The biggest lie in history
We’re going to hold off full scrutiny and analysis of the Smith Commission report on devolution until it’s actually released and we’ve read it, rather than going on pure speculation like most Scottish newspapers this morning.
But what we CAN talk about is this.
The Daily Record’s front page this morning is almost certainly the most shameful, knowing, deliberate lie ever published in a newspaper in Scotland since the invention of the printed press. It is simply utterly without basis in fact, and the person writing it knows it to be so.
Whether it comes from a block grant or from collecting tax itself, the “Scottish Government budget” will be changed this much by the recommendations of the Smith Commission, even if they’re implemented in full: not one single penny.
The source of some of its money will change, the amount of it will not.
Even if you grant Torcuil Crichton some wiggle room on the grounds that headlines and straplines often sacrifice accuracy for impact, the full article in the paper is equally false in both letter and spirit.
No, it won’t. It will NOT be responsible for ANY extra spending. That sentence is a lie. There is absolutely NO “extra tax”. Nobody will pay a penny extra to anyone. The amount of tax taken from Scottish taxpayers will be exactly what it is now, and so will the spending, because the budget WON’T CHANGE AT ALL.
The rest of the story is packed full of further lies, but none of the magnitude of the one on the front cover. It is simply the most disgraceful untruth – both in the depth of its deliberate cynicism and the magnitude of its falsehood – ever told to Scots.
What we have come to expect from the Labour house magazine.
AND a free Jaffa Orange.
WHAT a day.
Plus there was no free Lees Jaffa orange in any of the papers in my local shop.
The Smith Commission – chaired by Lord Smith of Kelvin.
He was a nobody before.
Now he’s a nonentity.
He has effectively thrown a carrot into a pot of water and is calling it soup, while throwing all the other ingredients in the bin – where his reputation now lies.
In other countries, folk like Crichton would need a bodyguard to leave the house.
Scotland is getting the piss taken out of it by Unionist liars like him, and there is nothing we can do about it. He can’t be voted out of his job, and lies with impunity.
Rule Brittania!
I feel sick…..
There are a high number of people in Scotland with a vote in May 2015 who know that any proper powers (that is powers to change how Scotland redistributes our wealth) can only be delivered by sending few or zero of the Westminster based parties particularly labour to represent us.
I would like to see a percentage of what taxes Scotland will now be “responsible” for and how much Westminster has actually retained……..a clever bet would be we have the dross, the dodgy stuff and that Westminster will keep the cream and still benefit from our higher contribution from Scotland to the uk exchequer.
The daily record headline is not misleading, it is a lie, as is the wording and the content, but it will give the media a chance to praise Jim murphy somehow and allow him to grandstand when he becomes the leader of the Scottish branch party with the forlorn hope of getting people to vote labour next May to “keep out the Tories” ……….we are much wiser than that and we need to demonstrate that our vote for Westminster involves sending down politicians we can actually trust to be our voice now we are stuck with that parliament.
Lying bastards caught lying again.
This is British North Korea – where lies and fantasy are fused and called ‘News’.
As I said on the previous thread:
Get your sick bags ready. The BBC Labour spin machine is just getting started.
You ain’t seen nothing yet.
The Smith Commission is apparently reporting now. Anyone tell me where it can be viewed on a screen?
Ta.
Scotland’s Champion
There are no words I could use which would adequately describe the utter contempt I’m feeling toward that rag right now.
Fuck em, I’m buying two copies of the National today.
We’ll be getting this from now till GE15.
The No voters will soon be crowing about it.
It’ll be wall to wall Murphy on BBC Scotland saying ‘I told you so.’ and ‘Labour’s back’.
Just wow, from the record tweets you would think that they are talking about the second coming (and managed to talk God into letting this happening).
I am beyond fury, anger, rage or whatever else I am supposed to feel.
I knew the smith commission would be a crock of stinking crap but to have the record crow over it like it is a 12 course Indian banquet with poppadoms is almost too much to take.
I see that they are somewhat confused by on-shore and off-shore definition (para 69 of report)
link to smith-commission.scot
link to bbc.co.uk
Smith: ‘The delivery of this report marks the end of my involvement…’ (paraphrase)
Translation: ‘I’ve just delivered a box full of turds to your house and got your cat to sign for it…now I’m offsky. Cheerio!’
WALOFS
That is all
Onwards
The lies are coming thick and fast
Michael Moore of the Scottish Liberal Democrats says Smith Commission proposals give “home rule for Scotland” and amount to a transformation of Scotland’s political settlement and also a transformation of the UK.
The Daily Record makes up shit to justify made up shit. You couldn’t make it up. /sarcoff
How much of the Smith commissions recommendations will actually be implemented by the UK government? I find it highly unlikely that the UK government (whether it be labour or tory) would devolve APD after doggedly refusing to consider it for years.
‘The Vow Delivers’. Aye, Right.
Yawn – usual headline punch – just like their big freeze one for last Winter. What a shame peopel swallow it.
John Swinney says it all-WM not prepared to deliver
link to snp.org
David Cameron, the Prime Minister, tweets 1/2 I’m delighted with the Smith report on devolution. We are keeping our promise to the Scottish people.
So let me get this right – 48 hours ago the Red Tories were dead against the full control of income tax, and now, this morning as Smith reports, they claim that they were for it all along – another victory for the people’s party!
Erm, okay.
Daily Record- tick tock
Smith Commission- a national embarrassment
Press Conference speakers:
John Swinney- diplomatic but scathing
Iain Gray- Slab lies
Annabel Goldie- not worthy of any comment
Michael Moore- home rule,whit!
Maggie Chapman- sharp and to the point.
Roll on GE2015
Perhaps a list of all the tax varying powers they’ve left out and it’s % of the overall tax take of a country would help matters.
This is a crap deal, but for once I agree with Scottish Labour MPs. They’ll soon be obselete, and independence is now a done deal.
Just a small matter of another referendum.
The problem is there are people who believe anything the Daily Record prints, and I know I used to work with some of them.
A few years back a work mate ripped me and the SNP because the D.R was gloating over the dropping of the Local Income Tax policy. I cannot say for certain, but from the headline I was sure that the D.R did not explain it was because the SNP could not secure enough votes to pass it, but instead gave the impression that it was because the SNP were full of shit.
I ended up saying to one of them, don’t you know that’s a Labour paper, the reply being, obviously. So clearly not too stupid, but stupid enough.
To be fair to the Record (what am I saying?), they’ve managed to achieve something remarkable – astonishing even. I didn’t think they could improve on the lie which was ‘The Vow’ but fair play to them, they’ve come up trumps with this one.
link to smith-commission.scot
Interesting quote at the end of that SNP press release – looks like they’re gearing up to include a referendum on Devo Max in their manifesto:
“Next year’s General Election offers the people of Scotland the opportunity to have their say, and the SNP will propose improvements to the package for which we will seek popular support in May. The Westminster parties have now gone as far as they are ever prepared to go in terms of powers for Scotland -and it is not as far as they indicated during the referendum. They have drawn their final line in the sand – and it is on the wrong side of majority opinion in Scotland.
“The General Election enables the voice of the people to be heard over the powers that Scotland needs to boost employment and tackle inequality – and we look forward to their verdict.”
I ended up saying to one of them, don’t you know that’s a Labour paper, the reply being, obviously. So clearly not too stupid, but stupid enough.
Many people actually choose to be stupid, because to be not stupid requires a bit of effort. Some people are simply too lazy to think for themselves. Why change things? Ignorance is bliss!
Anyone wanting to see a talking rear end….
Secretary of State for Scotland, Alistair Carmichael, is to make a statement in the House of Commons on Thursday 27 November 2014 on the report by the Smith Commission.
link to parliament.uk
I am not sure if I am misreading the Smith report, but does it pretty much say that the only way to sort out this pile of bollocks is to have another referendum in 2018.
The Smith Commission Report does not mention the Vow.
link to smith-commission.scot
They are done people.
Delivery of a non existent vow, which nobody can trace a source for and for which all parties deny actually exists. Home Rule? By whose definition? Michael Moore? Westminster’s in general? The Record’s?
So once again only one question really remains pertinent. Does the Scottish electorate feel that Home Rule/Devo Max/Near Federalism/Full Fiscal Autonomy has been delivered to their satisfaction?
If not? Well, we know what to do about it come May.
As for the Record? There’s only one way to let them know what we think now, isn’t there? We find a new ‘champion’ far more deserving and worthy of the name.
Where on earth are they getting this “increased budget” nonsense from? Literally making stuff up to sell your newspaper is obviously not unheard of, but when people can see immediatly it’s a load of balls it doesn’t really work.
I have to say, so what? Nobody ever does anything about this newspaper? Nobody challenges them? Nobody tells the public the truth? Nobody attacks the lies publically and the idiots who believe this continue to believe it is true? I just don’t get where any ois that simplef these sort of rants are going? Futile, pointless waste of bandwidth? You are telling the people who already know this is a lie?
The laws need changing. Freedom of press is one thing. Printing misinformation and lie which undermine a country, it’s people and its government should be ILLEGAL , punishable by huge fines and eventual closure for big companies.
Well said Stew,
We on here all agree with you , but will the new newspaper “The National” have the balls to go head to head against another paper and call it out for what it is, I applaud what you do, we all do, but your message has got to get out to the “sleeping” public.
No comments on the Daily Record since the ‘Vow’. Says it all.
Vote SNP/Alliance 7/5/15
As expected they are delivering nothing much of substance. However the media war machine will be spinning the ‘vow wow’ factor non stop…we must get the truth out there and contradict the lies with facts. I like John Swinney’s statement but that is only the start.
[…] The biggest lie in history […]
The DR and it’s “Vow” promised nothing but woolly waffle and lies. Westminster and the DR will continue to deliver on this for ever, taking the credit for any success, blaming others for problems arising from the “settlement.” I await with horror further reporting on this throughout the media.
Crichton was, of course, against any devolution at all from the start. Now he appears to be rejoicing at a further measure of it.
What’s behind that attitude? It boils down to knee-jerk, Britnat Labour loyalty: whatever the status quo, short of independence, is fine and Scotland has all the powers that it needs. We should be happy with things as they are, and get on with the really important matter of ushering in the inevitable Golden Age of permanent Labour government, in the UK and world-wide.
Scotland needs control over spending.
Renewables have overtaken nuclear energy in Scotland. Tories – Pickles – have banned turbines in England.
The DR page linked to appears to have disappeared *
link to archive.today
So any changes to income tax or APD rates made by Holyrood must be offset by commensurate ‘reimbursement’ to the Treasury. No gain to Scotland, but a permanent threat to the Barnett formula.
Nice.
The vow may not have been delivered, but Lord Smith certainly delivered for his imperial masters.
a whole load of nothing.
absolutely no real jobs creation powers, nothing that will create sustainable jobs.
the report is totally in line with WM economic policy of bailing out the banks and jailing the people in poverty.
“keeping the treadmill lubricated”; a policy of non re-distribution of wealth, maintaining the one way valve.
No need to worry folks we are now forgotten them furriners are back at the top of the pile again
If you believe the Daily Rectums twisted lies then you will believe anything! Time for people to get wise and realise that propaganda comic and the brit establishment they so dearly love are taking the piss out of the Scottish people big time. THE CON AKA THE VOW might just be there undoing.
Said it last night, apart from Air Passenger Duty we’ve just become English Tax Collectors. The Brits dont seem capable of learning anything do they? Lotsa fun to come now….
@ Jean
I also thought John Swinney’s statement was really good. Basically saying you may think we’re done but we’re coming for you & referendum is NOT off the table.
Unbelievable that WM thinks that this will quieten down & Scots will go back in their box.
Mr Salmond your country needs you to put rockets up WM asap.
From Anas Sarwar…I replied with one word. Any guesses?
Nana,
A Promise Made and an Agreement Delivered
This is a promise delivered. On 18 September the people of Scotland voted for change. This is what we have delivered today.
• Today’s agreement is the biggest transfer of powers ever devolved
• It will give Scotland a Powerhouse Parliament with control over tax, welfare and jobs alongside health, education, transport and justice
• Under Labour insistence the agreement protects the Barnett formula and the rights of Scottish MPs — this is the best of both worlds.
This is a promise kept and an agreement delivered.
On the 18 September over two million people voted for Scotland to remain in the UK, but they didn’t vote for the status quo — they voted for safer, faster, better change as part of the United Kingdom.
They told us they wanted a stronger Scottish Parliament inside the UK. And they told us they wanted politicians to work together to do that.
We heard the message and today we have kept our promise. We promised that more powers would be agreed by St. Andrew’s Day. We have delivered and agreed the biggest transfer of powers to the Scottish Parliament ever.
This agreement will give Scotland control over tax, welfare and jobs.
• The income tax people in Scotland pay will be set in Scotland
• Benefits that support the disabled and many other benefits like Winter Fuel Payments will be determined by the Scottish Parliament
• The Scottish Government will have more power to create jobs here in Scotland.
But it also means we will still have the strength and security of being part of the United Kingdom.
Today’s agreement also sets out which powers will remain reserved. Things like pensions, National Insurance and Corporation Tax, which all the parties agreed should be reserved.
Labour will deliver on this.
Labour will deliver these powers. We delivered the Scottish Parliament in 1999 and next May we will introduce a new Scotland Bill in our first Queen’s Speech.
Between now and then, the Scottish Labour will focus on how we use these powers to tackle the problems that Scots are facing — dealing with unemployment, improving our schools and hospitals, and making our people better off.
Best wishes,
Anas Sawar
Interim Leader of the Scottish Labour Party
I just cant bring myself to be annoyed about this anymore.
We all knew this was going to happen from the day the Smith stich up was announced. We even knew we’d get shafted while out campaigning for YES.
Its just another bump in the road. Keep your anger in check and carry on to GE15 any beyond.
The earlier comment of SNP having a GE15 commitment to full Devo Max in GE15 manifesto is genius.
It might not be indy, but its another step on the right road and has the potential to bring many No voters in the right direction.
The Record is just a Labour Party toadying fan mag. It has nothing to say of substance or value. Its only interest is in trying to shore up a failing Red Tory party and limit the damage to itself for sucking up to the Blue Tories.
Smith is yet another missed opportunity but we will not miss the opportunity to point out its shortcomings. In that sense it is in fact an opportunity. We must play the longer game (although perhaps not that much longer).
Strange – some of the comments suggest we have some super-speed-readers on here.
Like you, better to digest the thing properly, and in addition see just how far interpretation can be taken by our esteemed politicians.
@Nana
Don’t tempt me. 🙂
There are sooooo many words to choose from where Mr Sarwar is concerned. How and ever we’re all perfectly aware of what Labour’s proposals were when entering into the Smith Commission.
Devolve feck all.
Best comments so far from John Swinney
“Regrettably, the Westminster parties were not prepared to deliver the powerhouse parliament the people of Scotland were promised – under these proposals, less than 30 per cent of our taxes will be set in Scotland and less than 20 per cent of welfare spending will be devolved to Scotland. That isn’t Home Rule – it’s continued Westminster rule.”
Having read the entire report, it really is a crock of shit. Even the income tax powers are full of caveats.
The MSM is going to have to work really hard to sell this con – no doubt Boothman and McQuarrie have their marching orders.
Re APD – “In line with the approach taken in relation to the Scotland Act 2012, if such a tax is introduced by the Scottish Parliament to replace Air Passenger Duty (APD), the Scottish Government will reimburse the UK Government for any costs incurred in ‘switching off’ APD in Scotland..”
Can somebody help me with this. Does it mean we (SG) have to pay the UK gov for any money lost to them because we decide not to charge?
@Macart
Well labour fulfilled their proposals, as you say feck all!
The spinning is in full speed mode right now. I just hope folk see through the lies.
At least the BBC knows what really important. All it seems to be interested in is how quickly this will lead to EVEL. Good on them – Got get the priorities right y’know!
@Jim McIntosh
That is exactly what it means.
The Record has never been anything other than a propaganda sheet for the Labour Party.
Its demise cannot come fast enough.
I never really expected anything from Smith. The whole way it was set up screamed that the recommendations had been written from the start. The rest was just bit of theatrical divertissement.
However, to have come up with absolutely bloody nothing , says to me that Cameron is more interested in taking the piss out of Labour, and Gordon Brown in partiicular. Scotland is just the medium and demonstrates that he thinks we are unwashed thickos. He has nothing to lose.
The Vow was a non existent political declaration designed to trick the People of Scotland into voting No so that nothing would be delivered. Nothing more, nothing less.
At worst it will stall Independence and at best it will help unite Scotland against Westminster and the Unionist parties which infest it.
Labour is a gonner and that is a wee bonus.
A pig in a poke. Not worth the paper its written on. Time to fightback and get Westminster and the brit jock stooges/("Quizmaster" - Ed)s they employ out of Scotland for good. Only then will our country be free from outside interference.
Here’s the list:
Devolved matters
Devolved matters include:
agriculture, forestry and fisheries
education and training
environment
health and social services
housing
law and order (including the licensing of air weapons)
local government
sport and the arts
tourism and economic development
many aspects of transport
Reserved matters
Reserved matters include:
benefits and social security
immigration
defence
foreign policy
employment
broadcasting
trade and industry
nuclear energy, oil, coal, gas and electricity
consumer rights
data protection
the Constitution
Where can I find out more?
The key documents with regard to the powers of the Scottish Parliament are the Scotland Act 1998 and the Scotland Act 2012.
Schedule 5 of the Scotland Act 1998 lists matters that are reserved to the UK Parliament; if a matter is not mentioned in this section, it is devolved to the Scottish Parliament.
see
link to legislation.gov.uk
We expected this
@ Nana
They will if we convince them. Everybody needs to get the word out ‘spin free’ that APD, Crown Estates, partial controls/responsibilities on a handful of significant powers and allowance for consultation on others doesn’t add up to ‘near Federalism’ or home rule. Its bullshit pure and simple. Yet more beads and blankets for the natives.
I think the belief of the public will be, not enough.
@ Jim McIntosh
Yep it does mean that.
Anyone up for Indy after today’s offering which WILL be reduced by WM
The spinning is in full speed mode right now. I just hope folk see through the lies.
Don’t worry, they will over egg it – they always do!
Note to self. Yip, I am up for a referendum on Devo Max in 2018.
The best way to eat a large cake is not all at once, but one bit at a time.
Gordon Brown is expected to say in speech, “The Vow to deliver a stronger Scottish Parliament within the UK has been kept, as promised, and the timetable for draft laws to be published in January will now be honoured, as promised. The Commission, by deciding that income tax is a shared UK tax and savings tax and personal allowances will not be devolved, has rightly rejected the Conservative proposal.
@Macart
Well I have already started, sent all relevant info to all my contacts, a couple of no voters on my list.
Sitting here with my head “stitched up the back” and all I can think of is “Bring Back the Buttons”.
I’m sure there’s a cartoon out there that covers this.
Did anyone spot the words “It’s disaster for Scotland” on that front page? Is there a pro-indy mole employed at the record’s office?
I dont quite understand how Labour are claiming this is a victory for themselves. What exactly have THEY delivered? Iain Gray couldnt even deliver a speech in Central Station so I doubt hes the guy who “rescued” this “great package” for Scots.
Theyve done nothing but poke the bear once again.
Good.
Liking the idea of an SNP General Election Manifesto “We will hold a referendum on Devo Max”.
Inch by inch, death by a Thousand cuts!
Didn’t you predict this very headline Stu?
I’m surprised the DR isn’t taking credit for single handedly tackling the Ebola crisis and winning.
I can’t wait for the headlines where they’ve created Peace and Stability in Russia, Crimea is handed back – Vlad says Sorry.
What ever the lie, we can count on them to print it.
Good thing the National didn’t get stuck into the Smith leaks last night. This being a day late to comment gives them the opportunity to dissect the recommendations & inject some real analysis showing what Smith really means for all Scots in monetary terms.
[…] The biggest lie in history […]
If we have the temerity to use any of these taXES WE MUST COMPENSATE THE TREASURY for their loss AND THAT INCLUDES APD.
We can also continue to compensate our citizens suffering the Westminster imposed bedroom tax.
This is madness.We have to pay for allowing them to rob us. This is not how it works, Ask the dogs in the street.
The list above comes from the Scottish parliament site but strangely doesn’t mention income tax, perhaps because of the note:
The Scotland Act 2012 lists further matters to be devolved to the Scottish Parliament or the Scottish Ministers….. powers over issues such as income tax are not expected to come fully into effect for a number of years.
link to scottish.parliament.uk
Open for comments if anyone wants to….
link to politics.co.uk
The whole Commission was doomed to failure from the outset. I paraphrase the words used but the essence is that the range of proposals was designed so that the UK would not gain or lose in financial terms and that Scotland would not gain of lose in financial terms.
So, Scotland’s pocket money will stay the same, but the denomination of notes and coins will be different.
I thought Smith could not wait to disappear into the background, but his final comment was telling, suggesting that the assembled crowd stay behind and look at the museum. In other words, forget about what I said because it is irrelevant, but have a look at some squirrels and exhibits. On checking the National Museum of Scotland website, it does have some commonality with the Commission. Here is a Labour Party dinosaur:
link to nms.ac.uk
The model of the Lewis chessmen is a fine representation of a Smith Commission meeting
link to nms.ac.uk
Can you tell who is who?
I phoned the Museum and asked them to keep a space for the Daily Record and The Scotsman.
Just for clarification when the Smith Commission has “recommended” new powers does that mean we get them? Or is this a detailed proposal yet to be granted by Westminster? They will have to vote on this, right? Ok – I’m holding my breath…
Rev
I agree completely – the Record article is one big lie encompassing a number of smaller lies. Given the strength of your comments, if I were the author of the article and if I believed that I was not lying, I would sue you. I don’t expect the Record to sue you so I think we can assume that through their (expected) non-action, they are de facto accepting that you are correct.
Like I said yesterday, we got our box of fudge so best eat it up.
Lord Smith does not expect legislation until Sept/Oct 2015: could take 3 or 4 years to fully implement.
@ Nana
Ditto.
I’ve been directing folks here for the past half hour.
We will get nothing no matter how much we moan about it our opinions do not matter but my vote will matter Snp all the way
Are they actually fucking serious?
We have to compensate the Treasury for any changes to the taxes they have devolved?
Seriously?
I passed out and won’t be doing that again.
Cameron just said “I think the report today also makes the case for English votes for English laws unanswerable and we’ll be taking action on that shortly”.
The power to alter traffic lights, has that been devolved?
I hope no reader on this site expected devo-max. Expect maximum spin from the No side.
These ‘powers’ aren’t given, they now have to get through a hostile Westminster Parliamentary process and could easily be rejected by the non-Scots MP’s .
I think the SNP will be quite happy with this behind closed doors. It allows them to put ‘Campaign for full Devo-Max’ as the first pledge on their manifesto for May 2015. It’ll be the vein running through every other manifesto promise. ‘Full-Devo-Max’ will also be a rallying call to all in the YES alliance and will strengthen it. Further weakening Labour.
I hesitate to think that the SNP and Green reps have accepted this report as the best they could get..
Apart from APD, nothing substanial has been gained, everything else is more or less a con. They’re just pretending to give us something.
The most used phrase was … will remain reserved.
However, Chapter 2:
18. It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.
candidate Jim Murphy said the vow of more powers for the Scottish parliament has “not only been delivered but exceeded”.
Scottish parallel universe dweller.
The Vow Delivered,,, ARE THE FUCKING RETARDED?
What has been proposed, from a business perspective, will cause nothing but complications.
I suspect the same of all other matters including welfare, pretending to give autonomy but in reality nothing can be done with it, and it can never bridge the gap of Westminster policy.
@ think again
Yeah, let’s remind ourselves what Labour proposed.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Jim Murphy: “The Vow has not only been delivered but exceeded. Let’s now talk about values and actions. I have set out very clearly what I will do if I am elected Scottish Labour leader and First Minister. I will ask the wealthiest few in Scotland to pay a little bit more tax so that we can support our small businesses and reduce poverty. Nicola Sturgeon must say once and for all whether she would do the same.”
Now let’s see what The Nation is made of.
This is the time to solidly nail its colours to the independence mast; will it disparage the Smith Commission proposals as being well short of Scottish public expectations – the product of a controlling unionist establishment, which paints it as its ‘promise’ and ‘compromise’ and thereby is a hard-won ‘gain’ for the Scots?
Or will it condemn the VOW and its perpetrators, which wrought the NO vote and the Smith Commission into being?
Will it go further to lambast Gordon Brown for endorsing it, if indeed it was the sham the three signatories are now trying to show it to be? Brown’s a political animal. He would never go out on a limb if he didn’t have the strategy all worked out to protect him for doing so. His going ahead with it, makes it all the more certain he knew, if indeed, was not its actual architect?
It’s a clear case of following the money.
Those responsible for the VOW must be unearthed. Crichton’s a proven liar.
The only question I have.
1. How many people are like us, and understand that this is, as expected, a farce?
2. How many people are going to be fooled by Labour volte-face and spin?
3. How many NO voters are going to be angry at this outcome?
4. What is the best graphical representation (easily grasped explanation) of what has happened?
5. How can we confirm 1, reduce 2 and increase number 3… and draw up a variety of our own outcomes for number 4?
That’s all.
This is all the strategy thats needed before May
Your archive.today link seems to have captured the Daily Record’s survey rather than the actual article, Stu.
Isn’t devolving APD this way not the same as saying “we’ve stopped tolls on the Tay Road Bridge, but Dundee council has to pay Fife council £3 for every car that crosses the bridge”.
Nicola Sturgeon sums it up succinctly on Twitter : 70% of taxation & 85% of welfare spending remain reserved to Westminster.
“Powerhouse parliament?”… “Significant new powers?”… “Home rule?”… “Near federalism?”
No, as someone else tweeted earlier, the Jocks are now being told they can stay out to play until 10pm instead of 9pm.
How did the DR arrive at the “budget will nearly double”? Currently we get £37.3bn through the Barnett Formula so for that figure to double we would need to raise £7k additional tax per head, not just per taxpayer. Presumably the readership is as good at sums as their editorial staff and will accept their numbers without question.
Tomorrow’s National should blow all their rubbish out of the water and we need to start leaving our read, or extra, copies on trains, buses, etc. so that the DR readership can get real facts.
Alistair Carmichael has promised Home Rule for the United Kingdom???
David Cameron to bring forward Tory plans for EVEL before Christmas.
Ed Miliband not a happy bunny.
What a lot of not unexpected useless nonsense this Smith report is.
Anything that Scotland can now change, has to have Westminster approval.
Income tax isn’t devolved but rates are. Any change to those rates away from Westminster means that Scotland has to compensate Westminster for any lost income?
10% VAT? What a disgrace.
Preactically all of Pillar 1 items has to be agreed between the two governments, i.e. Westminster has the power of veto.
Anything that is gained is lost through a reduction of the block grant. Westminster maintains the cream.
How come the Panda Party had as much say as the SNP?
The make up of the commission should have been proportional to the Scottish Parliament representation.
Hopefully this report will be rejected by the Goverment of Scotland and the people of Scotland will get a say in the rejection of it.
Basically the Smith report recommends that Scotland gains some new powers, but have to seek the approval of Westminster before they can decide anything worthwhile.
These poxy few powers that rely on Westminster approval, still need to be considered and shortened by the HoC, HoL, and the Queen before they are implemented.
This cannot be acceptable to the Scottish Goverment and will no be accepted by the people of Scotland I hope.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall at SNP right now. Don’t think I’d be hearing any diplomatic opinions on Smith results but they can say they’ve gone through Smith in good faith (as a responsible party should)& that WM has colluded to deny Scots of any power with any substance to change conditions for the better.
If it was me the air would be blue by now 🙂
@Gillie
“I will ask the wealthiest few in Scotland to pay a little bit more tax so that we can support our small businesses and reduce poverty”
Complete nonsense from Murphy, this statement needs to be attacked and deconstructed. The man is a fool.
Here we go. Carmicheal getting his moment in the sun.
English Tory backlash.
Darling already wanting Smith watered down.
Unbridled hatred of SNP.
Ukippers must be loving this.
Looks like someone attempting a deathbed conversion. At this point, that rag will say anything it thinks will help it survive. True or not.
So a commission has been set up to find what the people of Scotland want?
Oh, what shame we do not have a Scottish parliament; the commission could simply ask all the members, who represent the people of Scotland…
FFS. Charmichael brandishing VOW DELIVERS Daily Record. Quotes from the rag so it must true!
Nausea almost as bad as morning of 19th.
Rev,you may like to follow up what Sarah Boyack said on Newsnight 26/11/2014 on tax,she said the first 8yrs of the Scottish Parliament when Slab were in power substantial more resources were available,so does that mean that when the SNP won the election the decision was taken to cut back on the resources for Scotland,just wondering.
I can’t even get angry about this anymore. Did anyone really expect anything different. It’s pish, pure and simple. But it still has to get through wastemonster before it can be implemented and we have all seen how that works. Let them spin away with their lies, it’s all that they’re good for.
o/t picked up my copy of the national this morning, and asked the owner of the shop how it was doing.I said that I hope it’s outselling the retard. “Oh aye she replied, the only paper selling more is the sun”. So it’s outselling retard, herald, scotman, dail heil, telegraph etc. Good news indeed. Hope the National gets stuck into the smith fiasco.
Guess the independence movement is on the march again after the insult of these proposed new powers. When will they ever learn,
No voters were warned vote NO and get NO-thing. Thats exactly how its panned out, they have taken you for utter mugs and fools, question is what are you going to do about it? Toytown diddy powers that amount to the square root of fuck all. You have been had! Independence was a far better prospect in the long run and can’t come quickly enough imo.
@indigo
@Michael
This smells like a Tory and Labour plot to screw over the Scottish govt – they are still working against the Scottish people. I was downcast listening to the RESULT of the smith commission – what a joke. And then I read the comments by Indigo and Michael and Swinney’s statement. A referendum on Devo Max is a brilliant idea. Another step on the road to indy. Once Scotland shows it can run its own finances then a referendum on Indy is more than winnable – after all who wants to be involved in imperialist wars and Trident? Even most No voters don’t want that. Ya sucks to the MSM and BBC – of which no mention so far on that – and yet I bet that was practically top of the list for many submissions. Full steam ahead for GE15 – I can’t wait…
[…] TV or radio today, because Scotland is already enduring an outpouring of concentrated spin and outright deception that perhaps even exceeds that seen in the last few weeks before the independence […]
We don’t need a referendum on devo max, we have a Scottish election in 2016. The SNP manifesto for 2016 should be on a ticket that says if we are elected with a majority government in 2016 we DEMAND devo max from the WG. If that is not agreed to the satisfaction of the Scottish Parliament by the end of that term we will call a second referendum on Indy in 2021.
People who vote in 2016 will then know what they are voting for. The Greens, LFI, etc. can also put something similar in their manifesto. Better than a referendum.
I think you do the Record a grave injustice. The bit about Arthur Montford’s death looks reasonably accurate and I think there is a fair stab at truthful reporting of Andy Murray and Kim Sears engagement.
So, in the words of Meatloaf, 2 out of 3 ain’t bad.
While I agree that the first bullet point is incorrect, I think you spoil the credibility of your piece by then spouting complete tosh yourself.
“Nobody will pay a penny extra to anyone. The amount of tax taken from Scottish taxpayers will be exactly what it is now.”
“It will NOT be responsible for ANY extra spending.”
Neither of these is true if the Scottish Parliament decides otherwise. It already has the power to take more in income tax (and that remains) and Smith suggests “powers to create new benefits in devolved areas and make discretionary payments in any area of welfare.”
[…] (Greens, SNP, LibDems, Tories and Labour) the SNP is already expressing its disappointment and as Wings Over Scotland point out, the Scottish Government’s budget will not change by one […]
@Phil Robertson
Where is the money going to come from to pay for these new benefits then? From the block grant that is being reduced every year.
@Scott
No, the block grant was and is being reduced because of the financial crash of 2007/2008. It has nothing to do with the SNP being elected at Westminster.
being elected at Holyrood.
muttley79 says:
Where is the money going to come from to pay for these new benefits then? From the block grant that is being reduced every year.
Quite simple – the two ingredients are in the post. Raise Sottish income tax rates to give extra money to spend on benefits.
It will probably be filed under “bin” however I’ve made a complaint to IPSO, it’s a start I suppose 🙂
FFS who rattled the “evil” cage
muttley79 says:
Where is the money going to come from to pay for these new benefits then? From the block grant that is being reduced every year.
Quite simple – the two ingredients are in the post. Increase the Scottish rate of income tax and use the increased revenue to pay for the benefits.
I haven’t seen anything about broadcasting,so I take it that it is too risky to let Scotland run its own telly then? Or does it affect the power to swing referendums/elections with political appointments at the wheel?
[…] We’re going to hold off full scrutiny and analysis of the Smith Commission report on devolution until it’s actually released, rather than going on pure speculation like most Scottish newspapers this morning. […]
Macart says:
27 November, 2014 at 9:23 am
I sense more than a little upset 😀
The hardcore NO’s over on the Scotsman are livid and YES’s are disappointed.
There are no winners here today folks.
@ Clootie
You wouldn’t be wrong. 🙂
The Smith report was a waste of time anyway. It’s recommendations won’t get implemented. If the SNP get enough MPs to have an influence in government then they can make sure we get real devolution and not this rubbish. If they don’t, then the whole thing will get binned or, at best, watered down even further.
Get enough MPs and we can be in a position of holding the balance of power, either alone or possibly with Plaid, the Green Party and maybe even any remaining Lib-dems, (who once out of the coalition would have no reason not to support demands for devo-max given that federalism has been their policy for over 100 years.) and we can get a deal that gives us full “Home rule”. From there ’tis but a short step….
Aw FFS.. Arthur Montford’s deid
Lying, manipulating, self serving bastards.
Oh to be alive in the early 14th century when we could have just run these ("Tractor" - Ed)ous bastards through.
Apologies for the language. ‘Rage’ does not cover it.
Phil Robertson
Do us all a favour and get yourself an IQ test. If you get over 50 … i’ll be surprised!
You are either one of the many in this country who get taken in by the lies or you do, in fact not need to take a test (under 50 it is!)
(no apology for the insults)
I phoned Daily Record to complain and tore the editor a new one . everyone should do the same . I told him he had printed a blatant lie in his front cover and he basdiucally accepted that what they had printed was not fact . I told him that he should look around Glasgow at the sheer poverty and start holding WM to account instead off towing the estsblishment line and its for this reason, their sales are down .
Remember we have nothing at all until it passes through the English MPs and the Hoose of Dinosaurs, all with their own targets & agendas to pick the fruit off the lorry as it passes.
We’ll arrive at the final reading with a couple of coconuts and a mouldy banana.
Don’t expect the Daily Record to be decrying this from the front page
What was that the other day about McPravda?
Of ever a newspaper deserved such a title it’s the Daily Record.
If its from Torcuil Crichton it doesn’t really count as a lie, surely?
Westminster giveth with one hand and taketh away (and some) with t’other.
It was ever thus…
We shouldn’t be surprised at the London owned Daily Record, which surely doesn’t have Scots and Scotland at heart. Nor should we be surprised at the actions of Torcuil Crichton he’s been spinning unionist myths especially Labour’s since God knows when.
If you want to hurt these people you need to stop buying the Daily Record permanently.
Utterly dejected right now, I knew that the Smith Commission was going to be a complete utter waste of time, I can’t even begin to get at angry at the crowing attitude of the Unionist parties, yet again, they have delivered a swift boot in ra baws to all the YES voters, seeing John Swinney’s face as Smith spoke summed it all up, he knew.
May 2015 really can’t come quick enough
Graeme Doig says:
Phil Robertson
Do us all a favour and get yourself an IQ test. If you get over 50 … i’ll be surprised!
Graeme Doig says:
Phil Robertson
Do us all a favour and get yourself an IQ test. If you get over 50 … i’ll be surprised!
Good to see the Yes campaign maintaining its intellectual level of debate.
And its gullibility if you accept SC’s incorrect statements in this post!
If you had the slightest inkling as to the premise of SC’s statements you wouldn’t be making such a fool of yourself.
I think i overestimated your IQ my friend.
[…] Meanwhile, the Daily Record continues its blitzkrieg of breathtakingly barefaced bullshit, attempting to simply overwhelm gullible readers with the sheer volume (in both senses of the word) of its spin and flat-out lies. […]
Graeme Doig says:
If you had the slightest inkling as to the premise of SC’s statements …
Is that a garbled justification for presenting untrue statements as facts?
I’m beginning to wonder whether the Smith Commission isn’t just some clever way to undermine the SNP. They have to try their best to improve the lives of Scots with one arm tied behind their back and with austerity cuts from Westminster which they have no control over. With such lies coming from the Press, they will soon find ways to blame SNP Govt for not delivering. It might have been better not to have had the crumbs from the table at all.
[…] shedding a hefty 14% of its readership in the last 12 months, with the Guardian, Daily Mirror and Daily Record close […]