On no accounts
Having been privileged to serve as SNP National Treasurer, I’m aware of the duties that go with the post. Of course, it’s changed in some ways since then due to the scale of the party, the resources available and even technology. The days are long gone when Joan Knott, who has sadly since passed away, required to take a taxi down to my legal office to have cheques signed between court or clients.
But some things still remain fundamental, and in particular providing annual accounts for the party. That has been done for 2019, in the administrative sense, but what’s missing is their publication and provision either to the NEC or the party more widely.
For sure there’s been no conference but there are other bodies and other ways of making them available to party members. At NEC, conference and indeed anywhere else, members were entitled to see them and question me. It was their right to see them, and it remains so now. So why haven’t they seen them?
It’s not as if the financial year has just concluded, for the party accounts are set on the calendar year. As in my day the accountants need to prepare them and then discuss them with the National Treasurer. Moreover, lockdown and coronavirus may have moderately impeded matters, but most will be dealt with by an electric exchange of information and meetings can be virtual.
So with the financial year having ended on 31 December 2019, and as we’re now in October 2020, it’s maybe about time that they were available.
I’m led to believe that the National Treasurer has had them audited and concluded, even if there are aspects such as certain salaries that it appears he isn’t privy to. Now, the party may be of a far larger scale than in my day, but there is something strange when the person in such a critical post is denied such relevant information. But that’s a separate issue.
The accounts haven’t been shown to – let alone approved by – the NEC. They have, though, been submitted to the Electoral Commission, as rules required them into that body by early July. So, if they can have been lodged with a British state agency for months, why can’t members of the SNP have sight of them?
I’ve asked the Business Convener for a copy and that they be provided to the Westminster MP group. As appears to now be standard practice, I haven’t even had the courtesy of a reply. Members pay their dues, elected members contribute a levy, so why can’t we see what’s done with our money?
For many, though, the major interest will be funds that were contributed for the specific purpose of a referendum. Assurances were given that those funds would be ring-fenced. That may well be so, but it should still be confirmed and shown in the published accounts. Trust requires it, and as the political temperature heats up, party funds will be critical.
An indication that the party has been fundraising, even during these difficult times, and that resources to fight both an election and a referendum are available, is essential. If they aren’t then questions need asked about just what has been going on in HQ.
The indications coming from declarations made to the Electoral Commission are far from heartening. When support for the party and the cause of independence has never been greater, questions have to be asked about that. But to do so the information in the accounts is required.
There are, though, already causes for concern that can be gleaned from past accounts and where checking on the current situation will be imperative. Indeed, questioning of the accounts will be essential. Its estimated that the HQ wage bill will be around £1 million, understandable with a staff of just over 20.
But if a fifth to a quarter of that is going on the salaries of just two individuals that is less so. Clarification of salary brackets and the numbers of people in them must be provided, along with pension contributions.
The powers we face are well resourced and it’s why our cause must cherish every penny and maximize its use. Such questions go beyond the party, though, as the resources afforded by Westminster are huge. It’s reckoned that between SNP MPs’ contribution from their salaries (around £11,000 per head) and Short money paid by the UK government, the group’s budget this year will be north of £1.5 million.
It’s been slightly lower in some past years, given the loss of members in 2017. But a back of an envelope calculation leaves you with a figure of upwards of £7 million since 2015 for the Westminster group alone. Back then, members were told it would be a huge resource for the independence cause. Has it been?
I’m not criticizing staff but am questioning whether our cause is getting best use of what is after all its resource, both at HQ and in Westminster. Legitimate, normal and reasonable questions need to be answered, not blanked.
Please continue to question Kenny. The support of the movement for your party depends on them being fit for purpose.
Another interesting post from you Mr MacAskill, it does sound as though the party’s dragging its heels on distributing the accounts figures for 2019.
The question must be why, what is it that they don’t want the membership and Joe Public to see.
As for huge salaries for a small number of individuals, surely this must be addressed in the future. A small fortune could be saved by dismissing Peter Murrell, when evidence surfaces over his (alleged) WhatsApp scandal. More cash could be saved by firing Leslie Evans her sheer incompetence has cost the Scottish taxpayer, (by the whole disgraceful fiasco is settled) millions.
Then there’s the party leader the epicentre of all that’s going wrong within the party at the moment.
How about I declare myself the president of Scotland, form an independent government, dismiss the SNP and freeze their funds?
Guaranteed international recognition, seems to have worked in other countries with oil reserves.
Kenny MacAskill says, upwards of £7 million since 2015 for the Westminster group alone. Back then, members were told it would be a huge resource for the independence cause. Has it been?
I have been asking this question for 5 years.
Its estimated that the HQ wage bill will be around £1 million, understandable with a staff of just over 20.
Wait. £50,000 per annum, approx per worker in SNP HQ?
Am I reading that wrong?
Agreed, Kenny. I don’t think anyone could argue against anything you are saying here. What you are suggesting is simply ‘normal practice’ for any organisation with finances, big or small, and common sense.
I hope you, and everyone in the SNP and indeed the public at large, get satisfactory answers very soon.
There may be a ‘new normal’ afoot, or even running amok in some quarters. But even so, whatever anyone thinks about it, if this new ‘normal’ wants to avoid criminality, it will have to look out.
Surely the ‘new normal’ can’t be so abnormal as to jettison ‘normal’ accounting practices, or believe it can do so with everlasting impunity. Or so obtuse as to think it can indefinitely postpone its ‘normal’ duties of accountability toward its own membership and contributors, as well as to the general public. Or so lacking in sense that it can ditch common sense altogether, especially in the financial area, where ‘normal’ good practice is always of paramount importance.
Thank you for posing the right questions, ones that currently need to be posed. The fact that such a need exists is already alarming. These are such normal matters that you would expect them all to have been taken care of long ago. Unfortunately, it seems clear that such has not been the case. I wish you much persistence, and success, in pursuing these and other pressing matters of a related nature.
I always thought of John Swinney as reasonable man, level headed and prudent. However Mr Swinney, or Deputy FM Swinney has been asked by the committee to come clean on the costs over the Salmond fit up, but has refuse to produce the figures.
We know for sure that £118,000 was spent by the Scottish government on QC legal advice, over and above the £512,000 awarded to Salmond.
Deputy FM Swinney did say it wasn’t possible to calculate the sums spent, due to the way Civil servants are paid.
Following on from recent stooshies, and having tired of being told by her fans that “Nicola Sturgeon is one of the most highly-ranked politicians in the world”, I decided to bother my backside to do a bit of digging into the provenance of this claim.
The only thing I could actually find was a “new study” by a “panel of experts” last July that ranked her “the fifth most eloquent world leader”. The study, from the Development Academy wing of a company called Acuity Training, succeeded in achieving massive coverage in the UK mainstream and alternative media, and further afield.
So I decided to find out a bit more about this eminent and influential global think-tank that had been so complimentary about our leader.
Acuity Training is a commercial training company based in Guildford. Most of their training courses are in Microsoft Office and other similar software. They are fairly modest in their claims:
“We are a small training business based in Guildford… We don’t aspire to be the biggest training business in the UK…”
And they’re clearly not exaggerating. The company is so big that their website contains no information at all about anybody who works for or is in any way involved in the business – no founder, no owner, no management team, no employees, no trainers, no experts… not one single name. Their “Development Academy wing” is of such overwhelming influence that it does not rate a mention on their website. Neither does their “panel of experts”, and neither does the “new study” they produced. A wider internet search did not produce a single link to even a copy of the press release about the study, far less to the study itself.
The cynic in me is inclined to suspect that Acuity Training is a man and a dog operation with no Development Academy, no panel of experts, and no study. The man (or his dog) deserves a great deal of credit for carrying out a very successful PR exercise that got the company’s name into pretty much every UK mainstream media outlet.
Unfortunately, it seems that the claim that Nicola Sturgeon is one of the most highly-ranked politicians in the world actually emanates from a publicity stunt carried out by some anonymous nonentity in a two-bob training outfit from a tumbleweed market town in the middle of nowhere.
I’m sure the police investigated Natalie McGarry, for less with regards to little transparency of funds which didn’t belong to her. Those currently hoarding the cash if it’s still there should reflect on this.
Kenny Mac Askill a proper MP. Experienced, balanced and knows the questions to answer. I feel the end game is upon us. I am reminded of metal fatigue. Tiny cracks emanating from the centre suddenly leading to catastrophic failure without warning. Chance for a new start coming up soon. I think the SNP and the wider Independence movement need it.
Excellent contribution, Mr MacAskill. This is essential. We need answers, the Party needs to be accountable.
Accountability: Strange days indeed, when the SNP’s self-congratulatory ‘longest-serving member of the house’ criticises the audacity of a fellow member for requiring accountability, transparency within the party. I’m sure Wishart will claim criticising of the vehicle being used, but that’s airy-fairy stuff, for no one else – not one other journalist – is prepared to ask the crucial questions being asked here. Mr MacAskill seems to be able to grasp this – why can’t others?
If Wishart’s happy for his constituents to faff around for another 30 years, coughing-up to pay his salary, then somehow manage to defend a cloak of secrecy surrounding sums of money, and other irregularities, then the rot is so deep-rooted that the only solution is for someone prominent to ask questions – a bit like MacAskill’s doing here.
Yes, there are undoubtedly many good people in the party, but it’s patently obvious there are those who would want MacAskill not to ask the essential questions. Why?
Wishart: what the hell’s that poor guy gonna do when he can no longer stand up and address the House?
That’s what I thought at first Shiregirl @ 9.30, but I think we are both reading it wrong.
The article mentions two very highly paid individuals at SNP HQ. Some reports estimate that Peter Murrell might be getting 200,000 a year, or near-on.
If the other highly paid individual gets anything like near enough the same, that leaves a lot less to be shared out among those further down the salary scale at SNP HQ. And even among these ‘others’ (excluding the 2 high-flyers Kenny alludes to), a small few will be doing quite nicely thank you (your 50,000 or so, and probably well above) while most will be on something far more modest and average.
I wonder how much Murray Foot is getting. I don’t suppose the ‘VOW’ that made him famous was a ‘vow of poverty’ …
Very reasonable article Mr MacAskill, answers are needed. The SNP are beginning to look like a cowboy outfit.
Tannadice Boy@9:47. I agree.
@Stonky
“Unfortunately, it seems that the claim that Nicola Sturgeon is one of the most highly-ranked politicians in the world actually emanates from a publicity stunt carried out by some anonymous nonentity in a two-bob training outfit from a tumbleweed market town in the middle of nowhere.”
Well researched.
My heart goes out to all those vulnerable people in Scotland’s cities, with their low incomes and zero prospects, who actually bought into all this.
Nicola gave funding to the MSM! We know how much that was.
Yet they can’t tell us what’s in that ring fenced indy fund? I have my suspicions.
Breaking news
Eu to take legal action against uk government because of the withdrawal agreement.
So the SNP are now sitting in Westminster with the rest of the international law breakers.
Sturgeon should withdraw her MPs immediately.
I would have thought that the level of financial disclosure would be set very high for a political party.Much like it is for a PLC. Everything as transparent as possible.
Certainly I would expect them to disclose the remuneration of the CEO and other top level executives. The other staff payroll information does not have be that specific but for the top brass, yes, full disclosure every year. The only reason I can think of for them trying so hard to keep it a secret from other SNP members is they know it will make them look bad. What else could it be.
And what possible gain are they hoping for by delaying the release of the financials. The accounts will have to be released at some point so what are they up to by delaying it. I am trying to figure that one out. The election is too far away surely, no way they can delay until then or even close to it, right? They are acting suspiciously for sure but I am struggling to see what they are hoping to achieve by it. Unless something is imminent that we don’t know about but they do.
The SNP are one shady outfit these days, it is on all fronts we are seeing it as well. Everywhere you bloody look…
In what universe is it acceptable for the party’s Business Convenor simply to refuse to reply to a query on such an important issue from an MP?
It’s bad enough that complaints and requests from members are stonewalled and ignored….but from MPs? Really? Is that the kind of open and honest government we should expect?
The SNP membership and branches need to urgently direct the party that a minimum response time be given for responses to complaints and requests.
I will say this again.
The reason I suspect Nicola keeps delaying indi ref 2 . Is because some or all of the ring fenced money has been spent , when it shouldn’t have. So they don’t have a war fund to fight the referendum.
They can’t do a crowd funder , because people don’t believe there will be a referendum, and because they will ask what happened to the ring fenced money.
I believe this is the truth of the matter. One thing that should never be forgotten. Nicola told a journalist on live TV. That there would not be a referendum until the effects of Covid were over. She cannot take that back. That’s exactly what she has planned. Win Holyrood 2021 , then sit back and say the economics of Covid are too risky for a referendum.
We have been in this movie before folks. So it’s either Nicola or independence. She cannot be allowed to get away with this con anymore.
Saying what possible reason for delay. After Dec 31st, we will be ruled by WM.
How much hand ringing, speeches etc will be given but as per, no action.
The accounts will disappear into the ether
@Stonky/Papko –
Yeah, this unthinking worship of NS reminds me of the deification of Carol Vorderman. People felt they knew her personally purely because they’d seen her on Countdown. She was ‘the lass who can do all the sums in her heid and did you know, she went to university when she was three’. It’s like they adopted her as the gifted daughter they never had.
Now, Ms Vorderman sells life assurance plans to their grandchildren – just give them a call and she’ll work out the premiums in her heid.
Another example of very serious allegations made and access to critical information that could clarify matters being withheld – by the very people that the allegations seem to concern.
Fiduciary obligations aside, accounts are generally considered a private matter and there’s lots of room for flexibility, “fuzzy math”, and being relaxed about things. There’s also millions of loopholes.
The donations to the fundraiser are a different thing and if those donations have been directed to anything other than the stated cause, well, I’d be surprised if that sort of thing wasn’t covered very specifically in some law or another.
It’s odd that people who are sticklers for rules and regulations when it comes to things like demonstrations in George Square, harassment in the workplace, and court proceedings, appear to be so casual on matters as serious as this.
Good comment Big Jock.
Of course the SNP deny spending the ring fenced indy funds, the easiest way to dispel any untoward criticism would be to reveal where the funds are, but they haven’t, why?
link to thenational.scot
Of course the funds could be in a deep underground vault guarded by mute eunuchs.
Stonky says:
Hi Stonky – this might interest you re Acuity Training:-)
link to beta.companieshouse.gov.uk
link to beta.companieshouse.gov.uk
link to financefeeds.com
Ms. Kahan has been far more active than that, however, as she is listed as the founding director of 25,802 companies in the United Kingdom, and is present on all of their documentation which is filed with Companies House
The following from ‘Finance Feeds’ .
Now, as a result of an investigation by FinanceFeeds and British news source The Times, it is now completely transparent as to what the link is between unregulated companies with a London address, and Israeli binary options scammers.
2 Woodberry Grove London, N12 0DR – Innocuous middle class Finchley residence, or enabler of massive scams?
link to hamhigh.co.uk
So the Acuity Training Company had Barbara Kahan involved at one time:-)
The Barbara Kahan whose name was on almost 26,000 companies from the one address
@RoS
“Of course the funds could be in a deep underground vault guarded by mute eunuchs.”
I so want that to be true!!!
£11,000 per head? If an employee were paying that from their salary to a company they worked for or through then they’d have every right to know how that money is spent. Regular members with far smaller subs obviously do too. Someone claiming to be Gerry Fisher here at the end of another article stated quite clearly the Treasurer who was an honourable man, which Mr MacAskill previously agreed with, should be able to share the accounts with any member who wishes that information. I rather wonder though why he hasn’t shared those details with Mr MacAskill if he can share them with the EC. If they’re been lodged with the EC since the summer then what or who is stopping him sharing them with Mr MacAskill?
@Republicofscotland –
‘Of course the funds could be in a deep underground vault guarded by mute eunuchs.’
Soo-perb.
Laughed so hard there I think I’ve done meself a mischief.
🙁
Stonky, is this the study: link to development-academy.co.uk?
Perhaps these are the experts who spent 100 hours analyzing world leaders to come up with a top ten and who decided Barack Obama was the best communicator amongst world leaders in the last ten years link to development-academy.co.uk.
I am going to guess that the CEO and COO combined are getting 300-350k per annum. Murrell getting on for 200k and the balance to the other useless one. So that would be more like 30-35% of the HQ payroll… on two people.
IMO it is ridiculous that an organization this small, and financially speaking the SNP is very small, has both a big salary CEO and COO. They are not fucking Unilever.
holymacmoses says:
1 October, 2020 at 10:33 am
Stonky says:
‘The Barbara Kahan whose name was on almost 26,000 companies from the one address’
25,802! Good lord, I’ve seen some dodgy addresses used for stuff before but that’s some number linked to one person. And just proves as Stonky implies, you should always read behind and about headlines and who is making claims and why before believing them.
As a former SNP branch treasurer I know exactly how hard and fast HQ would come down on you if the branch accounts were submitted late.
Time to turn the tables.
Mr McAskill ,
Thank you once again for an excellent post ,
“ I’m not criticizing staff but am questioning whether our cause is getting best use of what is after all its resource, both at HQ and in Westminster. Legitimate, normal and reasonable questions need to be answered, not blanked. “
As you said this is not the staffs fault , The Snp HQ and NEC have become a * closed shop clique * environment and they show total disregarded for members in the way they are now working .
Emails sent from members ignored and no answers sent , if this was a PLC working in this way with shareholders the board of directors would be shown the door at their AGM .
It’s time that all the accounts should be open and transparent and they should be sent out to every member .
It is a national and pressing scandal that the Murrells have created a private, pecuniary fiefdom, where they are able to use party funds in complete secrecy.
One feels the SNP has been turned into the Murrells’ private company ownership.
What is most telling is that the rabid anti-SNP press is ignoring the biggest anti-SNP scandal, ever.
Something is rotten in the state of Scotland
Surely it is time for the SNP MPs, with the integrity of Tommy Shepherd etc. to realise that they are doing the party, their country & themselves, a disservice, by not demanding answers, and bringing the Murrells’ private, unaccountable fiefdom to an end asap.
The silence from SNP HQ is now a deafening roar!
Oliver Mundell of all people picks up the “Just where is the Salmond info First Minister” baton…whodathunkit!
[…] Wings Over Scotland On no accounts Having been privileged to serve as SNP National Treasurer, I’m aware of the duties […]
@ Big Jock 0 at 10:02 am
You are not alone
Mention it on some of the Blogs and the National , and watch the black balls arrive and the writer being jettisoned
Why is it ONLY Kenny MacAskill and Joanna Cherry speaking up? Holyrood members are completely silent, so far as I know. Surely at least the 13 people leaving could summon up the nerve to start some action? Mike Russell, Linda Fabiani, Roseanne Cunningham?
George Kerevan, the SNP hasn’t campaigned for independence for several years now.
link to archive.is
Hatuey, it is true that “fuzzy math” can be employed in any accounting period to get to the numbers you want. However, In the longer term, it all comes back to one number- Cash at Bank and on Hand. This is especially so when we are talking about ring-fenced funds. If funds are truly ring-fenced, there is no hiding place. First, one needs to establish when funds were received by the organization and how much. Then it is simply a matter of looking at the accounts for any period after the funds were received and deducting the ring-fenced funds from cash balances to see what is left in reserve for other purposes. I suppose one could also include cash equivalents, but if there is too heavy a reliance on cash equivalents (ie, investments) I would question the prudence of those doing the investing.
Just to be clear, we do not need the 2019 accounts for this. Any year-end after the money (or the bulk of it) was raised will do.
It is worth mentioning that the ring-fenced money might be sitting in an accounting unit that does not have to be consolidated with central party accounts. I have no clue if this would be legal or not. I have lived in the USA for the past nineteen years. If that is where the funds are, the next question is “Where?” What is the accounting unit that holds the funds? I understand accounting but I know nothing on the specifics of political accounting in the U.K. I’d be surprised if it were not reportable by the other accounting unit.
The westminster system bequeathed to Scotland, in a quasi colonial manner, as a model of how to do democracy gives legitimacy only to political parties sitting in assemblies, all else is considered unorthodox.
Do we actually need to kowtow to such a system? Surely a popular movement dedicated to independence and its direct promotion through adroit anti-Union propaganda among the populace would be more productive and a more efficient use of resources? Especially as technology now renders door to door ‘canvasing’, mail shots, tv politics etc obsolete.
The SNP has had a good run. It fulfils its government brief as well as any political body is able but like such entities has become diverted by sectional interests, using social media, which are not germane to the founding principles.
Maybe we need to narrow the field, deep focus and sharpen on independence first and leave the special interests to find another medium to travel on.
Desimond – Oliver Mundell – Even a stopped clock is right ….at least once.
Murrell must be squirming. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in the Murrell’s house , when the Salmond verdict was read out.
If there is indeed funny business with the funds , then this aint going to end well.
Skip – If the indy fund is in situ.
Then why not dispel any rumours by declaring it!
Big Jock, you’d think that would be the simple, straightforward answer to this. Seemingly, politicians dislike answering questions about finances. Now that my TV is fixed, my wife and I saw the “presidential” debate last night. Both candidates had a chance to put lingering financial questions to bed by simply answering the question. They both acted offended when the very even-handed moderator asked them. It was not a good look for them and the SNP leadership’s reticence in this matter is the same.
It seems likely that: –
(1) A big chunk of the indy fund has been spent.
(2) Murrell is taking up to a third of the estimated £1m salary bill. Salary + generous pension contributions + benefits in kind (medical insurance etc).
(3) The big reduction in private donations to the SNP means that it is dependent on Westminster Short Money and MPs’ contributions.
Or perhaps they would like to publish the full details and prove otherwise.
The repressive régime currently operating to suppress Covid-19 disease began in a flood of sentimentality over the NHS, key workers, staying safe and doing your bit against the invisible enemy. It hasn’t worked so the pressure to eliminate normal human socializing, deemed the medium of transmission, is growing.
Like sin, this thing needs to be fought and wiped from the face of planet, no matter the cost. At that point sentimentality ends.
This has the smell of some quasi religious crusade. In Scotland, it is almost Knoxian in its earnestness.
To paraphrase G K Chesterton, when people cease to believe in religion they open themselves to believing in anything. In non religious Scotland and UK we appear to be at that point.
Praise whatever we have dedicated Covid-19 Finders General in Sturgeon and Johnson.
Makes you feel truly safe, doesn’t it?
The wage bill of Murrell and Ruddick who are CEO and COO respectively needs to be disclosed.
Anecdotal comment is that these two are costing the party around a third of a million pounds a year in wages and pension contributions. Big salaries most certainly it takes a lot of members dues to meet bills like that.
But who determined these levels of remuneration and in having determined them, is that why it is a secret. Time there was visibility, but you know what, unless and until we kick people like Murrell and his wife out, this type of thing will continue.
Jeepers, the controlling coterie in the SNP is more vicious, more greedy than New Labour. New Labour on Steroids more like.
Lets take our party back!
“Anecdotal comment is that these two are costing the party around a third of a million pounds a year in wages and pension contributions.”
That’s certainly the sort of ballpark I’m hearing from well-placed sources.
What I find significant about all this is why now??
Where the fuck have McAskill, Kereven et al been while this shitstorm has been brewing? The Rev and many others (including me) have been critical of the SNP leadership for years, but ‘big hitters’ within the party hierarchy have been silent until now…when it’s almost too late.
The sound of silence for years, except for the rustling of fat salaries being deposited into MP/Msp bank accounts. Now the ‘old guard ‘ are all bailing out, whilst Sturgeon parachutes every signal virtualling airhead into their places.
We are on the brink of disaster: political and economic emasculation and all we get is rats in a sack whining and pissing and pointing fingers. Salmond was nearly banged up first time round before the bleating belatedly began from these ‘insiders’.
Reading Craig Murray’s frightening account of the public crucifixion of Julian Assange by trial points me to concluding that the whole SNP top cabal are and have been completely compromised for a very long time. They are grabbing their gold
standard pension lifebelts and abandoning the ship, leaving the Scottish working people who have fought for their freedom abandoned and leaderless.
I don’t see a natural leader….and all movements need one…all the previous best ones are kaput..but we must act now , collectively and find that ‘someone’ who will emerge and who is brave enough , in face of Deep State blackmail, to wipe the slate clean and start again. Indy ain’t happening with this lot!
“What I find significant about all this is why now??
Where the fuck have McAskill, Kereven et al been while this shitstorm has been brewing?”
In fairness, Kerevan hasn’t been an MP for two and a half years and Kenny’s only been one for a few months.
As with the harassment inquiry, suppression of documents and of the truth leads people to draw their own conclusions.
Rumours gather pace, conspiracy theories multiply.
What can be so important to conceal, when the consequences of concealment are so damaging in themselves?
It must be very, very bad and, with every day that passes, it’s getting worse.
shiregirl says:
1 October, 2020 at 9:30 am
Its estimated that the HQ wage bill will be around £1 million, understandable with a staff of just over 20.
Wait. £50,000 per annum, approx per worker in SNP HQ?
Am I reading that wrong?
Whilst the figure puts the average salary quite high, it isn’t as high as it might initially seem. The wage bill will (should?) include employer contributions such as National Insurance and pension. That can easily add 60% to the top-line salary of an individual. However, I would expect the average to be closer to £40k, so there still seems to be something amiss (though note that we don’t know what the actual figure is, because we don’t know what ANY of the figures are!)
“However, I would expect the average to be closer to £40k, so there still seems to be something amiss”
AVERAGES, folks. If certain people were to be on very high salaries then with a workforce of only 20 it doesn’t take all that much to start dragging the averages up.
If you have a total staff of five and a total wage bill of £250K, then the average is £50K. But if one of those people is on £150K, then the other four are only getting £25K each – just half of the “average”.
I do not know why in the digital age political parties, charities etc accounts are not open and transparent in real time, with full disclosure of all bank, credit card accounts and cash being held daily.
Aside from the ring-fenced fund, presumably the accounts will indicate member numbers. Could that be another reason for reticence?
@ Rev: as a matter of some significance, do you know of any agitation being done by SNP MSPs on the subjects you, and many of us, are so concerned about – SNP discipline, NEC manipulation, FM obstruction of the Parliamentary enquiry etc etc?
“Aside from the ring-fenced fund, presumably the accounts will indicate member numbers.”
They don’t include membership numbers but they do include membership revenue, from which one can make a reasonable extrapolation. In the 2018 accounts, the most recent available, membership revenue was 20% lower than the 2015 figure, which would suggest that by that time they were perhaps down from the 125,000 peak to something more like 100,000 members.
Ottomanboi@11.49am
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
(Voltaire)
If you seriously believe that putting a non medical mask on to walk twenty feet to a table, taking the mask off and sitting there for two hours, then donning the mask again to walk twenty feet back to the door is not an absurdity, then there is no hope!
Roll on the atrocities….
Back to topic.
Mr MacAskill is conducting steady and measured campaign for openness at the top of the SNP, no doubt his legal background is important in his assessment in how far he can go and at what pace.
I am also disappointed that he appears to be a lone figure at present – however that may not be the case privately.
For those interested in Scotland’s future it makes grim but necessary watching.
“do you know of any agitation being done by SNP MSPs on the subjects you, and many of us, are so concerned about – SNP discipline, NEC manipulation, FM obstruction of the Parliamentary enquiry etc etc?”
I know of quite a few who’ve asked questions. I know of none who’ve had answers. The party hierarchy simply blanks any awkward enquiries.
@J Galt
Personally in nicola sturgeons Scotland I don’t think the mask wearing mandate is just going to go away, soon it will be wear the mask you don’t want the flu to kill granny do you.
@ Rev at 12.37: Well that is some encouragement. Perhaps they will tackle the individuals, or start party procedures of some kind.
It would also be helpful to have the “less than principled” candidates identified so ordinary members know who not to vote for in selection campaigns. We know about Rhiannon Spear and Josh Mennie but there’s a lot of others to look out for.
Desimond @ 10:54 “The silence from SNP HQ is now a deafening roar!
Oliver Mundell of all people picks up the “Just where is the Salmond info First Minister” baton…whodathunkit!”
Whoa there! The Munnell? Carrying a baton? Hahahahahahaha!
He deliberately got himself kicked out of the chamber to try and draw attention away from what his old man voted for the previous day IMHO.
I’m currently in Twitter jail after being ganged up on by the wokies for an innocuous tweet which I’m disputing with the Twitter police who are taking forever to adjudicate. So this is the only forum I have at the moment.
I’ve just been watching First Minister’s Questions and Nicola Sturgeon’s answers to questions about Peter Mussell’s alleged Whats App messages were shifty in the extreme. I’ve never seen her look so nervous and flustered before. Her excuse for not answering was because there was an ongoing police investigation yet the investigation isn’t into the messages, but who leaked them. It’s patently obvious to me that the messages are genuine and that the wagons have been circled.
This can’t go on for much longer, the whole Murrell, wokie, conspiracy circle is about to collapse and it’ll probably take Nicola Sturgeon with it.
A very bruising encounter for the FM at FMQs. Because of an apparent oversight, her defence, she has simply not been invited to the Harassment Inquiry. A police investigation into her husband. Parliament in uproar. Simply an unsustainable approach. As Campbell Gunn said on Scotland Tonight. Get the bad news out and take the hit. The country needs to move on.
@Andrew Morton –
Thanks for being the first to say it –
Ruth Davidson ‘won’ that FMQs.
First time, ever.
And that, in itself, speak volumes.
In Craig Murray’s lateest report on Day 21 of the Assange trial, he includes evidence from Noam Chomsky … this is only one of the quotes he uses … “Power remains strong when it remains in the dark. Exposed to sunlight it begins to evaporate.”
Apply that warning to your knowledge of documents NOT being exposed to sunlight in today’s Scotland.
Sarah says:
1 October, 2020 at 11:09 am
Why is it ONLY Kenny MacAskill and Joanna Cherry speaking up?
Possibly Sarah others aren’t so keen on speaking out but have tried to keep it internal – as all things used to be done, and which is a good rule to follow normally. As for the ones leaving, again old timers with more discipline, perhaps they feel they must wait to speak out after that?
Ottomanboi says:
1 October, 2020 at 11:49 am
Talking of GK Chesterton, he also said
‘The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes being corrected.’
‘We have submitted over 1000 pages of evidence and given over 10 hours of oral testimony.’
That has to be one of the limpest lines ever.
It should be made clear that the reason that Sturgeon has not been invited to give oral evidence to the committee yet is because the committee DOES NOT HAVE THE INFORMATION IT NEEDS to determine what questions to ask her.
She damn well knows this yet she uses the fact that she hasn’t been invited as a defence when, in fact, it is a symptom of the stonewalling.
She is truly disgusting at times.
Ottomanboi @ 11:49
Yeah, let’s all get religion and start praying. ROTFLMFAO.
I suppose any advance towards the (SPSO) Scottish Public Services Ombudsman, currently Rosemary Agnew, would be a complete waste of time?
The SPSO is responsible for dealing with complaints made about those providing public services including councils, the National Health Service, housing associations, the Scottish Government and its agencies and directorates, etc.
By the way, does anyone else remember the good old honourable days when Alex Salmond often referred himself to the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner to determine whether he had broken the Ministerial Code?
Funny how you never hear of Sturgeon doing that.
Because I had forgotten about this Daily Record article describing how she was basically told ‘she must agree to standards probe over Salmond meetings or face parliamentary inquiry’
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
“It would also be helpful to have the “less than principled” candidates identified so ordinary members know who not to vote for in selection campaigns”
That matter is in hand.
@Ian Brotherhood
Yeah, it pains me to say it but Davidson had Sturgeon on the ropes and going down for a count of ten.
I wonder how much of this is Sturgeon having to cover up for her husband’s behaviour and how much is down to her.
Would it be paranoid to suggest that her support for the wokies is all down to having a loyal group of acolytes who’ll do whatever she and Murrell want without question?
“I suppose any advance towards the (SPSO) Scottish Public Services Ombudsman, currently Rosemary Agnew, would be a complete waste of time?”
Yeah, the SPSO is a purely advisory body, it has no actual power.
Ok there is a problem with the accounts for 2019 the snp for some reason are holding back.my question is IF there is a problem with finances in the snp it couldn’t have just happened in 2019.unless there were large payments made in 2019 to persons that the snp wish to keep secret.The accounts for 2018 and back have not created this amount of interest.unless iv been living under a rock il admit I know nothing of the workings of finance.so as a finance virgin are we saying a lot of money including the ringfenced money has been siphoned off last year or this is a historical thing that the treasurer of the snp has failed to inform the members for a number of years ? If it is the later could that be construed as fraud ?.or is all this to embarrass the snp hierarchy.Sad to say all this bad stuff is on one road and that leads to Mr Murrells door.
Three or more years ago while I was still a member I asked Phillipa Whitford MP what SNP are doing with all the money pouring in from WM, the 100,000 plus members who had joined since 2014, and other appeals, to be fair she got back to me and said she had asked SNP HQ and they just ignored her, turns out it was not the first time she had been asked and gone on to ask HQ with the same result.
Andrew Morton says:
1 October, 2020 at 12:51 pm
I’m currently in Twitter jail after being ganged up on by the wokies for an innocuous tweet which I’m disputing with the Twitter police who are taking forever to adjudicate. So this is the only forum I have at the moment.
Aw poor you. Pity no other platforms seem to work out so well, with the many voices lost there.
Ian Brotherhood says:
1 October, 2020 at 12:53 pm
Yes, she’s starting to crack, the Spear rant was proof of it. It’s now way beyond time she tried to save the party and step down. Things being allowed to drag on this way are tortuous for more than just the leadership, but it should be their job to steer a way out of bad situations. If she can’t or won’t even do that for herself how can she for the independence movement of the country?
I missed the start of FMQs and when I turned it on Ruth Davidson was getting tore into Nicola Sturgeon about the Harassment and Complaints Committee . Nicola said she submitted her written evidence two months ago and it’s not been published yet and she’s willing to go in front of the committee when called .
If I remember correctly all the people and the Scottish Government who were contacted by the committee for evidence had to submit it by 4th August .
I presume that as the committee are still waiting on Peter Murrell’s further evidence and the further evidence from the Scottish Government as they had to write to both again after the lack of evidence that they submitted in the first place wasn’t enough then the committee will be able to gather it all together and decide from there who to call next to give evidence .
It will be interesting to read the written report from FMQS later on tonight when it’s published .
@ Rev at 1.02: Many thanks! That list will be essential.
Rumours doing the rounds Johnson could be away before Christmas.
Let’s make it a double and kick out our very own Unionist lapdog Sturgeon by the same time.
You couldn’t ask for a better Xmas present, no Johnson and no Sturgeon,,, Heaven!!!
The state of play in Scotland today. True story!
“Part-time linesman Douglas Ross overruling trained solicitor Liam Kerr and law professor Adam Tomkins” link to archive.is
Sarah says on 1 October, 2020 at 1:08 pm: “@ Rev at 1.02: Many thanks! That list will be essential.”
I second that! Much appreciated!
“too wee, too poor” New Caledonia (- what a curious name?) is having another crack at independence, the vote on Sunday.
– there is a (rather thin) piece on it in the Guardian (get it yourself)
reading between the lines, the french seem to have “played it straight” about it all, but the cynic in me notices – its a small territory, with no real wealth of any strategic importance to the french, and it is a long, long, way away, and if it “kicked off” the cost of policing the territory would far outway any benefit; the natives can bleed the french and play the long game. So, there are parallels and also anti-parallels, to our case.
link to twitter.com
Posted without comment… I didn’t see FMQ, but these comments don’t surprise me.
Mike Fenwick,
It is a fucking disgrace what is happening to Julian Assange.
The discovery channel good do a documentary about kangaroos in the Old Bailey.
Well after the conclusion of FMQs I am reminded of a documentary about the SNP and Alex Salmonds meteoric rise. The current deputy first minister John Swinney regaled a tale of how the men in grey kilts approached and asked Alex Salmond to be leader. So my message to the deputy FM now, dawn your grey kilt again, another change of leadership is required. We need to end this farce promptly.
I’m hoping Kenny’s article today and the poor preformance (by all accounts) of the FM this afternoon in Holyrood will simply increase the pressure until the dam bursts, but we are running out of time. It may well be that the disappeared money is one of the main reasons for the FM dragging her feet on independence.
2021 could see the end of democracy in Scotland while our “leadership” is paralysed by adopting a secretive siege mentality.
@Ian B 10.25: re the adored, supposed Calculating Machine that was C. Vorderman, she only got a third-class degree at Yooni but since it was from Cambridge, that was no impediment to a career.
@Polly –
NS looked like she knows the ball is well and truly on the slates.
When it was Richard Leonard’s turn the camera showed NS sitting there – whatever she was thinking about, it wasn’t what Leonard was asking. She looks hunted.
Haven’t really being keeping track of the timeline however was wondering if the missing funds and attacks on Salmond were around about the same time.
At the risk of sounding vindictive towards Nicola Sturgeon, which I truly don’t want to be, I feel that this is probably the first time she has come up against genuine political challenges and it seems she isn’t coping very well.
On the one hand, an awful lot of people in her party and wider movement are raging over all this weird skulduggery. The penny is finally starting to drop.
On the other hand, her most vociferous opponents among the general public have been Billy McHun and Hugo Innes-Kerr; not exactly people you encounter much of in the trendier parts of Scotland. However, the recent restrictions on students and the hospitality industry are causing real anger among towards “her” among young urban people.
Is this Acuity Training’s One-Man Band?
A materials science student at Cambridge
A venture capitalist and investment banker
link to thesourcecad.com
link to trainingjournal.com
I guess Nicola Sturgeon didn’t get the memo about being a servant leader
Covid- 19 fatigue is setting in with the youth demographic! That’s dangerous. They are 72% yes. Could be very damaging if they get so peed off they don’t bother voting at the next election.
Nicola would do well to heed previous advice and let Freeman take over the briefings. I don’t listen to them anymore. I just read the snippets on the news.
However I actually believe that Murrell will have to resign in a few weeks. He will go before something illegal might be uncovered.
Took a little trip to ayrshire yesterday, went through Irvine, Nicola Sturgeon country, must say its hard to believe this Irvine lassie has turned out to be such a big disappointment to me
She may get back to her roots eventually but it will not be as leader of the SNP
Sorry Nicola its time for you to step aside and let democracy back to where it belongs, with the people who believed you where one of us, your husband by the way is nothing more than a money grabbing waste of space, why don’t you divorce that clown and get a real man of Scotland
And no, I am spoken for, so you can look somewhere else lol
Baroness Colonel (T)Ruthless clearly won today’s FMQ exchanges.
|That was significant in itself, but, for me, more-significant was the background chatter when Nicola Sturgeon was responding. At times it was almost as bad as when Blackford is on his feet at WEstminster.
To me that is the first sign, Mrs Murrell is a “Dead Woman Walking<" she cannot survive long.
When even an oxygen stealer like Jacqui Baillie can discomfort her, the Glorious Leader is in bother.
Dave Somerville@1.12pm
Be careful what you wish for – Gove is Johnson, but with brains.
Who is going to be questioned first?
Sturgeon, Murrell……or Prince Andrew?
The accountability of public bodies and public servants has been under methodological attack since Thatcher, as the radical right seek to bring about a ‘new-normal’ that is openly hostile towards Common law reasoning and the justice of the Natural law tradition. Neo-liberalism is simply incompatible with ethical government, and the SNP are more than a tad Tory in their political and legal stance. That’s why we’ll need to beat the neo-liberalism out of them before we’ll ever enjoy the benefits of democracy.
The Development of European Standards on Political Parties and their Regulation
link to core.ac.uk
Never been on twitter, when that that king of the twits Stephen Fry endorses anything you know to keep clear of it
Cameron, your correct it most of what you write, I don’t need to read your comments as I was allready one of the converted as I came across it all over the years and I did learn a lot about common law from a young guy on youtube, who is in Glasgow now, but originally from Greenock
And he fights the scottish legal system all the way, even though they have tried numerous times to lock him up for standing up for himself, he is a guy that makes you proud to be scottish
BTW – The more I read those phone messages. The more angry I am. I think everyone should be.
[…] Thanks to the Courtesy of : link to wingsoverscotland.com […]
Gove is far worse than Boris.
He is an old fashioned English Nationalist. He is up there with the worst of them. Yes I do know he was born in Scotland, but he isn’t a Scot.
David Caledonia
I’m honestly not trying to hurt the party, I’m trying to help them and us. The British constitution is a Common law contract outlining the legal boundaries of a political agreement between two equal sovereign nation states. Westminster simply has us convinced the constitution is a source of obligatory legal authority, and that Westminster is not bound by the Common law. They are relying on the depth of our psychological conditioning to voluntarily disregard the Moral law, which would be inescapably undemocratic and unhealthy. So that should keep the Tories happy anyway. 🙁
The Cambridge Companion to the Scottish Enlightenment
11 – Legal Theory in the Scottish Enlightenment
link to cambridge.org
Scots Law only lost its’ respect for the Natural law through its’ subourdination to the English cultural principle of Parliamentary sovereignty. So Scots law and culture will never flourish under legal conditions that are hostile towards the Natural law, and the universal principle of equality in law.
Philosophy, Rights and Natural Law
Essays in Honour of Knud Haakonssen
link to edinburghuniversitypress.com
As an aside isn’t it a fact that some of the best communicators in the world turn out to be fleecing you at every turn. I think the term is con men.
“ John Jones @0922 a.m.” . I was under the impression that Bojo was planning this for himself on Jan 1st 2021 ?
Just a reminder of the alleged Murrell texts.
link to twitter.com
The pressures definitely building on Sturgeon, especially with her terse reply to a question on the alleged WhatsApp question, surrounding her husband Murrell.
Meanwhile disgraced former SNP Finance minster Derek Mackay is taking the piss with the Scottish taxpayer.
link to twitter.com
@Bob Mack says:
1 October, 2020 at 2:51 pm
“As an aside isn’t it a fact that some of the best communicators in the world turn out to be fleecing you at every turn. I think the term is con men.”
I’ve trained people in public speaking. A fair proportion of good ones work in sales. Same as for politicians I suppose, convince you that night is day and charge you for the privilege.
O/T – top tip for today – when wearing trackies at home make sure they are the right bloody way round…
The Den of Iniquity to take a week long break.
link to thenational.scot
Is it just me or has Sturgeon done something to her Twitter account. It just keeps saying try again no matter how many times you refresh it.
link to twitter.com
Bob, I’ve found people in general are either good with words or good with numbers, some few are good at both and some are good at neither.
In my own experience, the people that are good with numbers tended to be the more reliable and trustworthy.
Republicofscotland says:
1 October, 2020 at 3:05 pm
Just tried it and got the same. Is she away composing her resignation tweet?
“Just tried it and got the same. Is she away composing her resignation tweet?”
Wee Chid, yeah somethings going on, she was really rattled today in the chamber, could be the walls are beginning to close in on her, and Murrell.
Wee Chid looks like its back up again, so no resignation letter I’m afraid.
It’s working again – no resignation – yet!
Apparently Twitter is temporarily broken for everyone.
As much as I would like to see the ones behind the vendetta against Alex being strung up from the nearest tree , Particularly anyone in the top management of the SNP .
I feel a bit uncomfortable joining in along side anyone in the Scabby Tory party putting the boot in and sharing their Glee about Nicola Sturgeons discomfort just now ,
Like it or not she has a role to play and appears to be widely known and accepted by a lot of the people in Scotland , chopping her head off at this time in my opinion ain’t a clever move , and with all due respect assisting any Unionist would be like kneeing ourselves in the Nuts ,
Ok everyone wants justice and probably revenge , and as the saying goes on revenge ” a dish best served cold ” There will be time , right now there are more pressing matters to attend to , and a bit of sugar will get better results than a whole shovel full of Shit or a cupful of vitriol .
O/T:
I gather that that Liam Fox has been put forward for the role of World Trade Organisation Director General.
Is this a Westminster attempt to get in there and change all the rules in their favour? Whatever the case, I think this is something we should be hoping doesn’t come to pass because I highly doubt it can be anything but an attempt to direct WTO rules in this particular batch of Tories’ preferred direction.
Robert Graham @ 3:25pm:
No. We either want clean politics for Scotland or we don’t.
If something bad has gone on here, we cannot go ‘ah well, the Tories are having a go at her for it, so I don’t want it to be fixed because it must benefit them to do so’. That’s ‘politics is like football teams’ behaviour.
This is no way to get to a ‘better politics’ for an independent Scotland; it is instead to build it on grubbiness and bad behaviour.
If it’s right to do something, it’s right to do it. No matter whether some Tories, for their own reasons or not, are pushing in the same direction.
Republic of Scotland @ 3:05pm:
There was something wrong generally; it was saying ‘Twitter is over capacity. Try again in a few seconds’.
Breastplate
I’m find arithmetic a doddle but couldn’t get past ‘O’ grade maths, so what do you think that might suggest about me? 🙂
Very good article, proper questions that should never have been needed to be asked.
Given the venue for the hard questions put to NS – it will be interesting to see if the MSM pile in – it could just have been a ‘shot across the bows’ to keep her on track.
If the MSM go full Tonto on her – then the games afoot.
If Boris goes Dec/January time – does that instigate another GE? Anyone know.
Polling – the 2 q’s I want answers to just now are:
How aware are the Scottish Electorate about the destruction of Devolution currently underway
How would they feel about S30 order procedures being binned and a Hoyrood Plebiscite election on some process of Indy being put on the manifesto.
Re upthread comments on FMQs.
There is no way that Davidson “won” the exchange with the FM. That is just laughable.
There is evidence which can’t be provided for legal reasons. The FM made it clear that the Scottish Government had instigated legal proceedings asking the Court to allow the Government to provide that material to the Committee. The Convenor of the Committee has since also written to the Court to obtain that evidence.
The FM also provided substantial written evidence to the Committee 2 months ago within the deadline requested. Further information requested by the Committee was also provided by her timeously (although the committee had not set a deadline for receipt of that information). None of this has been published, as the Committee are the only ones that can publish it.
She said she stands ready to give oral evidence any day and offered to give evidence today if the Committee would ask her – so far they haven’t.
She was very composed, if a bit frustrated, and looked her normal self. Davidson looked out of her depth, also normal for her.
Someone also said upthread that the FM wouldn’t refer herself to standards committee – she did in the middle of January 2019 regarding the Salmond case. This was widely reported in the media and is still available if those interested want to google it.
And another thing – for those who use the phrase ‘I never left Labour, Labour left me’ – has there been any analysis done re that as to where, when, who and how it left – and the part the supporters played (unwillingly) in facilitating its demise.
To me, from the outside, it looked like the staunch blind loyalty was weaponised and used against itself.
Perhaps there is some literature that evidences it? Anyone know.
AC Bruce @ 3:36pm:
How do you know if the written evidence was ‘substantial’? Have you seen it?
Even if there are a lot of pages (?), it might be waffle. Perhaps the Committee has reason to believe there are significant omissions?
I will say that I am only raising possibilities because I don’t know. But I don’t think you do, either.
Rule it IN maybe not … but given all that is happening don’t also rule it out if you want an election this side of January.
There is no term of office for a First Minister; he or she holds office “at Her Majesty’s pleasure”.
In practice, however, a First Minister cannot remain in office against the will of the Scottish Parliament;
indeed, the Scotland Act explicitly requires the First Minister to either resign or seek a parliamentary dissolution (and with it, new elections) if his or her government “no longer enjoys the confidence of the Parliament.”
“How do you know if the written evidence was ‘substantial’? Have you seen it?
Even if there are a lot of pages (?), it might be waffle. Perhaps the Committee has reason to believe there are significant omissions?
I will say that I am only raising possibilities because I don’t know. But I don’t think you do, either.”
Her words.
AC Bruce @ 3:37pm:
So she’s says it ‘substantial’ so you accept it is, with no other evidence to support that?
FFS.
I wouldn’t be surprised if, and it’s a big “if”, we do get a resignation letter (or tweet) it does not begin
“We, and by that I mean my husband and I…… “
“So she’s says it ‘substantial’ so you accept it is, with no other evidence to support that?
FFS.”
Aye FFS is right!
My original post made it clear that none of her written evidence has, as yet, been published by the Committee. It might be “waffle” or it might be “substantial”. Without being able to read it no one can say. Only the Committee can publish evidence.
AC Bruce, i disagree for the first time ever The Tank Commander got the better of the exchange.
Sturgeon was flustered and even looked red in the face at one point. She only got back to her normal self once she started talking about something she is comfortable with -Covid.
The question has to be asked, Several months ago after Sturgeon stood up in Parliament and promised full disclosure of all documents and information relating to the failed conspiracy to fit up Alec Salmond , why did they not then start the legal process asking to share evidence with the enquiry?
Surely amongst the highly paid employee’s of the SNP or the Government Someone would have realised that there would be a legal impediment to their release?
Mind you planning for the future does not seem to be the strong point of those currently leading the SNP!
CameronB Brodie says:
1 October, 2020 at 3:33 pm
Breastplate
“I’m find arithmetic a doddle but couldn’t get past ‘O’ grade maths, so what do you think that might suggest about me? ?”
Me too – it was algebra and trigonometry that flummoxed me. I don’t even know if Arithmetic and maths are treated as separate subjects any more – or if it is all just “numeracy”.
R Graham @3:25
“Chopping her head off at this time in my opinion ain’t a clever move , and with all due respect assisting any Unionist would be like kneeing ourselves in the Nuts”.
AND WHO IS IT WHOSE BEHAVIOUR IS ASSISTING THE UNIONIST SIDE???
Is it the SNP footsoldier?
Is it your average Yes supporter?
Is it sites like WoS who report and opine about the facts as they stand, with supporting evidence?
Is it the frustrated Indy supporter who, in increasing numbers, express frustration at the direction, priorities and (mis)management of the principal pro-Indy party in Scotland?
OR IS IT THE STURGEON/MURRELL DOUBLE-ACT AND THEIR WOKERATI ACOLYTES IN THE NEC? COUPLED WITH QUESTIONABLE DECISIONS ON THE PART OF THE UK CIVIL SERVICE AND COPFS?
Whose actions Robert? Whose???
“…why did they not then start the legal process asking to share evidence with the enquiry?”
The Committee would have to set out what evidence it required before a request can be made to the Court for permission to release it to the Inquiry, is probably the answer to that.
As for her being flustered, no way and no way is she going to be tendering her resignation soon – if at all – certainly not based on what has become public so far or her performance this afternoon at FMQs.
There is, however, still the possibility that other stuff enters the public domain which may change that (or maybe not).
AC Bruce @ 3:52pm:
But you’ve argued that, off the basis of her words, this means she has ‘won’ the debate and perhaps she has won the battle of rhetoric (this is usually a matter of opinion).
However, since you agree that we cannot actually know whether the evidence is ‘substantial’ or whether any of the other evidence answers all questions fully or not, then we are in no position to determine whether we really ought to be impressed by what she said at all and that’s the actual substance of the matter not who’s better at speaking.
“There is evidence which can’t be provided for legal reasons. The FM made it clear that the Scottish Government had instigated legal proceedings asking the Court to allow the Government to provide that material to the Committee. The Convenor of the Committee has since also written to the Court to obtain that evidence.
The FM also provided substantial written evidence to the Committee 2 months ago within the deadline requested. Further information requested by the Committee was also provided by her timeously (although the committee had not set a deadline for receipt of that information). None of this has been published, as the Committee are the only ones that can publish it.
She said she stands ready to give oral evidence any day and offered to give evidence today if the Committee would ask her – so far they haven’t.”
I’m sorry, this is complete shite.
(1) There are absolutely no legal issues preventing the SG from disclosing its legal advice about the Salmond allegations to the committee. That is purely a matter of choice. The general convention is that it remains confidential but the SG has revealed such advice on many prior occasions and is perfectly legally able to do so again if it wishes to. It does not wish to, despite having promised to give the inquiry anything it asked for.
(2) The same applies to all the other documents that have been refused. The only evidence subject to legal restrictions is the original investigation report which was struck down by Lord Pentland for being unlawful and biased. The committee HAS NOT ASKED for this report, but the SG is trying to submit it anyway because they think it’ll reflect badly on Salmond when it gets into the media (because it’s unlawful and biased).
(3) Sturgeon has not been asked to appear before the committee yet because they do not have the documents necessary to question her, because the SG is refusing to produce them.
The Salmond stuff is disgraceful, the disappearance of the indyref money despicable, the targeting of people like Murray and Manny disturbing, etc., etc., but the thing that sticks in my craw most was her decision from the start to shun the Yes movement and grassroots.
Think of all those millions of ordinary people who invested so much hope in her, only to be shunned and now it seems fleeced. There was never a chance in hell that she was going to fight for independence either.
Those people have been totally violated. It’s truly shameful.
In the next few days you’re going to see her lampooned from all angles, if she doesn’t resign first. There’s much more to come, on a variety of subjects.
The choice for her is simple: go now and give people a chance to fix things before the election or destroy everything. There’s no third way here.
She will, of course, choose to go. Not to give us a chance or help, but because it’s the least painful and easiest way out.
And that’s all why it’s time for us to prepare for her imminent departure and get ready to fight like our lives depend on it for independence, with a new SNP leadership team in place and a whole new way of dealing with Westminster.
If you’re involved at an organisational level, get planning and get ready. This could be the last chance Scotland ever gets to be independent. We need to throw all our energy and support behind whoever replaces Sturgeon and prepare to fight.
The hand of history is raised and reaching for Scotland’s shoulder.
It matters not how much written evidence Ms Sturgeon has given because it is clear that it is not substantial enough for the committee to draw any conclusions. Ms Sturgeon answered the question in Parliament in the first person. People who have already attended the committee have all affirmed that they are giving evidence on behalf of ministers and not in a personal capacity and so I assume the Ms Sturgeon is bound by the same obligation. This means the any obstruction in presenting papers to the committee on behalf of the Government is in the hands of Nicola Sturgeon and no one else. At the very least, she is being tight-lipped with the truth
“The Committee would have to set out what evidence it required before a request can be made to the Court for permission to release it to the Inquiry, is probably the answer to that.”
The committee has not asked for the material in question. It doesn’t want it.
Johnny Martin @ 4.03 pm
It wasn’t about “who’s better at speaking”. It is about the substance of what she said:
She has provided written evidence to Committee when requested.
She is ready to provide oral evidence but has not been asked by Committee to appear yet but she offered give the evidence this very day.
Her Govt officials have also provided 1,000 pages of evidence presumably material asked for by the Committee and provided 10 hours of oral evidence so far.
Her Govt has also asked the Court for permission to provide evidence that the Court has not – so far – given permission to be released.
This is not someone ‘obstructing’ the Committee.
“ Daisy Walker@ 0335” . I doubt very much any possibility of GE when/if Bojo goes early next year . The Tories will have their usual “ mini coup” ( as per May when she “ emerged”). The “ mission” given to Bojo by his political & financial masters was “ get us out of the EU at ANY cost ) . May was given the same instruction ( she failed) . Boris will have achieved “ his mission” on Jan 1st and I doubt very much if he will have “ much enthusiasm “ or inclination to remain . His reward will be the usual “ Title” & House of Lords “ retirement home” for unionists. Thereafter , further down the line perhaps the Tories ( and their usual propaganda outlets) will “ decide “ that “ Sir Keir and his reserve 2nd eleven unionist cabal can Start “ clearing up the “ Brexit / Covid mess” and the inevitable “ broken economy” . Possibly time for the Tories to take a “ back seat and go on holiday “ . I am sure this would suit Bojo and the Eton cabal eminently? Job done . Out of the EU .
Ok Stuart. Noted.
@Hatuey,
I agree with your comments. I wanted to draw the analogy with the current FM position and that of Alex Salmond. He resigned and I for one was shocked at the time. Straight after the Referendum. A courageous, admirable resignation. Nobody likes to see the demise of a political career. I hope the current FM realises the ba is burst and no one player is greater than the team. I would rather she resigned with grace and wasn’t forced out in. She needs the advice of her real friends just now.
The tories will love this being dragged out for as long as possible so it detracts from the ongoing colonisation. The media will oblige.
So what info has the Convenor written to the Court about?
Davidson said the Convenor had done so.
Oh and it’s not “my shite”
I watched FMQs. If it’s shite, it’s the FMs!
AC Bruce:
You must be a Celtic supporter, to have so-little recognition of reality.
OK, it may well be a first, but, The Baroness handed Mrs Murrell her erse on a platter today.
The FM was flustered, red-faced, on the back foot throughout and clearly floundering.
If the SCALP were capable of mounting a united front, and had capable front-line troops, the SNP would be in real bother over the SAlmond fit-up.
However, the poor qualify of the opposition just might help them survive.
However, I believe Mrs Murrell is damaged goods and urgent replacement is required by the SNP; to give the new leader time to bed-in before the 2021 Holyrood Election and, hopefully, the accompanying Referendum.
Watch Sturgeon’s body language & listen to the high pitch of her voice – a sure sign of stress – she can’t bare to look at Davidson in the eye. Instead looks to the presiding officer for moral/emotional support. Very revealing.
@Hatuey,
I hope I am wrong but I am afraid that she (and he) will have to be dragged out of office kicking and screaming.
For I suspect that they have been trying to find an exit strategy for 18 – 24 months but have been unable to identify one that leaves them in the clear.
This regime is so secretive and controlling that it is surely beyond reason to think that the very little that is emerging now is the end of it.
Corruption is insidious. It hardly ever exists as a one-off occurrence.
There will be sweeping high street bank closures and job losses by the Scotland based, but Spanish owned, TSB. The supposedly ‘nationalist’ National online being preoccupied with Sturgeon’s pet virus stats, that is seemingly not of concern.
Time attention was focused on Scotland’s shrinking economy.
Or is that of no concern either?
What kind of Scotland are ‘our leaders’ offering to young Scots?
Wee Chid
Same here, algebra, trigonometry and calculus were all totally Greek to me. Where as they are actually Persian, Mesopotamian/Indian, and Italian/English, I think. 😉
@Andrew F says:
1 October, 2020 at 3:17 pm
“Apparently Twitter is temporarily broken for everyone.”
Virgin Media has had network issues today, so that may have caused a few problems.
@A C Bruce –
The FM’s offer to appear before the committee next week, today, or whenever else is sheer bluster, and mischievous at that.
It’s for the committee to decide who they want to call, and when, and they should not be deflected by anyone trying to grandstand or select a time most beneficial for themselves.
Can you genuinely not see why it would be advantageous for NS to appear before the committee in person *before* they’ve received the evidence they asked her husband to provide (on Sept 9th?!)
Under no circumstances should Linda Fabiani let her bluff be called on this – Peter ‘MIA’ Murrell has to be dealt with first, preferably in person.
“OK, it may well be a first, but, The Baroness handed Mrs Murrell her erse on a platter today.
The FM was flustered, red-faced, on the back foot throughout and clearly floundering.”
I don’t agree.
What is “Celtic”?
@Tannadice Boy says:
1 October, 2020 at 4:15 pm
“I would rather she resigned with grace and wasn’t forced out in. She needs the advice of her real friends just now.”
Problem is, Swinney would have to assume the role of the First Minister, much good that will do.
No, she’s here to stay I’m afraid.
Socrates, I agree with you, but what sword is there for her to fall on that the general public will understand?
@Skip_NC 4:33
The only way out which will give a ‘good’ outcome is for all concerned to agree that Peter Murrell. must step down, taking the blame for the whole Salmond fiasco. In addition she must agree to the wholesale cleansing and reformation of the NEC and the ejection of the toxic woke brigade. She can do a token ‘mea culpa’ and stay on until a discreet transfer of power can take place with a suitable candidate like Joanna Cherry.
@Beaker
I think Swinney will do as an interim leader until a leadership contest is arranged. There are plenty of SNP MPs in WM that will refresh the leadership page and restore confidence. After all if it is good enough for Douglas Ross. The NEC will need to change the rules so an MP can stand in May. Any leader that has to deal with Covid has had a punishing time. And there is your sword. Retiring to spend more time with Peter.
“The FM’s offer to appear before the committee next week, today, or whenever else …”
She said she was ready to give oral evidence when the Committee was ready to ask her for it. That was her answer to baiting from Davidson – apparently, signalling to her that she has nothing to hide. Whether she has, or not, I haven’t got the foggiest as I don’t have any inside information. None of these characters are known to me. I’m probably like the vast majority of people who are taking an interest in this scandal, trying to make sense of what I see and hear. She looked as if she was telling the truth.
It didn’t look like mischief making.
She can also be recalled by the Committee if needed to answer further questions if more evidence comes to light, surely? Her appearance before the Committee won’t necessarily be a one-time gig.
Call me a cynic, but I doubt that the accounts will be produced before the virtual conference and the voting in of NEC members etc.
CBB,
Having met you, I’m quite sure I could trust you with password to my piggy bank and not because it is empty you understand 😉
It’s funny seeing people grapple needlessly with the question of ‘will she or won’t she go?’
And startling to see some apparently intelligent people suggest she might cling on and weather this storm…
Take my word for it, there is no question or any chance for her. All is lost.
You are thinking too much if you think this is survivable.
My advice is to go and have a cup of tea and think about the seriousness of the allegations that Sturgeon faces right now. They aren’t going away. Ignoring them just makes everything worse.
If only Machiavelli included a chapter on what Princes and Princesses might do when the people find out what sort of bastards they have been.
We’re all laughing now but it is serious: is NS involved, and if so what to do?
Breastplate 🙂
Nicola sounded like guilty person flapping.
Liars will say whatever they can when cornered. Her body language was defensive throughout.
A C Bruce says:
1 October, 2020 at 5:02 pm
“….She looked as if she was telling the truth.
That wasn’t the impression I got. I thought she looked guilty as sin, ducking a question which was quite straight forward to answer. Were the leaked comments genuine?
She’ll answer any question, … but that one’s under investigation. (The leak is, but the authenticity of the texts isn’t).
She’ll answer any question, … except that particular one.
She’ll answer any question, … if the Committee asks her, (Holyrood asking questions can go whistle).
She’ll answer any question, … but the Committee hasn’t asked.
She’ll answer any question, … but there’s no need because she’s already supplied 1000 pages of “stuff”.
She’ll answer any question, … except questions she’d rather Peter Murrell was asked himself.
Maybe I grew up watching too many cop dramas, but frankly, I think she’s bluffing. Sturgeon is dreading going before the Committee, because she has a guilty conscience that will be very difficult to hide under scrutiny. Today she was only asked whether the texts were genuine, and she looked thoroughly rattled and forced into in full defence mode by the innocuous opening question.
But hey… who knows? People will see different things.
Guessing I’m a bigger idiot today than yesterday or the day before but on no account could our unelected Baroness elect be said to have won FM Qs this afternoon since, after a good opening defence of Ollie Mundell’s observation that the Scottish government’s obfuscation had made lies of the FMs honest intent, she managed to veer way, way, off piste, and instead of following up the erroneous legal privilege defence, threw up an easy, albeit entirely inappropriate question (which the speaker might better have taken issue with than yesterday’s mini drama).
Also odd is the revelation that the harassment committee want, on no account, to see the report that led to collapse of the judicial enquiry and, stranger yet, that it needs to apply to the court to have sight of documents – when it is specifically the procedures of the court and the civil service that are supposed to be being investigated!
In that regard, and given revelations elsewhere, perhaps its time the members take a moment of reflection to redefine its objectives and ensure the committee has not been contaminated by contempt of the type Mr Tomkins is reported to have associated himself with (when conducting due diligence for the Hate Crime bill committee), vis:
“Let’s make the Nats look unreasonable and dogmatic “
Also your husband is accused of sending a whatsapp message. What wife doesn’t ask her husband whether he sent it.
Simple answer. No I asked Peter and he said absolutely not. Instead we get deflection about who released it.
This is the woman who phoned Mckay at 3am to ask about his Facebook messages, then sacked him at 9.30 am.
Yet her husband is accused of worse, and she has never asked him.
re. Prof. Tomkins. Scotland’s democracy and judicial system is beset by slimy and unprincipled individuals.
The Social Consequences of Common Law Rules
link to core.ac.uk
This has the potential to be disempowering if allowed to run its course.
In the words of Noam Chomsky…
“One device to control the population is to operate in secret so that the ingnorant and meddlesome outsideers will stay in their place, remote from the levers of power which are none of their business.”
Breeks @ 5.52 pm
I would be pretty damned angry if Davidson asked me to account for something allegedly written by my partner. The FM was quite right to point out that any questions on whether or not he wrote them should be directed to him. That’s not guilt and it’s not evading questions. He would, for example, be expected to answer on his own behalf in a Court of law – not to answer via a proxy.
They might be married to each other but they’re not conjoined twins and presumably – but who knows for sure in close relationships – she doesn’t snoop into his mobile!
She’s a lawyer. Anything that involves a Police investigation gets a non committal reply. Quite rightly, in my view. No one should be interfering in ongoing Police investigations.
Skip_NC
You asked: “but what sword is there for her to fall on that the general public will understand?”
There is always the Lord Carrington option. This is widely held to have been the last honourable resignation in UK politics, when, after the Argentinians had invaded South Georgia and The Falklands Lord Carrington, as Foreign Secretary, resigned – because it happened on his watch and he felt the buck stopped with him.
The buck stops with Nicola Sturgeon in the current situation, therefore, if she does the honourable thing and resigns as FM and Leader of the Party, she goes with some credit/honour.
I do not, somehow, think she will do this.
@Stuart McTavish,
The Committee chair who can control that agenda is SNP.She too is unhappy about the obsfucation.
Watched the FM clip.
NS didn’t look guilty so much as angry to me.
Unlike in the Wark interview.
Sounded like NS was saying Mr Murrell is a big boy and should answer for himself.
Which I would imagine he will have to.
@A.C. Bruce,
You can indeed be asked if you had acknowledge of your partner’s actions in court of law. It is admissible evidence.
Agreed about Lord Carington. However, that was a pretty clear case and something the non-political classes could grasp. Now, I’m writing this from 3,000 miles away, but I just don’t see what good reason could be given for her resignation, other than Tannadice Boy’s thought at 4:50pm.
To be clear, I agree she needs to go, but if she is popular (is she?) because of her COVID-19 response, does that create a problem for the next leader?
Bob Mack @ 6.10 pm
Yes, I’m sure that is the case. Someone could be asked about their partner’s actions. However, in the first instance her husband would be required to answer on his own behalf as to whether he wrote the messages or not; the wife would not be allowed to answer ‘for’ him – that is what I meant but perhaps I was not clear enough.
C’mon defenders of Sturgeon.
Murrell is the head boy of the SNP. This is not the FMs husband who works in a bank.
They are number 1 and number 2 in the SNP. Your damn right they need to know what each other is doing.
Does anyone seriously think they didn’t talk about the messages.
Enough of The Little House on The Prairie shit.
“Does anyone seriously think they didn’t talk about the messages.”
Do the messages exist? Has it been categorically proved that Murrell wrote them?
All well and good, but…
What happens now? What’s anybody going to do about it?
All the Murrells have to do, is do and say nothing.
I’d bet that 90% of the SNP membership have no idea about Wings or what is discussed here, so there’s next to no chance of a party rebellion or a mass resignation of party membership.
@A.C. Bruce,
Your beginning to sound a tad desperate.
If they don’t exist. Why does Sturgeon not just say it. It was all over the press. She knows the details of the messages.
Wait are you telling me that if a newspaper wrote about my texts in a criminal investigation. That my wife wouldn’t want to know about them?
Am I living in a parallel universe. Has reason completely left some people.
@Mist001,
That depends on how many MPs turn on her.
I realise that there is a lot of NS antipathy, which I understand but at the same time I am aware that the divisiveness is also troubling.A crumbling movement is not likely to succeed in its objective.
So huge, detailed preparation and planning is necessary.
I know there are many ongoing discussion about what it would mean to achieve independence(currency/the political levers of an economy linked to financial institutions, government structure, civil institutions and organisations ready for the demands of a functioning country,, realistic policy objectives and plans to achieve some of these things,the creation of a constitution within the context of a functioning democracy, but these are largely in the domain of, admittedly, well informed and often very able amateurs at some remove from the heart of potential power.
What struck me as I contemplated this kind of stuff is that NS is essentially a lightweight. OK she can be a talented operator but she has adopted the role of P.A/functionary. to someone else who doesn’t actually exist. Someone with the intellectual heft and strength of character to carry this big visionary task to completion.If NS was serious she would have declared the need for a wide ranging public discourse, energising across the entire country.She is certainly a beezer of a PA, in control of the diary, and able to exerts SOME modest authority but mostly over a group of sycophantic careerists.She really does not exude the kind of confidence required for a national leader.She is timid and risk averse. Covid has been a task that a deputy should have carried out. She is like a bird engaged in a displacement acivity, Peckin obsessively at where there was once some grain.She has behaved like a deputy- a busybody-a gossip-a wheedler. Organisations need that kind of ‘organisational’ flair but NS lacks strategic acumen and drive. The way matters regarding the accounts and the AS affair indicate a lot about her.No serious leader of a country would I suspect it is more to do with her being in effect, appointed to her role (a mistake) and not having gone through a bruising test of her political mettle.AS had some of that stuff but one senses that he has been broken by the 2014 disappointment and the crazy vindictive plotting regarding the court case.
@Big Jock.
Not just his wife but his boss as well.!!
So what is the latest count…
Nicola’s inner circle
Nicola’s right hand woman
Nicola’ right hand civil servant
Nicola’s husband and CEO of the SNP…
But STILL some of you clowns are still arguing she is not involved.
Ooooh man stop, ma sides…
I think Salmond was poised to come back until 2017, when Sturgeon fucked up the election. That’s why they wanted rid of him.
He saw that she wasn’t going to deliver. So he would have forced her to act or step aside. Trust me that Murrell is a nasty piece of work.
Pleaseexcuse typos and deleted bits above.On my laptop the comment box is tiny with teeny weeny letters/font size, making it difficult to spot editing errors and easy to miss errors
TBH I don’t give a rats arse whether she goes with dignity (hopefully not) she has and is by her misadventures destroying the dreams and beliefs of thousands of Scottish citizens, SO much for a fairer, honest more socially caring and empathetic government, SHE and her coterie by their selfish aggrandising fake attempts at being world leaders in progressiveness have stalled and undermined our NECESSITY to be an independent country
ALL the people talking about whether or not to vote SNP at May 2021 HR elections, WHAT HR elections,the EU spokesperson at her announcement that the EU were taking the uk to court mentioned that the IMB was breaching the treaty agreed to protect the GFA and that was being challenged as an unlawful act against international treaties
Joanna Cherry stated categorically in the HOC that the IMB breached the TOU and others have confirmed that that is indeed the case , SO if that is indeed the case WTAF are NS and the SG doing about it, WHY are we even HESITATING on this, why are we listening to WM , the SG have the ability to RENDER the union dissolved
WE MUST FORCE this issue we must FORCE the SG to PROTECT SCOTLAND, FUCK the HR election make WM challenge us in the international court
One wonders what the recipient(s?) of the e-mail might be thinking as this unfolds? Particularly if the police come knocking to see where the leak came from?
“Your beginning to sound a tad desperate”.
No, I don’t. Desperation is not in my nature certainly not on behalf of someone unconnected to me. What is very strongly in my nature is a hearty respect for proof and evidence.
I’m waiting for that, I guess. That’s not desperation – that’s just waiting to see what evidence turns up. You know, like if I was on a jury. I’d wait until I got all the evidence before making my mind up as to guilt!
@Confused
New Caledonia is very heavily white settled with redneck French farmers occupying land the native Kanaks say was stolen from them. Get the idea?
The referenda are the French Govt’s way of letting the Kanak desire for independence let off steam while looking all democratic about it. The vast majority of non Kanaks are not going ot cast off Mother France any time soon.
So it’s more like Cameron looking all magnanimous and statesmanlike while assured he will win it handsomely than the current situation here.
I grew up in NZ when the Kanaks rebelled in the ’80s and have followed things since. You wouldn’t get me going there as a tourist any time soon.
Big Jock is right. If Ruth Davidson asked questions about the First Minister’s husband, that would be a low blow if he was just an average guy who happened to be married to a politician- attacking a civilian as it were. It is perfectly legitimate to question his conduct when he is the operational boss of the party in power.
Monsieur le Roi Grenoulleverteetprofonde
Wise words.
Theories of strategic planning
link to healthknowledge.org.uk
It is received wisdom around car crashes, that only rarely does one individual thing cause them. Most crashes are caused by a series of small, seemingly unconnected things.
That is worrying about the present situation in which the SNP finds itself, so close to final Brexit and the Holyrood election.
“Scotland will not be dragged out of Europe against its will”
Shown to be a lot of hot air.
The Salmond investigation
Blows up in the face of the Scottish Government – at considerable cost.
The Salmond Trial stitch-up
Found Not Guilty
The Holyrood committee enquiry into the Salmond Affair
Blows up in the FM’s face.
The Beale Hanvey de-selection debacle.
Hanvey wins his seat and is re-admitted to the party.
The Edinburgh Central candidate selection stitch-up.
Embarrassment all round as Joanne Cherry’s candidacy is blocked by “head office.”
A sudden spate of senior MSPs standing down.
Why? When independence has never been more popular and the Tories are under the worst Prime Minister in generationds.
The party’s support for unpopular measures – the GRA and the Hate Speech Bill.
Pig-headed concentration on issues shown to be unpopular among the electorate.
The Rhiannon Spear twitter storm.
More unnecessary bad press for the party and the FM.
Independence on the back burner till Covid is controlled
Taking their eye off the ball, when the goal has never been closer – it’s a Van Vossen Moment.
That’s ten examples of where a party, once a by-word for unity and togetherness has been caught-up in needless internal bickering, which could cost it votes.
And all the time, a hostile media backs off and refuses to attack. Why not? What are they waiting for?
This does not look good for the SNP and for the wider Independence movement. I am starting to feel a wee bit like Private Fraser.
@A.C. Bruce,
Evidence is turning up all the time. Except to the Inquiry that is. Maybe Nicola will have a change of heart though.
Based on what I know so far, Murrell guilty as sin, Sturgeon complicit.
It would be easier to let Blackbeard claim innocence.
@Socrates MacSporran
You can add another to the list: Margaret Ferrier travelling from London to Scotland on the train while knowing she was COVID positive…
Who said this ? I’ll give you three guesses .”Dominic Cummings’ actions have undermined the sacrifices that we have all been making in lockdown to protect each other from coronavirus. His position is untenable and he must be removed from his post now.
“The fact that Boris Johnson and senior Tories have backed Dominic Cummings, in the face of widespread and understandable public anger, demonstrates a total failure of leadership at a time of national crisis.
“The public health advice is crystal clear. For the safety of others, anyone with coronavirus symptoms must self-isolate, in line with government guidance. They should not leave the house for any reason.
“Anyone who needs help during periods of self-isolation should make use of the support offered through local authorities, which is open to anyone who needs it.”
The idea about backdating complaints when Mr Salmond had been left for years had to be illegal and the Government HAD to get those women to go to court. From that moment on the Murrells have been running and trying hide their tracks as they go. She’s had a lot of help BUT I think there’s only so far that people will go and I suspect that the tether has reached its end.
Sturgeons a hard nosed politician but I think she’s got a lot of competition with her husband and I don’t see him doing anything much to help her.
BTW I like to dream alternatives and I would love to be totally wrong about Sturgeon.
Someone mentioned visionarys.
The journey to independence is a vision and this century has seen a tangible quickening toward that .
I had always perceived the SNP political party as a major vehicle in that direction but never the goal . Something totally expendable on referendum victory day , with the caveat that it performs it’s duty as transitional regime until the first free Scotland election is held. Obviously human failings and one might dare say the deliberate meddling from naturally deceitful quarters are expected.
Only the people of Scotland can carry the vision, not people failing for whatever reason .
Without overstating the circumstances it is imo that the independence of Scotland from Westminster rule is unique disproportionate game in the level of impact it will have on the actual wider world . A possible curse or blessing that time will soon tell .
In the meantime the robbers are squirrelling away as much as poss.
@Jack
First guess Margaret Ferrier
I was in the past The Vice Convener in Charge of the SNP entire administration and fundraising and I think the questions that are being asked and worthy of an open reply.
Again, as soon often these days I ask what is to be gained by delaying publication? Who benefits?
I wonder if Nicola could dump everything on Murrell and walk away with clean hands. Could she be that ruthless?
Margaret Ferrier took Covid into Westminster.’
How many Tories attended with Covid?
Boris, Handcock, Cummings, etc.
Nicola Sturgeon has submitted written evidence to the Salmond Enquiry.
Weeks later, the Enquiry Committee has not received Nicola Sturgeon’s written evidence.
CSS – Covert Sabotage Scotland. Stinks of Westmister.
Whatever anger I have against NS is as nothing to the contempt I have for these lawbreaking bastards.
Being self indulgent with members’ money is an amateur’s move because it will always come out in the wash. Forensic accountants look at a transaction and see straight away it was made by a left handed harpsichordist with a stammer. Accounts can generalise and consolidate many items but cash can always be reconciled against bank statements. I’d be surprised if professional managers had fallen for that one. The mistake they’ve made is the delay in publishing looks dodgy even if it isn’t. When to comes to members’ money the only safe policy is whiter than white, publish it openly, verifiably, regularly and never use a single penny wrongly. If you’ve nothing to hide, don’t hide it.
“I’d bet that 90% of the SNP membership have no idea about Wings or what is discussed here, so there’s next to no chance of a party rebellion or a mass resignation of party membership.”
It is an incontrovertible fact that she lied to Parliament, and it would be absolutely unprecedented for a First Minister to survive that once it was formally established.
Also: the point, which Davidson made clear, is not that she was being asked to answer for her husband. She was being asked to answer for the Chief Executive of the party she’s the leader of.
Bob Mack @ 6,08
Probably a moot point when police are reported to be cautioning school children for failure to wear surgical masks but its difficult to imagine the committee being able to do the job entrusted to it with out knowing who the accusers were and when they made their accusations so, whilst redactions are appropriate in the public domain, it makes more sense to me that the civil service would need to go to court to justify keeping information from the committee rather than to be able to release it – particularly after having received an instruction from the current First Minister to do exactly that.
Similarly legal privilege belongs to the client, not the lawyer, so if FM demands transparency the civil service should be able to comply – unless and to extent it is working for a different master..
@Effijy says:
1 October, 2020 at 7:56 pm
“Margaret Ferrier took Covid into Westminster.’
How many Tories attended with Covid?
Boris, Handcock, Cummings, etc.”
That doesn’t matter. She deliberately flouted government instructions. FFS she was one of the loudest voices demanding Cummings resignation for precisely the same reasons.
She’s my bloody MP as well. Lanarkshire has been put under more restrictions which most of us are observing. It’s one thing to travel when you have symptoms, but fucking reckless if you have been given a positive test. And on a bloody train as well.
Are the SNP in self-destruct mode this week?
Ah well, we will soon know what side of the fence Margaret Ferrier is regarding the Trans debate. I don’t know anything about her (can we call anybody her these days or do we have to check with them first for their preferred pronouns?).
If she supports women’s rights she will be chucked out quite quickly. If she is woke, then she will be suspended for a time at worst.
Derek Mackays Facebook entries were subject to a police enquiry. Yet Nicola asked Derek about them, then sacked him when he admitted to them.
Yet she hasn’t asked the CEO about messages that are subject to a police enquiry? FFS.
Guess who is top trending on Twitter?
Oh well, makes a change from either football or the latest attack on JKR 🙂
@A C Bruce (6.42) –
I’ve no reason to question your sincerity, but when you write:
‘What is very strongly in my nature is a hearty respect for proof and evidence.’
I hope you also have respect for ‘due process’.
Some people regard this so-called ‘Salmond’ committee as a charade. For those of us old enough to have witnessed umpteen ‘inquiries’ spanning a vast range of issues, that’s understandable, because justice is seldom ‘seen to be done’. But that doesn’t mean we can or should just turn a blind eye to abuse of the processes in place.
No-one can pick and choose when to submit evidence or appear personally – that is the job of the committee.
Margaret Ferrier has no choice but to resign as an MP and she should do it now!
Would never have believed people on here would ally themselves with Baroness Davidson, but they surely have.
Divide and rule it’s the Tory way.
Just been on WGD… it is very cultish with former wingers complimenting each other for being so nice and trusting, and who think the world of wee nippy.
‘Dr’ Jim, Petra and Capella spring out and seem to be having their own conversation and are obviously converts to the cult of WGD. Sadly I see Macart on there who I always thought was a good solid WoS man (or woman?)
If ex-FM Henry McLeish had to stand down due to a financial scandal, then when Sturgeon is shown to have lied to parliament, she too will have to stand aside, and take Murrell with her.
@OldPete says:
1 October, 2020 at 8:20 pm
“Margaret Ferrier has no choice but to resign as an MP and she should do it now!
Would never have believed people on here would ally themselves with Baroness Davidson, but they surely have.”
It’s got fuck all to do with teaming up with Ruthie.
She knew the rules.
She chose to blatantly break them – twice.
Latest info coming out is that she lied to her own colleagues about why she was travelling home. If that is true then she’s toast.
I made the same criticisms about Cummings. That does NOT excuse her actions one bit.
FFS I voted for her last election. She can gtf if that is her attitude to the COVID restrictions and rules. Get someone else in from the party.
I never would have believed some people are trying to defend her.
“I wonder if Nicola could dump everything on Murrell and walk away with clean hands. Could she be that ruthless?”
That wouldn’t be a ruthless thing to try, it would be an extremely stupid thing to try. That’s not to say she won’t try it.
There’s one big problem, though. Someone seems to have access to certain materials and we have no reason to assume there won’t be more – possibly even more damning – revelations or leaks to come from that someone. We can guess that it’s someone with an axe to grind.
That being the case, it might be very unwise of Sturgeon to rest everything on an argument that may turn out to be verifiably false and directly contradicted in future leaks.
Maybe there was an assumption in the earlier stages of all this that Salmond wouldn’t be here, that he’d be in prison for the rest of his life, and a degree of carelessness crept into things.
But Salmond is here.
He’s a very clever man, Alex Salmond. People don’t give him the credit he deserves for his intelligence. I watched an interview with him recently and he was quoting hard facts and economic data from decades ago.
Nicola Sturgeon knows all this and more. She’s a political and intellectual lightweight by comparison.
There’s a dialogue of sorts in the sequencing and rhythm of events right now. It’s almost as if she’s being told to resign or face more painful revelations. I’m guessing, but that’s what I sense, and I think it’s going to escalate and get really dark and ugly in the next few days.
Assuming I’m right, which I tend to, it’s really better for everybody that she goes sooner rather than later. This has the potential to close the whole Parliament and Scottish Government down, much like the ‘Cash for Ash’ scandal did in Northern Ireland.
For the good of the SNP, the people of Scotland, the independence cause, Holyrood, the Scottish government, and the judicial system, not to mention her herself, I think she’s got to go and soon.
It doesn’t matter a jot that Ruth was the one who asked the questions.
All that matters right now is that those questions be answered.
‘It’s better out than in!’
😉
“If she supports women’s rights she will be chucked out quite quickly. If she is woke, then she will be suspended for a time at worst.”
WOKE theory and practice was designed to counter neo-liberalism by empowering natal women, ethnic minorities, and those politically marginalised through the intersectionality of their social position and disadvantages. So the SNP are more Tory than WOKE.
Mapping the Margins: Intersectionality, Identity Politics, and Violence Against Women of Color
link to racialequitytools.org
Margaret Ferrier must resign. Can’t obviously can’t hold a by-election at the moment, but that can wait. Rutherglen is better off not being represented in Westminster for a while than being represented by a selfish, hypocritical @rshole who knowingly puts people lives in danger. Good the SNP have condemned and suspended her, but get rid of her.
-Hatuey-
The closure of Stormont was due to the fact that the legislation establishing it requires the NI government to be formed by a unionist and a nationalist party. The nationalist party, Sinn Fein, withdrew from the government, ostensibly due to Cash for Ash, but really just using that as an excuse, and this meant Stormont had to be closed down. So this would not, in the first instance, apply to our situation.
That is not, of course, to say that the unfolding mess here will not be used and manipulated by the Tories to their own ends.
We are only living through this hell. Because Nicola and Murrell tried to do away with an innocent man.
Even just a year ago most believed it was the Uk civil servants, not the SG. It took me a while of soul searching to have to admit that Sturgeon was part of this.
Now I am 100% certain.
Here’s the written report from FMQs today for anyone who didn’t see it , after R Davidson’s questions you have to go down to page 28 for Jackie Baillie’s question .
link to parliament.scot
@ Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
Wings has a reputation for being widely read but as you know and I know, it’s only a small handful of regulars who contribute on here.
For example, Doris up the road might be a member of the SNP, but she has no idea what’s going on with the Murrells or whatever. Same with John in Lanarkshire, Henry over in Fife and so on.
My point being that the very people who could affect change in the leadership by mass resignation of their memberships or whatever, have no idea that all this stuff is happening. Even if they did know about it, they probably wouldn’t care because all they’re interested in is independence without having to think about it.
So the Murrells et al can just sit tight because at the moment, it’s a minor party squabble which will blow over soon enough and not enough people know about it to force their hand.
@Big Jock –
The targeting of Alex Salmond should always be kept at the heart of any discussion over this intolerable, interminable shitery.
Let’s not forget that, ever – Wark, Smith, Evans and heaven knows how many others in the BTUKOKocracy would still be clinking glasses every week-end, celebrating his incarceration and premature death.
Horrific to contemplate – no wonder that some simply cannot process it, preferring the comfort of denial.
george wood says:
1 October, 2020 at 8:10 pm
Ah well, we will soon know what side of the fence Margaret Ferrier is regarding the Trans debate.
Margaret came to my door canvassing in December and I chinned her about this very issue, in fact subsequently I even had a meeting with both her and Christina McKelvie about it.
She is in the woke camp, although I think more because the heid yins in the party are on that side (she told me somewhat defensively that it goes all the way up to Nicola) than due to a personal conviction.
I asked her if she’d signed the SNP women’s pledge and from what she had to say it was clear she hadn’t even read it but had been told not to sign and some demonstrably untrue guff about why she should not. I was less than impressed with her for just doing as she was told without checking for herself.
@Mist001
The developing situation has been widely covered by the MSM, Twitter and Facebook. I have just watched the Nine. The entire first half of the programme was devoted to problems challenging the SNP including the Salmond Enquiry. I am predicting the Murrells will be gone by the end of this month as they are reportedly indivisible. They will both go the same day. We need to get our Parliament back.
.
Mr MacAskill,
Thankyou from the heart to your good self for contributing your illuminating articles on this Wings Over Scotland website.
Kenny, I am wondering whether you may be a white knight coming to the rescue sir?
You are absolutely staking your colours to the mast. You have impressive credentials and very good bona fides to lead the SNP out what The Queen might term an Annus Excremterriblis!
After IndyRef1 I and many here saw that wretched hack photo of Alex Salmond being driven in the FM car and he looked utterly exhausted. Like death warmed up.
During the Strurgeon/McWokeist/Murrell perversion of the course of justice to impugn, stitch-up and imprison the best First Minister Scotland ever had, Alex Salmond looked awful. During that disgusting attempt to ruin him Alex looked as if he had aged 15 years,
Now, whilst watching Alex on his RT hosted programme he looks back to his good old self. Indeed he appears very, very happy and in rude health having a brilliant time discussing matters of gravitas with some very smart and interesting people. He isn’t roasted at FMQ every week by a list of ever diminished party leaders leading ever diminishing parties.
This evening, whilst watching Alex at his best and happiest, hosting his TV programme, the distressing thought hit me that Alex may simply NOT want to come back to front line politics. Goodness knows he has done his bit for Scottish Independence. In fact, Alex Salmond has been Herculean in his efforts.
Being betrayed by the apprentice he helped so much, that Dreghorn Dissembler must have hurt Alex profoundly.
So if as appears to be say 30% of the odds that Alex is exactly what he described himself on the recent court papers as… “Occupation: Retired Politician” and Alex is keeping his blood pressure down and his health good by steering clear of the current Mr & Mrs Sturgeon Shitfest, then…
Kenny, might it be impertinent of me to ask whether you may be persuaded to stand for new leader of the SNP?
Up until now, with the few remaining Sturgeon apologists on Wings Over Scotland saying I and others of my ilk should hold our nose and vote SNP in May 2021, my answer is NO I WILL NOT VOTE FOR THE SNP WHEN THEY ARE PASSING THE 1984 ORWELLIAN HATE CRIME BILL THAT WILL KILL OFF SITES SUCH AS WINGS OVER SCOTLAND WHEN THE SNP MCWOKEISTS COMPLETE THEIR POWER GRAB.
But, I would return and vote SNP if Alex Salmond or Joanna Cherry were leader.
As of today, and this, your most recent article on WOS, I would be minded to vote SNP in May 2021 if YOU were leading the SNP.
Kenny, please keep up the good work. Please keep writing for Wings Over Scotland.
Stuart Campbell does a great job and it is nice to see him getting some top-flight contributors to ease the stress of getting the SNP McWokeist cabal cleared out and setting us safely back on the path to Independence.
One upside of Margaret Ferrier’s adventures (over and above her remarkably speedy recovery compared with the Conservative cabinet back in the day) is that, being a reasonably high profile figure, her experience could make an interesting case study to provide feedback on the efficiency of the current surveillance system:
ie
Was her positive test counted as one of the 714 on Saturday, the 222 on Monday or the 806 on Tuesday
Were the people she came into contact with on Saturday and Sunday included in the 13 360 traced and tracked to week ending 27 October,
Did tracking continue when she crossed the border,
Given that she had recovered on Sunday (but did not receive her positive result until Monday) were the people she met on the way home tracked down and tested
If so, what did they test,
If she took another test now would it still be positive (despite having recovered last Sunday), etc
-Mist001-
If you are an SNP member you are likely to be well-engaged with Scottish politics and to be aware, through your friends made in the party, of the rumblings of discontent. Granted, at the moment your average punter doesn’t know this and a distressingly large number of people think “Nicola” is great just because she can put on a pensive face at her news conferences. However this can change rapidly; look at how unpopular “Boris” has become.
-Iain-
Can you IMAGINE the reaction some people would have had if Boris Johnson had tried to put Theresa May in prison? Even after all the crazy stuff that has happened in politics in the last few years it is simply inconceivable. Yet we tell ourselves we are progressive and democratic here!
For those who may want to catch up on what Craig Murray has been doing…
link to craigmurray.org.uk
We are very noble here trying to sack Margaret Ferrier.
She raised more issues at Westminster in her first years as an MP than the
Previous Labour MP did in 5 years.
He was an English golden boy sent up here to a safe seat.
She fought hard to save the Steel Jobs here in Cambuslang.
She has been stupid in this matter but is it more stupid than Cummings,
More stupid than Boris shaking hands with everybody in the Covid ward,
More Stupid than Grayling and the Millions paid out to a shipping company
that has never had a ship, more stupid than Gove backing up Cummings by
saying he too goes driving when he wants to test his eye sight and then
Demanding a Covid test for his daughter while front line doctors could get one
even when colleagues were dying, Baroness Davidson taking £20,000 of Russian
Money.
I’m not so keen that there are no second chances for independence supporters
while the Unionist misdemeanours get overlooked and forgotten.
Did Bojo’s Dad get fined for illegally travelling to Greece via Bulgaria
or refusing to wear a mask while shopping or Corbyn’s dinner party?
Equal rights for everyone is always a priority.
-Tannadice-
I should have added to the above post, that the stories which readers of this site have been following for months are now seeping into the mainstream media. I too used to like and admire Nicola Sturgeon, although I never adored her as some did, but an objective look at the facts leads you to obvious conclusions.