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Wings Over Scotland

Movers and shakers

Posted on October 04, 2019 by

So we’ve done a new poll, and this one’s a little different than usual. The sample was 1007 Scottish voters who said they would vote SNP with their constituency vote at the next Holyrood election.

Which makes these findings pretty interesting.

The fact that 10% of SNP voters would either vote No in a new indyref or aren’t sure isn’t the surprising part – in fact those numbers are unusually low for that question. Historically around 15-20% of SNP voters have been opposed to independence. While that seems mad, they simply feel that the party are the best option for running the Scottish Government and are willing to gamble that independence won’t happen.

The curious part is the significant proportion of the sample – 15% – that voted No in 2014 but supports the SNP now, but of which only two-thirds has also come over to Yes. At a time when Scottish politics is supposedly completely polarised around the constitution, and when cracks are beginning to show in the party’s domestic record (under, it should be said, very difficult circumstances) and the First Minister’s personal approval ratings struggle to register a net positive, significant numbers of people still appear to be switching to them, yet are unconvinced about independence, yet the party’s voters as a whole are becoming MORE strongly pro-indy rather than less.

And if you think THAT’S confusing, folks, wait till you see the rest of the poll.

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    1. 04 10 19 14:56

      Movers and shakers | speymouth

    380 to “Movers and shakers”

    1. Neil Mackenzie says:

      You’re a right little Lord Ashcroft, aren’t you!

    2. Johnny says:

      Are all the polling questions just of SNP voters/members or was that just another focus of the polling on this occasion?

    3. dadsarmy says:

      that voted No in 2014 but supports the SNP now, but of which only two-thirds has also come over to Yes

      Small sample – 145 – margin of error 8%. It’s interesting but not too dignificant.

    4. Jules says:

      That curious bunch are surely remainers who’ve been won over by the SNP’s clear anti Brexit stance, if not (yet) by indy.

    5. Johnny says:

      I feel quite sure that’s not how sampling works. It’s an attempt at a representation of the WHOLE population (or in this case, SNP voters) and therefore it has a margin of error of 3% as the sample is 1007.

    6. Capella says:

      So people who are not entirely convinced about independence are voting SNP because they run Scotland better. Makes sense. Which would you rather have running your country?

    7. dadsarmy says:

      That’s actually very promising, as instead of 14% of SNP voters voting NO according to Ashcroft, we’re now looking at maybe just 5%.

      And that’s surprising, as supposedly 35% of SNP voters voted Leave. But I daresay there’s more questions …

    8. Themadmurph says:

      @Neil Mackenzie

      I’d take that as an insult! 🙂

    9. Dr Jim says:

      Plenty of folk vote SNP who wouldn’t vote for Independence
      just for the governance because they’re not blind

    10. raineach says:

      surely there are voters who voted snp in 2011, fully intended to vote no, voted no but continue to vote snp. that would explain part of that

    11. Fergus Green says:

      Ach Stuart. You’re a tease, drip feeding us information like that. However, this is movement in the right direction and it’s looking braw.

    12. Patrick Roden says:


      “That’s actually very promising, as instead of 14% of SNP voters voting NO according to Ashcroft, we’re now looking at maybe just 5% “

      What we might be seeing is that those who are No voters but vote SNP, will be far less likely to be susceptible to the constant anti-SNP bias from the MSM. (or they wouldn’t vote SNP)

      In fact, it is these voters who can see that the SNP are doing a decent job and yet seeing the lies and spin from Westminster / MSM, who are going to be some of the first to switch to Yes as they know that Westminster can’t be relied on to tell them the truth.

      SNP No voters are a large portion of the electorate, so if they are indeed switching in anything like these numbers it is another indicator that it is ‘going our way’

    13. John Thomson says:

      I say tease away

    14. Marcia says:

      I have waited long enough. Rest of the poll please.

    15. Terry callachan says:

      So 90% of those polled will vote SNP and independence sensible folk

      5% don’t know, I think they might be people who were previously labour and are thinking about independence but are not quite sure they want to say so

      5% YES to SNP but NO to independence is strange there must be something in particular that they do not like about independence or that they do like about SNP

      As wings says it could be that they simply don’t want independence but vote for SNP because they think SNP do a good job of governing but I don’t think it’s that I just don’t think people are NOT tribal when it comes to voting .
      I cannot see someone thinking in this way at such a massively important time in Scotland’s history surely if they are against Scottish independence they simply would not vote SNP for any reason at all , I mean that’s what all the unionists do isn’t it they will do tactical voting shifting from labour to Tory to Lib Dem just to stop the SNP so why would this 5% vote for and strengthen SNP if they don’t want independence it just doesn’t ring true.I think it’s something else.

      for example a couple where one is british and votes for SNP and independence but the partner is not british and votes for SNP to keep their other half happy but doesn’t trust an independent Scotland to allow them to continue living in Scotland as much as they have trusted the UK that has allowed them to come here get british citizenship and possibly a British passport.

      Or maybe a couple where one is Scottish and one is English and the Scottish one votes for SNP and independence but the other although happy to vote the same as their partner for SNP to govern , doesn’t want to vote for Scottish independence because they would no longer feel that their home country of England would be able to influence their situation as strongly as it does at present?

    16. Terry callachan says:

      Excited about the Scottish independence march in Edinburgh tomorrow I see its leaving from Holyrood park at 1pm, fantastic.

      Last March I went to was in Glasgow and I was a bit sad that the “YES” bar had closed but it was probably for the best because the bar next door was rowdy.

      Where do people meet up in Edinburgh before and after a March ?

    17. Roger Hyam says:

      It is all about partial pressures. In the vacuum that is waiting for Brexit the electorate are happily bubbling away in all directions.

      Or is it a supersaturated solution about to crystalize out? Currently all the salts are sloshing around but as soon as a seed crystal of actually leaving the EU drops in it will turn solid one way or the other.

      See you all in Edinburgh tomorrow!.

    18. HandandShrimp says:

      I’m not surprised poll results are confusing. The last three years would melt anyone’s brain. I used to enjoy things like QT now if I hear another word about Brexit I think my intestines will leap up and stuff my earholes.

    19. Dr Jim says:

      @HandandShrimp 2:46pm

      They can’t hang draw and quarter our bodies anymore so they go for our !! Braains !!

      The BBC Zombie Bastirts

    20. HandandShrimp says:

      Dr Jim

      Bastirts that they are indeed. 🙂

    21. Breeks says:

      Jules says:
      4 October, 2019 at 1:32 pm
      That curious bunch are surely remainers who’ve been won over by the SNP’s clear anti Brexit stance, if not (yet) by indy.

      That’s one way of looking at it.

      Another way to look at it is people ‘not’ being attracted to the SNP’s Anti-Brexit stance at all, but sickened and repelled by the Pro-Brexit insanity running unchecked down South. Just imagine where we might be if the SNP was actually trying, and had spent months arguing resolutely for a legal and sound Scottish Constitutional Backstop…

    22. dadsarmy says:

      This is totally hilarious, the UK Gov QC (Webster) seems to be totally hacking off the judge Lord Pentland. Here’s the latest:

      Webster: “we seem to be going round in circles here.”
      Lord Pentland: “That’s because I raised it again.”


    23. Ken500 says:

      Support for the SNP and Independence rising. Just as predicted, due to demographic changes.

    24. Ken500 says:

      Everyone is sick of Brexit. Totally. It will not happen. The Tories into oblivion. If it does or doesn’t. What a bunch of losers. Fools. The world laughing stock. Dangerous imbeciles. Not a clue among them. Useless tools.

    25. dadsarmy says:

      Scots Law seems to be standing up for itself, at last.

    26. Ex Pat says:

      Bozo’s game – Blighty vs the Hun – Except we’re not supposed to see through it – Oh Dog !

      Philippe Lamberts of the European Green Party –

      “He wants to have his Battle of Britain moment. And for that you need an aggressor and he has to find one and that’s the European Union. And a very difficult moment; a moment of national survival; and that would be No Deal Brexit. And he would promise the country Blood, Sweat and Tears and say that we will come out a greater nation. And you can already hear that in everything he’s saying.”

      “And so he needs to deliver that, _but_ there’s one important caveat. He must not be seen as having engineered this.” (ER, Oops then !?)

      – Philippe Lamberts – EU Green party – on BBC – via twitter –

      Classic Dom – ‘cunning plan’ FAIL. Yet again !! If your ‘cunning plan’ always relies on not having anybody with a brain on the other side are you a genius, or a moron ??

      – found via Brigid Laffan – Supreme (non-UK Muppet Stream Media) Brexit info source : ) – Twitter –

    27. Lenny Hartley says:

      Terry Callachan, i know an SNP member never mind voter who does not want and will never vote for Independence.
      i thought he had lapsed his membership but he told me recently he was still a member.

    28. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lenny Hartley –

      I appreciate you probably can’t go into that much detail, but this non-indy SNP member you mentioned – is he of sound mind? Are we talking about someone in a profession? Has he ever explained his reasoning?

    29. galamcennalath says:

      There are probably still folks around who cling to the ideas of more devolution, full fiscal autonomy, DevoMax, Home Rule, whatever … but still remaining inside the UK ‘umbrella’. Poor misguided gullible souls, IMO, but they will still be out there in the mix.

    30. mr thms says:

      Presumably EU citizens who normally vote SNP would have voted No in the Scottish Referendum in response to Barrosso’s claim that an independent Scotland would need to apply to join the EU under Article 49?

      Now that the UK is leaving the EU, EU citizens who normally vote SNP are more likely to vote Yes in a second Scottish Referendum.

    31. robertknight says:

      Some SNP members/voters may simply be ardent anti-Tory where their politics are concerned. Therefore, if you have a strong dislike of Tory politics, see SLabber as the busted flush it is, and regard the Fib-Dems as having more faces than a deck of cards, then the SNP is your natural choice. The enemy of my enemy… etc.

    32. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Lenny Hartley @ 15:49,

      Hmmm. I can understand a non-believer voting SNP for good governance, as others have already mentioned. But a member? Most peculiar. Maybe he’s there so he can write letters to The National truthfully saying “I’m a member of the SNP but [I’ll always vote Leave]” [or whatever]. Y’know, the rare people that BBC Scotland seem to find so amazingly readily.

      Or there just to keep track of what the party is up to…?

    33. Alibi says:

      That 69% of former No voters (148 of them) who would now vote Yes is interesting. Those figures suggest to me that there is about a 10% swing from No to Yes (basically 148/1007 x 0.69 = 0.1014, i.e. 10%). I assume there must be a corresponding figure of former Yes voters who are now No voters, but I’m not sure if you can establish that from those figures although the 2% in the table suggests it’s not very many unless I’m misunderstanding it.

      I assume that the next tranche of infor will clarify where we are no in terms of indy support – I’m guessing 56%, which as you all know is a massive majority (every yoon: ipse dixit)

    34. dadsarmy says:

      UK PM Boris Johnson will send a letter to the EU asking for a #Brexit delay if no deal is agreed by 19 October, according to government papers submitted to a Scottish court

      Fuck you you ignorant bastards “a Scottish Court” you ignorant BBC tossers. It’s the COURT OF SESSION.

      Fuck off BBC you provincial ignorant pricks.

    35. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 16:09,

      This is the Curse of Mitigation. As long as these people think the SG will protect them from the worst of London incompetence and malfeasance, they’ll stay passively content. Yet if the SG ever let them feel the cauld blast of reality, the cynical BritNat opposition would fake howl and accuse it of uselessness.

      It’s a thankless job, being in politics.

      Which is why, until now at least, the SG has been right to let London get full media exposure for its increasingly-wilful lunacy. And maybe only the tangible imminence of Brexit will finally unlock the delusionists.

      An abrupt change of tack then very necessary.

    36. Dr Jim says:

      There are still misconceptions over what some people think they’re voting for if they vote for Independence
      They might think for example Independence means you’ve got the SNP for life whether you want them or not, which is nonsense but that’s one line I’ve heard used against the idea of Independence often

      It seems no matter how many people you tell differently that SNP policy is post Independence there’ll be elections to decide what folk want to vote for, they don’t believe it, and that’s down to their own mistrust of politics in general that they’re prepared to vote for a bad thing knowing full well there are other options available but they don’t trust anything

      Or the many potential voters who don’t believe in voting at all because it all makes no difference, those are the problem people because they believe they have no hope and don’t want or expect to have any hope anyway, they’re the *what’s the point nothing will ever change* people, I’ve met a few of those, one at a hope over fear rally in George Square no less and he still insisted he would like to vote SNP but there’s no point it’s all too late because Scotland’s too poor now and Indpendence should’ve happened when Scotland had all the coal and oil and shipbuilding and Alex Salmond didnae dae sumthin, *they* should’ve done sumthin then*

      “Did you vote”? Nuh nae point!

      What can you do with folk like this who don’t know anything and don’t want to know at the same time, and there are thousands of them out there leaving their responsibilities to the rest of us then complaining about the outcome if it’s not their kind of perfect, yet they still refuse to take part

    37. Lenny Hartley says:

      Re none indy supporting SNP Member, he is of sound mind, and moans about the SNP putting his tax up . He is retired so cant be daft if his various pensions take him into the high tax rate.
      He was born and raised in England and worked most of his days in England. He votes and became a member of the SNP due to the good goverence in office of the SNP, particuarly likes John Swinney.

    38. Clearly the motivation for the BBC in trying to misrepresent the SNP’s record in government is aimed at undermining their reputation for competence so as to narrow their voting base to just pro-SNP yessers.

      The BBC never explains that the record they are attacking is way better than the equivalent stats in England and Wales in NHS, Policing, Fire Service, 4 levels of education, social care, mental health etc etc

      The SNP needs these no voters to get it into government as a significant number of yes voters still vote Labour or Lib Dem in ordinary elections

      One wonders how voting would pan out without the drip drip drip of the BBC

    39. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dr Jim @ 17:01,

      Yes, it’s an attitude found everywhere but especially true of a certain type in Scotland. The challenge is to give these people enough hope to be willing to get up off their sorry arses for once and vote. Quite a challenge.

      But it’s exactly this constituency (though mainly in England) that the likes of Farage and Bojo have been assiduously targeting. The lumpen mass who were activated by the EURef and came out to vote for the first time ever. The kind of people who now have to be appeased relentlessly over Brexit to keep them engaged and keep their masters in power. Hence all this guff about “the people have spoken and must be obeyed”.

      We could do with an honourable equivalent ourselves. But helping the hopeless help themselves isn’t an easy task. Has to be attempted by a strong lead, though.

    40. manandboy says:


      Never under-estimate the power, effect and the long-term, deeply rooted influence, of British Nationalist propaganda, also known as brainwashing or indoctrination. Not least on the population of Scotland, the only country, AFAIK, who has ever rejected independence from ‘The British Empire’, to the disbelief of the entire world.

      And never underestimate the capability of any given individual, to be their own worst enemy.

      Further, never assume that propaganda is only swallowed by the under-educated or those with a low IQ. The professional classes and the business community are NOT going to win Scotland its independence.

      It is worth remembering, that Brexit is primarily England’s business. It will be resolved in whatever way, by the English, all 50 million of them. The rest of the UK are virtually spectators, watching an England v England game. Being still ongoing, we are forced to wait for the score at the final whistle. It won’t be known beforehand.
      Predicting the outcome has become an obsession for many, but in truth, no one yet knows what the final outcome will be, nor what will happen afterwards. But England is deeply divided, which does not bode well for the future, no matter the final result. The worst may very well be yet to come.

      What is left for us in Scotland, who yearn to recover our status as a Sovereign independent country?

    41. manandboy says:

      Don’t give up.

    42. Andy smith says:

      Terry Callachan @2:38
      I believe there’s a post march shindig at Leith depot which is down the bottom of Leith walk, the surrounding pubs also hosted fundraising events on run up to 2014 ref.

    43. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Now, why would I possibly anticipate that one of the upcoming poll results will be about how the same set of SNP voters might respond to various possibilities with their list vote…? =grin=

    44. EricS says:

      That 15% in “The curious part is the significant proportion of the sample – 15% – that voted No in 2014 but supports the SNP now, but of which only two-thirds has also come over to Yes”. All the poll says is that they voted No in 2014, will vote SNP now on constituency, but nowhere does it say they didn’t vote SNP previously.

    45. Colin Alexander says:

      “Plenty of folk vote SNP who wouldn’t vote for Independence
      just for the governance because they’re not blind”.


      The SNP are the best Empire administrators for the UK state.

      Saving the British from Boris and Brexit


      Delivering the YES movement into the control of the Evil Empire with another rigged indyref.

      SNP: Bending the knee. What’s not to like if your want a well run colony?

    46. dadsarmy says:

      Okey-doke. I’ve checked around a bit, and agree with some opinion that BJ is desperate to avoid being blamed for NOT exiting the EU on 31st October. That would explain no 10 making statements today of all days, that O’Neill was able to use in court.

      So basically BJ wants to lose the CoS case, plus probably the #noboff one too. He wants to be forced to do the extension and blame the Courts. That sets him up for the election.

      Which means, it seems to me, to be very unlikely Brexit will happen on the 31st Oct, there will be an extension. But don’t put your life savings on it, as BJ would say “It’s not my fault”.

    47. dadsarmy says:

      And a thread in from the Grun Sevvy guy:

    48. crazycat says:

      @ dadsarmy at 6.26

      I agree with your assessment entirely, but there’s quite a difference between dying in a ditch and “it wisnae me”!

      It will be interesting to see if he gets away with that, and if so, how.

    49. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 18:16,

      Try reading (and understanding) my prior posting @ 16:47, which identifies precisely the kind of response that you ever-predictably exemplify.

      However, I doubt you could ever let pass the chance of a cheap jibe at the SNP, Wormtongue.

    50. Doug says:

      I think I’m right [apologies if I’m wrong] in saying there was a sharp increase in SNP membership immediately after SNP MPs walked out of Commons a few months ago.

      Are people waiting, as patiently as possible, for the SNP and Scottish government to do something similar and with greater effect?

      I wonder if the people would get behind the SG and SNP in an even greater way if the SG loudly telt the USA military that Prestwick airport was a no-go area for whisky-tariff-numpty-Trumpties.

    51. sassenach says:

      Poor old Coco, getting ever more desperate.

    52. Ghillie says:

      So. All moving in the right direction =)

      I am becoming increasingly heartened by the number of folk I have recently asked gently, would they now consider voting for Scotland’s Independence 🙂

      AND! I am so looking forward to tomorrow’s march in Edinburgh!

      Hope to meet up again with old friends and new 🙂

    53. Doug says:

      Good luck to all in tomorrow’s march.

    54. bobajock says:

      Those from 2014 – it was before the EURef they made a choice.

      I kindof dont like polls unless there is a campaign afoot where you can ask about ‘A doing X’ ‘B doing Y’ and for the LibDems – ‘C doing SFA’.

      On that note though, I know so many former No’s that are pro-indy – specifically cos of said shitshow down south & EU – all are adamant about it … then I wonder about all polling.

    55. Terry callachan says:

      Lenny Hartley…that snp member you know
      Any idea why he will never vote for Indy ?
      Its baffling really

    56. Terry callachan says:

      Andy Smith..,thanks for that info

    57. Sarah says:

      Re BBC’s influence on public opinion: is there any way of blocking their transmissions?

    58. defo says:

      Try the ‘off’ button Sarah, it works fine for me 🙂

    59. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      What we need is a Scottish OFCOM, that is not beholden to the Westminster establishment.

      We’re not gonna get that until hell freezes over, or Scotland achieves independence.

    60. Lenny Hartley says:

      Terry callachan , i would say he will never vote for Indy. But hey ho, its a broad church 🙂 🙂 🙂
      Whilst im on, hope every body has a great March, not gonna make it, logistical issues and my knees (and a foot) are knackered. Took me ages to get pain free from the Ayr March so aint gonna go.
      The strange thing is that with the help of pain killers im relatively ok walking the dug on the beach, but walking on hard surfaces results in several days pain before it calms down.

    61. Anybody wanting an entertaining programme – have a listen in to Any Questions BBC R4
      8.00 pm this evening and 1.00 pm tomorrow.

      Nigel Farage getting his posterior handed to him on a plate, Tory Minister likewise by Jeanette Winterston??

      Definitely worth catching.

    62. Gary says:

      I kinda get this. It means that despite what the TV and print news is telling us that, in general, people trust the SNP to govern us AND people are seeing that Independence is the way forward for Scotland.

      We have been told the EXACT OPPOSITE by TV and print news, usually at the behest of unionist parties, for so many years that we are hard pressed to disbelieve them. But people are, gradually, coming to their own realisations as we have seen in recent polls showing over 50% for YES. I remember back in 2012 when the campaigning was starting for the referendum and, if memory serves, support for Indy was about 22% A good and decent campaign by YES and a dirty, lying campaign by NO saw the result bring support up to 45% on the day. Imagine having a STARTING POINT of nearly 50%??

      We are running out of democracy with which we can demand our say, however. Our response must be to bring support to such a level it actually becomes EMBARRASSING to Westminster to keep us hostage…

    63. aldo_macb says:

      By my calculations from the above table, Yes has gone from 84% of SNP voters in 2014 up to 90% now.

    64. Iain mhor says:

      Good, data is good. i don’t have a problem at all with the poll. Nor is it any particular surprise to me.
      I do look forward to the rest of the poll.
      Just a wee reminder, that SNP Supporters/voters were in the minority of YES votes in 2014 (yup, true, check yersel)

      I expect to see an overall increase in “don’t know” (undecideds across political spectrum) mirroring the plethora of recent English polls.
      I have my own reasons, but +13% “Undecided” is a very good thing.

    65. Heart of Galloway says:

      Dad’s army @3.45pm.

      Indeed so. Scotland’s highest court has already effectively ruled that Johnson is a duplicitious liar as to his motives for proroguing the UK parliament.

      Now the people of Scotland are hearing that their own Court of Session has POWER to fine or even incarcerate Johnson should he disobey the law.

      Suddenly, we’re not moaning or wailing “it’s no’s fair” – we are calling the shots and making the UK Gov squirm before the eyes of the world and ugly, arrogant, English exceptionalism is being laid bare in all its rancid glory.

      UK Gov lawyer Andrew Webster tells Lord Pentland “it’s clear” his imperial master, if necessary, of course, naturally, without question, how dare anybody suggest otherwise, WILL write to the EU to ask for an extension because a letter presented to the court says he will.

      “Fine and dandy”, says LP, “then ye’ll no’ mind sweirin’ under oath tae the coort that yon blond coof will dae as he telt?

      – “I’m sorry?

      “Ye see son, this coort jeest last week jaloused yer client was a lyin’ wee bastirt. So how should we trust him noo?”

      – “I think that’s a tad unfair.

      “Oh dae ye indeed? Weel, it’s exactly because he’s a fly man that the petitioners here afore ye want tae mak siccar. So, if ye dinnae mind, pit yer han’ on the guid buik and sweir yer boss will comply.

      – “If I may, the letter from her Majesty’s Government says he will.

      – “Dae ye think we’re no wyce? Pit yer han’ on the bible an sweir he’ll fire aff that letter.

      – “No. It’s not necessary. The Prime Minister’s word is his bond.” (Loud laughter erupts in the chamber.)

      – “Silence in coort!”

      The upshot o’ aa this?

      Given that since 2012 the UK nationalists and their MSM lackeys have done all in their power to undermine Scottish self-confidence and self-belief (and succeeded just enough in that objective in IndyRef1)these legal machinations are their worst nightmare.

      Why? Because the notion that Scotland is subservient and inferior – a notion the British nationalists seek to preserve at all costs – is being undermined.

      For “nobody is above the law” read “we are the people and we say yes.” (c. Canon Kenyon Wright).

      Can’t wait to hear Joanna Cherry the morn. (Fine weather forecast BTW).

    66. heraldnomore says:

      I did that poll, but I ain’t telling what else he asked. But it’s going to be an interesting few days…

    67. call me dave says:

      Scottish Court Case first BBC Radio 4 item and short discussion.

      Speculation on Radio 4 that Boris’ options are narrowing and that court papers submitted today in Edinburgh promising to send that letter shows his position is weak. But Boris still intends to leave without a deal.

      Pundits proffer that Boris may be relying on one EU member country using their veto to ensure an extension cannot be offered.

      (Maybe Hungary)(see WoS twitter from earlier news this afternoon)

      Also Cummings says tonight if EU won’t agree the UK proposal by end next week the UK will leave on 31st Oct.

    68. Bobp says:

      C’mon Scotland, send a message so big from Edinburgh tomorrow, that will deafen those bastirts in Westminster , and those BBC scum can’t sweep under the carpet.

    69. galamcennalath says:

      It’s become news today because of the CoS case, but this weird situation has been on the go all week, or longer.

      On the one side experts (inc Cherry) say the Benn Act is watertight and a letter must be sent in the event of no-deal.

      On the other, Johnson and all his chums keep saying no-deal means leaving on Hallowe’en.

      To further confuse, the WM gov lodged papers today saying a letter will be sent. But simultaneously keep saying they will leave.

      Somebody’s wrong somewhere, or someone’s lying and has devious plans in mind.

      Perhaps it’s simply Johnson manoeuvring into a position where he can claim ‘the baddies’ all ganged up in him to stop his glorious Brexit – then he can go into a general election on a hard ticket. That would mean everything he is doing right now is all a charade. There is no intention of getting a withdrawal agreement. It’s all just setting the scene for an election.

      A hard ticket might neutralise the Brexit Party. In the polls the combined far right vote is 40+%. If that can be all channeled to the Tories, it’s a landslide.

      The same situation would mean an SNP landslide too. Nicola better have a clear plan for what she does if this plays out – SNP big win in Scorland, Tory hard Brexit big win in England.

    70. Golfnut says:

      @ Heart of Galloway.

      Well said, and this is just the start. Unfortunately for Boris, whatever his smartass schemes are for thwarting Parliament and ignore the COS, conspiring with foreign governments to undermine and bypass statute goes way past contempt of court. Whatever happens, the cat’s out of the bag, no way back now.

    71. Bob Mack says:

      The government confifmed a letter would be sent. Theh did not specify however what would be in the letter.

      Words mean something

    72. mike cassidy says:

      How the BBC reported a young conservative death.

      How the local paper did.

      Then this. Very disturbing.

    73. dadsarmy says:

      @Bob Mack
      The exact letter BoJo must send is laid down in the Act itself.

    74. galamcennalath says:

      Bob Mack says

      The government confifmed a letter would be sent. Theh did not specify however what would be in the letter.

      My understanding is the Benn Act includes draft wording for the letter. Little wriggle room.

      One of two things is going on, either …

      – Johnson has some plan to thwart the extension and he delivers Brexit

      – he wants others to be seen to thwart his plans, a blame game, positioning for a GE

      … IMO there’s a plan, could be either outcome though

    75. Dr Jim says:

      @Colin Alexander

      Taking bits of what people post then quoting them out of context to fit your personal agenda is a shit thing to do

      which makes you a shit

    76. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Heart of Galloway @ 21:48:

      Suddenly, we’re not moaning or wailing “it’s no’s fair” – we are calling the shots and making the UK Gov squirm before the eyes of the world…

      Yes, more of that please! Telling not petitioning.

      BoJo’s mixed-messaging of today might be nicely fogging the situation for the Leaver faithful, as intended, but from a legal perspective I suspect that their Lordships of the CoS might take a dim view indeed. We shall see.

      But that seems to be the plan now: alibi-building for the eventual election: “we wiz robbed, so unleash us to get the job done”.

    77. Terry callachan says:

      Remember B Johnston has already had a court say he broke the law but think about what actually happened.
      He shut parliament for several weeks
      The Supreme Court then said that was unlawful
      The parliament then opened
      But his job was done
      The aim was to shut parliament
      He did exactly that
      And afterwards the Supreme Court when they got round to doing it
      Said he was wrong to do it
      But you can’t turn the clock back

      He can do the same with this extension request
      Say he’s going to do it
      Pretend he’s done it
      Tick tick tick tick goes the clock
      Then we find he hasn’t done it
      Brexit happens
      Supreme Court all over again
      Who say he shouldn’t have done that
      Too late
      Can’t turn the clock back

    78. Terry callachan says:

      Heraldnomore….oh go on , go on tell uz

    79. Terry callachan says:

      Lenny Hartley…will raise a hand in the air and sing a song for you on the march so you will be there in heart and soul if not in person

    80. Terry callachan says:

      Brian doonthetoon …

      It will be amazing what comes out the woodwork once we are independent
      I think we will find a lot of detail about the underhand actions of unionism , comes to light once they are no longer in a position to coerce the people of Scotland

    81. Bill Hume. says:

      I am currently charging the camera battery and will see you all in Edinburgh tomorrow.
      Have a good day.

    82. galamcennalath says:

      “A Brexit extension could be just what Boris Johnson wants “

      If he can’t get his crash out on Hallowe’en, being forced to delay by ‘wicked remainers’ is his next best option, perhaps.

    83. Liz g says:

      Aren’t we all assuming Johnson doesn’t want to be hauled into court …. even jailed…. For his Brexit?
      It’s not as if he would be in mainstream Jail,or in for very long but he would be able to portray himself as the Hero he imagines himself to be???
      Does anyone know if this would prevent him becoming Prime Minister at the upcoming election?

    84. Colin Alexander says:

      Dr Jim

      I freely admit the SNP are probably the best colonial administrators the British Empire has ever known since Clive of India.

      Let’s all sing up:

      We’re Ruled by Britannia,

      helped by the SNP

      For as long as they keep doing that

      Scotland’ll never be free!

    85. dadsarmy says:

      It’s clear in Scots law that breach of a formal undertaking to the court = breach of a court order, and contempt of court proceedings may follow: so if PM gives undertaking to Court today that’s the same as an order against him. See case of Beggs in 2005

      Seems thave even without the “frustration” order, BoJo could be locked up if he fails to follow through if you’ll pardon the expression.

      If (as I now expect) the Court orders that the PM not frustrate or thwart the terms of the Benn Act in the terms we have sought then (I believe) the Government is screwed. We will not be able to make good on whatever we might have promised eg Hungary and they will know it.

      It’s possible Mitchell’s post overtakes Maugham’s, as Mitchell is Scots Law, Maugham English Law.

    86. Colin Alexander says:

      Me worried? Bored more like. I saw this article and 0 comments and couldnae even be arsed to make a comment at the time, even though I’d have been top comment.

      It’s getting to the point, this is so convoluted and repetitive about Brexit, Indyref and all the games from boris and the SNP,
      I feel I could leave it for a year and come back and the conversation won’t have moved on.

    87. Colin Alexander says:

      Nite nite. Aw the best for Edinburgh.

      The indy marchers are an inspiration and a great sight to behold. If only the SNP had the same passion.

    88. Jim McIntosh says:

      Boris will send the letter asking for an extension. There’ll then be a GE where he’ll win a huge majority in England by blaming the Scottish courts, and the SNP, for not delivering Brexit, and having cancelling the extension in his manifesto. Game over we’re out of the EU.

    89. Dr Jim says:

      @Colin Alexander

      You’re a piece of cowardly garbage kid
      No side wants something like you

    90. Dr Jim says:

      Donald Trump and his Scotch Whisky tarrif

      Mr Trump says he’s in a trade war with the EU so picks Scotch Whisky and various other products that Scotland makes to slap tariffs on, and you might say ach well that’s trade wars eh except there’s no tariff increase on French Brandy or Italian wine or Spanish Rioja or German Reisling

      Two years ago Mundell was in Peru (they grow barley there)then from there he went to the Jack Daniels people in America on *trade missions*

      Now we’ve got Theresa Boris Mogg Gove in the business of trading Scotland for whatever England and the rich boys who run it wants

      Take a guess what’s next, you probably be right, all of it

      Bastirts and more Bastirts

    91. Dr Jim says:

      BBC reports:

      Thousands are expected to turn up to a march in support of Independence in Edinburgh today, a similar event last year attracted 20.000 people according to official reports

      All of us who were there will remember a tad more than the BBCs massively under reported figure

      Hardly worth turning up for eh, Scotland definitely doesn’t want Independence according to the BBC, y’see this is what we’ve come to expect from the British dictatorship, tell the rest of the British Isles and the world lies while at the same time practically encouraging the Prime Minister to break the law as if it means nothing because well that’s OK what he and England wants is more important than what the country of Scotland wants

      Joanna Cherry will be there and that’s great but we’d get more publicity if the FM showed up, and I think it’s time she put her trainers on and did some arm linking

      No pressure FM but c’mon a little help here eh

    92. Sarah says:

      @Dr Jim: that is shocking. “20,000” indeed. That is nonsense. I was there and didn’t get down to Holyrood until about 4.00, I think, starting from the steps by the castle.

      Anyway, 05.25 here having a bite to eat before getting my lift across to Inverness for the Yes Ross & S bus. I’ll keep my eye open for a sea fishing rod in Edinburgh and hope to say hello to you!

    93. sassenach says:

      Agree with Dr Jim, what a coup it would be if Nicola turned up and walked with us today.

      The BBC couldn’t not report it then.

      Anyway, I’m off to get the train shortly – hoping for a brilliant day.

    94. Al-Stuart says:

      On 3rd May 2007 I voted SNP because Labour were losing the plot.

      Alex Salmond and the SNP pulled off a master-stroke. They ran the country well.

      I have voted SNP ever since (with one exception).

      I was ambivalent about Independence at first. Because of service in uniform, my default to Indy WAS NO. Happy to vote SNP on the basis of good governance of Scotland. But one of the few identified as NO voting SNP supporters in Stuart Campbell’s poll. But there is a caveat with considering…

      For what it is worth, and I hope Stu., has built this into his polling forensics, I was NOT taking a gamble about IndyRef1. I was ambivalent about all politicians and neutral on Indy1

      Here is the basis of what may be a crucial point. When a government runs the country well, I and likely many of my cohort are on a journey to CHANGiNG THEIR VIEW.

      Between 2007 and 2014, I changed my mind from neutral on Indy to wholehearted YES.

      I reckon this odd sample of Indy-NO voting SNPers is a transient group.

      As Phantom Productions brilliantly cover in their “Journey To Yes” series, this psephological blip is possibly a vital dynamic…

      Voters with neutral or NO tendencies moving their position to YES.

      This cohort are hopefully newjoins to the 45% on their way to helping YES reach a regular 60 threshold.

      Am looking forward to where Stuart is taking this thread. Ya big tease ya bam ????

    95. Ken500 says:

      Going en marche to the marchie. Marvellous atmosphere in the most visited Capital in the world.

      Marching to end Westminster Rule. Nothing could be better. What a difference the Scottish (SNP) Gov make. With all the odds stacked against them.

      Make the world a better place. Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Nicola wears two hats. Has to follow a code of conduct. As Head of Gov and SNP. They are separate. Best not to confuse. To keep the unionists guessing.

      What a difference. The 2013 March? in Edinburgh. People in Edinburgh did not even know it was happening. They will today.

      Support for SNP and Independence is rising demographically. .

      An S30 or Johnston goes to prison. Decisions, decisions. What to chose? Both.

      The Tory elected again in Aberdeen CC by sixty votes. STV manipulation. The unionists imposed for privilege. 3 bites at the cherry. Instead of one. Manipulation. FPTP the SNP would have won.

      The Tory total mess. A complete and utter shambles,

      Trade wars just put up prices annoying consumers. 10% of US voters are of Scottish descent. Millions. Enough to sway a US election. Trump lost by 3million. The loser won. D’Hond’t. At less Trump has not started WW3 yet. Only a trade war. There are some compensation and deviations. The whisky can be sold elsewhere. High demand. Everything in moderation.

      MUP now saving lives despite the Whisky association opposition. No longer killing off people. It was only Labour that opposed it and smoking ban. Illegal wars killing and maiming millions. and causing the worse migration crisis in Europe since the 11WW. Costing £Trillions. The Westminster unionist imbeciles and Brexit. It could cause a world recession again. What a bunch of lying imbeciles.

    96. Ken500 says:

      It will be (normally) non voters who decide the Ref. The 25% to 30%. Totally off the polling radar. They usually do not engage politically. Not polled etc at all. They despise politics and politicians with a vengeance. Like many people. Referendums have usually higher turnouts. One question etc.

    97. Robert Louis says:

      Today is the day of the Edinburgh Indy march. starting at Holyrood at 1PM, heading up royal mile and George IV bridge to the meadows.

      I canot make the march, but will either join at George IV bridge or just go straight to the meadows to show support.

      Hope they are successful creating the largest ever saltire, and possibly largest ever flag, in Holyrood park, with folk at 12 midday.

      I do hope, that although Joanna Cherry will be there, this would be perfect timing for the FM to make a show at one of these marches. Perfect timing politically and in terms of gee’ing up the indy supporters. Remember the effect it had when Alex Salmond turned up at these things? I wish Nicola would dump her spooky spads, and nip out the house (she can tell Peter she’s away for a loaf or something), get on the train from Queen street and up to the meadows.

      Time to make a show of support. It really, really is.

      It will be good to hear Joanna Cherry though, as she has been at several indy events I’ve been to.

      Good luck to all those doing the whole march. Have a great day. 🙂

      (I just hope they have some food outlets).

    98. starlaw says:

      AUOB march got good billing on Radio Shortbreads 7am news as did the Queensferry crossing, A Lady bound for Edinburgh last night reported Inverness bus Stn. to be very busy with people heading for the march. Edinburgh airport was also unusually busy between 5 and 6am, don’t know if this was march related. Have a good day every one taking part.

    99. ALANM says:

      Perhaps Nicola Sturgeon will get round to thinking about independence when she’s run out of things to ban and minority groups to promote?

    100. barpe says:


      Do I presume that you are in favour of fracking and smacking wee kids, then?

    101. Ken500 says:

      Some people should shut their stupid mouths. Especially lying, hypocritical Johnston. Trying to destroy other people’s world. To line their pockets with other people’s misery. Trying to destroy the world.

    102. Ken500 says:

      People not able to March can still wave the marchers on and take in the atmosphere. Just take part and walk a shorter distance. Accommodates everyone. Great atmosphere. Great City to enjoy. It does not have to be totally completed to make a grand day of it.

      Rev Stu will be there? Incognito?

    103. Cubby says:

      About to leave for Edinburgh.

      Get yourself to Edinburgh if you want Scottish independence.


    104. heraldnomore says:

      I see that the equivalent event last year attracted 20,000, according to guess who…

      What’s the guessing we’ll get to 25,000 this year? Any other bids?

    105. ALANM says:


      On the contrary, with the legal position now clearly established, I’m looking forward to receiving my compensation payment from the Scottish Government for the hundreds of times I was belted at school during the 1960’s and 70’s.

    106. Breeks says:

      Today’s National can speak for itself. Don’t put words in my mouth.

      I’m marching today for Independence. Whether it’s achieved by referendum or Constitutional Test Case is academic.

      If Brexit goes ahead on 31st, by accident or design, then only Scot’s Law and our Sovereign Constitution can save us. In that respect, the “referendum” bus left a long time ago.

    107. Hamish100 says:

      A civilised society is judged on how it treats minorities.

      Even numpties.

    108. Ken500 says:

      Let’s do it because we can.

      Join in, donate, campaign, inform. Everyone do what they can.

      Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Make the world a better place.

    109. Ken500 says:

      Watch you do not miss your bus. The world passing by. Get on and view the world become a better place. Change the world for the better.

    110. mr thms says:

      ALANM at 7:58 am

      “Perhaps Nicola Sturgeon will get round to thinking about independence when she’s run out of things to ban and minority groups to promote?”

      It’s Parliament.

    111. Lenny Hartley says:

      Terry Callachan cheers mate, say hello to Brian dtt as well.
      Hope every body has a braw day and it stays dry.

    112. Dr Jim says:

      See you in Edinburgh pals, we’ll all be the ones with the Saltires

    113. Hamish100 says:

      Shereen bem? Cbe? on BBC scotchland , the usual pro- unionists including failed MP Tom Harris and Angela Haggerty failed socialist.

      Angela haggerty says the marchers have said there will be up to 100000. Don’t think that is likely she bleats.

      Drudgery and apologists are not a happy mix.

    114. Effijy says:

      You’ll love this one in the Daily Hail.
      Fake Journalist interviewing Jackson Carlaw.

      “I’ve had politicians break down in front of me before
      But none have wept so openly or so helplessly for their constituents”

      FFS. SSNP Bad and Labour Bad and together for Jewish members of his constituency
      And collusion between them is more than triple bad.

      Where were this second and car salesman’s tears for all those desperately seeking foodbanks,
      Where are they for people receiving no benefits for months on end due to Tory Universal discredit
      Where are they for escalating number of suicides due to Tory austerity.

      If that heartless B****** managed a tear he must be taking acting lessons and peeling onions.

      I suspect it yet another fake news story created by a fake journalist for a fake newspaper about a fake politician.

      For Fake sake Scotland wake up and free yourself from these people!

    115. Hamish100 says:


      2/3rd of her panel are brexiters.

      BBC impartiality. 62% of Scotland voted remain

    116. Ken500 says:

      On the way. Great rail service. Could be even better without Westminster imbeciles gross interference. HS2 £100Billion on the way to nowhere. A total waste of money. Rail services in the North lacking essential, necessary funding. The North/South divide. The Westminster unionists imbecile centralist economic policies. A total disgrace, especially for Scotland.

      We are goner, goner be on the way. Festival atmosphere. Put Scotland on the map. World class.

      The Brexit imbeciles trying to destroy the world economy, again. They will not get away with it. Everyone can protest.

    117. Effijy says:

      As some may be aware, I have been supporting the First Minister’s Independence Petition.
      It has been out there for some months and it’s almost at a stop for new signatories?

      She asked for 300,000 signatures demanding our opportunity for Independence.
      Although we now have 288,167 signatures, some 96% of target it seems to be a distinct possibility
      That it will not reach 300,000 without supporters taking action to spread the petition to all of your contacts.

      I faced similar frustration with the petition against BBC Bias during Indy ref 1.
      The number reached was around 94,000 with a 100,000 target.

      Scotland needs to learn to drive things home to a conclusion when you can see the finishing line in front of you!

    118. barpe says:

      Sadly, I have now lost a lot of respect for Nicola Sturgeon, mainly due to her inexplicable absence from all the Indy marches – but today’s particularly.

      We are approaching our moment of truth, when Boris will try everything he can to do Scotland harm, yet, even now, she cannot be bothered to ‘boost the troops’ by walking in our capital city in what should/could be the final Indy demonstration before Brexit.

      I have been a staunch supporter of Nicola for many years and have met and spoken to her both at conferences and in Holyrood, but I am now really wondering if she is the best leader. I need a sign!!! Hopefully Ms Cherry will be staking her claim, today.

      My support for Indy is unwavering, my support for the leadership is not.

    119. Famous15 says:

      Off to the march soon but o/t have received the email for the Edinburgh Western SNP Parliamentary candidates but am so out of touch I do not know any of the three.

      Any advice would be appreciated.

    120. Golfnut says:

      @ barge.

      The impact that Nicola’s first appearance will have cannot be underestimated.

    121. barpe says:


      Yes, but when will it be??

      (ps It’s not barge!)

    122. Ghillie says:

      ‘Have a great day’ 🙂

      ‘Be in no doubt – Independence is coming’ 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Thank you Nicola 🙂

    123. jfngw says:

      SNP achievements, new hospitals, new schools, completed motorways, new award winning bridge, free uni places, free prescriptions, no bedroom tax is a few of them.

      DUP achievements, bung from Tories for who knows what, a lot of very well heated barns, the end.

    124. jfngw says:

      The DUP position is simple, they want to return NI to the 1950’s, a hard border and the catholic population knowing their place. It is the prime reason they want out of the EU, you can’t buy bigotry, though the Tories have tried their hardest.

      P.S. I’m not a catholic, just in case some think I have a finger in the pot.

    125. Ghillie says:

      Sure to spot you Dr Jim 🙂

      Have a great day!

      Independence is coming!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

    126. galamcennalath says:

      The DUP … want to return NI to the 1950’s, a hard border and the catholic population knowing their place. It is the prime reason they want out of the EU

      Really pisses me off the way the MSM treat the DUP as the ‘voice of NI’. The are no more than a sizeable minority. In elections they get a quarter to a third of the vote. WM’s awful FPTP system (combined with Sinn Fein’s boycott) over inflates their position.

      I believe they were the only ones who opposed the GFA and presumably still happy to see it damaged or dismantled.

      They are entitled to their views and they have their supporters, but the MSM don’t properly explain who they are and where they stand.

    127. One_Scot says:

      Not sure how many people on here use twitter, but I found this somewhat reassuring from Nicola,

      “Good luck to everyone marching for independence in Edinburgh later. I’m not able to be there in person today, but I will be with you in spirit. Have a great day. And be in no doubt – independence is coming. #indyref”

    128. starlaw says:

      have a friend in sheltered housing in Edinburgh. She was approached during the week by a man claiming to be from MORI and was doing a poll for the BBC. she declined his offer so not sure what this was about but can guess, wonder how many other sheltered housing sites were visited for this BBC poll ?

    129. Jack Murphy says:


      All Under One Banner March in Edinburgh.

      IndyLivestream is keeping Scotland up to date with how things are going via it’s Twitter page including video links:

    130. @Effijy 11.22

      I have shared the First Minister’s petition

    131. Famous15 says:

      Brilliant march.Friendly and cheerful crowd. Fair bucked up my spirits after some negativity on this site.

      Did not make it to the Meadows as my prostate complained.If there is a post mortem on the march I would ask who ever is in consultation with Police Scotland to ask would they have treated an Orange March to the same pointless delays. Were they hoping the rain would reduce the numbers?

      Everyone on the march was very nice but at times you can be too nice. Ken?

    132. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Is the Rev at the march in Edinburgh? Incognito?

      The guy in the middle, blue wings costume.. 😉 🙂

    133. Effijy says:

      Any word from the organisers on the numbers at the march today?

      To the police, please don’t bother with your estimate. Boris is in charge of jokes for your lot.

      If Edinburgh Council were to estimate on the same terms as their Tram installation costs there figure
      Will be in millions!

      Well done everyone who took part!

    134. Lenny Hartley says:

      Effigy , Patricia Gibson MSP has just put outva fb post and says that estimates are 250k ,
      Dont know where she got that from .

    135. Proud Cybernat says:

      Official attendance at AUOB Edinburgh today announced: “Over 200,000 people” attended the march. Which would be like 2 MILLION people marching thru London.

      And another interesting factoid is this. 200,000 is 3.7% of the Scottish pop & SMASHES the 3.5% rule:

      “nonviolent campaigns are twice as likely to achieve their goals as violent campaigns… it takes 3.5% of the population actively participating in the protests to ensure serious political change”

    136. Proud Cybernat says:

      Official announcement on twitter of attendance figure at AUOB Edinburgh today:

    137. Robert Peffers says:

      Perhaps the next AUOB March could start in Scotland and march over the border into England. Perhaps Berwick would be a great place to do so.

      I wonder what BBC Scotland would make of that?

    138. Effijy says:

      Could I ask the Tories, Labour and the Fib Dems to organise
      A joint keep Scotland suppressed by Westminster March to see
      If they can put 2,000 people together.

      The is an indisputable sign that the appetite for Scottish Independence is veracious!

      Over 200,000 Marchers in Edinburgh is completely overwhelming!

    139. Gary45% says:

      Bon Dias Troops, Hope the march went well. Limited Internet here , I suppose the ” mainstream media” will update the details!!!!!.
      Maybe RT will show the March? mmm, then again, maybe not.
      Anyways, hope it was a great one.

    140. Terry callachan says:

      I thought the police control today was diabolical
      The two roads the march had to cross as they made their way towards the high street / royal mile had barriers that the police used to first stop the traffic then stop the march ,they did this alternating every five minutes or so .

      I said to one policeman that given the number of people these two roads should have been closed off and traffic diversions implemented but his response was everyone in Edinburgh has to be catered for .

      Further up the road where the thirty or so unionists were gathered the police control was left wanting once again, I pointed out to one policeman that every policeman was facing the marchers there were no police facing the unionists at all.

    141. Terry callachan says:

      That was a fabulous day out
      I was fortunate to be right at the front following that superb pipe band
      It was some hike so many people ,great atmosphere people singing , playing music so many young people , that’s new , and lots of children too.
      Nice to see the Dundee MPs and MSPs there too and what a show from the YES bikers there must have been a couple of hundred of them.
      This was some day, what a turnout ,the unionists about thirty of them were drowned out and you could see the realisation on their faces that they were out of their league.

    142. David says:

      Small sample SNP voters only not worth it

    143. Dr Jim says:

      Just home, astonishing turnout, just astonishing, so if anyone was watching for my fishing rod you’ll have seen me a thousand times, everywhere I looked people had the same idea

      They kept coming and they kept coming in their thousands and thousands, rain did not dampen their spirits, hour after hour the walked, they meandered, they rolled their wheelchairs, they came with walking sticks, they came with dogs, children came armed with a big flag or a little flag or a banner but they all came with a smile

      They sang, they shouted, whistled, blew trunpets banged drums and I’ll bet there are some still there doing it

      Today Scotland stood up and was counted, and when the counting finally stopped at 200,000 they were still coming

      So if we’re thinking of invading anywhere our army is 4x bigger than the British, oh and manky jaiket and his bad faced British protesters can still only manage about a dozen

      The only arrests were our arresting personalities

      A wee shoutout for a lady called MJ who tapped one of my fags and a five minute natter, so if you know her she owes me

      Fags are dear

    144. Tam the Bam. says:

      Just caught Misreporting Scotland’s report on the Indymarch.
      It was pretty fair in truth…they actually broadcast the estimated attendance of 200K!!!… (that’s got to be a first!).

      p.s. anyone got a link to Joanna Cherry’s speech from today?

    145. Lochside says:

      BBC Scotland embelish their blatant anti-Indy Propaganda with their pathetic attempts to diminish today’s march size and impact:

      ‘thousands march’…imagine if it was anybody else e.g scabrous huns/OO on the rampage in Manchester?

      ‘ a group of bikers’…is 300 a group?

      That’s the Branch office…meanwhile on Big Brother Corporation..the march is ignored completely.

      As a final dig, apparently there were only ‘20,000’ ‘not 100,000’ at the last Edinburgh march…funny how the time we marched up to Calton hill, a shorter distance and smaller crowd was agreed to be 40,000…that was the time they fabricated 6 x Better together’s choreographed ‘canvass’ in an Edinburgh St as an ‘equal balanced’ report.

      Unbelievable in a so-called reality a nascent fascist state in the making….but not as long Scotland stands strong.

      Well the 200,000!

    146. Breeks says:

      Home again. Less of a march for Indy, more of a stand about for Indy, but it’s done.

      Belated hello to the two guys with a Wings flag and two short haired ginger/gold retrievers(?) on the hill below Arthur’s Seat. I was the guy behind you with the Border Terrier. I was going to say hello, but thought one of you might be Ken500 and talk disjointed pish for hours and hours.

      Don’t know what the numbers were, but it felt big. It was actually the first time I regretted taking the dog. As Terry says, getting held up on the mile was a bit oppressive with a wee doggely in tow.

      Kinda vexed I missed Joanna Cherry speaking. She was long gone by the time I got to the Meadows. I didn’t hang about. Wet, and wee dog had had enough.

    147. Roger says:

      Right, Rev, all very interesting. But now shows us the really interesting part of the poll (the reason you commissioned it in the first place) – what percentage of those who would vote SNP with their constituency vote would vote vote for a new indy party/wings party with their list vote?

      THAT’S the real question – we know you asked it.

      Stop keeping us in suspense.

    148. ahundredthidiot says:

      Couldn’t make the march today due to work, but delighted to hear the turn out was better than Glasgow – which was over 100K of awesomeness – if Edinburgh is as some people say, closer to 200K, then I would suggest ten times that would vote for Indy.

      Not wanting to get carried away, but the stars are aligning for us.

    149. Grey Gull says:

      Enjoyed my first and hopefully last march for independence. Met lots of great, like minded folk. We are a great country. Let’s be normal. Let’s be independent!

    150. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Well done to all on the march a nice bunch of folk as always. I was doubtful if my knee was going to manage round but we did fair knackered.

      No demand in Scotland for indyref 2, pish.

    151. scotrock says:

      Read your twitter rant against NS
      End of donations from me

    152. CageyBee says:

      Because of my health I cannot manage to do the marches so I pick a spot near the end. Last year , in far better weather it must be said,I was at the tron and the march took 1hr45 to pass me and that was with delays for traffic. This year I was at the island at forrest road and it took from 13:35 till 15:50 to pass me , a constant stream with no traffic delays I am guessing easily double last years figure marching no idea how many just went straight to the meadows. I did visit the wings stall before and after the march left a wee donation and got a vile cybernat keyring. No bad for a mostly lurker

    153. Lenny Hartley says:

      Breeks 🙂

    154. Dorothy Devine says:

      DrJim , I have a bone to pick with you! Having accosted 4 large flagpole bearers and discovering not one of them was you , I was deeply disappointed – I have to say the four chaps were most apologetic that they weren’t you.

      Tartanpigsy , I also accosted a load of bikers in an attempt to find you and give you a wee donation – all the bikers I spoke to were very apologetic too!

      Super day despite the drizzle – what a gang !

    155. Breeks says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      5 October, 2019 at 6:53 pm
      Breeks ?

      Beautiful dogs Lenny… Wish I’d said hello now.

      Kinda planned to linger after the walk, but it took too long. 🙂

    156. Breeks says:

      I couldn’t swear it was him, mibees 90% sure, but did anybody else see Billy Connolly there today?

    157. Fergus Green says:

      Hi Breeks

      I saw someone who looked like Billy Connolly on the way in to the Meadows at around 3.15. He was about 10 metres away, so I could not be sure it was him.

    158. Chris Foster says:

      Breeks says:
      5 October, 2019 at 7:36 pm
      I couldn’t swear it was him, mibees 90% sure, but did anybody else see Billy Connolly there today?

      I saw him too. Was convinced it was BC until I got up close …

    159. Queensferry crossing won a special award for the UK’s best Infrastructure project.

      The Queensferry Crossing has been named the UK’s best infrastructure project.
      The £1.35bn bridge over the Forth – which opened to traffic in August 2017 – won the infrastructure category at this year’s Rics Awards grand final.
      Judges hailed the crossing, the world’s longest three-towered, cable-stayed bridge at 2,633m (2,880 yds), a “worthy winner”.
      Rics judges said the bridge had opened after “only four years’ planning and six years in construction”.
      They added: “In addition to this impressive feat, the out-turn cost improved from the original budget of £3.2bn to a final cost of only £1.35bn.
      “This new bridge is a worthy winner in this category and a tribute to collaborative teamwork.”
      BBC Scotland website

      Let’s see the Union supporters wriggle out of this one then!!!

      Well done Scotland.


      I’ve read that the Queen’s speech may not go ahead because it could be perceived as an election speech. If Boris is planning to have a GE any time soon, it could seem that the Queen is making a campaign speech for him. She should only be opening the Parliament of an existing, pre-elected Government …. so that’s an interesting twist on the whole affair.

      He has to visit her, I guess, to ask for the prorogation and perhaps she might just sack him there and then since ‘we are displeased’.

    160. Ghillie says:

      Well! That was braw =)

      A tiddily bit damp but braw 🙂

      My 2014 YES umberella got an airing and I think I might have been the only person there with dry hair!

      Met a lovely old friend Vanessa 🙂

      Spoke to You Choop vandalising the Wings stall, John from Yes Hub and the lovliest Pillar Fernandez and Mr Fernandez in Doctors =) with our good friend Chris =)

      And HEY met Mrs X Sticks and X Sticks – safe home xxx

      A grand day with my sons and dear friends =)

      Saw our amazing Joanna Cherry. Hardeep and the great Janey Godly 🙂 Thankyou for the music, the stalls and all that orginisation! Thankyou to our Edinburgh police too for being there =)

      Possibly most significant for Edinburgh’s future, met our new candidate for Edinburgh South – Catrionna MacDonald 🙂

      Mr Murray should be shaking in his unionjack suit.

      What a lovely day 🙂

    161. Pete Barton says:

      Both Herald and National comments sections full of angry wasps sorry trolls today..infested and very mean.

      DO NOT FEED.

      77th are out in force.

      I note that our state broadcaster has no mention of this humungous event on the ‘UK’ news page.

      That tells you everything you need to know.

      Well chaps, on with the Dunkirk spirit..

      You can fool our southern neighbours that we don’t exist,

      you can even fool yourselves that it’s the right thing to do

      BUT you can’t fool the World.

      It is actually making a laughing stock of the once Great Britain.

      And no, it WON’T go away, no matter how hard you try, or what you do.

      Scots have the right to be heard.

      And seen.

      Hey Betty, we’ve thought very carefully..

      Now heed our sovereign voice.

      DO your duty.

    162. silverbuick says:

      The BBC have the march on the UK and Scotland sections.

    163. Lenny Hartley says:

      Breeks, it was a smiley thing with your comment regarding ken500!
      Glad y’all enjoyed the march today, hope your all dried out outside if not inside.

    164. Liz g says:

      Terry Callahan @ 5.22 & 5.31
      Did ye leave your “great” position at the front of the march to time what came next? Otherwise how do you know what happened every 5 minutes fur the next couple of hours?

      Also,I can’t believe that you actually complained to the Police… ( If this is actually true )….. Ya miserable Auld moaner ye… After the day we all just had….
      Shame on you.

      Our Police have been fair with us on the actual marches at every turn .
      Last year ( when I was in the Edinburgh march, as Cactus will confrim) they stopped us for traffic and took the time and trouble to explain what they were doing and why they were doing it…They asked for our patience and thanked us fur it.
      I see nae problem with this,we are trying to build a Scotland where people cooperate… Are we no?

    165. Pete Barton says:

      @Silverbuick: Sorry, nearest I can find is

      Ten arrested ahead of London climate protests’

      Of course, might just be bad eyesight on my part.


      To all our wet and happy attendees @ Edinburgh, trust you feel nice and warm n fuzzy inside.

      Thank you to all who made it happen.

    166. Ken500 says:

      Poopy pants moaning again. Wee terrier. Try and keep up. Miles behind.

    167. Bobp says:

      Fantastic people who marched in Edinburgh, well done everyone.

    168. Ken500 says:

      Great March. Best numbers. Apart from the rain but did not dampen spirits. Glasgow is hard to beat. Missed Tommy Sheridan. Left.

      Great YES Event. Plenty of tunes. Great company. Now relax.

      Edinburgh never fails to impress.

    169. Ken500 says:

      Hartley at home

    170. Ken500 says:

      In the dumps

    171. Ken500 says:

      Should have gone to specsavers. Billy’s in the US. Performance at Cineworld. 12th October for one night only.

    172. Gary says:

      Oh how the pipe bands lifted the spirits and put a spring in the step of the marchers! What a blessed country we are to have such an amazing identity and musical culture!

      Could not stop laughing at how glencorse pipe band blew away the racist biggots with Scotland the Brave on the high street! How the marchers loved it! 😉

    173. Chick McGregor says:

      Was gutted I couldn’t make the march due to a family bereavement. 🙁

    174. Liz g says:

      Chick McGregor @ 9.37
      My condolences to you and yours Chick….
      Perfectly understandable of course.
      No one would expect it of ye…

    175. call me dave says:

      Hi: Lady Hale now reading all the story of prorogation from her court judgement.

      Part 4 just started including Scottish view.
      Radio 5: If your not too tired.

    176. gus1940 says:

      Pity about the bunch of young yobs jumping up and down waving cans in front of the stage.

      I kept hoping that the stewards or the police would take care of them.

    177. Ian Brotherhood says:

      It’s a mark of how fractious the whole indy scene has become when we have over 200k gathering in Edinburgh but even asking why NS wasn’t present is akin to waving a red rag at the proverbial.

      Scotrock (6.30) is angry enough with Stu’s tweets that he (?) will no longer donate to this place.

      Morag Kerr also expressed her disappointment on Twitter and was instantly rounded upon.

      So, tbh, I’m hesitant even to submit this because I really am not in the mood to have a rammy with anyone, but the point needs to be made…

      Since when did it become taboo to raise even the most basic and obvious fuckin questions?

      I, for one, honestly do not know and cannot figure out why Nicola didn’t at least show face, perhaps do a bit of mingling well in advance of Joanna’s speech. It would’ve meant so much to so many.

      But even raising that question is evidence of something sinister?

      Well no, actually, it fuckin well isn’t. It’s a simple and honest reaction to behaviour which many find inexplicable and borderline offensive to the thousands of people who’ve been involved in building and maintaining the Yes movement for the fat end of a decade.

      I still don’t know why she didn’t show and haven’t seen a solitary attempt at explanation let alone a vaguely convincing one.

      Anyone fancy spelling it all out for us?

    178. dadsarmy says:

      I didn’t make it. Did do the Glasgow one this year, and the Edinburgh one last year, staying in the SafeStay just off the Royal Mile, and a hundred yards from the pub I ended up – Scotsman’s Lounge. There was a (YES of course) piper getting loads of tourists stopping. People going off for trains and buses, I had no such excuse, the hostel was 24 hour entry, I wasn’t even the last back.

      Thing was about the march is it doesn’t matter the differences, it’s the same that matters, what we have in common, and the same is – support for Independence.

      You come away refreshed, invigorated and severely hungover.


    179. Pete Barton says:


      Aye, my sister and her man went to the Meads, said to me the taps aff hey let’s doon a can mob fairly let the side down.

      But hey every country has its loons.

    180. carjamtic says:

      Burn before reading

      My wrist is on fire as I never paid attention when taking the casserole dish out of the oven.

      I tip my hart NS for not appearing at any Indy marches.

      She is after all the mother of our country.

      And as such is bound by the limitations of Indy support and non Indy support , in as much have found myself I recent times.

      Although showing patience, away beyond my level of tolerance she has kept her cool and for this I commend her.

      now is the time,ma’am.

    181. galamcennalath says:


      CON: 38%
      LAB: 23%
      LDEM: 15%
      BREX: 12%
      GRN: 4%

      Just think about that. At a UK level the far right is polling 50%.

      38% would give the Tories a good majority (thanks to FPTP)

      If they stand on a hard Brexit ticket they will get a lot of the BP vote. That could take them well over 40%.

      A GE could lead to a Johnson government with a massive majority.

    182. Pete Barton says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      I am perplexed like many of us why Nicola isn’t fronting this.

      I suspect there is damn good reasoning behind this.

      As first minister for Scotland, she represents ALL of us.

      That means everyone, the whole populace, yes, no, knuckle dragglers..etc.

      But she cannot go public with her reasoning, because she has a tight ship to run.

      I hope if I’m around when the memoirs are aired that this will become apparent.

      DO all generals submit their plans prior to the engagement?

      It feck me off to be in the dark about it, but I’d rather that than blow a hole in the side of the ship at a crucial time.

      Even the Union Jackers on the royal Mile can see where this is heading, and neutrals become open minded curious.

      There were enough snp reps there..

      Please keep asking, it keeps us active and..Civil!

    183. scotspatriot says:

      I went to the March. I observed folks, young, old, disabled, I was truly humbled today, and hope, one day, we care for all in Scotland.

      I thank each and everyone of you for another life experience, I’ll never forget !

      Keep the faith peeps…..we’ll succeed….that much is guaranteed !!!

    184. Famous15 says:

      LibDems whining here.

      Big brother LibDems spying on a neighbourhood near you!

    185. Colin Alexander says:

      Managed to get to see some of the Edinburgh march on livestream.

      Fantastic. Inspirational.

      A huge well done and thank you to everyone who took part – even Dr Jim.

    186. Lenny Hartley says:

      ken 500, “Hartley at Home” im glad that in my thirty odd years of living in Aberdeenshire with 20 odd years of being a member of Aberdeen North SNP branch i never met you, your the most boring opinionated twat I have had the misfortune to read, however every cloud has a silver lining , my athritis in both knees and a foot which meant I could not attend the March today also meant that I also had no chance of being within a couple of miles of you.
      Lets hope im lucky and dont sit anywhere near you at the Aberdeen Conference next week.

    187. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Pete Barton –

      I hear ye loud and clear.

      Yes, there must be ‘reasoning’ behind it, and only a zealot wouldn’t be slightly curious.

      If it’s Nicola’s personal judgement, fair enough and, as you suggest, we may have to wait a long time to hear what it was.

      If it’s on the basis of advice from trusted advisors? that’s cool too.

      But in either case we are still ‘allowed’ to speculate, and honestly, for the life of me, I cannot even guess at a good reason.

      I hate even using the word ‘optics’ but it’s apt. Her absence today was, by any measure, remarkable – to avoid ‘remarking’ on it is nothing more than denial.

      It just *looks* bad, and no-one should have to take abuse for saying so.


    188. Pete Barton says:

      I suppose NC being the face of the SG not only at home but increasingly more at international level means she knows how easy it is to target the Scot government reputation not only domestically but abroad.

      Witness the bevvy heid mudbath at the Meadows, how easy would that be to cut n paste a simple wee OO style number to discredit our movement on Auntie?

    189. Pete Barton says:

      @Ian B:

      Keep up the questioning, I support any and all who keep an open mindset.

      Our nation’s future depends on it?

    190. Cubby says:

      Another great march in Edinburgh. What a show by the bikers. Sat in the pub prior to the march beside an SNP MP. Craig Murray admitted to me going up the Royal Mile that sometimes he doesn’t agree with his own posts. Full marks for honesty Craig. He didn’t realise I would post this on Wings. Bad Am I. Good speeches from two other SNP MPs. Good music. Two funny stand ups.
      Was at front of stage did not see any probs. Not bothered at all by Sturgeon no show. Big numbers of marchers. Very friendly funny people. Wet wet wet. Wings stall no visit. Brill piper in pub later. Pedestrianise the Royal Mile.

      I thought I would try Ken500 style of posting.


    191. Heart of Galloway says:

      Chillin oot in s wee hotel below Salisbury Crags after a wonderful march. JCQCMP was worth waiting for: “Prepare for independence!” was her final rallying cry.

      And I liked this bit: “But most of all, our independent Scotland will be at the heart of Europe, sitting st the top table.

      And we will not be like the nationalists in England sitting cantankerously on the sidelines of Europe waiting for the return of the British empire, which will never happen.”

      That’ll dae for me. And big SNP MP and MSP presence with JC, Chris Law, Drew Hendry and Shona Robison among those behind the banner.

      Other notable highlights: Rip roaring speech from Tommy Shepherd, plus goodwill message from the FM – unmistakeable and significant signs that there is NO WAY the ScotGov will back off IndyRef2 when the swallows are here next year.

      Also had a great craic with Stewart Hosie (still in biking leathers!) and his missus at the entrance to The Meadows.

      From various concersations today one fundamental fact emerged: that independence and IR2 will be front and centre of the upcoming GE campaign is a 100% stick on certainty.

      And there is absolute acceptance in the SNP leadership that with hindsight the unforgivable caution of the 2017 campaign was a serious error.

      As I said previously, that mistake will not be made again. Therefore, by extension, the narrow timeframe between the upcoming GE and IndyRef2 means the performance of the SNP will assume critical importance.

      The Empire know this. And they will use every weapon in their dark armoury against the leading Independence Party.

      Scotland therefore will need to form a tightly knit schiltron to prevail. The Indy movement may have its internal differences – but this will be no time for such scruples.

      United we win all. Lay on, lay on, they fai

    192. Dr Jim says:

      Colin Alexander

      I don’t mind anybody who makes mistakes or gets things wrong, we all do that, but you are dishonest, and I don’t like that as most people don’t

      You’re garbage kid

    193. dadsarmy says:


    194. TJenny says:

      Maybe, given the rumours of mega shit hitting the fan re the Alex Salmond trial, Nicola’s keeping an arms length approach to the Yes movement, to avoid any ‘tarnishing’ and to show that it’s indi(!)pendent of the SNP.

      Aye, I know she’s attended LBTetc + climate change marches, but these are world-wide movements, unlike our indy.

      Just a thought.

    195. dadsarmy says:

      Interesting take, one I hadn’t thought of, and a sad one I hope is wrong. Loyalty is a great quality, but it can be dangerous and contradictory. So I hope that’s not the reason.

    196. TJenny says:

      Heart of Galloway – thanks for using ‘schiltron’, which I had to google. How appro that it relates to indy.

      Anyhoo, I better start knitting. 😉

    197. bookie from hell says:

      SNP members never voting for Independence, must give the leadership a good understanding where Scotland stands

    198. Dr Jim says:

      The FMs constituency had laid on a celebration bash to mark 20 years of the FM being an MSP, but I feel there’s something more to the FMs method here, could it be the more that she’s not attending marches more people turn up to try to make her pay attention to them, it’s so easy to confuse yourself when you begin trying to work out why or why not politicians do or don’t do things, I’m beginning to turn inside out, *thwarlp* that was me doing it

      In other news people are wondering at the absence of reporting of the biggest march ever in the history of Scotland in support of Independence

      It appears the media in Scotland have not yet recieved instructions as to how they are to report this, if at all

    199. X_Sticks says:


      I think Nicolas’s playing it correctly.

      She’s the FM of Scotland. Thats *all* of Scotland, and whether we like it or not, that means the unionists in Scotland too.

      Right now the isn’t a referendum. When there is I strongly suspect that she will appear.

      She’s sending in some pretty big guns on her (and the party’s) behalf. Tommy and Joanna today. John Swinney in Perth. There were quite a few other SNP there today – Chris Law, Peter Wishart, Shona Robson and a few others too. I really am not worried about the party’s commitment.

      Joanna Cherry said today very clearly: “It is coming. We don’t know the exact timing, but it *is* coming.” I trust her.

      Great to catch up with many friends today and sorry I’ve missed a few too. You all feel like family and I like that.

      Dow’s. See you there. 🙂

    200. Sarah says:

      Back in at 10.15 from Edinburgh march. Had a good time – a smile on my face the whole time being with so many pleasant, positive, well-behaved people of all ages and types. The police must have wondered why they were there.

      I can’t say how many people were there because I never managed to see Holyrood Park as my group had to be quite near the front as coach back to Inverness left at 5.00.

      But we were near the front and still took 90 minutes to reach the Meadows. When we left circa 4.30 folk were still coming.

      I didn’t see anyone with a seafishing rod, Dorothy. Perhaps they come in a different shape nowadays. But after your experience of accosting non-Dr Jim’s I think I was lucky!

      I did see an extremely long rod with a Wings flag and a gentleman attached but we didn’t speak. And I didn’t see the Wings stall because I was hunting for my group and thought I’d missed the coach home!

      I managed to hear Joanna Cherry’s speech – she said they can’t say when the right moment will come but we must be ready. Given her level of brains, energy and commitment I think I will relax and wait to be told.

      So another great day of solidarity. But I hope we won’t need to do many more.

    201. dadsarmy says:

      The thing is if you have an AUOB march in Edinburgh, with it announced 2 weeks in advance that the FM will be at the head of it it is quite likely to get more people along, but it also can not be ignored by the media. This would be the real one, it’s kicking off, the establishment better done and gone and do something pretty damn quick. Help our Previous Union!

      Whereas with a few random punters in charge, some assorted MPs and MSPs unofficially there and a quarter of a million people, the establishment can pretend it’s just 20,000 randomers and say Scotland doesn’t want Independence, look at the huige numbers of counter-manky shirts.

      Meanwhile the cunning plan unfolds behind the scenes.

      Or not, depending on what people want to believe.

      But Ian Brotherhood is right, not being able to discuss the quite noticeable absence of the SNP Indy Supporting FM who negotiated the terms of the Edinburgh Agreement and beat both the dignified Moore, and Carmichael (Help me Rona) in debates, is sheer madness. It’s like “duh, she’s not there, why?”.

      Anyways, she has my vote, she wanted for the Scottish Navy not just 3 or 4 Type 26 frigates, but FIVE OF THEM.

    202. Colin Alexander says:

      It’s no fair criticising the FM for being absent from pro-indy marches when she can find the time to attend pro LGBTI and Stop Brexit and climate change protests etc.

      Efter aw, her knees must gie her hell, she’s been on them for years to the British Empire begging tae help take Scotland out of the EU; begging the Lords not to strip Holyrood of devolution powers.
      And begging for an S30.

      But to be fair: that’s what devolution is all about. Serving the British Empire. Serve as in servitude.

      It’s time Nicola Sturgeon and others in the SNP decided once and for all:

      Do they serve the British Empire or sovereign Scotland?

    203. gus1940 says:

      While I am pleasantly surprised that nearly all the metropolitan blats covered yesterday’s march it would appear that they have shared the output of a solitary reporter as every paper contains voxpops from the same people all making identical word for word comments.

    204. jfngw says:

      I think it’s quite understandable why NS does not attend these marches, it gives the unionists an easy target at Holyrood ‘why is she not doing the day job and just going on marches’. I firmly believe this will change once an independence referendum is announced.

      Thse who complain she is willing to attend other rallies must see that the other parties cannot attack this as they may also support the same cause. Politics can never be black or white, there is a lot of image manipulation involved.

      When I was working I always attempted to pick the fights with management I could possibly win, railing against every decision usually resulted in always losing.

    205. Breeks says:

      I don’t want to dampen the mood, and personally, I didn’t miss Nicola at today’s march, but I would however offer a friendly word of caution that if Nicola isn’t careful, there’s a credible possibility she might hear the occasional boo if she did turn up.

      You just need to look at the relative tone of spontaneous Twitter comments below what Nicola might say, and for comparison, below what Joanna Cherry might say. There are a lot of angry people feeling let down and bewildered by a perceived failure in leadership. No such concerns about Joanna Cherry QC.

      It’s no secret I’m not a fan of the SNP. I’m quite honest about it. There’s a lot of very mediocre dead wood in their ranks, and that’s being kind. For a long time, I thought the only true ‘live wire’ and prestigious strategic thinker was Alex Salmond. But Joanna Cherry is another; the same but different, if that makes sense, a genuine strategic thinking General at the top of her game. A very rare commodity.

      Frankly, I’m thoroughly bored out my tiny mind trying to decipher the enigma of what Nicola Sturgeon might be thinking. I’m so fkg sick of it, it’s physically painful. We are firmly in “yeah, whatever…” territory. I’m neither up nor down about Nicola herself, but I fear she is painting herself into ‘expendable scapegoat’ territory if ever the SNP feels the need for an emphatic change of tempo. We reap what we sow in life, and Nicola needs to wise up fast and sack her agent…

    206. gus1940 says:

      Even the BBC are using the same vox pops from the same people.

      The solitary reporter must be raking in a fortune with cheques rolling in from practically every media outlet in the UK.

    207. Hamish100 says:

      Breeks disnae want tae dampen the mood. Lets boo the first minister and sack her staff

      Yes sure. Do the tories work for them. Not sure I would turn up to thevtreetin faces like breeks.

    208. dadsarmy says:

      The thing is basically, that as the appointed Commodore for the flotilla of 5 Type 26 anti-sub frigates which Sturgeon already secretly has had built and commissioned by stealth arrangement with iSaE at Govan for no particualr reason back in 2014, I have in my control 5 very effective Sonar 2087 and currently there are 5 Asroc missiles ready to fire at the detected subversive submersible targetted at 12.35 degrees.


    209. Clapper57 says:

      Had a wonderful day today… a wee bit wet..but it kept us cool while we marched…Lol

      Managed to shake Joanna Cherry’s hand…at back of stage in hubby and I were having a chat with our friend Kevin Gore after his set…and she appeared so shook her hand.

      My hubby was listening to Peter Bell on stage and I went on a wee wander to find WOS stall..but could not see it…everywhere muddy so gave up….saw the BBC woman scrolling through her tablet…and cameraman setting up camera…wide berth given.

      Never saw manky shirt as we were on the opposite side and all the flags obscured him…gutted…NOT…bet he was ragin at all of the thousands and thousands of people marching….will. it.never.end. ……..aaarrrgggghhhh….

      Someone will be greetin himself to sleep tonight…

      Manky SHIRT will be feeling HURT serves him right the little SQUIRT ……..he likes to talk through a wee MEGAPHONE he’s like a rabid dug wae a dirty BONE all he does is shout and MOAN he disnae half lower the TONE I think his presence is OVERBLOWN his voice sounds like he needs a good dose of TESTOSTERONE…poor wee man never ALONE always seems to need a CHAPERONE…or two ( obviously went to the same elocution lessons as yon Jo Swinson…it’s the vowels…extend the vowels..makes you sound posho…pseudo style over substance…never works…sooooo transparent IMHO )….Lol

    210. Iain mhor says:

      Big to all who made it today. I’m laid low wi the lurgie, so no joy. I’m awake waiting on my ‘4 hours’ to expire, so I can get another pharmacologically induced kip.

      On a great occasion, I’m not sure about the whole ‘Whaurs Nicla?” thing being the “issue de jour”. See, there’s this weird paradox – Scotland is a bizarre country, where Unionist party voters can support independence, but not an Independence party (and vice versa)
      A country where the Independence Party is in government, but as a party, doesn’t have the majority of Independence voters, yet does represent the majority of Indy voters as a government; though simultaneously, represents those who don’t support Indy, who in turn outnumber the Indy party’s own Indy voters – The FM not appearing at an Indy march is the least bizarre thing about it!

      So anyway, given that is the case, are the SNP to lay themselves open to a charge of ‘hijacking’ the Indy movement? Because not just a political leader, but Scotland’s First Minister would have that levelled in a heartbeat. In what capacity would she be there? FM, Party leader, MSP, private individual? Who’s doing the hijacking? Is AUOB hijacking the Indy movement at the same time?
      Everyone’s hijacking something eh? This site too apparently, is full of ‘hijackers’. They’re ubiquitous and legion… It could be you, it could be me, aaargh it could be anyone – trust no-one, bolt the doors!

      Of course the FM could march in the usual ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ scenario – might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb possibly – Me? I’d try and hide the rope. I wouldn’t want acclaimed as the YES movements leader and messiah, nor disclaimed vociferously. It doesn’t need overthinking, the FM has decided not to Indy march, whether one agrees or not, it is what it is.

      If a grassroots movement really does need a figurehead, it will find one. I’m sure the FM will discover if her decision not to march harms (and who it harms, if anyone) in good time. That’s really the only question: “How much harm is done by not appearing”? – She’s never marched, it hasn’t stopped anyone from going has it? No-one I’m aware of has boycotted the marches for Independence because the FM wouldn’t be there.

      So, congratulations to the people of Scotland who did march today and were happier and more uplifted, to see their kinfolk of all persuasions at their elbow supporting the call for independence, than any fleeting glimpse of a public servant.

    211. manandboy says:

      The so-called ‘border’ in Ireland is a fossil of the so-called ‘British’ Empire. There’s something about the English Ruling Class which is not very endearing, but which we all know so well. It’s like having a pit-bull terrier but always calling it a poodle, while overlooking, and even dismissing, it’s occasional atrocities, like when it kills other people’s pets.

      Matthew O’Toole writing in the Financial Times in an antidote to the ‘British’ view of Ireland, a view which, tragically, impacts on life in Ireland for so many of its people, particularly in the north east.

      Brexit, the UK and Ireland: a dialogue of the deaf
      A dense shared history has led only to misunderstanding over the meaning of the Northern Ireland border

    212. manandboy says:

      “Houston, we have a problem.”

      Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson is a product of the English class system. He is only in post at Number 10 because of his parents. It has nothing to do with either his genuine ability as a politician, or with any genuine desire to serve the public. Quite the opposite is probably the general view.
      The simple fact of the matter is that Mr Johnson is not ‘genuine’. He is neither a genuine person nor a genuine politician. The evidence for this accumulates almost on a daily basis, except on the BBC, naturally.
      There is probably no business of any significant size anywhere, which would hire Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson as its CEO, or indeed in any capacity. And that’s just part of the problem for Scotland, the rUK and the European Union.

      We live in unprecedented times. Independence will be a joyous occasion for many, but when the party is over, the view of the surrounding world may be a very sobering one.

      Meanwhile the Brexit ‘Avalanche’ continues to cause havoc. And that’s without it having even begun!

      Disturbed sleep. Bit like Brexit really.

    213. ronnie anderson says:

      AUOB have been shouting long & weary about Nicola attending marches ( a big feather in their caps whatever faction of the Manny Singh now SIM/Neil Mackay Auob lying theiving basterds that they are group ) . Don’t yous people take in what myself & others have been saying for years about the leadership & committee of said group THEY ARE BLOODY TOXIC in the way they have behaved ‘ they should count their blessings that the Yes movement keep turning out for these marches.

      Nicola would be castigated by the media for associating with this fraudulent mob . Well done Nicola for resisting the baying of Auob acolytes.

      Now back to my ‘
      holiday in Benidorm ( don;t expect any further comment from myself on this ) . Hope everyone who attended Edinburgh yesterday had a good day .

    214. Corrado Mella says:

      Plenty of BritNazi opportunists will continue to vote SNP but oppose Independence so they can continue milking Scots’ goodwill.

      Free Uni, Free Bus Pass, Free Prescriptions, Free Glasses, Free Dentist, Free Optician… but dare not to take Scots’ resources away from the colonial masters.

      They’d rather we choke mitigating the sociopathic Tories’ ideological austerity while helping folk to a half decent standard of living.

      Scotland could be so much better, unshackled from the rUK ballast, that its booming economy could pull all of Europe, including those stupid fooks doon sooth.


    215. Ken500 says:

      Excellent March. Excellent people. Excellent events. Excellent speakers. Excellent SNP leadership. Brilliant. Great joy for everyone. Looking out for each other. Despite a few dissenters. Moaning again. Trying to soil and spoil.

      Support for SNP/Independence rising, Demographics. As predicted. Onwards for achievement. Happy days. All to play a part in the success for another Indy/Ref. Thanks to everyone. Love is all around, everywhere you go. Nae soar feart folk any more. Articulation and recreation.

    216. Ken500 says:

      Scottish revenues pay for education, prescription, transport, roads etc. It’s making the right choices that matter. A well educated, healthier population makes a good community that prospers.

      Education and healthcare are two of the most important factor in any economy for prosperity and development. Followed by travel for knowledge and comparison. People can do things differently, worldwide. People can learn from each other. How best to survive.

    217. Golfnut says:

      @ barpe.

      Apologies for the misspelling.

      The FM won’t be involved before Indyref is called and strategically its the right call.

    218. Robert Louis says:

      Ian Brotherhod at 1001pm, and later.

      Totally agree. Questions should be asked, and it should not be treated as a crime, to simply ask, ‘but why does the FM never attend the indy marches’, especially since the Plaid leader regularly attends and speaks at them in Wales. I personally, don’t buy the ‘oh but the media would have a go at her etc..’, because, guess what, the media has a go at her no matter what she does. She can attend pride marches, and brexit marches, but NOT indy marches. Why?

      Great to see so many do the march yesterday, but by the time Joanna Cherry spoke, a large part of the meadows was just a slippy muddy field.

    219. barpe says:


      Nae bother, I think I might be agreeing with your thoughts re Nicola.

      Quite a few posts about it since I posted.

    220. Ken500 says:

      Try and get some rest. Or catch up. Good for the heart abd the head. Interesting times.Big Conference next. Lots of events. For people to catch up. Needs lots of energy and strength.

    221. Ken500 says:

      Stop moaning about incidentals. Find the good in some great events. Most people do.

    222. Sinky says:

      Huge puff piece for Lib Dems in Scotland on Sunday with charlatan Cole Hamilton going on about dirty tricks against Charles Kennedy. This from the man who based his whole election campaign smearing Michelle Thomson.

      This paper also says police estimated AUOB attendance at 20,000

    223. Ken500 says:

      Nicola is great for Scotland and great for Independence. People have to vote for it. When enough people do it will happen. Simple. Vote SNP/SNP. Get anotger to vote as well. Vote for Independence. It has never been closer ever. The Westminster unionists will muck up. Brexit will make it happen. Demographic changes.

      The ones who will decide a Referendum are the ones who (normally) do not vote 25% to 30% of the electorate. They are off the polling radar. Polls in tight margins normally get it wrong. One campaign at a time. Prioritise. Or both could be lost. Extended resources. The SNP could not afford it. Nicola will join in the campaign when it is called. One hat then to concentrate on. Parliament will be in recess. Less daily business. When the time comes. Otherwise it will be on with the day job. The right decision.

    224. Golfnut says:

      @ Robert Louis.

      So, the FM attends, the media include words like ‘ leader ‘ and liken the march to a Nuremberg rally along with there usual Nationalist references, do you think it would increase or decrease attendance at any future rally.
      Ian Blackford and Joanna Cherry are Nicola Sturgeons public voice, both in court and in Westminster. The FM’s strategy has to be fluid, ( remember what kind of beast we are up against )but that there is strategy in play should not be doubted.

    225. jockmcx says:

      Guy with the turban,
      if your reading this
      mind your language next time,it was’nt a nightclub full

    226. gus1940 says:

      Even the 2 Edinburgh JP propaganda rags are using the solitary reporter with his same vox pop people.

    227. Essexexile says:

      Just to say a huge well done to everyone who took part yesterday. People getting up at stupid o’clock to get a bus, to travel for hours to get soaked deserve to have their dreams come true.
      Just a thought, but is there any chance of a AUOB march in London? You can pretty much guarantee it would be very well attended and a real statement if the route went passed HoC.

    228. stuart mctavish says:

      Best time for FM to be there will be when ex FM(s) and leader(s) of opposition are also there 🙂

    229. Ken500 says:

      Scottish National Party. The clue is in the name. Form your own Parties elsewhere.

      SNP 10 times more members than the Tories. (Pro rata).

      Tories 140,000 members (from) 65Million pop. (+DUP)

      SNP 120,000 members (from) 5.2Million pop

    230. Ken500 says:

      Forth Road Bridge never fails to amaze.

    231. Ken500 says:

      DUP 1000+ members? (from) 1.5million NI pop. 1/3 in the Orange Lodge. Unequal, racists, bigots, misogynists. Not equal or fair. Blackball people. Secrecy. Predominately male membership.

    232. Terry callachan says:

      The best AUOB march for Scottish independence will be the one that takes place immediately after Scotland declares its independence.

    233. Golfnut says:

      Interesting wee read on ‘ Tax research ‘ on Indy March Yesterday.

    234. Famous15 says:

      It was the good nature and friendliness of the marchers that will live in my memory.

      It will make me smile all the way to Independence Day..

      BTW the app on my phone only counted 247,826 so I wonder where some people get their figures.


    235. Sarah says:

      @Famous15: thanks for that cheery comment. Confirms what I felt and reported at 12.01 this morning.

    236. galamcennalath says:

      “200,000 people marched for Scottish independence in the streets of Edinburgh yesterday. Search the English press online and there will be little or no hint of it. But that was 3.7% of the Scottish population. Anything much above 3% is considered a tipping point on such issues. Proportionately this was likely to have been bigger than the demonstrations against Blair’s Iraq was. And that is a sure sign that come what may Scotland has little overall desire to stay in the Union “

      In the last 24hours I’ve seen the ‘tipping point’ quoted as 3.5% and now 3%.

      The political theory is that a demonstration above ~3% of the population shows the will of the people, and their will to make sure it happens. There are, apparently, many historical precedents.

      It’s not a concept I was aware of.

      Excellent piece of news on a dreich Sunday.

    237. Elmac says:

      The 200000+ who marched would include a disproportionately low % of kids. How many were eligible to vote and what % did that represent of the electorate? I think you will find it was considerably more than 3.7%.

    238. galamcennalath says:

      March yesterday must be the largest in Scotland, ever.

      It is being described as the largest Indy march.

      Is it the largest ever? Anyone know?

    239. galamcennalath says:

      …. march of any type, I mean.

    240. Cubby says:


      Spot on comment. Too many Dr Dooms who don’t go to the marches posting Doom filled negative crap on Wings.

    241. gullaneno4 says:

      Some SNP supporters can be accused of not seeing the wood for the trees.
      The Edinburgh march was organised by AUOB. [note the title]
      If Nicola had used the march to grandstand the SNP it may have resulted in Yes voting supporters who do not vote for the SNP taking umbridge.
      YES is a very broad church and we must protect that.

    242. Capella says:

      Thoroughly enjoyed the Edinburgh march in spite of the rain. Me and my daughter bumped into Janey Godley on the way to Holyrood, which was a treat. Janey as funny and friendly as she is on stage. We saw her in Aberdeen on Thursday night, minus the soup pot.

      Met up with some old friends and visited the Wings stall where Lollysmum and Liz g were were working hard. Great to be able to put faces to names.

      I heard terrific speeches from Tommy Shepherd and Joanna Cherry. Hope someone can get them uploaded. Very encouraging. Craig Murray was there but sadly we missed his speech. A brilliant day for Indy.

    243. Effijy says:

      The Observer poll giving the fascist Tories and their Brexit
      Party counterparts 50% of the vote.

      We cannot deny England its democracy just as they should not
      Ignore Scotland’s.

      We must separate these 2 nations as 1 hopes to repeat the history
      If 1930’s Germany.

    244. ahundredthidiot says:

      gullaneno4 @10:24

      You’re right, I will look for AUOB next time I am in the polling booth.

    245. ahundredthidiot says:

      Breeks @12:53

      you lost me at ‘if that makes sense’

      I expect better from you.

    246. Essexexile says:

      C. Womble @ 10.23am

      “Spot on comment. Too many Dr Dooms who don’t go to the marches posting Doom filled negative crap on Wings.”

      …and thankfully only a handful of thickos left on Wings who are too dumb to understand the wider debate and too dumb to appreciate how dumb they appear to everyone else.

      Milej niedzieli.

    247. Heart of Galloway says:


      Absolutely correct. Distinguishing between certain contributors on here and a ray of sunshine at momentous times such as these is never difficult.

      For these are momentous times – and for the life of me I can’t understand why after 200,000 people marched gloriously in support of independence for their country some persist in trying to conjour up a negative by suggesting the FM’s absence from the march is somehow a big issue in the Indy camp.

      It isn’t – and never has been. Everybody but minister’s cat kens her every action, her every word, will be interpreted within the parameters of IndyRef2 and its timing.

      The timetable? GE within weeks. Referendums Scotland Bill made law by end 2019 (the huge implications of which remain largely unreported) IndyRef2 to follow in 2020 any time from April/May.

      Tick tock.

    248. galamcennalath says:

      Effijy says:

      The Observer poll giving the fascist Tories and their Brexit
      Party counterparts 50% of the vote.

      In the 2015 GE results in England were Tory 40.9% and UKIP 14.1%, total 55% for the far right.

      England is willing to vote, keen to vote, for far right parties and policies. It’s now ingrained. Their political landscape has moved to the right. The centre and left has been sidelined.

      Scotland is on a totally different path.

    249. Hamish100 says:

      BBC politics
      I see Sir (joke) John Curtice on to downplay Pleid and the SNP with right winger Ian Dale.

      All he could say there were lots on the march. This from a guy that’s supposed to know about numbers.

      Similarly the Police try and opt out of giving a figure for a parade — when it suits. They should know as they are supposed to plan for crowd control and practice various scenarios.

    250. gus1940 says:

      STV as well sharing the solitary reporter and his vox pops.

    251. Sharny Dubs says:

      Big wave to the Wings stall, and the next stall along for giving us access to their card thingy so I could get my shirts.
      Cheers folks.

    252. Ken500 says:

      Davidson on the move. Manoeuvring. Angling for a job doon south. Knowing she will be voted out in Scotland. Massive failure. Liars always get found out. Looking for a job in the South to feather the nest. Typical Tory. Troughers.

    253. Golfnut says:

      @ Heart of Galloway.

      Not sure if you are referring to me as a ray of sunshine, if so it is greatly appreciated and an absolute first. My wife is rolling about the floor laughing, hopefully this will stop soon.

      Momentous times indeed.

    254. Daisy Walker says:

      galamcennalath says:
      6 October, 2019 at 10:20 am
      March yesterday must be the largest in Scotland, ever.

      It is being described as the largest Indy march.

      Is it the largest ever? Anyone know?

      From what I’ve read – I suspect the biggest march/turn out in Scotland may have been for John McLean’s release.

    255. Les Wilson says:

      Yesterday was a great day,despite the rain appearing. The bikers were great, the pipe bands were great.
      Undoubtedly the biggest event, and I have been to most.

      But for me the solidarity among everyone, was something else,
      it usually is very good anyway but in this size of supporters was something special.

      People of all ages and all types marching with their kids, their dugs,disabled people, all smiling and participating for Scotland.

      My biggest smile was going past the smelly UJ shirt man.
      he was drowned out by the boos and everyone was laughing at him. His supporters were something else, around a dozen flags and maybe 30-40 people in total.

      They all looked like they love a drink too much, what a motley crew they were.Wonder what he paid them? It could not have been very much.

      Well done again,to all who participated they were all great folks.

    256. Cubby says:

      “Just a thought, but is there any chance of a AUOB march in London”.

      The words of the London centric Britnat from Essex who thinks the world revolves around London. Too lazy to get a train to Edinburgh Mr phoney. Let’s have the march in London he says it’s a short train journey for me.

      The biggest dumb ass selfish comment on Wings for many a year.

      “You can pretty much guarantee it will be WELL ATTENDED and a REAL statement if the route went past the HoC”. The words of a concern troll.

      The march in Edinburgh was well attended.

      The march in Edinburgh was a real statement.

      Only a Britnat would think that only a real statement can be made if it is in London and at the HoC.

    257. Jock McDonnell says:

      Great Day yesterday, it definitely felt significant. The crowd was vast & so many well wishers on the pavements too.
      On the FM, yeah it would be nice to see her, but she really has only 1 significant shot at this. It has to be right. Strategic. Big Tent.
      I understand the significance of her delegates being in attendance.
      But the moment is coming, we just can’t let the pot boil over too soon.

    258. Dorothy Devine says:

      I see from the Rev’s twitter that someone called Amanda is missing . Since she is one of the ‘family of Indy’ I would like to know that she is safe ,well and home so if anyone has news could you spread it.

    259. Liz g says:

      Daisy Walker @ 12.04
      I think there’s always going to be controversy around the numbers.
      The Police and the Councils are never going to admit to greater numbers than they catered for!
      This type of event doesn’t need any back up police,riot vans, amoured horse’s and dog’s hanging round adjoining streets.
      We really only need a bit of an escort for safety.
      So the figures around the ratio of police to attendance
      could be made to look like they were incompetent and they’d have to answer for it. I think that why their ” official ” numbers are always on the low side.

    260. Colin Alexander says:

      Maybe we’ve been too harsh on the FM.

      Maybe, as we write, she’s drawing up the final preparations to the SNP manifesto to make the upcoming General Election an electoral plebiscite on dissolving the Union.

      And preparing a promise that from now on, win or lose, the SNP will seek an outright mandate to dissolve the Union.

      The SNP, the party of Scottish independence, not British Empire devolution.

      Ah, if only…

    261. Essexexile says:

      Wallace got as far south as Derby before he was taken seriously.
      As invigorating as yesterday’s march was for those involved, it was widely unreported. That is, only one journo actually bothered to attend and then a bunch of other titles purchased the story, including quotes from the same marchers.
      These marches are getting a bit samey tbh. That’s how it appears anyway. How about stepping out of the comfort zone? It would be the mother of all awaydays and a chance for England based indy supporters to show their support.

    262. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Amanda Brown Music artist. did post twitter link but it failed moderation.

    263. starlaw says:

      Biggest gathering in Scotland was the first Papal visit to Bellahouston park, but not really a march.
      Yesterday would seem to be the biggest march for anything ever in Edinburgh,and run by AUOB an Independence supporting group.
      If Nicola Sturgeon spoke at this rally the MSM would have been on to it like a shower of dung beetles and claiming it to be a Nuremburg Rally. Best not giving them the chance, Nicola will speak soon enough and we shall all hear her.

    264. starlaw says:

      essexexile 12;49.
      We are doing our very bestist to get as far as possible away from London and Wallace did not go to Derby. Why bother going to London nothing there of any good to Scotland, and the world does not revolve around the place.

    265. Sarah says:

      @Lollysmum and Lizg: I am very sorry that I didn’t get to the Wings stall to say hello. It would have been nice to put faces to your names!

      The more I think about it the more impressed I am that so many folk can get together, walk quietly through Edinburgh, just to show that the idea of Scotland is important. No trouble, no rows, just talk and laughter e.g. after the “Tories out” chant a voice called “Labour is shite” and everyone laughed. And I said about the Tories [so only a few would have heard] “unless they support Yes”. There must be some, surely?

    266. Lenny Hartley says:

      Essexexile your mixing up Wallace with Chuck

    267. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cynical highlander , I take it that means she is safe and sound.

    268. Jack Murphy says:

      AUOB March and Rally yesterday.

      Broadcasting Scotland have put up a two hour YouTube upload of speeches and music at the end of the Rally.

      Beginning with:

      HARDEEP SINGH KOHLI at one minute

      JOANNA CHERRY QC MP at 00:04:20

      TOMMY SHERIDAN at 1:08:43

      P. FERNANDEZ interview at 1:13:14

      WG SARABAND “[ I am an immigrant in Scotland ] at 1:27:45

      PLAID CYMRU at 1:43:30

      Apologies to those I may have missed out. [smile emoji]

      Broadcasting Scotland on YouTube:

    269. Liz g says:

      Sarah @ 1.02
      Hey Sarah,no worries,we all know what it’s like trying to get around the place at the Indy gatherings. 🙂
      There’s a night out in Glasgow coming up…. In DOWs…
      Dows is practically another platform at Queen St Station it’s a literal hop skip and a jump from the train to the company of yer fellow Wingers.
      Why don’t ye try and pop along…All are welcome 🙂

    270. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      She has been found safe and sound now. 🙂

    271. Essexexile says:

      Lenny Hartley @1.06pm
      Aye, apologies. Right you are!

      Been a while since history lessons at school. Mr Duncanson would be givin’ it plenty with the big red pen for that howler!

    272. frogesque says:

      @ essexexile: 12.49

      What would you have us do then? YESterday was the usual, good natured stroll around a small part of Embra. Disciplined and well organised with friendly but firm police presence. No trouble, no arrests.

      Now, we could easily create flash mobs, bring city centres and major highways to a halt, storm buildings like the BBC etc but what good would it do. The Indy movement would be vilified with just cause. One, just one death would be all it took to take down years of peaceful, legal work.

      We have a right to peaceful protest and we take that right with a heavy responsibility, even litter gets cleared away before we leave.

      Some folk say the marches only benefit the converted. Not true! Yesterday a NO 2014 voter friend of ours, after some months of fence sitting came to the Meadows, saw what we were all about and has now been convinced to vote YES. Job done!

      I like the peaceful nature of the rallies, I’m 72 yet feel comfortable in these massive crowds, more so than I ever did as a football supporter many years ago. I’m even comfortable enough to take the dog round with me and I would never, ever do that if I thought he might be in danger.

      Finally, a small part of the wider YES movement is the YES Stones group. We paint stones with a YES theme to be left in various places; hill tops, parks, public monuments, on piles of Daily Mails and Expresses, basically where ever and when ever. We are aiming to plant 1/2M+ (500,000!) painted stones on the eve of St. Andrews Day so Scotland will wake up to a massive 1/2M stone drop. The philosophy is that one stone is worth a 100 leaflets that end up in a bin. They are individual and powerful. Catch up with us on Facebook!

      So yes, the rallies are great, they lift sprits and keep the wider movement in the public eye and just occasionally they actually do convert folk.

    273. Jack Murphy says:

      Re my Post at 1:17pm the two hour YouTube upload buffering sorts itself out at 14 minutes approx, and if you’re in a hurry here’s the WG Saraband speech followed by interview on a different YT channel:

      It’s good—-I can identify personally with much of what WG says…

    274. Dr Jim says:

      The BBC and SKY and ITN are spending every available minute of their news time filming violence in Hong Kong, trouble in Iraq, protests here and there with the potential for violence or actual violence and deliberately avoid or miss a story that’s completely exceptional to all of these stories

      And it’s a story of peace, in fact how the news media can miss this story deliberately or otherwise is in itself exceptional, and it’s the story of how upwards of 200.000 people can take to the streets of Edinburgh the capital city of Scotland and right outside their parliament to demonstrate their desire for the Independence of their country from England’s dominance

      And not one person is arrested for bad behaviour, not one person is injured by violent disorder, not a fingernail is broken much less a window or a lemonade bottle, the only counter measures deployed by the police in this event were the smiles of the officers as the 200.000 plus procession strolled happily past

      And yet if at a football match a plastic bottle is hurled onto the pitch the news crews are there to cover every angle of the violent attack on the grass, and it’s reported ad nauseum for hours after the heinous crime with interviews and views of minor celebrity ex players and correspondents bewailing such doings in *our game*, politicians opinions are sought, talks of creating committees ensue, whole programmes are dedicated to images of the plastic bottle destroying the very fabric of Scottish society..and the grass of course

      So why didn’t the news media in Scotland or indeed England cover the biggest ever demonstration of democratic desire Scotland has ever expressed?

      Because they were told not to, no ifs no buts, the media in Scotland had their instructions, do not show this event under any circumstances…..and why not?

      Because it was peaceful, and that is not the image the news wants, the news must make us bad in order to condemn us, reporting a peaceful movement by a peaceful people doesn’t supply them with the correct ammunition to create demands for our anger to be crushed by the UK government because the Scottish government has lost control

      The only crushing going on in Scotland is the crushing of Scotland’s voices by the media silencing of the truth

      Foreign TV everywhere in Europe has covered this story more than right here in Scotland which is supposed to be *Our country*

    275. galamcennalath says:

      Daisy Walker says:

      I suspect the biggest march/turn out in Scotland may have been for John McLean’s release.

      My grandmother and her sisters were there.

      “On 3rd December 1918, a crowd well in excess of 100,000 gathered outside Buchanan Street Railway Station. It was awaiting the arrival of educator, social justice campaigner and anti-war revolutionary, John Maclean …. the marchers, swollen to over 200,000, as feeder marches arrived from Parkhead Forge and Singers in Clydebank, all converging on Carlton Place near Jamaica Bridge “

      So, yesterday might have been the biggest march ever with the only competition being Maclean’s return. We will probably never know.

      Yesterday was certainly the largest for 100 years, and the largest ever seen in Edinburgh.

      It should be the biggest news story across the UK.

    276. admiral says:

      I see Ruth Davidson is saying she is “unlikely” to stand for election again. Good riddance, from one of your constituents.

      PS What’s the betting on where she is going?

      1) House of the Ermine Vermin, or
      2) Political editor on BBC Scotlandshire when Brian Toodle oo the noo finally toodles off?

    277. Ken500 says:

      Wallace got hung, draw and quartered. Edward 1. Imposed conscription and taxes on Scotland to pay for his French wars in Normandy. Vast estate. Scotland being taxed to pay for illegal wars. Nothing to do with Scotland. No more. The auld Alliance. Scots revolted.

      Prince Charlie got to Derby. Then turned back. Scotland routed once again. Draconian cruel pay back. Jacobite rebellion 1715/45 against illegal Westminster rule. 1707 illegal Treaty reneged upon before the ink was signed. Scotland to be treated equally. It was not. Conscription and taxes imposed to pay for Westminster illegal wars. Queen Anne. (last Stuart line). Recurring throughout history,

      The Orange factor. . Supported by the Crown. Racist, unequal, bigoted, misogynist, secretive. Blackballing people. Discriminatory. Everybody can’t join. Royal Tories head of the Garter carry on. Breaking equality Laws. The right Charlie income £20Million. Pays £2Billion in tax 10%. The Tory Royals got extremely wealthy evading tax for years. Illegal secrecy. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act.

      Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.

    278. Essexexile says:


      Brilliant post as ever. The YES stones idea is genius. I know you’ve put in a fair few hours on windy motorway bridges too so I’m in no way attacking the grassroots activities as a worthwhile exercise in self affirmation or their potential ‘conversion’ rate if they are well planned and executed.
      I guess my ‘what if’ echoes the frustration of others that 200k people marching through the capital in hope of a brighter future for their country is treated more or less as a ‘…and finally’ item by most media outlets.
      Peaceful mass protests have their place but maybe a few cages could be rattled occasionally? Greenpeace have been brilliant at this for years, ever so slightly provoking a response from law enforcers to highlight an issue.
      I have every admiration for those who attended yesterday and believe me, if I could attend a march that didn’t involve a £189 return pp rail fare, I would.
      Btw, am I the only one who was a bit disappointed with JC’s message? She’s been brilliant in the last few months and gained deserved admiration, but it seemed a bit like she’d been sent along, precisely because of that, to deliver the same old words. ‘Some day, soon, we promise’. I was hoping for more if I’m honest.

    279. Ken500 says:

      They could put up the rough list and order of the speakers on Stage. So people know if they have missed any speakers. Or have to leave before they are finished. It would be helpful.

    280. Ken500 says:

      Many people pay £hunners to march. They chose their March carefully. Paying rail fares in advance or discounted (rail cards) can help. Book well in advance cheaper accommodation rates. People can make a week-end of it. A short break, with a purpose. It can work out economically with a bit of planning. Nice places for a visit.

    281. Ken500 says:

      Davidson heading south by arrangement. Losing seat in Scotland. Running scared. .

    282. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dr Jim @ 14:15,

      Yes, I heard from friends in Flanders that the indy march was headline item on the TV news there yesterday.

      Go figure. (Not that it needs a genius.)

    283. Ken500 says:

      People who canna afford it can’t be there. The Marches move around. Different places.

    284. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thanks Cynical –

    285. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Proud Cybernat @ 16:47 (06.Oct)

      Which rather exposes this BritNat posturing about needing an actual majority in the polls (or wherever) to “justify” a referendum. Countries with experience of direct democracy only require an indicative minority.

      And kinda begs the question, if there was already a majority in the polls or elections, why even bother with the expense and bother of another referendum?

    286. Capella says:

      Good thread with international press reports of AUOB.

      Includes link to Flemish newspaper report with interesting videos from Calum Baird and others which the BBC would simply never broadcast:

    287. Dr Jim says:

      If the demonstration of needing a majority before democracy occurs in the seeking of such democracy then surely there is no need of democracy at all, for is not the actioning of democracy by seeking concensus the essence of demonstrating the very meaning of democracy

      Nobody wanted the repeal of the OBFA except those who wished to overturn democracy by using its principles, but by being allowed to effect those principles of freedom of democracy they managed to do it

      These same people who used that freedom of democracy principle now wish it denied to those who wish to use that freedom for the same thing

      I almost complicated myself there but I know you’ll get what I mean

      I could’ve just said The British are undemocratic Bastirts, every last crawling one of them

    288. callmedave says:

      Appears rumours are correct.

      Scottish Conservatives: Ruth Davidson unlikely to seek re-election.

    289. dadsarmy says:

      I wonder how often most of us go around the streets accosting people and asking them if they know what or where the “ethical capital” is, or would many of us regard that as a form of intellectual masturbation?

    290. Hamish100 says:


      Probably just you.

    291. admiral says:

      callmedave says:
      6 October, 2019 at 4:01 pm
      Appears rumours are correct.
      Scottish Conservatives: Ruth Davidson unlikely to seek re-election.

      Per the BBC story – “she would see out her term as MSP for Edinburgh Central.” That’ll be a novelty – her bothering to represent us here in Edinburgh Central!

    292. K1 says:

      Thanks Jack, for the link to the speakers at the march yesterday, hats off to the great speeches and the incredible numbers at the gathering.

      Couldn’t make it myself, but was there in spirit and feeling very buoyed by the turnout and passion on display in that a video.

      Thanks again Jack.

    293. Hamish100 says:

      I see Davidson was being interviewed by her old BBC colleague Smith. That famous clan of dames who gave Dugdale a wee job ( a registered charity) .

      Other course Davidson might pally up with her ex BBC colleagues like Jardine ( lib dem) Tory or maybe the Presiding Officer McIntosh ( labour) Tory or maybe Gordon the Bruno ( labour Tory)
      How about the Magnusson clan – plenty of them on the radio.

      Such an incestious organisation – metaphorically speaking of course

      So many to choose from.

    294. Dan says:

      Finally back home and dried oot after a braw but busy Saturday.
      See aw that precipitation yesterday, it wasnae really rain, it was actually unionists’ tears from when they saw such a huge gathering of Indy folks! lol

      As always at these marches, t’was great to see and be in amongst such a decent minded, well behaved, and diverse crowd.
      Special big up to the Welsh folk who traveled up for the event.

      Apologies to all that were temporarily blinded by my classy pink cagoule, or who suffered flashbacks to Barbapapa cartoons of yesteryear.

    295. Scott says:

      Has anyone else noticed this.iPlayer today you can catch up on the Marr show.I had a look to see if the Brewer show was there but no luck,is it just me or are BBC up to there tricks and and doing down Scotland.
      Bye,bye Ruthie we won’t miss you.

    296. Heart of Galloway says:


      Aye, and still the BBC acts a clearing house for the “IndyRef2 some time in the future meme”.

      Predicts Prof Curtice: “There has been a “marginal” increase in support for independence “but not enough to convince Nicola Sturgeon to go for an early independence referendum.”

      And that was after his wee barb that the 200,000 figure for the Indy march “should be taken with a pinch of salt”.

      Oh really Jock? For a psephologist you makes a gey puir fist o’ reading the runes.

      Either that, or you are part of a concerted attempt by the British nationalist MSM to foster the false narrative that the ScotGov, under no circumstances, never in a month o’ Sundays, no way Jose will even THINK about triggering IndyRef2 before 2021.

      Miichty me John, say it ain’t so! Or as oor ain sage, RP would say: “Aye! Richt!”

      And golfnut@11.41am – heh heh.

    297. twathater says:

      @ Scott 5.08pm I have tried on numerous Sundays to access the brewers droop show , mostly in the afternoon , it is NEVER available due to us jocks not being important enough for the despicable bullshit broadcast cabal ( bbc ) but you can IMMERSE yourself and be further brainwashed by the cringer Marr

    298. galamcennalath says:

      ahundredthidiot says:

      Re Numbers and the reporting on yesterdays march, this might be why….

      Indeed. Well worth a read. We all know it, but good to read it laid out coherently.

      The UK must have the most biased and corrupt media in Europe.

      1) rich owners
      2) influence of corporate advertising
      3) tiny demographic of posh boys over represented
      4) political bias
      5) security services manipulation

      …. these are all intertwined and feed off one another.

      What gets me is that none actually represent the state, or parliament, or people, or even any particular government. They do all, though, pull towards a right wing position.

      No 4, political bias, is just an obvious manifestation of 1-3.

      No 5 however, you might expect secretive security organisations to operate on behalf of the state/parliament. The problem here is probably an over representation of the demographic in 3. Their view of what is best for their state may not be the same as the public might believe. And certainly not the Scottish public.

    299. Reipublicofscotland says:

      If Colonel Davidson does leave the political sphere in Scotland all I can say is good riddance.

    300. callmedave says:

      You an ‘pop’ over to see the post but basically this is it:

      Britain-wide voting intentions (Opinium):

      Conservatives 38% (+2)
      Labour 23% (-1)
      Liberal Democrats 15% (-5)
      Brexit Party 12% (+1)
      SNP 5% (n/c)
      Greens 4% (+2)
      UKIP 1% (+1)

      Scottish subsample: SNP 48%, Conservatives 25%, Labour 11%, Brexit Party 9%, Liberal Democrats 7%

    301. Phronesis says:

      Yesterday’s march in Edinburgh was hugely significant and uplifting. Another vital and visible reference point for the YES movement, providing images that have a positive impact here and across the international community.The Indy Family continues to build its network, embed resilience and longevity into a democratic movement, share knowledge and ideas, crucially working collectively towards Scotland’s (inevitable) Independence.

    302. Terry callachan says:


      Let’s face it a march for Scottish independence anywhere on this planet including London as you suggested would only ever be a good thing

      Maybe some Indy supporters down there could organise one

    303. Terry callachan says:

      Over the years I have subscribed to commonspace then unsubscribed from them ,sometimes their reports are worthy of Scottish independence support but on other occasions commonspace is utterly reprehensible dishonest and untrustworthy.

      I’m finished with them now once and for all.

      Here is a good report about why they cannot be trusted

    304. PacMan says:

      Essexexile says:6 October, 2019 at 2:37 pm

      I guess my ‘what if’ echoes the frustration of others that 200k people marching through the capital in hope of a brighter future for their country is treated more or less as a ‘…and finally’ item by most media outlets.
      Peaceful mass protests have their place but maybe a few cages could be rattled occasionally? Greenpeace have been brilliant at this for years, ever so slightly provoking a response from law enforcers to highlight an issue.

      Using your example, green issues have a lot of sympathy in the media and in the general public at large. As a result, the activities of the likes of Greenpeace are treated in a more favourable light. The independence movement does not have that goodwill and if they did something similar they would be jumped in ferociously in some quarters.

      Besides while for example green issues are treated sympathetically, I wonder how long that goodwill will last where for instance road blocks by Extinction Rebellion caused deaths due to delaying emergency service vehicles or a stunt by them at refineries causes temporary fuel shortages?

    305. PacMan says:

      Essexexile says: 6 October, 2019 at 12:49 pm

      These marches are getting a bit samey tbh. That’s how it appears anyway. How about stepping out of the comfort zone? It would be the mother of all awaydays and a chance for England based indy supporters to show their support.

      From what I can gather you live south of the border and from the amount of post you have made about the subject, you seem inspired by the indy marches. Why not show us how it is done by organising them there yourself?

    306. PacMan says:

      Colin Alexander says: 6 October, 2019 at 12:45 pm

      Maybe we’ve been too harsh on the FM.

      Maybe, as we write, she’s drawing up the final preparations to the SNP manifesto to make the upcoming General Election an electoral plebiscite on dissolving the Union.

      And preparing a promise that from now on, win or lose, the SNP will seek an outright mandate to dissolve the Union.

      The SNP, the party of Scottish independence, not British Empire devolution.

      Ah, if only…

      Och, yer a blether.

    307. PacMan says:

      Anybody who believes the official figures of the marches should go to one of the future marches and then wait until the end of a major sporting or music event which usually involves these official crowd numbers and see the difference. If available they should get train usage figures on the days that these matches are held and compare them to ordinary days. Also, you can bet your bottom dollar if there was figures available for hotel bookings, restaurant and pub takings for the days these marches are held, they would be a whole lot different from usual activity.

    308. Giving Goose says:

      Just been looking at Jo Swinson’s voting record. As she is the LibDem leader I assumed she would be voting in favour of key LibDem pillars e.g. devolved powers to Wales and Proportional Representation.
      Well apparently not.
      And she also enjoys legislating for a bit of badger culling.
      Nice person, Jo. Not!

    309. Dan says:

      @PacMan at 7:56 pm

      Aye, well said. Anybody criticising the marches should understand just how much effort it takes to put on these AUOB events. Different towns = different councils = different routes = different numbers attending.
      If folk just think it’s simply a piece of piss and just the same work being repeated at each march they really don’t comprehend what’s involved.
      I’ve helped out in a limited capacity at my local march and bus marshalled at various others, but I do work alongside those that put in real graft, all off their own backs with no recompense for the many hours it consumes.
      There is a huge amount of work carried out by highly committed individuals within the YES movement to even get people to the events.
      EG. Our group books a bus at considerable cost and then makes tickets available to the public by setting up online booking service. Monitoring ticket take up to see if a second bus is required, which it was in our case for this weekend.
      So that then involves two sets of bus marshals and passenger sheets needing produced to ensure 80 odd folk can be safely transported to and herded up from a crowd of 200k folk, then taken home after the event.
      That’s 80 different folks’ contact details so if there is any issue during the day it can be dealt with.
      You also inevitably have last minute cancellations to deal with and so those seats can then be allocated to folk on the waiting lists which takes further effort to sort out.

      I was asked to marshal the march too, but couldn’t as was already committed to bus duties and occasionally holding our group banner which means you don’t have your hands free to do anything like take pics or hand out the song and chant sheets I had printed out the night before to see if that would liven things up a bit, but it was wet so the sheets would have turned to mush in no time so the plan was aborted because of the weather.
      If folk think the marches appear “samey”, then they can get off their arse and bring something to the party.

    310. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says:5 October, 2019 at 10:01 pm:

      What I right load of utter pish – as is usual from you.

      As to you not wanting a rammy with anyone – don’t make me laugh, why else do you mention the subject unless to have a rammy with someone.

      Note, though, that you won’t get one with me but rant away if you want to I won’t be engaging with you further.

      What’s more I, for one, can tell you why you cannot figure it out. It is because you DO want a rammy.

      The point of why Nicola will not show up at YES or AUOB events has been well explained as far back as during indyref1 but then in relation to Alex Salmond. It is the very same reason stated then why the SNP were not leading the YES movement. So it is fairly obvious to those independence supporters who are capable of logical thoughts.

      Now go figure it out for yourself – unless, of course your prime motive is to cause a rammy and divisions among independence supporters. Mind you you can get lots of help right here on Wings.

      Now I’m away back to lurking as Wings has becoming a waste of time and effort.

      At least one other person has had the courage to tell the truth and will not be contributing in future. That person may well not be alone in so doing.

    311. barpe says:

      Robert Peffers

      Good to have your input again, sorely missed.
      How’s the health issues?

    312. Lenny Hartley says:

      Auld Bob , typical pish from you.

    313. Essexexile says:

      Pacman @7.56pm

      My credentials for organising a political rally amount to ‘ownership of a bucket’ for collections! Others are better placed to make it a success.

      Could we have Wings car stickers? Or would it invite vandalism by Ultra Yoons (and hardcore Trans activists).

      Are there Yes car stickers? I’ve never seen one when I’ve been home.

    314. dadsarmy says:

      What I right load of utter pish

      One of the most accurate things ever posted.

    315. Sarah says:

      @Dan: the efforts of you and others are hugely appreciated. As just one of the tens of thousands who only have to turn up and walk, the whole thing just seems to flow by smoothly, no sign of all the continuous effort needed to ensure that everyone is safe and well.

      The organisation is brilliant in that regard.

      One of the benefits to participants is knowing that one can safely start a conversation about independence with any other person and will receive a keen and sensible response. That is so enjoyable.

    316. Arthur Thomson says:

      My thanks to everyone who took part in the Edinburgh march. It is inspiring. I had hoped to attend but was unable to because of transport problems.

      Nicola was unable to attend but I don’t doubt she would have loved to be there. She is a credit to her country. It sounds like Joanna Cherry did a great job representing the SNP leadership. A movement like ours must have a number of people who are, in themselves, perfectly capable of leading, not just a single leader. Our strength lies in the diversity of our leadership and the singularity of our purpose – not the other way round.

      I heard on LBC news this morning that Davidson has expressed her wish to lead the dependence side in Indyref2.

    317. Grey Gull says:

      OT but I don’t do Twitter but thought Rev would like it.

    318. Grey Gull says:

      Sorry! Wrong link!

    319. Clapper57 says:

      Well we have been found out….our dastardly plan has been discovered….the reason we ‘appeared’ to have had so many on the march yesterday is because….we were all doing laps….top of the hill …doon a close…back up the hill…top of the hill…doon a close…back up the hill…well those clever lot worked it out….that’s what happens when you have BIG nosey eyes…all the better to see us with……see.

      I myself did 2000 laps …..I’m just, the now, out of Accident & Emergency…nothing too serious…but am no longer a contender in the next Olympics in the RELAY race….there was me thinking yesterday would be good practice too…laugh is on me now.

      We would have gotten away with too if it wasn’t for those pesky Manky Shirt congregation types….how come they figured it out ?

      There was us , the 200 in total, thought that we could get away with this by wearing reversible jackets, having peeps hiding in closes with wigs for us to wear,disposable trousers to change easily into, false beards and mustaches,spray painted dugs a different colour…..but oh bloody no…they worked it out.

      See we are up against people who think in a strategic way…they are just too organised for us…they had binoculars, counters for counting and jelly and ice cream…HOW THE HELL DID WE THINK WE COULD COMPETE WITH THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!

      Manky shirt unfortunately and his storm troopers had it ifs, ands or buts…THEY knew we were ALL, the 200 in total, just doing laps…they had discovered our BIG plan i.e. The Grand Old Duke of York Plan…

      Oh, the grand old Duke of York
      He had ten thousand men
      He marched them up to the top of the hill
      And he marched them down again
      And when they were up, they were up
      And when they were down, they were down
      And when they were only half-way up
      They were neither up nor down

      See Manky shirt and his congregation knew…

      I know Manky shirt is a self ordained intellectual..sorry meant ineffectual……preacher but God I really thought we would be able to pull this off….face it Guys we have been beaten by a Force for Pude ( see above re the Jelly & Ice cream Manky shirt and his congregation were eating while we, 200, marched)…..never mind a Force for Good…he’s a Force For Pude….for sure.

      ps. The above really really HAS been suggested by some yoons via Twitter…looks as if some people have ALREADY donated parts of their body to science for medical research BEFORE their dead… prove you CAN continue living without a BRAIN….Lol

    320. Colin Alexander says:

      Teacher to Colin: What is an oxymoron?

      Colin to teacher: A statement that contradicts itself.

      Teacher to Colin: Colin can you give me an example of an oxymoron?

      Colin to teacher: Aye Miss: Ian Blackford of the SNP: “Everything that was seen going on at Westminster demonstrates that the people of Scotland have got to have the right to determine their own future – that means that we have to have that Section 30 sitting in the hands of the Scottish parliament.””

      Teacher to Colin: How is that an oxymoron?

      Colin to Teacher: Well, Miss, it’s no self-determination if it’s the British Empire that decides if and when Scotland can hold an indyref.

    321. Pete Barton says:

      Please, everyone on here..

      Leave your egos at the door when you comment.

      Even if you disagree with posters, don’t personalise it, òr look down you noses at what you don’t agree with?

      As Ian Brotherhood said (and I agree with him) Let’s keep this open minded.

      It is the freedom to express your opinions which mark a civil society out against the other options.

      Your choice.

    322. Pete Barton says:

      Teacher to Colin:

      Not everything is as simple as you think.

    323. Colin Alexander says:

      Pete Barton said:

      “Not everything is as simple as you think”.

      Could you expand on that and be more specific, please?

    324. Pete Barton says:


      The future is rather difficult to predict.

      Unless we have access to information privy to our elected representatives we really know very little.

      Feel free to have a stab in the dark tho!

    325. Sarah says:

      @ Liz g: thank you for the info re the next night out!

    326. Colin Alexander says:

      Why s30?

      SNP want it all official, they want the UK state to respect a YES win as a legitimate decision to dissolve the Union.

      But SNP are playing by UK state rules which say: UK Parliament is not bound by what a previous parliament legislated.

      Ms Cherry has just won a case that ruled on the sovereignty of UK Parliament over Govt / Crown.

      Therefore, even if the current or a Corby Govt said, s30 okay, all hunky dorey; it’s a deal.

      No UK parliament, no UK Govt can bind a future UK parliament to a deal to respect an indyref result.

      An s30, an Edinburgh Agreement ( as already proven) is a worthless piece of paper.

      It’s SNP kidology and they know it.

    327. dadsarmy says:

      This is Teacher to Colin
      You’ve really lost the plot
      And the papers want to know whose manky shirts you wear
      Now it’s time to leave the Union if you dare

      This is Colin to Teacher
      I’m stepping through the door
      And I’m floating in a most peculiar way
      And the stars look very different today


    328. Colin Alexander says:

      The Union was created by dirty deal.

      Throughout the history of the Union it’s been perfidious Albion.

      Indyref1 crookery left right and centre: The Vow, The BBC, The Queen with Cameron, postal vote rigging, civil service bias etc etc etc.

      And the SNP want an s30 so an indyref will be respected?

      The SNP aren’t naive. They aren’t simple. The FM isnae stupid.

      They know an s30 isnae worth the paper it’s written on.

      The SNP obviously think they gain traction with the s30 route.

      I think it’s a dangerous road the SNP are on. They’re basically implying Scotland needs permission. That Scotland does NOT have the right of self-determination, that that is something Westminster decides for us. A colonial mentality.

      It’s weak words, not the language that should be spoken by a nation striding confidently to independence.

    329. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Clapper57 @ 22:13,

      You’re telling me – I was round at least 20 times and am totally whacked out now. It’s quite a lot to ask for someone my age, yet there were 90-plussers doing their bit too, so I can’t complain. Not to forget the wheelchair users. They got some regenerative recharge on the downhill sections, but still, their batteries were truly down to the very last mAH after their stint.

      What we all have to do for indy, eh…?


    330. ben madigan says:

      congratulations to all participants and organizers for such a wonderful march and rally in Edinburgh which I’ve mentioned in the post below.
      I’ve also included part 3 of the BBC spotlight programme on the history of the troubles for all of you that enjoyed the other 2 parts
      And I’ve critiqued johnson’s latest proposals for a deal with the EU.
      It should probably be 3 separate posts but – such is life!!! Enjoy

    331. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 23:03,

      Man, you’re so full of negative hot air you must be in danger of floating away. Rather reminds me of that fella with the PA we passed on the street yesterday, though I didn’t catch what he was on about for all the booing (mine included).

      And the same response seems appropriate enough here too.

    332. Liz g says:

      Robert J Sutherland @ 11.30
      A wee ray of sunshine right enough 🙂
      We’re all giving our thoughts about yesterday and he wants to talk oxymorons!

      Having said that I’ve a good one….
      How can their be a second Liz when the first ones never been?
      Tis a puzzle 🙂

    333. Ruglonian says:

      A big thanks to everyone who helped run the Wings stall at the Edinburgh rally yesterday – you all know who you are, and how busy you were based on how filthy with mud you were by hometime 😀

      It was fantastic to catch up with so many Wingers too, as well as make new pals and have some great conversations with folk who popped by!

      We had the pleasure of having Paul Colvin on the stall again signing his latest poetry collection, and Lindsay and Adrian Bruce from AyeMail with their precious last batch of EU Saltires. A good day was had by all – a wee bit of Scottish mud never hurt anyone really!!

      Lots of familiar faces were missed though yesterday – we’ll be hoping to see you all at the next Glasgow do in Dows – Ronnie Anderson, Pete The Camera, Quinnie Fae Angus, Ian Brotherhood, Cactus, to name but a few of the folk that are normally hanging about making nuisances of themselves 😉

      Who knows where we’ll be with this bloody brexit thing and how it’ll further our cause, but one thing we can all be assured of is that we’ll go forward together – so proud to be a part of this mad mob of Wingers x

    334. Hamish100 says:

      Having done the best run around in years !o keep the numbers upmthe hardest bit was changing our outfits. Somehow I’ve ended up wi 3 pairs of underpants on . Back to front and inside oot.

      ..and one pair is a bit damp!

      Never again.!

    335. Clapper57 says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland @ 11.22pm

      My big plan for the next Indy march is holograms…Manky will be Confused.Dot.Com……….his followers will no be able to distinguish a hologram from a real person as they themselves have NO grasp of reality…..

      When you live in the Yooniverse…’s only natural you live in an ALTERED state…Lol

      ps. Good man for doing 20 laps btw…..but I beat you by time let’s get the holograms to do all the work…we can all stop off for coffee, beer, wine, three course meals, shopping, going to the cinema etc etc and catch up with the holograms on route….some techno techno guy can sort out the sound for us….All Under One Hologram….sounds good eh eh eh

    336. Clapper57 says:

      @ Hamish100 @ 12.03pm

      Lol…..I laughed out loud at your comment….” and one pair is a bit damp”……Lol

    337. Clapper57 says:

      Hi Liz g….I’m on MT…as you can see..will behave myself…maybe…..Lol

    338. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Clapper57 @ 00:31,

      Yeah, sounds to me too like a definite plan! We’ve invented so many other things, that one should be a pure doddle.

      “Confusion to our enemies.” I’m off to drink one to that toast, heh, heh.

    339. dadsarmy says:

      I was going to say, good morning campers, but luckily I looked it up first.

      Anyways, Outer Court judgement today, presumably this morning. Then Inner Court #noboff (nobile officium) plus presumably appeal, on Tuesday.

      As the impartial BBC would put it “In some minor Jockish Court”.

    340. Breeks says:

      Essexexile says:
      6 October, 2019 at 2:37 pm

      Brilliant post as ever. The YES stones idea is genius. I know you’ve put in a fair few hours on windy motorway bridges too…

      Not so sure about the stones thing… First thought I had was Rory the Tory’s pile of stones in Gretna. A so called cairn built from people depositing random stones was largely delivered in tipper trucks and build by a contractor. To my mind, it defeats it’s own purpose.

      I disagree about these AUOB marches being ‘samey’. I’d honestly struggle to say how many I’ve been to, including YES rallies back before 2014. I kinda wish with hindsight I’d written them on my flag like battle honours. They do all merge together in some respects, but at the same time, no two of them have been the same, even in the same place.

      Saturday was the first time I’d heard Smokie’s “Living next door to Alice” belting out a sound box but with ‘Alice’ modified by the crowd to ‘Boris, Boris, who the fk is Boris?” Made me smile and chuckle out loud… but you probably had to be there… and that’s the point I think.

      I have tremendous respect for the organisers. It takes me going to get myself and my dogs sorted out… now just one dog sadly, another YES trooper has been laid to rest, but he really does march with us in spirit.

      Take away these festivals of saltire forests, and the so called campaign for Scottish Independence would be colourless and anaemic with a great many people feeling abandoned to the point of despair. I cannot imagine any political campaign which had the capacity to inspire 200k like minded people to take to the streets and actually march over and over again, and yet to a conspicuous extent, be shunned to a degree by the SNP. I don’t mean the thin sprinkling of SNP marchers, but the abject failure to make any mileage from the phenomenon. We marched past Holyrood ffs… would it have killed our Government to lay on some reception or even acknowledgment of our 200k strong flypast?

      I’ve seen people lamenting the fact Gordon Brewer isn’t on iplayer or whatever. Save your data. Less than 24 hours after the largest political march in Scotland’s history, “Politics Scotland” didn’t even mention it. They / we, really do need to dig a hole and bury BBC Scotland as landfill.

      There’s an odd sadness to the marches too. Time and again, they build to a crescendo of expectation, but ‘nobody’ exploits the breakthrough and the ‘big push’ just loses momentum. The YES troops time and time again go over the top, do everything that’s expected of them, but our Government doesn’t reciprocate. You always hope the next march will be last one, because we’ll be over the line and Independence is in the pipeline and on it’s way.

      To me, the YES marches are a sign that Scotland’s aspirations to be a free and Independent Nation cannot be contained, and every now and then, there’s a march like a pressure valve blowing off steam. If it didn’t release the pressure, we’d explode. The YES marches ARE the campaign for Independence. It’s our Scottish government which seems to have lost its Independence mojo.

      If our YES marches are here to stay, at least for the foreseeable, maybe we need to follow on from the William Wallace papier-mâché caricature and lay the groundwork for an annual YES march with floats like Germany’s Rose Monday parades, and fill our streets with pipes and drums, whistles and samba drums and the tremendous Asian drummers which seem to mesh so perfectly with the pipes.. maybe an annual YES Carnival?

      Maybe. But then, all I want is the ordinary dignity of everyday Scottish Independence, not a manic forlorn party theme about never getting it. We march because right now we have to, and that’s the sad truth of it.

    341. dadsarmy says:

      lay the groundwork for an annual YES march with floats

      “annual”? I think there’s been enough already, and there shouldn’t be any need for one next October in Edinburgh, even if say the Arbroath and Glasgow ones are still needed. And hopefully not for them either. Though planning will still need to go ahead, just in case.

      Instead a whole load of mini-rallies DURING Indy Ref 2.

      Personally I can’t see it dragging on much longer, same as the Brexit fandangle. Constitutionally and democratically the UK is on its way out, and all its parts, unless serious change happens soon. Governance really is breaking down, at the UK level anyway. McWhirter and others have that right. And Scotland will be unable to hold out without breaking free.

    342. dadsarmy says:

      Just found Ginger Baker died yesterday. RIP.

    343. Ken500 says:

      People can just vote. Vote with their x and give support. Thank goodness for Nicola and Co, the SNP (Gov) standing up for Scotland. Where would Scotland be without them. It is not even worth imagining. People can just vote for it. Despite the unionists (D’Hond’t/STV) trying to muck up Scotland. Just turn up at the Ballot Box. Millions do. To support the economy and make the world a better place. Put the Westminster unionist imbeciles in their place. Out of Office.

      The UK EU contribution doesn’t even cover the cost of the biggest migration crisis since the 11WW costs for Europe. The Westminster unionists illegal wars, tax evasion and financial fraud. The economic decline. The Westminster unionists imbeciles decline. Killing and maiming people. Mindless Austerity. The Tories into oblivion, especially in Scotland. Never trust a Tory or unionists. politician. Every word they utter is a lie. Liars always get found out. They get voted out.

      People do not have to march if they do not want. They can just turn up at the Ballot Box.

    344. Ken500 says:

      Or can’t afford to march or are prevent for some other reasons. By work or caring duties etc. Just turn out to vote to give support. Just as important. Even more. Millions do.

    345. frogesque says:


    346. Ken500 says:

      Brewer is a dunce. So badly research and managed. Appalling argument. 5 mins on the internet would be an improvement. Why would anyone what to listen to Brewer. To find out facts. Totally twisted. Liars always get found out. By research in the internet. Never mind Education. Not qualified for the post. Never have so many been promoted beyond their capabilities,

      The unionist BBC. Control by Westminster imbecile unionist politicians. Propaganda. The Non Dom tax evaders. MSM illegal Press ownership. Without a free and fair Press their is no democracy. The Press controlled by tax evaders and privilege. They think they are above the Law. They are not. Leveson not even implemented. Although some did go to jail.

      The Westminster Gov is supposed to ensure a free and fair Press. It fails. Thatcher gave Murdoch illegal ownership of the Press for support, secretly. Then denied it. (Evans). Neil is just a Tory liar. Thatcher henchman. Told lies for the Thatcher Gov. Lies about Scotland. A total disgrace. The recording are still available.

    347. Tatu3 says:

      Some on here say all that is needed is for us to tell Nicola that we want independence and we will get it. How do we tell her?
      The marches get bigger and bigger, some say between 200,000 and 250,000 (Joanna Cherry figure) and that this gives us over this magical 3.5% red line.
      288,225 people have signed the Yes petition. Is that also counted as getting over the 3.5%?
      Some say that from Stu’s poll above that 90% of those polled will vote SNP and independence.
      Does NS read these polls? Does she come to the same conclusion? Does she with agree with this 3.5% red line? Is she of the mind now that we are telling her that we want independence?
      Some say that we should let her know by voting snp/snp. How can we when we are not given the chance to vote?

    348. Dorothy Devine says:

      I was quite enjoying the idea of a festival with floats , pipe bands , drummers , whistles and all sorts but as a celebration of our independence , which is comin’ yet for aw that.

      And then Breeks , you ruined my happy thoughts with your last depressing sentence.

      As for all the whining about our First Minister not attending , can you imagine the ‘media’ of Scotland ?

      It would be the SNP’s march not the People’s march and we all have at some time or another described the independence movement as a ‘ broad church’ with folk politically involved in all parties and those with no political involvement at all.

      So gie’s peace eh?

      May I also thank the organisers for their sterling work , the marches would not be happening without them.

      And a further thanks to all those folk who have uploaded memorable moments from the largest march for independence yet.

    349. Heart of Galloway says:

      I think there’s every chance the Outer House of the Court of Session will find in favour of Joanna Cherry et al and issue an order compelling BoJo to comply with the provisions of the Benn Act.

      If not, it will be down to the Inner House to rule on nobile officium the morn. The case was top story on BBC Scotland at 7.25am.

      Johnson today, according to reports, is to phone round EU leaders in a sordid attempt to gain traction for his *cough* proposals.

      This sleekiest of sleekly moves has incensed Macron, who rightly told Johnson that any overtures should be made to the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier..

      And yet BBC UK continues to pursue the narrative that it is the EU who are being intransigent, when all they are doing is following the rules.

      Often it’s a throwaway comment which gives the game away. One example from Friday stuck in my mind and it was Naga Munchetty – cutting away to Europe correspondent Adam Fleming, she said “after all the positivity yesterday, there seems to be a few dissenting voices today, especially from the EU…” The “positivity”, of course, was from the DUP and the ERG, not Europe.

      NM was of course referring to BoJo’s farcical offer to the EU which, in another example of blatant bias, the BBC persists in referring to boJo’s lunatic two-border plan for NI as a “deal” when it is no such feckin’ thing.

      It is a PROPOSAL and a manky fleabitten one at that, which was a dead parrot from the start.

      Nothing is beyond this dangerous bunch of charlatans.

      If Scotland unites behind the independence banner, we win all. Lay on, they fail!

    350. Terry callachan says:

      Hi Colin Alexander..

      You want Scottish independence
      But you want to go a different route from most people
      It’s OKAY to be different
      Your aspirations are sound

      To be honest with you I have to say that continually arguing the same single point over and over and over about Nicola Sturgeon and SNP trying to get a S30
      is pointless and is losing you credit

      Give up on repeating it over and over on wings
      For a while
      Retain your point of view
      But for now move onwards and upwards it’s been said a thousand times
      Join the discussion through another door
      Tell us your other thoughts and opinions for example what kind of things should get first priority once we are a new independent country
      One of inclusive participation

      You are a supporter of Scottish independence and are on the same side as other independence supporters so join in the agreeable discussion
      You have made your point about the SNP and NS going for a S30

      All the best here’s to Scottish independence we are getting stronger with all the variations within our country we will get there

    351. Ghillie says:

      Aw Breeks, you started well right enough.

      I did love your ‘Forest of Saltires’ 🙂

      But I do not share your dismal views otherwise.

      I AM elated by our Indy marches 🙂

      I AM elated to see thousands and thousands of like minded folk walking and wheeling all round about me and mine 🙂

      I AM elated by those who speak and sing and joke for us 🙂

      I AM elated by all the grand stalls laid on for us 🙂

      I AM elated to bump into old friends and meet new friends 🙂

      I AM elated to meet Edinburgh South’s new SNP MP candidate, Catriona MacGregor 🙂 (Ian Murray will not be so elated)

      I AM elated that I WILL be voting YES again very soon 🙂


    352. Patrick Roden says:

      It’s being reported in both the Herald and Daily Record today that the march has prompted a ‘Whitehall insider’ to warn that Boris Johnston is ‘not taking the threat of independence seriously enough’

      They also mention recent polling showing Yes at 52% and 49% and describe support for independence as ‘growing’

      These marches matter and the bigger they are the more worried the British Nationalists are becoming.

    353. Ken500 says:

      The easiest and best way to get Independence is to vote for it. The best time to have an IndyRef is when it can be won. One campaign at a time. 86% support for staying in the EU and stopping Brexit. EURef. 44% (massive 90% outcome) outright support GE. Then another IndyRef. Brexit will cause it. 52%++ and rising Independence support. Demographics. One campaign at a time. Prioritise for good management. A good strategy. Everything for which to play. Within two years. An S30 could be obtained through the Courts because Scotland has not been treated equally. Outvoted 10 to 1.

      Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Get another to vote as well.

    354. bookie from hell says:

      herald trashed marchers as ” raggedy, messy “fm best advised not to be seen with.

      looked more 100k (that’s very decent ) than 250k but pics/vid up the royal mile stunning


    355. Bob Mack says:

      What a time to be alive. This week,indeed fortnight will
      dictate possibly the future of these islands for decades to come.

      There is a pendulum swing. As I often hear from friends, sometimes people have to endure the blast of chilly reality before they decide which way to travel.

      Day by day thzt comes nearer.

    356. Johnny says:

      Realise that with the march at the weekend, they were probably being held back so as people would be around to see the article(s) but hoping to see more of the polling results soon….intriguing stuff!

    357. Chicmac says:

      New poll suggestion:

      A Prime Minister who can suspend parliament at will, can ignore/disobey laws passed by parliament and given royal assent and who can refuse to leave office even if faced with a vote of no confidence.

      o I’m happy with that, please lock me up.

      o It isn’t going to happen.

    358. Proud Cybernat says:

      Marches matter.

      They matter because all of those undecided, swithering voters on the pavements looking on as hundreds of thousands of Indy-supporting fellow Scots pass them by, they will be getting the message loud and clear that these marchers are determined buggers; they’ve never given up since 2014. Why are they so determined? Do they see something I’m missing? Maybe I should look into this indy thing a bit more.

      It gets the reluctant NOs, the voted NO with a heavy heart folks thinking. The massive and persistent presence of the YES marches normalises the idea of independence as a truly positive and viable alternative to the total shit-storm that’s heading our way when the good ship Brexitannia finally smashes into the rocks.

      We must not let up. We keep on marching. We keep on being positive. But not the happy-clappy, kumbaya, heid in the clouds positive. We get the positive economic message out there–that Scotland is big enough, smart enough and rich enough. And we have the facts to prove it. The only thing preventing the people of Scotland having a better life is WM. They have been screwing Scotland of all its resources for centuries and we must put that to an end.

      We keep marching.

    359. David P says:

      7 October, 2019 at 9:07 am

      A super post from Ghillie, and I share her elation. Independence IS coming.

      One small correction. The new SNP candidate for Edinburgh South is *Catriona MacDonald*, and she is a VERY impressive PPC.

      She has the potential to put Ian Murray in all sorts of trouble. And all I will say to that is:


    360. Ken500 says:

      Why people bother with the Herald is a mystery. Groundhog Day. The website ads (totally annoying) keep it going. Without comments no one would read it. Nonsense. Why do people keep it going? Misguidedly. Losing readership faster than a sieve loses water.Irrelevant. A wind up for click bait.

      The National is quite informative. Even just for notices. Needs support.

    361. galamcennalath says:

      IMO Johnson’s ‘deal offer’ to the EU was always a charade. The big deficiency is that the EU must insist that NI is in customs union with the EU. The ‘offer’ provides the opposite. Insurmountable difference. Johnson and team probably expected failure all along.

      Perhaps Plan A was to appear to be ‘forced’ into a no-deal exit. That’s been scuppered.

      In that case Plan B will be to be ‘forced’ into an extension so Johnson can go into the inevitable GE say ‘bad’ parliament forced this upon us, it wisnae oor fault. Then win a landslide on a promise of no-deal exit.

      A win win for Boris. Can he be stopped? Why bother!?

      Scotland now needs to gird its own loins.

    362. Clapper57 says:

      The Lib Dems are apparently using data to profile EVERY voter in UK ……….AND giving you a score !

      A lot of people are asking via data protection for them to release their individual data….hmm…remember Cambridge Analytica & Facebook… which prominent ex Lib Dem works for Facebook now…hmm

      WE..the voters..are being categorised !

      Sky news did a report :

      “The data used to create the scores comes from a range of sources, including the UK electoral register, phone and doorstep canvassing, anonymous online surveys, and publicly available data such as census area classifications, which categorise different regions according to their populations.

      The Liberal Democrats also employed “consumer/market research data”, which it bought from a third party. This information on lifestyle and financial behaviour is frequently used by political parties to target voters in specific areas.

      Asked about the purpose of the scores, the Liberal Democrats told Sky News they were used to decide which people would receive campaign leaflets”.

      Data protection law prohibits processing of “special categories of personal data”, including data on political affiliation, but grants political parties an exemption as long as there is “substantial public interest.

      However, data protection experts warned that the Liberal Democrats’ automated profiling fell into a legal grey area and could be challenged by the data watchdog, which is currently investigating political parties’ use of data”.

      “I’m at a loss to understand the lawful basis the Lib Dems have relied on for this,” said Pat Walshe, managing director of privacy matters.

      “The information commissioner’s office should look at this and investigate again the use of personal data by political parties, because that profiling is deeper and more intense than the average person would expect and understand.”

      Imagine everyone if the SNP were doing this….I wonder which party would be on their high horse….some people are very angry about this….and it should be a much BIGGER story….looks like the ‘UK’s (ahem) Biggest Remain party’ are not so different from the biggest Leave parties when it comes to ‘harvesting’ and ‘profiling’ voters via information and via this data collected targeting those specific voters to ‘get them on side with THEIR, Lib Dem, message’….follow the money…yet again…so whose paying for all of this ?

      They are indeed the Scavenger party…in more ways than one !

    363. Capella says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      6 October, 2019 at 4:09 pm
      Re Numbers and the reporting on yesterdays march, this might be why….

      Thx for the link. Very interesting article on the handful of billionaires who own the UK media. Plus, advertising revenue dictates editorial policy. Plus the spies masquerading as journalists. We live in Orwell’s grey dystopian world – apart from a few internet rays of light.

    364. Dr Jim says:

      Abandon the rules the miserable wee disrupters say, why should *we* obey the rules when *they* don’t moan the tiresome

      Stop asking for a section 30 order the stupid clown disrupters say

      First, the rules are there for all of us as evidenced by Joanna Cherry’s efforts
      Second, without rules there’s anarchy, that shouldn’t need explaining to any sane person
      Third, a section 30 order has never been formally requested, and the idiots who bang on about it know that

      But they do enjoy causing trouble and confusion in the minds of those who don’t

      There are a whole load of people out there who don’t believe in the same thing we do so if we don’t do it properly where does that leave our position in the future, and what kind of people does that make us look like

      The British might be doing their best to filter us out but the rest of the world is watching how we go about this and what kind of people they will have to deal with when Scotland becomes Independent

      The world is fed up with the British, they don’t like them, but they don’t want them replaced by a bunch of Scots behaving in the same way

    365. John Thomson says:

      Poll results pretty please

    366. schrodingers cat says:

      i agree with this, indy is now inevitable.

      what really disappoints me is the polls, although moving in the right direction, are still only at 49% for yes?

      I, and many others, including NS, miscalculated, we assumed there would be time after we knew definitively what brext actually meant, we would have time to hold indyref2 before we left the EU, when in fact the unionist tactic was to delay the actual final brexit outcome announcement until there was not enough time to hold indyref2, or a ge for that matter.

      although the cost of maintaining this position has led the unionists into a position of complete farce, the polls still remain at 49% for yes 🙁

      we need another 5-10% swing to yes to ensure independence

      my wife was in perth on the same day as the AUOB march, the council rerouted all of the local buses to the broxden roundabout (deliberately i believe) greatly inconveniencing the passsengers. most of whom were pensioners, our main demographic target. they were furious and were not shy in saying so on the day. upshot, we didnt win any converts from these people in perth!

      an extension to brexit may still happen, giving us the time to hold indyref2 before we officially leave the eu, but i am more and more convinced that the required swing will only happen when these people actually feel the effects of brexit. they have no jobs to lose and care little for the plight of immigrants or those who are losing etc. only when they feel the effects will they stop and think. thats when we should hold indyref2.

      to that end, since 72% of over 65’s are no’s, i would remove their bus passes, free medication, health care etc, we can do thi and blame the tories, even if it isnt their fault/responsability, after all, they do this to us?

    367. galamcennalath says:

      Totally OT. Sad to hear Ginger Baker has passed away RIP.

      Probably my favourites as a teen. An SNP and Indy supporting teen. Jeez, I did not think then that 50 years later independence would still not have happened. Soon now, though.

    368. Colin Alexander says:

      Dr Jim

      Ms Cherry went to court to uphold the law. The court established what the law is.

      What’s the law regarding Scottish self-determination? Tell me the court ruling to prove me wrong.

      What’s the law regarding legally dissolving the Union?

      What’s the law regarding whether a S30 Order is required or not?

      Has any SNP or Scot Govt personnel established what the law says? No.

      Aye the SNP are playing by the Colonial master’s rules. That’s what colonial administrators do.

      Are those rules the law? A court has never ruled on that matter.

    369. Ghillie says:

      Happily corrected!

      Catriona MacDonald!!

      Catriona MacDonald is our new SNP MP candidate for Edinburgh South 🙂

      Edinburgh South, the hardest nut to crack…and the cracks are showing 🙂

      Ian Murray, no doubt now wishing he had never donned THAT unionjack suit.

      Catriona MacDonald.

      A name to remember 🙂

    370. Dr Jim says:

      You’re a childish Arse @Colin Alexander and folk see right through you for what you are

    371. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Dr Jim

      You can’t debate without resorting to personal insults.

      Why don’t you call me a “girly swot” or “big girl’s blouse” anaw?

      That’s about your level.

      The SNP’s answer to Boris Johnson.

    372. dadsarmy says:

      Dr Jim is very wrong to call you a childish Arse. What he could have said is that your monumentally absurd and meaninglessly diseased rambling postings resemble the faecal waste matter of 100 extinct Diplodocusses, 50 T.Rex’s and 5,000 Dodo’s, somehow kept steamingly fresh and odoursome.

      But that doesn’t make you a “childish Arse”.

    373. I am nearly dizzy reading huge chunks,I feel like i have been reading a replacement for “War and Peace” I too was on the march/walk,I could not believe the numbers.My honest estimation was over 250.000 that was marching, about the same cheering from the sides,and how many waiting at the Meadows?The comments are good,some funny,some more serious,and all heart felt.We have to be kept in the dark,that means the others in the dark,(not knowing themselves what to say.I will be surprised if anything new.They are selective,manipulative,divide and conquer,two faced thieves.”Better Together for WHOM??Broad Shoulders with pads,Scotland in “CORRUPT UNION” How to get dark money for bribery!!!

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