Letters to the editor
Posted on
October 07, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
From today’s Daily Record:
Better late than never, eh?
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07 10 14 16:01
Letters to the editor | FreeScotland
Ignored
There’s lies, lies and erm…..lies
There are two possible explanations for this letter. First, he could be genuinely annoyed that he was misrepresented by Channel 4 News and then by Ed Milliband and the Daily Record. Alternatively, he could be indulging in a bit of damage limitation now that, from his perspective, the referendum has been won. He might be seriously concerned about a boycott from Wingers and other Yes voters.
I’m not sure which it is.
I still can’t figure out, why prices would increase. The logistical costs would be broadly the same, unless fuel costs south of the border rocketed. It’s not as if we were going to sail the Scottish landmass of to a sunnier destination; it was our political landscape, we were trying to make sunnier.
Oh, better late than never, right enough.
Too little too late DR. See ya…
Nice to see he made such an effort to clarify this before the referendum.
@ JimnArlene…..off not of……doh…
Iceland is an Independent country that knows how to deal with corrupt bankers and fraudsters.
If he has any sense, Malcolm Walker should shut up before people start banging on pots and pans with metal spoons inside his stores.
Damage limitation, too late, Iceland boycotted we should be organizing yes meet ups in their car parks
Words fail me…time for this rag to go…NOW
Apt phrase of the day…
Moral Bankruptcy
Noun:
the state of being devoid of morality and ethics, used esp. for business and political entities
Examples
A complete lack of morals is moral bankruptcy.
Inclined to take his letter at face value. Saw him in another – live – interview on C4 in the final week, with Matt Frei. Answered one question with the word “bollocks” Seemed a very straight talker, not a respecter of politicians. Admitted that the poss of a Yes victory was something he had not seriously envisaged before, but that if it happened, he and his 2000 employees in Scotland would just “get on with it”.
Frozen shit no more…
I’m sure the part of the interview edited out wasn’t important otherwise it would have been in, right?
I’m off to buy some magic beans.
oh diddums, is the boycott starting to bite 😀
“Mum’s gone to Iceland”
…hurled abuse and walked out again.
Are the businesses that used fear tactics by insinuating price rises in Scotland snd other punitive consequences now trying to claw back the customers who’ve deserted them.
In seems in the above example it may have been a case of deliberate misreporting, and there may be others, however, any company who tries to rewrite history now by claiming they were misrepresented when clearly they were aiming to frighten voters is now worthy of severe approbation, and I hope their profits suffer even further as a result.
You have met Gerald Ratner, haven’t you Mr Walker? He has lots of other good ideas for increasing business.
Sorry to go ot so soon, but have a look
http://socialistpartyscotland.org.uk/2014/10/06/open-letter-members-snp-cuts-lets-build-mass-movement-defeat-austerity/
I have never been in an Iceland shop. His damage limitation only increases my desire never to go there. I will by-pass it for Aldi and Lidl who seem to be able to handle this foreign thingy without any trouble.
Is this a case of the DR misrepresenting Iceland or is it a case of Iceland back tracking?
Have you tried the hot and spicy chicken fillets?
very tasty!! And more interesting!
The Daily Record represents the third leg of the evil, incestuous, triumvirate of unionism in Scotland, the other two being the BBC and the Labour Party. All three must be undermined. All three are already weakened.
The question is, do we organize an immediate boycott of the DR (putting an end to its misery), do we wait until it is obvious the VOW they published has been broken, or do we just sit back and watch nature takes it’s course, and watch it endure a slow, agonising death?
I’m quite happy with the latter approach.
Sales are obviously falling. I for one will never ever go into an Iceland store ever again. The family are the same, never been since the owner pitched up with the most dogmatic statement in support of NO.
Boycott Iceland….. go to Farmfoods every time.
Too late, Iceland, your smeared with the toxic ‘NO’. This actually just makes it worse. You’re on the list, the ‘Hell Will Freeze Over List’. Oh that’s handy… Iceland, its cold shoulder time from me and mine. Same for Record which I never bought anyway, to be honest. JUst the right size for a cat litter tray though…. PURRRRRRRRRRR.
Luigi says:
7 October, 2014 at 4:12 pm
I’d rather the DR was binned instantly,in the alternative as soon as possible
Cuilean
That’s not cool for cats, trying to defecate on the DR makes me constipated
Let’s hope private walkers rocks, ahem, melt in the sun
Maybe the Record held it back until now!
Is it dated? Mr. Walker perhaps wrote to them immediately after the broadcast but it got filed somewhere in error and…
Naw, he has noticed shifts downward on his bottom line!
Businesses, banks, media, actors based out with Scotland all felt that they should stick their oar in!
Hell mend them!
Unwarranted interference, against UN regulations on self determination.
Would mass protest outside one of icelands stores damage walkers business and send out a message to companies for future referendums?
They might not be so keen in future to blackmail their own customers
Well I guess that Iceland are feeling the pinch, they’re on my boycott list along with Sainsbury’s, Asda, Grants Whisky, Tunnocks, B&Q, RBS, the BBC and all of the so called Scottish papers with exception of the Sunday Herald, which I have now begun to buy.
The BBC and the so-called Scottish rags have been on my boycott list for a long time, they’re not so lonely now. I stopped paying the BBC license in October 2010 and have been license free since April 2011 with no problems and all my TV’s now connected via PC’s.
These organisations are all anti-Scottish working with the dark Lord Cameron to subvert Scot’s rights and it is my choice to take my business elsewhere… and I will.
Think this is bullshit from the Iceland boss. I’m pretty sure his interview was live. How could there be a part not broadcast? Think this is him backtracking after some backlash from the No vote.
? 3:03? 3:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Wi962WDJM
12 Sep 2014 – Uploaded by TopTellyFan
Matt Frei interviews Iceland boss Malcolm Walker about Scottish Independence and whether …
For many years there has been a close relationship between Daily Record journalists and Labour Party politicians in Scotland, and a revolving door between newspaper staff and Labour advisers. Helen Liddell went from being General Secretary of the Scottish Labour Party to being Robert Maxwell’s Head of Corporate Affairs at the Daily Record (1988-1991). Tom Brown worked as one of the Daily Record’s highest-profile columnists (1982-2003) and served as its political editor, before advising his friend, First Minister Henry McLeish. Paul Sinclair was political editor of the Daily Record (05- 07), before becoming a special advisor to Douglas Alexander, and then to Gordon Brown. He has been Johann Lamont’s special adviser and official spokesperson since 2011. Labour peer, and former MP and MSP, Lord Watson of Invergowrie has reflected that ‘the one paper no Labour MP or MSP can afford to ignore is the Daily Record’.The Daily Record spearheaded the “Keep the Clause” campaign which aimed to prevent the Scottish Parliament from repealing Section 28. This law prevented local authorities from promoting “the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship” in state schools. Section 28 was repealed in Scotland in 2000 by 99 votes to 17 in the Scottish Parliament.
Does it say when he sent the letter?
Boycot Iceland now
Personally I would rather wait until the ‘VOW’ has been officially broken. They will all have pushed the self destruct button anyway after that happens.
Popcorn at the ready!…
The Daily Record
BBC Scotland
Scottish Labour
The Scottish Political Holy Trinity.
They are all linked by two words,
“The Vow” or “Project Fear” or “Vote NO” or “Better Together” or “Lying Scumbags” or …
If you are associated with any of the above three in any way, please dis-associate yourself from them as soon as possible.
Dump them and keep on running the other way.
As Jimmy Reid would have said,
“They left us (for London Rule), we didn’t leave them”
He needs to brush up on his legal acumen. Insist in writing prior to interview that only whole questions and whole answers can be published/broadcast.
Stuart, perhaps you could help him out there. Email him a copy of your terms and conditions as per mail interview.
The timeline’s not clear about who complained when. What we don’t know is whether Iceland complained to C4news immediately after the broadcast. And we don’t know how long the DR has kept Walker’s letter hanging around.
I RTd this pic earlier on @yeswestlothian and Krishnan guru-murthy has responded to say he’ll check what happened.
But IF Channel 4 news broadcast the ‘added costs’ but not the ‘we’ll absorb the costs’, as Walker suggests, then one has to ask why. A pity – as C4News was among the fairest of the indyref reports.
I think this needs to be examined properly. Walker of Iceland said he would “panic”, and blasted Sillars for his “Day of Reckoning” on C4. He then, however, went on to say later that “prices would not rise”. He, though a Unionist, did not directly create the scare story.
On the 12th Sep, the Record reported him accurately, but without the “no price rise pledge”. As did the Herald. Both conveniently skipped the bit about that, they lied by omission.
On the 15th Miliband deliberately lied about the price rises, including Iceland with Waitrose. The Record then fairthfully reported what Miliband said.
The one to boycott here is Miliband, not for this incident at least, Iceland, though they could have been quicker doing their denial of course, how convenient. They could have put up a poster in all their stores in Scotland, as well as issuing a press release.
The Record and Herald are guilty of poor reporting standards – who knew?
@ Ron Burgundy
Farmfoods is also based in Scotland and as far as I know use a lot of Scottish produce.
They also do not use Horse meat which was found in Iceland produce.
Schrödinger’s cat
lets build a mass movement to defeat austerity, it is we who set the agendas!
i want indy today, i’ll take @ 2016sge.
a dual ballot.
i want a defence force, with nil attack, dump nukes and a uk wide binding ref should we invade other countries or not?
power devolved is power retained, nothing by end feb 2015 on devo absolute max, then forget it.
yes for sure, as many pro indy, anti imperialist mp’s/msp’s as is possible
Is there a definitive list somewhere of which businesses actually came out for No?
I don’t want to spend any money in these places but when you try to google it you mostly get denials from certain supermarkets etc that they said any such thing.
I don’t buy the Daily Record or shop at Iceland. In fact I make an effort to avoid all unionist supporting companies and their products.
Point is though folks, how do we stop these companies undermining another bid for independence in the future?
We do this by damaging these companies, mass demos in the car parks, narrow angle photos showing 20 people looking like many more, make it local and make it personal, hurt them where it hurts, do not allow these people to blackmail us again
Can we have a list of companies we should be ALL trying to avoid?
It would be very helpful.
I hadn’t seen the interview until it was linked by Schroedinger’s cat, I had been prepared to give Walker the benefit of any doubt prior to this but after watching the interview no chance. He was both patronising and condescending so if his bottom line has dropped because of his smart ar** comments he has only himself to blame
OT – Westminster bows to pressure to debate more powers
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/oct/westminster-bows-pressure-debate-more-powers
gillie says:
7 October, 2014 at 4:44 pm
Can we have a list of companies we should be ALL trying to avoid?
It would be very helpful.
Aye – does anyone have a link?
OT
So if you want to get the EU to at least talk to you, this is what you do.
http://euobserver.com/economic/125937
Might also work with ADA, John Lewis, RBS, B of S etc
So, Mr Iceland, the reason you didn’t demand this be published the day after the Record’s story is…?
Farmfoods is almost as good as catchup telly.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc. plans to eliminate health insurance coverage for most of its part-time US employees in a move aimed at controlling rising healthcare costs of the nation’s largest private employer.
Starting Jan. 1, Wal-Mart told The Associated Press, the company will no longer offer health insurance to employees who work less than an average of 30 hours a week.
The move, which would affect 30,000 employees, follows similar decisions by Target, Home Depot, and others to eliminate health insurance benefits for part-time employees.
Schrödinger’s cat:
Let’s hope private walkers rocks, ahem, melt in the sun
Ouch! Dadsarmy is clutching his stones 😉
From the SSP open letter: “Our view is that the new members of the SNP will not find a party leadership prepared to lead a mass campaign against austerity. Indeed, the SNP in power have implemented every penny of the Tory cuts since 2010 in Scotland. Another cuts budget is planned by John Swinney and Alex Salmond in a few weeks’ time.”
Eh? The SG has very limited power to borrow, that’s the reason for Independence. Swinney wanted to borrow £billions to fight austerity in iScotland. He’s constantly slated Osborne – as have I – for his austerity measures. It builds a poor and more unequal society, AND reduces GDP or slows its growth.
It looks like the YES Alliance has lasted 2 weeks.
So, everything they said was a lie? Should someone now collate the ‘Big Book of Scare?’. Maybe also the big book of lies? Is there an election coming up, oh yes, so there is. That’d be a good time to hold this stuff up to the light of day. All the lies, the suppressed stories, the threats and smears. Will they be stupid enough to think it won’t bite them on the arse?? Oh yes they will..
So guy from iceland says No Price Increase, its reported incorrectly and when he raises his annoyance, we call for a boycott and give him pelters for
A: Taking too long!
B: Saying other stuff we didnt like!
Comne on now folks, your better than that and none of us is buying our Quinoa from iceland these days anyhow!
As the whole world now knows; that when oil prices go up and down, it is always bad for Scotland, but nor Engerland. This is known as English logic. And gullible Scottish stupidity.
Scotland is self sufficient in food and drink, in surplus. Why would food prices go up? Scotland only has to import fruit. Does that mean Scottish consumers have to pay transport costs to process plants in the south and then back again. They should only pay one way.
@yesindyref2
All wee need is the SSP saying “Yeah but they could have sorted out the Bedroom Tax already!” and the shark is jumped.
http://blacklistscotland.wordpress.com/
Here’s a list of companies I’ll never use.
http://blacklistscotland.wordpress.com/author/blacklistscotland/
Why does Westminster have to debate more powers? People want all powers and they want them now. That was the promise.
It’s not too late to pick up a bargain;
http://thescottishscaremonger.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/dont-miss-scaremonger-stock-clearance.html?m=1
Apologies and hugely off topic, but on the subject of boycotts and so on.
RBS.
I am with them still. I need to change though. Can anyone recommend a decent bank to join?
@yesindyref2 – Well I hope that’s not true but if it is – the SSP have history of cutting off their nose etc – remember their problem with Tommy Sheridan, which to my knowledge has not been resolved.
If that’s the way they want to go, they will find themselves out in the cold – RIC have a big influence so it might be up to them to push the more leftish ideas.
Only the deliberately blind would not know that the SGs hands are tied re funding – that’s what we’re trying to resolve.
It’s also not true about passing on all cuts – they mitigated the bedroom tax but the money had to come from somewhere else.
Fred, it isn’t enough to stop buying their product, we need to mount a concerted and consistent campaign of the most negative type against these companies, if you are meeting up with any yesnp groups to canvass or leaflet, make sure you you meet up in the car park , and take some photos of the group protesting in front of the company and then share it on social media.
PS sorry to get back to the story – if the Iceland boss was misrepresented then instead of writing a letter- he should have demanded another interview with C4, so I think it’s damage limitation
Lanarkist at 4.21:
That was my take on it. DR does not tend to date its letters so entirely possible they sat on it until they could slip it in unnoticed. Maybe Mr Iceland could be asked when he sent it to them?
I will never purchase another item from ASDA. The top a list of companies which will never receive a penny of business from me.
I have a particular disgust with ASDA so they top my list.
Okey Dokey folks.
Never bothered shopping at Iceland or asda for that matter. Farmfoods because they sell plenty of Scottish goods. Co-op used to do local stuff but that’s no obvious anymore.
Joined the SNP today and the numbers were in the high 80,000’s i’m hoping to get the 88,888 number. I’m an old soldier and numbers are logged away in my head quite quickly. That one would be a dawdel to remember.
I think the SNP membership will eventually make 1k easy over the next few months. They will get my vote in the G.E as they have the numbers to do a job over Labour. It’s important that we hammer these buggers. Do that and we are on our way.
I like the SSP and will hopefully vote for them in the S.E 2016. But it would be nice if we had an alliance against the union parties. The vow will be discarded once the Election is over and that’s all the ammo we need. WM lie -fact.
Even the hard nose unionists will have no answer when we are forgotten. An Alliance will offer the chance of a tactical vote too and i will vote for ANY independence party.
Still pissed we missed the chance to putting all the energy to building a new country but that will come now. I’m sure of it.
Indeed the whole union now looks out of date and undemocratic. Why have the union ??? What do we get that we could not get on our own…?
Bring the house of Labour down, bury in under that cairn Rory the tory (tried) to put up. And watch as the rUk bring in UKIP .
I always believed there was some good in this union till i came on Wings ETC. Once your eyes are open you cannot close them again.
Any news on setting up a Wings cafe or something like an Alliance cafe. I would support it and it would bring many commenters together face to face. It’s a real tonic when you meet the faces to the Nom de plumes.
Last Wings do in Edinburgh gave me a huge lift. I thought only a few would turn up but there was over 90 that night. And a fantastic experience.
first time i have ever been to a political/internet gathering. It’s proof we are never alone.
O/T
“Hope Over Fear Rally” Sunday 12th Oct 12 noon George SQ, Glasgow.
http://www.new.solidarityscotland.org/
also Gail Sheridan gives us a wee reminder,
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gails-gab-i-am-excited-for-the-hopeoverfear-rally-in-glasgow.1412672490
Show this “NO” Mob that we are still very much alive and kicking.
Sorry about the private walker reference, lol
Oh I noticed that reference to borrowing, couldn’t miss it, I was trying to encourage the ssp to send over leaflets to distribute in nef, they can take a flying proverbial now,
I hope the SSP and their trade unionist activist dissolve in a puddle of tears for trying to split the Indy vote for their own grubby political self interest.
They only wanted an alliance party so they could high jack it for financial gain
Hell mend them
Another example of how to keep the masses ignorant, fearful, and compliant consumers.
Of course, the media that broadcast half his sentence are laughing up their sleeves as the guardians of democracy.
Had a lot of problems with my pc lately.
DDOS attacks who knows but i fixed a lot of problems by downloading firefox and an adblocker.
I also got Superantispyware free download and watched as it found hundreds of faults that my usual PC protection missed.
Since then i scan once a month but have had no problems. I post on Wings and it’s there in seconds.
had too much trouble with Chrome. It’s has it’s supporters but not me.
Anyone having trouble can do as i did and see if it helps.
@Faltdubh
I am in the process of moving from RBS to Airdrie Savings Bank (much more ethical/no shareholders etc) branches in Airdrie, Coatbridge, Bellshill, Shotts, Muirhead, Baillieston, Motherwell and Falkirk.
Provide all the services of the “big” banks.
Luigi says:
7 October, 2014 at 4:49 pm
gillie says:
7 October, 2014 at 4:44 pm
Can we have a list of companies we should be ALL trying to avoid?
It would be very helpful.
Aye – does anyone have a link?
——————-
List of endorsements in the Scottish independence referendum, 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_endorsements_in_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
Yesindyref2: On the 12th Sep, the Record reported him accurately, but without the “no price rise pledge”. As did the Herald. Both conveniently skipped the bit about that, they lied by omission.
You first sentence is lethally misleading. You go on to prove neither newspaper reported the Iceland boss ‘accurately.’
In any event, why did he make the announcement in the first place if not to cause doubt?
@liz
Yes, I think it’s damage limitation. He’d have been able to get air time if he wanted. Anyway, we use Farmfoods, haven’t been to Iceland for about 25 years, don’t like it.
Later in the SSP open letter it is better, but while being part of the YES Alliance, they need to set out good left policies as much as anything to stop the SNP going too left – which will antagonise their centre and moderately right members. After Scotland gets Independent mayhem can break out as much as we all like, with Florence, Dougall and Zebedee setting out their wares and shouting for us to jump on whatever part ot the Magic Roundabout we want, and it’ll be a laugh, laugh, laugh.
Until then we all need to work together for the main objective.
That link from Sch’s Cat is NOT to the Scottish Socialist Party, i.e. the SSP, of which myself and Ian Brotherhood are members.
It is to the Socialist Party Scotland, the Scottish wing of the UK-wide Socialist Party (used to be the Militant).
There is no link between the SSP and the Socialist Party except that many of them used to be members of the SSP but jumped ship to join Sheridan’s fan club when he left the SSP.
I forgot Dillon, how could I forget Dillon?
@yesindyref2
Can you please provide a link to the SSP “Open Letter” that you quote from. Ta.
I don’t think it’d the SSP but the Socialist Party, Scotland.
I just searched for both online and they are different parties as far as I can make out.
http://socialistpartyscotland.org.uk/2014/10/06/open-letter-members-snp-cuts-lets-build-mass-movement-defeat-austerity/
Lifted straight out of the DR splittist c*nts trade unionist SSP section.
“Socialist Party Scotland is calling on all councils in Scotland and the Scottish Government to set no-cuts budgets. Immediate cuts can be avoided through the use of reserves and borrowing powers, where appropriate, to give time to build a mass campaign to win back the more than £3 billion stolen since 2010.
And join with us in the struggle for an independent socialist Scotland. Which would be a step towards a genuine voluntary and democratic socialist confederation with England, Wales and Ireland as a step to a socialist Europe and beyond. ”
For the 1000 odd new SSP members, …..someone just ran off with your dues
I remain unconvinced that an Iceland boycott (or of any retailer, for that matter) would be productive, at least in the short-term. If/when we get Devo Max, a competent SG will be able to demonstrate that the sky isn’t going to fall in upon independence. The words of of overblown grocers will mean less to fewer people. Protests, however, would let the MSM paint them as victims.
Is that what we want?
I’m all for blacklists, boycotts etc – and a couple of folk have posted lists already. What I would find useful would be something a little more positive.
So many companies were coerced/bribed/sweet – talked into opposing Scottish independence that a list of pro-independence companies would be useful if such a thing exists. Including the banks/building societies who resolutely refused to cave in and oppose independence.
with regards to banking: I am too far to use the Airdrie Savings Bank so who was neutral? Nationwide? Santander? Pensions providers?
It’s easy to find out who not to use but a little more of a chore to get recommendations. Any ideas?
And any firms who raised their head above the parapet and supported Independence for my country – well they deserve our support, don’t they?
O/T I caught the very end of an interview this morning on five live(yes I know, bbc!) breakfast show with Nicky Campbell, I think, and someone from the daily record. They were talking about ‘the Vow’ and how they were going to make sure it was kept , I think.
Did any one hear it or can anyone find it for me on tinternet? I’ve tried but no luck.
@Schrodinger’s Cat –
To confirm what David Stevenson said above:
That outfit whose letter you linked-to has nothing to do with the Scottish Socialist Party, and was not part of the Yes campaign.
I think some of the companies who supported NO are beginning to feel the consequences. On top of the (now proven) lies by politicians, we have ammunition for the next referendum (whenever that may be). MSM & businesses will be less likely to take a political stance, now that they realise that their interference will affect their customer base.
Alex
Sure, it was Schroedinger’s cat posted it:
http://socialistpartyscotland.org.uk/2014/10/06/open-letter-members-snp-cuts-lets-build-mass-movement-defeat-austerity/
Skip_NC
Whether it is productive or not I don’t want to give support through my spending habits to companies who actively opposed independence for my country. Seems fairly straightforward. And if we can support businesses that supported us (sunday herald being the best example), well, maybe those at the top might act differently in the future.
Capitalism is all about choice, eh?
http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/10/07/deal-or-no-deal/ tells it as it is. british imperialists brimps or cyberbrimps for short, 0 cybernats, 1.
There is no link between the SSP and the Socialist Party except that many of them used to be members of the SSP but jumped ship to join Sheridan’s fan club when he left the SSP.
Except solidarity and Sheridan are not splittists
Time to put up or shut up SSP
I offered to distribute leaflets for the ssp in nef, for the 2016 list seats,
What’s the ssp,s position
@Schrödinger’s cat & yesindyref2
Thanks for the link, proves conclusively that the Open Letter has absolutely nothing to do with the SSP.
Lets not do their job for them, those that wish to create divisions amongst the pro-indy parties and Yes voters in general.
Do not therefore be too quick to jump to conclusions else you just make the establishments job easier. We can and will work together.
Rog_rocks @ 4.27pm
Add John Lewis and Marks and Spencer to your list of companies to avoid. Also no more fuel purchases from BP. Why should we support these friends of The Union. Not one of them will see a penny of my hard earned cash ever again. Their attempts at distorting the democratic process in Scotland were successful in some incidences, as I came across several people who were convinced prices would rise if we voted YES. As far as I’m concerned these companies should not benefit from this outrageous behaviour, but I know they will. Asda is already lined up as the only store where poor people on benefits will be able to “spend” their food vouchers (to be given as a replacement for cash benefits).
Let’s hit Asda and the others where it hurts.
I read to the end of the SSP letter and it gets worse:
“Will voting SNP next year deliver indy
No. It’s clear that the SNP won’t stand for the Westminster election on a pledge of another immediate referendum. The argument we hear, including unfortunately from prominent socialists like Tommy Sheridan, that voting for the SNP will help bring another referendum by 2020 is wrong. “
Without the SNP, the vote in a referendum would never get above 50%, not if one was held every year for the next 307 years. In fact it needs more of that comfortable but cautious centre-right to get above 45%, not less.
For Heaven’s sake fight it out after Independence, not before. That is the path to sheer madness and Red, Blue and virtually extinct LibDem Tory Unionists laughing laughing, all the way back to Westminster, again and again and again.
Now here’s the thing, what concern would it be of a government in a possibly soon-to-be another country has with supermarket prices in an independent Scotland? Does Westminster care about prices in Ireland, France, Belgium or even Norway? Of course not.
This is how independence was stolen from us, the argument or big vision of self determination with a written constitution which would herald Scotland’s arrival on the global stage was whittled down to supermarket prices and how much would a fucking postage stamp would be.
The referendum forced Scottish people to look in the mirror for the first time in a very long time and we discovered that most of the electorate are frightened, selfish and narrow-minded sheep. And the reason they won is because they are led by frightened, selfish and narrow-minded politicians who can take the most important decision in the history of Scotland and fracture it down to millions of microscopic level grey-suited faux arguments designed to steamroller anyone who couldn’t think beyond watching Strictly Come fucking Dancing every Saturday night.
… and we all got dragged down in the mud because that’s where Britain is, that’s what Westminster has become and that’s where Blair McDougall resides. Politics is a war of attrition, politicians are trench fighters constantly looking over their shoulders. If we are serious about kicking out Westminster and unionism from Scotland then we have to get mobilised and that means we have to be more clever and devious than the troughers and their minions and learn from the mistakes that were made. As someone said we can’t just leave it to the politicians, we have to take action ourselves.
We are angry and that anger should be focussed. If we are to tackle unionism then a concerted effort should be made in getting 20,000 letters written and sent to Mr Malcolm Walker of Iceland and steamroller him and all the CEO’s of those companies that spoke out either through barefaced lies or through collusion with Westminster. Every single one them from Asda to Tunnock’s should be made aware of the ‘displeasure’ created by their conduct and how in 20,000 letters their products or business will not be given credence again. The maybe they’ll get the message!
Mr Walker, we shall start with you, and if you have problem then see your pals in the Labour Party and Ch4 who dropped you in it.
malcolm.walker@Iceland.co.uk
CEO Malcolm Walker,
Iceland Foods Ltd,
Second Avenue
Deeside Industrial Park,
Deeside, Flintshire CH5 2NW
Dear Sir,
I am writing to you today to convey my displeasure at your company’s (Iceland Foods Ltd) stance in the Scottish Referendum campaign. It is stated by Ed Miliband and others that you were concerned that an Scotland would have increased consumer prices if the electorate voted YES for independence.
It is in my mind that businesses should not intervene in the democratic process. If you feel that you and your company was misrepresented by broadcasters and politicians then why did you not publicise such misrepresentations before the referendum vote?
Because of your company’s intervention in the Scottish Referendum I have decided not to shop at Iceland in the future.
Yours sincerely,
Schrödinger’s Cat: Would you like to retract the comments you made about the SSP and make clear your error? That letter you link to is not from the SSP. Your comments about Sheridan and Solidarity are refuted by the facts of that organisation’s genesis btw.
As a member of the SSP myself (and I’ve heard the same sentiment from others), I always felt very sidelined in the Yes Alliance.
There was always a feeling that they needed organisations who were good at getting people out there doing stalls and leafleting and public meetings.
But at the same time they didn’t want to give us too much exposure in terms of what the core SSP policies would be if we succeeded in gaining independence and then had SSP candidates standing for election in Scotland.
Yet even though we felt snubbed most of the time, we stuck to the agreement that we would fight for a Yes vote first before campaigning for ourselves.
Just saying, I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about the SSP…
And, back on topic.
In Saltcoats, they have an Iceland store right next door to an Aldi store.
Sometimes I actually forget the Iceland one is there. I’ve been in it twice since it was first built (and both times didn’t find what I was looking for anyway!)
yesindyref2: That letter is NOT from the SSP. Read comments above from myself, Ian Brotherhood and Alex Clark.
Except Sheridan is not calling for an alliance party, the ssp and the ssp are?
Ian Brotherhood
looking back I totally missed the “Socialist Party Scotland” at the top 🙁
My humble apologies for getting ranty.
Sps
Skip_NC 5:38pm
The point is that companies,newspapers,etc, were all actively engaged in trying to influence voters to vote No.
Some CEOs and directors gave their personal views to which they are entitled.
Some of these companies are now trying to back track to protect their brand.Its all abou reputational damage limitation and sales.
As far as the politicians and MSM are concerned, we the people of Scotland are on their case and the clock is ticking,indy ref 2 is on its way.
So the ssp and the ssp are different parties, who knew, appologies
What is the ssp,s position on standing candidates in 2015?
Schrödinger’s cat says: 7 October, 2014 at 4:08 pm:
“Sorry to go ot so soon, but have a look
http://socialistpartyscotland.org.uk/2014/10/06/open-letter-members-snp-cuts-lets-build-mass-movement-defeat-austerity/
That’s the start of the cracks beginning in the Independence Movement. I might have guessed that bunch of SSP losers would be in at start of divide and conquer tactics. The have some form, Just ask Tommy about that.
Where do these SSP numpties imagine the Scottish Government is going to obtain the cash in order to NOT implement the Westminster Establishment cuts? The facts are plain for anyone, short of total morons, to understand. Westminster controls the cash flow for running Scotland and so Westminster dictates there must be cuts. The only thing Westminster does does not control and dictate is what, or what not, gets cut. That means they dictates that there must be cuts. Why would any sane person give ear to this lame gang of idiots?
Don’t they understand the , “Gift”, of only certain taxes for Scotland is a cynical CUT in Scottish funding? First of all Holyrood must set up a Tax collecting system, a department to administer it and a further department to police tax dodgers and to punish them. Plus a section to adjust any mistakes made by the tax gathering department and make refunds. This will also require the purchase of computer equipment and somewhere to house it and Engineers to run it plus software and software engineers. They will be lucky if the result is not a bigger cut in income than the projected Westminster cuts in the Block Grant and the abolishment of Barnett’s formula.
Gary I like the idea of a book. Titled ‘I Smell Shite’ with all the politicians broken promises and business threats of company closures that ended up happening anyway. We could get it ready for Christmas as a stocking filler. 🙂
Anyway. Mums gone right off Iceland.
@Robert Peffers
“That’s the start of the cracks beginning in the Independence Movement. I might have guessed that bunch of SSP losers would be in at start of divide and conquer tactics. The have some form, Just ask Tommy about that.”
You actually know what went on back then?
Besides, as has already been mentioned above, that link is NOT the SSP!
DR mr peffer
My apologies for misleading you
Apparently the sps is different from the ssp, although Sheridan has said something with regards the yes movements forward plan
Then again the gaping hole left by the ssp wrt making any fuckin announcement what so ever, about what their plans are, leaves the field open for others to speak for them
If in 3 days they announce they are standing in the 2015 ge and trying to split the vote, don’t expect to see them on wings again
http://scottishstatesman.com/nicola-sturgeon-independence-when-not-if/#.VDQcPwfrH4o.twitter
“Carmichael said it is “disappointing” that Sturgeon and the SNP have not ruled out pushing for another referendum within the next three years, quoted as saying: “There is still time for her to clarify that she will push for no such thing. And I hope that she will take that opportunity.”
it is the people of scotland who will decide how and when indyscot is achieved and not our political servants.
NO vote is non binding, only YES vote is!
imv it will be sooner rather than later.
there can be no reconciliation with liars, only with those who have been duped by lies.
It’s very hard to find any sort of forgiveness for those who have sold out their country. Perhaps on Independence Day I will make a conscious effort to move on and put all the bad thoughts behind me. I refer not to the No voters who were duped, but to those who abused their power by scaremongering and deceiving.
Still, we have developed a family joke. While out driving, when we see someone doing something thoughtless or stupid, the standard phrase is “must be a No voter”!
@Schrödinger’s cat
Link please to where the SSP are calling for an Alliance Party.
You know I would suggest that you acknowledge your error in attributing this “Open Letter” that you have ranted about as being the work of the SSP.
Else you cannot fail but to come across as someone whom for whatever reason who is trying to sow division.
It is you that should put up or shut up, you have done enough damage already.
I already did appolegise
And if you want a link to the ssp calling for an alliance party, ask Ian brotherhood yourself, he is reading this thread
Over to you mr brotherhood
Schrödinger’s Cat: The SSP conference is in Edinburgh at the end of the month. It is open to all members, though I expect the venue was selected before the recent surge in membership. I would expect a position on next years’ general election to be agreed there.
Historically, we have stood candidates at General Elections as a means of maintaining profile and giving socialists a candidate they could vote for with some enthusiasm. We fought 10 seats last time and got pumped everywhere. No surprise. Colin Fox was interviewed for Scottish Independence Podcast (Michael Greenwell?) and sounded keen to maintain the Yes Alliance. You could go there to listen to his view. To be honest, the SNP hold all the aces there, so what happens is more down to them if you ask me. Time will tell.
@ Schrödinger’s cat 5.34 pm
Please try and read the actual name of the originators of the “open letter” to the SNP. It was from a bunch called the Socialist Party Scotland or SPS, who have no connection with the Scottish Socialist Party or SSP. Given that, I am sure you will wish to retract your ill-informed remarks about someone just running off with the SSP dues.
@stonefree says: 7 October, 2014 at 4:18 pm:
“I’d rather the DR was binned instantly,in the alternative as soon as possible.
My old Grand Dad had a saying at the farm if anyone tried to stop me getting up to my ears in something messy, (before the days of Tractors). “Ach! Leave the laddie alain, it keeps him oot o the road o the cairts”.
May I suggest that we leave the Daily Record, staff & readership, alain to get on with it, “Oot o the road o the independence cairts”?
Ian
Any news of the Ayr Yes meet? If you’ve already posted on it – just give me the co-ordinates. Ta.
(I didn’t finish work until 7pm yesterday)
Fred Blogger:
The people of scotland will decide how and when indyscot is achieved and not our political servants.
Good man!
Dear Robert Peffers: Would you like to withdraw the various disparaging remarks which you directed at the SSP, because you are talking complete shit.
As to your comments with regard to Sheridan, you clearly know nothing about the events.
@Schrödinger’s cat
Why should I “ask Ian Brotherhood” he wasn’t the one to make the statement you were. Were you just making it up? Your wee joke eh!
Please provide the link if you have one.
Btw Alex, I did offer to distribute ssp leaflets in my constituency for the list vote in 2016 , I did this in an attempt to keep my local yes group together and cross party, as far as I’m aware, every vote in a list seat counts.
No reply from any one in the ssp
I repeat my appology for confusing the ssp and the sps
However the only reply we have had from the ssp is to tar Sheridan with being a member of this group, when Sheridan has already backed the snp in 2015
I repeat
What is the ssp,s position mr Stevenson?
@John Kerr
Re John Lewis they said prices would ‘diverge’ or be ‘different’ he never said Higher that was the BBC reporter who used their anti Scottish dictionary the liars.
Truth frozen out – AGAIN! Why has it taken so long to discover this? Lying by omission is still lying.
Misleading people in this way shows how low journalistic standards have been allowed or encouraged to fall. Impartiality, veracity and honour have clearly been deliberately ‘frozen out’ in favour of overt bias.
Readers must adopt the good journalistic approach of evaluating sources and reject this determined effort to mislead and negatively influence the democratic process. It has been enacted by a ‘source’ which is bereft of professional or human dignity.
This is a crime against democracy, the voters involved and an openly immoral abuse of power.
Link please to where the SSP are calling for an Alliance Party
Did you not say this Alex, ?
I pointed you straight to the horses mouth,bask mr brotherhood, it was he who was on this thread calling for an alliance party only a few days ago, do you want me to post a link to his own comments on wings?
He is reading this thread, he can comment for himself
@Robert Peffers
You have been duped by an utter falsehood, I thought you were wiser than that. I suggest you read ALL the posts.
I already have Craig
Dcanmore: Because of your company’s intervention in the Scottish Referendum I have decided not to shop at Iceland in the future.
Great letter. Well done.
Where has it all gone?’ – grousebeater.wordpress
Watch it boys, we are developing into the Peoples’ Front of Judaea etc.
Schrödinger’s cat
I did the same as you, didn’t bother checking the party, and went off the rails.
I was shocked precisely because the SSP were a strong part of YES, and after the Referendum very active organising getting back together again to keep the momentum going.
I think they were strongly involved for instance in the Ayr Toon Hall meet of YES yesterday, which I guess was a success (couldn’t get there myself).
Once again my apologies to Ian, and the others who corrected the mistake.
@Schrödinger’s cat
More obfuscation, Ian Brotherhood is a member of the SSP and holds no office. It is therefore his personal view, do you make up SNP policy on the hoof?
Are you a confident of Alex and Nicola and anything you post on Wings should be taken as “official SNP Party policy?
No I thought not, my best guess is that your just another fool embarrassing themselves on a public forum by linking to lies and stating it as truth.
To be honest, the SNP hold all the aces there, so what happens is more down to them if you ask me. Time will tell.
The tail does not wag the dog
There is a vacuum, you are being asked to fill it. Your turn. The people will not be happy to travel to your conference and be told you are standing against the only Indy party of making a difference in 2015
If you intend to split the vote as well, just say so and save your new supporter the train fare
Schrödinger’s Cat: I gave you a reply. The SSP is a democratic organisation. The membership will decide. Sheridan can say anything he likes. Is he speaking for himself or is he telling Solidarity what the line is going to be?
Btw, I can’t find any quote above which suggests that Sheridan is a member of the Socialist Party. If you are referring to my post, I say nothing of the kind. Everything I have said is factual. You certainly can’t say the same.
@Schrödinger’s cat
More obfuscation, Ian Brotherhood is a member of the SSP and holds no office. It is therefore his personal view, do you make up SNP policy on the hoof?
Ian brotherhood is a founding member of the ssp
His opinion is worth far more than my mere membership of the snp
Don’t call me a fool again alex
Eh, it was you who told me that the sps had defected to Sheridan, ????
Craig: It was from a bunch called the Socialist Party Scotland or SPS, who have no connection with the Scottish Socialist Party or SSP.
Natural annoyance aside, the stoniest face has to acknowledge the inherent comedy in the confusion … derived from Python’s ‘The People’s Front of Judea,’ and ‘The Judean People’s Front.’
@Schrödinger’s cat
I apologise for calling you a fool, that was foolish of me. I personally will be supporting SNP in 2015 as that is the only sensible option at this time.
The other sensible option is of course to form a loose alliance around those that do support Independence. The SNP do not have exclusivity within Scotland on this point of view.
Sales must be down for Iceland, and now Mr Walker is kind of back tracking on his original words, no doubt Mr Walker took the side of the Westminster politicians when he made his “Faux Pas” statement, but that’s no excuse on his part.
More sinister though was the Daily Records participation throughout the Scottish referendum, their sheer bare faced bias in favour of the union, really showed. Of course the Record now claims to fight for extra powers, well its to little to late, as Record sales go into freefall.
Boys of the various Liberation Fronts please put your handbags down, kiss and make up – I have a community council meeting to go to and I don’t want to be sitting there worrying about you
Dads, I have already apologiized 3 times for making the same mistake
I have even tried to correct mr peffer on his comment, based on my mistake
But the PFOjudea and the Popular front of Judaea are now on my case
All I asked was for the ssp to clarify its position. Have been accused of lying when saying that the members of the ssp on this blog have called for an alliance party, which Ian brotherhood did,
I noticed Ian is very quiet, why don’t you speak to Alex?
Schrödinger’s cat: Founder members of the SSP have the same number of votes as any other member: one.
If you want an opinion, I can give you one, but I don’t speak for the SSP. Go listen to the podcast I referred to if you want a feel for how Colin Fox views things. He only gets one vote too btw.
My prediction is that the SNP will not support a Yes Alliance or Yes Party and that they will stand 59 candidates. It will then be up to the SSP and Greens to decide to stand or not.
Phew, apologies accepted and returned in buckets Alex
@yesindyref2 says: 7 October, 2014 at 4:46 pm:
“OT – Westminster bows to pressure to debate more powers
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/oct/westminster-bows-pressure-debate-more-powers“
As long as Westminster remains the de facto Parliament of The Country of England and as long as those 533 “UNITED KINGDOM”, MPs from English constituencies continue to wear two parliamentary hats I, for one, cannot accept less than full independence and an end of the bipartite United Kingdom by disuniting from the Kingdom of England.
This is because Westminster has split the former bipartite Union into a quadratic union of four countries with England now the master race ruling over the other three countries.
Mr Iceland has previous for belatedly changing his stance when negative consequences start to appear.
Not that long ago, a couple of freegans were arrested for climbing into a locked yard at the back of an Iceland store in London (Caledonian Road, I think, which is oddly appropriate) and retrieving edible food from a skip there.
They were detained at a police station for a considerable period, and as the outcry built up, Malcolm Walker suddenly discovered that he really, really didn’t want them to be prosecuted. I don’t think he had made any earlier statements to the contrary, but after he intervened they were rapidly released. He may even have agreed to make an effort to avoid throwing out food that could have been passed on to food banks perfectly legally, but I’m not sure about that.
A proper journalist would have asked which of these main costs would go up in an independent Scotland & what would cause them to ONLY rise?
1. Labour- a function of market forces
2. Business rent/rates – a mix of market forces & local gov policy
3. Energy (mostly electricity) – largely driven by global commodity costs & long term government strategy
4. Sales & Marketing (Ads/leafleting/vouchers/incentives etc)- entirely at Iceland’s discretion
5. Food & packaging – a function of raw material & energy costs
6. Food storage, transport & distribution – a function of location, distance & energy costs
7. VAT – set by national government
8. Corporation tax – set by national government
As you can see, any one of these costs could go up or down & is dependent on any number of factors, some in the control of Iceland, some in the control of local/national government & the rest as a consequence of local & national market forces.
But no one can predict the future with a high degree of certainty so to suggest that one or more of these costs can ONLY rise in an independent Scotland is simply stupid.
Afterall, the SNP have made much play out of reducing corporation tax in a short term attempt to attract new businesses to Scotland.
And since none of Iceland’s stores would be physically further away from anywhere else after independence, it’s not reasonable to argue that transportation & distribution would necessarily cost more.
It would only take a national government in Scotland to mitigate VAT or fuel duty or change the rate of National Insurance to REDUCE the cost of doing business in Scotland.
But according to Unionists, EVERYTHING in Scotland will cost more even though under the slightest of scrutiny, that prediction is as reliable as a car made in Britain.
All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, whisky, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the SNP ever done for us?
The aqueducts Conan
You forgot the aquaducts
Completely OT, someone earlier mentioned an alternative bank to any of the ones that supported NO. Would it not be a good idea to have a true Scottish Bank that we could all use so WHEN the next referendum comes along we could have total independence from rUK and savers and pensioners would have no need to worry about their money as it would be secure in a proper Scottish Bank. The only option at the moment appears to be the Airdrie Savings Bank, which for folk living in Dingwall, The Islands or other far flung corners of Scotland is not so handy. This I feel should be at the top of Scotland’s To Do List
BBC nonsense about tax and Westminster. They really are the pits. No mention of Oil revenues or having power over spending. No Trident or illegal wars saving £1.5Billion. An Army and Navy based in Scotland giving the economic benefits. A tax on ‘loss leading’ cheap alcohol would save £1.5Billion.
Danny Alexander cost Scotland £4Billion by increasing Oil tax revenues 11% (£2Billion) up to 90% in the 2011 Budget.
Add it up with the £3Billion that goes to Westminster £10Billion. Plus the taxes on economic activity that goes through UK London based HQ’s.
The Scottish Gov should make sure every school student knows how the Barnett Formula operates. Modern Studies.
On the subject of representation at Westminster – I’d rather have the brightest political brains in Holyrood doing a proper job than having to wander in and out of lobbies and bars.
@Schrödinger’s cat / Alex et al
Probably the best ‘mini’ spat ever witnessed on WoS; guys you did make us chuckle, glad to see all is sorted … phew !
BOLLOCKS!
http://tinyurl.com/nfnxbwz
Allegedly….
Mr Stevenson
This thread is not without merit
You and mr brotherhood are at the center od ssp policy making, I’m my position of mere membership of the snp, my voice is lost in the plethora of 1’s and 0’s
But I have been delivering leaflets from the ssp, the greens and lfi for the last 2 years, indeed, the only political party whose name and logo did not appear on any leaflets was the snp’s. I’m sure we all know why that is, but my offer was to continue this practice with my local yes group, this way we could promote the ssp and green candidates for the 2016 list vote and that their message vis a vis fracking, cuts to pensions, is just as valid as the snp,s. Know this mr Stevenson, ukip will have a job fending of the bnp where I live, the ssp don’t stand candidates in nef, but if you stand against any snp candidate anywhere in Scotland in 2015 , my local yes group will fracture and disappear. Think very carefully about what you choose to do when you meet up for your conference
Schrödinger’s Cat: I stated that the only link between the SSP and Socialist Party Scotland was that some members of the latter were members of the SSP until they left when Sheridan did. That is a fact. They have in fact operated together electorally in the past through the organization referred to at the foot of the link you posted: The Scottish Trade Union and Socialist Campaign (STUSC). Brian Smith and Angela McCormack were both in the SSP but left and joined Solidarity.
You are killing me gordez
We need a Left Wings over Scotland pub booze up soon
All much of a muchness, I use the Bank of Ireland, RBS and the Clydesdale ….of that probably Clydesdale
Why can’t you lot call yourselves the Continuity, the Real, the Single Dosser, and the I Don’t Give a Fuck, SSP.
Much easier to remember.
Tatu,
Airdrie Savings Bank are members of Confederation of British Industry,who actively campaigned for a NO vote.Im currently with RBS,which Im very uncomfortable about,but I haven’t found an alternative Id be entirely comfortable with.Has anyone got a suggestion?
I’ll second that Bugger.
Schrödinger’s Cat: I attended a post-referendum get-together of Yes Rutherglen where I was (tongue in cheek) offered an SNP membership form. Instead, I gave them my contact details and an offer to leaflet for them at the GE. I wouldn’t do face to face campaigning because I don’t like a number of SNP policies but I know there is only one candidate with even an outside chance of unseating Tom Greatrex and his 19000 majority.
As I said, I don’t think the SNP will go for a Yes Alliance. What is your opinion?
About the piss up I mean…
@Tam Jardine says: 7 October, 2014 at 5:39 pm:
“With regards to banking: I am too far to use the Airdrie Savings Bank so who was neutral? Nationwide? Santander? Pensions providers?”
Tam, The Airdrie have on-line banking.
Just Google and read their pages.
I’m going to go and write ROMANS GO HOME in five foot high letters all over the wall. (I’m only little, so that’s as high as I can reach). I think we should reclaim all the land down to Hadrian’s Wall and rebuild it. 🙂
SPS = Splitter Party of Scotland
B-E-E-F!
http://tinyurl.com/ptcu6aa
Well, that’s the Irish innit…
Walker was on C4 news snearing and a jeering at Scottland as an independent country just prior to 18th, so god only knows what he is up to with this letter, Never going in his shops again that’s for sure.
SSP peeps
The SNP have to remember that their membership has more than trebled because of YES, and that YES was / is cross-party, no party. They’ve already made noises that non-political party YES organisations such as WFI can be affiliates, but so far haven’t tackled the SSP or Greens.
I’m going to tackle the local rep on that, and point it out. It’s very possible though that the SNP will need to wait until their (whoops our, I’m new too) conference in November to take a position on that.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/10/07/on-organ-donation-and-lies/
Another interesting letter sent to but not published by the UKOK propaganda machine.
Yes alliance.
You mean disbanded the snp so that they can reform with a party that got 2000 votes in 2010?
Um, let me think, ……nope
Spend the next 6 months arguing with the judean people’s front about who will lead this alliance and who will get the keys to the mini van..? …..nope
This thread here is proof that the alliance party idea is wrong. Sps ssp, real socialist etc…
Even if we return 57 ssp mp’s to Westminster, will that bring about a socialist revolution? Nope,
Even if we return 57 green mp’s to Westminster, will that save the planet…nope
Even if we return 57 snp mp’s to Westminster, will that bring about independence?….nope
Indeed, if lab Tory ukip get a majority, we might as well send cardboard cut outs to London
The only opportunity. We have is if we have enough mp’s in a hung parliament to force devo max
We achieve this by making sure all unionists in 2015 lose, the snp, ssp and greens, on a policy basis will win nothing
He’s not the Messiah…he’s Tommy Sheridan
As Gary says previously, the Big Book of Scare sounds like a great idea.
You can be rest assured the Westminster parties along with the Biased Broadcasting Corp will be up to their usual garbage come next years election.
We should let them dig their own hole and then produce something that will really bury them.
We have plenty of evidence already so let them dig on.
Just think what we can produce to the electorate at next years vote.
Gary
Clydesdale is Australian based and didn’t casino gamble but was caught in the fall out. Santander is Spanish but had links with RBS. RBS owned 10% of Santander.
The Manager in M & S said, ‘they were standing completely neutral on Independence and were not even reputing false claims by ‘journalists’.’
The DR are trying to cover up their part in the ‘Independence’ vote.
Listen to yourselves, you just provided 2 hours free headlines to the MSM by squabbling like a bunch o’ bairns.
Get a GRIP.
It’s not about YOUR PERSONAL egos or perceived importance in your own wee political world.
(That is what we the majority of YESSER’s are complaining about in the first place, the self same pumped up careerist’s at Wasteminster in it for themselves.)
It is about our COUNTRY ACHIEVING it’s RIGHTFUL INDEPENDENCE.
We pull together for Scotland the COUNTRY OR SADLY WE FAIL!!!
Sent to Mr Walker
Dear Mr Walker,
I started shopping at Iceland when you opened a store in my locality ( more years ago than I can accurately recall), and quickly became a loyal customer. A number of innovations re-enforced my loyalty ie your guarantee that any food carrying the Iceland name would be free of GM, and the introduction of a home delivery service timed to suit the customer are two that spring to mind I also recall having to contact your customer service department many years ago, and although I cannot remember why, what I do remember was the first class treatment I received.
To my horror and dismay on the lead up to our referendum I saw reports that you had joined the bandwagon of firms forecasting how we in Scotland, would suffer should we have the temerity to join the other nations of the world by voting yes
I waited for the retraction of these reports from yourself, which I was confident would be forthcoming, alas I waited in vain, so, regardless of the result I decided if your firm did not value its Scottish customers you did not deserve the loyalty that I, and I’m sure, many other Scots had shown you over many years and that I would use the only power I had and would take my custom elsewhere. This is what I have done and although I initially found it difficult, like losing an old friend, it is no longer a hardship as I find Aldi and Lidl meet my requirements more than adequately and deserve to be rewarded for the support they found themselves able to give the Scottish people.
It has now been brought to my attention that a letter has been printed in the Daily Record today (Tues 7th Oct.) signed by yourself, with the long awaited retraction to the suggestion that prices would rise in your Scottish stores. Unfortunately it is too little and much too late, but I am curious as to why after almost 3 weeks you feel the need to refute the afore mentioned reports Maybe as a reward for my years of loyalty and as a parting gift you could enlighten me
It could not possibly be that your loyal Scottish customers like myself have made it known to you that we have made alternative arrangements regarding our shopping habits, I am sure you will be aware of the saying, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king, in the cut throat business that you are in you appear to have failed to see that you needed the blind man and unfortunately for your business, since you did not feel the need to quickly and robustly deny the reports we were left with no other option than to take what was reported as correct, What many Scots have realised is that we all have one eye now and be sure we will use it to good effect
Sooner rather than later we will realise our dream The Scottish people will be the decision makers as to when we try again NOT the politicians, so, it may be prudent for future reference to note my comments as I am sure you did not get to where you find yourself today by ignoring good advice
Regards
@Conan_the_Librarian:
I’m sure with a wee bit of faith, the SNP could make oranges and olives grow in Scotland.
Instead, I gave them my contact details and an offer to leaflet for them at the GE. I wouldn’t do face to face campaigning because I don’t like a number of SNP policies
what policies do you think 57 ssp mp’s will get to enact when out numbered by 600 unions mp’s.?
This is an election to Westminster, not the social club in east bumfuck lanarkshire
RE
The Airdrie Savings Bank
I would be reluctant to recommend this bank to anyone on low income or benifits
When I left their charge for a missed direct debit was £35
That is half of your income if you are on JSA
One mistake and you will struggle to catch up
So please be careful
Bugger (the Panda)
Good idea, what about another WOS booze up in Glasgow?, possibly in conjunction with the RIC Conference on Nov22nd
That way I don’t have to make too many boat trips, although thanks to the Scottish Government its going to get a heap cheaper to travel from Arran to the mainland.
Should I setup a thread in off topic. Iain Brotherhood, your thoughts?
@ AuldA
I know I can make wine into water…
It would be great to have an SNP/SSP/SPS/Green Scottish Parliament. No Con/Dem/Labour/Unionists.
Ach! We all make mistakes. In any case the only bit I got wrong was the claim they had form in regard to Tommy. S. As for the rest of it the sentiment still applies. Only a bunch of brainless numpties would think that the SNP government had not done much to prevent hardship imposed by the UK gov. Council Tax Freeze, Bedroom Tax help, Free Further Education, Free Home Care for the Elderly, Free Prescriptions among other things. All in spite of the block grant going down in real terms.
So sorry for linking it to the SSP, though.
I recall reading that the Lloyds group may still move their nameplate south of the border even though there was a no vote due to the ongoing instability of possible future referendums. If they do, it would be one less argument the unionists can use. If it does happen, if only the RBS group could move their nameplate as well as it would get rid of the nonsense argument once and for all that we have a financial sector almost 11 times times our GDP. I’m not sure if the Scottish government has introduced the proposed Tesco tax yet but could a Scottish government introduce a similar sort of tax that could hit these big banks in order to ‘motivate’ them to move out of Scotland without hitting the overall non-banking financial sector?
Tommy Sheridan influenced YES votes in Glasgow. He is a brilliant speaker.
INDEPENDENT
These boys ‘squabbling like a bunch o’ bairns’ are respected veterans of this site and of the Independence movement. If they want to discuss SSP policy and if they want to tear strips off each other they can. It’s a discussion forum.
I’m fairly sure the headline in the Daily Mail the morn won’t be ‘Wings over Scotland forum in meltdown’.
Talking about companies moving their brass plate, I see that Virgin is ending its flights from Scotland to Heathrow due to low passenger numbers, is this cessation perhaps due to the fact that we don’t have Indy and therefore no consular passengers travelling.
I hear Apache oil is leaving the North Sea, this shortly after building a massive new HQ in Westhill, Aberdeenshire, is this also due to the NO vote?
SSP – Scottish Society of Playwrights. (Honestly)
I’m pretty sure that these articles and the posts on Wings are all written down in a textbook somewhere about how first their is the grief, then the anger and eventually the squabbling.
It’s nothing new and never is, our job is to avoid the squabbling and focus on the positive. I believe that anyone posting negative shite on here either has a chip on their shoulder or is purposely trying to create division.
I will ignore, they will be obvious, then the Rev will get shot of them.
There will be many laughing their socks off and we deserve it, engage your brain and rise above that.
So sorry for linking it to the SSP, though.
Mr peffer
That was my fault,
Apologies
Natasha
I think the words you are looking for are
Romanus eunt domus
Ken500
I think the Westminster Parties will rightly fear the Yes voters lining up behind single candidates but I can’t seriously believe they will not aim for a carve up themselves.
I can see the back room meeting now with a big risk style board and red, blue and yellow armies being positioned as labour concedes constituencies, and the other tories do the same. They will then know where to focus their attentions.
I have confidence but anyone thinking we are going to walk this is dreaming.
I trust the leadership of our parties will learn lessons and pull in the same direction because the anti-Scottish alliance will be doing exactly the same.
Big difference this time will be Sauron’s eye won’t be focused on Scotland that much (by that I mean the BBC) and the papers will be unable to coordinate the same level of assault. And the kids from down south will be too busy with their own constituencies to jump on the bus up here.
@Alex Clark says: 7 October, 2014 at 6:26 pm:
“You have been duped by an utter falsehood, I thought you were wiser than that. I suggest you read ALL the posts.”
I did read all the posts, Alex. Which seems to be more than you have as I have already said sorry for the only mistake I made. I replied to the things said in the open letter and each of those replies stands. I said sorry for linking it to the SSP but, as the post I replied to claimed it was from the SSP, this is hardly my fault.
Now, considering those who were confused by the two parties names have said sorry is it not time you dropped the matter for to not do so only continues the confusion.
Tam Jardine,
Go easy on them Tam, They are relatively new to Wings and we are pretty much a rough lot. Your right tho. These guys are heavyweights here and it’s enjoyable to read them when they are having a stooshie.
INDEPENDENT – This is typical of Wings and everyone always ends up friends. Cat, Ian and Alex along with everyone else are driven folk, you can feel the passion coming off the screen.
We have very little to do just now so a wee stooshie keeps the fire in our bellies.
I love this site because you can do this without the troll nonsense and no one gets barred ,as i said afterwards it’s a all hugs and snugs…… till the next time.Chuckle.
On a related issue to what happened after, remember the hue and cry about the pound dropping against the dollar due to the vote.
Well take a look at what happened after the vote
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=1M
Big difference this time will be Sauron’s eye won’t be focused on Scotland that much (by that I mean the BBC) and the papers will be unable to coordinate the same level of assault. And the kids from down south will be too busy with their own constituencies to jump on the bus up here.
Correct, in 2015, the unionists will be without saurons eye and by then we may even have our own eye to focus on them
@Conan_the_Librarian:
I know I can make wine into water…
If you could turn wine into beer, especially Guinness, I would pledge myself to worship you until the end of my life and beyond!
Could not think of a way to boycott the harry potter books until today when I saw one at a friends – so tore out the last 10 pages and hope they go for a refund..
Only joking but i will never ever buy another book from her and I know she does not need the money but these people live on a buzz of selling the most books etc etc
Thing is yes guy
As and ns are not on this site
But some of the head honchos in the ssp are
And before anyone else points out, I am aware everyone only gets one vote
Thing is, we have heard from Sheridan, from Alan grog an and from the sps, with regards their forward plans
Am I wrong to ask the ssp theirs?
Can you think of a better place to do this?
I’d forgot about the horsemeat scandal, maybe it should be brought to more people’s attention once again.
AuldA
J,etais aveugle, Mai’s maintenant je peut v……ahhhhhhrrrgh
Tam J
Risk. loved it as a kid. memories flooding as i failed to take Irkust and lost… as usual
Good spot as well Tam. The bastards will be looking at WM over the next few months. Time to wipe out the orcs (labour) up here for good.
Hands up if you know anyone willing to deliver Labour leaflets that’s not from Liverpool or Derby.
@ Schrödinger’s cat
Only if you want John Cleese to cut your balls off…
Romani ite domum
Schrödinger’s cat
Indeed – let’s hope so.
Incidentally, money being almost like a law of nature, once the true readership stats for the Sunday Herald become clear, do you think any of the captains of their Titanics will feel compelled to turn hard starboard and avoid the iceberg of their inevitable closure?
Just catching up with this thread. 😀 All I have to say is why the fuck do socialist parties have to split up, and form so many other splinter parties? 😀 It really has been the Life of Brian on here! I read an article by Cat Boyd on Bella Caledonia a few weeks ago, and she was proposing the formation of yet another socialist party in Scotland. Why do socialists appear to always want to form parties instead of remaining united? I have never really understood it.
What is the status of the TSB these days?
Has it been completely hived off from Lloyds?
If so did it make any statements pro/anti an iScotland?
YESGUY
Maybe we could all volunteer to do the slab leafletting… its always nice to lend a helping hand and they have so few members, never mind activists.
Did wonder about that tam, if newspapers are only in it for the money, why is only the sh catering for the 45%.
Something is not cashier in denmark
Kosher, bollox, hate this predictive text, even worse trying to type in Latin and French
Holiday pay claims 8:09pm
Pound v. Dollar
Another Unionist myth debunked. This is the type of stuff that Wingers are good at. Need to share this with these No voters at every opportunity.
Cat
Agree buddy , This is the place to talk. thing is SNP have to vote Nichola in first and everyone else is organising , so we’re twiddeling oor thumbs here . The waiting is tough tho.
I had a look online about the SSP. I like a lot of what they say but they are hamstrung because of labour. I would love to see them attack labour and give voters a choice if they can’t agree with SNP/Greens etc.
Snp are in a position to hurt labour big time and now they have the numbers. It’s why they get my vote for GE. I was unsure if SSP would even field candidates for a GE. It’s FPTP and they are relatively small. I fear my vote would count for nothing.
Saying that i know far too little about the policies of most parties and am voting in the hope that the SNP will be in a position of strength to push for more powers until we get indi.
To be honest Cat i would vote for the devil himself if he offered a chance of indi.
Keep up the chats and stooshies tho. We learn from them. I had no idea the SSP and SPS were different so again i learn something.
Wee PS cat
I had a stooshie my self last year over the comments Jim Sillers was making about A. Salmond.
I still haven’t forgiven him .
O/T but @Graeme Doig – Tommy Sheridan says you can send him money if you want for Sunday at 2005 Paisley Road West, G52 3TD.
I’m not saying anyone should it’s up to you.
muttley79
socialism @ core has to be the reliable supply of vitality giving vitals of life, no one poor no one rich.
i am certain that the people who lived here were socialists before it even had a name. http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/skarabrae/
Cheques made out to CUPI
Motion towards Conan,
And ite is a first conjugation Latin verb,
Cleese should have stuck in a school
Lol
Ps we have lumps of it round the back
m.youtube.com/watch?v=iE17sNjmW7c
Keep up the chats and stooshies tho. We learn from them. I had no idea the SSP and SPS were different so again i learn something.
Ah ken noo
O/T Has anyone seen the Scotsman today:
“A LABOUR MP is facing a breach of the peace charge over an alleged altercation with a schoolboy leafletting for the Yes campaign before last month’s Scottish independence referendum.
Michael McCann, 50, allegedly confronted a 17-year-old boy and his friend as the pair campaigned for Yes Scotland in his East Kilbride constituency.
It is believed that the schoolboy’s father made a complaint to the police after the incident.
Mr McCann, who said he was “absolutely delighted” with the result of the referendum last month, is said to have made counter allegations against his accusers.
Mr McCann is the chairman of the group of Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster.
A police spokesman said a 50-year-old man had been reported to the Procurator Fiscal.”
Why wasnt this reported at the time ?
@muttley79
I think it is like religion, see the wee frees. People want the purest form of socialism so keep splitting into smaller, more fundamental groups. It goes with the territory. Hopefully, they can unite around getting rid of the unionists which is the most important task for everyone now. Unionist politicians, corporations, media and organisations. We have to get out of the Rogue State which is the UK.
Tam Jardine.
Now i would gladly take SLAB leaflets out ….. to the first skip along with a few matches .
Would they pay us a daily rate. chuckle
Mmmm
Gordon Martin
RMT Scotland regional organiser
John McInally
national PCS vice president (personal capacity)
Brian Smith
Glasgow City Unison branch secretary (personal capacity)
Angela McCormack
EIS-FELA (personal capacity)
If I see the ssp in any photograph or any article with these chancers, I will personally be over to Glasgow to nail their heads to the fukcin wardrobe
AuldA, try sharing the beer money around our other Celtic cousins – Brains Black, if you can get your hands on it. A fine pint. Even some of the pub and supermarkets last time I was in North Wales still preferred to offer the Irish stuff though.
Anyway, for some odd reason I was looking up Whigs and Liberals, and came across this (search and you’ll get the LibDem history site).
“Clement Davies [nb – had refused the offer of a ministerial post by the Tories] retired in 1956, to be replaced by Jo Grimond, the youthful MP for Orkney & Shetland. Grimond could seem vague and aloof, uninterested in the nitty-gritty of political life, but he was also a superb communicator, especially on television, and an inspirational leader with a clear sense of where he wished to lead the party. He was also in possession of the Liberals’ only safe seat.”
Things don’t change for the Libs – the only safe seat in Scotland is Carmichael’s. And instead of refusing Ministerial posts with the Tories, Clegg went for it hook, line and Danny Alexander.
The LibDems will be lucky I think if they have double digit seats in the whole UK after GE2015, and to be honest, that’s very sad, considering what the Whigs could have been and were, at times.
Have a look at the Council of Europe’s code of practice for referendums (for the anoraks out there).
https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1133019
Seems to me that the UK has breached a few fundamental principles:
2. Equal suffrage
2.2. Equality of opportunity
8.
the guidelines emphasise equality between the supporters and opponents of the proposal being voted on notably as concerns the coverage by the media, in particular in news broadcasts, as well as public subsidies and other forms of backing; in this framework, account may be taken of the number of political parties supporting each option or their election results (points I.2.2.a-e).
3.3. Funding
24. National rules on both public and private funding of political parties and election campaigns must be applicable to referendum campaigns (point II.3.4.a). As in the case of elections, funding must be transparent, particularly when it comes to campaign accounts. In the event of a failure to abide by the statutory requirements, for instance if the cap on spending is exceeded by a significant margin, the vote must be annulled.21 It should be pointed out that the principle of equality of opportunity applies to public funding; equality should be ensured between a proposal’s supporters and opponents (point I.2.2.d).
25. There must be no use of public funds by the authorities for campaigning purposes, in order to guarantee equality of opportunity and the freedom of voters to form an opinion (point II.3.4.b, cf. point I.3.1.b).
If these principles are breached then we can appeal:
e. The appeal body must have authority to annul the referendum where irregularities may have affected the outcome. It must be possible to annul the entire referendum or merely the results for one polling station or constituency. In the event of annulment of the global result, a new referendum must be called.
Capella
yes we must focus on 1st things 1st.
the main aim is indyscot, it soars above all.
O/T
This “Yes Alliance” stuff between the Greens and the SNP – how would this work in practice?
http://jienotjay.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/yes-alliance-a-sceptical-cynical-curmudgeonly-party-hack-writes/
Question.
Labour for independence – SSP are they the same folk. Are all the socialist parties seperate. I must admit i thought LFI and the SSP were the same or supported each other.
Very confusing
@fred blogger
My post was not meant as criticism of socialists and socialist parties. It was more a sense of bewilderment as to why there needs to be so many in a small nation as Scotland? To the best of my knowledge these are the socialist or radical parties that exist in Scotland:
Scottish Greens: more focues on environmental issues but still on the Left.
SSP
SWP
ISG
SPS
Scottish Communists
I think there is a few others as well. Is there really that many socialists and radicals in Scotland to warrant this number of parties, and this is not even counting lefties in the SNP, SLAB, unaligned trade unionists etc?
Iceland trying to refreeze the defrosted epic fail
muttley79
i was agreeing with you.
🙂
@
Conan_the_Librarian says:
7 October, 2014 at 7:20 pm
About the piss up I mean…
Crapper!
It would be interesting to see the likes of Asda and John Lewis and see how their sales are in the next quarter. A lady I work bought a sandwich from Asda for lunch but felt really bad about it. I told her to “wise up” but she has stopped going there for her messages.
@Muttley79
if you look at a constituency by election in Glasgow you see a number of small socialist parties all competing (to no avail) e.g. Glasgow NE 2009, the BNP came 4th way ahead of Tommy Sheridan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_North_East_by-election,_2009
Thanks to Schrodingers Cat at 4:30 pm for the video link for us ex pats.
As clearly shown in the video the Iceland CEO hadn’t thought about it much at all until the last week of the referendum. Like a lot of people resident South of the Border it just wasn’t on his radar and a YES vote would have seriously challenged his world view of a cosy, but generally anglocentric UK. The UK has to be anglocentric as it has most of the land mass and 9/10th the population, to be anything else culture wise would be bizarre indeed.
However, distinct Scottishness and a Scottish State, is nearly as much a shock to these people as if we all decided to become French, overnight.
The CEO is blindly ignorant but has a similar attitude to my grandmother who basically thinks ‘United we stand’ and no reason will chip away at that wall of logic. If only we were united. He is frightened of change and thinks change = cost. It is a knee jerk position not an informed one.
The best way to open the CEOs eyes is indeed a boycott. The lost Scottish jobs at his stores will be filled with the same jobs at other stores better meeting Scottish customers needs as clearly Iceland thinks Status Quo prosperity in the South is the norm.
However he may come round, to err is human. Meanwhile nothing stops people voting with their wallet. I live in France but the stance of Lidl to try to do business come what may and leave referendums to the public has meant I now go out of my way to shop there. There are very few businesses with principals these days.
Wings should write its own SLAB leaflets, and everyone distribute them as the real thing 🙂
Mmm, perhaps setting up a new party called the Labour Party of Scotland. The illiterate amongst us like me would never know the difference!
@Capella
I think it is like religion, see the wee frees. People want the purest form of socialism so keep splitting into smaller, more fundamental groups. It goes with the territory. Hopefully, they can unite around getting rid of the unionists which is the most important task for everyone now. Unionist politicians, corporations, media and organisations. We have to get out of the Rogue State which is the UK.
It does seem that they cannot all be in the same party as each other. I assume it must be the idealism which produces factionalism, personality clashes, and cliques to develop. I voted for SSP a few times in my youth, pre Sheridan implosion. However, I watched the SSP split with dismay, and went back to voting SNP. I am still fairly left wing, but I now realise the need and importance for a strong, disciplined and effective party. The SNP have proved they have the stability (despite the 1980s splits) and purpose to keep going and remain relatively united, despite setbacks etc. Only the Greens, and ironically the SSP in their current form and position, have the potential to remain fairly united and stable imo.
@ Tam Jardine
They can always go to the Romper Room, aka Off Topic.
Some of the Usual Suspects haunt that place after midnight.
The DM would never dare go there.
Have SALES DROPPED DRASTICALLY FOT THE DAILY RECORD?
Are they PAYING OFF WORKERS?
Boorach @ 7 October, 2014 at 8:24 pm
TSB is a totally separate entity from Lloyds due to European competition laws and AFAIK is currently in the process of being sold off. In terms of the banks, as I mentioned, the two need to move their nameplates south of the border to nullify the argument that our financial sector is too big. I’m not sure how that can be done whether from a grassroots boycott, from a future Scottish government using powers or both but IMHO it needs to be done before be another referendum is going to be held. I appreciate this sounds crude but these two companies are Scottish in name only but they are being used as a stick in the iScotland argument. Who knows maybe before the next referendum these two groups are broken up and we have only Royal Bank of Scotland (the bank) operating here. I think we can only wait and see.
For a list of companies which tried to intimidate voters against YES, see this facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/ScotlandsNOcompanies?ref=ts&fref=ts
@Capella
Thanks for the link. I forgot to mention Solidarity and the Socialist Labour Party (Scargill’s outfit). It just shows the absurdity of the splits in the socialist and left wing movement in Scotland and the UK. You know it is just a matter of time before the Labour Socialist Party comes into existence… 😀 😀
I have been a bit naïve here. When I was shoutin for a YES ALLIANCE, I meant that we all fought as an Alliance, as one unit. IE. We all vote SNP in the 2015 GE and then help each other get the most Indy seats that we can get for the 2016 Scottish Elections.
For instance, Tommy Sheridan up against Johann Lamont in 2016 and so on.
But what I reading tonight is a bit of an eye opener. I do hope that the SSP are going to go roughly along the lines of what I was talking about
We cant afford to lose one vote in the 2015 GE. If an SNP candidate was up against a Labour candidate in 2015 and the SNP candidate was 1000 votes short of victory because the SSP decided to vote for their own candidate, then that would be unforgivable, would it not?
C’mon guys, it’s an Alliance of ALL Yes supporters.
I remember the interview with Malcolm Walker and he did say he thought it would be ‘business as usual’ regardless of the referendum result. I didn’t think he was the worst offender by any means.
@muttley 79
Freud called it the narcissism of small differences
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences
Now listen up everybody, David Scammeron has spoken and told us ‘nationalists’ to accept the clear No win.
Just let that be an end of this independence nonsense so we in Westminster can keep on stealing Scotland’s resources. After all England would be on its knees without all the lovely money flowing from the oil and whisky etc etc.
https://archive.today/UENg9
Seems there’s a bit of antagonsim online tonight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
FFS people can we not give this a rest, Socialist Party Scotland**** & Scottish Socialist Party are two differant Partys.
@ Liz G
I read over ASB’s website and also looked at the Scottish B S . I was unimpressed by charge scales and interest rates on deposits.
Perhaps this is one of those things we actually screwed up before the gig ourselves.
An honestly spun appraisal should have pointed out that EU rules ( we were staying remember? ) stated bank’s be headquartered where they did most of their business. That would have relieved us of the burden of bailing the bast@rds out ( which Flipper hit us with ), but would have had no impact on the day to day retail banking of citizens of Scotland. Does it make any difference to you knowing Santander is Spanish or Clydesdale Australian? We would be able to benefit if we could encourage more competition anyway in our home market. An Oligopoly( Duopoly perhaps in Scotland ) seems to be in Directors/shareholders interests, not consumers.
I learned so much about retail banking and about currency, interest rates and a whole raft of stuff in the weeks prior to Parcel Of Rogues Day. I only wish it had been easily accessible to all our voters.
O/T – Just done my 1st Wikipedia update ever !! Updated Michael McCann entry on being charged with breach of the peace. 🙂
Robert Peffers
Handelsbanken, with branches spreading throughout Scotland.
They are Swedish, a sort of mutual bank, don’t do speculative casino banking and have a real ethics policy.
http://www.handelsbanken.co.uk
When (if) I get any money, I am going there.
@Indy
Labour Party. Even literate people wouldn’t tell the difference.
@muttley79,
Don’t think the Scottish Communists are on the left, judging by their representative on the NO side at Aberdeen Festivel of Politics they are very much to the right.
Ann Begg is one of their luvvies, bleurgh!
@BtP
More like Tooting Popular Front I’d say.
At least Wolfie knew how to hang loose 😉
@john king
I think I know that film off by heart! Every one a gem.
NAG have said (last week) they’re not committed to saatying in Scotland and may go in 4 or 5 years, presumaby selling off the Clydesdale. The BOS which was highly but uncomfortably integrated into HBOS is now mostly split off again, and BOS and Halifax now have their own products once again in Scotland.
Tesco are setting up their bank HQ in Scotland, and TSB are supposed to be as well, no idea of the status. Virgin Money is planning a £150 million flotation and I think has plans to expand in Scotland. It’s going to be called the Balloon Bank, as opposed to the RBS which will be called the Bubble Bank. I made that last sentence up!
@YESGUY
Until Saturday the 20th September I was not a member of any political organisation but decided to become one. Only of course for a pre-indy party.
I could have joined any of the Greens, SNP or SSP. I choose to join the SSP as a labour voter for over 40 years they were the party closest to my beliefs.
How many of you actually know the meaning of socialist? Few I suspect, the MSM has managed over the years to associate socialism with communism and all the nasties such as Stalin.
FFS the Labour Party “is” a socialist party or at least pretends to be. That’s why I joined the SSP in the hope that many more traditional Labour supporters such as myself will see that Labour is no longer a socialist party but that the SSP can offer what they seek.
The SSP will make inroads in time and are best placed to do it in very strong Labour areas, those in the SNP who are wise will see this opportunity. United we stand, divided we fall.
Worth keeping in mind.
imperialism has a common goal to fill their coffers.
to furnish their lavish life styles and scrumptious kindergartens.
socialism has a common goal to ensure that they don’t, and that wealth is properly distributed.
Boycott, blacklist, whatever. We sound like bitter Rangers fans. Whatever way you look at it, media like this didn’t lose the referendum. Our inability to combat it did. Instead of trying to consign the partisan print media to history, we should now, more than ever,continue to use it to our advantage, pointing out its every flaw. Only this time, we need to make it mainstream. This will come, when the Big Three fail to deliver on any part of The Vow.
Listened to the first 56 seconds of the Ch4 interview with Mr Walker and that was enough for me to confirm ‘banned’ status. Slightly emotional reaction? Maybe. Could have listened to the whole interview? Maybe.
There’s enough dubiety for me given the circumstances.
Incidentally, i took great pleasure in going into asda the other day to tell the manager that me and Mrs D are taking our 5 and a half grand a year to Aldi. I suggested she pass our regards to the CEO and we were looking forward to asda’s next set of results in Scotland.
Also apologised to any long term effect on staff.
Direct action people. Like Caz-m’s idea of a to-do list of action we can take to make a difference to this country by putting pressure on the establishment in all the ‘small’ ways we can as individuals.
X Sticks
Toot Toot we’re coming.
@ Alex Clark
Me too. I have never been a member of a political party but regard myself as a life long socialist. Voted Labour until the penny dropped.
Never noticed the dropping of Clause 4 and the effect that would have.
So I joined the SNP after the referendum as I was truly disgusted by the hate campaign waged against Alex Salmond and the SNP in the travesty of the anti-democratic MSM in this country. Solidarity is the name of the game now. In my area, rural Aberdeenshire, socialist parties have no chance at all. But in the urban areas they can get more support than the SNP. Just don’t split the anti unionist vote!
Si autem quod non fit a sole orto ego interficiam te de balls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbI-fDzUJXI
Caz_m
The booster campaign was an alliance, it still is, I’m only trying to keep it together
However, it is at the ballot box that decisions are made.
Voting yes was a-political, not non political, that is what united us
We lost. Our only chance is devo max, FFA, and that means uniting behind one group, the snp
We avoided mentioning them to keep us united but now we cannot avoid it
This commission will deliver nothing, a massive win for the snp will afford us another chance to hold their feet to the fire.
Blair Jenkins said years ago that the yes camp had lost control of the campaign. Good.
While everyone waits for an announcement from on high to decide our forward plan”……..we now realise that there isn’t going to be one. YES led us to the ring, we now have to dance to our own tune. Indeed, incase you hadn’t noticed, that is exactly what we have been doing all this time. So I ask you, what will the political parties decide is the way forward? A question which has been asked numerous times on this blog and everywhere else in social media. on wings we have some of the founding members of the ssp, Ian brotherhood, mr Stevenson, indeed on this very thread, they are presently cowering behind their own fuckin keyboards on the pretence that they need to consult their members. Funny that, they never had a problem expressing their opinion before, but the one question that everyone in Scotland is asking tonight, is the very night they chose to remain silent. I ask again, why am I wrong to ask this question on wings.? And why are there no replies?
I just would like to know if that baw bag won the £20 quid letter of the week.
Lying corporate bastards the lot of them. Tell them should have went to Bejams
Thanks Husker.
Knew about the separation but not the nameplate part. Looking for an alternative to the RBS in the Highlands without having to resort to telephone/internet banking. There are some things which I do like to deal with face-to-face and the TSB does offer a high St presence.
Anyone know what the TSB’s stance on indy was?
Does anybody know the name of the Editoer of the Sunday Herald and how to e-mail him directly, not the info@ or enquiries@.
Thanks
I have little plan.
BtP
Fine Alex
Which constituencies do you intend standing candidates against the snp and splitting the vote?
Just so as we all know where we stand..?
Ps, the offer to distribute ssp leaflets for the 2016 holyrood list vote still stands
Make your mind up time.
You are either with us or against us. Decision time.
No one from on high is about to make that decision for you
This is what grass roots means.
You chose
john king says:
7 October, 2014 at 9:41 pm
Si autem quod non fit a sole orto ego interficiam te de balls
Eh?
Noorach
Is TSB not Lloyds?
Boorach
Bugger!
@Schrödinger’s cat
“they are presently cowering behind their own fuckin keyboards on the pretence that they need to consult their members.”
Actually Ian was attending an SSP meeting for the past couple of hours. You know, actually discussing plans for local stalls and meetings as opposed to just stirring up antagonism on a website.
I’m just back from it myself.
As for the SSP’s position, we do have major differences of opinion with the SNP, in terms of core values, we are totally different parties.
Yet above all other policies, we seek independence and will be happy to ally with groups who are also seeking it and are prepared to treat us as equals in the struggle.
We worked alongside the Yes alliance before, and we’re currently working on local events to try to keep up public interest in independence.
I don’t know if Ian is actually a founding member, I’m sure he’ll let you know when he gets back online.
Richie Venton is the Ayrshire SSP co-ordinator, I’d suggest E-mailing him if you want more details. Or Colin Fox.
That’s about all I have to say on the matter. I certainly don’t intend to get involved in mud-slinging matches with people who are happy to sling around wild accusations of sowing division without knowing the facts.
End of story!
@ Tam Jardine, 7.56pm: sorry I agree with INDEPENDENT. If any SSP activists want rant and argue ( shock ) they can go elsewhere. This is a forum for the Independence cause, I and 800,000 readers don’t want to listen to a dozen guys bitch fight about socialism.
@ John King
Is that wetback Spanish?
Hey folks the right is just the same in terms of small factions etc.
Tory, UKIP, Labour, Britain First, BNP, Britannica, Lib Dems, DUP, UUP, TUV…
They also have one goal; preserve the union. United in that too.
Apart from when it comes to elections…
SNP May ’15 makes sense for Yes of all colours. It doesn’t need a formal alliance. Just for folks to tick SNP so the latter can take the devo/indy case to the heart of the bubble. London will fear an SNP majority (of Scots MPs) even more that a Holyrood one for good reason.
Pick which indy party you wish to govern Scotland in 2016.
@Schrodinger’s Cat (6.15) –
I already did appolegise
And if you want a link to the ssp calling for an alliance party, ask Ian brotherhood yourself, he is reading this thread
Over to you mr brotherhood
Well, thank you for appolegising.
I didn’t reply to your comment earlier because I’ve been in a SSP (i.e. Scottish Socialist Party) meeting in Stevenston.
I’m now going to return to 6.15 on this thread and read what discussion I missed. Then I’ll decide whether or not I’ve anything to add.
Lemon, well done, saw that Wiki entry. I have the misfortune of McCann too. Hadn’t heard what he’d been up to. I guess the story will have to wait until it comes out in court…
@Schrödinger’s cat
Your very vocal today. As I said I could have chosen any pro-indy party as can anyone else. As to what the SSP’s position will be how the fuck would I know since they haven’t announced anything.
Look, I did try and dampen the fire between us but you appear intent on igniting it again.
You are wasting my time, please don’t address me again on this forum or elsewhere for that matter. You will be ignored regardless.
Aye, let’s have a booze up.
I’m just not into the Brother and Sister socialist stuff. Our Yes group are entirely retirees and wage earning “middle classers”. So why are we campaigning for independence? Simply cannot reconcile children living in poverty and food banks within a civilised society.
My mantra, when younger was ” I can only eat one meal a day, why would I want three meals per day?”. Yet the rich love money, enough will never be enough for them.
You can’t take it with you – so I take comfort in that the unscrupulous wealthily
As for the SSP’s position, we do have major differences of opinion with the SNP, in terms of core values, we are totally different parties.
Fukc yer core values, no one in Westminster will give a damn what you or anyone in the snp or ssp think. Did you miss the referendum, it matters not a jot what, or who, we elect to Westminster, I have been telling people this for 20 years, you may have just noticed it in the last 12 months, but you are still unable to accept it? Isn’t this the point we have all been trying to tell people in the last 2years. If you want I’ll give you the link to the unionist myths you tube video?
What I’m asking for is what the position of the ssp actually is? Are you standing candidates in the 2015 election against the snp?
Simple question guys
It is the only question that anyone is interested in
I hope Ian brotherhood gets back soon and is willing to give us his opinion
Mr Stevenson appears to have done a runner
SH editor is Richard Walker. Put his name into the SH corporate format with the usual @whatever – you’ll find examples on their website which will lead you to deciding whether there is a dot between first and second names etc. Sorry Haven’t had time to check it out but it’s easily done.
@ BtP
The editor of the Sunday Herald is called Richard Walker (no relation to Malcolm, I assume!). There is probably a standard form of contact address, but all I can find in the part-copy I have lying around is the one for the newsdesk, which is news (at) sundayherald (dot) com.
Aye SS, well said. That’s the plan, everyone votes SNP in May, choose our own preference for 2016. We’re all one on this, yes?
capella and BtP
John Cleese @ 2.07
Liz
Thank you. Much appreciated.
John King
Thanks for that link. Also sounds like a staff meeting at my work.
One less day
Nicely worded my friend. Be good to hear any hearty apologies or explanations from Mr walker.
As I said I could have chosen any pro-indy party as can anyone else. As to what the SSP’s position will be how the fuck would I know since they haven’t announced anything.
That’s my point Alex, the ssp are on this thread
Do you have an opinion, you have joined the ssp
Do you think the ssp should stand candidates against the snp in the 2015 ge?
Simple question, one I’m entitled to a reply before I deliver any more of your leaflets?
Schrödinger’s cat,
“Fred, it isn’t enough to stop buying their product, we need to mount a concerted and consistent campaign of the most negative type against these companies”
Yes, we must target one company at a time until it goes out of business in Scotland before moving on to the next.
Don’t worry about jobs being lost – other companies will move in to meet the demand and create jobs.
Boycotting Iceland, Asda, Tesco, Morrisons and Sainsbury’s will lead to increased demand at Aldi and Lidl which are German companies yet didn’t scaremonger about prices increasing.
I hope once Stuart returns from holiday, he will guide and lead us on this.
Eh? I hadn’t finished. – will leave their earthly ill begotten gains behind as they head off to – what was that procedure that Tony Blair had to do before he could join the Roman Catholic Church – penitence and a fee? Naw, it was some other expression – ach does it matter, he is still enriching himself.
Snode1965
You got something better to discuss then bring it – are you saying the issue that Shrodingers cat (an SNP member by the way) is banging on about should be closed down instead of figured out and worked through? I hate bickering but fuck me, I would rather these issues were discussed now than left to fester.
No-one wants to see the vote split. My own view for what it is worth is that the 3 yes parties need to get together and decide who is best placed to contest each seat.
Are there seats where the SSP or a combined SSP Labour for Indy ticket would have more chance? Perhaps. Are there rural seats where a high profile independent could win? Perhaps.
I wish Paula Rose was here, she is good at defusing arguments.
@Tam Jardine
My view entirely, and I would suggest that all SSP members new or old who choose to post on Wings will feel the same.
For some reason however a certain cat today has as an objective of his to attempt to vilify the SSP firstly by posting links to articles NOT written by the SSP and then to attack members who DARE to support them.
The majority of readers and posters on this site have a bit more savvy and I hope see through this divisive trash.
Alex
I return to Scotland on Thursday
You can insult me all you want
But I am asking you,
Not to make up ssp policy on the hoof, only to say what you and the other ssp members opinion is
Why? because it still have a heap of ssp and lfi leaflets and I need to know whether I deliver them or light my fire with them
You do have an opinion don’t you?
Speak up
Completely O/T
The establishment showing the friendly face of the WMD stored in our country.
Seems that “Camilla joined senior naval officers and 150 friends and family to welcome home the submarine HMS Astute”
“The Astute class … largest, most advanced and powerful attack submarine”
(BBC website. I know but have to keep one eye on what these bastards are doing)
Nice …
john king
eh?
Alex, I have already appologiesd 3 times for mistaking the sps with the ssp, as have many others, for those not well versed in west coast socialist politics, it isn’t such a huge mistake
What more do you want?
My question to the ssp are still valid though
You do have an opinion?
Will you be standing candidates in 2015 against the snp?
@Schrodinger’s Cat –
I can’t imagine why my opinion is of such interest to you.
For a start, I’m not ‘a founding member’ of the SSP. I have no idea where you got that from?! Perhaps you’re confusing me with someone else, but the truth is this – I joined the SSP in 2003, post the Iraq-invasion, and left (along with pretty much everyone else) when the Great Stramash happened courtesy of one T Sheridan.
I only returned to the party three years ago after meeting Richie Venton, in Irvine, where he was doing a street-stall. Since then my attendance has been sporadic. I’ve contributed occasional articles to the SSP’s ‘newspaper (the SSP ‘Voice’) but have never been involved in writing policy documents or anything of that kind. I’m an ordinary member, and always have been.
I’ve made many friends in Ayshire SSP, and the broader Yes movement. But I know virtually no SSP members outside Ayrshire, and if I do attend the 2014 SSP conference it will be a first for me. Please believe me then, when I say that I have no say whatsoever in deciding SSP policy on anything. If I do attend the conference I will be entitled to one vote on a variety of motions, same as everyone else.
One final point: the senior organisers in the SSP are committed, decent people who bear extraordinary workloads for the party on top of the regular, ‘normal’ family/work obligations we all have – they simply don’t have time to be fannying around BTL in sites like this (although they’re very very aware of the breaking stories, readership stats etc – no mistake about that!)
So, please, SC, if you feel your comments are worthy of the attention of the SSP ‘high-heid yins’, visit the website at http://www.ScottishSocialistParty.org, or, better still, send them a letter outlining your concerns:
SSP, Suite 370, 4th Floor, Central Chambers, 93 Hope St, Glasgow, G2 6LD
I’m sure they’d take your points into consideration before the conference.
If you have any other questions for me, please feel free to post them here, but I may not answer for another wee while – I’m just about to crack a can and head over to Off-Topic to see what’s been happening. I might even choose some dodgy 80’s disco music to inflict on everyone.
Hoots the noo!
Angus McLeod of the Times has died.
Ken500,
“Tommy Sheridan influenced YES votes in Glasgow. He is a brilliant speaker.”
And he has put aside political differences and publicly advocated a vote for the SNP in 2015.
Graeme Doig
“Like Caz-m’s idea of a to-do list of action we can take to make a difference to this country…”
Yes Graeme, we all need a little instruction at some time or another.
Here it is again, put that on your twittasphere. lol,
“Remember your duties for tomorrow and every other day.
Cancel your Labour Party membership.
Cancel your BBC TV License.
Cancel your Daily Record newspaper.
The political Holy Trinity of Scotland.
We defeat these three organisations, we win Independence.
If you have already done all of the above, then it is your duty to persuade someone who hasn’t.
Join a Pro-Indy Party tomorrow.
Vote SNP 2015. YES ALLIANCE.”
muttley79,
“I wish Paula Rose was here, she is good at defusing arguments.”
This is Paula Rose’s take on BBC bias:
“The BBC bias was not deliberate – they genuinely considered themselves to be representing the majority view of BBC viewers and listeners in the whole of the UK.”
Angus did a moderately good job and disparaging all politicians on Derek’s show. He was even handed about it which was something we didn’t get a lot of during the campaign. That said the ghastly Beeb ditched Derek and Ken and with them Angus….clearly way too even handed for British Bleaching Crew
@Schrödinger’s cat
I can’t help myself so must ask you a simple question. Do you personally have a pathological hatred for all things left wing?
Just as the Labour Party do for the SNP.
You see if you you read back on all your posts tonight, it is you and you alone who is hoping for a split amongst the pro-indy parties. There is no point whatsoever in asking me or any other ordinary member what the SSP plan to do in 2015.
Their conference is not until the end of the month so policy has not yet been formulated. I don’t know whether you are just having a wind up or not. I doubt that as i read many of your posts on various newspaper sites during the campaign.
What I can’t get through my head though is this over the top attack today in this thread on the SSP.
ALL STARTED BECAUSE YOU PUT A LINK ON A POST AND ATTRIBUTED IT TO THE SSP WHEN IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.
You made a mistake but appear unable to accept that, despite the supposed apology. That is sad.
Alex 9.28.
Got that pal. Politics is not my strong point but i know Labour is so different to the pre 80,s as my family will attest. We’re a mining village Alex. But since the start of this decade the SNp have made a home here. And my strong labour family are SNP voters.
I must say i missed much leaving for the armed forces in 79 and not returning home till early 90,s . But i have always believed labour was my party.
Things change. But the issues have changed a bit too. I never miss a comment , reading everyone. I learn now what i should have known decades ago. Your one of my teachers Alex.
So i tend to be a little pragmatic about things. I like what SSP says and would gladly give them my vote but feel we are fighting the Union again. We need politicians to fight for us. the YES movement was diverse, no one ran the thing. But this is different. If we split votes to parties that have little chance, we might never get what we all want. Independence. The SNP is in the best position to argue for the promises of Home rule. Wee Nichola has spelt that out to all .
I will say though . i read what you say Alex. Sometimes cheering the screen often laughing and chatting when we get the chance. I shook your hand in Edinburgh had a wee chat and listened to you. Your a good guy Alex.
I am catching up though. You BtP Grouse,Morag,Ian B,Cat, NaNa MaCart LA and Paula e.t.c are giving me an education i could never get at ANY university .
Cookie and Tam Jardine get me spitting tea over my screen every second day. Fantastic sense of humor.
We should have a Wings meet , We could all do with a laugh and a beer. I still feel like shit because of the NO vote.
I don’t think it will ever go away unless we get indi.
As well as “taking a view” on businesses like Iceland which intervened politically or allowed themselves to be used with enough deniability to try to appear innocent after the vote, please try to spend your money in such a way that it supports Scottish business where possible.
That way the profit stays in Scotland.
If faced with little choice (eg supermarkets) – think ethical. Aldi & Lidl kept out of our politics, so they’re getting my supermarket budget now.
Mind you, that’s only £6-7 in the last week, as most of the money I would have spent in supermarkets 2-3 years ago now gets spent locally – butcher, fishmonger, greengrocer, wine merchant, farm shop, sandwich shop (a No voter, but local).
scottish_skier,
I might have missed it, but what is your view on Yes losing?
There are many unanswered questions regarding how YES move forward. Discussions are going on behind the scenes and I’m sure plans, tactics and strategies are being drawn up. The battle was lost and the fog of war has yet to clear. Time to rest and regroup. The war is there to be won and learning the lessons from our earlier campaign will result in the tactics that will ensure victory.
So you don’t have an opinion on whether the ssp should stand against snp candidates in 2015?
Does anyone else think that this is a question that many in the yes camp is interested in?
This will decide if our yes groups will continue or not,
I picked up that you were founder member from twitter, sorry if that is incorrect Ian
But you were and are a big player in the ssp, you have consistently been their voice here for 2 years, to distance yourself from the high hied yin,s, in an attempt to avoid the question is disingenious
Lets give the boycott a higher profile – what about stickers we can slam on to doors and windows of blacklisted outlets?
Maybe ‘Scotland first’ on a saltire background … any other ideas?
Better than a silent protest of simply not shopping there is it not?
Visual signs of protest will help keep up spirits and maintain interest through these dark times.
Caz-m
Don’t think there are any ‘twittaspheres’ in this house. I’ll ask the kids 🙂
Schrödinger’s cat
“Correct, in 2015, the unionists will be without saurons eye and by then we may even have our own eye to focus on them”
Japanese ?
Btw, there’s a nasty cat on Guido Fawkes using your moniker. A true kipper.
Can someone ask LfI, are they going to set up their own party and have it in place by May 2015? If they do they should call it something like Labour, Scotland or Scotland Labour. Just imagine the confusion in the voting booths whilst Labour voters try to work out who they should vote for 🙂
And why did no one in the earlier arguments not mention the other party of splitters, the Proper Independent Scottish Socialists – Party Of Official Resistance.
@Alex
I can’t help myself so must ask you a simple question. Do you personally have a pathological hatred for all things left wing?
Wind yer neck in
There is no point whatsoever in asking me or any other ordinary member what the SSP plan to do in 2015.
I was asking them if they had an opinion, not to formulate ssp policy
Their conference is not until the end of the month so policy has not yet been formulated
So you don’t have an opinion?
I was hoping to I fluency their policy by getting the ssp members on this thread to voice an opinion
Kinda standard stuff on blog sites alex
“You made a mistake but appear unable to accept that, despite the supposed apology. That is sad.”
Would it make a difference if I got down on my knees.?
Pat, lfi are now disbanded
Their members have joined the snp and Alan grogan has gone back to being a teacher
As far as I’m aware, he is still a member of the Labour Party
I liked Alan grogan, he is the best the Labour Party has, even if they don’t know it
You guys do know that you are boring the rest of us ridged..right?
@ BtP + Rob Pef
Handelsbanken – I had my accounts and mortgages with this bank when I was living in Denmark. A very solid bank without any city spivs.
A bit like the German Sparkassen – local savings banks.
And here was me thinking SPS stood for Scottish Prison Service…Should have been the correct name for New Better Together United –as they wanted and succeeded in keeping a whole Nation imprisoned to Westminster’s whims
I’ve always voted SNP. It’s a socialist Democratic Party. I love Tommy Sheridan as much as anyone! Do we not need to work together and get Independence anyway and then split into separate parties? I thought that’s what the SNP was all about. The SNP has all religions signed up to it. I know it used to contain Labour, Tory and Liberal views. That was the point! Everyone got together to fight the ONE goal of Independence. What is the point in all these other parties dividing the vote?
Schrodinger’s cat
I’m sure i heard LFI had just had a meeting where they reaffirmed their commitment to independence but were looking at a name change and the way forward … whatever that means.
Not sure if that’s what you mean by disbanded.
I could be wrong.
SNP branch meeting tonight,at staggs bar,had 65 members turn up to it.Many of them new members and musselburgh membership up from 95 to 330 now!
Looking good…
Graeme Doig
Astute isn’t a WMD sub, that’s Vanguard. It’s an Astute (or Trafalgar) class sub (SSN) would have had the Kuznetsov in her periscope as she approaced the Moray Firth with her missile cruiser escort. Nuclear powered, but not nuclear armed.
@Schrödinger’s cat
As far as I’m aware, he is still a member of the Labour Party
Dear Johann
It may have been the constant emails, even after I had unsubscribed, or maybe it was the just revenge for how Labour acted throughout the referendum… But sending this back in this form felt good
@Schrodingers cat In over two & a half years of this site rarely did Wingers discuss their own political preferances or the views of their political partys,we came together as people with the same aims not as political rivals.WE WINGERS still have the SAME AIMS,you are becoming a annoyance pack it in,if you want to know what other political partys think go on to they’re sites,NOT HERE.
Tonight I’m reminded of a curmudgeonly man with a stick who likes poking it at bears. Surely better to offer jars of honey?
I am as intrigued as I’m sure many others are into the thinking of SSP, who I consider YES 2015GE partners (to my SNP allegiance).
But given the crossed wires of today, is it not better to tease this out another day?
We seem to have gone from frozen peas to cold relations
@Schrödinger’s cat
Once again you are talking utter rubbish with your reference to LFI. Firstly Alan Grogan has resigned his membership of Labour and the LFI movement will continue under a different guise.
No longer need you be a member of Labour or supporter but all are welcome.
Thank you to everyone who attended Labour for Independence Forward Planning meeting in Glasgow yesterday. We had delegates from throughout Scotland, the Highlands to Dumfries and Galloway.
Throughout the meeting all views were heard and several options were presented to the floor. Below are the approved decisions made unanimously within the meeting.
Labour for Independence will continue as a campaign and educational organisation. We will be a home for people of all political parties and none who seek to discuss and see a return to real Labour values within the political system.
As a campaign group we will still support the pursuit of Scottish Independence and will also support our core values such as removal of nuclear weapons, and fighting against austerity. As a place for education we will hold meetings nationally every 3 months which we will engage in political discussion and processes.
The group will welcome people from any political parties and none, who share similar values to ourselves. We will rename the group at our first meeting in January 2015.
The Executive Committee of Labour for Independence will be disbanded, in it’s place will be a 4 person steering committee which will have gender balance. The appointments will be rotated annually. You will not have to be a member of the Labour Party to be in this committee.
The first people elected to the committee will be decided in January 2015
Our Facebook page and Twitter will remain, However our Facebook account may need to be changed depending on name changes. We will also maintain our website which again may require a change of name. None of this will change before January and we will keep everyone fully aware of any changes occurring.
Please continue to visit our social media in order to be kept aware of any upcoming developments.
Thank you for your continued support.
Stop talking pish and presenting it as fact.
@ Graeme Doig
I’m not a member of Labour for Indy, but I know people who are/were, so I occasionally look at their Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/labourforindependence
There was a post a few days ago; they have had one meeting and plan to have another large one in January, to decide what to do, so there is not much point asking them till then.
Allan Grogan, whom I do not know, wrote at length about his recent decision to leave the Labour Party, and how difficult he found this. That is also on the Facebook page.
Once again – someone else gets there first 🙂
Alex’s post is taken from the Facebook page I linked to.
I wasn’t sure about Alan grogan, his last message was on of resignation, if he has left the Labour Party, good,
We will miss him if he has decided to disappear back in to anonymity
I can only say good things about lfi
.WE WINGERS still have the SAME AIMS,
Do we?
I seem to be getting criticized fiords asking a straight forward question?
Do the ssp wingers think that they should stand candidates against the snp?
Simple question, only asking their opinion. Is this against wings rules?
Yesindyref2
Can always rely on you to keep me right. Cheers.
Guess the point in highlighting the ‘news’ story was the soft and fluffy way Faslane is portrayed with the good old royals approval. Thus reinforcing the establishment view that we’re constantly fed.
I do stand corrected on any insinuation i made regarding the wmd status of that particular sub.
Rock
You seem intent on causing a few ripples, but it seems to be sinking without a trace.
@Schrödinger’s cat
Try reading before posting pure assertions again and again it gets very very tiresome.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/letters-to-the-editor/comment-page-1/#comment-1905657
I’m glad to say I’m off to bed so that I don’t have to read any more of what can only be described as a very bad tempered and disruptive thread. Nite, nite. 🙁
Regarding the SSP’s position on Westminster GE 2015, please, check out Colin Fox’ article in the Scottish Left Review Oct 2014 edition:
“next year’s Westminster general election offers the independence movement the chance to take the fight to Labour. The referendum results in their so-called ‘heartlands’ show how vulnerable many of its MPs might be to a single independence candidate. Talks are now under way between the three Independence parties about establishing an ‘Independence Alliance’ to stand candidates in every seat and confront the inevitable Labour claim that only
they ‘can defeat the Tories and form a government at Westminster’.
http://www.scottishleftreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/slr-october-2014-press-quality1.pdf
Schrödinger’s cat
Your like a stuck record, what gives you the right to question everybody else? Oh you carried a few leaflets and posted them through a few letterboxes, forgive me, we all did that and we don’t moan like spoiled arrogant brats.
Im with Ronnie give it a break.
Midgehunter
When I was working in Germany I used the Landesgirokasse, same principle. They were cheap, great currency note rate, fast moving money to the UK, unlike the Deutsche Bank who ewre expensive, 3 weeks to transfer money.
In Holland I used the Postbank, a little slow in those days but cheap. I had a look 3 or 4 weeks back, and they seem to be very up to date, even a clearing bank these days.
I actually thought Salmond was going to unveil a Postbank plan to spike the banks’ guns aimed at i Scotland, sadly it never happened.
Everyone knows and loves ‘Thistle’, right?
As in, ‘oor ain Thistle’, ‘oor ain Kevin’, who’s covered so much of what WOS has done socially, and so much more besides, and done 99% of it off his own bat at his own expense?
Aye, we all know the man.
Unfortunately, Thistle, AKA Kevin, is not the world’s best when it comes to blowing his own proverbial and rattling the bucket. It’s just not the type of person he is.
So, I’m sure he won’t mind me getting on my Irn-Bru crate for a few seconds and barking at y’all to get this appeal sorted asap. The man has a family to support, and cannot be expected to do this indefinitely, no matter how much assistance he gets from the brilliant volunteers.
If ‘Thistle’ is lost to the indy movement, we can’t just expect someone else with similar levels of commitment and talent to appear from nowhere. If this appeal fails, why would they?
So, can we do this, please?
(TBH, it will be a total and utter fucking brassneck if we don’t.)
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scottish-independence-live-events–2
As far as I’m aware, he is still a member of the Labour Party…
Seems not…
http://dailyscot.com/allan-grogan-resigns-from-the-labour-party/
@Schrödinger’s cat
Did you ever take the time to meet Allan Grogan by attending one of the many meetings he attended. Did you expend any time whatsoever in pursuit of a Yes vote?
You are pretty vociferous now and a pain in the arse. I apologise to the regular readers of Wings who can’t be bothered with this petty scalp taking but as a REAL supporter of Independence and one who spent many many hours and as much as I could afford in obtaining it. I take great exception to the cat decrying me for my personal political views.
As Ronnie said earlier, there were none of these disagreements prior to the referendum probably because most of us us were not members of any political party.
You Mr Cat are blinded by your bias in support of the SNP, their is room for all in an Independent Scotland so don’t ever associate me with your preaching of sectarianism.
Having crowd funded lfi many times, and driven their reps across Scotland, I have re read his personal letter to me and he has resigned from the Labour Party
I also get the impression that he has resigned from public life
I may be wrong, but that is the impression I get, if so, leave him be
I’m still waiting on an opinion from the ssp guys here on what their plans are
They are very good when it comes to abuse, less good when it comes to answering simple questions
So – I leave you for a few hours to get on with making life better for the people of Brechin (sorry Rock if you didn’t realise that was a joke) and I read the above comments – do I despair? No and no again – come together pals.
Ah, taking a while for posts to show…apols for repeating previous comments regarding Allan Grogan’s resignation from labour 🙁
Wow, sectarianism now,
Alex, you are being hysterical now
Just take a look at yourselves – I hate to say this, but pathetic, get a grip – I love you all.
Alex and quantum question – I thought you had apologised!
Now stop it.
I wasn’t going to comment ever again but tonight’s little spat over nothing has depressed me. I agree with Ronnie. We have all managed to keep together over the past two years, so please don’t let’s resort to witch-hunting. I have been proud of the way all the parties worked together during the referendum campaign and I have followed and appreciated the contributions made by Alex Clark, Ian Brotherhood et al – and Schrödinger’s cat – over that time. We have all been on the same side.
Please don’t let’s drop the banner now and have a cat fight. Paula Rose, in her kitten heels, would have to come along to administer discipline. So please everyone sleep on it and get back to campaigning against the real enemy.
I have spent the evening listening to peoples concerns about where they live – and finding ways of sorting things out – and you lot are behaving in a way I find distasteful.
Lenny, I’m sure you posted many leaflets too. I’m only asking if the people here who support the ssp are in favor of standing candidates against the snp in May 2015
Is there some reason I’m not allowed to ask their opinion?
Graeme Doig
The irnoy is that from 2.5 years ago being worried the SNP were soft on defence and wanting them to adopt a full NATO membership option, after the guns blazing from an ex-NATO Secretary General, and a similar one from the currently outgoing SG Rasmussen, I’m tempted to want them to tell NATO to stuff its oars up its barrel, take a powder and stop talking rowlocks.
My current more rational approach is that the SNP / whoever should have two defence plans for the next referendum, one with frigates etc. for a quick and easy NATO transition, and one if they “back of the queue” a lot cheaper, with 6-8 OPVs half with helo decks, similar length and speed to the FPVs (84 metres / 18 knots). But maybe work on a much faster one and flog it in hundreds overseas!
Schrodingers cat
At this stage we don’t even know if the SNP are going to contest every Westminster seat!
Dads, that is the question that it was asking, apparently I am being accused of sectarianism for doing so
Seems a straight forward question
@ Schrödinger’s cat
Climb down off your mustang Sally, then maybe we can talk.
If I was a committed no voter I would come here for some energising – buffoons, I am getting angry – I have people who need help and you lot are not helping. We are Wings – now act like it!
Sorry dads, Ii misread your post, I can confirm, the snp will be contesting all 57 seats, as they have done for the last few decades. Why wouldn’t they?
Schrödinger’s cat
Sorry to go ot so soon, but have a look
http://socialistpartyscotland.org.uk/2014/10/06/open-letter-members-snp-cuts-lets-build-mass-movement-defeat-austerity/
_____
There would have been no referendum but for the SNP so fuck those Johnny come lately fuckwits like Jim fucking Sillars and Tommy fucking Sheridan who have absolutely no fucking influence or else there would have been a referendum years ago, I reiterate, “Fuck Them”. Dinosaurs like those two need treated with the contempt they deserve.
@Schrödinger’s cat
You do of course know the meaning of sectarianism because I’m assured your not a fool.
The main point in “our” case being it applies to hatred arising from attaching an importance to perceived differences between factions of a political movement.
It has many meanings, the above is one. You need to look in the mirror to see who has been the hysterical one would be my advice.
Right that’s it – Schrödinger’s cat and Alex and the rest of you – I love you, please stop this and if you like, attack me not each other.
Scotland is full of wimps and idiots who want to be ruled by economic illiterates – anyone disagree?
I take great exception to the cat decrying me for my personal political views.
I’m not, I’m asking you what your views are, will you support candidates standing against the snp in May?
No abuse, just a simple question
Paula Rose,
Yep, I disagree. Not full, just 55%.
My party – the lipstick liberation front is standing in every constituency for the UK general election.
Pink? Or blood red?
cearc honey – second membership for the lipstick liberation front is all yours, come on girls join now.
Rose Red
@Schrödinger’s cat
“I’m not, I’m asking you what your views are, will you support candidates standing against the snp in May?”
I think you will find I answered that question at 6:19
I personally will be supporting SNP in 2015 as that is the only sensible option at this time.
Lilac
Well, I have never joined a political party but I could be tempted by that luscious offer.
Alex honey – shall we reserve burgundy for you? Bugger (the panda) is after the shade.
I spent a fair bit of time last week messing with electoral calculus, and it seems that unless the SNP get near to 50%, then there are perhaps 10 core Labour seats they can’t win, and another 10 their percentage would have to be towards mid 40s. A suggestion would be putting up SSP for at least the 10 hardline Labour seats, whether to win or split the Labour vote, who knows – and who cares, if it works for SNP or SSP?
Straight fight, SSP against SNP, practically ignore Labour, both parties genuinely going all out for votes, but perhaps sharing leafletting – take one from each, let the voter decide.
Too late. BtP has already drunk all the burgundy. Cerise maybe?
I’m reserving ‘coral’ for my niece.
Thought it was the lipstick liberation party. Give the lipsticks their freedom!
I resign.
I think the only reasonable answer to that question is “it depends”. If I was in a constituency where someone e.g. Tommy Sheridan, had the best chance of defeating a unionist candidate,then I would vote for him. It’s not tribal. It’s about defeating unionist neo-liberal politics.
Sugar pink lipstick.
cearc – cerise for BtP and ED.
It is about liberation.
Surely you do not want all those poor wee lipsticks to be shut in tubes until they dry up?
Rejoin, now.
Sugar pink for Capella – hurry up boys the shades are going.
TSB are still part owned by Lloyds and still run on the LBG infrastructure (for now) but are a separate entity. The registered office is Henry Duncan House on George St and they operate using the old Lloyds TSB Scotland banking license. All of the Scottish Lloyds TSB branches were included in the sell-off as well as the Cheltenham & Gloucester branches and Halifax’s IF (Intelligent Finance) brand.
Lloyds Bank (not to be confused with Lloyds Banking Group which is the parent company) operates solely in England and Wales with the registered office being in Gresham St, London. A good deal of the other companies within LBG also have their registered office at Gresham St. Moving the brass plaque from the Mound only affects the positioning of LBG and doesn’t have any real impact on any of the actual businesses that run under that umbrella.
Looking at ASB, the reason their charges are the way they are is most likely because they are not big enough to absorb the costs for free banking. Those websites and ATMs don’t run themselves, you know.
If you’re wanting a current account, your choices are limited. Especially now that Nationwide are dismantling the back office side of Dunfermline. I met up a few months with an ex-colleague who was told his IT job was moving to Swindon and he should to if he wanted to keep it.
Sadly, the best alternative for independenistas might have been the Scottish Building Society but they don’t do a current account.
Perhaps Alex and Schrödinger’s cat could share ‘ruby’?
Tangerine for Ronnie Anderson and Mellow Yellow for John King?
I think I’ll go for Sourwood in the Fall.
Oops maybe ‘crimson’ for John King?
Come on. Debate is healthy but let’s realise the importance of staying strong in the knowledge we all know what is right. Let’s kick Westminster and all that that entails out of Scotland. Then we can have an informed discussion. Don’t let the bastards grind US down though. Stay positive and promote Nationalist values constantly. That’s what’ll win the day :)….X for IScotland!
Alex,
Read yes giffnocks face book post today
Yes Scotland have walked out, and so have the snp
Fact
This booster club is dependent on cross party cooperation
The ssp and the greens have to decide which direction they take
If they go their own ways then this concensus will break
The yes camp is like napster, closing down the head quarters changes nothing unless those who have invested time and energy in it, also walk way,
Westminster is not the natural stomping ground for the ssp, this is snp territory
All I ask is when the ssp meet up, remember that your decition will either boost this movement, or it will break it
Do not look for guidance from anyone, even the rev has taken a holiday,
Thisnisnexactly the topic you and Ian brotherhood should be discussing on this forum. The future of the movement depends on it
King Crimson, just the job!
From Private Eye:
The Fabian society workshop on “Economic Choices for Labour” at the Labour Party Conference was sponsored by Barclay’s Bank. Meanwhile, Ian Murray, Shadow Business Minister, held a meeting sponsored by “the giant vampire squid” Goldman Sachs.
Yes giffnock Facebook
Morning to all,
Please take the time to read all of this , Thank you (Phil & Lesley)
For the last few weeks, everyone has been wondering and speculating as to why there have been no posts on the Yes Scotland page.
I promised you all a little breaking news last week after the SNP meeting I attended at Eastwood.
Whilst speaking to Keith Brown MSP, I had to ask him what the plans were for the Yes campaign now that the referendum was over and we had lost.
He confirmed to me that which most of us have known all along, that for the SNP the Yes campaign was finished. Just for clarification here, as there have been a few misunderstandings already – when he said the campaign was finished he was simply referring to the referendum and the Yes campaign’s involvement in the referendum. Also to the fact that the Yes campaign had grown so big that they simply couldn’t fund it by themselves any more. The conversation pertained SOLELY to these two things: the involvement of the Yes campaign with regard to the referendum is finished, because the referendum itself is past and finished. And the truth is, the Yes campaign has effectively been taken out of their hands by the people themselves.
Please read no more into a passing conversation than is written about it. The whole point of this post is with regard to why Yes Scotland is inactive and nothing else. There was no mention or discussions of intentions for the future from Keith or the SNP, so please don’t read more into this than is written.
So, I then further asked why (obvious question)? He replied to me that when the Yes movement had started, it was a small funded campaign that the SNP could afford, but as it grew and grew, added several more political parties to it which they could not afford to fund by themselves.
Whilst this happened there was further changes to the campaign, there was now self-funding going on from within each of the Yes pages in their own right, and further mass events that were going on outwith the SNP centralisation of the original plan.
In other words, Yes had grown to be so large and so well organized that there was no further need, other than an official figurehead in Blair Jenkins, for any further action from the SNP.
Now this may seem a little harsh but when you consider that the referendum is now finished, plus the fact that there is now 3 main parties who were previously involved in the Yes movement: the SNP, the Greens, and of course the Socialists. After which any official Leadership would have to come from all three parties under some sort of combined umbrella.
Personally I don’t think anything like that will happen again, unless as Jim Sillars predicts, we will gain a majority in the elections and force another Referendum in eighteen months.
Now then all this is not to say that there will now be no backing of the Yes pages and the strength of numbers coming from the parties! They know how important this community of pages and their followers are. There may yet be new leadership put in place, but at the moment this seems highly unlikely.
The present situation is: we are for now our own leaders and need no sanctioning from any party. In many ways we are our own party with the same aim that every one of the other main parties have – to bring our country out of the UK and have self rule for the first time in over 300 years.
None of this was said to me in confidence or secretly, but instead he was quite open about it. He said many had asked the same question, so it has quite annoyed me that there was never any real confirmation from Blair Jenkins. I guess he must have been a little nervous about telling us, or perhaps thought we might all just disband! Well, we are a bit more resilient than that.
So to finish with ,we carry on now, still as yes but with a renewed strength leading us forward to the General Election in May. Our purpose is clear , and a new round of canvassing and leaflet dropping will have to be organised amongst ourselves. Including events to be arranged by ourselves.
We have gone through the birth and teens of the Yes movement. We have learned from our many mistakes, we have grown in many ways together, both politically and mentally aware of what stands before us. It is now very clear who will stand against us, and we now know how the media and the other parties will use their underhanded ways against us.
Now that we know all these things will we be caught unaware? I don’t think so!
We also now have with us the thousands of previous No voters that are disgusted by the way they were lied to, and have now seen for themselves just how much that Labour, the Lib/Dems, and the Conservatives will go to in order to keep their failing Union alive .
We will never give up what we are fighting for and NO scare tactics or lies will ever frighten us off. We are still a Yes movement, but now we have moved our agenda to next May and a 51% minimum majority SNP. This is what is needed and this is what we will do. So, I say YES YES YES!! We all of us are still here, and going nowhere.
Rally the troops and let slip the dogs of war my friends, for once more we fight, and once more we go to war. The prize is your children’s freedom from the hands of Westminster, and the greed of politicians who would starve you and tax you into submission.
No more talk: let us now act as one. I ask all Yes pages, or whatever they have grown into, to make a point of talking to each other, and stop any stupid infighting that may have started amongst themselves. We need to once again co-ordinate and be as one in order to go forward with this.
Phil
P.S.
I also want to make sure that when it does come to the election, we demand more security for the ballots , even if we organise some sort of guard system over it, so there is no chance of further rumours etc, not sure if that can be done officially but we can find out.
Jim
We’ve done that one, it’s SPS, not SSP. Totally different.
Schrödinger’s cat
I said SNP, not SSP! And it’s quite genuinely true when I think of it. The SNP conf isn’t until Novemeber, it’s voting by delegates on some things but, I think, memebers on others, and the new members are over twice the old ones. New members after 23rd Sept don’t get to vote on some things, ones before do.
The whole membership could decide to disband the SNP completely and join UKIP!
@Schrodinger’s Cat –
Personally speaking? I will support whichever candidates have the best chance of unseating Unionist incumbents.
Whether they happens to be SNP, SSP, Green, Independent, or whatever else, matters not a jot.
To me.
Personally.
And I have already written to my MP to tell her that.
The SSP stands for Scottish independence, and has done since it was established in 1998.
No-one on this thread, to my knowledge, is in any position to dictate or pronounce upon SSP policy.
@Schrödinger’s cat
Really you have me laughing now because you are arguing for the same thing I want. Co-operation what’s wrong with that?
Nothing, agreed, good. Now gies a break LOL.
Paula Rose – Honey, I hope you’re keeping the Rose Madder, somewhere handy. 😉
LOL
Honey, I hope you’re keeping the Rose Madder, somewhere handy. 😉
@cearc
The Stand! very good 🙂
Have we decided which shade of the Lipstick Liberation Front the gorgeous Ian Brotherhood will lead?
TJenny honey – which shade would you like?
Simply Smashing Red? (for Ian)
or Sizzling Suzy.
Schrödinger’s cat
Don’t think anyone is saying you can’t ask for an opinion.
Just not repeatedly for hour’s
If delivering more leaflets are such an issue then why don’t you just hold on to them till you are satisfied that you want to.
As I understand it from reading the replies you did get a decision will be made soon at a meeting.
If you think about it, there is not much difference between wating for the outcome of that meeting and having to wait and see what Nicola or Alex will decide to do next.
And no reason to regret already having delivered any leaflets to help us win I am sure you would have agreed had we succeeded it was worth it while not expecting to then be in total agreement with any group you were delivering for.
But worse than that you are in danger of pissing off Paula Rose and heel’s may come into play you wouldn’t want that now would you?
‘Smudgeproof Suzy’ would be even better.
No-one on this thread, to my knowledge, is in any position to dictate or pronounce upon SSP policy.
I never asked you to
I only askied if you supported standing ssp candidates against snp candidates in 2015
Simple question
Less simple consequences
I thought more ‘Tulip’?
from Amsterdam?
I think for Schrödinger’s cat – Pussy Galore.
testing for access
Wee shout for any pals up north-ways, or in dark rural places.
May be a good time to stick your faces outdoors and look upwards –
Here in Ayrshire we don’t often get to see the Northern Lights. I’ve only seen them a couple of times in the 16 years I’ve been outside Glasgow. But tonight? Hmmm…dem ‘clouds’ don’t look right…
Even when I did see them they weren’t blazing, the way you see them in documentaries, or whenever Joanna Lumley’s about the place.
Maybe worth a quick swatch, right now.
Everybody giggling now and being friends?
@Schrödinger’s cat
You had my answer at 6:19 pm what’s your response to that?
You know what i don’t really care what it may be, you have proven yourself to be a first class dick when it comes to arguing your case.
The truth is you are devoid of arguments and appear stuck on a repetitive monologue.
@SC –
‘I only askied if you supported standing ssp candidates against snp candidates in 2015
Seeing as you’re askieing, no, I don’t.
Anything else?
Paula Rose – reserve me the Spiced Tangerine, or Suki Pearl Pink, please. Ta.;-)
Paula Rose
Whisky for me
@Schrodinger’s Cat –
Do you support this? –
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scottish-independence-live-events–2
@ cearc
Frippery!
@ TJenny – I’m going to have to go and stamp on some boys – they are most tiresome, yes Ian, Alex and Quantum pussy I’m looking at you.
@cearc (12.54) –
🙂
I see according to the Smith Commission, they will take into consideration the views of the ‘wider public’. How many members of the ‘wider public’ read Wings?
That’s it – leave the boys to their handbag swinging, thank goodness us girls have sense.
@Paula Rose –
No chance. I’m off to my scratcher, and it’s never the same place two nights running…
@paula
My humblest apologies. In my case I mean it!
Back on thread…
Was Ingolfr Arnarson not the founder of Iceland?
Ian Brotherhood says:
@Schrodinger’s Cat –
Do you support this? –
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scottish-independence-live-events–2
who do you think has been crowd funding him over the last 2 years? mayhill food bank?
@cearc
And sizzling suzy comes true when 30,000 crowd into Freedon Square on Sunday? Hope not. 🙂
liz g says:
Schrödinger’s cat
Don’t think anyone is saying you can’t ask for an opinion.
apparently it is sectarian to do so,
As I understand it from reading the replies you did get a decision will be made soon at a meeting.
what meeting? you are waiting for someone to decide what you think? even the rev is on holiday
If you think about it, there is not much difference between wating for the outcome of that meeting and having to wait and see what Nicola or Alex will decide to do next.
NS will anounce 57 candidates for the snp in may. there is a huge difference, the ssp with 2000 votes in the last election will be deciding on the future of this movement.
And no reason to regret already having delivered any leaflets to help us win I am sure you would have agreed had we succeeded it was worth it while not expecting to then be in total agreement with any group you were delivering for.
I dont regret anything, Im just asking about the way forward
Alex,
I hope not!
I am sure you will all have a great time. Hugs to all of you.
Alex Clark said
“You are pretty vociferous now and a pain in the arse. I apologise to the regular readers of Wings who can’t be bothered with this petty scalp taking but as a REAL supporter of Independence and one who spent many many hours and as much as I could afford in obtaining it. I take great exception to the cat decrying me for my personal political views.
As Ronnie said earlier, there were none of these disagreements prior to the referendum probably because most of us us were not members of any political party.
You Mr Cat are blinded by your bias in support of the SNP, their is room for all in an Independent Scotland so don’t ever associate me with your preaching of sectarianism”
wow, sure you wouldnt be happier on the daily mail alex?
your pseudo intellectual rant about how sectarianism isnt just a question of religion but spans the panolpy of politics…….. im sure you will be very happy in the socialist party scotland……..peoples party of socialist scotland……….whatever
@schrodingers cat
Look I’ll make this easy by spelling it out very slowly for you.
G O A W A Y.
Yes Schrödinger dear but what about those heel’s
Are you also aware whiskey has been mentioned look’s like the conversation finally got interesting
Alex don’t tell him to go away he’s got you’re leaflets
@liz g
Here’s the important thing. It doesn’t matter who has our leaflets. What matters much more is that we can all work together. Yes that is the SNP, Greens, SSP, LFI, Women for Indy, Business for Scotland ect…
You see what I’m saying, ignore the minutia and focus on the goal!
Unfortunately some no matter what they learn are blind to that fact.
WE the Yes voters will not be divided by mere politics which in the grand scheme of things mean nothing. Let’s join together and fight for what is right.
Let no one deflect us from that goal.
7LF3-V9NY7P-QEVJ
Well after this little video I’ll never set foot in Iceland again. Far foods from now on.
@Schrödinger’s cat
Sorry to go ot so soon, but have a look
http://socialistpartyscotland.org.uk/2014/10/06/open-letter-members-snp-cuts-lets-build-mass-movement-defeat-austerity/
See, this is exactly the problem I have with this “socialist party of Scotland” namely that they are deluded. the SNP have to implement cuts somehow, because unlike Westminster, Holyrood has to live and die by its set allowance of pocket money. When that pocket money gets cut, cuts have to come in place or another. Its not like Westminster where a deficit can be run. The failure to understand the very constraints of Holyrood discredits this group.
I’m tired of this petty infighting led by fringe groups.
letter of the day £20 walofs
DR totally taking the p*ss
Is it just my, by the way, or do this SPS seem like a complete sham organisation? Just the kind of bedmate that labour needs to sow division within the ranks of the Yes groups.
me*
@thoughtsofascot
Who are the Socialist Party Scotland? The SPS? They are nothing, did not support Independence and are not worthy of words on these pages.
Do me a favour and never again post a link to their propaganda.
Yes Alex I do see what you are saying and you will get no argument here
But I am sure you will agree that an important part of the glue that has held us all together is the good humour that everyone has commented on throughout the campaign.
I think our ability to laugh and take the piss has been one of our major strengths and attractions PLEASE do you’re bit so that we do not lose it now
I’m an eejit, you know that? An eejit.
https://archive.org/
Type in the URL of the main page of your favourite newspaper, next page you get all the dates it was crawled, click on one and you get the paper for that date, with links to other pages, the lot.
I’m thinking of the Herald (daily), which having gone to NO on the basis of “The Herald’s view: we back staying within UK, but only if there’s more far-reaching further devolution”, and then followed that up after the NO with one single article saying they’ll be the champion of new powers, is now back to slagging off the SNP at any opportunity (not the Sunday Herald).
They can run, but they can’t hide.
@Alex Clark
I think you will find that I was only quoting Schrödinger’s cat. Read my comment and you will find my views on them.
Its the second article I read from following a link to their page on wings and I think it can be deduced that they are at best chancers looking to capitalize on the similarity of their name to SSP (kinda like those SIP chancers on facebook), and at worst trying to split the vote and help out their labour chums.
Let him post his links here. the more they get exposed for what they are, the better. If people know about them and know what they are up to, they won’t fall for their tricks in the run up to the GE in 2015.
@liz g
I can’t help it, I am tired. For two years I have tried to fight against the arguments of the establishment. Not just here but everywhere, the last thing I need now is to have to defend myself here on Wings.
What happened today, I regret. But I will be in George Square on Sunday and will never lie down. Only with this attitude can you ever dream of winning.
Do you hear me?
thoughtsofascot
Already corrected in the thread, it’s not the SSP, it’s the SPS – a totally different party who wrote that “open letter”.
Oops.
Hear you loud and clear
Just rember in George square definetly don’t lay down
You will get squished
You see there might just be a few people there
Take a good look though
That’s you’re back up
Goodnight alex
I hear the Silly Billies are looking for a repeat performance in George Square and hope that the organisers have had meetings with the police and Council to ensure that the police do not repeat their “neutral” stance neither. The police are usually quite good at dealing with mass Old Firm type public nuisances. What happened to them on the last occasion is anybody’s guess.
On the question of the SNP conferences I believe that new members have to wait 13 month to have a vote at Conference. That safeguards the Party continuity and ensures only serious members carry on.
As for all the expected new parties, entrists and perpetual splitters and fronts emanating for the Yes campaign: may I be allowed to say that the Cross Party Scottish Republican Socialist Movement deliberately kept a low key involvement, encouraging their members to campaign as individuals in the their local Yes groups.
As for voting for Indp0endence at the next General Election it would make sense to put all your votes behind the SNP to gain a majority of Scottish seats. We are not naïve enough to expect all the groups, especially those who spent more time attacking Alex Salmond and the SNP than making a case for Independence, to comply. The dismal showing of the left groups at the previous elections since the SSP inevitable split, where someone here pointed out that the BNP had more votes than the combined left groups together.
My own personal opinion is that if some of the left groups were not working for British Intelligence then they were doing it for nothing, or many of their members were just simply being duped. I don’t want to get in a spat with the residual SSP, but it is quite obvious that they will never be the same again and that their commitment to Independence was very much in dispute up and until their kamikaze split. It was not all about Tommy Sheridan, as some would have you believe. I don’t wish to rake over old arguments. other than to say that the SRSM left because of the “Ambivalent”/Duplicitous stand on Independence.
Independence for the SNP is the sole issue for their existence and not just another bum of the month issue, or “tactic” to betray when it suits them. I know some members who stayed, or even joined after the split may be genuine in their support for Independence, but their ruling clique and some the people they attract just can’t help themselves and their petty sectarian attitudes. They will always be a “Popular” Peoples Judean Front, or was it the Judean, or Peoples …?
I hear the Silly Billies are looking for a repeat performance in George Square and hope that the organisers have had meetings with the police and Council to ensure that the police do not repeat their “neutral” stance neither. The police are usually quite good at dealing with mass Old Firm type public nuisances. What happened to them on the last occasion is anybody’s guess.
On the question of the SNP conferences I believe that new members have to wait 13 month to have a vote at Conference. That safeguards the Party continuity and ensures only serious members carry on.
As for all the expected new parties, entrists and perpetual splitters and fronts emanating for the Yes campaign: may I be allowed to say that the Cross Party Scottish Republican Socialist Movement deliberately kept a low key involvement, encouraging their members to campaign as individuals in the their local Yes groups.
As for voting for Indp0endence at the next General Election it would make sense to put all your votes behind the SNP to gain a majority of Scottish seats. We are not naïve enough to expect all the groups, especially those who spent more time attacking Alex Salmond and the SNP than making a case for Independence, to comply. The dismal showing of the left groups at the previous elections since the SSP inevitable split, where someone here pointed out that the BNP had more votes than the combined left groups together.
My own personal opinion is that if some of the left groups were not working for British Intelligence then they were doing it for nothing, or many of their members were just simply being duped. I don’t want to get in a spat with the residual SSP, but it is quite obvious that they will never be the same again and that their commitment to Independence was very much in dispute up and until their kamikaze split. It was not all about Tommy Sheridan, as some would have you believe. I don’t wish to rake over old arguments. other than to say that the SRSM left because of the “Ambivalent”/Duplicitous stand on Independence.
Independence for the SNP is the sole issue for their existence and not just another bum of the month issue, or “tactic” to betray when it suits them. I know some members who stayed, or even joined after the split may be genuine in their support for Independence, but their ruling clique and some the people they attract just can’t help themselves and their petty sectarian attitudes. They will always be a “Popular” Peoples Judean Front, or was it the Judean, or Peoples…?
Apologies if this comes up twice. I don’t seem to be getting through.
I hear the Silly Billies are looking for a repeat performance in George Square and hope that the organisers have had meetings with the police and Council to ensure that the police do not repeat their “neutral” stance neither. The police are usually quite good at dealing with mass Old Firm type public nuisances. What happened to them on the last occasion is anybody’s guess.
On the question of the SNP conferences I believe that new members have to wait 13 month to have a vote at Conference. That safeguards the Party continuity and ensures only serious members carry on.
As for all the expected new parties, entrists and perpetual splitters and fronts emanating for the Yes campaign: may I be allowed to say that the Cross Party Scottish Republican Socialist Movement deliberately kept a low key involvement, encouraging their members to campaign as individuals in the their local Yes groups.
As for voting for Indp0endence at the next General Election it would make sense to put all your votes behind the SNP to gain a majority of Scottish seats. We are not naïve enough to expect all the groups, especially those who spent more time attacking Alex Salmond and the SNP than making a case for Independence, to comply. The dismal showing of the left groups at the previous elections since the SSP inevitable split, where someone here pointed out that the BNP had more votes than the combined left groups together.
My own personal opinion is that if some of the left groups were not working for British Intelligence then they were doing it for nothing, or many of their members were just simply being duped. I don’t want to get in a spat with the residual SSP, but it is quite obvious that they will never be the same again and that their commitment to Independence was very much in dispute up and until their kamikaze split. It was not all about Tommy Sheridan, as some would have you believe. I don’t wish to rake over old arguments. other than to say that the SRSM left because of the “Ambivalent”/Duplicitous stand on Independence.
Independence for the SNP is the sole issue for their existence and not just another bum of the month issue, or “tactic” to betray when it suits them. I know some members who stayed, or even joined after the split may be genuine in their support for Independence, but their ruling clique and some the people they attract just can’t help themselves and their petty sectarian attitudes. They will always be a “Popular” Peoples Judean Front, or was it the Judean, or Peoples…?
Morning all. From today’s papers. This is very divisive and just what many expected could happen. Jim Sillar’s dislike of SNP may cause lots of probs we don’t need. http://www.scotlandnow.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/former-snp-deputy-leader-jim-4393815
An excellent utube video by Dr David Patrick who did research on media bias from Sep 13 up to the referendum. Reaffirms what we all knew on here about the biased MSM and how people, less aware, were duped. Excellent stuff. http://youtu.be/2bYajHIcXMk
Greame Doig @ 10.36
Saw it
stank of Gorgonzola cheese,
Unquestionable propaganda,
I have never seen the return of a SSN and certainly NEVER a boomer being given the full brass band treatment along with (minor) royal
and headlined in the evening news to show us those nice young men in the subs have families who missed them,
really?
no shit,
these people must think were all idiots,
OH?
Ronnie Anderson @ 11.33
What Ronnie says!
Paula Rose says
“Oops maybe ‘crimson’ for John King?”
The Mellow Yellow goes better with my eyes 😉
I have to say Schrödinger’s cat
that for the last three years I have held you in awe when we posted (maybe you still do )on the Telegraph when I posted under jdman, but this silly fight with Alex is getting quite divisive now, I’m an SNP man and always have been but I think wee Scotland has enough room for people of all beliefs to thrive,
Im really surprised at you, I thought more of you than that, as far as Alex is concerned we have met on several occasions and not once have either of us attempted to persuade the other to his pov because we respect each others beliefs, I suggest you do that as well.
@BtP That (latin?) was a clumsy translation of John Cleeses line about getting it done by dawn or he cut the recalcitrant recidivist’s balls off. 🙂
@ Paula Rose
I don’t have ED
Not any more
Bisous
@ Paula Rose
Missed the Lipstick Liberation Party spat last night / this morning. I was tucked in bed with Mrs Tian Tian doing what normal Pandas do, sleeping.
So for me it has to be, homage à Elkie Brookes, Lilac Wine.
As far as I can see Schrödinger’s cat has only, repeatedly, asked the SSP’s clear intentions if they will stand against the SNP, for all the marginal difference they will make. For this he seems to be met with personal abuse instead of a direct answer. Reminds me of my time in the SSP.
Robert Brotherhood appears to be quite honest in replying that he just does not know, as he is an ordinary member and not privy to the inner ruling clique’s real intentions. It was always thus that way Robert.
It is not good to stifle debate in any forum, though it often takes its toll on others.
For the splinter groups Inepemndemce is just another, of many ISSUES, all admirable in their own right. But, if we don’t have the country we can do sweet nothing about them.
For the SNP Independence is a CAUSE. The rest will follow, or go nowhere without it, considering the nature of the British State and Imperialism, which many in the left seem incapable of analysing.
@ Schrödinger’s Pussy and the Usual Suspects
I think Alan Grogan is trying to position The Commenweel into an umbrella left wing grouping?
Like herding Cats?
Somebody has to try so good luck. The Left always seen to have the inerring ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
In unity there is strength, in fractionalism there is self satisfaction and self righteousness. The Self Righteous Brotherhood (unfortunate coincidence and not of any personal significance).
Folks on here, who should no better, let themselves be dragged into a nonsense argument yesterday, for no good reason. The people I know from YES, were all parties, but mainly none. Maybe, and this is meant in the nicest possible way, folks should remember;
1. There are definite attempts ongoing to seed division in the YES movement. Please do not give them the time of day. Ignore them, they are like trolls.
2. CHECK YOUR FACTS/SOURCES. FFS folks, just because a person tweets or posts something, does not make it FACT. Take time, and THINK!! Silly press releases designed to cause division, worked big time yesterday with some people on here, because they didn’t freaking well check what it was they were reading before over reacting, resulting in the smearing of good people in the SSP who worked like trojans for YES.
I’ll work with ANYBODY, including beelzebub himself in order to get Scottish independence, and end London colonial rule. I think most people here all think the same. Best ignore those who do not.
Please, please, please be cautious of those who seek to divide- it is the oldest trick in the book.
🙂
What’s happened to your avatar Jim?
Dunno
Posting from my iPad and it doesn’t appear.
Buggered if I know why not.
“Lipstick Liberation Front”
Is that some kind of smear campaign?
@Robert Louis
Well said. Source checking is important, especially now. There are too many little front groups out there masquerading as legitimate parties for the sake of sowing divisions. I’m now an SNP member, but I’m making a point to not have a go at any potential allies in this fight, even no voters (despite the fact that they have exiled me and other expat Scots). Sniping and settling scores needs to be avoided for the forseeable future. We need unity and the only way we will get that is if we all speak as one. A house divided will not stand.
Without wishing to fan any flames, I have a question
Schroedinger’s Cat has stated that the SNP will field a candidate in every constituency. He asks whether the SSP will contest any of those seats, thus splitting the vote. However I had thought that those who wish to construct a “Yes” alliance proposed that the candidate most likely to win should stand in each case. If that is correct then I fail to see how the SNP can have decided to stand in every seat unless they have already decided they will not support such an alliance.
It may be that the SNP have the best chance of winning in every seat, of course: but I do not know how we can be certain of that before each constituency is considered on its merits. I think there are places where greens may have a better chance, for example. But I do not know.
To me it seems that Schroedinger’s Cat should answer the question he or she so insistently puts to others: is it the case that the SNP will field candidates in constituencies where another pro independence party has a better chance of winning (assuming there are such constituencies) thus splitting the vote?
.fiona
I am not answering for Schroedinger or his cat but my take is this
Logically the S N P would be the most likely Indie party in all 57 seats, except
The Northen Isles where the only person capable of taking that seat would an indepence independent.
I cannot think of any seat where an independence minded right wingerish would take any seat in Scotland better than the SNP. A pro business member of the SNP might have a sniff against Jim Murphy, eecialy if they were to have some Jewish connection, especially a local one.
Tommy Sheriden, yes of all people, could topple Ian Davidson, as a left wing local firebrand / personality.
I don’ the Judaean Peoples’ Front or any splittelist grouping therefrom taking any seat, but being good door knockers and convincers in many seats in a targeted proselytising role.
I am tapping this out in a horizontal repose in my scratcher so, I cannae be ersed to levitate and look at all 57 seats.
Thus, in general it has to be the SNP, social democratic mode, backed by all the rainbow warriors who will proselytise on a micro targeted way, as would say business for Scotland, women for indie, nurses, gardeners, greens etc.
I think as I finish this, the Greens may have a chance at one or two but I am not confident that they are 100% in the indie wave. Their new membership might tip that balance.
Maybe 5 or 6 (?) seats to others, where the SNP would not field a candidate and fully back A N Other.
Alastair Darlings wife @maggivaughan refers to “Sad bastards for yes still hanging about”
bfh—they are worried were not going away
@Conan the Librarian,somebodys been Winched oota bed early in the Burgh ( Lipstick Liberation Front)pure belter.
Gordon Brown
Home Rule Daily Record 1993
https://michaelgreenwell.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/bexa3d6cuaaziek-large.png
I feel its time for a Patsy Cline number
“Who’s sorry now”
Labour’s poll ratings hit four year low
https://archive.today/OLaq0
RE Smith Commission
Members of the public are now welcome to submit their views to help guide the Commission’s consideration of what further powers should be devolved to strengthen the Scottish Parliament within the UK. The deadline for responding is 5pm on 31 October. There are three ways you can make sure your views are heard.
Email: Please email your responses to haveyoursay@smith-commission.scot
Mail: Please write to The Smith Commission, 7th Floor, 144 Morrison Street, EH3 8EX
Website: There will also be a dedicated ‘haveyoursay’ page on the website from Monday 13 October where you can put your ideas in directly.
The Scottish voluntary sector want Welfare powers devolved to Holyrood.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/voluntary-sector-wants-welfare-system-devolution-1-3566016
No mention of it on BBC Scotland, they would rather run with the “sack Macaskill” story. It’s funny how they only seem to have a Labour Party video sound bite regarding this Macaskill nonsense, no SNP rebuttal.
Scottish Labour and BBC Scotland working together for a better Scotland.
Did I hear someone at the back shouting “bullshit”.
@Robert Peffers 7.06, Totaly agree with you there Robert, if people read through the Posts they can see those attempting devision, we have had our fair share of Trolls. Wingers CLOSE & BAR THE DOOR ON TROLLS.WE need to keep this site together , there is a lot more work in store for all of US.
Brazen or what?
THE future of the NHS should be taken out of party politics and an expert group set up to look at its future, according to Johann Lamont.
The Scottish Labour leader said political interests have been put before patients and staffing and funding for the health service had to be addressed.
Ms Lamont, MSP for Pollok, said she is seeking cross party support for a group to investigate and lead a public consultation on a review of the service.
She said: “For too long, party politics has got in the way of taking long-term decisions over our NHS.
“Time after time, vested interests have been put above patients.”
@ Bugger (the Panda)
Thanks for your reply. It does not really answer the question, however, because what I want to know is if the SNP will agree not to contest a seat if it is more likely to fall to an independence candidate of another stripe, be it independent, green, SSP or anything else. Schroedinger’s Cat seems to say no to that question, as he says they will stand in every constituency before any such consideration is made. So it seems to me that his demand that others do not split the vote is not applied to his own party. And it is very difficult to cooperate if that is the case.
I have no dog in this fight: I am not a member of any party. I just want to know what the prospects are for true cooperation in the form of an alliance
Police complaints about indy postal votes now extend to Labour spin doctor
FRESH allegations of prominent pro-Union supporters appearing to have knowledge of postal vote trends before the independence referendum ballots closed have been received by police investigating possible breaches of electoral secrecy laws.
https://archive.today/h6ax3
@ Nana Smith
His defence is pathetic. It rather demonstrates that he believes our heads have buttons in the back
Gordon Brown– 30 minute debate VOW backfires
Full Commons debate next Tuesday(YA beauty)
WESTMINSTER chiefs have caved in to SNP pressure over plans to spend just 30 minutes debating new devo powers for Scotland.
The UK Government hastily arranged a beefed-up Commons discussion next week after outrage from Nats chiefs.
The switch comes after fury over proposals to address the pledge for extra devolution for just half an hour next Thursday.
It was also revealed that only former PM Gordon Brown and Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael were pencilled in to speak on the historic matter.
But last night sources confirmed a full government-led debate would also take place early next week, after the Commons returns following the party conference season.
A government insider said: “The whips office have it lined up for early in the week — probably Tuesday — though it has not been formally announced.
“It will be a government debate, so it will potentially last hours, giving it the attention it deserves.”
Nats MP Pete Wishart had written to Commons Speaker John Bercow complaining about the original plan for a 30-minute debate in a graveyard slot on October 16.
Hailing the change, Mr Wishart said: “This is very welcome news.
“I don’t know why Gordon Brown thought he would get away with his suggestion to hold just a half-hour debate. He has been hopeless in his attempts to hold Westminster to account.”
Mr Wishart added: “This is a government debate and must therefore be led by the Prime Minister. He has to look the people of Scotland in the eye and say he’ll honour the vow he and the leader of the opposition gave, without conditions.”
Mr Brown fronted the cross-party pledge for new powers in the run up to the referendum.
The Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath MP requested the original “adjournment debate” which would have seen him speak with Mr Carmichael.
bfh—looking forward to this,will Gordon show up?
@Nana Smith
That Herald article makes a good point …..
“The allegations of illegal postal vote “tallies” raised concerns the information may have helped inform the No campaign’s decision to issue the “vow” of more powers for Scotland”
To my mind, a decision to breach purdah and alter the outcome based on intelligence illegally gathered, must come damn close to invalidating the result!
@galamcennalath says To my mind, a decision to breach purdah and alter the outcome based on intelligence illegally gathered, must come damn close to invalidating the result!
YES without a doubt. But what will be done about it?
I’ve not heard the scotgov say anything about this scandal. Had this gone on in any other country the UK would have been demanding all sorts of enquiries.
But of course Westminster don’t want the world to see how desperately they need Scotland’s wealth.
@galamcennalath
If they knew the postal votes were favouring No then why would they make the Vow? That does not make sense to me, for it has not been to their advantage to make it in terms of the post referendum situation. Why put themselves in that position?
caz-m 10.49 pm.
Strangely enough, before I had read your comment I had written this before I went out this morning, meaning to post it when I got back.
As time passes the situation begins to crystallize itself in my mind. Before we attempt to gain independence again we must destroy in the eyes of the Scottish people, institutions such as the Labour party, the BBC, and the Daily Record. The things which so many of our people still place their faith in. The very things which the state used so ruthlessly against us.
Of course, many people will see for themselves that these organisations have lied to them. We should, however work to undermine them at every opportunity. Point out that they are lying, and that they are often no more than mouthpieces for Westminster, and that they don’t care about the wellbeing of the Scottish people.
Only then will we be able to move forward towards independence with a chance of succeeding.
Fiona
Three possible reasosn
a) the overestimated the lead that the Yes had in the 18th
vote
b) they wanted to make it a 60/40 win to kill a second referendum.
or
c) The SNP were really winning and the incursion of Crash Gordon and the media onslaught in the last 10 days tipped it totally back to what I consider a narrow No win.
I wonder if the memos and UK Gov documents on this will ever surface 25 years from now and certainly know that the real manipulators records will have already be expunged.
@Fiona
At this point in time, there has been no announcement of a body such as a definitive YES alliance with a strategy for determining the most appropriate candidate per constituency. There may however, be discussions in the background between the parties.
Until such an announcement is made, all this talk is hypothetical and it’s business as usual for each party. Based on the fact that the SNP have fielded candidates in all constituencies for the last 5 WM elections, I would presume the default position for 2015 to be the same.
Now they turn the screw on Catalonia.
Had to laugh at this part about London being relaxed at losing Scotland…
Catalonian independence threatens the stability of the single currency. And finally, while London was relatively relaxed about losing Scotland, Madrid is not at all relaxed about losing Catalonia. The argument could turn very ugly.
https://archive.today/KvdYW
@Fiona,S/Cat does not speak for the SNP it is pure speculation, we need to wait for any Alliance to be formed, but no political party can ignore the Grassroots Movement even now even if they have joined a political party, they as newbee’s will have no political loyalty as such.
Caz-M 1st it was Alex Neil (health Sect)called on to resign by the Lab/Con/Ldem, now its Kenny McCaskill they have nothing to offer the Scottish people, but trying to destablize the SNP, they will get round to Nicola Sturgeon eventually, they’re a busted flush. As for a commision to look after the NHS brief this is in there plans to take more powers away from the Scottish Parliament as they’re plans to devolve more powers to Local Athourities & this is what I think will come more obvious from the Smith commission. Not Devolved Power to Hollyrood but Devolved Powers to Local Athourities ( many of whom are Labour )for the time being.
Fiona
I know it didn’t answer your question and I more or less said so, I think, but I don’t know and nobody does, yet.
Maybe that will the subject of a debate at the SNP Conference, to gauge the feeling of the Party for the 2014 Westminster GE.
Part of the rationale of the SNP is to have a presence in Westminster but their main objective is Holyrood and creating a managerial / adminstrative / political and local presence in Scotland and Holyrood.
It may albe a money dependant thing as it would divide their funds, which must already be well depleted after the Referendum.
The First Group of Aberdeen have lost out on the Scot Rail franchise.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29531099
Were First Group on the “Vote No” list?
@Fiona and others re a Yes coalition
I’m also not a member of a political party though joined the SNP and helped leaflet and canvass for the 2011 election with the main motivation of getting a referendum. I’m also most likely to vote SNP. However, my concern is that the label may still damage the pro Scotland vote in some constituencies, enough to see Labour get in for example. Consider the criticism today on Radio Scotland that they could have nationalised ScotRail further down the line and shouldn’t have allowed this sale to go through. Such policy arguments really aren’t relevant, in my opinion, for a pro Scotland paty in Westminster who obviously won’t be forming a government in any case, but could hold influence if there’s a very small majority for, say, the Tories.
The other strategic challenge is how to gain the attention of the electorate considering the MSM will focus on 3 parties, or maybe 4 if we include UKIP. SNP will not get much of a platform, never mind Scottish Greens and SSP.
@Fiona
Straightforward.
Everyone knew the postal votes would have a higher percentage on No, simply because they involved a higher percentage of older voters.
The Nae Sayers had private polling info and we now are fairly certain that was showing Yes in the lead by 5% around the 5th. If they knew postal votes were say 15-20% for No, then that would still not have been enough when combined with polling day votes of at least 5% for Yes, to ensure a No win.
They would have looked at the overall picture. Votes cast on the day would still be more than the postal votes already in the bag. Illegally obtained No win info on postal, combined with private polling Yes ahead prediction, would have been too close to call. They panicked and made their Home Rule/Devo Max offers.
Watched the 10.30 news on EBC last night first time for ages. Looked like somebody flashing the lights on and off from the flats behind Catrina Shearer. Think it spelled out Y E S!!!!
@BtP : You busted your portrait?
@Paula rose: Is it too late for that lipstick auction? If not, please reserve cochineal carmine in your stash!
@roughian
Catrina Shearer was on and you were looking at the background – what’s the matter with you man ????
Take back my earlier thread comment about finding last nights spat funny.
Seriuosly folks; enemies of Indy & swithering voters still visit this site and in the end it was truly tiresome and troll like.
Pretty sure it would have been most off putting to any new readers. And spats should go to quarantine (or at least they used to).
When is Rev due back seriously FFS ?
AultA
Somehow no longer works with iPad posts.
Sorry
John and Caz-m.
Your dead right about debunking everything we can from all our opposition. MacWhirter says in Sun Herald that Human Rights Act & ECHR are written into 1998 Scotland Act and if England pulls out it will create some interesting legal anomalies. Shows Westminster up again not getting the facts right. What brought me to WOS was getting the facts right and telling people about it.
Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
Surely we have to have new laws/rules regarding postal votes. On this very site people saw this outcome about a year ago. No one listened.
There were too many opportunities for people on either side to get up to no-good. There must be clarity all the way through. An Independent body MUST be set up, (witnessed) and they must be the only ones who handle these votes.
Video CCTV 24 hrs a day surveillance must be set up, so when they are in “storage” no one can tamper with them. Better bar code systems for tracking who has voted should also be set up.
And when they are actually being counted, everything should be open to witnesses, at ALL times, none of this out of sight stuff that was going on. Counting tables have to be placed in positions so that the witnesses can see the actual voting paper.
I do hope it is up there as a “must do” on Nicola Sturgeons list of priorities regarding honesty in voting.
That’s me donated Kevin. We met at the Wings Edinburgh night and have watched your live Independence gigs when I couldn’t manage to go myself. You are doing a great job . Thanks!
Nana. I have to laugh or weep at the broadcasters when they called us separists but Ukrainians, Hong Kong people and Catalonians as pro democracy fighters!!
Donald Anderson. I think you do Facebook a disservice! It has now become a huge site for Indy supporters. I’m on lots of sites who debate and give links to many worthwhile subjects. They also post all the rallies coming up in the future and you can chat to the people before you go! You also get any news very quickly. Try it some time!
@BtP: Sometimes the image appears, sometimes you revert to the basic blocks design. Seems to be chosen at random.
@Nina Smith: Catalonia is beyond doubt Spain’s wealthiest region. If they break apart, the rest of Spain is going to face really hard times. Did you have a look on Spain’s current economical health? Unemployment rate soars over 20% in most regions… And it’s more than 30% in the 20-25 years demographic…
Just had a look at the new franchise winner’s plans for Scotrail. Proper trains back between the cities from 2016.
http://www.abellio.com/news/abellio-awarded-contract-operate-scotlands-national-railway-scotrail
As far as I am aware First Group pretty much sat on the fence regarding the referendum…which I don’t have an issue with. Whether that changed closer to the date I don’t know.
The trouble with these EU competitive tenders is that there are strict rules, if Allepio are cheaper or offer a better package they will win.
That said Scotfail drove me close the edge a couple of years ago I know drive most of the way because I got fed up with the delays and cancellations. A shorter train journey proving much less stressful. I wrote and complained but was palmed off with bland excuses and barefaced lies.
I tend to agree with the RMT that we should have just brought rail back in house rather than re-tender. Allepio are the Dutch state owned railway.
Abellio – beg their puddings
Standard Life will today receive my documents which pulls my pension from them and puts it to another major Pension company who did not threaten the people of Scotland.
I am disgusted with them and the BBC.
License fee payments also cancelled.
HandandShrimp
I read something, quite sometime ago, that Westminster still controls our railways due to the Railway privatisation legislation. Holyrood’s remit is just to run the railways under the legislation. I agree that all matters regarding the railways should be brought back under public ownership, the railway infrastructure and all services. We could have done that under a Yes vote.
@ Nana Smith
Re: the Hootsman article regarding Labours’ low poll rating.
The comments are an eye-opener – very one-sided in favour of pro-indy posts, hardly a naesayer amongst them. Quite refreshing given that papers’ bias and most of the activity on its comments sections of late largely Unionist in nature. Are the so-called “silent majority” melting away for a while?
HandandShrimp
The Dutch Railway system works, as does the Danish.
Marcia 10:10am
The Abellio offer reads like they have a vision to bring our rail service up to modern European standards. It will be interesting to read what the failed bidders offered, or not, as the case may be.
As mentioned on the WoS Twitter, the Labour Party ( North Britain branch) are already lining up to moan. Just hope Keith Brown explains the whole tendering and decision making process.
Ronnie Anderson
The Lamont household have had a “grand plan” for years.
Johann was to be First Minister of Scotland with a Labour victory at Holyrood and Archie was to lead Glasgow City Council.
A Labour victory at Westminster was to be the icing on the cake. Westminster would have changed the funding process and would have directed money straight to City Councils throughout Britain. This would have given Archie billions in funding and Johann would have passed council friendly laws.
It would have been a win win situation for the Lamonts.(and their bank book) But, thank god their whole plan has went “tits up”.
The Scottish electorate see right through Lamont and her band of gangsters and thankfully her and Archie will never reach their promised land.
I do hope what I am writing doesn’t cause any friction within the Scottish Labour Party.
I visited this site last night for the first time. My nephew pointed me in your direction, he advised me that I would not be disappointed, well I will have to tell him that he was wrong just people arguing and getting nowhere, too many sites like this. As a soft yesser who fits the demographic of being old, middle class and quite comfortably off, I was looking for info to show no voting friends the error of their ways. Thank goodness I checked first before telling them about you, needless to say will not be back.
An academic study has been done by a Professor from a South African University into press coverage in Scotland during the final year of the referendum.
You can see him talking about his research.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bYajHIcXMk&feature=youtu.be
No, no…
The tender process has to be transparent and abide by OJEU rules. Failure to comply causes all sorts of problems, legal challenges and the like. It was the last Labour Government had to place our third Fishery Protection vessel with Poland.
The Labour Party is an secular cult.
First group have connections to both Labour and the Lib Dems. Nicol Stephen used to Work for them, and they have a long history of donating to the Labour Party (why do you think Labour never re-regulated bus services when they were in control at Holyrood?).
Schroedinger’s Cat merely asked for clarification on whether the SSP would continue to stand against the SNP, not that it made much difference. Instead he was answered with persona abuse that should nor belong here.
Robert Brotherhood gave an honest reply in that he was an ordinary SSP member and not of the controlling clique so had no idea.
We all know that Independence to the SNP is a CAUSE and not just a bum of the Month ISSUE. Independence is not just for Xmas.
Last time I went to catch a train at Waverley. Missed it. It was parked up in front of the train on the platform. The conductor? would not open the doors.Once they did it transpired it was the train to Perth. A broken journey to Dundee and onwards meant another 1/2 an hour.
The line from the central belt to the North has not even been electrified. It would save over 1/2 an hour on the journey. Scottish taxpayers are being expected to pay for the white elephant HS2. Osbourne and associates corrupt pension fund. Adding to the corrupt Royal Mail sell off.
Rail services do their best in the circumstances.