Kelly’s Heroes
Posted on
December 15, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Because some of you won’t have seen it yet.
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 04-23
- 04-22
- 04-21
- 04-20
- 04-19
- 04-17
- 04-17
- 04-17
- 04-16
- 04-16
- 04-16
- 04-15
- 04-15
- 04-15
- 04-14
- 04-13
- 04-10
- 04-09
- 04-05
- 03-28
Recent Comments
- on Unhinged Malady: “YEP if the NATs want to blame anyone for this clown show might I suggest they look in a mirror…” Apr 24, 06:28
- on Unhinged Malady: “Can you imagine if that bunch of tubes gained power? We’d have puberty blockers added to the water, a 95%…” Apr 24, 06:04
- on Unhinged Malady: ““It’s a racist party. Designed to noise up the disenfranchised to blame everyone else for their woes” there goes another…” Apr 24, 05:05
- on Unhinged Malady: “It’s simple; effectively contempt of court. Put her in the same cell as “Isla Bryson” for a lengthy spell and…” Apr 24, 02:00
- on The Disgrace Of Holyrood: “Is that not a Musk N salute the Trannie keeps doing at the repetitive end?” Apr 24, 01:31
- on Unhinged Malady: “Reform are just another establishment tool. They can’t even be honest about their accounts far less be honest to voters.…” Apr 24, 00:34
- on Unhinged Malady: “I don’t think they would have. They’re an English court who only seen things through an English lens. They’ve practically…” Apr 23, 23:42
- on The Disgrace Of Holyrood: “It’s amazing innit? How other countries all over the fucking world manage to conduct their affairs without running it past…” Apr 23, 23:16
- on Unhinged Malady: “It’s started! Scottish Borders Council ordered to provide what should never have been changed in the first place.” Apr 23, 23:07
- on Unhinged Malady: ““Mr Harvie said he does believe a trans woman is a woman.” https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25111265.swinney-told-apologise-women-scotland-summit/ People voted for him!” Apr 23, 22:12
- on Unhinged Malady: “There must be a law in Scotland that can be used to remove public servants with this level of incompetence.…” Apr 23, 21:53
- on The Disgrace Of Holyrood: “Is that the Scottish Family Party? You can’t mean the “Conservatives”, surely
” Apr 23, 21:43 - on Unhinged Malady: “Trumpesque accountability. They are deranged, unhinged, totally unfit for any office and supported by the state media machine. Essentially the…” Apr 23, 21:18
- on Unhinged Malady: “Yeh but don’t worry – Swinney had an away day to sort out Reform in Scotland. And they came away…” Apr 23, 21:17
- on Unhinged Malady: “Second poll conducted since Supreme Court decision has RefUK up 2% on poll from same company one week earlier. YouGov,…” Apr 23, 20:48
- on Unhinged Malady: “While I agree with you I think that Ross Greer is even more terrifying And I don’t think for a…” Apr 23, 20:15
- on Unhinged Malady: “Must have been torture putting this together Stuart and having to listen to this mental mix of soulless meaningless words..thing…” Apr 23, 19:58
- on Unhinged Malady: “Shes a fucking fruit bat. Mad as fuck. She won’t condone violence, but won’t apologise as people are scared. Not…” Apr 23, 19:43
- on Unhinged Malady: “https://archive.ph/C794D Here’s the archive link to that Herald article; when I followed your link I hit a paywall. So I’ve…” Apr 23, 19:38
- on The Disgrace Of Holyrood: “In another case that should never have been needed to be taken to court are the two parents of a…” Apr 23, 19:23
- on The Disgrace Of Holyrood: “Geri, you haven’t even thought about how and more importantly who will write those constitutions. While many of you want…” Apr 23, 19:15
- on Unhinged Malady: “twathater: the judges cannot, unilaterally, interpret, remake or introduce laws. Someone has to take a case to them. That is…” Apr 23, 19:03
- on Unhinged Malady: “I firmly believe, Alf, had anyone brought a case before the Scottish courts, or even the UKSC, on the same…” Apr 23, 18:51
- on Unhinged Malady: “ANYONE-ANYONE ANYWHERE HEARD FROM THE AUTHOR OF ALL THIS MESS OR IS SHE/HER/THEY/IT RAPIDLY RE WRITING HER/IT /THEY FICTIONAL BOOK??” Apr 23, 18:26
- on The Disgrace Of Holyrood: “MaryB Swinney is stuck in “rabbit caught in the headlights” mode and has decided to play chicken hoping that the…” Apr 23, 18:22
- on Unhinged Malady: “Quite right Geri but Professor Frink is clearly on a (heavily funded) mission. Strange that the Revs pic above of…” Apr 23, 18:12
- on Unhinged Malady: “The woman is undoubtedly well out of her depth and was like a rabbit caught in the headlights trying to…” Apr 23, 18:00
- on Unhinged Malady: “https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25111146.schools-must-provide-single-sex-toilets-scotland/ Court of Session order that schools must provide single sex toilets. Today! More good news post the Supreme Court…” Apr 23, 17:48
A tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
I know we have to be kind to the afflicted but . . .
what a plonker!
This is the respect that Slab show to the people of Scotland
The P/O has shown remarkable restraint in telling 11 times, he is such a fuckin wean, even kids will obey after being telt twice
Will the PO have some ‘advice’ for the SLabbers who continued the desk-slapping after it became plain that hapless Kelly’s baws were about to be rapped?
And can anyone imagine the reaction if it had been an SNP member being ejected?
Just in case anyone has forgotten his previous “Best of the Best” performances!
link to youtube.com
James, ‘Sit Down’ –
link to youtube.com
He’ll be sorely missed.Not.
In my eyes James Kelly MSP is a living legend, and he can do no wrong.
What a clown.
Oh, nice one! Tricia Marwick is a cracking presiding officer, which is why Holyrood is head and shoulders above Westminster. And you are even allowed to clap!
The whole thing reminds me of being back at school and some silly little boy (“it wisnae me and am no ginnae apologise”) bleating the same rubbish over and over again to the exasperated teacher. In my day, Kelly would have been sent to the headmaster for the belt!
Reminds me of that old sketch “what’s your point caller” while pulling on the shirt coller.
Labour – desperately doing everything they can to bring the Scottish Parliament into disrepute; doing what they can to make it look like a “pretendy parliament”.
They KNOW what the rules are they KNOW how the Standing Orders work.
They are ‘AT’ it.
Make them history and stop Labour trying to bring our Scottish Parliament into disrepute. How?
SNP BOTH barrels SE2016
Thanks for that wee reminder Lesley-Anne, made me laugh out loud again. Whit a flamin numpty.
Mind you, going by today’s performance, he hiznae improved ony, hiz he?
To dissent:
Both Kelly and Presiding Officer equally stumbled and were inarticulate.
Raise your bloody standards, for Krist’s sake!
Quite incredible. The level of stupidity and incompetence is incredible.
If it had been any other party I would have thought this was tactical to get someone kicked out so that they could play the victim in the “one party state” but Scot Lab are not that bright
Marie Clark says:
15 December, 2015 at 10:20 pm
Thanks for that wee reminder Lesley-Anne, made me laugh out loud again. Whit a flamin numpty.
Mind you, going by today’s performance, he hiznae improved ony, hiz he?
To be honest Marie I’m at a loss as to which *ahem* performance should now be *cough* categorised as his “best”.
Grouse Beater
I thought the Presiding Officer handled it pretty well.Labour shouldn’t really allow Mr Kelly any sort of platform.He makes a fool of himself and the whole Labour Party.
Almost a minute and he “couldnie make a point of order” maybe it was a pint of Guinness that muckled his tongue !
Respect the Chair
It showed clearly that Labour has no wish too. Will Dugdale apologise on behalf of the Labour Party?
You have got it wrong G Beater. The Presiding Officer was polite and offered several times for Kelly to make his point. Maybe he just forgot!
maybe this is a new tactic , disrupt disrupt disrupt, they seek to have the same farcical pantomime , as Westmonster….
She really is an excellent PO, but I think she’d have got a quicker result with the formula I heard on the train the other day:
“Jack, sit doon, else yer maw’s gaunae explode!” Jack sat doon pronto, thus avoiding a spectacular mess. If only Kelly had shown similar common-sense!
To be honest i have never been a fan of this Presiding Officer, not a good speaker at all. Having said that Scottish Labour have basically gave up on winning anything and are now just there to cause as much trouble as possible, to bring the parliament into disrepute.
They are an utter disgrace, lets finish them for good next year
She should have skelped the back of his legs and sent him to his room.
House rule: Make your point of order first, then you have three minutes to discuss.
What is so difficult about this that Mr Kelly (and a number of his colleagues) struggle to understand?
Kelly is comedy gold, but the real point is the desperation which is visably emerging with ever outrageous claims and behavior from Slab et al.
Tick tock!
May can’t come soon enough!
The Presiding Officer was polite
Stand well back and you might perceive it differently. At one point I was certain she needed prompting as to what to do, and sure enough the script was placed on her table.
Neither demonstration of competence is edifying.
Just about everyone in Scotland (apart from the Tories obviously) think the new anti-Union laws are unpleasant and vindictive. Nicola does, Jeremy does (so Kezia probably does) Patrick does, Colin Fox certainly does and Willie…who knows what Willie thinks but you get the gist
So why histrionics? It seems utterly pointless. Personal enmity between Kelly and the PO? A phase of the moon? A Christmas cracker joke?
Does anyone care?
The Labour resection of msp’s has nothing to with today’s activities, on the basis that any publicly is good publicity.
John Mackay just said that Kelly was asked to leave the chamber after trying to make a point of order
Kelly desperately trying to impress labour members with his credentials, hoping for 2nd or 3rd place on the list for the west of Scotland
the bun fight has really started
lets remind ourselves what Brian Wilson thinks of list msps 2003,
Calls to reform the two-tier Holyrood electoral system grew yesterday when a leading Labour MP branded the 56 MSPs elected to the parliament via top-up lists as “an unemployed waste of space”.
The remarks by Brian Wilson, a former government minister, fuelled speculation that Labour intends to scrap the list system by the 2007 Scottish election.
Dissatisfaction with the current model has led to suggestions that it ought to be replaced by a single transferable vote (STV) system.
Under STV, constituencies would be larger and each would have several members. Voters would rank candidates in order of preference.
Of Scotland’s 129 MSPs, 73 have won first past the post seats. The 56 beneficiaries of the regional lists do not have individual constituencies.
The Cunninghame North MP said: “In the Highlands and Islands every one of these people finished third in constituency elections, yet as a consolation they are made MSPs anyway. I don’t see anything democratic about that.
“Personally I would not weep any tears if the list system was done away with. I regard list MSPs as an underemployed waste of space.
“They have no constituency, they have no role and they are not elected by anyone.”
Peter Peacock, the Education Minister, is one of four Labour MSPs elected by the list system. He was elected on the Highlands and Islands list with Maureen Macmillan. Marlyn Glen and Richard Baker entered Holyrood on the North East list. Mr Peacock denied that he was underemployed or a waste of space.
The Scotland Act would have to be amended at Westminster to change the electoral system, making it difficult for any proposal to be considered before the next General Election.
In the summer Lord Steel of Aikwood, the former presiding officer, suggested that the introduction of STV could coincide with boundary changes that will see the number of Scottish MPs at Westminster fall from 72 to 59 – to be put before the Commons by 2006.
A spokesman for the First Minister said: “Brian Wilson is entitled to his views, but the First Minister has made it clear that he doesn’t think that it is a priority to talk about electoral systems.
“Some list MSPs are good but others may not be quite as conscientious.”
Bruce Crawford, the Scottish National Party list MSP for Mid Scotland and Fife, said: “What’s needed is mature debate, not more childish outbursts from Mr Wilson.”
It sounded like a sketch from Scots Squad. Tricia Marwick wasn’t entirely convincing as Officer Karen, but James Kelly had Bobby off to a tee.
Who has been the biggest numpty today?
1. James ‘sit down’ Kelly
or
2.Severin ‘PFI’ Carrell
Labour had the opportunity to devolve additional powers to Scotland via the Smith Commission. They refused. The inability of the Scottish Parliament to block or amend the Trade Unons Bill is the one of many consequences of their intransigence. They really are numpties.
Where is Barbara Woodhouse when you need her?
Grouse beater
“Stand well back” . No need to. The Chair speaks you sit down and you don’t interrupt . Very simple. Kelly was like the wee spoilt boy that believed he deserves to be heard. He had a minute to say what his point of order was and couldn’t. He disrespected the chair and parliament. He has a day off tomorrow . Maybe on Thursday he will be sitting next to Dugdale!
He is the Chief Whip responsible for discipline ! Naw he isnie, yes I am um its in my point of orders! Sit down.
Wow, look like libeour are in the last stages of accepting their demise. Wreck the office as you exit.
Btw, wings keep collapsing, using opera as well…grrrrr.
Just looking at that some might think the chair or whatever its called was just as much to blame
But people who know Kelly might think the chair is sick of listning to his pish (or mince if the last word gets***)
SNP/SNP
I don’t know it its rule No.1, but “Thou shalt not argue with the Presiding Officer” must be close to the top.
Could this be labour’s puerile attempt at politicising the role of the P.O. Now they can say this nasty nat is picking on them. They’ve tried everything else, now wait for these losers along with their friends at the Record to give Marwick the smear treatment. James Kelly is an embarrassment to politics. Will Kezia back Kelly or will she do the right thing by supporting the rules and laws of the chamber? It was a four pronged attack on the P.O. by a bunch of dead sheep.
What in the name o’ the wee…?
No, never mind.
GrouseBeater, sorry, but you are incorrect. He created a difficult situation and the speaker had to be very careful about following the correct parliamentary protocols… which she did impeccably. If those on the Labour benches were even half competent as politicians, it wouldn’t even have happened.
I suspect the fool thought he could emulate Salmond interrupting the chancellor’s budget speech in Westminster… spectacular failure if so ?
@Grousebeater
she needed prompting as to what to do, and sure enough the script was placed on her table.
Possibly nobody has ever been such a fud before in the parliament, and she needed to remind herself of the rules.
What is wrong with those Slab people, they have ants in their pants. Do you think they’re worried about something?
Grey Dug@10.43, Spot on.
Like already said, Slabs tactics will be disruption,
they have thrown basically everything they have at the SG, and have failed miserably.
I wonder what garbage they will throw, round about Thursday (Reporting Misery time?)
More lies that they medja will run with all weekend, but hey ho they will look like bigger ar*e holes come next Monday.
Its just like Christmas every day, watching this lot.
Sounds like Labour are’ Revolting’ in the Scottish Parliament.
What’s new ?
Next !
she did impeccably
We have to drop our prejudices to see clearly.
Kelly was an ass. Granted. I have not disputed that.
I’m surprised at how flustered the presiding officer became, no one liner to floor him, no smart humour to bring him down, and a curious lack of timing in her interventions. It was also graceless. Perhaps it was lack of practice even if it finally got the desired effect.
Anyhow, it’s done and gone. Next time she’ll be better prepared.
@Kenny says: 15 December, 2015 at 10:14 pm:
… In my day, Kelly would have been sent to the headmaster for the belt!”
As Bing Crosby once said to Frank Sinatra, (in the song, “What A Swell Party this Is”), “You must be one of the newer guys”.
In my day the teacher him/herself would have had the Lochgelly out and swinging after Kelly’s first attempt at speaking back. Either that or he would have been nursing a sore head after being struck from a distance with a heavy duty blackboard duster.
No doubt Alastair Darling and other revolutionaries will produce a banner depicting James Kelly’s heroic deeds in standing up to a brutal dictator.
Either that or the people will see Kelly and his colleagues as complete dicks feigning injury ro garner support!
The object of the exercise was to make James Kelly famous. That has succeeded.
Some Labour MSPs want to try and renew some credibility with trade unionists in Scotland by demanding that the Scottish Parliament have a debate about a UK bill that does not, according to the presiding officer, concern devolved matters. I think many of us outside the Labour Party are opposed to this UK legislation but are sceptical or even confused about the actions of these Labour MSPs. Surely a political party that supports the union should not be trying to use the Scottish Parliament to undermine the legislative responsibilities and powers of the UK parliament. These politicians just make me angry. I think they are possibly in the wrong party but I’m seriously hoping they stay there long enough to get their well deserved p45s from the electorate.
When he was up, he was up,
Then he wouldn’t sit down
When he was up he’d not shut up
So he was kicked out ….
@Grouse Beater says: 15 December, 2015 at 10:38 pm:
“Stand well back and you might perceive it differently. At one point I was certain she needed prompting as to what to do, and sure enough the script was placed on her table.”
Now I may be wrong but I assumed what was placed before her would almost certainly be, (by correct standing orders procedure), the actual copy of the Standing orders.
Grousebeater,
Not many instances arise come up where such dogged ignorance of procedure arise and it is important that it is dealt with correctly which is just what Mrs Marwick did with much more tolerance than Kelly deserved. In an official Opposition that is alarmingly low in ability James Kelly shines out like a beacon.
When the parliament is in session the Presiding Officer is always accompanied by an SP official who is there to provide advice and guidance on procedure and this was what you saw today. A similar role is carried out in the Commons chamber where the clerk sits below the Speakers Chair
[i] “The object of the exercise was to make James Kelly famous.” [/i]
Infamous Dave
Heard the expression “jumping the shark” being used for Labour in this pantomime by Kelly. No idea what that meant so did the usual Google.
The series “Happy Days” was at its lowest point so they had the Fonz jump over a shark on water skis. The wished to revive a failing entertainment by such desperate stunts.
So Labour jumping the shark. Very apt use of modern language Stu but sometimes we oldies need explanations.
Not much clearer instance of a sense of entitlement running into a wall of reality.
‘Scottish’ Labour takes embarrassing and disrespectful to a whole new level.
Kelly’s got form on “points of order”, it’s almost a weekly occurrence, so he knows the procedure, what you saw was an attempt at intimidation, maybe he thought he could establish a ” pecking order” over her, God knows what goes on in that head!,
But I do think that that fellow (who’s name I’ve forgotten just now) reporting from the Scottish parliment for S.T.V., was wrong when he said that in his opinion it would not have done J.Kelly’s standing any harm, and he went further to suggest that his reputation within Labour would be enhance.
He’s so wrapped up in believing his own propaganda he does notknow he is an idiot.
I hadn’t realised until I saw the Rev’s extended version of the clip that it was obviously a planned attack by Slab, hence the serial points of order from the Labourites.
They failed miserably through the incompetence of Kelly.
Luigi @ 10.37 pm
Correct .
Kelly’s failure to direct his point of order on arriving to his feet was the start of his misjudgement .
This must be done first followed by 3 mins of explaining , alas Kelly then proceeded to give PM lip instead , slam Dunc yer Oot !
Neil Finlay thought he would muscle in ,but being a wee bit brighter light on the tree , decided to sit doon.
O boy what a day .
Rev wrote:
“Because some of you won’t have seen it yet.”
Thanks, i certainly hadn’t!
As for Kelly and his heroes – so pathetically inept they took the opportunity to make a name for themselves, BANG, what a backfire. I wonder what Dippy Dug has got to say on her tantrum throwing petted lipped spoilt brat?
Well done Tricia Marwick for showing London’s gophers that we have our own ball. Ned Kelly & Doc Simpson shot down in the blink of an eye. Slabber gophers, smell the fear, 05.05.16
SNP x 2
@caledonia says: 15 December, 2015 at 10:59 pm:
“Just looking at that some might think the chair or whatever its called was just as much to blame”
Sorry, Caledonia, but you are wrong. The definition of, “A point of Order”, is –‘a query in a formal debate or meeting as to whether correct procedure is being followed’.
The, “Orders”, being the set of agreed written rules of the procedure for running the meeting.
Thus the very first requirement of making a point of order is to state the order that your point applies to. Kelly not only did not state the point of order but persisted in making a speech even when respectfully requested to state the Point of Order.
He then insisted he should continue with his wee speech without interruption by the PO, and he was given, (I think), about 11 chances before being told to sit down,(Which, BTW, is itself a standing Order – When the Presiding Officer speaks the person on their feet must sit down). Kelly refused to do so even after being several times requested to do so.
He thus left the PO no other option but to, (wait for it), invoke Standing Orders and ask him to leave the chamber. He then broke standing orders again by refusing to leave and was escorted out. As per standing orders.
As the saying goes The PO followed Standing Orders to the Book, (except she gave him far many chances).
Swizzels!! He’s not had the magic Swizzels! Mine worked. I can see, clearly, that he is a person who will not, ever, be in charge. Thank the celestial beings that he will forever see the “get oot” hand of the chairperson. Phew.
Completely OT
Just watched a programme on Alba which highlighted the interest in Scottish Gaelic in Germany from university courses to less formal courses, Highland Games, Clan Societies. Some of the Germans had better Gaelic than me and I spent 15-20 years learning it.(forgotten more than I remember in the past 20 years).
It seems that Celtic culture and Scottish Gaelic is more appreciated in Germany than by many Scots themselves whether the motivation is academic, musical, romantic, literary or just because they like the sound of it or find it interesting.
One German decided to seek British citizenship but insisted on taking the British Citizenship exam in Scottish Gaelic. They tried to deny him that right but eventually conceded that it was a British language and enlisted interpreters to prepare the paper.
As such he was the first person ever to sit a Citizens test in Scottish Gaelic.
Another female poet writes poetry now in Scottish Gaelic and the example she recited I found moving.
She said when she learned the language she realised that this was her language, the language she had to use for her poetry.
Found the programme inspirational, humbling, educational and shame-inducing all at the same time.
The second he challenged the presiding officer as he did, his fate should have been sealed. She in fact gave him too many chances before he was ejected.
What an utter buffoon he made of himself today.
The move was of course political in wanting the PO to rule on a non devolved matter. That would have had repercussions for Ms Marwick herself and her position may have been untenable if she let the subject go ahead.
It would have been a direct challenge to Westminster.
Chic @ 11.57
Sad but True Chic.
Ask Runrig & Wolfstone , they can headline to massive audiences in Germany , Denmark etc
Sorry if anyone has said this but has anyone considered this is Slab putting into place the first step for discrediting the PO as “sympathetic” to the SNP due to her previous affiliations? Antagonise her and they get reprimanded, they claim she is picking on them, another (weak) stick to attack the SNP with.
Bob Mack. 11.58
That post strengthens my belief that this was an insipient revolt in the Scottish Parliament by Slab.
Their intention to discredit the PO and the edifice of Scottish democracy.
The laugh is they picked James Kelly to lead their coup.
He ain’t exactly Che is he.
I think it was planned, although he is still a bell end.
If he was my colleague I’d be ashamed and embarrassed. His colleagues were far from it instead choosing to be just as discourteous to the PO.
Please let the polls be right.
People of Scotland BEWARE, these Unionists are all out for themselves and to undermine our Scottish parliament at every opportunity. We must rid ourselves of this plague and thoroughly fumigate our parliament come May 2016. Vote SNP x 2
_________________________
btw, For those of you who enjoy his work, there is now available on BBC iplayer a portrait of Scottish writer William Mcllvanney.
“William Mcllvanney: Living With Words”
link to bbc.co.uk
Apologies to all fans of Mcllvanney who can’t get iplayer.
It may be available on youtube.
@Glamaig says: 15 December, 2015 at 11:04 pm:
” … Possibly nobody has ever been such a fud before in the parliament, and she needed to remind herself of the rules.”
No, Glamaig, While I have not read the Holyrood Chamber Standing Orders I’ve read many others. The laid down procedure normally states that if such a state of affairs is met the Presiding Officer/Chairperson shall read the decision from the Standing Orders and a copy of those Standing Orders is kept at hand and were seen being passed across to Ms Marwick.
This whole thing was really no more than Kelly being as thick as mince.
In formal debates or meetings what you mean when you get to your feet and cry, “Point of Order”, is that you believe proper meeting procedure is not being followed.
The rules demand you must therefore state the Order that you are claiming is not being followed.
Kelly not only did not do so but proceeded to speechify.
He was requested to state the Point Of Order and refused.
He was given more than ample time to state the point of order and not only refused to do so but accused the PO of interrupting him.
The guy was, as they say, “right out of order”.
It is now after midnight so I’m going to bed. But how many expressions used in everyday converse have been explained in us debating the matter – such as, “Kelly was right out of order”, how many of you knew that was where the expression came from?
Believe me I have taken part in many, many (mainly Trade Union), meetings where some Labour Party numpty gets to their feet shouting, “Point of Order”, who hasn’t a clue what a Point of Order is.
I’ll say it again – A point of order is a belief that the meeting’s rules of procedures is not being followed.
Now go and watch the provide clip again with that in mind and you will understand Kelly was off on a tangent that had nothing to do with the procedures or rules of the debating chamber.
“O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us. To see oursels as ithers see us! It wad frae mony a blunder free us, An’ foolish notion”.
Kelly is a fanny.
KILL ME WITH HAMMERS if ye dare but I’m right
@Tackety Beets
Yes, I knew that, although Wolfstone have been disbanded for some time.
The thing I remember from, oh 25 years ago or so, was one of the top musical awards (Deutchenplatzen? Scuse the spelling) in Germany being won by the Battlefield Band who I suspect still remain unknown to the majority of Scots.
And the popularity there of the bagpipes (duddlesack?)
Similarly Capercaillie were at one time very popular in Spain.
I am also aware of the much more historical popularity in Europe of ‘Ossian’. A work which many credit as being the birth of neo-Romanticism in Europe through Scott, Lamartine, Goethe and others. Napoleon even carried a copy wherever he went whether in battle or prison.
However, I guess what struck me, was the still current interest in Gaelic in terms of it being worthy of study whether for academic or cultural reasons when so many here are seemingly willing to discount it.
I think Slab may have seen the opposition MP physically removing the Ukrainian Prime Minister from the podium last week and decided to try pull a wee lame stunt of their own.
With their poll standings they are that desperate.
Scot Gov rule book,
Rule 8.17 Points of order
1. A member may in any proceedings question whether proper procedures have been or are being followed by making a point of order.
2. In making a point of order, a member may not speak for more than 3 minutes and may not speak on the question under consideration. Points of order shall take precedence over the question under consideration, the discussion of which shall be suspended while they are being considered.
3. The Presiding Officer shall normally take an immediate decision on any point of order in accordance with these Rules but may exceptionally defer taking a decision. The Presiding Officer shall announce the ruling made under this rule.
link to tinyurl.com
The PO can`t let him proceed until she knows the point of order in case it relates to the question under consideration.
@Tackety Beets
PS Also Donnie Munro of Runrig once said (as best I can remember)
“It’s a case of today the World, tomorrow – England.” and he was the unionist in that woodpile.
Always amuses me when Labour Party buffoons start speaking in that psycho-babble officialdom language. They remind me of the Marx Brothers ‘Sanity Clause’ sketch.
Apologies. This is totally O/T
But knowing that combatting media bias is something close to Scotland’s heart here’s an
Appeal from Sinn Fein
“RTE News (irish national TV/radio service i.e. irish BBC ) certainly out done themselves today. With stories on various aspects of the health crisis appearing in the news almost everyday they managed to miss/ignore the fact that one of the main opposition parties published a comprehensive Health Policy today. In an effort to help us beat the self-censors in RTE could you, on our behalf, help circulate our proposals as far and wide as possible”
Please read and circulate
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
thanks to all of you for your help and solidarity
Watch the UK parliament, the second the speaker says order, whoever is speaking sits…immediately. Remember Angus getting cut off at the end during the Scotland Bills amendments debacle?
The second the PO said to him to get on wi it, he should have immediately sat down, then stood up again and got on wi it. End of.
Grouse, she got a wee bit flustered because it is highly unusual for this type of behaviour from any member in the parliament, she was handed the standing orders during the confrontation, that’s clear, in fact her clerk was on it within a second.
I don’t think your criticism is fair on the PO in this instance, and having seen the subsequent Slab’s members repeat the the same PO, I think it was planned from Labour to do this, all of this was ‘out of order’ imo.
Personally I think she was trying to hold her ‘temper’. Which she did.
They’re at it, all of them. That Kelly’s a wee baby in a man’s suit.
The Labour Party en masse acting like unruly schoolchildren.
They really are the most incompetent politicians around. How they got elected in the first place on this performance really beggars belief!
How dare they try and discredit the Scottish Parliament with their stunts! This really shows the party in the worst light possible; putting party interest over governance of a country.
I wouldn’t put them in charge of a tuck shop.
As noted above by dakk, a wee sleekit attempt by the SLAB-BRITS to undermine the Scots parliament along the lines of the recent Ukranian example?
What next? Fisticuffs in the chamber as they realize their tea is oot come the Holyrood elections next year?
Perhaps that recognition is now dawning, and Kelly was sent in to the ring as a Unionist attack dog, none too bright, to test the waters apropos a parliamentary coup attempt?
Failing that, how far could the Unionist bloc push things?
If so, they fair picked an inarticulate numptie to probe the possibilities (are he and Lament related?).
Mere parliamentary cannon-fodder, in this case, and unlike WM which actively consigns folk to an actual bloody death.
Kelly, a fool and a tool given the contempt on the face of the brat behind him and over his left shoulder.
I wonder who this vile individual is?
To be fair, it takes some of the Labour party three minutes to read the words “Point of order” from their script
Then there’s the standing up and the sitting down part, it must get confusing for them while they’re tripping over their own brains
#Ahm no gonnae
We need this on a loop
GB is spot on – neither protagonist behaved in an edifying manner.
But haud on a minute … . Are we missing the thin end of a main course here?
We have just seen SLab stand up and question the limitations of Holyrood and the rule of its PO, one of them after the other. The first, a particularly dim one granted, being unprepared to back down.
And in support of an SNP motion.
SLab is revolting!!* Against WM’s chains. Though doubtless it’ll take them a good while to realise it.
*[We hadn’t noticed, honestly]
This is far more interesting than Mr Kelly behaving just like er …, Mr Kelly.
It was the SNPs fault they should have known this might happen
And therefore strapped him to a chair.
Saying that its a straight jacket some of these labour msps need
Mr Kelly’s tone became disrespectful very rapidly and to me, sounded like he was trying to be bullying.
So no one ever got to hear if he had something useful to say.
Surely JK MSP has enough experience to know how to behave in that work environment and what the likely outcome of his behaviour would be.
Or was that a feeble attempt to copy someone he could never hope to equal?
Really not getting the criticism of the PO. She asks for the point of order, the sensible and respectful reply would be “sorry” followed by stating the point of order.
When Kelly started getting snippy the issue being focused on stopped being about the point of order and started being about his conduct.
James Kelly comes across as another Jimmy Hood type of SLab ignoramus. Publicly exhibiting totally immature, hystrionic behaviour whilst spouting pathetic verbalisations: more than anything just gaga vocalisations. Kezia Dugdale, Leader of the Party, surely leads the way with her own unique demonstrations of incompetence and bizarre, infantile behaviour. Very worrying indeed for Scotland and totally embarrassing for our Parliament as the World looks on.
Maybe they forget that not everyone is being conned by the Labour (even Unionist) controlled propaganda machine? There’s a big old World, MANY countries, beyond our shores monitoring what’s going on. More than willing I’m sure to trade / interact with an Independent Scotland when we dump the Westminster (hated the World over) / Unionist leeches and hey SLab behaviour (backed by their CorpMedia liars) no doubt just reinforces their opinion of when and how this will be accomplished.
There are hundreds of thousands of extremely articulate, highly intelligent and more than anything honest Scots out there but SLab seem to have difficulty in finding them. Hundreds of thousands of Scots who are very adept at counting indeed but SLab are lumbered with individuals who don’t seem to know how to use an abacus.
We have SLab constantly bleating on about dismal numeracy and literacy skill levels in Scotland whilst research findings highlight that Scotland ‘produces’ … ‘pours forth’ the the most highly educated adults in Europe (close to top in the World). Their figures are exaggerated of course but many of their own MSPs attitudes / aptitudes seem to support their own suppositions. Projection? I have no truck with English Labour, and they probably have the same percentage of dolts in their midst, but you can see how they look right down their noses at their most embarrassing (wee, poor, stupid) colleagues North of the border.
The so-called autonomous SLab outfit are still not allowed to hire and fire staff. London decides. God you couldn’t make it up and it just highlights what Scotland is truly having to contend with. A constant stream of ignorant Scottish numpties that have been outed as being (for decades) a bunch of Westminster stooges. How they, Westminster, must be caw, caw cawing at us. Laughing their heads off at having Labour politicians in Scotland happy to be dragged around, begging in some cases, like dogs at the end of their leads. Slithering along the floor, totally cowed, lapping up their crumbs. Meanwhile thousands of starving Scottish (one of the richest countries in the World) children are slithering about looking for some foodstuff just to keep them alive. Now having to be fed at the weekends and during (happy) holiday time. Scotland, and our children, could have been as happy as Norway. Labour made sure that didn’t / wasn’t going to happen and still steer this course.
There doesn’t seem to be much hope of SLab attracting half-decent politicians to their fold any time soon when they’ve reached such an intellectual and political rock bottom. Who in their right mind would want to join them now? Then again! Think about it. Wow. Scarey.
SLab have been involved in deceiving and robbing Scotland blind for decades now. They’ve proven to be totally incompetent (past and present), are now known to be out and out liars, war-mongers, hold a negative mindset and have nothing constructive to offer the Scots. More than anything their relationship with the Tories pre-Referendum (probably for decades in relationship to the Scots) became the absolute catalyst for many Scots (mostly Labour supporters) realising all of the aforementioned. Smiley, smirky Lamont (duped by Brown, Darling and her own ego) walking shoulder to shoulder with Davidson and Rennie finished the Labour Party off in Scotland. That’s when the penny actually dropped for many and there’s no turning back now.
They (as Unionists) absolutely stabbed us in the back last year, compounded that with their cronies in the Daily Record conning many Scots with the Vow and then fought the bit out in an attempt to ensure that Scotland had few powers indeed by demanding that practically nought should be devolved to Scotland re. the Smith Commission. We now have individuals like Kelly attempting to demand powers that his own Party ensured we didn’t get. Enough to make us think that we are all going doolally. As doolally as Kelly and the Labour Party.
And when I actually get over feeling doolally and think about SLabs constant demands for inquiries to be carried out I ask myself why the Scots (SNP) are not demanding a multitude of inquiries be carried out in relation to Labour Party actions / decisions such as blocking new bridge being built, Brown and pension pot stealing, the McCrone Report findings, 6000sq miles of Scottish seas and 7 oil fields being robbed from us by Wilson, Dewar, Blair etc. JUST FOR STARTERS.
The list is endless in fact and it’s high time that we all bucked up and demanded that it’s all made public because very few Scots seem to have any idea at all as to what’s actually been going on.
GB
“’m surprised at how flustered the presiding officer became, no one liner to floor him, no smart humour to bring him down, and a curious lack of timing in her interventions.”
I think that flutter spoke to HOW nonpartisan she is and she was not looking for an opportunity to support her party, she should be congratulated.
“Perhaps that recognition is now dawning, and Kelly was sent in to the ring as a Unionist attack dog”
ATTACK DOG?
If Kelly was left to get on with it he would have run round in circles and bitten his own tail!
Can I just point out, some of the architecture within that building is stunning…
Just saying like…
“Can I just point out, some of the architecture within that building is stunning… ”
Aye but did ye no see the stoor oan they rafters?
middens,
Mibbies they should get superKelly to float up there wi a duster?
Now let me get this straight (if I can) during the Smith commission am I right in thinking that Labour voted AGAINST the Scottish parliament’s right to take control of Union laws,
Now they want to raise a point of order to attack the PO for ruling that it is not within the remit of Holyrood to debate a non-devolved law which they voted against having devolved to Holyrood in the first place?
move over on that 5 bar gate yer leanin oan Lesley-Ann and get me a smock and a straw tae stick atween ma teeth!
POINT OF ORDER PRESIDING OFFICER
Is it true that the SNP government were aware the walls of Jericho were in a perilous state BEFORE they came tumbling down?
Ignorance is bliss. This is the Party who joined with the Tories to say vote NO. Vote NO you get nothing, Nothingness. Blank. Thick as two short planks.
Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.
jdman
Aye, an “ATTACK DOG” albeit he left his wallies at home.
A fcuking thug trying it on rapidly followed by the feral pack trying to circle, snap, and bite as they try it on, too.
PO to be commended for holding her nerve in the face of this pack of hyenas.
Out with the lot of them come Holyrood election.
PS Who IS that fcuk behind Kelly with the wannabe hard-man look?
“Who IS that fcuk behind Kelly with the wannabe hard-man look?”
Another member of Scottish Labour’s younger generation, 31-year-old Drew Smith has worked for the party in Scotland and at Westminster.
He represents Glasgow in the Scottish Parliament and is the party’s spokesman on the constitution, having formerly spoken on social justice.
He sat on the committee which examined the legislation which paved the way for the referendum on Scottish independence.
Iain Gray
I wonder if Slab thinks that Union folk will come back to them when they see that SNP/Holyrood can’t even debate it.
That might work if WLab was capable of doing something about it – but they are a shambles as opposition in Westminster, and this performance only reminds us of that fact.
Newsletters
Grammarly Visit My Editor ?
December 07 — December 13
Your Weekly Writing Update
ACTIVITY
2574 words checked
You were more active
than 83% of Grammarly users. (COOL)
Share with friends:
MASTERY
147 mistakes made (Oh)
You were more accurate (mistakes/words) than 22% of Grammarly users. (COOL)
VOCABULARY
655 unique words (jings)
Your vocabulary was more dynamic (unique/total words) than 86% of Grammarly users. (wow)
Share with friends:
Grammarly Premium found
266 additional advanced mistakes. 266 (Ah)
Upgrade to Fix Advanced Mistakes
YOUR SPELLING ADVERSARIES
dont
???
don’t (oh well, I Dont want to do that again)
TOP GRAMMAR MISTAKES
1. Incorrect punctuation with abbreviation
88 mistakes
2. Missing comma in compound sentence
29 mistakes
3. Incorrect spacing with punctuation
25 mistakes (Jesus dinne tell the Rev)
Grammerlys a pain in the arse
Jesus it even highlights a hudnae put in an apostrophe in grammerlys
Well you can F**k right off grammerly you F***ing Ba*&$ard
I F&£~#**G HATE YOU!
Tricia Marwick admits to being a geek about procedure, including standing orders, in this BBC article from May 2014.
So it’s unlikely she was flustered or uncertain about procedure yesterday.
link to archive.is
@Petra
Labour’s problem is staring them in the face and its one to which they cannot have an answer and still be part of UK Labour.
They have no focus, no vision for government or society in Scotland. In short they have no purpose. They were long since repurposed by Labour UK into simply another wing of a party machine, their one remit to ensure ‘regional’ votes and MPs, providing numbers/drones in Commons.
They gave over representing Scottish interests and Scotland as a country because they bought into the whole Labour is one party, the ‘UK’ is one homogeneous country of regions nonsense.
Unfortunately for them, those durned ‘regions’ had different ideas on that, valuing their respective histories, cultures, laws and government. Most notably though Scotland and the Scottish electorate, who ironically voted for the proverbial donkey with a red rosette for decades, still had and has this idea of individuality and self. The electorate may differ on how this should be expressed (devolved home rule or independence), but unlike Labour we do appear to appreciate that it requires government of the people of Scotland, by the people of Scotland.
The majority of Scots also recognise that any such government’s focus should be entirely on their problems, priorities and aspirations. Labour in Scotland simply cannot deliver on this idea, not politically and not ideologically, they are wedded to project UK and the heart of that project, its focus, is a house of government broken beyond repair, located in a bubble that shows its ignorance and contempt of Scottish interests on a daily basis.
Look on even the most well meaning of Labour’s left, Mr Corbyn, as a prime example of this lack of empathy or knowledge. I believe Scotland’s issues leave the man truly perplexed and why shouldn’t they? His issues, his interests, his knowledge base and comfort zone come from an entirely different culture and ideology. In short, a different country.
The SNP on the other hand are indeed Scotland’s national party. They have a focussed vision for Scotland’s governance, social justice, economic model and future. Whether folks are entirely agreed on the path or the end product or not, they do agree that the SNP have that purpose and a point. They know that the be all and end all for the SNP are the interests and well being of the Scottish electorate.
Labour threw their purpose over for a cushy ride a long time ago.
I take it Kelly’s point of order was the same point of order ,that Dr Richard Simpson asked.
was refusal to sit down due to incontinence.
Seriously, can you imagine Bercow taking this crap, he would have jumped down, run up, and punched him in the nuts.
Tricia Marwick may not be the most honey tongued but she knows what she is about. And it is normal to have clerks in the chair next to the PO passing on stuff, watch any chamber debate.
What I took from this is rather the frankly nuts way Scotland is run, with people trying to raise points of order about LCMs that the PO has to take legal advise on to make sure Westminsters toes aren’t trodden on. The new devo powers are just going to make this system worse.
@Grouse Beater at 11.12 pm Dec. 15
Sorry, GB, I’m usually with you in your proclamations, but I’m not sure I can agree when you say:
“I’m surprised at how flustered the presiding officer became, no one liner to floor him, no smart humour to bring him down, and a curious lack of timing in her interventions. It was also graceless. Perhaps it was lack of practice even if it finally got the desired effect.”
Where was the fluster from Marwick? How was she graceless? Could you give some examples of what she could/should have said in the situation?
Not having a go at you, just asking!
O/T links
Ah but is he telling a Carmichael.
link to twitter.com
link to commonspace.scot
link to oecd.org
link to ibtimes.co.uk
Scotland voted Labour keep the Tories out. Labour turned into the Tories and disintegrated. That was not what the electorate wanted. They can now vote SNP to keep the Tories out and stand up for Scotland from the Westminster lying criminals.
A little-known committee wants to scrap the practice of publishing the names of MPs arrested by police
link to archive.is
link to citywire.co.uk
link to welfareweekly.com
link to 972mag.com
link to morningstaronline.co.uk
Labour voted against devolving Trade Union legislation.
After the normal suspects writing to press saying Labour will increase the highest tax rate to pay for education or was it the mitigation welfare cuts Jackie Baillie now says that Labour would not raise the highest tax rate next year.
Also Glasgow City Council say they would not increase Council Tax next year.
Claims to be more progressive shot down when facing the barrel of the gun.
Just watched this online. Almost peeeed myself. Especially Presiding Officer’s put down on Mr Bloby or Biddy, whatever. Last time I heard “SIT DOWN” said like that I was in front of my primary school teacher. And she would have loved it.
We can expect Labour MSPs to deliver a co-ordinated underarm fart the next time the Presiding Officers back is turned. Giggles aplenty can be had among their ranks as the Presiding Officer struggles to identify the originator of the rude noise, because it was ALL OF THEM.
Like others, I too like it when Labour MSPs like James ‘aye ah’m urny’ Kelly get all proceduralistical..
Ned Kelly right enough.
Did anybody tell BBC Scotland of the rebellion in the Parliament yesterday by Scottish Labour thugs?
Because there seems to be a complete news blackout about it.
When you listen and watch the antics of Kelly, you have to ask yourself who the f..k would vote him in, in the first place…. The mind boggles.
Ditto, quite a few others,but despite strong competition from Jackie Bailley, the remains in their top clown position.
Labour appear to be turning Scotland’s parliament into a trashy daytime TV game show. All that is lacking is the burst of music as the failed contestant walks off stage, so might I suggest for Mr Kelly:
youtube.com/watch?v=qXIjE_gDw94
The roots of Labour’s demise in Scotland go back decades. Abandonment of Scotland’s specific interests lies at centre.
They had a huge opportunity to handle the IndyRef campaign differently. They missed it totally.
They could have adopted a ‘free vote’ approach where the official party line was neutral.
However a much better stance would have been to ‘the party of devolution’ and pushed DevoMax. IndyRef1 was always going to be a three option debate, and IMO DevoMax was always going to win!
How sadly it all turned out doesn’t need repeating. However, imagine the strong position Labour would have been in if they had pushed a genuine DevoMax package as a third way!?
They didn’t. DevoMax is dead, and the Labour Party in Scotland is dying.
Was he pushed? Did he jump?
Will we ever really care?
Abuse of points of order seems fairly rampant at Westminster but at least they have the good grace to introduce it first then speak pish.
The rules of Holyrood don’t actually specify that the point of order must be made first but do make it clear that anything else must justify and support it.
As no point did Kelly sound as if he was preparing the ground for a valid point of order.
If anything the PO was over indulgent given that if all 4 SLabers were going to use 3 minutes that’d be 12 taken out of the time available to the chamber.
As to being handed a copy of the Standing Orders, think of that like the judge at a murder trial being handed the black cap.
Having boxed himself into a corner, the look on Kelly’s face was priceless:
“Ye canna dae this tu me! Am Scottush Labour!”
Could someone point out to Labour MSPs that they campaigned furiously to deny Scotland the right to make it’s own Trade Union Law. They then lobbied the Smith Commission to ensure that virtually no extra powers were devolved to the Scottish Government.
Hence, it is not competent for MSPs to debate Trade Union Law.
That is reserved to Westminster, where labour have 1 MP, for the time being.
The CorpMedia would be the obvious channels for disseminating this information. Let’s see what’s in the papers and BBC today?
@jdman
The ‘hardman look’ behind the eloquent Kelly is (or was) the great labour hope about 18 months ago but has ‘subsequently’ seen the light. No need to worry about him.
link to archive.is
Bravo to the PO.
SNP x 2 best remedy.
I just took a keek at Kellys Wikipedia entry. If you are up for a chuckle take a swatch at his photo at the top of his entry.
Top trolling marks to whoever selected the photo. (I think it is the haircut that does it)
Do not click the link with a mouthful of tea/coffee. You have been warned!
link to en.wikipedia.org
Second lot of links posted around 8.25am in moderation.
Anyone interested best check back later.
Having to go Christmas shopping today. May take some time to recover afterwards!
SuperKellyGoesBallisticTriciaMarwickWasFerocious
or…
SuperKellyGoesBallisticExpelledForBeingAtrocious
link to youtube.com
@jdman says: 16 December, 2015 at 5:40 am:
” … I think that flutter spoke to HOW nonpartisan she is and she was not looking for an opportunity to support her party, she should be congratulated.”
If you know what was going on it is clear that Trish Marwick, and her staff, followed Standing Orders to the letter. If there was any fault, as you say, it was over tolerance by the Presiding Officer.
The accusations that Trish was hesitant doesn’t hold water. I’m certain that the pause was Trish actually waiting for the correct procedure laid down in Standing orders to be followed.
Kelly claimed, “A point of Order”. Points of Order take precedence and thus the PO must deal with the Point of order.
A point of order was not what Kelly was wibbling on about. At best it was a Labour Party attempt to force Holyrood to debate a non-devolve matter it has no legal powers to deal with – The Trade Union Bill.
This was NOT a Point of Order. It had absolutely nothing to do with Holyrood Standing Orders. In fact it was, “Out of Order”.
The Standing Orders procedure is for the PO to be handed the actual official copy of the, “Standing Orders”, and to read from it the decision of the PO. That was the hesitation – Trish was waiting for the Standing Orders to be given to her.
She then asked Kelly to state, “The Standing Order”, he was attempting to make his, “Point of Order”, about. As it wasn’t a, “Point of Order”, but simply a Labour Party objection to a Westminster Bill that Holyrood cannot deal with, he could not do so.
Furthermore, “Standing Orders”, states that as soon as the PO speaks the person on their feet sits down. Kelly not only did not sit down but verbally stated he would not do so. That is a direct challenge to the Scottish Parliament’s authority and Trish was far too lenient by not immediately asking Kelly to leave the chamber and if he refused have him forcibly removed by security.
Should have added.
To my mind, Mr Kelly’s facial extremities somewhat resemble those of the Rev I. M. Jolly, in a certain light you understand.
But the thing is, the Rev was doing it deliberately, for laughs, as is not the case with the inept Kelly, although the humour resulting from his interventions is often the same.
Apologies to Mr R. Fulton
I don’t think it’s a lack of discipline so much as a lack of professionalism, and a degree of hubris thrown in for good measure,
Labour have lost their way, and see it as their job to discredit and rubbish all things SNP and/or pro Independence. Its a rather feeble minded objective to have, but when you see Kezia Dugdale’s “innovative”take of FMQ’s, it’s a failing that goes to the top. Why let the business of government get in the way of contriving awkward SNP sound bites for the BBC to blow through its trumpet? I find it tiresome, and I’m heartened at the possibity that the Speaker finds it tiresome too.
I’m not a fan of Parliament’s formal procedures. For me, it has overtones of Westminster’s disingenuous traditions which have no place in a modern Scottish democracy. But notwithstanding, the post of speaker does require absolute authority, and the members would do well to remember it.
I think perhaps the standing of the Speaker was diminished by the events, but not by any failure on her part, but because due respect for the position was not given. The standing of Kelly however was diminished tenfold, and credit where it’s due, it was all his own doing.
Brian Taylor’s description of the rammy at Holyrood was fair and factual I thought.
link to archive.is
Also, here is the BBC’s description of what the PO ruling was from 10th December. To me the ruling looks absolutely fair.
“However, the presiding officer replied saying that ‘my view is that the parliament’s legislative consent is not required, and it is not competent to lodge a legislative consent memorandum’.”
Trade Union Law is a reserved matter and so it is not competent to give Westminster “permission” to legislate on this.
link to archive.is
The Labour party campaigned, lied, threatened, and voted for power to be retained by Westminster in all it’s forms
Then complains to the SNP to do something about all the power retained in Westminster that they voted for
The Labour party then seriously expects the people of Scotland to pay attention to anything they have to say on any subject whatsoever
Sit down Mr Kelly, or leave the building, or do nothing, it’s all irrelevant anyway
SNP/SNP….Shazzam!! and they’re gone (sigh)
Aye, Labour will increase tax take next year – and send the collected revenue straight to the London Treasury because of their total lack of imagination on what to spend the additional monies on.
Just like they did before.
“The Labour party campaigned, lied, threatened, and voted for power to be retained by Westminster in all it’s forms
Then complains to the SNP to do something about all the power retained in Westminster that they voted for “
There’s the profound contradiction, right there. How do you survive as a credible political party after voting against a nation’s domestic interests, and then demand that the administration you denounced protects those self-same domestic interests?
If James Kelly has a pint tae order, he’s got two hale days tae deal wi it.
There’s the profound contradiction, right there.
It’s their pretendy parliament, in their Scotland region.
Yoons know exactly what they’re about. 56 MP’s in Westminster airbrushed away nationally BBC style, Holyrood ignored and ridiculed in Scotland, BBC style.
SNP bad, pretendy parliament, UKOK.
A nice demonstration of how it works locally, neo fascist Voice of the North Press and Journal almost never reports anything Holyrood at all.
Local yoon propaganda for local people, buy the P&J, and ofcourse kiss the royals ring.
The thought of this bunch of clowns ever being in a position to run a bath, never mind a country, is frightening.
Sorry O/T.
Donald Trump loses wind farm legal challenge
I see that flipper Darling is tweeting that this is another victory for Labour.
Let’s not forget the rather misleading ‘qualification’ included in several public descriptions of Mr Kelly’s background: that of being a ‘chartered accountant’.
No he isn’t: to use the title ‘chartered accountant’ you must be a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland, of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales, of Chartered Accountants Ireland, or of an equivalent body in a Commonwealth country. The education, training and examinations which lead to the qualification are rigorous and exacting. What Kelly has is a ‘Certificate in Business Accounting’ from another organisation, the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants which, without disrespect, is a qualification of significantly lower status.
Probably Mr Kelly has not noticed that he is being described as a ‘chartered accountant’… or maybe he really thinks he is one …
Do you think Kelly was deliberately obdurate in his behaviour in order to get himself expelled so he could get his name in the press and show the Presiding officer Tricia Marwick in a bad light?
After all Dugdale in her column in the daily stranger on Monday was having a go at Tricia Marwick’s ruling that parliament’s legislative consent is not required for the Trade union bill.
Will the bold boy lose two days wages? Self inflicted punishment has prevented him from doing the job he is paid to do by the public. Why should he get a get a couple of Xmas shopping holidays at our expense. it’s a scandal and needs an inquiry to enquire into it without a doubt!
O/T – did anyone else see the front page Express minor headline this morning – “Scots schools falling behind rest of the world say experts”. My wife, from Birmingham,who although a committed Independentista, gets the Express because it contains a lot of English news. I read the article which in no way reflected the headline and the reality is that anyone who read today’s article in the National could confirm the OECD report praised Scottish education but pointed out weaknesses in Mathematics. My family read the Express for 70 years in total and it was, way back, considered a “pillar of the Establishment” – nowadays it can only be described as “the shit of the Establishment”. Excuse language please.
@Iain (10.32) –
I’m one of those taken-in by the Wikipedia entry describing Kelly as a CA.
We shouldn’t base anything on appearance, but let’s face it – if Kelly wandered into your accountancy firm mumbling about ‘gettin’ a joab’, would you:
a) Ask him to sit down.
b) Ask him to get out.
c) Contact his family to inform them of his whereabouts.
Red Tories. I would like to evict the bloody lot of them, permanently.
Well, at least we can get rid of quite a few in May 2016. Let’s work hard to reduce Kelly’s 37 Heroes to the Dirty Dozen.
John McTernan Retweeted
BBC Radio 4 Today ?@BBCr4today 2 hrs2 hours ago
After 21 years, James Naughtie just finished his final Today presenting shift. Not a dry eye in the house.
They mean not a dry red or blue tory eye in the house.
Naughty shat really hard on Scottish democracy but at the very least…
I got nothing:-(
oh no, he did ask some Westminster twits the longest questions ever in UKOK BBC propaganda history
eg
Q: But the question is not whether liberal democracy — you talked about this in your lecture on the eve of this program — is a good thing or a bad thing, as most people in this country, as in yours, think it is a desirable state. The question is how you go about bringing it. Now let me remind you and I’m sure you know these words from President Bush himself in the presidential debate just before he was elected October 2000. He said, if we’re an arrogant nation, they will resent us — speaking about the United States. Now the problem is that many people who try to look at this fair-mindedly, look for example at the question of extraordinary rendition, people taken to third countries where there may be practices that amount under international convention as to torture and they know that they go through our airspace. And the government said, well, really request every time — a permission is requested every time this happens. Is a rendition flight only allowed through our airspace if the British Government has been informed? (184 words).
This was a set up stunt from Kelly . A “lets show the people how Labour MSP’s stand up to this SNP government ” kind of ploy . It didn’t work ,just showed them up as the incompetents they are .
This was a set up stunt from Kelly
Well, the mushroom covered cause of neo-liberal Labour needed a futile gesture from somebody in its ranks.
This was a SLab setup to try & get ammo for UK Labour in WM. Had he succeeded Holyrood would have exceeded it’s legal competency as PO stated but would also have enabled UK Labour in WM to trash the devolved Scottish Parliament’s reputation & add credibility in calling it a ‘pretendy parliament’.
SLab weren’t working for themselves-this was a co-ordinated attack by SLab (on behalf of WM)to weaken a competent govt that continually puts SLab to shame day after day.
That was also the reason for Carrells rant on PFI. Everything is aimed at weakening current govt.
They just don’t learn do they
Ian- well put.
When I read the wiki entry on Kelly I misread Career for Carer. Given that performance he might be requiring one.
“Sit doon Kelly you’re an arse!” The PO was spot on!
Does Kelly’s money get cut when he’s suspended? If not why not, he’s only in there for the money.
Let’s not forget that part of the shake up in Trade Union reforms was to make it harder, if not impossible, to get the political levy paid via your wages to the Labour party. Which would seem to be a blatant attempt to not only impose additional costs in gathering funds from those who make the effort to continue to donate to them but would also prompt some to cease.
On one hand it’s a blatant attempt to starve the main opposition party of the government of the UK from the funding they need to continue. In lines with the bid to reduce Short money. So you can see it as a blatant attack on democracy.
On the other hand you might wonder if there’s a bit of self interest in SLabour trying to avoid even a short term fall in it’s own income given there’s an election next year.
Spot on Lollysmum. The whole fiasco was stagemanaged. Not happy with being known as clowns they want to drag Holyrood down to circus level also.
It’s too bad that the Presiding Officer wasn’t in a position to say ”Sit down you troublemaking wee hypocrite. You’ve got some brass neck bleating on about Trade Union policy when you did your utmost to ensure that it wasn’t devolved to Scotland.
Nicola Sturgeon should call for an inquiry to be carried out to ascertain why it wasn’t devolved.
I see that Neil Biddy butt his neb in too. That’s the man that languished back, over a number of years, and did sweet Fanny Adams for the people of Johnstone, Kilbarchan and Lochwinnoch in Renfrewshire. He and his cronies also destroyed Paisley town centre, economically, by implementing some of their bright ideas: Paisley now land of charity and pound shops all thanks to Biddy et al. Now don’t wanting to lay waste on an even greater scale.
Strong the farce is in this one.
Kelly, as much use as Willie Rennie.
The suggestion that Holyrood’s PO should improve her image by throwing in wisecracks & humourous asides would leave her wide open to accusations of flippancy. She doesn’t do flippancy, she’s there to get through the parliaments business full stop, a job she excells at.
james kelly is campaign coordinator for SLab. Isnt that wonderful.
What a shame the PO isn’t allowed to have a John Dick three-pronged extra heavy under her cloak – and be allowed to use it! What a shower…
“What a shame the PO isn’t allowed to have a John Dick three-pronged extra heavy under her cloak – and be allowed to use it! What a shower…”
I felt the weight of one of those bad boys on more than one occasion.#6rapid
@John says: 16 December, 2015 at 11:14 am:
“This was a set up stunt from Kelly . A “lets show the people how Labour MSP’s stand up to this SNP government ” kind of ploy . It didn’t work ,just showed them up as the incompetents they are.”
I can’t see it, John. In the first place Kelly is far too thick to think that out all by himself. In the second place, after many years as a Shop Steward, I recognize the ploy as what we used to call, “The Perry Mason Syndrome”.
The Perry Mason character was a USA lawyer played by actor Raymond Burr. A trademark feature of the stories was Perry in court scenes standing up and yelling at the bench, “I object”.
We adopted the, “Perry Mason Syndrome”, to describe usually extreme left wing Labour Party Shop Stewards who were prone to yell out at the chair, “Point of Order”, which usually turned out not to have anything whatsoever to do with Standing orders but was only some Labourite’s disagreement with what was being debated.
In short they had no idea what a point of order was but thought it made them look smart to act like Perry Mason.
Kelly called a point of order but was unable to say what the order was he wanted to make a point of.
To be fair the Presiding Officer was asking the wrong question. She asked, “What is the point of ORDER”. She should have asked, “What is the point of LABOUR?”, at which point nearly 100 MSP’s would have shouted in Unison, “No Bloody Point”.
Stephen.
I have to say, the PO’s performance came across to me as someone ensuring they were following an established procedure to the letter…….. And in legal terms, to avoid the potential for successful challenge, that was entirely the correct course of action. It may have come across as slightly stilted but it WAS the professional way to manage the situation. It would have been easy to go off-book and in doing so, undermine herself and Holyrood and give ammunition to UK Labour……. She did the right thing……. And shame on Kelly for his childish performance and complete lack of good manners…..
The picture says it all
Kelly’s Zeros
The Labor ministers involved in trying to defend their colleague’s pathetic performance, and in attempting to embarrass the Speaker should hang their heads in shame.
Grouse Beater says:
Anyhow, it’s done and gone. Next time she’ll be better prepared
___________
I think she does a great job as PO and will be sorely missed when she steps down.
As for being unprepared, surely the behavour of that petulent child was unwarranted and extremely uncommon.
As a result, Tricia Marwick was understandably frustrated by this inane lack of respect for her authority, communicated by his refusal to either sit down or proffer an apology.
I just hope that Kezia Dugdale shows some real leadership qualities and disciplines this agitator within an inch of his career.
Wullie Rennie and Murdo Fraser complaining that Swinney has not increased the scottish rate of income tax!
Scumbags the pair of them!
Wonderful, you couldn’t make this stuff up
You know, when I first saw the layout of the chamber it reminded me of nothing so much as a schoolroom. Aye noo ye ken weel whit happens whan ye talk back tae Teacher. What a crowd o ill bred wains the lot o them.
jdman says: 16 December, 2015 at 4:59 pm
“What a shame the PO isn’t allowed to have a John Dick three-pronged extra heavy under her cloak – and be allowed to use it! What a shower…”
I felt the weight of one of those bad boys on more than one occasion.#6rapid
Oh that took me back to standing in the corridor waiting for my punishment, I looked up John Dick to see what became of them, don’t worry they have a good new life as, well I never, the things you learn, often wondered why teachers smiled and sweated when giving the belt.
Perhaps Messrs.Bailie, Fraser and Rennie could be asked to give an eaxmple of any WM government which was daft enough to increase the rates of Income Tax months before a General Election.
How long will we have to wait before one or all of them tell us that it is all part of a cunning plan to win next May and that as soon as a majority SNP Govt. is elected they will produce an emergency budget increasing the Income Tax Rates.
I’ve only just seen this and the reason for that is because my family no longer reside in the glorious UK. We have escaped.
Please, for the love of God, let Scotland escape also. Labour are a fucking shambles and determined to make Scotland the same. A bigger gang of self-serving ingrates it’s difficult to imagine.
Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. Well, I’ve just watched the uncut version for the first time. Previously, I had only seen the three minutes or so involving Mr Kelly. Now, I am no expert in these things, but I did not actually hear a Point of Order from the other three who stood up. So the PO showed remarkable restraint, in my view.
What did any of these dunderheids hope to achieve? Should the PO have just said “That is not a point of order?”
Good to read you here, Skip_NC. Also R-type Grunt (and family).
We WILL prevail!
The only point and order Slab partake in is, the Greggs hot food section.(point-Ten pies)num num (that’s each)
Kelly’s wee rant took me back to 2nd year at school, it was funny then, but when a supposed adult behaves like this “at his work” I would sack the twat.
There is no way I would put up with this crap from an employee, or a boss.
Haven’t seen FMQs yet, should be a laugh, saw a wee bit on reporting misery on the I-player, looks like Dipity is back from the groomers, and making an arse of herself as usual.
What the PO (who can be, and was being, a bit of a nippy sweetie) ultimately explained made perfect sense but she didnt explain it well cos she was so affronted and clearly angry.
Before allowing a Member the up to 3 mins, the PO must decide to allow the Point Of Order to be made and it’s a 5-stage process:
Stage 1: Member indicates wishes to raise a POI
Stage 2: PO calls the Member to state POI
Stage 3: Member quickly summarise the nature of the POI
Stage 4: The PO indicates whether it is or is not to be accepted as a POI
Stage 5: IF the PO permits it, Member has, at the discretion of the PO (not the Member), UP TO 3 mins to express and justify the POI.
SIMOLES!
To allow t
Oops.Sorry.
POO not POI (Kelly was talking POO!!)
Just back to have another wee keek at Kelly, shadow business secretary or something. What a fuckin doughball!