The blowhards
Readers, we’re honestly starting to believe that the entire Scottish media is some sort of elaborate Jeremy-Beadle-style prank.
Because the alternative – that they actually mean this stuff seriously – is just too bizarre and horrible to contemplate.
The motion passed in Holyrood yesterday was meaningless, and it only passed – very narrowly – because the SNP abstained on it. It’s in no way binding, and all decisions on whether to allow fracking or not will still rest with the Scottish Government.
Had Nicola Sturgeon told her MSPs to vote against the motion, it would have been crushed by a margin of around 60 votes. So it takes a spectacular reach to suggest that her decision not to do so represents her striking a blow against herself.
Rather impressively, The Times clears even that high bar of nonsensical drivel:
The words “in defiance of” are having to work quite incredibly hard there. The Scottish Government’s moratorium is designed to be a de facto ban, because an actual ban would almost certainly attract a legal challenge like the one that’s currently holding up the implementation of minimum pricing on alcohol.
In other words, having a moratorium rather than a ban is a move designed to ENSURE that fracking stays banned until evidence can be assembled that would defeat such a challenge. If yesterday’s motion had any power – which it doesn’t – it would make fracking MORE likely, not less.
The notion that “pressure” has been exerted by the vote is such a jaw-droppingly moronic flat-out lie that it makes us want to cry a little bit. The SNP is opposed to fracking, but if for some inexplicable reason it decided it wanted to allow it, it could pass any such legislation with a huge majority, as noted above, because the Tories enthusiastically back it and the Parliamentary arithmetic would therefore be in the region of 94-34.
In short, then: yesterday’s vote was meaningless, but notionally committed the Scottish Government to do what it’s already doing now, has been doing for some months, and wants to keep doing. If that’s the biggest blow Nicola Sturgeon has to deal with in this Parliament, she’ll be having a five-year party.
The Scottish press thinks its readers are imbeciles.
yes, but I saw the other day some ‘journalist’ tweeting that it’s the media’s job to hold the GOVERNMENT to account, which I assume involves never ever questioning any political parties not in government. Now, also please note that this does not appear to be the case in the UK as a whole where holding Jeremy Corbyn to account while ignoring electoral fraud (allegedly), possible illegal activities in Syria and Yemen etc of the Government party is a-ok.
So, in Scotland it works like this. I’m in the Labour party. I phone a journalist. I say, Nicola Sturgeon is being dishonest on fracking. Next day, front page news “Sturgeon accused…” Anyone questioning this MO is surely trying to shut down debate and trying to stop the great Scottish public knowing about the operations of Government. Chilling.
It seems that ‘Scottish’ Labour would commit hara-kiri if they thought they could then blame it on the SNP. Their only problem with that strategy is that they would be dead and it would be difficult for them to make any gains from their somewhat insane plan.
Goodnight labour. Thanks for all the pish.
The hatred of the msm towards snp and Nicola Sturgeon is terrible- why do they hate Scotland and its democratically elected leader so much – you have to conclude that their vested interests are being eroded and threatened and they are now so desperate they have to make up more snp baad stories.
They have told so many lies and spun so many half truths they are blinded by their own incompetence and now believe what they are saying. And they still wonder why circulation of msm is going down. Truth has been the biggest casualty and integrity the second.
If thats all we have to put up with from The Imbecilic journalists at the Herald we have 5 yrs to bury this Trumpet.
It’s pretty simple really. The Scottish media hate Scotland. End of.
Worryingly the unionist minority is beginning to live in a parralel universe where we seperstists get a completely differen newsfeed and opinions broadcast to us than them. I ve observed this a while now with the national and other papers (online is even more obvious, if you have a fake silent unionist account on twitter and one with the45 to listen into the chatter) and i wonder whether this is a deliberate attempt of misinformation. It basically denies a fair chunk of people access to unbiased real news.
It’s also interesting to note that comments are closed or not allowed on both those articles. Readers can draw their own conclusions as to why that should be the case.
Thankfully the Scottish Government can rely on Wings to defend their interests and hold the media to account.
I’d like to nominate Rev Stu as the SNP’s named person.
The power to start or stop Fracking was/is not devolved to Scottish Gov,
link to tinyurl.com
why did SNP abstain?
Unionist Journalists are the same as Unionist MSP’s, they have trotted out shite for so long they actually believe it themselves.
An embarrassment to Scotland the whole lot of them.
In time the majority of the Herald readers will be at Public Libraries. What would the circulation be if PL stopped taking it?
The SMSM will never let the truth get in the way of the SNPBad.
Fortunately, they have reduced themselves to such a laughing stock that their machinations have almost no influence.
You had to know this was coming down the line. Reporting Scotland last night on the same subject, Jackie Bird, barely hiding her glee, “over to Brian Taylor, Brian can we report this as being a defeat for the government”.
Yeah Jackie whatever makes you happy. Scottish “journalist” and newsreader my arse! puck, puck, puck, puckAAAAH
It’s not so much that media outlets are Unionist, but moronic as well.
I see Murph managed to blackball a Jewish anti Israel candidate for the Executive. Right wing to the last.
Tell me he was not recruited by the CIA when he vanished to the US for six weeks, whilst being a student “Revolutionary Communist” and Irish Freedom fighter.
Scot Finlayson
If a case when to court they cannot be accused of influencing a planning decision. The Scottish Government have to tread carefully within the planning laws. Read the Rev’s preamble which states it clearly.
Hugh Barclay
Josef Goebbels said in his diaries that if you keep telling the same old lie over and over, you in the end start believing it to be true.
Yet another spot on analysis Rev.
Thank goodness the red tories are not in charge.
Sick of the “Hold The SNP to Account” crap by both journalists and the other parties. Surely that’s the job of the electorate, who judged them competent a month ago.
Journalists should try investigating the all sides of an issue to inform their audience, and the other Parties (perhaps Greens excepted) should occasionaly offer costed alternative policies – as opposed to carefully vague ‘aspirational’ soundbites – for the voters to consider.
@Tonal
New Murphy’s Law.
Everything that can go wrong and even those that can’t will be blamed on the SNP .
The purpose of Magnus Gardham’s article is NOT to inform readers, it’s to MIS-inform them………. Not stupidity or a mistake ….. Calculated and above all desperate!
X_Sticks says:
2 June, 2016 at 9:33 am
It seems that ‘Scottish’ Labour would commit hara-kiri if they thought they could then blame it on the SNP.
Is that not what they’ve been doing for the last 10 years?
We don’t hear much of “a one party state” these days.
@ Scot Finlayson says: at 9:44 am
why did SNP abstain?
They could have voted with the Tories but can you imagine the headlines then?
“Ruth Davidson the new leader of the Scottish parliament strikes its first blow to the SNP”
“Kezia Dugdale accuses Nicola of standing shoulder to shoulder with the tories.”
Jackie Bird, “well Brian would it be fair to say that the SNP have finally come out as tartan tories.” puck. puck, puck puckAAAH.
Look on the bright side, the tories are so popular that even with the SNP abstaining they can’t win a vote.
Add this to the imbecilic recent actions of Fifes hereditary Labour Council which renders them now unable to vote against any planning applications and you find that the greens and the yoonies are together making fracking MORE likely to happen here in their desperate rush to shout SNP bad. Lunacy.
Another day, more lies, bullshit and perversion of the truth from the colonial media.
On any given subject, day in, day out, stooges like Gardham, Crichton et al now simply fill in the SNP bad template for the benefit of their Proud Scot readership. What a depressing existence that must be, repeating the same mantra over and over again with the anguished monotony of the insane.
Still, they seem to have come to terms with it, and they call it ‘journalism’ to boot.
Now I am very critical of abstention, but when it out outmaneuvers the opposition – that is what I call politics.
Isn’t it just typical that the media who claims to be ‘keeping the Government to account’, when are out thought revert to type. The truth is these self appointed purveyors of truth have lost their purpose. They still don’t realise that the old ways of doing politics which kept them waste deep in column inches is gone. The electorate are much more informed and politics in Scotland is much more sophisticated. The man on the street is way ahead of these political editors.
Marcia…… Both the Herald and the Retard have racks holding thousands of their papers at airports, free for passengers……they are do desperate to keep up circulation figures, they have to give the sh1t away.
This excellent blog post is well worth a read to understand the legal complexities of trying to impose an outright ban on fracking, and why the Scottish government approach is necessary.
link to talkingmince.wordpress.com
I think we are reaching the point in this ‘game’ when we can truthfully claim that anyone who reads newspapers sold in Scotland, and believes a single word printed in them, is ‘soft in the head’
Sorry, but c’mon!
IMV, the media, especially the SMSM, is full of inadequacy compensating control freaks. They get their kicks from persuading the public to do what they want. If that is not what the public want then that is a mega bonus. Some are so afflicted that even when they are not too bothered one way or the other on an issue, they will choose the side the public do not want just for the extra kicks.
So our anger should be tinged with a modicum of pity, when we can remember to apply it that is.
It’s The Scotsman….only a handful of old folk read it and it will soon be gone.
Seems daft to give it any publicity.
IMHO we are witnessing state sponsored propaganda (terrorism?) against the people of Scotland by the Londinium Establishment. Nothing more nor less, using all the states many arms of control, MSM, EBC, MI5 MI6 etc. As they say if you tell the mentally challenged the same lies often enough they will eventually believe them. God save the Queen! God help SCOTLAND.
By going along with this the Greens showed they’re just pathetically opportunist, posturing politicians baked in the same mould as Labour.
What is bizarre about this whole issue is that from the perspective of the paradigm of THE current economic consensus fracking makes no economic sense whatsoever.
Whilst it is true that arguments have been made that although this may be accurate for the medium and long term the extremely short term nature of casino capitalism suggests that as with so much else a small number of players believe they can make loadsamoney for themselves in the short term before the inevitable shit hits the rest of the community and society who will be left to pick up not just the clean up but also the uneconomic tab of fracking, I remain unconvinced.
Even with the recent recovery of oil prices to around the $50 a barrel mark the economics just does not add up. The obvious counterpoint to that is that the wide boys are betting on oil prices rising sufficiently to make fracking economic again.
This is going to be interesting to watch because the wide boys position is based on their own futures market projections of rises in oil prices which do not appear to have considered the reality on the ground which one can see from the satellite images here
link to zerohedge.com
and here
link to zerohedge.com
which show the number of giant oil tankers full of oil parked off the coast of places like Singapore and queuing up from the Red Sea round to the South China Sea waiting for the price of oil to go up to what the owners think is acceptable.
Given that each tanker full is costing $40,000 a day in tanker hire charges, which the owners of the oil are borrowing from the banks in the vain hope of the price going up sufficiently to cover that bet, the glut of oil which exists and which will continue to exist would suggest this is a tad optimistic.
Borrowing $40,000 a day per tanker from banks which are still recovering from 2008 and which have to rely on QE money printing from Central Banks is much like so many Fortune 100 companies such as Apple borrowing money to buy their own stock to keep their share price up. Not only do both examples take away money for investment they are both unsustainable.
The SNP need to focus on the argument that fracking is and will continue to be uneconomic on the criteria of those who have hoisted themselves on the voodoo economics of neo liberalism to prevail on this issue.
It’s not the Scottish Gov that needs to be held to account it’s the 2nd rate reject lars in the Press and Opposition. They are a total disgrace. May 2017.
“a jaw-droppingly moronic flat-out lie”
Well, it certainly is ‘a jaw-droppingly flat-out lie’. Those making this up know exactly what they are doing – just part of Project SNPBaaad.
However, they make the assumption that a percentage of their readers will believe their crap, perhaps in that respect it is indeed moronic. There are no signs that after years now, SNPBAaad actually has any impact.
All this vote really indicates is that the opposition is actually more split on fracking than the government is. After all the largest single option chosen by the MSPs was to wait for actual evidence…
John
The fundamental problem is the the Scottish press and the BBC are correct in thinking that most of the population are gullible imbeciles because they are! Those who are smart enough to appreciate what is actually happening can be divided into those motivated by self-interest and those who actually give a hoot about those less fortunate or well-off than themselves. So the media can spout whatever the Establishment wants as most who read it or watch it either will accept it without question or don’t care or haven’t the wit to appreciate what they they are being fed is propaganda not news.
I fully but not blindly support the SNP in its’ quest for home rule but when we get it if they do not fundamentally change the structure of society by nationalising the banks taking all land into public ownership and redistributing wealth then it will all have been a waste of time to substitute one elite for another who will still pull the strings of politiians.
Has anyone been reading the *thoughts* of Anas Sarwar on Twitter these last 24 hours? The man is beneath contempt.
I watched a large chunk of this debate and all I heard from SLAB was drivel in the main. I believe, and you covered the point above, they should have listened a bit more carefully to what Stuart Stevenson, MSP, said when he warned that by banning fracking now would open the door to legal challanges and we would not have an evidence based case against it. SLAB are just a bunch of NUMPTIES.
Auld Rock
Anyone know when the Herald has to reveal their circulation figures – now that it is considering itself a second rate parochial paper?
May it wither and die – which is better than it deserves.
Where does The Herald, The Times etc get these stories? Is it from a press release issued by the Labour Party?
Surprised by the list of most popular stories?
link to archive.is
Oh look at NO6 on the list. Another press release from Willie Rennie!
There seems to be an elementary flaw in the schooling of journos.
– It is the task of parliament to hold the government to account, and
– it is the task of the voters to hold the parliamentarians to account, and
– it is the task of the party members to hold the party leaders to account, and
– it is the task of the press to keep the public informed of the goings-on.
Amateurish is the friendliest thing you can say about the Scottish press.
Just a small correction. The SNP is officially “deeply sceptical” about fracking, rather than being explicitly opposed to it. This position, as anyone other than the British media will recognise, is a bit of legal caution. Should the issue go to court, the Scottish Government would be seeking to portray itself as a dispassionate agent acting solely on the basis of evidence and public opinion.
Curiously, those who are explicitly opposed to fracking – or who pretend to be for purposes of political point-scoring – want to prevent the Scottish Government assembling the evidence against fracking that they claim is clear and unequivocal.
Stranger still, they also want to stop the Scottish Government holding a public consultation despite supposedly being confident of massive opposition.
One could be forgiven for thinking that their actions were entirely politically motivated and really have nothing whatever to do with stopping fracking in Scotland.
Cheer Up 🙂
“Never heed whit the hoodies croak for doom”
“The words of the prophets are written on the winged walls and the tenement halls”
“Blawing thro the Great Glen of the warl the day”
😉
Dorothy Devine: I don’t know about it being parocial their most popular story is about something that happened in Texas!
This merely underlines that our opponents are not the other political parties in Scotland – they’re done – but the media and those who own and run it.
Do Labour support a moratorium or fracking at Westminster but a ban in Scotland? The usual split decision. LibDem? As clear as sludge. Stirrers.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The blowhards Readers, we’re honestly starting to believe that the entire Scottish media is some […]
Given up on MSM, just a joke institution and so called reporters wouldn’t get a job in Billy Smarts circus in the clown department.
Well done wings again but I cant understand why the SNP dont put out a clarification statement and its about tine they funded their own TV channel on the internet to dispel all the pish !!
As utterly frustrating as this whole thing is, it seems like a win-win for the SNP – aside from in the alternative reality the media are keen to create and inhabit.
Essentially, by siding with the Greens to try and look even more left wing than the SNP on fracking (which the SNP are already clearly against and have managed to prevent totally in Scotland), Labour have managed to make Scotland clearly and obviously the most anti-fracking part of the UK. More of that kind of behaviour over the next 5 years and they’ll create exactly what their narrative demands doesn’t exist – a Scotland that’s far more left wing than the UK as a whole and travelling in an entirely different direction. That can only be good for independence, especially if SLAB decide to have “different” policies here on reserved issues than their head office in London has.
I have a distinct feeling we’ll eventually reach independence only when SLabour not only actively support it, but the media can somehow play it as a “blow to the SNP” that Labour have won independence.
Firstly I am against fracking.
However in my opinion what we are seeing from Labour is nothing more than naked electoral political opportunism on its part.
And by passing this motion on banning fracking Labour is not only attempting to position itself as the party that opposes fracking in Scotland.
But also hoping people fall for it as well and believe that fracking won’t happen here in Scotland.
@ Dave McEwan Hill
“This merely underlines that our opponents are not the other political parties in Scotland – they’re done – but the media and those who own and run it”.
I have been saying this for a long, long time. One of a few very rare cases where shooting the messenger is precisely what’s required.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
“our opponents are not the other political parties in Scotland – they’re done – but the media”
Your right. I do think we have reached that stage.
The Unionist parties haven’t been destroyed but are now largely impotent. The media, and particularly broadcast, are the last remaining defensive line.
No mention of this in their article.
link to mewsingoutloud.wordpress.com
We know what Labour and their Unionist media cronies are playing at but surely the Greens are totally against fracking? Why would they vote in such a way and put an ultimate full ban on fracking in jeopardy or have I got this wrong? Did the Greens vote with Labour?
link to archive.is
Oh look Mariano Rajoy getting involved in the EU Ref!
Do these 400,000 ex pats living in Spain get a vote?
What about the people living in Gibraltar?
Will the Spanish-Gibraltar border be closed again?
There were loads of ex pats living in Spain before Spain was in the EU.
O/T
Professor John Robertson and the ‘Attainment Gap’.
”The highest attainment for mathematics was in Scotland (84)
Surely, just a wee smile is justified here? Have some more:
The distribution of performance in mathematics showed that there was some degree of variation around the mean score for mathematics in all countries, as would be expected. The size of this variation indicates the extent of the gap between low and high attaining pupils. The OECD average score was 301 points. The range was wider than this in England and Northern Ireland and narrower in Scotland and Wales. The highest difference of 316 was found in England. (87)
So, in the UK context, Scotland has a narrower attainment gap than England. Further, clear evidence of this is:
Scotland had the lowest percentage of pupils working below Level 1 in mathematics (4.9 per cent). This compares with the OECD average of 8.0 per cent. In England and Northern Ireland the proportion of pupils working at the lowest level of proficiency in mathematics was close to, or the same as, the OECD average (8 and 8.6 per cent respectively). (88)
Scotland had the narrowest range of attainment and the scores of their lowest achieving pupils were much higher than those in the rest of the UK or the OECD on average. (99)
The above can be found in more detail at:
link to gov.uk
‘They’ve had enough’, you’ll be saying but remember this is the England we so often find BBC Scotland fawning over and throwing at us deluded independence supporters, so here are more examples:
Young people in England are the most illiterate in the developed world with many students graduating with only a basic grasp of English and maths, an in-depth analysis by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has found.
The OECD report rated English teenagers aged 16 to 19 the worst of 23 developed nations in literacy and 22nd of 23 in numeracy..
link to ibtimes.co.uk
I spotted this headline screaming out of the Herald this morning and had came to the same conclusion as the Rev that it was total pish before I’d even finished skimming it. As the vote could only have included the 3 “minor” parties (and I include Labour here), I immediately deemed it irrelevant.
I made the automatic assumption that the lying headline was there purely to continue the relentless flow of anti-SNP media bile. Keeping the pressure on, attempting to brainwash the more gullible in the Scottish populace that we have an inept government.
Hats off as usual to the Rev for highlighting yet another example of our downright dishonest media.
The incoherent opposition polices. Tories ban coal production in the UK, tax North Oil out but support fracking. Importing more Oil, Gas and coal. Putting up the Defict and the debt. They have banned onshore wind turbines in England. They are spending £20Billion a year (for ten years?) on HS2 and Hinkey Power Station, both disasters waiting to happen with absolutely no business case. Environmental nightmares. Two tidal barrages would suffice.(£20Billion) Improvement in the present rail sector would suffice. There will be more road journeys in the congested south and more expensive flights in the North.
Do Labour support a moratorium or fracking at Westminster but a ban in Scotland? LibDems spent £Billions building two coal fired Stations in the North of England.
There has been coal and gas production in the Central belt of Scotland since the 1900’s. Westminster refused permission for CCS at Longannet and Peterhead. Losing Scotland £Billions. Westminster indecision lost Scotland the opportunity for £Billions of EU renewable Grants.
Scotland is on of the most Green countries in Europe and produces a surplus of fuel and energy. (25%) but pays a higher cost, despite being nearer the source, because it is colder. A tax on the Scottish economy.
O/T
Another article from Professor John Robertson:
”Are the disadvantaged in Scotland actually less likely to enter higher education than the disadvantaged in England? UCAS admit they don’t actually know. I doubt it very much.”
”The problem is that there is rather less sub-degree HE in the non-Scottish parts of the UK than in Scotland but most of what there is appears to be recruited through UCAS; meanwhile in Scotland there’s a much larger amount of HE provided in FE colleges, pretty much all at sub-degree level, which is not recruited through UCAS at all…. Indeed, it’s the HE provided in colleges which gives Scotland the edge in overall participation rates…..So to use UCAS data to compare the percentage of disadvantaged young people recruited onto degree-level courses you ought to take a little bit off both sets of figures as in both nations whatever sub-degree provision is recruited through UCAS is likely to be biased towards the most disadvantaged. How much should be deducted unfortunately would be a complete guess from the available data. But there is still likely to be a large gap between the two nations for disadvantaged students – there just isn’t enough sub-degree level activity in England to make that much difference. However, to compare the percentage of disadvantaged young people in any form of HE you need to adjust the Scottish figure upwards significantly. The gap would probably disappear completely – Scotland might even do better than England.”
link to newsnet.scot
it’s interesting that we now have two recent examples of the SNP’s competence contrasting with SLAB’s naivety and incompetence. First we had the ferries contract won by CalMac where SLAB (aided and abetted by the RMT) put the contract in jeopardy and liable to legal challenge by claiming that they had brought political pressure to bear on the government and had influenced the decision. If that were true, Serco could, with some justification, have challenged the whole process and the government could have been forced to go back to square one of the bidding process.
Now, we have the farce yesterday in parliament where, if the government were to do what SLAB voted for (and which technically parliament decided) then the likelihood of fracking starting would actually increase because of the risk of legal challenge. So we have the SNP government quietly and competently working away in the interests of Scotland contrasted with SLAB recklessly putting the interests of Scotland second to what they perceive as their political interests.
The thing is that even in this, SLAB are incompetent. Because the people of Scotland can see through their cynical manoeuvring. So although they think they are being ultra-smart, actually they are consigning themselves to the scrapheap of politics.
It’s all quite entertaining really.
@Dave Hansell – 10:13 am
To put the shipping in perspective, I have a photo taken in 2010 from the top of the 57 storey Marina Bay Sands Building in Singapore. In this one photo, taken looking eastwards up the coast, I count almost 100 tankers at anchor. There were probably at least as many if not more looking in the other direction. There are always a large number of tankers in these places.
@ Ruby
Yes we do get a vote, as long as we haven’t been here for more than 15 years. Want to take a guess how many of the *Brits* over here are planning to vote? You couldn’t make it up. Some turkeys really do vote for Christmas.
“By going along with this the Greens showed they’re just pathetically opportunist, posturing politicians baked in the same mould as Labour.”
To be fair, the Greens have a principled, consistent anti-fracking stance, right across the UK. They’re quite right to stick to their principles, and their own amendment wasn’t an issue. It was the Labour further amendment that was the issue, and the Greens shouldn’t have to back down from their long held principles because Labour are playing dangerous political games with something they genuinely care about.
Re;Winifred McCartney@9.37am
The media, ie britnat establishment and their pals residing outside of these islands, ‘hate’ the SNP and Scotland because they love their gravy train, simple really. Not only that, they sure damn well want to make sure that Scotland stays shackled to their beloved UKok at any cost.
Remember they have killed and started wars for oil and god knows what else, anything they want really. They also excel in ridding the world of (perceived and portrayed )rogue dictators, who may just happen to want a fair system in their country, but who happen to have oil, gold, and other minerals and land etc, that the pretendy democracies quite fancy having for themselves thank you very much.
Unfortunately, Scotland is also forced to house nuke subs and wmds, so the state media and others are under clear instructions to destroy anyone getting in their way regards that. It’s just that they can’t go shooting anyone, or fake suicide, or poisoning anyone as it would be far too obvious and people might just notice that, so instead they use propaganda to demonise, and to get into the minds of the people, the idea that the SNP, and those who voted for them, are really demons in disguise. Clever clogs those employed in the state run media you know.
Including mature students (20%?) more students in Scotland from deprives backgrounds go to University. 31%. 29% from wealthier backgrounds. Now Scottish students can access a full loan that will increase. The recent figures haven’t come through yet.
20%? of Scottish students are the wealthy from elsewhere getting a subsided education because of biased admissions policies. Funding would be better spent on the early years and giving teachers training in additional needs and (part-time) College places for vulnerable people.
92% of pupils go on to FE or apprenticeships. 100,000 aprenticeships have been funded. A skilled trade/occupation can provide a comfortable living.
The real Labour party, you know the one in England that’s in charge of the Scottish region number 9 branch office is in favour of Fracking so they tell the wee Scotch branch to get on with pretendy opposing it in Scotland by trying to force the SNP into a ban they don’t have the power to enforce so the fracking companies can then go to court to have the ban overturned due to lack of wee Scotch government competence to place a ban on a UK Guv granted licence
In the meantime the Wee Scotch branch office thinks it makes them look like the good guys to the electorate and the SNP gets all the blame
And if the SNP were to ban it and it was overturned in court they look incompetent and the wee Scotch Labour branch office gets to say, they, the SNP should have known that, those Baad SNP people
The Flaw in the Wee Scotch branch office Labour plan
The popularity of the Labour party is so low for a very good reason, they keep treating the voters as if they’re stupid, trouble is, the voters are learning, so there are less and less stupid ones and they’ve caught on to the Numpty strategy which is deployed as Labours number one tactic
Neil Finlay’s acting lessons don’t work, he’s just the worst faux outrage pretender in the world but along with Jackie (the pie woman) Baillie they are the epitome of exactly who the Labour party are and they haven’t seemed to have realized that all the MSPs Scotland wanted rid of back sitting in Holyrood again will only serve to irritate Scotland even more
And the Labour party have the cheek to complain about the House of Lords and how terrible it is to have folk foisted upon us we never voted for and they are part of the law making process
How many Labour MSPs actually stood and won a constituency vote?!, so they know perfectly well nobody likes them and STILL they don’t care
Some folk call this democracy, I don’t, what’s the point of political parties telling you what they stand for if when we vote for them to do those things the people we don’t vote for set out and team up to stop them and then try to blame them for not doing what they said they would
That’s dictatorship by the unelected of the elected, it’s crazy!!
I also wonder if Labour politicians are totally thick
or do they have to work at it?
Here’s what happened on fife council on May 21 2016
Several councillors chose to ignore advice given to them prior to the debate on the issue of opposition to fracking.
councillors were told that they should not say anything that indicates they have a closed mind to the consideration of such applications at future committees
or council meetings.
The chief executive Steve Grimmond said members should “consider therefore whether they wish to preface their remarks in the debate with a statement to the effect that they recognise that any applications that come to the
council as planning or other regulatory authority would have to be treated on their own merits”.
Thirty-two of the 59 councillors who voted in a roll call vote specifically decided not to preface their remarks, and could potentially mean their hands may be tied if and when any future planning consent is sought.
A total of 24 councillors did preface their remarks, while only the council’s three-strong Tory group voted against the Labour-led motion.
What is the point? Gardaham Sanderson Clegg Bird and Brewer, and the whole bought and paid for murky little Unionist propaganda machine cut and paste comments on Pro Self Determination sites like this and attach them as evidence to their foreign owned bosses at Annual Appraisal time in order to get their performance bonus.Thirty pieces of silver to betray their nation with lies.
They are thick skinned old hacks who give not a toss for Scotland. It’s all about money and sooking up to their masters, who are US based, or hunkered down in the Holy London Empire.
By their standards, in the wee sma’ hours of self doubt, they must genuinely believe that if they were good enough, they’d be down in London Town clacking away about Prince Harry’s latest Charidee Do, and the fact that it is colder now than at Christmas.(That’s the SE of England, our neighbour to the South.)
I urge readers not to access their sites. An element of the impetus for the arrantly stupid SNP BAD headlines is to snare folk into accessing their sad and pathetic little online offerings, clickbait. Or perhaps they really are as thick as pig shit?
Labour in Scotland is dead, and this is amply demonstrated by this vainglorious Fracking vote.
Patrick Harvie needs to get a reality check.
The legal and political option for the Greens was to abstain, and publicly decry Labour and Rennie’s Chancers for the cynical and idiotic waste of Parliamentary time for the stunt it was.
I wonder if UNISON and Ineos workers are happy with Labour?
Dugdale, Mara, Lamont, Findlay, Gray, and Kelly;
The dregs of the dregs of Tony Boom Boom Blair’s Red Tories in Scotland.
£1200 a week for glugging up the works.
Idiots.
I thought we paid parliamentarians to vote. Not abstain.
The Scottish press thinks its readers are imbeciles.
Its just another day of ongoing Sturgeon and SNP smearing, trying to associate in our minds everything bad with the SNP. Yesterday was a horrible example and this dire fracking stuff’s just part of their UKOK five year plan.
UKOK media aren’t going anywhere and they know how to destroy brands, people and political parties like the SNP.
Do they plot away with SLabour? Why not.
This is exactly why I have given up on The Herald and now only read The National and Sunday Herald.
Oh Dear. Dearie Dearie Me. This is rather pathetic posturing by the third party in Scotland trying to show that they still matter. The Greens’ actions are understandable (they are Greens after all – its what they do!) and they have to live up to their followers’ expectations, even if Patrick Harvie fully understands the implications of Labour’s amendment. The Greens can be naïve at times, but their hearts are in the right place and they have matured quite a bit over the years as they learn how to do grown-up poliutics. Labour MSPs, however, are just thick and behave like spolit bairns. They seem to develop policy on the hoof, change continually, and then press on, with no thought whatsoever about unintended consequences. The bitter experience of the last 9 years ought to have taught them something, but sadly they seem to have no capacity to learn. I guess they lost too much of their most capable people in the routs of 2011 and 2015 (not that they had a great deal before then) and they just don’t have any competent people left to represent them.
Greenpeace: What energy interests do the House of Lord’s Economic Affairs Committee have?
Note that Baroness Noakes seems to have stepped down from the Committee since the spotlight was shed on her.
”Baroness Noakes holds shares with a number of firms with interests in shale gas (Shell, BP Group and BP) and British Gas owner Centrica. Centrica has invested in Cuadrilla exploratory operations in the North East of England and is a major beneficiary of government policy on fracking.”
This is the Committee that passes fracking licences, in the HUNDREDS already, and are constantly calling for fracking to be made an urgent National priority. They say ”shale gas can bring substantial benefits to the economy, to National energy security and to the environment.”
I say it’s more about lining their own pockets …. again.
They’re not too concerned about which companies get licenses either ‘Chinese state owned oil firm, CNOOC, is linked to allegations of human rights violations in Tibet and Myanmar’.
link to energydesk.greenpeace.org
Government issues more fracking licenses to companies linked to tax havens
link to greenpeace.org.uk
@Dave Crawford
I agree with you; there are far more people who swallow MSM crap than some of us like to think. However, on a positive note, I think the younger generations (I’m thinking under 30) are a bit less susceptible to MSM propaganda. Also, in my job I have access to a lot of young(ish) minds and I like to think that they see the UK media (including the ‘Scottish region’) in a very negative light after becoming more acquainted with it/them (the media). I don’t have as big an audience as wings but I’m doing my own little bit; propaganda dies as education and critical thinking increase. I have a dream that one day there will be journalists in the UK.
@ Cath says at 11:40 am …. ”To be fair, the Greens have a principled, consistent anti-fracking stance, right across the UK. They’re quite right to stick to their principles, and their own amendment wasn’t an issue. It was the Labour further amendment that was the issue, and the Greens shouldn’t have to back down from their long held principles because Labour are playing dangerous political games with something they genuinely care about.”
Cath I totally agree with you when you say ”to be fair, the Greens have a principled, consistent anti-fracking stance, right across the UK.”
What I can’t understand is why they are not PUBLICLY supporting Nicola Sturgeon in relation to the moratorium. I just don’t get it. Are they playing funny bu**ers too?
As Stu says ”having a moratorium rather than a ban is a move designed to ENSURE that fracking stays banned until evidence can be assembled that would defeat such a challenge. If yesterday’s motion had any power – which it doesn’t – it would make fracking MORE likely, not less.”
If Stu knows that and we know that surely the Greens know that?
Dr Jim at 12.00 p.m.
I agreed with all of your post until the last two paragraphs. It is democratic – it is quite clear that a majority of people in Scotland voted for parties which do not want to see fracking happening anytime soon if ever. And that is what is happening. If the amendment had mandated the government to ban fracking, Sturgeon would have deployed her troops to oppose it, thus eliminating the risk of a legal challenge, because with SNP votes being deployed the motion would have failed.
If all the opposition parties can get their act together and unite on a common cause then they might be able to vote the government down. The legislation about behaviour at football grounds is the most likely candidate for this at the moment, although the motivation of the parties on this is questionable at least. But if they do combine and beat the government, that is not undemocratic – the opposition do after all represent a slightly higher share of the vote in the election than the SNP. So we may not like it if the government get beaten, but we cannot say it will be undemocratic.
The good news is that with a SLAB MSP being presiding officer, the opposition have a majority of one if they all pull together. The chances of them being able to co-ordinate themselves to the extent needed to beat the government are not high.
I didn’t find it difficult to stop buying the Herald from a few years ago. It took me a bit longer to get out of the habit of checking their headlines online. Since the Holyrood election in May even that habit is now broken. Glasgow Herald R.I.P.
Don’t worry about it. My nawbag, tory voting, Union-flag waving, Daily Mail reading friend started a conversation with me this morning with “I actually agreed with Nicola this morning….a moratorium on fracking sounds fine to me – not sure about fracking either way, but keeping the moratoriaum till we know its safe is a sound idea.”
So there you are, the MSM shite is failing to hit even the easiest of targets.
By the way, its generally agreed that we won’t know its safe at any particular site until its been fracked and the local school hasn’t fallen into a big hole, or Hogganfield Loch drains away overnight.
Another excellent response
derekbateman.scot/2016/06/02/a-wee-tremor/
What I can’t understand is why they are not PUBLICLY supporting Nicola Sturgeon in relation to the moratorium. I just don’t get it. Are they playing funny bu**ers too?
I refer my honourable friend to the thing I gave earlier. UKOK hackdom have five years to destroy Sturgeon and the SNP. Would you stand with and next to that kind of shit/firestorm?
Its a great time to be alive for Scottish Greens, Slab’s a clown show, Ruth MacTatcher’s the new BBC tory goddess and LibDem era is probably over now. 2020/21, there’ll be rich pickings for parties not tarred and set alight by our ongoing BBC led media SNP evil monstering.
Cath at 11.40
Disagree, Cath. Are the Greens showing us they don’t understand the legal issues involved here.
Or are they just flexing their wee muscles
The deceit of the *impartial* broadcast media on the subject of fracking, is breathtaking!
There are TWO unassailable facts, about fracking in Scotland, that are never mentioned.
Firstly…Energy Policy is NOT devolved to Holyrood.
Secondly…the British government has already issued licences to frack the entire eastern central belt.
Heeadtracker says:
‘It’s a great time to be alive for Scottish Greens’
Too right, they can say and do what they like with impunity, shouting from their heaped pile of beans, in their homemade waistcoat.
Last night, I had to tell a Green supporter that energy is NOT devolved, to correct his shite assertion. This is typical, and they do as much damage as RISE for spreading muck.
I hope Andy Wightman has disposed of that waistcoat humanely. Absolutely no excuse for that level of insult to our eyes.
I’d suggest the Rev. has made a cross for himself with this site but that might be considered tasteless. Things aren’t gonna change though, until Scotland regains its statehood.
Yoons are goona yoon. The corporate media is going to be right-wing and self-serving (anti-democratic & anti-Scottish). Oil execs are gonna get boners at the thought of getting a head start on extracting natural gases, in unconventional ways.
Tell you what though. I reckon we are a whole lot closer to independence, compared to September 2014. Funny that. The overwhelming and long-standing demands for greater Scottish autonomy, simply have not been listened to by Westminster. Two electoral wipe-outs for the Yoons, was the result.
@ Better Together
Better keep polishing. 😉
The unelected Press telling lies. Regurgitated lies. BBC regurgitated wasted public funds.
Anyone believe the education figures? Are they trying to say only 40/60% of people in Scotland can read. What a load of absolute nonsense. Yet Scotland raises more pro rata than the rest of the U.K. £54Billion (with less Oil revenues). The rest of the UK £42Billion (pro rata). They borrow and spend more. £75Billion + £20Billion black hole) = £95Billion.
Scotland has one of the best education systems in the world. Older parenthood leads to more children with additional needs. Teachers need more training in additional needs. 92% of pupils go on to FE or apprenticeships. More is spent per pupil (pro rata) in Scotland on pupils than the rest of the U.K. Scotland has a better education system than the rest of the U.K.
£2Billion deal with China. Alexander of Falkirk for electrified buses.
There is still £10Billion+ bring spent in Scotland on Westminster policies the majority do not want. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Trident/illegal wars, ‘loss leading’ drink, £3Billion loan repayments Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend, £3Billion? Tax evasion etc.
O/T quick economics question for anyone who can help me. I am engaged in a long running discussion on a unionist blog. The deficit to GDP ratio is the battleground an I am trying to calculate the effect on tax revenues when spending is made in Scotland rather than rUK.
For example if the spending level remained exactly the same (which is their starting point or rather end point) in year 1 of indy how do you estimate the positive effect on revenues for said year. Moving £x billion from UK spending on shared institutions and services from outwith Scotland to within Scotland is obviously not neutral. There are one off setup costs of course but if you take £3 billion MOD spending and spend an identical amount on defence post indy this (to my layman’s understanding) represents a vast increase to revenues in all sorts of areas from income tax to vat to Corp tax etc etc.
I guess I could try and take an average of revenue per £ of public expenditure in Scotland and use that as the basis of the additional expenditure moved from rUK to Scotland to give an estimate- the effect would be accumulative.
I am just struck by the idea that this dead expenditure there turning into live expenditure here would be massively transformative and I want to try and estimate what effect this would have.
No response will satisfy of course but I’m trying to gain a better understanding of how these things work.
It could actually be some shrewd politicking from the Greens; they would know SNP were going to abstain and know the reasons for it, so voting against maintains their image of being principled among the electorate and demonstrates a willingness to oppose the Tories. I’m sure they’re smart enough to realise the emptiness of the vote at this time but PR-wise it was a decent move as Slab will take most of the abuse.
…we don’t have a Scottish media!
instead we have The Daily Record, The Herald, The Scotsman etc which are as Scottish as “hey jimmy bunnets”
…and worst of all BBC Scotland – The Harry Lauder of modern media.
Even though i disagree on abstaining by doing so the SNP just showed what a joke the opposition are,Labour played for suckers once more by the blue tories.
This was no more than a crude attempt by certain special interest groups in the UK to circumvent the moratorium and bring a legal challenge to it.
Everybody played for chumps by the Scottish government this vote meant nothing it cant overturn or replace the existing legislation,by abstaining the SNP just killed this stone dead with a majority in parliament for the existing moratorium.
Better luck next time westminster oh wait there wont be a next time tough luck trougher scum two can play at that game.
Dont be so hard on the greens on this i am still undecided if they knew what they were doing by voting to win a ban knowing the SNP would abstain would punt this straight into the long grass.
And now the MSM have to go on full britnat we won victory parade because actually they just got thumped,never underestimate our Nicola she is one smart cookie a lot smarter than those westminster eejits.
Haha all the blue tories will be crying in their share portfolios today,see blue tories we told you the red tories have lost the plot completely and are whirling about screaming exterminate SNPbad and now its your turn,oh and you are still not getting to frack Scotland ya bams.
I hope Andy Wightman has disposed of that waistcoat humanely. Absolutely no excuse for that level of insult to our eyes.
He’s worth reading on land reform and very big money causing so many problems facing Scotland. One way of tackling these problems in rural Scotland is… Scottish independence.
Are Scottish Greens up for indy or are they deciding to develop as a party within D’Hondt Holyrood, picking off those 2nd list vote seats from the likely carnage left behind by our tory BBC led media freak out in the 2020’s?
Rancid The Graun really likes them and that’s all you really need to know. Graun rewards the Scottish Greens with a pat on the head for land reform legislation. FT gives more balanced story.
link to archive.is
link to ft.com
But what and who’s been completely excluded from both the above Britnat tory outfits?
Its starts with S and ends with P:D
R-type Grunt says:
2 June, 2016 at 11:40 am
@ Ruby
Yes we do get a vote, as long as we haven’t been here for more than 15 years. Want to take a guess how many of the *Brits* over here are planning to vote? You couldn’t make it up. Some turkeys really do vote for Christmas.
Ruby replies
I can’t guess!
How many are going to vote for Brexit because there are too many foreigners in the UK? 🙂
@X_Sticks:
“It seems that ‘Scottish’ Labour would commit hara-kiri if they thought they could then blame it on the SNP. ”
They have committed hara-kiri and they are blaming it on the SNP for deluding Scottish voters.
Westminster have already fucked Scotland over as far as support for retrofitting carbon capture technology to existing power stations. Wonder what they’d do to stop a new build better located for fracked gas? Not to mention the unadulterated madness of having a major processing plant fed from gas shiped from America.
Taking it at face value the SNP morotorium is simply asking for evidence that, at least where it’s proposed in Scotland, fracking will have no damaging environmental impact. From an idealogical rabid treehugging perspective you can see why Greens might want to avoid having it shown to be safe in some cases. Labour are simply chancers.
Fracking – the economic case.
It costs over $100 to produce a barrel of oil by fracking. Even at 2012 prices it made no economic sense. Except it creates enough ‘look over here’ activity, so that the people of America won’t notice they’ve used up all their traditional oil reserves. Which in turn stops them looking at their national debt and panicking.
The companies set up to do the fracking are being funded by Federal bank loans, which for some strange reason, the Federal Bank are in no rush to call in. Again a flurry of financial activity, like the sub prime loan merry go round.
But if you take a step back – in the same way the multi national conglomerate companies do, or the hedge funders and keep in mind that 25% of the American economy is Health care, and then look at the serious long term ill health fracking appears to be causing to the residents close by, then suddenly you have a circular economy. A very dark, nasty one, but none the less a circular economy.
And, perhaps not quite so profitable, but when the loans are called in, and the fracking companies go bust, it will be then that the environmental damage is deemed ready to be cleaned up, with none other than the tax payer to foot the bill, and the big companies on hand to offer up the machinery to do it.
I don’t think for a minute that in the same year that the World Health Organisation announces that England no longer has a national health
Service, fracking is given the go ahead in Yorkshire, and I have no doubt their plans for Scotland are only on hold.
Thanks for all the posts folks, keep on keeping on. Aye yes for aw that.
@TD
I suppose it would depend on the definitions of what is democracy when you consider a few of the MSPs who were given seats due to the list system had just been rejected by the voters in the previous election
I can understand the need for representation and can accept a system that I don’t agree with but to be forced to accept previously rejected and unwanted people like Anas Sarwar sticks in my throat every bit as much as being forced to accept folk like Alistair Darling, George FFoukes, Michelle Mone and Baron Hee Haw of Dumpty
My sense is that to keep the list system as it is and to make it somehow more reasonably fair by not allowing this gaming of the list to re introduce the same people over and over again could disenchant the voters and create apathy
by giving the impression of, it doesn’t matter what you vote for, or against, you’re getting what we decide whether you like it or not
That’s why we all hate the House of Lords
BTW Andy Wightman will be reasonably attired in the future I’m informed, I wasn’t the only one , apparently there were quite a few
@ R-type Grunt 9:43 am
“It’s also interesting to note that comments are closed or not allowed on both those articles. Readers can draw their own conclusions as to why that should be the case.”
Comments also closed in this pile of utter crap from The Grauniad.
link to theguardian.com
I would guess that most Independence supporting readers who put comments in Guardian articles don’t buy the paper, but even leaving comments raise their profile and bring in revenue.
The Guradian’s own journalists have never put in a pro-SNP or P
I’m obviously missing something here – when you click on the Herald page (at the top of the article), it links to an archived piece on former Clyde 1 DJ, Suzie Maguire. Is there some subtlety I’m not tuned into here? Or is my PC screwed up?
Mon the Sturgeonator!
SNP CEs 2017
Can someone explain how Germany can ban fracking and not risk legal challenges but if Scotland banned it, we would get legal challenges?
My guess is that Independence supporters who comment on Guardian articles don’t buy the newspaper or read it, other than articles relating to Scotland, but even commenting raises the profile of the paper and creates revenue.
The Guardian’s own journalists have never put in a proSNP/SG articles so I would suggest pro-Ind supporters may want to stop even commenting. It’s unlikely regular readers don’t know the views of Independence supporters, we’ve been doing it for 5 years or more.
The Unionist trollers there would be lost as most of their comments follow any made by Indy supporters.
The Scottish press knows its readers are imbeciles. A large number of people still believe what they read in the papers and choose the papers they read according to what they want to believe
I just watched the ‘new look’ FMQ online.
Oh dear.
Ruth gets to wave two bits of paper about in the air instead of one.Kezia now only gets to wave one bit of paper about; otherwise no change there.
The attainment gap. SNP a disgrace. Yet Ruth’s Party continuing its daily assault on our poorest families through yet more and more Westminster cuts to reward her rich pals is not considered a major if not all consuming variable in the lengthening gap between the rich and poor in education achievement?
Feck off, Ms Davidson. Holyrood is not a wee pretendy parliament; nor is it, despite your schoolgirl debating society faux histrionics, excluded from commenting on so called reserved matters, like the UK savage cuts in the spend on education, health and welfare, and laying Scotland’s impoverishment and assault on Civic Society by Right Wing HM Governments squarely at your Tory Door Up Here.
The rich are getting richer, the poor, and indeed the rest of us, poorer, because of your policies, my lass. And shame on Dugdale, Harvie, and Rennie, for not attacking Davidson and Co., in our Parliament.The ‘wee things’ that JoLa so readily dismissed back in the day when they had 41 WMN MPs.
Davidson thinks that she can stand up and wave bits of paper in the air, and blame,not her own Government at Westminster, or the Red, Blue, and Jaundiced Tory Councils, or the EIS, but the BAD SNP for all of this;it is an insult to the people of Scotland.
Dugdale joined in this Better Together rant.
You are the ‘disgrace’, Ms Dugdale. You are letting the Blue Tories away with it.
What a joke of a joint opposition we have.
Patrick Harvie wants Council Tax Reform, but the Green Ultra Left version of it. Feck the electorate. His 6 MSPs demand the full LW reform. Nothing less will do. Aye, right, Patrick.
What can be said about Wullie Rennie,that hasn’t already and the smug as feck Tavish sitting behind him, quite obviously delighted to be an irrelevance for another five years on the gravy train.
Those nasty Chinese. Whit ur they like?
I guess that there’s nae Chinese steel up in O&S , Wullie.
Rennie is a sheer waste of oxygen, IMHO.
Another five years for the Lib Dem liars to make absolutely no contribution to the governance of Scotland.
And under the banner of ‘New Look’, we were not whisked away to Andrew Neil in Lundern Town to discuss the SE political scene.
Nope, we stayed with Brian Taylor, who is in serious need of a pressure valve being transplanted into the top of his head, lest he explodes, stood in the hall as MSPs grazed behind him, summing up the first ‘new look’ FMQ with those bright up and coming new political commentators, erm, Gardham, and, no don’t laugh, that guy Maconnell again.
The Herald and the Scotsman/Mail view of Scottish politics.
Ruth and Kezia did really well, so they did, according to the Ultra Unionist Scribes.
Oh jings, crivvens, help ma boab.
They tried their best to restrict politics to reserved matters, bless their overpaid little socks.
But we are out of the box now, ye Unionist apologists.
Foreign wars, Trident, Blue Tory cuts, are fair game. It’s time Labour, Lib Dem, and the Greens realised this.
It is not only the SNP Government that you should hold to account; The Blue Red and Jaundiced Tories Down There need to be constantly challenged too.
Or is your hatred of the SNP all consuming now?
Ask yourself a question readers.. “When was there last a positive (let alone neutral) story about the SNP/Scottish Government” displayed on the front page of any Scottish newspaper?” That answer should speak volumes. SO frack off you frackers!
33% off topic
Was a crackin’ day at sunny Hampden in Glasgow yesterday, you’d of loved it Cearc. The above picture of Bruce and the young lassie was from their first song on the set-list, “Waitin’ on a Sunny Day.” They rocked it!
Saltires were flying everywhere, the weather was unbreakable, the crowd were great and the ever-present Hampden Roar sounded braw.
Also, on approaching our national stadium via Somerville Drive, there strangely was a vote leave stall set up by some unhappy looking persons, who were handing out their negative fear flyers.
From what I could see, most people were taking a wide berth from them, so that was both refreshing and reassuring. Glasgow knows better 🙂
It remains the same today as it did yesterday, so here it is again:
link to youtube.com
Taps still aff!
It certainly looks like papers are going well beyond presenting a unionist position.
It seems flat out misrepresentation is the order of the day and they are working in coordination with the unionist parties
You would think some of their number would blow the whistle if this is the case
@chalks – because the German government control their own energy policy.
If they have banned fracking that means that no licenses have been granted.
The difference here is that WM has already issued licenses for fracking in Scotland.
The ONLY way the SG can stop it at the moment is to have a moratorium to gather evidence on whether or not it is safe to proceed.
I think most folk are sure that it is not safe but by banning it the SG would have to PROVE it is not.
A moritorium means that the companies would have to prove that it is safe.
@chalks
Germany is an independent nation,
it can do what it wants regards fracking,
Scotland is not an independent nation,she has to do what she is telt,
UK gov say fracking OK, decisions on fracking not devolved to Scotland,so only way to stop it is to have a moratorium on fracking which will delay it hopefully forever,
read this,
link to tinyurl.com
Chalks @ 2.13,
Scotland is not a Nation State…
Like the Rev I have been taken aback at the recent vehement MSM attacks on Scotland. I think today’s Comments give the secret to this vehemence.
I have never seen such quality in any Comment section in any newspaper in the UK in my long life.
London knows they have lost Scotland when they see these Comments. London is desperate.
Well done Liz.
To the Point.
Succinct and germaine.
Speed the Day
@ Cactus
lol it was on election eve as the the Daily retard ran a 1 day vote Nicola for FM number so they could say we won it for the SNP.
At first i though vile sepratist had infiltrated the printing presses but it turned out to be just spineless gits trying to claim credit for something they had tried to stop so they could say they won it even though they got their arse handed to them again,how very yoon of them lol
‘@chalks – because the German government control their own energy policy.
If they have banned fracking that means that no licenses have been granted.
The difference here is that WM has already issued licenses for fracking in Scotland.
The ONLY way the SG can stop it at the moment is to have a moratorium to gather evidence on whether or not it is safe to proceed.
I think most folk are sure that it is not safe but by banning it the SG would have to PROVE it is not.
A moritorium means that the companies would have to prove that it is safe.’
I dunno about that. Policies can be changed at all time, regardless of licences being issued, the companies would have to be compensated and even in the event of a moratorium, ie what is going on now, the companies would also have to get their money back on what they paid for the licences
They could challenge it in court but as it is in effect government policy if it was banned, then there is fk all the companies could do about it.
The rule of law respects democracy, believe it or not.
I’ve just your link Scott Finlayson, I was sure Fracking was being devolved?
link to scotsman.com
I know it’s the Scotsman but still……
Chalks @ 2:17, “Can someone explain how Germany can ban fracking and not risk legal challenges but if Scotland banned it, we would get legal challenges?”
…probably, because Scotland is not Germany. Don’t place your full trust in the legal system… Money talks in law and you have to play the game from the position you are in.
@BrianMcHugh
I honestly fail to believe that a court will go against the express wishes of Scotland’s parliament.
Are decisions that Westminster makes brought to court if it is to the detriment of that company? No, TTIP is not law yet.
I am not sure Chalks, what areas of policy are devolved to Scotland and could be a legal factor here… we know that Planning is a power we have, but Westminster’s legal powers over hydrocarbon/oil assets might be a legal stick to beat with?
Do we know which twat proposed the motion to ban fracking ?
chalks at 2:17 p.m.
I think that at present the power of the Scottish government to stop fracking comes from planning law. So they can call in any application to build the infrastructure for fracking and then refuse to give it planning permission because the government is the ultimate planning authority. But I also think that full control over fracking is one of the powers that is coming to the Scottish parliament (and government) in the near future. So once the parliament has that power, the government will not need to rely on planning regulations.
So to answer your question about how can Germany ban it but we cannot, I think the answer is that soon we will be able to because we, like Germany, will have full power over this area of policy. At the moment we don’t, presumably because we are too wee, too poor etc. and we have to rely on planning regulations to prevent it. If the government announced a complete ban, at present that would have to be done by saying all planning applications would be refused, and that would give the legal grounds for appeal. It would be like saying “We don’t like factories, so all planning applications for factories will be rejected”. If the government were to try to stop the construction of factories in this way, they would be challenged in court. But if they just refused individual applications, that would be within their power as the planning authority.
It all goes to show that if we were independent, we would be able to do many things that Westminster does not like. What a bizarre concept – to be able to decide for ourselves how to run our country.
Two Scots go head to head this afternoon. Let me know how it goes as am still deaf from the great Bruce Springsteen at Hampden last night, 55,000 Scots and no crowd trouble either. Oh wait that’s just at football games.
link to lbc.co.uk
Scotland can not ban fracking,
Scotland does not want Trident,can we ban it?
Scotland wants to stay in Europe,can we still stay if England vote to leave?
Scotland wants the Brain family to stay can we let them stay?
Scotland did not want to go to war in Iraq,Afghanistan,Syria,did we stop our soldiers?
the majority voted to let England decide on most matters,England says fracking OK so fracking OK,
we can not stop companies who want to frack in Scotland,
end off.
@TD
Thanks for the response, but that doesn’t sound right, they have called a moratorium on it, not rejected all planning applications?
The simple fact is, we are getting the power and can plan accordingly for when the power is devolved. It is within our power to do so, if a company wanted to take us to court for something over 3000m deep then fair enough, but I doubt the shale is 3000m deep, which is why Germany hasn’t actually completely banned it. As there is an issue when it gets to over 3000m.
A company is not going to bother their arse to challenge the Scottish gov as it’s not worth their time or day when they know it will ultimately be banned……the question is obviously, why are the SNP being so light touch on it?
‘Scot Finlayson says:
2 June, 2016 at 3:42 pm
Scotland can not ban fracking,
Scotland does not want Trident,can we ban it?
Scotland wants to stay in Europe,can we still stay if England vote to leave?
Scotland wants the Brain family to stay can we let them stay?
Scotland did not want to go to war in Iraq,Afghanistan,Syria,did we stop our soldiers?
the majority voted to let England decide on most matters,England says fracking OK so fracking OK,
we can not stop companies who want to frack in Scotland,
end off.’
Do you understand that fracking is being devolved?
Defence is not nor is immigration….
But the simple fact is that the SNP aren’t doing enough on issues that the majority of the Scottish population are clearly in favour of them doing something on, I.e. I and many others would like to see the government have a non-binding referendum which is in the Scottish parliaments powers to do, on trident for example. Or any other fucking issue that can bring attention to the fact that we do not have the power to do something about it and force the fact that we are not a country as you point out.
No point in sulking, educate the people that just voted no because they didn’t feel strongly enough about issues.
@Dr Jim
Pleased to hear Wightman will ditch the rejected elf outfit.
link to lbc.co.uk
Has Germany banned fracking?
Ruby , not the Donald?
Surely he isn’t the most exciting story?
(just checked that out and it is some daft teacher and her sexual abuse – sadly it meant I had to click on the Horrid Herald site!)
@ Scot Finlayson at 3:42pm ……..
Scot stop trying to depress and frighten everyone on here. Have you not heard that Scotland has the most powerfully devolved Parliament in the World?
@Winifred McCartney says: 2 June, 2016 at 9:37 am
“The hatred of the msm towards snp and Nicola Sturgeon is terrible- why do they hate Scotland and its democratically elected leader so much – you have to conclude that their vested interests are being eroded and threatened and they are now so desperate they have to make up more snp baad stories”
Well said, Winifred, but perhaps there is another factor to consider. The plain fact is that, throughout my lifetime, I would have to describe the general attitude of the Scottish electorate as, “Turned off by politics”.
They read their paper but skipped the politics, turned off their wireless sets. or changed TV stations, when there were political programmes being broadcast.
Mind you the broadcasters always did their bit to keep the masses as ignorant as possible. All Stations were originally BBC and The BBC staggered Party Political Broadcasts so that everyone had a choice other than politics.
Politicians and the media have always treated the electorate as idiots and, while a goodly proportion of them actually were idiots, the vast majority were not. What they were was disinterested and more or less satisfied with their lot.
Thing is I’m 80 next birthday and I’ve always been a political animal and I knew there were wrong things being done by all unionist parties.
Now, though, there is a revolution of sorts. The general public has awoken from their slumber and, to their chagrin, politicians find the public want to know what is going on within all levels of politics.
The Wee Toon Clerk is now watched like a hawk. The Toon Cooncil are under public scrutiny. MPs, MSPs and MEPs cannot make a move without it being analysed by a now very clued up electorate. Politicos, generally speaking, do not like it one bit.
I now believe much of their hate, spite and abject fear is that the secret sites where, “The bodies are buried”, is about to become public knowledge. (and believe me in some constituencies those bodies are buried in large mass graves.
Chalks at 3:45 p.m.
Fergus Ewing 28 January 2015
“I am announcing a moratorium on the granting of planning consents for all unconventional oil and gas developments, including fracking. This moratorium will continue until such time as the work I have set out to Parliament today, including a full public consultation, is completed.”
It is clearly the planning regulations that the government are using to prevent fracking at present. However, I think my factories analogy was wrong – as they seem to be doing exactly what I thought they couldn’t.
As you say, the critical point is that soon, the Scottish government will have the power to go for a complete ban. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
After a few short days watching the yoons performing in Hoyrood, I despair as to what kind of morons voted for these arrogant ignorant tolly and lib/dem snobs. As for the mighty SLAB contingent a buch of self serving buffoons, led by a silly wee giggly lassy. The Tollies headed by a windbag and zero substance, the Lib/DEMS by a wee rat. God give me strength.
@Breeks says: 2 June, 2016 at 9:43 am:
” … I’d like to nominate Rev Stu as the SNP’s named person.
Och! Breeks, The Rev’s been, “A Named Person”, by the Yoons for a very long time.
Thing is those names are not printable in any decent society.
chalks
The powers over fracking licences were removed from the Scottish Government in 2014 by the House of lords. The licences were sold by the UK Government, across the central belt and the Borders, plus a few other sites.
As far as I’m aware no Labour lords opposed the removal of control from SG.
The Scottish Labour plan was to allow fracking but leave it to local communities to decide. Imagine local communities trying to take on Fracking companies if they sued, as licences had already been given.
No prior studies of the environment were required, according to the UK Government, and no liabilities for infra structure or environmental damages from the companies.
Just to clarify, what is coming down the pipe via the Scotland Bill is onshore licenses to frack. However, that’s small consolation when hundreds of licenses have already been sold to around 3 energy companies.
The moratorium is the mechanism by which the SG as the ultimate planning authority, issues the instruction to the Council planning authorities – do not allow any of these licenses to be used for onshore fracking, until we investigate the impact of this activity.
If they had simply issued a ban, they would have no basis for that, other than – we read on the internet about USA.
The research and evidence SPECIFIC to Scotland, allows them as the chief planning authority to base their decision to ban, on scientific impact, health impacts and public consultation.
If a large company, with plenty money wants to challenge that they bought their exploratory licenses in good Faith from DECC, they might think twice, that the SG holds the democratic will behind them.
Energy is not devolved, so they have to use sound planning evidence to issue a ban.
@ Chalks
“Can someone explain how Germany can ban fracking and not risk legal challenges but if Scotland banned it, we would get legal challenges?”
Here’s why:
link to imgur.com
They can’t wait to get their claws on Scotland. Deeper into I mean and totally destroy the place. Water is an essential component to fracking. We have over 31,000 lochs. England has around 80 most of which are off limits due to being linked to domestic supply. Scotland the Jewel in the Crown right enough and don’t they know it.
I don’t know if I am the only one who feels that articles like this actually BENEFITS the indy cause in the long run.
Firstly, when people read these articles they can smell the BS wafting from it and if they do fall for it, they will be corrected by a few choice facts.
Secondly, and most importantly, with a constant spotlight on the Scottish government and SNP members by the media, complacency and taking the electorate for granted will never occur as well as forcing the SNP leadership to get rid of any bad apples before they caused any serious damage.
Just one more thing, these newspapers will see their credibility and sales fall because of their constant exposure of irrelevant politicians like Rennie as well as political pygmies from the Labour party which shows how incompetent and impotent they are.
well done labour, lib dems and greens you’ve just opened the door for Ineos and other fracking companies as you voted to ban fracking with no scientific evidence..
The SNP moratorium was in fact a ban but you just had to get one over on them and in doing so showing your true colours
So if anyone used their second vote for any of the three parties named in the first paragraph just go into a dark corner and have a word with yourselves
After independence it will be us sueing them.
A constitution, to deflect the lawyers and their clients, to get their dirty, greedy colonialist hands off our natural assets.
Twenty generations down the line, we may need the gas in the rock.
It is not just ‘security and profit’ that has claim to exploit the land for economic needs, there is the future, and maybe a greater need.
At a tangent, Kevin McKenna in his article in the National (yesterday?) and John McLellan in his Brexit article which starts with a newspaper industry commercial, show that they are well aware of the growing feeling about the media.So they at least are not in denial. David Leask in his petulant responses to criticism shows that he’s aware, but he knows better than us non-media plebs.
Next step is rectification, it makes you wonder whether some of the “editors” and “journalists” will have the courage and good sense to avert their doom? Which may come a lot sooner than they think, if they keep up this level of non-journalism.
John Mclellan was director of communications of the Scottish Conservatives, and after that director of the Scottish Newspaper Society. He does have a Unionist slant.
The Herald even describes it as a ‘drilling technique’. It’s not. It’s a completion & production technique. It’s also not banned and is done frequently in North Sea wells.
What IS subject to the moratorium is the exploitation of onshore unconventional resources ie shale oil and gas, on land in Scotland. This sort of production is absolutely dependent on hydraulic fracturing ‘fracking’as otherwise you won’t be producing much in the way of oil or gas from shale.
The problem is not the technique per se but the large amounts of water that it typically uses, the large amount of highly contaminated waste water that it produces which must be disposed off safely, and issues with water tables which may more likely be due to poor surface casings rather than the fracturing itself.
These things could be dealt with by having strict regulations and inspections. However given that the area to be exploited is also the one where most of Scotland’s population live you can also understand the concern if there were to be an incident.
Rancid The Graun says
“The BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg has been booed by Labour supporters at a speech by Jeremy Corbyn, leading to the party leader shushing the crowd before the broadcaster’s political editor could ask him a question.
Kuenssberg was called to ask a question after Corbyn’s speech but was prevented from speaking for several seconds by hissing and then boos from people in the crowd.”
She bites back though.
— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak)
June 2, 2016
Corbyn also mentioned importance of free press in his speech …just sayin
Free press, owned by a hand full of billionaire far right reactionaries. That’s just the BBC:D
Proud Cybernat 4.57
Eh?
Simple words for simple people, please.
Blow for Sturgeon as 3 days of sunshine causes nationwide drought.
Blow for Sturgeon as 2020 policies ruled out before even thought of.
Blow for Sturgeon as dealer comes through a dry spell.
Blow for Sturgeon as wind blows high, blows low.
The problem is not the technique per se but the large amounts of water that it typically uses,
some types of fracking require a water “drive” but not all. indeed the fracking done offshore requires only the completion and liner volume. this idea was pushed very hard by the anti fracking lobby so that a line was included in the latest fracking legislation which recently passed through the hol, that only wells that use less than 10,000m3 of water would be allowed………er that is about 99% of them. boom.
as to the legality or otherwise about the ban, it sounds right, but id rather see some legal expert explain this, not just some unknown bloggers opinion.
best way to stop fracking, even if the ban is legally binding is this
link to reuters.com
AMSTERDAM, Sept 2 A Dutch court ruled on Wednesday that gas producer NAM must compensate homeowners for falls in the value of their properties due to earthquakes linked to gas production at the Groningen field in the north of the Netherlands.
The ruling by the court in Assen could result in billions of euros of claims against Nederlandse Aardolie Maatschaapij (NAM), a joint venture between Shell and ExxonMobil.
“NAM is responsible for declines in the value of real estate that lies in the area where earthquakes are caused by gas production, and that damage is eligible for compensation,” said judge
Hundreds of thousands of homes and buildings lie in the affected area, which covers wide swathes of the northern Netherlands.
NAM has so far set aside 1.2 billion euros ($1.35 billion) for compensation for damage to buildings. Estimates of the cost of compensating homeowners for lost value and strengthening buildings in the affected region are far higher.
“We are going to study the considerations carefully and consider potential further steps,” NAM spokesman Martijn Verwoerd said in a statement. “We recognise the concern of inhabitants and agree … that, in specific cases, falls in value may be caused by earthquakes.”
The company acknowledges its responsibility for damage caused by quakes, but has maintained that it should compensate homeowners only after they sell their homes at a loss.
Wednesday’s ruling specified that homeowners need not show that their property had suffered any physical damage, only that its value had been affected by its location in the quake area.
It also found that homeowners could request compensation immediately, rather than waiting for a sale.
I think we clued-up Scots voters know exactly the sort of limp rag Corbyn is.
He is always attacking the SNP for “cutting services” (because the Labour Party voted to deprive us of independence and keep us chained to the union, which allocates our “pocket money”).
He attacks the SNP for “privatising ferry services”. We all know the whole story behind this… I wonder if Corbyn is just pig-ignorant? Or opportunistic.
Anyway, he was bleating yesterday about the BBC not being kind to the Labour Party! Everyone here will be falling around laughing. Corbyn is a political pigmy in terms of your average clued-up Scottish teenager.
And that is another reason why we have to leave this union. We are like chalk and cheese politically — in terms of knowledge, where we stand on the political spectrum, everything!
I keep saying: the SNP is strong, has lots of financial resources and always does well when it is seen to be fighting Scotland’s political corner, even among undecideds and soft NOs.
Time to pick a fight with Westminster over the Brain family, over fracking, over Trident…. There needs to be a Holyrood resolution banning nuclear weapons from Scotland. The Brain family must not be deported and must be protected if need be by Police Scotland.
Too much timidity and we will be waiting for independence until the coos come haim. Now is the time to start flexing our muscles, stop taking it on the chin from the BBC and start answering Westminster blow for blow.
I suggest a summer of people’s actions — getting the YES movement back together and monthly demos at Pathetic Quay wit music, speeches, songs, indy rap, bagpipes, bikers…
And our representatives need to stand up for Scotland. Heavens, we have no written constitution, we are also EU citizens, the scope is endless. Get Joanna Cherry and Alex Salmond on the case, what they don’t know about law is not worth knowing.
Does anyone really think we are incapable of running rings around buffoons like Cameron, Osborne, Boris? The American colonists would have declared indy a second time by now! What are we waiting for?!?
Dont forget fears over Johns educational mystery tours guys its a buy one get one free SNPbad for the herald.
Rev are you on one of those educational mystery tours fae big John and what the… was that pink stuff and have those yoons used their deadly shrinking ray or is that just one big deckchair lol
I am glad that Stu reads this bilge so I don’t have to.
“Supposing is good,but finding out is better”
The SNP (Scottish Rational Party)are way ahead of the yoon pack on this,data,provides a ‘way in’ to resolving difficult questions for politicians (and courts).
We live in an era of Evidence – Based decision making,readily available data,not only gives politicians something substantial to discuss,it allows judges to evaluate arguments and make decisions.
On controversial policies like fracking,the decision will be based on Evidence,instead of rhetorical conjecture,if you have to go to court,you better have your data ready.
“In God we trust,all others bring data”
p.s. That’s why the Red Tories are shit at this,they’re rubbish at data and numbers.
Fair dues to the Scottish Greens, yesterday in rancid The Graun’s thing on NP and the Liam Fee tragedy. As usual its all at the bottom of their red tory reportage but
“John Finnie is the Scottish Green party MSP for the Highlands and Islands – the local authority that pioneered Getting It Right For Every Child (GIRFEC), the wider policy of which named person is part, and where it has been operating for several years.
“I believe in civil liberties absolutely and I want people’s rights protected,” he said. “But the vast majority of children and parents will be untouched by the named person scheme.”
“People are spoiling for a fight,” Finnie added. “We can’t have people encouraging the protection of children but seeking an opt-out for themselves. This is a debate about universal and targeted provision. Are you saying that there has to be some level of protection that has to be opted into? It makes me quite angry because I feel there is an intentional misunderstanding.”
So, “just to be clear”, Rev, a new day but the same old Carmichael from MSM? All very annoying but we should take heart from the falling sales graphs of the Komic Kuts Press. I love the smell of all their remaindered copies in the afternoon.
In Glasgow yesterday, another most satisfying sight: two Awfully Nice Ladies trying to flog The Hootsmon and a groovy hessian “I love Scotland” or some such bag (no boaking at the back, please) for £1. The douce burghers of Ra Toon seemed deeply unimpressed. Desperation stakes, methinks.
The Yoon parties are withering, the MSM is sinking but the BBC remains. That’s our biggest hurdle and our final enemy.
SNP voters for Brexit organise an event where seven, yes 7 people turn up and STV report that as news and a blow for the SNP
That was excluding Nicola Sturgeon being to blame for everything else as well
Not been feeling well enough to post much or use the internet the last few days (man flu?) but nice to see all the strong and informed comments as usual.
Been SNP bad in spades for a few days but many folk helping to keep the spirits up. 🙂
Thanks to all who clarified the real situation on the ‘Frackin’ amendment at Holyrood yesterday.
PS:
I see darn Sarf are cooing about new money plastic notes on the news…I think the Clydsdale Scottish Bank note version has been going the rounds for a while now. First in ‘Britain’ but that’s not news is it!
Is it?
O/T
BBC One Show Mark Carney passing out new polymar £5 notes wow whee I failed miserably to get myself to worked up about it,as polymar notes have been introduced in Scotland since last year app,Hmmm Bbc Scotland must hiv missed that event ,no Unionjackinory & no Fatman in the picture.
scotland votes in but is dragged out of eu by england
bojo becomes pm
yes2 launched
tories get jailed for election fraud, tories lose majority
the effects of brexit start to show
support for indy increases in scotland to 60%
salmond posts members bill on indyref2
tories support knowing with the snp gone they regain their majority
mandate sought and won for indyref2 in 2017 local elections
june24th 2017, independence day
sorted
@ cat
Dont forget Blair and gang arrested for war crimes i am sure we have room to fit that one in someplace 😉
@chalks says: 2 June, 2016 at 2:17 pm:
“Can someone explain how Germany can ban fracking and not risk legal challenges but if Scotland banned it, we would get legal challenges?”
Yes, Chalks, Germany is the EU member state and Scotland is not a member state – just a, “region”, of the UK. And the UK has already agreed to frack the whole UK. So Holyrood would be defying Westminster if it banned Fracking and Fracking is not a devolved function.
This is why Holyrood has put a very clever moratorium on fracking. By doing so they put the legal onus back upon the Frackers. The Frackers must now prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, in a law court, that fracking is 100% safe.
Thing is that in the USA and Canada there are thousands of proven bad and unsafe results of fracking. Domestic drinking water pollution is rife.
In fact the Scottish geology, that made the use of the large scale coal cutting machines from the USA useless, also makes Fracking very, very, chancy.
The reason the planned superpit, that they UK built the New Town of Glenrothes to house the miners for, but which pit closed before ever producing coal was the Scottish geology. Ancient volcanic activity had left the coal seams lying at all sorts of fractured angles.
The imported coal cutters were designed for long extended and thick seams. There just were no long thick seams in Scotland. Unlike in the Welsh valleys where they could go in on the level on one side of a mountain and have a thick seam of coal right through to the other side of the mountain. Then move over to the next mountain and pick up the same seam straight through that mountain too.
Och it was lovely watching “Seaside Strollin’ With Stuey”.
He’s incredibly tiny and there was a look on his face I hadn’t ever seen before…yes…he was smiling!
Our badass Cybernat Overlord is eating fish and chip flavoured rock on trains, and he’s so tiny and happy!
*waves at tiny (did I mention he’s so tiny) Stuey…from sunny Glasgow town…*
forgot about blair
yup, the planets are aligning perfectly….
would like to see an article on how we go about launching yes2.
Och stop it cat, bloody cybernat christmas list and it’s only just turned June! 😉
SC: like your purr!
If only…
@chalks says: 2 June, 2016 at 3:23 pm:
“I honestly fail to believe that a court will go against the express wishes of Scotland’s parliament. “
Oh! Hell! That’s another cleaning for the screen and keyboard. I should know by now not to eat, drink and read comments at the same time.
Chalks, The reactions in Edinburgh immediately after the Treaty of Union came into force saw the public stoning the parliamentarians.
When the cartload of gold that was paid by Westminster, “as compensation”, arrived in the capital and was on its way up the Royal Mile to the Castle there was a multitude of people stoning it.
Does that tell you the people of Scotland wished to be in a union with England? Where then the Rule of Law?
Davosa,
“This is exactly why I have given up on The Herald and now only read The National and Sunday Herald.”
How did the pro-Green The National report this story?
Saw this in the i paper this morning down here. Small couple of paragraphs which were fairly ok except they called the SG ‘the ruling party’! Really! Where are we…North Korea!
The same way we launched indy1 with a big party lots of saltires happy people doing Scottish things ,politics dropped off the radar just a big fun day out for all the people in Scotland including those sour faced yoons,entertainment guest from around the world bands and a big free Scotland gig,if we are going to do it lets do it big and tour the cities,lets get in touch with the Catalans and invite over their politicians and dignataries and officially during it be the first country to recognise their self determination in law.
Screw the union and westmister lets see them try to forbid it,lets play the world game lets show the real power of little Scotland and if there is one country that knows how a union should work its us we have been at this a long time they need our help and are under the same yolk of oppression that will tear it apart.
A full delegation of Scottish dignataries lead by Craig to the EU let him pick his team with a mandate from the government on full inclusive partnership in the EU and that we no longer recognise the UK membership as valid and not in our interest or the interests of the EU.
Only from inside can we help our EU brothers and sisters and they can help us ,we must show them that union can work but only if it is based on trust and equality.
Yes its tantamount to declaring UDI but it is also confiming to the people of Europe that we are not self centered nationalist,we did it once before our history with Europe and friendship goes way back before those eejits down south had finally killed their way to one ruler.
The sky is the limit and we should not be affraid to soar,we will never have a better time as the tories are running about trying to save their necks while arguing who has the biggest scare story.
wish list? really
scotland votes in but is dragged out of eu by england
the polls would need to be really out of whack if scotland votes leave, presently about 70% remain
what england will do will become clearer in the next round of polling next week
bojo becomes pm
cameron will defo go if he loses, indeed, he has already said he is stepping down before the end of this term. I agree with salmond though, cameron will go regardless of the result
who else is there apart from bojo? if it is out then it is the brexiters and 1922 rightwingers who will take control of the tory party.
yes2 launched
this is the only thing we actually have any control of,
tories get jailed for election fraud, tories lose majority
heres hoping, but recent announcements look bad for tories, bear in mind this isnt orchestrated by the snp. they get to sit back and enjoy.
the fall out from blair getting a kicking will only errode support for the union in scotland and confirm the belief in crooked tories
the effects of brexit start to show
50%of uk trade with the eu, but only about 3% of the other 27 eu countries trade is with the uk. you think the french and germans wont move to disadvantage uk farmers? dream on. the financial services in london will immediately lose out to the remaining eu finance centres
support for indy increases in scotland to 60%
once again, this wont be down to us building bridges or nicolas new shoes but the endless bad economic stories brought about by brexit
currently, in scotland, yes/no is 50/50 but in/out is 70/30 ie 20% of population is no voting pro eu types. a brexit will have an effect, maybe only 1 or 2% initially, but endless uk media doom and economic gloom stories brought about by brexit will increase that number
we just need to sit back and enjoy. note to self, buy big bag of popcorn
salmond posts members bill on indyref2
whether we need to do this is debatable
tories support knowing with the snp gone they regain their majority
the torys are divided on this as well, but the brexiters dislike the scots and belief their own propaganda about subsidy junkies. bear in mind if it is a brexit, it will be these tories in charge and a short term solution to regain a majority in westminster will find support amongst them
mandate sought and won for indyref2 in 2017 local elections
this will shut up unionists claims about the snp mandate to hold indyref2
june24th 2017, independence day
sorted
Given the death-toll of innocent civilians attributed to the “War on Terror”, is now approaching that of the Nazi Holocaust and with no end in sight (see Syria), I would imagine it will take a good few “real-life generations” for the British public to forgive British Labour (New or otherwise), for that particular ‘humanitarian intervention’.
We gave England 300 years to get it right i think we owe the EU some time but only if we take our rightful place at the EU table and the saltire flies proudly outside the EU parliament.
You know sometimes i think the EU has been waiting on us doing this i mean the UK a union inside a union just does not make sense to the founding principles of the EU,its just not right that EU citizens should not have the right to self determination like all other countries in the EU its like a big plook on the arse of Europe and Spain is the other big plook,time to burst them.
@ K1 Did he hiv ah Bradshaws directory in his hawn wiz he traveling wie Portillo by any chancety lol.
Proud Cybernat at 2.57pm
No your pc is not playing games with you. That Herald section at the top of this article does indeed link to an archived article about a Clyde DJ who spent 3 days in the clink.
Not a clue why Rev linked to it. Mind elsewhere perhaps?
@Daisy 1.45pm
The lifting costs in the States for “shale Oil – fracking” production is between 40 & 45 Dollars per BBL.
That is why the Saudis drove it below 40 Dollars and held it there. However they lost control when others such as the Russians grabbed the market sales the surrendered. The Saudis cannot do much and since Oil is 95 percent of their GDP they are now in big trouble.
At $50 / bbl the fracking companies can hold out for quite awhile. The USA is buying up Oil and putting into massive Salt dome conversions. The USA now has a storage of several days which enables them to control the USA price by releasing stock stored onto the market.
Fracking is now a political tool.
I am sure if we asked the RoI EU elected officials for aid they would only be to happy to help,lets find out who our allies are in the EU and treat them to some fine Scottish hospitality,you have to start to build that bridge somewhere.
And if we stick to the westminster UK membership we can never do that they take away the bricks we have to stop them doing that,plus it would really freak out those britnat brexiters to the extreme and that would be so funny.
@Lollysmum says: 2 June, 2016 at 8:39 pm:
” … No your pc is not playing games with you. That Herald section at the top of this article does indeed link to an archived article about a Clyde DJ who spent 3 days in the clink.”
If memory serves the original page linked correctly. I believe the paper changed its front page. However, if you scroll down that front page the referred to article is indeed there. Along with another interesting link or two.
Just read a BBC news item on line that says, “UK’s oldest hand written document has been found.
It is on a Roman Tablet discovered during a an excavation in London. It is dated 8 January AD 57.
Rumour has it that it translates as, “Kilroy was here”.
This is not correct – the Message actually translates as, “SNP Baaaad”.
How do we do all this well lets use the best weapon we have crowdfunding,a run of crowdfunding projects by the indy bloggers “come party with free Scotland”(again screw the yoons lets just do it) donations welcome.
We talk like we are free we act like we are free and ignore the protestations coming out the yoon camp and we will be free lets not wait for permission,thats just stupid.
Just keep throwing more constitutional questions at them from all angles until their brains explode and go into meltdown they have no answers and are exposed for all to see.
The same way we launched indy1 with a big party lots of saltires happy people doing Scottish things
i like your sentiments DM however, we didnt launch yes1, alex salmond and the snp did, he also appointed its head, re- blair jenkins.
this time the snp will and must take a back seat until indyref2 is officially called, which means it is up to the people to launch yes2, ie us
thing is, i have tried to start a convo on here a few times about potential leaders, some exellent ideas came forward, but it strikes me that we cannot speak for everyone in scotland even if we decided on someone btl. even the yes registry which is trying to impose a national structure onto a fractured organisation is having limited success.
this was the discussion we had at our last local yes meeting
Q. how does one speak for, coordinate, launch and lead a collection of disjointed grassroots indy organisations
A. You dont and you cant
We at yesnef only speak for members of yesnef
policies
indy for scotland
thats it.
members are free to hold any view they like concerning the timing of indyref2. since yesnef has no intention of standing for election we wont be deciding when. members are free to argue for their preference.
Plan B
we dont even have a plan A. members are free to argue for a currency union, scottish pound, bit coin, euro etc. whatever floats their boat.
political parties can produce white papers, manifestos etc. YESNEF will not.
YESNEF is now fully constituted and are lucky to have 2or3 well kent political commentators in our area who we are approaching to ask if they will represent us, speak for us, support us and attend our official launch.
I suggest you do the same
Fracken sie Deutsch?
@Clootie
most countries have a Strategic Petroleum Reserve or Strategic oil Reserves that should last 90 days,
According to the United States Energy Information Administration, approximately 4.1 billion barrels of oil are held in strategic reserves,
link to tinyurl.com
UK does not have an actual reserve,they make oil producers in UK hold on to a certain amount of stock, so they make the legal limit,
you can buy your reserved stock from other countries and they are held in that country,
even if you go to war with that country they are legally obliged to release the oil to you,
link to tinyurl.com
DerekM says:
2 June, 2016 at 9:07 pm
How do we do all this well lets use the best weapon we have crowdfunding,
agreed DM
the yes online merchandise website was rubbish, indeed the best mechandise was the 10,000 flags crowd funded on this site.
is their a single photo of any crowd during the indyref where at least one of these flags was not present?
indeed, our yes group got over 100 of them for nothing and then sold them to our members and the public for £5 each. this became our greatest source of funding for our group. we used it to buy badges etc from yes scotland
this should be redone on the 24th of june if it is a brexit
@ schrodingers cat
Yes but it was the party that got everybody engaged cat we Scots just love a good party it was that what brought us all together ,the indy ref was hard work but we did it with a grassroots movement and fun days out.
I know i shouldnt just suggest Craig but for the life of me i cant think of a better man to take on the job,and i am sure the ambassador would be very fair in picking the best people from the indy movement and since he is no longer SNP he is free to be a representative of Scotland ,we must have some mechanism inside our parliament for this could he approach the Scottish government with a soverign petition from the people asking them to commision him to find a team to do this.
Sorry Craig just tell me to shut up if i have gone too far you know i always have Scotland in my heart i may be a dreamer but dreams are where the best ideas come from.
Ok I lurk and read but haven’t ever comment but this time I feel I have to. I don’t agree with the msm snpbad mantra and how it’s spouted out at every given opportunity. It’s lazy journalism. But in this case there is a criticism that I feel is being missed and that’s that I didn’t vote my msp in so that they could sit on their hands. I voted for her to represent me and our area so I’m pretty annoyed every single one of them abstained. That’s a cop out move if you ask me and I’m not impressed.
wish list? really
joke? seriously 😉 (the winky smiley thing was the clue)
Aye Ronnie ah wunnered who wis takin’ the photy’s 😉
Tony , perhaps you should re read the reasoning , perfectly logical and just about the only thing they could do.
If you wish to believe Gardham and co ( the ‘co” being the lib/lab/con parties)no-one can stop you.
Well done SG for extending the moratorium on fracking which can go round in a repeat loop until the inevitable happens- Scotland becomes independent and develops its renewable energy assets.
A recent inquiry into fracking in the USA concluded
‘Shale gas development has also brought increasing expression of concerns about risks, including risks to human health, environmental quality, non- energy economic activities in shale regions, and quality of life in affected communities.
Some of these potential risks are beginning to receive careful evaluation; others are not. Although the risks have neither been fully characterized yet nor all carefully analyzed, governments at all levels are making policy decisions, some of them hard to reverse, about shale gas development and/or how to manage the risks.
It is not clear that the governmental entities making these decisions have adequate knowledge of the benefits and risks or adequate resources, authority, and expertise to make and implement wise development and risk management choices.
Questions have been raised about the adequacy of risk governance because of special exemptions from federal environmental legislation that apply to this industry segment and because of the uneven and often declining capacity of state and local governmental authorities to evaluate and govern the risks in a time of budgetary stringency.
In addition, new risk concerns are emerging as the technology spreads, and there are significant variations in how the technologies are used and in the associated risks across geological formations and in relation to many other ways places differ (population characteristics, built infrastructure, land use practices, policies, etc.)
-Adequacy of regulations. Because this new enterprise has grown very rapidly… adequate regulations are not in place and regulating unexpected interactions producing risks will be very difficult… most regulations are state and local and that regulators at those levels are poorly staffed, trained, and equipped to deal with the risks…shale gas development is a new destructive enterprise without compensating regulatory institutions… the economic and political power of the oil and gas industry is effective in convincing states not to regulate’
-Economic justice issues… the benefits of this industry are unequally distributed to an extreme extent… Another economic justice question raised involves property owners, some of whom receive large signer fees and royalties, while neighbors who do not receive the fees must use bottled water and live in fear of gas explosions. Property values decline (in some cases, by 75%), but full information about damages is lacking, he said, because gag rules associated with damage settlements hide information about the extent of damages
-Methane releases. .. the industry releases methane at rates of two to seven percent and cited one scientific report estimating that it is more polluting than coal…the public is not getting good independent estimates of methane emissions
-Corporate culture issues (about the possibility of changing corporate culture to reduce accidents)… research on organizational behavior indicates that the chances of changing corporate culture quickly for the better are very remote- the example of BP, which had a massive leak from a facility in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, after being warned by company engineers. Then, 2 years later in Texas City, Texas, BP had a deadly explosion after corporate leaders had been previously warned of the need for more safety and better maintenance at the plant there…Some saw the industry’s growth as leading to rapid and even dangerous development. Some respondents voiced fears of illegal activity, corruption, and bribery, including payoffs to landowners and politicians
-Society-level economic and political risks… rapid shale gas development, negative impacts and community dislocation, and debates about development of renewable energy versus shale gas could lead to large amounts of stranded investments and locked-in greenhouse gas emissions… scientific understanding of this complex of issues is low
-Inadequate information. Some concerns related to a lack of data or of relevant data; some to flawed, biased, or limited science. Some respondents were concerned about dissemination of false information, and some questioned whether industry is sharing only information that favors its objectives or said that industry is will fully making it hard to understand information
-Inadequate public participation. These concerns raise three broad themes… the perception that there is an insufficient level of scientific understanding to make well-informed decisions and a lack of transparency in formulating and disseminating new knowledge… trust: some respondents do not trust existing institutions to protect people and the environment from shale gas development risks. The third is justice in the distribution of risks and benefits and in decision-making processes that affect individuals, communities, nations, and future generations’
National Academies Press ‘Risk and Governance in Shale Gas Development’ ISBN 978-0-309-31257-8
Hasn’t war become terribly civilized these days? Obviously this is meant to avoid collateral damage’ to civilian populations.
What if your nation is an oil producer that has just been destroyed by the bastions of liberty and civilised progress? No, not us free-thinking Scots, our great leap forward continues.
Screw a plan lets just wing it,doesnt seem like you need one maybe thats where we went wrong we gave them to much ammo,and that hid the stark constitional question,as it all became about other things anytime it raised its ugly head.
When asked whats your plan we just say whats yours to fuck us up well anything is better than that try guessing it has something to do with independence and following the EU rules as members of the EU union something you lot know nothing about.
Give them nothing,let them scream their little heads off no plan no plan,no more mr nice guy constitution constitution constitution,from both independece and from EU citizenship perspective and a member of another union.
Sorry britnats but we found this better union you might know it your in it or were so to save you having to answer to the EU about your conduct to EU citizens we have decided to save your bacon so we will tear up our union and we can be best of buddies in the EU union thats if you still want that,either way you have no choice because thats what we are doing,but we do hope to see you along with all our friends working together to make the EU a better place for all her people,together we have lots of experience in making a union work and have much to share of our union with the people of our new union the EU,dont think of it as the end think of it as a new beginning as we will still be together in the EU and we know how much you love unions.
Lay it on thick boom bang kick in the nuts,appeal to their over inflated ego`s and give them an escape route.
The Scotland Bill states that the power to decide on fracking in Scotland will be transferred to Holyrood and that would surely solve the problem. That is my understanding but comments welcomed.
link to scottishenergynews.com
Another day and another litany of Yoon lies.
Energy isn’t devolved. The Yoons will always take their orders and coin from Londinuim. Even the Yoon NIMBYs will give in on Fracking for enough coin and coats of deid stoat.
In a clerical parody of Jim Sillars, viewers of the news last night were treated to an anti-Europe rant by some Free Kirk minister. The fact that this Rev was also an SNP member was made much of & that everbody was out of step but him. Is every SNP member to get a TV slot on this subject one wonders & are the Rev’s views on euthanasia, abortion, the Church of Scotland, Sunday ferries, & the Church of Rome to be aired on a weekly basis. His Euro-sceptical drivel was doubtless not unconnected to the number of RC’s on the Continent and I’m sure his views on gay marriage would be generally welcomed by certain Holyrood big shots.
Fred stopped his ears against the rantings of any flavour of ministers whatsoever more than 50 years ago, with the honourable exception of the Rev’ Campbell.
Here endeth the lesson.
@DerekM
Craig Murray if that’s who you mean definitely couldn’t be head of YES. Never met him though I saw him speak, have exchanged posts on his blog. I like the guy from what I see but if he was on TV about YES, they’d only have to mention Uzbhekistan or somewhere else and he’d be way off on a tangent rant, completely blow the YES program off the rails. He’s a maverick (I like that), and best doing his own thing.
I think you misunderstand me yesindyref2 i am not suggesting he should run the yes movement campaign i am saying he should lead a delegation of Scots to the EU parliament and start negotiations with our EU partners,you know kind of burst in and say hi all are these our seats here,okay we have a big problem what are we all going to do about it.
Play the constitution card use the EU to squeeze from one side while we kick the doors in from the other,its got to be obvious to the EU having a special country all ready in a union is not the best idea to have in another union where you are trying to preach equality and self determination,but we need to do it official call it a test of the EU and lets see if they get it right or wrong.
‘Robert Peffers says:
2 June, 2016 at 7:55 pm
@chalks says: 2 June, 2016 at 3:23 pm:
“I honestly fail to believe that a court will go against the express wishes of Scotland’s parliament. “
Oh! Hell! That’s another cleaning for the screen and keyboard. I should know by now not to eat, drink and read comments at the same time.
Chalks, The reactions in Edinburgh immediately after the Treaty of Union came into force saw the public stoning the parliamentarians.
When the cartload of gold that was paid by Westminster, “as compensation”, arrived in the capital and was on its way up the Royal Mile to the Castle there was a multitude of people stoning it.
Does that tell you the people of Scotland wished to be in a union with England? Where then the Rule of Law?’
Jesus Christ, do I really need to respond to this?
Times have changed and you seriously have to be of a totally blinkered opinion to believe that a court would rule against the legally elected government of Scotland from making a decision which it is well within it’s rights to make.
Like I say, TTIP is not in yet.
As the Wee Ginger Dug link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com has pointed out, the SLAB-led decision by the Scottish Parliament makes fracking more rather than less likely, as, in the event of a Scottish Government making the moratorium permanent the fracking companies would rush to the courts pointing to the vote and claiming that this showed bias in that the decision had been made in advance of the evidence.
In any case, once the EU rams through TTIP, the companies could take the Scottish Government to the secret courts mandated by that and either overturn the decision or claim compensation for lost profits.