On Catalonia and Scotland
This is a letter sent to the Scotsman this week, as yet unpublished by the newspaper, in response to this. It is reproduced here with the author’s permission.
SIR – I have read David Maddox’s article on Scotland and Catalonia (19th February 2013). As a Catalan that has lived and worked in Scotland for many years and also as a former Representative of the Government of Catalonia to the UK, I was surprised by the contents of the article.
The relations between Scotland and Catalonia have traditionally been excellent and since devolution they have become even better. How would you otherwise explain the lessons learnt from the Catalan political system when designing the devolution settlement for Scotland?; or the Scottish and Catalan governments Protocol of Cooperation signed in 2002?; or the symbolism associated with the fact that the Scottish Parliament was built by the Catalan architect Enric Miralles?; or even the extremely successful visit of the First Minister Salmond to Catalonia just a few years ago? These are powerful statements of friendship between two countries.
Catalans, and the rest of the world, know that Scotland is at the most important crossroads of the last 300 years. Now it is time for Scots to decide the future of its nation. We wish Scotland and its people well and we are very pleased to see that Scotland’s future is in the best possible hands.
Xavier Solano i Bello
Tiltman Place
London
WE await with bated breath the Scotsman’s retraction/clarification- not!
That’ll leave another mark.
Do you think they ever get tired of making themselves look stupid? I mean no one is doing this to them, they’re actively participating in their own embarrassment.
Well done to Xavier Solano i Bello, for putting pen to paper in the first instance. Now will the Scotsman have the decency to go to print with it?
Ouch thats got to hurt Maddox and the laughlingly called Scotsman newsrag!
The silence is deafening. Go on, shock us and print it as it stands. Thank you Catalonia!
Xavier Solano i Bello said
‘I was surprised by the contents of the article.’
Thats not a denial nor proof(not that you need any)
that Davey made it all up no doubt the snp supporters
can contact all those at the dinner and prove
definitively Davey lied.
@Nikostratos
Your ‘Davey’ Maddox didn’t provide proof that his story was based on fact either, the quotes presented did not provide any source(s) whatsoever, not even a given ‘spokesperson’ of a named group or organisation. This is either piss-poor journalism or something designed to hoodwink rather than inform the reader. Totally indefensible by the author and the editor of the newspaper.
God bless you Xavier, our unionists just make up stories and its thanks to people like you that show up their lies and distortions of truths. I remember full well last summer how wonderful it was when we all came together at the Edinburgh Rally, Catalonia’s support is as precious to us as Scotland’s support is to Catalonia.
I can just imagine the headline the hootsman could run with in printing the letter:
‘SNP and Catalonia in secret pact to undermine Madrid and London’
or
‘Holyrood building pays for Catalonia referendum’
However, probably a more fitting headline may be
“Maddox in push for new double glazing’, as I’m sure this is just an insurance job on his part after he claimed that Nats had ‘put in his window’
Do you think that Unionism actually attracts people who hava a tendency to lie or behave in strange ways. It can’t be a coincidence that lies, corrupt practices and a disregard for the wealthfare of people, e.g. turning a blind eye to poverty, go hand in hand with support for the Union.
It’s a bit like smoking, or burning people for witchcraft, or sending children down the mines. What was once acceptable is slowly becoming less so, but the people who practice it seem utterly devoid of common sense and certainly do not share a value base in common with decent people. Perhaps it’s evidence of a pathological condition. After all, it isn’t a natural condition to support actions that see ordinary people disadvantaged……and I include the current UK as a whole in this statement, because those who support the status quo, do not have the wealthfare of the populace in mind when they take such actions as Maddox and co take.
@Dcanmore
@LisaR
All we ask is some proof given the support
from the Spanish peoples this should be easy enough.
and the the Unionist’lies and distortions of truths. will unmasked ….or not
Or is it We trump your assertion with an exaggeration
and you raise a obfuscation.
@Nikostratos
Have you actually read the article?
Niko – that’s not how it works. When you tell a lie and someone pulls you up on it, you don’t get to say “ahhh, prove it’s a lie!” The burden of proof is on the person who made the original assertion – i.e. Maddox.
But I realise logic is not a strong point of Labour unionists, so it’s understandable how you got confused.
blunttrauma – Niko doesn’t need to read the article to peddle his pish. In fact, it’s probably beneficial to him that he doesn’t. It’s much easier to lie when you don’t know any better.
On returning to Scotland, after 40, years in 2000 I asked what was a good paper to read – the Scotsman I was informed. I persisted with it until about 14 months ago. Never in my experience from Hong Kong and many spots between there and Scotland have I ever known of a newspaper which has failed so badly. I read Andrew Neil was the cause of it all – no excuse, he is long gone. Surely the people who own and manage this paper know what they are doing. The Scotsman is, I can guarantee, the only newspaper I have come across which actively works against the country it is based in! Nowhere else in the world would rubbish like this have circulation – only in the cringe world, that some unfortunate Scots inhabit, would this disgrace expect any readership! Maddox is only a symptom of the decay, infesting the Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday, which has dragged this once great (i’m told) paper down. Don’t go there!
.Doug Daniel
Scottish law not a subject you are familiar with then eh?
and Daveys lie become my lies by association oh very fair
I have never passed through the painful disillusionment with the newspapers that others here have suffered. Back in the days when I bought newspapers, it was only for the crosswords. In the seventies you’d see me with a Telegraph: they had the best crosswords. In the eighties it was the Guardian. My favourite compiler was Bunthorne (the Dreaded Bunthorne, we called him). He died recently. Another favourite, Araucaria, may be terminally ill (there are clues). Oh, maybe I am disillusioned. There are no good crosswords any more.
@Niko.
It appears that English syntax, grammar and puncuation is something with which YOU are not familiar.
Ignore this guy folks. He’s taking up space, and I suspect most of it is Dark Matter.
Hey Niko
Seems you increasingly like the company of independence supporters. Curious about it huh?
I’d be too if my party of many years had gone full on One Nation Tory and I felt utterly betrayed deep inside.
I personally can’t believe what Labour have done too. Who’d have thought the party of the working man would have fallen so far.
Aye, well times are a changing and it’s time to move on. Feel free to pop in and let it all out!
the rough bounds plays rough
But on reflection
‘English syntax, grammar and puncuation is something with which YOU are not familiar.’
puncuation is actually punctuation notice the difference
Ha ha ha
scottish_skier says:
‘ utterly betrayed deep inside’
what should a free man do??
@Nikostratos
“‘ utterly betrayed deep inside’
what should a free man do??”
Independence is the only solution.
Niko
Thats not a denial nor proof(not that you need any)
that Davey made it all up no doubt the snp supporters
can contact all those at the dinner and prove
definitively Davey lied.
If someone said “I was surprised by the contents of your post”
I would take that as a polite way of saying “I think he’s talking a load of crap”
OT
FAO Rev. – have you seen this article? If I was in charge of writing articles for the anti-Tory part of the Yes campaign, this is pretty much how I’d do it. And in the Record of all papers…
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
@An Duine Gruamach
I think this has been around for some time. Still good to see it getting an airing in the MSM though.
Wow that lass’ll go far in the Tory heartlands. She ticks all the right boxes for the hard of thinking right winger.
what should a free man do??
Normally, they seek out the like minded. Which was what I was getting at.
Ouch.
Maddox is a U. Both Alex Salmond and Sr. Bello display display admirable and proportionate levels of support for their respective aspirations for normal levels of self-government.
As a culturalist I see the maximisation of the number and diversity of all national/cultural states to be a very good thing. The more the merrier.
However, I reiterate, if the cooperation between any two or more such aspiring territories elevates to the position of identity of process then it invites a commensurate cooperation between their respective current overlords in opposition. With the further danger that others may be more likely persuaded by their combined protests.
The Real Politik of international politics vis a vis ‘independence’ is very simple and not at all based on a rigorous examination of fundamental Human Rights philosophy. It goes like this. You are an independent country if most of the other nations recognise you as such. End of.
If one national government on its own objects to a part of its state becoming independent then it is likely to be seen as being imperialist/self-interested and will usually face a lot of international pressure to concede.
If however, the government of several states can cooperate in a general objection then that will cause a lot of the ‘neutrals’ to reconsider their position.
Put simply, it is one of those rare occasions where it is a case of ‘United we fall’ for the supplicants. (If ‘united’ is taken to the point of identity of purpose and claim.)
So far better the softly, softly approach by pursuing aims on a one-by-one basis and hence not frightening too many of the horses.
OT. UK overseas aid cash to be spent on war instead?
link to bbc.co.uk
Aid money could go to defence – David Cameron
there is no point getting upset with Niko.
he
is
a
timewasting
troll
with
no
moral
principles
or
belief
in
the
betterment
of his fellow man.
O/T
Martk Malloch-Brown interviewed by Glenn Campbell: You can listen here
link to bbc.co.uk
“Former UK minister Mark Malloch-Brown said that the world would be watching Scotland as the referendum on independence draws nearer.
In an interview with the BBC’s Glenn Campbell, the one-time United Nations deputy secretary general said people in Scotland would face a choice at the autumn 2014 poll that could have a lot of ramifications.
He speculated that a “yes” vote could change the international standing of both the UK and Scotland.
Mr Malloch-Brown, who was minister of state at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in Gordon Brown’s government, also believed the United States would be wise to keep out of the Scottish independence debate.
He told the BBC: “Foreign, unsolicited advice, is going to only anger Scots. Britain and Scotland should be broadly left to sort this out amongst themselves.”
On the issue of an independent Scotland’s place in Europe, Mr Malloch-Brown said: “My own guess is that, whatever the legal formalities in terms of the political will, if Scotland were to vote for independence, I think Europe would try to smooth its way into taking its place as a European member.” “
Thought I’d heard the name before, so looked him up:
link to scotsman.com
As someone who makes no secret about his intention to enter Catalan politics as a supporter of independence, he believes his experiences north of the Border had a profound affect on him. “I seriously believe that the best woman politicians in the world are from Scotland,” he says. “Wendy Alexander is one of the best politicians I have ever met and she is an extremely capable woman. My respect for her is very high. Then I had the pleasure of working for Nicola Sturgeon, who is also extremely impressive. Annabel Goldie is very formidable, too.”
Each to their own!!
@Erchie, You are quite right when you say there is no point in getting upset with Nico. This person quite clearly has a deep seated psychosis and is of limited intellect.
It would appear that he has stopped taking his medication and is going through an episode. So we must ask ourselves,how would he react to the following question?.
Do you think Scotland should be an Independent country or are you a moron?
@scottish_skier
I heard that announcement on the car radio this morning and almost swerved off the road. It’s staggering – millions in foreign aid will now be channeled to the arms trade. Who writes this stuff? I expect New Labour will immediately adopt the same policy – Johann Lamont would probably be happier with universal benefits if they were delivered at the point of a bayonet by Our Brave Lads.
O/T
What’s going on at Newsnet? I haven’t had a single comment approved for weeks now. It’s not like I’m being overly controversial or anything.
Farage making a predictable intervention on the independence debate in the Herald. If only we could get him on a platform with Darling, Cameron, Lamont, Moore et al, it would be the perfect illustration of the ‘Britishness’ they want us to cling to.
‘Scottish Nationalism is a fraud, Nicola Sturgeon appears out of her depth and the Scottish Government’s campaign for independence is “dead in the water” – according to Nigel Farage, leader of the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP).’
link to tinyurl.com
@scottish_skier & Vronsky –
re Foreign Aid to be diverted to ‘Defence’ – isn’t this just the logical end of overall Foreign policy? ‘Ever so-sorry chaps, but being pragmatic, cost-efficient, looking at the larger picture, thinking out of the box and after much soul-searching, we’ve decided that the best way to help you is, actually, to kill you.’
It’s only an extension of the same thinking which allowed William The Hague to stare straight into cameras and say, with a straight face, that our involvement in Libya was ‘for humanitarian purposes only’. Aye – we bring Democracy unto the infidels, but only after bombing the living daylights out of them. Plus ca change…
As noted in a past post, the Scottish Senior Citizens Party are more of an electoral force in Scotland than Frarage’s running joke of a party, getting a very respectable 70% more votes than SEEnglandIP in the last Holyrood election.
“As noted in a past post, the Scottish Senior Citizens Party are more of an electoral force in Scotland than Frarage’s running joke of a party, getting a very respectable 70% more votes than SEEnglandIP in the last Holyrood election.”
And indeed as noted in the picture caption. I wish there was some way of making those visible on tablets, phones etc. Must look into it.
BTW
Although my post looked like I was deeply affected by Niko’s psychosis, or by hanging around Order order it’s a weird fault from posting from my phone
I asked for it to be deleted but either Rev Stu is busy or it pleases him in some weird way
“Although my post looked like I was deeply affected by Niko’s psychosis, or by hanging around Order order it’s a weird fault from posting from my phone”
I decided to treat it as poetry.
@ Vrnosky * Scottish_Skier
Re: Cameron and aid – predictably perverse but at least he is open about it. Should we not take encouragement from his honesty and commitment to towards open government?
RevStu said:
I decided to treat it as poetry.
I honestly thought it was intended to be like that. It was quite effective and, indeed, poetic.
@erchie
It might have been accidental, but it actually looks quite impressive. I like it.
Rabb says:
21 February, 2013 at 10:14 am
“O/T
What’s going on at Newsnet? I haven’t had a single comment approved for weeks now. It’s not like I’m being overly controversial or anything.”
______________________________________________________________________________
It’s been quite obvious to me, and I have said so on here and Twitter that NewsnetScotland has been assimilated. Once they went down the road of heavy moderation and limiting the number of words in a comment, there was only one way it was all going to go. I do not expect it to be around much longer they were getting to big for their boots, and obviously came to the attention of the security forces that have been tasked with controlling Scotlands media.
MI5 have not set up shop on Pacific Quay because they like the ambience. They are there to infiltrate and manipulate what we Scots get to read and see and hear. BBC Scotland is another classic case in point. They do not even try to hide their Unionist partiality. If you think I am being paranoid, take a look at Caledonian Mercury who started in a storm of adulation, they are stuck in the same bog as Newsnet. So look out Reverend. It is a matter of public record that MI5 have been active in undermining the SNP for decades. link to bit.ly Why would they not be active in the MSM? Once you are mainstream you are a target for them.
The Scotsman have now allowed only a very select few to comment on their ‘stories’ as have the Herald and the BBC have just pulled the plug all together. They are working very hard and failing very badly and publicly.
My mate was blocked by Newsnet on twitter, she had words with that radical unionist Duncan Horshall (sp) and next thing when she tried to retweet a blog she found she was blocked. She asked why and he never answered yet she had in her eyes done no wrong other than insult the twitter Lab troll who annoys Yes voters constantly. I think its pretty petty as the blogs are good and I’d think he would want them retweeted as much as possible. Put me right off whoever runs their twitter account,seems they are selective in who they want to spread the word of Independence which is something we in favour of it cant afford to be. Its all about getting the truth out there and not using heavy tactics to block the very people who are on the same side as Newsnet……..or at least I think he is on the same side as us.
@erchie, morag
Tom Leonard defines poetry as a piece of writing in which the length of the line is determined by some consideration other than the width of the page. So it was definitely poetry!
@HenBroon
I think Caledonian Mercury was always a fake, not a sincere attempt which later became compromised. Not so easy to say in the case of NNS. I’m also depressed by the continuous low-pitched whine from Kenneth Roy round at Scottish Review, but at least he has some objective criticisms of nationalists: we have bad grammar, clumsy syntax and a dull prose style (but he said the same of the nation’s published writers so we’re in good company).
Re: Erchie’s poem. It forces you to consider the meaning of every word and weight up the balance of their interactions. Or am I just talking bollocks?
i-n-d-p-e-n-d-e-n-c-e
who
a)s w(eup loo)k
fuopruwpaurpdusp
SCOTLAND
ruipsingt(o-
aThe):l
fR
!e:
E d
(om
AlEx .sAlMoNd)
to
ofl(be)anat(we)io(ro)nagainf
,tdhriusntkle;
(apologies to ee cummings)
Vronsky
I disagree with you on the CalMerc. I think it was genuine, but hampered by a lack of funds. This was partly it”s own doing as it didn’t set up any kind of subscription that you could support it in the early days.
It became reliant on the people who would write for it for free as far as I could tell and, professionally, that meant the editor, who now works for YES SCOTLAND, and Hamish MacDonell, who always worked for the Union. There were a few outsiders who got allowed an article or two, myself for one, and I think a couple of familair names from the YES side got a look in.
But the money ran out. Rab’s diary went. MacDonell had a shot but he was so easily torn apart on that (by myself) that it was pulled and never reappeared.
Like the Rev I would liek a proper Scottish Daily that was at least even-handed, a return of the “Scottish Standard” if you like. Newsnet isn’t it, neither is the Scottish Times, and it’s not Wings Over Scotland either truth be told.
Barring a rich sugar daddy willing to burn millions to support such a beast, or at least a few hundred thousand for a wepapage and paid staffers, such a thing seems unlikely
LisaR,
Welcome.
You, nor your mate, are likely to be blocked on here.
You say:
“they are selective in who they want to spread the word of Independence which is something we in favour of it cant afford to be..”
Couldn’t agree more.
Glad you found this place. The point about Scottish independence is that it is inclusive rather than exclusive. Having been banned from Newsnet Scotland a while ago, it is time they called an amnesty, less they be called idiots.