The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Positive-case-for-the-Union update #13

Posted on February 16, 2012 by

9 to “Positive-case-for-the-Union update #13”

  1. steven luby says:

    I have no doubt we shall hear how important a role Scotland has played throughout the history of the United Kingdom. Good,it's about time a primeminister was honest.
    But,would'nt it be sweeter to here that Scotland has won Independence and can begin by re-writing the histories of Scotland with truth,with the beginning's of it's own history once again taking it's own place in this world!!! 

    Reply
  2. redcliffe62 says:

    I think there is a positive case to be made that the workers locally at Faslane are better off, as they have a guaranteeed income for the maintenance on nuclear weaponry, and jobs can be guaranteed with future wars if led from London.
    I think it explains why Baillie bucked the trend and increased her majority in 2011.
    People will vote for who they perceive wil make them personally better off. Giving every person a share in an oil fund, their own bank account with future monies in it which they can get when they are older, a form of oil superannuation, would be worthwhile and hard to ignore. If the fund is for government and not individuals then people will be suspicious as things change over time.
    Even if it is only 6000 per person after the 9% UK debt is repaid whilst RUK debt continues to increase..
    However, there is almost no positive case on a Scottish macro level that I can see, or that has been explained for a post 2014 scenario.
    With regard Rangers, if the English FA allowed Rangers to join the English League at say League 1 level they would grab it now, not the EPL or nothing view they held until recently.
    I suspect that would benefit the Union as Cameron pushes his Team GB philosophy. A gesture of goodwill to write off the tax money would have rangers fawning towards London even more than today.
    I am sure the pressure can be brought to bear politically, for as we know, Rangers stands for a lot more than football and remains a bastion of collective Unionism where little exists elsewhere.
     

    Reply
  3. tom says:

    Heard a brief preview on Today programme. Safer together because we have the fifth(?) biggest defence budget in world; stronger together because of seat on Security Council; wealthier together as the sixth largest economy in the world. Well… nobody feels wealthy except City bandits, and the first two are prime reasons to leave the union!

    Reply
  4. Morag says:

    "We" are stronger, safer, richer together.
     
    Who's "we", Dave?

    Reply
  5. I think it was reported that Brazil overtook us for 6th place at the back end of last year Dave really needs to keep up. That was after Moore went on his wee trip there so it wasn't too succesful like many other things that seems to have been brushed under the rug At least AS has always something positive to report from his trips abroad

    Reply
  6. Angus McLellan says:

    @redcliffe62: Nobody should believe that everyone would be better off in the event of independence. Omelettes and eggs. But if you compare what the UK, and by extension Scotland, spent on defence and keeping folks at Faslane in a job with what was spent in – for example – New Zealand, the numbers are scary.
    In 2010 it looks like there were about 6,000 less people – military and civilian – employed by the New Zealand Defence Force than by the MoD in Scotland (approx 14K vs 20K). So there's the downside.
    On the upside, over the period from 1997 to 2010, investing the difference between NZ defence spending and notional Scottish defence spending and allowing for 1% real growth would have produced an "oil fund" of 40 billion (2009) US dollars. And continuing that trend to 2016 would produce a fund value of nearly 65 billion dollars and of over 80 billion by 2020. So pretty soon you'd be talking about real money.
     
    To govern is to choose, as some long-dead French guy said. So, if it were up to you, which of these choices – 6000 defence jobs or a large oil fund – would you make?

    Reply
  7. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    He has worries about the NHS
     
    Is that your NHS, which you are doing your best to kill, our ours, which is not the same and we are doing our damndest to save and improve, Dave?

    Reply
  8. Shodan says:

    Having heard the positive case that was up to 300 years in the making I have come to the conclusion that Dave is actually a SNP sleeper cell agent. He's worth a hundred SNP members to the independence cause.
     
    If that drivel was the best they can come up with from all their writers, think tanks, spin doctors and researchers after all their promises it is not going to cause anyone in the "yes" camp to lose sleep.
     
    The big question for me is if RevStu is now going to update his clock counter or does this miserable effort fail to count as a real case at all?

    Reply
  9. redcliffe62 says:

    As per above;
    I agree Angus, I simply make the point that there are aspects which would support the status quo for personal gain, which is understandable.
    For most people they will be better off if Scotland was independent.
    We need to see both sides of the story and cut our cloth accordingly. Even state that some jobs may be lost at Faslane but elsewhere many more will be made and there is good and bad in every decision. That would stop the scare story on this matter.
    London trying to say spending billions on nuclear weaponry is a good thing so it is a key aspect.

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)

    Stats: 6,760 Posts, 1,218,076 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Hatey McHateface on Just a couple more shots: ““a difficult choice going for a piss” Nah. Piece of piss. A smear test is the real biggie.May 20, 21:06
    • diabloandco on Just a couple more shots: “Agent x thank you for that erudite observation.May 20, 20:33
    • Scot Finlayson on Just a couple more shots: “The uni educated middle class white woke virtue signaler , after destroying thousands of lives,will move on to some other,…May 20, 20:31
    • Bilbo on Just a couple more shots: “The idea that the Trans issue would disappear after the Supreme court ruling seems to be unfounded. There is a…May 20, 20:21
    • agent x on Just a couple more shots: “Gender Fluid A person who is gender fluid may always feel like a mix of the two traditional genders but…May 20, 19:59
    • Hatey McHateface on Just a couple more shots: “I see Ash Regan is all over the MSM today, although for reasons unknown, nobody has seen fit to mention…May 20, 19:52
    • agent x on The Ace Attorney: “The following commissioners were appointed to negotiate the Treaty of Union: Kingdom of Scotland James Ogilvy, 1st Earl of Seafield,…May 20, 19:42
    • Hatey McHateface on The Ace Attorney: ““Technically we are NOT IN A UNION! It’s an ILLEGAL piece of flummery that none of us should even be…May 20, 19:42
    • Mia on The Ace Attorney: ““How does the Union of the Crowns 1603 fit into this?” There never was “a union of crowns”. The two…May 20, 18:39
    • Dunx on The Ace Attorney: “The Act Of Union With England was passed in the Scottish Parliament by 110 votes against 67. Thus ratifying the…May 20, 18:34
    • Skip_NC on Just a couple more shots: “Twenty-four genders? The very idea is quite absurd. I believe the true figure is about 8 billion. Of course, most…May 20, 18:27
    • Mia on The Ace Attorney: ““The treaty was ratified by the Scottish Parliament when it passed The Union With England Act in 1707” That is…May 20, 18:16
    • Lorn on Just a couple more shots: “She seems to be incapable of putting 2 and 2 together not make 4. If you allow someone to change…May 20, 18:09
    • twathater on Just a couple more shots: “I wouldn’t celebrate too soon, irrespective of what a SPOKESPERSON says the snp deviants and perverts are still there in…May 20, 18:01
    • katielass42 on The Ace Attorney: “Didn’t you read Mia’s comments? It doesn’t matter how ANY party concentrates on ANYTHING! It’s NOT ABOUT NUMBERS OR REFS!…May 20, 17:03
    • Lorn on Just a couple more shots: “Frank: that was one of its main struts: the destruction of families. Post structuralist, post modern new Marxism. Once you…May 20, 16:52
    • Mark Beggan on Just a couple more shots: “Kirsty Blackman sniffs glue.May 20, 16:50
    • Lorn on Just a couple more shots: “100%: it’s not over by a long chalk. If it is not utterly routed, it will follow us into independence.May 20, 16:43
    • Aidan on Just a couple more shots: “By “poking the bear” you mean being a successful liberal democracy with a growing economy having transformed itself over the…May 20, 16:43
    • Mark Beggan on Just a couple more shots: “They are on their way out granted. The extreme Lefty Gravy train now needs to be dismantled. We know who…May 20, 16:35
    • Kuttykit on Just a couple more shots: “Well live here from PCS Conference in Brighton. This union conference is being stopped from going ahead by a cohort…May 20, 16:01
    • Hatey McHateface on Just a couple more shots: “Mind and tell us about the Gen O’Cide sometime. Rev Stu is against people “wanking on and on” but I…May 20, 15:47
    • Kirkgate on The Ace Attorney: “How does the Union of the Crowns 1603 fit into this?May 20, 15:41
    • Frank Gillougley on Just a couple more shots: “Nevertheless, one cost of the trans ideological mass indoctrination that to my knowledge has never really been mentioned is the…May 20, 15:01
    • Ken on Just a couple more shots: “Right! Now that’s sorted, can we do the census properly next time?May 20, 14:39
    • 100%Yes on Just a couple more shots: “Stew, I stated that the Tans carry on was dead buried and that would now seem to be the case,…May 20, 14:17
    • Captain Caveman on The Ace Attorney: ““I will let you work that out” So basically you have nowt. Imagine my surprise. (It was, of course, a…May 20, 14:14
    • Xaracen on The Ace Attorney: “The presumption that England’s size automatically gives it legitimate authority over Scotland on a supposed ‘democratic’ basis is just that;…May 20, 14:08
    • duncanio on Just a couple more shots: “The gender ideologues are retreating and will soon be on their way back to Transillyvania.May 20, 14:08
    • Stuart MacKay on Just a couple more shots: “Keep an eye on what’s happening in the USA. There’s talk in certain Democratic factions of doubling down on Woke…May 20, 14:04
  • A tall tale



↑ Top