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Wings Over Scotland

Looking forwards

Posted on September 22, 2017 by

We’re not saying it’s been a slow news week in Scottish politics, but this is what the Scotsman’s going with today:

We might go for a walk.

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    1. 22 09 17 12:56

      Looking forwards | speymouth

    228 to “Looking forwards”

    1. handclapping says:

      Mind the Bath bears if you do!

    2. bobajock says:

      After the ‘sturgeon tweet’ eviscerating Sarwar, I thought it was a perfect week for politics.

      But the Scotsman – “look, a squirrel”.

    3. Dr Jim says:

      What a “Marvel” life will be
      What’s a nice thought though is the Scotsman wont be there to see it

    4. Lenny Hartley says:

      Looks like the mind expanding drugs students took in the sixties has finally kicked in.
      Supersonic underwater trains without tunnels,” the 13:20 from Arbroath to Stavanger has been cancelled due to the wrong sort of seaweed on the line”

    5. Muscleguy says:

      Invisibility cloaks only work for very small objects and only in particular directions and for particular wavelengths.

      This ‘futurologist’ is the sort who ignores inconvenient facts about technologies and just assume hard physical limits can be ignored.

      They are the equivalent of some arsehole. So this is some arsehole news. I could set myself up as a futurologist tomorrow just as I could set myself up as a ‘nutritionist’. There are no qualifications, no formal recognition mechanism.

    6. Penderyn says:

      and the SNP are to blame, no doubt….

    7. winifred mccartney says:

      Unfortunately Sarwar’s invisibility cloak is see through!

    8. Artyhetty says:

      Is this an SNP bad story?

      50 years! Why not now, (must be because the SNP are bad)I would take two of each. Will the ScotsMAN still be around in 50 years, that is the real issue here. If only we had a time machine as well, that would be cool.

      I think we should stay shackled to the Britnat UKok, they will save us from all of this future madness. Won’t they?

      Off to dust the hallway now, you can never get back the time spent reading pap in the daily rags, which are like dust; persistant, vile, futile and insignificant.

    9. yesindyref2 says:

      Now you see me, now you don’t.


      They seek him here they seek him there, that damned elusive pimpernel.

      So they had invisibility suits back in the, errr, French thing.

    10. Bill Hume says:

      Now I’m worried. The Rev. has just predicted this will be a boring day…….and we all know what he said about 2017.

    11. HandandShrimp says:

      I think I saw on line that the Express was running with the end of the world tomorrow as planet Niribu takes yet another shot at us.

      Listening to the Unionists you would think the end of the world had already happened.

    12. heraldnomore says:

      Whilst waiting on the next instalment of Strolling With Stuey, you could do worse than make a coffee and pull up a chair – listen to the brilliant Richard Murphy in conversation with Siobhan – -no not that one – Tolland

    13. Free Scotland says:

      The opening sentence of that article was written by someone with a distinct linguistic deficit – “… so far only been seen only …”

      No offence to donkeys, but a donkey could have done better.

    14. donald anderson says:

      So that’s wot happened to Jim Murphy?

    15. Proud Cybernat says:

      50 years away? Don’t they know the world’s to end tomorrow?

    16. Athanasius says:

      I’ve often wondered, when watching Star Trek, why the Romulans don’t bump into each other. I may give the invisibility cloaks a miss.

    17. Fireproofjim says:

      But,–but — we were promised hover boards. Sturgeon must go.
      On another topic have you notice the close resemblance of our own dear Fluffy Mundell to Prime Minister Rajoy of Spain (the current scourge of Catalonia.)
      They have never been seen in the same room. Only saying.

    18. mike cassidy says:

      Safest prediction for fifty years hence.

      Almost all of us using this site will be dead!

      Unless the SNP come up with ‘eternal youth’ pills.

    19. mogabee says:

      It’s blowing a hoolie and raining here, so we aint going anywhere!

    20. Robert Graham says:

      Looks like a Time Out has been called while like minded nutters have a strategy get together,

      So far every attempt too eradicate thoughts of Independence hasn’t worked, every effort has failed,
      Expect a different approach shortly, I wonder what innovative groundbreaking formula will be tried next,
      By the looks of it they are fast running out of viable options.

      The shaded history of the British State dealing with insugency and a threat to the very fabric of their society has driven them to some very dubious acts, anything goes.

      You ain’t seen nothing yet . I think the next move will even surprise people here , it will be drastic .
      Having tried everything to silence Independence support and failed, Playing Dirty really Dirty is next.

    21. Effijy says:

      The last line in the story is the key to the story.

      Our Fascist Rulers and Media are preparing you for that fact that there is no profit for the wealthy if you are sick or old, so
      “We” will have to make tough decisions together, where they don’t treat you for anything, but if you have lots of cash, no problem.

      I also have a grudge against those who are keen to raise up the taxation of those in honest employment to support the NHS.

      Many of us have seen our income cut by 15% in recent years.
      That is a tax already forced up us.

      I want to see the loop holes closed for the wealthy with overseas
      accounts, fake homes in Monaco or the Caribbean.

      I don’t want to give tax breaks to Multi-Million pound corporations who also avoid their tax obligations globally .

    22. Capella says:

      In 50 years time the oil, gas, wind, waves, water and sun will run out. Then what are we going to do? Invisibility cloaks will be the least of our problems.

    23. Fergus Green says:

      With independence, we’ll have this stuff in 10 years. 40 ahead of rUK

    24. I’m 55, and I’m still waiting for the personal jet-pack that Tomorrow’s World and all the comics (no, not you Anas, siddown!) promised me in 1967! Grrr!

    25. mike d says:

      Dr pearson said androids will mix freely helping humans in the home. You wont need to wait 50 yrs, after brexit the working population of britain will be turned into androids. Proudscotbuts,You have been warned.

    26. Les Wilson says:

      And, she did not predict that Scotland was will be the wealthiest country in Europe.
      If she did not predict that,then she is no very good at prophesy!

    27. Tomorrow’s Scoop. Time Travel: Back to the Victorians.
      The Dead Tree Scrolls are more expensive than toilet paper.
      They therefore now serve no purpose.
      People get paid to write this bread and circus shit.
      Still if the knuckle draggers who actually but this rag number in the thousands now, what harm is there in it?

    28. mike cassidy says:

      Effijy 12.43

      Came across a quote from this 2009 book on tax havens.

      “The British Empire is supposed to have more or less disappeared by the 1960s. This is incorrect. The formal British Empire may have collapsed, but the British-led offshore world is alive and kicking..Formalities aside, we should treat the City Of London, Jersey, Cayman Islands, BVI, Bermuda and the rest of the territories as one integrated global financial centre that serves as the world’s largest tax haven and a conduit for money laundering”

    29. Andy-B says:

      Did anyone listen to Radio Scotland around the twenty past twelve mark today?

      Where a ex-SPAD at Westminster called James (I didn’t catch his surname, said that the Scottish economy was doing better than the rUK. He added Brexit would be a economic disaster.

      James was about say more when both the host and Edwina Currie, tried to stop him from carrying on.

      James did manage to say that Scotland was in a better economic state, because it had a far better government. It was a remarkable admission, that Radio Scotland wouldnt have normally aired.

    30. Dan Huil says:

      Another vow from the britnat Scotsman. We know what that means.

    31. Robert Peffers says:

      @heraldnomore says: 22 September, 2017 at 12:02 pm:

      “Whilst waiting on the next instalment of Strolling With Stuey, you could do worse than make a coffee and pull up a chair – listen to the brilliant Richard Murphy in conversation with Siobhan – -no not that one – Tolland

      Nah! It only took a short time watching that clip to see several great big Li (Err!) – items of fake news. After which point I stopped watching. It is full of, probably deliberate, misinformation.

      In the first place the SNP, as the Scottish government, did not as claimed, “choose to use GERS”, as the SG’s source of statistics. Firstly because the SNP were not in government in Holyrood when the SG adopted GERS –

      There have been five elections to the Scottish Parliament: –
      1999 to 2003 was Labour/LibDem.
      2003 to 2007 was Labour/LibDem.
      2007 to 2011 was SNP minority.
      2011 to 2016 was SNP.
      2016 till the present is the SNP.

      The use of GERS was thus establish as the standard under a coalition of Westminster controlled Unionist Parties.

      Not only that but there are no other official statistics than those of the Westminster Civil Service and it is Westminster Civil Servants who are the heads of the Civil Service at the Holyrood Parliament.

      It is not a well known fact that there was controversy when the Westminster appointed Head Civil Servant at Holyrood was accused by Whitehall, (and I kid you not), of, “Going Native”, when he supported Alex Salmond on several matters.

      He expressed his view that he was appointed as a Civil Servant to serve the Scottish Parliament and thus its First Minister but the Whitehall and Westminster Unionists claimed his first duty was to them and the phrase, “He has gone native”, was being freely used by them.

      Mind you our SMSM made a big story out of it – NOT.

    32. joannie says:

      I’m surrounded by Scottish people. The hotel I work in is hosting a Celtic supporters weekend.

      Just thought I’d share that with the group.

    33. heedtracker says:

      As far as invisibility cloaks are concerned, the whole of the UK/English media’s draped one over its Scotland region.

      Eg, The Graun’s famous anti Scotland everything neatly summed up yesterday in its scotland region section, editor Sevee Carrell hammer of the Scots.

      Channel Islands’ buried porpoise is not the first such mysterious find
      A porpoise jawbone, discovered in the Shetlands by a 1950s schoolboy as part of an ancient treasure hoard, raises similar questions about the significance these animals held for earlier people

      Also, Sevee says, vote Anas! not born with silver spoon in his mouth, multimillionaire socialist worker dentist, who’s daddy’s company refuses to pay a living wage because its only a voluntary thingee, Scotland.

    34. Ian McCubbin says:

      I have followed Sci Fi since I was a child but this is the best yet.
      And zombies will must be a yoon virus.

    35. mike d says:

      Joannie find out how many many are inclined to a vote yes. Should be pretty high I’d imagine.

    36. schrodingers cat says:

      Nigel Stapley says:
      22 September, 2017 at 12:53 pm

      I’m 55, and I’m still waiting for the personal jet-pack that Tomorrow’s World and all the comics (no, not you Anas, siddown!) promised me in 1967! Grrr!

      snap nigel, the futurepromised in these comics turned out to be a real disappointment, by now i should have had a cat suit and a flying car complete with robby the robot to make coffee and do the effin’ garden. what i got was a rusty citroen piccasso and windows 8

    37. joannie says:

      There’s a load of them in the residents bar now singing along to The Boys of the Old Brigade, Mike d. They don’t seem very unionist but you never know I suppose.

    38. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jack Collatin says: 22 September, 2017 at 12:56 pm:

      “Tomorrow’s Scoop. Time Travel: Back to the Victorians.”

      Now to be fair to the Victorians, Jack, (but don’t ask me why we should be fair to them for I just do not know), there is a grain of truth in the Time Travel beliefs.

      Time is indeed relative as Einstein’s Theory of Relativity has long been shown to be true.

      In short he said that if we could just travel fast enough we could indeed shorten time.

      Thing is that the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. That is, 700 million miles an hour. So here’s a wee though for you – how would a human body react when the brakes were applied?

      For scale purposes, the distance from the Earth to the Moon is only about 239,000 miles.

      Now ‘fes up, Wingers – how many Wingers brains are hurting just attempting to visualise those great big numbers?

    39. Alex Clark says:

      A reminder of the link posted by Nana 09:50 this morning on the last thread if you feel inclined to watch the Theresa May speech from Florence live.

      Starts at 14:00

    40. Dr Jim says:

      When we do get all these super new things you can bet your life BBC Reporting Scotland will film it badly and entirely miss the point as it did today on a demonstration of rocket propulsion to school kids by and elderly gent this lunchtime

      So we see the excited kids we see the rocket then WOOSH! the elderly gent releases the rocket and what does the BBC Scotland cameraman film? Not the rocket, oh my no!

      The back of said mans combat jacket and his backside with not a rocket in sight

      BBC folks, bringing us the events of today by filming a mans bum

    41. Proud Cybernat says:

      ‘BREXIT’ means ‘BREXIT’

      ‘BREXIT’ means ‘Transition’

      ‘BREXIT’ means ‘BRICKS IT’

      Transition complete.

    42. manandboy says:

      The only future technology worth talking about is how to convert No to Yes.

    43. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Ah now then @Muscleguy says at 11:50 am

      “This ‘futurologist’ is the sort who ignores inconvenient facts about technologies and just assume hard physical limits can be ignored.”

      Is this the science equivalent of David Davis and the UKs Exiting the EU Team ignoring inconvenient facts about The 4 Freedoms and just assuming hard physical limits can be ignored (like a hard border between Eire and NI

      They are the epitome of some arsehole.

      It is a pity I couldn’t set myself up as the Brexit Secretary tomorrow as I doubt I’d be capable of fu*king it up as much as they are.

      Although the way they are going it works better for an Indy Ref 2 YES Vote.

    44. Capella says:

      @ mike cassidy 12.59 – thx that’s just cost me another payment to Amazon!

    45. cearc says:

      Yeah, right. They promised me a jet pack and all I got was a mobility scooter.

      Anyway, what’s with invisibilty cloaks? Why not just wear a burka?

    46. schrodingers cat says:

      treeza may about to address her minions…

      the day the earth stood stupid …………

    47. Liam says:

      Nigel Stapley says:
      22 September, 2017 at 12:53 pm

      “I’m 55, and I’m still waiting for the personal jet-pack that Tomorrow’s World and all the comics (no, not you Anas, siddown!) promised me in 1967! Grrr!”

      Me too! The 21st century has been a major disappointment to all of us who grew up watching Gerry Anderson.

    48. starlaw says:

      This futurologist is real and has been working for years on Deans Industrial estate developing his invisibility cloak. The amount of things I put down on a bench then could not find, I always knew some cretin was behind these dissappearance’

    49. Ottomanboi says:

      The future rarely follows predictions.
      futurology: an -ology that isn’t one.

    50. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Hahaha. And I thought Ray Kurzweil was optimistic.

    51. geeo says:

      Express apparently saying that theresa may will say no deal we are offski…the barking mad Rock option…!!

      Expert on Sky news…”no deal can only happen on 29th march 2019″.

    52. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Seems No EU leaders in the audience for Theresa May’s Brexit speech in Florence.

      Very telling if this is true.

      What would be described as a”blow for” or “embarrassment to” etc. if it was our FM Miss Sturgeon.

      EU 27 making a very public statement?

    53. Petra says:

      Let’s hope that someone, Scot, comes up with a way, ASAP, to detect liars from a distance. A wee ‘see you jimmy’ hat with an antenna. Press a button and ZAP.

    54. heedtracker says:

      Brexit means Brexit, back to the future, it really doesn’t:D


      “Theresa May says Britain will adopt the same rules and regulations as the EU, adding that the question is in building a new economic partnership – “what we do when one of us wants to make changes”

    55. galamcennalath says:

      May’s speech so far … wreeks of exceptionalism and entitlement … special arrangement, special relationship, special disputes mechanism…… a special nation expects no less.

    56. Jock McDonnell says:

      Cringe worthy begging letter from Theresa may in Florence.

    57. Tam the Bam. says:

      May speech:

      Transition period ‘unspecified…as long as it takes’…

      Boris not gonna like!!!…FIGHT!!!!

    58. Andy-B says:

      Meanwhile workers building the Great White Elephant, known as Hinckley Point nuclear power station are about to strike for more pay.

    59. heedtracker says:

      Brexit means Brexit 2, back to the future, it really really doesnt

      BBC Politics From our correspondent,

      The transition – or ‘implementation’ – period will mean trading “on current terms” between the UK and EU. That’s unambiguous.

      Freedom of movement will continue but the PM says with a registration system for new arrivals.

    60. Proud Cybernat says:

      GB pound totally tanking with every word May utters in Florence.


    61. heedtracker says:

      BBC Politics Theresa May says she continues to believe that “no deal is better than a bad deal” when it comes to the Brexit negotiations.

      “People voted to leave the EU and at the end of March 2019 we will leave the EU,” adding that people also voted for the process of leaving to “be orderly”.

      Also in the UKOK future, up is down, black is white, future FM Anas is not a multi millionaire dentist…

    62. Ottomanboi says:

      Guardian online headline:
      Barzani on the Kurdish referendum ‘We refuse to be subordinates’.
      With ‘the World’ against them, that strikes a feisty chord.

    63. Dorothy Devine says:

      I know I have been a tad less enthusiastic about the speech by Mrs May and may have missed the reason but WHY is she berating those in Florence ?

      If I was really kind I’d warn her not to buy an ice cream in the square – I’m still trying to recover from the 20 euros for two ice creams some 9 years ago – but I’m not really kind.

    64. Capella says:

      Well. that’s the EU telt. From TMs rather garbled and toneless speech, it appears we are both leaving and not leaving the EU in March 2019.
      To be clear – transitional arrangements will be implemented, EU citizens can stay – well some of them – but they’ll have to register. Our values are shared values.

      The EU needs our military and spying excellence. Businesses want certainty. Uhmmm as I d=said, we are leving the EU but not leaving Europe. etc etc.

      I hope that’s clear.

    65. Brian Powell says:

      In 1707 there were 513 MPs from England in Westminster and 45 MPs from Scotland, thet made the Scottish % -8.77%. They all agreed on the Union.

      In 2015 there were 650 MPs. 591 were unionist and the 56 SNP MPs wanted Independence. That’s 9.47%, a bigger percentage from Scotland who didn’t want the Union than in 1707 who did.

      Plus in Holyrood in 2015 the SNP held 53.4% of the seats.

      Perhaps someone can explain why the SG, MPs plus MSPs, couldn’t have dissolved the Union as a majority elected representatives?

      The MPs alone outweighed the 1707 pro-Union representatives.

    66. galamcennalath says:

      May. Three possibilities IMO.

      1. Saying nothing new really. At the party conference she will also say nothing new. Therefore at least being consistent to her home audience. The behind the scenes Tory civil war continues.

      2. Negotiations have stalled because the UK has already been taking the line she took today. No deal is actually their ideal deal.

      3. A hard Brexit will probably bring the UK to an end. That is actually the most important issue to be resolved. So she is serious about avoiding that, but just doesn’t understand that the EU are interested in politics, not trade. She doesn’t appreciate that unique special deals won’t be forthcoming because other countries might want them.

      Which? Or something else? I wish I knew!

    67. Jock McDonnell says:

      @galamcennalath I think it’s a hard brexit, she must know that the EU can’t meet her proposals, it was really cringeworthy as an ‘offer’, humiliating if it was genuine, arrogant if it isn’t.

    68. Proud Cybernat says:

      We’re oot, we’re in, we’re shaking it all aboot.

      This creates even more uncertainty for Scottish businesses.

      Time to grab the bull by the horns Nicola and end all this Brexit uncertainty; time for us to walk away from this shambles and give the people of Scotland a clear and certain future. Time to choose, Scotland.

      (Make your 1st, 2nd and 3rd preferences:)
      Scotland should:

      Remain with the UK [3]
      Become independent in Europe [1]
      Become independent out of Europe [2]

    69. Dr Jim says:

      Theresa May stars in the new comedy

      “An embarrassment of indecision” based on “Much ado about nothing”

    70. Legerwood says:

      Proud cybernat @ 3.12pm

      Not sure I would say the pound has tanked. The pound has lost a wee bit but is more or less where it was this morning: 1.13 to the euro, 1.35 to USD.

      Less than 2 weeks ago it was at 1.08 to the Euro and around 1.27 to the USD

    71. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      No EU officials in attendance at Theresa May’s Florence speech?

      Wonder if this will be reported as a “blow for” or “embarrassment for” etc etc. as it would be if this was our FM Miss Sturgeon

      EU 27 sending a message?

    72. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Bwitain nae as Gweat as The BritNats thinks it is??

      Well they never thought that according to the Independents Tom Peck:

      “We have to wonder if Theresa May was surprised, at the UN on Wednesday night, to stare out into the Grand Assembly Hall and see row on row of empty seats”

      “It is reassuring to remember that no one actually ever believed that stuff about leaving the European Union being Britain’s chance to “get out on to the global stage”.

      Obviously Pacific Quay and the Tory Party didn’t get tat memo 😉

    73. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      As per “GB pound totally tanking” @Proud Cybernat says at 3:12 pm

      “The British Pound stumbled as the Prime Minister Theresa May offers no fresh details with regards to the Government’s position on Brexit.”

      “Sterling has fallen sharply ahead of the weekend as markets are given no fresh information on the UK’s position regarding Brexit by UK Prime Minister Theresa May in a speech delivered in Florence.”

    74. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Aye Capella says “From TMs rather garbled and toneless speech, it appears we are both leaving and not leaving the EU in March 2019.”

      I hope that’s clear.

      Very clear as @Proud Cybernat says at 3:40 pm

      “We’re oot, we’re in, we’re shaking it all aboot.”

      We have transitioned from the Red, White and Blue Brexit to the Hokey Cokey Brexit.

      May needs the UK to leave the EU but at the same time cannot let Scotland leave the UK.

      What T May has there is a “Proof of impossibility”.

      Nae Luck


    75. Fireproofjim says:

      Proud Cybernat @3.40
      I agree in principle but by splitting the two Independence options you risk getting neither.
      Best have only one Independence option, with a firm promise to hold an early referendum on Europe.

    76. Ottomanboi says:

      Anyone who reads world history of the post Anglo-Scottish ‘Union’ period, particularly British imperial history, will be struck by how often the term England is used by authors and its frequent use as a synonym for UKGB by that states leaders and representatives, Scots among them. We might as well not have existed as a people or as a country but that was the idea.
      Unionism carries on the usage.

    77. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      Remain with the UK [3]
      Become independent in Europe [1]
      Become independent out of Europe [2]

      I’m assuming STV.

      It would need to be ‘Remain with UK out of Europe’.

      The least popular would be Indy out of Europe because two thirds of Yes voters would opt for IN. This would be removed and voters’ second choice allocated. They would split because there are some Yes Out folks who would actually have No Out as a second choice.

      The real run off would be the second round of No Out versus Yes In.

      I don’t see any big problems with this.

      Having said that, I would prefer an Indy Ref first, then after Indy a decision by Scots for Scots on the Eu.

    78. Proud Cybernat says:

      “What T May has there is a “Proof of impossibility”.

      Trapped between a Rock and a nut case.

    79. geeo says:

      Whats clear here is that, the EU will surely insist on full continuation of the 4 principles of which the EU sits upon.

      So, for that 2 year transitional period, should it happen, and it seems unlikely, the uk will NOT have legally left on march 29th 2019 !

      This will surely inspire some to shout “hold back” on indyref2 until 2021..but this would surely he a huge error as after march 29th 2019, the WM gov could simply say ‘feck this…we are off” and Rocks dream “snap brexit” could actually come to pass.

      The transitional stuff, imo, is to try soften the effects of brexit in the eyes of Scots.

      It becomes ever clearer that brexit has become about saving the union.

      It is really hanging by a thread after today’s shambles of a speech.

    80. Fireproofjim says:

      Robert Peffers
      And Einstein also said that the mass of an object approaching the speed of light increases exponentially until at light speed it becomes infinite.
      I never thought Jackie Baillie could move that fast.

    81. Proud Cybernat says:


      I’m meaning in a Single Transferable Vote thingy. If UK option comes third it is eliminated then the preferences of those knocked out vote gets split between the other two indy options then we have a single, clear preference.

    82. call me dave says:

      Sterling sinks against the euro and the dollar as traders watch May’s address on Brexit

    83. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ galamcennalath

      “Having said that, I would prefer an Indy Ref first, then after Indy a decision by Scots for Scots on the Eu.”

      That’s kinda what I mean which is why I used ‘Europe’ as a catchall rather than ‘EU’. There would be a referendum after Indy on the exact relationship we want with Europe after indy.

    84. Jockanese Wind Talker says:


      Proud Cybernat says at 4:06 pm

      ‘mon now that’s no a nice way tae speak aboot wur ‘No National Fan Club’ President and the Man at C&A.

    85. Fireproofjim says:

      Proud Cybernat
      Yes that could work.

    86. mr thms says:

      Sorry for going off topic..

      Strange speech by the PM. So the UK is to remain in the EU for the duration of the current financial cycle?

      This is potentially good news for Scotland in that while the UK will leave the EU on the 29th March 2019, the additional two years until the 29th March 2021 gives Scotland four years to set up the various agencies and ministries for the devolved powers the EU is responsible for, that should be returned to Scotland.

      Presumably, some way will be found to devolve more powers to Scotland that are currently reserved to Westminster.

      Unlike the previous Scotland Acts, the Scotland Act 2016 is all about ‘power sharing’. I happen to think that makes sense since Scotland does not yet have the power to negotiate treaties for example.

      I imagine Brexiters will be be furious with the speech.

    87. Giving Goose says:


      Hanging by a thread for those who can see, perhaps, but I believe that real evidence in the shape of hitting people in the pocket and jobs leaving the UK will be required to push the Yes vote over the line.

    88. Marie Clark says:

      Much as it made we want to be sick, I did listen to the Maybot.

      It was in turn, patronising, pleading and arrogant. Obviously had an acting coach to help her out. Schrodinger’s Brexit. It was awful, nauseatingly awful.

      It now remains to be seen what the response will be from the rest of the EU. Since she hasn’t really offered anything, I reckon that they won’t be too impressed.

      Will her cabinet now implode? I can’t see Johnstone, Gove or Fox being happy. What a feckin shower.

      Beam me up Scottie.

    89. Dan Huil says:

      Nothing new on Ireland from May. These British nationalists haven’t a clue. Scotland has to get out of this shitty union with England. England must not drag down Scotland to England’s xenophobic, short-sighted level.

    90. Graf Midgehunter says:

      @ Alex Clark

      “A reminder of the link posted by Nana 09:50 this morning on the last thread if you feel inclined to watch the Theresa May speech from Florence live.”
      I decided not to shorten my life-span or lose the will to live.

      It will probably get on to the telly news here, the comedy section with moderators laughing their socks off… 🙂

    91. manandboy says:

      Had remainer Theresa made this speech before EURef then things mibht have turned out differently, but at the time she had her skin to save and her PM ambitions to protect.

      Today, in a speech setting new standards in hypocrisy, Mrs May set out to protect her position as Prime Minister. She probably succeeded as her remarks were so imperial, colonial and superior as befitting a global leader with a glorious vision of a successful and prosperous new world order created and led by the British out in front of an inferior but useful EU.

      Can’t wait for the response from Europe.

    92. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      You are looking at this back to front @Legerwood says at 3:47 pm

      “Not sure I would say the pound has tanked.”

      Look at the last 2 years:

      1 GBP (£) = 1.3904 EUR on 31/05/2015

      1 GBP (£) = 1.1369 EUR on 30/06/2017

      And it’s been around the 1 GBP (£) = 1:08 EUR as you point out.

      Question is why hasn’t it tanked after all the calamitous Brexit Clusterf*cks (this Florence Speech being the latest of many)?

      Financial Markets HATE uncertainty so why is the £ vs Euro so steady despite this?

      “…when viewing a trend, is spotting when a price is under manual control. We come to this conclusion, generally, when the level of market manipulation eases above ridiculous. Such is the fable currently being fed by pound/euro movements.”

    93. Tam the Bam. says:

      For a commodity with only 10 yrs (ahem) life expectancy….

      BRENT CRUDE approaching 57$pb (56.80 @ 16-30pm).

      Looks like some investors don’t read the Yoon papers after all!….(or do and recognise a pile o’ keich* when they see it).

      *No spell-check?

    94. gus1940 says:

      The Maybot never fails to talk a load of patronising self satisfied arrogant woffling bollocks.

    95. manandboy says:

      Theresa continues to be cocky. But then who wouldn’t be with one of the richest countries in the world among your Colonies.

    96. Scott says:

      Tory MP did not vote in EU referendum because choice was ‘very difficult’

      Why no comments on this story on BBC if it had been SNP there would have been typical bias by BBC.Also noted that PO was quick to smack the FM down yesterday but lets the likes of Davidson down remember her “sit down” from her.

    97. Liz g says:

      Brian Powell @ 3.25
      I answered this question for you on the other thread.
      The Union can only be dissolved this way if the MPs are elected on a mandate to do so.
      Which in 2015 they were not.
      But don’t worry it is a failsafe option if they tried to pull the same shit as the Spanish government and try to not let us vote in Indy ref 2.
      We can have every general election as an Indy ref if we want to.
      So funnily enough Westminster’s best chance is to have and win Indy ref 2.
      Or risk a repeat of the 2015 election result but this time with a “we will resolve the Union if we are returned” mandate,at each and every general election.

    98. Capella says:

      @ Geeo 4.08 – Michel Barnier’s speech yesterday:

      Without a withdrawal agreement, there is no transition. This is a point of law.

      So no endless transition after March 2019 unless they all agree nicely.

      Did May say anything about the financial settlement? I didn’t hear it but I may have dropped off at several points.

    99. Liz g says:

      Me @ 4.56
      Desolve and not resolve the Union…. Kinda the same thing though.. LOL

    100. Alex Clark says:


      All I can remember her saying was that the UK would meet all it’s financial comments that it signed up to while still a member of the EU with regard to the current EU budget. She also said that no other remaining member state would lose out or have to pay as a result of the UK leaving.

      Not watching any of that again to check but it was broadly along those lines as I remember.

    101. galamcennalath says:

      .geeo says:

      The transitional stuff, imo, is to try soften the effects of brexit in the eyes of Scots.

      It becomes ever clearer that brexit has become about saving the union.

      I keep thinking the same. The GE might actually have been about trying to thwart IndyRef2. The council elections were fought on the constitution, FHS. The pro Union campaigning is relentless. Everything might actually be about trying to stop IndyRef2 and get to the next Holyrood election.

      On the other hand, there are those in the hard right who are desperate for a hard Brexit.

      Only the stupid don’t see that a Hard Brexit and a continuing are almost mutually exclusive.

      Perhaps that is the real split in the Far Right …. those who want to keep the UK together and will compromise on Brexit …. and those who put their xenophobic isolationist English Nationalism first before the UK.

    102. manandboy says:

      Statement by Michel Barnier. Brussels, 22 September 2017

      “In her speech in Florence, Prime Minister Theresa May has expressed a constructive spirit which is also the spirit of the European Union during this unique negotiation.”

      Here in the UK we havent heard “a constructive spirit” from the Tories in the past seven years as they have carpet bombed the poor with Austerity, and much else besides.

      Perhaps we should have been listening with the ears of a European diplomat. Or maybe after three hundred years of brutal treachery and deceit, we’ve misunderstood the true nature of the British Establishment.

      Or maybe the EU have had second thoughts having heard the terms of the bribe. Like in the Scottish Independence Referendum. Nothing is impossible.

    103. Capella says:

      @ Alex Clark @ Nana – thx – they will be chuffed about that in Europe.
      As Michel Barnier point out in his statement.

      David Davis and I will meet in Brussels next Monday to begin the fourth round of the negotiations…
      We look forward to the United Kingdom’s negotiators explaining the concrete implications of Prime Minister Theresa May’s speech.

      So do we all.

    104. Tam the Bam. says:

      Lesley Riddoch just featured in RT item re Catalan Indyref.

    105. Dr Jim says:

      Brexit? what’s that?:

      When things are very close up they seem very big but when they’re far away they’re very much smaller Dougal, explained father Ted

      That’s all I heard, apart from this makes it even closer to a general election and puts it right in the middle of Corbyns lap to force him to take a position from which the Tories will undermine him and will win again

      It also seeks to push the “Scotland” issue down the road a bit more and solves the immediate Norn Ireland problem

      I suspect none of this will work in the way the Tories are portraying it as if they’re doing the EU some kind of favour by offering to pay the bills they actually owe and giving THEM time as well (the EU should be grateful to the UK eh)

      All very carefully crafted see through childish drivel, but the English media will pump it out as good stuff for the benefit of the slow witted

      But remember you will be a saboteur if you suss it out

    106. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      You have to remember @Scott says 4:52 pm

      That Holyroods current Presiding Officer Ken Macintosh is an Arch BritNat.

      He is a poor successor to Tricia Marwick and has on more than one occasion in my opinion brought the Office of PO into disrepute.

      Complaints regarding his inability to fulfil his role impartially or indeed professionally get you a response reminiscent of if you’d complained to BBC Scotland about there bias.

    107. yesindyref2 says:

      From the Herald:

      Lord McConnell said: “My view at the moment would certainly be that it would be wise for her to park that [Indy Ref 2] for some time and to put at least a minimum number of years on it.

      “I would have said at least five, my own preference would be much longer than that, but at least five depending on public demand and circumstance.”

      Which tells us he wants it left until after the next Holyrood Elections as he thinks it will very likely then be much later with a unionist coalition in charge in 2021.

    108. Nana says:

      Well. The Prime Minister’s speech in Florence today was underwhelming at best

      Theresa May’s Florence speech: much ado about nothing

    109. yesindyref2 says:

      So having read Barnier’s statement, and the gist and particularly tone of May’s speech, my take is this.

      May pitched her speech at the UK, the EU clearly recognises the UK as the most important thing since flour was milled to make bread, and is falling over itself to make us a fair offer on our exclusive terms as it’s so sad we’re leaving, and will humbly fall all over itself to accept our offer which of course they will agree is absolutely fair.

      Barnier has recognised that May has pitched it this way for the UK market, and has happily ignored the tone completely. He has instead gone to the substance of the speech, which he expects will be clarified soon.

      The substance is unchanged from the EU point of view – no transitional single market without the 4 freedoms and the ECJ.

      What has moved one stage further is the likelihood of the 2 year transition being accepted by the EU27 so that while officially and definitely the UK Brexits on 29th March 2019, the UK will still effectively be in the EU without the voting rights, but will pay its contribution as agreed – the current 7 year legally agreed EU budget runs out in 2021 – while to all intents and purpose following the EU acquis.

      My take is that the EU27 will not “punish” the UK, but will be totally fair and just, including to the EU27 as a priority. They recognise that to “punish” the UK for leaving sends out the wrong message to the member states, but that the continuation of the EU for the EU27 is of vastly greater importance than the UK. The EU is playing an absolutely straight game.

    110. Gary45% says:

      The thing is, the SNP wear these things on a daily basis.
      The Superman suit because of the heroic way they run the country with ever increasing Westminster cuts, and the Invisibility cloak because the UK Empire media ignore every positive thing they do.

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh, and I forgot. The EU will not grant any extension after 29th March 2019, that will be the date of Brexit. And from May’s speech, there will be no “snap Brexit”. The UK wants (and needs) its 2 year transition, and will negotiate around this target, which has already almost been agreed in principle.

      So half the Brexit terms have been agreed, bar the detail.

    112. cearc says:

      R4’s PM prog seemed to think that the 2yr. transitional deal was a done deal ‘cos May said so. No mention that 27 EU countries would have to agree.

    113. Ian Foulds says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      22 September, 2017 at 5:42 pm
      From the Herald:

      “ Lord McConnell said: “?.. it would be wise for her to park that [Indy Ref 2] for some time and to put at least a minimum number of years on it….”

      Pray tell what does the ‘good lord’ know about the word wise?

      It certainly may be wise for himself and his disgusting cronies. It certainly would not be wise for Scotland or its people.

    114. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker @ 16:32,

      This very point of yours was covered in a short chat on CNN today with Quentin Peel (of thinktank Chatham House), and he explained that we are still in a “wait and see” period, where a lot of businesses are hanging on and deferring decisions in order to get a better understanding of what’s coming along, so the markets haven’t moved much yet.

      But the end of that period, he says, is rapidly approaching, and decisions will begin to be taken whatever. That’s when the hurt will really start.

      There’s been a slow leakage of jobs moving from London over the channel already, and of course EU institutions located in the UK are also preparing to up sticks, but you don’t here too much about that on the BBC. (Unlike in indyref1, where everyone and their dog was going to leave Scotland for London.)

      The same fella was being interviewed by Hala Gorani on CNN yesterday evening, and he was quietly scathing in his own understated English way about how the UKGov was botching the Brexit process.

      Maybe he will be back on her prog tonight to review “The Speech”. Could be fun!

      It was refreshing to see the matter discussed in a neutral, adult way with the BBC fact-filter removed. I should try to transcribe some of it, not having any obvious alternative right now.

    115. mike cassidy says:

      Yesindyref2 at 5.42

      McConnell is probably hoping someone can be ‘persuaded’ to build a great big PFI-funded prison in which to put indyref2.

    116. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 18:03,

      Yes, the request for a transition period was already well anticipated by Barnier & Co, the only thing that was unclear perhaps (in public anyway) was the length of time being asked. May clearly arm-twisted her rebellious buccaneers into accepting the full payment scenario.

      But the deadline for final decisions on how to proceed still remains 6 months before 29.March.2019, and the other main “pre-issues” such as EU citizens’ rights and the Irish border question still remain unresolved.

      The “punishment” aspect never was the EU intention. I think they believe that such punishment as will come, and come it surely will, will be entirely self-inflicted.

    117. Ottomanboi says:

      Scots need to re-connect with the world. The more parochial, the more the Unionist tendencies seem to increase. As a ‘cosmopolitan’ I often have to bite my tongue at the narrow view, exhibited even by some proclaimed nationalists, have of the world. The UK is a prison, a constraining ‘worldview’ prism, psychologically, culturally as well as politically. The new Scotland, culturally confident, must open to world. Insular Britain is an existential ‘ball and chain’. We need to get the Brits out of heads.

    118. Dan Huil says:

      @cearc 6:11pm

      Good point. Britnat arrogance and ignorance continues apace. And the britnat media supports her in that attitude.

    119. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ottomanboi @ 18:35,

      All very true. The UK has been an over-controlling partner, and that over the centuries combined with a backwoods mentality has been the main stumbling block all along.

      Many people are alas still afraid of having all the power exactly because of all the responsibility that comes with it. Easier for them to let someone else decide and then grumble incessantly about it afterwards. (And blame the SNP for not “mitigating” it all away!)

      It’s really a psychological problem, not a political one.

      (That’s incidentally why I think that well-directed humour could be the best healer.)

    120. Fireproofjim says:

      Tonight’s Reporting Scotland on the A9 dual carriageway works. There has been a four week delay in opening a five mile stretch due to necessary upgrades to the safety barriers.
      The reporter found an “ordinary member of the public” to give his opinion. Lo and behold in his lapel was a Union flag crossed with a Saltire. He was allowed to complain at great length as to how he had no faith in the SNP completing the rest of the road on time. They found three other complainers and a token contact who said it was not a problem and was better to get it right first time.
      Just the usual drip drip of SNP bad.

    121. Rock says:

      geeo (19th September – The warning notice):

      “There can be no such thing as a “snap brexit”.

      Article 50 is very clear that 2 years MUST pass before the uk leaves (brexit) no matter what WM says or does.

      Brexit date is known. March 29 2019, not before, not by even a minute.

      Rock has been told this SEVERAL TIMES yet STILL promotes this utter gibbering pish.”

      geeo says:
      22 September, 2017 at 4:08 pm:

      “and Rocks dream “snap brexit” could actually come to pass.”

      What a disgusting, dishonest person you are.

      Instead of admitting that what I have been long warning about is very likely going to happen, you spin it as if I am wishing for it.

      Rock (28th June – “Slight reprise”):

      “Admit it or not, the independence cause has suffered a major setback.

      The UK will have a “snap” Brexit while we are caught napping with no legislation in place for an independence referendum.”

    122. Rock says:

      Rock (19th September – The warning notice):

      “How can you claim that a “snap” Brexit cannot happen without knowing what a “snap” Brexit means?

      For your information, a “snap” Brexit means the talks between the two sides will collapse without a deal being reached, which is the intention of the UK government as the EU is not going to give in to any blackmail.

      The UK might technically remain in the EU until March 29 2019, but it will be de facto out.

      Scotland will be at the mercy of the Westminster government, with no official status in the EU other than a region of the UK.

      I can say with 100% confidence that Saint Theresa of England and Wales will deny permission to hold Indyref2.

      Do you believe that Nicola will dare defy her and call one anyway and risk a Catalonia like situation?

      I can say with 99% confidence that she will not.

      Catalonians have a spine, Scots don’t.”

    123. Alex Clark says:

      Until the stroke of midnight on the 29th March 2019 the UK will remain a member of the European Union and will comply with all EU laws including the four freedoms.

      Access to the single market will remain open, free movement of people will still be possible and the UK will stay in the Customs Union even if talks collapse before that date.

      You cannot be “de-facto out” only OUT and that will be not before midnight on 29th March 2019. No such thing as a snap Brexit, I can say this with 100% confidence Craig.

    124. schrodingers cat says:

      text of treeza may’s speech released

      I stand before you today in the historic city of Florence and a day like today is not a day for soundbites, really – we can leave those at home – but I feel the hand of history upon my shoulder, I really do. Today, England and its allies bask in the shadow of the great men and women of this city, whose sacrifice in deepest darkest Nambia, fighting the savage melon smiling piccaninis, leaves us with a debt of gratitude to Zebedee and Dougal which can never be fully repaid. Having tasted the local tap water, I am reminded just how great old blighty really is and I positively embrace our red white and blue brexit and look forward to the imminent arrival of petrified albion’s 2nd Empire. We’re going to cast off the chains of EU oppression and soar to a glorious new future as a world leader!
      I sincerely hope that Michelle Barnier and the other johnny foreigners in the EU negotiating team are willing to take onboard the UK’s reasoned and measured demands for a good deal, without which, no deal will surely follow. Do not underestimate the power of the English stiff upper lip as the krauts in this room will readily testify to.
      Brexit means brexit, and we English are at our most tenatious when our backs are to the wall, we are fighting drunk, our reasoning is faultering, our vision is compromised and we may fall over at any moment. So watch it!
      But we English are also a pragmatic people, we realise that negotiations are a process of give and take, we wish simply for you to give and for us to take. The Irish problem is easily solved by the ROI leaving the EU! See? Sorted! The issue of Gibralta has been momentarily lost down the back of the sofa but it too is not an intractable problem, let us not forget the daigo’s love for the delicious aroma of our innovative jams, after all, it was us who invented marmalade, (pause for audience to laugh at this light hearted wheeze)
      But we English wish merely to be left to enjoy our warm beer in the riff raff free sunny uplands of Hobbiton, rejoyce at the thwack of leather on willow, having our afternoon cake, and eating it, whilst watching re runs of strictly and the wizard of Oz.
      Strong and Stable and, above all, happy days are here again.

    125. Ottomanboi says:

      @Robert J Sutherland
      The psychological fear of taking responsibility for own actions, for being in control, is THE major stumbling block. For some it amounts to give ‘me independence, but not yet’ but for many it’s ‘never’.
      Having met the ‘type’ I wonder if a far stronger medecine isn’t needed.
      Viewed from abroad we do look ‘odd’ and also run the risk of not being taken seriously.
      We may need deprograming. The system has done a good job. ‘We’ have supplied the material for ‘our’ own imprisonment.

    126. starlaw says:

      I failed to notice any mention of the Irish Border. I’m sure this had to be settled before any further talks would be held. Perhaps May thinks the EU wont notice.

    127. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 22 September, 2017 at 4:15 pm:

      “There would be a referendum after Indy on the exact relationship we want with Europe after indy”.

      I could well be wrong but it is my impression you only get the option of three different types of relationship with Europe.

      Full and equal member state status, EFTA type Status where you pay the same, (almost), dues but get no say in how the EU is run and last but certainly not least no relationship whatsoever as you are an outsider and the direct competition to the EU.

      There are, mind you, “Associate Members”, such as I.O.M. & Channel Islands Bailiwicks who got in under the UK’s coat tails- which is yet another wee problem for the UK that never gets mentioned.

    128. yesindyref2 says:

      Fopr anyone who persists in talking about “snap Brexit”, here is the key term of the Article 50 which the UK invoked and is therefore fully bouhnd by:

      Article 50
      . . .

      3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

      So the UK leaves on precisely the 29th March 2019, or only earlier (or later) if a “withdrawal agreement” is agreed. The agreement would be between the UK and the EU27. If the EU27 don’t agree to the “withdrawal agreement”, the EU has effectively refused to let the UK go earlier, and insist it keeps to its obligations, including the other articles in the Treaties. It would be keeping the EU to the terms of the Lisbon Treaty the UK signed and ratified.

      The only way a “snap Brexit” could occur is with the EU’s full consent.

    129. The moment any of the Unionist politicians accept their Lairdship is the moment they no longer have a say in the Future of Scotland.
      Lord Jack’s opinion that we should delay Indyref 2 indefinitely therefore is of no value. He sold his soul to England. He is anti Scottish and a ‘tractor’.
      He should confine himself to his holiday home and count the great wedges of money he has garnered selling Scotland to the English.
      How could any FM ‘give back’ £1 billion to the English Treasury?

    130. Ottomanboi says:

      @Robert J Sutherland
      Furthermore, essentially a cultural matter, way beyond the standard sphere of conventional, utilitarian British politics.
      The UK has become a rather small, unhealthy pond.

    131. yesindyref2 says:

      Curiously on those two issues the EU isn’t in the right either. It’s trying to make the UK fully responsible, but it has just as much of a duty to resolve the status of ex-pat UK citizens, as the UK has to resolve those of EU citizens in the UK.

      And for Ireland it’s co-signator to the Good Friday agreement so again, if the UK drags its heels, the EU needs to take the initiative.

    132. HandandShrimp says:

      I am not sure I fully understood May’s speech. Would I be right in saying the summary is “OK, there is a fair about of wibble coming from the vicinity of Davies and Co and therefore we will pay £18b to extend the process to transition out less painfully and hopefully have something that looks sensible by 2021”

      The fact that Farage is incensed suggests that is the way the dice are falling.

    133. yesindyref2 says:


    134. yesindyref2 says:

      Sorry. @cat not @Heed

    135. Ken500 says:

      ‘Posh Pawn’ Channel 4 – Prestige Pawn brokers had a jet pack up for grabs 4 April show. £25,000.

      There was a buyer who pulled out. The seller did not get it sold at that time.

    136. Ken500 says:

      There will be another GE and the Tories will be out before anything is resolved. Their cop out. Off with all their loot taken from the public purse. It will be next up for the poison chalice to muck up again. Hopefully Scotland will be gone by then to a better future.

      The Tories could not make a bigger mess. The rest of them are no better. Pathetic.

    137. Alex Clark says:


      I think that’s exactly it. the UK realises that there will be no deal at all without paying the EU what they are due after agreeing to the EU budget for the years 2014 to 2020.

      Quite conveniently the proposed transitional period for a full UK Brexit would occur just 3 months after the end of that budget.

      I doubt this will be enough for the EU when you consider precious commitments made by the UK such as pensions for EU civil servants. Considering the UK’s total contribution for the year 2014 to the EU budget was £14 billion, I doubt very much if any agreement will be reached for a two year transitional period that doesn’t amount to at least £25-£30 billion.

      This won’t go down well at all with the most rabid Brexiters, looks like another crisis and eventually our state media will keep trying to convince us that “No deal is better than a bad deal”. Honest and hand on my heart LOL

    138. TheBuchanLoony says:

      With the UK being ‘out’ and having no veto on EU policy after March 2019. Whats to stop the remaining EU27 doing a ‘power grab’ on the Common Fisheries Policy to their benefit and detriment of the UK and Scotland’s fishing waters?

    139. Jock McDonnell says:


      Aye, the A9 is already 40 wasted unionist years late, 4 more weeks is neither here or there.

    140. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Has embdy seen Bugger le Panda in here recently?

      Just wondering…


    141. schrodingers cat says:

      @ian B

      he spends more time on twitter these days

    142. schrodingers cat says:

      so finally the uk has conceded in principle that it will need to pay something, albeit very late in the day, i doubt they will come to some agreed figure before the 8th oct, when barnier reports back to the 27 eu members on progress.

      no mention of eu citizens rights or a solution to NI border, without which, no talks regarding a transitionary deal can take place.

      grab a bag of pop corn

    143. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @SC –


      Just sometimes a name pops intae yer heid and ye think ‘uh-huh, whitever happened tae so-and-so?’

      Cheers anyway, I’ll go and check I’m follwing him.


    144. Brian Powell says:

      lord Jack McConnell, when he was FM, had the opportunity to represent Scots for the first time at the anniversary of the D-Day landings. I mean it was the first time there was a FM of Scotland and it was one of the big anniversaries.

      There were Presidents, Prime Ministers, Heads of State from the countries around the world.

      But wee Jack had been booked to give a speech at the Royal and Ancient Golf Club in St Andrews. Now if there was any group of people who would have understood him going to Normandy to represent Scottish men at arms, instead of speaking to them, the R&A members were that.

      But Jack, overcome with the recognition that a former County Councillor would get from being at the R&A, didn’t go to represent his country. His little Labour man mentality just couldn’t see the bigger picture.

      That’s Labour in Scotland faced with the big world.

    145. Capella says:

      @ shrodingers cat – brilliant! You obviously paid more attention to Theresa’s speech than I did. Caught the zeitgeist (oops foreign word) perfectly.

    146. Petra says:

      Next up!

      ‘British banks ordered to inform on suspected illegal immigrants amid Tory crackdown.’


      Alex Salmond will be delivering a speech on renewable energy at a major conference taking place at Dundee University.

      ‘On Friday 1 December 2017, experts from the renewables, legal, financial and political worlds will come together at the University of Dundee to explore the consequences of the United Kingdom’s departure from the European Union.’

    147. Alex Clark says:


      The best person to ask that question would likely be Bertie Armstrong, Chief Executive of the Scottish Fishermen’s
      Federation who commissioned a Professor from Dundee University to answer this question in October last year.

      Being a Professor the answer wasn’t short but here is a small part of 2 of the summaries of 3 questions put to him by Bernie.

      Question 1: Would (reciprocal) historic fisheries access rights in coastal waters survive Brexit?

      This question is concerned with the rights that five EU Member States (Belgium, France, Germany, Ireland and the Netherlands) currently have to fish in the 6-12 mile zone off parts of the UK. Historically those rights derive from the European Fisheries Convention, 1964.

      Legally, however, the only source of those rights since 1973 has been EU law, set out at the present time in Article 5(2) and Annex I of Regulation 1380/2013. When the UK leaves the EU, the UK will no longer be bound by that Regulation and therefore vessels from the five EU Member States will cease to have the right to fish in the UK’s 6-12 mile zone.

      Question 2: Have any fisheries access rights for non-UK EU Member States accrued in the UK’s EEZ (and vice versa) over the course of the operation of the CFP?

      This question is concerned with the opportunities that certain other EU Member States have under EU law at the present time to fish in parts of the UK’s EEZ, i.e. beyond the 12-mile limit, and whether the exercise of those opportunities has resulted in any rights accruing to the Member States concerned that will survive the UK’s departure from the EU.

      In my opinion, no such rights have accrued. The only basis for claiming that rights have accrued would be if it could be shown that historic rights had been created. However, the conditions necessary for the creation of historic rights have not been satisfied.

      To be honest if you yourself are in the fishing industry I’m surprised that these findings haven’t been communicated to you yet considering the paper was published almost a year ago.

      Now you can read the complete answer if you are interested anyway, very dry and academic but if my livelihood depended on the answer then I’d be reading it for sure.

      Welcome to Wings Over Scotland.


    148. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Schrodinger’s Cat –

      Cheers, I got him.

      You’re right – he’s having a rerr terr ower there, but he’s still keeping an eye on us all.


    149. TheBuchanLoony says:

      @Alex Clark

      Thanks for your reply but I was really raising the question regarding the forthcoming ‘transition period’. During the two years(or for however long), could the EU27 exploit the Common Fisheries Policy to their benefit and we could do nothing about it? During the transition period we would be bound by whatever policy conditions the EU27 decide and we would not have a veto. After we are completely out then, I agree, your question 1 and 2 replies above would be relevant. (btw I’m not a fisherman).

    150. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 20:59,

      On that conclusion I respectfully disagree, even happily allowing you the premises you mention.

      The EU’s attitude, namely: “you are creating all the problems, UK, and we have better things to do than waste our precious energies helping you sort out problems that are none of our wish or making”, seems to me quite appropriate.

      As an analogy, consider a bunch of people living in an apartment block. They all share responsibility for the condition of the roof. If a heavy gale comes along, they all have to chip in to repair it.

      On the other hand, if one flat-owner arbitrarily decides to remove the chimney stack wholesale, it’s not fair to expect all the others to help fix the wanton damage, is it?

      This is realpolitik in action, and the EU will do as little as necessary while never being deliberately obstructive, and allow a seriously divided UK to pay for its absurd neo-imperial pretensions. Just as the Americans did with Suez.

      (This is just a replay for all those BritNats who didn’t get the message the first time round.)

    151. schrodingers cat says:

      reply by guy verhofstadt to treeza

      Guy Verhofstadt

      Six months after the triggering of article 50, it appears that the position of the UK is becoming more realistic. Finally, the UK Government concedes a transition period will be necessary, as the European Parliament already indicated in its resolution of the 5th of April. But this transition or implementation period can only be a continuation of the EU acquis (‘acquis communautaire’); it will be impossible to cherry-pick. This means for example, with regard to citizens rights, that a new registration mechanism for EU citizens going to live and/or work in the UK is out of the question. Equally, oversight by the European Court of Justice needs to be secured for the entire transition period. It can never be allowed for the ECJ to be replaced by another dispute settle mechanism during our future relationship.

      The European Parliament has made it very clear from the beginning that for us it is: citizens first. We need to be very cautious, and I want to see how, next week, when the negotiations resume, the UK government intends to guarantee that the rulings of the European Court of Justice will be fully taken on board by UK courts. The protection of the rights of our EU citizens living in Britain must be absolute and beyond any doubt. I repeat that the new “settled status”, as proposed by the UK Government, is hugely problematic in that respect as it will create an enormous administrative burden and uncertainty for millions of our citizens.

      On the financial settlement, Prime Minister May brought some additional clarifications but also here important questions remain. While on the one hand the UK Government speaks of ‘honoring all commitments made during membership’, on the other hand the Prime Minister suggests payments will be limited until 2020, while the transition period goes beyond 2020 and some commitments will only produce payments after that date. The UK government will have to come up with concrete proposals next week, during the fourth round of negotiations to bring full clarity.

      Apart from citizens’ rights and the financial settlement, the EU always made clear that the Irish question is one of our priorities. I didn’t hear yet how the UK government wants to avoid a hard border or physical checks on the island of Ireland. This only seems possible if Northern Ireland remains part of the Customs Union.

      With regards to the future relationship, I heard a lot about what the UK doesn’t want (the single market, the customs union, the EEA or an FTA). I hope to hear from them soon how they see the “deep and special partnership” with the EU. I reiterate our opinion that an association agreement is the preferable framework to shape our future relationship. It is foreseen in the Treaty and can cover all sectors: from trade to research, internal and external security. However, full clarity on the essential elements of the withdrawal agreement and positive steps in the negotiations are needed before the Parliament can assess that sufficient progress has been made to open the negotiations on the future relationship.

      The EP Brexit Steering Group together with the EU negotiator will make a full assessment of Prime Minister May’s intervention, including the preparation of the next negotiation round next Monday at midday.

    152. galamcennalath says:

      Looking at EU reaction, now that there is more.

      They seem to be giving May latitude because they knew she was speaking mainly to a domestic audience.

      However, they seem disappointed (Macron) the three outstanding fundamental areas featured so little.

      In particular, they consistently say that Northern Ireland must be in customs union and single market (Barnier). Sounds fair enough, but the UK just isn’t facing up to this.

      Also the vague promises that no EU country will lose out financially does quite deal with the necessity of a lump sum playment.

      IMO the EU don’t sound impressed.

      The next negotiating round should be interesting.

    153. Alex Clark says:


      Can’t help you there I’m afraid, Michael Gove would seem to be the man to go to for an answer since he recently told Danish Fishermen that the UK was not capable of catching or processing all the fish in UK waters so they could help themselves to some.

      Well, that was the gist of what he said, the reality is that Fishing rights will be used as another Westminster bargaining chip to get the best deal for the City of London that it can to prevent Brexit meltdown on the UK economy.

      I’d guess that during any transition period then nothing would change. Just ask yourself how could it if the UK want the same access to the Single Market during the transition as they want now.

      Transition=No Change otherwise known as kicking the can down the road or pass the parcel and just hoping that long enough will pass and that your not the one left holding the parcel.

      We are all just but pawns in their game.

    154. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @SC –

      Hoots aplenty for copying in the Guy V statement, I probably wouldn’t have bothered looking for it.

      Very interesting, eh?

      These dudes ain’t fucking about. They’re calm, firm, know their facts. In short, they’re real ‘diplomats’ and probably wonder what on earth they’re dealing with when they see characters like Davies/Johnson/May turning up to meetings and/or bumming-up major ‘speeches’ where, as it happens, nothing new is said.

      The varied peoples of many nations all over this planet are enjoying this – the spectacle of English Tories humiliating themselves on the global stage they’ve always regarded as their birthright.

    155. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      TheBuchanLoony @ 21:30,

      The simple answer is “why on earth would they, even supposing they could?”

      The whole approach of the EU27 is basically a long sigh and a wish the UK wasn’t causing them so much unnecessary trouble. (But probably in private also becoming ever more relieved to be rid of a perennial damn nuisance.)

      This notion of a predatory EU you are examining is the darkness at the heart of many a Brexiteer mind. Which also lurks at the heart of every BritNat mind.

      As if those nasty furriners are all going to gather together in a smoke-filled room on the 29.March next year to work out ever more devious ways to further exploit us to high-heaven while they still can.

      This is the stuff of early 1900’s paranoid fiction like “The Riddle of the Sands”, not any kind of reality.

    156. Alex Clark says:

      @schrodingers cat

      Oh Dear I doubt that’s the reaction that the Tories were hoping for. Mays speech it seems has went down like a lead balloon with those that matter in the negotiations.

      Doubtful she will survive much longer after the Tory conference, we can but hope though that the worst British Prime Minister ever can hang on long enough to make Scottish Independence inevitable.

      Lots of klaxons sounding right now in Tory circles and the MSM.

    157. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      schrodingers cat @ 21:34,

      Many thanks for that interesting text.

      It contrasts very significantly with at least one pontification on CNN earlier this evening from that English Establishment prune, Vernon Bogdanor, who huffed that the UK couldn’t possibly accept EU judicial oversight for their UK-resident citizens during the transition period, since the UK would have already left by then, and there couldn’t possibly be two classes of residents (presumably “them” and “us”).

      His typically self-satisfied assumption was that the EU would simply have to accede to the UK over that one.

      These EE types really do all still believe that they are going to be able to cherry-pick their arrogant little way out of this one.

    158. schrodingers cat says:

      verhofstadt is sticking to the eu agenda

      1. pay up
      2. sort out eu citizens position in the uk
      3. the irish border

      it seems the uk is at least beginning to haggle over the cost, they may even concede to the eu demands regarding eu citizens etc
      but moving the border into the irish sea between NI and britain is a big problem for treeza. they have to agree to this in principle before the 8th oct……..

      if not, the next round of negotiations concerning transitional trade deals wont even start.

      hi stakes poker indeed

    159. Jock McDonnell says:

      Oh, so uk’s economic rating has been downgraded again !
      Not triple A. Shame.

    160. Polscot says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      22 September, 2017 at 7:59 pm
      Curiously on those two issues the EU isn’t in the right either. It’s trying to make the UK fully responsible, but it has just as much of a duty to resolve the status of ex-pat UK citizens, as the UK has to resolve those of EU citizens in the UK.

      I presume that by stating “the EU” you mean the remaining 27 members of the EU, excluding the UK? If so, I do not see how it is up to “the EU” to “resolve” the status of UK passport holders, or UK ex-pats, I have a UK passport and I live in one of “the EU” states, I have not been threatened to have my right to reside here, own property, run a business, nor have my family threatened with deportation, nor threatened with deportation myself.

      My current UK passport allows me to travel within the Schengen area without any problems. I can travel to the UK as a fully entitled member of the European Union. It states as much at the very top of my passport. Your UK is the one raising the threat of killing the right of where I choose to have my residence, conduct business, pay tax and raise my family. I would be very happy if you can show me where your UK Brexit negotiators have proposed that free movement of UK passport holders within “the EU” is guaranteed after Brexit.

      The status of ex-pat UK citizens is a problem solely of the UK’s making. Your UK can easily resolve this issue. Don’t try to lay blame on “the EU” for your UK changing the rules.

    161. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Ottomanboi

      ‘…cultural matter…small, unhealthy pond’.

      What exactly do you mean? And in comparison to what?


      @ Peffers, re: time travel

      There are some who doubt aspects of the theory of relativity (such as physicist Julian Barbour who wrote his PhD on the theory of relativity, and has written about ‘timeless physics’), and think there is no such thing as time in the way it is normally conceptualised. Above my head, though.

      On the subject of the limitations of the human body and suchlike, you should take a look at this ~5min clip of Brad Dourif pissing on fantasy-science chips, from Werner Herzog’s ‘Wild Blue Yonder’. Aptly titled ‘The death of a dream’. I think you might like it.

    162. mike d says:

      Aye schrodingers cat. Moving the irish border into the irish sea,effectively leaves Ireland and its 32 counties on its own. Wonder what Arlene Will make of that?lol

    163. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Polscot @ 22:21,

      I agree with you wholeheartedly, even though your initial quote rather seems to be putting someone else’s words into my mouth!

      (For my own view, refer to my reply @ 21:33)

    164. Alex Clark says:

      You have to ask yourselves about this “transition period” that Theresa May as UK Prime Minister is proposing and just why is it felt necessary.

      When we voted in 2016, getting out couldn’t have come quick enough for those voting to leave. Billions were going to come back to the UK that we could spend on our NHS, the rest of the world would be falling over backwards to offer us new trade deals and once again England, sorry UK could take her rightful place in the world without any foreigners to care about.

      Has the reality bitten the obsessives that wanted out? I guess it has for some but not enough. I really feel like I am watching a humongous car crash in slow motion. These people in these negotiations were elected by the public too egged on by the billionaire MSM and the state mouthpiece. I mean having Boris Johnson as your councillor never mind Foreign Secretary is a bit of a push for me. Most of them negotiating on the UK’s behalf appear devoid of substance or brains.

      I’m glad Scotland has woken up, give any No voter you know a shake and tell them. Look at the state of that lot!

    165. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Sorry, Peffers, this is the link:

    166. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m a one trick pony really. Structural racism is an unsavory characteristic of Anglo-American culture. 😉

      “I’ll get you for that you yellow monkey! Ugh! – Captain America.

    167. Polscot says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      22 September, 2017 at 10:31 pm
      Polscot @ 22:21,

      I agree with you wholeheartedly, even though your initial quote rather seems to be putting someone else’s words into my mouth!

      My apologies Robert, I didn’t mean to associate the quoted comments with your own sentiments.

      I do feel very strongly about the damage the UK Governments actions are having on EU citizens in the UK and how it may affect us immigrants (ex-pats in UK speak) into our chosen countries of residence. Blaming “the EU” for the UK’s decisions is beyond parody.

    168. Bob p says:

      Jock McDonnell 8.38pm. A9 40 wasted unionist years. AYE Jock,a bit like the A77 maybole by pass under slab. IM 64 now and slab promised this to us in maybole since i was a barn. No doubt now that it’s underway. They will be claiming credit just like the QC. The dirty sleekit snakes.

    169. Bob p says:

      Bop p. Bairn. Stupid predictive text lol.

    170. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Is that white guilt I smell, Cameron?

      Mind you, Chris Cairns’ recent ‘The nuclear umbrella’ cartoon has a pretty dodgy depiction of a Japanese man, so maybe it’s a good idea to bring it up.

    171. Legerwood says:

      Channel 4 news tonight. Matt Frei in Germany interviewed someone from the European Council about Mrs May’s speech.

      No comfort for Mrs May in this. Really worth a look if only for the interviewee’s opening sentence. It is a hoot. No comfort for May.

    172. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Polscot @ 22:49,

      Aye, the ripples are spreading ever wider and wider, and no-one can possibly pay attention to where they will all go.

      Unintended consequences, with a vengeance.

      I know others have said it already, but at times I can’t help but think, if we only had the problems of getting free of the UK instead, how relieved most of us would now feel (many no voters included).

      Though no doubt many folk would still be complaining about it all! =laugh=

    173. CameronB Brodie says:

      Reluctant Nationalist
      Not really. I’m afraid British culture really is pretty racist at it’s core. I have no guilt over this as I am not a racist and I do not accept responsibility the creation of this cultural condition. The thing is, structural racism expresses itself through scientific racism and so is at the root of many of societies inequalities.

      You’re unlikely to achieve inclusive social justice in such a cultural environment.

    174. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      The problem that people like @TheBuchanLoony has @Robert J. Sutherland says at 9:58 pm have is this:

      They think the EU will gather together in a smoke-filled room and work out how to shaft us completely because that is exactly how the BritNats do Treaties and business with “nasty furriners”.

    175. Old Pete says:

      Brexit looks like a disaster.
      Nicola needs to call a new Independence referendum for 2019, we have to pile the pressure on while the Tory government flounder with Brexit.
      Does anyone really think the Unionist parties and the Westminster government would actually attempt to stop it, after all the democratically elected Scottish Parliament has informed Westminster it will happen ?

    176. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “A9 40 wasted unionist years.” Aye agreed @Bob p says at 10:50 pm
      and @Jock McDonnell says at 8.38pm.

      You just have to look at Glasgow City Council “scandals” that are being pushed now by BBC/MSM.

      Labour led for 80+ Years and now they’ve been out since the 4th May 2017 it is suddenly:

      Glasgow Flat combustible cladding “scandal”

      Equal Pay for women “scandal”

      Not worth mentioning when Labour were in power and like crumbling PFI Schools, over budget and under delivered trams the involvement of Her Majesties British Labour Party in Scotland will not be reported by the 4th Estate.

      Just another day of EssEnnPeeBaad in North Britain.

    177. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker @ 23:05,

      I can’t speak for the fella fae the NE, but he may just be worried that too many of his neighbours up there think like that.

      (After all, you must never ask them in that corner “fa hingit’ the monkey?” =grin=)

      But it’s certainly my belief that BritNats are very inclined to project their own dodgy attitudes onto others.

    178. TheBuchanLoony says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker and Robert J Sutherland

      Chill guys chill! I obviously failed to get over to people that I believe the proposed ‘transition period’ is another example of the dire weakness of the Westminster negotiations. I was trying to highlight to any of the fishing community or farming etc that IF we were negotiating with a ruthless oponent then we could be in a vulnerable position for the duration of the transitional period. I was trying to highlight that we are very lucky that the people we are negotiating with are scrupulously fair and many times more capable than Westminster are. Next time I put my head above tha parapit and write something on here I will make sure I put my tin helmet on first!

    179. Polscot says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      22 September, 2017 at 11:01 pm
      Polscot @ 22:49,

      Aye, the ripples are spreading ever wider and wider, and no-one can possibly pay attention to where they will all go.

      Unintended consequences, with a vengeance.

      This is the truth of it. Making real people and their families the victims of ideology, unfortunately this seems to be very much an intended consequence.

      Anyhow, I live in hope of one day having a Scottish passport that ensures my existing rights as a European Union citizen. You guys who are active in Scotland to promote the cause of independence have my admiration and thanks.

    180. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      TIN FOIL HELMET surely @TheBuchanLoony says at 11:37 pm


      Nae offence intended dude.

    181. Bill Hume says:

      I’m 66 years old….the bloody weather has been terrible today…but.

      For some strange reason I feel more confident than ever that Scotland will win it’s independence in my lifetime.

      Maybe just me, but I think we have, as a nation, just passed the tipping point.

      I bloody well hope it is more than a feeling.

    182. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      TheBuchanLoony @ 23:37,
      Jockanese Wind Talker @ 23:43,

      Likewise, my friends!

      (“Tin hat”, though, in old army parlance. Foil offers no worthwhile protection whatever. No good on here, then! =laugh=)

    183. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Cameron

      Well, ‘race’ is scientific in basis, as an extension of taxonomic nomenclature, so I don’t see how else to express it, unless you just make something up. ‘Structural racism’ eh? Hmmm. Sounds like a nebulous dog whistle to get ethnic minorities growling furiously because they’re not an astronaut yet. Although, I suppose there must be some truth to it. The ‘anti-structural-racism’ industry must be quite a profitable sector to get into these days, for those who speak the lingo.

    184. Bill Hume @ 11:51

      I’m in your gang.

    185. Meg merrilees says:

      Interesting slip from Corbyn tonight!

      Jeremy Corbyn said power over decisions affecting regional development should pass to Scotland, Wales and English regions.

      So there you have it – we are just a region in his way of thinking…

    186. TheItalianJob says:

      North Sea Oil New Boom. Wall Street Journal Sept 19th 2017.

      For more than a decade, the North Sea’s once-booming oil sector was mired in decline. Against the odds, it has emerged as an unlikely bright spot in today’s stormy global energy industry.

      Investors have sunk more than $16 billion so far this year into European deals for assets mostly located in the North Sea, a flurry that far outstrips energy deal activity in all but American shale country and Canada’s oil sands, according to Edinburgh-based energy-consulting firm Wood Mackenzie.

    187. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Meg merrilees @ 00:29,

      I watched the clip, Meg, and I think the old codger is being very careful with sentence order and punctuation. He is clearly not saying that we are an English region this time.

      Personally I don’t resent his kind wish for powers to also devolve to English regions, even if it does have a whiff of EVEL-ish thinking about it. (Maybe that kind of “Scotland-Yorkshire” equivalencing was what you were thinking.)

      What the smooth-talking Brexit collaborator can’t offer, however, is that any of his cosy intentions will actually ever happen. Not if the Tories have anything to do with it. As for him and his party later, well…
      …who knows?

      It’s this kind of warm words masking hollow intentions that is so typical of the whole miserable Brexit shyste.

    188. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think your perhaps a bit out of date mate, “taxonomic nomenclature”. The concept of ‘race’ is a social construct, it has nothing to do with scientific classification of species. Sorry, but your quoting from the Big Book of Racism there. There is no significant genetic deference defining ethnicity, which are evolutionary morphological responses to local environmental conditions. We are all the same under the skin, or would you have us believe otherwise?

      Critical Race Theory (Third Edition)

      Glossary for Understanding the Dismantling Structural Racism/Promoting Racial Equity Analysis


    189. CameronB Brodie says:

      Reluctant Nationalist
      That previous comment meant for you.

      Listen. I’m not claiming I know it all but I have a specialist training as an enabler of sustainable communities. I also appreciate the importance of ethics, so try not to talk mince.

    190. William Wallace says:

      @ Meg

      Pit yir tinfoil hat on here fir this ane.

      Jezza strikes me as a single sleeper cell for Unionism and the establishment. A last resort in the event that the system looks like it might be breakin doon. 🙂

    191. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      CameronB Brodie @ 01:09,

      Back to OT, Cam, there’s a good fella, back to OT…! =grin=

    192. Donnywho says:

      On promises kept and broken.

      Aa2 the UK has just been downgraded for the second time! Down from the esteemed hights of AAA!

      But remember we were told that Scotland would be lucky to keep a AAA rating, so stay with strong and stable Great and Glorious Britain to retain your credit rating and keep cheep borrowing.

      Welcome the the Wiemar Republic, rising interest rates, a tanking currency, ineffectual government, systemic corruption,week leadership, productivity falling and a party looking for scapegoats for it’s failures!

    193. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland
      Oops. 🙂

    194. yesindyref2 says:

      @Polscot (and RJS)
      It’s not a question of “blaming the EU”, and not one either of “my” UK negotiators.

      Have you ever worked in a place where some of you are competent, and the rest are complete diddies? And to get the job done those of you who are competent have to basically speaking do all the work, even cleaning up after the usesless members?

      The EU too needs to get the job done, and faced with a totally incompetent set of UK negotiators will have to do most of the hard work itself, just to get the job done, and the UK safely across the road out of the EU without being run down by the traffic.

    195. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ CameronB

      That you’re an ‘enabler of sustainable communities’ truly shocks me to the core.

      I take it all back.

    196. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 02:00,

      I prefer my analogy. (heh, heh)

      But I sorta see what you’re driving at. A “hole in the boat” analogy rather than a “hole in the roof” one.

      But maybe I’m just being tempted too much by the thought of all those giant lorry snarl-ups on the motorways to Felixtowe and Folkestone on 30.March next year, and thinking what an enormous power of good that would do for indyref2…

    197. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 02:59,

      Sorry, 30.Mar.2019, not next year.

      The sands of time are running out for Brexitannia, but not quite that quickly! (Yet.)

    198. schrodingers cat says:

      Bill Hume says:
      For some strange reason I feel more confident than ever that Scotland will win it’s independence in my lifetime.

      Maybe just me, but I think we have, as a nation, just passed the tipping point.

      I bloody well hope it is more than a feeling.

      me too bill, our foe, the british state, is in the process of making the biggest blunder ever, what was it napoleon said, never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake?

      in the next few months, a window will open, i dont know when, but i have faith that nicola will chose the right moment.

      and we will win.

      have faith

    199. yesindyref2 says:

      I think the EU27 are astonished with the UK. And that what they want is the UK out, relatively unharmed and with no collateral damage, though I think they would accept a cancellation of A50. Which makes Barnier’s job facilitating that orderly exit, as well as representing the EU27. He’s competenet, May Davis and co aren’t, so it’s up to him to do all the ahrd work, and potentially the Commission in terms of, well, terms!

    200. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – BBC
      “but growing support for the far right AfD . . . could see them become the largest opposition in parliament”.

      Strictly true, but at 10.2%, having dropped from as high as 14.2% on an upwards trend in 2016, it’s not that noteworthy – except to the BBC of course, pushing a right wing agenda, though the AfD is likely to get representation. Results Sunday, not something we see in the news very much.

    201. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS / PolScot
      I’m trying to look behind the rhetoric to predict the outcome, and the dates, from the point of view of Indy Ref 2. It looks now certain to me that the UK will be out of the EU on March 29th 2019, and that this will be a 2 year transition ending in 2021 – the year of the Holyrood Elections.

      From remaining in the EU point of view, a holding pen, I think this could happen easiest via the Brexit terms of the Article 50 to be ratified by the EU27. Which would mean that in a very delicate timescale after the UK-EU27 negotiations are complete, but before they’re sent off to the EU27 to be ratified, Scotland could have a window of opportunity to announce Indy Ref 2 and its date officially, and for Barnier to get a provision in the Brexit terms for ratification – if there’s a will to do so.

      It could specify merely that while Scotland would have to go through the formal accession process this could be fast-tracked if suitable, and meanwhile Scotland would stay in the EU with the rest of the UK, but its status for the end of the transition period would be – uncertain, but different from the rUK and subject to further negotiations. Something like that, and of course it could all be pie in the sky!

      I like pie.

    202. yesindyref2 says:

      Just to add to that and monopolise the night watch, there’s going to be a section in the Brexit terms about Northern Ireland / Ireland, and there could be a small section added on about a possible similar situation for Scotland, with the forthcoming Indy Ref 2 and S30 consent from the UKG.

      The EU doesn’t interfere with member state constitutions, but it will have something about NI, and could therefore have a provisional about Scotland. Precedents would have been made, but with agreement from the UK – of course.

    203. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 04:08,

      Yes, timing is tight, but at first glance your reasoning looks sound, except I reckon the wished-for 2-year “transition” period would in effect directly provide the necessary holding pen (=ironic laugh=), the significant diff with rUK being that they would be on the way out while we would be holding steady in our own right.

      Given that we already have the aquis, and given all the positive noises that have been coming from the EU, I reckon 2 years would be quite enough to settle our situation. Directly after a win for independence, the EU would treat us very differently from then on in.

    204. louis.b.argyll says:

      A Scottish indyref CAN NEVER BE SEEN AS UN-CONSTITUTIONAL, unlike Catalonia.

      Scotland is an ancient nation state, in stasis, civilised, legally sovereign, and always has been ‘seperate’.

      Should T May deny the reality of the mandate by political maneuvering against our right to self determination..

      .Oh wait, they do this every day..

    205. yesindyref2 says:

      It could on Salmond’s type timetable make Independence Day Monday 29th March 2021 / Tues 30th depending on the actual minute of Brexit + 2 years. But on the other hand Scotland could maybe provisionally take over UK membership immediately after Brexit, and in any case Sturgeon isn’t Salmond.

      Scotland taking our own membership isn’t an enlargement of the EEA, and as far as I can see it’s Article 52 would need amended:

      “Article 52

      1. The Treaties shall apply to the Kingdom of Belgium, Republic of Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, the Kingdom of Denmark, the Federal Republic of Germany, the Republic of Estonia, Ireland, the Hellenic Republic, the Kingdom of Spain, the French Republic, the Italian Republic, the Republic of Cyprus, the Republic of Latvia, the Republic of Lithuania, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, the Republic of Hungary, the Republic of Malta, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Republic of Austria, the Republic of Poland, the Portuguese Republic, Romania, the Republic of Slovenia, the Slovak Republic, the Republic of Finland, the Kingdom of Sweden and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

      2. The territorial scope of the Treaties is specified in Article 355 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.”

      The number of MEPs would need to be determined, but there’s some other article specifying a maximum number which wouldn’t need changed. And budget negotiations for 2021-2027 would be affected, so perhaps the earlier the better for that, as it needs to change for the UK exiting anyway. Perhaps a parallel negotiation could be done to accomodate Scotland’s actual accession date – if any.

      I suspect the EU27 would want a confirmation referendum for Scotland, which fits in with the dual referendum I and others ahve suggested – first Indy Ref followed a few months later by EU Ref.

      It could be done, I think, if there’s a will from the EU27. It seems there is from some parties in the EU Parliament, perhaps even a majority, and to some extent they have control over the Commission to expedite matters!

    206. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      As for Anas (I took no personal remuneration) Sarwar putting SNHS 1st:

      No prizes for guessing how little coverage BBC/MSM will give this one from Nana this am.

      Perth Tory councillor appears in court after allegedly being caught with stash of child abuse images:

      Probably as much as they did for Labour Councillor Sean Morton:

    207. geeo says:

      Moodys downgrade uk credit rating due to brexit..oops…!!

    208. Meg merrilees says:

      Robeet J Sutherland – apologies for the late reply.

      Re Corbyn:

      Agree, I think he was very careful with his choice of words. He made his first comment and then tried to back track by re-stating what he’d just said, using the ‘Devolution’ word. The slip was there in his initial comment – first response.

      Of course he’s aware of rumblings in the ‘regions’ of England – especially his traditional voter base. And isn’t this lack of ‘local control’ part of the whole reason we’re in the Brexit mess?

      He’s a clever old fox but I still think we’re a region to him, likewise Wales- which is technically ‘a Principality’ in the literal description of the UK. (No offence meant to any Welsh readers and certainly not my view of Wales.)

      William Wallace

      Agree – I think he’s the last resort to try and keep Scotland.

      (t)Ruthless has gone incredibly quiet! Why? Has she been told to pull her neck in?
      She’s almost like a one-trick pony who’s forgotten what the trick is.
      Clearly the 13 useless Scottish tories wasn’t enough and look how successful a bunch they’re turning out to be. Arlene has stolen her thunder.

      Maybe the big push now is to try and increase the Labour vote including S Lab. Worst case scenario – a federal UK would ensure a union and re-Nationalising could bring us together ‘physically’.

      If Corbyn stands up for devolved powers returning, as they legally should, he could harvest quit a few more votes in Wales. Referring to Scotland is a red herring. He’s trying to shore up Wales.
      Be assured that first and foremost he acts for Jeremy Corbyn and Labour. Only SNP stands up for Scotland.

    209. Meg merrilees says:

      What is’ Treesa’ up to by ‘deferring’ Brexit two more years – that’s 2021.

      The whole supposed justification for the GE 2017 was to move back the GE deadline, prevent it from causing hasty agreements and give the gov two extra years to embed the resulting decisions.
      Now she’s moving it back to 2021, GE will be due in 2022… Something’s not right here!

      Is she going to try and stymie Holyrood in the Interim, using some twist in the Great Repeal Bill which is already on its way through WM. I don’t trust them one bit!

    210. Graf Midgehunter says:

      “I think the EU27 are astonished with the UK”
      May’s speech was quite widely reported on the news here (DE)
      but more with a sense of not really knowing why May traveled to Florence to deliver a somewhat strange mix of history and we’re leaving but we want to stay longer if you don’t mind.
      Here’s 20 billion to cover the costs…!?

      Someone else mentioned the UK decending down to the level of Mexico and Cameroon.

      10 days of waiting and then this, oh dear.

    211. yesindyref2 says:

      I was thinking of that great word “erstaunt” 🙂

    212. CameronB Brodie says:

      Reluctant Nationalist
      “That you’re an ‘enabler of sustainable communities’ truly shocks me to the core.”

      Care to eplain and expand?

    213. Jack Murphy says:

      Re posts/links by Nana at 8:52am this one particularly stands out with VIDEO CLIPS included from our very own BBC Scotland.

      “This is the first in a series of short pilot videos. The aim of the pilot is to demonstrate how a video based alternative media might challenge and weaken the hitherto impenetrable shield that surrounds BBC Scotland……..”

    214. Daisy Walker says:

      Nana’s link into BroadbandTVBroadcasting above is Very interesting.

      ‘A recent report by Expert Media Partners (EMP) entitled Brexit and the UK Television Industry provides good background to the EU licensing system and the changes that could happen. Looking at the EU’s Country of Origin (COO) principle, which is enshrined in the Audio-Visual Media Services Directive (AVMSD) and creates a common area for broadcasters, it says that most experts and industry leaders now agree that Brexit will put the UK outside the AVMSD and threaten the country’s status as a major TV industry hub.

      The figures the report quotes are quite startling. There are currently over 4,600 TV channels established in the main EU markets, with the UK having the largest base for EU-licensed channels. Indeed, of the 1,400+ UK-licensed TV channels, 1,023 are exported to the rest of the EU and other countries.

      The latter figure is almost nine times greater than second and third placed Germany (143) and the Czech Republic (141), closely followed by France (133) and the Netherlands (114).’

      Is it possible this is going to kick the BBC where it hurts. Anyone able to explain this further.

    215. Ghillie says:

      Nana @ 8.53 am

      Thank you as always for giving us all those helpful links =)

      I would like to highlight the article in the Orkney News by ALEC ROSS.

      An excellent synopsis of and very clear thoughts on events since 2014.

      Perhaps especially helpful to new readers = )

    216. Rock says:


      “Until the stroke of midnight on the 29th March 2019 the UK will remain a member of the European Union and will comply with all EU laws including the four freedoms.”

      Sure, like it has complied with all the terms of the Treaty of Union in the last 310 years.

    217. Ghillie says:

      Jack Murphy @ 1.14 pm Thank you and Nana = )

      Watched and enjoyed!

      This pilot video from NEWSWATCH SCOTLAND is a great beginning.
      And another source I recommend to new readers 🙂

      Keep the fire to their feet!

    218. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rock at 7:06 pm.

      You typed,
      “Sure, like it has complied with all the terms of the Treaty of Union in the last 310 years.”

      JEEZ! You’re struggling for stuff to paste now, iye?

    219. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Daisy Walker @ 17:27 (23.Sept),

      Can’t help you there, except to recall a very interesting article by Gordon Guthrie in the last Bella included with The National, which took a very different look at matters Brexit from all the usual political stuff, namely highlighting the reason that so much technical stuff functions so smoothly across the whole EU is because of a vast web of interlinking technical standards and agreements.

      (Or just useless oppressive “red tape” according to the Tories.)

      It’s worth a good read for anyone who may have missed it:

      Oh, and just to heap more on your rightful concern, Daisy, (sorry!) this is just the beginning. Brexit, if we are foolish to let the UK drag Scotland through it, will be chock-full of unintended and unexpected consequences.

      The Great English Takeover Bill (or whatever it is now called) is merely the first spasm. The ripples will just spread and spread…

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