Not in your papers tomorrow
Alert readers may recall a very recent incident where the Daily Record made baseless insinuations about a trip by former SNP MP Natalie McGarry to Syria, and whether its funding had been declared on the Parliamentary Register Of Members’ Interests.
(It had been, and the Record still hasn’t clarified its article to that effect.)
So here’s a thing.
Nil? Zero? Nothing at all? That seems… wrong.
Because, of course, this happened:
Those opposed to Carmichael’s refusal to stand down as an MP in the wake of “memogate” have enjoyed contrasting the feeble total raised in support of the known liar with the sum donated to challenge his election in court (currently over £178,000 and rising). But £8,340 is still a significant sum of money.
MPs have four weeks to register income and interests. We don’t know how much of the fundraised total has actually been delivered to Carmichael, but since the appeal has no set end date (other crowdfunders like Indiegogo only pay up after a campaign closes) it seems logical to assume that payments must be made along the way.
(The organiser says “I will transfer the money as Alistair directs, to his solicitors”, but that would still seem to be a benefit requiring inclusion on the Register.)
Most donations to the disgraced member for Orkney and Shetland were made in the early days of the campaign, which is to say in the first part of September. We would be extremely surprised if none of them had been disbursed. So why isn’t it declared?
We’ve contacted GoFundMe, and we’ll keep you updated on our investigation.
How many lies does it take for a person to be considered to have stepped over the line from liar to pathological liar?
I think the phrase is “compulsive liar”. You can get treatment for it.
Ah but it doesnt relate to him personally or his conduct so he’ll have to be exonerated?
One rule for them & another for SNP reps-aye right
Why am I not surprised?
Oh no Alistair surely not?
blatant liar…no surprises
I noticed “the stress” his family have been put under by they nasty nats husnae put him aff his tea. #doublechin
£179,505GBP
As at 19.06
Please keep sharing the link
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/
Just what do Liberal Democrats MPs have to do to be forced to resign, or to call a by-election? What is their base line low in the moral vacuum stakes?
I am not waiting for the so called Standards Commissioner to find against him either people. The Brit Nat Press and Media narrative on that is already up and running.
Just dropped into the crowdfunder. Seems IndieGoGo is pretty busy, took me 3 goes and finally a different browser before I could donate.
If Carmichael isn’t guilty in Law then the Law needs changing pdq.
Update: Now over £180k.
Iain More at 7:10pm
I don’t see how the Standards Commissioner can find him to be in anything other than breach of the code, given the fact he EXPRESSLY admitted he was “south of the standard that would be expected of the (ministerial) code” during the trial.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-34760810
You are on fire today Stuart. Well done!
The last two articles don’t show on the WoS front page again, Rev Stu.
I had to use the ? at the end of the url to make them show up.
As far as I’m concerned and it is purely an opinion, not in any way a claim of fact in Law or otherwise, Carmicheal is an insult to his own electorate, Scotland and the wider UK that we are currently saddled with.
The man is despicable.
Think Rev is busy grabbing Dr Scott Arthur by the short and curlies
I do wish people would stop calling carmicheal a liar or proven liar….
Carmicheal is a BLATANT LIAR
remember that folks….you can put that on a badge, a t shirt, a bill board or on the mountainside in letters 10 fukcin’ feet tall and no one can do anything about it. it will not be libellous or defamatory
it is a legal ruling
I just donated £50 more
Nearly £181,000 now
WHEN DO WE HEAR ABOUT THE COSTS?
I really want to say that I am surprised that a person who is a member of parliament and, by extension, assumed to be a person of infallible honesty and above reproach would continue to tell outright LIES by NOT adequately informing the Register of Member’s financial interests.
However, we are discussing Alistair “Liar Liar pant’s on fire” Carmichael here so NOTHING surprises me here about the actions of such a DESPICABLE individual!
The Carmichael ruling is nothing if not predictable.
The British Establishment will always protect its own and those who serve it. Doesn’t matter whether you have shot prostrate youngsters in the head from point blank range with a high velocity rifle in front of dozens of witnesses in Derry. Or caused the deaths of scores of football fans at Hillsborough, then lied about the circumstances and orchestrated a smear campaign against the dead. Or lied the UK into an illegal war that caused the deaths of over a million Iraqis and led directly to the current disaster in the Middle East. Or fitted up innocent Irish workers for bombings you know they didn’t commit. Or spread poisonous fabrications in an attempt to influence the outcome of the democratic process…
There may be the tiresome theatre of a court case or an inquiry (invariably an inquiry held as far after the event as possible and lasting as long as possible). But the Establishment will ensure that you will be okay – don’t have any doubts about that. Just as that same Establishment will ensure that those who threaten it will definitely not be okay – as politically motivated rioters given sentences of years for stealing bottles of water would be able to testify.
Despite the state’s propaganda that would have you believe the opposite, British justice is, in reality, a medieval farce.
O/T
The BBC take the biscuit – a bath oliver?
They tell us that Angela Merkel is Time Person of the Year.
But – “Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was named runner-up and third place went to US presidential hopeful Donald Trump.”
What a star spangled field!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35048796
What they omit to mention is that the readers voted Bernie Sanders as No 1 by a large margin. But he was left off the shortlist by the editors. Looks like Putin didn’t make it either as there are only 7 listed and not 8. You have to read RT to find that out.
https://www.rt.com/usa/325153-bernie-sanders-time-readers/
You could get well tired, real quick at the double standards being applied by Westminster and its dog whistle media. One rule for the SNP and a free by for every other bugger.
Still wondering when this better togetherness is meant to start? Y’know pooling and sharing, one big happy family of nations with no differences thing?
So far the Scottish representation has been made to feel about as welcome as a plague carrier. Both our MPs and our electorate have effectively been made second class citizens in our own country. We’ve been told that manipulation of our opinion via lies, smear and innuendo is acceptable political practice today.
At what point do people decide this isn’t what they signed up for? That better togetherness, along with maximum devolution was never on the table and indeed never intended from the get go?
If folks are feeling a little put out at todays ruling, they know what to do in May.
Pass a little judgement and deliver a little justice of their own.
Root and branch is the only answer.
@David McDowell says: 9 December, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Iain More at 7:10pm
“I don’t see how the Standards Commissioner can find him to be in anything other than breach of the code, given the fact he EXPRESSLY admitted he was “south of the standard that would be expected of the (ministerial) code” during the trial.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-34760810“.
I would hazard the guess that if Al Carmichael is truly innocent then the trial of Al Capone was a grave miscarriage of Justice.
Robert Peffers says:
I would hazard the guess that if Al Carmichael is truly innocent then the trial of Al Capone was a grave miscarriage of Justice.
Haven’t you heard Robert?
Al Capone’s appeal to have his conviction quashed comes up in the Appeal court next Tuesday! 😀
@Xaracen says: 9 December, 2015 at 7:34 pm:
“The last two articles don’t show on the WoS front page again, Rev Stu.
I had to use the ? at the end of the url to make them show up.”
If you reach or scroll to the end of the topic that you are reading you will see a couple of links, (coloured green), on the left and right respectively.
They each have a wee arrow pointing either left to the previous topic or right to the next topic. If there isn’t a right pointing arrow and title there are no more topics.
Remember, though, right click on a free space and refresh first.
@frogesque says: 9 December, 2015 at 7:43 pm:
” … The man is despicable.”
You wouldn’t be mixing him up with Daffy Duck, perchance?
After hearing Ms Mathieson one if the Orkney 4 on radio scotland around 5.30 or a wee bit later saying she was a corbyn supporter and thinking of joining labour, we the lib dems and msm stop saying that the case was brougt by nationalists
@Lesley-Anne says: 9 December, 2015 at 8:47 pm:
” … Haven’t you heard Robert?
Al Capone’s appeal to have his conviction quashed comes up in the Appeal court next Tuesday! ?
Wasn’t that Tuesday Appeal a joint appeal with Machinegun Kelly?
Robert Peffers says:
9 December, 2015 at 9:03 pm
Wasn’t that Tuesday Appeal a joint appeal with Machinegun Kelly?
You DID get the memo after all Robert! 😀
Macart
What baffles me is Carmichael’s assertion, reported faithfully everywhere that the case was “politically motivated” and presumably therefore illegitimate or dishonest- a “nationalist plot” and yet his whole defence appears to be that when he lied it was a politically motivated lie rather than a personal lie.
I can’t process that level of inconsistency. The accusations that the case by the Orkney 4 has been a nationalist witch-hunt comes amid at the height of the UK press and unionist parties witch-hunt against the SNP members, councillors, MSPs and now MPs. Hearing them bleat about the “nationalists” AKA the ordinary people of Scotland going after one of their own is just epic hypocrisy.
How many legal actions like this would need to be taken out against unionist MPs before a kind of balance could be reached?
The Orkney 4 went to some lengths to point out that their case was not politically motivated and they did not represent a single political entity. That has been casually dismissed with the disdain afforded ordinary people in the UK.
I punted some money in some time ago and will do so again when I can. Carmichael would do well to ignore calls to pursue his constituents to recover his legal costs. If Fozzy strikes them down, the Orkney 4 shall become more powerful than he can possibly imagine.
At 11.24 this morning the ‘People Versus Carmichael’ pot was £167,640.
It’s now at £182,090
£14.5k in a little over 10 hours.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/
@proadge (8.29) –
‘British justice is, in reality, a medieval farce.’
Hear hear.
And credit where it’s due – ‘Rock’ was warning this would happen, many moons ago.
@Cadogan Enright
The last update from the Orkney 4, which is on the page, said an additional 75k was estimated as being needed, which I think brought it to £206k.
That’s the target for their estimatedcosts at this point
@Tam Jardine
Double standards Tam. Its what they do.
As for Carmichael’s response and the fallout from this travesty? Time will tell, but I’d hope folk don’t take this lying down come May.
Anyone with a modicum of self-respect must instantly see today’s court decision as a complete breakdown of the trust relationship that must exist between politicians and the public before democracy can work at all.
So until I can be sure that, by voting, I am not unwittingly endorsing a court-sanctioned political liar, I am suspending my 40-year-long support/membership of the SNP (or any other party) from this moment onwards.
I wish you all well in your pursuit of Scottish independence through current “law abiding” channels, but I can no longer convince myself that it is either a viable or realistic strategy.
My view now is that unless we find the same courage being shown by the Catalonians (who recently told their political “masters” where to stuff their “laws”) then Scottish independence can never be achieved.
I know that view will not find broad support here and so, since I have no desire to upset anyone, nor any particular liking for being dismissed as “crazy” or “a nutter”, I intend to stop posting on Wings.
But don’t be surprised if one day you find yourself adopting a similar “crazy” view.
It might be a lot sooner than you think.
If there was any proof needed that the union is broken, the Alistair Carmichael case trumpets it from the roof tops.
The only way Scotland can save herself is to consign this corrupt union to the dust bin of history, starting with May 2016 SNP x 2.
Alair Carbuncle just on radio 4 claiming “Highly politically motivated campaign” against him
Seems to me this is the best description from now on for the daily anti-Scottish propaganda exposed of this site and others from so-called journalists in the State and Corporate Media
Tomorrows front page of the National—— Wham bam.
Now we are coming out fighting.
Can’t link with the tablet I am using.
Here you go Bob. 😉
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/674704533910614016/photo/1
Nice to see the National is being rather *ahem* with their front pages these days. 😀
@David McDowell,
Fair enough,but will you still use your vote when it really matters ?
Och, he will start a charity in his name just like the Blairs & Browns.
So proud of the Orkney 4.
Just put in our fifth amount to the cause.
Will be happy to contribute again if necessary.
In fact, the wife and I are thinking about another wee contribution as our Christmas present to each other!
@Lesley Anne
That National front page tomorrow will one day be famous. It’s worth saving so get your copy tomorrow before they run out.
Well done Rev, take it they had your permission 🙂
The Syria vote last week, really depressed me, and this event sickens me, but I can sort of understand we are let down by an ancient law that needs changed.
I have contributed about 5 times because the issue is so fundamental, regardless of the area or party. I’ve been warmed seeing the crowd fund ticking up, with amazing 3figure sums being donated. It matters to a great deal of people.
I’m also so impressed by the commitment and dignity of the Orkney 4.
Kudos to the National for their front page, it’s a cracker.
Aye. I was just saying that to my partner when I saw it Thepnr. 😉
Looks like that artwork on the national front page is by Stewart Bremner. It is very striking.
Did anyone see if the bbc gave airtime to the Orkney4 when they made their statement on Kirkwall. Somehow I doubt it, but I’m sure Carmichael was given loads of time to sermonise.
Oh I wonder how the church will react to his lies and bad conduct after all he is an elder, is he not?
Article on today’s proceedings by Fiona Grahame…
https://fionamoraggrahame.wordpress.com/2015/12/09/a-fragile-democracy-consequences-of-the-carmichael-case/
Proven Liar.
Bob Mack at 10:29am
I now regard the electoral system itself as an immoral construct, one whose only purpose is to fool us into believing we have some control over our lives when, in fact, we have none. Today’s court decision finally shattered any remaining trust I had in our political and legal systems. It was, if you like, the final straw for me.
What this case has proven beyond any doubt is that our electoral system is broken. It operates devoid of any moral or ethical restriction whatsoever. Consider this: A politician can blatantly lie to his electorate yet face no legal or moral consequences for it whatsoever. Nothing! Such a system is inarguably immoral and irredeemably corrupted. And given these conditions, the only rational choice is to boycott the system entirely.
I choose not to participate in a system that requires me to be so stupid that I would knowingly consent to being lied to by people who themselves know they face no legal consequences whatsoever if they are caught. Just think about that for a moment.
Until a law is passed making it illegal for any politician to tell ANY sort of lie about themselves to their electorate – “political” or “personal” – I won’t be voting again. Such a law is the minimum change required to inject the missing element of moral responsibility into our electoral system.
Please resist the temptation to trot out the usual mindless mantra: “Oh, if you don’t vote you have no right to complain about what happens.” I have just explained: I don’t believe voting makes any difference to what happens to us. There is no point in complaining about it.
So, after long and careful consideration (detailed study of every aspect of this court trial during the last six months), I have come to the following conclusion:
As things currently stand, to vote is to indulge in an irrational delusion that one possesses a degree of influence over life that in reality, one does not possess. Put simply, under the current system, voting is a colossal waste of time.
Thanks everyone for the support here – It is very moving to read, especially on a day like this. We won’t know about final costs until there has been a ruling from the Court and they have significant leeway – we may have to pay everything, just ours or a proportion of his, its up to the judges.
@David McDowell,
Thing is David ,I respect your view but I am not fighting to change things for myself. I am getting on a bit. I think my energy comes from wanting something different for my grandchildren and their children ,rather than the crap our, and previous generations have had to endure at the hands of Westminster.
It helped me to be able to fight for something greater than myself ,but we are all different.
Bob Mack at 12:00am
As you may have guessed, I am “getting on” a bit too.
You clearly understand I am not trying to convince anyone to do what I am doing. Others must make their own decisions.
I’ve simply put forward my own view, formed after 40 years of continuous voting. It is this:
Our electoral system is so corrupt, so beyond redemption, that to leave something in place for your grandchildren, and for their children, we’re going to have to demolish the whole system and rebuild it from scratch. Sometimes you can’t fix something, you have to level it and start again.
Thus, my “conversion” if you will, to the “radical” Catalonian approach, which has been to say, courageously: “We refuse to comply with your laws. We don’t recognise your system.”
Of course, this is too “radical” for many Scots, especially those who believe the current strategy is working. They rightly point out the many genuine differences between Catalonia’s independence struggle and our own.
But after forty years of watching the SNP’s piecemeal, “death by a thousand cuts” approach fail to deliver the big prize, I now believe it simply isn’t working. In fact, on today’s evidence, I am convinced it will never work.
Until today, I too believed that “death by a thousand cuts” was the only way.
But for me this utterly contemptuous legal decision exposes the true depths of immorality and corruption we are up against.
After 40 years of patient, dutiful voting, reality is growling in my face: independence is not something we will ever be given; it is something we will have to take.
Incompetent as well as a liar.
David McDowell – I feel your anger and disappointment David and feel exactly the same myself. However, I don’t agree that “giving up” (if you’ll excuse the term) is the answer. Throughout history the elite and establishments have worked hard to keep the people, by whatever they choose to define themselves (feminists, coloured, liberals, nations), down. Some of these groups have taken hundreds of years to achieve any amount of equality and justice, but achieve it they did! This decision has distressed me more than losing the referendum as I have always had to believe that justice will overcome self interest some time – absolutely devastated by the filth of the Westminster system which has destroyed the lives of so many people for such a long time. Like you I am getting on in years and may not live to see justice and freedom for Scotland but I will not give up until I fall off my perch.
I’m curious to know-
At the westminster Parliament it is not usually permitted to call someone a liar. It’s unparliamentary language and very frowned upon.
But are you allowed to if the person has officially been judged to be a liar in a court?
Just for a special treat?
@Laverock
I believe the correct Parliamentary procedure, following the Guidelines for MP’s laid down in the “Obvious to Every Decent Person’ Handbook is to refer to them forthwith as:
The Dishonourable Member for …
and in the case of a Member of the Privy Council:
The Right Dishonourable Member for …
David Clegg at the Record is a nasty wee unionist from N Eire. That’s why The Record don’t care about facts.
That’s why he has a season ticket to Scotland 2015 and Shareen.
Carmichael’s poultry crowdfunding, speaks volumes about how the majority in Scotland feel about the odious man. Not once did Gary Robertson point out that he was the Scottish cabinet secretary when he lied. He was not a joe blogs MP. He was supposed to represent the whole of Scotland and he lied while in that postion and must resign.
Don’t you just feel it in the air?
Independence is coming and they cannot stop it.
And the really funny thing is that the Unionists are doing all the work.
I wonder which SNP MP will stand up and say;
“As the Honorable Liar for Orkney said last year…”
It almost must happen
Bill McLean at 9.28pm
You do me an enormous disservice with that mischaracterisation.
Advocating an active campaign of non-compliance is hardly “giving up”. Quite the opposite.
Do me the courtesy of taking the time to properly read and understand what I’ve written.
How many politicians have the word LIAR hidden withi both their names – sometimes with the letters jumbled to try to hide the fact?
I give you aLIstAiR caRmIchAeL
I just read somewhere about that nice Mr Carmichael starting a new appeal.
You’d think that, if he had the support of the LibDems, they’d back him. If he didn’t, they’d evict him. Do one or the other please folks. It’s your party’s reputation on the line.
Any time the odious Carbuncle opens his lying mouth in HoC he should immediately be followed by an SNP MP saying “how are we to trust the veracity in anything he says given that, in the eyes of the election court (as well as by his own, eventual, admission) a proven LIAR?”
The rules don’t apply to Alistair.
My take is that seeing as someone else did the fundraising, and the money goes straight to the lawyers, Carmichael will say it wasn’t given to him hence no need to declare it.