The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Positive-case-for-the-Union update #13

Posted on February 16, 2012 by

9 to “Positive-case-for-the-Union update #13”

  1. steven luby says:

    I have no doubt we shall hear how important a role Scotland has played throughout the history of the United Kingdom. Good,it's about time a primeminister was honest.
    But,would'nt it be sweeter to here that Scotland has won Independence and can begin by re-writing the histories of Scotland with truth,with the beginning's of it's own history once again taking it's own place in this world!!! 

    Reply
  2. redcliffe62 says:

    I think there is a positive case to be made that the workers locally at Faslane are better off, as they have a guaranteeed income for the maintenance on nuclear weaponry, and jobs can be guaranteed with future wars if led from London.
    I think it explains why Baillie bucked the trend and increased her majority in 2011.
    People will vote for who they perceive wil make them personally better off. Giving every person a share in an oil fund, their own bank account with future monies in it which they can get when they are older, a form of oil superannuation, would be worthwhile and hard to ignore. If the fund is for government and not individuals then people will be suspicious as things change over time.
    Even if it is only 6000 per person after the 9% UK debt is repaid whilst RUK debt continues to increase..
    However, there is almost no positive case on a Scottish macro level that I can see, or that has been explained for a post 2014 scenario.
    With regard Rangers, if the English FA allowed Rangers to join the English League at say League 1 level they would grab it now, not the EPL or nothing view they held until recently.
    I suspect that would benefit the Union as Cameron pushes his Team GB philosophy. A gesture of goodwill to write off the tax money would have rangers fawning towards London even more than today.
    I am sure the pressure can be brought to bear politically, for as we know, Rangers stands for a lot more than football and remains a bastion of collective Unionism where little exists elsewhere.
     

    Reply
  3. tom says:

    Heard a brief preview on Today programme. Safer together because we have the fifth(?) biggest defence budget in world; stronger together because of seat on Security Council; wealthier together as the sixth largest economy in the world. Well… nobody feels wealthy except City bandits, and the first two are prime reasons to leave the union!

    Reply
  4. Morag says:

    "We" are stronger, safer, richer together.
     
    Who's "we", Dave?

    Reply
  5. I think it was reported that Brazil overtook us for 6th place at the back end of last year Dave really needs to keep up. That was after Moore went on his wee trip there so it wasn't too succesful like many other things that seems to have been brushed under the rug At least AS has always something positive to report from his trips abroad

    Reply
  6. Angus McLellan says:

    @redcliffe62: Nobody should believe that everyone would be better off in the event of independence. Omelettes and eggs. But if you compare what the UK, and by extension Scotland, spent on defence and keeping folks at Faslane in a job with what was spent in – for example – New Zealand, the numbers are scary.
    In 2010 it looks like there were about 6,000 less people – military and civilian – employed by the New Zealand Defence Force than by the MoD in Scotland (approx 14K vs 20K). So there's the downside.
    On the upside, over the period from 1997 to 2010, investing the difference between NZ defence spending and notional Scottish defence spending and allowing for 1% real growth would have produced an "oil fund" of 40 billion (2009) US dollars. And continuing that trend to 2016 would produce a fund value of nearly 65 billion dollars and of over 80 billion by 2020. So pretty soon you'd be talking about real money.
     
    To govern is to choose, as some long-dead French guy said. So, if it were up to you, which of these choices – 6000 defence jobs or a large oil fund – would you make?

    Reply
  7. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    He has worries about the NHS
     
    Is that your NHS, which you are doing your best to kill, our ours, which is not the same and we are doing our damndest to save and improve, Dave?

    Reply
  8. Shodan says:

    Having heard the positive case that was up to 300 years in the making I have come to the conclusion that Dave is actually a SNP sleeper cell agent. He's worth a hundred SNP members to the independence cause.
     
    If that drivel was the best they can come up with from all their writers, think tanks, spin doctors and researchers after all their promises it is not going to cause anyone in the "yes" camp to lose sleep.
     
    The big question for me is if RevStu is now going to update his clock counter or does this miserable effort fail to count as a real case at all?

    Reply
  9. redcliffe62 says:

    As per above;
    I agree Angus, I simply make the point that there are aspects which would support the status quo for personal gain, which is understandable.
    For most people they will be better off if Scotland was independent.
    We need to see both sides of the story and cut our cloth accordingly. Even state that some jobs may be lost at Faslane but elsewhere many more will be made and there is good and bad in every decision. That would stop the scare story on this matter.
    London trying to say spending billions on nuclear weaponry is a good thing so it is a key aspect.

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,894 Posts, 1,239,370 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Young Lochinvar on Not So Octopus: “AE @ 9.03 Yippee Kate-ae faggat! You done gotten yourself all written up like a Jack rabbit n spring thar…Apr 11, 15:25
    • Jamie on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “This might be the first AI convenor.Apr 11, 14:13
    • Geri on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “He who does the counting, does the manipulation.Apr 11, 13:46
    • Kevin Cargill on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “You might need to build an interoceter to communicate with Metaluna where I’m sure Mr Westwood lives. He certainly seems…Apr 11, 13:44
    • Geri on Not So Octopus: ““Being offered an opportunity but exercising discretion to turn it down does not make you a “failure”.” It does show…Apr 11, 13:44
    • Alf Baird on Not So Octopus: ““the vast majority of “ordinary” Scots” If all else fails the colonizer seeks to make the indigenous native a minority…Apr 11, 13:41
    • Knuckle Heid on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “I agree Iain – who are these polling companies talking to?!Apr 11, 13:13
    • Geri on Not So Octopus: “Arsey, I don’t need to. A well respected KC has already given his expert, legal opinion. Go look it up.…Apr 11, 12:42
    • Northcode on Not So Octopus: ““…no constructive engagement of any sort, just the blanket unreasoning assertion that anyone who disagrees with you is… a unionist.”…Apr 11, 12:23
    • Lorncal on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “They’ve posted a photo now, have they? It still looks doctored and seems to be an image that has been…Apr 11, 12:22
    • Geri on Not So Octopus: “Alf, I know. Whit a dunce! Maybe we should all club together & buy him a dictionary? Oh hang on,…Apr 11, 12:19
    • James on Not So Octopus: “We see you, Yoon.Apr 11, 12:09
    • Aidan on Not So Octopus: “@Geri – if you believe that your absurd and paranoid ramblings are shared by a majourity of people, or even…Apr 11, 12:06
    • Captain Caveman on Not So Octopus: ““Why are the Unionists here so intolerably kiss-ass to the site host?” Well, I daresay it’s all relative. Basic courtesies…Apr 11, 12:01
    • Captain Caveman on Not So Octopus: “Good grief… Well, I very much doubt that an articulate, intelligent and interesting poster like Lorncal will take this, ahem,…Apr 11, 11:57
    • agentx on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “It sounds like a clear breach of his disability rights in that they have failed to make reasonable adjustments to…Apr 11, 11:41
    • Alf Baird on Not So Octopus: “The colonialist tells the natives they’re not colonized. LoL.Apr 11, 11:20
    • Geri on Not So Octopus: “You don’t speak for the majority of Scots, thank fck, so why don’t you pack up yer wee violin. Only…Apr 11, 11:00
    • willie on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “As we move towards an election voters might do well to reflect on how this Scottish Government have made provision…Apr 11, 10:39
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on Not So Octopus: “Salmond bequeathed us a sparkling oasis. Sturgeon left us a foetid swamp. Swinney is key-holder of the toxic taphouse.Apr 11, 10:27
    • James Che on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “AI generated or father and son?Apr 11, 10:17
    • James Che on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “These English registered politicians encouraging perversion sitting in Scotland would be outed if Scots recognised that they are not in…Apr 11, 10:14
    • James Che on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “The pedo nest preying like vultures on innocent humans are like an alien species, In day past politicians would have…Apr 11, 10:00
    • Alf Baird on Not So Octopus: ““Why is the name in English and not Scots?” Alliance tae Leeberate Scotland Pairty. Thair, sortit!Apr 11, 09:20
    • Andy Ellis on Not So Octopus: “@YL 2.04am Same old same old from you and the usual suspects then YL? No no actual ideas, no constructive…Apr 11, 09:03
    • Aidan on Not So Octopus: “Why doesn’t Sarah start a fundraiser to have this abusive nut job “James” sent to North Rona for three months?…Apr 11, 08:54
    • Iain More on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “On matters of belief – I dont belie the latest Opinion Poll giving the SNP 67 seats and the Greens…Apr 11, 06:13
    • Young Lochinvar on Not So Octopus: “Why are the Unionists here so intolerably kiss-ass to the site host? Yeah yeah they’ll dissemble and talk boll0x but…Apr 11, 02:04
    • Young Lochinvar on Not So Octopus: “Wilma Flintstone.. I.e. failed Reform candidate (yup folks- a failed Reform candidate 🙂 🙂 🙂 ) Yeah! I know, hilarious…Apr 11, 00:51
    • Young Lochinvar on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Beggars “Your” Not “Our” Are you another Cotswold based Right wing paid spammer? Looks like it.. (Old boy)..Apr 11, 00:37
  • A tall tale



↑ Top