Wings Over Scotland

Here, here !!

Will now sit back and marvel and the magnificence that is about to duly unfold.

In the meantime, steady the ship plough millions more, (than we already do) to the NHS and Education await the shambles that is BREXIT then when it is time to move move quickly and decisively. Independence is a genuine way out it is a shame others do not share our concern…roll on 2018.

The Tories wanted Brexit to take back control from the EU and now the N. I. unionists are in control of the UK.

Gobsmacked doesn’t cover it.

Glad Nicola didn’t resign. Sorry to see so many good Westminster MPs have lost their seats.

Quote “The battered and bruised supporters of independence should take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit.”

Indeed. Nothing has changed apart from the weakening of the London Tories, and the exposure of Labour in Scotland as the self serving Tory supporting charlatans we all suspected. I just wonder if Kezia will notice that the ‘stop the SNP’ nonsense only really benefitted the Tories.

The Progressive alliance tactical voting south of the border seems to have been substantially effective in taming the tories. Pity Labour didn’t join the progressives; but then they aren’t are they? Either side of the border.

Thanks for calming me down. I think the SNP has to become more welcoming the YES movement. It needs to reconvene this as a political movement to VISIBLY widen Independence beyond the party. It needs to, in a way, hand over ownership of it to a coalition whose can concentrate on promoting indy without having the shackles of a records of an incumbent Scottish Government. It was the focus, by the media on the record of the SNP in Scotland and the manipulation and distortions of facts and figures which helped them.

Likewise we need to give up on the mainstream media. Even rebuffs will not be printed or will be ignored by the state broadcaster. There needs to be a new proper and professional IPTV channel for Scotland. I assume this takes it out of the control of broadcasting which is reserved.

the SNP in Hollyrood now needs to be more adventurous and ambitious in shaping Scotland. they need to take the bull by the horns and change Scotland for the better. Accentuating the fact that we can do things differently. For one, they need to bring in land reform and that should be land tax or rates for shooting estates and Farmland. From this, monies could be channelled to those farmers who need it and who will loss out due to Brexit. But radical ideas such as this are required.

Lastly, offer and in out referendum on the EU after Indy.

Stuart, you have a beautful mind. As always a brilliant article. Thank you. I for one ALMOST voted Green, not because of Indyref2 or Brexit, but because the SNP has taken it’s eye off of the ball in running my country. Reluctantly I voted SNP yesterday. Several of my friends have left the SNP. Perhaps worth thinking why so as to take remedial action.

The masterstroke of the SNP when it first came to power at Holyrood is a dim and distant memory – running our economy well and treating the electorate with respect. My SNP MP has lost his way and fails to answer emails to our registered charity, whilst the SNP MSP is a sleekit 5h1t. It is getting harder and harder to keep the faith and vote SNP.

I believe we will get IndyRef2 and win it. However, as always Stuart, you have your finger on the pulse and this article of yours proves it. Good man.

The BBC, yet again, won this for the yoons. We didn’t put up a fight. The BBC framed the debates around irrelevancies, and invited the biased audience – and we let them.

This is far from a disaster for the SNP, however we will never win if the yoons can lie with impunity.

And it is already being painted a disaster for the SNP, after winning more than half the seats.

Can we the sue the BBC for defammation ? Lying ?

Or are we going to just sit back and let the lies continue unabated ?

Rev. Didn’t I read somewhere that 2017 was going to be a long and boring one, politically speaking? 😉

We do indeed live in interesting times, and I agree that this is a time for calm heads and a long slow look at the Independence movement and what is the most effective way ahead.

We have lost some good parliamentarians, but instead of wishing them a nice rest, let’s co-opt them onto some form of internal review to re-boot the YES movement and see where we go from here.

What happened to the million respondents to the national question? Time to review the SNP (non)relationship with the BBC and Scottish media; time for an assertive approach that puts simple facts to the Scottish public again and again and again.

The unionists have shown that even lies, is made simply and repeated will get traction.

Time the YES movement did the same.

That is a coalition. Full support is a coalition. Just because no cabinet seats taken that doesnt make it a minority government. With a minority government like the snp had, there is a chance of defeat. With full support that IS no chance of a defeat.

Those calling it a minority government are misleading.

Correct Stu mandate is in the bank. However indi ref 2 mandate must be used at some point in the next 4 years. No more long games waiting for another majority. Use the mandate or lose the mandate.

As far as what will happen now. May will find it very difficult to cling to power. Negotiating with Unionist Ultra’s and the EU will not go well. One of these morons will want a cabinet position as well!

Hard Border, no single market, no freedom of movement. We will leave with no deal and soon. Maybe by the autumn. Then we go forward with indi ref 2.

We lost seats due to circumstances, tactical voting and the naivety of the youth vote. At least 10% of that Labour vote are pro indi. So 47% of the voters are pro indi. Support for indi has not changed. People just took a break from voting SNP. Some unionists switched back to Yoon parties from the SNP.

My post vote comments…
………..
“Labour will probably win the same amount of seats as the tories WITHOUT tactical voting.

Seat neutral in Scotland.

Please note, the tories are ABSOLUTELY NOT advocating tory supporters to tactically vote labour.

Does that not ring alarm bells ?

Now imagine the tories win a tiny majority within the margins of tory seats in Scotland…”
………
Result?

No majority, but Scottish seats differential between labour and Tories as result of tactical voting enough to allow tories to form a government with DUP.

Suicide by media. That is scottish Labour. In invoking their supporters to vote Tory they may well have prevented Mr Corbyn becoming Prime Minister this morning, Wonder if he will forgive and forget? The Labour supporting Daily Record must reflect on the very same thing. Between them they have probably scuppered a Labour government this morning.

Yes Rev the trend of Brexit and supporting the Union was very clear, but not unmanageable. Brexit is a shambles but it will as you say happen. Then those who opposed the SNP from within will have to refocus. I believe the main recipient of lost SNP votes was Tories, and logically this can only be attributed to Brexit.

This will all unravel during the current year is my confident prediction because the whiff of power will go to the heads of the DUP and their demands will become untenable, even for Mrs May.

Thank you Rev. Just read this out to the family, happier now.

Absolutely no doubt the SNP campaign was lacklustre. We needed to grasp the thistle. Instead we never took Ruth head on and argued the case for independence. We tried to run it like 2015, but the game had changed, as the enemy had changed.

We can’t rely on a weak UK opposition party to maintain our core vote. We relied on Corbyn being unelectable but that changed. Young folk left the SNP for Labour and we lost 6 seats to them.

It’s depressing to think back to the 2015 days when everyone wanted the SNP to win. I think like most things in life the SNP became the party of residence rather than the party of independence.

They need to be very careful about missing opportunities and waiting too long.

However Labour say there will be another General Election before the end of the year.

It was John McTernan!

Mayhem’s obsession with bring ing the SNP down to size has cost her dear.

Mayhem has lost her majority. Sturgeon’s majority has been reduced (to be expected) but remains intact – SNP remains largest party in Scotland.

Triple-lock has been secured.

So Mayhem – Section 30 any time soon would be just fab.

Over to you.

I wonder who Corbyn will choose as Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland.

He has more choice and I wouldn’t place money on it going to Ian Murray.

“Sort yourself out, boring old Wales.”

Thanks Stu, that was the laugh out loud line for me.

Weren’t we all hoping for a hung parliament in 2015?

I was a tad angry last night, but now upon reflection, seeing Ruthie’s triumphalist face…you know…. her smiley for the camera face , I know that inside she knows the Tory party have failed in their ultimate objective in calling this election i.e. to get a clear majority for Brexit mandate…or whatever…..she knows that we know that she knows her own victory is hollow as her party has diminished post GE at WM….to be sure to be sure ( sorry Northern Ireland could not resist wee nod to DUP and the coalition of fascists).

Let the Unionists gloat today but remember things change quickly in politics and there is a little thing called Brexit to deal with…..today I hold my head up high knowing that whatever happens now at least I did my best to try and prevent it by voting SNP and that gives me GREAT comfort.

Scream if you want to go faster because that is par for the course today in politics……you think last night was mental….I am sure we ain’t seen NOTHING yet.

Get your popcorn…so sure you will need it.

Have a chilled out day everybody…..we have been wounded but we ain’t dead yet !

Couldn’t agree more Rev.

Nothing’s going to stop the political and economic iceberg which is hoving into view and when it hits? It’s going to be messy and all over the place. The next bit is definitely R rated and not for the faint hearted.

The UK’s governance and in fact its politics in general, is in utter chaos right now. What comes out the other side of this epic omnishambles is anyone’s guess.

Sinn Fein could call for a referendum for Unity with Ireland. To avoid hard border.
this would throw a real spanner in the works.

No boring old Wales, thank you – not least as many of us have been working bloody hard for the independence of both our nations and some are members of both national parties – for a good many years. The pattern appears rather more fluid than has been given credit. The Tories lost 3 of their seats to Labour. The Lib Dems were wiped out in Wales (where they also have only 1 Assembly Member and are a poor 4th in local government.) Plaid Cymru actually gained a seat (on a lower amount of votes cast than previously, yet around equal to its normal %), to equal its higher ever score of Westminster MPs @ 4.

As it’s all about winning, Plaid Cymru can be happy to have stemmed the Labour tide in all the constituencies it was holding and also to gain that extra seat from the Lib. Dems.

PS I’ll still support you, Scotland, as I trust many right-minded Scot Nats will support my country. Thanks.

By the way, I trust that was an inadvertent slip:

“… the Prime Minister is as we write en route to 10 Downing Street to inform the Queen of her intention …”

I had assumed that Elizabeth Windsor resided at Buck House, not some poky little house in some London backstreet …

Yours aye,

“The Unionist parties and media are of course screaming that indyref 2 is dead in the water. Yet polls as recently as this week showed it still around the same level as it’s been since the 2014 referendum. The SNP has lost support, but independence hasn’t.”

Which perhaps justifies a very broad YES2 campaign with the SNP in the background?

Remember YES1 was all about salmond via MSM.

Much better to give them multiple targets.

I have seen a couple of references to the SNP’s campaign and the words ‘poor’ and ‘lacklustre’ being used. People seem to have forgotten that the launch of their manifesto was delayed by a week because of the Manchester bombing and when they did launch the manifesto it was overshadowed by the London terror attack.

This void left them with little to promote and gave their opponents an opportunity to ramp up the attacks on the SNP’s record at Holyrood when they were not saying no to a second referendum.

Luck plays a part in any endeavour no matter how well prepared you are. The SNP campaign was unlucky to be caught between those two terrorist attacks and coming straight out of local elections into anew unexpected GE. But even without that they would have been extremely lucky to repeat the 2015 result. They might though have done better than 35 which is still a very good result. That is a message that has to be hammered home at every opportunity.

Hard core unionist labour supporters voted tory in Scotland and some labour voters seduced by Corbyn’s manifesto, left the SNP to vote labour.

If you do not believe this, look at the numbers (as Stu says)

The labour vote share in Scotland hardly changed, yet they won more seats.

Problem is, by Kezia Dugdale telling people to tactically vote tory to “beat the SNP”, the gained back traditional labour support from the SNP from 2015, was cancelled out by the loss of hardcore unionist labour support going to the tories.

Result?

Labour make a few gains, but crucially, tories got in by the back door as a result of Labour party advice to tactically vote.

Scottish Labour and Kezia Dugdale are 100% to blame for the continuing tory led government, but hey, the SNP lost seats, so thats alright…!!

Except it isn’t.

The SNP still WON the election in Scotland.

They won 60% of ALL Scottish seats.

Thats 20% MORE SEATS than ALL unionist seats COMBINED.

There is STILL a referendum mandate in the pocket, given by the people of Scotland and ratified by the Scottish Parliament.

The Tories had a DISASTEROUS result last night, an absolute calamity.

Unionists are running about shouting Indyref2 is dead, but that is patent nonsense.

That large chunk of previous SNP voters who voted labour last night will look at the result, see they have STILL got a TORY GOVERNMENT.

Those voters are largely supportive of independence, and would still vote YES in a referendum, so while the SNP lost seats in a WM election due to unique voting patterns, that DOES NOT means support for independence is actually down.

Quite the opposite is possible, when people realise that they face another 5 tory years and a shambolic brexit.

In short, 35 SNP MP’s and a Minority Tory government, is BETTER for the indy cause than 56 SNP MP’s and a Majority Tory government.

There is NO tactical voting in the upcoming Indyref.

The choice is straightforward, vote Yes, or get 5 more years of tories determined to harm Scotland with a brexit negotiation held hostage to the most extremist political party in uk politics, the DUP.

Anti abortion, anti gay marriage (how does ruth davidson feel about that) and advocates of a hard border post brexit with the Irish Republic.

I believe independence is MORE likely after last night.

Time to sit back and watch the shambles unfold.

And remember…SNP WON by some distance in Scotland.
……..
35 SNP

13 TORY

7 LABOUR

4 LIB DEMS
……………….

SNP landslide however you try to spin it.o

In 2015 I who could have predicted we would have got 56 MP’s, In 2016 who could have predicted the UK would vote to leave the EU, In 2017 who could have predicted the Tories would loose their Majority. So who know what happens next.

With the UK having elections and turning over PM’s like a banana republic divided by Nationalism and Unionism in Scotland and Northern Ireland, pro-brexit and anti-brexit and a more clearer divide between right wing and left wing politics the UK no longer feels like a ‘stable’ state that can last much longer.

On paper, c10% drops in SNP support alongside corresponding rises in Scottish tory rises look weird. IF thats the tartan tories leaving the SNP, then good. As Rev says, the SNP & Yes are not the same thing. Of course it will be some Brexit Yessers occupying their most convenient Brexit vehicle.

But, I suspect its more likely that with middling turnouts, more tories simply turned out, boosting their core vote whilst less SNP voters turned up to vote.

And some 2015 ‘leftie SNP’ voters simply concluded that in a UK context, Corbyn was a better alternative to May.

56 was a mad aberation within a clearly flawed system (95% of seats on around half the vote???). The ‘resettling’ of Scottish seats is fairer & more proportional, even if its a loss of SNP seats. 35 SNP MP’s is still an astonishing accomplishment. Just over 2 years ago the SNP had 6 MP’s.

Last point. If ScotLab/Tory/Lib fought this election purely to send a message to Sturgeon/SNP/Yes, then no amount of continued MSM propaganda/lies can dress up a 35-24 victory for the SNP as anything other than a ringing endorsement of the SNP and a clear rejection of the anti democratic Stop Indyref2 BS. This is a cold hard truth, although we know it can’t ever be reported that way.

It’d be like Aberdeen FC claiming they won the treble this season. They’d be pilloried if they were that deluded. Yet 13 v 35 (tory v SNP) will be constantly claimed to be a victory for Davidson. It just soooooo isnt. Its a clear SNP victory. Aberdeen didnt win, but they didn’t claim to as that would be nonsensical. The tories didn’t win, but claim to. That is just nonsensical!!!

Sorry, another last point. If Davidson had any political bravery, she’d have stood last night, won a constituency & now be in a much much more plausible position. Christ she might even be able to challenge as UK leader/PM. Imagine if it was she who toppled Salmond. But she didn’t. Why? Catastrophic missed opportunity for her. Doubt she’ll even realise, will be to busy claiming victory somehow.

Ruth’s Conservative and UNIONIST party….that’s Democratic UNIONIST party to you….boom !

No need for panc…..You don’t win 95% of the seats in every election. The SNP are still by far the largest Scottish party in terms of seats and in terms of vote share.

Onward, forever onward to victory

When the General Election was called in April I did then make the remark that Edward Heath did the same thing in 1974 and he lost his majority.

The minority Tory Government will be quite an insecure administration during the Brexit process as the pro-EU Tory MP’s who have been remarkably quite since last year’s referendum will now able to show a bit of influence that they lacked up until yesterday.

The Ruth Davidson ‘No to IndyRef2’ party was clearly rejected in GE17. The SNP with IndyRef2 mandate already in the bag were victorious again. Ruth Davidson lost – she should resign.

I wonder what the fishermen will think when they find out that their dream of 200mile fishing rights is that just a dream now more than ever the EU will get their way and Scotland will be sold down the river again.
Without these Scottish Tories May would be history so I hope Dugdale is proud of herself for telling her followers to vote Tory.
As far as I am concerned the SNP should get tough on BBC Scotland and refuse to give any interviews with them as they to my mind did all the damage to us,I noted that Vine made a snide remark that we could not refer to Scotland as having more Pandas in Scotland than Tories.

Wait and watch folks.
Arlene foster talking there about how we are under threat from extremists.

We have our mandate. Wait and watch.

A future prediction. 5 years down the line and no indy2, fishermen in NE see their boats rusting in the harbours as Westminster screws them over again with CFP 2.Farmers go bankrupt as produce rots in fields because on no migrant workers, no subsidies and high tariffs. Workers in industry see their jobs move to EU as companies abandon us. NHS becomes a complete disaster as EU migrants leave. Local government in crisis as workers made redundant. Cost of living rockets as £ falls below 1€ and collapses against other currencies. Meanwhile Slab still insist they made correct decision to vote tory. But in their eyes it is all SNP’s fault.
If/when this happens then all I can say is hell mend them, they have stolen their own childrens future and all but killed the elderly in this country.
Sorry rant over.

Further Catholic migration into the UK will now have to be conducted through people smugglers.

If Sinn feint is the political arm of the IRA, is the DUP the political arm of the loyalist paramilitaries?

Good grief, by my reckoning the No side have got every baddie known to man on their side;OO, BNP, UKIP, EDL, Britain First, NF, Tories, I think they even have the KKK, Hitler and the Daleks

We need to return to the reasons for wanting independence. For most people it is simply wanting self-determination, a sovereign state, to control our own destiny, culture and the history of our ancient nation and to build our own future. To be able to hold our heads up in the world with dignity, to have a vision for our country and our children

This brings us to the “too wee, too stupid” scenario. Those who actually want independence do not for a moment believe we are “too wee, too stupid” but this is the argument put up by those opposing us who have used economic negatives to sustain and promote the Union and have been able to convince large numbers that we are indeed an economic basket case.

To counter this we in turn are trying rather unsuccessfully to rebut those claims and try to produce alternative economic arguments which can never be proved until independence is achieved and are therefore easily refuted. There is no country in the world that has sought independence based purely on being economically better or no worse off and this is where we are going wrong. Independence will NEVER be won purely on economic grounds. Certainly we need to demonstrate that Scotland has what it takes to be independent.

We need to combine a vision for our future with pragmatism and passion and what could be. The YES movement did restore some pride in Scotland but currently passion is scarce in the SNP manifesto and has been reduced to meaningless sound bites.

Every country has poverty and deprived people and no country wants it but it is a fact of life. For many people in Scotland, life in the UK is not too bad at all and we will never win them over based purely on economic grounds.

That required extra ingredient is currently missing. Find it and we may well see the clamor for independence growing and civic squares being filled with like minded people.

Problem I always come back to re Irish reunification is where are all the neanderthals (DUP) going to go?

We know the answer sadly and all you have to do is draw a line between Glasgow and Stranraer & count the scumbags “exiled” from NI once you hit Cumnock.

So if Ireland reunifies we’ll get these cretins in Scotland.

Tick tock Nicola, time to be bold.

The English Tories are subtly religiously bigoted against Catholics, the Scottish Tories are openly religiously bigoted and the DUP are rampantly bigoted.

The Tories have no mandate to govern Scotland with 13 MP’s out of 59. The DUP have no place in Scottish politics and in the UK government. We cannot have an Ulster mob in power when they openly hate Catholics.

How in gods name did we get to this state.

Ayrshire is a hot bed of nasty Orange voters. Even worse the middle class Tories present a veneer of respectability. Underneath they are just scum in suits. Ayrshire is probably the worst place to live in Scotland if you are catholic.

Please sinn fein would you not consider taking the oath just to piss off those dup bigots?After all,it’s just words a meaningless gesture. Go on go on go on. You know you want to.

Well, watch the demand for Independence rocket as it becomes clear Scotland is to be ruled not just by the mental Tories but the even more mental DUP because you can bet your sweet Bippy this will prove to be massively unacceptable for a large section of our society

Once folk start realising what the DUP are it will dawn on them with rapidity these people are the Orange Lodge with a gun hanging from their sashes plus the fact they are complete and total dinosaurs

So Nicola Sturgeon was right from the start, vote Labour get Tory, but get DUP we never saw that one coming

Good point made about the tories working with the DUP, about how that prejudices the WM government position in regards to the power sharing agreement, should the Irish assembly be re-instated !

A new irish election under such a scenario could produce one hell of a shock of a result.

Chief of staff to tony blair basically saying it is madness to deal with the DUP,even Cameron refused to deal with them due to their stance on gay marriage for one example.

This was a good result, Westminster campaigns in Scotland over the last 3 elections have failed, Westminster 0, Scotland 3. That’s the reality.

The media screaming against indy2 at the same fever pitch as before the election is a sure indicator of just how rattled they are. Confusion reigns at UK gov level, tory holding hands with the DUP, bliss holding hands with Tories in Scotland, frankly none of them are capable of organizing a clusterf###.

Right now, if Nicola reverted back to her position just before the GE was called and announced whatever her next move was going to be regarding Indy 2, can you imagine just how apoplectic the unionists would be. Sitting back is one option,pouring petrol on the fire is another.

Progressive and inclusive politics, the tories and DUP?

As some have said, time to sit back and watch the chaos!

It won’t be long before Scotland is seen as being weak for letting the tories have a foothold and the tories come to exploit that.

Time for Nicola to take the gloves off permanently!

Mike Cassidy, much earlier, is the only person I have seen so far to see the problem EVEL will cause for a Conservative/DUP coalition. No politicians or pundits seem to realise that joining with a NI party will not help the Tories get through any legislation on health or education in England – and nether will their 13 Scottsh and 8 Welsh MPs.

Obviously it would affect Corbyn’s options to as all the SNP MPs as well as the Scottish and Welsh Labour ones would be barred. Ironic that uninteded consequences of Cameron’s ploy to limit the power of Scottish MPs will reduce the options for his successor.

I say to the SNP you are to blame for your reduction in the polls you never fight back at any time you just accept any thing that is thrown at you from the media and their snakes no backbone or courage if you refuse to fight you will never win any battles or wars imagine if William Wallace had acted like you ? God forbid yes you are to blame no one else for gods sake start fighting back I can think of many times you had stonewall cases you could have won Frenchgate etc. But no no comeback from you I am honestly beginning to doubt if you really want independence?

May can rely on all those blairite labour MPs whose hatred of Mr Corbyn Knows no bounds, they will as they have done in the past vote with the Tories or abstain, so her majority is probably much bigger than we imagine. Every little labour helps.

Where to start.

I sat through the night hoping the exit polls were wrong. That said, I liked Corbyns policies so was hoping he did well.

The SNP has to listen to the voters, put Indref 2 on the back burner and wait for the right time.

Not just Brexit. There is more austerity on the way. Scottish Tories at Westminster have 2 problems. EVEL and their allegiance. Is it to Scotland or the Tories. If I were Nicola, I’d be putting pressure on the Tories to make sure concessions are made. Holyrood should be give powers over fishing and farming as starters. Also hold Labour to its promise to push for a federal Scotland.

The Independence movement won’t go away. If anything the next 2 years will see it grow stronger as Brexit and domestic issues hits.

My advise, be patient.

Quote: The battered and bruised supporters of independence should grab a beer, take a break and enjoy the fireworks for a bit. unquote.

Good advice. Beer’s in the fridge already. This is seriously good advice (including the beer). Chillstep music, watch videos of train travel through mountains in Norway (Bergensbanen) and relaxxxxx…..my plan for tonight.

The time to take stock and re-evaluate where things are going and why the SNP lost support will come along soon enough. I also agree with letting things unfold – May has enough rope to hang herself and involving the DUP has just lengthened the rope further. Nothing for us to do for a while yet.

@Footsoldier

Indeed.
Best thing would be start every current interview by politely listening to negative ( no doubt) question and then saying “Hmm I hear you ask that but I’m more interested to ask the people of Scotland how they feel being controlled by the DUP who hold a ramshackle Tory outfit hostage to fortune?..There is only one way to escape this hell…wake up people!”

The SNP’s first order of business should be to demand an assurance that the Fiscal Framework agreement negotiated by John Swinney last year and will be honoured in full by the new government, including the twin principles of “no detriment” and the continuation of the Barnett Formula from the Smith Commission report.

If the DUP are going have more sweeteners as part of their deal we must ensure it is not at Scotland’s expense.

How many labour supporters does it take to get a tory elected !

Is the problem for Sinn Fein not that they would have to swear allegiance to the English Queen if they try to take up their seats at Westminster? But surely for the good of Ireland (and the rest of the British Isles) could they not take the oath tongue in cheek, and perhaps in Erse? or both English and Erse?

I think any party that loses 21 seats has to have a period of self reflection. However we must remember that the SNP won the election. 10 years ago 37% and 35 MP’s would have been considered a landslide and total mandate for indi ref.

The artificially high water mark of 56 and 49.7% of the vote. Meant that even losing 10 seats would have been considered a bloody nose. But it was a victory and everything was thrown at the SNP from the unionist truck. Including a combined unionist block to stop one party.

Imagine if Labour and the Libs and the SNP had all acted in unison to stop the Tories. The result would be totally different. The sad part is Labour in Scotland are just as fundamentality unionist as the Tories. They are red Tories.

The worst thing the SNP could do is to sit and lick their wounds and treat this as a defeat. They won! Get up and back in the ring and fight back from a position of strength.

I am pretty sure that opportunities will present themselves very soon. The Yes vote is still there and it isn’t going anywhere. Don’t believe the hype about indy ref being killed off. They want us to believe this.

A unique set of circumstances created a unique set of results. We have reached peak Tory. It was a fluke like 2015 for the SNP. Party support may have dropped but not support for indy ref 2.

Lets all dust ourselves down and prepare for the battle ahead. A week is a long time in UK politics much like Italy. This time next month does anyone think May will still be in charge?

My thoughts for what they are worth:

1. The SNP on TV must be more aggressive in defence – loath her or loath her Ruthie is effective at harnessing energy from votes because she is feisty and dominating.

Nicola and other SNP voices come across as too reasonable and at times quite wishy washy.

We have moved on – reasonable does not work so well now….. not with Ruthie and her friends in the BBC putting the SNP constantly on the spot. Be more bolshy for heaven sake – at least this would give the troop something to cheer because at the moment all the SNP leaders sound rather insipid

2. THE SNP must have something more positive to say about why an Independent Scotland would be a better place to live.

I am fed up of hearing independence is right because we get to make all own own choices.

Well firstly, that not really true, and more importantly, its terrible weak as a sound bite.

What I want is an exciting vision – tell people HOW Scotland would be better – we need BIG policy ideas now if we are ever to get over the line!!

Yeah, I’m off for a few pints tonight, first for a long time. Showed face in the H (and N), and that’s it for me. Need a wee break from business mayhem as well.

The SNP get it easy in that to swear an oath to the Queen for a Scot is to swear to her in her place as Scotland’s Head of State rather than of the UK as a whole.

@ WN says 4:13 pm :

“Is the problem for Sinn Fein not that they would have to swear allegiance to the English Queen if they try to take up their seats at Westminster? But surely for the good of Ireland (and the rest of the British Isles) could they not take the oath tongue in cheek, and perhaps in Erse? or both English and Erse?”

So to summarise you think they should lie to preserve the Union which they wish to dissolve (NI anyway)?

I suspect they won’t be taking you up on that one & if it was meant to be funny then you’re in the wrong business. You and your mates (lots of people today) suggesting the same things 😉

Any loss in Nicola Sturgeon’s popularity
Any acceptance that the SNP need to get on with the day job.
Any belief that the Tories won the Council Elections.

Is the product of Scotlands m.s.m

This needs to be countered.

As Geeo and Proud c referred to upthread we have to take this in context , ALL the unionist parties plus the arsehole msm made this an election based on an Indy ref, they went on from day 1 so no one was deluded

WHAT happened , the SNP still won 35 seats 2/3rd’s of the electorate . So in my universe that tells me that 2/3rd’s of Scotland’s voters want a referendum on indy

The other arseholes and their fellow conspiritors want to spin it otherwise but the logic is undeniable , this must be hammered home at every opportunity by us and the SNP SG

It is heartbreaking at the loss of the big beasties but now this allows them to be more vociferous and engaged in driving the yes movement

Nicola MUST not dilute her message she MUST press home the continued assault on society by the selfservatives, she cannot falter , she IS demonised no matter what she does , she must take the offensive and expose the dugs co-operation in LOSING Corbyn the election , by advising voters to support the selfservatives in Scotland

Labour got nearly the same vote share as 2015. 25% to 27%. SNP lost 13%. 50% to 37%. Tories gained 15% – from 14% to 29%. LibDems gained ? Increased turnout?

SNP went down from 1.4Million to 1Million. Still the highest vote share. No 16/17 year olds.

Indy support likely to rise because of Tories at Westminster.

On the progress to Independence the FM was going with a plan over the months after the Council elections to give both sides of the argument for it.

Theresa May tried to short circuit all that with the GE. We shouldn’t forget that.

The overwhelming number of SNP MPs were new to Westminster politics but learned quickly, building up experience of countrywide national government. Good for us.

They had two years to develop a national and international presence, witness Stephen Gethins with Europe, (that’s why he would have been a big scalp), they expected to have longer.

Because of theirs, and the FM’s work, Scotland is recognised.

Although it may have been a bit disappointing the same percentage of seats if won by the Tories would have resulted in a majority of 116 and been described as a massive endorsement of their policies.

The equivalent result in Scotland is being described as a massive failure by the BBC and a rejection of SNP policies. They have already had Davidson on acting as if the Tories had actually won the election in Scotland when in fact they are 22 seats behind.

Nothing has actual changed except the SNP majority is lower.

Now of course the Tories need to deliver something for the fishermen in the NE, the pressure is on them not the SNP.

10 DUp will dictate terms to Ireland. If SF stood the Tories will be in even more dire straits. Wouldn’t see the year out.

More domestically SNP HQ should look at all its procedures literally route and branch level. We could have done better at local elections and even at the GE.

Remember if an Indy vote 16-18year olds will vote as well as EU citizens.Lets watch the dog fight among the UKIP Tories..

Let’s watch the yoony NE fishermen drool over the Cullen skunk – They have lost due to the uk vote. Nae harm to you guys- nae grants from Scotland. Go to the London spins. Tank commander will pay you.

The scots must surly the the most spineless bunch of moaner that know their place

Without doubt the Scots deserve the government they get

Some fishermen were landing ‘black fish’. They broke UK Law. Some do not like paying UK tax. They overfished the seas rather than use bigger nets. Quotas have been increased because of negotiations involving the SNP to use bigger nets. People with £Millions of assets want to starve children and cut Education. The fishing industry could lose prime EU markets and migrant workers they rely upon. When the Euro went down they struggled to export. Lost money and markets. Many fishermen support the SNP.

“It taks a lang spain tae sup wi’ The Deil!”

Hope TMay has ordered in a new set of elongated cutlery.

The BBC does not win. The SNP won. Corbyn’s vote share increased. The BBC just annoys people, especially in Scotland. They switch off. A waste of £3.7Billion.

Finger on the ball, should off course be finger on the pulse, maybe Mair tired than I thought lol

Heart is sore.

Evil stalks the land.

Thank you Wingers and Rev Stu for the light and laughter =)

Don’t want to post the link, as the woman in question may not appreciate the publicity on such a popular site, but a woman on twitter says Douglas Ross, ouster of Angus Robertson, bullied her at Secondary School causing years of social anxiety and he’s never apologised.

Apprentice Darth Roothy convinces Scots voters she is the anti-establishment while her Sith Master Darth Mayhem fails to maintain complete control over her dominion.

I think we should always be using their Sunday name from now on. After all, we know they are just a bunch of Conservative & Unionists Not Tories in Scotland!

I heard Jonathon Powell, former Chief of Staff to Tony Blair, who also was the Chief Negotiator for the Good Friday agreement say that it would be a fatal mistake for Theresa May to hold hands with the DUP because since John Major, the British Government has had to be studiously neutral along with the Irish Government to hold the Agreement together and to avoid the return of the PIRA.

I have a feeling that Mayhem will undo all the good work and the men of violence might just re-surface. As Stu says the DUP want a hard border and no special status for NI which is the direct opposite of what SF want. This is not going to end well and it continues Theresa’s ability to create a boorach out of nothing.

Ken 500 At 2:38

“If folk can’t get off their backsides, to campaign, donate, support or deliver a few leaflets. It’s up to them.”

Except that in some cases, the people who didn’t do this were newly elected SNP Local Councillors who the local activists got out and supported in the Local Election campaign.

Right off to Spain for a week of R&R, recharge the batteries not too much popcorn hope to be eating a bit better than that. Don’t contact me unless Ruth Davidson joins the SNP or Ms May decides to go to war with Spain over Gibraltar:)

Some crowing today from a group about SNP getting a severe beating.

Middle aged and elderly men who have families and extended families who should be more worried about the next generations welfare and prospects, prefer to show what bigots they are.

I knew them and so I know why they want to see Scotland being humiliated, they are all Rangers supporters and some OO members.

This is the calibre of what the Tories attract. Absolute trash who don’t belong in a progressive decent country.

Shame on all who live in Scotland and voted Tory!

Bj these “people “and their families would rather live in pigshit under their beloved queen and union,rather than as proud citizens of an independent country. More to be pitied.

BJ,

And some who are on benefits will be first to piss and moan about it when they’re sanctioned by Westminster. Fuck them. (The ones that put us in this position that is). I have no track with self harmers. Bunch of skidmarks the lot of them.

Looking forward to May being added to the murals celebrating the heroes of the DUP. Apparently her favourite LP is one by Dire Straits in 1985.

I think I heard the DUP leader indirectly referring to the SNP as extremists, you have to laugh.

Truck, not track. Some of them who get money for being “Depressed”, but not too depressed to bang a fucking drum or play a flute whilst walking down a hot July Street.I hope they are the ones who fucking suffer. I have a few choice stories about some like that but I know one of them reads this and they know my nickname here. (I told someone who told someone, a long time ago). A Fellow “Nat” who has since voted Tory. FFS. But I’ll say this. Those that sow the wind will reap the whirlwind. Let them sing the sash on an empty stomach.