the Opposition proposes that members be indirectly elected in a bill which is later dropped. The Parliament Act 1911 is introduced to enable the Commons to pass money bills and public bills.
1910: The new Liberal government proposes a ‘strong and efficient second chamber’, but fails to make agreements on the degree of power.
1907: The Rosebery Report makes recommendations on how peers should be selected in the Lords. No action is taken on the report.
End of 19th century: The House of Lords is represented by hereditary peers, representative peers for Scotland and Ireland, noblemen, bishops and lords of appeal.
1893: Gladstone’s Home Rule Bill defeat is attributed to ‘political imbalance’ in the House.
1886 and 1888: The Commons debates the hereditary right to sit in the Lords.
18th century: A single UK Parliament is established.
Is that an old cloak over the new clothes?
Flower of Scotland
“The talk in Fife at the moment is that Gordon Brown, seemingly, has changed his mind and is NOT stepping down as MP for Kirkcaldy!”
Damn, that will be them back up to four seats again in the 2015 GE.
@Ronnie:
rickshaw for Imperial Senate on board sterio system.
Rank has its privileges!
RT uk news programme – ahhhh what a refreshing change…
Flower of Scotland says:
The talk in Fife at the moment is that Gordon Brown, seemingly, has changed his mind and is NOT stepping down as MP for Kirkcaldy!
HE may not have changed his mind about remaining the M.P. for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath however WE the people have an alternative view on this matter. 😉
P45 for Gordon Brown … P45 for Gordon Brown … 😛
heedtracker
Re: The child abuse enquiry in London
They are struggling to find a member of their Establishment to head the enquiry. The Establishment know where all the skeletons are and they don’t want all their sordid secrets being exposed to the lower classes.
Flower of Scotland says:
The talk in Fife at the moment is that Gordon Brown, seemingly, has changed his mind and is NOT stepping down as MP for Kirkcaldy!
They must be off their heads! Gordon, who has even pensioners screened at his “talks”, who cant relate to real life “bigoted” women, who avoided a GE when he took over as PM, that Gordon, standing when there is a whiff of the outside possibility of being beat? They’re mental!
Its only with the SNP at 52% and on ScotlandVotes that he looses but even so I’d say that was cause enough for Broon to step doon.
But it could be just that I’ve had CHICKEN to my tea 🙂 Show off!
There are many many reasons to abolish the house of perpetual pish stench but this was one of our wee ginger dugs crackers when sith lord lang disrespected our nation in the wholly unelected chamber..
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
cynicalHighlander 6.11pm
Absolutely Brilliant pic, made ma night big man, well done.
Is that the Murphy/Dugdale campaign poster.
The only problem with the zombie electorate is they will believe anything the Turd in the red t-shirt says.
The mindset of the red zombie is for example, the SNP could offer every voter in Scotland 1 trillion pounds each and Milliband and co could take a trillion pounds from each of them and they would still vote for the Red Turd.
They really are that STUPID.
Guaranteed come the next election The red turds will still be banging on about A S even when N S is the new leader,(the amount of times I had to say to people at the Referendum you are not voting for A S)They seemed to portray him as the bogey man they really are that THICK. Honestly I know some of them and they truly are that blinkered.
So lets get rid of the red turds completely
Gary
Of course, Labour never abolished hereditary peers. Over one in seven peers sit in the Lord’s due to ancient hereditary title. Over 100 of them out if a total of circa 780 Lords
O/T – but the Scottish Police Federation to the Smith Commission is really worth a look and includes the caveat – “The Scottish Police Federation believes the Commission should make clear that regardless of its recommendations, there are no guarantees these will be delivered.”
link to spf.org.uk
I wonder if BBC will cover it – probably being too wee, poor and stupid frothing at the mouth over Slim Jim
Re Gordon Brown — it is interesting to wonder at what the SNP would need to be at in the opinion polls for Broon to back down from a fight. I think anything which suggests that he is neck to neck with the SNP candidate — and he would bottle it. Especially as he could not rely on so much media coverage as before come 2015: the BBC will be involved in its UKIP love-in, followed by Tories, Murphy…. Broon trails in rather a lowly place in the WM hierarchy…. although thankfully well above “that evil dicator who willnae take no for an answer and shut up for a generation Nicola Sturgeon…”
cynicalHighlander says:
1 November, 2014 at 6:11 pm
If you go down to the woods today!
Gets funnier every time i see it.
🙂
All we need now is a punchy political message to add,
and then get it into every household in Scotland.
@M 6:53pm
Spot on, SPF! They are obviously concerned about the possibility of unrest in the aftermath of non-delivery. As you point out, that’s not in the best interest of the “news” media.
Exclusive picture of Murphy at his leadership launch….
Pictured with Hanzala Malik, Sarah Boyak, Kezia Dugdale and Neil Findlay
Lookin good James……
link to tinypic.com
@Kenny 6:58
I reckon that there will be a split in BBC coverage as the GE2015 approaches. The London-centric lot will be wall-to-wall UKIP and the PQ based bunch of liggers will still be punting SLab and JM.
Totally and utterly O/T …
Is it just my aging ears or, are the SCD Dave Arch singers crap this year?
Ronnie Anderson
What time will you be in George SQ tomorrow?
@Caz_m about 10.30 under the horses erse where we were last time.
FFS The EBC not only have the dick out about Slim Jim but now they have an Old Firm match to salivate about for the next 3 months to remind us how shit and divided Scotland is…
Abolish the House of Lords before several of the London Labour branch and a few of their chums in charge of broadcasting and the press get their ‘reward’ for the No campaign?
Not bloody likely, is it? 😀
Lets be clear about this folks!
There will NEVER be another referendum on independence.
Thats a given.
Only reason Cameron give us one in the first place was because he thought that we would only get circa 30% of the vote, as the polls were indicating at the time.
However, as the polls got up to nearer 45%, london panicked, and offered the Scots “major new powers.”
The Scots, for reasons most of us fail to comprehend, voted for the status quo, thus giving up the right to becoming the 15th wealthiest country on the planet!
Mindboggling!!
And if you poor deluded souls think for one nanosecond that “significant new powers” will be given to our “pretendy parliament” (controlling not one ha”penny of our own resources), then you definitely need to be looked at by a psychiatrist!!
We are now well and truly “back in our little box” and no amount of shouting “we wiz robbed” will alter the fact that london will continue to shaft us for evermore.
The fact the SNP have quadrupled their membership is neither here nor there, from a london viewpoint. All it means, locally, is that SLAB will die a painful death at the ballot boxes here, to the SNP’s advantage.
The only way ANY progress will happen is if Scotland decides to grow a backbone and go down the Irish route of freedom.
General Post Office, Glasgow, anyone??
BBC pushing Murphy, but there seems to be a different view by Unison, Aslef and TSSA. While I would love to see Murphy beaten just to annoy him, the BBC, Telegraph etc, how could these unions know so soon that their members want Findlay?
Even worse if these decisions are taken In London.
@nigel (farage?) that very defeatist and believe it if you wish.
The Brit establishment has survived for 100s of years by being pragmatic, maybe Scotland will be too much trouble when they have other worries.
On twitter someone was saying that the Smurph hates WoS as at one of his crate shout fests he spent ages slagging off the good Rev. HaHa
@nigel 7.30
Are you completely insane?
“It’ll be interesting to see what Hail Mary pledges the party comes up with next.”
Free ‘scottish’ owls for all! 😀
Old firm, will that be men kicking balls again?
@nigel
That’s some opinion. Who would you be speaking for? Yourself or something else?
“There will NEVER be another referendum on independence.
Thats a given.”
A defeatist attitude that needs wiping out.
“We are now well and truly “back in our little box” and no amount of shouting “we wiz robbed” will alter the fact that london will continue to shaft us for evermore.”
I ask you once again to confirm that you are only talking for yourself, I for one will not be going into any box and neither will most readers here I assume.
“The only way ANY progress will happen is if Scotland decides to grow a backbone and go down the Irish route of freedom.”
What are you smoking? Crack cocaine?
Neil Findlay campaign is seemingly fizzing about the BBC.
@ cynicalHighlander 6.11 so thats the long the short & T all if it,but I think your strechimg credulity are bit much, ach weil if they labs kin dey it so,s can You.great pics.
If You Go Down To The Woods Today…
Teddy Bear’s Picnic written by Jimmy Kennedy who was responsible for introducing Margaret Hilda Roberts to Dennis Thatcher in the early 50’s.
The rest was history.
Compelling but pointless information comes too easily to me.
Just tag him with Jim”ll Fix it, its so BBC and very apt
I have to say I agree with every thing. That Nigel says if you do not then you badly underestimate your eneimies because make no mistake that is what they are ,they will break every rule to make Sure that they win and you loose eventually we will have to fight fire with fire sad but true
@gillie
Why would they have a problem with BBC Murphy? Surely they don’t expect the westmisnter bubble broadcasters to give a shit about anyone who isn’t an MP and London Labour’s chosen candidate? Bit late in the day for some of those in SLAB to suddenly realise the BBC are laughably biased.
@Blair paterson
People like you and Nigel are our enemies. From your own mouth.
I’d bet you’d fight from the safety of your own living room.
Current nominations for the Labour leadership/deputy elections are interesting, both for the order in which they are presented and for the lists of nominees:
link to archive.today
That nice Mr Harron has a relevant analysis across on his blog.
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
😛
Correction – I don’t mean nominees – I mean those they are nominated by.
Heard it before,they won’t do it as they are too close to the Tories and their money mates,you know they’ll end up with a two tier system or something where so many senators will be waved through by appointment or some such.
I sense a couple of spooks have been let loose.
The credit for pic goes to the Indy Girls I am just passing their excellent work on.
@gillie:
If that’s true, Findlay’s team need to be pointing it out to Labour members at every opportunity. Whether they are capable of that sort of tactic, or whether they can even find Labour members to tell, are other questions.
Ronnie Anderson
“@Caz_m about 10.30 under the horses erse where we were last time.”
How romantic Ronnie, see you there.
@Blair paterson.
The Irish path is not for us. Please read the newly published book “Vivid Faces” by Prof Foster. The Ireland at the beginning of the 20th Century was nothing like Scotland is now.
link to amazon.co.uk
Please grow up.
It wouldn’t bother me if Murphy becomes leader of Scottish Labour. But BBC Scotland are taking it too far now. They are actually turning a normal news report into a Scottish Labour, party political broadcast.
They are spending nearly the full news bulletin talking about Jim Murphy and Scottish Labour.
We are getting less and less time spent on any other political news in Scotland.
One to keep an eye on.
Nigel’s waters have broken,
New job for you.
If there’s one thing the referendum should have taught us, it’s that there are a LOT of very very gullible and easily-swayed people out there.
I’d be willing to bet there are a few who’ll believe even this tripe!
Hopefully nowhere near enough to patch up Labour’s sinking ship in time for the next election…
More ballot papers in bins in lothians. Irvine Welsh on twitter.
Nigel posted exactly the same rant on “Scot Goes Pop” at about 7.35. Wonder where else it will appear. He needs to take his tablets and have an early night.
Nigel
The only way ANY progress will happen is if Scotland decides to grow a backbone and go down the Irish route of freedom.
What a useful and productive contribution to the debate. Count me out of the bombing campaign – ma gebs dinnae look too hot under or over a balaclava. It’s just no a guid look for me.
Maybe take up a sport or something, fencing or squash maybe. Meanwhile the rest of us will continue our peaceful revolution if that’s ok with you
gillie says:
Neil Findlay campaign is seemingly fizzing about the BBC.
Don’t tell me that that very nice Mr Findlay and his followers think the BBC is *ahem* BIASED by any chance Gillie? 😛
Surely they all know that the BBC does not do bias. Well that is what THEY keep telling anyone who listens to them anyway. 😉
Sorry link
link to youtube.com
The more you look at the Murphy/Dugdale campaign poster, the funnier it gets. very addictive.
We need to get this onto roadside billboards.
caz-m says:
Ronnie Anderson
“@Caz_m about 10.30 under the horses erse where we were last time.”
That comment is just begging for a response but I promised my partner that I’d *cough* clean up my act so I’m biting my tongue instead. WARNING! Do NOT go about biting your tongue it is BLOODY painful! 😛
@ Alex Clark, Alex we will always get the negativity from some people,we know what we’re about, positivity on a larger scale,as you say,( fighting from the safety of they’re own living room )we started like that but soon realised we had to take the fight outside four walls,like many others & the many people we informed to make the right decision, Alex hold on to that thought,as Moses said step over the Red sea or somthing in relation to that.
I had two comments edited by the Herald’s moderators today. I accused Magnus Gardham of sexism for predicting Murphy would be able to solve Labour’s problems better than Johan did without giving any reason leaving us to assume its because he’s a man. They edited the whole argument out of the first comment, so I rephrased it and they posted the argument with the accusation against Gardham redacted. So it seems we are not allowed to criticise Herald journalists. I wonder if that is blanket policy, would be interesting to see if such a critique was allowed under a McWhirter column.
O/T
Good submission for the Smith Commission from Catalonia
link to pilaraymara.blogspot.co.uk
I sense a couple of spooks have been let loose.
ditto cynicalHighlander
Who wants to see Edinburgh or Glasgow transformed into Belfast 1971?
@ Lesley-Anne I dont know the name of the statue might be the Empress of India ( hope she has clothes on )but we have every thing else covered Big Brush n Bucket in case the horse takes a dump,nobody can say we dont give our outings fourthought or however many Wingers turn up, we all muck in.
Whatever happened to the consistently rammed down our throats, endlessly repeated, ‘only 30% for independence’ alleged findings by flaky thinks tanks, academics, and reiterated ad nauseam in the House of Lords?
Since when did 45% equal 30%?
@ Capella enjoyed that Catalonian Submission to Smith good read ,Thanks.
A quick check on the BBC website for articles in the last week:
Jim Murphy: 9
Neil Findlay: 2 (and half of the text in the one today is dedicated to, guess who, Jim Murphy)
Sarah Boyack: 1
Ronnie dear – if anything untoward happens re the erse, save it for the roses.
@cirsium – ditto
Is Nigel is a John McTernan troll plant?
O/T
This story about Russian bombers (Bears) is on the BBC site just now, check out the pic.
link to bbc.co.uk
Now, this is the same picture that was used before the referendum (I’m at a loss to remember exactly when) when a similar event occurred but I remember it because of the “BBC” in the planes signature/name..
So my question is this.
Does Russia only have one Bomber, or does the BBC only have one picture?
We should be told 😉
@ Nigel F-Aff and take your we bro ( ng ) with you.
At the referendum I was on polling duty outside the local polling station. There were a couple of young Tory No supporters standing opposite on the other side of the entrance. I was getting bored so tried to indulge them in some debate.
I asked them how they could support a system that purports to be democratic but is demonstrably not so as Britain has an unelected house (Lords) making judgements on the people’s governance.
The young bloke said ”It’s tradition…it’s always been like that.”
I then pointed out that it was tradition that women weren’t allowed to vote and by his own argument they still wouldn’t be allowed to vote as ”it had always been like that.”
He then said, ”Ah, but they fought against it!”
I was gobsmacked by his lack of logic. I gave up on him and asked the young woman her opinion. She agreed with me and said that she didn’t approve of the House of Lords…but that she was still against a Yes vote and was still intending to vote Tory: this in spite of the fact that a No vote was a vote for the continuation of the House of Lords and its complete lack of democracy as regards the general populace.
She was in fact voting against her own interests. I just gave up on them. It’s not only Labour that have their senseless sheep; the Tories have them too.
Nigel – that is very nasty talk, even if you feel deflated or believe what you are saying, you could use some judgement and keep it to yourself. The Press is actually very good at the moment with the Polls and talk of referendum, even if it may not be for some time.
The point is, as I keep saying to all the nasty No campers out there – it is and was a political movement, and its our democratic right to pursue it. Its even more important to pursue and press our democratic rights given what Cameron and Co are doing to piss all over them.
Obviously, without the pressure of Project Fear right in their face in the past few weeks, some people are actually seeing how things are panning out – like really shit – and are perhaps saying – just as we knew they would – perhaps we should have taken our chance when we had it.
We don’t need those among us kicking Project Fear and Cringe back into life, thanks.
I can see a Sunday Herald front page pic of a yellow Scotland and a couple of red splodges and a bubble with ‘Mayday Mayday.’
@ Paula Rose , Thank you for that Pearl of Wisdom O She of Culture, your many admirers were at the Gala Ball on Thursday nite,guess who was the subject of conversation the absent Bell of the Ball Your Goodself, Ian/Cactus/Patrician/Oneornot/Myself were extolling Your virtues You have a new admirer Greame Doig & Im sure he,ll be enamoured with Your Grace & Charm XXX.
I think you mean Belle Ronnie.
@ turnbul drier ah dont think its the same picture I had seen,the backgrounds differant,as sombody said earlier,ma tounges in ma cheek ok Grouse B.
Russians have been doing this for years,nothing new. They are just reminding UK that they are still there. Only pops up on news when the story serves a purpose,like during the odd referendum or someone needs to look hard on something.
Valerie
if the number’s who want indyscot had fallen away, then nigel may have a point, but since the opposite is true, he doesn’t.
it is our democratic right to continue demand indyscot.
there will be another indyscotref and it will be sooner rather than later.
🙂
Devils advocate time and to be honest if someone bites my head off it will take my mind off ma bad back.
I think Nigel and others (maybe many) are still experiencing a feeling of being betrayed by there fellow countrymen and women. Add to this the sense of powerlessness you get when looking at the WM establishment and how it operates to preserve it’s interests (had a wee defeatist rant about that myself last night) and you have the perfect storm for an expression of anger which can appear dangerous and offensive.
I don’t disagree with comments condemning Nigel at all and there is certainly no place for comments like this on Wings.
I suspect Nigel will regret airing his, reason bereft, thoughts here and we might show him a bit of grace if we haven’t hanged him first.
@ turnbul drier
msean
Not to worry when the Murph is FM ,with his good socialist credulity he will have a word with comrade Putin, job done no more flying two finger salutes,put your faith in Tim he can fix anything, awe fek ah put Tim insteed of Jim,ah wiz thinking aboot Timmy Mallet here.
Nigel at 7.30pm today posted the exactly same rant on Derek Bateman’s blog and Lallans Peat Worrier as well as Scot Goes Pop,all within a few minutes of each other.
Alistair Livingston
“Nigel at 7.30pm today posted the exactly same rant on Derek Bateman’s blog and Lallans Peat Worrier as well as Scot Goes Pop,all within a few minutes of each other.”
Sounds like Nigel may be ‘drunk in charge of a keyboard’ … Oh dear
@Graeme Doig
After the referendum result, I felt down, in fact almost a depression and totally deflated.
I suspect 1,600,000 others felt the same way.
How many of them though believe that the way to win the argument is to follow the example of Ireland?
Who could possibly dream of planting bombs in shopping centre bins? It’s ridiculous and anyone promoting shit like that is an idiot and I’d prefer that I didn’t have to read their posts.
The porridge is being stirred and we’re the porridge. Ignore.
@caz-m,also watched BBC news earlier,and was gobsmacked by the propaganda! The Murphy show followed by the royal marines getting freedom of Glasgow, WTF. Switched to STV for a comparison which was totally different. They led with new poll on Yes vote,then SNP. I have noticed STV have much more balance since their poll the other day, has the penny dropped time will tell!
@Iain Gray’s Subway Lament says: 1 November, 2014 at 7:37 pm:
“Free ‘scottish’ owls for all! “
Whit!
Div ye no ken whan Inglis Owls flee ower the English tae Scottish borders they cheenge intil hoolets?
Wi dinna hae ony Owls ower here in Scotland – thir aa hoolets.
@Graeme Doig
“I think Nigel and others (maybe many) are still experiencing a feeling of being betrayed by there fellow countrymen and women. Add to this the sense of powerlessness you get when looking at the WM establishment and how it operates to preserve it’s interests (had a wee defeatist rant about that myself last night) and you have the perfect storm for an expression of anger which can appear dangerous and offensive.”
That describes exactly how I felt, and have still been feeling since Sept 19th.
The only cure I’ve found for it is to lose myself in some sort of activity, not necessarily political, just something that fully occupies my mind so I don’t give myself time to feel that “helpless anger” sort of feeling.
The demo in Glasgow was one. Others are my various technical side projects. Right now I’m doing the November National Novel Writing Month challenge too.
I suppose some people find it harder to distract themselves than others…
If the BBC continues in that way, they will have more folk turning away a bit like the Scotsman
I wonder if the penny might finally drop in all those dud Labour heads that the BBC is completely out of control and maybe what they were told during the indy campaign was not true at all. The BBC truly inhabit a “war is peace, Murphy is good” parallel universe.
It would be interesting to do an analysis of the content of the BBC news re Murphy and compare it to Russian state TV when Putin is campaigning or maybe another country like Venezuela or somewhere in Africa. I honestly think the BBC has sunk below those levels.
You can be sure that anyone suggesting going down an “Irish route” is an agent provocateur. I would quite imagine some bombs may start going off when we get further down the line and a fair 55-60% of the population is firmly backing indy, when people are already openly talking of which is the best way to declare indy (UDI? Parliament? Referendum?), when things start to change in little ways as part of a growing shift (more and more sports teams declaring indy like our surfers, queenie getting met with loud “purring noises” while on a walkabout in Scotland)….
You can be sure that such provocations will be the work of the rUKOK security services. It is not called Project Fear for nothing. And if there is one thing the WM establishment hates, it is being played (and beaten) at their own game, i.e. by going through the system. They think the system is THEIRS and the only route for oddballs and miscreants is “alternative” things outside the system. The thought of Scotland sending a majority of SNP and not Red Tory MPs to WM is the stuff of nightmares, no, it is quite simply the Apocalypse!
@Ronnie
Ahhh, I can feel the Smurphs protective warmth already.
He’ll save us from those pesky commies.. Er, sorry Russian capitalists, err oligarchs.. No, errm, foreigners.. That’s it foreigners.. He’ll save us from the foreigners..
No, hang on, thats the guy with the pint and fag.. He’ll save us from the foreigners..
Or is that only folk who are not white, but come from here, or don’t come from here but want to come from here…
I’m confused..
Won’t someone think of the children!
😉
I think Niggle will be safely tucked up in his cot by now – and be careful Graeme Doig, losing one’s head to a full set of teeth can be very traumatic.
@Blair paterson says:1 November, 2014 at 7:57 pm:
“I have to say I agree with every thing. That Nigel says if you do not then you badly underestimate your eneimies …
Nah! There is one thing that is sure in this old World and it is ““Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come”, Sir Victor Hugo 1852.
Seems to me, with the great rise in indy party membership, that the people of Scotland have now really got the big idea. We simply were frustrated as it took some of them a little longer to get the idea.
Could we indeed have a feature, on this or another indy website, something called the BBC Biasometer, which analyses the amount of minutes (positive, negative) given to whatever agenda WM is pushing, as opposed to whaterver WM is against (i.e. anything for the long-term good of Scotland)? Perhaps those who have time to follow the media could help to keep account of all this? It will hopefully go viral, help to turn people against the BBC and, most importantly, could be used in a court case against the BBC for breaking its code of impartiality and, thereby, guilty of mass fraud and embezzlement for misusing tax-payers’ (state) money?
@ Greame Doig, Paula Rose will take your mind of that bad back, just think of her tender fingers running up Your spine n other places.Dont let the Wife see this comment,ah dont want her to think we,re setting you up for a naughty encounter.
@Lesley-Anne
As cringing as it is that Miliband only put 2p in, some of the comments allege that the woman is infact a fraudster. I have seen the organised begging that goes on in Edinburgh along Rose St where the little old woman gets dropped off at 7AM from the back of an old transit. I’m sure it does happen in most cities and it makes a mockery of those who are genuinely in need.
Personally, and it may sound controversial but, I do not feel comfortable with handing over money to strangers (it’s bad enough handing it over to the tax man) so prefer to buy a Big Issue.
If Nigel expects a Glasgow insurrection and barricading of the General Post Office, he’s in for a shock, there is now no such place, it’s new flats & an Italian restorante’. Jamie Oliver widnae be best pleased.
Bizarre BBC R4 10pm news boost for Eggs Murphy, he’s really great and he’s really sorry Scotland too and Eggs says he’s going to unite Labour voters who he loves very much. Also, we now have to call them Labour Scotland and Eggs says they are now the Scottish National Party or the National Scotland Party or and then BBC Scotland ligger came.
UKOK propaganda BBC style at its most mad but how has the stench of that nutter Macternan in there.
Robert Peffers you are a gem you darling boy.
Alistair,
James Caithness suggested earlier that “Nigel” may be a John McTernan troll plant.
Now with you revealing his concerted efforts, it looks as if he is most definitely some kind of Unionist troll.
Hopefully Stu will be aware of what’s going on.
“Nigel”, IF you are a genuine nationalist then can i advise that you get a grip on your emotions and rhetoric before you get a knock on your door – either that or stay off the glue.
If you’re a troll then GTF nobody on here has fallen for your wee ploy and you should be getting a knock on your door real soon – are you really that thick – the internet is monitored, especially sites such as WOS. Enjoy your porridge.
I for one could not countenance harming anyone on these islands to further our cause, I could not see how killing anyone in Birmingham or London would make independence a goal worth achieving in those circumstances, these people are our families our mums, dads, brothers and sisters. The differences between Ireland and Scotland are stark.
You could argue that violence is the only language that the British Establishment understand but we can and will make the break through peaceful means, we have to…
Ronnie
It’s either that or getting a lone of one of your corsets 😉 Not sure what Mrs d would object to most
This has been annoying me for yonks, and I’ll probably appear foolish for even asking, but can someone please explain what a ‘ligger’ is?
To Alex Clark as I am 76 years old I’m afraid most of my fighting will be done from my living room ,but at least I would be fighting as best I can for Scotland
Nigel,
Screw the nut and stop being a bam. The situation here will, and indeed ,is being resolved by the people themselves. There is already an inexorable force moving us towards freedom. Have faith in your fellow Scots to come through.
@ turnbul drier glad to see you recoverd from your confusion,
( wont somone think about the children ) Johann & Murph do,but only their own children,they both have worked tirlessly,in their political careers to eleiviate poverty & as James Cook said to Johann,she made a success of that so did Murph,that success is measured in the ammount of foodbanks we have,they have exceeded in protecting the children of the counrty clap clap & its no the happy clappy am wishing them.
No idea myself Ian. Hope that makes you feel better for asking bud 🙂
Very interesting article by Ivan McKee on Bella Caledonia:
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
The only thing I would take issue with is his differentiations between the Blue and the Red Tories. It is very important to get over this, because I think people have always been conditioned to think in terms of twosomes (Rangers v Celtic, capitalist v communist). If it helps, try to think of the Blue Tories as the USA and the Red Tories as UKOK. The one enviews the power and riches of the other, so is willing to be its poodle.
However, that is my view, and Ivan McKee is a far more astute person than I am, obviously. The article is very good, because it reminds us that among huge and very important sections of the population (the young, Glasgow, Dundee), the idea of independence is actually the majority view. It is not a pipe dream, but a reality towards which we are slowly but surely moving.
I never forget the words of Winnie Ewing. She says that independence is a process, not a single overnight action. This process is unstoppable. We have gone from nothing to 10% to 20% to 30% to 40% to 45%… At the moment it certainly seems to be somewhere around 50% and the demographic and economic situation points to further movement…. Does anyone really think this process would go to 49% and then stop?!? Of course not.
Indy is inevitable and I am so glad the whole campaign is not fractured, we are largely moving as one towards this future, which can only be delayed by Project Fear, but cannot be permanently derailed or destroyed. All we have to do is “educate, agitate, organise”, i.e. continue doing what we have already been doing very successfully. My biggest fear is that indy, when it comes, will actually be a bit of an anti-climax!
Ian, I think it’s a liar pal.
I can’t wait for an indy climax.
I am sorry if I have upset anyone by saying my opinions on here it is plain to me that I do not fit in here so I promise you all that this is my last post I honestly did not mean to offend anyone and if I have I apologise so farewell I wish you all the best
@ Greame Doig nae chancity after Thurs nite the raparoons wrappin aroon me fur tommorow an before any you,s attending George Sq tommorow git yer neb in ah hivna grown Tits its the wraparoons distributing the body fat,but ah look on the bright side of things I,ll be a inch taller.lol
Figger it out Ian love xx
Marcia, Marcia, where for art thou Marcia
Sunday Herald front page
link to twitter.com
– shall be away for the next 2 Saturdays.
I don’t go along with Nigel’s ideas but there may be a grain of truth in what he says. Getting Westminster to pass a vote to allow another referendum won’t be so easy; we just need to look at the the way the Catalans are being treated by the Madrid government.
Going by Nicola Strugeon’s speech at the Cornmarket, she has forseen this problem. Diving in head first isn’t the answer.
As she says, “I believe as strongly as ever that we will be independent. But only the Scottish people can decide it.
However much we might like it to be otherwise, there is no short cut to independence. No back door. No low road.
There is only the high road of democracy.”
@ awe Ian b you seen them awe on Thursday nite remember.
@Graeme/Fred –
Cheers misters.
It does appear to be a derogatory term, but it’s not one I would feel comfortable using. Easier, for me at any rate, to just call them ‘fuds’.
Come to think of it, I’m not sure where the word ‘fud’ comes from, but here’s a picture of one, and it’s on-topic into the bargain:
link to archive.today
Blair Paterson, there is no need to stop posting or reading this site. It is just that there is no need to “fight fire with fire”. The whole rotten WM corrupt establishment is against us, led by the BBC and all newspapers…. and yet the polls are showing Scotland almost totally yellow! I suggest watching that great film “Ghandi” to see how it is done.
Indy is coming, we are moving towards it, it will happen soon enough…. but our enemies will include agent provocateurs who will use the same language about urging people to try and do rash things OUTSIDE the system. They will try to marginalise us, but we will continue our momentum until the point when the marginalised will be…. them!
Such opinions as you expressed are not popular, hence posts not agreeing with them, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and you should not go away. I am sure you have much that is constructive to offer. Yes, the referendum defeat was disappointing, but go and have a wee listen to Gerry Cinnamon’s “Hope over Fear”, it will make you feel much better! It may even be our national anthem one day…
@Paula/Ronnie –
I knew I’d end up looking like a prat over this…I honestly don’t know what it means. Honestly!
@Ian Brotherhood 10.46pm
According to the Urban Dictionary:
ligger. An individual who attends parties, openings, social gatherings and events with the sole intention of obtaining free food and drink – an arch blagger.
I didn’t know what it was either. 🙂
Wish I’d been there on Thursday night; had a meeting after work and couldn’t face a two hour drive after that! Watched it on Independence Live, though. Well done, all of you.
@Ian Brotherhood
You’re not alone.
@Ian Brotherhood
You’re not alone.
I’m gonna try to keep this on topic. (What was the topic again? Oh yes, repetition of ideas.) I posted the bulk of this last weekend so I’m indulging in repetition.
We’re organising a minibus as follows, to get to the ‘Friends of Wings Over Scotland’ get-together in Glasgow on 22nd November at the YES Bar in Drury Street, which is around 5 minutes’ walk from George Square. Here’s the post I did in “Off-Topic” at Wings over Scotland last weekend.
“I had a constructive blether with Bob Costello, the head man of ‘Team YES Bus’ at our stall in the Murraygate today, to collect food donations for the Dundee foodbanks.
Onnyhoo, update on the minidragon from Dundee to the ‘Friends of Wings Over Scotland’ get-together in the YES Bar on 22nd November.
Here are the pertinent details. Assuming we can get another 8 (Eight) names for the minibus, he’ll provide the following…
Minibus leaving Dundee Sensation Science Centre at 4pm.
Drop off at George Square (handy for the Counting House for tea) sometime approaching 6pm.
That lets us have a meal and then head for the YES Bar for 7, or just after.
Pickup at the YES Bar, for the return journey, at 12 midnight (due to 10 hour rest time constraints on his driver).
The cost will be £8 per head, basically as a contribution to the actual cost.
So, can we have another 8 heads from the greater Dundee area, or we’ll have to make our own way. We can also pick up at Perth and so on, en route.
If you want to join us, get over to ‘Off-Topic’ and express your interest.
When will we hear what the SNP plans are for Scottish independence? I’m getting more than a little impatient. I hope a no strings attached referendum is planned. Also, is there a SNP forum? I would like to discuss some things, such as, why one deputy, potential, seems uninterested in pursuing independence further. At least that’s the impression I got.
Ian: Come to think of it, I’m not sure where the word ‘fud’ comes from
Possibly derived from Elmer Fud, a bald headed old man of little brain and massive over-ambition, a Looney Tune cartoon character, arch enemy of Bugs Bunny, relentless in pursuit of shooting the ‘wabbit.’
Invariably he only ends up injuring himself.
@Natasha –
Aha!
So, it’s a young un’s term for a ‘freeloader’?
Sorted.
Cheers.
(BTW, did you get a hold of The Podmore when he briefly resurfaced yesterday, or maybe day before?)
@Stoker & Coompenstein, the Nigels ( britnats ) of this world are here to bring this site into disrepute we saw it before the referendum, no doupt his comments will appear in the British Media when required, like a lot of Scots we have family members in England Wales Nth Ireland,the only people to show violence are the Britnats.
The emperor’s old cloaks, makes me think about a scene from Stanley Kubricks ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ movie.
»»»»»
Evening Ronnie, canny make it to George Square 2mor, have got schizz on.. best wishes to our international neighbours of (hopefully) iCatalonia.
Also, did anyone happen to see RT news earlier today.. New Zealand are to have a vote on removing the Union Jack from their home flag, looks like they’re going for a new design eitherway!
Maybe it’s a sign of the times.
@Blair paterson
I agree with Kenny. I hope you will read this and continue to post. We disagreed because I do not see how resorting to any kind of violence could possibly help our cause.
You were not responsible for what Nigel posted and you and he are entitled to their opinion. I’m entitled to disagree.
Please stick around, conflicting opinions are positive! That is democracy.
good evening GCHQ a wee bitty late this evening, posting will take a wee bit longer now.
As a matter of interest Westminster cannot prevent Scotland having a referendum. It is useful if they co-operate but that is all. The United Nations Charter allows the inalienable right of self determination and the Catalans will have referendum whether Madrid likes it or not.
You would be as well saying that no wife can sue for divorce without her husband’s permission which is absurd.
There are however other ways to achieve independence without referenda and a parliamentary majority on a manifesto commitment to independence has done so in other places.
Limitations on the powers of the Scottish Parliament are essentially voluntary. An election campaign on the manifesto of a legitimate elected parliament taking full sovereignty is arguably entirely proper and possible.
We do not have to ask English permission to determine how we govern ourselves
Ian: can someone please explain what a ‘ligger’ is?
Urban colloqualism for a freeloader; someone who gate crashes functions and parties looking for free food and drink.
Like lots of references derived from a naval tradition I think it began life as a type of outrigger on a sailing ship, later a similar limb in scaffolding, but I stand to be corrected.
It sounds as if a bug you might want to crush under foot. 🙂
Ian honey I am going to gather you to my wings and explain”ligger” and any other word on the 22nd xx
Jamie darling – are you a member?
@ Cactus and you were getting aquainted so well with that nice lady holding the banner with you & she & her mum will be there tommorow,( Paula Rose evert your eyes ) weil catch up soon enough plenty other things in the pipeline cheers .
Hi Ian B.
I consulted the font of all knowledge that is the ‘Oxford English Dictionary’ and found this:
ligger
slang.
One who gatecrashes parties, a ‘free-loader’.
So, OED in agreement with the urban dictionary – which may not presume to hold the coat-tails of the OED.
8=)
“There has been more than 133,000 individually recorded civilian deaths since the 2003 invasion of Iraq due to direct war related violence.”
“There has been tens of thousands of wounded Iraqi civilians since the 2003 invasion due to direct war related violence.”
“The true figure of direct war related Iraqi civilian deaths is said to be far higher than the verified 133,000.”
“The number of individuals killed indirectly, because of the health effects of the destruction of the Iraqi infrastructure and population dislocation, may be twice the number of direct deaths.”
“On-going war-related violence, and the failure to fully reconstruct war-damaged Iraqi infrastructure, continues to harm Iraqi men, women and children.”
link to archive.today
JIM MURPHY – GTF OUT OF SCOTLAND – YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS
Jim Murphy British Neo-Con and Scottish socialist.
link to labourlist.org
Ian Brotherhood
I recall Iain Gray was called Elmer for some time, during his deeply unremarkable ‘leadership’ of the branch, after the cartoon character Elmer Fudd as Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt is shortened to FUD.
heedtracker 10.37pm
Scottish Labour are getting Murphy/Dugdale, whether they want them or not.
And another wee tactic the Murphy people are coming away is,
“We must forget the past, we must get away from this left wing/right wing rhetoric, we are ALL the Labour Family.”
Aye right Jim, we are going to forget everything you have supported in the past and just get on with life.
NO CHANCE PAL! We are not BBC Scotland.
@Cactus
“The emperor’s old cloaks, makes me think about a scene from Stanley Kubricks ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ movie.”
Never seen that movie.
I just like the file name Stu chose for the picture on the article 😉 hehe.
@Ronnie Anderson
What’s happening tomorrow?
Jamie: “When will we hear what the SNP plans are for Scottish independence? I’m getting more than a little impatient. I hope a no strings attached referendum is planned. Also, is there a SNP forum? I would like to discuss some things, such as, why one deputy, potential, seems uninterested in pursuing independence further. At least that’s the impression I got.”
We’ve got to wait and see what happens. A lot has happened since the referendum, and trying to make any concrete plans just now is pointless, because situations can change very quickly – who on the 19th September foresaw the situation we’re in now, just six weeks since the vote, where Nicola has taken over from Alex, pro-indy party membership has soared, The Vow looks to be in tatters, Scottish Labour has completely imploded, and opinion polls are showing all manner of positive things for the future?
Nothing will be decided until after the SNP conference in a couple of weeks at the earliest, and even then, it’s not going to be about independence, or at least not in any obvious manner. It’s going to be a waiting game, and we just need to accept that really. The next referendum will happen when the public wants one or a situation occurs to give an excuse to put forward an emergency bill for one – such as the EU referendum going the way we all expect it to.
If you’re expecting Nicola and her new deputy to announce a date for a second referendum, you’re going to be very disappointed. It won’t happen. It’s all about playing the hand we’ve been dealt for now.
Gillie
All grist to the mill for NS i would hope
Ian honey don’t fret – I will gently introduce you to the concept of free loading xx
Well, I didn’t know either. My vocabulary has been expanded.
@Paula Rose
I think Niggle will be safely tucked up in his cot by now
No he’s not.
Niggle is in the bottom drawer of the cupboard.
Jim is sleeping soundly in the drawer above.
The establishment is snoring happily in the top drawer, comfortable in their ermine blankets.
I’d be a lost soul without those protective arms of ronnie anderson – he has huge wings.
That Jim and Kezia poster deserves to go viral. Funniest thing I’ve seen since the imperial masters video….
Jim Murphy is also head of the “Network”, a Blairite, right wing branch of Scottish Labour’s Westminster MPs.
It’s Scottish Labour’s version of “The Bullingdon Club”
They were meant to have planned/fixed the downfall of Johann Lamont.
Don’t you just love them.
Sorry dolls but my wings link is not acting in a chronological fashion – it might be just my lap-top so apologies in advance if I appear incoherent.
Labour manifesto 1912. Abolish the House of Lords. And people still believe what they say and promise.
Elmer Fudd, for those of you to young to have experienced ‘Glenn Michael’s Cavalcade’.
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
@caz-m
“They were meant to have planned/fixed the downfall of Johann Lamont. “
To be fair, I doubt that would have taken much planning!
‘TOO young’ – excuse the typo, spotted just too late.
Whoever asked about ligging –
Its been around for a while – see link to Arena film: The Art of Ligging (1985):
link to bbc.co.uk
@ Oneirnaut, George Sq 11.am Catalonian Indy Demo.
Oneironaut
“They were meant to have planned/fixed the downfall of Johann Lamont. “
“To be fair, I doubt that would have taken much planning!”
I agree, Lamont is as bright as a 3 watt bulb. But we wanted to keep her in place until AFTER the 2015 GE, it was her so called friends who finally kicked her out early.
And its a good nite from me sees some of yous tommorow.
@ Ian & Co
If you want to look things up
link to en.wiktionary.org
Link to George SQ Glasgow rally tomorrow 11am.
YES Catalonia:
link to facebook.com
It should get busy after lunchtime, a nice sunny autumn day forecast.
Buchanan St multi-storey car park, £3 for the day. (5 mins walk to George SQ.)
@Ian Brotherhood 11.23pm
Hi! I can’t remember exactly when he posted, but he did at last respond in some fashion to my question – said it was absurd and he didn’t engage in debate with people who resorted to personal abuse. I pointed out it was only abuse if it wasn’t true. 🙂 I’m getting a bit bored of him, actually.
@Brian Doonthetoon 11.33pm
In my house the only acceptable dictionary is Chambers. We don’t mention the other place! 🙂
@Jamie 11.15pm
Political parties move quite slowly and the SNP is still getting to grips with what has happened. I feel as impatient as you do, but the best thing to do, actually, is to join your local branch (if you haven’t already) and start taking an active role. I was in the SNP about 14 years ago and stood for local council twice, and then my life took a different path. Since re-joining earlier this month, I have ended up volunteering to be branch secretary and am now trying to organise a social event to get people together and keep the momentum going. Any political party is only as good as its members and to a certain extent it’s up to you to get involved and get active.
@Nigel
I don’t have any money, but what i do have is a particular set of skills that make people like me a nightmare for people like you
So stop it, or i will find you and i will
Seen the movie have you?
Because I do support our Police…..
link to ukcophumour.co.uk
@Ian Brotherhood
Ligger – Hanger on, not a new word, kind of like uninvited associate (not friend) of the band/celeb/someone who’s been invited or they think is ‘cool’ who drinks all the beer, eats the biscuits, whatever.
Fud – Stupid person – unfortunately also ladies genitalia.
a2 honey – I’ve never stroked a fud.
QUOTES FROM THE DARK SIDE:
“You can hide here.” he says, gesturing around his parliamentary office. “My predecessor, a Tory, a decent man, got himself into trouble, in the loneliness of the place, through alcohol. He was a good person, but it can be a very lonely place.”
Jim Murphy MP – Shadow Defence Secretary.
(source: Total Politics)
Very wise Paula, bound to lead to trouble.
@Valerie
Speaking of police-related humour, I love this one:
link to team-ninja.com
@Ian Brotherhood
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt is a marketing term connected to the manipulation of public perception negatively – see link to en.wikipedia.org
What’s needed is a court case against non-payment of the BBC tax licence. We’ll crowd-fund the defence of the refusnik and get every bit of dirty linen out on display. Do you think such an action would be brought by the powers that be? No chance, but if it could be provoked….? Hell will pay.
@Jamie says:
“When will we hear what the SNP plans are for Scottish independence? I’m getting more than a little impatient. I hope a no strings attached referendum is planned.”
Unfortunately, I think we will be waiting a few years yet, unless we see huge public demand due to changed circumstances.
I think Sturgeon is realistic about it.
We have to wait and see how the devolution deal plays out.
Most likely it will be minimal, and then last minute promises won’t work next time.
Unfortunately oil prices have also came down, and production isn’t going to pick up until all the recent investment comes online in 2016.
On the other hand, the longer we wait, the more chance we have of success due to demographics.
The most hardcore NO voters are to be blunt, dying out.
And newspaper sales continue to fall every year.
The result was a huge missed opportunity, but when you think about it, it could have been worse. If YES had stayed on the 25-30% support of a few years ago, it would have been over. But 45% was achieved in the face of a huge propaganda blitz, outright lies and desperate last minute promises.
That has kept the door open, and shows that a win is very possible next time around.
One thing the referendum has achieved is that it has forced the ‘Labour’ chattering class, those comfortably off lower middle class professionals who love to visit Jinty’s and other such watering holes in the West End and elsewhere in Scotland, to finally accept that their PC/Right On/’Socialist’ pretensions are nothing more than a stinking pile of hypocrisy.
I’m sure that such a realisation must have been somewhat traumatic for the poor dears, but, as they say, the self-denial, like any other vomited poison, is better out than in, in the long term.
For round two, at least some of them should be shamed into fighting against independence on a more honest ticket, namely their opposition to anything which proposes genuinely more egalitarian wealth distribution and hence a potential reduction in their own.
Red Tory and Proud.
This may not have anything to do with Scottish politics,
but i think we all have a responsibility to do what we can,
to help prevent the brutal and barbaric treatment of women.
Please help save Asia Bibi’s life and sign the petition.
link to archive.today
@Chic McGregor That is very true. It’s something I’ve been trying to articulate myself.
Like some of the Celtic supporters who suddenly realise they believe in the union – and before anyone jumps down my throat – I’ve met a few of them.
It’s also like some socialists who realise they are not what they thought they were.
It has forced people to realise who they actually are and what they really believe and for some people that has come as a shock
@nigel says:
1 November, 2014 at 7:30 pm
Lets be clear about this folks!There will NEVER be another referendum on independence.
The only way ANY progress will happen is if Scotland decides to grow a backbone and go down the Irish route of freedom.
General Post Office, Glasgow, anyone??
Nigel, My Grandfather fought in 1916, but he was also elected as a Sinn Féin MP. In his opinion what really mattered was getting a cross-party Alliance to win the vast majority of MP’s in 1918, and then refusing to go to Westminster and setting up Dail Éireann in Dublin. Who needs a referendum?
Given that there are not 24.000 armed Unionists in Scotland and an army backing them up, analogies with the General Post Office route are facile.
it seems to me that increasing your focus on which constituency to work in in April (or before) is a much better way to use your energy.
The only reasonable distraction from this is (maybe) pressuring the YES coalition parties to form an alliance and release the energy of the YES alliance again and so win even more seats. won.
@Jamie
What Doug Daniel says. All three prospective deputies are in favour of Independence, and represent between them, all that’s needed to keep working towards it. As well as reading their stuff in the Sunday Herald (and Scotsman) and Lallands, I was at a hustings for them in Dalry, and they are what they seem. They also get on together!
For me Constance represents “us”, me and from the sound of it you, impatient for the next referendum, wanting it to happen tomorrow. If she doesn’t get elected they should make a special post for her as she’s the closest to us, and can reach out too on a non-SNP basis. I think that’s why she doesn’t want to be DFM – her job would be busy enough as it is.
Keith Brown would be the best DFM, as indeed the SNP are the Government, and need to continue to show that they are the best party to govern Scotland.
Hosie is great, Westminster, great humour, and he would be best as head of the Westminster group. Perhaps they need two deputies, one for Holyrood and one for Westminster. It would make sense, especially with – 59 – MPs in 2015, possibly including one or two Greens and SSP and non-aligned.
I think all three represent the three different routes to Independence. One reactive to e.g. Tory Gov and out of EU. One in reaching out to the 55%. And the other to going for broke with more powers, more powers more powers until we’re virtually Independent anyway, with just one small step more for Scotkind!
I remember “ligger / ligging” being in common use in the 70s. It was prevalent in the music business when the record companies were throwing money around in their search for the next Led Zeppelin / Pink Floyd. Back then there were some full time “liggers” to whom “ligging” was a lifestyle. Good work if you could get it.
I see that “nigel” has been a busy boy. Same comment as here posted on Wee Ginger Dug, Scot goes pop, Bateman and Lallans all at the same time!
Oh, yes, a “Senate”. If you need any more proof as to how well a senate does, or doesn’t, work you need only look across the pond. In fact, any civilization will go into decline starting about 100 years after a “Senate” is formed.
By the way, I have an absolute ripping avatar to use here, but cannot seem to find how to post it. Help? Anybody?
@yesindyref2
Couldn’t agree more. All three have strengths to play to and experience to call on. The good news for the electorate is that whoever gets the post its a safe pair of hands.
@ Nigel – “General Post Office, Glasgow, anyone??”
No, in a word. How is MI5 these days?
@yesindyref2 – I would have loved for there to be two two deputies. We can change, develop, rewrite how politics is done and how we are represented.
In general – it is a waiting game now, but building from the ground up and preparing for what comes next is the key. Making indy parties as strong and as vibrant and active as possible, right across Scotland. It’s already happening of course, with the meetings and discussions still blossoming with new members and lots of determination.
This is the kind of energy that will swing the country – not violence, not brute force. It has to be democratic for us to gain our sovereignty. Remember the story of the old woman and the sun an the wind. We want to take Scotland’s coat off and we won’t do it anti-democratically.
Nigel@ 7.33
Tit
way to go banana heels!
BBC News 5.45 to 5.54. We get to see Lang being a langer, a bishop fast asleep behind a speaker, Foulkes being a Guy, and Curtice with the sun behind his wild hair looking like a huge, errr, halo or something.
wannabee scot says
“By the way, I have an absolute ripping avatar to use here, but cannot seem to find how to post it. Help? Anybody?”
Register on link to en.gravatar.com
and load your avitar on there and it’ll appear on your next post.
Thank you J. King for the advice on avatars!
Onwards says
“Unfortunately oil prices have also came down,”
Whats unfortunate about that?
it just means less production while the price is low and preserves more oil for when we ARE independent, 🙂
I hope the price slumps even lower while its in the control of Westminster,
STUFF EM!
It couldn’t have happened to a nicer crowd.
@ Ian Brotherhood
Bgrowing up in the Highlands on the 50’s ‘Fud’ was the first word young bucks learned for female genitalia. As such it was considered incredibly rude and only used in hushed tones far from adult ears… how the world has chamged!
Anyone in the Inverness, Black Isle, Easter Ross areas at a loose end this afternoon with absolutely nothing to do?
Why not come along to Morrison’s in Alness for a wee cavalcade around Easter Ross starting at 14:00 sharp. Just to remind the good burgers of Alness, Invergordon, Milton and Tain that the ‘Yes’ movement is still around and in good heart.
Tamper with the House of Lords and you begin to take the feet from under the monarchy then where would the English establishment be?
The toughers get great pensions as well, while devaluing the public pension. Most of them pockets £millions from their contacts. That’s why they are there. Most of these crooks should be in jail. HoC has no power whatever,they can just delay a Bill. They are anti justice, self interested greedy criminals, most of them should be in jail. Just an illegal talking shop. Like their neighbours a total out of touch disgrace. Once Scotland is Independent, Scotland will be rid of them. Thry have acted against Scotland’s interest for years. Evil toads.
@Macart / @Suzanne
Yes, any of the three would be good as deputy leader. I do like the idea of 2 deputies right enough, it would make the SNP the one democratic party that recognises (and “accepts”) the divide between Holyrood and Westminster.
As for Alex, I’d like to see him as a wild arrow. Then he can say what he wants and get plenty of media attention “Do you really think you can just declare UDI?”. The SNP then can say “it’s not SNP policy but we’re a democratic party and any MP has a right to their opinion”. Then the SNP can support Devo-Max with 66% of Scotland behind them, and Salmond can get the chance to say “Well, 52% … 55% … 58% … 60% support Independence”.
Ken500 says
“HoC has no power whatever,they can just delay a Bill. ”
So how did they manage to take away the Scottish parliaments right to award offshore fracking licences?
Just catching up with Nigel statement and feel the need to speak up.
Sorry but I agree with him, there wont be an independent Scotland – ever. And to accuse him of being drunk, smoking crack etc is so typical of wings readers when you dont agree with someone’s opinion.
Im not sure about an armed struggle but the only way you’ll see independence is by taking it and we all know as you demonstrated neatly on the 18th September and on these posts that there is no backbone in Scots.
Dont misunderstand, I wanted it and campaigned hard for it and Im just as bemused why we lost.
Its over.
Milliband says he,ll close the HoL.
Popularity ratings.
Cameron – 14
Clegg – 54
Milliband – 55
@ John King
Sorry John, I think you’ll find that it was the HoL that removed Scotlands rights re renewables.
Popularity contest in a 3 Twat race Milliband comes last
why not include Farage
Why not include Salmond/Sturgeon/Harvie
Oh how remiss of me the latter have the highest popularity rating of UK politicians,so Millibands left at the starting
Block-heid.
Paula Rose – yes I am a member.
To the replies – my concern is that if they wait too long they can lose the momentum, I mean even if they declare the intention of another referendum it would be late 2016 before it could take place for logistical reasons. A lot can change between now and then and I just hope that there will be some clues soon. I think it is unlikely the UK will leave the EU and I really don’t think we should put all our Jim Murphy eggs into the EU basket. I mean how long can a political party remain so popular? Based on past examples 10 years is the going rate and the SNP have now been in government a bit. I just hope they know what they are doing.
I was impressed with Angela Constance’s introduction before I voted her as my number 1. I was disappointed with Keith Browns introduction. , I did not read his other speeches but his introduction gave the impression we are just all to move on and forget about independence. There’s no chance in hell I am doing that.
I think the SNP should strongly consider running the Westminster election on the promise of independence immediately after winning the election with a similar time frame to that, of a yes vote in the referendum, 2 years I think it was to become fully independent.
Lower world Oil prices should mean lower petrol and related product prices in the economy. Petrol prices should come down. Lower Gas prices in Europe should mean lower household prices for energy coming through. Wholesale Gas prices have fallen in Europe.
The reason that Oil production has fallen in tbe North Sea is because of the increase in Oil tax 2011 – 11% (£2Billion a year) by Alexander/Osbourne. Now up to 90% The Oil Companies stop drilling new bore holes and put new production on hold. They have have turned their attention to other parts of the world where production costs are lower. Thry are still investing, but just marking time. There has been no significant lay offs of any kind. Scotland bring a lot of revenue into the UK from workdwide Oil production.
Scotland is still raising more taxes (pro rata) than the rest of the UK, even with lower Oil tax revenues coming in. Wind out produced Nuclear for the first time recently. The Renewables industry invested in is beginning to pay off with increased revenues being raised.
Scotland is still raising enough revenues to cover expenditure and would be better off
Independence. Spending differently than Westminster economic policies. Scotland raises more revenues (oro rata) than the rest of the UK and spends less (pro rata). Scotland could eradicate poverty with different policies than those imposed by Westminster.
@ John King Morning John were the Neeps all present & correct yesterday Irene said you were out counting your Tumshie’s theifs in Lochgely gie them the Twase John.
@indyref2
Agreed, it would be interesting to see if they could make such a concept of a dual deputy post work. It has all sorts of visual and subliminal advantages which could work to the SNPs favour. In reality it may be more difficult and confusing than it looks on the surface, but it wouldn’t exactly be a long term construct. 😉
As for Alex? If he still has the appetite, then absolutley, an Alex Salmond with the breaks off would put the fear of God into the opposition parties at WM. Especially if that Alex Salmond is part of a contingent of twenty or thirty SNP MPs and held the balance of power in the commons. Oh the merry fun he would have. 😀
Again, though, as a concept you can see where sending down a hefty contingent of pro indy representation would be of more benefit to protecting the Scottish electorate’s interests. The chamber would be far more willing to play nice with a Scottish contingent with teeth than one who has historically capitulated with any and all regressive bills dreamt up by the chamber.
The old Labour trope of being the only option against the tories is long since exposed. They never carried enough threat to hold Tory policies at bay, indeed they helped implement half of the worst. If people want an effective buffer against austerity, then they need to send down a contingent of MPs which carry a credible political threat and the thought of Alex Salmond at the head of a large SNP group? Well I can’t think of anything more scary as far as WM is concerned. 🙂
Even though Companies have franking licences. They still need permission from local authorities – councils. The councils can refuse on the grounds of public health, health and safety. The Companies could appeal to the Scottish gov if they refuse, their could be an Inquiry. If the Reporter refuses permission on behalf of the Scottish Gov they can’t frack.
It is just like any other local authority application. Local Planning rules first, than national.
The Companues are buying rights on speculation. They still have to follow planning rules procedure. They can’t just arrive and start drilling anywhere without permission.
Housing/super markets etc buy up land on speculation (relatively cheap value) compared to with planning permission. They then apply for planning permission. This can be refused. They can hold on to or sell the land at a later date for profit.
The firms might have the licences to frack (speculative) but the permission could be refused by local authorities/government for various reasons. It could be possible the Companies could sue the Gov for their licence money back, depending on the contract (not likely for various reasons) Or hold on to it or sell it off in the future.
The trouble starts if local authorities/government gives permission against locals wishes. In some areas (empty) it might be permissible just like any other development/enterprise. With the usual conditions to return the area to normal after any commercial activity. Just like coal.
Carbon capture and storage projects would be benfiical for Scotland/Britain but Westminster, Hulne refused permission in Longannet in Fife. That would have created jobs etc. Coal is half the price of (imported) Gas. Gas goes on the balance of payment deficit, increasing the debt. Thatcher cancelled a North Sea pipe line and wasted £Billions of Gas. The Gas was burnt off.
Thatcher secretly took all the North Sea revenues and spent the revenues in London S/E.
Electric cars are five times cheaper to run. They would be a good investment, especially in the cities, and would save public money.
Salmond and Murphy on the Marr show shortly.
Sorry to be scattergun. Labour supporters are scrabbling around on the forums, trying desperately to get their message across that a vote for the SNP is wasted or lets the Tories in. I think it’s important for us to keep on the MSM forums, and contradict them quetly but firmly every time.
The SNP are the only party that will push for Smith to be delivered, and if Smith is weak and watery, for more powers up to Devo-Max to be delivered, whereas Scottish Labour will forget the whole thing and just vote with Ed & Co.
Relentless pressure, thats the answer.
The other areas of wealth creation in Scotland.
Seabed exploration rich in minerals ( crown estate property )
there’s Gold in them there Hills . no serious attempt has been made on the mining of Gold, if Nth Ireland ( private companys )can do it we should be looking at public owned enterprises at the start up.Wind/Wave power,hydro. No need for Fracking anywhere in Scotland for 100 +.
Geography not a requirment as a Bbc presenter Marr show Murph visited a ! 100 Citys, FFS why did,nt he include the the highways n byways,went from Towns now Citys what about the Streets n Cul-de-sacs,where Slab are just now.
Oh please let Murphy be leader of Scottish Labour. Nicola must be watching this in tears of joy at how easy it will be. Real Madrid v East Stirlingshire. ( no disrespect to the Shire)
Westminster has not paid off any debt for the last five years. The deficit is the same (pro rata) £110Billion. The debt has risen to £1.6Billion. Little growth which would have helped pay off the deficit. Paying off the deficit/debt is the most important thing. Otherwise they are throwing good money after bad.
When the ConDems came to government £600Billon was being raised in taxes. Borrowing was £120Billion a year. £720Billion. They have cut taxes, especially wealthy, and not paid of the deficit/debt. They are borrowing £110Billion a year. The deficit is the same (pro rata) £110Billion a year. They are borrowing £110Billion a year. The debt has risen to £1.6Billion (from £1.4Billion when they came to power).
Total taxes raised in UK (UK Gov official website) £490Billion (12/13) £490Billion. (fallen from £600Billion – when they can to power) The deficit is the same (pro rata) £110Billion of borrowing a year. Total (borrowing and) sounding in the UK £600Billion – a fall of £100Billion a year.
The Deficit/debt not been pay off. They have cut taxes, especially for the wealthiest (them) and not paid off the deficit. They have not cut spending on the private sector (them), so the debt/deficit is not being paid off.
Scotland raises £59Billion+ in taxes (11/12) higher (pro rata) and higher than before (£57Billion+) (Scottish official website) Scotland raises enough to cover all expenses and in surplus. By following different policies from Westminster Scotland coukd eradicate poverty and be in surplus. No Trident, tax on ‘loss leading’ drink etc. Scotland coukd be healthier and wealthier.
Scotland has to pay £4Billion in debt repayment to the Exchequer for money it does not borrow or spend. Westminster does not pay off the deficit with this money but spends it. They spend (pro rata) £10Billion more than Scotland on the private sector (projects etc) – £110Billion borrowed.
The average income in Scotland is £21K the average income in the rest of the UK is £25K. Kept artificially high by the higher borrowing = higher spending. This gives the rest of the UK higher
(artificial) disposable income makes them better off. Not equal but unjust and unfair, no parity.
Scotland would be better off Independent.
Unionist politician free by 2016
Vote SNP/Alliance 7/5/15
Independent by 2020. Time is running out.
Murphy (on AM show) still complaining about the democratic right of the Scots that didn’t agree with him to come out and disagree with him when he stood on a box in public and shouted about his love of Westminster. Get over it man!
OT and a question for Bugger and Auld A – what is happening in France? Just watched RT and it seems that there are riots across the country.
I saw Nantes, Rheims and Toulouse and previous pictures from Paris. Something to do with the death of an environmental activist and the whole thing looked wild.
Hope you guys are well out of the way.
On the subject of oil and gas, is it possible that most of you have forgotten about climate change? Even if fracking were 100% safe, it would be a bad, bad idea due to the carbon emissions is would bring. It is NOT good if energy prices go down (in the current situation anyway; it would be different if it was all renewables), it is NOT good if petrol prices go down. Low petrol prices reduce the motivation to develop feasible alternatives. Low energy prices encourage wasteful use of energy and reduce the motivation for energy saving measures.
I do wish Scotland didn’t even have that oil. If we didn’t have it, they would have let us go, I think. However, we do have it, and we should consider the most responsible way of dealing with it in an independent future. I spoke the other day to an engineer who works in plastic manufacturing, and he confirmed what I had suspected: oil is just as valuable in materials production. You don’t need to burn it and release all that carbon into the atmosphere.
The ComDems have not protect NHS/Education. Another broken promise from a broken Government.
@ ronnie Anderson et al.
Good work at the Demo holding up the Wings banner on the broadcaster, a Star. Thanks brilliant Glasgow, for the humour as well, from those who could not be there. : – )
@yesindyref2: Which forums are those? I’m happy to nip over and open my big mouth.
Designer shoes for public officials are not appropriate when there are food banks. Ostentatious. Minnie Mouse
@ronnie
Yes, that was funny, 100 cities! Perhaps Marr was taking the proverbial?
yesindyref2 says:
2 November, 2014 at 9:10 am
Sorry to be scattergun. Labour supporters are scrabbling around on the forums, trying desperately to get their message across that a vote for the SNP is wasted or lets the Tories in. I think it’s important for us to keep on the MSM forums, and contradict them quetly but firmly every time.
_____________________________
Not for me. I have no intentions of helping to keep these rags alive and that’s exactly what you’re doing when participate on their forums.
But there in sits the problem. We want to get our message across and quite a substantial number of people we want to reach read those papers/forums. Catch 22. I suppose you could very weakly argue that its for the greater good etc. But i have very good reason to question the effectiveness of participating on those forums.
I have also lost count of how many times i was papped from
The Hootsmin’s site, when i used to frequent their comments
section, and each time it was for no good reason when the
piece of crap i was proving a point against was coming out
with all sorts of religious and/or child abuse filth etc and
getting to remain on-site.
FFS, what kind of a shitty rag papps people for saying SEVCO.
The same sort of rag which ends up having to lay-off 35/45 of
its pathetic excuses for journalists. GIRFUThem.
Don’t get me wrong, as i said, there may be a conversion or two
to be gained from those forums but i’m afraid i can’t square it
with my own conscience.
btw, They also massively rig the thumbs up/down facility to make people like you, who have just posted a fact, look like your talking mince and your point of view is wrong.
Nah, no thanks mate, i’ll let their rancid papers die.
😉
Alex Salmond needs to go to Westminster because of Westminster fraud and the No vote. To hold the crooks to account and get the best deal for Scotland, until Independence. He has no choice.
Westminster fraud, secrecy and lies.
john King
The House of Lords got away with it by amending an existing Bill. They can change laws that way. Sneakily and by the back door.
So no one should be under the illusion that the HofLs is limited in power, they make massive changes to Bills that can change a law from what people thought was happening to final law they don’t recognise.
Is Millipede trying to think outside the box here?
Just say that Lord Smith actually decides that Scotland should have more powers and this goes against the generous offerings that labour have already made (ie bugger all new powers), to mollify the masses (in england).
If the House of Lords is abolished in the next parliament, then anything that Lord Smyffe has decreed becomes null and void and can be discarded as irrelevant. This could be just another attempt to save the unsavable labour party from drowning south of the border as well as north Britannia(which is happening whether he likes it or not) and shows that he has written Scotland off as a lost cause, cleaned house by evicting Murphy, the thorn in his side and is scrabbling to save english labour as it continues to crumble south of the border.
It is good for the economy if prices go down, especially with austerity. Until there enough feasible alternatives, vulnerable people could die. It would be even better pay off the deficit/debt.
@Annette
Well, there’s the Guardian – CiF, There’s a few from here post there, Muttley, cat, sneeky sometimes, others. It’s fairly relaxed to post there, good one to get toughened up in. Tougher is Telegraph. Don’t know about other London-based ones, but Scotsman is full of extreme unionists, Record is OK I think, no idea about Sun. Mail could be fun for the masochistic! Then there’s the spectator back in London, no idea, or Express which I think from Disqus profiles I see is also full of extremist unionists.
Times could be valuable, as some good articles come from there sometimes. I think the main target is the paper itself, and lurkers, no chance of “converting” the posters in any forum. They can be useful though to score off, and to continue a long point.
During the Indyref campaign, AS was challenged on SG projections of oil price at $110pb, which had been the average for the previous 10 years. One could argue that a dwindling vital resource was bound to increase in value as time went on, if you accept normal economic arguments about supply and demand.
The Treasury OBR predicted oil price would drop to around $80pb. Now it has. The Saudi’s dropped their price and are planning to continue for 2 years thus forcing oil prices down world wide. The Chinese are buying up tanker loads of cheap oil.
The theory is that USA leaned on the Saudis to drop the oil price to bankrupt the Russian economy.
Looks like our dear partners in Westminster knew this.
So they seem happy to devalue the Scottish economy if it helps their global ambitions. Pooling and sharing.
I agree with Annette, cheap oil is not healthy. It is used to manufacture just about everything Western economies depend on, including food (fertilisers, persticides etc).Burining fossil fuels raises temperature.
Richard Branson needs to get his space mobile built soon to go off and find another planet for the wealthy to live on.
Its THE VOW that’s either going to save Eggs Murphy and Labour in Scotland or end them for a long time, which is so ridiculously ironic it could only come from Crash Gordon.
At the very least the BBC UKOK media, red tories eggs Murphy and the BBC are going to have to work really hard to get back control of their Scotland region and they can only do it by devomax home rule. Should be interesting watching the UKOK fraudsters at Pacific Quay desperately trying shyst Scotland with Labour’s devo nano fraud.
Irony is the word of the day at rancid old Graun with their red Tory assumption that Murphy is a shoe in and Ed Miliband needs eggs Murphy if England wants to keep control of Scotland for another few years but Ed hates Eggs. Its probably why Lamont jacked like she did. She’s not as daft as she looks. To the victors the spoils. lol
Did anybody else hear Murphy say on the Andrew Marr show when speaking about the referendum result, that the people of Scotland, “voted for us to be the UK govt.” US???? WTF? Did he mean the Tories and Lab together? Confused.com
I found Jim Murphy leaving a bag of food in George Square a CRASS political move, knowing that it would be picked up by the MSM. Why can’t he do it privately, I would have more respect for him. Though I would really have to be forcing myself.
@ 2 November, 2914 at 9.43 am
* UK deficit is £1.6trillion. Increased from £1.4trillion when the ConDem’s came to Gov.
* UK Gov debt/deficit is £1.6Trillion up from £1.4Trillion when ConDems came to Gov.
Hope Murphy isn’t voted in. Will he be appointed. Fraud, secrecy and lies. The Labour/Unionist way. Murphy the fall guy incapable North and South of the border. Can’t be sacked can be voted out. Never have so many been promoted above their capabilities.
Snapshot reaction from my wife watching Murphy on Andrew Marr.
‘He is quite nauseating and a creep’
Now it should be noted that she hasn’t seen Murphy before, in fact she isn’t that interested in politics and wouldn’t know or name any MP’s in any party
Certainly brought a smile to my face is morning 😀
* UK deficit is £1.6trillion. Increased from £1.4trillion when the ConDem’s came to Gov.
Thats the UKOK debt of £1.6 tr not the UKOK deficit. UKOK rule Britannia propaganda focuses entirely on deficit and the UKOK debt never gets mentioned because why would you, you’re a state propaganda machine boosting England, annihilating Scotland.
They cant even get close to lowering deficit bowering so all they can do is privatise public sectors like university education, turning a whole sector of teamGB into another debt mountain but its off their books. Students will always repay their debts though. Otherwise they won’t get mortgages, new cars on hock etc. Tasty.
link to economicshelp.org
Wonder how the oil price drop is ruining the Norwegian economy? thanks again proud Scot buts.
@Ken500
The most worrying thing is the amount of private debt in the UK. As Adair Turner, ex FSA chief, remarked recently, using private debt to grow an economy when that was what caused the financial crisis in the first place is a very bad idea.
It may get the Tories re-elected right enough but the aftermath won’t be nice. Labour’s policy on growing private debt is no different as we have seen.
Where the national debt:GDP is around 80%, depending on what you include in the figure, inflating house price assets using help-to-buy etc means we have a private debt:GDP in excess of 200%.
Salaries are falling away and the govt are pushing us as individuals to take on more debt to expand the money supply. This simply means less disposable income to stimulate an already moribund economy. As debt, energy, food prices increase, And people default the merrygoround cranks up again.
It’s a a win-win for the banks and a lose-lose for individuals who also happen to be the tax payers that will foot the bill for the next crunch.
Both labour and Tory parties are wilfully allowing banks to strip away our wealth. The national debt can be managed alright by near zero interest rates and hidden inflation.
It’s a game and we aren’t privvy to the rules but we have to play just the same.
Remember, in a recession, wealth isn’t destroyed, it’s is simply transferred.
Sanctioning Russia brings down the EU economy. They need Russian Gas (Germany etc) US at it again causing havoc, supported by Westminster. Cutting off their face to spite themselves.
Merkel caused the Ukraine crisis. She refused the Ukraine a loan. Austerity failure. Now an Oligarth (who took £Billions from the Ukraine economy) is in a position of power. The lunatics are running the asylum. The Ukraine needs Russian Gas. Now loans from the US are being used by Ukraine to pay for Russian Gas. Thousand of people have died and been displaced, needlessly.
test
Murphy sounded so sincere in suggesting the other candidates get coverage…..his team are already in place with the BBC and the media to ensure that only HE gets any coverage.
I noted the “poor Glesga wean” line getting slipped in again.
“I’m just like you…apart from the wages and expenses”
Interviewers have been briefed to aviod Iraq War / Nuclear weapons or Tony Blair. Poor and Jobs are OK because that is the SNP’s fault.
@ ScottieDog
The Treasury included prostitution and street drug sales to boost GDP in their latest figures. All that coke, laundering Mexican drug cartel money, and S&M in The City beginning to seem normal!
See Kaiser Report
link to rt.com
Andrew Marr , `100 cities in 100 days by Murphy.
Scotland has seven cities in total ,Andrew Marr talks crazy.
Aberdeen.
Dundee.
Edinburgh.
Glasgow.
Inverness.
Perth.
Stirling.
When it comes to convincing the public on who to vote for come May, it all comes down to who can prove most effective at holding Westminster to its pledges? Who can hold the unionist parties to account and who can provide the most effective buffer against austerity measures WM is imposing on the Scottish electorate?
Its all about knowing what Westminster fears and we know that now in spades. Scottish independence. The contingent we send down must provide credible political threat for Westminster to play nice with their neighbours. Labour will not provide that threat. Hell they’re all set to actively participate in Westminster’s agenda.
If people want protection there is only one choice for representation in May.
@ Capella
Ah but Osborne can now raise the tax on fuel – its all good and green. So the 10 pence it has dropped in price in the last few weeks can still help to bring engerlands deficit down.
Low oil prices have different effects depending where you are in the food chain. It is not in Saudi’s longer term interest to have them this low because they have a big welfare state ( as well as a kleptocracy ). But sanctioned Iran is also dependent on oil ( as is Russia ), and the Saudis hate them. ( And then theres Venezuela too, which Uncle Sam despises ). And western countries export lots of expensive toys – and guns – to all those middle eastern places which are paid for by oil.
We also have the fracking industry making the US energy independent so long as the oil price is up. And then theres an economic slowdown in China and QE in Japan ( both of which import lots of Middle Eastern oil ).
In Scotland the oil sector is very important to our economy. If the price gets too low the investment will dry up. Its probably financially no big deal for engerland, but it is very important for Scotland.
If the ConDems had kept the same or similar tax regime as when they came to power or increased revenues by enforcing HMRC tax Laws in the City of London etc. The likelihood is that the Defict would have been paid off and the debt reduced without selling of assets. Selling off assets is a bad move and can increase the debt liability.
Westminster would have been in a much better financial position, with less borrowing. If people with above average earning paid £20 a week tax more. The deficit would have been paid of and the debt reduces and NHS/Education would have been protected. HMRC collecting the tax evaded illegally through the City of London by (Foreign) multinationals (damaging British business) but making vast profits there would be no need for austerity. Tax evaders donate funds to UK political parties and their associates. Westminster fraud, secrecy and lies.
Re this morning’s Marr Show what a contrast between the interviews with Eck and that with the Survivor Of The Great Kirkcaldy Egg Massacre.
Eck answered every question without the slightest hint of evasion while Murphy just came over as a shallow lightweight evasive insincere opportunist creep.
@Kenny (10.31 pm):
The ‘truthmeter’ (« Le véritomètre »), an old skit by the late Thierry Le Luron, one of France best comics and impersonator. Even if you don’t understand French, worth a gander. The machine honks each time one lies. The guy on the right (dressed like a surgeon) is supposed to be a journalist, the guy on the left (Thierry Le Luron) mocks the then first secretary of the French communist party, Georges Marchais. The video is not of prime quality, though:
link to youtube.com
About senate: bicameral systems are just a waste of time. At the end, one of the chambers has to have a higher precedence than the other, otherwise laws could be blocked forever in an endless ping-pong. Conclusion: the lesser chamber serves almost no purpose, except spending more money to pay the expenses of the senators and all the necessary paraphernalia.
@Dorothy Devine: thanks to worry for us, it’s nothing short of adorable.
In fact, BtP could tell you more than I. The riots are caused by the death of a young guy who was protesting against the building of a dam somewhere near Toulouse (not far from where Bugger lives). Apparently he was hit on the back by a kind of gas grenade launched by the police and died almost instantly. Nasty. There has been much debate about it.
The said dam is not meant to produce electricity, but to act as a reservoir for agricultural irrigation. Apparently, the artificial lake would flood a large natural protected area, wherefore the wrath of the ecologists.
Often in France the rioting people are just thugs that join pacific protests just to tussle and brawl with the police, and have nothing to do with the cause being defended.
That brings us back to the subject of violence.
link to youtube.com
Well I don’t know about you lot but coming from Dundee a fud was another name for a lady’s naughty patrs
I thought the price of oil went down because ISIS is selling its oil at a cut down price from the captured Refineries .
The Banks are having to downsize (competition rules) but carry more capital. Cutting the capital ratio to lending caused the crisis in the first place. Leverage fell from 25% to 13%, it led to the collapse. Banks are becoming more stable but are not making much profits from the situation. Not declared profits for years. Governments/Institutions still hold major shares in the banking sector from which they should eventually profit.
The wealth of wealthiest has increased 15% a year. 5 people in Britain own more than 1/5 (20%) of the people. The gap between rich and the poorer increases.
The Oil industry in Scotland is a bonus (often by Westminster) If Scotland managed it’s own affairs it could be wealthy even without Oil, by diversifying, it exports more and imports less than the rest of the UK. It produces and sells stuff and is relatively self sufficient, in surplus.
@Stoker
Long-term getting rid of the MSM may happen, but I think things are going to happen far too quickly for that to be a factor. The next 2 years are critical I think, and we need to get into that MSM and shake them up as much as we can, to get the max pro-indy MPs elected, then the same for Holyrood – and then there’s the next referendum 🙂
Ken%00 and all we need is to be able to convince those ill informed of that. We need a newspaper a daily newspaper, not overtly pro Indie but at the very least neutral, other wise we will still be fighting the same old scare stories.
@ronnie anderson says:2 November, 2014 at 9:25 am:
“The other areas of wealth creation in Scotland.
Seabed exploration rich in minerals (crown estate property)”
Ever heard of,“Methane Hydrates”, Ronnie, or perhaps you know it as, “Fire Ice”?
Have a read at those two links.\|/ down there.
link to energypost.eu
link to dailymail.co.uk
Here Scot Finlayson better make it eight, the sign coming into Dunfermline says it is the City of Dunfermline, okay I think it is stretching the claim a bit far but it was a capital in it’s day.
Did anyone see the report on Sky this morning from the Kola Peninsula, Russia. Without a trace of irony they were telling the story of two women, both Sami one who holds a position in the Sami Parliament who have been harassed by the Russian authorities, because, wait for it, they want control of their own resource. No red face then, Britain.
We can’t really ignore Brechin City…
8=)
Scott Finlayson
The oil prices went down because the US want to punish Russia over Ukraine.
First they involved the EU to create sanctions.
Then when oil demand went down they ‘persuaded’ the Saudis not to drop production as they would usually do, but keep it up, this caused prices to fall.
@davidb
Good point. I was highlighting that the Westminster Govt makes decisions which suit SE England regardless of how much poverty it causes in the rest of the UK. The outrageous selling off of Scottish fishing waters to get an EU rebate for the Treasury is one example that still costs Scotland dear.
Is that really what we in Scotland vote for?
Who has time to watch BBC!
The Max Keiser report that deals with naughty City bankers is here:
link to rt.com
@Ken500: Where did you get all those figures from? They would be great, especially if made into a graph, for door-to-door campaigning.
@Scot Finlayson: Not true – Dunblane is a city! Officially so, because of the cathedral. We tend to call it “the village” just to highlight the absurdity.
@yesindyref2: Thanks. Looks like I’ve been to most of these places already. Many intellectually challenged people there. On one, when I mentioned the Green party, someone ranted about “those English Greens” and when I said I wasn’t English, I was German, they came up with this amazing accusation hat I was planning for the English Greens to wreck the UK so it could be taken over by the Germans. Someone else brought up a scandal involving German Green Daniel Cohn-Bendit. That was in the early eighties. Looks like no Green has been involved in any scandal since then, otherwise I’m sure this guy would have brought it up. Sanity seemed scarce in those places…
On a side note: An English friend of mine has warned that whenever we get independence, we need to be prepared for a mass exodus – of progressive people leaving England for Scotland.
@ Robert Peffers
I’ve archived that Daily mail fire Ice link here:
link to archive.today
Forgot to say: The most bizarre type of poster on those forums is the “We hate you and we will never let you leave us” brigade. Just how do their brains work?
What a terrible bullying interviewer Gordon Brewer is. He is interviewing the Three Candidates for the SNP Deputy Leader and not letting one finish an answer. He is making out that they are Torys. Do you know what! All get up and walk out! Please don’t let this sneering Labourite do his dirty deeds!!
Gobsmacked at Gordon Brewer’s performance, illustrates perfectly the disconnect between the re energised Scottish electorate and the establishment – we are quite simply speaking a different language
Will be interesting to see a detailed breakdown of the results behind Jim Murphy’s election to Scottish branch office president.
Exact number of votes by party member, MP/MSP/MEP, and union members.
I trust the meeja will be all over this wanting transparency and all that …
I think that Mr Brewer will now be telling the BBC don’t line me up against three nats ever again!
Whilst I understand Flower of Scotland’s sentiment, by the end of the same programme Gordon was looking as though he had wished he hadn’t started!
But it is high time political interviewers on tv were dropping the old style Newsnight approach, it’s been done to death, time for something new.
Ooft. Where did all the sock puppets spring from ?
BTW I think we should keep challenging Jim Murphy on his 100 town claims, let him name them if he can.
@ Capella
Monty Python sums it up quite succinctly.
link to youtube.com
Which brings us round to Labour politicians.
Ed Miliband now at all time low in Times poll, even less liked that Nick Clegg and probably Jim Murphy.
Murphy has resigned from the Shadow cabinet.
He has given up a “nothing” job that was an obvious demotion and slap down in order to focus on Scotland…what sacrafice!!
Edward: Snapshot reaction from my wife watching Murphy on Andrew Marr. ‘He is quite nauseating and a creep’
A perceptive woman. She might enjoy: ‘Jim Murphy MP’ – grousebeater.wordpress
@ Capella
If you take the City GDP out of London and the SE England’s GDP the residual figure would look very sick.
Take away our subsidies to their infrastructure projects.
Then take away the drug money, sex trade, high price homes bought as a way to launder off shore funds and what is left?
They would have to take in each other’s laundry to get a functioning economy.
The SE makes heehaw.
Whats Eggs Murphy really got? Vote Labour or the Tories win. He’s already being credited with Scottish investment like the new Forth Road Bridge. BBC/Daily Heil etc have six months and Bliar MacFatboy’s Project Fear shock and awe, The Vow buried until after their EU referendum farce. UKOK nice and sleazy.
Thanks again proud Scot buts.
@Wp says:2 November, 2014 at 9:42 am:
“Oh please let Murphy be leader of Scottish Labour. Nicola must be watching this in tears of joy at how easy it will be. Real Madrid v East Stirlingshire. ( no disrespect to the Shire)”
You couldn’t make this stuff up but London Labour in Scotland, (LLIS) has just made it up?
They are shown in the polls to be leaking membership like, “Pete the Piddling Pup”, leaks canine pee. link to allpoetry.com
While all the Scottish independence parties are all gaining members faster than Murphy gains Westminster expenses. This is due to Scots becoming more independence minded, politically more left wing, more anti-Trident and more for remaining in the EU.
So what does LLIS do?
They choose to back an expenses grabbing, Westminster based candidate for leader of LLIS who is a well known politically right wing Blairite, supporter of such as Israel, a USA style Neo-liberalism supporter and a Naysayer who has just finished a Scottish tour of 100 towns & cities to keep Scotland’s parliament firmly under the heel of the de facto Parliament of the country of England. Now perhaps I am being politically naive but in such circumstance would not the politically correct thing be to put up a leader candidate from among the MSPs at Holyrood who espouses the ideals of the LLIS members who are deserting the LLIS’ sinking ship?
I’m rather unwell and stuck at home just now and my main contact with other people is passers by my gate. I spoke to a well known |Labourite walking his dog yesterday evening. He was all smiles and said, “Jim Murphy will syne show wee Sturgeon up when he becomes Scottish Labour’s leader”. I replied with, “How’s he going to manage that when he’s in Westminster and Sturgeon is in Holyrood”? I then said, “Aren’t you forgetting your claim to be a socialist, ex-trade unionist and left winger? So why are you supporting a Westminster, right-wing Blairite, neo-liberal candidate”? His face fell and the big cheesy vanished as he started walking away saying over his shoulder, “He jist wull be the best candidate, is aw”.
He must have gone home the long way round for he didn’t pass by my gate again that evening.
Brewster managed about a dozen scoffs at a reduction in corporation tax, saying it will hit the poor and won’t get rid of food banks, but not once did he explain in what way it would do that. This leaves independence supporters wondering if he is trotting out a UK-Ok line. He failed to mention Westminster’s plans to reduce the tax or its reluctance to get tax from international companies.
Nor did he point up that the SNP’s policy is to tax ALL companies simultaneously, none given privilege status.
There is a genuine debate about the benefits of reducing corporation tax – companies love it, of course, but it has its downside unless there is a balance in tax collection.
@Brian Powell
Dropping oil price to hit Russia,is that a fact or just speculation?
What is a fact is that ISIS is selling oil very cheap to a lot of countries on the black market.
Black market oil is what funds ISIS by an estimated 1 million dollars a day and in turn they buy weapons from probably us again on the black market.
I think this is the main reason for the drop in oil prices.
Brewer also explained that Lamont was hopeless and Murphy’s the man to save the Labour party. So what was Lamont when she brilliantly defeated the evil and cruel separatist Scottish virus?
If you take any of these job for lifers UKOK reprobates sitting in BBC tv and radio seriously…
At the very least, all their UKOK colleagues at the Hootsman got fired. Mind you locally, far right newspapers like the Press and Journal have really had a lot of money spent on them. Happily pissing all over Scotland and Scottish democracy but they still have jobs.
Just watched the Andrew Marr show on iPlayer and picked up a prime example of half truth and distortion. He said, “The SNP membership has jumped to 80,000.” Which is true but unless you know what the size of the membership was before it has no context. To get the the scale of the jump in membership he should have said “The SNP membership has more than trebled to 80,000”
Red Tory “Ed Miliband” would never get rid of the House of lords, his own party would not stand for it. The very idea Ed would denie his followers the right to join the elite band of (legal benefit cheats) would finish him and his career in politics.
This is no more than a cheap stunt which is about all he has left in his tank, the “red tories” are nothing more than piggybackers which involves jumping on any tory/libdem policy which they think will appeal to the middle England vote.
Labour are deadmen walking, they just won’t admit it.
IMHO Murphy’s run for leader of the Labour Party (Scottish branch office) has been planned and initiated a long time ago, with J Mctiernan as the back seat planner and navigator with the consent and help of MILLBANK, MSM & EBC.
Jim is a Quizling in the true sense of the word and will sell his grand mother for personal advancement and reward, a true mercenary.
Listening to G Brewer today “interviewing” the SNP’s candidates for deputy first minister was demeaning and certainly did’nt do his reputation any good. EBC (scotland) is a joke and urgently needs to be brought to the heel of Scotland,s parliament. LONDINIUM drives the Labour Party, MSM, & EBC and by this scam tries to keep hold of Scotland as a colony.
@Brian Powell:
The oil prices went down because the US want to punish Russia over Ukraine.
Not that I heard of. The current drop is due to a general slowdown in world’s economy, especially China, and the current increase of USA’s domestic production (fracking!) which renders them almost self-sufficient (their importations are plummeting).
As a result, there is a worldwide overproduction which leads to the price slump.
I’m not sure basing the prosperity of a national economy over the production of fossile fuels is that ethically apt.
@Ken500 says: 2 November, 2014 at 10:11 am:
“It is good for the economy if prices go down, especially with austerity. Until there enough feasible alternatives, vulnerable people could die. It would be even better pay off the deficit/debt.”
Not, “vulnerable people could die”,Ken500, It is, “Vulnerable people have already died and many more will follow” , as there are even more cuts on the way.
AuldA
The oil prices went down because the Saudis kept up the levels of production when demand fell, so the prices dropped. This was from pressure by the US.
Normally Saudis would reduce production to maintain prices level.
@ BtP liked the Galaxy Song. Branson is sure to find a suitable planet amongst all those thousands of millions.
@Scot Finlayson you need to browse through alternative news providers to get a picture of what’s going on. Certainly can’t rely on the BBC. With a range of different perspectives you can get a better idea. Obviously each one has its own angle.
I like RT (Russia Today, has new broadcasting channel for UK)
link to rt.com
Al Jazeera – Bahrain link to aljazeera.com
PressTV – Iran link to presstv.ir
teleSUR – Latin America link to telesurtv.net
Middle East Monitor – link to middleeastmonitor.com
etc etc.
Jim Mitchell – As I’ve said before it was no more than 99 towns as he came to Hamilton twice. Firstly Burnbank, which is part of Hamilton then weeks later the town centre itself.
Surprised no reaction on here to Marr’s pathetic dog-with-a-bone question about bad behaviour from us loathsome Nats, bringing up JK Rowling once more. Listen, my Yes stickered car was vandalised but I don’t bang on about it. This is the first time I’ve mentioned it anywhere in fact. I don’t see any acknowledgement of the Yes supporters being attacked in George Square despite the recent arrests, or mention about the pensioner attacked last year in Edinburgh whilst campaigning, or the SNP MSP grabbed by the throat in a Kirkcaldy pub. Alex Salmond put him in his place by mentioning the road rage incident he suffered. Almost being run off the road being a damn sight more newsworthy that “an egg being placed on someone’s back”.
My last comment is in moderation, probably too many links. So here is is without the links which can be easily Googled.
Capella says:
@ BtP liked the Galaxy Song. Branson is sure to find a suitable planet amongst all those thousands of millions.
@Scot Finlayson you need to browse through alternative news providers to get a picture of what’s going on. Certainly can’t rely on the BBC. With a range of different perspectives you can get a better idea. Obviously each one has its own angle.
I like RT (Russia Today, has new broadcasting channel for UK)
Al Jazeera – Bahrain
PressTV – Iran
teleSUR – Latin America
Middle East Monitor
etc etc.
Boorach says
“Sorry John, I think you’ll find that it was the HoL”
Sorry, it was HOL I meant. :0
[…] To his credit, Ed Miliband seems to have noticed that his party is crumbling beneath his feet. The rot is spreading down from Scotland, and Labour’s vote in Rochester & Strood – a seat it held, with slightly different boundaries, as recently as 2010 – has plummeted to just 16% despite voters in the constituency naming the NHS (usually Labour’s strongest field) as their top priority. […]
@ Robert Peffers, get well soon, but we’ll done for putting the Murphy supporters gas at a peep. Think that mutt of his will be getting more exercise!
On FB, most shared extract from the papers in a senior Labour insider calling Murphy cold and calculating, and if he is elected, they are all f***ked!
Don’t be fooled by the spin that I got
I’m still, I’m still Jimmy frae the block
Used to have a little, now I have a lot
No matter what I say, I know where I’m going (House of Lords!)
Auld A ,thanks for the information I came in halfway through and really just caught the police action against rioters in the various cities – those French police don’t hold back .
I am always concerned for the safety and health of Wingers!I want them all to be in tip-top condition and ready to fight Scotland’s corner in whatever way possible.
@ Valerie
All students (and their parents)in Scotland should be reminded of Jim Murphy’s role in campaigning to maintain Student Tuition fees.
From Hansard:
Date tabled: 12.06.1996
Primary sponsor: Livingstone, Ken
That this House condemns the intolerant and dictatorial behaviour of the President of the National Union of Students, Mr Jim Murphy, who has unconstitutionally suspended NUS Vice President, Clive Lewis, because he took part, in a personal capacity, in an open debate at Queen Mary and Westfield College on the issues raised by the Campaign for Free Education; further notes that along with President Elect, Douglas Trainer, both men have warned NUS Executive member, Rose Woods, that if she attends the Scottish launch of the Campaign for Free Education she too will be suspended from the NUS Executive; reminds Mr Murphy and Mr Trainer that freedom of speech is a right in the United Kingdom, that they have no power to overturn the results of elections that went against their preferred candidates and that, whilst these methods are a common practice in dictatorships around the world, they are not acceptable behaviour from someone such as Mr Murphy who is putting himself forward as suitable for election to the House of Commons.
http://www.parliament.uk/…/991
@terry says: 2 November, 2014 at 10:20 am:
“Did anybody else hear Murphy say on the Andrew Marr show when speaking about the referendum result, that the people of Scotland, “voted for us to be the UK govt.” US???? WTF? Did he mean the Tories and Lab together? Confused.com
Have you not twigged onto it yet, Terry? That, “US”, is exactly what it always has been. Since ever, “The Kingdom of The Angles”, named itself, “Angleland”, (England). Not too long after the Romans left South Britain. Thus began, “The Establishment”, that eventually settled upon, “The Palace of Westminster”, in London. It is dedicated to England becoming the dominant, “Master Race”, in the entire British Archipelago. First it mastered the many smaller southern kingdoms into what is now England. Next it annexed the Principality of Wales, (Statute of Rhuddlan, 1284, and The Kingdom of Ireland, (Crown of Ireland Act, 1542). The Crown, (but not the parliament), had also acquired Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man. It had also always tried, but failed to annex, The Kingdom of Scotland.
Then, in 1603, the King of Scots, James VI, inherited the three country Kingdom of England but he failed to form a United Kingdom. This due to Scotland lot being legally under the law of, “Divine Right of Kings. Then, when they had their English Kingdom’s, “Glorious Revolution”, in 1688, they deposed their monarch of England, (who was still the independent Scotland’s monarch for Scotland was still an independent kingdom), thus began the Jacobite Uprisings that made, “A Treaty of Union”, imperative for the three country Kingdom of England. They had also, in 1688, removed from their imported monarchy, (King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange), the royal veto over the Westminster Parliament of their three country Kingdom of England. Making their Kingdom, “A Constitutional Monarchy”.
By underhanded means and military might, they forced Scotland to sign up to a bipartite United Kingdom and thus began, “”The Westminster Establishment”. This Establishment is all the Westminster Unionist political parties, The extended Royal Family, The English Aristocracy, The Church of England Lords, The English Law Lords, The UK Civil Service, UK Armed Forces, Bank of England and The London Financial Sector. It also includes the State Broadcasters and, (via the financial sector), the Mainstream Media.
That, Terry, is the, “US”, that is, “The Westminster Establishment”. It has always had only one main aim since the Anglo Saxons were invited to come to South Britain with the promise of free land. They are now closer to that aim as never before. Have they not now made for themselves a Westminster that is no longer a bipartite United Kingdom but instead a quadratic union of four countries with Westminster now the, (unelected as such), de facto Parliament of England devolving English powers to the three now subservient devolved administrations and remember, , “Powers devolved are powers retained and thus can be removed at the will of the devolver.”
Vote for independence or Scotland becomes no more.
@Scotland only has seven cities. They are, in alphabetical order: –
Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, Perth, Stirling.
Having either or both a Cathedral and/or a University does NOT give a town the right to be termed a city. It relies only upon being granted that honour by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth.
Seems that, “Not a lot of people know that”.
They’ll never abolish the lords…That’s their wee retirement home…
Robert dear – Brechin was, is and will remain a city regardless of what you or the queen think.
@Robert, Paula:
Speaking of queen, my dictionary claims that ‘quean’ is a Scottish synonym of ‘lass’ irrespective of any disparaging meaning. Can someone confirm this?
Thanks!
Robert, Paula – the ‘if you’ve got a cathedral, you’re a city’ thing only applies in England and Wales. It simply doesn’t work in Scotland, otherwise Motherwell, Kirkwall and Millport would be cities.
We are taking on the British Establishment, not just Westminster. This means the House of Lords; the City of London; the Royal family and the aristocracy; Landowning billionaires etc. etc.
They will not relinquish their hold without us prising their cold dead hands from the levers of power. We will achieve this by democratic means…voting, civic action, and civil disobedience if necessary. Not by allowing ourselves to be incited into violence and insurrection.
Back in the ’70s black ops were instituted by the British State…bogus organisations such as ‘the Tartan Army’; ‘the Border Clan’ etc. were created and instigated by British agents. The only one that actually committed stupid criminal acts was the A.P.G. a disparate group of ex-cons supposedly led by a naïve man Matt Lygate. Matt spent 13 years in jail for a crime he did not commit…robbing a bank for ‘funds’.
We must never allow these dark forces to manipulate naïve and/or angry elements amongst us ever again.
Meanwhile, to what purpose is Murph the Scurf all about?
Raised in a drawer, South African bred, neo-con member of the Henry Jackson (wasn’t he the invisible man?) group, Blair acolyte, copper-bottomed fraud and self seeking charlatan.
His mission to obfuscate, delay and ultimately derail aspirations for Scotland’s Independence. To lead a non-existant ‘party’ in Scotland and utilise all propaganda at his disposal from the msm. Chances: actually very strong, if his Labour opposition is leaned on heavily enough by London. With non stop coverage for the next 6-7 months on his amazing ”re-organisation’ and ‘refocussing’ of the moribund ‘party’ the msm plus Prof Curtice will be able to demonstrate a rise in the returning Labour ( and Tory/lib Tactical) voters.
Make no mistake, Murphy is a Trojan horse. From day one, his irn bru/egg schtick was a bullshit preliminary to the current stage of the plan…which is to get him in a prominent place to derail the Indy train. He is the public face of the Brit black ops and will be rewarded handsomely by his owners if he achieves his duty of undermining the YES ALLIANCE victory in 2015.
@ AuldA – quean, queyn, quine are all scots words for a young lass and different to queen.
Lochside, I think you’re right. The establishment doesn’t give up without a fight. The fact that we nearly got there in September scared the living daylights out of them.
They’re devious, and they play a long game. The Labour party was deliberately infiltrated in the 1980s and 1990s by people groomed to take power and turn it into a barely-distinguishable clone of the Tories. These people were trained in the right rhetoric to use to retain the unthinking support of the traditional Labour voters in the heartlands, while supporting things like tuition fees and Trident. Murphy is one of them.
Having almost complete control of the media is an important factor. If only the preferred line is printed in the papers and presented on TV, what actually happened doesn’t really matter. For example Murphy’s unconvincing egging, and other “bullying” tactics by Yes supporters.
Who’s next for intiltration? Who has been infiltrated already?
Infiltration, even.
Brechin must be a city cos we never got a visit from the twiglet on his tour of a hundred towns.
@Brian:
The oil prices went down because the Saudis kept up the levels of production when demand fell, so the prices dropped. This was from pressure by the US.
Could be, but from what I read it’s the opposite. The Saudis maintain and even raise their production deliberately to make the price drop, and therefore compete with the USA domestic production. If the oil price is low, fracking is not competitive anymore.
Besides, I read that the exchange rate between $ and € is very favorable to the $, thereby limiting the consumption in the Euro zone.
Source (in French): link to elwatan.com
—
@Dorothy Devine:
The French police is somewhat unflinching, yes. Especially the CRS, which are, more or less, the anti-riot branch of the police. Remember ‘Soleyant green’?
I can’t speak for BtP, but I feel fine and ready to support our cause by whatever pacific means!
Natheless, once again, thanks so much for caring!
@Paula:
Thanks so much xx
@ figures are on UK Gov Official Website. Google (or whatever) search ‘statistics’. Three documents will appear. Access the middle one. Go through the pages until the one with th tables of total taxes in the UK. – £490Billion. (13/14?)
Figures on Scottish Gov Official Website. – Google (or whatever) Search GERS. A document comes up. Go through the pages – A table comes up total taxes raised £59Billion (12/13? (plus there are other £Billion of taxes that go to Westminster Exchequer through London HQ’s for commercial activity in Scotland. (evaded taxes etc.)
The UK Gov Says it can’t collect separate figures for Scotland for all revenues going through the City of London.HQ’s. They could because they do figures for different regions etc. Secrecy and lies.
Deficit figures are reported on websites/Press etc. Westminster borrowing is documented. The borrow is estimated to be £110Billion. – approx £10Billion a month. Realised from figures the rest of the UK was borrowing (pro rata) £10Billion a month they must been spending on the private sector – projects etc. It became clear from confirmation when Rev Stu published the plan for projects being undertaken by Westminster which were all in the rest of the UK. Pro rata it was £10billion. The article in the back archives on Wings site. Can’t link.
The deficit is not being paid off nor the debt because the debt is reported rising. Selling off assets would increase the debt. Selling off the Royal Mail was to take the Pension Pot and take the money. (Topical) Now the Pension payments have to come from Westminster funding. This becomes a UK Gov liability. To balance the books. An asset turned into a liability. Like increasing a mortgage and spending the money. The mortgage increases and becomes a higher liability (amount on the statement) More is owed.
Scotland could raise £10Billion with different economic policies to Westminster. Extra borrowing spent on the rest of the UK – (Pro rata) £10Billion. = A difference of £20Billion a year! No fuel and energy parity despite Scotlnd bring surplus in fuel and energy and being nearer the source.
Cities in Scotland: The main Cities in Scotland are Royal Burghs. Goes back to medieval times. Medieval Scottish Kings up to Alexander 111, who died at Knghorn riding back to his French 2nd wife,Yolanda? Aberdeen, Stirling, Perth, Edinburgh, Inverness were awarded Royal status by the Scottish King. The King and the Entourage spent their time going from town to town collecting their tithe (a tax a tenth) in food, merchandise and kind. The King admnistrated justice and settled disputes, courtesy of the Courts. Disputes were settled when the Court visited. The King stayed in the castles and travelled around with an entourage and possessions.
The Towns (which became Cities) were establish beside rivers for water. (essential) and cross roads – markets places, where people came to barter and exchange goods and services. The Churches were important – for State control – good obedient people who obeyed the rules. Monasteries were important and hives of industry. They kept bees for honey (sweetener – no sugar), wine, sheep for wool and food. They made clothes from the wool and cultivated the grounds for gardens and food. The castles were situated on high grounds for defences and security of the town’s people. The population would have been quite small.
Oldest Royal Burghs, mebbes Tain & Ru’glen. Glasgow was not a Royal Burgh until much later, being a Burgh of Regality under the control of the bishops/archbishops. Edinburgh would not qualify as a city at all if the criteria of having a mediaeval cathedral is used. St Giles was not a cathedral, Edinburgh being part of the St Andrews diocese.
Glesga of course was a city long before Elizabeth was ever thought of. 🙂
And has four cathedrals intae the bargain! 🙂
Stoker rightly denounces those who supported the attack on Iraq as having blood on their hands. But more recently, in August last year, the British people managed to stop the warmongers by making their MPs vote against attacking Syria. Scotland’s Labour MPs tipped the balance against war.
Alex Salmond however said he would not have ruled out war against Syria. There is no Syrian blood on the SNP’s hands only because the House of Commons, most unusually, did something sensible. And the SNP backed NATO’s imperialist wars against Afghanistan and Libya – so does have blood on its hands.
Now you want to take the Scottish Labour MPs out of the place where they could make a difference to Britain’s foreign policy. Do you want to open the door to more wars?