Quoted for truth #12
Posted on
April 10, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
The Daily Record, 5th May 2010:
“Before Margaret Thatcher, Scotland made steel, ships, cars and trucks and produced coal. By the time she had finished with our country, all those industries were devastated – and tens of thousands of proud men and their families were living in ravaged communities with no jobs and no hope.
Scotland could wake up tomorrow to the grim reality of a new Tory government, led by Thatcher disciple David Cameron. And for all his talk of “compassion”, few doubt that we will suffer again if he wins power. We spoke to five men who lost their livelihoods under the Tories, and they all had the same message for the voters: “Don’t let them loose on Scotland again.”“
Well, voting Labour didn’t work. What else could we try?
Hmmm! One of the hard ones.
Oh I’ve got it…..Nope, try again.
To me the whole point of devolution was to act as a firewall, in the event of a tory victory we would never completely helpless. But with labour hell bennt on being more tory that the tories, the only way to be sure now is to vote for indy.
I don’t want these tories passing wind in scotland let alone passing policy.
@James Morton.
Is tory policy a polite expression for toly policy?
Wind is bad enough but more substantial passings are not good.
Hail Alba
Daily Record in top defence of the Union form today as it calls the outing of Vitol for its past actions as, and I Quote:
“A non-party political site which supports an independent Scotland – has seized on a number of major oil deals negotiated by Vitol in a bid to undermine the Tory moneyman.”
That would be the freelly available published accounts of money paid to Serbian War Criminals, UK Tax avoidance through EBT’s, Sanctions busting activites in Iraq and Iran and dodgy UK backed Libyan Oil deals to supply rebel fighters with oil.
Nope… its just “oil deals”
@Robert Kerr
A-ha I see what you did there 🙂 Well Tory is a four letter word
BBC Scotland lunchtime news, the correspondent said that he would expect that most Scottish Labour MPs would stay away from the Thatcher debate this afternoon, though wee doogie was interviewed earlier and was rarin to go.
The chap failed to mention if Scottish MPs of the other parties were likely to stay away, just the Labour ones.
As a Lanarkshire lad I was brought up witnessing the decimation of communities by the steel plant closures. The Calder went, Gartcosh went, The Dalziel went and the “Big One” which was ravenscraig.
These closures were catastrophic for Lanarkshire as a whole and the legacy of that still lives on today.
Luckily at the time my old man was in the Imperial works in Airdrie which was finishing pipe for the North Sea oil fields. They were still affected by redundancies though.
Only the Clydesdale plant in Mossend survives to this day with their main customer still being the North sea oil companies. As long as we are pumping oil out of Scottish waters it will remain.
A lot has been said about the miners in Yorkshire this week but please spare a thought for the Lanarkshire steelmen who were also ruthlessly culled by Thatcher.
My political compass as a youth was my old man who was a Labour voter.
Labour were the only hope people like him had at the time. Alas it was all in vain. As one man, my dad had as much power to stop the tory tide as the entire Labour party. This sadly continues to this day and will forever more as “New” Labour woo the middle England electorate.
Fortunately now as a grown man with kids of my own I can see that there is a better choice.
It’s not about who’s got more money than who or who has the biggest army. It’s about my kids being handed back their own future. It’s about them plotting their own course rather than being held in a straight jacket.
The older generation will most likely see no change at all, however, our kids will shape the country and drive it on freed from the shackles of a Westminster parliament dictating their course.
What better legacy can we leave our children than handing them full control of their future? No politician could ever leave such a precious gift.
I will vote Yes in 2014 for that reason.
I have just realised I read years ago about plans for Margaret Thatchers funeral and since you dont put a ceremonial funeral together in a week means that it must have been planned and approved during the Blair / Brown government so no point in the labour mps pretending outrage now.
What’s happened to National Collective? Has their site been closed down?
link to nationalcollective.com
Bunter
Wee Doogie is after his Ermine. That’s what counts for Wee Doogie and he’ll do anything to achieve it. If he’s going to the Thatcher lovefest that’s a relatively minor crime compared to selling Scotland down the river!
Rabb. That was a really nice piece. Exactly how I feel, viewing from close exile.
rabb Well said ‘ I now work very near to the old ravenscraig site and when you drive through Motherwell and Wishaw you can still see the legacy of the steel plant closures .
Interesting developments. Of course the answer is Independence. The cause can be further enhanced , after her burial, with a national debate upon the political legacy of Thatcher.
This will confirm that her legacy is alive and well within the policies of the tories/labour/libdems.
Therefore, the question should be, how to eradicate modern day Thatcherism?
@Bunter
“The chap failed to mention if Scottish MPs of the other parties were likely to stay away, just the Labour ones”
Yes, I watched lunchtime Reporting Scotland, too. Why no mention of the Scottish government`s representation (or not) at Thatcher`s funeral?
Would it be that BBC Reporting Scotland are trying to make Labour look more anti-Tory than the Scottish government?
Ah, but…Better together, eh?
Yes Rev, echoing LeeMacD any idea what’s going on at NationalCollective ” Not For Publication”?
Rabb
I hope you don’t mind, I’ve reposted your comment on yesmoray.com.
It is personal stories like this that resonate with the YES campaign.
National collective been taken down??
The double standards that the REv highlights for us each day shows the monumental uphill task we face.
None of the MSM or BBC will change their attitude any day soon.
We have to think of some way to “fight back”
PS what has happened to National Collective ,let us hope a server fault and not a hacking job by the evil lot of unionism
It looks like the lawyers have been onto National Collective and closed them down.
@LeeMacD
@bernamine
Might have something to do with this from the Daily Record;
“Vitol said allegations made about them this week were inaccurate and they were taking legal advice.”
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Hope not.
According to their FB page it was Vitol??
O/T if not Qouted for truth 13#
The Westminster TINA debate due to start at at 2:30pm is on the BeeB (News 24 Channel for sure).
I hope that it will be as combative as she, but think buffed-up first, then frit from shadows will be the order of the day.
80 MP’s have tabled requests to speak.
According to their FB page it was Vitol??
—
Considering that the article was well sourced I cannot see why Vitol would or even could do this. Surely this action would also surely apply to the articles they sourced from Guardian, Mirror, Reuters etc and they are all still there.
@Rab
I also grew up in Lanarkshire. I remember the excitement when the council took down all the street lighting cables along Uddingston Main Street. This was to facilitate Pickford’s lorries carrying the huge propellers for the QE2 from Ravenscraig to the Clyde Shipyard (pre M74). I think the move was done at a weekend because I remember watching with my dad. A proud moment for Lanarkshire. What are the chances of that ever happening again?
Re. Vitoil – Lets just hope they haven’t sent a couple of Serbian heavies around.
Proclaimers ‘Letter to America’, great song of a sad story … Scotland’s story of the 1980s and of our greatest export, people.
Aucheorn says:
10 April, 2013 at 2:25 pm
Rabb
I hope you don’t mind, I’ve reposted your comment on yesmoray.com.
It is personal stories like this that resonate with the YES campaign.
No problem at all.
@ Rabb,
I meant to post a comment yesterday giving praise to your sentiments given in your comment. I didn’t get around to it at the time – but wish to say now that it was extremely good. More power to you sir – you write plenty of good stuff, please keep it up.
“Proclaimers ‘Letter to America’, great song of a sad story … Scotland’s story of the 1980s and of our greatest export, people.”
Its ‘Letter from America’, but yes it is a great song. Its not just about the 1980s – its also about the Highland clearances and draws a parallel between them and the economic problems of the 1980s.
Well said Angus Robertson in parliament today. Short, sweet and straight to the point.!
Yes you’re correct, I got distracted when I wrote it in haste. As for the Highland Clearances part, that was what my ‘exporting people’ comment was about but didn’t have time to expand on it.
I’m with rabb and for all the same reasons. My family worked in rail, coal mining and engineering. The devastation in the 80s was awful to watch. Families and communities split and laid waste dole queues getting longer by the week and the more we voted against the tories the longer they stayed in power. Turns out the defiance vote for Labour didn’t work.
Who knew?
So what was that you said about trying something different Rev?
O/T: The National Collective site does indeed appear to have been closed in response to an injunction by Vitol. Their twitter activity has also ceased. Their FB page is still active although no formal announcement made.
The focus of the injunction appears to be on their published article entitled “Dirty Money: The Tory Millionaire Bankrolling Better Together”.
For those who missed it the cached article is here: link to tinyurl.com
May the Streisand effect begin…
The Man in the Jar says:
10 April, 2013 at 2:47 pm
@Rab
I also grew up in Lanarkshire. I remember the excitement when the council took down all the street lighting cables along Uddingston Main Street. This was to facilitate Pickford’s lorries carrying the huge propellers for the QE2 from Ravenscraig to the Clyde Shipyard (pre M74). I think the move was done at a weekend because I remember watching with my dad. A proud moment for Lanarkshire. What are the chances of that ever happening again?
It was a proud county indeed.
How ironic that much of the iron used in the construction of “The Iron Lady” (as the eiffel tower was known in France) came from Lanarkshire.
The industry was then put to it’s death by a very different “Iron Lady”.
One of the saddest sights I have ever seen was the 3 cooling towers and the gas tank in Ravenscraig raised to the ground. It left a lump in my throat.
It was the last sigh of the dying heavy industry in Lanarkshire.
I am under no illusion though that it was super efficient and highly profitable.
It had it’s problems without a doubt, however, with the right investment it could have continued to supply the world with quality steel.
Unfortunately it was broken up and sold to the highest bidder. It saddens me still to this day to think about the technology and technical information sold off around the world and then used against us to kill off what we had left as they mass produced cheap steel.
Thatcher’s short term strategy was nothing short of stupidity.
The tory mantra since has been to sell off what it can for short term gain. It now has very little left to sell other than the NHS which they are now tackling with great gusto!
Labour have reversed none of it in it’s 13 years in power. New Labour really are just tories now.
I for one will not be fooled into a No vote in 2014
Norswarrior and other aka’s are known by that apt word “dissemblers”.a perfect description
To me it is simple cheating.Say what you believe is acceptable but silly mind games are a foul!
@Rab
Also one of the seven wonders of the modern world The Forth Rail Bridge was built in the East End of Glasgow with Lanarkshire steel and some from Wales. The factory was sited between London Rd. and Dalmarnoc Road. Apparently large sections were assembled at the factory and checked before dismantling and delivery to the Forth.
A bit before our time 😉 But illustrates how long the heavy industries lasted before “The Blessed Margaret” came to power.
“Norswarrior and other aka’s are known by that apt word “dissemblers”.a perfect description. To me it is simple cheating”
Rather than repeating myself again I’ll refer you to what the Rev said on this earlier, on the ‘George Square Thatcher Death Party’ thread, specifically:
“Any more allegations like this (not just about Norsewarrior but about anyone else, unless supported with evidence) will be deleted with extreme prejudice, on the grounds that they’re far more disruptive than the thing they’re complaining about.”
Of course if you have any evidence that I’m ‘dissembling’ as you call it, then by all means provide it. Otherwise, as the Rev requests, please refrain from disrupting the thread or you’ll presumably have your posts deleted.
Famous15
For your own personal bemusement, and without seeking any response or engagement, Loki is a Norse warrior name, possibly derived from the root ‘leug’, meaning ‘to break up’ and in mythology, was the name of a god of mischief, disruption and contriver of all fraud.
Ended up being tied by entrails to a rock if I’m not mistaken.
I’m only saying, like.
I was born and brought up in a village near Wishaw. My mother’s family is all from Motherwell. The older generation were mostly retired before the axe came down, but one cousin was unemployed for many many years and blamed the stress of that for the prostate cancer that eventually killed him.
In the 1987 general election the Conservative candidate for Motherwell and Wishaw was none other than John Bercow, the present Speaker. He put out a blue leaflet promising the earth, and in particular promising that “Ravenscraig is now profitable and there is no question of it being closed down.”
Bloody liar.
rabb I was so moved by your piece I almost cried,
in the early eighties I was one the people who got on their bike as Norman Tebbit suggested and worked away from home for a months at a time and returned for a couple of days a month all through my kids childhood,
and when I came home from a month working in London (amongst many other places) during the property boom I would approach motherwell on my way up the a74 and see the ravenscraig towers and know I was home, to this day I cant think of that sight without welling up,
and as I write this I cant believe how emotional I have become
Rabb,
the saddest memory I have is of the regular skirmishes between flying pickets and the steel workers at the gates to Ravenscraig, when the trucks of coal were being delivered. I used to see them from the top of the 201 on my way to school, as the police stopped the traffic in order that the coal truck convoys did not slow down and so could not be stopped by the pickets.
We were told that the steel workers had no choice, as the internal skin of the furnace walls had to always be kept above a certain temp or they would collapse. The rail and miner unions refused to supply the steel industry after their decision to carry on working and so the die was cast on an all or nothing battle between previously inter dependent industries.
I was young, and to this day don’t know the truth of the propaganda that flew around. Motherwell was Steel, so that’s probably just our story. The only truth I really know was the fact that formerly closely tied and respected industrial workers were turned violently against one another to their own mutual destruction. Some sooner than others.
And worst of all, is the cancerous knowledge that their own various leadership’s failings were instrumental in Thatcherism’s plan to bring about the devastation of the Industries and communities that supposedly represented.
Thatcher got a clean run, through the exploitation of the blatantly undemocratic and out of date leadership systems, political in fighting and personal hubris of the individual leadership’s of the Labour movement, developed over years and years of Union and Labour party dominance.
That same hubris is still there even after decades of impotence in the face of right wing policies enforced from outwith our Country. That same breed of ‘Labour Movement Leadership’ still pathetically insists that they are the only bulwark against ‘Tory’ policies. They knew it then and we can now see the truth.
For decades they have had sole control of Scotland’s only real National weapon of self defence, the electorates loud and consistent democratic rejection of Westminster’s crude right wing social vandalism. They have refused to wield it, let alone wield it effectively for so long that most of my parent’s generation and some of my own now doubt that it is even a weapon at all.
Scottish Labour’s only reason for existence in the last 30 years, apart from personal advancement of it’s leadership, has been to control that weapon and so render it useless. They have been so effective at this over the decades that even their own leadership and that of all the Westminster Party elites have begun to share my parents generation’s view, that it is not a weapon at all and show absolutely no fear in the face of it.
Well, Labour lost control of it in 2007 and on the 18th of September 2014 we will all see just how devastating a weapon our democratic voice of descent and hope is against the unjust, rotting and hollow Political State that is today’s UK of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Vote Yes in 2014 (please)
Bloody hell!
Sorry for the length of that last rant/post. (ridneckedsmiley)
Please don’t apologise.
Braco,
Excellent post, although I hope you meant ‘dissent’ rather than ‘descent’!
Thanks Morag.
Rabb’s cooling towers moment set me off and before I knew it I had posted a pamphlet!
Ron,
I posted it and then got such a fright at the length that I knee jerk posted an embarrassed apology after it, which then stopped me from editing the original post , oops.
john king says:
10 April, 2013 at 5:34 pm
rabb I was so moved by your piece I almost cried,
in the early eighties I was one the people who got on their bike as Norman Tebbit suggested and worked away from home for a months at a time and returned for a couple of days a month all through my kids childhood,
and when I came home from a month working in London (amongst many other places) during the property boom I would approach motherwell on my way up the a74 and see the ravenscraig towers and know I was home, to this day I cant think of that sight without welling up,
and as I write this I cant believe how emotional I have become
John,
Trust me, I was welling up as I wrote it.
I was a boy at the time but I remember Norman Tebbit’s “Get on yer bike” debacle.
One sad memory of that was seeing my best mate at the time in tears because his dad had to go and work away. His dad had to take it to an extreme though. He didn’t get on a bike, he got on a plane, to Osaka, Japan to be precise.
He quite litteraly flew over there to a Japanese steel mill to be milked of his knowledge. Once they got what they needed he was duly sent packing back to Scotland. My recollection was that it was a shamefull and disgusting act by Thatcher’s tories.
We as a family almost ended up in Wales as a result. Thankfully the Imperial works were sold to the French who strangely made it profitable again and my dad kept his job at the 11th hour.
My only hope that is that the people of Lanarkshire haven’t forgotten this and have the good sense to do the right thing next year.
They have the opportunity to wipe the slate clean and end Thatcher’s legacy once and for all.
My old man has now seen the light and will be voting Yes next year 🙂
@Rab
@Morag
@Braco
Motherwell famous for Coal n` Steel
Hamilton famous for Steel n` Coal!
Local joke apologise to non Lanarkshireians
Braco,
I think you are correct about the furnaces. My old man also said shutting “The Craig” down was not an option. They had to keep it running which meant they couldn’t all strike.
Am I correct in saying that Yule & Dodds were crucified for delivering the coal?
On a slightly different note. I remember that whenever we were coming home from holidays etc up the 74; when we glimpsed the orange glow in the sky my old man said it was the furnaces in the craig lighting up the night sky 🙂
@Rab
Yes it was Yull & Dodds
I remember one of their lorries with the wire mesh over the windscreen couping over at Bothwell Bridge roundabout. (Oh how we laughed!) They were “noticed” by all the other haulage companies. I think that they went bust and resurfaced under a different name.
@Rab
I remember coming home on leave from the army up the M74. I remember the sky glowing orange. Now it is only the Shields Road flats. Something else to thank Labour for?
I’ve got a stranger memory. I started secondary school in Glasgow in 1965, and travelled from Wishaw to Glasgow every day by train. The fast trains went straight from Wishaw to Motherwell, but there were slow ones that trailed round by Holytown.
I was a creature of habit, and for some reason always sat at a window at the north side of the carriage. I noticed, on the Holytown branch, what I called the “red fields” – fields where the grass and the hedge seemed to be covered in red dust, and no animals ever grazed there. I saw this time and time again and for some reason never looked out the other window to see why they were like that.
Then one day I did, and got the shock of my life. The railway line formed the boundary between Ravenscraig and the adjoining “countryside”. The other window was all cooling towers and furnaces and slag heaps. I literally had no idea!
I remember in winter, when it would be dark during my journey (both ways, when we had that bloody horrible “British Standard Time” experiment), the white-hot glow of a river of slag being poured from wagons on to a heap. Amazing sight.
All gone now. One of my cousins, a very serious amateur photographer (chemistry teacher to trade) got the job of photographing the gradual decay of the abandoned site, and nature beginning to reassert itself. He had an exhibition.
link to scottish-photographers.com
link to streetlevelphotoworks.org
Rabb, Man in the jar and Morag,
Our cousins from LA came to stay with us on holiday in the early 80’s. (LA to Motherwell on holiday, Poor Buggers!) Any way, a couple of days into their stay they came tearing into my mum and dad’s bedroom, screaming that the Nuclear war had started!
They were really petrified, but it was just the night sky lighting up bright red with the furnaces being opened. Oh how we laughed at the stupid Yanks, but putting it in context now it doesn’t seem quite so silly. Not silly at all in fact. (gulp)
I used to work in Paisley Thread Mills along with a couple of thousand other people.
Nothing exists of the Mills anymore.
Roberstons’s Jam used to be made in Paisley. Gone.
There used to be a wee shipyard in Paisley that made fishing boats etc. It was a good bit from the river and when the boats were finished they were taken by lorry to the river side to be launched. It was the only one of its kind in the British Isles and we were very proud of it.
Gone.
MacDonald’s Penguin biscuits used to be made in Hillington Industrial estate. The women who worked there were allowed to take some biscuits home and they used to hand them out to the kids.
Gone.
My dad used to work in Rolls Royce and my brother used to work for Kelvin Hughes.
Both factories have gone.
I worked for a company that designed flooring for the ships that were built on the Clyde.
Gone.
Anyone else remember the volume of noise that used to come from the Clydeside ships’ whisltes and hooters at midnight on Hogmanay?
Gone.
It’s bloody criminal what they’ve done to our country. I look forward to the day when the Act of Union between Scotland and England is also…’gone’.
Yea, Paisley is another good example of the ruination of Scottish manufacturing by Thatcher.
I can accept that she had her ideals and certainly imposed them on the country with great vigour.
What I can NEVER accept is that Labour done absolutely nothing in it’s 13 year tenure to reverse this. The so called party of the people carried on in the same vein.
I only wish the good people of Scotland would wake up to the fact that Labour is not the answer for them. Labour are now so intertwined with the tories it really is difficult to tell them apart.
As Margaret Thatcher once said when asked what her greatest acheivement was she replied “Tony Blair”.
Says it all for me really!
I look forward to the day I can vote Labour again in an Independent Scotland 🙂