Something to hide
Alert readers may recall our last foray into Freedom Of Information requests, when a couple of weeks ago we belatedly received a peculiarly evasive response from Police Scotland with regard to a meeting in February between the then-Chief Constable, Deputy Chief Constable and the justice secretary Keith Brown.
We duly followed it up with an FOI to the Scottish Government for Keith Brown’s official diary on that day – just about the most mundane, run-of-the-mill request possible. We expected nothing remarkable, just a short list of meetings, fully corroborating what we were told by Police Scotland.
What we got was rather more intriguing.
Short version: “Sod off.”
It’s hard to exaggerate what an extraordinary reply that is. We asked for the most basic record of a government minister’s activities on behalf of the public, only to be told that in the public interest it had to remain a secret until five months after it happened, and some of it will still be a secret even then.
Whatever was he up to, and with who, that we can’t know about it?
The link we were directed to, incidentally, contains no information from 2023 at all. The most recent entries are for December 2022, almost four months ago.
It’s rapidly becoming very difficult not to come to the conclusion that some extremely shady goings-on transpired at the Scottish Parliament on 9 February 2023. Both Police Scotland and the Scottish Government have been bizarrely, inexplicably reluctant to provide any information at all about what was supposedly nothing more than a routine regular meeting between the police and the justice secretary, while refusing to deny the involvement of the then First Minister, just days before she suddenly resigned.
We’re sure the truth will come out at some point. But we couldn’t tell you when, and it won’t be for lack of trying to hide it by the people whose wages you pay.
The whole thing stinks!
Very interesting….
Who is Jonathan Thomson?
This really is interesting.
“Obfuscation”
noun:
1. The act of obfuscating or obscuring; also, that which obscures; obscurity; confusion.
2. The act of darkening or bewildering; the state of being darkened.
3. The act or process of obfuscating, or obscuring the perception of something; the concept of concealing the meaning of a communication by making it more confusing and harder to interpret.
They don’t help themselves by this tactic. It just makes more of us dig for the truth.
The truth from this will emerge.
Somehow I think Keith Brown knows a lot.
I suppose you have to begin trying to make educated guesses.
I would still want to know is it normal for the police to come to the legislature rather than scheduling visits to the actual directorate of justice to see the Cabinet Secretary with his supporting civil service staff.
Is it also normal practice for BOTH of these senior police officers to meet regularly with the Secretary for Justice?
However going back to the legislature idea, I take it all 129 MSPs have working offices there without exception and they’re all roughly the same. So Keith Brown’s office as an SNP MSP will be no different from any other MSP in any other party with the same amenities or lack thereof and so on. With that framing in mind, it doesn’t seem ceremonially right to me that the Secretary for Justice should meet the top police officers in the confines of an ordinary MSP’s office at the Scottish Parliament but…
what if the police were not there to meet Keith Brown Cabinet Secretary but Keith Brown deputy leader of the SNP and because there’s often a kind of parallel formality in such meetings, Keith Brown as deputy leader would attend a meeting with his Police Scotland ‘mirror image’ the Deputy Chief Constable and the Chief Constable would attend the same meeting with his own ‘mirror image’ in the SNP hierarchy which would be…
They work for us aye? LOL
.
Hi Stuart,
Sorry to burst a balloon on this, but BOTH Police Scotland AND Holyrood Regional Council (HRC) are notoriously obstructive about the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act requests (FOISA). What you have is fairly standard routine swatting away of any and all enquiries (if in doubt, take a look at their abysmal “Disclosure Logs”).
Both organisations treat the FOISA law with contempt because they know there are minimal to no fines and very little censure.
However, the fact your FOISA enquiries are coming up against the STANDARD obtuse behaviour from both these taxpayer funded organs does NOT mean you are on a hiding to nothing.
Au contraire mon ami.
Arreter la merde?
Rev Stu., it is fairly obvious you have very good sources on this and are close to announcing a denouement?
From this mere mortal with a source at Advocate level, separately corroborated from a senior rank source at Police Scotland, there are still sufficient honourable people in each profession who are utterly disgusted at the DISREPUTE the Murrells’ et al have dragged their professions through. Starting with the amateur attempt by the over-promoted dubious ex-solicitor from Dreghorn and her Borgen fan-girl obsession to FRAME the Rt. Hon. Alex Salmond.
As a result of the mysterious ways that the judiciary work behind the scenes in Scotland and the U.K., the coming days (maybe hours) are highly likely to see candidate number 3 from the NuSNP taken into one of Polis Scotland’s more comfortable facilities for an “interview under caution.”
To spare blushes and avoid canaptic fit of the gravy-bus mob, so eloquently described by one of the best articles Craig Murray has ever written, the Dreghorn Failed Minister will be “invited” and not “arrested.”
Yet.
The balance from the real power behind the throne is sorting out this bourach in the inimitable way that they have always deployed..
That means more noblesse oblige and far less nob au fromage that has plagued the woke-captured years of Sturgeon Menteith.
P.S. In case anyone missed it, here is some of Craig Murray’s best ever work…
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk
Archived here…
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Calling David Davis MP…….
I notice the paperwork PROUDLY highlights their
INVESTMENT IN PEOPLE boast, obviously someone within the Holyrood VICHY cooncil chambers is rippin the pish, as their REAL boast should be INVESTMENT IN OBFUSCATION and diversion certification
This public information pish about releasing documentation and information is just an excuse for the blocking of information that could and probably would bring these chancers down , and quite honestly I would hope that upon independence WE would demand and force this practice outlawed
Ruby @21 April, 2023 at 8:26 pm
What have I done wrong now?
Is it as bad as you claiming to be a ‘stalwart grammarian’ and not spelling semicolon correctly
=====
Nothing wrong, exactly.
But I’m sorry to deprive you of your touché moment.
Semi-colon is the correct , canonical, traditional spelling. The American neologism semicolon, without the hyphen, I regard as a grey punctuation squirrel gradually dispossessing our hyphenated native red.
There are some reactionary old buffers who even regard it as semi-literate (or semiliterate?).
She’s unusual…but so am i…
link to youtube.com
I have never seen arrogance more personified than on the face of the eighth-wit Yousaf. Sold a pup, the party falling down round his ears, every answer he gives to random questions dragging them deeper into the mud and muck and mire and fire…and yet he STILL keeps mentioning time after time after time after time that he is the FM! It’s all he ever says!
Spoiled, selfish, entitled brat Useless clearly still can’t believe he’s FM himself, can’t believe his ‘luck’ in being rewarded for loyalty to his arsehole manhater predecessor with the poisoned chalice. He STILL thinks it’s a great position to have, and that he deserves to have it!
“The party I lead…as First Minister…blabbedy blah hoopla…” A few moments after he starts talking in the video linked below, the first time he mentions being the ‘leader’ (of the lemmings going over a cliff of dawning reality) he sneers, a purely arrogant, ignorant, deluded disgusting facial gesture.
He really thinks he’s King Fucking Shit.
A serial failure, utterly unself-aware, STILL too dumb to know he’s been thrown to the wolves by a beardy spiv couple who’ve fucked off and left him the mess to clean up they left the party and country in…
…incredible.
The sooner the vapid, arrogant narcissist neophyte saprophyte is gone forever into the skip of regretted Scottish history the better, and if that means the seemingly utterly corrupt, high-school-teenage-girl-clique-run party goes down with him….so be it.
@Rev I see the Torygraph has picked up on your piece about Progress Scotland, link to archive.ph. No mention of Wings however.
The slow-motion supernova that signals the end of Nicola’s star gets brighter by the day.
Semiliterate looks awful in print. An absolutely gray woed lacking color.
But how many would recognize it Cynicus.
That’s the problem with systems (FOI) that are meant to be for us, the public, to keep those in power answerable to us. But when those systems are abused by those in power, who then is holding them to account? There is no mechanism for dealing with those who bend that system to their advantage. FOI in Scotland is like so many other systems and organisations etc in Scotland, it masquerades as the real deal. Its very existence flatters to deceive.
You’ll need to take that up with John Main. I don’t even know what a semi-colon is.
Is it a pronoun?
One of John Main’s pronouns perhaps?
There is a bright side. Humza Yousaf went happily to bed last night. He took one last look across his office before heading home for the weekend to relax with his family. There on his important desk was a big calendar. Friday 21st April was marked with a very big tick in thick green crayon. Another day had passed when no one in his Cabinet, and no one in the SNP leadership had been arrested by the police. Oh Joy!
(Only cloud on his horizon is that his private lessons in managing money, double-entry book-keeping, bank accounts, overdrafts, counting beyond ten, and the like are scheduled to begin next week.)
That letter is the definition of a cow pat. It’s all hard and shiny on the outside, but various hues of green and yellow on the inside. 7:
I note the use of the phrase ‘the public interest test’. I am wondering why the respondent saw fit to put it in single quotes. That makes it look as if there is no such criterion and they are making it up as they go along’
It certainly passes the ‘seat of the pants’ test
It’s a secret isn’t it?
Not for the masses.
These people have adopted and embraced all the deceitful, devious and despicable behaviour of the British.
I’m sure it was once “4 legs good, 2 legs bad”.
It is very clearly now “4 legs good, 2 legs better”.
A two year old could have told them that hiding things peaks interest.
Sir Humphrey would have been proud to create that script.
“Have you dealt with that little matter ?”
“Yes Minister”
Sorted.
The plot thickens.
And Jonathan Thomson is now involved.
If you’re hiding information from your employers you’re probably up to no go good. And you’re certainly not being transparent.
Did any of the ‘meetings’ take place in the nuSNP campervan ?
Us…We would like to ask you a question…
Them….Run..run away fast, I didn’t do it, nobody did it.
Us..But we just want to know..
Them…Aaargh! nothing to see no no nothing happened. Anyway it’s secret and not for you,
Tumbleweed rolls past, a small gust of wind stirs the dust.
Were the two senior cops in uniform when they visited the parliament? That might seem a superfluous question, but if they were in civilian clothes then it would hint that they didn’t want to attract attention to their visit. If the meeting was not a routine one with the Justice Secretary but was, as we suspect, a hastily arranged extraordinary crisis meeting with perhaps several players then the attire on the day of Livingstone and his deputy might be significant.
Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive.
You should appeal, but what’s interesting is that they have not advised you that you can appeal, or told you how to do this. There should be a standard paragraph at the bottom of the letter explaining this.
Respones to FOI requests should always be as clear and helpful as possible.
Even before Rishi and Jack destroyed the Nasty Party with their use of Section 35 (to the amazement of Sturgeon), David Davis had come very close, by using Parliamentary Privilege,to reveal much about the goings-on with Mr Salmond. Given that Davis has a friendship across the political divide with Mr Salmond, I hope the Rev is able to tap him for more. Meanwhile, keep up the good work,Sir.
All this needs is an unsolved murder and the whole affair reads like the plot to an Ian Ranking novel. Given how much of his stuff is about corruption in high places and the nefarious doings of the rich and powerful he must be taking extensive notes for a new Rebus novel in which he not only has to investigate a crime but also police corruption, even amongst those in the police whose job is to investigate police corruption! The layers of cover up and silence are geologically thick!
Desperate stuff indeed. What is more disturbing is that many in Scotland believe the Westminster is the real Beelzebub lair. The Scottish government make them look like saints. I cannot imagine at anytime a report like the one just released re: Raab bullying being carried out by the Scottish government as they do not know how to be truthful with the voting public. There will never be true transparency under the SNP as they have to many skeletons in the cupboard and that’s a sad day for Scotland.
It is truly depressing that the rev is the only one in this country prepared to lift the stone and expose the corrupt vermin lurking underneath.
Where have all the good men and women gone.
Oneliner says:
22 April, 2023 at 7:27 am
I note the use of the phrase ‘the public interest test’. I am wondering why the respondent saw fit to put it in single quotes. That makes it look as if there is no such criterion and they are making it up as they go along’
—
The public interest test is real. See section 2 of the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002.
The general right to be given information applies only where “…the public interest in disclosing the information is not outweighed by that in maintaining the exemption.”
—
Stoker says:
22 April, 2023 at 6:20 am
That’s the problem with systems (FOI) that are meant to be for us, the public, to keep those in power answerable to us. But when those systems are abused by those in power, who then is holding them to account? There is no mechanism for dealing with those who bend that system to their advantage. FOI in Scotland is like so many other systems and organisations etc in Scotland, it masquerades as the real deal. Its very existence flatters to deceive.
—
Decisions such as that above are appealable internally, and from there to the Scottish Information Commissioner. That would – at the least – require the Scottish Government to justify to the Commissioner the public interest in applying the exemption.
OT.
Might make me a bad person, but I’ve got a new favourite video.
Succinct, educational, and encapsulates China’s foreign policy to the US and Taiwan, all in 7 seconds.
link to twitter.com
Those of sensitive disposition, brace yourselves…
When I moved to Scotland 17 years ago, I was proud to live in the country that gave birth to the Enlightenment.
Now I’m ashamed of its government, the party that pretends to represent Scots and even too many of those Scots.
For a moment I thought if it was proper to capitalise that qualifier.
Between deeply ignorant unionists, brown-nosing royalists and delusional cultists with a genderwoo-woo penchant, the majority of folks are a disappointment.
Sorry, I have standards. But don’t have the time nor the crayons to explain them to an audience of two-digit IQ holders. I’ve got more compelling things to do.
Stu, I hope you spend my monthly contribution on something that can soothe your soul the same way it satisfies me when I see the DD notification from my bank.
I wonder if that topcop resigned because he was caught feeding information about an on-going police investigation to the spouse of one of the suspects (or to a suspect herself).
Maybe he was even trying to undermine that investigation.
Sturgeon resigning paused the police investigation and gave them weeks to destroy evidence if there was any, allegedly.
Was she told in advance that pause in the investigation would definitely happen if she resigned?
This is definitely something she could have been advised to do by topcop to buy some time for housecleaning activities and such like…
Something really motivated her to resign in a hurry.
For Ruby (6.41am)
Here is Penguin on the ‘red squirrel’ of Cynicus (3.58am):
“Since it first appeared in the work of Italian scholar and printer Aldus Pius Manutius the Elder in 1494, the semi-colon has undergone wilder fluctuations in approval than perhaps any other punctuation mark. And it’s still widely misunderstood to this day…”
“…the semi-colon is commonly used to link together two independent yet related clauses, as in this sentence: “The line didn’t quite feel complete; it needed something else.” It’s particularly useful for juxtaposition, as in “I love jazz; my partner prefers folk.” They can also replace commas in lists where commas already exist to avoid complication (“On her holidays, she would visit Paris, France; Rome, Italy; and Berlin, Germany”), and in places where a comma would create a splice.
“That it is misunderstood is not an original notion. Just five sentences in, the Wikipedia page for the semi-colon refers to it as “likely the least understood of the standard marks”.
“But its value, when it is used correctly, feels obvious. In the Oxford Dictionary of English, which refers to it as “a punctuation mark indicating a pause, typically between two main clauses, that is more pronounced than that indicated by a comma”, we get closer to the semi-colon’s real value, and true beauty: the semi-colon, more elegantly than any other punctuation, expresses time”.
Footnote:
Red squirrels are on the increase in Scotland thanks to the reintroduction of the pine marten.
Perhaps Mr Brown and his boss were visited in relation to Operation Branchform*? With the personal rather than directly government nature of such a meeting accounting** for the reluctance to elaborate?
Awareness that the visit had piqued interest, or that follow-up appointments might be more formal, or should be more formal, could conceivably explain the later actions of both police and First Minister.
Alternatively, senior police may simply meet with specific politicians multiple times a day, much as Ms Wark implied that the former FM and Geoff Aberdeen did? (Since Ms Wark wouldn’t dream of revealing the identity of a discredited complainant in the Alex Salmond case. Which was the only OTHER possible reading of Ms Wark’s article.)
*Press take note
**An apt word perhaps
The system really needs upgraded, with a citizens jury of 100 or so, to review these decisions and ensure the ACTUAL public’s interest is reflected in them.
Was that a new poll being referred to on radio today, or an older one?
It is really hard not to believe the resignations of the topcop and Sturgeon are heavily connected.
If it became clear topcop had been actively undermining one of his own police force’s investigations that could explain him having to resign ‘early’, or ‘suddenly’ as I prefer.
Sturgeon being told she would be arrested and that she could buy time by resigning is certainly very plausible for her own sudden resignation.
And if Topcop was the one who told her that, and his treachery was then known in Police force, then that could explain why he had to resign suddenly as well. As he had completely ‘lost the dressing room’ at that point.
A lot seems to centre around this mysterious day of mystery.
But of course it is in the ‘public’s interest’ not to know shit. That is obvious isn’t it.
This, from Wiki, ‘The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Jobs and Fair Work was a position in the Scottish cabinet until June 2018.
The Cabinet Secretary had responsibilities for the Scottish economy, infrastructure, trade and investment, business, industry, employment, trade unions and energy.
The Cabinet Secretary was assisted by the Minister for Business, Innovation and Energy and the Minister for Employability and Training.
The post was abolished in June 2018, with the “economy” part of the brief moving to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Economy and Fair Work and the infrastructure responsibilities moving to the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity.[1]
The only Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Jobs and Fair Work was Keith Brown, who was appointed in May 2016. ‘
In Nov/Dec 2016 Gupta/Lochaber Smelter deal went through.
If the Chief Constables visit to oor Keith was to forewarn that a major enquiry was coming and they could no longer stop it, and basically prompt him to start doing a clean up…. then the above reply to your FOI may have less to do with covering up that particular meeting, and everything to do with who else he met on that day, and for what reason.
So, there is an acknowledged ‘public interest’ in disclosure, but it has been decided by the Scottish Government that there is a greater ‘public interest’ in allowing the government ministers to hide what they have been up to. I am sure that they reached that decision in an unbiased manner as befits those entrusted with leading our country.
Given the series of resignations triggered by that meeting, the truth will out. Scotgov would be better to try and lance the boil and get it all out there now rather than drip feed all the bad news so that it is constantly in the media. I suppose if secrecy and shady dealing is your stock in trade, that is not easy to do.
I think Sturgeon’s sudden resignation was very much intended to pause the police investigation and buy time before the police searches were conducted. The suddenness of her resignation is the big clue.
And if Sturgeon knew in advance that the pause in the police investigation would happen then someone high-up in the police must have told her it would.
Sturgeon very much exploited her unique position as FM to do this.
Not many other people could cause a police investigation involving their spouse and themselves to be paused just by resigning their day job but Sturgeon as FM could and she did, allegedly..
Mac says on 22 April 2023 at 9:46 am:
“Sturgeon being told she would be arrested and that she could buy time by resigning is certainly very plausible for her own sudden resignation.”
Genuine question: Why would resigning buy her time?
I would have thought that anybody deemed to be of questionable value in a possible crime investigation could be arrested at any time regardless of employment status. I’m honestly not following the logic here.
Den says: 22 April, 2023 at 9:06 am
“Desperate stuff indeed. What is more disturbing is that many in Scotland believe the Westminster is the real Beelzebub lair.”
Oh, it most definitely is. Holyrood is simply the devoted child raised by wolves in a faith where dishonesty, corruptibility and rote management are the central tenets.
“The Scottish government make them look like saints.” Hardly! The Scottish Government make them look careless.
“I cannot imagine at anytime a report like the one just released re: Raab bullying being carried out by the Scottish government as they do not know how to be truthful with the voting public.”
…And you seriously imagine the carefully-sanitised report on Raab is open and honest? As appalling as it is, it’s weak and watered down for the purposes of damage limitation; it fails in this respect, but still; it is what it is.
“There will never be true transparency under the SNP as they have to many skeletons in the cupboard and that’s a sad day for Scotland.”
There will never be any true transparency under any of the wholly self-serving, self-aggrandising, rote-managing moral bankrupts that currently infest politics and public service generally. Why would there be? – The first step towards fixing that remains divorce from the malignancy of Westminster.
Hypothetically speaking, Had Nikla still been First Minister during a major, international, financial enquiry, then any search warrant would have included her MSP and FM’s office and included Government documents.
Had any person replacing her, been connected to any type of financial governmental dodgy dealings, that problem (direct access to all the Government docs) would have continued.
Hypothetically speaking, they would need some kind of patsy who had absolutely no involvement what so ever, and not the slightest bit of nous about them to go looking for it once in power.
No wonder Katie looked so relieved and Ash had no chance.
One possibility…
In my experience dealing with the Scottish Government means dealing with individuals who conduct their daily business with much of the mindset of primary school children. – And that is encouraged in the manner of Siphonaptera, by the ‘painting by numbers’ (i.e. rote) managers and ‘management structures above them.
These responses strike me very-much as typical of the ‘school bullies’ throwing their intellectually-inadequate weight around.
‘public interest test’
There are a lot of questions around this “test” and it would be nice if the Scottish Government actually answered them:
1. what exactly is this test and where can we find how it works; how it is calculated; its context of application; its rules of application and its scope
2. who established this test, in which capacity, how, why and what for
3. Who applies this test – is it a particular committee or is any civil servant with a vested interest in the information being suppressed.
4. Who authorises the application of this test and therefore actively triggers the suppresion of information from the public
5. Who corroborates independently that this test has been correctly applied, in other words, who controls the controller and ensures this is not just another example of abuse of power to suppress information from the public
6. what are the key criteria that trigger the requirement of the application of this test, who chose those criteria and who determines those criteria have been met.
7. Why hasn’t all that information regarding the need of this test included in the letter to demonstrate the application of this “test” is legit and not another excuse to suppress uncomfortable information
8. Who other than the public themselves has the right to determine if something is in the public interest or not when their organisation has a vested interest in the information being suppressed.
9. Who is Johathan Thomson and in which capacity is he writing that letter – is he a civil servant, is he the receptionist, the janitor, is he the PA of a cabinet member or a civil servant, and why his job title, department and contact details have not been included in the letter.
Now, in the letters from the SGov there is reference to “regular meetings” between the Chief Constable and Keith Brown. Well, wouldn’t be interesting to see the dates of those regular meetings to see if they follow a [articular pattern (let’s say they are monthly, 6-weekly, etc) and if that meeting in February is out of pattern?
I did a google search and found they had a meeting on Thursday 22 September 2022. The DCC was also present. Within the descriptors of that meeting in September, the “Key Points” Section says: “The regular meetings provide opportunities to discuss current policing issues and matters of interest”
Nice. So what matters of interest were discussed on the 9th February if this was a “regular meeting” as they claim it to be?
A google search also reveals a FOI request regarding “How many times has Keith Brown MSP, in his capacity as Justice Secretary, met with the Chief Constable of Police Scotland in the calendar years 2022 and 2023”
link to gov.scot
And that meeting on the 9 February 2023 looks out of pattern for two reasons:
1. they met just the day before – there is only another instance within the list where the chief constable and Keith Brown met in two consecutive days and that was in May 2022,
2. The meeting took place in Parliament. There are only another two times when these “regular meetings” took place in Parliament, those are the meetings of the 22 November 2022 and the more recent meetings on the 22 March 2023.
So, indeed, what are they trying to hide?
The corruption stimks. They have lost all.koral authority! Keep scrutinising. They are upntontheirnnecks in this. They are our employees. Something they have forgotten.
Steep Brae @ 9:19
The semi-colon is used in Greece as a question mark.
ABruce 10.47am
Really?
Jings!!
SteepBrae
Yes
I hope these people never have need of dental treatment.
The longer you put it off, the worse it gets.
@Cynicus 3:58
You’ve left a space before one of your commas.
A third post containing errors from a stalwart grammarian will lead me to believe you are being held hostage and are being forced to post under duress.
Maybes I’ve read too many spy novels.
Haven’t read all the comments so maybe someone else has already noted that it was on 7 Feb that it was reported that Humza Yousaf and his wife had dropped the litigation against Broughty Ferry nursery. Something already afoot?
link to news.stv.tv
The Financial Times got the run around with their FOI requests. They appealed it and won. What then came out, was that ScotGov knew the grounds of their refusal of the FOI was likely to be thrown out if appealed, and they co-ordinated some of their replies to the Financial Times with the Gupta group, in order that they both sang from the same hymne sheet.
I’m not sure the date when they published that story, but from memory I think it was a year ago, possibly ties in with one of Mia’s dates. Sorry not able to dig further as other stuff to do today.
I wonder if the same FOI request was submitted for other ministers, say, for example, Nikla, John Swinney, Fergus Ewing, if the same response would be given.
I also wonder, if it might be worth liaising with the Financial Times in relation to this, as they were somewhat indignant re their treatment. Appreciate that as a working relationship it might be fraught with difficulties.
SteepBrae says:
22 April, 2023 at 9:19 am
For Ruby (6.41am)
?Here is Penguin on the ‘red squirrel’ of Cynicus (3.58am):
“Since it first appeared in the work of Italian scholar and printer Aldus Pius Manutius the Elder in 1494, the semi-colon has undergone wilder fluctuations in approval than perhaps any other punctuation mark. And it’s still widely misunderstood to this day…”
“…the semi-colon is commonly used to link together two independent yet related clauses,
……..?Footnote:?Red squirrels are on the increase in Scotland thanks to the reintroduction of the pine marten.’
=====
Thank you for that: a pine marten of a comment!
Can this decision be appealed to the Information Commissioner?
Surely there is a good public interest case to do so?
John Main says:
22 April, 2023 at 11:37 am
@Cynicus 3:58
You’ve left a space before one of your commas.
A third post containing errors from a stalwart grammarian will lead me to believe you are being held hostage and are being forced to post under duress.
Maybes I’ve read too many spy novels.
=======
Two other possibilities: I am the Tailor of Panama; the malign spacing influence on punctuation marks of Jacob Rees-Mogg.
‘Between deeply ignorant unionists, brown-nosing royalists and delusional cultists with a genderwoo-woo penchant, the majority of folks are a disappointment.’
It’s easy to get ‘black pilled’ (very negative) when looking at the state of the population and the prevailing mentality, lack of awareness, intuition and basic common sense.
I still get frustrated but more and more I see people as victims not just of unrelenting propaganda, but psychological abuse, mis-education and information smoke screens that confuse issues.
The major components of where we are today:
1 – a steady effort to undermine anything solid for people to put their back up against when things get difficult, something like an ideological anchor, whether it be real identity based on ethnic, religious, historical or any other grouping. Everything that might give the ordinary person lost in the chaos a sliver of actual real identity, and common ground with their neighbour, has been made ‘cringe’ and unfashionable or even illegal, including down to expressions of traditional gender.
The academic structure for this I think was begun in the 20’s in Germany and the theoreticians moved to America once they were found to be very unwelcome. It is a big topic though and the only real thing that needs to be taken from it is that it was very deliberate and was a tool for the deconstruction of robust nations.
The Scottish Nationalist movement has been very much infected by this, so much so that we have had to endure an almost cringe apologetic facade of actual nationalist spirit that has spawned politicians but not the leaders we really need i.e leaders who act to show the way and do not just pander to a demoralised and propagandised public’s misguided sentiments and ‘international consensus’.
The people who are shaping our world now understand the power of symbols, historic figures and emblems and the danger of allowing people to feel good about using them
2 – while our sense of heritage was degraded enough to the point where the ordinary person has only a weak affinity for it an absolutely artificial zeitgeist has been imposed that applauds and uplifts the expressions of nonsense identities that we, and especially our children, are encouraged to take upon themselves.
Our history is evil, our heritage a fallacy, our ethnicity (and ours alone mind you) non existent, our opinions that don’t conform are the result of implicit bias for which children need indoctrination against.
Over all this we have constant misinformation being fed through mainstream media channels and publications, text books, documentaries etc.
That’s the attack on people’s minds and its been very effective. Now we for the last number of years have seen the physical manifestation of what is planned for us coming to bear.
In short the ordinary person is under assault on a daily basis from all sides and we have virtually no intellectual elite (Alf Baird an exception) working to form a framework of understanding that can help the ordinary man and woman think their way out of it and help them to spot the contradictions and the brutal hostility that lies beneath it all.
The most important big picture component of all this that must be understood is that what is happening to us is happening to all nations of European descent.
People simply need to be shown that all the shit we are having rammed down our throats right now is designed to destroy us and our tolerance is not an option. Once someone realises the utter hostility behind all of it there is far less room for debate on the way to move forward or indeed the urgency to do so.
Jonathan Thomson’s reply appears, to me, to decide what is and is not in the public interest. Who is he?
My personal instinct is always to question these summary and apparently politically compromised decisions though there may not be any option for me to challenge them.
The clear warning is against a prejudiced MSM (Channel 4 et al) in thrall to Sturgeon and her cadre becoming used to not challenging or questioning things and that cadre then becoming used to that so that it becomes normal and entirely routine for what they decide to not be challenged or questioned.
Add to that the deeply distressing concept of a justice system (the ultimate arbiters) equally in thrall and discretely different to UK as a whole with potentially unhealthy connections to Scottish government and you have serious, serious problems.
My deep fear is that much the same is happening in Wales but we do not have a discretely different justice system though the usual suspects are campaigning for one.
Between block and follow says: 22 April, 2023 at 11:44 am
“Haven’t read all the comments so maybe someone else has already noted that it was on 7 Feb that it was reported that Humza Yousaf and his wife had dropped the litigation against Broughty Ferry nursery. Something already afoot?”
It is a boat that sailed some time ago… no less noteworthy for that. Personally, I am of the opinion that one of the main issues with Yousaf is that he is a is a racist; racism being a multi-lane superhighway and not a one-way street; we’ve already heard his ‘white, white, white’ rant…
The action was indeed plainly baseless – and designed to whip up racial/class tension not only between white people and other ethnicities; but the largely well-integrated, peaceful and progressive Indian community. ‘Divide and rule’ being a tool fondly grasped by the corrupt; the parallels with how the old Catholic/Protestant divide was/is emplaced and manipulated to keep the Gadgies down, are brought to mind.
To me Yousaf represents a form of ‘Bulligndon lite’. – A not-particularly bright posh boy, with no useful trade or profession to his name, a degree in ‘nothing-in-particular’, parachuted in to high office through the influence of frankly dubious ingroup connections. – It’s an almost-text-book recipe for corruption.
As a member of a very much multi-cultural family (of long standing; since the 1960s!) racism particularly disgusts and offends me; no greater offence being the racism directed towards others by those who embrace and encourage the unavoidable community division brought about by race (or for that matter class) based enclaves; and the assertion of power of one group by another.
It would appear the owners of the nursery acquitted themselves with some dignity and patience. The Yousafs? None. – Deeply unpleasant people in my view.
Cheers you are too kind! ‘Thank you emoji with big eyes, very long lashes & pouty crimson lips’
Here’s something I learned about the semi-colon from Google. ‘Brain emoji’
Semicolons are too formal for casual correspondence; use a period instead. Remember that you never have to use a semicolon in a sentence. ‘Party popper emoji’
Emojis are the new punctuation.
I just wish Wings had a more up to date list of emojis. ‘Folded hands emoji’.
You’ll be pleased to know that I know all about the colon and that unlike the semi-colon it’s used on a very regular basis in this digital age. ‘Nerd Face Emoji’
I’m talking about the colon used in punctuation (one period on top of the other) and not the colon as in colonoscopy. ‘Ooch emoji’
It’s all very fascinating. Got any info about the period? ‘The Period Emoji’
Did you know that in some countries ‘red squirrel’ is a euphemism for a period? ‘Chipmunk emoji’
This is quite a dull post! Just think how bright & colourful it would be we had more emojis.
A UK spellchecker would also be handy. ‘Santa Emoji’
Who gives a toss about colon’s or semi-colon’s.
Unless it’s bleeding I don’t!
@Joe
See my post re statue in the previous thread. It is the same war being fought on multiple fronts.
An eye opener for me was conversations I had with an ex gf and one of her friends independent of each other. Their attitudes towards immigration into their ethnic and cultural homeland were a one hundred and eighty degree turn from their demands with regard to the immigration policies of the West and for all of the reasons that they wish to see laws imposed to prevent us from demanding for ourselves, culture, race, religion, bloodline.
Ruby
Got any info about the period
/
I like how you have combined the discussion on grammar with that on trans.
By the way, you could have pulled SteepBrae up on his use of the comma.
1/ I always thought you didn’t need one following an ‘and’.
2/ You need one before quotation marks.
robbo says:
22 April, 2023 at 1:42 pm
Who gives a toss about colon’s or semi-colon’s.
Unless it’s bleeding I don’t!
======
You DO need colonic irrigation- of those apostrophes.
Ruby 1.20pm
Not dull at all although it could be argued that the subtleties of good, old-fashioned punctuation beat the ‘in your face’ emoji sentiments hands down every time.
A bit like vocabulary and ideas: if you don’t have the vocabulary, you can’t express the ideas or even form the thoughts in the first place.
Not unconnected, Cynicus at 12.20 makes you wonder what le Carré would have thought about unfolding events here as people “still say the right things at all times, even if the right things were in one place, and the truth was in another”.
Scot 2.02pm:
Well spotted. ‘Tsk’ to the Penguin writer of that quote for using a comma before a dependent clause.
Not the grammar polis here but it’s worth mentioning that there are occasions when a comma can be used before ‘and’ and that omitting the comma before quotation marks can sometimes help the flow of the text and needn’t be a punishable offence.
Now, in the case of the apostrophe in a plural noun…
Hi Scot
Good to see you back. You’ve been on the naughty step for a long time.
Ellis is still in a huff so you shouldn’t be provoked into using the c word.
I couldn’t pull anyone one up for bad grammar/punctuation/spelling bad behaviour or swearing and even if I could I don’t think I would want to.
Oh hang on! Why have you got a forward slash after your numbers. It should be a period or if you wanted to keep the American’s happy a hashtag before the number.
Hey ‘forward slash/back slash/right slash/left slash’ are really strange phrases, which neatly takes me back to the mystery of ‘women’ in the gents toilet having a slash.
Yes I admit I am a one trick pony specialising (FFS here you go US spellchecker ‘specializing’ happy now)
in trans issues & and all things ‘toilet related) ‘Poo emoji’
Following shortly a post on ‘Toilet-related injuries and deaths’
Get your excuses ready as to why you leave the toilet seat up and cause these toilet related injuries & deaths.
SteepBrae says:
22 April, 2023 at 2:34 pm
Ruby 1.20pm
A bit like vocabulary and ideas: if you don’t have the vocabulary, you can’t express the ideas or even form the thoughts in the first place.
You must be referring to the written word.
What sort of vocabulary would you need for this idea:
link to twitter.com
Maybe just enough vocabulary to give it a title.
What about:
‘Baby sucks on dummy tits’
Any better suggestions?
Ruby 3.18pm
How about:
“Baby Sues Beardie In Malnutrition Test Case”
Thanks Ruby.
I’m not that Scot, just a Scot.
Your point on my sex’s propensity to leave the toilet seat up thereby causing injury is a good one. It is one more reason why males should never enter the ladies toilets.
robbo says:
22 April, 2023 at 1:42 pm
Who gives a toss about colon’s or semi-colon’s.
=================
Apart from your ‘colon’s’ and semi-colon’s’, it seems you also don’t give a toss about putting a question mark at the end of a question either!
They have a lot to hide because if they were not breaking the law they were breaking the rules.
Rev. Stuart Campbell, expose all the corrupt criminals in the State of Scotland.
Don’t let anyone of them get away with their lies and crimes.
So here is my conundrum.
The tip off and the advantage for Humza is all great stuff with lots of potential.
Will Douglass Ross ask Humza when he was first told Nicola was going.
Will he ask if the matter was disclosed during the police visit.
As many questions around the secrecy of the meeting as you can think of.
If he does not kick in this open gate why not?
Is it park of keeping Humza in place with a view to using it later at an election
It is the unionists covering their plant
Are the unionists now supporting the SNP as a foil to Salmond.
In short why would Ross not exploit this
RE: the toilet seat conundrum.
When you enter a cubicle or bathroom with a WC, you should find both the seat and the lid in the down/horizontal position.
If you’re gonna stand and urinate, you lift both the lid and the seat.
If you’re gonna sit for whatever, you only lift the lid.
Before you flush, you should return the lid and seat to the horizontal position. It’s only good manners on the one hand and, on the other hand, have you seen the videos showing the fine mist that sprays out of an open WC when it’s flushed?
For your own health’s sake, the lid and seat should be closed before you flush – and left closed. Why lift the lid or seat after you’ve flushed?
Should have added these before I hit “Submit Comment”.
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
This transparency data can accessed via this weblink…which is about as transparent as a black hole!
If there was a tip off, then that would mean collusion, which would make all those involved guilty of criminality. Surely not a case of: we need to destroy/hide the evidence, resign en masse, and ensure the continuity candidate wins to keep the evidence buried? What other conclusion can be drawn when they are being so evasive? It is the same tactic as Brexit, do nothing meaningful and the more time that passes the harder it is to do anything about. I think that is the reason for the (circus) tents in the garden – staged theatrics to make it look like the police are doing something, when in actual fact they aren’t doing very much at all except keeping up the pretence.
I’d hazard a reasonably educated guess that the provided response wasn’t written by anyone with any great authority or with the power to hide anything nefariously. In fact, it looks like a classic cut & paste job from a standard template interspersed with a few lines of their own using some poorly worded sentences and structure by someone trying to sound more intelligent than they are.
Two exemptions apply here, both of which are detailed/explained in the link below (along with many others), but perhaps focus should be put on the key phrase – “public interest test” – what is that and who decides how it’s applied?
Given the likely lowly position of the responses author, while the list provided isn’t exhaustive, I’d wager a bet they don’t stray too far from the examples provided when assessing how to approach a FOI. It’s a dry read, but “if” this is what staff at the FOI dept are working to, then I’d say there’s some very interesting points to be taken from it –
link to itspublicknowledge.info
Ref : Mia post 21/4/23 10.32am
“A google search also reveals a FOI request regarding “How many times has Keith Brown MSP, in his capacity as Justice Secretary, met with the Chief Constable of Police Scotland in the calendar years 2022 and 2023”
link to gov.scot
Interestingly, the full list of 20 engagements shown in the referenced response are listed in chronological order, with one exception :
7 September 2022
27 July 2022
15 June 2022 **
22 June 2022
25 May 2022
Maybe the 15 June meeting should read 15 July, and this is just an ‘unfortunate’ typo which escaped the checking process ? Or maybe a meeting WAS held on 15 July which is now troublesome to record?
The Murrells had weeks of advance notice the search was coming. Facilitated by Honest Nicky’s sudden resignation.
Burner phones and sim cards… come on they must all be long gone.
RE Jonathan Thomson:
I wouldn’t be too surprised if this turned out to be an ‘office name’ and there isn’t anyone with that name who works for the Scottish government.
Patrick Roden at 12.09 today, ref. Jonathan Thomson:
You could well be right. I dare say Jonathan Thomson is a less vulgar incarnation (possibly green?) of John Thomas aka Throckmorton.
In answer to Shug,
Somewhere in the commentary for HY’s first FMQs it was pointed out that questions couldn’t be asked about party matters, but only about Scottish Government matters. DR can ask about National Grief, not personal grief – however much in the public interest.