Scottish Labour by numbers
Posted on
October 18, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
This is how many Scottish Labour M/SPs turn out to save their own cushy jobs:
And this is how many turned out today to campaign for a living wage for workers.
We’ll leave it at that.
Every picture tell a story. A sad state of affairs.
Am passed caring…… lower than a woms arse hole, the lot of them, can they not comprehend that if side with the tory’s you sell you’r soul to the devi. Lay down curl up and die in a quiet
corner some where, for god sake and give us peace.
I mean worms, predicted spelling lol
Pretty soon that’s about how many will be left in Scotland! …..they’ll suffer the same fate as their tory pals!…..cant wait to see the faces on lamont and that fat fuck Davidson when they lose their seats in 2016…..
[…] Scottish Labour by numbers […]
so what is the cost of 100 mp’s salaries, pensions, protection, their place in WM parliament, heating, lighting, etc, and expenses.
link to parliament.uk
£67000 + £180000 x 100 = £24700000.
link to youtube.com
Have a look at everyone else’s face, not “Harpo Groucho and Beppo”
That’s what tells the story
Labour have lost their way. They are completely out of touch with the working folk. The moral high ground is now taken. With the new and vigorous membership in the SNP ready to engage in a push toward a fairer more equal society Labour has been out flanked. It’s leaders are lackluster and have taken for granted everything they once stood for.
sorry i wasn’t very clear there, mp’s salaries and expenses alone are £67000 + £180000 x 100 = £24700000.
Hi guys, sorry to go O/T Rev, do you mind if I do a wee ad for a new site Scotsoutlook.com it’s no competition to you and I’m trying to attract people to eventually use it as a lobbying site for Scots Gov, Cheers. steve
If the people of Scotland really want nothing less than DevoMax, then they know what they have to do at the GE next year.
Red Tories Out!
I’d like to think you were right kevin, but lets be honest they’re not our problem. it the sad bastards that vote for them
Theyre the problem
I’d like to think you were right kevin but they’re not really the problem are they, it’s the sad bastards that vote for them
MP’s, You can’t live with them… and .. they’re everywhere. (or nowhere. Depending !)
link to youtube.com
I thought for a moment we were going to get the definitive, up-to-date and honest number of ScotLab party members.
Alas this seems to be a State Secret better hidden than the recipe for Irn Bru,
They could have already been on the way to a living wage,but they campaigned for a NO. There again,if folk are getting a fair deal then there is no need for the labour party. They need the poor.
Elected to do their very best for Scotland, the fools cheated their own nation of its birthright and now parade their duplicity and stupidity in the streets.
Any sign of the Scottish Labour Party’s anti-working class, reactionary pals on the march?
Orange Order ignites SNP over Union
18 Oct 2014
link to archive.today
Michael MacMahon, the Labour MSP for Hamilton North and Bellshill, and a Catholic, said that he welcomed the support. He said: “I have a good relationship with the Orange Order. They understand the importance of the Union and they understand the threat.”
You missed the add-on msean …..’ to vote for them’.
If you’re trying to equate Labour with Communism your way off with that one.
Scotland’s Red Tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s collaborated in the destruction of Scotland’s future prosperity. They were unashamedly aided and abetted in this scandalous act of treason by the Daily Record newspaper and the rancidly corrupt BBC.
To put your own self-serving interests first is one thing – but to deliberately deceive, mislead and lie to your fellow Scot’s is utterly unforgivable.
Scotland must rid herself of these Red Tory Traitors.
Vote SNP.
link to encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
The sad reality is that these people are genuinely just self serving. Nothing that they do is designed to meet the needs of those they claim to represent. They are bemused when we challenge their behaviour because they assume that everyone else just like them.
…to vote for them. Aye,I stand corrected. I meant that they could have supported independence and taken a step towards a living wage being more widespread,they could have had power for the taking in Scotland,but chose to follow their tory masters instead.
link to youtube.com winds of change.
🙂
Revolting. There are no words to describe the Red Tories. They are rightfully hated in Scotland more than the Blue Tories, especially if you go by the content of all the speeches at the “Hope over Fear” rally last weekend on George Square.
If they carry on like this — and they know no other way — I almost believe the SNP and its allies will capture the entire left + centre and the Blue Tory block of 15-20% of voters will be the second largest party in Scotland.
In a way, that is what it should be. The Red Tories exist solely to keep the workers in order and not to get ideas above their station. Come on, would you really expect the establishment NOT to have a docile faux-leftie party? Anyone who still plans to vote Red Tory really needs their head seeing.
Ach what can I say, Glasgow must have been quiet the day so they decided to all meet up and go for a wee *ahem* group chat and cup of coffee down Sauchiehall Street. I mean what else can the leader of the party OF the people FOR the people do on a Saturday, it’s not like there was anything important going on like a march campaigning for a living wage for workers was there? 😉
What there WAS! Oh right enough so there was but that had nothing to do with our beloved leader and *ahem* friends from Labour though, they just happened to walking down Sauchiehall Street ahead of the protest. To be fair I believe wee Jimmie Krankie was overheard to say that she was “astonished” to find that a protest march was following her and her “friends” down the road. In her own words “didn’t these people have something better to do on a Saturday than follow her everywhere?” 😛
Scottish Labour are a spent force in Scotland. They are only interested in our votes and nothing else. They lack meaningful policies, direction and leadership. Tories in a different colour!
Where is thrice fuck off Skeletor Murphy and his fucking irn bru crate to shout for the living wage?? It is in Glasgow he could have put the taxi fare on expenses the low life fucker
David S Briggs If you’re trying to equate Labour with Socialism you are also way off with that one, too. The poor and uneducated keep them in their seats, as they always have done. Nothing is going to change. Except we will probably get more Tory MPs than we did last time, because disaffected Scottish Labour voters will go for their next best option.
always raises a smile….
link to youtube.com
There is a silent protest and foo d drive at the end if the month outside the Central hotel, because apparently the SLab are having some kind of meeting/dinner there? Should be good.
Valerie
link to indyscot.info there is nothing as powerful as silences @ times, and is apt for this juxtapose.
greed v need.
need before greed.
their version of sacred geometry is blown.
[…] Scottish Labour by numbers […]
@fred blogger 6.07pm
Thanks for the link to the Winds of Change song, really enjoyed it.
If Will Podmore is out there, just remember – I meant what I said. Still waiting for an answer to my question.
I’m sincerely surprised at the large numbers (a dozen?) who turned out for the Living Wage demo. We know that none of them actually gives a fuck, so I guess some PR Frankenstein shot a few thousand volts through his clinically dead clients and led them down there.
And don’t their faces tell a story. Can’t some kindly Tory starship engineer beam them up out of this mess? Look at Johann – she’s definitely activating that communicator on her wrist. The awful aliens of the working class are closing in, caustic venom dribbling from their incisors, melting holes in the deck. Beam me up, Gordon!
Red Tory Scabs
@Joe Kane
So the Orange Order will back anyone who opposes the SNP, in this case its Labour, the O/O are Scotland’s shame, an embarrassment to society.
@Valerie –
link to twitter.com
Didn’t Lamont say we were a something for nothing culture here in Scotland?
Natasha
beautiful song.
some people don’t the massive gulf between political theory and practice do they.
they sit it their ivory towers rationalizing what it is like to suffer and come with crazy notions like aspirations, poverty of achievement, poverty of ideas, poverty of imagination, like pick up yer bed and walk, as if one can just nip to the bank and draw out £10000 for an investment opp.
the problem is access to resources.
because as soon as you get them they are stolen.
no food well just eat cake.
Did they receive any verbals, or have unmentionables launched at them?
If not, why not? Allowing these c-c-c-characters to walk about as if nothing’s happened will just encourage them.
yes indeed labour saving their own skins. Seen a clown on twitter going on about nicola serving party before scotland . I thought what stood out was the word serving
whereas labour are concerned with power hee haw about serving.
While the labour party are tucking into their peasants: or is that pheasant “YES” can be outside feeding “Crash Moses Browns” 5000 poor and hungry
See what i did there…
Labour for the party and only the party, nothing else matters.
A day does not go by that I do not image how great Scotland could have been, and how Scotland would have flourished had we not be conned into voting No. And now the very people who lied to us for selfish reasons, continue to line their own pockets behind the public masks they wear.
It has never been more clear to me than now, that Scottish labour MSPs only care about what’s in it for them, and they use the pretence of caring about the ordinary people for their own gain.
The fact that these types of people exist, is absolutely sickening.
For so long in Scotland we have been taught to vote Labour to keep the tories out but now you couldn’t fit a cigarette paper between them but you will still hear that call as the GE draws nearer. We must spread the word that there is now no difference between them and must smash this myth. Labour is only interested in Labour not the advancement and betterment of Scotland
Ian: Allowing these c-c-c-characters to walk about as if nothing’s happened will just encourage them.
Chuckle.
Like jet lagged entertainers did they not announce how great it was “To be in Dundee- erm, Aberdeen- eh, Glasgow!”
So by impressed by Gerry Cinnamon’s song “Hope Over Fear”, would love for it to become our national anthem.
So the Orange Order will support Labour and the Tories in upcoming elections in an attempt to stop the nastiness that is Nationalism.
Does that mean we are up against the evil entity that is T.O.O.L? Will they have a secret underground base under one of the lodges? Will there be fancy sliding doors to let their tinted window, 6 wheeled, bangy drum-mobiles slip in and out unnoticed?
We need to get the posters out there, how to recognise a TOOL agent, they are walking amongst us as we speak (some not quite fully walking, look for scraped knuckles – that’s a dead give away). Also, they have a way with lyrics, if you listen carefully at their marches;
*BOOM BOOM BOOM goes the big bass drum, I want to marry my sister, but I can’t cos she’s my mum
Valerie says:
18 October, 2014 at 6:27 pm
There is a silent protest and foo d drive at the end if the month outside the Central hotel, because apparently the SLab are having some kind of meeting/dinner there? Should be good.
Perhaps folk should just stand in silence outside, with empty plates in hand, just in case the well fed imperial masters decide to throw them some scraps.
If the Daily Retard is serious about its claim to be ‘Scotland’s Champion’ (aye right) it should have that pic of the massive Labour turnout on its front page on Monday with a suitably scathing commentary. No, wait… And where was Slim Jim when he was needed? Could he not find an Irn-Bru crate? Shame on the lot of them.
7.5.2015 tick tock tick tock
thanks to Croompenstein and fred blooger for the details. I will try and go to this, and take my camera. Given its proximity to All Souls night, I would love to see a large contingent of silent skellies with their hands out, as the posh folk go into their dinner.
The sooner ‘YES’ starts the unofficial phase of the 2015 General Election campaign, with the Yes parties coming in when appropriate, then the more likely we are to be able to crush SLAB on the day.
Recognizing that Labour stands well to the right of the SNP on most important issues, offers no coherent alternative to the Tories, frequently collaborates with them at a strategic level and is likely to lose the election anyway – it’s time to give up on the easy, cheap shots about how hopeless they are and seriously answer the following questions (or something like them).
* Why do so many people in Scotland continue to vote Labour ?
* What has to be said and done to encourage them to move on to something more positive ?
These are not new questions but we quickly need to develop EFFECTIVE answers to them and get ‘out there’ with the answers !!!
Not fit for purpose.
This dinner gig at Glasgow Central is, potentially, a good opportunity for the citizens of Yes-voting Glasgow to bid farewell to the Labour party.
We can and should turn out in numbers – pack out Central Station and the streets around the hotel, wave red cards or somesuch as they enter. Let’s make it a wake for the party which promised so much for so long, and failed us all so despicably.
‘Ae fond Glasgow kiss…and then we sever.’
@Ian Brotherhood
Big placards emblazoned with ‘P45’ seems apt.
It is time for Glasgow to fire SLAB
Reasons to be cheerful::::
FACT=INDEPENDENCE IS INEVITABLE
It’s only a matter of when and it looks like it’s getting closer with every broken promise on a daily basis.It may take a wee while but it’s all one way traffic.
The first predictions that BT would screw up all on their own are bearing fruit bigstyle.
Labour will feel the pain soon enough in’their’Scotland.Even though they’ve gone all ‘grassroots’ on us for the common good! whit?
The YES clans are now growing bigger,stronger and more informed also on a daily basis.
And this will continue,unabated.like the trickle of water that turns into a torrent.
The tight grip of anger in my stomach has,for the first time since the 18th,started to wane.
If we step back and take a look at what’s happening in Scotland it is a joy to behold.
This is not the end.
This is the beginning of the journey to our destiny-and it’s starting to feel very good.
Have a nice evening -you lucky,lucky people.
@Ian Brotherhood
or ‘Tick Tock’
A silent ‘Tick Tock’ demonstration appeals to me.
A countdown clock to 7/5/15 would be appropriate, close to the entrance
Damn! I’ve just typed ‘Wigs Over Scotland.’
Keep yer hair oan, Grousy!
The only reason the SLAB few have turned out at this demo is because they’re surrounded by their pals in the Trade Unions. If this was a mass gathering of ordinary folk fightng for a living wage then they wouldn’t have been anywhere near there because they know they would been set upon for their deceit and hypocrisy.
Some folk have been asking about another Glasgow WOS social – why don’t we have it the same night as the Slab dinner?
WOS 7 – ‘Oi! Slab! Yer Tea’s Oot!’
Re: Rigmac @ 7.24pm,
FROFL – Tears streaming down my face.
Of course, we’ll need some good songs to sing along to while they’re having their seven courses, silver service etc…
Simply Red, ‘Money’s Too Tight To Mention’ –
link to youtube.com
It would be a nice gesture if we brought along some foodstuffs for those we are about to hoof onto the dole…what would be suitable? Hmm…
@Stoker
*Bows and doffs cap
@Alt Clut – What has to be said and done to encourage them to move on to something more positive
One of our biggest weapons which I’m sure will be used at the silent protest on the 30th is the troughers expenses here for example is Murphys and on the IPSA site you can search for the rest
link to tinyurl.com
Sarwars…
link to tinyurl.com
@Ian Brotherhood
I sense a round of appropriately funny foodstuffs to give them coming on….
Is the Slab dinner on 30th Oct or Nov?
Knowing them as we do, if there’s any wind of a significant demo, silent or otherwise, they’ll do a ‘Blair’ and have the thing five hours earlier, or else cancel it.
Anyone able to confirm the details?
This dinner gig being attended by the Red Tories in Glasgow really takes the biscuit, doesn’t it.
Have they no shame whatsoever. Its being held in the city which sits at the heart of the poverty scandal.
These filthy red tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s couldn’t rub peoples noses in it any harder if they tried. A more despicable bunch of cretins would be hard to find.
They just seem to leap from one disastrous calamity to another.
I wonder what space cadet was responsible for that, Anus Sarwar?
Scotland really needs to rid itself of this red tory plague.
btw – I like that idea, Valerie. Thousands of silent luminous skeletons standing with one outstretched arm, surrounding a giant grim reaper carrying a large placard (instead of a scythe), and on that placard there’s a picture of a ticking clock accompanied with large words saying “PLEASE SIR, MAY I HAVE SOME MORE”
@Ian Brotherhood
We needs some kippers for Johann Le Munt, as every time I see her, I’m just reminded of the smell for some reason.
Ballie – Lard, lots of lard
Murphy – Laxative chocolate, cunningly disguised as cadbury’s dairy milk (Irn Bru flavour – can tell him it’s a new thing in his honour – he’d buy that)
Clunk – open to offers….
@Ian Brotherhood
Scottish Labour Gala Dinner 2014
O/t
So! No one knew about the IndepenDANCE at the Scottish Parliament today ???? Very few turned up! Remember Edinburgh voted NO! Glasgow voted YES . Why wouldn’t you support the poor Edinburgh IndepenDANCE ! . A wee girl called Annie Roberts tried to get the MAIN people to come to the Scottish Parliament today to have a fun day! Ceilidhs, loom bands etc. Gerry Cinnamon didn’t come! Tommy couldn’t come! I’m sorry, but if you want to have Independence it can’t just be based in YES Glasgow!! You are still preaching to the converted! Not good!
Of course, we’ll need some good songs to sing along to while they’re having their seven courses, silver service etc…
Like this?
link to youtube.com
Motorhead had the right idea.
@cynical Highlander –
Cheers.
We still need to nail the venue – that notice mentions ‘central Glasgow’, which may or may not mean Glasgow Central. Still, doesn’t matter that much – we’ll find them.
O/t
My last comment has,nt appeared yet. Is this a Glasgow based site? You know Edinburgh voted NO? Why can’t you do another Edinburgh night instead of patting yourselves on the back and going to GLASGOW where of course you are welcomed! I’m in FiFe and I was upset today that no one came out for that wee lass in Edinburgh! What is the point of preaching in Glasgow where we know it a YES! Preaching to the converted! That has been YES downfall! Let’s convert Edinburgh! Come on guys get real!
I was at that march today and I never even saw them.
Good thing too, the banner pole I was holding would have been a bit too unwieldy and awkward to beat someone about the head with!
@ joe kane
The Scotsman article you archived seems to have been written in 2009
link to archive.today
Labour Gala Dinner featured here… from 2:46 on…
link to youtube.com
Croompenstein says:
18 October, 2014 at 8:18 pm
@Alt Clut – What has to be said and done to encourage them to move on to something more positive
One of our biggest weapons which I’m sure will be used at the silent protest on the 30th is the troughers expenses here for example is Murphys and on the IPSA site you can search for the rest
link to tinyurl.com
Sarwars…
link to tinyurl.com
Thanks for that. I was looking for this info just the other day and got nowhere fast. I’ve now saved the site for future reference.
😉
@Flower of Scotland
People can’t be expected to go to an event they don’t know about. By the way, I live in the Borders, and while I would love to attend every independence rally going, I haven’t the time or the money to pop up to Glasgow or Edinburgh every weekend. I do my best to get to what I can. Please stop having a go at us.
Rigmac7 says
Murphy – Laxative chocolate, cunningly disguised as cadbury’s dairy milk (Irn Bru flavour – can tell him it’s a new thing in his honour – he’d buy that)
surely that should be a cream egg for murphy
And a waffer-theen meent for Jabba…
I was at the Glasgow one today.
The speakers were excellent !
Owen Jones and Jeane Freeman especially.
Scottish labour didn’t go down well with the crowd. Some of the biggest cheers of the day was when Labour got lambasted for their 13 years in power.
@Flower of Scotland
Edinburgh is way out of my travel range, since I’m dependent on public transport or getting a lift from someone.
Otherwise I’d happily go there every time there was something on…
I agree that it is important not to preach to the converted and we have to concentrate on Edinburgh and Aberdeen in particular. I think there is a need to target these cities, but in a specific manner, even down to the accents of the people speaking.
Tommy Sheridan is a local hero in Glasgow, but would he have the same effect in Edinburgh, especially to those we want to convert? I can imagine musical entertainment like The Rezillos would maybe go down better than Glasgow-centric lyrics in songs about “nuclear weapons on the Clyde”.
Anyway, I hope the Queen of the East and the Queen of the North can also show how it’s done and we can all support each other. It is probably easier and cheaper to travel to Edinburgh from Glasgow, for example, than up from the Borders. Do not worry, in the words of the song, “this is only the start of the show”!
@ Croompenstein.
Here is s summary of the expenses, with some added information.
link to dl.dropboxusercontent.com
Not my research, someone else posted it and I converted the post into a .pdf
Forgot to add that I have been sending YouTube links of the rallies to friends abroad and they are really desperate to visit Scotland just to attend the rallies, they say they look such fun! So a win-win situation, more international attention and a boost to Scottish tourism. Interestingly, these people never thought of visiting the UK before “because of the royal family”…
I would be grateful for any links of the Glasgow date, especially Jeanne Freeman speaking.
@Kenny
Should be video of the event somewhere.
I distinctly remember someone with a professional quality video camera there. Not sure where he was from…
Pretty sure it wasn’t the BBC though for some reason! 😉
@Joe,
Aye, you’re right, I forgot he could take a yoke
Link to tourism: if we were independent, we could join the Schengen area of Europe and really mine it from Chinese, Russian, Indian tourists who usually have Schengen visas, but the UK one is a nightmare to arrange, so they don’t come here.
Many of these tourists are desperate to visit Britain, but put off by the separate visa. Scotland has all the stuff these people are after anyway — castles, bards, scenery, whisky tours, Loch Ness — so they might not miss the English part so much…
Ok guys. Fine. Just ignore my posts! Carry on? Meet in Glasgow. Pat yourselves on the back. Yeah! You did good! Edinburgh voted NO! I met a friend today that I had met at the Newsroom on a Wings night out in Edinburgh. We have become friends because of WINGS. We went to a poor turnout at an EDINBURGH IndepenDANCE day in Edinburgh. No one seems to care! You can do your pat myself on the back Glasgow things! THEY voted YES! Edinburgh voted NO! Do some people not understand? Is this a social evening site or an Independence site?
So unlike the advert it takes more than Juan Sheet to save their jobs and their expense accounts – a hundred fold, but just a handful of ‘sheets’ to give a ‘sheet’ about a living wage for the working class they never tire of telling us they represent.
God they are just a bunch of hypocritical ‘sheets’
They just keeping digging a big huge hole. And no matter what happens, no amount of kitchen roll jokes will help mop up the shit they find themselves in.
I think we all know, in our hearts that, labour couldn’t give two f#@%ks; about the poor, sick or disadvantaged. They never have, for about 60 years, time to consign them to history.
@Ian Brotherhood
And oh, how the crowd would wait with baited breath for the rumble, the burps and the farts – then the swelling and the *kerpumph as intestines splattered while Jabba the Clunk sat there, looking down at his exposed ribcage with a look of mild confusion on his face, before turning to an advisor and asking “I am being paid for this one, amn’t I?”
Natasha! O/t
I think I maybe a lot older than you but I’m on Facebook and I’ve known about Independance for a while! Try it!
@gerry parker – Nice one gerry, my friend was asking me for the figures as he wants to put it on a placard at the silent protest on the 30th..thanks
O/t
Sorry Natasha! Who is us that I’m getting at?
@ Croompenstein.
You’re welcome.
@Flower of Scotland.
The social evening part of the site is in off topic.
@Flower of Scotland
Please calm down. No one’s ignoring your posts; this is now my second reply. As I said, people can’t be expected to go to something they didn’t know about.
Re MPs’ expenses; I’ve just been on the IPSA website and discovered something very interesting.
Depending on which tab you click on, you get completely different figures for annual expenses. For example, the first set of figures I looked at for Michael Moore had him claiming an average of £185,000 a year since 2010. That was on the ‘Aggregate’ tab, searching by MP’s name.
However, using the ‘Interactive Map’ tab and clicking on his constituency, the figures I got were between £41,000 and £56,000 a year except for 2013-2014 which tallied with the amount on the other tab.
There is therefore a discrepancy of over £100,000 for each year from 2010 to 2013 on IPSA’s own website.
I don’t know if this is true for other MPs, but I have emailed them to ask what is going on.
Ian Brotherhood,
I read on Twitter somewhere that Labour were having a meeting at the Central Hotel in Glasgow. Do you think that’s the same thing? I could be wrong, it’s just something I read online so it might be nonsense.
Thanks Oneironaut! See you at a Wings Night sometime when it’s NOT in Glasgow!
Thanks Kenny! We love Tommy! Please come to Edinburgh!
Regarding Michael Mcmahon MSP being a unionist. I worked beside mick many moons ago, back in the days of heavy engineering in Scotland, he was a welder. A trade unionist and Irish Repulican activist , Pira activist and fighting fund collector, black beret bond member…….changed days!!
Flower of Scotland says:
18 October, 2014 at 8:49 pm
O/t
My last comment has,nt appeared yet. Is this a Glasgow based site? You know Edinburgh voted NO? Why can’t you do another Edinburgh night instead of patting yourselves on the back and going to GLASGOW where of course you are welcomed! I’m in FiFe and I was upset today that no one came out for that wee lass in Edinburgh! What is the point of preaching in Glasgow where we know it a YES! Preaching to the converted! That has been YES downfall! Let’s convert Edinburgh! Come on guys get real!
———————————————————
FoS,
To a certain extent i feel i have to run with you on this one.
My reasons are not important but i feel there is a much larger problem here which nobody seems to be addressing. This is going to turn out counterproductive to the Yes movement. Your post confirms that this is already taking place.
btw, your announcement of this “DANCE” was news to me.
The problem, i feel, is a lack of organisation from a central point. Thousands upon thousands of us are itching to keep this momentum going. And in the mass enthusiasm which exists in the referendum aftermath, events seem to be springing up all over the place – sometimes with more than one event happening on the same day at different parts of the country. People can’t be everywhere at the same time and most people can’t afford to keep going to event after event. Jeezo, i’m still struggling to find time and money to attend my first post ref event.
We in the Yes movement badly need a central organisational committee (for want of a better description) to strategically organise events around the country specifically designed to target that town, city or area etc.
In a way, what is happening right now, IMO, is counterproductive and a bit shambolic.
🙁
Anent nuclear weapons on the Clyde & parochialism, if the balloon goes up at Faslane, Edinburgh won’t be immune.
We need something to put donations for the Slabbers in.
Anyone have a spare trough?
@ Stoker
Nail on the head there @ 9:38.
WTF is Lord Winston doing standing next to yon cretin Milliband in the above video ?
Is there some genetic engineering needing done up here ? 😉
It looks awfy like some peeps are drink posting tonight, never a good idea.
Please don’t get upset, Flower of Scotland, but put all your energy into making sure Edinburgh puts on the best shindig of them all. I will admit that the Edinburgh events always seem a little bit feeble to me, but I am sure it is not from want of trying by you! There has been talk of the “Hope over Fear” rallies visiting other cities, so I hope this comes off. Be sure to advertise all Edinburgh, Fife and other events on here and I am sure everyone will enjoy a great wee day oot!
Have to admit, what scunners me maybe most of all was Edinburgh voting not to become an international capital city! To walk around and see the embassies of the USA, China, Germany, France, England (!), Russia, India, Japan, Brazil, Italy… All the investment that would pour in. And once we got out finances in order and our petrocurrency up and running, Scotland would be a not unimportant place internationally and we really would be “punching above our weight” to use the daft rhetoric constantly bleated from WM.
@Flower of Scotland
“Thanks Oneironaut! See you at a Wings Night sometime when it’s NOT in Glasgow!”
Not sure if that was meant as sarcasm or not. (It’s difficult to tell online, and I’m generally immune to it anyway!)
But yep, I’m in North Ayrshire over on the west coast. And being one of those people the Tories and the media hate so much (as in, on benefits), I’m limited in how much I can put into travel expenses.
If I could get to Edinburgh regularly for events, I would. But money is tighter than usual at this time of year.
Please don’t take it as a personal insult to the people of Edinburgh or anything…
@Robert Kerr says: 18 October, 2014 at 5:26 pm:
“I thought for a moment we were going to get the definitive, up-to-date and honest number of ScotLab party members. Alas this seems to be a State Secret better hidden than the recipe for Irn Bru.”
Ah! Yes! Robert, Irn Bru – and the secret ingredient and the London Labour in Scotland Party membership numbers also has a secret ingredient. It is the segment of those claimed Labour Party membership that are counted as Party Members who only signed up as members of a social club.
@Flower of Scotland
At least you are in the central belt. What are street light?
The MSM are based in Glasgow as are the Labour heartlsnds, kill that properly and the rest will follow sad but the facts.
@FoS –
Please don’t get upset about this stuff. It’s up to everyone to organise their own shindigs. It ain’t ‘official’ in any way. Only reason Glasgow’s been mentioned so often on this thread is because the Labour Gala dinner looks likely to be happening there Thursday after next.
Take Paula Rose for example – she started her own Wings nights in Brechin. The first one only had two people there (including Paula and the barman) – now she has a thriving Yes-themed pole-dancing club with a six-figure turnover, and half a dozen people working under her.
@oneironaut
I really wasn’t getting at you! I’m a bit brassed off with the camaramedie of us Yes Glasgow guys! I do not live in Edinburgh. I live in N E Fife. A real NO area. I travelled to Edinburgh today to a wee IndepenDANCE! Few people there! A wee girl called Annie posted it on Facebook. I’m 68 yrs old, and guys Facebook isn’t that difficult. If you want to keep up with younger people just do it! Sorry, but you all seem old saying you don’t do Facebook. Keep up!
gerry parker says:
18 October, 2014 at 9:31 pm
The social evening part of the site is in off topic.
Gerry,
How do i get to this “off topic” – where on the site is it?
@ Stoker.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
link at the top of the page order Zany Humour.
HTH
This is put across in various ways, but think it would also be useful to put across to people that there isn’t much point in piling Labour votes high in Scotland in an effort to keep the Tories out. If the Tories do reach 309 or 310 seats (or even, somehow, a majority) it will because they have managed that figure outside Scotland once again. In effect, a vote for Labour (in this scenario) almost become a wasted vote. I know most on here know that Scotland doesn’t get the government we vote for, but these are the ways I would phrase it when talking to anyone voting Labour to ‘keep the Tories out’ and that’s before we get into there being little policy difference anyway.
@ Johnny.
Yep – here’s the starting point.
link to theweebluebook.com
The things you see when you haven’t got a ….
Sunday Herald front page or is it?
link to twitter.com
@ Marcia.
I wonder what the back page looks like!
@Marcia
Who pushed her?
O/T. Ian Brotherhood. How do I get a job working under Paula Rose in her lap dancing club?
The SH have now said they have technical issues. 🙂
@Marcia says:
The SH have now said they have technical issues. 🙂
Are HSE investigating?
To whom it may concern:
Re Supporting Independence while
supporting the anti-Independence BBC
by paying the Licence Fee.
It’s make your mind up time.
No ifs no buts.
This is not a game.
@Grouse Beater says: 18 October, 2014 at 8:00 pm:
“Damn! I’ve just typed ‘Wigs Over Scotland.”
as long as it’s not : –
Awa’ Whigs, Awa’
Chorus.-Awa’ Whigs, awa’!
Awa’ Whigs, awa’!
Ye’re but a pack o’ ("Tractor" - Ed) louns,
Ye’ll do nae gude at a’.
Our thrissles flourish’d fresh and fair,
And bonie bloom’d our roses;
But Whigs cam’ like a frost in June,
An’ wither’d a’ our posies.
Awa’ Whigs, &c.
Our ancient crown’s fa’en in the dust-
Deil blin’ them wi’ the stoure o’t!
An’ write their names in his black beuk,
Wha gae the Whigs the power o’t.
Awa’ Whigs, &c.
Our sad decay in church and state
Surpasses my descriving:
The Whigs cam’ o’er us for a curse,
An’ we hae done wi’ thriving.
Awa’ Whigs, &c.
Grim vengeance lang has taen a nap,
But we may see him wauken:
Gude help the day when royal heads
Are hunted like a maukin!
Awa’ Whigs, &c.
By Robert Burns.
Note :For those who may not know the Whigs were the early Liberal Party.
@Flower of Scotland
I’m just West of the city and would happily spread the word and come in but I didn’t know about any event going on. I don’t do Facebook/Twitter or social media in general and it’s only through people mentioning something here that I even find out about stuff going on.
I was going to suggest that there might be a market for a central site listing upcoming events and then I see that fred blogger has posted a link to http://www.indyscot.info at the top of this thread. Am I the only one who didn’t know it existed?
Many thanks again, Marcia. I was hoping you wouldn’t let us down by not drawing attention to SH’s front cover.
Is the editorial suggesting Lamont is in freefall?
I wonder if SH will sustain their advocacy of self-governance or steadily revert to type?
@Marcia –
God almighty, that SH ‘front-page’ is terrifying. Reminds me of that movie, ‘The Ring’.
Imagine Jola coming right through your telly screen and flying towards you…
‘Whigs’ ‘wigs’ – a jovial way to end the day. Thanks Robert.
Sunday Herald front page
link to twitter.com
Flower of Scotland,
Your comments regarding facebook are ill informed. Many, many people around the world do not use facebook. It is a deliberate choice made, not because they find facebook ‘too difficult’, or hard to understand’, but rather they fundamentally disagree with how facebook works, and the way it harvests personal data 24/7.
This frankly selfish notion, that ‘oh well, I put it on facebook, so it’s tough luck if you won’t use facebook’, is unbelievably short sighted.
My personal opinion, is that facebook ,is a pernicious global commercial enterprise which harvests personal data for profit, and erodes any concept of personal privacy. I want no part of it.
Meetings or get togethers advertised only on facebook, will never be seen by me or the many, many others who CHOOSE not to use it. Fact is, MOST people online do NOT use facebook.
Nothing to do with age, btw.
i do hope the hope over fear rally will tour around but i agree local people (Edinburgh in this instance) need to organise their own events, indeed like this girl’s ceilidh.
But they need to tweet, SMS, facebook etc and publicize them well so as many people as possible know they are happening.
To facilitate people who would like to go but can’t afford to travel event organizers might like to link up to a car-sharing site.
Drivers going to a rally with an extra seat might accept a passenger for free or a nominal “share” or maybe the passenger could even afford the full share of costs if it comes in well under bus or train fares. Extends the chances of a lift beyond friends and relatives.The Greens should like this idea!
Just an idea for “pooling and sharing” so we’re all in it (the vehicle) together!
@Flower of Scotland
Sorry to hear that the turnout for the IndepenDANCE was not as hoped for. I think though that one of the main issues must have been that it was not particularly well publicised.
I never read anything about it on here for example though it may have been and I missed it.
It is certainly not a city thing and I’m sure all Independence supporters would attend every event if they possibly could. For example have you heard yet of the event planned for Dundee City Square on St Andrews day?
I hadn’t until yeterday, Brian Doonthetoon has posted a message over in Off Topic at 11:50 pm last night and can be found here:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
I agree with what an earlier reply to you had said in that these events need to be centralised so as anyone can see easily what may be happening in their area. Sounds a good idea.
Hopefully you can make it along to Dundee also, might see you there 🙂
What a front page for the Herald!
link to facebook.com
Ok guys. I’m talking to myself. I really don’t post much on Wings. Loved their night out in Edinburgh at the Newsroom. Felt part of a YES family. Met a lovely friend who I talk to and met today in Edinburgh at the FAILED Independance get together! Some on here are new people and havnt been to a WINGS night. I highly recommend one( in Edinburgh ) of course!
You of course know that the BBC had 150 staff at Queen Street in Edinburgh and now have 30 at the TUN near Holyrood! But you just carry on slapping yourselves on the back about the Hope Over Fear in Glasgow! You have the BBC at Pacific Quay!
How are you going to get Edinburgh to vote YES!
Not by slapping yourselves on the back about a yes vote in Glasgow! NO! You have to pay some attention to Edinburgh
,
I joined Facebook just three weeks ago and I’m not sure that I’ve done myself any favours. To me it’s like going to a party in a crowded room where everybody is continually taking out their wallets and showing you pictures of their kids, their holidays, their unusual photographs of various things, and nearly every bugger want’s to show you little boxes of words about how we should all love our children, our parents, black people in Africa, soldiers everywhere and pets.
There is some (SOME) interesting stuff about politics but not much, and I’m seriously thinking about dumping it.
@ Balaaargh.
That was a worthwhile link, thanks, I didn’t know about it .
Got it bookmarked now though.
link to indyscot.info
gerry parker says:
18 October, 2014 at 10:21 pm
@ Stoker.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
link at the top of the page order Zany Humour.
HTH
Cheers, Gerry.
Flower of Scotland: You of course know that the BBC had 150 staff at Queen Street in Edinburgh and now have 30 at the TUN ne
True. A scandal.
They were given a chunk of land at the top of Leith Walk for a song to build a new HQ promised but decided Scotland didn’t count and sold it off for megabucks and kept the profit.
I read a comment a few weeks back stating that johann Lamont is over six feet tall.
I am no expert, but I think being sucked into a black hole seems a bit extreme to gain a few inches.
Lamont Down The Lavvy.
A three-flush job.
It’s getting late. I’ve just spotted that needless apostrophe in ‘want’s’.
I was at a gathering in Perth today of around 130 people. Mostly poor people by the look of them to be quite frank.
They meeting seemed pointless to me apart from the fact that it’s meetings like this that keep people informed. But it seemed to be without purpose apart from girning about the Tories. It needed leadership and it needs direction like a lot of these Yes meetings. Here’s hoping the SNP takes cognisance of what’s going on throughout the country.
@Kenny says:18 October, 2014 at 9:10 pm:
“Tommy Sheridan is a local hero in Glasgow, but would he have the same effect in Edinburgh, especially to those we want to convert?”
Tommy played to packed meetings all over Scotland, even here in Kelty & Cowdenbeath here in Fife – The very heart of Broon’s constituency.
You always have a chance of escaping a black hole until you reach “the event horizon” otherwise know as The Point of No Return.
Jola and Labour have reached that point and will disappear into the blackness never to be seen again.
Flower of Scotland
I am sorry to hear the event you speak of was not well attended. I have been out of signal for the last week u but if it was only pushed on Facebook it would have passed me by even if I had been here. I really hate facebook.
Wings Edinburgh needs to happen of course and soon. but then I really believe we need something in place that is more regular, regional and predictable rather than have this protracted period of reflection and soul searching every time.
I have no time right now but will post something on this on O/T.
Try not to be too pissed off. Many folk are still confused, trying to regroup and to reconnect with neglected wives, children etc.
McConnell, as quoted on the front page of the Sunday Herald:
‘We have lost our purpose and vision.’
Huh?
Does anyone, apart from Jack, believe that he ever possessed (or is capable of identifying) either?
In all his time in public life, he looked genuinely hunted, as if expecting to have his collar felt at any minute. He subjected his wife to the most excruciating embarrassment witnessed in modern Scottish politics in order to smooth his own power-grab.
And now he’s some kind of elder statesman?
Nah.
You’re off down the lavvy as well pal…as soon as we get rid of Johann (flushes again).
Robert Peffers says:
18 October, 2014 at 11:04 pm
@Kenny says:18 October, 2014 at 9:10 pm:
“Tommy Sheridan is a local hero in Glasgow, but would he have the same effect in Edinburgh, especially to those we want to convert?”
Tommy played to packed meetings all over Scotland, even here in Kelty & Cowdenbeath here in Fife – The very heart of Broon’s constituency.
One of his talks in Aberdeen was packed out, with a crowd of more than 100 people left out in the street. Tommy came out and addressed the crowd in the street for 15-20 minutes before returning to speak to the folk inside. I had never experienced anything like it. It was then I knew that, no matter what happened on the 18th September, that something in Scotland had changed. Even in the strong NO areas, there are huge numbers of people that want independence. Independence may take a wee bit longer than people expected, but it is still coming, nevertheless.
@alex Clark( I liked thepnr)
Thanks Alex about the 30th Nov. There is a big one planned in Edinburgh on the 29th nov.At least 2 or 3k people have said that they will attend. Although Dundee is nearer to me I’m going to all the Edinburgh ones because they need the most support.
Natasha.The Borders aren’t that much further from Edinburgh than N E Fife. Are they!
Re Sunday Herald front page
Johann doon the stank!
A straight flush.
Shall buy that!
Flower over Scotland
Please stop picking on Glasgow. Glasgow did nothing to you other than vote Yes. The fact that Edinburgh and the east coast didn’t has nothing at all to do with Glasgow. Glasgow also got goose stepped all over by the unionists for voting Yes, unless you’ve forgotten. No one’s slapping themselves on the back either because there’s still a job to be done so stop it with the division tactics, please.
There’s a lot of work still to be done in Glasgow as there is everywhere else. We need to be getting together just now, not pick on each other.
I have no doubt that everyone on this site would happily back you up with anything you can think of doing that might bring more people from the east coast on side with independence – Glaswegians included. If you have any ideas, please share them but whinging about Glaswegians voting Yes, as though we did you a bad turn by doing so, isn’t helping anyone.
More S lab deceit: link to newsnetscotland.scot
Sorry if this has already been posted
@Rough Bounds.
Stick with Facebook. I know it’s hard but I’m afraid that’s where a lot of information there.I do them all. I know it’s time consuming but for me it’s Wings then Newsnet , Bella , Wee ginger Dug, Munguins republic. Then Facebook. You just have to.
Eye witnesses video of the event.
link to youtube.com
Alex Clark – and it was sooo good of you to give up your handle, just in time for Slab’s needs. 😉
@kirsty
Who are you? That’s fine. I will stop going on about Edinburgh.
I was hoping to persuade people to get very active about our capital city that needs a lot of help to go YES.
@Flower of Scotland – u need to calm down. I look here and on twitter and there is usually a cross over of people mentioning events.
This is the 1st time I’ve heard indepenDANCE mentioned.
BTW u seem to have 2 different avatars which is unusual for here
@Stoker says: 18 October, 2014 at 9:38 pm:
“We in the Yes movement badly need a central organisational committee (for want of a better description) to strategically organise events around the country specifically designed to target that town, city or area etc.
In a way, what is happening right now, IMO, is counterproductive and a bit shambolic.
:(“
Bear in mind that, just like the Rev Stu, the people in the thick of the campaign all needed a break and a rest. Not only that but think about the organizers of the several Indy parties dealing with new memberships and such like. Things will get back on stream soon I’m sure.
Facebook is worth it for me, as what you really need to do is “like” the pages you are interested in, and they will come into your newsfeed, and just ignore the pics of folks dogs and kids etc. You get all the updates from SNP, Nicola etc., and I’ve liked a lot of newspages, then the anti fracking pages, as well as the pro indy ones
Balaaargh says:
18 October, 2014 at 10:42 pm
I was going to suggest that there might be a market for a central site listing upcoming events and then I see that fred blogger has posted a link to http://www.indyscot.info at the top of this thread. Am I the only one who didn’t know it existed?
Thanks, Balaaargh and fred blogger, I wasn’t aware of that site either.
Now bookmarked for future reference.
btw – I’m also one of the many who don’t do facebook.
Sunday Herald on Facebook.
64% rise in readership!
15, 320 extra copies sold.
Sunday Herald on Facebook says
64% rise in readership.
15320 extra copies sold.
Since the referendum I’ve been reading the posts on this site and some others trying to make sense of it all. sometimes I feel great hope and think this is only the begining and independance is just around the corner then other times I feel total despair that we will never free ourselves from the vicious corrupt regime otherwise known as the UK establishment.
There’s 7 months between now and the next general election and the worst thing that could happen is that we lose that amazing momentum that was gained from the referendum, there are just so many rallys we could have so many speeches preaching to the converted, wouldn’t it be something if we could change these political rallys into something more social and less political something that would be more of a family fun day than a political rally
We could attract people who wouldn’t otherwise attend a political event and let them see that we are not radical fanatics that we are people just like them with the same hopes and fears they have, obviously it would have political undertones but the emphasis would be on sharing our vision of a socially just independant Scotland
Politics is a huge turn off for many people and they will vote for whatever is easiest and doesn’t have them thinking too much or not vote at all I believe this way could change the way we engage with people and show people that politics doesn’t have to be about men in suits spouting venom and scoring points over other men in suits
@Fairliered (10.33) –
‘How do I get a job working under Paula Rose in her lap dancing club?’
I’m ever so sorry, but that information is classified.
Last post tonight. Maybe for a while. I only post when I’m really angry. I’m not getting at anyone! Nor any city. I want Independence for Scotland,. Always have. We do have to support the ones that need help the most. It’s childish to suggest I’m getting at Glasgow. You do not understand debate.
I will enjoy meeting old friends at a Wings night in the future.
Flower of Scotland
Who am I? My name’s Kirsty, just like my name tag says – I don’t hide behind a fake name – I’ll happily give you my surname and some background info too, if you like.
I know you want to get people to back up your efforts on the east coast. Like I said, I have no doubt that just about everyone on this site will help you with that, myself included. But you were wicked bitching about Glasgow as though Glaswegians had done you wrong by voting Yes. All I’m asking is don’t take your anger out on the wrong targets. If you want people to get behind events in Edinburgh, we will. Just don’t start moaning about Glaswegians as though we did something to offend you. That’s just divisive.
Hi Robert Louis!
I agree, Facebook is horrendous! However I will do anything to get Scottish Independence. If that means doing Facebook , that’s ok by me.
didnt know anything was on in Edin. to-dayy
@Kirsty. I have been in Glasgow, at BBC Demos. I’ve watched Hope over fear on Kevin’s site, Independence Live. I love Glasgow. I’m appealing for help for Edinburgh. Please don’t make this personal.
@emagra – We could attract people who wouldn’t otherwise attend a political event and let them see that we are not radical fanatics that we are people just like them
emegra believe me you would not believe the seismic shift that has happened with those people you describe. Just for example I would give you 2 folk I work with and who were not politically active before the ref. My mate and his wife have joined the SSP and the other has joined the SNP. Things have changed in our wee Scotland hang on for the ride….
@Flower of Scotland
Dont worry, it’s still early days yet, the SNP are already organising events, but things take a little time to fully co-ordinate logistically, everywhere will be involved, the length and breadth of Scotland so that people in those areas with lower populations are fully supported
We all understand your frustration, remember we did’nt win yet…
I didn’t know there was anything on in Edinburgh today either.
I don’t know whether I would have gone or not. I went to almost everything for months running up to the referendum. I drove to Peebles and Galashiels and Melrose and Biggar and Dalkeith and Carluke and Edinburgh and Glasgow. Several times. I’m tired and I could do with a bit of my life back. Is that wrong? I’m going away next weekend, and if I don’t practise four pages of quite hard recorder music before then, I’m going to make a fool of myself in front of the tutors who are coming from Flanders.
I decided quite positively to give up the entire summer of 2014 to the independence campaign, and I did. Including the last Flanders recorder weekend in June – I went leafleting for the public meeting I organised, instead. But it’s autumn now. How many days am I going to spend hanging around in the cold, holding a Yes saltire? I’m not sure.
Is it up to anyone to organise a meeting, tell a couple of mates, and then if we don’t all hear about it by some sort of telepathy and flock to it in our thousands, we’re bad people?
We desperately need some sort of framework within which these events are organised, to ensure that only the ones with a decent chance of success go ahead, and these ones are properly publicised. Otherwise I could organise something in Shotts next Thursday, then bitch like hell when nobody came.
Flower Of Scotland
ignore Kirsty
we have more important things to discuss…know what I mean?
Some folk need to remember we are all on the same side and stop bitching.
It is not Glasgow v Edinburgh or anywhere else, unless i missed something..!
Is there any way of having a link to the SNP on a part formal/informal basis to help with information on official events and maybe have a regional co ordinating team from each of the regions ?
Could the SNP use its database of the tens of thousands of members to email a newsletter outlining official SNP events which they would like supported ?
This newsletter could contain links to pages on here and the other pro indy blog sites to direct folk to ‘unofficial’ events like the demo’s, rallies etc ?
In return maybe the SNP could try provide speakers when possible ?
I might be blithering here, and apologies if i am, but it seems there is a need for a sit down with the political party SNP (merely due to membership size, not discounting others) and talking to the likes of stu and those running the other indy sites and discussing how they can help the fight against labour.
After all, thousands of the new SNP/Greens members were inspired to join up due to sites like wings.
We need to work together as one, and rail against labour in 2015.
Yessers amount to at least 1 million 6 hundred thousand people, some from labour, we need to keep them from changing back out of habit, we need our side to turn out in big numbers again, only apathy from the electorate can save labour in Scotland, lets work to keep the labour Yes voters on the side of social justice and equality.
Sorry for going on a bit!
@Flower of Scotland 11.18pm
Is there a train service to Edinburgh from NE Fife? Because there sure as hell isn’t one from the Borders. We haven’t had a railway since 1969 thanks to Beeching. Even when the new service is up and running it still won’t come to my town; it’ll be a half hour drive or a bus once an hour to get to the nearest train station.
I’m lucky – I have my own transport and I’m relatively well off. But I also have family and work commitments. And for a lot of people, dependent on public transport, regular visits to Edinburgh involve a 2 hour bus journey either way. So don’t make uninformed comments about the Borders being no further away from Edinburgh than NE Fife. We all want to support as many events as we can, but it’s totally unreasonable to have a go at people if they can’t get to things or didn’t know they were happening.
geeo I admire your energy, but just some comments on your ideas from a practical point of view. The political parties will not use their database of information, that would be against their data protection.
By joining that political party you are in effect signing up to their “rules”, and you go along with them as much as you want or not, or leave. There is no way the SNP would collaborate with groups, they already have their own structure for their own members on events etc. EG I attend my local branch meeting and we discuss xyz, and I seek to make my feelings known to my party.
It really needs to be co-ordination of the various groups outside the political parties, which I agree with, as many people do not want to join a party. I am a member of various FB pages such as No Red Tories, the 45%, but these are mainly conduits for info., and advertising various events.
@Morag.
You know I wasn’t getting at anyone. We all talk about keeping the young involved. This wee girl Annie put the event up on Facebook a few weeks ago. She invited Tommy and I thought Gerry Cinammon was coming but she couldn’t attract any major personality. There was a rally about 3 weeks ago that I did post here. Marco Biagi spoke, which was great but he was really the only personality and there was about 4,000 there.Lots of people signed up for this one, then maybe went to one in Perth and one in Glasgow. Edinburgh is one serious problem. I should know. Most of my family live there and some are still No voters.I was hoping to point out how serious is it if all the yes campaigners and celebrities only DO Glasgow. Some folk have taken it as a personal insult, suggesting that I’m somehow insulting Glasgow. Far from it. My late husband and family were Glaswegians. I love Glasgow. What more can I say. It still does not solve the problem of a very Unionist Edinburgh who needs turning!
Hetty,
Thanks for your opinion that FOS should ignore me. Why though? I just asked him to lay off bitching about Glasgow because we voted Yes and said that we’d all happily get behind anything that could help get more east coasters on board. Am I wrong in that? The more we fall out among each other, the less chance we have of getting independence. Am I supposed to be a troll for pointing that out? We’ve got a lot to do but whinging about different cities, different view points is not how we’ll get there. We have to come together – like I said, we’ll all help each other out but bitching about each other isn’t going to help.
@Kirsty – You are not a troll and don’t ever think that. There has always been and always will be a rivalry between Glasgow and Edinburgh and it has been amplified by the results in the ref.
tbh I wouldn’t push Edinburgh, let’s see what happens on the 31st December in our capital and how it celebrates another year in the glorious union…
Hi Kirsty!
I’m not a him. We can maybe meet at the next Wings night?
Flower of Scotland, I have no idea who “this wee girl Annie” is, and the day I ever join Facebook you can bury me. There is a fairly well-established means of publicising events (it was “Yes Local Events” but the name has changed) and I’m signed up to it…
And just as I typed that my mailbox pinged and I got an alert about “IndyScot Daily Notifications” which is the new name and it listed events it knows about. Whenever I’ve been involved in organising something I’ve made sure it was on that list. Events are regularly tweeted as well.
I didn’t see anything about an event in Edinburgh today. And if it was there and I missed it, sorry, but then again I usually pick up on other people talking about events if I’ve missed the main announcement, and nobody was talking about this one.
Are we all supposed to know by ESP whenever some “wee girl Annie” decides to organise something, and then drop everything to attend? It doesn’t work like that, you know.
@Morag
What can I say! Young folk use Facebook. I like it.
Sorry if I’ve been a bore tonight. Too many Union Jacks in Edinburgh to pass on the way home,
It stirs the devil in me!
If you like Facebook then fine, but be aware that it isn’t the entire world. Many people do not participate, and not because of some Luddite tendency, but out of genuine dislike for a number of reasons.
If someone takes a notion to organise an event and doesn’t publicise it outwith Facebook, then you can hardly blame people not on Facebook for not showing up. It’s not our duty to join up to a commercial organisation we heartily dislike just so some “wee girl Annie” doesn’t have a disappointing turnout.
You also have to consider how many are likely to come in any case. These things aren’t just dreamed up on a whim, they come together as a result of a team of people doing rather a lot of work. People have to believe it’s a serious event and that others will also turn up.
FOS, oh, LOL, please accept my apologies for assuming you were a man! I’m very sorry! I’d love to meet up with you on a Wings night out! Honestly, I look forward to it – I’ve been reading this site a lot more than I’ve been commenting and I have a lot of respect for you and your opinions. I have no doubt that we’ll have a drunken ball!
Croompenstein,
Thank you so much for that. I was only giving an opinion and didn’t mean to come across like a “troll” at all but maybe I did.
@natasha.
I drive half an hour to Ferry Toll P&R., then bus to Edinburgh. It took one and a half hours today to get to George Street.
BTW for everyone’s information there is a rally in Edinburgh on the 29th Nov. at the parliament building at 12 noon. At least 2k have signed up for that.
There is a million Mask march- a mile for Freedom 6pm at Ed. Castle 5th Nov.. That’s anonymous. They are walking down the Royal Mile. Bring food for a foodbank.
There is a Christmas rally on the 14th Dec. 1-4pm at the Scottish Parliament. These are on Facebook and I’ve signed up to them although not sure about Anonymous.
I’m thinking about going on the Anonymous one, because I chipped in for a mask!
Too many events and attendance will fall off though. It’s inevitable.
@morag
Of course you don’t have to do Facebook. It’s where a lot of stuff gets posted though. Wee Annie did not arrange thus rally on a whim. She has spent weeks on her site organising the sound system, the selling of loom bands, and monies to go to a foodbank on the day. People signed up but unfortunately there was something in Perth and Glasgow. I’m only 15 miles from Perth and although I’m on lots of sites I didn’t know about the Perth one. Hopefully the next rallies in Edinburgh will be a success! It’s nice to show the tourists that YES is still alive and well.
Well, good for her, but since nobody here seems to have heard of it I think she didn’t handle the publicity as well as she might have done. And what was the especial reason why people would want to go? I don’t even know what a “loom band” is.
Did she put it on the IndyScot listing? I’m just trying to figure out why not just me but apparently everybody else here had no idea it was happening.
@fos
nef snp had a meeting on friday night in cupar, 150 people
we have 1000 new members
i was in perth today at a rally, i agree with the comments concerning this rally, but the speeches from craig murray, veterans for indy, pete wishart etc.
i found out about both on facebook. never saw anything about edinburgh
yes north east fife have a meeting on the 23rd, check out their facebook page
RE: Edinburgh: The flag waving events are brilliant – great for morale and solidarity and show the population and politicians that we are not going away.
However, please be aware that they are not everyone’s cup of tea. Many of the more reserved older NO voters actually felt quite frightened by what they saw in the streets in the days before the referendum. It may be a generational thing, but most of those quiet, old folk who did not engage voted NO! They have to be reached in other ways.
Just saying.
Getting totally pissed of with these Labour Party officials who are now on some kind of “guilt trip”.
link to heraldscotland.com
link to heraldscotland.com
These are the same bastards who have voted NO to keep us on this Unionist merry-go-round.
Now they are trying to come up with fancy ideas to woo Labour supporters back to the fold. They want to call themselves “Labour for Scotland”. Coming up with this change of name will mean nothing, they need a complete change of policy.
If they really want to bring back Labour voters, then I would suggest that they could start by supporting full Devo-Max for Scotland. This would show that they genuinely have Scotland at the heart of their convictions.
For me, it is too little, too late and it is the actions of a Party who know they are going to get slaughtered in the up and coming GE in May.
The Scottish Labour Party won the Referendum on 18th September but they will pay a heavy price for their part in the betrayal of their fellow Scots.
SAVING THEIR OWN CUSHY JOBS
If anyone on here has not checked out The Kaiser Report on RT recently then now might be a good time to renew the acquaintance.
The bottom line is that due to eye popping debt levels particularly in the US, the UK and throughout Europe, the currencies of these three groups are on the verge of collapsing and in so doing will trigger a depression forecast to last around 25 years.
For some time during IndyRef, warnings were given that the UK in particular was walking backwards over a fiscal cliff
and that Scotland should save itself by voting for Independence.
‘No’ prevailed however, so now we await the debt bomb going off. Listening to forecasters like Max Kaiser one quickly understands that if they are right, then the already known consequences of the No vote are as NOTHING compared to what is to come.
If true, then this explains why, the political and financial elite have been amassing (euphemism) as much of the public’s money as they can get their greedy hands on. The obvious reason is to maintain the lifestyles of the rich during the forthcoming very bad and very long depression.
As one commentator described it, we are all in an plane which is earth bound out of control, and although the ‘pilot’ is doing his best, the dive is too steep and the speed too great to avoid impact.
No voters take note. Scotland had a chance to get off that plane, but the BBC and the DR kept quiet about it, and so 2 million chose to avoid any risk and so we are all on board.
Even a casual look by an untrained eye at the debt figures for the US, the UK and Europe is enough to make you think that Max Kaiser is at least telling us more truth than George Osborne is – and by a distance.
The debt ‘glacier’ might be slow moving (the more metaphors the better) but when it gets to the sea the break up can be very rapid and very spectacular. France, can you believe France?, is the latest economy to arrive at the brink and as we speak, is in the very act of toppling over into a financial abyss where it will join Greece in, guess what, abysmal economic failure.
Sunday morning ought to be a fairly relaxing time and I am not someone who would easily disturb someone’s peace. However, events are upon us. Some planes do crash on a Sunday morning.
BTW, Facebook for news – sure. But the FT, and Max Kaiser, will be a lot more reliable if you want to know when the world as we know it is about to fall into the sea.
The Labour Party in Scotland remains the real enemy of the Scottish people.Their blind panic is palpable and their final demise in Scotland will surely be a thing of outstanding beauty.
The great lyric “Tramp the dirt down” springs immediately to mind.
If they really want to bring back Labour voters, then I would suggest that they could start by supporting full Devo-Max for Scotland. This would show that they genuinely have Scotland at the heart of their convictions.
Yep, people have been telling them that for two years. The Labour party could have been in control of the evolving constitutional process, as they were when the Scottish parliament was set up. Sadly, they are just not interested in DevoMax, worse they are vehemently opposed to it. They are hard core unionists who only desire the status quo (which happens to be, currently, a weak, unstable devolution). Instead of being bold and taking the lead, they decided to get in line and do the tories’ dirty work for them.
moneyweek.com/how-to-invest-in-fracking/
As the BBC and the rest of Scottish media join forces to hoodwink the Scottish electorate as to how good Labour is for Scotland, The Labour Party itself will be studying very closely the prospects for the Fracking Industry in the UK.
NOT from the point of view of the voters, but with a view to making fortunes for the rich.
Check it out – believe me, NOTHING will be allowed to get in the way of the Fracking Industry. The Unionist parties Labour & Tory will make sure of that.
New Labour – getting better at being Tory than the Tories.
PS. On the Moneyweek website, details above, there is a presentation on the money making opportunities of shale oil & gas. A jump is made in the history of GB’s energy production from coal straight into shale gas /oil. No mention is made of Scottish Oil. It’s a Tory secret.
@Kirsty
Please stop picking on Glasgow. Glasgow did nothing to you other than vote Yes. The fact that Edinburgh and the east coast didn’t
Didn’t Dundee vote YES and it’s on the east coast
Labour Party Officials/Better Together members who voted NO, take note.
Oxford dictionary definition of a “Traitor”:
A person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle: ‘he was a ("Tractor" - Ed) to his own class’
Turn ("Tractor" - Ed):
To betray a group OR person.
Red Tories Out
Let’s start hitting those fraudsters hard now, before the BBC’s inevitable drip feed of anti-SNP news, Labour’s fake grass roots concern, and “keep the (blue) tories out” message starts to take effect over the coming months.
We need to mobilise in the strong YES areas and start hitting the Red Tories hard right now.
@ Flower of Scotland
“What more can I say. It still does not solve the problem of a very Unionist Edinburgh who needs turning!”
Fracking under Morningside or the rumour of it might help?
Morningside is actually quite a mixed area. Many tenements, still displaying Yes defiance in the windows. Many stairs were at least 50/50.
There were areas of Edinburgh that were Yes. East Edinburgh had a high Yes vote. Craigmiller was strongly Yes. Leith was strongly Yes. Edinburgh has always been a very unequal and divided city. Yes Morningside was a very active group.
Kirsty, you’re quite right hen, what do you with the capital city of Scotland which has problems being Scottish.
Edinburgh gets it all, does it deserve it? that’s the question.
On the BBC website there is an article titled “Where now for independence supporters?”. Within the article there is an extraordinary sentence.
“On 19 September, the story was quite different. The bustling streets of Glasgow, filled with “Yes” supporters for the previous week, returned to normal.
That’s September 19th when pro-Union thugs ran amok in the center of Glasgow resulting in several arrests, apparently that’s “normal”.
@ James123
I thought drunk Rangers fans being arrested in George Square was normal?
“What we haven’t had is an expression of what Scottish Labour stands for as we move through the 21st century'” Lord McConnell.
========
Relinquishing your time servers peerage might be a start, Baron McConnell of Glenscorrodale .
Just heard on the radio that Margaret Curran MP will undertake a tour of Labour Party strongholds who voted YES. Best of luck with that Maggie. It’s her Labour Party version of the Nicola Sturgeon Tour of Scotland.
I have had a look about for more details about it but no joy. If you know of dates and places please put them up on Wings. We wouldn’t want to miss out on telling Maggie what we really think of her.
PS
She used to be called Jeannie Curran, but adored Margaret Thatcher that much that she changed her name to Margaret Curran.
Unfortunately Edinburgh has a very high concentration of fee-paying schools, rugby teams, English born residents, and the usual Tory-backing groups like lawyers, bankers, and financial groups, so
in the circumstances it was a great achievement to poll such a high level of Yes votes.
Our local branches and the Yes shops we’re buzzing and enthusiastic and we all worked hard throughout the Campaign, although we are all aware we have a tough job to turn around the large numbers of hard No voters in Edinburgh.
It is disappointing that some recent posts make disparaging comments about Edinburgh’s circumstances without acknowledging that it is quite different and perhaps harder to crack than some other areas in Scotland.
We are doing our best. Honestly.
@ Fred, Need to get some cabinet meetings held in other places like Dundee, Perth, Stirling etc. Get some important Scottish Government business done out with the capital city.
@ Caz -M. It would be good to get along to some of Margaret Currans venues, as well as the Labour meeting at the Central hotel and kick up a bit of a stink!
Fireproofjim: Unfortunately Edinburgh has…
It would have been difficult for any casual observer to call Edinburgh a No vote during the campaign.
There was so much Yes activity happening in all wards, open meetings and gatherings, with hardly a No stall to be seen. That is, until the last few days when No campaigners came out with their handmade placards and posters.
As others vouch, it was simple for No voters to sit tight. They didn’t need to canvass. I suspect what you say is correct, so many enjoyed the society of other No voters they did not believe anybody in Edinburgh would vote yes.
But the Yes activity I saw deserves applause.
Just heard Jose Barroso on the Andrew Marr show (just not paying for BBC licence) where he said there is nothing to fear from TTIP. Translated that is be very very worried indeed.
@Johnny says: 18 October, 2014 at 10:25 pm@
“This is put across in various ways, but think it would also be useful to put across to people that there isn’t much point in piling Labour votes high in Scotland in an effort to keep the Tories out.”
Here’s a point that seems to be missed while commenting on the Westminster voting campaigns in Scotland. We get the old tired and daft slogan from Labour, “Vote Labour to keep the Tories out”. It has never panned out that way but gives the even dafter one that the SNP were responsible for “letting Thatcher in”.
We also get the Tory mantra, “Vote Tory to keep Labour out”,. So now we have 82,017 SNP members, several thousand more Greens, SSP and Labour for Indy there is need for a slogan to cancel the others out : –
“VOTE INDEPENDENCE AND KEEP THE UNIONISTS OUT”
Now we know brave YES stalwarts worked hard in NO districts ; we all recognise that but …
Dont get fixated by Edinburgh like moths to bright light. They had their chance to be a Capital city for Christ sake.
So they have their needs and fears of lossess like banking / big business the Fest’
Good luck to them – too much time and energy wasted on rallies into the coffers of Edinburgh for me.
Better wise up NO voting Scotland; your either with us ao against’ its that simple.
Aberdeen ?
Edinburgh ?
Stirling ?
Borders ?
Dumfries / Galloway ?
Western Isles ???
Shetland ?
Orkney ? (Shameful)
Comes back to simplicity – if you are for Britain you are against Scotland and political emancipation of the citizens.
YES must consolidate from true support in the real heartlands; and break out from the West and YES voting districts where we succeded.
Dundee / Glasgow / North Lanark / West Dumbarton & Inverclyde.
Jim Hood MP – even if ppl was going to better off under independence ”I’d still vote NO”
cos I’m alright Jack.
link to youtube.com
Fireproofjim
At the end of the day we are one constituency. If we squeeze out an extra Yes vote in every street no matter where it is it helps.
Anyone taking donations for the Scottish Labour Action for Voluntary Vittels Emergency Rations Services (SLAVVERS) for the 30th?
I for one have some beautifully ripe hens fruit which would go down a treat with Skeletor.
In seriousness though, anyone collecting for the foodbank, can you let me know if there’s somewhere I can have some stuff delivered for it? (overseas working just now)
@ James123
Not the only extraordinary sentence in that BBC article.
link to bbc.co.uk
I note that the authors have rounded down 1.6m voters to ‘hundreds of thousands’ using the BBC’s Magic Calculator.
@gerry parker
maybe we could get the guy with the mobile pa system in the rickshaw to play slab members some light musical relief as they arrive at the Central hotel!
link to youtube.com
Schrodinger’s Cat: maybe we could get the guy with the mobile pa system in the rickshaw.
His chasing the Labour party up Buchanan Street has to rank as one of the all-time classic highlights of the campaign, Schrodinger. One for the history books.
caz-m
Are there any Labour strongholds for Curran to visit on a nationwide tour? I expect all the meetings to be ticket only and everyone fully vetted before admission.
O/T FFS Multimillionair Paul Lister wanting to reintroduce Wolves on the Alladale Estate in Sutherland. Scottish government should bring forward Land Reform & stop these Absentee Landlords.
@BigSteveChisholm
@James123
The BBC are going to continue to be against democracy and on the Imperial side, along with SLab, for the foreseeable future, alas.
SLab we can decimate in May 2015, with a little effort.
The BBC is going to take longer to get their jotters. A few legal actions to reduce their bias over debates, could help in the meantime.
Bugger (the Panda) says:
@ Flower of Scotland
“What more can I say. It still does not solve the problem of a very Unionist Edinburgh who needs turning!”
Fracking under Morningside or the rumour of it might help?
designing the leaflets as we speak, btw, the threat of fracking should be enough
link to archive.today
@gb
mine too, and tariq azis’s
we should crowd fund this guy to follow slab about in scotland anytime they take to the streets
the beauty of the stunt was they couldnt get away from him
reminded me of ian gray trying to leg it from central station.
slab mps thought it was mildly amusing at the start of the march, but by the time they got half way up buchannan street, they were fuming lol
Schrodinger’s Cat: the beauty of the stunt was they couldnt get away from him
Aye. I smile every time I think of the moment. I take my hat off to him. Whoever he is, many thanks.
WGD latest
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Reading the Sunday Herald, the quotes from McCleish and McConnell give the impression just some change of policy and rearranging n Labour will bring voters back.
McCleish talking about being the most reluctant No voter is sickening. it shows the Party not people was most important.
The excuse that Westminster shaped the approach of Labour here clearly highlights that it will always be that way. They betrayed people for politics.
Schrodinger’s Cat: Fracking under Morningside or the rumour of it might help?
The land under the tenements and big hooses in Morningside is riven with underground burns, many a property afflicted by subsidence because of the many streams that run in both directions, from Churchill down, and Braid Hills down.
Alert readers, have some fun today putting your own figures or opinion poll figures into this parliamentary seat calculator.
How badly will LD do; is Labour finished; what % vote will it take to get SNP into 30 of the 59 Scotland seats at WM? Remember it’s FPTP so be prepared for surprises.
Scotland calculator here: link to electoralcalculus.co.uk
@ Square Haggis.
Aye, that comment at the end from Ian, giving a link to details of Gordon Browns charitable company says it all about Labour.
Hell scud it in tae them.
@The Rough Bounds says: 18 October, 2014 at 11:04 pm:
“It needed leadership and it needs direction like a lot of these Yes meetings. Here’s hoping the SNP takes cognisance of what’s going on throughout the country.”
First of all, The Rough Bounds”, The SNP the government of Scotland, secondly they are a political party and thirdly they are dealing with a great rise in membership and they, like most others, rather tired after fighting a campaign. Cut them a bit of slack while they regroup and have a brief rest.
The fact is something wonderful has happened that certainly has never occurred in Scotland, at least since the Treaty of Union. A real self generating grass-roots movement began that transcends party politics. It encompasses several political parties but also includes many who are loyal to no particular party. It has a life of its own and owes nothing to any particular party. Thus it is not just an SNP problem as to how things go.
We, The Rough Bounds, are that movement and we are the ones who need to organize ourselves and, in fact we are doing so. There are indeed links to sites that publish facts, figures, articles and events. The obvious solution is for we, in the grass-roots movement, to use the links that publicize meetings, rallies, marches & events.
@The Rough Bounds says: 18 October, 2014 at 11:04 pm:
“It needed leadership and it needs direction like a lot of these Yes meetings. Here’s hoping the SNP takes cognisance of what’s going on throughout the country.”
First of all, The Rough Bounds”, The SNP the government of Scotland, secondly they are a political party and thirdly they are dealing with a great rise in membership and they, like most others, rather tired after fighting a campaign. Cut them a bit of slack while they regroup and have a brief rest.
The fact is something wonderful has happened that certainly has never occurred in Scotland, at least since the Treaty of Union. A real self generating grass-roots movement began that transcends party politics. It encompasses several political parties but also includes many who are loyal to no particular party. It has a life of its own and owes nothing to any particular party. Thus it is not just an SNP problem as to how things go.
We, The Rough Bounds, are that movement and we are the ones who need to organize ourselves and, in fact we are doing so. There are indeed links to sites that publish facts, figures, articles and events. The obvious solution is for we, in the grass-roots movement, to use the links that publicize meetings, rallies, marches & events.
link to indyscot.info
link to indyscot.info
@gb
i think this is the beauty of a grass roots campaign, that sort of individual freedom of expression would have been stifled had it been a top down organisation, indeed top down organisation would never even have thought of such a thing
I now know who to blame for the £80 fine for not registering to vote. From the Daily Heil way back in April 2012 we have:
link to archive.today
I have no idea where the Cyrillic script at the top of page came from. It wasn’t on the original DM page.
As was demonstrated in the referendum the present format Labour Party are the enemies of Scotland and its people and deserve a really good hiding at the UK GE on May 2015.
However their chums at the BBC and newspaper media will do everything they can to ensure Labour retain their majority of Scots MP’s at Westminster.
You can see them at it already as they re-write history and wave their air-brushes to try and fool Scots voters yet again into voting Labour at the UK GE.
Gordoz,
Your comments regarding no voting areas are just daft. I live in Edinburgh, and it is not how you seem to imagine things. Plenty of YES voters in Edinburgh, just not enough of them.
Meanwhile, in the real world, the debate is moving on, I see Labour are now trumpeting how they wish to engage with their Labour ‘supporters’ who voted YES in the referendum.
Margaret Curran doing a ten stop ‘tour’. Haha you couldn’t make this stuff up. Clearly Margaret Curran can see her gravy train ride at taxpayers expense might soon come to an end.
Quote from Margaret Curran of british Labour talking about millionaire Ed Miliband, who just voted for the new war in Iraq;
“We have a leader across the UK who has learned the lessons of Iraq and opposed military action in Syria, who refuses to kowtow to vested interests like the banks and the energy companies and who believes that politics is about building a movement of working people to change our country.”
Truly Laugh out loud funny, from british Labour who just spent near on two whole years, asking Scots to vote for staying under London Tory rule.
The hypocrisy of Labour troughers, like Margaret Curran of british Labour, knows no bounds. They’ll say ANYTHING to keep their noses in Westminster’s trough;
link to archive.today
That random Cyrillic script is helpfully translated by Google as
“All want a new car?
But are afraid that you can not afford it ? Cost of ownership. Reviews . shares”
Simply bizarre.
I don’t think Mcleish was the only reluctant No voter and we should bear that in mind. We only needed 200,000 to switch sides to win that vote but we were fighting against extreme propaganda from all sides. What is incredible is that 1.6m said stuff your dear and disaster stories.
The way politics unfolds over the next few years will have a key impact on we can improve on 2014. Demographic changes and more right wing hooliganism on society will work in our favour. We need to reach out to the reluctant Noes and convince them that this is not only the best option but also the safest. Diehard Britnats will never change and we shouldn’t expect them to.
Grouse Beater says:
19 October, 2014 at 10:22 am
It would have been difficult for any casual observer to call Edinburgh a No vote during the campaign.
There was so much Yes activity happening in all wards, open meetings and gatherings, with hardly a No stall to be seen. That is, until the last few days when No campaigners came out with their handmade placards and posters.
As others vouch, it was simple for No voters to sit tight. They didn’t need to canvass. I suspect what you say is correct, so many enjoyed the society of other No voters they did not believe anybody in Edinburgh would vote yes.
____________________________________________________________
Why didn’t i see this before?
What’s that old saying – can’t see the wood for the trees?
It was so bloody obvious i didn’t see it and allowed myself to build a false sense of security – pre referendum – and allowed myself to be fooled by what i could see.
Although i still have very strong suspicions over the ref result i believe we just have to accept it, unless we uncover some sort of big scandal, and get on with our pursuit of Independence. Don’t get me wrong, we still need to be investigating and dealing with any, and all, irregularities.
Back to my point – what you are pointing out in your post is exactly what was being repeated all around the country, while Yessers were all driven to get their message out there the no-joes didn’t have to because their message was being pumped into every house in the country, 24/7, and although we were all aware of this at the time i don’t think anyone stopped to consider this and we allowed ourselves, i know i did, to fall into the trap of thinking we were going to win.
Everywhere i went, pre referendum, i was convinced by what i seen, ie – a relatively severe lack of ‘No’ activity, that we were heading for the most momentous day in our history and that thinking, little did i realise, was setting me up for a very hard fall. It made defeat so much harder to take, never mind accept.
We can’t afford to make that mistake again, at ANY referendum or election.
(btw, i don’t think anyone is questioning the efforts of ANYONE in the movement, whether they’re from East, West, North or South. I think we are all extremely proud of what we achieved against the relentless onslaught of a rancidly corrupt media)
😉
The only way to combat the lies and misdirection of SLAB is to have an agile “truth” organisation that can provide a rapid response to any dodgy leaflet, doorstep and media claims they make.
Remember the Dunfermline election where they continually claimed SNP enacted policies as their own and also that they would keep schools open. Wonder how that worked for them. Oh aye, they won the seat.
Not sure we have enough people able to react with appropriate media and doorstepping to combat that level of propaganda.
Ronnie 10.59,
He’s been banging on about it for over a decade as the ‘natural’ way to cull deer.
Somewhat overlooking the fact that if they are securely fenced on Allandale they can only kill the ones fenced with them and if they roam freely they are hardly likely to run down deer when there are nice fluffy, slow-moving sheep all over the place.
If Labour MPs are using the Central Hotel in Glasgow for a gathering, it will be so they can come off the London train and have an police escort for the few hundred meters inside the station, directly into the back door of the Hotel. Cars can also be driven to the Hotel back door inside the station.
They will not be seen outside the station. The public will not get near them.
The slogan, “Labour, the Party of the people”, seems a bit empty on this occasion.
@ Jim.
That’s exactly what Wings is. Stuart does the debunking, but it is up to us to get this to as wide an audience as we can.. Talk to people, write to the small regional newspapers, write to the national newspapers if you like, but spread the word on their lies.
@ronnie anderson 10.59
Hang on a minute ronnie. Many environentalists would welcome the reintroduction of the wolf and the lynx into Scotland. Deer have no natural predators and their numbers escalate destroying vegetation and trees over vast swathes of Scotland. This is done for the profit of large land owners and the detriment of the environment (and us).
It’s a whole new area for for Independence supporters.
Much of Europe has already reintroduced these animals,or never extinguished them in the first place. Unfortunately, our Scottish Wild Cat is now on the brink of extinction thanks to gamekeepers’ practices on large estates. Eagles, Goshawks and Red Kite ditto.
link to monbiot.com
Capella I second what you are saying about the return of our wolves and lynx among others and protection which has failed for things which have already been introduced. Like Birds of Prey. My Husband has always said that landlords should feel the full weight of the law if anything is found poisoned on their land. Too easy for the Gamekeeper to get the blame, they are following orders and in places where jobs are scarce that is likely to happen.
Let me put this point. Labour are not finished yet. There is still some way to go. The latest ploy ,in which they will be assisted by the powerful media, is to use the inspiration of Halloween, and give themselves a change of clothes in order to appear at the doors of the electorate in disguise offering to dance or sing anything which the potential benefactor at the door would like in order to reward them with their vote. I used to love going out for Halloween as the rewards were substantial,but I was always brought back down to earth when my mother demanded I get off the make up and clothes and act normally.. Scottish Labour will find out that Mr Milliband is Mummy, and on certain issues will be inflexible. We cant have a left wing Labour Party in Scotland, and a centre right Labour Party in England. Reminds me of a verse “O what a tangled web etc”.
Ian Bell in the Sunday Herald feels both Labour and Tories have painted themselves into a corner. I think most see things that way, no great insight there.
They promised nothing but allowed it to be interpreted as Devo-Max though Labour only meant to keep hold of Scotland and the Tories to deliver English votes for English laws.
His thesis is, Tories are delivering more Yes votes next time around without realising what they do. Yes voters should wait content knowing the politics are going their way.
With 45% voting Yes, and many a ditherer among the 55%, he has a point.
@Gerry
I do understand that Gerry, what I’m concerned about are the LOCAL lies and fabrications and being able to generate, for example, fliers in enough quantity and looking professional so that they don’t end up straight in the bin.
That takes funding (as we all know) and I’d like to think that our stamina is still up there to enable that to be in place at short notice.
Stoker: We can’t afford to make that mistake again, at ANY referendum or election.
You bet. (See Ian Bells article in today’s Sunday Herald for a boost to self-esteem and hope.)
cearc
I think the idea is that they control the deer on the estate because he has planted over 800,000 native Scottish trees and wants to ensure that they survive. As the estate is fenced I don’t think he faces too many opponents from other estates and farms. It is the ramblers that object most…either because of the fence or because of the wold assisted rapid ramble*….not sure which 🙂
*wolves don’t chase people.
Gerry parker
We should contact our local Labour MP and ask if they would have any details on the Margaret Curran Tour. Explaining that you would be very keen on attending one her meetings.
I also emailed Douglas Alexander on Friday asking him for a copy of the signed “VOW” by the three party leaders.
And I have asked him to explain what exactly are Labour offering the Scottish people in their promise of “extensive new powers” that was made to us just before the 18th of September.
Good news, Stewart Hosie saying they would like to see an election strategy for next year, and see a Yes alliance, that’s surely good news
BTW, freedom for wolves and lynx! The wolves will eat the deer that are ravaging the countryside in huge numbers, at least within the decline of Allendale.
Can we not get the wolves to eat No voters? ONLY KIDDING!!! 🙂
Not only the Sunday Herald but the Sunday Mail giving Labour a kicking (and the Sunday Sun as well).
Marvelous article in Sunday Mail by Owen Thomas.
Has anybody got access to the Gerry Hassan article last year in which he suggested that the Labour party paid up membership was actually only about 6,000? Will be less now and in fact I don’t believe it exists in any significant sense now except through elected members,folk with vested interest in them, diminishing trade union connection and the media.
@Gerry
just to continue the theme of “debunking”, how difficult would it be to find out where SLAB are campaigning and tack on to the end of their doorstepping to ask the occupier(s) what was said and then try to offer an alternative view straight away?
That way you find out immediately what the devious bar stewards are up to. (apologies to genuine bar stewards btw)
@ Caz M. Did the same to Tom Clarke re the vow using http://www.writetothem.com
I asked if I could have a copy for my mother in law (a staunch unionist)
That way the letter is logged and followed up on.
His initial reply said ” I’m afraid I don’t have a copy of the Vow”
to which I retorted.
” I didn’t ask you if you had a copy, I asked if you could get me a copy.
No reply as yet.
Will e mail him to see if I can get any details, for my unionist supporting mother in law of course, who would love to hear Margaret’s words of wisdom.
🙂
Valerie: The wolves will eat the deer that are ravaging the countryside in huge numbers…
Not a patch on what Westminster rule, landed aristocracy and posh Jocks have done to our countryside. (They eat deer too.)
Can we not get the wolves to eat No voters? ONLY KIDDING!!! 🙂
The Britnat ones are very bitter and unpalatable 😉
@Capella,
Thank you for the link, a good read.
This paragraph in particular stood out for me and it could be applied to almost anything.
“Rewilding is a rare example of positive environmentalism, in which campaigners articulate what they are for rather than only what they are against. You cannot sustain a movement only by responding to the moves of your opponents. One of the reasons why the enthusiasm for rewilding is spreading so quickly here is that it helps to create a more inspiring vision than the usual green promise: “follow us and the world will be slightly less crap than it would otherwise have been.”
Jim Thomson on the Subject of the election of Cara Hilton (spit, one week after her election, and this was a woman who actually admitted to the Electorate before her election that she “forgot” she had voted to close the two schools in Dunfermline. We had people out in the High Street with a petition. I often walk down Aberdour road where one of the Schools is, Pitcorthie, they have a banner up asking people to save their school. Well seems that there is not a lot of joined up thinking just like the Referendum.
Sorry to go o/t But doesn’t Lamont look tired !
I think that she needs a rest but I really do hope she stays till after the G.E .There wont be a Labour party in Scotland for her to run any further into the ground by that time.
@ Jim.
I agree that we need to get the campaign to operate on a local basis. Don’t know about following the bar stewards about.
I’ve organised a wee letter writing group to keep the pressure on the MP’s MSP’s and councillors, and hope to start a more robust campaign in the run up to the election 2015.
letters to local newspapers can be good in getting the message across to people who would not otherwise get the message. I found this the other day.
link to snp.org
used this and e mailed the Stranraer and Wigtown free press regarding the upgrade to the A14 in England being supported through general taxation(i.e some of our tax contributions) while the A75 and A77 ( Roads being devolved matters) would be funded entirely from the Scottish block grant.
So, we help pay for theirs, and they don’t help pay for hours.
Also, the devastation of the country by huge landed estates is important for urban areas too. Where did the population of Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh come from if not largely displaced highlanders obliged to migrate to the cities to find work once they no longer had access to the land. Here’s a clip from Trainspotting which shows the vast barren landscape created after the clearances for grouse moors and deer forest. Anyone on this site eat grouse and venison? Because that’s the food that vast areas of Scotland produces. It’s not a natural landscape but man made.
link to youtube.com
@Grousebeater, totally agree, a lot of posh boys using the beautiful countryside. It’s one of the reasons I thought the govt. Would capitulate on a currency union – a lot of vested interests in the large estates, south of the Border. I think Cameron’s wife’s family have interests in an estate? One of those things I think I read somewhere.
I was a Munro bagger in my younger days, and always feel a tension in trying to recognise you need investment, but wanting to also maintain the natural balance and freedom of access. Having said that I abhor guns, and can’t really understand game shooting, so nailing my colours in view of your name!
@Flower of Scotland there is a site which posts all up and coming indy events and anyone is invited to post their event up.
link to indyscot.info
@bigpolmont – I think Jola looks permanently stressed, as well she must be. No sympathy from me however, she is a square peg in a round hole, and should never have been promoted beyond her limits by her party.
Haha @ Trainspotting! It sucks to be us
caz-m says:
If Labour MPs are using the Central Hotel in Glasgow for a gathering, it will be so they can come off the London train and have an police escort for the few hundred meters inside the station, directly into the back door of the Hotel. Cars can also be driven to the Hotel back door inside the station.
They will not be seen outside the station. The public will not get near them.
thats a shame catz, however, the man with the rickshaw would have been useful cycling infront of slab in the photo above
while im at it, the march by these trade unions is a blatent attempt to re-invent slab, i know of no trade unionist who voted yes who would have allowed lamont etall to march in front of them
who are stuc women?? why no mention of these people
Grouse Beater says:
19 October, 2014 at 11:59 am
(See Ian Bells article in today’s Sunday Herald for a boost to self-esteem and hope.)
______________________________________________________________
Nah, pass, i’ll stick to Wings for that.
;
Darren Carnegie still occupying George Square,Glasgow—-against the scandalous/unacceptable levels of poverty in Scotland’s biggest city in the 21st century. This is in one of the richest countries in the world!
Go along and have a wee chat with him and a bit of encouragement.
Thanks
FILM from last night’s interview:–
link to new.livestream.com
It would appear that this country has now reached the last chapter of Animal Farm.
Labour is now wearing the Tory attire, eating the same food and educating its’ offspring at the schools and universites favoured by the ruling classes and by doing these things has abandoned its’ electorate.
Perhaps the Central Hotel will do doggy bags then the Labour party can make a contribution to the needy in Glasgow.
(Boxer)
@valerie
I could not agree with you more an all points but while Labour are so stupid as to have her as their leader they are destroying themselves. Every speech she makes, every time she has a photo op with a tory, everytime she tries to put down the SNP, Alex Salmond or Nicola, She is driving a wedge between the Scottish people and the labour party.
Long may she continue to run labour.The reference to her looking tired was not looking for sympathy for her. I honestly hope that she rots in hell for all the bad the has done. In Dr Who the Doctor destroyed a prime ministers career by asking the question doesn’t she look tired?
the press jumped on it and every time they interviewed her they asked about her health and the pressure of that drove her from office.
@Jim Thomson 12.29
Thanks for the link to that Daily Mail article. It’s interesting that Nick Clegg and the Liberals were pushing for a fine for failing to register knowing that it would hit young people and poor people. Even the Tories balked at it but must have since changed their mind and Labour Councils are enthusiastically applying it.
A one party state with 3 right wings!
Here’s the link again if you missed it.
link to archive.today
Bob Mack says:
19 October, 2014 at 11:54 am
Let me put this point. Labour are not finished yet. There is still some way to go. The latest ploy ,in which they will be assisted by the powerful media, is to use the inspiration of Halloween, and give themselves a change of clothes in order to appear at the doors of the electorate in disguise offering to dance or sing anything which the potential benefactor at the door would like in order to reward them with their vote. I used to love going out for Halloween as the rewards were substantial,but I was always brought back down to earth when my mother demanded I get off the make up and clothes and act normally.. Scottish Labour will find out that Mr Milliband is Mummy, and on certain issues will be inflexible. We cant have a left wing Labour Party in Scotland, and a centre right Labour Party in England. Reminds me of a verse “O what a tangled web etc”.
_________________________________________________________
Brilliant, Bob.
Can i just add – we must not be fooled by any of this “grassroots” bullshit which now seems to be emanating from certain quarters. This is the Red Tories latest ploy to deceive the working classes and poor of Scotland.
They are already planning, way ahead, on how to help save their union at any future elections or referendum. Take note, folks – They’ve just shown their hand.
Do these cretins really think we’re all that gullible?
At the end of the day, it matters not what the Red Tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s tell us, because they will always do what their wealthy masters in London tell them.
Stoker @ 1.14
“Do these cretins really think we’re all that gullible?”
They know that “we” are well on to them and have been for a long time, but they also know that there are still plenty of idiots out there who will or at least might fall for it.
o/t just occurred to me I’ve never seen a union flag being burned, filmed uploaded onto you tube or whatever.
A legitimate expression of healthy contempt and disgust for the “union” or something that could damage the Independence cause?
@bigpolmont, I do like Dr Who, but missed that reference! Yes, long may Jola continue to hasten the demise of Labour, and provide the low benchmark this party has set themselves.
One thing I still see on FB is a lot of whinging about this party sorting themselves out, and I feel embarrassed for those people mumping on, and hankering after the old values, they need to sort their head out, and move on and away
Jack Murphy, well said young Darren Carnegie camping out in George Square and his campaign to feed the hungry, very heartening that Scotland still produces young folk of his calibre. I believe Darren wanted to say a few words at the demo in the square the other week but was denied, why?
Historical Note! Over the kids right shoulder is the statue of Oswald, Glasgow’s MP after the reform act, top hat in hand. Cunninghame Graham & Joseph Conrad were lifted by the polis one night after a few haufs, when they were caught seeing how many wee stanes they could chuck into the top hat.
Anent this “wolves” business on Alladale estate, it’s a farce, this laird can’t deny access to the public and in any case fallen trees, snowdrifts & river crossings will make this fence anything but wolfproof. Alladale is too small for such an experiment and his neighbours who use their estates for playing cowboys & indians with the deer are reluctant to sell him any more.
Scotland is just too wee for wolves, they can travel eighty miles in a day and an escapee could be in George Square with young Darren in three days.
These big estates need breaking up not enlarging, the stalking could be taken over by the locals, as already happens in some areas. The most endangered species is people, traditional shepherds on sporting estates are becoming a rarity as sheep compete with the deer. We eat sheep, we need sheep, and trees can’t be grown in the Highlands without fences, reducing livestock to a level where trees grow unhindered means the uncropped vegetation creates a mass of dead stuff & a tinderbox situation which can burn for miles.
Some of you lot need to get a grip.
Over the past few days the anger aimed at Edinburgh is just a wee bit over the top. Most of Scotland voted NO , not just Edinburgh. #
Where the fuck was the rest with Dundee a yes city only having a turnout of over 70% Glasgow not much better.
I come from Edinburgh and am getting the impression some on here want to scapegoat somewhere for their ire.
Bollocks to you . Edinburgh has many YES voters and they made themselves heard. You think Edinburgh lost the vote ?????
A quarter of the two YES city’s didn’t turn up. They might have made a difference.
Stop the Edinburgh blame game or you will find your doing the enemy’s job for them. Two years trying my best for the YES campaign and now i see my city getting shit on Wings.Who the fuck do you think you are ????
Leave my city alone with your shitty comments.
@ Bob Mack, 11:54am
Let me put this point. Labour are not finished yet. There is still some way to go. The latest ploy ,in which they will be assisted by the powerful media,…
So right; Labour in Scotland, just like the Daily Record, are not yet down and out. Membership/reader numbers may have stagnated or fallen, but, we shouldn’t become complacent about how they could turn things around. When thinking of the new members in the indy parties, most of those have voted Yes anyway. Labour will promise anything, say they are turning their right wing policies inside out if they feel threatened. They will claim again that they introduced beneficial policies in Scotland even if they voted against them in the Scottish Parliament.
Readership of DR is still around 222,000 (I think) and that can be added to all those other tabloids (Sun has around 238,000) plus the smaller broadsheets and tv/radio. We still have a mountain to climb and we have to be careful that we don’t push votes back to Tory as well (could happen).
@ handandshrimp
Despite there being some reluctant No voters, it is no excuse for the likes of Henry McLeish. I thought his behaviour was disgraceful. He dithered about, even said something along the lines that people should think very carefully before voting no and he knew full well that the unionists parties were lying and scaremongering. Same with McConnell.
I can only imagine that, like the rest of Labour in Scotland, they imagine there might be some personal benefit to be had for backing the union, ergo the Tories and their ultra right wing policies, and damaging Scotland.
Labour will turn in which ever direction they need to save their own sorry skins.
Yesguy@ 3.03pm
As a North Lanarkshire resident and a Glasgow voter (it’s complicated)
Restassured I have not come across any ill will towards Our capital.
Everything I am hearing points towards the MSM and Labour,I agree 100 % we must not play the divide and rule game.
For what it is worth I will always support you in this.
@ liz g
Lenzie?
Liz G.
Many thanks xx.
Letting off a wee bit steam. I thought we were all past the blame game. I guess like most here , i still hurt a little.
Going by the chatter amongst mates , many strong Labour or some with no interest , the fallout over the failings of new powers is changing many. I know this area has many SNP members and they are rising everyday.
People is speak to want to go forward. Plan , organise and prepare for the spring. With Xmas coming folk have much to do but they seem determined to get cracking in spring. Xmas is a mad time for most and politics can wait a few weeks. God knows we all deserve a break.
Even the novices realise this is a long game. And it’s heartening that so many want to help Scotlands lot. Folk are still talking .
In the meantime Edinburgh will host the million mask rally. That should be some site and put any doubters to rest.
I hope to see many Wingers there. Your a good crowd.
Bigger the Panda @4.28pm
No hun Chryston
Uddingston born
Bellshill educated
Currently in sunny Abronhill
No one is having a go at YES activists, supporters or individuals anywhere just facing facts.
@Robert Louis – precisely my point so I leave it to others for a view on who’s taking a precious daft point of view.
Wasting effort on a city more focused on prosperity and ProudScotism than becoming a true European Capital is indefensible on any level.
The main success is from Central Scotland / West and Dundee or do you know something we’ve all missed.
Too much time is wasted on Edinburgh and ancient history.
Glasgow and Dundee are where its at so lets keep the focus.
Maybe Edinburgh will come around in time (sincerely hope so) until then we must move on.
iz g says:
19 October, 2014 at 4:13 pm
Yesguy@ 3.03pm
Restassured I have not come across any ill will towards Our capital.
____________________________________________________________
NO, AND NEITHER HAVE I.
All this negativity was started by a very over-the-top rant from ‘Flower of Scotland’ – a rant which was both unnecessary and insulting to most of us. Despite certain facts being made clear, however, certain individuals seem hell-bent on keeping it going.
YesGuy, can i suggest that if you have a problem with certain individuals who you claim to be playing the “Edinburgh Blame Game”, that you address these individuals and aim your anger at them. It does not help your case when you let rip with that machine gun approach.
I don’t come from anywhere near Edinburgh but i, like most in the Yes movement, find it deeply insulting when someone tries to drag me into some sort of fake unionist divide-and-rule game because, just like most in the Yes movement, i tend to be a wee bit protective towards my fellow Scot’s, whichever part of Scotland they hail from.
I may of missed it, but i seen nobody blaming Edinburgh.
If i had i would have put them straight, as would most on here.
Your anger, and FoS’, may be justified but please point it in the right direction and try avoiding the machine gun approach.
😉
Folks,
We are all still hurting from the result, and when we hurt, we sometimes lash out at worst, have shortness of temper at best.
There’s no point in turning on each other over who’s city voted the most, the least, who’s got the nicest statues, the best chippy. Leave the infighting for the T.O.O.L.S – they truly have problems. Let’s not get down to their level.
The difference between the typical YES voter and the typical NO voter is simply that the YES voter was mobilised, active, involved – positive. The typical NO voter was more reclusive and pretty much inactive. It makes sense that having lost, we are more passionate and passion can quickly lead to unrest – as is evident above.
Apologies to Flower of Scotland, but I did have concerns over Trollism to begin with, but I do believe she’s simply a little more openly passionate that others (and perhaps had a couple of fresh oranges last night).
We need to focus on what has been achieved so far, what the end game is and how we are going to achieve it. Infighting will not help – so please count to 10, pull your neck in, think of Norah Batty’s stockings and have patience with those who do not. It is what will make the difference for us.
Just a thought re the Edinburgh connection , what if yessers were to buy up all the hogmanay tickets for their big bash , a sea of yes in the city that said no , would be fab , it is shown all over the world .
Now that is a thought…and what a thought…what a message.
A message beamed around the world from our capital city.
“The Scottish Independence Movement is alive and kicking”
(((HAPPY NEW YEAR)))
🙂
There were two Scotland’s last month. Those who had the dream and the vision of a better country, and those who didn’t. Dreams are contagious, and ours was spreading, but it was prevented from making it far enough before the day itself.
It’s not about Glasgow or Edinburgh or which region voted Yes or No. All cities and regions contained some people with the dream and some people who didn’t have the dream.
The way forward isn’t to bad-mouth and alienate the people who didn’t dream as we did, but to infect them with the same dream, so that we go forward to the future as one.
I don’t actually like O’Shaughnessey’s poem much, but I can’t get this part out of my head at the moment.
They had no vision amazing
Of the goodly house they are raising;
They had no divine foreshowing
Of the land to which they are going:
But on one man’s soul it hath broken,
A light that doth not depart;
And his look, or a word he hath spoken,
Wrought flame in another man’s heart.
And therefore to-day is thrilling
With a past day’s late fulfilling;
And the multitudes are enlisted
In the faith that their fathers resisted,
And, scorning the dream of to-morrow,
Are bringing to pass, as they may,
In the world, for its joy or its sorrow,
The dream that was scorned yesterday.
I don’t know if anyone has posted this as I haven’t read all the comments above soz. Anyway something to get your teeth into if you need a gathering in Edin. Wingers could all get together after. I can’t make it but could be epic night oot 🙂
Edinburgh Nov 5, Million Mask March, March for freedom. link to indyscot.info
I’ve got a mask on order and I think I’ll try to go. The start is a bit early for me as I work out of town, and if it’s bucketing with rain then I might chicken out. But it’s in the diary.
@PARKPUB2 says: 19 October, 2014 at 8:12 pm:
Just a thought re the Edinburgh connection , what if yessers were to buy up all the hogmanay tickets for their big bash , a sea of yes in the city that said no , would be fab , it is shown all over the world .
Obviously many here seem unaware of the Edinburgh demographics. There are many long term non-Scots in areas of Edinburgh. The various university, and colleges for a start. If you spoke Scots in some areas they think you are a foreigner.
I honestly kid you not. I lived in Edinburgh almost all of my time in education but having come from a farming background I can speak and write in real Lallans, Scottish Standard English and English. While many in the city speak Scottish Standard English few now spak wir ain Lallans leid and English accents are far more common.
This is a true tale – My late wife and I were on the Royal Mile and standing looking at a shop that had a display of all sorts of owls, including a couple of real live ones. We were chatting among ourselves about the, “Hoolets”, and a wee girl was watching and listening to us. She tugged on her mother’s skirt and said, “Mummy, that lady and man are calling those owls, “Houlets”. Mummy said, quite loudly, “Be quite child, they’re foreigners”.
Tooohooo Trooohooo! 🙂
Fred.
I just came across the Labour website where Slab membership forms are free, but everywhere else has to pay. They’re also still fighting for the “Union”. link to shop.labour.org.uk
Emegra,
Didn’t Dundee vote YES and it’s on the east coast
Is that what you took from my posts? That I’d somehow slighted Dundee? Really?! Seriously? God help us all.