Sittin’ on a beach
Don’t panic, readers – I’m not about to make you look at all my holiday snaps. But after Thursday’s “Gone fishin'” post, I was buying milk in the local Co-op and got busted by a reader demanding to know why I wasn’t at the seaside, so this is for him.
On a personal note, one of the best things about the indyref campaign was how the profile of Wings brought me back in touch with people from the past. The old friend I used to climb trees with when I was a wee boy. The chap I hadn’t spoken to since primary school who turned out to have designed all The Shamen’s best record sleeves. The guy I used to trade dodgy Atari ST games with at the Craigshill Computer Centre and who now does something so secret I can’t even mention it.
And an old colleague from my days on a Small Business Organisation course at West Lothian College in the 1980s, who I’d lost contact with when I left Scotland (his personal life, and therefore contact details, were in some turmoil at the time, let’s say) and who, it turns out, has just jacked in a nice safe Civil Service gig and moved to Weston-super-Mare, the nearest seaside town to Bath, to follow his dream of starting a video production company.
So if any more of our unseen army of Wings readers (like the charming Phyllis from Maryhill, who very nicely accosted me on the train coming here, having been in the Bath area for a wedding) should happen to spy us in the bar later, and overhear some conversation about possible future collaborations, I’d just like to assure them that it’s purely coincidental, an inevitable offshoot from catching up about what we’re all up to these days. It’s not a work trip. I am on holiday.
Have a nice one Stu! You just can’t help yourself keeping an eye on us lot though, can you? 🙂
Photoshopped photie
Nae Donkey manure.
That sounds like a very professional political ‘honest gov, it wisnae me’ statement!
Whatever you’re doing, enjoy! And thanks for the past two years or so!!
U took scotland under ur wing now the people of scotland want to take u under our wing, anyone who sticks up for scotland will live on in the hearts of the scottish . Hats off to u
Those are some seriously scary footprints in the sand there Stu, look after yourself 🙂
What, you mean you really are just day-tripping from Bath? I had visions of you living it up in a hotel, being waited on hand and foot, and the separats having their own wee holiday in separat boarding kennels.
Cheapskate.
Enjoy your well earned break. Do just try and chill and recharge the batteries coz we need you for Round 2. We, your loyal readership, really appreciate all your graft and we have the dosh to keep you going, to beyond Independence. This is you job now. I also think, on that score, you need to be working for more than the Living Wage. Try some NUJ stats or something and I, for one, will happily chip in. 🙂
I was working in Bath, the week before the referendum, back home now, working from Scotland for the rest of the year, maybe back in Bath/Bristol, New year, hope we can hook up.
Milk fae the Co-op. You know Co-op Group contribute to the Labour Party?
Enjoy the beach.
Do you get any of that pier shite in Scotland? Serious question.
Enjoy yourself Rev. Is the roller coaster open?
Typical – I put a considered post onto a thread, only to find you’ve all buggered off next door! Hope you don’t mind sand between your toes, Rev. Keep relaxing.
That island in the distance looks like Steep Holm in the Bristol Channel, so Stu might well be in Weston Super Mare, happy sand castles 🙂
Not too many peers on that side, or the other for that matter?
The giveaway is the architecture of the thingy on the end.
Unless it is a cunning stunt and he is embedded in some pub in Bristol?
TYRAN
In Scotland Piers earn their living being useful places for Ferries, Fishing vessels and Puffers (Google it) to dock, not hosting Roy Chubby Brown, selling warm pints of watery bitter or teeth rotting sticks of rock. And they tend not to go on fire so often as their southern cousins.
Just for your information
Have a good holiday, we know you’ve earned it.
Some of us figured out he was in Weston-super-Mare at about quarter to one.
link to twitter.com
Where ever you are Rev, have a nice one, and it is none of our business what you are getting up to. Hope the rats are also having a holiday away from all the kittens. Mine was off with his harem of ladies when we were away. We are oh so glad he is neutered or we would be having talks with all the girls owners by now.
Enjoy. But as others have said, do not shop in the co-op.
Any friend of Labour is an enemy of us.
Looks like you have the beach to yourself. R&R with bucket and spade but obviously your smartphone to hand!
SWITCH IT OFF
Off topic I know, but has anyone got any links to pictures or footage of the demo at Pacific Quay? I never did have any joy with independence tv live.
Fair play to you.
You deserve a rest.
Morag
Well done.
@Natasha
Found this.
CH, thanks, that explains a lot. Will just have to wait for some kind soul who was there to post on Youtube. 🙂
It’s funny, I thought a few days back, I am not sure the Rev is the type of person to take his foot off the gas.
I am beginning to think we may be getting the wool pulled over our eyes.
Anybody can stick a photae o’the beach on here matey. You’re foolin’ no-one. There’s alert readers here for heaven’s sake.
Weston-super-Mare… What a name. Is it a place where you can trawl BIG seahorses?
Piers – none of that frivolous stuff in Scotland !
Does someone have a list of companies that came out against independence?
I have rejected all press and media and am looking to include companies.
Johann Lamont is sponsored by the Co-op, I believe.
Aw jeez, theres only two shops in my village and wan`s the co-op,
can I apply for a pass or an exemption.
Are members of the co-op not automatically members of Labour?
Anybody know?
You used to hang around Ray agostini’s atari shop in craigshill too? Small world
Facebook page with boycott the companies details
link to facebook.com
Sounds like you are re charging the batteries! Doing much the same, but mine includes canals and pubs.
Hard times…????
Ok, so where can I shop? In my small town we have co-op, tesco and a wee Scotsmid .. We have private butchers, bakers and green grocers, but no grocers. I have already scored one of our several tea shops off my list because of it’s over enthusiastic display of union flags. Life is getting complicated, Perhaps Lidles or Aldies, please don’t tell me anything bad about them, and I am suffering Marks and Spencer withdrawal symptoms already.
Hi Folks, having ditched the daily R and Sunday M after 40 years, I taken up delivery of my Sunday Herald. Can anyone tell me where you find (accurate) figures of paper sales. For example the drop in the battered and bruised Scotsman (well done Stu), Record Sunday Mail etc in the past month. Also the increase in sales of the Sunday Herald.
Mariaskid
Since being made redundant and becoming part of the undeserving poor ALDI has IMO been the best thing to happen to Scotland regarding the weekly shop, i cant speak for LIDL, but i hear its quality & value are similar. M&S were always treats for us anyway.
link to radiosaltire.org i’ve only just tuned in, it’s cool so far.
just thought, don’t forget the scottish CND, like i keep doing.
But I like holiday snaps – and we haven’t had pics of rats for ages.
Paula Rose
Google the NO campaign and photographs.
I like the Rev’s wee hairy things, plus we used to get pics of his wee pussy as well. Time we had more pets on Wings.
The Herald newspapers have now relisted themselves as “regional” newspapers so they need only publish annual or bi-annual sales statistics.
We know that the last one availalble for the Sunday Herald was about 25,000 pere dition.
The Editor now a has tweeted it is now over 50,000 since coming out for Indie.
I would guess the daily editions are soaring like lead balloons, as usual.
The Scotsman seems on death row, having downsized everything they could including the coffee brand.
Hope you’re having a good swally, Stu!
I live in the No village and have only one grocery shop. Guess which one it is? Aren’t I the lucky one!
link to scotlandreferendum.info
For anyone who ain’t seen it yet.
Anyone know a Mick Pork character on James Kelly’s website. The **** is saying I am a troll!
As you’re all apparently stuck for something to do, here’s something to read about a guy who’s on holiday at the moment. 😉
link to en.wikipedia.org
Muttley79
Mick Pork is a longtime poster for indie, mainly on the Guardian and maybe the Telegraph.
His venture out the newspapers and into the blogs here is quite recent.
He and James Kelly seem to go back some time.
@ Bugger (the Panda)
I’ve tried several times to post something telling you that membership of the Co-op (as in getting points towards a now non-existent dividend on your messages) is not the same as membership of the Co-operative Party; none of my posts has arrived, so this is my last attempt – if you really want to know how the party differs from Labour, you can find out on wikipedia – it may be the link I added which is causing trouble.
Test:
link to en.wikipedia.org
Did I hear the FM being booed in Gleneagles trophy ceremony? Disgrace.
thanks crazycat
Here’s a nice song about a beach –
link to youtube.com
Mariaskid, shop in Aldi and Lidl to your hearts content, both German, both more interested in keeping their customers content rather than keeping David Cameron happy and Aldi sell more Scottish produce than any of the other supermarkets put together. Also you cannot fault Aldi for quality.
Fergus Mac or anyone
What is this sponsorship of jl by the coop. Are our msp,s sponsored ?
Maybe showing my naievity here but thought I,d ask anyway.
Muttley, assuming you were ‘Anonymous’, I think Mick Pork was annoyed because you didn’t pick up on the sarcasm in his post. It’s a shame you’re sniping at each other when you’re both on the same side.
Colin Church with reference to your report of the First Minister being booed at Gleneagles. Can you see the Americans what ever their political persuasion booing their President. They certainly wouldn’t, they respect the office. Time to learn that methinks or I will be booing those three muppets who are in opposition.
The internet should fill in the gaps for all you shoppers.You can get all your hardware stuff and odds and sods from there.
I am going to open an account with Airdrie savings bank who i luckily have a local branch in Falkirk and shop at Lidl or Aldi.
@Bugger
The bawbag accused me of being a troll. Porkchops GTF!
Helena Brown
Same with Lidl.
Check out their fresh meats and the packaging. Top of the line in their class.
muttley79 – down boy and come to heel, now there’s a good boy – we know you’re not a trolly wolly and we love you lots, now have a pork scratching xx
Muttley79
I said he was new to (y)our place and style of blogging.
He is defo pro Indie but maybe perhaps not Scots?
Ask him, politely mind.
link to youtube.com oh, i do like to be beside the sea side.
🙂
@Muttley.
I just let Mick know you aren’t a troll.
Graeme Doig
Arguably the Labour Party grew out of the co=operative movement and the co-op is in fact a political party, which sponsors and finances MPs, including Ed Balls the shadow Treasury Minister.
By virtue of their membership of the co-op political movement, they are also members of Labour.
@Natasha
The problem with sarcasm on the internet is it does not work if you do not know the person who is being sarcastic. You just think they are being obnoxious.
@muttley 79
I know, it would help if we had an irony font. A smiley face helps too. I wasn’t getting at you, by the way.
Cheers Juteman. I have calmed down now.
Actually – getting back to the shopping theme, I’m a great fan of Lidl, you can get all sorts of German hardware.
@Paula Rose
Don’t tell me, you like their tools.
Their local manager is always happy to show me their latest offers. Last week I got a great deal on fork handles.
@Natasha
Yes, I know. Does anyone know what is wrong with this website, as it takes quite a while for posts to appear? I assume it is being attacked again.
@Paula Rose
Pets at home.
@BtP:
You shop at Lidl? I can’t believe it!
I acknowledge they have sometimes great deal on some piece of hardware. I wish they sold MacBook, too. 😐
Eek a hen – have you got pics of cocks? I don’t have a problem with them – less pecking.
Now Girls! You can see the Rev’s no here 🙁 however while he’s awa sunning hisel we’ve work to do
Its no good saying we should share out the constituencies for 2015GE we need to know which ones If we put the sort of party % we might be hoping for into Electoral Calculus we get the seats the SNP
Might not win : Incumbent
Tory 2
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk : Michael Moore
Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale : David Mundell
LibDem 1
Orkney and Shetland : Alistair Carmichael
Blab 17
Dumfries and Galloway : Russell Brown
Renfrewshire East : Jim Murphy
Paisley and Renfrewshire North : James Sheridan
Inverclyde : Iain McKenzie
Glasgow North West : John Robertson
Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch : Gregg McClymont
Airdrie and Shotts : Pamela Nash
Paisley and Renfrewshire South : Douglas Alexander
Rutherglen and Hamilton West : Tom Greatrex
Motherwell and Wishaw : Frank Roy
Dunbartonshire West : Gemma Doyle
Glenrothes : Lindsay Roy
Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath : Gordon Brown
Glasgow South West : Ian Davidson
Glasgow East : Margaret Curran
Coatbridge, Chyston and Bellshill : Tom Clarke
Glasgow North East : Willie Bain
and Scotland Votes gives another three
Ross, Skye and Lochaber : Charles Kennedy
Dunfermline and West Fife : Thomas Docherty
Glasgow Central : Anas Sarwar
Which of these would another party / significant individuaal be better placed to win?
BtP
Cheers. I’ll have a wee look into it. Need to get a bit more savvy to contribute here 🙂
Only have two shops and the Post Office in my village. The shops being a little cornershop and the CO-OP.
Started using the wee shop for some stuff, but it only has limited stocks and have to use the CO-OP for the wee essentials and totally bypass all the stuff with the Union Flag on it.
Having used ALDI a couple of times now, I have been quite impressed with amount of Scottish foodstuffs that they sell and it the main use a lot of the smaller independants and family businesses which can only be good.
They are also a heck of a lot cheaper. Got a couple of bags of messages yesterday for just over £26.00 which I think is excellent value.
Love the M&S bread and some of their other own brands, but don’t use now.
AultA
They used to do real Reinheitsgebot beer but they reduced the quality and now the same beer brand (their own) is not Reinhetsgebot.
Still tastes OK,
I prefer Jever myself, if available.
@handclapping
Michael Moore is actually LibDem, although of course there’s no real difference. Do you happen to know what his majority was? I’ve got a feeling the SNP came second in that constituency in the last GE (I’m in Roxburgh).
Oops, just checked, the SNP came 4th! Okay, this may be a hard one to pull off.
However, Paul Wheelhouse, who stood against Michael Moore in 2010, is a well-known, respected and effective MSP. I don’t know if he would be willing to stand for WM, but we might well do better this time round if he did.
Oh how I hope we can get rid of a few red tories in 2015.
Not easy though – big majorities.
The reluctant NOs and soft YESs have to now realise that the only way to guarantee significant more powers for Holyrood, in the medium term, is to start tactically voting out unionist MPs at general elections.
Tories of all colour need to be targeted.
@Muttley, just give yourself your name on Scotgoespop.
Number of concern trolls we have on there at times is nuts. Call themselves ‘anon’ most of the time.
Just found out an old couple (friend’s parents) voted NO because they “always vote Labour and a YES vote would have been a vote for the SNP”.
I despair.
I think there is a real difficulty in predicting the 2015 general election in Scotland by using the 2010 results. The Lib Dems have effectively committed suicide in Scotland by going into coalition with the Tories. If they had at least negotiated a good deal with the Tories then even that might have helped them a little, but they did not even do that. They got the AV referendum for being the scum’s political enablers, and even that got beaten easily.
SLAB have also been shooting themselves in the foot as well, and have had their own alliance with the Tories in thwarting Scottish self government. They still have mostly huge majorities but they have hardly done themselves any favours with the electorate.
@Scottish Skier
Cheers, but I really do not think I am going to get on with that Mick Pork character. Best to leave it now I reckon.
handclapping and others – get the analysis and stats going xx
The so called golf fans would do well to remember that no political leader has done more for Scottish golf than Alex Salmond.
Here in this neck of the golfing woods, we are extremely fortunate that there are highly enthusiastic, powerful backers keeping things buoyant. Whatever your thoughts on the bold Alex Salmond, there can be no denying his passion for the game and it can only be hoped that the next person at the helm continues to recognise the huge importance of supporting golf in this country.
Salmond’s intervention, and the lucrative alliance with Aberdeen Asset Management, saved the Scottish Open and it is now going from strength to strength. The Women’s British Open has backing through to 2019 – and will be played here four times in that period – while the Ladies Scottish Open was recently given a new prime slot in the schedule, the week before the British event, and an increase in prize money through a support package that is committed through to 2018. More importantly, the junior initiative of Clubgolf, which has introduced some 300,000 youngsters to the game, remains an integral part of the golfing landscape.
“This support is not stopping the day after we celebrate the next European Ryder Cup win at Gleneagles,” said Salmond a couple of years ago.
link to heraldscotland.com
@BtP:
Guinness is my preferred ale by far.
If it’s not available, I try to get a Belgian abbey beer such as Leffe or Grimbergen, preferably dark. They taste awesome.
The rest is just shandy. 🙂
But in your region, drinking beer is a high-treason, no? You risk your life every day. Hats off.
Ah Steep Holm, the Severns answer to Ailsa Craig. 😉
Heard Willie Rennie banging on about ‘extreme devolution’. What a stupid phrase. Especially from a leader in a party that has theoretically championed federalism for over 100 years.
@Another Union Dividend:
I read that ERC next European edition was to take place at le golf de la Boulie in Versailles. Is that correct?
Not having any hard data but my thoughts would be
Colin Fox, SSP and RIC : Glasgow East : Margaret Curran, CF et al would put up a good show, as they did with the Easterhouse canvassing and if they got her out that would really upset the Blab MSP selection for 2016
Greens : Glasgow North West : John Robertson concentrate the Green support they have in G’ow on this one seat and try and make Trident their cause there.
Tommy has said support the SNP but I’d have loved to see him in : Glasgow South West : Ian Davidson up against the chairchoob and his reclining seat 😉
Alex Salmond has done more to promote golf than any of these Unionists who swan around in their Pringle sweaters and have kept women out of their golf clubs through classic sexist behaviour which their wives tolerate.
AS is is big enough to overcome this just at the reception for Scottish Olympians in Glasgow.
Don’t these idiots realise that people who award these prestigious international events look not just at organisation but also the respect their democratically elected over moment receives in deciding whether to award other events to the country? You don’t need to agree with your government to respect them as the international embodiment of your country on the World Stage.
Those Glasgow and Dundee turnouts are just so off the norm. Are they so very different from the rest of Scotland?
Re the Co-Op. There are other institutions like trades unions which finance the Labour Party. Perhaps now that so many people have joined Yes parties it would be an idea to organise. Don’t just boycott places, but take over the local branches of things like the Co-op or your union. You can decide whether and to whom political levies go then – and endorsements and sponsored MP’s.
Which region is that dear? We brew the finest ales in the world and a well kent spirit.
Cearc, Cearc, Paula Rose needs some advice on Cocks n Hens from our resident Foul expert.
Any links on todays Bbc demo yet.
Graeme.
From the Co-op Party Wikipaedia entry:
There are four Co-operative Party members in the Scottish Parliament:
Claudia Beamish (List MSP for South Scotland)
Kezia Dugdale (List MSP for Lothian)
James Kelly (MSP for Glasgow Rutherglen)
Johann Lamont (MSP for Glasgow Pollock)
There you have it.
@handclapping –
Interesting suggestions there.
Ivan McKee is probably too busy to consider going into mainstream politics, but what a star he was in the campaign. I’d love to see him up against just about anyone, but even the idea of him hoofing someone like Anas Sarwar is delicious.
Lesley Riddoch versus Mags Curran would be another belter…
Mick Pork was a weel kent winder up of Tories and kippers on Political Betting. Don’t let his ascerbic sense of humour put you off. He’s a yesser.
@FergusMac
Some rotten vegetables there.
Community Councils nominations are due in two weeks, so if anyone wants to start at the grassroots we should consider putting forward candidates. Need to start clearing out old wood and start reasons for canvassing practise and tactics.
Microcosm and all that, change at all levels, a Community Council, Local, Regional, City, National and Westminster.
Grow grassroots community groups through various useful subjects and activities. Cohesion creates communication, support structures and canvassers that should be easily brought on board!
Twin prong strategy across the spectrum of Government on all levels!
I was at gleneagles and nearly ended in fisticuffs with several booing English nobs.There were a lot of English there and a lot of stuck up wheel heeled lot of no voters there on there standard life and RBS freebies sucking champagne glasses all day ,I am sorry to say it wasn’t a particularly representation of the Scottish electorate but that is golf in general.I played at Rowellan castle in Kilmarnock last week and heard a tablefull of middle class arses slagging of one guy from a table of ten who had voted yes
Enjoy your holiday, Rev. If you are where you think you are, does the Commodore Hotel in Sand Bay still serve a good meal and a decent pint of Butcombe Bitter?
@Betty Boop says: 28 September, 2014 at 2:05 pm:
“Have a nice one Stu! You just can’t help yourself keeping an eye on us lot though, can you?”
Let’s face it Ms Boop, ‘It’s dirty work but someone’s got to do it’. Do you think we DO NOT need a eye kept upon us? We are, after all the nearest thing the London Establishment has to downright revolution.
link to news.yahoo.com
Thanks folks . Have just given myself a wee history lesson in Co-op /Labour links.
The SNP won Glasgow East as recently as 2008 so its clearly winnable for them. The SSP and Greens were a long way behind, so the SNP would appear to be the best bet to get rid of Margaret Curran here…
link to en.wikipedia.org
@Calgacus says:28 September, 2014 at 3:18 pm:
“Enjoy yourself Rev. Is the roller coaster open?”
Roller Coaster? ROLLER COASTER?
You expect the Rev to go ON a roller coaster after just having climbed OFF the bloody biggest Roller coaster ever?
Sheeesh!
Paula Rose says she misses the photos of the Rev’s rats.
That reminded me about the night of the 18th Sept. On my way to the count I saw a large rat running across the road. Don’t panic, I live in the Borders and there has always been rats round farms. Plenty of food for them. Anyway, I slowed right down to let rattie cross the road. They are just little furry animals with as much right to live as we have.
@Kevin Meina –
Well done on keeping the heid.
We have to expect much more baiting and gloating, and – perversely perhaps – it will probably intensify as ‘The Vow’ is seen for what it is.
My Yes stickers remain on the car. The wrist-bands are still on. Have removed the poster from the upstairs window – more for family peace of mind than anything else.
Have had several dodgy looks from random strangers in supermarket car-parks, but encouraging smiles from others. Any locals who chin me about still having the stickers on the car will be told that Stevenston, Saltcoats, Ardrossan, Irvine and Arran all voted Yes. North Ayrshire fell to No because of…guess who? Kilwinning, Kilbirnie, (and either Beith or Dalry, forget which…)
Even in what some (unfairly) describe as ‘The Land That Time Forgot’, we nearly pulled it off.
Next time? we will.
davidb,
at this time,there is probably nothing better a Yes supporter can do for our cause than to join his /her union and make sure they represent the memberships views.
Trade unions need to speak for their members.Not the Labour Party.
@hamish says:28 September, 2014 at 5:02 pm:
“Piers – none of that frivolous stuff in Scotland!”
Whit! When I were a lad they certainly had one at Granton with the Herring Fleet going 24/7 and the Northern Lights Lighthouse tender berthed on the end of it.
@Mealer
I phoned my union hq (EIS) last week to check if I paid a political levy. Apparently our political fund is kept for fighting legal battles and does not go to any political party. The nice woman on the other end of the phone didn’t seem surprised by my query, so I asked her if she’d had many enquiries about this in the past few days. She admitted that there had been a fair few . . . !
Luigi says:
28 September, 2014 at 8:29 pm
Just found out an old couple (friend’s parents) voted NO because they “always vote Labour and a YES vote would have been a vote for the SNP”.
I despair.
I feel your pain, Luigi
Theres no other way to describe 55% of Scots-thick as pig shite.
Shoudnt really come as a surprise though-If Scots really wanted independence, they would have unshackled themselves from the GB corpse yonks ago!
I guess emigration, being cannon fodder for London etc , over such a long period,HAVE indeed taken their toll on the IQ of the remainder……….
Just been on twitter – lots of criticism of the booers – they are very angry – dishing out insults by the barrel load – we yessers are all bigots, hate our fellow Scots, delusional, loons, talk bollocks – you get the picture.
Also had someone say – bet I’m happier than U r – told him he was up too late – go to bed etc.
They are blazing that we r not still under the duvet
I’m all for Lanarkists idea of cutting our political teeth on Community Councils. Something we can do now and keep the momentum of the Yes efforts going
“Anyway, I slowed right down to let rattie cross the road. They are just little furry animals with as much right to live as we have.”
Absolutely right, and you are to be commended on your humanity. Good to know the 45 are kind people. It all fits, somehow…
The Scotland on Sunday newspaper had a stall at the east end of Princes Street, Edinburgh, today where they were selling copies of the paper plus an I Love Scotland Shopping Bag for £1 -What a Cheek!
Their sales are obviously plummeting, and they’ll soon have to give the paper away!Both the Scotsman and its Sunday sister paper rarely have anything positive to say about the SNP Scottish Government. They lack balance in their news and reporting and have nothing to offer the progressive 45% who voted YES and want political change in Scotland.
We need a rebalancing of the hostile MSM to fairly reflect the views of the nationalist movement in Scotland.
WINGS,NEWSNET,BELLA,BATEMAN BROADCASTING and others have led the way in holding the British Establishment to account and providing a forum for progressive views and debate. I await with interest to see how they develop and collaborate in the coming weeks and months.
Natasha,
Well done you! We need much more of this.
@nigel – about 25% could easily be persuaded to vote Yes – they want more powers but scared to take final leap.
Only about 27% feel truly British.
link to lordashcroftpolls.com
I had a look at the Coop party when I lived in deepest blue England and all our deep blue Tory voters shopped at the Coop and unknowingly financed beasts like Dennis Skinner (shudder, really my dear that man).
You turn up at the members meetings of your local retail Coop and offer to be Secretary. 3 years on you’re in and can put yourself forward as a delegate to the regional conference of the Coop party. Then you can start to dissasociate them from Labour saying that now it is the Greens that most closely align with co-operative values.
I am on my local community council – it is a place to provide a voice, not create division.
@WRH2
I also seen many large rats on the 18th.They all voted No
@Mealer “trade Unions need to speak for their members. Not the labour party”
Noticed some people said trade union members could withdraw their contribution to the labour party, while continuing to pay their Union dues.
can the contribution be sent to another party like SNP, SSP or greens?
In other words can the member decide where his/ her political contribution goes?
@ Ian Brotherhood
Ian, we’re having a street stall/recruiting drive on Saturday, any chance could you let us have a supply of SSP membership application forms?
@Lanarkist,
Good idea re Community Councils.
We need to get more Scots involved at this level.
For too long have we let other people run this aspect of our lives.
Time we got off our ar5es and made the decisions for a change.
@Paula Rose
So you don’t think the care and compassion shewn by the arguments of the Yessers should have a voice?
Ronnie,
Chicks… not my favourites at the moment. What with one thing and another happening I am rather behind with despatching a large brood. Yesterday I found a dozen of them all up in my elderbushes/trees, stripping all the berries! No elderberry sauce on my chicken this year.
@ben madigan
can the contribution be sent to another party like SNP, SSP or greens?
In other words can the member decide where his/ her political contribution goes?
I wouldn’t have thought so, it would be awfully complicated to manage. If your trade union is affiliated to a party then you could refuse to pay the political levy and it would just be removed from your membership fee. A lot of trade unions aren’t affiliated, though; check with yours to see what their position is.
@handclapping
We have a real problem with Jim Murphy’s seat in Renfrewshire East. It’s a straight Tory/Lab contest, with the rest nowhere:
link to ukpollingreport.co.uk
Do we ask Yessers to hold their noses and vote Tory in the hope of unseating unlucky Jim? Personally, I think I’d rather have 2 Tories in Scotland than Mr Murphy.
@ handclapping:
Just a thought – There may be some newer MPs on your list (i.e. elected in 2010) who have benefitted from their predecessor’s following. I can think of one who “inherited” a large majority in a Labour stronghold when the sitting MP retired.
However, the area in question is one of the four which voted Yes in the referendum, and the MP’s subsequent vote in favour of the Iraqi air strikes has only added to the disgust and outrage of people there.
Incidentally, I understand the MSP for the area is also less popular than cholera.
Re community councils; I was on our local community council about 10 years ago; I gave up in disgust when I got criticised for sitting in the secretary’s seat!! You have to be prepared to ride out an awful lot of pettiness and bullshit, and I had better things to do with my time.
handclapping honey – that is not what I mean, community councils are the voice of local communities to their representatives at council and parliamentary levels. This means engaging with folk and making sure their voice is heard. I am all for people getting engaged at every level of politics, but it is not a forum for partisanship.
Yes still proudly displayed in West Kilbride as well
Yes still proudly displayed in West Kilbride as well
Graeme Doig says:28 September, 2014 at 6:56 pm:
“What is this sponsorship of jl by the coop. Are our msp,s sponsored ?”
Where you been, Graeme?
The Trade unions have always sponsered members of parliaments and Councillors. The very first Labour MP was Keir Hardie and he was sponsored by the trade unions & the Liberal Party. The Co-operative movement, Trade Union Movement and the Labour Party were all once more or less all the same movement. Then Labour began to get too big for its boots and began to distance itself from the Co-op and has more recently began distancing itself from the Trade Unions. That is probably because it has gone more & more right wing.
@Ian,
Can I second Boorach’s request? Last week in West Lothian, Yes had sign-up forms for the SNP, but could do nothing other than hand out contact details for the other pro-Yes parties. Been in touch with Greens since then, but could do with local SSP contact, if you have one. If not, forms would be good. email me kininvie (at) gmail (dot) com & I’ll give you address.
liz says:
28 September, 2014 at 9:51 pm
@nigel – about 25% could easily be persuaded to vote Yes – they want more powers but scared to take final leap
Just emphasises my point Liz-The remaining Scots, for the most part, are so cowed and timid that they will never take “the final leap.”
Can you really imagine any other country, faced with such a choice, actually rejecting what was on offer? Of course you can’t! Ive been to many countries and, without exception, are all proud of their flag. It sickened me to witness the reaction from Scots when the FM raised the St Andrews Cross at Wimbledon! I fell out with a neighbour who started mouthing off at that point!
The Scots with most “get up and go” (My son included) got up and left this shithole of a union and is now ten times better off in all ways than if he had remained here.
Thats what I was referring to when I mentioned the IQ of the remainder……..
@Boorach (9.58) –
No probs.
Please message me:
ian@stevenston4.fsnet.co.uk
I’ll make sure you get a stack. If you’re anywhere within decent driving distance of Ayrshire, I’ll deliver them. Otherwise, you’ll get them by snail-mail.
Thanks mister.
Hoots!
Ian honey – what is the difference between the Green Party and the SSP? Serious query – I’ve left the high heels at the door.
@kininvie –
Noted.
No idea who we have up your neck of the woods, but will find out.
@shuggy
Even allowing for a LibDem collapse and a 15 point swing you are still looking at 48% to 37% in West Dunbartonshire. I think you have to write it off as a mountain to climb in 2020.
@kininvie
Interesting comment made at RIC Southside meeting today:
Who’s to say that Murphy won’t be de-selected as Labour candidate?
handclapping honey – we do mountains, it’s in our blood.
The Argyll and Bute result looked bad but we won the historic county of Argyll and Bute only to be undone by the huge NO vote from Helensburgh and Lomond (which is actually much more heavily populated that the traditional Argyll and Bute). No idea why it is in A&B anyway. It is little more than a suburb of Glasgow with a huge British military base in it.
My sympathies go to the hardworking Helensburgh SNP
More Problems, (other than the £4 Billion annual cost of the war in the Middle East) for George to Deal With in the next few Weeks. All of which will be Passed on to the Taxpayer Whether they Agree with it or Not.
George Osborne, (Chancellor of the Exchequer) in his Autumn statement, for delivery to the country in November will announce an increase and extension of existing austerity measures. This will include a number of new cuts in welfare spending and public sector pay restraints, to last for the duration of the parliament and beyond.
link to caltonjock.com
Thanks Ian, I’m for bed now… 5:30 rise, will contact tomorrow.
I really do not get this idea of only fighting battles we think we can win – wise up, we are the Scots.
@Paula Rose
Environment comes first.
@nigel – you’re probably correct – u can’t get through to morons.
Lots still ‘celebrating’ booing AS – they really are thick.
Robert Peffers
Or in some cases like my union the RMT, we are distancing ourselves from Labour!!
@nigel – No matter what we think of them, i don’t think calling 2 million Scots thick is going to help our cause.
We need to engage the 55% more so that independence is utterly inevitable.
Here’s the Bruces comment on Indy ref and the oil.. enjoy !
link to youtu.be
George Osborne, (Chancellor of the Exchequer) in his Autumn statement, for delivery to the country in November will announce an increase and extension of existing austerity measures. This will include a number of new cuts in welfare spending and public sector pay restraints, to last for the duration of the parliament and beyond.
link to caltonjock.com
WGD is back and an interesting comment therein
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
@ cynicalHighlander – is that ever not in the interest of people or am I not understanding your point.
A Song for Rev Stu. link to youtube.com Have a good Break and Haste Ye Back.
# kininvie
My brother’s family lives in Eastwood and reckon Mr Murphy will lose his seat..
None of the pro-Union parties will get their votes
@ben madigan says:28 September, 2014 at 9:57 pm
“Noticed some people said trade union members could withdraw their contribution to the labour party, while continuing to pay their Union dues.”
I’ve not been an active TU member for many long years but it used to be rag-bag of different rules in different unions. Everything from no choice of paying the levy and where it went to full choice of everything. It sticks in my mind that Westminster brought out legislation to make it illegal to force members to contribute or to force them to contribute to a particular party. In my Shop stewarding days it was common for Labour Party Stewards to make it hard for anyone to opt out.
h_johnny says:
28 September, 2014 at 10:36 pm
@nigel – No matter what we think of them, i don’t think calling 2 million Scots thick is going to help our cause.
We need to engage the 55% more so that independence is utterly inevitable.
Agreed, Johnny-but, if the cap fits, wear it!
We only need another 5% to swing it. I suspect this achievable but, alas, I suspect the remainder cannot, or will not, “un-thick” their closed mindsets…………
@kininvie says:28 September, 2014 at 10:04 pm;
“We have a real problem with Jim Murphy’s seat in Renfrewshire East. It’s a straight Tory/Lab contest, with the rest nowhere:”
I rather got the impression that the Smurph was about to set himself up as the one to oust Johann Lamont from being Scottish Leader at Holyrood. If so he will be looking for a safe Labour seat for Holyrood. It is not against the rules to hold down both a seat at Westminster and at Holyrood. I think Murph sees himself as Scotland’s FM.
@Paula Rose
Yes but only the Greens have it as their No 1 priority all the others are very slowly catching up that an unhealthy environment costs far more in the long run, diversity is the key for all life. Just had a Sexton beetle fly in the window attracted by the light, they like dead bodies to lay their eggs on and I am here alone so I put it back outside.
Anothe bunch of lying phonies rewrite teamGB history. Dont forget to pick up your AlicSamin stress toy too
So from this
link to wingsoverscotland.com
to this
link to archive.today
They know they’re just another bunch of rancid hypocrites and liars but they still want us to like them. Talk about your Catch 22. Never buying their crap again.
@Dave McEwen Hill
Dave – wondering if one of your lot left me a large corex Yes sign at my wee hoose on the banks of Loch Fyne? Just discovered it yesterday. If it was you, thanks. I’ll keep it for next time!
@ handclapping:
“Even allowing for a LibDem collapse and a 15 point swing you are still looking at 48% to 37% in West Dunbartonshire. I think you have to write it off as a mountain to climb in 2020”
Oh, I don’t know, the people there are SEETHING!
@ cynfulH – a sexton beetle! Honey where do you live? I’m coming for some nature study xx
Re – opting out of the political levy:
With the exception of the RMT for a while (and now again, perhaps), I believe all unions which pass part of their political funds on to a political party do so to the Labour Party. This is, however, a decision made by the membership and thus not permanent.
I opted out of the political levy for Unite decades ago (as soon as it became possible) because it goes to Labour but a couple of years ago I did vote in favour of the retention of the political fund because this covers all political activity by the union, including non-party campaigns. This was explained in the leaflet that accompanied the ballot, but it was not clear to me whether my opting out meant that I am not contributing to this fund either.
Back to the Co-operative Party; members are allowed to also be members of Labour (but not of any other party) but it isn’t automatic. In practice I suspect dual membership is more or less universal, but they do stress that they are an independent party which chooses not to put up separate candidates because their aims are supported by Labour. (Hmm…)
@Kevin Meina says:28 September, 2014 at 10:07 pm:
“Yes still proudly displayed in West Kilbride as well”
Still got window stickers on the Camper-van here in Kelty but it was not practical to keep the large bonnet, door and side panel magnetic stickers on the vehicle nor was it practical to keep the big flagstaff on the rear tailgate or the small front window mounted flagstaffs. The house window stickers are still up and I’m working upon a chimney, or wall, mounted flagstaff, for the cottage. I have the flagstaff built and rigged but not yet decided on how to make a mounting for the pole that will allow the lanyard to be used from the ground.
That one will have to wait, though, as I strained a muscle in my neck/shoulder late on referendum night, (Don’t Ask! it was a daft wee accident).
oops – I was getting an image of Ringo doing manly stuff, giggle
re opt-out of Union subs to Labour –
UKIP were banging on about this today at their conference. (It was the first motion up for debate.) Anyone can opt-out of having a % of their union sub being given to the Labour Party, but they cannot choose another party to gift it to.
Don’t take no Poirot to work out why UKIP don’t like that, but it’s useful info all the same. ‘Mony a mickle maks a muckle’, right? – make sure Labour doesn’t get so much as a sniff at your mickles.
kininvie says: 28 September, 2014 at 10:10 pm:
“… could do nothing other than hand out contact details for the other pro-Yes parties”.
Do not both those parties have web based applications on their sites for membership, kininvie?
Ian dear – this is a family oriented site, we don’t mind a tickling of muckles but sniffing mickles is a bit below the belt.
I still have my Yes stickers on my car and a Yes poster in my window at home. I haven’t changed my mind about Scotland being an independent country,so I see no reason to take them down. Drove from Glasgow to Argyll over the last two days and passed quite a few cars still displaying Yes stickers. I also have a “Bairns not Bombs” one on my car window and I think it is entirely appropriate to display it under the circumstances. I’d say, hold onto your stickers. Mind you, I’d like a new one that just says, “How no?”
@Paula Rose says:28 September, 2014 at 10:29 pm:
“handclapping honey – we do mountains, it’s in our blood.
Indeed it is, Paula Rose. and I’ve been an SNP supporter for a very long time. One thing I have learned is that winning surprise seats, particularly in by-elections and times of strife, is like buying a luckybag – you have no idea what the hell is going to come out of it but they all cost the same price..
@Paula Rose
No high heels!
@Paula Rose
No high heels!
Ian,
I can assure you that they will not get within sniffing distance of my mickles, even downwind.
Paula Rose,
Now, now, no need to be prudish. We all know you are a shy and sensitive wee flower but it is after the watershed.
@ lots of you – aw shucks, nitey nite xx
Anyone know if the demo at the BBC went ahead today?
@Robert Peffers (10.57) –
‘I think Murph sees himself as Scotland’s FM.’
I’m fairly pished right now. Five minutes ago I went into the back garden to have a fly smoke, and was chuffed to see The Toad sitting at the verge of the lawn.
He’s been about for a few years. He may even be the same creature I picked up in the Stevenston Morrison’s car-park approx three years ago, when he was no bigger than a five-pence piece. He looks healthy, big-limbed, bright-eyed, and was clearly deliberating on which of four nearby slugs to target by way of pre-hibernation loading.
Anyway, my point is this – The Toad has more chance of winning a Westminster seat than Jim Murphy. That man is finished.
Enjoy your holiday and thank you for your work
Thanks to Natasha, Robert and Ian for all the info about the political sub.
So if I’ve understood everything – a member can stop it no prob – but has to make his/her own arrangements to send the equivalent sum to a political party that is not british labour.
And some trades Unions do not send the sub to the labour party anyway – they save it up in a fighting fund for legal battles etc.
Everything’s much clearer now
With regards to still having yes signs up, my jeep still has one. Mind you the car I saw tonight at the golf club didn’t just have Yes sticker the sides still had a huge “2014 AYE” 🙂
I see people saying that Jim Murphy maybe fancies himself as Scotlands FM?
I swear to any gods there may be, spirits, fate or divine entity or even the universe itself – if that man somehow ended up as Scotland’s FM i would never call myself Scottish again, so embarrassed i would be for the sheer lack of intelligence in ordinary people that that could be allowed to happen.
For me you may as well wrap a saltire round the stone of destiny and give it a state funeral to declare Scotland dead.
Ive frankly shit smarter objects than Jim and there isnt a parasite in nature i consider to have less basic integrity.
Out of touch, half baked career politician to the core.
@davi
come off the fence David and stop beating about the bush!
You know, I always said I would never go to live abroad. I lived in England for 25 years and I’ve been so glad to get back.
But I swear if that creep Murphy ever becomes FM, all bets are off.
@nigel says:28 September, 2014 at 10:51 pm:
“… alas, I suspect the remainder cannot, or will not, “un-thick” their closed mindsets…………”
Oh! Come on, Nigel! Think about what you are saying and put yourself in the position of an OAP on the basic pension – making the choice each week of whether to eat or heat and a knock comes on your door. There stands a bussed in, paid for English NO activist. He/she asks you what you intend to vote and you say, “Ah’m votin Aye! of course”, and this smartly dressed individual with an the English style accent you have always associated with the such things as School Head Masters, Housing Officers at the local Toon Ha, Bosses, Bank Managers and other people you associate with authority figures says, “Are you mad? Don’t you know that if you vote YES you will force the United Kingdom Government to stop your pension? How could a Scottish Government manage to pay for all the Scottish pensioners”?
These old people are not thick they are terrified and imagine themselves starved to death in a cold house with not even anyone to bury them. Think about it – even big strong men have unreasoned terrors. As an MOD worker with Nuclear Radiation I had to have a medical examination every year. This was done with a couple of RN Surgeon Commanders and the workers all in the scuddy standing in a long queue. On one occasion I was right at the front of that queue when the surgery assistant came through the inner door with a tray of large syringes in one hand a a ready for action large syringe in the other. I heard this sound like a big collective sigh behind me and looked round as I heard a series of dull thuds. There was a line that now had gaps in it where these big hard Royal Dockyard hard-men were lying passed out at the sight of those needles.
Get the message, Nigel? Abject fear is often irrational and nothing whatsoever to do with intellect.
SNP average of the Yougov polls is different:
SNP – 38.6%
Lab – 29.3%
Con – 18.1%
Lib Dem – 5.2%
Putting this into electoral calculus highlights a potential problem seat – Dumfries and Galloway – which switches from Labour to Conservative. I’ve played with other values and the same problem can happen, unless a lot bigger SNP %age.
The reason it’s a problem is that it gives Labour their traditional reason for “Vote Labour”, something they will use, and exaggerate as a national problem. D&G would need careful targetting, and the SNP media machine well ready to handle it as well. They might get some media sympathy if they suggest local voters vote – Labour (ugh) to keep out Tories. Or of course really go to town targetting Labour voters there. Local issue – A75.
My Yes flag will fly from my roof until Independence day. Also my works van with the Yes stickers will continue to travel through the borders, that’s where I work He-He.
Another thought about electoral calculus. It’s presumably set up on what was the existing swings from or to Labour and SNP etc. What it doesn’t take account of, for istnace, is the number of LibDem 2010 voters who voted YES, which was quite high – 39% according to Ashcroft.
Electoral calculus might have them swinging to Labour, whereas a substantial amount could be persuaded to go SNP and Indy.
The Yes vote in East Renfrewshire was 24287. Jim won the seat in 2010 with 25987 votes (beating the Tory guy by 10500 votes.
The Eastwood constituency in the Scottish Parliament (which I believe has the same boundaries as East Renfrewshire returned a labour MSP in 2011 with 12662 votes (a majority of 2000 over the conservative candidate. In 2007 labour won also, with 15077 votes but a smaller majority.
It is unthinkable to get behind a conservative challenger, although that would be the easist way to unseat Jim. If the yes voters can get 100% behind a single candidate then that candidate will win. Whoever it may be I wish them the very best of luck.
It would be interesting to hear from any Wingers in the constituency as to what the best move would be.
Re: Community Councils.
From Day 1, CC’s have had to remain ‘non-political’. If my memory serves me well (wheel’s on fire), the CC’s in Scotland all have a constitution that bars politicisation.
As Paula Rose (I think) typed, their job is to represent their communities in dealings with the local authority.
In Dundee City Centre, our meetings always had at least one of our councillors and the Community Liaison Sergeant from Tayside Police in attendance, as invited guests.
@David says: 29 September, 2014 at 12:10 am:
“Ive frankly shit smarter objects than Jim and there isnt a parasite in nature i consider to have less basic integrity.”
While I appreciate your utter disgust, David, the point is that neither you I or the rest of Scotland’s voters outside of the Labour Party would have a say in the matter. The First minister is chosen by the elected members of the party that gains the majority, or heads a coalition, at Holyrood. Murphy is said to be campaigning to oust Lamont as Scottish Labour Leader but need not be an MSP. There is nothing to stop anyone being both an MP & an MSP at the same time.
However, to also take over as the FM he would have to be an elected MSP and selected by the Labour, (or Labour led coalition), if they held a majority at Holyrood.
As a special treat to Jim Murphy
to let him know how we feel about him,
every Yes voter in East Renfrewshire
should vote Conservative in May 2015.
Unless anyone has a better idea.
I would have voted for Mgt Thatcher
in these circumstances
and that’s saying something,
albeit somewhat predictable.
But it is of course a matter for the good people of East Ren.
Morag: never a truer word spoken. That really would be the final straw.
I would just like it to be known that West KIlbride is a YES village .For some strange reason we lumped in with Dalry which had more sashes than brains.I was nightshift in eve of vote ,went straight to vote from work at 0745 to be met with a sight which made me a 48 year old man sit in his car a cry.The houses surrounding the polling station had saltires and yes banners hanging from practically every window.I went in stared at the voting slip for almost 5 mins losers it at placed my cross.The voting clerks gave me a sympathetic smile as they could see how emotional I was.Till the next time .
I would just like it to be known that West KIlbride is a YES village .For some strange reason we lumped in with Dalry which had more sashes than brains.I was nightshift in eve of vote ,went straight to vote from work at 0745 to be met with a sight which made me a 48 year old man sit in his car a cry.The houses surrounding the polling station had saltires and yes banners hanging from practically every window.I went in stared at the voting slip for almost 5 mins losers it at placed my cross.The voting clerks gave me a sympathetic smile as they could see how emotional I was.Till the next time .
Electoral calculus shows the importance of “other” in that column. I’d say put Sheridan against a good but difficult target, with SNP and other support, and 2-3 SSP and 2-3 Green candidates similarly, with all supporting SNP in the other seats.
Then there’s the UKIP factor – 2.6% overall in the SNP poll, presumably higher in some parts than others, which could take away some Tory voters, but also Labour if it had the same pattern as in England.
It seems clear though that co-operation between the YES parties could optimise the thrashing Labour take. Shame!
Liz M
Are you still here posting
Just for interest, the timetable for the GE 2015:
link to parliament.uk
Day 6, 19 days before 7 May, about 17th April, is the last day for nomination or withdrawal of candidature.
On the subject of shopping, Lidl are great and they have some fantastic European lines. Their marmalade is wonderful. However, I moved house earlier in the year and am now out of Lidl range and am stuck between Tesco and Marks & Stains and no smaller grocery shop. Sigh.
The Cooperative – will be phoning the bank and asking about their political allegiances. I had thought the bank was outside political sympathies but now I need to check.
As for Murph, he’s delusional if he thinks he’s going to get a sniff at the FM-ship. As is Lamont, of course. Labour is disappearing down the swirling plughole of irrelevance in Scotland.
Dream on if you think anyone can unseat that wee git Russell Brown from Dumfries & Galloway. There’s a horrible tendency of (as my late mother-in-law was fond of saying) “it’s aye been” down here. Brown is a local man and like dear old Sir Hector Munro (barf) before him, once they get established they seem to never get un-established.
On top of that, IMO the SNP have managed to seriously piss people in this area off, removing various local services to the Central Belt (and as a long-time independence supporter I’d include me in that number). The argument for centralising fire service response was that it could be done from anywhere – so why not from here, where there is a massively low wage economy and a great deal of ‘hidden’ poverty?
I feel it’s a crying shame – Galloway managed years ago to unseat the Tories and send an SNP MP to Westminster so why has the area been so ignored?
It’s not just us or the Catatonias that want change across Europe. The great majority do.
This video is an inspiration and the reason we will not give in.
link to youtube.com
Catalonians of course.
@stuckdoonhame
Just Google Scottish government spending, Dumfries and Galloway. The SG much like anywhere else in Scotland receive little or no headline credit for the positives, but too many headlines for much that is negative. I agree though, Mr Brown is pretty much an immovable in the region.
I wonder though if Mr Brown could have kept Stena in the region when they considered their move a few years back? Or would Labour have let them leave in order to favour their Ayshire constituencies? Even the modest improvements to infrastructure along the A77 and A75 to facilitate access to the port, would they have occurred? I doubt it. But how much headline space has any of the above received? The spending plans you’ll see after that simple google search will also highlight some significant spend in both NHS and education facilities. Again, where are the good news stories?
But one windmill goes up anywhere and the focus/action groups come out of the woodwork and the SG goes through a shit storm of bad press. The region is basically landed rural with two large bodies of habitation at either end. If or when rUK votes to leave the EU they are in for a bad day of I told you so as they watch a great deal of subsidies disappear never to be seen again. Some folks though need to be faced with the starkest of choices before they realise just who has been working for them and who has been working for themselves.
@stuckdoonhame
You say SNP have managed to seriously piss people in this area off, removing various local services to the Central Belt
I notice you don’t list these services. I had the same claim made in my area, when I pressed them for details it turned it that most had been moved as a result of decisions taken before 2007 or were actually the in Westminster control, not Holyrood.
When you get the details get back to us.
Obviously we need proof from Stu in the form of a photo of a sand castle built each day with that day’s newspaper held in shot. 😉
The Computer Repair shop in the old Mall ha-ha-ha. That takes me back. I got my old Sinclair ZX Spectrum repaired in there!
Anyway …enjoy the holiday, Stuart
God, I had forgotten all about the computer repair shop in the old Mall. Back in 1985, I had to take my old ZX Spectrum repaired there to be repaired.
Anyway …enjoy your time off, Stuart
Another Monday, another week of Westminster rule.
If you saw the Mall now, Stuart …you wouldn’t even recognise it! Anyway …enjoy the break.
O/t, isn’t it strange how allegedly the “banned” newspapers to not seem to be carrying any stories on Peter Howson handing back his OBE!!
I live in D&G, but in Scotland’s sole Tory constituency, next door to Brown’s.
If you think BBC Scotland is bad, the local news for D&G at half past the hour on GMS is a hell of a sight worse. Almost every day, a Labour politician is on, usually Brown, Elaine Murray or a local councillor. They are given free rein to say whatever they like, with no one questioning them or responding from another party. It really is wall-to-wall Labour propaganda, constantly attacking the SG and the SNP. It’s rare for any other politician to be on.
At least, it was before the Ref. I no longer listen to the BBC, and I have no intention of ever doing so again.
I was in Dumfries about three weeks ago, and I walked past Brown’s constituency HQ on Friars’ Vennel, just along the street from where Bruce slew the Red Comyn in Greyfriars’ Church. Alongside the No posters in the window, there was a huge Butcher’s Apron – put me in mind of an Orange Lodge.
Grouse Beater
Aye but Cameron has reiterated his commitment to the vow along with English votes blah blah…
WAPOS considering we could have had it all.
Came across this article (not sure if it has already been posted) if so, my apologies. It is rather long and contains comments on the whole procedure of the referendum before and after. Many or most of the accusations have already been debunked. I have no idea about the validity of some of the comments but thought it might be an interesting read for some. I was hoping that something MAY have been overlooked. link to sott.net
Just jumped in the car and heard GMS headlines. The case for Mr Ineos put as part of the headlines, no counterbalance. Just you’ll all be filthy rich with no disruption etc .
The topic aside , BBC Scotland really are the voice of Westminster.
Rancid Herald says Cameron got Brown to vet his last speech for teamGB. “One Downing Street insider quipped it was the “best conversation” Mr Cameron had ever had with his Labour predecessor.” So try and inventing a bigger fraud on the second Monday of the New Union.
Labour writes Consevatvie speeches now.
It was Gordon Brown wot won it though. That last desperate rage at Scotland by Crash day before polls, then blanket BBC coverage brought majority back in to line.
Cuts are a coming big time and they must go directly to the No voters. It’s that simple, not!
The Brown’s were on a flight to New York Friday 19th, first class, all the trimmings, perfect end to a perfect fraud.
Anyone else a wee bit suspicious about those Ashcroft demographics figures?
These amazingly colourful and detailed figures appeared immediately after the referendum, but from where? From what data?
If, as has been reported in many areas blank ballots were issued, how would it be possible to track these blank ballots back to a voter never mind their age groups?
My sister had a blank backed ballot paper issued to her at her polling station and has been trying to track it back through her council without success. They can verify she voted from the polling list but cannot verify which way she voted. This was a week after the vote so how did Ashcroft know who voted Y/N immediately after the vote? It’s simply not possible IMO.
@ Square Haggis
Ballots are secret: you are not supposed to be able to find out how someone voted. It is kind of the point
Ashcroft conducted a poll by telephone of 2000 respondents. You may or may not accept his findings, but it is not related to the ballot papers in any way
The main profiles of the 55%:
1) Britaniaphiles (lost cause)
2) Ignorant (just don’t get it yet)
3) Terrified (Project Fear)
4) Tribal (Diehard Labour, hate SNP)
Forget category 1, but we can certainly work on the others.
It’s not easy though (is it ever?)
BtheP, I do not have a Lidl here in Dunfermline, two Aldi stores, two (spit) Asda’s and about to increase the number of Tesco’s to two. I used to work at the bottom of Leith Walk and there was a Lidl in the Kirkgate. my workmates used to refer to them as Herr Flick, but it was well used. So if Lidl want to move in to Dunfermline it might take the pressure of my Aldi, where you really need to take a number to get round these days.
It seems that the BBC and other media outlets have decided not to show the handing over ceremony of the Ryder Cup by the First Minister. It doesn’t happen at Wimbledon. It doesn’t happen at major football games. This is just further evidence of BBC prejudice.
Luigi, as I see it the 45% only need time, we need to keep the youngsters educated politically, having started we better not stop. The elderly were among the worst Britainophiles, many who grew up through the War and still believe the trash they were told, and who have only the MSM to follow. We have to keep the pressure up on the remainder. Those people still voting Labour are the hard core, doubt there is any saving them.
Tam Jardine
I notice many people posting the electon results for the GE in 2010
It is as if the Libdem meltdown in the Holyrood elections in 2011 never happened
I reveiwed the boundaries for both NEFife and for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath for both the GE and the HE and they are remarcably similar (rosyth is in Cowdenbeath HE constituency not in Gorden Browns GE)
which when combining the Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath 2011 results gives a totally different picture form Gordon Browns victory in 2011
I appreciate this is easier in some areas than others, I struggle in some areas as I dont know the areas that well, But if anyone wants help to do this, i am willing to help,
Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath Combined HE and GE results
2005 GE
Labour 24,278 G.Brown Chancellor
SNP 6,062
Tories 4308
Libdem 5450
58% turnout
2007 HE notional
Lab 24240
SNP 17040
Torys 6190
Libdem 7450
Turnout 45%
2010GE
Labour 29,559 G.Brown PM
SNP 6,550
Tories 4258
Libdem 4269
62% turnout
2011 HE
Lab, 24300
SNP 23400
Tory 3685
Libdem 1422
46% turnout
Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation 1707 and 2014
Future Lord Gordon Brown, Sir Ian Wood, every single UKOK Scottish hack, Sir Crichton Torquil, Sir Jim Naughtie, Sir Gordon Brewer, bloater Fats Madougal, maybe he’ll get an OBE as he wasn’t that great, the endless readers letters writers to the Press and Journal that kept raging, who the hell do the Scots think they are and wind farms mean the end of the world, future Lady’s Lamont, Bird, Magnuson, Bird for her creepy sneer at all things Scottish democracy, Magason because you probably still would, Stair heid Lamont because what would aye thone neighbours think about that then, the grotesque that is Better Togther Slovenia branch that has nothing to do with a Glasgow law academc called Prof Tomkins, the only political analyst in the world Prof Curtice and of course, last but not least and actually not last as the list of rogues seems endless, the British fascist thugs that attacked people in and around George Square after showing us their nazi salute. Rule Britannia.
Although I’m boycotting all MSM, I do still listen to Radio Scotland (and also read archived newspaper stories others post here for example). Radio Scotland makes me so so angry, and I think that’s positive, because it reminds me to keep my energy going in fight against the BritNat forces.
This morning’s example: Ruth Davidson and Gary Robertson. Question for Rutty – Do you think people in Scotland don’t really get the UKIP thing in England?
Response – I think if you flip it on its head you’ll understand Gary. They have UKIP and we in Scotland have our own nationalists, the SNP.
Gary thinks, ‘good one Rutty, now lets move on to the next question’ ‘What about your line in the sand?’
Rutty – well I’ve always been open to making the arrangement stronger. We are happy to consider all income tax being devolved.
Gary – thinks, shall I ask about other taxes e.g. crown estate and oil? Nah, don’t think I’ll bother
Rutty – and by the way, I’m a proud Scot and Brit and I can wear both hats blah blah blah
I notice that over on that thing they call twitter, there is a bit of a barny about people refusing interviews or participation with the BBC. I wholeheartedly agree that nobody on the YES side should even entertain working with the propagandist BBC.
No matter how nicely they talk to you, to get your participation, your views will be distorted and skewed as always.
The BBC are an establishment state propagandist for Westminster, no more, no less. The head of the BBC trust is appointed by the Queen and Prime minister, for heavens sake. We should not give them the time of day.
They have zero interest in your viewpoint, they only want to talk to you, so as to lend a veneer of credibility to their biased output. If you help the BBC, you make it easier for them to portray themselves as ‘balanced’, when in reality they are nothing of the kind.
Let’s not work with ANY of those organisations who went out of their way to lie to and deceive the people of Scotland during the referendum campaign.
Molly
I also listened to the propaganda this morning served up by BBC Scotland. They may have a much harder job convincing Scots that fracking 300m below their houses is not just completely safe, necessary and beneficial than the BBC had when they were campaigning against Independence but it won’t stop them from trying.
Was thinking that if it’s ok for Ineos to frack under my house they wouldn’t mind if I turn up at their offices, or Dart Energy in Stirling with a spade and a few hundred like minded folk to dig a big tunnel under their front lawn.
We could give them 6% of anything we find!
The SNP have to go hard in on this issue – Scotland has nothing to gain from fracking and the risks are many. But for the SNP it makes political sense when almost everyone, yes and no is against fracking under their house.
It is a way to reach many of the 55%, particularly the middle classes.
link to holyrood.com
Wise guys.
“Secretary of State for Scotland, Alistair Carmichael, has defended the decision to appoint Lord Smith of Kelvin – an unelected peer – to oversee the process of further devolution, arguing his appointment demonstrates that “the Government is serious about achieving a big deal in a short time.”
And Mike Moore because he’s so trustworthy and democratic
“I am struck by the fact that the English question is to get a full Cabinet sub-committee with William Hague and all the resources of the state put at its disposal, whereas Lord Smith of Kelvin – whose abilities I rate extraordinarily highly – gets two civil servants and a few weeks to do his job.”
Tam Jardine,
Totally agree with you regarding fracking. The SNP should bang on about it night and day, as those nice people of Morningside and similar areas are in for a shock when they find out Fracking can happen just about anywhere, and not just way far out in the country. Then they find out that the Scottish Government, or council have zero say in the matter.
IMHO, it really could sway many in the middle classes who voted NO to realise just what a big mistake they made.
Scotland is rich in oil and gas, with 60% of the EU’s proven reserves, and enormous renewable potential, there is NO need for fracking whatsoever in Scotland.
Dave McEwan Hill
Remember that Helensburgh is an active military base and also home to the indigent version of the retired Majors of Tunbridge Wells. But although people have yachts in their driveways rather than cars, unhappiness is the curse of Helensburgh. It’s home to some of the most miserable buggers in Scotland outside of Fife.
As for why Helensburgh is in Argyll. It was given a choice in the council reorganisation of the 1990s – stay in West Dumbarton or move to Argyll. They chose Argyll, complaining that they paid for everything in Dumbarton and got nothing spent in Helensburgh in return. Now they complain they pay for everything in Argyll and get nothing spent on them in return.
Helensburgh doesn’t deserve Argyll. And interesting to hear it prevented a fifth council declaring for yes, which would have made a continuous cross-section of good guys from Tiree to Shotts.
Looked at the Daily Record again this morning. It is back to its purpose as a Labour cheer-sheet, already promoting the idea that the Conservatives are on the down and Labour are set to win 2015, which with Milliband in charge is clearly not going to happen if England has a say in the matter.
Hey folks,
St.Andrews day is coming up on 30th Nov. Why don’t we make it the biggest festival for YES ever? It is after all OUR day.
This year it falls on a Sunday, which means the Monday after (1st December) is a bank holiday.
What do people think? Plenty of time to get organised.
Those people still voting Labour are the hard core, doubt there is any saving them.
They can and have been chipped away over the years, but it won’t happen quickly (stubborn old buggers). Let’s see how they feel after the Tory landslide in 2015. UKIP voters will be bought off with promises to go tough on Europe etc. Milliband will be slaughtered by the MSM on his stanbce against “English votes for English laws”.
Another five years of Tory austerity hell.
It’s coming.
Corruption at every level without a doubt.
I hope the No voters are happy once the drilling starts and their house values plummet.
link to theguardian.com
@Robert Louis
YES definitely and as its my birthday on the 3oth Nov this will just make it all the more special.
TO Natasha – Scots FibDem MP majorities :-
Michael Moore = 5,675 Maj. (SNP =4TH)
Sir Robert Smith = 3,694 maj
Alan Reid = 3,411
John Thurso = 4,826
Jo Swinson = 2,184
Michael Crockart = 3,803
Sir Ming Campbell= 9,046
Malcolm Bruce = 6,748
Danny Alexander = 8,765
Alis Carmichael = 9,928
Charles Kennedy = 13,070
Tory MP David Mundell has a Maj at4,194 from 2010.
I know UKOK media’s mocking us but if you have any need to for WTF right now, future Sir Crichton Torquil of the Daily Record says
“Torcuil Crichton: It’s time Labour took Scots voters seriously”
TORCUIL reckons giving the job of first Secretary of State for Scotland to an MSP – combined with Labour MPs seeking Holyrood seats, would signal a party that takes Scotland seriously.
So there you go. Torquil Crichton is the man who knows stuff
“LITTLE details on a large canvas can sometimes be the most revealing. A small scene on the referendum’s vast campaign trail stuck with me as a lesson for Scottish Labour .
It was Gordon Brown storming out of the doors of the Royal Concert Hall in Glasgow, witnessed by a few loitering journalists.
Having finished one barnstorming speech, he found he was late for another in Edinburgh.
As he ripped off his microphone, he fumed at no one in particular: “Why did no one come for me earlier?”
His frustrated growl would be the perfect title for Labour’s campaign memoir.
The party won by recalling to service its most able leader. The only direct blow against Alex Salmond was struck by Alistair Darling, the street campaign was a solo Jim Murphy effort and the flashbulb moments belonged to Anas Sarwar. All of them are Westminster MPs.”
Crash says why did noone come for me earlier but can that nutcase really be this mad, is another teamGB mystery.
Crash did win the UKOK day though.
@Wanton wampum
You are using the 2010 figures I assume. With the current voting intention figures which Scot Goes Pop produced on Sept 25th:
SNP 40.3%
Labour 29.5%
Conservatives 17.3%
Liberal Democrats 5.5%
Greens 4.0%
UKIP 2.8%
The seats change handsas in this table:
link to tinyurl.com
O/T
If anyone is interested I am setting up a dedicated forum to promote Scottish independence. No ads, no tracking just a discussion hub. Early days yet but it is picking up.
http://www.lionrampant.scot
At the tory party conf, soon to be ennobled David Mundell was “Bigging-up” Ruth Davidson MSP as the winner of the IndyRef.?
Before AND after the signing of the “Edinburgh Agreement” she was fond of drawing her “Line in the sand” totally opposing any devolved powers from WM to Holyrood.?
She drew a line in the sand at LEITH.
Now that her line in the sand has travelled across Scotland and is currently on the foothills of Ben Nevis, her sand scrit is a moveable feast.
Also UNDERSCORES her subjugation to BamCam in much the same way as Lamontable is Slab scab Leader UNTIL she is slapped-down by Mibbeland and Balls.
Shrodingers cat
Interesting – I am no expert in these matters but predict the lib dem collapse turning into a complete rout. In 2010 about 465,000 folk voted lib dem. Plenty less than SNP but they get 11 seats and we won 6 (the tories faring even worse under FPTP.
And wow – Scottish Election 1year after the Lib dem constituency vote drops to 157,800 and the list to a paltry 103,000 odd.
So there are plenty of voters who switched to the SNP at the Holyrood election and may well repeat this mass migration in May. My guess is that former Lib demmers always vote so this vote will go somewhere.
Combine this with a significant dissaffection with labour and it could be very interesting, particularly if the pro indy vote is not split and the unionist vote is.
Some huge labour majorities to overturn but the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
I did think the tories would pick up a few rural seats in May – a charge of electoral fraud may not sit too well with the faithful for Ruthie. Oops!
Robert Peffers says:
29 September, 2014 at 12:15 am
@nigel says:28 September, 2014 at 10:51 pm:
“… alas, I suspect the remainder cannot, or will not, “un-thick” their closed mindsets…………”
Oh! Come on, Nigel! Think about what you are saying and put yourself in the position of an OAP on the basic pension – making the choice each week of whether to eat or heat and a knock comes on your door. There stands a bussed in, paid for English NO activist. He/she asks you what you intend to vote and you say, “Ah’m votin Aye! of course”, and this smartly dressed individual with an the English style accent you have always associated with the such things as School Head Masters, Housing Officers at the local Toon Ha, Bosses, Bank Managers and other people you associate with authority figures says, “Are you mad? Don’t you know that if you vote YES you will force the United Kingdom Government to stop your pension? How could a Scottish Government manage to pay for all the Scottish pensioners”?
These old people are not thick they are terrified and imagine themselves starved to death in a cold house with not even anyone to bury them. Think about it – even big strong men have unreasoned terrors. As an MOD worker with Nuclear Radiation I had to have a medical examination every year. This was done with a couple of RN Surgeon Commanders and the workers all in the scuddy standing in a long queue. On one occasion I was right at the front of that queue when the surgery assistant came through the inner door with a tray of large syringes in one hand a a ready for action large syringe in the other. I heard this sound like a big collective sigh behind me and looked round as I heard a series of dull thuds. There was a line that now had gaps in it where these big hard Royal Dockyard hard-men were lying passed out at the sight of those needles.
Get the message, Nigel? Abject fear is often irrational and nothing whatsoever to do with intellect.
So, Robert, your implication being that the puir owld souls who have been intimidated on their doorsteps would have voted yes if they had not been intimidated?
I think not.
I wouldnt blame them though, as they have spent their long lives in a country which,according to the media which are 100% unionist in outlook, on a daily basis, has portrayed their country as being too poor, too wee(as witness the blatant downsizing on the weather map) , and totally incapable of making its own decisions. What, Scotland have its own parliament?? Your having a laugh-Hahaha!
The constant battering of the Scots has resulted in their mindset being as I have previously described, i.e., timidity, fear(and this in a nation with an allegedly warlike history-haha!)
Our imperial masters have subtly, or not so subtly, allowed the Scots a wee bit of self congratulation by allowing such programmes as the White heather Club, and numerous programmes mainly centred around singing and dancing themes. Any aspirations to go beyond that and make programmes containing any political theme, or themes which show the Scots as having an intellect, are instantly stamped upon.(Cant let the natives have delusions of grandeur, what??)
I dont blame the English one iota for what we have become,they are simply taking advantage of a compliant race, however I AM shaken and appalled at the number of Scots who have been taken in, hook line and sinker , by the unionists propoganda,and the number who on a daily basis belittle their own country.
I am reminded of the Chinese nationalist, Mao tse Tung, who, in order to change the mindsets of the older Chinese (not dis-similar to the older Scots mindset in many ways), having to order the cultural revolution,run by the younger elements, in order to expunge the older (imperialist) way of thinking.
I see many many parallels here……….
@nigel
I think some of the older generation are indoctrinated, not stupid. They watch BBC and read the tabloids. Let’s develop other means of getting information across. It was said often enough that once people had a chance to discuss the facts they changed to YES.
@Graham:
Nice name. 🙂
Tam Jardine
It has to be viewed on a constituency basis
eg, NEF holyrood, NEF GE are almost identical, this is ming campbells stomping ground, but rod campbell won this in 2011, even if you multiply up all of the unionist voters (50% turnout in HE, 64% turnout in GE) rod campbell still won hands down
Tories breaking for UKIP, labour breaking for SNP and the Libdems breaking for everyone, Central fife to be fracked, the Libdem candidate with a shady past, the renege on Set in Stone vows, Independence not in the SNP manifesto, just FFA, a motivated yes vote, a campaign group of activists that both Ming and Rod Campbell would have died for in 2010 and 2011………..this seat is very winniable
as I say, you need to look at more than just the 2010 GE results for your area, pointing out that the winners won by a huge margin without looking at the 2011 results will only demoralise people and convince the voters not to turnout. look at the 2010 snp in gordon browns constituency compaired to the 2011
Michelle Mone’s firm ceases trading with major liabilities.
Not able to reply to the guff printed here. Some Brit nats are really hateful specimens.
link to edinburghnews.scotsman.com
Capella
Thanks for the table – has fair cheered me up this morning. Just wondering who the most satisfying scalp on the list would be?
Danny Alexander?
Jimmy Hood?
Ian Murray maybe?
Got it: Brian Donohoe! I think a compilation Yew Choob piece with appropriate soundtrack of all the parasitic Westminster mps being defeated could be fun
Could some of the better known, popular SNP MSPs be persuaded to stand for election as MPs in their local constituencies in 2015? Eg. John Masson- Margaret Curran Round 3!
If they win, they destroy the unionist incumbent, if not, then nothing lost. If so desired, they could resign from Westminster in 2016, in order to stand for re-election to Holyrood in 2016.
TO Capella –
Zero DK`s in your figures.???
I was indeed using ONLY checkable and relevent 2010 WM General Election “RESULTS” for the majorities.
For a guide – In the run-up to the May 2014 GE FOR WM.
In many of the SLAB scab MP Constituencies SNP came 3rd or 4th in the ballot.
Worse, in many of the FibDem MP constituencies – SNP came 3rd or 4th.
“Intentions ” are irrelevent – until confirmed by the result of the ballot. Wishes and horses.?
Only a few days ago “The Silent Majority” – Spoke.
Throughout the Indy Ref Campaign the “Silent Majority” were silent – because they had zero to offer and refused to defend their absurd stance for over 2 years.
WHEN 23 per cent of voters “DIDN`T KNOW” how they “INTENDED” to vote, should we deal in dreams or in reality.
WE who fought for Indy – MUST DEAL IN REALITY.
@Ken500 says:10:48 am
“Michelle Mone’s firm ceases trading with major liabilities.”
Shame. Casualty of the Union.
RE Liberals and ignorant old people. How many people actually know what Devo Max, Home Rule and Federalism are? This is what the Unionists offered at the last minute which swung the vote. Let’s spell it out. (A Wee Yella Book?)
How many people know that the Liberals have had Home Rule in their prospectus for 150 years and failed to deliver? How many Labour voters know that Keir Hardie advocated Home Rule and that was in the Labour Party manifesto until (I think) the 30s?
What about an election leaflet saying “The Liberals have promised Home Rule for 150 years. The SNP will deliver” or similar?
TO Natasha – Scots FibDem MP majorities :-
Michael Moore = 5,675 Maj. (SNP =4TH)
Sir Robert Smith = 3,694 maj
Alan Reid = 3,411
John Thurso = 4,826
Jo Swinson = 2,184
Michael Crockart = 3,803
Sir Ming Campbell= 9,046
Malcolm Bruce = 6,748
Danny Alexander = 8,765
Alis Carmichael = 9,928
Charles Kennedy = 13,070
Ming Campbell probably won’t stand again?
Malcolm Bruce is stepping down, as is Robert Smith.
That’s 2 definitely up for grabs, perhaps 1 more. Danny Alexanders will be under threat as well, throw in Swinsons.
link to nationalcollective.com
@WantonWampum. 10:58 am
TO Capella –
Zero DK`s in your figures.???
The figures are taken from a Yougov poll conducted the Thursday after the referendum. There are two sets of tables. In the one used forElectoral Calculus, I usedthe the figures with Don’t Knows excluded, which is what James Kelly used. Feel free to recalculate with DKs maybe added to an “other” column. It will have to add up to 100%.
The point is that opinion has changed since 2010, in some cases dramatically.
@nigel says: 29 September, 2014 at 10:27 am:
“I am reminded of the Chinese nationalist, Mao tse Tung, who, in order to change the mindsets of the older Chinese (not dis-similar to the older Scots mindset in many ways), having to order the cultural revolution,run by the younger elements, in order to expunge the older (imperialist) way of thinking.
I see many many parallels here……….”
Aye! Nigel but perhaps it is you who have been brainwashed and don’t realise it. For starters I was born pre-WWII and have supported the SNP since I was a schoolboy in 1946.Thus subjected to this UK propaganda you speak about. Thing is I could see right through it even way back then.
Here’s some of the stuff the Establishment were really doing back then if you cared to dig around a bit, (not easy in a pre-internet age). Read this, Nigel.
“The British Union of Facists had 50,000 members at one point and the Daily Mail was an early supporter. A Director of Propaganda, Wilfred Risdon, was appointed in February 1933. The BUF had a big following in London’s East End. It got London Council resuls in elections in 1937 in Bethnal Green, Shoreditch and Limehouse, polling nearly 8,000 votes. They were backed by Lord Rothermere. Some Nazi sympathisers were William Joyce, John Beckett, Dr. Robert Forgan.
BUF support for Edward VIII and the peace campaign to prevent a second World War saw membership and public support rise once more. The government was sufficiently concerned by the party’s growing prominence to pass the Public Order Act 1936, which banned political uniforms and required police consent for political marches. In 1937, William Joyce and other Nazi sympathisers split from the party to form the National Socialist League. Historian Stephen Dorril in his book, “Blackshirts”, revealed envoys from the Nazis donated £50,000 to the BUF.[ By 1939, the BUF membership was around 20,000. In May 1940, the BUF was banned outright by the government and Mosley, and another 740 fascists, were interned during WWII.
As for the Royals : – In 1937 the Duke and Duchess of Windsor visited Germany and met Adolf Hitler. A well-established fact was the British royal family was cozy with the real Hitler back then.
After WWI the royal family changed its name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor to distract attention from its German heritage. Prince Philip’s family is the house of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg. Unabashed supporters of Hitler and the Nazis. His brother-in-law, Prince Christoph of Hesse, was a member of the SS. He piloted fighters that attacked allied troops in Italy. Just weeks before Germany invaded Poland King George VI and his wife, the late Queen Mother, sent Hitler a birthday greeting. “I never thought Hitler was such a bad chap,” is a quote from King George’s brother, the former King Edward VIII, who became the Duke of Windsor after abdicating in 1936. Edward made this remark in 1970.
The Nazis planned to install the Duke as leader after a successful conquest of Britain. The former head of British naval intelligence said Hitler “would soon be in this country, but that there was no reason to worry about it because he would bring the Duke of Windsor over as king.” Other royals had Nazis connections. Baron Gunther von Reibnitz, the father of Princess Michael of Kent, was a party member and an honorary member of the SS. The brother of Princess Alice was a Nazi who claimed Hitler had done a “wonderful job.” Charles Edward was placed under house arrest after the war for his Nazi sympathies. He was sentenced by a denazification court, heavily fined and almost bankrupted.
The British aristocracy supported Hitler and the Nazis. Lord Halifax was infatuated with Hitler and Sir Oswald Mosely served as the leader of the British Black Shirts. Montagu Norman, 1st Baron Norman, the Governor of the Bank of England from 1920 to 1944, was a close friend of the German Central Bank President Hjalmar Schacht. Schacht was a supporter of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party and served in the Nazi government as President of the Reichsbank and Minister of Economics. Norman played a key role in transferring Czechoslovakian gold to the Nazis in March 1939. Now check out the Mitford Sisters : –
link to archive.today
(Hope that Archive link works – it’s my first crack at using it).
@
Ken500 says:
29 September, 2014 at 10:48 am
Michelle Mone’s firm ceases trading with major liabilities.
She has already shipped all the assets into another firm of which she owns 49%. I think the 51% is owned by, shock horrors, a foreign company who have very low production costs.
I would think that she will be shafted, business wise, in the next 18 months.
Sad
The media defeated us, not any of our political opponents, and the media will now have to maintain the same level of anti independence bias to keep us beaten.
The BBC is still at it full power. On BBC Scotland Ceefax the story is that 80,000 Tory No supporters signed some sort of paper thing (they say) with a bit at the end of the report that the SNP has over 40,000 new members. Of course over 1 million signed the declaration for Independence which might have been the equivalent of the 80,000 (I doubt it) Tory thingy.
Fluffy Mundell said on telly this morning that the Tories had 11,000 members in Scotland,
When Ruth was elected leader only just over 5000 were qualified to vote and only about half of them voted.
AH Robert, the Mitfords and others, such a lovely bunch of people. I only read about the Philip connections quite recently but knew all about the dear of Duke of Windsor.
I am not obviously as old as you, and no disrespect, but I came to the SNP as my party of choice as soon as I was old enough to vote, so circa the late 60’s. Never changed my mind and now far too old to do so. I can see how people who have never been in contact with those from the South or at least not the not so nice elements. I even understand people who go abroad but never get out of the British enclaves in Spain for instance. I also understand being frightened, I was terrified myself, but strangely not of Independence of the very thing which is now happening. I do hope all those NO voters who were terrified of a better future love the future they have voted for. More austerity, the Tories made no secret of it, nor the Labour Party. Our pensions now some of the lowest in the Western World and likely to get worse. Boy what a future we have, yum yum.
She’s gone bust.
@Ian Brotherhood
Both of them?
Nana, I got targeted as a possible Labour Party Member, I kid you not. Got an e-mail from the Mr Miliband telling me of how good joining would be. Wrote back and said in some form of words that you are mistaking me for one of the fools who voted for a load of second class carpet baggers and I heartily suggest you lose my e-mail address.
@Helena Brown
Ditto. I got emails from Curran, Lamont, Brown & Ed.
I sent replies which were not as polite as yours. Some of which I posted on Wings.
We have just had 40,000 and rising persons join a party for independence.
We must never waver in our aim of independence and this must never be in public doubt.
We nearly got it and any stepping back now would be utter folly and exactly what our enemies want.
We will indeed “hold their feet to the fire” on the promises they made but cannot deliver but all the while we must indicate how inadequate and how complicated these “powers” are and how much better and how much simpler independence is.
Do you remember how the cost of borrowing in an iScotland would go up as we wouldn’t have the UK’s AAA rating?
Guess what?
The UK has lost its AAA rating, but conveniently after the referendum
Nana,I really wanted to let rip but then I thought why let the side down. Yes were always much more polite than they were. I consider them the scum of the earth, strange days but then Labour make strange friends.
Michelle Mone’s firm ceases trading with major liabilities.
she should of directed her anger at business partners rather than YES campaign
@Dave McEwen Hill
You can’t complain about Fluffy Mundell’s 11,000 Scottish Tories without mentioning his fellow workers 11,000 for the number of jobs thanks to Trident. He really isn’t in the same league as JaBa, his is only twice 11,000 : 5,000, hers is twentyfold 11,000 : 520
@ Helena and Nana
me too
It read
Dear Bugger!
have printed it and will frame.
These salt-in-the-wound emails from Labour! All the more determined to take 55 years of political/communal activity elsewhere both the serve the despised vulnerable being further squashed by Tory policies (what an ugly Tory Conference! What an equally ugly Labour one – apart from the NHS moment). I will strive for an Independent Scotland – as soon as possible.
@Helena Brown
Yes were far too polite. Each time they were given airtime they played it far too nicey nicey.
Its time to throw off the cringe and get visceral. I had a conversation with a No voter today and he is now soooo worried about his rising pension age and when he mentioned fracking, I could no longer contain my anger.
Told him enjoy your democracy under Westminster. His face was a picture realising he made a big blunder voting No. Bet there’s a fair few of them.
Handclapping
It had already lost it the day after NAW put out their leaflet stating that the Union meant a triple A rating but Scotland alone would be a Z minus.
Different ratings agency?
Which one this time?
Ian TU even.
While on a lighter note, never mind girls, he is still the World’s most illegible man;
link to ebay.com
Anum Quasir resignation letter to the Labour party. Trending in Glasgow apparently.
link to facebook.com
The intended further punitive Tory policies against the young are giving anxiety to one or two NO voters with children rising 18 -23 age bracket. Also the cynical disregard of of the ‘promises’ made by the Unionists. The Unionist leadership already becoming despised by its followers. These turkeys are already finding their Christmas at the sharp end of knife….
B(tP)
Oops
link to bbc.co.uk
but didn’t check the date [embarassed smiley thingy]
Aldi grew from 3.1% to 4% in 2013, according to Kantar Worldpanel, and is now 4.8% And Lidl grew strongly too.
Supermarket Percentage market share
Tesco 28.8
Asda 17.4
Sainsbury’s 16.2
Morrisons 10.9
Co-operative 6.4
Waitrose 5.1
Aldi 4.8
Lidl 3.5
Iceland 1.9
Farmfoods 0.7
Others 2.1
@Nana Smith – guardian article archived – remember dont give them traffic increases their advertising revenue.
link to archive.today
@Ken500 that’s a shame – shall we have a crowd fund?
Tits up?
@ Nana Smith
This is a brilliant period in the history of this great nation.
People young, old, weak, strong, rich, poor, sick and healthy, are speaking out from the heart.
Anum Quasir’s words shine brilliantly against the filth, deceit, corruption, hate and greed of Westminster and those who reside there.
These words have meaning, they have substance unlike the pathetic weak mutterings from those who oppose Scottish independence and from those who would deceive the people of this country.
Thank you Anum.
Whip round?
Lets not be too nice to the old folks. Just because they are old doesn’t mean they aren’t thick, bigotted or selfish.
There was plenty of info around. As Stu says, fuck em.
Whether they are dim selfish or brainwashed, they’re on the way out and they’re unreachable in any case.
We need to make sure that the youngsters remain involved. I was pleasantly surprised by the figures from the vote.
It would appear that in some areas of the country many folks will be lying to each other about the vote in order to save face, if they follow a particular team.
And Mechee Mone. What a shame. I can express my sympathy for her by volume in the form of this full stop .
Nana, I am not one for polite, I used the T word for people like G. Brown, A. Darling, and so they proved to be. These people would sell their grannies, kids et al for soap. Well Broonie has form for it. I see he b*uggered off to the the US as soon as the dastardly deed was done, he should stay there.
Ally at 12.20.
Simple, but amusing. If I knew how to do smiley face thing, I’d do it.
Busted?
Only if its Bridge of Weir leather
Re targeting specific seats – it has been mentioned before that the Yes official campaign was too nice.
I reckon we find out what made any area a No vote.
EG East Ren – big houses, lots of cash in No areas – post some of the horrific pictures re fracking, house prices plummeting, contaminated land etc and also show areas to be fracked in their area.
In areas where folk were worried about pensions, get sourced info to them from UK gov etc.
A quote from the BBC about pensions (Osborne’s pension pot plan), but very relevant to Brown’s barnstorming referendum winning speech and the 3 party “VOW”:
“Retired people are usually top of the hit-list among con artists.”
Tartanarse, we think the same way, even though I am also an old person, well not that old. These auld folk are on their way out and we do need to keep those who have converted onside,involved and a strong campaign going. Remember though that those 16/17 year olds will not all have rights to the vote next year.
Do not know what we can do about tribalism, seems to be one of the hard ones to break.
There’s a fair few teamGB rules cringers where I am right now and its all, “cheer up, we’ll get devo max, it must be true David Cameron sez so” Despite it all being kicked out by House of Commons asap, even before any of THE VOW gets near the Lords.
But this weekend in teamGB, another round of Iraq bombing by the RAF, another Tory boy goes even further right to Farage, another Tory boy sexts his dingdong around, vote NO Rogue Ian Wood is back in the game with revised oil forecast revenues decades more than what he lied to Scotland about and he wants to get going again on his plan to destroy what little of Aberdeen that hasnt been already been fcuked by the unionsists of teamGB
Thanks again No voters. Also this morn had to bit tongue as pensioner No voter got on bus with his free bus pass.
Tricky.
Don’t forget: Yes/No votes.
The Yes vote was by far the largest single cohesive vote, the No vote is three disparate groups/parties, each with small slices of that vote.
As a significant number of voters went to No because of the promises of substantial further powers each of their portions are reduced in impact, but each is trying to claim most of the No vote.
link to vice.com
The wisdom is that a positive campaign wins against a negative one, but if both are negative, the most negative wins. There’s no way for the first referendum that YES could have been anywhere as negative as the NO campagn, so it had to stay positive. That achieved 45%, the next one will take it over the 50%, perhaps the rules too can be a little different, and YES can fight dirty too.
Changing to negative and nasty could have dropped the 45% back down to 30%, and lost Independence for ever. That was the problem. As it is, Independence is still very much alive and kicking.
Common Weal could use a few quid if anyone has anything to spare. link to allofusfirst.org
There would be no need to ‘get nasty’ other than to debunk the lies BT told via the media. Those lies should have been nailed each time by YES and politicians on the YES side.
I watched while commentators got away with talking over the YES side and when the commentators even answered the questions posed with yet more lies.
Not once did I see anyone say “are you going to let me answer” or call them out for their lies.
Unless of course the media edited out the debunking.
We must get a fair media or we will continue to be shafted.
So from this, get the bums back to work says BBC in the Scotland region link to bbc.co.uk
to whoopdee fcuking doo this
link to bbc.co.uk
to what might have been Scotland
link to kvaerner.com
Crash Gordon eases back his first class BA NY, Heathrow seat back, takes a sip of the complementary champers
Anyone know if there’s stop the war/don’t attack Iraq demo planned for the lib dem conference on Friday in Glasgow?
Ideal time for one particularly against the the yellow tories.
I talked to, and I’ve seen others saying they talked to, many people who wanted Independence, but “we’re not ready for it” in one way or another. That was the reason for Salmond’s “once in a generation referendum” to try to get them to take courage and inspiration in hand and vote YES. Well, in the event, Brown & Co managed to counter that, but only for a short time.
Salmond then had to resign immediately, otherwise his party and the ScotGov would have been seen to implicitly accept his “once in a generation”. As it is, if the polls are right and devo-max isn’t delivered, then the 2016 manifesto can include an almost immediate referendum. Hopefully this will be backed up by a 30+ majority in Westminster of pro-indy MPs.
To achieve that majority though, it’s not just Labour must be targetted, it’s Tories especially the “Tartan Tories” of the SNP who voted NO who Ruth Davidson is even now already targetting as Tory voters. Also the LibDems, 39% of whom voted YES, and more could be persuaded after a failure to deliver the Devo-Max / Federalism promises.
YES largely targetted Labour voters, and perhaps this was correct for phase 1 – 18th Septemeber. But phase 2 needs to target all voters, including those on pensions. Nobody can be left untargetted for the next referendum.
link to kvaerner.wistia.com
to a ferry paint job in Port Glasgow.
THE MIGRATION FROM LABOUR TO SNP
A meeting of minds
The translation of Labour supporters
to the cause of Independence
and to membership of the SNP, Greens & SSP,
is to be celebrated and very warmly welcomed,
as indeed has been the case.
But may I suggest that there is one particular item from the ‘Labour household’, which is not in keeping with an Independence domain.
I refer to the practice among the
The Red Tories (formerly known as Labour)
of regularly referring to each other as ‘comrade’.
So also some of the independent Left/Far left.
Although it’s origins lie with the French revolution,
in Scotland the term is associated with Communism
so when I hear the term ‘comrade ‘
I can’t help but think of Marx, Lenin and Soviet Communism.
Perhaps this would be a good time for an upgrade lads.
Scotland couldn’t be LESS interested in Communism.
It’s INDEPENDENCE we’re after.
So please do come and join us – as you are clearly ready
for a little more self-determination –
and a little less Soviet style living ?
‘yesindyref2 says:
29 September, 2014 at 12:46 pm
The wisdom is that a positive campaign wins against a negative one, but if both are negative, the most negative wins. There’s no way for the first referendum that YES could have been anywhere as negative as the NO campagn, so it had to stay positive. That achieved 45%, the next one will take it over the 50%, perhaps the rules too can be a little different, and YES can fight dirty too.
Changing to negative and nasty could have dropped the 45% back down to 30%, and lost Independence for ever. That was the problem. As it is, Independence is still very much alive and kicking.’
Sorry, but I don’t agree.
You can start off negative and end positive. As it’s telling a story, so you identify with the negativity, i.e. why do we want independence? Then go positive.
It was also said that positivity always wins over negativity, this is only true if both have equal amounts of media time, we didn’t.
The whole bt mantra was UK OK. We didn’t show that it wasn’t OK, what better way to scare the living shit out of the comfortable no voters than by having our economists come out and destroy the uk economy? The astronomical debt, the deficit, the massive cuts that are coming, the increase to your interest rates. You then turn on the positive argument for independence, you’ve got their attention after professing the death of the uk economy and their fucking precious mortgages.
Nicola announces £12Million Ferry contract for Ferguson shipyard.
Newsnetscotland.
yesindyref2 says:
I’m sure AS had all possibilities covered. What the FM has managed to achieve is open a constitutional can of hungry worms that threatens now to consume the union from within. Independence would have been great last week, but many are not quite ready for it yet. The way things have unravelled, however, independence is now inevitable.
To achieve that majority though, it’s not just Labour must be targetted, it’s Tories especially the “Tartan Tories” of the SNP who voted NO who Ruth Davidson is even now already targetting as Tory voters. Also the LibDems, 39% of whom voted YES, and more could be persuaded after a failure to deliver the Devo-Max / Federalism promises.
Ruthie is wasting her time with the rural SNP voters. Some of them may indeed be small “c”, but they are definitely not UKIP grade, where the London Tories are rapidly heading toward.
I don’t think there was a enough emphasis on the consequences of a No vote. We are already seeing them in all their glory, the continuing need for the British state to go to war, austerity, fracking, backtracking already on more powers, the oil stories, the continuing rise of UKIP, the social Darwinism of the British state. I think Yes were too nice, we did not need to fight dirty, but we did have to be realistic about what a No means.
As it was, we only really picked the NHS issue and made progress with it, and put the No campaign under pressure. However, there needed to be more strands to it, if we vote No, in all likelihood we are leaving the EU; the more powers deal is a con, and we are going to get our pocket money from Westminster slashed.
Christ that beach holiday snap is my idea of a holiday to hell. You are joking, I hope. Tell me you’re in Provence or Venice or Berlin or anywhere but that soul-destroying beach, wearing a kiss me quick hat.
Further speculations on voting intentions. I ran the figures through Electoral Calculus using the “new proposed 2013 boundaries”. Does anyone know if there were significant boundary changes?
Result here link to tinyurl.com
Renfrewshire East and Hairmyres, Jim Murphy’s seat, has a constituncy of 77,970 of which 75.64% turned out to vote in 2010. (Much higher than avg turnout) Percentages were:
CON 28.96
LAB 37.39
LIB 0.80
SNP 27.42
OTH 5.43
If you add the “Other” parties to the SNP 27% then it doesn’t look impossible. As ever, the media blitz will be deafening so the candidate and canvassing would have to be exceptionally good.
Re the western isles vote – u could c that coming from the cold, arms folded attitude to a lot of folk at the Stornoway meeting towards Nicola.
It has been said we lost the church vote – meenisters recommending No – for what reason??
chalks
Perhaps. But what would have been reported by the stained media wouldn’t have been the positives, it would have been “SNP attacks UK”, “SNP blame Westminster” with none of the positive Indy message.
Ah good old western isles wee free hypocrites.
The type who go to church on Sunday and pray for the poor and downtrodden only to go out on Monday and walk all over the same poor and downtrodden. ME ME ME attitude of the crossed arms brigade.
Born and brought up amongst these people so I know what the mindset. Glad I left there long ago.
@chalks
I agree, we really needed to challenge them robustly on their central slogan and message, that the UK is okay. It is not. It is a vote for nuclear weapons, bombing the middle east nearly every few years, it is a vote for austerity, for increasing foodbanks, it was/is a vote to leave the EU, people are committing suicide because of the cuts to benefits in particular, we are living in a low wage state. It needed to be hard hitting imo.
By all means, the Yes campaign were right to have pointed out all the benefits of independence. However, there was not enough tough messages about the risks of staying in the British state.
The idea that a positive campaign always beats a negative one was hopelessly misguided. It became an article of faith with some. However, does anyone seriously think George Bush Sr’s campaign against Dukakis in 1988 was positive? It was one of the most negative in political history, up there with BT’s. Bush crushed his opponents’ using it. They both won as well.
@Capella – I’m in East Ren and the local Labour councillor is really well thought of as is Ken McIntosh – it’s going to be a difficult one to get.
When out at the polling station, met the conservative councillor – not a nice man at all, very aloof and stand offish.
The thought of voting cons to get Murphy sticks in the throat and also a lot of young private school types vote for Labour so appease their conscience.
Again not playing nice, fracking, Murphy’s expenses etc
@BtP:
Whip round?
Or lash squarely?
@muttley79 – I disagree as we would have to have the media behind us as soon as the Yes campaign talked about threats to the NHS, the media came down like a ton of bricks.
We need the extra push to get the 45% to increase and it does appear from anecdotal evidence that a few No voters are regretting it.
Perhaps that’s another reason why AS chose the date, so close to a general election that even the blind and brainwashed can’t deny the backtracking, the war in Iraq but also on the poor, pensioners etc.
@yesindyref2
It is correct that we need to target Tory voters, and to do that properly we need a new party to take the pro-indy message into the rural areas that voted No.
One of the unaddressed issues of the campaign was that of central belt dominance in an independent Scotland. The SNP – having started as a protest party in the rural north-east is now locked in a battle for the central belt. It is hard for it to target the entrenched Labour machine and also appeal to Tory voters.
A new pro-indy rural party need not be neo-liberal. In fact it can be radical, drawing on a long tradition of Scottish rural protest, but at the same time insisting on the advantages of independence to achieve a revival of rural Scotland.
I wrote a piece some time ago about this. I think it is still relevant:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
yesindyref2 says:29 September, 2014 at 12:46 pm
The wisdom is that a positive campaign wins against a negative one,
_________________________
Positive beats negative – usually.
But NOT EVER, when you have a very large nervous elderly population.
In addition,
with the benefit of the experience of the No campaign,
it is plain to see from their conduct from first to last
that the Neo-Liberal Unionist Establishment
at Westminster and the City of Greed
has no intention of sticking to democratic principles.
The anti-democratic strategy by No in IndyRef
must be fully recognised by the Yes Campaigns of the
future if we are to avoid further losses.
.
We now live in a UK which maintains
only a veneer of Democracy.
We’ve seen Democracy as merely a PR slogan.
With the Tory/Lib Dem/Lab /neo-Liberal City of London alliance
we are now in a totalitarian state,
in which nothing is as it seems,
and where most of the population are ‘behind the curve’,
still guided by ideas of a past which no longer exists.
Democracy, freedom, fairness and justice – as was then.
Greed, lies, intimidation, threats, theft – as is now.
For Scotland to escape this hell hole,
we have to overcome the State propaganda stranglehold
and get the true picture to the No’s –
particularly to the elderly.
So, visit your granny or your old aunt and tell her !
Hi guys.
Hope Stu is enjoying the break , well deserved but we need him back sharpish.
Looking through the comments i see folk are still angry. Me too and still really down. can,t get the lift i used to here although to be fair we’re waiting on Stu’s return to get us going.
We need to get labour out of Scotland. They are not the party of the people. The hatred they have not only for the SNP , but the huge supporters causes me a lot of worry.
labour will go against ANY policy the SNP put up regardless if it’s good for us or not. This tells a story in it’s own right. Labour are London run. There is no Scottish Labour .
If we lose the chance to put Indi MP’s onto Westminster then we will fail to get an iScotland. The GE is a chance for our voices to be heard and to learn by the mistakes of the ref. We need to get Labour out.
Positivity helps as does de-bunking their lies and spin. But we have to learn to fight dirty too. Yes Scotland where run by middle class . Toothless and i still will not forget they dis owned Wings. Anything to keep their squeeky clean image.
A Scottish Alliance putting the strongest people into the right ares would do a job but we need to remind everyone that the promises are being forgotten almost daily as the the uk returns to ” London” business as usual.
Suddenly there is plenty oil. We have fuckin foodbanks and they took us to war. Austerity for another 4/5 years minimum whist prices go up and the money we have to spend goes down.
I hate to remind NO’ers that the worst is yet to come, I will be effected and it scares the shit out of me. But i will not keep quiet about the fact they voted for my country to be subservient to WM . They who chose not to manager their own affairs because another country can do it for them .
Traitors. One and all
‘Michelle Mone’s lingerie firm MJM International reports losses’ (second year in a row)
Shame for all those Chinese workers that she employs, she’s a proud Scot but…
@YESGUY
I hate to remind NO’ers that the worst is yet to come,
Why, they voted for it?
As I said earlier, she had already transferred the assets out of the failed company and has used them to but a 49% share of the new organisation
I think her new partners are her former manufacturing factory in China?
She is dead meat once the Chinese get her distribution network.
Karma does work.
Happy days.
Luigi
Yes, Salmond resigning was a very positive thing, I forgot to say, it helped keep the media attention.
As for the Tories I tried posting in the Herald a few times that Indy would give the Scottish Tories a great opportunity, freed from toxic Westminster policies, able to set conservative policies that suited Scotland. A little success I noticed (upvotes and other postings), but hey I’m just one guy, and I got accused of being a Tory!
In the event just 5% of 2010 Conservative voters (412,855) voted YES according to Ashcroft = 20,000, they should have been targetted more. It could have been 25% perhaps (100,000), even more, and the SNP “Tartan Tories” could have been persuaded as well (apparent number 180,000).
@liz
East Ren: did East Ren have a good yes presence? I have family there but was active for yes in Glasgow. I think at GE I need to get involved in East Ren where more activists are needed. Yes groups need to share resources this way. Am I right?
In the event just 5% of 2010 Conservative voters (412,855) voted YES according to Ashcroft = 20,000, they should have been targetted more. It could have been 25% perhaps (100,000), even more, and the SNP “Tartan Tories” could have been persuaded as well (apparent number 180,000).
Agreed, I remember delivering a YES newspaper (obviously written for Labour voters) to a few posh streets in Aberdeen and thought at the time that it wasn’t very likely to win over many in that area.
mutley
UK-OK was an appalling slogan, because most people (just about all I talked to) were happy to agree that the UK is not – OK. But more should indeed have been made of this, when it first came out, long before the referendum, even if just the simple question to make people think:
Is the UK OK?
@Bugger
She is dead meat once the Chinese get her distribution network.
Triads on to her!.. 😀 😀
@liz
Agreed. I could never advocate voting CON. But it might be possible to persuade some Labour and all of the Green voters to vote SNP in order to secure greater powers?
@mandandboy. I think the French revolutionaries addressed each other as “Citizen” not comrade. we are not citizens, we are subjects of Her majesty.
see La Marseillaise lyrics – stirring stuff!
link to en.wikipedia.org
The positioning of the various parties re powers and Smith Commission already show what the outcome will be.
The two groupings, Indy and Unionist, approach it with a veneer of good will.
However, the Indy parties quite correctly say they expect what was promised, and what swing the vote, Home Rule/Devo Max. They know it won’t happen and are looking for ammunition and a moral high position.
The Unionists are back pedaling hard. Some even denying it was Home Rule/Devo Max they offered. Cameron over the weekend talked of Edinburgh raising all it spends, and therein lies the poisoned chalice of control over too few taxes. He also tells English MPs that Scottish spending will need to come down to the UK average … with Home Rule/Devo Max that should be none of London’s business! As for Labour, they really want as close to status quo as possible. So already you can tell the Unionists want DevoShite.
The Home Rule/Devo Max promise was a lie, like everything else the Unionists said. Roll on 2015 Westminster, 2016 Edinburgh and 2017 EURef. IndyRef II will be game on by then!
Ah Weston Super Mud. I went there on a day of particularly low tide…the sea was about 8 miles away or something 🙂
Enjoy the season of mellow fruitfulness Stu and unwind.
Kininvie @ 1.45pm
I agree, but SNP has already claimed some of the centre right/rural vote – instead of a new party how about an affiliated branch dedicated to rural voters.
2nd post so be kind
liz
I think Salmond was virtually faultless, and saw the bigger picture – hoping for a YES this time, near certain of a YES next time, and building towards that, while trying to optimise the chances this time without jeapordising next time.
kininvie
I personally think Davidson was aware of the possibilities of a YES vote, and didn’t campaign as hard as she could. She went through the motions, as much as anything.
I am disappointed the LibDems didn’t come out for YES, or at least turn to neutral. I think that too was their big chance, andif the LibDems do indeed get obliterated, they should blame Willie Rennie for being totally wishy-washy and ineffective. I did see signs in Micahel Moore, even as SoS for Scotland, that he was looking at the options. But then he got sacked.
Labour deserve to lose most of their deposits, if anything because they never let their members give their opinions about Indy. They also talk about solidarity with Ed going back on the promises too afraid of losing 41 Labour MPs. Solidarity in Labour is one way only, from Scotland to the rest of the UK. Will they learn, do they care?
Why, they voted for it?
Muttley,
Indeed. I have signed a petition to block fracking in Scotland but I could make an exception for frcking under specific No campaigners’ houses 😉
Muttley.
On Monday i received a letter telling me i will need to go for a work assessment interview and medical test. The letter cam four weeks after undergoing seeing 5 specialists, in 6 weeks.
My prognosis was as follows.
Arthristis. Spine and hands.
C.O.P.D – stage 2. I get puffed out after 100 yards.
Arterioscerosis. It’s a heart condition.
Chronic Pain Syndrome. Always in pain…. always.
The drugs to keep these in check tire me and cause me to forget things. Opiates take any energy i have withing ten minutes of taking them. It’s that or the pain.
Ia am 51 , a former soldier who’e injury’s are related to my service, i get a measly benefit and occasionally run out of Gas . Food or heat , at least once a month.
The letter states i have to go or else i lose all,benefits. trouble is my family have to take days off work to get me there. Will they be able to come with me for an interview ??
My Doctors are furious but have no power over the DWP.
I have witnessed at first hand the treatment dished out to our poor and disabled and i know i am not the only one. It’s degrading and makes you feel like a begger. I have lost friends through suicides directly because of the DWP rules. I have watched folk going to food banks after walking miles with wee bairns. We do this to our own. But have the money for Nukes, Aircraft carriers with no planes. Rises for MP’s while the young are told they will receive no help if they fall on hard times.
The list goes on.
The No voters were my friends and neighbours . People with members in their own families like me. When they were in need we helped , now i am a scrounger.
First i felt betrayed now ….
maybe i am wrong. maybe we all are and that’s the way things will always be here in Scotland.
The media can be blamed but the truth is Scots , our own folk voted for this system.
They are ("Tractor" - Ed)s. To the own, to their country to the whole wide world.
They knew what they voted for. And it shames me.
luigi
The YES papers and leaflets should have been targetted probably by postcode, but at least by overall area demographic. YES was determined to push Trident and left-wing policies to get the Labour vote, but totally ignored the rest of it. I even gave up reading them for the specific purpose of criticising them, they were that bad.
Bascially speaking YES Scotland was about 70% inclusive, sod the other 30%.
@crisibiscuit – We did have a good Yes presence, there was activity organised on most days and towards the end, every day.
We were posting and campaigning, it was obvious there was a huge No vote, sometimes those of us doing eg Newton Mearns were completely demoralised.
We had folk, young and old when they saw us coming, go indoors and came back out after we left.
We had folk refuse campaign material – eg I wouldn’t wipe my arse with it.
When we did get to talk to folk, it was BT propaganda that came pouring out.
Had one woman who used to work in RBS saying we couldn’t afford to bail out the banks – tried to explain banking convention.
Oil running out – told them about the Clair Ridge – wrong type of oil.
More depressingly met a young woman who worked in the NHS said all my friends are no.
Why? we shouldn’t have free prescriptions,folk using A/E to get aspirin etc
As I said the only way to target these folk is with fracking, house prices plummeting.
Got to get back to neglected work, before here’s two more neglected categories.
One is second home owners who probably did register,and voted NO. No idea what could ahve been done about them!
Second is estate owners, and perhaps dependent local businesses and workers. Implicit threats of land reform throughout the campaign, but no detail which could have reassured the many hard-working ones, the ones that contribute to the local economy, and even to government coffers. Probably a lot of NO votes that could have been YES, with a little thought – and SG / SNP policies.
YesGuy – you are very much in my thoughts – I hope that things will get better for you. One of the things that really increasingly gets me is the way people don’t think how their vote or political choice affects others or how they really don,t try to find out how it might affect themselves. A family near me who has been threatened with the Bedroom Tax voted NO, primarily, and oddly, because of the oil running out scare (Ian Wood’s cynical remarks when he knew at the time he made them that they were false). This family does have a cousin working in oil …. but I wonder how many NO votes were knee jerks to prejudice or misinformation. BTW I always appreciate your thoughtful comment and the sensitive support you give to others here. Best of best wishes.
Anyone consider the possibility that Ashcroft made up the poll to unbalance the Yes campaign after the vote.
Sow the seeds of mistrust by misdirection?
That is what I would have done.
Big concern for me is why did SNP voters in previous strongholds back ‘NO’. I know from experience that many English residents have backed SNP in elections because of blatant self interest: free prescriptions; free bus passes etc. but they never bought into Independence for Scotlandshire as they saw it. You’re talking about 400,000 votes there (11% of total, 1/5 of ‘No’ vote).
Along with them were farmers and rural poor (mainly elderly due to depopulation). who over time switched to SNP. Obviously the farmers bought the ‘No’ message big style…but why?
There must be a targeted campaign for this second group by YES. The English and their lumpen prole mates ..the OO/Loyalists will never buy into an Indy Scotland.
The old must be clearly pointed to the pension mis-selling by Unionists. I convinced a few on the door steps.
The biggest bugbear with ‘NO’s in general was they couldn’t grasp that Scotland actually raised taxes. The 9.9% out versus 9.6% argument made little headway, whilst unfortunately wee Doogie Alexander’s ‘6 million black hole’ did.
I found that explaining that we raised £57-60 billion in tax and sent it south untouched only to get £30 billion back as Barnett worked best. But the ‘yes’ propaganda did not make any of this clear enough.
Sorry to hear that YESGUY. I have long term health problems as well. Unfortunately, No voters have effectively endorsed Tory rule over Scotland, where they have the grand total of 1 MP. New Labour/Red Tories are a complete waste of space and time as well. At least the Tories are honest about what they are about.
MP’s expenses probes could be secret in the P&J. I have not read it, I refuse to pay the P&J.
Guess mps are thinking…
So lets see how can we make sure we keep what we gain by fraudulent means, well of course lets keep it secret from the public who pay for us to sit around doing nothing or as little as we can get away with.
Meanwhile lets cut benefits to the plebs.
@Yesguy You should definitely take someone with you if only for moral support. There are thousands of people being bullied by the DWP and their paid enforcers, Atos. I believe the Black Triangle group are campaigning about this. They appeared at the first Pacific Quay demo. Groups like that are part of the YES Alliance and need to keep up publicising what is really happening in this oil rich country. It looks like their website is suspended because of legal threats.
link to blacktrianglecampaign.org
Goulashman
Thanks for the kind words G.Your experience is one i saw everywhere on the 18th. Some people cannot get passed the default NO. regardless of the outcome to them.
I wanted a YES vote for wholesale change. Sick of seeing the poor in this country with no hope or future. The No vote keeps them on the dole or if their lucky a job that the state has to help with tax credits because employers pay is so low.
It is worse than the miners strikes throughout the 80’s. at least folk had food. I watched my area go from 100% employment to one of the worst for dole.
And their sons and daughters voted NO , without even looking at what it all means. I hope they get a taste of whats coming.
This is what Labour has done to this country. We know what to expect from the Tory’s. Labour have divided us .
Good on the folk of Glasgow for the huge amount of food left after the marches. You gave this old a cynic a feeling of pride. The food banks are here to stay now. They have made their choice and we all suffer now.
Scotland is a nation of glorious losers.
Yesguy
Do you know about Benefits and Work website run by people who used to work in DWP system. Lots of help there for people in your situation. (benefitsandwork.co.uk)Hope its useful.
@YESGUY
I wanted a YES vote for wholesale change. Sick of seeing the poor in this country with no hope or future.
Same here.
How can anyone, anywhere, seriously believe that Miliband has any chance of getting into No 10?
Check this out. Extraordinary. The guy is off his rocker.
link to youtube.com
BtP.
I agree with you there. made up to fool us and .. it worked. How many of us warned about this ….??
Muttly.
Agreed too my friend. I felt a real rush of energy and hope when we campaigned . Now the lies are shown and there are a few bleaters from the NO camp now , i wish i could do something positive.
All the waiting is killing me. Patience was never my strongest trait. but the hope with the YES vote seems a million miles away now.
i know i am still hurt. i know things might get better and reading the comments on Wings shows me i am not alone. But i still feel down. I don’t know if i am strong enough to do much but i cannot just sit bye. The keyboard warrior in me is itchin for action.
Oh to be a wee bit younger and fitter.
THE REAL WAR IS BEING CONDUCTED IN THE UK
But it doesn’t involve Tornado jets.
It’s the war against the poor.
.
The wealthy don’t like the poor. They want rid of them.
And now they see their chance to do it.
.
After all, they say, the poor smell; they don’t dress very nicely;
they don’t talk nicely, and worst of all,
they have very little money,
and the reason why they have so little is because
they smoke and drink too much;
they take drugs and gamble;
they buy Lottery tickets and go to bingo;
and they’re mostly common criminals,
shoplifting, burglary,
stealing cars, benefits cheats, and so on.
And another thing, they don’t pay rent or council tax;
they dodge car tax, insurance, and TV licence;
and, of course they don’t work, won’t work,
so they pay no income tax or NI.
They’re always scrounging and begging.
And that’s only half of it.
We can’t possibly mix with people like that.
The very thought of it makes me ill, they say.
.
The wealthy want to do away with the poor.
It used to be just the Tories who resented benefits
for the poor, paid for by the rich,
but now it’s Labour, (the Red Tories),
and the Lib Dems too.
They’re all members of the neo-Liberal Alliance.
Their aim is to get richer,much richer,
while the poor get poorer.
Their strategy – to transfer wealth from the poor
to the rich. Anyway, it’s only fair – they’ll just waste it.
But this is not a view which is static;
no, it is on the move and gathering pace.
The neo-Liberals in Government and in the City
have more power now than ever
because they have more money now than ever.
The Tories and their friends, are waiting.
Waiting till they deem the time is right
for the introduction of Euthanasia for the poor on
economic grounds, the biggest of which is that it
costs too much to keep them in benefits.
Next will be the elderly, for the same reason –
too expensive to care for them.
.
A war here, a war there, this is what 55% voted for.
Very few of them have any idea of what’s coming to them
but which they don’t know about yet.
Better Together – believed by 2 million fools.
Lollsmum.
I am one of the very lucky ones who has a wee bit extra to get bye. I have plenty support from my large family and friends who never tire of making sure i am ok. i also have whatever benefits i should get.
But i have to go for more interviews and exams because the DWP say so. What can i do if everything i should do is done?
I am too young for a pension. too old for a change of trade and unfit medically . No one in their right mind would employ me . Even the folk at the job center say that , but rules are rules.
There are so many people miles worse than me and no one is shouting on their behalf. it’s acceptable to have food banks now. just as it is for the disabled and poor to be abused.
Manandboy.
I thought we were different. But it seems the majority for the time being think not.
Votes for bankers. Who would have thought that the buggers who put us into the position of huge debts would be the ones who saved the union and turned the scots against their own.
TRAITORS ????
And i will never let them forget it, EVER
@YESGUY
All the best.
Wee apology for being a grumpy bugger toady folks.
Had so many fantastic days with the Campaign and feel a wee bit lost without the hope and energy .
Took another pain killer and feel better. Thanks for the support folks. You’re amazing.
No More moaning.
Sorry.
And the wee Ginger Dug is back. Yippee .
Well well
link to twitter.com
@YESGUY
We are all feeling down and when in pain it just seems pain is exacerbated. I do sympathise with you.
I have my bad days with RA and being on methotrexate doesn’t help as there are side effects. There are times when I think my anger will make my head explode….good music helps!
Cheers, YesGuy! keep in touch through this amazing Wings Over Scotland! We’ve suffered a rebuff – but when I see the passion of my kids and grandkids to keep the fight going, I see hope shining brightly again very soon! You’ve got many friends here – and together we can keep a hope for Scotland and her suffering, too often neglected, ill-treated vulnerable ones. I loathe everything the rightest Union stands for – and will do all I can to resist the kind of society NO wants for us.
Regarding the North East of Scotland, it still is SNP, in fact you might find that the figures that voted yes are also the same amount that vote SNP?
It’s a lovely cliche the snp haters up here love to throw around ‘the north east is forgotten about’ the north east has had more investment in it than at any other point.
Upgrades to railway lines, new bypass, the problem is not the sg it’s the shambles of our councils.
They even refused extra money FFS!
We’ll still win the North East, why? Simply because lots of no voters believe that the SNP does stand for scotland but indy was too big a risk based on all the scares.
The ONLY way to convince this lot is by good governance and getting more and more powers.
If you want to get the other 10% that are available, then you are hoping for fracking/another illegal war/another mccrone report/another thatcher
I know what is easier and would help out the guys that needs help like YesGuy and isn’t another fucking thatcher.
Crunching numbers here
Can I get some help?
HE Eastwood is exactly the same area as East renfrew shire GE constituency, minus barrhead and neilston
What sort of areas are these two settlements?
And what was the yes,no result in % of east renfrew referendum result
Just a wee thought – there has been so much discussion on strategy by the educated and insightful Wingers.
What worked well and what didn’t on these pages. It would be a shame to lose it in the fog of time between now and the next referendum, whenever that might be.
For example, I delivered many Yes newspapers to the surrounding middle/upper middle class streets with free ipod competition and celeb endorsement on the front when a business for Scotland newspaper would have been more appropriate. And rural areas could have something on farm subsidies that was more indepth than city dwellers need.
The one size fits all approach was fine for the glossy brochures but the paper could have been much more targetted. Individual Yes groups who knew the demographic could have selected the material.
For example how do we counter the pensions lie. Or the EU lie.
I set so much store by the pledge passing the million mark – how was that data base used to ensure the full 1.3 million voted yes (and whatever happened it didn’t work so what could be done better)?
How could the £6 billion black hole line Douglas Alexander repeated endlessly be dispelled?
It would be good for someone more intelligent and forensic than I outwith the official Yes team/SNP to compile a list of key recommendations to be opened by son of Blair Jenkins next time round.
YESGUY
No need to apologise- you were aye on this site giving people a boost through some dark days.
The 55% have betrayed the rest of us and Scotland’s next generations but I am more confident than ever we will win in the long run. Mibbe all it will take is a few hairline cracks appearing in every Victorian and Georgian drawing room in Edinburgh. And if that doesn’t work, I’m sure flames pishing out the taps will do it!
yesguy
link to edinburghagainstpoverty.org.uk is full of useful info.
make sure that the WCA is officially recorded.
Thank you so much folks,
As i said . Your amazing.
Wee note to Nana. They can’t fix us. the pills do some good but the side effects are rotten. Getting old is pretty tough without the ache and pains. Mind you i still have my hair and my own teeth. Although if i don’t find something to do i’ll be pulling it out.
thx all
Fred
bookmarked that page thank pal.
@Schrödinger’s cat- East Ren:36,81% Yes and 63,19% No
@YESGUY
The result of the referendum was not the end for those of us who seek a true democracy. Many, many ordinary folk like you and I who became engaged in the debate truly believed what we were arguing for.
Now that particular candle has been lit in our souls it will not be extinguished any time soon. The fight for a fairer society and an end to the greed and corruption will go on.
I know you will be part of that for as long as you can contribute, me too buddy. Keep the head held high knowing that you were doing the right thing, only 5% to persuade.
Already the Unionists parties are starting to unravel, there will be another referendum and this time we will prevail!
@Tam Jardine
Individual Yes groups who knew the demographic could have selected the material.
I couldn’t agree more.
My first question at our SNP branch meeting on Monday will be, “When do we start knocking on doors to find out how people intend to vote and why?”
My next question will be, “How do we co-ordinate this information in order to target the necessary people to change their minds?”
My third question will be, “Who do we have who can put together the necessary information for the different demographics?”
That is my sole aim for the next 8 months – working in the most effective way possible in order to get as many people voting SNP as possible. Okay, we came 4th my constituency in 2010, but if we can come a close second to the inevitable Tory b**tard who’ll be elected in the Borders, then that will be a major step forward for the next referendum.
The SNP for the first time has a large group of dedicated, experienced, bolshie and determined activists on its hands. I hope the leadership are ready for what’s about to hit them (in the nicest possible way!)
Natasha
I agree – but at the same time I know the local Yes group’s were knocking their pan in so I am not criticising them. The newspaper strategy came from above and that is where the direction and resources has to come from.
You probably won’t get that borders snp mp but building the base support for a future referendum, and of course the next Scottish General election is vital.
I never heard the argument made during the referendum that we could have rid ourselves of FPTP with a Yes…. another missed opportunity.
Plenty positives to be taken from the last week. If there ever were a group hell bent on providing the conditions for a second, successful referendum it is the Conservative and Unionist Party in its present form.
[…] Sittin’ on a beach […]
Hi Capella.
I can’t remember who it was who first flagged up the ‘electoralcalculus’ web site (may have been yourself!) but I offer thanks – it’s a very interesting concept which will allow us to enter James Kelly’s ‘poll of polls’ regularly, over the next 7 months.
Onnyhoo, you typed,
“Further speculations on voting intentions. I ran the figures through Electoral Calculus using the “new proposed 2013 boundaries”. Does anyone know if there were significant boundary changes?”
I wondered about that too, coz it does change the result you get for your prediction. So I consulted Wikipedia. Here’s a wee quote from the article I found…
Although the government initially planned the number of parliamentary seats to be reduced from 650 to 600, through the Sixth Periodic Review of Westminster constituencies under the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011, this change was dropped during the Bill’s passage through Parliament.
The next boundary review is now set to take place in 2018 meaning that the next general election must be contested using the same constituencies and boundaries as in 2010.
That’s from:-
link to en.wikipedia.org
I ran JK’s latest ‘poll of polls’ result through ‘electoralcalculus’ taking the above into consideration and got this result.
NAT 39.90% – 31 gains 37 seats
LAB 30.30% – 22 losses 19 seats
CON 15.60% – 1 gain 2 seats
LIB 6.80% – 10 losses 1 seat
When you look at the predicted results seat by seat, you can see that, as this vote is on the ‘first post the post’ system, there is much scope for Conservative and (former?) Labour voters to vote SNP, to keep their more hated party out of the seat.
The list of individual seats makes interesting reading.
You can peruse my prediction here:-
link to tinyurl.com
So, on the most recent polling, the SNP would end up with 37 seats at Westminster, possibly holding the balance of power, and, further, with a mandate for a declaration of independence, going by the old mantra of a “majority from Scotland”.
Lochside @ 2.50pm What makes you think farmers were not behind the yes vote. Four ex NFU leaders displayed their support for the yes vote very clearly in the centre of Glasgow, however the media very carefully steered clear of highlighting this, as far as I am aware only one newspaper The Courier made a half hearted attempt to report on it, and even then the reporter assigned to cover it made a rather derogatory introduction to the article on page 17 . that’s right page 17 it was this article that made me decide never ever to buy or use this newspaper again.