Some things we know
As we write this at just gone 4am, there are 140 seats still to declare. But there are some things we can say already.
1. The SNP have won the election in Scotland. They currently have 32 seats with a handful to declare, so they know that they’ll have more than the three Unionist parties put together. Their total, whatever it is, will be the second-highest in the party’s history, streets ahead of the previous second-best of 11.
2. Labour will be crowing about getting more seats than anyone expected – it’s looking like six – but in fact they’ve barely clung on to their 2015 vote share and most were won by tiny majorities of under 1000. Jeremy Corbyn has, however, largely won back the votes that Kezia Dugdale – who bitterly opposed his leadership – lost in the two years since then.
3. At this stage it seems inconceivable that Theresa May can stay on as Prime Minister. It appears certain that she’s lost her majority in an election where she was at one point expected to have one of more than 200 seats.
4. Jeremy Corbyn, however, has no chance of forming a government without SNP votes. So despite losing 20-odd seats, the SNP may well find themselves in a more powerful position than they were before the election was called.
5. Corbyn has also repeatedly stated that he won’t block a second independence referendum. Independence has now for some time been more popular than the SNP in polls, and if Corbyn does grant a Section 30 order in return for the SNP putting him into power – giving them control of the timing inside a four-year window – the game is very much on.
6. The SNP will now have to pursue that referendum with more urgency, because they can no longer be at all certain of securing a pro-independence majority at the next Holyrood election in 2021. The long grass is no longer an option.
7. It looks highly possible that Labour and Lib Dem tactical votes for Tories in Scottish seats made the difference between the Tories being able to assemble a majority with DUP support and not.
8. Nevertheless, the Tories have lost their majority at Westminster while the SNP have achieved a majority of Scottish seats, although the Tories got a bigger UK vote share than the SNP’s Scottish one. The debate about “mandates” just got a lot more complicated.
9. What happens with Brexit now is absolutely anyone’s guess.
10. A second general election this year is a very real possibility. Sob.
The next few days should be fun.
Utterly heartbroken 🙁
I assume that the DUP will be similarly restricted by EVEL?
Not sure about a second GE. After tonight, who would dare call one?
A wonderful speech by our hero Alex Salmond, a true statesman.
Aye, we’ve not seen the last of you at all = )
It looks absolutely dreadful for the SNP and many of their big names are also gone. I feel especially bad for Angus Robertson and Alex Salmond, both of who will probably now quit frontline politics.
The Labour party should sit tight and let the Tories cobble together a minority government or shaky coalition with the DUP. Better to pick up the pieces later.
My hunch is that the men in grey suits will already be telling Mrs May that she’s off, and like Jacob Rees-Mogg and yourself have said, I think that we’re going to see another election later in the year. By which time, we’ll all have a better view of how the Brexit negotiations are going.
“I assume that the DUP will be similarly restricted by EVEL?”
Yup.
Actually forgot about EVEL !!
SKY NEWS pundit, “who would have thought Scotland would have been the Conservatives saviour tonight”?
You listening to that Dugdale ?
All true. Although some of the SNP losses are particularly disappointing this is a fact of life in politics of which Alex and Angus will be well aware. We enjoyed the SNP successes last time so will have to put up with a bit of crowing from the other parties for a while. I thought Nicola responded very well stating she would need to reflect on the results and analyse them before making any decisions, she certainly beats Ruth and Kez hands down in statesmanship
EVEL will be ‘repealed’, if that’s what it takes.
Easy come, easy go.
I’m still holding out for SNP making up the numbers, to get the Bigots & Bastards Party out of no.10.
How sad to lose Alex and Angus. They are real stars and will still be shining long after the dust from this election settles.
So a clear SNP majority in Scotland. Westminster arithmetic is looking interesting. Theresa May might be resigning soon.
Their total, whatever it is, will be the second-highest in the party’s history, streets ahead of the previous second-best of 11
That’s the core point of this election in Scotland. What did we have in the 2011 election? Seven? Then we zoomed to a impossibly high of 56 on the back of Indyref. The number we get this time seems a more realistic figure. But that figure has delivered an out and out, unambiguous majority.
We won.
Interesting, that the Ruth Davidson Party, will have to sit at the back of the bus, due to EVEL.
Surely, if the numbers play out Corbyn MUST take the opportunity for a progressive alliance with the SNP. You can’t campaign saying all of the toxic stuff the Tories are doing then ignore the chance to usurp them from power.
There’s been a few open doors in the past he hasn’t taken but if he doesn’t take that one he should resign with May.
This is the ulsterisation vote the tories wanted in scotland and got and lost
More pro indy seats than not.
Gutted. Losing the 20+ SNP MPs was bad numerically and in many cases bad because they seemed to be really good effective MPs. Angus Robertson and Alec Salmond in particular are horrible losses for me.
But what is sad is the pundits are already trying to say that a party winning the election – which the SNP have albeit with a much smaller margin – somehow kills independence. The crowing about *that* particular fluffy thinking is going to do my head in over the next few weeks.
That Scotland has ended up propping up the Tories while England has moved from them is… it’s totally mindblowing. Can’t get over that.
I don’t know.
Given that the Unionist Party ran a referendum election campaign and have admitted that
Eh, they lost
And all the Rangers supporters and all the kings men wont make that any different
So Ruth won and lost at the same time
Evel will have to be repealed whatever combination of parties are contrived.Scots or Irish votes are required by whoever gets the poisoned chalice.
Gutted that many rural/affluent constituencies have voted in their droves for Tories. Snouts in Trough. Gutted to lose Alex Salmond, Angus Robertson, and numerous talented people from the 2015 intake like John Nicholson. Glad SNP will still have likes of Joanna Cherry and Tommy Shepherd and all to step up.
On EVEL not wanting to be a naysayer, but won’t Tories likely have majority in England if they (say) end up with 300 (at a guess) English MPs?
But anyway – Theresa May? That’s fucking hubris for you
SNP win again = )
Thank you thank you to our wonderful hard working MPs who now will take a break from Westminster. You are so very appreciated =)
And to those who will return to the fray, thank you and well done!
“Corbyn has repeatedly stated that he won’t block a second independence referendum.”
But how much of the swing away from the SNP is accounted for by an aversion to Indyref2? Big post-mortem to do on this before plotting the road ahead.
I am not a SNP voter, in fact, I am not even scottish. I fell in this blog once by accident because of a post slagging a certain deceased blue and white team from Glasgow, and fell in love with the poisonous sarcasm here. But I am left wing, a politics geek, I sympathize with the SNP and I back the scottish independence because, most of all, would most likely allow me to move there and allow me to live my love for Irn Bru, Mogwai, dark humour, Celtic and shitty weather full time.. From my completely outsider perspective, what I think is:
I had the impression, after the Brexit referendum, that the SNP became more a pro Eu party than a pro Independence party. The Scottish Independence seemed to be a mere detail, a technicality that would allow it to stay in the EU, which was the end game. People overestimated how pro EU Scotland was. In fact, hell a lot of people voted for leaving it, for several different reasons, and the SNP made a mistake in championing it. I am very against the EU, from a left wing perspective. People have different reasons to be against the EU, and SNP failed to cater for them.
Why I think this is what caused fucking Tories to win 10 seats in Scotland? Nothing else would. Nothing would explain Scots out of sudden losing the self esteem and the civility and becoming conservatives out of sudden. Or do you think that, ahem, the “competent leadership” of Ruth Davidson is what made those people vote Tory?
SNP is more than a single cause party, it’s a progressive force, to the left of Labour, and shouldn’t have tried to become Lib Dems in a kilt (I know this is an exaggeration, take it easy)
@CardiffJock
Looking at Aberdeen South I’m trying not to place the blame on the western half of the constituency as I know wealth and poverty rub shoulders a hell of a lot closer than that in this city.
That western half sure does fit into the “rural/affluent” box though, managing to tick both at the same time.
Labour crowing about winning 6 seats from SNP but not self aware enough to notice the tories gain 11 from SNP, a net LOSS of 5 seats in the bigger WM picture.
If labour had tactically voted SNP, then the next government was MORE likely to be a labour one.
Thick as fuck.
Well ,looking at the results it certainly flushed a lot of closet Tories and Labourites out of the SNP.
I think that holding 34 seats in a hung parliament is no bad thing. I will sleep on it and give my thoughts tomorrow.(later today)
Lewis
‘mon the Mogwai !
The Hawk IS howling.
Fav track title? “The Sun smells too loud”.
Or more apt. “Scotlands shame”.
“George square thatcher death party”, from “Hardcore Will Never Die, But You Will”
But the winner must be “Mogwai’s Stupid Prick Gets Chased By Police & Loses His Slut Girlfriend” From The “Batcat” EP
C’mon up anyway Lewis. Anyone who likes the Mogwai defo falls into the ‘good guy’ category. 🙂
Some good people have not been returned to Westminster, but thankfully Argyll’s Brendan O’Hara will be?
Interesting times ahead and it’s still not clear what the ultimate outcome will be, but if there is one thing that I have learnt and that is politics can raise you up and knock you down real quick.
Just as with the USA the favourite turned out to be so unpopular they lost! Never mind, not be long before that eejit Boris blames the Russians… 🙂
Orkney and Shetland , really !!!!
Is lying taken as the norm for the Northern Isles ?
It should have been vote for anyone except Carmichael, what were you thinking.
Orkney and Shetland disproportionately benifit from the EU , let’s see them suck it up when all the EU money disappears.
Prof Curtice is calling it: Hung Parliament, game on.
@ Lewis
I agree, especially with hour second and third paragraphs.
Where now – if, as is being suggested, leaving the single market is scrapped?
@ Lewis
I agree, especially with your second and third paragraphs.
Where now – if, as is being suggested, leaving the single market is scrapped?
Thankyou Rev for spelling it out so positively .
After a tiring few days it helps to have the view from where you sit.
It’s painful to see large swathes of Scotland turn blue on the map but we must not be downhearted – we have won this election.
Sad to lose such good MP’s and I hope once they have had a good rest and recovery period they will all be able to bring their talents to many other things.
To all those who have not been successful tonight i want to say a big thank you for all that you have done for us.
What a night.
Who knows what the next 6 months holds but I have feeling 2017 isn’t done with us yet.
Apologies for double post – I changed a typo in mid-submit and both versions got through.
Liars still rule in Orkney and Shetland
“And tremble, false Whigs, in the midst of your glee,
You have not seen the last of my bonnets and me!”
What a man.
I am astonished that some of Scotland’s great political statesmen have lost their seats.
Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson have given this nation so much and must take this opportunity to express my gratitude to them and assure them that they will never be forgotten.
I find it truly inconceivable that some chinless and toxic Tory could ever be considered as an option against these men.
My own SNP MP, Margaret Ferrier has lost her seat by less than 200 votes to a daft wee boy without a Labour candidate or supporter ever knocking on my door in 25 years.
I’m disappointed and embarrassed to be Scottish tonight.
If I had been younger, I would be arranging to immigrate to a far off land that believes in looking after the majority, in truth and in justice, but now I have to watch the NHS being sold off to rich Tories, for the number of children living in poverty to rise to 5 million, for a Brexit deal that will cost Scotland over 60,000 jobs, for
inflation to escalate, for homes to be repossessed due to higher mortgage rates.
I travel quite a bit and from now on I’ll be telling those that I encounter that I’m Irish, a nation with a backbone.
Effijy
The planet continued to turn, and look, the sun came up. And out. 🙂
Hold steady.
The MSM’s days are numbered, and they know it.
How soon can we expect your analysis of the swing from SLab to Tory and the rise of the Corbyn affect saving the buts of the SLab MP’s that don’t support him? I’d love to see your take on the swing figures
The Unionist anti-independence propaganda from the BBC/Ruth continues seamlessly. It will never stop – until we stop the BBC.
Result: SNP 35 – Tories 11
Overwhelming victory for the SNP.
Thanks Stu,you have been brilliant as ever.
Like you say, EVEL the millstone around unionist MP’s Necks will prove interesting.
It appears, looking at many individual seat results, on the face of things, that that strange beast, unionists that in the recent past voted SNP, have returned to whatever colour unionist party they prefer.
I hope that the base of SNP supporters bear in mind if there were 59 goals scored in a football match and you scored 34 of them, in a numerical and empirical sense you’ve won, however, stand by for Red, Blue and Orange Tories trying to convince us all you lost the match.
A gleeful unionist msm is going to be in a mastabatory mood, metaphorically jerking off any unionist MP’s and MSP’s ‘no to indyref2’ orgasmic moaning to satisfy each other.
All the while HMS TitanicWestminster steams onwards towards a Brexit iceberg. I’d like to see their faces when the fishermen and farmers of the north and south of Scotland realise the disaster that awaits them, all this 2017 GE has said to me is Turkeys do vote Christmas after all.
There is an opportunity for bye elections to Holryrood for the SNP
In the days to come through brexit and what appears to be a hung parliament, people will come to understand the term ‘you get who and what you vote for’ only too well.
They can’t say they weren’t warned.
Before today, I’d had a figure of around 40 seats in mind. Right now they’re sitting on 34 with only a few to declare. I’d reckon only one more is a possibility at this point. It’s still a kick in the gut that media and the appalling Tory campaign in Scotland has had such an impact.
Just to repeat though, you get who and what you vote for. Something those people with new MPs should remember.
We have a hung parliament. 15 seats to go.
Maximum possible if all remaining seats go to tory is now 325.
Teresa May just Blew it!
What the actual F Midlothian.
Doubly disappointed after the council election result.
Some thoughts on the result.
The SNP was painted into a corner by Brexit.
It ran out of ideas and under estimated the strength of feeling that Brexit has generated in Scotland. It dealt with this subject incorrectly.
Extreme narrow unionism has simply come to the fore. This was a referendum on a referendum. It was also a Brit Nat anti European flag waving exercise.
There needs to be a change of leadership in the SNP. The approach that Nicola adopted, with her confrontational style hasn’t helped.
The SNP are also seen as the Scottish establishment and it appears to have been an anti establishment vote as well.
What happens next at a UK level? At just after 6am?
There won’t be a progressive alliance involving the SNP. The British Establishment will not allow it and Corbyn doesn’t have the backbone nor the support from within Labour to challenge the Establishment.
NE Fife on third recount only 1 vote/2 votes between SNP and Fib Dems.
Could go to a coin toss…
everybody lost……simple
The end of the UK will be messy indeed.
I thought this after 2014 but why don’t the British parties merge in Scotland and call themselves the Unionist Party? They’d get a permanent majority and could whore themselves out to whoever is in power in Westminster.
Carmichael, the Liar King, is re-elected in Orkney & Shetland with an increased vote.
Foot and mouth disease would do them less harm than this vote will do to the name of Orkney and Shetland.
effigy
I agree. Its hard to fathom the mindset of the Scottish voter that they believe the Tories will have the interests of Scotland as a priority.
The MSM will have a field day and the anti SNP propaganda will be turned up big time and they need to rethink their strategy in dealing with this.
I’ll write more tomorrow, but there’s no denying this is a bad result and a knock back for us. We’ll have to take it on the head, and going by the numbers there may well be another election very soon.
Lot’s to ponder.
A bittersweet night in May losing her majority, but of course the SNP doing much worse than predicted (looking like the share of the vote is lower than the polls too – Surveymonkey looking the closest(.
Let’s all get some kip and see what tomorrow brings, I’m guessing a few resignations.
Hello from Tassie:
Independence is worth fighting for so the “hiccups” have to be written off.
So sorry about the loss of Angus and Alex but perhaps they will be back – good men! At least SNP are still in control and the Westminster torys are in chaos. Best just to roll with the result and wait and see what happens. Independence is worth waiting for and will come.
Davidson will gloat but her time is probably limited if there is any justice.
Feeling for your disappointment – keep being optimistic. You are special people Wingers!
Love and support always
Mary Miles
L
1. The SNP have won the election in Scotland. The SNP need to pursue that point “hammer and tongs” now. Shout it out long and LOUD. Not let the Tories win the post-match analysis. They gambled everything on a single-issue, “Scotland, shut up”, and LOST.
2. Jeremy Corbyn has, however, largely won back the votes that Kezia Dugdale … lost And yet will Kez and BLiS have changed? Or prefer sweet FA instead of an accord with the SNP?
4. … the dozen or so MPs the Tories have collected in Scotland won’t be able to vote on many key issues … due to EVEL.Oh, how richly ironic. “Hoist” and “petard” are two words that spring immediately to mind.
8. It looks … that Labour and Lib Dem tactical votes for Tories in Scottish seats made the difference between the Tories being able to assemble a majority …Yes, several own goals for little return. LibDem votes, for example, imploded in Gordon (a one-time stronghold) in favour of the Tories, the result being that WM has lost one of its most accomplished members in Alex Salmond so the LibDems could gift the Tory another wee advantage over everyone else. Some might call that stupid and self-defeating, but I can think of worse names…
Is this election fatigue?
The most tories since 1983? Ugh.
If we blame turnout on the rain…
Some rural constituencies in Scotland have turned to parties who I believe currently ensure their agricultural induustries get less support from the EU than anywhere else in the UK, and who will undoubtedly favour support for English agriculture and fishing over Scottish. Once we are out of the EU and the CAP money stops flowing (what lesser amounts are allowed to reach Scottish farmers) what do those people imagine will happen to their livelihoods? Will Westminster hold those areas of Scotland dear, and look after them? Do the citizens of those constituencies really believe that? It seems we must have our teeth kicked out before we learn anything. Sigh.
Looks like the Conservatives will be able to cobble together a government. With maybe a quick change to EVEL if that is what it takes. We shall all be british again if the Scottish 11+ are requitred for rule. How sad.
I never want to see or hear “Vote Labour to keep the Tories out.” ever again in my lifetime. (But of course I will, unfortunately. Politicians rely on short memories.) It is a disgraceful lie. The scottish labour leader advocated voting Conservative to keep the SNP out. She and the party she participates in, are unfit for purpose, and serve no ideology but the one their Establishment masters tell them to.
This is the truth we face now.
The Independence movement faces the Establishment. The three unionist parties have done well this cycle. Their allied media will screech the death of the SNP yet again, despite an SNP majority of MPs. We need not to bleive it, and remind others of the lie.
People will be made to regret the votes they cast yesterday. By the parties they voted for. If only they can come to realise this. We must help them down that road.
Or… The Establishment goes for another election in 2 months and tries to drive down the SNP vote further.
The SNP needs to be ready for that, and ready to be robust in Scotland in defence of its record and its desire for Independence. Box clever, but don’t be pulling any punches when the other guy is trying to knock you out.
This isn’t a dance anymore. This is a fight for survival.
From twitter: Looks like the SNP have won NE Fife by 2 votes. The recount has now also been the same twice in a row. Looks like the returning officer will refuse a further recount and the SNP are in.
Well we were cock a hoop with the eu referendum result thinking it would pave the way for independence but it looks like in the end it’s caused a major setback. Fingers crossed we can recover but it’s definitely derailed the indy cause. A sad day.
Some talk on here about the possible effects of EVEL on how some of the new Scottish Tory MPs will be able to operate at Westminster.
Hopefully one of our Westminster constitutional experts can correct me, if I am wrong, but, as I understand it, EVEL only operates at the committee stage of any bill’s progress through the House.
In the final vote, before the bill becomes law and is sent to the Palace for the Queen’s signature, every MP in the House gets to vote on it.
So, we might have a situation where all these Tory MPs around the Moray coast and Aberdenshire will have no say on perhaps a fishing issue, because, at a stage in a bill’s progress where EVEL comes into play – the English Tories agree on a clause which harms the fishing or perhaps the agricultural industry in that part of Scotland.
Then, when the bill comes back for final ratification, these Tories will be expected to vote for something which harms their constituency and constituents.
It is going to be very interesting.
Meanwhile, right now, I am so pissed-off at so-many Scots voting for Unionist parties who, when push comes to shove, will put the interests of England before those of Scotland.
Recent political events have clearly shown – we are two distinct and separate countries, who believe in different things.
This morning, I could greet. And that arsehold Tomkins, crowing on TV, just mmakes me want to fire a shoe through the screen.
Stephen Gethins holds Fife North East…. with 2 votes
35 SNP 13 Tory,7 Labour, 4 L Dem
Go on Mr Gethins….2 votes !!
Unionist campaign based ONLY on indyref 2.
Kitchen sink flung at it.
They lost.
59.3% of the seats in Scotland SNP.
Hung parliament !
No mandate for Theresa.
SNP election wins tonight…1
Tory election wins tonight..0
Off to bed, what a night !!
Teresa May might get her jotters but there’s just as bad waiting in the sidelines forget Boris & Davis or Rudd, Anna Soubry will be up there with knobs on.
Funnily enough had the SNP won more than 34 seats all sorts of permutations could have arisen which would have posed awkward problems for the constitutional arrangements of the UK.
As it is the 34 SNP MPs will have more influence in the hung ‘de facto’ parliament of England than the previous 56 SNP MPs did under the last Tory government.
The Scotland Act 2016 does need a full parliamentary term to implement in full. I also read it also introduces the concept of ‘shared power’.
Apparently this is another name for federalism. Imagine that!
How convenient it was conceived and implemented before the EU Referendum.
One of the outcomes of Brexit is the return of powers to the UK and the devolved parliaments, such as agriculture and fisheries.
Those two powers, look likely to be shared with Westminster.
I imagine this will be because Scotland is not a sovereign state (yet) and there will be new international treaties that a Brexit UK will be the signatory..
Socrates: Don’t waste your emotion on Tomkins. He’s a lost soul. Alone he is worthy only of pity.
If he is the best of them, the most TV worthy, then he and his vacuous companions are destined to lose the argument.
The arc of history is long, and I believe it bends towards justice, said a worthy man half a century ago. I paraphrase.
Many moral midgets stood in Dr King’s way and he prevailed.
Tomkins is of that ilk.
We shall overcome.
Apparently some ‘high fallutin’ german politician has said that it is unlikely that the Brexit talks will start in 11 days because with a weakened leader it would be impossible for the UK to get a good deal!!!
Anna Soubry on R4 just now (6.51) being interviewed saying this has been a disaster, dreadful, and TMay has to consider whether she should stay on or not. Sticking the knife in and twisting around.
Jockeying for positions has started
‘NOW!
TRuthless for Tory leader?
Joemcg – a sad day yes, for the loss of Alex, Angus & a few others.
Given all the unionist parties campaigned on a no more referendum ticket, I don’t think they did as well as they expected. SNP are still the winning party.
The Scottish Parliament still have a mandate for Scotref once the Brexit negotiations are known. I don’t think this election changes that.
The Yes movement is not all about political parties. I know labour and tory voters who would still vote YES.
I am sure Angus and Alex will pretty much have known in advance that there was a change of them losing their seat. As said by others they are the big beasts and will be very high profile when the time comes.
I’m not sure EVEL comes into it if there’s a tory adminstration. They have a very comfortable majority of English seats.
It would come into play big time if there was a rainbow coalition though, and will be one of the considerations taken into account when they decide not to try for a rainbow minority government.
I don’t know how we do it but the media of Scotland must be held accountable for their lies and distortions.
I look forward to the demise of the ‘Scottish’ press and to the SNP and those who support independence taking a really tough stance.
BBBC , STV , the Herald , Press and Journal, Courier , Scotsman , Daily Record may I congratulate you on your election ‘win’ and add my utter disgust.
Huge sense of relief that Gethins won here in NE Fife. And the one time I’m my life when I felt that our household votes really mattered. It was a truly foul day here yesterday which may not have helped the SNP vote. But let’s not forget the aggressive, and in places dishonest, campaigning by the LDs and Tories.
I just hope that the entire SNP collective will find the space soon in which to allow minds to settle. After that we should think very carefully about the way ahead.
Bearing in mind that UK politics is very unsettled, the way ahead remains a very tricky proposition.
Just back from seeing my wonderful, hardworking and dedicated MP. Considering the results, it is good that we have retained a number of good women at Westminster alongside the men.
After GE2015, Scotland returned the most hard-working and intelligent group of MPs I have ever known who not only represented Scotland’s interests, but, also worked hard for the good of the UK. Their reward is to be cast out mainly for Tory robots whose first priority will not be Scotland. They have already told us so in their disdain for the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament.
So, well done to those Labour voters who voted Tory and those, including some SNP voters, who voted Labour in this election. You have helped the Tories to remain as the largest party in Westminster.
You’d better hope that the opposition (although the Labour Party is still about half full of Blairites) can pull off something to mitigate the austere excesses of the Tories. Then again, the SNP has been doing that for you already and it wasn’t appreciated.
Disgusted and again I’m ashamed of Scottish voters. You’ve got no excuse; you’ve been had for over 300 years and you’d think you would learn. Europe and the rest of the world must be looking on and thinking, “turkeys”.
Hard to take a positive this morning living in the now Tory enclave of NE Scotland.
Okay, now I’ve got a lot of anger off my chest with my last post. If May thought this election would give her a clear run to demolish what’s left of civilised society, she hasn’t got what she wanted.
Back to normal Betty Boop service now. Still fechtin’
Sorry to hear of Alex Salmond. A true patriot of Scotland. The good unionist loyalist fisherman are now wondering what will happen. Looks like hard brexit is out. The dreams of the fisherfolk of the north east are in tatters.
If a delegation of the hard line leadership chap on the Scottish Governments door looking for help send them to London to their masters.
Looks like the City of Culture in Hull will bid to be the centre of all fishing. Bye bye Peterheid.
Ah! New thread.
I posted along this line in the Herald (courage mon brave – I beat DDM to it), that there is still Brexit, but now it’s not just the responsibility of 54+2 SNP MPs, there’s now 13 Conservative, 7 Labour and 4 LibDems, to go with the 35 SNP MPs.
And it will be the job of ALL of the 59 to be “Stronger for Scotland”. And they will be judged, but perhaps with a lot less of the SNP-hatred around now we’ve been put in our place by the electorate – just the winning party with the most seats and the highest percentage of the vote, just like a normal election rather than a “cult” one.
Interesting times.
Number 8 might apply to the seats lost, but in Lanark and Hamilton East, there was no change in the Labour and liberal votes.
In fact Labour probably went up when you consider the turnout was down 5%.
No, somehow or other the SNP lost 10000 votes with the Tories gaining 8000. It seems incredulous.
If we hadn’t had ukip standing, we’d have elected another Tory.
Somebody tell me what the fuck is going on.
@ Dorothy Devine on 9 June, 2017 at 6:59 am
And i’d like to congratulate them on supporting this mind set:
A shameful and embarrassing media in serious need of fumigation. Not once throughout the entire campaign was the lying bastard Yon Dim Ruth held to account and grilled on her blatant lies and attempts at stirring the more violent elements of Unionist support. So called Scottish journalists? Churnalists mare like!
Salmond needs to come back to Holyrood and shore things up. Too many light weights there just now.
Also WTFIU with the teuchtars?
“Disgusted and again I’m ashamed of Scottish voters. You’ve got no excuse; you’ve been had for over 300 years and you’d think you would learn. Europe and the rest of the world must be looking on and thinking, “turkeys”.”
This.
At about 8 o’clock last night I was trying to persuade an SNP “supporter” to go out into the rain and vote. She was reluctant because she was anti-EU and didn’t want Scotland to be “ruled by Angela Merkel”, a line straight out of the Daily Mail crib book.. I still don’t know what she did in the end.
In my constituency Tory Labour and SNP all got 16,000+ votes and the SNP got in by the skin of its teeth.
The irony of anti-Corbyn BLiS getting seats only because he stole SNP policies will be lost on Dugdale and Murray, of course.
Your timely analysis cheered me a bit, Rev. and we’ve still got plenty of talent in the parliamentary group.
Thank God I don’t watch live TV…..
Tough night indeed for us. Happy Clappy no more for the SNP and Independance movement.
Really I am struggling how any Scottish person could even consider voting for a Tory, let alone actually put an “X” in the box beside the bastards.
These selfish buggers actually have the cheek to take all of the benefits from the SNP government and then vote for its antithesis.
Now we just continue as before. Let the Brexit pains begin to bite. Allow Ruth and her mad Tories to screw over the entire country and watch the self-centred ones who voted for them begin to panic as they see their own personal wealth and prospects diminish. Only when these people see their own personal wealth being destroyed will they see the light.
Get the BBC up in court over their breaches of impartiality. Both in Scotland and England. A joint action by Nicola and Corbyn. The once mighty Auntie Beeb will become the laughing stock of the world.
Finally – just how big was the Tory machine this time round. Presumably Davidson had guaranteed 10+ seats to May this time around, and indeed they played a blinder. The fact that the Tories have been saved by Scottish votes is despicable. Have these people forgotten the damage done by successive Tory governments to their country.
Outmanovered by the Tories on every turn the SNP have indeed been caught out big time. Let’s not forget that many of the winning majorities were only a few thousand right across the board we at least have a couple of brilliant miss available due to losing their seats to guide the ship in the background.
Hey Dugdale, wise up! You are the reason the Tories can hang on in Westminster.
Well done Kezia. Well done. Vote Labour get Tory.
Seriously …I could not have pictured this even a month back. There are no real winners here. I think all the parties will see it as a big defeat (all except Ruth who may have placed slowed the IndyRef2 train, but will soon find out that her MP’s are beyond useless at this point when it comes to voting power in Westminster).
Could the Tories run a minority government? Possibly, but every bill voted for will just be shot down. I can’t quite see how it could work for the next 5 years – especially with Brexit looming fast. How Europe must be laughing at this latest car-crash. They now have the UK right where they want them – incapacitated and unable to reject any proposals put forward.
A rainbow alliance of Labour, SNP, Greens and possibly Lib Dems would work in theory, but once again, EVEL gets in the way. Plus, how long before the sniping would begin between so many parties. As they say …too many cooks, spoil the broth…
So for all those folk out there who said they were sick to the back teeth of elections and referendums …well, guess what’s possibly coming next as this hung parliament that we have here looks unsolvable in this case…
Shit Creek. Paddle.
Desperate.
Not a good night in a parliament we don’t want to be in anyway, this is the mother and father of all shambles and with brexit looming.
Onwards and upwards Brexit is the real battle and its looming.
With the 3 Unionist parties in Scotland receiving such support, it surely begs the question ‘Wherein lies the Scottish Nation?’ To vote in Scotland you only have to live here, but so many who live here, as this election reminds us, clearly want to be just part of England, part of the English Nation.
Only the Scottish Nation will vote for Independence for Scotland.
Whilst normally being a ‘lurker’ I find the pessimism to be at
first an understandable reaction to this result.
I would advocate large deep breaths and quiet considered thought , along the lines of
1. Is a rerun of this election feasible or even desirable
2. If there is a coalition of unionism between the Tories &
D U P what is their deal going to be…NI getting special
brexit deal ? .
3. Who in their right mind would want to be handed this
chalice and asked to drink deeply of it.
4. The last GE result was unsustainable but now independence
has a chink in the unionist armour provided by those
very people who turned their faces away from self
determination.
These are my thoughts at the moment , tinged with sadness and
some other assorted emotions….for what they’re worth.
Im ashamed to be a Scot this morning.
Just a point, the SNP should ask a very high price of Labour in order to offer support for Corbyn. Otherwise they should have no part in it, since it will fail very quickly anyway, and the SNP will be held up as partly to blame.
Oh, and the SNP leadership needs to stop sitting on the fence procrastinating so much, letting events overtake us.
We don’t want a ‘good deal’ on brexit, we just don’t want brexit, period. No ifs, no buts. A simple, clear message for the electorate. Time to ASSERT what Scotland wants, rather than all this talk of ‘seeking a seat at the brexit talks’.
The damage of this brexit chaos is happening now. The effects are already being seen, so let’s stop waffling or begging for titbits from Westminster, and get on with the indyref campaign ASAP.
My take on what has happened. To be honest it does not change anything with regards to ScotRef.
At the end of the day Scotland still has to have a referendum on whether or not she wants to be taken out of the EU.
Oops. Lady paragraph should read….
We at least have a couple of brilliant minds to guide the independance ship from the background. Messrs Salmond and Robertson.
Hmmm… sounds like Theresa is going to try to hang on. Good news for independence, especially if she chooses to be propped up by the odious DUP bigots.
Never forget, that within the Tory party their is a large group which utterly opposes brexit, and actually supports the EU.
Independence comes nearer. The SNP holds the balance of power.
At least the Tories have failed at Westminster.
There are some very ill informed people in Scotland.
Benn who howled for more bombing of Syria with the Tories. Now crowing.
Much more of this Scotland will be Independent within five years.
The Polls wrong as usual. Lose again.
Courage folks! Remember how a couple of years ago we dreamt of having 30 MPs? And how we were all gobsmacked when we got our 56? There’s no way we could have maintained that level. With 35, we have still surpassed our hopes of 2 years ago by some margin and this, I think, is our true base line – and still makes SNP the biggest party in Scotland. And the observation of others is correct – somehow, with fewer, we actually will have more influence because of the hung parliament. The yoons will be spitting mad! 🙂
Ruth Davidson and Kezia Dugdale are going to have to face at some point the reality that the biggest losers of that GE were the Tories and the Blairites not the SNP.
Don’t forget, if Theresa clings on, her Scottish MPs and the DUP MP’s cannot vote on English only matters, due to EVEL. Which in itself is worth a chuckle.
5.48am effijy. Yes my thought’s exactly,thank God i have an Irish passport,and that is also my nationality when i go abroad. Because that piece of land North of Carlisle,is not,and will never ever be a proud independent nation.
Fluffy? 10k up? Without the greens standing?
Similar in swing Banff and Buchan?
Where are they crawling out from?
Let’s get on with indyref, ASAP FFS. Getting hacked off with all the dilly dallying. Get the campaign underway.
The best thing that can happen now is for Ruth Davidson to become the new Tory party leader across the UK.
Let Scotland see where her true allegiance lies.
So we had the council elections and the general election.
Maybe some of those branch and constituency chairs, MSP’s, MP’s and Councillors who took their eye of the ball to reinforce their fiefdoms will take stock.
No one is bigger than the need for Scotland to be a independent nation.
The SNP since 2014 has hoped the news media will be fair. They never will. They press are owned by pro Tory tax exiles, the BBC is part of the British State – look at the plants on QT.
Regroup refocus. Scotland’s fate is still to fight for.
I wonder if the Sinn Fein MPs will this time take a seat at
Westminster in light of the threat to their open border between the Republic and the Provence?
They would have sympathy for Scots seeking to break away from the corruption of Westminster Parties, as they never forget the long and bloody battle free themselves from the Empires shackles.
It may encourage them to negate the DUP’s support for Toryland?
Give them a call Nicola as every seat and vote could hold
such incredible power.
The NE of Scotland will suffer. More public money wasted and more cities ruined. Traffic chaos. Tories with no mandate or power. The Oil industry overtaxed by Westminster. Fishing affected by Westminster policies. They will get what they voted for. Nothing. Some folk never learn. AWPR etc. Then they vote Tory. Independence support will increase. Some ill informed greedy people. £16Millions of assets and they want to starve children and cut Education. They will regret it. The Tory/Unionists have ruined the UK. Alex will come back.
All the Labour losers congratulating Corbyn. Useless LibDems.
May is a laughing stock.
My overall impression is that Unionism has stayed engaged in Scotland, while the Independence movement has idled. I believe YES has sort of re-launched itself, but not in any co-ordinated way like 2013.
Unionism is fighting for its Union. That’s a task made much easier when the BBC is on the anti-Independence case 24-7, and your core support can’t join enough ideas together to compile a progressive argument to validate the Union.
I hope Nicola does not step down, but I think she has made mistakes. Personally, I’d have gone for the jugular as soon as we lost the 2014 Referendum. The Unionists had “vowed” more powers for Scotland but for what seemed an eternity hadn’t specified which powers they meant. A snap Scottish Plebiscite to have Scotland’s sovereign electorate specify those powers could have stolen their thunder and left Scotland Independent in everything but name. Crucially, we could have secured power over Broadcasting. Granted such a plebiscite hot on the heels of a referendum would have been too much for some, but we did nothing, and let the desperate Unionists off the hook. If that wasn’t a mistake, it was certainly a missed opportunity.
The next such opportunity missed was the squandered expectations in the immediate aftermath of Brexit. For a time, a new Indy referendum seemed imminent, indeed there were credible arguments made for a UDI quickly ratified by a supporting plebiscite. I’ll give Nicola the benefit of the doubt here, because she had that big SNP survey, and knew much better than me where the populations heart actually stood. I can respect Nicola had good cause to favour patience over rashness, but crucially, it FELT like an opportunity was passed up.
Nicola was pretty faultless with her pro-EU detente right after Brexit, but there is a feeling that the great momentum of the time, think of Alyn Smiths standing ovation, seems to have dissipated. It didn’t crystallise into anything solid. In the context of striking while the iron was hot, at the crucial moment, we doubted ourselves and we let things cool.
Then came the big mistake in my opinion. We took our grievance that Brexit was being thrust upon us, and made our independence referendum conditional upon what Theresa May decided to do. Because Theresa May could arbitrarily decide when to trigger Article 50, Theresa May could also dictate when we should have our referendum. We surrendered the crucial initiative. We changed ScotRef from a Scottish Holyrood initiative which Westminster had to react to, into a reactionary response to something Theresa May and Westminster would decide at her leisure.
Worse too, suddenly Scotland’s crystal clear democratic mandate for staying in the EU, was morphing into EFTA membership, or access to the Single Market, or a “special” arrangement. WTF?? Straight away, we seemed to have opted for an unforced compromise, down to mere access to the single market. No, no, no. My Brexit vote was for staying in Europe.
Still I told myself be patient. We must build on the consensus that Brexit will be a disaster, but that Independence is our escape from disaster. Except… Except we have done no such thing. Against the BritNat propaganda declaring Brexit is a great opportunity, we have suddenly lost our tongues. We are not countering the UK propaganda, we are waiting for Brexit reality to kick in and nasty things to happen to the UK to make our point for us.
Do you see? It is our constant failure. Yet again. We seem to fear taking the initiative. We seem to expect the case for Independence to make itself. We seem to think conversions to YES are going to convert to YES all by themselves. A trickle have, its true, but the relatively static 50% support for Indy is proof we need to do a lot more.
Then Theresa’s Election. How thoroughly unnecessary. A pointless detour on our Brexit / ScotRef itinerary, and didn’t it feel like it? Pesky Unionists demanding to talk about Independence all the time when the arguments were still premature without the details of Brexit. Yes, all of that is true, but it read to the neutral observer as if we were shy about ScotRef. Unionism mobilised its infantry. We felt safe and didn’t feel prompted to react. We were static throughout the election. We allowed the Unionists a “free” maul.
Again, it’s our initiative, initiative, initiative! If ScotRef arguments are premature, then why not launch diversionary assaults? The SNP could have beefed up their election manifesto to demand devolution of broadcasting. With all the data we have, we could have kept the Tory campaign on the defensive. But we didn’t. We reacted to their agenda. Led by the nose by the BBC. Again.
So where do we go from here? Well first off, for the love of God don’t step down Nicola. We’ve had a strategic reverse, but overall we still hold many strong positions. But we NEED to be in the driving seat. We cannot allow Brexit to come to us under its own steam, while the BBC bombards us with their stiff upper lip “stick together lads” bullshit. We have to take the initiative and persuade our people that Brexit is indeed a biblical disaster in the making, a desperate hardship beckons and Independence is our vital escape. We should not assume people can work that out themselves.
Effijy
The problem is in this uk state you don’t have the freedom to reject the loyalism to HM Queenie the 1/2.
It would be good if they did but their call. Did forget that English laws can’t be voted on by the Unionists of the province or the Tories from Scotland.
Looks maybe another election in the next year is more likely or the Tories will have to go soft brexit to a larger degree to help the orangemens business links with the south.
Ken Clark where are you?
How can the SNP hold the balance of power?
EVEL applies.
No one can be prime minister.
It’s a complete impasse, a deadlock, is it not?
For instance, Corbyn cannot reform the NHS in England (with the corresponding knock on effect that would result in Scotland).
Corbyn cannot re-nationalise railways.
The only thing that is conceivable is that Brexit negotiations are conducted differently because economics are a UK wide issue.
What applies for Tory MPs representing Scottish constituencies applies to the SNP.
The UK is going nowhere.
I think that now the snp should sit back and don’t attempt to mitigate,the sell off of the NHS,the attacks to come on the pensioners,welfare,prescription charges,free bus passes,pension triple lock,jobs,etc. Just sit back and let these ungrateful b*****ds who voted tory and liebor take their medicine the hard way.
Oh and i forgot,their winter fuel allowance as well.
The independence movement as headed by the ‘moderate, cautious and middle-aged’ SNP has hit the buffers. Time for a total political-existential rethink. The rise of neo-Unionism is a strident alarm we cannot ignore. There is also the smell of Irish rain in the air.
Council elections STV. Holyrood D’Houdt. FPTP the SNP would have walked it. There would have been no Unionists to brief the Press and tell a load of lies. Change to FPTP. Different electoral systems in the rest of the UK. Not democratic.
The SNP can now pick and chose. The SNP hold the balance of power.
Well I am glad our local candidate won sad to see some good people go and glad we won over 59% of seats…something May would be over the moon with if she had achieved it. Delighted to see the Tory wings clipped. A very peevish Mundell not enjoying the failure of their UK campaign on the radio this morning.
It was an election no one wanted, fought on the wrong issues in Scotland, and was hit by an unexpected Sanders type buzz in the last week which attracted young voters in particular. The SNP need to take stock, reflect and keep the possibility of another referendum in their back pocket should this parliament collapse and we are faced with stark choices.
It is not doom and gloom, there was a lot going on in that election and everything could turn on a hairpin yet.
Here’s a thought.
We know that Sinn Fein are opposed to brexit, and do not want a restricted border. If the Tories cling on to power with the DUP, might it not be the case, that Sinn Fein (who never take their seats) MP’s hold their noses, cross their fingers and take their seats albeit temporarily, solely to vote against the queens speech, and bring down the Tory Government?
It could happen. People in N.Ireland are pretty angry about brexit.
Robert Louis says:
9 June, 2017 at 8:15 am
Here’s a thought.
We know that Sinn Fein are opposed to brexit, and do not want a restricted border. If the Tories cling on to power with the DUP, might it not be the case, that Sinn Fein (who never take their seats) MP’s hold their noses, cross their fingers and take their seats albeit temporarily, solely to vote against the queens speech, and bring down the Tory Government?
It could happen. People in N.Ireland are pretty angry about brexit.
Isn’t the problem with that that they will have to take an oath of loyalty to the Crown in order to take their seats and vote?
A weak SNP campaign. They really need to call out the unionist media, especially the SNP. Too many ‘Scots’ are hard of thinking.
This might be difficult for some, but a strategy will have to be worked out to combat the large English vote in Scotland that votes No.
‘Especially the BBC’
Haha! Well, well, well! Has there ever been an election where every major party “lost”?!
The Tories will probably form a government but a weaker one. Labour, even after all these years of a Tory government are still nowhere near power. lib dems banked everything on the anti Brexit vote and did nothing. SNP lose biggest % of seats of all parties. What a clusterf**k!
Thank goodness the highly articulate Stephen Gethins, whom I think will be a future leader of the SNP, hung on in North East Fife. Having heard the dismal pedestrian Lib Dem candidate considering a legal challenge that was a narrow escape for the local voters
The loss of Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson is a huge blow not just for Scotland but for Uk politics but there have never been safe seats for the SNP at Westminster and often relied on Labour supporters to stop the Tories in the North East and Perthshire.
Due to media concentration on Tory/ Labour, the SNP has always struggled to be relevant in a Westminster context and 2015 GE result was a fluke anomaly when SNP got its share of UK wide TV coverage /leaders debate.
Despite the Unionist triads, aided by the Tory press and broadcasters that set the agenda, the SNP are still the most popular party in Scotland with two thirds of all Scottish seats and remaining the third largest group at Westminster now holding the balance of power.
Initial thoughts (before reading other comments) …
No doubt the new Tory minority administration will ‘review’ the EVEL rules!
Scotland has proven itself to be different, again. When the English have the good sense to begin to turn away from the Tories, the Scottish idiot fringe turn towards them!
The Rev’s point 7, we need ScotRef before the next Holyrood election, sets the agenda.
Tories on 311 with 4 seats to go. They now cannot form a majority with DUP. However, the Sinn Fein 7 will probably be ‘no show’. So in practise the Tories can muddle on.
We will only get a majority for YES if Brexit is awful, IMO. The Tories now have no mandate for a hard Brexit, which is what they asked for in this election. I have no idea how Brexit will play out.
Truth is, we probably need a rerun of this general election.
BBC liars still at it. Impartial? Liars. The SNP won in Scotland.
Robert Louis says:
They would need to swear the oath which is as far as I understand, part of the problem.
However, you may be right. They have the power to bring down a Tory+DUP government.
It will be a test of Sinn Fein’s commitment.
@ Robert Louis 8:15 am
“Here’s a thought.
We know that Sinn Fein are opposed to brexit, and do not want a restricted border. If the Tories cling on to power with the DUP, might it not be the case, that Sinn Fein (who never take their seats) MP’s hold their noses, cross their fingers and take their seats albeit temporarily, solely to vote against the queens speech, and bring down the Tory Government?”
There’s more chance of the SNP sending people to the HoL and entering a coalition with the tories than there is of Sinn Feinn sitting in an English parliament. Its NEVER going to happen.
It is in fact in Sinn Feinn’s interests that a hard border is put in place as it will increase support of reunification. If Brexit is (as now seems likely) a total unmitigated economic disaster then Ireland will be reunified within a decade.
What a mess. Independence can’t come soon enough.
Not sure that the EVEL points stand up.
Taking only Wales and Scotland out of the calculations gives a total of around 550 MPs for which a majority is 275. There are around 295 Tory MPs so that deed is done.
Glad you support Independence
@breeks excellent comment and I agree with practically all of it.
The SNP has been too cautious, too nice with BBC.
Gloves of time.
They need to say this election was fought on indy and we won, end of story.
No excuses, no apologies.
As
Just a couple of thoughts on this GE.
1) the worst thing will be Kezia Dugdale. The branch manager who did all she could to oppose, dislodge and/or discredit her boss, the “unelectelable” Jeremy Corbyn. Now she’ll claim all SLab gains due to herself and her campaign. She’ll ignore the real reason, the “Corbyn surge” and Scots voting SLab despite her. Her smug face and motormouth will not be off our screens (except for loud Ruth) for the forseeable future. Kez will be insufferable. Even more than Ruthie. Untruth-Ruth at least didn’t benefit from a surge for her boss down south.
2) the Tories lost their majority. (Excuse me while I take a moment to laugh outloud with schadenfreunde.) It seems they could still form a government with DUP. A government of regressive bigots. Hooray for the UK! /sarcarm
3) Sad about SNP losses. I thought the SNP were going to lose 10-15 seats, I didn’t envisage losing 21. The one I really regret is Angus Robertson. The best opposition politician in Westminster. I don’t really mind Alex Salmond losing. OK, the thriumphalist braying yoonionist mob, out for blood like a fox hunt, is momentarily delighted, rawl rawl. Time for the younger generation to come through and make their mark. The SNP isn’t Alex Salmond. Let him become an elder statesman, still a perpetual thron on the side of the Establishment, let the younger men and women take care of the day-to-day fight.
4) Maybot. Hahahahaha! Hahahahaha!
So Thatcher was more popular that lucky 13 Ruthie.
Wonderful win for the SNP.
I hope Jo Swinton will stop claiming her eye shadow on her MP expenses!
Hadn’t finished.
As an SNP member,there is a lot wrong with HQ but we kept the faith.
Now we need to be more radical. There is a lot of loyalty to folk who really don’t cut it.
Tommy Shepherd wanted to radically change members involvement, one of the reasons I voted him as depute, Angus said he would utility didn’t.
We need to galvanise the 100000 plus, get them involved or we will lose another indyref.
If SNP former an alliance with Corbyn, demand devolution of broadcasting
We will get a Tory + DUP coalition, which means a soft Brexit as DUP cannot support a hard border.
651 – No of seats
– 7 – Sinn Fein don’t take their seats
—
344 – active seats
/ 2 – divide by 2
—
323 – No of seats required for working Majority
315 – Tory Seats
+ 10 – DUP
—
325 – enough for a working Majority
EVEL
—-
651 – No. of seats
– 59 – minus Scottish
– 18 – minus NI
—
574 – no of England & Wales seats
/ 2 – divide by 2
—
288 – Majority required for EVEL
315 – Tory seats
– 13 – Minus Scottish Tory seats
—
302 – No. of English & Welsh Tory Seats
I’m heart sick this morning. Losing Alex and Angus, and my own MP Richard Arkless, terrible.
The BBC and the MSM more or less drowned out the SNP, you would not have known at times that they were standing at all. Gave all the support to Davidson and her stop indy ref2 shite, with the support of Dugdale’s crew. That so many Scot’s have voted Tory is truely sickening. I know some are saying that the SNP should sit back now and not try and mitigate the hardship from Westminster that is coming down the line at us. I understand that, but again the hardest hit will be the poor souls that are already struggling to keep body and soul together.
The SNP campaign was poor, I think that they have to have a hard look at this and stop pussyfooting about. You have to start fighting back.
I see the Maybot says she will not resign, well that may not turn out to be her call. The Tories are quite ruthless at getting rid of duff PM’s. What an unholy mess. A totally unnecessary GE, a hung parliament, and Brexit negotiations due to start in 10 days time. The sound of laughter that you here is thre rest of Europe laughing.
If I was younger I would seriously be thinking of emigrating. But I’m not, and I really worry now for my own children and grandchildren.
When Brexit does kick in those voting Tory better not moan to me.When the fishermen and the farmers get badly shafted, well hell mend the because that’s what they voted for, but are too bloody dumb to see it.
We’re always going to up against it as long as it’s just the SNP. The Greens are useless and just muddy the waters.
We need a right of centre Indy party.
The SNP cannot win on all fronts.
Far as I can see there will certainly have to be another election in the very near future. The way that Westminster has, while still calling itself the United Kingdom, been actually running as the de facto parliament of the country of England as a master race devolving English sovereign powers to three underling dominions of England as just subservient parts of the country of England and using EVEL to enforce England’s power over the other three countries cannot work now.
Because of EVEL, and the way Westminster now runs, there cannot be a coalition that involves Scottish, Welsh or N. Irish MPs.
That rather narrows the chances for any Unionist coalition as the three English Dominion members are barred from voting on English only matters and the way Westminster runs now is as the Parliament of the Country of England.
A weak campaign? Yes, I’d say so.
And yet for all that… a win. Two years ago we’d have bitten our arms off for twenty seats.
It’s not out of the bounds of possibility that he UK faces the prospect of a further GE in the near future. Brexit is now a looming omnishambles of epic proportions with absolutely nothing settled in terms of UK governance.
The only saving grace is that the SNP though weakened and with the loss of some exceptional parliamentarians, have won the election in Scotland. They’ve won it in the face of one of the most appalling campaigns outside of the the EU ref and after ten years of office. The triple lock has been costly and hard won, but won it has been. Two years ago most pro indy voters would have bitten your arm off for twenty seats in the 2015 GE.
Cuts and austerity WILL continue and our new ‘MPs’ have achieved their current posts on a single dishonest policy and on the back of a thoroughly dishonest campaign. They’ll vote the way their head office tells them.
What happens next?
It’d be a brave soul to call it.
What is certain is that the whole UK is set for some very hard times regardless and it can and should be lain firmly at the feet of central government and the media. What the establishment parties and the media have done will cause untold suffering as Brexit unfolds.
We need to brace ourselves for the worst and be prepared to help out where we can. Those the establishment political class abandon, we need to protect.
The SNP won
They hold the balance of power
The Unionist hold no power in Scotland at any level. A total rabble.
Independence support is increasing.
What a mess. Independence can’t come soon enough.
People complaining. Get a grip.
What the fcuk happened yesterday, I know I predicted the North East would be lost to the tories, but Labour and lib dem gains as well, thankfully my MP Ian Blackford got re elected, but I remember a few weeks back getting slated here for daring to mention the tory surge was happening in places up in that corner, well I truly hope the fishermen and farmers reap what they sowed, now farming subsidies and fishing being sold down the Thames again, they are all in for a big fecking shock in the near future
You get the government you vote for, and with this election, Scotland has essentially consigned itself to being part of an dog’s dinner of an English Brexit. What a pitiful concept of nationhood. It could have been so different if the people of Scotland had even an inkling of courage, be that yesterday or 2014.
I cringe at the term “Proud Scot”, as I can only be deeply ashamed, and I’ll throttle the next piper with his instrument who strikes up “Scotland the Brave”.
It’s hard to believe, but there are some idiots out there who allowed “the rain” to prevent them from going out to vote yesterday.
The GE election in Scotland aligned on Independence lines. The Unionists lost.
Ross Thomson? Having a laugh. Won’t last long.
Be really interested to know how much tactical voting in Scotland factored in relative to SNP losing voters to other parties. How about the turn out relative to 2015? Did too many SNP voters simply not vote?
Will love to see the detailed breakdown and genuine analysis of this result.
The SNP leadership need a right shake -up – they have tried the softly softly approach AND it has backfired to some extent.
Of course, Nicola needs to stay above the noise but we need stronger and more able lieutenants – people who can really mix it with the right wing British Nationalists that currently call the shots among the other parties and the Brit Nat media.
And that’s another thing why do we call them Unionists – they are British Nationalists (Brit Nats) – lets take it to them!
I see the tolerant, love the underdog, non racist English voters returned the “f**k off back to scotchland) mp James heappey as their candidate for burnham-on-sea Wells. Lovely tory little englanders.
@ Abulhaq at 8:12 am
The independence movement as headed by the ‘moderate, cautious and middle-aged’ SNP has hit the buffers. Time for a total political-existential rethink.
You’re not wrong,
I have sat through so many SNP meeting, they seem bland uninterested.They show no passion I would go further they seem like a Tory Sewing Bee who merely seeks independence as an afterthought.
My view of things is that the SNP have been treading water since 2015,using a “not rocking the boat policy” in respect of Independence and at the same time doing a good job of the day to day running the Administration(I don’t doubt some will not see it like that, It’s only my view) I would suggest that if Sturgeon is to stay and there really is no reason why not, she needs to bin the weak, appeasing strategy.
There are some within the SNP management who need to go.Now.
Something is wrong in Scottish politics that resulted in Alex Salmond lost his seat, most of his life he has served Scotland faithfully, And his constituency now vote for a Tory erse.It was of course their choice but woefully disappointing
The SNP won.
What a Westminster mess. Laugh a minute Most of the Unionist crooks should be put in jail.
Independence can’t come soon enough.
The GE re aligned on Independence vote. The Unionists lost.
Strategically, if I was Nicola, I would be having a quiet word with our SNP MEP’s and getting the inside line of the Brexit negotiations straight from the EU, and use that information to articulate the problems that Brexit is going to create before they are formally created. Does Nicola no harm to display a healthy level of prescience which proves to be “spot on”.
If the SNP has inside knowledge of of where the Brexit pinch points are most likely to occur, they can lay the ground in advance and have the arguments researched and rehearsed. Get the EU working with us for the express purpose of beefing up Nicola’s EU credentials. Chances look a little more bleak getting to the Brexit negotiating table from the UK side, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat.
@Effijy says:
9 June, 2017 at 8:01 am
I wonder if the Sinn Fein MPs will this time take a seat at
Westminster
======================
They have already said they won’t. This leads me to consider this. They say 326 seats is essential to form a government but in practice surely it’s that minus the number of Sinn Fein (who don’t take theirs)? That means the Tories only need one seat from another party as Sinn Fein have 7 with 3 results to come. Adding all the other seats up at present – except DUP – you get 314 with the Tories on 316. 3 more seats to come and if none are Tory then you have a truly hung parliament but a comfortable lead combined with DUP. I get that EVEL is a problem for them but then if it’s the same for SNP and Plaid Cymru still a comfortable lead for the Tories and they can always change the rule anyway.
May of course has lost all authority even within her own party but the need to deal with Brexit quickly may lead to her being kept on. The only thing that might cause problems is if the pro-Europe MPS among the Tories are emboldened again by her weakness, at least over the form of Brexit. Otherwise I don’t see that there is any way anything but another Tory government is on the cards.
Looks like another election is going to happen – possibly in October. Alex and Angus & Co will keep calm and carry on campaigning.
Brexit is still the disaster it was yesterday and the Ruth Davidson No Referendum Party will look pretty stupid as the cold facts dawn on the fishermen of the NE. This time the blame will lie squarely with the the Tories who represent them.
I believe Vestas is correct regarding Sinn Fein.
On another note, the loss of Westminster seats for the SNP is only relevant if it translated into losing an independence referendum but it’s not as neat and tidy as that.
I would take 35 MPs and 51% Yes in an independence referendum any day of the week.
I don’t agree that the SNP ran a poor or weak campaign. You cannot judge a campaign that has to fight the media as well as the opposition parties to get its message out.
The media as much as the opposition made the Scottish part of the election about an Indyref mandate which had already been won in the Scottish Parliament.
Nicola Sturgeon worked her arse off as usual and did everything and more than could have been expected of her.
She was solid in all the debates she attended she kept her presence strong at every interview and was never thrown.
It wasn’t a lack of SNP effort that lost them seats it was once again the combined efforts of a 3 party opposition working together coupled with the media in full support.
And lets not forget that 16 and 17s were excluded from the vote.
Don’t know if EU nationals were excluded though? If so that would have been a major factor as well.
Like I said will love to see a detailed breakdown and genuine analysis of the result before judgement is passed.
Surely the fact that the election was fought on indy only by the other parties means that the result is now clearly a true representation of how the country feels on independence. If it was called tomorrow then ‘yes’ would win.
The How-To-Win-Friends-and-Influence-People quotation of the day comes from the Conservative MP for Reigate, Crispin Blunt: “The electorate plainly have got it wrong.”
Play it again, Sam.
Brexit will be a total clusterfuck for the UK that is inevitable and that more than anything else will determine our path towards Independence. Not this GE or even the next.
the problem last night was a lot of people who voted SNP in 2015 voted Labour not for Kezia dugdale but for Jeremy Corbyn they still support Independence … their switch last night let the Tories in … i know a lot of SNP voters in my area voted Labour for that reason
Kesia has a lot to answer for here. Had she stood enthusiastically behind Jeremy Corbyn then a lot of the determined “no” voters would surely have voted labour in much greater numbers. By ignoring policies and focussing solely on independence (While JC succeeded in making Labour a real and exciting progressive option in RUK) – and by actually recommending that voters should vote Tory if that was the best way to defeat the SNP – Kesia may well have singlehandedly ensured a Tory majority. Quite a legacy for Kesia.
Deeply depressing.
The SNP has won on all fronnts. On a rigged electoral system. Different in Scotland and the rest of the UK. Imposed by Inionists.
The UK electoral system is a total mess. Roll on Independence.
Brexit away to start? The Tories are a laughing stock. Another GE soon? What a mess. They couldn’t run a pissup at a brewery. The Westminster crooks.
It really would be laughable if it wasn’t so tragic. What a mess. Could they muck up any more. Par for the course.
The losses are worse than I thought, I expected to see us
lose 12 MPs and not the to 19 that we have lost.
As others have said it is sad to see Alex and Angus not hold theirs, Stephen Gethins holds NEF bytwo votes.
But this is a warning to those who believe Labour in Scotland is dead and finished, it isn’t it can still can inflict so much electoral damage on our party.
I also listened to John McDonnell waffling on this morning about Labour forming a minority government and not prepared to enter into coalitions, alliances or deals and saying it will be for other parties to support Labour’s policies or not.
Does he really he believe such a government will be able to achieve much or last very long at Westminster before it suffers defeat?
Swiss perspective 9.15am. Scots courage lol,the only courage i see when i go up to ayrshire,are what the bigots get from a glass in the pub . When they shout at the telly,c’moan ra gers,and we arra peeple. It takes two of them standing together to form a brain cell.
I agree with Robert Louis. The SNP have just been too nice. They should have fought more against the lies from the Ms’s Davidson and Dugdale. The SNP need to toughen up!
As i look around this great country called scotland, i often think to myself, if turkeys could vote, i wonder if they would be stupid enough to vote for christmas….. mmmmmm
What does appear to be clear is the fact that tactical voting in Scotland has allowed the Tories to carry on in Government with the help of the DUP.
Jeremy Corbyn should seriously consider sacking Kezia Dugdale for that alone and have a total purge of all the Blairites in Scotland.
Labour got 6 seats. Tories got an anti Independence vote. Par for the course.
I look forward to some sort of analysis of the change in voting pattern.
I just can’t believe that so many previous SNP supporters suddenly vote for the Tories who were standing on Brexit and NoIndyRef. That leap of opinion seems to great! It seems implausible.
Firstly, overall turnout is down and that may have effected the SNP more. It is possible also that past SNP supporters stayed away while previous non voting Labour and Tories turned out.
Secondly, it is possible BritNat Labour have opted for the Tories, while the Corbyn effect took some SNP voters to Labour. This makes some sense of the results.
Thirdly, the 2015 massive 50% may have been inflated by Tories giving the SNP tactical votes to damage Labour. The SNP has never been so high again, so if this did happen these people joined the Tories again after 2015.
2015
SNP 50.0%
CON 14.9%
LAB 24.3%
LD 5.7%
GRN 1.3%
2017
SNP 36.9%
CON 28.6%
LAB 27.1%
LD 6.8%
GRN 0.2%
Oh well, at least there’ll be less dogmatic posts about the EU from Rev from now on. Thank fuck.
Ah, just kidding.
How in the name of common sense can any scottish voter vote for the tories in scotland, its madness i tell, madness
I agree with Robert Peffers and Macart, another GE this year is on the cards, god help us all.
By the way, does anyone know what the percentage turnout was in Scotland?
mike d on 9 June, 2017 at 9:33 am
“It takes two of them standing together to form a brain cell.”
Feck! You’re in a generous mood Mike.
🙂
I woke up to this mess in France with weather to match my mood.I hav’nt had breakfast as I feel sick its almost a re-run of 2014.Where do these type of voters come from the curtain twitchers who quietly wait to satisfy their self serving needs.
Did we not get the vote out,tactical voting,the bbc and press,poor campaign,campaign independence focused by the unionist partys.There are a lot of questions to be asked.
We will have to sit out the next few weeks then go again.I feel heart sorry for all those who were out on the streets doing the dirty work;Our time will come again and we only need to win it once.
@ Breeks, 8:08am
Absolutely! I did try to get the local yessers to carry on after the indyref. There was just so much to talk about right from David Cameron’s announcement about EVEL and the Smith Commission that could have helped inform the public about how the union does not work for Scotland. SNP at local level discouraged yes engagement after indyref (there were some significant and notable exceptions). That resistance has, I think, cost us dearly.
In truth, we got to 45% in indyref because of grassroots running with the ball and informing the public, but, the party dropped it in the long grass. It was left to blogs, Wings, think tanks like Common Weal, Inform Scotland, some local presentations, etc., but, no party support.
Brave, we have to be brave, and the SNP has to take off the kid gloves.
BTW, my son predicted a loss of 20 seats and has been adamant about it for a few weeks.
FFS Scotland!! How short is your fairly recent memory of the utter devastation the Tories left in Scotland! Completely destroyed our manufacturing industry and more. I remember the closure of Ravenscraig and the effect it had in that area.
And yet, you vote in 13 Tory MPs?
Well, 13 is an unlucky number…… It’ll be unlucky for Scotland’s poor, including ‘working poor’, our disabled population, our pensioners, anyone on benefits. The Tories will only look after themselves, as usual.
They don’t care about the people of Scotland, only the resources they can steal to prop up the SE of England.
I can see another General Election happening before the year is out.
I was doing polling duty yesterday, and we got around 50% turnout despite the horrible weather.
But one thing I did notice was the lack of young voters who turned out. We needed the 18 – 30 year olds to get up off their backsides and cast their vote, but there were very few that did, at least where I was.
This needs to change at the next election, whenever it happens.
“Won’t somebody think of the poor Poles stuck here in limbo until they’re cast out by the nasty party?!!”
“Naw, couldn’t give a fuck mate.”
Who knew?
Some folk highlighting that SNP won majority of seats and I try and think optimistically that this is yet another camp reached as we climb the Everest of Independence.
However, my gut tells me we are just a striker in the penalty area who had a shot at goal and chose to try and retain possession until a better opportunity came along and ultimately blew their big chance.
The SNP had no clear message in this election bar “lets just wait and see”..after winning hearts and votes with demands and emotion, the call for becoming sensible heads probably lost some interest, and it rained too!
I actually feel when we won that 50 odd seats we should have did a Sinn Feinn and not recognise parliament. Our presence there made not one bit of difference at the end of the day.
The SNP never lost. They won. It just a re aligned on Independence. Lower turnout? The SNP won. An Independence Ref can be won.
What a mess in the rest of the UK. Westminster unionist crooks. May is a laughing stock. Another GE?
DUP? What a joke. NI voted Remain.
@Marie Clark
==============
link to bbc.co.uk
The SNP needs to change its stance on Europe. They need to come out and acknowledge that folk have different opinions, and that the country will be given a choice between full membership, leave or a Norway style deal,in a referendum aftet independence.
* fewer
Just 4 U, K1
Scots have always been more inclined to vote Labour in General Elections and SNP in Holyrood. 2015 was the exception and perhaps that effect has returned. It was a last minute UK wide surge to Labour which is why the polls didn’t show it. The gap between Lab and Con is less than polls suggested.
Also earlier, the hard core BritNat element of Labour in Scotland had already moved to the Tories.
This may mean, hopefully, that for Holyrood that lost to Labour vote may swing back to the SNP.
The BritNat element is now probably firmly with the Tories.
There may be a block floating between SNP and Labour, again. This group should be receptive to a good argument for Indy.
However we analyse this,about 14% of the SNP vote disappeared.
That is possibily accounted for by anti-EU SNP voters who failed to turn out, (which is a ludicrous position),and complacency.
Equally the tactical voting by the Labour voters helped theTories, especially in the North East.
Independence is still the ultimate goal but we have had a setback, no doubt about it. However demographics and the 16-18 year olds will help a future referendum.
We still won in Scotland off course. Go back only three years and the idea of 35 SNPseats would have seemed like a dream.
Thankfully we held on to Douglas Chapman, but am gutted for all the SNP MP’s that lost their seats, particularly Angus and Alex, both of whom supported their constituencies exceptionally well over the years – nowt as queer as folk who now condone posh dog fighting (fox hunting), bedroom tax, dementia tax, rape clause, loss of triple lock on pensions, continued austerity, happy to see their european neighbours deported etc – so much for we are all Jock Thomsons Bairns – cant believe how anybody could vote Tory in Scotland. There is no way the Tories can hang on to the UK in a minority, or labour for that matter, cannot see any other option than a re-run as if we weren’t sick to the back teeth of voting.
Desimond at 0947am,
I agree with every single word.
Brillo has got yet another talking head on from The Spectator.
Scotland voted 62% – 38% Remain. Ie the majority supported EU membership.
Lets look at what’s bad.
The Turkeys in the North East and the Borders have voted for Christmas. The fishermen will now get screwed. While independence was on the table, fishing was off the brexit table. The farmers will all be having nervous breakdowns worrying about what’s going to happen to their subsidies. I feel for the small farms and hill farms, many of whom will have voted SNP.
Now. What’s good?
SNP now has a chance to regroup, look at the situation and get back to long term planning. Nicola was railroaded into Indy2 by brexit, now she can backtrack without looking daft. We have 5 years for the Tories to make a dogs dinner of everything. It’s a shame, but in the long term it may help the independence movement.
Fireproofjim says:
Yes. I forgot about them. That will probably account for some of the SNP loss. I do know a few people who are seriously offended by the SNP’s EU stance.
Labour got six seats. They lost in Scotland. The Tories got the anti Independence vote on a lower (1/3?) turnout.
Weak election campaign, yes.
Weak Brexit campaign, well, short on factual substance, certainly.
Weak YES campaign… TV-wise yes.
Tell me, how exactly do you go about having a STRONG campaign when the BBC and Unionist media holds a news monopoly and will not allow you to present the progressive arguments of your campaign? Strategic “visionary” policy is a no-go area. The debate is forever forced through the same myopic tunnel vision perspective dictated by the host who makes the “programme”.
It seems we’re all fine with the routine process which reduces the great expanse of limitless sovereign independence to pedantic bickering over whether the literacy of our kids fluctuates by a point or two.
I could write the ScotRef script now because it is so utterly, utterly, predicable.
When does the main ScotRef feature actually begin? Should I ask the BBC or the Scottish Government?
Anyone visited the ‘proportional map’ in the Independent?
Scotland is a tiny wee lump on top of Greater England – and the Electoral commission shown as the source . ‘Proportional ‘ is the description in the top right hand corner.
I have to say , I’m at the ‘f^ck ’em’ stage with regard the media and the Davidson/Dugdale /Rennie Party – that glorious amalgam of small minded , self serving Scots.
Lemon @ 9:04 am
“We will get a Tory + DUP coalition, which means a soft Brexit as DUP cannot support a hard border.”
So it would appear. Any other permutation of seats would not work. In 2010, the exit poll was just as precise as this one, and it was the only outcome that would result in a Tory/Lib-Dem government. I didn’t believe it was a coincidence.
@ Juteman
They needed to change it a while back, but it seemed like they were playing with the only card they had to chase the mandate for a second ref, while shouting about how great that card was. That’s what Rev said, anyway. And he WASN’T towing the party line on that. No sir.
Alex Neil had the right idea by saying that EU membership should be in a separate referendum, and I pointed out that out a while back only for…who was it now…oh yeah, that btl niceguy yesindyref2 to butt in and rubbish the idea and call Alex a third rate loser.
Invention?
I’m becoming Rock. Kill me.
Marie Clark says:
2017 66.4%
2015 71.1%
Therein lies a component of the SNP’s lower vote, IMO.
Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson lost by relatively small margins. A new election is likely very soon, let’s get them re-elected.
Aside from raw politics, Alex and Angus are well liked in his constituency, and many complacent voters will be shocked he has gone. This will motivate them next time, within a few months.
Also the SNP need a stronger campaigning message – as others above have pointed out. Their message, basically gave the broadcasters license to ignore them. And they duly did.
Time the SNP took the proverbial gloves off, and stopped being so nice.
Oh, and let’s get the indyref campaign started, for heavens sake. Over to you SNP.
Everything is lining up for Independence.
May is a laughing stock. DUP? For goodness sake. What a mess.
Slightly O/T:
The Catalonia Government has just declared that they will hold an Independence Referendum on 1st October 2017.
The question will be: “Do you want Catalonia to be an independent country in the form of a Republic?”
If Spain tries to block it the Catalan Government says it will declare UDI.
link to twitter.com
Oh, and isn’t it about time the SNP/Scot Gov actually DID talk about WHY we need independence. Right now they have completely fallen into the unionist trap of forever being on the defensive, constantly saying ‘us?talk about independence? No, not us, didn’t mention it’. It is absurd, and is allowing the unionists to continually portray independence as an undesirable thing, to be denied at all costs. Eventually that message will become accepted wisdom.
SSSh! don’t mention independence.
It cannot be allowed to continue.
The plus I take from this result in Scotland, and it’s not a great one as returning 13 Tories negates most positive thoughts, is that 46 MP’s from Scotland oppose a hard Brexit. The people of Scotland again rejected the Tory Brexit plans. Are the Tories going to respect the will of the majority of voters in Scotland.
Also the SNP triple lock has happened, the Indyref must happen if requested.
For those saying we should have called independence referendum and we would have won, your blinkered.
Read up on Sun Zhu art of war.
“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
Variant: Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.”
There is a lot to be learned from Sun Tzu that can be applied to winning independence referendum.
link to en.m.wikiquote.org
After brexit shit hits the fan in 12 to 18 months we will have overwhelming odds.
People, especially no voters are selfish and when they see brexit will hit their pockets hard, they will grab opportunity that independence offers to save their money/benefits/pensions/jobs.
galamcennalath @ 09:55:
Yes, I have been wondering the same. Enhanced as it was by the TV in particular in the last week or so effectively shutting out the SNP and focussing solely on the race between May and Corbyn. It’s hard on all the other parties at the best of times, and when the media did bother to focus on the SNP, it was to treat then as the incumbents, FFS!
Another way of looking at it though from a Scottish perspective is to think of the Union as a tired old nag, well past its prime, but punters have continued to back it anyway out of sentiment. Its owner and trainer have cajoled and bullied people into sticking with it. The young ones, not knowing its history, have been particularly easily fooled. But soon the nag is going to run in a major sweepstake in which the foolish punters are going to be relieved of all their unwise bets. Then the nag will quickly end up at the knackers.
Ian Mackay at 1010am,
And THAT is EXACTLY what our Scottish Government should do, if indyref is blocked by Westminster in any way. If they will not accept a democratic decision, then we need them out of the equation. Stop playing by their self serving rules.
It is the only language that Westminster understands. You either hold a metaphorical gun at their head or you get sweet b****r all.
@Lewis
You asked why?
I would say 2 things.
Money and Media manipulation.
However, all the money in the world will not hide the disaster that is Brexit even with the full support of the media.
Only our second best result ever in a Westminster election! We’re still Number 1 with almost 60% of the seats. We’re disappointed because our expectations were much higher.
I helped with the telephone canvassing for the Ochil and South Perthshire seat and, of those who would tell me, there were several reasons for not voting SNP this time.
1. Fed up hearing about IndyRef / too much focus on it by the SNP and just want it to go away.
2. Voted to leave the EU and don’t support the SNP on its EU stance.
3. Against immigration.
4. No point voting SNP in a Westminster election as they can’t form the government.
5 Don’t like the SNP candidate – in this case Tasmina Ahmed Sheik.
As others have said, Brexit has not yet hit. When it does we should get a lot of these voters back but we certainly can’t take them for granted. We need to up our game and provide a much more compelling narrative about the benefits of an independent Scotland and the dangers of remaining within the UK.
Jean-Claude Juncker says EU will postpone Brexit if need be. What a mess tories have made again.
All we’ve had in Scotland since 2015, is a spectacular display of how tory and Westminster power is flexed here, from Pacific Quay, ITV, every news room there is. Its how works in this country, monster SNP, run down Scotland, demean and diminish Holyrood and our fledgling democracy.
And then they give Ruth D all the credit. Much more BBC Scotland led power and glory flexing to come, until SNP are back to third, is the plan.
Brexit is going to be an awesome mess. Much more than before Brexit will now play the major part in Scotland regaining its independence. Thankfully Scotland, unlike England, has friends in Europe.
People in England are set to get even madder at the EU than they already are. They will also get mad if England has to repeal EVEL.
We need to remember that SNP has just won 60% of Scottish MP seats. 60%! Won in the face of a declaration of all out war by the BBC on the SNP for months and months!
Additionally, and mots importantly, Davidson now has nowhere to hide her actual tory policies. Where, previously, she could do so with impunity, aided & abetted by complicit BBC Scotland, shock waves will reverberate when Scots tory & labour MPs troop through lobby in Westminster to sell out our fishing rights and agriculture. They will have nowhere to hide and no spin will be possible on that harsh reality.
This resuscitation of yoondom in Scotland is necessary. It is necessary for Scots to realize (a) how much Scotland has been protected by the SNP Govt and (b) how much the BBC lies to them.
But 60% of Scottish seats. Remember that! 60%!
That’s just triple locked Indyref2. Well done Scotland’s SNP. Very well done.
Fuck off, heed.
The ‘wee red hens’ standing on the sidelines. Everyone else has to do it for them. Why don’t they get stuck in. Instead of criticising. Alex will return. Ross Thomson? Having a laugh. Not for long. The NE has lost out. Forgotten again. Oil sector and destroyed by high Tories taxes and Tory policies. Fishing subject to Westminster policies. People with £16Million of assets want to starve children and cut Education/NHS funding.
Davidson not going to be PM after all? The Westminster crooks. Criminals cheating electoral expenses.
Just as well the SNP is still in control at every level in Scotland. Keep it that way. Hold the balance of power in Westminster.
Brexit will be a disaster. May is a laughing stock. Another GE looms. What a mess. Westminster government. The Unionists crooks couldn’t manage a piss up at a Brewery. They are always half pissed.
galamcennalath @ 10.07, thanks for the turnout info. Yes it explains a wee bit of what happens. The Tories always get their vote out.
Lower voter turnout always benefits the Tories.
The DUP/Orange Order pulling the strings in the UK Government. Unfuckingbelievable!
All Scottish Tory gains were in fishing and farming areas.
Clearly brexit related.
The good news is that this is easily recoverable.
Not least because Tories will bargain fishing away during brexit negotiations (for most UK voters its not a big issue – but fishing rights attractive to EU states).
SNP still got 38% of vote and most Scottish seats.
The real question is what % of YES voters decided to take a punt on Corbyn?
Not a great night for SNP – however independence is a long game.
It will be interesting, if even possible, to see how the votes actually moved in Scotland. It would be an amusing irony if the tactical voting of Labour supporters deprived Corbyn of the premiership.
Will please Dugdale no doubt as Scottish Labour didn’t appear to really want him as PM. Not sure what Murray in Edinburgh is going to do as he spent his two years at WM opposing Corbyn, will he now become a ‘believer’.
I live in: “a former mining village” in East Ayrshire. Our last local pit closed in 1967, but, even today, we are still extracting coal locally, through opencasts.
When Thatcher first came in, the village had a population of 6000, today, we have less than 3000. The local joke was, the Labour vote wasn’t so much counted as weighed.
Today, we have a local councillor who is a Tory – OK, we voted for him because he was the only villager standing and he is a good guy, we backed the man, not the rosette.
This morning, I woke up to find, we now also have a Tory MP. I am confused, unlike with our councillor, I would not know this guy from Adam.
I was never very keen on our defeated SNP MP, but, to see someone who was pro-Scotland replaced by a representative of the Nasty Party – I am confused and angry.
Make no mistake, the BBC and the pro-Union media in Scotland played a major role in getting so-many Tories and Labour MPs voted-in in Scotland.
The SNP has now to get off the back foot and started to hit back at the lies, misinformation and bias of these union BUMs.
Reluctant Nationalist @ 10:26,
This ain’t your site, sonny jim..!
What if any, statistics will be available re Postal Votes by party compared to the overall vote per constituency.
@TheStrach says:
I helped with the telephone canvassing for the Ochil and South Perthshire seat and, of those who would tell me, there were several reasons for not voting SNP this time.
“1. Fed up hearing about IndyRef / too much focus on it by the SNP and just want it to go away.”
———-
Of course, that is going to be the main issue when the Tories were campaigning only on that, with constant anti-SNP mailshots in target seats.
And Labour and Libdems doing the Tories work for them also.
But is the right tactic to downplay independence or robustly defend it ?
Looking at the result, perhaps there will be a few sick Labour supporters in Scotland who voted Tory and enabled May to win again.
New tory PM David Davis V Jeanclaude Juncker. Cant see Bojo making it to No.10.
SUN 29th May 2017,
EUR HAVING A LAUGH Theresa May will attack ‘aggressive’ Eurocrats like Jean Claude Juncker who are demanding huge Brexit divorce bill
She will also vow to fight for Brits dismissed for complaining about ‘low skilled immigration’
The UK is now in the hands of the DUP and they don’t want a hard border with the RoI.
So much for Brexit ending free movement.
May warned of the coalition of chaos, not sure what you call a Tory + DUP coalition.
@ Undeadshaun at 10.17am
Good quote from Sun Tzu and well worth considering. In the 1990s with devolution, the victory had been won before battle was engaged (‘settled will of the Scottish people’ &c). There’s no compelling evidence which suggests similar conditions exist for running indyref#2 – particularly when you look at the percentage results from last night.
At the same time I share the frustration and anger over the SNP’s softly-softly approach. Strategically, I’m not sure they could have done anything else. But tactically it should have been much harder edged.
Dealing with the Unionists and the MSM now is clearly playing chess with a pigeon (you make your carefully considered move, and the pigeon kicks the pieces over then shits on the board). What do you do? Do you continue to behave ‘normally’, play by the rules, defend those rules?
No. Gloves off. Time to call bullshit on bullshit questions. You want to talk about independence? – fine, let’s do that. Make the case, prepare the ground, create the victory.
In many ways last night’s result should have been the result in 2015.
Anyway: triple-lock for independence referendum undeniable; SNP in Westminster must not form any formal pact with Labour; SNP will take it “issue by issue”; Westminster will be an even bigger mess for months to come as it already is; SNP must continue to bolster friendships with other nations in Europe; now is the perfect time for the SNP in England and Scotland to do as much as possible to make the so-called united kingdom as ungovernable as possible.
Time to get seriously mischievous. Perhaps Alex could co-ordinate this?
I fear if the SNP push ahead with the intended indyref in 2018/19 it will be lost and possibly by more than 2014, putting it off the agenda for 20 years. I know folk, likely to vote for indy, that were angry when it passed through Holyrood in March, comments like “we just want to live our lives, fed up with this”. That, I’m afraid, is the mood of the majority. The folk that were fed up with the two and a half year long campaign the last time. While we were watching all the late night political shows, they were switching off and didn’t switch on until the final weeks.
It wasn’t going to be “Now”, yes, but the campaigning would have started later this year in all probability. Maybe last night was a blessing if it makes the SNP take a step back, concentrate on the day job (I know, I know!) and win people back through good governance. Then hopefully after the inevitable Brexit clusterfuck, we re-group, gain our strength back and have a great Holyrood election in 2021, maybe on a “if you want independence, vote SNP” ticket. Then the political landscape might be more conducive to a winnable Indyref2.
What did McTernan Predict?
The vote against the media finally happened but not here in Jockland they voted against the Tories and the media collectively for the over monstering of Corbyn who came up with SNP policies so Theresa May paid the price for it
The SNP did badly but Nicola Sturgeon just got proved right again vote Labour get Tory and that’s exactly what we’ve got
but what’s worse is now folk will think it was all about the referendum and our loyal Yoonion party will scweem and scweem about it being that from now till doomsday
Voters are such a pain in the Arse
Indie ref is definitely on the back-burner now, for one simple reason…Theresa May no longer has a mandate for a hard Brexit.
The Scottish government can now press for retention of the single market.
Once again, Unionists and their propaganda machines dictated the conversation to rig the election. And once again every word they said was a lie or at best a half truth. The question to ask is IMO “How much does Scotland contribute to the U.K. Treasury? (As a yearly global figure, and as a yearly per head of population figure.) And I mean every piece of revenue from every Scottish source whether produced by a purely Scottish company or not. I would also include a notional rent income from MOD land and property, as well as Crown Estates, Forestry Commision land, etc. Oil revenues should include all added income for consumed fuel, petrol and diesel sales, and all excise tobacco duty and V.A.T. (Including Police & Emergency Services payments). Feel free to add to the list, I am sure I have missed a lot of things.t
Look on the bright side. UKIP is finished. All those wasted embezzled £Millions/Billions. A lot of Tory backers wasted.
People are angry who support Tory councillors? Par for the course.
Young folk who did not research on their own admission voted for Corbyn. They will learn. It will be a lesson for some folk. They were warned. SNP, SNP, SNP. YES, YES, YES.
The Westminster unionist mess. A world laughing stock. The UK going down the tubes. £ fallen again. The majority in Scotland do not want to be taken out of the EU damaging the economy. Brexit will be another nail in the coffin.
How many leaflets did the dissenters deliver? How many who can, go out campaigning. Sitting on the sidelines criticising, instead of getting stuck in. Little red hens. Expecting everyone else to do it for them. Complacent. Will it be a lesson learnt. Or will they be warned again and again.
How the world sees the result …
link to independent.ie
link to smh.com.au
link to nytimes.com
link to timesofisrael.com
link to abcnews.go.com
Hope the EU digs the knife into Westminster deep and hard. Britnats in England are going to go ape-shit.
Revolution! Ah tell ee!
Nicola will never give up on another IndyRef. That was the promise to SNP voters, The SNP won. The GE turnout 50%? The IndyRef 85%? Over 30% more.
When is a win not a win, when its and SNP win!
Was it a bad night for SNP, it was a good night, but it did not meet previous highs.
After 7 weeks, I do not know a single policy of the tories except the dementia tax and taking away of winter fuel allowancew.
The labour policies I know are existing SNP policies.
In the end we were bound to suffer from a drop in popularity, partly down to bbc and media, but remember the SNP are being judged on 10 years of government, whilst others have no track record or policies.
I see another election coming down the line, as others have said, we need to be on the attack and get out retaliation in first, gloves are off!
harry mcaye says:
9 June, 2017 at 10:47 am
I fear if the SNP push ahead with the intended indyref in 2018/19 it will be lost and possibly by more than 2014, putting it off the agenda for 20 years”
So we just accept that we are out of the EU for good, with and for England?
2014, vote NO or lose your EU citizenship for good explained BetterTogether.
We have had the Ulsterisation of politics in Scotland thanks to The Ruthsfuhrer.
If the Tories at WM do a deal with The OO/DUP that will complete the job for the whole UK.
I was going to make a comment, but I can’t find the end of this thread.
Holy Christ the DUP are trying to destroy the peace accords.
Look on the bright side Tories will now drop opposition to second Indy ref as they will be more confident of winning it again.
I hope Joanna Cherry becomes new leader in Westminster.
Another random thought.
rUK and Scotland are increasingly different politically. This GE proves it. The Tories lose seats in rUK, gain in Scotland.
The direction of travel is different, for very different reasons. Yooninism isn’t a thing in rUK… Except NI, where the vote also got polarised between SF and DUP.
@ Onwards at 10.40am
‘But is the right tactic to downplay independence or robustly defend it?’
I think Betty Boop answered that at 9.46am:
‘I did try to get the local yessers to carry on after the indyref. There was just so much to talk about right from David Cameron’s announcement about EVEL and the Smith Commission that could have helped inform the public about how the union does not work for Scotland. SNP at local level discouraged yes engagement after indyref (there were some significant and notable exceptions). That resistance has, I think, cost us dearly.’
The case stands, the cause is just, and the facts are on our side. The argument doesn’t go away just because of this election. And to anyone who says, ‘Just stop going on about independence’, the answer is simply: ‘You want me to abandon my country’s future. I won’t.’
As a long term SNP member, it was obvious months ago that there was lethargy in SNP branches who were having difficulty in getting normally enthusiastic members to help with campaigning.
This was not down to “election fatigue” but to the fact the SNP leadership was not reading doorstep vibes and leaving canvassers and supporters with no clear message to give out.
With Nicola Surgeon introducing indyref2 unexpectedly, the opposition immediately accepted the challenge and went straight into campaign mode before the local elections and before Mrs May announced a GE.
At an SNP branch meeting we required help, and questions were asked of a visiting senior SNP politician on what response should be given to doorstep questions on currency, pensions and all the things that were problematic in indyref1 – because these were the questions being asked on the doorstep, whether we liked it or not.
Astonishingly we were told the SNP was not in indyref2 campaign mode, ignoring the fact that that the opposition were and there was not a single answer to the currency issue or any of the problems arising previously.
There was also major failure to capitalize on retaining and using the surge in branch membership to our advantage and a huge number have drifted away. The ivory tower syndrome is evident in the leadership and we need to make sure we do not go the way of Labour which took decades to decline but at the moment despite our current success, the trajectory is downward.
Around two thirds of those voting have voted for Unionist parties. We cannot ignore that and need to rethink our entire strategy to win them back.
Just heard the Minger on the Wright Stuff virtually admit that the Libdums will work with the Tories on an issue by issue basis , their price , obviously , will be another referendum at the end of the negotiation which gives most Tories what they want , A GET OUT of Brexit.
Also frees them from association with DUP which would be toxic for them.
Courage brothers do not stumble! Remember the downer post 2014? For every snake there’s a ladder & talking of snakes, who was the idiot on here who constantly insisted that Theresa May wasn’t an idiot?
Make no mention of Indi 2 until Brexit facts are known. The Uk parties and the MSM will keep banging on about it trying to sicken people of it.
We need meat on the bones of Indy 2, right now we only have fresh air, so no point in even discussing it.
EVEL would actually benefit Tories as they won an actual majority in Tory England (297 out of 533 with 1 seat to go); that’s around 55%+ of those seats; but I assume it won’t matter much as they only have a veto over England-only laws and nothing else. They’ll come in with DUP anyway.
You have to love the irony. The Tory party is now relying on staying in Government by getting into bed with the political wing of an Irish terrorist group.
From what I can work out there is one seat remaining. A recount in Kensington with Labour narrowly ahead.
So the final totals look like:
Tory 318
Dup 10
Labour 262
SNP 35
Lib Dem 12
Plaid Cymru 4
Greens 1
Sinn Fein 7
314 for opposition parties, excluding Sinn Fein.
Tories need 322 for majority, with Sinn Fein and the Speaker not voting.
But if Sinn Fein could have the balance of power and prevent a Tory government, there would be huge pressure to take their seats – so 325 would be needed.
So looks like THREE fewer Tory MPs in Scotland would have prevented a Tory / DUP coalition?
Seats partly gained with the support of tactical votes against the SNP. Shows how foolish it was for Scottish Labour to do the Tories work for them.
Theresa May apparently outsmarted Nicola Sturgeon. I also saw a pig fly past ma windae a minute ago.
—————-
Phew…er RN, smirk.
Something’s never change..ffs people ..good SNP people championing Jeremy Corbyn all over Facebook and social media in the last few days.Never trust the British Labour Party in Scotland.Rule no1 in political warfare.They cannot be trusted..let’s face it Corbyn and co never wanted to be anywhere near Brexit negotiations.As for Nicola Sturgeon she was gifted an out re Europe by the Brexit clusterfuck and fluffed it with the goal gaping.All in all that’s two lacklustre campaigns she’s run in my humble opinion.
We’re now back where we were post 2014.She needs to get back on her feet dust herself down or stand aside.
Whatever she decides we are now a nation caught in the headlights and need to move quickly.Very disappointing.
Scottish LibDem MP’s backing up the Tories at Westminster? Want to stay in the EU That will go down well?
SNP members giving up on Independence. The raisin d’etre. Get a grip.
The SNP won.
Westminster is a rotten mess. A world laughing stock. True Polls were wrong again. The Pollsters gerrymandering. Making loads of money. They should be banned in the Purdah period.
The Tory swing in north east was bad enough but Im just catching up on actual individual results.
Jo Swinson…honest to God, I have not one ounce of faith in the people of Scotland. I was contemplating taking a 73 hour absence from it all but there is no escape regardless.
Now Im looking at the same old expense loving serial Scottish deniers telling me I don’t know what’s good for me on my screens and in my media.
And all these people who are giving it “Ah but just wait till Brexit takes hold, just wait and see!”…I fear you will be waiting a long time to see anything worthwhile reflected in any future votes.
This pessimist sees a horse door opening and the bolt may very soon begin
Footsoldier – great post. Hope someone high up in the SNP is reading.
heedtracker – for now, yes I’m afraid. I know it will hurt some hard and many lives will change for the worse but I honestly see a lot of hostility for another referendum so soon. Folk in our echo chamber think we’ll win one tomorrow. We won’t. The risk of an even worse result is real. I know for many on here time is ticking on and they may not have another ten years to wait but I cannot see a win in the next few years. Folk need a break from endless votes for one thing. The picture could look more favourable once Brexit happens, it’s just a crying shame that it will bring misery to so many.
While I’m on, I’m really gutted for my MP, Margaret Ferrier. Officially the hardest working Scot at WM. I thought the seat in jeopardy here was Lanark and Hamilton East. We scraped home there in an incredible three horse race. We only got one Labour leaflet through while Margaret had four. Maybe too many, some folk are funny, even too many leaflets can swing them – “where do they get the money for that”, etc. Even Sturgeon’s helicopter probably swayed a few loonies. Scottish cringe and all that entails.
The Isolater
Hang on, the leader of the massive SNP membership, with more MSPs than LabConLibs combined and more MPs than the LabConLibs combined, step aside. You’re taking the piss, right?
@Ken500
Maybe this will highlight to SNP Members ( and Im one of long standing) that Westminster is a waste of time.
All we do is play their games and dance to their tune.
It serves us absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
Would anyone notice if their SNP MP wasn’t in Westminster?
Fred says:
9 June, 2017 at 11:16 am
Courage brothers do not stumble! Remember the downer post 2014? For every snake there’s a ladder & talking of snakes, who was the idiot on here who constantly insisted that Theresa May wasn’t an idiot?
Rock, or The Rock, and his idiot sidekick reluctantnat. Such is trolling and online commenting.
What a difference a pointless GE makes?
link to archive.is
“Let’s take Jim Wells, the DUP health minister in Northern Ireland. At a hustings in South Down last night, he declared that “the gay lobby is insatiable, they don’t know when enough is enough”. Bear in mind that in Northern Ireland, 47% of LGBT people have report
But it gets so much worse. He went on to declare: “The figures show that. The facts show that you certainly don’t bring a child up in a homosexual relationship. That child is far more likely to be abused or neglected …”
Jim Morris…totally agree.I have stated many times at my local branch and on here that we need to have clear figures on what Scotland contributes to the UK.
People have saying to my face at the doors the tired old mantra..too poor etc.For once they are right about the ‘too stupid ‘ part.
The SNP should have made it a priority to ditch GERS and get Westminster to open the books. If Westminster refused then it should have become an an election issue.
I agree that the SNP were wrong to sideline and ultimately kill the YES movement. Even at the last minute there was lukewarm support from the party for the last Glasgow March.
Finally : unless they have a change in strategy towards particularly the BBC and the media in general. .we will never win a REf. The BBC planned and oversaw the Unionist movement of votes in Scotland. As they did in 2014.
Personally, I think this was a great result, absolutely essential and it needed to happen before Indy Ref 2.
On many occasions on this site and others people have commented that voting intentions had to coalesce between just two strategic positions, Indy or unionism.
That happened yesterday, and unionism lost. Despite wall to wall propaganda from the media supporting unionism, they lost. Despite a progressive manifesto from Labour in England which no doubt bled some support from the SNP, they lost. I have little doubt, that some ex labour supporters returned to labour for this election with the intention of securing a UK Labour victory, it doesn’t look like that succeeded.
Scotland is up against one of the most venal and corrupt institutions on this earth, Westminster, and it was Westminsters campaign in Scotland, not Ruth Davidson’s, and they lost.
The SNP were right not to challenge directly the unionist campaign against Indy 2, they gave almost free reign to the media and the unionist parties, and unionism lost.
Call for Nicola to go, behave yourselves.
I’ve looked at a wide ranging number of results and it is obvious that a very large number of SNP voters switched directly to the Tories. In my view the only explanation is that they oppose membership of the EU (I.e. they were supporters of Brexit)
We still have supporters of Independence who voted Labour (Corbyn effect) and those who support Independence BUT out with EU membership..
We will struggle to win an Independence referendum unless we debate/review the EU question.
Ruth Davidson achieved the division she sought.
Corbyn won back support in Scotland.
The result can be spun as a set back but I remain convinced that the core support for Independence remains strong. My own view is to support EU membership. However 15/20 percent object to full membership so we need to listen.
Don’t give up folks! As disappointed as we are it’s another election win with a majority, so it’s game on for indy ref 2. Westminster is a shambles and with brexit looming it’s all to play for.
We can do this 🙂
@ Doug McGregor 11:12 am :
“Just heard the Minger on the Wright Stuff virtually admit that the Libdums will work with the Tories on an issue by issue basis , their price , obviously , will be another referendum at the end of the negotiation which gives most Tories what they want , A GET OUT of Brexit.”
It’ll be way too late for that – in fact I think we’re very close to the point NOW at which the Europeans (rightly IMHO) would refuse to rescind A50. There is no “get out” without agreement from the EU27 and I can’t see France, Spain, Luxembourg (to name but 3) agreeing to rescind A50 now, never mind in 20 months time.
The only “get out” is indy.
The very best case for England/Wales is EFTA status but I wouldn’t put a penny on that happening as they’ve pissed too many people off with their arrogant BS. My money is on no deal at all – which people need to understand would cause an IMMEDIATE increase in prices of imported food of between 15-40%. Nobody is telling E&W the truth though so they’re all blissfully ignorant (as usual).
My concern if, as appears more than likely there is another general election later this year, we could lose more SNP MPs.
As the unionists will almost target those SNP seats which they have reduced to small majorities.
Footsoldier at 11.12
You are exactly correct. I have never known a more uninspiring SNP campaign and most of our members had no enthusiasm to do anything. They only come out for independence and I must imagine that our strategists live in a bubble away from normal folk.
I have already written on several occasions to HQ about my concerns. We campaign of independence or we go backwards!
Please tell me Nicola Sturgeon isn’t planning to resign this afternoon?
That would be the biggest travesty in Scottish political history.
Sorry in my last post that should read as almost certainly
There will not be another election. 1. The Brexit negotiations do not provide the time for it. 2. The Tories can only fall back further – they certainly won’t get a majority. May will go and be replaced with a Brexit moderate. We should seek to argue an EAA arrangement [which seems likely but it makes us relevant]. I think our voters do not support our stance on the EU. With a soft Brexit the cassus belli for a referendum is gone. Then we wait for the old argument for independence to re0emerge: eternal Tory governments. We have stood on the head of a snake and have a few ladders to climb
@ Lochside 11.33
Quite so. The cautious managerialism and the avoidance of the core purpose of the SNP bears its own rotten fruit. A ‘stronger voice for Scotland’? Arf.
And to those who say we have 5 years to regroup while Brexit kicks in? We don’t. In 5 years we’ll be like Wales, completely colonised and subservient.
Actually, we’re there now.
We need an stv 3 question indy vote?
Remain in the UK
Independence in the EU
Independence outwith the EU
Keeps the independence supporting brexiteers onside, their vote would be the lowest, and surely the vast majority of second preferences would come back to the indy in the EU side?
Brian Powell@11.31
Eh not quite what I said but if you think that appealing to Labour Party voters to vote for Jeremy Corbyn is gonna delver what we all want then I’m afraid I’m not on board the same happy clappy bus as ypurself.
As I say she can get. back up and go again but we need real firebrand stuff at the moment.Anyway wait to see what she responds with today.
I’ve officially become a member of the Twateraty.
I set up a account just to support GAP in this.
link to twitter.com
C’mon, folks, lets start getting better organised and coordinated.
Let the politicians get on with their roles while we grow the ‘Yes’ movement into a force to be reckoned with.
uuugh, all this election stuff is making my head hurt.
Gotta watch Roland Garros semifinal Murray vs. Wawrinka now…
Will Andy be British or Scottish today? 😉
Scotland voted 62% to 38% for EU membership. If their is another EU Ref they would do the same?
SNP voters voting Tory. Dream on.
The GE election re aligned on Independence. Lower turnout. SNP won. 10 Scottish LibDem MP’s supporting Tories at Westminster. They support EU membership. That would not be advisable. People were told vote Labour in Scotland get Tory. It should concentrate some minds. People are warned. Will they ever learn?
SNP hold the left of centre balance of power in Westminster. Hold all power in Scotland.
If there is another EU Ref in Scotland. 62% – 38%?
Ruth and BBC Scotland – The real coalition
link to indyref2.scot
Looks like the maybot is heading to see Betty to cling on to power. I am completely ashamed of the people of Scotland this morning. If they chose Tory policies, let them have them.
On Monday morning in Holyrood, the FM should make a statement withdrawing mitigation for all the austerity policies. Bring everything in line with England and let the stupid bastards suck it up. Just like a here’s what you would have won in reverse.
I only slept for an hour and a half as I was so angry, frustrated and in despair of clowns who voted against their own country
Nicola due to give a speech. On STV.
Have you seen the front page of the Daily Mail
Theresa May flanked by the DUP all wearing their OO Sashes
U L S T E R I S A T I O N.
You want it simple, then there it is. Last night this country irrevocably changed. The Constitution won the election .
Now the Tories have brought on board the N Ireland bigots into the Conservative fold down south as well as in Scotland.
Sad sad day ,but a day which will galvanise me to fight even harder the next time. Chins up people. We are playing snakes and ladders with real snakes dressed in blue and orange.
You can be as defeatist as you like and sit down and feel sad,but when you are done get back on your feet and get ready to march. We go into battle again and again until we win.
We know our enemy and their tactics even if the SNP do not.
Wrong campaign
Absolutely ashamed of Scots.
I went to bed close to tears at 3am when exit polls were coming true. Truly gutted.
I’ve tried hard to read lots of analysis on Twitter, and read the 200+ posts here. I’m getting no hope.
No matter how it’s spun, like Kez told folk vote Tory, I find it abhorrent that Tory share almost doubled, voters put that cross in the box.
We have a huge swathe that moved to unionist hard Brexit, rape clause, and assorted filth May produced. We had security farces down south, police cuts that arguably saw people killed.
I think indyref2 will be taken off the table by Nicola, as some kind of nod to defeat. I even read last night rumours of her leadership being questioned. This morning, the media are still saying education was an issue.
The money, the media, the dark ads and arts have worked. There is no way that won’t be built on.
If you are able, make a Plan B. If you aren’t, I’m so sorry Scots don’t give a shit.
That election result convinced me Johann Lamont was right we Scots are just not genetically programmed to make political decisions and I wonder how many of these “Proud Scots” who voted against their country yesterday will be singing Flower of Scotland at Hampden tomorrow.
Graeme
While the old chestnut of Scotland being Too Wee and Too Poor is obviously rubbish – after yesterday’s result it would appear that there is no shortage in Scotland of those who are
Too Stupid.
@Sher Shon Shez
10:44
I agree we need to prepare groundwork and message for next independence referendum.
2014 informed us what their line of attack would be, their strengths and weaknesses.
Brexit has dealt with EU attack. We need to sort plans for currency, central bank, defence, etc. If need be plan on efta rather than full membership of europe if it has more chance of delivering maximum yes vote.
And we need to call out unionist lies when they make them.
Tories from Scotland giving May a majority. Thatcher illegally devastated Scotland. Took all the Oil revenues. Tory high taxes ruined Oil sector. 40% since Jan 2016. UK Union costs Scotland £20Billion. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Trident, Hinkley Point, HS2 and Heathrow. £500Billion borrowed. Scotland has to pay £4Billion a year off the deficit. Not borrowed or spent in Scotland.
Useless Farron’s 10 LibDem MP’s from Scotland.
we have a very volatile electorate, i was unable to call this election. i did point out we would lose a fair few seats.
it seems many yes and snp supporters have backed the tory brexit movement, so let it run………..
focus will now turn to brexit, this project will not end well, as it happens, keep your eyes on the polls and watch support for yes climb
this isnt over, this is the beginning
btw, who should lead yes2?
So tremble, false Whigs, in the midst o’ your glee,
For ye’ve naw seen the last o’ my bonnets and me!
Never mind, there will be another one in 6 months!
35 SNP seats are probably more representative of Scotland just now anyway. The unbelievable onslaught from everywhere and still managed to get those seats. The election in Scotland was fought on devolved issues and the constitution. Pockets of self-interest like the NE fishermen and borders landowners /farmers are traditional Tory voters. As we now know, the fishermen had seen the SNP as a vocal opponent of the Common Fisheries Policy but believe they are going to get a good deal from Brexit so back to Tory they go!
Ironically Kezia Dugdale telling Labour voters to vote Tory probably has helped the Tories back into government. What the DUP will want for their support is a bit scary – Direct Rule again?
A bit of a breather to see where the Brexit deal takes us and then everything up for grabs again. Alex Salmond gone is a big scalp for the Tories but he has been unwell recently and with his bereavement, he needs to recharge his batteries. He and Angus Robertson as strategists and unfettered by day to day stuff will be a bonus. Lots of other good people gone but some I can’t even recall. Such is politics.
Not all bad from my point of view but I agree Nicola Sturgeon has to take stock and make no hasty decisions.
Christ Nicola you gave me the fright of my life.
Oh come on we will always be able to rely on the Tories to win back support for the SNP.
They only have to be themselves.
The loss (hopefully temporarily) of Angus Robertson from our representation at WM is a grievous one along with similar fates for Eck and other leading SNP MPs.
Every week at PMQs Angus posed carefully constructed questions to May which demanded clear unambiguous answers and not once can I remember her answering a single one.
This leads me to ask just what are the powers of The Speaker as regards the regulation of debate.
Surely it goes beyond calling members to speak and ensure that they behave themselves.
Should he/she not have the power to pull up the PM or Minister being questioned if they avoid answering unambiguous questions and insist on an answer being given.
If not why not?
Such powers for The Speaker if enforced would go a long way to eliminate the Yah Boo pantomime that PMQs has become.
My advice to young Scots – get skills, develop a professional approach to your job to increase your value and gtfo of the UK.
You don’t have enough Scots who are both smart and ballsy enough to make a difference for you. Its you that counts, not this island of imbeciles and quizlings and only you can improve your life
Oh come on why haven’t we heard from Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling yet?
Think Lizzie is gonna give her a skelp and say wtf have you done wumen!You want me to deliver a speech with you and N Irish Unionists Gid luc wae that May.
On turnout – the weather was vile yesterday. I was out in it all day and soaked through. I even lost my rosette to it.
The Greens lost nearly 55% of their votes. The libdums were down 90k. We lost about a third. All the smaller parties were squeezed. The meeja made this a presidential race between Jeremy and Theresa and the public bought into it.
Please don’t think this was a stunning victory for anyone. Least of all the voters. We have an instable government when we actually need a strong one. Both the presidential candidates have issues. Theresa fu@ked her majority by hubris, and Jeremy “leads” a party which is split in two. His MP’s hate him. Nobody won here. The public in particular. Nobody is going to get what they were voting for.
I expected there to be several new Labour and Tory MPs in Scotland.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
However, I had thought perhaps up to 15 total and support down to 40% was the most, so disappointing.
Indyref2 just got a lot less likely this administration.
More so if a progressive pact of some kind wrests power from the Tories.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
A key danger for SNP strategists is that they misinterpret the results.
It may seem that with only a 3% increase in SLAB vote then it is ‘obvious’ that most of the SNP loss in support went to the Tories and that therefore a nudge to the right might be prudent.
However, that discounts those SLAB15 voters who were sufficiently anti EU enough to join Ruth Davidson’s consolidation effort. Admittedly an unknown quantity but who would be surprised if it were not significant?
So it is not at all impossible that nearly all of the SNP loss in support went to SLAB(Corbyn in reality)
So, it seem Scotland despite everything is set to once again be run by a failed extremist Tory Prime minister in collusion with a bunch of neanderthal, homophobic, paramilitary Belfast bigots.
Independence now please.
I’m betting the country is full of people regretting their voting choices about now.
Heedtracker: “idiot sidekick reluctantnat”
Sick burn.
@ Robbo 12:26 pm :
“Think Lizzie is gonna give her a skelp and say wtf have you done wumen!You want me to deliver a speech with you and N Irish Unionists Gid luc wae that May.”
You mean she’ll object to tories doing a deal with the party run by SIR Jeffrey Donaldson?
I think you need to get a clue how the UK “works” – the DUP/UUP are the reason the English tories never stand in NI. The DUP/UUP are like the ultra-right wing of the tory party with added bile/mysogny/homophobia/hatred of everyone other than protestants. They (almost) invariably vote in favour of tory govts anyway, always have & always will.
Chic McGregor
Yes, vote Labour get Tory, and for the Daily Record, support Labour get Tory.
Actually it seems confused right now, since the DUP are saying they have not yet reached an agreement with the Tories.
listening to GMS Scotland in car just before noon and heard Stephen Jardine, whom I normally thought was one of the BBC’s better presenters, being very quick to cut off the English guy who was campaigning for the SNP in North East when he said that the most aggressive people towards the SNP were the many local English residents.
This was apparently said in response to earlier claims that SNP was anti English but obviously didn’t suit the BBC’s narrative.
Having read the comments I no longer feel as devastated. Yes – we lost seats; yes – it is a bit of a kicking; but, hey, we still have more seats than everyone else together and we have the triple lock. I also think the media caused this. The relentless pushing of the English two party agenda with everyone else squeezed out nationally and the media in Scotland so anti-independence, this was inevitable. In many ways it was a remarkable results for the SNP. I have a friend who may well have voted Labout because she felt she needed to show JC that his views were good ones. She strongly supports independence. How many others are like that out there? Time to regroup, take stock and move on. We may not be independent as quickly as we thought but ‘it’s coming yet, for a’ that’ – and in the not too distant future.
To me it looks as if the UKOK Parties have all congealed under three banners—Blue,Red and Yellow.
Now we know who we are facing at the Independence Referendum—after all Ruth,Kezia and Willie all told us that UKOK was their AGENDA in the General Election.
They put everything they had into the Unionist UKOK vote…..THEIR CUPBOARD IS NOW BARE—- FOR ALL TO SEE !
Off Topic slightly.
NORTH-EAST FIFE.
Scottish National Party Stephen Gethins Votes 13,743
Liberal Democrat Party Elizabeth Riches Votes 13,741
Conservative Tony Miklinski Votes 10,088
Labour Rosalind Garton Votes 4,026
That was close,but not surprising in a St Andrew’s University constituency.
I wonder if openly gay Ruth Davidson is looking forward to meeting the homophobic Belfast bigots who are now her masters.
link to telegraph.co.uk
Chick McGregor says:
9 June, 2017 at 12:29 pm
I expected there to be several new Labour and Tory MPs in Scotland.
It looks as simple as YES voters just not going out to vote yesterday, huge English turn out, low Scottish.
Its hard not to be annoyed at no show YES voters yesterday but we all now live under the most extreme anti indy attack propaganda possible. Everything we watch, see, hear is designed to kill off the YES vote in us all.
It obviously works and its how tory power is held, wielded and dominates Scottish life today.
The lesson from Jezza’s staggering success is, fcuk the media, hit the hustings.
I’m feeling better a wee bit.
Small comfort at the moment, but maybe, just maybe this result won’t kill off our ScotRef referendum, but will absolutely destroy any and all complacency about cruising to victory.
All is not lost, not by a long shot, but it’s time to stop talking about what she should do, and start doing the things we’ve all talked about.
1. “Sort” the Broadcasting pish out.
2. Secure a Judgement from the Court of Session for the status of Scotland’s inalienable sovereignty.
3. Get “”Europe” over here, in Scotland, and helping us to win.
All three of the above can come together; if we are legitimately sovereign, we can take control of broadcasting in spite of Westminster’s objection, and we invite the sovereign broadcasters of Europe to lend us their facility to set up a transitional news station.
Interesting from Skawkbox today link to skwawkbox.org
I’ve read before commenting, and nothing has changed my view.
I am gutted and mortified by Scots. You can blame Kez if you like, but voters brought us here.
Even just on the last 6 weeks Tory filth, the vote share almost doubled. I don’t care where they came from, how can this be a left leaning country?
England shifted to the Left, and we shifted to the Right. Around 13% SNP vote went to the Right for a unionist Brexit.
Indyref2 will be off the table, probably even by SNP.
I can’t find anything positive in this outcome. The unionists have got what they invested in, Ulsterisation.
Some fishermen now have a 20 year old Tory to represent them. Good luck with that at the Brexit negotiations. In the Westminster muck up. Some do not like following Westminster rules or paying UK taxes.
Hope Andy wins.
Something else I meant to say, wrt the media. Let’s not forget what happened to the two SNP MPs who were alleged to have committed criminal acts and compare that to the Tory MP who has just been reelected while facing criminal charges. Why is the media not all over that? We’ve been too nice and too careful becuase of the way the media has treated the SNP. Time to begin to take the gloves off….
@ Robert Louis 12:42 pm :
“I wonder if openly gay Ruth Davidson is looking forward to meeting the homophobic Belfast bigots who are now her masters.”
She’ll be absoultely fine with it.
Only interest Ruth has is in Ruth – she’s no campaigner/defender of lgbt rights – and is utterly facile. She’d believe the moon was made of green cheese if it got her into Westminster….
Wee ginger dug says wise words as always.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Heedtracker
Even allowing for the rain and voter fatigue effects, which undoubtedly were present, I think the double whammy effect I highlighted would still be significant.
There are other factors too of course.
The negativity of some folk. The SNP won. They hold all power in Scotland. The Westminster mess will increase support for IndyRef in Scotland. It will also concentrate the minds of some complacent individuals. All to play for. It is just a re alignment. There is still major support for an IndyRef in Scotland especially if the Tories remain in power in Westminster.
Higher turnout in an IndyRef.
Let’s not forget that once the Berxit horrors are known people will think again about whether or not they want indyref2.
And 16 and 17 year olds will again be able to vote.
@Valerie
Isn’t it more the chance SNP went to Labour and Labour ( especially Blairites) went over to Tory?
All in all a really strange election in itself
Called quickly and nothing happened at all for first 3 weeks
Labour Manifesto was costed and surprised many
Theresa May started a personal “ruth style” campaign and then was an utter shambles and then went AWOL.
Lets leave the One Show escapades altogether.
Manchester and London Attacks underminded any attempt at Strong and Stable ethos
Electioneering impacted by post attacks downtime and SNP manifesto launch date screwed.
SNP strategy was all based on responding to a Tory Majority. They were like watching the T-rex in the far distance while forgetting the 2 velociraptors rapidly coming from the sides!
No one in Scotland cared about Dodgy Finance issues or Rape Clause and other horrid policies from Tory Party.
Scottish Labour got Tories elected.
At the end of the day, everyone has lost.
Vestas says:
9 June, 2017 at 12:34 pm
@ Robbo 12:26 pm :
I know exactly how it works my auld son. I served there for many years. She’ll get a skelp anyhow as it will mean DR in NI which will be a disaster. Do you really want the crap to start again!? jesus.
Triple lock in Scotland but unfortunately a triple lock for the Orange Order – toehold in Glasgow Council, WATP MSPs in Holyrood and now DUP able to pull strings in Westminster. 🙁
In Scotland, three political parties stood on a single issue platform of opposing IndyRef2. They FAILED, and in fact Ruth Davidson and her wider party have failed spectacularly.
Yes, of course we’ve had casualties, but this had to be expected when the battle in Scotland was fought on a binary option. The SNP are the only party with an overall majority and ‘No to IndyRef2’ has landed face down in the mud.
Chin-up folks!! 😉
BBC wind up their GE coverage with really really sad music, sad, so so sad violins, playing out this sad sad sad, nae tragic day for everyone, even Nic Robinson’s close to greetin:D
@Ken500
Hold all power?
The minority Holyrood government?
Totally Ignored MPs in Westminster?
I’m all for positivity but lets not go overboard. There may be arguments regards still high feelings for Independence but there are serious underlying issues here and no simple fixes. You mention re-aligment, im thinking for crossroads and an urgent steer manoeuvre needed.
For instance…what arguments should SNP start making?
Tories Bad?…that didn’t work last time.
Labour Split?…People in glass houses
Brexit?..Do people care, or know enough to even care?
Independence…John Swinney even seems confused.
This is all too raw of course so soon after last night but the negativity some of us feel is justified I reckon
On the bright side the EU negotiations became a whole lot livelier.
Vestas @ 12.54pm
I think being elected to Westminster is just about the last thing on Ruth Harrison’s mind.
She did not put herself forward to contest any of the Westminster seats yesterday – even the ones which from the day the election was called, were Tory targets.
She has her platform at Holyrood, there, she is a big fish in a small and – in her own party’s case – a stagnant pond.
Thanks to the PR voting system, at Holyrood, she has a job for life, she does not have to put here fate in the hands of the little people who go into that voting booth and place their crosses where they will.
She does not need to win a constituency, she will top the party’s list, and will automatically get a seat.
But, within the wider UK Conservative and Unionist Party, she is small beer. To the Tories who matter – down there in central London, she is even-less important than the sash wearers in Belfast.
And, she cannot again play her: “No Indyref2” card. The SNP will NEVER reject Independence. A “softer” Brexit may delay it, but, Indyref2 WILL happen, or all the BUM trumpeting that it is now dead.
Ruthie will have to, at the next GE, if, as we suspect, there is another one soon, defend the indefensible, the Tories’ social welfare and warfare plans.
And, at the next Holyrood election, she will have to produce a policy other than: “No Indyref2”. She will not be allowed to have: “Scotland only” policies, she will have to dance to LOndon’s tune.
The only way Ruth Harrison can ever get to Westminster will be as a life peeress.
Dugdale 6 MP’s. ‘A nail in the coffin’ Really? For whom. Total lack of self awareness.
Chick McGregor says:
9 June, 2017 at 12:59 pm
Heedtracker
People tend not to like being excluded, especially young people. That’s the real skill of BBC tory propaganda, making Scots YESers feel outsiders. Right now, BBC 1 tv news, SNP lose,Scotland turns away from independence, BONG…
This is how tory power works. BBC Scotland did a fantastic job selling Ruth D, BBC UK clearly failed with May. How did Jezza get round and past the tory creep show of Brillo led vote tory fury?
May’s frolic through wheat fields now more reminiscent of film North by Northwest.
Negativity never won any thing.
The SNP won. Hold power in Westminster. Balance of power. Hold power in Holyrood. In the Councils. Under STV, D’Hondt etc. All imposed in Scotland to favour Unionists. The GE is s just a Ref alignment on Independence. A lower turnout. If the Tories retain power in Westminster by hook or by crook. Independence support will rise.
The Scottish Unionist MP’s wil now tie themselves in knots at Westminster. Not a good place to be. LibDems who support the EU, supporting the Tories. Not advisable. Have they not learnt their lesson yet. Another GE? How many will that annoy especially frustrated voters. Just vote for Indy for strong and stable government.
Battle lost? Naw it’s always about winning the War of Independence, Scots are not going back in the box. The Unionists made the GE about stopping the referendum, so now we know how the land lies.
The SNP need to get the fire back in their bellies, remember the tories tore up the rule book and threw it out the window!
See all soon at Freedom Square.
@galamcennalath – under the “The Voice of Sanity” post on 4 June, you made the following points(10.29pm) in a discussion with Dave McEwan Hill (9.36pm) and Lizg (10.38pm)
With each day that passes I am becoming more convinced that we are seeing a ‘very British’ coup d’état by the saner elements of the Establishment.
Leave was never meant to happen and the Scots were never meant to be given another chance at Indy so quickly. But with EURef the Leavers won and the loony right grabbed the initiative.
It’s an almighty mess. A corner the Tories have painted themselves into.
The solution? Engineer a hung parliament. There will be no mandate for anything other than a soft Brexit. Indy avoided. The City saved. The economy saved. All problems solved, simply.
Well called. On one of Nana’s links, I read that large funds were pouring into the Conservative party from January to March this year from, among others, the oil industry. There is also this Ferret post. link to opendemocracy.net.
So, a lot of money is collected to pay for election leaflets, mail shots and party outerwear. When everything is ready, a ‘snap’ election is called.
Scottish Labour voters have given UK an ultra right wing Conservative Government for the next 5 years,
Scottish Labour voters should hang their head in shame,
but they won`t because they have no shame they are Scottish Labour voters.
Stoker 9.33am. Yeah i was being magnanimous crediting 2 of them with a brain cell lol,but when you’ve lived abroad and down here in England for years as I’ve done. When you go home on holiday and listen to the level of the yoon intellect,i really despair for Scotland. These people really really need to read (can they)a book,or get out more.
cirsium says:
All of that is interesting but is it even remotely likely that the EU are going to give the UK a soft Brexit?
Handing out soft Brexit’s is one of the surest ways of weakening the EU very badly.
If UK is given soft Brexit, everyone else in the EU with tory/Farage/BBC/Murdoch/Dacre style make up, will also want one too.
Once hard Brexit kicks in, see how much the new tory vote in Scotland enjoys life in the Brexit UKOK zone.
I’m not feeling too dispondent. Feel very bad for my local MP Roger Mullin, who has been brilliant in Parliament.
We had 6 MPs in 2014 and had a mandate for a referendum. Today we have 35 and somehow don’t??
I can’t help feeling that 35 seats was the result people were feeling we were going to get in 2015 but the SNP in the words of warlord Ruthy Mugabe ‘smashed it’. Expectations were knocked out the park but the SNP two years on have still won.
I spoke to folk who voted YES who were leaning this way and that and the MSM did have a huge impact IMHO. I think the party played a fairly safe manifesto which was perhaps drowned out by an unusually radical uk labour manifesto which proved attractive to people who voted YES but who aren’t particularly politically engaged.
The SNP don’t actually have to do anything. Having Alex salmond and Angus Robertson home might be an ideal bit of support for the party. Two huge talents with more time on their hands – they are here to stay.
We should sit and watch and let the chaos unfold. Tories forming alliances with a party of extremists who want a hard Brexit and labour who still have a PLP dominated by blairites linked to the city of London. It will be interesting to see what happens there.
We’ve peeled back the layers and found out more about the country we live in and that’s good.
For all the comments on social media about independence being dead in the water, if they were so confident of that then they should be shouting ‘bring it on’. They won’t because they are terrified we would win.
How would one get rid of the D’Hont system?
IMO given the constitution in Scotland it makes for weak government.
All pretty depressing. Met some folks, while delivering leaflets intending on giving Corbyn their vote because, ‘ we love Corbyn’. Yes voters, SNP last time. Knew we would take some losses, but seems too many ‘love’ Corbyn not realising just what that has meant and will mean, for Scotland.
Considering that before 2015, we had just 6 SNP MPs at WM, standing up for Scotland, we are still doing damn well. The media onslaught, their total support for the unionists, their propaganda, worked. They made the GE about Scotland, independence, Nicola Sturgeon and Jeremy Corbyn.
May was deliberately kept low profile, except for a few minor appearances, while her state run media were in full love in mode of R. Davidson, rabid self serving Tory in Scotland, and full on hatred of J.Corbyn. Scots voted for him, feeling sorry for him, and wanting a Labour Gov at UK level. Oh dear.
Brexit? Did we hear much at all about that elephant in the room, no.
Scotland now has choices. I would suggest at some point, making sure that every single household has a leaflet/small booklet, about what it is the Scottish government can and cannot do with devolution. Seriously, I know people who do not know which powers are devolved to the Scottish Parliament. We have 4, yes, 4 different voting systems in Scotland, thanks to the UK imposing that on us.
Next, I would means test all benefits to the rich, seriously my tory neighbours travel far and wide, they freaking love their bus passes! They are rich! Care for the elderly, not free unless you have no savings, the rich love their savings. Oh, and means test tuition fees. The rich tories love that their sprogs can go to Uni, free of debt, and then boast about how they are ‘loving working in London’ or abroad.
We are rewarding the rich and very well off in Scotland, that has to change. They complain about their bins, slag the SNP on ‘education’ but take the freebies anyway, including prescriptions. We need to start hitting them where it damn well hurts and they can suck it up, or leave with their tory votes!
Depressing, but not giving up, yet. Scotland is a great country, with SNP at Holyrood and WM, we still have some political leverage, let’s not let the unionists destroy what has been gained, and what amazing work has been done, by the SNP, to improve Scotland’s infrastructure, environment and the lives of all of her people. All benefit from that, and it’s being achieved after 300+ years of being shackled to the so called union and against huge odds!
Sorry long comment. Just saying what I feel and think at the moment.
Good recall, cirsium, and may well be the case.
However, the fact is, when stripped back, is our cause has lost heft and the forward momentum. The OO and unionists are rejoicing, vindicated, and the OO is legitimized more than ever. I feel revulsion at that.
What gets us back the forward momentum? As Bateman has rightly pointed out, for those that care how the EU looks at Scotland? Well, look, they don’t care that much about their EU membership, so let’s back off a bit.
If the hung parliament was engineered, you KNOW it’s for the benefit of the City, and Empire.
Expect Scotland to be exploited, aided by its resident Tories.
Farmers and fishermen of the North East, enjoy your future.
David 12.25pm. The same advice i would give to my son or daughter. Get a career/trade,or profession. Then put as much distance between yourselves and the ugly bigoted region that calls itself Scotland. Only fit for pensioners,children,and yoon bigots. God help us all.
Artyhetty 2.13pm. Definitely,i know family members who voted for ruthie and kezia,they are mortgage free have two pensions,substantial savings,yet get free bus passes,prescriptions,and winter fuel allowance. As i believe these powers are devolved,time the snp were f***in means testing them.
@heedtracker says:
9 June, 2017 at 12:43 pm
Its hard not to be annoyed at no show YES voters yesterday but we all now live under the most extreme anti indy attack propaganda possible. Everything we watch, see, hear is designed to kill off the YES vote in us all.
======================================
I know what you mean, it can be depressing at times watching it. However in the end it has the opposite effect on me. As others have said here, once your eyes are opened etc….
No matter how badly the SNP do in future I’ll never be going back to Labour (who I used to vote for) or vote for another party (unless pro-Indy). The anger in me over how they have lied and done down our country will never go away, short of us achieving independence. AS for the BBC – if the newscaster announced it was the one o’clock lunchtime news I’d pop my head out the window to check if it was night time.
No more easy rides for the well off yoon/white settler pensioner’s who abuse our system.
Let’s for a moment, think about where Scotland was 10 years ago, with the Labour party, in Scotland, at the helm at Holyrood. They were there for a goodly few years. They built new hospitals, with their PFI, for profit, huge profits, to private companies! Scotland’s NHS, and councils, are still paying £millions for those vanity projects, and will be for many years to come.
Labour, in Scotland, sent back more than a £billion to Westminster(!) because they could not ‘think of anything to spend it on’ in Scotland. Meanwhile, there was, ‘no money’ for special needs kids in serious need of support in schools.
They started to close down major hospitals, selling the land and buildings for a song, look at the absolute state of the old site at the meadows in Edinburgh. Old buildings left to crumble, while new shiny ones were built around them.
They mismanaged the trams project, wow, that was a costly exercise.
There must be many vanity projects that they embarked on, at great financial cost to Scotland under so called debolution. What a joke. Let’s not mention the new Firth of Forth crossing, a bridge that the Labour, Tory, Libdem, and the Greens, said that we did not need. Infrastructure, kind of crucial to a country such as Scotland, with many rural areas.
But no, we could have lost a major, major lifeline in Scotland when the old bridge became no longer fit for purpose. I hope the yoons and tory voters enjoy the new bridge which the SNP government saw the need for, paid for by Scotland. A crucial lifeline, for people living and working in Scotland and, you know to get to your holiday home, or just a day out in the highlands, driving across it in your 4 wheel drive Porsches.
Let’s go back a bit, look at what was, what could have been, with a Labour party intent on keeping Scotland poor, begging bowl in hand, subsidy junkie. Oh no, that awful black stuff, oil, it’s there for London, and the south of England, keep your hands off it Scotland! McCrone report, kept secret for 30+ years, which said that Scotland, ‘would be embarrassingly rich’ if allowed to be independent and keep their oil.
Unionists been keeping Scotland poor, SNP mitigating, cushioning terrible right wing blows to our most vulnerable.
If that is what the yoons in Scotland wish to continue, hell mend them!
Let’s not over react. What happened was that a rush of votes to Corbyn cost us about 6% of the vote and cost us many seats. Our tactic of “stop a Tory Government”was predicated on the view that in Scotland only the SNP could beat the Tories. That was the case two months ago.
There was no time to change that in the last two weeks the SNP, by default as the Labour vote climbed, became an irrelevant loser in the binary choice – a Labour or a Tory Government at Westminster
Which is why we must campaign for independence at all times and stop playing clever tactical games.
But it is easy to be wise after the event.
A river in Egypt.
heedtracker,
“who was the idiot on here who constantly insisted that Theresa May wasn’t an idiot?
Rock, or The Rock, and his idiot sidekick reluctantnat. Such is trolling and online commenting.”
You are the perfect example of Scots being too stupid to be independent.
Thanks to the unexpected Corbyn factor, May’s gamble has backfired for her and her party, but it has achieved the unionist aim of thwarting the SNP and independence.
Has it still not downed on you that the ONLY purpose of this unexpected election was to hinder the SNP’s plan for a second independence referendum?
The DUP are more right wing than the Tories and pro-Brexit.
In them Saint Theresa has found the perfect partners.
Thanks to the likes of you, 310 years on, Scots will still be talking about becoming independent from England.
Dave McEwan Hill,
“But it is easy to be wise after the event.”
Some of us were wise before the event but were laughed off by the pompous and clueless armchair pundits posting on this website.
I am sure you will still argue that if it hadn’t been for the “independence supporting” The National, the SNP would have lost even more seats.
It is time for you to finally accept that The National is milking gullible independence supporters, without having the slightest positive effect to the Yes or SNP vote.
Artyhetty spot on ma man, not enough people know all this, WHY,, is the Scottish goverment not highlighting this enough and let the people of this country know,,,,because as we all know the mooth is too busy spouting all the ” negativity” about the SNP, lets get out there and enlighten people… Why dont the SNP close it down once and for all, and all the rest the SNP have done for this once proud country
Dave McEwan Hill @ 15:29,
What you say makes sense, as far as losing votes to BLiS is concerned. The bigger shift to the Tories is more concerning, though.
But it’s very hard to avoid a two-party squeeze in a UK election, especially when in Scotland it’s turned into “3-against-1” on the BBC, which was positively lusting to give the SNP a doing-over, and had a good try.
For all that, the SNP still managthe election becoming a UK-only affair like all the previous ones had been.
Yes, we all hoped for better, but once the dust has settled-down, I think we might come round to better appreciating how well the SNP actually managed to do in the circumstances.
me @ 06:12,
Oops. One para became garbled somehow. It should read:
For all that, the SNP still managed to prevent the election becoming a UK-only affair like all the previous ones had been.
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