Pandora’s Box
Posted on
April 16, 2016 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Says it all really – no further comment necessary.
All the Unionists brexits who told Scotland not to leave are getting the same treatment. Telling Obama to butt out. Mortgages will rise (why) etc. Hypocrites. Darling reappears, after destroying his Party. Michelle claims £2000 in expense. Payment for reneging.
Vote SNP. Vote for FFA/Independence. To stop Trident/illegal wars, tax evasion, banking fraud. Stop sanctioning and starving the vulnerable. Scotland loses £13Billion to the Union.
£4Billion in loan repayments Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend, £4Billion a year in Oil revenues. Oil sector taxed at 60/80% when prices had fallen 75%. Thousands of jobs were lost. £1Billion could be saved with a tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap £1Billion spent on Trident/illegal wars. £3Billion? lost on tax evasion. = £13Billion.
Hinkley Point and HS2 – £95Billion a total waste of public money. The deficit. The Tory slush fund. The Royal Mail/RBS sell off made £Millions for Osbourne’s best man and brother in law bankers. Osbourne’s father in law is a consultant on HS2 which will make journeys throughout Britain longer
and more expensive.
£54Billion tax revenues is raised in Scotland. £595Billion is raised in the rest of the U.K. + £95Billion more borrowed and spent. Northern Ireland (2 million pop) raises £28Billion and gets £14Billion (50%) = £42Billion. Norwegian levels of funding. Rewarded for illegal bigotry, sectarianism and Unionist votes at Westminster.
Scotland would get £54Billion + £9Billion = £63Billion + (50% £31Billion) = £94Billion (NI level)
Or £54Billion + £9Billion (better spent) = £63Billion + 1/6 (same as rest of the U.K = £11Billion)
= £74Billion.
I’m saying nothing about IDS being Ruthie’s box!
Besides, she would get the benefit!
Michelle claims £2000 a month but supports sanctioning and starving vulnerable people (children)
Not the Rangers-Celtic carry on again.
Scotland was promised FFA/Home Rule/Federalism – where is it?
Major called them ‘Bastards’. He is one of them.
HoL £3000 a month + £2000 (expenses) = £5000 a month. – £60000 a year for FA.
Good one Chris-particularly like the skulls on the box. Apt for the tory party.
Madmurph
Brilliant. Dont forget Gideon hes in slap head Smiths box too , pity crash isnt in there , they would all be in each others Brown box!
Great cartoon Chris , the box has already opened.
The last thing released from the box was hope.
What (or who) does the trilby hat symbolise? Vince Cable?
I love that cartoon.
I don’t like Ruth Davidson and the free pass the yoons’ MSM give her.
She is akin to a Tory ‘gingerbread house’, with her over the top, ‘look at me’ inane-giggling photo-calls. Yet all the time hiding the ‘hellish legion’ inside; namely IDS, Boris, Osborne, Cameron etc. etc.
Just get in the box with them Ruthie, you’re fooling nobody.
It is a deep box,and there are plenty of Conservative evils awaiting full exposure again to the world.
The Tories to my mind are beyond reason or pity. They deny even hope. How they can sit in Government on high salaries or private wealth and take from the less well off to subsidise the wealthy defies all basic humanity.
I find it difficult to comprehend what factors enabled the English public to choose them to be in government,other than the selfishness espoused by Thatcher and reiterated in the film Wall St by the main character Gordon Gekko that “Greed is good”.
I think we need to start all over again.
I see Dodgy’s panama hat in the box. Maybe Ruth wants to try it on for size, or perhaps she already has.
Anything to declare Ruthie?
One issue I not seeing any hope in that box looks like Ruthie got the dud box, like all ways.
I posted this on the last topic. Perhaps more appropriate here
I wonder when Kezia will realise that the political establishment that calls all the shots through their control of the media has abandoned her and is promoting Ruthie and the Tories.
The door’s open, Kezia. Step through it and bring what is left of Scotland’s once proud Labour Party with you.
Ah, yes. The velvet glove…
Oooft! They look pretty squished!
But not quite good enough Ruthie, not quite a Carling.
Still, we knew what was in your box of tricks no matter how hard you tried to hide it.
Now we just have to convince the other 383,937 that there are truly nasty things in there. (Well, not all of them, though that would be nice.)
Boris Johnston is such a lying hypocrite. It is beyond contempt. They interfered enough in the Scottish Referendum.
The EU costs €15Billion (£12Billion) It all comes back Half in CAP payments. The rest in Grants and shared Defence costs.
Scotland loses £13Billion+ to the UK Union which doesn’t come back. Westminster blocks the opportunity of EU renewable Grants to Scotland. Westminster took EU extra CAP payments to Scotland. As part of the UK Scotland receives the lowest subsidies of any country in the EU.
How anybody can vote for a Westminster mouthpiece, Labour, Tory, or LibDem, and expect something different because it’s Scotland, is a mystery.
Where’s Kezia? Has anybody seen Kezia?
The ubiquitous Ruth is getting very tiresome. Try as they might, they can’t disguise the fact that she’s a Tory. Vying for second place in Scotland must be very embarrasing for our imperial masters.
Still another three weeks to go!
Brilliant!
We need out of this shit Union before they manage to heave her off.
Surely she will not induce voters to open that box? Too scary to contemplate.
Agree with others that Ruth is a female BoJo, and not sure if she done the zipwire yet, but is obviously channelling that nasty piece of work.
I think its a panama hat- brilliant once more. Someone else said it here and its so true – the smiling gregarious ruthie very quickly changes into the arrogant, rude, aggressive, interrupting ruthie when she is on tv on debates- really dangerous person. And as for all these tax returns being published it is often not what is in them that matters but what is left out.
Wee Ruthie’s true intentions exposed exclusively right here on WOS.
From upon her makeshift throne she spouts all sorts of contradicTORY deceptions pretending that she has no masters.
We’ve got your number Ruthie even if you haven’t, we hear you.
((((( LOOK OUT No10, HERE I COME )))))
psst, I personally think she’ll settle for a box in the HoL!
😉
Ruthie queen of Scots. It is utterly repugnant how she’s given such a lovely time by our yoon media, lately its toryboy tax fraudsters. Imagine a universe where BBC Scotland goons went after toryboy Cameron tax fraudsters, the way they destroyed Michelle Thomson or Natalie McGarry.
They are out the box and jumping on the lid (as my granny used to say).
Ruth Davidson is quietly fuming that the SNP did not fall into the “new powers” tax trap like the “radical Greens,Labour and LibDems. Hopping mad she is that the SNP did not take more money from “hard working Scots” to cover Tory austerity just for it to be taken away again by reducing Barnett money.
We have not been given any new powers but have been given new burdens.
Until Scotland is given powers over ALL taxes we are just playing into Ruthies game if we think it is being radical to try and mitigate the tsunami of Westminster cuts. I laugh at the naievete of Labour when they absurdly talk about SNP cuts. I weep when Bella Caledonia slates the SNP for not being more radical. I think Bella is confusing the words radical and suicidal. I wish such people would recognise the political realities. It is not wise to stab yourself in the back as such contortion is not entertaining.
SNP x 2 is the only sane action for those who are realistically radical.
The London media in Scotland is promoting the Tory party only in an attempt to demonstrate that Scotland’s electorate is just as much in favour of a nasty, far right wing government as the electorate is in England.
You can read the newspapers in Scotland like the date code of a white, crusty dog turd that’s been festering on the promenade in Largs since last Tuesday; stinks, seen one just like it before & best avoided.
Don’t want to think about ruth’s box.
Labour MSP Candidates and problems with the English Language – No.2
Dropped in my letterbox yesterday – Joanne McFadden’s election rallying call A5? card.
“It breaks my heart to see how SNP Government austerity is effecting the lives of the people of Angus South. If you’ve had enough of cuts to our vital public services too, then vote for me as your MSP.”
As it says on the other side of the card – “The People of South Angus Deserve Better…..”
At least she acknowledged it was a Government………..
Another classic Chris, Nice one.
Earlier comment about Ruthie Jong Un being BoJo, at least you can laugh at BoJo, Ruthie is just horrible, nasty, pathetic, twisted, little waste of space.(She must have a picture of the dead witch and herself on her pillow)
A wee O/T
Anyone else think Flipper being on the Stay campaign may be a ploy to get voters to vote No?
I will be honest, I am voting stay but the thought of that clown on the winning side!!! “makes me want to puke”.
I think, Chris, the ‘Ruthie’ I saw will be flattered by your portrait of her; I’d liken her to a concrete breeze block, in appearance, politics, and sense of humour.
At least she acknowledged it was a Government
A big chunk of the latest of many great frauds on Scotland is that we actually have Scottish government and our English neighbour has deigned to give this government wonderful new powers, BBC say we must call them. Real world and Scotland is still merely a tory owned region.
Red and blue tory The Vow shyste turned into one of Scottish histories greatest frauds but the big issue for May, is telling red and blue tories apart. If either Dugale or Davidson can get back in, even on a coalition, which is very possible, both red and blue tory outfits are going to run Scotland entirely for the benefit of England, just like they’ve always done.
https://twitter.com/A_LordDarling
The rewards are there waiting for them.
55% of Scots voted for Tory government in IndyRef. Of course the really sad thing is around two thirds of those didn’t seem to realise it. They were telt aforehone.
Now Ruthie, scrabbles and scratches to try to get some of that misled two thirds behind her, for her Union.
The nasty party, is still the nasty party. Putting a proud-Scot-but veneer on doesn’t change that!
Dippy Dug’s branch office material. Does that mean Ruthie’s box office? Ruthies not only a Bunion on the body of progress she’s also a PLANTar fasciitis.
Demented Davidson has one eye on the prize of No10, lord and master over her own little empire, well, what remains of it.
I’ve got some bad news for her, should i tell her folks? Och, may as well, there’s no back door entry to No10 Ruthie, it’s completely protected by very high walls and the latest high tech security devices known as the English electorate.
As i’ve said, you’ll just have to settle for a back seat in the HoL, just like all the other Bunions before you, nae luck chuck!
It’s a Panama hat!
Doh!
Amazing Chris 🙂
I mean they look almost………..human.
You should have had her as a puppet on a string Chris, a Tory string that we can all see. She is a PR person a media trained buffoon with soundbites. She is all about the bass no treble no treble..
Ruthie is becoming boring to watch or listen too. Garbage after garbage, too mouthy by far, she is a turn off now. Seems to forget the damage she and her party are doing to Scotland, and yes, they are doing it deliberately.
Great cartoon!
‘A picture is worth a thousand words’
Annabelle Goldie was a lovely friendly person but nobody was fooled into believing that she wasn’t a Tory.
If Annabelle couldn’t pull it off I doubt if Ruthie will manage it even if she has decided to change the name of the party to the ‘Ruth Davidson party’!
Ruth is the leader of the Scottish branch of a UK party that is causing havoc across Scotland.
The SNP manifesto will offer voters a series of policies and a programme of government for the next 5 years that will improve all aspects of life in Scotland.
Ruth’s narrow minded manifesto offers nothing but a strong opposition to the SNP. In other words they will fight against everything the SNP wants to achieve.
Ruth has carefully targetted her message and will hoover up some rabid Unionists from other parties.
Ruth is honing her craft and will be rewarded like so many before her.
Only both votes SNP will ensure there are no hiccups or detours on the next stage of our journey to independence.
I see she’s leaning towards Osborne.
Every time I hear Tory Ruthie speak this fable springs to mind
“A scorpion asks a frog to carry it across a river. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, they would both drown. Considering this, the frog agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When the frog asks the scorpion why, the scorpion replies that it was in its nature to do so.”
The fable is used to illustrate that fundamentally vicious natures cannot change.
It is now an unfortunate reality that all the unionist parties would “sting us” if we voted for them.
There’s bugger all hiding in the box! Everyone knows the culture of the Tory party, the nasty landlord party. Avoiding tax, hoovering up property and land everywhere. Addicted to power the lot of them, high up in the media, banking, lawyers and factors. And when their not suckin up wealth they spend any spare time, either killing animals for personal pleasure or participating in odd/illegal sexual activity.
Independence is the only way to sort this mess.
Good article by Mhairi Black in today’s national, full of useful information in easily digested form. One of Wee Ginger Dog’s best as well
“Their frequent turn-abouts on policy are, in fact, the closest that Labour in Scotland get to being revolutionary.”
You might just as well include Kezia, Corbyn and all the LibDems in the box. They are all Tories!
That box will have to be like the bloody Tardis to hide all the Tory shysters.
I’m surprised that Ruthie’s box isn’t covered by the butcher’s apron. Then again it probably is.
SNP x 2
OT. Dr John Robertson continues his scrunity of the Scottish Broadcastg Media.
Media Watch 14.
“Reporting the Run-up to the Scottish Parliamentary Elections in 2016: STV and BBC Scotland News: Dr John Robertson continues his analysis of TV news coverage of the Scottish election campaign: Thursday 7th April to Wednesday 13th April.”
“The cumulative data showed heavy bias by BBC Scotland, from January 8th until the beginning of the Purdah period on Wednesday 16th March, and this week is following the same pattern. 🙁
BBC Reporting Scotland continues to pull ahead on the negativity for the SNP/SG count. Come on STV! People are starting to agree with me that you’re better than the rest.”
Yes I say—STV—you have an open goal.Use it !
http://newsnet.scot/?p=116810
Brilliant cartoon and a perfect metaphor for our time.Pandora was a ” beautiful evil ” whose superficial outer image is attractive to those who have lost the foresight to see into the depth of things.Instead of giving, she takes.Pandora opened the box and out came all the troubles known to mortals…I.e. the Tories.Zeus had allowed Pandora to put the lid back on just in time so that hope did not fly out.This kept the people going when all the nasty things got them down.
Wings is our beacon of hope, truth, knowledge and wisdom against a tide of evil nasty things in our land…i.e. the unionist parties who will never yield.We are done with them as we follow the light shone by Wings on our journey to freedom.
SNP X 2
No no no…Yes says:
In other words they will fight against everything the SNP wants to achieve.
Ruby replies
That seems to be what the opposition at Holyrood is all about.
The Unionist parties get annoyed if there are called ‘anti-Scottish’ but that is definitely how they come across.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
16 April, 2016 at 11:13 am
Good article by Mhairi Black in today’s national, full of useful information in easily digested form.
Ruby replies
Good article I found the following particularly interesting
‘In Scotland, the focus on PFI as the only option for investment was quickly pushed ahead by then-Finance Minister Jack McConnell. This resulted in Scotland having a far higher proportion of the UK’s PFI-funded projects. Despite being about 8.5 per cent of the UK’s population, Scotland accounts for 40 per cent of all PFI deals.
What makes this worse is that during the period of Labour and the LibDems running the Scottish Executive, they managed to underspend the Scottish block grant by about £1.5 billion
It is strange, though, that with all the coverage on the Edinburgh PFI schools, and now on PFI in general, that TV broadcasters, and most mainstream media, haven’t got around to mentioning Labour’s involvement in the PFI deals.
Essentially these deals have seen a stealth privatisation of schools, hospitals and other public infrastructure’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36057947
Another round of staggering UKOK tory hypocrisy, blue tory this time. “No fair” Toryboy world tantrums are a hoot.
heedtracker says:
16 April, 2016 at 11:43 am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36057947
Another round of staggering UKOK tory hypocrisy, blue tory this time. “No fair” Toryboy world tantrums are a hoot.
Ruby replies
Ha! Ha! Ha! that is funny!
I’m looking forward to The Pope, The Queen, Barosso, Mariano Rajoy & loads of famous celebrities contributing to the EU debate.
Perhaps we will be treated to some Jacques Brel songs from our cousins in France.
http://tinyurl.com/n842xje
Yea that about sums it up Chris 🙂
And we need to stuff that ghoul back in the box where it belongs.
Im not up on my pandora`s box story but i do believe that the story goes only a lady can reseal the box and stop the armies of darkness.
hmmm coincidence or…… lol
We are going to have a couple of months of the Tories ripping themselves to shreds over the EU referendum. It is going to get really, really vicious. I am stocking up on popcorn and Dark Island ale.
heedtracker
I live in futile hope that one day Boris or Gove or IDS or Farage will have a moment of clarity and realise: wait a minute! All the things the jock separatists complained about are being visited upon us.
I hate Obama offering his opinion on UK sovereignty- but I was quite happy when he did so to help Better Together. I hate project fear but I was quite happy when we were raining fear down on the people of Scotland.
I think my country should be in control of its affairs but I sneered, I mocked and opposed when the Scottish people wanted the same.
Maybe that moment will never arise- certainly no political journalist seems keen on drawing any parallels. They are unavoidable although my God, they are being avoided!
Slightly ironic Boris Johnson complaining about Americans when up until last year he was one!
BBC are certainly struggling to keep it real for UKOK red and blue tory master baiters of the jocks, especially dudes like Bojo, they dont like it up em at all.
Other UKOK gimps in action
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland
Andy Murray currently playing incredible tennis against Nadal, not a peep from BBC Vote Anyone But SNP We Beg You Scotland.
Nothing sums up yoon madness that is Pacific Quay, than their news black out on Andy Murray, this morning.
O/T
Thought you might like to see a genuine lady on the campaign trail up our way.
https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/721282276353396736?lang=en-gb
Tam Jardine said at 12:38 pm:–
heedtracker
“…….I hate Obama offering his opinion on UK sovereignty- but I was quite happy when he did so to help Better Together. I hate project fear but I was quite happy when we were raining fear down on the people of Scotland.”
From the The Telegraph:-“Hillary Clinton has said she would “hate” to see Britain “lose” Scotland, adding her voice to President Barack Obama’s in opposition to Scottish independence.
“I would hate to have you lose Scotland,” Mrs Clinton said in an interview with BBC Newsnight”. 🙁
LOSE?????!!!!!!
She also said the same two years ago on the BBC ‘One Show’ 7pm Mon-Fri. I had the telly on when she interfered in such a casual cavalier manner in British politics in what is frankly a tea-time 3rd rate magazine programme. 🙁
The Telegraph:- http://archive.is/TlVkl
Test
Capella says:
Where’s Kezia? Has anybody seen Kezia?
With any sense, mate …she’s should not only be keeping her head well down, but also staying absolutely well clear of Edinburgh while the closed schools fiasco drags on. She along with other members of SLAB must be praying like hell that the schools fiasco or any other dodgy building contract doesn’t materialise anywhere else around Scotland.
@ JLT Kezia has no chance of dodging this bullet (as Ruth would say if she weren’t too busy dodging herself). But it could explain her low – to the point of submerged – profile.
@ Nana – thanks for the link to Nicola’s campaign video. She is such a breath of fresh air. Also, your link on the previous thread was very interesting. Mr Ethical (Nicolas Wilson)has some pretty damaging info on DC, HSBC and the Westminster oligarchs. Here’s the link again if anyone missed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n0J2m5UKUc&feature=youtu.be
@Capella. Oor Nicola is a lovely person, as you say a breath of fresh air unlike the stodgy dodger in today’s cartoon
Nicolas Wilson deserves is one of the good guys. He has had a rough time since he blew the whistle.
Cameron must go and anti austerity demo happening now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXYMRAEH80
Don’t know what happened there. My post is missing some words, after deserves should read [a medal and]
Must have hit delete somehow, fat fingers!
ot
just posted in bella
policies of different indy supporting parties are irrelevant, it is WM who decides. that is the whole point of indy, eg, what is the point of pushing for a greener scotland at holyrood when any gains are undermined by the tories policy which has decimated the blurgeoning renewables industry?
Even if we had elected all 56mps and all MSPs from rise/solidarity, this would not have stopped camerons attack on the poorest and most vunerable in scotland.
this isnt a new issue for indy supporters, decades ago, the snp were split by the republicanism/monarchism issue, the reason i stuck with the snp was because it became obvious that the republic of scotland that i wanted to see, would only happen if we 1st gained our independence. can you see a pattern emerging folks?
the idea of tactical voting is not to create a rainbow parliament of differing Indy supporting parties so that we can all hold hands and sing fukcing Kumbaya….It is to remove the unionists trumpets from our screens and media, reduce the unionist presence across the board and help bring about independence.
The failure of this tactical voting idea is down to all sides ignoring the most basic fact about this election where the list vote is not a scotland wide vote. there are 8 regions. it isnt difficult guys, you dont need to remove shoes and socks to count this high?
solidarity
Pros
this party has been the most consistent advocates of tactical voting. they encouraged their supporters to vote snp in 2015. the did not stand any candidates against the snp in 2015. they are not standing any constituency candidates against the snp in this election
Cons
if solidarity genuinely believe in tactical voting, why are they standing list candidates in the south and highlands regions? regions where solidarity will be competing directly against the snp for list msps, msps the snp may need for a majority?
RISE/SSP
pros
they have some real class acts in their party, people like Alan Grogan, Cat Boyd, Colin Fox would have been a real asset to Holyrood and to the indy movement.
they, like solidarity, are calling for indyref2 in the next 5 years. they cannot be accused of “once in a generation” comments and if elected, they have a democratic mandate to campaign for one and in one. It was the diversity of the yes movement which gave it its strength.
cons
they stood 4 candidates against the snp in 2015 and got a combined total of 800 votes, losing 4 x £500 deposits cost them £2.50 per vote, luckly, this stupidity did not cost the indy movement any MPs in 2015
the biggest draw back of RISE and Solidarity is their inability to settle their differences. bear in mind, they are asking for SNP supporters to vote for them on the list, SNP supporters who are uninterested in left wing in fighting, but the lefts inability to agre,e dilutes the effectiveness of a tactical PR list vote in a region. they didnt need to come together, just to come to some arrangement whereby they did not compete against each other, use your imagination folks, that these SNP supporters they are asking to vote for them could have selected without confusion.
greens
Pros
Harvey was and is a real asset to the yes campaign. their policy on land reform/lvt is very desirable.
Cons
I understand the greens desire, as the biggest of the smaller indy parties to be seen and also the need to stand candidates in the 2015 ge. but they could have stood in dundee where their votes would have had little effect on the outcome. standing in mundells seat and being seen to split the vote has been the most damaging thing to happen to the indy movement.
harvey walks a fine line wrt indy, he needs to, as the office bearers/candidates and old guard are not all yes supporters. but the greens quadrupled their membership after the indyref and these new members did not come from the B T camp.
the snp
pros
they have shown competance in the past and will continue to do so in the future. their mps, msps and candidates are a class above.
they delivered indyref1 and if the opportunity arises, will deliver indyref2. since it is the snp who will decide what happens going forward, their position on indyref2 is more sophisticated than solidarity/rise. it has to be. commiting to indyref2 is as dangerous as not commiting to indyref2. especially without knowing the result of the EU ref. if it is leave then the 2017 council elections will be an election based on the wishes of the people of scotland as to whether they want indyref2
cons
im not sure the snp have many negatives, except apart from the sniping by some of their supporters which, as i have pointed out, in some cases has been merited. re mundells seat.
the following criticisms are true of all parties
a complete failure by everyone to recognise that we are still in the yes campaign. politics has been taking a back seat for a few years now, simply because independence is the underlying solution to all political issues. eg, are you pro or anti EU? tough shit, it isnt the people in Scotland who will decide….sound familiar? Bella argues that it is perfectly sensible and normal for rise etc, to criticise other political parties, eg the SNP. this is correct in any normal political situation. except we arnt in a normal political situation, we are in the middle of the indyref2 campaign. any criticism of any other party is seen as an attack on the indy movement. coupled with the wall to wall snp bad bias of all traditional media outlets, any attack on the snp is perceived as jumping on the band wagon, not a normal political difference.
the future
in three weeks time, this political election will be over. i hope for an snp majority with as many of the OIPs displacing and reducing the number of unionists as possible. to that end i will be voting snp1&greens2 in my region, fife&mid, if you do believe in tactical voting, south and higland snp1&2
once this is over, drop the party hats and flags and don your yes2 ric etc badges , and get over yourselves
@Gary45%
I think they have put oFlipper on the Remain side in order to put YES voters in Scotland off Remain.
That only works until you look at who is on the Brexit side.
@ Nana
Good link and thanks too to RT for broadcasting the London demo.
I finally found the excellent documentary which told the story of the Irish rebel leaders of the Easter Rising 1916. It is available now for 15 days. Turns out it was made by TG4. As it is still the 100th anniversary, up to the 24th April, here’s the link. 50 mins.
http://www.tg4.ie/en/player/home/?pid=4687303713001
And from Nana’s news in the north of scotland here’s my offering from the south of Scotland.
Received another pile of bumff through the door – 6 pieces to be precise. That’s approximately 12-15 pieces i’ve received so-far. Can’t recall ever being hit so hard in previous elections.
Right, 3 of them from the SNP, to of which are addressed to me and one identical to one of mine addressed to Mrs.Stoker. Just a week or so ago we received the exact same set-up of a different SNP leaflet promoting our local candidate. Why can’t they just send out one of each addressed to Mr&Mrs Whoever, It would save them vast amounts of cash throughout the country.
Next was the one and only ‘Greens’ we’ve received and boy, did a no git a fright! I had to do a double-take, the wifey representing them is a younger ringer for Kirsty Wark. It went straight into the recycle bin unread, i’m sure they’ll appreciate that, we’re doing our bit for the environment.
Next up was the only ‘Independent’ leaflet we’ve received so-far. Some fella named Bev Gauld who lives and works in “Clydesdale” – we’re in the fricken Scottish Borders, fella! Mind you he does wear a nice wee metal Saltire on his lapel and his wee leaflet has some nice thistles on it and he does promise to work with the SG in continuing their great work etc. Sorry, fella, another day possibly but not until Independence.
Taking up the rear, yes you’ve guessed it, the latest offerings from the demented one. She is, apparently, going to hold the SNP to account and, oh aye, oppose a “2nd INDEPENDENCE REFERENDUM”. That’s about the size of it other than to provide 5 recommendations from a few familiar faces:
(1):Aye, it’s “Angela” fae “North Ayrshire” who “used to vote Labour” but now she’s in love with Ruthie to a level sycophants would envy.
(2):”Bill” fae “Aberdeen” who also used to vote Labour apparently and doesn’t like the divisions caused by indy ref.
(3):It’s a new one on me, it’s “Yvonne” fae “Dunoon” and apparently she’s a former Labour councillor (dizny sae wer tho) and she too is now in love with the demented one.
(4):And coming in at No4 is a wifey exuding very strong signals of familiarity – it’s “Leanne” fae “South Lanarkshire” and surprise surprise she also used to vote for Labour but now loves Ruthie.
(5):Lastly it’s wee “Margo” fae lovely “Stirling” who is apparently disillusioned with the “Lib Dems” and she feels “Labour has lost its way”. Oh, and she loves Ruthie that much she wants to be her mammy.
That’s it for this week viewers, stay tuned for the next instalments of mind numbing monotony.
Take with a pinch of salt but,
http://vote.cutbot.net/forecast/a4f34220 using the poll referenced here http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/kalamity-kez-in-crisis-after-unsparing.html
Gives a prediction that would be bigged up a much as possible. As far as the South region goes even with a 50% vote for the whole of Scotland the Tories will still get 4 out of 9 seats. 6 out of 73 for the whole of Scotland. This would be hailed as a glorious victory and a vindication of their local leader. Rather than the obvious illustration that the more seats there are in a FPTP election the less chance there is of a complete wipeout by any one party. Think of that when they reduce the number of seats at Westminster.
The obvious caveat is that this particular predictor might be tuned more to the average of previous polls and electoral results rather than YouGov. One advantage of this predictor is it allows you to expand the results to see what happens if you try voting tactically. The very first example gives a clue.
Central has the Greens being 1,600 behind Labour. So if that many SNP voters voted tactically then magic. Except that if twice as many did then the Conservatives get a seat from the SNP.
All other regions where the SNP are predicted to get list seats have the same problem in that without knowing the result in advance an unorganised tactical vote isn’t going to work.
Even in regions like Glasgow there’d have to be a remarkably high level of tactical voting for it to work over and above what might already have happened in the past.
Worth noting though that the same holds for Greens casting a vote in the regional list for the SNP. That also risks gifting a seat to a unionist party. Rise are the only pro Indy party whos support might even contemplate voting tactically on the list. The good thing about the predicted wipeout at constituency level is that there might not be enough votes in any region to elect a UKIP list MSP so hopefully they’ll balance out RISE as a waste of votes.
Basically the only sane advice is to vote with your head (tactically) at a constituency level and your heart ( first preference ) at the regional. In my case that’s SNP x 2. In others it’ll be SNP / Green. There’s no definitive way to tell in advance which is best from a pro Indy stand point. No need to lie about statistics in an attempt to get votes either as it only winds people up.
Stoker
tories/libdems/labour target constituencies and ignore others completely, here in NEF, we have had 6 leaflets, from the postie, for the libdems. nothing from labour. rowentree foundation money well spent rennie thinks,
as i said, even if you do believe in tactical voting, everyone should vote snp1&2 in the south region
Capella, thanks for that will watch tomorrow afternoon.
If you have a couple of hours to spare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM
search Gladio on google and watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykEHuUTYqso
Jist hud tae ching ma big boy Pampers after watching this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6JaHSI4Tc8
Naything other than SNP 1&2 thats whit we,re on to Rice an it wont be tuppence.
“I would hate to have you lose Scotland,” Mrs Clinton said in an interview with BBC Newsnight”.
She said it to David Milliband too, “hope you dont lose Scotland” on camera across the room. That Milliband was apparently a big hit with Clinton’s crew. Bet Labour wished they’d picked the normal brother. He’s got a big job in New York now which ofcourse he didn’t got through nepotism over there.
http://www.rescue.org/david-miliband
No Thunderbirds intro theme sadly. Bill Clinton made SLabour Baron George Robertson head of NATO, who also said the new nation state of Scotland would mean the end of the free world as we know it. A cluster fuck of anti democratic maniacs basically. Or at least anti Scottish democracy cluster fuck.
So it’s feel the Bern for me.
Quick google, Lord Robertson stated out loud and in public
Scottish independence ‘would be cataclysmic for the world’, ex-Nato head warns
Lord (George) Robertson says ‘the forces of darkness would simply love it’ if Scotland voted Yes in September 18 referendum
Cant think why Labour really do not know why its all over in their Scotland region, unless BBC Scotland and co really can force enough to vote SLab May 5.
schrodingers cat wrote:
“even if you do believe in tactical voting, everyone should vote snp1&2 in the south region”
Aye, SC, it’s the only way down here, anything else is suicide!
SNP x 2
Just grabbed my mail, to find a Ruthie Davidson pamphlet… it was tucked neatly into the middle of a Dominoes Pizza ‘Chick ‘n’ Mix’ Box offer. Clearly the Tory’s are still relying on their rich pals funding their propaganda. It certainly wasn’t hand delivered by a Tory.
I’ll only be putting 50% of the junk mail I received today in the bin… I like Pizza. 🙂
O/T
The future of broadcasting podcast
http://newsnet.scot/?p=116812
No need to lie about statistics
who’s lying?
Sorry but I just came across this on Facebook … absolutely BRILLIANT! 🙂 ( well at least I think it is briilant! 😀 )
https://www.facebook.com/MartinDochertySNP/videos/1314267078602936/
Craig Murray says:
16 April, 2016 at 12:25 pm
“We are going to have a couple of months of the Tories ripping themselves to shreds over the EU referendum. It is going to get really, really vicious. I am stocking up on popcorn and Dark Island ale”.
My Response :
Yes Craig , though it has started already and one hopes that those who are supposedly (according to Ruthie’s party election pamphlet coming to a letterbox near you soon) considering switching allegiance to the Tories at the Scottish elections that they are not fooled by the ‘Scottish’ title adopted by their new chosen Tory party.
We can only hope the converted ones are able to link the association between WM Tory and Holyrood Tory and if nothing else the EU In/Out war of words will prove that it is not only Labour ( via Corbyn as leader) who are a party divided but also the Tories.
And as Ruth is putting much emphasis that her party are Masters of the Yooniverse then she cannot distance herself from the internal conflict that is happening in the Tory party, or indeed the Tax evasion scandal and brutal cuts to benefits.
I am one of those who sees no distinction or difference in either the Labour or Tory party who cunningly chose to adopt ‘Scottish’ before their respective party name. We all have to realise that where these two parties are concerned let’s call a spade a spade. Ditto Lib Dems.
A Tory is a Tory irrespective of which parliament they serve.And I see Labour and Lib Dem in the same way and know they are all subservient to their masters in the South no matter how much they try to appear autonomous within the Scottish parliament their mantra is the same.
@ ronnie
That’s a cracker, wouldn’t mind one of them, looks to be worth a few bob? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6JaHSI4Tc8
Mmm
Ruthie with two little shits hanging out her box!!!
@ Nana
Who needs a TV licence! Plenty viewing there thanks.
The tg4 documentaries covered all the 7 signatories of the Proclamation but for some reason the website only has a few of them available and you have to scroll around. Perhaps they will all reappear some time.
This one is about Joseph Plunkett.
http://www.tg4.ie/en/player/home/?pid=4736491337001
The Greens collude with Unionists and renege on their own policies. They voted against Independence in Westminster. They want close down the Oil & Gas sector without an alternative. Oil & Gas would have to be imported. They do not support CCS. US fracked Gas is being imported into Grangemouth and fracked in England. There is no separate distribution in the UK. Scotland is half empty, there will be places where Gas can be fracked.
A land tax could put up housing and food costs and damage exports. There is not tax on land to keep farms together. Larger farms produce more. Anyone can buy land in Scotland £5000 an acre but they can’t build a hut because of Scottish Planning Laws. Scotland has a ‘right to roam’. For a small cost people can go where they want. The Greens protest when land is needed for essential roads etc, often funded by landowners. They waste £Million/Billions of public money.
For FFA/Independence vote SNP.
Just brilliant LA, brought a smile tae ma face, thanks. 🙂
Chris, beautifully articulated. 😉
Ah wee song for Ruthie baby & anither woman wie ah big Gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmxxq-wcnBw
I had thought that the Highland list would be difficult with both John Finnie and Jean Urquhart standing outwith the SNP.
Having now received my ballot paper I doubt that Jean has much chance of a seat.
Whereas John is on the list as ‘Scottish Green Party – re-elect John Finnie’ and I should think will get a seat, RISE have not named Jean on the ballot.
Had she stood as an independent I think she would have got a seat (I probably would have voted for her) but as she is standing for RISE and not even named on the ballot I think it is unlikely she will.
Probably, half the population have never even heard of RISE and I have not even received a leaflet from them, so without her name on the ballot paper it is just an unknown person from an unknown party.
How incompetent is that?
@ Stocker Aye there wiz ah time they were only worth ah few bob but there made in China noo £7.99 lol
The Greens collude with Unionists and renege on their own policies.
The Greens are merely nice tories. In Aberdeen one Green, the village idiot/genius blocked Trump Golf at Balmedie. Same Greens blocked Aberdeen’s by-pass at massive cost to themselves and even more massive costs to the taxpayer. Holding up the Aberdeen by-pass has added half a billion quid to the costs.
What made no sense to that village idiot/genius Green in Aberdeen, was that he and his chums waved through all kinds of massive green belt development, giant noddy box estates etc around Aberdeen but then blocked the Donald, building a golf course and hotels, right next to every expanding housing estates, like Balmedie.
Village idiots/geniuses/nice tories, vote Green.
Saying that you should vote tactically in the regional vote based on a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the potential pitfalls is not necessarily a lie but it is foolhardy. To be fair that includes voting SNP when you’d rather vote Green.
Any attempt to get votes based on dividing by seats gained is missing not only that there are more than just 3 parties in the race but that any really big numbers divided by a big number might still be bigger than the ratio of smaller numbers. It’s a fallacy that may be a deliberate attempt to deceive or a genuine mistake.
Add to that that it actually undermines the credibility of the party concerned. By introducing the idea of support from another party they reduce perception of their own support although at the same time they’ll make it less likely they’ll act against the assumed element of their borrowed support. I genuinely believe the LDs didn’t realise that they were voted in part by Labour supporters hoping they’d ally with them in 2010. The Greens are far less likely to make that mistake having talked themselves into a state where the believe they needed SNP supporters to get them seats.
No doubt after the dust is settled we’ll see results where tactical voting might have had an improved result in one direction or another. We’ll also see results that doing so would fuck things up. If the prediction for South in the link I gave earlier is accurate then that’s one where that would be the case.
Don’t vote tactically in the regional list, it’s more probably going to lead to tears. At least voting for what you want is better than not if you lose in either case.
Actually, if I lived in a Glasgow regional seat that had a chance of the Conservatives winning with a candidate other than Torquil I might be persuaded to vote for them to keep him out of Holyrood. Same with the LDs elsewhere but going on that prediction Willy’s out without my help.
All about euro ref on news there.Those Tory leave campaigners complaining about the opinions of foreign leaders.Didn’t hear any Tory Mayors bleating about foreign leaders like President Obama speaking up for bettertogether.
orri
It’s a fallacy that may be a deliberate attempt to deceive or a genuine mistake.
really? i predicted 56 mps on the 24th of sept 2014, i also predicted the ge result to within 0.1%
perhaps it is you deliberately attempting to deceive or just that you genuinely dont understand the numbers.
heedtracker
have to agree about the green councillor in aberdeen, complete erse.
however, the actions of the labour and libdem councillors is going to ensure that they get wiped out in may and come the local elections it will ensure they get humped by the snp
@ ronnie 🙂 Aye, watched more vids featuring them and realised they’ve been mass-produced.
_____
Chris’ toon brings a whole new meaning to thinking outside the box. Will that become another Ruthyism do you think?
_____
Oh for goodness sake! All this coverage of the demented one really is going beyond a joke. Now in an effort to boost campaign funds they’re promoting a full ‘Ruth Davidson Box Set’.
I kid you not! Unbelievable! http://archive.is/pBvye
http://vote.cutbot.net/forecast/a4f34220
73 constituency seats is a far different kettle of fish than 59 especially when there’s a even poorer show from Labour and the penny is dropping regarding their poor handling of the contracts for those schools. The PFI aspect is less of an issue unless it contributed to a cynical assumption on the part of the builders that the could cover and defects as part of the maintenance. It’s the self certification that’s the glaring problem.
Besides which assuming that prediction is anywhere close there’s no where other than perhaps Glasgow where tactical voting might even be considered risk free.
She normally sits on a tank. Did she get shot of it?
Cartoon is brilliant.
I wonder what the Scots Tories will do when the EU referendum hots up after the May elections. I note that their minions are not revealing their true colours.
Are they waiting to be telt what to say?
Puir wee souls. It must be awful being subsidiary stooges operating at a distance from their masters and wondering what next?
schrodingers cat says:
16 April, 2016 at 5:32 pm
heedtracker
have to agree about the green councillor in aberdeen, complete erse.
Greens also blocked Andy Murray sports development at Sterling too. What a bunch. The’re just nice tory nimbies and here in Aberdeen, its so nice listening to posh English people explain why they are stopping stuff getting built in their Scotland region.
All of them to a yoon have not the slightest interest in what anyone thinks, me included, if you meet them out and about. Its kind of nice really, you stand and listen, nod, suck your teeth, sigh, nod again, and they have no idea you’re a vile separatist because the dont give a flying UKOK feck what anyone else thinks.
Get a frontal lobotomy, Vote Green.
heedtracker
a bit unfair to all of the greens, the ones here in NEF were and still are some of the most active in the yes movement.
as i said, harvey needs to walk a fine line, many of the more prominent and longs established members in the scottish greens are no supporters or at least luke warm on scottish indy but the huge increase in sg members all came from the yes campaign.
Get a frontal lobotomy, Vote Green.
if the only option is wullie rennie getting in as the 7th list msp in fife&mid……..then I will
Our priority is to wipe out as many Unionist Parties as possible.I trust the voters in our Kingdom of Fife Region will manage to unseat Willie Rennie, for the common good.The discredited and untrustworthy Mr Rennie can then go join his FibDem colleagues in their collective and massive black hole of Lost Deposits.
We scots are known for giving it laldy, at the ballot box, to those we no longer trust nor believe.
We are also known for our warped sense of humour.Wings is where I get the chance to laugh out loud, thanks to some of the funniest, witty and articulate thinkers around and I thank them for it.
Youse all help to stoke our resolve as we campaign towards our destiny of independence.
SNP X 2
cearc at 5.07
You have mentioned the two ex SNP MSPs- John Finnie and Jean Urquhart. There is a electoral malfunction issue here. They were both elected not by name but off an SNP list. When they left the SNP they abandoned the reason for their election ie to represent the SNP (unlike FPTP elected members who are elected by their individual name).
Both should have stood down from Parliament to be replaced by other SNP nominees or elections should have been held to replace them.
The Greens have a fair few members and it would remarkable indeed if they did not vote for their own party on the list vote.
I would like Green party supporters to vote SNP in the constituency vote especially if there is no Green standing in the constituency as is likely to be the case. To support this I would point to the banning of GM crops, the moratorium on fracking, support for renewables and the recent land reform bill. The SNP of all the main parties are the one that has lent the most sympathetic ear to the environmental lobby and is the most likely to continue doing so.
SNP members will vote SNP x2 – they have candidates on both ballots. SNP leaning supporters undecided on their second vote should consider their list. Some lists are clearly going to return SNP members and it is advisable to vote SNP x2 in those. A couple of lists are likely to have a strong Green showing, notably Glasgow and Lothian. As an SNP backer I would prefer SNP x2 but we are asking for votes not demanding them and if you are determined to cast a list vote for someone other than the SNP then the Greens are an obvious choice. However, don’t waste your list vote. Keep your eye on the polls and if you are in a list area where all the seats get divided between the 4 main parties vote SNP.
Note if you are a Liberal, Labour or Tory voter then the above does not apply as none of them are going to win and it is therefore perfectly safe to vote Green as your second choice.
Really excited about Marvels new creation Baroness Green, must be better than Batman vs Superman..
https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/720731591220281345
Big well done to Carrick RFC on winning the BT Shield at Murrayfield today. Party time in Maybole..
BT Cup Final still on going Melrose v Heriots…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doAOmIyfcEs
Some lists are clearly going to return SNP members and it is advisable to vote SNP x2 in those
agreed, been trying to tell those who want to vote tactically that snp1&2 is the only choice in the south and the highlands
mid&fife it has to be snp1&greens/rise/solid2. wullie rennie will not win the NEF constituency but is still number1 on the list for the libdems. 2000 of the tory vote in NEF switched to libdems in the ge, and about 2000 labour voters also switch to lib dems. most of the libdem list votes in fife&mid will come from NEF. (unionists cant vote tactically in the list since it may impact on their no of list msps)the greens have already overtaken the 6th list msp spot so rennie, will be elected as the 7th list msp from this region with 5% of the vote…about 15000. either rise/solidarity pick up 5% of the list vote(still annoyed they couldnt come to some mutual agreement to aid this situation) or the greens double their vote from last time.
i think that wullie rennie could win or lose this by less than 1000. i couldnt really care who takes his place, for all of their faults, solid/rise/greens are a huge improvement on wullie rennie
ps he has already said even if it is an eu out he will still vote no in indyref2, half of what little support remains for his party will finally cross over to yes if this happens.
get rennie out
Keep your eye on the polls
wise advise
Ken500,
“The Greens collude with Unionists and renege on their own policies. They voted against Independence in Westminster.”
The Greens are today what the Lib Dems were yesterday.
Political opportunists.
Result? Re-election of the Tory viceroy of Scotland, thanks to Patrick Harvey and the Greens.
Don’t trust them one bit.
SNP+SNP, or we are doomed.
Heedtracker: “I would hate to have you lose Scotland,” Mrs Clinton”
More howlers here: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-iY
HandandShrimp @18:48 said
As much as you can trust them, anyway.
I posted this in the previous thread, but since some of you may have missed it there, here it is again:
For those able to attend, Prof. Curtice is giving a talk on this very topic this coming Tuesday:
‘Are the SNP heading for another triumph? Prospects for the May 5th Election’
Tuesday 19.Apr @ 18:00, Boyd Orr Building, University of Glasgow
Could be interesting…
The twa idiot Greens in Aberdeenshire did get dumped by the Green Party. After getting dumped by the LibDems. After wasting £Billions of taxpayers money. The ACC one is still there. Colluding with the Unionists, like dangerous idiot Willy Young, reneging on Green policies. Wasting £Millions of taxpayers money building grotesque carbuncle in the City Centre when the majority want it predestrianised.
They are spending £30Million renovating an Art Gallery. Refusing a Gift of £80Million for UTG project which could have predestrianised the City Centre with an exit to the Green/Union Square. Vote Green at your peril. The LibDems supported the UTG Project. It would have gone ahead. They allied with the SNP. Pity about Willie Rennie. The Liberal policy was once to support Home Rule, before they became the FibDem Party.
As I understand it, constituency votes don’t get added in with list votes to decide who is elected for the regions.
So could Labour lose out in a double whammy this time? Not very many constituency wins but their voters choose another party for the list?
(If their voters turn out at all, that is…)
Curtice wrongly analyses the statistics. He always get it wrong. It is surprising he is classed as such an expert. The Pollsters are making £Millions and wasting public money. Influencing the results. There was an Inquiry but they always get away without sanctions. The Bookies make a fortune. Are they getting tipped off?
Ken500, that is harsh about Curtice. He was the only pollster who actually called the UKGE right.
Ken, you say; “Curtice wrongly analyses the statistics. He always get it wrong. It is surprising he is classed as such an expert.”
Care to explain how he wrongly analyses?
Also Ken500, I’m not sure why you are getting so het up about the Greens in the North-East. It’s actually Labour who have been wreaking havoc in Aberdeen City Centre (and for years)!
See eg:
http://lenathehyena.wordpress.com/2015/01/24/less-is-more-the-muse-of-marischal-square/
Dave McEwan Hill,
I don’t see how that is relevant to the current election. They are both well known and have a strong personal vote.
I think that they could both have won a list seat at this election, as independents which is why the Greens have named John but RISE clearly don’t want to win as they have made Jean invisible.
@ken500
Curtice was the only pollster to distinguish himself last year.
I tend to listen to him.
That fracas over on Bella reminds me of arguing with No voters before the referendum. Telling them what was in store by voting No, and now living it. 🙁
I know it’s only a tiny minority trying to play the system, but it still makes me nervous.
@Cat I’m keeping my fingers crossed, that there are no indigestion tablets lying about on 6 May.
Robert J. Sutherland
So could Labour lose out in a double whammy this time? Not very many constituency wins but their voters choose another party for the list?
yes, thy can tactically vote in fptp constituency votes, they did in nef in 2015 when 2000 tories voted libdem and i expect they will do this on the constituency vote in may. but tactically voting on the list, for unionist parties, in most regions where they win no constituency msps, is impossible. there is no way of calculating or regulating this, eg tories may vote libdem in the list vote for fife&mid but at the expence of their chances of getting a tory list msp elected.
then again, if the leader of ukip doesnt understand the electoral system(he appears to think it is an stv type election) there is no reason why the general public should either. so unionists voting tactically in the list will either even each other out or favour one unionist party at the expense of another unionist party
Ladies, gentlemen and others, please note, the Rev is looking for approval (or not) on a costing regarding the Wee Black Book over on his twitter feed. £10incpp for 25-books. For those of you who can and haven’t yet done so can you please get onto his twitter feed and register your vote. Lets get this book into circulation!
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Rev, can you clarify for me, and no doubt others, if that £10 already includes the p & p or is it still to be added? Thanks!
Valerie
@Cat I’m keeping my fingers crossed, that there are no indigestion tablets lying about on 6 May.
tx val, I also wish the discussion around the issue had been more tempered and that rise/ssp/solidarity and greens had been less obstinate since it was these smaller parties who had the most to gain electorally.
the inability for the indy parties to come together helps the unionists the most
Stoker, £10incpp seems quite clear to me.
@Stoker
It includes P&P, was mentioned in the original tweet that I read this morning.
schrodingers cat says:
16 April, 2016 at 6:21 pm
heedtracker
I know and totally understand why your second votes Green.
Its the experience of them in action that is an awful mess. They’re playing on radical Green politics in countries like Germany where they really do have a big influence. But Greens here are really nimbies playing at radial change. That’s why they are as much use a chocolate tea pot here in Scotland.
If you think you dont like the horrible not green stuff going on, vote Green. It wont make any difference but you’ll feel good about yourself, in the yew kay.
In Scotland, vote Green and you could also let the SLab/BBC creep show back in via coalition and that will be a change.
Thanks, schrodingers cat, but I wasn’t so much thinking of them voting tactically, but rather mistakenly. As in “I’ve voted Labour in the constituency, so now I’m going to use my second vote for another party”. (Eg. being fooled by some of the nonsense being put about that the list vote is a second preference or some such, or if they secretly lean towards UKip, or are Unionists seduced by the lovely Ruthie.)
A likely scenario, or am I just day-dreaming? =grin=
Yip, thanks guys, thought as much, excellent value if you ask me! Just think, if you’re in the habit of buying into the dead tree scrolls £10 wouldn’t even look at your monthly bill. Once you’re done with the rags they’re done, time for the bin or whatever.
Mind you, there are those of us who’ll swear they’re done before you even purchase them but that’s another story. Here we have a great opportunity to spread the word crushing those rags at a mere fraction of a newspaper subscription, especially when you throw a regular Sunday rag into the mix.
Beware, Bunions, the truth is on its way!
the pollsters were wrong in england but they were spot on in scotland, the constituency polls were spot on bar one in glasgow but identified it as still being a huge swing to the snp.
would have been good to have done some constituency polls especially in orkney and shetland, a little birdie told me that in 2015, shetland voted snp, it was the votes from orkney which got carmicheal elected.
after this election is over, we will be looking at the 2017 council elections, which if it is an eu leave, may well become the event nicola is looking for to launch indyref2
we will need to do better if we are to win control of all 32 councils in scotland
One thing worth bearing in mind is that unlike the GE postal voters from the rUK don’t have the weigh the pros and cons of where to legally cast their vote unless they’ve managed to wangle a registration in more than one Scottish constituency. How large a problem that is as far as unexpected upsets at that level or in an individual region is anyone’s guess. Just bear in mind that legitimately or not the polls don’t necessarily reflect the entirety of those eligible to vote this time. It’s probably wise to knock a couple of percent of the SNP and spread them around the unionists, mostly the Conservatives.
Much more fun if this is an issue is regardless of the Holyrood result, although hopefully it’ll be another SNP government, is the potential for EU sceptics in that position to deliberately cast their vote in Scotland in order to play down any disparity between here and the rUK.
My prediction is the constituency ballot percentage will be notably lower than at the GE barring Labour or one of the other parties fucking up even more than now. Even a single percent will be enough for propaganda purposes. The regional ballot will be even lower as those who voted tactically at constituency level vote for their personal preference instead. It’s highly probable that greater play will be made on that second vote.
The game is being set up so that SNP voter apathy is encouraged which really risks further upset. If the SNP maintain or increase their current majority then it’ll be virtually ignored. All eyes will be on the “real” contest between Labour and the Conservatives. God help us if the SNP majority drops or even disappears.
@schrodingers cat
@Robert J. Sutherland
Re Unionists on list.
Most, or even all, of the seats Unionists gain will come from each regional list.
Most loyal Unionist voters will give their constituency vote to their parties as a matter of course. The paradox is, in most cases it will make no difference to the outcome.
When it comes to the regional lists all sorts of possibilities arise. I would propose the residual rumps of Labour and Tory voters will have different levels of political undserstanding. Basically, I suspect Labour supporters are more like to make a mistake by misunderstanding the system!
I can’t imagine many Tories choosing anything other than Tory on the list. However I can easily imagine Labour folks thinking it’s a second choice and opting Green, Rise, Solidariity … Or even anti-Indy Tories. Heavens, even UKIP.
I believe Labour could be hit harder on list voting than the Tories.
The more we learn about the AMS voting system, the more clearly we see that tactical voting doesn’t make any sense. The luvvies on Bella can do what they want with their second votes.
I would actually be willing to bet that the SNP do better than the polls are currently predicting too. Most people who vote SNP with their first vote are going to vote SNP with the second too, and there is not a thing Cat Boyd, Loki, RISE, the Greens, or any other born loser can do about it.
The fact that politicians from all other parties fight to get on the list rather than fight democratically in the constituencies speaks volumes about how confident they are in the crud they are peddling. That applies to the loony-left Greens and Socialists too.
Elections recently have been quite unpredictable. Nobody predicted a Tory majority last year, for example. I won’t be wasting much time trying to predict the unpredictable. What we do know is that anything other than voting SNP twice is a dangerous game to play.
SNP twice guarantees a strong voice for Scotland and a realistic chance of another referendum. There is no alternative.
Could I suggest not referring to the regional vote as a second vote if you have any worries about people mistakenly voting for a second party. I’ve a friend who made that mistake up until the last Holyrood election. He’s probably not the only one. If anything it’s the constituency vote that might be considered your second preference.
Just had a look at my postal ballot. The regional ballot is listed first on the declaration. Subtle guidance to how the system is meant to go or how the SNP want it to be seen?
Along the same l
Could I suggest not referring to the regional vote as a second vote if you have any worries about people mistakenly voting for a second party. I’ve a friend who made that mistake up until the last Holyrood election. He’s probably not the only one. If anything it’s the constituency vote that might be considered your second preference.
Just had a look at my postal ballot. The regional ballot is listed first on the declaration. Subtle guidance to how the system is meant to go or how the SNP want it to be seen?
Along the same lines, perhaps this confusion was deliberately fostered by Labour so SNP voters wouldn’t vote for them on the list.
Too good to just be on O/T
To Nicola
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpsn39FB_BA&list=RDWpsn39FB_BA
@ Dave McEwan Hill: Dave, see my post at 3.35pm, any ideas or thoughts on who No3 may be? I would guess, going by her picture that she’s in her 50s (possibly early 60s), looks a wee bit like Kirsty Wark with a wee bit of weight and has blondish/mousy hair colour. I’m afraid that’s all i’ve got to go on.
The Tories may be making some headway with their lies about the ‘Named Person’ scheme. I think people have a problem with the title ‘named person’.
What about Protector, or Guardian, or Defender, or something similar? ‘Named Person’ sounds so mechanical and impersonal; it sounds to me like it came out of a bureaucratic mindset. Not user friendly to my ears.
glad im on the opposite side of the unionist troll advocating a blind adherence to snp1&2 everywhere. think about it guys,
had we been organised and pulled this off, labour and the tories would now be vying for 3rd place
Stoker
This is her-Yvonne Robertson from Dunoon
http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/14043624.Former_Inverclyde_Labour_councillor_switches_to_Conservatives/
Boris Johnson has called Barack Obama a hypocrite…
Okay, fair do’s, but why is that one of the ‘headlines’ on a three-minute 10.00 Radio North Britain News?
BTUKOKers don’t understand why we’re still banging on about independence? It’s because – at least in part – we keep hearing disembodied voices of the same Eton-boys who care as much about us as we do about them. But we have to concede that these people still control our lives…
Intolerable.
heedtracker
i understand the issues you have with the greens, i share many of the same concerns as you. but my dislike of the unionists outweighs my concern
thing is heed, had we managed to organise this properly, and i mean all sides, had ashcroft constituency polls in any marginals etc, agreements from the smaller parties not to stand in some areas and to not compete amongst each other, we could have wiped the unionists out of holyrood completely. as it is, the overall snp msps will be about 70, only 2 more than they got in 2011, and the oips will be lucky to get 3 or 4 each.
this is a missed opportunity for us all. i hope we learn from our mistakes
I’d urge you all to view the link Arbroath 1320 gave at 4.28. This is Jackie Baillie’s constituency seat and I think we all want to put her gas at a peep.
I live in the neighbouring SG constituency and I know some of the women and the candidate through Women for Indy. They are all ace.
Dave McEwan Hill at 9.30 second that!
Nice one Chris,
A brilliant illustration of how evil Ruth Davidson is – by the company she keeps and the policies that she endorses.
Fact: “Ruthie” is part of the machine that kills people who have disabilities…
http://www.calumslist.org
One day this will ALL be revealed. More as likely in court – and what happens to these politicians from the ilk of Ruthie, IDS, Gideon and Dodgy-Dave will make the MP expenses row look like pleasant walk in the park.
@ Lollysmum Thats her taken care of Unalectable
Schrodinger: “glad im on the opposite side of the unionist troll advocating a blind adherence to snp1&2 everywhere. think about it guys, had we been organised and pulled this off, labour and the tories would now be vying for 3rd place”
Let me guess, you’re one of those old labour types? You want to take us back to the glorious 1970s, a time when women and children knew their place.
@NeoconNat
Why if I hover over your avatar does it tell me you are angramainyu2015?
Seem to remember we had someone here with the same avatar posting drivel just as you do. So far tonight you’ve stuck the boot into Ken500 now stuck the heed on Schrodingers Cat.
You’re having a laugh eh 🙂
Perhaps it should not go unremarked, that today is the 270 anniversary of the battle of Culloden.
These are the opening lines of the poem by John Roy Stewart of Strathspey, commander of the Edinburgh Regiment at Culloden.
“THE DAY OF CULLODEN.
Ah, the wound of my breast! Sinks my heart to the dust,
And the rain-drops of sorrow are watering the ground;……”
The full text can be found here
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18619/18619-h/18619-h.htm#JOHN_ROY_STUART
It seems to me NeoconNat has done his job on here, what with people who were solid during the Indy campaign being played like a violin.
Judean People’s Front rules…or is it the People’s Front of Judea?
pnr
dont worry about me, i find stranger looking insects in my cornflakes than neotroll angramainyu
as i said before troll…piss off and dont come back, there’s a good chap
@Conan the Librarian
Much respect for you, but one look at the Scotsman website is evidence of what happens when the trolls take over.
cearc at 8.29
It is not relevant to this election as you point out . I did not say it was.
The point I was making was that they were both elected on the list as “SNP”. They were not elected as individuals (which is the formal position in the FPTP vote) but as specifically only “SNP”. When they left the SNP they should have stepped down from Parliament as they no longer represented what they were elected as.
Actually I would make it a rule even on the FPTP that if you leave the party you were elected as a representative of you should stand down and seek re-election under your new colours
hi conan
this troll is having little traction here
the problems concerning tactical voting are long standing
talking of the pfj, i see you have lost your icon, heres a replacement
mlblogslimeytwinsfan.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/splitter1.jpg
🙂
“Why if I hover over your avatar does it tell me you are angraymainu2015?”
Well spotted.
QED.
Game over.
Don’t get you Thepnr. NeoconNat is a very skilled troll, and I merely pointed that out, as have others.
@ cat.
Cheeky. But funny.
@ Lollysmum
Thank you, yes, spot on, the photo in the link you supplied is the exact same one used in the Tory bumff i received today. Mystery solved!
As the nawbags don’t seem to be able to beat us any other way they will now play down the election and try to produce a poor turnout so they can say nobody’s interested. There are a number of likely consequences of that, a major one of which is a Tory advance as they haver traditionally been more conscientious at voting than Labour support.
A low turnout of our opposition is a huge opportunity for us however of we can get our support out. We have to campaign for a numerical majority on both votes. We have to suggest that such is a mandate for a new Independence assault. We have in the past procured a distortion in our favour by getting more of our vote out. As we appear to be the only serious campaign in much of the country this is possible but it needs identified support and contact, even on polling day.
I am puzzled by the strange Labour silence.
@Conan the Librarian
I thought you were pulling me up for engaging. We shouldn’t engage I know but when you have decent Wings posters defending trolls I feel it is necessary to say my piece.
If I am wrong then it is surely me that will suffer and I’ll deserve it.
Shit no Thepnr, ever seen me on the Telegraph? LOL.
Engage, but not on their terms!
The lavvy-pan’s overflowing…
Can anyone remember, without scrolling to the top, what this thread’s about?
That’s why ‘NeoJobby’ is happy, amassing bonus points…
He’s been found-out, called-out, but remains lodged here, and he ain’t going no place soon.
U-turn if you like, but Neo-Job’s not interested. He’s just here to clog things up, and is doing a fine job of it too…
Sorry…what were we talking about?
The calibre of losers now supporting the demented one revealed: http://archive.is/km0Me
@Conan the Librarian
Not only seen you but gave you haunders once or twice 🙂
Stoker;
That story perfectly sums up Yoondum.
They truely are all the same. One big happy family subservient to London.
Yoon Loons Together! All working for the London Elite!
Zat how it works, thepnr, you give each other “haunders”?
Interesting confession but doesn’t open, free, and equal debate make a healthier and happier forum?
It’s always amusing to watch small children and the behaviours they display to attract attention. A real shame, though, to think of what they are missing out on to behave as they do.
Any attention is good attention eh Neo?
@angramainyu2015
Yeah that’s how it works, helping each other out. Too socialist for you or just feeling lonely?
Dave McEwan Hill
The strange labour silence you speak of is the silence of infighting. It is the silence of awful canvassing returns. It is the silence of a chronic shortage of activists.
It is deafening. The PFI scandal has, I suspect rocked slab to its very core. The fact the press and the BBC have protected them and the SNP have seemingly chosen to take it very easy on them for the moment doesn’t seem to matter. What is there to be said: when a policy, an ideology is wrong it is wrong and nothing can change that.
How many people know what TTIP is all about? It doesn’t resonate. PFI resonates- ordinary folk know it is completely discredited and one word goes hand in hand with PFI: labour.
Kezia is invisible right now which is no way to fight an election. The trouble for the yoons is that Willie Rennie is a joke and Ruth Davidson, whilst holding the hardcore britnat vote she is wasting her sweet time. Are labour voters really going to start voting conservative? There are not enough remnants of the lib dems to bolster the tories.
The SNP have been quiet as well but it is a different type of election… an election on their record rather than big, bold new ideas it seems.
We will have a better idea on Wednesday once the manifesto is launched where we stand.
Nothing for it but to get the windae posters up, get talking to friends, family, colleagues and shake off lethargy if it exists. Some of us will vote SNP twice and others will vote SNP GREEN or SNP RISE. We will find out how this works out in the fullness of time.
I would ask again and again for respect of the democratic rights of others. Temporary rivals or detractors were formerly friends and will become allies and friends once more.
@ Thepnr Weil done that Manny, open ah tinny an relax
Where are the dozens of ‘haunders’ that a truly committed, if newly sprung, independence supporter could expect?
Where was this neophyte during the indy ref debates?
Behind a NO counter, one suspects.
@ Giving Goose: My thoughts exactly!
_____
A guy visiting Tower Bridge walks into a small gift shop.
He notices a small bronze statue of a rat and he asks the owner how much and the owner says £100 for the rat and £1000 for the story behind it. The guy tells the owner to forget the story and he purchases the rat. As he walks along the street he begins to notice hundreds of rats following him and the further he walks the more other rats join in. He starts to panic and immediately heads for the waterfront where he lobs the bronze in the water. To his amazement all the rats follow suit and jump into the water after the bronze. To his astonishment all the rats drown so he rushes back to the shop as fast as he can. The owner says, “Ah! so you’re back for the story.” “No” says the guy “i was just wondering if you had any bronze tories?”
Night night troops!
🙂
@NeoangramainjobbyuNat –
Why so quiet?
This delay in posting [for me?] is pissing me off. First my avatar goes, then I have to refresh like a troll to see if my pebble has caused any ripples.
Aye Stoker doesn’t take much tae flush oot the Red Tories from their embedded lairs as ‘Labour’ councillors…when their little fiefdoms are under threat. New Labour were just freshly baked Tories with a smidgeon of socialist rhetoric on top, tae squeeze them past an exhausted electorate suffering from years of the hard baked variety.
Now they’re aw riddled wi mould…time tae chuck them aw tae fuck.
Bunch a chancers the lot of them.
@ Ian
The big guns are here. *polishes nails, nonchalantly*
State o’ this: snigger
https://twitter.com/JoanMcAlpine/status/721433975764426752
Tam Jardine
hear hear
at least you got a laugh outta yer ripple 🙂
The big guns are here. *sharpens claws nails, nonchalantly*
Thepnr and Conan, in the one place at the same time? Ah, I remember it well Gigi!
Meantime, as previously mentioned on the OT thread, for Paula (4 inch stilettos (with sparkles)) and all the other Wingers with a mind to break ceilings (glass or otherwise) I give you our footy lasses in song:
Got together with an old friend last week for a blether. Discovered that she truly believed that the 2 voting papers were for first and second choices, and was not aware that you could vote for the same party twice. I put her right but others may be confused.
Is the councils vote next year not an alternative voting system with first and second choices? Confusing in Scotland with different voting systems for the each of the different elections, WM, SG and councils.
Might want to check with family and friends that they understand what they are doing this time round.
Review of ‘Jungle Book’ tomorrow.
As we approach the election, first the serious stuff – ‘Economics for Dummies’
http://wp.me/p4fd9j-6lI
@Conan –
Long time mister…where’s you been?!
@ cat
My stomach ripples when I laugh. Circulus vitiosus.
it has to be said, we are where we are not only by our own efforts, the unionists like ian gray and his comedy of errors have also contributed to our success.
we did this by chipping away at the local elections, denying them representatives, throttling them at birth as it were. we reduced the gene pool and the results are showing now. this process will accelerate in the next 12 months and by the time indyref2 arrives, neo troll will be about the best they can muster to run the no campaign
@ Ealasaid.
Got a text from a local Lanarkshire SNP office-bearer to warn that Slab are telling the electorate that it is illegal to vote SNP twice on the ballot.
As Robert Peffers would say, Sheesh!
Lots of work for us to do down here.
Slab: never knowingly telling the truth.
Thepnr, do you think I need “haunders”?
Ian Brotherhood, what are you talking about? Does anyone know?
Anyway, why is a pro-Indy conservative anathema to SNP supporters? I’ve been pondering that. Someone else asked why there’s no pro-Indy party of the right. I think it was indyref2.
The answer based on talking to friends etc. is that they like the way the UK is set up for business right now and wouldn’t want to jeopardise it. You might think that’s a bit selfish, like they’re putting narrow business and personal interests before those of the country.
But many leftists did exactly that in the 1970s too. That’s why we lost the referendum back then. The view back then amongst many on the Scottish left was that our interests were best served by staying with the Labour Party in the UK.
Looking at it like that, it was the left that lost us the referendum in the 70s and it was the same left that lost us the referendum in 2014 when they fell for Brown’s theatrics. On both occasions the fell for the same spin and the same old lie, that Labour loves us.
Forgive me, then, for telling the luvvies on the left now, RISE, Bella, and the rest (by the sound of things Schrodinger too who still seems to hold a candle for them), to go take a run and jump.
Loony-Leftists within the independence movement are basically fifth columnists and can never be trusted.
Hiya Dram, Ian. Been a wee bit ill, got retired, had a major piss up, back to normal.
Met wee Ruth in Edinburgh. She looks like a wee Lego mannie come to life in person.
Thepnr and Conan in the same location at the same time? Ah, I remember it well Gigi!
Meantime for Paula (4 inch, “Pretty Lucretia” sparkly stilettos) and all the other Wingers determined to kick all kinds of ceilings (glass or otherwise) in:
http://www.scottishfa.co/girl/
Play it again Sam
Ok off to bed, I just want to answer SC first. Recently at least we have done a lot more than “chipping away”. We have hammered the opposition, so badly that Labour in Scotland is now a rump party as are the Blue and Yellow Tories.
I have vengeance in mind in that it is time to kill them off politically. I mainly mean Labour and Lib Dems here as the Tory support is what it is and more than likely always will be.
Their soft belly is the Labour support, take half of what remains then we win and Independence referendum.
My money is on Anas Sarwar as next leader, three treble twenties after Murphy and Dugdale. We couldn’t have asked for more.
Note how troll attempts to regain control by deflection?
Right and left wingers with any *real* wish for independence have to back the SNP as the best option.
The pseuds at Bella have given the yoons an angle, and as you can see, it’s being exploited.
NCN: we “lost” the 1979 Referendum because George Cunningham, a Scot who happened to be the Labour MP for Islington, inserted the infamous 40% rule during a late night session. Later, he quickly betrayed his own party and left to join the SDP. Callaghan, in his own memoirs, blamed his own Labour back-stabbers for the collapse of his government, not the SNP.
I lived through it. Did you?
Nothing to do with the Left.
NeoconNatterjack: “Loony-Leftists within the independence movement are basically fifth columnists and can never be trusted.”
Yup. Same self-serving waffle. Same signature posts denigrating everybody in turn while purporting to back independence. Just a different moniker.
A Tory obsessive thinks wearing a Scots tammy and sticking a thistle in his lapel will help him pass through the turnstile free of challenge.
@angramainyu2015
You got two heads or something? What is your preferred name on Wings? Get it sorted.
Blasted auto entry, posted the first message before I put the link in…..as Homer would say doh! Hence repeat…blush, blush, blush.
Sorry to hear you’ve been no weel Conan, but glad you are on the mend mate. Bit of a shock that your recovery was put in jeopardy by stumbling into Ruth……jings, a 155mm round would be enough to put most folk back a pace or two.
Hope we’ll meet up again in 2016
@NeoconNat: “Someone else asked why there’s no pro-Indy party of the right. I think it was indyref2.”
Nope. Sadly for you I’m around and attentive to untwist the Angra twist.
What I said was that Indy Ref 2 needs to attract the conservative voter, as well as the left voter. I also pointed to the underused resource “Wealthy Nations”, renamed as the “Wealthy Nation Institute”
http://www.wealthynationinstitute.com/
You said: “The answer based on talking to friends etc. is that they like the way the UK is set up for business right now and wouldn’t want to jeopardise it. You might think that’s a bit selfish, like they’re putting narrow business and personal interests before those of the country.”
This seems to me to be an attempt to turn people against people of a conservative inclination – precisely the opposite of what Independence needs, and something Unionists would be very pleased if it happened. YES needs to attract the conservative voter, considering only 4% of Conservative voters voted YES, the figure should have been much higher.
As Wealthy Nation said:
“We support Independence because we are Conservatives, not in spite of it.”
I’m sure as a neocon nat you’d heartily support that idea, rather than pretend it’ll never happen.
Wouldn’t you?
Tinto, yes, I lived through it. Not that living through anything necessarily gives you any sort of special insight, as you demonstrate.
I made the point that the left sold us down the river in the 1979 referendum and that they done the same again in 2014. How simple is that? It was clear that I was referring to the Labour Party and others on that side of the twilight zone when I said left.
In disputing my point you give the example of a Scottish Labour MP (of the left) conspiring to move the goalposts with the 40% rule. Forgive me, but either I’m absolutely nuts and 2 + 2 isn’t 4 any more, or you are bonkers.
Further to that, you might consider why the turnout was so comparatively low. Clearly a lot of Labour loyalists stayed at home. You might also consider how Scottish Labour manipulated the turnout, counting dead people etc. It was totally rigged in essence, by Scottish Labour.
By the way, I think never mind all this left and right bollocks. I think it’s all much easier.
Capitalism makes the money, and Socialism spends its share wisely and fairly.
In an ideal world, that is. The precise definition of “share” is just politics.
Schrodinger…a fifth columnists who cant be trusted…
ahah, the quintessentially old de-phlogistonised luminiferous aether argument
I wondered when you would get round to bringing this up
mea culpa
pnr
You got two heads or something? What is your preferred name on Wings? Get it sorted.
Dead or alive
Their soft belly is the Labour support, take half of what remains then we win and Independence referendum.
My money is on Anas Sarwar as next leader
yup more of the same from labour….i mean it has work so far….hasnt it?
2 + 2 isn’t 4 any more, or you are bonkers.
2 + 2 = 5
but only for large values of 2
your welcome
counting dead people etc.
this is the unionists……in essence,
NCN: “Forgive me, but either I’m absolutely nuts and 2 + 2 isn’t 4 any more, or you are bonkers.”
False dichotomy. But, for the record, I am quite happy to be bonkers in your world.
So a right wing Labour MP finagles the 40% rule and it’s a left wing problem?
Howling at the moon you are.
yesindyref2
32% voted labour in 2011
30% labour voters voted no
25% voted labour in 2015
20% to vote labour in 2016 according to the polls
an eu out result will rip the remaining no support in half. indy is a shoe in if that happens
im sure neo troll will be back on here to congratulate us when we are celebrating the demise of britain, the union, the british army, the bbc, the queen, and all of the unionist parties, including his beloved tories.
i give the uk 18 months tops
LABOUR’S ‘toxic PFI legacy’ will cost Scottish taxpayers a massive £30 billion over the coming decades, the Sunday Herald can reveal.
The failings of the Private Finance Initiative schemes, championed by the last Labour government, have been thrust into the spotlight by Scotland’s ‘crumbling schools scandal’ which has led to the closure of 17 schools in Edinburgh.
An investigation by the Sunday Herald has uncovered the huge debt that Scotland’s public sector will have to repay – not just for schools, but also for hospitals, roads and waste treatment plants.
The article wont archive — ‘server error’
I’ll try later.
Cal Me Dave: “the Sunday Herald can reveal.”
Would it have revealed that if we did not have an SNP government? I doubt it, although the figures were always available to publish, and warnings were made at the time the usury contracts were being sealed.
I admit it’s a wee bit too heavy a read for this time of night, (jokes thrown in or not) so I’ll publish it again with my ‘Jungle Book’ review tomorrow evening – a great film.
Economics for Dummies: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-6lI
Grousey, I just read your latest blogpost. Absolutely inspired… probably by me. It’s pleasing to think that I am testing you and pushing you to improve. I liked the article though, even if I didn’t agree with much.
I should say that I considered correcting it in terms of where you went wrong but I guessed you’d never publish my response on your website and so why waste 5 minutes like that? Time is money.
In short, and you admit as much yourself, you make the mistake of thinking economic decisions should rest on sympathy for the poor and frivolous concerns like that. Adam Smith actually made similar assumptions and errors and you were right about how he has been misrepresented.
Take account of this: the biggest problem facing mankind right now isn’t poverty, it’s the opposite, abundance. That’s why the environment is being decimated. This system that you hate so much somehow sustains around 8 billion souls. It was announced last week that more people are obese than undernourished.
Those endless queues of people at the borders of Europe aren’t trying to come in and dismantle capitalism. They are coming here to try to take part in it, just as the Eastern Europeans, Russians, and Chinese before them chose it.
Capitalism is far from perfect. Too many people suffer and there is undoubtedly too much corruption. Conscientious people like you should address that. Throwing the baby out with the bath water isn’t an option because there is no plausible alternative.
History essentially came to a culminating point in 1989 when communism collapsed; there are no competing ideologies any more, there’s just this. Call it what you want, it’s here to stay because everything else has been tried and this is the least worst. The final system. The end of history.
Mankind isn’t going anywhere — this is it — because there’s nowhere else to go. Try it and see.
@Tam Jardine
Labour – quiet campaign?
I was wondering where all the big hitter Labour ex-MPs have all gone to?
You would have thought some of them may have hung about to help out poor Kez. Apart from Sarwar there are none to be seen.
Quite telling that these guys have all given up on Scottish Labour.
I suppose Gordon Brown will make a last minute “major intervention” ?
But apart from that they (~40 off) have mostly disappeared.
Looks like Slab is dying and they know it.
NeoconNatterjack: “there is no plausible alternative.”
Your fatalism doesn’t sit well with your claimed superiority.
“The end of history,” says NCN.
On a par with, “To infinity and beyond.”
Doesn’t even register on the fridge magnet school of philosophy.
OT
Sunday Herald quoting Curtice: “Professor John Curtice says Yes voters should instead give their backing to another pro-independence party – such as the Greens or the leftwing party Rise – in case unionist MSPs are let in by the back door.
I’ve read Curtice on his blogs, and noticed him getting excited whenever the Greens do well in the list, so I suspect he’s a green voter, but not an Indy one, a devo-max one.
Slight conflict of interests reference his supposed impartiality …
Tinto Chiel: “On a par with, “To infinity and beyond.”
🙂
I’d vote for the Green party of land campaigner Andy Wightman.
No way in hell I’d vote for the Green party of Ross Greer.
Back on topic, thanks to Chris Cairns for another excellent cartoon. Vote for Ruth and get her Box of Tory Delights. 🙁
@call me dave says:
17 April, 2016 at 1:31 am
LABOUR’S ‘toxic PFI legacy’ will cost Scottish taxpayers a massive £30 billion over the coming decades, the Sunday Herald can reveal.
Full on attack-mode front page from the Sunday Herald.
Good to see this at election time, compared to a few wishy washy covers recently.
The rip-off deals under Labour’s PPP schemes are a bigger scandal than the school faults themselves, imo. Excessive private profit, expensive maintenance deals, and often the taxpayer still won’t own the property at the end of the contract.
Grouse Beater: I’m actually getting worried about my subconscious. I said earlier, “Howling at the moon you are.”
NCN=Yoda=Aldo=Insensate Dave?
Och, I need my bed. And Robert Peffers for a ruling on such matters.
Night, all. My smiley always seem to come out as a ? But let’s try.
?
See?
OT
Some even more extreme “misrepresentation” by Curtice in another article in the Herald where he says “that proves to be case for any regional list vote cast for the SNP anywhere other than in the Highland and Islands region, the only region where the party is projected to win any list seats”
That’s an outright lie. The Conservatives are expected to take one or more seats in the South of Scotland, and therefore the SNP to take 1 or more list seats.
Curtice is really going overboard on this election. Last chance saloon.
@Onwards
Yeah. Sucker the SNP voters into buying the Herald then fool them into not voting SNP on their list vote by using Curtice in the most extremely poor case of psephology ever seen. The Sunday Herald steps up its agenda into trying to avoid a majority SNP Government.
I do believe James Kelly can claim to be Scotland’s foremost psephologist.
@Tinto Chiel
I’m half inclined to add Loki to that list.
Yesindyref2: you caught me half up wood hill to Bedfordshire and behorlicksed.
I think Loki is like many on the BC side of things: they’re too right-on to vote SNP and can’t compromise for the sake of a better future for us all. They’re quite useful for the Unionist media, though.
It’s same old, same old for the righteous Left.
Bonsoir enfin, mes braves!
@Tinto
Rev’ll probably kill me with hammers, or at least full metal mallets, but here you are:
https://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies
🙄
😈 😳 😆
Cool, I’d ‘lost’ that link wi smileys, hehe
Vote SNP x 2 to muck up Curtice. A second rate Pollster and political hack, who always gets it wrong. Wasting £Million/Billions of public money. The Bookies best friend.
Wow. I fell asleep at the keyboard, a new thing for me. Old age or ConNat’s influence?
If Scotland was Independent and the Oil & Gas on the West was developed (with no alternative) and TTIP. Scotland could have full employment and be £Billions better off. Instead of losing £13Billion++ to Westminster, which could be better spent. Where are the electric cars. 4 times cheaper to run.
Sarah Smith, Call Kaye, Glenn Campbell. Louise White .. your team took one hell of a beating but don’t mention Labour and PFI
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14432710.__30_billion__The_cost_of_Labour_s_toxic_PFI_legacy_to_Scotland/?ref=ebln
Imagine BBC Scotland not showing Outlander or Andy Murray.
BBC £3.7Billion
What other ‘Democracy’ in the world would have it’s Press owned by Non Dom tax evaders. Influencing policies, so they can keep tax evading.
yesindyref2 @2.52.
Thanks very much for the Smiley info.
I’m due a hammering myself for straying so far o/t.
https://caltonjock.com/2016/04/17/bbc-radio-services-scotlands-pig-in-a-poke-rip-off/
Ken500 says:
17 April, 2016 at 8:09 am
Imagine BBC Scotland not showing Outlander or Andy Murray.
Ruby replies
I bet they are furious that people all over the world are watching Outlander and flooding to Scotland as a result.
The Outlander fan base is amazing.
Outlander fans all over the world are wearing ‘Dinnae fash yersel sassenach’ teeshirts. 🙂
http://www.outlandertvnews.com/2014/08/outlander-comes-to-japan/
Any else get the feeling that the two lead actors in Outlander are madly in love?
https://thebonniekilt.wordpress.com/outlander-opening-credits-season-2/
I posted on here a few nights ago that I was waiting in vain for the vote leave campaign to join the dots and start to see what the Yes campaign were up against and, in fact, the merits of Scottish Independence.
Tim Stanley writing in the Telegraph is starting to see little light bulbs pinging on. http://archive.is/DXC3q
He is clearly not writing for a Scottish audience which affords him a little honesty.
“The campaign could boil down to tired, compromised elites vs anti-establishment visionaries. It nearly worked for the SNP.”
I can see this EU referendum is going to be difficult for us Indy supporters. I can see the arguments of the leave campaign: hell, I’ve been making them for years. Our best shot at independence involves me aligning with Alistair Darling on a Better Together ticket?
yesindyref2@ 2.52: thanks very much for the Smiley stuff. Very useful.
I need hammered myself for straying so far off topic.
Previous attempt disappeared into the ether.
That PFI article in the Herald:
https://archive.is/6c8ji
Scottish ‘Vote Leave’ launch descends into farce as Ukip roll up
https://archive.is/UCrLq
Radio shortbread paper reviewers spluttering and huumphing and haawing about having to mention Gordon Brown,PFI and the labour party all in the same sentence, so try to disguise these matters by homing in on their ‘get out clause’.
‘The walls falling down in the schools aren’t the fault of what method is used to fund the project’
Straws being clutched… 🙂 Good old auntie!
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Scot goes pop: Worth a look.
Prof Curtis is being misquoted.
https://archive.is/d6wq9
Another Herald PFI article
PFI branded Labour’s ‘toxic legacy’
Any mention of of the Labour Lib Dems returning £1.5 billion to Westminster either in the articles or the comments?
In the article ‘PFI branded Labour’s ‘toxic legacy’
‘The construction cost was £225 million, but by the time the last repayment is made in 2030 the total unitary charges will add up to around £1.5bn. ‘
£1.5bn that was amount Lab/Lib Dems returned to Westminster.
Could someone who posts on the Herald make a comment about this return of £1.5 billion.
Anyone know if you can get the latest comments to show up in archive and not have Charles Linskaill comments at the top of the list?
Lucky readers – two essays in one day:
Nobody likes whistle blowers: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-6sI
Tam Jardine
the eu polls in scotland show an overwhelming lead for remain, (65%) not including DKs
it isnt a subject that motivates people and we will struggle to motivate members to campaign. it is just not our bag
most of the doubters i meet are happy to accept that a vote to stay in the eu isnt necessarily permanent whereas a vote to leave the uk, is
@ call me dave The herald PFI piece is a scare the natives story £30billion in dept (pre 2 Ref),nobody knows what Swinney will do but I suspect he will tackle this head on ,but there needs to be a full enquirey into the PFI & McConnell giving £1.5bil back to the treasury.
Call me Dave
I’m listening to shortbread fm now- did you hear Gerry Hassan comparing the Oxgangs wall collapse to that of Scottish Labour? A little off message!
Could be the first report on shortbread explicitly blaming (or even linking) PFI to labour.
Margaret Curran on directly after spluttering and struggling to obfuscate, distract and circle that square.
Radio shortbread should look to the Hootsman about how to spin the PFI schools story.
PFI bad but no mention of Gordon Brown or labour!
SNP just as bad, job done!
https://archive.is/1I36s
@ Boris 8.34
That link is dynamite.
I have a crude and unscientific appreciation of politics in Scotland. I have no statistics to back it up, no expert witness to authentic my findings, no documented history to present for others to consider and draw their own conclusions.
We don’t so much have a spectrum of politics with two extremes held in check by a flexible centre. What we have is more like a garden fete, with each party allotted its individual stall. The capacity for one stall to influence and change the opinion of another stall is virtually non existent. Some stalls sell a franchise they’re not supposed to change. The stalls are too far apart for discussion, and too rooted to their pitches to move position on anything.
When the fete opens, we, the Scottish public, meander in to witness the somewhat ungratiying spectacle of political salesmen giving it the hard sell to get their hands on our votes.
The problem is, as we wander through the fete trying to make our decisions, we’re not allowed to. We have this annoying tannoy blasting into our ears, talking up some market stalls while belittling and seeking to discredit others. Unfortunately for our democracy, the capacity of the tannoy to influence opinion is vastly more powerful and far reaching than any individual vendor at one of the stalls. It speaks louder, it reaches all of us at the same time, it endures whether popular or detested, and it isn’t answerable to any of us.
We will never have democracy in Scotland while the BBC has this power and opportunity to influence our political landscape. It isn’t the Labour Party which should trouble us. Nowadays they are dysfunctional has-beens before they ever were. Lib Dems or Tories? Oh please, they couldn’t sell a used car in Scotland. In Scotland, Labour, Tory, Lib Dems, UKIP; they are all mere patsies who come across as rather dim and filling posts that brainier people with a degree of integrity wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. That’s our opposition? Behave. There is something else going on here. These people couldn’t direct traffic.
It was once said you could put a red tie on a monkey and it would get elected in some parts of Glasgow. Know what? Well, you could pop a red, blue, or yellow tie on a monkey and see it get prime time exposure on the BBC so long as it was trained to throw bananas at the SNP.
The only opposition the SNP has is the BBC and Westminster’s manipulative propaganda. The darker question forming in my head is whether the whole political scene in Scotland is merely a game, and our faith in any democratic resolution is a dangerous illusion. What actually happens if or when the SNP eradicates all other political mandate in Scotland? Will Scotland be free? Or will the BBC just use actors to sell us the Westminter pish and keep us distracted while they plunder our resources for yet another generation?
Sooner or later, the SNP will have to take on the BBC. We are all merely treading water until they do. And heads up – it will take more than electoral success or constructive negotiations to unseat the BBC. I feel like it’s 1913, or 1938, and have that desperate resignation that war is coming. It won’t be shooting war, but I fear the BBC won’t leave Scotland until it’s physically thrown out on its tannoy.
Great post, breeks.
Incidentally, I didn’t think much of the boris link and caltonjock article. I am sure there’s a case for analysing the BBC on that more scientific level, looking at funding and share of broadcasting hours etc., but I suspect I’m more like you breeks in that I think the big problem is the BBC’s utter corruption.
Would we complain about our share of broadcasting hours if the BBC was really impartial up here?
With the BBC you get more or less exactly what you’d expect from a state funded propaganda machine: in that respect, what applies to the Soviet Union, China, and everywhere else, applies also to the UK.
Government and the truth don’t mix well, like oil and water. The same could be said of corporate media but we are not forced to pay for corporate media or watch it in the same way we are forced with the BBC.
@ Breeks: Enjoyed your post ( @ 10.53am) with a wee chuckle but can i take this opperchancity to throw a wee criticism? In the interests of avoiding confusion, when referring to party colours, could you please refer to the FibDums as *amber*. 😉
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Boris posted:
https://caltonjock.com/2016/04/17/bbc-radio-services-scotlands-pig-in-a-poke-rip-off/
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I see the voting on The Wee Black Book pricing is now closed.
£10 per 25-copies and that’s your P&P included.
Out of 657 votes 89% supported the pricing with 11% disagreeing.
Excellent value for money if you ask me.
Lets get this wee cat into circulation among the pigeons.