Not out
Posted on
December 12, 2018 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
This is the 5,000th post since Wings Over Scotland began in November 2011, which is just shy of two a day, every single day, since then. We wanted such a landmark post to be something serious and significant, but in light of the utter brain-melting futility of trying to write anything sensible about politics in the UK today that won’t be overtaken by ridiculous events within seven minutes, screw it, we’re going to this instead.
So we’ll see you all later this evening for the result of Theresa May’s confidence vote. What’s the worst that could happen?
No, really, we’re asking.
Happy 5000th post!
Hope it doesn’t take 5000 more until we are independent!
Krystalnacht.
With the way the day is unfolding, it’s anyone’s guess but I am personally rooting for Ross the boss for PM!
Been reading wings twitter as usual and have not laughed so much from the comments this morning.
Politics is not meant to be funny, is it?
I thought it might have been a spectacular emergency kitten special (or soup of the day).
Lol, for four minutes I forgot how crap the UK is.
DO. NOT. GO. OUT. TODAY!
#ZOMBIEPOCALYPSE
Kirsteen for PM?
Also? Awesome 5K milestone. 🙂
5k – who’d imagine?
5k more? Or will Scotland have its independence before that.
One can only hope.
Best place to get a handle on what’s happening in Scottish / UK politics and 5000 posts is a huge contribution to peoples knowledge of things that directly effect their lives.
Well done. 🙂 🙂
PS: Oh!
Corbyn getting angry at PM’s Qs maybe gathering his loins for a VONC…..Naw!
Steppeth Up, Ruth the Tank Commander!
.
Plenty of time to arrange an emergency by-election, vote her into the UK top job, and finish a game of bowls in Gibraltar before repulsing the EU on 21st January.
Worst thing that could happen? In 5 words: “Boris Johnston becomes Prime Minister”.
What a ignorant woman May is,not a Lab fan but not one straight answer from May,what a bloody shambles wake up Scotland get out of this Union.
May greetin face
It will all end in tears.
What a rabble.
What a good question! On balance, I think the worst that _could_ happen is that Mrs May wins this evening, and then manages to get her deal through Parliament by delay until the last possible moment.
Congratulations Stu. 5,000 brilliant posts supporting Scottish independence is a unique contribution. In the face of all the false accusations, the attempts to close you down, to prevent people from reading these articles, you have prevailed.
Hope it doesn’t take another 5,000 before we can celebrate our freedom.
That’s a bit strange.
But compared to Westminster, perfectly normal.
We are taking a short intermission while popcorn is served, please do not adjust your set. We’d give you a test card but a lot of people don’t like playing cricket, many of them MPs for the Tories and Labour and, errr, that other party that isn’t the SNP who are led by ooops, I forget right now.
Theresa May just said @”PMQs
No matter how small the margin of a referendum result that is the result that must be respected
We should hold on to that quote for the future
Congrats Stu for keeping us well informed and sane.
More power to yer elbow
Congratulations Stu on the 5000th post.
Been with Wings since early 2012 and still supporting you and this site.
Great contributions to the Indy cause.
Keep them coming. Not long to go now surely.
Happy 5000th post day..
As for the worst that could happen…. I always like to refer to Ghostbusters in these, or similar circumstances.
Peter Venkman: …or you could accept the fact that this city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor Lenny: What do you mean, “biblical”?
Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor. Real Wrath-of-God type stuff!
Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Egon Spengler: 40 years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes!
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!
Or, more likely, feck all…
Cos she’ll probabaly win the vote and square 1 will be reached, again…
May is likely to survive this internal Tory squabble. Even if she didn’t Scotland would still be in the same powerless situation. Angus MacNeil nails it.
link to thenational.scot
5k and a brilliant job you’re doing Stuff.
Worst thing? Fuck knows but do I recall someone saying this would be a boring year for pollyticking?
Currently, May the Dreadnaught with all the charisma of a rowboat up the proverbial creek with no paddle.
Like a poor captain, taking the ship down with her.
FFS, just bloody well go!
I hope we get there Stu.
When we do, you’ll have played a significant part with these 5000 articles.
At best, they convert and convince. At their least they galvanise us footsoldiers, giving us the knowledge to convert and convince.
I was so happy and relieved when you decided to carry on after the indyref result.
Thank you.
Well done Stuart.You keep me sane,almost.
Worst thing would be gov of Nat unity, extension/rescinding of A50 after some ‘people’s vote’ and Scotland remains an English colony indefinitely.
I’m goni say:
May gone by the weekend.
JRM as PM by end of year.
Negotiation over.
No deal.
No backstop.
Chaos all round.
Ireland United in 2 years with a bit bloodshed either side. Scotland independent in a similar time frame.
Worst case scenario like. Cani see the being a general election or even a second euref. It’s either no deal or no brexit now I reckon.
Dr Jim @12.30 pm
Pity that didn’t apply in 1979. No constitution no rules – Britnats just make it up as they go along to suit themselves at that point in time.
I do agree however that the comment will make it harder but not impossible for Britnats to do something different in the future if that suits them.
Dissolve the Treaty of Union now – it has never been fit for purpose for Scotland.
Rev Stu: “Nothing’s happening today.”
The UK Government: “Hold my mace.”
Corbyn: “Is it Wednesday or Rotherham?”
Scotland: “Meh. Yer awrite. See ye, pal.”
The end.
5000 posts, just equates to getting an incredible amount of facts out there to a huge readership and then spread beyond those who come here.
Do you have a tally of how many POSTS that equates to over those 5000 posts ?
If not, am not volunteering to count them…jhst saying. Haha
Congratulations on your 5k post. The only source of sanity in all the madness.
Feeling cynical anyone ?
Of course, the cynic says, its all a tory ploy to strengthen her hand in the party.
Have a leadership contest, and win it, seemingly beating her brexit rebels.
Wait as long as possible to hold cancelled vote, so it becomes Her deal or No deal.
We already know it will be rejected, so she stays in charge, and the fannies get their hardest of brexit and the tories blame everyone who voted down her deal for the shambles to follow.
She then calls an election and with everyone blaming opposition for no deal…boom…tories win a majority.
Of course, thats just a cynics view…..
More to come, which may rather affect the ‘cynical view’ in my last post…
More fun to come, 3 other things…
1. A VONC in the Government.
2. The Continuity Bill verdict causing a constitutional crisis however if goes.
3. Scotsgov calling a referendum and demanding a S.30 or else.
The only thing the media can agree on is that SNP are definitely BAD!!!
Hammond says the vote tonight will flush out the extremists. As far as I am concerned all the Tory party MPs are right wing extremists. USA is moving to the right and dragging England along with it. Westminster is just going to get more and more right wing and English voters will vote for it.
Well done on the 5000th and well done on remaining one of the key places to get proper news and analysis.
What’s the worst that could happen? It’s hard to consider anything that Westminster does as the least worst thing. It’s all completely stupid and harmful.
Maybe the worst thing is that we don’t seize the chance at the right time to break free.
Your 1st post is as significant as your 5000 & every other post in between. Thank U Stu for giving US Wingers the privilege in being part of this WoS site & long may that continue .
Well done, Rev. Can we give Treeza-doll some pancakes? Oh – mibbees naw.
Just think though – if she hadn’t bottled it and pulled the Meaningful Vote (which she would have lost by a huge margin), then she would undoubtedly be toast today. Pulling the MV will probably save her skin today although I think she will be badly wounded.
Still going for my view though that, in a secret ballot, she’ll only get 40% support (just ’cause I’m contrary).
Congrats Rev on the 5000 milestone. It’s been a helluva journey so far!!
As to tonight – May to win, and then back to pushing ‘her’ deal through Parliament that will then get shot down in flames …which then leaves us in a world of desolation.
Because …what else is there?! She goes back to the EU (again) and asks for changes (which she won’t get). As more Tory MP’s howl for her to resign (she won’t), Corbyn will continue to strut his stuff at PMQ’s on a Wednesday, talking of ‘no confidence motions and the need for a GE’ (which he will never implement) …and so …we just continue to slide to absolute oblivion.
And as the rudderless HMS Britannica sails towards the iceberg on the 29th March, hardcore Unionist Scots begin to feel the creeping fear of dread, as they watch the vast majority of their disillusioned Scottish countrymen, realise that the UK is bankrupt and broken country with little or no future and begin to talk of (shhhh…) ‘independence’.
Aye …what are the Scottish Unionists to do, one wonders. LOL
Well done Boss for bringing a bit of sanity in a mad world. Worst thing? would be if all of us are still moaning on the site in another 8 years.(No chance surely)
@geeo
You ‘May’ not be far away from the mark there!
“Anything can happen in the next half hour” 🙂
I noticed that Ruth peeked out from behind her baby box long enough to make a comment supporting May. But she scuttled back into hiding again in case somebody asked her a hard question. Ruth doesn’t do hard questions.
Will proudly hoist my W.O.S flag up my flagpole tonight as appreciation to all your hard work… Cheers Rev 🙂
Theresa May will win. Thus emboldened she will struggle on for a year – in the meantime, we will leave Europe.
Ireland will unite and the DUP will move to Scotland bringing their knuckle draggers with them. A new Unionists in Scotland Party will emerge and get the message over that Brexit is not that bad all funded by dark money. The SNP will limp along waiting for the time to act, losing support. Scotland becomes a playground for the wealthy tax evaders who love the new UK and all our young people move elsewhere and so it goes on…
Congratulations on your 5K posts!
Sorry about that post – you did ask!
Congratulations. Also, sorry you’ve not been able to take your well-earned retirement. We have need of you yet.
Enjoy your afternoon off. Someone’s sure to have resigned by the time you’re home. Fingers crossed.
Congratulations Stu. 🙂
Alan White
?
Verified account
@aljwhite
48m48 minutes ago
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I don’t say this lightly, but this is the worst British political crisis since Wednesday.
Congratulations, well done and thank you so much Rev..
Your an absolute Star..
As to the worst thing…
All the Supreme Court Judges meet with mysterious “Accidents “ and no one can find the record of their judgement!!
Congratulations Stu. A voice of sanity in a mad world. (Never thought I would say that).
Congrats.
Keep up the good work.
Here’s to a happier healthier independent future.
You will be emigrating post indy right?
will they publish the result tonight? even if treeza wins, corbyn will know if there are enough dissenters to carry a VONC in the commons
Congrats Stu – keep up the good work!
Worst thing to happen is Nicola calls IndyRef2 and May immediately revokes article 50 and we lose IndyRef2 as there is no material change…
Losing IndyRef was terrible feeling the next day, losing IndyRef2 would be the worst that could happen by far.
@ schrodingers cat 1.43
Are you confident in Corbyn’s ability to count?
I was happy when Corbyn defeated the Blairites twice in a leadership contest but he has shown no talent, principle or gumption as leader. Very disappointing. The SNP is now the ILP of Keir Hardie’s time, replacing Labour.
Whereas the Rev has performed magnificently against huge difficulties [Met Police taking his computers for 3 months, the Kezia Dugdale case etc etc] not only with his 5000 posts but with the incredible feat of producing, with his team, the Wee Blue Book, that almost won us the 2014 referendum. I expect everything is in train for the next one. Boundless gratitude, thank you, Rev.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Not out This is the 5,000th post since Wings Over Scotland began in November 2011, which is […]
This business of the Tories fighting amongst themselves is a distraction from the real business of Empire.
I want to know when the ships set sail on the new buccaneering adventures to secure the new world trading empire like we woz promised. Empire 2!
When does that happen? How do I sign up as one of the crew? Do I get to wear a costume like Charlie Drake the great Elizabethan pirate? All the while shouting the battle cry of the empire – “hallo my darlings!”
Am I allowed to run through the fuzzy wuzzies with my trusty cutlass? Can’t wait for that one, we’ll show them who the bosses are.
Will Richard Leonard and Wullie what’s-his-name flock to the Jack with their legions of willing followers.
When do we get to attack in the other direction like we did at Dunkirk and put the wind up the Jerries?
I want to hear spitfires again. In fact we should have canned spitfire sounds played on a loop over loud speakers on every street. Just like in WW2.
Those sun drenched uplands beckon. A new dawn, a new empire, it’s ours for the taking. No one will dare stand in our way. Huzzah!
Well done for a remarkable blog that has been essential reading for many, not just in Scotland. Thank you. I suspect you’ve converted many die-hard unionists into voting for independence next time round, simply to keep you and WGD quiet in future! One hopes both will continue..
Congratulations, celebrations very soon and thank you for all your great work.
Congratulations and thank you for opening my eyes to quite a lot of things I would otherwise have been unaware of.
Well done Stu. You are an important figure in our fight for freedom from Westminster.
I think it was early 2012 I started posting on here, and was a regular Winger.
I lost my mojo over the last couple of years and hardly post any more.
Hopefully another campaign is around the corner and I can become enthused again.
If May as expected wins tonight, Corbyn should go for a VoNC asap.
Think about it, with May securely in place for another year, the mad tory brexiteers may just be angry enough to do something really stupid. Definitely worth a try. 🙂
I think you are being a bit harsh Rev
don’t you know the Tories are ‘batting for britain’
Lets not forget what the Tories are saying.
“A win is a win even if it is only by 1 vote.”
Forgot to say. Congratulations Stu long may you continue.
Congrats Stu on getting to 5k, just a pity there was so much media cr*p to expose along the way.
I won’t wish you a toast to the next 5k because I dearly hope we can all escape from this UK madhouse long before then, and finally get on with our lives, building a new country fit for heroes like you.
5000 posts on Wings, congrats, Stu, a milestone on the road to Independence. Well done!
It may have been Robin Day who described John Knott as ‘ A here today, gone tomorrow politician’, but if ever an individual was made to fit that phrase, it is surely Theresa May.
Nick ‘Mr Conservative’ Robinson tried once to pin that phrase on Alex Salmond, but failed miserably.
In the Surkov world of political theatre frequented by the Tories, today will end with yet another mind numbing decision, leaving us all wondering for the umpteenth time, what was that all about’
-but none the wiser.
Congratulations Stu – long may you continue
OT..Sorry, trying to give a young Yesser ammunition for his No voting friends!!
What exactly was it that Neil Oliver called us?
and what was the name of the battle before Culloden when The Scots found a secret track over marshland to attack?
I know I know this stuff… but brain fog is active at the moment…. LOL
I don’t need anybody to trouble themselves with links, just a reminder will do..
FYI… his debate is about the Central Belt knowledge of Irish History in comparison to our own, and why this is?
Thanks in advance.
The Tories are trying their best to force another GE. They want Labour to win that GE so they take the blame for the mess.
The Westminster Party is a clever Party, and they wear Blue and Red badges to confuse the masses, and keep the illusion of choice going.
you can smell the burning gammon going ballistic on the BBC website. Apologies for the mixed metaphors.
5000 up and still at the crease….good man. I sincerely hope it wont be 5000 more before we get independence. However come the great day, and if you are still in the mood for it, I’d like you to stick around to help keep our new parliament on its toes. It needs guys like you to stop it sinking into the mire aka Westminster.
“Ruth Davidson backs Theresa May ahead of confidence vote” that will turn out well
In extra vivid colour these events display what being British is all about. Scotland is no ‘partner’, just England’s northern extension.
Whatever might ensue in Westminster Scots are plainly being dragged along on England’s coat tail and there seems no end to that demeaning situation in sight. We appear a nation of gobbling Christmas turkeys.
If there’s some crafty escape strategy in the SNP leadership’s mind, it would give joy to many to have it manifest before we end up in the oven.
Liz – I seem to remember being called a cancer though not 100% sure if it was Oliver.
1689 Battle of Killiecrankie?
“…If there’s some crafty escape strategy in the SNP leadership’s mind…”
Still concern trolling. Aye – we see you alright.
@Liz g
It was the Battle of Prestonpans.
link to clan-cameron.org
Big day for WOS – many congratulations.
Can we please have a ‘Best Of The Best’ Bumper WOS Book? It would be a splendid object fit to grace any coffee table, and worth doing if for no other reason than to collect blurbable quotes from frothing Yoons.
What, for example, might Hothersall, Leasky or McTernan have to say? I’m reminded of Banksy’s book, which has only one blurb, on the back:
😉
Congratulations to WoS! For having kept me sane all these years.
I only wish the SNP were as politically astute, knowledgeable and as politically feisty as the contributors here. But I daresay we have to wait as ‘ye canny hit a movin target’.
Congrats on 5k, that movie looks ace, loved that preciew.
Liz G: The battle you are thinking of was Prestonpans. Scottish victory against English troops led by Cope. The Scots were helped by one of their number having local knowledge of a way through marshland etc. You will find the details quite easily on the internet.
What Neil Oliver said I have no idea. I never ever pay the slightest attention to that man …
What will happen next:
She will win the vote tonight – We are going to the wire with the Maybot. It will be her deal or apocalypse now on offer.
The next few years will be dreadful even with her deal.
Ever time we think “It can’t get any worse, it does”
The NO voters in Scotland continue to hesitate and start to trust Corbyn again.
…I give up and move abroad
Please prove me wrong, please!
@ Liz G: not strictly relevant to your quest but for interest, my brother-in-law did his National Service in the Seaforths at Fort George, and at 06.00 they would be woken by a piper playing “Hey Johnny Cope, are ye waukin’ yet”!! The point being that Cope was caught napping, literally, at Prestonpans.
I see that Labour MP Dennis Skinner has given a reason for swearing at Glasgow South MP Stewart McDonald.
According to Dennis, he wanted to put the SNP “in their place” because “he (Stewart) attacks Jeremy Corbyn every time he stands up and I’ve told him before he is part of the opposition and he should concentrate on attacking the real enemy.”
All of which I find strange considering Dennis Skinner’s Labour colleagues in Scotland openly work with “the real enemy” on a daily basis.
Unless of course Dennis is not being accurate in referring to the Tory Party as the enemy, when in fact they are best buddies of both Dennis and the Labour branch office in Scotland.
Well done Stu, many congratulations. I don’t know how you do it, I’d be totally off my head by now with all the crap that you have to wade through.
You keep a lot of us sane and that’s a big thing.
Any thoughts on what you’ll do when we get our independence? Just retire and chill out, or a holiday of a lifetime perhaps. That’ll be after you flit back to Scotland. LOL.
‘I predict that the day will come when at some point or other on some issue or other you will have to make a stand, and I pray God that when that day comes we may not find that through an unwise policy we are left to make that stand alone’
Winston Churchill, 1938
Liz G
Second Battle of falkirk was 17January 1746
Dennis Skinner is an arse,,,he is the typical multi millionaire champagne socialist.
He has been in the Labour Party for decades and pretended to be the voice of the working class.
A prize prick in every sense of the word.
Congrats Stu on reaching a very significant milestone.
Will you be returning home after our IndyRef2 victory???
Maybe as an MP in an Independent Scotland ?
Well done the Rev and Wings in general for everything leading to this 5000th.
As to what’s the worst ? Theresa May surviving tonight just depresses me something rotten.
@Giving Goose.
Skinner plays a vital part in the Westminster charade, even though he might not realise that himself.
‘Look at the broad spectrum of opinion we have’, they can say, pointing to him as a fierce left winger.
The Westminster Party has members of every colour and political belief. You can vote for anyone you like, but the Westminster Party always wins.
Skinner is a sad figure nowadays.
Worst thing?
The Tories get struck by sanity lightning and call off Brexit altogether and we’re stuck in this insane Perpetual Tory-run Union until there is another ‘material change’!
Ok, it’s a very long shot but crazy things are happening. 🙁
Either way, in or out of the EU, Scotland needs to get out of this colonial prison!
Hearty Congrats and Many Thanks to Rev. Stuart, the Wizard of WoS … Also to all those who contribute to the pro-independence movement by posting here with positive and sincere intent … And, of course, to all the readers of WoS, who help to make WoS the resounding and influential success that it undoubtedly is.
Let’s also acknowledge opponents who may feel aggrieved, annoyed, scared, scandalized, perplexed or even simply apoplectic on account of WoS. They too play their own very important and significant role in the matter, giving obvious encouragement, consolation and delight. So a big thank you to all of them.
As the Wizard himself remarks, approvingly quoting one Terry Pratchett (author): “It’s not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren’t doing it.”
For that quote, and many a good piece of advice which all contributors to WoS should continually keep in mind, go to ‘About’, on the top right hand corner of the WoS site, and press ‘more’. A re-read of what Rev. Stu posted there, and taking what he said seriously, would do us all a lot of good. It would also be an excellent way of showing our gratitude to him for all the mighty work he has done for the cause, and for all of us, over the past 5,000 posts. Many thanks to him, and more power to his elbow …
Liz g says:
12 December, 2018 at 2:36 pm
OT..Sorry, trying to give a young Yesser ammunition for his No voting friends!!
What exactly was it that Neil Oliver called us?
If I remember correctly, he called the YES campaign in 2014 a “hatefest”, but then failed to elaborate on any instance of hatred or bitterness occurring.
Happy 5,000th post to Wingsoverscotland.com
I hope the next celebration after Christmas and Ne’erday will be the celebration that Scotland has voted AYE for independence.
So, we can build a propserous, democratic and successful wee country. Instead of the undemocratic shambles called the UK, where Scotland’s voice is given no consideration and some people are forced to rely on foodbanks to survive.
Neil Oliver Pft
Yeah, thousands of us died because we loved the union so much
Murdo Fraser – spokesman for the selfish & the greedy.
Emergency!
Check Wings twitter feed.
Those evil English are so appalled the Rev has reached 5000 posts that they’re tempting him with his own cinema!
I am sure Skinner was one of the12. Labour MPs., who voted and brought down J.,Callachan then blamed the SNP for with I think 6 MPs., for letting in Thatcher aye he’s some left winger
Congratulations. I have learnt a great deal over these past few years.
Hope it’s not long now until Independence
I reckon Stu’s the ideal man to head-up Scotland’s press regulating body.
Conservatives – the party of backstabbers. Et tu, Brute.
Another thank you for your sanity saving!
OT I heard an advert on Classic FM for Morrison’s booze at 15 quid a bottle but not in Scotland. I mentioned this to a friend who told me that it was the Scottish Governments fault – can anyone deny or confirm this ?
Can somebody please explain to Willie Rennie – the principal reason d’etre for the SNP is to secure Scottish Independence.
Therefore, setting aside Independence is a no-no, it is the ultimate really thick red line for the SNP.
Independence is the founding principle of the SNP – does the Liberal-Democrat Party have a founding principle, or indeed, any principle?
handclapping says:
Kirsteen for PM? Lol. In fact close to ROFL 🙂
I think the situation over Brexit is hairy enough without her.
Socrates MacSporran says:
” – does the Liberal-Democrat Party have a founding principle, or indeed, any principle?”
You still need to ask? ……or is that just a rhetorical question which I can safely ignore?
Well the years roll on Stu,I first found you before you updated your blog to this one. 2012/2013, only missed days I have been on holiday since then. I still would not miss it now. Well done for your efforts and all work done.
Too many great posts too remember.
Well done Stu – hope you’re celebrating with a big bag of sweets!!!
@Dorothy Devine
I believe it is because of minimum pricing. I bought a litre of Russian Standard Vodka in Wiltshire last week for £15, but the offer doesn’t apply in Scotland.
I wouldn’t call it Scot Govts ‘fault’ as such, but more, a consequence of the Scot Govt making attempts to improve the health of folk in Scotland.
I have a mate who said he will be stocking up with booze at Berwick due to the cheapness, whereas I’d prefer to put a few quid extra in to the Scottish economy for my alcohol dependency, than the economy of a country who’s political elite are hell bent on causing irreparable damage to the economy of mines… all in the name of empire and nostalgic xenophobia.
What’s the worst that could happen?
The Ruthfhurer for leader of the Conservatives and Unionists and maybe PM,
she`s been afay quite ,keeping out the way,ready to strike when the time is right.
Ihave a funny feeling about how the tories have conducted themselves over the vote tonight. Has all this been a set up to string out time so no alternative can be found?, with most of them who voted against will now vote for her?
All done to time out the chance of a peoples vote?
Dorothy Devine @ 4.33
Can’t speak to what the advertisers are up to there but.
As I understand it, it’s only the cheep “wreck the hoose juice” that will go up in price!
Couldn’t argue the details though but…
1ltr of Baileys is,as is usual, at this time of year on offer for £12 in Asda!
Colin Alexander @4.02pm
You said that with so much passion. Aye right fake independence supporter. Best start looking for a job soon as your services will no longer be required.
Liz g @ 2:36 pm
Re- Neil Oliver and his remarks on Scottish independence. See this in The National from May 2016:
link to thenational.scot
It refers to an article Oliver had just published in The Sunday Times. In it he uses terms such as ‘hate fest’ and ‘cancerous presence’. The National reports that: “Even Labour’s Blair McDougall suggested the article was extreme.”
If you want the original, the Sunday Times article can be found here: link to thetimes.co.uk. I won’t be registering to read it again.
Oliver’s piece stuck in my mind not just for being extremely unpleasant – which it is. It seemed very telling that Oliver was using this kind of language c. 18 months AFTER the referendum, long after the time when the inflamed passions of a campaign could ever be an excuse for it – which of course they shouldn’t. Can one can detect something ‘quite dark’ in his views?
Scot Findlayson @0457pm “ the ruthfhurer” , “she’s been afay quiet keeping out of the way”.
I fully expect her on the stroke of the poll closing at 2000 to announce the result. Has she possibly got some inside information on the “ postal vote” for those unable to make it upstairs to committee room (20) 14 ?
The cheap booze offers down south are an humanitarian initiative because Scots can escape the Brexit catastrophe by turning to independence but our English friends can only turn to drink.
Mind that old calculator that Andy Kerr had, who then gave it to Jackie B… well it seems to have got lost in the SLab bunker as they did not have an alternative Scottish budget today.
They used their letter to Santa instead. FGS!
What are they like eh? 🙂
Dorothy Devine @t 4:33 pm
Re- “Morrison’s booze at 15 quid a bottle but not in Scotland.”
This link may help explain. It also shows how you might compare and contrast prices between Scotland and in the rUK on SPECIFIC alcohol product offers. I think you would need to do this for a proper comparison.
link to groceries.morrisons.com
Liz G
I know you said not to bother with a link but it was quicker and easier than typing out all the vitriol spouted by Neil Oliver link to thenational.scot
Congratulations Stu. I’ve been logging on to WOS from pretty well it’s beginning.you have/ are providing a huge service towards an independent Scotland.
Worst that can happen – for the UK, or Scotland? Boris Johnson as PM.
For the UK he would make the UK’s little Englanders “just get on with it” brigade content.
And for Scotland he will piss off the Scots with his boorish disinterest/ignorance of Scotland and boost support for independence.
Thanks for information everyone , I will be doing a bit of research in all departments!
Och!Neil Oliver , he of the ‘immigration’ to describe the Highland clearances can awa an bile his wee heid. Prof Tom devine is an actual historian and infinitely preferable to the heid tosser.
Here’s a link to the S**r A**a Pipe Band’s first full rehearsal.
Stirring stuff on a very special day for us all.
Hoots tae the Wingers!
twitter.com/HailAlbaPD/status/1072853481927704576
Ach, FFS, the filter even catches banned words if they’re ‘one word’ and in a link…
🙁
Replace HailCaesar! with the S**r and A**a and that should be it.
Despite claims of Tory duplicity, May is considered a 1/7 favorite to win by the bookies. While another set of gamblers have backed May; the FTSE 100 rallying and Pound Sterling rising against the dollar, after respective recent poor performances. On RT.
Place your bets.
Wow – well done the Rev! 5,000 and still rolling along!!!
and what a day for it all.
Weak-kneed Corbyn has just allowed May a year of uninterrupted control. The only government to found in contempt of Parliament, that lost three votes in 2 hours last week and who pulled a crucial vote that should have happened tonight and might never happen
now, may be about to win a vote of ‘ confidence’ on false pretences because ‘now is not the time, stupid schoolboys’.
If Corbyn had called it, we could be facing a GE BUT he missed the chance and blew it!
She’ll get back in, but better the devil you know.
How Nicola deals with this is anyone’s guess – if she calls INDY ref 2 T May could cancel Article 50 or call a second EU ref and pull away the carpet under her feet.
All to play for and none!
Best to keep the powder dry of a bit yet and articles like Neil Oliver’s can only help increase the support for Indy.
Another ‘tray-tor’ – maybe he’ll move south once we are in charge.
Perhaps he and Fluffy will get on well together.
Margaret Beckett on radio just said she wouldn’t trust T May one bit and if she says she won’t lead them into the next GE, then more fool them if they believe her.
Off to make some fresh tea and get the popcorn out.
Happy W.O.S. ANNIVERSARY.
Brilliant Stu – Thanks are hardly enough for your efforts and huge contribution.It will be noted and rewarded – you really are one of Scotland’s foremost national heroes.
It doesn’t matter to us freedom thinking Scots who’s in charge of Westminster , we’re still in the same shithole as we were this morning , dont be disappointed whether its a Red or Blue party , nothing will change our direction OUT OF UK .
I don’t know what I would do without Wings. Been a tricky time for the Rev with the polis and Dugdale etc, but I’ll always support you.
With profound thanks and congratulations on the 5K post.
Here’s to a couple of hundred more, before you switch to how well the newly independent state of Scotland is doing.
Did anybody notice that a new section of the Aberdeen bypass was opened today.
Amazing what the Tories will do to distract attention from the new road oh! and the Scottish Budget.
Aye, but (t)Ruthless has said T May has ‘balls of steel’ and she’s backing her.
(t)Ruthless has probably been filling in all the secret ballot slips today so that she’ll know the result by now.
You have to feel sorry for Boris – he went and got his hair cut special-like cos he thought it was his chance.
Congrats Stu, Wings is my daily read over many years – the only journalist of any note in Scotland (even though…..).
More power to your elbow young man – you’ll get us over the line, I’m sure!!
In Scotland one unit of Alcohol must not be sold at less than 50p,
1lt of RUSSIAN STANDARD VODKA,
bottle size 1000ml x strength ABV 38% divided by 1000 = the amount of units,
so 38 units at 50p a unit = £19
it would be against the law to sell this item in Scotland at less than £19.
cearc says: at 4:25 pm
I reckon Stu’s the ideal man to head-up Scotland’s press regulating body.
Seconded
Meg merrilees says:
12 December, 2018 at 5:51 pm
How Nicola deals with this is anyone’s guess – if she calls INDY ref 2 T May could cancel Article 50 or call a second EU ref and pull away the carpet under her feet.
All to play for and none!
Best to keep the powder dry of a bit yet and articles like Neil Oliver’s can only help increase the support for Indy.
Indeed. Well said, Meg. This is excruciatingly frustrating for hard core indy supporters, but we do have to wait until the EU dust settles. To go prematurely on this would be to lose everything. WM will have to face the music sooner or later, so we might as well enjoy the festive season and prepare for the big battles next year. Besides, why interrupt your enemy…… 🙂
Only a handful of dominoes left to fall. They haven’t fallen yet, but boy they are wobbling fiercely. There is still so much uncertainty, we cannot go just yet until it all becomes obvious. Many soft NO’s are also thinking along these lines, IMO. I have faith that Nicola will know when to pull the trigger and boy when she does, they won’t know what hit em. 🙂
Hold!, Hold!. 🙂
George Freeman MP says
“Powerful & moving moment in the #1922 as the PM makes clear that she has has listened, heard & respects the will of the Party that once she has delivered an orderly Brexit, she will step aside for the election of a new Leader to lead the reunification & renewal we need. Respect. ”
https://
twitter.com/georgefreemanm
p/status/1072900727243268096
…
May probably wants to go but her masters will not let her. She is needed to “finish the job”. She definitely is not interested in her “deal”, but I do wonder what her cunning plan really is:
1. No deal
2. Remain
It’s either of these. I have no idea which, but like Mundell, she will do her masters’ bidding – to the end. We will find out soon enough, I suppose.
The Tories continuing on their way – like a duke in his gilded carriage passing through a country village ravaged by the Plague.
Thanks to all who took the time and trouble to reply to my questions…
WOS at it’s best… everyone who can making,an effort to furnish other Wingers with the information they have asked for.. and then some,the information about playing Hey Jonny Cope was good to have too.
it was indeed Prestonpans I was thinking of…. knew it the as soon as I read it,but the name just wouldn’t come to me.
As for Neil Oliver,( and since this is no a place of work) there’s a few more Scots up to speed with that piece of shit!
So many thanks once again…
Wayhay 5K
ROSS FOR BOSS
link to mobile.twitter.com
😉
Hi Ian Brotherhood.
Strange… weird… spook!
Nana posted that Sa*r Al*a link at 2.32pm on the previous page. HailCaesar! replaced the banned words – but the link took you to the page onnyhoo.
link to twitter.com
Same with your link. I highlighted it in your comment, dragged it to the tab bar, and the correct page opened.
And congrats to Rev Stu for reaching the 5000 post milestone. I wonder if Scotland will be in dependent before WOS reaches a million comments? Only 186,252 to go (as I type).
Had Mundell & May been French at the outbreak of WW2, I can imagine them as informers for the Nazis.
Betrayal suits them. It certainly does now, in our own time.
And the above link works!
SHAZBOT!
“in dependent” should be “independent”!
@Ian Brotherhood,
Saw/seen them on a twitter link,
i played the pipes in the school band,still give the chanter a blaw now and again,
like my fitba career i was more enthusiastic than talented,
do you know if they are going to get a uniform,and if so what tartan,
although each with their own tartan would convey the spirit of all Scotland`s clans coming together for a better Scotland.
Question…
If May survives the vote of confidence from her own party, does that preclude a vote of confidence from the whole House of Commons?
@breeks.
No. But could make it less likely to succeed.
Congratulations on the 5000.
I have always known this site is where Scots can get the truth and best analysis and information about what is actually happening.
Brit media, stopped believing it a long time ago, can’t even watch or read it now without having a chuckle.
Congrats Rev, and thank you
RE: the Sa*r Al*a pipes and drums.
This could start with one piper and one side drummer. When it gets to the bit in the video where the pipers come in, that’s where the whole SAP&D come in.
I can hear it in my head! Brilliant!
link to youtube.com
Aargh…premature posting.
I suppose the opposition VONC in the gov could cause a GE, but Treeza would fight that GE as leader as they couldnt shift her.
Things forgotten about.
The Deal will still not pass.
The DUP will not support the government for much longer with No deal, nor her deal, or in fact, ANY deal with a backstop.
The Holyrood Continuity Bill verdict tomorrow which Scotsgov win either way.
Constitutional crisis to deal with.
Shh…..queen treeza might win VONC so all hail st treeza …
Meg Merrilees naw worries Meg Bbc hiv caught up on the Aberdeen bypass opening , an its baad indeed very baad the only kind of baad its SNP baad ah 1 billion pounds over budget baader , an it gets baader behind schedule .
Hoping you dont hiv nightmares wie ma post Meg Hugs .
Breaks
No. Two separate processes. Today is just conservative internal party business, Not parliamentary.
Thanks Geeo.
Still can’t shake the feeling I’m watching a drama I don’t actually give a flying f___ about.
Brutally frustrated waiting for Scottish Independence to find its way onto the agenda.
Scot Finlayson @ 6.11
Ah…That might explain why I’m no seeing any difference in the price of Bailey’s.. it’s only 17%..
The worst that could happen ?
Theresa May loses
Conservative and unionist party vote for a new leader who is a remainer
Westminster vote to accept remain
Brexit is cancelled…for now..
Nicola Sturgeon announces that a Scottish independence referendum will not be held…for now
The Lords court decision goes against Scotland
Westminster reduces Scotlands budget further
SNP lose support
I lose hope of Scottish independence occurring in my lifetime
Stay brave Terence.
Congrats to Rev & Wings Over Scotland.
Have a great night!
Luigi @ 6.13 & Meg Merrilees @ 5.51
And now why,, we hold, is beyond doubt.
Westminster can indeed pull Brexit anytime it wanted to,while not our only mandate for Indy,the second part of the manifesto commitment is no as prominent,and the British Nationalists will like to pretend that if Brext is gone so is the reason for Indy Ref 2…
But I’d say that the Scottish people simply letting the current Scottish government know they have had enough of this stupid Unions games is the one with the shelf life no matter what they do with their Brext.
I wonder if they will ever understand that for half of Scotland (and rising) Indy is never off the table
Today has been a good day….if you really believe in independence for Scotland………..OK, OK it’s taken me until now to realise this.
I don’t like popcorn so would cashew nuts do instead????
Thank you for your forensic investigations, analysis and quality journalism, and for Chris’s cartoons.
Hoppy birdie Wings, 5000 Flights over Scotland, eagle eyed, never in a flap, soaring above mainstream media!
Thank you for assisting me in breaking bad habits like TV news, newspapers, QT, Newsnight, BBC Radio Scotland and many more disgusting brain washing channels.
Here’s to many more flights!
Terence Callachan@7.09pm
You are some cheerleader for Scottish independence. If you are for independence then get a grip.
@Dorothy Devine
It’s 50p per unit minimum price. Whisky 28 units per 70cl, so £14, or 40 units per litre so £20. Vodka similar, maybe a little cheaper (£13.30 for 70cl. 26.6 units).
link to independent.co.uk
@Liz g,
1lt or 1000ml of Baileys x ABV 17% divided by 1000 = 17units,
at minimum 50p a unit, you could legally sell it in Scotland at £8.50 for 1lt.
Baileys and Guinness are owned by English firm Diageo,
Diageo were behind the legal obstruction of the minimum price and are the voice (with William Grant & Sons Ltd £100,000 to Bitter Together) behind the Scottish Whisky Association,
Karen Betts was appointed as CEO of the Scottish Whisky Association in May 2017, after a 16-year career in the Foreign & Commonwealth Office,
Diageo-SWA-UK GOV = Brutish Establishment.
AND I WILL WALK 5000 MORE! Dadadadadadadada 🙂
5000 Not out!
Well done Rev Stu =)
Happy happy 5000th 🙂
O/T Nigel Huddleston, Tory MP, being interviewed on CNN just now, thinks that if May (assuming she survives the current attempted hard-Leaver coup) returns from “The EU” with some kind of non-binding assurance over the Irish backstop, sufficient Labour MPs will back her Brexit in the eventual WB vote.
Mere wishful thinking, or a sound understanding of where the so-called “opposition” really are…?
NOW only 10 minutes left to vote Hoose of C’s tory politicians.
New game time:
Ahm gonnae guess the difference in tonights votes will be… 23.
With 2 abstentions.
Thank you Stu for opening my eyes to the relentless union propaganda.
I used to never miss the news, read the herald and listen to radio Scotland.
They are no longer part of my life and I feel much the better for it.
If you haven’t made the move consider making it, you won’t regret it.
Basically speaking, the minimum pricing only affects cooking whisky, vodka, gin and rum. No affect on quality 🙂
Congratulations on your 5,000th post!
Despite lies told in papers, television and radio, despite a campaign to try and bring the site down by hackers backed by those who may not be mentioned and despite the BBC doing it’s level best to remove content from this site whilst allowing it to be shown literally EVERYWHERE else, you are STILL here.
Still crunching the numbers and showing that our ‘news’ sources are flat out lying to us, showing that unionist politicians are lying when referring to facts and figures, lying when quoting anyone on the Indy side and lying when making promises to elicit votes for a campaign that cheated to get a slim majority in favour of subjugation.
A concerted campaign of disinformation, lies, attempts to damage reputation, wrongly ascribe quotes, continuously smearing your good name personally and professionally whilst trying to wipe the site off the internet is something that smacks entirely of PRISM – which is exactly what that programme exists to do.
The level of effort put into crushing your voice, and ours, is considerable. And yet it has NOT been crushed, it persists and is able to raise funds (unlike certain former SLAB leaders who lack popular support) Their level of fear is palpable, and rightly so.
Unlike sites like ‘Guido’ which don’t have a ‘Home’ button, therefore requiring you to go back in AGAIN to read another story – and so boosting their log-in figures ten fold, THIS site has popular readership among the public AND politicians. It reaches the parts that other blogs cannot, to borrow an old phrase.
Thanks Stu! And good luck with the NEXT 5,000 posts too! Hopefully we’ll have an independent Scotland by the time you post that one!!
Does anyone seriously think their will be a ‘peoples vote’?
May keeps going on about respecting the wishes of the ‘British people’ and the good of the ‘country’. ie England, England, England.
We really need to stop with ‘this country’ bollocks – SNP MP’s and MSP’s are also occasionally guilty of this, we need to nip this in the bud at each and every opportunity.
Many people in Scotland (and indeed England, Wales & NI) still do not understand the constitutional make-up of the UK. The United Kingdom is not a fucking country.
Cactus @ 19:50,
OK, big man, I’ll play. May to win by a margin of 150 or more…
Liz G @ 7.22 pm and Meg and Luigi,
Yes!
All sorts could yet happen. Hold.
But no matter WHAT unfolds out of Westminster’s clusterbourach, the call for Independence will yet come. Hold.
The people of Scotland are being shown more and more clearly, day by day, exactly how Scotland is held in contempt by the British establishment and our resources and talents filched and abused while being denigrated in the same breath. Hold.
The stark difference in Scotland’s approach to folk who come here to make Scotland their home, or even to be with us a short while, Scotland’s approach to looking after the folk here in Scotland and Scotland’s approach to the rest of the World, Scotland’s approach to global problems and will to actually get on and do something about climate change for example – ALL serve to show folk here that Scotland should be a normal country and have controll of its own affairs. Hold.
In the word of one of our former MSPs, Christian Allard : HOLD =)
This vote on May tonight is of peripheral importance and many people are confused about it as well.
If May gets beaten(unlikely)another person steps up to be leader of the Tory party and government. He or she will be a be brexiteer.
The telling vote is when there is an attempt to get “the deal” through Parliament.
Hi Gary at 7:54 pm.
You typed,
“THIS site has popular readership among the public AND politicians.”
You better believe it! Whenever I’ve chatted to SNP politicians, they have always been aware about what’s on WOS. I believe reading WOS is in the SNP manual, “What To Read and Believe Online”.
8=)
Aweright Robert, what a night, ma second guesstimate in that region is.
147.
I’m predicting May will get 2640 votes.
That means Rock can have the night off!
BBC Reporting Scotland
Glen Campbell and Jackie Bird on full volume Scot Britnat cringe to their masters in Westminster.
The chaos in Westminster is described as “compelling”. A bit like X factor – a vote taking place – nothing to worry about.
A whole range of Tories are dragged out to say how wonderful the Maybot is.
David Duguid says “I’ve always supported the Prime Minister but not through blind loyalty but because she’s this prime minister” – great reason David.
Good for a laugh Glen Campbell actually says “The Scottish secretary not known for his leadership ambitions” just before he interviews Mundell. Of course does not ask him if he will ever resign for any reason ever ever in the future.
Incredibly high Tory MP count in tonight’s programmes. It just shows when they really really try hard how many Tories they can fit in to one programme. Blackford gets less than a second.
In the northern region known as Scotland Jackie tells us ” at Holyrood tonight a huge row over tax” ( no such thing happening at Westminster of course ).
In an independent Scotland none of these Britnats in BBC Reporting Scotland should be allowed anywhere near any media outlets. Pure propaganda merchants all of them with not a shred of professional or personal integrity.
Thanks to the Rev. for helping folks to retain some sort of sanity.
I picked up the other day somewhere online the phrase “Scotland – the common sense country” said in praise. We are respected around the world and the phenomenal shift that our FM is putting in is being recognised and reported everywhere – except of course the BBC and STV. We are putting in all the work, clarifying legal and constitutional options and filling in all the details before we move.
We are making it harder and harder for the UK to stand in front of the world and block our demands.
Am gittin prepared fur anither presidential statement from Tereza couple of glesses of Auld Pulteney an ah can of sweetheart stout, if ah wiz any mair despondent ah wid get pished lol.
Congrats on your milestone, Stu.
Altogether, now …
Rev Stu – an appreciation
[With acknowledgements]
“When he’s posting,
Yes, you know he’s gonna be
The man who’s posting hard for you
[…]
For he has wrote 5 000 posts
And he will post 5 000 more.
Tadalalalala
Tadalalalala
Tadalalalala
For he has wrote 5 000 posts
And he will post 5 000 more.
Tadalalalala
Tadalalalala
Tadalalalala
Please,before it gets Anglified beyond redemption and before Stu hits me with hammers the Gaelic word is bùrach.
I don’t have the Gaelic but I also believe the accent on the u is important.
Eton bùrach takes on a whole different meaning from the usual mess.
Cats out the bag Robin Walker Con MP on CNN saying May will go back to the EU
David Cameron said 3 years ago: “Britain faces a simple and inescapable choice – stability and strong Government with me, or chaos with Ed Milliband”
Truly unbelievable to look back on those words now.
link to bbc.co.uk HYS
Cactus @ 8.07
Eh …. how come you get 2 guesses ?
Next thing ye will want a second Independence Referendum!!!!
Wings Over Scotland is the one news website you can trust as a reliable source of information.
Thank Stuart, for all the effort you’ve put in, it’s much appreciated.
@frogesque
Go here and press the button on the right to hear how it is pronounced.
link to learngaelic.scot
Breeks said this..
……
Still can’t shake the feeling I’m watching a drama I don’t actually give a flying f___ about”.
……..
I have that feeling as well.
Tomorrows Supreme Court ruling and legal/constitutional fall out, is for me the only real show in town.
When under a fifth of the population thinks MPs can be relied upon to tell the truth not only is democracy finished but it deserves to be.
link to t.co
@bjsalba: 8.50
Many thanks for that. I was fairly close but the audio helps enormously
Some clown oan sky’s news ( don’t know who, James sumbody) sayin..
We might have to wait till Spring for Nicola Sturgeon announces her plans for Scotland…
Eh…. She has been saying for years now AUTUMN 2018 OR SPRING 2019 and this fucking idiot tries to make out he is bringing us news….
It is surprising that he supports the “Union” given his family pedigree. The Cameron’s suffered greatly at the hands of “Butcher Cumberland” at and for many years after Culloden.
link to caltonjock.com
may wins 200 for 117 against.
T. May lives to wossiname another day.
200 in support 117 in opposition.
She’s still PM 200 for 117 against.
A m suffish an anest itized no ta e gie ah feck oan Tereza’s remain ing as PM
snap
Well done Rev, the name of this post has successfully predicted the fate of the PM tonight.
OOh is that a Triple Lock?
Liz G
The Battle of Prestonpans is the subject of Outlander….series2 episode 10. I remember the local lad insisting on being heard with his information about the way to go but I must watch it again to see if his name is mentioned. I love this series – read all the books a few years ago. For fantasy fiction it does Scotland proud and the author tries to be historically accurate where possible.
@ronnie anderson
😀 LOLZ
Ron, ahm two drams behind yooz.
Cactus @ 20:07,
Looks like we both got that one wrong by a whopping factor of 2. =laugh=
Still, you were closer (2nd go, and by a smidgen, but still), so I concede. You are the winner!
But all of us are losers in another sense, I suppose…
Scotland owes no bigger debt than to one man and his ten year old computer.
Congratulations and thank you, the Rev. Stuart Campbell.
Ghillie
Thanks for the mention – I’m not doubting – I was thinking out loud just how hard a line Nicola is having to tread because of all this Tory stramash. But just so ah know, do we hiv tae wait til we can see the whites o their eyes?
I think Nicola’s feelings just now are being well advertised and people’s respect for her – on a wider front than home- is growing.
We are so lucky with the quality of our Politicians.
And we have tomorrow’s Supreme Court ruling to anticipate.
Anybody know what time the ruling will be announced?
If I was May I’d call a GE saying vote for me and the Brexit deal or vote for Corbyn and vote for Brexit.
Macart ah hope its the good stuff , works faster lol ah ned tae buy anither bottle an some cans fur the celebratory swally the morrra cheers .
jfngw says:
10 December, 2018 at 11:38 pm (Return Of The Terror):
“Some think May is stumbling around not knowing what to do. Don’t agree, she knows exactly what she is doing. the same as she did when Home Secretary, she is determined to get her own way and is going for my deal or no deal. It’s her mode of operation and always has been.”
Rock says:
11 December, 2018 at 9:39 pm (Return Of The Terror):
“The Establishment and the Tories always know what they are doing. They always make very calculated moves.
They appear as fools and idiots but are most definitely not.
Never underestimate them.”
msdidi @ 9.05
Oh msdidi…. Watched Outlander, read all the books and a fair few actual history book about the Rising but I just could not get the name Prestonpans this morning… LOL
A brain fog
A senior moment
I don’t know…I could actually see the scenes from Outlander in my minds eye but could not mind that name… I kept thinking Sheriffs Muir but I knew that was from an earlier rising.????
Wan o thay days I’m afraid… LOL
That nice Theresa May stays on to deliver Scottish independence before my 80th birthday.
I thank the Tory MP,s for continuing to be, as that nice Andrew Daily Politics says “The most duplicitous electorate in the whole world”
Ghillie @ 8.06
Very well put Ghillie…
What i posted earlier…
“Of course, the cynic says, its all a tory ploy to strengthen her hand in the party.
Have a leadership contest, and win it, seemingly beating her brexit rebels.
Wait as long as possible to hold cancelled vote, so it becomes Her deal or No deal.
We already know it will be rejected, so she stays in charge, and the fannies get their hardest of brexit and the tories blame everyone who voted down her deal for the shambles to follow.
She then calls an election and with everyone blaming opposition for no deal…boom…tories win a majority.
Of course, thats just a cynics view”.
………
Now we have had the side show, roll on tomorrow’s main event.
@ronnie anderson
It’s a win win ron an there’s no that many dominoes left to knock over.
Nearly there. 😉
‘Built to last’-a whimsical notion from 2006- a delusional organisation that recycles its vacuous soundbites on a regular basis.Words and deeds.
‘Today’s result confirms that the Party has changed. It shows that Conservatives support the vital changes that we have made over the last nine months. Those changes are clear. For example, we will put economic stability and fiscal responsibility ahead of promises to cut taxes. Protecting the environment and tackling climate change will be given equal prominence to public services and the economy. We will improve public services for all, rather than promote opt outs for a few. The test for all our policies will be how they help the most disadvantaged in society. We will take action so that our Party reflects Britain as it is today, not Britain as it was. Ours is a message of change, optimism and hope. Our aims and values are as relevant now as they have ever been and this vote demonstrates that they are built to last.’
link to conservativehome.blogs.com
Scotland has been administering end of life care to a system that has been dying for quite some time. Now it’s time for Scotland to take care of the living -in Scotland.
Macart Yup the show goes on , the more the Tories/Labour piddle aboot the more exposed their positions become . I’ll raise a replenished gless or ( couple ) oan the SC decision the morra Win win tonight Win win the morra , ah better no git to euphoric or ah’ll breakoot an break dance lol.
Congrats on the 5000th Stu, its been a pleasure to read and contribute.
Cheers.
Hi msdidi at 9:05 pm.
You typed,
“The Battle of Prestonpans is the subject of Outlander….series2 episode 10.”
You can watch it here:-
link to putlocker.vip
Remember, don’t click on any links that pop up, like Flash Player updates or virus warnings. They are EVIL! And don’t accept any downloads that pop up.
Tetchy Stephen Gethins on tv protesting ‘we’ need a no confidence vote to save ‘the country’ from the incompetent Conservative government. Labour ‘colleagues’ must join the SNP et al in such a vote, even though, arithmetically, no chance of that given continuing DUP support.
The SNP = Save the (British) Nation party?
I don’t really understand why the Tories were allwoed to use taxpayers money for their internal squabble and hold the vote in the palace of Westminster. They should have to hire a hall like any other party would, and pey for it themselves.
“The SNP = Save the (British) Nation party?”
The concern troll – we see you. You’re convincing few here.
“The SNP = Save the (British) Nation party?”
The concern troll – we see you. You’re wasting your time here.
So May cancelled the “meaningful vote” and won the meaningless vote instead. How mean is that!
May saying she will stand down as PM at next GE.
A week’s a long time in politics. She’s lied to the country, to Parliament and now to her own party. She’ll find a way to hang on. It’s what she does time and time again. What’s her gameplan to hang on at next GE? Well with the Henry VIII powers at her disposal she simply doesn’t call the next GE, citing that the country needs a period of stability after Brexit, yadda, yadda…
No GE & May hang’s on. You heard it here first.
Just want to add my sincere thanks to Rev. Stu for all the hard work, diligence, dedication and accurate reporting over many years. In also having the intestinal fortitude to fend off those creepy yoons who try to make your job harder than it need be.
Just one more sleep and BOOM, a new legal minefield opens up regardless of the outcome.
I am betting Scottish sovereignty will be upheld and the Continuity Bill will be upheld, whilst the Westminster Withdrawal Bill will be unconstitutional as it applies to Scotland.
Ronnie Anderson @ 9.40
Don’t you dare be doing any break dancing Ronnie…..
Not until there’s at “least a dozen Wingers there tae see it…. then I’ll even haud yer jacket
In my humble opinion the Maybot winning the vote makes a no deal Brexit more likely. An independence referendum will follow on and a border vote in N Ireland .
No shit Rockshit, how about that, forecasts and you didn’t even need to beg.
So to summarise Rockshit you better start looking for a new job soon and be quick about it for the smarter Britnats on Wings will be doing the same. No need for Britnat trolls in a independent Scotland. I forecast you will end up in London where a big club of Britnat trolls will get together and reminisce about the good ol days in Scotland when Rockshit could post shit.
I’m now getting carried away with this forecasting nonsense.
@kangaroo.
That is the only legitimate verdict available as far as i can see.
9.30am i think i read somewhere ?
Very little UK media coverage about tomorrow’s ruling.
Bloomberg has “Brexit Ruling At The Supreme Court Could Test Unity Of The UK”
Hoping that’s the end of the we’ll back you Jeremy tweets.
Any VONC in the government would be hilarious now, after tonights vote.
Those 117 Tories would be torn. Tempted to vote No confidence in a Treeza run gov, but if they do, and force a GE, then would Treeza not have to be leading said GE for the Tories as they cant touch her for 12 months now.
She is also a lame duck PM as she said she will not be leading the next election.
Now, here is where it gets fun.
If her not leading the next election, was a red line for VONC support amongst that 200 on her side, then an opposition VONC backed by those 117 tory rebels, resulting in collapsing the government, then treeza, despite being safe from party challenge, must resign before said GE.
All more reason to get on with a VONC.
Before recess if the vote is voted down (if we can get it to WM before recess) or as soon as possible if she tries to fudge it until mid to late January.
The ‘rules’ of the Brexit ‘game’ seem simple enough.
1. Northern Ireland must be left close to the EU because of Belfast Treaty obligations.
2. If the Tories want to maintain the integrity of the UK they must keep the whole UK close to the EU
3. The EU don’t trust the Tories so insist Northern Ireland’s closeness is guaranteed by a legally binding clause in the Withdrawal Agreement which they effectively control.
Clearly, the Tories don’t want to play by the rules – that is simply not in their nature! Rules aren’t for them, they are for lesser mortals.
Also, they have vested too much in Brexit to cancel.
That leaves just one way to escape the trap of their own making and achieve the hard Brexit they really want – crash out without a deal and take all the devastating consequences.
liz g Its the faw doon juice talkin , anyhows ah hivnae goat ah square of vinyl lol
albul hacker
Stephen Gethins is very good representing Scotland’s interests. Obviously hacker recognises this hence the attack,
Tories = Brexit, Labour = Brexit
Independent Scotland prevents this.
geek
Did she not say that she would not lead them into the ‘2022’ General Election.
If she said she wouldn’t lead them into the next GE then that is different.
As Margaret Beckett said – I wouldn’t trust her.
Pundits saying NO Deal is receding and possibility of a second EU ref looming… not holding my breath.
What will tomorrow bring?
link to instituteforgovernment.org.uk
An explanation of tomorrow’s implications and also a possible wimpish way out for the Supreme Court.
Ronnie Anderson @ 10.51
VINYL…. whoo hoo…. how posh ir you
We’ve always been slumming it wi Lino!!!
liz g av see the wachcloth days as well
Cearc at 4.25pm “I reckon Stu’s the ideal man to head-up Scotland’s press regulating body.”
No way. We need him to head whatever we replace the BBC with, after every last bastard at Pacific Quay bar the cleaners has been handed their P45.
Hey Robert, aye we were both way out on the vote (although the magic number did appear in the stats) which makes it all the worse for the tory party politicians. Ah was ready for May to do a ‘Gillian Jungle McKeith’ at some point in the proceedings.
Can anybuddy share what 200 to 117 / 83 is in percentage terms?
Hey Liz, ma first prediction was only an advisory suggestion (and was to mock and undermine the tory party politicians) but ma 2nd suggestion was the real thing.
Hey not till Jeudi at hauf pase neufam.
Well done Rev.
Daily reads of your blog and those commenting help to bring some sense to the English Government,s madness!
Time to Dissolve The Union.
Albucac ,unlike you if I were Stephen Gethins I would not be tetchy,you troll,I would be incandescent with rage. Glad we have such responsible SNP MP’s using self control above and beyond the call of duty.
What now? I trust our First Minister to call it when she is good and sure. Now Rock,no premature ejaculation.
@meg.
That link is outdated as it is written before WM shamelessly enacted the rapist charter principle of No means Yes re:consent.
Other than that, good article.
With regards to demain at hauf past neufam, what’s the chances that they won’t air it live on the wireless radio and only make a passing mention laters.
WIN Yes.
When your rich friends complain about higher income tax in Scotland, as well as better services, you should tell them that Tories are talking nonsense over higher taxes when compared to England.
If you take higher Council Tax bills in England, for poorer services, the overall difference is marginal.
If we take Morpeth in Northumberland as an example
Band E pays £761.87 more each year compared to living in Scottish Borders Council area.
Band F pays £817.32 more in England
Band G pays £847.24 more
Band H pays £901.68 more
there is also around £50 per annum higher water rates in England compared to Scotland.
@craig murray
Post Indy, BBC Scotchland staff will become BBC foreign correspondants, surely ?
To that end, and with ZERO license fees from Scotland, we will not have to cull Pathetic Quay, it shall eat itself.
@sinky.
And nearly £100,000 more on average house prices.
geeo @ 22:48:
I don’t believe for an instant that any of those rebels can be counted on a VONC instituted by an opposition party. No matter how much more humiliating it gets (Malta being begged next, anyone?), now that the ultras have been defeated, it will be “circle the wagons time” for any such challenge. Don’t forget, the DUP will be onside for that as well.
It seems to me that the likelihood of ousting the Tory government, of there being a UKGE, or of there being an EURef2 have all significantly diminished. Tomorrow’s UKSC judgement will be interesting but from past performance I can’t see it rising to the occasion. But another door opened or closed is another domino falling, whatever.
Tonight I was re-watching a recent-ish docudrama about the early days of RADAR, and it was the exact same “chicken and egg” dilemma: should one go all-out on an unproven hunch when the proof is only possible by going all-out? What is required is faith based on a sound understanding of the fundamentals. And here the fundamentals are clear, and the possible diversions steadily diminishing.
It’s getting very near time now to make our move.
5000 posts up an’ running, some sad, some funny, some sharp as a rapier.
Every one of them needed as an antidote to the venom from the English Propaganda Services and their overlords of the Establishment.
Stu Campbell & Team 🙂 🙂
geeo
I don’t think that’s quite right. I certainly want all that broadcasting equipment Scots paid for. It’s not gonig to continue to belong to London.
Is there a Wingers Hogmanay pish up arranged?
I’m fair enjoying the final series of the sitcom ‘The Union’….
Cactus @ 11.34
In percentage terms 200 and 117 are 63% 37%
Which means that over a third of her own party
do not think she is capable of leading that party.
Yet she is in charge of Government and brexit
negotiations, and they are ok with that?
Glad May is still there, keeps the pot boiling nicely.
Mrs May refuses to die… she reminds me of Rasputin a wee bit. Apparently he was Wesen!
Just aff the phone tae Big Treeza an she’s promised me a bike fae Santa if a vote fur her
So ah said Aye I’ll vote fur ye hen
Ah kin make promises tae, he he, an wan an the granweans gets a bike
Just how many lives does May have?
2640?
Excellent, thanks for the conversion stats neil, almost similar numbers for Scotland voting to remain in Europe.
Seasons Decemberley greetings everyone!
“On the 12th day of Xmas, the tories gave to thee…”
neil bruce @ 23:59,
Nothing new there, Neil, they are simply emulating within themselves the same degree of (lack of) support the Tories have achieved within England as a whole at every recent UKGE. All thanks to a fixed electoral system that gives themselves and Labour a nice cosy duopoly, and thus free licence to trample over us at their will.
For just as long as we still let them, that is.
Something’s going to have to give. They can’t get rid of May, her “deal” can’t pass in the HoC, it’s like huit clos or cul de sac as we say in English!
I do hope the SC twists the knife another turn tomorrow.
I think May has pushed events for omnths, years, to have a no confidence vote she would win, to reduce the influence of the ERG and the far right, and that it increases the chance of no Brexit at all. It’s also possible that’s been her intention from the start.
Yesindyref2@12.19am
There were reports this afternoon that Downing st instructed ministers to put in the letters that took it over the 48 limit.
My thoughts are: The plan being to win the vote and thus create the situation that for a year she could only leave as PM if:
1. she chooses to resign, or
2. there is a general election and she loses.
1. Is unlikely
2. and the Tories voting for a GE is also very unlikely.
May is unlikely to go for a referendum or delay/rescind article 50. Only possible option is for the EU to ditch the backstop/Ireland and that is unlikely.
No deal Brexit seems the favourite to me.
If you translate Theresa May’s lack of support into people that’s only two thirds of her own party and nobody else from any other, that must only come to around 20% of the entire British Isles
Where’s the mandate or democracy in that it’s clear proof nobody wants this so it’s out and out dictatorship to continue
We need a clever mathy clogs to do the numbers I only do Tory personality slagging, well Labour as well, oh and Liberal Democrat, oh all right the media tae
It’s brilliant to see Wings going from strength to strength after 5000 posts, there are not many bloggers other than celebrities that could hope to match that.
The truth now though is that you Rev are a “big time” celebrity 🙂 at least in Scotland and a wee bit further afield. You have everything a celebrity has including those that love you and those that loathe you LOL.
Well you have to take the bad with the good, but many thanks for all the great work. Still a bit to go yet though we’re getting there, thanks to all those that have contributed articles too and all the posters who help keep the place “lively” as well as us informed and often entertained.
I stumbled in on Wings by accident but I won’t be leaving before the job is done. Cheers for all that you’ve done.
@Cubby
It could be either way.
Anyways, to take partisanship out of this as much as humanly possible, I sincerely hope for the sake of the UK, and for future iScotland with the rUK or whatever it calls itself as our nearest common land border neighbour, that the ERG goes the same way as the Titanic.
What the links are between ERG and the “defunct” Atlantic Bridge I can only guess, but the whole lot are toxic beyond measure, and the land border wouldn’t keep them out of Scotland either. Some of the participants are naive fools, but some aren’t.
@craig murray.
At no point do i mention who gets what bbc equipment !!
So not sure what you are on about there ?
……….
@Robert J. Sutherland.
Maybe you should have read this bit (below) before quoting the later bit you quoted, which was completely out of context for folk not reading this earlier part, huh ?
………
“Those 117 Tories WOULD BE torn. TEMPTED TO vote No confidence in a Treeza run gov, BUT IF they do”…
………
To those that may have missed this with all the drama today, I recommend it as a good analysis of the steps the EU/Ireland can take in the event of a NO DEAL.
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy, they first make Mad.
link to mobile.twitter.com
I used to think Neil Oliver’s choice to keep the flowing locks of the 70s was because he was determined to be the first male to win a L’Oreal ad. contract.
But, noticing his uncanny ability to swivel his head round 180 degrees to face a following camera, I now realise that they are there to cover up the fact he is in fact a BritNat android.
I’m playing catch up, been out all day.
On the whole think its probably good that TM won, a new face would have had to be given a new chance. Same auld, same auld, pish is going to piss off even more of the people, and she is in no way inspirational.
Just remember, all this, is just to entertain us and keep us occupied while the clock ticks down. No deal was always the objective.
I sometimes, as an exercise, ask myself (when stuck) what if I do the absolute opposite of what is expected… what would be the consequences of that? Lets play…
At the moment WM is dreading the point in time when the terms of Brexshit are known and NS calls Indy Ref 2. At that point there is a real possibility they will cancel Brexshit (if they possibly can), or at any least sell something else to kick the can down the road.
So what if, instead of calling Indy Ref 2, NS actually provides the people of Scotland with a Peoples Vote for EU membership, she can’t do it for England or Wales obviously, but as FM, she can certainly carry out a consultative Ref with the voters in Scotland.
I know it’s not directly dealing with Indy, but think of what it would do and the effect in Englandshire, never mind WM.
Of course the only way she could deliver it would be for Scotland to be Indy…. but by holding such a PV, that penny would have to drop for some of our former No’s.
Tis a thought is it not.
Night night all.
Happy 5000th, here’s to many more. Well bloody done! ?
Happy 5000th, here’s to many more. Well bloody done! ?
Well I would read 5000 posts,
and I would 5000 more… 🙂
…just to be the country.
Morning all, the sovereignty of Scotland will be recognised today.
Some things worth watching out for today:
– Sovereign Scotland’s WA announcement
– #fmqs
– Equestrian time
– 5,001
There will be lots to talk about today.
Just a thought anna dinnae ken if it’s ever been charted afore.
Take one venn diagram:
– The Kingdom of sovereign Scotland is to the left
– The Kingdom of England is to the right
– The wee bit in the middle is the United Kingdom
Some live and think in a bubble, when all we need to do is just pull the parts apart.
This venn diagram is no longer required.
Here’s a suggestion:
Some stats on where the site’s readers are from (country). They would be interesting.
Once again Stu. Thanks for all your hard work, it’s much appreciated.
After those 5000 articles Wings has become an institution and no matter how the independence eventually works out that institution will continue.
Like the weather in Scotland, where things can change dramatically in a very short time, political changes fluctuate dramatically and sometimes, like our weather, in quite localised areas.
With the utterly corrupt SMSM Scotland seems to foster, Wings must go on in order to continue to clarify the often nebulous, ever changing, Scottish political weather system.
Derek Mackay giving it to em on the enemy’s airwaves.
What a great start to the day!
Articulately excellent. 🙂
If anyone needs a reminder. Nana left these links yesterday.
Nana says:
12 December, 2018 at 9:14 am
Supreme court ruling re the continuity bill will be announced tomorrow morning Courtroom 1 at 9.30am
As I won’t be around here are a couple of links to keep an eye on
link to supremecourt.uk
link to twitter.com
Live stream of the Supreme Court judgement will be available from 09:30
link to supremecourt.uk
Well no great surprises from Westminster last night. St Theresa will go to Brussels and come back with a plate of Horses Doovers which the MSM will dress up and serve as Steak Pie with broon sauce.
Is it possible that in their desperation over Brexit our colonial oppressors might resort to doing to NI what Labour and Mountbatten did to India i.e announce NI Independence, run away and leave them to the bloodbath that would inevitably follow.
As you might expect, this is quite clever from Jolyon Maugham.
How Theresa May could still get her Brexit deal through parliament
link to archive.fo
Derek Mackay excellent despite the constant interruptions – notice the labour spokesperson not interrupted at all nor the tory. Your wonderful impartial bbc hard at work, even Nicola had to correct their reporting of the msp pay rises and remind them that snp ministers have still frozen their pay at 2008/9 levels – how many tory or labour ministers can say that. Labour has at no time ever stood in solidarity with the ‘workers’ and even as an employer some of them don’t pay even the living wage (Sarwar) and ‘father of the house’ in WM just typifies their sense of entitlement and regard for anyone.
The british broadcasting clones will have a great deal to answer for once Scotland is independent. No other country in the world has to put up with such a miserable biased news output from their own? countries broadcasters. Just have a look at last nights Reporting Scotland for confirmation of horrendous bias and compare how they reported events in WM and Holyrood.
Now that squirrel has passed, just Santa to use as a squirrel, it must be a slow news day because they only talking about yesterdays squirrel, That is until 9.30 today.
May has achieved yet another success in her PM contract to reach March 30 and leave the EU while still in Government.
This has been the contract she entered into upon elevation to the office of Prime Minister. Hindsight and two and a half years of Brexit mumbling and fumbling confirms this.
Self first – and to Brexit hell with 60 million UK citizens.
She has done this by bribery of her own party’s MPs and of the 10 DUP members. She has promised to step aside before the 2022 GE, and she has promised the DUP that she will categorically find a solution to the Backstop which is acceptable to the DUP.
Last nights vote rendered May safe in her position as PM. Nothing and no one can stop her now.
And since a Backstop acceptable to the DUP is impossible, it becomes clearer in a new way, that May has set her mind on a No Deal Brexit – the worst of all worlds.
We can only hope that the Scottish Government will have clear sight of these dynamics and brush off any lingering inclination they may have to believe that what May says or does is reliable.
The endgame of Brexit is Tory Treachery.
The pity is that far too many people in Scotland have yet to learn their lesson.
Interesting, but not surprising, that BBC’c GMS has not once mentioned the impending SC ruling since I switched on at 07:20. It is now 08:57. But then I may have missed any such announcement when I had to visit the wee room.
BBC’s GMS all about TM surviving NC vote and (Lord) Lawson spouting on about UK already trading under WTO rules so no problems in future when UK out of EU. He forgot to mention UK trades under WTO rules because UK is in EU and it’s EU that works under WTO rules where necessary
Half an hour to go for SC’s announcement and no mention either on BBC Scot. news bulletin.
I think I’ll go make another pot of coffee now.
Theresa May may be a ‘lame duck’ PM, safe for another 12 months, but all the opposition looks like headless chickens. So much for that Westminster democracy thing.
The SCOTTISH NATIONAL party needs new a direction. This one is a blind UK alley, you chicks!
Independence….remember that?
Supreme court link going live now.
link to supremecourt.uk
Remember:
12.00 is FMQs
DON’T use the BBC. 🙁
Use:
link to trulyscottishtv.com
or
http://www.scottishparliament.tv
Get the truth.
Morag frae Dundee on the wireless.
Giving it laldi tae Kaye.
A balanced iView.
Thx Morag.
Scotland 1 – 0 UK ?
Scotland 1 – 1 UK
Scotland 2 – 1 UK
SC – Looks like a SG win methinks
Seriously can someone explain all that to me in layman terms 🙁
Supreme court ruling… In plain English for civilians?
Final Score Scotland 3 – 1 UK with a few dubious decisions that we’ll need to wait for the replay to get the full picture 🙂
So are Scotland through to the next round, the Continuity Bill is within the competence of the Scottish Parliament with a number of exceptions and I’ve not a scooby what that means.
Continuity Bill Judgement
Looks like a part win and part lose. Overall the Bill is within the competence of the Scottish Parliament.
No discussion of Sovreignty at all. I guess they steered away from that particular thistle.
Hmmmm.
Copy of the judgement and press release now available which might help make more sense of it all.
link to supremecourt.uk
BBC view …
” Nick Eardley
@nickeardleybbc
NEW: UK Supreme Court rules Scottish Government’s Brexit bill not contrary to constitutional settlements “
The Tory view …
” Adam Tomkins MSP
@ProfTomkins
Supreme Court eviscerates the SNP’s Continuity Bill, striking down several of its key provisions. Judgment leaves the SNP’s legislation in tatters.”
> Supreme court ruling… In plain English for civilians?
I am no lawyer…
However I read that the Continuity Bill is within remit of Scottish parliament.
However subsequent UK legislation supersedes a few areas and makes previous legislation outwith competence of Scottish parliament (as it is the time bill is given assent that matters).
Overall I would say it a win for Scottish parliament. Holyrood can legally refuse consent for Brexit legislation. However Westminster may still be able to over rule that : which leaves them massive political and constitutional headache (which they had hoped to answer in simple manner by winning this case outright).
The SC judgement confirms the power grab, it was competent when passed, now sections of it are not as Westminster has taken these powers.
So my understanding is the ruling comes down down to, ‘Yeah Scotland we are listening but we don’t give a crap’.
If this is not the best time ever for Scotland to get out of this corrupt and damaging union, I don’t know when will be. 🙁
> it was competent when passed, now sections of it are not as Westminster has taken these powers.
Exactly.
Scots law can not interfere with UK legislation.
However this is far from a win for UK government and exposes their naked power grab via subsequent legislation.
Sounds like another BritNat fudge IMO. How bloody typical.
We need a flippin written constitution. 🙁
The Presiding Officer, Ken M.-(BliS/SIU) not coming out of this very well.
Pity the SNP don’t have a bigger reserve on MSPs to put up one of their own.
THIS
link to twitter.com
The Bill was fine when passed, but subsequent actions by Westminster to the withdrawal bill threw a spanner in the works.
Honest to God any reasonable minded Scot that thinks that we are in an equal partnership in the union, this has killed that myth stone dead.
Looks like the most important part of the bill that relates to the return of powers currently with the EU has been found not to be within the Competence of the Scottish Parliament.
This is because the Withdrawal Act which gained royal assent 4 months after publication of the CB specifically included itself in Section 4 of the Scotland Act and that cannot be modified by Holyrood.
It’s a stitch up, don’t think anyone will be surprised to hear.
The implications of this decision is that any bill that Westminster disagrees with can be referred to the SC. As this takes ages they can then pass a bill that stops any Scottish bill.
I’m afraid the Queen has been complicit in this and giving assent to the Westminster bill whilst the Scottish bill was in dispute does not smack of adhering to Scotland’s interest. I think this brings into question the viability of having a royal head of state when Scotland becomes independent.
Jings! Lord Lawson using ‘Nation’ ‘Country’ and ‘Britain’ all in the first two sentences on radio shortbread this morning.
Then off to College Green to hear this ‘new’ voice from ‘our correspondent’ Jim Naughtie! FGS.. Thought I had woken up in the 1980’s.
Never mind upwards and onwards 🙂
Here’s what i don’t understand
If the Continuity Bill was competent when passed surely any subsequent act in contravention of that bill is illegal ?
Jings that’ll take some thinking about. Section 18 is back to the section 28(7) followed by the 27(8) and back to Sewel “normally”. I feel sorry for the press having to quickly try to pick the bones out of this one.
Might as well put a ‘For Sale/To Let’ sign up outside Holyrood and start replacing the word ‘Scotland’ with ‘North Britain’ on the maps.
This situation gets shittier by the day.
Time to grab the red passport and GTFOOH!
Can this fudge be appealed to the ECJ? There must be a strong possibility that Brexit will drag on long after March allowing time for a decision. In any case does UK remain under ECJ juridstiction during the withdrawal period post March?
@Thepnr
That’s the sum and substance. The delay to royal assent of the continuity bill was the crucial factor. Had it been passed at first time of asking…? But they couldn’t have that, now could they.
Just to be clear folks. Devolution is power retained and Conservatives don’t like sharing much. Especially power. Also worth remembering? You CAN change this. You can prevent Westminster governments from taking your rights and freedoms. You can prevent them from altering your choices at their whim.
It’s up to you.
Graeme says:
My understanding is that when it received royal assent which matter.
@Macart
Yup, I think so. The main win is political, but on the other hand it turns out the Presiding Officer was wrong – the Bill at the time WAS within the competence of the Scottish parliament.
Mm, I think the PO does have to consider his position.
So basically speaking Holyrood can pass a Bill within its competence, but if the UK Parlaiment wants to override it, they have to abuse the legal system to delay it by appealing against it, giving themselves time to put in different legislation which pre-empts it retrospectively.
That’s be the Law, but it’s not democracy as I know it, nor is it observing the spirit of the law.
The Presiding Officer should now consider his position.
@Elmac
I don’t think the ECJ will have any interest in this, it is purely law within the UK. It’s up to the Scottish people to deal with this, there is only one way, we need to remove Westminster control over Scotland.
The PO was correct.
The Bill’s Section 17 was outside the remit of Holyrood as it modified the Scotland Act.
The Sections which fell foul of the EU legislation were competent at the time of writing, however the Bill could not have received Royal Assent due to Section 17.
The way is clear however for Westminster to proceed as far as Scottish (devolved) legislation is concerned…
Refer all contentious Scottish legislation to the UKSC, in the meantime pass UK legislation which runs contrary to it, ensuring that the UKSC will find the Scottish Bill to be incompatible with the UK Act.
But can Holyrood play the same game? Sadly, I doubt it.
If it WAS competent at the start, then Westminster came along and changed it at some point, why did ScotGov not then make their changes to the changes? Were the changes made in secret? Is that allowed? Why were Westminster allowed to make changes, but ScotGov weren’t?
And if it still allows the Power Grab to go ahead why is NS posting a happy tweet?
Does this allow us to now say the Union is broken, so goodbye?
Before today some posters were saying no matter the result it would be a “win-win” for Scotland. Is this still true? Did anyone foresee this happening?
Apologies for all the questions. I am very confused.
Here;s another one from Aileen McHarg, similar to LPW but different as well.
link to twitter.com
@yesindyref2
Pretty much. It was always a win, win scenario. Either the Scottish government was going to be proven correct and the entirety of its case upheld. Or the Scottish government was going to be proven correct, but actions of the Westminster government would bend the outcome of the case in their favour. Such actions highlighting both democratic deficit and a will to over ride the wishes of a nation partner.
But essentially the Scottish government were in the right either way.
Westminster governments actions were intentional and will indeed override the democratic choices of Scotland’s population. TBF, Westminster lost the moral case the nanosecond they chose to take a nation partner to court. What they are setting out to do is railroad Scotland’s population and government.
THAT is now a very public display of contempt for the devolution settlement, a nation partner, its population and on public record.
Don’t EVER forget people. Devolution is power retained, not ceded.
Also? Don’t EVER let them forget we saw what they did and that no amount of cleaning through the press will ever wash away that stain.
To be honest I thought the whole point of the ECJ was that if you didn’t like a final ruling in the UK you had a higher European Court that could give you a chance of a fair hearing.
Okey doke, Aileen McHarg says it isn’t a resigning matter for the PO as he acted under legal advice, which can differ. That’s fair enough. As long as that legal advice takes full account of this UKSC ruling, for any FUTURE legislation like this. I have a feeling that might just happen, and the more, the merrier.
Yep, Perfidious Albion up to the usual tricks.
When you try to beat the BritNat establishment using their own set of rules, they move the bloody goalposts. 🙁
Whole ethos of the Continuity Bill is bollocks.
If we stood up for Scottish Sovereignty, there wouldn’t be any powers coming from Europe, but a whole slew of powers returning home from Westminster. The powers “pooled” with Europe would give us the leverage of the whole EU collective, and that’s where they properly should be. The power we need saved from routine abuse and impropriety are those deferred to Westminster. Those are the powers which need brought home.
The EU powers returning to Holyrood via the Continuity Bill is actually an act of acquiescence to Scotland’s subjugation beneath Westminster, and extends a legitimacy and insertion point for Westminster’s faux relevance and its Supreme Court to have a say over Scottish affairs. We could and should properly tell both to butt out of affairs which don’t concern them.
I say fk your Continuity Bill. Holyrood, get off your fkn knees and defend the goddamned Constitutional Sovereignty of our Country.
One_Scot says:
13 December, 2018 at 10:28 am
To be honest I thought the whole point of the ECJ was that if you didn’t like a final ruling in the UK you had a higher European Court that could give you a chance of a fair hearing.
I would respect the authority of an ECJ ruling over a bloody Kangaroo Supreme Court ruling any day. I do not acknowledge the authority of the SC to pass judgment over the sovereign people of Scotland on anything.
Unfortunately, until the majority of my fellow compatriots in Scotland feel the same way, we are where we are. 🙁
This so reminds me of another recent legal mess, the Alistair Carmichael ruling. “Yes, he was caught lying red-handed, BUT…..”. Any feeble excuse to weasel out if it.
Boy the BritNat establishment sure know how to circle the wagons.
@One_Scot
My understanding is the ECJ will only adjudicate on matters involving contravention of EU law. If someone can come up with an angle that contravenes these laws then you can take it to the ECJ. They cannot intervene in domestic laws (unless these break EU law), if they could I’m pretty sure the Catalan’s would have been there already.
The Bill was toast thanks to Section 17 falling foul of the Scotland Act
Nothing to do with EU Withdrawal Act, per se.
Luigi says
“Unfortunately, until the majority of my fellow compatriots in Scotland feel the same way, we are where we are. ?”
5 years in the UK post-Brexit might just be painful enough to persuade them!
1. If it was within the Scottish Parliaments Competency when passed by Holyrood
The Presiding Officer (SiUs Ken McIntosh MSP) should now resign his position (I don’t care that he was following advice, he made the call)
2. Sections of it deemed competent (when passed by Holyrood) are now deemed not to be, because Westminster has taken these powers while The Scottish Government awaited the verdict of the UK Supreme Court
The Presiding Officer (SiUs Ken McIntosh MSP) should add this to his reasons for resigning his position as this delay (his decision to allow delay) to Royal Assent of the Scottish Governments Continuity Bill facilitated these powers returning from the EU being STOLEN by Westminster.
NEVER LET IT BE FORGOTTEN that it was SiUs Ken McIntosh who was the facilitator of the THEFT of powers from the SG which will allow for Fracking, Low Food Safety Standards etc. of our Nation.
Could Scots Gov now challenge the EU Withdrawal Act at the ECJ or UN, as this delay in The Scottish Governments Continuity Bill receiving Royal Assent prior to the UK Governments EU Withdrawal Bill has robbed Scotland of her lawful political powers in reserved matters?
It really was a power grab (aka daylight robbery), who knew? (rhetorical)
Well, no one who gets their news from the Right Wing Neo-Fascist British Nationalist MSM/ BBC or the Non-Dom Press Baron owned dead tree press in Scotland.
There must be an angle for the ECJ relating to a contravention of the sovereignty of the Scottish people (which is undisputable in international law).
The very existance of a UK SC is a contravention of Scottish sovereignty, IMO.
@Abulhaq says: 13 December, 2018 at 9:12 am:
” … The SCOTTISH NATIONAL party needs new a direction. This one is a blind UK alley, you chicks!
Independence….remember that?”</i?
Are the bed comfortable in the 77th's billet, Abulhaq?
OK, this is the crux of it from the press statement.
“Can the Supreme Court consider the effect of the UK Withdrawal Act in the context of this reference?
Yes, because the Court’s task is to decide whether the Bill would be within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament if it received
the Royal Assent at the time of the Court’s decision”
Two things:
0). When the Bill was passed in the Scottish Parliament it was 100% competent.
1). When the UK Gov (Attorney General Keen). made the reference to the UKSC, the UK Withdrawal Act had NOT received Royal Asssent.
2). Had the judgement been made immediately, it would therefore have been quite different – the reference by UKG would have been rejected.
3). Seems to me therefore possible grounds for appeal by SG to a higher court on this (ECJ?), on the grounds the reference should have been rejected at the time of making it. Or even back to the UKSC.
4). Any future reference in those conditions could therefore be thrown out as incompetent. This ruling is now the precedent for that.
That was 4 things, not 2 🙂 5 in fact.
Kangaroo@ 9:43 am
Re – Continuity Bill Judgement, you wrote: “No discussion of Sovereignty at all. I guess they steered away from that particular thistle.”
There may have been no ‘discussion’ of sovereignty but the term does appear 4-5 times. Its use in the statement below stands out for me. When the court makes this kind of statement it suggests that it may see no need for any ‘discussion’ – it has a settled position.
Para 53:
“… a provision which made the effect of laws made by the UK Parliament for Scotland conditional on the consent of the Scottish Ministers, unless it disapplied or repealed the provision in question, would for that very reason be inconsistent with the continued recognition of its (i.e. the UK Parliament’s) UNQUALIFIED SOVEREIGNTY (my emphasis), and therefore tantamount to an amendment of section 28(7) of the Scotland Act.”
Agree with your statement:
“So basically speaking Holyrood can pass a Bill within its competence, but if the UK Parlaiment wants to override it, they have to abuse the legal system to delay it by appealing against it, giving themselves time to put in different legislation which pre-empts it retrospectively.” @yesindyref2 says at 10:17 am.
THE ONLY WAY HOLYROOD CAN PASS A BILL WITHIN ITS COMPETENCE AND HAVE IT ACHIVE ASSENT (Royal or otherwise) WITHOUT INTERFERENCE FROM WESTMINSTER IS…
INDEPENDENCE
Mmm, well, possibly not 100% competent – there’s that Section 17.
Scotland has two big Constitutional deficits which it MUST engage with Europe over.
First is the Sovereign essence to the Article 50 revocation where Westminster has no sovereign mandate to overrule us.
Second, Westminster has no sovereign authority to cause or affect the removal of Scottish powers from Europe. Think about that one a moment. Westminster is removing Scottish competencies from Europe which Westminster doesn’t even have the authority to then hold on too BECAUSE THEY ARE OUR POWERS, and by substantial democratic majority in 2016 Scotland elected to keep those powers IN Europe. What RIGHT has Westminster to even touch them???
FFS, PLEASE! Get a motion before Europe to recognise Scottish Sovereignty, just as Westminster itself has already acknowledged Scotland’s Claim of Right, and secure for Scotland the legal Personality in requires to defend its interests from unconstitutional colonial subjugation.
If the SNP cannot do that, cannot take legitimate action which has multiple overlapping mandates from the Scottish people, superfluous mandates WHICH IT DOESN’T ACTUALLY NEED, then you will have to tell me, what purpose does it serve?
Continuity bill judgement-
Scotland: Goal! The ball went in the net!
England: No it didn’t. Ref!?
Ref: *Thinks*…
England moves net 20m to left
Ref: …*Thinks*
Ref: The ball’s not in the net.
Something like that, I think.
A clearer example of Perfidious Albion in action you will never find.
Anyway, I guess the ruling is probably what we’d have expected within the timescale, and we expected it to be challenged by the UKG with its own EU Withdrawal Bill, and we expected that would therefore receive Royal Assent before ours, hence invalidating parts of ours.
So we expected it all basically – but so did the SG and Wolffe.
So the question now is – was it a one-off, or part of a master plan?
As far as the PO is concerned it’s 100% best if he stays in place, as he can’t be accused of being an SG puppet.
So by devious manipulation of time, connivence of the Queen and retrospective legislation, WM can more or less nullify any Scottish legislation brought forward by the SP.
All of this aided and abetted by the WM led SC in London.
Sovereignty wasn’t really touched upon.
IMO this lesson doesn’t bode well for an Indy Ref-2, because the chances for manipulation are too great for WM to resist. The “Jewel in the Crown” and cashcow is too valuable for them to lose.
To me it looks like sooner or later it’s going to come down to a forceful question of Sovereignty – if we really want our independence then WE have to take it. The Peoples decision.
Whether through the courts, a simple violation of the Treaty o. Union, a majority of seats in elections etc.. All worthy of exploring further.
If you don’t trust WM and I DO NOT, then we should be opening up other angles of attack where possible.
What does the SG and NS, Mike Russel & Co have up their sleeves?
So, I’ve read the judgement and spent half an hour reading various commentary about it, and I still don’t have a clue what has been decided but more importantly what this means for Scotland.
So, we play by the rules, and when it looks like we’re going to win, they change the rule book. It was ever thus.
We were warned the SC was unlikely to give us a full win. None the less, fuck.
So whit to do?.
TM is in power for the for-seeable – which is good, this is going to piss off lots and lots of English people.
She will not get her deal amended, she will not get it past cabinet, she will not get it through the HoC. She most certainly will not risk a vote in HoC which could enable the Cancel Brexit vote.
January 21, seems to be one red letter day (but then haven’t they all been), and from what I can see the EU need clarity on that day, or its NO DEAL.
‘What’s the point Labour’, will continue to hum and haw, and provide English voters with false hope for a PV and / or GE.
As soon as NS calls for IndyRef2, there is every chance TM will sell off more of the family silver and get some form of Transition Deal to kick the can down the road.
I know it isn’t as straight forward as call IndyRef2, but I think the SNP should seriously consider providing the people of Scotland with another Brexit Vote – consultative of course;) The whole permission for S30 thing, isn’t a thing for this issue because its not been done before.
She has been consistent with supporting this UK wide. She can’t make it happen UK wide, but she can provide it for Scotland.
What would be the consequences – instead of almost all of England being sad or outright angry about another IndyRef2, 50% of England would be jealous, supportive, actively campaigning for the same rights. And a sizable proportion of that group would get heard on the media and Social Media – which would then reach the parts of our electorate we find difficult to.
TM and the WM bams would have to put serious energy and resources to their English constituents clamouring for the same vote. They would have less time for the better together2 campaign.
Our former No voters, in voting in another Brexit ref, would come to realise – no doubt with great reluctance, the only way to deliver it is by Indy,
the WM/media would be calling them ‘all-sorts’ this time, as apposed to the vile cyber nats getting all the blame, and they wouldn’t like it one wee bit.
For those concerned with English immigration to Scotland – in this case we might see a great many pro European/pro Indy English coming, and willing and ready to join the cause, and some pro Brexit English residents deciding to return to England in order to ensure they leave Europe. It certainly promotes that dynamic.
NI’s SF have contacted WM and stated in the event of a No Deal, they want a Ref to join Ireland – I think – under terms of GFA, they can get this legally.
If we declare our Scottish PV, it may prevent some DUP types from moving here to cause bother.
Of course if your going to do this, you need a safety net – i.e. an Indy Ref vote 2 weeks after. In that way when canvassing, you only have to cover the ground once, and let WM do its thing to make the second Indy vote necessary.
Brexit is the biggest threat to the wellbeing of all UK residents since WW2. For Scotland it presents an even bigger danger, the power grab, the closing of Holyrood, the wiping out of all things Scottish, and of course – increased and relentless asset stripping while they still can. And if that provokes Irish type dissidents and violence – that is language and behaviour the British are entirely comfortable with.
Right just now the fight to stop Brexit, is intertwined with the fight for Indy in ways that cannot be separated, and we need to use it to our advantage.
Anyway, some thoughts to chew over.
And Tomkins has lost the plot completely. His partisanship “SNP bad” has totally overruled (geddit?) his understanding of Law and Constitution.
Devolution would be sound in principle if there was Constitutional respect.
Devolution in Scotland’s case is the equivalent of signing your pension over to a fraudulent Pensions manager who squanders the lot, then when you argue for justice, you base your entire case upon the worthless promises and fairy stories he sold to you when making the deal. You’re left going round in circles scratching your head over the small print in a worthless paper chase while he’s lying on a beach in the tropics.
Wake up Scotland. It’s Sovereignty or Bust.
yesindyref2 says:
13 December, 2018 at 11:16 am
And Tomkins has lost the plot completely. His partisanship “SNP bad” has totally overruled (geddit?) his understanding of Law and Constitution.
Forget him, he is a Foaming BritNat and a First Class A’Hole. Nothing more.
Is that a clear legal precedent that Section 17 of the Scotland Act 1998 is therefore INCOMPATABLE with the Acts/Treaty of Union 1706/7?
To all that end, worth reading what Sturgeon and Russell have to say about it:
link to twitter.com
I hope that’s most of what Nana would have done, I’m a poor stand-in 🙂
Graf Midgehunter says:
13 December, 2018 at 11:14 am
To me it looks like sooner or later it’s going to come down to a forceful question of Sovereignty – if we really want our independence then WE have to take it. The Peoples decision.
This was always the case, GM. The trick is getting the majority of people in Scotland to understand that, and we are not (quite) there yet. Getting close, IMO.
I do not think for one minute that our SG politicians were naïve enough to think this would be plain sailing. I do think they need to be seen exploring all civil options. Hopefully this devious manouver by the BritNat establishment was already anticipated and the next chess move is imminent. Your move, SG. 🙂
I don’t know what University Tompkins is a professor at but I would avoid my children (they are too old now actually) attending. He seems to have some problem with legal ruling and facts, not a degree I would hold in any esteem. Really bringing the reputation of his institute into disrepute.
I did work in a uni in the 1970’s, not overly impressed with the so called professors and PhD’s, clever but not intelligent seemed quite a regular occurrence. Also unbelievably petty about others behind their backs, some even thought the technical staff were employed to assist in running their private business’s.
BBC runs with the Tory take on the SC judgement, how unusual!
No real surprise over the court ruling given the Tories passed subsequent legislation specifically designed to retain control over the 24 powers in question.
However, May’s deal and remaining in the SM and CU begs the question whether either continuity bill remains relevant. It is one remarkable clusterfeck. If you want something screwed up put the Tories in charge.
Nicola is claiming it as vindication of the Scottish Government’s decision to crete and pass the bill through Holyrood, because it was legal at the time it was passed.
Fact: it was not given Royal Assent at that time. Why?
WM then had the EU Withdrawal Bill passed.
Fact: EU Withdrawal Bill given Royal Assent which rendered it legal and enacted other legislation binding us to UK legislation. The Queen did a dirty one on us there
We have now been outmanoeuvred by WM.
Fact: WM gov. took the Scottish Gov to court to dispute a Bill which at the time it was created was within the law. Why?
Under the Treaty of Union Scots law is superior for certain things, if that has been contested by actually taking us to Court, then yet again WM has breached the terms of its own Treaty.
As Joanna Cherry recently pointed out at WM Scots law has been totally ignored throughout Brexit and to me, it looks like Brexit will cause the demise of Scots Law.
It’s good and it’s bad. It’s what we do next that is crucial and the same holds for T May
No clearing of the mists yet so we wait and stay alert but keep making preparations for Indy.
Mike Russell getting tore into Adam Boulton for his slap down remark on SC verdict ( what ah fanny h Boulton’s not up to speed cause he’s in Brussels )
@Ronnie Anderson –
Hopefully a clip of that will surface in due course.
I’m wondering if Boulton was tired and emotional, as he often is by this time of the morning?
@Kangaroo says: 13 December, 2018 at 9:43 am:
… No discussion of Sovreignty at all. I guess they steered away from that particular thistle.
Hmmmm.”
I’m not a lawyer, Kangaroo, but I believe the fact they did not consider the sovereignty is a win for Scotland.
In law when a point is raised by one party but ignored by the other it is accepted in law as a tacit acceptance of the point raised. So by ignoring it they have accepted that the claim or right is a legal fact.
This is the SNP/SG’s strongest ever, “Claim of Right”, and it has gone uncontested by Westminster since long before the Treaty of Union.
Which Treaty of Union has that Claim of Right writ large. In fact the simple fact that the union was made by the Treaty of Union that is titled, “The United Kingdom”, and only has two signatory kingdoms signatures and royal seals on the document.
It plainly states the United Kingdom is NOT a union of four countries, nor even a single unified country, but is exactly what the title claims it to be – a two partner union of equally sovereign kingdoms.
Yet Westminster has never treated it as such but instead treated Scotland as just another country/kingdom annexed by the Kingdom/country of England.
Which is why Westminster is studiously ignoring it in courts of law – to do so would bring the matter to the fore. However, it doesn’t prevent the SG/SNP from also studiously ignoring it then going ahead and acting as a representative of the legally sovereign people of Scotland.
This then throws the ball right into the Westminster Parliament’s court and gives them the problem of taking the matter back through the Westminster instigated Supreme Court, having it then referred back the ECJ and the matter out in the open.
Westminster cannot go on ignoring it and acting as if they are sovereign over the Kingdom of Scotland if Holyrood begins to act as representing the people of Scotland’s delegated representatives.
The beauty of the matter is that while the UK has no actual Written Constitution the Treaty of Union is indeed a Written Constitution that categorically states it is a union of two, equally sovereign, kingdoms and states that Scots, (and English), law are independent of each other forever.
Let no faction here on Wings, no matter how many and how often, they claim Nicola Sturgeon/The SG/SNP are doing nothing make them correct.
No one can be honestly anti-Nicola/SG/SNP and truthfully claim to support Scottish independence. Factually there are no other organisations or political parties with a hope in Hell of ever regaining Scottish independence from Westminster.
On other such organisation currently exists or is even likely to exist.
tatu 3 @ 10.27
As best as I can explain it …. As I understand it,as I’m no lawyer.
The bill was a test of Holyroods power’s to choose for Scotland within the Devolution “settlement” .
It’s a win win because it either…
A. Enabled Holyrood to protect Scottish resources a wee bit on Brexit,and allowed us to stay aligned to the EU in anticipation of rejoining after Indy..
OR
B. Demonstrated once and for all beyond dispute,the claim that Westminster can and will override Holyrood when it wants to. It is no secret to any of us that they kept for themselves the ability to do so.But to claim that they can and actually will is a very different matter from,putting them in the position that they did.
They (Westminster) have gone and done it,and they’ve done it at a time and over an issue that’s no some obscure point.
But rather over an issue that’s front an centre of the public awareness.Which is also an issue that the Scottish clearly differ from the Westminster Government over.
Never again can they claim that they don’t overrule Holyrood and they’ve shown how exactly they can do it…That’s the one of the Wins from the win win that we won!!!
The Supreme Court were never going to say a thing about Scottish Sovereignty…. They hadn’t been asked to in this instance… They had to take it into account.We know this because they indicated right at the start that “This was Complicated” it was our Sovereignty that complicated it!
if we didn’t retain Sovereignty,Devolution itself wouldn’t be such a dog’s dinner and our whole system would indeed be completely aligned/subsumed to Westminster.
If we have to go to the ECJ with this (don’t think they will) then it still does nothing for Scotland as Westminster are removing that protection from us too soon…
So the only conclusion is that to serve Scotland Devolution doesn’t work.
Appeal to the UCHR. Their findings led to Devolution and the Holyrood Parliament.
The taking of Scottish powers more reasons for an IndyRef.
The Tory psycho bastards. They could not make a bigger mess. A shambles. Westminster is a world laughing stock.
Another four years of this mess? Independence can’t come soon enough.
The third rate unionist liars. They even mucked up the electoral system in Scotland with, no mandate. Trying to ruin the Scottish economy. The Hedge Funds are making £Billions. Everyone else is paying for it, especially the poorest.
I would place the the SC (judgement) under the heading of political expediency.
Westminster can’t have unqualified sovereignty, even under English law sovereignty can’t be removed or taken or indeed bought, it can only be loaned.
Only the Queen of England holds absolute sovereignty, it is her Parliament, it is her government, her civil service and her armed forces. Unfortunately for westminster she wears another crown, with the express remit to uphold the and protect the Sovereignty of the People of Scotland.
This ( judgement ) demonstrates how desperate the situation is for Westminster, to go were none dared before.
We have to hope that Article 50 is withdrawn and Brexit is stopped then the EU Withdrawal Bill can be revoked ( if necessary) and we’re back to status quo.
Hmmm!
“Have you actually read the document” says Mike Russell to Adam Boulton as Mr Russell then proceeds to eviscerate the Sky news presenter all over the TV screen “It states the complete opposite from what you just said” says Mr Russell, then he goes on the explain the judgement and calls the UK *Sleekit* which Boulton translates for English speaking viewers as *sneaky*
as we know in Scotland the words sleekit and sneaky are not entirely the same thing *Sleekit* is a very much more derogatory term for someone than *sneaky*
The context in which Mike Russell used the word Sleekit is much more accurate and those accused of being that in Scotland usually end up getting a pasting from all sides in any argument because we don’t like sleekit people in Scotland ergo we don’t like the Westminster Union ruling cabal of sleekit wee Shi.es!
That’s a T that’s missing because I’m being polite today
Dr Jim
I think I would have translated ‘sleekit ‘ as ‘ Cheating’ since that lis exactly what it is.
It would appear that Ken Mackintosh was either very naughty when he ruled SG was not competent, or he was badly advised.
In any event, how can he remain in the PO role until there is an inquiry to establish what happened? He should suspend himself until there is clarity.
Liz g
If there is a transition period, which depends on a Brexit deal, then the ECJ still has power until the end of the transition period.. Probably another reason for WM to back a No deal
Keep the pressure on, SG. WM’s great strength (bluff, assumed sovereignty, machinations and fudge) is also it’s fatal weakness. How long would it take to challenge this corrupt system again and again and clog up the entire works? A few creative legal spanners could do a lot of damage!
Just saying. 🙂
*Sleekit*
Deceitful – crafty – sly – cunning
Available dictionaries definitions
Ian Brotherhood says:
13 December, 2018 at 11:57 am
It would appear that Ken Mackintosh was either very naughty when he ruled SG was not competent, or he was badly advised.
In any event, how can he remain in the PO role until there is an inquiry to establish what happened? He should suspend himself until there is clarity.
Can he be removed? Or at least embarrassed by a vote at Holyrood? Would be a good way to keep the whole mess in the public eye.
At least we now have a judgement that the devolution settlement is hardly worth the paper that it is written on. Scotland as far as Westminster is concerned is a vassal state, MP’s from England will over rule Scots Law when they feel like it, Scots will have no say in English Law.
Queen Elizabeth has effectively declared herself Queen of England above Scotland. The QEII nomenclature now fits perfectly. The game is nearly up for Westminster and royalty in Scotland, and about time too.
Folk calling for a Scottish backstop yesterday may justifiably think today that we have one.
The WM constructed Tony Blair Supreme Court.
WM saw it coming way back then and thought, this might work.
The Unionists are not daft, a long game suits them, but they’re not right we will overcome in the end.
They are getting desperate down sarf! 🙂
The games afoot
@Luigi says: 13 December, 2018 at 9:58 am:
” … Sounds like another BritNat fudge IMO. How bloody typical.
We need a flippin written constitution. ?”
We already have one, Luigi.
It is called, “The Treaty of Union”, but Westminster has ignored it since 1 May 1707.
Well, Dan Vevers of STV seems to have got it.
@Luigi
Don’t forget the Labour party (and LibDems) fully supported the EU Continutity Bill. No point in picking meaningless scuffles when there are bigger battles to win.
Meg Merrilees @ 11.57
Yes Meg we may have the ability to go to the ECJ over this issue,for a wee while yet!
But I don’t think that they will…and I hope they don’t…
Because it answers only this issue and does nothing to solve the underlying deficiency of the Devolution settlement.
Westminster taking control from Scotland is no longer a theory it’s a fact…
Westminster have killed Devolution today,so the best thing to do now is bury it???
Craig Murrays take:
link to craigmurray.org.uk
“The judgement is as expected and reaffirms Scotland’s colonial status and the London view that the Scotland Act did not recognise any inherent Scottish rights, but rather graciously handed down from above some powers that London may change at a whim, exactly as though Scotland were an English County Council.”
Vassal State.
@jfngw says: 13 December, 2018 at 10:07 am:
” … I’m afraid the Queen has been complicit in this and giving assent to the Westminster bill whilst the Scottish bill was in dispute does not smack of adhering to Scotland’s interest. I think this brings into question the viability of having a royal head of state when Scotland becomes independent.”
On the contrary, jfngw. The independent law of Scotland has had the legal right to throw out any monarch that the legally sovereign people of Scotland deem not to be protecting their sovereignty and to appoint another in their place.
This is plainly stated in the Declaration of Arbroath that was the document accepted by the then international authority. It changed Scots law forever and that is made clear in the Treaty of Union that formed the United Kingdom.
The Treaty of Union must still be in force or there could be no United Kingdom as the United Kingdom only has two signatory partners it is still legally a union of only two kingdoms.
So. if the people of Scotland assert their legal sovereignty Scotland will throw out the current Queen of Scots and perhaps could declare itself a republic.
There is, of course, a precedent in law for such a declaration when the United Kingdom dominion of the Irish Free State declared itself independent and became the Republic of Ireland.
jfngw @ 12.04
That’s a brilliant point..
Evel was ment to be a sop to the English MPs,but that might just come back to bite them
A neat summation.
link to twitter.com
@Robert Peffers
I think that is what I was trying to say, except the treaty part, but maybe not clearly enough.
I was pretty ambivalent towards the monarchy, but as I now see it acting against Scotland’s interest it is time to ditch it.
Now when Scotland becomes independent we will need to split the Crown Jewels, Crown Estates, Works of art all presented to the ruler or of Scotland and England.
Betty has a few solid gold hats with precious jewels embedded.
Just the job for $Billionaire’s like Trump to buy and stick a few extra bob in Scotland’s coffers.
England can keep the hangers on allowances and pay them out themselves.
Agree with your comment at 12:22 pm @Liz g says.
“Westminster have killed Devolution today”
They have also confirmed that they have killed the Union.
This is Judicial Ratification of the Westminster Parliaments numerically weighted bias to serve one of the Partner kingdoms of the United Kingdoms over (and at the expense of) the other
It also ratifies EVEL trumping Devolution.
We Wingers know Scotland gets what England wants.
The Supreme Court have just confirmed this in Law.
@jfngw says: 13 December, 2018 at 10:22 am:
” … I don’t think the ECJ will have any interest in this, it is purely law within the UK. It’s up to the Scottish people to deal with this, there is only one way, we need to remove Westminster control over Scotland.”
Whoa! There!, jfngw.
There is no such Rule of law as UK Law.
There is, in The united Kingdom, only English and Scottish Law and the Treaty of Union states these two are forever independent and incompatible with each other.
Here is Article of Union No. 19:-
So, the UKSC makes a part political decision, as expected, and by doing so has really made a huge mistake in its desperation to find a fudged answer to help out WM.
This was a Win-win either way it went, and remains the case now, perhaps even more so by this desperate attempt to fudge it.
The SC says that the CB was fully competent in Scots Law and within the Competence of the Devolution (Scotland) Act.
Thats a clear win for Scotsgov.
This race to Royal Assent to claim dibs on competence/deny competence, opens up a new can of constitutional worms not there before this ruling.
Apart from the obvious observation that, by WM gaining RA first, then WM is deemed to have struck down a previously competent Scots Law aspect, looks pretty obviously SUBJUGATION of said Scots Law.
And that Subjugation, has been aided and abetted by the Queen herself, by her giving a discriminatory and preferential RA to the WM Bill, which contained a section of legislation which very specifically, DID NOT HAVE Scottish Legislative Consent.
By giving the WM Bill Royal Assent in such circumstances, then surely the Queen has announced herself as sovereign over Scots Law and by definition, over Scots People, which is obviously a stripping of our Legal Sovereignty by the Crown.
There is a strong case for saying that the Queen has ended the Treaty of Union here, never mind WM.
Royal Assent should never have been given to the WM Bill while Scottish Legislative Consent was both, not given nor, while the issue was under judicial review in the courts.
So, A competent expression of Scots Law, SUBJUGATED by ‘sleekit’ WM actions. WIN
The Queen’s SUBJUGATION of Scottish Claim of Rights. WIN
Brexiting Sovereign Scots, Clear SUBJUGATION of Sovereign Will (62% remain) of legally Sovereign Scots to main in the EU – WIN
Now, consider Breeks plan for staking claim to Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty, add the above things to that argument, and we have a compelling case to dissolve the Union.
Add all that to my idea of a politically protective dissolution followed by a plebiscite to affirm it.
Fun times ahead.
So – we have become a republic! What a momentous week.
Like jewels in a crown, the precious stones glittered in the queen’s round metal hat.
— Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey
@Robert Peffers
I didn’t say UK Law, I said Law in the UK, quite a different sentence. Law in the UK was to encompass Scots Law & English Law. The point was the ECJ, as far as I’m aware, will not take a stance in either unless it breaches EU law.
So have I got this right?
The Scottish parliament was given / loaned its powers by Westminster. All its powers.
Westminster has the power and ability to remove or amend any (and all) powers if it sees fit.
Because Westminster is the absolute power in UK law there is no power to overrule it?
It can alter laws to suit if necessary.
Does that mean that, in law Scotland handed all its powers to Westminster in the union of parliaments or whatever. Because “Scotland’s representatives” did that, they were the voice of the sovereign people and in effect the law acts that way?
The sovereign people “agreed” to hand over all powers to Westminster in law? So the argument of the Sovereign will of the people is weakened?
The 50/50 union if it ever existed has been eroded away over time by Westminster being dominated by MP’s from English constituencies controlled by two parties, so that in effect it is England’s parliament.
The only way that Westminster agreed to the devolved parliaments was that they knew that they still had ultimate control. Dewar must have known this, in order to get it through Labour and the Tories would play along under instruction form London.
Please tell that is wrong. PLEASE.
Any suggestion of a threat to Westminster’s supremacy must be voted into law by……. Westminster and as such its not going to happen.
Section 30. Needs to get through Westminster 85% English MP’s. Not going to happen.
Agreement for any change in law. Needs to get through Westminster 85% English MP’s
Not going to happen.
The only way to get someone to do something is that they agree with it (it benefits them or it is right) or they have no choice they are forced to do it. (Law)
Westminster has no desire to allow Scotland to be a self governing country.
The Scottish Tory, Labour and Lib dem MP’s and MSP’s have no intention of allowing Scotland to be a normal country. There is nothing in it for them and they are under Orders from London because it could hurt them.
Hell half the population of Scotland don’t want Scotland to be normal! (That will never, ever make sense to me)
Reading the comments sections on the BBC stories that actually ALLOW comments on Scottish political stories, What Scotland thinks comments pages, The Scotsman comments etc Jesus could you ever find another country on this planet full of such self loathing, pathetic, blinkered, gutless, individuals? Snivelling grovelling individuals all too eager to play the loyal colonist my job before party and both before constituents or country. (Too much?)
Where do we go from here? How do we get out of this?
Ian Brotherhood says:
13 December, 2018 at 11:57 am
It would appear that Ken Mackintosh was either very naughty when he ruled SG was not competent, or he was badly advised.””
……………………
I watched the proceedings in Holyrood when the Lord Advocate, Mr Wolffe QC, one of Scotland’s most distinguished lawyers, addressed the Scottish Parliament on the issue of the Continuity Bill and the competence of the Parliament to pass such a Bill.
One of the standout moments was when he finished his statement and then took questions. One of the first questions, which may have come from a Labour MSP but can’t remember, was to as the Lord Advocate what legal advice he had sought in reaching his conclusion that the Continuity Bill was within the competence of the Scottish Parliament!!!
A gobsmacking moment.
Yet the Presiding Officer giving his ruling that it fell out with the competence of Holyrood was not asked where he got his advice.
The Presiding Officer’s position is no longer tenable. He claimed legal advice informed his opinion but it seemed to be more of a political decision than a legally informed one.
Now, will people accept it is right to refer to the Scot Govt as a puppet govt?
Leadsom has just told the Westminster Parliament that the meaningful vote will not be untl the 21st January 2019.
Nicola is running out of time quickly now.
Telegraph tells us … “Some grim, but hardly unexpected news from EU leaders as they arrive on doorstep “ …. the PMs of Finland and Luxembourg rule out revisiting backstop.
Finland and Luxembourg, aye!
What must it be like to be a small independent country and be able to exercise such power over Brexit!?
2014 NO VOTERS, please think long and hard about this!
“…then surely the Queen has announced herself as sovereign over Scots Law and by definition, over Scots People, which is obviously a stripping of our Legal Sovereignty by the Crown.
There is a strong case for saying that the Queen has ended the Treaty of Union here, never mind WM.” @geeo says at 12:47 pm
Long Live The Scottish Republic, Comrade geeo 😉
Honestly though you make extremely valid points:
1. Brexiting Sovereign Scots, Clear SUBJUGATION of Sovereign Will (62% remain) of legally Sovereign Scots to main in the EU
2. A competent expression of Scots Law (which was to allow Scotland to retain devolved powers and protect the Soveriegn Scots People from excesses of Tory Brexit), SUBJUGATED by ‘sleekit’ WM actions.
3. The Queen’s SUBJUGATION of Scottish Claim of Rights. WIN
That’s ignoring the multitude of Treaty breaches down the years our British Nationalist MPs and MSPs accepted without question.
That’ll be thon Constitutional Crisis that you hear about
🙂
Not in any way a “ legal eagle” , however how on earth can you have a supposed U.K. parliament sanctioning EVEL and since the introduction of this , not have in the context of reserved matters not have SVSL? ie . For any Westminster legislation which in any way affects Scotland , there should in the context of the “ claim of right” and “ sovereignty of the people of Scotland” be a MAJORITY of Scottish Westminster MP’s in favour for that part of the legislation to pass which is relevant to Scotland . If the sovereignty of the people of Scotland is vested in our MP,s then why have we not got Scottish votes for Scots Laws . ?
Won’t be long now before 5001 makes its debut to help us see through the fog.
A lot of good folk are working on the meaning or interpretation of the SC verdict which at first glance doesn’t look too be good for us. However the next 24+ hours should start to clear a way forward and the first shock digested.
We’re not done yet by a long way, we’ll get there. 🙂
Watching FMQs – what a load of pish. All these pompous bluster merchants trying to make some grand outrage because of some number or other they just pulled out their arse.
It’s funny – all these guys, probably all lawyers, lucky to have O Grade Maths, flinging numbers about.
Numbers without context, comparison or time history mean nothing. Real world quantities with a random component mean nothing without the “error bars” – the mean, the variance etc. Most things have a multivariate dependency, with complex causalities. Low frequency events need to be handled with care.
What the govt needs – not only for rebuttal, but for the business of running the country is a realtime information system with full access to govt databases, map data, the whole schmeer. There is no reason why such things do not exist – we got plenty of software companies and a solid fintech sector.
Master control panel apps for corporate internals have been popular for years, so CEOs can sit in their Bond-villain-esqe lairs with a God view of their empires …
People need pictures to make sense of numbers. Can you visual 10, 1000, million, a billion? How much does a hospital cost, an aircraft carrier, a judges salary for a year, or a park-keeper?
– so when FM just shrugs her shoulders and pulls up the numbers on the holographic 4K display
– she doesnt even need to say : YER TALKIN PISH
The drink drive thing – reducing the limit seems good, right – but its not made any difference, probably because drink-driving has already bottomed out. Road accident statistics can act oddly – it was found after making the roads safer, accidents did not go down … because the roads were safer, people drove faster. This is subtle stuff, but not suitable for the YAH BOO nonsense we are getting.
The patience and resilience of the FM (and the REV in other sphere) of being able to deal with constant idiocy from opportunists who are not arguing in good faith – is impressive. At some point FUCK OFF YA DICK is the only -reasonable- response, but you are NOT allowed to utter it.
Colin
No, because a puppet government us one put in place by a ruling power and that government does the rulers’ bidding willingly. Westminster and Holyrood are at loggerheads. Holyrood is not a puppet but it has limited powers and these legal actions and Westminster bullying does the argument for independence no harm.
Lord Advocate statement this afternoon, and Toodles seemed to me to tell it straight.
Disagree that the First Minister is “running out of time” @mountain shadow says at 1:18 pm
“Leadsom has just told the Westminster Parliament that the meaningful vote will not be untl the 21st January 2019.”
This is absolute GOLD for Indy.
21st of January IS THE LATEST the Withdrawal Bill can be passed or it will be NO Deal on the 29th March 2019.
This is Mays ‘call ny bluff’ moment, the “My deal or No Deal” scenario.
That leaves 8 weeks to organise and hold IndyRef2 prior to UK exiting EU on No Deal (S30 or not).
That timescale is doable and I’d say preferable as less time for protracted BetterTogether2 bullshitting.
Bring it on.
Is this the event that pushes the Execute Mandate button?
As each mess begins, expires and generates a newer bigger mess, I wonder when exactly will the SNP call on others to back Independence and go for to the public.
Ive been all for trying to make sure all i’s were dotted and t’s were crossed and even adopting “bigger picture and better good for all for UK folk” approach but now Im losing sight of where our perspective is.
The UK bus is going over a cliff and we still seem happy being told to sit up at the back.
@Jockanese Wind talker
That timescale is doable and I’d say preferable as less time for protracted BetterTogether2 bullshitting.
This with or without an approved Article 30 from Westminster? ( im assuming they would never approve it to be honest – now is not the time etc)
BTW, at FMQs did anyone else catch what Jackie B. said when she blurted out that Scotland was an “energy rich counry”..!
I’m afraid that our favourite echo-chamber is in danger of generating more heat than light.
No good comes of those shouting wee wiz robbed as you seem to be missing a basic fact from the UKSC judgement…
Section 17 of Holyrood’s Bill was outside the competence of Holyrood as it strayed into the realms of Westminster’s Scotland Act.
Even if Westminster’s EU Withdrawal Act wasn’t in place, Holyrood’s Bill would still have been found to be incompetent as a result of Westminster’s Scotland Act.
That aside, this episode demonstrates clearly the extent to which Westminster can and will go to frustrate Holyrood – and the impotence of Holyrood in the face of such action.
I hope these English bastards on the frontline of the Brexit negotiations remember that they completely ignored the voices and opinions of the people of Scotland
Sorry, “energy rich country”..! (With a T)
Jockanese Wind Talker
Somewhat agree with the sentiment re the January date.
The end of March also needs to dawn in all it’s glorious technicolour chaos for people to see what will actually happen.
Everyone needs to be patient and also people need to be aware of agitators who would plant the seeds of panicked or premature actions. March will come soon enough and then we’ll really witness how strong and stable the UK is (or isn’t).
I’m only for IndyRef2 prior to 29th March 2019 to allow us to remain in the EU @Giving Goose says
I fear after the 29th it’ll be the closure of Holyrood and the imposition of direct rule via a State of Emergency.
No IndyRef2 will be tolerated by Westminster once we have lost the protections of EU Law.
The SC ruling hung Livingston and Keen out to dry, no sympathy for them, history will remember them for what they are, what a legacy to leave your kids.
That aside, the Queen, knowingly or otherwise signed the Withdrawal act, against the express will of the People of Scotland, but I’m struggling with this, the withdrawal act has not yet be enacted, that would surely only take place on the 29th of March 2019, when it came into force.
Or, has it already come into force, and what part of the Act brought it into force. Was it the inclusion of Henry the 8th powers, are they already being used.
The inclusion of these powers were undemocratic, they refer to England. However we could counter with reference to the Act of Security 1704, the Act deals with succession to the throne and who decides. Might be worth reminding her Majesty just how missed we could be.
Should read, ‘ just how missed off we could be ‘.
It’s done it again. Read ‘ pissed ‘ instead of missed.
With or without a S30.
Remember this:
Without an S30 it would be an “ADVISORY REFERENDUM” @desimond says at 1:46 pm
Also remember Brexit is the result of Davie @oink oink’ Camerons ADVISORY REFERENDUM on leaving the EU.
That ADVISORY REFERENDUM has led us to the brink of a Hard Brexit or a No Deal Brexit
Mair than one way tae skin a cat.
@Robert Peffers
Is it at all possible that you could write and maintain a blog in order that many of your excellent points regarding Scots law and sovereignty could be more readily accessed and quoted?
There are several times when I have sought to refer back to some of the points you have made on these matters that require google searching Wings to find. It can be somewhat difficult wading through that to source the information I am looking for.
I’m sure I am not alone in recognising your authority on these matters on here. I sincerely feel that an archived and easily retrievable set of articles would serve those of us interested in the legalities of Independence/Sovereignty and historical issues pertaining to Scotland – extremely well.
Let’s not forget, dear old Lizzie also signed off on the theft of 6,000sq miles of Scotland’s seas. (Rushed through, the night before the reconvening of the Scottish Parliament)
Jockanese Wind Talker says:
13 December, 2018 at 1:40 pm
“Leadsom has just told the Westminster Parliament that the meaningful vote will not be untl the 21st January 2019.”
This is absolute GOLD for Indy.
21st of January IS THE LATEST the Withdrawal Bill can be passed or it will be NO Deal on the 29th March 2019.
This is Mays ‘call ny bluff’ moment, the “My deal or No Deal” scenario.
That leaves 8 weeks to organise and hold IndyRef2 prior to UK exiting EU on No Deal (S30 or not).
Aye, but remember, just cos they promise something, don’t take it as a given. We have been here before. I would not be surprised if (probably on the 20th January), they announced a further delay with a lame excuse to kick it further down the road.
It seems that May and her masters are intent on denying the HoC any say whatsoever on the “deal” (until it is too late).
Scottish Parliament TV. Thursday 13/12/2018
FIRST MINISTER’S QUESTIONS
Now in archive:
link to tinyurl.com
Surely after this latest Supreme court ruling, it’s time to announce when the next indyref will be held.
I feel this ruling leave the very foundations of Holyrood in doubt.
@galamcennalath
I have sadly come to the conclusion that Scottish independence under the present political dispensation is unlikely. There is no coherent popular ‘lust’ for it, albeit plenty of wishful thinking. The SNP toys with the notion and by its patent lack of any articulated strategy seems also not to have any urgent craving. It is a party of talkers of the talk, a very British thing, which appears to prefer the safety of the devolved status quo to the exhilarating intellectual turbulence of a restored national independence and sovereignty.
Three hundred years on the short lead has made cowards or jobsworths of too many, particularly it seems Scotland’s current squad of self-styled ‘leaders’.
From out of the noxious miasma of this Brexit farce must emerge fresh perspectives and thinking in Scottish politics and even new parties in which it might profitably flourish.
Discarding the colonial straitjacket/millstone of British political convention and praxis would be a good beginning, something to whet the jaded appetite.
Jockanese Wind Talker says:
13 December, 2018 at 1:40 pm
Disagree that the First Minister is “running out of time” @mountain shadow says at 1:18 pm
If the remnants of the UK and Scotland diverge, with Westminsterland heading for a cliff edge Hard Brexit and Scotland opting to Remain in the EU, what that means on 29th of March is that English trade with the Continent will suddenly be in chaos through a Customs bottleneck which is essentially going to bring trade to a halt.
Even if Scotland gets its Constitutional act together, cites our Sovereignty as due cause to remain in Europe and successfully revokes Scotland’s Article 50 declaration, we might very well keep ourselves technically in the EU by definition, but without the infrastructure to make it work for us.
Scottish Trade might not be blocked from Europe in theory, but unless Scotland has functional ports and cargo terminals fully operational by the same March 29th Deadline, Scotland’s Trade will be strangled by the same failures in through capacity that will affect all other cross channel trade.
We have 106 days to win our case for Sovereignty and recognised Legal Personality, secure ourselves an alternative fate to Westminster’s hard Brexit, and bring online the freight handling capacity to keep Scottish goods moving in and out of Scotland irrespective of what happens England.
Furthermore, as Scotland remains in Europe and England departs, Our land Border with England becomes a border between the European Union and an England that is determined to deregulate its economic trade. We will NEED a Customs Border with England covering all road, rail and air cargo from day 1.
I put it to you that’s a helluva lot to get done inside 106 days, and frankly to sit and say we are not running out of time is delusional frankly.
I could honestly say a lot more about comparisons between Westminster’s delusional lack of preparedness and misleading the public over its Brexit Options with a Scottish Government which seems increasingly delusional about its own lack of preparedness, and frankly, it’s alarming lacking of transparency and commitment towards Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty.
For Theresa May’s “strong and stable, Brexit means Brexit” guff, substitute Nicola Sturgeon’s “Wait until we see the details” guff. It’s the exact same precious commodity of time being squandered.
Theresa May’s year’s of dithering prevarication now has a Brexit Express train hurtling full speed towards her, and Scotland’s precious Escape lifeline is perilously close to being impractical through nobodies fault except our own dithering and indecisive commitments to both Europe and our own Constitutional Sovereignty.
Where is our escape strategy? Where are our red lines? Where are our critical markers? What are our deadlines and cut off points??? Ireland has a Constitutional Backstop, where the hell is ours??? Still on the fkn drawing board.
106 days. That’s 15 weeks. 75 working days assuming you don’t include Christmas. Running out of time? You’re god damned right we are.
Abulhaq @ 14:56,
Well, that’s an evident self-fullfilling prophecy of doom. Defeatism writ large. When will it ever get through to thickheads (or shit-stirrers?) like you that the numbers will only move once a campaign is under way and people are finally confronted with the realities? When we have an opportunity to expose all the distortions and bypass the media self-censorship.
If we wait for a shift in opinion in a public assailed by a barrage of lies and confusions, we’ll wait forever. It’s getting high time to set the agenda, not be a passive victim to someone else’s.
“….we might very well keep ourselves technically in the EU by definition, but without the infrastructure to make it work for us.” Breeks says at 3:09 pm
Potentially Breeks
But we would have the resources to back short term interim measures like hiring aircraft to ensure import/export (and sea freighters) while facilitating infrastructure builds.
rUK not so much, they’d be hiding from the Sheriffs Officers.
Jockanese Wind Talker says:
13 December, 2018 at 3:29 pm
“….we might very well keep ourselves technically in the EU by definition, but without the infrastructure to make it work for us.” Breeks says at 3:09 pm
Potentially Breeks.
Show me ANY contingency measure that is already in place. Anything. A single brick that’s been laid.
We have 0 Scottish Customs Officers. They are all UK. We have 0 Scottish Troops to maintain order and distribute supplies. They are all UK.
What capacity do we have physically halt a lorry full of contraband travelling up the A1? Because if Scotland’s ports are open but England’s are closed, you can divide the numbers of lorries backed up at Dover and place half of them a Berwick or Gretna.
Is there even a Planning Application for Customs facilities?
Maybe the Dutch Air Force will overfly Scotland dropping bread.
106 days man. 106 days. The only thing there’s any certainty about.
@jfngw says: 13 December, 2018 at 12:55 pm:
” … I didn’t say UK Law, I said Law in the UK, quite a different sentence. Law in the UK was to encompass Scots Law & English Law. The point was the ECJ, as far as I’m aware, will not take a stance in either unless it breaches EU law.”
I know exactly what you wrote, jfngw, but I think you are missing my point. It does concern EU law for the simple reason that as an equally sovereign partner in the United Kingdom every Scot is an EU citizen. Part of the entire EU raison d’être was, and is, the protection of EU Citizens.
To the extent that there are no EU laws, regulations or other legal mechanisms to expel an EU citizen against their will. Any EU citizen has the legal right to use any EU member state’s embassy or consulate in any part of the World.
The prime idea behind the EU’s formation was to curb the European nations from going to war with each other. It has to be said that the prime culprit in whose wars, including both World Wars was the United Kingdom.
So , as EU citizens, the Scots have every bit as much right under EU Law as have any other EU citizens. Where the EU got it wrong was in believing the Westminster brain-washing and letting the United Kingdom join as if as a single unified country.
If you don’t believe that then have a look at some of the early statements of EU and EC officials. They originally kept referring to the United Kingdom as an EU, “Member Country”, but the UK is legally not the unified country Westminster claims it to be. It is exactly as it’s title describes it – a united kingdom composed of only two member kingdoms one of which is composed of three distinct countries.
If the EU does not uphold the legal standing of the Kingdom of Scotland where our legal system is independent of that of the English Kingdom than the EU has broken its own laws and is expelling legally sovereign Scottish/UK/EU citizens against their stated will and if the EU cannot thus protect their EU citizens then the EU is finished by failing in its prime purpose.
The EU must protect the human rights of the legally sovereign people of Scotland to remain as EU citizens just as surely as they must also protect the rights of their Kingdom of England Citizens to leave the EU.
It is factual that the United Kingdom is a two partner union of kingdoms and one voted to stay while the other voted to leave. Now, as already stated the EU has no legal way to expel any EU citizen against their will and thus the only way for an EU citizen to leave is by a written request to do so – we are currently in the midst of just such an arrangement as the Westminster Government did indeed put in such a legal request.
If you remember correctly the Westminster Government at first thought all they needed to do was say – we are out of here and then just go but the EU insisted that the couldn’t go unless by formal written request. However, in this instance the Holyrood Government already had a mandate that in effect said, “In this case you do not speak for the people of Scotland”.
When push comes to shove the Treaty of Union is a written constitution of the United Kingdom and if the people of Scotland say the union is over it legally is over.
@William Wallace says: 13 December, 2018 at 2:09 pm:
” …
Is it at all possible that you could write and maintain a blog in order that many of your excellent points regarding Scots law and sovereignty could be more readily accessed and quoted?”
Sorry, William but I cannot do so.
I used to run my own website, back in the days when to do so required much hand typed HTML code. I had many hundreds of my own short stories, poems and lots of other items including Scots politics.
Unfortunately a drunk driver hit our car and it resulted in my late wife’s premature death. She spent the rest of what was a painful and dreadful existence confined in a wheelchair and I also got spinal, neck and limb injuries that became arthritic.
Some days I need help just getting out of bed and have acquired several related illness’s.
@William Wallace 2:09pm
I have long thought that the best place for a repository for such things, and also for long running discussion topics is a bulletin board, or web forum. They are simple to set up, generally free, or low cost if you pay to have advertising removed, but require some maintenance and moderation. They seem to have fallen out of fashion, which is a shame.
I used to run one such pro independence forum some years ago. I don’t currently have the time to maintain one, but might be persuaded to set one up again if there was enough interest and someone was willing to maintain and moderate it.
Just a thought.
Golfnut
I believe it comes into law at the point when it gains Royal Assent.
The recent ruling on the Scottish Continuity bill said that it was lawful when it was drafted but that it did not come into Law until it received Royal Assent by which time the WM EU Withdrawal Bill had already been given Royal assent and had been drafted in a deliberate way to surmount Scottish Rulings rendering them unconstitutional.
Jack Murphy @ 2.47 pm
Thank you for the link to the Scottish Parliament today.
I listened to the Lord Advocate and our MSPs on today’s SC ruling.
Please folk, do go and hear this from original source.
THIS is the kind of knowledge we need to have to help us convince EVERYONE voting in our vote for Independence that Scotland SHOULD be an Independent Nation.
Scotland was shafted by the UK government.
Again.
And this the people of Scotland NEED to know.
Our Lord Advocate is a quiet spoken man who packs quite a punch 🙂
@ Robert Peffers
Smallaxe did mention to me when I met him up in Dumfries that you’d gone through some seriously hard times on a personal level throughout your life.
Being a gentleman of absolute discretion, he did not allude to the nature of what that was and I never thought it pertinent to probe but, I’m sorry to hear that such ill fortune has befallen you over the years.
I have a fair amount of experience in web development and can program in various languages. There are a whole raft of CMS (Content Management Systems) options these days that can be setup for free that are basically turnkey operations.
I would not mind setting one up for you and giving you the keys (so to speak). All it would really require from you is pretty much what you do now and that is to share your thoughts and knowledge and basically press “Enter”.
Give the matter some thought and if it is of interest to you then give me a shout as I’d me more than willing to help get everything set up on your behalf.
@Stravaiger
I agree with you on bulletin boards such as phpBB being a great space for article writing as well as for easy referencing. I think Social Media has, to a greater extent rendered them redundant which is unfortunate. They were all the rage at one point.
Perhaps it’s something that some of us on WoS could look into maintaining as a group in order that some of the sage advice or high quality points of view shared here and on other pro-indy spaces, can be more easily archived and retrieved for future reference.
I’d certainly be more than willing to donate a little time to such a project.