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It’s that headline thing again

Posted on November 08, 2015 by

We saw this tweet from Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson yesterday:

rdtco

And we were quite confused.

Because a week ago we’d read this story in the Scottish Daily Mail:

hatemobtories

It seemed unambiguous.

“The Scottish Tories have been forced to abandon a party conference on police advice after plans emerged for a major protest by a hard-Left hate mob.

In an unprecedented victory for extremism, fears for the safety of Conservative members triggered the ‘depressing’ decision to abandon the Conservative event.

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson, Scottish Secretary David Mundell, former leader Annabel Goldie and MEP Ian Duncan were among those due to address the annual West of Scotland conference in Largs, Ayrshire, next month.

[…]

A Tory spokesman said: ‘The Scottish Conservative west region conference will now no longer be held at the Brisbane House Hotel in Largs on Saturday, November 7.’ A spokesman for Police Scotland added: ‘The decision regarding the event was taken by the organisers in conversation with the proposed venue.

‘Police Scotland officers spoke with the event organisers as a matter of course where a number of options were presented as to the appropriate stewarding requirements for the event.’ The Mail understands the Tories approached the police after discovering online comments about the planned protest.

A party source said the advice came back to cancel the event, unless the party could supply its own security workers.

Mr Sheridan could not be contacted for comment.

Only on a close examination would readers stumble across a line in the story explaining that the conference HADN’T in fact been cancelled at all, but “switched to a secret location on an undisclosed date”, which turned out to be the exact same date it had always been scheduled on.

Despite knowing that fact, the article still went on for paragraph after paragraph about the event being “cancelled” (four mentions), “called off” and “abandoned”, and how the Tories couldn’t afford to hire security (really?) and “cannot risk a repeat” of events at the party’s UK conference, where some people got shouted at a bit.

It’s quite a puzzle that the Mail, which knew all the facts, didn’t run an accurate, truthful story which could still have been headlined “FAR-LEFT HATE MOBS FORCE SCOTS TORIES TO MOVE CONFERENCE” and by the Mail’s standards wouldn’t have required any great change to the tone of the hysterical “Oh, the humanity!” copy.

When we say “puzzle”, of course, we mean “lie”. Always read past the headline, folks.

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      It’s that headline thing again | Speymouth

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    230 to “It’s that headline thing again”

    1. Itchybiscuit says:

      I thought the Tories held the copyright for being THE ‘Hate Mob’.

      I mean, actions do speak louder than words…

    2. tooz says:

      The turnout was crushing

    3. galamcennalath says:

      Also, “Scots Tories” …. really?

      What could possible be Scots about that particular group of people?

      The Tories, local branch or London HQ, are currently about as un-Scots, anti-Scots, non-Scots as you can find in UK politics.

    4. Lollysmum says:

      If you look at RoboStorm’s timeline on Twitter she has posted several photos showing tory attendance as being around 40 people-well attended NOT 🙂

      She also posted video footage of the 2 dozen protesters including one in a wheelchair. Aye-a hate filled mob alright. No wonder the tories were afraid of them. 😉

    5. HandandShrimp says:

      I think all the story showed was that the Tories are terrified of the public. FFS! Cameron had snipers on the roof for his conference.

      The SNP conference in Aberdeen was huge and the security minimal.

      It helps to be well liked Ruth 😉

    6. Steve White says:

      Agree with all above BUT why put ourselves in this position at all ? Just leave them in peace to have their own team meeting and get on with our own business. 40 people we don’t agree with in a room is hardly worth all the negative press

    7. heedtracker says:

      The daily heil’s the hate mob and a bunch of perverts to boot.

    8. Sandy says:

      Secret conferences ?

      What are they so ashamed of ?

    9. Wulls says:

      Actually that’s among the closest to the truth headlines that unionist rag has published for some time.
      There is a semblance of truth in it in that they were “advised” to cancel it.
      The rest is just semantics.
      As you say always read past the headline.
      Problem is that would mean buying it or subscribing.
      I would rather donate to Alastairs defence fund.
      At least there is only one liar involved there.

    10. The Man in the Jar says:

      Its those “burly men” again!

    11. JLT says:

      Why oh why do they do this? Why make up a story just to call it ‘news’? Did they not learn from the ‘Frenchgate’ farce that they will be eventually found out?

      …but then again ..the ‘Frenchgate’ story was nominated as an ‘article of the year’ …so it appears made-up stories not only count, but will be held up as precedents!

      Certainly one thing seems to very clear. Our media act like a certain party within the so-called hallowed Halls of Westminster who are currently our UK government …as in …untouchable, unrepentant and unscrupulous.

      However …it always returns to the simple question of …why? Why the need to make up a story?

    12. John Hamill says:

      People giving the V sign to the Tories just can’t be tolerated we need to cancel

    13. The Man in the Jar says:

      Like I posted above Ruth “tank commander” Davidson has form on this. During the GE she tweeted that voters in Annan (if my memory serves) were being intimidated by (non existant) “burly men”. Now moving their conference for security reasons. Heaven forbid that someone in a wheelchair might shout things at them.

      I think Davidson must imagine that the reds under her bed must have been joined by Nats under her mats.

    14. Schrodingers cat says:

      40′ wow

      Unionist activists numbers are tanking, even packing a hall with journals and taking narrow angle photo can’t hid this anymore.

      The only solution for ruthie is to hide from the media, and social media ridicule

    15. Capella says:

      The story was obviously an attack on Tommy Sheridan and Hope Over Fear:

      “Mr Sheridan could not be contacted for comment”

      that must be a first!

    16. heedtracker says:

      Why oh why do they do this? Why make up a story just to call it ‘news’?

      Its probably just UKOK hackdom spill over from what’s brewing again in London and they do like to spread their own hard core toryboy problems around.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34755336

    17. paul says:

      Alex Fergusson msp wrote pretty much the same story in local paper the galloway news

    18. mealer says:

      A small group of people on the right wing lunatic fringe of Scottish politics had to shift venue for fear of some noisey protesters turning up.The attendees might be mostly elderly,with some no doubt being quite frail,but I’m sure they’re thick enough skinned to put up with a bit of shouting.I think the organisers of this conference showed an opinion of their attendees which borders on condescension.The elderly,in general,are quite capable of participating fully in fringe politics with all the hustle and bustle that often entails in any democracy.

    19. Balaaargh says:

      #TeamTory

      Love it.

    20. HandandShrimp says:

      I think it was Sean and his loudhailer that they were frightened of 🙂

    21. Jim Mitchell says:

      Now lets be honest, the Mail knows a thing or two when it comes to hating!

    22. Bill Hume says:

      I’m with Capella…..WTF has Sheridan got to do with this??

    23. Chic McGregor says:

      75 attendees expected? Not a major relocation exercise then. They could just all decant to a local McDonalds, sorry too many Scottish connotations there – Burger King maybe.

    24. Mosstrooper says:

      The answer to why the Daily Wail published this article can be found in the editorial comment.

    25. Grouse Beater says:

      Tories will meet in a railway siding in Whitburn rather than allow Scotland to reduce them to a seagull’s dropping.

      The right-wing press headlining lies is a long tradition.

      Chavez got so frazzled by newspaper owners publishing brazen lies that he set up a group of lawyers to take the sods to court.

      He also tried to outwit the far-Right’s agenda by taking monthly ‘meet the president’ gatherings in towns and villages, answering questions from locals, quite a strain to organise, and for him too when he was ill.

      The British press called his action, respectively, anti-democratic and laughable.

      Here’s my offering on the Tory party: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2mq

    26. Almannysbunnet says:

      I’ve seen more people at an SNP branch meeting in Westhills.

    27. mealer says:

      John Hamill 11.07

      I’m not entirely sure the girl in the photo with the red top on is,actually,giving the V sign.Note that her thumb is resting over her second finger with her index finger in a forward position.I think she’s simply pointing and laughing at the Tories.Given the reputation the Tory leader has for his after dinner antics this is hardly surprising.Pointing and laughing at anyone isn’t something I condone,but I can understand why it might happen.

    28. Stoker says:

      “hate mob” ?????

      The only hatred i can see on that page of The Nazi Mail is on the contorted and demented twisted face of Rancid Raging Ruthy.

    29. Richardinho says:

      Is this another of wee Ruthie’s lies by chance?

    30. Another Union Dividend says:

      A slow news day to-day as Labour luvvies hail Dugdale as the new Jim Murphy the hammer of the Nats.

      These journalists completrly ignore fact that Labour called for non existent APD cash to be used for Education in article in Holyrood Magazine then a day later to pay for tax credit cuts. The Labour money tree never stops giving.

      I wouldn’t trust them to run a whelk store with Ian Gray as finance minister.

      March 2003: Jack McConnell’s transport minister, one Iain Gray, awards £375m from the Scottish Executive’s integrated transport fund to said city council to build tram lines to serve the north and west, the first to be running by 2009. Mr Gray says the money would pay for “at least” the North Edinburgh Loop. After spending at least £750 million there is no North Edinburgh loop.

      Last week all Labour MSPs voted against a motion calling for tax credits, employment rights and the minimum wage to be devolved. But you wan’t read that or hear it on TV.

    31. orri says:

      http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/10/protesters-force-scottish-conservatives-to-cancel-event.html

      But one of the benefits of being part of a common, British party is that we can support each other. If Police Scotland won’t uphold their right to peaceful political organisation and private security is what it takes for the Scottish Tories to campaign ahead of next May’s elections, CCHQ should pay for it.

      Police Scotland are under no obligation to provide free security for any political rally of any size. The Lib Dems put paid to that idea when they didn’t pick up the tab.

      Not sure about the number being as low as 40. There does seem to be close to 75 in that photo. That said they would have been outnumbered by 4 to 1 if the protest had gone ahead.

    32. Andrew Morton says:

      That photo looks as if it was actually taken in one of the Brisbane House function suites.

    33. Sharny Dubs says:

      Seems a bit odd when your official conference photograph looks suspiciously like a selfie! Hee hee

    34. Stoker says:

      Sandy wrote:
      “Secret conferences? What are they so ashamed of?”

      The truth and decades, if not centuries, of paedophilia.

    35. Stoker says:

      Almannysbunnet wrote:
      “I’ve seen more people at an SNP branch meeting in Westhills”

      I’ve seen more people at an SNP branch meeting in Outer Mongolia.

    36. Anagach says:

      Oh come on Stu. Its obvious that the article was an attempt to lure the protesters into a false sense of achievement while the venue was switched in a stunningly subtle misdirection.

      After all every “hard-Left hate mob” reads the Daily Mail (Scottish Branch version).

    37. donald anderson says:

      She could have used an Orange Hall.

    38. Macart says:

      Strangely, as soon as saw the image of tank commander and read Scottish Daily Mail, I knew we’d be travelling a well beaten trail of reactionary fibs and guff. 🙂

    39. DerekM says:

      ha they had to do this or nobody would have noticed they were having a conference or care for that matter.

      As for oor Tommy not being available for comment aye right,dont you mean you didnt ask.

      Typical lying tories trying to play the sympathy card to deflect the fact their conference is empty,and now they will say it was because they had to hold it in secret through a fear of intimidation,which is rich coming from tories.

    40. Gary45% says:

      So the mail didn’t run an accurate, truthful story!!!! Have they ever?
      The reason the Tories had a secret conference was, they were sacrificing a the pig according to “call me Dave” rituals.
      Pass the Pig, you choose, nuf said

    41. Clootie says:

      …I keep reading/hearing political pundits stating that Scotlad and England are not very different in their political stance…..REALLY!

    42. galamcennalath says:

      Photo. Frightening scenes from Manchester? Most of the ‘protestors’ seem to be brandishing cameras. Clearly from the CorpMedia and we know these people are only ever out to cause trouble.

    43. Stoker says:

      Take a very close, enlarged, look at the top Ruthy selfie picture.
      Three poppies in the foreground and not-a-one among the zombies in the background – well, possibly just one! Suspicious or what?

    44. ClanDonald says:

      Aww, the nursing home went on an outing to the seaside for their tea and that nice young lady, Ruth, came to take a photo. Bless.

    45. HandandShrimp says:

      Perhaps it was an attempt to make the Scottish Tories seem interesting.

      ….albeit an impossible task. Mundell is walking Mogadon.

    46. Grouse Beater says:

      Donald: She could have used an Orange Hall.

      🙂

    47. JLT says:

      heedtracker says:

      Its probably just UKOK hackdom spill over from what’s brewing again in London and they do like to spread their own hard core toryboy problems around.

      The thing is Heedtracker, the politics of the United Kingdom is slowly moving ever deeper into darker waters …waters that once tore Britain apart.

      At the moment, I’m studying in my Uni course, the reasons for the ‘War of the Three Kingdoms’ (or as it was once known as ‘The English Civil War’). Certainly from the University point of view, the war is no longer just looked upon as a period in English history. The academic viewpoint that this was a British civil war even though three countries were independent (Scotland, England and Ireland). 3 Crowns; 3 Kingdoms; 1 King …and whole bag of factors that eventually imploded on his highness, Charles I.

      One factor that did raise an eyebrow for me was that England under the King was designated the chief Kingdom of his 3 crowns. It was England who was allowed to have a navy; Scotland and Ireland didn’t. Foreign policy belonged to England; Scotland and Ireland under the union of these crowns were not allowed to have a foreign policy incase it put two of his crowns in opposing camps with other European powers. Thanks to the ‘Union of Crowns’ in 1603, only England through the right of ‘absolute monarchy’ under Charles, was allowed to have ‘full-sovereignty’ as a recognised ‘State’ within these islands.

      And also, what is fascinating is the analysis as to what caused it. As one historian, Trevor-Roper stated:

      ‘The main dispenser of wealth was the court, in the broadest sense; the crown itself, the swollen royal household, the whole body of office-holders who constituted the government and judiciary, the rich merchants who profited from royal monopolies and, membership of exclusive chartered companies, and by extension all those members of the county elites who benefited from the patronage of royal officials and courtiers’.

      In modern day speak, you could take that extract and place the analysis of it on today’s Royal Family, the billion-dollar companies avoiding to pay tax, the control of the markets by the city (modern day merchants), and the promoting of the system revolving around ‘patronage’. Eventually, it sickened the population that much, that eventually it led to riots over a number of things; religion, taxation and poverty.

      Now, a major part of the war revolved around religion; Episcopalian England v Presbyterian Scotland v Catholic Ireland. And yes, I know it’s not the same thing, but look at the results from the General Election; Tory England v SNP Scotland v Labour Wales v DUP Northern Ireland. Religion split the nations in the 17th Century; political outlook splits the nations in the 21st Century.

      Now, I’m not predicting civil war (because it just won’t happen; the odd riot …Yes; civil war …No. It’s just not going to happen!), but with the current economic factors under a very unpopular government, the threat of being pulled from the richest economic union in the world, poverty on the rise, taxes on the rise, the grand promoting of the Royal Family at every turn, the political diversity of the home nations, and an ‘absolute rule’ of Westminster over tax, defence and foreign affairs …and a media that is far, far too close to the right, and you have the potential of Britain being torn apart once again, but in the sense, that what eventually led to the demise of ‘absolute power’ of the monarchy in the 17th century, will most likely in 21st Century Britain, fuel the demise and end of the ‘Union’ and Westminster’s ‘absolute rule’.

      It is interesting times that we live in …and by the looks of things, lightening can strike twice in the same place; different century, different outcome …but same set of factors leading to it.

    48. Ken500 says:

      They weren’t very popular at Manchester, either.

    49. Stoker says:

      Gary45% wrote:
      The reason the Tories had a secret conference was, they were sacrificing a pig according to “call me Dave” rituals.Pass the Pig”

      New blue Tory anthem – Pass The Piggy On The Right Hand Side.
      (sung to the tune of Musical Youths Pass The Dutchie)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFtLONl4cNc

    50. Martin Wood says:

      O/T since this is thread highlights the irrelevance of the Tories….

      The term “Labour Policy” really gives too much credit and gravitas to the source……I think a more apt term is “Labour Brainfart”

      How else can you describe the latest attempt by labours glitterati to sell us the idea you can get money for free just by looking for it……Brainfart does nicely….

      It rolls of the tongue….”Kezia’s latest Brainfart is….” “Today Jackie Bailie Brainfarted her way through an interview with Gordon Brewer…”

      With this s new description the “Labour Party Manifesto” becomes……the Labour Parties Collected Brainfarts ( jar optional)

      I fell it would gave any potential reader a more accurate picture of the contents

    51. Lollysmum says:

      It’s those hardcore Scots Tory activists-too many to count lol

      https://twitter.com/The45Storm/status/663087642184126464

    52. Conan the Librarian™ says:

      “A record low average of 73”

      Is that age or IQ?

    53. The Man in the Jar says:

      @JLT

      Good comment. Glad to see the term “The War of the Three Kingdoms” being used.

      I could never understand why if it was supposed to be “The English Civil War” then why did it kick off when Jenny Geddes threw a prayer stool at the minister in St Giles Cathedral Edinburgh?

      At least Wikipedia is up to date on this.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Geddes

    54. carjamtic says:

      Non compos mentis…

    55. heedtracker says:

      JLT says:
      8 November, 2015 at 12:39 pm
      heedtracker says:

      It is fascinating to look at even the last 300 years of how power is held and used. We certainly got a demonstration of British power in Scotland last year with their historic Project Fear but really just the modern kind. Things are completely different in 21st century UK/England

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

      Uk/England’s the fifth highest GDP in the world according to wiki, Our chums in the south have done this mostly by pumping hundreds of billions into England’s infrastructure. Underwritten by NOT Scots oil and gas revenues, economic stability for the UK majority is the only way regimes like the theocratic elitism the UK actually is, can stay in power and that’s what they’ve been doing for over 40 years.

      Scotland has always been at the bottom of the pile because that works for England, in all kinds of ways. The majority in Scotland agreed to it all last year, partly because they are British and partly because they don’t want to change how UKOK economics works for them, so far.

      As long as the majority are alright, so is UKOK. Scots arent blind and want to do the same to Scotland that England has done and while there is still some oil left.

      That’s why Scots want devo max, why our friends in the south said OK, vote NO and have it in The Vow, which they then turned into a weapon designed entirely to make Scotland worse off, bring down SNP Scots.gov, block Scotland’s road to independence. And if Scots do accept this staggering fraud, it could be UKOK’s biggest mistake.

      So it’s a long way from the 17th century:D

    56. Papadox says:

      Could Ruffy not have arranged for her O/O and BNP bully boys to do a repeat of George Square attack on independant supporters. Ruffies Rabble by Royal appointment.

    57. Brian Powell says:

      Jackie Baillie tells an outright lie in saying Kezia Dugdale did not say she would use APD for education.

      Holyrood Mandy corrects her, as she did the interview with Kezia.

      Media rush to ignore that.

    58. Graham says:

      Having to move it to a secret location is pretty bad.

    59. Jack Murphy says:

      OT.FILM. Episode 2 of ‘Altered State’ has been released today.
      23 minutes.

      In a campaign that saw the unionist parties prepared to destroy themselves to win, perhaps the real winner was the newly politically aware Scottish public who are still deeply engaged in a conversation about their constitutional future, a debate that seems destined to arrive at only one conclusion. 🙂

      This episode includes interviews with Derek Bateman, Janice Galloway, James Kelly, Paul Kavanagh (Wee Ginger Dug) and Christopher Silver.

      http://tinyurl.com/q3qsdvq

    60. mealer says:

      Gary45% 12.31

      I wonder if etiquette dictates which way the pig is supposed to be passed.

    61. galamcennalath says:

      OT A thought for today, Remembrance Sunday …

      https://archive.is/CRc8Z

      “at various times the British have invaded almost 90 per cent of the countries around the globe. The analysis of the histories of the almost 200 countries in the world found only 22 which have never experienced an invasion by the British.”

      … and who’s next?

    62. Kennedy says:

      Shame.

      Those poor Tory Ba$tard$.

    63. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Mealer, to the left. The Por(t/k) is always passed to the left.

    64. David McDowell says:

      Meanwhile BBC Scotland continues its campaign to make Alex Salmond look like he’s making Nazi salutes…

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34759988

    65. Petra says:

      I notice that the Daily Mail is doing its usual blatant manipulation act.

      The article to the left starts off by mentioning ‘hard left hate mob’ and ‘after Tommy Sheridan’s far left pro-Independence Solidarity party organised a protest’. It goes on to mention what happened at the anti-Tory protest meeting down south ….. eggs / other objects thrown, spitting and so on.

      Then near the end of the article the SNP get dragged into it through them mentioning that Trish Byrne organisor had invited, via facebook, anti-austerity, anti-fracking, Greens, SNP etc etc to come along.

      That moves on to ”Sheridan an attendee …..other people planning to go have online profile photographs carrying the SNP logo (could be anyone) although there are no Labour emblems”.

      God you couldn’t make it up ….. like them!

      Anyway after ultimately managing to move the thuggery data from Tommy Sheridan to the SNP the whole article on the right (Bullies Wont Win) refers to the SNP with absolutely NO mention of Tommy Sheridan / solidarity at all.

      Such as ”we have seen the SNP councillors burn a copy of the Smith Commission report in a scene terribly reminiscent of the antics of totalitarian thugs in Europe in the 1930’s” …… ”we saw too the unruly mob that tried to intimidate BBC journalists over their coverage of the independence referendum and were stunned when then First Minister Alex Salmond called the heckling crowds antics joyous and peaceful” etc etc etc.

      How many people are being taken in and brainwashed by this type of journalistic garbage?

    66. Grouse Beater says:

      When trying to avoid a heated discussion (usually among polite society where dispute should be avoided!) asked why I think Scotland should be independent again, I give a brief answer:

      The Act of the Union is unequivocal – ‘we are equal and sovereign’. I add that has not been the case since the inception of the Act and gets worse by the decade.

      The answer comes back that the north of England suffers the same democratic deficiencies. I answer, they should make representation to the UK parliament. England did not make a Treaty with the North of England. It made a Treaty with another nation. I am concerned with my own nation’s democracy, and if we can improve matters perhaps the north of England will follow our example for the good of the English nation.

    67. A2 says:

      I see they also managed to drop in a “Snp Bad” in the right hand “bullies won’t win” panel, so linking the SNP to the “hate mob”

    68. brobb says:

      Off topic but – Just watched Gordon Brewer interview John Swinney on Sunday Politics. I have a high regard for Mr Swinney but I don’t understand why he and other SNPers can’t just answer the question “why won’t they say that they will follow Labour and commit to completely mitigating tax credit cuts” with a very clear “nobody in any responsible position should promise something that might not be possible no matter how good it appears”. I think they are all skirting round this and I don’t understand why they can’t just come out and say it, showing Labour up for making empty promises.

      The same goes for the tax rates – if the top rate goes up so does the bottom under the convoluted system proposed. I fear the SNP are in danger of losing one of their key strengths which is to speak plainly and openly about the way things stand.

      Having said that I’m not surprised they are tight lipped about their plans with both the Tories and Labour ready to pounce and rubbish them, while simultaneously ready to steal or thwart any good ideas. Not to mention endless interviews and discussions being interrupted and talked over, while the other parties are let speak unchallenged.

      And another thing (might as well vent when I’m here) why aren’t the Tories facing the same ridicule and mockery as the Lib Dems when u-turning on tuition fees, did not David Cameron clearly state tax credits weren’t at risk pre-election? Really, if it wasn’t for the sanity of Wings my blood pressure would be through the roof and I’d be facing the trauma of treatment at one of our truly terrible hospitals, probably in a corridor on a trolley 🙂

    69. Adam Davidson says:

      Are you sure that is their conference and not a visit to a Largs old folks home? Look, the old dears fished out their Sunday best and the old boys put on their doctor ties, isn’t that nice.

    70. MJack says:

      10% of people in Scotland plan to vote for the conservatives in next years Holyrood election. The question is, why so many?

    71. De Valera says:

      At least they’re not blaming it on he SNP. I saw the line saying 75 delegates were to attend and thought, “Wow, that many?”

      The Tories are the second biggest hate mob, Labour (S******d branch), the first.

    72. mealer says:

      MJack 2.57

      Why so many? I think it’s largely down to the increase in longevity among wealthier people.

    73. MJack says:

      Brobb, the cons haven’t put through their proposals yet so anyone who says they will mitigate it with X pounds is a lier because they dont know what that figure will be and why should the Scottish Government mitigate any of these non devolved, reserved matters, 55% of people (a clear majority) in Scotland voted for Westminster governance, so this is what they get, suck it up.

      Mitigation would mean us giving UK gov money for things like the Bedroom tax (which is a London housing issue)and paying Westminster to top up money they cut from some tax credits but we would be making the same contribution to Westminster with nothing in return!

    74. Dan Huil says:

      Is Davidson’s photo an advert for Saga?

    75. Grouse Beater says:

      Brobb: ” I think [the SNP] are all skirting round this and I don’t understand why they can’t just come out and say it, showing Labour up for making empty promises.”

      That was one of Swinney’s better interviews. He can be hellishly circumlocutory and long-winded.

      In this case I can understand his disinclination to give a specific answer other than the SNP will do all it can, but announce what that is when he knows Osborne’s precise conditions and exceptions.

      And you and I know Westminster is loading the dice against the SNP to drive voters back to the traditional parties. They do that simply by piling on cuts to welfare and then have people here cry with pain to the SNP to do something.

      Well, they might consider voting for independence and full democracy next Referendum.

    76. Petra says:

      @ Lollysmum says at 12:55 pm ”It’s those hardcore Scots Tory activists-too many to count lol.”

      https://twitter.com/The45Storm/status/663087642184126464

      Pleased to see that around 95% of the 40 / 50 odd in attendance seem to be very elderly indeed. No youngsters interested in the Tories? Is the party dying off altogether in Scotland?

      And in this photograph (this page) as someone mentioned already no-one in the background is wearing a poppy. Great what photo-shopping can do!

      @The Man in the Jar says at 1:06 pm ”JLT … Good comment. Glad to see the term “The War of the Three Kingdoms” being used. I could never understand why if it was supposed to be “The English Civil War” then why did it kick off when Jenny Geddes threw a prayer stool at the minister in St Giles Cathedral Edinburgh? At least Wikipedia is up to date on this.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Geddes

      Some interesting information on the site about the War of the Three Kingdoms and that link gave me a real laugh, Man in the Jar. Compare what went on in that Cathedral / streets with the anti-Tory protest in Manchester / the probability of what would have happened at the proposed protest in Largs. The Daily Mail must be ‘beiling’ that times have changed so much. They could have made a real meal (absolute banquet) out of that riot.

    77. Thepnr says:

      @Mosstrooper

      The answer to why the Daily Wail published this article can be found in the editorial comment.

      Maybe, though for sure the answer why they published this article can also be found in the comments. Nasty Nats! LOL.

      TheBroker, Glasgow, United Kingdom, 1 week ago
      “I was due to attend this conference. I’m bitterly dissapointed that my political views can attract such physical risk such as this. The nats are a dangerous and a toxic element withinin Scottish society.”

      Stoat, Seattle, United States, 1 week ago
      “That’s the totalitarian foundation of the Left on full display….they don’t have truth or facts on their side so instead of admitting they’re wrong they shut down any opposing thought or opinion and prevent it from being expressed. That’s the Left’s template worldwide. They lost the argument decades ago and have been living off of hate, intimidation, fear and brownshirt tactics ever since.”

      peterr, glos, 1 week ago
      “I notice that Sturgeon doesn’t condemn this. Tells us all we need to know about the SNP and her hate-filled, bullying credentials. Truly the Nasty Party.”

    78. brobb says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      “And you and I know Westminster is loading the dice against the SNP to drive voters back to the traditional parties. They do that simply by piling on cuts to welfare and then have people here cry with pain to the SNP to do something”.

      You and I and everyone else on here knows that but a bit plainer speaking might get the point across to the rest of Scotland. Such a roundabout carefully diplomatic response can come across as plain shifty to the unaware, though it is fun to see the exasperated response from Brewer et al.

    79. ben madigan says:

      @ heedtracker and jack murphy “We certainly got a demonstration of British power in Scotland last year with their historic Project Fear but really just the modern kind”

      The Phantom Power film teaches lessons on this point that need to be assimilated as Scotland and ireland move into elections next year.

      You’ll find both parts here https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2015/11/08/phantom-power-how-the-uk-won-the-scottish-referendum/

    80. Capella says:

      @ Andrew Morton 12.01
      “That photo looks as if it was actually taken in one of the Brisbane House function suites.”

      There’s a logo at the back of the room where Ruth is taking her selfie. It certainly looks like “Brisbane” but the resolution is too poor to read it properly. Maybe someone with better software can make out what it says?

    81. Robert Kerr says:

      O/T sorry but!

      Telegraph article re SNP as real opposition at Westminster.

      Reality check from Lichfield !

      Enjoy.

      https://archive.is/EpC50

    82. Dr Jim says:

      I want the name of the person or people who said they couldn’t find Tommy Sheridan…. Jeez

      John Swinney will say nothing about the SNP proposals on anything until he knows exactly what Westminster comes up with
      And even then why would he use a “plan” of Labours, that’d be like saying they were competent, and that’s never going to happen

      The fear of “Burly raping men” Tory Conference moved to the same time on the same day as it was never moved either too or from in the first place
      Wee Ruthless Davidson must be changing tanks, she keeps dreaming about these same men doing stuff

      Did we see the threatening “Mob” It was like a care home outing with their Grandkids for the day, although the ones in the wheelchairs could have done some serious damage nudging into the Tories with their Michelin Tyres

    83. Iain More says:

      I assume that the Daily Zeegs definition of a far left hate mob is those people who don’t think Mien Kampf is a classic of 20th century literature.

    84. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Having to move it to a secret location is pretty bad.”

      Define “having to”.

    85. yesindyref2 says:

      Conferences and meetings are totally legal, but you’d expect them to provide basic security, a couple of bouncers at the door for a small event, even if just to stop the odd drunk trying to get into the bar. For a big organised event, marshalls, car park and additional internal and external security are, I think, mandated.

      Demonstrations are legal, I guess organisers are supposed to notify in advance, but I’m not convinced they should have to. Protest is a part of democracy. It’s part of police duty to keep the peace and prevent or minimise disruption, so anyone who organises a conference or meeting shouldn’t really be expected to pick up the tab, it’s a public duty of the police.

      As far as snipers for the Tory conference with Cameron, there’s SO1 for protecting the PM and ministers, key public figures and MPs even, SO14 for the royals, SO6 for diplomats. It was called differently years ago but it’s basically unchanged, these officers will be highly firearms trained, some on close duty, often topped up by also highly trained armed plainclothes officers, mingling with the crowd, that goes back at least to the 60s, for example in the days of “piper tiger” demonstrations outside the Chinese embassy in London. They will also protect the First Minister when neccessary.

      Currently the terrorism status is at high alert.

    86. JLT says:

      @Heedtracker
      @The Man in the Jar
      @Petra

      One thing I must admit to, is at least the Open University have recognised that the ‘English civil war’ was the wrong terminology for what was a British civil war. They have emphasised throughout the course that both Scotland and Ireland not only participated in the two wars, but both entered it for their own personal and unique reasons, and have thus, actually enriched the history of the war, rather than it being perceived as uniquely English.

      The events of the wars would in essence, eventually lead to the Act of Union. From the ‘absolute rule’ of kings, which was questioned through the wars, would eventually lead to the beginnings of constitutional monarchy under the ‘glorious revolution’ of William III (Yep …that William) …to finally Scotland being dragged to the table, and under the ‘absolute rule’ of Westminster.

      Scotland has not been a fully-sovereign state since the Union of Crowns when James VI bolted for London to be crowned James I. When he did that, he took Scotland’s foreign policy, navy and even Scotland’s ability to have ambassador’s with him. All those things that had belonged to Scotland, became part of England’s sphere of influence. This has all been going on since 1603.

      You could say that for Scotland, the Union of Crowns was the beginning in our decline as a sovereign state, only to be ‘extinguished’ (if we listen to Mr Mundell who uses this terminology) under the Act of Union (at which point, most of us go ‘Aye right Mr Mundell! Extinguished my backside!’)

      Scotland in one sense, swapped one ‘absolute ruler’ (a King) for another (Westminster).

      A bit deep, eh!

    87. Grouse Beater says:

      Brobb: “carefully diplomatic response can come across as plain shifty to the unaware”

      Yes, he could do with lessons in plain English. At least Swinney didn’t have a sweaty pate, his usual handicap under hot studio lights, a make-up artist not keen to help ‘coz she votes unionist. 🙂

    88. JLT says:

      On top of my last comment, you could say, that is why some Unionists froth at the mouth by saying that ‘Scotland ceased to exist after 1707, and England didn’t’. The possible idea being that thanks to James VI when he took parts of Scotland’s ‘sovereignty’ with him, and ‘attached it to England’s own ‘sovereignty” through his ability of being ‘absolute ruler’, then the Act of Union would be the final nail in Scotland’s status as remaining a ‘sovereign nation’.

      However, times have changed, and in our own eyes, as well as the world, we are officially recognised as having always been a ‘sovereign nation’ …much to the chagrin of the Unionists who would have us believe otherwise.

    89. Schrodingers cat says:

      Having to……

      Not wishing to reveal the paucity of you support. Scared of photographs that reveal you are nothing more than a front for the MSM with no support or activists in Scotland

      Hint, if wings were to organize an event, the media wouldn’t report it, but it would still happen

      Definintion of having to

    90. Finnz says:

      I believe the secret password for entry to this coven was

      “fundily Mundily”

    91. Giving Goose says:

      Apologies for going O/T and if this has already been touched on.

      Did anyone catch George Galloway on LBC Radio on Thursday or Friday (I was staying away and had limited access to the Internet otherwise I’d have posted it there and then)?

      Galloway was being questioned regarding rumours that he’d be welcomed back into the Labour Party.

      Galloway then talked about several subjects including Tom Harris ex MP.

      According to Galloway, Harris begged Galloway (I’m sure Galloway used the phrase “practically on bended knee) to assist him during the recent General Election by speaking in Harris’ then constituency on Harris’ behalf.

      I only had one ear on the radio at the time but I thought “that’s interesting!”

    92. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      JLT at 4.53

      I am continually puzzled by the affection some Scots have for the Stuarts as they were the original unionists.
      Had “Bonnie Price Charlie” stopped at the border we would be an independent country today

      I see mention also of “good King Billy” (The Third of England, the Second of Scotland) who affected a trade embargo against Scotland, connived at the destruction of the Darien Scheme and signed the order (twice) for the massacre of Glencoe. Nice to see Scots eejits marching in his honour every Twelfth of July and their brother “loyalists” in NI,the only part of the British Empire to refuse conscription in WW2.

    93. Bill Fraser says:

      And more rubbish!Who in Scotland reads this lying trashy unionist rag except the blue brigade of Westminster??

    94. Lesley-Anne says:

      So wee Ruthie cancelled her *ahem* event in the Brisbane House Hotel in Largs and *cough* transferred the *ahem* event to inside her leetle tankette! Would this therefore count as an extremely moving conference? 😀

    95. PJ says:

      Secrecy suits these types. It is almost a natural inclination for them. Maybe it’s so they can all wear their aprons.

      “The very word secrecy is REPUGNANT in a free and open society..”
      JFK 1963

    96. Capella says:

      A small but determined group of rabid separatists protested outside the hotel – one in a wheelchair. Terrifyng. The hotel staff invited them in for a warming cup of tea.
      http://livestream.com/45Storm/ToryProtest

      “The hotel manager invited all us “angry nationalists & extremists” in for tea! A source from the hotel said there were about 40 delegates booked for Tory Conference and Scottish Tory party cancelled it. Due to lack of interest? Was Ruth Davidson hiding from the people she is paid to represent ? Who knows…”

    97. dakk says:

      The people in that room seem very content and happy with life.

      Why would they want anything to change apart from the dates on their birth certificates ?

      They’ve got the lot.

      One thing missing from all of them however.

      A soul.

    98. JLT says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      I am continually puzzled by the affection some Scots have for the Stuarts as they were the original unionists.
      Had “Bonnie Price Charlie” stopped at the border we would be an independent country today.

      Absolutely agree that the Stuarts always wanted to unite the crowns of Scotland and England, but it was not to create a ‘Great Britain’, but for the more selfish reasons that monarchs in those times, wanted land and all the wonderful trappings that came with it for both personal prestige and dynastic power.

      The concept of a ‘Great Britain’ was ancient. Even Edward I (Longshanks) way back in the13th Century had designs of uniting the crowns of Scotland and England by having his son marry the infamous Scottish-Norweigian Queen, Margaret ‘Maid of Norway’ (the one who died on her way to Scotland). Her death was the reason that Edward imposed his will on Scotland because he realised that ‘union of crowns’ had vanished with her death. If she had lived, and Edward had married her, then the first child born would have been King-Queen over two Kingdoms. A union of Great Britain might have happened much, much earlier that 1707.

      As to your other point about Bonnie Prince Charlie and if he hadn’t crossed the border …I just can’t see Charles remaining King for long in Scotland. I believe England would have invaded on-force to remove Charles. The fear that a Catholic King (even though it is hinted that Charles in time would have changed his religion to suit the needs of the nation) would have worried England greatly. The fear of another ‘civil war’ would have been in the mindset of MP’s in Westminster, and the possible threat of once again ‘a war on two fronts’ (Scotland and France) would also have weighed heavily.

      It’s an interesting ‘what if’ if Charles had remained only in Scotland. Would we have remained independent …or would we be ‘conquered’ and have had severe punishment meted out on Southern Scotland (just as it would on the Jacobite Highlands – for this is how England might have perceived Southern Scotland if it had accepted Charles as King – becoming ‘Jacobite’). We jumped before in the Civil Wars; we fought against Charles I, then accepted him as our King …only for Cromwell to crush us bitterly as we had ‘swapped’ sides. Doing this with Bonnie Prince Charlie would have been deemed that the Scots had ‘swapped sides’ once more, for that is how England might have looked at it.

      1746 might have been an extremely bad year in Scottish history if we look through the prism of ‘what if’. It would not only have been the Highlands that would have been put to the sword.

    99. JLT says:

      and Edward had married her

      Edward II …Edward’s son.

    100. Les Wilson says:

      The photo is definitely altered by photoshop. It is clear, the three in front have poppies, no other member of the audience has one. At this time, all tories will be instructed to wear them at all public events. A labour style mistake, well they do confide in each other lot. Stupid must be catching.

    101. Capella says:

      @Les Wilson
      Actually, I noticed at SLAB’s conference the platform all wore poppies but the rank and file didn’t. Probably because the TV cameras would be there so the top table wanted to look patriotic?

    102. The Man in the Jar says:

      Seeing how it is late on and there has been some discussion of Scotland’s history may I go off topic a wee bit and give a plug.

      Saturday 14th November there will be a commemoration of the 300th anniversary of the Battle of Sheriffmuir (1715) the format will be to meet at the Sheriffmuir Inn at 2pm and walk to the McRae monument for a short service and wreath laying.

      Some of us who still sing the auld songs will be in attendance as well as the current Earl of Marr. Give the Earl his due he turns up every year and has the (good natured) piss taken due to his ancestor “Bobbin John”. For those not familiar with the battle it was a classic “Scots (led by Marr) snatching defeat from the jaws of victory” stuff.

      There’s a (ticket only) ceilidh afterwards where there will be many toasts (in claret naturally) to “The King over the water” and “To the Gentleman in the Black Velvet Waistcoat”

    103. David McDowell says:

      That selfie reminds me of the final scene from “Rosemary’s Baby”.

    104. The Man in the Jar says:

      @JLT

      Regarding Charles Edward Stuart. It was in CES`s manifesto read out at Glenfinnan on the 19th of August 1745 that if his father was returned to the throne of Great Britain that he would reinstate the independent Scottish parliament.

      Okay it was no doubt a wee bribe aimed at the various clan chiefs who probably fancied a nice comfy seat in the aforesaid parliament. Another “what if?”

    105. De Valera says:

      I think the decline of Scotland as a sovereign state began after Flodden.

      I agree that we are well rid of the Stuarts though, they were blighted by spectacular examples of poor judgement. James VI being the first in a very long line of Scottish sell outs.

    106. JLT says:

      @The man in the Jar

      Regarding Charles Edward Stuart…

      That I did not know. In that sense, we have the ‘caught between a rock and a hard place’ scenario; basically a sort of ‘should I stay or should I go’ …and off he went, and well …the rest is history as they say LOL

      anniversary of the Battle of Sheriffmuir
      Must admit, mate …I’m tempted. Usually, my weekends are mostly spent studying, but a wee break and a wander up to Sheriffmuir would be interesting; especially since next year, the key parts of my study finally kick in (Scottish History). The last two years was more the cultural aspects of human history, while this year seems to focus more on English history (which has been pretty bloody good if I do say so!). Next year, as said, Scottish (yeah!).

      But Sherrifmuir would be interesting as I will end up covering it at some point. Seeing the place will certainly help in visualising when the time comes to study the first Jacobite uprising of 1715.

      You never know, TMITJ …you might just see me there.

    107. Clydebuilt says:

      Largs is in North Ayrshire, the bloke to the right of Davidson is an ex North Ayrshire Blue Tory councillor. So the event was probably still held in N. A.

    108. Bob Mack says:

      There was indeed a hate filled mob. Mainly inside the venue.
      They are called Tories.

    109. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      That’s one of the reasons I read WOS avidly.

      You’re always learning what was actually going on, behind the dry historical ‘facts’, that we were taught at school.

      Thank yooz!

      8=)

    110. JLT says:

      De Valera says:

      I think the decline of Scotland as a sovereign state began after Flodden.

      I don’t think it was, to be honest, De Valera.

      In Magnus Magnusson’s book, ‘Scotland’, he stated that when Mary, Queen of Scots returned from France, Scotland was in a very strong position to woo other powerful nations towards Scotland’s needs. All the major Kings and Princes sat up knowing that Mary was available. This included German Electors, the Spanish Emperor, the Austrian Emperor, and even the Dukes and Princes of the Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth. All had sons or nephews who could be wed to Mary.

      However, Mary being Mary screwed it up by marrying her cousin, Lord Darnley (seriously …what was she thinking of (shake of the head))…and well …the rest is history. The key culprit was James VI. As I said in an earlier post, when he bolted for England, he took some of our sovereignty with him and attached it to England’s needs. James VI is to blame really.

      If Elizabeth had married and produced a son, then British history would have been completely different. With no English throne to covet, James would have had to remain, and well …Scotland may well have remained independent to this very day. Therefore Elizabeth I and James VI are to blame LOL

    111. Fran says:

      @ JTL

      Agreed, when Jamie took the English crown and combined the Kingdoms that was it for Scotland. We lost our trade partners and allies.

      A slow 100yr death followed for the country.

    112. mealer says:

      So,where did the Tories hold their conference in the end?

    113. thomaspotter2014 says:

      If you look closeup at the photograph of the’hate mob’it actually says”

      Frightening scenes Protesters at Manchesters UK Tory Conference!

      Obviously not West of Scotland then.

      The only threatening mannish thuggish types hanging about were…….

      Ruth Davidson.

    114. liz g says:

      @ the man in the jar 6.26
      Who is “The gentleman in the black velvet waistcoat”???

    115. john king says:

      “So,where did the Tories hold their conference in the end?”

      The Auld mans shelter in Cardenden! 😉

    116. caledonia says:

      Labour leader today complaining that an army general is being political

      Did that not happen during the indy ref and labour agreed with it

      can anyone confirm

    117. john king says:

      I counted about 71 people in that picture.

    118. Paula Rose says:

      I retweeted Ruthies tweet into a swirl of the Cult of Kevin this afternoon, I hooked two Tories but neither of them replied to my question about where the “conference” was held –

      Do we know yet?

    119. galamcennalath says:

      liz g says:
      Who is “The gentleman in the black velvet waistcoat”???

      Ha ha. William of Orange’s horse stumbled on a mole hill. He fell off and broke his collar bone. His health deteriated and he eventually died.

      So, Jacobites toast the mole which killed King Billy 🙂

    120. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The photo does look very odd on examination
      The shadows on the faces of the three principals all seem to the product of different lighting.

      Photoshopped I would say

    121. JLT says:

      @John King

      I counted about 71 people in that picture.

      By God, Mr King …you’re keen!! LOL I’m not even attempting counting! In fact …I’ll just say, that every Tory in Scotland is in Ruth’s selfie LOL.

    122. liz g says:

      Thanks galamcennalath that’s hilarious

    123. Alastair says:

      Breaking news.
      Severe embarrassment for Scotish Labour as it has been revealed that their flagship Pearson Review of Policing in Scotland is incomplete as Labour Spokesman for Justice MSP Graeme Pearson had in fact only watched 2 episodes of Scot Squad.

    124. Petra says:

      @ JLT says at 4:53 pm ”A bit deep, eh!”

      No really interesting JLT. A visit to Wings is a bit like returning to college / Uni. You get a real education on here ….. politics ….. economics …… history etc etc … and a laugh.

      @ Capella says at 6:09 pm ”A small but determined group of rabid separatists protested outside the hotel – one in a wheelchair. Terrifying. The hotel staff invited them in for a warming cup of tea.

      “The hotel manager invited all us “angry nationalists & extremists” in for tea! A source from the hotel said there were about 40 delegates booked for Tory Conference and Scottish Tory party cancelled it. Due to lack of interest? Was Ruth Davidson hiding from the people she is paid to represent ? Who knows…”

      http://livestream.com/45Storm/ToryProtest

      What a laugh Capella. Twenty wee ordinary men and women scared the Tories off. Mind you that woman in the wheelchair with the funny nose and placard looked like a right blood curling villain to me. Brave, brave staff working in that hotel. Taking the chance of the thugs smashing the place up.

      @ john king says at 7:40 pm ”I counted about 71 people in that picture.”

      Maybe half of them were photo-shopped in too John.

    125. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The more I look at that photo the more impossible it becomes. Mundell is lit from the right,the other guy is lit from the left and the spectral Ruthie is lit from the front. I don’t think that’s possible in a space of about a metre and a half square.

    126. Davy says:

      It’s a picture of Ruthie going ‘I won I’m the youngest again’, thats twenty two meetings this year and I have won the youngest member competion everytime.

      In fact she has won every tory youngest member competion since she joined.

      David Cameron is very pissed off with her as he used to win them competions. Infact he’s pig sick about it.

    127. De Valera says:

      @ JLT
      Interesting point on Mary, by the time she married Darnley she had her sights on the English throne which of course played a huge part in her downfall. Her half brother Moray was particularly against the marriage.

      Had Francis II lived and heirs produced, I believe Scotland would have been incorporated into the Kingdom of France. How long might that have lasted?
      Might we have been have had a Oui campain?

    128. Angra Mainyu says:

      Dave McEwan Hill, I concur. Looks like they took the people in the foreground from different photographs and put them in front of a large crowd photo — the goal was probably to make it look really busy, full of life, and vibrant. I can only assume that about 10 people turned up.

    129. john king says:

      Angry Mannie says

      “the goal was probably to make it look really busy, full of life, and vibrant. I can only assume that about 10 people turned up”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZaAkuXTIz4

    130. mealer says:

      I think the photo above could be genuine.Just badly taken by an amateur? I’m quite surprised the venue hasn’t yet been uncovered.The attendees must have been told to keep it all hush hush.It must all be rather exciting for them.

    131. Angra Mainyu says:

      Brobb, the answer is obvious and Swinney was probably just being honest. How can they commit to funding something when we still don’t know what powers we will have in terms of being able to do that or what it will cost (it’s possible the UK Government will scrap the Tax credits cuts, make them worse, or lessen their impact on the poor)?

      Additionally, it’s possible that the Scottish Government would not be able to afford mitigating cuts to Working Tax Credit or struggle to raise the money. We have no borrowing powers and a limited budget.

      It’s easy for Labour to say they will mitigate the impact of the cuts when they know and we all know that they will never need to actually do that since they won’t be in power. The Lib-Dems played these sorts of games for years.

      Making decisions like that is easy when you are never likely to have power or responsibility.

    132. Free Scotland says:

      TORY BRANCH OFFICE TRIUMVIRATE RUMBLED ON DIRTY WEEKEND

      To all the photoshop-conspiracy theorists: you’re right. The whole point of pretending that the location and time of the conference were top secret was to allow the selfie and photoshop activities to take place away from the prying eyes of the paparazzi.

      No professional reporters or photographers in sight – all photos courtesy of Tank Commander Studios via the tank commander’s twitter feed.

    133. Angra Mainyu says:

      “I think the photo above could be genuine.Just badly taken by an amateur?”

      I doubt it. The thing that gives it away is the guy on the left. That picture has noise and was clearly taken in low light. My guess is he at least was added in post.

    134. JLT says:

      Might we have been have had a Oui campain?

      LOL …who knows!

      Though it should be noted, that the marriage of Mary to the French Dauphin when she was much younger was meant to herald a ‘super-kingdom’.

      For if Elizabeth could be knocked off her throne through an English Catholic uprising, then the idea was the Royal couple would be supreme rulers of 3 kingdoms, and therefore, their first child would be King-Queen of three Kingdoms, which unlike say the Habsburg territories of Spain and Austria, were scattered all over Europe. The ‘super-kingdom of North-West Europe’ from the Shetlands all the way to Marseille would have been truly formidable and would probably have made Habsburg Spain quake (which was the most powerful nation in the world at that time).

      France in this period feared Spain, and believed that Mary was the key to not only creating a super-kingdom based on French influence and culture, but would quickly dominate Spain. It would probably have also knocked out the their Austrian cousins, the Austrian Habsburgs as well. In such a position, France would push their territorial claims further by trying to have a French monarch declared Holy Roman Emperor, and thus have huge tracts of Germany, the Swiss Cantons and Italy incorporated into an even greater kingdom.

      Mary …was the key, but alas, as you say De Valera, the Dauphin died, and that was when Mary came back to Scotland.

      However, it really makes you wonder how the fighting over the ‘English throne’ would have played out if Francis had lived. For it has been noted that Mary on the 4th of April in 1558, signed a secret agreement ‘bequeathing Scotland and her claim to England to the French crown if she died without issue’.

      Just ‘Wow!!!’

    135. Capella says:

      Oh dear. I’ve just sat through the Remembrance ceremony at the Cenotaph on the iPlayer. What a bizarre experience. Weird camera angles, longeurs on empty space while bawling and marching go on off camera, no commentary (where are all the Dimblebies?) Poor co-ordination, ghastly band and repertoire. Six pipers drowned out by a loud thumping drum bashing away.

      The BBC used to be good at this sort of thing but that was pathetic. Made by some organisation called London Events, so probably outsourced.

      Prince Charles didn’t even turn up. Is he on holiday?

      And who was the chap who accompanied the queen and laid his wreath after her? Somebody very important obviously.
      But Angus did get to participate in spite of all the bad mouthing for making the poor old queen stand about for so long.

    136. DeilTakTheHindmaist says:

      Just did a Panelbase poll – seemed awfy like the work of a certain clergyman, known to be of a separatist persuasion…

    137. Hamish100 says:

      Yip looks like the Brisbane Hotel in Largs. The guy on the left is the ex councillor Wilkinson of West Kilbride. A total twat. It is good to know in the tory’s heartland of Largs they have one 1 councillor. The others are labour and 2 snp. The MSP is Snp Kenneth Gibson and his wife is the MP. The local Tory wants to close Prestwick Airport down losing several thousands of jobs. For the whole of the west of scotland this is a pathetic turnout.

    138. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Angra Mainyu at 9.35
      Exactly

      “Just badly taken by an amateur?” The one thing clear is that it wasn’t badly taken by an amateur. Unless the amateur had three different spotlights.

      Let’s try to find out the secret location.

    139. mealer says:

      Is that Jackson Carlaw sitting in the front row above Ruth’s head? He has a poppy but not many of the others seem to,which is very surprising.I doubt if it can be entirely down to forgetfulness.Maybe they don’t want to spend money buying a poppy to commemorate a few million dead when they’re about to spend £167 billions in an effort to wipe out humanity.

    140. Capella says:

      The photo. Don’t be daft. It looks like a selfie and Ruth is imitating Nicola but isn’t very good at it. Her phone camera flash lights up her face and the left side of Fluffy’s face but doesn’t shine on the man on the left of the picture because of the angle.

    141. Ian Brotherhood says:

      To the untrained eye (or ‘aye’?) the image looks alright. I wouldn’t have give it a second thought had y’all not started querying the light etc.

      But I can’t believe anyone is daft enough to try and photoshop stuff, for whatever reason. They must know they’ll get caught. (Cameron with his now-you-see-it-now-you-don’t poppy, ffs…)

    142. Ian Brotherhood says:

      We had almost as many Wingers at the last HOF rally in Freedom Square, and that was without any big organising. At each WOS gathering in the Counting House we had at least twice as many, no probs.

      Conference? These total fanbelts are kidding themselves.

    143. De Valera says:

      @ Capella
      Prince Charles is in New Zealand or Australia just now.

      @ JLT
      Learning a good deal here, thanks and sorry the last bit of my post was a bit muddled.

    144. mealer says:

      Hamish 100 9.47
      Are you sure that’s the Brisbane Hotel in Largs? But I thought there were protesters there and they were told the conference was cancelled by the hotel management.Surely they would have noticed Tory delegates going in.The press were told by the Tories that the venue had been changed away from the Brisbane.So did the Tories say they were cancelling at the Brisbane to throw folk off the scent then have it there on a different date? Did they abort entirely or have it somewhere else and post a photoshopped picture of a different event at the Brisbane? The whole things most peculiar.

    145. JLT says:

      @Capella

      looks like a selfie

      Yep! Ruthie is trying to do a selfie with half (seriously) of the Tories to be found in Scotland

      @De Valera

      Thanks! And don’t worry – understood every bit of it!

      To be honest, Between Wings and studying today, I’m stunned I’ve not had the Rev telling me to sling my backside and head to the ‘off-topic’ page with this history discussion (in fact, I’m blaming Heedtracker for getting me started LOL). However, though it detracted from the article, I suppose we’ve given the readers a wee Sunday History lesson on how Kings ruled supreme; how James VI was the one who started Scotland’s demise, and what could have been under Mary and Francis. A lot of topics …and a lot of thought-provoking questions.

      Anyway …am off to bed …to try and finish a book on the War of the Roses. It never ends …LOL.

    146. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Capella at 9.47

      If Ruthie was taking a selfie she would need to have a very long arm to light up the right had side of the face of the guy on the left while leaving the left in shadow . It is just possible that he is being lit from his right hand side while a flash has been used in front of Ruthie. Had that been the case however all his face would have surely have been lit.

      Still looks very odd – though I do concede that Ruthie may have had a flash. (Stop sniggering at the back there!)

    147. Paula Rose says:

      It’s obvious- get everyone together for the official photo – at the same time the protestors are ushered in for tea and scones.

      Then those assembled quietly make their getaway – Everybody wins!

    148. mealer says:

      Selfie it is,then.But who of? I don’t think Ruth’s arms are that long.Maybe it’s a stunt double.I’m pretty sure that’s the real deal Fluffy Mundell though.They threw him away when they made the mould.And why isn’t pigger there?

    149. Capella says:

      A selfie stick?!

    150. Tam Jardine says:

      As Stu has pointed out on twitter, Lindsay Bruce’s piece on the limitation of Gers has had the other side waggling spreadsheets and graphs in a frenzy as if they were going out of fashion.

      I was looking at one particular graph from Kevin Hague showing his damning figure for ‘Scotlands net lending/borrowing in Europe 2015 as a % of GDP’. Concerning stuff from Kevin- I won’t link to it but seek it out if you must.

      Scotland has a small population, large landmass, strong sectors such as food and drink, energy, finance, tourism, fisheries, agriculture, oil and gas, computer games, biotech etc etc and yet we are this outlier on his graph- way below every other country in Europe.

      Its weird- Kevin clutches at this, his lovely graph which proves to him that Scotland is the worst country in Europe in economic terms (well, on this particular indicator), not just by a whisker but by some distance. His whole being affirms with absolute confidence: “we are therefore better together”. That strikes me as strange for a number of reasons- apart from anything else were the figures true it would suggest to me that we were anything but better within a constitutional arrangement that has left us in such a perilous financial condition!

      It just so happens that on Kevin’s graph Scotland is the only non-independent state. Croatia, Sweden, Malta and indeed the UK all have balance sheets and are unitary- we can get definitive figures for all of these states- their GDP, borrowing etc.

      Scotland in the context of this graph strikes me as exceptional in 2 particular senses. Firstly (and I hope this doesn’t sound insulting- I am saying this as I see it): Scotland is the one country that Kevin is desperate to prove to be in a poor financial condition for his own reasons.

      And secondly Scotland’s finances are the only country on the graph’s that are extremely complex as she is connected to the UK in innumerable convoluted ways that require analysis, estimation by population share etc.

      Extracting this data is an inexact science and a Scottish balance sheet as such does not exist in part because there is not really any such thing as a Scottish economy. Certainly the Scottish economy is not easily measurable like the economies of these other independent states.

      The first example that struck me was parliaments- we in Scotland contribute towards Holyrood in full and Westminster in part. How many countries of relative population size pay for one national parliament and a population share of not one but 2 vast and expensive parliaments outwith their territory? (Westminster and the EU)?

      Another example is defence- £3 billion of Scotland’s expenditure is allocated to defence as a population share of the UK’s total. So to generate the figures for a ‘Scotland’ the unitary state we take a population share of the country with the 5th highest military budget in the world- so ‘Scotland’ the unitary state is saddled with military spending per capita of a nuclear G8 country with a long history and presumably future of foreign interventions.

      So- Kevin analyses figures with a view to finding that ‘Scotland’, the unitary state that does not exist has the weakest economy in terms of GDP measured against borrowing, using the only disputable figures out of all the states in Europe and finds (drum roll) that he is 100% correct! Would you adam and eve it!

      That ‘Scotland’ the unitary state with the 8th highest military spending per capita in the world who pays for things like national government twice over- he finds that Scotland would be a complete basketcase.

      Well done Kevin! What a hero.

    151. mealer says:

      The plot thickens.I’ve just been on the Brisbane House Hotel website and I’m pretty sure it’s their function suite in the picture above,but,and this is where it all gets a bit weird,the rat pack night isn’t til the twentieth.

    152. MolliBlum says:

      Is it too early to go o/t here to remind everyone that Alistair Carmichael will be appearing in court tomorrow (Monday 9th November) to face the questions raised by his constituents and that the fundraiser for their legal fees is still open — any money not required for legal fees will go to foodbanks: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/

    153. Fireproofjim says:

      Capella
      The blond haired chap behind the Queen at the Cenotaph was the King of the Netherlands, who was there to mark the liberation of Holland by the British Army 70 years ago. (My dad was there)!

    154. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      Scones? Empire biscuits, surely.

    155. mealer says:

      MolliBlum 10.41
      We were transported back to The War of The Three Kingdoms a few hours ago so no,I don’t think it’s too early to go O/T Thanks for the link to the disgraced Carmichael thing.

    156. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Going O/T also

      St Andrews Day is the 92nd anniversary of the death of John Mclean. Can we have petition to rename George Square McLean Square?
      I’m sure a majority of Glaswegians would agree.
      Just noticed May 12th next year,a few days after our election,is the centenary of the murder of Edinburgh’s James Connolly in Dublin

    157. Fireproofjim says:

      MolliBlum
      I have contributed to the legal fund for the Orkney Four, but if they need more I will be proud to support them.

    158. mealer says:

      Dave McEwan Hill 10.55
      McLean Square eh? That would really piss the red Tories off.I think it’s an excellent idea.

    159. heedtracker says:

      Well done Kevin! What a hero.

      I for one welcome kevrage, our imperial master(baiter) of vile separatists.

      Modern Scottish politics is short of wealthy English toryboy unionists, explaining very clearly to the stupid Scots that their current SNP government in Holyrood are a pack of lying fraudsters and Scots are all frightfully stupid voting for them.

      Future toryboy Scottish Finance Minister in waiting, forever.

    160. dakk says:

      I’m certain the picture is genuine.

      Over fuzzy heid Mundell’s left shoulder I can see Albert Steptoe who, it is well known, is still a diehard Tory activist.

    161. Capella says:

      @ fireproofjim
      Thanks for that info. So your dad was in Operation Market Garden! I remember watching “A Bridge Too Far” and noted the complaint that it was rewritten to make it look like the Americans captured the bridge when in fact it was British Grenadiers.

      That’s Hollywood though!

    162. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bill Hume says: 8 November, 2015 at 11:38 am:

      “I’m with Capella…..WTF has Sheridan got to do with this??”

      Just like to point out, Bill, that there are more than one Sheridan in Scotland and they don’t even all have the same Christian Name.

    163. Tam Jardine says:

      heedtracker

      Aye- he has a great future, with his can do attitude. We canny, we shouldnae, must never, ever etc. As I was always being told when I was young: ‘it wouldnae do if we were aw the same’.

      I just read his thingummyjig for dummies and I’m still trying to get my head around my family of four representing an ‘onshore deficit of £12,000’- I suppose when my wee boy and girl are paying nearly £600 each a year on defence it kind of makes sense.

      Time to go back to my onshore deficit… I mean, my life.

    164. Angra Mainyu says:

      @Tam

      It seems odd that he bothered to make those comparisons in response to Lindsay Bruce’s analysis when, as I understood it, Bruce’s most damning contention was that the GERs data failed to measure major sectors of the Scottish economy properly. Or, more accurately, things like Whisky sales were attributed to the UK economy rather than Scotland’s in much the same way that the money we spend in supermarkets up here goes on the books of companies down there.

      There’s a sense that stuff like that is so complex that you couldn’t with the best will in the world determine exactly what was and wasn’t attributable to the Scottish economy. But, as it happens, there are aspects of EU law that would make doing so both necessary and simpler. I won’t bore with details and I’m no expert anyway but I’ve noticed that when I trade across European borders certain laws on things like sales tax (VAT) kick in.

      The impression I get is that the Scottish economy is under-represented to a massive extent in all those official figures and if I was to guess I’d say it could be by as much as 25 to 40%.

    165. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Robert Peffers.

      If you read the article, it was ‘Tommy Sheridan’ who was referenced, via the fact that a ‘Solidarity’ lady was one of the organisers of the demo.

      A tenuous link, I recognise, but par for the course that the corpmedia is playing.

      “Sheridan” could not be quoted, I surmise, because he was elsewhere, on more important business…

      8=)

    166. Fireproofjim says:

      Capella
      Getting a wee bit OT but it is late and a long way down the thread.
      The Guards Armoured Division (ie my dad and a few others) led operation Market Garden, to relieve the Airborne Division at Arnhem.
      There was also a large contingent of Americans from their First Airborne Division, who fought heroically, with our Armoured Division to capture the bridge at Nijmegen, so don’t believe tales that the Americans were lacking or non-existent in that battle.
      Of course it ended up being “a bridge too far”.

    167. Capella says:

      @ fireproofjim
      Point taken! It was a good film with Michael Caine starring. I’ve visited Arnhem and the Kroller-Muller museum with the most magnificent collection of Van Gogh paintings. Worth a visit.

      http://www.arnhemnijmegenregion.com/kroller-muller-museum

    168. Tam Jardine says:

      Angra Mainyu

      Indeed- the economies cannot be simply separated and analysed (until they are separate) and even if they could I haven’t the time, the knowledge or access to do so.

      On a basic level though- if you are looking at a graph and the one outlier way off the curve is the one and only stat that you know is inaccurate and subject to all kinds of interpretation and estimation… well it doesn’t take a genius to work out that single stat is questionable.

    169. Angra Mainyu says:

      Tam, another depressing factor that I think everybody has overlooked to an extent is the social cost of the failed policies they have imposed on us. We are all guilty I think of being rather cold and unsympathetic to certain elements in society, I’m talking about people with drugs problems and such, and to an extent we take them as a fact of life, but it really needn’t be this bad.

      These social problems are also extremely wasteful and expensive. There’s been a lot of talk about waiting times at accident and emergency lately, for example, but my recent experiences in A&E opened my eyes to the extent that our society is just completely broken. The whole system is clogged up with these messed up people.

      I haven’t heard anyone make a political issue of this or even mention i reallyt, but you don’t need to be John Stuart Mill to work out that all these junkies and screwed people are a huge drain on the NHS and other institutions. Can you imagine what it would be like if, instead of being messed up and clogging up the system, those people contributed.

      On a more human level, can you imagine how much happier they’d be if they had fulfilling and meaningful roles to play in a country that did things differently? It brings a tear to my eye to think of all those wasted lives and the parents and family members of these people who have a front row seat watching their loved ones rot and die.

      We live in a very sick and broken society. For me that’s the most important reason for supporting independence. We need to fix it.

    170. Tam Jardine says:

      Angra Mainyu

      I see these folk every day on Leith Walk and Great Junction St. Fuck- I’ve wrestled a few of them in my time! Trying to get them out the door if they come in and kick off or try and steal mobiles.

      Its easy to judge but I can barely imagine the hardship, the loss of respect and the helplessness folk can descend into.

      What these dickheads in the commons don’t understand when they casually put a line through something like tax credits is that for the people that have fallen down the well daylight just got that bit further away.

      It doesn’t just affect the working poor- it removes an incentive to work for those with little incentive at all.

      The weird thing is that the unionist position seems to be either ‘its like that, its just the way it is’ or ‘things can only get worse with independence’. No-one really put a positive case for change along the lines of fixing society from the unionist side. They don’t seem to believe it is possible. I think we have to.

    171. Sandy Henderson says:

      why didn’t Davidson take her tank along, Tignamin square, like!!

    172. K1 says:

      Dis naebdy sleep in Scotland any mair…we’re a right watchful lot urnt we 🙂

    173. Lenny Hartley says:

      On nightshift watching out for a sneaky troll attack 🙂

    174. john king says:

      On nightshift watching out for a sneaky troll attack 🙂

      Ok Lenny I’ll keep you company
      lets sing a wee song
      I’ve got myself a walking talking living troll.

    175. Arabs for Independence says:

      Guy on the left is Richard Wilkinson. Worked with him many years ago – a nice man but not the sharpest nor most assertive.

      Glad he’s on ‘their’ side.

    176. Capella says:

      It’s the early bird that catches the worm and there are two worms out this morning. First there’s the Carmichael trial which won’t be televised.

      Then there’s Fluffy and his Scotland Bill v3
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34760508

    177. Tackety Beets says:

      Mealer @ 9.51 pm

      Aye Mealer it does indeed look like Jacksom Carlow with Ian Stewart , The Milton Keynes Dammed annoying MP who is Fluffies side kick.

      Warning he is on GMS shortly , stand by your beds !

    178. Haggis Hunter says:

      I mind the Mail, in the lead up to the referendum putting an article online saying the UK would keep the Hebrides.

      When I pointed out that the Hebrides has no oil production, yet, and that the Northern Isles has, the article was edited to the Shetlands.

      I then pointed out that Shetland came to the ‘union’ with Scotland and would have to leave with Scotland, from then on Shetland could do as it pleased, but it would be highly unlikely that it would wish to be a part of the UK, then I was banned from commenting.

    179. The Man in the Jar says:

      Anyone seen the front page of the Record this morning. Oh dear. I see that they took the appeal to stop using the NHS as a weapon seriously. Absolutely disgusting.

      Sorry I can’t provide a link.

    180. Nana says:

      O/T links Can not remember if I already posted this link.

      Apache confirms U.K. North Sea discovery bonanza

      https://archive.is/rGcOY

    181. galamcennalath says:

      OT, Carmichael case today. Apparently evidence is to be heard from six witnesses. Wonder who they are, what will be said?

      Smoking gun, or wet fart?

    182. Al-Stuart says:

      The Daily Mail editorial says…

      “Bullies Won’t Win”

      But they are winning. We have 56 SNP MP’s in that palace of Westminster and they are bullied regularly by drunk Tories steaming in with verbal abuse and as Mhari Black eloquently put it: braying like donkeys. Particularly when there are SNP amendments to the Scotland Bill, and the Tory bullies have imbibed too much cheap, taxpayer subsidised booze at one of FOURTEEN PUBS and alcohol watering holes in that building.

      Scotland as a nation is politically bullied by England and that Tory government for whom we did NOT vote.

      How on earth can the Tories claim to have any mandate to govern/politically torture a country when they have a feeble 14.9% of the vote*

      So any chance the Daily Mail might report something about the political bullying of Scotland by Tories in England?

      Aye right. That’ll be the day.

      —————

      *FACTS

      6 May 2010: Scottish Conservatives got 16.7% of the vote.

      7 May 2015: Scottish Conservatives got 14.9% of the vote.

      A DECREASE OF 1.9% and the Main Stream Mudslingers say Ruth Tanky Davidson is improving their position.

      —————


      6 May 2010: The SNP got 19.9% of the vote and 491,386 votes.

      7 May 2015: The SNP got 50% of the vote and 1,454,436 votes.

      AN INCREASE OF 30.1% and still the Main Stream Mudslingers ignore the disgraceful democratic deficit and insult Scotland.

    183. nodrog says:

      Here is the paltry excuse for not meeting the promises made in the “VOW” or the Smith Commission –

      The Scotland Bill –
      ‘Gives one of most powerful devolved parliaments in world’

      AYE RIGHT

      All the best today Alistair.

    184. Grouse Beater says:

      Al-Stuart: “Scotland as a nation is politically bullied by England and that Tory government for whom we did NOT vote.”

      More on Tory policy here: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2mq

      Boy, winter Mondays are bleak in a dependent Scotland.

    185. Al-Stuart says:

      Man in the Jar says: 9 November, 2015 at 8:25 am
      Anyone seen the front page of the Record this morning. Oh dear. I see that they took the appeal to stop using the NHS as a weapon seriously. Absolutely disgusting.

      Worry Not Jar man…

      It is the shareholders of the Daily Record that should be very concerned here – for their journalists and editor are doing such a diabolical job over the past 12 months, their circulation has plummeted by a massive 11.1%. They have now dropped below the 200,000 mark. As of March 2015 the Daily Record circulation has dropped from 214,914 and is going DOWN. It is sick at 190,985. Source: (Audit Bureau of Circulations)

      If any Daily Record people read this, perhaps ask yourself how to improve the prospect of your dying newspaper?

      Maybe write some fair and balanced jarticles instead of the slavish promotion of Lethal Labour / Toxic Tories (difficult to tell them apart nowadays).

    186. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Al-Stuart

      You are not wrong.

      Basicly we have the Daily Record “Scotland’s Champion” trolling the Scottish NHS in an attempt to discredit a popular Scottish government.

      For those who have not seen the front page of the Record it bold headline refers to the new Southern General as “The Death Trap”

    187. Greannach says:

      Not as many carers in evidence this year as last. Maybe cutbacks in social work responsible.

    188. Brian Powell says:

      The Man in a Jar

      During the referendum we were told the staff in SNHS were for staying in the Union. Not a lot I can add to that.

    189. orri says:

      At work just now so can’t look it up again.

      Saw an article gloating about protestors turning up at the Brisbane whilst the conference was going ahead in Giffnock.

      As to the lighting, there are multiple light sources in use, and possible individual down spots at the front.

      The round things on the wall may very well be poppy wreaths. The blurry bit on one of the guys on the front row might also be a poppy.

      Best bet might be a British Legion hall.

    190. Socrates MacSporran says:

      At the rugby on Saturday, I was speaking to a practicing doctor and out conversation got round to the new Southern General.

      He said, quite openly, it is a disaster zone. Staff morale is at an all-time low, there are more “bank” nurses (non-full-time nurses filling-in to plug gaps) than staffers and treatment is suffering, in spite of the best efforts of the staff.

      He blames the hospital management. OK, it is not, strictly speaking the Scottish Government’s fault, but, as the buck finally stops with the Health Secretary – maybe she should be more pro-active in knocking heads together.

      I appreciate the SNHS is in better shape than the English and Welsh ones, but, if the Health Secretary can demonstrate she is on top of things and trying to make it better, it just might make Dippity Dug, Oliver Hardie’s twin sister, Tank Commander Krankie and the bus conducter frae Kelty think twice about opening gobs and spouting shite. Note, I did say might.

      The Unionists are looking for any stick with which to beat the SNP – the SG must be more pro-active in seeking to raise standards and get things right. Not that the opposition will thank them for this.

    191. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Brian Powell

      Yes I heard that as well. I know a couple of nurses that work in “The Royal” they were Yes but were having a difficult time persuading their colleagues. All I could do was to give them plenty of campaign materials. Baffling!

    192. Macart says:

      @TMITJ

      Neither the Record nor their chain tuggers in political circles give a damn for the carnage they cause. They are far too busy playing at politics.

    193. nodrog says:

      A lot of talk on GMS this morning about beefing up Airport Security all over the place, even an airport security expert who “advises” the government. Very little mention of the rumours that security at Sharm was not too great prior to the air crash.

      Perhaps the investment portfolios are being re jigged?

    194. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says

      “Neither the Record nor their chain tuggers in political circles give a damn for the carnage they cause.”

      That’s the problem when people become blindly fanatical for their cause. No collateral damage is too much when it comes to trying to save their precious Union.

      There is a group of well behaved unionists who want to retain their Union, mostly Tories. That IS their democratic choice and they will stick with it.

      There is a much larger group who voted No, but softly, for a variety of reasons. They can be persuaded another way is possible.

      And, there is a very vocal group of absolutely committed beyond reason Union Jidahists who, allied to the CorpMedia, will say and probably do anything.

    195. galamcennalath says:

      @nodrog

      While not wishing to diminish the genuine threat from global terrorist, we should also not forget that promoting ‘fear of a bogey man’ is an established political technique to control and deflect a population.

    196. Les Wilson says:

      For those who might have missed this, here is what a BBC reporter thinks about the BBC.
      http://politicalscrapbook.net/2015/11/bbc-journalist-trust-nothing-you-read-or-watch-i-am-ashamed-to-be-a-journalist/

      Not that we did not know, but still welcome.

    197. Helena Brown says:

      Reading the Wee Ginger Dug first thing this morning I noted from him that Jeremy Corbyn is not only being stabbed in the back by his right wing colleagues but also by one he promoted as his Shadow Defence Minister. Well those who read the political runes always say that a house divided among itself cannot stand, I wonder if Jeremy will fire her?

    198. Ruby says:

      Socrates MacSporran
      RE your 9:55 post

      Staff morale is at all time low.

      Negative press will definitely not help staff morale.
      Unionists looking for any stick to beat SNP with a total disregard for staff morale/patients health.

      Hospital management at fault for disaster zone at new Southern General.
      Lets say hospital management staff are not fans of SNP how motivated would they be to ensure everything runs smoothly at new Southern General.

    199. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath

      “And, there is a very vocal group of absolutely committed beyond reason Union Jidahists who, allied to the CorpMedia, will say and probably do anything.”

      That’s pretty much the long and short of it.

      We can do this and reach those we couldn’t last time around. We need to build confidence in our government and our system of government.

      This of course is the reason for the attacks on our institutions. Its not simply party politics, but constitutional politics. If trust in our institutions is undermined then the thinking is clearly we’re unable to rely on our own wit and resources.

      The media, at the behest of establishment politics and corporate interest, is undermining the confidence of their own people. They sold us out long since.

    200. Nana says:

      For what its worth my advice to the scotgov would be to get rid of the over the top expensive managers. Reinstate the matron who had experience of actual nursing and for heavens sake rid the wards of nurses computer stations.

      It is little wonder nurses are fat. When I trained[long time ago] we spent most of the time on the wards doing practical nursing and a few weeks here and there on anatomy/physio & health. Nowadays nurses go to uni, sit around and discuss how to nurse patients. A friend’s daughter finished her training a couple of years ago, heaven help the patients and her mum agrees!

      I’ve had instances when my mum was in hospital where I truly despaired at the lack of practical knowledge [especially with hand washing]and asking for aid from any nurse sat around a computer station seemed to be frowned upon. At one time during an evening I had to go and assist an elderly lady who had fallen trying to call a nurse.

      The whole nhs needs a shake up and I would start by giving the managers an ultimatum, shape up or ship out.

      As for the ones at the new hospital in Glasgow, is he not the one who had the name changed and is an OBE or some such titled individual. Unionist to his marrow.

    201. Grouse Beater says:

      Ruby: Lets say hospital management staff are not fans of SNP. How motivated would they be to ensure everything runs smoothly at new Southern General?

      In days gone by such behaviour was ‘treasonable’.

    202. Phronesis says:

      The New Southern General was always going to be an enormous logistic challenge with 3 hospitals merging on the one site. The bed planning would have been done 10 years ago and has most likely underestimated the demand on care needs and length of time of bed occupancy.Treating an aging population who live with long term conditions and complexity is prolonged when many require supervised care and cannot be discharged back into the community unless there are adequate care arrangements.

      90% of health contact is in primary care therefore there now needs to be substantial investment in health and social care to allow citizens to live in the community independently and in good health for as long as possible. This is a challenge that all western countries are struggling with nonetheless SG are progressing with plans to future proof the delivery of health and social care.

      All health boards and local authorities are producing draft integration strategies and welcome public input e.g. this is Glasgow’s

      https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=16968

      We should all feed into this process if we want to preserve the NHS and our current social protections. The MSM who choose to run with stories of catastrophising NHS Scotland shouldn’t forget that Scotland still has a fully nationalised health service- NHS England does not.

      Did the same MSM report much on the subversive process of the privatisation of NHS England over 3 decades and the penultimate role of the HoL in passing the Health and Social Care Act 2012 that allows 50% of hospital beds to be private beds (legislation passed by the 1% who had many financial interests in profit-making health care companies).

      Despite Scotland being financially hog-tied by the current asymmetric relationship with WM SG is making financial choices to implement policies that improve the life course for all Scotland’s citizens. If the MSM has an abiding interest in one of our biggest national and global threats- inequalities-then they should be unequivocally supporting access to universal health care and offering intelligent critical appraisal of NHS Scotland and not from a position of ignorance, bias, misinformation and a low aspiration for Scotland.

    203. ronnie anderson says:

      Could.nt make it to Edinburgh (Carmicheal)trial Gutted .

    204. K1 says:

      Rev’s just twittered Digital Impact have changed the title of their book…

      http://explore.digitalimpact.co.uk/little-blue-book

      Good Stuff!

      The Wings article related to this has now been removed. (jist so those who were commenting btl are aware of this)

    205. Les Wilson says:

      Nana says:
      Reinstate matrons is the way to go in the SNHS. They were the ones who were most knowledgeable in patient care.
      This was something my departed wife, was so amendment about long before she was critically ill.

      They were the glue that helped everything be more efficient.
      In view of that I totally agree that the top heavy section should be thinned down and that the matrons should be brought back, and soon.

      Another big issue is the cost of part time specialists, these people make a fortune by moonlighting between the SNHS and private Hospitals. I remember when my wife was undergoing cancer treatment and as I was covered at that time I was with her at her “check ups” on one occasion and many others like it. There was a charge of £250 for an 11 min consultation.

      The bill came to me prior to going to my insurers, I was astounded. Given their other job was in the SNHS. Pure greed from this sector, which needs addressed somehow.

    206. Jack Murphy says:

      Alistair Carmichael MP,arrives at Court of Session,Edinburgh.
      Livestream.
      Top video at 43 minutes approx.

      http://tinyurl.com/ol2fu7m

    207. Socrates MacSporran says:

      My oldest daughter is a nurse at our excellent wee local hospital here in Ayrshire. She is also, arguably, the most-over-qualified nurse in the country (MSc, BSc Hons, Dip.Nursing – more letters after her name than in her name).

      She loves her job in a geriatric ward: “Real nursing – we can make a difference”.

      She absolutely refuses to take promotion, which has been offered a few times: “Not on your Nellie – when the cuts come, it’s the promoted posts which are lost, I’ll stay where I am”.

      She did occasional bank shifts at the big hospital near here, but stopped. “Nurses there are glorified skivvies – you have to wait around for a junior doctor to do procedures which, at my own hospital, we nurses are encouraged to do. Too-many chiefs, not enough Indians, who are not encouraged to use their training or initiative”.

      At least, when we had Matrons, and Sisters actually on the wards, rather than Ward Managers or whatever they are called, hospitals worked.

      Let’s get back there.

    208. Angra Mainyu says:

      K1, regarding Digital Impact, that’s good. Easy to jump to conclusions but I always think it’s best to give the benefit of the doubt and it looks like they meant no harm. It didn’t make sense as a ploy anyway.

    209. Fred says:

      @ De Valera & JLT, interesting speculation folks. Moray entertained hopes of his mother’s relationship with James V,(one of many) being legitimated and therefore Mary being declared a bastard. The Hamilton’s were next in line if the Stewart’s failed and had the Regent Moray assasinated in Linlithgow, the world’s first shooting of a head of state. Had James VI died young the Scottish crown would have gone to the Hamilton’s, so no 1707 Union and the wee duke who carries the crown in the Scottish Parliament would be wearing it instead.

    210. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Some comment here on consultants working between their NHS patients and their private ones.

      Some years ago, in Vancounver on a Scotland rugby tour, at one of the receptions, the other rugby writer on the tour and I – the entire press corps, noticed a local wearing a Barbarians tie, and wondered who he was.

      Turned out he was a former Scotland internationalist, who had studied medicine at Edinburgh University, done the minimum time required in the NHS, then gone to Canada, where he was one of the leading obstetricians in BC.

      Why Canada? We asked.

      His reply was: “Because, in the NHS, the less you do, the more you get paid, and the more chance you have to feather your own nest with private patients. Here, the more you do, the more you get paid – and, there is less politics involved.

      This was some years ago, but, I don’t suppose the situation in the NHS has changed much, and if it has, not for the better.

      Is received wisdom not that the biggest obstacle Nye Bevan had to overcome in setting-up the NHS was the determination of the doctors to protect their own interests, and, nearly 70-years down the line, this is still a big problem?

    211. Ruby says:

      K1 says:
      9 November, 2015 at 11:07 am
      Rev’s just twittered Digital Impact have changed the title of their book…

      Good Stuff!

      The Wings article related to this has now been removed. (jist so those who were commenting btl are aware of this)

      Ruby replies

      Great that the article has been removed.

      Shame that my comment re Wings football aficionados has gone.
      I suppose I will get another opportunity to thank them for their kindness & consideration in the very near future. 😀

    212. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Some interesting stuff on here about the sex lives of the Stuarts and ramifications for today’s Royal Family.

      I remember reading somewhere once, about a Duke of Buccleuch, who, made a great show of burning, in the presence of Queen Victoria, a document which proved that he, and not “Mrs Brown”, should be the rightful “King of England” as the ruler of the United Kingdom was then called.

      This act was done to prove his loyalty to the Crown.

      Can anyone else (Robert Peffers?) throw light on this?

    213. Brian Powell says:

      We rejected the Tories and Labour, but still discussions go on about who said what about Corbyn and what he should do.

    214. Fred says:

      @ Socrates, this obviously refers to the duke of Monmouth executed by his uncle James VII.

      McWhirter has had his cage rattled, mebbes it’s in need of a clean-oot!

    215. louis.b.argyll says:

      Isn’t it clinically proven that adding yo stress levels BY SCAREMONGERING about the NHS..is detrimental to patient well being.

      The Dail Record should be BANNED.

    216. Ruby says:

      louis.b.argyll says:
      9 November, 2015 at 11:51 am
      Isn’t it clinically proven that adding yo stress levels BY SCAREMONGERING about the NHS..is detrimental to patient well being.

      The Dail Record should be BANNED.

      Ruby replies

      Absolutely correct. Opposition politicians & their media are behaving irresponsibly. How would they feel about going into a ‘Death Trap’

      These ‘UKOK Better Together Manipulative Hate Preachers’ have a lot to answer for.

      Stress is a killer. Harry Burns videos on You Tube very interesting.

    217. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says:

      “This of course is the reason for the attacks on our institutions. Its not simply party politics, but constitutional politics. If trust in our institutions is undermined then the thinking is clearly we’re unable to rely on our own wit and resources.”

      They fight on, and they fight so hard, because the politically savvy Unionists know they are losing.

      IMO, Despite the result of the 19th Sept, they realised they had lost well before that.

      The campaign began with 30% Yes. They felt only a little fearmongering (stick) was necessary. There were to be no carrots.

      By 2014 the stick had become bigger and the carrot, in the form of further devolution, was introduced.

      As Yes grew, the stick became bigger and the carrot sweeter.

      Then the point of no return at the beginning of September. They were forced the offer the ultimate carrot, DevoSuperHomeMaxRule. However, they had no intentions of ever delivering and at that point, they lost.

      Not all of them realised it then, many are still in denial. But that was an underhand tactic too far. The Union’s death warrant was signed then. We await the execution.

    218. call me dave says:

      @Helena Brown

      Jeremy should have words with the Eagle! A bird should not be shitting in it’s own nest.

      He looks increasingly like a weak hand on the tiller, just trimming the sails on the good ship Dystopia until a new captain comes along.

      Kezia meanwhile, is playing the minor antagonist role of Israel Hands in North Britain. At least they have keelhauled young ‘Jim lad’ along with the rations of iron brew, but I see no better together weather coming along soon. Poor Jeremy 🙁

      Yes I’ve been sailing my wee yacht at the public park pond and got quite nautical taking in the Kirkcaldy sea front ozone on Sunday.

    219. louis.b.argyll says:

      Ruby,
      Maybe crowdfunding for..

      .. a campaign to neutralise the deliberate damage being done to the NHS, patients and staff, by media negativity…

      And/or…

      ..REAL trade union representation for

      NHS WORKERS, as the current ‘unions’

      are nowhere to be seen.

      THEY should be jumping down the

      throats of these ‘allegations of

      incompetence’ in the health systems.

      Their members should be challenging

      the Daily Records’ views, as part of

      teambuilding exercises, knowing

      themselves how insulting and immoral

      it is to create suspicion around the

      health service itself.

    220. Ruby says:

      ouis.b.argyll says:
      9 November, 2015 at 12:45 pm
      Ruby,
      Maybe crowdfunding for..

      .. a campaign to neutralise the deliberate damage being done to the NHS, patients and staff, by media negativity…

      Ruby replies

      The best campaign would be to inform people about the black arts of media manipulation.
      The press could be neutralised if nobody read their papers or seriously questioned what they were being told.

      I doubt if the MSM would give this or any similar campaign any press coverage.

      Crowd Funding Christmas presents/cards/a party for all NHS, police & teaching staff in Scotland telling them how much we appreciate them would be something I would donate to.

    221. yesindyref2 says:

      @K1
      Seems sensible both ways. I can understand Rev getting hot under the collar, I have in similar circumstances in the past. Got webpages pulled by emailing the ISP / host, ccing the ISP’s upstream provider 🙂

      @Angra Mainyu
      It was a chance to have an interesting blether. Got me a bit motivated again to check out sites and do stuff – including logging in to google’s search console which didn’t exist last time I logged in to google! I like the fetch facilty, wasn’t there before, got Friday’s new website reindexed straight away. Up to 4th for very basic domain name keywords which probably noboody would search for 🙂 2nd page for some more important keywords. A bit of patience needed now, some tweaks.

      So thanks to Rev for the article, and Digital Impact for the excuse, a couple of tips on their site, and a bit of motivation!

    222. Petra says:

      Yeah the Daily Record has a lot to answer for and has basically hit an all time journalistic low. Beneath contempt!

      This hospital covers the most highly populated area in Scotland and if anything more people will die now, due to this type of Daily Record article (and there are many), because they’ll be too frightened to call for an ambulance / be taken to hospital. One way or another that will be blamed by Labour and their mouthpiece, the Daily Liar, on the SNP too.

      The Southern General … biggest hospital in Europe ….will resolve its problems and will still be standing when the Daily Record has become totally extinct.

      If Al-Stuarts figures are correct (and I’m sure they are)….

      ”their circulation has plummeted by a massive 11.1%. They have now dropped below the 200,000 mark. As of March 2015 the Daily Record circulation has dropped from 214,914 and is going DOWN. It is sick at 190,985 ….. ”

      it’ll be over and out for them at the very latest 8 years from now. Along the way, as their sales plummet, they’ll have to dump journalist after journalist and I hope that Torcuil Chrichton and nasty piece of work ‘Death Trap’ Vivienne Aitken are the first to go.

      Their latest article is based on the comments of one unnamed ‘casualty medic’. The hospital employs thousands of members of staff who may totally disagree with what’s being said in this newspaper article and / or take the comments personally and be enraged at their good work being undermined. Whatever the case the Daily Record will surely find that those members of staff (and their many relatives) who buy the newspaper (or even support the Labour Party) will stop doing so.

      The Southern General is a state of the art hospital, beautiful inside and probably treats hundreds if not thousands of patients every day to their satisfaction (no phone-in line to the D R for them?). The Daily Record has not printed one constructive article about this hospital since it opened (or the NHS in Scotland for that matter). No doubt because it opened under the SNP watch. If it had been under Labour their articles would have been ‘glowing’.

      It is not trying to enlighten or protect the public at all. Their focus is on selling their rag and undermining the SNP in the hope that the Labour Partys popularity will improve. One has only to take a look at NHS statistics under the Labour Party to know that it was absolutely abysmal and we don’t want to return to that. As one example ‘Up to 50 thousand ‘excess’ deaths were recorded at hospitals during the last Labour Government. (Research by Sir Brian Jarman of Imperial College).’ Did the Daily Record report that?

    223. K1 says:

      Agreed yesIndyref2, I like a well resolved dispute.

    224. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Petra at 2.02pm referred to: “Nasty piece of work ‘Death Trap’ Vivienne Aitken”.

      As one who had the “pleasure” of working alongside Ms Aitken, can I say, to call her “A nasty piece of work” is to be unfair to nasty pieces of work, who are much nicer people than Ms Aitken.

      Journalism seems to attract a sub-species of nasty, horrible women, Ms Aitken is the second-worst example of such creatures it has been my misfortune to meet.

      To me, she is Rosa Kleb’s uglier sister.

    225. Derick says:

      Looks like the Redhurst hotel Giffnock. A hotbed of left wing nationalist fervour. (Was there for a do on Friday / Saturday and saw a small room with Union flags and blue rinses. Of course I may be mistaken



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