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Wings Over Scotland

In Russia, fear projects YOU

Posted on January 12, 2014 by

Hello again! We apologise for the recent 19-hour interruption to normal Wings Over Scotland service, which was almost certainly the result of a cyber-attack by the KGB.


Not really, of course. A combination of a badly-coded plugin, human error and the global curse of spam comments is most likely what actually took us offline for most of yesterday and this morning. But in the light of today’s Sunday Herald front-page scoop, it’s hard to be absolutely sure.

Under the attention grabbing headline “Cameron’s plea to Putin: help me stop Salmond”, news of the story set social media aflame last night under the hashtag #indyrefski (which we modestly admit being the inventors of), even before the details were revealed. The crucial passage was this one:

“The Tass report, by one of the agency’s correspondents, hit the Russian language news wires on Hogmanay.

Its opening paragraph reads: ‘Great Britain is extremely interested in the support of Russia, as holder of the G8 presidency, in two vital areas in 2014: the Afghan pull-out and the Scottish independence referendum.’

In the traditional style of a Russian news wire report, this assertion was then attributed to a ‘representative’ in the Prime Minister’s office who was speaking anonymously. The journalist then added a direct quote from the unnamed source talking of ‘two main issues whose resolution requires international formats, albeit of different modalities’.

The Cameron Government insider then, according to the report, added: ‘Those are the withdrawal of combat units from Afghanistan by the end of the 2014 and September’s referendum on Scottish independence. 

We believe that the G8 could become one of the main political platforms where London will find backing.’

The journalist added that although the referendum might ‘look like a UK domestic matter’, it had, according to his UK Government source, the potential to ‘send shockwaves across the whole of Europe’.”

So, no big deal, then. The Prime Minister who refuses to debate independence with Alex Salmond because it’s a matter for Scots alone in fact wants to pressgang all of the world’s most powerful nations – not just Vladimir Putin’s oppressive Russia – into Project Fear. And while the Herald deserves much kudos for its quarrying in the Russian newswires, it turns out this isn’t exactly a revelation.


As far back as at least last July, the rumour was that the UK government was pressuring its foreign allies to intervene in the debate, while simultaneously insisting that as an Englishman the PM should take no part. Today’s news appears to considerably firm up the claim.

To be honest, there isn’t much else to say. It’s hardly as if the UK government’s transparent hypocrisy hasn’t been exposed before, after all. And we can’t say we’ll exactly fall off our chairs tomorrow if the rest of the media doesn’t follow up the Herald’s lead. The all-Unionist panel on Radio Scotland’s “Headlines” today (about which we can’t complain – there was an all-nat one a week or two back) did its best to play the story down, and we expect the press to take a similar line.

All we’d advise is that the next time the press screams long and loud about some heavily-spun comment from Mariano Rajoy or some similar foreign dignatory, readers bear in mind how heavily they might have been leaned on to say it.

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    1. 23 01 18 20:28

      How Putin interfered for both sides in the Scottish Independence Referendum – barbaramckenzie

    119 to “In Russia, fear projects YOU”

    1. gordoz says:

      Cameron tries ’Putin’ Scotland off Independence with Russian help, but won’t debate cause ‘he’s not really involved and doesn’t have a vote…
      Ahhhhhh; So this is the ‘Best of Both worlds’ message !!!!
      (More like best of British & all that)

    2. ScotsCanuck says:

      You’re back !!! …….I was starting to have withdrawal symptoms. 

    3. KGB now stands for ‘Keep Great Britain’? 😉

    4. HandandShrimp says:

      It isn’t a surprise that Cameron has done this as he has already done it with Spain and the EU. It is par for the course. What is great is that the Russians have put it out there in a way the Spanish and EU have not.
      To be honest I am not sure Cameron’s approaches to the EU are holding. There does seem to be a breaking of ranks there too. Better Together are negativity and fear personified. Asking others to be negative to frighten us is so them it hardly raises an eyebrow.
      This one has fun mileage though, lots and lots of mileage.

    5. Wilma Watts says:

      Welcome back, we did miss you.
      When I got the “Forbidden” message I did fear the worst.

    6. DougtheDug says:

      Putin just shafted Cameron by releasing the information about the UK Government’s plea for help against Scottish independence.
      Why did Cameron think that Putin would be against Scottish independence or keep the conversation private?
      I don’t think that Putin cares anything about Scotland but he certainly has no sympathy for the UK or for David Cameron.

    7. ronnie anderson says:

      Withdrawal sympton,s, Ah wiz fur signin in tae ward 24. Well done Rev,

    8. Bill Symington says:

      Great to have wings back

    9. Bill C says:

      Personally I think this a very serious issue for two reasons:
      1. It appears the British Government is lobbying foreign governments to intervene in a UK domestic matter. That could be seen as a treasonable act in some quarters.
      2. If these reports are true then the UK Government is asking foreign states to undermine the democratic process in Scotland.
      I can only think of one other action by the UK Government which could be seen as more serious and that is military intervention to stop the referendum going ahead.

    10. Bill C says:

      @Bill Dubliner – Brilliant, do you mind if I use it on Twitter etc.?

    11. Bubbles says:

      Glad to have you back with us Stu. This is an interesting move, one which I think may backfire spectacularly. Let’s face it, the only possible justification for nuclear weapons would be as a retaliatory strike. By far the most likely aggressor (in this hemisphere at least) would be well, Russia of course. So I’m not sure an independent Scotland’s avowed intention to remove said “deterrent” would be perceived as a bad thing by the Russians.
      And of course, if the UK government and MSM (what, there’s a difference?) are to be believed, we won’t be members of NATO either. This would give the Russian fleet free passage through our waters. But then, as recent reports have highlighted, they pretty much have that already.
      Just thinking out loud.

    12. Bill C says:

      Sorry Bill flaming auto spell check.

    13. benarmine says:

      Ah, back at last. As Joni says, you don’t know what you got till it’s gone. Russians like Scotland and Burns, as a matter of fact everyone likes Scotland. The same cannot be said about the UK. If Cameron wants to look weak he’s going the right way about it

    14. John Jamieson says:

      In the meantime the Guardian is delighting us by giving the famed speed reader Mr Darling a no comments allowed opportunity to tell us all what a lovely chap he is and have a go at those nasty cybernats.

    15. Norrie says:

      Thank God your back been on valium for that 20 hours.
      My take on #indyrefski.
      Cameron pays the ultimate price.

    16. Of course, the fact that Cameron is so feart he feels the need to enlist Spanish and Russian help gives the lie to all the UK “punching above our weight”, Stronger Together tosh. Stronger Together? ?? ????!

    17. James Kay says:

      Scotch on the Rocks was a novel written in the 1970s by Douglas Hurd (later Foreign Secretary and challenger to succeed Margaret Thatcher as PM). Its plot assumed that a Nationalist Government was about to take over Scotland on the back of the recently-discovered oil wealth. But it all fell apart when the PM of the day revealed to the world that the Nationalists were backed by the Russians.
      Is today’s revelation SotR in reverse?
      p.s. Good to see you back!

    18. Bill says:

      Why would Putin object to Scottish Independence, he knows a Yes vote disarms UK of Trident.

    19. gordoz says:

      We in Scotland are are kidding ourselves on if we dont know much, much, worse than this stuff is happening all the time. But nice to see it in the papers making it awkward for ‘Cameron the Unconscientious’ anway.
      Sure our guys in the sevices are getting warned about ‘seditious’ dangers of Indy support. Businesses and Directors are also suffering from Cyberbrit / Britnat passive aggressive asertions everyday from press media & the State TV. Look at what they did over the naval shipyards and orders.
      So this stuff about Russia is a leak, substantiated or not and will no doubt all be confirmed 30yrs from now, as the  McCrone report, Oil in firth of Clyde & ‘Thatchers’ black art campaigns are now. But it is up to Scottish journalism to dig deeper for this stuff to counter the UK state machine and all its pustulated underbelly, (The uncomfertable truth that the no side choose to ignore).
      Agree with Rev re E McColm ‘ cosy / easy time’ with Ken MacDonald on radio state media.
      FFS Ken did you not read his disgusting & vile comments on Twitter about Clutha Heli crash vistims – or did you find that less offensive than asserted Cybernat pressure ? That was really poor journalism.

    20. liz says:

      Indeed welcome back – I was also getting anxious – we all know about the NSA and UK equivalent.
      If this is indeed trueabout Putin  it is disgraceful and it also shows the complete capitulation of the UK media.
      As John Jamieson says the Observer – Facts are Sacred – are repeating the lies about Calman’s death threats, Hoy being called a’ ("Tractor" - Ed)’ by the cybernats and Farage being ‘barracaded by a baying mob’.
      I’m glad you have removed them from the blog roll.

    21. Marker Post says:

      Welcome back Rev!
      Re: Herald story, it was only a couple of weeks ago that the Russian Navy was testing UK naval defences by sending a ship into the Moray Firth. Got to wonder if that has anything to do with this story.
      On the other hand, you would think that Putin would have trouble suppressing his laughter at Cameron asking for help re: Scottish independence.

    22. Ken500 says:

      Putin would welcome the UK (US) losing a ‘top’ seat at the UN. The world would be a more peaceful place. US/UK break International Laws, cause illegal Wars and back up apartheid States. US/UK gov break the Laws they make.

      Obama – Cameron is a lightweight.

      Putin – Westminster/Hague is lightweight

      China – Britain is a small country, without Empire or influence

      China – Scotland is the country of invention and innovation.

    23. Blackford Wheeler says:

      Phew Rev Stu, I thought the CyberSpetsnaz had got you.
      I was starting to crack up. It was so bad I went out and bought a Sunday Herald!

    24. Mark Coburn says:

      And we might as well ask, where was Great Britain’s helping hand to Russia when the Soviet Union broke up? I suspect that Putin might just be laughing his arse off. The Kremlin-Westminster relationship just got that bit more interesting.

    25. CameronB says:

      If this is confirmed, is “the Cameron aide had warned Scottish independence could “send shockwaves across the whole of Europe”, an indication of how worried Whitehall is about losing Scotland’s revenues? A failing rUK would certainly have consequences.

    26. Twenty14 says:

      You could make a movie out of all this – oops they did ” From Russia with Love “

    27. Silverytay says:

      Welcome Back Rev    
      According to my wife I have been like a Bear with a sore head or in the words of my youngest Son , a junkie who was unable to get his daily fix.

    28. Marker Post says:

      Re: the Alistair Darling interview in the Guardian, I see there are no comments allowed. Is it because those vile cybernats might point out absurdities in the article, like, “The truth is that polls haven’t shifted at all in the last seven years”; or, “Of course [Salmond’s] a guy of some ability, but he’s never been held up to day-to-day scrutiny, as most other politicians are. For this, perhaps, we must blame the increasingly supine Scottish media”.
      And I just love how Labour is still in denial about 2011. “You never know when some seismic event is going to occur. The nationalists were 11 points behind in 2011, and they went on to win the election”. Sorry, Alistair, but what seismic event was there in 2011 that caused such a swing? There was no seismic event! The polls were wrong!! Whether deliberate or not, they were just wrong!!!

    29. Xaracen says:

      Fair put a dent in my day, not having Wings to read this morning. Didn’t know what to do with myself.
      So, the independence debate is only for those in Scotland, is it? Our country must be a lot bigger than I realised! 🙂

    30. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Russians like us:

    31. gordoz says:

       O/T: This is very good stuff on subject of YES
      Derek Bateman online Interview
      There is a brilliant and insightful podcast on the Michael Geenwell site above in R/H/S Scottish plotitics tab. Lasts about 40mins but covers some real issues of some value.
      Access the site and scroll down where you see this  below (3/4 down page)
      You can listen to the show online at its web page
      Have not provided a direct link as I did not want to crash the WoS system so soon.

    32. Marie Pickering says:

      So glad you’re back!  I was really down when I could not access the wisdom that is Wings!  Thank you Rev. Stu!

    33. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Should this be true, and the gun is smoking, Cameron would not be the first Tory Oxford Toff to collaborate with the Russians.

    34. ronnie anderson says:

      We, need to demonstrate to the MSM / the Scottish public, the tactic,s used by the UK gov, let,s give the Bbc /Stv /Newspaper,s something they cannot Ignore,. RALLY,S RALLY,S, RALLY,S

    35. Macart says:

      Good to see you back Rev.
      This one’s getting posted elsewhere right now. 🙂

    36. SquareHaggis says:

      Good to see WoS back! Felt like I had the DT’s.
      Really missed yesterdays chapter of “The Claim of Scotland” – does this mean we get 2 chapters today?
      Stay safe Rev & Co

    37. Silverytay says:

      Putin is the last person who will help Cameron out as he has not forgotten what western countries encouraged the break up of the former U.S.S.R .
      Cameron will be hard put to find any country with the exception of Spain who would want to intervene in Scotland,s referendum .
      Some will of course make noises just for diplomatic sake but the likes of Malaysia , Kenya and other countries where Britain committed atrocities are not going to be to bothered if Scotland votes for independence .
      Canada will make noises due to the Quebec situation but they can not afford to upset their own electorate of Scottish descent and the same goes for countries like Australia , New Zealand and even America which has a lot of citizens of Scottish descent .

    38. Papadocx says:

      How low and nasty can the ESTABLISHMENT get. They will use anybody anything to undermine the integrity and will of the Scottish people, they are capable of ANYTHING. Hope all the good old god fearing better together Tories can explain how Russia has become their bestest pal.
      Wonder how it would go if we offered Putin the faslane facility for keeping his subs in at a price. there will be plenty room after Dave removes his. after all they are best pals with Dave so presume it would be ok. We could get queeny up to open it as a favour to the tory better together loyalists.

    39. fairiefromtheearth says:

      cmon putin riding a bear across a river, i think i saw the real photo he was riding a donkey. Dont slip like the MSM any lie is a lie.

    40. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a real Russian talking about Burns:

    41. ronnie anderson says:

      Might be a good time folk,s, to E MAIL RT .COn with comment,s ask them to hold debate, s in Scotland

    42. Still nothing on the BBC Scotland News website on the biggest news story of the day, but they’ve managed to churn a Project Fear press release about whining Unionist academics.
      Scots are better informed by TASS!

    43. Dcanmore says:

      The British Establishment wouldn’t think twice of being ("Tractor" - Ed)ous to Scotland, they’e been doing it for years to curry favour in international circles.

    44. KraftyKris says:

      Slightly OT, did anyone who clicked the herald link notice the mercat tours ad? 
      Mercat tours international
      invites you to celebrate
      WWI Christmas truce centenary.
      It’s revealed slowly, so it seemed like an invitation to celebrate the start of the war until the last moment (maybe a marketing ploy to grab your attention, it certainly got mine).

    45. CameronB says:

      Re: the Alistair Darling interview. Darling’s claim of a “supine Scottish media” supporting the FM, must surely be amongst the most blatant lies printed in recent history. It ranks right up there with the scares about Saddam’s chemical weapons and 45 minutes from attack.

    46. Bill McLean says:

      Why should we be surprised at anything Westminster tries to do to us? Look at what they have done in the past all over the world! You would think though, as their best friends for 307 years, that they would have a bit of respect. Respect is alien to the warmongers, liars and thieves who inhabit the “Palace of Westminster”. Glad to see you back Rev !

    47. DougtheDug says:

      In Alistair Darling’s piece in the Observer it seems a dislike of David Cameron is now an emotion peculiar to those pesky nationalists.
      “If you’re a tribal nationalist, you don’t like David Cameron full stop.”
      I suspect Darling wholeheartedly supports any effort by David Cameron to stop Scottish independence by fair means or foul including Russia.
      There’s also a number of classic snippets in that article.
      Alex Salmond controls all “cyber-nats”
      “The cyber-nat activity is disgraceful. They will trash anyone who disagrees with them. Their intention is to make people keep their heads down. Salmond could stop it, but he doesn’t choose to”
      The only way to show solidarity with English people is to be part of their country.
      “I honestly can’t understand a person being more willing to express their solidarity with people in Romania than with people in England.”
      We’re going to be out of Europe.
      He is scathing of the SNP’s white paper on independence, published last year. “It tells you – I’m not joking – that we will enter the Eurovision song contest…It’s the same with Europe. The Spanish prime minister and Barroso have said Scotland would have to reapply for membership, but still they just assert that we would be a member. Salmond was asked if anything at all in the white paper is true – and we might well ask. I doubt they’ve checked with the people at the Eurovision song contest either. It’s a work of fiction.”
      Alex Salmond and the SNP have an easy ride in the Scottish media.
      Darling doesn’t “chat” to Salmond. “Of course he’s a guy of some ability, but he’s never been held up to day-to-day scrutiny, as most other politicians are.”

    48. Ericmac says:

      The whole international approach explains George Robertson’s recent Washington Post article.  Its all just part of the UK Government strategy to use everything at their disposal to maintain their power.  

    49. kininvie says:

      Let’s look at it through Westminster’s eyes for a moment:
      1) The debate: Cameron’s stance is that he is Prime Minister or the whole of the United Kingdom, therefore to represent one part of it in a debate against another part would be to acknowledge there was an internal division already. That may be sophistry, but that’s why there won’t be a debate.
      2) The Diplomats: It is the policy of the United Kingdom government that the Union should remain intact. Since it is a diplomat’s job to represent UK policy abroad, they will do what they are tellt, including warning all and sundry about shockwaves throughout Europe if that’s the Whitehall spin of the day. It’s no coincidence that countries with independence movements of their own are prime targets for a bit of softening up. Of course, how other countries regard our referendum is a different matter – many will be neutral; some will be hostile. The principle of territorial integrity runs pretty deep.
      In the long run, it’s not important. What is important – of vital importance – is rUK recognition of Scottish independence. The rest of the world will follow that lead. But, as Michael Moore said ‘Scotland cannot expect a free pass’. There will be a price.
      BTW, I’m disappointed in Twitter. If this story really appeared on the Russian News Agency wires on Hogmanay, it should have been picked up far sooner…

    50. Ericmac says:

      @Marker Post
      “Alistair Darling interview in the Guardian, I see there are no comments allowed.”
      No doubt specifically requested by Darling.

    51. Tattie-bogle says:

      I thought the FSB had you somewhere waterboarding you

    52. Ericmac says:

      When was the last time a Russian Ship visited Scotland?  (Other than the two recent)
      And when was the last time we had a bomb alert at Edinburgh airport or anywhere in Scotland for that matter?

      I’ll get my tinfoil hat now.  And my coat.  But honestly, this current Government leaves me very uneasy about everything.  This is the rendition, illegal torture, surveillance and 30 years information suppressing Westminster we are talking about.

    53. Betsy says:

      ‘In Alistair Darling’s piece in the Observer it seems a dislike of David Cameron is now an emotion peculiar to those pesky nationalists.’
      What peculiar opinions Darling has. He talks like a man concussed. 
      Personally speaking my dislike of David Cameron comes from my left wing outlook. If I were to look at it in purely nationalist terms then I’d have to conclude the man is doing a superb job for the Yes side.

    54. Ericmac says:

      @kinivie Perhaps it was being suppressed. 

    55. Linda's Back says:

      The supine Scottish media that Darling refers to failed to pick up on the Financial Times expose of the flawed ONS stats for Scotland.  Flawed Ssats which most of the BT supporting press blazed all over their front pages.

      In an article on 18th December headlined ONS admits gaffe on Scottish growth the FT reported that a spokesperson for the ONS had admitted its statisticians had not accounted for inflation correctly and said a new version of the tables ‘would soon be published’.

      Newsnet Scotland readers will be interested to hear that the FT article also included a comment from Prof John McLaren of the Centre for Public Policy for Regions (CPPR).  The FT wrote:

      John McLaren of the Centre for Public Policy for Regions said he welcomed efforts by the ONS to produce more detailed regional data but questioned why the experimental data had not been more carefully checked. He said there were some “very odd” features in the data – such as unfeasibly sharp falls in education and manufacturing activity – that meant its suggestion that overall Scottish growth had been overstated should be treated with great caution.

    56. mogabee says:

      Big relief to see Wings flying again! 
      Russians definitely love Scots, so as others have stated this direction by Cameron is doomed. In fact, I don’t know of any nation or country who have grudge against us…

    57. Tattie-bogle says:

      Has Cameron struck a deal.UK embassies don’t charge russia to promote Vodka

    58. Gillie says:

      So on one hand we have David Cameron saying in public this is a debate and decision solely for Scots, and on the other privatelly seeking common cause with Belgian right wingers, Spanish neo-facists, a Russian gangster government and assorted dubious regimes to subvert the democratic process and prevent peoples to assert their right of self-determination.
      GFT, that is what I say.

    59. Tattie-bogle says:

      O/T David Cameron when it comes to a live TV debate with Alex Salmond. …replace frenchies with jocks

    60. AnneDon says:

      @KraftyKris – if the advert is badly-worded, I have to say that Mercat Tours do a tour of the battlefields every year. It is very respectful, and not celebratory. Often, it involves schoolchildren, or the relatives of those who perished.
      I know one of the guides who does the tour – she wouldn’t be impressed about celebrating the war – celebrating the Christmas truce, though, is probably a bit different?

    61. AnneDon says:

      In the 80s, one of the drivers of European unity was the EC’s dislike of Thatcher. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing is happening now with Cameron.

    62. Alba4Eva says:

      I would suggest that the stance on Faslane and nuclear weapons will hold more swsy with Putin and Russia in general.

    63. Alba4Eva says:

      “sway”… oops… the recent glitches seem to have stopped the editing post option too Stu.

    64. John H. says:

      Welcome back Rev. I was starting to worry that this was a test run by the unionists prior to blocking independence leaning websites just before the referendum.
      If the unionists really think that they are winning the argument, then why would they go to the trouble of attempting to enlist the aid of other countries?

    65. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Evil CyberNat Website in Bareback Rider Stushie.’

    66. Ericmac says:

      There is no country in the world so fit, ready and deserving of Independence than Scotland.  Most of the world know that. 

      There is no country in the world so diplomatically duplicitous, imperialist and self aggrandising than the UK. Most of the world know that.
      Arguably, a NO vote will reverbrate internationally, just as much as a YES vote will.  The evidence will emerge to reveal Westminster’s charter.  

    67. CameronB says:

      Possible deal – we support you and you stuff the EU (and NATO), by keeping your nose out of the Ukraine?
      “As Ukrainian officials assured the EU that they had not given up on the bilateral deal, President Viktor Yanukovich on Monday stressed that he “was, is, and will be a supporter of European democratic values and standards.”
      “Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire…”
      – Brezezinski, “The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geostrategic Imperatives”, 1977

    68. Les Wilson says:

      Russia said that Scots dead during world war one, were higher in terms of population than other Nations. This was in a paper report some time ago but I did read it. So my opinion is that Russia does like us, as well as our whisky and our National poet!

    69. boglestone says:

      Bring it on, I say. Scotland loves being the underdog, it brings out the fight in us. Can you imagine how underdoggy we’d get if the whole world was against us and not just the British state? 🙂

    70. Clarinda says:

      Ian Brotherhood – I was wondering too whether that was bareback or bearback in the photo.
      I see Mr Bateman’s latest has suggested a number of other interesting global leaders being schmoozed by Bereft Totally and as a consequence all sporting any outward sign of rebellious scotchness to be viewed with grave suspicion.

    71. Chic McGregor says:

      Welcome back Wings.  Shit happens eh?
      Can I suggest, that for future occurrances, even though I know you hate it, that  facebook be used to keep folk informed?  Don’t know what the relative usage is compared to twitter, but I know a lot of folk use it and are, like me, not very twitter literate.
      Also, fb, in conjunction with say pdf in dropbox or similar, could enable a reasonable continuity of articles and comments.
      On the latest Brit Establishment skulduggery. I think this might just have elevated it to the point where the UN might be prepared to say something. Wonder if anyone has asked them?

    72. alexicon says:

      It’s probably correct to say that the MSM will probably brush this under the carpet and carry on regardless.
      Queue the next anti Indepnendence story in tomorrows press.
      Stu, wings and newsnet have got a mention in newsnow search engine (press listing) today.
      Hopefully it will lead to more hits and a better informed readership.

    73. Andy-B says:

      So I can assume Vladimir Putin will show up, in Scotland with his karate suit on ready to chop any and all nationalist hhhiiiyyahh! take that. Or maybe we’ll have an influx of Russian fruit pickers who are secretly the FSB agents in disguise.
      No mention at all of this story in the Scottish Sunday (muppet) Mail, only attacks on the FM’s expenses and Brian Souters donations to the SNP, no balanced reporting there then, no mention of,any unionist donations from none Scottish residents.
      As for David Cameron remaining impartial in the independence debate, it seems he’s trying his hardest to turn other countries leaders against the independnece movement, a sign of desperation by the unionists me thinks.

    74. Gillie says:
      Muscovites Together. The Russians are coming and are to send a friendly warship to Scottish waters to keep the natives in check.

    75. muttley79 says:

      I am just disappointed Cameron did not approach the North Koreans!… :D: :D:

    76. Dal Riata says:

      Re the Alistair Darling article in the Observer online: There is a classic example, right there, of the UK’s media working as no more than a propaganda outlet for Better Together. As others have given examples of above, Alistair Darling, as head of the Better Together campaign, is given free rein to spout misinformation and outright lies in a 3,000-word article. To cap it all off, no comments have been allowed BTL.
      So, then, we should expect a similar 3,000-word article promoting the Yes Scotland campaign with Blair Jenkins making the case in next week’s Observer to show that the UK’s MSM is fair, unbiased and impartial regarding the Scottish independence referendum in September, shouldn’t we… um… shouldn’t we? 

    77. heedtracker says:

      Thank goodness you’re back Rev! Cameron and Darling, spivs that came in from the cold was funny on twitter last night but reports UK gov ministers/Osborne spending ten grand on RADA acting lessons. It gets weirder by the day. 

    78. Paul says:

      Darling’s act of desperation the problem for him is that the Yes side lampoon him and his own side don’t even listen to him after all his Tory allies in part blame him for the banking crisis so it helps get their banking pals off the hook. 

    79. a supporter says:

      It was very interesting to see how  #indyrefski took off as a theme on Twitter. And it just shows how we can grab the political initiative. Twitter is now a very potent weapon in the campaign. I only started to use it about two months ago and I have been amazed at the growth of the Indy case being put there even in that short time. But more to the point, it cannot be ignored by the traditional media because the opinions expressed on Twitter circulate far and wide.

    80. Andy-B says:

      Heres a piece by John Wight,on RT who says he’s voting no, claiming its a statement of solidarity with the rest of the working class of the UK.

    81. Horacesaysyes says:

      What exactly would be in it for other governments if it is true that all the embassies have been told to lobby against independence to their hosts?
      I’d have thought that the EU would be quite happy to be shot of Westminster if Scotland and its oil remained inside. (Ok, its a big market that would be lost, but I don’t see the rUK being in any hurry to leave EEA). Russia and China are hardly likely to be upset at any ‘downsizing’ of the UK, and it would be the height of hypocrisy for the former UK colonies to oppose independence for us.
      Surely only the US would be really concerned?

    82. Jim says:

      Yes Mr. Putin. Your’e great at oppressing national minorities. Can we have your support to suppress the Scots please?
      We wont stop aiming our nuclear weapons at you though, to threaten your weans with the most horrible death imaginable.

    83. CameronB says:

      Sorry, OT. Re. Darling and how he is now trying to distance himself from HS2. He can posture all he wants, but the project will be completed, regardless of costs. It is part of the EU’s Trans-European high-speed rail network, which was defined by the Council Directive 96/48/EC of 23 July 1996.[1]
      The man simply can’t be trusted. He worked in high office in both Transport and Treasury, so he will know exactly what legal commitments there are.

      If I remember correctly, the original European plan was for a high-speed link from Dover to Scotland. Stranraer was the intended terminus, but a location for the hub hadn’t been identified. Well we saw how well that went. Remember, European projects are funded through additional spending, which means the UK gov has to match EU funding. And we all know where the vast amount of capital investment is made in the UK. The south east.

      What flavour of jam is we be getting? 😉

    84. Flower of Scotland says:

      So Cameron seems to be sending Diplomats to all countries with influence to ask them to speak out AGAINST Scottish Independence , but who pays them ! They will be charging US through taxes ! We want Independence but are paying people to undermind us ! Crazy ! And they get away with it ! Great to see Wings back ! 

    85. Rough Bounds. says:

      There is nothing new in any of this. Back in the early days of the 14th century King Edward of England wrote to the Pope asking for his support in putting down Scotland’s aspirations to independence. The Pope cordially responded by ex-communicating the whole of Scotland’s population.
      The Scots just blew their noses, sniffed, and got back to the business of throwing Edward and his army out of our country.
      Two hundred years later they threw out the Pope as well. We have long memories.

    86. JLT says:

      This week has left me wondering about two things. One, what the hell if going on with the BT campaign, the Prime Minister and the media, and two, what sort of relationship ARE Scotland and England going to have post Independence!
      To get to Point 2 …you need to look at Point 1 …and it makes for grim reading.
      We have Darling mouthing off today in the Guardian (2 posts detailing the same piece, by the way!!) in which, he asserts that it is going to get much nastier …much, much nastier. He blames the Nationalists for this (so much for the respect we were meant to show each other, then!)
      Then we have the Herald and the Scotsman telling us that Cameron has scampered to the Russian,s whining like an 8 year old kid, asking them to sort out Salmond. So much for Cameron staying out of this!
      This is going to get bitter …very bitter. I can see every bit of pressure being put on the Scots to fold from just about everyone (the rUK, the EU, the US), and I think we should start preparing ourselves for the worst.

      Personally …if David Cameron is going to continually spout off about not wanting to debate, and yet, and the same time, he is talking to every paper, shouting off sound-bites, and running to other nations leaders, then really, the Yes campaign should be screaming from the rafters …and I mean SCREAM …for a debate between Salmond and Cameron. They don’t ever let up on this one! Cameron, as well as the media can’t deny it. They’re bloody reporting it!!! Even the No mob must be uneasy at what they are reading today. Cameron is deeply involved in this debate. He has made it so. It is high time that the man be dragged to the podium. Even the people of England want it!
      Now, if BT, Darling and Cameron have decided to ramp up the bitterness and ugliness of the Independence campaign, then this will only go one way, and it will pee off, not just the Scots (for it will grow as the people get angrier as what they will perceive to be underhanded tactics, slanderous comments, and complete lies from London), but it will also anger the rest of the rUK too. What I mean by that, is that if they media, the PM, and BT intend to paint the Scots black, then surely, it only entrenches the views of the rest of the rUK that the Scots are a bunch of rabble-rousers, money grabbers and ("Tractor" - Ed)ous as usual to good old Britain!

      However, BT, the PM and the media can’t have it both ways. If they blacken the Scots, then they can’t be ‘love-bombing’ us at the same time. It won’t wash. Most Scots will spot what is happening both sides of the border with the media, and will only get angry. They can’t tell us ‘you Scots are great!’ while running around the world, telling all and sundry, and pointing fingers at us, and shouting that no one should trade with the Scots. That is what Cameron is telling Russia and the G8. Don’t trade with the Scots. Break them financially. This is a re-enactment of the Darien Disaster, only now in the year 2014, not 1698.
      If Yes does come to pass, then I have no doubt that a lot of investigation and what insidious skulduggery took place during the campaign will come to light. This may only serve to embitter views even further, hence I wonder what sort of relationship we will have with England. I don’t really mean the masses, but the governments in general. Will an indy Scottish Government really be friendly towards an embittered rUK government if the campaign was truly nasty?

      For me …if it turns very nasty and bitter between here and the vote, then I can only see animosity post-independence for quite a while. Post negotiations could be truly bitter leading to further accusations and finger-pointing.
      The question will be …would we want to be tied to the rUK post independence if animosity between the two countries is seriously fraught? Would a currency union even work if a depth of bitterness exists?

      As I said, thanks to the BT mobs words and actions this week, it has left me wondering…

    87. Brian Mark says:

      Welcome back Rev!
      Great dictators think alike, Stalin would have been proud of both Cameron and the Russian Muppet 

    88. Hetty says:

      It would save us all a lot of bother if A Darling jumped camp and joined the tories officially, go on Mr D, your lies are palpable which can’t be good for anyone. 

      The interview with Alex Salmond on Rtnews last year at least showed a willingness to begin some kind of intelligent discourse re Independence, I am sure most people here will have watched it but if not, just google A Salmond on Rtnews. Be good to have an update on that from Rt.

    89. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Interesting ruminations from Stephen Purcell in the Sunday Times

    90. Robert Louis says:

      I do wonder how Dunan Hothershall of Better together will react to the news that his unionist partners are cosying up to Putin, the mastermind of perhaps one of the most repressive pieces of homophobic legislation in recent times.
      Right now in the gay world, Putin is rightly regarded as worse than beelzebub himself.
      So, I do wonder how Mr Hotherhall feels about this???   Are Scottish gay people also better togehter working hand in glove with the aggressively homophobic Vladimir Putin?  What price beating the a YES vote, Mr Hothershall??
      I thought Labour as part of ‘Better Together’ getting into bed with oil magnate Ian Taylor (google him) was bad enough, but working with homophobic Putin????  I mean, do Labour have ANY principles left????  How low can Labour and their British Nationalist cabal go??

    91. annie says:

      I honestly can’t believe how just about everything  Project Fear attempt leaves them open to ridicule – surely there must be a few “double agents” at work.

    92. kalmar says:

      There were some pretty switched-on callers to that Westsound AM call-in show this morning – this issue came up, and Blair McDougal laughed it off as a James Bond esque “work of fiction”.  Personally I think it’s a airtight goddam scandal, can you imagine what would happen if the president of the US pulled a stunt like that?  Jesus!
      Willing to bet this is a dirty trick by Putin against the UK actually, similar to the gunboat stunt.
      Anyway, worth a listen to that show if it’s available, it was a breath of fresh air to hear Yes-inclined callers getting put through, and the host himself challenged Blair when some of the more ridiculous BT talking points come up.

    93. msean says:

      To be fair,Popes weren’t always against Scots,it’s politics. Pope Martin v upon hearing of the victory at Bauge in France,won mostly by Scots “verily,the Scots are a well known antidote to the English.”  

    94. msean says:

      By the way,welcome back Wings.

    95. Paul Kelly says:

      Does this mean there is a chance Cameron will call on his “champion ” Putin to debate with Salmond. 

    96. Arbroath 1320 says:

      As so many others have already said Stu:
      I can’t believe Cameron is so thick. Does he seriously believe, in his own Walter Mitty styled life, that Russia will for one second agree to help him ‘save’ Scotland from the wretches of Independence whilst Cameron continues to point all his W.M.D.’s at Moscow?
      Surely on the international scale of things the only way Putin would agree to ‘assist’ Cameron would be if Cameron removed all his W.M.D.’s from service. As we all know this will never happen because as we are so often reminded by Darling and his cohorts Cameron’s W.M.D.’s ensures the U.K. gets a seat at the U.N.’s top table.
      So Cameron is buddying up to Spain and the E.U. as well as Russia in his pathetic incompetent efforts to keep Scotland within his Broken Union. I have just one question for him, “who are you going to be buddying up to next Mr. Cameron China, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Cuba, Vietnam?”

    97. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      How much did Vlad contribute to Better Together to get this unique negotiating position?

    98. HandandShrimp says:

      What is interesting – all the joking aside – is why Tass has covered this story. It does not serve Cameron well and the Kremlin is not apparently saying anything untoward about Scottish independence. Is this a case of the Kremlin putting the boot into Cameron?

    99. kininvie says:

      In a word – yes. There will have been quiet lobbying about indyref all over the place, but most countries will have just kept quiet about it, made up their own minds and will be waiting on events. The fact that Russia puts it out publicly is designed as a little mild embarassment for DC.
      Russia, of course, is only a friend to independence movements when it suits them (Abkhasia) and exceedingly brutal when it doesn’t (Chechens). There’s nothing new there. But I imagine there will be people in the Kremlin thinking that Scottish Independence weakens the UK, and hence the US. So we are being treated well by RT and Tass is happy to leak Cameron’s lobbying efforts….
      But never forget that in international politics nations don’t go out of their way to be philanthropic. Self interest rules – it’s a fact. It’s why Robin Cook’s ethical foreign policy turned out to be a non-starter.

    100. kalmar says:

      For sure, if this approach was made back in June, and only being leaked now (or on Hogmanay, cheers Vlad!) it’s definitely a political manoeuvre designed to embarrass Cameron.

    101. dadsarmy says:

      It appears that following Cameron’s urgent plea, the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency, have set up a branch called the GBRU as in Great Britain Russian Union, and the UK, the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have agreed to rename the “five eyes” intelligence collaboration, the “six eyes” and totally include Russia in their intelligence gathering and dissemination.
      The mind boggles.

    102. callum says:

      about the Russian navy operating off the coast of Scotland, rather than a sulky and a unpolitely late HMS Defender in the shadows to escort the Russian ships away. 
      I’d like to think of the brand new sleek Scottish navy meeting the Russian navy off Scotland (within an hour) and the message coming over the wire…  “This is the HMS Coatbridge. Stop.  Your are in our sights. Stop. Nice ship by the way. Stop.  We have a great Whisky collection onboard.  Stop.  Got any plans for dinner.  Stop.  you’re welcome to come over at 6.  Neeps and tatties alright?.  Stop”

    103. dadsarmy says:

      An old article (2012) about Russia’s interest in our Independence:

    104. Graeme McCormick says:

      This maybe explains the Royal Navy’s failure to be on hand to escort Russian naval ships out of the Moray Firth and the UK taking a back seat in the negotiations in the Far North.

    105. Vincent McDee says:

      Funny, ain’t it? Albion can’t be but perfidious
      Perfidious Albion is a pejorative phrase used within the context of international relations and diplomacy to refer to acts of duplicity, treachery and hence infidelity (with respect to promises made to or alliances formed with other nation states) by monarchs or governments of Britain (or England) in their pursuit of self-interest and the requirements of realpolitik

    106. dadsarmy says:

      I couldn’t agree more, and in all seriousness too. That’s the way to handle it.

    107. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Russia may have some more feeling for Scotland than England/uk. We have had many generals and soldiers in their armies over hundreds of years. General Patrick Gordon prob most well known and many others, about 15,  some reaching rank of Field Marshal. Actually quite apt that the russian navy were in the moray firth. Their ensign is a saltire, with reversed colours.

    108. Arbroath 1320 says:

      @ callum
      Interesting idea there, what’s more I’m sure that is exactly the sort of welcome the Russians would get from a Scottish Defence Force ship. :P:

    109. Alan Mackintosh says:

      It was the Royal Scottish Navy before 1707, sounds like a good name. BTW, re above, there were about 15 generals in the army, hundreds /thousands of soldiers. Also RSN officers in Russina navy as well. So yes, welcome to Scottish waters…

    110. dadsarmy says:

      The background to all this is that having lost the Cold War through their economy, the Russians in parallel with the Chinese set about winning the Economic War with the opening shot being the dropping of the Wall, and with other measures which seem to have gone largely uncommented. They have been achieving this quite happily. Meanwhile the West has lost just about all its Cold War analysts and the plot into the bargain, aided by Hague, a total numbskull, and a naive and wet behint the ears Cameron.
      Now winning the Economic War the Russians are back to their old tricks, aided and abetted by the usual TASS usage of incautious over-enthusiastic utterings of “Government representatives”, and are back to their old tricks of drawing spheres of influence, discomforting the West, and instead of military threats, economic threats as in the case of the Ukraine. The aim perhaps to recreate the USSR but on an economic basis leading to the usual military co-operation, while at the same time modernising their military and making it more efficient. China is of course doing the same in its way, and a new entrant to the pact is North Korea.
      Meanwhile the West has largely disbanded its Cold War forces, thinking for some extraordinary reason the whole thing is done and dusted,  and is still in the process of changing them to meet the perceived threat of terrorism and piracy, thus rendering them less suitable for Cold War type engagements. This new phase hasn’t got a new name because, basically, the West doesn’t really accept it’s happening, just as it didn’t put a name to the “Economic War” phase. I call this phase the “Stealth War”. The Pact is winning it.
      Am I in need of a tin-foil hat? Maybe, but we don’t have enough tinfoil left after Christmas …

    111. theycan'tbeserious says:

      Maybe the nukes on the Clyde aren’t trained on Moscow, but on Holyrood?

    112. Macart says:

      Brilliant… stop. 😀

    113. Kalmar says:

      I suppose that’s it, at the end of the day, Moscow is delighted at the prospect of Trident being homeless…

    114. Patrician says:

      Why are people surprised and angry about this? What did you expect? That the British Empire would just roll over and accept the loss of Scotland.  This is realpolitik now, most counties couldn’t care one way or the other about our situation, they only care about what is in it for them. The Russians only reported this to embarrass the UK. Ask yourself this, if this was published on 1 Jan this year, why has it taken so long to be picked up?  Doesn’t anyone who supports independence speak Russian? 
      I would say black ops campaign is only just starting but this has been going on for some time. It is going to get a lot worse than this before September.  Some of what we will read and hear is true but some of it will only be done to get a reaction. They can then point to us and say “just ignore them, they are just mad”.

    115. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Why are people surprised and angry about this?”

      I’m not sure anyone is. We’re mostly amused.

    116. Craig P says:

      You can bet that the UK government has asked every other country in Europe and the G20 for help against the secessionists, but they will have kept that request quiet. I’m not for a minute suggesting cuddling up to the bear, but thanks Russia for embarrassing the UK’s government’s international machinations 🙂

    117. Ian Mor says:

      Have trawled and better trawled all international news agencies and archives including Itar-Tass. No reference, no source. To paraphrase a well worn web saying “links or it didn’t happen” If Itar-Tass ever released this, anywhere in any form, then they have taken a leaf out the Beeb’s news feeds and pulled the story. Sorry MSM – no source, no story as far as I’m concerned. Nice click through revenue though, kerching.

    118. joe kane says:

      When unionists on Twitter objected to YES LGBT activists interfering in the internal affairs of Russia –

    119. crisiscult says:

      Got the wife on the case on this topic – she’s Russian/Ukrainian. I was a bit late picking up on it as haven’t had time to visit the site lately. I did a quick bit of searching myself and there seem to be quite a lot of stories on tass about Scottish independence of late, including a couple stating 60% are opposed to separation or ‘for saving this part of Great Britain’ (my attempted translation – may be interesting to see if this language has changed from say a few months ago e.g. was the language more neutral or even positive).

      Story on Russian version of RT 12th January sources tass and Herald, but states that Downing Street have denied the story.

      Personally I think this is important. Assuming its true (why would it be fabricated – not sure), it shows desperation?

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