Low-information voter of the day
We should point out in advance that we’re using the word “voter” quite wrongly here. But a piece in today’s Daily Record has us beaten all ends up for wrongness.
The article’s headline, “Texas singer Sharleen Spiteri: I wouldn’t vote for Scottish Independence”, is entirely accurate – the 1980s pop star lives in London and won’t be voting in the referendum. Her reasoning, though, is a touch unexpected.
“The 45-year-old, who was rushed to hospital with concussion last month after she fell while filming a video, believes that Scotland would crumble if it decided to go it alone.
She said: “As far as I’m concerned, I’m British. And, yeah, I’m Scottish but I feel I’m part of the UK. I think it’s very important to have a Scottish government who make decisions for Scotland but I can’t understand how Scotland would survive independently. We don’t have the resources – like oil and gas – we’d need to keep Scotland afloat.“
Now, admittedly we’ve just got up and haven’t checked ALL the papers yet, but we’re reasonably sure Scotland is in fact still awash in enough oil to prop up the economy for several decades. If it had run out last night, we feel all but certain we’d have heard about it. And possibly Ms Spiteri’s opinion has been affected by her concussion injury. But the rest of the article is somewhat on the dubious side too.
“The I Don’t Want a Lover singer joined the likes of Ewan McGregor, Billy Connolly, Primal Scream frontman Bobby Gillespie and Sir Alex Ferguson who have nailed their colours to the No mast.”
That news came as quite a surprise to us. Sir Alex Ferguson, of course, is a fervent proponent of the Union. But we couldn’t recall the others expressing such opinions as could be described as “nailing their colours to the No mast”. So we got investigating.
Billy Connolly, most recently in the news for unleashing a foul-mouthed tirade at an official photographer and forgetting his lines onstage, was reported in the Herald in December as having “vowed to stay out of political discussions” on the subject.
The paper noted “Connolly has been vocal in his disapproval of Scottish independence in the past, but admitted that 2012 has been ‘a very interesting time for Scotland'”, and quoted his current views as altogether more ambiguous:
“I don’t like showbusiness people lecturing the public on how they should vote anyway. I’ve always found that a kind of precocious state, and I’ve done it before you know, and when I look back at some of the things I’ve said I feel kind of stupid.’
I would like to know with these things, these master moves, how much it’s going to cost the people to do this, do they need another layer of government, and how it’s going to affect the average person, the average Joe. Is it going to affect his life? If it’s for the better, it’s up to him. But Scots are very capable of making up their mind without my tuppence worth.”
Leaving aside for a moment that creating “another layer of government” is the precise OPPOSITE of what independence is seeking to achieve, we’re not sure we’d describe that position as someone “nailing their colours to the No mast”. Who’s next?
We’re big Primal Scream fans here at WingsLand, and we thought we’d have noticed if the band’s frontman Bobby Gillespie had come out in favour of the Union. The singer’s political views are firmly on the left, but he hasn’t had much to say on independence – the only reference we could find anywhere was in another Record piece from last month, in which he took aim at the entire body politic of the UK.
“At the moment, this Coalition Government is crushing the poorest sections of society and the cuts keep coming. It is class war. Someone like Thatcher would have loved to have done this, but she couldn’t do it in the late 70s or early 80s because the trade union movement was huge.
There was an organised opposition but this government doesn’t have an opposition. It’s not coming from a Labour Party that also serves corporate interests and isn’t going to represent working class or disadvantaged people.
Everybody has been hammered, not just the Scottish. We can’t be nationalistic about it. Nationalism has never done it for me. It leads to fascism. Ultimately, someone like Alex Salmond manipulates people’s national pride and insecurities but he is obviously a power-mad kind of guy.”
So Bob doesn’t like the Tories, Lib Dems, Labour, or the SNP. But independence is about more than the SNP – the Greens, Scottish Socialists and others are regularly at pains to point out that their support for independence isn’t “nationalist”.
Gillespie’s objections to “nationalism”, then, don’t exactly amount to the rallying cry for the Union that the Record claims, even allowing for the fact that in the week a new SNP MSP was sworn into the Scottish Parliament in French, he seems a little mixed up between the ethnic and civic forms to say the least. (And as another London resident, he also won’t be voting in the referendum anyway.)
And what of Ewan McGregor? The sole quote from him in the Record article is “I love Scotland with all my heart. But I also like the idea of Great Britain”. Which is all very nice, but “Great Britain” won’t be going anywhere if Scotland votes for independence – it’s a geographical entity, not a political one.
So we had a look to see if we could find a fuller version of the quote. It didn’t take long.
Again, it seems to fall some distance short of anything being nailed to a mast.
Of the Record’s five alleged No-camp flagwavers, four live outside Scotland and won’t be voting, and three have made statements which are, at best, non-committal. We’re not at all convinced that that makes them “a growing number of Scotland’s most influential celebrities who have come out publicly and backed the No campaign”.
Indeed, given the Record’s past desperation when it came to claiming well-known Scottish people for the Union, we might be inclined to suggest that it had resorted to flat-out lying to its readers.
I understand that this is controversial given that Alex Ferguson is in the middle of being beatified but he doesn’t even seem to know the population of Scotland to within 25% – even after he corrects himself…
link to michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com
Spiteri also informs us in the article:
“We have soft water in Scotland, so you can have a bath with loads of bubbles and your skin feels like silk when you come out”
Wrong Charlene, that soft water is a hugely volatile resource which Scots, if they are foolish enough to vote for self-determination, will not know how to handle. So best get used to your London bath.
Am I allowed to say that Texas were very disappointing on Later with Jools Holland, very dated music with Ms Spiteri struggling in projecting her voice, as I don’t want to be called a cyber-bully or be deemed rude.
Presumably their defence will be that the “growing number” headline is accurate because 2 is greater than 1. Ms Spiteri’s comment about lack of resources is truly spectacular though – along with her assertion that uniquely in all the world, Scotland would crumble. Cringeworthy.
Am I allowed to say that Texas were very disappointing on Later with Jools Holland
I don’t think there’s any place in the debate for those sort of death threats.
“I don’t think there’s any place in the debate for those sort of death threats.”
I might just award Comment Of The Day before lunchtime 😀
“soft water is a hugely volatile resource which Scots, if they are foolish enough to vote for self-determination, will not know how to handle. So best get used to your London bath.”
On the other hand, strong competition 😀
“I think it’s very important to have a Scottish government who make decisions for Scotland”
hmm
Living in England if your a casual consumer of politics about Scotland it is so easy to be mislead by the MSM about the Independence debate. I’m not surprised by some of views of scots artist living in London. Scrape away the thin crust of anti-independence debate and its got a rotten core. As the REV says low voter information.
Given that Salmond is the closest thing to Cincinnatus in the history of Scottish politics, where does the “Power-mad” nonsense come from, part from abuse by CyberSlab politicans?
I’m afraid that I can top this. As I have mentioned before I have a friend that visits occasionally he is a shop steward in the GMB lets call him Rab. (Apologies for the blanked out swearwords. Also text abbreviated for convenience!)
Rab came to visit me on Tuesday evening. I have been pushing indy at him for months. His first statement on arriving was.
Rab- Watched newsnight last night (extended indy debate) I thought that yous were doing great till that arsehole from the SNP F****d it up.
Me- What are you talking about?
Rab- The SNP guy declared that he was a republican. There is no way that I would vote for someone so right wing! The SNP is full of them.
Me- (With penny beginning to drop) The SNP guy was in fact from the Green party. And he is entitled to be a republican if he wants nothing wrong with that.
Rab- Are you joking a f*****g republican?
Me- (with second penny fast descending) He is a republican because he is against the monarchy!
Rab- What the F***k has that got to do with it?
Me- (Looking up oxford dictionary to present to Rab) Definition of a republican is someone who supports that the people or their representatives are sovereign as opposed to a monarch! Not a right wing American politician!
Rab- Now getting rather embarrassed. “That’s it there is no F****g way I will vote indy. In fact I am going to campaign for the union!
What can you do with such an attitude? Sometimes I do despair. An informed debate, I wish.
So, 5 weel-kent unionists (or not). Meanwhile, on the independence side…
link to nationalcollective.com
link to yesscotland.net
The MSM will always misconstrue the facts this should be no surprise to anyone! But what really bugs me is they bring out all these big stars who supposedly want us to stay in the union! Who gives a shit? They don’t live here, so aren’t eligible to vote! They should keep their damned opinions to themselves!
@The Man in the Jar
That just beggars belief – he hates right wingers so his solution is to support a campaign that is being funded by the Tories and which could help keep a right-wing Tory government imposing right-wing policies on himself, his family, his friends, his country.
You’re right, there’s no way to argue with a complete eejit.
It would appear from her comments she has spent too much time in her bubble bath not only will her fingers and toes be wrinkled her brain must be too
I know the remark about oil and gas is attributed to her but surely she could not have said that as a serious comment, if she did it would be better for her to stick to what she does for a living and not show how ignorant she is
-The link to the Bobby Gillespie/Daily Record article takes you to a football piece (Hibs/Killie for those interested); I remember reading it at the time though, seemed pretty certain to me at the time that Bobby was definitely NOT pro-Indy.
@The Man in the Jar
On the other hand, he did listen to the debate and it seems he thought the Indi side were making good points. Maybe he’ll actually go away and think about some of them once he stops being mad at being shown up.
Now, now Ms Spiteri is entitled to have an opinion. Uninformed, vague, out of touch with events and facts, but still her own opinion. 😉
BBC Scotlandshire could have a field day with this.
I just cannot, for the life of me, figure out why Sharlene Spiteri thinks Scotland doesn’t have oil and gas. We had it when she lived here – it’s not as though we’ve just discovered it since she left. Was she definitely being serious?
Maybe I’m just getting a bit paranoid in my old age, but this story about Sharlene Spiteri is bizarre enough that I’m just a bit worried that it might be a cynical attempt by the Daily Record to set up another “Calmangate” situation. Be careful how you respond, just in case.
“Be careful how you respond, just in case.”
It really doesn’t matter how we respond – the Unionists will just make stuff up anyway. Check out our most dedicated reader, Duncan Hothersall, tweeting ridiculous bullshit about it within seconds of publication:
“Celebrity expresses view on #indyref. Bath-based blogging “media monitor” launches cheap ad hominem attack. #ThePositiveCase #yesscot”
link to twitter.com
“The link to the Bobby Gillespie/Daily Record article takes you to a football piece (Hibs/Killie for those interested)”
Buh? Not for me it doesn’t.
@Jeaniie
Agree but it was Rabs willingness to find fault in the SNP / Independence movement that worries me. It is typical Labour attitude around here (Labour MP Labour MSP Labour Council) This is why Yes Scotland need to be a bit more assertive to get through to the typical west central tribal labour supporter.
And I hear the Green Goblin’s taking to the airwaves tomorrow morning – good old chucklebum.
Suddenly the Test match seems more attractive, even if it’s raining.
Macart – as the saying goes, “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.” 😉
“Bath-based blogger writes blog on thing. Edinburgh-based arse-wipe launches cheap ad hominem attack”
Was Sharlene Spiteri really stupid enough to make all these ridiculous comments or was the Record – and readers – stupid enough to not know that she is taking the piss? mmmmm?
@Doug Daniel
I clocked that piece earlier on the Record site and must admit to fly catching with a fully opened mouth for about five minutes. Just how could an articulate, many would say talented, individual be so helplessly uninformed? The oil quote alone is a stand out beaut. Just what ‘facts’ are these people being fed? Hell even the Guardian’s been over that one more times than you can count and yet…… we still have bods out there who are totally ignorant of even the most basic points of Scotland’s innate wealth and resources.
Staggering.
This is just a puff piece by the DR to give the illusion that the whole of ‘creative’ Scotland is against Indpendence. They only need to give the impression that there is serious concerns by the named above to plant that seed into the mind of the casual DR reader. How many thousands will glance through the paper giving each headline 20 seconds worth of thought before making a bee-line to the fitba? As far as the DR is concerned it’s job done! The same happened years ago when the DR trotted out A McLeish, A Ferguson, W Smith and Souness to make believe that Scottish football was against the SNP in 2007. Ultimately this piece really shows the poverty of argument for the Union. These days people will ore likely listen to Frankie Boyle rather than a faded pop star of 20 years ago.
By the way, why does Sharleen still think it’s 1997? I saw them at T in the Park back then and it looks like they haven’t moved on at all.
I’d be a bit disappointed if people like Sharlene Spiteri were against Independence. They’ve done well for themselves. I’d like to take them on a wee tour of the East End of Glasgow and show them some of the health, life expectancy and multi-generational unemployment statistics which apply to that area and then ask them why they think we’re better in the United Kingdom,sending all our taxes and oil and gas revenues to London and having the big decisions taken there, when 300 years of union and hundreds of Labour politicians at both national and local level, over many years, have made no significant difference to the quality of life of the people who live there.
It would be interesting to see how a well-off Scot living in London would explain to a wee woman in the East End of Glasgow how much better off she would be if she just votes to continue this arrangement.
I’m not getting at Sharlene Spiteri personally. I like her and I like her music. I just don’t understand her point of view.
@man in the jar
“Yes Scotland need to be a bit more assertive to get through to the typical west central tribal labour supporter”
Absolutely so. Everyone is hee-hawing at the split in the No camp, but in fact it’s probably the emergence of a sharper strategy for saving the Union. Tories can be guaranteed to vote No – the danger area is the Labour vote. If the Rabs of the world are to be kept sitting on their hands or voting No, then there has to be a pure Labour campaign untainted by Tories. Expect an intensification of the Brown/Labour flavour of the No campaign, and a gentle fade-out of the Darling/BT show.
“Everyone is hee-hawing at the split in the No camp, but in fact it’s probably the emergence of a sharper strategy for saving the Union.”
I get what you’re saying, but surely it’s only sharper if it isn’t obviously utterly ridiculous? They haven’t made “Better Together” vanish, and unless they officially withdraw from it all the questions are still going to be there.
I’ve always maintained that opinion should never be respected unless its backed up by evidence. So anyone that holds beliefs such as denying the holocaust, believes in creationism and not evolution etc should be subject to ridicule and then the world might advance at a much faster pace than giving credence to ridiculous beliefs.
The same can be said for the Scottish Independence debate. Voting No isn’t an inherently wrong decision of course. There will be a few reasons of course, British Nationalism and/or having a very right wing leaning political viewpoint, well that’s about it!!! What is absurd is anyone that suggests that Scotland could’t manage and would crumble. Its such an absurd belief that flies in the face of all available evidence and this opinion should not be respected or agreed to disagree. Anyone spouting this nonsense should be subject to ridicule (in a tactful way).
What are the reasons opposed?
Scotland couldn’t survive– Absurd and ridiculous all evidence suggests Scotland would be financially better off.
Scotland would be a sitting target to hostile countries– Absurd when was the last time there was a was in home soil in any developed nation especially in Northern Europe. Would the rest of the world stand by and let Scotland be annihilated. Its such an absurd belief that again its subject to ridicule.
I’m Scottish first but like being British- Probably the hardest hurdle to overcome yet the reason again is almost as stupid. Well surely you would vote in whats in Scotland’s best interests rather than Westminster’s otherwise I don’t believe you. You can still be British in an independent Scotland the same way Scanadinavians share a bond despite all being independent countries. The republic of Ireland has been an independent country for almost 100 years ago yet there is still a social bond between the UK and ROI. Just think of shared entertainment where Irish comedians – Graham Norton, Dara O’Briain, Ed Byrne. Musicians- Danny O’Donohue lead singer of the script and judge on the voice all star in prominent roles in British Television. Think of popular Irish bands Boyzone, Westlife U2. Point being is that the entertainment world is universal and specifically if Scotland became independent not much would change, We would have our own unique take on things but would still play a part in British entertainment.
Don’t leave the English to the Tories – Even though it may be in Scotland’s interests its selfish to leave the English to the Tories. I don’t know where to even start with this, firstly as has already been said many times Scotland has next to zero influence into what party is elected at Westminster. Secondly you believe the country that you live in and love should be used and abused so that occasionally we can help the English political left (Labour are a right wing party). Thirdly if England want to vote for the conservatives why should we try and interfere. Fourthly we often hear about the UK in Europe, not once does the issue of “well it would be in the UK’s interest but we should stay in as it will help our friends in Paris, Lisbon and Warsaw”. Why not? Because the politicians who make this argument obviously see Britain as there country, Scotland is merely a region within.
That’s about the main ones right there. All ridiculous and demonstrably stupid reasons.
I liked this bit in the Gillespie piece:
‘In another song on the album, called Hit Void, Gillespie tells the listener to: “Read your Marx and Engels, get a strategy. Be a situationist like Guy Debord, explode yourself in the House Of Lords.”’
Just imagine the twatterage if it was an independista espousing that – ‘Evil Nat encourages suicide bombing’.
“We’re not at all convinced that that makes them “a growing number of Scotland’s most influential celebrities who have come out publicly and backed the No campaign””
Who cares whether these celebrities do or don’t support independence anyway?
What matters is what the people of Scotland support, surely no one is stupid enough to vote one way or the other purely because of what Alex Ferguson, or Sean Connery for that matter, support?
“Who cares whether these celebrities do or don’t support independence anyway?”
Nobody, probably. What this site does care about, however, is the Scottish media telling lies.
We don’t have the resources – like oil and gas – we’d need to keep Scotland afloat.“
I have no objection to anyone believing in the Union, but her ignorance is truly staggering.
I think there’s been a bit of manipulation done by the DR reporter, sounds like it was just another interview, Texas are back here’s what Sharleen’s been up to sort of thing. So slipped into the normal interview process is the question on Independence, she give’s a skewed uninformed answer which is enough for the DR’s politics. So that becomes the story. If she said I don’t really know or was sitting on the fence about it then her views wouldn’t have seen the light of day. If the DR was actually encouraging the Indy debate they would have five famous people from each side giving their views and allow the reader to make up their own minds …. hahaha I know. But they’ve proved once again the poverty of real journalism and debate in that so-called newspaper and in Scotland as a whole.
surely no one is stupid enough to vote one way or the other purely because of what Alex Ferguson, or Sean Connery for that matter, support
We’re talking about people who vote for the Labour party because they imagine them to be socialists, so they’re plenty stupid enough.
Have just heard that Sat’s Bedroom Tax demo (Glasgow, 11.30) has been cancelled? Can anyone confirm this?
Glad to see Billy Connelly has taken a more relaxed and less condescending attitude, well done Billy.
Sharlene, do you reckon she is taking the p!ss, or is she really that thick?
Always liked Sharleen Spiteri and her music, but really is she being serious or just taking the proverbial. If she is being serious she needs to do some research.
I have no objection to anyone believing in the Union, but her ignorance is truly staggering.
It’s the ignorance of the DR that staggers me. Are they really saying “Here’s a celebrity who clearly doesn’t have a clue. She supports the Union and so should you”?
NW:
What matters is what the people of Scotland support, surely no one is stupid enough to vote one way or the other purely because of what Alex Ferguson, or Sean Connery for that matter, support?
Erm, aye. Quite.
It’s a bit like thinking the Olympics would unite the UK in glorious happiness, killing the independence cause instantly in an orgy of MacDonalds, Coca-Cola and modestly exciting (for some) escapism.
As a Primal Scream fan Rev is no doubt aware that Bobby Gillespie is the son of the famous Bob Gillespie who famously lost the Govan By Election to Jim Sillars in 1988 at the height of the anti poll tax campaign.
@Laura
I know – I keep thinking she was surely saying that tongue-in-cheek.
My, what a list of pathetic excuses for voting NO! The worst yet. Rather than come out and admit that they are crude British nationalists, they have to justify their negative position with absolute claptrap. They absolutely love the idea of being British. Their love of all things British far outweighs any ideas/opportunities of making Scotland a fairer, progressive society. A common theme with the Uncle and Auntie Toms seems to be this underlying Britphilia that rises to the surface on occasion, just enough to give the game away. hy can’t they just be honest and spit it out: “I’m a Brit Nat and proud of it!”.
Manin the jar,
I recently had a sort of similar discussion.
This was with a workman at my house, let us call him Steve. I asked him if he would vote YES in the referendum, his reply was no, ” don’t know much about it! I asked if he would like to know some of the facts, he said aye, I’ll listen.
So I told him of the McCrone report, I told him if he was playing golf in Carnoustie , he would be looking over waters stolen from Scotland, I explained the Crown Estate and Airport tax, the fact that we pay much more in than we get out, and other relevant things.
His reply was ” yea must be joking!” I assured him that NO, I was not joking! He said “bloody hell, I never knew that stuff”, I wrote down this website and a couple of others and gave them to him as he left,promising to have a look.
Well Steve was back at my house yesterday, and I duly asked if he had now looked at the sites and if so,had that changed his mind.
He said absolutely I will be voting YES, “I never knew all this stuff, where I come from,people are more interested in getting through the day, but I will be talking to my friends and family so that they know what is going on. I know most will be angry when I tell them about it, and they will listen to me.
So, he left and thanked me for telling him all this info, which of course he never saw in the press or the tv.
For me I felt great satisfaction with my convert, as he is now an angry man, determined to make sure other know what he now does.
This is how the truth can effect Scots, the more they know, the more converts there will be as Scots when faced with all the truths take offence at what is happening, from there it spreads.
I thought,a good day’s work,on this occasion. So it is my opinion, that if there is a no vote, it will not be because of Bitter Together, but apathy instilled in many of Scotland’s people.We all need to take the time to explain and educate them with all the facts at every opportunity,
“Everyone is hee-hawing at the split in the No camp, but in fact it’s probably the emergence of a sharper strategy for saving the Union.”
It’s the emergence of the forlorn hope, i.e. that scots can magically be persuaded it’s 1997 all over again and a wonderful, fair and just Labour party are going to ride in on a white stallion in the 2015 GE bringing prosperity to the isles with devo max for Scotland.
Something of a long shot as this has zero chance of happening; Labour can’t even sell itself to Scotland at the moment, never mind England. It’ll be out of power for at minimum another two terms.
@Les Wilson
I salute you! I did something similar a number of weeks back – turned out the guy was an SNP supporter anyway, so no actual conversion. But I think it’s an opportunity we should try and use where possible.
Was Sharleen yanking their chain?
It seems to me that there are fewer celebraties expressing negative opinions now than there were in the 90s regarding Home Rule. I think most people (OK not Michael Forsyth) can see that devolution has been a success story and that the very existence of Holyrood is attracting additional powers and demands for additional powers like a magnet. Independence is a logical step.
The Record is a comic though and technically not a newspaper at all.
What an ignorant woman. Anyone with half a brain might consider getting some facts straight before they open their gob so they don’t go out and embarrass themselves, then again, when your career is over any press is good press.
Ach, who cares.
As for Hothersall, he’s just a pawn regurgitating the party line. No original thought, no intellect, just bitter bitchiness from this joke of a labour supporter. Don’t waste your time with him.
O/T, Thought Lament went lower than gutter level today at FMQs. Truly a despicable woman.
Rev Stu O/T
Ive been following your tweets regarding prescription charges. I don’t have twitter myself.
Details of costs are here:
link to tinyurl.com
Paracetamol in 2012 at £7.4 million (£3.10 a pop)
“Details of costs are here:
link to tinyurl.com
Paracetamol in 2012 at £7.4 million (£3.10 a pop)”
Cheers for that. Looks like 0.7% of the prescriptions budget.
erm – I wonder if Sharleen was actually being sarcastic in the interview but then the journalist/editor applied the thick unionist butter over the top…
Truly a despicable woman.
I always tend to think of her as ineffectual and desperately out of her depth hence every argument almost immediately degenerating into a …..but…but Eck is a fat bastard. She isn’t big and she isn’t clever.
I’ve been on the other end of a Daily Record interview a couple of times in a former life as a musician. We were always astounded what little resemblance there was between the words said and what ended up in print. The Rev’s right, this is about the lack of Press integrity rather than what some singer or actor is reported as saying.
Basically a desperate newspaper does a story based on the utterings of a group of out of touch celeb expats who don’t want change or can’t articulate a straight answer. It reminds me a bit of journalists/bbc/stv presenters never saying which of the OF they support to avoid giving offence. Aye, the good old days 🙂 By the way I wad part of the same circle back in the day as Texas. Sharleen is a nice (politically dim) person but to be fair that was probably her 10th interview that day. I still reckon they’re a good band. Unlike today’s bands, canna make oot the words, just a racket etc…:)
I have never seen a Record story that I have had any personal knowledge of bear even the vaguest relation to the facts. I just work on the basis that as they have a 100% strike rate on events I know about then the rest of what they publish is mince too.
To be fair they generally get the football scores right and the telly page is moderately accurate.
Might I suggest that Sharlene is nicely and respectfully given the facts. Like Ferguson and other Scots who have lived a long time away in England (like many of my family)she’ll be seriously misinformed.
I knew Ferguson slightly a long time ago and even then I recognised a man not readily fooled or taken in and I suapect that fully informed on this issue he might have a very different view
Do people really think Sharleen was serious or perhaps misquoted? She is a bright cookie, I refuse to believe 40 years of Scottish oil industry has passed her by.
Les Wilson,
well done.Its been said before that if we all convert one person we will win the referendum,but the fact is,some of us will have to convert a lot more than one to make up for those who aren’t bothered enough to convert any. I reckon that,15 months before the referendum,my best tactic is just to drop into the conversation a few facts that will encourage folk to think about things and come to their own conclusions.
Actually, I was interviewed myself many years ago by a Daily Record journalist. When I read the published article, what became clear to me was that he had already written it before he interviewed me – he just added in one or two personal details that came up in the actual interview to make it look as though he had represented what I’d said. So, I would agree, the same thing might well have happened to Sharlene Spiteri.
I note that the journalist claims to be “award-winning”. Didn’t think much of his writing ability, myself.
Man in the jar I read your post about your Trade Union friend.
i hate to be cruel but you have heard of the phrase “you can choose your friends…….” he sounds like a bundle of laughs on a night out ,the conversations must be deep and meaningful.
callum says:
16 May, 2013 at 1:12 pm
erm – I wonder if Sharleen was actually being sarcastic in the interview but then the journalist/editor applied the thick unionist butter over the top.
This to me seems the most likely explanation as it doesnt seem to sit right. If not, then could i suggest Sharleen has that ‘conversation’ with herself and pronto.
Its a good feeling pointing others to WOS, McCrone report et al but yesterday a work colleauge quite literally had his Scottish cringe in full view, first stating that there is no decent Scottish footy players then spreading his special doom laden message to everything Scottish then lightened the mood with all things British. My mouth opened then closed again and i actually thought whats the point. I thought i’d be wasting my time. Its a bit of an eye opener to have to just write certain people off, and sad too. I reckoned that we cant and wont get every single vote but time will let him see how wrong he is and was after a YES vote.
Paracetamol in 2012 at £7.4 million (£3.10 a pop)
We should remember that a lot of the prescriptions for paracetamol are not for the ones you can buy for pennies at Tesco. They’ll be for the high-strength stuff that’s helping people with chronic pain to function. It will help some of them to work, contributing taxes which more than offset the cost of the prescription. Lamont’s attack on paracetamol prescriptions is either ignorance or cynical misrepresentation.
I think we need to be careful about how we deal with these, there is the chance the celeb in question might be taking the piss. (Something which I think Justin Currie of Del Amitri was doing.)
Obviously with out context its hard to know. I don’t know the girl from Texas, whether she’s as thick as a safe door or brighter than an Egg head.
What I do know is, when ever a rag like the daily record spouts this pish, it should be challenged in the strongest of terms.
As for Charlene? Meh, what she says makes no difference, the difference is; that the paper printed it.
@Handandshrimp
Do people really think Sharleen was serious or perhaps misquoted? She is a bright cookie, I refuse to believe 40 years of Scottish oil industry has passed her by.
Have to say that sounds more plausible and it is the Daily Record we’re talking about.
Apparently Better Together currently feel better not being together with their website.
The most important decision in 300 years and it’s been offline for nearly an hour and a half now it would seem.
“Apparently Better Together currently feel better not being together with their website.
The most important decision in 300 years and it’s been offline for nearly an hour and a half now it would seem.”
Interesting. The Scottish Labour one was down for a lengthy period earlier (back now). What could be going on?
@Vronsky
“Tories can be guaranteed to vote No”
Not all – I know of two Tories who are voting Yes. That must account for about 50% of the current membership in Scotland.
The Daily What?
A bit O/T but I wonder if J Lamont is going to ask her boss what he is going to do about this link to telegraph.co.uk in the same we she had a go at Alex Salmond last week. I am not holding my breath however.
Should Labour regain power at Holyrood under the current leadership then the public need to be very afraid. They will be no better than Osborne but with an even nastier nannyish sneer as they stick the knife in.
The Daily Record says it… ‘it must be true!’ scream the masses.
Almost laughable, their attempts at spin.
Another ‘newspaper’ that if you wiped your erse wi it more
shite comes off the paper.
Still we’ve all got the celebration of the start of WWI to
look forward to.
link to glasgow.gov.uk
Still we’ve all got the celebration of the start of WWI tolook forward to.
and we should point out that per head of population Scotls lost more than anyone else.
That should shut the Britnats up about Arthur Donaldson etc
Bobby Gillespie, he`s a funny manny. I think that`s what I meant?
I`m thinking, surely Sharleen was being sarcastic? Surely?
OT
The Better Together official site has been down since late last night. Strange.
The trick for NB Labour is if they get back into Holyrood with a Tory government in Westminster then they’ll carry out the Nasty Party’s work with zeal only for NB Labour to turn around say ‘look at what the Tories are doing, it’s their fault, you need to keep voting for us’ … they’ll take us back to the 1980s all over again. ‘Hate the Tories! Hate the Tories! A vote for the SNP is a vote for the Tories!’ It’s the nature of the beast hence their ineffectual opposition to the SNP and Broon’s stuck-record rhetoric.
Doug Daniel says:16 May, 2013 at 12:09 pm
“Bath-based blogger writes blog on thing. Edinburgh-based arse-wipe launches cheap ad hominem attack”
You are too kind Doug. He (Hothersall) is an arsehole.
@Dcanmore
Thanks for the clip. Was it taken from a Labour in Scotland meeting when the subject of Alex Salmond came up?
@Rod Mac
at 1:33pm
“Rab” isn’t that bad a guy. He is an ex work colleague and actually sits on the local children’s panel. Bizarrely he is moving further to the right by the day. His excuse is that “in times of austerity people naturally turn to the right” I would argue the opposite but there you go. I suspect that it is the exposure to lets say “the less fortunate” in society via the children’s panel that is tainting his viewpoint. He is typical Labour party drone that has forgotten where his party came from.
@Aplinal …
It’s a Scotch Labour’s activist graduation day. J Lamont was the Class of 83 and fast tracked into being a teacher to breed more proles with no aspiration, no vision, no dreams, just hate yourself and cringe at others.
@Dcanmore
I think that was our own Gregor Fisher that I spotted in your clip at 22 and again at 1:22?
@The Man in the Jar …
Yes it’s Gregor … his character was sent to Room 101 for complaining about the food in the canteen.
I love SS, could you not have found a better picture 🙁
@Dcanmore
Cheers it has been a while since I watched the movie in its entirety.
Interesting. The Scottish Labour one was down for a lengthy period earlier (back now). What could be going on?
Dunno. As you say back up now, but still with various errors (Better Apart) depending on browser. Strange that Labour went offline around the same time – unless they share the same host and it was having problems.
As a couple of others have said, it’s possible that she was being utterly sarcastic in the interview, and that the DR have chosen to take her words verbatim, therefore losing the sense of what she said and spinning it in the opposite direction. But without a clarification from Spiteri, we shall never know.
Both IP addresses are blue state digital.
Both IP addresses are blue state digital.
As in Tory blue?
A bit of info about Blue State Digital
“Labour party tracks Ken Livingstone supporters with hidden web bugs accessible by USA tracking companies and US Government”
Not exactly pure as the driven snow.
As in Tory blue?
Technically, as in Democrat blue (US).
Guess who else has this ‘story’ today? Yes, the good ol’ (Scottish) Daily Mail! (The rabid right-wing and the so-called left-wing news organisations of the present-UK colluding to prevent Scotland becoming independent…well, well, who woulda thunk it!).
Headline: “I’m a Union girl at heart, says Shareen”
The quotes attributed to Shaleen Spiteri in the Daily Record and reprinted in Stu’s article (above) are word for word, apart from an added sentence at the end; “And to me, if you can’t survive, then what’s the point in breaking away?”
But the interesting part in the Mail article is the following: “In an interview with Stylist magazine,…”
So, Stylist magazine seems to be the source of the interview, then. Whether the Daily Record names them as the source, or claims the ‘story’ as their own I don’t know.
The final two paragraphs read:
“Of 40 Scots musicians who were recently asked for their views on independence by the Pop Cop website only 13 said they planned to vote Yes to independence, with seven opposed to separation and 20 still undecided.
Rab Allan from the band Glasvegas backs the break-up of Britain, as does Kerr Okan from the LaFontaines and John Cummings from Mogwai. But Rod Jones of Idlewild said: ‘I am as British as they come: Welsh descent, brought up in England and living in Scotland for the past 17 years.'”
(Note the use of “separation” and “break-up of Britain”!!)
“Guess who else has this ‘story’ today? Yes, the good ol’ (Scottish) Daily Mail!”
There’s an extremely similar piece in the Scotsman too.
link to scotsman.com
Sorry if it’s been linked already, but going by her interview in the Guardian this afternoon, it does seem like Spiteri likes to be a little sarky with her answers:
link to guardian.co.uk
I strongly suspect that many musicians, entertainers or others who have one eye on a market will base their decisions on market forces, i.e. if they are going to flog units in England, then they will say whatever they think will ingratiate them with that market place.
Still, in my opinion, regardless of who you are, if you support the Union, then you are directly contributing to continuing child poverty and putting the dagger into free education and healthcare in Scotland. It’s as simple and as stark as that Sharleen!
I’ll just chime in with my tuppence worth. Sorry if someone beat me to it… any fule knoe the oil is volatile (and the gas is so volatile it just floats off into the big greenhoose in the sky) so obviously it’ll be all gone by the time we get independence. Ms. Spiteri is therefore smarter than all you vile cybernats put together. So there!
Also, criticising Ms. Spiteri proves this blog is crawling with misogynists…
@Dal Riata
“only 13 said they planned to vote Yes to independence, with seven opposed to separation”
Not ‘only’ seven then. I always thought that was a smaller number than 13. Thanks for clearing that one up, Daily Mail.
We’ve touched upon Blue State Digital* here previously; in relation to their texting campaigns. There move to accrue data and track visitors to BitterTogether and United Under Labour websites is a natural progression of their sophisticated “DATA MINING” and “Machine Learning” approach; headed up by Computer Scientists.
I do think it is important that YES advocates develop an awareness of the ways to combat illegal data intrusion by this operation. One idea in that direction is that individuals who feel or suspect a violation of privacy, make use of the Telecommunications Act, or a Subject Access Request (SAR) under the Data Protection Act.
link to ico.org.uk
Let’s stay on our toes on this. We shouldn’t make it easy for them!
*Blue State Digital ran Obama’s 2012 Presidential Campaign
Training Day
Using Unionist maths: 32.5% support independence (13/40 total) but 35% (7/20 expressing an opinion) oppose it. A clear victory for No and a justification of’only’. Or something like that.
Sorry for the O/T but…..interesting article on the Westminster Blog “Canadian warns Brits you’ve given too much to the SNP”. Worth a look:
link to blogs.ft.com
Sharleen Spiteri says she cant understand how Scotland would survive independently.She obviously has a very low opinion of the abilities of me,my neighbours friends and colleagues.Personally,I think the Scots are every bit as capable as any other people.I’ve never believed that any one population is inferior to another.I doubt if new labour,tories,ukip etc would want me as a member.
These rich people most of whom do not live in Scotland, quite clearly have no regard for anyone not nice n rich, like themselves, with no probs paying bills, or putting food on the table.
Their ignorance to boot, is just staggering. Get lost is what I say to them. Selfish, uninformed, and unintelligent people who are oblivious to the real issues at stake. Who bought their albums. DVDs. Films.? They should take a reality check.
BBC Scotlandshire’s take on it!
link to bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk
Does United for Labour have a separate website?
No pun intended (well, yes it was :)). But I couldn’t find a separate website for them, I could only find them listed as a Campaign under the inappropriately named scottishlabour.org site.
On the topic of Blue State Digital and Bettertogether, I’ve just had Bettertogether pop up on my Facebook page as a ‘suggested page’, with like button prominently displayed on the link before you even get to their page. At least it indicates they have a pretty scattergun approach!
Johann Lamont is an ignorant woman. Words cannot describe my contemptI have for this stupid woman. She is a complete ignoramous. She has a go at Alex Salmond for one of her constituents for not being accepted to medical school despite perfect school grades. Does she not realise that everyone who gets into medical school gets perfect or near perfect school grades!!! Secondly she has a go at Alex Salmond for refusing drug care to a Cancer patient. this was rebutted by Joan McAlpine very effectively : link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Now she goes on about prescribing of paracetamol. Does she not realise that despite being a drug that can be bought over the counter it is one of proven efficacy. Has many uses as an analgesic and antipyretic, serves as a useful add on for patients in chronic pain conditions (i.e cancer) and reduces the need for higher doses of opioids which have many side effects. It is used in hospital for patients with a dangerous fever. The woman is a complete moron and she be told as such. Don’t jump ino issues which you clearly don’t understand.
O/T
The most cynical peice of news I have heard yet:link to bbc.co.uk
Just happens to pick Glasgoiw to celebrate the start of a war. I really hope this backfires spectactularly.
@macdoc-
On the page you provided the link to, the other prominent story is about GCC apologising for being unable to organise the respectful handling of the cremated remains of dead infants.
Says it all really.
In due course GCC will find out exactly what ‘ordinary Glaswegians’ think of this obscene ‘celebration’.
Just happens to pick Glasgoiw to celebrate the start of a war. I really hope this backfires spectactularly.
I see the LP says “I know this is something that Glaswegians will want to be part of. They value their hard won freedoms”. Perhaps someone with more time to educate the hopelessly stupid could explain to her that the First World War had bugger all to do with defending our freedoms, many of which her party took away when in power at Westminster.
I’m sure Glaswegians will remember their disproportionate contribution to the slaughter.
“Lamont’s attack on paracetamol prescriptions is either ignorance or cynical misrepresentation.”
cynical misrepresentation
My opinion is that she is obviously taking the piss by specifically mentioning the oil as if it didn’t exist. I read into that, that she is pro Indy with a sense of humour and having a bit of fun at the expense of the hack.
“My opinion is that she is obviously taking the piss by specifically mentioning the oil as if it didn’t exist. I read into that, that she is pro Indy with a sense of humour and having a bit of fun at the expense of the hack.”
It’s very hard to support that conclusion looking at the rest of her quote. It’d be the most subtle sarcasm ever.
No doubt the WW1 ‘commemoration’ in Glasgow will be a chance for Labour councillors to festoon the place with Union Jackery. Yeah, do the GCC bother to remember the Battle of George Square 1919 as well? The blessed might of the Union and Empire putting down the ordinary working man for want of a decent life for himself and his family. You don’t see that being taught in schools. So much rich Scottish history and culture being left to half-wits like Lamont and Baillie to bury under the weight of the British State because it’s not important, the plumber in Poland and the Czech electrician comes first, not our own, no way, our poverty, our history and our culture doesn’t count with these fucking morons.
I can’t bring myself to believe she is that misguided
Scotland had the highest combat casualty rate of any nation in World War 1 and double that of England.
Macdoc – re: med school admission and paracetamol – amen to that brother (sister?)
Lamont clearly hasn’t got a clue!
Ah the magnificent 1st world war eh!
I hope the celebrations will include a mention of the Sykes Pirot agreement, secretly agreed between Westminster and France for the benefit of Big Business interests.
The plan was hatched in order to make sure that the Turkish Ottoman empires navy, could never pose a threat again to the UK’s interest in Suez and Birittish trading interests in the asian markets especialy India.
Turkey had alied with the Germans, which gave the Uk/French goverments the perfect excuse.
A line was drawn accross yhe middle east and a couple of new countries were created to split the Middle east and make sure the Ottoman empire would stay devided.
The Uk created Trans Jordan, (now called Jordan) and Iraq, france created the Lebanon.
Hundreds of thousands of Moslems have died because of these decisions as the Planners moved tribes around (The Jordanians came from what is now Saudi Arabia and the present Saudi’s came from what is now Kuwait)
The tensions that still exist in these areas was purposely created by the Uk for the benefit of big Business, and Moslems are to this day dying and payiing the price for this disgrace.
This secret was exposedby the kremlin only after the Soviet Union was formed.
a true Moslem is a Moslem first and everything else comes second , I wonder if Anas Sarwar will continue to support the Westminster system, now that he knows that Moslems are dying and the Ottoman Empire was purposely split by the Westminster system, simply for the benefit of big business ?
I wonder why the media have never asked this simple question about iraq and Sadam Husain, How did the Sunni minority manage to get into power and exert control over the Shiite Majority ?
How did Sadam need to drop Anthrax on the Curdish rebels and when did these so called rebels, start the rebelion?
It’s was all created to keep the Moslems fighting against each other and stop them re-creating the Ottoman empire.
That in a nutshell is Westminster. !
Blue State Digital are now owned by WPP Group which is biggest advertising agency in the world run by Sir Martin Sorrell.
link to wpp.com
Once thing you can never claim is “Poor” wee Sharleen. Anyone familiar with her attitude regards Songwriting Royalties will know she loves money so the Madonna Neighbouring London dweller wouldnt exactly be high on my list of “Pro YES” celeb wishlist. If only Paul Heaton lived in Scotland!
Iain: “On the topic of Blue State Digital and Bettertogether, I’ve just had Bettertogether pop up on my Facebook page as a ‘suggested page’, with like button prominently displayed on the link before you even get to their page. At least it indicates they have a pretty scattergun approach!”
BetterTogether apparently pay for their Facebook posts to be promoted into the timelines of people whose friends have Liked their page. So even though I’ve not liked their page, their posts can still appear on my timeline just because one person I’m friends with has liked their page. It’s a dodgy practice that YesScotland refuse to embark on, because it’s just far too spammy, but as we’ve seen with the text campaign, BetterTogether have no such moral stances.
Interesting development in Falkirk (a couple of days ago now). The front-runner to replace Eric Joyce, Karie Murphy, backed by Unison and most of the party, has mysteriously dropped out of the running… to be replaced at the top of the pile by a guy who just happens to be the UK director of Blue State Digital.
Falkirk’s one of the largest council areas in Scotland, and seems to have a very “conservative Labour” electorate, for the most part. I think we can expect it to be bombarded with No campaign nonsense if this guy takes charge.
It’ll need to be countered, and I don’t see how street stalls and leafletting alone can do it.
On the subject of Sharleen Spiteri… I don’t want to depress everybody, but the general public (including her) don’t read the Herald, or the forecasts of UK Oil and Gas. They don’t read White Papers either. There are LOADS of people who still think the oil will run out tommorrow (but only if we leave the Union), and that Scotland has no other industries (even though they have jobs themselves which aren’t in the oil and gas sector).
People have been told their whole lives by high authorities that Scotland has no money, no talent, no brains, no industry, no tax-base, and very little in the way of natural resources – and they believe it whole heartedly, because they live in and see the poverty themselves (and it never occurs to them to ask why they are so poor if the UK is so rich).
A balanced and accurate article coming out twice a year in a single newspaper that doesn’t have a particularlty wide readership will not be enough to wake them up, especially when they have to swim through a tsunami of terror to get to it.
Sharleen Spiteri is just like her band – average. We should be worried therefore, because her view is that of the mainstream, the majority. Unless she’s having a laugh like Justin currie.
I am disappointed, I was hoping Gillespie was a Yes as I really wanted to make a montage video outlining why we can and should be indy for youtube with movin on up as the audio. I find it very upflifting and yrically appropriate for a Yes vote. Darn it.