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Wings Over Scotland

Sometimes you have to write things down

Posted on January 26, 2014 by

Because if you don’t, your brain sort of refuses to acknowledge that certain things happened, and won’t let you dwell on them lest you lose your grip on reality.

So when we watched Douglas Alexander interviewed on Sunday Politics Scotland today, and heard an answer so bizarre and so spectacularly, flagrantly unrelated to the question he was asked that we briefly thought there might have been a slow-acting hallucinogenic in the cinnamon-and-vanilla cider we were drinking last night, we figured we better get it down in print so we could study it properly and check our sanity.


(Click the image to watch and listen for yourselves.) See what you think.


GARY ROBERTSON: When we look at the experience of other countries, I mean, you say in your article ‘Young people fear an independent Scotland would be a narrowing, not a broadening experience’. Could you point to a country that’s gained independence where that’s been the case?

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well actually we’re in a distinctive position, in the sense we’re a historic nation but we’re part of a multicultural, multinational, multi-ethnic country, and –

ROBERTSON: Yeah, but I’m asking you to back up this claim that an independent Scotland would be a narrowing not a broadening experience. Which country has that been the case in?

ALEXANDER: Well, look at the study that was undertaken that your own package quoted from Edinburgh University, where overwhelmingly, young people made clear that they wanted to be part of something bigger, as well as feeling great pride in what they’re part of here in Scotland, as part of their Scottish identity.

So actually, for me, there isn’t a choice between being comfortable in that expansiveness, you can support, Rangers, Celtic, St Mirren, you can support Manchester United, Barcelona. That’s this young generation – they feel that they can have it all.


We haven’t altered or edited out a single word. Is it us? Have we completely lost our minds, or did Gary Robertson really ask “Name me a country that’s narrowed its outlook after independence” and get the answer “It’s okay to support St Mirren”?

Maybe we’ve just been working too hard.

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    1. 18 03 15 23:53

      The Devo Files: Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) | A Wilderness of Peace

    155 to “Sometimes you have to write things down”

    1. Pedro says:

      Beans on toast.

      *well it makes as much sense as Douglas ‘Union Jock’ Alexander

      **none at all

    2. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      My colleague is a “Not sure” but prepared to listen. He is a diehard Buddy. This will float his boat…we have another

    3. Atypical_Scot says:

      Will there be a St Mirren FC in an independent Scotland?

    4. Tony Little says:

      Is there a St Mirren FC for Independence group? I think we should be told.

    5. jingly jangly says:

      What a load of mince!!!

    6. muttley79 says:

      DOUGLAS ALEXANDER: Well actually we’re in a distinctive position, in the sense we’re a historic nation but we’re part of a multicultural, multinational, multi-ethnic country, and’ –

      Is every state in the world not multicultural, multinational, and multi-ethnic though? It seems a bizarre thing to say. A Scottish state would be all of the previous as well. Alexander seems very confused.

    7. FletcherOfSaltoun says:

      Fantastic again rStuC!! Excellent!

    8. Andrew Davenport says:

      There is actually Tony — they even have a Facebook page 🙂

    9. gillie says:

      Forever known as the ‘St Mirren argument’, that is a person talking “mince” in answering a question.

    10. The weather in Leningrad is particularly inclement for the time of year.

    11. blunttrauma says:

      Maybe he’s been at the cinnamon and vanilla cider.

    12. Barry Blust says:

      Last evening we celebrated 100 years of the Inverclyde Festival. It was my first! I was blown away by the talent… so impressed that this thought came to mind, ‘England could never hold us.’ Obviously my feelings incorporate an expansiveness within Scotland that actually as been subdued within the UK.

      When I happily shared my feelings with a fellow chorister he bluntly said to me, ‘I’ll not be voting YES.’ While I respect that opinion, I cannot locate there a speck of logic.

    13. I thought that this was typical of the way that interviewers allow totally irrelevant answers to go unchallenged

    14. Creag an Tuirc says:

      So, can youngsters from Spain support Manchester United or do they have to be part of somethinhg bigger (the United Kingdom) to do so? He sounds like a slightly more eloquent Johann Lamont to me. Ask a straight-forward question and you get a meandering stream of irrelevant bullshit as an answer.

    15. Murray McCallum says:

      Has Helen Mirren been sainted? What has she got to do with football?

    16. Jimbo says:

      Yeah, but I’m asking you to back up this claim that an independent Scotland would be a narrowing not a broadening experience. Which country has that been the case in?

      Half past two.

    17. Derick faeYell says:

      gillie says:‘St Mirren argument’, that is a person talking “mince” in answering a question.

      Nailed it there, my man!

    18. Creag an Tuirc says:

      Jimbo, half past two makes more sense 🙂

    19. HandandShrimp says:


      “Of course I haven’t got a sodding example, there obviously isn’t one”

    20. sionnach says:

      Gillie (5.16) says: “the St Mirren argument”

      Love it – this one could run and run!

    21. was that the BBC asking a hard question?
      together with some grudgingly positive headlines in the Sundays, could be the report for the university on bias in the media has made an impact. let’s hope so.

    22. @chrismcc62 says:

      Overheard in work a number of years back.

      Nancy: Did you get get your milk this morning, Betty?
      Betty: Aye, my hearing’s a lot better, thanks.

      Can’t think why that came to mind.

    23. Creag an Tuirc says:

      Give him a bit of credit here. He didn’t go on to attack AS and the SNP as an answer.

    24. G H Graham says:

      Danny Alexander’s World of Logic (Explained)

      Q. Which barriers might be put up if Scotland choses independence?

      Danny Alexander: Well, lots actually. I mean how will young people, being used to being connected to the world using modern technology, possibly be able to claim support for Falkirk & Bolton Wanderers at the same time?

    25. Kendomacaroonbar says:

      I like Saint Helen Mirren. What an away gemme that would be 🙂

    26. G H Graham says:

      I meant Douglas (can you edit that?)

    27. Calum Craig says:

      Who does he think he is fooling?

    28. jingly jangly says:

      Anybody got an archive link to the Sunday Herald front page article today, I thought I had seen it earlier but cant find it anymore. No boats today as our newly refurbished boat has broken down so no newspapers

    29. orkers says:

      Nothing new when a politician answers a question he/she wasn’t asked. Thatcher was one of the early exponents of this technique.

      Funnily enough I can’t really recall either Salmond or Sturgeon doing this in an interview. Invariably the interviewer receives an answer, albeit at times in a round about way.

      Alexander is so oily you could wring him out and deep fry chips in the resulting liquid.

    30. Votadini Jeannie says:

      The caption made me howl!

    31. James Morton says:

      Panicked, the labour man decided that independence would be narrowing with regard to what football you support. 300 years of union & the best he could do was infer, rather clumsily, that Indy would leave us limited in what teams we support?

    32. annie says:

      Could this be his seagulls following fishing boats moment per Eric Cantona?

    33. Thejourneyman says:

      One of the hardest watches yet, reminds me of that 100 year old joke, “excuse me is that an apple or an orange you are eating?”

      “No you are right enough it’s a banana!”

      Wee Doogie badly needs some therapy sounds like he’s starting to suffer with “powerslippingawayitis”.

    34. Albert Herring says:

      “It’s okay to support St Mirren”

      I’ve heard it all now!

    35. Kendomacaroonbar says:

      Wee Dougie… the guy that accidently claimed 14,000 quid for double glazing on his expenses.

      I wonder how he explained that ?

    36. Murray McCallum says:

      Question to Douglas Alexander: If you could “have it all”, anything in the whole world what would it be? Remember – anything!

      Answer from Douglas Alexander: To support Stranraer FC and Crawley Town simultaneously.

    37. Brendan hynes says:

      Sounds like he is in training to become a Tory

    38. HandandShrimp says:

      Could this be his seagulls following fishing boats moment per Eric Cantona?

      Eric made a lot more sense and had a million times more charisma too.

    39. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Danny Alexander’s World of Logic (Explained)”

      Bit harsh blaming Danny for this one…

    40. Marcia says:

      Jingly Jangly

      I think this is what you were looking for;

    41. Kendomacaroonbar says:


      “Danny” is rhyming slang is it not ? 🙂

    42. Big Jock says:

      Its that old illogical unionists example that so many of them say without actually understanding the conclusion.I.E my son supports Man utd so why break up Britain see we are all the same.Using the logic :I love the Big Bang theory so would this be banned in an independent Scotland,does it mean I am American and Scottish,Should Scotland be run from Washington?In Alexanders case he somehow draws the conclusion that if you support Barcelona that makes you a world citizen not just Scottish.He mentioned supporting Europe at Ryder cup.Does he want the UK to be run from Brussels?

    43. Niall says:

      To be fair, there are a few countries that have gained independence from the UK alone, never mind the rest…

    44. Clarinda says:

      If ever a context for illustrating – discombobulate – was required, Mr Alexander has furnished us with a stunning example.

      Who knew that St Mirren might be responsible for the launch of Buddies Together? Has anyone told them about Mr Alexander’s scoop.

    45. handclapping says:

      … breaking up this country … What independence for Fife? Where do I sign up?

      OT Rev, what do you do to stop your mind turning to mush when listening to this kind of pish? Is it the animals, the rats, the emergency kitten? Do I need to kidnap the neighbour’s dog before attempting to consider anything from BT?

    46. ronnie anderson says:

      Alexander must have been the corner flag, on the centre spot at ST Mirren.

    47. Sunshine on Crieff says:

      I currently support St Johnstone and, my childhood team, Rochdale.

      On independence I will still support the Saints and the Dale.

      Please pity me now and for evermore.

    48. Red Squirrel says:

      Better Together random quotes generator stuck on gibberish setting again.

      (would be so good if they actually had one of those – who would notice the difference?)

    49. Murray McCallum says:

      “On independence I will still support the Saints and the Dale.”

      Living the dream. [But may be illegal]

    50. Kendomacaroonbar says:

      Let’s address this ‘breaking up the country’ pish.

      What exactly would be broken up ? Legal system, Education, NHS, Church are all seperate anyway… so what’s left ?

    51. The only thing that is narrowing are the odds.



    52. ronnie anderson says:

      Orkers5.32, an nay amount o H P sauce is gonna improve the


    53. Flower of Scotland says:

      Thanks Stu ! That’s a great piece ! However D Alexander and his ilk have let down the Scottish People for a long time . Scotland has always been a left of centre country and the SNP is socialist ! despite them being called Tartan Tories and other vile names , but I don’t feel so badly about Scottish Liberals and Scottish Tories because you know what they are about . However these Scottish Labour MPs and MSPs should hang their heads in shame ! They have been riding on the coatails of Scotland’s wish for a left of centre Government for too long ! Get them out people ! They make my blood boil !
      Hope people like Dennis Canavan can come through and send the Gravy Train on its way with dougie, Johann , Jackie , slimy Davidson and the rest of them on it !

    54. Bubbles says:

      @ handclapping

      “independence for Fife”. Your welcome to it.

    55. HandandShrimp says:

      I think they use this

    56. bunter says:


      Just thinking of recent BBC coverage by ommission, from their website this week. Nothing on UWS, nothing about the BAE statement on shipbuilding, nothing on UK statement on dual British/Scottish citizenship and nothing today on the ICM poll. That’s just last few days. (apologies if I missed them).

    57. Lisa Peebles says:

      This is the kind of bullet dodging non answer that turns young people off. And btw, WOS favourite Saffron Dickson is a lifelong St. Mirren fan 🙂

    58. HandandShrimp says:

      The poll is there and in relation to this very topic but not great reading for Douglas

    59. Jiggsbro says:

      Have we completely lost our minds, or did Gary Robertson really ask “Name me a country that’s narrowed its outlook after independence” and get the answer “It’s okay to support St Mirren”?

      Well, look, what young people are saying to me, overwhelmingly, is, look, we don’t have to think in terms of narrow answers. We want to be part of bigger questions, like will Forfar ever beat East Fife by 5 points to 4, which is why we’re better together as part of a bigger nation which doesn’t want to get any bigger or be part of anything bigger, because, look, we’re proud of who we are and we don’t want to be something else. And that’s why young, tech savvy people are rejecting separation in favour of connecting with people who agree with them.

    60. Sandy Milne says:

      A strange statement to make that the young generation will support Europe in this years Ryder Cup. I’ve past the half century in years and have supported Europe in the Ryder Cup for the last 35 years. I also supported team GB and GB & Ireland before that.

      All that said I have also appreciated the good grace and dignity of many US champions that have graced the fairways of these shores and beyond.

    61. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.

    62. heedtracker says:

      Also, with full independence from Westminster, will Scotland become the only country in the world that has two of its three major political parties working for and controlled by their Labour and Tory bosses in the London. And who in a post indy Scotland would vote for a Labour in Scotland party run by say future Labour PM Milliband in London?

      eg. Future PM Milliband tells future FM Lamont that independent Scotland has got to keep Trident and must pay for Trident 2. The list is endless but a future FM Lamont working for Labour in London raises a lot of serious constitutional problems now.

    63. AnneDon says:

      To be fair to Douggles, it isn’t the Better Together campaign that’s made him talk bland gibberish – he was like that before he ever got a seat.

      Typical student union product, though WTF he ever advised Gordon Brown on remained a mystery to me.

      Proceed directly from NUS Scotland to Labour seat. Do not experience a real job, patronise working people by pretending you care about their best interests.

    64. john king says:

      “The weather in Leningrad is particularly inclement for the time of year.”

      But the roses have been particularly fragrant,

      listen carefully I shall say zis only once. 🙂

    65. john king says:


    66. handclapping says:

      Lets be specific, everything East of the M90 so we get Kinross, Milnathort and Abernethy and you get Dunfermline.

      Kirkcaldy rules! OK?

    67. Andy-B says:

      Douglas Alexander gave that ludicrous reply, plain and simply because there is no country that’s had a narrowing of attitudes after gaining independence. Independence allows countries to spread their wings and open up to the worlds other nations.

      As for Mr Alexander mentioning St Mirren, maybe he wants Gary Robertson and himself to be buddies, St Mirren’s are nicknamed the buddies.

    68. ronnie anderson says:

      @Jiggsbro6.05, wuld Forfar beat East Fife 5 to 4, of course they wuld, Forfar,s goat awe the Bridie,s fur halve time an their no sharein.

    69. murren59 says:

      I’m a proud SinMurren fan so back off all this anti-Mirren stuff or ah’ll personally sort yeis aw’oot!

      Now Paisley has a lot to be ashamed about, namely: Bendy Wendy, Wee London LapDuggie, MP Sheridan and Cooncillor Kelly. The latter two bitter anti-independence ****ers who take Paisley pounds’n’pence to Parkhead to support one of the most nationalist teams in the world.

    70. Ian Brotherhood says:

      You’ll get more sense out of this:

    71. JLT says:

      Yep!!! That was what I said on one of the earlier articles on this site today. That was the moment that had me going ‘What? Eh!’

      I didn’t have a Scooby Doo as to what the f*** Douglas was talking about at the time, but from reviewing it, I think this is what he was trying to say…

      I can only assume in his flatulence of an answer, that he was talking about the wider world in general; that we are all in a multi cultural society which is tied and ingrained in a much bigger one (the Union or the EU …take your pick).

      However, at the point where he begins talking about footie teams, I think his brain tripped over itself (no, seriously), I think he had one idea about the sense of unity, but instead of mentioning countries, his brain befuddled itself and instead, came up with the idea of how a person can support one football team, but support others of a different nation ie as in …for me, Jamesie LT, I support Livi, but like Arsenal also. So even though I am a Scot, I support a Scottish team, but also an English one. Therefore, wisdom would dictate that I would be a supporter on the UK Union.

      It’s a nice try, but Douglas’s theory falls flat on its backside, because no matter should Arsenal win every trophy this season and was considered better than Brazil 1970 and Barcelona 2011 combined, I still want an Independent Scotland; just so that it can have the political and economic levers to decide what will be best in the interests of the Scots, and not what London wants.

      I think that was the point he was trying to make in his muddled and befuddled theory of an answer!

    72. john king says:

      “independence for Fife”. Your welcome to it.”

      We’ll waant oor ain currency mind!

    73. kininvie says:

      Twitter users: I’ve started a #stmirrenargument hashtag if anyone wants to have a bit of fun. Straight questions & surreal answers….

    74. Murray McCallum says:

      “I think his brain tripped over itself”

      Yes. A dive. A clear yellow card in my book.

    75. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Gary (Robertson) I think the answer you are looking for is two and six(pence)! 🙂

      Well it makes as much sense as anything Alexander has ever said in response to anything he’s been asked in my view! 🙂

    76. CameronB says:

      Perhaps he is trying to connect with the common man?

      T-shirt idea _ I’m Spartacus and I support St. Mirren

    77. Defo says:

      So, according to Dave, the debate is to be between Scots.
      Funny that. What’s this all about then?
      Let’s see Dave, or one of his Westmidden minions defend this.

    78. Craig P says:

      Wow. In an independent Scotland, young people will no longer be allowed to support Barcelona. Dougie’s sister Wendy once revealed similar impressive reasoning when she stated Scotland could not be independent because of bird flu.

    79. dinnatouch says:

      We’re all missing the most important point here … where does one get cinnamon-and-vanilla cider?

    80. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      The lovely irony is that Alexander and others actually think they’re making a case for the Union.

      Q: Can you back up you’re ridiculous claim?
      A: Can I fuck!

      That’s what the majority take from that.

    81. scaredy cat says:

      Reminds me of a book from childhood. perhaps he is providing the answers to questions posed by Dame Slap (character in Enid Blyton’s ‘The Folk of the Faraway Tree’)


      “Dear me, I have some clever children at last! she said. ‘You have written answers to all the questions.’

      ‘Then they are right?’ asked Silky, in wonder.

      ‘I don’t know,’ said Dame Slap. ‘But that doesn’t matter. It’s the answers I want. I don’t care what’s in them, so long as you have written answers. I don’t know the answers myself, so it’s no good my reading them.'”

    82. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Spend five minutes smoking dried toad and it all makes perfect sense.

    83. jingly jangly says:


    84. Horacesaysyes says:

      [i]kendomacaroonbar says –

      Let’s address this ‘breaking up the country’ pish.

      What exactly would be broken up ? Legal system, Education, NHS, Church are all seperate anyway… so what’s left ?[/i]

      Westminster! 😀

    85. Horacesaysyes says:

      Ooops, that didn’t quite work right, did it?

    86. Stuart Black says:

      “…cinnamon and vanilla cider”?

      Please tell me more! 🙂

    87. Jimbo says:

      Wee Dougie just didn’t have an argument for Scotland remaining as a member of the UK.

      All of the Unionist’s lies and scare stories are unraveling.

      It turns out we won’t be foreigners – we’ll have dual nationality.

      We will be able to build ships for the rUK on the Clyde.

      We will be able to use Sterling.

      We can’t be forced to take on Westminster’s debt.

      We won’t have to pay roaming ‘phone charges when we cross the border.

      What’s the best thing Better Together can now come up with? They get John Barrowman to tell us Alex Salmond is fat.

      BT had obviously put a great deal of thought into this, and decided that using this (prejudiced against fat people) statement in their campaign will convert a great many to the NO camp.

    88. Juteman says:

      I wonder if there is a Spanish Alexandro on the telly saying to Catalans, ‘if you vote Yes, then East Fife matches will never be shown again?’
      What a total plonker.

    89. TYRAN says:

      Considering Fife has massive Diageo distillery facilities…

    90. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Ooops, that didn’t quite work right, did it?”

      Pointy brackets, not square. THAT’S WHAT THE LIVE PREVIEW PANE IS FOR.

    91. G H Graham says:

      I’ve never inhaled or injected psychedelic substance so am having difficulty explain the hallucinogenic effects of Alexander’s puff piece. The last time I was transported to another world was when I was disproportionately absorbed by a repeat episode of Star Trek.

    92. The reality of the situation is that in the eyes of some people within the Scottish Labour Party the debate is not about their perception of a future Scotland. Their perception is about what will happen to the wider UK Labour Party should Scotland decide that it should become an indpendent nation. The logical consequence of independence to someome like myself who was an active trade unionist and a dyed in the wool Labour supporter until 1985 is that there would be very lttle likelihood of a Tory government in Scotland again, unless we ourselves decided to vote for it. Yet during the years of Tharcherism, which we never did vote for, we got a right wing Tory govenment is spades, which led to the destruction of our heavy industry and the economic ruination of many Scottish communities.

      My logic back in 1985 was that there was only one way that Scots could protect themselves and that was through independence. I could never understand my Scottish trade union colleagues who could not see this logic. Douglas Alexander’s inability to answer the question today was symptomatic of many in the Scottish Labour Party who know that the case for our independence is unanswerable, but they are prepared for whatever reason to place their loyalty to the UK Labour Party before what they know would be a fairer, more equal and more prosperous Scotland.

      I am also acutely aware that Douglas Alexander’s sister, Wendy, has been rather quiet on the question of independence. She once wrote privately to Jim Sillars to say that she saw the sense in the case for an independent Scotland inside the EU. Why has no Scottish journalist followed this up with her?

    93. Fiona says:

      It reminds me of the way the French Resistance used to communicate using a string of seemingly meaningless sentences which, to the innocent listener sounded like gobbledygook but to each cell was a coded command. Perhaps he went on air and had to mention a string of football clubs names as a coded command to the BT crowd. It would perhaps explain why we get a continuous stream of incoherent claptrap from some of them- I think they may have mislaid the codebook though!

    94. Jimbo says:

      @ Fiona

      Perhaps he went on air and had to mention a string of football clubs names as a coded command to the BT crowd.

      Ah, it all makes sense now, Fiona. He was probably telling the Ukok faithful the time and locus of the secret Unionist rally being held in Glasgow today.

    95. Franariod says:

      So much for keeping sport and politics separate, or is that just for athletics ??

    96. msean says:

      It was one of those gags where you have to mention as many football teams or football cliches during an interview, for a bet or a laugh with your mates.

    97. Murray McCallum says:

      “The last time I was transported to another world was when I was disproportionately absorbed by a repeat episode of Star Trek.”

      Ah yes, memories. When I had a penchant for Holt’s Anti-freeze that was my favourite journey. Used to flavour it with Opal Fruits. Very cosmopolitan. It’s not on amazon (yet).

    98. Dan Huil says:

      Pity Gary Robertson didn’t put his hand up to his mouth, Eric Morecambe-style, and cough, Arsenal!

    99. creigs1707repeal says:

      Can I no longer support Barcelona or Liverpool if we go indy? Dang!

    100. Marcia says:


      Are we going to get a BT version of Radio Londres?

    101. Jimbo says:

      I see this year’s Scottish Independence March and Rally is to be held in Edinburgh at 12 noon on Saturday, 30 August.

      I hope that this year they get a better venue than Calton Hill. Regardless of where the venue is I’ll be there and looking forward to it.

      Hopefully, since it will be the last major rally before the referendum, we can convince as many people as possible to turn up and fly a flag for Scotland’s future.

    102. Marcia says:

      o/t re the video above

      If anyone visits Arras in France for the WW1 commemorations you should consider a visit to were the French Resistance were shot during WW2. It is a haunting place but a fine tribute to the men and women who did not live to see the end of the German Occupation.

    103. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Aye, wee Dougie’s a class act – remember this?

    104. kalmar says:

      Scotland’s money used to be minted in Kinghorn donchaknow.

    105. call me dave says:

      Good find Marcia.

      Codes didn’t work for these two. ????

    106. Ian Brotherhood says:

      …but I’m sure we’d all agree with him on this one:

    107. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I believe the rally has been moved to 13th September – ie five days before D Day. Great if this is so!

      Can anybody confirm?

    108. Taranaich says:

      Well actually we’re in a distinctive position, in the sense we’re a historic nation but we’re part of a multicultural, multinational, multi-ethnic country…

      The implication, of course, is that Scotland would not be a “multicultural, multinational, multi-ethnic country” if it wasn’t part of the UK.

      Because certainly Scots literature & art was not influenced by French, Italian or Flemish creatives. Nor did we adopt anything in our cuisine or music or law from the Romans or Greeks. Nor is there any trace of Irish, Norse, Welsh or other such influences in our art. Nor did we have any major religious or social reformations, before 1707 opened us up to the Big Wide World.

      Certainly we did not have an Auld Alliance with France which was the longest-lasting alliance in Europe, one which granted dual nationality to all Scots with France, which lasted until the 20th century. And we most assuredly didn’t have any dealings with other countries: no expeditions to South America, no settlements in Canada, no migrants to Poland or Russia, before 1707 showed us there’s land beyond the sea.

      Certainly the very people of our country was not built upon successive migrations from Ireland, Norway, Wales, England and France, contributing to the Scots ethnoi before the nation was even created. Nor did Scotland see any migration from, say, the Low Countries, Northern Europe, or beyond, before 1707.

      Apparently we didn’t have any of that prior to 1707, and when that’s gone, we will continue not to have anything to do with the rest of the world.

    109. creigs1707repeal says:

      O/T Apologies.

      Were any of our WoS spies invited to this so-called BT Rally today? If not, why not? Have we all been ‘weeded’ out or is there some other explanation?

    110. edulis says:

      Wee Dougie will be first in the queue to get a seat given to him on the Labour list as an MSP come May 2016. The political life is his only life and any thought of having to go and work for a living as a solicitor would completely phase him. His tongue is his only strength even though he finds it difficult to engage with his brain. He does like the sound of his own voice and his ability to string sound bites together.

    111. Dramfineday says:

      Somehow Douglas’s reply reminded me of this response from Blazing Saddles:

      “Now who can argue with that? I think we’re all indebted to Gabby Johnson for clearly stating what needed to be said. I’m particulary glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age”.

    112. tom says:

      Is that wee ruthy in a suit, just blows as much rubbish.

    113. Ericmac says:

      Smoother than a snakes belly and twice as low.
      MPs are the scourge of democracy.

    114. thebunnyman says:

      well us saints fans would say: St Mirren Celtic Rangers 🙂

    115. mr thms says:

      By chance I clicked a link to The European Communities Act 1972. This the Act that ensures all subsequent UK Acts (including Acts passed by devolved administrations or governments) comply with EU law. It says –…s_Act_1972_(UK)

      “Territorial extent

      England and Wales; Scotland; Northern Ireland”

      I wonder if all of the UK’s EU Treaties and Acts have described the UK in the same way and if there is a legal requirement for doing it this way?

      It’s got me wondering if the UK joined the EU as –

      “England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland”

    116. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @edulis –

      ‘Wee Dougie will be first in the queue to get a seat given to him on the Labour list as an MSP come May 2016.’

      That’s not even funny.

      He should stay where he is, and hope to pick up something in or about the HoC – Father of the House’s Deputy Fart-Bottler or something similar would probably see him alright for another few years.

    117. Bill C says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill – YES it has been moved to 13th September Dave, here is link

    118. velofello says:

      Where does leave me as I don’t support any football team? Adding to my confusion my Norwegian Son-in-Law supports Arsenal sort of. Could be Douglas Alexander had a school dissertation on A Man’s a Man For O’ That, and misunderstood it!

    119. ronnie anderson says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 8.47, naw Ian FM / PM,no Sarwar / Davidson /Alexander, that,s them tryin tae wriggle their way aff the butcher,s hook, n gie Scot,s Lab MPs TV exsposure,naw cloud,s the issue,s ,wie mair in the debate.
      Salmond, Cameron.n nay wriggle room fur Cameron.

    120. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Taranaich 8.52,so whit your sayin is that we didna excist, you,ll need tae consult the history book,s, ( impartial wan,s )no they English history book,s,they re write history tae suit.

    121. Morag says:

      YES it has been moved to 13th September Dave, here is link


      Much good that is if you’re not a member of Facebook….

    122. call me dave says:

      A punter on the Scotsman comments (archived) says 2nd part of poll coming out tomorrow. Bad news for YES!

      Anybody heard that?

    123. Jimbo says:

      @ Bill C

      It says on Scotland’s big YES/No? Debate that it’s been confirmed as 30 August but they can’t seem to change the date on their FB page.

    124. ronnie anderson says:

      @Ian Brotherhood9.26, you can join in , What a Friend we have in Duggie All our care,s to share,he,ll take the burden fae oor shouder,s, an bugger aff back doon there,feel free to add to that folk,s ave done the hard bit, where,s Hazel.

    125. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ronnie –


      But the message is:

      “Alexander Says Cameron Can’t Run, Can’t Hide from TV Showdown.”

      Aye. That’ll do me.

    126. Murray McCallum says:

      New date for the rally. Is it a numerical puzzle?

      13/09/14: (13×9)+14 = 131
      18/09/14: (18×9)+14 = 176

      176 + 131 = 307 (2014 – 1707)

    127. Defo says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      “Father of the House’s Deputy Fart-Bottler”
      Quality !
      But doesn’t the monobrowed one have his eye on that post ?

    128. ronnie anderson says:

      @IanBrotherhood that bit ah dey want tae see Salmond/Cameron but,that,s the people in England tae get him tae debate,ah think it would be the, last gasp.

    129. ronnie anderson says:

      added tae that Ian we hiv tae turn round the MSM in Scotland.

    130. Thepnr says:


      Here is Gabby Johnson at his finest, I think your right.

    131. mario says:

      “Call me dave”.

      Would seem odd given today’s coverage. How “different” is the editorial between Scotsman and SOS?

    132. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Defo –

      I know where you’re coming from, and have heard similar rumblings to the same effect.

      However, I have it on good authority that Darling was himself ‘The Keeper of The Speaker’s Wind’ from 1983 until late ’87 (disputed – reference required).

      Having occupied that position (at no little cost to his posture and nervous disposition) he cannot, nevertheless, apply to be considered for any other posts ‘…whereby, in the daily performance of obligatory functions, the custody of a Right Honourable Member’s bodily extrusions is liable to impinge upon the affable machinations thereof and untoforth nonparseworthy.’

      In the event of a Yes vote, such strictures will become malleable, and, quite possibly, defunct. (Which isn’t to say that Darling isn’t the perfect man for the job.)

      That – I regret to say – is my understanding of the current situation.

    133. Thepnr says:

      Darlings next job is lollipop man at Bridgeton Cross, hope he can look after the weans better than he did the banks.

    134. call me dave says:


      Hi been away on wiziwig watching last two holes on the golf:

      But I guess your right… beware of traps good news-bad news.

    135. Defo says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood.

      Thanks for clearing that up. I suppose Darlings a shoe in for the ermine anyhoo, even if he doesn’t deliver the No. Services rendered to bankers, and all that. He might have the ‘honour’ of being the last Scot elevated to the lords, but in the post Yes new reality, that might turn into a last in, first out situation. When that happens, it’s probably best he keeps one of those second London homes he diddled.
      He could even top’n’tail with Foulkes, if thing’s get a bit tight. There should be redemption & forgiveness for most unionists (maybe the Rev could help here ?), but those two are beyond the pale.

    136. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Defo –

      You are very welcome. I always aim for clarity, and appreciate positive feedback.

      I like your suggestion that Darling could ‘top’n’tail’ with George Foulkes. As mentioned in a previous thread, the Hunterian Museum has (albeit unoffically) designated a massive jar in which to keep The Last Scottish Tory. As I understand it, they played safe, monitored the dimensions of all living Conservatives, and ordered a jar which could, in theory, accommodate Nicholas Soames.

      It might be worth asking them if they’d consider doing a Foulkes/Darling combo – quibbling over whether they’re really ‘Tories’or not is surely semantic.

      Science comes first! A kind of BOGOF – The Twa Last Tories for the price of one. The punters will flock, from near and far, in their droves…if we build it, they will come!

    137. John Lyons says:

      Young people CAN support St Mirren, Varcalona and Man Utd, but they can’t get a straight answer from a labour politician…

    138. Weedeochandorris says:

      Something about that man’s attempts at keeping his smooth ‘truththtttt in me, just truththtttt in me’ voice under control puts me right off. You can just see the effort at keeping up his fake front while he spouts off his lies about all the really good things that will happen if you just vote no. All that yummy jam tomorrow stuff. (Voice meant to be the snake in jungle book hangking off the tree branch trying to hypnotise Mowggli!)

      Our yougsters aren’t daft either. They saw in the past Clegg and all his promises to the students in Ruk about not raising student fees and what happened there. I’m sure they’ll have the measure of political ‘promises’ from people like Douglas ‘Windtalker’ Alexander.

    139. Defo says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood. No, thank you sir. I’m new to WoS, but a front line veteran on the hootsmon ect. I must say the ‘atmosphere’ here is far superior, but then we are mostly all singing from the same hymn sheet.

      As to your twin Tory/NewTory display, yes, they will come. For a while. The new Scotia however will evolve rapidly, when free from the shackles of bondage. Our grandkids will look poorly on us mocking these bastards, same as we look down on the Victorian fashion for visiting Bedlam for a laugh.
      In the meantime however, pickle away. You won’t need too much fluid for Foulkes though, he’s nearly 100% proof already.

    140. Ian Brotherhood says:


      If you’re up for it, we’re aiming for McGinn’s, Hope St, Glasgow on Friday April 4th.

      A wee civilised swally.

      Details yet to be confirmed, but 40-plus names (mostly WoS regulars) already on the list.

      If interested, please let me know via the ‘Quarantine’ thread, or message me directly at ian [at] stevenston4 [dot] fsnet [dot] co [dot] uk


    141. Steve B says:


      The Scotsman has indeed published the second part of its poll. However it seems from my quick look as if its only bad news for the LibDems and Labour in the European elections. The SNP have an approximate 19% lead over Labour and may gain an extra seat whilst the LibDems will lose their sole representative.

      It also has some results as to views on the EU and immigration which, without me checking, may be similar to those in the Social survey last week.

      Not a bad start to the week courtesy of the Scotsman 🙂

    142. Defo says:

      @Ian Brotherhood
      I’d love to join a few fellow traveller’s for a ‘swally’ mate, but mine has to be of the non alcoholic variety.
      I had to give up the juice nearly a decade ago, i’d downed enough for several lifetimes by the time I hit 40.
      It can be a bit off putting having someone in the company who doesn’t drink. I do enjoy the occasional ‘smoke’ however, which almost makes up for it. I’m off to work in France next week for a bit, but will be back for the 4th. Count me in, if non drinkers are welcome. Ta for the laugh earlier. “Fart bottler.” Quality! Goodnight, and may the Revs God go with you.

    143. call me dave says:

      Steve B

      Snap! Just posted similar on NNS. #:o)

      I’m in agony with shingles two months now, what’s your excuse for wandering about at this hour!
      Don’t answer. I’ll try bed again.

    144. john king says:

      “New date for the rally. Is it a numerical puzzle?

      13/09/14: (13×9)+14 = 131
      18/09/14: (18×9)+14 = 176

      176 + 131 = 307 (2014 – 1707)”

      Is that the same source as the one that proves beyond doubt that mankind did not in fact originate in Africa but Auctertool?

    145. Bigdrone says:

      I understand Gabby Johnson’s epistole more than the ferret’s. Classic front
      bench gibberish!

    146. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Defo –


      Bevvying not compulsory.

      Name duly added – confirmation of details will appear…eventually.

    147. Craig P says:

      creigs1707repeal: Can I no longer support Barcelona or Liverpool if we go indy?

      Correct. Only the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland gives you the special ability to support football teams outwith the Scottish leagues. You might pretend to support Barcelona or Liverpool after a ‘Yes’ vote, but Dougie Alexander will know the truth.

    148. Desimond says:

      Looking at Douglas there, he reminds me of the Penguin in Gregorys Girls…mindlessly wandering here there and everywhere.

    149. Murray McCallum says:

      John King asked
      Is that the same source as the one that proves beyond doubt that mankind did not in fact originate in Africa but Auctertool?

      That excellent research is partly credited, together with Glenbuck Cherrypickers FC being the best team never to have won the European Cup.

      It’s basically all about joining very widely spaced dots.

    150. Neil Craig says:

      Nothing new there.
      He’s a Labour politician and he didn’t answer a question.

      The unusual thing would have been if he had.

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