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Wings Over Scotland

Swinging free

Posted on August 17, 2016 by

Alert readers may have noticed reports in the press that the famous French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo this month carried a four-page feature on the state of politics in Scotland, having sent two of its senior staff – accompanied by their French police bodyguard – over to conduct a series of interviews.


We thought you might like to see it, so we commissioned a translated version.

Click the images to enlarge.




(C) Charlie Hebdo 2016. Reproduced with permission. Translations by Robert McLiam Wilson. Graphic editing by Lindsay Bruce. Thanks to Gerry Braiden.

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  1. 18 08 16 16:18

    Charlie Hebdo view of Scottish politics | 's Trooth

289 to “Swinging free”

  1. Stoker says:

    Very nice wee treat indeed Rev, thank you!

  2. Thistlekitten says:

    Thank you! My French wasn’t good enough to translate all of the original myself so this was a big help. Interesting perspectives from the various folk.

  3. Grouse Beater says:

    Some translation is funnier than the original cartoon.

  4. Scott Borthwick says:

    Fantastic work. Many thanks to Wings and Charlie.

  5. Gail Robertson says:

    Thanks for that, I had seen this before and was really hoping that I could see the translation, instead of trying to figure it out with my failed o’grade French

  6. Paul says:

    Rev I’m bloody confused, it says it’s a four page feature and I really enjoyed the 3 pages that were in english and was really looking forward to the 4th page…..where’s the 4th page….(although with the size of the pages it does look like a 6 page piece) just confused but it was very enjoyable…especially Tommy Sheppard’s assertion of the 3 things we didn’t vote for which were foisted on us and what makes us different.

  7. Stoker says:

    “Alan Adey – Rangers fan and owner of the bar just across the street from Pittenweem harbour”

    Hypocrisy doesn’t even begin to cut it but, boy, have they got him down to a ‘T’. What they don’t point out though, which would have polished off that satirical strip perfectly, was any mention to the recent fishing protests outside Holyrood. Remember the orange smoke bombs? Organised and attended by fishermen of a similar footballing faith to Alan Adey. I know several of them, including the elected mouthpiece we witnessed interviewed as their spokesman on tv.

    Once again, thank you Rev and everyone else behind this.

  8. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Great work! Thanks to all involved in the original and the translation.

    The “nice old man that nobody could understand’… could he be Ms Dugdale’s current media coach?

  9. louis.b.argyll says:

    Who’s been reading Wings then..

  10. bugger (le Panda) says:

    @Paul, the 2nd and 3rd is the two page one, second from the bottom

  11. Donald Kerr says:

    Well done, the lot of you!

  12. louis.b.argyll says:

    It’s brilliant, an accurate sketch, yet irreverent.

  13. Kevin says:

    Very good. Excellent translation by R Wilson.
    Thanks for posting this, Stu

  14. heedtracker says:

    It would be great to hear what their readers think too. Also Jackson Carlaw’s lying like only toryboy can. If “Leave wasn’t underpinned by,” why is Bojo currently the stand in UKOK Prime Minister right now? Perfidious Albion, French readers.

  15. galamcennalath says:

    The first or only English translation of this, I think? Well done!

    While everyone is real, it does capture the some different typical viewpoints well.

    It is interesting that despite clearly taking to a variety of Unionists, the overall conclusion is that Indy will come.

  16. Training Day says:

    I knew Charlie Hebdo was a satirical magazine, but they’ve excelled themselves next to the pictures of the Herald shills: ‘Scotland is enjoying a renaissance of top-quality political writing’.


  17. heedtracker says:

    French satire, “Scotland’s enjoying a renaissance of top-quality political writing, Leask and Braiden of the Herald.” Zut alors!

  18. Sputnik one day Charlie Hebdo the next,

    `bolshoe spasibo` and `merci beaucoup`,

    journalism as it should/could be.

  19. Stu Mac says:

    Is that guy from the Big Issue really that naïve. Homeless folk aren’t going into hiding from the BI folk, they are being chased away by crooks with a massive begging operation: as you can see any day on the streets of Glasgow.

  20. Muscleguy says:

    Oh Rev, you are spoiling us. An authorised version too, with permission. I’m all over impressed, with you, your collaborators, with Charlie Hebdo for agreeing.

    One for the archives. Send it to the Museum of Scotland for preservation.

  21. Doug Daniel says:

    Nice one.

    How depressing are the views of the fisherman, priest and the Big Issue guy, though? Hmmm, sounds like a film title, that.

  22. heedtracker says:

    Don’t get their UK post Brexit statue, draped skeleton clutching a book, on Braiden’s kitchen table? Its interesting that they didn’t mention the sheer weight of yoon pressure across the whole of the UK media in Scotland though.

    Reading this, at exact same time, BBC r4 had a thing extolling and lauding the Common Wealth, grovelling and worshipping the queen and prince and all by Quentin Letts, of the Daily Heil. Goebbels would’ve been very jealous.

  23. Craig P says:

    Many thanks for that! Couldn’t help noticing how miserable they’ve made Patrick Harvie look.

  24. Red squirrel says:

    Great to have the translation & it can only be good for Scotland’s case in EU to share how different we are from those Brexit nutters. Thank you Rev & Charlie.

  25. Bob Mack says:

    I loved the last bit about the last man elected as a Communist who now votes SNP would know if the SNP was left wing or not. Brilliant stuff. There are so many gems to pick out of this piece.

  26. Grouse Beater says:

    Well done all concerned, but tell you one thing, Chris Cairns is the Raeburn to Hebdo’s scrappy cartoonist.

  27. Schrödinger's Dug says:

    I do feel somewhat sorry for Donald Low, he is a nice guy, quite funny, the dangerous comes from the wit that has vertically challenged people nicknamed lofty. He is the perfect example of Indoctrination via anti Scottish propaganda the BBC the unionist press all a vehicle for indoctrinating the masses.

    My own Mum, in the NHS since leaving school till she retired as Midwifery Sister in charge ICU, said some time ago the NHS was in a terrible state, I asked her how, she said it’s in all the papers, I told her the papers are lying, she looked at me as if I had lost my mind. Luckily she has a son who is as far from an idiot as can be, and could give her empirical evidence that the Scottish Health Service, is the best public health service in the world, and out performs the other Health services in these islands.

    My Mum, 83 now votes SNP.

    I am going to France soon, the first stop, a newsagents for an original Charlie!

    Long may your balls swing free!

  28. Chitterinlicht says:

    Interesting and ta.

    First time in ages i have seen David Leask’s actual words due to his uncontrollable turrets like blocking addiction.They were worth reading and as was everyones in the cartoon.

  29. ‘Closer to a Liberation Movement’. Willie Clarke.
    Five little words, but sums up, while our millions of posts struggle to enunciate, Self Determination for Scotland.
    Brilliant translation, chapeau, WoS Team.
    Allons, enfants !

  30. Schrödinger's Dug says:

    Before the paper’s have their spin.

    Employment rate
    England 74.8
    Wales 72.2
    Scotland 74.1
    Northern Ireland 69.0

  31. Proud Cybernat says:

    Oooohh FFS. This is bloody genius. Nails the ‘national conversation’ perfectly. Just so many brilliant comments to choose from. Those tory fisherman want to ditch the blinkers and listen to that communist coalminer. There they are, out on the seas with the sun on their backs all day long and they can see nothing but their fucking wallets. And then we have a communist coalminer working all day long in the dark who can see as clear as day what is really wrong with this country.


    Je suis Charlie!!

  32. louis.b.argyll says:

    Re BBC presenter of opinionated history programmes (N.Oliver) leaving twitter (to grab a cheap headline)..

    So, in the grand scheme of history, a historian is worried about his wee daughter and potential bullying, while living in one of the safest places on Earth.

    At the same time he campaigns for and backs the UK state, he supports an elitist pyramid class of Capitalist warmongers, and he knows it.

    The UK is now ASSISTING SAUDI ARABIA IN OPERATIONS that now spreads more war to Yemen (apartheid regime), actually killing innocent children, doctors, nurses, aid workers, protesters, journalists.

    Try living there with children, Neil. Oh wait, you know better.


  33. Dr Jim says:

    Well done the French

    Scottish media makes up what it wants to happen and then calls it fact

  34. louis.b.argyll says:

    Oops typo there..

  35. heedtracker says:

    Hardest anti independence hitter’s got to be the Provost of St Mary’s Cathedral, xenophobia, racism, homophobia, flags, symbols, accents are now important, spreading to England, “failure of liberalism,” fig leaf civic nationalism, he’s got all that UKOK stuff going on. No idea what a Provost of a cathedral does though.

  36. ArtyHetty says:

    Excellent, a treat indeed and some very astute people out there, here in Scotland. The priest should take more note of of the attitudes from some in the unionist parties in westminster towards gay people, it is not the ‘nationalists’ stoking up hatred.

    In fact a copy of this should go to the National Library or Scotland, ideally.

  37. Macart says:

    That’s outstanding work by Charlie Hebdo and the translators.

    Kudos to all involved.

  38. Chic McGregor says:

    What is it with Fishermen and farmers? the two groups which stand most to gain from an independent Scotland in the EU.

    Don’t they want a new advantageous fishing quota deal? massive increase to farming subsidies to which Scottish farmers would be automatically entitled if Scotland was an independent EU member?

    Or do they imagine that in a Brexit scenario Westminster will no longer sell them off or misappropriate grants as before?

    If anything, they will be even more expendable in the new UK-EU relationship as the enormity of England’s mistake dawns on them.

  39. Dan Huil says:

    Merci, Charlie. Merci Robert McLiam.

  40. mr thms says:


    BBC Scotland’s weather map as seen from space yesterday

  41. Schrödinger's Dug says:

    Yes I noticed your typo Mr Oliver is not a historian his degree is archaeology. His profession is state propagandist.

  42. Artyhetty says:


    I guess should be on O/T, but anyway, these Statistics are broken donw by ‘region’, Scotland being a ‘region’ according to the Office of National statistics. I think we can do our own figures thank you very much!

  43. Schrödinger's Dug says:

    Off Topic
    Artyhetty says:11:11 am

    pedant. 🙂

  44. galamcennalath says:

    Jack Collatin says:

    “‘Closer to a Liberation Movement’. Willie Clarke.”

    That caught my attention too.

    I’m always slightly uncomfortable with the words ‘nationalist’ and ‘nationalism’. In discussions I refer to myself as a pro democracy activist. ‘Nat’ seems to need the word ‘civic’ in front of it because of the many negative historical and current associations.

    Let’s face it, Scotland problems are mostly caused by nationalists … not Scottish ones, but British/English ones! When the media say ‘Nats’ they mean us … they never ever mean BritNats. They understand the negative aura surrounding nationalism. Similarly when media and politicians call the SNP, the Scottish Nationalist Party, they know what they are doing, it’s not a mistake.

    Nationalism doesn’t need to imply anything nasty, of course, but is does come with a lot of historical baggage.

    “Liberation movement” seems an very accurate description of what we are about.

  45. Chic McGregor says:


    St Mary’s Cathederal, is, I believe, Episcopalian.

    The Scottish Episcopalian church seems to be moving ever closer to the CoE, it is now a member of the Anglican Communion and partly recognises the position of the Archbishop of Canterbury.

    Membership is less than 1% of the Scottish population.

    In other words, about as demographically representative as the Wee Frees would be.

  46. louis.b.argyll says:

    You say potato. (state propagandist)

    I say potahtoe. (BBC/TV presenter)

    Let’s call the whole thing off.

  47. Effijy says:

    Mange Tout Rev!

    Great work in letting us see ourselves from another very important perspective.

    Westminster will be angry that Russians and now the French are have allowed us access to alternative narratives.

    O/T I have always enjoyed the Olympics, but in the past,
    I was more in awe of the amature athletes who did all that they could with their own time and resources to advance
    the physical capabilities of mankind.

    I cannot get behind the achievements of the wealthy nations
    and the super rich competitors to the same degree.

    I’m reading about the Kit for a UK Cyclist cost upwards of £10,000. This is the tip of the ice berg when you take into account all the training facilities, coaches, dieticians, sports psychologists etc.

    Can we really claim to be on a level playing field with a
    first class cyclist from Malawi?

    The medals gained seems to have acted as a UK cure all for the masses, who have lost sight of health drugs being too expensive for the terminally ill, the shortage of Doctors, the failing economy, and the corruption of party politics.

    Can I return to the honesty and equality of amature sports, and see the Lottery monies being re-directed to
    the needy, be it health or economic adversity that needs to be supported?

    Sovereignty, Justice, & Freedom!

  48. rongorongo says:

    I loved this – many thanks for arranging the translation. My French is pretty good but it needs somebody with considerably more talent to capture Charlie Hebdo articles properly.

    I like that readers are left to form their own opinion, that we see what the interviewer and cartoonist notice around them and that we get a whole tableau of opinion. And I am sorry that the closest approximation we have is “Private Eye”.

  49. heedtracker says:

    Chic McGregor says:
    17 August, 2016 at 11:24 am

    St Mary’s Cathederal, is, I believe, Episcopalian.

    I see. Not only do I not know what a Provost of a cathedral is, I don’t know what a Episcopalian is either, I am that much of a Scots heathen barbarian.

    Patrick Harvie looks uncharacteristically miserable though, but clearly he was trying to show the French just how GREEN he is, greetin face but GREEN!

  50. Karen Jones says:

    Great to see it translated – my school French wasn’t quite up to it, I’m afraid. I did wonder what the hell I’d said. Now awaiting my date to have my head chopped off at the tower.

    It’s a great piece and I’m so glad they covered what’s happening here.

  51. David says:

    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!

  52. harry mcaye says:

    Somebody give Donald Low, the harbourmaster from Pittenweem, a Wee Black Book or point him the way of GA Ponsonby. He seems to swallow every scare story from Distorting Scotland – “horrific stories about health” We’re the best performing NHS in the UK, Donald! BBC would rather you didn’t know that.

    Thought the Rangers fan Andy was spot on about the selfish fisherman.

  53. Takeour blueback says:

    Can I just say what a great wee translation, but one thing that strikes me over and over again – That Carlaw bloke is a wee nyaff!


  54. Helen Ross says:

    Just the coda to critique.
    Can Scottish Nationalism be authentically of the left? Either Willie Clarke is right, or he’s wrong and if he’s wrong, Scottish Independence will be the most desperate con job in political history.

    (IMHO,Willie Clarke is not wrong. Robert is not wrong either. But a salad without a touch of vinegar is too bland.)

  55. Chic McGregor says:


    I wasn’t all that much wiser, although I knew of them because my best friend went to the Episcopalian primary school attached to the cathedral in Perth.

    The facts given were courtesy of ‘Something Wiki this way comws’.

  56. Spout says:


    The McAveety and Deputy section is incredibly funny and accurately sums up the state of affairs (intellectually and politically) in the city chambers so pithily.

    Roll on May…..

  57. mogabee says:

    This is brilliant..fair impressed.

  58. heedtracker says:

    Chic McGregor says:
    17 August, 2016 at 11:58 am

    Religious nomenclature ignorance is one thing but when you even begin to even think about what has happened to children at the hands of churchmen, then read this guy’s astonishing attack on fledgling Scottish democracy, especially that its all a failure of liberalism, worse, a failure of “liberal society,” his very strong brand of vote NO stuff is, er, rather hard to swallow.

  59. qwertyfiable says:

    Fantastic Rev, was so interested to see that, cheers.

  60. heedtracker says:

    5 hours ago in the Herald, example of their top quality political writing Renaissance?

    “SECRET SNP research found the party’s uncompromising online supporters, the so-called cybernats, damaged the independence cause, one of Alex Salmond’s former advisers has claimed.

    Alex Bell said internal party polling and focus groups found dogmatic online Nationalists held back the Yes movement by repelling rather than converting swing voters before the referendum.”

    Its probably no SECRET that this creep’s going to making quite a lot of dosh out of dudes like Leask. In only in Scotland region can you watch toryboy rage at freedom of speech. Well not only Scotland but yoon fury at freedom of speech is certainly as creepy as Bell is.

  61. John McCall says:

    I’m impressed they found the bar PatronisingBTLady drinks in and actually interviewed her. It’s a good likeness.

  62. Kelpie says:

    The phrase that stood out for me was from Gerry Braiden: Scotland has always been allowed to be different.

    Been allowed! By whom? Hmmph.

  63. K1 says:

    Excellent collaboration Rev…time we saw some real journalist’s reporting on Scotland.

    Juice wee Charlie Revbdo.


  64. Valerie says:

    Fantastic, really enjoyed the layout, it’s engaging and visual.

    Funny how others see us. I worked in Stirling for a long time, and never saw the Wallace monument as freaky! I can see how they might see it as incongruous.

    Disappointed in Kevin Holdsworth. He says he is an openly gay priest, in Scotland. If he was CoE, and gay, in England, he would be risking getting sacked.

    I know this, because I’m reading frequent examples from a CoE FB friend based down south. There is a huge controversy in that church, about gay priests, their marriages, and their presiding over marriages.

    Yet, he reckons that the civic part of Scottish nationalism is shallow.

    We know Scotland is not perfect, there will always be some racists, or homophobes, but the law here is applied, and designed to support.

  65. Schrödinger's Dug says:

    “SECRET SNP research found the party’s uncompromising online supporters, the so-called cybernats, damaged the independence cause, one of Alex Salmond’s former advisers has claimed.

    Really, god, I mean shocking, telling the truth is bad? holding up the press lies to the population Bad?

    No if your enemy attacks you its because you are hurting them, I have always been struck by the argument put by anti wings brigade as Don’t read, there be monsters, never defining what’s incorrect. Really? wings vile? really? some wingers would like to think they are, but you’re not.

    Brian Spanner he is vile, half the lunatics behind the No camp are a short hop from the asylum. Honestly I hope Mr Bell thinks he is doing well, but I fear he is backing the wrong side.
    I suppose being on the “Vile” Wings blog I should say something, so here it is, “Down with that sort of thing” and “Shame on you Sir, thrice Shame on you!”

    The Unionist argument!
    Uncompromising No to second referendum good

    Uncompromising Yes to second referendum bad

  66. Mark Russell says:

    Thanks for publishing this. Good to know Willie Clarke is still on the park – and very much on then ball. Charlie Hebdo – that would raise a few smiles in the Goth and Benarty Tevern! A true gentleman and a man of principle.

  67. HandandShrimp says:

    If the minister thinks civic nationalism is too thin a veneer then he should be really worried about civic unionism.

    I would also have liked to hear what views he expressed about an independent Scotland before someone asked him if he would stay if there was an independent Scotland. There is nothing malevolent about a genuine question whether an ardent unionist would stay if Scotland became independent.

    If he had said “I am voting No but I will stay if it is Yes” would have been a perfectly acceptable answer in my book to a perfectly reasonable question.

    Other than that I enjoyed the piece it was a good range of views and nicely encapsulated the range of debate we hear on a day to day basis.

  68. Stoker says:

    Valerie wrote:

    “We know Scotland is not perfect, there will always be some racists, or homophobes,”

    Very true! One of those inconvenient truths i’m afraid. As is the fact that there are probably murderers, rapists and paedos out there who believe in our cause. Every country in the world has them and those of them who walk among us have a vote sadly!

    BTW, no matter how many times you read over those satire strips they just keep getting better, made my day!

  69. Grouse Beater says:

    Kelpie: “The phrase that stood out for me was from Gerry Braiden: Scotland has always been allowed to be different.”

    Hoo haar. That remark would get a punch on the nose from a few good natured Scots I know, none prone to aggression.

  70. carjamtic says:

    Thanks Rev. The day just got a wee bit breezier.


  71. Betty Boop says:

    @ Proud Cybernat, 10:32am

    Nails the ‘national conversation’ perfectly.

    Exactly. As I read through the article, it was a reprise of conversations heard on the street for the past few years.

    The lady from the Czech Republic was spot on when she said that “Scotland’s modern but England feels like its going back to some kind of Middle Ages. England is weighing Scotland down”.

    Yet, still, some folk who seem to have little notion of what Scotland has been and could yet be again, have to be convinced.

  72. ScottishPsyche says:

    A good snapshot of a country in a state of change. It is fascinating to see the different views, many of which are far more measured and realistic than the hyperbole of our political commentators. There is no evidence of settled will despite the two referendums.

    After publishing this WoS will be even more an enemy of the state.

    Does anyone know the circumstances of Alex Bell leaving his job with the SNP? It seems extremely personal and bitter and although he says he still supports the SNP, you would not get that from anything he has said since 2013. Is he saying that had the SNP listened to him Scotland would have been independent?

    I agree with others who have said there is now a consistent drip drip in the MSM to keep the cybernat theme alive as well as consistent attempts to shut down WoS as an Indy voice. KH was doing a wee jig in delight at the Bell piece in the Herald.

    I look forward to the secret polling being revealed – is this the secret Canadian polling or some other secret polling?

  73. Jimbo says:


  74. heedtracker says:

    I would also have liked to hear what views he expressed about an independent Scotland before someone asked him if he would stay if there was an independent Scotland.

    Unionists arguing NO, using conversations like the way he does, well its a cheap trick, among the countless cheap trick unionists use. But they also don’t even like the word unionist, with the implication that there is in fact not one UK in total and that there could be a part of the ways.

    I heard that from a unionist, a passionate British nationalist:D

  75. Dr Jim says:

    It’s getting easier and easier to check on Scotlands progress because every time the Scottish Government do something good or make an announcement Yoon Twitterworld goes totally mental with rage and bile usually all directed at the FM
    And the more crazy they get is always a sign of how well things are going, it’s as good as having an online poll

    The funny thing is most of the abuse on the FMs Titter is from people who don’t even live in Scotland, they live elsewhere in these Islands and it makes you wonder, what on earth’s wrong with these people, they just seem to hate for hates sake

    Then you think well these must be the same folk who voted for Brexit because they hate foreigners who they haven’t met either
    We used to hear about some countries closing down their media and think what a terrible thing to happen but then again maybe they had the same problem the UK does with a media who’s intention is not to report news but create it and shape it by propaganda lies thus making themselves the ruling political party missing out the whole democratic bit altogether

    I would have no desire to live in a police state but I must say the Press must be held accountable for the damage they create by promoting hatred and division and actively lying to people for their own political agenda (Carmichael)

    I get quite distressed at times when I read the FMs Twitter replies both for her and Peter Murrell, what she has to endure on our behalf is nothing short of astonishing and if she were my daughter, coz that’s how old I am, I don’t think I could bring myself to look

    Now that they’ve teamed up to deny the FMs dad a councillors job they’ve openly admitted they’re going after her Mum
    Do what you’re told FM or yer Maw gets it

    There is a job I’d like, it’s not a councillor, but keys are involved

  76. heedtracker says:

    I would have no desire to live in a police state but I must say the Press must be held accountable for the damage they create by promoting hatred and division and actively lying to people for their own political agenda (Carmichael)

    We’re owned by a super rich tiny cabal. They have so much to lose. We have so much to gain.

  77. HandandShrimp says:


    Does Alex Bell still support the SNP?

    As far as I can see, he is the pin up boy for most Unionists I see posting on line. I think just about everything I have seen from Alex from before the referendum has been hugely negative. Whatever the reason behind the parting of the ways, bitter is exactly the word I would use to describe the relationship.

    If I see his name in relation to anything I expect anti-SNP/independence rant that would warm the cockles of Euan McCall’s blood pump.

  78. Iain More says:

    “Does Alex Bell still support the SNP? ”

    Naw he is a toady for the Brit Nats now! See Alex Bell and se Torrance, I am not sure which one is now worse.

  79. heedtracker says:

    Red and blue toryboys also enjoy Bell’s cybernat’s are evil stuff in the Herald. So does this mean Cybertories like Dr NO and Mccolm are damaging the unionist’s cause too?

    Scott Arthur Retweeted
    Tom Gordon ?@HTScotPol 8h8 hours ago
    Cybernats are damaging the independence cause, says former Alex Salmond aide

    euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 5h
    euan mccolm Retweeted The Lawman
    this is response to news a former salmond adviser says cybernats harm the yes cause.

  80. ScottishPsyche says:


    I’m going from this quote from the Herald. Granted it is ambiguous.

    “But I’m afraid to say that the party I’ve supported for my life time isn’t very good at delivering hard, substantial, evidence-based change.”

  81. Iain More says:

    On topic.

    I think I will open a bottle of merlot for a change.

  82. Tinto Chiel says:

    Betty Boop said, “The lady from the Czech Republic was spot on when she said that “Scotland’s modern but England feels like its going back to some kind of Middle Ages. England is weighing Scotland down”.

    What is it about the Czechs? They seem rather well educated about the Scots. Our tour guide in Prague Castle, a certain Tomas, gave us a lecture on how Slavia Prague achieved greatness under the ex-Celtic player John Madden, how the original crowning stone on the hill where the castle stands was reminiscent of the Scottish Stone of Destiny and that some of the assassins of Heydrich were trained in Scotland.

    His favourite manager? Alex Ferguson. Film? Trainspotting? Character? Begbie.

    To top it off, when pointing out the American Embassy from the castle, he turned to us and said loudly, to the chagrin of some of the other tourists, “No Scottish embassy yet. Next time, eh?”

    All this delivered in impeccable and idiomatic English.

    A strange but inspiring little experience.

  83. heedtracker says:

    Does Alex Bell still support the SNP?

    He really does and in the exact same fashion that guy Loki does. Kerching!

    Takes all kinds of sleaze bags, feeding off nascent democracies like Scotland’s.

  84. Grouse Beater says:

    “Does Alex Bell still support the SNP? ”

    I’m as sure as I can be from his repeat behaviour we will be told in due couse he’s a paid shill, (previously known as an informant) same as the miner’s deputy leader under Scargill, Peter Heathfield, who reported direct to Thatcher’s office.

    My intuition issues from Bells unerring capacity to brief against his alleged political party at the drop of an invitation from the MSM, yet not appear to care about justified accusations of disloyalty on unprofessional conduct.

  85. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 17 August, 2016 at 10:08 am:
    “I loved the last bit about the last man elected as a Communist who now votes SNP would know if the SNP was left wing or not.”

    Aye! Bob Mack, but bear in mind that Willie Clarke has been a well loved, and well respected, councillor in these airts an pairts for a very long time.

    Furthermore if anyone imagines Willie’s version of Communism is the same as that of the Soviet Union then they just do not know Willie Clarke.

    A hard working councillor who could not do more for everyone in his patch. Willie will be sair missed no matter who takes over his patch.

  86. Bob Mack says:

    I stand to be corrected, but was not Alex Bell one of the main authors and contributors to the White Paper he now openly criticises ? He is therefore criticising himself. I think he should send himself an apology without delay.

    He sounds very much the scorned man with a damaged ego to rehabilitate. Attacking the cause of that damaged ego is he believes his “cure .” I will show them they were wrong to cross me ,type of scenario.

  87. Bill McLean says:

    Don’t know much about Alex Bell but it’s often the case that when someone “swaps sides” they do their very best to ingratiate themselves quicklywith those they have moved to. As far as I know the only investigation into social media comments was made in 2012 by Dr Mark Shepherd of Strathclyde University. He hosted a discussion in the House of Commons entitled “Discourse on Scottish Independence – Politicians versus Publics”. The newspaper report states “The findings based on analysis of online comments under articles on independence, show the vast majority of posts are anti-SNP/independence and anti-Salmond rather than anti-English/anti-union. In terms of language, too, comments about the SNP and independence are much more vitriolic than about the union and UK” I don’t know if any further reports have been done but this may be useful for those arguing on Twitter or Facebook – neither of which I will use. The article was in the Scotsman (sorry) on 8th May 2012.

  88. Robert Wilson says:

    Robert Wilson here (I did the original CH report with Riss, the cartoonist & boss). Thank you to everyone who made kind comments. This was great work by the WOS people. Getting the text organised into those speech bubbles is nightmarishly difficult.
    We had a wonderful time doing this report. I’d never seen Riss so relaxed. Loved Glasgow, loved Scotland, loved the people (the easiest task in the world is getting a Scot to tell you what they think about stuff).
    Willie Clarke was, quite simply, one of the finest men I’ve ever met. What a privilege…

  89. X_Sticks says:

    I suspect Alex Bell was never actually on the indy side. He’s now a useful tool for the yoons to use as “ex SNP advisor” to continue their attempts to undermine the people’s confidence in the SNP. It’s all they’ve got.

  90. Hamish100 says:

    The Episcopalian church in my neck of the woods tends to be well to do conservatives, a higher proportion of the folk from south of the border and are clearly anti independence for Scotland. How I wish I could say my Church of Scotland was pro independence but it reflects Scotland in some ways. Older folk are brits younger ones are Scots.

  91. Alba 46 says:

    Charlie Hebdo was in Scotland for a couple of days and managed to see and report information that the Unionist can’t or won’t see. Journalism at its satirical best.

    Was at the photographic exhibition by Glaswegian Harry Benson currently on display at the Scottish Parliament. Some great photoes on display. I enjoyed the photoes of Woodward and Bernstein the Washinton Post reporters who through great investigative journalism uncovered the the Watergate break in and subsequent cover up.

    These were proper investigative journalists at the top of their game who pursued the truth despite the odds. Compare their work with the current dross pumped out by the BBC, Herald, Record, Mail and all the other unionist so called media.

    Amateurism doesn’t cover what we have to put up with

  92. call me dave says:

    Joan Sturgeon and SNP colleagues have stepped down as administration of North Ayrshire Council after by-election defeat

    I’m sure that will be a temporary situation. 🙂

  93. heedtracker says:

    Gits like Bell and Loki will no doubt apply. There’s no neck like a UKOK brass neck.

  94. Breeks says:

    Sputnik, Hebdo,…Here’s hoping this is just the thin edge of the wedge, and by the time the next Indy vote is imminent, I hope Scotland is awash with foreign journos and commentators all showing up the UK media for what it is.
    That’s not forgetting our home grown talent, I like Jack Foster, and Chris Cairns of course. It’s all good as far as I can see. It’s worth the price of admission just to see the BBC and Herald both frothing at the mouth.

    YES 2014 was largely done without much European support. Next time around, I’m sure we’ll get by with a little help from our friends. I actually think that is where the real impact of Brexit will reveal itself. Lots of nice postcards from Europe, “wishing you were here”.

    Tinged with sadness of course, that the French Police bodyguard wasn’t a spoof, but there in earnest. My deep respect goes out to all at Charlie Hebdo. You’ve a lot more courage and integrity than a good number of Scottish “journalists”. Je suis Charlie.

  95. Senlac88 says:

    For the record Rev, I’m happy to do any French/Spanish/Portuguese to English translations free of charge in the future. Would be nice to put my otherwise useless degree to use for something! 😉

  96. Angelo says:

    When in Brussels a few weeks with a group friends we had lunch in a family run restaurant
    When the owners daughter asked where we were from and we told her Scotland a big smile lit up her face and she said ” We are so happy you want to stay with us ”
    Fair made us feel chuffed

  97. heedtracker says:

    Ms Sturgeon responded by saying she could have called a vote on independence straight away, but did not in order to give the UK the chance to find a way forward.

    But a man from Northern Ireland claimed Ms Sturgeon was sowing the seeds of division within the UK by raising the prospect of another independence referendum.”

    A man from Northern Ireland claimed’s nae bad. England’s Britnats and Brexiteers dont want to give up control of their Scotland region but its a different thing in Northern Ireland. It was probably old Cleggster of the Record anyway. He’s even more Britnat determined than his upper class twit colleague Torquil.

  98. ScottishPsyche says:

    The North Ayrshire council resignation had to happen It was an impossible situation to manage. Slab would have carped and blocked from the sidelines as is their wont. Now they have to get on with it. It will be interesting to see how many of those Independents are truly independent now.

    A reminder of how important it is to get out the vote for the 2017 elections as Slab can now rely on Tory transferrable votes and vice versa.

  99. louis.b.argyll says:

    The five rings of the Colloseum / Olympics haven’t changed much..
    2nd class citizens

    Each class puts forward it’s champions..

    Worldwide, we/GB are viewed as first class opposition, which doesn’t win any friends.

    Maybe the UK can show off a few gold plated development projects though..or sell some military advancement.?

    But whatever, there is no additional pride to ne gained from NOT overcoming adversity, individual sporting excellence is used to turn success into glory.

    It is not for glory that I mention this..

  100. mike cassidy says:

    For those who wish to see what an affectionate caricature that was of Willie Clarke.

    Will be interesting to see how the byelection for his old seat works out next week.

    Personally only seen snp people campaigning.

  101. galamcennalath says:

    The Telegraph, in is quest to keep up the SNPBad agenda, seems willing print any old pish.

    “.. a Northern Irish academic took her to task … an engineer at the University of Glasgow, told the SNP leader that her rhetoric around a second independence referendum was making him feel unwelcome in Scotland as a Yes vote would mean he would not be a citizen in the country where he lives.”

    Just how wrong is it possible to be? As a resident of Scotland, he will be entitled to Scottish citizenship and passport. Should he decline this, he will retain his UK citizenship like an other expat living outside the UK, or rUK as it of course would be.

    However, to really gild the lily, this guy should also be entitled to an Irish passport and citizenship!

    Sound to be like a dream ticket would be on offer for him – dual Irish and Scottish citizenship!

    And yet, he feels he might be deprived of something. He clearly wants Scotland to stay under foreign control, so he doesn’t feel foreign.

    Then the Telegraph chooses to spin this into SNPBad, again.

  102. HandandShrimp says:


    A Unionist from Norn Ireland?

    Is such a thing possible? 😉

  103. Alex Clark says:

    Thanks for the translation. Thing that stuck out to me is how Charlie Hebdo was totally impartial.

    Very important that in my view.

    I also was really interested to read the views of those oposed to Independence. All without exception were based on what they believe the Independence movement to be. All of which the MSM tell them what it is.

    That gives me some hope, they lack information, REAL information, so our job is to give them that. The false assumptions many have are totally due to the propaganda fed daily. Therein lies the battlefield.

    I love Wings because simply it attacks/ridicules MSM propaganda on a daily basis. I know we need to persuade people of the benefits of Independence as we see them and there is no doubt that one of the best ways to do this is to show them how the lies from the state influence their opinion.

    Open peoples eyes to the truth. A sure road to Independence.

  104. Alastair says:

    What a fun informative post.

    I tried to catch up on Scottish politics this afternoon on a long drive south. Peterhead to Perth. Lets listen to Radio Scotland. Must be best place for Scottish political scene. 3 o’clock and 4 o’clock. I had heard last night that the First Minister was meeting 400+ people who had chosen to build a life with us in Scotland and do a Q and A. I thought different, inclusive, radical even. So I was interested to hear – What did she say and what did they say. First Minister no less. Our senior politician, the democratic voice of Scotland. Hot topic.
    3 and 4 – two sentences that the event happened but no – What she said and what they said. Drug related deaths up and some in depth and a thing called an expert. Some guy Smith, Welsh I believe has challenged the elected leader of the Labour Party out of normal election cycle. Now is that English Labour as Scottish Labour are autonomous- I didn’t know. But it’s pretty important because there was in depth analysis and long clip from Mr Smith of what he said and what they said. But still no What she said and what they said. (Can never trust a man who feels he needs to stand on a box to be heard) Olympics – team Uk second but China have more medals don’t know how that works and interviews of that they all said . Unemployment figures next with an obviously Uk London packet of the welcome news of reducing unemployment even after Britex – I’m really slipping I missed we had already left. But still no What she said and what they said.
    Should I go to another source to find out. What we need is a new say Edinburgh base news outlet that may inform me of What she said and what they said. I would love to know.

  105. Tam Jardine says:


    I read that telegraph piece. “Conservative”… need we go any further?

    Patrick says: “They in fact want to make it such that I will no longer be a citizen of the country in which I live.”

    How vacuous- he seems pretty relaxed with his EU citizenship being revoked against his will. Thats OK and it is OK for my EU citizenship to be revoked in Patrick’s world as well. Any plans I have to move to the EU or travel or do business in the EU- thats all OK if thats all fooked and my pension goes down the pan because hes a tory his precious UK citizenship MUST be saved at all cost.

    The question may be “which citizenship is revoked” although it is not clear anyone’s citizenship will be.

    Acht- if you want to get on board then fine but otherwise up yours. I am quite happy with a majority yes vote next time round and will not weep for the entrenched dregs.

    I expect Patrick from Northern Ireland also thinks nationalism in Scotland is a particularly dark, evil force; blood and soil and aw that, and that the Yes campaign was violent, aggressive and divisive.

    Bottom line is- Patrick voted remain and in doing so he essentially voted to stay in EU and break up the UK: if he wanted locked into the UK he should have voted leave. It is hardly Nicola Sturgeon’s fault or anyone else’s if he fucked up his vote. Deal with it.

  106. galamcennalath says:

    Sometimes stating the obvious is oddly seen as newsworthy … especially when it can be spun as SNP bad.

    “SNP more unpopular than Putin or Trump among Brexit voters, poll reveals”

    A UK-wide YouGov survey found that those who wanted to quit the EU didn’t like the SNP. Who could possibly have guessed that!?

  107. heedtracker says:

    English satire this time, the Britnats have gone mad and it shows itself at Rio 2016

    “None of this explains the BBC, which has brought Rio close to a British National party awayday. The Chinese had it right. They used to dedicate their medals to the Chinese Communist party and people, who after all had paid for them”

    Just as well Simon doesn’t follow Dr NO! style Britnats in Scotland, maybe he does:(

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 13h13 hours ago
    The 4 UK nations of #TeamGB pull and share resources to punch above their weight at #Rio2016

  108. ScottishPsyche says:

    Just seen the Northern Irish engineer who spoke at the FM’s meeting with EU citizens this afternoon.

    Across the networks, his disjointed and paranoid rant has been given more air time than the most of the actual EU citizens. Not one interviewer has scrutinised what the hell he was going on about.

    If there was a more cynical and orchestrated attempt to hijack an event I would like to know.

  109. Sassenach says:

    Re Nicola’s meeting today with EU residents, if you want to watch the whole thing and form your own opinions (rather that the Torygraph, or BBC) then it can be viewed here

  110. Chic McGregor says:

    I haven’t watched any of the olympics, not even Andy Murray, just the occasional glimpse while channel flipping.

    The associated drug use and the capital N Nationalism rendered it pointless to me many years ago.

  111. Dr Jim says:

    I think the guy from Northern Ireland who was complaining still had his apron on
    Dr Scott Arthur seems to also have re invented Northern Ireland as a country “The 4 nations?” and I thought Scotland was only a region, he said that not so long ago
    Maybe he doesn’t do geography or history or, well anything really except open his very own big giant ill informed mouth in the sure and certain knowledge that the deliberately ill informed media will back him up

    This is the same media who complain about North Korea and Russia being corrupt

    Makes you think

  112. HandandShrimp says:

    A UK-wide YouGov survey found that those who wanted to quit the EU didn’t like the SNP. Who could possibly have guessed that!?

    Thank goodness! As much clear blue water between the Brexiteers and Scotland the better. 🙂

  113. heedtracker says:

    Dr Scott Arthur seems to also have re invented Northern Ireland as a country “The 4 nations?” and I thought Scotland was only a region, he said that not so long ago

    Its his “punching” things above our weight that’s rather creepy. But the British Olympic spend stats are astonishing. TeamGEnglandB cycling squad gets over £32 million a year alone, all of it goes into England ofcourse.

  114. yesindyref2 says:

    Saw a reference on huff post to our hero Kevin Hague (about iScotland not being 13th if our own Olympics team, but his version is just as incaccurate, it actually ignores the team members who won gold as part of a team), and he’s sulking because a letter he wrote and published on his blog wasn’t published in the Herald, a letter in which he contradicted our own Alasadair Galloway (who actually did do economics, rather than dog food).

    Not surprisingly the KH letter is a long-winded dog’s breakfast which is one of the reasons it wasn’t published I daresay, there are possibly others which KH’s arrogance wouldn’t even know about (e.g. copyright).

    But our hero KH refers to a Cuthberts paper in 2008 which says “HM Treasury data [..] has been vetted thoroughly by statisticians in Scotland, and they have shown themselves willing to override the Treasury’s figures” as support for himself, neglecting Jim Cuthbert’s own description of the article: “This article welcomes the appearance of the Scottish Government’s latest GERS publication. The latest GERS incorporates significant methodological improvements over earlier versions. There is still, however, plenty of scope for further improvements, both in GERS, and Scotland’s wider economic statistics.“.

    Not surprisingly Mr Average also ignores later papers from the Cuthberts, e.g. “Time to Move Beyond GERS: An Approach to Estimating Flows of Private Finance for the Scottish Economy”, or “GERS: Where now?”, and probably others without GERS in the title from Jim Cuthbert’s list:

    So Kevin Hague is at the usual Unionist game – selective quoting to try to show that someone from the other side, is on his side. How intellectually dishonest can you get?

    I would post this on his blog, but he bars people who disagree with him, preferring the Unionists in word of the moment: “Sycophants”.

  115. yesindyref2 says:

    My apologies, that should be Jim and Margaret Cuthbert’s list – hence the jamcuthbert!

  116. HandandShrimp says:

    I read Libby’s piece in the Groaniard about Nicola’s meeting with EU nationals. To be fair to Libby she didn’t deem the NI chap worthy of a mention.

  117. CameronB Brodie says:

    “‘Closer to a Liberation Movement’. Willie Clarke.”

    I’ve been laying into communism because I don’t think it will help Scotland liberate itself from colonial domination, not because I think it is evil (though it it has been a vehicle for evil). What sort of liberation could it provide anyway, a dictatorship of the proletariat? This is exactly how to stifle indigenous innovation and capital accumulation through “true development”. The clincher for me though is, how can space be made in communist ideology for the respect of human rights? History has shown us that communism is a very poor emancipating force.

    Arguments over ideology, statistics and economic projections do not liberate a people! Cultural identity and shared ethical values would be my weapons of choice.

    As I keep saying though, it all boils down to semiotics, worms…..and ethics.

    Here’s another link you could perhaps share with Mr. H and the BBC. Mind, “Self-consciousness achieves its satisfaction only in another self-consciousness”. – Hegel

  118. heedtracker says:

    BBC Newsnight ends with great UKOK praise for John Major, it’s him that got the lotto going and put the money into teamGB Olympic sports, which followed long sad story about toryboy’s bullying a toryboy to commit suicide, massive thing about watching teamGB in Rio and also long thing about toryboy’s spending mega millions on a London garden bridge. BBC Newsnight editors are ex rancid The Graun progressive liberals, or the English version. Its not BBC England toryboy Newsnight but it really is. Don’t have toryboy nightmares.

  119. Alex Clark says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Communism to Willie Clarke, I’m sure is not anywhere near the “communism” that was put into practise in the USSR and China.

    Willie Clarke likely believes that all resources are there to be shared equally. We are all human beings after all and there is only one Earth.

  120. yesindyref2 says:

    OT yet again
    There seems to be a lot being made of this from page 67 of the Scotland’s Future white paper:

    “The starting point for this analysis is the National Statistics publication, Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS). GERS is the authoritative publication on Scotland’s public finances.”

    Yet again from the Unionists, this is selective quoting, indeed the very next paragraph after that states this:

    “GERS provides estimates of the tax revenue generated in Scotland and the public spending undertaken for Scotland within the current constitutional framework (23)”.

    The Unionists are at it and instead of arguing with them we need to go to the source of their out of context quotes, and quote the source back at them.

  121. Still Positive. says:

    Posted this on another pro-yes page earlier.

    SG should say that they will not use oil revenue for day-to-day expenditure but instead use x % as an oil fund and y% as a fund for future pensions – the Danish model comes to mind from 2014. The rest should be used to make Scottish pensions one of the best in Europe rather than one of the worst.

  122. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 21:41,

    Even sadder, the proud HeraldScotland‘s poor choice of headline didn’t make that UK context at all obvious. So I’m not sure what their aim was. A subtle attempt to get over to their residual PSB readers how xenophobic the English are getting about the Scots now as well? Or something else entirely?

    Was at a bit of a loose end later on, so watched both Reporting Scotland and Scotland Tonight. Both featured the drugs issue as their leading item (the Beeb at some length) but nary a mention of Nicola on RS. So does their “whatever you do, don’t mention Scotland” policy even extend to their wee North British branch office now?!

    STV on the other hand did find the time to give Nicola’s Q&A decent coverage and planted a fair question mark over the current stasis down in London.

    The NI anti-indy zealot got a passing mention, but not approvingly. These people were conspicuous by their self-imposed omerta during the indyref, but we could do with a few more like him speaking out now. Every time one of them does, they win more votes for indy.

  123. Dr Jim says:

    I am a Cancer according to Neil Oliver, I am also a Virus, an extremist, a Cult follower, a Natzi, an Ultra….I’m likely to be lazy, probably a sponger on benefits and obviously not educated

    Isn’t it funny all the folk who complain about Yes voters as vile Cybernats have more abusive names for us than we have for them yet they complain the loudest when they have no argument under pressure of facts and turn to the Media to help them get thae Nats telt

    Scotland tonight informed us there’ll be no referendum anytime soon as well, so a direct line to the First Ministers brain there, aren’t the media great and knowledgeable to be able to predict the future and be phychic too

    Us Nats fully understand we have no rights to opinions in our own country and no rights to democracy in any shape or form and we should respect the wishes of those who are better than us and wiser and can of course shout louder

    So I’ll just offer my sincere apologies now to all Unionist NO voters for daring to answer back when I’ve clearly been told not to on a daily if not hourly basis by the entire Kingdom of Yoon and I’ll never again lift my head to eyeball my betters and just say

    I knows ma place Massa an I is sorry fo any oaffence

    At least if we were black we could have them done for racism unless Brexit goes through and we’ll be like America they’ll just do us in on the streets and say it was our fault because of the diseases we carry

    Freakin tiresome innit, the state of them

  124. Taranaich says:

    You all know me. I don’t swear.

    “Once the population figure out how much Scotland is in debt – they never tell you much about that, the newspapers.” – Dangerous Donald


  125. Cherry says:


    I don’t swear much either but….

    FUCKING TWAT!?! Fixed that for you! You’re welcome 😉

  126. Iain More says:


    Another reason why the Council Elections are important and it is important that there is a massive SNP vote in those Elections.

    I don’t expect the Northern Scot or the P&J and I certainly don’t expect the BBC or Yoon TV Aberdeen to report on this honestly if at all.

  127. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Adam Curtis
    What about a documentary series on The Century of the Other?

    Frankly, I see the 20th century as having been the century of befuddled ideological dogma and entrenched colonial bigotry. What about the other?

    When a people share a common oppression, certain kinds of skills and defenses are developed. And if you survive you survive because those skills and defenses have worked….There was a whole powerful world of….communication and contact between people that was absolutely essential and that was what you had to learn to decipher and use….You have to get it for yourself…it is a very difficult way to live, but it also has served me. – Audre Lorde

    Roland Barthes Is a De-Colonial Theorist (pp. 81)
    I HAVE referred to differential consciousness and social movement as “mobile,” “flexible”, “diasporic,” “schizophrenic”, “nomad,” but it must be realized that these mobilities align around a field of force (aside from motion itself) that drives, inspires, and focuses them. This force is the methodology of the oppressed. Differential oppositional movement can be thought of as a process through which the practices and procedures of the methodology of the oppressed are enacted. Conversely, this methodology is best thought of as comprised of techniques for moving energy — or
    better, as oppositional technologies of power: both “inner” or psychic technologies, and “outer” technologies of social praxis…..

  128. Jam says:

    “McAveety’s deputy had the ideal face for playing the role of a treacherous underling in a Shakespeare play”


  129. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    There were three things that particularly struck me from the Charlie Hebdo coverage.

    Firstly, I especially liked Willie Clarke’s comparison with Iceland. (I’m sure there are several other small countries that would also serve well for such comparison.) Far more convincing for ordinary people than footering with GERS, which even if it were perfect (which it is far from being), it’s only useful purpose is as a measure of how badly we have been served by the UK.

    Secondly, a Czech student (Ph.D., no less!) who thinks that voting for indy will disenfranchise her in the future, because current UK electoral rules disenfranchise her! Duh. We don’t know what iScotland’s voting regs might be in detail, but on past history she would likely actually win a national vote! I don’t know if Nicola was able to reassure people like her at the Q&A, but it’s important that there be no misunderstanding among EU residents that their lot will be far more secure and integrated in an iScotland.

    Lastly, one of Paul McNamee’s comments:

    There’s still at the back of some minds the realisation that independence could be financially really damaging, it could take a generation to fix. But the difficulty with this is that if you hold these kind of views, you are seen as anti-Scottish and pro-Westminster. [My italics.]

    Well, it’s true there are Scots, typically Labourites, who seem to have a very deep-seated fear of the ability of their own people to run their own affairs well. (And one has the sneaking suspicion that this opinion is one that the speaker shares.) A realisation? (Despite the weasel-worded “could”.) That definite? Despite all the historical evidence of how the Scots have done very well – for others!

    It’s now well-recognised that the previous yes campaign was too uncritically upbeat and not sufficiently realistic about the likely initial difficulties post-independence. That’s one thing, but this Labourite fear, almost amounting to a phobia, is something else again. Another person, at a recent social event, exclaimed within earshot of my mrs, that he “didn’t want to live in a third world country”. This isn’t real.

    I believe it partly arises from the current crisis within the left: moderates afraid of an (exaggerated) association of the far left with independence. Unfortunately, the more a few unwise zealots (of all parties) pronounce on their favourite hobbyhorses du jour, the more these others will likely dig in.

    However I fear the problem runs much deeper than that. Possibly a feeling of thwarted self-entitlement that, following a series of electoral failures, has morphed into a toxic “dog-in-manger” mentality that prefers to believe (wish, even) that a Scotland run by someone (anyone) else will inevitably fail.

    I really wish we understood this debilitating negative mentality much better. It is a serious obstacle to progress, and we surely need to understand it in order to counter it far more effectively.

  130. defo says:

    Robert J
    “I really wish we understood this debilitating negative mentality…”

    300 years of being sold dodgy stories. And Argentina 1978. 🙁

    Fab article. Lots to ponder.

  131. K1 says:

    ‘Another person, at a recent social event, exclaimed within earshot of my mrs, that he “didn’t want to live in a third world country”. This isn’t real.’

    Don’t you think these expressions are just literally pasted into the brains of those who read all the rags and believe the ‘news’ where they are…cause this is not ‘normal’ everyday usage of language?

    It seems to me these papers/tv news and the online trolls, are literally the ‘go to’ place for yoonyinism…the ‘mentality’ is being fed daily by our broadsheets and broadcasters.

    Leading up tae the referendum my mother started using the term ‘silent majority’…in relation to the No vote succeeding. Straight oot the No side’s handbook of propaganda.

    The thing we have to understand is that these fucking newspapers and the BBC especially, create the narrative, we are wrestling with them daily. It’s only possible to alter that narrative when we reduce the volume of the mainstream rants raining down on people and generating ‘fear’. We all have to make constant efforts to debunk, disillusion and debrief those who have not completely drunk the ‘koolaid’.

    As well as switching off the BBC, binning the papers and disseminating articles and other ‘sound’ information such as Wings et al.

    I don’t think it’s ‘rocket science’. A bunch of shystering bastards have a huge investment in the current ‘arrangement’. We disagree heartily, and they make out we are the bastards. Because they have been the ‘authority’ cause ‘it’s in the paper or it said on the news’, for so long, it’s difficult to shift that ‘acceptance’ of a fabricated ‘status quo’.

    But…we’ve done remarkably well so far. Most of the ‘noise’ is emanating from a handful of journalist, commentators and the amplification of their pish through the medium of tv and papers (online too). We have to ‘jam’ the signal. Which I think is happening more and more.

    We are getting there. Over, yes ‘over’ half the population of Scotland is Yes. That’s a fucking miracle right there!

  132. CameronB Brodie says:

    “I really wish we understood this debilitating negative mentality much better. It is a serious obstacle to progress, and we surely need to understand it in order to counter it far more effectively.” – Robert J. Sutherland

    The seductive danger of the third form of perception is that it is the mode encouraged in any consciousness that longs for “normality,” that is, which
    longs for the reality of dominant, legitimated, and middle-class status. – Roland Barthes

    (from Methodology of the Oppressed link above)

  133. CameronB Brodie says:

    Soz. This third form of perception consumes ideology along with the cultural artifacts and alibis contained therein, as facts of nature and so is unquestioning of the dominant status quo.

  134. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. In this case, the dominant ideology of UKOKness and legitimated Britishness depends on the perception that England is glorious and Scotland is shite. This message has been battered into us for the last three centuries. It’s a feckin wonder we can function at all as a society, given we are so feckin genetically hopeless.

  135. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve just watches an adult seagull circle a rooftop whilst calling out to a couple of fledglings below. They responded by taking what looked to be their first flights. Quite vile frankly.

  136. CamernoB Brodie says:

    For all those that can’t be arsed with clicking links, “Methodology of the Oppressed” is a guide to changing perceptions in such a way that empties ideology of all power and reshapes the consciousness so as to enable the perception of reality as is, not how it is revealed to us from above (eg. through the BBC). Put simply, a guide to emancipation through the techniques of semiotic deconstruction. Quite straight forwards frankly.

    P.S. I suggest you start with a primer. 🙂

  137. CameronB Brodie says:

    “It’s a feckin wonder we can function at all as a society, given we are so feckin genetically hopeless.”

    It’s no wonder that Scotland’s ‘middle-class’ are so hopelessly befuddled by a mythology of British greatness.

  138. Breeks says:

    Had another chuckle at the “nice old man who nobody could understand”.

    That chimed with me from my time down in England, meeting foreign folks who had developed their English language surprisingly well and acclimatised to English accents and dialect, then you could see the clouds rolling in as they hear something said in Scots.

    Funny thing now is, I care less about how I sound to them, but I’d give my right arm to speak even two or three foreign languages like a native. It as always struck me as kind of rude as a nation that so many of us don’t. I really enjoyed Angus Robertson speaking fluent German on TV, even though I never understood a word. It feels like he is somehow double the person and I “good” envy that.

    I know I’d have felt terrific, and one up on my English pals, if I’d been able to chatter away in German to my German friend once I was aware she struggled with her Scots.

    We should get our kids speaking fluently with multiple languages at primary school, and get them mixing with foreign speaking kids too. There would be no down side.

  139. CameronB Brodie says:

    Would you have seen yourself aligned with an African-American femanist and civil rights activist? 🙂

    “the master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.” – Audre Lorde

  140. Phronesis says:


    More political satire s’il vous plait it’s a been around for centuries-since Chaucer, Rebelais, Shakespeare writing their scathing observations of the powerful. In the modern era Spitting Image, Les Guignols, Yes Minister, Redacted Tonight.

    It would be very pleasing to have a programme along similar lines within the context of Scottish politics. The infotainment element of UKOK politics and its internecine, intransigent discourse of futility on all things Indy would be rich pickings for the satirical mind and to confront the political dissembling and misinformation.

    Ceci tuera cela

  141. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 17 August, 2016 at 10:50 pm:

    “I’ve been laying into communism because I don’t think it will help Scotland liberate itself from colonial domination, not because I think it is evil (though it it has been a vehicle for evil).”

    Nah! CameronB, what you have been laying into is certain political movements that claim to be communist. There are great differences between actual communism and such as the USSR who claim to be communist. You really should know better to take any particular political party’s self definition as true.

    After all history shows that the party calling itself, “NAZI”, (those letters stood for, “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” certainly did not describe what the NAZI party actually was.

    The same goes for the USSR or Chinese versions of Communism or ever the UK Labour Party that I believe you often refer to as, “The Red Tories”.

    To put it plainly, political parties do not often do what it says on their tins.

  142. Sassenach says:

    Strange, isn’t it that the ‘Record, Mail, Express, Sun’ all seem to be front paging the police overtime story, this morning – you might even suspect some collusion?

    But I think it’s just a big coincidence!!!!

  143. Grouse Beater says:

    Sutherland: “It’s now well-recognised that the previous yes campaign was too uncritically upbeat and not sufficiently realistic about the likely initial difficulties post-independence.”

    Absolute bollocks.

    The unionist dirge: you Scots went into the referendum badly prepared and naïve.

    Over seventy years of preparation; 650 well research pages demonstrating many social structures are already in place; comprehensive debates and papers on what civil rights will be improved immediately and what will come gradually; the assuaging of business fears; leading Nobel laureate economists supporting an economic plan for the short to middle term, and countless discussions about challenges, et cetera.

    The notion that a mass movement should enter the fray in a downbeat mood is risible.

  144. Sunniva says:

    I agree with Robert Sutherland and others that the major obstacle now, with persistent No voters is the BELIEF, rock-solid, that it is a FACT that Scotland lacks the financial resources to be a functioning independent state. Recently I was speaking to someone who stated that she ‘loved Scotland too much to ever vote for independence’. Even abroad, amongst foreigners, this meme has gained traction. I was asked this summer, on holiday, would Scotland have sufficient econmic means to survive as an independent country?

    This suggests that countering all the lies about our true wealth is what we need to concentrate on.

  145. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Peffers
    I stand corrected Robert. 😉

  146. Grouse Beater says:

    Gamancennelath: ““Liberation movement” seems an very accurate description of what we are about.”

    I’d second that; it’s a fair description once you realise and acknowledge Scotland is asking to enjoy similar civil rights as England, and the right to take its place in the political world internationally.

  147. call me dave says:

    Listened to Garry on radio shortbread trying to turn the generally good news on building new social housing into an SNP bad story.

    “50,000 it’s not enough”… “You’ve changed the definition of social housing”… “The waiting list is so high”

    Any moderately good news is something with which Auntie will not tolerate!

    “Well the last administration only build 6 houses for social rent Garry” says SNP’s Kevin Stewart.

    Garry never flinched although all of Scotland’s listeners must have laughed!

    Morning all, a day off for me today. 🙂

  148. Grouse Beater says:

    Sunniva: “I agree with Robert Sutherland and others that the major obstacle now, with persistent No voters is the BELIEF that Scotland lacks the financial resources to be a functioning independent state”

    Sutherland is skilled at stating the obvious. However, a poverty economy has been the unionist gibe for over three hundred years! (300) You’re only making the discovery now? It is a brazen lie but one with enough time to become the conventional wisdom.

    It is that way because we agreed to send all we earn to London, and London sends us an annual allowance. That’s how you keep a nation insolvent.

    The trick is to count what we earn now and can earn when self-governed, not what we get from London, money getting less each year as a method of political suppression.

  149. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 18 August, 2016 at 4:46 am:

    ” … P.S. In this case, the dominant ideology of UKOKness and legitimated Britishness depends on the perception that England is glorious and Scotland is shite.”

    I first realised how ludicrous this concept really was way back in the early 1950s. I had begun an apprenticeship in HM Dockyard Rosyth and thus not only worked among a then predominantly English managed workforce but among Royal Navy persons.

    It struck me as really hilarious while listening to two RN ratings speaking together and berating the Scots as being unable to speak English properly. One of these RN Jack Tars was a Cockney and the other a very broad speaking, “Westo”, (English West Country).

    The laughable situation of a Cockney and Westo, (each speaking their own particular brand of the English language), being mutually understood by the other but complaining that Scots couldn’t speak English properly seemed to have flown way over their wee pointy heads.

    I’m sure we have all come across the English complaints when a Scottish drama is aired on, “National”, TV that they should be provided with sub-titles yet not a word with English accents from Devon, Newcastle or other English regional areas.

    Just how can they manage to understand the diverse English regional dialects while making fun of Scottish, Welsh and Irish accents without a shred of understanding how idiotic that makes them seem defies all logic.

    Thing is that the Scottish Cringers also not only feel inferior because of it but actively join in with the denigration of all things un-English. And make no mistakes about it – it is English and not British that we are talking about.

    Mind you the same kind of thing is ingrained in the English psyche. The Londoner with a Cockney accent, for example, will poke fun at the rural Englanders and other large English city accented speakers.

  150. Kevin Evans says:

    I enjoy reading things like this – it lets me know our plight for independence is on the world stage and not insular.

  151. galamcennalath says:

    Sunniva says:

    “I agree with Robert Sutherland and others that the major obstacle now, with persistent No voters is the BELIEF, rock-solid, that it is a FACT that Scotland lacks the financial resources to be a functioning independent state.”

    Yes, also agreed. Financially driven No voters need to be persuaded that Indy is a better ‘deal’ for their personal circumstances than downward spiralling isolationist post Brexit UK.

    A Brexit damaged UK is probably the best opportunity we will get.

    There will always be 20-25% blood and soil Brits who will be very hard to convert. No voters making their decisions based on what is financial best for them, can be converted.

  152. Proud Cybernat says:

    ‘Swinging Free’

    It would be a great step forward towards this end if some in this country would first grow a pair.

    How can anyone of right mind be so utterly afraid of their own liberation?

  153. Grouse Beater says:

    Robert Peffers: “It struck me as really hilarious while listening to two RN ratings speaking together and berating the Scots as being unable to speak English properly.”

    The subject of my next article in iScot.

    Nice anecdote, Robert. Reminds how domination covers all aspects of our culture, not only acceptance of our paper currency.

  154. CameronB Brodie says:

    Forget blood and soil BritNats. The de-programing of cult members is a laborious and technically demanding task. Best focus on those that do not live in an ethnocentric world.

  155. heedtracker says:

    Nice anecdote, Robert. Reminds how domination covers all aspects of our culture, not only acceptance of our paper currency.

    One of the fun things about being a Scot, approaching any group of English people and watching them all trying to work out what class you are and then how they should behave. Scotland and England are not the same.

  156. Fireproofjim says:

    Grouse beater @ 08.50
    Re the Unionist jibes of 300 years of dependency and poverty for Scotland, my riposte is always – “Well, if 300 years of Union has left peaceful, democratic and well educated Scotland in this dire state, which you say it has, then it is surely time for a change.”
    I find that it is an argument which is difficult to refute.

  157. heedtracker says:

    Do you need any more mass coverage PR JK?

    Great British golden goose. Honk.

  158. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Robert Peffers and Grouse Beater

    I too came across the phenomenon of what I would call non-received pronunciation,when my work moved me to West Yorkshire in the 1970s.

    One particular local, when I first arrived, would always insist he could not understand a word he said. After two or three occasions of this, I fought back, and when he started, I, like him, would say: “Pardon, slow down, I didn’t get that”. Amazingly, after a couple of uses of this ploy, he understood every word I said.

  159. Stoker says:

    Possibly just witnessed one of the most powerful leaflet possibilities i’ve ever come across. This would work from so many different angles. Hope the link works – taken from WOS twitter:

  160. Breeks says:

    Not at all sure I’d have the courage Cameron B, and that’s the honest answer, but I’m very glad people like Audre Lorde exist. But if the point you’re making is I’m a sucker for an underdog, any underdog, then that wouldn’t be correct. Some things are simply right, and some things are just wrong. It really is that simple.

    For example I don’t especially like Andy Murray being called English, but that’s merely bad journalism. It’s the same bad journalism as getting the date wrong in an obituary or misspelling the deceased’s name. It’s sloppy, disrespectful, but scarcely a hanging offence. But there is a clear line between that, and the seditious propaganda which seeks wilfully to undermine Scotland’s confidence and growth as a Nation and subvert our independence. These are simply not the same issues, in fact there is a gaping chasm between them.

    Where I find the going difficult is where people get agitated and hot under the collar about the stuff which doesn’t matter, but are deaf, dumb, and blind to the important issues that would make a real difference. I’d rather we were more thick skinned about the nonsense, but thoroughly ruthless and uncompromising about the real grievances. Slag us off if you must and cannot help yourself, be as cheeky and disrespectful as you like, but actually step on Scotland’s toes and rest assured you will be clobbered by a ton of bricks. Just doesn’t happen in this Scotland. We gulp down our propaganda and cry out for more.

    Not to pour petrol on yesterday’s embers, but take the spat about sovereignty. For the life of me, I don’t understand how ardent nationalists in the middle of an extended constitutional debate do not properly understand what sovereignty actually is and why it is so important. Sovereignty is the only domino you need to topple for every other domino to fall into place. Frankly we seem rather cavalier about our sovereignty, and that’s a grave error of judgement for which we have nobody but ourselves to blame.

    Take currency, yet again… Why fret about keeping the pound, or having a currency union, or joining the ERM? Of course these matters are important, but they are ephemeral issues of policy and the prevailing circumstances change. What makes sense today might seem like madness tomorrow. But my point is it is NOT a constitutional issue. The constitutional issue is having the power to choose your currency; being sovereign; the ultimate arbiter of our own affairs, and that is constant, never changing, and an awareness should never leave us. Sovereignty is superior to democracy, because you cannot vote to be rid of sovereignty, and democracy alone is powerless unless backed up by the sovereignty required to empower the choice which democracy has delivered.

    Keep it simple stupid. Get our heads around sovereignty, (and get it right), and EVERYTHING else falls into place.

    But hey, let’s work ourselves into a lather about what Kez Dugdale’s thought is for today, or whether the Tories have said anything nasty about us in the last 24 hours. That’s 24 hours less oil we have while Westminster enjoys the illegitimate fudge which was built upon the fundamental abuse of Scotland’s popular sovereignty.

  161. heedtracker says:

    I too came across the phenomenon of what I would call non-received pronunciation,when my work moved me to West Yorkshire in the 1970s.

    Yorkshire does seem to have a density of Britnat zoomers. One thing what does shiver English timbers is saying out loud, I cant bear English RP accents, and its even worse when they’re trying to use it to talk and be posh. Without BBC PR, they wont allow one on their national broadcast network, noone will understand you, you see, sort of shite. One of the most grotesque examples of the great English class and accent mashups was ofcourse, St Margaret Thatcher. If you were around in her days of ascendancy to UKOK greatness, she was fucking hilarious to listen to, a demented mass up of the queen and the English midlands.

    Is this aspiration, accent and class phenomena unique to England land, it sure is.

  162. Grouse Beater says:

    Fireproofjim: “It is surely time for a change. I find that an argument difficult to refute.”


    And of course unionists are stumped for an answer to the obvious question they get back – if so poor, why ‘subsidise us’ to your detriment?

    It’s a more pertinent question ever since they dumped Europe because they were “paying the EU too much money.”

  163. Alan Gerrish says:

    Robert J. Sutherland at 02.20.

    Another person, at a recent social event, exclaimed within earshot of my mrs, that he “didn’t want to live in a third world country”.

    Surely, in many ways, he’s already living in one?
    When I return to Scotland from any other northern European country, I always remark to friends it’s like coming back to a third world country, comparing infrastructure, social/economic/democratic inequality. And of course we have the charity shops and food banks just to emphasise the difference. I have felt this for many years now, and saddened to say it is getting worse.

  164. Grouse Beater says:

    Alan Gerrish: “At a recent social event, exclaimed within earshot of my mrs, that he “didn’t want to live in a third world country”.

    I presume he was referring to England.

  165. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ronnie , Page Not Found – obviously the Herald has removed the article.

  166. ronnie anderson says:

    Could somebody correct my link at 10.25 re Herald article Thanks.

  167. Les Wilson says:

    Having watched Nicola’s EU debate, there were a few plants in there which the SG cleverly avoided, so the must be known yoon faces. Nicola was solid as a rock as usual,and the rest of the cabinet all came across as very knowledgeable for where we now are.
    All very well done. Loved the very passionate Italian lady who spoke from the heart.

    The olympics, I did not watch much at all, however late at night I would watch the press reviews to get the Yoons take on things.
    It seems the words “Scottish or Scot” Were banished from all of these inc from those talking of the reviews. We are all in the British/ English team you see.

    Guess they are following a previous Labour doctrine of “do not mention the word Scotland ”
    Again, all part of the propaganda machine against Scotland.

  168. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    “Margaret Thatcher. If you were around in her days of ascendancy to UKOK greatness, she was fucking hilarious to listen to, a demented mass up of the queen and the English midlands.”

    Yes, definitely. RP sounds pathetic, a contrived attempt to sound superior using a made up accent. So much better to hear proper regional English accents spoken clearly – all perfectly understandable when standard grammar and vocabulary is used.

    However, what sounds even worse is a ‘work in progress’ semi RP like Thatcher had as she tried to reinvent herself. An insecure soul trying to make themselves sound fancy – tells much about the underlying personality.

  169. CameronB Brodie says:

    It was a simple question without added complexity or pre-conceptions. 🙂

  170. Valerie says:

    Fascinating piece in today’s Guardian about Caroline Elkins who wrote Britain’s Gulag about the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya, and was eventually used to bring legal action against the British gov’t.

  171. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Dorothy Devine Thanks Dorothy ,though it was my mistook in copy & paste.

    Its about Julie Webster (maryhill foodbank) being charged with fraud ( £4000 ) its been broadcast on radio Clyde olso.

  172. brewsed says:

    Talking about accents, my anecdote goes as follows:

    Many years ago on a training course in Reading among us was someone from East Kilbride and someone else from east London and, somehow I ended up translating between the two. When the one from East Kilbride asked, via the translator, why the one from east London did not understand what was being said, the response was, ‘Because you have an accent’. I was somewhat floored when the reply of ‘But you have one as well’ was responded with, ‘Oh! No I aint’.

  173. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    18 August, 2016 at 11:25 am
    heedtracker says:

    Technically English RP is one of the greatest frauds our imperial master baiters have got away with. Much of it stems from colonial rule though. Its such an establish shyst and works on some many colossal fraudster ways, its hard to even begin to get grips with. The British Army officer training at Sandhurst used to have a 2 week RP training course, probably still does, don’t you know.

    Greatest fraudsters and RP speakers of our time, indeed any era is the City of London, the how and why Crash Gordon, Lord Flipper and co threw hundreds of billions at them all, instead of jailing them. Part of St Snatcher Thatcher’s City boom/fraud on us was that, City traders are actually Cockney barrow boys, with a genius to trade in her de-reged 80’s Stock Exchange. But it pops up in odd little ways too. Holywood seems to love having RP speakers in fantasy roles as butlers to their all American heroes for example. Or when Holywood needs a bad guy, the use a German English accent, when they need a totally evil monster, its usually with that RP accent. History Channel’s currently running so so Bertie Wooster repeats that also has fun with 1930’s RP.

    Its all about perception, perpetrated and enforced by the great cultural propaganda power house of our age the BBC. Or, why do car makers, tin cans with wheels, always have beautiful models draped over their latest cars? Why are we brainwashed to look up to and trust the RP speaker and look down on the none RP?

    Because you’re British:D

  174. call me dave says:

    Here is that foodbank story in the Herald.

  175. Chic McGregor says:

    Alan Gerrish

    You are right, in many ways the UK is like a third world country.

    Recently back from Finland where the difference was stark. No homeless people, no druggies walking about, no beggars, social housing in pleasant surroundings and built to a higher standard than many private estates here.

    The NHS has until recently, improved, but only because EU politicians in the 90’s described it as being third world level. At that time there were serious discussions in the EU on the need to take action on the UK’s health service on humanitarian grounds. All unreported in the BMSM.

    Many procedures at that time, screening, scans, by-passes etc. were only at about a quarter of the EU average pro rata level as was the prescription of life preserving drugs for blood pressure control and the like.

    The investment in the NHS by Blair and Brown which just about brought the UK up to a minimal EU standard was completely contrary to the neoliberal nature of Blair and was driven more by ultimatum than altruism.

    It is a testament to the propaganda power of the BMSM that throughout that period and even today they have managed to inculcate the notion that the NHS is the best in the world into the UK psyche.

    Pensions and welfare benefits are also among the lowest in the EU.

    Foodbank level in the UK has been an object of condemnation by the UN.

    And things are not set to improve anytime soon, quite the contrary, free to not comply with EU standards or human rights standards as enshrined in the ECHR heaven knows where the Tories or possibly even a resurrected UKIP will take us in the coming years.

    It may be slightly selfish, but Scotland does have the option of getting out, becoming independent and eventually attaining European standards although it will take a little time of course.

    Regarding England, I think the grip of self-serving elitists on government and media is too tight for any foreseeable improvement there. When change does eventually come there I think it likely that it will be more in the form of a ‘Spring’ event than a ‘democratic’ process, because of the complete control the elitists have on the media.

  176. carjamtic says:

    Funtime Friday

    Why our perception of time should follow a logarithmic scale (yawn).
    The idea is,that we perceive a period of time as the proportion of time,that we have already lived through.

    To a two-year-old,a year is half of their life (which is why it seems such an extraordinary long period to wait between birthdays,when you are young).
    To a ten-year-old,a year is only 10% of their life (making for a slightly more tolerable wait) and to twenty-year-old it is only 5%.

    On the logarithmic scale,for a twenty-year-old to experience the same ‘proportional’ increase in age to that a two-year-old experiences between birthday’s,they would have to wait until they turned thirty.
    Given that point of view,it is not surprising that the time appears to accelerate as we grow older.

    We commonly think of lives in terms of decades – our 20s,our 30s and so on,which suggests an equal weight to each period.
    However on the logarithmic scale,we perceive different periods of time with the same length.
    The following differences in age would be perceived the same under this theory,
    (5-10),(10-20),(20-40) and (40-80).

    Considering that most general elections in the uk and usa are held every 4-5 years (giving voters the democratic opportunity to hold politicians to account),taking the contents of the Wee Black Book into account and the Major material changes in circumstances since 2014,it would seem perfectly reasonable to apply some maths to the Indyref2 question.

    In an attempt to work out when Indyref2 will take place,a simple square rooting of the mean average between previous referendums in Scotland gives us 4.22 years,this ties in nicely with ‘real world’ election cycles.

    And if you do that the date of Indyref2 ‘could’ be….drum roll please….29/11/2018…
    Don’t all rush to the bookies at once,mind,it just for fun and anyway I have hoovered up all the best odds already (not).

    nod to Dr Christian Yates University of (cough) Bath and The Conversation

    Tick Tock

  177. Grouse Beater says:

    Heedtracker: “Margaret Thatcher. If you were around in her days of ascendancy to UKOK greatness, she was fucking hilarious to listen to, a demented mass up of the queen and the English midlands.”

    Amen to that.

    Mentioned the loony lady (and she was most definitely batty – later with Alzheimer’s) in the last comment on this essay:

  178. CameronB Brodie says:

    Yorkshire isn’t called “God’s Own County” without reason. Submission to an Anglican God underpins BriNat epistemology.

  179. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. You do the math.

  180. K1 says:

    Ronnie, this is it…archived.

    Is this a stitch up Ronnie?

  181. galamcennalath says:

    Chic McGregor says:

    “in many ways the UK is like a third world country.”

    I once heard it said that ‘the United States is the world’s richest third world country’.

    This, I believe is accurate and could now be applied to UKOK.

    The measure of a country should be how well its bottom 20% are faring! Not, who well are the top 20% doing.

    Inequality, compared to similar western countries, is the UKOK’s biggest failing. And, it should be noted far and wide, equality took a big nose dive under New Labour.

  182. Craig P says:

    Re: Margaret Thatcher’s pretentions – she was Hyacinth Bucket with nukes.

  183. Valerie says:


    Interesting date, but seems a long time off to this 50+ :-/


    Good comment, and that’s the tip of the iceberg. As has been said, we must be the poorest oil producing country in the world.

    I don’t think wanting Independence is selfish, I think it’s aspirational and democratic.

    I’ve asked myself, as someone with no children/dependents why I’m invested in wanting Indy. It’s about bringing those decisions, for better or worse to Scottish people. It’s about shaking off the oppression of WM, getting out of wars, Trident. Wanting Scotland to do better for Scots.

    I don’t see it as selfish, but for the greater good.

  184. Socrates MacSporran says:

    brewsed @ 11.53am

    You had it easy mate. I once had to interpret between a couple of truckers, one from the Broch, the other a Scouser, not easy.

    Another time, while working on the M25, one of the locally-recruited electricians, was particularly insistent that three of us should accompany him to a riverside pub.

    At six-foot one and 17 stones, I was the smallest of what I soon worked-out was his security detail. The other two were a six-foot six inch “Paddy” and an equally tall Scot, who sported the full Billy Connolly beard, and shoulder-length flaming red hair.

    When we hit the pub, the posse of locals who were after our mate’s head surrounded our car, intent on GBH. Exit big Arnold, (the flame-haired Scot), who enquired in his best Glesca accent as to what was aerating the locals.

    I then had to get out and inform the locals: “Whit the F is youse efter”, translated as: “Excuse me, do you gentlemen have a problem”.

    I translated; “Gonnae no dae that”, as – “My friend suggests you should perhaps vacate the car park”, and so-forth.

    Then Paddy (Liam actually) got out and asked: “What’s the craic?”, at which point the Londoners decided they had urgent business elsewhere.

    A case of three nations divided by a common language.

  185. heedtracker says:

    UKOK satire or UKOK news?


    “Human rights watchdog calls for urgent action on Britain’s ‘deep-rooted’ inequality
    Equality and Human Rights Commission warns UK risks greater social division and racial tensions from ‘systemic unfairness’


    “David Isaac, the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said that for many ethnic minority groups – especially young black people – life had got worse in a number of areas over the past five years.”

    although, this is the UKOK zone afterall

    “Isaac, a City lawyer and former chair of the the LGBT rights charity Stonewall, was appointed to chair the equalities watchdog by the government in April.

    His appointment attracted opposition from some MPs over fears that as a £500,000 a year partner in Pinsent Masons he would face potential conflicts of interest because the law firm carried out significant amounts of work for the government.”

    Good old rancid The Graun style satire in action.

  186. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ronnie , the clever folk on here have found it – it would be interesting to hear your take on it.

  187. Sunniva says:

    I couldn’t actually find a link to this on Charlie Hebdo’s website. Does anybody have it?

  188. ScottieDog says:

    Yes read the piece about the British gulags. Interesting and not surprising .

  189. call me dave says:

    Edinburgh trams inquiry could lead to criminal prosecutions, says investigation chair.

    Schurley schome coincidence then.

    Edinburgh council leader Andrew Burns to stand down

  190. Schrödinger's Dug says:



    N°1254 édition du 3 AUG. 2016

    its a paywall

  191. K1 says:

    Valerie, just read that piece in the guardian, ‘fascinating’ indeed. What strikes me near the end is the pomposity of those who reject Elkins view that this ‘alters’ the fundamental narrative’s of those past historians who have in essence ‘covered up’ the truth. Not only regarding Kenya but all the colonies who suffered the British ‘boot’ when they rose up against their ‘masters’.

    If our cause was at our current stage just 40/50 years ago, I am utterly convinced without the technologies that we have now in terms of communicating with each other, we too would have been treated exactly the same. The torturing, raping, murdering and dehumanising ‘dilution’ processes that were employed expose the ‘genocidal’ inclination that the BE have always utilised to ‘quell’ peoples’, would be underway now in our country.

    We of course have been utterly colonised in a different way, in the ‘modern’ context our culture apparently is subsumed by the all encompassing ‘Britishness’ of our status within these isles. They used the same brutal techniques on the Scots centuries before, they took our lands, killed our people and moved their people into the ‘high’ positions in our society. In the present day the inexhaustible levels of ‘othering’ from our media class evidence the truth that we are perceived as ‘enemy’ number 1 and must be ‘quelled’ by all and any means.

    The fact that we share the same landmass more than anything is the only thing that prevented them turning Scotland into a ‘gulag’. That would have been too ’embarrassing’ for those old Etonian’s to rationalise away whilst claiming themselves the arch ‘civilisation’ on the planet.

    We are left with the remnants of our former and real ‘colonisation’ in oor heids, having overcome our inner gulag we now seek to free others from their ‘locked in’ view.

    I often think the No side who got frightened by the fear mongering understand this only too well themselves…it’s just that they have completely as Cameron B would say, fundamentally ‘identified’ with the ethnocentric doctrine of “Brtishishness’: they hate ‘who’ they are and ‘where’ they come from, ergo the cringe. 😉

  192. heedtracker says:

    Even more UKOK satire, why rancid The Graun, you’re spoiling us.

    “The BBC is actively considering how it should serve audiences in Scotland and the other devolved nations with its news and whether any changes in output are needed to achieve a service that meets audience expectations. The trust awaits the outcome of this work later this year.”

    Now we’re devolved and Nations? from same crew that monsters everything and anything remotely devolved. Well not just monster, misreport, misinform, black out, deceive, lie, repeatedly lie…

  193. Valerie says:

    Fair play to Sky news for reporting from the sunny Ithaca in Greece, with the 100m yacht, Lionheart, in the background.

    Green hiding aboard his superyacht that covers a football pitch, and has 40 staff.

    The greedy little balloon grabbed at the camera when they tried to question him.

    Shameful and obscene.

  194. K1 says:

    We must fund this, looks good and Bonne Prince Bob is at the heart of it 🙂–2#/

    ‘Help the creators of ‘Jim Murphy – Saviour of the Union’ lay into their next targets! From a future time, when Jeremy Corbyn is revered as Britains greatest ever statesman, and by examining the headlines, newsreels & artworks from the past, Bonnie Prince Bob will tell the true story of a failed neoliberal coup that sought to snatch liberty from the working people of England & Wales, in order to maintain a miserable status quo that served only an amoral, self-serving and media backed elite.’

  195. Connor McEwen says:

    Need new reading glasses and a magnifying glass

  196. heedtracker says:

    Shameful and obscene.

    Gangster. Any where else and he’d be in the dock. As should that Sports Direct bundle of delights.

  197. Dr Jim says:

    Scottish product brand protection within the EU

    I couldn’t find an answer to this question from the usual Interwebby sources so I asked Stu in an email if he could find the answer

    This morning Stu replied that our Scottish Brand protection would be lost after Brexit

    Now I’m thinking the moany faced farmers and Scottish fishermen might want to think again as to what their product brands means to them or the Harris Tweed industry when these brands are copied and undersold by anybody in America or China or Indonesia or……..

    I guess I’d better start looking up Amazon for a nice new Harris Tweed outfit made in Hong Kong
    Maybe it’s not a worry for them though, I’m sure they’re ready to take China and other countries to court, Ha!

    That was an ironic laugh, not pleasure

  198. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think you might be overlooking the fact that England’s domination of Scotland is a ‘non-racialised’ form of colonial domination. There is also a high degree of hybridisation and substitution between Scottish and English culture and demographics. Lots of ‘misogination’ within British society. It’s a “near and far” thing as well. I don’t think such barbarism would be tolerated or even considered, though I could be wrong. 😉

  199. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, I missed your covering of the distance factor.

  200. heedtracker says:

    Shameful and obscene.

    Gangster. Any where else and he’d be in the dock. As should that Sports Direct bundle of delights.

    The actual WTF horror behind slave wage millionaire UK greed, is that all took place under Bomber Bliar and Crash Gordo’s Labour right to rein over us, happy and etc.

    Vote entitled, angry SLab, again, damn you, because

    Pinned Tweet
    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 28 Jul 2015 Islington, London
    Labour’s recovery shouldn’t be about right v left, or rich v poor. It is about convincing everyone that social justice is in their interest.

    Dr NO.

  201. Stoker says:

    Dr Jim @ 2:53 pm

    Dinny furget the Whusky annawe!

  202. ScottieDog says:

    Mariana Mazzucato, one of scot gov’s economic advisors hits nail on head about UK economy in this short interview..

    She has just co-authored a book called rethinking capitalism which has some excellent contributors.
    Sure hope she is on hand for any future indyref.

    We should be going on the front foot about the UK economy now and it’s absolutely absurd running.

  203. CameronB Brodie says:

    Connor McEwen
    Right click on each page so it opens in a new tab. You can then zoom in on each frame.

  204. heedtracker says:

    Another UKOK zoomy day at The Graun, especially their BBC Scotland thing’s comment section. This is quite nice though. It never occurs to the commentator just why BBC Scotland is so massive in his Scotland region, compared to his patch of teamGB…that the North of England isn’t currently trying to shake off planet toryboy, who own the BBC and so on. Maybe one day the North of England will stop bleating, start to grow a pair and at least try and swing free:D

    “We don’t suffer any BBC bias in the North of England as they never mention us, indeed not sure if they actually have a camera or microphone on hand….

    With a high cost & large BBC edifice in Glasgow & Edinburgh whose total population just about matches that of Leeds while the 3rd largest city in the UK sees the BBC operate out of an office the size of an Aldi one wonders about these claims of bias….when asked the BBC said Leeds? We’ll follow that up”.

  205. K1 says:

    Ah ken Cameron, that wis a wee bit o ma point, they could get away wi murder 100’s of years ago though.

    I’m saying precisely if it weren’t for our nearness and the ‘hybridisation’ which was ‘forced’ upon us, then I think 50/60 years ago if we were at the point we are now in our cause, they woulda used the exact same methods of suppression as deployed in all other ‘colonies’.

    Barbarism was tolerated was it not, back then? Actually I think there was a ‘racial’ element back then too…the ‘othering’ ‘utilises’ ‘race’ as if there was a superior exceptional race called the English and all other ‘races’ are inferior. (Yes I know there is no such thing, that’s my point) The propagandist’s appropriate ‘terms’ as a means of manufacturing ‘consent’ for the destruction of other peoples’ cultures, stealing of their lands et al. Accusing the Scots of being anti English is a case in point, they are using precisely this same method ‘inversed’…as if…and I have ‘heard’ englishmen on this forum referring to themselves as a ‘race’…we are making out there ‘is’ such a thing as Scottish exceptionalism, and that our whole ‘raison d’être’ is predicated upon our ‘hating’ of the English.

    They ‘utilise’ that and ‘bang on that drum’ as a means of ‘justification’ and as a smokescreen for ‘their’ ‘hatred’ of ‘others’ who ‘differ’ from them. Then the whole conflation betwixt political dissent and cultural differences gets blurred and confusing, which is the entire point of them banging on about it all the time.

    Nuance is a nuisance to obsfucating tyrants. 🙂

  206. Stoker says:

    Grouse Beater,

    I’ve left you some material for the infamous ledger btl on here:

  207. Stoker says:

    Sorry, Grouse, just noticed you’ve got it, missed you by 10-mins!

  208. Grouse Beater says:

    Stoker: “I’ve left you some material for the Infamous Ledger.”

    As my American pals would say, “What Duesy!”

    I’ve included it as an all-time classic. Scotland is ‘England’ and Wales too.

    Many thanks, Stoker, and well spotted.

    The curious, scroll right down to Stoker’s link in the comments section at:

  209. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, I’m on a rather long, slow burn, I can’t put this topic down. Time to force the will to sleep. Btw, can I have your kids as well? 🙂

  210. CameronB Brodie says:

    Your nuance and time-traveling capabilities were obscured by my fatigue. Btw, can I have your kids as well? 🙂

  211. Iain Barker says:


    Most of the English I know view themselves as British except for my father who always thought of himself as English. He never once complained about being subject to anti English intolerance in Scotland, he claimed it just never happened.

    He was pretty relaxed about me growing up Scottish. It never entered my head to be anything but Scottish since I was born here and had Uncles who taught me about Scottish History and Culture that I never got at school, not even in Scotland. It has never entered my head to regard myself as British either. My father might be at the root of that thought strand though as he often told be the British Pres and Media misused the term Race.

    My father being ex RN, may he rest in peace, didn’t just regard the British/English Officer Classes as a different Race but a totally different species who should be squashed like insects because that is what they would do to us when nobody is looking! He was a Communist politically for most of his working life.

  212. K1 says:

    I like your dad Iain, he sounds as if he was ‘sane’ and insightful. 🙂

  213. K1 says:

    Cameron 🙂

  214. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Dorothy Devine

    Sorry folks I cant expand on the Herald piece I resigned ( to OSCR) as with others who i brought to the Trustees Board,as I wasent happy on answers to my questions on a number of things.

    Events overtook my endevours to bring some rules & working practises to bear previous to the Glasgow City Council/SGov funding alligations.

    Sorry I cant expand on any more explaination, we resignees were interviewed by Maryhill Police months ago,any comments from myself would be viewed as subjudicy,suffice to say many people feel let down, we just have to let justice take its course for now.

    I would opologise at this time to the many Wingers who contributed to Maryhill Foodbank .

  215. ronnie anderson says:

    Hi Ronald,

    I will make that my priority tonight to make sure everything is updated & clear.

    YesrallyGlasgow Green


    Matthew Hudson

    Public Relations, The Yes Movement

    The above EMail is in reply to time changes for the event on the Green. Watch out for the info I will post on Wings &

  216. dakk says:

    ‘Valerie says:
    18 August, 2016 at 2:15 pm
    Fair play to Sky news for reporting from the sunny Ithaca in Greece, with the 100m yacht, Lionheart, in the background’

    Whilst I initially thought it an interesting article,I felt it was pointless gutter press harrassment in order to appear as championing the publics cause against a fallen icon.What will the item really achieve?

    A nice jolly to Ithaca for the Sky News boys.They reported they made up and shook hands afterwards.Mbe ended up on board for champers.

  217. Robert Peffers says:

    @Alan Gerrish says: 18 August, 2016 at 10:48 am:

    ” … I always remark to friends it’s like coming back to a third world country, comparing infrastructure, social/economic/democratic inequality.”

    Just by coincidence, Alan, I was in Cowdenbeath High Street last week and there I spoke with a nice couple. I was telling them that the thought had just crossed my mind of when I first came to live in Fife.

    In those days the best newspaper in Scotland, and one you could buy in any airport in the World, was the Scotsman, (Aye! it was that long ago). The paper ran a weekly series of articles that surveyed a typical weeks shopping in Scottish towns & cities.

    Invariably the best performing town in Scotland was Cowdenbeath. On a Saturday afternoon you could hardly get along the High Street for the crowds and the queues outside such shops as Gronbachs The Butchers.

    We looked along the street and it was closed business’, charity shops, hairdressers and Bargain Stores.

  218. Valerie says:


    Sorry you had to go through this, it’s never pleasant.

    I also resigned from a charity, one I really believed in, because practices and behaviour were out of control. You can only fight for so long, and you often have to walk away, or go under.

    Always a nasty and disappointing business. The client group always suffer, or get lost in the nonsense of others.

    I learned a lesson about being a volunteer, that sometimes folk are in it for their own ego.

    Just my rant, and I’m more careful now. Hope you are ok, Ronnie.

  219. Valerie says:


    It did occur to me that there probably had to be an office draw for the assignment to Ithaca, but the point was well made, and I’m pleased to support any gutter press harrassment of Green.

    Couldn’t pick a better target for the gutter press than this nasty, smug mini mobster, living it up on his super yacht.

    I’m pretty sure the reporter and cameraman weren’t on board for champers.

    The point was made. While those plebs who work in BHS are living hand to mouth, this is what Green lives like.

  220. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Valerie Im ok ,its others I feel for,the good volunteen/trustee & the genuine needy who lose out.

    I hope that people reading the Herald piece arent put off from offering they,re services to Charities.

    PS Spoke with Pete the Camera, he,s now out of Hosp but still recovering , lets wish him all the Best towards a speedy recovery

  221. bjsalba says:

    It says a lot that just two French journalists grasped so much of what Scotland is about in just five days.

    It also says a lot that an entire mob of London journalists has grasped so little of what Scotland is about over an entire decade.

  222. Meindevon says:

    All this talk of accents reminds me of a friend I used to work with down here (about 25 years ago. Blimey I’ve been here a while!). We had a bit of banter re Scotland and England and I always remember once he said he didn’t think he had an accent. Ok he wasn’t exactly one of the Wurzels but he had a south west accent. So when he picked me up on something I said and he said I should ‘Lewn English’ I repeated it..’lewn English’ said the man with no accent! I also said so if you have no accent how will anyone know you are from the south of England? It was all good humoured!

    Also during some big footie tournament I put up wee flags on the wall with a St George’s cross for England with a union flag underneath for ‘those that can’t tell the difference’. Quite a few folk were flummoxed and didn’t get why both flags didn’t count for England.

  223. gus1940 says:

    I see that Neil Oliver has taken the same route as our Weetabix faced friend and thrown his toys out of the pram.

    If he can’t stand being attacked on-line he shouldn’t dish it out – are we supposed to just sit back and take any insults thrown us by these Unionist Uncle Toms.

    On the subject of Uncle Toms what has happened to our old pal Cockers – he seems to have vanished from the Torygraph. After Gardham’s departure to join his pal Mundell perhaps The Herald might squeeze him in – he is well down to their usual standards.

    The name Gerald Warner sprang into my head (unfortunately) yesterday. We haven’t been subjected to his bigoted Unionist poison for ages.

  224. gerry parker says:

    @ Meindevon

    I delight in asking them to say, then spell – worm.


  225. Fireproofjim says:

    Cocker seems to have been given a regular column in the Scottish Field.
    I am not a subscriber ( he hastened to say) but dentists have them in their surgeries, and it is nice to see how the other half live.

  226. Tam Jardine says:


    You post earlier was spot on. During the clearances there was an effort to portray Scots/Celts as racially inferior.

    Interestingly, all the Gers arguments against independence are predicated on our low population density- what was done to us.

    And now? Look at the express, the mail and even the herald and guardian. Day after day, racist anti Scottish snish claiming, in hopeful desperation that Sturgeon hates the English bla bla bla.

    The media have done this. Are we supposed to believe in Norway the BTL comments are like this? Or France? Or Germany?

    Strangely Isis – the bogeyman is the closest ideologically right now to ordinary right wing English thought in its intolerance and it’s zealotry. They are made for each other.

  227. dakk says:

    ‘Couldn’t pick a better target for the gutter press than this nasty, smug mini mobster, living it up on his super yacht.’

    Yeah,there is an outside chance that exposure like this could shame the Westminter Committees into pushing for confiscsation of assets for reparation to the BHS workers.

    Its more than the most of the msm have done,but I still doubt their motives.

  228. Derick fae Yell says:

    Totally off topic but anyway.

    would like to propose a minute’s silence for the long-suffering housing development staff of Labour controlled North Lanarkshire Council.

    Who have today been given a further fantasy target for new council house building, to add to the previous two targets.

    In February 2012 (yes just before the last Council elections) North Lanarkshire Council announced that the existing ambitious target to build 500 houses would be increased by “a further 1,000” by 2020. Which made the target then 1,500 by 2020. Very laudable. (Source: North Lanarkshire News, No 85, February 2012)

    Since the council house building programme was restarted in 2007 North Lanarkshire Council have built IN TOTAL 330 houses. (Source: Housing Statistics for Scotland – Local authority new build, June 2016 table tsCompFinYrLA – Local Authority new build completions by financial year

    So they are less than a third of the way to the number promised in their pre-election guff from 2012, with three and a half years to go until 2020

    Today’s fanfare on BBC Ghilliejockoland of a FURTHER 1,000 is a tiny bit optimistic to put it mildy. Fantasy figures. And the ‘poor bloody infantry’ will somehow have to deliver this aspiration.

    SLAB North Lanarkshire are either totally incompetent, or spinning so much you could fix a generator to them and power the country. Take your pick>

    I don’t have a TV, nor do I listen to Radio Ghilliejockoland. But I presume that the worthy presenters asked such questions as ‘is this remotely deliverable in this or any other universe, and if so in which decade?

  229. Albawoman says:

    I was a naval ratings wife in the late 1960’s. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. I felt that I had stepped back into Victorian times. My fathers family had been miners and we were well taught about the realities of The establishments behaviour towards miners and their families

    The officers Inhad the misfortune to meet up with reminded me of the descriptions of Victorian Factory Owners with their uniform of black suits and top hats. Their attitudes and behaviour towards the lower decks and their families was disgraceful

    I met up with another young wife at one of the naval social areas. She told me that her husband had asked her to smash his foot with a rolling pin. She had just given birth and they had slept in. The punishment for this misdemeanour was 14 days confined to barracks. His ankle was duly smashed. I fled the scene happily when my husband managed to release himself after 9 years service

  230. Kelpie says:

    CameronB Brodie and K1,

    If you haven’t seen the film Suffragette then you should give it a go. It took me two tries before I could watch past the scene where the police baton charge the ladies protesting outside Westminster.

    I saw a few parallels with indyref: the women don’t need to vote, they have suitable democratic representation via their fathers or husbands; any evidence that said fathers or husbands didn’t truly represent the concerns of their women was ignored; and their major problem was that the press was biased against them and they really needed to find a way to get the biased media to present their story to the public.

    I only hope we don’t have to get to the point of martyrdom which ends the film and gets the suffragette cause into the news.

  231. dakk says:


    ‘I only hope we don’t have to get to the point of martyrdom which ends the film and gets the suffragette cause into the news.’

    Had enough of wall to wall Yoonery in my life forever and a day.

    I’m your man ?

  232. Valerie says:

    In case you missed it another tagged bird of prey found dead in the same area as the eagles.

    Really hope Scottish gov’t do something instead of hand wringing.

  233. Breeks says:

    See Neil Oliver is describing Indyref 2 as another “hate-fest”.

    I don’t know what part of Scotland Neil spent his YES campaign, but there was certainly no hate fest in these parts, at least not that I ever saw.

    The only issue which left a bitter after taste was the BBC’s propaganda and manipulation of the narrative. Perhaps Mr Oliver’s comments give us more insight into the BBC rather than a properly informed perspective.

    I am left with a curious desire to “un-watch” all those episodes of Coast and other stuff he’s presented. Who wants to admit they’ve spent their time listening to an arsehole?

  234. dakk says:

    Mbe Hamilton Saints and Sinners night 😉

  235. scotspine says:

    Re Neil Oliver

    Spoke with a fellow today who experienced Oliver (for it is he) on Orkney several years ago.

    Oliver had his entourage of production personnel for some documentary he was filming.

    Full on Luvvie flouncing, with incessant hair flicking and air of movie star superiority by all accounts.

    What a prick.

  236. Hamish100 says:

    Valerie it is the Police that investigate crime not the Scottish Government.

    How do you in the wilds get evidence? Maybe each bird should have 2 trackers. As for the Game Association suggesting that we should not read anything into the number of deaths of birds of prey is a bit rich. Of course it is the rich landowners that have something to gain with less prey around.

  237. galamcennalath says:

    Breeks says:

    See Neil Oliver is describing Indyref 2 as another “hate-fest”.

    I saw him fairly recently in Pizza Express in Stirling. Yes, he is an insignificant wee naff in the flesh.

  238. Alex Clark says:


    Myself and a fair few other Wingers spent a weekend manning a stall at Arbroath Sea-Fest during the middle of August 2014, just one month before the referendum.

    Arbroath of course is the home of 45 Commando and many of them have families there and so too do those that decided to retire there. We were very open about who we were and there was no hate in sight ever. In fact the opposite would be true.

    We are all adults and there is no hate unless looking for it. Here are some pictures from the day, things the media don’t want you to see. Just people sharing.

  239. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Neil Oliver
    I’ll ride you in the morning luv, I don’t have the interest or energy tonight.

  240. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi scotspine.

    Does satire tell the truth?

  241. Sinky says:

    O/T Well done the Brownlee Brothers. Noticed they celebrated displaying a Yorkshire Flag.

    I wonder if any of our Proud Scots will display the Saltire and what the reaction of BBC / MSM would be?

  242. HandandShrimp says:

    Full on Luvvie flouncing,

    There is no way he could flounce with that bizarre wooden tops walk of his 😉

    However, Neil is a full blown BBC luvvie and his politics are not unlike his history…a wee bit too speculatively emotive and overblown for my taste.

    The BBC is his bread and butter so it is no surprise that his antipathy to an independent Scotland is so strong. If we succeed he won’t flounce but I think he will stomp off woodenly to rUK.

  243. Kelpie says:


    Give me a shout, I’ll be there to cheer you on!

  244. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Breeks @ 22:12

    See Neil Oliver is describing Indyref 2 as another “hate-fest”.

    Oliver has obviously never had a look at the btl on any article about Scotland in the mainstream press in recent times. Not so long ago I made a posting to an article in the Graun pointing out a few home truths, and doing so in a perfectly civil manner, and was called a few nasty names by some deranged BritNat zoomer. I made no complaint, but shortly afterwards it was removed, though not my (considered) response to it.

    The vast btl of that particular article was peppered with similar removals, and they were all, as far as I could ascertain, from roaring haters of BritNat persuasion.

    There is the occasional exception, of course, but in general Yessers are not intolerant of anything except our current subservient condition. But we’re never going to fade away out of fear of reactionary BritNat ranting, whether Oliver likes it or not.

  245. scotspine says:

    Hi BDTT.

    Its not playing, but I remember it very fondly.

    Oliver reminds me of a “Scots” version of Lawrence Llewelyn Bowen. He is just missing the lacy ruffs and cuffs and velour suits.

  246. dakk says:


    I said mbe. lol

  247. CameronB Brodie says:

    Thanks for the tip.

    Women, eh? Can’t live with them can’t kill them legally.

    “The Theory and Method of Oppositional Consciousness in the Postmodern World,” counters Jameson’s assertion* by tracking the U.S. women’s social movement from 1968 to 1988, and identifying the oppositional practices adapted and utilized by U.S. feminists of color, who advanced one of the first essentially “postmodern” resistance movements of the twentieth century, U.S. third world feminism.2 In the analysis of U.S. third world feminism, a cultural topography emerges by which oppositional forms of theory, practice, identity, and aesthetics can be, in Jameson’s terms, “cognitively mapped.”….

    (from above link)

    * that forms of resistance, oppositional consciousness, and social movement are no longer effective under the imperatives of the neocolonizing mode of globalization he calls postmodernism.

    P.S. Apparently love is a technology of social transformation. Good to know. 😉

  248. ronnie anderson says:

    @ HandandShrimp Stop using the word Flouncing when describing Oliver or he,ll be on screen advertising that new shampoo Flounce N Bounce N Go.

    he’ll storm aff when he see’s this thread lol.

  249. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. Lawrence Llewelyn Bowen. Don’t be fooled by outward appearances an on-screen persona. That’s all I’m saying. 😉

  250. heedtracker says:

    Neil Oliver’s the Andrew Neil of UKOK history, BBC Scotland’s answer to BBC England’s royals groveller David Starkey. He is a UKOK zoomer but he’s also got the ability and power to erase Scotland’s incredible history from our TV’s and its an appalling indictment of the BBC, or completely fine and dandy. Oliver’s main erasure of Scotland from history is to keep using “Britain” instead of Scotland.

    So the Neil Oliverian Scots history we never can hear, begins with Scotland as a nation forged almost 2000 years ago when the Roman Empire got their imperial arses kicked out of the northern British Isles we now call Scotland and home.

    Scotland was forged by the might of the Roman Empire. Over 400 years, the several imperial armies of Rome that tried could never defeat the Scots and ofcourse they had to build Hadrian’s wall, to keep us out. This much we all know yet today all we get is telly about the little scraps of Roman archaeology in England’s museums or boring piles of old stones in fields, Neil Oliver wetting his pants over broken mosaics. But the greatest Roman Empire legacy of all, is Scotland.

    That’s how I’d start the “History of Scotland,” probably not broadcastable on the BBC:D

  251. louis.b.argyll says:

    You’re right Hamish 100..
    .. it’s the police who react to crime, not the government.

    The government doesn’t even get to make laws, that’s parliament.

    The SNP have only got a foot in the door of our dysfunctional system.

  252. dakk says:

    Re Neil Oliver

    On short cruise of L.Lomond recently and was jarred by the recorded commentary by Neil Oliver.

    His grating exaggerated twee Scots accent made a dull cruise excruciating.

    Even a double g and t from the bar didnt help.They should offer smack on that ol tub.

  253. K1 says:

    Neil Oliver is highly regarded as a total wanker by all who ‘know’ him…of that I am sure. 😉

  254. Gary45% says:

    What’s a Neil Oliver?

  255. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Neil Oliver
    OK luv, will a quickie do?

    Archaeology, or archeology,[1] is the study of human activity through the recovery and analysis of material culture. The archaeological record consists of artifacts, architecture, biofacts or ecofacts, and cultural landscapes. Archaeology can be considered both a social science and a branch of the humanities.[2] In North America, archaeology is considered a sub-field of anthropology,[3] while in Europe archaeology is often viewed as either a discipline in its own right or a sub-field of other disciplines.

    I appreciate how this background will provide you an insight into historical human development and the spread of civilization but I am at a loss as to how it could possibly endow you with any critical insight into postmodern social change within a gobalised neocolonial paradigm.

    You must be good a digging though, so could you possibly digg up some evidence to back up your allegations of hate?

    Will that do you? Night, night luv.

  256. Alex Clark says:

    A Neil Oliver leaves a slimy trail along its path. It prefers darkness and shuns daylight. It is blind to all intents and purposes and uses feelers to sense its surroundings.

    Those feelers are very sensitive to its own well being. Its whole existence is dependent upon scraps it finds while raking around in muck in pursuit of something to sate its appetite. It has been known to feed on shite when hungry.

    It is a slug.

  257. dakk says:

    Gary45% says:
    19 August, 2016 at 12:03 am
    What’s a Neil Oliver?

    A long haired luvvie from north britainland.

    Feel song comin on

  258. Valerie says:


    Gee thanks for putting me right on who investigates crime, I had no idea. If you read what I posted, I didn’t mention crime or prosecution.

    I was referring to other routes the Scottish gov’t might take to tighten up law around shooting of game, estates etc.

  259. call me dave says:

    SNP councillor ‘happy and relieved’ after suspension sparked by racism claims is lifted

  260. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Neil Oliver
    Sorry luv, I just remembered that you must have an appreciation of human meaning making processes in order to speak for the dead, which suggests you choose to ignore the significance of the psychic harm done to a nation bound in parasitic subordination.

    You’re chucked.

  261. CameronB Brodie says:


  262. K1 says:

    Fuck Cameron that really wis a ‘brief affair’ 😉

  263. yesindyref2 says:

    Thought for the day (yesterday / today / tomorday, who knows?)

    The SNP and the Scottish Government should do vastly different things to each other in Indy Ref 2.

    The SNP can lay out their policies, their manifesto for iScotland. The SG should describe the process, currency how long to set up and how, central bank, similar, how borrowing works, departments / ministries, in other words HOW to govern indy Scotland. A lot of that was missing in IR1, and us foot soldiers had to work it out for ourselves.

  264. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sometimes the effort would be better spent in self-fulfilling contemplation. 🙂

  265. CamernoB Brodie says:

    Perhaps in a tent? 😉

  266. Cactus says:

    Balls you say Charlie.. hell aye, we got big balls:

    Here’s another electrifying band who also have big ones:

    Good morning nightshift.

  267. Capella says:

    The dilemma facing Scotland’s Eurosceptic nationalists –

    BBC notice that Moray is close to the Leave camp. The fishermen blame Europe. If Westminster sold them out in 1974 what’s to stop that happening again?

  268. Chic McGregor says:

    Neil Oliver, wonder how he voted in indyref1? The clue is in his initials I suspect.

    Still no Loriel contract, surely he’s worth it, or isn’t it British?

  269. Legerwood says:

    Story in the Herald about STV giving in to SNP bullying – allegedly – on pretty thin evidende.

    Involves Mr Dailey and absence of input from him for several weeks.

  270. Macart says:

    Just been catching up on this Oliver thing.

    He’s been a very silly wee boy. 😮

  271. gordoz says:

    Pretty sure Prof Tom Devine had the measure of Mr Oliver … Look it up … ‘nough said.?

  272. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks, scotspine for finally making me realise who Oliver reminded me of: LL Bowen. You can just see them as a pair of camp courtiers in a sub-Blackadder comedy at the court of Louis XVI. “Ooh, look at the muck in here!”

    Be gentle with wee Neil, he’s an archaeologist, not a historian. Remember the dire “Two Men in a Trench” series he made with Tony Pollard where, despite going to several battlefields, they could hardly find a button? There was so little worth filming they included a sequence where they went off to the pub to get blootered.

    The one good thing he was involved with was a documentary on one of the great Scots, a man who knew a lot about being written out of Establishment history:

    Did I imagine it or was Neil’s stuff to camera delivered through gritted teeth for this one?

  273. Breeks says:

    @Yesindyref2 at 1:24am

    Said it a while ago that the SNP should have two manifestos. The first for day to day government and Council business, but have a second uber-manifesto for Independence Issues.

    Simple reason is would be very easy to reign in Unionist anchormen who want to talk about anything you like except sovereign independence. It should be very easy to truncate the detour and get the conversation back on the pro-Indy agenda. I reckon it would be a neat way to bundle up the non-essential arguments and keep them in perspective as “non-definitive” issues, and keep obstacles off the pitch when we are addressing matters of pure sovereignty and Independence.

    The first manifesto should be undiluted SNP political stuff as you’d expect, but the second manifesto should be impartial and studiously objective, and aimed at a much broader kirk. It should strive to be both a manifesto and an educational tool for undecideds who are turned off by hard sell propaganda, just as we Independentists aren’t moved by all the Unionist guff. Keep it clear, informative, and robust. If 2014 is anything to go by, it might be the only opportunity there is to get a straight and dispassionate version of the arguments out to the electorate.

  274. Famous15 says:

    I get the impression that Neil Oliver is offended that his “greatness” is being undermined by questioning liberationists.

    During the Indyref the comedic and satirical triumph was the Senior Labour politicians arrival in Glasgow being greeted by “Welcome to our Imperial Masters. Bow down to their eminences”

    I see Oliver in that team imperialism and him being a functionary of Empire rewarded with crumbs.

    I do not loathe him , I pity his weakness. He is less than a very silly little boy he is a spoilt brat.

  275. Grouse Beater says:

    Published late tonight:

    My observations on Scotland’s forever still-born film industry, and a truly great film to see as compensation.

  276. Ian Brotherhood says:

    It’s always a pleasant surprise to hear Stephen Jardine instead of her with the ‘e’, but he’s been lumbered with yet another hour of The Obesity Crisis. If it’s not that it’s booze.

    It’s moving beyond parody. We can’t be far away from a special three-hour ‘Fat Fuck Phone-in’. ‘Give us a call if you’re eating chips right now…’

    Everyone knows the ‘twtpts’ mantra, but we should expand it to include ‘too fat’ and ‘too pished’.

    The message from the BBC to the natives is loud and clear – you’re just a hopeless shower who prove, day-in-day-out, that you’re incapable of looking after yourselves.

  277. Schrödinger's Dug says:

    Alex Clark says: 18 August, 2016 at 10:50 pm
    “Arbroath of course is the home of 45 Commando and many of them have families there and so too do those that decided to retire there. We were very open about who we were and there was no hate in sight ever. In fact the opposite would be true.”

    I recently was in a pub discussing new ships with a sailor and his dad, the conversation got round to Trident removal from the Clyde, I didn’t bring it up, Father said “bloody SNP”, the sailor, “Dad I am a SNP supporter” I said “so am I”, I asked dad in what branch he served, “Oh me don’t be daft”, we both then put him straight on a few of his misconceptions.

    So don’t ever assume, I have always found the ones most disposed to wrap themselves around the butchers apron, are the same ones that would run a mile if was suggested they “take the shilling” yes the love the Brit nat patriotism as long as its cheap.

  278. K1 says:

    Genuine laugh out loud IanB…’Fat Fuck Phone-in’…am so phonin’ in the morra wi a bag o chips at the ready…

    Ah fuckin’ love Wings… 🙂

  279. call me dave says:

    Little snippet in The National this morning.

    Written constitution to be crafted by ‘Demos Scotland’ launched last night. The brain child of Dr Mark McNaught and Mr A P Bell on the team writing it.

    On my tablet can’t post link but will do later 🙂

  280. X_Sticks says:

    Sorry O/T but there’s a cause here I think is worth bringing to the attention of the troops.

    East Dunbartonshire Council has sold off Thomas Muir’s house at Huntershill to a developer who intends to turn it into a care home. John Nicholson MP has been tweeting about it here:

    For anyone who doesn’t already know the history of this amazing man:

    I’d like to urge all Wingers to get behind a campaign to stop EDC from wrecking a house that should be a memorial to Thomas Muir and the Scottish Martyrs.


    SOMEONE needs to make a film of this man’s life. It would make The Revenant look like a stroll in the park. Winkie thingy>

  281. X_Sticks says:

    BTW East Dunbartonshire Council is a unionist coalition, so over and above any greed for money the is probably a political angle to the desire to wreck something that should be a memorial to an amazing Scottish independence supporter.

    None of us would be here (independence wise) had it not been for Thomas Muir.

  282. Lochside says:

    Ian B: ‘Fat fuck phone-in’..excellent! Call Kaye is awaiting your call oh corpulent ones.

  283. Andrew McLean says:

    Thomas Muir

    “We have achieved a great duty in these critical times. After the destruction of so many years, we have been the first to revive the spirit of our country and give it a National Existence.”

    And still the propagandising by the Scottish mainstream press attempt to extinguish the flame. fools!

  284. hamish says:

    The text is too tiny for this visually-challenged Frnacophole.

  285. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Click the images to enlarge, obviously.

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