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The definition of redundancy

Posted on December 06, 2014 by

Ladies and gentlemen, it gives us great pleasure today to present to you the most unnecessary words ever printed in the history of Scottish political journalism.

“Even Nicola Sturgeon agrees that Scots should vote Labour to make sure David Cameron’s Conservatives do not win the 2015 General Election, Margaret Curran will say today.

The Shadow Scottish Secretary will make the claim in a speech to a Labour summit in Perth when she is also due to attack the SNP.”

On current polling, it won’t be long before Ms Curran emulates her script.

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    1. 06 12 14 13:02

      The definition of redundancy | FreeScotland

    2. 06 12 14 13:41

      The definition of redundancy - Speymouth

    234 to “The definition of redundancy”

    1. farrochie says:

      Just read the Herald spotted this absurd piece of reporting, my tweet:

      James Hamilton @heraldscotland tries to fool readers “Even @NicolaSturgeon agrees Scots should vote Labour…” [says M Curran] #indyref

    2. Barry Blust says:

      This is total bullshite yes!

    3. Susan says:

      Curran helped Cameron become the Prime minister who saved the Union. Now she wants us to help her get rid of him. It just does not make sense, the Labour Party is all over the place.

    4. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Stair Heid and fully functioning brain is a definition of redundancy.

      Cue a Ry Cooder track and a mental image of tumbleweed rolling through her brain cavity.

      Jeez, and I believe Cathy Jamieson is some sort of shadow Treasury spokesman for Labour.

      Loony Tunes.

      Thant’s all Folks.

    5. CameronB Brodie says:

      What is it with these Fabians? 🙂

    6. Wee Jonny says:

      Curran is a dick.

    7. K1 says:

      She should be done for Crimes Against Our Sanity.

      Another laugh out loud batshit crazy Labour rant against the SNP masquerading as a speech. As LA said on another thread…’Come in boat 69, your time’s up’. 🙂

    8. desimond says:

      ‘Does Not Compute’ must replay over and over in the Labour drone clones heads

    9. kevin murray says:

      Aye right then!……id rather vote for the monster raving…..wait a minute that is the labour party isn’t it?
      in voting with my head in may and my vote will go to the only party which isn’t a branch office and is only interested in Scotland and its people!

    10. Hazel Lewry says:

      Major *Facedesk* event. The comments section is also a playground for some dim-witted Curranphiles – scary or what?

    11. galamcennalath says:

      Two possibilities:

      1) Curran is deploying sophisticated manipulation techniques on a target audience who have a proven record of being gullible.

      2) Curran is clueless.

      Frankly, I’m not sure which!

    12. stonefree says:

      Bugger (the Panda) says:
      6 December, 2014 at 12:14 pm
      Jeez, and I believe Cathy Jamieson is some sort of shadow Treasury spokesman for Labour.
      Loony Tunes.
      That’s all Folks.

      Curran’s protege, less loud and stupid….Well marginally less loud

    13. Stoker says:

      Quote from article above:
      “when she is also due to attack the SNP.”

      And that folks just about sums up the red tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s.

      Septic Meg, more demented than a dog with rabies.

    14. A.N.Surgent says:

      Unbelievable, where is the quote that this is based on. Different day same old shite.

    15. Clydebuilt says:

      Bugger (the Panda) says:
      6 December, 2014 at 12:14 pm

      “Stair Heid and fully functioning brain is a definition of redundancy.”

      Stair Heid and Fully Functioning Brain …..don’t belong in the same paragraph never mind sentence

      “Jeez, and I believe Cathy Jamieson is some sort of shadow Treasury spokesman for Labour.”

      Aye BUT she isn’t allowed to do any Arithmetic.

    16. Clydebuilt says:

      A lesson learnt by the Unionists is that they (think they) can say whatever they want …..and get away with it.

    17. heedtracker says:

      ATL classic trolling from Herald UKOK freak show. Also one more reason for not buying The National. No way am I paying any money to this bunch. But politics is all about compromise, except UKOK unionism is one of the greatest frauds of the modern age, perpetrated by big Westminster red Tory hitters like Curran and Cardham and so on..

    18. Katherine says:

      Of course what Nicola actually said was ‘voting Labour to keep the Tories out is the biggest con trick in Scottish politics”
      Politicians like Curran should stop lying to the electorate.

    19. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Wee Ed Miliband is even less popular than Cameron in scotland according to polling. Has nobody told these ‘scottish’ Labour idiots that their London branch office leader is an even bigger joke than they are?

      They’ll find out soon enough. 🙂

    20. Famous15 says:

      As my late sainted mother used to say in her quiet Highland accent about such persons as Magrit Curran:

      “She is more to be pitied than laughed at as she is after all one of the Lord’s creations”

    21. Murray McCallum says:

      It’s great that OneNation but patriotic Scottish British Labour keep on relentlessly attacking the SNP (for being the SNP) and their supporters (for voting SNP).

      Heaven forbid they stop and wonder why all their own voters are shifting.

    22. ShredderIsAlive says:

      “Voting Labour to keep the Tories out is the biggest con-trick in Scottish politics.” – Nicola Sturgeon.

      Yeah, sure Nicola believes that Labour is the best option for keeping the Tories out. In fact I’ll bet she’ll tell the people of England to vote UKIP next as well.

      Quality journalism from The Herald once again.

    23. Grizzle McPuss says:

      “Pastry…p-p-pastry…I need pastry” shouts Margaret.

      Those devious & dastardly SNP folks have driven Margaret to the limit, resulting in complete meltdown.

      Tune in next week when Jim Murphy attempts to convince the Scottish electorate that the SNP are secretly plotting to steal the name Essex for a rebranding exercise of Scotland.

    24. tartanfever says:

      I’m taking direct action.

      Every time that no-hope Settle writes some trash in The Herald (usually a weekly event) I’m not going to buy a weeks worth of The National or Sunday Herald.

      Take that Newsquest.

    25. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      I am looking forward to Nicola’s response to that comment in the Sunday Herald.

      What an odious creature that Magrit is.
      No lie is too great when it comes to Slab.

    26. IAB says:

      This is obviously from World 2 and this is an erroneous crossover

    27. Rigmac7 says:

      Any lawyers in the house? Would this story/speech by ol’ withered lips be something that could be up for a libel action? Gloves off anyone?

    28. A.N.Surgent says:

      What a loathsome collection of individuals that lead the unionist parties today. murphy, curran , davidson, milliband , osborne, cameron, alexander are just a few, theres fkn loads of them.

    29. fred blogger says:

      a political broadcast by the out of touch, out of office, raving loony party.

    30. handclapping says:

      Nope, I give up.

      What is redundant? Is it:-
      the position of Secretary of State for Scotland and or his shadow?
      Magrit Curran?
      a Labour summit?
      being told she will attack the SNP?
      the piece?
      the “journalist” who adapted it from a Press Release?
      All of the above?

    31. r baxter says:

      this is proof that all candidates for public office should be tested for mental and moral ability by a class room of p5 students.

    32. caz-m says:

      Margaret Curran:

      “Vote Labour and keep the Tories out.”

      Confused voter:

      “But Margaret we voted for Labour the last time and we STILL got the Tories.

    33. Croompenstein says:

      The old vote labour to keep the tories out well we don’t care any more Mags you voted for it, it’s the price of union suck it up.

      I wonder how many times she will say labour need to listen we are a listening party well listen to this Mags..Fuck off

    34. galamcennalath says:

      The Red Tories are a bigger problem in Scotland than the Blue Tories. And that’s nothing new – who was to blame most? Thatcher who had no mandate or the Feeble Fifty Labour chocolate teapots who did have a mandate to fight, but didn’t? Under which recent WM government did inequality widen most? Blair’s Labour. Curran, whether she admits it or not, represents everything which is bad about WM.

      We virtually banished the Blue variety decades ago. May next year – we can banish the Red species too!

    35. Stoker says:

      Septic Meg is to say:
      “Even Nicola Sturgeon agrees that Scots should vote Labour to make sure David Cameron’s Conservatives do not win the 2015 General Election”

      First of all, Meg, you’re a liar and the people of Scotland are sick to the back teeth of you London lackeys treating us as if we are a bunch of thick inbreds.

      Secondly, be sure and explain to the gullible faithful what happened when Scotland wasted votes on Labour in 1951, 1959, 1970, 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992 and in 2010.

      You’ll see just how thick we are come May 2015.

      We will wipeout all you LibLab Tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s.

    36. No no no...Yes says:

      Margaret Curran is almost beyond words, but not quite. She should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask herself, “What have become?” She is a terrible woman on the same level as Thatcher. Like Thatcher, she has done nothing good for Scotland. She even supports the Tories on key anti-Scottish votes, and wants to be harder on the poor if Labour win GE2015!

      Curran has lost the plot in every sense, especially stabbing her best friend in the heart. Her legacy? What has she done for the poor in her constituency-Nothing!
      I hope the SNP have a good candidate as this woman deserves to lose her seat more than most of the others.

      Nicola is in Aberdeen tomorrow on the final gig of her successful tour. I am sure she will fully explain her position on how to vote next year! The MSM will of course quote her verbatim. Nicola will probably also give an update on membership figures.

      Labour, tick tock…

    37. fred blogger says:

      actually what we want is all tories out of office, and to shake up WM @ it’s very roots.
      we want an end to boom and bust, an end to poverty, an end to food banks, austerity, no one rich, no one poor.
      if danmark and other nordic countries can do it so can we.
      http://uk.businessinsider.com/denmark-mcdonalds-pays-20-hourly-wages-2014-10
      we want an entirely new and embedded/enshrined social democratic system.

    38. jimnarlene says:

      Will, Nicola’s rebuttal be given a front page spread, in any paper? I don’t think so.

    39. Nana Smith says:

      Fair scunnered by this scurrilous Curren.

      Bad enough looking at her but then she opens her gob…geez

    40. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @jimnarlene

      Maybe the Sunday Herald or The National on Monday.

    41. manandboy says:

      I don’t know who Magrit’s speechwriter is but if I was John McTernan I’d break all his fingers.
      Unless of course it was John himself who came up with this example of skewed thinking.
      Either way, we can look forward to more of the same from the Red Tory Wonky Magic Roundabout.

      In any event, Labour voters these days are like alcoholics who have been given the best advice available, which is to stop drinking, but who don’t heed because they know better – and keep on drinking. They’ll vote Labour till they die.
      But some Parties have followers like that – genetically incapable of making political decisions, as Johann Lamont so eloquently put it – obviously thinking of her own members.

      But then they do have a problem in that they hate the SNP but can’t tell you why, they hate the Tories thanks to Magrit Thatcher and they probably hate the other parties because, well jist because.

    42. yesindyref2 says:

      According to the Scotsman, what Curran actually said was: “Here’s something even Nicola Sturgeon can agree with me on. The best choice for Scotland is a Labour government next year”

      It’s that Settle at it. (or should the space be after the “a” in “at it”?)

    43. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A couple of quotes from a later article in today’s Herald:

      “And today the biggest threat of continued Tory rule in Scotland comes from the SNP.

      “No matter how much Nicola Sturgeon tries to sound Labour, she can never be Labour.

      “Because she refuses to support our policies and no matter how much she says she’ll never prop up a Tory government, that’s exactly what she could end up doing next year.”

      and

      An SNP spokesman said: “This is increasingly desperate stuff by Labour who – after being tied to Tories for the past two years during the referendum campaign – are now clearly panicking at polling showing that they are set to lose seats to the SNP.

      “The people of Scotland will not be fooled; the fact is that the SNP will never let the Tories into power. As Tory cuts continue to hit the poorest hardest and the gap between rich and poor widens, Labour need to explain why they blocked the devolution of welfare in the Smith Commission just last week.

      “Next May, Scots have the opportunity to elect a strong team of SNP MPs to make sure Scotland’s voice is heard at Westminster – and to ensure Scotland gets the powers it needs to move away from failed Westminster austerity and deliver real social justice.”

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/curran-nicola-sturgeon-wants-to-sound-labour-but-snp-could-prop-up-tory-g.1417873253

    44. Doug Daniel says:

      That’s just a flat out lie. I know they’re partial to that kind of thing, but there’s no way you can interpret “vote SNP to stop the Tories because Labour won’t do it” as “vote Labour”.

    45. msean says:

      Arttack the SNP? Labour might be needing them soon,of course,some scottish MPs might not be part of the negotiations as ex MPs.

    46. think again says:

      SNP membership in the fire, I hope Nicola chokes on her Oscar for best actress of all time. She sure had me fooled. Thanks Magrit you are my saviour please send signed photo soonest, love an kisses.

      Sorry I must have nodded off for minute, had the strangest dream.

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s a couple of journos at the Herald seem to have taken, not leave of absence, but leave of their senses. One of these is Settle who has become increasingly prevaricatative and desperate.

      For instance, it was him (and Linda Develin), who put out the story about riots on referendum day, which caused the SPF (Scottish Police Federation) to issue its press release condeming such stories, and Labour politicians who had uttered them. The Herald never retracted or apologised for its attempt to incite riots and actual violence.

      The best thing is actually to BUY The National, and hope the old Herald fades away into obscurity, which will be very sad as it used to be a good paper, one I recommended the kids to buy for their close reading exercises when at school.

    48. handclapping says:

      “Because she refuses to support our policies and no matter how much she says she’ll never prop up a Tory government, that’s exactly what she could end up doing next year.”
      I must admit I was also worried by her apparent support for Labour even though they have promised to carry out the Tories policies if in Governmnet

    49. donald anderson says:

      Labour is the Tory Party in Scotland with their brains removed.

    50. David McCann says:

      @ Doug Daniel.
      Flat out lie describes her to a tee.
      Remember her telling Derek Bateman that Denis Healey was before her time?
      In actual fact in 1978 she had called for his resignation!
      Read Alan Smarts demolition at http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/05/28/being-there/

    51. smith says:

      “Even Nicola Sturgeon agrees that Scots should vote Labour … Curran will say”

      That sounds like a fun and profitable lawsuit waiting to happen.

    52. farrochie says:

      Why is Settle mentioned?

      My copy of today’s Herald has James Hamilton as the writer of the article in question.

    53. Luigi says:

      manandboy says:
      6 December, 2014 at 1:52 pm

      They’ll vote Labour till they die.

      But that’s the problem – they are dying!

      Since around 2000, when the rot really set in, the Red Tories have become increasingly dependent on the pensioner vote. They have managed to slow their catastrophic decline by a series of desperate measures (encouraging postal votes, nursing home visits, pension scares, wheeling out the oldies to the polling booths etc) but this core group of supporters is slowly dying off, and there just aren’t enough younger voters interested in Labour to replace them.

      The last big party to develop a dependancy on the grey vote in Scotland were the Conservatives in the 1970s (and we all know what happened to them). The Red Tories may be heading the same way.

      Tick tock….

    54. Andrew Haddow says:

      “I must admit I was also worried by her apparent support for Labour even though they have promised to carry out the Tories policies if in Governmnet”

      IIRC Nicola said the SNP would consider supporting Labour on a vote by vote basis. Obviously that would not include any of their Tory policies. That’s most of them though, right enough.

    55. John H. says:

      “You don’t need to vote Labour for Westminster to keep the tories out, because that’s what we’ll do.” Nicola Sturgeon’s speech at the HYDRO two weeks ago. Hardly a ringing endorsement for Labour.

    56. Helena Brown says:

      I reckon that Nicola is more than sure she will never have to give support to a Labour Government and I seriously doubt that Labour, should they actually manage to get a majority, would have the SNP as partners in any way. You just have to listen to the likes of any Labour Politician to realise they would rather cut their own throats than have to deal with the SNP, thank goodness for that.

    57. Jack Murphy says:

      Here is the Archived link to Mags Curran’s “keynote speech” to Labour.
      Full article is behind the Herald’s Paywall. 🙁
      NB. Scroll ONLY in Archive—–do not click as doing so will take you straight into the Herald!!! 🙁
      https://archive.today/OMEni

    58. liz says:

      I think we should buy the National even though it’s in the same stable as the Herald, because if it sells more copies then the Herald should have less input.

      I see there are still some folk not using archive – it’s up to you of course but you are directly leading to that newspaper gaining more advertising revenue.

      https://archive.today/IUmeV

      Think this is what Nicola actually believes about voting Labour.

      https://twitter.com/jakimccarthy/status/541189025533796353

    59. jock wishart says:

      I served my apprenticeship with the NCB as an engineer.My mum and dad were both trade union reps.My whole family voted Labour.They were guaranteed our vote.
      And guess What? You got it we all voted YES!
      (Exempt my brother who believed the scare stories over pensions).

    60. ronnie anderson says:

      OH Maggie Maggie may the laughing van find you before you do yourself any more harm,just get used to a smaller ward than your constituancy wan.

    61. Anyone, like Curran and other subservient ‘Branch’ mindsets who voted NO, wholeheartedly endorsed Scotland being ruled by English Tories. It’s only been a matter of days since they stood shoulder to shoulder with them, celebrated with them, hugged and high-fived them in saving their precious union. So now we have the pretence of returning to the old political discourse, the way things were before the distraction that was the referendum.

      Unionists want things back the way they were. Just a simple Us and Them. Not too hard to understand for the politically unengaged. A kind of political panto. Learn to boo the Bad Guys, that’s all that’s required. Even though they sided with them to keep the Big Panto Tradition alive and well. Let’s just resume the old entrenched positions. No thinking required. Everyone and everything in its place. And then everbody will be happy, even when the Bad Tories are in power 7 years in every ten. At least we’ll have the chance to boo!

    62. Juteman says:

      Why are some folk saying they will stop buying the National?

      I’ll buy two.

    63. Stoker says:

      @ farrochie.

      Have a look:
      https://archive.today/DRSAB

      (Link thanks to John King on a previous thread)

    64. Bob Mack says:

      Margaret, (or is it Brutus),as in et tu fame. Let us all be very clear. A number of years ago, when the Labour Party had a small thing called Principles, you may ,repeat may, have had a point. What I wonder would be worse these days. Voting to keep Tories in, or voting to be Governed by some two faced slippery Anglo shysters, who only consider their own needs before that of their constituents, and have some belief that being a member of the Labour Party overrides all aspects of common, let alone socialist decency. Go back to your pig pen and indulge in the expenses trough while you may. The political abbatoir beckons for all your kind.

    65. Fran says:

      Is there a link between the closure of mental asylums and SLABs more bizarre behaviour and comments through the years? Maybe care in the community is not working after all, reality seems to escape them.

    66. Mealer says:

      Off topic,
      Was the National published today?

    67. tombee says:

      It goes without saying that we should not mock the afflicted. Poor old Maggie Curran is beginning to show all the signs of advanced mental collapse.
      Her failure to recall important events in her diminutive career such as the relationship relative to Healey the former Labour minister who lied about Scotland’s oil resource.
      Now she is making it up as she goes along, forgetting her relationship to the Tories for the past two years or so.
      Even now at the stage of puting words in the FM’S mouth.
      All her celebratory antics at the result of the referendum, forgotten.
      Don’t be concerned for her though, she’ll be able to claim her reward as she enters the HOL,where she’ll sit with all her other scabbie ex Labour MPS who deceived good honest people who once voted for them. There they can swap notes on how to fiddle their next set of expenses.
      Where they can all sing together their old marching song.

      “The working class can kiss my arse, cause I’m in the House of Lords at last”.

      If she hasn’t forgotten the words by then.

    68. velofello says:

      I’m spoiled for choice. Vote to keep the Tories out. Red ones or Blue ones.

      History has taught us well the ways of the Blue Tories. Recent and Curran(t) speeches and behaviour of the Red Tories brings to mind the caution phrase – be afraid, very afraid. Just contemplate the prospect of the Red Tories governing – Milliband in command at Westminster, Murphy in command at Holyrood.

      Murphy, currently impersonating Groucho Marx. Policies? I have policies, and if you don’t like them, I have others.

      Please have the angels whisper the political truths and reality to the No voters.

    69. caz-m says:

      Margaret Curran voted NO in the Referendum, meaning that she would rather be ruled by a Tory Government from Westminster, than a democratically elected Scottish Government from Holyrood.

      She has saw her pal Helen Liddell(The Rt Hon. the Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke) reach the promised land and Margaret wants a piece of it.

    70. Andy smith says:

      “The best choice for Scotland is a labour government next year”, no, the best choice for Scotland would’ve been independence next year, but that cowpat of a woman fought tooth and nail against it .

    71. Stoker says:

      Juteman says:
      “Why are some folk saying they will stop buying the National?
      I’ll buy two.”

      And i’ll cancel it twice, once by phone and once by letter.

      SO THERE!
      🙂

    72. Valerie says:

      @Mealer, no, the National is printed Mon – Fri.

    73. davidb says:

      Ach what does it matter what the odious old hag says? Indeed why do we spend so much time fulminating at anything the biased media reports? I don’t watch the news any more. I only read online articles which interest me. I am much happier. Stuff the BBC. Stuff the Daily Rangers. Never mind what piss is being spouted by some harridan that doesnt know which constituency she lives in in a newspaper that only sells a handful of copies to an ageing pseudo middle class gerontocracy any more.

      Come on. Lets get back to positivity. Lets hear good news about great things being done in ours and other countries. Lets discuss new, positive, youthful, shiny bright tomorrow stuff. Labour are last century. Their heyday is long gone. Its only tribalism that still clings to their shirt-tales.

      And when – and it will be when – the forces of a positive future for Scotland seize the reigns next year and in 2016, lets hope the remnants of the worst thing that ever happened to Scotland – Labour – wither to dust like the old Whig Party they supplanted 100 years ago.

      Scotland has a bright future. A better future. An independent future. And a future free from these lampreys. Lighten up people. Forget them. Good riddance to them.

    74. farrochie says:

      Stoker says:

      6 December, 2014 at 4:11 pm

      @ farrochie.
      _____________________

      Thanks, Stoker, but I have the James Hamilton article that says

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/kuql05vqtfrkj5f/2014-12-06%20Herald.jpg?dl=0

      Identical wording, what’s going on at the Herald?

    75. thomaspotter2014 says:

      If this slimy horror Curran is sprouting this slander we can be sure that the rest of her scumbags will be following suit.
      The full implication of their double dealing in Better Together has went a bit ,well… Bitter.
      But it’s a pill they’ll have to swallow.
      This is only the start of how it’s going to ramp up til May’s GE.
      We need to be aware that they will say and do ANYTHING to squirm out of the rat trap they’re in.
      And we haven’t seen the worst of it,that’ll come as the elections get closer.
      Our elderly and those without social media will need enlightened about just how desperate British Labour in Scotland are.
      We know they have no scruples or principles and they are too far down the rocky road to turn back.

    76. Onwards says:

      Some people just don’t get that the National and the Herald are not the only 2 papers in the same stable, somehow propping each other up.

      Gannett is an huge American media company owning HUNDREDS of newspapers and TV stations.

      Each paper will live or die on its individual sales and profitability.

      If the National keeps up sales it will survive.
      If the Herald becomes unprofitable it will be dropped.

      Simple as that.

      The best chance for the National to take over from the Herald, is to outsell it.

    77. Proud Cybernat says:

      Did she really say that?

      “Oh no she didn’t.”

      “Oh yes she did.”

      “Oh no…”

      Jacket duly collected.

    78. donald anderson says:

      So whose the liar, Curran or Settle, or both?

      I trust Nichola will have an apt reply?

      I see Billy McAllister has dad his charges dropped and is reinstated by the SNP. I hope the Renfrewshire Four are reinstated soon.

    79. Luigi says:

      The Red Tory strategy unit has just realised that, in order to win back some of their supporters before May 2015, their “Keep the (blue) Tories Out!” message has to be endorsed by someone admired and trusted throughout Scotland. Unfortunately, very few, of any of their own are trusted these days. So, they looked around and said “who is the most trusted person in Scotland”. And some bright spark chipped in “I know – Nicola Sturgeon”.

      “Genius! What a brilliant, cunning plan”, they all agreed, that’s it then:

      “Nicola Sturgeon now endorses the SLAB “vote Labour to keep the Tories out” message for 2015 (whether she likes it or not). It must be true, because the papers are headlining it.

    80. Tamson says:

      @Susan, 12:14pm:

      “Curran helped Cameron become the Prime minister who saved the Union. Now she wants us to help her get rid of him. It just does not make sense, the Labour Party is all over the place.”

      It makes perfect sense, if you interpret it correctly. The correct way to interpret the words of a Scottish Labour MP is to always think they are answering the following question:

      “What do I need to do and say to ensure I keep this cushy job in Westminster, with a big fat pension at the end of it, for doing sweet FA for most of my life?”

      Approach the words of any Scottish Labour MP with this in mind, and they will always make perfect sense.

    81. muttley79 says:

      Independence supporters who advocate people not buying the Sunday Herald and the National really should be asking themselves what exactly they are hoping to achieve by it. The sales of the Herald will no doubt continue to fall anyway. The company that owns all three newspapers in Scotland is a large American one. If the sales of the Sunday Herald and the National continue to be strong, this can only be good news for independence and the cause in general. I honestly cannot see a good reason for not wanting the Sunday Herald and the National to do well.

    82. Stoker says:

      @ farrochie.

      Strange one indeed!

      Could it possibly be that you have (via the paper) the original article?

      And that cretin Settle has created a version of it for the “Onliners?”

      I don’t know, i don’t subscribe to any Unionist media so i couldn’t say how they work but that’s how it looks to me.

      I also read earlier today, on one of the previous threads i think, that it was this same Settle character who was responsible for a previous load of lies against the SNP.

      And the rag he works for failed to issue an apology or retraction.

    83. Bob Mack says:

      Wingers,
      If you analyse what is happening to Labour it is very strange indeed. They want, and will fight, to remain part of the U.K. They are openly hostile to a party in Scotland who serve only the Scottish people. They actually share similar policy themes with a party despised by the majority of this Nation ,and easily work hand in glove with them when the need suits, but want us to vote Labour to keep that party out. Their leader to be, was part of the Westminster establishment, and is if anything more right wing than the Tories, but the Labour Party try to sell him as a saviour. The pattern emerges of a party who are committed to self (and by that I mean a U.K. institution),and nothing else. The need for power is a hard taskmaster, and has corrupted these people beyond their “I joined to help make society better for people” propaganda. I will help them with the idea of making life better for the people of Scotland.—–Leave, and shut the door behind you. Try standing in an English constituency where your nonsensical behaviour may be more welcome. Every one of you is a liar and a Judas to your own people!!

    84. yesindyref2 says:

      Onwards
      Indeed. I keep reading this “buying The National props up the Unionist Herald”. Well, as you say, it doesn’t. The group own such as some Liverpool paper and various regional ones in the UK, each one standing on its own sales and revenues. If the National thrives and the Herald suffers, eventually it would go, though it would take months as it did well last year.

      I don’t know what’s happening to the Herald either. It promised to campaign for all those powers to be delivered to justify its NO stance, with an editorial saying how it had been a supporter of Home Rule for over 100 years, it even repeated that on the Friday / Saturday after the Ref, yet barely a peep from it. Instead it’s been doing Labour stuff and particularly Murphy like it’s going out of fashion, trying to rival the Record as the Labour rag. It’s also been pushing every silly word out of Carmichael’s mouth. There was a particluarly dire article this week from Barnsby or some such name, and then Colette Douglas Home or some such about the Makar joining the SNP. The Sunday Herald is the only one pushing for the Devo-Max line.

      I’ll get dog’s abuse for this, but I would like to see Gardham join The National as some critical counter-point and to produce some surprisingly even-handed articles. He may be following a gradual Kevin McKenna route and questioning the foundations of his previous beliefs. I think if he jumped ship, it would be the end of the Herald. Very sad, the Herald used to be my totally favourite paper decades ago, but it’s declined rapidly since September 18th.

    85. clochoderic says:

      Sorry to go OT,

      I hope the UKIP voters in Scotland are happy with their choice to represent us in public.

      This man is a scandal waiting to happen – invest in popcorn futures now.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/06/ukip-mep-ridiculed-twitter-call-ban-spoof-trumpton-account

    86. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Mealer

      Not on Saturdays, only Monday to Friday.

      BtP

    87. yesindyref2 says:

      Stoker
      If you look at the picture of Settle in the Herald, I think that’s a picture of Big Ben and Westminster behind him, to show his leanings. Ding, Dong!

    88. Stoker says:

      @ davidb.

      Although i’m in general agreement with the sentiments behind your post, i believe it matters.

      It matters because, as hard as it is for us to fathom, these rags do influence people.

      The more we counter and expose their lies the more credibility they lose. The more credibility they lose the more readers they lose. And the faster their sales drop the quicker the rag dies. The sooner the better.

      Besides, i don’t think any lie should ever be allowed to go unchallenged, especially political lies.

      The Yes Movement has come as far as it has because its full of people who question everything and don’t just accept what they’re told.

      Still doesn’t stop us from being positive mate.
      Remember, we are the ones who live by Hope Over Fear.
      😉
      _____________________

      Wee change of subject – Just out of interest, anyone know what the daily sales of The National and Herald are?

    89. manandboy says:

      HOW THE WEST WAS WON – AN UPDATE

      The Bitter Together campaign showed us how politics now works.

      Things have changed which means we too have to switch ON to the new model if we’re to understand what is going on and how.

      The entire No campaign was probably run by just a handful of people – each of them an ‘expert’ in Public Relations and the Media.

      That is the first big change – the centralisation of the campaign. The main effect of this is that the message is created by the PR team at command & control HQ. Individual politicians and spokespeople are under strict instructions to learn the script for that day or week and to mouth it on every occasion they find themselves addressing the public. The frequent repetition of key phrases was a key part of the No plan. Get the message across and embed it in the minds of the population. And it worked.

      So we find that the same phrases are used by everyone – all using the same script – sent to their mobile phones. A prime example is ‘pooling and sharing’; another is ‘no currency union’. Simple little phrases that everyone could remember – especially the elderly.

      The PR strategists do not want individuals doing their own thing and saying anything they like. Instead, all are expected to closely toe the party line. So what we hear is almost a recorded message. It is a mistake to think, for example that because Mgt Curran said the things reported in the Herald today, that she herself came up with the idea. Therefore to attribute the comments to her and hold her responsible is both to miss the target and miss the point.

      By keeping in mind the opposition’s PR management team, we are better able to work out their strategy and respond to it – something that Yes did not do well in IndyRef. The good news is that the Unionists have revealed their hand in IndyRef and that gives us an advantage in future – but only if we are able to acknowledge our mistakes, fess up, and then learn from them as we move on. This area will be a particular challenge for the SNP leadership.

      Having invested heavily in the American Republican movement’s expertise in electioneering, and knowing the effectiveness of the NO Campaign in Quebec in 2005, the Unionist camp have revealed the next big change in the delivery of an election campaign. It is the lowering of the tone, the dumbing down of the methods and the language of campaigning. It is to take dirty tricks to a whole new level.

      The old days of promoting your policies and presenting your plans for a better this that or the other are gone.
      Fear and smear with endless lies and deceipt, with a bribe as the cherry on top – this is the new model of campaigning.
      It is based on careful research and a keen knowledge of human psychology, especially of the campaign target groups – in IndyRef, it was the elderly.

      This proved a master stroke which the Yes campaign never even got close to countering because Yes were using the old style campaign methodology. The fear of loss triumphed over the hope of a better future, as a million scared elderly voters torpedoed a nation’s right to self-determination in a new independent Scotland.

      It is my view that the continuing focus on individuals in the unionist campaign, exemplified by the mass coverage on here and elsewhere of Magrit Curran, is a sign that we are not yet up to speed and may not be properly prepared in GE15 to EFFECTIVELY COUNTERACT the Unionist fear and smear campaign as it unfolds.

    90. yesindyref2 says:

      Being often up around the time the Herald puts up its articles (night owl), I was and am when I bother now, often the first comment on a thread. I noticed a few times my comments “disappearing” on Settle articles, and also some Develin ones too. They followed the rules and didn’t criticise the author or editorial stance, but did contradict what was said in the article – correctly as I always researched my material.

      To their credit I don’t think any disappeared from Gardham’s articles and as for Torrance, comments would be full of criticism of him personally and none of them would disappear at all! Respect, hats off for that, if not his actual articles 🙂

    91. davidb says:

      I drove out of Glasgow on Thursday along the Gallowgate. I was heartened to see the Saltire in windows and especially festooning one of the Pubs. I noticed Yes stickers in the windows of one of the flats too. It is magnificent to see the return of national pride in our great Yes voting city. I notice our flag lots now. And I see people reading a newspaper called the “National”. It identifies to me people who love their country. Proud Scots who are entitled to bear the soubriquet!

      Last weekend I saw several people sporting SNP badges – younger people too. Keep up the good work. We are winning.

    92. CameronB Brodie says:

      Completely OT, but I came across this.

      Talking of cunning plans, why do we have such weak politicians in Warminster? Could it be they are ‘compromised’?

      Better Together UKOK?

      http://www.tpuc.org/blair-covering-up-paedophile-scandal/

      P.S. Please ignore the bit of passive gay bashing. I think the author my have Tory leanings.

    93. heedtracker says:

      The National is a business venture to make money off of Yes voters. It’s that simple. In the most pompous way possible, keep in mind that for maybe a decade now, the majority of Scottish voters have wanted devo max for Scotland. They still do because they know Scotland needs it. We didn’t get the Devo max ref option and same teamGB fraudsters and UKOK unionists red and blue, are now trying to kid us on we really do now have devo max. Which is why Lord Smith, Eggs Murphy etc all had such big grins. They’re con artists and they pulled it off, they wish. But people are not as stupid as Westminster hopes and it’s really why Labour in Scotland are finished, unless they do get behind a devo max Scotland.

      The National is merely a roll up, roll up, cheap as chips side show bob. You pays you’re money, you get ripped off by hucksters like Cardham, it’s only money:D

    94. Gallowglass says:

      Stuart – did you listen to Lord Smith on the Scottish Committee the other day on the 3rd?

      Quite a few interesting points being made, alongside the opinion of Smith that implementation of the proposals not being finalised until 2018/2019.

      Five years.

      We could have been independent in two.

      Jesus wept.

    95. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Gallowglass

      Do you suppose they are trying to piss us off and they are doing it deliberately?

    96. fred blogger says:

      a disabled person has been put up for action for care.
      seriously.
      https://archive.today/hEmle

    97. Clootie says:

      heedtracker says:
      6 December, 2014 at 6:39 pm

      Somehow your post didn’t surprise me!

      I like the paper and will continue to buy it.
      You could look at it the other way – WE created the demand.

    98. Clootie says:

      fred blogger says:
      6 December, 2014 at 6:45 pm

      I had hoped that you were kidding! Unfortunayely not 🙁

    99. robertknight says:

      I think we should all take pity on Maigrit. Rumour has it the poor soul is up every night at 2 a.m, stood over the en-suite sink washing her hands and muttering the words “Yet here’s a spot. Out, damn’d spot! Out, I say!”. Evidently its been weeks since she had a good night’s kip. Sleep depravation can adversely affect the brain you know, scientific studies have proved it.

      Anyone hear how her old pal Johann whassername is doing? Haven’t seen her on the telly for a while. Has something happened to her?

    100. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ robertknight

      She was able to go back to her old teeth.

    101. Ian Brotherhood says:

      OT – If you’re anywhere near Irvine, SSP Ayrshire social night in the Turf Bar, High St kicks off about 8 this evening- quiz, raffle, jam-session, dancing and heaven only knows what else. All welcome!!

    102. Scott H says:

      Aye right hen

    103. Pete Barton says:

      @manandboy – superb.

      Now the rest of you,and I include myself here – listen up; no amount of puerile bitching will change things, it’s fun I know, but let’s get down to the serious matter.
      New ‘No’ readers don’t want to join a slag off forum do they?

      I want to see you all come up with idealogically sound and up to date techniques to counter these charlatans in press and politic.

      Call me out if you will, but listen to posts like his and discuss ways forward. Thanks.

    104. Bob Mack says:

      @ HEEDTRACKER,
      Let me get this right. You are advocating the demise of one of the only two media outlets which actually support independence?. Right ! Try again when your sober.

    105. Sinky says:

      Every time Labour come up with this nonsense we MUST remind voters that after Scotland voted Labour in May 2010 general election “to keep the Tories out”, Labour refused to join with the SNP and others to form a non Tory majority in the House of Commons and don’t let them forget that.

      Heed @ 6.39
      All newspapers are a commercial enterprise and we should support the National and rejoice that one MSM actually has confidence in Scotland’s independence. The National looks good and is getting better as the days go on.

    106. fred blogger says:

      Pete Barton
      my idea for common weal, snp, scotgreens, ssp, and for the scottish people’s alliance.
      is to look @ the setting up of a scottish people’s investment enterprise bank.
      to fund people in setting up their own social, economic, and sustainable businesses.
      in scotland, for scotland, by the people of scotland.

    107. yesindyref2 says:

      heedtracker
      Currently, as fas as I know, Gardham doesn’t write for The National!

      And to be blunt, who cares even if it is a rip-off, as long as it helps to get the pro-indy and even pro-devo-max message out there? I certainly don’t. I don’t care if they all end up multi-millionaires, good luck to them.

      As long as they pay their taxes in Scotland.

    108. heedtracker says:

      @ Clootie, look at this way, with 20 20 hindsight the big referendum mistake was yes or no for full independence and NOT yes or no for devo max only. Maybe Westminster could have blocked a devo max only referendum for Scotland but if they had allowed it, we would have won and won without all that rule Britannia hysteria, even the OO couldn’t complain.

      So, next time the referendum might well be, “Do you agree Scotland should a be devo max country?” I’m just be a realist here. Look a the full range of horrors blocking Scotland existing as nation state. If you don’t learn from your mistakes and so on… Also, The National wont change Scots voters minds because they don’t need changing

    109. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Heedtracker at 6.39

      Really? Who is “Cardham”? Have you read either the Herald or the National?

      “Devo max” is a meaningless description of what nobody knows.It’s devo max which can mean anything that is the con.
      We all know that. An increasing number of the population know it too.

      I smell whatever it was that Karen Dunbar was on about

    110. Valerie says:

      OT, watching the 3Dec Smith Commission in Committee, and its hard. But of major interest, Barnett was not part of the remit, with Lord Smith saying his understanding, is that the formula would remain untouched.

      YET, in the autumn statement, was that statement about a reduction to correspond with changes.

      Ian Davidson in the Chair is particularly nasty about the Scottish govt., and its sickening how they criticise yet the Scottish govt. Manages it’s budget so much more efficiently.

    111. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I am perplexed that some folk on here seem to imagine you need a referendum for devo max (whatever that is). By definition devo max (whatever that is) is an extension of devolution which is entirely in the power of Westminster. All you require for devo max (whatever that is) is for the government at Westminster to arrange for whatever it comprises and it doesn’t matter what Scotland does or doesn’t vote for vote on devo max (whatever that is)Westminster doesn’t have to do anything about it.

      The only way to get more powers for is to vote in increasing numbers for independence which leads to concession to Scotland – though not of course of any significant transfer of revenues away from London from Scotland’s natural resources or economic activities.

      In the longer term there are only two sensible and viable positions for Scotland. Fuller integration into a unitary UK state (which is what Westminster would prefer and will try to achieve in a drawn out war of attrition)or simple uncomplicated independence.

      Further devolution is not a stepping stone to independence. It is just another impediment

    112. muttley79 says:

      @heedtracker

      The UK government refused to have Devo max on the ballot paper for the referendum. Salmond and co had no choice.

    113. Pete Barton says:

      Fred Blogger

      Now that’s commonality we all can tie into. Indy,Devomax,whatever your leaning-
      to create (or re-create)something tangible as an example to ourselves.

      Drop me anything you have on that?

      @heedtracker – That’s novel-why didn’t anybody think of that?

      Lay the foundations for a new state by becoming one,gradually?
      Would the UK Govt. have objected to Devomax as a choice?

    114. donald anderson says:

      I took out a year’s subscription for the digital National and buy the hard copy from my local SPAR who hates the thought of anything Independent for Scotland. But- sorry – maybe I have been boycotting papers too long and have got out of the habit. But, technically the Hootsmon much as I hate rag, online version can show a thing or two. It is user friendly and you can comment on every article. The National could well do with that. There is not enough room in the printed edition for comments. It could be like wings online if it chooses.

      I’m trying to be supportive and constructive here, but I think it is time for fearties to be left behind with the new vibrant surge of support we now enjoy and there is no turning back. I feel as if I am going backwards to support the National, which should take a more leading role.

    115. David Agnew says:

      Just when you think Scottish labour have hit rock bottom, their approach to the rise of the SNP is to say: The SNP are not labour, they do not speak like we do. Increasingly Labour, sound like Tories. Vote labour to keep out a party that we increasingly resemble, because Nicola Sturgeon said so.

      I can’t even begin to think of how to approach this nonsense. The dishonesty here is mind boggling. The argument again that only Scotland voting labour can keep out tories, tends to forget that we did that last time and we still got the tories. If labour want to keep the tories out, they need to get England to vote them out. But they do need Scotland’s vote to keep the union together.

      But of course Curran saying something along the lines of “please vote labour, we’re really scared that if you don’t, and the SNP win – the union is finished, because quite frankly, between the smith commission and George Osborne the UK is fucked” would never go down well with the party that likes to say NAW! So instead Curran will waste a lot of time doing something everyone expects her to do – Attack the SNP, but this time claim that the SNP endorses this attack.

      Once again, I am having a hard time trying to figure out, how far up your own arse your head has to be to believe shit like that, let alone say it.

      answers on a post card please

    116. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      It should also be remembered that all the Myth Commission delivered was recommendations

    117. Jim Wallace says:

      She’s lost the plot

    118. fred blogger says:

      Pete
      i just thought of it yesterday, and thought i’d put it out there.
      but to suffice, it will need very tight admin, to ensure monies stay in scotland and for the people of scotland.
      yes indeed, a thread of enduring commonality.
      even established banks can put money into it.
      i’m for indyscot forever.

    119. muttley79 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Reverting to knee jerk fundamentalism is not going to achieve independence. If we had listened to the likes of Gordon Wilson we would not even have a devolved Scottish parliament, or a referendum on independence. Shouting at people to vote for independence will not deliver it. Salmond has been the most successful leader of the SNP, and he is a gradualist. I strongly suggest the two are linked.

    120. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      It would seem that the Labour Party (Scotlandshire Branch) has invested some of their dwindling membership fees in a Jarrow*.

      It’s the only explanation…

      *If you don’t know the meaning of ‘Jarrow’, consult here:-
      http://www.lib.ru/ADAMS/liff.txt

    121. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Pete Barton at 7.58

      As was just pointed out it was the UK Government that refused to have devo max on the ballot paper.

      To do so they would have had to define exactly what devo max was and what powers it comprised of. It is merely a re-arrangement of the constitutional status quo. There would have been little possibility of a unionist agreement on what is should comprise of and,of course,whatever it comprised of Westminster could revoke at any point.

      Devo max (whatever that is)can be delivered by Westminster at any time .
      Also the Smith Commission recommendations can be refused. Watch this space.

      Anybody who thinks we should get tied up in any devo max campaign should sharpen up a bit. It is a trap.

      And I think the boat has already left on devo max anyway. The 100,000 who have joined the SNP have joined for independence

    122. Tony Little says:

      @donald anderson

      The reason that WM did not want Devo-max on the ballot paper is that they would then be forced to define what this was. Everyone, AFAIK understands this to be all revenues and expenditures transferred to the Scottish government which then makes an annual payment to the Treasury for the small residual “national” interests, i.e. Defence and Foreign Affairs being the main two.

      If the WM MPs had tried to proposed the miserly effort from Smith as Devo-max, they would have rightly been ridiculed. That is the main reason. And if Scots had voted for D-M (which all polls suggest they would) then WM would have to deliver. This way they granted a get out clause of later offering this pathetic offering knowing that the MSM would never challenge them over the absence of meaningful powers.

      Hate Cameron as much as you want, but he is clever political operator (viz. his conning of Labour). However, I think je may have out-thought himself by underestimating the new mood in Scotland. The 45% (and rising) want del power, nd not this collection of half-baked and impractical guff.

    123. Albaman says:

      Curran,
      Bloody laughing stock!!.
      She’s a danger, ——–to herself!.

    124. James123 says:

      Sky reporter James Matthews said “there is a lack of depth in the SNP”, same reporter who said during the referendum that NO voters were scared to put up signs in case “they got their windows panned in”.

    125. heedtracker says:

      I refer my honourable freinds to

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-meaning-of-devo-max/

      “As such you’d expect it to meet with resounding ideological approval from Tory voters, yet they opposed it by a whopping 57% to 26%. Supporters of all the other parties were confident enough of Scotland’s economic position to want to take control of it themselves, by various margins – a net +7 for Lib Dem voters (44% to 37%), +21 from Labour ones and a hefty +76 from SNP supporters.”

      So next referendum, vote for teamGB and Devo Max Scotland. Only the Tory boys are No.

    126. Vronsky says:

      The deeply worrying thing is that tens of thousands of Scots will be taken in by this stuff. Well, maybe not tens of thousands, but certainly a few hundred. Or at least, c’mon be fair, definitely four or five. No, really…

      OK – just wee Jimmy round the corner, a lovely wee chap. He thinks that Elvis is still alive.

    127. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Donald Anderson

      I think it should be acknowledged that the National has been put together on a shoestring, it has got better every day but it will have to prove itself viable over a long term before it gets the staff and the facilities of such as the Scotsman.

      An no.It shouldn’t be other than very reasonable. It is not designed as a political tract. It is a newspaper and it will have to attract non aligned leadership before it benefits us, not frighten them off.

    128. muttley79 says:

      O/T Interesting tweet from Exaro News on the child abuse story in regards to the MSM:

      UK media has been very compromised. It took Exaro to bring disinfectant of sunlight into UK establishment.

    129. call me dave says:

      Herald reporting.

      Former First Minister Alex Salmond will end months of speculation and open a new chapter of his political career when he announces on Sunday that he is standing for Westminster at next year’s general election.

      Salmond, who had hinted heavily that he will seek a return to the House of Commons, is expected to confirm that he is to contest the Gordon seat in the north-east as an MP. He already represents much of the area as an MSP.

      🙂

    130. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      heedtracker

      Can you define “devo max” for us,please? You seem to have some information that has been denied the rest of us.

      Can you identify what “devo max” does that independence doesn’t do better?

      Can you give us any reason why a movement that is formed to achieve independence should step back to a lesser objective just as its membership goes through the 100,000 barrier.

      “Devo max” is a trap that is recommended to us by our enemies.

    131. Bob Mack says:

      The basic truth, and the premise we have to start with, is that the England had us hog tied, and believed we would never release the bonds which held us. Although the referendum was lost, the result for the Unionists was quite a shock, and they are bow very aware of the danger posed to their future. They will now regroup ,and plan to secure us in every way feasible, in order to prevent any future vote achieving Independence. We have shown an appetite to release the ties which bind, and the only way forward for them now is to break our spirit, and willingness to resist, by making it impossible for Holyrood to Govern or maintain a high profile. It is coming ,and in fact has started with recent initiatives from Westminster. Remember ,they control even our ability to have a vote on this issue in future, and after September I cannot see them putting that on the table again. We will at some point in the future have to take our freedom. If people think this is far fetched, just look across the sea to N Ireland, who despite the mayhem which occurred over many decades still remains a facet of the U.K. They do not give in easily, whether it is undemocratic or not

    132. heedtracker says:

      @ Dave McEwan Hill, Can you define “devo max” for us,please? You seem to have some information that has been denied the rest of us.

      Everything but defence I think, is what devo max is and also why and what Crash Gordon said Scotland would be given in THE VOW and depending on how hysterical he was. Maybe you’re right, maybe enough of 55% have changed their minds, or BBC/Project Fear eaing off a bit has shaken up voters to the fraud. But if I was the decider, next referendum would be for Devo Max Scotland, and after another decade…

    133. muttley79 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Devo max means all powers bar foreign affairs, defence, and part of VAT, to be devolved to Holyrood. The SNP defined it in their first term of office (2007-2011). You are talking about it being a trap, but this is exactly the same language that the likes of Gordon Wilson, Jim Fairlie, and other fundamentalists in the SNP used before the referendum of 1997. Dave, you know as well as anyone that the SNP supported a Yes vote in both 1979 and 1997.

    134. Bob Mack says:

      The problem as I see it with Devo Max is that it has in built dangers for independence. Let us presume that Scotland gets all these powers and manages its affairs very successfully. People will have faith in our ability to cope, but will that necessarily rekindle the need to leave the Union .After all things are all good without too much interference from Westminster, so why change ?. It is quite probable that the suffering to come with further cuts may be the catalyst to independence, as the populace becomes more resentful and unsettled. Difficult dilemma to judge is it not?

    135. Tam Jardine says:

      Why can’t these politicians get the idea of democracy into their thick heids?

      We’ve gone through the ‘vote no for more powers’ keech. Now it’s ‘vote snp and your really voting for the tories’ or vote ukip and your really letting labour in’ or ‘vote anyone to keep the SNP out’.

      I voted yes for independence. Others I know voted no for the status quo, others voted no for more powers. Is anyone happy with the resultant morass?

      It’s an old fashioned concept but you vote for what you believe in. The candidates in your constituency are asking to represent you and lend their support to whatever party they are part of if it is in the constituents best interests.

      All these political games are just subterfuge and do the electorate a disservice. The public can well understand their own motivation and choose themselves.

      The UK prides itself on its democracy but the reality is the democracy in your average young Enterprise group is infinitely more honest.

      Margaret Curran should stop worrying about Nicola Sturgeon and start worrying about how to better represent her constituents as that is her fucking job, a job she is well paid to do.

      Glasgow East needs a champion – does she think she serves their interest by lying through her teeth? Her politics is getting sucked into a black hole in Scotland. I for one canny wait.

    136. Swami Backverandah says:

      Breaking …

      Brown flees in fear as Salmond says ‘It’s Gordon’. 😀

    137. Tîm Criced i Gymru says:

      This from an article on Newsnet Scotland I’ve just read: ” …Steven Purcell, ex-Glasgow City Council leader… predicts that the SNP will at least double its number of Westminster MPs to 12 next Spring…”.
      Ha! What planet was he been interviewed on? If the SNP take, as is widely predicted 3, 4 or more LibDem seats, that would leave them only grabbing a couple or so Lab targets!!! Can’t quite believe he said that. I think 30+, if not the “41” present Lab incumbents are quaking in mire-filled boots – go for it, lads and lasses up there in Alba…
      Let me start the time-bomb ticking then…
      No.1: Gordon constituency…
      please feel free to follow my lead !

    138. Bob Mack says:

      o/t somewhat,
      But just saw on snp twitter account a release from the Labour Party that a selection process for Gordon Browns seat would be convened with six English members and one Scottish member to choose the candidate .Is this the same Labour Party who claim autonomy in Scotland? What exactly are Labour up here talking about when they say they are not a branch of anything

    139. snode1965 says:

      @heed troll, are you really advocating that readers of this site should stop buying The National? After years of complaining about a lack of a MSM voice for our cause…is that you Mags?

    140. Alistair Grapevine says:

      Bugger (the Panda) says:
      6 December, 2014 at 12:14 pm

      Stair Heid and fully functioning brain,

      I think thats an oxymoron…..ah i get it, just a moron.

    141. Onwards says:

      We just had a referendum in independence and narrowly lost.

      Right now, it seems like Devo-Max is the only realistic step.

      For independence, there is no point holding another referendum until we can win it.
      To be blunt, we are going to have to wait a few years until some more of the hardcore unionist pensioners pop their clogs, and are replaced by a new generation of young voters brought up under a Scottish parliament.

      It’s not just about pensions. There are old folks brought up with memories of the war and Rule Britannia, and listening to God save the Queen last thing on the TV every night.
      A lifetime of the Daily Record and the Sunday Post, and constant propaganda about how Scotland could never survive on its own..
      Voting Labour out of tribal loyalty, or because their husband or wife always did.. That’s just the way it is.

      With devolution, the more powers Scotland has, the looser the ties that bind are. That’s why every single devolved power is resisted.
      Even little things like a different drink drive limit, goes some way to increasing the perception that Scotland is its own country.

      And if it gets to the point where no more powers will be devolved, then there can be no last minute bribes next time around.

    142. galamcennalath says:

      I believe the London establishment is so anti-DevoMax (the real thing) because they believe it would almost certainly lead to independence.

      It could save the Union for 5-10 years. However, another illegal war, a trident replacement, leaving EU … All sorts of issues could cause a rethink of full independence. And, if DevoMax were already in place when that happened with all taxation, welfare, etc etc already being dealt with from Holyrood, that final step to full independence would be a small one.

      I take that view too. DevoMax makes full independence inevitable.

      There is no way they wanted Scots to choose DevoMax in a clearly defined form in a binding referendum!

      London doesn’t want Scotland to have independence, so they will do absolutely nothing which moves us closer. Thus each successive Devo rethink is just minor fiddling.

      As for all this talk of Smith fulfilling the Vow and actually being DevoMax, that has to be for an English audience. There must be very few people in Scotland not know exactly what it means. If they convince English voters that Smith proposes to deliver all No promises, then it makes further Scottish complaining look sour grapes from the losing side.

      What they didn’t expect is for the losers to behave like winners and potentially go on to make real political gains!

    143. Davy says:

      OT – Alex Salmond to stand for Westminster, “in Gordon”.

      YEH BEAUTY.

    144. heedtracker says:

      This is good http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/06/alex-salmond-run-seat-general-election-2015

      Rancid Graun even have photo of AliSamin where he looks like a normal human being. Spooky! Imagine the House of Commons when AlicSamin might win a seat and Mags Curran isn’t there any more? HAHA!

      What’s happened to oor Libby Carrell these days, so much full o ferocious red Tory Project Fearing, so little time.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/friends-like-these-2/

    145. Johnny says:

      I think Dave McEwan Hill has a point. It’s not that we do not know what the definition of Devo Max is, it’s just that unionist politicians get away with pretending they don’t and some of the electorate is not as firm on the concept as others. They rely on this latter thing and hope to spin it out for years until anyone gets bored of trying for anything at all (god forbid that happens, mind).

    146. davidb says:

      Hurrah! Eck is running for Gordon. Go kick their complacent asses Mr S.

    147. heedtracker says:

      snode1965 says:
      6 December, 2014 at 9:42 pm
      @heed troll, are you really advocating that readers of this site should stop buying The National?

      Buy it by all means but this UKOK columnist alone was never off the BBC lying for the union, especially all day 18th Sept alongside Crash, so I wont be contributing to her pension plan.
      Thanks anyway!

      http://www.theguardian.com/media/2007/nov/30/pressandpublishing.newsquest

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/game-on-for-labour-if-murphy-takes-lead.25722291

    148. Onwards says:

      @Bob Mack says:

      “The problem as I see it with Devo Max is that it has in built dangers for independence. Let us presume that Scotland gets all these powers and manages its affairs very successfully. People will have faith in our ability to cope, but will that necessarily rekindle the need to leave the Union. After all things are all good without too much interference from Westminster, so why change ?

      There is that danger, but there is also a point that the jump needed to ‘upgrade’ to a normal sovereign country, becomes smaller and smaller.

      With Devo-Max, the Westminster becomes less relevant, and Edinburgh increasingly becomes the focus.

      Any future referendum would be as much about emotional than political arguments.

      It will be time to cut out the middle-man, and join the world as a normal country.

      Even with globalisation, there are still big advantages that nation states have compared to regions.

      Just think about the huge boost to tourism alone, from Scotland having direct representation in Europe and in the UN, and more visibility in the world.
      Competing in the Olympics and Eurovision etc..
      Taking part in peacekeeping and aid missions.
      Edinburgh would become a real capital city, with more direct international flights..
      Scots would just feel more ‘important’..

      The ‘best of both worlds’ argument could then be used by us.

      All the advantages of a sovereign nation, while maintaining a close and friendly relationship with the rest of Britain.

    149. Marcia says:

      heedtracker

      Her columns are not in the National.

    150. Cadogan Enright says:

      this post awaits approval on Herald Scotland

      As an Irish person looking at press coverage in Scotland, it seems obvious that the quality of political reporting is of the very lowest quality.

      So-called journalist Michael Settle seems to have no trace or irony or humour in his report, and as ‘UK political editor’ seems to have somehow missed the fact that Labour trails the SNP by 25 percentage points – media in Ireland, the USA and Germany seem to have picked this up. If there is a job vacancy I want to apply as the job seems to require neither talent nor effort.

    151. heedtracker says:

      @ Marcia, any profit The National makes will go towards oor Katherine’s pay. Naw thanks:D

    152. donald anderson says:

      Well said Cadogan Enright.

      I’ll give you a character reference.

      Irish Republican must be shocked at Scottish Nationalists burning a piece of paper. They’ll stamping their feet in anger next.

    153. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      muttley at 8.56

      Whenever did all those commentators now punting “devo max” describe it as you have just done?
      As close to “Home Rule”?. Nearly federalism? Bullshit

      It means what anybody wants it to mean. Some of them are actually describing the recommendations of the Smith Commission as devo max.

      What you describe was more commonly called “home rule” or previously it was called “dominion status” – though why anyone would like to leave defence (Trident) and Foreign Affairs (Iraq and Afghanistan) with UK I have no idea.

      And the simple fact is that independence is a logical terminus and completely uncomplicated. Any further significant devolution is an unsustainable potential disaster for Scotland the rest of the UK – which is why I suspect we will get even less than Smith recommends. As does the SNP which is waiting patiently for Scotland to be screwed by Westminster blocking.

      There is a considerable myth continually described in the media as a difference between “fundamentalists” and “gradualists” in the SNP. No such well defined division ever existed. I was there. All “fundamentalists” recognised very fully indeed that progress would be gradual – but they also fully understood that aiming for underwhelming gradual progress meant they would get half of it at best. And subsequent events have proved them right

      Of course the SNP voted for Yes in 1979 and 1997. There was never any possibility that it would do anything else.

      But the only reason however that we got a vote for a Scottish parliament in 1979 and 1997 was the growing appetite for independence and the SNP continuing strong campaign for it.
      I will repeat that
      The only reason however that we got a vote for a Scottish parliament in 1979 and 1997 was the growing appetite for independence and the SNP continuing strong campaign for it.

      Despite a few silly (or dubious) people in the SNP before both those occasions suggesting that the SNP should go for “devo max” or whatever it was then called the Party sensibly kept up a firm and unambiguous support for independence – which led to the concession of votes on devolution.

      Had the party settled for devolution it would have never got to the vote and Scotland would have been given extra powers for the Scottish Office or some such other scraps.
      That’s how it works.

      We are here again.

      Devo whatever is a trap and an impediment and many more people now understand that. As a political ploy its time has passed.

      O/T I hear that Alex Salmond has announced he is standing for Gordon.

    154. Marcia says:

      heedtracker

      then you shouldn’t put links to her columns in the Herald as that might go towards her pay. 🙂

    155. CameronB Brodie says:

      Does this help?

      In his speech to the Conservative Party conference, the Prime Minister confirmed that the party’s 2015 election manifesto will include a commitment to repeal the Human Rights Act 1998 (HRA) and replace it with a “British Bill of Rights”. However, The Scotsman newspaper quoted a Scotland Office spokesman as saying that the change would not apply in Scotland. According to the article, the spokesman “confirmed that human rights legislation is devolved to the Scottish Parliament because it was ‘built into the 1998 Scotland Act [and] cannot by removed [by Westminster].’” As reported, this statement is seriously misleading. However, it does highlight genuine difficulties that devolution creates for the implementation of plans to reform human rights law……

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/devo-max-could-complicate-david-camerons-plans-to-repeal-the-human-rights-act/

    156. sinky says:

      Just watched bbc newspaper review with two commentators indulging in character assassination of Alex Salmond but were totally ignorant of fact the.snp does not vote on english matters ar westminster

    157. K1 says:

      Thanks Marcia 🙂

    158. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      galamcennalath at 9.48

      The logic of your expression is that we go for independence.

      If you want to be certain that “devo max” is a trap it is the fact that our enemies are proposing it to us

    159. Paula Rose says:

      (@ Cadogan Enright – but honey you have both talent and effort, so I think you’re disqualified.)

    160. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I apologise if I’m rabbiting on too much tonight but I can’t follow some of the reasoning on this topic.

      The party that campaigns for independence (and nearly got it) quadruples its membership in two months and some want it to abandon its aim for a lesser goal.
      Eh?
      How does that work?

    161. Stoker says:

      @ TCiG.

      Purcell is a seriously discredited coke-head with a shady past.

      Like all the other Slabberites his napper is seriously fooked up.
      ________

      @ davidb.

      When i first read your post i got a very satisfying image of
      Alex throttling Crash. Imagine my disappointment when i realised
      he was only going to kick the political excrement out of Westminster.
      🙂
      ________

      As for “Devo-Max” – nah, no fur me, its all or nothing.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbwgKH2SqoY

    162. think again says:

      I can imagine that if I were a leading light in the Tory or Labour parties I would have ensured that the Myth Commission lived up to its name. After all what is the point of conceding what you promised when you can get away with less? Especially when you known that the SNP and perhaps Yes Alliance candidates will make huge gains at the expense of Labour come May. At that point you need to concede more powers to stay in power or gain power depending on the outcome.

      With any number of possibilities it makes no sense for us to even consider Devo Max as a next indiref option. Independence or nothing must be our first choice and any progress is just a stepping stone towards that destination.

      A large pro inderpendance block will do more for us than Smith ever would. Our task is to ensure that happens in May.

      The first concession I would be looking for would be the power to call indyref2 at a time of our choosing with the options on the same basis, ours.

    163. fred blogger says:

      ‘So far, Labour has not commented on why it appears to have backed the Conservative refusal to devolve responsibility for ESA and UC to the Scottish parliament.’
      http://disabilitynewsservice.com/2014/12/scottish-devolution-agreement-falls-far-short-disabled-peoples-demands/ well labour may as well get lost!
      or words to the affect.

    164. heedtracker says:

      I buy it with relish Marcia! Politics is compromise or always should be. Well I subscribe here in England but would love to open it, front page on the tube, next Nigel Farage is a GOD, says Daily Heil, We Love Prince Charming grovels the Express etc

    165. Bob Mack says:

      Re the National,
      They would not exist except to fill the need of the people who want indy. They are fulfilling our desire to have representation. No different than going to Satchi and Satchi or Max Clifford, loathsome though they were. They got you noticed. There is time for morality after we become a nation, but right now we have to get in the gutter with the opposition and play them at their own game. They have no qualms about using their P.R. machine against us ,and dispense no doubt political favours for the service. Cochrane is a living example of what we have to compete against. You cannot win by your viewpoint being obscure and unknown to the majority no matter how well meaning you are.

    166. snode1965 says:

      @heedtracker, you are allowing your hatred of the herald to consume you. Our movement has grown because our honesty and upbeat positivity! A population deparate for a massive change in politics, high on optimism and hope! All that worries you is someone’s pension…sad.

    167. Bob Mack says:

      We will be given independence. .I predict it will be the day after our oil runs out and our stunted economy can no longer produce a surplus to send south. Might be a long wait right enough.

    168. muttley79 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Nobody is saying that the SNP is giving up on its goal of independence. Where you against devolution in 1979 and 1997? We have just got beat in the independence referendum. We cannot go straight back to another one. We aim for Devo max, just as we aimed for devolution pre 1997.

    169. John Young says:

      Thank you Sunday Herald that is simply a brilliant front page.

    170. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      think again at 10.47

      Thank you

    171. galamcennalath says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill at 10:42

      We can take independence if there is a democratic mandate to so do, but we have to be given DevoAnything.

      It looks fairly certain that WM only ever planned, or plans, to give us DevoFA

      I see the attractions of DevoMax in people’s minds, but it will never ever happen. WM will never devolve anything other than crumbs. There are, and were, only ever two possibilities – being handed out minimal devolution or taking full independence.

      WM currently plans to make sure we get minimal devolution.

      The penny is going to drop with everyone in Scotland over the next couple of years that those are the only two options. And, everyone has to make their minds up one way or the other.

      Cameron played the referendum well. With hindsight. He hoped he could win with just fear. However, when things got close, he (with help from his friends) played to the popularity of halfway house DevoMax in a wooly ill defined way. Gullible voters fell for it. Deceiving? Yes, and time will expose the deceit to greater numbers of Scots as they make up their minds what they really want.

    172. Fred says:

      On a hauf-biled note “Stair Heid” should be “Sterr-Heid” and “Lord Smith” should be “Boab Smith”. 🙂

    173. muttley79 says:

      Dave, you know fine well that there was a fierce debate between gradualists and fundamentalists in the SNP over the last two decades or so. To deny this is ludicrous. If there was no split then why on earth did Gordon Wilson urge us to vote No in 1997? Aiming for full Devo max is merely a continuation of the pro-devolution line from the 1979 onwards. It is merely a stepping stone to independence, which will always be the goal.

    174. Chitterinlicht says:

      Heid
      The
      Baw

    175. Paula Rose says:

      Give the electorate of Scotland some credit – the No vote was by and large delivered by many who “like” the idea of a United Kingdom, they are not at all happy at being considered a colony…

      https://archive.today/tYjty

    176. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      galamcennalath at 11.24

      Exactly

      muttley at 11.13

      We most certainly didn’t aim for Devolution on 1979. We have never aimed for devolution. And we never will – but obviously we will never turn down extra powers.

      We were ceded a Devolution vote because the SNP had taken over a third of Scottish votes at the previous General Election on a campaign for Scottish independence and we were still growing in strength. That 1979 devo vote was a debacle with large sections of the Labour party (which had ceded the vote to us) campaigning against devolution and the Tories promising Scotland something better of we voted No. We narrowly won but didn’t get it because of the 40% rule. SNP membership collapsed after the vote and the party went down to around 8,000 (from around 75,000 in 1974/75).

      This is very different this time

    177. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Bob Mack at 8.43

      “they control even our ability to have a vote on this issue in future”

      No they don’t. As Nicola Sturgeon has recently pointed out we do not have to ask anybody’s permission to decide how we govern ourselves. The United Nations Charter is completely clear on this point. We can have a referendum if we wish. It would obviously be better of rUK was supportive of this and agreed to it(as it did )but that is not a requirement.

    178. Stephen Findlay says:

      First Comment. Have been a lurker for over a year. Having been through the emotional roller coaster of the indyref campaign and the bewilderment of Scots voting against independence, this site in the aftermath has helped me maintain some of my sanity

      However dismayed at people saying they won’t buy the National. Given that any outlet in the public domain promoting independence is desperately needed, it seems to me that it should be given as much support as possible.

      All newspapers are commercial concerns. It’s the world we live in

    179. CameronB Brodie says:

      Is fundamentalist not Unionist language? Not very poetical and expresses exactly the wrong impression. How about ethical, irreproachable, clean, or some such?

    180. Barontorc says:

      Welcome back Hazel – you’ve been missed for what seems a very long time, but then, since that day and night in September, every single hour seems to just drag past.

    181. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      CameronB Brodie at 12.13

      The term “fundamentalist” was given to a proportion of the SNP by some trying to suggest we were divided. It was not a description the SNP used or made up.

    182. Donald says:

      @Bob Mack

      Scotland may gain her indepedence but it won’t be when the oil runs out we have something far more valuable than the black gold, a supply of clear fresh water. Water is predicted to become THE world’s most sought after commodity in the next 50-100 years as it becomes scarcer and scarcer due to climate change and humam over-population.

    183. Cadogan Enright says:

      @ heedtracker says: 6 December, 2014 at 10:27 pm
      @ Marcia, any profit The National makes will go towards oor Katherine’s pay.

      Dear Heedtracker – these papers are run by foreign capitalists – they don’t believe in cross-subsidisation. If one product proves more popular that the other, they will drop the weaker one if it starts to lose money.

      Buy the National and heap contempt on the Herald

    184. Marie clark says:

      The BBC biased! Well I never.

    185. Onwards says:

      “Scotland may gain her indepedence but it won’t be when the oil runs out we have something far more valuable than the black gold, a supply of clear fresh water”

      Scotland’s resources are a huge asset for the UK, no doubt.
      Big green energy potential too.

      Nationalisation of strategic industries makes complete sense for small countries with large resources.

      Look at Scotland on a map.
      The north end of Europe, surrounded by sea, far away from the main population centres and markets.
      High transport costs.

      Lots of hills. It’s wet and it’s windy.

      So we should have made the most of it with a national energy company and public utilities.

      Using our advantages to compete.
      Hydro electric and windfarms giving cheap energy to the public and to companies, once initial costs are paid off.

      Free energy would be a big boost to inward investment and making companies more competitive here.

    186. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      Are you referring to the type of people who can be seen cheering and waving flags via the link below?

      Thanks be to God for YouTube! – excerpts of the following surfaced in MSM at the time, but here is the full footage, and it proves how much of a fud the man really is.

      Bob ‘Fanny’ Geldof, gives the world a history/philosophy lesson (again?…aye…) in Trafalgar Square, on Sep 15th 2014.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqzlbUIX4Pk

    187. Kirsty says:

      Is this another story about Labour members’ illegal drug taking?

    188. thoughtsofascot says:

      @gillie
      http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-bbc-is-biased–against-power-of-all-kinds-9908348.html

      Seemingly the BBC is biased. Who knew?

      Christ, he is deluded. BBC biased against power? Lmao.

      The BBC first and foremost are British nationalists. They will side with reactionaries who they think will maintain the status quo and show hostility towards anything that changes their imperial worldview. Sometimes they attack the government, but more often they cheer-lead them on.

    189. robertknight says:

      In every UK General Election post 1974 the people of Scotland have voted Labour and ended up with a Tory Government.

      And before anyone starts about ’97, ’01 and ’05, it was Blair’s ‘New Labour’, the very essence of the ‘Red Tories’, that won; NOT the Labour Party as voters in Scotland would recognise it.

      Be sure to mention that FACT Magrit!

    190. donald anderson says:

      Even (Curley, Larry or Mo?)Findlay knows that Tame Unions always bargain higher and settle for less.

      If you bargain for Devo Max. You ends up with Max Headroom under a Smiff Commission: Devo Mince.

    191. Xaracen says:

      I’m shocked! There have been no new comments in the latest post on WoS for about three and a half hours?

      Where has everyone gone? Are they being blocked?

    192. Barontorc says:

      I think manandboy@6 December, 2014 at 6:04 has it nailed!

      Who was the PR strategist that brought the dirty tricks from the American Republican campaign and the Quebec Elections to the BT/Unionists?

      There had to be an outside element pulling the strings and it was bestowed with absolute power to get the goal of stifling YES – it’s the only explanation for the last minute VOW when all indicators had turned round to show the NO ‘fear’ tactics were having the desired effect. It had to be done on a belt and braces basis to guarantee that these tactics would deliver, so the VOW was made.

      So, we YES were beaten, not by popular vote but by paid mercenaries pulling every dirty string in the book and given total power to do so.

      No wonder Cameron was always looking so complacent and smug – he wasn’t running the campaign – he had an out – the fixers had to deliver or not be paid their blood money.

      And we had Blair Jenkins – bless him, good man that he is, but it’s time the inside info was spilled, who knows what happened?

    193. schrodingers cat says:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB-C9AYMmOs

      happy christmas westminster 🙂

    194. Lollysmum says:

      Thanks S Cat-I really needed that LOL

    195. Author_al says:

      Got to stop browsing the online papers. The Daily Hate is not impressed with Nicola, who is trying to ‘rob’ old Queenie. The comment section was hilarious/depressing/predictable in its indignation against SNP. Long may she -NS- continue to rain common sense down on the South.

      https://archive.today/1n45F

    196. biggpolmont says:

      One word says it all
      D esperate for votes
      E mpty headed
      R idiculous
      A wful
      N agging
      G ullible
      E ffutaition (yeah I know it means Twaddle or Humbug)
      D ire

    197. Capella says:

      @ Author_al also they are unaware that “the Crown” in Scotland is the people, not any particular monarch.
      Where is Robert Peffers? He could clarify this point. I hope he is well as he’s not posted for a while.

    198. Capella says:

      @ Barontorc
      The Labour party hired David (Prince of Darkness) Axelrod who was the Chicago based PR guru for Obama’s 2008 campaign. Mainly requires cartloads of money to be thrown at PR companies to make slick adverts. Unionists already own TV, radio and almost all the press.

    199. call me dave says:

      Heard the three amoebas this morning on radio Scotland.

      They are scraping the bottom of a deep barrel to expect any of these single brain cells to prosper in the elections.

      Murphy came a poor third in my opinion.

    200. One_Scot says:

      Does anyone know how close the SNP are to the 100,000 members

    201. Flower of Scotland says:

      Because the BBBC is in Labour mode AGAIN today, I badly needed a lift.

      Thanks S Cat that did it for me!

    202. SquareHaggis says:

      I see wiki has incorrectly stated the following

      “a referendum on Scottish independence took place on 18 September 2014, in which independence was rejected by a majority of the Scottish electorate”

      On this page; http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland
      At the end of the second last paragraph.

      Someone with an editor account may want to rectify this falsehood.

    203. Lollysmum says:

      Game on guys & gals!

      The monstering of Nicola has started with a vengeance judging by Daily Hate’s front page. WM are definitely running scared of any SNP success. No coincidence, this article timed to coincide with AS announcement.So predictable!

      NS is meeting Brenda in 3 days -this article is designed to scupper that meeting. SNP aren’t daft enough to say something like this. They will keep their cards closer & play them when the time is right.

      LOL well I suppose they have to counter AS with something. Definitely paucity of ambition.

    204. desimond says:

      Dear Jim…just how will those scheme kids get to spend 9 years at Uni?
      Prepare to vomit:

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/jim-murphy-whatever-bold-change-4763003

    205. Cod says:

      raising the minimum wage to £8 an hour over the course of the Parliament

      Good luck with doing that – considering one of the powers the Smith Commission didn’t give up was the ability to set the minimum wage by the Scottish Parliament, that would be quite some feat. It can set the Living Wage, but there is no authority to make companies pay that. So, a bullshit claim.

      the cross-party vow of more devolution has been delivered by the Smith Commission agreement and the debate has been settled and has moved on to how to use the new powers.

      Really? Except the “powers” are only recommendations and there is no onus on any incoming government to honour them even if they were passed into law by the current government. And considering the Tories and Labour are already cutting at them, there is a very large change many of the things listed will never happen in the first place.

      Plus, you know, there’s the whole thing of the fact that the wording in the report makes it explicitly clear that Scotland will not be allowed to benefit economically by one penny from any new powers, with any benefit being matched by a reduction in the block grant. And that organisations from unions to the third sector are decrying it as nothing near enough.

      Pathetic lies. And even more pathetic, but unsurprising, that they are published unchallenged in a national newspaper. But then, we have become used to such yellow journalism over the past couple of years.

    206. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thanks Cat – a lovely reminder of Nicol ( the Nose)Stevens whom I had happily forgotten all about!

      The MSM is hideous ,and will remain hideous but they are also losing readers so hell end them.

      For a lovely wee Sunday morning cheer up , may I suggest you all head off to that Wee Ginger Dug – carries a health warning ” No eating or Drinking while reading”

    207. HandandShrimp says:

      You know, I forget this woman even exists for weeks at a time and then every so often she pops up and says something utterly inane and I think “Oh yes, Curran, the one that couldn’t remember who Dennis Healey was…as plausible as ever”.

    208. Molly says:

      Anyone read the article in the Herald by Lord Mcfall? He intends to join with civic Scotland tomorrow, forming a group to speak to the CAB , find out about food banks, welfare reform etc. to get away from the tag of ‘scroungers’ and ‘scivers’.” Using the impetus of the Smith Commission “.

      Am I living in a different world?

      Is that the same scrivers and scroungers Ed Milliband referenced?

      Call me cynical but Lord Mcfall? Is this Labours attempt to say they are concerned about the reforms? The same reforms that half of them did not bother to vote against?

      Submissions from various parts of civic Scotland, anti poverty campaigners, disability campaigners even the Scottish Police Federation explained very clearly what was needed but now he have Lord Mcfall etc establishing yet another group to evidence it all.

      RIC , The Common Weal and the general Yes movement understood poverty, inequality and lack of opportunities was part of the reason for many of us wanting Independence( and obviously a lot of individual members of ‘civic Scotland’ who couldn’t perhaps put their own name out there to the public) yet here we have Lord Mcfall , Churches etc now going to tell us all about it.

      Can I say to to Lord Mcfall , the first thing you and your civic Scotland group should realise is, if you have to find out why people are having to use food banks, it is you who are living on a different planet.

    209. bunter says:

      Tarquin Cretin of The Rancid having a go at Salmond on Sky at moment. Vile hack.

    210. Helena Brown says:

      Molly, I have to agree with you but remember why they are all so eager to have Lord attached to their names. This little attachment gets them jobs which are not given to those without said attachment.
      Someone should remind him of his useless committees he fronted for Westminster.
      People are so hard up Mr Mcfall because when Tony Blair, a man you supported and Brown another one you supported brought in the minimum wage, it was so low that it did not cause any discomfort for the Employers. Then you did nothing to ensure that it was raised in line with inflation. The of course the working age credits, utterly useless, specially now the Blue Tories are in and then they have frozen them. We should also remember Mr McFall why working people need them, the are nearly working for NOTHING.

    211. Robert Louis says:

      Well, well, well, Sunday morning, and the ‘Scottish’ unionist junta is out in force, slagging off the First Minister of Scotland AND Alex Salmond on the same day. This tells us 3 things;

      1. The unionists are feart.

      2. Nicola Sturgeon has them on the run.

      3. Alex Salmond returning to Westminster will be good for Scotland.

      Bring it on!

    212. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @squarehaggis
      I have tied to fix the comments but the page is locked down. So I put comments on the talk page. Someone had been there before me and made quite a few comments on the pro-Union bias on the referendum parts of the page.

      It is well worth pointing out to Unionists and the “settled will” bridagde that a minority of the electorate voted No for the Union.

      That figure is 46.7% – hardly a ringing endorsement of the status quo plus Devo max/Home Rule?

    213. Grouse Beater says:

      Donald: If you bargain for Devo Max you ends up with Max Headroom under a Smiff Commission: Devo Mince.

      Pretty well sums up its Xmas tinsel decoration.

      ‘The Myth Commission’ – grousebeater-wordpress

    214. Grouse Beater says:

      Dr JM: That figure is 46.7% – hardly a ringing endorsement of the status quo plus Devo max/Home Rule?

      Acording surveys a good many preferred indpendence just not yet, and some thought to grab genuine Devo-Max to be independent in all but name.

    215. HandandShrimp says:

      I wasn’t entirely sure about Alex stepping down as FM but the way the cards have fallen since the referendum suggests that there has been serious thought behind this strategy. It is little wonder that Labour and all their little media minions sound rattled.

      A Yes vote would have been a clean break but if we have to prise their fingers off the reins of Scottish power one by one…well that will work too.

    216. Bill McLean says:

      O/T Everytime I click on to a link for The Independent (London)as at 1221am I get a pop-up telling me I’m being hacked by the “Syrian Electronic Army (SEA)” – this has been happening for about a week. Anyone else experiencing this?
      And what do I do about it?

    217. BrianW says:

      O/T I know..

      I do like how the BBC News website has allowed comments for Alex Salmond’s announcement to stand as an MP.

      Looking back I can’t see comments for Gordon Brown retiring from Politics..

      Am I being paranoid, or does this stink of BBC opening comments when ever it sees fit?

    218. Les Wilson says:

      labour, slab, are like cornered rats trying to protect their bit of cheese, nothing is too low for them, no lies are enough for them.

      They see the scotties rushing in, they have no where to go and they know it.
      All their snarling is not going to stop them being killed as the dogs circle.

      Last rites anyone?

    219. ronnie anderson says:

      Sos Rev for the O/T. ah wee cheer yous up for the start of the coming week.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dOCUChS2E

    220. boris says:

      Renfrewshire District Council is a Council that attracts to office Councillors determined to continually bring it to the attention of public through a series of claims and counter claims of corruption, fraud, scams and downright failure to act in the public interest. Councillor Kelly is a long serving Labour member of the Council and is a controversial figure with an apparent deep-seated hatred of the SNP. His record is not praiseworthy.

      His blog is basically a failing attempt to falsely expose the SNP as some giant homophobic conspiracy? It’s also interesting that he accuses other political parties of hijacking issues when most if not all of his posts about L.G.B.T. equality amount to little more than Trojan horses for a vitriolic attack on the SNP?

      July 2014; Maryhill Food Bank Experience Mocked by Councillor Kelly

      Demonstrating his caring side he provided evidence of exactly what kind of socialist he is when someone commented on his blog with this quote, taken from an interview with someone who works at the Maryhill Food Bank, which appeared in the Evening Times;

      “I have worked in social work for 20 years, so I am pretty hardened but we had a family come in on a Tuesday at 3pm having not eaten since the ­previous Friday. There had been a problem with benefits and because it was a Bank Holiday weekend the mum had no money for food for her or her two children. I watched the mum pick up and put down can after can, wondering what she doing, before I realised she was looking for one with a ring pull. She ripped the top off and starting eating the beans with her hands, she was so hungry. At that point I had to go to the toilets and have a cry.

      Clearly moved, the Councillor commented;

      “what a terrible story, a woman and her 2 children going without food for 4 days, did they have to walk several miles in their bare feet through howling winds and driving rain to get there as well?. No wonder you prefer anonymity, what a crock of bulldung.

      ii. If your social worker with 20 years experience actually exists, you should ask her what caused this catastrophic breakdown in the social work system which has provision to make sure that such an incident could not happen. Hyperbole is difficult to avoid when you are an idiot.”

      When the poster returned, again citing the source of the quote, the Councillor stuck steadfastly to his faecal based defence;

      “I don’t care if you read it in the fecking Bible, it’s a crock of s**t and you are an idiot.”

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/12/07/councillor-terry-kelly-renfrewshire-district-council-a-lifetime-of-controversy-in-local-goverment/

    221. Blair paterson says:

      I have posted before about this and so I do again if Nicola did not say what curran said and the newspapers reported then she should sue them both and expose them ,we can post till we are blue in the face but they will just keep on doing it because they are getting of with it without any comeback from the SNP ,time to start doing something about this

    222. Fred says:

      Yese are jist jealous coz Magrit is blonde, brainy & a babe!

    223. Lollysmum says:

      @Bill McLean at 11.57

      Go to Malwarebytes on the web & download the free trial for your particular operating system.

      Switch off System Restore on your pc.

      Restart your pc & put it into Safe Mode -in Windows you hold down F8 key whilst pc starts up.

      Once in Safe Mode run the Malwarebytes program from there. It should find any rogue programs or code in it.

      Once you’ve completed that & followed any instructions from Malwarebytes then you can restart pc as normal.

      Switch System Restore back on & you’re good to go.

    224. Lochside says:

      BBC Scotland radio this am…Bill ‘urm am urm’ Whiteford displaying abject level of journalistic ‘skills’ interrogating (ha ha) the SLAB leader candidates.

      Boyack like a talking clock…’reconnection of politics with the electorate’…so what would you call the REF turnout and subsequent quadrupling of SNP and Green membership? asked Bill…No he didn’t, are you kidding? this is the BBC, Unionist Broadcast central.

      Then Findlay stumbling over ‘rediscovering Labour values’…twenty five years too late pal. Both he and Boyack coy about the stitch up taking place to put the anointed one on the SLAB Branch manager’s throne.

      Finally..Murphy, in fact nearly nothing but Murphy throughout the ‘interview’ the unctuous, snidey sub- Thatcher wheedling tones of the talking bacillus.

      ‘relaxed’ about everything, ‘concerned’ about education..well he should be having enjoyed nine years of grants and no fees at Uni at taxpayers expense. Maybe no degree, but an apprenticeship in graft that has allowed oor Jim to live off the fat of the land and others’ sweat very comfortably by being nothing but a backstabbing devious cypher.

      Easily palming off Whiteford as if he wasn’t there (maybe he wasn’t) Murphy went into his usual character assassination of the SNP and deflecting his own orchestrated coronation back on to NS. SLAB standard operating procedure: divert all that applies to them back on to their hated opponents. Weasel words from a sewer rat.

      This type of programme purportedly passes for serious political discourse in our country. It shames our nation and the organisation that produces it. The fact that it is black propaganda is a given, but the production values, presentation and research involved is so lacking in any professionalism or even intelligence that it illustrates the decline of the BBC to a level beyond redemption.The sooner this malfunctioning Lord Hee Haw propaganda branch office is closed down the better.

    225. Capella says:

      @ ronnie anderson
      Watched the first few minutes of Hector – so funny- must get a cup of somthing and watch the rest. His opening song could be the National Anthem – a jaunty wee number – and his outfit so suave!

    226. Lollysmum says:

      @ Stephen Findlay @ 11.55

      Welcome to Wings. I too lurked for a long time before posting. Get stuck in & join the fun & plotting.

      I agree with you on the National. Everyone here has complained for what seems like forever about having no voice in MSM-now they have that, they still aren’t happy.

      Personally, I don’t even live in Scotland & like heedtracker I would love to sit on the tube in London with a paper copy just to see the reaction but I’m realistic enough to know it isn’t going to happen so I have to make do with the digital version.

      Everyone should support it or lose it.

    227. Martin says:

      The utter collapse of Labour in Scotland will be all the sweeter. I can’t even name one “good” Scottish branch MP at the moment. There are still a couple of decent ones in Wales, by all accounts, but not a single one up here that I know of.

      Which is why I won’t mourn their unemployment.

    228. HandandShrimp says:

      The BBC HYS on Alex standing for Gordon is a remarkable seething cesspool of hate and bile. Barely disguised anti-Scottish vitriol egged by a couple of the usual Bitter Together types. I can’t see any of that doing any harm to Yes side or the SNP. They are simply burning what few bridges there are left.

    229. Paula Rose says:

      It’s time the No mob accepted the result of the referendum and the fact that there will be a large contingent of Scottish MPs at Westminster who will do what’s best for Scotland.

    230. Bill McLean says:

      Lollysmum – thanks very much will have a go!

    231. farrochie says:

      Now that Murphy has been crowned branch office manager, journalists should be sniffing out the details of Johann Lamont’s downfall.

      Characters in this story may include all the major Labour players. Murphy himself, Curran, Sarwar, Miliband and their advisers.

      An interview with Johann Lamont would be quite a coup. Why were her efforts at FMQ so pathetic; was she fed these ill thought out scripts with a view to making her look ineffectual?

      I hope the truth will be told one day; but Johann now fades into background, the narrative already prepared to label any word she utters as “bitterness” at her departure.



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