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Wings Over Scotland


On moving to Yes

Posted on September 04, 2014 by

    182 to “On moving to Yes”

    1. handclapping says:

      Possibly to be part of something we can do rather than remain in something that we can’t

    2. donald anderson says:

      It never was OK at any time in our history. Don’t let them away with any more guff.

    3. galamcennalath says:

      Every figure who comes out publicly for Yes will help. I do particularly like his sentiment about why settle for OK when the alternative could be amazing.

      Though that said, I think the UK is unlikely to every be as good as OK!

      The alternative? Well, the point is, it will be up to we Scots and no one else to make the future amazing!

      Must confess I had to google Leckie to find out who he was. Sun and sport are way outside my knowledge sphere.

    4. paul gerard mccormack says:

      Moving to Yes – yes, they are all to be applauded. Maybe it’s the realisation that it is NOT about Alec Salmond or the SNP, but a genuine grassroots anti-party political movement that wants this once in a lifetime change. I mean, WTF does Sir Bob Geldof know about it? Does he think we are all stupid? They just don’t seem to get that this is NOT about identity, culture, ethnicity, nationalism or any of all that crap.

    5. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Mark Twain said: My life has been filled with calamities, some of which actually happened.

      There seems to be nothing more fictitious than the worry that goes on in our heads. Now there’s a study that proves it. Researchers at the University of Cincinnati found that eight-five percent (yes – 85%) of what we worry about never happens.

      Moreover, the study found that 79% of us handle the 15% that does happen in ways that surprise us with our ability to turn the situation around.

    6. Jim Bo says:

      Well done that man!
      I’ve noticed quite a few previously No and undecideds recently converting to Yes on Facebook, G+ etc. which fills me with an enormous sense of well being. We’ve got this!

    7. Marcia says:

      I see other straws in the wind nearer to me. One ultra Unionist friend who said to me that we didn’t have a chance and it will be a landslide for No just a couple of months ago told me yesterday that ‘there has been a huge shift to Yes in the past two weeks’ and is now resigned to Yes winning although we will still be No . The other was hearing from someone that used to go into a fury at just the mention of AS’s name. He read the WBB and is now a Yes.

    8. Onwards says:

      ..it just feels better to believe in something that could be amazing than to settle for what can never be better than OK.”

      It does feel good to believe in something better.

      For too long, there has been an apathetic attitude in too many Scots.
      Almost as if we don’t try, we can’t really be disappointed.

      It seems like the tide might be about to turn..

      People are starting to believe we can actually do it !!

    9. Indy_Scot says:

      I think most people like to believe in something better. That is why they will vote Yes.

    10. TD says:

      It definitely will not be “OK” if we are stupid enough to vote No. They fully intend to punish us for having the effrontery to challenge their perception of the way things should be.

      Make no mistake – the UK is going to try to give Scotland a hard time. We will either be dealing with this as subservient underdogs without the power to defend ourselves or we will be dealing with it from a position of strength with the full power of a (prospective) independent country which happens to have some rather good cards.

      They are really angry with us. People who vote No are asking to have their (and our) backsides skelpt.

    11. heedtracker says:

      Maybe not so future Lord Brian says vote NO, you’re no different from anyone else and England won’t buy Scotrs energy either. Also, not so Lord Wislon is a product of 70+ years of Labour in Scotland power, so why change that.

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/04/scottish-independence-nationalism-progressive-george-monbiot-uk

      Why do the liggers keep using Wilson’s photos from the 80’s as that giant trough in the sougth recedes ever further:D

    12. HandandShrimp says:

      The waves are lapping around the sandcastle walls. This last couple of weeks have been quite remarkable. Something is happening, something wonderful and the powers that be can’t stop it.

    13. Juteman says:

      The good thing about the Bill Leckie story, is that folk that never discuss politics are talking about it. At tea break today, i learned that two unionists i’ve been working on have moved. One is now a Yes, and the other is undecided, leaning to Yes. Anything that gets ‘ordinary’ folk talking is good.

    14. muttley79 says:

      @Jim Bo

      We’ve got this!

      No, we have not. That is just encouraging complacency. We have not won until all the results are announced, and we have received more votes than No. It is not over until the fat lady sings.

    15. heedtracker says:

      Brian Wilson’s frighteners for No says Scotland is no different from the rest of England but also progressive England needs Scotland, which is a bit of Labour in Scotland forever and ever reasoning, but the fact is Labour men like lord Brian are now very rich and powerful and are desperate to protect it all, so here’s what they’ve really cost Scotland

      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/?utm_content=buffer61bc1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

      “In the 2011/12 Scottish public accounts, 70% of Scotland’s nominal operating deficit was due to £4.1 billion of interest payments on debt we didn’t need.

      If Scotland had been an independent country over the last 32 years we would have a cash surplus of around £50 billion even if we assume we would still have had the same expenditure including payments for banking collapse and nuclear weapons etc. If we had invested some of that £50 billion in a sovereign oil fund we would probably now have a much larger fund than Norway’s and our economy could be 25% larger than it is today.

    16. Marcia says:

      muttley79

      You are correct. We can do it provide we keep working away at it. Which I am away to do for the next couple of hours. The NO side will get even more shrill in the next two weeks.

      Jeanne Freeman putting Andrew Neil in his place.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23m6CukRUGM&feature=youtu.be

    17. Democracy Reborn says:

      @paul gerard mccormack

      Paul,

      Spot on.

      Once you cut through all the bullshit about ethnicity, identity, culture, Salmond, ‘solidarity with rest of the UK working class’ et al., it really boils down to this :-

      Who do you want to control your future? The Scottish people or Westminster?

      I haven’t read anything Geldof may have said, but if it’s pro-Union, I find that astonishing coming from an Irishman with any sense of history.

    18. Garry Coburn says:

      Knew he would come round eventually…..used to enjoy his column in The Sun when I used to read it…..haven’t bought it for months after getting fed up with their biased atricles and lack of neutrality.

    19. Chic McGregor says:

      @TD
      Succinctly put but clear.

    20. Macart says:

      He knows not where he’s going for the oceans will decide. Its not the destination, but the glory of the ride. 🙂

      Always liked that wee ditty. The future is huge and unwritten, better yet, its there to be shaped with the right tools to hand.

    21. The Man in the Jar says:

      Regarding Sir Bob Geldof (a bit of a clue there)

      I gave up listening to “pop” stars on the eighth of December 1980 at 10:50pm. (US Eastern time)

      “Give peace a chance”

    22. Pam McMahon says:

      I have moved from Yes to “I’m not voting at all”, thanks to a rude and off-hand comment from Wings over Scotland on Twitter. Somebody had said they had more WBBs than they needed, and I asked if some could be diverted to Caithness, where we didn’t seem to have any. I was basically told to bugger off and harrass Yes Highland, which I have been doing for weeks, with no response.
      The egotistical arrogance of this website and it’s sublime disregard of those of us who have been supporting and working for the return of our country to sovreign status since the 1960s, has resulted in the loss of at least 2 Yes votes, So, well done you.
      I have made financial contributions to the Wee Blue Book from my very small NHS pension, as a retired nurse. I have now told locals they will have to make their own arrangements if they still want to see a copy. I will now not take any part in this referendum, including voting.

    23. fred blogger says:

      Marcia
      you mind reader.
      i was looking for that! 🙂
      the only way is yes, the genie is out of the bottle.
      going back to the way things were is no longer an option,

    24. Through my work I have the good fortune to travel around Scotland a lot. In the past 5 weeks I’ve been from Dumfries to Shetland, Stornoway to Fraserburgh.

      Where the NO campaign has it’s highest visibility out there is not on the streets we mostly inhabit, but on large farms, estates and in the New Town of Edinburgh. No point dropping a Wee Blue Book through the Earl of Mansfield’s letterbox at Scone Palace.

      Many have done well out of the Union and its attendant privilege based wealth distribution.
      When they state Better Together they forget to put the “I’m” before the Better.

      To those owning large properties, second homes £30K cars etc a Yes vote must be as scary a prospect as a NO vote is to the rest of us that just get by.

      That comfortable complacency is misplaced, though. The elephant in the room of the debate, is not how will Scotland manage post YES, but just how f+++ed is the UK.

      By any economic assessment it is Royally f+++ed. So much so that even those in the top 10% of wealth cannot escape the consequences of the economic catastrophe that is heading this way. Their complacency is misplaced no matter how much they think their wealth will see them through a wee dip. What is coming is not a wee downturn but the outright bankruptcy of the entire UK.

      We are not “settling for something that can never be better than OK” we are settling for an incoming tsunami of total collapse. A collapse so profound it will impact on all of us, even the rich.

      To vote NO is akin to heading to the beach to see the big wave coming in when it is in fact an incoming tsunami of total collapse…

      http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/scottish-independence-uk-dependency

    25. chalks says:

      Drove up King Street in Aberdeen this morning. Seems to have grown Yes signs overnight. Maybe it was just the morning light, but something seems to have changed.

    26. Nana Smith says:

      @Pam McMahon

      Oh dear Pam I am really sorry to hear this. Who on this site told you to bugger off?

    27. Indy_Scot says:

      Looking forward to the Revs news regarding WBB and the media.

    28. chalks says:

      Come on Pam, tensions are running high, but please vote.

      There are arseholes everywhere, don’t let them get to you. Hopefully you get the books you need, can someone help her out? No point in you spending all the years campaigning and believing in something you hold so dear to your heart, only for it to be ruined by some twat with an ego problem.

    29. TO PAM McMAHON

      email me on d [dot] urquhart [at] blueyonder [dot] co [dot] uk

      You supply the address and I’ll get as 50 WBB’s in the post to you tomorrow.
      Hope that puts your toys back in your pram!

    30. heedtracker says:

      Where the NO campaign has it’s highest visibility out there is not on the streets we mostly inhabit, but on large farms, estates and in the New Town of Edinburgh. No point dropping a Wee Blue Book through the Earl of Mansfield’s letterbox at Scone Palace.

      No Donald, it’s more than likely that the Ear’s butler and maids will see WBB long before his Earlness does. It’s like the owner of Tunocks votes very NO, but his employees may not.

    31. CameronB Brodie says:

      Life is full of challenges that we have never faced before, and it is how we respond to these that shapes our charter. It’s called growing up.

    32. TD says:

      Pam McMahon

      Is that not a rather petulant reaction? Are you really prepared to turn your back on what you believe in just because you feel someone was rude to you? Remember that the Yes campaign is bigger even than Wings.

      Think how you will feel on the 19th when the Yes win is declared and you have not voted.

    33. fred blogger says:

      Marcia
      and so neil should be embarrassed into retreat as he cleanly shows he has.
      ed says/implies, the only worthwhile barriers and borders to democracy, are those erected by WM.
      hypocrite!

    34. HandandShrimp says:

      Pam

      I can understand your frustration as we would all like WBBs to hand out – their popularity is beyond belief.

      However, one insensitive individual is surely not reason enough to give up on the hopes and aspirations of an entire country. Your contributions both of your time and pension are valuable, your vote even more precious.

    35. Greannach says:

      @Pam McMahon

      Rudeness is never much of a response to anything, but I surely wouldn’t let a bit of rudeness put me off voting for something I’ve believed in for decades. I would try and work out what my priorities were and act accordingly:
      A) If I want independence, I’ll vote Yes; or
      B) If I want to register my dislike of rudeness, I’ll vote for staying in the UK.

    36. Hewitt83 says:

      This narrative plays out what I’m seeing among lots of people at the moment.

      Folk are finally waking up the alternative to Yes which just isn’t credible.

    37. Doug Mcgregor says:

      I have just watched Jean Freeman being interviewed by Andrew Neil on the Daily Politics , brilliant , watching Brillo being put firmly in his place by a feisty lady who knows her stuff. Yes should get her out front more often.(last 10 mins of todays show ,now on Iplayer , Recommended viewing)

    38. Muscleguy says:

      I have just come back from helping to staff a Yes table locally. They had WBBs and we handed out quite a few to Yes folk who said they had DK’s to pass them onto and a couple of undecideds. I have a pocketful of them to take on a RIC canvass this evening. Going to be much better than the Aye Right cards we ran out of last time. We also handed them around to some older school kids out at lunchtime who stopped to debate stuff. They are being put to good use here in Dundee, never fear. We will convert more and more undecided or soft No people like the author of that piece in the Sun with them. Also of course by being in possession of facts and figures and arguments.

      The question of this is whether the Sun is moving towards coming out for Yes. Is is a coincidence that this has come after the second debate and the poll movements? I doubt it. IF the Sun goes that way we really will have won it.

    39. Chic McGregor says:

      @Paul
      Agree, except I have a rather broad view of what ‘culture’ means. It is mainly based on the established underlying beliefs and the priorities which constitute a set of benchmarks which are broadly understood by those living in the nation concerned. That awareness does not mean that individuals or groups cannot disagree with them or try to change them, that is how national cultures evolve, but nevertheless they exist.

      It has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity, everyone in Scotland is an immigrant or descended from immigrants. Human habitation in Scotland has not existed long enough for any evolution that could be ascribed to this part of the World. In evolutionary terms Scotland is a brand new country.

      It has very little to do with what many associate with culture, haggis, whisky, kilts, shortbread and the like. These are little more than identification badges.

      But I do believe that different national cultures (as described) exist, that they have the right to continue existing and developing, free from interference, and that the existence of differing cultural perspectives is a very good thing for the advancement of civilization.

      I also believe that if there were no difference in national cultural perspectives there would be no point in having different countries, and indeed there would be no call for it either.

      e.g. if English national cultural perspective was identical to Scottish national cultural perspective there would never even have been an independence movement in the first place, now, would there?

    40. Hewitt83 says:

      @Pam

      That is a rather strange response.

      I could get home from work tonight and Alex Salmond could be taking a dump on my doorstep however I’d still vote Yes.

      This decision is bigger than all of us.

      I hope you get the WBBs you need and reconsider your position.

    41. Nation Libre says:

      Had a cousin whom I thought was a NO. I had sent details of meetings in her area, all the YES info etc with no response in over a year. I was sure she must be a NO and just didn’t want to upset me. Well, two weeks ago the FB profile pic is updated, with a YES twibbon!

      Another mate who was a NO, or don’t care (brother at Faslane etc)had just intimated to me that he’ll probably vote YES

      I’m over for a week before the vote to go round mates and family, canvassing, driving people to the polls etc. Armed with my home print of WBBs and some Ebay prints (thanks Kestral)

      I’m convinced if the people get out to vote, it’ll be a YES

    42. Wp says:

      Doug McGregor, just watched this. Outstanding. She is some able woman. Love to see her rip into Darling or Murphy. Jeane Freeman. Remember that name.

    43. Pam McMahon says:

      Donald Urquhart – you think I’m having a wee temper tantrum? Wait till you’ve sat in the Deacon Brodie’s with a load of Church of Scotland ministers attending the General Assembly and listening to Winnie Ewing’s result in 1967, and being ejected from the premises, wait till you’ve been threatened with a baseball bat 5 times over the years. Wait till you’ve spent 50 years fighting a cause before you start sneering at me. Stuff your WBB and stuff the horrendous attitude and lack of respect I see on this website.

    44. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      Hi pam, i totally understand your reaction, nobody likes rudeness and i would be in the same boat as you if it was me. I really hope in a few hours you will feel better and not let a rude individual take away your important role in securing your countries future.

    45. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks for that link Marcia. Isn’t that nice of wee Red Ed to make mention of the fact that when he enters the door of number 10 as Prime Minister 😉 he will introduce the 10p tax rate again. Hmm, just wondering here but did a previous Labour Chancellor not introduce a 10p tax rate? I wonder whatever happened to THAT 10p tax rate and to that Chancellor …

      Just as a wee aside folks I think I’ve just identified Murph the Smurph’s egg man, it is non other than Andrew Neil! The amount of egg he was left with all over his face gives the clue away I think. 😛

      Finally can I say congratulations to Bill Leckie on having the courage to sit down with his son and listen to the reasoning behind Scottish independence and then having the courage to openly admit that he was wrong to believe in the unionists false arguments and stand up to join his son in voting YES! 😀

    46. Clootie says:

      muttley79 says:
      4 September, 2014 at 2:35 pm

      Jim Bo is just enjoying the lift as I am. The No Thanks team are miserable enough for both camps.

      A positive upbeat feeling should be enjoyed not worried about.

      A big difference exists between complacency and confidence.

    47. Jim Bo says:

      @Muttley79
      Of course you are right, I stand corrected; there is indeed no room for complacency.
      It saddens me not to be a direct part of the campaign in Scotland as I’m currently living overseas, however I have been doing my bit by spreading the WBB around as much as possible.

    48. Dave says:

      Just got my postcard from my local MP Danny Alexander with a message from some expat from Canada urging me to vote no. She reminded me of all the family I have in Canada who had to leave Scotland last century because there were no prospects here.

      Funnily enough, Danny is promising to have more powers returned to the Highlands but he got the postcard printed in Edinburgh.

    49. heedtracker says:

      Chic technically or genetically, we’re all Africans and all descended from one female too, humans moving out of Africa and into Europe, across the continents. So if there’s no such thing as “indigenous” Scots, there’s no such as thing as any one different nationality. Then there’s the European Neadrathal population, some of whom also called Scotland home and are now called the Orange Order.

    50. heraldnomore says:

      Pam, that’s all the more reason for doing the one thing that really matters to you – putting a cross in the box. Please.

    51. Jim McIntosh says:

      @donald

      “To those owning large properties, second homes £30K cars etc a Yes vote must be as scary a prospect as a NO vote is to the rest of us that just get by.”

      I’m not sure you are right, and I think you might turn off some people with that opinion. I own what what is a fairly big house, a £30K+ car, and go on good holidays 3-4 times a year. I earned the right to have these things. I ran my own company, paid myself a decent wage (not a minimum wage bumped up by dividends) and paid my taxes, including corporation tax. Through hard work I was able to retire in my late 50s’.

      I would have liked these taxes to benefit the people of Scotland, not primarily the south of England. I’ve always wanted an independent Scotland and have voted SNP for the past 40 years to that end. When we get indy I will reassess my voting intentions accordingly. I have the utmost respect for Alec Salmond as he has given us what he promised, but I’m not sure his vision of Scotland agrees with mine, we will see.

      Please don’t tar everyone with a wee bit of money with the same brush.

    52. Les Wilson says:

      Donald Urquhart says:

      Good post and very good article ( re posted below)
      I have only one question, has Cameron got a hot line to Holyrood?
      As he better use it soon.

      http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/scottish-independence-uk-dependency

    53. Lesley-Anne says:

      Can I say on behalf of all wingers Pam that we are deeply saddened by your experiences. No one should have to encounter the experiences that you have recounted here. If I may can I repectfully ask that you take some time to coll down from your obvious and very understandable anger and upset and come back to us here so that we as a group can maybe find some way of trying to help you out. No one here likes to hear about people like your good self being insulted in the way that you have been. It is not just you that has been insulted but the vast majority of us wingers. We are all fighting for the same end and we all want to help each other out as best we can, so please take some time to yourself and revisit us later and we can all hopefully come to some sort of amicable arrangement to see what can be done about getting some WBB’s up to you.

      Personally I’d love to drive up to your door right now with some WBB’s but unfortunately Pam you’re way up Noff and I’m way Dan Suff. 😛

    54. muttley79 says:

      @Jim Bo

      Apologies if my post sounded rude or dismissive. It was not intended to be, although it could be interpreted as that over the internet. I just fear that the MSM/No campaign will try and change their narrative to saying all the pressure is on the Yes campaign. We are still behind, only the gap is narrowing. We need to be aware of the dangers of thinking we have it in the bag, or it is a certainty. A Yes win is now a distinct possibility, but no more than that imo.

    55. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pam McMahon
      Your ego appears to be bigger than your conviction to self-determination. What a pity.

    56. Les Wilson says:

      Dave says:

      Dave he is a thicko, par for the course!

    57. a2 says:

      @Pam McMahon

      You’ve been working for something for 50 years and changed your mind because someone was rude to you on twitter?

      The mind boggles! :0

      Independence is no more about this site than it is about Alex Salmond or any individual. but you know that already.

    58. yerkitbreeks says:

      Mmmnnn – piece in the Sun, eh. Bearing in mind its track record, could this herald ( no pun intended ) another paper coming over ?

    59. Brotyboy says:

      Great video of Jeane Freeman. The words arse, plate and handed come to mind.

    60. BigRik says:

      Maybe it’s because i’m a cynical bugger… but is this so the Sun can change sides and then claim.. its the sun wot won it??

    61. Devereux says:

      @Pam McMahon how wonderful, really, that we are fighting over WBB. That we all care so much. That rather than that lone voice you felt you were all these years ago it is now a roar. And if we nip each other occasionally in our excitement – at least we ARE excited, and engaged and alive and for once having our say! And how wonderful that YES is such a fantastic broad church that you can find a rainbow of different groups and one that you will feel happiest in.

    62. Troll alert.

      I fear Pam McArthur might be a Bitter Together agitator or troll. She wrote about sitting in Deacon Brodies, with a bunch of Church of Scotland ministers, attending the General Assembly and listening to the Hamilton by-election result being announced.

      The historic Hamilton by-election was on 2 November, 1967. The General Assembly is held in the summer, not in November. So, there’s no way “Pam” could have been sitting in Deacon brodie’s with a bunch of ministers, in town for the General Assembly.

    63. TD says:

      Pam McMahon

      Wingers are just like any other large group of people – you are going to get some who do not treat people with respect. There’s nothing anyone can do about that. But the vast majority are respectful, if sometimes a little robust in their arguments. That’s because the passions run high.

      I would implore you to think again – you are clearly steeped in the wider independence movement and have been for longer than most of us. Please don’t turn your back on your lifelong ambition just when we are on the brink of achieving what we all want because someone was rude to you.

    64. Haggis Hunter says:

      Pam, real sorry to hear someone told you to b@gger off.
      There is a lot of decent people on here, and some that have offended me for very little reason, because I had a constructive criticism, but we need you in Caithness, just as my part of rural Scotland (South Kincardine / North Angus) needs me.
      Please come back into the conversation, I can send you Blue books if you wish.
      Thanks,
      Angus

    65. BigRik says:

      Not vote? Because someone was rude? That’s almost as bad as saying NO because you don’t like Salmond. e.g.I am willing to put my entire country at risk because i don’t like one man.

    66. Lesley-Anne says:

      I think Pam what we all need to understand but often forget is that most of sitting down typing furiously away at our keyboards will, from time to time, post messages that in our heads sound fine but in print do the exact opposite. This is the problem with the internet. If we are face to face we can say things to each other and the tone and facial expressions etc are obvious however when we put things down in a post what might work face to face do not always work in print.

    67. tartanarse says:

      Plant Mcmahon

      For an old lady, you’re very childish. Stop clogging up the thread and jog on.

    68. Votadini Jeannie says:

      @BigRik

      My thoughts too! A sympathetic article a few days ago, a reporter turning to Yes AND writing about it today – I’d say they’re definitely starting to climb the fence, ready to choose which side to fall.

    69. Papadox says:

      Ed the talking horse tells us not vote for independence vote for labour in 18 months time and they might even get elected and do exactly SFA like they have done for the last 50 years.

      How could we refuse a lot of horse shit like that AGAIN.

      no thanks Ed I’m voting YES for Scotland and my grand kids.

    70. Lesley-Anne says:

      With regards the article and the SUN turning over to YES, was it not the SUN that conveniently provided Murph the Smurph’s *ahem* new security guard in Edinburgh the other day? (cluck cluck cluck 😛 )

      As for the Sun turning over to supporting YES in order to claim “it wos the SUN wot won it” well I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but they are too late. It was the WBB wot won it! 😉

    71. Votadini Jeannie says:

      @Pam McMahon

      Really? You endured all that for the independence cause yet now we’re on the brink of turning that cause into a reality, you’re refusing to take the final step because one person was rude to you online?

      It just doesn’t sound like something a die-hard supporter would do. But assuming that is genuinely your stance, you should ask yourself one question:

      If we lose this by one vote, will you wake up the next morning and feel that you did the right thing?

    72. seanair says:

      Marcia and others
      Joanne Freeman 10, Brillo 0.
      Pam McMahon
      Threatened 5 times with a baseball bat? Geezo! Where do you live?
      Nana Smith
      Democracy at last from a Union, and not a diktat from the Union boss in London.

    73. Fiona says:

      Pam McMahon says:
      4 September, 2014 at 2:49 pm
      I have moved from Yes to “I’m not voting at all”, thanks to a rude and off-hand comment from Wings over Scotland on Twitter. Somebody had said they had more WBBs than they needed, and I asked if some could be diverted to Caithness, where we didn’t seem to have any. I was basically told to bugger off and harrass Yes Highland, which I have been doing for weeks, with no response.
      The egotistical arrogance of this website and it’s sublime disregard of those of us who have been supporting and working for the return of our country to sovreign status since the 1960s, has resulted in the loss of at least 2 Yes votes, So, well done you.
      I have made financial contributions to the Wee Blue Book from my very small NHS pension, as a retired nurse. I have now told locals they will have to make their own arrangements if they still want to see a copy. I will now not take any part in this referendum, including voting.

      As you are no doubt aware, the production and distribution of the WBB has been a difficult job undertaken through voluntary effort and funding and carried out by people who have never done such a thing before and with very little time. It is not at all clear to me where your sense of entitlement is coming from: people here are trying hard to ensure the WBB is widely distributed and some above have offered to help you out as best they can: hardly the rude and offhand response you report from one person on twitter.

      I am afraid I do not believe a word you say. No one who has been committed to independence for decades is going to take the strunts on such an issue over one rude comment. Or at least that is my view. The proposition is ridiculous on its face.

      To those who have offered to assist this person: do you honestly think that Pam McMahon, who is by her own admission more volatile than the substandard oil we suffer from possessing, is going to make sure any copies of the WBB get to the places they can do most good, if you send some? I don’t.

      I am utterly unpersuaded of the bona fides of this person. Nor do I see why we should believe the account given, much less apologise for this unsubstantiated allegation.

    74. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      @ Fiona – Thanks for that. Saves me querying Yes Highland and other sites regarding the use of baseball bats or similar implements. However I am sure that the Rev can wave his magic twizzle stick on Twitter to locate alleged abuse. Somehow I doubt he will find much.

    75. Jim Thomson says:

      @Nana Smith “By his own admission …” says it all really. PLANT.

    76. Black Douglas says:

      @Nana Smith

      with regards to eggate found this on Yes Scotland FB page

      “The Westminster government has created yet another lost generation of young people with zero positive outlook. They care little for politics because politics cares little for them. Voting No would doom future generations to the same fate, but voting Yes might inspire confidence and hope by giving them a voice that can actually make a difference. I don’t care what party leads Scotland, so long as it is a party elected by the Scottish people, then it would have my full unequivocal support. The Union has failed and we must take full control. All it requires is courage and foresight. Stuart MacKenzie (Kirkcaldy)”

      http://tinyurl.com/p5e9d8w

      Just doesn’t feel right all to neat and convenient for BT especially when you take all the video footage into account.

      Anyway time to draw a line under it and move on! 🙂

    77. Geoff Huijer says:

      On the 18th of September we have a chance for the type of change I never thought would happen.

      We have been given this chance despite all the odds being stacked against us (& it has been done without violence) and if I were the only Yes advocate in Kinghorn (which I’m most definitely not) and was knocked down by a bus on the way to the polling station I will still be getting in there to cross my box of choice.

      Nothing will stop me from exercising my right to do so; something I have waited around 40 years to be able to do despite thinking (because I was always told) I was nothing but a dreamer living in fantasy land.

      Anyone can be as rude to me as they like; it is just words and because I am comfortable with who I am & the journey I have made in life I will never allow ‘haters’ free rent in my head.

      Vote Yes!

    78. Nana Smith says:

      Agree with everyone…definitely an eggplant!

    79. Stevie boy says:

      WBB done it again!

      2 undecideds + WBB = 2 Yes voters

      Plus when people go Yes, they don’t go back!!!

    80. Karmanaut says:

      @Pam McMahon

      I’m really sorry to hear you’ve had to bear the brunt of someone’s rudeness. Tensions are high because there’s so much at stake, but whoever was rude to you shouldn’t have done that.

      Please know that there are thousands more of us who really appreciate your contribution. All of us are making history here. Don’t leave us because of a bad incident.

    81. Edward says:

      I Wonder if Scottish MP’s that are sponsored by RMT or are connected to RMT, will follow their union and back YES 😉

    82. Lesley-Anne says:

      You silly boy Edward. 😉

      Put this cone hat on and go stand in the corner. 😛

    83. bjsalba says:

      I notice our egg-thrower had his lawyer say he admitted to be a YES supporter.

      I presume, therefore, he cannot be accused of perjury as nothing was said on oath. The lawyer is only obliged to repeat what his client has said to him. A lawyer is under no obligation to verify that what his client is true.

      What exactly has this man said or done that shows he actually is a long time YES supporter. For me a recent conversion smells of a brown envelope.

    84. liz says:

      @Pam McMahon – sorry I don’t believe you.

      Do you think that Nelson Mandela would have given up fighting for freedom because someone was rude to him?

      Bugger the 100,000 children put into poverty and 100,000 disabled folk disadvantaged by the UK but oh deary me someone was rude to me – are you sure your not Smurph in disguise?

      Do you know anyone with a printer, then get printing.

    85. Pam McMahon says:

      This is my actual name. I live in Caithness. The last threat of baseball-batting was on Caithness.org, where the poster also offered to insert a camera tripod into a convenient Yes-voting orifice, after I said I would take a camera to a Better Together meeting to see how many turned up. I don’t have any proof of other threats, because they were carried out without access to the internet, back in the day.
      Deacon Brodie’s is always chokka with ministers. I WAS there when the Hamilton by election results were announced, and was ejected after an over-ebulient reaction, which annoyed several Labour and Tory drinkers.
      DO NOT call me a plant. Do NOT suggest that I am having some kind of hissy fit, because Yes Highland ignores my frequent requests to help with this campaign.
      There are some quite short-sighted and offensive comments on here, and Tatanarse, as an old lady, I am jogging away from this website and taking most of my politically active generation with me.
      You are destroying the Yes vote with this kind of response, where everybody can see it. Sad.

    86. liz says:

      @bjsalba – yes definitely a plant but now he’s been convicted can we move on.

    87. Onwards says:

      There are always going to be arseholes on both sides.
      But I wouldn’t let some hurt feelings put me off a Yes vote in a million years.
      It’s far too important for that.

      If No wins, just imagine the smug arrogant faces on the Eton Tories and Nigel Farage cracking open the champagne, celebrating Scotland’s surrender to London rule..
      The cultural depression that would hang over Scotland for years, knowing that we bottled it as a nation…
      Screw that.

      No time for last minute doubts. We can do this.

    88. Edward says:

      Oh all right then Lesley Anne 😀

    89. DaveDee says:

      O/T re the egg thrower, why would his lawyer even mention his supposed stance on the referendum ?

    90. Colin Cameron says:

      And this is the beautiful thing.

      How many of you have met, spoken to or even heard of someone who says, “I was a definite yes, but after looking at all the information out there, I’ve changed my mind, I’m voting No now”?

      Where are all the “NHS for NO”, Farmers for the Union, Oil workers against independence and so on, like their counterpoints on the Yes side?

      The moment of realisation came for me at the Tarland Show this year. The Yes Stall was mobbed all afternoon, Men, Women and Children, sharing a few words, donating, waving Yes flags and Balloons, playing the lucky dip to try and win a miniature of Grouse. The Better Together stand was occupied by one of their so called Big Guns, Sir Marcus Humphries of Dinnet, and was deserted, save for the occasional passer by. No-one was interested. Apart from one 9 year old boy, (who may or not be my son, I couldn’t possibly say),who approached Sir Marcus and asked in his sweetest voice, Excuse me, Please may I have a No Thanks Balloon”, then proceeded to pull a Yes Badge from his back pocket and pop it in front of Humphrey’s face.

      (Adopts Foghorn Cleghorn voice)
      That’sa Ma boy

    91. seanair says:

      Pam McMahon
      From your post I thought that five times you were threatened by someone wielding a baseball bat in your presence. But now it’s down to one on the internet (plus a new threat of a camera tripod), and four others which you have no proof of.
      I say again Geezo and wonder which parts of Scotland could be so hostile to you. Did you provoke five separate people who chose the same weapon of retaliation? Amazing!!

    92. Truth says:

      Let it be on record that Pam McMahon is denying my 3 year old son a better future for no good reason.

      She is happy to tar us all with the same brush, yet complain about her own treatment.

      What a sheltered life she has lead if at her age she has never experienced the need for magnanimity in her actions.

      I certainly don’t condone her treatment, but equally I cannot condone her defamation of the vast majority on this site and her threat to withhold her vote.

    93. Famous15 says:

      FGS stop poking the scab.it will never heal that way. If Pam McMahon wishes to act in a way that city folk do not understand that is their problem. Pam is on record as having voted Green in the European elections because she was irate that Alex Salmond did not condemn the BBC for their biased programmes. Nope I would not do that because I realise that Mr Salmond knows how the world would view that but many on here were also irate that the SNP did not have a dust up with the BBC. As they say in Sutherland ” There is more than one way to skin a Rabat” or is that just Embo?

      Moving on…

    94. Fireproofjim says:

      Pam MacMahon
      So sorry you have felt hurt by a thoughtless response. I have had them too, and on this site.
      There are sometimes when people under pressure don’t get it right. I guess this is what happened.
      The prize is so enormous that we just have to keep battling on and ignore the apparent slights.
      It is not Wings that needs your vote, but Scotland certainly needs it.

    95. James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:

      Pam McMahon. Got your Irish blood up, take a chill pill, lie down, and hopefully rationale thought patterns will return soon. If not take two pills.

      Call me cynical but is this how you spell contrived?

    96. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just let the a lesson to you Edward. 😛

      I think DD you are raising the same question an awful lot of here are asking. As a lawyer there was absolutely NO reason for him to mention that *ahem* fact. In my, extremely blinked view, had he been a pro independence supporter and wanted it made known then surely the most obvious way of doing so would have been during his cross examination. The fact that it was left to his lawyer to tell the world that he was pro indy just ADDS fuel to the fire of suspicion!

    97. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just watching the news about the NATO summit at Celtic Manor in Wales. They seem to have landed a Typhoon fighter jet on the golf course and taxied up to the front of the clubhouse! 😉 I’ll bet the greenkeepers were ecstatic about having an aircraft land on their beautifully manicured greens. 😛

    98. Onwards says:

      @Pam

      The last threat of baseball-batting was on Caithness.org, where the poster also offered to insert a camera tripod into a convenient Yes-voting orifice, after I said I would take a camera to a Better Together meeting to see how many turned up.

      So it was a NO supporter? Who will be laughing if Scots vote NO because we have divided ourselves.

      Please reconsider your decision not to vote.

      The vast majority of folks on this site are decent people who just want the best for their country.

    99. He’s basically just paraphrased Mandella’s quote about hopes and fears.

    100. gfaetheblock says:

      Lesley-ann, the egg chucker plead guilty, so I don’t believe that there would be any cross examination. Would his lawyer just have giving context for sentencing?

    101. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks for that gfaetheblock, I’m still bemused by his lawyer claiming he was a supporter of independence. 😉

    102. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh look Red Ed travelling around Scotland in Labour’s big red bus with NO WINDAES! 😛

    103. Famous15 says:

      @lesley-Anne as opposed to his lawyer admitting he was part of a staged cameo to discredit YES. That kind of deception would have attracted a nice charge at Common Law leading to lenghthy gaol time.

    104. BuckieBraes says:

      Something is definitely changing. I know Yes is still apparently behind and we have to keep pressing on, but I have spoken to a few intending No voters at work in the last few days and it’s as though they are expecting a Yes win. The strange thing is that, upon being asked how a Yes victory will make them feel, they have all said they won’t be bothered by it. One went as far as to say he fully understood all the ‘Project Fear’ stuff on currency and the EU was garbage; but he was still voting No, well, just because.

      Of course, I’m still working on them. What an exciting two weeks await us!

    105. Lesley-Anne says:

      I was just trying to understand why anyone would actually want to have an *ahem* admission read out in open court that they were a supporter of indy. I don’t really see why that would actually help his cause.

    106. Robert Peffers says:

      @Pam McMahon says: 4 September, 2014 at 2:49 pm:
      “I have moved from Yes to “I’m not voting at all”, thanks to a rude and off-hand comment from Wings over Scotland on Twitter.”

      I can only surmise, no matter what WoS said that upset you, that if any form of insult is enough to reverse or prevent your vote for Scottish independence, then your reasons for expressing support for YES were wrong in the first place. You confuse WoS with Scottish Independence. A bit like those who say they will vote NO because they hate Alex Salmond. This movement is far, far bigger than either Alex Salmond or The Rev Stu Campbell – or for that matter and other individual or political party in the World.

    107. Grouse Beater says:

      Pam says: I will now not take any part in this referendum, including voting.

      I had a bad day too: third attempted burglary on my home, same young lads as before, getting more brazen by each attempt. Though my roof is leaking badly, rotten timbers, I cancelled the roofer as he arrived to start work – more fees lost – because any lead he was about to install will be gone by tomorrow.

      Oh, one more thing, had a tough discussion with an abusive unionist keen on taking more punishment from London’s elite.

      I will still vote Yes.

      Independence won’t lessen the chance of house break-ins, and I expect to get the odd barracking from disgruntled Anglophiles for months to come, but I am not voting Yes for my sake.

    108. dadsarmy says:

      First opinion poll now that shows YES in the lead will show that the Scottish Sun has always been behind Independence for Scotland, in spirit, but has been taking its time to weigh up all the arguments.

      Or something like that.

    109. donald anderson says:

      Iceland is selling 2 doz eggs for £1.50.

    110. Grouse Beater says:

      This movement is far, far bigger than either Alex Salmond or The Rev Stu Campbell

      Wait a minute- are you trying to tell me Stuart Campbell won’t be First Minister in an independent Scotland?

    111. Edward says:

      Lesley-Anne
      They didn’t want Red Ed licking them 😉

    112. dadsarmy says:

      @Pam McMahon

      I’ve been an Independence supporter for nearly 40 years. But I don’t agree with everything other Indy supporters say, and say so. For instance, I’m neither for nor against the nuclear deterrent, though I think we’ve housed it long enough in Scotland. There are other times I’ve expressed my disagreement.

      I’ve had posters suggest I’m a false flag, that I should not rock the boat, should not disagree, blah blah blah.

      Fortunately I learnt my posting “trade” in the rough and tumble of open unmoderated UseNet, and if anyone wants to tackle me, I’m up for it …

      Nil Carborundum Pam, don’t let the beggars grind you down. They have their way, you have yours. I do my own thing competely and nobodt tells me what to do, post or say.

    113. Jim Thomson says:

      @Grouse Beater

      Good grief no. He’ll be Inquisitor General. Far more fun but, a lot less pay.

    114. SquareHaggis says:

      @Lesley-Anne – plea in mitigation.

    115. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh jeez, thanks for that Edward. You do realise that I’m now going to have that particular image floating around my solitary brain cell all night now.! Thanks pal! 😛

    116. Andy smith says:

      What great news to come home to, my union (the RMT) getting behind the yes campaign, after a democratic vote was put to all my fellow Scottish members. So,fellow wingers,I feel that I’ve had the first winning vote of the campaign, only 2 weeks til the “double”.
      Incidentally, the late bob crow was on record as saying if he lived here ,he’d be voting yes as well.

    117. Lesley-Anne says:

      OK SH I plea in mitigation. There I’ve said it. 😉

      Oh you meant Mr Eggman pleas in mitigation. Gotcha. 😉

      I guess we really should stop getting upset with Mr Eggman and get upset with the judge. After all he has given Mr Eggman 80 hours community service for doing something FOR the community, I’m thinking it should be Murph the Smurph who should be doing the 80 hours community service. After all it was HIM who did the dis service to the community in the first place by turning up in Kirkcaldy high street!

    118. Paula Rose says:

      Darlings, darlings, darlings – the sweet old lady Pam McMahon has form (see Socrates MacSporran @ 3.33), now stop feeding and read my words “DO NOT FEED”.

      I had to stop eating them, as the Rev said to ignore – NOW DO THE SAME.

    119. dadsarmy says:

      I wish people would use google before accusing people of being “plants”. Here’s one result of the simple search string: Pam McMahon independence

      http://batemanbroadcasting.com/episode-12/

      I guess people know who Derek Bateman is …

    120. Paula Rose says:

      And if you don’t believe me – from WGD 23/8/14

      Pam McMahon says:
      August 23, 2014 at 2:50 pm
      Get out there in Caithness? Fat chance. Have now offered 3 TIMES to distribute the Wee Blue Book to undecideds and soft Nos, but no reply whatsoever from Yes Highland/Yes Caithness. Don’t even know if they’ve actually ordered any. Don’t even know if they actually exist at all. Have given up on Caithness ever joining the rest of the human race. Resigned myself to being the only Yes vote in the far north.

    121. Paula Rose says:

      I’d like to give you all my stories of those moving to yes, but I’ve got to have a shower – and for all new readers you can watch on the web-cam link here-

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/weebluebook/

    122. Tom Foyle says:

      Had a look at caithness dot org. It seems unlikely that one would be able to post insults on their forums. I can’t believe anyone on twitter, who’s a yes voter, would have treated Ms. McMahon in that manner. If she has problems with yes Highland, it’s probably because they know something – about her – that we don’t.
      Any yes voter I’ve had contact with bends over backwards to help get the information out there, to get the message across. Either she came up against someone who wasn’t what they were pretending to be, or, more likely, she’s not who she’s pretending to be.
      In the unlikely event that her experience(s) turn out to be genuine, it seems that she attracts trouble. Why should that be? Being threatened with violence half-a-dozen times hasn’t even happened to ME – and I’m EXTREMELY outspoken! So one has to wonder what it is she’s done that merits so many violent threats.
      Her criticism of the people on this site is unjustified. There is only one conclusion that can reasonably be drawn. As Paula says, Don’t feed her. Unless you feed her valium.

    123. Grouse Beater says:

      Jim says: He’ll be Inquisitor General.

      First thing he will do is reintroduce the stocks, set up in market squares up and down the land, foul and felons locked within to be pelted with … eggs.

    124. CM says:

      Well done Bill Leckie. Always liked him as a sports journalist, but cooled on him after reading his NO stance a few months back. Now, a nice swing to YES and he’s a good guy again 🙂

    125. dadsarmy says:

      @Paula Rose
      @Tom Foyle

      Seriously people, don’t call people “liars” unles you have proof. In this case I’d say you’re way out of line and should apologisee to the good lady.

      Conspiracy theories are one thing, trust is another.

    126. Blair paterson says:

      Pam sorry to hear about what has happened to but please reconsider your decision if you don’t mind I would like to help you by quoting something to you that was quoted to me when I was done a wrong ,when we have been done an great wrong we will not start to heal until we forgive I hope this helps you ., please for the children of Scotland Vote Yes

    127. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @dadsarmy
      Don’t listen to anybody else – be a man of independent mind.

      And vote for an Independent Scotland so we can determine out own destiny.

    128. dadsarmy says:

      @Dr JM Mackintosh

      What I say to NO voters who say “I can’t believe a word that comes out of Salmond’s mouth”, is “don’t believe any of them, from either side, they’re all politicians”.

      That always hits the right note. Another undecided.

    129. NODROG says:

      UK/OK – NO THANKS. ‘Nuff said?

    130. Paula Rose says:

      Just drying my hair – now, dadsarmy dear – I’m not accusing anyone of lying, knowing many good people in Caithness and many who have moved to Yes, I am somewhat bemused that the darling lady appears so alone.

      I am sure that, like me you could point her to many fabby fun people. I haven’t spent all this time in the shower, apart from a pedicure I also checked out twitter feeds from way back.

    131. McNic says:

      Bletherin with a stunch unionist/labour-man today, gave him the full-on indy chat.
      Explained my student labour history now SNP to achieve indy, said goodbyes and heading for own cars and he shouts me back.

      “So?” he asks, “Your voting Yes so you can vote for a Scottish Labour Party?”

      “Aye, but anythings possible with a Yes” I repied. With ma fingers crossed behind ma back.

      He walked of literaly scratching his head.

    132. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @Pam McMahon,
      My brother Alan is handling the WBB for the Inverness area.
      They are very busy as just received them in the last day or two.
      Will I get him to contact you?
      They are heavily oversubscribed – which is a very good sign.

      There are still two weeks to go so still plenty time and if you cannot get hard copies then fall back on the downloads and print paper copies.

    133. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @Lesley-Anne
      WOS wot won it – it has a certain ring to it .

      But we have not won it yet and will not if we keep falling out over the WBB.

      We are winning – no need to fall out – just keep doing what we have been doing.

      Stay positive.

    134. How come my comment is awaiting moderation?

      I have been posting on this site for a couple of weeks now. Ah well.

    135. Paula Rose says:

      @ James Caithness – do not take it personally and do not make a fuss, just accept and chill – I believe ‘chill’ is a word you youngsters understand. Us punks had a more robust vocabulary.

    136. dadsarmy says:

      @James Caithness – probably typed one wrong letter in the name / mail

    137. ann says:

      I find Pam’s comments about Caithness.com very strange.

      We used this Website a couple of years ago when my daughter moved up that way to study. By the way it’s a fanastic site and a great place to get information for the area.

      However we had problems with a landlord that was advertised on their site. I don’t remember a facility where you could leave comments, but we were able to contact the owners directly who dealt with the problem promptly and removed the accommodation from their site.

      Question is, if I thought about contacting the owners directly with the problem. Then when Pam, who seems to be a headstrong and intelligent woman, had problems with someone on the site. Why did she not do as I did?

    138. Patrician says:

      “May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears.” Nelson Mandela.

      @Jim Bo.

      We can’t rest now, I don’t want to just squeak over the winning line, I want Yes to go roaring over the line.

    139. Clydebuilt says:

      I read the Sun every day. to be polite, Bill Leckie used to be very strong anti Independence. For this man to have moved to YES, and for the details of this to be spread over 2 pages of Scotland’s biggest selling paper is an enormous bonus for the YES campaign.

      This is good news!

    140. Paula Rose says:
      4 September, 2014 at 9:15 pm
      @ James Caithness – do not take it personally and do not make a fuss, just accept and chill – I believe ‘chill’ is a word you youngsters understand. Us punks had a more robust vocabulary.

      This youngster was a teddy boy,

    141. Well it seems I can post again after Paulas block. still my comments are awaiting moderation.

      Please show me Paula where before your comment was any of my posts had anything wrong with them.

      Maybe better to just read this site.

    142. CameronB Brodie says:

      dadsarmy
      Does the allegation of multiple violent threats, not strike you as somewhat out of the ordinary?

    143. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m saying nothing. 🙂

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, previous comment to James and Paula.

    145. I see my last post on ‘off-topic’ didn’t have ”comment awaiting moderation” on it.

      Lets see here.

    146. Ah Paula must have left the room. And someone else is in.

    147. dadsarmy says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Did you read where she said “Wait till you’ve sat in the Deacon Brodie’s with a load of Church of Scotland ministers attending the General Assembly and listening to Winnie Ewing’s result in 1967, and being ejected from the premises, wait till you’ve been threatened with a baseball bat 5 times over the years. Wait till you’ve spent 50 years fighting a cause before you start sneering at me.

      Do you think she’s been fighting the cause of the Union for 50 years … or that Winnie Ewing was a Unionist?

      It was quite clear the baseball bat threats were from Union supporters.

    148. CameronB Brodie says:

      dadsarmy
      I have no idea who she is or what her past is. As such, I’m in no position to judge. I was only asking a question, so why get all shirty?

    149. dadsarmy says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      From your posting it seemed that you too were ganging up on her, if I got that wrong I apologise.

      Seems to me it’s enough work to persuade undecideds to YES, and NOs to undecided, without pissing off YES voters. Especially lifelong ones as I, personally, am positive she is.

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      I commented earlier, in a manner which was perhaps not supportive. If Pam McMahon is indeed a trooper, then I offer my apologies to her. I was just a little deflated that a supporter would give up so close to home, because of a breakdown in communication.

      I agree, the fight is hard enough. Btw, I was also having a wee dig at Captain D with my remark. 😉

    151. bugsbunny says:

      To Pam McMahon, could it be that the person who was rude to you was a plant? A plant that was testing the ground and being obnoxious to any newcomer. I used to comment on another well established nationalist website, and I made one remark about the death of an English MP and I was harassed constantly about this. To the extent I thought , “What the hell have I done”. Another time I asked if the Masons will be more No than Yes, an innocent remark, and since that time whenever I make a comment, the same individual, foams at the mouth attacking me. When I remarked on the Glasgow University’s No vote in their mock referendum, I said, that they were a bunch of horrah Henrys and henniettas. I was accused by the same individual of homophobia. When I robustly questioned him about his remarks, he brought up my questioning the motives of some High up Masons. You will always get twisted swine wherever you go. Please vote Yes, and damn this twisted individual to hell. He could very well be a Unionist Plant?

      Stephen.

    152. bugsbunny says:

      To Pam McMahon,

      Having thought about this a little, it didn’t take much to knock 50 years of supporting Scottish Independence, did it? I sincerely hope your not the plant, so near to Freedoms Dawn?

      Stephen.

    153. dadsarmy says:

      I think we all get our down moments, and the regulars on this forum probably get support from each other to help them get back out doing leaflets and stuff. All forums have regulars, the one I post, umm, a small amount in does as well. It’s natural to be suspicious of things a little out of the usual, but shouldn’t be taken too far.

      We all have our different ways, I do my own thing, as I have been this time around, for 32 months now. I gave up on the Guardian! I respect those who persist with the Scotsman and Telegraph. I couldn’t do it.

    154. dadsarmy says:

      @bugsbunny
      I think there are those who go around, looking for weaknesses. I’ve had a few trying to discredit me. Well, I enjoy that, it gives me ferocious laughter. My wife thinks I’m the full loony tune.

      Humour is one of the best weapons; unionists have no defence against that.

    155. CameronB Brodie says:

      dadsarmy
      I stopped with the Gruadian dadsarmy, when they started removing my comments without replacing them with the usual announcement. No personal attacks, no swearing, just dripping in cynicism. Ah well.

    156. dadsarmy says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      I did hope at one time that Severin would start reporting the truth. Silly me. At least Kevin McKenna (Observer) was able to look at his own previous views, and turn them around. Perhaps us regular posters at the time helped that, who knows.

      Severin used to seem to read the comments and take them in. Then he’d write an article which twisted everything out of sight, and it would be a closed article, no comments allowed. Incredibly dishonest “journalism”.

      I stopped posting because it seemed to me that to continue would help give the Guardian “credibility”. As though those who posted there accepted that it was actually trying to present facts not spin. Anyway, I had the misfortune to achieve post-moderation status at a somewhat better rag, one with a good Sunday sister 🙂

    157. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Just to get some clarity here, Pams implied that it was the wings twitter account which suggested she “bugger off” and ask Yes Highland, which it seems from her account she had been doing for weeks.

      Well several things- 1) Rev has been inundated with email requests for WBB which has been delegated out to the print organisers and thence the hub organisers. If Yes highland havnt responded to Pam then its hardly Stu at fault.

      2) If Yes highland havent asked for any WBB to then dish out to their area then they are at fault, at the very least by not replying to her requests for WBB.(Which should have been directed elsewhere anyway)
      3)My big Brur, intimated to her around 9pm that she may be able to get some from me at the Inverness hub, but there has been no response as yet.

      What to make of it?

      Dunno, but if I had been after Indy for such a long time, as I have been, I wouldn’t be off in a sulk

    158. dadsarmy says:

      @Alan Mackintosh

      “sulk”

      That’s nice.

    159. CameronB Brodie says:

      dadsarmy
      Well done 😉 I never got that far. I didn’t want to give them credibility either, as I thought continuing to post would be accepting their censorship.

      I stopped with the indi, as well, after the golden boy of socialism blocked me replying in the middle of a conversation, to allowed himself final word. I was spanking his arse, IMHO. 🙂

      Btw, whatever is easiest, but CameronB is less stuffy. I add the B so that I don’t get depressed when folk are slagging of DC, which is almost every day. 🙂

    160. dadsarmy says:

      @CameronB
      Poor David, and all he wants to do is talk from a distance.

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      dadsarmy
      If I remember correctly, my posts started disappearing after I suggested that I wouldn’t bother commenting as you lot had already handed Severin his arse. 🙂

    162. dadsarmy says:

      @CameronB
      I managed totally accidentally to lead him to an old SNP membership survey about NATO and other things. That embarrassed him 🙂 The NATO survey was in the event very accurate, but other things he used weren’t, forget what exactly.

      Someone posted a link to a twitter feed which showed him laughing and cavorting about what he was going to say next. That was what made me give up, though not straight away. I think it was when he was at an Edinburgh book review thing.

    163. CameronB Brodie says:

      dadsarmy
      I didn’t spend enough time in his company to get a gauge of the man, other than his judgement is wonky. Did you get any idea what might be driving him?

    164. dadsarmy says:

      @CameronB
      Fitting in with the London set I think. A common problem, you see many others effectively putting down aspects of Scotland to do exactly that. That’ll end soon.

    165. BB says:

      Anyone who wonders if those conversations with friends and family have an impact, read that article. This is how it’s won. With information and good conversations with each other. A country reborn with conversations over cups of tea, in village halls and over fences. Could bring a tear to the eye, that.

    166. CameronB Brodie says:

      dadsarmy
      This time or the next time. The demographic shifts over the next couple of decades or so, deepening austerity and London focused policy will see to that, IMO.

      Why bother putting things off and lessening the prize? Especially when you can almost touch it, now we’re that close. 🙂

    167. WIred of Hermiston says:

      @Garry Coburn

      You must have been reading a different Scottish Sun to me. They have been neutral to the point of irritation over the last year. Although eagle-eyed readers might have seen that things have moved somewhat since the YouGov poll….

    168. dadsarmy says:

      @CameronB
      Oh, this time, no need for another 🙂

      Anyway, work to do for an hour or so, night night!

    169. CameronB Brodie says:

      Night night.

    170. Scotspine says:

      @ Pam. Settle the gripe and reveal the twitter profile that told you to bugger off, otherwise be resigned to trolldom.

      Interesting how so close to the date, when the No campaign is beginning to founder, Pam, who has apparently been campaigning for independence for so long enters the forum to say she is jacking it in because she can’t lay her hands on a downloadable and printable document and an un-named wings twitterer apparently told her to bugger off.

      Put up and name the alleged miscreant that has spoiled all those years of campaigning or get out of the way and let the committed finish the job.

      To everyone else, the last two weeks are critical and infighting is what the opposition want. Make no mistake.

    171. CameronB Brodie says:

      I just remembered why we MUST do it this time. To prevent the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), opening up the Scottish NHS to the market. Unless you fancy balancing low-income and private health insurance, that is. If you are able to find an insurer who will take you on. Scots aren’t known for their good health and long life expectancy.

      http://www.patients4nhs.org.uk/eu-us-free-trade-agreement-or-ttip/

    172. donald anderson says:

      Not knowing the individuals concerned and not knowing what is going on in Caithness I could be very wrong in assuming the argument is petty compared to what is going on in the world, not least this wee country of ours which is going through a peaceful revolution. A No vote for many of us would be unthinkable and every individual here is close and important to us all. I would say to Pam and co. Come on get over it the world is full of wrongs rights and bogeymen. There are worse things in heaven and earth Horatio. There are aye disputes between family friends, colleagues and comrades.

      I am 77 and my back is like sieve and seen all the back stabbing on myself others I want to see, but I am still single minded for the cause. I could write a book on State harassment and unbelievable attempts to have me fitted up by the State. The Ubiquitous Twigs (Special Branch) have told me (and many others) on several occasions that they would have me homeless, unemployable, dossing in the streets and even killed. I have been shot at; stabbed at, driven at, baseball batted, but never egged, and had them approach my employers (Strathclyde Education Dept) They had approached my Head Teacher, teaching colleagues, pupils, friends relatives with lie after lie. They have told my wife I was having affairs to get me out of the house, arrested me and done their worst. Sorry, the list is endless. I have seen splits engineered in the SSP, the left and the SSP.

      Pam and whoever. They say if you leave this life with just one friend you have done well. I have been blessed many times over in that respect and travelled the world and the best is the best yet to come. I have a boattle of 32 year old malt waiting to open on the 19th and if I live to see that it has all been worth it. I have emphysema in one lung and arthritis in one knee. I knocked myself ill trying to leaflet last week. Instead, I hang about the Yes shop in Maryhill when I can and annoy all the hard workers.

      Apologies to all the greetin’ and happy faces here for being personal. Put you shoulder to the wheel; your nose to the grindstone, back to the wall, foot to the wheel whateffer it takes in Caithness and Castlemilk. But never, never, lie back and think of England, Labour Pinocchios and always let your conscience be your guide. Enough of the cliques. Get oot their there heid doon, lip trembling and over the top and think of the Mother of all parties to come in two weeks time. Do you want to miss it, or stay in the crème puff?

    173. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Had email from Wings central. WBB are being shipped to Thurso, for Wick. They will arrive so patience is a virtue. Outlying areas are being served by courier directly rather than from Inverness Hub. Yes Highland are not the distributer and would not have any say in where the WBB are going in any case.

    174. donald anderson says:

      I had hoped you all would have kissed and made up by noo. Tine’s running oot. You don’t want to be like Hitler in his bunker the last few days saying. “I’m surrounded by incompetents …”.

    175. Tom Foyle says:

      DONALD ANDERSON (Upper case because you have my full respect.)
      I thought I was the only one. Alone, paranoid, conspiracy theorist.
      It seems to be more widespread. Living in a reasonably prosperous area is no protection – in fact, one stands out like a beacon. A couple of cops turned up at my door last week, “looking for someone – did I ken him?” No. “Are you him?’ No. “Can you prove it?” Aye.
      On their way out – they insisted on being granted access – I asked them how they intended to vote. Not really expecting an answer. …..”Er….well,….er….” Are ye gaunna vote yes? I asked. “But if we did, it would make our job more difficult.” How? says I. “All the crims would bugger off down south and we wouldn’t be able to catch them.” Case solved, said I.
      What do you think would be best? “we’re not allowed to think.”
      I too have been threatened and intimidated. They told MY lady I was “involved with another woman.” Smashed my door in claiming a phone caller told them I was a drug dealer.
      I’m also physically impaired – asthma and Sciatica. And my partner of 22 years recently passed away, after which I was told I was to be evicted because “my name wasn’t on the tenancy.” I’ve been subject to stop-and-search on a regular basis – even though I have no drug convictions. (This is the excuse they use.) Perhaps I should take down the “Yes” posters in my window and remove the “Yes” badge from my jacket.

    176. donald anderson says:

      Tom, I happen to have written a “fictional” biography. No one would believe the truths anyway. Names and places have been changed to protect the guilty. Many in Good Labourite jobs noo. The main character is a “Jamie McCaddens”. I happened to be born in Coocaddens.

      I have held It back for noo, but would like to find a publisher after the Referendum. I tried a few about a year ago and was telt that there is no demand for this kind of stuff in Scotland. I allowed Bernard Ponsonby to read it and he said I should write it a s fact, as anyone with an nodding acquaintance of me knows that I am the central character. He said he liked it because it was not finger jabbing and should appeal to publishers because of its “quirkiness”.

      Ony interested publishers oot there?

    177. gerry parker says:

      @ Donald.

      It might make a good Screenplay too.

      Just like the BBC screenplay of the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists many moons ago.

      (Before the BBC got despoiled)

      Any good screenwriters out there?

    178. Gerry,

      Aye. but could they find a luvvie guid lukin’ enuff?

      It wisnae me. Ah wisnae there when I did it and the rest of the class were daein it as well.

    179. Jimmy Carstairs says:

      I want to clear up some issues I was hearing about, apparently the they have said Scottish serving soldiers are voting no. That could not be further from the truth. As a current serving member the swing is with the yes camp. We are not usually aloud to comment on political events however as this is bigger than that I have chosen too. I love my country and when I am serving abroad there is no greater draw than draw to come home. However I want a country that’s fair and at the moment no one in the uk is a getting a great deal from Westminster and it is to that affect that I am voting yes. If anything it will highlight the divide and the political crisis that Uk Gov has failed to admit for years. People in all walks of life are asking for reform. I believe in a fairer society. Today its 51% to yes but tomorrow it will be a Yes for life. Scotland deserve the chance we have earned it, We are the nation of leaders not followers. Its a can do attitude that we need and not what the better together campaign have been saying that we cannot not. Im not saying this with a blindfold I know as well as the rest us that at the end of the game the king and pawn will go in the same box. I would just like the game to be equal before it begins so every one has a fair chance.



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