Now You See It
Posted on
July 01, 2023 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
It’s merely sleeping, stunned . Useless is as Useless does.
Hahaha brilliant ?
It’s no’ a deid cat – it’s pinin’ for the fjords! Honest!
When I look at Humza in the graphic above, all I think of is the age old question, “would you buy a used car from this man?”.
The political class – updated definition: Those who sell snake oil. We really are well and truly in the post-truth world now. Heaven help us!
Yup, I think so.
Love hapless, Humza’s face
Monty Python’s infamous Dead Parrot sketch also springs to mind. ?
There are so many Schrodinger-like things in Scotland.
Our Oil & Gas, is both a dying (or dead) asset, but also worth billions to the UK economy.
We have the worse education system apparently, but rank high with OECD etc.
We have no economy, yet have some of the world-leading sectors (eg. IT).
If only we had a genuine media that told the truth, Independence would be a shoo-in.
Brilliant, again.
The ‘continuity candidate’ will soon have to face up to what he did.
Brilliant Chris.
Experience has taught us that previously ,every time the box has been opened , the “cat” has already gone.
This one doesn’t even exist.
Another Schrödinger’s situation is the Lord Advocate who put out a statement which said firstly she is a member of cabinet then was all about her independence and the COPFS independence. She is tied into collective responsibility but also free as a bird.
This is why Salmond took the LA out of cabinet so that position would actually be independent as operates in most liberal democracies. It certainly does in NZ. The Attorney General is one of the three pillars of the state.
At one point PM, AG & Governor General were all women. Actual women.
If Scotland were a person and some state functionary shot him/her in the head would there be protests and riots?
Scotland is not a person but the British state is nevertheless holding a gun to the head of everyone.
Don’t you dare! You will be made to regret it Jock!
Come on Hamza, grow the proverbial pair.
A very apt cartoon.
The face of a man you would trust as far as you could throw him.
TONY LITTLE
Sadly, it is in the nature of many humans to prefer the soft lie to the hard truth.
Soft lying keeps the political class in situ, it is comforting to the masses to believe the system has their best interests at heart, that it is fundamentally altruistic.
Disagree, and you will be given a large dose of the «hard truth» to restore the balance.
The writing was on the wall when we discovered during Alex Salmond’s fit up that the SNP was chock full of people “soft on independence”, the inevitable outcome was no cohesive way forward on self determination.
Unfortunately for Scotland there are people like the gingernuts still waiting for Nicola’s secret plan and for Boris to ‘grant’ us a referendum. It’s these people who support this shit show who are really to blame.
Allowing politicians carte blanche to do as they please is never a good idea and the witless wonders who buy into this nonsense by voting for Unionists, as that’s what the SNP can genuinely be described as by their words and actions, are a crooked bend when all we need is a straight road.
Excellent Chris.
Purring like a cat?
The sums are beginning to add-up.
Humza, counting seats as opposed to votes, a taxing problem!
UK authorities, happy to count their blessings.
Devolution by numbers!
One, two, three, four
One, two (one, two, three, four!)
Let me tell you how it will be..
Mugged Again!
Nice one Chris.
Its not just the current SNP’s de facto referendum that’s deid, it the entire party, it died after Alex Salmond stood down.
Vote Alba, Join Alba, get the SNP out.
@Alf Baird, if you haven’t seen this you may find it interesting.
Paul Hogan interviewed by Parkinson in 1979.
Turns out Hogan was the first to tackle and overcome the Australian ‘cringe’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmH3ei-sFfA
Great! sad but true!
I see the glen sannox delivery is slipping again
Asking for UK maritime approval and asking the supreme court to rule against Westminster.
I am sure I am not alone in suspecting a smell from whitehall phones ringing to say hold of approval and there is a wee gong in the post.
Very well done Mr C.
Getting the nuSNP to provide detail on anything is about as straightforward as nailing jelly to a wall.
Yet another policy, Marine protected areas, gets binned after much time and public money wasted.
These f***wits need kicked out pronto – they’re not interested in Indy and they f*** up everything else they touch, so other than shafting the Independence movement and Scotland’s economy, what is the SNP for exactly?
Tony Little says:
1 July, 2023 at 8:20 am
There are so many Schrodinger-like things in Scotland.
Our Oil & Gas, is both a dying (or dead) asset, but also worth billions to the UK economy.
Scotland has enormous riches of hydrocarbons under the sea and under our feet.
We could have the cheapest energy bills in Western Europe, rapidly moving people out of poverty by lowering the cost of living and creating more profitable opportunities for job creation.
But we’re being herded towards a crushingly poorer, massively indebted future where wealth flows from the poor to the rich to pay for expensive windmills and solar panels and the like, based on an unproven conspiracy theory that we can control the Earth’s weather patterns via taxation.
Do *you*, dear reader, think Lorna Slater, Humza Yousaf, or Rishi Sunak can “fix” the 4.5 billion year old climactic system of an entire planet? They can’t even guarantee you’ll still have uninterrupted electricity supplies this winter.
Scotland free, or a desert.
robertkknight, Red.
Are you both Alba supporters?
Red.
England has been robbing Scotland of its mineral assets (oil/Gas) for decades, now our renewables are also being stolen, England steals huge quantities of energy from Scotland, we are in a political union not a territorial one, but England steals it anyway with the help of House Jocks.
Our largest city doesn’t even have an airport rail link to it, our roads an infrastructure are in poor condition. England steals millions from Scotland every day using accounting tricks to hide our wealth from us, yet our people allow this to happen, basically they are allowing a foreign country’s government (with the aid of House Jock and the foreign MSM) to steal our children’ grandchildren’s futures by doing nothing to ditch this rancid undemocratic onesided union.
To add insult to injury more and more incomers are swarming up to Scotland from South of the border.
Good morning another day another bank account closed. Welcome to clownworld.
I had a telephone conversation this morning with one of my mates, who I hadn’t spoken to in a wee while.
He is not an SNP member, but he is a Yes voter and a believer in the immense benefits of Independence.
This is the first time we have spoken since Haunless Useless got the top job and my mate is definitely not impressed. However, he still believes Oor Nicola can do no wrong and that Alex Salmond is a mysoginist bully who should be cast into outer darkness.
I have tried for years to tell him he’s got it wrong, but, he cannot see it.
That is the problem we face. My otherwise sensible mate has been brain-washed into backing the wrong horse, and he’s not the only one. Until we finally get shot of the cult of Stuirgeon, we are nmot getting Independence.
Just remember the same clowns who couldn’t organise the building of two boats are part of the same clownshow which promises to provide all your needs and services within 20 minute of where you live at the cost of your freedom of movement etc.
This from Keystone Cops aka Police Scotland on the huge number of bigots set to flood Glasgow next Saturday as part of the O/O.
“Chief superintendent Stevie Dolan said: “Police Scotland is a rights-based organisation that puts our values of integrity, fairness, respect and a commitment to upholding human rights at the heart of everything we do.
“We are committed to supporting the human rights of individuals and groups who wish to assemble, balanced against the rights of the wider community and ensuring the safety of everyone involved.”
I wonder if I organised a Nabka day march or a demo day with regards to say, the sacking of Constantinople in 1453, or any such march exalting the victory over another religious group of people hundreds of years ago, would Police Scotland be so accommodating, I very much doubt it.
The O/O marches sow division in Scotland and aid the foreign government of Westminster in the process.
Another great leap towards globalist utopia,’20 minute bank accounts’.The amount of time you will have after you are foundit to have the ‘wrong’ views, after which your account will be shut down.
FFS SNP get your act together and stop making idiots out of the party and the people of Scotland. We are never going to get anywhere in a Westminster election with the majority of seats won.
We could be Independent in a years time with Scotland united, Scotland united has to get together now so we have a full year if not more to educate the general public.
Independence isn’t about who you like or dislike FFS its about a lot more than that.
I’m missing Izzie’s contributions. Nothing for ages. No report about the convention.
It’s got me wondering: Izzie really Pete Wishart?
If the SNP can’t run the fiances of a party and an assembly who going to trust them to run a country.
You have to be moron living in world cuckoo land not to believe that this police investigation isn’t going to come to an end just right before the next general election.
But with Scotland united all under one banner it’ll be a lot harder to destroy the SNP.
It doesn’t take a genius to realize that Scotland united with the SNP on board at the next Westminster election actually protects the SNP, because it isn’t about how the SNP has run the party its about Scotland and Independence, It has nothing to do with the SNP at all. If I was the leader of the SNP I’d be biting the hand off Salmond to get on board.
“SNP MSPs vote against Milly’s Law plan, which focused on amending the Government’s Patient Safety Commissioner Bill. It would mean the Commissioner would represent those affected by a major incident in health care safety.”
‘Milly’s Law’, named after tragic 10 year Milly Main, An independent probe eventually concluded that Milly died after “probably” catching a water-linked infection at the QUEH.
The problem the Independence movement has, is that both the UKG and the SG knows that if there was a Independence referendum their would be a overwhelming vote for Yes.
They are both desperate to stop any vote on Independence but it isn’t going to stop support its only going to grow even further, so why stop it.
1 UK doesn’t want to lose Scotland as a asset
2 SNP doesn’t want to lose their seats and the money Westminster brings to the party
These are the two reason that Scotland hasn’t went anywhere in the last 9yrs, this is what we are up against because the SNP has friends and family dependent on the SNP remaining as a party for their lively hoods, but if Scotland became Independent what reason is their for the SNP to continue as a party, NONE.
@RoS11:17
Wow, I was completely unaware that Police Scotland banned the Bannockburn March, due to have been held just one week ago, to commemorate something that happened in 1314.
Your righteous wrath that PS stopped that March from happening, yet will permit the OO marches, is entirely justified.
Haud oan, I have just been told that the Bannockburn March did actually go ahead! PS in actual fact treating all marchers, as long as they behave legally, equally.
So your justification for your greetin consists of your belief that we Sovereign Scots should only do things of which you approve. We are a free people, strictly within the limits you believe you are empowered to set.
Fuck that.
Merganser @ 11.21
Ooh, surely the lowest of blows, to even suggest oor Izzie could be Mr “When’s it ma turn tae be Speaker” Wishart !
Will he not be too busy brushing up on his keyboard skills in preparation for an enforced retirement to be popping in to WoS, anyway.
100%yes
Tak a wee keek at the boy on the left of the cartoon at the top.
Does he look like the leader of the free, independent, ancient, sovereign nation of Scotland?
A worthy successor to Wallace, Bruce, Salmond?
I’m calling out your “overwhelming” Yes vote as BS.
Get back to us when Indy has a true leader, worthy of the trust and respect of us Scots.
The SNP are an English Nationalist Party.
There’s nothing Scottish about the SNP. Their politicians won’t even put a saltire on their twitter handles. But they are honoured to kiss Zelensky’s toes.
Free Scotland.
Scotland United for Independence. We want it now.
David Hannah says:
1 July, 2023 at 12:13 pm
The SNP are an English Nationalist Party.
There’s nothing Scottish about the SNP. Their politicians won’t even put a saltire on their twitter handles. But they are honoured to kiss Zelensky’s toes.
=====
LOL Delusional. Always somebody else’s fault eh, David?
Sven @ 12.00.
Actually, I think I’m on to something with my suggestion: Izzie is a one club golfer, doesn’t answer questions, and seems well behind the curve. Just like Pete.
He is of course a prime example of Schrodinger’s cat as well, a paradox of quantum superposition, both alive and dead at the same time. I expect he’s gone to Copenhagen on his hols. for an interpretation of his condition.
If you replace the ballot box in Chris’s cartoon with a photo of Pete with a ‘Schodinger’s Cat’ label round his neck it has the same effect.
John Main
I would have thought Scotland United was a winner, regards to Humza he’s the leader of the SNP wither we like it or not.
I thought the whole point of the cartoon is Alex is saying that a majority of seat is already a loser and no one is going to take the idea that if the SNP wins a majority of seat the SNP is entitled start Independence talks.
Maybe you’d like to tell us all the best route of how Scotland becomes Independent, I’d love to hear.
I’m not signing up to twitter just to read a few posts – anyone know a workaround?
David Hannah regarding your two comments above
Your calling the SNP an English party and that your choice, can you explain to me how we get Scotland united without the SNP?
@RoS
“To add insult to injury more and more incomers are swarming up to Scotland from South of the border.”
A few days ago you referred to people being smuggled onto Englands shores as “boat people” as if they were genuine refugees. You appear to be against legal migration from England and for illegal immigration into England. Do you believe that Scotland is going to be exempt from white indigenous minority status in our major cities like England now has because we’re better than them and the homogenous international community recognises that?
When you make a seriously good job of governing Scotland using the devolved powers that you do have, then you will get more and more and then the independence door opens.
If it is any comfort, the Labour Party in Scotland are worse and not enough people will vote Tory for them ever to be a threat. So, it is still in your own hands.
The Grand Depart is today. I have been following the Tour de France for more than 40-years. Who wants to listen to Jackie Baillie when you can watch the Tour de France instead.
Re regular posts claiming that the SNP has been wrecked by the forces of the British state. This may well be the case but history shows that the forces of Bolshevism are not fond of nationalism and use entryism/salami politics to infiltrate a party and/or movement and take it over from within via smear, shaming and culls. Sound familiar?
What’s going on at SNP, is by design of policy. At no time has presentation of another referendum been genuine endeavour, either legally or morally.
Having almost exhausted their tactical misrepresentation of Scottish Sovereignty. SNP again setting out re-election, albeit repeated grand theft by misleading the electorate, realistically, this time around, reduction in the number of seats won, a foregone conclusion.
The above political manoeuvring, by SNP, seems to have factored in for the eventuality of reduced numbers in parliament. Deliberately or not, Devolution, then even more likely to prevail in Scotland.
Perhaps, the ongoing rise in support for independence was not factored in, leaving room for Scottish Sovereignty to rise to the surface!
The issue of English people settling in Scotland is made more acute owing to the age group to which they might belong. Scotland’s ageing demographic is being topped up by «imports» very set in their political habits. The Sturgeon initiative to turn the country into a gender fluid paradise has compounded the problem.
Be that as it may, the young will not stay in a land of old people no matter how fluid the gender. A younger Scotland might even be independent by now.
Only a ‘Scotland United’, shared policy could deliver 50%+ vote.
The above policy has nothing to do with the number of other Indy parties, SNP embracing ‘Scotland United’, the single most important demonstration of priority to the Scottish public.
The public’s lack of faith is written large in party policy and validated by the inaction of the Scottish National Party.
As things stand, the party will face huge losses. The most disgusting fact being, the party already knows this to be certain.
SNP has absolutely no intention of putting Scotland before the party, the final nail in their coffin!
100%Yes @ 1:30 pm
“can you explain to me how we get Scotland united without the SNP?”
The co-opted SNP elite front a colonial administration which by implication is anti-independence. As signed up Ministers of the Imperial Crown their main task, and that of the civil service and a range of other institutions, is to prevent independence.
On how colonialism ‘works’:
https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/wp.towson.edu/dist/b/55/files/2022/05/The-Socio-Political-Determinants-of-Scottish-Independence.pdf
The web page archive site is becoming very erratic to access.
«They» would seem to disapprove.
The internet simply hates the word «free».
The price of everything, the value of nothing…MONETIZE!
Cut their googles off!
Anton Decadent @ 1:42 pm
“Scotland is going to be exempt”
A colonized people and nation ‘is out of the game’. They have no control over their own culture, language, laws, history, economy, politics, matters of war and peace, or their borders.
It is not therefore a case of being ‘exempt’ from anything; a colonised people are subject to anything the oppressor considers appropriate for them. As Alex Cole Hamilton and other Imperialists have said, they simply don’t want Scotland (or by implication ‘Scots’) to exist; that is the essential purpose of colonialism and the ‘union’ hoax, as it always was.
German scientist works in Germany, Scottish scientist works in America.
https://archive.is/2WGcz
The UK, land of opportunity.
Alf, do you believe that if and when Scotland gains independence it would be a case of internalised racism for it to enforce border controls with the stated aim of not finding itself in the situation in which England and France now find themselves? Are both of those countries, which both have a colonial history, currently being colonised?
ALF BAIRD
The SNP made the error of attempting to make devolution work instead of exposing it for the insulting mean deal it is.
There can be no rapprochement or accommodation between forces totally in opposition.
As in real life so it ought to be in «real» Scottish politics.
When Scottish politics gets real, the world will take notice.
@Alf Baird, I’m reposting this from 9.48 this morning.
Paul Hogan interviewed by Parkinson in 1979.
Turns out Hogan was the first to tackle (and capitalise on?) the Australian ‘cringe’. His comments on American and ‘Pom’ humour are interesting.
Australian cringe? Who knew?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmH3ei-sFfA
As usual Chris brilliant artistry
As for Humza Useless (NOT MY FM)I wouldn’t trust him to run a nursery
Can anyone possibly explain to me why Alex Salmond was persecuted day and daily by the MSM for hair pinging and FALSE accusations by a person PROVEN not to be at the location of the accusation , and then DRAGGED through the courts twice to prove his innocence which he did
WHY then do we have these deviant politicians who have committed sexual assaults on innocent people walking FREE without any criminal charges being brought against them, not only that they are openly looking to be selected again for political office with the support of their fellow deviants in the Scottish Nonce Party, WHY are the MEDIA and the justiciary not OUTRAGED by that
I agree with the premise that genuine endeavour for independence, would most certainly deliver.
To date, the international community has observed the Scottish National Party, ‘toy’ with the electorate (to put it mildly). Some might conclude… the Scottish electorate continues to be sorely shafted by the Scottish National Party!
The constant whining from SNP in the House of Commons, viewed as hypocritical bullshite, from every quarter, here and abroad!
@100%yes 1:14
Best route to Indy?
Show us the money.
Unless you wish to claim that of all nations and ethnic groups in the world, we Scots are uniquely averse to getting personally and nationally richer.
In which case, the 30 years greeting about Scotland’s oil & gas being stolen was spectacularly ill-advised.
Don’t worry, it wasn’t. That’s the route to Indy. Forget Culloden, 1707, and the rest of the historical guff. Just like the majority of Scots already have. Lay out the clear, understandable, comprehensive, plausible explanation of how post-Indy, Scots voters and citizens will be better off. No just have faith bollocks. A logical, rational, grounded, realpolitik plan.
It needs grown ups to make it work – competent, articulate, savvy politicians, economists, negotiators, civil servants, etc. All the talents the SNP and the Greens lack.
“A few days ago you referred to people being smuggled onto Englands shores as “boat people” as if they were genuine refugees.”
Anton Decadent.
Firstly I used the phrase boat people because that’s what the English government and their state propaganda machine the BBC used, how do you know they aren’t genuine refugees, there’s no longer a legal route for them to enter England. Of course if you are a white 404 you get access and all trimmings to go with it.
“You appear to be against legal migration from England”
There’s no legal migration for the English to flood Scotland, we Scots have no say WHO enters Scotland, a foreign country’s (England) Home Office decides who can and can’t stay in another country, no other country on Earth would put up with it, and its only possible for this to happen due to apathetic Scots and treacherous f*ckin House Jocks.
Ask yourself why Scotland has a population of 5.5 million and England has a population of around 50 million, the foreign English government wants to keep the Scottish population small and manageable and with an unknown number of English folk (500,000 in 2014 almost a decade ago) now living in Scotland it will only get worse for those who seek to rid Scotland of this ball and chain union.
RoS,
there’s 750,000 Scots living in England (2021 census). So what’s your point?
Main@11.52am.
Scots were fighting for their freedom at Bannockburn, and the freedom of their nation, Bannockburn commemorations should never ever be banned, the religious O/O is nothing more than a bigoted outfit with the interests of a foreign country (England) at heart.
Oh they’ll tell you something different, but take in one march in my home town Glasgow and you’ll see just exactly what they stand for today 4,000 of these Westminster footsoldiers swamped my town, blocking roads, pissing in the streets, singing anti-Catholic songs, growling at innocent bystanders because they disapproved of their behaviour. Police Scotland turned a blind eye to most of it, afterall they have sworn their loyalty to the English crown, I could’ve sworn one or two of them forgot where they were and marched in step along side these Neanderthals.
I recall the same animals in the evening of September 18th 2014 when no has won, gathering in George Sq in my home town singing obscenities giving the Seig heil salutes, waving the Butcher Apron and tearing up the Saltire, before some of them went on a stabbing rampage in and around the square.
So don’t ever try and compare the O/O to Bannockburn and its commemorations.
Down with the union.
“Lay out the clear, understandable, comprehensive, plausible explanation of how post-Indy, Scots voters and citizens will be better off.”
Pft..
Instead Main why don’t you regale us all with the benefits of remaining in this rancid union, if and its a big if you can find any. No conferring with your Denison buddies now, and no phoning Reeves or Fleming for help. Mind you the DG of Mi5 the utter House Jock and Glesga boy McCallum might help you put down Scotland.
Highlander,
The Land boundary between Scotland and England was established in the Treaty of York in 1237.
It is still one of the Oldest borders existing today.
Now when you apply the hoax treaty of union to that treaty border, what happens?
Well Scotland was defined as a Country and with a border in the fallacious treaty of Union the exactly same as England.
To cut across, steal or or alter that Scottish border especially as the treaty defines “two Countries” would obviously cause a border breach in the treaty.
Altering the treaty of union in its entirety, stealing part of the Scottish border as it was, also steals the treaty of union over to a one sided treaty of union, that of Westminster parliament in England.
That the parliament in England has always known where the Scottish border was even while passing the steal of Scottish border waters or preparing for the Scotland Act, but continued on regardless alters where the original treaty of union sat geographically and legally,
If the additional information from ( Salvo) that Scotlands territory was never included in that 1707 treaty, then it is purely colonial.
“there’s 750,000 Scots living in England (2021 census). So what’s your point?”
And their presence does absolutely f*ck all to tip the balance in a country of 50 million when it comes to voting, however 500,000+ English folk living in Scotland really does affect the outcome of a vote especially a constitutional one if they are all enfranchised.
The English have already f*cked the Welsh from getting anymore EU subsidies (Wales was a frequent recipient of them).
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/22/english-people-wales-brexit-research
My point is there are too many English folk in Scotland and we need to find a way to stop more from flooding in.
“Your comment is awaiting moderation.”
Some people here clearly cannot cope with opinions other than their own being voiced and go greeting to the owner of the site.
Evidence on demography of Scotland and the implications.
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/65000/html/
Compared to independence for my ancient ancestral homeland, Scottish independence is a classic «walk in the park».
Stop the self laceration, and get on with the task.
“The best route to indy”
Go out the same door we came in,
Walk away,
No Scot has yet been asked if the want to join a treaty of union with England…..That slips quite a few peoples minds,
Queen Anne was not Queen of Scotland in 1707 nor was she Sovereign in Scotland when she used the Seal of Scotland in 1707, when she made a personal choice to join a faux union.
Both the parliaments articles once ratified to the treaty of the union became void when both parliaments were extinguished.
Although there is ample evidence the Old Westminster parliament of England pulled a fast one on Scotland by not ceasing to be active or extinguishing itself.
Thus only one Country in the treaty of a hoax union.
RoS,
on the contrary, now that the SNP have so comprehensively fucked the cause of Indy, there will be far less fear of Indy happening, and another 500,000 English will think that it’s OK to retire there without fear. And they will all have a vote, and being pensioners, will see it as their duty to vote whenever there’s an election or even a referendum.
Excellent, Chris. Schrödinger’s cat: it’s either alive or it’s dead. Just like the SNP’s commitment to independence. It’s alive when they want your vote, it’s dead when they need to act.
Ian Brotherhood @ 3:30 pm
“Australian cringe? Who knew?!”
Thanks Ian. An interesting perspective from Hogan, the self-proclaimed ‘ethnic comic’. Former British Dominions also have to address other layers of oppression, of course.
University of Aberdeen, School of Law. By Scott Styles.
Brexit.
Article 50,
The Royal perogative is not a reserved in the Scotland Act, or for that matter to Westminster parliament.
The Scots under the artcle of the union and Article 50 could end the treaty of union without permission.
Better understood if independence supporters read it themselves in its full context,
Interestingly it was wrote by someone whom seems to favour the union,
Snp never mentioned this.when they took the money,
“and another 500,000 English will think that it’s OK to retire there without fear. And they will all have a vote, and being pensioners, will see it as their duty to vote whenever there’s an election or even a referendum.”
If they haven’t already done so, the half a million figure is almost a decade old.
This is why a residency time period MUST be enforced when the time comes.
Anton Decadent @ 3:23 pm
“the situation in which England and France now find themselves”
..is clearly a consequence of their efforts to colonise and plunder many of the world’s peoples and nations. Oppressed peoples in the colonies were taught to aspire to be culturally English or French and told that their own national culture and identity was subordinate and invalid; some of them (mainly the collaborative bourgeoisie) actually believed this hence their preference after independence to live in London and Paris instead of Lagos and Algiers.
Colonial and cultural assimilation means that even some (bourgeois) Scots clearly prefer to be culturally English/British. Colonialism is always ‘a co-operative venture’ (Memmi; Fanon) and Scotland is nae different.
RoS,
a minimum residency period is a very difficult sell. If people retire to Scotland, pay taxes there and spend into the local economy, and are U.K. citizens, then there’s going to be a huge amount of anger if someone tries to deny them a vote.
Can’t see it happening.
O/T: HSBC head is in a transman relationship. The couple are Patrons of Mermaid. Says Re on twitter [visible via Barrhead Boy’s blog screen].
The Rev’s bank account was with HSBC.
Surely there is no causal link between the two facts? 🙂
Sarah, that’d explain a lot.
“then there’s going to be a huge amount of anger if someone tries to deny them a vote.”
It would only be a denial of a vote on a constitutional matter, other nations do the same.
To a Scot Abroad: Explain how a person- especially retirees – moving to another country should without a substantial period of occupancy be entitled, and choose to vote on their adopted country’s political future.Further, what kind of person would choose to essentially interfere?
On local services issues – buses, train services, waste management, no problem.
@Alf Baird (6.54) –
It’s interesting that even the newest colonies were subjected to the same shite as the oldest.
Here’s another example featuring naturalised Australians not putting up any pish.
Clive Anderson vs The Bee Gees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdvfmGPDVkk
Le Grand Boucle started today. 3-Weeks of fabulous cycling through the French countryside. I’ve been following it for 40-odd years, but it’s an unfamiliar route this year.
It can be a dangerous sport. I took part in it for years and was never involved in anything serious but the potential is there for accidents to happen and so let’s hope that it all goes safely for them.
Forget all of this Holyrood gash for a while. It’s going nowhere anyway and, however bad it gets for the SNP, it’s worse for Labour. No-one should forget that.
Of course the SNP are not an English National Party, they are as Scottish as me and you, but they are not dedicated to Independence, rather to self promotion and self enrichment. Basically they are a cult with tens of thousands of befuddled members who have in US parlance, have been “Drinking the Koolaid” for years.
Many here were amongst them even after the corruption of the Salmond inquiry was expose.
Shit for brains just about covers it and we need to shut up shop and wait for a new uncontaminated generation free from present illogicality’s.
Great cartoon.
It’s a shame Ash wasn’t voted. She’d have sorted the wheat from the chaff. Alba has the same idea.
That would have ended the stalemate once & for all because yoons aren’t living in Yoon reality with SNP mitigation.
Vote indy or vote Unionist in every single election.
If it’s a Unionist win – fine. Live with Unionist policies & with it an end to £millions of mitigation. Pay tuition, elderly care, prescriptions, eye & dental checks, nursery places, school meals, childcare, bed tax, dementia tax, council tax…
That’s what’s needed to end the impasse & then we’d all know where we stand.
Or take the YES movement out of politics altogether & build our own case cause there will always be the danger some fecker deliberately fcks it up with some wackadoo policies or conduct unbecoming & we’re all back at the start again..
I hate the SNP. There’d be no SNP in a United Scotland because no one party has the overall vote. It’d be a collective.
2026 can’t come soon enough to get the SNP out of Holyrood. What’s the betting the yoons all start voting for them now knowing they’re not planning to go anywhere! Jeez..
I left the SNP over the Salmond debacle.
I did vote in GE2019 as she was going up against BoJo but that was only after a twitter pile on where I said I wasn’t voting.
I relented in the end BUT I should’ve stuck with my gut instinct. It was right. They’ve done FA done there yet again.
That was my last ever vote for them.
The ppl hanging onto the SNP aren’t serious about Independence. When they treat it as a popularity contest you know they’re fcking zoomers from the get go..
republicofscotland @ 5:56pm
All part of the divide and conquer agenda to keep the dumb fighting each other while the Mafias that own and control us all get on with their agenda. The laugh is both sides of the – oops nearly said Old Firm when was half of that is DEAD – Sevco and Celtic mobs are loyal to the EXACT same Crown only that are unaware of it because like most people they never use their brains to question if everything that they have been told is true.
With these Orange Order/Rangers idiots they are clueless as to the FACT that William of Orange had a FAKE title – The REAL House of Orange was actually a small region/family of Catholic France whose male heirs had died out a couple of centuries before. A woman in Holland was checking through her family tree and saw that one of her female ancestors came from that family and since that line and title had died out she just gave the title to her own son in Holland – just like that.
The biggest laugh is the Protestant church is owned and controlled by the Vatican like all religions are and just like all of the Royals are as well. As you all know Henry VIII kicked out the Vatican during his reign because he wanted to do what he wanted – like kill his wife etc – and England and then UK was free of the Vatican up until the Vatican sent over William of Orange to retake the UK on their behalf. Henry VII made the mistake of not getting rid of the City of London Private Corporation which is NOT part of the UK and is owned and controlled by the Vatican just as the Washington DC Private Corporation is NOT part of the US and is owned and controlled by the Vatican as well. The first thing that William of Orange did was set up the Bank of England Private Corporation in the Vatican’s City of London Private Corporation.
The Crown is actually the City of London Private Corporation on behalf of the Vatican – the Kings/Queens only get to reign with the blessing of the Pope. King John signed a Charter handing over his Kingdom to the Vatican in 1213 binding his heirs for all time to that Charter. When the Barons forced King John to sign the Magna Carta in 1215 Pope Innocent annulled the Magna Carta and handed the Crown over to the Vatican’s City of London Private Corporation.
Like I said even before this the Kings/Queens were owned by the Vatican hence why everything went to the Vatican for approval back in those days such as the Declaration of Arbroath which was a grievance document that was approved by the Pope and the Magna Carta grievance document that was annulled and refused by the Pope and why the French King petitioned the Pope on behalf of William Wallace after he was captured by the English and he refused.
Scotland was owned and controlled by the Vatican as well under the St Clair’s now Sinclair’s via the Vatican’s Knights Templar’s before that was later moved down to the City of London Private Corporation as well. The Vatican with the help of King Phillip of France had long wiped out and taken over the Knights Templar’s.
The Vatican has always been – with the aid of their puppet Kings/Queens – flooding other countries with people to take over those countries or just plain sending armies to do so. The Vatican with their puppet Kings/Queens have been taking over the entire planet under their 1452 Doctrine of Discovery. Like I said already they have been flooding our countries with immigrants to get rid of countries and bring down all of our wages and conditions. The Vatican and Queen, King etc sit in the background as if everything that is going on is nothing to do with them and let it seem as if it is the WEF, UN, Bilderbergers etc that are bringing in this NWO One World Communist Social Credit Government etc agenda.
Go watch the video “Pateo TV presents; Openness On Orange” on the PateoMediaInter Youtube channel exposing the FAKE House of Orange. This is a Dutch channel in English.
Again my video “The Democracy Illusion Everything Is WAS A Corporation” on my William Woods Youtube channel also exposes the Crown/Vatican as well.
Like I said the laugh is this is the Crown that these Orange/Rangers bigots are so loyal to as are those on the Celtic etc side as well. They REALLY are the people 🙂
there are multiple schrodinger cats for indy
– scotland as colony / equal partner in the union
– scotland as heavily subsidised backwater / treasure trove of natural resources essential to the UK
– a people who has punched far above its weight in world history / a people genetically and intellectually incapable of governing themselves requiring the firm but fair pimp-hand of the anglo
the analogy breaks down because the SNP will never open the box, never collapsing the wavefunction
the SNP will move on indy when the heat death of the universe was 5 minutes ago (physics analogies, over)
RoS and Velofello,
the issue with what you say (and it does apply in other countries, as you say) is that we are all citizens of the UK, not of Scotland or of England, Wales, or NI. There’s no legally recognised distinctions. While historically we are two nations, a Principality, and a Province, in practice we are all a single nation called the UK.
So while a (for example) Dutch resident of Edinburgh might reasonably be denied a vote in an Indy Ref, the law wouldn’t allow for a Londoner resident in Edinburgh to be denied the vote. We are all citizens of the UK, and Edinburgh is in the UK, and the citizen is perfectly entitled to cast their vote on a UK matter inside the UK.
Billy Carlin.
Interesting stuff, I do try to keep an open mind.
On King William of Orange, it is said that Pope Innocent XI may even have financially supported William of Orange in his campaigns against France, and he famously ordered the singing of a celebratory Te Deum in Rome when news arrived of William’s victory over James at the Boyne.
Yet O/O members and hanger ons laud him, most of course are just mindless foot soldiers, who’ve latched on to this way of life or had this nonsenses drummed into them by family members, that religious hatred is a way of life, this divides Scots society and makes it easier for Westminster to control Scotland as a whole.
After our ain folk were slaughtered at Culloden, Cumberland’s men harried the highlands, burning homes and driving off cattle. The British government determined to destroy the highland way of life, forbidding the wearing of highland dress, the carrying of weapons and passing laws against the clan system.
Cumberland was initially fêted for his victory. The flower ‘Sweet William’ was named after him, and Handel composed the oratorio ‘Judas Maccabeus’ in his honour.
“we are all a single nation called the UK.”
We are NOT one nation, Scotland is a separate nation to England we are in a political union via a international treaty, a treaty that can be dissolved as clearly shown in the Edinburgh Agreement, the border still remains, even though the maritime border was illegally moved in 1999 by Westminster so that England could steal 6,000sq miles of Scottish waters, now when you look out at North sea at Carnoustie golf course, well within Scotland’s borders, you are looking out at English waters stolen from Scotland, English governments have become adept at stealing from Scotland over the years.
Oh here comes the ‘One Nation’ pish…Zzzzzzz
Scotland is a country. Seperate & distinct with its own legal system, its own education & its own NHS.
Stop Embarrassing yerself. Go tell an English man he doesn’t have a country – see if yer face is still attached later..
RoS and Velofello,
a thought. How would “Scottish” be defined if, following your argument, half a million newcomers should be denied a vote in any future Indy Ref?
Nationality from a different country (ie what passport they hold)?
Residency?
Residency for a minimum period?
Ethnicity?
Bloodline? And at what level of dilution from pure?
It’s fearfully complex. It’s a set of overlapping Venn diagrammes. It’s probably beyond the capacity of government to administer.
So they would default to residency. They could exclude non-U.K. citizens reasonably easily, because that information is held. But for the rest, too difficult, too contentious. Especially as there’s no legal distinction between the Scots, English, Welsh, and Northern Irish, but we are all citizens of the UK. And no government would wish to decide how many ethnic grandparents allows a certain citizen to have a say on an Indy Ref.
And then there’s 750,000 Scots abroad elsewhere in the U.K. Do they get a say?
In a modern democracy,
*the law wouldn’t allow for a Londoner resident in Edinburgh to be denied the vote.*
It can. A country decides who votes. Not England & there are legal protections Under international law from a country being voted out of existence by immigrants or everyone would be doing it.
EU citizens didn’t get a vote in Brexshit or general elections.
Go complain to England thier rules are wrong. See how far you get..
“a thought. How would “Scottish” be defined”
You don’t read too well do you, further up the thread I said a residency time limit for those not born in Scotland would be the criteria on a constitutional vote.
If you are born in Scotland and live and work in Scotland you automatically qualify for a constitutional vote, the rests ability to vote on a constitutional matter is down to residency time.
In any case in my opinion there won’t be another indyref, it will be the 50+1 route out of this union, ( Again residency time MUST apply)the Rev and the likes of Ash Regan explained the route well, every election (when an indy minded FM is in place) will be treated as an election to dissolve the union and when the 50+1 is achieved Holyrood declares Scotland out of this union and an invitation will be given to Westminster for a sit down on how to disentangle Scotland from the union.
@Alf Baird
So mass population transfer by Globalists is not a factor? Are they moving to France and England as revenge?
I had a post earlier not make it through possibly because I pointed out that the people smuggling is being carried out by a coalition of organised crime gangs and NGO’s/Non Profits/charities.
Residency. 15 yrs+
Geri,
yet more pish from you. Under the Scotland Act 1998, Scottish residency of U.K. citizens allows them to vote in Scottish elections. It’s the same root right as in PPERA, and multiple other U.K. laws going back to the 19th century.
Go and complain to an advocate, and get her to take your complaint up. If you can afford it. See how far you get.
The law is the law.
The Scottish parliament decides who votes, except in a UK Westminster general election.
That’s why SNP changed the franchise to 16/17 yr olds & EU citizens who can vote in Scottish elections.
Republic of Scotland
Spot on. There’ll be no ref. That route is now closed & the time for asking is over.
50%+1 at every Election from now on.
If it’s a Unionist FM. Fine. Live with Unionist policies because as far as I’m aware the Unionist parties cannot have two separate policies under one party. It’d be Unionist policies nationwide.
RoS,
I read quite well. I saw that comment about a minimum residency.
Unfortunately for you, it’s pish. The existing laws don’t allow for it. And you in Scotland can’t change it, because the existing laws are reserved.
For anybody who hasn’t heard, I believe that there is going to be a very interesting Court Case in the High Court of Scotland on Wednesday, 5 July. I have just logged on to the High Court website and – surprise, surprise, their computers are malfunctioning and cannot give any details about Cases being held on 5 July!
I believe that someone is going to bring a case up about the Anglo-German King of England having no right to be King of Scotland (or more correctly, King of Scots) as he is not prepared to sign the historical documents which would give sovereignty to the people.
I have only learnt these facts from people who have been Independence supporters for years and they are not “rumour mongerers”, but neither do they give away too many facts!
I just thought that other Independence supporters would be interested.
No they aren’t.
SNP has already changed laws on elections numerous times.
*The term from 4 to 5 yrs
*16/17 yr olds
*EU citizens
*Refugees
*Prisoners (dunno if that one passed)
Horseshit it’s reserved. Only the UK GE belongs to Westminster voting.
Republicofscotland @ 10:33pm
Yep – The Vatican also funded both sides in the American War of Independence and the Civil War via the British and French Kings and the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence was written by Bar members/Freemasons controlled by the City of London Private Corporation who also built the Vatican’s Washington DC Private Corporation.
The British Queen/Kings have been the Pope’s Arch-Treasurer for France, as well as the UK, Ireland, Commonwealth and US, ever since Napoleon escaped from this scam system and was taken out and France brought back in. Like I said before we have always been getting lied to and as they say it is the Victors/Mafias who own and run this scam system that write the history.
Go watch the excellent videos on the Patrick Davis and also his sovereignliving Youtube channels exposing the truth about the US “Independence” and the corrupt Vatican LEGAL System – anyone who thinks that the Scottish LEGAL System is any different is letting their cognitive dissonance cloud their thinking as usual.
Scotland’s polling at 50 + 1.
Ipsos Mori 15-20 May 2023. – 51% yes.
Find out now. 13-20 June 2023 – 48% Yes. 45% no.
The polls have Scotland at 50 plus 1. Scotland for Independence.
Only the SNP policy makers stand in the way of Scotland’s right to self determination.
Scotland’s polling at 50 + 1.
You look at the opinion polls. The public feeling on Independence for Scotland. The Scots want it Independence.
The SNP has left the Independence cause stranded on an island with no ferry.
We need the SNP to fire the starting gun. Scotland United. We’ll take the remaining 10 Unionist seats and send them home tae think again!
@Galloway Lass (11.57) –
Noted, with great interest.
Thanks!
🙂
Humza wants to sabotage our dreams. He has no magic, rabbit. He has no ruse he says.
Second class citizens, second class voters, second class scots in the UK. Inferior to the English. Based on nationality. That’s the voice of the SNP.
Geri,
for a Scots Indy Ref under the Scotland Act 1998, the franchise is written down in law.
Why not try looking it up, rather than making easily disproven rants?
@Galloway Lass 11:57
I have just been on the scotcourts.gov.uk site and I can see all cases scheduled for 5 July in Glasgow, Aberdeen and Stirling.
Without further info from you, I can’t tell which is the case you are referring to.
Care to tell us? Thanks in advance.
David Hannah says:
2 July, 2023 at 12:21 am
“The SNP has left the Independence cause stranded on an island with no ferry.
We need the SNP to fire the starting gun. Scotland United. We’ll take the remaining 10 Unionist seats and send them home tae think again!”
######################################################################################################################################
Too true but it isnt going to happen David. the SNP is now in essence a treacherous RABID Yoon Party additionally infected with equally RABID Wokists who aren’t interested in Indy.
Galloway Lass
Chucky isn’t given the Scottish crown to wear because he’s not king of Scots.
He’s telt tae shut it & listen to the ceremony. He can have a wee look at what will never be on his nogging but that’s all they get. Jeans & T-Shirt will suffice. We don’t have that poofy pomp & ceremony shite up here either..much to the house jocks dismay for reasons unbeknown to the sane amongst us.
He’s the King of England on a wee jolly to Edinburgh. He shouldn’t be here. It’ll be interesting to see what the house jocks do to embarrass themselves with.
FFS ASA
The Scottish parliament has the franchise.
I’ve just provided a long list of the changes the Scottish government has made to elections in Scotland. What bit are you struggling with?
& Update, in 2020, it was passed through the Scottish government that prisoners do get to vote in accordance with human rights laws.
So that’s the term, the age group, refugees, prisoners & EU citizens ALL changed & became law in SCOTLAND.
@RoS 11:22
Asking on behalf of a Scot who doesn’t read too well.
50%+1 of what?
Of votes cast?
Of the Scottish population?
Of the Scottish eligible to vote population?
Of seats?
If every election will be treated as an election to dissolve the union, won’t that make every election one of your “constitutional votes”? Thus, by making every election a constitutional vote, won’t your scheme require that henceforth, those Scots allowed to vote in every election will be subject to your proposed residency criteria?
My acquaintance, who doesn’t read too well, wonders how that could ever be made to work.
I wonder if you have thought this through.
Geri,
the current law is:
“ The Referendums (Scotland) Act 2020 provides that the franchise for any future referendum held by the Scottish government (on any subject) will be the same as the franchise for Scottish parliament elections.
Following changes introduced in the Scottish Elections (Franchise and Representation) Act 2020, this means that anyone aged 16 or over, who is legally resident in Scotland regardless of nationality, and who is on the Scottish local government electoral register, would be entitled to vote.”. (text from the Institute for Government).
You’ll note those are Westminster laws, not capable of modification by Holyrood.
So none of the Indy lemmings or nationalist loons can suddenly start demanding minimum residency periods, or excluding English pensioners living in Perth.
That’s the franchise, under the law.
If they’re resident & registered to vote they’ll get a vote.
50%+1 is result of population – not seats.
We only need over 50% once & it’s all over.
They aren’t WM laws.
The franchise has been discussed, voted on & changed numerous times, including who could vote in the 2014 & future referendums, in Holyrood.
Dumbza could change it again tomorrow if he likes!
If they were UK laws then it begs the question why they haven’t implemented them South of the border eh?
Are you sure yer a Scot? You don’t seem aware of our elections..
Brilliant, absolutely Brilliant, right on the nose – I actually broke out laughing out loud when I saw this 🙂 🙂
Has anyone seen that Kids in the Hall character who crushes people’s ‘tiny little heads’ ‘I crush you, I crush you’.
There’s a few people BTL that are heading in that direction.
Reading books and discussing them with others is still the best way to understand modern life rather than watching endless YouTube videos made by cranks in drafty, badly lit rooms who can’t even be bothered to invest in a decent mic.
The rich will always try to pervert democracy. It’s the job of investigative journalists to find out their names. If you can’t do the latter and won’t read books but prefer to invoke the Vatican, freemasonry, the illuminati and so on as being ‘behind’ world-historical events then you’re going to lose the plot eventually.
Still it is quite fun to crush those ‘tiny little heads’, just don’t do it all day is good advice. If you can restrict the crushing of the tiny little heads to maybe 15 minutes a day, then I would say that’s a good work-life-crushing tiny little heads balance but I’m not a doctor and I can’t be held legally responsible for this advice. As always exercise individual judgment on the crushing of the tiny little heads.
So if every election is a de facto referendum to leave the UK, would every subsequent election following such a vote be a de facto referendum to rejoin? Similarly would elections be de facto referendum to join or lave the EU?
@Pat Blake
The problem with rejoining anything you have left is that you won’t get the same T’s & C’s you enjoyed the last time around.
When discussing rejoining the EU, whether as part of the UK, or as a pretendy iScotland, that’s a key factor that eludes the cognitive processes of many regular posters on here.
The Europhiles, who thought everything to do with the UK’s EU membership was wonderful, won’t accept that membership was a unique set of circumstances that can’t or won’t be repeated. Ever.
Thus, if we take the SNP at face value, with their repeated commitment to their reality that a vote for “Indy” is a de facto vote for Brussels rule, we see immediately that far from Edinburgh running a currency with related fiscal policies tailored to Scotland’s post-colonial condition, we will have foreign technocrats enforcing policies that empower the Euro, which of course we will have to adopt. And if these policies are bad for Scotland, tough, just learn to take it like Greeks.
And furthermore, far from an iScotland government disbursing profits and assets to Scottish enterprises and Sovereign Scots, we will be sending that money to Brussels for distribution to the poorer and perhaps war-torn regions of the EU. Cos therm’s the rules – rich countries (iScotland) pay in – poor countries draw out.
Angus Robertson greetin’ about erosion of Devolution due to the Internal Market Act, while SNP refuses to put country before party, at the next general election, is the most pathological act of self harm to the Scottish National Party!
How does he expect to get away with such brainstorming bullshit?
Scotland United provides the solution to end the Union, immediately!
I agree with the premise that genuine endeavour for independence, would most certainly deliver.
To date, the international community has observed the Scottish National Party, ‘toy’ with the electorate (to put it mildly). Some might conclude… the Scottish electorate continues to be sorely shafted by the Scottish National Party!
The constant whining from SNP in the House of Commons, viewed as hypocritical bullshite, from every quarter, here and abroad!
Only a ‘Scotland United’, shared policy could deliver 50%+ vote.
The above shared policy has nothing to do with the number of other Indy parties, SNP embracing ‘Scotland United’, the single most important demonstration of priority to the Scottish public.
The public’s lack of faith is written large in party policy and validated by the inaction of the Scottish National Party.
As things stand, the party will face huge losses. The most disgusting fact being, the party already knows this to be certain.
SNP has absolutely no intention of putting Scotland before the party, the final nail in their coffin!
Galloway Lass @ 11:57 pm
“about Cases being held on 5 July! I believe that someone is going to bring a case up about the Anglo-German King of England having no right to be King of Scotland (or more correctly, King of Scots) as he is not prepared to sign the historical documents which would give sovereignty to the people.”
Aye, hits aboot time a Scottis coort leukt at the quaisten o oor Scottis fowks soveranety; daes hit endure or daes hit nae endure?
In other words, does Scotland exist or does it not exist, was our nation annexed and dissolved as our oppressor maintains. On whose side will a Scottish court swing?
A Scot Abroad said;
“the issue with what you say (and it does apply in other countries, as you say) is that we are all citizens of the UK, not of Scotland or of England, Wales, or NI. There’s no legally recognised distinctions. While historically we are two nations, a Principality, and a Province, in practice we are all a single nation called the UK.
So while a (for example) Dutch resident of Edinburgh might reasonably be denied a vote in an Indy Ref, the law wouldn’t allow for a Londoner resident in Edinburgh to be denied the vote. We are all citizens of the UK, and Edinburgh is in the UK, and the citizen is perfectly entitled to cast their vote on a UK matter inside the UK.”
Typical lies and dodgy interpretations from you as usual.
We are all citizens of the UK, but we are not all sovereign owners of Scotland the nation and Kingdom. That Kingdom never went away, was never abolished, was never merged into England’s kingdom. It is still fully distinct with its own monarchical system but without an actual legally-crowned monarch, which is no great loss as the Crown in Scotland actually represents the Community of the Realm of Scotland, meaning its people, and that means they are not subjects of the monarch as England’s citizens are. It still has its own constitution, its own legal system, its own judicial system, its own education system, and it retains its own national sovereignty which is embodied in its people, and not in its monarch or its parliament. On top of all that there is a well-defined border marking the transition from the Kingdom of Scotland to the Kingdom of England.
That there are no legal distinctions between all the citizens of the UK is the great treacherous lie of the Union, because legally and constitutionally there are two types of citizens, the sovereign Scots who own their country of Scotland, and all the rest who do not. For a constitutionally important matter like Scotland’s independence, that distinction matters, and must be recognised and fully respected, including and especially by England.
Scotland’s independence is not a UK matter, nor an English matter, it is a Scottish matter. Yes, it will have consequences for the UK and England if the Scots choose it, but England will just have to make do as best it can without its current illegal ability to help itself to Scotland’s resources and wealth. Oh dear, how sad, never mind. Karma is long overdue!
The single nationhood of the UK is irrelevant in an independence referendum of either of the two Kingdoms that founded the Union, and if the legal system imposed on the UK by Westminster’s English establishment denies that distinction between the two kingdoms’ electorates, letting the Londoner resident in Edinburgh to vote in Scotland’s referendum, then that legal system is an abusive intrusion on Scotland’s national sovereignty, and fatally breaches a critical obligation of the Treaty, thus ending the Union anyway.
Scotland’s independence is for Scotland’s people alone to decide, and not for Scotland’s guests.
Galloway Lass @ 11:57 pm
“about Cases being held on 5 July! I believe that someone is going to bring a case up about the Anglo-German King of England having no right to be King of Scotland (or more correctly, King of Scots) as he is not prepared to sign the historical documents which would give sovereignty to the people.”
Aye, hits aboot time a Scottis coort leukt at the quaisten o oor Scottis fowks soveranety; daes hit endure or daes hit nae endure?
In other words, does Scotland exist or does it not exist, as ACH and his ilk maintains; was our nation annexed and dissolved as our oppressor believes, an oor soveranety asurped, which would mean that the blessed ‘union’ is no more than a massive 300+ year hoax – hit disnae exist either. Are unionists really colonialists? For wha’s cheek wad a ‘Scottis’ coort sweeng – oors or thairs?
“I believe that someone is going to bring a case up about the Anglo-German King of England having no right to be King of Scotland (or more correctly, King of Scots) as he is not prepared to sign the historical documents which would give sovereignty to the people.”
More accurately, those historical documents don’t ‘give’ sovereignty to the people, they affirm the existing sovereignty of the people.
You wonder why Charles the third is coming to Scotland to formally accept the Honours of Scotland when his Westminster coronation apparently made him King of the whole UK?
Answers on a postcard!!
Pat Blake says:
2 July, 2023 at 8:07 am
So if every election is a de facto referendum to leave the UK, would every subsequent election following such a vote be a de facto referendum to rejoin?
No.
The Treaty of Union is a bipartite treaty. A party can elect to leave, as is it’s sovereign right, and the Treaty ceases to exist. But to enter a bipartite Treaty requires the willing consent of both parties.
The defunct Treaty can never thereafter be resurrected, but can only be replaced with a new Treaty, which I repeat, would require the consent of both parties.
At best, ( “best” from a Unionist perspective), Scotland could use every Scottish Election as a vote to express a willingness to join England in a Treaty of Union, and of course, without knowing the terms of the treaty.
Don’t worry however. Any such Treaty entered into, by people displaying such mental incompetence, would be unenforceable and void in law.
However, just because the 1707 Treaty of Union is a basket case scenario, and it’s demise is without doubt the very best thing that could happen to Scotland, even the bitterest of enemies (and by that I do not mean Scotland and England), require treaties and protocols just to get along. “Something” would replace it.
The Treaty of Union would be dead and buried, but taking Brexit as a credible precedent, there would likely be a period of separation negotiations, and a new entente of some description, no doubt with a Trade Agreement attached.
While the iron grows colder with every month the dysfunctional SNP remain nominally in charge of the Independence campaign, it is my opinion Scotland could and would have become a buffer state between Europe and brexited England, (status not unlike the NI Protocol), and provided Brexit with a cushioned landing.
How profoundly tragic for Scotland that our greatest opportunity in 300 years fell at the feet of Sturgeon, the Feckless Incompetent, and her merry band of gravy slurping douchebags.
Is Schrodinger’s cat dead or alive and is the Holyrood parliament dead or alive?
The only possible way for Scotland to achieve independence is for the Scottish public to place its trust entirely in the Scottish parliament.
I can see no prospect of that happening in the short term.
If Labour are returned at the next Holyrood election it will not result in an improvement, it will only continue and entrench the misfeasance we have seen in the recent past.
Personally, I see plenty of opportunities for Alba but some of their policies make them unelectable for the majority. Getting rid of nuclear weapons on day-one being the most obvious.
Thanks John Main. My concern is about being seen to be fickle. I quite like the Swiss idea of regular votes on things that affect the public but when the vote affects more than your own country then changing directions regularly hurts those relationships. In or out, fine but do it with your eyes open and be prepared to live with the choices for a decent amount of time. Positive and negative consequences need to be fully discussed by both sides of the debate. In the Brexit vote, remain supporters damaged their cause by wildly exaggerating the problems and Brexiteers dismissed the problems out of hand. Both were wrong. A lack of a strong coherent plan mars both Brexit and any future Scottish departure. Brexit is both a cautionary tale and a cause for hope for those who want to go it alone.
What worries me most is the idea that politicians are somehow in a secret plot to thwart the public will. Usually blamed on a very clever, evil organisation – whether it be Westminster or WEF or… the truth is that politicians are a type of person. They are molded by politics, the media and by laws. Hoping for a miracle government that won’t be as annoying and useless as the ones we’ve got is wishful thinking. The hope for Brexit was that Parliament could take radical steps to solve problems the EU wouldn’t let us solve. That hope isn’t going so well. In large part because we still have politicians who don’t agree with what ‘we’ want. I’m not even sure how many ‘we’ constitutes on any particular issue. I suspect that Scotland has the same problem.
“Unfortunately for you, it’s pish. The existing laws don’t allow for it. And you in Scotland can’t change it, because the existing laws are reserved.”
The laws of the nation (UK)- a people or nation that is/are proposing to secede from have no bearing in the process on the people or nation wishing to leave.
In other words English/UK laws have no power with regards to Scotland dissolving the union.
In any case Scotland is a nation with its long established borders, it is the elder of the two nations in this union, a union via a international treaty, a treaty that can be dissolved as clearly shown in the Edinburgh Agreement, only with the aid of House Jocks and MSM disinformation is Scotland being held within this undemocratic union.
SNP accounts.
I wonder how many ‘donations’ under £250 have been made but not recorded, and what they add up to in total.
If someone handed over £10,000.00 in a white envelope but wanted to remain anonymous would listing the money as 40 separate donations solve the problem?
When we be able to see the accounts?
Main.
Your right you don’t read too well.
In my opinion it should be 50+1 of votes cast, the electorate, those that meet the residency criteria, will know well in advance what they are voting for so there will be no oh I didn’t know blah, blah, blah and so forth.
From 1992 until 2019’s GE the turn out never got about 77% so if you don’t show up to vote, (if you meet the residency criteria) you can whinge that yes won and dissolved the union.
Ash Regan’s VEM, though the Rev also highlighted this path a while back as well.
https://dochub.com/thesnp/JWop0ZAKkdDY075VrYa9GP/2023-06-23-ash-regan-snp-voter-empowerment-mechanism-pdf?pg=3
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8749/
@Pat Blake 10:29
Valid points, very well made, IMHO.
A strong, coherent, plan, a charismatic, articulate, leader, an open and honest dialogue about the pros and cons of Indy.
No exhortations to just have faith, or remember Culloden.
Three foundation blocks for Indy; plan, leader, honesty.
Looking forwards to when we start. We have nearly ten years practise in doing it all wrong to learn from.
I am acutely conscious that people are lining up to adopt this 50% + mantra as the default benchmark / threshold for Independence.
I just wish however that I was seeing a corresponding level of savvy awareness that while a 50% + share of the vote as the threshold for victory sound’s definitive, and indeed it is, it is actually impossible to win a binary referendum without commanding 50% + of the vote.
Victory in a General Election, whether that’s a UK or Scottish Election, is NOT considered won or lost on the % share of the vote.
It is my considered belief the SNP is steering the argument towards a 50%+ share of the vote, because otherwise, questions must be asked why the SNP were so profoundly useless in making any progress whatsoever after winning 56 out of 59 seats in 2015.
Not only did the SNP squander Scotland’s Constitutional route to Independence in 2016, they also squandered Scotland’s Democratic route to Independence in 2015, and again in 2017.
A 50% +1 share of the vote IS the threshold for victory, but only in a binary referendum.
Only the number of seats won will provide Scotland with leverage under Westminster’s First Past the Post system, and share of the vote is not normally a critical criterion.
Why am I concerned? Because “Victory”, in a UK Gerneral Election means Scotland returning 30 pro-Independence seats. No argument, it simply does. That winning result can of course be augmented and underscored with a 50%+ share of the vote, but for the love of fk Scotland, DO NOT CONCEDE DEFEAT when Scotland wins 30+ of the seats we need, but falls short in securing 50% of the vote. Are we really that stupid?
Can we PLEASE NOT self-sabotage the next Independence Campaign before it even starts?
Same goes for the franchise. If Independence is a constitutional issue for the nation of Scotland, then by definition, only Scottish “nationals” get a vote. That’s what nationality means. That distinction is the very essence of what sovereign independence is all about. It’s not just “being” Scottish, it is an equally rigorous determination of who is NOT Scottish.
If that makes you queazy, then it’s back in the oven for 10 minutes because you’re not quite done as a Scottish Independentist yet.
Do NOT re-invent the wheel when it comes to the interpretation of International sovereignty just because our nation has been compromised these past 300 years and our perspectives indoctrinated by invasive, non-national “Britishness”.
I am not a blood and soil Nationalist, but we cannot afford to be meek about this or Scotland’s enemies will use the ambiguities to destroy us and our campaign, and keep Scotland subjugated in perpetuity.
We fight to win.
That is all.
A manifesto for immediate independence via a general election is plainly a binary choice for the voter.
If you’re against independence, either vote for a unionist party or stay at home on election day!
A (de facto) referendum, with 50%+ votes, provides the mandate!
John Main 9:27
Do you read a different site than the rest of us on here?
I’ve never seen anyone on here claim that a restored Independent Scotland would slip back into the EU with the same T & C’s England negotiated. Why would it? It’d be a brand new agreement thrashed out between Scotland & the EU – or flat out rejected at the EU membership referendum stage by Joe public because one thing we do know is that a ref is an absolute requirement. The citizens must be on board or the application is terminated.
That also applies to yer € pish because, again, its a voluntary process once all conditions are met & yet again, the population is on board because that is a completely different *union*
Greece failed at the euro because they cooked the books to gain entry to the euro when their country wasn’t ready.
England wouldn’t get the same deal’s they had before either. They’re no longer one of the founders & with that will have lost any leverage they had & they’ll just be a regular John – they’d never agree to that because they think they’re special.
I’ve seen you constantly spout rubbish about the EU. Its you that suffers cognitive problem. Yer obsession that an iScot will rejoin the EU behind yer back without asking you LOL!
Breeks
I’ve seen on here that you should have two Scotland-born parents to be included in a restricted franchise on independence. I think Salvo say that you only need to be born here yourself. Others say a residency period should be all that’s required. Where are you in this?
Wherever that line is drawn will have downstream effects on who benefits from policies after independence.
I already know I don’t want to vote for Alba again due to their throwing all green policies under a bus and embracing the Tory attitude to oil – and presumably the tory society which that enables, SNP over TWAW, complacency and now following Alba’s lead on dumping their very mild green policies rather than facing down the hysterical opposition, and Scottish Greens over TWAW and a communist take on equality eclipsing an ecological take on managing the country.
And I already know I’m going to have to pick the party with the most believable commitment to cutting oil use. I think that makes me a Green – Labour swing voter at the moment, by a held nose.
@ Geri at 12:46 pm
John has previously been called out with his propensity to misrepresent the views of folk on here re. EU membership.
Previous conversation trail starts with this post and if you scroll down the posts we did appear to ultimately agree to reach a compromise position.
T’was at a time when Ellis was about though, and he was probably still raging with me coz I pointed out his daughter uses pronouns! 😉
https://wingsoverscotland.com/distant-colours/comment-page-1/#comment-2710861
But the single market compromise position does make sense and has been supported in the past by btl “players” as can been seen by Frank Waring’s post with reply.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/nicola-sturgeon-in-her-own-words/#comment-2705155
lf Baird says:
1 July, 2023 at 7:14 pm
Colonial and cultural assimilation means that even some (bourgeois) Scots clearly prefer to be culturally English/British. Colonialism is always ‘a co-operative venture’ (Memmi; Fanon) and Scotland is nae different.
Alf, this is a genuine question.
If we were to strip away the ‘colonial’ aspects of modern Scotland, what exactly would be left as authentically Scottish?
Not being provocative – just keen to know your thoughts.
Dan & Geri
I can’t encourage your fantasy that iScotland’s future will be determined by the views of the BTL posters on here.
The current SNP position is that iScotland will de facto be in the EU and that a vote for Indy is thus de facto a vote for EU membership.
Soz, an a that, but you are not nearly as powerful and influential, or special, as you believe.
The SNP don’t get a say do they? The public shall decide in a referendum.
Thier position may be to rejoin the EU but that bears no relation to reality. It’s not theirs to decide.
The SNP is also not the Yes movement. They deliberately won’t uncouple that EU pish from Independence because it’s another carrot.
You must agree by now that BTL is done with carrots so I don’t know why you keep on & on about the EU.
EFTA is where the rest of us are heading & have been for over a yr at least..
We, active supporters of independence for Scotland, are hamstrung by the hiatus, politically, in independence campaigning.
I have moved from pro-EU to pro-EFTA. To me, it makes more sense. The advantages of free movement, etc, without the need to join the Euro.
In any future Scottish election, there should be, at least, a minimum of a 5 year residency qualification. It’s our future – not incomers from elsewhere!
A Scottish central bank is needed. Use the cash lodged by the Scottish note-issuing banks with the bank of england to cover their Scottish notes, as a deposit for the Scottish National Bank.
It seems easy to me. Why do ‘the high heid yins’ find this unworkable?
Cheers Dan
Agreed Brian.
EFTA looks more appealing. EU membership is so long away from becoming a reality that John should really stop banging on about it & so should the SNP. They can’t possibly predict the outcome of an EU ref. Thier time would be better spent doing what they were elected to do which is to get us out of this Union & forget nonsense talk of signing us up to another one.
Dumbza has been told to piss off by the EU anyway. They’re also wilfully ignorant that Scotland is a sovereign nation & needs feck all permission from a *UK* chaperone.
We’re the other part of the Kingdom.
@Geri 11:20
Good one!
So when the next post greetin about Scotland being “dragged out of the EU against our will” appears, you’ll be the first to tell the poster to wind his/her neck in.
Great news, can’t wait.
No because we were dragged out.
62% voted to remain. Every constituency.
IF we’d have wanted to leave we’d have done it ourselves.
The UK had no right to take us out. Both Kingdoms is in a Union – not just one playing spokesperson. We could have had a deal they gifted to NI.
…and now you don’t.
Humza Schrödinger’s pretendy de-facto referendum.
That’s more a
jackjock-in-the-box than a ballot box.Good to see the wisdom of Alex portrayed here too.
What will next weeks toon be about… White or Black?