The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Positive-case-for-the-Union update #13

Posted on February 16, 2012 by

9 to “Positive-case-for-the-Union update #13”

  1. steven luby says:

    I have no doubt we shall hear how important a role Scotland has played throughout the history of the United Kingdom. Good,it's about time a primeminister was honest.
    But,would'nt it be sweeter to here that Scotland has won Independence and can begin by re-writing the histories of Scotland with truth,with the beginning's of it's own history once again taking it's own place in this world!!! 

    Reply
  2. redcliffe62 says:

    I think there is a positive case to be made that the workers locally at Faslane are better off, as they have a guaranteeed income for the maintenance on nuclear weaponry, and jobs can be guaranteed with future wars if led from London.
    I think it explains why Baillie bucked the trend and increased her majority in 2011.
    People will vote for who they perceive wil make them personally better off. Giving every person a share in an oil fund, their own bank account with future monies in it which they can get when they are older, a form of oil superannuation, would be worthwhile and hard to ignore. If the fund is for government and not individuals then people will be suspicious as things change over time.
    Even if it is only 6000 per person after the 9% UK debt is repaid whilst RUK debt continues to increase..
    However, there is almost no positive case on a Scottish macro level that I can see, or that has been explained for a post 2014 scenario.
    With regard Rangers, if the English FA allowed Rangers to join the English League at say League 1 level they would grab it now, not the EPL or nothing view they held until recently.
    I suspect that would benefit the Union as Cameron pushes his Team GB philosophy. A gesture of goodwill to write off the tax money would have rangers fawning towards London even more than today.
    I am sure the pressure can be brought to bear politically, for as we know, Rangers stands for a lot more than football and remains a bastion of collective Unionism where little exists elsewhere.
     

    Reply
  3. tom says:

    Heard a brief preview on Today programme. Safer together because we have the fifth(?) biggest defence budget in world; stronger together because of seat on Security Council; wealthier together as the sixth largest economy in the world. Well… nobody feels wealthy except City bandits, and the first two are prime reasons to leave the union!

    Reply
  4. Morag says:

    "We" are stronger, safer, richer together.
     
    Who's "we", Dave?

    Reply
  5. I think it was reported that Brazil overtook us for 6th place at the back end of last year Dave really needs to keep up. That was after Moore went on his wee trip there so it wasn't too succesful like many other things that seems to have been brushed under the rug At least AS has always something positive to report from his trips abroad

    Reply
  6. Angus McLellan says:

    @redcliffe62: Nobody should believe that everyone would be better off in the event of independence. Omelettes and eggs. But if you compare what the UK, and by extension Scotland, spent on defence and keeping folks at Faslane in a job with what was spent in – for example – New Zealand, the numbers are scary.
    In 2010 it looks like there were about 6,000 less people – military and civilian – employed by the New Zealand Defence Force than by the MoD in Scotland (approx 14K vs 20K). So there's the downside.
    On the upside, over the period from 1997 to 2010, investing the difference between NZ defence spending and notional Scottish defence spending and allowing for 1% real growth would have produced an "oil fund" of 40 billion (2009) US dollars. And continuing that trend to 2016 would produce a fund value of nearly 65 billion dollars and of over 80 billion by 2020. So pretty soon you'd be talking about real money.
     
    To govern is to choose, as some long-dead French guy said. So, if it were up to you, which of these choices – 6000 defence jobs or a large oil fund – would you make?

    Reply
  7. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    He has worries about the NHS
     
    Is that your NHS, which you are doing your best to kill, our ours, which is not the same and we are doing our damndest to save and improve, Dave?

    Reply
  8. Shodan says:

    Having heard the positive case that was up to 300 years in the making I have come to the conclusion that Dave is actually a SNP sleeper cell agent. He's worth a hundred SNP members to the independence cause.
     
    If that drivel was the best they can come up with from all their writers, think tanks, spin doctors and researchers after all their promises it is not going to cause anyone in the "yes" camp to lose sleep.
     
    The big question for me is if RevStu is now going to update his clock counter or does this miserable effort fail to count as a real case at all?

    Reply
  9. redcliffe62 says:

    As per above;
    I agree Angus, I simply make the point that there are aspects which would support the status quo for personal gain, which is understandable.
    For most people they will be better off if Scotland was independent.
    We need to see both sides of the story and cut our cloth accordingly. Even state that some jobs may be lost at Faslane but elsewhere many more will be made and there is good and bad in every decision. That would stop the scare story on this matter.
    London trying to say spending billions on nuclear weaponry is a good thing so it is a key aspect.

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,939 Posts, 1,245,979 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Billie on The Fast Track: “Bumped in to an SNP councillor who I hadn’t seen for quote a while as I left the SNP about…Jul 1, 10:55
    • Alf Baird on The Fast Track: “Yes James, Scots need to understand that “the devolved parliament to Scotland” is merely part of the machinery of colonial…Jul 1, 10:52
    • James Che on The Fast Track: “Spartan 117. You are correct, Devolution had nothing to do with democracy in Scotland, it was about control that had…Jul 1, 10:37
    • James Che on The Fast Track: “None of what I have posted is off topic of Stu’s post, or past posts, for the SNp corruption rests…Jul 1, 10:04
    • Captain Caveman on The Fast Track: “@Hatey “Firm favourites of not a few Wingers!” Heh, indeed Hatey, the irony isn’t lost on me. 🙂Jul 1, 10:01
    • Mark Beggan on The Fast Track: “You do know that you have to be actively seeking work. This doesn’t count.Jul 1, 10:00
    • Captain Caveman on The Fast Track: ““Well hold on there Bald Eagle, have you been cut and pasting from AI again?” Well, duh, YL – that’ll…Jul 1, 09:51
    • Captain Caveman on The Fast Track: ““… but do tell me how a people can begin to hold serious global power to account through political means…Jul 1, 09:42
    • Spartan 117 on The Fast Track: “Correct. Devolution, as it was conceived, was nothing to do with improving democracy, it was about New Labour capitalising on…Jul 1, 09:39
    • James Che on The Fast Track: “Three time this week the main stream news, after The outed keir Starmer the word and conversation on devolution has…Jul 1, 09:22
    • sam on The Fast Track: “Nasty little fucker. You have contributed nothing to this site but abuse of others.Jul 1, 09:19
    • Hatey McHateface on The Fast Track: “Don’t knock intersectional decolonised scissoring until you’ve read the time & motion studies that prove how it revilatises productivity in…Jul 1, 09:01
    • James Che on Ping-Pong-Fiddle-Aye-No: “Stu, Those two entities of law certainly tried prosecution on Alex Salmond with less evidence and heresay including the evidence…Jul 1, 08:57
    • Mark Beggan on The Fast Track: “A rock called Plymouth.Jul 1, 08:56
    • Mark Beggan on The Fast Track: “This word salad was brought to you by Karen Wokenstein professor of intersectional decolonized scissoring at the University of Dundee.Jul 1, 08:34
    • Mark Beggan on The Fast Track: “Lying in a Greenock hospital coughing your lungs out could may have felt a little like being on a raft…Jul 1, 08:30
    • James Che on The Fast Track: “The one thing that Tony Blair and labour did for Scotland was devolution, The Scotland act. For what was once…Jul 1, 08:24
    • Young Lochinvar on The Fast Track: “AI Dun No shit Einstein! Rather flies in the face though of why Dewar & co. fabricated Devolution as it…Jul 1, 07:52
    • Aidan on The Fast Track: ““Scotland has for all my lifetime expressed a different political outlook to that of England, yet Scots have jist had…Jul 1, 06:52
    • Young Lochinvar on The Fast Track: “HMcH Isn’t that a bit past your bedtime to be posting? Has matron been late on her rounds switching things…Jul 1, 02:20
    • Cynicus on The Fast Track: “Tapadh leat, Fheargais.Jul 1, 00:07
    • Hatey McHateface on The Fast Track: “So Orwell nearly drowned in an Orwellian whirlpool? An image worthy of Dali himself.Jul 1, 00:01
    • Young Lochinvar on The Fast Track: “CC @ 6.22 Well hold on there Bald Eagle, have you been cut and pasting from AI again? That’s AI…Jun 30, 23:14
    • sarah on Off-topic: “Good advice for my Peter, TC. He’s quite good at pretending things haven’t happened, after a lifetime of mainly disappointing…Jun 30, 22:54
    • Tinto Chiel on Off-topic: “@Alurker: sorry, that should have been ghost swift moth. She’s bigger than the male, which is white.Jun 30, 22:19
    • Tinto Chiel on Off-topic: “All your points are very good ones, sarah. It’s a pity our ex-manager hadn’t thought of them while planning for…Jun 30, 22:16
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on The Fast Track: “Gaelic version again with formatting issue fixed (hopefully) – COIRE A’ BHREACAIN Sgrìobh Seòras Orwell 1984 air Eilean Diùra. Chunnaic…Jun 30, 22:13
    • Tinto Chiel on Off-topic: “Yes, noticeably fewer insects and attendant birds here too, although I had a female ghost white moth dozing on my…Jun 30, 22:08
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on The Fast Track: “COIRE A’ BHREACAIN Sgri?obh Seo?ras Orwell 1984 air Eilean Diu?ra. Chunnaic mi pi?os mu a dhe?idhinn air an tv o…Jun 30, 21:50
    • Mike on The Fast Track: “Listened to the interview of Rev on Scotcast. The thing that jumps out at me is nobody in the police…Jun 30, 20:41
  • A tall tale



↑ Top