Mightier than the sword
As we noted last week, Eton- and Sandhurst-educated Sir Norman Arthur, figurehead of the No campaign’s latest high-powered grassroots fundraising drive, has a very impressive military record – Commanding Officer of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, Commander of the 7th Armoured Brigade, General Officer Commanding of the 3rd Armoured Division, General Officer Commanding of Scotland and mentioned in despatches during the Troubles in Northern Ireland in the 1970s.
It’s just lucky the IRA didn’t have Twitter, or things might have been different.
The details published were already freely available in Who’s Who, and had been sent out in unsolicited letters (peppered with lurid language about British blood flowing in war) from Sir Norman to strangers, begging them for money for a political campaign.
To then complain that they were made slightly more public is a bizarre reaction – after all, the entire letter was published alongside them, spreading his appeal for cash significantly wider than it would otherwise have achieved. It’s quite odd to object to someone “publicising” your own advertisements.
But concern for the former high-ranking Army officer’s delicate sensibilities isn’t why the Telegraph has highlighted the issue, of course. We’re pretty sure Sir Norman endured worse on the streets of Belfast in the 70s than being told to “shut the f*** up”.
(It’s interesting how extremely cagily the Telegraph words its account of the emails. Firstly, “around half a dozen”? Who can’t be bothered to make an accurate count of roughly six things? Similarly, “some” were abusive and contained expletives? How many? Is it too difficult to tell us whether it was two, or three, or one? Was “shut the f*** up” the worst thing anyone said? If we called the police every time someone told us to “shut the f*** up” we’d never be off the phone.)
The objective of the story, naturally, is to perpetuate the myth of the “vile cybernats”, now viciously intimidating the war-hero elderly in their relentless questing after, in Sir Norman’s words, “splitting kith from kin and wounding a nation which has achieved so much for its people and given so greatly to the world”.
(At this point we were put suddenly and inexplicably in mind of a couple of images we saw at the Cartoon Museum in London on our trip to see the First Minister’s lecture for the New Statesman on Tuesday, and which you’ll find adorning this post.)
The ex-Governor of Edinburgh Castle is quite right that there have already been “unacceptable personal attacks” as a result of the referendum campaign. At least, we know of one – a gentleman of around Sir Norman’s age who had his wrist broken in broad daylight on an Edinburgh street by a middle-aged Unionist woman who took offence at his Yes placard.
Last year also saw considerable violence perpetrated on UK soil by people acting in defence of the Union and its flag. Yet in the media, only one side has “a notorious wing”, and bafflingly it’s not the one that physically assaults old men or attacks and injures dozens of police officers.
Frankly, given the choice, we’d rather someone just told us to shut the f*** up.
I tried to post on that Maily Telegraph story but it appears I am banned from posting.
I think I know who had that done.
As I tried to post on the Telegraph, the last time I heard “Kith and Kin” in a newspaper was regarding the white settlers in Southern Rhodesia.
Looks like a JAK cartoon?
Now, if the Rev Stu was a real cybernat he’d change his name to the Rev StFu.
I can only hope Sir Norman Arthur, who appears very willing to publish his personal details to complete strangers, isn’t funding various activities in Nigeria, or pursuing a lottery win in some far off country.
On opening my curtains this morning I was astonished to see that a mountain had appeared in my back garden overnight.
On closer inspection, it turned out to be a molehill.
I’ve had my account suspended twice for shooting down Duncan Hothersall’s arguments in detail in 140 characters or less.
He doesn’t like it.
As for the story above….
What a lot of welll….cock! really….
If Captain Waggett wants to advertise his address and phone number by appearing in Who’s Who then firing off letters asking for a financial digout from rich strangers, can he be surprised when people contact him? When he posted his begging missive, was he hoping no-one would get in touch? In which case, apart from keeping the Royal Mail in business, what was the guy posting his letters for? “I say, darling, I think I’ll have another Pimms.”
Strange also that the whole http://www.martinfrost.ws site has disappeared from the web. It took me all of 20 seconds to find the General’s who’s who entry on the night MacDougall started his manufactured outrage campaign against Roseanna Cunningham.
There’s never any derogatory word of the centuries old oppression of the Scottish Nation, forced emigration or compulsory service in a foreign military.
Presumably Scots are just to be treated as Africans were.
So we can safely conclude that Norrie didn’t receive any threatening e-mails at all, because if he had then surely the Telegraph would have printed them.
Made up story.
I have never seen anyone in Scotland reading,buying or carrying a Daily Telegraph. Hardly likely that this Tory rag is going to influence the indyref debate.
Soooo
He received half a dozen emails and somebody (one person perhaps) was a tad intemperate.
Not exatcly the siege of Khartoum is it?
Personally I would counsel against sending personal emails. Putting the boot into the argument in public is much more fun.
Daily Telegraph gives out details of Sir Norman’s address and personal family details.
link to announcements.telegraph.co.uk
I am shocked.
“Firstly, “around half a dozen”? Who can’t be bothered to make an accurate count of roughly six things? ”
That’s why I love this site. I see something like this and just see red, and frequently miss those little touches of the absurd.
I saw this brewing up on Twitter the other night and alluded to it here. Blair McLiar nearly peed himself with excitement. I bet he even took a screen grab of the debacle. I certainly did.
Not being in possession of a copy of Who’s Who I was able to check the name, phone number, and address including post code were accurate and not a spoof as some people were suggesting
How can you complain when all this information is freely available to the public?
I’d personally be more ashamed that I had to draft in octogenarians to be for money in the first place. No offence to any oldies around here (we’re all getting there).
scunnered
This is too much like a Monty Python sketch.
Sir Norm is a director of a nursery dahn saff. he has a London address for that.
http://companycheck.co.uk/director/916687342/NORMAN–ARTHUR/director-summary#basic-information
of course being a vile cybernat, I’m just making the assumption its the same 80 year old bloke.
Obviously Sir Norman needs an army to fight his battles.
@gillie
A cartoon of King Norman Arthur and the nits of the round table should cover it it. Blair McDougall as Sir Lies-a-lot, etc.
The referendum is really a class struggle, in that teamGB elitists are struggling to show any.
“The unavoidably apocalyptic effect of a Yes vote on Scotland’s currency and the wellbeing of its people cannot be overstated.”
Apologies for going off topic so early, but the letter in today’s Herald, that follows the undoubtedly zingy opening line quoted above, deserves commendation for managing to cram virtually every scare story ever reported in the Daily Mail into one short and concise missive, and to assert that they will all, without question, actually happen. Chap from Balfron, direct descendant of Corporal Fraser, I guess.
link to heraldscotland.com
Anyway, the letter is crying out to be shadowed, with the judicious alteration of a few words here and there, for instance substituting the word beneficial for apocalyptic, and so on. Can someone cleverer than me (Rev Stu?
)have a go and perhaps submit it for publication tomorrow?
(Apologies for the direct link, Archive.is just returns an error report when I tried to save it)
Shut the f*** up.
(Why has nobody done this yet?)
Not one death has resulted in the Scottish cause since the SNP was formed. Pity the same cannot be said about the Brits behaviour in Eire and Northern Eire.
Looks like the Telegraph use the same abacus as Gideon.
What did he get mentioned in dispatches for in Northern Ireland?
Would it be for taking a rude phone call from an irate nationalist pensioner?
Sir Norman Arthur can always call upon Rona Dougall to protect him from all those viperous nats. It worked well for Alistair Carmichael.
If all independence supporters are thugs and fascists. Does that include Sean Connery,Alan Cumming,George Keravan,Margo MacDonald,Patrick Harvie,Denis Cannavan,Brian Cox,Mohamsa Yusef,Lady MacDonald….Does that sound like a bunch of knuckle draggers. Meanwhile on the other side. Nigel Farage,The Orange Order,John Barrowman,Scottish Defence league…I know who i would rather share a cup of tea with.
You never know perhaps Sir Norman has never heard or read the ‘f’ word before. It could have been too much for his privately-schooled brain.
You can see where the Better Together/Unionist/English media strategy is headed.
There will be more of these baseless stories which attempt to prove that those seeking independence are just a minority of hate inspired bigots.
There were hints a few days ago in the English media that the fascists capitalising on the power vacuum in Ukraine would be emulated in Scotland.
British Flag waving thugs in Northern Ireland & rampaging anarchists & looters across cities in England apparently don’t count as example of breakdowns in civil behaviour or a loss of respect for British law & order.
Instead, the English media focuses on a couple of allegedly abusive emails or twitter feeds with which to amplify a theme to reinforce their own Scottish prejudices.
I don’t approve of any behaviour that causes fear in anyone by any means & that includes examples promulgated by the likes of Blair (The most distrusted man in politics) McDougall, Alistair (Flipper) Darling & Gordon (End of boom & bust) Brown.
Perhaps the good General would be better off sending out a letter to rally the troops to help Tory Rory’s hands across the border (non)event. What this reminds me of is that old comedy programme Fairly Secret Army where Geoffrey Palmer’s barmy Major Harry Kitchener Wellington Truscott (ex Queen’s Own West Mercian Lowlanders) tries to recruit locals into a paramilitary organisation.
1st minister questions today
a sword would of been more merciful on labour tax attack meltdown
Roddy Macdonald – yes, I had a look – www,martinfrost.ws has disappeared. However, it is well represented in the wayback machine (web.archive.org) and the generals Whos Who details are easily seen:
link to bit.ly
I note above that the General’s details were listed on at least one website which has apparently disappeared. Never fear, Dumfries &Galloway Council still oblige:
link to info.dumgal.gov.uk
Roddy MacDonald says “Strange also that the whole http://www.martinfrost.ws site has disappeared from the web”
It is still really really easy to find Sir Norman’s address on google. A seven year old could find it in under 10 seconds. If you type Sir Norman Arthur Dalbeattie into google his address and phone number appear instantly in the results, still attached to the Martin Frost site. Sir Norman is a hypocrite for claiming his security has been compromised, if he really cared he would have had it removed from the Martin Frost site ages ago or at least got his phone number ex directory.
Also, it is a bit rich of him to be complaining about his address being published when he himself is writing scrounging letters to strangers whose address he has obtained from Who’s Who.
And to think that this fanny used to have the power to send brave young Scots soldiers to their death.
Reminds me of that WW1 phrase, “Lions led by Donkeys”.
If this story escalates out of control we are in severe danger of witnessing some very serious finger wagging, and we don’t want that do we ?
Can’t we all just think of the children for goodness sakes….
…aa…nd relax
Also been tryin to find out where this Lionheart General was born, but can’t find any details on him.
A War Hero?….Shut the F**k up!!
O/T anyone seen this it was below some picture of james cordon apparently nuclear reactors are fecked
link to bbc.co.uk
Sir Norman Arthur the general who feels naked without his privates.
OT
Some breaking story on the state broadcaster regards a radiation leak at Dounreay involving a nuclear sub reactor.
Good auld Phil Hammond says no danger, move along now, nothing to see, at least, according to said dodgy broadcaster and purveyor of honest and factual news to the Scottish masses.
When i was in the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards i was in Edinburgh castle,i was their for the tatto,i was up in the stands watching a rehersal and noticed two officers standing on the parade ground,after the rehersal was finished they turned and started walking,one of the officers was in the RSDG and the other wasent but i had served with him in the Gulf war,he seen me and shouted up still the best calvary regement in europe,i said yes sir and still the worst lead.
A hero who once outfaced rabid
nationaliststerrorists around the globe, now terrified by the Cybernats? What has the Empire come to?Somehow it makes me think of “Carry on Up the Kybernat”.
Ooh my, the cybernat army is up to (nearly) half-a-dozen in strength now.
We’ll maybe have a football team by September 18th – that should be the tipping point!
Think I’ll shut the f*** up now
Russian newsreader resigns on air in protest at Russian interference in Ukraine. That’s having convictions and courage well done!
All we want is the truth, our newsreaders on EBC just get on their knees and read the script. To thine self be true!
Been on there [DT] all morning.
Going for a shower and a pint now.
Time for everybody to calm down.
Even if Norman Arthur’s details were available in Who’s Who, there was no need for anyone to give them the much greater currency of circulation on Twitter. Whoever posted the letter on Twitter should simply have redacted his address, as a courtesy that should be extended to anyone.
Publishing someone’s home address doesn’t improve the debate, and can be abused by eejits.
The Telegraph should also calm down. “2 or 3 rude emails to person who enters public arena on highly contentious issue” is a pope-is-catholic-story.
I can assure you that based on personal experience the General will have had a lot worse verbal abuse than that directed at his when he was at Sandhurst.
The routine form of address I was familiar with was “you ‘orrible little jock c**t”. And that’s when the colour sergeants were being nice.
@MajorBloodnok,11.48, RevStu, is that like TOFU, Ah prefer the
REV the way he is A Futon ( that is a FOOT ON THE NECK of BT
& Westminster ) an nae layin doon on that futon Rev, there,s
nae sleep fur the wicked,that,s me included.
do you like it Sir day ye, boom boom.
Project Fear which has continued unabated for a well over a year now is much more of a threat than that suffered by sir Norm.
If you take part in the debate on either side then you must expect to take a bit of flak.
Missed FMQ this morning about to see it on Holyrood Site. Finally here is that goal for footie fans. it was so good that there were no words to describe it… well on the BBC.
link to bbc.co.uk
It seems civilian life is too rough and tough for Sir Norman.
He needs to man up to take on social media.
The Telegraph only has about 18,500 circ in Scotland and many of those will be free copies left in hotels, airports et al. Thus it is TOTALLY irrelevant to the INDY debate. That’s what pisses off its ‘reporters’, who have a much overblown sense of their own importance. And to misquote another well known phrase, ‘there are more ‘Scottish Editors’on the Telegraph than readers.’ How do the Barclay Boys afford them?
The British Empire copied the Roman Empire model. Aggression and force to take land / put loyal sycophants in to hold control / suck the wealth and send to Rome / recruit the locals and send them to enslave someone else.
All the commonwealth countries suffered due to the legacy put in place by a departing Whitehall policy of poisining the well.
However the worst has always been saved for home. Ireland and the remaining legacy. Lowlander against Highlander. Divide and rule.
They also appear to have a need to have someone to look down on or take advantage of.
The Empire is gone. We do not wish to lay down our lives for “English” officers.
That seat at the top table does not seem important to most of us.
Educating and feeding children seems a more worthy pursuit.
A handful of Scots made a great deal of money from this Empire. That is the shame our nation has to bear that we took part in the exploitation of the world.
This notion of greed being good and the need to be able to threaten others is objectionable.
….enough!
Here Stu, I see the Wings on Tour programme’s been solved. Gordon Brown’s picking the venues and doing the warm-up/support act thing. He’ll draw a good crowd for you. I’m sure you can answer the hostile audience he leaves behind.
@Tattie-bogle
I’m surprised they allowed that story to be printed, considering that it’s the sort of thing that’ll give more ammunition to the people who want those subs gone from Scotland.
I’m sure even the No voters won’t be too quick to believe BT’s likely response to this. Probably something along the lines of: “But radiation is good for you, gives you a nice healthy glow! And according to comics, you may also develop super-powers!”
The real reason they keep them up here is that in the event of them suffering a nasty accident with one of those reactors, any leakage of radioactive material will be kept nice and far away from London. Can’t have glowing sherry and tiaras now, can we?
I actually think he has a point, that it isn’t very clever publishing the details of ex service people, but the point is, it was his own good self who did it in the first place. That’s what PO Boxes are all about. Rather than a witchunt after Rev Stu, he’d be much better advised to acknowledge his own error of judgement and actually thank the site for redacting his details.
It isn’t really a laughing matter, because imagine if those thugs from Northern Island who threatened Nicola Sturgeon and turned up outside her constituency office had been in possession of her home address.
It’s not the fault of Wings if this old soldier has forgotten his fieldcraft and the art of camouflage.
@ Big Jock; “Not one Death…”, Hmm, perhaps you should find out about Willie Macrae.
@Big Jock 12:26pm
An interesting sideshow with the Orange Order. There’s a Twitter account @orangemen4indy that indicates some support from that side of the debate. Also note that their twitter assigned avatar is green :-X
Gorman: Look, we can’t have any firing in there. I, uh… I want you to collect magazines from everybody.
Hudson: Is he fucking crazy?
Frost: What the hell are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language?
Nope, not even that…
Maybe the good General Blimp will now follow the example of Susan Calman, claim to have had death threats posted on his website, then swiftly take it down when people access the site to verify his allegation, before they discover no such threats were made.
At least he hasn’t had Ian Davidson threatening to give him “a doing” yet.
Well said Clootie
“Well said Clootie”
Plus one.
call me dave @ 1:24
Thanks for the link, I’d given up on it appearing on the BBC, cracking goal. I saw a very poor quality version on STV last night courtesy of the Daily Retard feed.
Now, as the World Cup is during the 16 week ‘equal coverage’ period, can we expect reruns of old Scotland games as right-of-reply to all the coverage of Engurrland?
Aye, we need an Eton educated laddie to take command of those Jocks. Hope the “mentioned in dispatches ” wasn’t for Bloody Sunday, remembering the death rate of Scots in the First War was OVER twice that of the English and Welsh.
The story is over on the BT FB page worth a look (remember to wash your hands when you leave their site
):
link to facebook.com
It’s the usual in this country if you don’t support the British Military you are a coward and a ("Tractor" - Ed). Well I don’t support them and i will wear a white poppy it’s a free world.
“Fetch the Constabulary! Someone’s just called me a ninny.”
Scottish minister apologises
link to bbc.co.uk
Ignore the ‘Telegraph’ and the feart insane military factor, everyone else’s does, IQ!s on certain spectrums, lead to some who do not have good social skills. They cannot related, or have empathy or sympathy, with others. These people appear ignorant, arrogant, authoritarian and regimented, bordering on the insane. Especially when they start to believe their own publicity, and have an inflated view of their own importance. They milk the purse purse believing it is their entitlement.
They are more to be pitied, because they can’t help it. It’s genetic. They often have to be restrained or contained because they are a danger to others.
To be read in a German accent:
Und eef you don’t surrender Tommy, ve vill shout rude vords at you and publish your name unt address in Der Spiegel!
(Cue maniacal laughter!
HA HA HA!
* Unionists milk the public purse, believing it to be their entitlement.
“It’s the usual in this country if you don’t support the British Military you are a coward and a ("Tractor" - Ed). Well I don’t support them and i will wear a white poppy it’s a free world.”
@Big Jock, and others.
Whenever anyone spouts off about ‘we fought wars together etc.’ I always tell them this.
About how Churchill drew up plans to betray Scotland in the second world war. It’s handy ammunition.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@bookie from hell says:
Scottish minister apologises
link to bbc.co.uk
Cybernat-of-the-month award goes to Roseanna.
link to m.youtube.com
The Duke of Plaza-Toro
In enterprise of martial kind,
When there was any fighting,
He led his regiment from behind
(He found it less exciting).
But when away his regiment ran,
His place was at the fore, O-
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underrated
Nobleman,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
In the first and foremost flight, ha, ha!
You always found that knight, ha, ha!
That celebrated,
Cultivated,
Underrated
Nobleman,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
When, to evade Destruction’s hand,
To hide they all proceeded,
No soldier in that gallant band
Hid half as well as he did.
He lay concealed throughout the war,
And so preserved his gore, O!
That unaffected,
Undetected,
Well connected
Warrior,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
In every doughty deed, ha, ha!
He always took the lead, ha, ha!
That unaffected,
Undetected,
Well connected
Warrior,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
When told that they would all be shot
Unless they left the service,
That hero hesitated not,
So marvellous his nerve is.
He sent his resignation in,
The first of all his corps, O!
That very knowing,
Overflowing,
Easy-going
Paladin,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
To men of grosser clay, ha, ha!
He always showed the way, ha, ha!
That very knowing,
Overflowing,
Easy-going
Paladin,
The Duke of Plaza-Toro!
William Schwenck Gilbert
http://thescottishscaremonger.blogspot.co.uk
Oh, that poor, poor man. Imagine, having “half a dozen” emails sent to you, some of them apparently quite rude, one asking him to “shut the **** up.”
I feel so sorry for him living in a country where this can happen. This country, where 870,000 people are too poor for basic necessities, one in three children are living in poverty, thousands have died within six months of losing their benefits, children are effectively imprisoned because they weren’t born here, more infants die than anywhere else in the developed world, and men in Glasgow have a lower life expectancy than several warzones. BUT A BRITISH GENERAL HAS TO DEAL WITH SOME NAUGHTY WORDS AFTER PUTTING HIS CONTACT DETAILS INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
TRULY, THIS IS THE POINT WHERE I QUESTION WHETHER BRITAIN IS THAT GREAT.
My heart BLEEDS for him. Rivulets of blood. British blood, of course.
I’m glad Captain Waggett only had to put up with “around” half a dozen emails. Imagine his upset if he’d been at Stalingrad!
@ Breeks
Agree that any ex-service personnel, especially those who have served in Northern Ireland, are idiots to have their name, address and service history anywhere in the public domain.
Agree that any ex-service personnel, especially those who have served in Northern Ireland, are idiots to have their name, address and service history anywhere in the public domain.
Particularly since he published him in the Telegraph when he announced his engagement
brian monteith—tory
link to edinburghnews.scotsman.com
Wow, you all get so over-excited at the opportunity to make a totally unrelated issue into yet another rather pathetic and chippy little class rant. Personally I think my Dad, General Arthur, was correct in bringing to light that childish attempt at whipping up a personal cyber attack against him. I can’t believe that none of you seem to see the difference; Gen. Arthur couldn’t give a rats ass that his address was printed (point in question being the publishing of my Mother’s obituary, his engagement, Who’s Who etc), what he found trying was the way and the reason why it was included. Surely one or two of you can see the difference in publishing: “I’m thrilled to be getting hitched next week” signed Mr Jones of 1 First St, Glasgow’ and ‘This stupid wa**er, Mr Jones, should be attacked for his beliefs & this is where he lives: 1 First St, Glasgow…. That is why Gen. Arthur took it further – the context in which his address was given out! …..But then you wouldn’t have had the chance to attack someone because you THINK he’s had it easier/more privileged than you. He is simply nothing like the arrogant, spoilt toff many of you naively assume him to be (because of the upbringing he is deeply grateful for), in fact a more altruistic, philanthropic person I’m yet to meet. Regardless of my relationship to him, I respect his fundamental kindness to his fellow man totally support his bringing to light an example of adult bullying, and just feel sad that none of you are open minded enough to see what this is actually about.
“Personally I think my Dad, General Arthur, was correct”
It’s not strictly relevant to anything, but it’s really, really weird to refer to your dad as “General Arthur”. I don’t refer to my dad as “Mr Campbell”.
“Gen. Arthur couldn’t give a rats ass that his address was printed”
It rather sounds as if he does.
“Surely one or two of you can see the difference in publishing: “I’m thrilled to be getting hitched next week” signed Mr Jones of 1 First St, Glasgow’ and ‘This stupid wa**er, Mr Jones, should be attacked for his beliefs & this is where he lives:”
Absolutely NOBODY that I’m aware of said your dad “should be attacked”. We blacked out his address details anyway.
“But then you wouldn’t have had the chance to attack someone because you THINK he’s had it easier/more privileged than you.”
All we did was point out that it was a little odd for such a decorated soldier with service in some genuinely dangerous places to be making such a fuss about a couple of people calling him a bawbag on the internet. One might think that a man who’d faced down the IRA might be a little harder to “bully”.