In at the deep end
Well, at least now I know how a bullet feels when it gets fired from a gun.
I got home on Saturday evening, and started with a wander around the former social-housing estate where my parents live, now bisected by walls and fences and hedges where people bought their houses under Right To Buy and privatised wee patches of once communal ground. The policy clearly didn’t bring the Tories the gratitude they’d hoped for. Somewhat to my surprise I counted 21 Yes houses to 3 No.
The next day I went to Glasgow.
My plan from yesterday until the referendum was to just wander around the central belt randomly on a whim, incognito, taking in the atmosphere and seeing how the debate really felt on the streets, far from the isolated VILE CYBERNAT CONTROL CENTRE in Bath. The experience was a bit like going from 0-100mph in 0.5 seconds.
On the train to Glasgow I got as far as Airdrie before being recognised by several unconnected people. (Admittedly I was conspicuously thumbing through the Wee Blue Book – partly scanning for surviving typos but mainly in the hope that people would say “Oh, I’ve heard about that” and I could use it as an opportunity to give them a copy.) I posed for a couple of selfies and ended up chatting to a very nice young mum, a former No who said she’d done the research and found out the facts and was now firmly Yes.
At Queen Street Station I got out and turned onto Buchanan Street. About a hundred yards down were Anas Sarwar and eight or nine 10 Labour activists with a trestle table, trying – with very little success – to hand out No Thanks leaflets.
Anas was putting a brave face on it, but had his back to the middle of the street and wasn’t talking to anyone. I growled “Naw” at the two goons who tried to offload a leaflet onto me and carried on down towards Argyle Street, pausing to perplex a Yes chap giving out various things from cardboard boxes by noting “That’s a smashing-looking book you’ve got there”.
People in the street were wearing and carrying Saltires. As I neared the bottom of the road, by complete chance, the BBC protest march was passing. It was in exuberant spirits, chanting “Independence!”, “Yes! Yes! Yes!” and occasional bursts of “Flower Of Scotland”. Scores of people on the opposite side of Argyle Street were filming it on their phones, sometimes clapping and offering shouts of support. At the junction just before Central Station the traffic had to be stopped to let it cross the street. Drivers honked their horns and the crowd cheered. There were no No supporters in sight, and the atmosphere was of a carnival.
I watched for a couple of minutes, counting roughly 1200 people passing me. I didn’t see the start or the end of the parade, so had no way of judging the total numbers. I headed on to Central to catch my train to Shawlands, where I was doing a filmed interview for The Drum as part of a series for a documentary on the referendum. As I got there, they’d just finished uploading the first clip to YouTube, with Sunday Herald editor Richard Walker, which you can see below.
I did the piece (mostly just me droning on about Wings’ readership stats and the like) and checked Google Maps for my next destination, which was happily just around the corner. I’d wanted to go somewhere I thought would be fairly low-key, so I’d picked Women For Independence’s “Art For Aye” exhibition in the Shawlands Arcade, featuring speeches from Lesley Riddoch and Ruth Wishart among others.
With the BBC protest and big events in other places like Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness, I figured it might be relatively sedate and I could bumble around, take in some art by the likes of Vonny Bravo, and maybe quietly say hello to a couple of people I knew would be there.
Fat chance of that. There was a tall young piper in full regalia outside the mall entrance, a guy with a Yes rickshaw and the splendid comedian Bruce Morton, all of whom spotted me right away. We had a blether, did a few more selfies and then I went in to the gallery where the event was taking place, but any hope of getting in was long gone. It was packed to the gunnels and strictly one-in, one-out. So I hung around outside talking to more lovely people, until suddenly there was a commotion and Nicola Sturgeon swept out.
(Embarrassingly, I hadn’t even noticed her name on the bill.)
She headed off, pursued by crowds, to another part of the arcade where a second round of speeches was scheduled. (Why in two places I have no idea.) After a while I headed up after them, meeting Observer columnist Kevin McKenna (and his daughter Clare) there and scores of other people, all unable to get into the second venue as had been the case with the first. The place was mobbed, impossible to count accurately but certainly hundreds.
The atmosphere was electric, as it had been on Argyle Street. Glasgow felt palpably buzzing. Everyone was happy, smiling, laughing, singing and hugging. My plan to stay incognito was in tatters. I reluctantly defaced lots of Wee Blue Books with my signature, protesting in vain that this would make them less attractive to undecideds they needed passing onto, and gave out some badges to kids along with the few copies I’d been able to get into my bag.
After a couple of hours the crowds had dispersed and I headed back into town for some food, light-headed from the boundless energy and positivity of everyone I’d met (also no lunch). I needed fortifying, because next was my mission to the Dark Side.
At the Marriot hotel in the centre of the city, Muslim Friends Of Labour and Indian Friends Of Labour were putting on their own, invitation-only, meeting. But one of Wings’ shadowy network of sinister cyber-agents had wangled me in as a +1. After one nervy moment when an alert bouncer shouted “Hoi!” and demanded to see my card – quickly smoothed over by our insider – I was in, and pretty much the only white face in the room who wasn’t on the stage.
Sitting near the back to minimise my conspicuousness as far as possible, we surveyed the scene. We’d been warned in advance to get there early as it would be standing room only, and so it proved. I carefully counted 20 rows of 32 seats each, 640 in total. Perhaps as many as 150 more people were standing along the side and back walls.
(Several speakers from the stage would later proclaim this 800-max audience to be “at least 1200 people”. The No camp’s habit of wild exaggeraration seems impossible to shift, but as far as I’ve seen it was still by far the biggest single gathering at a No event in the entire campaign, even more remarkable as it was drawn entirely from a subsection of the community.)
I was there because Gordon Brown was due to speak, and also former Glasgow Labour grandee Mohammed Sarwar – father of Anas, now a foreign national and the current Governor of Punjab province (population 100 million) in Pakistan. But in fact Scottish Labour’s entire “A-team” was present and speaking – not just Brown but Margaret Curran, Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander, Anas Sarwar and Johann Lamont.
(Gordon Matheson was also there, but was humiliatingly reduced to giving his address after Sarwar Snr, when the event was officially over and the crowd were streaming out for the buffet dinner.)
Brown’s speech was long, heavy on anecdotes about Bono and Oprah Winfrey and how well he knew Nelson Mandela, and low on anything directly relating to the referendum. The over-riding theme was that world poverty and inequality and whatnot were bad, and that in order to be able to tackle them we had to stay in the Union because [inaudible mumble].
Speaker after speaker left out the celebrity gags but adopted the same political line. Unfairness bad, independence bad, Union good, because [SUB FILL IN CONVINCING REASON HERE]. Within the theme there were variations in style but not content. Jim Murphy rambled incoherently all over the place, sounding like nothing so much as the “Big Jock” character from Chewin’ The Fat. I’d have sworn he’d had several pints were it not for the clear diction. Margaret Curran and (especially) Johann Lamont were all but drowned out by audience chatter.
(I incredibly tentatively asked our insider if this might perhaps be down to some sort of cultural/gender thing, some kind of suppressed resistance to women in political positions, but he replied “No, they’re just really boring”. It was true enough – I’d tuned out so much during Lamont’s speech that actually in truth I can’t definitively say it was the same as the others. She might have been listing her sexual conquests or favourite flavours of ice-cream for all I picked up from the reedy drone.)
One thing, though, was very noticeable. The crowd’s response throughout was polite but muted. There were four rows of seats separated off at the front, which as far as I could tell housed the Labour apparatchiks and worthies. They roared and clapped at appropriate moments, but the rest were less impressed. From where we were sitting – about three quarters of the way back, next to the centre aisle – we couldn’t see more than about 10% of people clapping, let alone cheering, during or after the speeches.
The event’s big draw was Mohammed Sarwar, and he came on to a warm reception. The first half of his speech largely concentrated on UK aid to Pakistan, and the second half was mainly in Urdu so your guess is as good as mine. “Look after your kind” was the gist of it, according to our insider. Sarwar urged everyone in the room to marshal their friends and family to vote No, without ever (certainly in English) giving any actual reason for it. Their support was assumed, not demonstrated.
That was that. Everyone filed out for food and I made to head for the train station. I was almost at the hotel’s main door when a hand alighted on my shoulder and someone said “Stuart?”
“Uh oh, busted”, I thought, and turned to face a youthful delegate with a No Thanks badge. “I’ve been reading your tweets”, they said with a smile. We had an extended, friendly and fascinating conversation, almost all of which must be redacted to protect their identity for hopefully obvious reasons, but the upshot of it was that Labour fear the Muslim and Asian vote in Glasgow will be strongly Yes, due largely to years of diligent work by the SNP in places like Pollokshields. From what I’d seen of the crowd’s reaction, I could find no reason to doubt the sincerity of the statement.
The evening had one more twist to throw in. After a quick pint in the ornate splendour of The Counting House to kill half an hour, I got on the last train back to Bathgate. I sat in a group of four seats and the rest of the carriage quickly filled up. About 10 minutes into the journey I couldn’t help overhearing a conversation from the seats opposite in which a woman in perhaps her early 50s asked a solidly-built, slightly intimidating-looking gent in (I’d guess) his mid-40s if he knew how he’d be voting.
(They clearly knew each other, it wasn’t just a spontaneous enquiry.)
He said he was still undecided – having previously been an ardent No – largely on the basis of the currency. She said she was the same, but on account of fears about her pension. The opportunity was irresistible. I got up, crossed over and said “Really sorry to butt in, couldn’t help but overhearing, just wanted to say that maybe you might find some useful answers on those subjects in here”, and handed them each one of my few remaining WBBs.
The gruff chap said that he was done with reading stuff about the referendum, but commanded me to sit down in the seat directly across the aisle from him and have a talk. We’d been going for about a minute as I tried to reassure him about Sterling, but he was firmly of the opinion that using the pound wouldn’t be independence. Before we could get any further, two young men who’d been sitting behind me waded in.
One in particular, with a Yes sticker on his jacket, was very loud and aggressive, in that faux-friendly way that Scots sometimes adopt, which is to say that he was saying some borderline-offensive things in a matey but very insistent way. The older man’s good humour wore away fast. I urged the young lad to cool down, telling him that hectoring and haranguing people didn’t win friends or arguments, but he wouldn’t be dissuaded from telling the undecided gent that he was a “liar” and reeling off soundbite arguments full of statistics.
(In fairness he’d expressed some curious beliefs, like the population of the UK being 83 million and 80% of the Scottish workforce being employed in the public sector, but they seemed to be honest errors rather than malicious debating points.)
Swiftly the debate escalated into a full-on seven-person rammy. The two women in the opposite group rolled their eyes ruefully, I kept trying to calm the young guy down, and the older one got more and more tense and irritated. He eventually asked the young guy to move seats, but he refused. I decided I would instead, hoping it might succeed where my entreaties had been ignored, and it worked. An uneasy calm fell, and the young man fortunately got off at the next stop.
I returned to my original seat, reassuring the group that I wasn’t intending to resume the debate but just wanted to apologise for having inadvertently embroiled them in a scene that, with less restraint from the older chap, could easily have ended in a punch-up. They bore no grudges, and we talked pleasantly for a few minutes before they left one-by-one at different stops, all with a Wee Blue Book.
I reckon Pensions Lady might well be won over, and possibly her friend too. Currency Man will be a tougher win. He seemed thoroughly scunnered with the whole debate and I suspect his WBB will end up wedging a window open rather than being read. But we can only try. What definitely WON’T work is yelling at people until they want to smash your face in. And that’s a lesson we should probably all bear in mind for the next three days.
I hope you enjoyed your wee tour.
I agree that shouting doesn’t do any good, but, I’ve hear folk say they are voting No because they don’t want to loose Bargain Hunt, or that they are voting NO as they don’t like someone or other (Mainly AS).
Sometimes it is impossible not to get angry. I have managed to avoid confrontation by just walking away but on a train there is nowhere to go.
It becomes harder by the day to listen to the lies and patronising attitudes and I think overall us YES supporters have kept our cool.
An interesting adventure indeed!
Yesterday, the lady behind the counter at out local filling station told me she would be voting No because of the ‘terrible business with the Scottish hostage’.
Sometimes there aren’t enough years left in your life to convince everyone.
If you are undecided and cannot be bothered to read the Wee Blue Book, do not vote.
One of your best posts yet.
If you are undecided and can’t be bothered to read the WBB, vote YES.
Bugger, I was there and missed you.
Would have liked to have your autograph in my WBB, got Nichola’s the other day 🙂
Can I shout at the radio Stu? Can I shout at the Unionist John Beattie wheeling on Prof. Curtis to lie about the polls!
Hope you enjoy your stay!
Yes, keep the heid is definitely the mantra of the movement in these last few days. We’ve come this far because of the positive arguments for Yes. Alex repeats it often enought; a positive campaign always wins over a negative one.
Let’s hold to that formula, don’t get into argy bargy with No’s. We are winning. Let’s believe in ourselves.
You were in my neck of the woods and I didn’t know? Hell and Damnation! I wanted to go to the event in the Shawland’s Arcade but soemthing else was on
If I had known I’d have given it a dizzy
Well done for venturing into the lion’s den later 😉
Pam McMahon. You ask about the constitutional position of Scotland and England on independence. There is an excellent article by a former colleague of mine at Edinburgh University, Professor Tony Carty, and his colleague, Marianna Clyde, on the legal reality. Tony is a distinguished academic, and even if I was not a Yes voter, I – and other lawyers, past and present – would agree with him. Basically, Scotland survived the Acts and Treaty of Union. Great Britain was the product of that Union. When Scotland secedes from the Union, Britain as a constitutional entity will cease to exist. The Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (created in 1801 and modified in 1927 after Irish independence) will cease to exist: it will be the United Kingdom of ……. and Northern Ireland. England (with Wales) and Scotland will be successor states. If there is to be an rUK, it is England (with Wales) and the separate constitional entity of Northern Ireland. The legal opinion to the contrary given to the UK government by Professors Boyle and Crawford naturally gave a unionist – but flawed – perspective. There has been far too little discussion about this point.
Most of the fears Nos still have are over the pound, pensions, and increased costs all which will be reinforced by yet more lies which have come through the doors today. See picture:
link to imgur.com
“Your mortgage will go up by £1300 a year, if you vote Yes.”
That lie will convince countless people to vote No.
The BT campaign is the deliberate subversion of democracy by spreading lies. If they win, I don’t know if I could bear it.
Good point Stu, I used to me slightly more aggressive when trying to convert DK’s and NO’s, but I put that down to passion, I am much more calmer now as I think I have managed to convert 95% to YES, as the day of reckoning nears I am strangely feeling more confident that we will prevail and it will all have been worth it.
thanks for all your sterling work, I am sure if it had not been for all your efforts and everyone else connected to WOS we would not be in touching distance of victory.
Hi Stu, great u made it up here. Hope you can stay till Friday and taste the victory that is surely coming. I’m with Craig Murray on his comments on your contribution to the campaign. Extraordinary, magnificent. Everybody kept looking for the game changer and didn’t notice you were here all the time!
Welcome home son and Thanks from the heart of an auld yin.
It takes time and you sometimes have to absorb the knocks in order to convert someone
People will be geting more anxious the closer to the date of the referendum with the polls showing a 50/50 split but if you have to raise your voice to get your point across you never will.
Sorry, I forgot to say where the article by Tony Carty and Marianna Clyde can be found. Go to Lawyers for Yes and you will see it referred to on the front page.
Agreed, it does become harder every day to listen to the lies but shouting isn’t going to convince anyone.
Having said that, some of the stuff from BT supporters is getting unbearable. My Brother in Law (Big No) and I (Yes, obviously) have a bit of banter back and forward and last night (having been intrigued by the constant use of the word “Separatism” instead of “Independence” by BT campaigners, primarily Mr Darling) I asked him to define the word “Separatist”.
His reply (and this is exactly what he said);
“A hysterical tribal fascist nationalist”.
Dearie me…
I did my first canvassing event yesterday. I wasn’t confident when I started but very quickly found I could answer and counter any questions I got hit with. Most of that is down to you and your site Rev. Thank you.
In all the months I’ve been canvassing, I’ve never shouted at anyone. You don’t need to. The facts speak for themselves. Reason always prevails in the end. Unfortunately, some people are beyond the reach of reason and must be abandoned. The skill in talking to people is knowing when you’ve met such a person and then letting them go. As one of my fellow canvassers often says, “You can’t save everyone.”
“If you are undecided”????????
Are Better Together counting they undecideds, the don’t knows, those who will not vote, and even the unregistered as NO supporters. That becomes important if the Yes campaign win by a narrow majority.
Will the UK government recognise a slim Yes victory? Is this going to be 1979 all over again?
Damn it – I wanted to go to go to the Shawlands event but was out doing my bit – ie posting WBBs to a list of undecideds in East Ren – Smurf country.
Met a wee lady in her garden who looked a bit frail who wanted to vote Yes, didn’t have a postal vote, but couldn’t make it to the Polling station – immediately got a lift organised for her.
Met a man doing his garden in a big house, who looked at me in a suspicious way but when I said would you like some more info, he looked relieved so handed him a WBB plus an aye right card and he said he would look up all the web sites on it.
BTW my daughter, 35, who has never voted in her life, got registered and will either be a Yes or not vote at all, said that most of the folk in her work, who are all quite young were voting Yes so they could have a big party afterwords!
Me to friend last Thursday “have you decided how you’re going to vote?”
Friend “I dinnae ken. I’ve no really thought about it.”
Me “well, if you want answers, how about you read a copy of this wee blue book I’ve got.”
Friend “I dunno. How long does it take?”
Me “about an hour.”
Friend “ah cannae be bothered wi that!”
Me “but this is the single biggest decision you’ll ever make. Not just for you but for your kids.”
Friend “ah ken but ah cannae be bothered spendin aw that time reading.”
Difficult not to scream and shout at folk like this!!!
Two Blairs on Beattie. BBC bias being discussed.
Blair McD trying to defend BBC and Nick R. especially. Mobs attacking PQ and the polis defending it.
Blair J. calls it deflection away from true debate as they (NO) are losing. PQ not a big deal when taken in the round.
Obviously S. Cosgrove’s rant has been forgotten.
Counting House…wee bit of subliminal brand selection with it being an “Independence is no problem” Wetherspoons, either that or youre just dead tight 🙂
Glasgow is so alive and keen, almost feeling sorry for No believers who are very rarely seen if they exist at all.
It does take time to completely change a mind set over to YES. It takes some people much longer than others, which is why, after two long years, we now have a full range of personal, constitutional attitudes and opinions. It is not so much dependent on intelligence as on the strength of an individuals belief system.
For many of us it is so obvious that full independence is the best deal for Scotland. However, we often forget the confusion and crisis of confidence that many undecideds and NO’s are now experiencing. It really is a shock to the belief system that the mind has to adapt to. BT-MSM have done their utmost to stir up confusion and stall the inevitable journey from NO to YES that many people are, even two days out, still on. Some will be won over by the 18th, some will not.
For our part, it is very important not to allow our frustration get the better of us and start offending people who are in a different position from ourselves. Stay focussed, remain upbeat and friendly, keep all conversations polite, and win over as many of the remaining undecideds/NOs as you can during the next 48 hours.
Well, Stuart and Cameron too.
Discovering the audience at a Labour lecture thought speakers ‘boring’ confirms people are really listening.
It will be like living in a mausoleum after the vote …
…unless Yes, in which case Scotland wil be news a year more as we fashion the Constitution and deliberate ways forward.
Paul Dacre, supremo of the detestable Daily Mail, must be worried his estate in Scotland is soon to attract taxation.
Luckily you didn’t take walk to a certain hostelry in bathgate on Saturday night,won’t name it but it’s not far from where station used to be.my wife and I stopped off there on way home.was like stepping into a pub in Belfast,we still had our yes badges and wristbands on,and to be fair we never got hassled. Think that had more to do with us being regular patrons over the years mind you !
The yes stall on the steelyard packed up earlier than intended though,as they were getting some hassle,including from a gentleman? from the opposite ntbt stall.
Dave Braislfraud should get back to drugging cyclists instead of interfering in politics. A cheat and a hypocrite. Try the Cycling News Clinic threads for examples of his outright lies.
Nobody has yet explained how Scotland having hundreds of athletes at an Olympic games would be bad but only having a few dozen as part of the English team (and it is England, run by Sport England) is good. Maybe because it is total shite just like all their other scares and smears.
@call me dave
I was thinking on this this morning, the big point is Treasury involvement and leak, theyre trying to cover up and hope it fades away amongst all the noise…no chance.
Wee Ruthie got called out by James Cook last night on that awful BBC Debate when she tried to portray the leak as The Suns fault…no amount of her banging her hand on the table could cover her shame.
From The Bottom Of My Heart,Thank You For All The Work You Have Done.
Why do you think it is a right to convert other people from No to Yes? Why not accept that they have their views based on what they have read, seen or heard and leave it at that. Just because you think that everything written or said that opposes the Yes view is a lie, it doesn’t mean you can badger people into going to Yes. I think it is great on twitter when a Yesperate says they managed to convert someone in a shop or the street to vote yes becase I know that a proportion of them are just saying they’ll vote yes to stop you talking. Not sure what you are going to do after Thursday night when the results come in. Is this when the letters MI and the number 5 get tweeted a lot?
“Why do you think it is a right to convert other people from No to Yes?”
Because that – and vice versa – is the entire purpose of having debates at all, you idiot.
Stair: When Scotland secedes from the Union,
Strictly speaking, we cannot ‘secede.’ We’re still a separate country though held in partnership with another by treaty.
Stuart – first time post from me (better late than never!) but, as ever, spot on in your comments and advice! Like thousands of others, I have found this site not only inspirational and informative but essential viewing to counter the MSM “narrative”. Amazed at how many people have come across the WBB from all walks of like and its massive effects in shifting people towards yes. A very big thank you and hope you have some well deserved holiday planned after the 18th!
I don`t know how many of you read the Sunday Post but yesterday`s edition was truly hilarious. It started with a front page of two kilties waving a saltire and a Union flag, at the same time patronizing and nauseating, it then went on to proclaim it had no allegiance to any political party, when everyone knows its slightly to right of Attilla the Hun. The piece de resistance was a full face picture of David Cameron looking like a dead ringer for Big Brother. I`m going to frame this an hang it over the mantelpiece it will keep the kids away from the fire.
I knew you were there, I could sense it, I passed the counting house at about half past two and the throng of people supporting our cavalcade was mind blowing,
My 9 year old granddaughter managed to catch some memorable moments on my Ipad inbetween videoing the back my drivers seat, and the inside of my left ear,
But in the moments when the cacophany incredibly crescendoed amid the horn blaring and the cheering
I strated to feel something very much like an unstoppable momentum and it renewed my flagging strength and spirits,
by the time we reached Pacific Quay I had to rush down from the gridlocked road (leaving behind my poor long suffering wife to follow on with my daughter and granddaughter)to the BBC building to take in the incredible atmosphere,
That day will live with me for the rest of my life no matter what the result,
I knew I was part of something very important and realised this was in no small part down to you Rev Stewart Campbell.
I watched Tommy Sheridan talking to Andrew Neil on Sunday Politics. He was in blistering form but his best punch-line to date has to be, “The only banks closing after independence will be food banks”.
I’m sure someone will have posted the connection before me but Deutsche Bank’s former Director (from 2000-2009) is Bromsgrove Tory MP, Sajid Javid, and has been closely imbedded at the Treasury as both an Economic Secretary and a Financial Secretary. THis ex Deutsche Bank Director is also a member of Cameron & Osborne’s inner circle. It does not take a political genius to work out that Javid has arranged for this Deutsche bank intervention, considering that the spokesman in LOndon speaking to the BBC etc, was a certain Mr Bilal Hafeez, a close associate of Mr Javid, MP. Seems that big business is indeed looking after its kind. Mr Hafeez caused huge indignation and shock, on mainland Europe, by stating that ‘only Jesus Christ’ could save the eurozone’. Shocked Europeans called for him to withdraw his analogy with much ironic reference made to JC ‘cleansing his father’s house’ when he threw money lenders (biblical time bankers) from the Temple.
Thanks Rev Stu.
A fine read, and good advice at the end.
Glad to have you back home Stu.
And over 1000 comments on the last thread. The brave Lindsay and her climb , made my eyes water. Reading it again today brought the same emotions , but a real feeling of pride. What a statement the lass made and if she should read this , our thoughts are with you and hopes for your future.
As regards the shouting and arguing, i feel folk have took years of abuse by everyone connected to BT/NT/whatever and now that so many YESSERS are on show, feel they can argue the case louder. They have visible support and see their strength around them. I can’t blame them for being “over passionate” It’s been a long , hard campaign.
But we win so many over with simple facts and a smile or two. The positivity and energy draws you in. I hope we keep it like that till friday and we can all relax a little. I’ll be too drunk to care for a day or two.
So calm heads required for the last couple of days. I can do that. I believe we have won. Derek Batemen does too.
They can send all the international stars up to love bomb us. We have our own heroes. Lindsay being the latest. They make it clear which way they vote.
Patience Scotland –
Hectoring people who DK will only entrench their attitudes versus common sense.
Some are just a waste of space.
My taxi ride of last week was really infomative when the taxi driver told me he was a staunch NO – BECAUSE – Scotland did not have any Embassies, WHEN, in his 50 plus years, he had NEVER had occasion to use the facilities of any British Embassy.?
He didn`t know his Passport was processed in Belfast.
Didn`t know Scotland`s Borders and Coast Agency was Headquartered in Belfast.
Clyde Coastguard HQ – in Belfast.
He told me he was Scottish but unsurprisingly, could not show ONE document that could PROVE his assertion on being a Scot.
Among many other serial humiliations perpetrated versus Scotland – WE are fighting to re-establish our cardinal right to emancipate our IDENTITY AS A NATION AND PEOPLE.
When the taxi driver took the time to study “The Knowledge” and refuses to study “Independence”, I am afraid he is totally lost to “YES”.
I left him with the thought that – when there are more FOODBANKS than jobs, who will buy a taxi-ride.?
When ATOS sanction him on the burroo, thanks to BamCam,Clegg and Mibbeland, when FOODBANKS have flourished since 2004 under Bliar and Krash, who will supply food to his children and grandchildren.?
The solid BLANK STARE was all the answer needed.
It is scandalously frustrating when an UNINFORMED taxi driver`s vote – will negate my “YES”.
That’s the grassroots for you.
Shouting at people doesn’t help. It turns them to the other side. I have first hand knowledge of aggressive Better Together campaigners turning a previous solid no – who merely wanted confirmation on some questions – to a don’t know and now likely yes. Don’t make the same mistake!
Keep the head folks, the cooler head prevails all the time.
We have nothing to fear, they do. They have been given a view of a country dependent on handouts and suckle on Westminsters teet.
Nothing will ever be the same again, 2 million people have now had their eyes opened on the Union. Independence is coming.
It is frustrating when some of the reasons given for voting No are simply untrue – such as ‘we might lose the British bake off show’, or that we wouldn’t have any currency !!
It just proves that negative campaigning works for some people.
Especially older folks.
Years of putting Scotland down has had an effect.
Even things like ‘The news where you are’ psychologically reduces confidence.
But what I do see is that attitude is slowly fading away.
The bedrock of unionist support is older pensioners – who perhaps aren’t on the internet so much, and only get their news from traditional media.
Hopefully we have enough people with confidence to look at the facts, and see that we could do better with full powers – not be content with limited devolution.
It’s all about having the responsibility and confidence to take control of our own country.
OT is that Nick Robinson and crew hovering outside M&S Aberdeen
Rev i to have came acrosss these peeps that think shouting is the answer and it clearly isnt lets hope it all stops after thursday
Be brave Scotland, for just like Bruce at Bannockburn you also have reserve forces, the great Scottish diaspora, Scotland’s empire. Up to 50m Scot’s born and generational a world wide massive political and financial force and not for one second would we see any calamity befall Scotland. It would only require establishing The Secure Scotland Fund to be deluged by whatever was required.
It would give us all joy to be able to thwart any devious designs levelled against a Sovereign Scotland should England become vengeful towards Scotland.
I am sure it would not only be Scot’s contributing but many others would be lining up to support Scotland and tweak the tail of the English lion at the same time.
Scotland may allowed us to go but with one caveat, she insists you leave a part of your soul, so that on your passing the remainder will fly home to be whole again.
It is scandalously frustrating when an UNINFORMED taxi driver`s vote – will negate my “YES”.
And yours will negate his.
The glass is half full already – we are winning!
“Nick Robinson and crew hovering outside M&S Aberdeen”
They best not hover too much as one Aberdeen’s infamous shit-hawks may do their business overhead.
Welcome home Rev.
(btw, Yer wee counter bubble on the last post cannae cope with 4 digits!)
I learned early on that in debating with someone , “a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”
Some you win, some you don’t.
Its the deceit at the heart of Bettertogether that people find unbearable. Labour want to keep Trident and buy Trident 2 but instead of being honest and open, they try and dodge the whole teamGB WMD in Faslane farce. Everyone knows Scotland floats on oil and gas but still they lie to us over and over. Free education is the foundation of every successful country yet Westminster relentlessly attack uni and college funding and now they charge kids for everything they got for nothing.
And then there’s the NHS and this
link to mirror.co.uk
But only news for English readers. Scottish readers get told its never going to happen. Funny that.
beautifully written, humane and encouraging! OOPS! I sound like a teacher marking an essay. Don’t mean to …… but it is great to have this window into what is really happening among folk. BTW your WBB is a great help when my own words could fail. Thanks.
@Suzyq22
Friend “ah ken but ah cannae be bothered spendin aw that time reading.”
There are a couple of simple effective arguments for people who just aren’t really interested in politics.
1. Independence is good enough for every other country in the world.
2. No country that left London rule has ever asked to come back.
3. Scotland is best governed by the people who live here.
4. For Labour voters: We can get rid of the Tories once and for all. And we can vote for a REAL Scottish labour party – not one controlled from London.
MORE than 1,000 Yes supporters packed the Castlegate area of Aberdeen today as both sides gear up for the final days of campaigning.
Flags, chants and songs featured throughout the day, with kids, families and even dogs turning out in support of a breakaway.
It followed similar events in Glasgow and Inverness over the weekend.
Today’s event organiser, Scott Mackenzie, 28, said he was overwhelmed by the turnout.
His first tweet was sent out on Monday, with the support avalanching during the week.
The dad-of-three of Northfield brought two of his kids, Finlay, six, and Emily, 12, adding: “This is for them, for their future.”
—————-
link to eveningexpress.co.uk
Slightly O/T
You mentioned Kevin McKenna, so him on Sunday politics, l think he is one of the commentators around.
link to facebook.com
Danny Cox, Head of Financial Planning at Hargreaves Lansdown explaining just how hard BettertogetherBBC etc are prepared to lie to Scotland but in Bristol, its a very different approach to Scottish democracy
Sorry missed out the word best. 🙂
I don’t know about everyone else, but Thursday cannot come quickly enough for me. I feel emotionally drained.
@westie7
“OT is that Nick Robinson and crew hovering outside M&S Aberdeen”
He is looking for new drawers after he shat his the other day.
Cameron is in aberdeen today, so that’ll explain Robinson, the loyal lapdog of the Establishment.
Indeed James, we have many friends, there is nothing to fear from thier last bitter attempts to bring us to heel. It’s pure undiluted 100% arrogance that they are running thier campaign on.
James Dow.
Superb observation my friend. We are not alone. There are millions of Scots out there. We have their support. So much for a wee backwater on the edge of Northern Europe. Thanks for the reminder James.
Given the Home Office ‘Go Home’ vans and campaign, the constant reference to ‘foreigners’, the rise of UKIP and Better Together’s bedmates such as the BNP, Britain First and the like I’m surprised that any ‘ethnic minority’ or minority such as Polish Scots would entertain saying ‘No Thanks’.
It seems akin to asking to be demonised.
Every ‘Yes’ voter I know welcomes people of all nationalities, enthnicities and indeed religions
to contribute to Scotland.
PS: What was Stuart Cosgrove’s rant?
The thing I find inconceivable are the people all over my Facebook who just want it all to go away and be over. Up there in Scotland you finally have a chance at real change and it seems a lot of people would really just rather go back to posting about their babies and their dogs.
I guess a lot of people would rather give politics the least amount of attention they can get away with. And I think some people find all the crowds and the campaigning intimidating.
It’s frustrating when people cling to opinions that you can’t understand at all, but Stuart is right, shouting louder isn’t the way to change people’s minds.
Win or lose not many folk if any have done more for the independence cause than Stu and the Wings site.
I would like to thank all who have given up their time and energy over the last months and years to try and give Scotland back it’s righful place in the world.
We have climbed to the mountain top and can now see the promised land while the no campaign have blundered around in the gutter.
It’s now up to the people and I think they will chose hope over fear and give us back our country.
Philosophically speaking, is there an argument against independence for any country?
I find that question makes people think.
There is a quote from Nelson Mandela that I like and Bella had it on their website for a while, let your choices reflect your hopes not your fears.
As an Aussie wishing you all the best with the YES vote.
Wow I hope you win, we have a Pommy PM going cheap, would you like him back.
Sugar will attract more flies than vinegar.
Re. Scots Asians. I have a Q&A this evening, in the kitchen of a local curry house. Six staff, 4 for Yes (2 wavering) and 2 for Naw. I left them with a couple of WBB, last week, so they will hopefully not need too much reassurance. I also have follow-ups with three Asian Scots businessmen, who I’ve been encourage to think Yes for some months now. These are all people who are genuinely looking to do what is best for Scotland.
If Naw’s last gasp is to call on the descendants of a continent that was rapped by the East India Company and the British Empire, then all I can say is they are doomed. Doomed I tell yah. 😉
link to en.wikipedia.org
Got my reply back from the BBC complaints.
Alex Salmond had not answered Robinson’s question and editorial guidelines not broken. It’s exactly what I expected.
IMO Mr Salmond DID answer the question as he was simply pointing out that the dire “claims” (as reported by the BBC) of the business leaders regarding jobs and tax were not warranted. That IS connected to a question of trust and who to listen to.
If Robinson had ceased heckling, the First Minister could have expanded on it so the BBC’s Political Editor could have understood it.
Heard a cracker today! Someone is voting “No” because he paid £500 for a personalised number plate, and he’s not sure if he’ll still be able to use it after independence!
@ Stair Crawford and Boyle asserted that Scotland was “extinguished” in 1707 and if accepted, everything flows from that ie rUK is the Successor State.
I suspect ScotGov are perfectly aware of this and keeping it up their sleeves for the dealing to come.
I was told on Saturday by a BT person who obviously has no idea what a food bank is that at least they are helping stop the waste from supermarkets. I didn’t bother to waste my breath! Maybe a visit to a local food bank would help this person understand that it’s not fresh produce they stock but dried goods, tins and things that will keep. Blissful ignorance of your fellow human beings’ struggles to feed themselves must be a wonderful thing!
THE WORLD IS WATCHING AND IT SAYS “YES”.
Unfortunately I was working in Inverness yesterday so could not be at the rally at PQ (even tho I stay a stones throw away) I did tho watch the live feed sitting with 3 oaps who watched with me. They loved it.
What really inspired me was the comments. People from all over the world telling us all “were watching from Italy, go scotland go”. Or other comments similar from Australia, South America and so on.
The glims outside we had on how other people in other nations see this is inspiring and gives me a confidence that scotland as an independent country will be welcomed into the world with open arms.
And not only that – the fairer country we will make with be infectious and in 500 years the history will remember it started here.
This will be added along with graham bell, Fleming, enlightenment and all the other great things scotland gave to the world.
I guess what am trying to say is – be proud, a yes vote is real history being made the will echo forever on a world scale.
It’s getting too close for this to be any use for Cameron before the ref but who knows the fallout afterwards , also some good analysis and character observation for those interested.
link to hat4uk.wordpress.com
I was behind a motor the other day with the reg YE 55 …
The last three dots being letters.
Surely there must be registered a YE 55 ERS.
I’d happily pay good money for that one.
I was in Buchanan street on Saturday afternoon, There was a good crowd around the YES and LFI stalls at the top of the street, and I passed a lot of people wearing YES badges as I walked down towards Princes Square
I didn’t know that Jo Lamont and the hereditary MP for Glasgow, Mr Sarwar, were also in Buchanan street until I was standing almost next to them. They and their small team were trying to hand out leaflets.
I say trying because in the few minutes I stood there the majority of passers by were either politely declining or, more frequently, happily delaring that they will be voting yes.
Watching the body language of the 2 MSPs and their very small team of young leafleters was interesting. None looked at all happy, some looked very unhappy indeed. I almost felt sorry for them until I remembered WHY they are losing.
I took the opportunity to speak to Joanne Lamont, as nobody else was. I was polite and friendly, but when I said that “Change is in the air, Can’t you feel it too?” Her facial expression said it all. She KNOWS the game is up, and she is not alone.
Murray McCallum – I got my reply from the BBC today. Same twaddle as you got.
Walked past the No stall on Sauchiehall Street today. “Intimidation” is their word of the day. It’s all that Alex Salmond, you know.
On the plus side, wee Doogie Alexander is looking awfy nervous these days…
Sorry, raped by the East India Company
Just seen this on the BBC News website. “A group of young shipbuilders have said they are “gravely concerned” about the future of the industry if Scotland becomes independent.
The letter to First Minister Alex Salmond was signed by 20 workers.”
20 workers? Hardly the majority of the workforce.
Being part of the UK has seen shipbuilding employment slashed from 35,000 in 1979 to barely a few thousand today.
But don’t worry ‘We are Better Together’ – Yeah right!
Call me paranoid but one of Robinson’s party just looks like private security to me. Maybe he should be looking after Willie young instead 😉
When have the BBC ever upheld a complaint? I doubt they would uphold one about Savile much less one regarding a current “star” reporter.
The BBC considers itself above the law (and morals). It is unlikely to change. If we vote Yes the rUK will still have to put up with its failings.
Great blog Stu! I was teary reading it in bits just imagining what the atmosphere was like in Glasgow and having seen the photos I wish I had been there.
Makes you wonder if some No tactics would be to pose as Yes voters to come across aggressive but equally as possible is some so extreme in their want for Independence can’t listen to reason and those we can do without.
You will go down in history for your guts and determination to get facts out there Stu even through so much abuse and harrassment from so many directions. I think the massive team of detectives and folk with amazing knowledge supporting Wings and yourself for me is testimony of what Scotland can achieve! This movement post Yes will be written into the history books for future generations to read and be proud of! I don’t think I’m alone in bursting with pride for my fellow Scots and what our movement has done for other parts of UK as well as around the world. Things are changing whatever the result, its long overdue in the corrupt world of politics and media.
The buzz is amazing, it’s so exciting, make the most of it, people, we’ll never see this likes of this again.
Kenny
They will be accusing the voters of intimidating them with all those X’s in boxes next.
Great to hear you’re back home for the best week in Scotland’s long history. You can join the International Press!Enjoyed your report on the “closed shop” Labour meeting. Sounds like Margaret Curran and Johann Lamont didn’t make much impression. Be interesting to hear how the Asian community vote.
Totally agree about not getting shouty. Undecideds are undecided because they are unsure about something (s). As Margo said, we need to start from where people currently are, and take them with us.
Thank you Stair for your very helpful posts. I deduce from these and your references that Scotland has the same constitutional rights to be a successor state as the rest of the remaining UK after independence. I would dearly like to know why the Yes campaign has not pushed the position that Scotland has as much right to be a successor state as rUK.
Grouse Beater. With great respect, your suggestion that Scotland strictly cannot secede from the Union is incorrect. Although denied and ignored by generations of Scottish lawyers – except for the great Lord Cooper in 1953 – the basic constitutional principle in Scotland is the sovereign will of the people of Scotland.
That was asserted by many of us who were involved in the Scottish Constitutional Convention, and was the basis of the Claim of Right (I should know, I helped to write it) which was signed by all the delegates to the Convention, including many unwitting Labour MPs, in March 1989.
That constitutional principle is the ‘Grundnorm”- the Ground Rule – of the Scottish State. This is a concept which many lawyers will remember from their jurisprudence lectures on the great legal philosopher, Hans Kelsen. When the people of Scotland vote Yes, that outcome will be the result of the application of this principle.
In effect, the Grundnorm, currently claimed to be at Westminster, will decisively shift North – even faster than Stu! On Independence Day, Scotland will then – whether expressly or by necessary implication, secede from the Treaty of Union.
As a 66 year old lawyer and pensioner, I feel nothing except exhilaration at the prospect of legal theory being made real in my own country! I have even begun to wonder, impishly, if the word. Grundnorm – which is German but so thoroughly Scots-sounding – was taken there by 16th Century Scottish Hanseatic traders.
Pam: I would dearly like to know why the Yes campaign has not pushed the position that Scotland has as much right to be a successor state as rUK.
Because it’s one best exploited during the negotiation process.
Four sleeps to go!
Three for Natasha, of course!
Pam McMahon
I wouldn’t have thought that constitutional legalese is a pressing matter for many. I expect the issue will be dealt with after a Yes vote, as it is only a hypothetical scenario until then.
No way, The Rev was within a mile of ma hoose and I didnae know!!
Glad your up here to soak up the atmosphere, Glasgow is buzzing – at the Yes shop yesterday probably shifted close to a hundred WBBs and chatted to dozens of folk who were reporting most of their family and friends voting Yes too. Most cars passing were tootin and giving a thumbs up, easily outnumbered the No shouting ones by 10 to 1. Big push the next few days folks, im confident its going to happen for us!
@tartanarse
YE55ERS
Gordon Brown
Bono and Oprah Winfrey
hes in-sane
@Grouse Beater – I agree about the successor state argument. If they had got involved in that-it would be a sideshow.
Much better to leave it for the negotiations – if a Yes.(That’s my superstitious side talking.)
Just had Jim Sillars down our street, ranting from a loudspeaker bus about getting the English out.
My wife’s taken down out YES posters from the windows.
We could do with less “anti-something” and more “yes ‘cos ot’s better”
“Just had Jim Sillars down our street, ranting from a loudspeaker bus about getting the English out.”
That sounds extraordinary. What was said exactly?
Stair: whether expressly or by necessary implication, secede from the Treaty of Union.
You share the same name as a certain Secretary of State at the time of the Glencoe massacre, John Dalrymple, First Earl of Stair.
I understand what you say, lawyer’s convoluted jargon and mysticism aside, but if we retain the Queen, how can it be ‘seceding’?
Withdrawing from a treaty is a more accurate description, a legal withdrawal demanded by the majority will of the people.
I hold onto that notion because ‘secede’ has emotive and pejorative connotations. Perhaps this is the difference between a writer and a lawyer.
That aside, I welcome you as a friend to the great and just cause of our unjustly delayed self-determination.
I have been preaching this to a few people of late. If you have the argument use it. If you have the answer give it. A man (or woman) that you shout at isn’t going to be favourable to your side. There are a number of online forums where the debate has got heated and the more heated it gets the more people default to fallback positions. I’m reminded that somebody I know became a Yes from a firm (I hate AS type) No because they went to the Better together website and asked questions. BTs response was to ban them!
It’s especially true with older people. They want reassurance and no matter how the vote goes, the world is uncertain. Just look at phones 4U. It’s the first business not to have faced imminent collapse due to Scottish independence since January.
What we have to get over is that there is no certainty in the current order. According to Robert Peston currency flight out of the UK was something like £26 billion in July and £27 billion in August. Nowt to do with Scotland govnor. There may be a rollercoaster ride coming along for Sterling anyway.
It is easier to get carried away in campaigning but the target is to get people to vote Yes. And I think that we will prevail if we all work hard right up until polling day and get the vote out to the polling stations.
Great to meet you on the Airdrie train Stuart. My selfish didn’t save, which peer me off no end!
Labour now admitting – years late – the voter does really want change – therefore, and here’s the twisted logic, they are recommending a No vote.
They lie still, promoting brazen falsehoods in order to spread doubt and fear, to control.
I despise the lot of them.
Re. hypothetical scenarios. How do Labour plan on keeping their indyref promises to protect the Scottish NHS, in the event of a Naw vote. Are they planning on breaking the TTIP, once it is fully implemented? That won’t do the UK plc much good, will it?
Front page of the Aberdeen EE has a photo of the rally at the Castlegate yesterday. I popped out to buy a copy for posterity and the wifie behind the counter looks at the photo and comes out with ‘Oh am just nae sure, up and doon, this way and that’.
So happened I had a WBB plus an ‘AYE’ badge in mah pocket from yesterday. Need I say more? Fly WBB, fly!
James Dow
That put a smile on my face, had a thought of Scotland being like the bailey family at the end of ” It’s a wonderful life ” when the whole town turn up with loads of money to help out!
With respect, Carty and Clyde do NOT say that Scotland would be seceding from the UK. Read the article. It is Crawford and Boyle who say that.
link to lawyersforyes.org
O/T
There are only 17 hours remaining to catch your signed limited edition HARDBACK Wee Blue Book and other mementoes of this unique historical event.
link to indiegogo.com
Here’s an apparently facile question, which I’ve never had an answer to, but it is one that has more important cultural underlying reasons for asking it in the first place.
IN THE EVENT OF A NO VOTE, WHAT WILL BE THE NATIONAL ANTHEM?
I’d be really obliged if anyone can provide a serious answer.
I can just see all these kilt-wearing no-voting rugger types at a rugby metch, ‘oh flower of Scotland…..’?
O/t
Some truths about deutsche bank..
link to zerohedge.com
@CameronB
Last week we were canvassing an outer estate here in Dundee and arriving very early due to the bus I popped into the takeaway for a bite. They had Yes posters in the windows and on the front of the counter and the guy behind it, Asian, noted my badges and asked if we were here for canvassing and I replied yes. We then had a very good conversation. His family also owns the convenience shop/sub PO next door and other establishments dotted about and are solidly Yes. He mentioned his chef was undecided so I offered a WBB 😉
After we finished canvassing he came out most eager for the sign truck when it returned to park out front so he and his staff could get a photo in front of it for the facebook page of the business. All us canvassers did so too.
In conversation he said even if the Yes posters caused people to go elsewhere he thought the issue too important to not take a stand on. He also knows the area, our canvass was very positive for Yes.
Pam McMahon. I think the reason why the Yes campaign has not pushed what is obviously the case – that not only Great Britain but also the Union itself is dissolved by the end of the Treaty of Union – is that not enough lawyers have come forward to argue the case.
It is like the argument about Scotland having to apply for membership of the European Union. The answer to that has long been in plain sight, but it took Professor Seonadh Doiglas Scott, the Professor of European Law at Oxford University, to rip apart the mistaken arguments of the Unionist Professors Boyle and Crawford, in their supposedly impartial advice to the UK Government. Mistaken because heir argument was grounded in international, rather than European law.
As she explained a few months ago – in a brilliant article which (apart from the useful assistance of the new Commission President, Mr. Junker) single-handedly destroyed the nonsensical arguments that Scotland would be thrown out of the EU and have to re-apply – Scotland is already part of Europe; there is no automatic expulsion rule in European law; Scottish citizens are already European Citizens under EU law; after independence they will remain UK Citizens (the UK Government has already said so); as such, under Article 20 of the Treaty on the Formation of the European Union, they will remain European citizens, with all the rights and obligations under EU law; and after independence Scotland will be admitted to full membership of the EU by Treaty Amendment under Article 49 of the main Treaty of the European Union (the so-called ‘internal’ enlargement).
That argument is obvious to any European lawyer, yet it took until a few short weeks ago for it to permeate Scottish political consciousness. We have been told the opposite for so long that it is simply taken as gospel!
The argument about Scotland’s constitutional status is like that. Lawyers, generally, are not creative people. Ideas that might lead to a different perspective are not encouraged. It is not simply that they prefer the status quo: it is that most of them have been trained simply to learn rules, and then obeying them, without question . They will be the last profession to understand that Scotland on independence will have the same constitutional status as England.
Has Cameron said anything of interest today?
More on Deutsche Bank.
Then of course there were the sovereign bailouts. I wonder how many people realize that the money provided to Greece and other distressed sovereign states by the EU and the IMF went not to rebuild those economies but to make good creditors, including (of course) Deutsche Bank? The real bailout in the Eurozone was of banks, not sovereigns.
link to forbes.com
BTW Stu if you were up here all the time you would not have had time to both run Wings and produce the WBB. The energy would have sucked you personally into the campaign and you would have been roped into doing speaking stints etc. Ask Craig Murray how exhausting that has been (though he was ill through much of it).
You being somewhat insulated down in Bath has in fact been genius in allowing you the distance not to be sucked in like that.
Hi All,
I don’t post very often and this is O/T but I emailed the Electoral Commission ealier regarding the use of pens when voting on Thursday. This is their response:
“You may use a pen if you prefer in the upcoming Scottish Independence referendum. Any colour is also allowed as long as it is clear and visible. Furthermore, I advise you to be wary of smudging as it could spoil your ballot paper.”
I thought that it was very good advice to not shout at anyone which is the reason I have not canvassed. I am hot tempered and now also deaf in one ear. I miss hear what people are saying and none of this makes for a good canvasser. I have nothing but admiration for those who have taken on the job and have done it so well. Hopefully yesterday we made our first convert, my Sister in Law who is Thai, has lived here now for ten years was saying she did not know how to vote. We know she is not a British Citizen and she confirmed she had no confidence in passing the Citizen test. Hubby said if you vote YES you will become a Scottish Citizen and not have to spend the money that Westminster want of you. So we sent the information to the Brother, we may get two out of this.
@ muttley79, this’ll buck you up!
link to youtube.com
link to hebrides-news.com
@HandandShrimp
“Has Cameron said anything of interest today?”
“Goodbye, I am off back to London, never to set foot in Scotland again”.
Muscleguy
As a biologist, would you agree that evolutionary trends favour Yes? 🙂
HandandShrimp says: “Has Cameron said anything of interest today?”
Has he arrived yet?
I think Cameron has been and gone, there is something in the Evening Express about him but I can’t bring myself to read it.
O/T
News out this morning that Hurricane Energy is now estimating 20,000 barrel/day from their Lancaster well, West of Shetland.
This is a new type of reservoir – fractured basement rock, that was previously considered uncommercial in Scottish waters.
This result, using modern horizontal wells and seismic positioning, has “blown away expectations !!
Early production is possible.
Similar geology stretches all the way down the West coast, and this result greatly increases the potential for a whole new oil province.
This is a HUGELY significant result for West coast oil.
Waiting for the BBC report that will no doubt be along any minute.
The BBC are reporting that this will be David Cameron’s final visit, perhaps we should make it his very last visit. Vote YES.
Being outwith Scotland just now, I’m quite envious of all the fun you seem to be having, keep up the good work!
I came to this site having wanted Independence for 50 years. I was very low and all my friends and the village I live in, Strathmiglo, was full of Conseratives/Libdem. I was rounded on in the pub for having the audacity to say I was voting Yes! I had answers but not on the tip of my tongue.
However I came across Wings and started reading and eventually started commenting. I’ve made a great friend through Wings at a Wingers night out and we went to the BBC Demo together.
Reading Wings has been like doing a course in Politics and I bookmarked, took photos of links which I have used on Facebook and got the confidence I needed to stand up to the No people in my village. Strath has lots of YES signs now ( not my doing but YES Cupar,s ) I’ve been helping them.
I am so grateful Stu for all your hardwork. In fact I know that Scotland will be too. THANKS!
link to theguardian.com Now they’re reduced to this diversion when what’s really happening is…
James Dow
You are correct that the Scottish diaspora are looking after us. At a lunch yesterday in Edinburgh I met two Americans who have been appointed International Observers for the referendum.
Frequent visitors to Scotland they were returning for a holiday. They had heard of a call for International Observers and answered it. The call came from the St Andrew Society in the US.
The EC have allocated them polling stations for the day. I suspect there will be an awful lot more of them.
That news cheered me up. I gave them a Wee Blue Book for background reading – but they’d already read it online!
We have many friends out there.
I am watching from NYC and deeply appreciate the information on this wonderful blog.
Our Media is the same brainwashing enterprise as yours and has mostly suppressed news from Scotland. However,
Last night on HBO,John Oliver who is a very popular English born comedian, devoted most his show to a strongly YES account of what is happening in Scotland right now. It was amusing (the thistle and the unicorn, for example) and very stirring as he concluded with a large contingent of bagpipers loud and glorious!
Good luck, Scotland. Many American hearts beat with you.
Hope over fear. As John Oliver said you know what No looks like as you have endured it for centuries. Choose hope.
Re heedtracker @ 3.01p.m.
Da iawn, Rhys – good on yer Rhys!
Rhyddid i Gymru – Hailsa Alba!
I sense that we are all a bit battle weary, mind you it’s no a surprise after last weeks total an utter garbage. If they hope to batter me into submission wae a the lies and crap that they dish oot. they can think again. I was always taught to stand up to bullies, and it’s not in the nature of the Scots ( not proud scots but} to give in. The usual response to threat is a quite aw aye! and then the sleeves get rolled up and we get on with sorting them out in our quiet way. Maybe sometimes no sae quiet that depends on who is doing the bullying.
We are going to win this, I feel it deep down, and all around it’s in the air. I have no doubt about it. I’m kinda like Luigi a glass half full kinda person.
I know we are all getting a bit nervous, it’s a big moment reversing 300 odd years of history, but grab it with both hands for all of us to make our beloved Scotland a better and fairer place to live. Onwards and upwards folks.
SAOR ALBA
@heedtracker
I think I need speed to buck me up! 😀
So folks, we have only around 65-70 hours until the polls open (taking out those who have already voted via postal votes).
Poor Cameron Brodie. He thinks that the political and legal status of Scotland is “constitutional legalese’. With very great respect, what arrogant and ignorant nonsense!
I am afraid this is typical of the arguments one hears from people who know little or nothing about the law, the central significance of a fair and impartial legal system, and the critical importance of its constitutional underpinning.
I predict that the constitutional status of Scotland will become one of the key issues after the people of Scotland vote Yes. Mr. Brodie will then discover his mistake – just like the sceptics who bleated on about Scotland being thrown out of the EU whilst dismissing the actual law on the subject as mere ‘legalese’.
Wake up, and put your thinking cap on, Mr. Brodie. I know we have all done so much thinking already, but there is a lot more to be done!
Meet “Maximus” the new ATOS.
link to tompride.wordpress.com
a no vote will see them come to you somewhere soon.
Welcome home Stu, home to the land of great humour, love, caring, fairness and HOPE for a better future. It sounds like you had a fantastic day yesterday, despite the young “willnae shut up” individual on the train home.
I have a few links that I want to put up to keep everyone’s spirits, NON alcoholic spirits that is, up, but it may take a couple of posts though. 😛
Here’s a wee song for folks to sing the next time they go to ASDA.
link to tinyurl.com
Everyone who was IN the YES convoy from Stirling yesterday or witnessed it may recognise this wee video. 😉
link to tinyurl.com
I think it was Douglas Alexander MP who said recently that the referendum debate is dividing Scotland.
I agree with him – except to say that the division
is between those who ‘get it’ and those who don’t.
Unionists are walking backwards towards a cliff edge
while bowing in adoration to their Imperial Masters.
Only a Yes can save them.
There’s irony for you.
Jeremy Vine
tommy sheridan roasts lord foulkes
link to bbc.co.uk
This comment business is so difficult. You never know where your aging fingers are going. In my previous comments about Scotland’s entry to the European Union, which I have just re-read, I should have said Article 48, and not Article 49 of the Treaty on European Union. Article 48 is the one that deals with internal enlargement, and is the one that applies to Scotland. Article 49 is about an application, and is of no relevance.
With very great respect, what arrogant and ignorant nonsense! </I.
Respect?
Do you have a mirror? Take a look in it if you want to see the face of arrogance. How many intending to vote Yes, give a stuff about legal formalities? How many of the new registrations? These are people I suspect will be voting for change and hope, not matters which are largely remote and uninterpretable to them.
Who needs “news” and “events” filtered through mainstream media when this sort of material is available? : link to new.livestream.com
Democracy in action.
Sorry, unpenetarable to them.
I really worry about some of the more aggressive and persistent people on our side. I hear over and over people saying they’ve “converted” people – often strangers on doorsteps. That doesn’t happen, and if it does it means the person is so easily swung they’ll swing back the first BT person they see! People are converted by lots of conversations with a range of people, especially ones they respect. They will more likely be put off by aggressive or in-yer-face people on doorsteps, or say yes to get rid of them, or out of politeness.
One other thing is, there are some people who will never be converted and those people need a totally different approach, especially the older generation. I met a lovely old soldier at the flash mob last week who looked genuinely sad and upset by what he was seeing. He’d fought for Britain and was scared about independence. Telling someone like him, ‘your pension is OK’ or urging him to read a WBB would be as patronising to him as those telling us we’ve not thought it through is to us. And a guy like that doesn’t deserve to be patronised.
For me, I think the time for conversions is over unless you meet someone who is genuinely undecided or soft no and asking questions. For those who’ve thought it through, discussed it and are still on the No side the time is more for respecting that now, shaking hands and – for people who are genuinely scared – trying to re-assure them.
I also saw some utter eejit in Edinburgh on Thursday bawling and swearing at Better Together campaigners outside Haymarket. That kind of behaviour WILL win people over – to the no side.
@ James Dow
How about a new Ethical BoS funded from all over the world, which could be, not that we may need one, lender of last resort?
New name – Alba Bank?
Any suggestions?
Thanks Stu, Haste ye back. Yer no awa to bide awa, yer no awa to leave us.
Thanks a Billion. You are a hero. Come back for the Party. Guest of honour.
@paul gerard mccormack
Yes or No, our national anthem is dead.
A new Scotland beckons.
I am going to stop following the national team if it’s a no vote. I am not standing next to people singing flower of scotland who voted no. The country will be divided very harshly in a no vote. But Westminster fucking us over will bring these people to see sense.
The end is nigh, know that much.
Stair: the central significance of a fair and impartial legal system, and the critical importance of its constitutional underpinning.
The same that has kept Scotland docile and subservient.
I predict that the constitutional status of Scotland will become one of the key issues after the people of Scotland vote Yes.
An easy prediction. I am certain it will, as Right-wing politicians of all persuasions claim a modest Yes vote null and void in the ‘interest of the United Kingdom.’
If I were you, I’d not be so arrogant as assume the task of protecting the rights of Scottish citizens in the event of attack will be luxuriously high in a new Scotland.
@cath
I agree with you. However, unfortunately there will be dirty tricks being played. This happens in politics, and it will be happening until campaigning ends.
If we lose this, the BBC takes the blame, squarely.
If we win this, Wings Over Scotland will be what swung it.
One of the many NO voters who moved to YES who I worked with closely wouldn`t shut up about independence but like I said to others he is young and fired up. That along with the BT lies and downright BS they come out with it`s no wonder folk get carried away with themselves. A wee quiet word in their ear to say about how best to get your message across is usually all that is needed.
In Glasgow city centre there and next to a NO stall was a lone woman wearing a YES badge commanding a small crowd of listeners. There was no one at the NO stall.
Final few days, got the week off to join the campaign for the final push.
Correction: If I were you, I’d not be so arrogant as assume the task of protecting the rights of Scottish citizens in the event of attack will afford fees luxuriously high in a new Scotland.
Stair, what you really need to explain is why the law and its practitioners have been so low-key if not inactive all these years arguing the case for regaining sovereignty.
Indeed, why is it Scottish Law has been assailed by English Law over the last years with only a few cries of protest.
Cameron B Brodie No it is not a “hypothetical scenario” It is the basis and status upon which an independent Scotland is able to negotiate it’s position. Is it an independent nation, and always has been? Does it have the same rights and responsibilities as the remaiander of the UK? So, why is it not a successor state, in the same way as the remaining UK? I think this is really important and not to be left to post-referendum wrangling where an independent Scotland is seen as the non-successor state and left in a weakened position,
Cynical Highlander at 2.37.
Thanks for that, so it does exist. I’m going to have to write to the Weirs for that one I think!!!!
Dear Reverend Campbell,
I have read many of your postings and have been impressed by your eloquence despite your argument being, understandably, one-sided. However, in this post, you appear to have departed into ramblings and supposition.
I wonder how you would have reported; “One [person]in particular, with a Yes sticker on his jacket, was very loud and aggressive, in that faux-friendly way that Scots sometimes adopt, which is to say that he was saying some borderline-offensive things in a matey but very insistent way.”, had it been someone with an opinion differing to your own. I would suggest that it might have been more along the lines of “an obnoxious No voter became extremely aggressive butting into the conversation uninvited. The passengers felt very intimidated.”
I am please to see you admit that his behaviour was unacceptable but disappointed that you feel that because he may have damaged your cause and not due to concern for the members of the public involved.
“as to the UK’s increasing move to the right, towards a government, authoritarian, centralised, ruled by market forces and out of touch with an increasingly alienated society.” If you replace the words “as to the UK’s increasing move to the right” with “The EU’s move” and delete “ruled by market forces”, the quotation then reads;
“The EU’s move towards a government, authoritarian, centralised and out of touch with an increasingly alienated society.”
This is where democracy is being taken from the people. Mr. Salmond talks of giving power to the people but is promising to refuse us a vote on the EU.
Well the bit about power to the people is a little untrue, that is how it stated, then there was talk about the Scottish Government gaining control over the “levers of power” and now the mask has dropped, totally, and they speak of gaining power for the Scottish Parliament.
When I was growing up, we had a Town Council and a National Government. Major defence of the realm and international issues were dealt with centrally and parochial issues were handled locally. Unfortunately, now wee have all levels of British Government rubber-stamping, (and often gold-plating), European Law and, as you say, centralising decision-making. The Scottish Government is much more culpable on this charge than is Westminster – State Police, centrally controlled Fire & Rescue and, shortly, Criminal Justice being brought under political control rather than being administered locally.
Whatever your dreams and the promises that we have been given, on past form, it would appear that the citizens of the country cannot expect more control in an independent Scotland.
“I am please to see you admit that his behaviour was unacceptable but disappointed that you feel that because he may have damaged your cause and not due to concern for the members of the public involved.”
The member of the public concerned was well able to look after himself. It would have been far worse if the loud young man had been picking on someone more vulnerable, but he wasn’t. Had the undecided gentleman lost his temper, the youth would, I fear, have taken a significant battering, and have brought it entirely upon himself.
When I was a wee lad out for a walk in the local woods with my dad I came to a halt and wouldn’t go any further as I saw in front of us a huge, scarey, black, slimey, monster with waving tentacles.
My dad told me not to be scared and said that if we went towards it it would get smaller and smaller.
We moved towards it and sure enough it did get smaller.
It was just one of those fat black snails that you see in the grass.
It’s the same with the Unionists and the British Establishment; the closer we get to them the less and less scarey they become until they are to be seen for what they really are: slow moving, creeping beasts that live off the detritus of the forest and are not scarey at all.
We could have stood on it if we wished, but that would just have been cruel. We decided to ignore it and leave it to get on with its life, and we continued on our own way.
Cath: I also saw some utter eejit in Edinburgh on Thursday bawling and swearing at Better Together campaigners outside Haymarket
A No win kills hope.
I’d scream and shout and bawl too if told Scotland was part of England – get used to it.
Cameron Brodie. The word is impenetrable. And the idea of the popular will being sovereign is obvious to virtually anybody.
Impenetrable? I think not. It is exactly what the people of Scotland have woken up to.
Furthermore, the importance of this simple idea being constitutionally valid can be seen by contrasting the Scottish situation with that of Catalonia. People there want a referendum to express their popular will, but are told by the Government of Spain that it is against the constitution.
So less journalist-style platitudes, please.
My suspicion antennae are trembling – that doesn’t sound as if it was written by Rev Stu. Oh, no texical analysis – just a different note. I hope Stu was discovering what it’s like to be one of us. Pavement soldiers.
@ heed tracker
As a pensioner, why do I find the statement by Danny Cox, head of Financial Planning, regarding Pensions etc, more reassuring than most of what I have heard from the YES campaign over the last two years, and I am a YES voter.
Is it because he puts a timescale on it, or just the independent statement of facts that is so convincing.
There are very many undecided Pensioners out there who would be YES if they heard this.
Only had one bad encounter in the neighbourhood. Everyone else is civil and respectful. Enthusiastic exchanging of views.
The claims of one Scottish individual, who didn’t have internet connection.
Scotland had always been and would always be in poverty. They were a country of slum dwellers. There was no income from Oil. No children were hungry they were all fed, slum dwellers. Alex Salmond had done nothing for fishermen. (They didn’t overfishing the seas and make £Millions) Alex Salmond got two salaries one from Westminster. The YES campaign was anti-English. They would not accept any other facts, and proceeded to give a Nazi salute. Quite aggressive.
Seems you had quite a day, Stuart. Welcome back to West Lothian!
Stair: It is exactly what the people of Scotland have woken up to.
And as I state a few posts ago, lawyers too.
The history of Scottish lawyers conniving with the emissaries of England’s interests is littered with lickspittle turncoats and money grabbers.
Some humility on that score would not be wasted.
@ kendomacaroonbar 2:49pm – Thanks Ken, I have just popped for a sew on Wings badge.
Pam McMahon
I think this is really important and not to be left to post-referendum wrangling where an independent Scotland is seen as the non-successor state and left in a weakened position
Is there not something we will need to achieve before any of this becomes relevant? Such as gaining independence?
If a thing which might happen, has not yet happen, it is only one of a number of possible outcomes. In the absence of dependable data (vote count), the future constitutional status of iScotland is a hypothetical matter, IMHO.
@Archie
Thank you Sir !
Looking at the list of speakers for “Artists for AYE” Stu I think that explains why the place was stowed out. Where ever these speakers go, and it is not just them by the way, the events are stowed out. In fact I remember reading tweets recently where events were delayed because there were so many people wanting to get in that the organisers were asking people who were firmly YES supporters to LEAVE so that MORE undecideds could get in to listen. I do not remember ever hearing about that happening to a NO event, except maybe the one you *ahem* attended last night! 😛
I now have to report that we are definitively LOSING the oil and gas argument folks. Unfortunately, off the West coast of Scotland NOTHING is happening and absolutely NOTHING has been found. 😉
link to oilandgaspeople.com
Here’s a wee video of Lindsay at yesterday’s *ahem* barricading of the BBC. Well at least that is whatr wee Ruthie Davidson called it on last night’s debate. 😀
link to tinyurl.com
Finally, it appears that he has gone off on one again. By “he” I am off course referring to the Artist Taxi Driver (ATD).
link to tinyurl.com
O/T This is a comment taken from the article below.
People might be voting on Thursday, but their vote will not count.
There is little doubt in my mind that the greatest swindle is being prepared by Downing St and the UK intelligence services to have substitute ballot boxes taking the place of real ones. The substitute votes will of course in the majority be for Scotland to remain within the UK.
if anyone thinks I am joking then let me remind them of LIBOR, gold etc.
If I was the party in favour of independence I would be following and staying with those ballot boxes all the way to wherever they are counted and until they are counted.
link to zerohedge.com
The lawyers they conjoin.”
Chumbawamba – The Diggers’ Song
link to youtube.com
@Grousebeater
The history of Scottish people conniving with the emissaries of England’s interests is littered with lickspittle turncoats and money grabbers.
Some humility on that score would not be wasted.
Amended that for you
Rev there is no way you were incognto, I got a call from one of our Airdrie Yessers saying you were on the train,all the Wingers at the PQ demo were on a Stu alert but sadly no show awe,well you missed a very good event & the Samba dancer was brilliant ask John King his eyes were poping oota his heid lol.
Grouse Beater. All history is offered with self-interested people, of all professions and persuasions. A moment’s reflection would tell you that.
Attacking lawyers, with the usual, cheap soundbite, is so very easy. Fortunately, and cheerfully, we are used to beIng under attack.
I repeat my prediction: the constitutional status of Scotland will be one of the key issues after a Yes vote – whatever the insults that you wish to throw.
Oops. I should stop this. I meant to say that all history is “littered” with self-interested people, of all professions and persuasions. The Spell Check has changed it to “offered”. Apologies.
Stair: Attacking lawyers, with the usual, cheap soundbite
I am tempted to say you are treading a shoogly path, Stair, but I see you have no sense of humour.
No one here corrects another typo errors or insults them as of less educated stock.
Rereading you first answer tells me it is ambiguous.
Are you a supporter of independence, and are you a lawyer? If so, which practice and where?
Stair: Oops. I should stop this.
None of your sentences speak as a lawyer. You are evasive.
Stair
To change the subject for a minute, would you have a view on how to protect Scotland’s NHS from the TTIP?
Not long in from Airdrie YES stall & the NO campains visitors from Hull & Stockton on Tees MPs with Pamela Nash & Tom Clarke MPs oh there a sad miserable lot ,spoke to 2 young guys from Hull labour actavists,2 WBBs to while away there journey south, the NO camp are pulling down the yes signs, Ma Wee Shed was covered in No sticker this morning, we’re winning keep it going lads n lasses rite tae the wire.
After the vote (YES) the majority in Scotland will come together to find the way to achieve the best for Scotland and the rest of the UK. To make new arrangement work in everyone’s interest. Exciting times.
Pay the ransom. It is cheaper, less destructive and saves lives.
They are putting NO stickers on YES stickers on cars etc. Childish.
The FM dropped into Linlithgow this afternoon for a wee walkabout in his home down. There was, naturally, a good Yes turnout (we’re quite efficient here in WL), but what impressed me was the obvious affection with which he was greeted by the crowd as he went around kissing babies and posing for selfies, and his obvious happiness in doing so (and, face it he must have hugged hundreds of people in the past weeks).
Can you imagine Cameron or Milliband, or Lamont or Alexander getting that kind of reception. Can you imagine them even daring to try?
I hold no particular candle for the FM – but he’s got us to where we are, almost single-handedly, by not letting his purpose waver – and the crowd’s palpable need to go that last step and get us over the line means he was greeted with the enthusiasm he deserves.
Help ma boab. Knew this would happen. Dan snow talking about gathering in London tonight urging us to stay.
He had to go pulling on my heart strings making me well up at the thought of leaving old Blighty.
Was supposed to go canvassing tonight.
What am I gonna do now ?
I Don’t know if this vid has been posted before..if it has I apologise…
The Stolen Seas…
link to youtube.com
Vote Yes.
Go canvassing
Chalk: Amended that for you
You distorted its meaning. In this instance I referred to lawyers, those who helped remove land from villagers who had tilled it for generations, and from the church, common land, and aided the elite in securing it as their own.
So who is on the top 10 most wanted list of BBC reporters and presenters who should be sacked?
I am not fighting with anybody. I genuninly wanted an answer to why Scotland was not deemed to be a successor state. I am a Yes voter, and have supported independence since the 1960s. One of those who kept the flame alive. It was a simple request for information, which I have now received. Thank you to those who helped me.
O/T
When out and about in the car today I was waiting at the lights as you do, anyhoo the lamppost next to it had a big bright blue YES advert, below it was a daft wee labour “Vote No” advert, If I was a DK on a dreary Monday morning even that “Vote No” sounds very aggressive and negative and would say to me its simply just telling me how to vote give no inspiration at all.
Stay on track folks, we are all doing our wee bit for a huge reward! YES!
Looks like they have been on to Mr Rasmussen. Just more Barrosso stuff here.
Well the Secretary for Nato has said we will have to apply, lets not bother,who on earth puts their defences at risk for spite, oh I forgot who was one of the other Secretaries for Nato. Husband just said they must have something on these people that they come out and look stupid for them.
It may heal the rift in the SNP if we do not go in I certainly do not want in this organisation.
Sorry Msean, you posted just before me, looks like he has been nobbled.
To all you guys –
I was really on a downer because of the stubborn intransigence of that taxi driver – and be assured I mocked him – into his Blank Face for the idiot he is.
It disturbed me :-
Until I read the WoS Report about that marvellous young lady who emblazoned “YES” on the ancient rocks that form the foundation of Embra Castle.
My heart now sings
My brain flies on Wings
over Scotland.
The day awaits
Anticipates – Freedom.
Emancipation
from confrontation
with the Dark Forces
of SLAB and Tory rule.
Calmer days for betta ways
to govern and rule –
OUT FOODBANKS.
The plus
is thus
a Saltire wound –
in the cold,cold heart of a Useless Union.
Brother and sister Scot
We`ve got
One Chance
One expanse to lance
the boil
of a sorry past.
Existing, persisting
in a hinterland
A winterland
Nae bedroom tax
at Balmoral.?
Stew, gona keep us updated on your daily wanderings ?, I dare you to declare your movements the day before!.
Pam: Thank you to those who helped me.
You are very welcome.
You can be certain our elected administration will go into the negotiating chamber well armed with the facts, and a brace of constitutional lawyers. Our government has done its homework, unlike the other side.
link to facebook.com
You are going to like this !!!!
Don’t miss it.
Dan Snow? Hereditary tv presenter and son in law of UKs richest aristocrat? He’ll get a big crowd then,in England.
The BBC should give up. Doom and gloom ignorant nonsense.
The SNP is funded by it’s members. People join to give (to help others)
Unionists Parties are funded by Banks, Unions and interest groups. People join for what they can get.
After Independence. Where are Scottish Labour/Tories/Liberals going to get funding. Affiliated to political Parties in the rest of the UK? Interest groups ie banking, landowners, Unions?
Helena: It may heal the rift in the SNP if we do not go in I certainly do not want in this organisation.
It lost its role years ago and became a puppet for USA aggression. It parks warheads on the Russian border and we are suppoed to be friendly nations.
What did the USA do when Russia thought it could send warheads to Cuba? It threatened to blow Cuba and the planet out of existence. No wonder Russia is protecting its border.
Just listened to bits of the Jeremy Vine show – Foulkes talking crap as usual – saying the Yes intimidation was orchestrated from the top -if we get a Yes on Friday – he should be sued for defamation.
Didn’t listen to all of it but again, the No folk make me despair – a young girl – I’m voting No because there is no plan B – not enough info, too much risk, a woman’s parents voting no but don’t want any information – it’s amazing that these folk managed to get themselves out of bed in the morning.
@Helena Brown
My thoughts too,I am not toosure,but I thought he refused to be drawn before,internal matter and all that.
Dan Snow gets no support. Who elected him? He doesn’t even have a vote. His father-law owns a large (inheritance tax free) estate in Scotland. Inherited land is tax free under UK Law. Dan looking out for the inheritance.
Sorry for going O/T here but I couldn’t find the link below earlier. 😉
Just as a we filler to anyone wanting to know some background to Lindsay’s condition here’s a link that gives some details. What an awe inspiring woman she is. SHE and many thousands like her are the reason, in my view, why we are all fighting for a YES victory on Friday. A victory which we WILL achieve by the way. 😛
link to facebook.com
Cameron Brodie. I am just about to depart for Tom Nairn’s book launch. I am surprised that you might be interested in the view of a mere retired lawyer, tainted by the nefarious deeds of his predecessors.
I will assume you are not being sarcastic. So, how would you protect Scotland’s NHS for the TTIP.
1. Exercise your sovereign will by voting Yes. That is an exercise of the ‘precautionary principle’ familiar to all lawyers. If the TTIP just might apply to health service via the UK, then take the precaution of not being in the UK. That will hopefully avoid the gradual privatisation of the English NHS being used to force the door open to private health companies in Scotland if we remain in the UK.
2. Read the draft TTIP to see precisely whether, and if so how, the health service might be affected. That is what lawyers are good at – actually reading the detail rather than all too conveniently ignoring it because it is just ‘legalese’. This should really come first, but there is not enough time. The TTIP’s current potential as a threat is enough to operate the precautionary principle.
I cheerfully admit that I have not seen any draft, and I suspect you have not either. But if the chips are down, I will want an opinion from an expert constutional lawyer, not a lay person.
3. If TTIP is to apply, or is likely to apply, or might be interpreted as applying, to NHS Scotland, even after Scotland becomes a Member State of the EU, that will require both political and legal resistance.
4. Before then, in the Constituion which you will presumably consider irrelevant (although a draft one already exists), the health service should be entrenched as a public ‘good’. The NHS, as a public service, will then have the protection of the law. But I suppose you don’t think the protection of the law is of any great consequence. Lawyers know otherwise.
5. If the constutional protection given to NHS Scotland (or indeed to any other public ‘good’, such as education) is threatened by TTIP, because it applies to such public services and EU law trumps domestic law, a political decision would have to be taken.
6. Frankly, if it was me, I would tell the EU to get stuffed. Plenty other Member States have done that when their interests have been threatened. That is the beauty of constitional protection underpinned by the sovereign will.
Crossed the border today , returning from holiday with the grandchildren.
There is a depressing looking waste ground full of NO signs on the way south – still there on the way back , but on the bridge over the M74 were a load of cars YES banners and saltires , a grand welcome home!
Further on there was another YES banner over another bridge – sadly complete with police car ,so I suspect the lad with the ladders on his van and his YES banner were moved on – but well done to all those good folk!
Home to Glasgow and nipped into Govan Lidls and there before me on the flats beside the shop, windows with YES all over the place.
We can! We will get rid of the depressing, manipulating ,lying , trashing sods who have attempted to destroy democracy.
I thought “the empire strikes back” vid was the funniest thing I had seen on the ref debate. But I just listened to Dan Snow on radio Scotland, check it out, hilarious!!
UK administration? Westminster? will try to spin out the negotiating. They just keep on hanging on. So long.
Perfect sense on the news earlier today. The future will produce uncertain times but do you want controls or not.
Also PM with his ‘it will be forever’ statement. No, were not giving up democracy just Westminster. If we elect somebody that turns out to be a duffer we’ll get shot of them, that is how it works
Spoke to a fellow member of our Yes group who said that his father has been leafletting and talking about the benefits of independence to lots of Muslims round about Glasgow’s Central Mosque area and the responses were very positive and pro-Yes.
If anyone lives near, or within, any Mulim communities, keep spreading the message. Many Muslims are, unsurprisingly, alarmed ,to say the least, at the increasing anti-foreigner and anti-Muslim rhetoric emanating from Westminster.
Stair – you have to be the least diplomatic lawyer I have ever encountered, both arch as well as arrogant.
No lawyer of any integrity would tell the EU publically, on a public forum, to get stuffed. And only a Tory Right-winger or a Ukip mercenary would make that his duty.
I was up visiting Glasgow on Saturday too and can confirm the atmosphere was absolutely buzzing. Lots of obvious Yes activity, with the bulk of the No stuff being the usual signs in farmers’ fields on the way up the road etc.
Still, many of the people I spoke to were No, undecided or unwilling to say, but there’s no doubting the passion and engagement of the Yes side. I simply can’t see this fading away come Friday, whatever the outcome.
@ Stair 2.28 pm
This is a good comment and very informative.
Being fluent in the German language and in its everyday use, I would describe the “Grundnorm” as the basic or base norm, the basic political and social entity upon which the Nation and society is built.
However, I am not a lawyer so I would not want to argue the toss with you about this. 😉
DR ELSIE INGLIS AND THE SCOTTISH WOMEN’S HOSPITALS
“acknowledges that these hospitals were set up despite a severe lack of support from the British War Office”
link to parliament.uk
Note the “severe lack of support”. What’s changed?
Grouse Beater. You have the wrong ‘Stair’, I am afraid. I will leave you to investigate for yourself.
OT
KatieEwen123 3:24pm via Twitter for iPhone
Evidence has emerged of the original draft of Beckham’s support for the no campaign ???????? #VoteYes #indyref #yes pic.twitter.com/Rs6DebMWu0
“They are lying every day. They are lying always, and mainly they are lying to their public opinion.”
“I can assure you that those villians will recognise, will discover in appropriate time in the future how stupid they are and how they are pretending things which have never taken place.”
“They are becoming hysterical. This is the result of frustration.”
Three comments made about the British (UK) by none other than Comical Ali, the Iraqui Information Minister, during the illegal war. Sound familiar?
As they’d say in the Sunday Post: “Aye, It fair makes you think!”
Stair: You have the wrong ‘Stair’
Evasive as ever.
You have refused to answer a single question… aimed at you.
As an FRSE I’m sitting among lawyers. None have heard of you. Perhaps that accounts for your compulsion to insult and demean.
Credit to Rev for the comment about bullying turning people off. As said, both campaigns have people who go too far.
A bit of feedback I got was of some young people being told by a YES campaigner “what about the poll tax and Thatcher”. The young voters weren’t even alive and never heard of poll tax, and most hadn’t heard of Thatcher!
I enjoyed listening to the First Minister repelling. Channel 4 interviewer trying to get him to give the answer THEY wanted. Also I note a sneaky wee poster a while back trying to get us to prepare a hate list of journalists. No thanks! We will not be shoe horned into unpleasant responses.
Do I hate some journalists? No but the likes of cokhers is,as my granny would say, more to be pitied than laughed at.
@Grousebeater
I am being serious, scottish people have gone against the good of the nation for years.
Time to reign these bastards in.
Stair
Good answer but do you have to be such a dick?
You are a retired lawyer, so will look at the world in a particular way, due to your specialist insight. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the majority of Scotland’s electorate do not view the world as you do. That was the point I was making, not that the eventual constitutional settlement Scotland achieves is unimportant.
Don’t take this personally, but I thought you were attempting to lead us into the long grass. Perhaps it might be an idea to climb down of your horse, before offering pearls of wisdom.
Onwards.
Grouse Beater. Lawyers are not diplomats. Their job is to argue their corner, with as much forensic precision as they can muster.
The EU is regularly told by Member States to get stuffed – in the most polite way, of course – on all sorts of issues.
@Grouse: Leave it alone….
It’s not important at this moment. Go and deliver some leaflets or something and let the smirr cool you off :))
You are sitting amongst lawyers at the RSE? I presume it’s not the Dining Club?
About 2 months ago, after following Wings for a few months, I decided that if the vote was lost by a narrow margin I would never forgive myself. I helped start a local Woman for Indy group in Kirriemuir and went canvassing for the first time.
Last week, I spent 2 hours canvassing from the centre of Kirrie up the Roods and off a lot of little lanes on either side. I got a few don’t knows and some “not tellings” but lots of yesses. Only when I got to the top of the hill, did I get my first definite no. I was so surprised that I almost looked pleased. (She looked a bit taken aback when I told her that she was the only no of the evening.)
Later on I spent 3 hours canvassing around Southmuir and again only one firm no, but after 10 minutes of interesting discussion, she took a WBB.
I managed to get on Morning call last week and mention the WBB and how it helps so many undecideds make up their minds. (I show people who look too busy to read it all the content page and usually mention a couple of topics which they may be interested in, say pensions and health for elderly people, etc.)
Incidentally, the Better Together Window in a shop in the town (they don’t have a proper shop) has a strange furry bush-baby in the window. This puzzled me, until I remembered that the other name for a bush-baby is the aye-aye. Do they think that a double positive makes a negative or have they been infiltrated by a mole?
Stair: Lawyers are not diplomats.
In your case, no. And I doubt you’re a lawyer.
Hurry, or you’ll miss Nairn’s book launch in New College. By the way, it’s a collection of previously published essays. Hope that isn’t a spoiler.
Tartanarse – I’ve tried loads of combos, but it seems that any pro-indy ‘plates weren’t released, just like the BO11 OCK series… I’ve got a 2006 Golf GTI and I really wanted YE54 SCO or SC04 YES or something along those lines. SC04 AYE is already on a crappy wee Vauxhall.
I got some fake French ‘plates made up on eBay, though. Drove ’round a lot of Europe earlier in the year with 18 OUI 09 on my old 964. 😀 Might stick them on it again on Thursday.
Is this what you would call a Stairheid rammy? Let’s get over that finishing line folks!
O/T Martin Compston (?@martin_compston) has been tweeting about arranging a big YES gathering in George Square in Glasgow for 6pm tomorrow (Tuesday).
@WeAreNational YES get together George Sq Glasgow tomorrow 6pm keep spreading the positive message hug a no voter on the way #YES
Wanted to get JA-SCH 14 made up for that trip, but couldn’t find anyone doing the old DIN typeface that the Germans used to use… 🙁
Project Fear has been all about intimidation. It knew that people who took the time to study the issues involved in independence would probably come out for Yes. It knew it had to concentrate on those who, for a number of reasons, didn’t bother to find out the relevant knowledge. These people are the easiest to intimidate. That’s why Project Fear, right up until Thursday, will continue to put all its efforts into scare-mongering.
Kininivie: Deliver some leaflets
I prefer to talk to people face-to-face.
Leaflets at this lates stage tend to get binned. People are fearful because they’ve been told this is a giant step ‘into the unknown.’ They need reassurance, not a leaflet.
I know the focus is on TTIP, and what it means for our health service: but I think that people should know, if they don’t already, that this insidious platform for privatisation is not the only thing we have to worry about. Have you all heard of GPA?
link to thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net
It seems to me that TTIP is not introducing anything that is new and that the UK has already signed up to this agenda. I don’t know why it has become an issue since TTIP came to the fore: perhaps because we are supposed to be impressed by WTO and IMF as supranational bodies which are objective in a way that national governments are not. These organisations have been captured by the neoliberals, as much as any national government, as has the EU. We should be in no doubt about that.
I was also interested to read a post by Richard Murphy, on his site, about the imposition of VAT on food which he thinks is inevitable in Scotland if we join the EU.
I have long been opposed to the insistence on VAT as a primary source of tax revenue because it is regressive: I prefer that income tax should be reinstated as the primary tax on individuals because it is the best tax we have: but of course it is simultaneously reduced in importance but presented as an evil: and that is easy to do because it is highly visible
In a post independence Scotland I want the full range of tax and spending to be under our own control so we can at least begin to make the case for fair taxation: but if Mr Murphy is right we will not have that option.
This is something we need to debate after the vote: the EU also wants to subject food to VAT in rUK, though it does not currently have the power to insist on that, for the UK has a derogation and if it is the continuing state that will continue. Of course it is not certain that it will be the sole continuing state: that is mere assertion by the UK, so far as I can tell. Nonetheless,if we get a yes vote there are a great many things we need to be thinking about in building the kind of society we want to see, and how we wil go about it.
link to taxresearch.org.uk
Famous 15: Stairheid rammy?
Good one!
I am consulting my QC, Mr Stile Bannister.
Sorry for going O/T but I’ve just been having a wee bit of fun.
Like so many in Scotland I have, how shall I say this, unbelievably found out that my T.V. Tax has not been getting paid. Oh how sad, I am mortified, I am HONESTLY! 😀
Never mind though folks you need not worry about my imminent arrest and eventual jail time cause I have found out that I no longer have a T.V. Would any of you believe me if I told you I actually have a 50 inch computer monitor! 😛
This is the most sensible article I’ve seen on here. Too many from both sides get angry and argumentative. The mob mentality shown to shut down Jim Murphy is really quite pathetic, if they had turned up, were respectful and asked serious questions instead of screaming abuse it would have been so much better.
I am a no voter, but more dialogue like that might still convert me
“if they had turned up, were respectful and asked serious questions instead of screaming abuse it would have been so much better.
The problem is that if you do that, Murphy just screams at you and ignores them.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Lesley-Anne
bloody hell how big is the keyboard and mouse
bald eagle says:
Lesley-Anne
bloody hell how big is the keyboard and mouse
Well all I can say BE is that it takes me BOTH hands to push the mouse across the floor, table is too small, and I have to jump onto the buttons. 😛
As for the keyboard, well let’s just say I can sit in my armchair and use my walking stick to hit the keys. I actually use my Left foot to push the SHIFT key. 😀
My 15 year old son has just come in from school, having passed competing Yes and No stalls in our local town.
As a well clued up and passionate Yes, he attempted to get material from both camps.
Both asked his age and he admitted that he couldn’t vote but whereas the Yes camp willingly gave him material and congratulated him on his interest in politics, the No camp were begrudging in offering leaflets and told him he shouldn’t be taking leaflets if he couldn’t vote!
They also tried to tell him that the oil was running out whereby my son replied that in that case it would be of little interest to Westminster, to which they had no answer 🙂
pAm McMahon and others: the argument that Carty and Clyde put forward is that there will be two co-continuator states, Scotland and England. And both will have equal legitimacy. Crawford and Boyle argue (without a shred of evidence) that there will be only one continuator state, a weird entity they call rUK, and that Scotland will be a successor state, a new state. Being a successor state does not give you the same rights in negotiation to the assets of the UK as a continuator state. Hope that’s clear. It sounds like you were getting successor state and continuator state mixed up.
ot fuds oan news bbc
I’d better get this idea out, apologies if anyone has mentioned it before or indeed done this themselves. I’m talking about some brave person doing a Jim Murphy for us and standing on a crate reciting from the good book, the WBB obviously. Not too late!
Cameron’s speech puts the final nail in the Better Together coffin. Talks all about “our country” meaning the UK. It’s pathetic, first time I’ve saw a squirrel give a press conference.
Had the grand-kids at the swimming lessons.The cafe observation area was buzzing with adults discussing the referendum over coffee and cakes. Lots of YES folk there.
Anyhoo!
@Seasick Dave
Just loved that last we bit.
They also tried to tell him that the oil was running out whereby my son replied that in that case it would be of little interest to Westminster, to which they had no answer.
I’ll remember that for tomorrow. 🙂
Has CMD (the other one) arrived yet.
Dearie dearie me. Wee Davy Cameron on SKY news crying his eyes out to crowd of NO Together whatsits! 😛
Cameron lying again. What a PR man.
It would mean the end of the Tories and get rid of Cameron.
Vote YES
Cameron – lie, lie, bluff, beg, lie lie. Tosser
O/T The YES gig in George Square at 6pm tomorrow has the hashtag #yesinthesquare on Twitter.
Move one more person each to Yes and we walk it. You know who the likely candidates are in your own circles. It can be uncomfortable having that conversation but it’ll feel a hell of a lot worse if No win. One person each.
i’m Thinking 63% plus for yes
Thanks Cameron
A NO vote Thursday means ‘jam tomorrow’ the ‘status quo’ has been swept away by the debate…
It’s a blatant bribe! CMD speaking what a rat! ( the real one)
Boy is he a worried man.
Cameron can’t walk the streets. Secretly sneaks about.
Pay back time.
Remember, ‘it’s a matter for the Scot’s. What happened. Greeting face.
Bloody hell. Is Cameron actually going to start greetin?
@paul gerard mccormack
God Save the Queen/King is the official British national anthem and for many Commonwealth countries. It is the official anthem of the UK State.
Other anthems are used only in the context of events where the home nations represent themselves with a distinct song or anthem.
Scotland doesn’t have an anthem. What happens is different governing bodies choose their own tune.
IMO, if there is a no vote then all National aspects of Scotland have been voted down whedre the madate is really for semi-autonomous regional variations/organisations and institutions.
Until now Scotland is a country and a nation that has allowed by treaty to share sovereignty but nobody really voted for it. This week we will vote where sovreignty lies and what role Scotland has in the world, as a Nation State or a Region of another.
Scotland will still technically be considered a nation depending on the context. Eg Geographically England/Wales and Scptland are all considered home nations and countries even though wales is technically a principality I believe.
Under the UN Scotland will still be classed as a semi-autonomous region. The only reason for this is that it has
a) A defined Land area and recognised border (lets leave out the 6000sq/m question)
b) Our own system of law and jurisdiction.
c) A government that can pass laws within a) and b)
Currently Scotland is not classed as a country:
link to esa.un.org
Sorry for the typos above!
What a NUMPTY this Cameron geeza is. Has he talked to ANY of his backbenchers or ANY of his luvvey dovey Lords? Apparently NOT, because his backbenchers are on the verge of a revolt regarding Brown promising *ahem* NEW powers to Scotland. His Lordy types are apparently saying the *cough* promises of MORE powers are unconstitutional. 😛
link to newsnetscotland.com
link to heraldscotland.com
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
guys
just read this headline on bt.com site whilst logging into my email,cant get the link to copy but worth reading for the comedy value alone! Opinion: The battle for the United Kingdom
Will David Cameron survive? Has Alex Salmond bitten off more than he can chew? Chris Moncrieff reflects on the biggest domestic crisis the UK has faced for centuries.
after trashing us and David Cameron for not allowing people south of the border a say on our Referendum his next piece says Ian Paisley was a nice man honestly these people are aff their hied..
CMD speaking now at Aberdeen BBC 24live
He’s trying hard.. but no deal.
Three pleases! a fourth please! Geez!
Finished!
bbc guy gonny greet efter watchin cameron
Control youself man!!
Cameron doing his best to tell Scotland our vision of a better place must be subjugated to Westminster’s agenda.
He is making a plea for his reputation.
As usual, it’s half phony love, half threat.
He keeps talking about ‘our’ country.
He means all of Britain is his.
We can be a proud Scot and a proud Brit is his clarion call, a redundant argument. Unfortunately he doesn’t remind us how corrupt his United Kingdom has become.
Television is loving it … they will repeat it ad nauseam. Front page tomorrow.
Guardian Live Feed is just solid No propaganda.
This is technical – and a wee bit hard going – but if you want to read and take it in, the currency argument becomes as clear as can be.
link to adamsmith.org
Devorgilla: Carty and Clyde put forward is that there will be two co-continuator states, Scotland and England. And both will have equal legitimacy.
Many thanks, Devorgilla, in particular for the good natured response. That’s the position as I understand it.
Now I know what a British prime minister standing at the edge of a cliff looks like.
It ain’t pretty.
O/T Your references to Shawlands sent me to Google maps and Streetview. Did my highers at Shawlands Academy over half a century ago.
I’m thinking that Shawlands Arcade was built o the site of a cinema. Can anybody confirm or put me right?
Jeez its so hard to keep up with posts, links etc, need to stay up 24 hrs a day. Best thing that brought a lump to my throat was
from a link given by heedtracker a million posts back
and they will hear the whisper of future generations at their ear as they bend to put that cross in a box, ‘do the right thing’.
Anthems
Scotland the not so very brave at all
Oh weeds of Scotland
Londonia
The only anthem that would fit would be God save the queen `rebellious Scots to crush`
Thanks for everything Rev
Any attempt at impartiality by the BBC was completely blown this afternoon on Radio 5 Live around 3.10 to 3.25pm. Better Together voters were interviewed and given leading questions and allowed to answer without interruption, then a couple of Yes activists were interviewed in Glasgow’s west end. The questions were in a mocking and sneering style such as “can you afford embassies?”. The Yes activist did well to keep his cool.
If anyone can find this and publish it here, I’m sure it will help the Yes campaign.
Dan Snow and Eddie Izzard has no answer to, ‘They [Scotland] want to govern themselves’ other than to say, ‘Of course they can,’ after a long pause to think about it.
They just ‘don’t want us to go.’
We are not going anywhere, dear Dan, dear Eddie. We are staying. We are rejecting your corrupt government and all it stands for.
I managed, just about 😉 , to keep the cry baby a.k.a. David Cameron on whilst I had my tea. It was extremely difficult but I think I just about survived. However when the perfect duo came on, a.k.a. Eddie Izzard and Dan Snow, that was it channel changed in double quick time! 😛
Chalks,
The Beginning is Near!
Take heart and big deep breaths and smile, walk tall and win people over by sheer force of positivity!
Lots of people can feel something changing and do not wish to be on the losing side. That, I think is one of the reasons that the polling companies, and even the ‘balanced’ BBC debates try so hard to contain with their too close to call propaganda!
The images and stories of festive gatherings all over the country are seeping into the countries consciousness and will be more than evident on the day of the vote.
Take your computers and phones to older relatives and neighbours not online and share those images, the effect can be quite staggering to those living in their own quiet bubble!
All focus and energy on the task at hand!
Win, win, win!
Tom Devine spoke wisdom:
In reponse to ‘Cameron is now offering Devo-Max’ (a lie) he says
“The genie of Ukip, English nationalism, is out of the bottle. They won’t like more powers given to Scotland.”
One for Ian
‘Yes we can’ beat ‘No we canny’ in a two horse race at Musselburgh this afternoon.
A portent of things to come.
@bjsalba says:
I’m thinking that Shawlands Arcade was built o the site of a cinema. Can anybody confirm or put me right?
Don’t have time to check Shawlands for you, but this website is a great resource on old Glasgow cinemas:
link to scottishcinemas.org.uk
Prof Tom Devine (sky news) just demolished CMD’s speech and the whole NO campaigns tactics. Brilliant.
He was a NO for a while.
what a welcome the first minister had in stirling, proud as fuck of my town. He helped a 91 yearold lady onto the stage who told us to vote yes, awesome. I love our first minister.
@ Andrew Morton – agree about Guardian but remember they have come out as no.
The couple that really annoyed me was the guy who only came to study in Scotland to get free tuition and is voting no in case his fees go up.
And Ming the merciless – a federal UK is within our reach!
The guy is a chancer of the 1st order – he was the one who blocked the LibDums from forming a coalition with the minority SNP in 2007.
And he MUST know that would have to be agreed by all of WM and the cons have already said No!
I’m glad this will be over soon cos I can hardly hold my temper.
Call me Dave@ 1.16: Is that the same Stuart Cosgrove that is on Radio Scotland with Tam Cowan on Saturday? I believe he once said Jack McConnoll was his favourite First Minister. What was his rant about?
Stephen.
Devorgilla, thanks for your reply, Yes, tricky adjectives like successor and continuer tend to mix up us old people no end, especially since they have been specifically designed for the purpose of introducing confusion and obfuscation to the debate.
I don’t believe the independent nation of Scotland should go into the post Yes negotiations in a disadvantaged position, and should be a continuer state, with the same terms and conditions as the rUK.
Leave Cameron B Brodie alone! He was nice to me on one of these threads the other day. 🙂
By the way, don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before, but the silliest reason I’ve heard for voting no – “My granny told me to.” !!!
Hi, Alex – don’t know if I’ll even manage three sleeps; I’m now quite hysterical with combined hope and fear. 🙂
My wife called to say she went inside the Yes office in Stromness, Orkey, a couple of hours ago, and signed the book. She says the place was very busy, ‘humming,’ but was concerned to find a myriad of large No hoardings over the island, many fronted by our English cousins.
@bugsbunny
Hope the link still works.
…………………….
“Have a listen to this on the John Beattie show.
Astonishing.Just after 1hr and 8minutes in.”
link to bbc.co.uk
The worms that turned. That is one interesting conversation, sounds as if some of the staff have also had enough of the BBC bias. 😀
Today I watched Lord Reid on the politics show ranting impressively without answering any of Jo Coburn’s questions. Misleading his own people to the end; I wonder if he actually knows he’s lying.
Oh what lovely people.
Any chance this pen v pencil thing can be nailed once and for all? I’m in a quandary with this now.
I don’t trust the EC and what they’re saying about this now might not be the same as what they say AFTER the vote if its close which is where it would be at least theoretically possible to swing the vote by having slab drones or spooks physically alter them remember they’d have the machinery of the state and its propaganda arms to back them up.
Hopefully I’m just paranoid, like I was over the oo march on the 13th where I thought that trouble would be caused and prearranged to have the Yes side blamed, but apparently nothing much happened except of course that they aroused the disgust and contempt of the citizens of Edinburgh and probably got us some more Yes votes.
Can anyone state definitively that it is ok to use a pen (black or blue biro of course) and not just because the EC said so?
Surprised at the number of posters on here who have trusted the postal vote system. I’ve heard about some quite severely disabled people who don’t trust it as far as they could throw it and have arranged lifts or will hire taxis to get them to and from the polling station.
@bjsalba says:
I’m thinking that Shawlands Arcade was built o the site of a cinema. Can anybody confirm or put me right?
Shawlands Arcade was built next door to a cinema. The cinema building is still in existence. It was a nightclub but is now unused.
OT Will McLeod first report from Soctland!
link to nrtalkradio.libsyn.com
O/T
My mate has just declared for Yes after being a No voter. Can all twitter users please welcome him Yes love.
link to twitter.com
Wow just saw the new BTNoThanks new referendum broadcast, just when I thought it was an improvement on cereal wummin, Crash Gordon appears right at the end, blabbering on about how your pensions are safe and higher in the UK!!
Donedid Icy. 😉
There are definitely different approaches when trying to bring people round to Yes. Different people have different concerns. What definitely doesn’t work is getting too fired up and screaming from the rooftops that you are in the right. As the referendum nears it’s vital that we keep the head. Every vote counts. There are still many people (undecided/soft No’s) who may yet join us in voting Yes. The last thing we want to do is put them off.
Great to have you back up the road Rev for the final push. The WBB truly is invaluable.
slightly O/T I’ve wrote a few tunes about the referendum. They are a wee bit rough as I was pressed for time. One of them is about the shambles that is the Labour party. Enjoy.
soundcloud.com/aye-we-can/in-bed-with-the-tories-1
A well made up Charles Kennedy getting a wee dig in about the protest yesterday.
Totally and wilfully missing the point.
WOW!
I’m just listening to the radio link put up by Albanach. The Wee Blue Book gets a mention as does some wee website called Wings Over Scotland. I’ve never heard of this site, any one got any links? 😛
link to yesscotland.net
cgood for them if 42% of labour voters are yessers , we can only lose by fraud surely
Sky News introduces Referendum item as follows:
“Will the Scots turn their backs on 300 years of shared history?”
… rather than:
“Will the Scots vote for greater democracy after 300 years of Westminster rule?”
LA, it’s Will Mcleod talking to Netroots, if you recall he got crowdfunded to come over and cover what’s happening on the ground. He’ll be podcasting over the next few days, sometimes live though…unbiased, unfiltered reporting. Wonderful stuff!
Yeah Grouse…it’s all in the way they spin the yarn…
I think he falls definitively into the box marked NEUTRAL JOURNALISM K1. 😛
Now if there were only some way of spreading his views far and wide. We need something like … like say an inter computer system thingy … maybe even call it something like, say … the INTERNET! 😀
Here you go LA; link to wingsoverscotland.com
Thanks K1 😉
I wore my badge at work last week for the first time. Two customers independently announced that they were Yes. And why was that such a surprise? They were both English Scots.
This is not about England. Its not about any ethnic group. All sections of our community from any and all backgrounds are welcome to vote Yes. I have in truth, not heard a single person, not one, say at any time that feelings toward “the English” had anything to do with their decision. The only them and us context has been the “them” who are a rich elite in Westminster who all know each other and look out for each other, and an “Us” who include everyone else on this island ( all the bits) who get taken for a ride by the elite.
This is not even a Nationalist revolution, its a people revolution by people sick of their rulers. I sincerely hope we win, and that we inspire the other peoples on this island to vote for a new kind of politics and a better society themselves.
At the weekend a certain Boris Johnson was elected to parliament. Not by the voters of Uxbridge and South Ruislip. But by a local cabal of party members. In what way is that democracy?
Several children of former Labour ministers have been selected for “safe” seats. Where’s the social justice in the concept of a hereditary MP?
Vote Yes and lets start again.
Just in, rather damp from a fine moist evening in Kirriemuir, from what (I hope) will be my last ever delivery of personalised letters. I joined the SNP as a junior member at the age of 16 and I know it will be hard for many of you to believe that that was more than a couple of weeks ago but it was.
But here we are 4.7 decades later (doesn’t seem as long if you say it like that). How many miles trudged? How many soakings? How many trapped fingers in letter boxes seemingly designed as a sideline by a mousetrap company the main aim of which seems to be to prevent your fingers from being extracted long enough for their little darling, the halfbreed schnauzer-piranha to ‘play’ with your hapless digits?
Multiply that by the thousands of others who have essentially, likewise, written over a part of their lifetime to a cause.
Not that any of us had any real choice. Once you realise the sheer rightness of that cause, you are caught far more fastly than any steel trap could ever manage.
And that is what will secure our victory in the end, whatever the result on Thursday. The independence cause is a titanium-steel ratchet. It only goes in one direction.
K1
Totally didnt realise that America was that into us, maybe explains why they would would have no problem taking trident.
Scary bit is that John Kerry was a founding member.
Labour leaflets popped through letter box, asking me to vote no, then below, it says do you need a lift to the polling station, phone this number, and we’ll pick you up, extraordinary.
@Andy B – I would take them up on their offer, vote yes and tell that when they drive you home.
Out of my own list of friends whom I was going to try to get to vote YES, a certain friend was going to be the hardest as he was a true labour supporter and a member of that party for most of his adult life, and we now stay over fifty miles away from each other and contact is mimimal.
Well he contacted me last week to pass on the news that a family member of his had sadly passed on, as we chatted and caught up on each others family lifes, the referendum of course was mentioned and he told me they were now voting YES, asked why, he said the evidence for YES was overwhelming.
This would have been my absolute hardest person to turn from NO to YES a year ago, I ended up having to do nothing as the case for YES did it itself.
Before the end of the year me and my friend will get pished in celebration.
You’ll more than likely find that these young lads work for BAE Systems and have probably just read the blog issued by Ian King.
From an interview with Irvine Welsh in Spiegel online (translated from the German):
Welsh:
Great Britain used to be an imperialist construct made up of two things: industry and empire. That’s all history now. For a short time right after the Second World War, when the National Health Service was set up, it was a social-democratic state. That too is history, completely destroyed in its original form. There is simply nothing to keep Scotland attached to the rest of the United Kingdom.
SPIEGEL ONLINE:
And you blame the government in London for that?
Welsh:
Great Britain is a centralised state with a centralised economy. Everything flows to London, into this welfare state for the super-rich, which is driving the original Londoners out of their city and actually gives preferential treatment to Arab oligarchs and Russians as they drive up property prices. All this is happening at the expense of the people. This economy works in a completely different way to the rest of Great Britain. When you take that together with the strong sense of Scottish national identity which people feel through the independence campaign, we have basically come to the end of the Union. Great Britain is held together by career-obsessed politicians. And that’s just not enough.
Full interview in German: link to spiegel.de
Thanks for the link, Albanach. I do enjoy listening to Will McLeod, he reminds me of a child let loose in a sweetie shop, he’s having such a great time finding out what a great country we live in and getting to grips with the Scottish sense of humour! Nice to see ourselves as others see us, because he sees the best of us.
John Beattie had the twa Blairs on BBC Radio Scotland today to discuss BBC bias. He set them off, then gave them their head and only intervened when it got heated.
The YES Brian was calm and measured in his responses, but the NO Blair spouted much invective about the protest outside the BBC at the weekend and apparently the banners were disgusting. They too had issues with the BBC but kept them to themselves like all reasonable parties would do. His side wouldn’t behave like that even although they had justification.
So the NO Blair tried to come over as if butter wouldn’t melt, but his rush to words suggested that NO are on he last throw of the dice.
Why didn’t you call this post The Wee Blue Tour?
Stuart… were you in Tesco at Bathgate on Saturday evening? If it was you… you’re no as tall as I thought you would be..
Oh.. aye.. near forgot to say… Thank you for your amazing efforts over the last couple of years. Thanks bud!
@Albanach
Thats a great broadcast. Lots of plugs for the WBB too!!
Thanks for turning up and the two boxes of The Wee Blue Book. It will cheer you to know we have absolutely none left! They went faster than out malt whiskey tablet! The Arcade Security Team sys there was slightly under 1,500 folk at the event. Art Village is a shop window for over 200 artists and makers. It was a joy to host the event.
As for the cinema in Shawlands. You’re talking about the old Elephant Cinema. The top has been lopped off it but it is a few doors down from the Arcade…
So nice to see the rest Scotland coming alive at last. I must have another we trip further afield to catch the atmosphere; such a change from the Great Nawbag Desert of Liddesdale and Annandale. Newcastleton appears afraid to embrace a better future. Shame.
@David Smith
Come over to Jedburgh, we’ve pretty much turned to YES! We’ll make you welcome. It’s not THAT far away.
@tartanarse
yes you can get that YE55 ERS number plate !
going cheap …
link to dvlaregistrations.direct.gov.uk
But be carefully you may lose it after Indy – be afraid.
David Smith, I understand how you feel.
I was a wee bit down last week in my village after seeing so many NO Thanks posters and a huge big Union Flag fluttering from a flagpole in the newer part of the village, but I came home today and the old part of the village where I live seems to have burst into YES life.
There are still quite few NO’s , but there is maybe still hope for us Fifers as the further East I go the more YES flags, YES posters such a Scotlands Future in Scotlands hands and the one that Bella have just released.
I counted 39 YES and 5 No’s from the lower end of Dunfermine all the way through to Inverkeithing that was just from walking and looking out the bus window. So goodness knows how many more there are.
I really, really believe that we are going to do it.
@ ticktock (if you are still here)
re: pen versus pencil
The count information pack I received today does not mention writing implements at all. It talks about the various reasons a paper may be rejected or considered doubtful, and has a surprisingly wide range of allowable marks – though to avoid adjudication you should use a cross or a tick.
It does mention the presence of more than one mark leading to a paper’s being classed as doubtful, so any pen which smudged or left another mark on the paper when folded would be a bad idea.
The pencils are supposed to be indelible and it would be incredibly time-consuming to try to rub out a cross and add another. Doing this at either the polling station (which would require extracting the paper from a sealed box) or at the count would be very likely to be detected. It would be far simpler to add a cross to the unmarked box, invalidating the vote because it would be impossible to determine the voter’s intention. That could be done regardless of whether the original cross had been made in pen or pencil. Doing such a thing at the count would be very risky too.
So the only way to fiddle the vote easily would be to lose or substitute ballot boxes; if that were done it wouldn’t matter what you had used to mark your now-missing ballot.
I still think dodgy postal votes are more of an issue, and it is too late to do anything about that now.
David, Wasn’t meaning you as Fifer, but you know what I mean.
@Stuart, did the loud person get off at Shettleston? If yes, then I have met him on the train while I was travelling home to Drumgelloch and I was talking to some undecideds. He jumped in with some “facts”, most of which I had never heard before and when I questioned him about them, he got angry and finally quite abusive to us all. There went 4 undecideds most likely to No because of this behaviour.
Gillie, according to the Electoral Registration Officer they have registered:- 4,285,323 so divide by 2 = 2,142,661 with 1 over, so when ‘YES’ reaches or passes:- 2,142,662 ‘YES’ have it by 1 vote and that is that game over. Majority of one has always been good enough for Westminster’s first past the post system, so what is good for the goose is……………….. Game on Gillie.
Auld Rock
Thanks Ann and Natasha! 🙂
What WAS nice was driving down through my native Lanarkshire on Saturday and seeing Scottish Spring flowers everywhere. Even exchanged waves with a couple in their front garden at Crawford!
“Because there’s something in the air…”
link to v.youku.com
Dear Stuart, I love your site and all your posts. I am now very much a yes. Was gobsmacked this evening that an amazing gorgeous comitted no friend came out as a switherer. In rebuking and rebuffing her questions, two of her friends pointed to the man of bath that spouts propaganda, but doesn’t even live here… that’ll be you?
My friend is a former soldier, her son has just come home after his second tour of afghanistan. I posted this to her…. then spotted you mention guns in the opening line, so deleted my response.I love so much of what you do, and I know what you were saying, but can we leave out even metaphorical guns from the narrative lest they are misinterpreted.xx
100 million unfortunate souls in Punjab have Sarwar Snr. governing them. That is a sad and scary thought.
Macandroid reply. I work in the field of cross media marketing utilising all the electronic platforms supported by tactile products.in the event of a no outcome I have already considered a world wide campaign for the establishment of an electronic transfer fund totally dedicated to support food bank’s which I fear will require more support in a “BETTER TOGETHER” Scotland. This would be a simple organised way of expatriate Scot’s supporting their fellow Scot’s in their need, especially the CHILDREN. Although removed as a child myself from Scotland by well intentioned parents, I know in my soul that I should never have been taken.
Over all these years I have cried plenty of tears for Scotland but that is our nature “melancholy” that particular condition that I think Scot’s have a monopoly on
Forsake
Only in Scotland am I whole
Reunited with my soul
For the boy could be taken
And his soul forsaken
To patiently await
His final fate
Scotland forever, tattooed on his heart
From very last breath, right back to the start
James Dow
I remain Scotland’s son
I just recently discovered WoS and have quickly become addicted. I just saw a post to congratulate a new YES convert over Twitter which I gladly did (and got favorited back!) I’m eagerly watching from San Francisco. I’m a dual US/Irish citizen born here. I realized the Scots were never treated as miserably as the Irish. But you can just vote YES. No fight. No bloodshed.
As an outsider, I don’t get the NO position. I know it’s 300 years, etc. But Westminster and Washington – you can escape their control (sort of). Why would any real Scot vote no? You may only have a few million, but at least a few hundred million care all over the world. Thank you in advance for all your YES votes on the side of a better, less corrupt future for the world, not just Scotland. (BTW my Congreeswoman in San Francisco is Nancy Peolsi – Cameron has nothing on her)
BTW off topic – an iScotland should consider citizenship laws like the Irish that allow grandchildren to become citizens.
Paul Gerard McCormack reply You are right O Flower of Scotland could hardly be used at sporting events after a no outcome. Especially when you consider the line
O we can rise up now, and be the nation again.
Hardly appropriate when you have just rejected the Sovereignty of your own nation.
One line is true Oer land that is lost now.
We would be giving the opposition a free hit by over singing something like this.
O cowards of Scotland
When will we see your likes again
That gave up your nation
Your chance off salvation
To remain a province again
etc, etc
Hope we don’t have to start looking for a substitute anthem. Vote YES
If Scots want some good reasons for voting Yes?:
Norway; Switzerland; Sweden; New Zealand; Denmark; Finland; Netherlands; Luxembourg, Liechtenstein
And a seat at the United Nations as all of the above do.
Every indicator from the ‘Economist’, Mail Online (Apr 16th 2014), the UN Human Development Index, give these ‘small’ nations as the wealthiest per capita and happiest.
All have pensions and health schemes.
Andy Smith Thank you, very pleased to put a smile on your face from so far away, with interaction it makes me feel we are in the same space, a good space.
It is the nature of Scot’s to take joy in association, and the comfortable knowing feeling of being part of a collective family, that is the core psyche of a Scot and hence our social justice stance, despisers of injustice, prepared to oppose it wherever it exists.
Scotland the diaspora expects your best on our behalf.
Set us free to return to a sovereign Scotland.
Gordon brown using brave men and woman of the war for politics disgusting that bad. Now if this is the government we have now on there hands and knees it’s pathetic these r the men the no side want in charge of them scary it shouldn’t have took a referendum for them to show an interest in scotland and think m that scotland seem to be heading in a different direction from us lets giving more powers and let them try instead of being so caught up in london they could have said right we’ve been equal partners up till now so if we have grown up different maybe it’s time to help each other to see how hard it would be and what benefits each answer would have (yes/no) and then letting the people vote instead of this tit for tat. The news on tv today a few cash stories to try scare people
Terrific writing Stuart and all very well observed. As an insider-outsider you have a unique view on our frenetic “democratic revolution”. My only complaint is we ended up with less than 10 WBB when we’d hoped for 10,000 so we can’t afford to hand them out freely. A missed opportunity. Onwards & Upwards…
@Eppy
Best bit of news recently in Kirrie, is that the 16-18 year olds, who were depressingly very No leaning have, I think, by a combination of WBB and a visit by coach to the Big Debate swung, largely, around to Yes just in the last couple of weeks.
Big thanks to Stuart and Gorgeous George. Now who would ever have seen that last sentence coming?
a terrific little book – well done – I can’t understand why anyone would vote no. I have complained to the bbc about their coverage and been told it will take 2 weeks for them to respond. I hope and pray the people hold their nerve and HOPE triumphs over fear.