stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


Jackie Baillie is a liar

Posted on December 19, 2012 by

We’ve spent the last 90 minutes watching an incredible video someone linked us to in a reader comment earlier today. It’s a public meeting of the Clydebank Trades Union Council on November 29th, headed by a panel comprising Gil Paterson (SNP MSP for Clydebank and Milngavie), Jackie Baillie (Labour MSP for Dumbarton), chairman Tom Paterson (secretary of Clydebank TUC), Stephen Boyd (assistant secretary of Scottish TUC) and Cathy Leach (Scottish Pensioners’ Forum).

Throughout the meeting the sense of anger and hurt coming from the traditionally-Labour audience and directed mostly at Baillie is overwhelming. Time and again the party’s betrayal of its core audience is bitterly attacked. But an hour and 25 seconds in, there’s a particularly remarkable exchange.

——————————————————————————-

JACKIE BAILLIE (to audience member): Now, Willie, you raised a very specific point about Council Tax. I come from a background in local government, I’ve said that already. I think the difference between Labour’s policy and the SNP’s is that we were suggesting [a freeze] for two years and that it would be fully funded-

VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: Five years!

BAILLIE: What you’ve had, what you’ve had –

VOICE: Five years!

BAILLIE: No, we said in the elec- (more shouting from audience) – trust me, I know my own manifesto (more shouting, “five in West Dunbarton”) well let me finish, Jim, let me, Jim (someone in audience says “It was two years”), Jim, you can shout at me all you like, but actually, Jim, I will be heard, just as I respect your right to be heard, but you don’t need to shout at me to do that.

VOICE: Well why don’t you tell the truth, Jackie?

BAILLIE: I always tell the truth, Jim (some laughter from audience), absolutely always tell the truth.

——————————————————————————-

Jackie Baillie is a member of the Glasgow Labour Party, and is keen to tell the meeting about her “background in local government”. The Glasgow Labour manifesto for the 2012 council elections can be found here. It’s not difficult to locate the pledge about freezing council tax – it’s the very first item on the party’s list of 100 promises.

And the local Lennox Herald newspaper had made clear just the previous month that the Labour-controlled council in West Dunbartonshire planned a five-year freeze:

Jackie Baillie says she knows her own manifesto, that people should trust her, and that she “absolutely always” tells the truth. She also says that Labour campaigned to freeze council tax for two years, not five. Is she telling the truth? You be the judge.

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    93 to “Jackie Baillie is a liar”

    1. Stevie Cosmic says:

      What angers me is that time and time again the MSM allows the likes of Baillie, a serial offender, to get away with barefaced lies like this, both at a local level as we see here, and at Holyrood.
       
      This has to stop. With sales of printed press in terminal decline, there will be a tipping point where these papers are simply unsaveable – they are alienating everyone, on both sides of the debate with this abhorrent two bob journalism.

      Obviously, the same criticism can be levelled at our broadcasters…

    2. Bill C says:

      Jackie, Jackie, check your pants, I smell burning!

    3. Tris says:

      Errrrmmmm …. Nope. She’s a liar.

    4. Peter A Bell says:

      I hear Jackie Baillie is to be banned from public buildings due to pants fire risk!

    5. Doug Daniel says:

      I get the feeling there’s a common factor amongst the subjects of your “X is a liar” articles Stu, but I can’t quite put my finger on it…

      The laughter in the audience when she insists she always tells the truth pretty much speaks for itself.

      In fairness to Jackie, isn’t Dumbarton one of those well-to-do places – like Bearsden, Renfrew and Milngavie – that is in a permanent state of denial that it’s in Glasgow? (Although the postcode kind of gives the game away…)

    6. Tris says:

      But… to be fair she is probably talking about the Scottish Parliament manifesto of 2011, as opposed to the Glasgow Council manifesto of 2012. Iain Gray was proposing a freeze for two years (hidden on page 59 of the manifesto).

      She is still, as Stevie Cosmic says, a serial liar. 

    7. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Jackie Baillie, 1h 28m 20s:

      “And I say to the gentleman beside you who frankly I understand is a member of the SNP, perhaps he should realise that his own policy is that when the SNP, who are committed to the removal of Trident, do remove it, they will put all – all – of the money into defence. Not one penny for hospitals, or schools, or anything like that. So let’s have some honesty about that debate.”

      Where can I find this policy detailed by the SNP, please?

    8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “But… to be fair she is probably talking about the Scottish Parliament manifesto of 2011, as opposed to the Glasgow Council manifesto of 2012.”

      I think it’s wholly reasonable – especially in context – to assume that a Labour manifesto in 2012 supercedes one from 2011.

    9. Doug Daniel says:

      Even ignoring the fact she’s telling a bare-faced lie there, I love the way she speaks about the SNP being “committed to the removal of Trident” like it’s a bad thing.

      The transformation into the New Nasty Party truly is complete. 

    10. Davy says:

      Aah come on folks lets be fair, Jackie Ballie may be a liar but honestly what else does she and the rest of labours so-called top hierarchy in Scotland have to offer ???
      Nothing but the usual negative tripe and disaster stories.

    11. DougtheDug says:

      The Scottish Labour Party 2011 Manifesto does actually say 2 years. It just depends on which manifesto she was quoting. Glasgow’s or Scotland’s.
       
      http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/uploads/84613091-e7ae-5ce4-7dff-39f1789cf681.pdf
       
      However if she was quoting the Scottish 2011 Manifesto she was still lying because it says:
       
      “Scottish Labour will freeze the council tax for the next two years, ensuring that the freeze is sustainably funded.”

       
      Not fully funded as she says in the meeting. The devil is always in the detail.

    12. Macart says:

      Nope, having looked at it from every angle, I think we can say with a fair degree of certainty…………. THAT’S A WHOPPER.

    13. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The leader of Labour-controlled West Dunbartonshire Council – the Council within Shadow Health Spokesperson Jackie Baillie’s constituency, said “we have no plans to raise council tax over the next five years. I accept the right of my leader of the Labour Party to make these comments but we’ve made plans.””

      http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/5980-labour-councils-issue-council-tax-snub-to-leader-lamont

      That piece is dated five days AFTER the meeting Baillie spoke at.

    14. Marcia says:

      Gil Paterson’s last words very good indeed. Pity the meeting ended at that point.

    15. Luigi says:

      I think there is more chance of Hell freezing over than there is of a future Labour government freezing council tax.

    16. Munguin says:

      Do we know what West Dunbartonshire Labour’s local manifesto says with regards to the council tax freeze?
       
      I don’t think that a 2012 manifesto for Glasgow trumps a national 2011 manifesto outside of Glasgow. And I think that when Ms Baillie says she knows her manifesto I assume she is either referring to her national 2011, one or her local 2012 one and not the 2012 one that pertains to a neighbouring local authority. I’m afraid I can’t find an online copy of the local manifesto only references to it.

    17. McHaggis says:

      You know, I sometimes wish I hadn’t taken quite so short a time to pull this graph together… maybe should have added 3D, shading and a couple of fountain fills for impact.

      Perhaps the actual figures say enough though –

      https://twitter.com/i/#!/McHaggis69/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FR0bvHphW  

    18. McHaggis says:

      Munguin I think you are being far too generous in your interpretation… Even those (formerly?) staunch labour supporters in the audience were shouting ‘5’ at her…

      they know as well as anyone what the most recent commitment was. 

    19. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Do we know what West Dunbartonshire Labour’s local manifesto says with regards to the council tax freeze?”

      There’s no such thing, certainly not that I can find. By all means prove me wrong:

      http://www.westdunbartonshirelabour.org.uk/

    20. mrbfaethedee says:

      During the exchange someone from the crowd even calls out “… five in West Dunbarton…” at 1.00:48

    21. Yesitis says:

      What do we do with these despicable, lying Labour types when Scotland votes Yes? They don`t serve any purpose, nor can they can`t be trusted; they are useless and extraneous to an independent Scotland.
      Maybe a future Scottish government could plan a new town on Gruinard Island, and all those Labour cooncil types can lie away to their heart`s content to their very own One Nation island town populated with BBC Reporting Scotland/Newsnight/STV/Scotsman/Herald/Daily Record types. 
      Never mind the anthrax…here`s the bollocks!
       

    22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “During the exchange someone from the crowd even calls out “… five in West Dunbarton…” at 1.00:48”

      So they do. I haven’t yet been able to definitively figure out how many regional manifestos Labour put out in 2012 – so far I’ve identified Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Highlands. Of those, it seems safe to say the one that covered West Dunbartonshire would be Glasgow. The Edinburgh one doesn’t mention council tax at all, I haven’t found the text of the others. Any more?

    23. AndrewFraeGovan says:

      Johann Lamont was very recently on the panel at a “bedroom tax” meeting in the Pearce Institute, Govan. While I wasn’t able to attend myself, I hear she received a rather hostile reception.

    24. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Ah, I’ve found an Argyll & Bute Labour manifesto now, which would be the closest competitor:

      http://forargyll.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/04/Argyll-and-Bute-Labour-Party-Manifesto-2012final-1.pdf

      No mention of council tax at all again, so no way it could be used to justify a claim of a two-year freeze rather than a five-year one. Indeed, so far the ONLY Labour 2012 manifesto to mention council tax policy is the Glasgow one.

    25. McHaggis says:

      You do all appreciate that despite the content of this video, I would bet my mortgage every single one of those contributors to the debate voted Labour at the last local and general as well as Scottish elections… and will continue to do so going forward.

    26. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      McHaggis: clearly not ALL of them…

      http://www.tallyroom.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/scotland2011.jpg

    27. Turnip_Ghost says:

      I do hold out hope that they’ve seen the light though ;-D

    28. Doug Daniel says:

      She can’t be referring to the 2011 manifesto anyway, because that would go against the Year Zero approach that political parties take when they lose an election and elect a new leader. Most of their current Thatcherisation goes completely against things they put in the 2011 manifesto, and their only response to that is “you can’t hold us to pledges made under a different leader.” Just like Ed Miliband tries to make out we shouldn’t hold him to things from the 2010 manifesto (despite QUITE LITERALLY writing it).

    29. mrbfaethedee says:

      It’s all par for the course anyway, the Labour Party say one thing, Scottish Labour can say other things if they are pressed, and local Labour can say other things if they need to…
      As long as they say the right things in the right context, they think they look like the right party to the right people at the right time.
      And when the shit comes home to roost, they can take their pick of any of the positions , as (in)appropriate in response to any criticism.

    30. McHaggis says:

      Is there any expectation that this video will be picked up anywhere in the MSM?

      Lets face it, if this were SNP the TV and papers would be all over it like a rash and dining out on it for weeks.

      I tweeted it to both Newsnicht and TheHerald’s new ‘political diary’.
          

    31. Craig P says:

      quoting Doug Daniel:
      isn’t Dumbarton one of those well-to-do places – like Bearsden, Renfrew and Milngavie – that is in a permanent state of denial that it’s in Glasgow?

       I’m guessing you’ve never been to Dumbarton? 😆

    32. Arbroath1320 says:

      Can I be the first on here to send my congratulations to Jackie Baillie?
       
      No seriously I want to do this. She MUST be congratulated on being the figure who launched the theme song for Labour in Scotland 2013! 😀
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y18z-18tJw

    33. Juteman says:

      Even more lies over on Openunionism. I can’t be bothered commenting on there anymore, as it’s like talking to a brick wall.
      http://www.openunionism.com/nine-lies-it-will-be-black-coal-for-the-snp-this-christmas/

    34. Pa Broon says:

      Politicians fibbing doesn’t really bother me, its that they try to pull the wool over our eyes and even when they’ve been proven wrong (in an easily demonstrable fashion) they haven’t got the wit to withdraw what they’ve said, they think that by sheer force of character and no small amount of repetition they can make what they’ve said stick.

      Baillie is one of the worst for it, in interviews she drones on and on attempting to defeat the truth of things by boring it out of existence.

      I bet she’s never answered a question in a straightforward manner in her puff.

      “Would yae like salt & sauce with your chips?”
      “Well, let me just say this, its not whether I’d like salt or sauce, its about whether Scotland can afford to offer such benefits on a universal bas-”
      “Ah wiz just askin’ if ye wanted salt and-”
      “No, this is an important point and I must make it – salt & sauce are expensive condiments and it simply isn’t fair that the rich benefit from this kind of giveaway while the poor struggle-”
      “Listen hen dae you want tae eat these fuckin’ chips or wear them?!?”

      (Giving away my East Coast credentials…)

      😉

    35. Aucheorn says:

      Pa Boon
      Absolutely Classic.

    36. Matt says:

      “You do all appreciate that despite the content of this video, I would bet my mortgage every single one of those contributors to the debate voted Labour at the last local and general as well as Scottish elections… and will continue to do so going forward.”

      I watched the first half hour of it last night, and at some point someone said something along the lines of “the only way…. is to vote YES in 2014!” and got a lot of applause at that point.

    37. Juteman says:

      I don’t think Baillie would argue over food Pa.

    38. McHaggis says:

      “I watched the first half hour of it last night, and at some point someone said something along the lines of “the only way…. is to vote YES in 2014!” and got a lot of applause at that point.”

      2014 isn’t a vote for any party.      

    39. Macart says:

      Cracker Pa. 😀

    40. velofello says:

      I found the video uncomfortable viewing, a body of people angry, frustrated, and a little afraid of what the future holds for them. They do have a choice, vote SNP or Labour for Independence. As they were prepared to attend that meeting and express their dissatisfactions then surely they are also prepared to think beyond a sentimental attachment to a Labour party that has long since disposed of its core values.
      Jackie Baillie a liar? Mebbe aye, mebbe naw. For sure she is a chancer. 

    41. Munguin says:

      I can’t find a local manifesto for West Dunbartonshire either, but I did find a reference to it in this W/D Labour group budget proposals from January 2012 which refers to “Job creation, Education, Road repairs, and Community Investment will be the backbone of our local manifesto. These are the issues we will fight the election on.”

      http://www.westdunbartonshirelabour.org.uk/2012/01/west-dunbartonshire-labour-group-budget-proposals-201213/

      That does not mean it exists of course. 

    42. Stui says:

      Just before the 2 years/5 years thing there is Jackie Baillie saying smething about taxation, you cant have scandanavian level taxation on the basis of US level taxes, then a short while later talks about corporation tax and a race to the bottom. I think this is a confusion on the part of the labour party, I understand the snp policy is to reduce corporation tax, but says nothing about income tax? can anyone clarify this? How it works here in Switzerland is that corporation tax is low but income tax is high, means boost for business, good services also that people who can afford to pay do pay. I understand this as the “scandanavian model”. Surely the labour party are also lying on this, or are they just ignorant? Ive heard it from labour party people several times. 

    43. Hamish Henderson says:

      I think you are all being unfair to the poor wummin.
      After all it is the season of good cheer and pantomime. All together now;
      “Oh no I didn’t “– ” OHHH, YES YOU DID!”

    44. Munguin says:

      Dundee Labour had a local manifesto but it made no reference to the council tax freeze.

    45. muttley79 says:

      Johann Lamont was very recently on the panel at a “bedroom tax” meeting in the Pearce Institute, Govan. While I wasn’t able to attend myself, I hear she received a rather hostile reception.


      @AndrewFraeGovan


      Did she blame Salmond and the SNP?…

    46. AndrewFraeGovan says:

      @muttley79
      Probably, but I doubt anyone would have heard her. Apparently there was much heckling, with shouts like “what’s that tory doing up on there” and similar. Some were standing with their backs to her when she did get to speak! Sounds like a right rammy. Wish I’d been there lol 😀

    47. DougtheDug says:

      I’ve searched for a West Dunbartonshire Labour manifesto with no luck. If there’s one out there then it’s not on the net.
       
      However I did find a scan of the Lennox Herald story about  West Dunbartonshire Labour Council’s five year council tax freeze pledge. It’s a tweet from Kevin Pringle dated 03/10/2012
       
      https://twitter.com/KevinJPringle/status/253504692838096898

    48. muttley79 says:

      @AndrewFraeGovan
      Probably, but I doubt anyone would have heard her. Apparently there was much heckling, with shouts like “what’s that tory doing up on there” and similar. Some were standing with their backs to her when she did get to speak! Sounds like a right rammy. Wish I’d been there lol
       
      Superb!  😀
       

    49. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “However I did find a scan of the Lennox Herald story about West Dunbartonshire Labour Council’s five year council tax freeze pledge. It’s a tweet from Kevin Pringle dated 03/10/2012”

      The key phrase there is “toeing the party line”. That seems to make it pretty clear that “the party line” was a five-year freeze.

    50. Celyn says:

      Heheh, sounds like an interesting meeting.  A robust exchange of views, sort of thing.   🙂

      I’d like to thank you for including a text version of the relevant bit, as I find it hard to hear things clearly a lot of the time, and therefore often simply miss out or don’t bother to click on video links.   I clicked keenly on this one before I even noticed you had written it out.  Oooh, it did seem a wee bit heated.:) 

    51. dadsarmy says:

      This “race to the bottom” corporation tax nonsense. I’ve seen it crop up in Guardian and others, and because it’s in other contexts I don’t think I’ve once seen a rebuttal of it. So here goes:

      The Republic of Ireland with a population of 4.5 million has had lower rates of corporation tax for years, but yet the UK with a population of 62.5 million has NOT cut its coporation tax to compete against the ROI in a “race to the bottom”.

      The population of Scotland is 5.4 million, the population of the rUK will be 57 million. Will the rUK compete on corporation tax in a “race to the bottom” with Scotland? I think not.

    52. Tamson says:

      “You do all appreciate that despite the content of this video, I would bet my mortgage every single one of those contributors to the debate voted Labour at the last local and general as well as Scottish elections… and will continue to do so going forward.”

      McHaggis, this is quite true for party-based elections, but might not hold so well for the referendum: I suspect the Bitter Together campaign are crapping themselves about that. After all, the likes of Keir Hardie would have voted Yes.

      The emotional – even sentimental – ties that make people vote Labour against all the rational evidence are ferociously strong. For Darling et al to tap into that, they would have to strongly tie the Labour brand to the No campaign, something they have clearly been reluctant to do so far.

    53. AndrewFraeGovan says:

      @Tamson

      Kier Hardie would vote YES!

      John MacLean would vote YES!

      Good slogans in Labour areas? 

    54. McHaggis says:

      Tamson – 100% agree

      My point is, they will vote Labour till they die, but I just hope they see that the only way to get ‘their’ party back and allow them to continue voting for Labour with a clear(er) conscience  is to vote Yes in 2014. They may be beginning to see the light that 2014 is NOT a vote for any party at all.

      If that happens and Labour voters reach a tipping point towards the Yes campaign, we will win the referendum by a landslide.

      In the event of a ‘No’ vote, however, these people will *still* vote for Labour in any future elections.     

    55. Rabb says:

      As a historic Labour voter I switched to SNP for the last Scottish parliament election based on the suicidal path I found the Labour party (not just Scottish Labour) on moving to the right.
      I am not a radical leftie by a long stretch of the imagination but I do hold dear the socialist principles instilled in me by my father who was a steel worker in Lanarkshire.

      I will be voting Yes in 2014 in the hope that the Labour party can refind their roots in an independent Scotland, however, my warning to Lamont and the rest is that if you don’t get your act together I will remain an SNP voter for the forseeable future.

      So come on Scottish Labour, let’s back Independence and take control back from the tory wannabes in Westminster!!   

    56. Name (required) says:

      the headline itself is a beautifully crafted and balanced item, with subtle nuances that defy description.
       
      or words to that effect
       
       
       
       

    57. Stevie says:

      The heartening attacks on Labourite Baillie and the party that was once Labour and is now a post-Blairite Tory gimp that has been tied and punished into its current pliable right-wing sheep.

      One hopes the Labour people will vote YES and not just spout discontent and anger.  

    58. Bill C says:

      @Rabb – Well said, I don’t think you are alone, I am pretty sure there are tens of thousands of ex Labour supporters who are truly sickened by Labour’s lurch to the right and will now vote YES. An independent Scotland offers a fresh start for all Scots.

    59. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      Talking about lying bampots, I notice that Tony from planet Blair is to get involved in the NO campaign.  That’s the definition of desperation.

      I remember watching him being ineterviewed by David Frost. Frost’s first question was a cracker. “Do you pray with George Bush”?  In other words I think you’re feckin barkin’.
      Blair cracked up-he couldn’t handle it.

      According to Blair there’s two ways. The Blair way and the wrong way.  I’m convinced he’ll completely lose the plot-should be fun. If someone introduced him to Jackie Baillie he’ll be convined he’s found a WMD. 

         

    60. dadsarmy says:

      I have to say I’ve got every respect for SNP members who get into an online “debate” where the opposing posters start or continue slagging off the SNP, usually because they’re “losing” the argument. I guess you feel you need to defend your party, and this makes it difficult to stick to the point – and at times to “win” the argument.

      I don’t have this problem, and it makes my life much much easier. All I need to say about any SNP slagging is: “I am not, never have been and probably never will be a member of any political party.”, and it’s game over for my opponent.

      So – it takes all sorts to win the fight, each according to their advantage and ability 🙂

    61. jake says:

      Doug Daniel asks :
      isn’t Dumbarton one of those well-to-do places – like Bearsden, Renfrew and Milngavie – that is in a permanent state of denial that it’s in Glasgow?

      Craig P says:
      I’m guessing you’ve never been to Dumbarton?

      Jake says:
      Dunbarton too is on the outer rim territories and not that dissimilar to Tatoonine

    62. Ron says:

      dadsarmy says;

       I don’t have this problem, and it makes my life much much easier. All I need to say about any SNP slagging is: “I am not, never have been and probably never will be a member of any political party.”, and it’s game over for my opponent.

      Which is why Alistair Darling is terrified of debating with Blair Jenkins. 

    63. dadsarmy says:

      Well, I spoke too soon about “game over”. Here’s the bit of the reply:

      ” Let us say, you are not a Nationalist and for sure I am not a Unionist. I dislike polarised terms.”

      Yes, he made an assumption about me, and me about him. He doesn’t like the SNP – and I’ve spoken to many (in “real” life) whose reason for voting NO will be the SNP. If it wasn’t for the SNP, many of them have said they want Independence for Scotland.

      How to solve that problem, that’s the real problem. If we can, I think YES is a shoo-in, a 74.6% or more, shoo-in.

    64. John Jamieson says:

      Golly.  I listened to this in its entirety, albeit with a break of a couple of hours.

      I actually thought the stushie over the council tax freeze was relatively unimportant compared to the genuine anger concerning the inhumanity of the Atos process as described by people in the audience.  Ms Baillie failed to answer the charge that this process had been initiated by her own party while in government at Westminster.

      What I find interesting from this is that people associated with the trades union movement who would normally be expected to fall into line behind the Labour Party are not allowing themselves to be deflected by the standard Labour Anti-Tory rhetoric as they were in the 1990s but are instead directing their anger equally at the Tories and at the Blairite Labour Party that created the environment that made the Tories re-electable.

      The people the Labour Party have to fear most in the 2014 referendum are the former Labour voters who voted in 1997 to keep the Tories out but saw their ideals destroyed by Blair and Brown, who voted in 2010 to keep the Tories out and saw that their votes didn’t really count and who now recognise that the Labour Party are struggling to remain relevant to Scotland.

    65. Bill C says:

      Rev – Sorry to go o/t, there is a report out today (which the Herald is carrying) by the CPPR which basically says that we should not rely on oil in the future. It is the usual unionist scaremongering, however the interesting thing is the CPPR is chock full of economists with Labour Party connections. I have penned the following to the Herlad’s blog but I do not expect them to publish it.

      I have to say, living in Aberdeenshire and watching oil companies building offices in and around the city of Aberdeen like klondykers erecting tents in a gold mining camp, (especially in Westhill) I was rather surprised by this report. Have the oil companies got it wrong? Does a think tank from Glasgow University really know more than multinational companies who never spend a penny unles there is profit to be made?
      Then my own penny dropped. It is a report from the CPPR, the grand sounding, The Centre for Public Policy for Regions, which of course has John McLaren, Jo Armstrong and Brian Ashcroft as members.
      For those not in the know let me elaborate.  John McLaren is an economist with Labour Party connections: Mr. McLaren was a researcher for Labour, a special adviser to Donald Dewar and Henry McLeish, a member of the Labour Party between 200-2005 and was hired by Labour on a consultancy basis in the run up to the 2007 elections.  Jo Armstrong is an economist who was a Policy Adviser to Jack McConnell between 2001-2003,  Ms Armstrong is believed to be a proponent of Public Private Partnerships (PPP’s) despite evidence that they are a bad deal for the people of Scotland. Many believe that Ms Armstrong has strong ideological views in favour of liberalising public services. She has advocated the privatisation of Scottish Water.  Brian Ashcroft is the husband of ex-Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander.
      Now there is absolutely nothing wrong in the above activities of these individuals, but before passing judgement on this report, the people of Scotland are entitled to know the background of some of the people who produced the report.
      This report contradicts much of the real and recent evidence concerning oil production in the North Sea, it is very important when considering it, to also consider the political and ideological backgrounds of those who produced it. It is time for academic transparency on the backgrounds of those who publish reports that may have a significant influence on Scotland’s constitutional future. 

      Thought the above might be useful, perhaps a piece by your goodself?   

    66. Macart says:

      Well dads for what its worth here’s my solution.

      The YES campaign, not the SNP must receive all of our support. Regardless of our respective political backgrounds, if you feel that Scotland should be making decisions on its own problems, its own resource, its own people and its own future then you must vote YES in 2014. For any TV or newspaper interview based on the question of Scottish independence then the SNP should direct (politely) the media types right to the front door of Blair Jenkins for the next two years. Not only should the SNP take a back seat now, but be very visibly seen to do so. They must make it plain as plain can be that this is the people’s referendum not a party political election campaign. That the SG is handing the most important constitutional decision in 300 years over to them. This act of political selflessness will pay dividends. If they are seen to show and prove their trust in the Scots electorate then this trust will be rewarded. The Westminster parties have never shown such trust in the electorate. They have never handed such a responsibility over a nations future to us common plebs.

      As we are all pretty much aware the average general election has never really changed a damn thing in the hallowed chambers. Its slight of hand, an illusion ‘don’t look over hear, look over there’. This time its different and it literally scares the shit out of them. They are not in control of this one, the electorate is and the first party to make this plain as day to the people of Scotland will be the beneficiaries after the referendum. I’m not saying that the SNP should suddenly disappear off the radar, I’m all for them loudly supporting the campaign and having the odd snapshot taken with Blair and Dennis. But its far more vitally important for them to be seen acting like a government in waiting. Providing tight, prudent governance, getting that foreign investment in the front door, be seen in the company of the great and the good of other nations, and always but always presenting Scotland in a positive light.

      Anyhoo that’s my tuppenceworth. 🙂 

    67. Bill C says:

      Wonders, indeed, will never cease. The Herald actually published my ramblings!

    68. Juteman says:

      ‘The Peoples Referendum’. I like that.

    69. Training Day says:

      @Bill C

      ..and Gardham’s Herald headlined the CPPR report as ‘poll blow for nationalists’.  Surprisingly, it turned out there was no ‘poll’ – they were referring for some strange reason to the referendum as the ‘poll’ (surely not to mislead casual observers into thinking a poll had been conducted which showed the SNP in a bad light?).  And there was no empirical ‘blow’ either, save for the imagined one in the anguished consciousness of Gardham.

      However, the BBC duly ran with the story.  Here’s a summary of this morning’s GMS:

      Interveiwer: The oil’s going to run out, like, quick smart, isn’t it?
      Labour’s resident Jeremiah at the BBC John McLaren (for it is he): Aye.
      Interviewer: ..and it’s not really worth much anyway so it isn’t, is it?
      McLaren:  Naw.

      This transcription business is easier than you think 😉

    70. Macart says:

      Its just what it says on the tin Juteman.

      Our decision. 🙂

    71. Celyn says:

      Regarding “John Jamieson says:
      20 December, 2012 at 1:21 am

      Aha!  I really must try to listen to the ATOS bit – there is just not enough attention paid to, or rage about, ATOS.

      Thanks!

    72. Pa Broon says:

      Scotland, the only country with significant oil reserves that wasn’t enriched by them. One wonders why?

      On the SNP and Yes Scotland. I’ve changed my standing order donation thingy to Yes Scotland, I did give to the SNP in the run up to the last Scottish Election but I feel the money is better spent with Yes.*

      I mean, its not on a par with the Weir’s donation to the SNP, but its up there for sure… No really, it is…

      (*8orry Alex.)

      😉

    73. ScottyC1314 says:

      There is loads of positives from an independence perspective from this video, so thanks to those who have brought it to our attention. A couple of quick points:

      1. If we ever needed evidence that the BBC QT / Big Debate audiences were hand picked with clapping seals then this is it. Labour are evidently in serious trouble in their heartlands and the YES campaign should be seeking to exploit this by putting resource into the Labour for Independence campaign in Labour’s traditional heartlands.

      2. Trident is a massive issue (as if we did not know already) and more needs to be done to spell out exactly what Scotland’s share on the Trident bill WILL be spent on. Why not now make a big commitment to build x number of social housing or x number of schools, or what about free child care etc etc. There could be big wins in this for every area of our society. It’s a massive opportunity and the claims made by Baillie and her ilk that all the money saved would go on defence need to be sternly refuted. The SNP need to step up their game in this regard. Waiting until the end of 2013 for the Indy blue print is an error as there are clearly opportunities presenting themselves just now that need to be exploited.

    74. Ronald Henderson says:

      @Pa Broon
      Same here Pa. Only difference is I haven’t made out a standing order/direct debit but send an amount each month to Yes Scotland that I feel I can afford.
      eg. November-£30. December-£40. I will continue to do this each month for the next two years. Even if I send them forty pounds each month it only amounts to £480 per year. That’s less than I put in my car in petrol
       
      It’s only for two years. I would sure hate to lose this referendum because the Yes Campaign didn’t have enough money and the unionists outspent us.

    75. Finlay says:

      @Macart Please for the love of god send what you have just said to someone in the SNP. I’m sure they will understand the significance.

    76. scottish_skier says:

      I’m really clueless why the pro-union side keep trying to use economic scare stories as a case against independence, e.g. them at it with the ‘worthless’ oil again.

      Scots were sold on economic viability long ago; polls always show a solid majority think Scotland will be at least the same or better off under independence.

      Anyone heard of that Devo Max thingy, which commonly shows up to 70% support. It involves Scotland raising and spending all its own taxes. Erm, hello? Knock knock, anyone there?

      Thought not. 

      Brown stuff is really going to hit the fan next year when the UK’s credit rating is downgraded. Can the UK ‘survive alone’?

    77. Macart says:

      @Finlay

      Appreciated Finlay. I have a wee rant every now and again, but generally much brighter folks on here than me say all that needs saying anyhoo.

      Still if the SNP don’t have some admin bod scanning these pages then, they’re missing a trick. I’m also fairly certain that the same ideas must surely have occurred to them. 🙂

    78. David McCann says:

      Yes. The bold Jackie has form. At the end of 2011 she also accused the SNP administration’s health record thus;
      Being the  superbug capital of Europe is an accolade no country wants” when in actual fact the statistics were collected during – you’ve guessed it, the previous Lab/Lib! Term in office! Well done for reminding us that under Labour, Scotland was indeed Superbug Capital of Europe.  That’s political acumen at its best.
      Still, its nice to see she was supporting the SNP on that occasion!

    79. Celyn says:

      Re.    AndrewFraeGovan says:
      19 December, 2012 at 8:20 pm

      @Tamson
      Kier Hardie would vote YES!
      John MacLean would vote YES!
      Good slogans in Labour areas? 

      Now THAT would make a wonderful T-shirt or poster!  

      Of course, the ‘vote for a monkey with a red rosette’ types probably haven’t even heard of Hardie or McLean.  

    80. dadsarmy says:

      Yes Macart, I agree, the SNP have to let go. It’ll be very hard for them. Kind of like parents waving off the kids to university, college or the first job. Or seeing them drive off on their own, after passing the test. You feel you want to do it for them, and for many things feel you can do it better for them, but you know you have to let go.

      In this case of course the kid is the “peoples referendum”, but also the YES campaign as mentor, teacher, tutor, I’m running out of metaphors.

      And yes, I do hope a couple of SNP researchers scour the ‘net.

    81. Aucheorn says:

      Macart
      I think what you said is so important that with your permission I’ll use on our site and spread it about to other admins of Indy sites.

    82. deewal says:

      Celyn says
       Aha! I really must try to listen to the ATOS bit – there is just not enough attention paid to, or rage about, ATOS.
      I have been saying that for a couple of months. It’s a vote loser for the SNP and soon Labour are going to make it a very big issue as IDS new cuts and sanctions hit the poorest.
      No use pretending it will go away. 

        

    83. Macart says:

      @Aucheorn

      Thanks and fire away Aucheorn.

      Cheers dads, more than anything else I firmly believe that party politics should be left firmly on the back burner where the independence campaign is concerned. 

    84. domhnall dods says:

      “we often have robust debates but we never end up insulting one another” – good advice Jackie, maybe you should practice what you preach (oh and tell your “leader”)

    85. DMyers says:

      Actually, Gil Paterson delivers the killer blow in the closing sentence of his remarks, where he quotes Baillie on prescription charges.

    86. The Ferg says:

      The Council tax debate is important but just one issue in the context of a raange of serious issues raised about Labour, ATOS, Poverty, Trident and the distance from the beliefs of Socialism and the  Scottish working class.  As a Trade unionist, socialist and former Labour Party member and long term supporter was horrified at Jackie’s response  it was was disgraceful and “retail” politics now means it gives Labour the OK to cut and ignore the wishes of working people. If Labour disappear its because they still believe they can take Scottish voters for granted

    87. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “‘Aha! I really must try to listen to the ATOS bit – there is just not enough attention paid to, or rage about, ATOS.
      I have been saying that for a couple of months. It’s a vote loser for the SNP and soon Labour are going to make it a very big issue as IDS new cuts and sanctions hit the poorest.
      No use pretending it will go away.”

      Eh? Labour are going to have a really hard time making an issue of Atos, given that it was Labour who brought them in and commissioned the Work Capability Assessments in the first place, with exactly the same purpose they have now – kicking people off incapacity benefits and onto cheaper out-of-work benefits, from which they can also be forced onto workfare. It may well be that Scottish Labour are stupid and hypocritical enough to TRY it anyway, but they’ll just be shooting themselves in the feet.

    88. Jonathan Marshall says:

      What a tragic video… digusting in this day and age the depth of poverty in such a resource rich country… meanwhile the scare stories from those with vested interest continues daily with no real rebuttal in the MSM. I think the gentlemen who said we must not act like sheep is right. Jackie Bailie and her ilk especially the liebour pimpernel Jim Murphy have convinced me that we ought to do away with career politicians… 2 terms in office maximum and thats only if you proved a success in your first term, after that return to work in the real world… if you have further to offer politically there are plenty of think tanks to join. I think that the only way the people will get back a Labour party is for individuals to stand against every labour MSP and MP on the promise that they will stand down after 1 term… I’ll stand…anyone else interested?

    89. deewal says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says: “Eh? Labour are going to have a really hard time making an issue of Atos, given that it was Labour who brought them in and commissioned the Work Capability Assessments in the first place, with exactly the same purpose they have now – kicking people off incapacity benefits and onto cheaper out-of-work benefits, from which they can also be forced onto workfare. It may well be that Scottish Labour are stupid and hypocritical enough to TRY it anyway, but they’ll just be shooting themselves in the feet.”

      I was refering to Baillie’s comment’s on Atos from 1:03:46 where she points out that Labour hired Atos etc.      The Tory’s continued it even more fervently and the SNP government appear to agree with the Tory’s because they are endorsing Atos by employing them to sponsor the Commomwealth Games in 2014. My point is that if the SNP talk about social justice they should have nothing to do with Atos and take away their sponsorship.
      There should be no place for “selections” and forcing disabled people into non existent “work” in a civilised society.
      Photographs of Nicola Sturgeon like this one are going to bite the SNP in the arse. 
      http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/sponsors/1010873-atos-set-to-be-target-of-new-protests-over-sponsorship-of-glasgow-2014 
      The BBC will be in a bit of a bind reporting this as Atos are their IT partner’s bút  the Herald and the Scotsman etc will have a wonderful time. 
      There are many thousands of unemployed people in Scotland who will see (do see) this as a tacit approval of this Toxic company who’s CEO received almost £2 million bonus for his work this year.
      There are also many, many  thousands of people who still think this Referendum is a Referendum for the SNP. Of course they dont read this blog or others like it. They get their info from the MSM.
      Try going out onto the street and asking people to vote YES. The most positive answer i have had is “Away ‘an shite”.  This is because most of them are unemployed and a lot of them are due to be assessed by Atos.

    90. Caadfael says:

      She’s certainly a candidate for asbestos loo-roll!

    91. Spansco says:

      Bailie needs to be re minded that if you are going to be a liar, you need to have a good memory. Not a convenient one. All Labour politicians hope the Scottish public have poor memories and that is what their survival depends on.

    92. Aurilieus says:

      Jackie Baillie lies, you say? Like night follows day!



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