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Wings Over Scotland

Hindsight in reverse

Posted on March 30, 2016 by

Kezia Dugdale gave an interview to Good Morning Scotland earlier today that viewed from above would probably look rather like the runway at Baghdad Airport in 1991.


If we tried to pick out all the individual bomb craters in one post, readers’ eyes would glaze over long before the end. So we’re going to have to do it in bits.

Things got off to a wobbly start. When asked to explain how Labour would pay for their £78m “Fair Start Fund” to close the educational attainment gap, Dugdale cited her plans for a 50p top rate of tax which she said would raise “between £70m and £110m”, the fifth or sixth different figure Labour have given for the policy.

Presenter Gary Robertson challenged her on the figure, noting that she’d told Holyrood Magazine last year that the policy could raise as little as zero:

(Good Morning Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland, 30 March 2016)

Let’s just get that answer down in writing. (Our emphasis, and you’ll see why.)

“I did, in that magazine, and since that point Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs have had a crackdown on people being able to move their tax liability throughout the United Kingdom.

And this came up in the TV debate last night, actually. Nicola Sturgeon suggested that she’d never heard of it, which is surprising, really, because Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs gave evidence to this effect to the Finance Committee back in October – it was reported in the Telegraph.”

And indeed it was:


The story doesn’t actually say much. It says HMRC want to stop people “exploiting loopholes” in the system to prevent people moving their liabilities, but doesn’t say what it can actually do about it, mainly because there isn’t very much. If someone moves to England, or spends the majority of the year there, they’re liable for tax at the English rates and that’s the end of it. There’s no law against moving.

(Interestingly, Scottish income tax will still be administered by HMRC, not Revenue Scotland. So Dugdale is asking people to believe that the UK’s tax-collection agency will bust a gut to keep tax money in Scotland, rather than going to the UK Treasury.)


Nevertheless, Dugdale specifically cites this rather vague article as being responsible for a whopping £70m change at the bottom end of her 50p-rate revenue estimate.

And maybe it was. There’s only one small problem.

The Telegraph article was published on the 27th of October. Dugdale’s interview with Holyrood Magazine appeared on the 30th of October.

Dugdale told the mag that her tax plans might raise zero, then subsequently revised that estimate up by £70m specifically because of an article that she read, er, three days EARLIER. (And which said nothing significant anyway.)

They think you won’t remember, readers. But we remember for you.

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  1. 31 03 16 08:53

    Great Start | A Wilderness of Peace

135 to “Hindsight in reverse”

  1. Doug Daniel says:

    “But we remember for you.”

    Excellent, because my memory’s awful. Can you remind me to get some milk later?

  2. Malky says:

    That’s a “jings, crivvens and help ma boab!” fae me.

  3. NormCash says:

    And this is why I love reading WOS.

  4. Dorothy Devine says:

    Someone told me that she went to Uni – did she get a degree?
    Or was she like Mr Murphy – always the bridesmaid never the bride??

    If she did get a degree it sure ain’t showing in her outpourings.

    OT but did anyone read the drivellings by Mr Behr in the Guardian?

  5. Dinnatouch says:

    I’m sure it was just an oversight on her part, I don’t think anyone from the Labour Party would wilfully mislead the public in such a brazen manner.

  6. Peter Brunskill says:

    I suppose to be fair to Ms D (and she needs all the help she can get) an article published on 30th October would have been written some time before that and would have been in print before the Telegraph piece on 27th.
    Not that I agree with a word she utters, you understand.

  7. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    ” suppose to be fair to Ms D (and she needs all the help she can get) an article published on 30th October would have been written some time before that and would have been in print before the Telegraph piece on 27th.”

    That isn’t the case at all. It’s 2016. This is the internet. Stuff gets published immediately. Before posting this piece I checked the magazine editor’s timeline for any evidence that the actual interview with Dugdale took place days before publication and there was none. And it’s only now, months later, that Dugdale’s started talking about these HMRC comments.

    It is of course POSSIBLE that the interview happened sooner. But there’s no evidence, either solid or circumstantial, that it did, and you certainly can’t state it as a fact.

  8. David says:

    Hm, Kezia probably gets her info from Kevin Hague’s multicoloured graphs – they are open to very flexible interpretation.

  9. Macart says:

    Back to some facial self abuse then.


  10. MajorBloodnok says:

    Labour, doing the time warp again.

  11. heedtracker says:

    Maybe SLab are Time Lords.

  12. findlay farquaharson says:

    thank fuck, ma memory is so bad wi smokin weed i cannae remember what i jist typed,

  13. Clootie says:

    I fully accept that Kezia was not trying to mislead the Scottish public. She is incompetent,thick and reads out loud everything she is handed.

    …a defence probably unsuited to the leader of a political party (or even a branch office)

  14. NormCash says:

    As much as many would like to believe, there must actually be some people left in the Labour Party with some intelligence and common sense. Why exactly is it that so many from outwith the party can see quite clearly that Dugdale is so obviously out of her depth, but those inside can’t? Do they see it but choose to ignore it? If so why? What can possibly be gained by perpetuating the obvious exodus away from Labour?

    Their total inability to accept and come to terms with the new-found awakening of the Scottish electorate in the wake of the Referendum is (for wnat of a better word) astonishing.

    It’s truly remarkable what has become of Labour over the past 20 years.

  15. handclapping says:

    Its not called foresight for nothing you know.

    Like the foresightly JaBa or the Right Honorable foresightly A Carmichael

  16. Andrew Mclean says:

    twitter Duncan Hothersall retweets picture of Humza Yousaf in a plane with the phrase
    “Amazing – this man took a selfie with his hijacker!”
    Insidious racism is still racism Labour?
    Amazing “All Muslims are hijackers Labours new policy.”

  17. handclapping says:

    If you are intelligent and still in the (Scottish) Labour Party (I know, I know) you keep your head down otherwise its you next.

  18. Ian MacDonald says:

    As far as I can make out, the Telegraph article is in relation to people with multiple properties flipping their main residence.

    There is absolutely nothing that can be done about people that actually just leave.

  19. heedtracker says:

    SLab leader lies about Torygraph stuff, as Times boosts SLab leader, shock. “Amplifies” key Labour messages is a lovely boost from the blue tories to the red ones, who might hike top rate taxes, or might not, or maybe they will etc.

    Its great the Rupert Murdoch’s got behind SLab’s Dugdale though, figuratively speaking.

    Fair enough the Torygraph’s written and read by upper class twits but why would Rupert Murdoch the leader of the toryboy UKOK media be so keen to get Scots to vote SLab though?

    Scott Arthur Retweeted
    ScotLab Briefing ?@scotlabpress 8h8 hours ago
    The Times calls #ScotDebates for @kezdugdale: a “polished performance” that amplified key election messages.

  20. Cloggins says:

    Aw come on she cannot help it. Even Kezia cannot give what she hasn’t got.

  21. Susan says:

    Well done, I don’t know what we would have done without your excellent hard work. I read WoS most days to save my sanity! 😀

  22. Dr Jim says:

    Maybe some people were speaking French or had French accents and the Telegraph got confused

    Best to always ask a Lib Dem for the exact facts in these circumstances

  23. Robert Graham says:

    The sad part is a whole lot of your fellow countrymen will believe this dross it’s regurgitated on a hourly basis masquerading as news this constant drip drip of bleedn rubbish courtesy of your very own BBC , always looking after everyone’s interests apart from yours , because you are the enemy you must be silenced .

  24. galamcennalath says:

    Let’s face it, SLab have no firm plans, policies, agenda, objectives, etc..

    They are in completely uncharted territory. They have no hope of being in government nor having any significant influence on events. They are competing for second place with the Tories, and may lose even opposition status. This is a new situation for them.

    Their Union and ultimate rule from London, the whole framework by which they live, is falling apart.

    So, they just make up ‘stuff’ from day to day. Expect no coherence nor logic.

  25. Almannysbunnet says:

    Kezia surely knows that everything she says will be forensically examined and disseminated by WOS. With that in mind she should be advised to keep schtum until after the election.
    There would be no fun in that though so keep em coming Kez.

  26. G H Graham says:

    How much lower would income tax rates have to be in Scotland to encourage Michele Mone to come back & set up a Saturday morning stall in Dunfermline to market 2kg tubs of fake tanning ointments, Biafran diet pills & garlic scented pessaries?

    A nation awaits.

  27. Clare says:

    My personal fave was the couple of minutes of whackamole Gary R had to play with her on APD. It was hilariously clear that she hadn’t the faintest idea what he was talking about.
    “It was in the budget” said Gary.
    “there’s lots of other very worrying things in the budget” says Kez.

  28. ahundredthidiot says:

    Forgive me, but I am giving serious consideration to the conspiracy theory that Kezia is actually an SNP plant, there to bring down slab from within and will only reveal her true allegiance on independence day.

    Because she is doing a helluva job!

  29. NormCash says:

    @handclapping….Oh hell no!!! I didn’t mean to come over as a Labour supporter. I was…..many many years ago. Now I probably despise them as much as I do the Tories.

    SNP x 2 all the way!!

  30. Normcash says:

    @handclapping. ..Sorry mate. Just reread your post and understand the gist now. My bad.

  31. Remind me again weren’t Labour part of the better together campaign which told us that we would have to vote no to prevent paying higher taxes in an independent Scotland

    So maybe Kezia Dugdale should explain how then under her plans she would make people in Scotland as part of the UK are going to end paying higher taxes than in the rest of the UK

  32. TD says:

    I feel a little bit sorry for her. She is an innocent abroad – so naïve that I suspect she doesn’t even realise she makes all these gaffs. She’s trying to be a grown up politician, but until she is a bit more worldly-wise, she will just keep on setting traps for herself and then walk into them. I suspect the old cynics in Scottish Labour want her to lead the branch office through the election so that none of them have to. Then, they will take her out. And the next “leader” will have five years to try to get his/her act together. But I don’t think there will be a stampede for the job.

  33. Marie Clark says:


    Kez is probably mair tae be pitied than laughed at, but then again, well, sorry, a canny help it HAHAHAHAHA.

    Nae policies, nae agenda, nae takin Scotland forward. Nae idea’s at a’. Then they have the cheek tae ask us tae vote for them, eh the answer tae that is NAW.

    SNP X 2, they at least have the interests of our country and its people.

  34. MerkinScot says:

    That woman just brings a smile to my face with her every utterance.

  35. Robert Louis says:

    Kezia lying? Surely not.

    If ever anybody needed proof of the value of Rev Stuart Campbell, then this article is it. I can just imagine the sinking feeling experienced by Kezia, as she read it (ach, she probably does you know). And then the killer line..“They think you won’t remember, readers. But we remember for you.

    Truly marvellous.

  36. Inverclyder says:

    TD @ 4:22pm

    Sarwar. It’s Sarwar.

    He’s being lined up as the next flounder on the beach.

  37. dmw42 says:

    the Official Report of the Finance Committee of 28 October 2015 (see has HMRC official Edward Troup merely stating:

    “However, to the extent that there are significant differentials for the better off, that is where we would expect to see a change in behaviour, and we would probably be looking to ask compliance questions about that.”

    It also quotes Jackie Baillie saying “first of all, I have to say that I love colours on a chart—they make things wonderfully simple.”

  38. KathyT says:

    Anas Sarwar would jump at the chance to be branch manager.

  39. Dave Hansell says:

    With HMRC:

    – closing down local and regional offices.

    – reducing staff, using an advertising agency controlled in an offshore haven ( ).

    – having insufficient resources to catch the crooks who engage in tax evasion and avoidance ( )

    – a boss who thinks tax is legalised extortion ( )

    – and which has singularly failed to prevent and recover £2 billion of VAT fraud ( )

    The idea that Scotland is going to recover or be allocated a single penny of tax revenues via this dysfunctional organisation, never mind £70 million pounds, is a delusional fantasy on a par with a belief in faries at the bottom of the garden.

  40. Bob Mack says:

    In another situation you could see Ms Dugdale as being a figure of amusement,but the thing is that she is not making these announcements in isolation. Other members of Labour are saying the same.

    It means in effect they have planned,contrived,and come up with a concensus about how to mislead the public as a Party. It is dishonest, deceitful and very disingenuous.

    Policy built on lies is very quickly discredited by the Rev, and only alienates even further any potential remaining voters.

  41. Marie Clark says:

    Sarwar, he’d be even worse than Murphy was. Bring it on as some wee wumman said.

  42. heedtracker says:

    Not much from ultra yoon pin up toryboy Kevrage on this. WoS gets a mention from the toryboys in their Scotland region. Too busy making excel graphics on how shite Scotland is, in this farce union, nae doot.

    Kevin Hague Retweeted
    Fraser Whyte ?@FraserWhyte81 18h18 hours ago
    Fraser Whyte Retweeted Stephen McCabe
    If this happened on BBC with any other party there’d be a Wings article, 312 memes and a protest march by now Fraser Whyte added,

    Stephen McCabe @CllrSMcCabe
    @theSNP member told to stay away from @StuMcMillanSNP campaign so they put her in the audience for #ScotDebates
    30 retweets 25 likes
    Reply Retweet 30
    Like 25

  43. handclapping says:

    @Kathy T
    Only so he could be on BBC Scotland every second day; … probably complaining of BBC bias that he wasn’t on every day

  44. Marcia says:

    Labour’s manifesto to be written in pencil and be changed the next day if the public don’t like it.

  45. Meanwhile over on the courier Kezia Dugdale says Labour’s tax plans would raise £600million.

  46. TD says:

    Inverclyder at 4:26 p.m.

    If you are right, then there’s nothing for us to worry about. Sarwar is as incompetent as Kez.

  47. Kenny says:

    Tae be honest, I feel a wee bit sorry for Dugdale. She is hopelessly out of her depth and it is cruel to put her up against Nicola at FMQ. It would be better to have a video link with Corbyn… or maybe Jackie Bird?!

    Dugdale is the umpteenth branch manager and is like a naive if stupid kid who has got into a bad crowd. It is almost like a bad children’s story, the silly little kid doing the dirty work for a completely invented party dreamt up by a foreign country (“Scottish Labour”, the party of the workmen and women who are really the Red Tories).

    [Interesting, did WM attempt anything similar in British India?]

    I find Ruthie far more appalling because she has twice now thwarted the democratic process (Indyref1, GE15 in Fluffy’s constituency) and should be investigated, in my opinion, by the polis for this attack on the country’s “constitution”.

    But back to the hapless one and her Red Tory friends… I would love to see a leadership context post-May between Anas Sarwar and James Kelly. Especially if the BBC rams it down everyone’s throats at every opportunity until the whole country is begging for mercy…!

  48. Jack Murphy says:

    KathyT said at 4:28 pm:-
    “Anas Sarwar would jump at the chance to be branch manager.”

    Probably—-he’s been put at the top of Labour’s Glasgow List—–and that means he’s almost certain to get into the Scottish Parliament despite being voted OUT by the electorate at the General Election!!

    Welcome to our Pretendy Wee Parly–by the grace of Westminster. 🙁

  49. cearc says:

    Dave Hansell,

    I have a nasty feeling that our tax income will fall substantially due to the inefficiencies and manipulations of HMRC.

    Hard to imagine them busting a gut to ensure that we get our dues.

  50. gerry says:

    “And where did you find the £78 million Kezia ?”

    “Eh, I read it in the paper and SNP bad.”

    Sturgeon must be fair shitting hersel’ faced with Dugdalian economics.

  51. Dave Hansell says:


    Well spotted that man.

  52. Onwards says:

    Wealthy people don’t have to move to England to avoid a higher rate of income tax. Company owners including many self-employed can pay themselves in shares or dividends or take a lower salary until the tax rate is repealed.

    I think the SNP have got the balance right on tax.

    The disabled issue has really thrown a spanner in the Tories works, together with the student fees and prescription charges.

    And God knows what Dugdale was thinking taxing low earners more.

    And the Greens also. 60p is just ridiculous and would lead to widespread avoidance as seen in France. And it’s far easier to avoid tax in our situation. Patrick Harvie knows this himself, so it seems like a cynical attempt to grab votes from the idealistic, knowing they never have to actually balance a budget.

  53. heedtracker says:

    Hard core gorgeous pouting toryboy Kevrage RT’s this from another hard core gorgeous pouting toryboy,

    Or, foresight in advance

    I for one am looking forward to the whole UKOK BBC led Times/Torygraph freak show, all now piling in behind centre right Sturgeon, and no longer UKOK boosting whatever it is the red tories are going to promise tomorrow.

    Is red and blue toryboy world in their Scotland really this desperate now?


  54. bobajock says:

    Can you now see why those tax jobs were moved from C’nauld etc? Croydon got them and amazingly – will examine the returns diligently to make sure Scotland gets SFA.

    Thanks for voting No Tax Office workers. You total imbeciles.

  55. Legerwood says:

    Let me see if I have this correct: The Daily Telegraph, house journal of the Tory party, is now the paper of record and primary source underpinning Labour Party policy in Scotland.

    Well, well.

  56. Fran says:

    There is absolutely no chance of HMRC chasing down and recovering any tax owed to SRIT. They will be crossing their fingers and praying for residence flippers going to England, more revenue for WM and less for Holyrood.

    I fear there maybe more tax dodging going to happen in Scotland and we will rely on those who want us to fail to collect. Ha, who’s kidding who here Slab?

    On the flip side, the more we can show up the incompetence and shear contempt of Scotland from WM and their government agencies the better.

  57. Angra Mainyu says:

    There are obviously two schools of thought when it comes to economics and politics. Rev. Stuart clearly believes in silly things like the truth, 2 + 2 should make 4, etc. That’s one way of approaching political economy.

    On another level, with people like Kezia, everything boils down to how high you can raise your eyebrows and feign sincerity. Willie Rennie subscribes to this viewpoint too. Raise your eyebrows and try and look well-meaning, sincere, and pious — as if by magic, 2 + 2 can now make anything you want.

    I am actually surprised that nobody has mentioned the way Kezia and Willie did everything they could to help each other in the cross-examinations in last night’s debate. There was clearly collusion involved.

    Of course, I’m sure if you ask them about that they will raise their eyebrows and pretend the suggestion is an affront, that they’re completely innocent, etc. On a certain level, they are basically door to door sales goons trying to con pensioners and people with learning difficulties.

    footnote: studies of capuchin and other types of monkey behaviour, in line with what I point out here, support the understanding that raising eyebrows communicates friendliness and submissiveness.

  58. gerry parker says:

    Inverclyder @ 4:26

    It may be Sarwar, but I hope he doesn’t even manage the title “leader of the opposition”

    That would be sweet.


  59. Returnofthemac says:

    Just heard, I believe kezia’s now scrapped the rebate that they were promising to those on low incomes. Kezia, Kezia, Kezia when will it all end? Oh I know May 6th. Anal (typo) waiting in the WINGS.


  60. geeo says:

    Did i just hear that on the STV news preview that labour have dropped the “rebate” ?

  61. CmonIndy says:

    Please can we have Alex Rowley or James Kelly to replace Kezia? Surely Anal Sarwar can’t be worse?

  62. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Ian MacDonald says:
    30 March, 2016 at 3:44 pm

    “As far as I can make out, the Telegraph article is in relation to people with multiple properties flipping their main residence.

    There is absolutely nothing that can be done about people that actually just leave.”

    MPs excluded, re house flipping?

    By the way, I don’t post so much here any more because that might discourage newer Wingers from posting, if they thought it was a wee club.

    I use Twitter, as it suits my style of shouting through the letter box and running away.

    I come because of the, now ritual, analytical eviscerations of the Yooner politicos.

    Great fun

    Carry on

  63. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ gerry parker says:
    30 March, 2016 at 5:40 pm
    Inverclyder @ 4:26

    The leader of the Lost Tribe?

  64. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    NormCash says:
    30 March, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    As much as many would like to believe, there must actually be some people left in the Labour Party with some intelligence and common sense.

    It’s truly remarkable what has become of Labour over the past 20 years.”

    Why haven’t they left?

    3 reasons,

    a) Tribal loyalty

    b) On the make, short term.

    c) Frightened that their whole political self has been a deceit

  65. gerry parker says:

    @ Bugger.
    4. That would involve making a decision, and Labour don’t do decisions.


  66. NiallD says:

    O/T on Radio North Britain Kez,Ruthie et al are now being referred to as the ” anti-independence leaders”

    Lots of ranting about Nicola saying it was a once in a generation referendum. I have no recollection of Nicola saying that. Anybody got a link?

  67. Greannach says:

    It’s got to the stage where I feel sorry for Kezia Dugdale. She seems genuinely unaware of her inadequacy, and it’s cringe-making to see her making such a fool of herself in public with that earnest Head Prefect voice. Dear, oh dear.

  68. Big Gav says:

    @Doug Daniel

    Remember to get some milk.

  69. Donald Anderson says:

    She did not evened to change her mind over the latest rebate gaffe. She won’t be getting elected anyway.

  70. Don’t underestimate Kez; she has her eyes firmly set on the House of Lords. She knows that if Lady Moan can make it, anybody can.
    This was the reason for Lady Moan…to send out a signal to all Scottish ("Tractor" - Ed)s that all will be welcomed by Mother England.
    Support England and Prosper!

  71. Ruby says:

    28th October 2015 Holyrood’s finance committee

    Pre-Budget scrutiny of Scottish Rate of Income Tax:
    Starts at 1:16:08

    I always like to compare and contrast what is said in these committees and what is written in the MSM.

    As yet I haven’t had time to watch the video all the way through.

    I’m always surprised that politicians rely on the media for information.

  72. Lenny Hartley says:

    BTP glad to hear your still about. Ain’t seen anything from .john King for a while either?
    He wasn’t even wearing your sweatshirt at the Wos doo on Saturday.

  73. Martin Cunningham says:

    If HMRC is processing SRIT, how can I be sure that they are allocating my tax correctly? How many Scots work for small companies with HQ and HR/payroll in England?

  74. North chiel says:

    Contrast STV news this evening ” leading” with “Kezia tax rebate shambles”
    with ” cosy chat ” on misreporting Scotlab, between ” labour luvvies” Jackie& Glen,
    with Glen ” explaining” to Jackie the ” finer points” of Scotlab ” tax policy”

  75. Gerry says:

    @ Bugger – 3

    They are so heavily time invested in their political standpoint, that to admit error would be to admit the fact that their party has betrayed the ideals on which it was founded.
    In that sense they have my sincere sympathy. I believe that SNP x 2 may just stretch that blind loyalty too far. If Kezia has to go after the election, that’ll be it. And she just might.
    Tories – too busy plotting and fighting against each other to care.
    Labour – It’s not even u-turns any more. They’re doing doughnuts.

    The “establishment” looks even less like the “safe bet” that it was presented as just a couple of years ago. There also seems to be a growing resentment for how easily and quickly the obvious project fear tactics are being pointed out this time round compared to our referendum.

    The penny may drop with some of the labour sheep yet.

  76. CameronB Brodie says:

    I told you the Yoons were using the energy released by ‘Scotland’s fiscal black hole’, to power their very own “policy time machine”. How ingenious! 🙂

    Tic toc.

  77. HandandShrimp says:

    Kezia defence is simple

    “Look I have zero chance of winning so none of this is going to be implemented so there is no point in questioning it”.

  78. Dr Jim says:

    There’ll be no next leader of the Scottish Branch office of Labour

    They’ll just be called…..Next

  79. dakk says:

    ‘It may be Sarwar’

    I’ve never been one for namecalling 🙂 ,but if that ‘Dirty Anas’ ever got to be First Minister of Scotland, then even I would have to forsake my country as a lost cause.

    Bring him on I say !

  80. Chitterinlicht says:

    What is it with Unionists and dates?

    If its lapse of memory that is just about acceptable, just.

    If it was premeditated its a very sad state of affairs, lying to potential voters. Its not as if they are the LibDems?

    Thank fuck for Wings.

  81. turnip_ghost says:

    I am desperate to watch the debates but I’m in Honduras at the moment so STV player won’t let me…I just have to imagine how much of a car crash it was…And presume it was even worse than that

  82. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi turnip_ghost.

    What you need is a “VPN” (Virtual Private Network), that allows you to present yourself to the web, as if you were in the UK.

    I can’t really recommend a product but if you Google “VPN”, you may find something (free or paid for) of use.

  83. heedtracker says:

    Just got this deja vu email asking for donations. Looks just like Project Fear Blair McDougal style too. Should be interesting to see if the UK civil service are taking as much an active role as they did attack Scottish independence. No idea how they got my email addresses.

    I’m worried.

    Throughout this campaign, we’ve been clear about the benefits of being in the EU: more jobs, lower prices, workers’ rights protected, and more resources for public services like the NHS.

    But with just 12 weeks until the referendum, UKIP and the Leave Campaigns still won’t give us a straight answer about what Britain’s future would be if we left Europe.

    By contrast, a series of new reports from top economists couldn’t be clearer – Brexit would hit UK jobs and UK families:

    950,000 UK jobs lost by 2020, and our economy £100 billion worse off (Confederation of British Industry)

    The average UK household between £850 and £1,700 a year worse off in the long term (London School of Economics)

    The NHS’s finances hit – with public spending cut by up to £40 billion by 2030, hitting investment in public services (Oxford Economics)

    Mortgage bills soaring – “prolonged uncertainty” meaning mortgage bills rising for millions of families (The Bank of England)

  84. alexicon says:

    Onavo protect is a good free VPN turnip_ghost.

  85. Balaaargh says:

    Whoa there, cowboy!

    “The Telegraph article was published on the 27th of October.

    Dugdale’s interview with Holyrood Magazine appeared on the 30th of October.”

    Does the Holyrood magazine say when she was interviewed? It could easily have been BEFORE the torygraph article. More importantly, was it AFTER the Finance Committee hearing that Dugdale apparently knows all about it?

  86. Balaaargh says:


    You might be quicker doing a search for a UK-based proxy as opposed to setting up a VPN.

    If you’re wanting a VPN, do a search for “that one privacy guy” and pick one off his list that suits your needs.

  87. Cuilean says:

    The tax powers which come into force on 1 April 2016 (LBBT & Landfill Tax) and 5 April 2016 (Income Tax level changes must be same across all income rate bands) are from the Scotland Act 2012. The date of that Act clearly confirms that the said tax powers predate the Independence Referendum of 2014. The 2012 Act flows from the Calman Commission which was set up in 2007 by all Scotland’s unionist parties at Holyrood. It’s taken 9 years for these ‘new powers’ to become law.

    How long will it take for the new ‘powers’ which flow from the Referendum to become law? The second tranche of ‘powers’ are contained in the Scotland Act 2016, currently being watered down (again) in the unelected Lords.

    The 2012 Act ONLY allows any Scots Govt to alter all tax bands in unison.

    The ability to increase high earners taxes and decrease low earners taxes at the same time will only come to pass when the 2016 Act becomes law, which going by the first Act, won’t be for another 4 years at least, if ever.

  88. Effijy says:

    Why do they call Kez, Dipity Dug?

    Why do they call Labour Labour?

    Why do both of they think all Scots are Stupid?

    Dipity was a complete embarrassing waste of space on EBC Radio this morning. You wouldn’t make her Deputy Brown Owl

  89. ronnie anderson says:

    Rev Rev Scottish Labour hiv bought the biggest whore of ah Defibrillator ave ever seen.

    And now the news from aw er Britania,there will be severe power shortages in May.

  90. Onwards says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    30 March, 2016 at 7:01 pm
    Kezia defence is simple.
    “Look I have zero chance of winning so none of this is going to be implemented so there is no point in questioning it”.


    Yeah. I think they have already written this election off, so the main purpose is to try and lose the ‘red Tories’ label going forwards.

    I don’t think it is going to work. The SNP may be sensible on the income side of the equation, merely rejecting a tax break for the wealthiest instead of raising tax rates here, but they are still seen as progressive on the spending side:
    Reforming the council tax, Land and Buildings tax, Free education, free medicine, £750m attainment fund, expanded Maternity and Early Years Allowance, expanded childcare, school meals, personal care, affordable housing, job grants, anti-Trident, saving Prestwick and the Steel industry etc

    Plus Labour has a bigger problem. Whilst we are still part of the UK, a real Scottish party is more trusted to stand up for Scottish interests. We all saw that during the Scotland Bill negotiations where Ruth Davidson couldn’t speak against her London bosses when they tried to impose a £7 billion detrimental charge.

    And the referendum legacy will continue to hurt them.
    Labour didn’t have faith in the Scottish people to run their own country better. It’s the SNP that are seen as on Scotland’s side.

  91. Effijy says:

    1 days remaining!
    Total at 9am today: £76,925 (Last 24 hours)

    I’ll be topping up for the 3rd time tomorrow.

    I had been hoping for a minimum of £80K, double the very modest sum the Rev put forward.

    Such a wonderful resource must require a minimum of £1K per/week to maintain itself (£52K p.a.)and you all must see
    the Rev takes £28K for his own personal needs.

    Can we all find an extra £10.00 to keep Wings & our Sanity?

  92. Orri says:

    The way it works is you get a tax code with the letter S at the start. Something like S1100L. I think there was meant to be a mailshot in February informing us. I know at least one of us got one but can’t remember if we both did. Your wage slip at the end of April might contain it.

    Hopefully all our MPs have ensured that they will be paying their 10%.

    At the moment there’s nothing to be gained by lying in order to not pay towards Holyrood and through them local councils and other services in Scotland other than fucking over your fellow Scots in some malicious attempt at undermining our -devolved parliament.

  93. arthur thomson says:

    I genuinely think Kezia should do herself a big favour and resign – fast.

    Then she could go off somewhere and start a new life with a new way of earning a living. She is out of her depth and being used by those around her. They will take no responsibility for the shambles that is Slab but will instead put the blame on her.

    They have shown time and again that they have no moral code.

  94. Davy says:

    So another labour promise (rebate) has bit the dust, no surprise there.

    But something has been bugging me about the prescription charges that the tories want to re-introduce, did not a certain scottish labour Leader “Johann Lamont” just two or three years back want to do exactly the same as the tories with the prescription charges, in her never to be forgotten “Something for Nothing Speech”.

    I am sure Labour want to reintroduce prescription charges in exactly the same manner as the Tories. And I can’t remember it being rescinded.

  95. Dr Jim says:

    Kezia to stand down following the election no matter how it goes
    Word from Labourites is she’s under pressure internally

    That’ll mean stabbed in the back then

    I’ll miss her dulcet tones “Nyooze the pouwers, Nyooze the pouwers”

  96. Davy says:

    I forgot to mention I have put this on hothersal’s “labour hame site”, but as he is currently blocking any comments from me I doubt it will see the light of day.

    So much for the site the encourages “OPEN DEBATE”, totally gutless.

  97. Lenny Hartley says:

    turnip ghost re vpn proxy, plenty which give you a free trial for 30 days, before you sign up for one ensure they support the service you want, whilst most will support bbc iplayer perhaps stv player will not be as well supported. Also you can’t use a tablet as they have location services and the provider can tell your watching from outside UK. (That’s with ipad presume Androids are the same.)

  98. Robert Louis says:

    So, here we go again with Labour in the run up to an election, first one policy then another, day by day. It is laughable, and also quite sad. Remember last time around they wanted to unfreeze council tax, then they wanted to freeze it, because that was the SNP policy.

    It is almost as if they make up these daft policies on the back of the proverbial fag packet. Nobody really knows what their policy is on trident, since the official policy is at odds with the leader (the real one) of Labour, and some of Labour in Scotland. Likewise, we don’t really know what they might do on tuition fees, since of course it was the Labour party who introduced them in the first place – something which they often seem to be in denial about.

    It just goes on, and on, as they dance their merry dance, making and breaking policies on a daily basis, in the vain hope of attracting votes from one electoral demographic after another.

    Seriously, Labour, sort yourself out, FFS.

  99. Iain More says:

    Off topic sort of in part

    I didn’t watch last nights debate but as part of my onerous time as a 24/7 carer I have to occasionally sit through the outpourings of Britannia TV Aberdeen.

    Despite the Brit Nat bias it was still obvious to anybody half awake that last night and today have been unmitigated disasters for the STory and SLAB Election campaigns. I almost wish I had watched it now.

    There is also an obvious get Sturgeon narrative at Britannia TV Aberdeen.

    Now totally off topic and that is Britannia TVs shocking Scotland Bad analysis of last nights footie. Yes Birdicuts tackle was unsavoury but the Danes weren’t exactly holding back either. For a so called friendly the edge it had was refreshing. Britannia TV Aberdeen though couldn’t help put a one sided spin of Scotland dirty on their analysis.

    What bloody chance do we have of winning a second Indy Ref when they cant even resist a dig of Scotland is Bad over a friendly footie match in the so called Scottish Media.

  100. heedtracker says:

    What bloody chance do we have of winning a second Indy Ref when they cant even resist a dig of Scotland is Bad over a friendly footie match in the so called Scottish Media

    If polls hold in May, they probably wont be working in their Scotland region by 2020. There’s so much at stake for May.

  101. ronnie anderson says:

    Vote Labour get ah free tank of Helium,weil inflated policies ur best policy , up up & away wie the yoon balloons lol.

  102. scotspine says:

    Payday the morn’. I will be chucking some more in the wings fund. Be nice if we could all manage a final push

  103. Inverclyder says:

    As we near the end of Kezia Dugdale as Branch Office Janitor we can all sleep better at night knowing they are now at the bottom of the barrel of Red Tory Puppet Monkeys to become the next leader.

    Only one or two left before they start a tribute act.

  104. K1 says:

    Polling percentage type question?

    How many Labour voters would have to vote Tory in the Holyrood elections for the Tories to beat Labour to become the ‘official’ opposition at Holyrood?

    Just so we all know whit socialists in Scotland suddenly found their inner Tory Unionist at this critical junction in Scotland’s history.

  105. Alba Laddie says:

    I live in Edinburgh East, where Dugdale is standing for election/widespread rejection (hopefully). The shop she is renting as her office used to be a fancy dress and joke shop.
    I don’t think Scottish Labour do irony, somehow.

  106. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s some Wednesday night magic from Daniel Chesterfield.

  107. Arbroath1320 says:

    What can I say?

    In the space of 56 DAYS we have gone from £100 tax rebate to low paid paying wee Kezia’s 1p tax rise to NO £100 tax rebate.

    Speedy or what? 😀

    As we have all said so many times before about Labour and their *cough* policies “you couldn’t make this shite up!”

    In fairness we could all make it up:

    1) cause our plans would last LONGER than 56 days

    2) unfortunately our plans would NOT be so funny.

    I just LOVE this bit. 😉

    A spokesman added: “We always said this was for 2016/17 only.”

    Ye gawd’s we haven’t even reached the end of the THIRD month, with another NINE to go, of 2016 and Labour have scrapped what was, I assume, their trademark tax policy! 😀

  108. sinky says:

    Ian Murray has his “help me Rona” moment as he accuses STV of confusing the electorate over Labour’s U Turn on their unworkable tax rebate.

  109. Effijy says:

    Ian Murray on STV suggests the promised Labour Rebate
    for the low paid being withdrawn is not a change in policy?

    He also advised that not getting the £100 makes the low paid better off??

    When accused on making their policies confusing for the Public, he places the blame on the media for any confusion???????

    In summary, Labour are so intellectual that ordinary humans are just incapable of understanding their policies,
    but just vote for them anyway, just like the good old days.

  110. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Sorry about the Daniel Chesterfield intrusion there…he was meant to go to O/T…bloody magicians, eh?

  111. Croompenstein says:

    @Arbroath1320 – so there will be no £100 rebate I suppose they will now use the rebate for education along with the APD money I can just hear Kez saying ‘up here for thinking doon there for dancing’ 🙂

  112. Dr Jim says:

    Scotland tonight

    Davie Clegg unable to contain himself screeches SNP Baad and accuses the FM of hypocrisy

    I thought he was going to cry for a minute

  113. Arbroath1320 says:

    Oh I had forgot about that Croomps.

    Yes … I do believe you may be right in that assumption. 😀

  114. sinky says:

    BBC Scotland16 review of Scottish news tonight ignores Labour’s tax rebate shambles. North British party can always rely on good old auntie

  115. Legerwood says:

    Arbroath1320 says:
    30 March, 2016 at 10:41 pm

    “”I just LOVE this bit. ?

    A spokesman added: “We always said this was for 2016/17 only.”

    Ye gawd’s we haven’t even reached the end of the THIRD month, with another NINE to go, of 2016 and Labour have scrapped what was, I assume, their trademark tax policy! ?””

    Interesting that they confirmed that their policy was for 2016/17 only.

    As I understand it under the memorandum of understanding between the SG and HMRC referring to the tax varying powers in the Scotland Act 2012, which is the relevant Act for Labour’s proposals, any change to the tax rates have to be notified in advance – at least several months in advance – and would not be brought into effect until the next tax year which for Labour’s proposal would be 2017/18.

    We have already had our tax code notifications for this year 2016/17. The election is in May. If by some remote chance Labour won the election they would not be able to bring in their 1p tax change until the next financial year. They might be able to bring it in earlier but it would cost – a lot.

    Maybe someone is more up on the tax arrangements than I am and can correct me if I am wrong. But if I am correct then Labour’s, and the LibDems, 1p tax hike is, and always has been, a non-starter.

  116. Arbroath1320 says:

    Apparently Ian Murray etc are claiming this 56 day U-Turn was only intended to be for 2016/2017. REALLY? 🙂

    Funny this NOT what it says on Scottish Labour website. In fact it says what I understand to be the complete opposite.

    We would establish, with local authorities, a £100 annual payment to the boost the income of low paid taxpayers.

    I admit being the village idiot can cause problems but surely it can not only be me who reads a £100 annual payment as indicating the £100 tax rebate would be paid EVERY YEAR! 😉

  117. Returnofthemac says:

    Ian Murray. Well, well, well. What, nobody from holyrood? All unavailable? Where’s Jabba when you need her? Kezia still recovering from last night. Let’s wheel out Cleggy, he’s always good for an SNP bad shout. He actually looked gobsmacked. Richard Walker was his usual calm self.
    I take it we all knew the rebate was a one year policy. Ha Ha ha.
    Slab, its the party that just keeps on giving.

    SNP x 2

  118. Ruby says:

    Balaaargh says:
    30 March, 2016 at 8:15 pm

    Whoa there, cowboy!

    “The Telegraph article was published on the 27th of October.

    Dugdale’s interview with Holyrood Magazine appeared on the 30th of October.”

    Does the Holyrood magazine say when she was interviewed? It could easily have been BEFORE the torygraph article. More importantly, was it AFTER the Finance Committee hearing that Dugdale apparently knows all about it?

    Ruby replies

    If she was interviewed before she read the Telegraph article she could easily have phoned up the Holyrood Magazine and made a correction.

    I listened to the Holyrood’s finance committee meeting which was pretty tedious but I couldn’t find where Simon Johnson got his info from. Did anyone else watch it?

    It is worrying that politicians ie Kezia get there info from the media because as has been pointed out on a daily basis here on Wings the media is not a reliable source of information.

  119. Ian Sanderson says:

    “.. But we remember for you…”

    Thank you …..

    You’re certainly not a “small mercy..”

  120. Valerie says:

    @Inverclyder 10.29

    If there is any smidge of justice to be had for long suffering Scotland, this purgatory will end soon.

    Decades of ripping off her electorate, the Red Tories troll, and hang around like a Fabreze resistant, rank stench.

    I’m SO over even looking at them. I want us to move forward, before its too late.

  121. Arbroath1320 says:

    So just in case anyone has forgotten what all this ram a dam a ding gong about wee Kezia’s £100 tax rebate is about please allow me to enlighten you from the debate ONE WEEK ago. 😀

  122. K1 says:

    Aye LA and no mention of it only being for ‘one year’ either. They are a total disaster.

  123. Arbroath1320 says:

    K1 says:
    30 March, 2016 at 11:57 pm

    Aye LA and no mention of it only being for ‘one year’ either. They are a total disaster.

    I don’t think I say it was that bad K1. I think I’d say it was 100 times WORSE! 😀

  124. Murray McCallum says:

    Technically, isn’t Scottish Labour’s latest tax policy more of a ‘Sheriff of Nottingham’one than that Robin Hood bloke?

  125. Chic McGregor says:

    Anas Sarwar? next SLABrifice? Tax the rich?

    His dad just recently defected to the Tehreek-e-Insaf party in Pakistan one of which’s main aims is the abolition of personal income tax.

  126. Chic McGregor says:

    TBF under Imran Khan the PTI is generally a reforming/Westernising party in general, but they do list personal tax abolition as one of their aims.

  127. osakisushi says:

    I suspect Labour in Scotland are really finished.

    My mother in law (who I kept at arms length) is a typical component of the Labour weighed ballot paper brigade. I softened when she claimed she voted Yes but am now gobsmacked at the utter hatred she expresses for Labour, the party she spent 60 years voting for.
    She is not a computer chatroom person, just watches telly – a lot – and doesn’t read papers. And due to her ‘my family always vote Labour’ attitude, I never discuss politics with the woman.

    Starting to like her!

    It seems Kezia etc are doing the job unaided and converting YES voting Labour folk into intelligent human beings. Her attitude is basically, if the politician is not working for Scotland, it must be working against the country for London.

    Wish my own mother was still alive – she voted SCUM all her life and would have made a good barometer for that side of being wrong. I would like to think she would have voted YES but suspect Project Fear would have stilled her pencil.

  128. Socrates MacSporran says:

    My late father was a proud member of the old “Orange” Scottish Unionist Party (although neither an Orangeman or a Mason).

    He then continued to vote Tory, indeed, he was proud to be “The Only Tory” in our little mining village.

    In the last election in which he voted before his death, a local council one, he voted for the Labour Party candidate – because, as he said: “Jimmy’s the only one of the bunch standing who is worth a damn”.

    I met said Jimmy last week – he is now an old man, and I asked him about SLAB’s Holyrood division.

    He said: “Bunch of chancers, who would never have got into the Party in my day, far less close to being a candidate”.

    This guy gave a lifetime to the People’s Party; he was a highly-effective councillor for years. When the likes of him is giving up on them, SLAB has huge problems.

  129. gus1940 says:

    I was impressed by the decision by STV to include a section whereby the party leaders were interrogated one at a time by the others.

    This led me to ask the following question:-

    At Holyrood every thursday at Noon The FM is subjected to FMQs both by the leaders of the other parties and by the rest of the MSPs.

    I have always thought that it was unfair at both Holyrood and WM only the leader of the governing party is subjected to this form of interrogation.

    Would it not be a service to democracy if the Holyrood Opposition Party Leaders were subjected to a similar form of questioning not necessarily every week but say once a month?

  130. Kenneth Shaw says:

    Rev could you confirm that cars are being requested by SLAB not to attend interviews until after the election ?

  131. Jack Murphy says:

    NiallD said last night at 6:11 pm:-
    “………………Lots of ranting about Nicola saying it was a once in a generation referendum. I have no recollection of Nicola saying that. Anybody got a link?”

    I can’t find anything about Nicola saying that,but Alex Salmond said on the BBC Marr Show on or about the 14th September 2014:-” In my opinion,and it’s just my opinion”.

    No promises of once in a generation etc.
    None at all.

  132. Sharny Dubs says:

    I suspect that The Dug got the branch office job because those who are smart enough in the party gave it a body swerve knowing it to be career death knell that it is.

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