Song For The Fiscal Framework
Posted on
February 23, 2016 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Watch the devolution committee live from 8.30am here.
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A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
You’d have thought ‘No detriment’ would be easy enough to understand. The response ‘This much? No? How about THIS much?’ has told us everything we need to know.
08:41 BBC Live Reporting
“Mr Swinney says fundamentally the governments are not in agreement that the principle of no detriment means that the Scottish budget should in no way be subject to a systematic deduction.”
That’s pretty much that, then.
Whither the Daily Record?
Now we will see if the SNP has got what it takes.
For viewers outside the UK try this link..
link to scottishparliament.tv
Just noticed – today is “National Toast Day”.
Appropriate or what . . .
I really do wish John Swinney would tell them to stick it up their collective arse & walk away from this utter nonsense. Why are we having to negotiate?
VOW NOT DELIVERED (shocker).
Who knew?
@R-Type
I’d say because its better for HMG to be seen to default, with of course a reasonable Scottish government being seen to dot every ‘i’ and cross every ‘t’ in terms of scrutiny and due dilligence.
At some point HMG will have to explain to the electorate just why devo max, near federalism, most powerful blah, blah, blah… wasn’t and had no intention of being delivered.
Should be entertaining on the back of another Osborne austerity budget and an EU referendum.
Well, Stu, I’d love to watch this ‘live’ but living in an ‘its a bit crap’ broadband area, all I get is a few seconds of disjointed words then a Big Brotheresque screen message ‘You do not have enough broadband width to watch this now. Please try later’.
‘Later’? Aye, that’ll be in circa 50 years then, British Telecommunication. All this pooling & sharing… why did I ever vote ‘YES’.
This is sssssssssooooo much better, together, eh? No broadband but, my, those ‘broad shoulders’…
What they actually meant, I see, was ‘cold shoulder’.
Bastards. I am so angry at how the people in my country are being pissed on from a great height.
SNP. SNP. No fannying about with the Greens or Rise or Solidarity.
Strength is the only thing Tories understand.
Voting Green or Rise or Solidarity in May is a vote for the Tories.
The link to the BBC’s coverage of the Holyrood committee labels The SNP’s Dennis Robertson as a Labour MSP…… Is this a new Dirty Trick, giving the Red stories the credit for having a decent competent MSP
Fiscal framework:
Swinney on now and Mundell later this afternoon but no Hands.
link to scottishparliament.tv
Mundell will be appearing later by video link, disrespectful oik. Too feart to appear in person.
Geez when will this farce end.
Do we know the number of unionists making up this committee? Do we know if as normal MR Swinney is in for a rough ride where Mr Mundell will just get to say his piece. Will they note the absence of Mr Hands?
I agree with Macart, the SG needs to be seen to be looking after the interests of Scotland, whilst I would love for him to walk away from the table, he has to look to those who thought they were voting for Gordon and the Daily Record’s vow, all of us knew we were going to be shafted.
Mr Swinney in sober mood there then and not giving much away either.
Doesn’t look good for an outcome that suits Scotland if he deals.
This mornings business closed and Mundell to be seen after tea time.
link to youtube.com
Good spot, Fat Boab!
Enjoying the Wings Twitter timeline, over on the right. Someone’s just posted a jpg of Moodies Gordon dinosaur, in the hope of invoking an intervention.
If anybody is interested, Glasgow Uni has a free talk on Wednesday night titled ‘Fiscal Aspects of the Scotland Bill: Getting it Right – Professor Muscatelli analyses key aspects of the proposed framework and its implications.’
Wednesday, 24 February at 6 p.m.
Sir Charles Wilson Lecture Theatre
(Corner of Gibson Street and University Avenue)
Cuilean,
Too late now but for the future try
link to scottishparliament.tv
It is much lighter. The BBC really hogs bandwith via their player.
@Helena
Same here. Nothing would please me more, but that’s not the job they were asked to do. However galling it is, their job is to get round a table scrutinise and govern as a majority asked them to do.
I reckon there’s nothing Mr Swinney would like better than to stuff their devo lite down their throats, but that’s the difference between Holyrood government and Westminster government. One does as it is asked in good faith, the other?
Not so much.
The Scottish Government is correct to reject the Scotland Bill Trojan Horse.
However difference in presentation is a challenge as, unlike the Tories in London, we have an almost uniformly hostile anti SNP press from whom the broadcasters take their agenda.
Other than in the National or Sunday Herald, Labour are never challenged in the Scottish press and rarely on TV.
I fear that over the Scottish Parliament elections we will be swamped by the right wing London press / TV’s fixation with the EU referendum.
@Nana
Mundell by video link… and no Hands either geez!
Feeeeeel the disrespect folks.
SNP x 2.
Why are we even negotiating on this pile of keech? This package of ‘powers’ is nothing more than a booby-trap. And the only tool we are being given to disarm it is a bloody hammer. “No detriment?” Aye right – BOOOOOOOOM!!!!
WM is simply playing silly buggers here, drawing out the ‘negotiations’ so that when they eventually ‘cave-in’ it will be heralded in Scotland as a ‘great victory’ over WM. Oh how the Colonial Media will play it up. But it will be a pyrrhic victory for we will have won precisely hee-haw. It’s just being pumped-up with protracted negotiations to make it look more than it actally is.
I’d hate to think how long negotiations would take if there actually WAS anything of substance being offered.
And that’s the thing, isn’t it – “being offered”. It is entirely within the power of WM to GIVE powers. With Indy we simply TAKE them. No messing, no protracted nonsense, no silly buggers.
Let’s get rid of these clowns and TAKE what is rightfully ours.
Start in May – SNP x 2 = IndyRef 2
You need hands by Nabil Shaban might have been a better send up.
The Tories can’t even read a balance sheet. Useless.
The mystery is why people in the Borders vote for Mundell.
Yes Macart! I Know! I know!
I knew on the night of the Referendum that anyone who BELIEVED the ‘VOW’ MEANT ANYTHING WAS BEING DUPED. I KNOW!
But I am so angry.
John Swinney, I believe, has put his ALL into making something out of this SHAM.
I am so grateful to John Swinney and his team for that hard hard work. And their efforts are even more impressive knowing that it was all carried out, in the knowledge that it would all be for nothing.
I know that the Scottish Government know what we know and knew back then,(sorry I’m making ths sound silly)but it makes me feel sick to witness Westminster’s contempt for Scotland so SO blatent! Again.
AND then the press ignore it and hide it because the gyrations of the shabby blond damp squib are such a huge distraction!! GRRR.
Aye well. Big deep breath. Leaflets to deliver.
wow–mundell only using video link
of course scottish finance committee only a pretend parliament
must be raging–hope they roast him,then pull plug
No doubt the blame game will begin in earnest, and the corporate media guns are preparing the next “SNP BAD” volley.
Not that anyone will notice, all eyes and ears seem to be directed to Saint Boris, defender of the faith, at the mo.
The video link with Fluffy is a masterstroke should the questions become too difficult like “what day is it?” Fluffy will have someone at hand to distort the sound or pull the plug Pure genius thinking
Toys oot the pram by Rump UK because their Baldrick type “Cunning plan” was not good enough to trap the SNP and they are at a loss as what to do next.
Where’s their “Plan B”?
Oh! This is it. Hide and sulk? Stick a finger in each ear and shout”Na! Na! Na! Na!
Cearc,
Thankyou. Appreciated.
“EU exit would risk jobs, says group of business bosses”
link to bbc.co.uk
Now where have I heard that before? The hypocrisy is just astounding.
O/T
If you have a God then say a little prayer for nurse Pauline Cafferkey, who has been taken into hospital again. The poor woman has paid a high price for her humanity.
Give thanks to your imperial masters
link to theguardian.com
It’s the economy, stupid
Even the most devoted of independence activists will accept that the reason they lost was because the yes side failed to make a convincing argument about what would happen to Scotland’s currency if it separated from the rest of the UK.”
Today of all days and from the same crew of progressive liberal fakes that gave us UKOK stuff like
link to wingsoverscotland.com
and their progressive liberal
link to wingsoverscotland.com
It really is a victorious day for imperial masters and all to keep one country in control of its neighbour.
Rejoice.
As much as I would like to see John Swinney walk away from the talks on the fiscal frame work.
He can’t, he has to been seen to exhaust all options that are available to him in coming to fair settlement.
If he walked away now, the unionist parties would make hay by claiming that John Swinney and the Scottish Government
never seriously had any intention of negotiating a fair fiscal settlement with Westminster.
‘Revenge. Why the worm will turn on those nasty Tories’.
Please stop bad mouthing Westminster and the establishment Remember Dave et al LOVE US & need us! With friends like them who needs enemies.
SG has went the extra mile, well done John Swinney and his team. OVER TO YOU DAVE, THE BAWS IN YOUR COURT. make sure you play the correct one.
BBC 24 tv news breaking, headline ticker tape, Scottish nurse readmitted to hospital.
So Osborne and Hands disdain to appear personally in front of our SG negotiators. Such absence of respect is unremarked upon by our lying resident arse licking corporate media. From Jackie Bird through Glen Campbell to Brian Taylor, they are lying toadies with no allegiance to their own native land.
Add in the Record’s Foote, the Herald’s Tom Gordon and the Record’s ‘Political journalist of the year’ (1690?) David Clegg along with every other ("Quizmaster" - Ed) scribbling lies for a disreputable living.
How can these apologies for human beings look themselves in the mirror knowing that they are colluding with the biggest attempted sell out of Scotland since 1707? Knowing full well that the result is the further impoverishment of Scotland by the imperial British State?
Of course they do….and do they give a damn?…of course not. They are Scotland’s shame and they deserve to be remembered forever for their treachery.
link to bbc.co.uk
Not even a headline, just another story. They are really going to have work hard to UKOK bury this though, especially Pacific Quay crew. YES voters I know consoled each with “well at least we’ll get this devo-max The Vow” Sept 19 2014, even after Cameron came out with his forget the sweaties England, it’s EVEL now.
Cannae unerstaun’ a word o’ it. Worse than Britain’s goat nae talent. It’s a good joab mah mind’s made up.
Looks like the Cameron Englanders are trying tae force the mild mannered SuperSwinney intae declaring UDI. Forget the Cannae Dae it Brigade. If Swinney rises we’re a’ oot.
@X_Sticks says:
23 February, 2016 at 10:37 am
EU exit would risk jobs, says group of business bosses
Interesting to see who isn’t backing the business leaders letter.
“Backing Europe will deter customers, according to Sainsbury’s, Morrisons and Tesco.
Tesco said in a statement: “The referendum on EU membership is a decision for the people of Britain. Whatever that decision is, our focus will continue to be on serving customers.”
Companies are keen to be seen as “neutral” to avoid offending customers on either side of the debate.
“We have thousands of employees and customers and no doubt there are strong opinions on both sides. The board has discussed it, and Persimmon has decided to remain firmly neutral,” a spokesman for Persimmon said.
Sainsbury’s said it was an “apolitical organisation” and that the referendum is a matter for the people.”
Have they learned something from the Scottish referendum is it just CYA time?
Didn’t realise that the pound had crashed to a seven year low yesterday,that must mean lower than at any time during the indyref campaign.
All that uncertainty,eh?
All those unanswered questions about being out of Europe,the poor deal achieved by the prime minister(of course though,it’s tough negotiating a fair deal with someone bigger than you,isn’t it?
) not to mention the speculation on what kind of eton classmate will be thrust on us next. I sure I even heard an analyst on the telly say UK is on hold or something similar.
It seems to me that the indyref ‘winners’ are using the arguements from both sides against themselves,shooting themselves in both feet in the process.
The First Minister is due to make a statement to MSPs this afternoon.
Share article
Secretary of State for Scotland David Mundell is due to appear before the further powers committee this evening.
Mr Swinney said agreement had been reached on other aspects of the fiscal framework, including the cost of setting up a Scottish welfare system and budgets for back-to-work employability programmes.”
UKOK Herald con artists even lying about Fluffie’s “appearance” before their ridiculously named further powers committee. Web cam’s not exactly an appearance before, although courts use with crooks that dont want to make an appearance from jail.
Companies will be neutral for now. Until Mr Cameron calls them all to Downing Street for a free lunch and opens the titles drawer again, that is. Worked well last time after all,and they seem to be using the same tactics.
If this is how they treat a tiny little change can you imagine the shenanigans they would be trying if we were in negotiations for what was ours as an independent nation.
That has always been a concern of mine they strung out India and Ireland for years its in the nature of westminster and the empire if its something they dont want it takes forever to be negotiated with lots of traps and dilutions paraded as amendments,now though if its to bomb the crap out someone at massive expense it only takes a few days.
A farce of a parliament and a farce of a democracy.
My mind drifts back to Nicola Sturgeon tv debates,where UKOK parties ganged up,ably assisted with the broadcaster,to attack her.
Sturgeon went up in my estimation,never buckling,fighting her corner more often than not winning the arguments/debates,(whilst never lowering the tone of the debate),a class act.
Likewise Swinney today turns up and reports,respectfully to parliament again a class act.
London’s bag man is too busy……who has Scotland best interest at heart ?….what you might call a no brainer (no pun intended).
Let’s hope this is a tipping point for some.
If you didn’t know where Scotland stands in the Estimation of Westminster before, you do now. It is frightening to know that Labour would have walked head first into this trap. Thank you SNP.
Indy 2 please.
BBC 24 tv news droning on and on EU ref, live coverage of nothing EUOK much, Mr Cameron speech from O2 Slough, no questions, Mr Cameron, genius, just coming in, Berkshire, O2, employees only, stretching the UKOK bleh out as far as it’ll go, did I mention Mr Cameron’s a genius, grovels BBC ligger, vocal stretching BBC style fills in dead air. Its toryboy BBC world and this is how they are using it, here’s the great man, fingers splayed, far better off inside the European union, BBC tv Mr Cameron’s personal broadcaster again…12 weeks of it to go.
Kezia Dugdale is on Daily Politics on BBC 2.
Should be fun
@ Mr thms.
Kezia on the Daily politics show. She just couldn’t help herself. SNPBaaaaad! she bleats while trying to justify a Labour Party in tatters.
This total lack of respect and common decency yet again by the english elite, it goes back in time for hundreds of years, but as they say the victors write the history, masses of things get covered up.
On the 4th of June 1746 fourteen Jacobite banners and staffs were burnt in Edinburgh in the aftermath of Culloden.
The Stuart Standard was carried by the Edinburgh Hangman the others were carried by chimney sweeps in procession, escorted by Hanoverian troops through the town. The Standard and the Flags were held over the the flames by the Senior Herald. This action was carried out on the order of the Duke (Butcher) of Cumberland.
In May Vote SNP X 2, in June Vote to stay in the EU, May 2017 Vote SNP and Ref2 Vote for an Independent Scotland!
WE all know what the westminster elite think of Scots, Irish, Welsh come to that matter everyone, NOT ONE OF US.
Well that being the case we will just be an Independent Scotland, Scots get on with everyone (exception tory elite). It won’t be us holding them over the fire, at present they are doing a good job of jumping in to it, hell mend them !
In May Vote SNP X 2, in June Vote to stay in the EU, May 2017 Vote SNP and Ref2 Vote for an Independent Scotland!
O/T
Police warn of violence ahead of St Patrick’s Day Loyalist march
The Regimental Blues, a fringe Loyalist group, submitted a request to Glasgow City Council in September last year for permission to stage a parade through the east end of the city and into the centre.
link to news.stv.tv
So Kezia, what do you think about the EU referendum?
“Ah think it’s reeeeeeally important. But whit aboot the wimmin’. ‘Mon the Wimmin!”
Vacuous pish. It’s like watching a Haribo advert.
Yup total BBC tv lunchtime national news black out on UK.gov the Vow fiscal frame fail in Edinburgh. Headlines all England.
OT What is the difference between a Loyalist and a Unionist in a Scottish context?
The colonial media seem to differentiate. When the are on the nasty fringes they become Loyalists.
link to holyrood.com
@R-type Grunt says: 23 February, 2016 at 9:01 am:
“I really do wish John Swinney would tell them to stick it up their collective arse & walk away from this utter nonsense. Why are we having to negotiate?”
It’s called diplomacy, R-type, or Parliamentary standards.
In effect John has actually told them where to stick it and Hands has told John, “Take it or leave it”, by swanning off on his hols. The procedure now is for John to follow the procedure and appear before the Committee and report he is leaving it while Fluffy goes into panic mode.
I’m a bit in the dark as to what happened, though, as I had to go out and missed the live show.
Swinney hints the fiscal framework negotiations might have to be punted upstairs to CMD and Sturgeon.
Must be true it’s in the Herald.
Cat Boyd in today’s Nash, deariefuckinme! the SNP are appareently trying to do too much, being at once the leaders of protest & colonial administrators, did you ever read such bollox. One thing we can be sure of is that Cat & crew are totaly unfit to administer a whelk stall it might interfere with enjoying the luxury of carping from the side-lines.
link to caltonjock.com
We never expected any different did we, that’s the Brits for you, negotiate till the end of time until everyone dies of boredom or the other party gives up
The SNP know the tactic well that’s why they won’t give up because they’d be accused of signing up to a bad thing and the Great British United Kingdom of England and it’s complicit media in Scotland would recycle any mistake by the SNP from now until forever and scream Kezia and her new hairdo for Queen or worse Kim Jong Davidson for Tyrant
Come to think of it both of those choices made me feel really queezily bad there (shuddder and boak) heads for Lavvy
Phew, still posting!
link to bathchronicle.co.uk
Thought ‘they’ might have got to you..
OT we can expect another SNP bad news story, Fife council has announced it is to shed up to 2000 jobs over the next three years
@Robert Peffers
link to youtube.com
Peter,
I look at this way.
Why should council employees be exempt from what employees of other businesses have gone through since the bubble burst in 2008.
The workforce at my place of work has reduced by over half in that space of time.
Councils can make big savings by cutting back on their bosses who earn more money than Nicola Sturgeon or even David Cameron for that matter.
@Call me dave says: 23 February, 2016 at 9:22 am:
“Swinney on now and Mundell later this afternoon but no Hands.”
call me dave says:
23 February, 2016 at 9:22 am
Fiscal framework:
Swinney on now and Mundell later this afternoon but no Hands.
link to youtube.com
Better Together September 2014, – ‘Vote No and we will give you Devo Max’.
Better Together Febuary 2016, – ‘We know we’re giving you SFA, but let face it, it’s not our fault you dumb Jocks are thick as shit and will believe anything we lie to you.’
@Ann,
Quite agree. It is well known in Glasgow that there have been jobs for the boys. Councils like Glasgow have wasted countless millions on employing useless pals.
The Chairman of the scheme to regenerate employment in the East end of Glasgow eventually left with a half million pound payout.
He had created 6 ,yes (six) jobs in a year.He also picked up his salary every month courtesy of the Council. Over a million quid.
These are the things that cost the taxpayer money,and other employees their jobs.
They have to go.
FM to speak about it this afternoon
I think she will tell uk secretary of Scotland mundell,to give a answer tonight.
kezia on dp said no one should walk away talks till may elections if need be(labour setting up to blame SNP)
The Daily Record what are they like, their head is seriously F’cked up.
@ANN
I agree with what you say up to a point, however there are front line staff who deliver important services to the public, who seem to get the dirty end of the stick when it comes to the job losses.
Any cost cutting should start at the top of the tree and drastically number of highly paid officials employed by Local authorities.
@FairFerfochen
@Robert Peffers
Aye that Max Bygraves one did occur to me but wanted something more modern.
Sturgeon to make a statement this afternoon… what!
She’s not waiting on the video link man to speak first after tea time …
Meanwhile … the voice of reason. Aye right!
link to archive.is
SNP, Labour, Tory, Libdem and Greens all sitting on the Devolution Committee.
link to scottish.parliament.uk
Still worth watching just how much of historic and breath taking liar Gordon Brown really is and the great UKOK media too obviously.
link to channel4.com
@Fred
agreed ‘re Cat Boyd. It’s great being an angry young thing, I was once too, but it’s not much use when you need experience, and strategic thinking to deal with the Bullingdon Club.
What I simply can’t understand is why these bright youngsters don’t hone their skills, get themselves known and respected, for when we are independent.
Cat Boyd is known, but she has lost my respect for her views, with the carping, and bitter criticism, with no real knowledge of the systems. They genuinely believe you go in, and tell everyone GTF.
Sir Ian Wood on Radio today and it seems
That Scottish oil production is at peak levels
And we still have around a third of the oil
Remaining in existing fields.
Experts predict 20 Billion barrels worth.
Isn’t that strange because he assured us
At the referendum that it was running out
And we had nothing like the 20 Billion barrels
That Alex Salmond had suggested?
He wants tax cuts for the big oil corporations
That have been making fortunes for decades
Woods included .
I can’t see the problem with waiting until after the May elections to seal a deal. This is too important to rush.
The Treasury have moved (with no Hands). Their initial offer was a detriment of about £3.7b. That has been whittled down to just over £2bn.
It has been like drawing teeth. If Nicola and John need to draw a few more then so be it.
Another way the trap on the SNP could work out.
The Treasure continues to ignore “no detriment” as they are doing.
The SNP are forced to withdraw due to money loss under present treasury proposals.
The BUM are ready and in place for a huge assault on the SNP, for refusing what they say, is an excellent deal for Scotland.
This would involve all their media sources.
The aim, is to remove votes from the SNP in May. This may have always been a part of their critical planning.
After the election, they recall the SNP to talk again, this time they agree the no detrement should be even handed after all.
So what they achieve, or hope too, is to change voters away from the SNP in a big way, making them the problem and bellowing across the media ” they are only after Independence, not a fair deal for Scotland” trying to put people off.
Creating a big negative for the party.Propaganda on an ever increasing level. Some will swither, some will believe what they say. They hope the results will prove their path was the right one.
After agreeing to ” no detrement” they will be praised to high heaven by BUM across the usual sources, they will be the good guys who went the extra mile, Smith delivered.
Despite the BAAAD Snp. A propaganda coupe?
Is that possibly their path?
The tactics of the Treasury, Hands and Osborne are starting to appear obvious.
String it out, the longer they do that then meet John Swinneys position in full then obviously the Scottish Government must accept the deal.
Everything they asked for has been delivered, this is a big mistake in my view. The Scottish Government accepting this deal will be a rod for their own back.
At least that is the plan of our Imperial Masters.
HandandShrimp says:
“I can’t see the problem with waiting until after the May elections to seal a deal. This is too important to rush.”
I suppose it depends on the SNP’s wider strategy.
I believe they would accept this Smith Lite now if the fiscal framework was sorted out.
However, given the SNP’s submissions to Smith, the stack of rejected amendments to the Bill, the fact that no one in Scotland actually believes this Bill is even Smith far less the Vow, and the SNP consider this a small Devo step …. IMO they intend to campaign for May on a ticket of ‘the full Vow or else’.
If that analysis is correct, then rejection and blaming WM would not harm a more ambition strategy.
Nicola on the fiscal farce
link to bbc.co.uk
Is this present deal actually part of Smith? I ask because if it’s simply the unionist “stitch up”/offer of another variant of the original 3% tax raising power never used that they were discussing before the referendum. One that doesn’t actually have a no detriment clause included. Those toerags and chums might actually be blatant enough to claim that it’s exempt because of that. Or it might be an attempt to weaken Scotland’s position before they have to honour the no-detriment clause in what ever powers are actually going to be delivered.
@Thepnr
No deal so long as there is clear water on interpretation of no detriment.
FM in parly now, thus far and no farther as far as the SG is concerned.
Did anyone else hear very early on R4 Today program/news about all the companies signing up for Davie Cameron in the referendum? But some companies refused to sign, Tesco and I think Sainsbury’s mentioned, as they were scared of their shops being boycotted.
We must have made some think twice, or maybe we just gave them a get out clause.
Ach Macart
Maybe I’m just being overly pessimistic and the SG’s plan is that it doesn’t really matter as they will have another referendum within this 5 year timeframe bollocks.
Then it’s all or nothing, maybe a good plan B?
@Bob Mack
I notice that 25 executives at GCC earn salaries totalling 4.5 million per annum. Add on top of the range company cars, gold plated pension scheme, expenses, perks etc etc and you’re looking st almost £10m per annum. GCC is required to make savings of £160m over four years. Well that bunch getting the heave ho would provide a quarter of said amount.
rUK’s got bills, they’re multiplying!
And they’re losing control.
Cause of the Indyrefs, the SNP are supplying.
They’re electrifying!
… sung to “You’re The One That I Want” from Grease.
@Not Convinced
You didn’t need to tell us who it was sung to, think we got that!
Nice one
@Thepnr
Put it this way. I think that timeframe is very…. opportune.